You said "all kids programming" then said you never said it. I'm confused as to what you mean.

I operate a website about digital television (see my signature) and follow all markets. - Trip
It's my understanding that PBS offers a "Kids" channel to their stations with the intention that it be used as a full time digital sub-channel. See http://pbskids.org/ Based on that (which may be incorrect), I think of "Kids" as distinct from the normal children's programming that many PBS stations have run for years.

Following all TV markets must keep you busy!

It's my understanding that PBS offers a "Kids" channel to their stations with the intention that it be used as a full time digital sub-channel. See http://pbskids.org/ Based on that (which may be incorrect), I think of "Kids" as distinct from the normal children's programming that many PBS stations have run for years.

Following all TV markets must keep you busy!

They offered a kids channel at one time but have discontinued it. They now have "PBS Kids Sprout" which is a partnership with one of the cable companies, and thus is not available over the air anywhere. If a station wants a kids channel, they have to put it together themselves. I know of a few stations doing that, including WNET in New York. In fact, there's a list of them on my website. ;)

Yes it does. Imagine how frantic I've been with the shutting down of WeatherPlus! :D

- Trip

Trip: by "all kids’ programming" I think R Johnson meant that Monday, January 5's daytime schedule is all programming for children on both 11.1 and 11.2 (and 11 analog), just as it has been on 11.2 and 11 analog all along.

RJ: yes, the triplication certainly will go away 2009-02-18, when 11 analog goes dark and it becomes only a case of duplication (still silly if you ask me).

Ahh, I see. Makes sense. =)

- Trip

Trip: by "all kids’ programming" I think R Johnson meant that Monday, January 5's daytime schedule is all programming for children on both 11.1 and 11.2 (and 11 analog), just as it has been on 11.2 and 11 analog all along.

RJ: yes, the triplication certainly will go away 2009-02-18, when 11 analog goes dark and it becomes only a case of duplication (still silly if you ask me).
Thanks for the clarification!
Let's hope the duplication goes away soon after 2/17/09.

Does WMAQ comes in with a bunch of errors?

I was recording something off my cable via QAM a program on channel 5 but I was getting a bunch of errors so I thought it was the cable company. but then I watched the same exact program via OTA and I get the errors at the exact same places.

Does WMAQ comes in with a bunch of errors?

I was recording something off my cable via QAM a program on channel 5 but I was getting a bunch of errors so I thought it was the cable company. but then I watched the same exact program via OTA and I get the errors at the exact same places.

What kind of errors are you getting. I recorded the hockey game OTA on 5.1 and didn't see any errors, glitches, pixelating in the video at all.

Didn't see any errors on 5.1 out here.

BTW, on an unrelated note...

Saturday night, 1/3/2009, WQRF-TV analog 39 from Rockford signed off and WQRF-DT went to their 1.8 kw backup power/antenna for maintenance. This gave me the opportunity, for the first time, to see if I could lock WWME-LD at 1.8 kw from the northwest side of DeKalb.

I got between a 15% and 30% signal from my attic 4228 8-bay UHF antenna from ChannelMaster. Had it been outside, I think I would have had a shot to lock it, though probably not steadily.

Hi
I am definitely a newbie to this OTA stuff and need some recommendations for antenna.
I have a Sony Bravia HDTV and just canceled cable. I live on the second floor of a 4 story, with 8 story buildings on 2 sides and lake Michigan on the other.
I have looked at several of the posts here and at the AVS general site....but need someone to recommend something specific.
Thank you!!

Hi
I am definitely a newbie to this OTA stuff and need some recommendations for antenna.
I have a Sony Bravia HDTV and just canceled cable. I live on the second floor of a 4 story, with 8 story buildings on 2 sides and lake Michigan on the other.
I have looked at several of the posts here and at the AVS general site....but need someone to recommend something specific.
Thank you!!

Hi Nanette,

Welcome! If you are in Chicago, try a pair of "rabbit ears" with a loop antenna for UHF. Such as:

http://www.radioshack.com/product/index.jsp?productId=2062080

It's simple, but if you are within 10 miles of Sears/Hancock, adjusting that antenna may give you the results you want.

Thanks for the clarification!
Let's hope the duplication goes away soon after 2/17/09.

Totally agree with you too
lets lose those darn two same worthless channels

I was wondering if there are any suggestions for what kind of antenna to order for February.

I live in Wheeling and have a Terk HDTVi indoors on the second floor that gets a pretty good picture for everything (just a couple small artifacts every 5 minutes on a few channels), but CBS right now, but gets the CBS test channel. I'm looking to get something that will make my picture look immaculate and I'm planning to hook it up to my HTPC, which has 6 tuners instead of my TV's 1 that I'm testing from.

I was looking at the HDTVa or the SS-1000 or the SS-2000. Any thoughts?

I was wondering if there are any suggestions for what kind of antenna to order for February.

I live in Wheeling and have a Terk HDTVi indoors on the second floor that gets a pretty good picture for everything (just a couple small artifacts every 5 minutes on a few channels), but CBS right now, but gets the CBS test channel. I'm looking to get something that will make my picture look immaculate and I'm planning to hook it up to my HTPC, which has 6 tuners instead of my TV's 1 that I'm testing from.

I was looking at the HDTVa or the SS-1000 or the SS-2000. Any thoughts?

Why wait for February? If you're receiving digital signals now, an antenna is not going to improve the picture quality. an antenna will improve the signal strength and signal quality which could have an effect on the pq.

As long as you place an antenna indoors, there is no real way to tell if one will yield better results than another. I would suggest setting it outside on the roof or attic. If none of these are viable options (i.e. apartment/condo) then I would first try moving your current antenna around the room while trying to keep a clear line towards the sears/hancock.

If you are able to mount a roof or attic antenna, I have always heard excellent results with the channel master 4224 and 4228. Bow-tie antennas are the best at picking up UHF signals. the 4228 does well at VHF-HI too.

Try this tutorial. Its a helpful guide
www.hdtvprimer.com
http://www.hdtvprimer.com/ANTENNAS/basics.html
http://www.hdtvprimer.com/ANTENNAS/comparing.html

Nanette: it would be helpful to know whether that east view you have gives you a line of sight to the transmitters on Sears Tower and the Hancock Center, as might happen if you're on the north lakefront, or not, as would happen if you're on the south lakefront without a view to the north.

Hi Thanks!
I am 7300 north at the lake. My window near TV faces South. Didn't think it would be so hard to get an antenna that would bring in clear pics.
I really appreciate the help!
Nanette

Thanks Gilbert,
I have tried the rabbit ears to no avail..do you think it might be building interference or being too close to lake?
I really don't want to go back to cable, but do want clear digital and HD.
Thank you!
Nanette

Thanks Gilbert,
I have tried the rabbit ears to no avail..do you think it might be building interference or being too close to lake?
I really don't want to go back to cable, but do want clear digital and HD.
Thank you!
Nanette

Wow. Building interference, but how far are you away from Sears Tower? If the antenna can 'see" it, you should be getting a great signal. If not, can you put it close to a window?

Wow. Building interference, but how far are you away from Sears Tower? If the antenna can 'see" it, you should be getting a great signal. If not, can you put it close to a window?

Gilbert, Nanette's about ten miles from Sears Tower, apparently on the north side of one of the dead ends east of Sheridan Road near Loyola Park Beach, so if she goes to her front window and looks to the left, she sees the lake. (If she were in a rear unit of a building on the south side of its street, she wouldn't have a view of Lake Michigan as she said.)

But an attempt to sight Sears Tower or the Hancock Center would go through the taller building across from her on the south side of the street. So my guess is that she has no line of sight to either set of transmitters.

I could be wrong; maybe the taller buildings around her that she mentioned are east, west, and north (behind) and there's a better view to the south.

EDIT: Nanette didn't say that her window with the lake view was to the south, but that the window near her TV faces south, so maybe all my guesswork above is incorrect.

WGN has decided to send "2 and a half men" in 480i on 9-1. as a result my tivo just lost the full hd version of "my golly Moses, she's a muffin"

wtf

...dumb question...
Will full-power analog be off on 2/17/09 at 12am or 2/18/09 at 12am? I am getting conflicting answers from different websites.

...dumb question...
Will full-power analog be off on 2/17/09 at 12am or 2/18/09 at 12am? I am getting conflicting answers from different websites.

Not dumb at all. 2/17/09 at 11:59 PM, one minute before 2/18/09 at 12 AM.

Gilbert, Nanette's about ten miles from Sears Tower, apparently on the north side of one of the dead ends east of Sheridan Road near Loyola Park Beach, so if she goes to her front window and looks to the left, she sees the lake. (If she were in a rear unit of a building on the south side of its street, she wouldn't have a view of Lake Michigan as she said.)

But an attempt to sight Sears Tower or the Hancock Center would go through the taller building across from her on the south side of the street. So my guess is that she has no line of sight to either set of transmitters.

I could be wrong; maybe the taller buildings around her that she mentioned are east, west, and north (behind) and there's a better view to the south.

EDIT: Nanette didn't say that her window with the lake view was to the south, but that the window near her TV faces south, so maybe all my guesswork above is incorrect.

That's what I am trying to figure out. If her view is south, she should still be able to get *something* if the antenna is near the window. Nanette, did you do a channel scan? Punch in "31-1" on your tuner and see what you get.

I saw a license app for WWME-LD's boost to 4.4 kW. Has the power boost been implemented now?

- Trip

I saw a license app for WWME-LD's boost to 4.4 kW. Has the power boost been implemented now?

- Trip

Not yet.

If her view is south, she should still be able to get *something* if the antenna is near the window.I don't know about that.  If she's on the second floor on the south side of the street and her TV room's southern view is over the back yard or the garage and then into the eight-story building looming across the alley, she may not get much.

Not yet.

Then would you know why the covering app was filed yesterday?

http://fjallfoss.fcc.gov/cgi-bin/ws.exe/prod/cdbs/forms/prod/prefill_and_display.pl?Application_id=1286773&Service=LD&Form_id=347&Facility_id=168561

- Trip

Then would you know why the covering app was filed yesterday?

http://fjallfoss.fcc.gov/cgi-bin/ws.exe/prod/cdbs/forms/prod/prefill_and_display.pl?Application_id=1286773&Service=LD&Form_id=347&Facility_id=168561

- Trip

OK then maybe we are. I dont know, its not my week to have keys. :D

Haha, I'm not second-guessing you, I'm just trying to figure out what's going on here! =)

- Trip

Why wait for February? If you're receiving digital signals now, an antenna is not going to improve the picture quality. an antenna will improve the signal strength and signal quality which could have an effect on the pq.

I'm waiting until February cause I need CBS. Let me rephrase.

Which indoor antenna works the best once CBS switches?

I can get a good signal with a Terk HDTVi, but I'm looking to improve.

I saw a license app for WWME-LD's boost to 4.4 kW. Has the power boost been implemented now?

- Trip

Yes. :-)

whats going on with WMEU Channel 48 Metoo?i know that it is a class A station.when will it go to a digital station.and after that when could we finally see it be added on our directv system?

I'm waiting until February cause I need CBS. Let me rephrase.

Which indoor antenna works the best once CBS switches?

I can get a good signal with a Terk HDTVi, but I'm looking to improve.

If you can receive the VHF-HI analog stations well now, then you should have no problems getting WBBM after 2/17/09.

Try this thread on indoor antennas (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=1037779)

The HDTV technical forum can help, but indoor antennas are to inconsistent and so many factors can mess up your reception.

My thought, you just have to play with different ones, and placement in order to actually "know" which one works best for you specific situation.

95% of the time: Bigger is better and higher is better

Good Luck

whats going on with WMEU Channel 48 Metoo?i know that it is a class A station.when will it go to a digital station.and after that when could we finally see it be added on our directv system?

They are currently broadcast on a digital subchannel of WCIU 26.3

They are going to continue broadcasting analog after 2/17, I don't think it will be MeToo being broadcast though.

Any thoughts on what they will brodcast on UHF 48?

HVS are you out there maybe he can give us an update on whats going on with metoo

I was really disappointed with the quality of WLS last night. It dipped below 6mbps around 8-9PM (during Scrubs). Is there any hope / alternative?

I was really disappointed with the quality of WLS last night. It dipped below 6mbps around 8-9PM (during Scrubs). Is there any hope / alternative?

How do you measure the bitrate that you receive into your tuner? My wife was glued to scrubs last night and to be honest, I really didnt see "Quality" difference, but I was really paying attention.

I saw a license app for WWME-LD's boost to 4.4 kW. Has the power boost been implemented now?

Yes. :-)

It has?  Last night I still couldn't pull in 23.1 without the amplifier, even though I'm less than nine miles from Sears Tower and the analog signal on 39 from Rockford has shut down.

How do you measure the bitrate that you receive into your tuner? My wife was glued to scrubs last night and to be honest, I really didnt see "Quality" difference, but I was really paying attention.

basically I capped it and ran it through mpeg2repair.

The first episode was 7.95 Mbps. The second was even lower at 6.06 Mbps

Scrubs on a different station (right) Scrubs on WLS (left). Way oversharpened. grain is gone and replaced with artifacts. The colors are off. (I think WLS looks a bit better in the color department)
http://thumbnails12.imagebam.com/2298/fb292022976496.gif (http://www.imagebam.com/image/fb292022976496/) http://thumbnails7.imagebam.com/2298/970c7222976501.gif (http://www.imagebam.com/image/970c7222976501/)

The real difference can be seen during scene changes :

http://thumbnails4.imagebam.com/2298/13685d22979522.gif (http://www.imagebam.com/image/13685d22979522/) http://thumbnails12.imagebam.com/2298/28739d22979516.gif (http://www.imagebam.com/image/28739d22979516/)

They are currently broadcast on a digital subchannel of WCIU 26.3

They are going to continue broadcasting analog after 2/17, I don't think it will be MeToo being broadcast though.

Any thoughts on what they will brodcast on UHF 48?

???? WMEU will still be MeToo after Feb 17th.:confused:

HVS are you out there maybe he can give us an update on whats going on with metoo

No updates. It will be posted when things start to happen.

It has?* Last night I still couldn't pull in 23.1 without the amplifier, even though I'm less than nine miles from Sears Tower and the analog signal on 39 from Rockford has shut down.

Does somebody know something that I dont??

It has?* Last night I still couldn't pull in 23.1 without the amplifier, even though I'm less than nine miles from Sears Tower and the analog signal on 39 from Rockford has shut down.

It's pretty bad when Gilbert knows something about one of my stations that I didn't. :D Yes we are at 4.4kw at this time.

basically I capped it and ran it through mpeg2repair.




OMG. Sometimes I feel just dense. I never realized that editing software would have that much of a problem with the transport streams.

What tuner card/USB do you use?

