Does anyone know how the Denon 3930 compares versus the Toshiba HD-AX2 in upconverting?

Also can't find the Denon 3930 in stock anywhere. Is there a shortage because it's in demand?

Thank for input

Funny you should ask I was at a local Ultimate Electronics and I tested the Denon versus a Sony NSV 90 and to my shock the Sony was the better of the two. We used the same Panasonic Plamsa, same monster HDMI cable and the same ICE AGE DVD (on the same 3 scenes). The sales guy was pushing the Denon and only did the comparison b/c I insisted. The sony produces less jagged images with less noise overall. The Denon's color was a little more defined, but not by much. I ended up buying the Sony and am glad I did since it allows for all sorts of audio control. As for the Toshiba Xa2, everything I've read and the one unit I;'ve seen confirm that it's the best upscaling player out there by a long shot. If upconverting is your primary concern try a NS90v (do an instore like I didi if you can) it's $150-200 and a steal. If you want a next gen format, the Xa2 is it.

IMO, most people would recommend both the 3930 and the AX2 over the Sony for PQ. Not that I don't trust the eyes of the other poster, but unless the display is calibrated separately for each player, an A/B comparison is not valid. The 3930 is one of the best SD DVD players out there, and also gives you both SACD and DVD-A. The advantage of the AX2, for less money, is that it upconverts very well and also plays HD-DVDs. I would therefore recommend the AX2. I bought the A2 myself for HD-DVDs, and have the 3910 for SD DVDs and SACD/DVD-A.

Funny you should ask I was at a local Ultimate Electronics and I tested the Denon versus a Sony NSV 90 and to my shock the Sony was the better of the two. We used the same Panasonic Plamsa, same monster HDMI cable and the same ICE AGE DVD (on the same 3 scenes). The sales guy was pushing the Denon and only did the comparison b/c I insisted. The sony produces less jagged images with less noise overall. The Denon's color was a little more defined, but not by much. I ended up buying the Sony and am glad I did since it allows for all sorts of audio control. As for the Toshiba Xa2, everything I've read and the one unit I;'ve seen confirm that it's the best upscaling player out there by a long shot. If upconverting is your primary concern try a NS90v (do an instore like I didi if you can) it's $150-200 and a steal. If you want a next gen format, the Xa2 is it.

The Denon 3930 should not have shown any jagged lines what so ever. It features one of the best video processors around (Silicon Optix Realta). Very pricy unit however ($1,500.) And extremely short supply.

Check "Audioholics" and "Secrets" on-line reviews for more info about this player.

XA2 is a fine SD up-scaler - but I'm very disappointed w/ it's layer change. The Denon is perfect in this regard (I know you probably get tired of hearing me say that :D )

I wouldn't buy the XA2 because it's not going to be the last HD-DVD player you are going to buy. If you realize that, no sweat. There still seems to be nagging problems for some with it, even after the lastest firmware. With a 2930 or 3930, or one of the new(er) audio processors with similar video processing built in (or just a video processor), you are done with SD DVD processing purchases.

larry

Larry,
I agree with you 100%. I'm done with SD DVD player purchases after my 3910, and the A2 is just a temp until a high end universal is available (for $400, it was easy for me to justify getting into true high def sooner than later; for 2-3 times that, such as the AX2 or BD, it's not as easy, IMO, to justify). At least with the AX2, you're also getting a top upscaling player (I would have been more tempted to go that route if I didn't already have the 3910).

I wouldn't buy the XA2 because it's not going to be the last HD-DVD player you are going to buy. If you realize that, no sweat. There still seems to be nagging problems for some with it, even after the lastest firmware. With a 2930 or 3930, or one of the new(er) audio processors with similar video processing built in (or just a video processor), you are done with SD DVD processing purchases.

larry

I agree...when you have a nice standalone player like the 2930 you don't have to worry about how well your HD unit plays SD DVD - or about losing that SD DVD performance if you swap it out for another HD player. I was going to sell my 2930, but will just pair it with my PS3. For those of us who care about content, we're not going to be able to escape SD DVD for a long time.

