Hey just curious if anyone is having problems getting ABC (7.1-7.3) or WGN (9.1)? Just a few days ago these stations turned to black and now I can't get a signal through them, which is odd because I can pick up CBS, NBC, WTTW, etc. just fine. Just these two are black, and not even low signal, NO signal what so ever.

Wondering if anyone else has had this problem in the past few days? Or if someone can recommend a good fix.

I'm on an LG 32", using the built in tuner, no extra HD antennas.

Also, it's weird because I didn't move anything and have reconnected everything and made sure the connections are all good and they appear to be.

Not here, but if they made a software change at the stations, you may have to rescan. See what happens.

Hey just curious if anyone is having problems getting ABC (7.1-7.3) or WGN (9.1)? Just a few days ago these stations turned to black and now I can't get a signal through them, which is odd because I can pick up CBS, NBC, WTTW, etc. just fine. Just these two are black, and not even low signal, NO signal what so ever.

Wondering if anyone else has had this problem in the past few days? Or if someone can recommend a good fix.

I'm on an LG 32", using the built in tuner, no extra HD antennas.

Also, it's weird because I didn't move anything and have reconnected everything and made sure the connections are all good and they appear to be.


Comcast cable just changed the actual QAM freqs for these two channels a few days ago. Of course OTA would not have changed.

Yeah, I rescanned a few days ago (Saturday to be exact, I wanted that Texas/Missouri game haha) nothing. But luckily this morning I tried it again and they came back on. Thanks for the heads up. Maybe I rescanned while they were still switching software or something? Who knows. Luckily it's working now, thanks again!

Hopefully someone can help here. I have noticed lately that I have been getting a random 1/2 sec audio dropout when watching HD tv with DD audio and it is sent to my receiver. However, I am also noticing that i get a 1-line digital glitch when watching tv, but the rest of the screen doesn't have any issues. They don't necessarily happen at the same time. When I watch a BD movie, the screen doesn't do it. So, I have narrowed it down to either the signal, the antenna or the tuner in the TV. The receiver and optical cable are new, and this has been happening before I replaced them. Has anyone else been experiencing this or does anyone have any input here?

Thanks!

Today, while watching "The People's Court", the video was out of sync and there was random pixilation and the video would be in sync, more pixilation, then out of sync, more pixilation, in, sync, etc. This is the first time I've noticed this happening on a "taped" show on channel 26.1. I have noticed a similar situation with WTTW-DT channel 11.1.

Also, last night, trying to watch "The King of Queens" on channel 26.1, the regular stuttering and jerking problem that I've been experiencing for several months was still there and very bad. I watched the same episode later on WVTV-DT, channel 18.1, from Milwaukee on the same set and it was perfect.

Has anybody heard if any of the local stations have announced a test schedule on their Digital transmitters before the switch over?

I would like to find out when WBBM is doing there test to see if I need to get a better antenna.

Today, while watching "The People's Court", the video was out of sync and there was random pixilation and the video would be in sync, more pixilation, then out of sync, more pixilation, in, sync, etc. This is the first time I've noticed this happening on a "taped" show on channel 26.1. I have noticed a similar situation with WTTW-DT channel 11.1.

Also, last night, trying to watch "The King of Queens" on channel 26.1, the regular stuttering and jerking problem that I've been experiencing for several months was still there and very bad. I watched the same episode later on WVTV-DT, channel 18.1, from Milwaukee on the same set and it was perfect.

We're aware of both. There are some tweaking issues with our DT that need to be addressed.

Hi there, I noticed something strange on Sunday. In my DirecTv program guide I now have listings for ota WMLW-DT 58-1. The guide says the channel is for WMLW-DT ind. 58-1 from Chicago. A quick google for this channel says it is a subchannel of WDJT-DT in Milwaukee. I assume this is some sort of an error in the programming department on behalf of DirecTv or the service they use for their program guides. Anybody else seeing this or have the scoop?

Has anybody heard if any of the local stations have announced a test schedule on their Digital transmitters before the switch over?

I would like to find out when WBBM is doing there test to see if I need to get a better antenna.

None yet, but Kal Hassan, Chief Engineer at WLS, has stated on this board that they will do one. I can't remember, but I think he said sometime this winter. Nobody else has announced anything, not even a "soft" shutdown where all the stations for a minute or so shut down to see if viewers are ready.

Hi there, I noticed something strange on Sunday. In my DirecTv program guide I now have listings for ota WMLW-DT 58-1. The guide says the channel is for WMLW-DT ind. 58-1 from Chicago. A quick google for this channel says it is a subchannel of WDJT-DT in Milwaukee. I assume this is some sort of an error in the programming department on behalf of DirecTv or the service they use for their program guides. Anybody else seeing this or have the scoop?Actually, 58-1 is WDJT-DT. 58-2 is WMLW-DT. At least OTA.

Are you actually receiving the channel? (Either one.) Seeing that you're in Plano, I'd think it was some sort of mistake.

No, I am not receiving the channel. All I get is searching for signal on the ota tuner. The info banner still lists the channel as WMLWDT 58-1 ind. service from Chicago, Illinois. The program listings are there however. I'm sure it's some sort of error.

None yet, but Kal Hassan, Chief Engineer at WLS, has stated on this board that they will do one. I can't remember, but I think he said sometime this winter. Nobody else has announced anything, not even a "soft" shutdown where all the stations for a minute or so shut down to see if viewers are ready.

Thanks for the info. I'll keep looking in to see if they mention anything. I'm sure if they do you guys will be right on it.

None yet, but Kal Hassan, Chief Engineer at WLS, has stated on this board that they will do one. I can't remember, but I think he said sometime this winter. Nobody else has announced anything, not even a "soft" shutdown where all the stations for a minute or so shut down to see if viewers are ready.

Funny you should mention this, I've seen evidence that they've already tested the DT-07 signal. I couldn't possibly tell you when it happened, but here, look at this:

http://www.silicondust.com/hdhomerun/lineupui?Cmd=LocationProgramsWeb&Country=US&Postcode=60601

Note the (now dead) WLS feeds on physical channel 7.

- Trip

Funny you should mention this, I've seen evidence that they've already tested the DT-07 signal. I couldn't possibly tell you when it happened, but here, look at this:

http://www.silicondust.com/hdhomerun/lineupui?Cmd=LocationProgramsWeb&Country=US&Postcode=60601

Note the (now dead) WLS feeds on physical channel 7.

- Trip

Interesting! Well, they may want to tweak things before they test it "for real" and tell everyone, I don't know. But I do know I would have loved to have seen that, if in fact it was tested.

WLS did do a full 3kW test last night of their DTV7 transmitter. OTA broadcast of their analog signal and DTV52 signal was down from 3:30 until 4:30am.

WLS did do a full 3kW test last night of their DTV7 transmitter. OTA broadcast of their analog signal and DTV52 signal was down from 3:30 until 4:30am.Thank you.  Sad that there wasn't some publicity for it: some viewers may have wanted to see how well the signal came in.

Came in as usual here during that time. It pegs my CM-7000's meter at 100% anyway, so I couldn't tell any difference.

Damm I would have liked to seen that too as Im out here in the sticks.

Anyone know if WBBM-DT added power? I did a rescan, and haven't changed my OTA DTV setup going on eight months, yet all of a sudden I'm able to receive WBBM-DT clear as day.

(I tried searching for WBBM-DT, but that resulted in six bazillion hits about how badly the reception sucks for WBBM-DT.)

Could be Tropo or the leaves are starting to fall.

Could be Tropo or the leaves are starting to fall.

Yeah, but I couldn't get WBBM in March before the trees budded, so I'm really surprised/confused!

Damm I would have liked to seen that too as Im out here in the sticks.

Me, too. Kal, you watching? Do it again, and please, please, please, we'd love to know and help you determine how well/far your signal goes out!

Yeah, but I couldn't get WBBM in March before the trees budded, so I'm really surprised/confused!

Was a local noise source silenced? Leaves shouldn't have much affect on Low-VHF, nor tropo (tropo is mainly a UHF and sometimes an upper VHF phenomenon).

The current tropo forecast for the area is Marginal to Fair.

http://www.dxinfocentre.com/tropo.html

Have you noticed any change on analog 2? I know of no power increase filings for WBBM-DT3.

Where are you located?

Has anyone else noticed a change?

yea i have noticed something up with mine, up till about the last week i was getting digital ch. 2-1 in fine, and now i cant seam to find it at all, have tried to adjust my ant, but no luck hopefully this will only last a few days or so ,but hopefully if nothing else will be fixed in feb

is WMEU's (analog ch. 48) digital signal on-air yet?

there was a mention of it being on channel 49 in another thread but that seems to be wrong....i've searched around here for info but couldnt find anything...except maybe its actually supposed to be on ch 46 if and when they go on-air?

is WMEU's (analog ch. 48) digital signal on-air yet?

there was a mention of it being on channel 49 in another thread but that seems to be wrong....i've searched around here for info but couldnt find anything...except maybe its actually supposed to be on ch 46 if and when they go on-air?

We're not on the air digitally as of yet. We're still going to be on 46.

Good morning how are you folks doing today?When could we see WMEU go full power digital or anytime soon.And i hope we can finally get the channel on our directv lineup.


Thanks

Allen Culver
Streator,Illinois

We're not on the air digitally as of yet. We're still going to be on 46.

Won't you guys have some issues battling with WDJT-DT out of Milwaukee in Kenosha, Lake, and McHenry counties? What about when tropo picks up for issues in Cook county? WDJT is a 1MW transmitter. Wouldn't 24 (after feb.) have been a better choice or is it an equipment cost issue? What about being a subchannel of WWME?

My sympathies.

From WLS-DT engineering:

"We are planning on doing the testing on November 8-14 from 1am-4:45am".

So...mark your calendars now, they will be turning off analog 7 and throwing on their digital signal for almost 3 hours on physical channel 7, so you can test to see if you can get it during those dates and time frames. The test will be 4.75 kw from high atop Sears Tower.

Was a local noise source silenced? Leaves shouldn't have much affect on Low-VHF, nor tropo (tropo is mainly a UHF and sometimes an upper VHF phenomenon).

Not as far as I know! Seriously, I've done absolutely nothing and all of a sudden, wham, wbbm-dt. (Unless someone was swinging a microwave transmitter around their head by the cord, dunno... :D )

The current tropo forecast for the area is Marginal to Fair.

Just checked it, and WBBM-DT is still coming in just fine. I guess I'll check tomorrow when tropo is supposed to be nil and see what I get.

Have you noticed any change on analog 2? I know of no power increase filings for WBBM-DT3.

Nope; analog wbbm is still as craptacular as ever. (OK, that's a bit unfair to WBBM; I have a UHF-only antenna hooked up. But still; analog 2 isn't coming in all that well.)

Where are you located?

Skokie

Won't you guys have some issues battling with WDJT-DT out of Milwaukee in Kenosha, Lake, and McHenry counties? What about when tropo picks up for issues in Cook county? WDJT is a 1MW transmitter. Wouldn't 24 (after feb.) have been a better choice or is it an equipment cost issue? What about being a subchannel of WWME?

My sympathies.

Unfortunately I dont make the channel assignment decisions. Not quite sure why we chose that channel.

Good morning how are you folks doing today?When could we see WMEU go full power digital or anytime soon.And i hope we can finally get the channel on our directv lineup.


Thanks

Allen Culver
Streator,Illinois

Full Power Digital??? Have you been talking to the dtvanswers.com people?

:D:D:D:D:D 1,000th post!!!!!!:D:D:D:D:D

:D:D:D:D:D 1,000th post!!!!!!:D:D:D:D:D

Yeah, but I'm still looking for my box of color bars! :D

P.S. I think I did a 1,000 posts when CBS had the Super Bowl on a few years ago...

is WMEU's (analog ch. 48) digital signal on-air yet?

there was a mention of it being on channel 49 in another thread but that seems to be wrong....i've searched around here for info but couldnt find anything...except maybe its actually supposed to be on ch 46 if and when they go on-air?49 analog is Me-TV out of Milwaukee I believe, so I don't think they would've put it there yet anyway.

But the 46 part doesn't make much sense either.

I haven't been able to pick up WDJT-DT for a couple of weeks now - I wonder why that is?

I just learned that KBC's WMKB-LD, licensed to Rochelle but moved to Route 64 and state route 47 in Kane county, will be signing on later this month, if all goes well. Should hit most of the western suburbs nicely; I saw what appeared to be the new channel 8 antenna on the tower this weekend. That tower is line of sight for many miles, so it should get a decent pickup, even at 300 watts.Gilbert - you heard anything on this lately? I just want to know when so I can figure out which way to point my antenna and try to get it.

Gilbert - you heard anything on this lately? I just want to know when so I can figure out which way to point my antenna and try to get it.

All I know is that they were gunning for Halloween, and *still* hadn't decided what programming to put on there. You should point the antenna towards their tower on route 47 and halfway between routes 64 and 72. As of 10/22/08, I see nothing there.

From WLS-DT engineering:

"We are planning on doing the testing on November 8-14 from 1am-4:45am".

So...mark your calendars now, they will be turning off analog 7 and throwing on their digital signal for almost 3 hours on physical channel 7, so you can test to see if you can get it during those dates and time frames. The test will be 4.75 kw from high atop Sears Tower.

Hey that's one. About another 15 to go. Is the 4.75kw going to be their full time power or is this just a test power?

Hey that's one. About another 15 to go. Is the 4.75kw going to be their full time power or is this just a test power?

That will be their full power.

Nope; analog wbbm is still as craptacular as ever. (OK, that's a bit unfair to WBBM; I have a UHF-only antenna hooked up. But still; analog 2 isn't coming in all that well.)


Ok, is WBBM secretly sending out a DTV signal on UHF from somewhere? :D

Getting WBBM on a full sized Low-VHF antenna is hard enough, but a UHF-only antenna? What kind is it?

I haven't been able to pick up WDJT-DT for a couple of weeks now - I wonder why that is?

It's been coming in OK for me here in Woodstock. Just watched CSI. However, it used to come in like gangbusters but for many many months now, it's acted like it's marginal, getting occasional dropouts.

I'm not looking forward to WMEU coming on the air on the same channel. It will probably wipe out CBS for me.

-dickm

From WLS-DT engineering:

"We are planning on doing the testing on November 8-14 from 1am-4:45am".

So...mark your calendars now, they will be turning off analog 7 and throwing on their digital signal for almost 3 hours on physical channel 7, so you can test to see if you can get it during those dates and time frames. The test will be 4.75 kw from high atop Sears Tower.

in the middle of the night... ? :rolleyes:
when less people are watching and gonna notice :rolleyes:

in the middle of the night... ? :rolleyes:
when less people are watching and gonna notice :rolleyes:

That's the goal.

- Trip

From WLS-DT engineering:

"We are planning on doing the testing on November 8-14 from 1am-4:45am".

Thank you, Gilbert.  The next question is whether that means the mornings of those dates or the wee hours at the close of each of those dates.

In other words, should we stay up late Friday night, November 7?

I heard WBBM
Kris Habermehl yesterday mentioned on air.. that Chopper 2 is being upgraded to HD.. should be in service Soon..

Ok, is WBBM secretly sending out a DTV signal on UHF from somewhere? :D

Beats me, but it sure is acting like it! :D Though if I run femon on my mythtv box, even though the signal isn't breaking up the snr ratio femon reports tells me the signal is just on the good side of marginal. So I'd imagine during a hard snow I'd have problems. (Then again, if the snow holds off until february... :cool: )

Yet despite that, WBBM-DT is still coming in just fine, all of a sudden! (See attachments.)