I use the pinnacle pro stick and was having troubles viewing in WMP and wanted to edit some stuff out. But Vegas wouldn't take it, so I did a little searching and figured I needed a different editing program.
That's a neat program. I really need to stay on the up and up
Thanks for the info I feel a lot better knowing that :D

It's pretty bad when Gilbert knows something about one of my stations that I didn't. :D Yes we are at 4.4kw at this time.

And you forgot your chroma keys. You're getting old, HVS! :p :D

Try this thread on indoor antennas

The HDTV technical forum can help, but indoor antennas are to inconsistent and so many factors can mess up your reception.

I read the thread and picked up the top rated Clearstream 2 antenna at Best Buy today for $85. The picture is perfect indoors. I can even pick up channel 20, which I couldn't get with the HDTVi.

Thank you :)

WLS announced another test to be held at 6:23 PM CST Monday, January 12.  I'm guessing it will also run for five minutes like the others.

That's the kind of test where they put up the "this TV has failed" card on the analog feed while regular programming continues on the digital feed, not the kind where they test the digital transmission on their post-transition channel.

Speaking of the latter, what became of the expected test of channel 12 by WBBM-DT?

I'm not sure I fully understand the logic behind these "tests". If you're getting the digital channel, what would you care if they're turning off the analog one? And if you're watching the analog one, you probably either don't have a digital tuner, or you can't pick it up - and you already know that.

You're giving people way, way, WAY too much credit.

- Trip

If you're getting the digital channel, what would you care if they're turning off the analog one?

That's what I don't get. How come they advertise on the digital channels? If I'm already watching on digital, shouldn't they assume that I already know about it? Why not just run those ads on the analog stations.

Did anyone catch the program on 11.1 tonight where they went around from house to house showing people how to prepare for the digital transition? The acting was amusingly horrible and why broadcast it on the hd channel?

I'm not sure I fully understand the logic behind these "tests". If you're getting the digital channel, what would you care if they're turning off the analog one? And if you're watching the analog one, you probably either don't have a digital tuner, or you can't pick it up - and you already know that.

Because the general public is as dumb as a rock and has no idea what feeds their magical glowing boxes. Seriously, the FCC have been running around demoing the TV converter boxes, and people are complaining that they (the boxes) are too complicated to set up. Seriously, I kid you not! And you think these same people will be able to figure out on their own if they're watching an analog or digital signal? Please! They can barely manage to put the batteries in the remote the right way!

(Though I do have to laugh at the pragmatic answer usually given to the "too complicated" complaint, which boils down to "if you can't figure this out, hire ANY teenager to do it.")

So I see some value in repeatedly dropping a big dumb rock on the big dumb public letting them know their big dumb butt isn't going to get TV in a month. Don't worry, there will still be ninety bigzillion big dumb people who will claim to have never heard the message on Feb. 19th. (sigh)

:cool:Replaced my previous HDTV with a new model. Judder issues on 26.1(WCIU) and 50.1(WPWR) are gone! For those of you who are interested, here's a link to the new thread I posted: http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=1105974

I noticed a refrence to a "CBS Test Channel" in anticipation of their switch to digital 12 (saw it somewhere in this thread). I checked and I am not getting a digital signal at that frequency. I couldn't find any more details about the "test channel". Is there such a thing?

Because the general public is as dumb as a rock and has no idea what feeds their magical glowing boxes. Seriously, the FCC have been running around demoing the TV converter boxes, and people are complaining that they (the boxes) are too complicated to set up. Seriously, I kid you not! And you think these same people will be able to figure out on their own if they're watching an analog or digital signal? Please! They can barely manage to put the batteries in the remote the right way!

(Though I do have to laugh at the pragmatic answer usually given to the "too complicated" complaint, which boils down to "if you can't figure this out, hire ANY teenager to do it.")

So I see some value in repeatedly dropping a big dumb rock on the big dumb public letting them know their big dumb butt isn't going to get TV in a month. Don't worry, there will still be ninety bigzillion big dumb people who will claim to have never heard the message on Feb. 19th. (sigh)

Ding ding ding. Just ask the TV stations in Wilmington, NC. That market got WAY more publicity than the rest of the country will ever hope to have on their DTV transition, and it was still a rocky changeover. Ask any of the stations and their engineers who had to deal with it...

I noticed a refrence to a "CBS Test Channel" in anticipation of their switch to digital 12 (saw it somewhere in this thread). I checked and I am not getting a digital signal at that frequency. I couldn't find any more details about the "test channel". Is there such a thing?

WBBM will be moving to channel 12 at high power next month, and they indicated to the FCC that they will be testing it sometime this month. I have no idea when that will happen, but I am hoping WBBM engineers will give us a heads up so that we can help them see how far out and how strongly their new signal will go.

Because the general public is as dumb as a rock and has no idea what feeds their magical glowing boxes. Seriously, the FCC have been running around demoing the TV converter boxes, and people are complaining that they (the boxes) are too complicated to set up. Seriously, I kid you not! And you think these same people will be able to figure out on their own if they're watching an analog or digital signal? Please! They can barely manage to put the batteries in the remote the right way!

(Though I do have to laugh at the pragmatic answer usually given to the "too complicated" complaint, which boils down to "if you can't figure this out, hire ANY teenager to do it.")

So I see some value in repeatedly dropping a big dumb rock on the big dumb public letting them know their big dumb butt isn't going to get TV in a month. Don't worry, there will still be ninety bigzillion big dumb people who will claim to have never heard the message on Feb. 19th. (sigh)

I get voice mails every day!!

Did anyone see this BS yet?
http://www.swamppolitics.com/news/politics/blog/2009/01/digital_tv_shift_may_be_delaye.html


...great... great. more delays. Lets' just get this thing done! People have been warned about this change for years now. Besides, this coupon is coming out of money this country doesn't have anyhow.

WBBM will be moving to channel 12 at high power next month, and they indicated to the FCC that they will be testing it sometime this month.Now that's a worthwhile test! :)

That's what I don't get. How come they advertise on the digital channels?I asked the same question somewhere on AVSForum in the past and was ganged up on and pummeled electronically for it.

The mob's explanations were that announcements on digital channels of the changeover were for the benefit of analog-only people who happened to be watching a digital channel in such a location as someone else's home, a bar, the lounge at their place of employment, an appliance store or an electronics store or the window of such an emporium, et cætera.

I get voice mails every day!!I'm getting calls too, and I don't work in television. :eek:

Did anyone see this BS yet?


...great... great. more delays. Lets' just get this thing done! People have been warned about this change for years now. Besides, this coupon is coming out of money this country doesn't have anyhow.

What would be the impact of a delay on our market? Would CBS not start in Feb and ABC not get to drop down to channel 7?

I'm worried.

Have any of you guys in the Chicago area gotten TV Guide On Screen (TVGOS) to work recently?

I live in Naperville, and I have two Pioneer TVs (Elite PRO-1540 HD and Kuro PDP-6010FD) that both stopped displaying TVGOS listings within the last two months. Even though I have a cable feed (WideOpenWest - Digital Cable via CableCARD tuner), and this is an OTA thread, this problem appears to be pretty widespread and isn't tied to any specific hardware manufacturer or transmission mode.

Macrovision (owner of TVGOS) says the signal is being transmitted in the local area, and it must be a problem with the cable provider or TV manufacturer.

From the Macrovision website - http://www.macrovision.com/dtv/10061.htm - when you type in a local zip code for Naperville (60564), you get the following response...

Name: Wide Open West - Chicagoland - Chicago

Status: Known to be working

Description: We have confirmed with your cable provider that you should receive TV Guide/Guide Plus+ listings after the digital transition. If you are not receiving listings or if your listings discontinue, please contact your cable provider for more information.

When I contacted Macrovision by email, they said:

"Please contact your manufacture for support. They will work with you, collect the appropriate information, and escalate your case to us if need be. Thank you."

So I contacted Pioneer, who agreed to escalate the issue with Macrovision.

I also placed a call to WideOpenWest this morning, and their customer service rep called me back and left a message saying they have determined the problem is on Macrovision's end. ("Macrovision thought the problem in your area had been corrected recently, but we made them aware that some of our local customers are still having issues.")

This is one of the most frustrating troubleshooting exercises I've ever gone through, and I consider myself to be pretty tech savvy. So I'm virtually pulling my hair out at this point, with no clear visibility on what the underlying issue is. :(

Some of the things I've read online recently suggest that local TVGOS problems in the Chicago area MAY be related to WBBM as the host channel, so let me just end this sad and lengthy saga with a few quick questions:

1) Are any of you guys still experiencing this problem, even via OTA?

2) Is WBBM the new host channel for TVGOS in the Chicago area?

3) If so, are they currently transmitting the TVGOS signal, and is it being received on a reliable basis? :confused:

2) Is WBBM the new host channel for TVGOS in the Chicago area?


Yes


3) If so, are they currently transmitting the TVGOS signal, and is it being received on a reliable basis? :confused:


I assume so from others than have posted in other forums.
I cannot receive WBBM at my location (yet) but I do know they are the TVGOS host and are broadcasting.

PBS 11 is still transmitting the v8 and 9 analog guides. And 20 is still broadcasting the v7.

I was getting it from CBS analog for awhile, but it switched over back to 11 a few months ago. So I couldn't tell you for sure if CBS analog is sending it right now.

As far as digital, yeah, CBS is *supposed* to be sending it.

What would be the impact of a delay on our market? Would CBS not start in Feb and ABC not get to drop down to channel 7?

I'm worried.

Yes, but the broadcasters are saying no. I flatly disagree with Consumer's Union on this one, and most times i'm with them. You've had over a year. You don't need anywhere near, not infinitesimally CLOSE to that to figure out what is going on with the transition, and sorry, "I like analog, screw digital" does NOT fly with me.
Well, to make Obama happy, they're now saying "yes":

http://www.broadcastingcable.com/article/CA6627822.html?desc=topstory

Interesting. I'm in Franklin Park which is about 2 to 3 miles from O'Hare airport. I have a 12 foot boom, directional VHF/UHF antenna with an optional UHF added below that on the same pole. The Boom is on a rotor. Used a 300 Olm/75 Olm converter at the antenna so I could run Coaxial cable all the way. I receive about 2/3 of the channels listed here with a converter box. have tried several different ones so far and not much difference except with Zineth lost even more stations than magnavox.

Interesting. I'm in Franklin Park which is about 2 to 3 miles from O'Hare airport. I have a 12 foot boom, directional VHF/UHF antenna with an optional UHF added below that on the same pole. The Boom is on a rotor. Used a 300 Olm/75 Olm converter at the antenna so I could run Coaxial cable all the way. I receive about 2/3 of the channels listed here with a converter box. have tried several different ones so far and not much difference except with Zineth lost even more stations than magnavox.

What is your reference tuner?

So I capped SNL both through QAM and through OTA. Since the errors are exactly the same for both QAM and OTA, the errors must be coming from the source, no?

OTA on the left, QAM on the right
http://thumbnails8.imagebam.com/2333/eec8ca23321744.gif (http://www.imagebam.com/image/eec8ca23321744/)http://thumbnails6.imagebam.com/2333/eec8ca23321774.gif (http://www.imagebam.com/image/eec8ca23321774/)

http://thumbnails8.imagebam.com/2333/0cb05523321759.gif (http://www.imagebam.com/image/0cb05523321759/)http://thumbnails.imagebam.com/2333/0cb05523321800.gif (http://www.imagebam.com/image/0cb05523321800/)

I'm in Franklin Park....Really? Whereabouts? I grew up on Ernst St., between Belmont and Minneapolis - lived there for over 22 years.

Lots of trees in F.P. Could that be the problem?

So I capped SNL both through QAM and through OTA. Since the errors are exactly the same for both QAM and OTA, the errors must be coming from the source, no?

I happened to record SNL last night. Can you tell me what time those were to make my search a little easier? I can check and see if I can capture the same artifacts.

So I capped SNL both through QAM and through OTA. Since the errors are exactly the same for both QAM and OTA, the errors must be coming from the source, no?

I've been searching my file. I found the control tower scene, but searched through a little and couldn't find the other scene. In the control tower scene, I couldn't find any distortion above Neil Patrick Harris' head. I rewatched it a bunch of times. I tried to get some screen captures, but they were just black so I would need to find a freeware capture program to get them. Hitting Print Screen doesn't work with Directx I guess.

Comcast QAM in Wheeling, IL on WMAQDT in HD. Captured by BeyondTV with a HDHomerun tuner.

Yes, but the broadcasters are saying no. I flatly disagree with Consumer's Union on this one, and most times i'm with them. You've had over a year. You don't need anywhere near, not infinitesimally CLOSE to that to figure out what is going on with the transition, and sorry, "I like analog, screw digital" does NOT fly with me.
Well, to make Obama happy, they're now saying "yes":

http://www.broadcastingcable.com/article/CA6627822.html?desc=topstory

So let me get this right. Obama is emperor so it's his way or the highway? What about the public safety and WiFi winners of the 700 MHz auction? Are they and their products not important now? Isn't internet to rural areas a good thing? WiFi 700 will go a long way towards that. This unreasonable delay doesn't seem quite fair to me. We're weeks away and then they spring a delay? I'm going to make a WILD guess, but in return for complacency to the Obama admin, I bet the networks will get some kickback too... maybe some thing along the "must carry" laws, license renewal fees.. it could be anything.

So, what type of people are complaining about this upcoming deadline? Well, I looked at sebenste's link for a whole 3 seconds and found this "bright" one:
"As a person in Chicago (3 miles from Sears Tower) who will go from 16 analog stations to ZERO digital stations, I resent now to get TV I'll have to get cable. And what are these frequencies used for? Cell phones. So it's more cell phones for rich people, NO TV for poor people. Is Obama serious about moving the date back or is this a mere blind so he can say "Look I asked but THEY (Whoever THEY are) won't co-operate. I tried." We'll see if Obama is a leader or just another excuse making politician. They should move to digital market by markets. Start in NYC transition it. Then and ONLY when NYC is adequately changed over in a satisfactorly manner, switch LA, then Chicago, then Philadelphia then San Francisco etc etc all the way down the line. "

So let me get this right. Obama is emperor so it's his way or the highway? What about the public safety and WiFi winners of the 700 MHz auction? Are they and their products not important now? Isn't internet to rural areas a good thing? WiFi 700 will go a long way towards that. This unreasonable delay doesn't seem quite fair to me. We're weeks away and then they spring a delay? I'm going to make a WILD guess, but in return for complacency to the Obama admin, I bet the networks will get some kickback too... maybe some thing along the "must carry" laws, license renewal fees.. it could be anything.