I don't know that it is true people aren't likely buying another DVD player nor do I know it is likely they are going to be buying a second HD DVD or Blu-ray player. I see no reason to believe either format will ever amount to more than a fraction of DVD sales, hardware and software. I have the first generation Blu-ray and HD DVD players and unless I see one or both pick it up in regards to releases, movies and music, DVD/SACD/DVD-A players will continue to be the workhorse in my home theater along with my HD DVR and D-VHS VCR. I won't ever buy another DVD player because I have a fleet of them to play my library of DVD-V/SACD/DVD-A. A universal player with HD DVD/Blu-ray/DVD-V/DVD-A/SACD playback will of course be tempting, but for the HD releases I see now, replacing my first generation players isn't a priority. Both formats started off with pretty good players, although firmware updates were needed to get them working acceptably. Second generation and beyond will be better and offer additional features, but without software of interest, it doesn't mean much to me. The Denon DVD-3930 does sound like a great player as does the Toshiba HD-AX2, I am confident the few bugs in the HD-AX2 can be improved upon or eliminated, although I sure couldn't fault anybody for waiting to buy one until that happens. For me, I find no issues requiring replacement with the Samsung BD-P1000 or Toshiba HD-A1. The 70,000 or so DVD-V titles and very good quality with most, makes that format still my favorite.

If the OP doesn't have DVD-A/SACD, I recommend the HD-AX2 over the DVD-3930 with nearly equal DVD performance and of course best yet HD DVD performance.

Chris

If music isn't involved then it's more of a toss up. The only concern for me would be getting the XA2 and running into one of its issues that may not get fixed until the next gen player.

larry

The Denon hardware being used for the 2930CI and 3930CI is FAR superior than which is being used in Toshiba HD DVD players. It's much more reliable, stable, and consistent in performance. Just another thing to consider. The Denon players will last years...I'm not sure about the Toshibas. Time will tell.

The Denon hardware being used for the 2930CI and 3930CI is FAR superior than which is being used in Toshiba HD DVD players. It's much more reliable, stable, and consistent in performance. Just another thing to consider. The Denon players will last years...I'm not sure about the Toshibas. Time will tell.

Toshiba reliability hasn't been very good in my experience, but one thing is for certain, years from now, the Denon's won't be able to play HD DVD, the HD-XA2 might. If you know you don't want HD DVD, sure the Denon players are proven performers. If you think you want HD DVD and don't want SACD/DVD-A, a chance with the HD-XA2 should be worth it.

Chris

I guess a major consideration is usability of these players. I have the lesser players from both companies, the Toshiba HD-A1 and Denon DVD-1920. Although I haven't owned either long, I would say video performance with standard DVD is equal, but user interface, loading times, ease of use sure favor the Denon and it might very well be the same case with the more expensive models. Both of my players combined cost me less than either of these players discussed so extrapolating my experience to the higher priced players might not be meaningful.

Chris

The Denon 3930 should not have shown any jagged lines what so ever. It features one of the best video processors around (Silicon Optix Realta). Very pricy unit however ($1,500.) And extremely short supply.

Check "Audioholics" and "Secrets" on-line reviews for more info about this player.

XA2 is a fine SD up-scaler - but I'm very disappointed w/ it's layer change. The Denon is perfect in this regard (I know you probably get tired of hearing me say that :D )


You're right, it was an 29xx series Iwas comapring! Thanks for the correction.

3930 is way overpriced for SD DVD upconversion, Realta or not.

Why not Tosh A20 with Realta SD upcoversion and HD-DVD for under $500 (free 5+ HD-DVDs promotion also)?

Also can't find the Denon 3930 in stock anywhere. Is there a shortage because it's in demand?

Hi all! New member...but lurking for awhile. Anyway, I am in the same boat as you. Apparetnly, Denon is having difficulty getting in the chip necessary to make the 3930. I assuming it is the T2 chip. Therefore, at this time, no one has it available. I have had mine on order for a month now with delays continuously occurring. Estimated time of shipment is end of March...maybe. However, all is not lost! The local company I am dealing with will, in the interim, let me use a 2930 until the 3930 comes back in. I only pay the difference even if it is 6 months from now!! I also got my A-stock Panny 9UK from the same dealer. What I love about this dealer is that I get A-stock for B-stock prices...including all current Denon models. And yes, the local company is an authorized Denon and Panny dealer. Got to love that!!

3930 is way overpriced for SD DVD upconversion, Realta or not.

Why not Tosh A20 with Realta SD upcoversion and HD-DVD for under $500 (free 5+ HD-DVDs promotion also)? I haven't see mentioned that the A20 has Reon, let alone Realta, inside. From what is being said it is a A2 with 1080p60 and HDMI 1.2a. It fits between the A2 and XA2.

larry

http://www.*********************/Toshiba_HD-A20_HD_DVD.htm

Robert who run this website has quoted saying it has Reon (similar to XA2) which allows 1080p via HDMI, and HDMI 1.2a (instead of HDMI 1.3 of XA2. We'll find out soon as it's due to ship 4/1/07: http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=811018

It does not have analog 5.1 audio outs and less tweaks as XA2.

