My Blu-Ray Movie Burning Experiences...

[LeeB99]

Hi Everyone,

I know that a lot of you are probably like me, and have a lot of content archived on D-VHS and possibly even PC hard drives that was collected from broadcast HD material. Recently, I started converting some of these movies to HD DVD (I support BOTH formats) and got kind of tired of splitting the movies up into two different discs (using dual layer DVD's). They worked great and all, but there were a few shows that I just didn't feel like swapping discs on, and even a few would have actually required 3 discs!

That got me to thinking... With a Blu-Ray 50 GB, I could LITERALLY put the entire original (high bitrate versions of) the "holy trilogy" on ONE disc! That was all the motivation that I needed. I did some searching around, and found that the Sony internal (100) model supports both the 25 and 50 GB discs in both -R and -RE forms. Other drives (which actually are MORE EXPENSIVE) only supported the 25 GB single layer variety.

After looking at some websites, I noticed that both Circuit City and Best Buy had the Sony recorder on sale for $599, which was less than most online retailers. I went by Best Buy in person, and to my surprise, they had a couple of them in stock. I wasn't expecting this, as their website stated that they were not available for store pickup. I just so happened to have a 12% off reward zone coupon, and I ended up purchasing it for $529.

After going home, I plugged the drive into my primary PC, and my computer (for some strange reason) would not boot into windows OR go into the BIOS settings. Apparently, the drive confused my "older" (and I use this term loosely) motherboard. Determined to make this work, I pulled the drive and installed it into my son's "newer" computer. It was recognized and worked fine.

I loaded the supplied software, and did a test burn with a 25 GB BD-RE disc. I am not about to start burning $18 coasters at this point. Sure enough, my first 5-7 discs would have been "coasters", as my Playstation 3 refused to play them and came up with an error code. After doing a search on the 'net using this error code, I was pointed to a thread that explained that this issue had been fixed through a recent patch on Cyberlink's website. By installing the "Sony patch" to the Director software that came with the drive, I was FINALLY able to produce WORKING Blu-Ray movie discs for the PS3.

At this point, there are only 2 "issues" that I am experiencing:

1) There are audio dropouts that appear to effect the first minute (only) of the video files. After the first 30 seconds to a minute, it doesn't appear to happen again. This is consistently happening, even when the source video file has no noticeable issues. This HAS to be happening during the processing of the files in the Cyberlink software. My temporary fix for this is that I am going to put some type of "filler" intro material before the feature, so that the audio dropouts will be over before the movie starts.

2) My receiver does not flag the video as full dolby digital. My HD DVD conversions of the same material DID. This is a Playstation 3 issue, and it also happens when you play a "normal" video file from the media center. The interesting thing is that the audio "sounds" fine, and is most certainly multi-channel. When I select to view the information on the stream, the PS3 shows an accurate bitrate for the video, and lists the audio as Dolby Digital 48Khz @ 256 Mbps. In comparison, a "regular" 5.1 signal from a retail Blu-Ray disc shows 48Khz @ 640 Mbps. At this point, I do not know if the audio source for my videos is actually at a higher audio bitrate and is being downsampled by the PS3, or if the issue with my receiver not flagging the 5.1 signal as Dolby Digital is a PS3 firmware issue. I suspect the latter, as the video and audio is NOT being processed or converted IN ANY WAY by the Cyberlink software. It would be interesting to see what kind of output a set-top Blu-Ray player would show.

Overall, I am EXTREMELY pleased with my initial results. Using the -RE discs is a VERY conveinent way to "proof" my burns. I thought that I should share my results with you all, since I was unable to find much info about doing this from performing a search on the internet. If this information has already been covered here, please forgive me, as I have been VERY busy lately and have not spent much time on this forum recently. I Hope this information will help those who were looking for a solution for making a durable (and more importantly conveinently usable) backup of your archived HD material...

Lee

[Jiffylush]

Thanks for the post, couple of questions:

How long is the burning process? Maybe some examples with different sizes?

This is probably a dumb question but is the burner buffer underrun proof? If the computer has a slight problem or can't provide the data fast enough will the burning pause and wait for the buffer to fill back up without failing?

What bitrate are you using/getting, are you just getting the same as the source? does it pad or have default settings in the software?



again thanks for the info

[Khoi Pham]

Thanks for the post, couple of questions:

How long is the burning process? Maybe some examples with different sizes?

This is probably a dumb question but is the burner buffer underrun proof? If the computer has a slight problem or can't provide the data fast enough will the burning pause and wait for the buffer to fill back up without failing?

What bitrate are you using/getting, are you just getting the same as the source? does it pad or have default settings in the software?



again thanks for the info

So what file format did you use to burn?
Have you try changing the PS3 audio output to bitstream so your receiver can see it as Dolby Digital?

[txfilmguy]

When I select to view the information on the stream, the PS3 shows an accurate bitrate for the video, and lists the audio as Dolby Digital 48Khz @ 256 Mbps. In comparison, a "regular" 5.1 signal from a retail Blu-Ray disc shows 48Khz @ 640 Mbps. At this point, I do not know if the audio source for my videos is actually at a higher audio bitrate and is being downsampled by the PS3, or if the issue with my receiver not flagging the 5.1 signal as Dolby Digital is a PS3 firmware issue.
640 Mbps is indeed pretty much the standard DD 5.1 bitrate for commercial Blu-rays, but 5.1 can be produced at lower bitrates, and almost always is on SD DVD's. Pink Floyd's PULSE is the only SD DVD I can think of with a 640 Mbps DD encode. It's likely that if your movies came from cable or satellite, 256 Mbps was the bitrate of the original broadcast. Then again, I could be completely clueless.

[LeeB99]

Yes, the audio output is in "bitstream" mode. The receiver flags the "retail" Blu-Ray discs just fine. It is DEFINITELY a PS3 firmware issue, and as noted in my previous post, you get the exact same result playing a 5.1 Mpeg in the normal "media center" mode. Unlike that, with the BD-RE disc, the PS3 is reading a disc that is in "BDAV" format, which you would "think" would elminate the issue that one sees in the media player. For some reason, the PS3 "knows" that it isn't a retail DVD, and that somehow changes the audio output. I have not examined the bitrate of my source videos to see what they are at, so for all I know, they are 256Mbps to begin with. The results that I am posting are from preliminary burns, and as I experiment more, I SHOULD learn more about exactly what is going on.

The burning process is REALLY FAST. The software uses a "direct burn" system that compiles the folders and burns "on the fly". A FULL 25GB disc only takes between 30-40 minutes to burn, and less if you are only burning only one movie on to the disc. The bitrates are EXACTLY the same as the source, so what you get in the final burn is directly tied to the source. Most "broadcast" HD material hovers in the 9-11 Mbps range, but "high bitrate" material is up in the 20+ Mbps range. The "Best" HBO-HD material (for example) seems to peak out around 15 Mbps. When I "explore" the disc after burning, I find that the file size of the M2TS stream is basically identical to the original HD Mpeg.

Since the burner records at 2X speed, and this INCLUDES rewriteable media, you can burn 25 GB worth of material in 30 minutes "best case scenario". When using the Cyberlink software (which does NOT re-encode the video, Praise GOD!) the folder organizing coupled with the lead-out and lead-in burning will increase this time to about 40 minutes "maximum". Of course, a full 50 GB "dual layer" disc will end up taking around an hour.

TX- Your thoughts on bitrate sounds pretty good. I think that the reason why the receiver doesn't flag it as "Dolby Digital" HAS to do with the PS3. It is the ONLY reasonable answer. I have converted the SAME videos to HD DVD format, and my receiver flags them as Dolby Digital (as you would expect). Now, my receiver DOES see it as "multi channel audio", it just doesn't recognize it as "Dolby Digital" for some reason...

Lee

[Nathan_R]

I hope this thread doesn't get moved to the HTPC forum. It would also be nice if a BD-authoring sticky would find its way to the top of this forum, much like the HD DVD Software has its own stickied Authoring/Burning thread. :)

Anyway, I've transferred a few D-VHS recordings and Motorola cable box archives to 25GB BD-REs with the same burner Lee uses (Sony BWU-100a) and my results have been more or less similar. I'm also using Vista Ultimate, for what it's worth.

At first, I would only get DD stereo output from my authored discs, but then I found the setting in Power Producer to allow MPEG 5.1 streams to write to the disc. Oddly enough, my Sammy P1000's display says my 5.1 BDs are 2-channel, but my Anthem AVM-50 is correctly identifying the 5.1 PCM stream.

My burning times are much higher (read: longer) than Lee's, but then again, I have my Sony burner in an external 5.25" enclosure (the blasted Sony faceplate wouldn't fit in my PC's case). I'm sure the USB connection is affecting my write speeds.

Overall, my authored discs are hit-or-miss. I'm soooo happy I bought BD-REs, as I would have made at least 20 coasters by now. I've noticed strange dropouts on my BD-REs that neither my D-VHS versions or previously-recorded HD Cable feeds have. I can't quite explain it, but I'm fairly certain it has to do with the encodes I've done from .TS to .MPEG in VideoRedo.

Anyone else want to share BD-RE authoring experiences?

[Slim GoodBooty]

I've been waiting to do that, but I've had zero problems burning red laser HDDVDs of high def material. I was hoping to move to Bluray for stuff over 1.5 hours, but it seems like it's still a month or four off. :(

[Slim GoodBooty]

I hope this thread doesn't get moved to the HTPC forum. It would also be nice if a BD-authoring sticky would find its way to the top of this forum, much like the HD DVD Software has its own stickied Authoring/Burning thread. :)

Anyway, I've transferred a few D-VHS recordings and Motorola cable box archives to 25GB BD-REs with the same burner Lee uses (Sony BWU-100a) and my results have been more or less similar. I'm also using Vista Ultimate, for what it's worth.

At first, I would only get DD stereo output from my authored discs, but then I found the setting in the Sonic recorder to allow MPEG 5.1 streams to write to the disc. Oddly enough, my Sammy P1000's display says my 5.1 BDs are 2-channel, but my Anthem AVM-50 is correctly identifying the 5.1 PCM stream.

My burning times are much higher (read: longer) than Lee's, but then again, I have my Sony burner in an external 5.25" enclosure (the blasted Sony faceplate wouldn't fit in my PC's case). I'm sure the USB connection is affecting my write speeds.

Overall, my authored discs are hit-or-miss. I'm soooo happy I bought BD-REs, as I would have made at least 20 coasters by now. I've noticed strange dropouts on my BD-REs that neither my D-VHS versions or previously-recorded HD Cable feeds have. I can't quite explain it, but I'm fairly certain it has to do with the encodes I've done from .TS to .MPEG in VideoRedo.

Anyone else want to share BD-RE authoring experiences?

You should be able to burn at 2X over USB2.0.

[MozartMan]

At first, I would only get DD stereo output from my authored discs, but then I found the setting in the Sonic recorder to allow MPEG 5.1 streams to write to the disc.
Nathan,

What is Sonic recorder?

[Nathan_R]

Nathan,

What is Sonic recorder?

I'm sorry, I meant Power Producer. I'll correct my post. All these authoring tools (and experimenting with multiple ones at a time) kinda run together after a while.