So, what type of people are complaining about this upcoming deadline? Well, I looked at sebenste's link for a whole 3 seconds and found this "bright" one:
"As a person in Chicago (3 miles from Sears Tower) who will go from 16 analog stations to ZERO digital stations, I resent now to get TV I'll have to get cable. And what are these frequencies used for? Cell phones. So it's more cell phones for rich people, NO TV for poor people. Is Obama serious about moving the date back or is this a mere blind so he can say "Look I asked but THEY (Whoever THEY are) won't co-operate. I tried." We'll see if Obama is a leader or just another excuse making politician. They should move to digital market by markets. Start in NYC transition it. Then and ONLY when NYC is adequately changed over in a satisfactorly manner, switch LA, then Chicago, then Philadelphia then San Francisco etc etc all the way down the line. "

Hi Swiat,

You are correct, and what about those who have already paid BILLIONS for the auctioned spectrum? What about TV stations who have planned tower and installation crews for January and February? And especially all of us who responded appropriately and timely? BTW, if you are 3 miles from Sears, and you get ZERO digital stations buit get the analogs clearly, there is something wrong with your tuner or connection. You should be blowing serious smoke with those transmitters nearby.

It's just stupid, IMO, if there is ANY delay. You snooze, you lose.

agree with Gilbert totally..

BTW, if you are 3 miles from Sears, and you get ZERO digital stations buit get the analogs clearly, there is something wrong with your tuner or connection.Not if you're in a lower-floor unit surrounded by other buildings, with no permission from the landlord to use a roof antenna; but then your RF reception of analog TV can't be so fantastic either.

Too much signal? Multipath? I'm 12 miles out from my area's tower farm and can get several digital stations on an indoor set-top antenna (although I normally use a rooftop). Reconnecting the roof top antenna I lose one channel (too much signal?) and gain all the others I miss with an indoor.

Zero channels received? That would take effort.

Too much signal? Multipath? I'm 12 miles out from my area's tower farm and can get several digital stations on an indoor set-top antenna (although I normally use a rooftop). Reconnecting the roof top antenna I lose one channel (too much signal?) and gain all the others I miss with an indoor.

I had a similar experience with Chicago locals due to a premap on my antenna mast getting overdriven. I swapped out that Radio Schmuck amp for a Winegard 8700 and it all but disappeared. If you look at the specs, the Winegard amp can handle a higher input power. So, yes, your experience is possible. What channel are you losing with the outdoor antenna? Have you checked the outdoor connections thoroughly? Does the indoor antenna have a built in amplifier?

What channel are you losing with the outdoor antenna? Have you checked the outdoor connections thoroughly? Does the indoor antenna have a built in amplifier?I'm outside the Chicago market ... mainly pointing out that SOME reception should be possible and ZERO digital reception three miles from the Sears Tower is an oddity.

Quick question, for tonight's (Jan 12) soft shutdown test, will ABC7 be broadcasting digitally from their current dtv channel (52) or their post-transition dtv channel (7)? Antennaweb says that I may have trouble getting ABC7 after they switch to broadcasting on channel 7, so I want to see if my current antenna will work.

Also does anyone know if CBS2 is participating in tonight's soft shut down, or if any other stations are participating?

Thanks

Have any of you guys in the Chicago area gotten TV Guide On Screen (TVGOS) to work recently?

Lohertz and Rammitinski, thanks for your responses about TV Guide On Screen.

Well, I am happy to report that, following my customer service calls to WideOpenWest, Pioneer, and Macrovision, my TV received current TVGOS listings for the first time in about 2 months. I don't know what exactly changed, but I will not argue with the result. :)

Quick question, for tonight's (Jan 12) soft shutdown test, will ABC7 be broadcasting digitally from their current dtv channel (52) or their post-transition dtv channel (7)? Antennaweb says that I may have trouble getting ABC7 after they switch to broadcasting on channel 7, so I want to see if my current antenna will work.It was on 52.  It had to be on 52, because for this kind of test the analog signal has to keep running in order to show the failure card to show people who are watching it.

Also does anyone know if CBS2 is participating in tonight's soft shut down, or if any other stations are participating?All the full-power stations except WYIN, WXFT, WJYS, and WGBO participated in the 6:23 PM test; I missed the 10:23 PM test (didn't even know about it until WLS ended the 6:23 PM test) and can't say who did or didn't participate then.  WGN, as far as I could tell, did not show a success crawl on 9.1; WTTW showed theirs only on 11.2 and not on 11.1 (so yes, there is still a difference between them, however trivial); WLS and WYCC aired theirs on both .1 and .2.

Lohertz and Rammitinski, thanks for your responses about TV Guide On Screen.

Well, I am happy to report that, following my customer service calls to WideOpenWest, Pioneer, and Macrovision, my TV received current TVGOS listings for the first time in about 2 months. I don't know what exactly changed, but I will not argue with the result. :)

Glad you got somewhere with it! I know it can be tough to get multiple companies on the same page!

Sixty-three TV stations to launch mobile DTV service this year

[In Chicago - WFLD, WCPX and WTTW (in discussion)]

Jan 13, 2009 8:12 AM

http://broadcastengineering.com/news/sixty-three-stations-launch-mobile-dtv-service-0113/

The first wave of mobile digital television broadcasting will break in 2009 with the commitment of broadcasters to launch mobile DTV across 63 stations in 22 markets, covering 35 percent of U.S. television households, the Open Mobile Video Coalition said.
.... [snipped]

There goes more bandwidth for HD.

Sixty-three TV stations to launch mobile DTV service this year

[In Chicago - WFLD, WCPX and WTTW (in discussion)]

Jan 13, 2009 8:12 AM

http://broadcastengineering.com/news/sixty-three-stations-launch-mobile-dtv-service-0113/

The first wave of mobile digital television broadcasting will break in 2009 with the commitment of broadcasters to launch mobile DTV across 63 stations in 22 markets, covering 35 percent of U.S. television households, the Open Mobile Video Coalition said.
.... [snipped]

There goes more bandwidth for HD.
The Fox splicer system sends out enough null packets to fit a subchannel so I doubt the picture on WFLD will really be affected.

....WTTW showed theirs only on 11.2 and not on 11.1 (so yes, there is still a difference between them, however trivial);
I like that 11-1 is now the main WTTW programming. I have been recording and watching several shows in HD that I'd otherwise have skipped. Of course it would be nice if they broadcast according to their listed schedules and filled the PSIP data fields with correct and useful content...

While 11-2 is rather wasteful, I find it of some value in that shows with less important video content can be recorded with much less disk space consumption.

What about those who have already paid BILLIONS for the auctioned spectrum?

Apparently, screwing them is the point!

An executive from Clearwire is advising Obama and his competitors bought the spectrum. He wants to roll his network out first.

http://arstechnica.com/news.ars/post/20090114-4g-war-conflict-of-interests-loom-behind-possible-dtv-delay.html

Sixty-three TV stations to launch mobile DTV service this year

[In Chicago - WFLD, WCPX and WTTW (in discussion)]

Jan 13, 2009 8:12 AM

http://broadcastengineering.com/news/sixty-three-stations-launch-mobile-dtv-service-0113/

The first wave of mobile digital television broadcasting will break in 2009 with the commitment of broadcasters to launch mobile DTV across 63 stations in 22 markets, covering 35 percent of U.S. television households, the Open Mobile Video Coalition said.
.... [snipped]

There goes more bandwidth for HD.

Soo does this take away the bandwidth from current HD bandwidth or this completelty different delievery system ?

Soo does this take away the bandwidth from current HD bandwidth or this completelty different delievery system ?It takes a portion of the channel bandwidth ... depending on how the channel is set up "taking away from HD" is a matter of opinion. As noted above, Fox has a fixed bandwidth so the space would not be used for HD anyways.

This should be low enough bandwidth not to cause a problem.

Apparently, screwing them is the point!

An executive from Clearwire is advising Obama and his competitors bought the spectrum. He wants to roll his network out first.

http://arstechnica.com/news.ars/post/20090114-4g-war-conflict-of-interests-loom-behind-possible-dtv-delay.html
I knew it!!! I smelled a rat when I first heard about the delay. It seemed odd to me that Obama was thinking about the DTV transition at all considering the really important stuff he's got to worry about. It also didn't make sense that he would want to delay the transition in order to placate what appears to be a very small percentage of the population.

After reading the ARS article, now it all makes sense. It's always about the money. Wonder why the mainstream media isn't picking up on this???

Hi all. First of all, congratulations, amazing work you are doing here. I'm in college studying electrical engineering but still don't know how to apply what I learn in class... :confused:

So I live in Chicago southeast of the Sears and Hancock towers, 33rd floor facing west, I can see the Sears tower from the corner of my window but there are several tall buildings nearby... what antenna would you recommend?

Thanks!

http://broadcastengineering.com/news/sixty-three-stations-launch-mobile-dtv-service-0113/

The first wave of mobile digital television broadcasting will break in 2009 with the commitment of broadcasters to launch mobile DTV across 63 stations in 22 markets, covering 35 percent of U.S. television households, the Open Mobile Video Coalition said.
.... [snipped]

There goes more bandwidth for HD.

That standard will be DOA, I predict, because it's solving the problem the wrong way. Hey, let's force stations to buy another non-trivial piece of HD equipment exactly when they're broke, to serve customers that don't exist.

Then on the consumer side, you'll have a pitch that goes "...and if your local stations support it, you'll be able to get TV on this whatzoo!"

Dead on arrival. Stations will not buy in unless there are devices, and there won't be any traction with devices until the majority of stations buy in. Hell, WFLD doesn't even have hi-def titling equipment, and that can be used for all of their customers! So I don't see them spending a dime on non-existent customers, not for a decade or two, anyway.

That standard will be DOA, I predict, ...
I hope you're correct.

Regarding loss of bandwidth for HD and other content: In order to work mobile, they need to roughly double the data rate for extra error correction. There's a maximum total data rate, so the data sent for mobile reduces the data available for other DTV content.

As I understand it, our existing tuners would not be able to receive mobile content.

If nothing else, I'd like to see a variant of mobile DTV in the form of "mobile DTV audio" to allow for a reliable audio stream for portable devices. It seems like a good compromise to me.

- Trip

Hell, WFLD doesn't even have hi-def titling equipment, and that can be used for all of their customers! So I don't see them spending a dime on non-existent customers, not for a decade or two, anyway.

How about it! How lame is WFLD? It was so irritating watching 24 when every 10 minutes it switched to SD (with letterbox and pillar box) so they could warn us about the blizzard that never came. Weak. They operate like they have ME-TV's budget.

How about it! How lame is WFLD? It was so irritating watching 24 when every 10 minutes it switched to SD (with letterbox and pillar box) so they could warn us about the blizzard that never came. Weak. They operate like they have ME-TV's budget.

The Fox network HD gear does not allow for such overlays on the HD. That equipment is supposed to be replaced with new equipment that has that capability in time for the Fall season.

- Trip

www.chicagotribune.com/business/technology/chi-thu-techbuzz-mobile-dtv-jan15,0,7435899.column

Plan to put live local TV on hand-helds bears watching

Mobile DTV will send signals from local stations to portable devices

Eric Benderoff Tech Buzz

January 15, 2009

There's television technology being tested in Chicago that about a dozen people can watch right now.

But the question is how many people will tune in when it's ready for prime time? If this TV is free, and it may be, it could be a hit.

Called Mobile DTV, it will send live signals from local TV stations to a hand-held device or a car-mounted video monitor. The signal stays sharp as you drive along the Kennedy Expressway (for back-seat viewing, of course) or ride the "L" to work.

.... [snipped]

I knew it!!! I smelled a rat when I first heard about the delay. It seemed odd to me that Obama was thinking about the DTV transition at all considering the really important stuff he's got to worry about. It also didn't make sense that he would want to delay the transition in order to placate what appears to be a very small percentage of the population.

After reading the ARS article, now it all makes sense. It's always about the money. Wonder why the mainstream media isn't picking up on this???

This whole thing started because of a letter that Consumers Union sent. So, while Obama may be influenced by this guy who wants to gain a competitive edge, he may simply have been in the right place at the right time.

Mark

Soo does this take away the bandwidth from current HD bandwidth or this completelty different delievery system ?

No its completely different delivery system. The guys demoing this at CES for us said that they are using a different frequency on the cellular carrier systems and it doesn't breakup like how an atsc signal does.

It takes a portion of the channel bandwidth ... depending on how the channel is set up "taking away from HD" is a matter of opinion. As noted above, Fox has a fixed bandwidth so the space would not be used for HD anyways.
This should be low enough bandwidth not to cause a problem.

According to the guys who demoed this for us at CES, that statement is completely wrong and it has no affect on the current atsc digital transmission. They install a special box at the tv station which splits off the mobile signal and retransmits it on a different frequency via cellular carrier signals using dvb H technology.

Read here for more http://focus.ti.com/pdfs/wtbu/ti_dvbh_overview.pdf

www.chicagotribune.com/business/technology/chi-thu-techbuzz-mobile-dtv-jan15,0,7435899.column

Plan to put live local TV on hand-helds bears watching

Mobile DTV will send signals from local stations to portable devices

Eric Benderoff Tech Buzz

January 15, 2009

There's television technology being tested in Chicago that about a dozen people can watch right now.

But the question is how many people will tune in when it's ready for prime time? If this TV is free, and it may be, it could be a hit.

Called Mobile DTV, it will send live signals from local TV stations to a hand-held device or a car-mounted video monitor. The signal stays sharp as you drive along the Kennedy Expressway (for back-seat viewing, of course) or ride the "L" to work.

.... [snipped]

Thats cool.

No, it's within the regular stream. Not a separate frequency. When WRAL-DT in Raleigh did the testing, they had to disable their SD sub to make it fit.

This is ATSC-M/H, not DVB-H. Two different systems.

- Trip

Does anybody have any info about WCIU TV it says it's a Chicago Hd channel. I can get it on dish network (not HD) but would like to see if I can get it OTA I tried 26-1 but get nothing (it is ch 26 on dish.

It's definitely HD. But if you're truly in the center of Illinois, then you're probably too far away to get it OTA.

It's definitely HD. But if you're truly in the center of Illinois, then you're probably too far away to get it OTA.
Well I'm 90 miles south of Chicago and I get Fox, NBC, ABC, Ch 9. I don't get any CBS feed and I was just curious about the WCIU

Does anybody have any info about WCIU TV it says it's a Chicago Hd channel. I can get it on dish network (not HD) but would like to see if I can get it OTA I tried 26-1 but get nothing (it is ch 26 on dish.

It's broadcasting on 27, more info is here thanks to sebenste.

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=9948405#post9948405

This whole thing started because of a letter that Consumers Union sent. So, while Obama may be influenced by this guy who wants to gain a competitive edge, he may simply have been in the right place at the right time.

Mark

Perhaps. But where is the groundswell of public support for a delay?

