I dont see why WILL would be an issue as there service contore map doesnt even reach into the Chicago DMA. The only time it would be, would be during tropo, but WBBM should be safe. WISN on the other hand... Now thats a difffrent story.

There are very strict interference rules with digital broadcasting, and even though it is very marginal at best, I'm guessing the FCC won't allow it. In either case, we'll see, but I'm more than betting on June for the switchover date. The House will vote on the delay bill probably on Wednesday, and it should easily pass with a 50%+ margin.

In either case, we'll see, but I'm more than betting on June for the switchover date. The House will vote on the delay bill probably on Wednesday, and it should easily pass with a 50%+ margin.

Is this different than the bill they voted down on Wednesday?

http://www.electronichouse.com/article/house_shoots_down_bill_to_delay_dtv_transition/

If you see this in the next 30 minutes, go to wgntv.com's (http://www.wgntv.com/) front page and vote NO for delaying the DTV transition.

Yes, I know, it doesn't mean squat. But neither, apparently, does talking to your representative.

If you see this in the next 30 minutes, go to wgntv.com's (http://www.wgntv.com/) front page and vote NO for delaying the DTV transition.

Yes, I know, it doesn't mean squat. But neither, apparently, does talking to your representative.

Already voted several times.

Already voted several times.Can't believe they allow multiple votes, but they seem to. I guess Chicago's Hometown Station also supports the city's most famous motto: Vote early and often! ;)

If you see this in the next 30 minutes, go to wgntv.com's (http://www.wgntv.com/) front page and vote NO for delaying the DTV transition.Thanks, Korn, lucked into seeing your post in time.

Yes, I know, it doesn't mean squat.  But neither, apparently, does talking to your representative.Especially when you don't have one.  I live in the fifth district, and the seat is vacant.  All we have are phone calls and junk mail from candidates who want to replace Rahm Emanuel.  Maybe I should ask each of them where he or she stands on the delay, not that the winner will be in Congress in time to vote on it.  Anyone favoring it or bragging "I don't even own a television" won't get my vote.

Edit: On second thought, there's no reason to bother.  Every single campaign worker answering any candidate's phone will eagerly chirp that the candidate supports the postponement, stupidly positive that that must be what I want to hear, and the sadder part is that I'm sure every single candidate does support it, stupidly positive that that must be what the constituents want.  Even the Republican candidates know that this is an overwhelmingly Democrat district and will assume that voters here want what the Democratic Party wants.

Yes, WTTW-TV's transmitter equipment will be vacated on 2/17.Are you positive that the deal specifies February 17, 2009, rather than referring to the shutoff date as such, and thus changing if the shutoff deadline changes?And no, if either WILL and WISN are still on, WBBM can't move.So until those two stations turn off their analog signals, WBBM-DT is stuck on channel 3 whether WTTW's analog signal is still going or not.

Are you positive that the deal specifies February 17, 2009, rather than referring to the shutoff date as such, and thus changing if the shutoff deadline changes?So until those two stations turn off their analog signals, WBBM-DT is stuck on channel 3 whether WTTW's analog signal is still going or not.

Yep, AFAIK, and...

True on the latter as well.

So neither 12 nor 11 will be in use here from February 18 until WISN and WILL both stop their analog signals, and WBBM-DT will remain stuck on 3.  Not good news in the Chicago market for analog-only viewers (loss of WTTW) nor for digital viewers (continued low-VHF problems for WBBM-DT).

And I suppose that WBBM's Nightlight commitment will keep them using channel 2 until July 12.

Thanks for the information, Gilbert.

If you see this in the next 30 minutes, go to wgntv.com's (http://www.wgntv.com/) front page and vote NO for delaying the DTV transition.Darn. Wish I knew about it before it was gone.

So until those two stations turn off their analog signals, WBBM-DT is stuck on channel 3 whether WTTW's analog signal is still going or not.Maybe we should petition those two channels to do so.

Can't believe they allow multiple votes, but they seem to. I guess Chicago's Hometown Station also supports the city's most famous motto: Vote early and often! ;)Helps if you're dead, too. :)

Maybe we should petition those two channels to do so.Would they give a rat's derrière what residents of another market want?  Maybe WBBM or CBS can apply some pressure (though they might not even if they can), but direct petitioning from residents of another market would go straight to the shredder.  If our eyeballs don't count in their ratings, our opinions don't count in their decisions.

Well, we could petition WBBM to try to coax WISN and WILL ...

Is this different than the bill they voted down on Wednesday?

http://www.electronichouse.com/article/house_shoots_down_bill_to_delay_dtv_transition/

So, is there going to be another vote? Maybe they can throw in a free buggy whip :rolleyes:

If you see this in the next 30 minutes, go to wgntv.com's (http://www.wgntv.com/) front page and vote NO for delaying the DTV transition.


Did you see the results of that poll???? :confused::confused::confused:

"Should the transition to digital television should be delayed? Yes: 62%, No: 38%"
http://www.wgntv.com/web_polls
Wow
And I voted a few times

First of all, you have to consider how most of Cook County leans politically, and secondly, I wouldn't be surprised if a lot of those people from the surrounding areas outside of the city are mistakenly thinking that their analog cable will stop on the 17th and they'll have to rent digital tuners.

good morning i love trip website at rabbitears.info you might want to check it out.I am wondering when will WMEU will become a low power digital station?i was talking to csr yesterday from directv and they kept asking me if i could get metoo via rabbit ears and i told her no because i live to far away about 100 miles southwest of chicago.The CSR wanted me to ask someone at Wiegel Broadcasting What Is The Coverage Range or how far does the signal goes out from wiegel.the csr also asked will wiegel be boosting their signal to metoo so directv can carry it.can someone answer these questions for me

Thanks

Allen

Talk about confusion.....Yesterday and last night I saw three Chicago newscasts run the story about the upcoming probable delay in the switch to digital. Then, within minutes the scrolls or slides about the digital switchover coming on February 18....you may lose your signal come up. It's no wonder everyone's so confused, heck, even I am now.

The GOP drove me out a long time ago, so I don't intend to be partisan, but this fiasco is a classic textbook example of governmental bungling of a relatively straightforward matter, even after years of preparation.

As for the poll, I have to wonder how many of the respondents truly understand the issue.

The GOP drove me out a long time ago, so I don't intend to be partisan, but this fiasco is a classic textbook example of governmental bungling of a relatively straightforward matter, even after years of preparation.

As for the poll, I have to wonder how many of the respondents truly understand the issue.

I doubt they do. Which is why this has far less to do with government than it does with Americas overall inability to understand and use technology. Aside from fixing the coupon program, which they could have easily done last December when it became apparent funds were going to run out, the only government bungling has been in messing with the transition date. They don’t even understand what they are trying to accomplish with this delay.

I doubt they do. Which is why this has far less to do with government than it does with Americas overall inability to understand and use technology. Since nearly 95% of American households are ready for the conversion (wittingly or not), I wouldn't blame the public at large as much as those who think more than that would ever be ready for any change. The fact that some viewers are unaware, and many are worried about a change that won't actually affect them (cable/sat viewers), may reflect an inadequate educational campaign, but couldn't have been unexpected. There few issues that are well understood by nearly everyone, and this is below the radar for most. Without a delay, on Feb 18 many, maybe most viewers will be blissfully unaware of the changeover, because they do not get their TV OTA anyway.
Aside from fixing the coupon program, which they could have easily done last December when it became apparent funds were going to run out, the only government bungling has been in messing with the transition date. They don’t even understand what they are trying to accomplish with this delay.Well, those are exactly the two points I had in mind, compounded by the confusion they are generating by changing (or not) the date at the last minute, after flooding the airwaves with messages specifying when the change is coming.

And most people who were paying attention were aware that there would be insufficient funds long before December.

Assuming that the digital date does get moved to June, would ABC have the freedom to move from 52 to 7 on Feb. 17? Or would there be some other station that could cause interference that would have to move first, thus they would be stuck there until everyone changes?

good morning i love trip website at rabbitears.info you might want to check it out.I am wondering when will WMEU will become a low power digital station?i was talking to csr yesterday from directv and they kept asking me if i could get metoo via rabbit ears and i told her no because i live to far away about 100 miles southwest of chicago.The CSR wanted me to ask someone at Wiegel Broadcasting What Is The Coverage Range or how far does the signal goes out from wiegel.the csr also asked will wiegel be boosting their signal to metoo so directv can carry it.can someone answer these questions for me

Thanks

Allen

Bluegras,
I have already answered your question about WMEU and when the digital side will sign on. Direct TV is more than capable of receiving MeToo via Fiber optic or via WCIU-DT 26.3. Despite what CSR's will tell you (and believe me they have no clue what they're talking about) Direct TV is not ready to carry MeToo. When they are ready, they'll contact us. Until that time there's nothing we can do to pursuade them. Only customer pressure will convince them that its worth carrying us.

you are right about the CSR's at directv some do not know what they are talking about.i kept explaining to the lady on the phone that Wiegel is willing and begging to directv to carry metoo and willing to give the channel to directv for free to add it to our local channel lineup.all she said is i can put on channel request.I also told her on the phone that i talked to Wiegel Broadcasting a couple days ago and i told her that they have thousands and thousands of emails and phone calls requesting that metoo being added to our lineup.time will tell what will happen all we can do is keep calling and emailing to directv.

Thanks

Allen

Assuming that the digital date does get moved to June, would ABC have the freedom to move from 52 to 7 on Feb. 17? Or would there be some other station that could cause interference that would have to move first, thus they would be stuck there until everyone changes?

That I do not know, and I am not speaking for WLS in any way here...but while it is possible, I'm guessing it is unlikely. Unless the big sttaions in the top markets start shutting down, you won't see it.

However, I *do* know WREX-DT on 54 in Rockford will go ahead and flash cut to rf 13. They don't have any interference from anyone they need to protect, even now...so swap-o-rama they go!

Were there some changed made to WCIU-DT recently? The FF/pause jittery picture problem on my Samsung is dramatically reduced if not gone. I didn't notice it while watching Svengoolie on Saturday or some of the reruns Friday.

I get my feed via Comcast. I did notice one night (Wed or Thu) that ThisTV had become 26-6 and FBT was 26-8. The next morning, the subchannels were back to normal and the jumping video was gone.

Were there some changed made to WCIU-DT recently? The FF/pause jittery picture problem on my Samsung is dramatically reduced if not gone. I didn't notice it while watching Svengoolie on Saturday or some of the reruns Friday.

I get my feed via Comcast. I did notice one night (Wed or Thu) that ThisTV had become 26-6 and FBT was 26-8. The next morning, the subchannels were back to normal and the jumping video was gone.

???? Not that I'm aware of.

these may seem like dumb questions, but i have been unable to find answers.
1. can you get comcast sports net over the air? -probably not i assume
2. can you record two shows at once over the air using a tivo hd or do you need to antennas?

any answers would be greatly appreciated. i am contemplating dropping cable altogether and just going over the air.

2. can you record two shows at once over the air using a tivo hd or do you need to antennas?

any answers would be greatly appreciated. i am contemplating dropping cable altogether and just going over the air.


You sure can. I dumped cable over a year ago and went with OTA only, using a Tivo HD. I couldn't be happier!

dan

Were there some changed made to WCIU-DT recently? The FF/pause jittery picture problem on my Samsung is dramatically reduced if not gone.Really? It was doing it noticably last night OTA during The Stooges on my Sony DVR's tuner, and that's not a cheapie like my CM-7000, and it usually never does it with the Sony.

It wasn't what I'd call majorly jerky, but it did have that sort of mildly broken, frame-missing, animated-like look to it. It was mostly noticible during certain scenes - it wasn't really constant.

In fact, I was just about to post that when I saw your comment.

You sure can. I dumped cable over a year ago and went with OTA only, using a Tivo HD. I couldn't be happier!Yes - definitely - get the TiVo - stay away from that terrible "DTV Pal DVR" - it's a total waste of $280. or so dollars in it's present state, if you ask me.

With the TiVo, it might be more expensive, but like with all electronics, you get what you pay for.

these may seem like dumb questions, but i have been unable to find answers.
1. can you get comcast sports net over the air? -probably not i assume
2. can you record two shows at once over the air using a tivo hd or do you need to antennas?

any answers would be greatly appreciated. i am contemplating dropping cable altogether and just going over the air.

Only one antenna is needed to be able to record two shows at once. And you have pointed out why everyone in chicagoland has some form of pay TV - local sports - there really should be a law to prevent that sort of thing. Obama to the rescue?

As an aside - the wpwr 50.1 / tivo guide duplication problems have been fixed.

thanks for the replies. yeah, might be tough to dump cable, i just finally moved to an area where i can actually watch the hawks and its nice the wirtz's finally put them on tv.

