Hey everyone,
I am hooking up an antenna and was wondering what is a good signal strength that I should be looking for? My tv gives me two readings

Strength %

&

Quality %

Any recos?

Hey HD Mission,

Signal strength is quite variable. Some have 33% as a lock of picture and sound. My DTT-900 converter box has it as 50%. My friend's DirecTV box is a hair above 60%.

Signal quality: if that is measured by signal to noise ratio, 16:1 is the lowest theoretical you can have. Anything 20:1 or higher should lock. With 6th generation tuners, a few can go all the way down to 16:1 and still lock.

Yup
WFLD FOX 32 is under construction upgrading the studio n control room ;-)

Would I be better off connecting the antenna to my DirecTV box or directly to my Samsung A650 ATSC tuner? My antenna is pretty old and I am about 23 miles from downtown.

Should I replace my older 20 year old antenna. I am about 23 miles from downtown. I lost satellite a couple of times this winter and would like ATSC tuner back up?

if its been outside in the weather for 20 years it probably has some corrosion problems and maybe even has bent and/or missing elements?

but if its been in your attic for 20 years you're fine....new antennas are no better than 'old' antennas....dont believe the huge lies about needing new 'HD ready' antennas....its all bs to make u think u need to buy something!

dont believe the huge lies about needing new 'HD ready' antennas....its all bs to make u think u need to buy something!

Maybe I should sell some Digital HD ready coat hangers because your old coat hangers won't receive digital. ;) :D

if its been outside in the weather for 20 years it probably has some corrosion problems and maybe even has bent and/or missing elements?

but if its been in your attic for 20 years you're fine....new antennas are no better than 'old' antennas....dont believe the huge lies about needing new 'HD ready' antennas....its all bs to make u think u need to buy something!

....and people wonder why I have a problem with best buy. :eek:

Hey everyone,
I am hooking up an antenna and was wondering what is a good signal strength that I should be looking for? My tv gives me two readings

Strength %

&

Quality %

Think about it like a person talking...

If a person is talking very quietly (low signal strength) in an empty room (low background noise, so the sound is of high quality getting to your ears), you can still understand them. But if you take that same person talking at the same strength, and put them in a rock concert with lots of background noise (low quality), then you won't hear anything. In other words, with radio signals it's really never about signal strength. It's always about how much signal you get minus how much noise you have; it's the difference between the signal and the noise that matters. That's why when people say they get "5 bars of signal" on their cell phones, I say big fricken deal. "5 bars" tells you nothing about how clean the signal is; it could be 100% noise and you'd never know. (Well, you'd know; your phone wouldn't work.)

Luckily, your tuner is apparently happy to tell you how clean your signal is, and how strong. So... good news! Unfortunately, percent means nothing as there is no standard way to convert dB to percent. (Percent is relative, and dB is absolute. Did the manufacturer tell you what corresponds to 0%? Nope, didn't think so.) So your quality measurement will just tell you how good your signal is relative to some unknown zero point. But it should be good enough for a relative measurement, and to point your antenna.

WLS announced tests for 6:23 AM and 6:23 PM Thursday, March 12, presumably for five minutes each like the others.

(There shouldn't have been anything left to test at this point.  Congress bites.  It's almost a source of pride that my district's seat in the House of Reprehensibles is vacant.)

I can't wait to find out that my TV is set up perfectly for 2025.

(There shouldn't have been anything left to test at this point.* Congress bites.* It's almost a source of pride that my district's seat in the House of Reprehensibles is vacant.)


You've had so many "winners" represent you in that district :) Sorry.

Here's an idea: the government should make sure all the stores are well stocked with converter boxes. Then they should turn off all the analogs in an area for 3 days, giving an excuse like all the transmitters blew after a storm or something (why not - it worked for going to war with an uninvolved country after 9/11).

Round up some prisoners, and have them follow the slow-moving herd of fat, lazy people to the stores with brooms, sweeping up the trails of falling potato chips and Doritos behind them as they waddle all the way there.

Here's an idea: the government should make sure all the stores are well stocked with converter boxes. Then they should turn off all the analogs in an area for 3 days, giving an excuse like all the transmitters blew after a storm or something (why not - it worked for going to war with an uninvolved country after 9/11).

Round up some prisoners, and have them follow the slow-moving herd of fat, lazy people to the stores with brooms, sweeping up the trails of falling potato chips and Doritos behind them as they waddle all the way there.

:eek::D

:eek::D

One thing about Ramm: there isn't any doubt where he stands on an issue. :D

Would I be better off connecting the antenna to my DirecTV box or directly to my Samsung A650 ATSC tuner? My antenna is pretty old and I am about 23 miles from downtown.

Which DirecTV box? If you're using an H20 or HR20, the OTA portion of it won't work if you're not getting guide data for the OTA channels from the satellite. There is no "channel scan" like on most ATSC tuners - if there is no guide data, the OTA channels stop working. Just mentioning this if you're thinking of using it as a backup to the satellite signal.

If you have one of the new standalone AM-21 boxes, I don't know if they have the same restriction.

If you Samsung is no more than 2 or 3 years old, it's at least as good as the DirecTV box for OTA performance - I'd say go with that.

Or get a splitter and hook them both up to the antenna.

Which DirecTV box? If you're using an H20 or HR20, the OTA portion of it won't work if you're not getting guide data for the OTA channels from the satellite. There is no "channel scan" like on most ATSC tuners - if there is no guide data, the OTA channels stop working.

If you have one of the new standalone AM-21 boxes, I don't know if they have the same restriction.

If you Samsung is no more than 2 or 3 years old, it's at least as good as the DirecTV box for OTA performance - I'd say go with that.

Or get a splitter and hook them both up to the antenna.

I would use the Samsung tuner, I have the A550 model and the tuner is great. My older Samsung's couldn't lock WWME-LD, but the A550 can lock it(usually only 1 or 2 bars out of 10), but the signal is reliable about 85% of the time. Analog 2 is also very clear on the A550.

WLS announced tests for 6:23 AM and 6:23 PM Thursday, March 12, presumably for five minutes each like the others.

(There shouldn't have been anything left to test at this point.* Congress bites.* It's almost a source of pride that my district's seat in the House of Reprehensibles is vacant.)

LOL! True that, Dattier. I just learned that ALL stations in Chicago are doing this. So, WLS is a part of the crowd for this one.

Which DirecTV box? If you're using an H20 or HR20, the OTA portion of it won't work if you're not getting guide data for the OTA channels from the satellite. There is no "channel scan" like on most ATSC tuners - if there is no guide data, the OTA channels stop working.

NOT true on the H20 - they WILL scan for OTA signals. But DO note the receiver MUST be actually active on an account to get anything OTA; if it is turned off, the OTA tuner is disabled as well.

Very true on the HR20 - the guide data must be populated to receive those channels.

If you have one of the new standalone AM-21 boxes, I don't know if they have the same restriction.

Same restrictions as on the HR20's...

Or get a splitter and hook them both up to the antenna.

+1

(There shouldn't have been anything left to test at this point.* Congress bites.* It's almost a source of pride that my district's seat in the House of Reprehensibles is vacant.)

Not for long it isn't.

Which DirecTV box? If you're using an H20 or HR20, the OTA portion of it won't work if you're not getting guide data for the OTA channels from the satellite. There is no "channel scan" like on most ATSC tuners - if there is no guide data, the OTA channels stop working. Just mentioning this if you're thinking of using it as a backup to the satellite signal.

If you have one of the new standalone AM-21 boxes, I don't know if they have the same restriction.


The Directv H20 receivers DO scan ota and will show any channel in the area although if it's not listed in the Directv guide it will not show the program information. I have two of them that pick up unlisted stations. For whatever reason though all of the recent Weigel station remaps have both receivers totally confused. 23-1 (rf 39) no longer shows up (it used to before the changes) and they show 48-1 as MeTv channel 23 via WCIU DT 27. George Mari is right about the AM-21 receivers, they will only allow you to receive channels which Directv has in their guide data.

Not for long it isn't.Nope, and I'm sure that all three candidates in the April 7 election believe in analog TV forever.

Maybe I should sell some Digital HD ready coat hangers because your old coat hangers won't receive digital. ;) :D

LOL! I wonder if Dollar store is jacking the price on the metal coat hanger and cooling rack and lable it "HD Ready" to make extra few bucks.

Willie

Here's an idea: the government should make sure all the stores are well stocked with converter boxes. Then they should turn off all the analogs in an area for 3 days, giving an excuse like all the transmitters blew after a storm or something (why not - it worked for going to war with an uninvolved country after 9/11).

Round up some prisoners, and have them follow the slow-moving herd of fat, lazy people to the stores with brooms, sweeping up the trails of falling potato chips and Doritos behind them as they waddle all the way there.

LOL!

The Big wind was sure blowing last night. That would been good time for the maintenance work done on last Monday just make sure the analog antenna clamps is turn back about 20 turns or guy cable is loosen up ( :eek: oops I mean tighten up) or the base mount is checked too :rolleyes:.

hvs10trk might want to be somewhere safe so the antenna don't land in his back yard :D

Willie

The Directv H20 receivers DO scan ota and will show any channel in the area although if it's not listed in the Directv guide it will not show the program information. I have two of them that pick up unlisted stations. For whatever reason though all of the recent Weigel station remaps have both receivers totally confused. 23-1 (rf 39) no longer shows up (it used to before the changes) and they show 48-1 as MeTv channel 23 via WCIU DT 27. George Mari is right about the AM-21 receivers, they will only allow you to receive channels which Directv has in their guide data.

My HR-20 has the normal 23.1 (rf-39), 26.1 is missing completely and 48.1 has the guide data and programming of 26.1.

My HR-20 has the normal 23.1 (rf-39), 26.1 is missing completely and 48.1 has the guide data and programming of 26.1.
ColonelJulius, if you do a rescan, does it clear it up?

I just saw tonight that WSNS (44.1) is now HD and 44.2 is an SD version of it.

I saw again tonight that WCIU's video still studders. The audio seems okay but to me it is unwatchable. I hope this gets fixed before the baseball season starts!

I just saw tonight that WSNS (44.1) is now HD and 44.2 is an SD version of it.

Nice catch. They have tweaking to do: the soccer game they are carrying has jagged edges on fast camera pans, and 44.2 reads "WSNS-HD". All in good time to fix.

44.2 reads "WSNS HD". ... while the actual 1080i channel, 44.1, still is labeled "WSNS-DT."

Edit: this morning (2009-03-12) 44.1 is now "WSNS-HD" and 44.2 is now "WSNS-DT" as they should be.  I had trouble getting some of my tuners to update, but that's probably not WSNS's fault.

so what kind of content will 44.1 broadcast in 1080i now ?

hvs10trk might want to be somewhere safe so the antenna don't land in his back yard :DI'm surprised my antenna didn't end up in his back yard, since he's just across town from me.

Yup
WFLD FOX 32 is under construction upgrading the studio n control room ;-)

Looks like it will take 2 months to complete.. :cool:

WLS announced tests for 6:23 AM and 6:23 PM Thursday, March 12, presumably for five minutes each like the others.

(There shouldn't have been anything left to test at this point.* Congress bites.* It's almost a source of pride that my district's seat in the House of Reprehensibles is vacant.)

I have to agree we should have been full digital for almost a month now, but because of the whiners that will whine again in June there is the delay. I have 2 converter boxes for almost a year now and a new Sharp AQUOS 1080P HDTV to watch digital on. If I can do it why are there excuses?? I call it laziness of the dumbed down American public and our so called lawmakers kissing there a**s.

ColonelJulius, if you do a rescan, does it clear it up?

In my experiences with the H-20 receivers, rescanning does not clear things up. Sometimes 23-1 comes back via rf 27 and 26-1 moves to 48-1. Rescan again and 23-1 goes away completely and shows up on 48-1 via rf 27 and 26-1 comes back. I cannot get rf 39 to show up anymore no matter how many times I rescan. Things worked fine the "old" way.

I'm surprised my antenna didn't end up in his back yard, since he's just across town from me.

My garbage cans were close. :eek:

so what kind of content will 44.1 broadcast in 1080i now ?Same thing that 20.1 broadcasts in 1080i and that we can expect 38.1 to broadcast in 720p: pillarboxed upconversions of 480i material.

Same thing that 20.1 broadcasts in 1080i and that we can expect 38.1 to broadcast in 720p: pillarboxed upconversions of 480i material.

ION has a few HD feeds up on the satellite that they feed from. Im not sure if they are using all upconverted material to these feeds or not. I dont have a HD satellite receiver for DVB, only SD so I don't get the HD picture only the SD ones. Until I see the HD broadcasts on 38.1 I won't be able to tell. I can tell you that ION split there feeds now to two transponders so they don't bitstarve the HD feeds so they should be pumping some decent bandwidth to there 38.1 HD channel.

i was flipping though the channels and it had a message on my tv it says that my tv is not ready for DTV transition.well guess what i am connected though mediacom my cable company so i do not have to worry about it.it was showing the message on channel 7

thanks

ColonelJulius, if you do a rescan, does it clear it up?

I have rescanned several times with no luck including last night. Going to try again now.

Reset off air settings, rebooted the receiver, ran the initial setup again and still have the same result.

Not that I watch Spanish language programming, but I tried rescanning to get the new 44 DT arrangement. Came in fine on the 4th gen Sammy. The Tivo Series 3 won't pick up 44-2 on rescan, and while the signal level is the usual super-high on 44-1 it cannot get a program lock. I've seen the Tivo balk on 38 and 50, but usually a rescan restores the program lock on those channels. It just doesn't seem to like 44 at all however.

By the end of the summer there will be no TV transmitters on Sears Tower.  They'll be on Willis Tower instead.

