Let me chime in... The 720P conversion did hurt the PQ on the bears game. IT was pritty noticable on my 64 inch in my living room. The D* NFL Network feed looked fantastic from D*, It was almost comparable to the NFL Master Feed. You could see the step down in pq when it came to wpwr. This was one reason why I was hoping that the guys over at FOX would of kept My Network at 1080I as WWE looks the same way and that's nativly filmed in 1080I.

I didnt check bitrates or anything like that, as I ended up watching the NFL master feed wich was running at 56 Mbps. Now that's what I call eye poping hd!

I'm jealous.

This is the first game I've caught this year and the picture quality is awful. I haven't seen hd look this bad before. It's very pixelated and to make matters worse the main action camera isn't even in focus most of the time. Is this an ongoing problem with them or just a rare occurence?

Tom

At least 29 states and markets therein participating...including Chicago!
For us, it will be during local newscasts for the big 4, and other times for the other stations.

http://www.engadgethd.com/2008/12/13/29-states-to-participate-in-analog-shutoff-test-next-week/

This is the first game I've caught this year and the picture quality is awful. I haven't seen hd look this bad before. It's very pixelated and to make matters worse the main action camera isn't even in focus most of the time. Is this an ongoing problem with them or just a rare occurence?

TomWell, it's an ongoing problem that anything with fast movement looks bad on WGN-DT.

Sports can be pretty bad, but a show like "Smallville" can be downright excruciating to watch.

For us, it will be during local newscasts for the big 4, and other times for the other stations.If only we knew at what times during which newscasts on the big four and at what other times on the other stations ...

Let me chime in... The 720P conversion did hurt the PQ on the bears game. IT was pritty noticable on my 64 inch in my living room. The D* NFL Network feed looked fantastic from D*, It was almost comparable to the NFL Master Feed. You could see the step down in pq when it came to wpwr. This was one reason why I was hoping that the guys over at FOX would of kept My Network at 1080I as WWE looks the same way and that's nativly filmed in 1080I.

I didnt check bitrates or anything like that, as I ended up watching the NFL master feed wich was running at 56 Mbps. Now that's what I call eye poping hd!

I am envious. How were you able to watch the NFL master feed running at 56Mbps?

WLS's tests on December 17 will be from 6:23 to 6:28 PM and 10:23 to 10:28 PM.  There was a spot announcing them during Saturday's Jeopardy! rerun.

If only we knew at what times during which newscasts on the big four and at what other times on the other stations ...

So do I. :D They don't mention times at the FCC for the most part, but Dattier found out about WLS.

This is the first game I've caught this year and the picture quality is awful. I haven't seen hd look this bad before. It's very pixelated and to make matters worse the main action camera isn't even in focus most of the time. Is this an ongoing problem with them or just a rare occurence?

Tom

Well, it's an ongoing problem that anything with fast movement looks bad on WGN-DT.

Sports can be pretty bad, but a show like "Smallville" can be downright excruciating to watch.

I recorded the game. It wasn't classically pixel-lated in the usual sense, for me. It was more like a videotape sort of visual error; a tearing or stuttering of the image on the screen. In other words, the picture was sort of jumpy. very odd.

I'm glad I'm not the only one who noticed this. Our Tivo HD also doesn't seem to like either WPWR-DT (50.1) or WCPX-DT (38) for that matter. If either of those channels fails to show up, a view of the DVR Diagnostics screen will reveal 'No Program Lock', and a channel scan is the only way to bring them back. Probably a software glitch, and one that would annoy me more if I actually watched those stations on a regular basis...

I don't tune into 50.1 often, but I've never noticed a problem before (in terms of channel lock/no picture, that is.. I have experienced a couple of those crazy White Sox games last season where there was picture-freezing, multi-colored pixel "fireworks" effects. That still the strangest HD-programming related problem I've ever experienced). I guess I'll need to tune into the station before I program in any recordings for that station from now on. Luckily, that's not a common occurrence.

I am envious. How were you able to watch the NFL master feed running at 56Mbps?

You should see the 270mbps feed I have for Cubs/Sox/Bulls. It's enough to make a grown man cry!!!

Too bad we at home will never see HD of the quality you see at the source.

You should see the 270mbps feed I have for Cubs/Sox/Bulls. It's enough to make a grown man cry!!!

Are you trying to entice me to hunt you down?!? :p

Are you trying to entice me to hunt you down?!?He shouldn't be too hard to find, even without a station on the Green Line there any more.

Well, I do know what town he lives in. ;)

You should see the 270mbps feed I have for Cubs/Sox/Bulls. It's enough to make a grown man cry!!!

OK, I think I get it now. You are not receiving those broadcasts at home with some special hookup but rather what you can see in the studio or broadcast truck. I am afraid if I saw a 270mbps feed I would never again be satisfied with the poor man's HD at 19.2.

It don't make sense to have such high bit rates on the masters when after it's compressed to death by ALL providers it looks like crap anyway. They be better off to start with an overly compressed feed and pass it on in it's original state. I'm sure the bean counters would love that.

OK, I think I get it now. You are not receiving those broadcasts at home with some special hookup but rather what you can see in the studio or broadcast truck. I am afraid if I saw a 270mbps feed I would never again be satisfied with the poor man's HD at 19.2.

Yeah its pretty painful.

Well, I do know what town he lives in. ;)

Time for me to move. :D

I looked through the post, but still can't figure this out:

about two months ago, WGN 9-1 and abc 7-1 HD channels stopped working, they only display a black screen. 2, 5, 11, and 32 all have working HD subchannels. I saw someone mentioned they may have moved to 74 or 79 or something, does anyone know if this is true?

Comcast refused to help me and claims they don't support these subchannels, which I believe is utter BS and they don't know what they're talking about. The rep just wanted to sell me another box that I will probably have to pay 50 bucks to install.

Your help is appreciated! I need to watch hawks games in HD!

Mike

I looked through the post, but still can't figure this out:

about two months ago, WGN 9-1 and abc 7-1 HD channels stopped working, they only display a black screen. 2, 5, 11, and 32 all have working HD subchannels. I saw someone mentioned they may have moved to 74 or 79 or something, does anyone know if this is true?

Comcast refused to help me and claims they don't support these subchannels, which I believe is utter BS and they don't know what they're talking about. The rep just wanted to sell me another box that I will probably have to pay 50 bucks to install.

Your help is appreciated! I need to watch hawks games in HD!

Mike

I think I heard that Comcast remapped their channels. Do a rescan and see if you get it back.

Who else is having trouble with WBBM-DT over the air that is NOT related to signal strength? I have a very good signal but the screen goes black for a short while and pixelizes often. Many of us on the DirecTV board have bee seeing this and we believe it is the fault of WBBM since we are also seeing issues OTA. Does comcast get a fiber connection to WBBM-DT? I noticed this start to happen in October. I believe it is some sort of encoder or multiplexer issue but the engineer at WBBM is blaming antenna aim or DirecTV for the issues. Many of us think he's off on this one.

I looked through the post, but still can't figure this out:

about two months ago, WGN 9-1 and abc 7-1 HD channels stopped working, they only display a black screen. 2, 5, 11, and 32 all have working HD subchannels. I saw someone mentioned they may have moved to 74 or 79 or something, does anyone know if this is true?

Comcast refused to help me and claims they don't support these subchannels, which I believe is utter BS and they don't know what they're talking about. The rep just wanted to sell me another box that I will probably have to pay 50 bucks to install.

Your help is appreciated! I need to watch hawks games in HD!
WLS and WGN (main and subchannels) typically share a frequency (cable can handle double the bandwidth of broadcast.) In most areas, the PSIP is used so you should be able to just use 7-1, 9-1, etc... otherwise, you can try missing channels to see if your TV will tune (it's on 120 by me), or just do a new scan for all channels.

OK, I think I get it now. You are not receiving those broadcasts at home with some special hookup but rather what you can see in the studio or broadcast truck. I am afraid if I saw a 270mbps feed I would never again be satisfied with the poor man's HD at 19.2.Just one question: who's showing it with even that high of a bitrate around here?

Even WPWR-DT, which doesn't have any subchannels, was measured at 12. something the other day during the Bears' game. :(

Just one question: who's showing it with even that high of a bitrate around here?

Even WPWR-DT, which doesn't have any subchannels, was measured at 12. something the other day during the Bears' game. :(

I guess I assumed (maybe incorrectly) that WBBM-DT would be running at 19.2 since don't have any subchannels.

That one I'm not sure about. I do see plenty of artifacts even on there during FB games, though, on my 50" display.

That one I'm not sure about. I do see plenty of artifacts even on there during FB games, though, on my 50" display.

Unfortunately WBBM-DT is the only OTA channel I cannot pick up so I watch the feed via Comcast normally just for FB games. I have a Radio Shack VU-90 XR up in my attic (2 story house) and get all the other OTA channels locking in between 90 - 98 signal strength but no picture at all on 2.1 and the signal strength reads at 41. Hoping after the DTV switch next February I will also be able to get WBBM-DT. :)

Yes, we're all planning a big get-together bash for when that day finally comes. ;)

Who else is having trouble with WBBM-DT over the air that is NOT related to signal strength? I have a very good signal but the screen goes black for a short while and pixelizes often. Many of us on the DirecTV board have bee seeing this and we believe it is the fault of WBBM since we are also seeing issues OTA. Does comcast get a fiber connection to WBBM-DT? I noticed this start to happen in October. I believe it is some sort of encoder or multiplexer issue but the engineer at WBBM is blaming antenna aim or DirecTV for the issues. Many of us think he's off on this one.

They should have a fiber feed to Comcast as many stations do. Whether they choose to use that over OTA is up to them. Often times in the digital world you can have a slamming signal but the "quality" of the data may be bad thus a tuner would have a difficult time locking it. I haven't measured WBBM's signal before. I'll try to remember and see what it is.

I am envious. How were you able to watch the NFL master feed running at 56Mbps?

It was a special FTA find that you could only get with the proper equipment :D, It was DVB S2 8psk, 4:2:2 digital, on an unidentified Bird. Actually I was told to keep it secret, so that I will. But let it be known it was beautiful!

You should see the 270mbps feed I have for Cubs/Sox/Bulls. It's enough to make a grown man cry!!!

Now that I would love to see, hey can you put it on a bluray disk and mail it to me :D I bet that would be alot of disks just for a full game :D

OK, I think I get it now. You are not receiving those broadcasts at home with some special hookup but rather what you can see in the studio or broadcast truck. I am afraid if I saw a 270mbps feed I would never again be satisfied with the poor man's HD at 19.2.

Well, you can with the right satellite setup, while it wont get you everything, it will get you alot. With that said, add Cband into the mix and the possablites are almost endless.

Now that I would love to see, hey can you put it on a bluray disk and mail it to me :D I bet that would be alot of disks just for a full game :D



Well, you can with the right satellite setup, while it wont get you everything, it will get you alot. With that said, add Cband into the mix and the possablites are almost endless.

Do they even make Bluray burners?

Do they even make Bluray burners?

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16827106254

- Trip

...... Our Tivo HD also doesn't seem to like either WPWR-DT (50.1) or WCPX-DT (38) for that matter. If either of those channels fails to show up, a view of the DVR Diagnostics screen will reveal 'No Program Lock', and a channel scan is the only way to bring them back. Probably a software glitch...

maybe this is related to why my TR40 box occasionally comes up with 'WPWR - NEW SERVICE ADDED' (or a message to that effect) after doing its normal update scan at 'power on', even tho i already had WPWR 50.1 in my channel list with no problems....this hasnt happened with any other channels, just WPWR....maybe they are changing the PID's data or something similar for whatever reason? and the box thinks its a new channel?

Who else is having trouble with WBBM-DT over the air that is NOT related to signal strength? I have a very good signal but the screen goes black for a short while and pixelizes often. Many of us on the DirecTV board have bee seeing this and we believe it is the fault of WBBM since we are also seeing issues OTA. Does comcast get a fiber connection to WBBM-DT? I noticed this start to happen in October. I believe it is some sort of encoder or multiplexer issue but the engineer at WBBM is blaming antenna aim or DirecTV for the issues. Many of us think he's off on this one.

Well, I am getting DREADFUL reception of WBBM-DT via DirecTV and NO reception of it at all via indoor antennas (either connected to the HD receiver going into my SONY Wega circea 2000 or to my newer flat-panels with HD tuners built in). Other stations' digital signals come in fine OTA via rabbit ears. A roof antenna is not a viable option for me--I am in Edgewater Glen (1200W/6100N), 4 blocks w. of the behemoth highrises along Sheridan that block any signal not transmitted from atop the Sears Tower. I had Tweeter come out a few years ago to test out a roof antenna and they had no luck with even the most sensitive one they sold. I am sick to death of DirecTV and WBBM blaming each other: I KNOW it's WBBM's fault because so many other people are having problems OTA. I get pixelation and every 30-60 seconds or so audio stuttering that sounds like either a robot having a nervous breakdown, a manic toddler playing with Auto-Tune in ProTools, or an episode of "Max Headroom." I do have basic digital cable via RCN (bundled with my broadband, for when storms or snow accumulation on the dish kill my satellite signal) but not HD cable--that would be overkill. I hate cable anyway--that's why I have satellite. Switching to Comcast is not an option--their customer service is abysmal, and has always been so.