Getting WBBM on a full sized Low-VHF antenna is hard enough, but a UHF-only antenna? What kind is it?

Nothing special, just a bog standard DB2! (From that antennas direct place, though I didn't buy it there. I don't remember what AVS's policies are for linking, so I'll just leave it as a google search for those who don't know what it is.)

Thank you, Gilbert.* The next question is whether that means the mornings of those dates or the wee hours at the close of each of those dates.

In other words, should we stay up late Friday night, November 7?

AFAIK, it's the morning after. In other words, the nights of Saturday the 8th-Friday night/early Saturday morning the 15th.

AFAIK, it's the morning after. In other words, the nights of Saturday the 8th-Friday night/early Saturday morning the 15th.
Thank you.

Then the only thing for the highly curious to do is to try on the morning of November 8 and, if analog comes through on 7 and digital on 52 comes through to 7.1, 7.2, and 7.3, hope to find different results during the test hours on Sunday morning.

On the other hand, if the test is running on Saturday morning, November 8, we can sleep straight through on Friday night, November 14.

Though if I run femon on my mythtv box, even though the signal isn't breaking up the snr ratio femon reports tells me the signal is just on the good side of marginal.

It looks like MythTV doesn't show a ".1" when there are no sub-channels? Does it confirm the physical channel?

Let's see how long it keeps working, but come February, you will need to deal with upper VHF 7 & 12. How does the DB2 look on 7, 9, & 11 right now?

If you have a pair of rabbit ears around, I would be curious to see what changes when you use them, but perhaps it's best to leave it alone while WBBM is working. :D

I was wondering if anyone has heard any updates on ThisTV OTA making its debut? I saw on another thread that Comcast had announced its availability on Nov 18th (at least I think that's the date)

Thanks

I was wondering if anyone has heard any updates on ThisTV OTA making its debut? I saw on another thread that Comcast had announced its availability on Nov 18th (at least I think that's the date)

Thanks

Available via OTA on 26.4 by 11/1. Not sure on Comcast's timeframe to add us to their lineup.

Noticed a really minor glitch with 26-2 (and probably 23-1). When they air SiMeTV programming, the language shown in the PSIP is English.

anyone know what is going on with WMEU Channel 48?I just wanted to know

Something tells me I'm just going to be blocking out all of WCIU's subchannels after 11/1.

At that point, who cares how many channels there are, and what they're showing.

I just hope 26.1 still looks good enough to watch. I might very well have to go back to just listening to the baseball games on radio, because I just can't watching a sporting event full of digital artifacts - rather watch a blurry, old cable or OTA analog signal.

People think the football games look so great on CBS, but I can still see plenty of artifacts, and it's hard for me to watch.

Thanks for the update on WLS, My calander is marked..

I really want to see when WBBM cuts off WTTW and tests out WBBMDT on 12 for their test. Anyone have an idea when that may be.

BREAKING NEWS

WYCC-DT Acutally is showing someting in HD. :D Crazy how that works. :D

Watching Jacques Pepin: more fast food my way in HD. There is some major micro blocking noticeable. when he moves and when things cut over from HD. It would be nice if you all could get rid of the SD channel and just go with an HD only as its sad when there's noticeable micro blocking on a COOKING SHOW! I can tell you one thing they are giving WTTW a run for their money. When are we going to get a serious PBS Station that will take HD seriously.

WYCC-DT actually is showing someting in HD.Pardon my ignorance, but how can a viewer tell whether something on an HD channel is natively in HD or is upconverted from SD?  Surely one can't assume that 16:9 material is true HD while 4:3 material is upconverted from SD (though that would be right some of the time).

anyone know what is going on with WMEU Channel 48?I just wanted to know

Anything specific? I've been watching the digital broadcast off and on throughout the day on 26-3 and haven't noticed any issues. Just flipped over to analog 48 and it looks like it usually does.

Something tells me I'm just going to be blocking out all of WCIU's subchannels after 11/1.

At that point, who cares how many channels there are, and what they're showing.

I just hope 26.1 still looks good enough to watch. I might very well have to go back to just listening to the baseball games on radio, because I just can't watching a sporting event full of digital artifacts - rather watch a blurry, old cable or OTA analog signal.

People think the football games look so great on CBS, but I can still see plenty of artifacts, and it's hard for me to watch.

You're going to want to stab me for saying this, but I think it's a good idea.

If I were in Weigel's position right now, I would flip 26-1 to widescreen 480i and do straight SD multicasting on 26-x. Then I'd put WCIU in 720p or 1080i (whichever) on WWME-LD.

I'd do it once WWME-LD manages to boost power, of course, but it'd make the HD available in complete clarity, and the subchannels available to the widest possible audience.

Ideally, if Weigel could get a second full-service station, this would make more sense.

- Trip

I would love it if they gave the programming on 26.1 it's own channel (in both HD and SD - they also show a lot of SD material that I would like to see kept in it's best, possible shape). But I know that's never going to happen.

If they could do that, there wouldn't be any reason for them to also have it on 26.1 in widescreen 4:3. They could make the MGM movie channel HD, and just have the other, three subs still. But they're already set up for at least 6 channels, so I don't expect them to cut down to any less. If anything, they'd take that first, HD one, and divide it up into even more 480i ones.

I'm just sorry to see OTA analog disappearing - because I would at least have that to fall back on. I usually get WCIU analog in well, but even if it's a tad snowy or ghosty, I can usually stomach that better than digital artifacts.

I would love it if they gave the programming on 26.1 it's own channel (in both HD and SD - they also show a lot of SD material that I would like to see kept in it's best, possible shape). But I know that's never going to happen.

If they could do that, there wouldn't be any reason for them to also have it on 26.1 in widescreen 4:3.

My thought process is that if they put the pure HD on WWME-LD, because the reach would be limited, you'd want the widescreen to be available as well. Thus the widescreen SD on the full-powered signal.

- Trip

Yeah, generally speaking. But I get 23.1 pretty well here for the most part, so I guess I wasn't thinking in those terms.

Noticed a really minor glitch with 26-2 (and probably 23-1). When they air SiMeTV programming, the language shown in the PSIP is English.

Interesting. I'll make note of that.

anyone know what is going on with WMEU Channel 48?I just wanted to know

Can you be more descriptive?

My thought process is that if they put the pure HD on WWME-LD, because the reach would be limited, you'd want the widescreen to be available as well. Thus the widescreen SD on the full-powered signal.

- Trip

You guys having fun with our DTV subchannel allocations??? :D

Pardon my ignorance, but how can a viewer tell whether something on an HD channel is natively in HD or is upconverted from SD?* Surely one can't assume that 16:9 material is true HD while 4:3 material is upconverted from SD (though that would be right some of the time).


It was true HD, The channel is naively 1920 X 1080I. The nature of the beast PQ wise was HD. An up convert from SD did not look as good as this did. I use TS reader to tell a bunch of technical stuff, and I can tell you it was HD material, and wasnt a SD upconvert. ;)



Also, the whole WLS testing on DT7 had me thinking. Signals generally travel further at night especially when Tropo conditions allow. So at 4.7 KW I might get WLS DT but only at night when conditions allow. Is there going to be some sort of daytime testing for WLS for us out here in the sticks. WLS should consider this type of testing, weather it's for an hour block during the 11 am news or during soaps. I dont know what there current analoge wattage is at, On my CM 4228 I get 7 in really decently. I'm hoping that if there is a drop in power it wont affect me. What I am going to do is lock down my system and report current power levels of all channels and then post transition levels.

You guys having fun with our DTV subchannel allocations??? :D


Im glad they are not doing the allocations as they are screwing with us in the sticks. What should happen is this..

26.1 WCIU HD (1080I if not sharing) or (720P if sharing with another hd channel.) No need for SD wide as after Feb 2009 everyone will be digital. Also 99% of new tvs are wide screen. You all need to get past the old technology. Most people who have SD sets using antenna's will most likely upgrade to HDTV's or get cable, or a combination of both. For those OTA die hards they will have converter boxes they can watch in wide screen or fill in the screen to fit there 4:3 sets. In the matter of 5-10 years Most of those diehards will have upgraded or passed away. (Old people)

26.2 MGM HD (720P)

WCIUDT full power.

Idealy I would like to see WWME go full power. I can get it now, but only during the fall/winter/early spring. Once when the trees go into bloom I lose it.

23.1 METV HD 720P Old HD programs can premere on METV all leftover sd programming could go to METOO.
23.2 METOO SD
23.3 What ever is on 26-6 now and in the future can go here.

The wild card..

METOO's Channel allocation. That could potentially lead up for space for another HD channel if this also went to full power, or a mix of 6 sd channels. Options.. Options... Options.... Keep the HD programming on Full powered stations as it will reach the most and keep the most happy!

This is how you allocate channels! (not that hvs10trk didn't know how) Hey do you need help! :)

This TV is only going to be in SD, not in HD. So said the press release.

- Trip

The channel is naively 1920 X 1080I.Nice typo.I use TS reader to tell a bunch of technical stuff, and I can tell you it was HD material, and wasnt a SD upconvert.Thank you, Bob.

So the answer is that you were receiving it on a computer, not on a television, and the software analyzed the signal and gave you the information.

OK then, is it possible for a human watching an HD channel on a television set to distinguish native HD content from upconversions of SD content?  If so, how (other than assuming that anything in 16:9 is probably native HD and that anything in 4:3 is not, which would be right a good portion of the time but not all the time)?

Those wondering..
WBBM CBS2Chicago's helicopter Chopper2 HD is in Service as of 5am this morning..

It looks like MythTV doesn't show a ".1" when there are no sub-channels? Does it confirm the physical channel?

Oh, that's just a pecularity of the windows mythtv client. On a full (i.e. linux) myth frontend, I have to key in 021 (02, sub-channel 1) to get channel 2.

But your question (and your I'm sure facetious suggestion of a secondary/pirate WBBM-DT) got me to digging around in the myth configuration screens, just to verify what's going on under the hood. I'm definitely, somehow, pulling in WBBM-DT on channel 3. (see attachment)

On a side note, during yesterdays wind-nami I was unable to achieve a lock on WBBM-DT. Once the winds calmed down, it came back in again. That doesn't surprise me; there's a tree across the street and down a ways that's my OTA nemesis. When the winds really really get moving, it causes occasional-to-rare dropouts even on the best channels. That it degraded WBBM-DT enough so that I couldn't lock wasn't in the least bit surprising! :)

Let's see how long it keeps working, but come February, you will need to deal with upper VHF 7 & 12. How does the DB2 look on 7, 9, & 11 right now?

Oh man, you're going to make me hook up my TV again, aren't you? Hurumph! :) 7 analog has some snow but not too bad. 9 analog has a ghost image but it's consistent. 11 analog looks just fine. 5 analog sucks, and 2 analog is terrible.

If you have a pair of rabbit ears around, I would be curious to see what changes when you use them, but perhaps it's best to leave it alone while WBBM is working. :D

Actually, my reception with rabbit ears was what caused me to go with an external DB2. Reception was all over the place; during the day I could usually get WLS just fine, but at night it was bad news. Plus I couldn't find a single antenna position that worked with all of the channels. Once I went external and a bigger antenna, things went from iffy to rock-solid.

Nice typo.Thank you, Bob.

So the answer is that you were receiving it on a computer, not on a television, and the software analyzed the signal and gave you the information.

OK then, is it possible for a human watching an HD channel on a television set to distinguish native HD content from up conversions of SD content?* If so, how (other than assuming that anything in 16:9 is probably native HD and that anything in 4:3 is not, which would be right a good portion of the time but not all the time)?

I am receiving it on a tv.. And a computer... ok the computer is hooked up to the tv :D.. Seriously, I have connections on both and one should be able to tell the difference between HD and SD from the eye. 16 x 9 SD is not as clear as 16 x 9 HD. If everything is connected right then the picture on an HD picture should be noticeably more clear as there are more native pixels to the picture. SD wont be as clear because the image quality doesnt conatin the same pixle count as HD.

Also, the source is a big thing as I have seen some SD material look just as good as HD. Then again I have seen HD look like You Tube SD. I can tell you that the show on WYCC was either HD or a very very good SD source. Im 99 percent positive it was HD because it had the HD pop that SD normally doesn't have.

Bob, OK, thank you, but it seems to come down to having to start by learning with one's own eyes -- not someone else's words -- what to look for, and that requires knowing what one is looking at during the learning process.

At this point, when I watch an HD channel I'm not confident in my guesswork, and I lack any way to find out whether my guesses are right in order to develop and hone any skill.

I’m using TV Guide on Screen with my DMR-E85H and an Echostar TR-40. I have my TV Guide ZIP Code set to 00003 which is Chicago. Miraculously, everything appears to be working correctly (thanks to another posting between you and joe111671). When I go to the TV Guide Channel editor I don’t see an entry for MeToo or anything resembling any of the other call letters, such as WMEU-CA or WCIU-DT. I see about 20 pages of every other imaginable channel, including every cable station, but no MeToo. Any Ideas?

I’m using TV Guide on Screen with my DMR-E85H and an Echostar TR-40. I have my TV Guide ZIP Code set to 00003 which is Chicago. Miraculously, everything appears to be working correctly (thanks to another posting between you and joe111671). When I go to the TV Guide Channel editor I don’t see an entry for MeToo or anything resembling any of the other call letters, such as WMEU-CA or WCIU-DT. I see about 20 pages of every other imaginable channel, including every cable station, but no MeToo. Any Ideas?

We don't want you to watch our stuff. :D Just kidding. Who's your provider? Probably an error in their data. Wouldn't be the first time its happened.

Looks like I lost MeTv (58.3) out of Milwaukee for good. It's changes to a looping advertisement for ThisTv, which will be on that subchannel in November.

MeTv is now on 49.1, and I've been trying to get it, but I can't. It must be too low-powered.

Sucks, because they show stuff at different times than the one here. So that's one good channel I've lost so far.

It'd sure be nice if they could do that here, though - I mean, put ThisTv on 26.3 in place of MeToo (or, better yet - on 26.2, and drop both MeTv and MeToo). Then move MeToo to 23.2 (and then of course up the power on 23.1 and 23.2, so everyone can get it).

Or even better yet - put ThisTV on 23.3, too. But no need for any SD widescreen version of 26.1 on either channel, as long as the power on both is sufficient.

But I realize that upping the power on 23.1 would be going against their "budget".

Looks like I lost MeTv (58.3) out of Milwaukee for good. They're running a looping ad for ThisTv now, which will be on that subchannel in November.

MeTv is now on 49.1, and I've been trying to get it, but I can't. It must be too low-powered.

Sucks, because they show stuff at different times than the one here. So that's one good channel I've lost so far.

It'd sure be nice if they could move all the subchannels to 23 here and just up the power. (No need for any SD widescreen version of 26.1 on either channel, as long as the power on both is sufficient.)

But I realize that increasing the power on 23.1 would be going against their "budget".

To tell you the truth, I don't even like a lot of the MGM movies they're showing on the ThisTv ad - I could do without the channel altogether. Some of them are musicals, and I absolutely abhor musicals (I hate Elvis movies - they're a joke). All the other ones are movies I've seen a hundred times. Doesn't look like anything I'm going to really watch much.

But I realize that upping the power on 23.1 would be going against their "budget".

