Chicago, IL - OTA [Text View] - Page 14

AudioVisionary

11-12-08, 03:40 PM

Greetings Gilbert And All...

Long time reader, it's been a while since I posted.

A big thanks to all for your posting and valuable information...it certainly has to be of tremendous value to all the engineers who have been slaving over this change-over for the past decade.

A quick report here...or not much of one. I'm in the NW burbs and have three tuners....a Sony Bravia, a Hauppage HDTV card and a DIVCO HDTV on my little laptop. I'm using a double bow-tie UHF indoor antenna with a 20db amplifier. Nothing fancy, but it works. Except for WBBM, I get every other digital signal...including WWME at 80%. I get WLS-DT on Ch. 52 at a minimum of 90% on most days.

This morning I tried to pick up Channel 7's digitial signal at the 6:53 test. Again, no real VHF antenna but all the sets do get 7's analog signal cleanly. I wasn't able to get a reading on my sets, but then the test was over before I could really be sure the sets were scanning properly. I'm hoping WLS, in specific, continues the late night testing and that those times are posted here. I've been avoiding setting up an outdoor (all the sets in the house are cabled) and want to have a good hour or so to try several other antennas I have around here.

On another note, we installed a converter box (I know, I know...but all my mother-in-law wants) in Skokie...hooked up to a 10db preamplified indoor antenna...about 12 miles from Sears...but here's the rub. She lives in that little corridor of bad shadowing caused by Hancock signals bouncing off the Sears Tower. As a kid growing up nearby, we always had a line on the picture on every station that transmitted off the Hancock. Interestingly, the reception of Hancock DTV signals are 10% or more lower that those from Sears. WBBM-DT is hit or miss from her despite being in the "A Band"...I'm hoping that with the station moving to the Sears and to a better channel she should be OK come February.

Last thing...all the chatter about what will happen after the change-over is always of interest. Being a broadcast historian, it has some relevence to the early days...back in the 50's when the FCC released their initial freeze on TV channels, opened up the UHF band and re-aligned the dial in the Midwest. This was when WBKB was on Channel 4...WTMJ was on Channel 3. WBKB which was owned by the B & K movie chain merged with Paramount and ABC...who owned Channel 7 (then known as WENR). Channel 4 was sold to CBS who then moved their signal to Channel 2 (at that time operated as an experimental channel by Zenith...Phonevision anyone??)...the WBKB talent went to work for the new Channel 2 while the WBKB call-letters were moved to Channel 7. WTMJ moved to 4...alleviating the interference it was having with Channel 3 in Grand Rapids and opening up the channel for use in Madison. I suspect we'll have a bunch of jockeying once all the build-outs are complete.

Again...many thanks for all your postings and information...now back to the weeds for me...

Cheers...

Falcon_77

11-12-08, 04:04 PM

If I adjusted the rabbit ears just right, I got a 25% signal...well below lock levels, but in most spots, I got zero. Nada. All of the UHFs I checked, WMAQ, WLS, WFLD, etc...except for lower-power/directional WJYS...came in better than WLS-DT rf 7.

Thank you for the report. I have found that my rabbit ear/loop combo works best with minimal extension on the "ears," i.e. no extension. This would seem to be shorter than ideal, so I don't know why it works better. I found that fully extending the rabbit ears made reception worse, though moving them in a stop or two helped quite a bit.

This is what I found when testing the experimental KFMB 7 in San Diego:

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=15033707#post15033707

Fully extending the rabbit ears (most would probably do that), when no Low-VHF signals are needed, seems to hurt more than it helps (for both UHF and upper VHF since they don't seem to have internal diplexers).

sebenste

11-12-08, 05:34 PM

Greetings Gilbert And All...

Long time reader, it's been a while since I posted.

This morning I tried to pick up Channel 7's digitial signal at the 6:53 test. Again, no real VHF antenna but all the sets do get 7's analog signal cleanly. I wasn't able to get a reading on my sets, but then the test was over before I could really be sure the sets were scanning properly. I'm hoping WLS, in specific, continues the late night testing and that those times are posted here.

Hey AV,

Good to hear from you. The test continue for the next two nights between 1:05 AM and 4:45 AM; however, the best chance to see it is between 1:05 and about 2:15 AM.

dattier

11-12-08, 06:06 PM

This morning I tried to pick up Channel 7's digitial signal at the 6:53 test.That was a different test, of people's TV setups rather than of their signal. During the 6:53 AM test, VHF7 carried an analog signal. As Sebenste has said, the tests when VHF7 carries an ATSC signal are between 1:05 AM and 4:45 AM.

drewopo

11-12-08, 07:52 PM

does anybody know if/when wbbm is going to test there digital signal again like they did this morning, would have loved to check it out , but had to leave for work before they did it, was hoping they would do it again tonight during the 6 pm news but didn't
or did i miss understand them and it not a test of there signal on rf 12

dattier

11-12-08, 11:35 PM

Drew, there was no test of the ATSC signal on VHF12. It was the same test that all the other local full-power analog stations held, of whether the individual viewer's setup was receiving the analog feed or the digital feed.

sebenste

11-13-08, 12:54 AM

Drew, there was no test of the ATSC signal on VHF12.* It was the same test that all the other local full-power analog stations held, of whether the individual viewer's setup was receiving the analog feed or the digital feed.

Yep, and Kal saved me some time by not having me go ask WBBM when they plan to do theirs. If they haven't started the buildout on channel 12 yet, it isn't worth asking.

TheKorn

11-13-08, 03:08 AM

Just had to give you props for an excellent report with the information you had. I know engineers love SNR, but to show the software output like that can be pure gold to engineers if they know what you have. I wish I had the tech capability that you have with your PC tuner!

Thanks! I learned how to do that when I had to point my outdoor antenna. :)

(I had to cheat and look up how to show the output when doing completely manual tuning. That I don't have memorized! :D )

TheKorn

11-13-08, 03:22 AM

I will ask the transmitter site personnel to leave the DTV7 signal up while they traverse between the points.

Thanks SO much! :)

It may help our case if you provide comparitive signal levels between VHF DTV 7 and the other UHF DTV's in the market; especially in an indoor environment using a portable UHF/VHF antenna.

Sure, what the hell, I'm up tonight anyway. I don't have an indoor antenna, but can get you some really hard numbers on you vs. everyone else, so figured I'd give it a go anyway.

Setup is the same as last time (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=15049038#post15049038). Not bothering with screenshots this time; hard numbers speak enough for themselves.

Numbers taken using azap to manually tune channels, and femon to get signal and snr values once a second. All numbers are HEX numbers, even if they look like regular numbers.

method: tune, wait for lock, then record first five measurements, then move on.

ALL are ATSC measurements taken with my Hauppauge HVR-1800. (I don't have the NTSC input portion connected on that card.) Measurements taken 11/13/2008, from approximately 1:15AM to about 1:45 AM.

wls (177 MHz):

marginally better than before... two nights ago snr & signal were bouncing between 012c and 0127 much more often than tonight:

status 1f | signal 012c | snr 012c | ber 00000000 | unc 00000000 | FE_HAS_LOCK
status 1f | signal 012c | snr 012c | ber 00000000 | unc 00000000 | FE_HAS_LOCK
status 1f | signal 012c | snr 012c | ber 00000000 | unc 00000000 | FE_HAS_LOCK
status 1f | signal 012c | snr 0127 | ber 00000000 | unc 00000000 | FE_HAS_LOCK
status 1f | signal 012c | snr 012c | ber 00000000 | unc 00000000 | FE_HAS_LOCK

wls (701 MHz):

[confirms what I saw the other night on the TV -- I'm getting the VHF signal better than the UHF!]

status 1f | signal 0113 | snr 0113 | ber 00000000 | unc 00000000 | FE_HAS_LOCK
status 1f | signal 0118 | snr 0118 | ber 00000000 | unc 00000000 | FE_HAS_LOCK
status 1f | signal 0113 | snr 0113 | ber 00000000 | unc 00000000 | FE_HAS_LOCK
status 1f | signal 0118 | snr 0118 | ber 00000000 | unc 00000000 | FE_HAS_LOCK
status 1f | signal 0113 | snr 0113 | ber 00000000 | unc 00000000 | FE_HAS_LOCK

wgn:

status 1f | signal 012c | snr 012c | ber 00000000 | unc 00000000 | FE_HAS_LOCK
status 1f | signal 012c | snr 012c | ber 00000000 | unc 00000000 | FE_HAS_LOCK
status 1f | signal 012c | snr 012c | ber 00000000 | unc 00000000 | FE_HAS_LOCK
status 1f | signal 012c | snr 012c | ber 00000000 | unc 00000000 | FE_HAS_LOCK
status 1f | signal 012c | snr 012c | ber 00000000 | unc 00000000 | FE_HAS_LOCK

wycc:

status 1f | signal 0104 | snr 0104 | ber 00000000 | unc 00000000 | FE_HAS_LOCK
status 1f | signal 0104 | snr 0104 | ber 00000000 | unc 00000000 | FE_HAS_LOCK
status 1f | signal 0109 | snr 0109 | ber 00000000 | unc 00000000 | FE_HAS_LOCK
status 1f | signal 0109 | snr 0104 | ber 00000000 | unc 00000000 | FE_HAS_LOCK
status 1f | signal 0104 | snr 0104 | ber 00000000 | unc 00000000 | FE_HAS_LOCK

wciu:

status 1f | signal 0127 | snr 0127 | ber 00000000 | unc 00000000 | FE_HAS_LOCK
status 1f | signal 0127 | snr 0127 | ber 00000000 | unc 00000000 | FE_HAS_LOCK
status 1f | signal 0122 | snr 0122 | ber 00000000 | unc 00000000 | FE_HAS_LOCK
status 1f | signal 0127 | snr 0127 | ber 00000000 | unc 00000000 | FE_HAS_LOCK
status 1f | signal 0127 | snr 0127 | ber 00000000 | unc 00000000 | FE_HAS_LOCK

wmaq:

status 1f | signal 0127 | snr 0127 | ber 00000000 | unc 00000000 | FE_HAS_LOCK
status 1f | signal 0127 | snr 0127 | ber 00000000 | unc 00000000 | FE_HAS_LOCK
status 1f | signal 0127 | snr 0127 | ber 00000000 | unc 00000000 | FE_HAS_LOCK
status 1f | signal 0127 | snr 0127 | ber 00000000 | unc 00000000 | FE_HAS_LOCK
status 1f | signal 0127 | snr 0127 | ber 00000000 | unc 00000000 | FE_HAS_LOCK

wfld:

status 1f | signal 0127 | snr 0127 | ber 00000000 | unc 00000000 | FE_HAS_LOCK
status 1f | signal 0127 | snr 0127 | ber 00000000 | unc 00000000 | FE_HAS_LOCK
status 1f | signal 0127 | snr 0127 | ber 00000000 | unc 00000000 | FE_HAS_LOCK
status 1f | signal 0127 | snr 0127 | ber 00000000 | unc 00000000 | FE_HAS_LOCK
status 1f | signal 0127 | snr 0127 | ber 00000000 | unc 00000000 | FE_HAS_LOCK

wjys: (by far my most iffy station after the white whale, wbbm):

[note this station shows UNCorrectable errors happening. that means picture breakups were happening!]

status 1f | signal 009b | snr 009b | ber 00000017 | unc 00000017 | FE_HAS_LOCK
status 1f | signal 009b | snr 009b | ber 0000000f | unc 0000000f | FE_HAS_LOCK
status 1f | signal 009b | snr 009b | ber 00000001 | unc 00000001 | FE_HAS_LOCK
status 1f | signal 009b | snr 009b | ber 00000007 | unc 00000007 | FE_HAS_LOCK
status 1f | signal 009b | snr 009b | ber 00000015 | unc 00000015 | FE_HAS_LOCK

wwme-ld: (the low power UHF wunderkind!)

status 1f | signal 00e6 | snr 00e6 | ber 00000000 | unc 00000000 | FE_HAS_LOCK
status 1f | signal 00eb | snr 00eb | ber 00000000 | unc 00000000 | FE_HAS_LOCK
status 1f | signal 00e6 | snr 00e6 | ber 00000000 | unc 00000000 | FE_HAS_LOCK
status 1f | signal 00eb | snr 00eb | ber 00000000 | unc 00000000 | FE_HAS_LOCK
status 1f | signal 00eb | snr 00eb | ber 00000000 | unc 00000000 | FE_HAS_LOCK