Any suggestions other than gritting my teeth and putting up with this? I complained to WBBM but expect to get the same snotty pass-the-buck "buy a roof antenna, you cheapskate" response others here have gotten.

Caught a spot on WBBM about the test on the seventeenth: same start times as WLS (18:23 and 22:23), no mention of the lengths.

Do they even make Bluray burners?

saw a few at bestbuy ;)

There's a "Buffalo" external one on sale this week at Circuit city.

Sweet. I have to catch up on consumer technology. :(

Now that I would love to see, hey can you put it on a bluray disk and mail it to me :D I bet that would be alot of disks just for a full game :D



Well, you can with the right satellite setup, while it wont get you everything, it will get you alot. With that said, add Cband into the mix and the possablites are almost endless.

OK. I am not very familar with Cband and will need to do some research. Thanks and enjoy!

Yea, I have that bluray burner. Its ok.. I use it to watch movies mostly. As far as cband, feel free to go over to satelliteguys fta area to catch up on it. There are alot of good folks who are more than willing to help you out.

. I am sick to death of DirecTV and WBBM blaming each other: I KNOW it's WBBM's fault because so many other people are having problems OTA. I get pixelation and every 30-60 seconds or so audio stuttering that sounds like either a robot having a nervous breakdown, a manic toddler playing with Auto-Tune in ProTools, or an episode of "Max Headroom." I do have basic digital cable via RCN (bundled with my broadband, for when storms or snow accumulation on the dish kill my satellite signal) but not HD cable--that would be overkill. I hate cable anyway--that's why I have satellite. Switching to Comcast is not an option--their customer service is abysmal, and has always been so.

Any suggestions other than gritting my teeth and putting up with this? I complained to WBBM but expect to get the same snotty pass-the-buck "buy a roof antenna, you cheapskate" response others here have gotten.

My big problem with them is that I see the issue over satellite and OTA. I have an outdoor antenna with a preamp and I get good reception. I do have video issues that are not the fault of the low powered channel 3 digital signal. It's definitely related to what's in the signal, not the signal strength.
Yes, they are snotty and refuse to admit there is something more than their poor signal mandated by the FCC. Just because others are not knowledgeable about antennas or amplifiers doesn't mean I should get the same blowoff from the engineer guy there. He may be fed up with stupid questions, but at least look into the legitimate ones.

There's a "Buffalo" external one on sale this week at Circuit city. There still is a Circuit City? :rolleyes: (I know, I know, it's just that they've closed ALL of the ones I used to frequent.)

Well, I am getting DREADFUL reception of WBBM-DT via DirecTV and NO reception of it at all via indoor antennas (either connected to the HD receiver going into my SONY Wega circea 2000 or to my newer flat-panels with HD tuners built in). Other stations' digital signals come in fine OTA via rabbit ears. A roof antenna is not a viable option for me--I am in Edgewater Glen (1200W/6100N), 4 blocks w. of the behemoth highrises along Sheridan that block any signal not transmitted from atop the Sears Tower. I had Tweeter come out a few years ago to test out a roof antenna and they had no luck with even the most sensitive one they sold. I am sick to death of DirecTV and WBBM blaming each other: I KNOW it's WBBM's fault because so many other people are having problems OTA. I get pixelation and every 30-60 seconds or so audio stuttering that sounds like either a robot having a nervous breakdown, a manic toddler playing with Auto-Tune in ProTools, or an episode of "Max Headroom." I do have basic digital cable via RCN (bundled with my broadband, for when storms or snow accumulation on the dish kill my satellite signal) but not HD cable--that would be overkill. I hate cable anyway--that's why I have satellite. Switching to Comcast is not an option--their customer service is abysmal, and has always been so.

Any suggestions other than gritting my teeth and putting up with this? I complained to WBBM but expect to get the same snotty pass-the-buck "buy a roof antenna, you cheapskate" response others here have gotten.

If you or SWIAT ever talk to them again, ask them what their MER is (spelled out M-E-R). Should be 27 or higher.

There still is a Circuit City? :rolleyes: (I know, I know, it's just that they've closed ALL of the ones I used to frequent.)

They're closing the one up by me.

If you or SWIAT ever talk to them again, ask them what their MER is (spelled out M-E-R). Should be 27 or higher.

MER? ____ error rate? What word is missing and what is it?

Who else is having trouble with WBBM-DT over the air that is NOT related to signal strength? I have a very good signal but the screen goes black for a short while and pixelizes often.

I've posted a couple times about this issue in this thread in the past. I get OTA WBBM-DT with high 80's-90's signal strength (as indicated by my Tivo S3 HD) via a shared rooftop antenna. It's mainly during the colder months of the year that I experience similar audio/video dropouts. Rarely does it get so bad that the screen will "go black", but there are enough audio dropouts and video pixelation effects to make viewing content on this station a chore.

Sebenste suggested it might be nearby power (or telephone?) lines causing the problem, which I do have some of these running about 30ft away at roughly the same height as the antenna. Not sure how cold weather ties into all this though.

Sweet. I have to catch up on consumer technology. :(

Depending upon your needs/goals, there are software options which allow you to burn high-def blu-ray compatable files onto standard dvd and then play those standard dvd's on a blu-ray player in blu-ray/1080 quality. In other words, you don't necessarily have to have a blu-ray burner to create HD quality dvds.

I've posted a couple times about this issue in this thread in the past. I get OTA WBBM-DT with high 80's-90's signal strength (as indicated by my Tivo S3 HD) via a shared rooftop antenna. It's mainly during the colder months of the year that I experience similar audio/video dropouts. Rarely does it get so bad that the screen will "go black", but there are enough audio dropouts and video pixelation effects to make viewing content on this station a chore.

Sebenste suggested it might be nearby power (or telephone?) lines causing the problem, which I do have some of these running about 30ft away at roughly the same height as the antenna. Not sure how cold weather ties into all this though.

I wonder if it could be a furnace in your neighborhood kicking on/off that's glitching your receiver.

No, because the frequency and randomness of the interference doesn't really correspond to the possible range of on/off cycles of a furnace, even one on the fritz or one possessed by demonic forces. :D Interesting idea though!

MER? ____ error rate? What word is missing and what is it?

I forget what it spells out cause honestly we never use it in full form. Its in the same family as Bit Error Rate. It is a measure of the quality of the data going out. We have a nice analyzer that looks at ours when needed.

We have a nice analyzer that looks at ours when needed.

Any chance you might be able to drag that down to Virginia at some point? Got a station here that I think is riddled with errors at the source. :p

- Trip

Any chance you might be able to drag that down to Virginia at some point? Got a station here that I think is riddled with errors at the source. :p

- Trip
As long as the weather is better than here in Chicago. :D

I forget what it spells out cause honestly we never use it in full form. Its in the same family as Bit Error Rate. It is a measure of the quality of the data going out. We have a nice analyzer that looks at ours when needed.

Modulation Error Ratio. Basically Signal-to-noise ratio for a DTV signal. (Had to consult my DTV for dummies manual. :D )

hvs10trk ....

is it my TR40 converter or is there a problem with your THISTV feed on 26.4?

in the last few days i've frequently seen some very noticeable pixeling on THISTV.....mostly during fast action scenes but not always....your other channels and all my other ota channels never do this....i have a more than adequate antenna signal so i dont think its anything like that....i'm guessing the pixeling is coming from the THISTV dvb sat receiver?

As long as the weather is better than here in Chicago. :D

It certainly can't be any worse! :D

Seriously though, what sort of things would cause a lot of errors at transmission, or low SNR at the source? This station I'm thinking of has a history of lousy signal. They were at 43 kW at 44 miles from me and I usually got about 7 dB SNR, whereas as station at 17.9 kW at 53 miles maxed out my meter, as did a station at 55.46 kW at 79 miles. And it's not just me.

- Trip

It certainly can't be any worse! :D

Seriously though, what sort of things would cause a lot of errors at transmission, or low SNR at the source? This station I'm thinking of has a history of lousy signal. They were at 43 kW at 44 miles from me and I usually got about 7 dB SNR, whereas as station at 17.9 kW at 53 miles maxed out my meter, as did a station at 55.46 kW at 79 miles. And it's not just me.

- Trip

8VSB exciter that is not setup properly is the likely culprit.

hvs10trk ....

is it my TR40 converter or is there a problem with your THISTV feed on 26.4?

in the last few days i've frequently seen some very noticeable pixeling on THISTV.....mostly during fast action scenes but not always....your other channels and all my other ota channels never do this....i have a more than adequate antenna signal so i dont think its anything like that....i'm guessing the pixeling is coming from the THISTV dvb sat receiver?

Could be our national feed or could be our local encoder. Ill check it out.

Any word on the jerky video on 26.1. I haven't watched since Monday night, but it was still doing it then, but I read earlier that a software update was going to happen to possibly allieviate the video stutter. Thanks

Any word on the jerky video on 26.1. I haven't watched since Monday night, but it was still doing it then, but I read earlier that a software update was going to happen to possibly allieviate the video stutter. Thanks
Software update has not happened yet.

I've recently joined the ranks of those of you whom have had enough of paying for channels that I don't watch for prices I can no longer afford.

Now with that said does anyone have a line on what channel I might get to watch the Bears game this coming monday night? :rolleyes:

I've recently joined the ranks of those of you whom have had enough of paying for channels that I don't watch for prices I can no longer afford.

Now with that said does anyone have a line on what channel I might get to watch the Bears game this coming monday night? :rolleyes:

Since it's an ESPN game, it'll show up on ABC 7.

I've recently joined the ranks of those of you whom have had enough of paying for channels that I don't watch for prices I can no longer afford.

Now with that said does anyone have a line on what channel I might get to watch the Bears game this coming monday night? :rolleyes:
ESPN offers the games to the local ABC affiliate. The game will be carried on WLS-TV in the Chicago area as well as on the Green Bay and Milwaukee ABC affiliates.

Since it's an ESPN game, it'll show up on ABC 7.
Thanks FSugino. I thought that might be the case.

Does anyone know if someday we might see ESPN as one of the sub channels?

I would say chances are no, because providers pay big bucks for that channel.. I think the going rate is 3.50 per subscriber per month. Add that to the 1.5 billion people that get that channel as its in almost every basic channel package out there and that would equil to a heck of alot of money. I dont think ABC is looking to loose that revinue.

hvs10trk ....

is it my TR40 converter or is there a problem with your THISTV feed on 26.4?

in the last few days i've frequently seen some very noticeable pixeling on THISTV.....mostly during fast action scenes but not always....your other channels and all my other ota channels never do this....i have a more than adequate antenna signal so i dont think its anything like that....i'm guessing the pixeling is coming from the THISTV dvb sat receiver?That's just the way it is. You can't have both quantity and quality.

I would say chances are no, because providers pay big bucks for that channel.. I think the going rate is 3.50 per subscriber per month. Add that to the 1.5 billion people that get that channel as its in almost every basic channel package out there and that would equil to a heck of alot of money. I dont think ABC is looking to loose that revinue.
Looks like we just need to encourage more people to cut the umbilical cord.

Did anybody watch How I Met Your Mother on WBBM last night? Through Comcast (I recorded it on my DVR), there were some audio glitches near the end of the program. The audio would briefly cut out every 2-3 seconds. No video glitches. Somebody on Comcast from Indiana also posted about it in the Comcast forum.

I was just wondering if it was a WBBM, CBS, or Comcast problem.

If it was on WBBM, it's most likely the station. Everybody's been complaining about similar problems from that station with every provider in the past month.

They apparently still haven't quite gotten their act together with their new equipment and studio.

I've recently joined the ranks of those of you whom have had enough of paying for channels that I don't watch for prices I can no longer afford.
I recently joined that same boat. And although my wife isn't thrilled (the only thing cable she watched was soapnet anyway), I'm actually making it a challenge to see what other markets I might be able to pull in, i.e. Rockford, Milwaukee, Bloomington's fox and Champaign and others if the troposhpere is good.


Does anyone know if someday we might see ESPN as one of the sub channels?

I would say chances are no, because providers pay big bucks for that channel.. I think the going rate is 3.50 per subscriber per month. Add that to the 1.5 billion people that get that channel as its in almost every basic channel package out there and that would equil to a heck of alot of money. I dont think ABC is looking to loose that revinue.

Oh how I have always dreamed of this but would have to agree with Bob in that the revenue stream is too high. In addition, there isn't enough bandwith for what you really would like to see... ESPN HD OTA!

Not if they're going to add it as a sub to an existing HD channel.

Now, if they wanted to replace WPWR-DT - or all of the 480i PAX channels with it - I'd be all for it!