"According to Nielsen Co., December data shows that approximately 7.8 million households, or 6.8% of total U.S. television homes, are completely unprepared, meaning that no TV set would be able to receive a signal unless some change is made." Twice.com

So if this is correct, Obama is asking to delay the transition for less than 7% of the viewers. And that number was at the end of December. Assumedly, some of these unprepared households have already obtained converters during the past few weeks.

Given this small number, why didn't Obama simply ask congress to appropriate more funds for the CECB program. This would be far simpler to implement and less confusing to the general public than moving the date. Me thinks there is another reason for requesting the delay.

ARS Technica ran another article today:

"So, to sum up, both Dish Network and ICO are positioned to move into the DVB-SH market very soon. Most analysts think Dish will be using its 700MHz winnings for this purpose. And an employee of the holding company that owns ICO, who sat on ICO Global's board as of a month ago, has joined the Obama team unannounced to help set DTV policy. Shortly thereafter, Obama team announced it would seek a delay that keeps that spectrum out of Dish's hands while ICO works to get its own DVB-SH service up and running.

None of this necessarily means there's anything nefarious afoot; there are strong policy arguments on both sides of the DTV delay question. Still, combine this with the separate Clearwire issues I wrote about Wednesday, and it's just sort of mystifying that Salemme made it through vetting, given what appear to be multiple dimensions of vested interest in the question. Even assuming that everything about the decision-making process is above board, there's a question of disclosure here. That someone about whom so many questions can be raised would join the presidential transition team without any public announcement—without being listed on the Change.gov roster more than a month after coming on board—seems at odds with the new era of transparency and openness Obama has been promising. If Gerry Salemme is going to be telling Obama whether or not we need to delay the DTV transition, Obama at least ought to be telling us about it."

http://arstechnica.com/journals/law.ars/2009/01/15/asecond-helping-of-salemme-more-questions-about-dtv-delay

Well I'm 90 miles south of Chicago and I get Fox, NBC, ABC, Ch 9. I don't get any CBS feed and I was just curious about the WCIU

You won't get WCIU because of Fox 27 analog north of Champaign. When it signs off, with a big antenna, you have a shot at getting it, as well as WBBM.

How about it! How lame is WFLD? It was so irritating watching 24 when every 10 minutes it switched to SD (with letterbox and pillar box) so they could warn us about the blizzard that never came. Weak. They operate like they have ME-TV's budget.

It wasn't their fault the blizzard never came, and ME-TV is great no matter what their budget is.

What you want is to get Fox to run a crawl in HD...and no Fox station can do that until they install their next generation splicer later this year, unfortunately.

..and ME-TV is great no matter what their budget is.The content might be, but the picture quality sure ain't. Not anymore. :(

How about it! How lame is WFLD? It was so irritating watching 24 when every 10 minutes it switched to SD (with letterbox and pillar box) so they could warn us about the blizzard that never came. Weak. They operate like they have ME-TV's budget.

What about our budget?

Hey there "hvs10trk"! What's the status of the software/hardware upgrade that was supposed to happen a while back?

Hey there "hvs10trk"! What's the status of the software/hardware upgrade that was supposed to happen a while back?

It happened and didn't fix the problems we were hoping to fix.

It happened and didn't fix the problems we were hoping to fix.

Any other fixes you guys are looking into?

No, it's within the regular stream. Not a separate frequency. When WRAL-DT in Raleigh did the testing, they had to disable their SD sub to make it fit.

This is ATSC-M/H, not DVB-H. Two different systems.

- Trip

Ok that makes seance now. The system they were showing us had ATSC within DVB-H. We specifically asked if it could pickup regular ATSC streams as we changed markets and they said no. They were offering content like cnn mobile for sale too. I hadnt seen too much of ATSC-M/H at ces other than this system they were showing off.

So is CBS going to remain on the low VHF band and ABC 7 going to remain on UHF after Feb 17th now that the analog shut-off is being moved to June?

Ok that makes seance now. The system they were showing us had ATSC within DVB-H. We specifically asked if it could pickup regular ATSC streams as we changed markets and they said no. They were offering content like cnn mobile for sale too. I hadnt seen too much of ATSC-M/H at ces other than this system they were showing off.

That sounds like Qualcomm's MediaFLO service, which is available in many markets on soon-to-be-former channel 55. That's a subscription service. My understanding is that ATSC-M/H would be free, though I'm not certain.

- Trip

Ok that makes seance now.
Wasn't digital television supposed to get rid of ghosts?

You won't get WCIU because of Fox 27 analog north of Champaign. When it signs off, with a big antenna, you have a shot at getting it, as well as WBBM.
Any ideas about the Fox turn off analog date. I have not heard anything. This is kinda normal in the boonies. It's a need to know and I guess we don't need to know. I have a rotor but usually just keep the Chicago stuff coming in even though I am closer to Champaign. Between the religious and the paid programing it's really some bad TV. Thank you for the info it is appreciated.

So is CBS going to remain on the low VHF band and ABC 7 going to remain on UHF after Feb 17th now that the analog shut-off is being moved to June?

It's not official yet...and I hope it doesn't. But if the date gets pushed back, unless channel 12 signs off in Champaign and Milwaukee, the answer is yes to both.

Any ideas about the Fox turn off analog date. I have not heard anything. This is kinda normal in the boonies. It's a need to know and I guess we don't need to know. I have a rotor but usually just keep the Chicago stuff coming in even though I am closer to Champaign. Between the religious and the paid programing it's really some bad TV. Thank you for the info it is appreciated.

Fox will turn off their analog on February 17, or whenever it is if the date changes.

... I have a rotor but usually just keep the Chicago stuff coming in even though I am closer to Champaign. Between the religious and the paid programing it's really some bad TV......

i'm curious about your ota situation there, wvasko...i think u said b4 that you are 90 air miles from chicago?...how high up is your antenna? and what kind of antenna are u using?

is it normal for most people in your area (who are not on cable or satellite)to get both the chicago and Champaign stations? if so, what kind of antennas and height do your neighbors typically have to use there?

90 miles is pretty far away for ota....so i am guessing u need large antennas on 40 or 50 foot towers minimum?

which stations come in more 'dependably' in your area?....or are they all more or less equal in that regard?

do the digital signals cover your area as well as, worse or better than the analog signals did?

i'm curious about your ota situation there, wvasko...i think u said b4 that you are 90 air miles from chicago?...how high up is your antenna? and what kind of antenna are u using?

is it normal for most people in your area (who are not on cable or satellite)to get both the chicago and Champaign stations? if so, what kind of antennas and height do your neighbors typically have to use there?

90 miles is pretty far away for ota....so i am guessing u need large antennas on 40 or 50 foot towers minimum?

which stations come in more 'dependably' in your area?....or are they all more or less equal in that regard?

do the digital signals cover your area as well as, worse or better than the analog signals did?
57 ft tower and a Channel Master 4228 and actually until this last week pretty consistent. We have had an extreme weather week so I am not sure what problem is or when it will straighten out. We have a dish network satellite backup and also use the tower for our WiFi internet connection which has also been very inconsistent. Hoping all gets better when we get above zero on a regular basis.

Wasn't digital television supposed to get rid of ghosts?

i laughed

I have a confusing problem - ~20-ft run of coax from splitter to kitchen wall. The run is through the unfinished attic of a ranch type house.

Before the install I measure wycc at ~24 dB (rats nest of ~20-ft of intertwined cable), after the run I'm seeing ~15 dB. Same connections, same cable, different environment loss of 9 dB!

What analog artifacts should I look for to shoot this trouble down?

Roof mount antenna, 300 - 75 ohm transformer, coax to grounding block, block to splitter in attic.

I have a confusing problem - ~20-ft run of coax from splitter to kitchen wall. The run is through the unfinished attic of a ranch type house.

Before the install I measure wycc at ~24 dB (rats nest of ~20-ft of intertwined cable), after the run I'm seeing ~15 dB. Same connections, same cable, different environment loss of 9 dB!

What analog artifacts should I look for to shoot this trouble down?

Roof mount antenna, 300 - 75 ohm transformer, coax to grounding block, block to splitter in attic.

Hey OTA,

I would check:

1. Connectors. Any loose/not well seeded? Jiggle wire to see if you see any analog breakup.

2. Coax. Is it RG-6? If not, replace it. If it is, is it quad-shielded? Try moving the wire a little if you have slack. If your signal goes up and down while moving, you have ingress of signal into the cable (and signal leaking out!), and interference as well. Replace with quad shielded RG-6.

3. Check for sharp crimps, breaks or other problems with the coax itself.

So is CBS going to remain on the low VHF band and ABC 7 going to remain on UHF after Feb 17th now that the analog shut-off is being moved to June?

That would be disheartening. I've been watiting so long to watch CBS. Watching the game on analog sucked today, the fourth quarter was in B & W.

Anybody know???

It happened and didn't fix the problems we were hoping to fix.

My wife was watching the George Lopez show a few nights back on our Olevia, which of course stutters the picture like crazy, and all of sudden the picture was perfect. I realized there was a crawler overlay on the screen (probably warning about the sub-zero temps), could this help you solve the problem? Can you run a clear overlay 24/7?

I miss the U!

That would be disheartening. I've been watiting so long to watch CBS. Watching the game on analog sucked today, the fourth quarter was in B & W.

Anybody know???

Nope. Watch Congress, you'll know when we know.

Has anyone heard on WBBM testing DT12 yet? Were getting closer to the magic date, and Obama has thrown a wrench into things. Just wondering if anyone knew what the status on this is. I would have expected them to be testing this weekend if not the next at the very latest. Come on WBBM.

Ill pay for the keg of beer and strippers if that's what you need to get this damm thing going! :D

My wife was watching the George Lopez show a few nights back on our Olevia, which of course stutters the picture like crazy, and all of sudden the picture was perfect. I realized there was a crawler overlay on the screen (probably warning about the sub-zero temps), could this help you solve the problem? Can you run a clear overlay 24/7?

I miss the U!

Not the issue.

MeTV and MeToo's PSIP (at least 26-2 and -3) program info does not match the show. Says Cheers, was Bewitched. Says Benson, is Cosby Show. Says Little House..., is some police show.

MeTV and MeToo's PSIP (at least 26-2 and -3) program info does not match the show. Says Cheers, was Bewitched. Says Benson, is Cosby Show. Says Little House..., is some police show.

Did you happen to notice the time on your receiver? I had this happen on my old Radio Shack receiver and it turned out the clock was wrong on my receiver. When I corrected the clock, the program info corrected itself.

Did you happen to notice the time on your receiver? I had this happen on my old Radio Shack receiver and it turned out the clock was wrong on my receiver. When I corrected the clock, the program info corrected itself.

I've noticed the same thing and it's not the time on my receiver. The time is correct and it isn't that the shows are shifted, but they are just totally different shows...and yes, I did watch part of Delvecchio...:eek:...a gem from 1976 ;) 26-2 and 26-3 guides are still wrong today.

MeTV and MeToo's PSIP (at least 26-2 and -3) program info does not match the show. Says Cheers, was Bewitched. Says Benson, is Cosby Show. Says Little House..., is some police show.

yes.....thats been going on for more than a week now....sometimes the channel 26 epg is correct but most of the time lately its been wrong on one or all of the ch. 26 sub-channels....

hvs10trk is a ch 26 engineer and he has said in the past that it has something to do with the wrong PSIP data being sent and theres no ez way to monitor that data for some reason...at least thats what i think he said a while back....

they'll fix it and get it right for the long-term soon, i bet....the ch 26 engineers must have a hell of a lot of things to keep track of since they are transmitting 7 or 8 independent 24 hour video feeds! i hope they are getting combat pay....they deserve it....

MeTV and MeToo's PSIP (at least 26-2 and -3) program info does not match the show. Says Cheers, was Bewitched. Says Benson, is Cosby Show. Says Little House..., is some police show.

Ill check on my end. One thing ive noticed in the PSIP world, try unplugging your receiver and powering it back up and see if your box "force" updates the guide. I've noticed that our Insignia's we use for OTA monitoring need a reboot every week to show accurate data. Please let me know either way your results.

yes.....thats been going on for more than a week now....sometimes the channel 26 epg is correct but most of the time lately its been wrong on one or all of the ch. 26 sub-channels....

Hvs10trk is a ch 26 engineer and he has said in the past that it has something to do with the wrong psip data being sent and theres no ez way to monitor that data for some reason...at least thats what i think he said a while back....

They'll fix it and get it right for the long-term soon, i bet....the ch 26 engineers must have a hell of a lot of things to keep track of since they are transmitting 7 or 8 independent 24 hour video feeds! I hope they are getting combat pay....they deserve it....

:)

I knew it!!! I smelled a rat when I first heard about the delay. It seemed odd to me that Obama was thinking about the DTV transition at all considering the really important stuff he's got to worry about. It also didn't make sense that he would want to delay the transition in order to placate what appears to be a very small percentage of the population.

After reading the ARS article, now it all makes sense. It's always about the money. Wonder why the mainstream media isn't picking up on this???

One thing I haven't seen anyone here suggest is contacting your state senators / representatives. This delay hasn't been made official yet, so it's up to people like us to make our voices heard. Just yesterday I contacted Senator Durbin (http://durbin.senate.gov/contact.cfm) and the representative for my district, Bill Foster, and asked for their support in defeating any legislation that would delay the Feb. 17th transition. Roland Burris is too new to have a similar means of contacting him, but if any Illinois resident needs to figure out who the representative is for their district, they can use this link (http://www.elections.il.gov/DistrictLocator/SelectSearchType.aspx?NavLink=1).

I haven't had much use with ota since going cable many years ago. However, I am hooking up an old analog TV with a new converter box and came up with an issue. The TV uses rabbit ears. The converter box won't recognize channel 2 and 7 is spotty. Will a better indoor antenna help? I have read in these forums that the signal on these two stations may be to blame and may be changing. Any help will be welcome. By the way, I live in the Northwest Burbs.

Has anyone heard on WBBM testing DT12 yet?
Long time lurker, first time poster...

From what I understand, WBBM has already converted one of WTTW's transmitters and already tested it into a dummy load. Supposedly there won't be any OTA test.

Also, it sounds like regardless of if the transition delay takes place, WBBM will still take over ownership of WTTW's old equipment and WTTW will be signing off as planned on the 17th. This is how the contract between the two has been written.

I have an over-the-air question for digital TV in Chicago: Where are the transmitters located for the major network broacasters? I may visit the city late next month and wanted to know for sure. :)

I have an over-the-air question for digital TV in Chicago: Where are the transmitters located for the major network broacasters? I may visit the city late next month and wanted to know for sure. :)IIRC: All but one Chicago area full power station have their digital facilities located at the Sears Tower. Not exactly something you can visit (admire from afar?).