Well, somebody must be getting converter box coupons. I happened to walk by the Walmart electronics department today and noticed that the entire 4-shelf display rack was empty. The sales help didn't know when the boxes would be back in stock. They had no shortage of LCD TVs though.

I have to say, the Super Bowl looked wonderful today. I think NBC did a great job with it. And the Springsteen halftime show looked and sounded great too (except for one or two tiny audio dropouts). I didn't see the fast motion pixilation that I typically see with NBC sports. Wonder if they upped the bitrate for the game?

Really? It was doing it noticably last night OTA during The Stooges on my Sony DVR's tuner, and that's not a cheapie like my CM-7000, and it usually never does it with the Sony.

It wasn't what I'd call majorly jerky, but it did have that sort of mildly broken, frame-missing, animated-like look to it. It was mostly noticible during certain scenes - it wasn't really constant.

In fact, I was just about to post that when I saw your comment.

We know about Samsung's and the herky, jerkry action. Wasn't aware if we had made any changes or why our channel mapping went wacko.

Well, somebody must be getting converter box coupons. I happened to walk by the Walmart electronics department today and noticed that the entire 4-shelf display rack was empty. The sales help didn't know when the boxes would be back in stock. They had no shortage of LCD TVs though.


Don't be surprised on the absence of converter boxes now. Besides there down to crunch time they will keep there stock low so they can push new tv's instead (bigger profits).

We know about Samsung's and the herky, jerkry action.

Well, "herky jerky" is better than doing the "hokey pokey", I guess... :D

In other matters...mmmason, I think you already figured this out: there's no way to get Comcast SportsNet over the air. Sorry!

But WGN *is* carrying some of the Hawks games in HD.

I have to say, the Super Bowl looked wonderful today. I think NBC did a great job with it. And the Springsteen halftime show looked and sounded great too (except for one or two tiny audio dropouts). I didn't see the fast motion pixilation that I typically see with NBC sports. Wonder if they upped the bitrate for the game?

I actually had a bunch of micropiolation, but it was much better than it usally is. I ended up switching to one of the many wild feeds in HD. (40+Mbps) That was much much much better than what NBC 5 provided. If I was running WMAQ, I would have shut down the sub channels during the game and given it full bandwidth.

good morning i love trip website at rabbitears.info you might want to check it out.I am wondering when will WMEU will become a low power digital station?i was talking to csr yesterday from directv and they kept asking me if i could get metoo via rabbit ears and i told her no because i live to far away about 100 miles southwest of chicago.The CSR wanted me to ask someone at Wiegel Broadcasting What Is The Coverage Range or how far does the signal goes out from wiegel.the csr also asked will wiegel be boosting their signal to metoo so directv can carry it.can someone answer these questions for me

Thanks

Allen

Weigel carries MeToo on WCIU-DT 26-3. You won't get a better signal than that. If WMEU gets it's own LD transmitter you can expect coverage in the immediate Chicago area and possibly some closer to the city parts of the collar counties and that's it, similar to 23-1. Why isn't MeToo just carried on 23-2? How long will the DT simulcast on WCIU-DT last?

RF 39 is still too weak even after the power increase.
It is the only signal that is weakened at my splitter and fails to make it to the longer of two cable runs. The other regular stations don't exhibit a noticeable deficit and with the exception of WJYS, continue to be booming at all ends.

If they're going to discontinue the 26 simulcasts or relegate them to RF 39, there still needs to be more power. Is there any hope of WWME-LD matching the 15kw output after the analog shutoff?

early monday morning between about 1 am and 5 am there were many chicago locals off the air, in both analog & digital ....i didnt write them down but going from memory it was something like >

digital ch 5, 7, 9 and others? were gone.....

and in analog ch 26 and 38 and others? were gone for a few hours.....rf ch 38 looked like it had some 'digital hash' type noise on my analog tuner but when i checked rf ch 38 for a digital signal i found nothing....

i checked for a cbs digital signal on rf ch 12 around 1:30 am but found nothing ....

i'm guessing there must have been some coordinated tower and/or transmitter work going on in preparation for 2/17?

anyone have any details about what was going on?

these may seem like dumb questions, but i have been unable to find answers.
1. can you get comcast sports net over the air? -probably not i assume
2. can you record two shows at once over the air using a tivo hd or do you need to antennas?

any answers would be greatly appreciated. i am contemplating dropping cable altogether and just going over the air.

I cut the cable in early December. Bought a TivoHD Early January. One antenna in my attic. One line into the Tivo. It records on two channels.

Except for wishing I had ESPN and the SCIFi channel I'm quite happy with my current configuration. I'm recording more now than when I had a comcast DVR. The Tivo is far easier to use too. I just ordereded an external hard drive so I can start recording NASCAR races without overwriting my other recordings. A problem I constantly had with the Comcast DVR.

I got quite used to not seeing Hawks games on TV, so only watching them on WGN is not a big change for me. I guess I'm officially a Cubs only fan now too. Perhaps as more people cut the cord the sports teams will go back to OTA.

In other matters...mmmason, I think you already figured this out: there's no way to get Comcast SportsNet over the air. Sorry!

But WGN *is* carrying some of the Hawks games in HD.As far as the Bulls, who in their right mind would want to watch them anyway? Only a masochist, I suppose. :(

early monday morning between about 1 am and 5 am there were many chicago locals off the air, in both analog & digital ....i didnt write them down but going from memory it was something like >

digital ch 5, 7, 9 and others? were gone.....

and in analog ch 26 and 38 and others? were gone for a few hours.....rf ch 38 looked like it had some 'digital hash' type noise on my analog tuner but when i checked rf ch 38 for a digital signal i found nothing....

i checked for a cbs digital signal on rf ch 12 around 1:30 am but found nothing ....

i'm guessing there must have been some coordinated tower and/or transmitter work going on in preparation for 2/17?

anyone have any details about what was going on?

All UHF's on Sears need to go off last night for some work. I'm outta the loop on why.

I have to say, the Super Bowl looked wonderful today. I think NBC did a great job with it.

IMHO, it looked OK, but just OK. I noticed a lot of mpeg noise when the picture would hit the bandwidth wall. (Especially during Springsteen, since there were so many strobes and such going off.)

If I was running WMAQ, I would have shut down the sub channels during the game and given it full bandwidth.

I wish! But that would require WMAQ to give a crap about picture quality, which doesn't seem to be in their corporate culture.

As far as the Bulls, who in their right mind would want to watch them anyway?

<rim shot!> He's here all week folks... Don't forget to tip your waitresses!

As far as the Bulls, who in their right mind would want to watch them anyway? Only a masochist, I suppose. :(Ouch! But I guess you're right. One too many times seeing Ben Gordon refusing to pass the ball, and I finally gave up after years of watching every game. Too many other things to watch that don't cause me to shout at the set and scare my dog! ;)

Yeah, when it gets to that level of ineptitude, I can't watch any team, no matter how much I'm normally a fan of them. (I did warn some of you guys about them at the start of the season, but you refused to listen!)

As far as artifacts on NBC during the SB, I did see them at times here, too - usually during the extreme closeups. I sometimes wonder if these people who are saying they don't see these things when so many other people do aren't watching on pretty small TV's.

Hey I just wanted to let you all know Im buying you all breakfast at Denny's tommorow :D So stop by and get your free grandslam.

Hey I just wanted to let you all know Im buying you all breakfast at Denny's tommorow :D So stop by and get your free grandslam.

Kinda a long drive for me. Gonna need lunch too. :D

I sometimes wonder if these people who are saying they don't see these things when so many other people do aren't watching on pretty small TV's.

50" DLP viewed from my usual couch potato spot about 9' away. I usually see a fair amount of micropixilation on NBC. I didn't notice this during the SB. Could have been the beer goggles though. :D

Noticed that WCPX is now 720p on its main.
The subs are still SD, but it was nice to see the Steve Harvey Show without pixelation.

Noticed that WCPX is now 720p on its main.
The subs are still SD, but it was nice to see the Steve Harvey Show without pixelation.

For me, it still says 480i.

50" DLP viewed from my usual couch potato spot about 9' away. I usually see a fair amount of micropixilation on NBC. I didn't notice this during the SB. Could have been the beer goggles though. :DYou're not cheating and using something like an Algolith Mosquito noise reduction unit, are you? ;)

For me, it still says 480i.

Same here.. It is indeed 480I

Can anyone confirm if the audio is out of sync on the Bulls game on 26-1? Or is it just my tv setup? It appears that the audio is a fraction of a second behind the video.

I'll check before the night is out.. I'm planning on viewing the game an hour or two behind live so that I can fast forward as I'm watching.

For me, it still says 480i.

Unless my box was trippin'...it did come in 720P at 5:30, but when I switched back by the time Boston Legal came on at 7, it was already back to SD. Go figure. Either I was hallucinating or they might have been testing for the upcoming switch.

Can anyone confirm if the audio is out of sync on the Bulls game on 26-1? Or is it just my tv setup? It appears that the audio is a fraction of a second behind the video.It's probably the Bulls that are out of synch more than anything. (pa-dar-ump).

Unless my box was trippin'...it did come in 720P at 5:30, but when I switched back by the time Boston Legal came on at 7, it was already back to SD. Go figure. Either I was hallucinating or they might have been testing for the upcoming switch.

You're not hallucinating.

As captured by SiliconDust: http://img.lineupui.silicondust.com/snapshots/48/snapshot_8353848.jpg

- Trip

Thanks for confirming what I thought I saw.

Seemed kinda odd that ION would go back to 480i for its prime time unless they were testing. I wonder if they will carry the Boston Legal and NCIS reruns et al in the widescreen once they finalize the HD. It would be a waste if that resolution was used only for upconverted 4:3 stuff. And with the three subs looking like garbage as it is, I can't imagine anything other than the main channel at 720P.

As captured by SiliconDust: http://img.lineupui.silicondust.com/snapshots/48/snapshot_8353848.jpg
Sorry, Trip, but I don't understand what that screenshot proves.  It's a pillarboxed 4:3 display of 4:3 material on a 16:9 screen, just exactly as an SD broadcast would appear.

Sorry, Trip, but I don't understand what that screenshot proves.* It's a pillarboxed 4:3 display of 4:3 material on a 16:9 screen, just exactly as an SD broadcast would appear.

An SD broadcast would have no sidebars. ;)

- Trip

Compare to this newer pic, also from SiliconDust: http://img.lineupui.silicondust.com/snapshots/98/snapshot_8357998.jpg

- Trip

An SD broadcast would have no sidebars.You mean it would be horizontally stretched to fill the 16:9 screen (yecch)?  We couldn't possibly know that the screenshot was taken of a display that was set that way.  Thank you for explaining.

What is happening with WTTW-D? I have not watched it for a few days, but last night I did not get the normal yellow-orange WTTW-D "commercial" screen, but the blue analog version. The program I happen to tune in was not WS so I was not sure what I getting. IIRC it did not indicate D or HD on the screen, but my TV did confirm it was 720p, 16:9.

You mean it would be horizontally stretched to fill the 16:9 screen (yecch)?* We couldn't possibly know that the screenshot was taken of a display that was set that way.* Thank you for explaining.

No, I mean it would be in 4:3. ION has been (and currently is) shown in 4:3 480i. That screencap was taken in 16:9 720p, even if it was upconverted.

- Trip

Hey guys,

I lost all Chicago DT stations at about 02:56 AM, except WGBO-DT.

Any idea if this is a planned outage, or is there something more sinister at play?

:eek:

At least WTMJ and WITI come in now!

:p

You're not cheating and using something like an Algolith Mosquito noise reduction unit, are you? ;)

I could use that on my bushes during the summer. :D

Can anyone confirm if the audio is out of sync on the Bulls game on 26-1? Or is it just my tv setup? It appears that the audio is a fraction of a second behind the video.

Very possbile. Truck was having audio problems at the beginning of the game.

Hey guys,

I lost all Chicago DT stations at about 02:56 AM, except WGBO-DT.

Any idea if this is a planned outage, or is there something more sinister at play?

:eek:

At least WTMJ and WITI come in now!

:p

Planned outage. Got woken up at 1:30am for it. :(

CSPAN will be broadcasting the DTV Transtion Bill at 9AM Central here where i live

CSPAN will be broadcasting the DTV Transtion Bill at 9AM Central here where i live

I find it ironic that the coverage about OTA's future is only available on cable and satellite.

- Trip

No, I mean it would be in 4:3. ION has been (and currently is) shown in 4:3 480i. That screencap was taken in 16:9 720p, even if it was upconverted.(Of course it was upconverted at some point; "The Steve Harvey Show" was not produced in HD.)

I still don't understand.  How can we tell from the screencap that the pillar bars were added by the station and received by the TV as part of a 16:9 image in the signal, rather than having been left black by the television because a signal with a 4:3 image filled only the middle?