By the end of the summer there will be no TV transmitters on Sears Tower.* They'll be on Willis Tower instead.What you talking about Willis? (And on Googling it seems I'm not the first to think that. Great, a Chicago icon is being replaced by memories of a campy sitcom.)

I'm surprised the "Sears" name stuck as long as it did, considering Sears left 17 years ago.

At least the transmitters are not really moving ... call the building what you want, the transmitters are staying. :)

Having known a family surnamed Willis twenty-odd years before "Diff'rent Strokes" premiered, that never even occurred to me.  For me it's just another name, and neither Todd Bridges's character on that show nor Gary Coleman's invocations to him spring to my mind when I hear it.

Come to think of it, though, the character's name was Willis Jackson, and the future Willis Tower is along Jackson Boulevard at 233 S. Wacker Drive.

i was flipping though the channels and it had a message on my tv it says that my tv is not ready for DTV transition.well guess what i am connected though mediacom my cable company so i do not have to worry about it.it was showing the message on channel 7

thanksYou should be OK with cable, but who knows with Mediacom, they are one step up from two tin cans and a string.....

yesterday afternoon all of the chicago stations were out the only ones i could get is 2,7,9 thats about it and them about 10pm or 11pm they all came on.so something went wrong.trust me i do not like mediacom at all and i wish we had comcast in there neck of the woods my parents like cable and i like directv.

Reset off air settings, rebooted the receiver, ran the initial setup again and still have the same result.

I have done the same thing several times, the Directv ota tuners simply cannot decipher the newer WCIU/WWME remaps correctly.

I have done the same thing several times, the Directv ota tuners simply cannot decipher the newer WCIU/WWME remaps correctly.

We like to keep them on their toes.

I have done the same thing several times, the Directv ota tuners simply cannot decipher the newer WCIU/WWME remaps correctly.


I have Directv and have not had any issues with the remaps. It sounds like its your equipment possibly as I can get everything fine here.

OK, it's now Sunday, March 15.  Should we still expect WCPX-DT to start broadcasting 38.1 in 720p tomorrow?  I'll be highly surprised if they do.

OK, it's now Sunday, March 15.* Should we still expect WCPX-DT to start broadcasting 38.1 in 720p tomorrow?* I'll be highly surprised if they do.

WPXL in New Orleans was doing 720p for a while today I think; might still be doing it actually. I think it's probably happening.

EDIT: And Atlanta.

- Trip

WPXL in New Orleans was doing 720p for a while today I think; might still be doing it actually. I think it's probably happening.

EDIT: And Atlanta.Maybe it's migrating slowly northward like the killer bees.  It's still 480i in Chicago.

maybe it's migrating slowly northward like the killer bees.* it's still 480i in chicago.

lmao :d

With a nod to the late Paul Harvey: Here is a strange.......From the New England media watchdog www.fybush.com comes this note about our friends on LPTV channel 6, along with the obvious question: What happens to your "radio" station when you convert to WLFM-LD?

From www.fybush.com :

And one more note from the bottom of the dial: even as Mega Media struggles to find financial success with the audio carrier of its pseudo-FM station WNYZ-LP (Channel 6), which it operates as dance outlet "Pulse 87," it's now looking to expand the "Pulse" concept to other big markets. Mega has signed a deal with LPTV operator Venture Technologies to lease two other channel 6 outlets - WLFM-LP in Chicago and KSFV-CA in Los Angeles - which will soon begin operating as "Pulse 87" as well.

Which DirecTV box? If you're using an H20 or HR20, the OTA portion of it won't work if you're not getting guide data for the OTA channels from the satellite. There is no "channel scan" like on most ATSC tuners - if there is no guide data, the OTA channels stop working. Just mentioning this if you're thinking of using it as a backup to the satellite signal.

If you have one of the new standalone AM-21 boxes, I don't know if they have the same restriction.


The H20 DOES have a channel scan. The HR20 and AM21 do not and get their channel data from zap2it.com

Hello All,
Sorry for hijacking this thread but just joined today and been trying to find some info on the reception problem with the U. The problem is with the video, keeps studdering every second. 26.1 only. .2,.3,.4,.6 all work fine as do all other channels. I just noticed this about 2-3 weeks ago. I have a Sony HD LCD TV with built in digital tuner. I have sent emails to the U, they responded with "what type of converter box do you have?" After I told them I didn't, they never got back to me altho I sent them another email, that was last week. Just wondering if anybody else is having this problem or is everybody having this problem and maybe the U can respond with what they're doing about it. They know about it.
Thanks

It looks like the program info on all of the WCIU channels is one hour AHEAD of what's actually airing. As of 11:30am, for example, MeToo has Lucy, but says Eight is Enough. I see this both on a TV with Comcast clearQAM, and with the DTT901 converter. Neither has any real long-term memory. In fact, the DTT is typically unplugged except when experimenting.

The HR20 and AM21 do not and get their channel data from zap2it.com
Almost. DirecTV gets the data from Tribune Media Services and sends it down from satellites at 101 and 119 degrees West.

It looks like the program info on all of the WCIU channels is one hour AHEAD of what's actually airing. As of 11:30am, for example, MeToo has Lucy, but says Eight is Enough. I see this both on a TV with Comcast clearQAM, and with the DTT901 converter. Neither has any real long-term memory. In fact, the DTT is typically unplugged except when experimenting.

Noticed that too. Fixed as of 12:30p.

Hello All,
Sorry for hijacking this thread but just joined today and been trying to find some info on the reception problem with the U. The problem is with the video, keeps studdering every second. 26.1 only. .2,.3,.4,.6 all work fine as do all other channels. I just noticed this about 2-3 weeks ago. I have a Sony HD LCD TV with built in digital tuner. I have sent emails to the U, they responded with "what type of converter box do you have?" After I told them I didn't, they never got back to me altho I sent them another email, that was last week. Just wondering if anybody else is having this problem or is everybody having this problem and maybe the U can respond with what they're doing about it. They know about it.
Thanks

Hi Tarver,
We are aware of the problem. It is good to know tuner makes/models as this problem affects some products more than others. At the present we are working on it but unfortunately there's no quick fix to it. Please bear with us until we can find a solution. Out of curiosity, what model is your Sony TV?

Almost. DirecTV gets the data from Tribune Media Services and sends it down from satellites at 101 and 119 degrees West.

zap2it.com is the subsiduary of Tribune Media Services that handles the D* guide, at least that's what they told me when I emailed them to make corrections to the D* channel mappings. Talk about a pain in the ... The lack of a channel scan on the new ATSC D* receivers is stupid.

Just wondering if it's my setup or something more general. Does anyone have problems with ch7 and ch32 audio? Ch32 is real low and ch7 sounds like its got max compression. Commerical/scene cuts start out ear-splitting and then quickly ramp down to normal.

Hello! I recently moved to Chicago, and have an apartment in Bucktown (Western and Fullerton area), which is about 4 miles NW of downtown. I have been having very mixed results with OTA HD reception, and was hoping that someone could point me in the right direction. My apartment is on the third floor of a four floor building, and has a brick exterior. I first tried an old set of rabbit ears, which worked somewhat well, but were really inconsistent. Then I built the UHF DIY antenna that everyone raves about:

http://uhfhdtvantenna.blogspot.com/

Mine is similar, but minus the foil backing. It is definitely better than the rabbit ears, but is still fairly inconsistent. For example, on Monday night, 7.1 ABC was completely unwatchable due to pixelation/freezes. I have also had nights where is was perfect, though, so it's really unpredictable. I can't get 2.1 CBS at all, but I'm guessing that's a VHF thing?

Are there any GOOD indoor antennas that will be able to pick up the local HD signals? I'd prefer to not mount anything on the roof, as I'm just renting. ANY input would be greatly appreciated!

Jeff

Hello! I recently moved to Chicago, and have an apartment in Bucktown (Western and Fullerton area), which is about 4 miles NW of downtown. I have been having very mixed results with OTA HD reception, and was hoping that someone could point me in the right direction. My apartment is on the third floor of a four floor building, and has a brick exterior. I first tried an old set of rabbit ears, which worked somewhat well, but were really inconsistent. Then I built the UHF DIY antenna that everyone raves about:

http://uhfhdtvantenna.blogspot.com/

Mine is similar, but minus the foil backing. It is definitely better than the rabbit ears, but is still fairly inconsistent. For example, on Monday night, 7.1 ABC was completely unwatchable due to pixelation/freezes. I have also had nights where is was perfect, though, so it's really unpredictable. I can't get 2.1 CBS at all, but I'm guessing that's a VHF thing?

Are there any GOOD indoor antennas that will be able to pick up the local HD signals? I'd prefer to not mount anything on the roof, as I'm just renting. ANY input would be greatly appreciated!

Jeff

You built a UHF antenna, but channels 7 and 2 are VHF. So you'll probably need to build a VHF antenna (or at least add VHF elements) and use a combiner to merge the signal from the UHF and VHF antennas.

You built a UHF antenna, but channels 7 and 2 are VHF. So you'll probably need to build a VHF antenna (or at least add VHF elements) and use a combiner to merge the signal from the UHF and VHF antennas.

So this antenna will only work above channel 13? Or am I missing something. Am I just lucky to be getting 7.1 at all?

Is there an antenna I can just buy that will work well? I'm getting tired of monkeying around with this :)

7.1 is actually on UHF 52, but 2.1 is on Low-VHF 3.

UHF bow-ties can sometimes work for upper VHF (7-13), but Low VHF (2-6) is much further out of its range (though I've heard reports of Low-VHF working on them - rarely).

For future use, what do analog 7, 9 & 11 look like? (RF 7 and 12 will be needed, post-transition)

I wouldn't spend a lot of time trying to get WBBM right now as they will be moving to 12 in June, assuming the government stops the current "circus" (doesn't delay it again).

7.1 is actually on UHF 52, but 2.1 is on Low-VHF 3.

UHF bow-ties can sometimes work for upper VHF (7-13), but Low VHF (2-6) is much further out of its range (though I've heard reports of Low-VHF working on them - rarely).

For future use, what do analog 7, 9 & 11 look like? (RF 7 and 12 will be needed, post-transition)

I wouldn't spend a lot of time trying to get WBBM right now as they will be moving to 12 in June, assuming the government stops the current "circus" (doesn't delay it again).

Analog looks decent. I usually switch to that when the digital is flakey.

I have a feeling that it's not mainly the antenna that's the reason for your poor reception.

Have you put a long (12-25 ft. or more) piece of coax on it and tried moving it to different spots in the apt., and at different levels of height? Is there a window facing the towers anywhere in the apt. that you can run the antenna over to, to point the antenna out of?

Having brick walls is not conducive, for one thing. If you have buildings blocking you, that could effectively kill it.

Digital's different from analog. With analog, even with some multipath you can still get a watchable signal. With digital and multipath, you could easily get nil.

Real busy guys, wish I could get in on more of the discussions, but have to mention:

http://www.tvtechnology.com/article/76370

WYCC-TV 20 Chicago and WWTO-TV 35 Ottawa, IL sign off 4/16/09.

Additionally, WILL-TV 12 in Champaign signs off 3/31, but because WISN-TV 12 in Milwaukee isn't doing so, WBBM can't flash-cut to 12 early.

Finally, WHA-TV 21 Madison signs off on 4/5/09. So, starting 4/16, northwest suburban folks might get WHA-DT 20 in tropo.

Hello! I recently moved to Chicago, and have an apartment in Bucktown (Western and Fullerton area),...... I first tried an old set of rabbit ears, which worked somewhat well, but were really inconsistent. Then I built the UHF DIY antenna that everyone raves about:
http://uhfhdtvantenna.blogspot.com/
Mine is similar, but minus the foil backing. It is definitely better than the rabbit ears, but is still fairly inconsistent....... I can't get 2.1 CBS at all, but I'm guessing that's a VHF thing?.....Are there any GOOD indoor antennas that will be able to pick up the local HD signals? I'd prefer to not mount anything on the roof, as I'm just renting. ANY input would be greatly appreciated! Jeff

i agree....put a longer coax cable on the antenna and then experiment with different locations and positions in each location > in a closet....or behind or under a couch or cabinet, near a window, etc...and do the same with the rabbit ears....

and ch 2 will probably come in well for u after june 12th when they move from ch 3 to ch 12....

Thanks for the comments! I have the antenna on a fairly long cable, and was ready to try different placements last night, but then it worked perfectly all night. Figures! Right now I have it sitting in a window which is more or less at a 45 degree angle from the Sears Tower/Hancock tower, which is as good as it's going to get. If it starts acting up again, I'll try moving it around a bit and let you know what happens.

Thanks again!
Jeff

And then last night it was terrible. I tried watching The Office on 5.1, and it was cutting out so bad that I ended up playing the 360 instead. Nothing was different than Wednesday night; nice weather, antenna in the same place, etc, but it was a night and day difference from Wednesday. Frustrating...

Has anyone tried the Winehouse SS-3000?

I guess if it can stay sober long enough it might work.

Doh! Meant the Winegard SS-3000 :)

Has anyone tried the Winehouse SS-3000?

No, but I hear they fall completely to pieces in under five years and look like walking death! :D

Is anyone else seeing about a 100ms delay on WYCC-SD (20.2) between the audio and video? I noticed it a few months ago, then it seemed to disappear, and now it seems as though it's back.

I can adjust the offset between the audio & video so it looks right on playback, but it's a tad annoying to do every time I watch the channel.

I have a Winegard SS-3000 (Super Shooter) on a china cabinet in a one-story ranch in Lombard. It does better than I would have guessed. Of course, I can forget about ch. 2-1 and it can lose signals if I walk too close to it, but I'm 20 miles from Sears Tower.