Ill check on my end. One thing ive noticed in the PSIP world, try unplugging your receiver and powering it back up and see if your box "force" updates the guide. I've noticed that our Insignia's we use for OTA monitoring need a reboot every week to show accurate data. Please let me know either way your results.

This is my Samsung LN19A450 (which also suffers from the HD jitters). I don't think it has any program guide memory. It just reads the PSIP when you change the channel.

I haven't had much use with ota since going cable many years ago. However, I am hooking up an old analog TV with a new converter box and came up with an issue. The TV uses rabbit ears. The converter box won't recognize channel 2 and 7 is spotty. Will a better indoor antenna help? I have read in these forums that the signal on these two stations may be to blame and may be changing. Any help will be welcome. By the way, I live in the Northwest Burbs.

Hey bgcable,

2 is tough because they are at low power on channel 3, a channel known for severe interference...and 7 will be going back to channel 7 in less than a month (hopefully). I say wait it out...a bigger indoor antenna probably won't help you except maybe get you better reception on 7.

This is my Samsung LN19A450 (which also suffers from the HD jitters). I don't think it has any program guide memory. It just reads the PSIP when you change the channel.

Who woulda thought the cheap Insigna's would have the guide problem but power cycling them force updated the info on the box.

I have an over-the-air question for digital TV in Chicago: Where are the transmitters located for the major network broadcasters?That information is in the stickies at the beginning of this thread.  Sebenste keeps it updated.

IIRC: All but one Chicago area full power station have their digital facilities located at the Sears Tower.....

who's the one exception?....is it maybe ch 62? which i think is or was transmitting from somewhere near joliet?

who's the one exception?....is it maybe ch 62? which i think is or was transmitting from somewhere near joliet?

WYIN 56-1.

- Trip

Long time lurker, first time poster...

From what I understand, WBBM has already converted one of WTTW's transmitters and already tested it into a dummy load. Supposedly there won't be any OTA test.

Also, it sounds like regardless of if the transition delay takes place, WBBM will still take over ownership of WTTW's old equipment and WTTW will be signing off as planned on the 17th. This is how the contract between the two has been written.

I spoke with the chief engineer at wbbm 2 on mon 1/19.He told me they are ready to switch over to channel 12 on Feb 17 but....
If the federal government delays the feb17 transition date wbbm will not broadcast on channel 12 until the new transition date.He told me there is a analog channel 12 broadcasting in Milwaukee WI.

Long time lurker, first time poster...

From what I understand, WBBM has already converted one of WTTW's transmitters and already tested it into a dummy load. Supposedly there won't be any OTA test.

Also, it sounds like regardless of if the transition delay takes place, WBBM will still take over ownership of WTTW's old equipment and WTTW will be signing off as planned on the 17th. This is how the contract between the two has been written.

I spoke with the chief engineer at wbbm 2 on mon 1/19.He told me they are ready to switch over to channel 12 on Feb 17 but....
If the federal government delays the feb17 transition date wbbm will not broadcast on channel 12 until the new transition date.He told me there is a analog channel 12 broadcasting in Milwaukee WI.


Magical how that happens :D :) Welcome to the site and dont be a lurker or stranger :) Is there any way they could throw a low to the north to keep from interfering? That's probably something at the antenna that they would have to do, and I dont think they would do that. Right now I cant even get serviced by WBBM, even if I had the right equipment, and Im only in manteno! I know I was hoping for an OTA test to see how well reception is going to work. Cant wait. Were almost less than a month away.

who's the one exception?....is it maybe ch 62? which i think is or was transmitting from somewhere near joliet?

Yep they are transmitting from Tinley Park, Right off of I 80

Yep they are transmitting from Tinley Park, Right off of I 80

Analog only. Digital from Sears.

IIRC: All but one Chicago area full power station have their digital facilities located at the Sears Tower. Not exactly something you can visit (admire from afar?).
The other major station is WBBM (CBS) which broadcasts for now from the John Hancock Bldg. It will move to the Sears Tower and ch. 12 during the analog shut-off.

Who woulda thought the cheap Insigna's would have the guide problem but power cycling them force updated the info on the box.

Seems better today. Cosby is correct. Cagney & Lacey says 'No Title'.

The Samsung is pretty basic. All I ever see it display is the channel name, program title, program start/end time, and V-Chip rating. For description, it always just says 'No Detailed Information'. There is no basic guide like even the DTT901 I have as a backup for my main TV (no digital tuner.)

Who woulda thought the cheap Insigna's would have the guide problem but power cycling them force updated the info on the box.

The guide shows correct for me tonight. I did not power cycle the CECB and just went to check after reading this post. It's a Zenith which should have the same internal compponents as the Insignia. Ch 26 subchannels are the only stations I've seen the mixed up guide on so far, but maybe thats because I'm watching more programming there.

update on trying to add metoo hey hvs if are out there please read this message i sent and email this message to directv

We have repeatedly tried to reach a deal with DirecTV. We have offered them the right to carry Me-Too for no compensation. Indeed, we have essentially 'begged' them to carry Me-Too and they have refused. We are READY to AGREE immediately! We would be glad to discuss this with ANYONE at DirecTV. If you can help get this done...PLEASE do so.

Sincerely,
Me-Too, WMEU-TV Channel 48
Classic Television Defined

i talked to a Customer Service Rep this morning from directv and they told me over the phone that he talked to a supervisor and someone from directv will be calling to Wiegel Broadcasting or traveling to Wiegel Broadcasting in Chicago to try to get metoo added to directv.The CSR told me to contact them next week to find out any updates. i wanted to let anyone know if you would like to MEtoo added to your directv chicago lineups please call 1-800-531-8000.the more calls and emails the better chances are we can get this station added.

Thanks

Allen Culver
Streator,Illinois

The guide shows correct for me tonight. I did not power cycle the CECB and just went to check after reading this post. It's a Zenith which should have the same internal compponents as the Insignia. Ch 26 subchannels are the only stations I've seen the mixed up guide on so far, but maybe thats because I'm watching more programming there.

It's something on our end. Something in the chain between the PSIP generator and set top boxes is "hanging" on to old data. Manually deleting and re-importing the data fixes it for a time.

News on the DTV Transition Delay:

http://www.freep.com/article/2009012...n+postponement

Text:

The move to push back the looming Feb. 17 date for the transition to all-digital TV has been stalled, signaling that this new Congress is as indecisive and bogged down in partisan bickering as the old one. Meanwhile, it appears likely that those over-the-air viewers who do not yet have a converter box are going to be unable to watch TV in less than a month.


After Republicans in the Senate blocked a bill last week that would push the date back four months, Democrats in the House Energy and Commerce Committee were to take up their version of the bill Wednesday. But Chairman Henry Waxman, D-Calif., surprised everyone by postponing discussion to "assess the implications of the Senate action."


Confused? So is everybody -- the TV industry, which has invested billions and been running nonstop announcements of the DTV transition date; wireless carriers, which are set to take over the to-be-vacated standard analog TV channels, and consumers, who've been jerked around by everyone on this.


The biggest problem is that the government ran out of money that discounted by $40 the purchase of a converter box through coupons. Those boxes are needed by anyone who watches TV signals through an outside antenna or rabbit ears. About 2 million people are on a waiting list for coupons.


More than $1.5 billion was spent and 41 million coupons were mailed out, although 13 million have expired without being turned in.


Estimates are anywhere from 1 million to 5 million Americans may still need those boxes for their old TV sets. As of early December, as many as 100,000 people in metro Detroit may be affected, according to the Federal Communications Commission.


Those who watch TV via cable or satellite or on a TV that has a digital tuner (generally all sets made since 2004), will not be affected by the transition.


The Obama Administration, backed by Consumers Union, along with some key Democratic congressional leaders, have endorsed the plea for a delayed transition date. Many Republican lawmakers, joined by the National Association of Broadcasters, have voiced opposition.


Waxman didn't say how long the postponement on the House vote will last, though he clearly still supports the 115-day pushback until June 16.


"The transition to digital television is not going well. There is not enough money for the converter box coupon program and millions of Americans could experience serious problems," Waxman said. "Delay of the deadline is our only hope of lessening the impact on millions of consumers. Without a short, onetime extension, millions of households will lose all television reception."

So, Congress, here's a suggestion: Keep the DTV transition a go for Feb. 17. Move the program through. But keep issuing the coupons. About 300,000 of the original coupons sent out were not even used and expire every week, probably because the holders bought new TVs or subscribed to cable or satellite.


So release those unused coupons to the 2 million people on the waiting list. That will take care of the problem in a very short period of time.


This is not a difficult issue to solve. It just requires a little common sense which, judging by the partisan bickering and indecision, seems to be in even shorter supply in Congress than those coupons are for consumers.

FYI: The waiting list as of yesterday was 2.5 million coupons ... about the same as last Wednesday (two weeks ago it was under 1 million waiting). 20.7 million coupons have been redeemed and 14 million have expired. 11.7 million coupons are outstanding.

FUNDING additional coupons would solve the problem and likely be mostly a loan because of the current redemption rate (a sad 53%). Hopefully congress doesn't put off funding coupons because of this crazy idea to change the deadline.

update on trying to add metoo hey hvs if are out there please read this message i sent and email this message to directv

We have repeatedly tried to reach a deal with DirecTV. We have offered them the right to carry Me-Too for no compensation. Indeed, we have essentially 'begged' them to carry Me-Too and they have refused. We are READY to AGREE immediately! We would be glad to discuss this with ANYONE at DirecTV. If you can help get this done...PLEASE do so.

Sincerely,
Me-Too, WMEU-TV Channel 48
Classic Television Defined

i talked to a Customer Service Rep this morning from directv and they told me over the phone that he talked to a supervisor and someone from directv will be calling to Wiegel Broadcasting or traveling to Wiegel Broadcasting in Chicago to try to get metoo added to directv.The CSR told me to contact them next week to find out any updates. i wanted to let anyone know if you would like to MEtoo added to your directv chicago lineups please call 1-800-531-8000.the more calls and emails the better chances are we can get this station added.

Thanks

Allen Culver
Streator,Illinois

I think you are in the wrong thread. OTA = free tv, i.e., we don't need to call anyone to receive it.

Is anyone else noticing the breakups on 7-1? (During Ugly Betty)

This in on OTA and Comcast cable.

Yes, it looked like it was coming from the video source. It was BAD! Every 10 seconds teh picture was breaking up. WLS HD looks like they are running HD tapes instead of HD digital. The picture just doesnt pop like others do.

update on trying to add metoo hey hvs if are out there please read this message i sent and email this message to directv

bluegrass - This should be posted over in the Chicago, IL - DBS thread (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=579650) instead of here. You're much more likely to find like-minded DirecTV customers over there.

Yes, it looked like it was coming from the video source. It was BAD! Every 10 seconds teh picture was breaking up. WLS HD looks like they are running HD tapes instead of HD digital. The picture just doesnt pop like others do.

What really irritated me was when they flashed their station callsign during Lost the other night. They switched over to standard definition, cause they can't overlay over hd, which I can understand, but why switchover in the middle of a broadcast like that.

WSPY-TV's Nelson Multimedia has sold off analog W24AJ and digital channel W22DG-D, both in Aurora, to Polnet Communications. Approval is pending before the FCC for an undisclosed amount. They retain WSPY-CA analog on channel 30, and their digital WSPY-LD on 18, which has yet to sign on.

The same day, they filed to move W22DG-LD to channel 20, and up to Schaumburg with 10 kw of power.

WCIU-DT has applied for a power drop from 590 kw to 500 kw so that they may broadcast with some vertical polarization, which may have the effect of improving signal close to the transmitter.

WSPY-TV's Nelson Multimedia has sold off analog W24AJ and digital channel W22DG-D, both in Aurora, to Polnet Communications. Approval is pending before the FCC for an undisclosed amount. They retain WSPY-CA analog on channel 30, and their digital WSPY-LD on 18, which has yet to sign on.

The same day, they filed to move W22DG-LD to channel 20, and up to Schaumburg with 10 kw of power.

.

Really... so what could they put on that channels and when could we actually see a signal?

Looks like a deal has been reached for the Senate version of the DTV delay bill. The compromise is that stations can turn off analog signals before June if they choose to.

http://www.google.com/hostednews/ap/article/ALeqM5gFQTV6u7aQ_ujqqX5bFP5QPRIVgAD95SJ1K09

This actually seems more confusing than just delaying the date. While I doubt that many stations will actually dump analog early, if they do, there will be mass confusion. If people can't get ready for one widely publicized date, how can they be expected to prepare for multiple turn off dates decided independently by braodcasters. And what about the stations that want to make the switch but can't (WBBM) because their new frequency is being used by an analog in an adjacent market?

It's really troubling that our elected leaders feel the need to pander to a small minority of procrastinators rather than lead us boldly into the DTV era. It just shows how technophobic they really are. The more they meddle with this, the worse it gets.

Looks like a deal has been reached for the Senate version of the DTV delay bill. The compromise is that stations can turn off analog signals before June if they choose to.

http://www.google.com/hostednews/ap/article/ALeqM5gFQTV6u7aQ_ujqqX5bFP5QPRIVgAD95SJ1K09

This actually seems more confusing than just delaying the date. While I doubt that many stations will actually dump analog early, if they do, there will be mass confusion. If people can't get ready for one widely publicized date, how can they be expected to prepare for multiple turn off dates decided independently by braodcasters. And what about the stations that want to make the switch but can't (WBBM) because their new frequency is being used by an analog in an adjacent market?

It's really troubling that our elected leaders feel the need to pander to a small minority of procrastinators rather than lead us boldly into the DTV era. It just shows how technophobic they really are. The more they meddle with this, the worse it gets.

The switch should be made on the original date, all this is doing is delaying the inevitable. If people aren't ready for February 17 what do you think is going cause them to be ready at a later date. They will procrastinate again. While the great government is at it why don't they just scrap the whole idea and stay analog. This should make the procrastinators happy.

The switch should be made on the original date, all this is doing is delaying the inevitable. If people aren't ready for February 17 what do you think is going cause them to be ready at a later date. They will procrastinate again.

My point exactly. I did not mean to imply that the date should be delayed. The transition should go on as planned. But it certainly looks as if Congress is moving closer to approving a delay, and the compromise reached in order to get the support needed to pass the bill screws things up even more. The reason most given for the delay is to protect a vulnerable segment of our population, the old and poor. This doesn't make any sense to me. TV is just not that important. It most certainly takes a back seat to freeing the spectrum for emergency services.

So what is the real reason for the push for a delay?