(Of course it was upconverted at some point; "The Steve Harvey Show" was not produced in HD.)

I still don't understand.* How can we tell from the screencap that the pillar bars were added by the station and received by the TV as part of a 16:9 image in the signal, rather than having been left black by the television because a signal with a 4:3 image filled only the middle?

Because SiliconDust doesn't add sidebars. Here:

http://www.silicondust.com/hdhomerun/lineupui?Cmd=LocationProgramsWeb&Country=US&Postcode=60601

It lists off the resolutions and shows the screencaps. It's automated and takes new screencaps every few hours, so the HD test is now gone from the list, but it stated 1280x720p when I was there yesterday.

- Trip

Because SiliconDust doesn't add sidebars.Oh.  Thank you for explaining at last.  Is that something that the general readership of AVS Forum is expected to know?

Many AVS Forum readers know about this, because it has to do with Home Theater PC's.

Silicondust makes HDHomerun Tuners that hook up to your computer so you can record HD via OTA and QAM. The tuners are ethernet devices that hook up to your computer over the network.

The images on that site are screen captures directly from the tuners of QAM or OTA TV that regularly update to silicondust's servers and help users setting up their HDHomeruns configure them and helps engineers see the performance of them and potential buyers see what's being received in their market.

Their tuner is just so popular that you can see most zip codes.

who do you think some of the chicago stations will turn off their analog signal on feb 17th?

House passes Digital TV Delay bill

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2009/02/04/AR2009020402584.html?hpid=topnews

Suck :(

4 more months of low band VHF CBS hell. Joy!

Thats it Im overthrowing the government!

On the flipp side, who cares about the fcc, if was wbbm i would interfere with them all and blast that signal out at 1MW :D In the words of our former governer Blaggo. F em! :D

Thats it Im overthrowing the government!

On the flipp side, who cares about the fcc, if was wbbm i would interfere with them all and blast that signal out at 1MW :D In the words of our former governer Blaggo. F em! :D

What I don't understand is how the heck did this become a partisan issue?

Some things being partisan issues make sense to me, but this one is an oddball.

What is happening with WTTW-D? I have not watched it for a few days, but last night I did not get the normal yellow-orange WTTW-D "commercial" screen, but the blue analog version. The program I happen to tune in was not WS so I was not sure what I getting. IIRC it did not indicate D or HD on the screen, but my TV did confirm it was 720p, 16:9.
WTTW 11.1 is no longer separate programming from WTTW 11.2 (or the analog.) SD material is now upconverted.

Personally, I find the new morphing HD logo annoying. Why oh Why do channels have to constantly annoy you every 30 seconds??

Oh.* Thank you for explaining at last.* Is that something that the general readership of AVS Forum is expected to know?

Most folks I've run into are aware of it, plus I thought the newer picture I linked to in 4:3 would have made the point.

Sorry that took so long. :o

- Trip

I thought I'd share my experience setting up this converter box this past weekend.

My parents live in Franklin Park, a couple of miles SE of O'Hare airport. They have a small portable TV - maybe a 12" or 13" screen - on their second floor that they bought the converter box for, but were having difficulty getting it working at all, so they asked if I could come take a look at it.

So once I got there, I fixed the problem with the connections they had made, and did a channel scan. All local Chicago channels came in - except for WWME, and our favorite whipping boy, WBBM-DT.

The signal on all the other channels was roughly in the 80 to 90 percent range on the signal meter. So I thought about it for a minute, and decided to try something - the antenna they had was just a set of rabbit ears that came with the TV - not even a UHF loop on it. It was connected to the converter box by about 12" to 18" of 300 ohm twin lead, then one of those 300 ohm to 75 ohm converter things, then to the converter box. The antenna elements themselves weren't extended all the way, and were sticking up, in the shape of the letter V, roughly. I tried re-arranging the antenna, to extend the elements all the way out, and flatten them out horizontally, more like a dipole, with the elements pointing roughly north and south.

When I re-scanned all the channels with the re-configured antenna, this time it got WBBM at about 70 to 80 percent signal, and no breakup on the picture. I thought it was pretty good for an un-amped set of rabbit ears, although the location had some advantages - second floor, right against the outside wall of the house facing east, only about 12 miles from the Hancock and Sears Tower.

The Zenith receiver is nice - it has a combo visual / audio signal meter, which you can use to aim the antenna while your away from the set. The guide is much nicer than I have on my LCD panel at home, much more like a guide you find on a cable or satellite settop box. And there are nice options for picture output format - 4:3, 16:9, etc.

Trip, 155 ... OK, thanks.  On any future occasions where someone refers to a screenshot from that site, those of us who read these last few posts will know.

What I don't understand is how the heck did this become a partisan issue?

Some things being partisan issues make sense to me, but this one is an oddball.

http://arstechnica.com/tech-policy/news/2009/02/issa-invokes-clearwire-conflict-wants-to-halt-dtv-delay-bill.ars

update: the dems denyed this request and the bill passes with a simple majority and is headed to the white house for signature.

Did I read this right?
http://www.rabbitears.info/termlist.php

WGN to terminate analog on the 17th? If so, BRAVO!

Did I read this right?
http://www.rabbitears.info/termlist.php

WGN to terminate analog on the 17th? If so, BRAVO!

They've filed the notice that they want to. Whether or not they will is up in the air.

- Trip

Chief Engineer: So our microwave signal went out because of acorn?
HVS10TRK: Yes, sir!
Chief Engineer: So how can an organization take out a microwave signal?
HVS10TRK: Um, it's not what you think...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Mdm12KONMBA

Anytime a dropout happens, HVS, show your boss this video! :p :D

Another term for the handbook - Acorn Fade. Gotta love it.

http://www.rabbitears.info/termlist.php!

Thanks for the link. I was curious.

So basically, this is a money thing. Smaller markets are dumping their analog signals and larger markets (LA, New York, Chicago) mostly are not, with the exception of some companies that are in poor financial condition.

They've filed the notice that they want to. Whether or not they will is up in the air.

Last night they were still heavily running the 2/17 conversion commercials, so if I were betting, I'd say so.

I hope they change on the 17th! I was planning on buying all the equipment I'd need AFTER the shift so I only had to set everything up once...

George,

Where did they get it? Everywhere I look for it or the dtt901 they are out of stock.

First, please forget about the original and all revisions of my now deleted post #15750505; I'm going to try again from scratch.

Now, as I understand from other posts on AVS Forum, the FCC's intended regulations for the delay at http://hraunfoss.fcc.gov/edocs_public/attachmatch/FCC-09-6A1.pdf say that any station terminating analog broadcasts before June 12 must keep its digital signal where it was before February 17 unless it gets an STA ("special temporary authority"?) to do otherwise.

[I'm depending on other AVS Forum posts for that: the actual document is too much for me to slog through, especially at this hour of the night.]

WGN and WYCC have been planning to stop their analog broadcasts as of February 17.  Let's suppose that they go through with that (the new rules add extra requirements for doing that and discuss the case where the FCC makes a station continue or even resume analog broadcasts).

Instead of waiting for WISN and WILL to clear the decks for channel 12, could WBBM request an STA to broadcast its digital signal on channel 9 or channel 20?  The existing transmitters for 9 and 20 are on Hancock, but getting off VHF-low would still be an improvement.  (Maybe another station in an adjacent market is waiting for 9 or 20, though, or maybe the regulatory paperwork would be too messy.)  Perhaps that could even become WBBM-DT's permanent physical channel.

Another possibility (at least, not ruled out by anything I know, which isn't much when it comes to this) would be to retune the transmitter that WBBM is getting from WTTW to channel 9 instead of channel 12 and to use it once WGN's analog signal is dark, with FCC approval of the STA of course.

If there are technological, financial, or regulatory impediments that make the whole notion ludicrous, please state so unemotionally.

First, please forget about the original and all revisions of my now deleted post #15750505; I'm going to try again from scratch.

Now, as I understand from other posts on AVS Forum, the FCC's intended regulations for the delay at http://hraunfoss.fcc.gov/edocs_public/attachmatch/FCC-09-6A1.pdf say that any station terminating analog broadcasts before June 12 must keep its digital signal where it was before February 17 unless it gets an STA ("special temporary authority"?) to do otherwise.

[I'm depending on other AVS Forum posts for that: the actual document is too much for me to slog through, especially at this hour of the night.]

WGN and WYCC have been planning to stop their analog broadcasts as of February 17.* Let's suppose that they go through with that (the new rules add extra requirements for doing that and discuss the case where the FCC makes a station continue or even resume analog broadcasts).

Instead of waiting for WISN and WILL to clear the decks for channel 12, could WBBM request an STA to broadcast its digital signal on channel 9 or channel 20?* The existing transmitters for 9 and 20 are on Hancock, but getting off VHF-low would still be an improvement.* (Maybe another station in an adjacent market is waiting for 9 or 20, though, or maybe the regulatory paperwork would be too messy.)* Perhaps that could even become WBBM-DT's permanent physical channel.

Another possibility (at least, not ruled out by anything I know, which isn't much when it comes to this) would be to retune the transmitter that WBBM is getting from WTTW to channel 9 instead of channel 12 and to use it once WGN's analog signal is dark, with FCC approval of the STA of course.

If there are technological, financial, or regulatory impediments that make the whole notion ludicrous, please state so unemotionally.

I don't see channel 2 using channel 9 or 20's vacated analog channel. To much cost, red tape, and work involved. The plan is already set up for channel 12 and it will go through eventually. The delay of the transition is a joke and I wouldn't doubt that the don't try to delay it again in June. You should look at the bright side. Although you have problems seeing channel 3 digital you can still watch the analog channel two till the switch.

Trying to use 9 or 20 would be way too much red tape. I sincerely doubt anything's changing until the transition. CBS could have leased bandwidth from another broadcaster (like WJYS) if they'd wanted to improve their signal that badly.

- Trip

The following is from today's Chicago Tribune:

Television networks CBS Corp., Walt Disney Co.'s ABC, News Corp.'s Fox, and General Electric Co.'s NBC and Telemundo Group Inc. agreed to maintain analog signals on stations they own until the new June 12 deadline for changing from the traditional format, Michael Copps, acting chairman of the Federal Communications Commission, said Thursday. The switch had been set for Feb. 17.

The House gave final congressional passage Wednesday to legislation delaying the date when major TV stations must stop using analog signals.

Based on the information above I would have to think that WPWR will wait as it is owned by Fox.

It will be interesting to see what other stations do that are not listed.

George,

Where did they get it? Everywhere I look for it or the dtt901 they are out of stock.

Have you tried eBay? I've bought several from there.

Trying to use 9 or 20 would be way too much red tape.

To much cost, red tape, and work involved.

So the regulatory logistics would be the biggest roadblock.  OK.

Although you have problems seeing channel 3 digital you can still watch the analog channel two till the switch.

Actually, I get WBBM-DT on channel 3 much better than WBBM-TV on channel 2 almost all the time, but sometimes it vanishes for minutes or even hours (and so does WWME-LD).

Obama's white house website is opening up comments before signing the DTV delay bill into law. I HIGHLY encourage all of us who abhore this idea to submit our comments. be sure to mention WBBM's issue also.
http://www.whitehouse.gov/briefing_room/dtv_delay_act/

Done!

Instead of waiting for WISN and WILL to clear the decks for channel 12, could WBBM request an STA to broadcast its digital signal on channel 9 or channel 20?* The existing transmitters for 9 and 20 are on Hancock, but getting off VHF-low would still be an improvement.* (Maybe another station in an adjacent market is waiting for 9 or 20, though, or maybe the regulatory paperwork would be too messy.)* Perhaps that could even become WBBM-DT's permanent physical channel.

Another possibility (at least, not ruled out by anything I know, which isn't much when it comes to this) would be to retune the transmitter that WBBM is getting from WTTW to channel 9 instead of channel 12 and to use it once WGN's analog signal is dark, with FCC approval of the STA of course.

If there are technological, financial, or regulatory impediments that make the whole notion ludicrous, please state so unemotionally.

There are. :D Here's why:

On channels 9 and 11, you MUST protect WWTO-DT in Ottawa on channel 10 from adjacent channel interference. That's why, in WBBM's original plan, they could only get 1.08 kw on channel 11. On channel 9, they would be limited to same.

But you think: Wait. WGN-TV analog is there! So why can't the digital go there? Stricter dial placement/adjacent channel/transmitter location rules.

Obama's white house website is opening up comments before signing the DTV delay bill into law. I HIGHLY encourage all of us who abhore this idea to submit our comments. be sure to mention WBBM's issue also.
http://www.whitehouse.gov/briefing_room/dtv_delay_act/

Done here as well!