ION (I think this is WCPX? 647 MHz):

status 1f | signal 0127 | snr 0127 | ber 00000000 | unc 00000000 | FE_HAS_LOCK
status 1f | signal 012c | snr 012c | ber 00000000 | unc 00000000 | FE_HAS_LOCK
status 1f | signal 0127 | snr 0127 | ber 00000000 | unc 00000000 | FE_HAS_LOCK
status 1f | signal 0127 | snr 0127 | ber 00000000 | unc 00000000 | FE_HAS_LOCK
status 1f | signal 0127 | snr 0127 | ber 00000000 | unc 00000000 | FE_HAS_LOCK

wsns:

status 1f | signal 0127 | snr 0127 | ber 00000000 | unc 00000000 | FE_HAS_LOCK
status 1f | signal 0127 | snr 0127 | ber 00000000 | unc 00000000 | FE_HAS_LOCK
status 1f | signal 0127 | snr 0127 | ber 00000000 | unc 00000000 | FE_HAS_LOCK
status 1f | signal 0127 | snr 0127 | ber 00000000 | unc 00000000 | FE_HAS_LOCK
status 1f | signal 0127 | snr 0127 | ber 00000000 | unc 00000000 | FE_HAS_LOCK

wttw:

status 1f | signal 012c | snr 012c | ber 00000000 | unc 00000000 | FE_HAS_LOCK
status 1f | signal 012c | snr 012c | ber 00000000 | unc 00000000 | FE_HAS_LOCK
status 1f | signal 012c | snr 012c | ber 00000000 | unc 00000000 | FE_HAS_LOCK
status 1f | signal 012c | snr 012c | ber 00000000 | unc 00000000 | FE_HAS_LOCK
status 1f | signal 012c | snr 012c | ber 00000000 | unc 00000000 | FE_HAS_LOCK

wpwr (the whipper!):

status 1f | signal 012c | snr 012c | ber 00000000 | unc 00000000 | FE_HAS_LOCK
status 1f | signal 012c | snr 012c | ber 00000000 | unc 00000000 | FE_HAS_LOCK
status 1f | signal 012c | snr 012c | ber 00000000 | unc 00000000 | FE_HAS_LOCK
status 1f | signal 012c | snr 012c | ber 00000000 | unc 00000000 | FE_HAS_LOCK
status 1f | signal 012c | snr 012c | ber 00000000 | unc 00000000 | FE_HAS_LOCK

univision (707 MHz):

status 1f | signal 00f5 | snr 00f5 | ber 00000000 | unc 00000000 | FE_HAS_LOCK
status 1f | signal 00f5 | snr 00f5 | ber 00000000 | unc 00000000 | FE_HAS_LOCK
status 1f | signal 00f0 | snr 00f0 | ber 00000000 | unc 00000000 | FE_HAS_LOCK
status 1f | signal 00f0 | snr 00f0 | ber 00000000 | unc 00000000 | FE_HAS_LOCK
status 1f | signal 00f5 | snr 00f5 | ber 00000000 | unc 00000000 | FE_HAS_LOCK

wxft:

status 1f | signal 0109 | snr 0109 | ber 00000000 | unc 00000000 | FE_HAS_LOCK
status 1f | signal 0109 | snr 0109 | ber 00000000 | unc 00000000 | FE_HAS_LOCK
status 1f | signal 010e | snr 0109 | ber 00000000 | unc 00000000 | FE_HAS_LOCK
status 1f | signal 0109 | snr 0109 | ber 00000000 | unc 00000000 | FE_HAS_LOCK
status 1f | signal 0109 | snr 0109 | ber 00000000 | unc 00000000 | FE_HAS_LOCK

and last but not least, the white whale, wbbm (63 MHz):

status 1f | signal 00af | snr 00af | ber 00000000 | unc 00000000 | FE_HAS_LOCK
status 1f | signal 00b4 | snr 00b4 | ber 00000000 | unc 00000000 | FE_HAS_LOCK
status 1f | signal 00b4 | snr 00b4 | ber 00000000 | unc 00000000 | FE_HAS_LOCK
status 1f | signal 00af | snr 00af | ber 00000000 | unc 00000000 | FE_HAS_LOCK
status 1f | signal 00af | snr 00af | ber 00000000 | unc 00000000 | FE_HAS_LOCK

Finally, if anyone knows the station engineer for WJYS, they should let him know that "Illinois" has three I's in it. Right now, WJYS 62.2 is sending out:

WJYS-DT, Tinley Park, Illinos

D'oh. :eek:

swiat

11-13-08, 11:42 AM

If 19 co-exists in Chicago and Grand Rapids, I see no reason why 7 would be a problem.

As for 46, WMEU is a Class A station which does not have nearly as much power as the other stations involved. There also may not be many (if any) open channels to relocate the station to. My understanding is that Class A stations cannot "bump" LPTV stations like full-service stations can, so they'd have to work around other channels in the area.

- Trip

Trip, I don't think it's that simple. First, VHF tropo occurs much more often than UHF tropo. Second, the Friis free space equation for path loss is dependent on frequency. Higher frequency signals attenuate more over distance. Third, refraction is less at higher frequencies. So, the lower the frequency, the more issues you will have, including noise. The one benefit is that VHF is less line of sight and will refract around buildings better. Also, my understanding is that VHF (for these reasons above) requires lower transmit power for a comparable signal to noise ratio at your receiver.

I wouldn't suggest a LPTV bumping a higher powered one, just maybe moving it to channel 24 would be smarter. UHF co-channels in CHI and GRR would be less prone to problems than VHF in the two markets or UHF in CHI and MKE.

Trip in VA

11-13-08, 11:46 AM

Trip, I don't think it's that simple. First, VHF tropo occurs much more often than UHF tropo. Second, the Friis free space equation for path loss is dependent on frequency. Higher frequencies attenuate quicker. Third, refraction is less at higher frequencies.

I wouldn't suggest a LPTV bumping a higher powered one, just maybe moving it to channel 24 would be smarter. UHF co-channels in CHI and GRR would be less prone to problems than VHF in the two markets or UHF in CHI and MKE.

That's very true, though to be quite honest I don't think that ABC really cares too much at a corporate level. If they did, they wouldn't be going back to channel 6 in Philadelphia. They are going back to their analog channels in every circumstance.

On top of that, outside of Grand Rapids, channel 7 is a lot more open than a lot of other channels. What I could see happening is WLS putting in a directional antenna in an attempt to boost power while limiting power going across the Lake.

- Trip

dattier

11-13-08, 01:43 PM

Of course the same things happened as at 6:53 AM, but as I wasn't rushing off to see what Comcast was doing during the test, and as I found several more stations coming in at a different TV in the house, I could spend more time and find more out.

In the afternoon test I was able to receive WYIN (analog only, though), to receive WJYS-DT, and to check all digital channels and subchannels (except WYIN-DT's); still couldn't get the translator on channel 40, but if the Class A's and LP's and the other translator station (channel 25, W52BR or whatever its call letters are) weren't participating it was a lock that this translator wouldn't be.

So, of the analog stations, all the full-power ones were showing the failure card -- no Bozo on WGN this time -- including WYIN, which I hadn't pulled in in the morning. The other analog stations did not and just carried their regular programming uninterrupted.

Success crawls were on the .1 virtual digital channels but not on any subchannels, with the following exceptions:

7.2, 11.2, 20.2 (of course, being the SD simulcast of 20.1), and 20.3 had them;
11.1 (theirs was on 11.2), 23.1 (being an LD), and 62.1 did not.

I couldn't pull in 56.1 or 56.2, so I can't say whether or where WYIN-DT had success crawls.

zippyfrog

11-13-08, 06:59 PM

pm3839

11-13-08, 08:25 PM

Question for the Chicago area - has anyone noticed a drop in signal quality over the last 4-5 days? I really started noticing it on Sunday, but today my signal quality is horrible. I am getting about 2-4 bars (out of 10 bars) for signal quality, and a lot of stations I am getting no signal at all. Nothing has changed with my antenna setup.

Currently, 0 bars on CBS (usually I have 8-10) and Analog CBS is hardly viewable, 2 bars on NBC (usually 9-10), 6 bars on ABC (normal for me), 3 bars on WGN (usually 9-10), 2 bars on WTTW (usually 8-10), and 4 bars on Fox (Usually always 10).

Any thoughts? Has the change in weather done something? I don't remember it being this bad last year.

no noticeable drop in signal for me....it almost has to be something that went bad on your end...like a bad connector, splitter, antenna problem, etc...

it would be very unusual for even one channel to drop that much....and u have several channels that dropped way down ....i cant imagine several channels having such major problems all at the same time...go thru every inch of your antenna and coax run and i bet u'll find a problem in there somewhere...good luck!

sebenste

11-13-08, 09:43 PM

Question for the Chicago area - has anyone noticed a drop in signal quality over the last 4-5 days? I really started noticing it on Sunday, but today my signal quality is horrible. I am getting about 2-4 bars (out of 10 bars) for signal quality, and a lot of stations I am getting no signal at all. Nothing has changed with my antenna setup.

Currently, 0 bars on CBS (usually I have 8-10) and Analog CBS is hardly viewable, 2 bars on NBC (usually 9-10), 6 bars on ABC (normal for me), 3 bars on WGN (usually 9-10), 2 bars on WTTW (usually 8-10), and 4 bars on Fox (Usually always 10).

Any thoughts? Has the change in weather done something? I don't remember it being this bad last year.

Hey Zippyfrog,

Not here...indoor antennas are solid as ever. If your antenna is indoors, I don't know what to tell you, other than do you see interference on the analogs, or just snow? If it's sjust snow, and the antenna is outside...with all of the windy and damp weather we had, sounds like water made in ingress into a connector somewhere...

moto19

11-13-08, 11:35 PM

CM-7000 dropped frames (stutter / judder, etc.) on 720p only.
I think this topic could have more general interest because I bet it's fairly commonplace with what I've been able to piece together of this mess, but unfortunately no solution yet or very likely. It seems to be the combination of certain receiver designs with certain broadcasts. I'm posting this both in the CM-7000 thread and the Chicago OTA thread. If a board moderator wants to move it to it's own thread, please do so.
Summarizing my original post:
#942 (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showpost.php?p=15028471&postcount=942)
I'm just comparing my first two DTV converter boxes, a CM-7000 and a Tivax STB-T8. The CM has a particularly annoying motion artifact on 2 of the 5 Chicago stations (WCIU-DT 26.1 and WPWR-DT 50.1) that transmit 1280x720p (60Hz frame rate). I usually but not always get what looks like very jerky motion artifacts as if I was only getting 1 out of 4 frames (i.e. 15 Hz frame rate). There are no other obvious artifacts and the picture is very sharp. The Tivax isn't quite as sharp, but hasn't got a hint of this problem. I get 33 stations at 100% on both units, being about 7 miles from the transmitters. I thought perhaps it might be an RF overload problem or multipath, so I intentionally mis-aimed my attic mounted antenna about +/- 30 degrees with no change.

jsganz has 2 CM-7000's that have the same problem on one channel:
#944 (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showpost.php?p=15029635&postcount=944) and #946 (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showpost.php?p=15035465&postcount=946)

Thanks to this post by Rammitinski, I found more clues on the Chicago OTA thread:
#949 (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showpost.php?p=15046559&postcount=949)
An engineer for WCIU-DT posts over in the local Chicago OTA thread regularly. It's an ongoing problem on 26.1 that's been happening for months. Go over there and complain to him. We've done it plenty already, but one more can't hurt.

I can't speak for WPWR-DT, because I don't ever watch it - but it's definitely the station with 26.1 - it's not your box, so don't worry.

I can't fully agree or disagree with that for three reasons:

1. I have one box (the Tivax) that never has this problem.

2. I spoke with Channel Master support a couple days ago and was told that they have seen some problems like this with certain stations and the CM-7000. In effect he said the CM-7000 meets NTIA design standards for CECB's, but that there's evidence it may not be as forgiving as some other models when the transmission has certain "unknown" non-ideal characteristics. He said it would be pointless to exchange the CM-7000 as he expects the replacement unit to give the same problem. As an engineer myself (not video!) I know that meeting a “design standard” doesn't preclude obscure but significant faults being designed into a system, particularly when the system is really two separately designed systems (encoder and decoder) that have to interact.

3. The following posts on the Chicago OTA thread
#2993 (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showpost.php?p=14882076&postcount=2993)
WPWR-DT, channel 50.1, seems to have developed a stuttering problem similar to that on WCIU-DT. It isn't as bad on WPWR-DT as it is on WCIU-DT. WCIU-DT is unwatchable when a "film" show is on.
It only appears on my Samsung HD set, (my other set, RCA w/ATSC non-HD tuner is not affected) when "film" shows have any movement such as when people walk across the screen, talk, etc, it stutters and jumps.
Is this a Samsung problem or what?

and the reply by hvs10trk who is the engineer at WCIU. #2995 (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showpost.php?p=14883340&postcount=2995)
Not aware of a studdering problem on our end. I'll switch my Sammy over to OTA this weekend and see if I see it as well.

and the following post originally posted by andyross63
#2996 (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showpost.php?p=14884213&postcount=2996)
I have a Samsung LN19A450 with firmware 1013.3, and it also has a video stuttering issue with WCIU-DT 26.1 at times. Mostly syndicated repeats like Fraiser, Bernie Mac, etc... I get mine through clear-QAM on Comcast, but it should be identical to the OTA feed. I haven't had a chance to try using an antenna yet.

When that TV is having problems, another TV with the Comcast/Motorola cable box has no problems.

I wonder if it's something to do with time compression??

New stuff like Judge Hatchett (just happens to be on now) is OK, but some of the commercials are stuttering.
and another post from hvs10trk (responding to veets who appears to have a similar if not a more exaggerated version of the problem) and saying it's a known issue with their “VBR” (variable bit rate) system.
#2135 (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showpost.php?p=13855288&postcount=2135)
Quote:
Originally Posted by veets
HVS,

I am watching Frasier right now on WCIU-DT and the picture is continually going through a cycle of freezing, speeding up and slowing down. Also, the audio is way out of sync. As with the WLS-DT unstable motion issue a few months back, this only occurs on my new Olevia 537H TV. My two LG tuners look normal. I think this is the first time I have watched 26-1 on this particular TV for several weeks so I'm wondering if this has something to do with the new VBR allocation? Most (not all) of the commercials look fine, as do 26-2 and 26-3. Would you like me to continue to monitor and report on this?

Greg

Update: King of Queens is having the same issues.
I love technology; really I do. Its a known problem of our VBR system. WTTW has/had the same exact same problem.
And another very interesting reply from hvs10trk to another Samsung owner with jerking video on WCIU that sums it up for me and says he understands the enormity of the mess and unlikely resolution!
#3221 (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showpost.php?p=15041540&postcount=3221)
Quote:
Originally Posted by bigdnwi
I believe it was mentioned on here a while back, but I just bought a new Samsung LCD (Series 5) model, and during certain shows the video keeps jerking but the audio is OK. It happened last night on Frasier, King of Queens, and George Lopez. However, an episode of Martin was fine. This morning the court shows are OK, but some of the commercials have the same stutter. Also, Analog 26 video is fine. So, is the problem with the Samsung tuner or WCIU?
Honestly probably both. We may be spitting out some data that your tuner doesnt like. We have that effect on random brands.