I doubt it has anything to do with budget and is more related to the FCC capping their power due to them being a low-powered station in a very crowded area.

If Kevin Martin gets his way and allows Class A stations to relicense as full-service stations, I imagine that WWME-LD would power up.

- Trip

Why can't I pick up Channel 9 over the air anymore? I used be able to get the digital channel a few months ago but now I get no signal? Did something change a few months ago?

Looks like I lost MeTv (58.3) out of Milwaukee for good. They're running a looping ad for ThisTv now, which will be on that subchannel in November.

MeTv is now on 49.1, and I've been trying to get it, but I can't. It must be too low-powered.

Sucks, because they show stuff at different times than the one here. So that's one good channel I've lost so far.

It'd sure be nice if they could move all the subchannels to 23 here and just up the power. (No need for any SD widescreen version of 26.1 on either channel, as long as the power on both is sufficient.)

But I realize that increasing the power on 23.1 would be going against their "budget".

To tell you the truth, I don't even like a lot of the MGM movies they're showing on the ThisTv ad - I could do without the channel altogether. Some of them are musicals, and I absolutely abhor musicals (I hate Elvis movies - they're a joke). All the other ones are movies I've seen a hundred times. Doesn't look like anything I'm going to really watch much.

Patience my dear Watson, patience.

Patience my dear Watson, patience.

You're probably not the guy to ask, or may not be able to say anything even if you do know, but...

Does This TV have a website up yet? I'd be interested to see what specific things it will have, and I'd like to see this demo reel. Not living anywhere near Chicago or Milwaukee makes it hard to turn on 58-3. :D

And I bet you definitely don't know or can't say anything about these 30 affiliates I read about. You know, things like which stations those are? :D I'm itching to find out.

- Trip

I don't if it's really what you'd call a "demo reel" - it's more like a looped "It's coming!" announcement for the channel, and they kind of allude to a few of the things they'll be showing, like Elvis movies, Dances with Wolves, Silence of the Lambs, etc.

There's one part where they ask trivia questions about a few movies, and from that you get the impression that those are movies and the types of movies that they'll be showing. As far as the Elvis part, they just show a still shot of him from one of his (hokey) old movies as a background in one shot.

They don't really show any movie scenes or actual lists - it's mainly talk and text.

I suppose some people who have had nothing but OTA their entire lives may not have seen these movies a thousand times, but that's not the case with me. So some may find it truly exciting. They are not the movies only the cable premium channels would show - they are the ones played over and over on the standard national cable channels over the years (like the two more recent above-mentioned films). I don't know what I was expecting - I figured they'd be popular, recent major motion pictures - I guess maybe I was just hoping for some I haven't seen so much. (But Elvis movies? That's even worse.)

I'm mainly itching to find out if ThisTV will carry the original Outer Limits. One of my favorite shows of all time.

If they do... I will want This TV in my area ASAP!

- Trip

No, only movies, as far as I know. That might already be shown on either MeTV or MeToo.

Now those channels most people would love. Hardly a bad or lame show on either. Mostly old, B&W's from the 50's and 60's, and some color thrown in (the really classic stuff like "Get Smart"). Great stuff. Makes you wonder what ever happened to good TV programming since then when you watch it.

http://www.broadcastingcable.com/article/CA6608561.html

This article suggests otherwise. I just want confirmation on Outer Limits before I get my hopes raised too much.

- Trip

Oh, that's cool then (they were showing the old O.L. on some channel here a couple of years back, so that's why I thought it might already be on). I see they mention "horror films". Maybe there is some hope for me then. Sounds pretty worthwhile.

Glad you cited that article (even if it does take forever and a year to download for some reason). Thanks. I wonder why they don't mention that stuff on the advertisement, though? That seems to me to be the stuff people would care more about.

I just really really hope they don't show too many musicals. I just find those things utterly ridiculous. I mean, standing out in the middle of nowhere, and all of a sudden breaking out into song, with a full, invisible orchestra backing you up coming from nowhere. C'mon! Or how about Elvis, when he's driving with Ann-Margaret down the highway and he turns on the radio in his car, and all of sudden starts singing - I mean lip-synching - the vocals to the song, while the music coming from the radio is only the backing track? Or West Side Story, where they're supposed to be a mean, tough bunch of gangbangers ready to kill each other, and then all of a sudden they start flitting around like a bunch of Nijinsky's? I know I'll probably get flamed big time, but outside of The Wizard of Oz when I was a little kid, I just could never get into that genre for anything.

We don't want you to watch our stuff. :D Just kidding. Who's your provider? Probably an error in their data. Wouldn't be the first time its happened.

I don't have a provider. That's why I bought the DTV Converter Box. Now it's starting to look like my analog TVGOS is not getting any listing data at all from the DTV-PAL. It can, however, change the channel on the DTV-PAL.

You're probably not the guy to ask, or may not be able to say anything even if you do know, but...

Does This TV have a website up yet? I'd be interested to see what specific things it will have, and I'd like to see this demo reel. Not living anywhere near Chicago or Milwaukee makes it hard to turn on 58-3. :D

And I bet you definitely don't know or can't say anything about these 30 affiliates I read about. You know, things like which stations those are? :D I'm itching to find out.

- Trip

No public site yet. What market are you in out there? I can tell you if you have a "This" affiliate or not.

I don't have a provider. That's why I bought the DTV Converter Box. Now it's starting to look like my analog TVGOS is not getting any listing data at all from the DTV-PAL. It can, however, change the channel on the DTV-PAL.I was just waiting to see if you really were getting it before I said anything or started telling people on the other threads. Nobody so far has gotten the TVGOS conversion feature to work.

I was just waiting to see if you really were getting it before I said anything or started telling people on the other threads. Nobody so far has gotten the TVGOS conversion feature to work.

Thanks for that info, even though it's not what I wanted to hear. I'll stop banging my head on this one (for a little while anyway). I'll let you know if I ever get past this block.

No public site yet. What market are you in out there? I can tell you if you have a "This" affiliate or not.

When I'm home, I'm in the Roanoke market. When I'm at school, as I am now, I'm in the Charlottesville market. I doubt there's an affiliate in Charlottesville since there's only two OTA commercial digital signals here, but I'm hoping for some good news about Roanoke!

Also, when I'm home, I can see some of the Richmond stations, but not all of them.

- Trip

i need some help on something i am looking on buying a 32 inch hdtv for christmas and i would like to know what is a good antenna that i can hook to my directv am21 so i can receive some good tv channels I need something easy to use any help would be very appreicated

Thanks

i need some help on something i am looking on buying a 32 inch hdtv for christmas and i would like to know what is a good antenna that i can hook to my directv am21 so i can receive some good tv channels I need something easy to use any help would be very appreicated

Thanks

What city are you in? Can you put up an outdoor antenna? Do you just want Chicago, or do you want Milwaukee, south Bend, etc.?

Streator illinois 100 miles southwest of chicago i would like to get an indoor antenna because i do not know how to put up an outdoor antenna

Streator illinois 100 miles southwest of chicago i would like to get an indoor antenna because i do not know how to put up an outdoor antenna

You wont get much with an Indoor antenna as your too far out. I live in Manteno, only 45 miles out and have to have an out door antenna. For you,I would recommend professional installation, An outdoor antenna, with Preamp. There's no way around it as you stimply too far out.

When I'm home, I'm in the Roanoke market. When I'm at school, as I am now, I'm in the Charlottesville market. I doubt there's an affiliate in Charlottesville since there's only two OTA commercial digital signals here, but I'm hoping for some good news about Roanoke!

Also, when I'm home, I can see some of the Richmond stations, but not all of them.

- Trip

Congrats, your getting THIS! I don't know which station but as I understand it 11/1 you'll have it in Roanoke.

Update: under further review by the replay officials, it has been determined that Roanoke was not the market getting This. Sorry about that.

This TV Chicago is now available on 26.4.

This TV Chicago is now available on 26.4.

Is "this" sending a backhaul to satellite anywhere? Or can't you say :confused::eek:

This TV Chicago is now available on 26.4.

The 26 identifier is gone on the Samsung SIRT451, and the channels now show up as 27-1 through 27-5.

On the Tivo, 26-4 does not lock, but the other subchannels seem normal.

Seems there is still a glitch.

Yes, the channels are now mapping 27-3 through 27-6, and 27-8 for FBT on my TV as well.

Is "this" sending a backhaul to satellite anywhere? Or can't you say :confused::eek:

"This TV's" distribution is through satellite.

I just want confirmation on Outer Limits before I get my hopes raised too much.

- Trip

Don't know about ThisTV, but MeToo here in Chicago shows the OL every Sunday at 7!!! I enjoy the show. Special effects are cheesy, but often good story lines done by future well known SciFi authors.

I'm mainly itching to find out if ThisTV will carry the original Outer Limits. One of my favorite shows of all time.

If they do... I will want This TV in my area ASAP!

- Trip

According to the guide on my receiver Outer Limits is the first program being shown when it signs on at 4am.

Don't know about ThisTV, but MeToo here in Chicago shows the OL every Sunday at 7!!! I enjoy the show. Special effects are cheesy, but often good story lines done by future well known SciFi authors.See! I thought it was on one of them.

Note: all of the WCIU subchannels look terrible now.

"This TV's" distribution is through satellite.

Can you tell us if it's on C or Ku band, what satellite and is it on and is it DVB Mpeg 2 or S2 etc? Like to find the backhaul with my big dish if I can. :) If you don't want to post the info here you can PM me this info if alright for you to do so. Thank's in advance.

See! I thought it was on one of them.

Note: all of the WCIU subchannels look terrible now.

I noticed 23.1 looks sharper than 26.2 now. this seems to have some sharpness to it, could be there's a few more bits being sent over there.

I noticed 23.1 looks sharper than 26.2 now. this seems to have some sharpness to it, could be there's a few more bits being sent over there.

Exactly the same stream for both.

"This TV's" distribution is through satellite.

i take this to mean that you just pass along the signal
you get from the satellite...

are the public service announcements (PSA) also
being fed through the satellite feed?

being deaf i rely on closed captioning
the DTT 901 is set for digital and the TV is set up for analog captions

so far i have not seen any captioning on THIS TV
even for the PSA's

on Si ME i get Xena with captions in english - makes my day

comments, criticisms and questions of sanity are always welcome

Exactly the same stream for both.

Must have been the content was better on 26.4 vs 26.2 when I checked.

Here's one for you guys- recently I swapped my powered splitter from a four way to an eight way, same brand splitter, but now I wasn't able to lock those problem childs (Ch. 2 & Ch.7) with any consistency. I was using the W-gard 8000 with NO preamp (before the splitter change) because the preamp wouild over load my splitter but after the splitter swap I now needed to add a preamp:confused:. I guess my question is why would the preamp now be necessary post change?

since adding the preamp, I've noticed better signal quality on my furthest display aprox. 380' from the mast- Im not complaining but a simple little change in the link sure can show its ugly head (today is Halloween:))

Here's one for you guys- recently I swapped my powered splitter from a four way to an eight way, same brand splitter, but now I wasn't able to lock those problem childs (Ch. 2 & Ch.7) with any consistency. I was using the W-gard 8000 with NO preamp (before the splitter change) because the preamp wouild over load my splitter but after the splitter swap I now needed to add a preamp:confused:. I guess my question is why would the preamp now be necessary post change?

since adding the preamp, I've noticed better signal quality on my furthest display aprox. 380' from the mast- Im not complaining but a simple little change in the link sure can show its ugly head (today is Halloween:))

Maybe this 8-port indoor amp has a higher input rating than the 4-port one? Plus, are you sure the preamp was overdriven or was it the receiver? If it was the receiver, I can see why the preamp helps now.

i take this to mean that you just pass along the signal
you get from the satellite...

are the public service announcements (PSA) also
being fed through the satellite feed?

being deaf i rely on closed captioning
the DTT 901 is set for digital and the TV is set up for analog captions

so far i have not seen any captioning on THIS TV
even for the PSA's

on Si ME i get Xena with captions in english - makes my day

comments, criticisms and questions of sanity are always welcome

Thanks for the info. We'll look into it tonight.

Can you tell us if it's on C or Ku band, what satellite and is it on and is it DVB Mpeg 2 or S2 etc? Like to find the backhaul with my big dish if I can. :) If you don't want to post the info here you can PM me this info if alright for you to do so. Thank's in advance.

Yea Im kind of intrested in what slot its on too. I know the RTN stuff that is S2 AND fta has quite a following. I know they would love METV, METOO and This TV.

Maybe this 8-port indoor amp has a higher input rating than the 4-port one? Plus, are you sure the preamp was overdriven or was it the receiver? If it was the receiver, I can see why the preamp helps now.

I'm not really sure how to tell which one was acting up in the 4-port, preamp installed configuration. Originally when I put the antenna w/preamp up I never could get good signal until the preamp was taken out of the chain, but as I think back I just checked it (signal) with only 1 of my TV's. It very well could have been an overdriven reciever, but being the pack rat I am, I kept the preamp and resurrected it last week for another call of duty;).

BTW, the antenna is a 8200 not 8000.

Oh, and there is some mention of OL, watch out for those zantees...

Here's one for you guys- recently I swapped my powered splitter from a four way to an eight way, same brand splitter, but now I wasn't able to lock those problem childs (Ch. 2 & Ch.7) with any consistency. I was using the W-gard 8000 with NO preamp (before the splitter change) because the preamp wouild over load my splitter but after the splitter swap I now needed to add a preamp:confused:. I guess my question is why would the preamp now be necessary post change?

since adding the preamp, I've noticed better signal quality on my furthest display aprox. 380' from the mast- Im not complaining but a simple little change in the link sure can show its ugly head (today is Halloween:))


Believe it or not, it sounds like you are overdoing it. Can you tell me the specs of the 8-way splitter:

What the gain is (amplification in dB) of the 8-way splitter, and what the gain of the 4-way is;

What the noise level is of the 8 way

That should yield some interesting results and probably tell me what's going on.

Believe it or not, it sounds like you are overdoing it. Can you tell me the specs of the 8-way splitter:

What the gain is (amplification in dB) of the 8-way splitter, and what the gain of the 4-way is;

What the noise level is of the 8 way

That should yield some interesting results and probably tell me what's going on.

Hi Gilbert, good to "hear" from you. Once again you got me through the smoke and mirrors:). I checked my 4-port (pack ratted in my basment) and it had a +8db gain and the my current one (8 port) has a +4 db gain- probably the reason the preamp works now? The specs read a 3.8db noise figure, so I'm guessing that's what your looking for. A little plug for the ChannelVision brand, they are able to distribute 2 inputs- 1 for ota and 1 for closed circuit cameras- kind of a nice touch if you need it.

OT but why not- do any of the new HD D* receivers have a built in OTA tuner?

Guess what guys, Im buying a house... That means I can finally get that 4228 up in the air and off a ground level pole! YAY! It also means I can go Cband hunting. :) Im hearing there is some smoking stuff up there! Cant wait to get out of this freaking apartment.

Hi Gilbert, good to "hear" from you. Once again you got me through the smoke and mirrors:). I checked my 4-port (pack ratted in my basment) and it had a +8db gain and the my current one (8 port) has a +4 db gain- probably the reason the preamp works now? The specs read a 3.8db noise figure, so I'm guessing that's what your looking for. A little plug for the ChannelVision brand, they are able to distribute 2 inputs- 1 for ota and 1 for closed circuit cameras- kind of a nice touch if you need it.