WCHU-LD has asked for 15 kw instead of 100 watts on channel 44 after 44 turns off their analog transmitter. That station would be a proverbial blowtorch for that station, omnidirectional in all areas except towards western Michigan to protect a digital 44 there. You would get them as far west as Aurora (and if WCIU is any indicator, out to DeKalb), into far southeastern Wisconsin, and northwest Indiana.

George,

Where did they get it? Everywhere I look for it or the dtt901 they are out of stock.

They got it at a local shop, named Sound Unlimited, on Grand Avenue in Franklin Park. No website, but you can google for their exact address and phone number.

Commented as well, I'm very annoyed at this delay. At least on paper it seems more likeley that I might be able to get usable OTA reception post transition. I could really use to save some money right now and drop cable, but NO I have to wait at least four more months.

Obama's white house website is opening up comments before signing the DTV delay bill into law. I HIGHLY encourage all of us who abhore this idea to submit our comments. be sure to mention WBBM's issue also.
http://www.whitehouse.gov/briefing_room/dtv_delay_act/

Interesting, how come WWME on 39 can't get 15 kw when these other low powers can like WMEU and WOCH and I thought Ch. 34 as well.

Interesting, how come WWME on 39 can't get 15 kw when these other low powers can like WMEU and WOCH and I thought Ch. 34 as well.

We're affected by WQRF-TV from Rockford. Digital power outputs work slightly different than analog power outputs.

Obama's white house website is opening up comments before signing the DTV delay bill into law. I HIGHLY encourage all of us who abhore this idea to submit our comments. be sure to mention WBBM's issue also.
http://www.whitehouse.gov/briefing_room/dtv_delay_act/

Got my 2 cents in.

Obama's white house website is opening up comments before signing the DTV delay bill into law. I HIGHLY encourage all of us who abhore this idea to submit our comments. be sure to mention WBBM's issue also.
http://www.whitehouse.gov/briefing_room/dtv_delay_act/

I sent my comments. I used my real name and address too. Now all I have to do is just sit here and wait for my IRS audit. :rolleyes:

On channels 9 and 11, you MUST protect WWTO-DT in Ottawa on channel 10 from adjacent channel interference.Good point, as was the one posted by TVRopro and Trip in Virginia earlier, and theirs also explains why WBBM-DT couldn't take over channel 20 either.

Obama's white house website is opening up comments before signing the DTV delay bill into law. I HIGHLY encourage all of us who abhore this idea to submit our comments. be sure to mention WBBM's issue also.
http://www.whitehouse.gov/briefing_room/dtv_delay_act/

Just left my comment. Thanks for the link.

WCHU-LD has asked for 15 kw instead of 100 watts on channel 44 after 44 turns off their analog transmitter. That station would be a proverbial blowtorch for that station, omnidirectional in all areas except towards western Michigan to protect a digital 44 there. You would get them as far west as Aurora (and if WCIU is any indicator, out to DeKalb), into far southeastern Wisconsin, and northwest Indiana.Oh, boy - I'm thrilled to the bone.

Now all I have to do is learn Spanish.

WGN-tv is running promo spots with june 12, 2009 as the DTV cutover date

WGN-tv is running promo spots with june 12, 2009 as the DTV cutover date
:eek: :mad:

WGN-tv is running promo spots with June 12, 2009 as the DTV cutover dateThat's the date at http://www.wgntv.com/dtv as well.  So much for their shutting analog off next week.

Milwaukee 4,6,10,12,36,41 and 58 will keep the analog going if the bill is sign by the President and 24 and 30 will cease analog on the 2-17-09 and 18 will soon after 2-17-09. Can't remember which station I think 24 if they have to keep the analog going until 6-12-09 they will have to spend $50,000. to fix the analog transmitter alone as they are down to 1 tube.

Did you see the poll on engadget?

http://www.engadgethd.com/2009/02/07/poll-do-you-agree-with-the-dtv-transition-delay/

Look how many people want the delay.

Milwaukee 4,6,10,12,36,41 and 58 will keep the analog going if the bill is sign by the President and 24 and 30 will cease analog on the 2-17-09 and 18 will soon after 2-17-09. Can't remember which station I think 24 if they have to keep the analog going until 6-12-09 they will have to spend $50,000. to fix the analog transmitter alone as they are down to 1 tube.I won't be surprised to see more useless subchannels than ever full of commercials popping up now to pay for these extra costs. :rolleyes:

talk about a mess!

I won't be surprised to see more useless subchannels than ever full of commercials popping up now to pay for these extra costs. :rolleyes:

4 has 1 sub 24/7 weather channel , 6,12 don't have subs and 58 has 2 subs, 58-1 WDJT CBS, 58-2 WMLW 41 I belive and 58-3 is ThisTv. So not much for the subchannel to make up for extra cost in running the analog and digtial power.

Did you know that WTMJ-4 is the nation's first application for a commercial television license in 1938 but did not began to broadcast on 4 until 1947, only aired for 20 hours a week. The call sign stand for The Milwaukee Journal. In 1948 Federal freeze new licences for almost 5 years, then WVTV-18 started in 1953, WISN-12 started in 1954, WITI-6 started in 1956. WMVS-10 MPT started in 1957, WCGV-24 started in 1980 and WDJT-58 started in 1988. If anyone remember the " Albert the Alley Cat that help to forcast the weather was on the air for 16 years on WITI-6. So it would be something if WTMJ is the last commercial station to sign off analog.

With the return of Daylight Saving Time a month away, we're getting the confused PSIP settings again.

Last November, after DST ended, WGBO, WXFT, and WJYS stubbornly kept their DST flags on, at least until I stopped checking in mid-December.  Now WGBO's and WXFT's are properly off, and I cannot receive WJYS-DT to tell how theirs is.

But WBBM, WLS, WGN, WTTW, and WSNS have theirs on already, and unless your tuner is overriding the station's DST flag, their clocks display as one hour fast.

Last I looked on Sunday evening, the other ATSC stations that I receive had it right, but I can't receive WWTO, WYIN, nor WJYS (no need to add -DT to those, since I can't get their analog signals either) to check on theirs.

If anyone else looks into it, be sure you have your tuner set to use the DST flag in the station's PSIP stream.  The three TVs I have with ATSC tuners and two of the four CECBs I own all ignore it, so I have to use one of the other two CECBs to find out.

With the return of Daylight Saving Time a month away, we're getting the confused PSIP settings again.

Last November, after DST ended, WGBO, WXFT, and WJYS stubbornly kept their DST flags on, at least until I stopped checking in mid-December.* Now WGBO's and WXFT's are properly off, and I cannot receive WJYS-DT to tell how theirs is.

But WBBM, WLS, WGN, WTTW, and WSNS have theirs on already, and unless your tuner is overriding the station's DST flag, their clocks display as one hour fast.

Last I looked on Sunday evening, the other ATSC stations that I receive had it right, but I can't receive WWTO, WYIN, nor WJYS (no need to add -DT to those, since I can't get their analog signals either) to check on theirs.

If anyone else looks into it, be sure you have your tuner set to use the DST flag in the station's PSIP stream.* The three TVs I have with ATSC tuners and two of the four CECBs I own all ignore it, so I have to use one of the other two CECBs to find out.

I am really convinced that these stations have complete idiots that know nothing about their trade running their equipment. I have had set top boxes for four years now and they still can't operate their equipment. I remember the second box I got, the Radio Shack Accurian, and Radio Shack had an insert on bright red(maybe yellow) paper warning you to set the clock manually and not use the auto setting. They knew back then what idiots ran these stations.

Could someone clarify the difference in channels I would receive with a QAM tuner versus an ATSC one. I am in downtown Chicago and just purchased a Pinnacle Pro HDTV stick. It does not include a QAM tuner. I do receive about 20 channels including every local channel but CBS. If I upgrade to the newer stick it has the QAM tuner. Would that give me a larger selection? I am unclear what "unencrypted digital channels" means.

I know some of you guys do some dx-ing and was wondering what kind of stations you're getting.
Last night, I did a channel scan (for various reasons) and came up with a plethora of new channels.
I picked up 58-1 Milwaukee (CBS-not sure the call sign) 55-1 Milwaukee (ABC) WQAD-TV (Moline -Quad Cities) on analog 8. Had a 6-1 I think was from Milwaukee and 18-1

I just thought it was funny. I can get CBS from Milwaukee but not Chicago. Can some of you guys pick up 58-1 on a regular basis or was that just good troposhpere?

I ask because I was considering upgrading my antenna, then I wasn't, but I bought a new TV and yad da yad da. yad da...

So can you pick up Milwaukee CBS on a regular basis or for that matter Rockford? I would really like to get the NCAA tourney coming up and with this DTV delay, I'm not gonna get it from WBBM.

BTW - my current antenna is an RCA walmart "digital HDTV" antenna I bought 3-4 years ago when I bought my first HDTV. I lived in the Quad Cities in an apartment and it worked pretty good, but if I can upgrade and get other markets...I'm all for it. :D Thanks

Could someone clarify the difference in channels I would receive with a QAM tuner versus an ATSC one. I am in downtown Chicago and just purchased a Pinnacle Pro HDTV stick. It does not include a QAM tuner. I do receive about 20 channels including every local channel but CBS. If I upgrade to the newer stick it has the QAM tuner. Would that give me a larger selection? I am unclear what "unencrypted digital channels" means.QAM enables the tuner to recieve direct reception of unencrypted digital cable channels without the use of the cable company's set-top box. It is not used for OTA, so you aren't missing anything.

QAM enables the tuner to recieve direct reception of unencrypted digital cable channels without the use of the cable company's set-top box. It is not used for OTA, so you aren't missing anything.

Thanks for the response. I'll stick with what I have then.

I am really convinced that these stations have complete idiots that know nothing about their trade running their equipment.I am truly convinced that the broadcast industry has regulations against an engineer's knowing anything about programming (programming in the sense of laying out the station's broadcast schedule, not in the sense of coding computers) and against a programmer's knowing anything about engineering.  The current time of day is the business of the programming department, so engineering won't get involved.

I know it's not on the air yet, but have a couple questions.

Any idea when it might sign on?
Looking at the FCC site recently, it showed a change to CP and now the signal doesn't really go east at all towards NW Indiana, before it seemed a little more omnidirectional. Does the 46 in South Bend have anything to do with it even though their digital is on 48?

I know it's not on the air yet, but have a couple questions.

Any idea when it might sign on?
Looking at the FCC site recently, it showed a change to CP and now the signal doesn't really go east at all towards NW Indiana, before it seemed a little more omnidirectional. Does the 46 in South Bend have anything to do with it even though their digital is on 48?

Yes. WHME recently received permission to put their digital on channel 46.

- Trip

I know it's not on the air yet, but have a couple questions.

Any idea when it might sign on?
Looking at the FCC site recently, it showed a change to CP and now the signal doesn't really go east at all towards NW Indiana, before it seemed a little more omnidirectional. Does the 46 in South Bend have anything to do with it even though their digital is on 48?

No idea. Pattern probably changed to protect South Bend.

I am truly convinced that the broadcast industry has regulations against an engineer's knowing anything about programming (programming in the sense of laying out the station's broadcast schedule, not in the sense of coding computers) and against a programmer's knowing anything about engineering. The current time of day is the business of the programming department, so engineering won't get involved.

I noticed as others mentioned that many of the channels are now showing 1 hour fast. I was going to try contacting the stations again, but remembered the no response or replies telling me it was my equipment when they were screwed up in the fall too. I suppose it will all correct itself in a month or so.

I just did a dtv station search for Chicago from the fcc data base and this is what i found.