Note his reply as to who/what is at fault: “Honestly probably both. We may be spitting out some data that your tuner doesnt like. We have that effect on random brands.”

So at this point, how could we get a handle on this? We can't find the fault / fix ourselves, but we could probably determine which receivers are susceptible if we request other's input from the board, and pool the data in a summary table.

Per http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Comparison_of_CECB_units

the CM-7000 uses ST Microelectronics chips STx7707NUC for the Mpeg decoder and and STV0373 for the demodulator. The DTV Pal / TR-40 CRA use almost the same chips STi7707WUDP and STV0373. It would be useful if owners of these in Chicago would chime in on this topic. With such data, a combined effort between the stations in question with the chipset designers might get to the bottom(s) of it.

I know this is a long post, and only those affected may be interested, but I throw this out in hopes it starts a good and useful discussion that may lead to a fix down the road.

Thanks, Jim

tvropro

11-14-08, 12:26 AM

Question for the Chicago area - has anyone noticed a drop in signal quality over the last 4-5 days? I really started noticing it on Sunday, but today my signal quality is horrible. I am getting about 2-4 bars (out of 10 bars) for signal quality, and a lot of stations I am getting no signal at all. Nothing has changed with my antenna setup.

Currently, 0 bars on CBS (usually I have 8-10) and Analog CBS is hardly viewable, 2 bars on NBC (usually 9-10), 6 bars on ABC (normal for me), 3 bars on WGN (usually 9-10), 2 bars on WTTW (usually 8-10), and 4 bars on Fox (Usually always 10).

Any thoughts? Has the change in weather done something? I don't remember it being this bad last year.

Everything has been fine here. If you have moisture in your connector or coax it will attenuate the crap out of your signal. I know years ago when I DX regularly South Bend analog, I has really bad reception after a rain storm I found a few drops of water in the connector, when I cleaned it out all was normal and well. So I would check there first then seal it very well.

mogator88

11-14-08, 01:31 AM

Recently, I've noticed a similar situation on WPWR-DT, channel 50.1. Check out M*A*S*H or Still Standing, especially when there is movement. Judge Alex is not affected. I have an older model tube set, Samsung TX-P2675WH 26" Widescreen HDTV. 26.1 and 50.1 are the only stations I notice this problem. None of the Milwaukee stations do this.

I get this with my Vizio. I'm watching Scrubs on 50.1 at the moment and its really bad.

Rammitinski

11-14-08, 03:43 AM

Well, thanks to a raccoon, it looks like I lost my signal from my rooftop antenna for the winter. Was watching Smallville, and right in the middle of it, it went kaput. Nothing looks detached, but it appears he might've dug his claw into the coax and shorted out the amp from the rain. He had the urge to lay on my bathroom skylight in the rain last night to get warm or something, and climbed up the wooden pole on the deck, then onto the lattice roof, and then onto the antenna mast for the last foot or so to get on the roof. Since it's going to snow later this week, I can't do anything about it 'till next spring.

So I'm back to just the Chicago stations minus CBS with my indoor antenna again. Can't get much now from the rooftop without the amp. Just a couple of stations, but spotty - under 50% and breaking up. Got almost 100 feet of coax with one split. Maybe if I take the amp out of the setup and connect the two wires it'll improve, but I know it won't be much if it does, because it wasn't very good before the split that way.

I guess I can try it again if the weather gets better in a couple of days. But the wiring still has to be replaced anyway - if it's exposed, the snow will affect it.

I'll be going on the third amp in three years and new wiring. Just can't win with this stuff. At this rate I'm never going to get to drop those awful-looking locals from Dish. Oh, well.

zippyfrog

11-14-08, 05:08 AM

Hey Zippyfrog,

Not here...indoor antennas are solid as ever. If your antenna is indoors, I don't know what to tell you, other than do you see interference on the analogs, or just snow? If it's sjust snow, and the antenna is outside...with all of the windy and damp weather we had, sounds like water made in ingress into a connector somewhere...

Thanks for the feedback. I will see if there is some water in the connection somewhere...that could be a real possibility.

dattier

11-14-08, 11:21 AM

... it looks like I lost my signal from my rooftop antenna for the winter.

So I'm back to just the Chicago stations minus CBS with my indoor antenna again. ...

At this rate I'm never going to get to drop those awful-looking locals from Dish. Oh, well.

Youch. Good luck. You probably can get WBBM-DT again when they move to channel 12.

Rammitinski

11-14-08, 02:38 PM

I don't know if I can get 12 from indoors - I'm 41 miles out. The analogs in that range are pretty fuzzy. As far as ABC, I can get WTVO-DT very well - even usually without turning the antenna - so I'm not worried about that. I used to be able to get WIFR-DT from indoors, but I don't have the high entertainment center in the living room with my newer plasma anymore. I have to put the antenna up near the ceiling to get it.

The only other one that gives me a problem is WCIU-DT - it breaks up where I have the antenna set up to get all the other channels reliably. I'll have to bring it down lower everytime I want to watch that channel. Just swiveling it where it's at doesn't seem to do the job.

Actually, I don't get the locals in HD from Dish - just the SD's (which really look bad). But it'd still be nice to save $5.00 off of the bill - especially since I prefer the OTA's on either TV I watch them on anyway (through the Sony DVR on the plasma, and the CM-7000 on the 32" analog).

digitalgas

11-14-08, 02:41 PM

Hi. Newbie here. If I posted in the wrong spot, sorry, please direct me to the right area.

I have a problem I didn't think I had until a couple days ago.

We have 2 Wingard antennas with a couple t.v.'s on each one. They are both 3-4 years old and are/were the top of the line at the time & are supposed to be HD and DIGITAL ready. Although I thought there is no real difference in the antenna between analog & digital. We bought the good coax and have an in line amplifier on the antenna that goes to the set in the living room. They are both on separate 30'+ towers and the one to the flat panel also has a rotor. We are for the most part getting excellent analog reception with this set-up. All but one of our T.V.'s are analog so I knew we would have to do some upgrading before Feb.

My question is, the T.V. in the living room is an LCD flat panel monitor that is digital ready from the factory. I thought we were safe with that one. But, the other morning when they sent out the test to check t.V.'s for digital compatibility, our LCD monitor had the "WARNING YOUR T.V. IS NOT DIGITAL READY" or something to that effect. If it already has a converter built in and still doesn't work, is my only option to go cable or dish? I did a Google search and the local T.V. stations range from 33.8 to 54.4 miles away. According to the Winegard map however, we are within range of many Chicago stations, most with less than the top of the line antenna. We are southwest of Chicago.

Is there additional equipment I can buy to get the digital signal OTA, will the digital signal be boosted after the Feb. date, or am I doomed to switching to cable or dish?

I had planned to replace the analog sets or possibly just buy converters for them. But now that I see the flat panel not picking up the digital signal OTA I may have an unexpected problem. I wonder how many people out here in the sticks will run into the same dilemma?

Thanks in advance for any information or suggestions you may have.

Rammitinski

11-14-08, 03:01 PM

Are you sure you weren't watching the analog version of that channel? If it has an ATSC tuner built-in, you shouldn't get that message on a digital channel.

If the TV's manual states that the TV is "digital-ready", then it very well may not have the tuner. Usually if it says "-ready" that means it's not included - it's just "ready" for hooking one up to. Check the manual to see if it says it has an "ATSC tuner". That's what you would need to receive digital OTA.

kd9fz

11-14-08, 03:22 PM

location - 18.5 miles north northwest of transmiting antennas
ground floor of 3 story in apartment complex - other buildings very close -
in take off / landing pattern for o'hare

receiver #1 - dtt 901 june build - in room with east facing window
antenna - thompson consumer electronics model 120 b (rabbit/loop combo)
no pre-amp
reception quality compilation for the whole test period for receiver #1
DT-52 is usually 80% on signal meter - DT-7 was 40 - 50 % without re-orientating antenna -
moving dipole brought DT-7 up to 60 - 70% strength with DT-52 dropping to close to the same signal strength -

all three sub-channels where observed -
DT -7.1 - analog cc1 present, cc2 depending on program, digital service 1 present, SAP depending on program
DT -7.2 - same as DT - 7.1
DT -7.3 - no analog cc1, cc2 or digital service 1 present, no SAP
audio quality -not tested

receiver #2 - dtt 901 june build - in room with north facing window
antenna - rabbit ears that came with ancient tv
no pre-amp
reception quality compilation for the whole test period for receiver #2

DT-52 is usually 60% on signal meter -DT-7 was 20 - 40 % without re-orientating antenna -
moving dipole brought DT-7 up to 50 - 60% strength with DT-52 dropping to 20 - 50% - lots of fluctuation of signals on both channels
with loss of video when signals at minimum

all three sub-channels where observed -
DT -7.1 - analog cc1 present, cc2 depending on program, digital service 1 present, SAP depending on program
DT -7.2 - same as DT - 7.1
DT -7.3 - no analog cc1, cc2 or digital service 1 present, no SAP
audio quality -not tested

receiver #3 - windows media center with ViXS Pure TV-U 48B0 card
antenna - rabbit ears
no pre-amp
reception quality compilation for the whole test period for receiver #3

as the media center uses a downloaded guide from microsoft, i can only gather signal strength data -
the software only sees DT 7 as being on frequency 52
i manually assigned an unused channel to frequency 7 to see the signal strength -
with a lot of antenna fiddling i can get 4 out of 6 bars for strength
but this is not a sure lock with this receiver - takes 5 bars for a sure lock
signal strength also fluctuated with each scan pass for strength

personal comment - anyone that is relying on windows media center will be at the mercy of what ever info MS puts into their guide data for channel assignments - i already had problems getting wgn because of this

kd9fz - the clown prince of rabbit ears
comments, criticisms and questions of sanity are always welcome

digitalgas

11-14-08, 03:27 PM

Thanks Rammitinski. That was it. Didn't even give that a thought. We switched it to Digital and did a scan and there they were. Thanks for your help. I can continue with plan "A" now. :cool:

Rammitinski

11-14-08, 06:28 PM

Thanks Rammitinski. That was it. Didn't even give that a thought. We switched it to Digital and did a scan and there they were. Thanks for your help. I can continue with plan "A" now. :cool:Jeez - and all this time you were watching the analog channels on your display. Oh, well - better late than never. :)

zippyfrog

11-14-08, 06:36 PM

Hey Zippyfrog,

Not here...indoor antennas are solid as ever. If your antenna is indoors, I don't know what to tell you, other than do you see interference on the analogs, or just snow? If it's sjust snow, and the antenna is outside...with all of the windy and damp weather we had, sounds like water made in ingress into a connector somewhere...

Thanks for the feedback. One of the my connections did get some water in it... I have fixed the issue and have strong signals once again.

digitalgas

11-14-08, 06:47 PM

To tell the truth I don't spend too much time in front of the T.V. When I'm in the office I usually have it on for noise as I work on the computer. (Sound is still the same :D ). As long as it still works after Feb. I'm O.K. with it. The picture is better, but a few stations are gone, picked up a few new ones. We have a couple months to decide if that will be a problem. I don't think so, but then again I'm not the only one watching so we will see. Thanks again for the help.

BTW: If I get voted down and it comes to "We need more channels" is there any other hardware I can put on the antenna to boost the signal as opposed to cable or dish?
The ones that might be missed are channel 2 & 32 (they come in but break up) and channel 7 (just isn't there anymore). Channel 5 & 9 are amazingly clear.

Rammitinski

11-14-08, 07:01 PM

BTW: If I get voted down and it comes to "We need more channels" is there any other hardware I can put on the antenna to boost the signal as opposed to cable or dish?Better antenna, better amp, better, newer tuner, more height.

What are you using now?

digitalgas

11-14-08, 07:05 PM

I would have to ask my son, he put it together. I have a couple jobs that have to get finished up yet today. We'll check it out and post what we have as soon as we can.

videoguy60467

11-14-08, 10:08 PM

Falcon_77

11-14-08, 10:44 PM

Considering the VU90XR from Radio shack, or possibly the Winegard HD-7694P HDTV High-VHF Antenna. I am not too sure if that will work for FM.

Any suggestions?