Since you're about 4 miles from the transmitters, it could work for you and WBBM-DT will come in after June 12.

I don't use mine since I put an antenna on the roof (a Winegard, too). You want to buy a SS-3000 cheap? :p

You want to buy a SS-3000 cheap? :pAh, yes - the benefits of an online community.

I guess we should all write Al Gore and thank him. ;)

Ah, yes - the benefits of an online community.

I guess we should all write Al Gore and thank him. ;)

Where else could we debate the merits of DTV via OTA vs cable vs DBS vs IPTV. Personally I have tried them all and its all the same to me.

WYCC is now running spots that it is cutting off analog at 6 AM on April 16.  Since their PSIP clock is still an hour slow for failing to recognize DST, that might mean 7 AM.

Ah, yes - the benefits of an online community.

I guess we should all write Al Gore and thank him. ;)
I was replying to jubjub75's request for info on the SS-3000.

And then last night it was terrible.....Nothing was different than Wednesday night; nice weather, antenna in the same place, etc, but it was a night and day difference from Wednesday. Frustrating...Has anyone tried the Winehouse SS-3000?

hmmmm.....but did u try different antenna locations and positions in each location? and then try the same with the rabbit ears? i suspect u didnt....dont buy anything new until u do....

youre only 4 miles from the transmitters so u have great signal levels! youre almost guaranteed success if u experiment a little....

youre only 4 miles from the transmitters so u have great signal levels! youre almost guaranteed success if u experiment a little....


The only problem being that close your prone to multipath (ghosts) which can play havoc with digital locking and being stable.

The only problem being that close your prone to multipath (ghosts) which can play havoc with digital locking and being stable.

yes....you're right.....but i think the multipath would have to be really really nasty to be so destructive as to induce enough data stream bit rate errors to cause visible problems....and even if it was that bad for one channel it probably would not be that bad on all or most of the other channels...

jubjub75 didnt mention what model or age of tuner he is using but if its older it may not be as good at dealing with multipath as the newer generations...i think one of the latest dtv tuner chipset improvements is better multipath rejection capability....

I was replying to jubjub75's request for info on the SS-3000.Yes, I know, and the first part was meant sincerely.

(The second line was definitely satirical, but it wasn't meant towards you.)

Where else could we debate the merits of DTV via OTA vs cable vs DBS vs IPTV. Personally I have tried them all and its all the same to me.Except maybe the bit-rates. ;)

Except maybe the bit-rates. ;)

Ramm, its always about the numbers for you, isn't it?? :D:D

yes....you're right.....but i think the multipath would have to be really really nasty to be so destructive as to induce enough data stream bit rate errors to cause visible problems....and even if it was that bad for one channel it probably would not be that bad on all or most of the other channels...

jubjub75 didnt mention what model or age of tuner he is using but if its older it may not be as good at dealing with multipath as the newer generations...i think one of the latest dtv tuner chipset improvements is better multipath rejection capability....

I grew up in multipath city...there's a big ghost caused by the John Hancock signals bouncing off Sears and goes right through the north side and the near north suburbs. In Lincolnwood, I got used to the big line on the right hand side of any Hancock channel.

My mother-in-law's house in Skokie is worse. In addition to having this problem, she's on low ground...even a roof top antenna didn't help much. I was able to install a converter on her set...got a Zenith indoor antenna along with a 15db power amp and placed it in the window facing downtown and it appears to be working, including Channel 2.

As others have stated here, a lot of it is placement and expermentation.

Cheers to all

I don't use mine since I put an antenna on the roof (a Winegard, too). You want to buy a SS-3000 cheap? :p

I might be interested...PM me with a price :)

hmmmm.....but did u try different antenna locations and positions in each location? and then try the same with the rabbit ears? i suspect u didnt....dont buy anything new until u do....

youre only 4 miles from the transmitters so u have great signal levels! youre almost guaranteed success if u experiment a little....

I have tried a few different spots, but definitely not all of them. The annoying part is that I usually forget about it until I want to watch a show, and then I don't want to mess with it :)

yes....you're right.....but i think the multipath would have to be really really nasty to be so destructive as to induce enough data stream bit rate errors to cause visible problems....and even if it was that bad for one channel it probably would not be that bad on all or most of the other channels...

jubjub75 didnt mention what model or age of tuner he is using but if its older it may not be as good at dealing with multipath as the newer generations...i think one of the latest dtv tuner chipset improvements is better multipath rejection capability....

How can you tell if you're getting multipath or just bad reception?

I am using the built in tuner in my Olevia 537-B11. I don't know a lot about tuners (I used cable at our last place), but this one is probably a little over two years old.

The only problem being that close your prone to multipath (ghosts) which can play havoc with digital locking and being stable.

What are the symptoms of multipath?

Again, thanks for all the suggestions/help!!
Jeff

What are the symptoms of multipath?



Multipath in the digital domain would show up as erratic signal quality. The picture falling in and out at cliff effect levels. As the reflections cancel out the main beam this would create errors, some the tuner could not recover from. On an analog signal you would see ghosting, picture flutter etc.

I might be interested...PM me with a price :)
I've been shopping at ANTonline (http://www.antonline.com/p_Winegard--SS-3000--WINEGARD-SS-3000-AMPLIFIED-INDOOR-U-V-ANTENNA-_528548.htm) lately and they have the SS-3000 for $41.18 plus $9.26 shipping. If you really wanted to save half off the price for my used one, you would still have to pick it up in Lombard (home) or South Loop (work) to save the shipping.

I was curious if there was any update on the WCIU Video Stuttering problem. I tried to watch the Bulls game last night but the video stopped with every dribble of the ball.

Just as an FYI - my Sony HD set is just over three years old. A couple of weeks ago I went over to ABT in Glenview and visited the Sony Store (inside ABT). I asked them if they were having problems with 26.1 and the sales person said he would check. He turned several sets to 26.1 and they had the same problem that I had at home. So it appears that the problem is found in both old and new Sony models. The salesperson made the comment to me that the signal appeared to be bit starved. The picture seems to freeze with any amount of motion.

I have a Sony DVD Recorder and I tried using it as a tuner last night. It works fine! But it is SD widescreen and not HD.

Hope this helps!

I was curious if there was any update on the WCIU Video Stuttering problem. I tried to watch the Bulls game last night but the video stopped with every dribble of the ball.

Just as an FYI - my Sony HD set is just over three years old. A couple of weeks ago I went over to ABT in Glenview and visited the Sony Store (inside ABT). I asked them if they were having problems with 26.1 and the sales person said he would check. He turned several sets to 26.1 and they had the same problem that I had at home. So it appears that the problem is found in both old and new Sony models. The salesperson made the comment to me that the signal appeared to be bit starved. The picture seems to freeze with any amount of motion.

I have a Sony DVD Recorder and I tried using it as a tuner last night. It works fine! But it is SD widescreen and not HD.

Hope this helps!

No update as of now other than we keep trying different fixes and, well, you can see its not making it too far. We're really trying to find the "needle in the haystack" if you know what I mean. Different tuners respond in different ways. My Samsung SIR t451 responds the same way your Sony does, but my new Samsung LCD doesn't do it. It only goes into fast forward mode for certain commercials.

Are the new WCIU mappings causing problems with other DirecTV OTA receivers? I scanned and got everything (even the new 48-1) except.... 26-1.
Imagine that. Any idea why? I have a D* H20 (it has an OTA and channel scan feature, it doesn't just get the mappings from the guide).

I bit the bullet and bought one of these:

http://www.solidsignal.com/prod_display.asp?PROD=ANC3010KIT

Does anyone think the J arm is enough support, given the wind around here? Should I go get a tripod or a chimney mount? I'm a little worried about using a chimney mount, since it seems that there are some plastic parts on this.

No update as of now other than we keep trying different fixes and, well, you can see its not making it too far. We're really trying to find the "needle in the haystack" if you know what I mean. Different tuners respond in different ways. My Samsung SIR t451 responds the same way your Sony does, but my new Samsung LCD doesn't do it. It only goes into fast forward mode for certain commercials.
Thank you for the update. It sounds like the equipment the station has is bleeding edge. That's probably good but things needs to be backward compatable. If not, then I have to wonder what good something is if everyone can't watch it. Especially considering the fact that all other Chicago OTA Stations are watchable. Although they may lack the picture quality they are watchable.

I was curious if there was any update on the WCIU Video Stuttering problem. I tried to watch the Bulls game last night but the video stopped with every dribble of the ball.

The Bulls game came in fine for me, but afterwards when Bernie Mac was on it was a stuttering fool (the video was, audio didnt)

This was on my Sammy LN46A550.

Are the new WCIU mappings causing problems with other DirecTV OTA receivers? I scanned and got everything (even the new 48-1) except.... 26-1.
Imagine that. Any idea why? I have a D* H20 (it has an OTA and channel scan feature, it doesn't just get the mappings from the guide).

A big YES! I have mentioned it a few times here before. My H20-100 receives nothing for 23-1 (or 23-2) anymore. 26-1 through 26-6 are fine. 48-1 shows programming from WWME (MeTv) via rf 27. My H20-600 recieves 23-1 and 23-2 fine but does not show 26-1. I have to tune to 48-1 to recieve 26-1. I absolutely hate these new remaps. Channel rescans do not fix the problem. Neither receivers picks up the correct channel (MeToo) on 48-1. The old way worked beautifully.

I was curious if there was any update on the WCIU Video Stuttering problem. I tried to watch the Bulls game last night but the video stopped with every dribble of the ball.

Just as an FYI - my Sony HD set is just over three years old. A couple of weeks ago I went over to ABT in Glenview and visited the Sony Store (inside ABT). I asked them if they were having problems with 26.1 and the sales person said he would check. He turned several sets to 26.1 and they had the same problem that I had at home. So it appears that the problem is found in both old and new Sony models. The salesperson made the comment to me that the signal appeared to be bit starved. The picture seems to freeze with any amount of motion.

I have a Sony DVD Recorder and I tried using it as a tuner last night. It works fine! But it is SD widescreen and not HD.

Hope this helps!

Hmm...Neither my Sony or Samsung tv have any problems with video stutter on WCIU-DT but both do have video stutter on WPWR-DT when the programming is film based whether it's hd or sd.

Hello, Is there any hope of channels getting better after the conversion? I am so sick of the digital channels coming in so badly, like 7.1 and 26.1 and there are others. I will really miss analog tv. I will be saying, those were the good old days, the days of analog tv.

Hello, Is there any hope of channels getting better after the conversion? I am so sick of the digital channels coming in so badly, like 7.1 and 26.1 and there are others. I will really miss analog tv. I will be saying, those were the good old days, the days of analog tv.

Digital tv is all or nothing, when it's there it can be great when its not well... The days of analog are just about over and nothing we can do to bring them back. 7.1 will be moving to VHF 7 so it could improve for you. 26 is in it's full digital power now on ch 27. Short of improving your antenna system to receive digital OTA better the only other options you will have are cable etc.

The Bulls game came in fine for me, but afterwards when Bernie Mac was on it was a stuttering fool (the video was, audio didnt)

This was on my Sammy LN46A550.

You like your TV? I got the LN46A630.

A big YES! I have mentioned it a few times here before. My H20-100 receives nothing for 23-1 (or 23-2) anymore. 26-1 through 26-6 are fine. 48-1 shows programming from WWME (MeTv) via rf 27. My H20-600 recieves 23-1 and 23-2 fine but does not show 26-1. I have to tune to 48-1 to recieve 26-1. I absolutely hate these new remaps. Channel rescans do not fix the problem. Neither receivers picks up the correct channel (MeToo) on 48-1. The old way worked beautifully.

Perhaps WCIU should go back to the old mapping. There seems to be an issue that many of us have with this scheme. I don't want to be left out in the cold with SD (getting WCIU off the dish) watching Cubs games.

Perhaps WCIU should go back to the old mapping. There seems to be an issue that many of us have with this scheme. I don't want to be left out in the cold with SD (getting WCIU off the dish) watching Cubs games.

Well if only Direct TV would get with the program. :rolleyes:

I havent had any issues with the mapings, but I agree on your comment about D* getting with the program as I would wrather have a reciver that I can actually scan my locals in.

Looks like WLS has gone on the fritz tonight, with audio issues and now it looks like WLS is in SD mode over HD.

Well if only Direct TV would get with the program. :rolleyes:

Maybe it's a cart before the horse thing.... I mean, maybe they don't carry it because the channels studder like a mudder fudder. :)

That wasn't "just a stutter" going there during the game the other night. It was completely and utterly unwatchable.

When they turn off the analog signal, I don't know what I'm going to do if they can't get that fixed. There's absolutely no way I will watch that, as I don't do it now. Seems like this has been going on for at least a year now. If they really can't fix it themselves using their "needle in a haystack" approach, isn't there someone else they can hire that may be able to do so? Do they realize how much viewership they may be losing because of that? Isn't there anybody from the company who built the equipment that might know more? Isn't the equipment insured or warrantied?

All I know is that whatever they tried the other night, DON'T do that again. Those were by far the worst results I've seen so far. There were HUGE gaps of motion missing there.

I do get varying results on all my tuners, but none were immune from that fiasco the other night.

Hello, Is there any hope of channels getting better after the conversion? I am so sick of the digital channels coming in so badly, like 7.1 and 26.1 and there are others. I will really miss analog tv. I will be saying, those were the good old days, the days of analog tv.

u need to tell us how far away u are from your local tv transmitters....or tell us your zip code...and what kind of antenna and tuner/converter box are u are using?....we'll do what we can to help u...

unless u are in very unusual situation theres an excellent chance u can get great digital reception with an antenna ...and without a lot of trouble or expense....