WBBM-TV Full (TV/DT) 2 Operating 3 Operating CBS BROADCASTING INC. CHICAGO
WCIU-TV Full (TV/DT) 26 Operating 27 Operating WCIU-TV LIMITED PARTNERSHIP CHICAGO
WCPX Full (TV/DT) 38 Operating 43 Operating PAXSON CHICAGO LICENSE, INC. CHICAGO
WFLD Full (TV/DT) 32 Operating 31 Operating FOX TELEVISION STATIONS, INC. CHICAGO
WGBO-TV Full (TV/DT) 66 Operating 53 Operating WGBO LICENSE PARTNERSHIP, G.P. JOLIET
WGN-TV Full (TV/DT) 19 Not Operating 19 Operating WGN CONTINENTAL BROADCASTING COMPANY CHICAGO
WJYS Full (TV/DT) 62 Operating 36 Operating JOVON BROADCASTING CORPORATION HAMMOND
WLS-TV Full (TV/DT) 7 Operating 52 Operating WLS TELEVISION, INC. CHICAGO
WMAQ-TV Full (TV/DT) 5 Operating 29 Operating NBC TELEMUNDO LICENSE CO. CHICAGO
WPWR-TV Full (TV/DT) 50 Operating 51 Operating FOX TELEVISION STATIONS, INC. GARY
WSNS-TV Full (TV/DT) 44 Operating 45 Operating NBC TELEMUNDO LICENSE CO. CHICAGO
WTTW Full (TV/DT) 11 Operating 47 Operating WINDOW TO THE WORLD COMMUNICATIONS, INC. CHICAGO
WWTO-TV Full (TV/DT) 35 Not Operating 10 Operating TCCSA, INC., D/B/A TRINITY BROADCASTING NETWORK LA SALLE
WXFT-TV Full (TV/DT) 60 Operating 59 Operating TELEFUTURA CHICAGO LLC AURORA
WYCC Full (TV/DT) 20 Not Operating 21 Operating COLLEGE DIST. #508, COUNTY OF COOK CHICAGO
WYIN Full (TV/DT) 56 Operating 17 Operating NORTHWEST INDIANA PUBLIC BROADCASTING, INC. GARY

I know some of you guys do some dx-ing and was wondering what kind of stations you're getting.
Last night, I did a channel scan (for various reasons) and came up with a plethora of new channels.
I picked up 58-1 Milwaukee (CBS-not sure the call sign) 55-1 Milwaukee (ABC) WQAD-TV (Moline -Quad Cities) on analog 8. Had a 6-1 I think was from Milwaukee and 18-1

I just thought it was funny. I can get CBS from Milwaukee but not Chicago. Can some of you guys pick up 58-1 on a regular basis or was that just good troposhpere?

I ask because I was considering upgrading my antenna, then I wasn't, but I bought a new TV and yad da yad da. yad da...

So can you pick up Milwaukee CBS on a regular basis or for that matter Rockford? I would really like to get the NCAA tourney coming up and with this DTV delay, I'm not gonna get it from WBBM.

BTW - my current antenna is an RCA walmart "digital HDTV" antenna I bought 3-4 years ago when I bought my first HDTV. I lived in the Quad Cities in an apartment and it worked pretty good, but if I can upgrade and get other markets...I'm all for it. :D Thanks

I was busy until 11 PM last night, then went to bed, but given the warm front coming through...that was "tropospheric ducting" you saw, or just "tropo", or "skip". Happens every spring-fall, and with the pre-spring teaser warmup, you just got a nice taste of it. :) Sometimes predictable, sometimes not.

I have heard that some stations around the country are moving to all digital despite the digital transition. Are any Chicago stations doing this? I haven't came across anything on the internet about it, but I figure I would come in here and ask since you guys are on top of this stuff all the time.

I have heard that some stations around the country are moving to all digital despite the digital transition. Are any Chicago stations doing this? I haven't came across anything on the internet about it, but I figure I would come in here and ask since you guys are on top of this stuff all the time.

The majority of the Chicago market as I've heard so far will not sign off their analogs. Rockford, Quad Cities, Madison appear to be signing off the majority. Milwaukee appears to not be signing off as well.

I'm surprised about Rockford - given their current state of extreme unemployment and heavy minority population. I give them kudos for bucking the bleeding hearts in power now.

I wish they didn't delay the transition. This kind of sucks, but what can you do. I was looking forward to seeing if I would be able to pick up CBS on Feb. 17th. Now we have to wait until June. From what I heard though, Obama hasn't signed the bill that the House approved of. Maybe he will "forget" to sign it. :)

Maybe he will "forget" to sign it. :)

Has he signed it yet?

What are the rules on that?

The majority of the Chicago market as I've heard so far will not sign off their analogs. Rockford, Quad Cities, Madison appear to be signing off the majority. Milwaukee appears to not be signing off as well.

Does anyone know if any of these stations going to digital will improve reception of the Chicago digital stations?

I'm surprised about Rockford - given their current state of extreme unemployment and heavy minority population. I give them kudos for bucking the bleeding hearts in power now.

Yep, all of them are gone, Madison, Cedar Rapids/Waterloo, South Bend, all buh-bye!

Here's the list of stations that have notified the FCC of Feb 17th sign off.
http://hraunfoss.fcc.gov/edocs_public/attachmatch/DA-09-221A5.xls

Does anyone know if any of these stations going to digital will improve reception of the Chicago digital stations?

Its going to help WCIU-DT (interferrence from WKOW-TV in madison) and WWME-LD (interferrence from WQRF-TV in Rockford) for us.

Has he signed it yet?

What are the rules on that?Congress is in session. If the bill isn't signed in 10 days it becomes law without his signature. Arguments over when the 10 days starts and end in another thread. But basically, without a specific action to veto S.352 it will become law sometime next week or so.

The FCC is proceeding under the assumption that a bill that the president requested will become law.

Here's the list of stations that have notified the FCC of Feb 17th sign off.
http://hraunfoss.fcc.gov/edocs_public/attachmatch/DA-09-221A5.xls

Looks like Chicago's staying full analog. That's a waste, when June comes around are they going to cry again and extend it more :confused:

Congress is in session. If the bill isn't signed in 10 days it becomes law without his signature. Arguments over when the 10 days starts and end in another thread. But basically, without a specific action to veto S.352 it will become law sometime next week or so.

The FCC is proceeding under the assumption that a bill that the president requested will become law.

What happens to it if he does not sign it or until after the 17th? Is it still law? Do any of the stations need to follow it or just do what they want?

Why don't we worry about that next week? :D

(Technically until the bill is signed it would be illegal to broadcast analog, except transition and emergency information, on full power TVs after February 17th. But the likelyhood of not getting a signature is so slim that it will just drive you crazy if you worry about it.)

I have heard that some stations around the country are moving to all digital despite the digital transition. Are any Chicago stations doing this? I haven't came across anything on the internet about it, but I figure I would come in here and ask since you guys are on top of this stuff all the time.

on the CHICAGO TONIGHT program (on ch 11) tonight i think they reported that the only illinois station that is turning off their analog signal on 2/17/09 is WSIU in carbondale, il.....and they said WTTW ch 11 is for sure waiting until june...so much for cbs moving to ch 12 digital until june, i guess.....

only illinois station that is turning off their analog signal on 2/17/09 is WSIU in carbondale, il

Actually, WSIU ALREADY turned analog off 1/29/09 - now, WUIS in Olney IS going 2/17/09...

http://www.southernillinoisan.com/articles/2009/01/22/breaking_news/doc4977b322898c3561948013.txt

What is the strongest Rockford station to the east? I can't get any of them. Just curious which one is my best shot. That big 200' "hill" of Lake Zurich is in my way.

What is the strongest Rockford station to the east? I can't get any of them. Just curious which one is my best shot.WTVO 17 (16 RF) or WQRF 39 (42 RF).

I'm not sure which is actually stronger, but they both boom in about equally here. If I had to give one the edge, it would be WTVO.

WTVO 17 (16 RF) or WQRF 39 (42 RF).

I'm not sure which is actually stronger, but they both boom in about equally here. If I had to give one the edge, it would be WTVO.

WQRF has more power, but less height. WTVO has more height, but less power. I personally say height trumps power, but it's hard to say.

- Trip

What is the strongest Rockford station to the east? I can't get any of them. Just curious which one is my best shot. That big 200' "hill" of Lake Zurich is in my way.

WQRF has a bit more bite to her signal, but not by much.

Nine pubTV stations plan digicasting to mobile devices by year's end

http://www.current.org/tech/tech0902mobile.shtml

Published in Current, Feb. 2, 2009 By Katy June-Friesen

Broadcasters, including nine pubTV stations and more than 50 network affiliates, will launch mobile DTV in 22 markets later this year, proponents announced at the Consumer Electronics Show last month. Viewers will pick up the signals on devices such as cell phones, laptops and in-vehicle TVs.

To transmit to mobile users, stations will use a fraction of their digital bitstream --1 to 2 megabits per second out of the total 19.4 Mbps, or the equivalent of a low-end SD channel.

Each will also install a new mobile DTV exciter on its transmitter. Harris Corp. expects to have the first exciters available to stations in March. Jim Kutzner, chief engineer at PBS, says equipping a station to transmit one or two mobile channels will cost about $200,000. Stations may choose to invest more in developing channels distinct from their stationary TV services.

Because the FCC is expected to regard mobile DTV as an ancillary service, pubcasters will have the option to stray from the usual noncommercial underwriting rules and sell straight-up advertising. Stations would also be permitted to raise funds by leasing transmission capacity to clients.

Gadget makers likely won't put out devices with the necessary receiving chips until the Advanced Television Systems Committee agrees on a standard for mobile DTV delivery. ATSC, which has members from the broadcast, motion picture and consumer electronics industries, among others, published a preliminary or "candidate standard" in November and is conducting technical trials. It's seeking feedback from stakeholders including members of the Open Mobile Video Coalition, an alliance of broadcasters including PBS, CPB and the Association of Public Television Stations. ATSC hopes to approve a final standard in the third quarter of 2009, says Mark Richer, president.

Unlike service provider-based video services, such as Verizon's V Cast, mobile DTV doesn't stream video over the carriers' spectrum. The new broadcast service might have come in handy for cell phone users in Chicago's Grant Park on election night or on the National Mall for the inauguration, points out Ron Yergovich, v.p. of engineering at WTTW in Chicago, one of the stations adopting mobile DTV. With millions of Obama supporters trying to use their phones on those recent occasions, mobile networks became too clogged for users to make calls, much less watch video. But with mobile DTV, millions could have watched broadcasts on their pocket-size screens.

No wireless carriers or mobile-device manufacturers have committed to providing mobile DTV chips in their gadgets by a certain date, but several manufacturers -- including LG Electronics and Kenwood -- showcased prototype devices for the mobile DTV demonstrations at CES and last week at the National Association of Television Program Executives conference, both held in Las Vegas. LG showcased a 7-inch widescreen DVD player and a mobile phone with a 3-inch display that featured an electronic TV program guide, among other gadgets. Samsung also has indicated it will produce mobile DTV-friendly products, and several other companies are working on prototypes, Richer says.

"I would guess as we get closer to the end of the year we'll start to see more trials," he says. "There's a significant commitment in the marketplace to make this happen."

The nine pubTV stations planning to begin mobile DTV service this year are:

* WNET in New York,
* WTTW in Chicago,
* WHYY in Philadelphia,
* WGBH in Boston,
* WETA in Washington, D.C.,
* WTVS in Detroit,
* WEDU in Tampa, Fla.,
* WHRO in Norfolk, Va., and
* WBRA in Roanoke, Va.

WTTW plans to offer one mobile DTV channel, which means giving up one of its four broadcast channels. That will leave it with one HD and two standard-definition channels for public TV broadcasts and a mobile DTV channel for wireless service, Yergovich says.

The main reason WTTW pursued mobile DTV was the freedom to advertise, he says. The station will program its mobile channel as a distinct service, and while it may not stuff the schedule with more ads than usual, interrupt programs or push toys to kids, it may air ads that feature calls to action or other methods that are prohibited on stationary public TV broadcasts. Other pubTV stations may choose to simulcast an existing channel or program another noncommercial service.

Broadcasters are chomping at the bit to get mobile up and running, Richer says. "This is the most excited I've ever seen them about anything," And that includes HD, he adds.

Web page posted Feb. 10, 2009, Copyright 2009 by Current LLC

Actually, WSIU ALREADY turned analog off 1/29/09 - now, WUIS in Olney IS going 2/17/09...

http://www.southernillinoisan.com/articles/2009/01/22/breaking_news/doc4977b322898c3561948013.txt

Chicago tonight blew it huge. Can't blame them: The FCC PDF document said WSIU was in Chicago and was turning off on 2/17. Nice! Otherwise, CT blew it because the FCC document clearly says Rockford is shutting off. So is Peoria (most stations), Madison (most), South Bend, Cedar Rapids, Waterloo...and of course, 7 in your home market, Champaign-Decatur-Springfield.

WTTW plans to offer one mobile DTV channel, which means giving up one of its four broadcast channels. That will leave it with one HD and two standard-definition channels for public TV broadcasts and a mobile DTV channel for wireless service, Yergovich says.

Oh THANK GOD they're not trying to squeeze another channel in. I guess that's their plan for 11-2.

and of course, 7 in your home market, Champaign-Decatur-Springfield.

Yea, & of course the very one that needs to convert the MOST, ISN'T!!!
I'm talking about WCFN-DT, which is moving from 53 to 13. We're hoping that when it does convert/move to 13, it'll be at much higher power than it is now. (won't take much, actually :rolleyes: )
WCIA, WILL nor WSEC (which is NOT even marked as a PBS affiliate on the list :rolleyes: ) are not shutting off, either.