OT but why not- do any of the new HD D* receivers have a built in OTA tuner?

Actually, this is weird, but with a 4 dB gain, and a 3.8 dB noise level, your actual gain is not much. And I have found with digital, any amp/preamp with a noise level of 4 dB or higher (and especially at 5 dB) makes the digital signal either go out entirely, or reduces the quality of the signal to noise ratio. So yes, that's why it probably works now...your other one probably has higher noise, and the higher the noise, the more it gets amplified downstream.

Part two: nope, but the new ones do have an add-on you can use.

Guess what guys, Im buying a house... That means I can finally get that 4228 up in the air and off a ground level pole! YAY! It also means I can go Cband hunting. :) Im hearing there is some smoking stuff up there! Cant wait to get out of this freaking apartment.

You should have fun with that, I assume you are staying in the area. Housing prices these days are, um, coming down. :eek: Put that sucker on a rotor and you should be getting some serious stuff if it goes on a tower, or a roof!

From WLS-DT engineering:

"We are planning on doing the testing on November 8-14 from 1am-4:45am".

So...mark your calendars now, they will be turning off analog 7 and throwing on their digital signal for almost 3 hours on physical channel 7, so you can test to see if you can get it during those dates and time frames. The test will be 4.75 kw from high atop Sears Tower.


I awake out of my sleeping slumber to check the signal on Digital 7 to realize im a week early :D

On the bright side WYCC is showing someing in widescreen SD, check that spengoolie is on METV, Ill stick with that :)

Ok back to bed now that I have greeted DST with a scan of my digital tuner.. :)

You should have fun with that, I assume you are staying in the area. Housing prices these days are, um, coming down. :eek: Put that sucker on a rotor and you should be getting some serious stuff if it goes on a tower, or a roof!


OH am I going to!!!!!!!!!!

Gilbert, thanks again for your help and G**99 welcome to the American Dream;).

around 3 am sunday morning, during the movie 'cold steel',
the closed captioning on THIS TV magically came to life

thank you very much for what ever button / switch was pushed

kd9fz
comments, criticisms or questions of sanity are always welcome

Any news if Fox32 is going to do there news in HD like everybody else.

Hmm.  Six of the seven digital stations that still were on DST Saturday stayed on DST Sunday; only WCIU-DT switched.  Even WWME-LD was still on DST, though you'd think that if WCIU-DT had it right then WWME-LD would as well.

The eight stations that were on premature ST by Saturday were correctly on ST Sunday, as was WCIU-DT.

We'll see how things are Monday.

For the record, WBBM-DT, WMAQ-DT, WLS-DT, WGN-DT, WTTW-DT, WYCC-DT, WFLD-DT, and WSNS-DT were on ST too soon.  WWME-LD, WCPX-DT, WPWR-DT, WXFT-DT, WJYS-DT, and WGBO-DT were still on DST Sunday.  Only WCIU-DT had it right both days.

Hmm.* Six of the seven digital stations that still were on DST Saturday stayed on DST Sunday; only WCIU-DT switched.* Even WWME-LD was still on DST, though you'd think that if WCIU-DT had it right then WWME-LD would as well.

The eight stations that were on premature ST by Saturday were correctly on ST Sunday, as was WCIU-DT.

We'll see how things are Monday.

For the record, WBBM-DT, WMAQ-DT, WLS-DT, WGN-DT, WTTW-DT, WYCC-DT, WFLD-DT, and WSNS-DT were on ST too soon.* WWME-LD, WCPX-DT, WPWR-DT, WXFT-DT, WJYS-DT, and WGBO-DT were still on DST Sunday.* Only WCIU-DT had it right both days.

WWME-LD's time was changed, just have to power cycle a box in the transmitter room for it to take.

WWME-LD's time was changed, just have to power cycle a box in the transmitter room for it to take.Thank you.  I won't post any more about it until I notice that it's taken effect.

Edits: about 4:45 PM CST on 2008-11-03 WWME-LD was on ST; by 6:30 WCPX-DT and WPWR-DT were on ST.  That leaves WXFT-DT, WJYS-DT, and WGBO-DT still on DST.

Tuned to WBBM-DT just in time for CSI Miami to see the signal go out on my long lead; it is coming in very weak on the shorter lead. All my VHF analogs are still crystal clear.

Is anyone else who is normally able to watch WBBM having trouble with channel 3 tonight?

Scratch that. The WBBM-DT signal is now completely gone. Must be them. Have...to...switch..to...analog...

Hope they get channel 12 right; I'd love to see how it comes out here.

Long,

I have WBBM out here at 30%. Unlockable, but I "see" it.

Ramm: Channel 8 LD in Kane County delayed at least another month due to unspecified issues. No timeline still on channel 4 Chicago LD.

Hey Gilbert,

Checked back in the morning, and 'BBM is back to normal. They must have had a transmitter issue last night, because I could see the signal dying out beginning with the start of CSI Miami. By the end of the hour, there was zero signal. I tried inquiring on line about it but never heard back. Probably nobody bothered let alone took notice because it's hard to get anyway.

Wow - I didn't know you could even get a blip of channel 3 out there. If there was only a little boost, even if only to a 45% signal level, you'd lock it. People have said that VHF High is a better performer, but I guess we'll see on WLS beginning this weekend.

Regards.

While Channel 2 was very late to the HD party, they certainly came through tonight. They had, by far, the best PQ from Grant Park. While I couldn't be there, I certainly felt like I was.

Channel 5 was like watching an old SD signal and was completely unwatchable (thank God Warner Saunders is out the door soon), Channel 7 looked ok, but not as sharp as Channel 2.
Channel 9 should have just had on a rerun on Friends, if they can't even deliver a widescreen SD shot on their live coverage.

I have a problem, I was hoping someone here would know the answer. I'm missing green. Yes, green. I have a Samsung ATSC external tuner connected via HDMI to a A/V tuner set via HDMI to a projector. I've noticed that during Bears' games I'm missing the green field. Instead it's a very merky, film like green. No matter how much tweeking I do, green won't get any greener? I have a Bluray and HD and DVD hooked to the same A/V tuner with no noticable problems with green, but I don't have any football games on disc so I really don't know if I'm missing that color green. So, can it be the Samsung tuner that's not processing the green properly or is it somewhere else. I hope this problem doesn't sound too silly. And if anyone has any green to spare, it would be much appreciated...

While Channel 2 was very late to the HD party, they certainly came through tonight. They had, by far, the best PQ from Grant Park. While I couldn't be there, I certainly felt like I was.

Channel 5 was like watching an old SD signal and was completely unwatchable (thank God Warner Saunders is out the door soon), Channel 7 looked ok, but not as sharp as Channel 2.
Channel 9 should have just had on a rerun on Friends, if they can't even deliver a widescreen SD shot on their live coverage.


You should have seen the 40 mbps FTA feed that was coming from grant park lastnight HOLY CRAP! I could get used to that, and it even put WBBM to shame. LOL But WBBM did look very good.

Who Killed the HD quality at WCIU?

I would like to tell that man what I think...

I turned on the bulls game for the first time over at WCIU in a long time in HD and what do I see??? A 16 X 9 You tube, Blocky version of of the bulls game. How do you even call this HD.

Sub Channels, especially this look very blocky.

Why is 26-6 even on WCIU's Sub Channel. Why not put it along with Me TV over at 23-2 as its a LP station too. That would free up some band with over on the very very Crowded dt 27. Hell why not remove the channel all together.

There was once when WCIU looked great. Now its just another one of those bit starving stations.

All we need is for WBBM to start a sub channel and we will be at an end of an era, where HDTV quality by broadcasters is now a thing of the past. What kills me is broadcasters are trying to do things with their signal that is designed for MPEG4. Why in the hell did we even implement this system in Mpeg2 if the broadcasters were going to try to jam an HDTV channel along with 5 or 6 SD channels together. Arrrghhhh! LOL

So who do I contact at WCIU? Im sure the engineers had nothing to do with this and some idiot programming guy had a bright idea to get more revinue by cramming more channels no one watches on DT27. (minus metv, metoo, and this)

Hmm.  Azteca America is no longer carried by WOCK-CA on channel 13 but by WLFM-LP (if those are still its call letters) on 6 and WCHU-LP on 61, both of which used to carry MTV Tr3s.

WOCK-CA now has something called "CV" or "Cablevision Network," which may or may not have any connection with the cable provider named Cablevision that was acquired by Optimum.

Long,

I have WBBM out here at 30%. Unlockable, but I "see" it.

Ramm: Channel 8 LD in Kane County delayed at least another month due to unspecified issues. No timeline still on channel 4 Chicago LD.Thanks. Is that 8 the real channel number?

What is channel 4? I don't remember if I caught that or not.

Who Killed the HD quality at WCIU?

I would like to tell that man what I think...

I turned on the bulls game for the first time over at WCIU in a long time in HD and what do I see??? A 16 X 9 You tube, Blocky version of of the bulls game. How do you even call this HD.

Sub Channels, especially this look very blocky.

Why is 26-6 even on WCIU's Sub Channel. Why not put it along with Me TV over at 23-2 as its a LP station too. That would free up some band with over on the very very Crowded dt 27. Hell why not remove the channel all together.Yes. 26.6 is completely unwatchable now. What's the point of even having it? I had it programmed in, but blocked it out.

ThisTV has lots of blocking on movement, and MeToo has noticable blocking all the time, too (both have practically looked as bad as those high school basketball games on MeTV a couple of years back on occasion). I don't see as much degradation on MeTV, but it's definitely there. As far as the main channel, I really haven't been watching it that much, and I haven't watched any sports on it yet. But every channel looks a bit softer to me.

(Also, the channels have been mapping wrong for like a week now - are they ever going to get on the stick about that? It's the only channel that this regularly happens on, for cryin' out loud.)

ThisTV has lots of blocking on movement,

But every channel looks a bit softer to me.



This does not show up on the satellite backhaul feed so it has to do with the OTA mux.



(Also, the channels have been mapping wrong for like a week now - are they ever going to get on the stick about that? It's the only channel that this regularly happens on, for cryin' out loud.)

I noticed that once on my DTT 900, A friend of mine is noticing that quite a bit on his DTV.

Who Killed the HD quality at WCIU?

I would like to tell that man what I think...

I turned on the bulls game for the first time over at WCIU in a long time in HD and what do I see??? A 16 X 9 You tube, Blocky version of of the bulls game. How do you even call this HD.

Sub Channels, especially this look very blocky.

Why is 26-6 even on WCIU's Sub Channel. Why not put it along with Me TV over at 23-2 as its a LP station too. That would free up some band with over on the very very Crowded dt 27. Hell why not remove the channel all together.

There was once when WCIU looked great. Now its just another one of those bit starving stations.

All we need is for WBBM to start a sub channel and we will be at an end of an era, where HDTV quality by broadcasters is now a thing of the past. What kills me is broadcasters are trying to do things with their signal that is designed for MPEG4. Why in the hell did we even implement this system in Mpeg2 if the broadcasters were going to try to jam an HDTV channel along with 5 or 6 SD channels together. Arrrghhhh! LOL

So who do I contact at WCIU? Im sure the engineers had nothing to do with this and some idiot programming guy had a bright idea to get more revinue by cramming more channels no one watches on DT27. (minus metv, metoo, and this)

You watching the game via Comcast or OTA? 26.1's bitrate hasn't change in a year. It stays the same. As for moving subchannels over to other channels, there's a very good reason they're all crammed onto 27 and its not to see how many we can get away with.

Yes. 26.6 is completely unwatchable now. What's the point of even having it? I had it programmed in, but blocked it out.

ThisTV has lots of blocking on movement, and MeToo has noticable blocking all the time, too (both have practically looked as bad as those high school basketball games on MeTV a couple of years back on occasion). I don't see as much degradation on MeTV, but it's definitely there. As far as the main channel, I really haven't been watching it that much, and I haven't watched any sports on it yet. But every channel looks a bit softer to me.

(Also, the channels have been mapping wrong for like a week now - are they ever going to get on the stick about that? It's the only channel that this regularly happens on, for cryin' out loud.)

I'll check into the channel mapping issue. We know what causes it and fixed it a week ago when we added 26.4 and changed time.

Thanks. Is that 8 the real channel number?

What is channel 4? I don't remember if I caught that or not.

Yep, those are the real channel numbers, and channel 4 is WOCK-LD. Whenever it signs on...or if it does.

You watching the game via Comcast or OTA? 26.1's bitrate hasn't change in a year. It stays the same. As for moving subchannels over to other channels, there's a very good reason they're all crammed onto 27 and its not to see how many we can get away with.


Im watching via OTA. My signal was good. It was noticable on when the bulls were running up and down the court.

Also, the channels [of WCIU-DT] have been mapping wrong for like a week now - are they ever going to get on the stick about that? It's the only channel that this regularly happens on, for cryin' out loud.

I noticed that once on my DTT 900, A friend of mine is noticing that quite a bit on his DTV.

How are they mapping?  Every time I rescan on any of my tuners, they're in the same places: The U on .1, MeTV on .2, MeToo on .3, ThisTV on .4, and FBT on .6.

As for moving subchannels over to other channels, there's a very good reason they're all crammed onto 27 ...And the reason is proprietary, I gather.

I don't see as much degradation on MeTV, but it's definitely there.I see as much on 26.2 as on the others.

I'd venture to guess that the reason is that WCIU-DT 27 is at full power whereas WWME-LD 39 is a very low-powered signal that has interference concerns with stations in Grand Rapids, Fort Wayne, and Rockford.

- Trip

How are they mapping?* Every time I rescan on any of my tuners, they're in the same places: The U on .1, MeTV on .2, MeToo on .3, ThisTV on .4, and FBT on .6.They seem alright now, but I think they started at 27.3 on up. Same place they always end up when they go astray like that. And it was on both the tuners I'm currently using (maybe you scanned after they fixed it?).

I guess you're right about 26.2 being just as bad, now that I really look - I just haven't noticed it as much depending on the show or the TV I'm watching it on.

I'd venture to guess that the reason is that WCIU-DT 27 is at full power whereas WWME-LD 39 is a very low-powered signal that has interference concerns with stations in Grand Rapids, Fort Wayne, and Rockford.

- Trip
Thats part of it.

Is anybody with Vista Media Center/TV Pack 2008 successfully getting 26.4 This TV?

It's not showing up in the episode guide listings yet, and a scan for channels over the weekend didn't pick up 26.4.

Also, is This TV broadcasting in 480i 4:3, 480p 16:9, or what?

I think this is in 480P 4:3. Anyone going to stay up tonight for the ABC7 DT7 test?

Is anybody with Vista Media Center/TV Pack 2008 successfully getting 26.4 This TV?

It's not showing up in the episode guide listings yet, and a scan for channels over the weekend didn't pick up 26.4.

Also, is This TV broadcasting in 480i 4:3, 480p 16:9, or what?

480i 4:3

maybe this link can answer one or two questions on THIS TV

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/This_TV


comments, criticisms and questions of sanity are always welcome
kd9fz

As Goaliebob mentioned, if all goes well, tonight is the first of 6 nights that WLS-DT will test their Sears Tower post-transition digital transmitter and power. I've fired off a letter to WLS Engineering asking them to "check in" on this forum so that they can see how far they are getting out, and reception quality. They will be broadcasting at 4,750 watts, or 4.75 kw from Sears Tower at their final location, between 1 AM and 4:45 AM. Here's what you can do help out. Post here when you see the test going on, and:

1. State your location as specific as possible without giving away an address (examples: near downtown Wheaton, northwest side of DeKalb, 75th and whatever street in Chicago)

2. State your receiver (examples: Samsung HDTV model ZA7865-32, Zenith DTT-901 converter box)

3. State your antenna (examples: Radio Shack VU-190, a VHF-only 32 element antenna, Winegard HD 7084P, rabbit ears), and where it is located (on top of my TV in the basement, or first floor, or attic, or rooftop).