[DaveFi]

Alas this does me little good because most of the DVHS tapes I made off cable had 5C protection on so I can't back it up.:(

[MozartMan]

I'm sorry, I meant Power Producer.
What is your version?
I don't see that option in my Power Producer.

See attached picture.

[LeeB99]

I have used the same setting in Power Producer, and yet my receiver "still" seems to not accept it as a dolby digital 5.1 stream. The strange thing is, the audio is OBVIOUSLY multi-channel, as the center channel IS the voice track, the Left and Right front channels make sounds when appropriate (with the video) and the surrounds seem to run when they "should". The audio does not "sound bad", but I suppose that every time I look at my receiver and see it in "Home Cinema" mode instead of "THX Ultra2", I will keep wondering if I am missing out on something...

I have yet to burn a -R disc, even though I purchased several at the store. I am trying different movies to see how they burn on the re-writeable disc first. I sure would hate to waste a bunch of $18 -R discs. Have you tried burning a -R disc yet? Perhaps the audio dropouts MIGHT not be present on an "R" disc?

I don't think that your audio issues have ANYTHING to do with you conversion from .ts to .mpeg. I have checked my files with the VLC player, and even in the power producer software before burning it to disc, and they are audio "glitch free". I am thinking that there must be SOMETHING that is taking place during the initial burn and folder creation that causes an issue, as it only seems to occur at the very beginning of each file/show. Much like the incompatibility with the PS3 was an issue in the Power Producer software initially, I am sure that this is also software related. Perhaps a future patch will fix this as well. So far, have you ran into ANY recordings where the audio dropout issue did not stop after the first 30 seconds to a minute into the video???

MOST of my D-VHS archives are 5C flagged as well, but for the first 6 months or so (when the Firewire Motorolas first came out) everything was "unprotected". I spend so much time collecting movies that I will (probably) never watch, and yet here I am, adding to the "piles" of media. Every time I see a lot of posts from people wanting to know when "specific" big hit movies are coming out on Blu-Ray, it makes me feel good to know that I already have the ability to watch them on Blu-ray. I understand that in most cases these conversions will not be "as good", due to a lower bitrate encode, but it is really cool nonetheless. It took me LOTS of attempts and tweaks to figure out what worked best to do HD DVD conversions, and now I have those pretty much down-pat. Hopefully, Blu-Ray conversions will become as good/reliable in the near future...

Lee

[LeeB99]

UPDATE: I have come to the conclusion that ALL of the issues cited above MUST be attributed to the PS3. I have yet to test a burned disc in any of the regular "set top" players, but I suspect that the two issues (early audio dropouts and your receiver not properly flagging the audio as Dolby Digital) may/might not be present on standalone players.

If you put a BD that you have recorded into a PC and open the contents, you will find the "stream" folder under the root BDAV directory. Open it, and you will find the "M2TS" video stream file. If you compare it to the original .mpeg that was used to create the disc, it will be about 20 MB larger than the original video file. This pretty much confirms that the audio stream has not been altered. When you "double click" on this file, the Cyberlink "PowerDVD" BD edition will boot up to play the file and (surprise!) there will be NO audio glitches as seen on the PS3. And this is reading DIRECTLY from the disc that you have burned. This, for the most part, confirms to me that the issues are in the PS3's player. I will try and test a disc on some various set-top players (in some stores) and report my findings. I bet that they will be SHOCKED to see what's on my test disc... :)

Lee

[MozartMan]

Lee,

The only issue with PS3 right now for me is that it downconverts DD 5.1 to 2/0 when playing MPG files from XMB.
I think all other issues are with PowerProducer. I have suspicion that PowerProducer re-encoeds the audio

If you put a BD that you have recorded into a PC and open the contents, you will find the "stream" folder under the root BDAV directory. Open it, and you will find the "M2TS" video stream file. If you compare it to the original .mpeg that was used to create the disc, it will be about 20 MB larger than the original video file. This pretty much confirms that the audio stream has not been altered
You just said it yourself that M2TS file is 20MB larger. It means something was altered. And I think it is audio.

And I think that PowerProducer is crap. I just burn files on BD-RE as data disks and play them from XMB.

BTW, you can play files more than 4GB in size on PS3, but there are some issues with progress bar and navigation.

[LeeB99]

Mozart-

Based upon my experience with both burning .mpegs (in UMD format) to disc and viewing them in the media center (as you have described) AND in burning "BDAV" mode Blu-Ray discs, the audio "receiver flag" issue APPEARS to be exactly the same. This is why I believe that it is the PS3 and not the Power Producer software. If the Power Producer software was re-encoding the audio, it would take a LOT longer to burn the disc, but in reality it is "burning on the fly" for the most part if you pay attention to the burning process and what the drive is doing during the burn.

Re-Encoding usually adds a LOT of time to the conversion/burn and should "noticeably" change the file size. A 20MB difference on a 17GB video file is practically "nothing". And it is 20MB "larger", not smaller. One would think that if it were "downsampling" the audio stream that (at least) the file would be smaller, if anything. I think that ALL of the issues are PS3 related, and hopefully, I will be able to find out conclusively when I go test a disc on a set-top Blu-Ray player. We can also check this by playing a "Power Producer" burned BD disc in the Cyberlink PowerDVD BD edition software, to see if it recognizes the audio as 5.1 dobly digital. I haven't done this yet, but hopefully, this will give us some insight.

The issues that you mentioned with navigation are non-existent when you burn a "BDAV" (or "BDMV", I can't remember exactly) disc. You can even add chapter stops which (thankfully) do NOT effect playback in any way. I didn't notice any audio dropout issues when playing the regular .Mpegs in the media center, so perhaps if you don't mind the "navigation" issues, that might be the best way to go "for now". The other wierd thing that you will notice when playing a DD 5.1 mpeg (or BD-RE video for that matter) in the PS3 is that when you call up the "controls" menu and select the "i" (circled I) icon, you will notice that it shows in the upper right hand corner that it is INDEED multi channel audio. This is another reason why the PS3 is altering the audio output through the optical connector. IF I had a firewire compatible receiver, I would LOVE to check and see if the same thing is happening through that output as well...

Lee

[Marc D Carra]

Lee, it appears that your findings directly mirror mine when it comes to creating BD-RE discs.

Here’s what I’ve found:

I have taken a 17 gig MPEG2 file, that has a DD5.1 448k audio track and burned it onto a BD-RE using an LG Blu-Ray burner and Cyberlink Powerproducer 4 software. The disc plays back in PowerDVD with 5.1 audio, but when you play it in the PS3, it shows up as Dolby Digital Multichannel audio 48Khz @256MBps. It’s definitely an issue with the PS3 firmware, not the Powerproducer software. The disc DOES have a DD5.1 soundtrack, as verified by PowerDVD on my PC. I took the disc to a few local stores and it wouldn’t play on a Samsung or a Sony Blu-Ray player. I suspect the problem being the firmware on the store demo’s has not been updated. Samsung Blu-Ray players won’t recognize BD-RE discs unless the firmware has been updated.. Not certain about the Sony players. I can’t find a Panasonic player locally, but I’ve read that BD-RE’s WILL play on the Panny players.

So these are the key points I’ve learned in my Blu-Ray burning experiences:

1) Cyberlink PowerProducer 4 , with the latest patch, will produce BD-RE discs playable on the PS3

2) Cyberlink Powerproducer 4 does NOT re-encode the video or audio in any way. The original stream is left intact. I verified this by copying a chunk of the original file onto a USB key and playing it back it the PS3, making note of the bit-rate and peak level bit-rates during certain scenes. The original file is identical in bitrate to the BD-RE. No changes in bitrate or picture quality.

3) The PS3 thus far will NOT play back 5.1 audio from any home-made Blu-Ray, or media file.

4) The picture produced from a high-bitrate BD-RE is simply breathtaking.


So if we can get the 5.1 issue solved, we will definietly be set.


I’ve been splitting similar recordings to 2 or 3 DVDR9 discs authored to HD-DVD as well, but the convenience of having the whole darned thing on one Blu-Ray disc is well worth the extra effort!

Marc.

[Marc D Carra]

Lee,

The only issue with PS3 right now for me is that it downconverts DD 5.1 to 2/0 when playing MPG files from XMB.
I think all other issues are with PowerProducer. I have suspicion that PowerProducer re-encoeds the audio


You just said it yourself that M2TS file is 20MB larger. It means something was altered. And I think it is audio.

And I think that PowerProducer is crap. I just burn files on BD-RE as data disks and play them from XMB.

BTW, you can play files more than 4GB in size on PS3, but there are some issues with progress bar and navigation.


The 20mb file is simply the BD-RE disc structure and chapter information being written as well. The audio is NOT re-encoded. I have verified this by playing the BE-RE with Power DVD. The original 5.1 stream is still there, untouched. It's a PS3 issue , plain and simple.

Marc.

[Brajesh]

I haven't tested it, but does the latest v1.54 PS3 firmware resolve the 5.1 issue? This is my only gripe about the PS3.

[MozartMan]

I haven't tested it, but does the latest v1.54 PS3 firmware resolve the 5.1 issue? This is my only gripe about the PS3.
No, it doesn't.

I have PowerProducer 3.7. I will author BDAV on BD-RE disk tonight to see how DD 5.1 plays in PowerDVD 7.2 Ultra compare to PS3.

[plee]

No, it doesn't.

I have PowerProducer 3.7. I will author BDAV on BD-RE disk tonight to see how DD 5.1 plays in PowerDVD 7.2 Ultra compare to PS3.

I would recommend upgrading to PowerProducer 4.0 (I know it sucks to have to upgrade but there were too many issues with 3.7 for me).

I really don't used PP 4.0 much anymore since I got DVDit HD Pro, so far most of the authoring programs pretty much work great when they work and work bad and it's bad :mad: . Also, some players do not support \BDMV so until more players support this you may want to wait on DVDit HD. Pioneer, Panny, and Sammy with the original firmware support \BDMV so unless your using one of these stick to data disk for the PS3 or \BDAV for standalones...

[MozartMan]

Pioneer, Panny, and Sammy with the original firmware support \BDMV so unless your using one of these stick to data disk for the PS3 or \BDAV for standalones...
Yes, PS3 supports only data disks and \BDAV as of right now.
I hope Sony enables \BDMV support.

[Marc D Carra]

I would recommend upgrading to PowerProducer 4.0 (I know it sucks to have to upgrade but there were too many issues with 3.7 for me).

I really don't used PP 4.0 much anymore since I got DVDit HD Pro, ...


I've tried DVDit HD Pro, but everytime I give it an MPEG2 compliant file (1920x080i 29.997 frames per second) it insists on re-encoding the whole thing. 30 hours later it is ready for burn. When compared to PP4.0 , it's 30 seconds. So far, it's PP4.0 for me all the way. Getting curious about Ulead's DVD Movie Factory 6+ too. I used DVD MovieFactor 5 for all my HD-DVD needs but it didn't do Blu-Ray at the time. It looks like 6+ does. Would be nice if they had a trial on their site!

Marc.

[Nox]

UPDATE: I have come to the conclusion that ALL of the issues cited above MUST be attributed to the PS3. I have yet to test a burned disc in any of the regular "set top" players, but I suspect that the two issues (early audio dropouts and your receiver not properly flagging the audio as Dolby Digital) may/might not be present on standalone players.

Lee

Lee, if you don't have access to a stand alone player, take your disc into Best Buy or some other CE store and pop it in their Blu-ray player to see if it works.