I would say chances are no, because providers pay big bucks for that channel.. I think the going rate is 3.50 per subscriber per month. Add that to the 1.5 billion people that get that channel as its in almost every basic channel package out there and that would equal to a heck of alot of money. I don't think ABC is looking to loose that revenue.

1.5 billion ?

missed the 6:23 PM test, caught the 10:23 PM test ...

WYIN and WJYS weren't in it at all; perhaps they tested at different times from the other stations.

WYIN tested earlier at 623.. WJYS I believe didn't.. If I remember right.

I'm really busy here, but a couple of little things:

1. WWME-LD rf 39 has gotten a construction permit to go from 1.8 kw to 4.4 kw. Don't expect much improvement, but give it a shot...

2. WOCK-CA 13's digital signal application on channel 4 has been changed to a displacement. Rockford's soon-to-be WREX-DT 13 is kicking them off and WOCK wants quick approval. This would be a digital flash-cut to channel 4.

3. The Green Bay Packers/Chicago Bears game on Monday evening, December 22
will be seen on WLS-DT 7.1, in 720p, and will be a simulcast of ESPN-HD.

Any other Tivo HD users getting three WPWR 50.1's in the guide?

Perhaps if we all contact them they will make an effort to fix it.

http://www.upnchicago.com/contact/index.shtml

I don't have a Tivo HD, but I do get two 50-1's on my 2 Mitsubishi LCDs, even after a rescan. I think it's been that way for at least a couple of months or so. No reason why that I can see.

Any other Tivo HD users getting three WPWR 50.1's in the guide?

Perhaps if we all contact them they will make an effort to fix it.

http://www.upnchicago.com/contact/index.shtml

I have a S3 Tivo with only one occurance of 50.1 in the guide. You may want to consider doing a channel scan using the "Delete previously scanned channels" option to clean up the channel listing.

I'm really busy here, but a couple of little things:

1. WWME-LD rf 39 has gotten a construction permit to go from 1.8 kw to 4.4 kw. Don't expect much improvement, but give it a shot...

2. WOCK-CA 13's digital signal application on channel 4 has been changed to a displacement. Rockford's soon-to-be WREX-DT 13 is kicking them off and WOCK wants quick approval. This would be a digital flash-cut to channel 4.

3. The Green Bay Packers/Chicago Bears game on Monday evening, December 22
will be seen on WLS-DT 7.1, in 720p, and will be a simulcast of ESPN-HD.

4.4 kW for WWME is probably not going to mean a higher overall signal level for most people, but it may be the difference in being able to receive it reliably each day.

WOCK analog is marginal at best in the NW burbs; per the FCC contour map I shouldn't even be able to receive it. 300 watts on channel 4 for the DT version is going to be little more than a myth. I don't even know why they bother.

Any other Tivo HD users getting three WPWR 50.1's in the guide?

Perhaps if we all contact them they will make an effort to fix it.

http://www.upnchicago.com/contact/index.shtml

As I indicated in a previous post, the Tivo HD doesn't seem to like WPWR-DT. It might be a software glitch.

4.4 kW for WWME is probably not going to mean a higher overall signal level for most people, but it may be the difference in being able to receive it reliably each day.

WOCK analog is marginal at best in the NW burbs; per the FCC contour map I shouldn't even be able to receive it. 300 watts on channel 4 for the DT version is going to be little more than a myth. I don't even know why they bother.

It seems that several Northern Illinois dtv stations have or will increase power by the transition.

I found some info here http://www.angelfire.com/wi/jrosin5765/tv/niltv.html

I am not sure if some of the revised power changes may already be in effect.

Can anyone give some info of which of these stations will have enough extra oomph to make a significant difference compared to today?

I have a S3 Tivo with only one occurance of 50.1 in the guide. You may want to consider doing a channel scan using the "Delete previously scanned channels" option to clean up the channel listing.

Tried this - the scan took 30-min! - it did not fix the triple 50.1.

As I indicated in a previous post, the Tivo HD doesn't seem to like WPWR-DT. It might be a software glitch.

Right - and if we all contact WPWR they might fix it!
http://www.upnchicago.com/contact/index.shtml

4.4 kW for WWME is probably not going to mean a higher overall signal level for most people, but it may be the difference in being able to receive it reliably each day.

WOCK analog is marginal at best in the NW burbs; per the FCC contour map I shouldn't even be able to receive it. 300 watts on channel 4 for the DT version is going to be little more than a myth. I don't even know why they bother.

Increasing our power and WQRF-TV (39) signing off on Feb 17th should help our signal get farther more reliably.

I'm really busy here, but a couple of little things:

1. WWME-LD rf 39 has gotten a construction permit to go from 1.8 kw to 4.4 kw. Don't expect much improvement, but give it a shot...

2. WOCK-CA 13's digital signal application on channel 4 has been changed to a displacement. Rockford's soon-to-be WREX-DT 13 is kicking them off and WOCK wants quick approval. This would be a digital flash-cut to channel 4.

3. The Green Bay Packers/Chicago Bears game on Monday evening, December 22
will be seen on WLS-DT 7.1, in 720p, and will be a simulcast of ESPN-HD.

Looking at the FCC site, WMEU has also made a change to their CP. It's still 15kw, but the signal is basically going all to the west, so places like Northwest Indiana and some of the farther southern suburbs probably won't get it at least according to the blue line. I'm guessing the 46 in South Bend might be the issue.

It seems that several Northern Illinois dtv stations have or will increase power by the transition.

I found some info here http://www.angelfire.com/wi/jrosin5765/tv/niltv.html

I am not sure if some of the revised power changes may already be in effect.

Can anyone give some info of which of these stations will have enough extra oomph to make a significant difference compared to today?My amp went out and I'm still getting SS readings in the high 90's from Chicago, out here in C.L. (about 41 miles out).

The only channel I really need enough power from is WBBM-DT (I would love for WYIN-DT to up theirs, though - maybe I could get it regularly with the amp then).

Increasing our power and WQRF-TV (39) signing off on Feb 17th should help our signal get farther more reliably.Yeah - no problem here - I get that channel around 70-something % as it is already. It should boom in without WQRF analog and the extra power.

Just wish you could take it off of 26.2 and give the bandwith back to the other subs though, so I can actually stand to watch them again. As it is now, I literally cannot watch them anymore, so they're pretty much worthless to me. That Chinese sub is so bad that I really feel sorry for those people that watch it, and will be losing the analog signal. It is completely unwatchable, and I'm not exaggerating one bit. Also, the high school basketball games on WWME are back to looking like they originally did. I went past "Support Your Local Sheriff" on THISTV last night, and it was nothing but a mess of blocks. Couldn't even watch it. Doesn't anybody care about that over there? What good are the subs if you can't watch them?

Tried this - the scan took 30-min! - it did not fix the triple 50.1.

That s**ks.:( I can't imagine why the S3 and HD would behave differently but apparently the HD really doesn't like WPWR.

However, after the new update my S3 also takes 30 mins to do a channel scan. It's like Tivo put the code back in from over a year ago.

Where is WQRF going after the Feb. 17 cutover?

Where is WQRF going after the Feb. 17 cutover?

Channel 42. Where it is right now, at 900,000 watts.

The dont ask period is now offically over :D So.. were about 58 day's from the DTV transition and according to the filings, WBBM Is suppost to be doing their testing and have their dtv12 build out in about 30 days. So this means were about 30 days from seeing WTTW go off the air on analoge 11. So anyone have any news about this?

Im actally surprised that I havent seen anything, on stations wanting to flash cut to digital early.

The dont ask period is now offically over :D So.. were about 58 day's from the DTV transition and according to the filings, WBBM Is suppost to be doing their testing and have their dtv12 build out in about 30 days. So this means were about 30 days from seeing WTTW go off the air on analoge 11. So anyone have any news about this?

Im actally surprised that I havent seen anything, on stations wanting to flash cut to digital early.

Actually, the FCC filing said testing in January. We're not there yet (despite what the weather is doing!). BTW, since the current analog and digital of WBBM is on a different tower/system, they won't have to shut down their 2 and 3 channels to do it. So, at some point in time, Chicago will have 3 WBBM signals on the air...

Actually, the FCC filing said testing in January. We're not there yet (despite what the weather is doing!). BTW, since the current analog and digital of WBBM is on a different tower/system, they won't have to shut down their 2 and 3 channels to do it. So, at some point in time, Chicago will have 3 WBBM signals on the air...

I like that! 11 days or so, untill then. I guess a good sign would be when 11 flashcuts to digital, wich I thought we would have allready seen a date on that through a fileing with the FCC, unless they some how can use the same antenna and transmitter for two channels, Wich I dont think is possible. It would be good to see three channels of wbbm on air. Hopefully with that kind of coverage everyone will get a peice of the action like the other stations have been able to provide! :) All beit about 5 years late (sence the sign on of DT3), But its better late than never to join the party.

I like that! 11 days or so, untill then. I guess a good sign would be when 11 flashcuts to digital, wich I thought we would have allready seen a date on that through a fileing with the FCC, unless they some how can use the same antenna and transmitter for two channels, Wich I dont think is possible.

WTTW doesn't have to flash cut to anything. Their digital is on 47, and they will stay on 47 after February 17. All they will do is shut down their analog.

Now, WTTW has a primary and a backup transmitter, according to the FCC. At some point, WBBM will have to get in there and convert the transmitters over to digital. So, one of those two transmitters will have to be converted to digital before February 17th, IF they intend to sign on 12 on February 17.
Since they explicitly have stated they'll be testing 12 in January from WTTW's equipment, it only makes sense that either WTTW's primary or backup transmitter will be or is being converted to digital now or very soon.

A WBBM spokesman (I don't know who he was, not a name I recognized) said that if you can get WTTW's analog signal, you should get WBBM-DT 12---and I buy that. And I assert it could be better than that: Out here, my WTTW gets digital hash from the FOX station in Madison, WI; Grand Rapids, MI, and probably from Lafayette, IN...all of which have digital full-power channel 11's. There's a channel 12 in Iowa City and in Angola, IN near the Indiana/Ohio border...but those are much further away than Grand Rapids and Madison, so there will be less tropo problems with it. I've never gotten a blink of digital on 12 from Angola, although WISN from Milwaukee slams it hard.

If any WBBM engineers watch this board, PLEASE let us help you by telling us when you will test your digital signal on 12. I hope you saw what we did with WLS...and it might help, in the long run, get more power for them. And maybe for you...

Yea your right about flashcutting, I meant shutting down their analoge antenna. They still have to notify the FCC when they shut it down dont they. Also, I cant wait, Im getting excited to finally be able to recive CBS where I havent been able to before!

probably a dumb question , but will WBBM DT -12 be transmitting from the Sears Tower ?? That'd be perfect for my OTA reception .. I wouldn't have a prayer if they remain on the Hancock ..

probably a dumb question , but will WBBM DT -12 be transmitting from the Sears Tower ?? That'd be perfect for my OTA reception .. I wouldn't have a prayer if they remain on the Hancock ..
Yes channel 12 will broadcast from the Sears Tower.

Hi guys,

This is my first post. I recently purchased 2 converter boxes to hook up to two analog TVs I have. I hooked up my downstairs TV to an rooftop antenna and the box and received all channels except 2.1 (CBS) and 9.1 (WGN). I found this strange because before installing the converter box, I could receive a very good signal from channel 9 and a snowy image from channel 2. After the installation of the converter box, both channels completely disappeared- I have tried autoscanning numerous times and nothing works. Even stranger is that when I hooked up the 2nd converter box to an upstairs TV and used a silver sensor indoor antenna with it, I could receive a very clear signal from 9.1 (but still no 2.1). Any ideas about this and what I could do? Do you guys think that maybe if I use an amplified indoor antenna (I was thinking Terk HDTVa) I could receive at least 9.1 downstairs? I have heard that 2.1 is very difficult to get in Chicago so I'm not to concerned about that. Thanks

-S

Hi--

You didn't state your location, but unless you are within a clear lline of sight to the Hancock tower, forget about 2.1 unitl February 17th. 9.1 should come in if you are getting 26.1 and/or 20.1. I would check all of your connections, you may have a bad cable end or other connection somewhere. The detail, if you are new to all of this is that 9.1 is actually transmitting on channel 19. 20.1 is on channel 21 and 26.1 is on channel 27. The digital signal is a strange bird, it is either there or not, there is no middle ground. WGN (9.1) is one of the strongest signals in town, so if you aren't getting it, try directly tuning to 19.1, if that doesn't work, check your cable ends and any splitters in your line. Jiggle them and check for any loose fittings or ends that need to be replaced.

Let the board know how things work out, every problem you may encounter has been dealt with here, and we are all more than happy to help you out.