I would suggest looking at the new CM Advantage line. It is billed as 7-69, but the VHF element widths of 60" should allow for decent FM performance, which CM has confirmed.

http://www.solidsignal.com/prod_display.asp?prod=CM-2018

hvs10trk

11-14-08, 11:31 PM

pm3839

11-15-08, 10:33 AM

Location Elgin, 1 MI west of Randall Rd, 1/2 Mi South of Rt 20.......Transmitters are 38.5 miles from me at 105-107 Degrees........I am currently connected to Comcast, and I am also able to get most of the OTA channels on my second floor with just a rabbit ear. (No 2.1 of course)......I am thinking of putting an antenna in the attic for DTV and FM......Considering the VU90XR from Radio shack, or possibly the Winegard HD-7694P HDTV High-VHF Antenna. I am not too sure if that will work for FM......Any suggestions?

yes...try making your own antenna b4 u buy anything....heres a link to a pic of one that i made for almost zero cost and it works extremely well in my attic....this isnt my pic but mine looks exactly like this one....its basically a very simple version/copy of a bow tie antenna....

i am closer than u are to the transmitters but i bet it will still work well enough for u....except for digital CBS ch 3....u probably wont get ch 3 with this antenna because of the distance.....BUT thats ok because it will work for u when they move to ch 12 in february, i bet....and ABC on digital ch 7 will probably work for u too....i'm not sure about FM radio but that may work well enough for u too....

it does work for me on ch 3 (not very well tho) and it even works well on wyin PBS ch 17 from indiana, which is 33 miles from me....and this is with it laying on my attic floor...i cant mount it upright (vertically) like it should be because theres not enough vertical room to do that in my attic.....i just laid it down and it worked well where i left it....

i know this antenna looks crude and ridiculously simple but thats the beauty of it >> its really ez to make, costs next to nothing and yet works quite well.....assuming you'll be using coax and not 300 ohm twin lead the only thing missing in this pic is the $2 matching transformer/balun, which is attached at the center of the antennas two elements....i made mine with two straightened coat hanger wires, a small piece of wood and the matching transformer....just like in this pic...dimensions, etc are shown here too >

http://www.flickr.com/photos/21971251@N04/2120500361/

theres a also a huge thread/discussion of it here >

http://www.digitalhome.ca/forum/showthread.php?t=81982

but its ez to get caught up in details there that make it seem difficult to make and use....just try the simple version like i did and see how lucky u get....u can always build a more complicated version later....

mikek

11-15-08, 12:15 PM

sebenste

11-15-08, 02:15 PM

BTW: If I get voted down and it comes to "We need more channels" is there any other hardware I can put on the antenna to boost the signal as opposed to cable or dish?
The ones that might be missed are channel 2 & 32 (they come in but break up) and channel 7 (just isn't there anymore). Channel 5 & 9 are amazingly clear.

On a 30' tower, you should be getting them all good; sounds like you are losing signal due to the long cable run. Put this as close to your antennas as possible, and the powered portion as close to the TV as possible (but not past a signal split):

https://www.tselectronic.com/winegard/ap_preamp.html

That should boost your signals to acceptable levels. You can order it online or go to Tri-State and pick it up directly (they're in Mt. Prospect).

sebenste

11-15-08, 02:21 PM

I was wondering if anybody can figure this one out.

On my LG TV from 2006 I am having problems picking up OTA digital signals from channels broadcasting from 40s and 50s.

On my other TVs (all using the same antenna) the signals are rock solid.

All the other channels on my LG are near 100%, including channel 2.

On some days the channels in question (7, 11, 50) the signal goes to nearly 100% like on all the other channels. So I think the problem is solved, but then later in the day or the next day the signal gets bad again.

On the signal meter it jumps up and down a lot.

I can't figure this one out and I was hoping someone can come up with any ideas.

It is not an antenna problem and it only happens on this particular tv.

-mk

Hi MK,

Sounds like two possible problems:

1. If this TV is at the "end of the line" of an antenna two or three-way split, the higher-up channels will be the first to suffer. The signal meter is actually a signal *quality* meter, and does not show signal *strength*. It is more than possible (like with me) that you can have a pretty weak signal, but decent enough so that the signal meter shows that it is decent.

2. Your cable run is long, and you are losing signal at the higher end channels. If the cable is RG-59, replace it with RG-6 dual or preferably quad shielded.

Since you split the signal, on the days when this is happening, try running the cable directly from the antenna to the TV, using an RG-6 "barrel connector" if needed. If that solves the problem, you'll need a signal amplifier as your signal is marginal on high UHF channels. I recommend the one I talked about in the post just above this one.

sebenste

11-15-08, 02:27 PM

Location Elgin, 1 MI west of Randall Rd, 1/2 Mi South of Rt 20.

Transmitters are 38.5 miles from me at 105-107 Degrees.

I am currently connected to Comcast, and I am also able to get most of the OTA channels on my second floor with just a rabbit ear. (No 2.1 of course)

I am thinking of putting an antenna in the attic for DTV and FM.
Considering the VU90XR from Radio shack, or possibly the Winegard HD-7694P HDTV High-VHF Antenna. I am not too sure if that will work for FM.

Any suggestions?

Hi VideoGuy,

Falcon77's suggestion is OK if it is outdoors, but in the attic, that's not good enough; I know, because I know someone in South Elgin who has a similar antenna and has had trouble locking stuff with a similar UHF/VHF antenna.
With a signal preamp, you may be able to get everything, but if I were you, I'd want a big enough signal "pad". How big is your attic...will this fit?

https://www.tselectronic.com/winegard/hd7084.html

If not, the 7082 should be OK...

https://www.tselectronic.com/winegard/hd7084.html

I would also get the Winegard AP-8700 preamplifier:

https://www.tselectronic.com/winegard/ap_preamp.html

That way, you trap out the strong 94.3 FM and 103.9 FM in your area,
and you ensure the signal makes it down to your TV with no problem.

If those are too big, then use the preamp with the antenna Falcon77 recommended, but be advised, you won't get WBBM with it.

digitalgas

11-15-08, 03:40 PM

On a 30' tower, you should be getting them all good; sounds like you are losing signal due to the long cable run. Put this as close to your antennas as possible, and the powered portion as close to the TV as possible (but not past a signal split):

https://www.tselectronic.com/winegard/ap_preamp.html

That should boost your signals to acceptable levels. You can order it online or go to Tri-State and pick it up directly (they're in Mt. Prospect).

That might be our weak link. I asked Jeff if he remembered what our amp was and he said it was a cheap Radio Shack® unit. When we installed this originally (bought monitor, coax, amp & antenna at the same time), we didn't really need the amp but bought a cheap one just to insure we would get a good picture. We'll try the Winegard amp & see if the reception improves. Thanks sebenste.

sebenste

11-15-08, 06:06 PM

That might be our weak link. I asked Jeff if he remembered what our amp was and he said it was a cheap Radio Shack® unit. When we installed this originally (bought monitor, coax, amp & antenna at the same time), we didn't really need the amp but bought a cheap one just to insure we would get a good picture. We'll try the Winegard amp & see if the reception improves. Thanks sebenste.

Sure. If you split the signal more than two ways with long cable, get the AP-8275 instead.

digitalgas

11-15-08, 06:26 PM

We have 2 sets on one antenna and 3 on the other. Both identical winegards.
Would it be a good idea to get the AP-8275 for both? The one with 2 has 1 set in the living room and the other in my office. The run to the office (after the splitter) is another 60'-70' length of cable.

sebenste

11-15-08, 09:03 PM

zippyfrog

11-15-08, 09:42 PM

Falcon_77

11-15-08, 10:51 PM

If those are too big, then use the preamp with the antenna Falcon77 recommended, but be advised, you won't get WBBM with it.

From what I've read, it doesn't seem worth it to spend extra money on Low-VHF for WBBM/3, especially since they are moving to 12 in a few months.

However, the 7084 is a solid antenna for sure, but maneuvering it in an attic is not quite as easy. A CM4228 is great in an attic, for ease of installation, but a separate antenna would be needed for FM and possibly upper VHF. I have a 4228 paired with a YA1713 in my attic. I also have a Y5-2-6 for testing purposes.

HDTV TOM

11-15-08, 11:02 PM

What is going on with Weather Plus? Currently I have flipped to it 3x in the last hour and it has been on the west regional radar and the time in the lower left has been 7:35pm (over an hour ago!). Is something wrong with it?

Channel 5 doesn't have any problems. They never have any problems. Everything is just fine. Just keep watching NBC and NEVER mention this again.

That's the reply you'll get if you contact Ken Jackson, Chief Engineer of WMAQ-TV.

But seriously, folks, I see the same thing on my TV and you see the same thing on YOUR TV, but they didn't even have working HDTV's in the NBC 5 newsroom. They failed the soft test last Wednesday and had to go out and buy a bunch of CECB's. At least they owned up to it on the air.

Weather plus is slated to go dark early in 2009, so enjoy the freeze frame; and remember, it's 7:35 somewhere.:rolleyes:

bluegras

11-16-08, 10:06 AM

hey hvs just to let you know there is no sound coming out on metv i just wanted to let you know

thanks

Allen Culver
Streator,IL

andyross63

11-16-08, 10:17 AM

WMAQ-DT 5.2 still frozen as of this morning (9:15AM Sun).

OTA_GUY

11-16-08, 02:43 PM

Observing an intermittent horizontal scan line artifact at the top 1/3 of the screen.

Is it Fox or my projector?

rec630

11-16-08, 05:57 PM

WMAQ-DT 5.2 still frozen as of this morning (9:15AM Sun).

Seems to be OK now late Sun afternoon

cheer

11-16-08, 11:06 PM

Anyone notice a problem during Desperate Housewives tonight? Started out in HD but the center channel seemed to be missing (no vocals), then switched to SD 4x3 with vocals restored, then went back and forth a couple more times before I gave up.

Also, I noticed yesterday during the college football game that many, many commercials were missing the center channel. I normally watch through U-Verse, but I noticed the same problem on OTA as well.

PitVipers

11-16-08, 11:42 PM

Anyone notice a problem during Desperate Housewives tonight? Started out in HD but the center channel seemed to be missing (no vocals), then switched to SD 4x3 with vocals restored, then went back and forth a couple more times before I gave up.

I didn't see it for myself, but my wife complained that Desperate Housewives was missing audio for about 25% of the show. Not sure if it was a channel 7 problem or a national issue, but I'd bet on a local problem

sebenste

11-17-08, 01:43 AM

From what I've read, it doesn't seem worth it to spend extra money on Low-VHF for WBBM/3, especially since they are moving to 12 in a few months.

However, the 7084 is a solid antenna for sure, but maneuvering it in an attic is not quite as easy. A CM4228 is great in an attic, for ease of installation, but a separate antenna would be needed for FM and possibly upper VHF. I have a 4228 paired with a YA1713 in my attic. I also have a Y5-2-6 for testing purposes.

If one doesn't mind, then this is true. But, don't be surprised if channels 4, 5 or 6 don't get used someday by a full power station. As it is, channel 4 is planning on being occupied by a low-power station in the future.

veets

11-17-08, 01:46 AM

Anyone notice a problem during Desperate Housewives tonight? Started out in HD but the center channel seemed to be missing (no vocals), then switched to SD 4x3 with vocals restored, then went back and forth a couple more times before I gave up.

Yup. I heard a call from the desperate housewife in my family, "What's wrong with channel 7." Same issues you mentioned. Signal looked good so I figured something was up at the station.

TheKorn

11-17-08, 09:01 AM

Weather plus is slated to go dark early in 2009, so enjoy the freeze frame; and remember, it's 7:35 somewhere.:rolleyes:

Dang, that's too bad if it's true. I actually flip to weather plus usually once a day or better. (and I really detest ABC's version of weather plus -- yuck!)

goaliebob99

11-17-08, 09:34 AM

Observing an intermittent horizontal scan line artifact at the top 1/3 of the screen.

Is it Fox or my projector?

I noticed it and initially thought I had a hairline fracture in the glass of my RPTV. Then when it switched over to an att commercial, it was gone. Fox is crappy anyhow, I wish they would upgrade from the crap they put out that they call hd.

On a side note, Sorry I couldn't be around for the WLS DT7 Test as I was hoping to be. On Wednesday night, at 851pm (for those of you who dont know) My wife and I gave birth to a beautiful baby girl. @ 8lbs 2 oz and 20 inches long. Although I can now say my wife was pushing to kid rock :D during the CMA's. From the reading of this thread it looks like everything went well and the flash over from 52 to 7 with analog shutdown isn't going to be as dramatic as I had it to be in my mind. Although it will be an end of an era. I do have one thing for CBS, do you need help rebuilding your transmitter? Lets get it started, the sooner the better :D :)

dattier

11-17-08, 12:20 PM

WCIU-DT (27)
26-1 : Independent - 720p - DD 5.1
26-2 : WWME-TV 23 SD simulcast - 480i
26-3 : WMEU-CA 48 SD simulcast - 480i
26-6 : FBT (Formerly WFBT-CA) - 480i

Please put an entry for ThisTV on 26.4 in there.

(APP)WCHU-LD : 300 W (vhf) - (6) - IND
(APP)WLFM-LD : 100 W (vhf) - (44) - IND
Won't WLFM be flash-cutting on 6 and WCHU (whose analog channel 61 is out of core) moving to RF44? I don't know which is supposed have 300 W and which one 100 W, though.

swiat

11-17-08, 01:37 PM

Just came across this today... looks like WEDE-CA is going to digital on the same frequency with a very directional antenna and pattern exclusively south of the loop.

Licensee: FIRST UNITED, INC.
Service Designation: DC Digital Class A television station

Channel: 34 590 - 596 MHz Application
File No.: BDFCDTA-20081014AAM Facility ID number: 66978
CDBS Application ID No.: 1265596

41° 52' 44.00" N Latitude Site in Canadian Border Zone
87° 38' 10.00" W Longitude (NAD 27)

Polarization:
Effective Radiated Power (ERP): 15. kW ERP
Antenna Height Above Average Terrain: - meters HAAT -- Calculate HAAT
Antenna Height Above Mean Sea Level: 625.4 meters AMSL
Antenna Height Above Ground Level: 444. meters AGL

CruelInventions

11-17-08, 05:03 PM

Yup. I heard a call from the desperate housewife in my family, "What's wrong with channel 7." Same issues you mentioned. Signal looked good so I figured something was up at the station.

Similar issue out here in Glen Ellyn. Full screen 16:9 HD.. no dialog (just the music track was audible). Then when it would randomly drop down to a 4:3 image, the vocal track would return. Kept going back 'n forth like that for most of the episode. weird.

hvs10trk

11-17-08, 05:21 PM

Similar issue out here in Glen Ellyn. Full screen 16:9 HD.. no dialog (just the music track was audible). Then when it would randomly drop down to a 4:3 image, the vocal track would return. Kept going back 'n forth like that for most of the episode. weird.

That's them trying to make things work. We're setup the same way to where main chain is fully HD, backup is SD upconverted to HD.

sebenste

11-17-08, 05:56 PM

Please put an entry for ThisTV on 26.4 in there.