If you think we are having problems getting digital TV off the ground, you should watch the History Channel's documentary, "Modern Marvels: Television". The guy who invented electronic television, Philo Farnsworth, had to beat out another inventor developing a mechanical version of TV. Then he had to fight RCA, who had simultaneously developed a similar working model for TV. Farnsworth won the patent, but never really got the credit for inventing TV. David Sarnoff, the visionary of RCA, developed many technical and programming aspects of TV. RCA had its battles too. When the FCC was created there was no standard for broadcast TV. Sarnoff’s 450 line system had to beat out a competing 600 line system to became the standard. Then when color TV was being developed, the FCC actually first licensed a mechanical color system. Sarnoff finally proved RCA’s electronic color system to be superior and won the license in 1954. I remember getting our first color TV in 1969 so we could see man land on the moon. It took a long time for color to catch on. So I guess waiting a few more months for analog to sign off isn't such a big deal.

If you haven't seen this 1996 documentary yet, watch it. It's well written and quite interesting. Netflix has it in their streaming library if you are a subscriber.

It took a long time for color to catch on. So I guess waiting a few more months for analog to sign off isn't such a big deal.It's not comparable.  Color and B&W coexisted just fine (and still do, as there still is some black-and-white programming on TV, such as vintage reruns and old movies).  That there still were many B&W programs for a few years didn't interfere with the reception of color broadcasts.  There was no need to get the B&W shows off the air to make acceptable use of color programming.

But in many cases lingering analog stations do interfere with digital stations.  If it weren't for that, I wouldn't mind the delay either.

I've been unable to receive WBBM-DT all day through our roof antenna and getting it only weakly on a second-floor indoor antenna, and WBBM analog is unwatchably fuzzy.  I was looking forward to the shutdown of the analogs on channel 12 so that WBBM could make its move.  Looks as though it won't happen until June now.  Where in the changeover from B&W to color is a counterpart to that?

[WLS was carrying spots saying that the analog shutoff would be February 17, then "in February," and now "in 2009."]

It's not comparable. Color and B&W coexisted just fine...

I don't really watch CBS much and when I do I just switch over to my other antenna and catch 58 in Milwaukee. All the other channels are solid. So I'm coexisting just fine. :)

It's not comparable.* Color and B&W coexisted just fine (and still do, as there still is some black-and-white programming on TV, such as vintage reruns and old movies).* That there still were many B&W programs for a few years didn't interfere with the reception of color broadcasts.* There was no need to get the B&W shows off the air to make acceptable use of color programming.

But in many cases lingering analog stations do interfere with digital stations.* If it weren't for that, I wouldn't mind the delay either.

I've been unable to receive WBBM-DT all day through our roof antenna and getting it only weakly on a second-floor indoor antenna, and WBBM analog is unwatchably fuzzy.* I was looking forward to the shutdown of the analogs on channel 12 so that WBBM could make its move.* Looks as though it won't happen until June now.* Where in the changeover from B&W to color is a counterpart to that?

[WLS was carrying spots saying that the analog shutoff would be February 17, then "in February," and now "in 2009."]

The Senate legislation (which is likely to pass and also be passed in the house) allows for early transition. It would be interesting if someone from WBBM or WLS could tell us the likelihood of their transitions happening on time on Feb 18th.

While this legislation will solve some of the CECB coupon issues, the mess of possible multiple transition dates is a headache that has no obvious solution. It seems likely that many if not most stations will transition on time anyway.

It would be interesting if someone from WBBM or WLS could tell us the likelihood of their transitions happening on time on Feb 18th.

As has been stated previously in this thread, WBBM can't happen early unless WISN (Milwaukee's ABC affiliate) discontinues broadcasting on channel 12. Also, WILL in Champaign is using channel 12. What is the likelihood of both of these analog stations signing off early?

Not good. This sucks.

As long as WLS switching, the longer they put that off, the better, as far as I'm concerned.

WLS-DT is currently the weakest channel here. Not a lot of power combined with high UHF. But even so, it's 99.9% reliable for me. The week long nightly test on 7 last year worked great, but at only 4.75 kw, it's bound to have issues in the summer. It's not much better than a low power station at that power level.

Maybe wbbm could borrow wls's uhf dt channel untill they can end up on 12. If wls transitions to 7 on time, then essentually wbbm could grab 42, and use that for now untill 12 clears up. Just an Idea. Im guessing all they would have to do is change the input wire from the 12 transmitter, unplug 7's on 42 and plug the one going from 12 into 42 and they would be all set. But im assuming its not that easy.

Maybe wbbm could borrow wls's uhf dt channel untill they can end up on 12. If wls transitions to 7 on time, then essentually wbbm could grab 42, and use that for now untill 12 clears up.

Not a bad idea, but it would probably take longer than June 12 for the FCC to approve this. It would also be expensive for WBBM. BTW - WLS-DT is using Ch52. This is one of the frequencies that is being dropped for TV. So it seems unlikely the FCC would approve this.

I was really hoping to get rid of my rotor and amp, because I've been having to replace both of them every year now for the three years I've been using them (cheap-a$$ed Chinese crap), but I'll probably still need them to get WTVO (ABC) out of Rockford, just in case of problems with WLS. Probably should keep them for WIFR (CBS) too, as a backup for WBBM.

I was really hoping to get rid of my rotor and amp, because I've been having to replace both of them every year now for the three years I've been using them, but I'll probably still need them to get WTVO (ABC) out of Rockford, just in case of problems with WLS. Probably should keep them for WIFR (CBS) too, as a backup for WBBM.

I can understand the rotor wearing out, but what happens to the amp?

As has been stated previously in this thread, WBBM can't happen early unless WISN (Milwaukee's ABC affiliate) discontinues broadcasting on channel 12. Also, WILL in Champaign is using channel 12. What is the likelihood of both of these analog stations signing off early?

Not good. This sucks.....

Again... Is there any reason to believe that WISN and WILL won't turn off on Feb 17th? If there is no legislation that requires analog past Feb 17th, why will they leave the analog on?

I can understand the rotor wearing out, but what happens to the amp?First one (CM 7777) some solder came loose inside (I could fix that one, if that's all that's really wrong with it), but a raccoon shorted out the second one (AP 8275). Might not be the amp, just the power module - haven't been able to test it - but either way...

I'd rather use the 8275 for the higher VHF power. That's why I went with that after the 7777 went out.

As has been stated previously in this thread, WBBM can't happen early unless WISN (Milwaukee's ABC affiliate) discontinues broadcasting on channel 12. Also, WILL in Champaign is using channel 12. What is the likelihood of both of these analog stations signing off early?Pretty high actually ... stations are not behind the change to June 12th. As long as it remains legal to turn off the analog February 17th (or before) MANY stations will continue to do so.

Pretty high actually ... stations are not behind the change to June 12th. As long as it remains legal to turn off the analog February 17th (or before) MANY stations will continue to do so.

We can always hope. But I read somewhere that it's allready legal for them to turn off analog signals before the transition date. This date sets the final day on which analog must be turned off, but as I understand it, there is nothing presently that says a station must continue to transmit their analog signal prior to the turn off date. So why haven't they dropped analog already?

We can always hope. But I read that it's allready legal for them to turn off analog signals before the transition date? This date sets the final day on which analog must be turned off, but as I understand it, there is nothing presently that says a station must continue to transmit their analog signal prior to the turn off date. So why haven't they dropped analog already?Most stations were planning on the coordinated effort. Especially in situations where change A requires change B, etc.

As long as the stations notify their analog viewers as required they can join the growing list of digital only stations at any time.

We can always hope. But I read somewhere that it's allready legal for them to turn off analog signals before the transition date. This date sets the final day on which analog must be turned off, but as I understand it, there is nothing presently that says a station must continue to transmit their analog signal prior to the turn off date. So why haven't they dropped analog already?

The station needs to file with the FCC for permission for an early shut-off. (Prior to 2/17)

Unless there was a technical need to shut down early, most were happy to shut down on the official conversion date, 2/17.

The station needs to file with the FCC for permission for an early shut-off. (Prior to 2/17)Actually the FCC changed that in December 2007. The stations don't have to ask for permission within the last 90 days leading up to February 17th. All they have to do is notify the FCC that they are doing it and give 30 days notice. They have to give a reason but they DO NOT have to wait for permission to be granted. Authority is automatic.

I don't really watch CBS much and when I do I just switch over to my other antenna and catch 58 in Milwaukee. All the other channels are solid. So I'm coexisting just fine. :)

Well la-di-da. My WBBM reception is below crap, and there's no possibility whatsoever of me watching Milwaukee. So like dattier, co-existence is definitely affecting me, for the worse!

In my opinion, phasing it in over a few months is much better than the whole country at once. As mentioned, the latest bill allows areas to update if they think there will be few problems. Despite the few test areas, none were major metropolitan areas, and I don't think very representative of the true chaos that could happen Feb 17.

Well la-di-da. My WBBM reception is below crap, and there's no possibility whatsoever of me watching Milwaukee. So like dattier, co-existence is definitely affecting me, for the worse!

Envy is a terrible thing. ;) Actually, I'm pretty lucky to be able to get both markets. Were it not for Milwaukee, CBS would be a crapshoot here too.

Envy is a terrible thing. ;) Actually, I'm pretty lucky to be able to get both markets. Were it not for Milwaukee, CBS would be a crapshoot here too.

and indifference is a sin... cognoscenti must speak or go unheard.

and indifference is a sin... cognoscenti must speak or go unheard.

I'm not sure if you're referring to people who are able to get WBBM, but I am one of the seemingly lucky few who are able to get WBBM with no trouble at all, so I will re-iterate my setup, which I have posted previously, about a year ago.

I am located in Vernon Hills, 30 miles from Sears Tower / John Hancock, according to tools in Google Earth.

I am using this antenna to receive WBBM - http://www.wfu.edu/~matthews/misc/dipole.html

That's right - a cheap, homemade dipole, made out of 300-ohm twinlead, cut to length for channel 3, according to the formula on that web page. It's plugged into the VHF input of a ChannelMaster 7777 amplifier, which has separate inputs for UHF and VHF. (I have a CM 4228 plugged into the UHF side.)

What's more, this is all mounted in my attic, not even outdoors. There is a run of about 75 feet of quad-shield RG-6 from the antenna to an un-amplified splitter, where the signal is split three ways.

Watching WBBM, the signal is always between 5 and 8 bars out of 10 on my TV with a 5th generation tuner. I have monitored it for over a year now, in all kinds of weather - heat, cold, wind, driving rain, snow storms, etc. I've never noticed any kind of breakup or picture problem.

I'm not trying to brag - I'm just trying to show that it is very possible to get WBBM on channel 3, from pretty far out, and with an attic antenna, no less. I'm not an antenna genius - this is the first antenna I ever setup beyond rabbit ears.

I think one of the key factors for my success is using quad-shielded RG-6, to make sure you don't get any local interference, which is very prevalent on the low VHF band. I also have a good grounding system - not sure if that helps or not. The low-noise CM 7777 amp is a big factor, as well.

I know WBBM is moving from 3 to 12 after the transition, but I'm not expecting to change my setup - that dipole should be "good enough" for VHF-Hi, maybe even as good as it was for VHF-Lo. If it's not, I'll just cut a new one to length, for the middle of the VHF-Hi band.

I know other people are farther out, or have multi-path problems, or local terrain issues. I'm thinking though, that if you're not even getting a sniff of WBBM now, you're won't get much more when they move to 12. You'll go from nothing, to getting something occasionally, with lots of breakup, but probably not watchable, and you'll be disappointed again.

Re-think your antenna setup if you fall into this category. Did you use quad-shield RG-6? How about the connectors - did you crimp your own? Did you research how to cut off the outside layers of insulation on the coax? Did you double-check all your connections? For outdoor runs, did you arrange your connectors so that they don't collect water, or at least avoid water? Did you make sure you don't have a connector at the bottom of a drip loop? How is your connection to ground? If you have an amplifier, is it a good one? One that is mentioned on this thread as being low-noise, and a high-performer?

Again, not trying to harp on anyone here - just trying to pass along some advice from somone who has had success with our elusive WBBM.

Part of my problem with the unreliability of our reception of WBBM-DT, WWME-LD, and WYCC-DT not even nine miles from the transmitters may be -- particularly with WYCC-DT, as it comes in fine on our indoor antennas and only the roof antenna has trouble delivering it; when WBBM-DT and WWME-LD get weak, it affects the whole house -- may be the RG-59 running from the roof antenna to the junction point on the basement ceiling.  There already is RG-6 connected from my old Spring Broadband Direct pizzabox running past the same part of the basement ceiling, but the pizzabox doesn't receive TV-band frequencies (or at least, when I connect an ATSC tuner to its RG-6, nothing can be tuned) and I can neither go onto the roof myself to take the RG-6 off the pizzabox and put it onto the TV antenna nor afford anyone else's price to do that for us.  There's not much use for good TV reception if I've fallen off the roof and died (I'm the only one in the household who cares that much) or if I've spent us out of affording electricity.

Part of my problem with the unreliability of our reception of WBBM-DT, WWME-LD, and WYCC-DT not even nine miles from the transmitters may be -- particularly with WYCC-DT, as it comes in fine on our indoor antennas and only the roof antenna has trouble delivering it; when WBBM-DT and WWME-LD get weak, it affects the whole house -- may be the RG-59 running from the roof antenna to the junction point on the basement ceiling.* There already is RG-6 connected from my old Spring Broadband Direct pizzabox running past the same part of the basement ceiling, but the pizzabox doesn't receive TV-band frequencies (or at least, when I connect an ATSC tuner to its RG-6, nothing can be tuned) and I can neither go onto the roof myself to take the RG-6 off the pizzabox and put it onto the TV antenna nor afford anyone else's price to do that for us.* There's not much use for good TV reception if I've fallen off the roof and died (I'm the only one in the household who cares that much) or if I've spent us out of affording electricity.

Can't you get a friend or relative or a neighbor or there kid to climb up there and swap coax? I feel for you and understand. All I know is if I don't climb up and do stuff myself it don't happen. But you always may be able to run across someone that can help you out by asking.

DTV Transition Humor (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xy-pD-M0rY4)

DTV Transition Humor (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xy-pD-M0rY4)ROTFL. :D:D:D Thanks!

In my opinion, phasing it in over a few months is much better than the whole country at once. As mentioned, the latest bill allows areas to update if they think there will be few problems. Despite the few test areas, none were major metropolitan areas, and I don't think very representative of the true chaos that could happen Feb 17.

It would just be a shame if the broadcasters and government spent all this money on a campaign to tell people that 2/17 is the last day of analog and then went about saying.. um.. maybe June 15? I could only imagine the mass confusion if that happened. Can we really afford the budget for a second education and advertising program? I think that we can't be a nanny state and knock on everyone's door like a Census Bureau employee and ask "are you ready? can I help you?" In reality there will be people dragging their feet and still confused no matter what is done or when. You can only help those that want to be helped and actually have an initiative to be prepared. You can only issue 10,000 warning message crawls on the TV for 12 months. If people choose to ignore it or procrastinate and miss out on a $40 coupon, that's their choice.