Now, for something completely different: Did everyone notice how on the front page of AVS Forum they have a headline reading : 10 Great Looking Racks: 2008 Edition -- directly below a review of "The House Bunny" DVD. That should be on Leno's headlines tomorrow! :D


Hi guys,

This is my first post. I recently purchased 2 converter boxes to hook up to two analog TVs I have. I hooked up my downstairs TV to an rooftop antenna and the box and received all channels except 2.1 (CBS) and 9.1 (WGN). I found this strange because before installing the converter box, I could receive a very good signal from channel 9 and a snowy image from channel 2. After the installation of the converter box, both channels completely disappeared- I have tried autoscanning numerous times and nothing works. Even stranger is that when I hooked up the 2nd converter box to an upstairs TV and used a silver sensor indoor antenna with it, I could receive a very clear signal from 9.1 (but still no 2.1). Any ideas about this and what I could do? Do you guys think that maybe if I use an amplified indoor antenna (I was thinking Terk HDTVa) I could receive at least 9.1 downstairs? I have heard that 2.1 is very difficult to get in Chicago so I'm not to concerned about that. Thanks

-S

Hi guys,

This is my first post. I recently purchased 2 converter boxes to hook up to two analog TVs I have. I hooked up my downstairs TV to an rooftop antenna and the box and received all channels except 2.1 (CBS) and 9.1 (WGN). -S

Welcome to the digital side! Don't expect to get channel 2.1 until they switch over from channel 3 to 12, hopefully sometime next month. However, channel 9.1 (UHF 19) is usually one of the easiest to pick up. You didn't say where you are located, but if you are on the south side, you could be getting interference from WHOI, a powerful analog station on channel 19 in Peoria. It's also possible that there could be some type of strong multipath interference at your antenna location, although this seems unlikely if you get a clear picture on analog Channel 9. Not a good day for this today, but you might try rotating the antenna slightly to see if this reduces the interference. Things should get better when the analogs are turned off in February.

Hi--

You didn't state your location, but unless you are within a clear lline of sight to the Hancock tower, forget about 2.1 unitl February 17th. 9.1 should come in if you are getting 26.1 and/or 20.1. I would check all of your connections, you may have a bad cable end or other connection somewhere. The detail, if you are new to all of this is that 9.1 is actually transmitting on channel 19. 20.1 is on channel 21 and 26.1 is on channel 27. The digital signal is a strange bird, it is either there or not, there is no middle ground. WGN (9.1) is one of the strongest signals in town, so if you aren't getting it, try directly tuning to 19.1, if that doesn't work, check your cable ends and any splitters in your line. Jiggle them and check for any loose fittings or ends that need to be replaced.

Let the board know how things work out, every problem you may encounter has been dealt with here, and we are all more than happy to help you out.

Hey Tom,

I'm in Naperville, so I'm about 28-30 miles west of the closest broadcasting towers for all major networks. I went on antenna web and entered my information and I got this:

DTV Antenna
Type Call Sign Channel Network City, State Live
Date Compass
Heading Miles
From Frequency
Assignment
* yellow
uhf WMAQ-DT 5.1 NBC CHICAGO, IL 75° 28.6 29
* yellow
uhf WLS-DT 7.1 ABC CHICAGO, IL 75° 28.6 52
* yellow
uhf WJYS-DT 62.1 REL HAMMOND, IN 75° 28.6 36
* yellow
uhf WSNS-DT 44.1 TEL CHICAGO, IL 75° 28.6 45
* yellow
uhf WPWR-DT 50.1 MNT GARY, IN 75° 28.6 51
* yellow
uhf WFLD-DT 32.1 FOX CHICAGO, IL 75° 28.6 31
* yellow
uhf WXFT-DT 60.1 TFA AURORA, IL Feb 17, 2009 (post-transition) 75° 28.6 50
* yellow
uhf WJYS-DT 62.1 REL HAMMOND, IN Feb 17, 2009 (post-transition) 75° 28.6 36
* yellow
uhf WGBO-DT 66.1 UNI JOLIET, IL Feb 17, 2009 (post-transition) 73° 29.7 38
* yellow
uhf WSNS-DT 44.1 TEL CHICAGO, IL Feb 17, 2009 (post-transition) 75° 28.6 45
* yellow
uhf WFLD-DT 32.1 FOX CHICAGO, IL Feb 17, 2009 (post-transition) 75° 28.6 31
* yellow
uhf WCPX-DT 38.1 ION CHICAGO, IL Feb 17, 2009 (post-transition) 73° 29.0 43
* yellow
uhf WYCC-DT 20.1 PBS CHICAGO, IL 73° 29.7 21
* yellow
uhf WCIU-DT 26.1 IND CHICAGO, IL 75° 28.6 27
* yellow
uhf WCIU-DT 26.1 IND CHICAGO, IL Feb 17, 2009 (post-transition) 75° 28.6 27
* yellow
uhf WXFT-DT 60.1 TFA AURORA, IL 75° 28.6 59
* yellow
uhf WCPX-DT 38.1 ION CHICAGO, IL 75° 28.6 43
* yellow
uhf WTTW-DT 11.1 PBS CHICAGO, IL 75° 28.6 47
* yellow
uhf WGN-DT 9.1 CW CHICAGO, IL Feb 17, 2009 (post-transition) 75° 28.6 19
* yellow
uhf WGN-DT 9.1 CW CHICAGO, IL 75° 28.6 19
* green
vhf WBBM-DT 2.1 CBS CHICAGO, IL Feb 17, 2009 (post-transition) 75° 28.6 12
* lt green
uhf WWME-LD 39.1 IND CHICAGO, IL 75° 28.6 39
* red
vhf WBBM-DT 2.1 CBS CHICAGO, IL 73° 29.7 3
* red
vhf WLS-DT 7.1 ABC CHICAGO, IL Feb 17, 2009 (post-transition) 75° 28.6 7
* red
uhf WGBO-DT 66.1 UNI JOLIET, IL 73° 29.7 53
* blue
vhf WWTO-DT 10.1 TBN LASALLE, IL Feb 17, 2009 (post-transition) 234° 51.6 10
* violet
uhf WYIN-DT 56.1 PBS GARY, IN 128° 48.5 17

Almost all the major networks are int the yellow range including WGN. I know that my antenna is oriented in the correct direction yet am still not getting WGN. I followed your advice and checked all the cables and connections and still nothing. Do you have any other ideas? I also just noticed that WLS will be going back to channel 7 for their digital broadcast in February and that it is in the red range for me just like CBS currently is. Should I be worried about this? Thanks for the help.

-S

Welcome to the digital side! Don't expect to get channel 2.1 until they switch over from channel 3 to 12, hopefully sometime next month. However, channel 9.1 (UHF 19) is usually one of the easiest to pick up. You didn't say where you are located, but if you are on the south side, you could be getting interference from WHOI, a powerful analog station on channel 19 in Peoria. It's also possible that there could be some type of strong multipath interference at your antenna location, although this seems unlikely if you get a clear picture on analog Channel 9. Not a good day for this today, but you might try rotating the antenna slightly to see if this reduces the interference. Things should get better when the analogs are turned off in February.

Hi Veets,

Thanks for the help. As I said above, I'm in Naperville, so I'm west of Chicago. So I don't think WHOI is causing any interference. Any other ideas though? Thanks.

-S

I agree, you aren't getting interference from WHOI, but with WGN being one of the strongest stations, you should be getting 19.1 with ease. If all of your cables are in good shape, you may be getting some multi-path. Moving the antenna slightly is a good idea. I have a power rotor on my tower, when I installed it I set it to point diretcly between the Sears and Hancock towers. When I went in the house and used the rotor to make the final adjustments, the antenna ended up being pointed a bit north of the Hancock tower. It is mostly trial and error rather than an exact science.

I also agree that this is not the day to climb the pole and adjust the antenna; but if you do decide to do it, change the cable end at the antenna as long as you are up there, and by all means, please don't touch your tongue to the mast. A Christmas Story movie remake is NEVER a good thing!
Hey Tom,

Almost all the major networks are int the yellow range including WGN. I know that my antenna is oriented in the correct direction yet am still not getting WGN. I followed your advice and checked all the cables and connections and still nothing. Do you have any other ideas? I also just noticed that WLS will be going back to channel 7 for their digital broadcast in February and that it is in the red range for me just like CBS currently is. Should I be worried about this? Thanks for the help.



Thanks for the help. As I said above, I'm in Naperville, so I'm west of Chicago. So I don't think WHOI is causing any interference. Any other ideas though? Thanks.

-S

I've seem to have lost WYCC. Has anyone else noticed. I was flipping through channels the other day and saw that I couldn't lock in on UHF 21 VC 20.1

So I was making it a point to check this station often and keep coming up with the same results.

Anyone got any info?

I've seem to have lost WYCC. Has anyone else noticed. I was flipping through channels the other day and saw that I couldn't lock in on UHF 21 VC 20.1

So I was making it a point to check this station often and keep coming up with the same results.

Anyone got any info?

Deader than a doornail here. Also 20.1 analog weaker than usual. Something bad must have happened.

WIFR-DT on 41 (resolves to 23.1 and 23.2) doubled their power today:


http://www.daily-chronicle.com/articles/2008/12/22/news/local/doc494f3d4672144727695385.txt

Updated: Monday, December 22, 2008 1:12 AM CST

Viewers of WIFR Channel 23 digital television should receive a stronger signal with fewer dropouts starting today, according to a news release from the station. WIFR was recently granted permission from the Federal Communications Commission to increase the power of its transmitter from 50 kw to 100 kw.

The station will begin broadcasting the stronger signal at some point in the morning hours and should complete the process by the end of the day, the release said. The FCC has mandated all broadcast television stations shut down analog transmitters and broadcast only digital signals beginning Feb. 17, 2009.

WYCC is coming in normally for me, no problems at all. Signal strength at 89% on my Mythtv / PC digital tuner. (5th generation tuner)

Deader than a doornail here. Also 20.1 analog weaker than usual. Something bad must have happened.

Dead here also, D* still has them on air, they must be fiber fed to D*

Software update has not happened yet.

Software update happening overnight tonight. I am not personally installing the update so I dont know how much it will affect programming overnight.

WIFR-DT on 41 (resolves to 23.1 and 23.2) doubled their power today:


http://www.daily-chronicle.com/articles/2008/12/22/news/local/doc494f3d4672144727695385.txt

Updated: Monday, December 22, 2008 1:12 AM CST

Viewers of WIFR Channel 23 digital television should receive a stronger signal with fewer dropouts starting today, according to a news release from the station. WIFR was recently granted permission from the Federal Communications Commission to increase the power of its transmitter from 50 kw to 100 kw.

The station will begin broadcasting the stronger signal at some point in the morning hours and should complete the process by the end of the day, the release said. The FCC has mandated all broadcast television stations shut down analog transmitters and broadcast only digital signals beginning Feb. 17, 2009.

Tried to see if I could get them. No dice. WOCH analog 41 drowns them out. As far as I can tell they will stay on analog 41 after Feb. 2009.

Da Bears / ESPN in HD for free OTA makes me smile.

Tried to see if I could get them. No dice. WOCH analog 41 drowns them out.

Same here. I don't have a rotor which might male a difference. Plan on putting one on...this spring, no way I'm going up there anytime in the near future :eek:

Software update happening overnight tonight. I am not personally installing the update so I dont know how much it will affect programming overnight.

Did the software update get done last night? I don't see any difference today.

I've seem to have lost WYCC. Has anyone else noticed. I was flipping through channels the other day and saw that I couldn't lock in on UHF 21 VC 20.1

So I was making it a point to check this station often and keep coming up with the same results.

Anyone got any info?

It's coming in fine in Waukegan. I have lost channel 10.1 from Milwaukee though.

It's coming in fine in Waukegan. I have lost channel 10.1 from Milwaukee though.

I've always had a fair amount of trouble with 10.1. 36-1 is far more reliable for me. I believe 36-1's antenna is much higher up. What's the deal with 24-1, it seems much weaker then it was last winter.

Did the software update get done last night? I don't see any difference today.

Yes. Do you see random breakups on 26.1?

I've always had a fair amount of trouble with 10.1. 36-1 is far more reliable for me. I believe 36-1's antenna is much higher up. What's the deal with 24-1, it seems much weaker then it was last winter.

I haven't noticed any difference in 24-1. I sometimes have a problem with dropouts on 18-1, especially during a light rain or fog.

Yes. Do you see random breakups on 26.1?

After watching about 5 minutes of "Family Court", I did notice only one breakup. After 10 minutes there was another breakup. This is much less than before. This morning during "Half & Half", it still looked like a dubbed Japanese movie.

Anyone have a Pioneer PDP-5020?

I have issues with the operation of the OTA DTV tuner. When I select a digital TV station, the tuner (apparently) loses the signal and then "re-boots". The only way to re-gain the signal is to power cycle the TV.

I would estimate that I can maintain a channel lock for about 30-60 seconds. I have four other OTA digital tuners from different manufacturers and different vintages that work without a hitch, so I do not think there are issues with my antenna signal.