That wasn't "just a stutter" going there during the game the other night. It was completely and utterly unwatchable.

When they turn off the analog signal, I don't know what I'm going to do if they can't get that fixed. There's absolutely no way I will watch that, as I don't do it now. Seems like this has been going on for at least a year now. If they really can't fix it themselves using their "needle in a haystack" approach, isn't there someone else they can hire that may be able to do so? Do they realize how much viewership they may be losing because of that? Isn't there anybody from the company who built the equipment that might know more? Isn't the equipment insured or warrantied?

All I know is that whatever they tried the other night, DON'T do that again. Those were by far the worst results I've seen so far. There were HUGE gaps of motion missing there.

I do get varying results on all my tuners, but none were immune from that fiasco the other night.

We have several of our vendors as well as several DTV tuner manufacturers working on the issue along with us.

We have several of our vendors as well as several DTV tuner manufacturers working on the issue along with us.

Ain't digital just great :rolleyes:

Analog Rocks :D

Well if only Direct TV would get with the program. :rolleyes:

I'm not going to disagree with you on that one, but D* claims they are a "satellite" not OTA company. The reality is that it will be a long time, if ever, that they can handle the mappings properly as configured today. Many will be stuck with the problem if the mappings are left as is.

I do like the thought, it just doesn't jive well with the D* receivers and who knows how many other older converter boxes.

u need to tell us how far away u are from your local tv transmitters....or tell us your zip code...and what kind of antenna and tuner/converter box are u are using?....we'll do what we can to help u...

unless u are in very unusual situation theres an excellent chance u can get great digital reception with an antenna ...and without a lot of trouble or expense....
My zipcode is 46383 and my antenna info is: Winegard CA 7082 and CA 9065, CC 7870 (coupler antenna), AP 8700 Preamp 75ohm and one 4 way splitter. Purchased 10/14/99.
Thanks for your help.

My zipcode is 46383 and my antenna info is: Winegard CA 7082 and CA 9065, CC 7870 (coupler antenna), AP 8700 Preamp 75ohm and one 4 way splitter. Purchased 10/14/99.
Thanks for your help.
Oops, forgot to tell you that the converter box is a Magnavox TB100MW9, the crummy one. Ha Ha.

Ain't digital just great :rolleyes:

Analog Rocks :D

There are some days I am very inclined to agree with you. :D

My zipcode is 46383 and my antenna info is: Winegard CA 7082 and CA 9065, CC 7870 (coupler antenna), AP 8700 Preamp 75ohm and one 4 way splitter. Purchased 10/14/99.
Thanks for your help.

Sounds like solid equipment. How is your antenna twin lead to 50 ohm transformer? A corroded/broken connection? What coax are you using? How about the splitter? Did you try taking the splitter out of line to see if it has a problem?

If it's aimed right and the connections are solid I have no idea why things aren't working. I can almost understand issues with WLS, but WCIU? That's a rock solid signal.

Sounds like she's about 50 miles out (Valparaiso). Can the antenna be raised?

Sounds like she's about 50 miles out (Valparaiso). Can the antenna be raised?

At 50 miles I would say get it up 45 to 50 feet at least.

There are some days I am very inclined to agree with you. :D

IMHO Digital is not ready for primetime. Being more or less a computer, its garbage in garbage out. If one bit hits wrong all bets are off. Analog would get noisy etc but would still work. Cliff effect on digital is great too :D

for those Ellen Degeneres show lovers out there
The Ellen Degeneres Show will be broadcasted in HD on WMAQ starting sometime this summer.. that is the official word from WMAQ

At 50 miles I would say get it up 45 to 50 feet at least.

I've got my antennas 20' off the ground and they're fine 60 miles out.

WLS is harder to get because it's on channel 52, currently. Get that high up the dial and many UHF antennas struggle.

As for channel 26, there's a low-power 27 in South Bend with 15 kilowatts broadcasting the CW programming. So, you are likely getting interference from that. Getting a bigger antenna, or adjusting it is your best hope there.

The 27 there is, for the moment, owned by the same very fine folks who own 27 in Chicago..but 27 South Bend is in the process of being sold to WSBT-22 (CBS).

My zipcode is 46383 and my antenna info is: Winegard CA 7082 and CA 9065, CC 7870 (coupler antenna), AP 8700 Preamp 75ohm and one 4 way splitter. Purchased 10/14/99. Thanks for your help.

how high up are the antennas?

in general, those antennas should be fine....but if they are almost 10 years old and have been out in the weather all that time u may well have corrosion problems....especially at all the points where the boom feedline meets the active elements...those connection points become corroded or even just loose and then you have major problems...

even a 'good' brand like winegard is amazingly poorly constructed, in my opinion....they dont care about their products lasting many years....i've seen brand new antennas that have 'aged' very badly in just a few years time....this is why i always prefer an attic antenna location...an antenna will last forever in an attic shielded from the weather....

also, that pre-amp may be causing some problems due to age, corrosion, overloading, etc...dont use an amp unless u have no choice....a passive system (meaning no active electronics) is always best....

so try this >
first off, make sure the antenna is pointed properly toward chicago....in your case this means just about exactly to the northwest, meaning halfway between due north and due west...

then disconnect everything from both antennas and try a coax line directly from one antenna to one tv...and try that separately with both antennas and compare the results....youre only 44 miles from the chicago transmitters (with flat terrain, no hills, etc) so you should have more than enough signal for one tv if that antenna is working well....

and while u have everything apart look for problems like corroded coax connectors, kinks or cuts in the coax, etc etc....

next, if that works well for one tv put the splitter back in (no amp yet) and see what happens on the other tv's....didnt u say u only had 2 tv's?...if so, use a 2 way splitter instead of the 4 way....u'll gain 3db of signal, which can be a lot at 44 miles....and put the amp back in only if u have to....

let us know what happens and we'll go from there....good luck!

I am hearing WMAQ (NBC) will be doing their Local ENG News from the field in HD starting by end of this summer
Also WMAQ will also upgrade its traffic helicopter (Sky 5) to HD also by end of this summer..

That is the Official Word from WMAQ Engineering Dept

I've got my antennas 20' off the ground and they're fine 60 miles out.

WLS is harder to get because it's on channel 52, currently. Get that high up the dial and many UHF antennas struggle.

As for channel 26, there's a low-power 27 in South Bend with 15 kilowatts broadcasting the CW programming. So, you are likely getting interference from that. Getting a bigger antenna, or adjusting it is your best hope there.

The 27 there is, for the moment, owned by the same very fine folks who own 27 in Chicago..but 27 South Bend is in the process of being sold to WSBT-22 (CBS).

Heck I can see the top of the Hancock and Sears in the winter from my attic. Im about 8-9 miles ATCF and my antenna's are up almost 30 feet.

The problem with an antenna close to the ground that far out is the earth curves and the signals are line of sight, so attenuation is high. I would bet if you put your UHF antenna up 55 feet channel 52 would be strong.

I DX'ed for years and know how height can make might when it comes to signals beyond 30 miles. At 60 miles your at the end of the rubberband with your height. Your saving grace may be that your on high ground.

I don't think 20' off the ground and 60 mi out is the issue. That's high enough for a transmit antenna with that kind of power on the Sears. There has to be either co-channel interference from SB or something in the antenna system that's corroded/not working correctly.

Heck I can see the top of the Hancock and Sears in the winter from my attic. Im about 8-9 miles ATCF and my antenna's are up almost 30 feet.

The problem with an antenna close to the ground that far out is the earth curves and the signals are line of sight, so attenuation is high. I would bet if you put your UHF antenna up 55 feet channel 52 would be strong.

I DX'ed for years and know how height can make might when it comes to signals beyond 30 miles. At 60 miles your at the end of the rubberband with your height. Your saving grace may be that your on high ground.

I'm actually on low ground, believe it or not. That said, height is might...no question about it. But in her case, I think height may not maytter for 27...and in fact, could conceivably make things worse by getting a better "view" from 27 in South Bend. Then again, the higher you go, the stronger 27 will be from Chicago, so hopefully that will knock out 27 from South Bend.

Anyway, in general, higher is always better, no question. WQRF-DT in Rockford, Fox 39.1 broadcasting on RF 42, is 900 kw...yet because it is not on a very tall tower, its range is limited. If they got it up another 500', they'd be an utter blowtorch. As it is, their sister station, WTVO-DT, is. At a measly 196 kw by comparison.

I am hearing WMAQ (NBC) will be doing their Local ENG News from the field in HD starting by end of this summer
Also WMAQ will also upgrade its traffic helicopter (Sky 5) to HD also by end of this summer..

That is the Official Word from WMAQ Engineering Dept

They've been upgrading their ENG receive gear, so far, that I have seen.

I really don't know how high up in feet my antenna is. All I can say is that it looks pretty far up there. I have three tv's hooked up to the antenna. The booster brings in the South Bend stations quite well. When hooking up the converter box, the preamp was disconnected to see how channels came in. The result was not good. I will wait until June to see how things look. This whole matter is way above my head, so I will probably have to make a visit to the business that installed my antenna. Thank you again.

We're replacing our analog panel antenna with a new digital slot in the summer and increasing our power to 550 kW ERP with an elliptical polarized antenna. No other UHF digital station in Chicago has an elliptical antenna. IMO, WCIU-DT will have the best penetration of all Chicago DTV UHF stations and the best coverage of all if a home user is using a UHF antenna to receive both UHF and VHF digital channels.

i have a grasp of horizontal and veritcal antenna polarization.
but i cannot visualize elliptical polarization at all

anyone point me to some place where i can be enlightened?

kd9fz
comments, criticisms and questions of sanity are always welcome

They've been upgrading their ENG receive gear, so far, that I have seen.

Yes.. (Sky 5) allready has the ENG gear but still has the old SD Cam on board.. :rolleyes:

i have a grasp of horizontal and veritcal antenna polarization.
but i cannot visualize elliptical polarization at all

anyone point me to some place where i can be enlightened?


This article may help explain it:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Polarization

I visualize an elliptically polarized signal as a squashed spiral vs. a circular spiral. Most stations transmit a horizontally polarized signal, which is linear (at least in the respective plane).

If Mobile DTV gains ground, I expect to see a lot more elliptical and circular antennas being installed. It also seems that elliptical and circular signals are easier to receive with rabbit ear configurations, but I have not done formal tests to confirm.

I'm actually on low ground, believe it or not. That said, height is might...no question about it. But in her case, I think height may not maytter for 27...and in fact, could conceivably make things worse by getting a better "view" from 27 in South Bend. Then again, the higher you go, the stronger 27 will be from Chicago, so hopefully that will knock out 27 from South Bend.

Anyway, in general, higher is always better, no question. WQRF-DT in Rockford, Fox 39.1 broadcasting on RF 42, is 900 kw...yet because it is not on a very tall tower, its range is limited. If they got it up another 500', they'd be an utter blowtorch. As it is, their sister station, WTVO-DT, is. At a measly 196 kw by comparison.


Your saving grace must be the height of the transmitters in Chicago. Most smaller cities towers aren't that high. I don't know what your feet above sea level is but mine is 605 feet here possible it may be higher by you I wish I was 655 feet above sea level that would be like having a 50 foot tower at ground level.

A lot comes into play in good reception too, terrain, surrounding structures etc.

Yes she could be getting co channel from SB 27, that's what they make highly directive antennas for. When your in a difficult receiving situation much more comes in to play and needs to be addressed when selecting antenna orientation height etc.

Your saving grace must be the height of the transmitters in Chicago.

No doubt about it.


Most smaller cities towers aren't that high. I don't know what your feet above sea level is but mine is 605 feet here possible it may be higher by you I wish I was 655 feet above sea level that would be like having a 50 foot tower at ground level.

A lot comes into play in good reception too, terrain, surrounding structures etc.

Absolutely. But the best factors, besides height, is a good antenna and cabling/connectors.


Yes she could be getting co channel from SB 27, that's what they make highly directive antennas for. When your in a difficult receiving situation much more comes in to play and needs to be addressed when selecting antenna orientation height etc.

I think we scared her away. :( Bottom line is that she does need to contact the person who installed the antenna. But I don't hold out much hope for her getting WCIU reliably in Valparaiso, Indiana with less than a very directional antenna.

I really don't know how high up in feet my antenna is. All I can say is that it looks pretty far up there. I have three tv's hooked up to the antenna. The booster brings in the South Bend stations quite well. When hooking up the converter box, the preamp was disconnected to see how channels came in. The result was not good. I will wait until June to see how things look. This whole matter is way above my head, so I will probably have to make a visit to the business that installed my antenna. Thank you again.

When you say you unplugged the preamp, you mean you disconnected it from the antenna and the outlet in the house? There are 2 parts to the preamp. One is mast mounted, the other is inside connected to your TV. When you take it out of line you need to take those two parts out of line and connect the cable straight from TV to antenna with nothing in between. Here's a nice plot of WCIU's coverage:
http://www.tvfool.com/?option=com_wrapper&Itemid=80&q=call%3dWCIU%26type%3dD

A good preamp is suggested in your area. I just want to make sure you have one that is actually working not beat up from the weather.

I really don't know how high up in feet my antenna is. All I can say is that it looks pretty far up there. I have three tv's hooked up to the antenna. The booster brings in the South Bend stations quite well. When hooking up the converter box, the preamp was disconnected to see how channels came in. The result was not good. I will wait until June to see how things look. This whole matter is way above my head, so I will probably have to make a visit to the business that installed my antenna. Thank you again. South Bend has a digital station on the exact same spectrum as WCIU's digital channel. Both will interfere with each other in your system, which would explain why digital 26.1 is coming in so badly for you.