4. State if you are using a preamp, if so, name the brand/model if you can.

5. State your reception quality. The BEST number, by a wide margin, is your signal to noise ratio. Most receivers do NOT have this feature, but if you do, this is gold to them. Say: Solid at 24:1, fluctuating between 21:1 and 30:1, etc. If, like me, you have a meter that shows signal quality (falsely known as signal strength), say "I get WLS at around 75% but it still breaks up" or "I got it at 20% with no signal", or, hopefully, "I got it at around 80% and it was rock-solid".

6. State the time(s) and dates you were watching, as this is a multi-day test, and what program you saw.

7. Note anything else you think might be important. Is PSIP messed up? Is the audio bad? Anything that doesn't fit above can go here.

Remember, once we hit February 17th, this is what we have to work with, so let's make sure we give them the best evaluation possible. If it isn't enough, they'll have documentation and can go from there, or if it is, they can throw the switch, sit back and relax in February. Well, that's a monster stretch. :D
Anyway, I tried to call them tonight, no answer. Hope the test is still on! Will alert otherwise if it isn't and I find out about it.

Note: you likely will have to do a rescan to see them. Or, on some tuners, tell it to tune to RF channel 7 and it should come up.

Im waiting :D :)

BTW current bitrates over at WCIU DT27 is..


WCIUHD 9 mbps
METV 2.5 mbps
METOO 2.5 mbps
THIS 2.5 mbps
That ****** channel no one cares about :D 1.08 mbps

Over at dt39

We have METV at 2.5mbps
and 16mbps of null packets screaming for some High def!!!

Woooo hooooo analog 7 is off air! :D

Woooo hooooo analog 7 is off air!Yes, but WLS-DT is broadcasting on both VHF7 and UHF52, so when I tune in 7.1, 7.2, or 7.3 on a television, I can't tell whether it's showing UHF52 or VHF7.  With some of my CECBs I can delete channel RF52 and then know positively that I'm watching RF7, but that will have to wait until after I log out.

WLS-DT physical channel 7 report -

Testing old tuners after re-scan with a rooftop Winegard 7084P in Arlington Heights reveals no noticeable signal fluctuation:

Samsung SIRT451 - 10/10 bars (PSIP normal)
PC (HDTV Wonder card) - 94% steady lock

Saw analog 7 go off the air, so I know what I'm getting. Signal seems slightly stronger and more rigid than channel 52. I think this bodes well for VHF High reception on outdoor antennas, but I'd be curious if someone could get this with rabbit ears.

hello all ,
i am in demotte in, from tvfools.com about 52 miles south/southeast of Chicago i have a Phillips mant 901 ant, winegard hda-100 amp, and on both my samsung hl-s6767w tv and my dtx9950 converter box i got from radio shack i got a solid signal about 90 % on each ones signal meter. all the info from the psip seams to be working fine, watching the replay of the 10 pm news

oh yea, also with the signal one ch 52 i only get about 50 % signal all the time , so i cant wait for it to go to ch 7 for good

now to just got everything straight so i can get channel 2-1 in again

WLS-TV 7 left the air promptly at 1:07 am. DT 52 remains on the air, and DT 7 is also on the air. I had to force all tuners to lock 7 DT and reject 52 DT. Both map to 7.1 and my sets defaulted to 52. Once I killed 52 I got the following test results from Plainfield, IL using an outdoor tower mounted antenna (Winegard HD 8200):

Main TV uses D*TV HR10-250. DT52 has peak of 95, low of 88 average of 95. DT7 has peak of 95, low of 92 average of 95.

2nd TV is a Samsung TXR3079. DT52 has peak of 6.5 bars. DT7 has peak of 7 bars.

3rd TV uses CECB Insignia NS-DXA1-APT. DT 52 has around 85%. DT 7 is closer to 90%.

Verdict: Better signal on VHF 7 than UHF 52. Much more solid signal, less fluctuation. No pixelation or other signal problems noted.

WLS-DT is airing a rerun of the 10PM newscast in SD.

There is hope for WBBM DT 12.

1. Manteno, IL on Todd Court
2. Pansat 9200, Pinnacle PCTV card, Hauppauge HVR1800 (htpc w/ tsreader), D* HR20-700.
3. Channel Master 4228 Bay antenna at ground level outside on pole, The Antenna is aimed for Sears Tower and John Hancock building at 17 degrees from my location and peaked with an ATSC Signal meter for Channel 23.1 METV.
4. Channel Master 7777 Preamp
5. Pre Switch over on 52, VERY SOLID, All my signal meters on all equipment is maxed out at 100 Percent, TSREADER shows -4000 signal. Analogue 7 comes in very clear with some crystals on the screen and minor horizontal lines going from the top right to the bottom left of the screen.
(Currently watching opera at 1135pm on 11/7/08
6. After switch over, on TS reader the signal is in SOLID -1000, or Zero at times, no breakups. On my Pansat 9200 I moved from a 100 percent to 80 percent with Intermittent half second breakups every 15 seconds, but for the most part it comes in good. ON the Pinnacle card I moved from 100 percent signal and quality to 84 percent.

My Observations, For the most part the signal is solid, with some breakups. This could easily be averted with an authorized power increase. What I’m worried about is the fact that signals generally travel farther at night when the VHF band opens, and come daylight I might lose the signal. Comparing DT52 to DT7 I have noticed a loss of about ¼ of the signal that I get with dt 52, from DT7, but overall the signal is very good. I would like to also note the CM 4228 handles channel’s 7 and above very well especially for a UHF only antenna. I can’t wait to get this puppy on the roof and see what it can do! I’m extremely happy, now if we can get WBBM up with the game over at DT 12 instead of 3, I would be even happier. IM glad that im not loosing DT7, but I would like to see ABC ask for a power increase to match their current analogue power. With that said, very well done ABC!
One Last note I was unable to test out on my HR20-700 because DirecTV maps in the channels for you. This is a pain in the ass. If you could request DirecTV to add the post DTV transition mappings in their receivers for us that would be great. Thanks.

1. State your location as specific as possible without giving away an address (examples: near downtown Wheaton, northwest side of DeKalb, 75th and whatever street in Chicago)


I am on the northwest side of DeKalb, near cross streets Bethany Road and Annie Glidden road, just east of there.


2. State your receiver (examples: Samsung HDTV model ZA7865-32, Zenith DTT-901 converter box)


I have a Zenith DTT-900 digital converter box to receive your signal (6th generation tuner).


3. State your antenna (examples: Radio Shack VU-190, a VHF-only 32 element antenna, Winegard HD 7084P, rabbit ears), and where it is located (on top of my TV in the basement, or first floor, or attic, or rooftop).


I have a 20 year old Winegard VHF-only (channels 2-13) antenna, roughly 12'
in length with about 30 active elements, pointed towards Sears Tower in the attic of my one-story townhome. On either side of me, and just south of the angle where the signal is coming from (Sears), there is another townhome 100' away to my east-southeast. I am rather low near a river valley, and just east of the "headwaters" of a creek. A small 10' high tree is near the line of sight about 30' east-southeast from my townhouse.


4. State if you are using a preamp, if so, name the brand/model if you can.


From the antenna, I am using 15' of quad-shielded RG-6 cable which then goes into a ChannelMaster 7777 preamp. It combines with a Channelmaster 4228 8-bay UHF antenna with classic mesh screen and aluminum foil on the back for added again. Not that it matters, just for reference. From there, it's 30' of quad-shielded RG-6 to my walll outlet, and 3' to my converter box using standard consumer-grade RG-6 connectors (crimped, not the nice pressure sealed ones used now).


5. State your reception quality. The BEST number, by a wide margin, is your signal to noise ratio. Most receivers do NOT have this feature, but if you do, this is gold to them. Say: Solid at 24:1, fluctuating between 21:1 and 30:1, etc. If, like me, you have a meter that shows signal quality (falsely known as signal strength), say "I get WLS at around 75% but it still breaks up" or "I got it at 20% with no signal", or, hopefully, "I got it at around 80% and it was rock-solid".


With a temperature of 34 degrees, and a south-southwest winds of 15-25 MPH at the surface, and with a little drizzle, sleet and snow flurries falling, there is no tropo evident nor "sparklies" on analog 9, which sometimes happens on analog 7 and 9. My reception is fluctuating between roughly 65% and 75%, with 70% being an average. 50% is required to at least get PSIP and breakup, and 55% is a solid lock. Since I started watching, there have been no picture breakups---not one. I am pleasantly surprised. Wait, just had one, when my heater kicked on. It spouts quite the sparkly on analog, even on UHF channels, when that happens. It is just a lightning quick "zap", but it drops the audio for a split second on WLS.


6. State the time(s) and dates you were watching, as this is a multi-day test, and what program you saw.


On Saturday, November 8, from 1:13 AM to 1:38 AM, I saw a rerun of the WLS 10 PM newscast. It was in standard definition on 7.1, as broadcast on physical channel 7. At 1:40 AM, I saw the re-rerun of the 10 PM newscast, or at least the start of it, until 1:54 AM.


7. Note anything else you think might be important. Is PSIP messed up? Is the audio bad? Anything that doesn't fit above can go here.


My DTT-900 now has two 7.1's, 7.2's, and 7.3's active, since the WLS-DT digital signal on 52 is still on the air, and there is only a slight drop in signal from what I normally get on the digital signal from 52. But I wonder: if I get electrical interference on 7, as I get on some days, will I still lock you? We'll see, in the nights to come. PSIP is identical on the digital signal on RF channel 7, just like it is on 52. Sound is fine. Everything looks great. I am surprised at how well I am getting this.

Did also notice that 52 is still on the air, so I could not single out WLS-DT7 on the Tivo HD.
With the Samsung, I had to scroll up/down in the add+delete channels area to pinpoint physical channel 7, and the rescan on the PC TV card brought up channel 7 in the correct order right after WBBM on the VHF when I did the manual tune, so all's good there.

IMHO, they should shut off 52 while broadcasting on 7, so that people can test easier without the channel mapping data overlapping. Some machines, such as the Tivo, do not seem to allow a manual tune override.

IMHO, they should shut off 52 while broadcasting on 7, so that people can test easier without the channel mapping data overlapping. Some machines, such as the Tivo, do not seem to allow a manual tune override.

Bet they won't do that because some D*TV tuners do an automatic daily rescan and it would cause 7.1 to come up empty during regular viewing hours. I had that happen a few years ago when WCIU finally stopped mapping to 1.1 and my D*TV tuner took the snapshot while they were at 5.1. I called and talked with Norm Shapiro and he said that was a momentary stop on the way up to 26.1, but my tuner caught it. A manual rescan corrected the problem.

Did also notice that 52 is still on the air, so I could not single out WLS-DT7 on the Tivo HD.
With the Samsung, I had to scroll up/down in the add+delete channels area to pinpoint physical channel 7, and the rescan on the PC TV card brought up channel 7 in the correct order right after WBBM on the VHF when I did the manual tune, so all's good there.

IMHO, they should shut off 52 while broadcasting on 7, so that people can test easier without the channel mapping data overlapping. Some machines, such as the Tivo, do not seem to allow a manual tune override.


I don't think they can because people like comcast,dish and Directv capture their signal ota and then deliver it from that antenna via fiber to their uplinks. Unless they are fiber fed directly from the station to the pop. Also, I think it would be an FCC issue if they did shut down on 52 during the testing. Oh well im done for the night.. Night all :)

There is hope for WBBM DT 12.

Tom, they're going to be nearly 2 times stronger than WLS on Sears Tower. We should be able to lock them in Timbuktu! :eek: :D

Tom, they're going to be nearly 3 times stronger than WLS on Sears Tower. We should be able to lock them in Timbuktu! :eek: :D

It's about time!!!! But I'm with goaliebob, what is going to happen during daylight hours?

This is posted for my colleague Ron. He lives on the DeKalb/Sycamore border on the north side of DeKalb, just south of Kishwaukee Hospital.

He has a Zenith DTT-901 digital converter box to receive the WLS-DT signal (6th generation tuner).

He has a *homemade* (his dad was a TV engineer, he makes his own antennas!) channel 7-only antenna, in length with 14 active elements, pointed towards Sears Tower in the attic of his one-story home. There are similar sized houses to his west; he is on a street corner with houses across the street to his northeast and east.

From the antenna, He uses 30' of dual-shielded RG-6 cable which then goes into a ChannelMaster 7777 preamp.

With a temperature of 34 degrees, and a south-southwest winds of 15-25 MPH at the surface, and with a little drizzle, sleet and snow flurries falling, his reception is fluctuating around 50%, with no picture breakups. For reference, he uses a ChannelMaster 4228, also in the attic, on the UHF side of his CM 7777 preamp; he gets WLS-DT 52 at roughly 80% signal, solid.

On Saturday, November 8, from approximately 1:15 AM to 1:50 AM, he saw a rerun of the WLS 10 PM newscast. It was in standard definition on 7.1, as broadcast on physical channel 7. At 1:40 AM, he saw the re-rerun of the 10 PM newscast, or at least the start of it, until 2 AM.

It's about time!!!! But I'm with goaliebob, what is going to happen during daylight hours?

Hopefully nothing and WLS stays strong.. Im Hopeing and preying

It's about time!!!! But I'm with goaliebob, what is going to happen during daylight hours?

Bob and Tom (hey, that sounds like a radio show! ;) :D )

If you can get it this good in bad weather like this, you should be able to match the performance during the day.
BTW, this speaks VOLUMES about using channels 2-6 for a digital signal. Channel 7, at 4.8 kw, is just a hair above the 4.4 kw power level WBBM uses on 3. And most of us so far are doing reasonably well with RF 7. I did NOT expect to lock RF 7 tonight out here.

But I do wonder...anyone using rabbit ears? Anyone?

P.S. Got too excited...WBBM-DT will be at 8 kw on channel 12...nearly TWICE the power of WLS, not 3 times; I corrected that above. Still, they should be a blowtorch, and since they'll get less interference than channel 7, they could be the strongest signal on the dial with those with decent antennas.

But I do wonder...anyone using rabbit ears? Anyone?

Just hooked up the old rabbit ears to the Samsung in the bedroom and locked 7 DT with very little effort.

Also locked in the death stare from the starboard side of the bed, so the testing is complete for this evening from this location. That is all. Signing off.

But I do wonder...anyone using rabbit ears? Anyone?I will be, but (a) it will happen only after I leave the computer for the night, because all the rabbit ears are upstairs and after testing I'm staying upstairs to sleep, so I'll report in the morning, (b) I'm just under nine miles from Sears Tower, so my results may be unhelpful to residents of De Kalb, and (c) I've no idea of the makes or models of any of the the three sets of rabbit ears; they are no-names that came with the televisions.

I will be, but (a) it will happen only after I leave the computer for the night, because all the rabbit ears are upstairs and after testing I'm staying upstairs to sleep, so I'll report in the morning, (b) I'm just under nine miles from Sears Tower, so my results may be unhelpful to residents of De Kalb, and (c) I've no idea of the makes or models of any of the the three sets of rabbit ears; they are no-names that came with the televisions.