I realize that different generations of tuners can have varying performance from the same antenna signal. I have a pre-amp on the antenna and am also using a two-way splitter to route the signal to two devices in the room.

I found posts on the 5020 owners thread concerning similar issues with the digital tuner, but it did not appear there was either recognition or resolution of the problem.

Thanks for any input.

Mark

Da Bears / ESPN in HD for free OTA makes me smile.

Yes, thanks for always providing us with these ESPN Bears games, ABC/WLS. :)

I'd like to wring the neck of whichever idiots thought it was a good idea to feature the Bears in both Monday & Thursday night games during the coldest part of the football season. Not only is it bad for the players and fans to participate in, we viewers are forced to listen to the gratuitous jabs from the announcers every ten seconds complaining about how cold it is here, tedious perpetuation's of the 'Bear weather' mythology about how we beat teams on the ground when in reality most of our opponents are still superior not only on the ground, but can usually manage to put together a superior passing game even in the coldest of elements. :rolleyes:

But otherwise, yea.. free HD ESPN Bears! :p

The weather was simply a coincidence. For one thing, we're experiencing unprecedented cold so early. On neither of the two aforementioned dates was it ever supposed to be that cold.

I found posts on the 5020 owners thread concerning similar issues with the digital tuner, but it did not appear there was either recognition or resolution of the problem.

Thanks for any input.

MarkIf you have TVGOS, and it's set up, try this - disable it by resetting it using all "0"'s for the zipcode. There have been known issues with TVGOS and the Pio plasmas where something in the TVGOS data download coming in causes the panels to shut off by themselves.

I had to disable my TVGOS right after I bought mine, but I have it in my Sony DVR, so I'm lucky. The only time it occasionally shuts off now is when it gets too hot in the room, when the sun's beating into it in the summer.

....when in reality most of our opponents are still superior not only on the ground, but can usually manage to put together a superior passing game even in the coldest of elements. :rolleyes:Yeah, it sure did seem like "the fix" was on for this one. ;)

...For one thing, we're experiencing unprecedented cold so early. On neither of the two aforementioned dates was it ever supposed to be that cold.


True, but the fact remains that the odds of having severely cold weather is much higher in December than in Sept, Oct. or even November. Night games played in an outdoor stadium should never be scheduled in the month of December for cities like Chicago or Green Bay.

Probably the same applies to Buffalo, Pittsburg & Cleveland, though I'm not sure if those cities typically get quite as cold as the other two. Cold and snowy yes, for sure, but as cold? I don't know.

If you have TVGOS, and it's set up, try this - disable it by resetting it using all "0"'s for the zipcode. There have been known issues with TVGOS and the Pio plasmas where something in the TVGOS data download coming in causes the panels to shut off by themselves.

I had to disable my TVGOS right after I bought mine, but I have it in my Sony DVR, so I'm lucky. The only time it occasionally shuts off now is when it gets too hot in the room, when the sun's beating into it in the summer.

Thanks for the reply.

Unfortunately, there is no TVGOS on this model; I would have liked an easy fix.

What about the fact that I have a pre-amp? Of course, the Zenith DTT901 works fine with my current antenna setup.

Perhaps I should try removing the splitter and see what happens?

Mark

The weather was simply a coincidence. For one thing, we're experiencing unprecedented cold so early. On neither of the two aforementioned dates was it ever supposed to be that cold.

Not at all, Vader. it's just that we've been spoiled since the winters of the 1970s. This is how it used to be.

Not that I like it...well, OK as a meteorologist, I do, but...70s would be nice. :D

Heck, even if our winters were limited to going down to the 30's & 40's, I would be thrilled to death.

After watching about 5 minutes of "Family Court", I did notice only one breakup. After 10 minutes there was another breakup. This is much less than before. This morning during "Half & Half", it still looked like a dubbed Japanese movie.

Please PM me and describe to the best of your ability, what you see 26.1 doing.

It's coming in fine in Waukegan.

Well I checked again tonight and it's coming in fine now with about 77 signal strength. So I assume something happened and things are back to where they were.

Software update happening overnight tonight. I am not personally installing the update so I dont know how much it will affect programming overnight.

On my Samsung LN19A450, I don't notice any real difference. Watching a few shows like George Lopez and Half & Half were still jittery. And still, the video would occasionally fast-forward ahead, then freeze for about a half-second.

Somebody else mentioned M*A*S*H on WPWR had the same issue. I didn't see any problems this morning.

I agree totally with Ramm's rant.....
As much as I love the ME (s), I have pretty much stopped watching them because of the bad pictures. HVS has stated here that the Ch 39 feed (without subs) also has the same level of compression - and it looks bad too.
Is it too much for ME viewers to ask to have decent pictures when there are no subs? (Ch 39). Just because they're old shows, doesn't mean we'll watch bad pictures.
Don't forget, I can rent most of these old shows on Netflix - and do.
They usually look way better than ME does on my 37" tv, which is why I've mostly stopped watching Me and MeToo.
Sad because I very much like what you're doing programming-wise.
Just 2 cents worth from a viewer....

I agree totally with Ramm's rant.....
As much as I love the ME (s), I have pretty much stopped watching them because of the bad pictures. HVS has stated here that the Ch 39 feed (without subs) also has the same level of compression - and it looks bad too.
Is it too much for ME viewers to ask to have decent pictures when there are no subs? (Ch 39). Just because they're old shows, doesn't mean we'll watch bad pictures.
Don't forget, I can rent most of these old shows on Netflix - and do.
They usually look way better than ME does on my 37" tv, which is why I've mostly stopped watching Me and MeToo.
Sad because I very much like what you're doing programming-wise.
Just 2 cents worth from a viewer....

26.2 and 23.1 are the exact same quality as they are the same exact DTV stream. At this time it is not possible to seperate the two. Once analog dies in Feburary, we'll start to have more options.
(On a personal note, I do sympathize and agree with you.)

Hi everyone,

Quick question, I noticed that ABC its digital broadcast from 52 back to channel 7 in February. On antennaweb.org that ABC's broadcast on channel 7 is listed in a Red region for me. Do you think this will be a problem for me? CBS (digitally broadcasting on Channel 3) is currently in a red region for me and I can't receive it. Do you think Channel 7 will have the same problem for me come February? I'm in Naperville if that helps. Any input is appreciated.

-S

Hi everyone,

Quick question, I noticed that ABC its digital broadcast from 52 back to channel 7 in February. On antennaweb.org that ABC's broadcast on channel 7 is listed in a Red region for me. Do you think this will be a problem for me? CBS (digitally broadcasting on Channel 3) is currently in a red region for me and I can't receive it. Do you think Channel 7 will have the same problem for me come February? I'm in Naperville if that helps. Any input is appreciated.

-S

Channel 7 is much easier to receive than Channel 2 or 3 since the latter are VHF Low band. They need much larger antennas, and they are more prone to electrical interference. If you get decent Ch 7 analog now, you will probably be OK.

26.2 and 23.1 are the exact same quality as they are the same exact DTV stream. At this time it is not possible to seperate the two. Once analog dies in Feburary, we'll start to have more options.
(On a personal note, I do sympathize and agree with you.)

Hoping for the best in about two months.. ;) :D

Anyone who reads and posts here on Christmas day, must be some kind of loser.:rolleyes:

Happy Holidays Boys!

Anyone who reads and posts here on Christmas day, must be some kind of loser.:rolleyes:

Happy Holidays Boys!

Count me in!! :D Happy Holidays everyone!

Still hoping for some advice...

Anyone have a Pioneer PDP-5020?

I have issues with the operation of the OTA DTV tuner. When I select a digital TV station, the tuner (apparently) loses the signal and then "re-boots". The only way to re-gain the signal is to power cycle the TV.

I would estimate that I can maintain a channel lock for about 30-60 seconds. I have four other OTA digital tuners from different manufacturers and different vintages that work without a hitch, so I do not think there are issues with my antenna signal.

I realize that different generations of tuners can have varying performance from the same antenna signal. I have a pre-amp on the antenna and am also using a two-way splitter to route the signal to two devices in the room.

I found posts on the 5020 owners thread concerning similar issues with the digital tuner, but it did not appear there was either recognition or resolution of the problem.

Thanks for any input.

Mark

Count me in!! :D Happy Holidays everyone!

I'm not a loser. Just a geek. :D

Merry Christmas to all!

Still hoping for some advice...

Anyone have a Pioneer PDP-5020?

I have issues with the operation of the OTA DTV tuner. When I select a digital TV station, the tuner (apparently) loses the signal and then "re-boots". The only way to re-gain the signal is to power cycle the TV.

I would estimate that I can maintain a channel lock for about 30-60 seconds. I have four other OTA digital tuners from different manufacturers and different vintages that work without a hitch, so I do not think there are issues with my antenna signal.

I realize that different generations of tuners can have varying performance from the same antenna signal. I have a pre-amp on the antenna and am also using a two-way splitter to route the signal to two devices in the room.

I found posts on the 5020 owners thread concerning similar issues with the digital tuner, but it did not appear there was either recognition or resolution of the problem.

Thanks for any input.

Mark


Does it do it on every channel? I have a Samsung T150 tuner that years ago when ch32 was transmitting something wrong, it locked up and died whenever I tuned to ch32. I was kind of in a bad spot because it died and I had to reboot, so what station did it see after rebooting? Why the station that caused it to lock up, which it joyfully did once again. There was no way to tune to a different station until I removed the antenna, rebooted, then tuned off of ch32.

So my guess is if it does it only on one station, the station is transmitting a PSIP that the tuner doesnt like. If it does it on all stations, it sounds like the TV needs to go back for servicing.

Still hoping for some advice...


The only way to re-gain the signal is to power cycle the TV.



Mark

If it is any easier try disconnecting the antenna and then see if you can tune away from the channel that is causing the problem. I had to use this technique back when everyone would screw up their psip data at least once a month.

The FCC has just published a map of full-power digital signals and the
expected strengths with digital vs. analog in each market. Two stations
are winners, and big ones: WBBM-DT (even though the analog map, IMO, is
incorrect); and WJYS-DT 62.1. WYIN also gains significant ground north and
west from northwest Indiana.

All of the markets are here:

http://www.fcc.gov/dtv/markets/

And Chicago's, specifically, is here:

http://www.fcc.gov/dtv/markets/maps_report1/Chicago_IL.pdf

Naturally, your mileage may vary based on antenna, antenna height,
buildings, hills and other factors.

lookin good... thumbs up

Thanks for the maps. I'm looking forward to see what HD is like on WYIN, it looks like I should be able to get it.

WBBM-DT (even though the analog map, IMO, is incorrect)

Why do you think that? The dotted line is the analog contour, and all the green dots are places where the analog can't currently be seen. Based on what I've heard about the signal, the analog signal is smaller than the contour, and the map seems to back that up.

Or do you think there should be more green dots closer in? :p

I'm just curious.

- Trip

Thanks for the maps. I'm looking forward to see what HD is like on WYIN, it looks like I should be able to get it.Well, you'll have to wait until they actually have an HD channel.

Why do you think that? The dotted line is the analog contour, and all the green dots are places where the analog can't currently be seen. Based on what I've heard about the signal, the analog signal is smaller than the contour, and the map seems to back that up.

Or do you think there should be more green dots closer in? :p

I'm just curious.

- Trip

Trip,

The analog coverage is wildly inaccurate, due to noise. The signal gets out to about 40 miles, and not reliably, on analog. On digital, it's worse: even 10 miles out, it's spotty, and even with a big antenna, 35-40 miles is the limit.
And during bad weather, it's much less.

WBBM-DT 12 should go out 70 miles, my prediction, save due east, because they need to protect Angola, IN.

But the map compensates for that. The green dots are places where the new digital signal will be seen that the analog can't be seen. I think it actually does a really good job at showing the analog coverage contour is quite inaccurate.

- Trip

But the map compensates for that. The green dots are places where the new digital signal will be seen that the analog can't be seen. I think it actually does a really good job at showing the analog coverage contour is quite inaccurate.

- Trip

To make it more accurate:

Dots all over Kendall county...

Dots all over but the furtheast eastern parts of Kane county, and scattered in western DuPage county...

Dots over much more of Lake County, IL...

Much of Lake/Porter counties in NW Indiana would have dots...

And that's on a good day. 2/17/09 can't come soon enough for CBS Chicago fans.

How does broadcast power relate to frequency? For example, broadcasting with 200 kW on 44, 50 and 59 which channel is most likely to come in best?

Gotcha. So it needs more green dots.

Thanks. =)

- Trip

How does broadcast power relate to frequency? For example, broadcasting with 200 kW on 44, 50 and 59 which channel is most likely to come in best?

The lower the channel number, the more range they have.

- Trip

To make it more accurate:

Dots all over Kendall county...

Dots all over but the furtheast eastern parts of Kane county, and scattered in western DuPage county...

Dots over much more of Lake County, IL...

Much of Lake/Porter counties in NW Indiana would have dots...