When you say you unplugged the preamp, you mean you disconnected it from the antenna and the outlet in the house? There are 2 parts to the preamp. One is mast mounted, the other is inside connected to your TV. When you take it out of line you need to take those two parts out of line and connect the cable straight from TV to antenna with nothing in between. Here's a nice plot of WCIU's coverage:
http://www.tvfool.com/?option=com_wrapper&Itemid=80&q=call%3dWCIU%26type%3dD

A good preamp is suggested in your area. I just want to make sure you have one that is actually working not beat up from the weather.
The friend who hooked up the converter box disconnected the preamp from inside the house thinking it might not be needed with the converter box, but that was not to be.

No doubt about it.


Absolutely. But the best factors, besides height, is a good antenna and cabling/connectors.



I think we scared her away. :( Bottom line is that she does need to contact the person who installed the antenna. But I don't hold out much hope for her getting WCIU reliably in Valparaiso, Indiana with less than a very directional antenna.
Hello, No you didn't scare me away. At this point I probably wouldn't know much about the antenna issue. I really appreciate all the feedback that I have received. It could be that a directional antenna is the way to go.

My zipcode is 46383 and my antenna info is: Winegard CA 7082 and CA 9065, CC 7870 (coupler antenna), AP 8700 Preamp 75ohm and one 4 way splitter. Purchased 10/14/99.
Thanks for your help.

My mother is out by LaSalle, IL. The nearest markets are either Peoria/Bloomington or the Quad Cites. That puts her in the 40 to 50 mile range. I gave her a big Winegard full spectrum antenna with the 8700 pre-amp. She still didn't get all the stations until I put an amplified splitter (or distribution amp) in place of the passive splitter. After that, she can get every station from either market, depending on which way I point the antenna. You might pick up an amplified splitter from some place local, like Radio Shack, and try it. At the worst, you can return it if it doesn't help. Good luck.

Dan (Woj...)

anyone noticed WGN is now starting doing Pre-recorded Special Segements in HD during their newscasts

GUYS, I know this probably doesn't apply here, but if you have an ATSC tuner (IE A tv bought within the past 3 years, Or a HDTV (most likely if you have one with the other, unless you bought an SD set with a digital tuner) PLEASE FOR THE LIFE OF YOU, DO NOT HOOK A CONVERTER BOX UP, YOU DONT NEED IT!!! My brother in law did this. He was like oohhh the picture was so clear, I said wait untill I disconnect the converter box and once he saw the hd picture his jaw dropped to the floor. So For Petes sake, please abide by this rule. :)

People are buying new sets and and they see the commercials and they think that they STILL need a converter box, even with the new set.

People are buying new sets and and they see the commercials and they think that they STILL need a converter box, even with the new set.

You're right, except... a lot of new televisions with a picture-in-picture feature have only one tuner, so a low-cost ATSC converter box may be useful to tune the second PiP frame.

You like your TV? I got the LN46A630.

It does well. The sound on it is crap, but just about every flat panel that size is. I guess the assumption is that you're gonna hook it up to a receiver. The tuner does really well IMHO.

GUYS, I know this probably doesn't apply here, but if you have an ATSC tuner (IE A tv bought within the past 3 years, Or a HDTV (most likely if you have one with the other, unless you bought an SD set with a digital tuner) PLEASE FOR THE LIFE OF YOU, DO NOT HOOK A CONVERTER BOX UP, YOU DONT NEED IT!!! My brother in law did this. He was like oohhh the picture was so clear, I said wait untill I disconnect the converter box and once he saw the hd picture his jaw dropped to the floor. So For Petes sake, please abide by this rule. :)

People are buying new sets and and they see the commercials and they think that they STILL need a converter box, even with the new set.

LOL :)

GUYS, I know this probably doesn't apply here, but if you have an ATSC tuner (IE A tv bought within the past 3 years, Or a HDTV (most likely if you have one with the other, unless you bought an SD set with a digital tuner) PLEASE FOR THE LIFE OF YOU, DO NOT HOOK A CONVERTER BOX UP, YOU DONT NEED IT!!! My brother in law did this. He was like oohhh the picture was so clear, I said wait untill I disconnect the converter box and once he saw the hd picture his jaw dropped to the floor. So For Petes sake, please abide by this rule. :)

People are buying new sets and and they see the commercials and they think that they STILL need a converter box, even with the new set.

I know someone who's not much of a TV watcher who bought a new set, went home, plugged it in and continued to watch the old analog signals they were receiving. They commented they got the "TV not ready" message during one of the tests so I went over to take a look. They hadn't realized they needed to run a digital scan to pick up the new ATSC signals. They were quite surprised at what they can get now.

You're right, except... a lot of new televisions with a picture-in-picture feature have only one tuner, so a low-cost ATSC converter box may be useful to tune the second PiP frame.

That might be the one and only exemption.

Question: I'm working on my website's market definitions (which are not Nielsen DMAs) and I'm not sure where I should put the dividing line between Rockford and Chicago.

http://www.rabbitears.info/market.php?request=marketcities&market=3
http://www.rabbitears.info/market.php?request=marketcities&market=163

Scroll to the bottom to see a Google map of what's going on. The first link is Chicago, the second is Rockford.

So is the line good, or should I move it west more? Do people in De Kalb watch Chicago or Rockford? I'd imagine Chicago, for the better selection, but I'd like to get some input here.

(Ignore Wisconsin, it's not done yet as of this posting and I know it's wrong)

- Trip

Question: I'm working on my website's market definitions (which are not Nielsen DMAs) and I'm not sure where I should put the dividing line between Rockford and Chicago.

http://www.rabbitears.info/market.php?request=marketcities&market=3
http://www.rabbitears.info/market.php?request=marketcities&market=163

Scroll to the bottom to see a Google map of what's going on. The first link is Chicago, the second is Rockford.

So is the line good, or should I move it west more? Do people in De Kalb watch Chicago or Rockford? I'd imagine Chicago, for the better selection, but I'd like to get some input here.

(Ignore Wisconsin, it's not done yet as of this posting and I know it's wrong)

- Trip

Hey Trip,

Living in DeKalb, I can answer this! :D

DeKalb county is in the Chicago DMI. Northern Illinois University students typically watch Chicago stations (even though Rockford locals are offered on the campus cable system, which is separate from Comcast), while the rest watch a mix of Chicago and Rockford. Rockford news covers us better than Chicago.
Rockford TV stations are somewhat easier to get via OTA, 35 miles from the transmitters in DeKalb vs. 60 miles to Sears. On Comcast, both are offered, but only Chicago locals are offered in HD. The Rockford stations on Comcast are received OTA and then cropped 4:3.

In the far northwest part of the county in Kirkland, they can see the distant blinking red lights from the Rockford TV station broadcast towers. But, because most viewers watch Chicago, and therefore make us get in their DMI, DirecTV and Dish only offer Chicago locals. I say go with Chi-town for us. Ditto
for McHenry, Grundy and Kendall counties.

I know the county's in the Chicago DMA, but I'm not mimicking the Nielsen DMA system (Wikipedia was threatened with a lawsuit for using it!).

I'm thinking strictly OTA, ignoring cable and satellite (since they're slaves to the DMA system thanks to the FCC), do you think more viewers watch Chicago or Rockford OTA? Should my line move west or is it in a good spot?

- Trip

What? No Bedford Park on your Chicago list of towns and cities? But it's where my "wonderful" cable line up was in February! (LOL)

I was the one who posted about the crappy cable lineup in the hotel straddling the Chicago city line near Midway Airport last month. :)

Here in Connecticut, it's not as confusing...or is it? New Haven gets influenced by New York City being only an hour and some change south on I-95. Bridgeport gets New Haven over the air and on cable, yet is considered a portion of NYC's market. Hmmm!

What? No Bedford Park on your Chicago list of towns and cities? But it's where my "wonderful" cable line up was in February! (LOL)

It uses county subdivisions, not towns and cities. This was the most fine-grained census data that contained the entire US population. (Zip codes would have been a pain)

Here in Connecticut, it's not as confusing...or is it? New Haven gets influenced by New York City being only an hour and some change south on I-95. Bridgeport gets New Haven over the air and on cable, yet is considered a portion of NYC's market. Hmmm!

Connecticut was pretty easy and was finished last weekend.

- Trip

GUYS, I know this probably doesn't apply here, but if you have an ATSC tuner (IE A tv bought within the past 3 years, Or a HDTV (most likely if you have one with the other, unless you bought an SD set with a digital tuner) PLEASE FOR THE LIFE OF YOU, DO NOT HOOK A CONVERTER BOX UP, YOU DONT NEED IT!!!

Sure I do! The government gave me a total of (counting) ten coupons so I could go buy them! Now you're saying I don't need them???!??!?

Besides, how will my picture-in-picture-in-picture-in-picture-in-picture-in-picture-in-picture-in-picture-in-picture-in-picture work without it? Why are you trying to limit me to just picture-in-picture-in-picture-in-picture-in-picture-in-picture-in-picture-in-picture-in-picture!????!?? :D:D:D:D

I've got my antennas 20' off the ground and they're fine 60 miles out.

Heck, I'm ~55 miles out, north of the state line in Kenosha County, and I can pull all the major UHF stations - WCIU will be a problem until they change their antenna, if I'm reading the contour maps correctly - with an indoor antenna (homebrew bowtie) for my HTPC .

Of course, I'm ~820 ft. above sea level, where some of the people are mentioning they're ~600 ft. or so...

I know the county's in the Chicago DMA, but I'm not mimicking the Nielsen DMA system (Wikipedia was threatened with a lawsuit for using it!).

I'm thinking strictly OTA, ignoring cable and satellite (since they're slaves to the DMA system thanks to the FCC), do you think more viewers watch Chicago or Rockford OTA? Should my line move west or is it in a good spot?

- Trip

The markers over DeKalb, the one just south of it, the one over Sycamore and the one northeast of that...ditch 'em. Otherwise, it looks good.

The markers over DeKalb, the one just south of it, the one over Sycamore and the one northeast of that...ditch 'em. Otherwise, it looks good.

Done. Thanks. :)

- Trip

I get all the higher powerd stations from both markets well - except WREX-DT from Rockford, which I hear even people in and around the city itself are having trouble getting now.

They've somehow, someway got to get higher power.

Actually, they just got approved to go from 12.4 kw to 18 kw. Dunno if that will help much, but it can't hurt.

Minor DTV notes...

WEDE-CA 34's flash cut request to go to 15 kw was shot dowwn, as they used the wrong interference mask when they did their FCC app. They can only do 4.3 kw on channel 34. We'll see if the FCC accepts this.

When channel 35 in Ottawa shuts down, you folks in the northern 'burbs should get WMVT-DT 35 well. Especially since they've now applied to go from 500 kw to 625 kw.

WWTO-DT 10 in Ottawa says they'll accept new interference from WGEM-Dt Quincy, and a station in Michigan (just .7%, no biggie) to get the desired 80 kw. FCC still hasn't bit yet.

As mentioned above, WREX-DT should be going to 18 kw from 12.4 kw as soon as the FCC approves their special temporary authority to do so.
That will help a little, but not much, methinks. We'll see.

Minor DTV notes...

WEDE-CA 34's flash cut request to go to 15 kw was shot dowwn, as they used the wrong interference mask when they did their FCC app. They can only do 4.3 kw on channel 34. We'll see if the FCC accepts this.

When channel 35 in Ottawa shuts down, you folks in the northern 'burbs should get WMVT-DT 35 well. Especially since they've now applied to go from 500 kw to 625 kw.




I have no problem whatsoever getting WMVT-DT from Milwaukee today. It's easily the strongest of the Milwaukee stations and the antenna, I believe, may be the highest of any of them. I never get that channel 35 from Ottawa at my place in Northbrook, even when I swing the VU-160 with AP8700 amp in that direction.

Channel 24 Milwaukee has some interference issues with that Home Shopping Network LP station on the SW side...W25?? I used to get WCVG the second best of Milwaukee stations until the LP station signed on. Now, I don't get it 95% of the time.

I wish WEDE would just move to a new channel. It interferes with WISN-DT...MAJORLY. I am happy they were slammed on their request to increase the power. I wish the FCC had the brains to figure out that even 4 kW ERP is too much for them on that frequency.

I have no problem whatsoever getting WMVT-DT from Milwaukee today. It's easily the strongest of the Milwaukee stations and the antenna, I believe, may be the highest of any of them. I never get that channel 35 from Ottawa at my place in Northbrook, even when I swing the VU-160 with AP8700 amp in that direction.

Channel 24 Milwaukee has some interference issues with that Home Shopping Network LP station on the SW side...W25?? I used to get WCVG the second best of Milwaukee stations until the LP station signed on. Now, I don't get it 95% of the time.

I wish WEDE would just move to a new channel. It interferes with WISN-DT...MAJORLY. I am happy they were slammed on their request to increase the power. I wish the FCC had the brains to figure out that even 4 kW ERP is too much for them on that frequency.

25 isn't going anywhere for now, although AFAIK, they don't have a digital companion channel. They're just picking up the signal from DirecTV or Dish Network, since I saw one of the two logos on there after a bad storm apparently knocked their antenna out of whack. The audio sounds terrible.

As of 34, it is just an application. The original was denied by the FCC. If they drop to 4.3 kw on 34, it won't help you. It will still interfere, but of course, you're technically not supposed to get it this far south anyway, which is why the FCC could allow this to happen.

What time is WTTW Prime supposed to start airing on 11.2?  I'm still getting Channel 11 in SD on 11.2.

What time is WTTW Prime supposed to start airing on 11.2?* I'm still getting Channel 11 in SD on 11.2.