[Marc D Carra]

Lee, if you don't have access to a stand alone player, take your disc into Best Buy or some other CE store and pop it in their Blu-ray player to see if it works.

Yep, thats what I did. Be prepared for the usual comments like "You have a Blu-ray burner? You must be rich!" and "You know, you can't make Blu-Ray disc on a regular DVD burner, right?" and "Just because you copy a movie to a blank Blu-Ray disc, doens't make it hi-def. You can't do that yet!" :p

It's an excruciating experience to say the least!

Marc.

[plee]

I've tried DVDit HD Pro, but everytime I give it an MPEG2 compliant file (1920x080i 29.997 frames per second) it insists on re-encoding the whole thing. 30 hours later it is ready for burn. When compared to PP4.0 , it's 30 seconds. So far, it's PP4.0 for me all the way. Getting curious about Ulead's DVD Movie Factory 6+ too. I used DVD MovieFactor 5 for all my HD-DVD needs but it didn't do Blu-Ray at the time. It looks like 6+ does. Would be nice if they had a trial on their site!

Marc.

I use a modified setting 1080i60VBR (increased the rate to 25mbps and highest quality) in the Premeire Encoder and it doesn't re-code but does re-encode the audio. Also, here is the settings for Compressor that DVDit will not re-encode. Might want to give them a try on your encoder...

File Extension: m2v
Video Encoder
Format: M2V
Width: 1920
Height: 1080
Pixel aspect ratio: square
Crop: None
Frame rate: 29.97
Frame Controls:
Retiming: Nearest Frame
Resize Filter: Linear Filter
Deinterlace Filter: Line Averaging
Adaptive Details: On
Antialias: 0
Detail Level: 0
Field Output: Same as Source
Aspect ratio: 16:9
Field dominance: Top first
Average data rate: 21.1 (Mbps)
1 Pass VBR enabled
Maximum data rate: 25 (Mbps)
High quality
Best motion estimation
Closed GOP Size: 15, Structure: IBBP

[rexdigital]

MODS, Please do make a blu-ray authoring sticky thread at the top.

It will be needed sooner or later.

I was just looking for one last week.

[jerseydiplomat]

Yep, thats what I did. Be prepared for the usual comments like "You have a Blu-ray burner? You must be rich!" and "You know, you can't make Blu-Ray disc on a regular DVD burner, right?" and "Just because you copy a movie to a blank Blu-Ray disc, doens't make it hi-def. You can't do that yet!" :p

It's an excruciating experience to say the least!

Marc.

i work at BB part time, and all i can say to that is wow just wow. my boss def just called me at my regular job to ask me a question a customer had too.

its interesting to hear the progress authoriting blu-ray disks

[LeeB99]

Yep, thats what I did. Be prepared for the usual comments like "You have a Blu-ray burner? You must be rich!" and "You know, you can't make Blu-Ray disc on a regular DVD burner, right?" and "Just because you copy a movie to a blank Blu-Ray disc, doens't make it hi-def. You can't do that yet!" :p

It's an excruciating experience to say the least!

Marc.


That's HILARIOUS! I just love freaking people out with stuff like this. It's funny how many people are out there that don't know what is possible. I am going to hit my local Tweeter (who retails/stocks the "lower end" of high-end equipment brands -but can order you "the good stuff") and the Best Buy to see if I can test my high bitrate burn of "Episode 5". Perhaps between the two of them I will be able to find a set-top player that runs the disc without any issues. My best bet for checking the Dolby 5.1 output will DEFINITELY be Tweeter, as they have a better equipment selection, and will most likely have their Blu-Ray demo units hooked up to something decent...

Lee

[MozartMan]

Here is my authoring and burning test with PowerProducer 3.7 (patched) that came with Sony BD burner at work.
I use it at home with my LiteOn BD burner because that version that came with LiteOn is even worth.

1. FILE.

I took 1GB HD .TS file that I recorded from Motorola HD DVR to my PC via firewire. File has original broadcast quality 1920x1080 video and DD 5.1 at 384 Kbps audio. I converted this file to HD PS .MPG file because PowerProducer 3.7 doesn't recognize .TS files.


2. AUTHORING AND BURNING.

It took 22 minutes to just burn BDAV compilation on BD-RE disk, which kind of very long time for 1 GB.


3. PLAYBACK

1) Playback of M2TS file directly from the STREAM folder from BD-RE disk.

a) NERO ShowTime 3.5.3.2 - plays back in 5.1 surround sound, but information shows that it is 2.0 channels at 256 Kbps.
b) PowerDVD 7.2 Ultra BD Edition - plays back in 2.0 stereo and information shows that it is 2.0 channels at 256 Kbps.


2) Playback of BDAV disk.

a) NERO ShowTime 3.5.3.2 - "Missing features: BDAV playback" message.
b) PowerDVD 7.2 Ultra BD Edition - plays back in 2.0 stereo and information shows that it is 2.0 channels at 256 Kbps.
c) PS3 - display shows that it is MultiChannel Auddio, but plays in 2.0 stereo (knows PS3 issue)


SO, I guess, PowerProducer 3.7 (even patched) screwing up the headers (or whatever it is) of the DD 5.1 audio track during authoring and burning.

Now, guys, convince me if PowerProducer 4 works any better, and if it worth upgrading, and how much is upgrade if it is worth it.

[Marc D Carra]

That's HILARIOUS! I just love freaking people out with stuff like this. It's funny how many people are out there that don't know what is possible. I am going to hit my local Tweeter (who retails/stocks the "lower end" of high-end equipment brands -but can order you "the good stuff") and the Best Buy to see if I can test my high bitrate burn of "Episode 5". Perhaps between the two of them I will be able to find a set-top player that runs the disc without any issues. My best bet for checking the Dolby 5.1 output will DEFINITELY be Tweeter, as they have a better equipment selection, and will most likely have their Blu-Ray demo units hooked up to something decent...

Lee

Lee, let me know what you find out. Or to put it more into the context of things, "Help me Lee, you're my only hope" **insert hologram here** :D


Marc.

[LeeB99]

Well, I went to "Tweeter" and tested my BD-RE of Episode 5. Once I got there, I realized PRETTY QUICKLY that I should have (at least) went ahead and burned the same information on to a -R disc. They had FOUR Blu-Ray players:

Pioneer
Sony
Panasonic
Samsung

The Pioneer was "dead", so I couldn't test it. The manager told me that he was supposed to ship it back to get a replacement demo unit. This is unfortunate, as Pioneer makes some really good stuff, and I would have expected more from them. The first player up was the Samsung. After inserting the disc, it went into "forever load", which basically locked up the player. We had to unplug it from the outlet to do a hard reset, just to eject my disc once the power was restored.
Next up was the Sony. I EXPECTED it to work, as I figured that they MUST be using the same basic drive as the PS3. If the issue was with the drive not being able to read -RE discs, then one must assume that the Sony would surely work. It didn't. The display said somthing like "Can't Load" or some other similar crap.
The final test was on the Panasonic. It was the one unit that came "closest" to working. It recognized the disc as a Blu-Ray video, and LOOKED like it was going to play. Then it stopped. No luck.

So, I was 0 for 3 with the -RE disc. When I got home, I made a -R disc of the same content, and I will return to re-test with that disc. So, for now, it would appear that the PS3 IS the best option for Blu-Ray and playback of material on "burned" media. After seeing these other dedicated players in action (or lack therof), it made me wonder quite strongly why ANYONE would choose a "set top" player over the PS3, as the PS3 looks to be a better "everything" than the dedicated players. The boot times ALONE make the PS3 seem "far more" capable than the other units.

I suppose that whether you prefer to just burn the .mpeg to the disc and play it in the media center (without good navigation capabilities) or to burn it as a "BDAV" (with good navigation but possible audio problems in the first minute or so of the video files) it is ENTIRELY up to you. I can see how many people would want to just burn the .mpegs to the disc for the conveinence of:

1. Archiving the .mpegs to a removeable media without "converting" it to a M2TS stream (in a Blu-Ray burn that MIGHT not be compatible with a variety of hardware)
2. Eliminates the previously mentioned audio glitches (which I think should not be present) when viewing the .mpegs in the PS3 media center.
3. The only drawback that I KNOW of is poor/no navigation once you get past a certain point in the videos.

If the Audio output is indeed IDENTICAL in both the media center AND the "Blu-Ray BDAV" mode, then this would be ANOTHER argument for simply burning the raw .mpegs to the disc to both archive AND use on the PS3. Right now, I am burning some raw Mpegs to a BD-RE just to see how I like it compared to a "BDAV" compilation. I think that playback and audio (based upon my past testing) is pretty much the same. And when you load a "BDAV" disc into the PS3, you don't get a menu or anything, it looks pretty much like what you see when you are playing something from the media center.

Mozart- I don't know what the issue is with your burner, but the times that you are indicating to burn "small amounts" of information sounds really out of hand. I was having a similar issue with an external Sony dual layer burner on my computer, and I was able to resolve it be updating the USB drivers to my motherboard. It made a SUBSTANTIAL improvement, and made my maximum burn speeds FOUR TIMES faster. If you are using onboard USB or even an add-on card, you might want to try finding new 2.0 drivers...

Lee

[plee]

Well, I went to "Tweeter" and tested my BD-RE of Episode 5. Once I got there, I realized PRETTY QUICKLY that I should have (at least) went ahead and burned the same information on to a -R disc. They had FOUR Blu-Ray players:

Pioneer
Sony
Panasonic
Samsung

The Pioneer was "dead", so I couldn't test it. The manager told me that he was supposed to ship it back to get a replacement demo unit. This is unfortunate, as Pioneer makes some really good stuff, and I would have expected more from them. The first player up was the Samsung. After inserting the disc, it went into "forever load", which basically locked up the player. We had to unplug it from the outlet to do a hard reset, just to eject my disc once the power was restored.
Next up was the Sony. I EXPECTED it to work, as I figured that they MUST be using the same basic drive as the PS3. If the issue was with the drive not being able to read -RE discs, then one must assume that the Sony would surely work. It didn't. The display said somthing like "Can't Load" or some other similar crap.
The final test was on the Panasonic. It was the one unit that came "closest" to working. It recognized the disc as a Blu-Ray video, and LOOKED like it was going to play. Then it stopped. No luck.

So, I was 0 for 3 with the -RE disc. When I got home, I made a -R disc of the same content, and I will return to re-test with that disc. So, for now, it would appear that the PS3 IS the best option for Blu-Ray and playback of material on "burned" media. After seeing these other dedicated players in action (or lack therof), it made me wonder quite strongly why ANYONE would choose a "set top" player over the PS3, as the PS3 looks to be a better "everything" than the dedicated players. The boot times ALONE make the PS3 seem "far more" capable than the other units.

I suppose that whether you prefer to just burn the .mpeg to the disc and play it in the media center (without good navigation capabilities) or to burn it as a "BDAV" (with good navigation but possible audio problems in the first minute or so of the video files) it is ENTIRELY up to you. I can see how many people would want to just burn the .mpegs to the disc for the conveinence of:

1. Archiving the .mpegs to a removeable media without "converting" it to a M2TS stream (in a Blu-Ray burn that MIGHT not be compatible with a variety of hardware)
2. Eliminates the previously mentioned audio glitches (which I think should not be present) when viewing the .mpegs in the PS3 media center.
3. The only drawback that I KNOW of is poor/no navigation once you get past a certain point in the videos.

