if this is possible..... for what i've read, it seems to be totally useless.

if this is possible..... for what i've read, it seems to be totally useless.

If you are talking about a picture being totally useless, probably true. If you are talking about an upscaling DVD player being totally useless, I disagree and believe the big majority of users find a worthwhile improvement with upscaling DVD. I do see posts from people that determined it isn't worth it and therefore don't own one, which is fine, but I do own upscaling players and believe differently.

Chris

See the Sharp 52" 1080p LCD review here: http://www.hdtvexpert.com/pages_b/Sharp_LC-52D62U.html

Figure 8a-8b compares the TV receiving 480p (progressive) vs 1080p (upscaling) signal. The upconverted image is clearly better. Consider the TV is not a run-of-the-mill model but their top of the line, I think it verifies the upconverting is not useless.

but if you take an MP3 for exemple...... take a 192kbs and convert it to 320kbs..... it won't sound any better..... or take a low res JPG and convert it to a hi res.... it won't look better either.....

that's why i think upscaling is probably only in your mind?

but if you take an MP3 for exemple...... take a 192kbs and convert it to 320kbs..... it won't sound any better..... or take a low res JPG and convert it to a hi res.... it won't look better either.....

that's why i think upscaling is probably only in your mind?

Scaling is not in your mind, it's on the screen. It has to take place somehwere, either within the display or in an external box like the dvd player or video processor. The question is: which method does it best?

This is treated in several sticky threads at the top of this forum.

-Bill

Scaling is not in your mind, it's on the screen. It has to take place somehwere, either within the display or in an external box like the dvd player or video processor. The question is: which method does it best?

This is treated in several sticky threads at the top of this forum.

-Bill
I agree, but would like to state this differently. DVD is 480x720. Any attempt to scale the image to a different resolution can only degrade the image. The only question is whether the DVD player or the display degrades the image more. Of course, the DVD marketing folks do not explain it this way.

I agree, but would like to state this differently. DVD is 480x720. Any attempt to scale the image to a different resolution can only degrade the image. The only question is whether the DVD player or the display degrades the image more. Of course, the DVD marketing folks do not explain it this way.

That is not my experience. The new pixels are interpolated, but they are good-looking pixels. (This from using the Oppo 971 and 981; I've never demoed other upscaling players).

The SD-DVD will never be HD, but often when watching a well-mastered disc I often think: "I can't believe there are only 480 vertical pixels in the original".

-Bill

how would you like these pictures to be shown?
because you need to compare an SD DVD on a SD projector/tv screenshot with a HD projector/tv with an upscaled pixelmapped progressiv screenshot.
well I have just that:
Optoma H27 480p on a white screen
http://www.minhembio.com/bild/77607.jpg

Mitsubishi HC1100 on a grey invideo with 720p from a Denon 1930 perfectly pixelmapped and razor sharp.
http://www.minhembio.com/bild/106499.jpg

But I want to know why you want to see this comparison? do you have a HD tv or SD tv? if SD then you dont need an upscaler, if HD then you will upscale the picture wether you want to or not, because the tv will do it if your dvd doesnt, and the tv might not to it very good, and THIS is why you need upscaling DVDs. because if not, the picture might look worse then on a SD tv if the HD tvs scaler is crap.

DVD is 480x720. Any attempt to scale the image to a different resolution can only degrade the image.Non-upscaled 480x720 would be a really eentsy image on most modern TV sets. Upscaling to a size that looks better from more than 2 inches from the screen is a definite improvement in appearance, in my opinion:-)

Seriously, instead of having yet another back-and-forth thread on the merits of upscaling (there's a dedicated sticky thread for this), does anyone have a link to the thread from a few months ago where photos were posted of the same scene at different player settings? It shows detail being revealed at the upscaled settings that are not visible at 480p. I can replicate this on my setup, but my attempts at taking photos have been useless crap. - DR

beagle five , nice pics........ although they aren't from the same view size.

but if you take an MP3 for exemple...... take a 192kbs and convert it to 320kbs..... it won't sound any better..... or take a low res JPG and convert it to a hi res.... it won't look better either.....

that's why i think upscaling is probably only in your mind?

True for an mp3, but think about a JPEG that you are viewing at 400% its actual pixel size. Then use Photoshop to upsample the image so that it is now the same pixel size as the 400% view of the original. It won't look crisp by any means, but it will be smoother and less blocky than the blown up image.

Non-upscaled 480x720 would be a really eentsy image on most modern TV sets. Upscaling to a size that looks better from more than 2 inches from the screen is a definite improvement in appearance, in my opinion:-)
Funny :rolleyes:

I agree, but would like to state this differently. DVD is 480x720. Any attempt to scale the image to a different resolution can only degrade the image. The only question is whether the DVD player or the display degrades the image more. Of course, the DVD marketing folks do not explain it this way.That is not my experience. The new pixels are interpolated, but they are good-looking pixels. (This from using the Oppo 971 and 981; I've never demoed other upscaling players).

The SD-DVD will never be HD, but often when watching a well-mastered disc I often think: "I can't believe there are only 480 vertical pixels in the original".

-Bill
I'm not saying it can't look good. I'm just saying that the true source image is 480x720. Any display that is not native 480x720 (almost all recent) requires some kind of scaling. You can use the display or the DVD player to do that. There are very good scalers out there that scale with very little distortion of the original source image. When people are raving about how good an upscaling DVD player makes their DVDs look they are not experiencing any sort of magical transformation -- they are merely experiencing the potential of SD DVD. Prior to good upscaling DVD players many people were simply experiencing combinations of poor decoding, de-interlacing and scaling -- resulting in an image severely distorted from the mpeg source.

Upscaling players are great for displays with poor internal scalers. However, even really good displays benefit from the improved de-interlacing and video processing of some of the recent players. I have an OPPO 970 and a Toshiba HD-XA2 and use them both with 480P analog component. Both of these are noticibly better than the previous players I owned.

I'm not saying it can't look good.

So it doesn't really degrade the image?

-Bill

So it doesn't really degrade the image?

-Bill
In the case of good scaling the degredation is negligible. Unfortunately, many of the scalers in displays are not good and the result did not do justice for DVD. Upscaling DVD players help people with those displays get a less degraded DVD image.

beagle five , nice pics........ although they aren't from the same view size.
I noticed that also, but the 981 pic is taken closer to the screen. The big vertical lines are farther apart.

larry