And that's on a good day. 2/17/09 can't come soon enough for CBS Chicago fans.

How accurate are these maps in terms of broadcast power? A lot of them don't match the information on the first page of this thread or does the first page need updating? They have the new channel numbers (frequencies) matched but not the higher (or lower) broadcast power. For example...

1st Page Info:
WXFT-DT 200 kW on 59, requesting 230 kW and moving to 50

FCC Map Info:
WXFT-DT 172 kW on 50

-or-

1st Page Info:
WGN-TV 645 kW on 19, requesting 600 kW (reduction)

FCC Map Info:
WGN-TV 645 kW on 19

How accurate are these maps in terms of broadcast power? A lot of them don't match the information on the first page of this thread or does the first page need updating? They have the new channel numbers (frequencies) matched but not the higher (or lower) broadcast power. For example...

1st Page Info:
WXFT-DT 200 kW on 59, requesting 230 kW and moving to 50

FCC Map Info:
WXFT-DT 172 kW on 50

-or-

1st Page Info:
WGN-TV 645 kW on 19, requesting 600 kW (reduction)

FCC Map Info:
WGN-TV 645 kW on 19

Funny you should ask this. Since I had the day off and have been watching the weather, tonight I updated or overhauled 7 of the first 9 posts in this thread. More on that in a second. But first:

Yes, I actually have more up-to-date power/height info. These maps were obviously done before stations requested power-up power. WCIU's is also off, since they will be blowtorching with 600 kw after 2/17/09. But, the WXFT request has been recently OK'd, as has every power increase request so far for our market. However, WGN drops a tad only because they are going ~150' higher up the antenna, so the signal strength should be about even. They may even go out a tad farther when this happens, due to their increased height.

Anyway, in making sure everything has been updated in correct, I completely missed a new application for WWTO-DT in Ottawa to go 80 kilowatts on channel 10! Holy smokes (literally)! :D if that got approved, check out the range that would have:

http://www.fcc.gov/fcc-bin/FMTV-service-area?x=DT1270441.html

They would have to protect a channel 10 somewhere south (probably WILL-DT from Champaign-Urbana on 9), but they STILL would have a blowtorch signal. Here's what I think would happen, in order of liklihood:

1. The FCC laughs in their face and denies the application.
2. It gets approved. WBBM-DT and WLS-DT declare either competitive disadvantage, and/or they request a major power increase as well. If not, there will be some very mad engineers on the VHF DTV dial in 2009...

If WLS got 80 kw on channel 7, you could get them to Dixon and Oregon in western Ogle county, up to Milwaukee, and over to South Bend!

And, as I mentioned...

On the first page, I replaced my WBBM-DT essay with "how to get WLS/WBBM post-transition", since I don't think very many will be putting up antennas to get WBBM in the next 50 days (to get channel 3, anyway). If they do, I and others can explain why they aren't getting it.

Does it do it on every channel? I have a Samsung T150 tuner that years ago when ch32 was transmitting something wrong, it locked up and died whenever I tuned to ch32. I was kind of in a bad spot because it died and I had to reboot, so what station did it see after rebooting? Why the station that caused it to lock up, which it joyfully did once again. There was no way to tune to a different station until I removed the antenna, rebooted, then tuned off of ch32.

So my guess is if it does it only on one station, the station is transmitting a PSIP that the tuner doesnt like. If it does it on all stations, it sounds like the TV needs to go back for servicing.

If it is any easier try disconnecting the antenna and then see if you can tune away from the channel that is causing the problem. I had to use this technique back when everyone would screw up their psip data at least once a month.

Thanks for the replies. I am able to change channels before it re-starts by itself. I tried several channels (2.1, 5.1, 7.1, 11.1, 20.1, 32.1) and they all exhibit the same behavior.

Any other ideas?

Mark

Well, you'll have to wait until they actually have an HD channel.

Well, you ruined my day. :( I got Milwaukee PBS confused with WYIN. I was hoping that I had an alternative to WTTW.

The WWTO-DT app is completely within the FCC rules. According to the FCC, WPWR-DT has the largest coverage contour. 47CFR73.622(f)(5) states that stations may boost power as much as they want in order to attempt to match (but not exceed) the coverage of the largest station in the market.

WBBM-DT got their 8 kW through that rule, though they could probably go a bit higher except for interference concerns (still quite a bit smaller than WPWR-DT).

WLS-DT is limited by interference concerns with regard to WMVS-DT in Milwaukee. A directional antenna would let them boost power more.

- Trip

The WWTO-DT app is completely within the FCC rules. According to the FCC, WPWR-DT has the largest coverage contour. 47CFR73.622(f)(5) states that stations may boost power as much as they want in order to attempt to match (but not exceed) the coverage of the largest station in the market.

WBBM-DT got their 8 kW through that rule, though they could probably go a bit higher except for interference concerns (still quite a bit smaller than WPWR-DT).

WLS-DT is limited by interference concerns with regard to WMVS-DT in Milwaukee. A directional antenna would let them boost power more.

- Trip

I had heard that WPWR got that by accident, but now WFLD-DT got 1 mw after 2/2009 as well. WBBM tried to go higher, but the station in Angola has too much interference with them in northern Indiana. They, too, would have to go directional.

Funny you should ask this. Since I had the day off and have been watching the weather, tonight I updated or overhauled 7 of the first 9 posts in this thread. More on that in a second.

Speaking of weather, is there anything going on the past couple days (especially today) that would cause reception problems. The rising temperatures, fog, etc.? I'm getting massive breakups on 7.1 and 60.1 among several others. A channel scan (that always results in 57 channels like clockwork) results in only 40 today.

Speaking of weather, is there anything going on the past couple days (especially today) that would cause reception problems. The rising temperatures, fog, etc.? I'm getting massive breakups on 7.1 and 60.1 among several others. A channel scan (that always results in 57 channels like clockwork) results in only 40 today.

The high moisture count would definately do it.

The FCC has just published a map of full-power digital signals and the
expected strengths with digital vs. analog in each market. Two stations
are winners, and big ones: WBBM-DT (even though the analog map, IMO, is
incorrect); and WJYS-DT 62.1. WYIN also gains significant ground north and
west from northwest Indiana.

All of the markets are here:

http://www.fcc.gov/dtv/markets/

And Chicago's, specifically, is here:

http://www.fcc.gov/dtv/markets/maps_report1/Chicago_IL.pdf

Naturally, your mileage may vary based on antenna, antenna height,
buildings, hills and other factors.

I was looking at the corresponding Rockford charts, and it appears that those channels change as well. Living in Wayne (just south of Elgin) when I point my antenna in the way of Rockford, I can sometimes lock on Fox and ABC, with 1-2 bars (out of 10). Do the changes mean that theoretically I should be able to get those channels more reliably?

Thanks for the maps. I'm looking forward to see what HD is like on WYIN, it looks like I should be able to get it.

WYIN doesn't have any HD plans right now. You'll just get SD.

I had heard that WPWR got that by accident, but now WFLD-DT got 1 mw after 2/2009 as well. WBBM tried to go higher, but the station in Angola has too much interference with them in northern Indiana. They, too, would have to go directional.

Again, why are we concerned with stations 2 markets away? Angola??? This drives me nuts when we are crying over a station 2 markets away and letting co-channel interference on adjacent markets (i.e. channel 46 in Milwaukee, Chicago, and South Bend... channel 28 in South Bend and Milwaukee... channel 7 in Grand Rapids and Chicago... channel 19 in Grand Rapids and Chicago...) I could go on.

Plus we're talking channel 12 which is 200 some odd MHz, not a VHF lo 50 MHz channel. Tropospheric ducting will slightly and infrequently occur, hardly enough to be that big of a factor. Plus, it's attenuated over many miles of land. The signal will attenuate much more than if it were over water which could aid in the formation of an inversion layer.

Again, why are we concerned with stations 2 markets away? Angola??? This drives me nuts when we are crying over a station 2 markets away and letting co-channel interference on adjacent markets (i.e. channel 46 in Milwaukee, Chicago, and South Bend... channel 28 in South Bend and Milwaukee... channel 7 in Grand Rapids and Chicago... channel 19 in Grand Rapids and Chicago...) I could go on.

Plus we're talking channel 12 which is 200 some odd MHz, not a VHF lo 50 MHz channel. Tropospheric ducting will slightly and infrequently occur, hardly enough to be that big of a factor. Plus, it's attenuated over many miles of land. The signal will attenuate much more than if it were over water which could aid in the formation of an inversion layer.

Swiat,

The FCC has much stricter interference rules for digital broadcasters. Basically speaking, you can't interfere with another station's signal by more than .5% of their coverage. But that just came about recently...before that, it was .1%, and that's when WBBM tried to get even higher power. With WBBM WAY up on Sears tower, channel 12 will get out. At flea power, WLS with a very good attic antenna blows smoke 60 miles out. I forgot that WLS does has to protect WMVS-DT in Milwaukee on channel 8, unless they go directional. That hurts them, too. And since WMVS was there first, they get priority.

As for tropo ducting on VHF-HI, that's not true. Every year, I get very interesting catches on 7-13 through the spring-early fall. I've seen channel 7 from Evansville, IN stomp on WLS. Channel 8 from Grand Rapids booms in every spring and summer. 10 brings WMVS from Milwaukee, while 12 gets WISN, also from Milwaukee. 13 gets me Grand Rapids. So, it does happen.

BTW, WBBM-DT on 3 has a bit of a null to the northwest to protect channel 3 analog from Madison. Not for much longer...

I was looking at the corresponding Rockford charts, and it appears that those channels change as well. Living in Wayne (just south of Elgin) when I point my antenna in the way of Rockford, I can sometimes lock on Fox and ABC, with 1-2 bars (out of 10). Do the changes mean that theoretically I should be able to get those channels more reliably?

WTVO (ABC), yes. Analog channel 16 (WNDU-TV) from South Bend often times knocks out WTVO even out here in the spring and summer. With that gone, it will help. But WQRF (Fox) is on 42, and so is digital WNDU from South Bend. So, expect no improvements there. WQRF is at 900,000 watts, and WTVO is 170,000, both on a small hill. WREX (NBC) is at way high channel 54, but when they go back to channel 13 in February, you'll get 'em easily pointing the antenna northwest. WIFR-DT's coverage is wrong on those charts. While it is says 330 kw+, WIFR said back in November that it would have to purchase an all-new transmitter, and in so many words they said they couldn't do it (almost certainly because of money; the parent company is all but broke and in bankruptcy). It also shares channel space with analog 41 in Chicago. It was tough to get them out here until they boosted their power last week. Their signal strength in all directions, and especially to the east/southeast, will be somewhat less than shown.

It also shares channel space with analog 41 in Chicago. It was tough to get them out here until they boosted their power last week. Their signal strength oin all directions, and especially to the east/southeast, will be somewhat less than shown.

What exactly is analog 41? Will there be a digital channel in Feb or is it only analog?

Wow according to those maps, Station WXFT-TV • Analog Channel 60, DTV Channel 50 • Aurora, IL, I missed this one.. I wonder if theyse guys are doing the same as WBBM and buying out WPWR's Analoge transmitter.

What exactly is analog 41? Will there be a digital channel in Feb or is it only analog?

Only analog. They were going to move to channel 12, but they got bumped, obviously. WOCH-TV 41 doesn't have a companion digital channel yet, and nothing has been filed by the parent company that I have seen. They're still trying to get their channel 4 approved for WOCK, their low power sister analog station on channel 13.

Wow according to those maps, Station WXFT-TV • Analog Channel 60, DTV Channel 50 • Aurora, IL, I missed this one.. I wonder if theyse guys are doing the same as WBBM and buying out WPWR's Analoge transmitter.

Yes and no. They're not going to buy any transmitters, but they are going to share a combined antenna on Sears Tower.

Last night about 8-9PM both WCIU & WWME went out on DirecTV. (none of the other Chicago locals went out) WCIU DID come back up later, but WWME is STILL out as I type this. Is it out on both of it's OTA channels (analog 23 & digital 39) AND is it also out on 26.2?

(just curious, since obviously I can't see the actual Chicago OTA signals down here... ;) :D )

Last night about 8-9PM both WCIU & WWME went out on DirecTV. (none of the other Chicago locals went out) WCIU DID come back up later, but WWME is STILL out as I type this. Is it out on both of it's OTA channels (analog 23 & digital 39) AND is it also out on 26.2?

(just curious, since obviously I can't see the actual Chicago OTA signals down here [in Springfield] ...)

Just read your post, went to a TV connected to the roof antenna, and checked: 23 analog, 23.1, 26 analog, 26.1, 26.2, 26.3, 26.4, 26.6, and 48 analog were all coming in ... the two CA's were a little fuzzy but 26 analog and all the digitals were clear as bells.  I'm just under nine miles NNW of Sears Tower.

OK, thx much for checking - it's STILL out as I type this. :(
Maybe hvs10trk will be able to answer what the problem is.