If the Audio output is indeed IDENTICAL in both the media center AND the "Blu-Ray BDAV" mode, then this would be ANOTHER argument for simply burning the raw .mpegs to the disc to both archive AND use on the PS3. Right now, I am burning some raw Mpegs to a BD-RE just to see how I like it compared to a "BDAV" compilation. I think that playback and audio (based upon my past testing) is pretty much the same. And when you load a "BDAV" disc into the PS3, you don't get a menu or anything, it looks pretty much like what you see when you are playing something from the media center.

Mozart- I don't know what the issue is with your burner, but the times that you are indicating to burn "small amounts" of information sounds really out of hand. I was having a similar issue with an external Sony dual layer burner on my computer, and I was able to resolve it be updating the USB drivers to my motherboard. It made a SUBSTANTIAL improvement, and made my maximum burn speeds FOUR TIMES faster. If you are using onboard USB or even an add-on card, you might want to try finding new 2.0 drivers...

Lee

If you know your gonna use the PS3 as a playback then a data disk with just the .mpg's will be fine. However, there is a bug (on somebody's end), that when you do file info (TRIANGLE button during playback), you will notice that it video length may not be correct, so if you RR/FF and go beyond that point the PS3 will start choking and if you press PLAY it will return to the spot it thinks your video ends, kinda annoying... :rolleyes:

[MozartMan]

Mozart- I don't know what the issue is with your burner, but the times that you are indicating to burn "small amounts" of information sounds really out of hand. I was having a similar issue with an external Sony dual layer burner on my computer, and I was able to resolve it be updating the USB drivers to my motherboard. It made a SUBSTANTIAL improvement, and made my maximum burn speeds FOUR TIMES faster. If you are using onboard USB or even an add-on card, you might want to try finding new 2.0 drivers...

Lee
Lee,

I don't think that the issue is with my burner. It is LiteOn Blu-ray SATA drive.
When I burn BD data disk of my D hard drive as backup with 22 GB of data using Nero 7 it only takes 42 minutes to burn.

Nero 7 - 22 GB - 42 minutes
ImgBurn - 22 GB - 41 minute
PowerProducer - 1 GB - 22 minutes

You see, something is wrong with PowerProducer.

[plee]

Here is my authoring and burning test with PowerProducer 3.7 (patched) that came with Sony BD burner at work.
I use it at home with my LiteOn BD burner because that version that came with LiteOn is even worth.

1. FILE.

I took 1GB HD .TS file that I recorded from Motorola HD DVR to my PC via firewire. File has original broadcast quality 1920x1080 video and DD 5.1 at 384 Kbps audio. I converted this file to HD PS .MPG file because PowerProducer 3.7 doesn't recognize .TS files.


2. AUTHORING AND BURNING.

It took 22 minutes to just burn BDAV compilation on BD-RE disk, which kind of very long time for 1 GB.


3. PLAYBACK

1) Playback of M2TS file directly from the STREAM folder from BD-RE disk.

a) NERO ShowTime 3.5.3.2 - plays back in 5.1 surround sound, but information shows that it is 2.0 channels at 256 Kbps.
b) PowerDVD 7.2 Ultra BD Edition - plays back in 2.0 stereo and information shows that it is 2.0 channels at 256 Kbps.


2) Playback of BDAV disk.

a) NERO ShowTime 3.5.3.2 - "Missing features: BDAV playback" message.
b) PowerDVD 7.2 Ultra BD Edition - plays back in 2.0 stereo and information shows that it is 2.0 channels at 256 Kbps.
c) PS3 - display shows that it is MultiChannel Auddio, but plays in 2.0 stereo (knows PS3 issue)


SO, I guess, PowerProducer 3.7 (even patched) screwing up the headers (or whatever it is) of the DD 5.1 audio track during authoring and burning.

Now, guys, convince me if PowerProducer 4 works any better, and if it worth upgrading, and how much is upgrade if it is worth it.

I can't guarantee PP 4.0 will be better but I know 3.7 is more or less an OEM version and 4.0 fixed my problems with chapter stops on the PS3. It was $50 for the upgrade. Still cheaper than DVDit HD Pro and less bugs :rolleyes:

[LeeB99]

You know, the really funny thing is that my results are quite different than yours. While I was typing the above "test report" I have been burning some .mpegs to a -RE disc using the "Power2Go" software (not the power producer), and it would appear that my burning time with this software is SUBSTANTIALLY slower than the "on the fly" burning of Power Producer. According to the burn rate, it has been going for an hour and 12 minutes, and it is only 73% done. Now, this is to TOTALLY fill up the disc with 2 movies, but it would appear that it is taking AT LEAST twice as long as it would have for me normally in Power Producer. Very Strange. I need to get my NERO updated to Blu-Ray burning support...


Plee- Did going to version 4 of Power Producer make ANY difference in the audio dropouts that I (and others) have been experiencing on the PS3 with the BDAV movie discs? If so, then that it really my ONLY gripe at this point, and I would GLADLY pay the $39.95 upcharge to eliminate that issue. And by the way, I have had NO chapter stop issues with 3.7 on my PS3...

Lee

[Marc D Carra]

Thanks for making such an effort Lee! So it looks like I'm going to burn the raw MPEG2's to BDRE for now. Worse comes to worse, I can stream them from my Blu-Ray drive in the PC to my XBOX360, and get 5.1 audio output. Thre's no reason the PS3 won't be able to do it in the near future. For now that seems like the best way of doing things. That way our BD-RE's will act as an archive and a playback medium.

Marc.

[LeeB99]

After doing some more testing, I have pretty much come to the conclusion that burning "HD DVD" compatible discs on dual layer DVD's IS "better" at this point than burning PS3 compatible Blu-Ray discs, with the exception of the fact that the Blu-Ray discs will allow you to burn "large files" without splitting them up. If you don't mind swapping discs, the navigation, audio and cost favors converting files to HD DVD format. This could all change, however, if only Sony would update the PS3 firmware to fix the audio output issue and whatever is causing audio "dropouts" at the beginning of the videos. I THINK that since this dropout issue only seems to be noticeable at the beginning of videos due to the fact that the sound "completely goes away" during the intros of movies, as the different studio information is displayed before the feature. Perhaps the PS3 is programmed to drop the sound output when there is a total lack of audio signal??? I can visually SEE the audio signal getting "turned off" to my receiver (from the PS3) when the audio drops out, so this means that the PS3 is momentarily CUTTING OFF the audio output to the receiver when this happens.

You know, Sony can fix all of this REALLY EASY with a firmware upgrade. They are updating the PS3 firmware quite frequently, and one can only assume that they will fix this in the near future. Perhaps we should all send them an e-mail asking to fix these issues in a future update?

I tried burning a 720p video in Power Producer, and it tried to re-encode it. So 720p with Power Producer 3 is not a good option. I also burned the raw .mpegs to a -RE disc to play in the "media center", and when I selected them, they would not play and the PS3 reported them as "The data is corrupt". Do you guys have any suggestions as to how I can test these videos in raw .mpg format in the media center? I had done this before in the past with a 720p file, and it worked. I had used NERO to burn that to a "regular" DVD. On this test disc, I burned it with the "2go" program, so perhaps that was the issue. I now have a -R copy of a movie that I will be going back to "Tweeter" with, and I will try it on the three previously mentioned set-top players...

Lee

[LeeB99]

I have some VERY interesting news to report...

I took a BD-R recording of the SAME material (as tested before on BD-RE) back to "Tweeter", and finally got some RESULTS.

It must be noted that I was using a VERBATIM BD-R disc for this test, and I have NO IDEA whether or not the Sony BD-R media will produce the same results. I have some Sony media to test, and I will report what happens with those BD-R's as well. The reason why I tried Verbatim first is because it is well known that their Dual Layer DVD recordables are among the most compatible with a wide variety of set-top DVD players. I had ONE Verbatim and "several" Sony -R's, but I decided to try the Verbatim first. And here are the results...

Sony set-top Player: Same result as BD-RE ("Can't Play" on display)
Panasonic set-top Player: Same result as BD-RE (tries to load, recognizes and then say "incompatible")
Samsung BD-P1000: WORKS!

This was quite surprising (again), as one would EXPECT that AT LEAST the Sony would be compatible. Now for the interesting details. Similar, but NOT THE SAME as the PS3, there was a small audio issue at the beginning of the disc. What makes this so strange is that the dropout (or lack of audio) on the Samsung was that no audio was output during the first 11 seconds of the disc. The means that the audio "kicked in" during the middle of the "Lucasfilm" logo. In contrast, when watching the SAME disc on a PS3, the audio starts immediately at the beginning of the disc, cuts out near the end of the "Fox" intro and then resumes (permanently) at the tail end of the "Lucasfilm" logo. Given the fact that both units had DIFFERENT audio dropouts, one can only guess as to how this could be fixed or even narrowed down to one particular issue.

Once the audio started, there were no other observed audio related issues. I was able to navigate the disc without any issues, and playback was as expected. It was really neat watching this movie in 1080p @ 25Mbps on a Pioneer 1080p plasma! The employees at the store were somewhat baffled at this accomplishment, and then requested that I bring them back another "test disc".

Unfortunately, this display had only the BD player hooked up directly to the monitor through HDMI. The "information" buttons on the remote controller for the player did not allow me to access any audio stream information, and since the player was NOT hooked up to a multi-channel receiver, I was unable to determine if the output from the player's digital audio output was truly "dolby digital".

So, there you have it. If you want to watched Blu-Ray discs that you have burned yourself with HD material on a set-top player, you will need to use the Samsung BD-P1000, and for GUARANTEED playback (until other media is properly tested), you will need to use the Verbatim brand BD-R's. (Got mine at Best Buy). Hope this is helpful information for all...

Lee

[Nox]

Maybe Sony doesn't want them to work in their players. Whether people are only making home movies of their vacations doesn't matter. Making discs is still a step towards pirating their movies.

[Li On]

Hi Lee,

Thanks for all the effort and sharing. I'm also very interested on the subject.

In Japan, there are a few all-in-one blu-ray players with OTA/Sat HDTV receiver (Japanese system) and internal HDD etc. The machine records broadcast HDTV to internal hdd then burn on blu-ray R/RE. The resulting blu-ray R/RE plays like a normal blu-ray movie disc on other blu-ray playback only player.

I have tons of TS content recorded from the Japanese Sat HDTV channel. Video is the common 1080i MPEG2 though their bitrate is very high at around 20mbps. Audio is in AAC (instead of DD). I want to test if these captured TS content can be burn on blu-ray and playback on a standalone blu-ray player.

If you can help me to test, I can put up a clip for you to download and try.

Thanks in advance.

regards,

Li On

[MozartMan]

Li On,

I am interested too.

[rexdigital]

Is anybody here using DVDit Pro HD?

I've heard its got its share of bugs, but once you have successfully made your first disc it all works from then on.

I would like to know how compatible the discs are it makes for set top playback,because roxio is branding it as the be all end all of blu-ray home authoring.

if thats true, the blu-ray discs burned and authored from it should work on everything unless the manufacturer has faultered on playback specs.

