Anything better than the PB12 NSD in the 600 dollar range? What other options do I have?

That's the price range I'm looking at as well. After much reasearch I think I'm going with the Outlaw LFM-1.

That's the price range I'm looking at as well. After much reasearch I think I'm going with the Outlaw LFM-1.

Get the LFM-1 Plus if you can. It comes with free shipping, and should only be about $20 more than the LFM-1 considering that. The variable tuning down to 18 Hz is worth it IMO.

The LFM-1 Has more midbass output that the PB12-NSD because it is tuned at 25 Hz natively, whereas the NSD is tuned to 18 Hz. Though the NSD has much more output at 20 Hz.

If you tune the LFM-1 Plus to 18 Hz, then the Plus and the NSD should have very similar output from 20-62 Hz.

Another sub that isn't too shabby either, is the HSU research VTF-3.2 It is $559 + shipping, and was the previous flagship of the HSU line not too long ago when it was $699. It also has variable tuning and a 350 watt amp like the Outlaw Plus model.

All are good subs, that would definitely be a hard decision for me to make.

I'm sorry, links would probably be helpful, right :-)

http://www.outlawaudio.com/products/lfm1.html

http://www.outlawaudio.com/products/lfm1plus.html

http://www.hsuresearch.com/products/vtf-3.html

I highly recommend the Hsu VTF 3.3 I recently got it and it is noteworthy. Stunning, powerful and disappears into the soundstage for movies and music while rocking the house.

I highly recommend the Hsu VTF 3.3 I recently got it and it is noteworthy. Stunning, powerful and disappears into the soundstage for movies and music while rocking the house.

I believe that it is usually frowned upon to recommend a sub just because you own it, especially when it isn't within the OP's budget. :eek:

At least that's what I keep reading on other threads ;)

That's an $800 sub with shipping. It would seem he's looking in the $600-$650 range.

LFM-1 is same as STF-3

LFM-1 plus is same as VTF3.2.

Dr. Hsu designed all of them. They share nearly the same dimensions with same amp and driver.

Don't you love when people chime in to a $600 sub thread telling you to buy an $800 sub instead. (maybe I should suggest the JL f113 because it is "Stunning, powerful and disappears into the soundstage for movies and music while rocking the house. "

LOL

I think the models you are looking at and the models rockem suggested are all solid ways to go that will keep you within your budget.

From T. Nousaine's test,

LFM-1, 83 db at 20 Hz, 113.4 db at 32hz, 30hz to 73 Hz plus/minus 2 db

PB12 NSD, 96 db at 20 Hz, 108 db at 32hz, 34hz to 78 Hz plus/minus 2 db

Nearly all subwoofers perform less than manufacture's specification at Nousaine's 7500 square ft home with very few exceptions.

Get the LFM-1 Plus if you can. It comes with free shipping, and should only be about $20 more than the LFM-1 considering that. The variable tuning down to 18 Hz is worth it IMO.

The LFM-1 Has more midbass output that the PB12-NSD because it is tuned at 25 Hz natively, whereas the NSD is tuned to 18 Hz. Though the NSD has much more output at 20 Hz.

If you tune the LFM-1 Plus to 18 Hz, then the Plus and the NSD should have very similar output from 20-62 Hz.

Another sub that isn't too shabby either, is the HSU research VTF-3.2 It is $559 + shipping, and was the previous flagship of the HSU line not too long ago when it was $699. It also has variable tuning and a 350 watt amp like the Outlaw Plus model.

All are good subs, that would definitely be a hard decision for me to make.


I have my decision down to 3 subs and can't for the life of me decide which to get. They are the SVS PB12-NSD, The Outlaw LFM-1plus, and the HSU VTF 3.3. I know all are great performers, and all should sound great. I just can't make up my mind!!! :o

I have my decision down to 3 subs and can't for the life of me decide which to get. They are the SVS PB12-NSD, The Outlaw LFM-1plus, and the HSU VTF 3.3. I know all are great performers, and all should sound great. I just can't make up my mind!!! :o

You have a PM. I dont' want to hijack the thread.

It was not too long ago that it was really hard, if not impossible, to find a decent sub for under $1K. :( Now-a-days it is hard to decide what $600 sub to buy because they are all good.

Is this a great country or what? :D

I believe that it is usually frowned upon to recommend a sub just because you own it, especially when it isn't within the OP's budget. :eek:

At least that's what I keep reading on other threads ;)

That's an $800 sub with shipping. It would seem he's looking in the $600-$650 range.
I agree but then again, there are lots of people here recommending something because they read good reviews someplace else and don't even have a clue on how it perform. So I guess it goes both ways. If I was OP, I'll absorb everything thrown at me. Just my .02.