What effect (if any) will shutting off the analog broadcasts in February have on the digital broadcasts? If a station current broadcasts analog on 60 and digital on 59 (WXFT) or analog on 32 and digital on 31 (WFLD) is there any kind of interference (since the channels are so close) that will go away when they shut the analog broadcasts off?

Last night about 8-9PM both WCIU & WWME went out on DirecTV. (none of the other Chicago locals went out) WCIU DID come back up later, but WWME is STILL out as I type this. Is it out on both of it's OTA channels (analog 23 & digital 39) AND is it also out on 26.2?

(just curious, since obviously I can't see the actual Chicago OTA signals down here... ;) :D )

We took a power hit to the building and unfortunately the backup power failed too. MeTV to Direct TV is currently not protected by our redundancy.

What effect (if any) will shutting off the analog broadcasts in February have on the digital broadcasts? If a station current broadcasts analog on 60 and digital on 59 (WXFT) or analog on 32 and digital on 31 (WFLD) is there any kind of interference (since the channels are so close) that will go away when they shut the analog broadcasts off?

Co-channels have to be locked to a 10mhz reference signal so they don't drift into each others space. (WCIU-TV 26 and WCIU-DT 27 for example)

Let's add another network in the mix!!!!!!!!!!!!

http://www.dot2network.com/national/aboutdtv


Wonder what frequency this is going on, they say they are avaliable in HD and are planning to launch on DTV in chicago. Dont know if this is going to be a major player or not. Intresting.

We took a power hit to the building and unfortunately the backup power failed too. MeTV to Direct TV is currently not protected by our redundancy.

Why not feed them the 26.2 signal for now, or have them pick it off that signal.

Let's add another network in the mix!!!!!!!!!!!!

http://www.dot2network.com/national/aboutdtv


Wonder what frequency this is going on, they say they are avaliable in HD and are planning to launch on DTV in chicago. Dont know if this is going to be a major player or not. Intresting.

Chicago has been on their list for a year plus. Given ME* from WCIU has the market cornered, I'm doubting if they'll find a home here.

Only analog. They were going to move to channel 12, but they got bumped, obviously. WOCH-TV 41 doesn't have a companion digital channel yet, and nothing has been filed by the parent company that I have seen. They're still trying to get their channel 4 approved for WOCK, their low power sister analog station on channel 13.

WOCH filed a while ago for 49

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=14024777#post14024777

WOCH filed a while ago for 49

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=14024777#post14024777

But...they also applied with the folks who run analog 6, who had channel 55 but were forced to displace. They wanted 49 as well.

The FCC will hold an auction to see who gets the channel. But that will take a while...and the bottom line is no matter how badly WOCH/WOCk want to go digital, the FCC has it in their hands. And progress is very slow.

They aren't going digital by February - that's all I know.

will that dot2network will be coming over to directv anytime soon and on a local channel in the chicagoland area on directv.we have been trying to get directv to add metoo to our directv and we are having no luck at all.

Why not feed them the 26.2 signal for now, or have them pick it off that signal.

Already shown them the door. They just have to open it. :rolleyes:

As far as I'm concerned, Dot2 is vaporware until they show otherwise. They keep pushing back their launch date again and again.

Now the excuse is that they want more affiliates before launching. If I owned a station group, I'd want to see a functioning network before signing up for it.

- Trip

metv is back up on directv i would like to let everyone know

From Chicagolandradioandmedia.com:

---
WTTW does not wish to lose any of its bunny-ears viewers, so to help them
stay connected, they will be holding this all-day, drop-in, open
house-style info session to help educate people and provide the needed
information about this big change. WTTW personalities, engineers & staff
members will answer questions, provide hands-on demonstrations on how to
hook up a converter box to a TV set, and help troubleshoot any technical
difficulties. Visitors can also take a tour of the WTTW studios and learn
more about the station & its upcoming programs.

This will all take place on Saturday, January 17th from 10:00am-4:00pm at
the WTTW Studios, 5400 N. St. Louis Ave., in Chicago.

The event is 100% FREE, but reservations are required, since the space is
limited. To reserve a space, call WTTW Member Services at 773-509-1111,
ext. 6 or click on the link: http://www.wttw.com/main.taf?p=47,1,4
---

They wanna make darned sure their viewers can get all their crummy-looking subchannels, I guess.

Anyway, thanks for that info. I do know a couple of places that would appreciate hearing about it.

They wanna make darned sure their viewers can get all their crummy-looking subchannels, I guess.

They want to make sure all of their DONORS can get it. ;)

Cynical today, I am. :D

... This will all take place on Saturday, January 17th from 10:00am-4:00pm at the WTTW Studios, 5400 N. St. Louis Ave., in Chicago...
I took a donor tour of the WTTW studios back in November. It was quite interesting and worthwhile.

I took a donor tour of the WTTW studios back in November. It was quite interesting and worthwhile.

It's a cool place. They have separate but adjacent control rooms for the analog and digital sides. Wonder what will become of the analog side once February 2007 hits.

Sorry if I sounded bad above. I've been in (and on) Chicago Tonight, and that studio is interesting. And they still have make-up artists in-house to make sure you look good when you go on air. For me, that is an incredibly difficult job to do. :D

wow, Chicago Tonight, huh? We have a celebrity in our midst. ;) I used to watch that program regularly, but haven't in the last few years, for no particular reason that I can think of. Maybe the loss of John Calloway effected me more than I care to admit.

They wanna make darned sure their viewers can get all their crummy-looking subchannels, I guess.



Lol. As a long time reader of your posts over the years, you get my vote if we ever hold elections for official AVS Board Curmudgeon. :p

metv is back up on directv i would like to let everyone know

How long was it off of Direct TV? Should have only been a couple of hours Friday late night.

How long was it off of Direct TV? Should have only been a couple of hours Friday late night.

It was off all day on Saturday. BTW what is causing the thin white vertical lines on the left side of the screen and also on the mid-right side of the screen? They sort of look like film scratches but they are present almost all of the time in the exact same place.

you know that dot 2 new network that should be coming on real soon i got message about it and here what they told me.

Our network will be available over the air as part of an existing network either ABC, NBC or CBS. As of today we have not secured a deal in Chicago but are working with both WLS and BBM for carriage. Our launch date is April 2009 hope to clear a deal in Chicago very soon. Thanks for the inquiry, Lee

Dot 2 was also supposed to launch on December 8. And "between July and October" before that. I'll believe it when I see it.

- Trip

you know that dot 2 new network that should be coming on real soon i got message about it and here what they told me.

Our network will be available over the air as part of an existing network either ABC, NBC or CBS. As of today we have not secured a deal in Chicago but are working with both WLS and BBM for carriage. Our launch date is April 2009 hope to clear a deal in Chicago very soon. Thanks for the inquiry, Lee

I hope it doesn't appear on CBS in Chicago - I don't want a subchannel pulling away from the HD football and basketball games :)

I believe CBS mandates that O&O affiliates cannot have subchannels so I doubt WBBM picks it up.

Lol. As a long time reader of your posts over the years, you get my vote if we ever hold elections for official AVS Board Curmudgeon. :pThank you. I will wear the badge proudly. :)

(Actually, I just hate to have something so good taken away from me like that. If it started out so bad, I wouldn't be complaining. Especially when it was free, and the stuff I'd have to pay for isn't even as good. ;))

They want to make sure all of their DONORS can get it. ;)

Cynical today, I am. :DGive me back the excellent PQ, and show some of that stuff they only show during the pledge drives all the rest of the time, and maybe they could get a donation out of me, too.

It was off all day on Saturday.

Yes, METV was still NOT back up when I went to bed Saturday night, but it was on when I got up today.

BTW what is causing the thin white vertical lines on the left side of the screen and also on the mid-right side of the screen? They sort of look like film scratches but they are present almost all of the time in the exact same place.

THANK YOU for bringing this up - I have seen the very SAME thing on my TV's as well!
(I really thought is was my imagination, since I ONLY see it on METV... :eek: )

retro-are you seeing this on the OTA &/or DirecTV feeds?

`

retro-are you seeing this on the OTA &/or DirecTV feeds?

Must be coming from Dir Wrecked, OTA analog and digital 23.1 & 26.2 are fine.

Must be coming from Dir Wrecked, OTA analog and digital 23.1 & 26.2 are fine.

I was going to say, 23 was fine when I left at 5am. Don't know what D*'s malfunction was. Their usually the first to call when its off the air.

To make it more accurate:

2/17/09 can't come soon enough for CBS Chicago fans.

Seconded! I can't wait for march madness in HD from CBS. Since I'm 45 miles out, I've never been able to get it so I'm excited.

Yes, METV was still NOT back up when I went to bed Saturday night, but it was on when I got up today.



THANK YOU for bringing this up - I have seen the very SAME thing on my TV's as well!
(I really thought is was my imagination, since I ONLY see it on METV... :eek: )

retro-are you seeing this on the OTA &/or DirecTV feeds?

I am seeing the white lines on 23-1 ota and on 23 analog via Directv and ota.

Give me back the excellent PQ, and show some of that stuff they only show during the pledge drives all the rest of the time, and maybe they could get a donation out of me, too.
While the PQ may not be as good as it once was, much of the 'regular' programing on WTTW is well worth supporting. That does not apply to most of the pledge programming. IMHO of course.

Swiat,

The FCC has much stricter interference rules for digital broadcasters. Basically speaking, you can't interfere with another station's signal by more than .5% of their coverage. But that just came about recently...before that, it was .1%, and that's when WBBM tried to get even higher power. With WBBM WAY up on Sears tower, channel 12 will get out. At flea power, WLS with a very good attic antenna blows smoke 60 miles out. I forgot that WLS does has to protect WMVS-DT in Milwaukee on channel 8, unless they go directional. That hurts them, too. And since WMVS was there first, they get priority.

As for tropo ducting on VHF-HI, that's not true. Every year, I get very interesting catches on 7-13 through the spring-early fall. I've seen channel 7 from Evansville, IN stomp on WLS. Channel 8 from Grand Rapids booms in every spring and summer. 10 brings WMVS from Milwaukee, while 12 gets WISN, also from Milwaukee. 13 gets me Grand Rapids. So, it does happen.

BTW, WBBM-DT on 3 has a bit of a null to the northwest to protect channel 3 analog from Madison. Not for much longer...


a few questions:
1) How high is your antenna and how high up are you ASL?

2) Regarding your .5% max interference point, What is being done to protect WDJT/WMEU/WHME, from one another? Directional antennas are a good start, but band enhancement in the spring-fall will at times trump that. What about WTMJ/WSJV? WOOD-DT looks like onmi-directional, so how is that protecting WLS-DT and vice-versa?

I believe you have valid technical specs, but the implementation of the rules seems far from consistent across the board.

I am seeing the white lines on 23-1 ota and on 23 analog via Directv and ota.

Must be something on your end, no problems here.

a few questions:
1) How high is your antenna and how high up are you ASL?

2) Regarding your .5% max interference point, What is being done to protect WDJT/WMEU/WHME, from one another? Directional antennas are a good start, but band enhancement in the spring-fall will at times trump that. What about WTMJ/WSJV? WOOD-DT looks like onmi-directional, so how is that protecting WLS-DT and vice-versa?

I believe you have valid technical specs, but the implementation of the rules seems far from consistent across the board.

My antenna is about 15' AGL. The FCC does not consider "band enhancements", so I agree, tropo will hurt any 46 in Chicago.
I frequently see digital hash from channel 7 in Grand Rapids out here in DeKalb
on WLS' analog signal.

Must be something on your end, no problems here.

Don't see it leaving the building or coming back with lines.

hvs10trk, I don't see the very thin white lines on 26-2 ota, but I do still see them on 23-1 ota and on analog 23 via Directv. They are there almost all the time. They look like emulsion scratches that we used to see on film shows now and then. They appear on the far left of the screen and on the mid center of the screen. They started showing up maybe about 3 weeks ago. Strange.

I know not where else to post this so here it goes.

I was just at Fry's electronics in Downers Grove looking at plasmas. Most of their tv's are fed looping video content (flowers and wildlife) produced by Sony or Panasonic via coax to the OTA f-connectors. I flipped through the channels on one of them and got VHF-low stations 3-2, and 4-1 or some such. None of the staff know how it is done. I did not get to look at their video server room, maybe next time.

How are they doing this?

found it - http://periocast.com/StoreCasterHD.html

I don't really want to know how much that costs...

There's probably still a very good reason why most bars I go to still have stretched 4:3 on their flat screens.

How long was it off of Direct TV? Should have only been a couple of hours Friday late night.

It was more like a couple of days.. I know on Saturday night, it wasn't up. there was a slate up that said no need to call we are aware of that the channel was down. Thats why I posed about 26.2, cause i saw that it was up and Metv on D* was still down.

It was more like a couple of days.. I know on Saturday night, it wasn't up. there was a slate up that said no need to call we are aware of that the channel was down. Thats why I posed about 26.2, cause i saw that it was up and Metv on D* was still down.