[LeeB99]

You know, within the last day or so, I have encountered something quite strange. Similar to what Mozart has previously reported, my burning speeds in the Cyberlink Director software has gone COMPLETELY down the tubes. In the beginning, I was able to burn an entire 25 GB BD-RE disc in around 40-45 minutes. Now, with the SAME DISC, it is taking HOURS to burn. The way it is acting, I can fully understand why Mozart was under the impression that the software was re-encoding the video.
I do not know if this is something that happens with a BD-RE after you have burned to it more than once, or if there is some other unknown reason. I find this very frustrating and difficult to understand, as I was (previously) VERY pleased with the speed in which I could burn an entire disc. I have checked all of the settings, and nothing really seems to have changed. Anyone have any ideas???

Li On- I would be happy to help you, but what you are asking would mean that I would be burning a small amount of information to a 25 Gb write-once disc. We already know that the set top boxes do not appear to be compatible with the -RE discs, so testing one of those with your material would only confirm what we already know. I am interested in helping, but what might make the most sense (initailly) would be for me to test your video file on a -RE disc and see if it works on a PS3. This way, we would at least know that the AAC audio is properly "utilized" or "converted" with the Cyberlink software...

Lee

[Li On]

Yes, I mean on a -RE since I also have the PS3. Will PM you a link of test clip later. Thanks in advance.

regards,

Li On

[LeeB99]

I have discovered the answer to the "slow burns" that I (and Mozart) have previously referred to. As it turns out, I can put a BD-R (write once) disc into my burner and record a video file with Power Producer at FULL burn speed (2X). This means that a "new" or "unburned" disc will burn at FULL SPEED, and a "full" 25GB disc will take anywhere between 40 minutes to an hour to complete. Additionally, burning a -R disc (in power producer) will allow you to burn MORE DATA than the -RE discs will. I was able to fit two entire movies on one disc on a -R that WOULD NOT fit (at least the software wouldn't let me burn it) on a -RE disc.

From my memory, the -RE discs burned EVERY BIT as fast as the -R's do the first time that I burned them. Aparently, the software will not burn a -RE disc at "full speed" once it has already been written to. This MIGHT be software related, and might not be an issue in "Nero", as I have seen the SAME media burn at different speeds using different software in the past (with DVD dual layer media).

When a BD-R (or fresh -RE for that matter) is burning at full speed, you can visually watch the packets being written to the disc, by observing the blinking green "access" light on the drive. A packet (at 2X speed) will get written approximately twice per second, and the duration of each write appears to take place in an even interval (a burn duration of about 1/4 to 1/3 second). When burning a "used" -RE, it appears that the packets are written only once every several seconds, and the duration of the burn takes 2-3 times as long per packet versus a "first time" burn. All it took was for me to start "burning some -R's" to realize this. I even tried doing a "complete erase" on a -RE disc (instead of a "quick erase"), and that did not seem to speed up the writes to the disc.

UPDATED: I have 2 -RE discs, and after doing multiple burning tests with both of them, it would appear that one burns at "normal" speed while the other is EXTREMELY slow. It takes something like 6 hours to burn a video. Once it is done, however, the disc is "properly" burned. I think that the disc must be defective, because 6 hours is just plain ridiculous.

Now that I have burned some video to some Sony -R discs, I will try and do some set-top testing this weekend. I will post my results...

Lee

[rexdigital]

I just got a reply back from one of the guys that works at sonic about DVDit! PRO HD's BD-RE set top playback compatability, thought you guys might find it interesting:

"We use BD-RE's for testing all the time. It is the smart way to do it at this nascent stage of the game where writables are expensive. You can have successful playback with the Panasonic BD player, Pioneer and unmodified Samsung BD player (original firmware). Probably PowerDVD BD as well.

The PS3 will not currently play BDMV discs (Blu-ray movie mode discs on writables). I believe that will change with one of their future firmware updates."

[plee]

Is anybody here using DVDit Pro HD?

I've heard its got its share of bugs, but once you have successfully made your first disc it all works from then on.

I would like to know how compatible the discs are it makes for set top playback,because roxio is branding it as the be all end all of blu-ray home authoring.

if thats true, the blu-ray discs burned and authored from it should work on everything unless the manufacturer has faultered on playback specs.

I sort of use it... I can say this when it works it works and when it doesn't it's pretty bad. One of the annoying bugs is an End Of File error when DVDit demuxes a .mpg file and I found a workaround by just using elementary streams :rolleyes: Once you find out the .mpg encoding settings to use and what to things to avoid it does a pretty decent job.

And yes there are only 3 known stand alone players able to play \BDMV so hopefully this will increase. Otherwise, DVDit HD is worthless for the average consumer.

[LeeB99]

NEW COMPATABILITY REPORT!!!

I just went back to Tweeter today, as it was close to the Moviestop where I pre-bought Casino Royale. I tried two different Sony BD-R discs. One of them had a LARGE movie file that took up the entire 25GB disc, and on the other, I was able to manage to put 2 different titles on it. As with my previous testing with the Verbatim BD-R discs, only the Samsung BD-P1000 player was able to play the discs. The Sony and Panasonics were not able to play the recordings.

Interestingly enough, the first time that I put the BD-R with two shows on it into the Samsung, it ejected after several seconds and said "can not play" on the screen. I re-inserted it, and it played fine. I was able to use the "skip" arrow to jump to the second video. Everything seemed to work fine. Unfortunately (as before), I was unable to "hear" the videos, as no speakers were hooked up, but I can only imagine that there MUST have probably been some minor audio dropouts present in the first 10 or so seconds of the beginning of each video. ...As previously noted.

So, for now, BD-R's from both Verbatim and Sony work in the Samsung BD-P1000 player ONLY when burned with "Power Producer" using a 1920 X 1080 mpeg video source. The Playstation 3, however, plays both the BD-R and -RE discs with two minor issues. 1) Audio dropouts exist (as with the set top unit) at the very beginning of each video, but appear to go away early on and do not come back. 2) Dolby Digital 5.1 audio appears to be properly recognized by the PS3, but the hardware "downmixes" the audio output through the optical output so that your receiver sees it as a "Dolby 2.0" signal. I do not have any way to check the HDMI output to see if it is passing along the 5.1 audio stream "untouched", because I have a $5,000 amplifier that is only about 3 years old, and I HATE having manufacturers force new standards on me...

Lee

[Phloyd]

I have been playing around for some time with various tools and can confirm the following:

The Panasonic player will play DVDR, DVDR DL and BD-RE media burned with BDMV format - this is the format generated by DVDit Pro HD for example.

I have noticed that there may be issues with higher bandwidth files on DVD media... I have not studied that in detail but I have seen signs of it. Material below 20 Mbps should be fine.

As noted by others the PS3 will not play these discs. I hope that is fixed!

I do also hope to create some BDAV discs with the software provided with the Sony drive. I have not gone there yet. I expect the opposite compatibility - Panasonic will fail but PS3 will work with BDAV.

I hope that we do see everything move towards BDMV...

In other news, I have some compatibility with the DVDit HD tool for different broadcast stations. Let me know if there is interest and I will post that information here.

[plee]

I have been playing around for some time with various tools and can confirm the following:

The Panasonic player will play DVDR, DVDR DL and BD-RE media burned with BDMV format - this is the format generated by DVDit Pro HD for example.

I have noticed that there may be issues with higher bandwidth files on DVD media... I have not studied that in detail but I have seen signs of it. Material below 20 Mbps should be fine.

As noted by others the PS3 will not play these discs. I hope that is fixed!

I do also hope to create some BDAV discs with the software provided with the Sony drive. I have not gone there yet. I expect the opposite compatibility - Panasonic will fail but PS3 will work with BDAV.

I hope that we do see everything move towards BDMV...

In other news, I have some compatibility with the DVDit HD tool for different broadcast stations. Let me know if there is interest and I will post that information here.

The new firmware for the Sony BDP-S1 now has \BDMV enabled so let's hope that it will come on the next PS3 update.

[LeeB99]

Yeah, and hopefully, they will fix the two known audio issues while they are at it (drop outs at the beginning of the video files and downsampling the output through the optical out)...

Lee

[plee]

Yeah, and hopefully, they will fix the two known audio issues while they are at it (drop outs at the beginning of the video files and downsampling the output through the optical out)...

Lee

Are you using PowerProducer 4.0? I don't seem to have the dropout problems, you have mentioned.

[MozartMan]

Yeah, and hopefully, they will fix the two known audio issues while they are at it (drop outs at the beginning of the video files and downsampling the output through the optical out)...

Lee
I used PowerProducer 3.7 (patched) to create BDAV on BD-RE and I didn't have audio drop outs when played on PS3.

[Brajesh]

If Sony fixes the 5.1-to-2.1 audio downmix issue w/the PS3, I'd simply drop my HD MPGs onto DVD+R DLs & BD-R/REs w/o authoring. I can live w/o menus or chapters.

[MozartMan]

If Sony fixes the 5.1-to-2.1 audio downmix issue w/the PS3, I'd simply drop my HD MPGs onto DVD+R DLs & BD-R/REs w/o authoring. I can live w/o menus or chapters.
Completely agree with you. PowerProducer is crap.

[Phloyd]

Ok, caught up with you guys somewhat.

I now have PowerProducer (who names these things!) making a BDAV image that is playable on PS3.

It probably has all the same issues that you have/had.

I used a segment captured from HDNet and it seems to be fine.

I will try some more experiments this weekend to see if we can work around needing PowerProducer.

[UxiSXRD]

I'm watching this with great interest. I've had my own ideas on putting my own "backup" edits of the favorite trilogies together (Star Wars prequels on one disc, original trilogy on another, LOTR EE's to one disc, etc). If/when I see this is stable I'll get a BD burner, the appropriate software, and a standalone, but I know I'd end up burning coasters or getting frustrated if I jump in before it's ready.

The PS3 would be my preferred playback device, so hopefully they'll add BDMV compatibility in the next firmware update or two.... Hopefully this time next year, I'll be burning my own BD's...

[LeeB99]

The audio "dropout" problem only occurs during the intro of a movie, and once the "show" begins, there are no more dropouts. I saw this BOTH on the PS3 and the Samsung BD-P1000 player. Using the SAME DISC, both of them had an audio issue in the beginning, but here is the REAL kicker: The dropout was different on each player. On the PS3, the dropouts SEEMED to have to do with the transition between each of the "studio" logo intros. It is almost as if the PS3 completely "cut off" the audio output to the receiver whenever there was a segment with "no audio information", like when there is silence between the studio intros. The "dropout" experienced with the Samsung lasted through the first 11 seconds of the recording, which showed NO similarity to the PS3 issue, other than the fact that there was a "loss of audio" at the beginning of playback.

I am using the same "patched" Power Producer 3.7 as many others. Do not be afraid to "pull the trigger" on getting into burning these discs, particularly if you are using a PS3 and want to use -RE media. The ONLY downside at this point (once the show starts) is the "downconverted" audio output that the PS3 does to the sound, but realistically, it still sounds "good" and your receiver will decode it where it sounds like a 5.1 mix. At least it does on my Denon 5803. The "audio dropout" issue is DEFINITELY in the playback hardware, as I can take the exact same disc and play it on the Blu-Ray player in my PC, and there are NO audio dropouts present...