Dattier,

"Rabbit ears" is sufficient. And the engineers need to know if "rabbit ears" will work under 9 miles away; you are actually a GREAT data point for WLS and I know they'd want your report.

WLS-DT on ch 7 looks great in Grayslake (Hwy 120 and Allegheny):

- Very solid signal with no breakups.
- 85-90% signal Strength on ch 7 vs. 70-75% tonight on ch 52
- Looks exactly the same as ch 52

Equipment

- Tuner: LG LST-3410a DVR (3rd gen tuner)
- VHF Antenna: Radio Shack VU-120 in attic (using VHF section Only)
- UHF Antenna: CM 4228 Antenna in attic
- Preamp: CM 7777

I should also mention that WBBM-DT is locking solid tonight (strength 45%) which is unusual here. I have hardly seen WBBM all summer. Analog 7 looked good too earlier tonight. I guess it's a good night for signal reception. Even so, this is really encouraging that a measly 4.75 kw is locking in this strong out here.

Just hooked up the old rabbit ears to the Samsung in the bedroom and locked 7 DT with very little effort.


Wow. That's VERY interesting!


Also locked in the death stare from the starboard side of the bed, so the testing is complete for this evening from this location. That is all. Signing off.

:D Good night! That was a very valuable report!

2:53 am. Just lost ch 7 signal completely. Looks like the test is over. Analog 7 is back up. Good night.

In Chicago southwest side few blocks from city limits. On 7 DTV Im getting 90 to 95% on my DTT-900. Had to do an EZ add to keep them in there. Channel 52 only gives me about 80% or so. This is on a outside modified RS VU 110 XR that I put the corner reflectors from a VU 160 XR on. Up about 32 feet or so.

7 VHF is the winner here :)

You guys get a LOT of Obama coverage, I bet. :)

You guys get a LOT of Obama coverage, I bet. :)

Don't watch the news much. He's from Hyde Park so ya there going to push him here in Chicago.

DTV 7 IN CHEBANSE 62 MILES SOUTH

Here are a few comments on Sebenste's post from above.

1. Chebanse IL along I-57 62 miles south

2. LG 42PB4D HDTV with DVR Built in 2007 model

3. Winegard HD 8200 24 FT Tower

4. Winegard AP-8275 amp

5. Reception dtv 52 was approx 65% locked as usual and dtv 7 was 50% locked (hoping for more)

6. I was up to watch for approx 10 minutes from 1:30-1:40 but DVR'd for 2 hours and never lost reception.

7. DTV does seem rigid as posted above although the programming last evening made it difficult to tell. I would be nice to see an HDTV rerun to see what the new signal will do.
I am also in the same place a Goliebob with signal I hope for a return to current analog 7power to get us through those stormy or rainy nights. I would be a shame to lose what has been a lockable station about 99% of the time.

Thanks for reading

Digital 7 report:

Location: Plano, Illinois about 55 miles west/southwest
Equipment: Sony Bravia built in tuner. Had to do a complete rescan.
Antenna: Winegard 7084? (second biggest one they make) on 40 foot tower
Results: Signal strength on rf 7 varied between 71-87 as opposed to solid 90 on rf 52
SNR varied between 27.56 - 29.66

I only watched for about 15 minutes since it was so late. I didn't see any signal breakup. It will be interesting to see how well it works in the daytime and in times of heavy electrical noise impulses and when lightning is in the area. I suspect we will see breakups then.

Digital 7 report:

Location: Plano, Illinois about 55 miles west/southwest
Equipment: Sony Bravia built in tuner. Had to do a complete rescan.
Antenna: Winegard 7084? (second biggest one they make) on 40 foot tower
Results: Signal strength on rf 7 varied between 71-87 as opposed to solid 90 on rf 52
SNR varied between 27.56 - 29.66

I only watched for about 15 minutes since it was so late. I didn't see any signal breakup. It will be interesting to see how well it works in the daytime and in times of heavy electrical noise impulses and when lightning is in the area. I suspect we will see breakups then.

That seems to be common here to the south south west, I wonder if there is a low on their antenna to the south that is causing us to drop in signal vs Dt 52. Where as the North and North west is getting a signal gain. It would be nice to see WLS's comments on this first successful test, and how they can improve things.

Dattier,

"Rabbit ears" is sufficient. And the engineers need to know if "rabbit ears" will work under 9 miles away; you are actually a GREAT data point for WLS and I know they'd want your report.

Thank you, Gilbert.  Unfortunately, nobody forewarned us that the test would stop and RF7 would switch back to analog at 2:50 AM CST, so I had managed to test the two TVs connected to our roof antenna, the TV and the CECB (Zinwell DAT-970A) connected to the RCA ANT806 stick, and only one of the three rabbit-ear setups; the rest will have to wait until tonight.

It was not easy to test; trying to add RF7 by tuning 7 would just get you the already known 7.1 on RF52; a complete rescan, depending on the tuner, would give you either two 7.1's, two 7.2's, and two 7.3's and you would never know for sure which of each pair you were watching, or those on 52 would clobber those on 7, since the scans go from lowest RF channel number to highest, and you wouldn't be able to tune those on RF7 at all.

In some cases I started and aborted a rescan in order to clear the translation table and then tuned 7 manually, so that I'd know for sure I was watching the channels of RF7.

I live just under nine miles NNW of Sears Tower in a two-story single-family dwelling on a southwest corner of a residential intersection.  Thus, east of us is a street and there's some LOS from a second-floor east-facing window to the antenna, but south of us is another two-story house (with a much better roof antenna than ours, going unused because they have satellite, and I'd almost want to connect the coax from our roof antenna to theirs instead), so we have no LOS out the second-floor windows.

WLS-DT on RF7, when I was sure it was RF7, came it just as well and as clearly as it ever does on RF52, and sometimes RF52 isn't that good.  That was the case for the roof antenna, and also for a pair of rabbit ears feeding a Zenith DTT901 in the northeast corner of the northeast bedroom upstairs (which thus had a view out an east window) even though they're spread out horizontally to get WBBM-DT on RF3.

The ANT806 is in the southwest bedroom, but against its north wall, positioned so that its angle toward the transmitters aims for a window in the south wall of the room (and then the next house south).  It is connected to a Zinwell ZAT-970A, whose composite output goes to a vintage-2003 VCR with an NTSC tuner whose RF output continues to a TV with an ATSC tuner.  The Zinwell indicated around 87% intensity and 97%-100% quality for both RF7 and RF52, but the picture from RF52 had interruptions and breakups worse than usual, while the picture from RF7 was steady with no problems.

I hope to test the other two pairs of rabbit ears tonight and post again.

BTW, this speaks VOLUMES about using channels 2-6 for a digital signal. Channel 7, at 4.8 kw, is just a hair above the 4.4 kw power level WBBM uses on 3. And most of us so far are doing reasonably well with RF 7. I did NOT expect to lock RF 7 tonight out here.

I have been concerned about the relatively low upper VHF powers for some stations, especially those under 10kW, such as WLS. Perhaps upper VHF will work better than I thought. I would be curious to see how 7 performs compared to 52 in downtown areas. I have not had good luck with indoor antennas and VHF, when many tall buildings are around (UHF seems to reflect more cleanly).

So, you have a 2-13 antenna and yet WLS/7 at 4.75kW came in fine when WBBM/3 (~4.4kW) would not? This seems to prove that Low-VHF stations need more power than their upper VHF counterparts, not less.

Would even 45kW be enough to make Low-VHF viable? We would probably be better off not having to worry about that band at all.

How viable are potential 0.3kW digital LP stations and translators? Not viable at all, I suspect.

Don't watch the news much. He's from Hyde Park so ya there going to push him here in Chicago.I thought he was from Hawaii? ;)

Is there another test tonight? I have rabbit ears and am about 9 miles west in the PR of Oak Park :D

I have been concerned about the relatively low upper VHF powers for some stations, especially those under 10kW, such as WLS. Perhaps upper VHF will work better than I thought. I would be curious to see how 7 performs compared to 52 in downtown areas. I have not had good luck with indoor antennas and VHF, when many tall buildings are around (UHF seems to reflect more cleanly).

So, you have a 2-13 antenna and yet WLS/7 at 4.75kW came in fine when WBBM/3 (~4.4kW) would not? This seems to prove that Low-VHF stations need more power than their upper VHF counterparts, not less.

Would even 45kW be enough to make Low-VHF viable? We would probably be better off not having to worry about that band at all.

How viable are potential 0.3kW digital LP stations and translators? Not viable at all, I suspect.

Hey Falcon,

You have to remember that WLS-DT is about 1600' up on Sears, so that makes a difference. WBBM is at 1300', and that 300' lower altitude makes all the difference in the world, along with being on VHF-LO, of course.

I've already argued---many a time, as have many engineers ad nauseum---that VHF-LO has got to go for MOST areas. There's too much man-made interference in Chicago, New York, L.A., and other areas like that...and even then, WBBM had to argue competitive disadvantage to get 4.4 kw. They should only have 3.7 kw. Of course, in all reality, it doesn't help them.
45 kw would still get overwhelmed by thunderstorms here, or anywhere, unless they were very close to the tower. But at that point, just go 30 kw on channel 7 and let that signal get to the moon. :D Anyway, I get an unlockable signal from WBBM-3, but had an easily lockable signal on 7 with just a hair more power.

A small company here does ethnic/Korean programming and will be having its digital signal on channel 4. Right now, there's nowhere else for them to go. Somebody snagged channel 44 post-transition, and at 15 kw from Sears, that'll be a blowtorch as far as LP's go. I expect them to get across half the city, and that's about it. They should seriously think about digital flash-cutting on 41, or get a better post-transition channel. 4 gets a bit less interference than 3, but not by terribly much.

I will say this: I do expect picture breakups from rf 7 out here when we get "sparklies" now seen on the analog channels. Channel 7 gets the worst of it, channel 12 less so, where WBBM rf 3 is going.

As an aside, I'm 100 miles from Milwaukee. They have a PBS digital channel 8 with 30 kw of power, and using a VU-120 antenna in my 1-story attic, I could almost lock them constantly, and even with weak tropo, I got them.

Is there another test tonight? I have rabbit ears and am about 9 miles west in the PR of Oak Park :D

Yep, every night through the 13th, same time, 1 AM until 4:45 AM, or until they shut it off.

A small company here does ethnic/Korean programming and will be having its digital signal on channel 4. Right now, there's nowhere else for them to go. ... They should seriously think about digital flash-cutting on 41, or get a better post-transition channel.I thought it was the other way around: that WOCK (the same company's Spanish station, which carried Azteca America but now carries CV, on VHF13) is getting 4 for digital and WOCH (on 41) is getting 49 for digital.

At the other end, WPWR-DT on UHF51, as high a channel number as a full-power station can keep, with 1 MW of power, and one main channel at 720p with no subchannels, has been coming in very poorly the last few days, breaking up all the time.  Its high frequency and its strong power don't seem to make much difference.

Really surprised to have seen no mention of this yet.

Thursday and Friday (haven't checked those stations today) 7.1 and 26.1 were both running spots announcing digital TV tests at 6:53 AM and 5:23 PM on Wednesday, November 12.  The analog signal will show a "your TV has failed" card, while the digital station will continue regular programming uninterrupted with a crawl near the top saying something about the test.  A sample of each was shown, but I didn't get a recording of the spot, so I can't slo-mo it to say exactly what the text of the crawl reads.

The spot on 26.1 said that even if you are watching the digital signal, you should check the other televisions in your house while the test is running, but there was nothing about how long the test lasts.  Maybe seven minutes until 7:00 AM or 5:30 PM?

There was also nothing indicating whether the crawl announcing success would run on their subchannels.

is there any word yet If/when the programming info will be available for thistv channel on dish network.I have my ota ant. line running though my dish box and all it says for the info is digital services doesn't give a programming line up yet or am i just out of luck
thanks
drew

WOCH (on 41) is getting 49 for digital.
This is true.

is there any word yet If/when the programming info will be available for thistv channel on dish network.I have my ota ant. line running though my dish box and all it says for the info is digital services doesn't give a programming line up yet
thanks
drewIf you're not paying for the local channels from Dish, you will not get any information for them.

I wouldn't hold my breath for ThisTV - they haven't even added MeToo yet.

So I believe it's WOCK that Rammitinski's friends will lose.

Then again, with WOCH-LD promising to broadcast at 130 W, not many people would receive it even on channel 49.

i do pay for the local package, but also have my ota ant. hooked in and able to receive some locals i don't though dish,metv,metoo, thistv , plus all the sub channels for the major networks, it gives the programming for all the other stations and subs so far that i don't get from them, just not yet for thistv

So I believe it's WOCK that Rammitinski's friends will lose.No, it was WOCH.

location : ~20 Miles west of Sears on Madison Street

tuner : onair hdtvGT (5th generation, LG TDVS-H062P) web site (http://www.autumnwave.com/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=102&Itemid=244)

antenna 1 : indoor 12" telescoping whip > ~6 dB s/n no lock (rf 19 lock at 27 dB, rf 52 lock at 22 dB)

antenna 2 : CM 3016 roof-top ~20' above ground w/o preamp, w/ trees and homes on all sides > 26 - 28 dB lock.

video / audio > good
epg > working
cc1 and cc2 > working

1. State your location as specific as possible without giving away an address (examples: near downtown Wheaton, northwest side of DeKalb, 75th and whatever street in Chicago)

Skokie & Oakton, Skokie

2. State your receiver (examples: Samsung HDTV model ZA7865-32, Zenith DTT-901 converter box)

Receiver #1: Insignia converter box (I forget the number) (manual tune)
Receiver #2: Hauppauge HVR-1800 ATSC tuner card (automatic channel scan)
Receiver #3: Hauppauge HVR-1250 ATSC tuner card (automatic channel scan)

3. State your antenna (examples: Radio Shack VU-190, a VHF-only 32 element antenna, Winegard HD 7084P, rabbit ears), and where it is located (on top of my TV in the basement, or first floor, or attic, or rooftop).

Antennas Direct DB2, roof mounted

4. State if you are using a preamp, if so, name the brand/model if you can.

Nope

5. State your reception quality.

From 2:45 AM - 3:15 AM on 10/9/2008, complete and total signal failure on all receivers.

Cannot find anything on that frequency on any tuner. Here's some of my channel scan off the HVR-1800 card:


DTV identifier : frequency:encoding : ? : ? : (sub-channel maybe?)

CBS2 Ch·:63028615:8VSB:49:51:1
WGN-DT:503028615:8VSB:49:52:3
LATV:503028615:8VSB:65:68:4
WYCC SD:515028615:8VSB:65:68:2
MegaHer:515028615:8VSB:81:84:3
WYCC HD·:515028615:8VSB:49:52:1
(...snipped for brevity...)
WLS-HD:701028615:8VSB:49:52:1 <-- the old WLS-HD
WLS-SD1:701028615:8VSB:65:68:2
WLS-SD2:701028615:8VSB:81:84:3


Did WLS cancel their test tonight? Because normally even if I'm having a problem locking on to WBBM, I can at least tell that there's a channel there. With ABC7 on channel 7, there's el zilcho, nada, nothing. Not even a carrier wayyyyyy down in the noise floor! (And tonight I can lock on to WBBM just fine.)


Note: you likely will have to do a rescan to see them. Or, on some tuners, tell it to tune to RF channel 7 and it should come up.