Looks like noon. I'm getting it now through Comcast clear QAM on 11-2.

Looks like noon. I'm getting it now through Comcast clear QAM on 11-2.
Yup; I tried again at 12:06 PM and it was coming in.

[QUOTE=jmfordpromo;16110843]I was curious if there was any update on the WCIU Video Stuttering problem.

I have been pulling my hair out with this WCIU business. I have a Sony KDL 40W4100 which I bought in december. I was getting all the Chicago stations perfectly OTA with my antenna in the attic (no cable or dish). Even WBBM 2 is coming in great. About the end of February my 26.1 starts having the video stuttering problems described by other members. It is constant. Great HD picture but it freezes every second or so while the sound is fine. At this time all the other stations are fine.
I e-mailed WCIU and their reply was that it is a tuner problem with certain TVs and they are working on it. My question is- what changed at the end of February that caused this? A family member just purchased a Samsung 650and he has no stuttering. Why are all other stations fine on my TV? This is one of our favorite stations. Analog is ok for now, but I didn't buy this TV to watch analog.

I noticed earlier during The Doctors that all the commercials were running flawlessly without the video jumping and stuttering. Now, The King of Queens looks perfect. I don't know what was done but big props to HVS and Co., now I can get my Stooge and Frasier fix without the analog signal. I wonder if the problem is gone on all tuners now, or if I just one of the lucky ones. The problem still exists on WPWR, however I don't watch anything on there so I could really care less about them.

I just read this after posting the earlier comment. Looks like the day you got your WCIU back is the day I lost mine. They must have changed something and fixed the problem for some but ruined it for others. I have no problems with WPWR. I hope they leave it alone, for my sake at least.
I know nothing about this technical stuff (but I'm learning).
What are they changing to make some tuners work and not others and why dont all stations have this problem?
What is the solution? My digital converterbox hooked up to my analog TV has no problems with ANY stations- but its not HD of course.

Yup; I tried again at 12:06 PM and it was coming in.

It looks like Comcast is a bit messed up. They have the audio set to the descriptive audio channel! Broadcast is fine, but through the cable box (243 finally appeared) or clear QAM, it's full of echoes and somebody describing the action.

So is WTTW Prime broadcasting in SD like the old 11.2? Can anyone comment on how WTTW is allocating bits to the main HD channel and the 3 subs? Like many others here, I'm in favor of allocating more bits to 11.1 and dropping create and vme.

So is WTTW Prime broadcasting in SD like the old 11.2? Can anyone comment on how WTTW is allocating bits to the main HD channel and the 3 subs? Like many others here, I'm in favor of allocating more bits to 11.1 and dropping create and vme.
The rates vary, but a few minutes ago I saw (via TSReader Lite):
11-1 8.4 Mbps
11-2 4.4 (standard def 4:3)
11-3 2.6
11-4 1.8
The chances of dropping 11-3 and 11-4 are slim.

Anyone having trouble with WLS? Got home and turned on the news and I'm getting some type of audio drop outs and clipping. Anyone else hearing this?

It's getting really annoying. Through the news, wheel and now dancing w/stars.

I just read this after posting the earlier comment. Looks like the day you got your WCIU back is the day I lost mine. They must have changed something and fixed the problem for some but ruined it for others. I have no problems with WPWR. I hope they leave it alone, for my sake at least.
I know nothing about this technical stuff (but I'm learning).
What are they changing to make some tuners work and not others and why dont all stations have this problem?
What is the solution? My digital converterbox hooked up to my analog TV has no problems with ANY stations- but its not HD of course.

It was only temporary, it was good for about a week and then it came back and is still doing the video stuttering.

Anyone having trouble with WLS? Got home and turned on the news and I'm getting some type of audio drop outs and clipping. Anyone else hearing this?

It's getting really annoying. Through the news, wheel and now dancing w/stars.

Getting it as well on Comcast as well.

25 isn't going anywhere for now, although AFAIK, they don't have a digital companion channel. They're just picking up the signal from DirecTV or Dish Network, since I saw one of the two logos on there after a bad storm apparently knocked their antenna out of whack. The audio sounds terrible.

As of 34, it is just an application. The original was denied by the FCC. If they drop to 4.3 kw on 34, it won't help you. It will still interfere, but of course, you're technically not supposed to get it this far south anyway, which is why the FCC could allow this to happen.

25 actually does have a CP for a digital flash cut at 12.5 KW aiming mostly southwest.

http://www.fcc.gov/fcc-bin/FMTV-service-area?x=LD1296476.html

Anyone having trouble with WLS? Got home and turned on the news and I'm getting some type of audio drop outs and clipping. Anyone else hearing this?

It's getting really annoying. Through the news, wheel and now dancing w/stars.

Getting it as well on Comcast as well.

I also noticed it both through Comcast and over the air.  It seems (or seemed if it's over now) to hit only WLS; it did not affect WBBM during the CBS comedy block and isn't affecting WMAQ right now while Leno's on.

25 actually does have a CP for a digital flash cut at 12.5 KW aiming mostly southwest.

http://www.fcc.gov/fcc-bin/FMTV-service-area?x=LD1296476.html

Thanks, Bigd! I appreciate it...missed that altogether.

25 actually does have a CP for a digital flash cut at 12.5 KW aiming mostly southwest.

http://www.fcc.gov/fcc-bin/FMTV-service-area?x=LD1296476.html

!?!?!...dammmm....what a crime! allowing a totally worthless bs 24 hour shopping channel with absolutely zero redeeming value to go digital?!? shopping channels are even worse than the many phoney bible thumper channels like TBN...

i know its pointless to ask...but....how can the fcc possibly justify allowing this kind of crap on the airwaves?

we have the best government and fcc that money can buy....what a shame!

shopping channels are even worse than the many phoney bible thumper channels like TBN...Not really, IMO.

But if Christ ever came back and had a "money changers" moment and started flipping over the tables and demolishing the studios of both, I wouldn't have any problem with that.

Something tells me he'd start with the huckster preachers first, though.

26.4 psip showing wrong info

not really nit picking but ....
my dtt-901 has shown this for a few days
only 26.4 has this problem

the psip porgram and info shown is an hour behind what is actualy on the air
while the time shown is correct

it is like the info is still on standard time

kd9fz
comments , criticisms and questions of sanity are always welcome

may I point out that the shopping channels and religious channels do not have any video studdering problems

!?!?!...dammmm....what a crime! allowing a totally worthless bs 24 hour shopping channel with absolutely zero redeeming value to go digital?!? shopping channels are even worse than the many phoney bible thumper channels like TBN...

i know its pointless to ask...but....how can the fcc possibly justify allowing this kind of crap on the airwaves?

we have the best government and fcc that money can buy....what a shame!

I don't have any problem with them on the airwaves... UNLESS.. they cause interference to other channels which is what that W25 and WEDE-CA 34 both do. There should not be an Faraday cage at the Wisc. border that prevents me from getting full powered Milwaukee stations. I'm not a cheesehead, but with an adequate antenna system I should be able to get them. What frosts me is that there will be more channels opening up post transition. MOVE THOSE JOKERS TO THOSE CHANNELS and STOP INTERFERING WITH FULL POWERED STATIONS!

Yes, I'm saying move HSN (which most of us get via the dish or cable) to VHF-LO, or pick 16, 20, 26, 32 or something like that post transition. Just because an antenna has a pattern to the south doesn't mean it doesn't reach to the north. It does, and alot more than those FCC patterns indicate.

Let's see.. worthless HSN vs WCGV and less useful WEDE vs WISN.... hmmm tough decision...

!?!?!...dammmm....what a crime! allowing a totally worthless bs 24 hour shopping channel with absolutely zero redeeming value to go digital?!? shopping channels are even worse than the many phoney bible thumper channels like TBN...

i know its pointless to ask...but....how can the fcc possibly justify allowing this kind of crap on the airwaves?

we have the best government and fcc that money can buy....what a shame!

The FCC polices programming decency (societal standards). If they want to show religious or shopping channels, they may more than legally do so.

As for interference, I have to say again: As much as I agree that I'd rather watch WCVG versus, say, W25CL...they do not interfere, technically or otherwise, with WCGV's operational areas. If they did, WCVG would be on W25CL like flies on dog doo and have them shut down or reduce power immediately...but there isn't any complaining coming from up north. And if you did complain, they'd say "sorry, you're out of our broadcast area".

It's also worth noting that digital full power interference standards are very strict, and for low power stations, even more so. That's why WEDE-CA's application was shot down.

Finally, NO station can operate without donations, or advertising revenue, or carrying a channel (like HSN/W25CL). They're making money. Not a lot in the case of W25CL, I am guessing...but it pays the bills. You'd be surprised how many people buy cubit zirconia! :D

As for interference, I have to say again: As much as I agree that I'd rather watch WCVG versus, say, W25CL...they do not interfere, technically or otherwise, with WCGV's operational areas. If they did, WCVG would be on W25CL like flies on dog doo and have them shut down or reduce power immediately...but there isn't any complaining coming from up north. And if you did complain, they'd say "sorry, you're out of our broadcast area".

It's also worth noting that digital full power interference standards are very strict, and for low power stations, even more so. That's why WEDE-CA's application was shot down.



Probably not as much complaining since 94% receive their locals from satellite or cable.

Still, what's wrong with making them go to 2,3,5,9,11,23,26,37 post transition? I just looked it up and these will be all clear. 32 will be sort of also. Janesville is 2 markets away.

26.4 psip showing wrong info

not really nit picking but ....
my dtt-901 has shown this for a few days
only 26.4 has this problem

the psip porgram and info shown is an hour behind what is actualy on the air
while the time shown is correct

it is like the info is still on standard time

kd9fz
comments , criticisms and questions of sanity are always welcome

Noticed that too. It's bad data from the programming source. Not much I can do locally to it. Thanks for the heads up!!

may I point out that the shopping channels and religious channels do not have any video studdering problems

They didn't pay for that option like we did. :D

They didn't pay for that option like we did. :D

what's their bit rate? 56 kbps? :) Maybe that has something to do with it?

26.4 psip showing wrong info

not really nit picking but ....
my dtt-901 has shown this for a few days
only 26.4 has this problem

the psip porgram and info shown is an hour behind what is actualy on the air
while the time shown is correct

it is like the info is still on standard time

kd9fz
comments , criticisms and questions of sanity are always welcome

Fixed as of 5pm.

I am in hoffman estates and have no trouble receiving analog channel 5 but digial either cuts out on my samsung 450 (best buy said during the day the sun messes the signal up) but today I just hooked up a zenith 19In digital tv and got no signal OTA for 5.1 then I went back to my samsung (it is night now but raining) and 5.1 was cutting out and then to my analog with the dtv pal plus and it cannot find 5.1
dont seem to have anyother channel problems digitally with the digial tv or the converter box
My antena is in the attic and difficult to get to because of all the cross beams
IT has a booster box we put on about 15 years ago and there are 5 lines coming out of it
any suggestions?? Again analog 5 is fine but digital 5.1 no signal or very weak and I lose it

may I point out that the shopping channels and religious channels do not have any video studdering problems

I wouldn't expect a TV channel to have problems with wood or aluminum beams placed every 16 inches on center, so I'm glad you pointed that out! :D

(hint) (http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/stutter)

I am in hoffman estates and have no trouble receiving analog channel 5 but digial either cuts out on my samsung 450 (best buy said during the day the sun messes the signal up) but today I just hooked up a zenith 19In digital tv and got no signal OTA for 5.1 then I went back to my samsung (it is night now but raining) and 5.1 was cutting out and then to my analog with the dtv pal plus and it cannot find 5.1
dont seem to have anyother channel problems digitally with the digial tv or the converter box
My antena is in the attic and difficult to get to because of all the cross beams
IT has a booster box we put on about 15 years ago and there are 5 lines coming out of it
any suggestions?? Again analog 5 is fine but digital 5.1 no signal or very weak and I lose it

1. Best Buy is full of idiots. Ignore their comment.
2. Forget about comparing analog 5 to digital 5. Analog 5 is on VHF and the antenna is much less directive at that frequency. Digital 5 is actually on UHF 29. So, if you get analog 26, 32 and 50 fine, you should get digital 5 fine. You may have to reorient the antenna if you get some excessive ghosting or bad signals on analog 26, 32, and 50. UHF is VERY directive. The antenna has to be aimed in the right direction.
3. 5 lines coming out, of just the booster box? or booster box then splitter?... Seems like an awful lot.

I posted this in the HDTV technical area also. Here is the link to that thread.

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=1134649

Here is MY tvfool link.

http://www.tvfool.com/?option=com_wrapper&Itemid=29&q=id%3d6c5fe4d05e46ca

Here is my question!

I just got a front projector and I want to get an antenna and STB fo OTA HD broadcasts. I don't want to give Comcast anymore of my money, so I have been searching and reading these threads for a week and can't do it anymore....my head is spinning.

I would like some recomendations on an attic mounted antenna and STB with a HDMI ouput. My projector is in the basement.

I live in a 2 story house, pretty well populated area in Grayslake, IL. 60030.

I'm hoping someone from my area can say "This is what I have, and I like it" and that is most likely what I will get, with a little investigating myself.
Thanks in advance.

i do have some issues with 26 and 50. I did not know they were related to 5.1
I did not worry before because i didnt really care about 26 and 50
Guess I better get someone to crawl up there
Is the best way to slightly move it and then check the channel downstairs?
the house is angled so it is not a straight west, east etc and when you are up there you can not tell the n,s e w

the house is angled so it is not a straight west, east etc and when you are up there you can not tell the n,s e w
That's why sites like antennaweb.org and tvfool.com give azimuths from magnetic north: take a compass with you when you go up there.