Won't WLFM be flash-cutting on 6 and WCHU (whose analog channel 61 is out of core) moving to RF44?* I don't know which is supposed have 300 W and which one 100 W, though.

#1 Done! Was out of town when it happened, then forgot to add it. thanks for catching that.

#2 Not sure. They're applications and CP's but so far, I'm not totally sure which one is which. For now, I'm keeping everything as is.

wvasko

11-17-08, 08:03 PM

CruelInventions

11-17-08, 08:15 PM

That's them trying to make things work. We're setup the same way to where main chain is fully HD, backup is SD upconverted to HD.

I didn't mention it in my post that you're responding to, but yes, it did strike me as if something intelligent was going on throughout most of the length of the misbehaving program. It wasn't a totally random series of events. By "intelligent" I mean a deliberate series of changes were being attempted in order to try and get everything up & running correctly.

sebenste

11-17-08, 09:02 PM

Ok I'm 90 miles from Chicago and have a 50 ft tower with a Channel Master 4228 antenna and have had good reception I watch Cubs/Bears/Bulls etc Ch 5, Ch 7, Ch 9, Ch 32, I have never received Ch 2. After reading some replies today there is Ch 12 that WBBM is moving to. What are the odds that I will be able to pick it up then, or am I just beating a dead horse.

Well, there's no question about this: beyond 65 miles at 50' above ground level, you're below line-of-sight. After that, no promises. And the ChannelMaster 4228 was never designed (until the HD version came out) to receive those channels.

Having said that...50' feet in the air, you may get it intermittently. But no matter how big your antenna is, if the signal isn't there, it isn't there. Your chances are definitely better, but by how much can't be seen until they flip the transmitter on.

wvasko

11-18-08, 06:40 AM

Well, there's no question about this: beyond 65 miles at 50' above ground level, you're below line-of-sight. After that, no promises. And the ChannelMaster 4228 was never designed (until the HD version came out) to receive those channels.

Having said that...50' feet in the air, you may get it intermittently. But no matter how big your antenna is, if the signal isn't there, it isn't there. Your chances are definitely better, but by how much can't be seen until they flip the transmitter on.
Gilbert
Thank you for quick answer, this setup is about 4 mths old and the tower installer said it's around 57 feet to top of tower. He also said the 4228 is a UHF antenna which I know is adequate for HD signals. Is there an HD version that is better than what I have now. I realize answers on any of this stuff is a ball park figure and can vary from setup to setup but I kind of like to get educated guesses anyway.

sebenste

11-18-08, 10:53 AM

Gilbert
Thank you for quick answer, this setup is about 4 mths old and the tower installer said it's around 57 feet to top of tower. He also said the 4228 is a UHF antenna which I know is adequate for HD signals. Is there an HD version that is better than what I have now. I realize answers on any of this stuff is a ball park figure and can vary from setup to setup but I kind of like to get educated guesses anyway.

Yes, the new ChannelMaster 4228HD handles channels 7-13 now. It does so at a bit of a sacrifice t the UHF channels, but at a gain to the VHF channels.

What I would do is just hang tight...wait until February or March and then see if you can get it.

wvasko

11-18-08, 11:10 AM

Yes, the new ChannelMaster 4228HD handles channels 7-13 now. It does so at a bit of a sacrifice t the UHF channels, but at a gain to the VHF channels.

What I would do is just hang tight...wait until February or March and then see if you can get it.
Well as you get older time appears to be moving much faster, it will be a short wait. I'd ask why the sacrifice to UHF channels but I know it's probably the reception gods working overtime so we don't get to comfortable or arrogant. (always likes to knock us mortals down a notch)

sebenste

11-18-08, 11:36 AM

Well as you get older time appears to be moving much faster, it will be a short wait. I'd ask why the sacrifice to UHF channels but I know it's probably the reception gods working overtime so we don't get to comfortable or arrogant. (always likes to knock us mortals down a notch)

Given a high gain antenna...the more you broaden what channels/frequencies it can get, the lower the gain on each individual channel. You're covering hundreds of megahaertz with that antenna.

kd9fz

11-18-08, 03:48 PM

for about the last week or so, the DTT-901 detects WYCC having gone back
to daylight savings time -

62.2 now shows EDEN in the upper left corner instead of WEDE-CA
some change in affiliation maybe?

did the snow fall effect reception for anyone?

kd9fz
commments, criticisms and questions of sanity are always welcome

dattier

11-18-08, 04:29 PM

for about the last week or so, the DTT-901 detects WYCC having gone back
to daylight savings time -Not for me; I'll check again. But WXFT-DT, WJYS-DT, and WGBO-DT stubbornly cling to DST as if it would stave winter off.62.2 now shows EDEN in the upper left corner instead of WEDE-CA
some change in affiliation maybe?It's been that way (also on analog 34) for a couple of weeks. WJYS still shows "WJYS" in the upper right (on 62 and 62.1), but both WJYS and WEDE have "fn" in the lower right.

wvasko

11-19-08, 06:21 AM

Given a high gain antenna...the more you broaden what channels/frequencies it can get, the lower the gain on each individual channel. You're covering hundreds of megahaertz with that antenna.
I guess the question is just how bad the signal will get, I sure like the clarity etc I get now. Yes, I can wait and see what happens. Who knows I may get lucky and not need anything more than I have now. Again thank you for quick replies.

sebenste

11-19-08, 11:16 AM

I guess the question is just how bad the signal will get, I sure like the clarity etc I get now. Yes, I can wait and see what happens. Who knows I may get lucky and not need anything more than I have now. Again thank you for quick replies.

Well, with the new Cm 4228HD, you will lose a db or two of gain on the UHF channels. Thus, if they are hanging on by a thread (as you imply), just keep everything as is for now. In fact, you can slap on a VHF-HI antenna and run it through a combiner/preamplifier and have the best of both worlds, which is what I do.

andyross63

11-20-08, 09:49 PM

Hey, hvs10trk, I noticed that your marketing or somebody convinced Comcast to rename your channels in the program guide. Unfortunately, there is a problem. Both the SD (6) and HD (183) are named 'The U'. This will trigger a nasty bug in the Comcast DVR's. If you try to set a series recording for a program on the HD channel, it will revert to the lower numbered (typically SD) channel. One of the channels needs to be renamed, but must fit within 5 characters.

http://en.wikibooks.org/wiki/How_to_use_a_Motorola_DVR/Bugs#The_DVR_records_in_SD_when_you.27ve_set_it_to_an_HD_cha nnel

hvs10trk

11-21-08, 06:06 AM

Starsky

11-21-08, 03:33 PM

Question for the Chicago area - has anyone noticed a drop in signal quality over the last 4-5 days? I really started noticing it on Sunday, but today my signal quality is horrible. I am getting about 2-4 bars (out of 10 bars) for signal quality, and a lot of stations I am getting no signal at all. Nothing has changed with my antenna setup.

Currently, 0 bars on CBS (usually I have 8-10) and Analog CBS is hardly viewable, 2 bars on NBC (usually 9-10), 6 bars on ABC (normal for me), 3 bars on WGN (usually 9-10), 2 bars on WTTW (usually 8-10), and 4 bars on Fox (Usually always 10).

Any thoughts? Has the change in weather done something? I don't remember it being this bad last year.
I have been getting eratic reception with WTTW the last few days, some sub channels not being found and others showing up under the wrong sub. Not sure what is going on, WTTW has always been very solid for me (60640) but not anymore. Hopefully it's just a temporary issue.

goaliebob99

11-22-08, 07:23 PM

Has anyone noticed the analoge sparkles on WLS's Digital channel? It looks like they are running a 16 x 9 anlologe picuture and then converting it to digital. There are alot of sparkles tonight and the PQ looks bad. The only time that I have known for sparkles to be present in a digital signal is when there was analog signal involved. If the signal was 100 percent digital there is no way for sparkles to be introduced. Or am I wrong?

hvs10trk

11-22-08, 07:27 PM

goaliebob99

11-22-08, 08:04 PM

Sparkles can also be digital noise introduced within the broadcast plant.

Thanks, I wasn't sure if there was a such thing as Digital sparkles.

tvropro

11-23-08, 08:41 AM

Sparkles can also be digital noise introduced within the broadcast plant.

I've seen Sparkles on analog C band and noticed a similar static or random specs on some digital feeds here and there. Since sparkles were caused by weak signal on analog and digital don't show that. It would have to be an electrical impulse noise such as a noisy ignition in a car can do to a tv picture. I kinda figured seeing that on digital here and there it was caused by electrical interference somewhere in the plant.

dicko2

11-23-08, 02:43 PM

sebenste

11-23-08, 06:11 PM

Anyone heard anything about the bill in congress to delay the analog shutdown?

http://www.multichannel.com/article/CA6616518.html
"The Bush administration, in a shift, supports legislation to allow some analog TV stations to remain on the air for 30 days beyond Feb. 17, 2009 in order to provide public safety announcements and information about the digital TV transition"

Isnt this going to make a mess of the band plan and cause interference what with all the stations changing frequencies?

-dickm

Yes, for up to 30 days. But this is *optional*. Furthermore, stations like 7, 60, and 66 can't do it: their analog channels are above 51, and in the case of channel 7, they're going back to their analog signal channel, so they can't do it. 2 and 5 can, but they aren't going to interfere with anyone. :D We'll see who stays on, and who doesn't. I'm not concerned at this point. And with our economy in the dumper, the electric bills will be going down dramatically for most stations...a great incentive to turn off the lights on February 17.

dattier

11-24-08, 12:49 AM

Furthermore, stations like 7, 60, and 66 can't do it: their [current digital] channels are above 51 ...Neither can 38 or 50, since their analog frequencies are promised to other stations. Not sure about 44, because I don't know when WCHU has to vacate 61.

I've heard various things about LP's and Class A's who are out of core: that they have no set deadline yet to move; that they must move (even if they remain analog) by transition time on 2009-02-17; and that LP's and Class A's in the 52-59 range (of which we have none here) can stay there a while longer while those in the 60-69 range (such as WCHU) must get out by 2009-02-17.

Trip in VA

11-24-08, 02:53 AM

The reason you've heard multiple things is because the FCC has said multiple things. I believe the last thing you said is correct, but I don't think anyone's really sure. The 52-59 at least do not have a fixed deadline, regardless.

- Trip

hvs10trk

11-24-08, 08:58 AM

Can those that see this please verify which programs are causing this and is it a consistent problem with those particular shows?

dicko2

11-24-08, 11:26 AM

sebenste

11-24-08, 12:21 PM

I'm just worried about co-channel interference being extended for another month. I was soooo looking forward to finally being able to get WCIU reliably here in Woodstock. Madison really does a job with interfering with most Chicago stations and now things are going to be stretched out another month.

Again, this is not a requirement, and nobody knows who will stay on or shut off. WKOW-TV/DT has a 6 million watt ERP power bill they'll have to pay if they keep it on. I bet they'd love to can the 5 MW analog feed ASAP.

Trip in VA

11-24-08, 12:31 PM

Again, this is not a requirement, and nobody knows who will stay on or shut off. WISC-TV/DT has a 6 million watt ERP power bill they'll have to pay if they keep it on. I bet they'd love to can the 5 MW analog feed ASAP.

Who do you mean?

WISC is 24 + 603. WKOW is 2400 + 171.

I'm trying to figure out who in the area has a bill that high.

- Trip

sebenste

11-24-08, 01:00 PM

Who do you mean?

WISC is 24 + 603. WKOW is 2400 + 171.

I'm trying to figure out who in the area has a bill that high.

- Trip

Gahh! Sorry, my typo, I meant WKOW. They have a pending 1 megawatt CP...and I thought they had a 5 MW analog? Still, at 2.4 million watts ERP, that's a bill I wouldn't want to pay for 30 more days...

Rammitinski

11-24-08, 04:47 PM

Still, at 2.4 million watts ERP, that's a bill I wouldn't want to pay for 30 more days...Sell a little more commercial time, and maybe you could manage it. :)

andyross63

11-24-08, 05:32 PM

Can those that see this please verify which programs are causing this and is it a consistent problem with those particular shows?
I see it every day with repeats like George Lopez, King of Queens. The Peoples Court on right now is fine, but some of the commercials (such as iRbobot) are jittery. Some commercials, such as Dept Stoppers, were fine. A commercial for House of Payne was jittery. I tried to record some with my camera, but it's just a regular still camera, and the video itself is somewhat jittery.

dwright944

11-24-08, 06:02 PM

Can those that see this please verify which programs are causing this and is it a consistent problem with those particular shows?

The King of Queens and George Lopez are consistently bad to the point they are not watchable on my HDTV set, but fine on my SD set.
Right now, The People's Court is on and it seems to be fine for a while, then there is a pixelation glitch and the video is out of sync with the audio, then another pixelation glitch and everything is back in sync for a short time, then out, then in, etc. This is similar to what I see on WTTW-DT, 11.1.

hvs10trk

11-24-08, 06:05 PM

The King of Queens and George Lopez are consistently bad to the point they are not watchable on my HDTV set, but fine on my SD set.
Right now, The People's Court is on and it seems to be fine for a while, then there is a pixelation glitch and the video is out of sync with the audio, then another pixelation glitch and everything is back in sync for a short time, then out, then in, etc. This is similar to what I see on WTTW-DT, 11.1.

What make/model tuner are you seeing this on?

andyross63

11-24-08, 06:23 PM

I see it every day with repeats like George Lopez, King of Queens. The Peoples Court on right now is fine, but some of the commercials (such as iRbobot) are jittery. Some commercials, such as Dept Stoppers, were fine. A commercial for House of Payne was jittery. I tried to record some with my camera, but it's just a regular still camera, and the video itself is somewhat jittery.
Just to add: Samsung LN19A450, firmware 1013.3.