I mispoke and said Realta as I tend to inacurrately lump Reon with Realta :D

Huey, Robert has recently said that's not the case. The A20 does not have the Reon.

Darn, then the A20 is not that great of a deal without the Reon. It's OK but not that special.

Wonder what chipset the A20 uses then to get 1080p via HDMI?

3930 is way overpriced for SD DVD upconversion, Realta or not.

Why not Tosh A20 with Realta SD upcoversion and HD-DVD for under $500 (free 5+ HD-DVDs promotion also)?

Overpriced is relevant only to how much money you have. The DVD-3930 and DVD-5910 offer a little better performance for a lot more money, both are great players. For me, both are overpriced but for someone with a lot more money, that isn't necessarily the case. Exactly the same build quality, appearance and performance for more money is an example of overpriced. Incremental improvements for a price is only relevant to how much money one has and how much the improvement is valued. $1 to me is more money than $1,000 is to Bill Gates.

Chris

That's a good point. Only time will tell if build quality of Denon justifies it's premium pricing as for me the XA2 makes more sense at $1000 with Reon SD/HD scaling, HDMI 1.3, analog audio out, and HD-DVD. That LG BD/HD-DVD combo player for $1200 is very tempting also. Samsung's BD-1200 also uses Reon.

It'll be nice once the format war is over so we can invest safely.

It will be interesting to see how the new Samsung performs, but Samsung has yet to make a DVD or Blu-ray player without issues in core performance and/or processing. It's widely accepted their current Blu-ray player is not in the same league as the PS3, Sony, Panasonic, or Pioneer for BD video quality. Hopefully, the Reon is implemented well enough for SD DVD.

It will be interesting to see how the new Samsung performs, but Samsung has yet to make a DVD or Blu-ray player without issues in core performance and/or processing. It's widely accepted their current Blu-ray player is not in the same league as the PS3, Sony, Panasonic, or Pioneer for BD video quality. Hopefully, the Reon is implemented well enough for SD DVD.

I own the Samsung BD-P1000 and think the performance is good after the last firmware update, probably on a par with PS3 but not up to the other three premium players. The budget Samsung universal DVD players I own, the DVD-HD841/941/950 are pretty good for the money, but like any budget player have some shortcomings.

Chris

I own the Samsung BD-P1000 and think the performance is good after the last firmware update, probably on a par with PS3 but not up to the other three premium players. The budget Samsung universal DVD players I own, the DVD-HD841/941/950 are pretty good for the money, but like any budget player have some shortcomings.

Chris

The general consensus is the PS3 is on par with the Sony, Panasonic, and Pioneer....while the Samsung player is below them. The only negative about the PS3 for BD playback is that is clips white and black - but hopefully that will be corrected via firmware.

The other negative for the PS3 is its poor performance for SD DVDs.

That's a good point. Only time will tell if build quality of Denon justifies it's premium pricing as for me the XA2 makes more sense at $1000 with Reon SD/HD scaling, HDMI 1.3, analog audio out, and HD-DVD. That LG BD/HD-DVD combo player for $1200 is very tempting also. Samsung's BD-1200 also uses Reon.

It'll be nice once the format war is over so we can invest safely.

You can find them for less than $1,000. Love mine by the way. Still prefer my 3910 for audio though.

That's a good point. Only time will tell if build quality of Denon justifies it's premium pricing as for me the XA2 makes more sense at $1000 with Reon SD/HD scaling, HDMI 1.3, analog audio out, and HD-DVD. That LG BD/HD-DVD combo player for $1200 is very tempting also. Samsung's BD-1200 also uses Reon.

It'll be nice once the format war is over so we can invest safely.

I think if you research the LG combo player, you will find it was not ready for prime time as far as HD DVD playback goes. It may be possible for LG to resolve all issues by firmware, but be careful if you are considering a purchase now. The upcoming Samsung BD-P1200 Blu-ray player looks very promising, but until they start showing up in members hands, it is a crap shoot considering Samsung's past players. Personally, I have had good luck with Samsung but issues with firmware and odd, poorly designed menus with my tuners and DVD players, sometimes makes them a big pain.

Chris