If patience is one of your stronger virtues, I would recommend waiting for the MFW-15 from Onix to come along in the next couple of months. It was designed by one of the most respected names in the audio game, Mark Seaton and at 599$ it should be killer. ;) :)


JR

Don't you love when people chime in to a $600 sub thread telling you to buy an $800 sub instead. (maybe I should suggest the JL f113 because it is "Stunning, powerful and disappears into the soundstage for movies and music while rocking the house. "

LOL

I think the models you are looking at and the models rockem suggested are all solid ways to go that will keep you within your budget.


The OP said a sub in the 600.00 range, not a 600.00 sub. To me that could mean give or take 100.00. No tax where I am at and almost all charge shipping, so another 100 over 6 to me is in range. More importantly it is worth it. :)

From T. Nousaine's test,

LFM-1, 83 db at 20 Hz, 113.4 db at 32hz, 30hz to 73 Hz plus/minus 2 db

PB12 NSD, 96 db at 20 Hz, 108 db at 32hz, 34hz to 78 Hz plus/minus 2 db

Nearly all subwoofers perform less than manufacture's specification at Nousaine's 7500 square ft home with very few exceptions.
Hey care to post a link to where you found this? I am partucularly interested in the PB10-NSD. Not trying to hi-jack this thread just looking at that sub.

The OP said a sub in the 600.00 range, not a 600.00 sub. To me that could mean give or take 100.00. No tax where I am at and almost all charge shipping, so another 100 over 6 to me is in range. More importantly it is worth it. :)

So... take $600 and give $100 and we end up with $800.

I see. :confused:

So... take $600 and give $100 and we end up with $800.

I see. :confused:

The VTF-3.3 is $699 plus shipping. The PB12-NSD is $599 plus shipping. Sounds like $100 to me. Both are excellent values.

So... take $600 and give $100 and we end up with $800.

I see. :confused:


What? How does a 699.00 sub become 800.00? I will answer your confusion by answering my own question. It doesn't. I don't know if you are being sarcastic or just didn't understand my point.

GIve or take 100.00 from 600.00 is either 500.00 or 700.00, not 800.00

I cannot suggest you anything, but can share what I have.

PE Dayton 15" Titantic MKiii with 1000 watts HPSA-1000 plate amp in my finished basement. This beast rocks and is capable of vibrating your intestines....cause it goes well below 19hz at 110db. I've tested this with TrueRTA and U-571 chapter 15 as someone suggested.

Takes you 15 mins to assemble and costs you $599. Don't like it, return it - No questions asked.

Next, I am looking to buy SVS SB12 for my bedroom (12' x 30') - Any suggestions?

I don't know a thing about SVS subs, except just about everybody that has one is
satisfied. Well built sub, and finished nicely, sounds great, etc, etc.

How about the Dayton 12" Titanic MKIII?......I have the 10" in a smaller second
home theater and it's one of the finest 10" subs I have heard. The 12" runs about
$600 shipped (that's to my zipcode in Calif).....just a suggestion, vardo

The VTF-3.3 is $699 plus shipping. The PB12-NSD is $599 plus shipping. Sounds like $100 to me. Both are excellent values.

I considered subs from both HSU and SVS, including the PB-12NSD. I ended up with a pair of subs from HSU. To me, the VTF-3 MK3 is worth the extra $100 over the SVS PB-12NSD.

Hey care to post a link to where you found this? I am partucularly interested in the PB10-NSD. Not trying to hi-jack this thread just looking at that sub.


Review of LFM1 is in Sept of 2004 issue, there is no link anymore, you have to dig it from your local lib. Or you can PM me, I can send you a page of PDF file with all charts.

Review of PB12 NSD is in Dec of 2006, here is the link:

http://www.soundandvisionmag.com/speakers/1932/test-bench-svs-sbs-01-home-theater-speaker-system.html

Tom Nousaine does all sub tests at his 7500 square ft home for S&V. His test condition are the same for nearly all subs he tested.

Here is another link for some of TN sub test:

http://members.cox.net/fabulousfrankie/Nousaine.htm

The VTF3.3 is $699+ $95 shipping = $794, which is $800 in accountant speak. :-)

Which is $120-$150 more than the LFM-1 Plus or PB12-NSD would be with shipping, which to some of use is alot of money. Shipping on the PB12-nsd is not $95, and it is free on the Outlaw.