I wish! Both methods fail completely here.

From 2:45 AM - 3:15 AM on 10/9/2008, complete and total signal failure on all receivers.

Cannot find anything on that frequency on any tuner.

Did WLS cancel their test tonight?

Sunday morning's test ran only from 1:05 AM to 2:05 AM.  By the time you tried, it was over and VHF7 was carrying the analog signal again.

Of course, we never know these things until they happen.  Saturday morning's test apparently started on time but ended around 2:50.

Location: McHenry, Illinois. 46 miles from the Sears Tower

Equipment: Tivo HD. Had to do a complete rescan.

Antennas tested:
Winegard YA 1713 attic mounted with a CM 7777 preamplifier.
DIY Ch-3 Yagi attic mounted with a CM 7777 preamplifier.

Results:
Winegard - Signal strength on 7-1 (177 MHz) varied between 62-77. SNR 20-24 dB
Ch3 Yagi - Signal strength on 7-1 (177 MHz) varied between 72-85. SNR 23-27 dB

I only watched for about 30 minutes, but I saw no breakups.

Initial testing was done with a new Winegard ya1713. I then
switched back to my large DIY Ch-3 yagi and retested. It
surprised me that the results were better with the Ch 3 yagi.

I had hoped to simply switch from the Yagi to the ya1713 in Feb,
but it looks like I need a little more gain on Ch-7. I"ll be adding a
corner reflector to the ya1713 and retesting later this week.

WarrenN - just curious - how's your reception of Milwaukee and Rockford up there?

Sunday morning I tried the two rabbit-ear antennas that I hadn't gotten to when Saturday morning's tested ended unexpectedly (to us viewers) at 2:50 AM.

Both came in fine.  Again, I'm just under nine miles north-northwest of Sears Tower, at the north end of our block on the west side of a north-south street, in a two-story house, so any signal has to go through or around the next house south of us (the second house south of us is a one-story ranch and wouldn't be in the way of an indoor antenna on our second floor).

Of the two locations that I could not try until Sunday morning, one is along the north wall of the southwest bedroom (same wall as the RCA ANT806 I mentioned earlier), feeding a Digital Stream DTX9950.  The DTX9950's channel edit function displays the physical RF stations of all channels, so by deselecting the 52's or the 7's in that function, I knew that the channel-up and channel-down keys were showing the ones still selected.  I could tell no difference, though I believe the signal meter reported higher numbers for RF7 (low 70s) than for RF52 (high 60s) some of the time.

The last set of rabbit ears is along the west wall of the northwest bedroom, so in addition to the walls that  are in the way for the antenna in the preceding paragraph, there is also the wall between the two bedrooms.  It feeds a Venturer STB7766G1.  52 may have been a little less reliable than 7 during the test.

All told, I did not see a significant difference on any of the ATSC tuners I have.

It should be noted that the VHF elements of these antennas, like those of the one I was able to try during Saturday's test, are folded down close to the horizontal to pick up WBBM-DT on VHF3, and I left them that way, not folding fold them up nor collapsing them to shorter lengths for better VHF-high reception.  For one thing, I never manage to think of it at the time but only when I'm posting these results, and for another, it's such a bear to get them back into the best position for WBBM-DT afterward.  Come WBBM-DT's move to VHF12 and WLS-DT's to VHF7, I'll reposition them for VHF-high (at the sacrifice of the CV on WOCK-LD and Azteca America on WLFM-LD at VHF4 and VHF6 -- a small sacrifice, as I don't speak Spanish and don't watch those channels now except to see whether I can receive them) and will likely get better reception of WLS-DT on VHF7 than I have during these tests.

I thought it was the other way around: that WOCK (the same company's Spanish station, which carried Azteca America but now carries CV, on VHF13) is getting 4 for digital and WOCH (on 41) is getting 49 for digital.



Hi Dattier,

You are right, but I said they program (primarily) the Korean stuff; few know about Azteca America. WOCH seems to be their main outlet.

I said they program (primarily) the Korean stuff; few know about Azteca America. WOCH seems to be their main outlet.Yes, it does.  And WOCK doesn't even carry Azteca America any more: WCHU and WLFM now have Azteca America instead of MTV Tr3s, while WOCK has some other Spanish-language feed called "CV" or "Cablevision Network."  (Edit: I had read it wrong; it's CaribeVision Network, as Trip in VA has posted below.)

Regarding the Bae family's stations, did I ever mention that the paper sign at their 5225 N. Kedzie office was replaced with a permanent one?

WarrenN - just curious - how's your reception of Milwaukee and Rockford up there?
I was originally trying to get CBS from Milwaukee, but had very little luck. That's when I decided to build my Ch3 yagi for Chicago. I have Aluminum siding between the antenna and Rockford, so I haven't even tried that direction. I'm sure I'd have better luck if the antenna was on the roof, but I already get everything I need from Chicago with the attic install.

WOCK has some other Spanish-language feed called "CV" or "Cablevision Network."

Are you sure that's not "CaribeVision"?

- Trip

Sunday morning's test ran only from 1:05 AM to 2:05 AM.* By the time you tried, it was over and VHF7 was carrying the analog signal again.

Of course, we never know these things until they happen.* Saturday morning's test apparently started on time but ended around 2:50.

Wel that's a fine how-do-you-do. Have to wonder why they bother announcing a test from X to Y time if they're going to go from X until whenever-the-hell-they-feel-like. (BOO WLS!)

Are you sure that's not "CaribeVision"?Well, Trip, it's rather hard to be sure of something that's false, and "that's not ‘CaribeVision’" would be false indeed.

I had a chance to reread it on the screen around 5:30 PM CST today, saw it was CaribeVision Network, made a mental note to correct my post when I next got to AVSForum, and came here just now to find that you'd corrected it just ten minutes after I'd learned it myself.

You couldn't possibly have known that I was going to make the correction, so thank you for taking care of it for me.

No wonder Optimum Online aren't suing the pants off them for using the name "Cablevision."  It was CaribeVision Network all along.  The lettering on their logo is very small, and WOCK-CA comes in only fuzzily.

Wikipedia's page for CaribeVision says that it has stations in New York, San Juan, and Miami, all O&O's, so I wonder if WOCK belongs to Barba now and no longer to the Baes rather than carrying CV under an affiliation arrangement.  I can't tell from their own site at caribevision.com, since [1] it's all in Spanish and [2] it takes forever to load so that it can play music while you view it.

Glad to help.

I had been thinking about your post as I'd never heard of that network, and then I remembered that WPXO-LP in New Jersey aired a network called "CaribeVision" and figured maybe that had been what you saw.

- Trip

Wel that's a fine how-do-you-do. Have to wonder why they bother announcing a test from X to Y time if they're going to go from X until whenever-the-hell-they-feel-like. (BOO WLS!)

First of all, they didn't announce it...I did, and it's an engineering test, not really for us. I thought it would be cool if we could help WLS, and at the same time, make sure our TV's would work. The times were stated but not guaranteed. They may not even be reading this thread until tomorrow. I hope Kal Hassan jumps in after he reads the posts and comments, if he is able to.

BTW, I have not heard anything from WBBM, or WGBO/WXFT doing any pre-shutdown late-night testing, since they will also be moving. If I hear anything, I'll let you all know!

Night #3 of the WLS-DT test. Same tuner, location, etc as in my first post:

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showpost.php?p=15028825&postcount=3162

Weather is cloudy, 29 degrees, but clearing about to get here with west winds at 10 MPH, gusting to 17. Time is 1:20 AM on 11/10/2008, Monday morning, and they are showing a rerun of "Lost".

Now we're getting interesting, folks. At 1:05 AM, I watched WLS just turn the analog transmitter off. After 10 seconds, a dull pop and "darker" snow indicated that their DTV signal was on. BUT...

Tonight, I had "sparklies" on analog 7 right to the moment they yanked the analog signal. LOTS of "sparklies". This is what I see quite often out here; this is atmospheric and man-made noise mixed in. Now, folks, is where the rubber meets the road. Will I still get WLS-DT?

I flipped on my DTT-900. The signal quality meter is wavering between 60% and 80%, but by jiminy and by golly, I've got a hard lock on this sucker. Wow. I wish I could show a picture of the sparkled analog 7; I've seen worse for sure, but this is representative of a common occurrence out here. And yet, not one frame or audio drop. None. I'm astonished, quite frankly.

This is what I consider to be THE test for me to get WLS-DT 7, and it passes. I can breathe easy. I am going to bed knowing that I will likely get WLS-DT rf 7 well, at least under what I consider to be moderately bad interference conditions. Even better: at nearly double the power and with fewer "sparklies", I'm more than guessing that WBBM-DT will be nearly pegging my signal quality meter.

ONE thing I noticed this time: they were not sending out guide data (they were on 52), but PSIP appears to be fine.

First of all, they didn't announce it...I did, and it's an engineering test, not really for us. I thought it would be cool if we could help WLS, and at the same time, make sure our TV's would work. The times were stated but not guaranteed. They may not even be reading this thread until tomorrow. I hope Kal Hassan jumps in after he reads the posts and comments, if he is able to.

Ahhhhhh, gotcha. I misunderstood; I thought this was an organized / quasi-official test.

(At of 2:05 AM today, still complete and total signal failure across all tuners, for the second night in a row. But I have a feeling it's because the test already terminated, again.)


As for WBBM, I thought they were buying WTTW's analog transmitter & re-fitting it? That might make a test a little difficult from a logistics point of view.

is there any word yet If/when the programming info will be available for thistv channel on dish network.I have my ota ant. line running though my dish box and all it says for the info is digital services doesn't give a programming line up yet or am i just out of luck
thanks
drew

No word that I'm aware of.

Ahhhhhh, gotcha. I misunderstood; I thought this was an organized / quasi-official test.

(At of 2:05 AM today, still complete and total signal failure across all tuners, for the second night in a row. But I have a feeling it's because the test already terminated, again.)



I have a feeling its because everything is working well, which is a good sign, IMO. That means in a flash, literally in 10 seconds...they can go from channel 52 to channel 7.


As for WBBM, I thought they were buying WTTW's analog transmitter & re-fitting it? That might make a test a little difficult from a logistics point of view.

Yes, but WTTW has a primary and a backup transmitter and antenna. WTTW will operate off the backup when WBBM takes over the primary to convert it...which they probably have already, or certainly will very soon.

They did note that they will test the transmitter and antenna before 2/17/09. Also note, with any new transmitter, in the first week of operation...it's subject to failure. I'm also guessing that is why WLS is doing this over a week period.

Tonight, I had "sparklies" on analog 7 right to the moment they yanked the analog signal. LOTS of "sparklies". This is what I see quite often out here; this is atmospheric and man-made noise mixed in. Now, folks, is where the rubber meets the road. Will I still get WLS-DT?

I flipped on my DTT-900. The signal quality meter is wavering between 60% and 80%, but by jiminy and by golly, I've got a hard lock on this sucker. Wow. I wish I could show a picture of the sparkled analog 7; I've seen worse for sure, but this is representative of a common occurrence out here. And yet, not one frame or audio drop. None. I'm astonished, quite frankly.

Thank you for the updated report.

How do analog 2 & 5 look, compared to 7? I would be interested in looking at screen caps of both, if possible. I have seen some significant sparklies on KABC 7 and other analog upper VHF channels, at times. 2, 4 & 5 in LA, by contrast, are much more significantly impaired and always have what looks like a "mesh" of noise in addition to frequent bursts of noise.

At of 2:05 AM today, still complete and total signal failure across all tuners, for the second night in a row. But I have a feeling it's because the test already terminated, again.You must have missed it by seconds, because by my clock Monday morning's test ran from 1:05 AM to 2:10 AM.  Do you just get home from work at that hour or can you try a little earlier?

Anyhow, I remembered about the rod angle on the rabbit-ear antennas.  One of mine is too near the ceiling to tilt the rods higher (and also it's hard to reach); on the other two, it seemed to make no difference.  Then, of course, I had the fun fun fun of playing with the two antennas to get WBBM-DT again, which I should probably recheck now that it's daytime.

I believe it was mentioned on here a while back, but I just bought a new Samsung LCD (Series 5) model, and during certain shows the video keeps jerking but the audio is OK. It happened last night on Frasier, King of Queens, and George Lopez. However, an episode of Martin was fine. This morning the court shows are OK, but some of the commercials have the same stutter. Also, Analog 26 video is fine. So, is the problem with the Samsung tuner or WCIU?

I had been thinking about your post as I'd never heard of that network, and then I remembered that WPXO-LP in New Jersey aired a network called "CaribeVision" and figured maybe that had been what you saw.Oh!  I figured you had some resource to know definitely that WOCK-CA is carrying CaribeVision and that you used the "are you sure?" phrasing just as a way of being polite.

Oh!* I figured you had some resource to know definitely that WOCK-CA is carrying CaribeVision and that you used the "are you sure?" phrasing just as a way of being polite.

Nah, there are so many of these little networks popping up these days that I didn't know if there actually was a network by the name you gave! :D

- Trip

Thank you for the updated report.

How do analog 2 & 5 look, compared to 7? I would be interested in looking at screen caps of both, if possible. I have seen some significant sparklies on KABC 7 and other analog upper VHF channels, at times. 2, 4 & 5 in LA, by contrast, are much more significantly impaired and always have what looks like a "mesh" of noise in addition to frequent bursts of noise.

2 and 5 for me are just above noise level, even with a big VHF-only (2-13) antenna up there, low loss cable, signal preamp, etc. Being indoors does me no favors with those two channels.

I believe it was mentioned on here a while back, but I just bought a new Samsung LCD (Series 5) model, and during certain shows the video keeps jerking but the audio is OK. It happened last night on Frasier, King of Queens, and George Lopez. However, an episode of Martin was fine. This morning the court shows are OK, but some of the commercials have the same stutter. Also, Analog 26 video is fine. So, is the problem with the Samsung tuner or WCIU?

Honestly probably both. We may be spitting out some data that your tuner doesnt like. We have that effect on random brands.

You must have missed it by seconds, because by my clock Monday morning's test ran from 1:05 AM to 2:10 AM.* Do you just get home from work at that hour or can you try a little earlier?

No, my... natural alarm clock (*cough* *cough*) tends to get me up around that time.

Maybe I'll try the old trick of drinking 34 glasses of water right before bed to help speed up the natural alarm. Watch, I'll wake up at 11:30 instead having to pee like a race horse. :D

The spot on 26.1 said that even if you are watching the digital signal, you should check the other televisions in your house while the test is running, but there was nothing about how long the test lasts.  Maybe seven minutes until 7:00 AM or 5:30 PM?A spot on 7.1 or 7.2 today referred to them as "five-minute tests."  Depending on how many TVs have to be checked by how few people over how much dashing distance, that may or may not be enough time.

We readers of this thread, though, need to check only one TV apiece out of curiosity, since we already know what our sets are receiving.

Kal Hassan, the Chief Engineer and VP of WLS-TV/DT, sent me some email which he graciously has allowed me to reprint here.



Gilbert,

Thank you for your heads up in the AVS forum regarding our DTV 7
testing. I meant to post it but just got too busy! We (are obtaining) field
strength measurements of the FCC allocated power level of 4.75Kw ERP for
Channel 7 DTV. We have two trucks going out in radials starting at 60
miles out and working our way in. The tests will conclude on Thursday
night-Friday AM (Nov.14) As expected the measurements using a decent
antenna at 30' (the FCC model) works fine, but we are at a distinct
disadvantage to the local UHF's when using an indoor antenna at suburban
locations. I am hoping to get scientific data to provide to the FCC to
bolster the case for more power for us and the VHF band.