Lee

[Neo1965]

I have been playing around for some time with various tools and can confirm the following:

The Panasonic player will play DVDR, DVDR DL and BD-RE media burned with BDMV format - this is the format generated by DVDit Pro HD for example.

I have noticed that there may be issues with higher bandwidth files on DVD media... I have not studied that in detail but I have seen signs of it. Material below 20 Mbps should be fine.

As noted by others the PS3 will not play these discs. I hope that is fixed!

I do also hope to create some BDAV discs with the software provided with the Sony drive. I have not gone there yet. I expect the opposite compatibility - Panasonic will fail but PS3 will work with BDAV.

I hope that we do see everything move towards BDMV...

In other news, I have some compatibility with the DVDit HD tool for different broadcast stations. Let me know if there is interest and I will post that information here.

The PS3 will play BDMV on DVD/R, just not on BD-RE (at least not current firmware). It does play BDAV on BD-RE/R though.

[Li On]

Then how to make BDMV on DVDR (or DVD-RW?) Any free (or cheap) tool for that? Thanks in advance.

regards,

Li On

[Marc D Carra]

The PS3 will play BDMV on DVD/R, just not on BD-RE (at least not current firmware). It does play BDAV on BD-RE/R though.

So you can author a BDMV onto a regular DVD/R or dual layered DVD/R for playback on the PS3? Just like we have been doing with homebrew HD-DVDs? I wasn't aware the PS3 would play them! I'll have to try it tonight!


Marc.

[kingsmoit]

Question for some people actually burning these:

Do they scratch easy?

I don't imagine that the ones we'd burn have the protective coating on them, and given all the horror stories people were spreading about how easy blu-ray would scratch, I am worried about the burnable media. (Not really an issue yet since I'm not going to by a burner until the media costs less than a movie, but would be good to know :) )

[Neo1965]

So you can author a BDMV onto a regular DVD/R or dual layered DVD/R for playback on the PS3? Just like we have been doing with homebrew HD-DVDs? I wasn't aware the PS3 would play them! I'll have to try it tonight!


Marc.
The apps won't let you do it. But if you have a version that will create an ISO and then burn the ISO over, it will work as long as the size fits. I haven't tried the DL DVD/R, but single layer DVD works.

---

The BD-RE and BD-Rs that I use from philips, sony, TDK, Fuji are tough and essentially scratch proof, I don't use steel wool, but with normal usage, I seriously doubt they will fail..

[Marc D Carra]

The apps won't let you do it. But if you have a version that will create an ISO and then burn the ISO over, it will work as long as the size fits. I haven't tried the DL DVD/R, but single layer DVD works.




Yes, DVD it Pro will make an ISO, but I've never bothered trying to burn the ISO to a DVDR becuase I figured the PS3 wouldn't recognize it anyway. If this works, it's a HUGE step. My BDAV's look incredible on the PS3 but the media is so darned expensive. I just authored a Discovery HD recording called 'The Beauty of Snakes' to BDAV and it is, bar none, the most detailed HD program I have ever watched. Even better than my Discovery Atlas discs I purchased last month. Breathtaking color and detail! All in MPEG2 to boot.


MODS: If HD-DVD authoring gets a Sticky, so should this thread!!!!

Marc.

[Marc D Carra]

Neo1965, which software did you use to burn the Blu-Ray ISO image to DVDR?

I tried making an ISO image using DVD it HD pro and then using Nero 7, I burned the image to a DVDR. The PS3 recognized the DVDR as a data disc and it wouldn't play. What am I doing wrong?

Marc.

[LeeB99]

Personally, I see NO appeal in burning "DVD" discs for playback on PS3 or Blu-Ray set-top players. The A1 HD DVD player does that just fine. The appeal to burning Blu-Ray discs (for me) is to be able to use ONE single layer disc to hold a movie that would take up THREE dual layer DVD's. EVERY HD DVD conversion that I have done to date has required me to, at the very least, use one dual layer disc (for the first 1:40 to 2:00) and a second single layer DVD for the remaining content. In some cases, I have had to use TWO dual layer discs. If you were doing a LOTR conversion, it would take up AT LEAST 3 dual layer discs. Changing discs "once" during viewing is one thing, but twice or more just isn't appealing to me...

Lee

[Marc D Carra]

Personally, I see NO appeal in burning "DVD" discs for playback on PS3 or Blu-Ray set-top players. The A1 HD DVD player does that just fine. The appeal to burning Blu-Ray discs (for me) is to be able to use ONE single layer disc to hold a movie that would take up THREE dual layer DVD's. EVERY HD DVD conversion that I have done to date has required me to, at the very least, use one dual layer disc (for the first 1:40 to 2:00) and a second single layer DVD for the remaining content. In some cases, I have had to use TWO dual layer discs. If you were doing a LOTR conversion, it would take up AT LEAST 3 dual layer discs. Changing discs "once" during viewing is one thing, but twice or more just isn't appealing to me...

Lee


Lee, the appeal to me is that in an a/b picture comparision the same Mpeg2 file on the PS3 looks better than on my Toshiba HD-A1. Better color and detail. Both are hooked up via HDMI. I've compared several movies and discovery HD videos and the PS3 looks better everytime. So if I must burn to DVDR, I'd rather play it back on the PS3. I guess I can just burn it as an Mpeg2 file for now, but an authored BDMV would be nicer.

Many authored HD-DVDs I have done fit on 1 dual layered DVDR. Most of them are either discovery HD type stuff or shorter movies like 'The Incredibles', but many of my recordings fit on a DVDR9 without any changes to the original file. So disk swapping isn't really an issue with them.

Marc.

[SS Scott]

burn an ISO image with DVDit Pro HD. Then go to "Burn Disc" and select DVD as the disc type and select "from image" rather than from current project. Select your BD ISO and click OK.

Works in the Panny. sounds like it works in the PS3. Wonder if it works in the Sony BD player.

[Marc D Carra]

burn an ISO image with DVDit Pro HD. Then go to "Burn Disc" and select DVD as the disc type and select "from image" rather than from current project. Select your BD ISO and click OK.

Works in the Panny. sounds like it works in the PS3. Wonder if it works in the Sony BD player.

Awesome! Thanks! Looking forward to trying this after work

Marc.

[LeeB99]

From my testing, I kind of doubt that the Sony will play it. That is, of course, unless the real difference that "makes it work" is the BDMV versus BDAV burn. The Samsung and PS3 are the only two players that I could get to play burned Blu-Rays, with the PS3 playing both -R and -RE discs. The Samsung would only play -R's, both Sony and Verbatim media...

Lee

burn an ISO image with DVDit Pro HD. Then go to "Burn Disc" and select DVD as the disc type and select "from image" rather than from current project. Select your BD ISO and click OK.

Works in the Panny. sounds like it works in the PS3. Wonder if it works in the Sony BD player.

[GodobeHD]

Then how to make BDMV on DVDR (or DVD-RW?) Any free (or cheap) tool for that? Thanks in advance.

regards,

Li On
I use Ulead MF5. It makes the BDMV the same fashion as HD-DVD. Then I simply burn BDMV onto a DVD+R using Nero. The disk with menu and chapters will play in Samsung (and presumably PS3 and panny) as long as the bit rate is UNDER 20 mbps. Anything over 20mbps seemed to stutter in Samsung. But as LeeB99 reported Sony BD player will complain "can't play the disk" no matter what.

I started a few threads last year on this forum about my BD burn experience with red laser media and got little interest. I thought it was because the red laser media that prevented BDMV from playing on all BD players. Its dissappointing to see BDMV on blue laser media having exactly the same issues.

I have this feeling that Hollywood and Sony just don't want to see us making home made movies, except perhaps as data backup.

[MozartMan]

I use Ulead MF5. It makes the BDMV the same fashion as HD-DVD.
GodobeHD,

Are you using older version of Ulead MF5?

I am asking this because I tried recent version and it only makes BDAV.

[GodobeHD]

yes, its Ulead initial MF5 version 0.000.0.

[SS Scott]

there were reasons that the BDMV version of MF5 was pulled a week after it was released. It preceded the release of the spec for burning BDMV to BD-R/RE by several months, so it never could have been legal as far as the BDA was concerned. A licensing issue is rumored for the pull, but I checked out the streams it was creating and I found that they were not BD legal, so that may have had something to do with it as well. It may also have something to do with the playback issues you are seeing.

BD-R/RE discs created with DVDit Pro HD are now playing in Panasonic, Pioneer and Sony BD players and the Samsung with the original firmware. Generally I only see success with ISO's burned to DVD-R in the Panasonic. FYI - the bit rate max is related to the continuous read rate of DVD-R/+R. That read rate is 3x which should make the max bit rate on such a disc about 24mbs...whereas on BD-R/RE the software allows you to output streams at up to 40mbs.

[plee]

there were reasons that the BDMV version of MF5 was pulled a week after it was released. It preceded the release of the spec for burning BDMV to BD-R/RE by several months, so it never could have been legal as far as the BDA was concerned. A licensing issue is rumored for the pull, but I checked out the streams it was creating and I found that they were not BD legal, so that may have had something to do with it as well. It may also have something to do with the playback issues you are seeing.

BD-R/RE discs created with DVDit Pro HD are now playing in Panasonic, Pioneer and Sony BD players and the Samsung with the original firmware. Generally I only see success with ISO's burned to DVD-R in the Panasonic. FYI - the bit rate max is related to the continuous read rate of DVD-R/+R. That read rate is 3x which should make the max bit rate on such a disc about 24mbs...whereas on BD-R/RE the software allows you to output streams at up to 40mbs.

Nice to see here also Scott. Scott is very helpful to DVDit HD Pro users :)

[GodobeHD]

there were reasons that the BDMV version of MF5 was pulled a week after it was released. It preceded the release of the spec for burning BDMV to BD-R/RE by several months, so it never could have been legal as far as the BDA was concerned. A licensing issue is rumored for the pull, but I checked out the streams it was creating and I found that they were not BD legal, so that may have had something to do with it as well. It may also have something to do with the playback issues you are seeing.

BD-R/RE discs created with DVDit Pro HD are now playing in Panasonic, Pioneer and Sony BD players and the Samsung with the original firmware. Generally I only see success with ISO's burned to DVD-R in the Panasonic. FYI - the bit rate max is related to the continuous read rate of DVD-R/+R. That read rate is 3x which should make the max bit rate on such a disc about 24mbs...whereas on BD-R/RE the software allows you to output streams at up to 40mbs.

It is disturbing to see that legit BDMV authoring software which is no more complex technically than HD-DVD's costs nearly ten times as much as HD-DVD's and it is not nearly as widely available and glitch free as HD-DVDs. The only explanation as you suggested seems to be that the process is so controled by Sony that Sony can charge whatever licensing fees or imposing whatever conditions. I am afraid if this is any indication for things to come with this format then BD authoring process is going to be out of reach for most consumers except those who have to have it. I am not for one format or the other I just hate to have Hollywood or any CE manufacture dictate what we can do or can have.

[SS Scott]

actually that is not the answer. you can do fairly simple modifications to a DVD authoring software and get basic HD DVD, thus a number of companies have done that. Blu-ray, and in specific BDMV is an entirely different thing alltogether. That is why you don't see much in the way of software for BDMV authoring as of yet.