The way it looks on mine, it's as if it can't keep the audio and video in sync. The audio itself is fine, but the video will sometimes jump ahead or even look like fast-forward, freeze, then start. Or it will freeze, then jump.

The SD subchannels are fine.

dwright944

11-24-08, 07:58 PM

What make/model tuner are you seeing this on?

It is a Samsung TX-P2675WH, CRT that I've had about 4 years.

The Bulls game is coming through beautifully.

dattier

11-26-08, 10:10 PM

Friday at 9:30 AM CST on WBBM there will be a Comcast-sponsored half-hour on the transition to digital television.

We've all seen Comcast's commercials for how being their customer makes it all a snap with nothing for you to do.

It will be interesting to see how much of the show will be impartial information, how much of it will be pressure to let Comcast solve the problem for you, and how much of the commercial time will be Comcast ads.

carlpa

11-27-08, 12:31 AM

When NBC's Weather Plus goes off soon what do you think WMAQ will do with 5.2?

Rammitinski

11-27-08, 01:14 AM

Keep the slot open and eventually fill it with something else probably.

sebenste

11-27-08, 01:28 AM

Friday at 9:30 AM CST on WBBM there will be a Comcast-sponsored half-hour on the transition to digital television.

It will be interesting to see how much of the show will be impartial information,

About as long as it took you to write that sentence...

how much of it will be pressure to let Comcast solve the problem for you,

About 29 minutes, 53 seconds worth, which includes..

and how much of the commercial time will be Comcast ads.

:D

sebenste

11-27-08, 01:30 AM

Keep the slot open and eventually fill it with something else probably.

I wish they'd just show their own doppler radar from Naperville. Give 'em 500 kb of that 19.2 megs instead of the 2-4mb they have now, and boom! Instant major picture improvement on 5.1.

Hey, if you're putting out 750,000 watts (which that radar does), a 500 kb/sec subby to show it is a win-win for all!

kd9fz

11-27-08, 01:56 AM

with a dtt 901 , while watching wls dtv 7, i pressed the display button
on the remote and the time was about 12 minutes fast

wycc is still an hour fast when pressing the remote display

finally, for most of the evening, on all the dtv 26 sub-channels
pressing display button on the remote showed no program info

wondering if anyone else noticed

kd9fz
comments, critcisms and questions of sanity are always welcome

Rammitinski

11-27-08, 02:49 AM

As sucky as the DVTVPal is for picture quality, I'm actually getting the consistently same time across all the channels with it now.

So if you're using one in the Chicago market, you might get the same results. Still, like I said, the PQ really blows chunks, and going from something like the Zenith to that might be pretty painful for some.

dattier

11-27-08, 08:55 PM

Channel 62.2's label is now coming in as EDEN instead of WJYSDT2. 62.1 is still labeled WJYS-DT.

hvs10trk

11-27-08, 09:20 PM

finally, for most of the evening, on all the dtv 26 sub-channels
pressing display button on the remote showed no program info

kd9fz
comments, critcisms and questions of sanity are always welcome

Thanks for the heads up! Our PSIP mega machine hiccups everyonce and a while. Its fixed now.

jet987

11-28-08, 12:54 AM

hvs10trk

11-28-08, 10:14 AM

Location: in Chicago, near Western and Armitage, NW side. 4 miles from Sears and Hancock.

Building: condo on 2nd floor of 6 story building, facing north and east, 6-story building just to the east of me, 3-story building south and southeast of me across the street. Sears is 136 degrees, Hancock is 116 degrees.

TV & Antenna: Toshiba 42HL67 LCD tv with Terk HDTVa indoor antenna pointed to the southeast towards Sears. I've tried 3 other indoor antennas with same results. I'd like to stay away from outdoor antennas as I'd have to drill a hole thru my balcony door to route the cable.

Problem: I can't get any picture on WBBM (2.1), just 1 or 2 signal bars. All other local channels come out clear.

Is there any antenna out there or anything I can do to get WBBM? I've seen the first few posts of this threads about WBBM being hard to get.
Well being on the NW side where you are, you probably have a bad case of multipath. (similar to analog ghosting) The problem is the reflections off of Sears tower from WBBM and the new Trump tower is probably giving you bad reflections enough to confuse your tuner. Nearby buildings probably aren't helping your cause either. The only thing I could recommend is a more directional antenna.

sebenste

11-28-08, 06:54 PM

Looks like we'll have more new members show up pretty soon. At least out here in DeKalb and along Randall Road in Geneva, the "doorbuster" HDTV's were sold out almost instantly at Best Buy, Wal-Mart, Meijer, etc...even the "2 day" HDTV deals on this "Black Friday".

Falcon_77

11-28-08, 09:59 PM

Is there any antenna out there or anything I can do to get WBBM? I've seen the first few posts of this threads about WBBM being hard to get.

The best option is probably to wait until February. Once they move to 12, the situation should improve greatly, though I have concerns with upper VHF as well.

Trying to get Low-VHF DTV on an indoor antenna (or any antenna in many cases), is a fruitless exercise for many.

pm3839

11-28-08, 10:34 PM

with a dtt 901 , while watching wls dtv 7, i pressed the display button on the remote and the time was about 12 minutes fast....wycc is still an hour fast when pressing the remote display......finally, for most of the evening, on all the dtv 26 sub-channels
pressing display button on the remote showed no program info......wondering if anyone else noticed.....kd9fz
comments, critcisms and questions of sanity are always welcome

yes..... i saw all that as well....and i think ch 26 had the same problem several weeks ago, no program info for days at a time back then....

pm3839

11-28-08, 10:46 PM

As sucky as the DVTVPal is for picture quality, I'm actually getting the consistently same time across all the channels with it now......So if you're using one in the Chicago market, you might get the same results. Still, like I said, the PQ really blows chunks, and going from something like the Zenith to that might be pretty painful for some.

i'm not looking to start any kind of ridiculous arguments with u here but i have to totally disagree about the TR40 (same as the DTVPAL) picture quality (PQ)....i've had two TR40's for about 3 months now and the PQ is very good....excellent, even....and thats on both the rf channel 3 output and the baseband video output....all else being equal, i cant understand how u have such a totally different opinion of it....

just my opinion...i dont want to start any crazy arguments....

mogator88

11-29-08, 01:59 AM

Can those that see this please verify which programs are causing this and is it a consistent problem with those particular shows?

Can't say for sure, especially since I've given up on WCIU, but it seemed to happen on every show I enjoy watching. I have a Vizio 37" LCD.

Rammitinski

11-29-08, 02:06 AM

i'm not looking to start any kind of ridiculous arguments with u here but i have to totally disagree about the TR40 (same as the DTVPAL) picture quality (PQ)....i've had two TR40's for about 3 months now and the PQ is very good....excellent, even....and thats on both the rf channel 3 output and the baseband video output....all else being equal, i cant understand how u have such a totally different opinion of it....

just my opinion...i dont want to start any crazy arguments....Opinion noted. Just for the record though, what size screen are you watching it on, and what kind of signal have you been used to watching up 'till now?

Also, have you compared the Pal head-to-head with any of the other boxes with higher-rated PQ (according to every reviewer out there), such as, say, the CM-7000 (over s-video) or the Zenith? Or the Lasonic, Sansonic or Tivax?

If your TV is at least 26"-27" or over, be prepared for a big surprise. If it's 24" or under, you might not even notice that much difference, though.

hvs10trk

11-29-08, 03:48 PM

yes..... i saw all that as well....and i think ch 26 had the same problem several weeks ago, no program info for days at a time back then....

Yeah and unfortunately theres almost nothing out there that waves a red flag when the guide doesn't update.

hvs10trk

11-29-08, 03:49 PM

Can't say for sure, especially since I've given up on WCIU, but it seemed to happen on every show I enjoy watching. I have a Vizio 37" LCD.

I think I have a fix and I'm going to try something monday morning. So say after noon on monday if its still seen, let me know please.

bellbm

11-29-08, 06:31 PM

I noticed Chicago Tonight is now on WTTW Digital, in widescreen. Does anyone know if this is HD? I'm thinking it's not, but you never with Ch. 11.
If not, I hope they go HD soon.

sebenste

11-29-08, 07:45 PM

Just to let y'all know...WBBM-DT will be testing channel 12, probably in January. That's all I have so far, but if I get more details, I'll let you know so that we can tell them how their signal is, just like we did for WLS-DT. However, I was told that if you can pick up WTTW-TV analog 11 decently, you should pick up channel 12 just fine. They're using the exact equipment you see channel 11 doing now, minus the digital transmitter, of course.

Enjoy the snow about to come...from the atmosphere, and not from your set. :D

Wireman134

11-29-08, 09:42 PM

Any body notice the sync. problem on WBBM-DT? It's like watching a Japaneses movie...

surf_fun85

11-30-08, 02:58 AM

Keep the slot open and eventually fill it with something else probably.

oh.. please dont give out ideas :rolleyes:

surf_fun85

11-30-08, 03:16 AM

I noticed Chicago Tonight is now on WTTW Digital, in widescreen. Does anyone know if this is HD? I'm thinking it's not, but you never with Ch. 11.
If not, I hope they go HD soon.

There target date for HD is for sometime next year... so see this.. means something is up there..I dont know :rolleyes: :cool:

surf_fun85

11-30-08, 03:20 AM

Enjoy the snow about to come...from the atmosphere, and not from your set. :D

3-5" of that stuff :eek:

dicko2

11-30-08, 09:39 AM

einreb

11-30-08, 12:32 PM

Rammitinski

11-30-08, 01:38 PM

oh.. please dont give out ideas :rolleyes:I was actually being sarcastic when I said that, in case some people had the wild idea that they might consider re-distributing back the bandwith. ;)

sebenste

11-30-08, 02:37 PM

For those in the far N and NW burbs, just be aware that WISN analog is on ch12 in Milwaukee so it probably wont be a fair test for those people. Unless of course they shut down for maintenence or some such.

When they do the tests, other stations that are affected have to cooperate, according to the FCC. I don't think WLS had to do that because they don't have any problems with interfering stations. I'm guessing WISN might have to either leave the air or reduce power. I wouldn't worry about it yet.

Vidop

11-30-08, 03:06 PM

There target date for HD is for sometime next year... so see this.. means something is up there..I dont know :rolleyes: :cool:
FYI-WTTW will probably get their HD studio HD cams very early next year. Hopefully before Feb. Right now, the sdi (digital) outputs of the cams are being used with the cams in 16x9 mode. But-this is still SD.

sebenste

11-30-08, 04:44 PM

Hi all. I am in the Western Springs/Lagrange area (60558) and would like some suggestions on improving the 'strength of the signal' to my tuner.

Samsung DTB-H260F
Winegard MS-1000 (per yellow suggestion of antennaweb) roof mounted about 50' of unknown type (reused from direct tv antenna) cable. Some trees in the area directly east of me.

I suspect that I went with a marginal antenna selection, but the look appealed to me.

I don't get channel 2 (edit: I actually get it now), but am not worried about that since I understand that will change next year. What I would like to do is get rid of the every few minutes 'weak or no signal' message that pops up.

My current preference is to continue to use the MS-1000 if I can. While my immediate interest is to improve consistancy of reception, I would also at some point like to add additional tv's to the antenna.

Would an amplifier be the first step? Winegard HDP-269 SquareShooter?

New RG6 cable?

Am I putting lipstick on a pig that doesn't fit my location?

Thanks in advance!

Bernie

It comes with RG-6/quad shielded cable, so you should be good to go with that. With a 15 mile distance between you and Sears tower and line-of-sight to it, I would first check all connections to make sure water hasn't gotten into any, and that all connectors are on tight and that they're not rusted; double check the antenna as well if you can for any damage. And even though it is omnidirectional, try to turn it a bit and see if it helps. Sometimes, they're not 100% omnidirectional. And finally, if that doesn't help, put on a Winegard AP-8700 preamplifer:

http://www.solidsignal.com/prod_display.asp?PROD=SAP8700

einreb

11-30-08, 05:38 PM

It comes with RG-6/quad shielded cable, so you should be good to go with that. With a 15 mile distance between you and Sears tower and line-of-sight to it, I would first check all connections to make sure water hasn't gotten into any, and that all connectors are on tight and that they're not rusted; double check the antenna as well if you can for any damage. And even though it is omnidirectional, try to turn it a bit and see if it helps. Sometimes, they're not 100% omnidirectional. And finally, if that doesn't help, put on a Winegard AP-8700 preamplifer:

Thanks! Good info.

goaliebob99

11-30-08, 09:52 PM

I was actually being sarcastic when I said that, in case some people had the wild idea that they might consider re-distributing back the bandwith. ;)

That would be logical and make to much sence.

hvs10trk

11-30-08, 10:09 PM

Why does my number of posts go down from time to time?

bluegras

12-01-08, 12:43 PM

I need some help from you folks

Good morning my friends i wanted to let you know about a channel called ThisTV it is a co-op with Wiegel Broadcasting and MGM Studios.Where this channel broadcasts alot of the old MGM Movies that are not on the air that much.It is avaiable on WCIU 26.4 out of Chicago and i would like to get this channel and also METOO which is on 26.3 or channel 48 which broadcasts alot more of those classic tv shows that you do not hardly see anymore such as Petticoat Junction Gomer Pyle,MR ED and alot more other to name out.I would like to get both of these channels added to our directv lineup and i am having no luck this is where i need your help please contact directv at 1-800-531-5000 and tell them that you want these channels added to your lineup.if you can help me out i sure would appreciate it very much.

Have a great day :-)

Allen Culver
Streator,Illinois

FSugino

12-01-08, 12:53 PM

I need some help from you folks...