He's not my favorite son:

http://www.engadgethd.com/2009/02/11/president-obama-signs-dtv-delay-bill-into-law/

WQRF has a bit more bite to her signal, but not by much.I checked my meter tonight, and I found the opposite here.

Oh joy! Four more months of unreliable CBS ota. I suppose come June, they'll find another reason to dealy once again.

Has he signed it yet?

What are the rules on that?
He finally did sign it unfortunately.

on the CHICAGO TONIGHT program (on ch 11) tonight i think they reported that the only illinois station that is turning off their analog signal on 2/17/09 is WSIU in carbondale, il.....and they said WTTW ch 11 is for sure waiting until june...so much for cbs moving to ch 12 digital until june, i guess.....
This really sucks! Who cares about those millions of people who are not ready yet when there is people like me and you who want our channel 12 CBS. lol! I guess they don't care about us! *sarcasm*

Oh joy! Four more months of unreliable CBS ota. I suppose come June, they'll find another reason to dealy once again.

When I turn on my Samsung HDTV upstairs it knocks 2-1 off of the downstairs TV...another 4 months of this....:mad::(

...another 4 months of this....:mad::(Unless someone discovers that millions of people still aren't ready in June, and decides to delay again. :eek:

Edit: Sorry retromzc, I missed your post that said the same thing.:o

Why dont we pressure WTTW to turn off analoge 11, there really isnt anything worthwile on wttw that I watch. If there is something, tell em to get an digital tuner dammit! :D

Why dont we pressure WTTW to turn off analoge 11, there really isnt anything worthwile on wttw that I watch.But I'll lose my TVGOS signal. :(

But I'll lose my TVGOS signal. :(

You will likely lose that anyway on the 17th as that is when the contract with macrovision is supposed to end. Not sure if they'll extend it. Some markets don't have a carrier for TVGOS post transition at all - Rockford and Madison come to mind.

Not if everything goes according to plan, as per the mod Ken H's contacts, and the reports here on the forum so far. I have a DTVPal for my analog-tunered recorders, and people are just recently beginning to report that they are starting to get the TVGOS D/A conversion feature to work in scattered markets.

Also, I have a Sony DVR, and either it's digital tuner will pick it up on it's own (as many people have reported it doing), or the DTV Pal should do it.

I just have to be able to pick up WBBM reliably, wherever it may be in the spectrum at the time.

I've always been hopeful about the issue, and I will continue to be so.

Why dont we pressure WTTW to turn off analoge 11, there really isnt anything worthwile on wttw that I watch. If there is something, tell em to get an digital tuner dammit! :DIt wouldn't help. WBBM can't use channel 12 until WILL and WISN drop their analog signals on 12, and neither intends to do that until June 12.

If WCPX-DT goes to 720p on Monday, it will be the most eventful OTA happening we'll have here next week.

I just have to be able to pick up WBBM reliably, wherever it may be in the spectrum at the time.

Ram

I'm hoping our WBBM problems will lessen a bit on the 17th. WISC, ch3, in Madison is scheduled to shut down and I'm hoping that removes a major cochannel interference source here in the far NW boonies.

-dickm

Ram

I'm hoping our WBBM problems will lessen a bit on the 17th. WISC, ch3, in Madison is scheduled to shut down and I'm hoping that removes a major cochannel interference source here in the far NW boonies.

-dickm

That may help but for the most part WISC 3 from Madison would be at your antenna backside that should reduce it's gain. Channel 3 WBBM-DT is very weak to start with so I wouldn't expect miracles.

This whole 4 month extension is a joke as far as Im concerned.

...This whole 4 month extension is a joke as far as Im concerned.I wish it were. At least a joke would make me smile. :(

Ram

I'm hoping our WBBM problems will lessen a bit on the 17th. WISC, ch3, in Madison is scheduled to shut down and I'm hoping that removes a major cochannel interference source here in the far NW boonies.

-dickmThat might help you a little more where you're at. I really don't notice that much of a problem with that here. I barely even pick up a trace of the analog channels from Madison.

The biggest interference for me was WOCH and WIFR-DT, but since WIFR raised their power, it's a lot better now (now I just wish WOCH would relinquish that frequency completely and go digital).

Thats funny. I'm only 35 miles from Rockford and 10 miles closer than you are and I get hardly a peep from them. Reception is very sporatic, especially with WIFR. I get Milwaukee better than I get Rockford.

I'm especially looking forward to WKOW going off the air so I can finally receive WCIU. I'm still crossing my fingers that WBBM reception will improve too.

We have a VHF dt station serving Ft.Wayne . We have the translator signal on analog 43 in the city proper. But ther main tower is located 24 miles in Edgerton,OH. The tower is 500 feet tall. The digital antenna is side mounted at 433 feet . The ERP is 12.5kw. I am using a Winegard HD-1080 antenna. I am picking up from the rear of the aerial for DT-12. Yesterday I mounted a Winegard High-band VHF antenna aimed at DT-12. Combined the VHF line and the uhf line to a C.M. u/v combiner and it works perfect. The VHF is only 25 feet off the ground and signal level on the display TV is in the strong reading . Just think when WBBM moves to Sears tower and is on D.T.12 WOW! Hold on for just a little longer it is going to happen.

I get Milwaukee better than I get Rockford.It's the opposite for me. Could be because I'm completely clear in the Rockford direction, and have to go through some trees for Milwaukee.

Plus you're further north than me - even if it's actually northwest.

Have anyone noticed issues with WYCC? I've seen this through Comcast and analog broadcast. Some programs are anamorphically stretched. 'Wishbone' is doing this right now. It's 4:3, stretched vertically, and narrowed horizontally. It's not 16:9 anamorphic. On a 4:3 screen, it has pillarboxing. On a 16:9 screen, you have super-wide pillarboxing. Weird.

I've seen it on a few other shows. It's not doing it on Sesame Street at the moment. I didn't have time to get to my other TV with the converter box to see how the digital broadcast was. I was wondering if it was an HD program improperly downconverted.

Another minor oddity: The analog feed through Comcast is about 1 second AHEAD of the analog broadcast!

I've noticed this also a few times.

Have anyone noticed issues with WYCC? I've seen this through Comcast and analog broadcast. Some programs are anamorphically stretched. 'Wishbone' is doing this right now. It's 4:3, stretched vertically, and narrowed horizontally. It's not 16:9 anamorphic. On a 4:3 screen, it has pillarboxing. On a 16:9 screen, you have super-wide pillarboxing. Weird.

I've seen it on a few other shows. It's not doing it on Sesame Street at the moment. I didn't have time to get to my other TV with the converter box to see how the digital broadcast was. I was wondering if it was an HD program improperly downconverted.

Another minor oddity: The analog feed through Comcast is about 1 second AHEAD of the analog broadcast!

The PBS Master Satellite feeds have all gone to HD. It is the stations responsibility to crop them properly if they want to use them for 4x3. Ch 20 is probably doing something wrong or passing the signal the way PBS is sending it. This is why your seeing the anomoly.

4 more months of low band VHF CBS hell. Joy!

Might be even longer. My sources tell me don't be surprised if yet another delay is signed in to law by June 12, extending the deadline until the fall.

Have anyone noticed issues with WYCC? I've seen this through Comcast and analog broadcast. Some programs are anamorphically stretched. 'Wishbone' is doing this right now. It's 4:3, stretched vertically, and narrowed horizontally. It's not 16:9 anamorphic. On a 4:3 screen, it has pillarboxing. On a 16:9 screen, you have super-wide pillarboxing. Weird.

I've seen it on a few other shows. It's not doing it on Sesame Street at the moment. I didn't have time to get to my other TV with the converter box to see how the digital broadcast was. I was wondering if it was an HD program improperly downconverted.

WYCC is all over the place. Smartest thing I ever did was tell my DVR to reduce the priority of 20.1 down four places, while leaving the priority of 20.2 at neutral. That way, when a show comes up to be recorded (same time same info on both "channels"), the DVR automatically picks the 20.2 4:3 SD version. (I'm not aware of them broadcasting anything in HD that's actually shot in HD... at least none of the stuff I bother recording off of WYCC.)

Might be even longer. My sources tell me don't be surprised if yet another delay is signed in to law by June 12, extending the deadline until the fall.

If that happens, I'm right behind Ramminski with some sort of weapon. Maybe a Rosie O'donnel fart gun. :D

They better not extend it again. Seriously. Lets give people a very "small" benefit of the doubt since the government did not do the best job in spreading the word. However, with that being said there has been A CRAP LOAD of commercials on TV. You can't be telling me that a million(s) people did not know about this when there was commercials airing constantly. The truth of the matter is that people are lazy. My dad works with a guy and the guy is so cheap he won't buy a new TV or a converter box. He said he will just stop watching TV. So, part of it is just the ignorance on many peoples part and its up to them to do what is necessary.

(I'm not aware of them broadcasting anything in HD that's actually shot in HD... at least none of the stuff I bother recording off of WYCC.)They showed some talk show last night in HD.

They better not extend it again. Seriously. Lets give people a very "small" benefit of the doubt since the government did not do the best job in spreading the word. However, with that being said there has been A CRAP LOAD of commercials on TV. You can't be telling me that a million(s) people did not know about this when there was commercials airing constantly. The truth of the matter is that people are lazy. My dad works with a guy and the guy is so cheap he won't buy a new TV or a converter box. He said he will just stop watching TV. So, part of it is just the ignorance on many peoples part and its up to them to do what is necessary.

LAZY is an understatement, they will only get off there butts when the plug is pulled be it in June, next year or when ever. Then they will cry I didn't know... Ya Right!

So I've been living in the "dark ages" for the past couple months - got rid of Comcast and figured I'd wait till the transition to start watching TV again.

Last night I picked up a couple boxes and a set of rabbit ears and holy crap I have TV again! I'm on the IL/WI border, and I managed to pick up a ton of channels - both from Milwaukee and Chicago. CBS isn't a concern for me since Milwaukee's CBS is in the clear for me. The other stations I care for (NBC, FOX, WGN) come in clearly at decent - high signal strenth. Can't wait to try it out in the attic and see how it goes :)

If that happens, I'm right behind Ramminski with some sort of weapon. Maybe a Rosie O'donnel fart gun. :D

Doesn't that qualify as a WMD?

They better not extend it again. Seriously. Lets give people a very "small" benefit of the doubt since the government did not do the best job in spreading the word. However, with that being said there has been A CRAP LOAD of commercials on TV. You can't be telling me that a million(s) people did not know about this when there was commercials airing constantly...Given the commercial and PR blitz, it's hard to imagine anyone who actually watches TV very often not hearing about this. I suspect that a fair number of those who were unaware are those who don't watch often (including those who brag about it).

As for the government not doing "the best job in spreading the word," I don't know what more they were supposed to do; knock on everyone's door and explain it personally? :rolleyes: Some people don't get the word, no matter what the subject. T'was always thus.

Of course, now that the government has cried wolf, many will ignore the next warnings, too. Which will cause the CR's of the world to petition for another delay. And the cycle continues.

Tonight, ADIOS ANALOG!... (in South Bend)
http://www.wndu.com/home/headlines/39637377.html
WNDU, WSBT, and WSJV are shutting down the "legacy" mode.

Tonight, ADIOS ANALOG!... (in South Bend)
http://www.wndu.com/home/headlines/39637377.html
WNDU, WSBT, and WSJV are shutting down the "legacy" mode.

Don't forget Rockford! WIFR-TV 23 will "night light". WREX shuts down at 12:30 PM Tuesday 2/17 and flash cuts their digital from 54 to 13; WQRF/WTVO shuts down at 11:59 PM.

doesn't that qualify as a wmd?

rof lmao!!!!

Don't forget Rockford! WIFR-TV 23 will "night light". WREX shuts down at 12:30 PM Tuesday 2/17 and flash cuts their digital from 54 to 13; WQRF/WTVO shuts down at 11:59 PM.

I'm looking forward to seeing my MeTV digital for once. It's been there just not lockable.

hvs10trk:

I'm not familiar with all the legal issues surrounding it, so I figure I'll ask you since you're the most knowledgeable person.

As I recall, WWME-CA 23 is running at a power level above and beyond the FCC limit for Class A stations, correct? 363 kW, according to the FCC (the limit is supposed to be 150 kW). Given this, could a similar argument be made for WWME-LD on 39? Could that run at 36.3 kW, given the limit is normally 15 kW? Or perhaps a flash-cut on 23 at some point in the future? Or is there some issue which bars this from occurring about which I'm not aware? The whole thing confuses me, and I'm just trying to understand what's going on with it.

Thanks. :)

- Trip

Tonight, ADIOS ANALOG!... (in South Bend)
http://www.wndu.com/home/headlines/39637377.html
WNDU, WSBT, and WSJV are shutting down the "legacy" mode.Last I saw on the WNDU website was 6:30pm tomorrow. I guess they changed their mind?