WCHU-LP on UHF61 continues to carry Azteca America, but today WLFM-LP on VHF6 has the audio of 87.7 MHz FM (apparently that's WLFM-FM?) and its video is a succession of stills relating to country music or to Chicago with occasional plugs for 87.7 in the forms of CTA L stop markers.

WCHU-LP on UHF61 continues to carry Azteca America, but today WLFM-LP on VHF6 has the audio of 87.7 MHz FM (apparently that's WLFM-FM?) and its video is a succession of stills relating to country music or to Chicago with occasional plugs for 87.7 in the forms of CTA L stop markers.

Yeah, I noticed that last night at about 10:30 and also wondered what the heck was going on.

87.7FM IS channel 6 audio. Go to Milwaukee and try it.

I read an article not long ago about LPs on 6 in Chicago and Los Angeles joining the one in New York in turning the 87.7 carrier into an FM radio station, basically. In New York it's "87.7 The Pulse" or something.

- Trip

Second that. I once tuned into to an episode of Buffy the Vampire Slayer from Fox 6, simply by listening to 87.7 FM one Saturday afternoon coming back from Milwaukee. It died out just before the Cook County border.

87.7FM IS channel 6 audio. Go to Milwaukee and try it.

I read an article not long ago about LPs on 6 in Chicago and Los Angeles joining the one in New York in turning the 87.7 carrier into an FM radio station, basically. In New York it's "87.7 The Pulse" or something.

- Trip

That's what it is...Chicago's newest radio station, 87.7, "The Pulse". Normally, the audio carrier is on 87.75, but using some hand-waving, they are getting it to 87.7 and in FM stereo. Their contract requires them not to carry any real video programming, but to satisfy the FCC, they show a slideshow instead.

Can all car FM receivers go down as far as 87.7? My brother thinks his only goes down to 88.1.

Can all car FM receivers go down as far as 87.7? My brother thinks his only goes down to 88.1.

yes, i think so....in fact, every digitally tuned fm rcvr i have goes all the way down to 87.5.....i bet many analog tuners will as well...

this brings up an interesting issue....with analog tv channel 6 going away in most cities some people are proposing that this is a great time to expand the fm radio band all the way down to 82 mhz....seems like a great idea to me....the fm radio band is seriously overcrowded in almost every medium & major market city.....heres some info re this >

http://www.broadcastlawblog.com/archives/110410-print.html

I am in hoffman estates and have no trouble receiving analog channel 5 but digial either cuts out on my samsung 450 (best buy said during the day the sun messes the signal up) but today I just hooked up a zenith 19In digital tv and got no signal OTA for 5.1 ......My antena is in the attic and difficult to get to because of all the cross beams....IT has a booster box we put on about 15 years ago and there are 5 lines coming out of it .....any suggestions?? ....

if that amp/booster box is in the attic i bet its suffering heat stroke after 15 years of use....or its just degraded from old age...take it out of the line...

but before u buy another amp try to feed just one tv with a direct line from the antenna...no splitters, amps, etc....maybe u dont need the amp...a passive antenna system is always the best & most reliable....

then, if that works put in just enough of a splitter to feed however many tv's u actually have....dont use a 5 way splitter if u only have 2 tv's to feed...that just wastes valuable signal....then add an amp if u dont have enough signal...but dont mount that amp in the attic....the summer heat in an attic is murder on any active electronics....

Can all car FM receivers go down as far as 87.7? My brother thinks his only goes down to 88.1.

No not all automotive radios go down that low.

yes, i think so....in fact, every digitally tuned fm rcvr i have goes all the way down to 87.5.....i bet many analog tuners will as well...

this brings up an interesting issue....with analog tv channel 6 going away in most cities some people are proposing that this is a great time to expand the fm radio band all the way down to 82 mhz....seems like a great idea to me....the fm radio band is seriously overcrowded in almost every medium & major market city.....heres some info re this >

Unfortunately, the FCC has rejected it at least twice and has said they will continue to do so.

I agree, an expansion of FM is a good idea.

- Trip

i do have some issues with 26 and 50. I did not know they were related to 5.1
I did not worry before because i didnt really care about 26 and 50
Guess I better get someone to crawl up there
Is the best way to slightly move it and then check the channel downstairs?
the house is angled so it is not a straight west, east etc and when you are up there you can not tell the n,s e w

yeah, the trick is that the digital stations are NOT on the same channel as analog, they just say they are due to a digital technology called PSIP. Look at the first post in the thread to get the info. Very good stuff there.

regarding the antenna repositioning:
you could bring a small, portable TV and put it at the base of the attic and watch what is happening. you could get walkie-talkies and talk to someone in the room with the TV while you are moving the antenna. Just try to get it as close as you can to pointed to the sears tower. You can use the signal meter on the digital TVs or the converter box as a guide.

ALSO... if you have any twin lead coming from the antenna make sure it is at least 4 inches from any metal surface. coax is not impacted by being near metal, signals on twin lead go all to hell when you do that.

You guys yakkin' about expansion of FM -

haven't you ever heard of HD Radio?

(Not that I'm encouraging it - some of the stations and subchannels can sound pretty bad - I'd rather actually see the analog spectrum expanded myself.)

Yes, with its poor coverage, poor sound quality, and expensive power-hungry non-portable receivers. Not to mention the huge royalty payments to Ibiquity needed to actually use the technology. I'm in full agreement with you on this, expanding the FM band would be much better policy.

As far as a digital radio technology goes, I've heard much better things about FMeXtra (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/FMeXtra). I'd really love to see a demo of it in person before I make any final judgments though.

- Trip

HD radio sounds exactly like satellite radio, and for that reason alone I think it's nice...if you can get it. If you're used to listening to Sirius you'd be right at home with HD radio. The trouble is in getting it to lock consistently. You have to get to that last 1/100th of the total signal to lock the HD portion, and unfortunately it's the first part to go if there's any kind of atmospheric hiccup or interference present. On a regular day in Arlington Heights, I can generally lock digital portions from all the Chicago FM stations off the Sears Tower with a splice off the outdoor TV lead, but even then the signals aren't quite as strong as they ought to be. Regular TV splitters kill a lot of the digital portion to the point where I had to track down special low loss FM splitters (Winegard has them). However, even in spite of this I still encounter enough signal attenuation in wet weather where one or two of the stations lose the HD portion altogether in a rainstorm. HD radio definitely isn't plug and play for the novice. If you have an outdoor rig, to me it's still totally worth it to try for the digital radio reception.

Perhaps if they made exclusive digital radio frequencies similar to what they've done to TV, more people would be able to take advantage of it. The technology itself has a great potential. However, the hybrid aspect seems to be its biggest problem. Imagine how your TV reception would be if they simply piggybacked the digital portion onto the analog. If listening to a radio station flip-flop between analog and digital is enough to make you nuts, you wouldn't want to see your TV set doing those digital-analog convulsions by comparison. If you got rid of the analog signal, the digital carrier would be far more effective since you wouldn't have to fight for that last 1/100. Here's an idea. If they opened up the FM band on the low end, maybe they could make room for some all digital frequencies.

On another note, it appears WCPX-DT has finally switched on the 720P for good, with blue colored sidebars to boot. Their end-credit advert slots are even in widescreen.

I notice ION on 38.1 is now in HD 720P.

Updated the front pages and cleaned them up a little.

but i noticed you wrote down
44-1 : Univision - 1080i - DD 2.0
which supposed to be "Telemundo" :D

but i noticed you wrote down
44-1 : Univision - 1080i - DD 2.0
which supposed to be "Telemundo" :D

Si, Senor. Yo mucho loca en la cabeza. :D

Fixed it, thanks!

(I'm sure Univision would have been thrilled to know they were simulcast on 44.1, and in HD! ;) :D )

I've noticed for the last few days that WYCC and their subs have no audio. I personally prefer the talking pictures!

WYCC audio seems to working fine for me as of this morning, including it's subs.

I tried just before 6 this morning and there was no audio. Last night it was out but came in briefly a few times. What time did you try?

I've noticed for the last few days that WYCC and their subs have no audio. I personally prefer the talking pictures!

I haven't noticed any problems with their audio here lately. As of this morning at 9:25 audio is fine on 20-1, 20-2 and 20-3.

I wouldn't expect a TV channel to have problems with wood or aluminum beams placed every 16 inches on center, so I'm glad you pointed that out! :D

(hint) (http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/stutter)

I appreciate the hint but could you explain the comment. Thanks

Oh you mean studdering- stuttering.... now I get it.
I was searching for a technical hint since I am having trouble with 26.1 video STUTTERING and I do have my antenna in the attic.
man you're deep- but comical

I tried just before 6 this morning and there was no audio. Last night it was out but came in briefly a few times. What time did you try?

Just before I posted, so about 8:40 AM today.

Oh you mean studdering- stuttering.... now I get it.
I was searching for a technical hint since I am having trouble with 26.1 video STUTTERING and I do have my antenna in the attic.
man you're deep- but comical

:) Glad you took it in the intended way -- humorously!

HD radio sounds exactly like satellite radio...It doesn't seem quite that bad - at least overall. The only HD1 stations around here that sound that bad are the really loud, heavy metal Rock stations.

If you're talking about Sirius/XM, the sound quality of that has deteriorated even further with the recent channel (not company) merger to the point that it sounds like a bad, AM pocket transistor radio. It has absolutely no dynamic range and is very thin and tinny-sounding. And loud stuff is just a garbled mess.

Even the longtime subscribers in the forums here and elsewhere complain about it constantly, and, along with losing some of their favorite stations (after Sirius/XM lied and said there would be no changes), the repetitive, shrunken playlists that sticks more to the "hits", having more mainstream Rock than anything eclectic anymore, now-censored Hip Hop stations, commercials, price raises and DJ's constant yakking since the merger, have found it just one more reason to cancel - which is just what a lot of them have been doing.

As far as the power on HD Radio, yeah, they definitely need to boost it up. I can't get too much out here from the city in Crystal Lake. Seems I get more NPR stations from every which direction than anything else - which I like - but it would be nice to get WXRT's 2 channels, and WNUA's HD2 one, too. At least I get The Drive's HD2 "Deep Tracks" sub, which is probably my favorite channel of all.

I've noticed for the last few days that WYCC and their subs have no audio. I personally prefer the talking pictures!
thats interesting...i had just the OPPOSITE problem....but only on one of 2 converter brands...

starting approximately last monday i had audio but no video on WYCC 20.1, 20.2 and 20.3 on my ARTEC T3AP converter box....but my TR40 converter was ok....very strange....all other channels were ok on both converters.... signal strength was good and nothing in my antenna system had been changed....i re-scanned the ARTEC channels and i even did a full FACTORY DEFAULT re-set but the problem persisted.....i emailed WYCC engineering with a description of the problem but so far havnt rcvd a reply....

when i checked it thursday night everything was back to normal....and still is now....

so my guess is WYCC had made a software/firmware/equipment update on monday and it took them a few days to debug it?

It doesn't seem quite that bad - at least overall. The only HD1 stations around here that sound that bad are the really loud, heavy metal Rock stations.

As far as the power on HD Radio, yeah, they definitely need to boost it up. I can't get too much out here from the city in Crystal Lake. Seems I get more NPR stations from every which direction than anything else - which I like - but it would be nice to get WXRT's 2 channels, and WNUA's HD2 one, too. At least I get The Drive's HD2 "Deep Tracks" sub, which is probably my favorite channel of all.

Supposedly some stations are set to put more wattage in the cottage. In order to fix 100 pounds in a 5 pound, 70-year old bag (craming the digital into the analog), most stations are using only 5% of their power for digital. The FCC is now allowing for 10% injection, but this requires sucking away more of the analog. Stations don't mind losing 5%, 10% (along with the tinkering needed) may not be worth it. Sales on HD Radios are poor...Ibiquity all but killed this thing by offering so few models and no walkmans or car models. But there's a good reason...unless you're in Channel 3 range, an HD radio in the car would drop in and out.

I bought an HD Radio so I could give my AM Stereo radio a companion. I far prefer DRM and DAB...full channel systems that they use in Europe. Sound quality is excellent...even on AM over several hundred miles.

As far as XM/Sirius...they're operating on life support these days...all the refinancing, debt and wild spending has rendered it as a repeater operation for the large chains and recording companies.

Cheers...

They got some other really nice retro-tunes HD-2's around here - 93.9 HD2 is 70's and 80's, 101.9 HD2 is a simulcast of the wtmx.com 80's stream, 104.3 HD2 is what Magic 104 used to be, and 107.5 HD2 is a good old school hip hop station (ran across them a couple times playing the radio version of 2 Live Crew's "Me So Horny", which is more than worth the price of admission especially if you remember the original lyrics). These are all commercial free, but alas, also probably not listened to by very many... 94.7 HD2 also simulcasts WLS AM 890, which is a nice higher fidelity alternative to when their AM counterpart either weakens the signal strength to the north and/or shuts off their HD portion at night. I also find 97.9 HD3 to be intriguing, since they're otherwise carrying south Asian programming on the Loop of all places; however their HD3 is also the hardest of the main signals to hold steady while 25 miles out.

As for sound quality, the HD portion on FM is not quite "CD quality" like they say, but actually seems to be more like listening to a 96k or 112k stream. The few HD3's seem more like 64k streams. I actually think you'd notice the most improvement in HD radio fidelity on the AM band, but reduced signal power and directional changes at night hamper the benefits considerably, not to mention that majority of the AM outlets here do not have a digital carrier at all.