Can't you get a friend or relative or a neighbor or there kid to climb up there and swap coax?No, unfortunately.  If there were someone we could ask to do it for free, I wouldn't be posting here that we can't afford to pay someone to do it.  This is actually the second time I brought it up, having posted about it last summer as well, asking for recommendations by PM; the couple of responses were, pun intended, through the roof.

As anathematic as it sounds to do such a thing this close to the transmitters, an amp in the line actually helps our reception of WWME-LD and WBBM-DT.  The delay in the transition very likely will mean a delay in WBBM's switching from channel 3 to channel 12, so we are not happy about that at all.

Now we wait. I say shut if off and then they'll have to get their converters. There will always be those people that drag their feet. Maybe because there is a need for the emergency broadcast network in the event of civil war do to the economy...:confused:

http://www.911hoax.com/Congress_Closed_Remarks_03_2008.asp

It's a done deal... The Senate voted this afternoon to move the transition date to June 12. The House vote and Presidential signing are a formality. So, let me be the first to say to our broadcast engineers and the TV station workers on the forum, Sorry guys that you got the screw. We all know the real reason (Salamme-Clearwire) for the delay which was referenced earlier in this thread. I guess that's how things work in this country... raise record money for the president's campaign to get on his tech board and then payoff the DNC/RNC for a sham of a vote like this. WOW. WHAT A JOKE!

Part of my problem with the unreliability of our reception of WBBM-DT, WWME-LD, and WYCC-DT not even nine miles from the transmitters may be -- particularly with WYCC-DT, as it comes in fine on our indoor antennas and only the roof antenna has trouble delivering it; when WBBM-DT and WWME-LD get weak, it affects the whole house -- may be the RG-59 running from the roof antenna to the junction point on the basement ceiling.* (deleted)* There's not much use for good TV reception if I've fallen off the roof and died (I'm the only one in the household who cares that much) or if I've spent us out of affording electricity.

Agreed on both counts - RG-59 is the seive from which your precious signals for WBBM, WWME and WYCC are all leaking into the ether. :)

And don't fall off the roof - it's not worth it.

How about an attic? Do you have one? At 9 miles out, even a decent set of rabbit ears should work from your attic - as long as the elements are long enough for WBBM. I bet it would work great with quad-shield RG-6. Even regular RG-6 might be good enough to give you a good signal. I'm also assuming you have no foil-backed insulation up there. Maybe an east-facing window?

The advantage of an attic instalation is that you don't have to worry about falling off the roof! And you can go up there and fix things no matter what the weather outside is doing.

The disadvantage is, as I know has been mentioned before, the building material attenuates your signal, as will snow buildup and rain. Depending on the configuration of your house, if you can position the antenna to go out the side of the attic, avoiding the roof, that's best.

As anathematic as it sounds to do such a thing this close to the transmitters, an amp in the line actually helps our reception of WWME-LD and WBBM-DT.* The delay in the transition very likely will mean a delay in WBBM's switching from channel 3 to channel 12, so we are not happy about that at all.

The fact that the amplifier helps you also leads me to believe - in my very-much amateur opinion - that your main problem is the signal leakage out the RG-59. What little signal that is getting through is "amplifiable". (Is that a word?)

Since yesterday I have not been receiving fox (WFLD) on 32.1

All other OTA channels are fine. Any idea why this is. Is there something going on I don't know about?

No, unfortunately.* If there were someone we could ask to do it for free, I wouldn't be posting here that we can't afford to pay someone to do it.* This is actually the second time I brought it up, having posted about it last summer as well, asking for recommendations by PM; the couple of responses were, pun intended, through the roof.

This may sound crazy, but do you have a fireplace? We have a Chimney Sweep come out every few years to clean our chimney. I have found that they will do about anything that needs to be done while they are up there. I hate going up on the roof anymore so I'm happy to pay an extra $25 or $50 over the cost of the cleaning to have them fix things. Last summer they cut down a big limb hanging over my roof and also removed a hornet’s nest. They were sorry to have messed with that. Anyway, I'll bet a Sweep would put a new piece of coax and balun on your antenna if you asked them. You would probably want to guide him from the ground on what you want done. You might want to have him rotate the antenna for best signal too. If you don't have a chimney, most handymen will repair stuff on the roof as well. Just a thought.

WOW. WHAT A JOKE!But....but....this is the regime of "change" and "hope". :rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes:

"Chope."

More like "choke".

Agreed on both counts - RG-59 is the sieve from which your precious signals for WBBM, WWME and WYCC are all leaking into the ether.and The fact that the amplifier helps you also leads me to believe - in my very-much amateur opinion - that your main problem is the signal leakage out the RG-59. What little signal that is getting through is "amplifiable". (Is that a word?)Thank you.  If it wasn't a word before, it is now.  It's a shame to have the RG-6 already there but going unused.

How about an attic? Do you have one?Only a very low one, just enough to let the roof have some slope to shed rainwater and melting snow, with nothing in it except insulation.  An antenna there would work at least as well as the set-top antennas for our second-floor televisions do, but there's simply no room for one, no access to insert or adjust one, nor the existing wiring to the first-floor televisions that we already have from the basement ceiling.

This may sound crazy, but do you have a fireplace?The chimney was sealed decades ago, so we no longer have any service for it and the fireplaces are just decor now.

I was hoping to ask the landscapers if they'd reconnect the RG-6 when they cleaned our gutters in November, but they happened to come while nobody was home, and I returned to find clean gutters and no people.  Even so, I'm not sure they would have, even for an additional fee, as cleaning the gutters involves reaching them while one stays on the ladder without going onto the roof.  We had the shingles removed and replaced with a fresh first layer in 2002, so it will be while before we need roofers again.

So all told, this would end up being a separately paid-for job, unless the landscapers do it in November of 2009.

it would just be a shame if the broadcasters and government spent all this money on a campaign to tell people that 2/17 is the last day of analog and then went about saying.. Um.. Maybe june 15? I could only imagine the mass confusion if that happened. Can we really afford the budget for a second education and advertising program? I think that we can't be a nanny state and knock on everyone's door like a census bureau employee and ask "are you ready? Can i help you?" in reality there will be people dragging their feet and still confused no matter what is done or when. You can only help those that want to be helped and actually have an initiative to be prepared. You can only issue 10,000 warning message crawls on the tv for 12 months. If people choose to ignore it or procrastinate and miss out on a $40 coupon, that's their choice.

amen!

Are any of the Chicago area stations going to make the Feb. 17th switch any way?

Are any of the Chicago area stations going to make the Feb. 17th switch any way?

I came to this thread looking for the same answer. I'm guessing we'll hear from the handful of station engineers and techs who participate over the coming weeks.

I can't see a station changing its plans or having to budget for a new date.

No, unfortunately.* If there were someone we could ask to do it for free, I wouldn't be posting here that we can't afford to pay someone to do it.* This is actually the second time I brought it up, having posted about it last summer as well, asking for recommendations by PM; the couple of responses were, pun intended, through the roof.

As anathematic as it sounds to do such a thing this close to the transmitters, an amp in the line actually helps our reception of WWME-LD and WBBM-DT.* The delay in the transition very likely will mean a delay in WBBM's switching from channel 3 to channel 12, so we are not happy about that at all.

How about getting an apartment window type antenna that attaches to the windowsill. You could put the antenna up by opening the window.

In one of my installs (I have antennas everywhere) I have 2 snap in Y brackets attached to the window frame woodwork above & below and have enough mast to get 5 feet above the roof line with antenna attached to that. It works very well and I did it all by opening up the attic windows. Easy to work on in any weather. Sometimes necessity is the mother of invention.

I won't crawl on my peak of my house it's too steep. I don't mind roofs with lesser angle. Flat roofs are the bomb especially if it has a door to walk on to it. As I get older Im more cautious. I knew a few guys in my life that were like monkeys and could crawl up anything. A buddy of mine used to do crazy stuff like that years ago. He once crawled up a tower on a bar to attach a broken lead in to a big Bears game antenna from the 70's in a snowstorm. Even when I was 16 I wouldn't try that.

Being as close as you are to the transmitters you have quite a few more options then someone 50 miles away. There's an answer of some kind out there gotta keep trying different things.

:mad::mad::mad: I am so mad :mad::mad::mad:

I want my MARCH MADNESS!!!

Even though it still has to go through the House and President I'm still so very disappointed in our Legislators. This program's concept was about having a hard fast date (even though it has been pushed back a number of times).

How in the world is this going to benefit anyone. Why can't the gov't modify the program and issue rebates. Let consumers by the CECB and turn the UPC's in for a $40 rebate, or something other than delaying the transition date. With the thousands of PSA's being run, crawls, tests, and counters on every tv related website.

:mad: Idiots! :mad:

I came to this thread looking for the same answer. I'm guessing we'll hear from the handful of station engineers and techs who participate over the coming weeks.

I can't see a station changing its plans or having to budget for a new date.


Pull the plug and get it over already. I want to experiment forward modulating on some of the channels on VHF that will be gone into my master antenna system without spending bucks for -80db traps for those channels to block there incoming signal and adjacent channel interference.

Only a very low one, just enough to let the roof have some slope to shed rainwater and melting snow, with nothing in it except insulation.* An antenna there would work at least as well as the set-top antennas for our second-floor televisions do, but there's simply no room for one, no access to insert or adjust one, nor the existing wiring to the first-floor televisions that we already have from the basement ceiling.

When you say "no access", do you mean you literally cannot get into the attic? You don't have one of those square panels in your ceiling somewhere to get into it? Then again, maybe you do, otherwise, how would you know what it looks like? Can you at least get up there and stand hunched over?

My attic is pretty tall, I can easily stand up in it. It's not finished - just insulation, like you described, so I had to be careful to walk on the joists (or whatever they're called) so as to not put my foot through the drywall ceiling below. But I went up there several times before I decided to install an antenna there, scouting locations, making sketches, planning things. I really spent a long time trying to figure out how to run cable from the attic down to my basement. I wanted to go down between the outside wall of the house and the drywall, but could not figure out how to drill a hole where I needed to. I eventually decided to put a hole through the attic wall, and run cable outside the house, down into my basement through an existing hole, and over to my distribution point.

Once I had my plan, and the antenna, and the cable, connectors, etc., it took me basically the whole weekend to set everything up and get it working. It was September of 2007, I think, and it was still hot outside, so the attic was like an oven. I could only work up there for about 20 to 30 minutes before I needed a break.

I'm not even a "handy man" - I stink at home repair and maintenace stuff. But I was determined to get OTA somehow, so I just persisted until it got done.

Hey, nobody said this would be easy. And you've already found, as I have when I was researching this, that people willing to install an antenna for you in the Chicago area are very few and far between, and they charge what the market will bear.

I came to the conclusion that if I wanted it done right, I would have to do it myself. I'm glad I did.

:mad::mad::mad: I am so mad :mad::mad::mad:

SECOND!

Even though it still has to go through the House and President I'm still so very disappointed in our Legislators. This program's concept was about having a hard fast date (even though it has been pushed back a number of times).

How in the world is this going to benefit anyone.


That's what our COMPLETELY WORTHLESS congress just doesn't seem to get. Here's what's going to happen... They're going to take the SAME commercials that they've been running, apply some "video white out" to Feb 17th, and replace it with June/July whatever.

That's IT. And that's also why moving the date will make absolutely zero difference for the folks that can't/won't do anything about the DTV transition. Will moving the date:


... cause people who are in fringe areas all of a sudden not to be in a fringe area? NO!
... allow Grandpa and Grandma to understand the technology message better? NO!
... get any more money for the converter program? Probably not! (How many times have you seen a government program go UN-broke?)


So it's just stupid, stupid, and moronic to move the date at this point. Way to waste everyone's time and money, congress.


And now I have to figure out how the heck I'm going to put up a WBBM-specific antenna up. Oh fricken JOY, just so some idiots who don't want to do anything can feel coddled. :mad::mad::mad:

How about getting an apartment window type antenna that attaches to the windowsill.These connections are for the first-floor.  Indoor antennas are already doing the job well enough on the second floor, but the first-floor windows don't have such a good view through the trees and the other houses downtownward.

Flat roofs are the bomb especially if it has a door to walk on to it.Flat roofs have drainage problems when the snow melts, and support problems when snow accumulates.

When you say "no access", do you mean you literally cannot get into the attic? You don't have one of those square panels in your ceiling somewhere to get into it? Then again, maybe you do, otherwise, how would you know what it looks like? Can you at least get up there and stand hunched over?Yes, we have such a square panel, but one cannot stand up nor even hunch over inside there, only lie down.  As I said, it's just high enough to accommodate the slope of the roof.  Also, it's impossible to get a ladder directly under the access panel without major dismantling of everything below it and temporary littering of hallways with everything that must be moved out of the way.  Finally, there's also the impracticality of running cable from the attic's access door to the first-floor televisions.

Hey, nobody said this would be easy.Nope.  But I'd settle for affordable.  If only the Sprint Broadband Direct pizzabox could receive the frequencies used for ATSC (it's already aimed at Sears Tower, and the Hancock Center is 9º off), but I can lump that in with "if only the antenna had been wired with RG-6 instead of RG-59" and a few other wishes.

So thanks for the help, but so far I see no solution better than getting someone to go onto the roof and move the end of the RG-6 from the pizzabox to the TV antenna (or putting an antenna on the pizzabox's mast).

SECOND!




That's what our COMPLETELY WORTHLESS congress just doesn't seem to get. Here's what's going to happen... They're going to take the SAME commercials that they've been running, apply some "video white out" to Feb 17th, and replace it with June/July whatever.

That's IT. And that's also why moving the date will make absolutely zero difference for the folks that can't/won't do anything about the DTV transition. Will moving the date:


... cause people who are in fringe areas all of a sudden not to be in a fringe area? NO!
... allow Grandpa and Grandma to understand the technology message better? NO!
... get any more money for the converter program? Probably not! (How many times have you seen a government program go UN-broke?)


So it's just stupid, stupid, and moronic to move the date at this point. Way to waste everyone's time and money, congress.


And now I have to figure out how the heck I'm going to put up a WBBM-specific antenna up. Oh fricken JOY, just so some idiots who don't want to do anything can feel coddled. :mad::mad::mad:I hope all of you who feel this way are telling your congressmen/women and not just preaching to the choir. They sometimes listen to constituents when there is a groundswell of protest. (Sometimes! :rolleyes: )

I hope all of you who feel this way are telling your congressmen/women and not just preaching to the choir. They sometimes listen to constituents when there is a groundswell of protest. (Sometimes! :rolleyes: )

https://writerep.house.gov/writerep/welcome.shtml

https://writerep.house.gov/writerep/welcome.shtmlThanks. I should have included that link.