The vtf3.3 is a $800 investment no matter how you slice it. I know if I walked into a store thinking I was going to pay $600 "give or take" for an item, and then they tell me it will be $699+$95, I would walk.

The VTF3.3 is $699+ $95 shipping = $794, which is $800 in accountant speak. :-)

Which is $120-$150 more than the LFM-1 Plus or PB12-NSD would be with shipping, which to some of use is alot of money. Shipping on the PB12-nsd is not $95, and it is free on the Outlaw.

The vtf3.3 is a $800 investment no matter how you slice it. I know if I walked into a store thinking I was going to pay $600 "give or take" for an item, and then they tell me it will be $699+$95, I would walk.

From Hsu's website:

VTF-3 MK3 Subwoofer

Black
In-stock:Yes
Regularly:$699.00
MSRP:$999
S/H:$75


I ran the rates from SVS for shipping ... we are 90 miles from the factory, and shipping is $51. Califorinia is $72. Let's call it $60 average.

So ... shipped, PB12-NSD is $659. VTF-3.3 is $774.

Is everyone happy ? :D

But what about the $100 turbo option........I almost thing you are crazy not to get the turbo for the extra $100.....considering its $200 if you buy it seperate...

Plus the turbo really does give you more from everything we have read and heard...

I got a PB 12 and havent regretted it, you probably wont notice much difference from these couple of quality subs, remember too, most of this stuff will only be as good as the source your listening too, most of the movies i have seen lately arent the most basserific... I can only watch War of the Worlds so many times, haha

:D The VTF3.3 is $699+ $95 shipping = $794, which is $800 in accountant speak. :-)

Which is $120-$150 more than the LFM-1 Plus or PB12-NSD would be with shipping, which to some of use is alot of money. Shipping on the PB12-nsd is not $95, and it is free on the Outlaw.

The vtf3.3 is a $800 investment no matter how you slice it. I know if I walked into a store thinking I was going to pay $600 "give or take" for an item, and then they tell me it will be $699+$95, I would walk.


The point is almost all subs, unless store bought, will require shipping. That means that any 600.00 sub, which is generally large and heavy, will not cost 600.00 to your door. Of course shipping is part of the cost. I own my own business and am very understanding of costs and prices and can be anal about it as well, but the reality is let's talk on a level playing field. Cost of actual product is one thing, shipping cost another, and total cost including shipping and product another.

I was talking about product cost, not total cost including shipping. Are we savvy? :D

My 20-39 (equal to PB-12 NSD) arrived today and all I can say is HOLY CRAP!!! This thing is unbelievable!! :eek:

Review of LFM1 is in Sept of 2004 issue, there is no link anymore, you have to dig it from your local lib. Or you can PM me, I can send you a page of PDF file with all charts.

Review of PB12 NSD is in Dec of 2006, here is the link:

http://www.soundandvisionmag.com/speakers/1932/test-bench-svs-sbs-01-home-theater-speaker-system.html

Tom Nousaine does all sub tests at his 7500 square ft home for S&V. His test condition are the same for nearly all subs he tested.

Here is another link for some of TN sub test:

http://members.cox.net/fabulousfrankie/Nousaine.htm
Thanks for the links. Wish I could find similiar info on the PB10-ISD/NSD. Did read the review by Ed Mullen which is very helpful but hope to find more. If you know where I can get more info please feel free to post me a link.

Thanks for the links. Wish I could find similiar info on the PB10-ISD/NSD. Did read the review by Ed Mullen which is very helpful but hope to find more. If you know where I can get more info please feel free to post me a link.

Audioholic.com has a review about PB-10 on music performance:

Here is the comments for PB-10 on music "There was just enough hold over on the PB10-ISD that some of the sections got a bit muddy and blurred". Notice the words "MUDDY and BLURRED ".

Here is the link for the review: http://www.audioholics.com/productreviews/loudspeakers/SVSSB01p3.php

Based on T. Nousaine's Sept 2004 sub review. PSB 6i is a good performer. It can produces 93.8 db at 20 Hz, average 108 db from 25 to 62 Hz, with a bandwidth uniformity of 98% (that number is the highest among all subs Nousaine has ever tested. It is the only B&M sub for less than $1000 that can produce more than 90 db at 20 Hz when tested by Nousaine. MSRP for PSB 6i is $699. A seller on ebay is selling PSB 6i for $479, at that price, it competes favorably with any sub for less than $600.