With regard to sound quality on Sirius, their fidelity was never great to begin with. It sounds good from the reduced fidelity equipment in your car, but you can hear the deficits on a home stereo for sure. All I can say is that satellite radio has gotten me through more than a few long drives in a manner that traditional radio could not. That it does not fade out when you drive across the country is probably its most significant asset. With regard to the programming, while the merger appears to have "mainstreamed" the music channels, I do not see this as a bad thing. It seems that they actually supplanted most of the Sirius stations with their XM equivalents, and in some areas I'm actually hearing a greater variety than before.

That said, with the Internet and all, our days of getting radio from the air by any method may be numbered no matter what. HD radio is a woefully insufficient crutch to prop up terrestrial radio, and it is quite doubtful that satellite radio would be able to get back into the black especially with the economy.

It doesn't seem quite that bad - at least overall. The only HD1 stations around here that sound that bad are the really loud, heavy metal Rock stations.

If you're talking about Sirius/XM, the sound quality of that has deteriorated even further with the recent channel (not company) merger to the point that it sounds like a bad, AM pocket transistor radio. It has absolutely no dynamic range and is very thin and tinny-sounding. And loud stuff is just a garbled mess.

Even the longtime subscribers in the forums here and elsewhere complain about it constantly, and, along with losing some of their favorite stations (after Sirius/XM lied and said there would be no changes), the repetitive, shrunken playlists that sticks more to the "hits", having more mainstream Rock than anything eclectic anymore, now-censored Hip Hop stations, commercials, price raises and DJ's constant yakking since the merger, have found it just one more reason to cancel - which is just what a lot of them have been doing.

As far as the power on HD Radio, yeah, they definitely need to boost it up. I can't get too much out here from the city in Crystal Lake. Seems I get more NPR stations from every which direction than anything else - which I like - but it would be nice to get WXRT's 2 channels, and WNUA's HD2 one, too. At least I get The Drive's HD2 "Deep Tracks" sub, which is probably my favorite channel of all.

Following up on a few posts back, although 26-4 is now correct, the data for programming on 26-2 is not matching what is being shown...or else Superman now looks a lot like Jethro Bodine :)

Following up on a few posts back, although 26-4 is now correct, the data for programming on 26-2 is not matching what is being shown...or else Superman now looks a lot like Jethro Bodine :)

Good lord. I really hate my guide data some days.

Can you give me an update on what you guys are doing to fix the Video Stuttering problem? I'm trying to be patient- really.

A crawl during "Wheel of Fortune" Monday evening said to rescan our digital tuners after 12:00 PM on June 12 because WLS's digital signal is moving from 52 to 7.  So I guess they'll be cutting over at noon CDT and shutting analog off perhaps a moment before.

The crawl also recommended making sure that one has an antenna good for both VHF and UHF.  Sadly it was spoiled by repeatedly using "HDTV" to mean any TV with an ATSC tuner.

Can you give me an update on what you guys are doing to fix the Video Stuttering problem? I'm trying to be patient- really.

I don't think it's a case of anyone at the station personally doing anything, per se. I think it's a case of waiting for the people who make their HD broadcasting equipment to push through engineering changes, then trying them.

The crawl also recommended making sure that one has an antenna good for both VHF and UHF.* Sadly it was spoiled by repeatedly using "HDTV" to mean any TV with an ATSC tuner.

Yeah, but to Joe Public those terms are essentially the same thing. I know the difference, and I still don't know that it really matters. You can't have OTA high def without ATSC, so if you do have high def OTA, then you must have an ATSC tuner. So there's not much point in being 100% semantically correct, especially since it'll confuse Joe Public with yet another acronym.

Anyone know of a change in CBS 58 out of Milwaukee? One of my converter boxes wouldn't tune in to it w/o a rescan. I'm guessing maybe they changed frequencies?

Anyone know of a change in CBS 58 out of Milwaukee? One of my converter boxes wouldn't tune in to it w/o a rescan. I'm guessing maybe they changed frequencies?

It's still on RF46. Comes in well on the North Shore.

I don't think it's a case of anyone at the station personally doing anything, per se. I think it's a case of waiting for the people who make their HD broadcasting equipment to push through engineering changes, then trying them.

From reading previous posts I gathered that the station is using the latest high end equipment. Too bad they could not have worked out the bugs before bringing it online. As I stated before, I was not having any trouble before end of February 09, whereas others were having problems earlier. I assume WCIU must be changing something- upgrading, etc.
Why dont the other stations have this problem? Different equipment?

From reading previous posts I gathered that the station is using the latest high end equipment. Too bad they could not have worked out the bugs before bringing it online. There really is no way for us to test DTV encoders offline for events like this. We did test them for several weeks off line for quality.

As I stated before, I was not having any trouble before end of February 09, whereas others were having problems earlier. I assume WCIU must be changing something- upgrading, etc.
We have made some changes recommended by the manufacturer and have done some tweaking on our end as well. One of the problems we run into is we cannot see the problem from here. While most stations use professional tuners to monitor their stations, we use consumer set top boxes to monitor our DTV channels. Unfortunately ours dont display the studdering problem. We have one in house now that does show the problem.

Why dont the other stations have this problem? Different equipment?
Yes. I believe WTTW has a similar setup. This problem is the sort of thing that happens when all the planets align properly and its a matter of finding the source.

Thanks for taking the time out to clear things up. There may be hope yet. I have no problems with WTTW, WPWR. Only 26.1. Not even the others (26.2, 26.3, 26.4, on Physical 27. Can you explain this?
Its hard to believe that with all the Tvs out there with identical tuners that 26.1 is the only station that is having to figure this out.

I have 2 rooms in the house with no antena jack, one will have a zenith 19 digial tv the other a analog magnavox 15" tv, neither of these rooms right now work well with "rabbit ears" even though they are by a window
What antenna do you suggest that I could either place under it or next to it to bring in reception. I will probably be using the zenith 901 box with the analog in my office
I saw all kind in another thread, and by the time I read it all, some were discontinued and others confused by
Best buy had a RCA 1450,1400,1250b,1500 that are flat and I thought might be good??
and radio shack had a terk tv3 and a 15-1868
ANY thoughts on these or any other suggestins
I am in hoffman estates which is about 30 mi nw from sears tower

Thanks for taking the time out to clear things up. There may be hope yet. I have no problems with WTTW, WPWR. Only 26.1. Not even the others (26.2, 26.3, 26.4, on Physical 27. Can you explain this?
Its hard to believe that with all the Tvs out there with identical tuners that 26.1 is the only station that is having to figure this out.

26.1 has a different model encoder.

Yeah, but to Joe Public those terms are essentially the same thing.That is all the more reason that WLS should not be reinforcing that fallacy.You can't have OTA high def without ATSC, so if you do have high def OTA, then you must have an ATSC tuner.But not necessarily the reverse.  There are SDTVs (such as the two in our home) and EDTVs and converter boxes that support ATSC but do not have high-definition output.

26.1 has a different model encoder.

Another thing I noticed that when the blue crawl at the bottom of the screen promoting the digital transition comes on, the video will be OK. As soon as that crawl stops the video goes back to studdering, could this have anything to do with the problem.

Another thing I noticed that when the blue crawl at the bottom of the screen promoting the digital transition comes on, the video will be OK. As soon as that crawl stops the video goes back to studdering, could this have anything to do with the problem.

Interresting...........

Why dont the other stations have this problem?

Channel 50.1 also has the video stuttering problem, although it's not as severe as on 26.1. The stuttering only occurs on one of my TVs (Olevia 537 LCD). My workaround is to use an outboard LG tuner which doesn't have the stuttering. It sure would be great to see this issued finally remedied though. :)

Channel 50.1 also has the video stuttering problem, although it's not as severe as on 26.1.Yes, I noticed it again on 50.1 yesterday.

On another note: tropo must be especially good tonight, because I'm picking up WYIN-DT on my DTV Pal right now, even withough an amp. Also, 16.1 from South Bend must've come in at some time, because it "self-programmed" itself into the tuner (isn't coming in at the moment, though).

And, on yet another note: I sure hope WCIU-DT doesn't have that problem during the Sox games otherwise I'll really be pulling my hair out. That's something I just absolutely have to watch in HD. That's why I spent all the money I did on my display - mainly for sports, and the Sox games in particular.

The Cub game looked worse last night than I can ever remember their games looking before (miniblocking/blurring) - and I really don't want to have only that to watch the games in HD/digital on. Besides, they don't show the Sox that much, anyway.

I may have to even upgrade to Dish HD with CSN to see the Sox in HD. Granted, it won't look that great, but I'd rather put up with the overcompression artifacts and the down-rezzing than the stuttering. At least it's actually still watchable. (I don't remember it ever doing that during the games last year - even when it was doing on Bernie Mac, etc. But since their last major attempt at "fixing it", it's been doing it 24/7 here on everything now - on all my tuners. I can't and don't watch the digital channel at all anymore.)

None of my tv tuners (Zenith, Sony and Directv receivers) have any problem with video stutter on 26-1 (WCIU), but they all show video stutter on 50-1 (WPWR) when the program was originally shot on film. Video taped or live shots are fine. Good thing I rarely try to watch 50-1.

WGN should be ashamed of the quality of hd they broadcast. Any scene with fine detail actually has a shimmer effect along with tons of pixilization during scene changes or fade outs.

I may have to even upgrade to Dish HD with CSN to see the Sox in HD.
You might want to upgrade to uverse or directv, Dish doesnt offer all the games in HD as they dont have CCSNCH in full time. They dont have any of the RSN's in full time. Where as everyone else does, Including the RSN alt channel in HD.

That is all the more reason that WLS should not be reinforcing that fallacy.But not necessarily the reverse.* There are SDTVs (such as the two in our home) and EDTVs and converter boxes that support ATSC but do not have high-definition output.

I'm sure WLS would be happy to accomodate, as long as you give them permission to put your phone number on the scrolly for all the confused and irate people to call when they don't understand why they have to upgrade their new HDTV converter boxes to ATSC models. (And they will call!)

Remember, Joe Public can't figure out a regular converter box. Now you expect him to understand that it's really an ATSC converter box, not a 'high def' converter box? Please!

Univision, Telemundo, and Telefutra going hd soon? Univision announced today that they would be airing the world cup in HD on all three channels, via their stations.

WSNS-DT 44-1 is already broadcasting in 1080i.
Whether they actually do something in widescreen is another question.

WSNS-DT 44-1 is already broadcasting in 1080i.
Whether they actually do something in widescreen is another question.

Definitively answered right here:

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=1134559

Univision, Telemundo, and Telefutra going hd soon? Univision announced today that they would be airing the world cup in HD on all three channels, via their stations.

I've heard Univision and Telefutura would be going HD later this year, but no specific timetable. And then there's this:

http://www.tvweek.com/news/2009/04/univision_to_air_2010_fifa_wor.php

And those are the last three stations to be HD-capable in our market...well, excluding TBN on WWTO-DT.

And those are the last two stations to be HD-capable in our market...well, excluding TBN on WWTO-DT.

What about WJYS?

- Trip

I'm sure WLS would be happy to accomodate [sic], as long as you give them permission to put your phone number on the scrolly for all the confused and irate people to call when they don't understand why they have to upgrade their new HDTV converter boxes to ATSC models.  (And they will call!)

Remember, Joe Public can't figure out a regular converter box.  Now you expect him to understand that it's really an ATSC converter box, not a 'high def' converter box?  Please!

What the heck do you think I was saying?  WLS's crawl used "HDTV" to mean an ATSC-capable television.  The two are not interchangeable.  They should have used "DTV" or "digital television."  Instead, their crawl said that to receive digital TV you need an HDTV or a converter box, and I posted that they were in error.

There are non-HD TVs with ATSC tuners.  They are ready and do not need converter boxes.

There are HDTVs without ATSC tuners.  They are not ready unless the output of an ATSC tuner is fed into them.

And now you're reacting to me as if I were making, rather than correcting, WLS's erroneous statement.

What about WJYS?

- Trip

Ahhh, forgot about them. With their analog in Tinley Park, and a currently severely minimized digital signal due to 36 in Milwaukee, ya gotta give me some grace on that one!

Thanks. Corrected my post above.

You might want to upgrade to uverse or directv, Dish doesnt offer all the games in HD as they dont have CCSNCH in full time. They dont have any of the RSN's in full time. Where as everyone else does, Including the RSN alt channel in HD.Whoa...I'm glad you warned me of that. Thanks.

(That's actually extra disappointing though, because none of the others have cheaper, HD-only packages.)

Late yesterday afternoon I was surprised to see the WCIU 26.1 was watchable again. No video stutters!

Late yesterday afternoon I was surprised to see the WCIU 26.1 was watchable again. No video stutters!

You noticed that too, huh. ;)

Yes it is true- as above post mentions- last night when I finally had a chance to watch TV- guess what? WCIU with no stuttering. I wanted to wait until morning just in case I was dreaming, but the same this morning. The Video Stuttering problem is GONE. Thank YOU! Now I dont have to buy another new TV.:) Please dont change ANYTHING!

Seems like WPWR is having a similar problem but it is affecting different tuners. I am glad mine is not one of them. However, I hope as they try to fix their problem they do not mess up the signal for my tuner.
Anyone else feel like they are part of R&D?

Anyway, Congrats to the WCIU guys. I take back everything I said.....

Late yesterday afternoon I was surprised to see the WCIU 26.1 was watchable again. No video stutters!Yes, I sure couldn't help but notice that either myself last night. :eek:

(At least on the program I was watching - but it wasn't Bernie Mac or King of Queens, so we shall see if it holds up across the board and is for real. I will be watching carefully.)

Late yesterday afternoon I was surprised to see the WCIU 26.1 was watchable again. No video stutters!

I'll have to watch closely today in case it comes back for me. I had problems until February.