1. Dual SVS PB12-Plus/2
2. Quad HSU 3.2
3. Trio HSU 3.3 w/turbo
4. Dual HSU HO w/turbo
5. Single JL Audio f113
6. Single Submersive1
7. BMF
8. Trio 16-46 PC+
9. Quad PB12-NSD
10. Quad SB12-Plus

That's a difficult choice since a BMF hasn't been built yet and a Submersive has not been extensively evaluated and reviewed.

As a owner of dual SB12+'s, I would not go with quad SB's. For that kind of money, you should be able to go deep. The SB's are super clean, but not that deep.

It depends, almost entirely, on what your goals are.

-Eli

Dude you know what I'm going to say---Trio 16-46 PC+

The ability to dig SUPER DEEP....and a trio would give you all the headroom you could need!!! (with any of these options you probably would need an EQ to smooth things out)

Plus I personally think it would look the coolest. Having a Trio of those towering in a corner of a room...... :eek:


Ya and I have no WAF right now so what I think looks COOL....I bet a girl would NOT! LOL

It depends, almost entirely, on what your goals are.

-Eli

I agree...

In order to please the wife, I bought one JL Fathom F113. It has a small footprint, pretty piano gloss, and excellent output for a sub that size.

If I was a bachelor with no ties, I'd probably get the dual Plus/2s.

Where do we find info on Submerives. A Google search on it and Mark Seaton produced nothing but forum talk.
?????????

Where do we find info on Submerives. A Google search on it and Mark Seaton produced nothing but forum talk.
?????????

Forum info is all we have thus far.... His website is put on hold as he continues to develop numerous subwoofers for Seaton Sound and AV123.

I agree...

In order to please the wife, I bought one JL Fathom F113. It has a small footprint, pretty piano gloss, and excellent output for a sub that size.

If I was a bachelor with no ties, I'd probably get the dual Plus/2s.
I am in your shoes. It is not that she asked me to remove the DTS-20, it is more of a dissatisfaction I see and I am not that happy when she is not happy about the purchase. Dual Plus/2s are Ok. WIth the Danley DTS-20, I crossed the line :D.
The cylinders is another story. I don't know how well that would go either. One or 2 cylinders yes. Three?!! is again yet to be seen.

Even dual 16-46+ would be impressive.

Dual Plus/2 would be impressive too....and VERY VERY heavy to move around.

I'm a big fan of the PC+ weighing in under 70lbs. It allows me to pick it up and move it wherever I want. I cannot IMAGINE picking up a PLUS/2 by myself....I'd die!

I don't know your time frame, but unless you already have a favorite I'd wait a few more months. The new Ultra should be out by then, as well as the MFW-15 and UFW-12 hot rod from AV123.

I agree with mojo and bgilly -- cross multiple higher tuned subs off your list, and eliminate any sub that won't go down to 16Hz without using additional external EQ.

Take a look at the attached charts and see what 4 HSU 3.2s can do. How did I come up with this would be best explained in this thread Here (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=800497)
I wish we had such measurements for the SVS 16-46 PC+ and the HSU 3.3 and HO w/turbo.

Or you could get one f113 now, which would def. please the wife!!!!

and in a year get a 2nd......you can just say "Honey I got rid of the monster for you and got this little tiny sub.....can't I please have another since I was so reasonable before"

LOL

:D

Jai.......can you extrapolate the information about the 16-46+ based on my results.

I'd be happy to give you numbers based on any scene to help you out in any way I can.

For Duals just add +6db to any of those current numbers and that should give you an idea about dual collocated corner loaded in my size room...

Jai's results were based on outdoor measurements. Comparing them to indoor measurements would not be very meaningful.

ahhhhhh very true....forgot his measurements were outdoors..

but wouldn't it be of somehelp too look at the indoor measurements too since we listen to our subs indoors?

I know they will vary from setting to setting based on numerous factors.....but you can still get a "general" idea within a reasonable margin.

ahhhhhh very true....forgot his measurements were outdoors..

but wouldn't it be of somehelp too look at the indoor measurements too since we listen to our subs indoors?