I would like to get both of these channels added to our directv lineup and i am having no luck this is where i need your help please contact directv at 1-800-531-5000 and tell them that you want these channels added to your lineup.if you can help me out i sure would appreciate it very much.

Have a great day :-)

Allen Culver
Streator,Illinois

You've posted in the wrong message thread. The topic you want is Chicago, IL - DBS (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=579650). I'm sure you'll find a lot more DIRECTV subs over there.

sebenste

12-01-08, 01:37 PM

Why does my number of posts go down from time to time?

You're not quite the man you used to be...

(insert cheesy drum hit, throws rubber chickens ala Svengoolie)

I'm not sure...maybe because old posts get archived? You got me. maybe hit up Ken H or another admin...

dwright944

12-01-08, 07:45 PM

I think I have a fix and I'm going to try something monday morning. So say after noon on monday if its still seen, let me know please.

The King of Queens is on now and it is jerky and out of sync on my Samsung HD set. Like someone said previously, it is like watching a dubbed Japanese movie. During the 5 PM time slot, The Doctors show was pixilating and going in and out of sync like before.

bigdnwi

12-01-08, 08:30 PM

Yes, the same stutter as before on The King of Queens. Basically, it seems like the video jerks more when a show or commercial was recorded on film. If a show was recorded on tape like Living Single, Martin, or the court shows the video seems to be OK.

jdebuhr

12-01-08, 08:42 PM

Hey guys, I have not been in here for quite some time

I still need to get an antenna.. with the anticipation of WBBM moving to 12.. what would be a good antenna for me? it will probably go in my attic to start..

I am in Bartlett..

I just looked at Antenna Web.. for post Feb 17th, it shows Green for WBBMDT as well as WLSDT, and Yellow for all others.

Any suggestions on a decent antenna?

jdebuhr

12-01-08, 09:08 PM

hmm.. going my the first few pages and wineguard's website they recommend this:

Winegard Sensar III

this one any good?

veets

12-01-08, 11:35 PM

Can those that see this please verify which programs are causing this and is it a consistent problem with those particular shows?

10:35pm: It's happening right now on George Lopez. I'm watching on my Olevia LCD TV. Video has massive judder/stuttering (unwatchable) and audio is way out of sync. It's been like this consistently with certain shows and commercials for a long time. However, video and audio are good on my external LG tuner connected via HDMI to the same TV.

11:40pm: Judder/stutter and out-of-sync audio occurring on That 70s Show.

hvs10trk

12-02-08, 06:11 AM

The King of Queens is on now and it is jerky and out of sync on my Samsung HD set. Like someone said previously, it is like watching a dubbed Japanese movie. During the 5 PM time slot, The Doctors show was pixilating and going in and out of sync like before.

I didnt make the change yet. We may be taking a different approach to this.

Fatawan

12-03-08, 09:02 AM

bluegras

12-03-08, 09:09 AM

bluegras

12-03-08, 09:37 AM

i wanted to let you know that WTTW Channel 11 out of Chicago is now broadcasting in HD

swiat

12-03-08, 10:33 AM

i wanted to let you know that WTTW Channel 11 out of Chicago is now broadcasting in HD

It has been for over two years. Why did you just notice this recently?

swiat

12-03-08, 10:37 AM

i wanted to ask you this yesterday i contacted directv and they told me that the only reason that they would not carry METOO because it is a low power class A Station.Me and my friends have contacted directv and we are having no luck.will WMEU be adding more signal strength when the transition accurs in febuary?Please help me out

Thanks

Allen Culver
Streator,Illinois

Allen, I highly suggest that you and your friends get the DirecTV AM21 receiver that plugs into a DVR. You can get over the air that way. 26-3 has MeToo on and when they light up their own transmitter you may also get it, unless you are in Lake or McHenry counties where it will be a little more sketchy due to co-channel interference from 1 MW WDJT-DT Milwaukee.

The other alternative is to go to solidsignal.com and try and find an HR20, or H20 receiver. Those both have integrated over the air tuners in them. DirecTV will not be featuring satellite rebroadcasts of the digital subchannels so you might as well get your over the air receiver. You're missing alot without it.

bluegras

12-03-08, 10:39 AM

on our dbstalk forum they just annouced that wttw just started broadcasting full time in HD.

bluegras

12-03-08, 10:41 AM

could hvs10trk please contact me i need some help on something

swiat

12-03-08, 12:52 PM

on our dbstalk forum they just annouced that wttw just started broadcasting full time in HD.

Ok, I see what you mean. WTTW is now in HD on DirecTV channel 11. They've been in HD on 11-1 over the air. D* finally started rebroadcasting the HD feed on satellite today.

sebenste

12-03-08, 03:21 PM

I read back about 10 pages here and saw the WLS testing posts. I am in Elburn, and got your help here awhile back in getting the monster Radio Shack antenna in my attic with the CM7777 preamp. I use Media Center, and have always gotten all the local channels perfectly. Now, WLS-DT has become unwatchable. I most often have no signal at all, but still the other channels are working fine. In reading here, it appears this will change??? Will February bring my WLS-DT back? Thanks!

Without viewing the tests, I can't say for sure. But let me put it this way: I have a VHF-only antenna in my attic, and oldie but goodie from Winegard in a one story townhome, and I got it easily in DeKalb. Chances are you lost WLS because your antenna can't pick up channels above 50 well. Maybe adjusting your antenna a bit could bring it back until they go live on channel 7 in February?

Fatawan

12-03-08, 04:43 PM

Without viewing the tests, I can't say for sure. But let me put it this way: I have a VHF-only antenna in my attic, and oldie but goodie from Winegard in a one story townhome, and I got it easily in DeKalb. Chances are you lost WLS because your antenna can't pick up channels above 50 well. Maybe adjusting your antenna a bit could bring it back until they go live on channel 7 in February?

Maybe I need to rerun Media Center setup and rescan the channels--perhaps I am way behind. Would it being on 50-something be different than earlier this year?

mogator88

12-03-08, 08:29 PM

I didnt make the change yet. We may be taking a different approach to this.

We were watching "The Doctors" today, and it looked fine. However, the commercials were very jerky.

Reminded me of the first time I played a DVD in a computer - a 600 mhz PIII with 64 mb of RAM running windows 98 with a 2x DVD reader. Actually, watching a movie through that computer was less jerky than watching the commercials today, or most of the programming I've tried watching over past months.

dicko2

12-03-08, 09:56 PM

Maybe I need to rerun Media Center setup and rescan the channels--perhaps I am way behind. Would it being on 50-something be different than earlier this year?

Rerunning scan wont help anything. It comes in fine here in Woodstock so it has to be something wrong with your antenna setup or with all the snow on the ground, maybe some reflection off the ground has picked up and put you in a signal null. Re-aiming your antenna might help.

BTW, do you get WGN? Are you aware of the channel problem with WGN and MCE?

Fatawan

12-03-08, 10:57 PM

BTW, do you get WGN? Are you aware of the channel problem with WGN and MCE?

I have two Media Center machines--the old one has no WGN-DT and I haven't looked into why, and the newer one, which I reran setup about 6 weeks ago, downloaded the entire guide perfectly, with all channels and subs, including WGN

dicko2

12-04-08, 10:04 AM

Microsoft downloads the wrong logical channel for WGN. TV Pack fixed the problem by changing guide providers.

goaliebob99

12-04-08, 07:31 PM

Can someone contact CBS2 and tell them that their audio encoders are going nutz. every min to min 1/2 there is studdering in the audio and its really geting annoying.

moxie1617

12-04-08, 10:24 PM

Go for it.
http://cbs2chicago.com/contact

hstewart

12-04-08, 10:25 PM

Trying to watch CSI. As well as the audio judder, I'm getting some video blocking and digital noise. Signal still shows strong, though and I'm only about 11 miles from the antenna.
-H

Fatawan

12-04-08, 10:48 PM

Microsoft downloads the wrong logical channel for WGN. TV Pack fixed the problem by changing guide providers.

Is TV Pack something I could update my older machine with?

affeking

12-04-08, 11:56 PM

Anyone else having problems with signal quality on WBBM-DT lately? Last night I had a good enough signal to play with no problems, but today I cannot get anything.

Is it possible that there was some damage to my antenna that would not have effected any of the other stations, but have completely cut CBS off? I realize it is UHF, and low signal strength, but again I've never had issues with it in the past (big antenna on my roof).

Jeff

FSugino

12-05-08, 12:15 AM

Trying to watch CSI. As well as the audio judder, I'm getting some video blocking and digital noise. Signal still shows strong, though and I'm only about 11 miles from the antenna.
-H

Just for a point of reference, CSI came through perfectly via Comcast.

goaliebob99

12-05-08, 09:15 AM

Isnt comcast fed via fiber to their pop?

FSugino

12-05-08, 10:19 AM

Isnt comcast fed via fiber to their pop?

I seem to recall reading that Comcast picks up the local feeds OTA. I think the details are buried somewhere in that huge message thread (or in the archives). I'll see if I can dig it up.

hvs10trk

12-05-08, 11:27 AM

I didnt make the change yet. We may be taking a different approach to this.

We have possibly identified the problems with the jittery shows and are working to have them corrected. Please bear with us while things are corrected.

viewmaster

12-05-08, 11:56 AM

Hello to all you fellow forum members. This is my first posting/reply. I live on the Northside of Chicago and also suffer from this Video Judder on OTA channels 26.1(WCIU) and 50.1(WPWR). It only occurs on some programs, and most commercials. I have a very good signal to my TV's. The problem occurs mainly on my Vizio HDTV. The other TV's are analog and get their signal thru my SDTV converters and are rarely affected with this Judder. I've contacted both broadcasters by phone but only got a reply from a WCIU engineer who was unaware of anyone else having trouble with this issue. It only occurs on the 720p broadcast mode. The analog channel signal does not have this issue. Would love to hear some more feedback from the WCIU engineer who's been trying to help resolve this Judder problem. :confused::confused::confused:

viewmaster

12-05-08, 12:00 PM

Looks like I posted 1/2 hour too late about the Judder issue!

sebenste

12-05-08, 08:42 PM

I seem to recall reading that Comcast picks up the local feeds OTA. I think the details are buried somewhere in that huge message thread (or in the archives). I'll see if I can dig it up.

All standard def is fiber. Unless things have changed, WBBM is fiber, but all the rest are OTA.

sebenste

12-05-08, 08:44 PM

Hello all,

I understand that some people may be having trouble with the end of analog TV/digital conversion. To help out, our friendly folks over at Fox have put together a video to help you ensure a nice, smooth transition.

http://www.hulu.com/watch/36608/talkshow-with-spike-feresten-cable-psa#s-p1-st-i1

Thanks, and I'm sure you'll thank me later for this instructive video. :p

P.S.: Sadly, there's some truth in there...

balkan

12-06-08, 12:56 AM

I know this is supposed to be for HD. But, I have a E55 recorder and the TVGOS is empty after 36 hours or so. "No listing" for any channel for any hour beyond 12/7 6am. It has happened several times recently. Used to be a week or 10 days ahead. Is this happening on the HD equipment? Is TVGOS dropping extended listings for analog already? [My DTVPals do not work - junk!] I just want to know if I am alone, I have not seen other posts about it. Is there a better thread to post this?

Trip in VA

12-06-08, 01:08 AM

While I don't have an answer to your question, I bet your DTV Pals actually do work but if you cannot receive WBBM-DT, you will not receive TVGOS data on them.

- Trip

Rammitinski

12-06-08, 02:00 AM

No, they don't. So far not one person has gotten the digital-to-analog TVGOS conversion feature to work on them.

There are outages going on with the analog TVGOS all over the country right now. No one knows for sure what's up. The most active discussions about this subject here are in the "Sony DHG-HDD500/250" thread in the HDTV Recorders forum, and the "TVGOS not updating" thread in the DVD Recorders forum.

Seeing that you have an EH55, I'd suggest heading on over to the DVD Recorder forum.

Trip in VA

12-06-08, 02:03 AM

I've heard reports of TVGOS data working on DTV Pals in other markets if I'm recalling correctly (big if), though I can't say I've heard great things about the overall quality of the tuner itself. I can't say I'd be surprised to learn that there are widespread issues with it.

I can't imagine the signal issues on WBBM-DT help the matter.

- Trip

Rammitinski

12-06-08, 02:06 AM

I've heard reports of TVGOS data working on DTV Pals in other markets if I'm recalling correctly (big if)..Where? I follow this thing as close as anyone, and I've never heard of it. Supposedly, the story is that they haven't inserted the "special signal" in there yet that the Pal is supposed to use (it's not the primary one, which is already being broadcast here and in some other cities).

I have tried it every which way, using a steady digital WBBM-DT signal, and it never worked for me. (Now that my listings are gone, I can't get WBBM-DT, though. I also stopped getting the clock on my Sony DVR from Chicago, but I at least got that back from WQRF-DT in Rockford, so I can set manual timers on it as long as I'm getting that. As you may or may not know, the Sony doesn't have manual clock setting, so without that us owners are pretty much SOL.)

Trip in VA

12-06-08, 02:24 AM

I read every local thread on here that deals with OTA, and there's a lot of those, so I can't remember where. I could be mistaken, of course.

Why would they feature separate listings for the DTV Pal? That seems utterly ridiculous when it's essentially the same data.

- Trip

Rammitinski

12-06-08, 03:49 AM

I don't know. It sounds pretty goofy and I've never really believed it myself, either. It's just more of the usual speculation that goes on around here. Somebody misinterprets something, or mentions something as an idea, and it just takes off and develops a life of it's own.

I seriously think a lot of these people with analog TVGOS devices are going to be supremely disappointed when the time comes. Myself, I've always been prepared for the worst. Especially after I paid full price a few months back for one of those lousy Pal's and found out that feature didn't work. That's when I kind of resigned myself to it.