T. Nousaine has done all sub tests for S&V and other audio mags. He probably has measured/auditioned more subs than any other sub reviewers. Ed Mullen called him the ACE of subs.

Here is the comments for PB-10 on music "There was just enough hold over on the PB10-ISD that some of the sections got a bit muddy and blurred". Notice the words "MUDDY and BLURRED ".

Here is the link for the review: http://www.audioholics.com/productreviews/loudspeakers/SVSSB01p3.php

But, from the same article but for movies (just for comparison):

The PB10-ISD has extremely good Internet buzz and it is easy to see why. It didn’t flinch at the opening explosions ("Incredibles" movie), the battle with the robot, the chase through the jungle (my favorite), or the final battle. It took everything I threw at it and didn’t even hiccup. The fact that this is a $400 subwoofer absolutely blows my mind. The performance is completely unreal. I noticed no port chuffing or strain from the sub.

Another article to look at is the one comparing the PB10 to a JBL, Infinity, and Velodyne subs in the same price range. There was really no comparison at that price point when the article was written (now, look at Hsu too for that price). The article stated that if you use a 25Hz high pass filter, the PB10 becomes much more musical

I do have one, and I think it's great. If you're looking for music primarily, I'd consider a Rocket sub (AV123), but for home theater, it looks like only a Hsu or diy can match it for its price.

Audioholic.com has a review about PB-10 on music performance:

Here is the comments for PB-10 on music "There was just enough hold over on the PB10-ISD that some of the sections got a bit muddy and blurred". Notice the words "MUDDY and BLURRED ".

Here is the link for the review: http://www.audioholics.com/productreviews/loudspeakers/SVSSB01p3.php

Based on T. Nousaine's Sept 2004 sub review. PSB 6i is a good performer. It can produces 93.8 db at 20 Hz, average 108 db from 25 to 62 Hz, with a bandwidth uniformity of 98% (that number is the highest among all subs Nousaine has ever tested. It is the only B&M sub for less than $1000 that can produce more than 90 db at 20 Hz when tested by Nousaine. MSRP for PSB 6i is $699. A seller on ebay is selling PSB 6i for $479, at that price, it competes favorably with any sub for less than $600.

T. Nousaine has done all sub tests for S&V and other audio mags. He probably has measured/auditioned more subs than any other sub reviewers. Ed Mullen called him the ACE of subs.
Thanks for the link. I have read that review before just forgot about it. I also have read the review that Ed Mullen wrote and as such found it to be quite helpful. My PB10-NSD is on its way. If, it is a bit sloppy with music then I will simply turn it off and use my Acoustic Research subs as they are stellar. I mainly wanted the PB10-NSD to fill in the very bottom which from what I have read time and again should do the job quite superbly. I could have gotten the PB12-NSD or the Hsu VTF2.3/3.2 BUT would run into a lot of problems with my next door neighbors. I am fully aware the PB10 could do the same thing but got a B-stock deal I could not pass up. In short, the PB10 does quite well done low but that comes at a cost albeit 25 HZ and up and especially in the upper midbass range of 60-80 Hz. This is where my Acoustic Research 8" subs will add to the mix resulting in a nice punchy, atriculate bass line with plenty of headroom. At least, I hope it does. :) :)

But, from the same article but for movies (just for comparison):

Another article to look at is the one comparing the PB10 to a JBL, Infinity, and Velodyne subs in the same price range. There was really no comparison at that price point when the article was written (now, look at Hsu too for that price). The article stated that if you use a 25Hz high pass filter, the PB10 becomes much more musical

I do have one, and I think it's great. If you're looking for music primarily, I'd consider a Rocket sub (AV123), but for home theater, it looks like only a Hsu or diy can match it for its price.
Thanks for the advice. Have ordered a B-stock PB10-NSD and it is on its way-can't wait!!!!! :) :)

i have a psb subsonic 6i and like it alot. easily in your budget. if you can stretch your budget a bit you can you could also look at the psb subsonic 8.

PSB 6i Specifications:
Decibel rating : 111 dB SPL
Amplifier Power : 225 Continuous
Amplifier Power : 700 Peak Watts
Woofer : 12 " Charcoal Polypropylene Cone
Rubber Surrounds, 2" Voice Coil with a 53 oz magnet
Internal Volume Design Type : Bass Reflex
Size : 15 x 19 7/8 x 19 1/4"
Shipping Weight : 53 lb
Finish : Black Ash