Good to see it go. Last report for WSJV was 9:00am Tues, WSBT was 6:30pm Tues nightlighting until midnight.

http://www.grimmy.com/images/MGG_Archive/MGG_2009/MGG0216.gif

Tonight, ADIOS ANALOG!... (in South Bend)
http://www.wndu.com/home/headlines/39637377.html
WNDU, WSBT, and WSJV are shutting down the "legacy" mode.

Not quite. WSJV shuts down Tuesday at 9 AM.

http://www.fox28.com/Global/story.asp?S=9789092

I'm looking forward to seeing my MeTV digital for once. It's been there just not lockable.You mean you've never been able to get 26.2? ;)

you mean you've never been able to get 26.2? ;)

23.1

hvs10trk:

I'm not familiar with all the legal issues surrounding it, so I figure I'll ask you since you're the most knowledgeable person.

As I recall, WWME-CA 23 is running at a power level above and beyond the FCC limit for Class A stations, correct? 363 kW, according to the FCC (the limit is supposed to be 150 kW). Given this, could a similar argument be made for WWME-LD on 39? Could that run at 36.3 kW, given the limit is normally 15 kW? Or perhaps a flash-cut on 23 at some point in the future? Or is there some issue which bars this from occurring about which I'm not aware? The whole thing confuses me, and I'm just trying to understand what's going on with it.

Thanks. :)

- Trip


Confuses me too. RF is not my strong point. Guess its good I dont make the power decisions. It would be 5mw for everyone. :D

WIFR-TV 23 in Rockford pulled the plug at 11:59 PM tonight. I thought they were going to "night light", but nope...they announced at the end of the 10 PM news, that this was their last analog newscast, and they were pulling the plug at 11:59 PM. Unceremoneously, they did so. I now get MeTV, WWME-CA 23 analog from Sears almost completely without snow here in DeKalb, as I did whenever WIFR did maintenance and went off the air late at night.

I am seeing slight digital hashing...likely from the PBS digital in Moline, on the same frequency.

Too bad I in Lisle can't get MeTV at all via OTA.

WIFR-TV 23 in Rockford pulled the plug at 11:59 PM tonight. I thought they were going to "night light", but nope...they announced at the end of the 10 PM news, that this was their last analog newscast, and they were pulling the plug at 11:59 PM. Unceremoneously, they did so. I now get MeTV, WWME-CA 23 analog from Sears almost completely without snow here in DeKalb, as I did whenever WIFR did maintenance and went off the air late at night.

I am seeing slight digital hashing...likely from the PBS digital in Moline, on the same frequency.

I am seeing the same thing here in Wayne - I have never seen Channel 23 analog so clear before. One thing I did notice is analog channel 41 here (some channel that is foreign language stuff) is noticeably worst. Is that because Rockford's CBS digital is on 41? Not that I watch that channel, just making an observation :)

What will be interesting for me when I get home tonight is that I can see Rockford Analog 13, but have never been able to get their digital NBC station. I wonder if I will be able to pick it up after they turn off their analog and change frequencies. I think I would be able to as was previous stated on this thread. So we shall see!

Too bad I in Lisle can't get MeTV at all via OTA.

You can't get 26-2? That's a pretty strong signal.

I am seeing the same thing here in Wayne - I have never seen Channel 23 analog so clear before. One thing I did notice is analog channel 41 here (some channel that is foreign language stuff) is noticeably worst. Is that because Rockford's CBS digital is on 41? Not that I watch that channel, just making an observation :)

Yup, and they recently doubled their power to 100 kilowatts.


What will be interesting for me when I get home tonight is that I can see Rockford Analog 13, but have never been able to get their digital NBC station. I wonder if I will be able to pick it up after they turn off their analog and change frequencies. I think I would be able to as was previous stated on this thread. So we shall see!

Indeed. WREX-DT 54 will sign off at 12:30 PM; WREX-DT 13 will sign on by 1:30 PM, according to WREX. Also, I might have read wrong, but WOCK-CA may have to leave the air, as stated in one of their recent displacement filings, so as not to interfere with the new and monstrous signal of WREX-DT 13. The FCC signal strength contour has a "Grade A" signal into Elgin, so this ought to be interesting! Zippy, turn that antenna northwest when you get back and let us know what you see.

Yup, and they recently doubled their power to 100 kilowatts.



Indeed. WREX-DT 54 will sign off at 12:30 PM; WREX-DT 13 will sign on by 1:30 PM, according to WREX. Also, I might have read wrong, but WOCK-CA may have to leave the air, as stated in one of their recent displacement filings, so as not to interfere with the new and monstrous signal of WREX-DT 13. The FCC signal strength contour has a "Grade A" signal into Elgin, so this ought to be interesting! Zippy, turn that antenna northwest when you get back and let us know what you see.

I'll have to rescan tonight when I get home to see if I can see WREX. Had data hits from time to time before but no lock.

Hello, I live in Porter Co. IN. and get terrible reception on channel 7 ABC since hooking up the box. What used to be the best channel is now the worst channel. It has also affected channel 26. I have a 19 inch new digital tv in another room and channel 7 and 26 come in ok on it. I have a roof top antenna with an amplifier in order to get South Bend stations. Is the terrible reception due to the crummy tuner in the coverter box? Thanks for any response.

Hello, I live in Porter Co. IN. and get terrible reception on channel 7 ABC since hooking up the box. What used to be the best channel is now the worst channel. It has also affected channel 26. I have a 19 inch new digital tv in another room and channel 7 and 26 come in ok on it. I have a roof top antenna with an amplifier in order to get South Bend stations. Is the terrible reception due to the crummy tuner in the coverter box? Thanks for any response.

I would guess your converter box is has an inferior receiver design compared to your TV. Maybe you should go to cnet.com and check into a recommended box and see if there is an issue with the one you have. Not to state the obvious, but is there possibly an issue on the converter box antenna in coax? I would check that too.

Yup, and they recently doubled their power to 100 kilowatts.



Indeed. WREX-DT 54 will sign off at 12:30 PM; WREX-DT 13 will sign on by 1:30 PM, according to WREX. Also, I might have read wrong, but WOCK-CA may have to leave the air, as stated in one of their recent displacement filings, so as not to interfere with the new and monstrous signal of WREX-DT 13. The FCC signal strength contour has a "Grade A" signal into Elgin, so this ought to be interesting! Zippy, turn that antenna northwest when you get back and let us know what you see.

Is this what you are talking about?
http://fjallfoss.fcc.gov/prod/cdbs/forms/prod/getimportletter_exh.cgi?import_letter_id=10025

It's pretty vague.

From Broadcasting & Mobile - 02/17/09:

Saying it wanted to "reduce consumer confusion" surrounding Congress' decision to move the DTV hard date, Ion Television announced Monday it will push back its launch in high definition one month.

Ion was planning to launch in HD on Feb. 16, in 20 markets where it has TV stations. Now those same 20 will launch March 16, with the other 40 stations coming on board later in the year.

Ion's 40 other stations--it is the largest station owner in terms of number of stations--are still going to make the transition to digital on Feb. 17, but about two thirds of the nation's roughly 1,800 TV stations will be delaying pulling the plug on the analog version of their primary signal after the administration asked, and Congress consented, to move the date.

That will give the government more time to set up call centers and get DTV-to-analog converter box coupons to viewers, though it will also create some confusion as viewers now have several analog cut-off dates to contend with.

Yesterday WCPX-DT didn't change to HD, and tonight no full-power stations in the Chicago DMA will shut their analog signals off.

What an eventful week in the history of Chicago broadcast television.

From Broadcasting & Mobile - 02/17/09:

Saying it wanted to "reduce consumer confusion" surrounding Congress' decision to move the DTV hard date, Ion Television announced Monday it will push back its launch in high definition one month.

Ion was planning to launch in HD on Feb. 16, in 20 markets where it has TV stations. Now those same 20 will launch March 16, with the other 40 stations coming on board later in the year.

Ion's 40 other stations--it is the largest station owner in terms of number of stations--are still going to make the transition to digital on Feb. 17, but about two thirds of the nation's roughly 1,800 TV stations will be delaying pulling the plug on the analog version of their primary signal after the administration asked, and Congress consented, to move the date.

That will give the government more time to set up call centers and get DTV-to-analog converter box coupons to viewers, though it will also create some confusion as viewers now have several analog cut-off dates to contend with.

ION is such a joke. This is one of the most pathetic excuses I have heard.

So much time and effort invested in the DTV shutdown for today, all wasted. Just another day in Chicago TV.

BTW did WNDU channel 16 South Bend analog shut down yet? Just curious. I show a hint of something there (no tropo today) and wonder if thats 16 South Bend or something else.

Too bad I in Lisle can't get MeTV at all via OTA.

I'm getting it in the southwest corner of Naperville....you should be able to receive it in Lisle.

LAZY is an understatement, they will only get off there butts when the plug is pulled be it in June, next year or when ever. Then they will cry I didn't know... Ya Right!
Yes sir! People only act when it is absolutely necessary. I for sure do not want to hear anyone cry and moan once it becomes June. Under no circumstances should there be any excuses.

Given the commercial and PR blitz, it's hard to imagine anyone who actually watches TV very often not hearing about this. I suspect that a fair number of those who were unaware are those who don't watch often (including those who brag about it).

As for the government not doing "the best job in spreading the word," I don't know what more they were supposed to do; knock on everyone's door and explain it personally? :rolleyes: Some people don't get the word, no matter what the subject. T'was always thus.

Of course, now that the government has cried wolf, many will ignore the next warnings, too. Which will cause the CR's of the world to petition for another delay. And the cycle continues.
Yeah, even people who don't watch TV should still know about this. Even someone who is 90 and may not even have a TV set. Its just a common thing to know.. just as common as knowing who the president is.

You can't get 26-2? That's a pretty strong signal.

Nope. In fact, I can't get any of the 26s OTA. Same goes for WBBM channel 2, among a couple others. I'm 30 miles southwest of the Loop, with plenty of trees, buildings, and hills between me and the city.

...Its just a common thing to know.. just as common as knowing who the president is.Unfortunately, there are always a few who don't even know that. :(

Shhhhhh! Don't remind me!

BTW did WNDU channel 16 South Bend analog shut down yet? Just curious. I show a hint of something there (no tropo today) and wonder if thats 16 South Bend or something else.Channel 16 remains on the air as a nightlight. Channel 28 will nightlight until June (unless they change their mind). Channel 22 will nightlight from 6:30pm ET until midnight then move digital 30 to 22.

Is this what you are talking about?
http://fjallfoss.fcc.gov/prod/cdbs/forms/prod/getimportletter_exh.cgi?import_letter_id=10025

It's pretty vague.

Yep, so is WOCK-CA 13 still on the air? I have no way of telling.

Yesterday WCPX-DT didn't change to HD, and tonight no full-power stations in the Chicago DMA will shut their analog signals off.

What an eventful week in the history of Chicago broadcast television.

Meanwhile, the fur is hitting the fan in the market just northwest of you---Rockford. I lost WREX when they flipped to VHF 13 this afternoon; I can only see a blip on the meter from my VHF antennas pointed east and south away from it...but when they were on UHF, I could still get them easily. Meanwhile, 17 and 39 go bye-bye at 11:59 PM tonight. At that time, I will check to see if I can get WYIN on DT 17 and WWME-LD on 39. Last time, I couldn't lock 39.1 (WWME-LD), but we'll see tonight if I can.

WWME-LD is still the only Chicago DT that doesn't survive the split at my place.
They need more power...

Gilbert, I was able to lock WREX-DT 13 for a few minutes this afternoon (from Plano). Even with the antenna aimed toward Rockford the signal was very weak (I expected more from a 12 kw VHF high signal) but did come in for a while. WTVO-DT boomed in fine. No hint of WQRF or WIFR-DT. As for WWME-LD, I used to pick it up just fine but for the last two months there is little to no signal available here. WYIN-DT comes in fine here if I aim the antenna toward Indiana.

Nope. In fact, I can't get any of the 26s OTA. Same goes for WBBM channel 2, among a couple others. I'm 30 miles southwest of the Loop, with plenty of trees, buildings, and hills between me and the city.

That's kind of surprising. I'm about the same distance away and don't have any issues with the 26's with an attic antenna (no hills or trees, though). The standalone MeTV 23.1 broadcasting on 39 has a much lower signal due to the power they broadcast at, but I can still get it as well. Channel 2 I understand. Even on rare occasions when I can get a signal, the picture breaks up all over the place.

Yep, so is WOCK-CA 13 still on the air? I have no way of telling.