From TelevisionBroadcast.com:

http://www.televisionbroadcast.com/article/73626

ION will launch an HD feed of its main channel starting Feb. 16, a day before the ostensibly delayed DTV transition deadline. The HD version will initially roll out in 20 of ION’s 55 markets, including New York, Chicago, Detroit, Miami and Los Angeles, with remaining markets to be added throughout the year. The first phase of the roll-out will reach 46 million households, ION executives said.

ION’s diginets--kidnet Qubo and healthy lifestyle net ION Life--will also be launched in HD later this year.

ION TV also said this week its prime-time ratings grew last year by 67 percent. Since the network rebranded in the fall, its overall prime-time rating went from a 0.3 to a 0.5, which is still pretty skimpy, but moving in the right direction. ION aggressively invested in the network last year, acquiring new programming and supporting the mobile broadcast initiative.

The group’s 60 TV stations previously belonged to Paxson, which ran a heavy rotation of infomercials and paid programming. ION execs are trying to recast the net as an entertainment brand. Off-net shows acquired over the last year include “Boston Legal,” “NCIS” and “ER.” Two more, “Ghost Whisperer” and “Criminal Minds” will be added this year.

ION shares, (OTC: IION) doubled Jan. 9 from $1.50 to $3. The West Palm Beach, Fla. company has market capitalization of more than $205 million. ION reported operating income of $14.4 million on revenues of $56.5 million for the quarter ending Sept. 20.

---
Gilbert's note: we now also know that 38.2, 38.3 and 38.4 will remain the same.

I hope all of you who feel this way are telling your congressmen/women and not just preaching to the choir. They sometimes listen to constituents when there is a groundswell of protest. (Sometimes! :rolleyes: )

Good point. Although, I think there is way too much momentum to stop this anymore. Better still, write to your local station managers and them tell them you support the turn off of analog on February 17 as originally planned. Turning off analog now will make DTV reception better while allowing us to thumb our noses at congress.

A question about my situation. I live in Racine, WI which is located 58 miles North of the transmitters in Chicago.

Currently I am receiving all the major Chicago market stations (Other than WBBM) pretty easily with my DB4 + Motorola BDA-S1 amp. However with the transition I have WMVS (PBS 10 out of Milwaukee, real channel 8), WLS on 7 and aforementioned WBBM on 12 that I am unable to receive with my DB4. I am looking for a high VHF antenna solution (as compact as possible) to use in conjunction with my DB4 via a UHF/VHF signal combiner.

I'm currently considering building a VHF bow tie (or double bow tie) for the few dollars in parts as an experiment. Due to the fact that the antenna is mounted on my balcony length (front to back) is an issue, width/height isn't of great concern. I'm looking to either build or buy something that would meet my needs. Ideally this antenna will be mounted on my mast above the current DB4. If anyone else is in a similar situation I'd like to hear what has worked for you.

From TelevisionBroadcast.com:

ION’s diginets--kidnet Qubo and healthy lifestyle net ION Life--will also be launched in HD later this year.Where is a single OTA station going to find the bits to send out three HD channels?

Gilbert's note: we now also know that 38.2, 38.3 and 38.4 will remain the same.At least until Qubo and IonLife go to HD.

They'll be available in HD to cable and satellite. Not sure why they would carry those in HD, but...

I hope they do widescreen SD on them OTA. That would be nice.

- Trip

Not sure if anyone can answer this but for the past maybe half a year or so I've been picking up NBA TV on my QAM at 101-7. As of last week I'm no longer getting it, it's showing up as scrambled. Just wondering if I'm alone in this?

I hope all of you who feel this way are telling your congressmen/women and not just preaching to the choir. They sometimes listen to constituents when there is a groundswell of protest. (Sometimes! :rolleyes: )

I could wallpaper a room with all the "thanks for writing! Communication with constitutents is very important and blah blah blah, but the upshot is that I'm going to vote however I damn well feel like" letters I've received from Dick, Barack, and Jan!

Not sure if anyone can answer this but for the past maybe half a year or so I've been picking up NBA TV on my QAM at 101-7. As of last week I'm no longer getting it, it's showing up as scrambled. Just wondering if I'm alone in this?


You might want to ask this in the Chicago comcast thread. This is the chicago Over the Air thread (OTA)

I could wallpaper a room with all the "thanks for writing! Communication with constitutents is very important and blah blah blah, but the upshot is that I'm going to vote however I damn well feel like" letters I've received from Dick, Barack, and Jan!I know, but they do sometimes listen if there is enough commotion. One thing is certain, they won't respond if they don't hear from us. They can't read our minds. We have to tell them what we think, or the only input they get will be from lobbyists.

WLS reporting that the House has defeated the Senate bill delaying the DTV Transition

http://www.broadcastingcable.com/article/162898-DTV_Delay_Bill_Fails_To_Pass_In_House.php

thats is true the house fails to pass DTV Delay Bill here is the roll call vote

http://clerk.house.gov/evs/2009/roll041.xml

YAY lets get WBBM on 12 now :)

thats is true the house fails to pass DTV Delay Bill here is the roll call vote

http://clerk.house.gov/evs/2009/roll041.xml

Well I guess writing to my Congressman didn't help. Bill Foster was on the Yeas list. :mad:


YAY lets get WBBM on 12 now :)

:p Oh well, looks good for March Madness!!

Well I guess writing to my Congressman didn't help. Bill Foster was on the Yeas list. At least you have one.  The seat for my district is vacant.

Better still, write to your local station managers and them tell them you support the turn off of analog on February 17 as originally planned. Turning off analog now will make DTV reception better while allowing us to thumb our noses at congress.

Good idea. Why wait for February or June? Can a station shutdown their analog transmitter now if they wanted to?

I mean, put title cards on the analog channels tomorrow and run them solid for a week, then shutdown the analog transmitter altogether and be done with it. For the stations with digital transmitters built out (and not planning to move) isn't as simple as turning off the power sucking analog transmitter?

WLS reporting that the House has defeated the Senate bill delaying the DTV Transition

http://www.broadcastingcable.com/article/162898-DTV_Delay_Bill_Fails_To_Pass_In_House.php

Not quite defeated. It got over half the votes, but needed 2/3rds and failed. But enough people were thinking. Of course, the Senate will try again, so don't celebrate...they'll try again and likely get it through one way or another.

They'll try again and likely get it through one way or another.

Hopefully they won't have enough time.

Kirk voted against it. Woot. Guess I just have to contact Burris (heh) and Durbin, and tell them how they're screwing over all the poor people who don't own antennas, and can't get CBS.

Pull the plug already. There making too much out of this. People that don't have means to view digital will have to do without until they update there system. They had since Jan 1 st 2008 to apply for coupons. I applied for mine on the third and had no problems getting them. Converters have been in stores most of last year and these stupid people ignored it all, if you snooze you loose. People will not die without tv for a bit and will recover from this when they finally get a boot in the butt to do something instead of crying to the government about it. What's happened to the Americans and all this country stands for?

Good idea. Why wait for February or June? Can a station shutdown their analog transmitter now if they wanted to?

I mean, put title cards on the analog channels tomorrow and run them solid for a week, then shutdown the analog transmitter altogether and be done with it. For the stations with digital transmitters built out (and not planning to move) isn't as simple as turning off the power sucking analog transmitter?

Not really. Many digital stations rely on the analogs shutting down to increase power or to switch to another RF channel. The problem is you can't have 3 analogs staying on while the rest are solely digital. That would create even more confusion. This needs to be done at one time, as advertised for a few years now. The taxpayers have spent a large amount on an advertising campaign. Last I checked we are running a budget defecit and cannot afford any more procrastination fees. Stations have budgeted for 2/17 not 6/12. Whatever rockefeller or Obama want to do, it takes real cajones to pull a stunt like this off with 3 weeks to go. If they wanted a delay they should have thought about this in October, not late January.

This is sort of like somebody realizing they hadn't had enough taken out for taxes on April 1st so they get a group together to delay the tax filing date. The rules are pretty straight-forward and were known for some time in each case.

I doubt few in Congress truly care or even have any real understanding of this transition. Appearing to care about how grandma can't watch her stories on that 1986 Zenith with rabbit ears anymore is all that matters. That's far more important than all that technical coordination mumbo-jumbo. That technical stuff can be worked out. Your grandma's trauma on Feb 18th will last a lifetime.

Hopefully they won't have enough time...My hope too. I'd guess lack of time is why they tried an end around, which required a 2/3 majority. If it had been a "normal" vote, it would have passed, but the "normal" procedure would have required more time.

... Your grandma's trauma on Feb 18th will last a lifetime.Oh, I think we seniors can cope better than that! :p

Some of us are going to be confused at first, but the same ones would be just as confused in June.

Has anyone heard any news yet about Chicago-area stations that would still shut analog off on February 17 (or at any point before June 12) if the transition deadline is postponed?

This whole delay thing would irk me a lot less, selfish as this may sound, if it didn't mean keeping WBBM-DT mired on channel 3 until WTTW, WISN, and WILL all three finally feel like letting them move to channel 12.  I was really looking forward to the improvement in reception of WBBM-DT.

Has anyone heard any news yet about Chicago-area stations that would still shut analog off on February 17 (or at any point before June 12) if the transition deadline is postponed?

This whole delay thing would irk me a lot less, selfish as this may sound, if it didn't mean keeping WBBM-DT mired on channel 3 until WTTW, WISN, and WILL all three finally feel like letting them move to channel 12.* I was really looking forward to the improvement in reception of WBBM-DT.

The most important one would be for WTTW-TV 11 to sign off. That's a done deal. And that's a good thing: if PBS is gone, slackers will switch over quickly.

I found this list of stations and their FCC filings for when they are going to terminate analog service.

http://www.rabbitears.info/termlist.php

Unfortunately, I see only 2 Chicago stations WYCC and WMAQ in the listing. WISN in Milwaukee isnt there either. I assume the list is incomplete.

-dickm

I doubt few in Congress truly care or even have any real understanding of this transition. Appearing to care about how grandma can't watch her stories on that 1986 Zenith with rabbit ears anymore is all that matters. That's far more important than all that technical coordination mumbo-jumbo. That technical stuff can be worked out. Your grandma's trauma on Feb 18th will last a lifetime.What they really care most about is the uninterrupted flow of commercial advertisements getting to as many people as possible. Especially right now with the economy.

I found this list of stations and their FCC filings for when they are going to terminate analog service.

http://www.rabbitears.info/termlist.php

Unfortunately, I see only 2 Chicago stations WYCC and WMAQ in the listing. WISN in Milwaukee isnt there either. I assume the list is incomplete.

-dickm

WMAQ isn't on the list.

The list is incomplete to the extent that stations are still filing. I have everything the FCC has posted.

- Trip

That list should really be broken up via dma. It would make it easier to find stations that way.

That list should really be broken up via dma. It would make it easier to find stations that way.

If I had the time to do it, I would. However, I have four engineering classes all demanding more time than I have available. It's bad enough I'm procrastinating on here. :D

- Trip

A question about my situation. I live in Racine, WI which is located 58 miles North of the transmitters in Chicago.

Currently I am receiving all the major Chicago market stations (Other than WBBM) pretty easily with my DB4 + Motorola BDA-S1 amp. However with the transition I have WMVS (PBS 10 out of Milwaukee, real channel 8), WLS on 7 and aforementioned WBBM on 12 that I am unable to receive with my DB4. I am looking for a high VHF antenna solution (as compact as possible) to use in conjunction with my DB4 via a UHF/VHF signal combiner.

I'm currently considering building a VHF bow tie (or double bow tie) for the few dollars in parts as an experiment. Due to the fact that the antenna is mounted on my balcony length (front to back) is an issue, width/height isn't of great concern. I'm looking to either build or buy something that would meet my needs. Ideally this antenna will be mounted on my mast above the current DB4. If anyone else is in a similar situation I'd like to hear what has worked for you.

I can't quite picture your situation, but you might want to look at an Antennas Direct V4 Mk II. It's marketed as medium range low VHF antenna. I combine the V4 with a DB4 using a Channel Master 7777 pre-amp, and the combination works great in my attic 35 miles from the transmitters. You are farther away, but outdoors, so it might work for you. Bye-the-way, despite appearances, the V4 Mk II picks up UHF almost as well as the DB4.

Dan (Woj...)

WOCH will have a digital home. Earlier this week, the FCC approved WOCH to have a 15 kw signal on channel 49. It will have a sharp null to the north and northwest to protect 48 in Milwaukee, and some other 49 out east. But west, southwest, south, and near north suburbs should have an OK signal. When WOCH will sign it on is anyone's guess.

Thank you, Gilbert.

The most important one would be for WTTW-TV 11 to sign off. That's a done deal.Does "done deal" mean by February 17?  And can WBBM-DT move to 12 if WTTW-TV has signed off but WISN's and WILL's analogs are still going?

WOCH will have a digital home. Earlier this week, the FCC approved WOCH to have a 15 kw signal on channel 49.15 kW beats the heck out of the 130 W the original news about it said they'd have.It will have a sharp null to the north and northwest to protect 48 in Milwaukee, and some other 49 out east. But west, southwest, south, and near north suburbs should have an OK signal.If the null to the north-northwest dips in as close as Peterson Woods and Albany Park, there will be a lot of disappointed viewers, so let's hope you're right about the near north suburbs: if they're still inside the coverage, the aforementioned city neighborhoods will be as well.

Thank you, Gilbert.

Does "done deal" mean by February 17?* And can WBBM-DT move to 12 if WTTW-TV has signed off but WISN's and WILL's analogs are still going?

15 kW beats the heck out of the 130 W the original news about it said they'd have.If the null to the north-northwest dips in as close as Peterson Woods and Albany Park, there will be a lot of disappointed viewers, so let's hope you're right about the near north suburbs: if they're still inside the coverage, the aforementioned city neighborhoods will be as well.

Yes, WTTW-TV's transmitter equipment will be vacated on 2/17. AFAIK, unless things change, WTTW is signing off on 2/17. With the imminent postponement of the shutoff date, I don't know how it affects that contract. We also know for absolute certainty that WYCC-TV 20 is signing off on 2/17. They filed an STA to the FCC confirming it.

And no, if either WILL and WISN are still on, WBBM can't move.

Yes, WTTW-TV's transmitter equipment will be vacated on 2/17. AFAIK, unless things change, WTTW is signing off on 2/17. With the imminent postponement of the shutoff date, I don't knoww how it affects that contract. We also know for absolute sure that WYCC-TV 20 is signing off on 2/17. They filed an STA to the FCC confirming it.

And no, if either WILL and WISN are still on, WBBM can't move.


I dont see why WILL would be an issue as there service contore map doesnt even reach into the Chicago DMA. The only time it would be, would be during tropo, but WBBM should be safe. WISN on the other hand... Now thats a difffrent story.