We made a call to D* to find out what the deal was.

What happened on the 4 PM newscast today with WLS-DT? They had Roland Burris on air, after one of their reporters scooped everyone by correctly saying he was going to be the Governor's appointment for Senator today. And then WLS got the double coup by actually getting Roland on an in-studio appearance with a grueling interview! But all they had was one wide shot---never a close-up---of the anchors and Roland, a shot where you never could really see his face. Apparently, other robotic cameras were trying to get a shot of him---one nearly bumped the live camera twice and got in the shot---and you could audibly hear people yelling and screaming from what was probably a loud headset with comm from the control room. My guess is that it was all a very last second arrangement, with somewhat holiday staffing, but in breaking news, you gotta be ready 24/365. Heck, the Sunday crew was ready when Ravi Bachwald and friends got introduced to a minivan crashing into the studio. Normally they interview people on the left side of the desk, so I guess a camera wasn't readily available.

Having said all of that, in the grand scheme of things, it was a minor gaffe...and kudos to WLS-DT for not only breaking the story, BUT getting our (maybe) new Senator on-air with a live, unscripted interview with some very tough (and justifiably so) questions thrown at him. Yet another day where we're not proud to be from Illinois...

Indeed. On behalf of the people of Illinois, I'd like to apologize for our state. To call it an embarrassment is an understatement. Now back to the forum. :D

Some of you may have heard of the DTV "night light" ruling from the FCC, where an analog station may stay on the air up to 30 days after analog shutdown to display information on why all the analog channels are now off the air, what to do about it, and to broadcast any emergency information such as weather and news that is life-threatening. The kicker? The night-light stations cannot interfere with any digital signals AT ALL. Almost all stations are ineligible and nearly half of the TV markets have none that can be used as well. In Chicago, only one station has been approved for "night light" service: WBBM-TV 2. And it's up to them if they want to stay on; it's not mandatory, though the FCC is "encouraging" eligible night-lighters to stay on. We'll see.

Some of you may have heard of the DTV "night light" ruling from the FCC, where an analog station may stay on the air up to 30 days after analog shutdown to display information on why all the analog channels are now off the air, what to do about it, and to broadcast any emergency information such as weather and news that is life-threatening. The kicker? The night-light stations cannot interfere with any digital signals AT ALL. Almost all stations are ineligible and nearly half of the TV markets have none that can be used as well. In Chicago, only one station has been approved for "night light" service: WBBM-TV 2. And it's up to them if they want to stay on; it's not mandatory, though the FCC is "encouraging" eligible night-lighters to stay on. We'll see.

In this economic environment, I'd think the savings on the electric bill will stop most stations from doing this.

Low-VHF stations have a pretty low power bill, so if WBBM, for instance, wanted to keep 2 on the air, the cost probably wouldn't be too prohibitive.

- Trip

So is it normal for WTTW 11 HD to look like complete ****? I know it is only 720p, but still... it looks like upscaled SD garbage, not high definition. Out of all the HD channels I am able to pick up from Chicago and Milwaukee, Chicago's PBS station is easily the worst looking.

Because only a couple things are in HD on channel 11. Most shows are still SD.

So is it normal for WTTW 11 HD to look like complete ****? I know it is only 720p, but still... it looks like upscaled SD garbage, not high definition. Out of all the HD channels I am able to pick up from Chicago and Milwaukee, Chicago's PBS station is easily the worst looking.

Thats why I choose to watch my PBS hd channels over on amc21 as WTTW belives in killing thier pq on hd channels.


Also, why no chicago rocks on WBBM this year? That was a dissapointment. I looked forward to that this year just to see that it isnt on. Dissapointment.

Happy New Year, Chicago AVS OTA Forum! May all your days in 2009 be high definition. Although we may be free from analog shortly---unfortunately we will definitely not be free from seeing more snow! At least it won't be on our TV's much longer. Cheers!

(Clink)

As of January 1, 2009 it appears that 11-1 will be a simulcast of 11. (11-2 is still there too.) It was nice while it lasted.

EDIT: Change appears to be effective Sunday January 4 2009.

There are hints of other future programming choices (but no details).

As of January 1, 2009 it appears that 11-1 will be a simulcast of 11. (11-2 is still there too.) It was nice while it lasted.

There are hints of other future programming choices (but no details).


How about this.. get rid of 11-2 and return the bandwidth back to 11-1. Thats an Idea!

How about this.. get rid of 11-2 and return the bandwidth back to 11-1. Thats an Idea!

Oh, so that's why wttw looks like ass. They've crammed 3 different channels on it on top of having the HD 11.1 channel. I wish they would ditch that stupid V-me channel.

As of January 1, 2009 it appears that 11-1 will be a simulcast of 11. (11-2 is still there too.)Are you sure that's the right date?  January 1, 2009, arrived almost a full day ago but 11.1 and 11.2 are not showing the same program right now.

11.1 has Nova while 11.2 has BBC World News.

He said 11.1 is a simulcast of 11, meaning 11.1 and 11 show the same thing. 11.2 is different; therefore, it would not show the same thing as 11.1. Why would you think 11.2 would be the same as 11.1?

This is the same for other subchannels. Almost always, the .1 of a channel is a digital simulcast (often the HD digital simulcast) of the base channel, while the .2, .3, etc. subchannels are different programming.

He said 11.1 is a simulcast of 11, meaning 11.1 and 11 show the same thing.11.2 has always been a simulcast of 11 analog, and a half-hour ago when I found 11.1 still to differ from 11.2, 11 analog and 11.2 had the same programming as one another, as they always do.11.2 is different;11.2 is different from 11.1 but not from 11.Why would you think 11.2 would be the same as 11.1?11.2 has always been the same as 11, so if 11.1 will also be the same as 11, then 11.2 and 11.1 will be the same as each other.

Have you actually watched WTTW OTA (analog or digital) in the last year and a half, or ever?

Almost always, the .1 of a channel is a digital simulcast (often the HD digital simulcast) of the base channel, while the .2, .3, etc. subchannels are different programming.As you admit, only almost always.  WTTW is one of the reasons that one must say "almost."  It is the only such exception in the Chicago DMA, but it is an exception all the same.

I do, indeed, live in WTTW's area. They had often done things differently, but when they went to HD on DirecTV, they supposedly were to start doing things the way most stations do things, that being making the .1 subchannel a digital simulcast of the base channel.

Vader, then I guess you have been watching WTTW and its subchannel offerings only via DirecTV and you were relying on assumptions about their OTA transmissions.

No assumptions. They didn't always show a different program on the .1 subchannel. In either case, they seem to have taken the same route other stations take with respect to the .1 subchannel.

They didn't always show a different program on the .1 subchannel.In fact, lately it seems to be getting even more frequent that they show the same program on 11.1 as that on 11 and 11.2.In either case, they seem to have taken the same route other stations take with respect to the .1 subchannel.They would seem to if what R. Johnson posted had come to be, but it hasn't yet.  Right now, as always, 11.2 has the same program as 11 (Charlie Rose, I think); but 11.1, as it very often does, has something else (Great Performances).

So what's the big issue then? Things change. :)

So what's the big issue then? Things change. :)This isn't even that much of a change.  When 11.1 shows a different program from 11 and 11.2, it's usually something that has already been or will soon be broadcast on 11 and 11.2, while what's on 11.2 and 11 already has been or soon will be aired on 11.1.  Making all three match would cause little loss of content if any.

Yes, things change, and I could live with this change ... when it comes to pass; so far it hasn't happened, and R Johnson's report of it as a fait accompli was premature.

Making all three match would be a waste of bandwidth.

See http://www.pbs.org/tvschedules/index.html?station=WTTW&zipcode=60601
for a very nice schedule.
It seems that the switch happens on Sunday Jan 4. Sorry about my error in saying it starts on Jan 1.

At WTTW's listing http://www.wttw.com/main.taf?erube_fh=wttw&wttw.submit.showDaySchedule=1&wttw.Channel=11.1&wttw.TimeOfDay=DAYTIME
try Monday Jan 5 --- all kids programming.

Some may prefer a direct SD version instead of downconverted HD.

Making all three match would be a waste of bandwidth.

No argument there. We've been saying the same thing about WYCC's 20.1 and 20.2.

Meanwhile, R Johnson has an update:

See http://www.pbs.org/tvschedules/index.html?station=WTTW&zipcode=60601
for a very nice schedule.
It seems that the switch happens on Sunday Jan 4. Sorry about my error in saying it starts on Jan 1.

At WTTW's listing http://www.wttw.com/main.taf?erube_fh=wttw&wttw.submit.showDaySchedule=1&wttw.Channel=11.1&wttw.TimeOfDay=DAYTIME
try Monday Jan 5 --- all kids programming.

There are some differences listed there until Monday at 5 AM, so we'll see then.

As I think about the changes at WTTW, I'm rather happy. I had long expected something along these lines to happen. I was initially disappointed to lose the separate programming of 11-1. But I had not really been watching much of it anymore. With a front projector, 11 and 11-2 were not watchable. I've little interest in 11-3 and none in 11-4 as I don't understand Spanish.

Under the new arrangement, the regular prime time PBS programs should have much improved quality (even it they're not really HD). The printed monthly members "Guide" will actually be useful again. Of course, this makes "pledge" periods inescapable.

It is very common for PBS stations to broadcast HD content from the network and the analog content on a subchannel.

The reason was that most PBS studios were not equipped to produce an HD program. So PBS tried to make available as much content on HD as possible as to "not waste" bandwith.

The in-house produced program's are now produced in HD, but for a lot of studios whom rely on pledges and grants can't make the upgrades.

Not every DMA has the funding the Chicago DMA has, and the four major networks are O&O, where capital is available. Go into any affiliate broadcaster and its all penny pinching. I'm not saying affiliates are cheap, I'm just saying there tends to be less capital available.

Under the new arrangement, the regular prime time PBS programs should have much improved quality (even it they're not really HD).

One thing that WTTW (maybe it's PBS, or both) need to do is stop presenting zoomed SD material and presenting it as "widescreen." A few weeks ago 11.1 had a show on the Argonne National Laboratory. The show was obviously a SD production zoomed to fill the screen. The problem was the overlay text which identified the people onscreen and gave background information was ALL CHOPPED OFF THE BOTTOM OF THE SCREEN! I got so frustrated trying to watch the show that I gave up and deleted it from my DVR after the first ten minutes.

PBS Kids channels seem like such a waste to me. Unless they're planning to can all the kids programming on the primary feed, there's no point in programming a subchannel with programming targeting the same audience during most of the day. The audience drops off after 8PM, so you essentially are programming for 6-8PM, since the main feed is all kids 6AM-6PM.

- Trip

PBS Kids channels seem like such a waste to me.
WTTW has NOT used a separate "Kids" channel. It appears that the primary HD sub-channel will now be used for children's programming 6:00am to 6:00pm Monday-Friday. Plus probably parts of Saturday and Sunday AM.

WTTW has NOT used a separate "Kids" channel. It appears that the primary HD sub-channel will now be used for children's programming 6:00am to 6:00pm Monday-Friday. Plus probably parts of Saturday and Sunday AM.

Didn't you just say that 11-2 would become a kids channel? Or did I misread?

- Trip

As of January 1, 2009 it appears that 11-1 will be a simulcast of 11. (11-2 is still there too.) It was nice while it lasted.

EDIT: Change appears to be effective Sunday January 4 2009.

There are hints of other future programming choices (but no details).

The January 2009 edition of The Guide (WTTW/WFMT's member magazine) has the following:

Finally, I want to highlight some changes you’ll see on television in January. Beginning this month,
you’ll find a simulcast of WTTW11 programming on our digital channels. If you have cable or satellite,
you can find WTTW HD on your on-screen menu. If you receive television free over-the-air with an
antenna, you can tune to channels 11-1 and 11-2 for the digital simulcast of WTTW11 programming. As
always, please visit wttw.com for complete schedules for all of our channels. And as we approach the
broadcast television digital transition in February 2009, stay tuned for more choices and programming
from WTTW.

Didn't you just say that 11-2 would become a kids channel? Or did I misread? - Trip
No, I didn't say that.
It has been a 4:3 SD simulcast of the analog channel.
Per the PBS site, it will continue that way.
Rather silly to have 11, 11-1 and 11-2 have the same programming, but....
I imagine that will change around Feb 17.

At WTTW's listing http://www.wttw.com/main.taf?erube_fh=wttw&wttw.submit.showDaySchedule=1&wttw.Channel=11.1&wttw.TimeOfDay=DAYTIME
try Monday Jan 5 --- all kids programming.

All kids programming?

?

- Trip

All kids programming?

?

- Trip
Yes indeed. That's what the NTSC station has been doing for ages.
What's your question?
If I may ask, why is a guy in VA interested in Chicago programing?

You said "all kids programming" then said you never said it. I'm confused as to what you mean.

I operate a website about digital television (see my signature) and follow all markets.

- Trip