Yes, it's still on the air, and I still can't understand a word of it. :D

Gilbert, I was able to lock WREX-DT 13 for a few minutes this afternoon (from Plano). Even with the antenna aimed toward Rockford the signal was very weak (I expected more from a 12 kw VHF high signal) but did come in for a while. WTVO-DT boomed in fine. No hint of WQRF or WIFR-DT. As for WWME-LD, I used to pick it up just fine but for the last two months there is little to no signal available here. WYIN-DT comes in fine here if I aim the antenna toward Indiana.

Thanks, Retro. I unhooked my ChannelMaster 4228 mesh screen UHF antenna, which I used primarily just to get WLS and WTTW. When my 6th gen tuner came along, that antenna wasn't needed anymore. So, I put it into a VHF slot on my VHF-UHF splitter, put it on the north side of my attic, pointed it towards Rockford, and it took a lot of tweaking to get the reception to a solid 60% lock, just leaning against a wall until the weather warms up and I can spend more time up there. I can't get WWTO-DT 10 anymore on my VHF antenna pointing south since that slot is now filled, but due to a hill in the way, I rarely got it anyway. If they go 80 kilowatts, then it'll happen, but until the weather warms up, this is what I have for now, which is fine.

Edit: A friend of mine in Waterman, using a Winegard HD7084P pointed at Rockford, is now able to lock it solidly for the first time.

Wait until WQRF-TV signs off tonight, then see if WWME-LD comes in.
Spotter training at NIU tomorrow night, 7 PM at Faraday West...you coming?

Heisman: Thanks, and LOL!

Yup, and they recently doubled their power to 100 kilowatts.



Indeed. WREX-DT 54 will sign off at 12:30 PM; WREX-DT 13 will sign on by 1:30 PM, according to WREX. Also, I might have read wrong, but WOCK-CA may have to leave the air, as stated in one of their recent displacement filings, so as not to interfere with the new and monstrous signal of WREX-DT 13. The FCC signal strength contour has a "Grade A" signal into Elgin, so this ought to be interesting! Zippy, turn that antenna northwest when you get back and let us know what you see.

I tried it this evening, and I can't get DT 13 at all... 0% signal... I am surprised by that considering how well I could receive the analog channel. Has anyone else had any trouble pulling in the channel after the switch? I did a rescan on my TV after pointing my antenna towards Rockford, but nothing. I will try again tomorrow.

I have never seen Channel 23 analog so clear before.I think you probably mean that the signal quality was consistent and strong - not that the picture quality was actually "clearer".

Yes, it's still on the air, and I still can't understand a word of it. :DI actually can - though I won't let on, because it's supposed to be the other way around, and they're supposed to learn OUR language.

I didn't learn it so I can converse with them or watch their TV shows - I learned it so I can understand what they're saying about me to each other when they think I don't understand. ;)

Shhhhhh! Don't remind me!As Edward G. said, "Where's your Messiah now, nyahh?".

WWME 39 is no stronger here that I can tell. I haven't tried WREX yet, but I imagine that's out of the picture. I didn't even realize they were going to VHF (actually, I'm sure I caught it, but it just didn't sink in, because it really wasn't that important to me).

The only majors I'm concerned with from Rockford are WIFR and WTVO, because of CBS and ABC from Chicago both eventually ending up on VHF.

Wasn't expecting any kind of "nightlight" from WIFR analog, since they were running the ticker all day before saying they were cutting the signal clean off.

When I can get my amp back in service on the rooftop antenna, I'll see if WYIN is any easier to get - that one would sure be nice to have.

Is the terrible reception due to the crummy tuner in the coverter box? Thanks for any response.Unless the connection's not good like swiat said, the Maggie is not exactly known to be one of the better boxes out there. Get yourself a Zenith or Channel Master.

Much better picture quality on a TV large enough to notice that on, too (especially if you can use the CM's s-video connection - that has the best PQ of any CECB out there).

OK, I've posted enough times in a row now and I'll give you guys a break.

Yep, so is WOCK-CA 13 still on the air? I have no way of telling.

Yep. It's still there and powerful as ever. No hope getting Rockford until that station goes away.

So a quick re-scan could (possibly) pull in WBBM-DT?!?!

That would be grand... I'll give it a go..

Coming March 30, 2009


CHICAGO, Feb. 17 /PRNewswire/ -- On March 30, Window to the World Communications, Inc., parent company to WTTW11 and 98.7WFMT, will launch WTTW Prime, a new digital channel which will air on 11.2 for those viewers with converter boxes or over-the-air digital TVs, and through Comcast on channel 243. WTTW Prime joins WTTW11, WTTWHD, Create, and the Spanish language station, Vme.

This channel will provide a unique blend of core primetime programming from PBS to WTTW's award-winning locally produced programming. WTTW Prime's schedule will be an alternative to what viewers will see on WTTW's other channels and will include more favorites like Antiques Roadshow, Mystery and Check, Please! along with new exclusive specials and series. Friday nights will be a haven for public affairs viewers -- offering first runs of the McLaughlin Group, Now on PBS, Washington Week, Bill Moyers Journal -- in addition to Exchange with Daljit Dhaliwal and Inside Washington.

"WTTW Prime is an opportunity to showcase quality programs for adults throughout the day. From early evening premiere broadcasts of BBC World News and Nightly Business Report, to encore presentations of The Civil War, Chicago Tonight and Masterpiece, this service will provide an all-day destination for audiences that want more public television choices in Chicago. The driving force behind this channel is the WTTW viewer who has valued and enjoyed our programming for more than 50 years. We are trying to use our digital technology to serve the interests of our community," said Senior Vice President of Content Dan Soles.

Coming March 30, 2009


CHICAGO, Feb. 17 /PRNewswire/ -- On March 30, Window to the World Communications, Inc., parent company to WTTW11 and 98.7WFMT, will launch WTTW Prime, a new digital channel which will air on 11.2 for those viewers with converter boxes or over-the-air digital TVs, and through Comcast on channel 243. WTTW Prime joins WTTW11, WTTWHD, Create, and the Spanish language station, Vme.

This channel will provide a unique blend of core primetime programming from PBS to WTTW's award-winning locally produced programming. WTTW Prime's schedule will be an alternative to what viewers will see on WTTW's other channels and will include more favorites like Antiques Roadshow, Mystery and Check, Please! along with new exclusive specials and series. Friday nights will be a haven for public affairs viewers -- offering first runs of the McLaughlin Group, Now on PBS, Washington Week, Bill Moyers Journal -- in addition to Exchange with Daljit Dhaliwal and Inside Washington.

"WTTW Prime is an opportunity to showcase quality programs for adults throughout the day. From early evening premiere broadcasts of BBC World News and Nightly Business Report, to encore presentations of The Civil War, Chicago Tonight and Masterpiece, this service will provide an all-day destination for audiences that want more public television choices in Chicago. The driving force behind this channel is the WTTW viewer who has valued and enjoyed our programming for more than 50 years. We are trying to use our digital technology to serve the interests of our community," said Senior Vice President of Content Dan Soles.


More crappy programming I will never watch :D give us our HD bits back!

Nope. In fact, I can't get any of the 26s OTA. Same goes for WBBM channel 2, among a couple others. I'm 30 miles southwest of the Loop, with plenty of trees, buildings, and hills between me and the city.

I find that a bit surprising. I'm 35 miles away, out between Aurora and Naperville, and I can receive everything from Chicago. 23.1 is pretty weak, and only my newest tuner receives it reliably, but they are all there. The biggest problem with 2.1 is the low VHF channel 3 assignment. 3 goes a long way on a little power, but it is really sensitive to RF noise.

What kind of antenna and distribution are you using?

Dan (Woj...)

Well, no more WREX-DT or Rockford analogs, and I'm not getting anything I wasn't before, or anything that I was getting any better.

So that's Round 1- switchover:1, Ramm:0 (or should I say -1?).

Let's hope it doesn't continue this way.

As for Lord Vader, is it really that surprising to anyone that he has trouble receiving those stations with "plenty of trees, buildings and hills" between him and the towers? (not saying he couldn't improve things - but we don't know that yet.)

Coming March 30, 2009


CHICAGO, Feb. 17 /PRNewswire/ -- On March 30, Window to the World Communications, Inc., parent company to WTTW11 and 98.7WFMT, will launch WTTW Prime, a new digital channel which will air on 11.2 for those viewers with converter boxes or over-the-air digital TVs, and through Comcast on channel 243. WTTW Prime joins WTTW11, WTTWHD, Create, and the Spanish language station, Vme.

This channel will provide a unique blend of core primetime programming from PBS to WTTW's award-winning locally produced programming. WTTW Prime's schedule will be an alternative to what viewers will see on WTTW's other channels and will include more favorites like Antiques Roadshow, Mystery and Check, Please! along with new exclusive specials and series. Friday nights will be a haven for public affairs viewers -- offering first runs of the McLaughlin Group, Now on PBS, Washington Week, Bill Moyers Journal -- in addition to Exchange with Daljit Dhaliwal and Inside Washington.

"WTTW Prime is an opportunity to showcase quality programs for adults throughout the day. From early evening premiere broadcasts of BBC World News and Nightly Business Report, to encore presentations of The Civil War, Chicago Tonight and Masterpiece, this service will provide an all-day destination for audiences that want more public television choices in Chicago. The driving force behind this channel is the WTTW viewer who has valued and enjoyed our programming for more than 50 years. We are trying to use our digital technology to serve the interests of our community," said Senior Vice President of Content Dan Soles.

sounds like PBS World, like they have in Milwaukee, except WTTW is rebranding it. The article is misleading too. It says the new channel on 11-2 "joins WTTW11, WTTWHD..." Well, you can't have WTTW Prime and WTTW11. Looks like we'll have different programming on 11-1 and 11-2 again. I'm guessing they mean:

11-1 WTTWD
11-2 WTTW Prime
11-3 Create
11-4 V-me

So a quick re-scan could (possibly) pull in WBBM-DT?!?!

That would be grand... I'll give it a go..

why would WBBM-DT be any better today?

More crappy programming I will never watch :D give us our HD bits back!

another vote for it ;)

why would WBBM-DT be any better today?


Could it be some minor tropo happenign with the weather and front that is going through tonight? Stations here seem to be coming in better tonight due to this.

It's Comet Lulun.

Well, no more WREX-DT or Rockford analogs, and I'm not getting anything I wasn't before, or anything that I was getting any better.

So that's Round 1- switchover:1, Ramm:0 (or should I say -1?).

Let's hope it doesn't continue this way.

As for Lord Vader, is it really that surprising to anyone that he has trouble receiving those stations with "plenty of trees, buildings and hills" between him and the towers? (not saying he couldn't improve things - but we don't know that yet.)

They did switch digtial from 54 back to thier old analog channel 13 and I did get it with my unamped 4228HD pointed to Madison. I had to pointed to Rockfordd before when they still on 54, but during the late day on the 17th then it came in with the antenna pointed to Madison.

Willie

The list grows.

On Monday WCPX continued broadcasting in SD.

On Tuesday the full-power analogs stayed on the air.

On Wednesday WBBM, WLS, WXFT, and WGBO's ATSC signals remained on their old frequencies.

I wonder what won't happen the rest of the week.

Has anyone successfully locked in a signal with CBS 2 (WBBM) on the new frequency? I couldn't get it before, and a rescan still isn't picking it up for me.

Without a constant stream of CSI, how can I call myself a legitimate scientist?

Has anyone successfully locked in a signal with CBS 2 (WBBM) on the new frequency?No, because they haven't used it yet.  With WTTW, WISN, and WILL still pumping their analogs, WBBM-DT can't move to its new frequency.

I can finally lock WWME-LD. Its not the strongest signal but its there and its solid. (considering the antenna I'm using)

Well, no more WREX-DT or Rockford analogs, and I'm not getting anything I wasn't before, or anything that I was getting any better.

So that's Round 1- switchover:1, Ramm:0 (or should I say -1?).

Let's hope it doesn't continue this way.

As for Lord Vader, is it really that surprising to anyone that he has trouble receiving those stations with "plenty of trees, buildings and hills" between him and the towers? (not saying he couldn't improve things - but we don't know that yet.)

Nah...you'll be fine. 12 kw on channel 13 doesn't go very far with a 1,000' antenna. Put it 500' higher, though, and watch what happens with WBBM...
Vader, you should be getting analog 23, even with trees in the way, albeit with ghosting given the buildings and such in your way. I can get it with almost cable Tv quality with an indoor ChannelMaster 4228 classic 8-bay UHF antenna in my one-story attic, and I'm pretty low on the northwest side of DeKalb, 60 miles from Sears Tower, almost to the foot!

Hey HVS, National Engineers week is next week. What are you guys going to do to celebrate? I'm still looking for the HVS engineering geek call-in talk show. A special edition of Standing Wave Ratios could be an excellent debut topic of the show! :D