I know they will vary from setting to setting based on numerous factors.....but you can still get a "general" idea within a reasonable margin.
Stuff can vary greatly from room to room and placement to placement.

ahhhhhh very true....forgot his measurements were outdoors..

but wouldn't it be of somehelp too look at the indoor measurements too since we listen to our subs indoors?

I know they will vary from setting to setting based on numerous factors.....but you can still get a "general" idea within a reasonable margin.
Chang is right. Outdoor cannot be mixed with indoor measurments. Thanks for the offer though. If you can do some outdoor measurements with TrueRTA and ETF that would be awesome.

Or you could get one f113 now, which would def. please the wife!!!!

and in a year get a 2nd......you can just say "Honey I got rid of the monster for you and got this little tiny sub.....can't I please have another since I was so reasonable before"

LOL

:D
That is exactly what I am thinking. But 1 f113 is not going to cut it I guess. I will be going for a demo this week.

Just explain to the wife that inorder to lose the monster that you'll have to up the budget a bit :D

I totally for get what your room is like.

How big is it? Is it sealed??

Since you owned the ultra from svs and the DTS-20 you know the sound quality difference. If the sound quality is the most important factor then I would wait for the submersive because he worked with danley labs, and the new ultra. Of course the jl audio is there as well. I would pick between those 3 and I have never heard any of them. There is one person who likes the ho with turbo better than the jl audio in his room, but he may be the exception. This will be very hard coming from the dts-20. It is hard finding better bass than that. Of course getting spl's is easy with any of your choices.

I've been in touch with Doug @ ETF wherein I had some questions on fastness of a sub and how impulse response could be used to get some idea about it. According to Doug, impulse response and frequency response are the same thing but different representations. At first I did not catch the point because I wondered how could an FR curve tell how fast or slow a sub is. He pointed me to read this document FrequencyResponse.pdf in this link
http://www.etfacoustic.com/RPlusDSite/index.html
Basically a flat frequency response guarantees fastness too. The only reason he put the impulse response chart there is to show that the data was collected correctly using the proper gating. Impulse response charts should not be used to determine fastness because they are very difficult to read and can be misleading according to Doug and one should only look at the FR chart.

Now I am after a flat response sub like the DTS-20. The HSU 3.2 does very well with FR. So does the JL. The Plus/2 is not flat at all at 25Hz tune especially the new drivers, At 20Hz it gets better. Ilkka has measurments on the 25-31. I would imagine the 16-46PC+ to have a flatter response.

It is high time someone measured the HO and 3.3 w/turbo with ETF outdoors. Maybe I will be the one to do it soon :)

Since you owned the ultra from svs and the DTS-20 you know the sound quality difference. If the sound quality is the most important factor then I would wait for the submersive because he worked with danley labs, and the new ultra. Of course the jl audio is there as well. I would pick between those 3 and I have never heard any of them. There is one person who likes the ho with turbo better than the jl audio in his room, but he may be the exception. This will be very hard coming from the dts-20. It is hard finding better bass than that. Of course getting spl's is easy with any of your choices.
James,
Can you point me to the link where the person liked the HO better than the JL? Was it 112 or 113 that he compared it to?
-Jai

I have to try to remember where I read that. Maybe the person who wrote that can chime in. He had a MBM as well. That combo was the best in his room and he had the jl audio and other's. Time for some searching.

I've been in touch with Doug @ ETF wherein I had some questions on fastness of a sub and how impulse response could be used to get some idea about it. According to Doug, impulse response and frequency response are the same thing but different representations. At first I did not catch the point because I wondered how could an FR curve tell how fast or slow a sub is. He pointed me to read this document FrequencyResponse.pdf in this link
http://www.etfacoustic.com/RPlusDSite/index.html
Basically a flat frequency response guarantees fastness too. The only reason he put the impulse response chart there is to show that the data was collected correctly using the proper gating. Impulse response charts should not be used to determine fastness because they are very difficult to read and can be misleading according to Doug and one should only look at the FR chart.