[plee]

actually that is not the answer. you can do fairly simple modifications to a DVD authoring software and get basic HD DVD, thus a number of companies have done that. Blu-ray, and in specific BDMV is an entirely different thing alltogether. That is why you don't see much in the way of software for BDMV authoring as of yet.

Is there a HD-DVD writer out there yet? I know the media is available...

[Brajesh]

Not yet. Blu-ray is definitely ahead in this area.

[Neo1965]

BDMV is more complicated and I've not had good experience with external tools so far. In fact, I had to get someone to write one up based on the spec for our own internal use after giving up on external tools. (We needed HD AVC and VC1 support, not just MPEG2).

In the mean time, for MPEG2 HD, Cyberlink's Power Producer 4.0 January update can create BDAV which works very well on PS3 and samsungs. It essentially works for any MPEG2 stream I've tried. If you're using SL BD25 disks (as 99% of us will since the 50GB one is about $50 each!), try to keep your total file size < 22GB --- there's some overhead in the muxed stream. BDAV does not work in Panasonics.

You do have to fix up any errors in the stream before hand as PowerProducer is touchy with errors in the input and can blow up easily. I used VideoRedo to correct errors in the stream and force conversion of TS to MPG.

Btw, I use BD-RE first until I am satisfied and I painstakingly make notes of the time for chapter points and save frequently. Believe it or not, everything is very easy, but if you want to do it well, the chapter points will take up 90% of your editing time as you want to move the chapter points to right frame. Write down your chapter points, you will find it useful it you ever have to redo this for BDMV later.

Eventually I move it to BD-R. The chapter points now work after latest PS3 1.5x firmware update. Chapter points in samsung appear to not work.

[Brajesh]

How are BDAV & BDMV different? Not sure I understand this.

[MozartMan]

How are BDAV & BDMV different? Not sure I understand this.
BDAV - no menus, just simple playback with chapter points and also can create playlist.

BDMV - menus and probably all other features like on commercial BD disks.

[Brajesh]

Thanks. Sounds similar to VR vs. video format on DVD-RWs.

[Marc D Carra]

Ok, folks, I dug out my old version of Ulead Movie Factory 5.0.0.0000 and was able to make an iso file in BDMV format. It's a test file with some HD movie footage in 5.1 audio. I burned the iso file onto a DVDR using Nero, and my PC recognized it as a Blu-Ray disc and Power DVD Ultra started play it. So I tried the same disc in my PS3 and it shows up as a 'data disc' and won't play , even though it lets me browse all of the blu-ray structured folders on the disc.

So I need a couple of guinea pigs. I've uploaded the 1 gig iso file to a file share site, and need somebody with a set-top blu-ray player (Samsung, and Panasonic) to try it out. You will need to burn the ISO to a DVDR, so a DVD burner will be required. If anyone can try this for me, send me a PM, and I'll send you a link to the file share site with the password. I need to know if the file plays with 5.1 audio on your player.

Marc.

[MozartMan]

If anyone can try this for me, send me a PM

Marc.
Marc,

Your PM mail box is full. You need to clean it up.

[Marc D Carra]

Marc,

Your PM mail box is full. You need to clean it up.

Thanks for the heads up! Just made some room.

Marc.

[Elektrizitat]

Hi everyone,

Thanks again for posting this thread! I was wondering if someone could post a step-by-step guide on this. There are bits and pieces but I think some of the posts are assuming some previous knowledge that I evidently don't have. Here's what I do have:

1.) I'm capturing HD footage from a R5000 DirecTV set-top-box to my computer.

2.) I convert the high def .TS to an .MPG file with version 1.11.89 of the HDTV->MPEG2 application. This is so that PowerProducer will read the file.

3.) I import the MPG file into Cyberlink PowerProducer Pro version 4.0. However, when I go to burn it, it takes a loong time, and it appears as if PowerProducer is transcoding the file.

4.) I burn the video onto a Sony BD-RE with a Lite-On LH-2B1S Blu-ray burner. I just discovered that my burner had a slightly older firmware (AL05) that I just upgraded to AL06. I haven't had time to test to see if this helps at all.

5.) When I try to play the disc back in my PS3 I get error 80029945.

I believe I'm doing something wrong - either in the conversion of the .TS file or in my authoring of the disc in PowerProducer. Does anyone have any suggestions for me? Thanks!

[ROBERT HUNZEKER]

2.) I convert the high def .TS to an .MPG file with version 1.11.89 of the HDTV->MPEG2 application. This is so that PowerProducer will read the file.


Bad application to convert with, its called HDTVtoMPEG2 but its really for editing TS files, the program stream conversion has been broken for a long time. You would be much better off using Womble or VideoRedo.

Bob

[Neo1965]

Ok, here's my step by step approach for burning MPEG2 streams onto BD-R/BD-RE BDAV for PS3 or samsung player playback.

What you need :
1. Blu-Ray Burner (Panasonic, Sony, LiteOn, LG, plextor, pioneer, etc)
2. BD-RE media (Use RE first so you can erase everything and reuse the disk if you make a mistake).
3. PowerProducer 4 with latest patch Jan '07 or later.

A. Create the .MPG file(s).
1. If you already have the .MPG files and you are sure it is error free, skip to step B.
2. If you have a HDV camcorder, capture the .MPG file on your HDD skip to step B.
3. Run VideoRedoPlus on the file(s) and create .MPG file fixing any synch or stream errors in the process.

B. Run Power Producer.
1. Start a Blu-Ray project
2. Add the MPG file(s) to the video selection.
3. Edit the chapter points (you can have auto chapters added or you can manually set them).
4. Press Burn, Insert Blank BD-RE, wait an hour.
5. Take BD-RE to PS3 and play it. Note Chapter advances work.

----

This works with
1920x1080P,25fps 15Mbps VBR
1920x1080P,24fps 19.2Mbps CBR
1920x1080i,60Hz 22Mbps VBR/CBR
1440x1080i,60Hz 25Mbps CBR (HDV)
1280x720P,24fps/60Hz (any bitrate).
720x480 of any mode.

[Elektrizitat]

Wow! Thanks for the info - I'm running to my office to try this out right now. :) Thanks again!

Ok, here's my step by step approach for burning MPEG2 streams onto BD-R/BD-RE BDAV for PS3 or samsung player playback.

2. If you have a HDV camcorder, capture the .MPG file on your HDD skip to step B.
3. Run VideoRedoPlus on the file(s) and create .MPG file fixing any synch or stream errors in the process.

[Brajesh]

Neo1965, do you get 5.1 on the PS3 w/your method?

[Neo1965]

Neo1965, do you get 5.1 on the PS3 w/your method?
Now that you mentioned this, I didn't notice it earlier as my HDV was stereo. The 5.1 appears to be downmixed to stereo --- I thought it was a bug in the PowerProducer4.

[Marc D Carra]

Now that you mentioned this, I didn't notice it earlier as my HDV was stereo. The 5.1 appears to be downmixed to stereo --- I thought it was a bug in the PowerProducer4.

It has been noted by several people (myself included) that the PS3 downconverts the 5.1 audio to stereo on BD-REs, and even MPEG2 files played on the PS3. Seems to be an issue with the current firmware.

Marc.

[Neo1965]

Amazon has the DL 50GB -R for $29.57. Has anyone tried to see if it works? It used to be $50, I would have got it but this is not a RE media, so is not eraseable....

[Marc D Carra]

Amazon has the DL 50GB -R for $29.57. Has anyone tried to see if it works? It used to be $50, I would have got it but this is not a RE media, so is not eraseable....

If it was RE media, I'd snag a couple for sure. I've got a 'precious' movie I'd like to author to Blu-ray but it's 28gig. Right now, I suppose I could split it between a BD-RE25 and a DVD+R DL9 but its just nice to throw it all on one disc.


BTW, the PS3 1.6rev firmware is out tonight so maybe that will fix our 5.1 audio issue!

Marc.

[Brajesh]

Got my fingers crossed for the 5.1 fix. I'd dump HD DVD authoring for easier BD/PS3 authoring instead.

[Marc D Carra]

Got my fingers crossed for the 5.1 fix. I'd dump HD DVD authoring for easier BD/PS3 authoring instead.

The fix information also mentions BDMV playback from BD-RE an BDR. I wonder if that means BDMV from DVDR as well? Hmmmm. And I wonder if BDMV allows for 5.1 audio....

Marc.

[CKNA]

Now that you mentioned this, I didn't notice it earlier as my HDV was stereo. The 5.1 appears to be downmixed to stereo --- I thought it was a bug in the PowerProducer4.


Power Producer does not support 5.1 audio. I emailed Cyberlink about it, and they confirmed it.

[Marc D Carra]

Power Producer does not support 5.1 audio. I emailed Cyberlink about it, and they confirmed it.

It's inherrant in the BDAV spec from the looks of it. It really has nothing to do with Power Producer per se. It's just making the discs to the BDAV spec. BDMVs on the other hand, will allow for 5.1 audio.

DVD it HD Pro and Movie Factory 5.0.000 will produce a BDMV with 5.1 audio

Marc.

[LeeB99]

Sorry to have been gone from this thread for so long... anyhow...

The playback issue HAS to be with the PS3, as the power producer software DOES NOT appear to re-encode the video AT ALL, and when playing back on the PS3, the PS3 IDENTIFIES the audio signal as "multi channel dolby digital" when playing the disc and viewing the "information" bar (which also shows the video bitrate).

To the person with the modified satelite receiver: -The (most likely) reason why Power Producer is taking so long is that you have not patched the "1088" horizontal resolution headers from your mpeg file. Converting to an Mpeg PS (program stream) file will not make it compatible with Power Producer OR DVD Movie Factory if it is still a 1920 X 1088 video file. Use "HDPatch" to convert it to a 1920 X 1080, and the re-encoding will stop and it will burn "straight to disc"...

I have found that adding chapter stops CAN introduce momentary audio interruptions during playback. Since the PS3 has a 120X scan, I can live without the chapter stops. And, yesterday I ran into something that was REALLY strange. I burned some discs to BD-R's, and when checking them, I found that playback stopped just as the end credits started. I then checked the original file, and the credits WERE completely intact. I then played back the BD-R on the PC using the Cyberlink Power DVD playback software and, strangely enough, video playback paused at the SAME point, but the audio continued to play throughout the rest of the credit sequence. I had never run into this before, and have no idea why it was.

If only Sony would update the firmware to allow full 5.1 audio output from Mpeg files and BDAV discs, then we would be in really good shape. I still won't be completely satisfied, however, until the audio dropouts that appear to plague the beginning of video files during the "studio title information" segments have been COMPLETELY eliminated...

Lee

[SS Scott]

DVDit Pro HD will indeed pass through AC-3 5.1 to BDMV discs...hopefully this PS3 firmware update will allow BDMV on BD-R/RE

[blah12345]

Copied from the PS3 1.6 patch notes:

Blu-ray Disc Rewriteable (BD-RE) Support

* PS3 system can now playback BD-RE discs (version 3.0).

This is a complete lie. We still cannot play back BDMV on BD-RE (part of 3.0 spec) or on BD-R (2.0 spec).

At this point I'm pretty upset at Sony not delivering what they said. Any ideas on how we can escalate this issue?

EDIT: I may be doing something wrong, please ignore what I posted for now.