If you truly read of the Pal successfully converting the signal somewhere for someone, I'd surely like to know where. I know that would be a very positive thing for a lot of people around this forum to hear.

Trip in VA

12-06-08, 03:52 AM

Alright. If I see it again somewhere I'll let you know. I don't really know where I'd start even if I did have the time to go digging for it.

- Trip

Rammitinski

12-06-08, 04:08 AM

No problem - I wouldn't expect or ask you to. Just in case you ever see it again, though.

balkan

12-06-08, 04:48 AM

Rammitinski,

Thanks for the info, just the answers I was looking for. I am in your area, Hillside, and ch 11 is where I thought the time and TVGOS was coming from as analog. WBBM is only doing the digital info as I understand it. Ch 11 is having horrible problems in their transition. Sometimes the image is squeezed or stretched during Chicago Tonight depending the source of those short clips. I am heading to the recorder section now.

ChrisS5

12-06-08, 06:02 AM

WBBM is only doing the digital info as I understand it.

For what it's worth, I have been receiving analog TVGOS from WBBM for years. My sony is still using it to get data.

Rammitinski

12-06-08, 06:30 AM

So does that mean you're still getting the data from them with no problems?

My Sony switched over to WBBM about a year ago, then it went back to WTTW a few months later.

dicko2

12-06-08, 11:03 AM

Is TV Pack something I could update my older machine with?

You just have to manually add WGN. I bet the guide shows it on channel 19.

TVpack changed the way MCE handles channels. they show as 9.1, 9.2, etc instead of 1091 or 1092. It also shows subchannels but it also brings a whole bunch of other problems you have to be prepared to live with. It wasnt very well tested, or at least the problems werent fixed if they were found.

It requires a fresh install of Vista to work. You'll have to google for it. Its OEM only and wasnt officially released to the public.

affeking

12-06-08, 11:49 AM

Well, CBS is back to working fine for me OTA as of this morning. I think it was out for about 2 days for me. Lets hope it stays working.

Anyone else have a similar experience? I'm still not sure if its my antenna going bad, or if it was related to the issues WBBT was having earlier. My signal was completely gone for a while there, so it seems more severe than what others were experiencing. Granted, I'm further out.

Jeff

tvmicrowave2002

12-06-08, 12:29 PM

videoguy60467

12-06-08, 12:51 PM

I am installing an attic antenna today in Elgin.
My compass heading is 105 degrees from the Hancock, and 107 from Sears Tower. Am I correct in assuming that both locations continue transmission after 2/17/09?

CruelInventions

12-06-08, 01:01 PM

Well, CBS is back to working fine for me OTA as of this morning. I think it was out for about 2 days for me. Lets hope it stays working.

Anyone else have a similar experience?

I get CBS-HD out here in Glen Ellyn via a rooftop antenna. Over the period of time you were experiencing your problem, the only thing I tuned into/recorded was Survivor on Thursday evening. No problems with reception for me.

sebenste

12-06-08, 03:01 PM

bigdnwi

12-06-08, 03:18 PM

WCIU 26.1 "Jerky Video" on certain tuners: As most of you know, we are using a stat mux pool on our digital channels. There is a softwarefirmware problem with our encoding system that affects certain tuners. We will be taking our digital channels off the air during the overnight hours next weekend to upgrade the stat mux system software and the 26.1 HD encoder firmware. This should resolve the issue on these select tuners. We will let you know when we've completed this upgrade and ask for your feedback. We have a test STB that displays this issue that we will monitor closely to make sure we have it fixed. Thank you for your comments and feedback.

-Kyle

Awesome news, it will be good to see of my favs like Frasier and The Stooges without having to watch the analog signal. Now if WPWR can get with it and fix the same problem although in all honesty there's nothing on that channel that I watch. Any word on the HD syndicated shows like The Insider since it's still in SD on WCIU?

Rammitinski

12-06-08, 03:23 PM

....it will be good to see of my favs like....The Stooges without having to watch the analog signal.Yeah, I had to resort to that a few times myself when it was jerking around.

tvropro

12-07-08, 08:10 AM

Awesome news, it will be good to see of my favs like Frasier and The Stooges without having to watch the analog signal.

I still say there is nothing like ANALOG! Ones and zero's just don't cut it :)
May have something to do with me liking tube audio amp sound and vinyl records. I'll take the snaps and pops vs studders or nothing any day :D

ChrisS5

12-07-08, 08:15 AM

So does that mean you're still getting the data from them with no problems?

My Sony switched over to WBBM about a year ago, then it went back to WTTW a few months later.

Yes. No problems....Just waiting to see what happens Feb. 19. (Whether it will change on it's own, or if I'll need to force it, or if I'll need a DTVPal.)

viewmaster

12-07-08, 11:56 AM

Rammitinski

12-07-08, 01:24 PM

I still say there is nothing like ANALOG! Ones and zero's just don't cut it :)
May have something to do with me liking tube audio amp sound and vinyl records. I'll take the snaps and pops vs studders or nothing any day :DYou won't get any argument from me there. I can't stand digital artifacts in video. I don't even watch any OTA subchannels unless I absolutely have to (for example, "Get Smart" - I'm not going to go out and pay over $125.00 for the boxed set of DVD's, that's for sure).

I don't care if "ION Life" shows all that T&A - I don't know how anybody can put up with the horrible quality of it.

tvropro

12-07-08, 10:19 PM

You won't get any argument from me there. I can't stand digital artifacts in video. I don't even watch any OTA subchannels unless I absolutely have to (for example, "Get Smart" - I'm not going to go out and pay over $125.00 for the boxed set of DVD's, that's for sure).

I don't care if "ION Life" shows all that T&A - I don't know how anybody can put up with the horrible quality of it.

The sad thing is digital over compression with artifacts is becoming commonplace even in most HD :( in fact Im watching Metv analog 23 more lately than 26.2. My 23 analog comes in perfect can't say the same for 48 though, get some snow in that.

HIPAR

12-07-08, 11:18 PM

Is there anyone left alive who remembers how good NTSC can look when they send all the picture data?

--- CHAS

Rammitinski

12-08-08, 02:11 AM

Absolutely. I've had some analog sources of yore that made people's jaws drop when they saw them.

And I've never even had c-band - that's supposed to be killer.

I can still remember when Direct's SD about 12 years ago looked a lot better than most of the downscaled SD on their HD channels does now. Even better than some of the HD, because it lacked any real noticable artifacting.

I flipped on analog 32 earlier tonight and was watching some Bears replays. I had to look twice at my tuner to make sure it was the analog version because it looked so good on my Pio plasma. Then I switched over quickly to the digital channel (which was showing it also in 4:3, upscaled SD), and I swear, it looked exactly the same.

Sure, if it would've been in HD, it would have been no comparison (apples to oranges anyway), but it just goes to show. If it would've been on a low-bit subchannel, the SD version would've unquestionably been preferable to most.

sebenste

12-08-08, 02:11 AM

Absolutely. I've had some analog sources of yore that made people's jaws drop when they saw them.

And I've never even had c-band - that's supposed to be killer.

You put WLS-TV's 7 on an excellent analog TV and a great antenna, and I bet you could fool a lot of people into thinking that TV is showing HD.
I remember watching cartoons growing up on WFLD in the 70s. Bad film projector and all...the engineering, probably on a shoestring budget, was done remarkably well. I still remember it.

Rammitinski

12-08-08, 02:20 AM

You put WLS-TV's 7 on an excellent analog TV and a great antenna, and I bet you could fool a lot of people into thinking that TV is showing HD.That's exactly how WFLD analog looked and was coming in for me tonight. If I'd have stretched it (using the "just" mode), probably 8 out of 10 people on first glance would've assumed it was HD.

Of course some credit probably also has to be given to my display and great Sony tuner.

viewmaster

12-08-08, 06:26 AM

I've always wondered what causes the extreme changes to the hue of people's skintones on my OTA reception. It only happens occasionally. I've noticed it all weekend on my TV's here in ChiTown. No matter how much I change the tint and/or the color or temperature settings it is still present. What's particularly annoying is some channels appear with severely green skintones and others with extremely reddish/purple. Is it some sort of atmospheric change or condition? I've also noticed changes occasionally after sunset. I do know that changes in the ionosphere affect radio propagation after sundown, but this current problem has been going on for three days now. Anyone have any answers as to what causes this? :confused: :confused: :confused:

tvropro

12-08-08, 01:29 PM

Absolutely. I've had some analog sources of yore that made people's jaws drop when they saw them.

And I've never even had c-band - that's supposed to be killer.

I have had C band since 1987. Analog was the bomb and still is in what's left. when I first saw true HD it didn't look much different then the C band analog SD I have become used to. C band HD digital if done right can blow the doors in on OTA since you are getting the first generation master. If you saw HBO's digital C band SD masters your jaw would drop.

sebenste

12-08-08, 02:18 PM

Rammitinski

12-08-08, 03:17 PM

If it's digital, ya got me...If it is, I'd say maybe check your cables first.

viewmaster

12-08-08, 04:14 PM

If it's analog, it means you are getting multipath, or overloading your signal. If it's digital, ya got me...

It also happens on digital, which baffles me. This is not something new, I've experienced it long before digital was around. When it occurs it happens on all my TV's which are connected to different antennas. Connections are all secure. I'm about 6 miles north of the Hancock and Sears tower and have a direct line of sight path for my antenna signal.

dattier

12-08-08, 06:47 PM

I'm about 6 miles north of the Hancock and Sears tower ...

If you're in Lakeview, you must be closer than that. Six miles north of Sears Tower would put you along Montrose Beach, and six miles north of the Hancock Center would put you in the lake east of Edgewater.

viewmaster

12-09-08, 09:29 AM

If you're in Lakeview, you must be closer than that.* Six miles north of Sears Tower would put you along Montrose Beach, and six miles north of the Hancock Center would put you in the lake east of Edgewater.

I'm a mile east of the lake at 4000 north. The far north edge of Lakeview.

dattier

12-09-08, 10:30 AM

I'm a mile east of the lake at 4000 north.You meant west, right?The far north edge of Lakeview.OK.

viewmaster

12-09-08, 11:10 AM

You meant west, right?OK.

Oops, ya I meant the other east. The one on the west side.

Rammitinski

12-09-08, 02:01 PM

Maybe he lives in a lighthouse.

dattier

12-09-08, 02:04 PM

Maybe he lives in a lighthouse.The throught crossed my mind, but there aren't any lighthouses in that area.

hvs10trk

12-09-08, 06:05 PM

Maybe he lives in a lighthouse.

That would be too cool.

longwong

12-09-08, 06:12 PM

Below is the text of a blanket response I received from WBBM, several weeks after I originally inquired about why their signal died out on me one evening. It has a phone number at the bottom which may or may not be useful to some.
____________________________________________________________ _____

WBBM-DT Channel 3 Reception Tips

WBBM-DT (channel 2 – 1) actually broadcasts on Channel 3, from the top of the John Hancock Building in Chicago. Our transmitting antenna is 1470 ft high and we broadcast our signal at the maximum power allowed to us by the FCC. Our normal service area extends to about 45 miles from downtown.

While all the other Chicago digital stations broadcast on UHF channels, we are the only one broadcasting on a Low VHF channel. This channel was assigned to us by the FCC and we cannot change it. Being on Channel 3 makes reception a little different and being aware of the differences involved will help greatly in successfully receiving WBBM-DT:

1. While the UHF digital stations may be received on a small indoor antenna, good All-Channel outside TV antenna is almost always needed to receive WBBM-DT successfully. There is no special, “high tech” or “HDTV” antenna that will miraculously fix Channel 3 digital reception. Amplifiers are not usually needed, and in fact often cause problems.

We discourage viewers from using the "new age", modern Amplified TV antennas. Although they work fine on UHF channels, they are NOT long enough to work effectively on the lower VHF (Ch 2 and Ch 3) frequencies. Their physical size is too small (for one of these antennas to work properly on Channel 3 it would have to be physically at least 10 Ft long). They are expensive and usually a waste of money.

We also discourage putting your antenna in the attic. This usually results in no or intermittent reception of Channel 3 digital. (See our Ch 2 reception tips sheet).

It’s not necessary to put up an expensive or special “HDTV” antenna – a conventional outside TV antenna is all that’s needed and always the best choice.

2. Viewers having problems receiving WBBM-DT (or any digital station) is often lost because a bad signal just results in a black screen – there’s no indication of what’s wrong. This is because digital signals either work perfectly or not at all. However, there is a very good way to know how well your antenna will work for WBBM-DT and to see any interference that may be preventing reception - The Channel 2 (analog) signal:

The most important concept to understand is that if your antenna is receiving a good, mostly noise-free, Channel 2 (analog) signal then you should also get a solid digital picture on Channel 3.

Check the Channel 2 (analog) signal – with a regular TV connected to the same antenna that you’re trying to use for digital reception. If it looks bad, then you must work on the antenna system to “clean-up” Ch 2 before you can expect good results with our digital Ch 3.

Our Channel 2 reception tips sheet describes what’s needed to get the best reception of (analog) WBBM. The concepts and ideas there apply equally to receiving Ch 3 digital signals. Remember to observe a regular analog TV, connected to the same antenna that you’re trying to use for digital reception, to see if you’re improving your antenna or reducing interference. When the antenna system has been fixed, you may have to do a new search on your digital receiver so that it finds WBBM-DT. You might also try directly keying in Channel 3-1 to your receiver.

WBBM-TV wants you to have the best reception possible. If you are still having reception problems, please call our reception help-line and leave us a message. We will get back to you as soon as possible and do our best to help you.

Antenna Hotline phone number (312) 202-2375.