Now I am after a flat response sub like the DTS-20. The HSU 3.2 does very well with FR. So does the JL. The Plus/2 is not flat at all at 25Hz tune especially the new drivers, At 20Hz it gets better. Ilkka has measurments on the 25-31. I would imagine the 16-46PC+ to have a flatter response.
I want to emphasize that one has to exercise caution while giving too much weight to just FR charts. The FR in ETF is derived using MLS tones or Sweeps induced measurements. Impulse response captured in the time domain is transformed to the frequency domain using fast fourier transforms (brush up on your engineering 101 classes :). FR captured this way is different from FR measured using steady sine waves at discrete points. So what Doug says would mostly apply to the way measurements are done in ETF. IN other words if someone were to measure FR outside using steady sine waves and obtains a flat FR, it may not guarantee fastness. PLease correct me if I am wrong.

It depends, almost entirely, on what your goals are.

-Eli
Accuracy/SQ, SPL and not too intrusive such that it need not have the best WAF but should not have poor WAF. (example, DTS-20 poor WAF. F113 best WAF, reasonable WAF Plus/2).

I am in your shoes. It is not that she asked me to remove the DTS-20, it is more of a dissatisfaction I see and I am not that happy when she is not happy about the purchase. Dual Plus/2s are Ok. WIth the Danley DTS-20, I crossed the line :D.

At least you your marriage and life are still intact. :D

I think my wife would have walked out the door if I had the Danley DTS-20. I hope one day when I have a dedicated HT room, I can make a purchase like that.

At least you your marriage and life are still intact. :D

You bet :). I have my priorities right man :D.

I think the suggestion to hold off until the SVS Ultra comes out is a good one.

This has been really building up and I'm so curious to see how it performs....plus the options of all the SS filter and even sealed are very very nice to have.

I'm not sure I'd pull the trigger until I heard that or at least got some peoples views on the sub.

We all know the JL is amazing and it is small, thus the WAF dream!! But what if the Ultra can get close to/match/beat the F113 for half the price and still not be anywhere near the size of DT-20??

Jai,
That statement about someone liking the ho with turbo and MBM was in craigsub rankings thread. It was from dreamcatcher. He sold his jl audio 113 and purchased a ho turbo as a temporary solution until the gotham came out. He then said maybe he won't buy the gotham after all. I think it was on the first page.

There was a guy you had a dd 18 and a dts-20 and thought the dts-20 was in a whole other league.

Jai,
That statement about someone liking the ho with turbo and MBM was in craigsub rankings thread. It was from dreamcatcher. He sold his jl audio 113 and purchased a ho turbo as a temporary solution until the gotham came out. He then said maybe he won't buy the gotham after all. I think it was on the first page.

There was a guy you had a dd 18 and a dts-20 and thought the dts-20 was in a whole other league.
Thanks James. Yes, the DTS-20 is a different beast.

Jai,
That statement about someone liking the ho with turbo and MBM was in craigsub rankings thread. It was from dreamcatcher. He sold his jl audio 113 and purchased a ho turbo as a temporary solution until the gotham came out. He then said maybe he won't buy the gotham after all. I think it was on the first page.

There was a guy you had a dd 18 and a dts-20 and thought the dts-20 was in a whole other league.

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=9166747&&#post9166747

Jai,
That statement about someone liking the ho with turbo and MBM was in craigsub rankings thread. It was from dreamcatcher. He sold his jl audio 113 and purchased a ho turbo as a temporary solution until the gotham came out. He then said maybe he won't buy the gotham after all. I think it was on the first page.

There was a guy you had a dd 18 and a dts-20 and thought the dts-20 was in a whole other league.
Looks like he sold those http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=796778
No room? That's kind of odd. It's not a DTS-20 :).
Any idea what he switched to?

Jai,
you should send him a PM to find out what he ended up with or is he waiting for the Gotham.

I heard back from Dreamcatcher. Mk, you are right that he is waiting on the Gotham but he is also considering the new Ultra. He currently has an Ultra cylinder. According to him the HO is not in the same league as the f113 and the f113 is the best sub he has ever heard.

wow high praise

The Ultra has its work cut out for it vs the F113 it sounds like....

That should make it easy for you. The submersive1, jl audio, and maybe the new ultra, that is it. Or have danley make you a smaller sub, they do sell smaller ones you know.