The tests are from 1AM to 445AM. But since we want a baseline analog
reading at each of the radial locations, we are powering up the analog
7, shutting it down and powering up the DTV 7 transmitter. We are doing
radials points along the North, NW, W, SW , S , SE and Indiana. We do
about 4 points about 10 miles in each time starting at 60 miles out, and
the above process is repeated at each point. So you may not see us at
times!

I will post a thank you in the forum, but feel free to share this info
with the forum.

Thanks again.


And there you are. Thanks gang! I told ya that they're watching your reports!
:)

Thank you very much, Gilbert.

So if we were to stay up after RF7 reverts to NTSC around 2:15 or whenever, later in the morning it there would be another test and RF7 would carry the ATSC signal for a while again?

Thank you very much, Gilbert.

So if we were to stay up after RF7 reverts to NTSC around 2:15 or whenever, later in the morning it there would be another test and RF7 would carry the ATSC signal for a while again?

The way I read it, that's what he seems to say. But without verification, I don't know. If any of you REAL early birds are up at 4 AM, you can let us know! :D

BTW, it looks like almost ALL local stations will be participating in the analog "soft shutdown" test on Wednesday, November 12. I've been away on conference trips and have been busy, so I didn't have a chance to post that. Thanks for the post about it, dattier!

P.S. How many would like to be riding along in those trucks and geeking out (raises hand)? :D

No public site yet. What market are you in out there? I can tell you if you have a "This" affiliate or not.

Any word on when This TV might have a public website?

I've yet to see the network launch in my area (I keep remoting into my computer at home and checking the stations' streams for it) and I'm anxiously awaiting it. =)

- Trip

The way I read it, that's what he seems to say. But without verification, I don't know. If any of you REAL early birds are up at 4 AM, you can let us know! :D

BTW, it looks like almost ALL local stations will be participating in the analog "soft shutdown" test on Wednesday, November 12. I've been away on conference trips and have been busy, so I didn't have a chance to post that. Thanks for the post about it, dattier!

P.S. How many would like to be riding along in those trucks and geeking out (raises hand)? :D

Been there, done that. :D

1) Bryan, OH 181 Airmiles away
2) Sony 40XBR Television
3) Antennas Direct 91XG - Horizontal Stack, Funke 1922
4) CM 7777 Pre-amp @ 52' in the air.
5) No signal at ALL.

However, I view Ch.32 out of Chicago is 24/7 on Analog ONLY. Cannot capture Digital as they do not push their Digital Signal Eastward.

On a sidebar note, I get Milwaukee in Digital (late at night)

I have a couple of questions for you.

1) What is your transmission pattern? Omni?
2) Do you plan at operating at 4.75kW, or will you request a power upgrade?

1) Bryan, OH 181 Airmiles away
2) Sony 40XBR Television
3) Antennas Direct 91XG - Horizontal Stack, Funke 1922
4) CM 7777 Pre-amp @ 52' in the air.
5) No signal at ALL.

However, I view Ch.32 out of Chicago is 24/7 on Analog ONLY. Cannot capture Digital as they do not push their Digital Signal Eastward.

On a sidebar note, I get Milwaukee in Digital (late at night)

I have a couple of questions for you.

1) What is your transmission pattern? Omni?
2) Do you plan at operating at 4.75kW, or will you request a power upgrade?
Hey PCtools,

I am not speaking for WLS-TV/DT in any way; I don't work for them nor am I affiliated with them in any way, except that I know Kal from the boards here. However...

Based on the FCC pattern, their DTV 7 transmission is omnidirectional, but there is a 7 in Kalamazoo, MI that I think interferes with it heading into Michigan.

http://www.fcc.gov/fcc-bin/FMTV-service-area?x=DT1247249.html

As for the second question, I believe Kal answered it in the post. Read it again.

BTW, it looks like almost ALL local stations will be participating in the analog "soft shutdown" test on Wednesday, November 12.Really?  I've seen no mention on any channels other than 7.1, 26.1, and maybe 7.2.

Well, those of you who can, please try to get screengrabs of the failure card on the analog stations and of the crawl on the digital stations and share them here.

Of the WLS-DT rf 7 test. As a reminder, here's my equipment list and such:

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showpost.php?p=15028825&postcount=3162

Significant "sparklies" on analog right up until they turned it off at 1:05 AMish, but not as bad as last night. BUT, due to the approaching storm system in the south-central U.S., warm air is starting to come in aloft, and I am seeing mild tropo. Before the switchover, I actually had horizontal transparent, thin "hum bars" and a slight high-pitched heterodyne whining noise from an analog 7 somewhere, interfering slightly with the broadcast. OK, let's see what happens!

At 1:15 AM 11/11/2008, I have a 60%-65% signal quality on my meter. It occasionally pops up to 70%. No drops in audio or video; it's a hard lock.
They're showing reruns of the news, and tonight, guide data is there. Nothing unusual or different noted. I really want to know when WBBM will test on 12.
In any case, tomorrow night could be different...with warm air coming in aloft, there could be significant tropo ducting on VHF-HI channels tomorrow. If so, a duct from the east could bring in interference from Grand Rapids area channel 7, WOOD-DT. This could be quite interesting to see early Wednesday morning. Good night.

In Racine about 60 miles out.

CM4228 hanging from a 1st floor ceiling
CM7777 preamp
HDHR tuner

I had the HDHR tuned to 7 and I would get something registering in and out on that channel. When it would come in, the signal strength would get no higher than 63. It looked to be bouncing between 55 and 63 but would only register above 60. It never locked on enough to get a channel ID. I wish I had it on the roof for these tests.

I know this is a UHF only antenna but I haven't mounted anything on the roof over the last year and a half because of the impending shutdown. I want to put something up there in March or April when I will hopefully know which antenna I will have to have to pull in all Chicago locals.

WLS comes in the worst of the ones I can get on UHF at about 85%. My signal quality on it is much worse than the other channels.

I believe it was mentioned on here a while back, but I just bought a new Samsung LCD (Series 5) model, and during certain shows the video keeps jerking but the audio is OK. It happened last night on Frasier, King of Queens, and George Lopez. However, an episode of Martin was fine. This morning the court shows are OK, but some of the commercials have the same stutter. Also, Analog 26 video is fine. So, is the problem with the Samsung tuner or WCIU?

Recently, I've noticed a similar situation on WPWR-DT, channel 50.1. Check out M*A*S*H or Still Standing, especially when there is movement. Judge Alex is not affected. I have an older model tube set, Samsung TX-P2675WH 26" Widescreen HDTV. 26.1 and 50.1 are the only stations I notice this problem. None of the Milwaukee stations do this.

Hey PCtools,

I am not speaking for WLS-TV/DT in any way; I don't work for them nor am I affiliated with them in any way, except that I know Kal from the boards here. However...

Based on the FCC pattern, their DTV 7 transmission is omnidirectional, but there is a 7 in Kalamazoo, MI that I think interferes with it heading into Michigan.

http://www.fcc.gov/fcc-bin/FMTV-service-area?x=DT1247249.html

As for the second question, I believe Kal answered it in the post. Read it again.


Could this switchover be handled any worse? Why didn't the FCC mandate what WOOD go to channel 8 after the analog signs off? Were the channel assignments based on engineering or the LOTTO balls? I guess we could have 3 adjacent markets with the same channel... err... we will have that on 46.. DOUGH!

One thing settled: WLS-DT's tests this week do stop and restart during the same morning. VHF7 flipped from analog to digital at 3:05 AM and back to analog about 4:00 AM.  However, I'm only assuming that there had been the usual digital period from 1:05 AM to around 2:05; maybe there wasn't and they were first going digital at 3:05.

WBBM is also participating in the readiness tests tomorrow; I caught a spot for them on 2.1 this morning.  It specified that the tests were for five minutes each and even stated the end times as 6:58 AM and 5:28 PM.

Could this switchover be handled any worse? Why didn't the FCC mandate what WOOD go to channel 8 after the analog signs off? Were the channel assignments based on engineering or the LOTTO balls? I guess we could have 3 adjacent markets with the same channel... err... we will have that on 46.. DOUGH!

Swiat,

You gotta remember...the band is so packed with channels east of the Mississippi, it was a very hard squeeze just to keep everyone on the air, including the low-power stations. Engineers did work it out, in part, amongst themselves, and while it wasn't perfect, it wasn't bad. 3 more months, and then this is over. Hang in there....

Could this switchover be handled any worse? Why didn't the FCC mandate what WOOD go to channel 8 after the analog signs off? Were the channel assignments based on engineering or the LOTTO balls? I guess we could have 3 adjacent markets with the same channel... err... we will have that on 46.. DOUGH!

Existing digital transmitters were given priority over stations moving back to analog channels. The FCC was trying to encourage stations to stay on their digital channels if they could.

- Trip

Kal Hassan, the Chief Engineer and VP of WLS-TV/DT, sent me some email which he graciously has allowed me to reprint here.

Thank you for posting the reply here. What I found most interesting was the comment about VHF having problems competing with UHF on indoor antennas in suburban locations.

It appears that for viewers with a proper upper VHF antenna, reception will not be a significant problem. However, with roughly 75% of OTA viewers relying on indoor antennas, VHF stations could be at a disadvantage.

I have found that 1st floor VHF reception suffers, but on the 2nd floor, it is much better. As for UHF, I've had good luck with antennas on directly on the ground.

Hopefully, WLS and other 7-13 stations can increase their VHF ERP's further. The current projected averages (for PT ops) are as follows:

7 - 23.6
8 - 23.3
9 - 22.2
10 - 19.0
11 - 28.5
12 - 24.1
13 - 23.9

23.4 is the average across 7-13. This figure has increased by about 1.5kW over the past few months (it was projected at 21.9 as of early August).

1. State your location as specific as possible without giving away an address

Skokie & Oakton, Skokie

2. State your receiver

#1: Insignia NS-DXA1 (coupon converter box)
#2: Hauppauge HVR-1800 (ATSC PCIe tuner card)
#3: Hauppauge HVR-1250 (ATSC PCIe tuner card)

3. State your antenna

Antennas Direct DB2, which is technically a UHF-only antenna. Mounted about fourteen feet up on the side of the house (I'm bad on ladders). No preamps or other stuff, just quad shielded rg-6 running everywhere. Has semi-LOS to sears; across the street and down the block is a tall tree that when the wind gets over 30 mph can cause picture breakups.

Analog seven looks so-so; there's a lot of noise around the edges.

5. State your reception quality.

Receiver #1... Unfortunately only have a signal meter, but WLS on 7 was consistently 2 "notches" better on the 'bad - good' scale than WLS on 52. I was able to flip back and forth between the two and compare, and wls on 7 was consistently 'two notches better'.

Receiver #2... Had to hand tune this one because mythTV kept clobbering the first WLS when it saw the second WLS. femon reported a snr of 0127-012c (hex), which is damn good. From experience, programs are useable until the snr drops into 0080-ish territory, so there's a loooong way to go until I get breakups. NO uncorrectable errors ("unc") and no correctable ("ber" -- basic error rate) errors were logged in the signal, and signal lock was never broken. (i.e. perfection!)

Receiver #3... Same as #2.

The picture and sound were absolutely rock solid on all tuners.

6. State the time(s) and dates you were watching

11/11/2008, 01:10AM until they shut off the digital signal again. (repeat of the news)

7. Note anything else you think might be important. Is PSIP messed up?

Sound was perfect, video perfect, CC was doing fine, guide data present and correct.

Swiat,

You gotta remember...the band is so packed with channels east of the Mississippi, it was a very hard squeeze just to keep everyone on the air, including the low-power stations. Engineers did work it out, in part, amongst themselves, and while it wasn't perfect, it wasn't bad. 3 more months, and then this is over. Hang in there....

Well, how likely will there be a realignment by a few stations months after the switch? I'm just concerned about co-channel issues we will be having.

Well, how likely will there be a realignment by a few stations months after the switch? I'm just concerned about co-channel issues we will be having.

I think there will be a few stations here and there that change channels but only in cases of serious reception problems. It can be quite expensive to change channels, depending on how far they're moving and how reusable the existing equipment is.

- Trip

Will distributed transmission system broadcasting (DTS) save America from the kind of DTV glitches Wilmington, NC experienced in September? Probably not right away.
http://arstechnica.com/news.ars/post/20081111-fcc-oks-digital-workaround-for-dtv-signal-range-problems.html

Skokie & Oakton, Skokie

TheKorn,

Just had to give you props for an excellent report with the information you had. I know engineers love SNR, but to show the software output like that can be pure gold to engineers if they know what you have. I wish I had the tech capability that you have with your PC tuner!

Thanks to everyone on the Chicago, IL OTA thread! Your comments are appreciated and will hopefully result in us providing a better service to you. I emailed Gilbert some info about the tests that will go on until Nov 14th and he has shared that with you. Our two test trucks are averaging about 9 reading points per night between 1AM and 445AM. I will ask the transmitter site personnel to leave the DTV7 signal up while they traverse between the points. It may help our case if you provide comparitive signal levels between VHF DTV 7 and the other UHF DTV's in the market; especially in an indoor environment using a portable UHF/VHF antenna. Ground level is better than the 2nd floor. I think VHF 7 at 4.75Kw will perform well with an outside antenna (except at the fringes of the B contour) but will fall short using indoor antennas. One of the reasons I hustled and built this facility was to do these tests. WBBM has not started their DTV 12 buildout yet so you cannot compare us to them anytime soon.
Thanks again.
Kal Hassan
VP & Dir. Of Engineering
WLS-TV Chicago

Well, how likely will there be a realignment by a few stations months after the switch? I'm just concerned about co-channel issues we will be having.

I agree with Trip...few and far between. No problems with co-channels locally that I know; none have interference within 200 miles. Channel 19, where WGN is, could get interference from Peoria, Ft. Wayne, Madison and Grand Rapids, but all have to be directional away from Chicago to protect WGN.

I agree with Trip...few and far between. No problems with co-channels locally that I know; none have interference within 200 miles. Channel 19, where WGN is, could get interference from Peoria, Ft. Wayne, Madison and Grand Rapids, but all have to be directional away from Chicago to protect WGN.

WISE-DT in Fort Wayne has a petition pending to relocate from channel 19 to channel 18, so it'll become a non-issue.

Still, WGN-DT is certainly a candidate for a relocation. They really got the short end of the stick on this one, and I can't imagine they'll want to keep such a constrained allocation. That assumes they care about the OTA signal.

- Trip

WISE-DT in Fort Wayne has a petition pending to relocate from channel 19 to channel 18, so it'll become a non-issue.

Still, WGN-DT is certainly a candidate for a relocation. They really got the short end of the stick on this one, and I can't imagine they'll want to keep such a constrained allocation. That assumes they care about the OTA signal.

- Trip

At 600 kw on top of Sears with only a marginally directional signal away from Peoria to the southwest...they'll be fine. In fact, they'll have, if WISE-DT Fort Wayne changes channels, they'll have *less* interference than now, and even now, few people complain about their signal. It utterly pegs my signal meter out here, and it is my strongest station. Always has been.

WMTV and WXMI both have either apps or CPs to boost power.

Glad to hear the signal's good, though I'd still figure they could find a more open channel if they wanted it.

- Trip