[Marc D Carra]

Copied from the PS3 1.6 patch notes:

Blu-ray Disc Rewriteable (BD-RE) Support

* PS3 system can now playback BD-RE discs (version 3.0).

This is a complete lie. We still cannot play back BDMV on BD-RE (part of 3.0 spec) or on BD-R (2.0 spec).

At this point I'm pretty upset at Sony not delivering what they said. Any ideas on how we can escalate this issue?

Very disappointing to hear this. I'm not sure who at Sony would be able to help bring this to their attention? Especially since they specifically stated it was fixed!

Has anyone tested MPEG2 5.1 audio yet? Is it fixed?? I should get around to updating my PS3 tonight so if nobody reports back sooner, I will later tonight.

Marc.

[1st on the Block]

Copied from the PS3 1.6 patch notes:

Blu-ray Disc Rewriteable (BD-RE) Support

* PS3 system can now playback BD-RE discs (version 3.0).

This is a complete lie. We still cannot play back BDMV on BD-RE (part of 3.0 spec) or on BD-R (2.0 spec).

At this point I'm pretty upset at Sony not delivering what they said. Any ideas on how we can escalate this issue?

After updating to 1.6, I can tell you that I have been able to play back a BDMV title on both BD-RE and BD-R. Download the firmware and see.

[blah12345]

After updating to 1.6, I can tell you that I have been able to play back a BDMV title on both BD-RE and BD-R. Download the firmware and see.

Wow, maybe I'm doing something wrong. Let me double check. Sorry for jumping the gun early.

[Marc D Carra]

After updating to 1.6, I can tell you that I have been able to play back a BDMV title on both BD-RE and BD-R. Download the firmware and see.


Have you tried BDMV from DVDR? Are you getting 5.1 sound from BDMV's on the PS3?

Marc.

[SS Scott]

1st on the block. what did you create your BDMV project with?

[1st on the Block]

Have you tried BDMV from DVDR? Are you getting 5.1 sound from BDMV's on the PS3?

Marc.

Sorry, I have not tried DVD-Rs. I'm running optical output set to bitstream and yes I'm getting 5.1.

[1st on the Block]

1st on the block. what did you create your BDMV project with?

VideoStudio 10, the initial release has the ability to create BDMVs, then was updated and the feature was removed.

[SS Scott]

that is a disc with HD menus & HD title(s) that you are having success with?

[Phloyd]

After updating to 1.6, I can tell you that I have been able to play back a BDMV title on both BD-RE and BD-R. Download the firmware and see.

Great.

I will see if I can mirror these results myself later today (though I only have RE media at this stage).

[Neo1965]

After updating to 1.6, I can tell you that I have been able to play back a BDMV title on both BD-RE and BD-R. Download the firmware and see.
Whoa!!!! Have to try that. I can see a very productive weekend ahead of me.

[Phloyd]

Here is one very interesting side effect of the update:

A DVDR that I have which has a BDMV file structure (plays as a BD in the Panasonic) is not recognised as a BD disc.

However it does show up as a data disc and the 00000.m2ts file is playable.

It seems that the .ts files are still not seen as video files.

Note that the m2ts files are a little different from ts files so it is not clear if just renaming a ts file will work either.

[MozartMan]

It seems that the .ts files are still not seen as video files.

Note that the m2ts files are a little different from ts files so it is not clear if just renaming a ts file will work either.
I renamed .ts file to .m2ts. PS3 plays video, but no audio.

[Marc D Carra]

A BREAKTHROUGH!!

After the new PS3, 1.6 update, I just made a BDMV on a BD-RE using Movie Factory 5, and it plays back perfectly with menu's and 5.1 audio!!!! This rocks!!!

No audio dropouts, no problems whatsoever.

The info displays as Dolby Digital Multi-channel audio 448Kps, which is how the original stream is encoded.

Looks like I'll be re-authoring all of my 2 channel BDAVs as BDMVs now.


Fully functional high bitrate BDMVs with 5.1 audio are now a reality. Thanks Sony!

Marc.

[Phloyd]

I had no luck with the renaming game - .ts files renamed to .m2ts showed 'unsupported'.

Short .m2ts files from home authored and real BDs could be played from the PS3 HDD with no trouble.

[Phloyd]

After the new PS3, 1.6 update, I just made a BDMV on a BD-RE using Movie Factory 5, and it plays back perfectly with menu's and 5.1 audio!!!! This rocks!!!


Seems that the ULead tools are working out then.

Hopefully we will hear about the DVDit Pro HD BDMV output too soon...

If not I can probably make an image tonight and test it tomorrow.

[Civuck]

A BREAKTHROUGH!!

After the new PS3, 1.6 update, I just made a BDMV on a BD-RE using Movie Factory 5, and it plays back perfectly with menu's and 5.1 audio!!!! This rocks!!!

No audio dropouts, no problems whatsoever.

The info displays as Dolby Digital Multi-channel audio 448Kps, which is how the original stream is encoded.

Looks like I'll be re-authoring all of my 2 channel BDAVs as BDMVs now.


Fully functional high bitrate BDMVs with 5.1 audio are now a reality. Thanks Sony!

Marc.You're in the lucky minority. No luck here with PS3 1.6 and BDMV on BD-R.

What type of media are you using?

C.

[Phloyd]

You're in the lucky minority. No luck here with PS3 1.6 and BDMV on BD-R..

C. - what authoring tool did you use? And what issue did you see?

Error message or other kind of failure?

[Marc D Carra]

You're in the lucky minority. No luck here with PS3 1.6 and BDMV on BD-R.

What type of media are you using?

C.

I'm using Sony BD-RE's

I have some Verbatim BD-Rs I can try out as well and let you know


DVDit Pro authored BDMV's are working as well. My friend is using DVD-it Pro and he just brought over a disc he made. Works fine!

Marc.

[Civuck]

C. - what authoring tool did you use? And what issue did you see?

Error message or other kind of failure?I can't tell you what tool was used as we had it done out of house by another company. Essentially the disc is identified as a BD-R in the PS3 main interface but upon playback, an invalid disc error appears.

C.

[Civuck]

I'm using Sony BD-RE's

I have some Verbatim BD-Rs I can try out as well and let you know


DVDit Pro authored BDMV's are working as well. My friend is using DVD-it Pro and he just brought over a disc he made. Works fine!

Marc.Thanks for the update Marc. Our BDMV video was supplied to us on Verbatim BD-R also but sadly the PS3 says Invalid Disc. I'm very curious to hear how you make out with your Verbatim BD-Rs. I'm waiting to hear back as to what authoring tool was used for ours as it was done by another company.

C.

[1st on the Block]

I can't tell you what tool was used as we had it done out of house by another company. Essentially the disc is identified as a BD-R in the PS3 main interface but upon playback, an invalid disc error appears.

C.

I burned a BD-RE for fun with Nero Express 7.5 and it showed up in the PS3 as a BDMV , but on playback I got and error message that it was an invalid disk. I reburned it with Nero ROM and manually picked UDF 2.5 as the filing system and voila, it plays. Check it out.

[Phloyd]

I reburned it with Nero ROM and manually picked UDF 2.5 as the filing system and voila, it plays. Check it out.

Very interesting. UDF 2.5 is what it should be of course.

In any case I am sure that the invalid disc issues are a result of formatting in some way or another.

Great to hear that there has been some success with DVDit authored discs.

[Brajesh]

I'm traveling on business & can't test this. Can somone just drop a hi-def MPG file w/5.1 on a DVD-R & see if the PS3 w/1.6 firmware plays it back w/5.1 (not downmixed 2.1). Thanks.

[Marc D Carra]

I'm traveling on business & can't test this. Can somone just drop a hi-def MPG file w/5.1 on a DVD-R & see if the PS3 w/1.6 firmware plays it back w/5.1 (not downmixed 2.1). Thanks.


Sorry to say, they still downmix to 2.1 :mad:

I'll forgive them until the next update , since the BDMV thing is working right now.

Marc.

[LeeB99]

I just got here to read the new information, and it sounds like we are (finally) getting some help from Sony. I have not updated my PS3 yet, so I have not had a chance to test my "BDAV" discs to see if they are still "downsampled" in the audio department. No one here mentioned what happens with a "BDAV" authored disc with the new firmware. I am VERY interested to find this out, as I have burned several of those to BD-R's. Does anyone have anything to report on this? I have a retail box purchased version of Movie factory 5. I will go and see if it has the BDMV features included...

Lee

[plee]

I'm using Sony BD-RE's

I have some Verbatim BD-Rs I can try out as well and let you know


DVDit Pro authored BDMV's are working as well. My friend is using DVD-it Pro and he just brought over a disc he made. Works fine!

Marc.

Interesting, I just tried with DVDit Pro HD and it came back with invalid disk (Memorex BD-RE). It's gonna suck if it works based on which media you use :mad:

[LeeB99]

plee- I really HATE to say it, but I personally wouldn't use the Memorex brand media. It is apparent that the Sony and Verbatim brands are confirmed to be the most compatible at this point. I have personally had some bad luck with the Memorex dual layer DVD-R discs, so I have avoided purchasing any Memorex brand Blu-Ray media...

Lee

[Marc D Carra]

Ok, some more interesting findings:

I noticed one 'flaw' so far. When you playback a BDMV on the PS3, you don't get a time progress bar on the info screen. You can navigate through the disc as usual, and advance through the chapters, but there's no progress bar at the bottom.

BDAV's still play back with 2.0 audio. I think it's inherrant to the format.

BDMV's are full 5.1 though

Just to give you an idea of time involved:

It takes longer to author a disc than it does to burn it. DVD Movie Factory creates all of the folders on your hard drive, which takes about 30 min for a 17 Gig movie. Then it creates the ISO which takes about 15 minutes. Burning the ISO with Nero 7 takes another 30 minutes. So it's about an hour and 15 minutes from start to finish once you have your MPEG2 HD file.


Marc.

[Phloyd]

Interesting, I just tried with DVDit Pro HD and it came back with invalid disk (Memorex BD-RE). It's gonna suck if it works based on which media you use :mad:

I will be trying TDK BD-RE tomorrow.

Will be interesting to see how it goes.

Time to get some Sony media I guess..!

[bdlab]

Hi there,

is it possible to author a BDMV disk from HDV footage (1440*1080i) without recompression. It is possible with DVD Studio (HDDVD) or BDAV authoring tools, but it seems DVDit Pro only supports 1920*1080 MPEG PS without recompression. Is this a restriction of this specific program or a general limitation of BDMV.

Thanks, BDLAB

[GodobeHD]

Hi there,

is it possible to author a BDMV disk from HDV footage (1440*1080i) without recompression. It is possible with DVD Studio (HDDVD) or BDAV authoring tools, but it seems DVDit Pro only supports 1920*1080 MPEG PS without recompression. Is this a restriction of this specific program or a general limitation of BDMV.

Thanks, BDLAB
yes, it is. I have created BDMV from HDV with Ulead MF5 without recompression.

[bdlab]

Thanks,

I hope a future update of DVDit Pro will support HDV without recompression.

BDLAB

[Neo1965]

I will be trying TDK BD-RE tomorrow.

Will be interesting to see how it goes.

Time to get some Sony media I guess..!

Last time I looked, outside of tokyo's akihabara, the cheapest BD-RE are the sony ones, newegg have decent prices. tigerdirect carries the TDK ones for a few bucks more.