I just wanted to let everyone know that I had my Winegard HD7084P antenna installed on 4/7 to my two TV's and everything is working great. I can pick up all the stations (2.1, 5.1, 7.1, 9.1, 11.1 20.1, 26.1, 32.1, 38.1 44.1, 50.1 60.1, and 66.1) at 92, 95 or 98%. WBBM-DT is coming in at 98%. I also get 62.1 at 70%. I told the installer where to point the antenna and when the hookup was complete everything came in strong with no adjustments needed. All the analog stations come in clear as well. Last night and this morning picked up 16.1 out of South Bend at 62%. My only disappointment is that I cannot pick up 56.1, from what I have read I cannot pick it up here.

Thanks to everyone for their help. I think that everyone can learn from the article on getting WBBM-DT. It's best to determine what you plan to have for your setup before you start. Choose a setup that will use the least amount of cable and splits to prevent signal loss.

I have noticed recently that there are more antennas on houses in my subdivision (and other suburbs as well) than I realized. In my area of Glenview I would estimate somewhere between 10-15% of the houses have an outdoor antenna. I've talked to three people at work who have expressed an interest in putting up an antenna on their homes.

I also wanted to point out on the list of digital stations does not mention that WLS is moving back to 7 in 2009.

WMAQ is the biggest piece of crap station here in Chicago. How can they not pass along the NHL game in HD, that's just pathetic. Some of the time, they don't "flip the switch" for their primetime shows to be in HD either.

They suck :mad:

I just wanted to let everyone know that I had my Winegard HD7084P antenna installed on 4/7 to my two TV's and everything is working great. I can pick up all the stations (2.1, 5.1, 7.1, 9.1, 11.1 20.1, 26.1, 32.1, 38.1 44.1, 50.1 60.1, and 66.1) at 92, 95 or 98%. WBBM-DT is coming in at 98%. I also get 62.1 at 70%. I told the installer where to point the antenna and when the hookup was complete everything came in strong with no adjustments needed. All the analog stations come in clear as well. Last night and this morning picked up 16.1 out of South Bend at 62%. My only disappointment is that I cannot pick up 56.1, from what I have read I cannot pick it up here.

Thanks to everyone for their help. I think that everyone can learn from the article on getting WBBM-DT. It's best to determine what you plan to have for your setup before you start. Choose a setup that will use the least amount of cable and splits to prevent signal loss.

I have noticed recently that there are more antennas on houses in my subdivision (and other suburbs as well) than I realized. In my area of Glenview I would estimate somewhere between 10-15% of the houses have an outdoor antenna. I've talked to three people at work who have expressed an interest in putting up an antenna on their homes.

I also wanted to point out on the list of digital stations does not mention that WLS is moving back to 7 in 2009.

Hey JM,

Way to go! You probably won't be able to pick up 56.1, but you also aren't pointed at it. If you wanted to get a rotor, you could also probably get Milwaukee on a semi-regular basis as well. 62.1 that far north is impressive. They effectively throw only 3 kilowatts your way, plus you also have to reject the Milwaukee PBS analog station (36) off the back end.

(Red-faced) Fixed WLS-DT's entry, thanks!

Also, since warmer weather is (finally) upon us, for those of you who wanted to put antennas on your roof, think about doing it now (Especially after you get your tax refund! :D ). You should have at least one reasonable nice day to get up there on a Friday late afternoon/evening or Saturday/Sunday to do it. Especially those who have planned for a while (Ramm <cough cough> :D ).

(Red-faced) Fixed WLS-DT's entry, thanks!




Hi Gilbert, I am not going to hold that against you, but you have greatly done a fantastic job of updating the Chicago OTA thread. ;)

-Willie

This isn't surprising considering that WTTW is running 3 subchannels and also downconverts 11-1 to 720P. It looked much better a year or so ago when it passed through PBS programming at 1080i and had only one subchannel.

I happened to find a review of the BD version of the "Nature's Colors" program at http://www.dvdtalk.com/reviews/read.php?ID=27385 It appears that the source material has its own issues, independent of WTTWD's transmission methods.

I just installed an antenna to get Chicago DTV stations. I am outside McHenry and I am getting all Chicago channels with the exception of 2 WBBM. My question is why does channel 5 and 9 broadcast with the black bars on the side. This was a big disappointment. 32 Fox and WLS 7 look great.

I just installed an antenna to get Chicago DTV stations. I am outside McHenry and I am getting all Chicago channels with the exception of 2 WBBM. My question is why does channel 5 and 9 broadcast with the black bars on the side. This was a big disappointment. 32 Fox and WLS 7 look great.That's just when the show is in 4:3 mode, rather than 16:9 widescreen. It's pretty much always that the show is also not in true HD. (WLS and WFLD, and all the others that show HD will be the same when they show 4:3 broadcasts - you probably just haven't seen any on those yet.) The only thing you can really do is use a stretch (or zoom) mode on either your tuner or display to fill the screen (if they have one).

And welcome to the Chicago OTA forum!

You could probably also get many of the Rockford and Milwaukee channels from up there - considering I can get all of Rockford regularly, and Milwaukee intermittantly from a bit south of you in C.L.

I happened to find a review of the BD version of the "Nature's Colors" program at http://www.dvdtalk.com/reviews/read.php?ID=27385 It appears that the source material has its own issues, independent of WTTWD's transmission methods.Yeah, it's pretty evident when watching that it's pretty inconsistent among scenes. Some are fairly sharp, where others are slightly soft. And the amount of fine detail varies, too.

Still, I must say it looks great on a Pioneer plasma - which is just made to show off something as colorful as that. It's almost psychedelic.

Thanks for the input. Do you have any luck getting WBBM in C.L.

Also, since warmer weather is (finally) upon us, for those of you who wanted to put antennas on your roof, think about doing it now (Especially after you get your tax refund! :D ). You should have at least one reasonable nice day to get up there on a Friday late afternoon/evening or Saturday/Sunday to do it. Especially those who have planned for a while (Ramm <cough cough> :D ).Yeah, yeah, I know :rolleyes:. I thought I heard sumpthin' on today's weather that said it was going to get colder again :rolleyes:. Man, my body's just gettin too darned old to take this kind of stuff ;). Whatever happened to Spring and Fall? It's like they don't even exist anymore :( .

Thanks for the input. Do you have any luck getting WBBM in C.L.I "could" get it - it's just that I'm currently only using an indoor antenna (which can't get it - not from indoors, anyway) and a UHF-only antenna outdoors (both being combined to the TV with an A/B switch).

But I experimented quite a bit last summer, and I can get it with the proper setup. I was actually getting it at 60 - 67% with just a 4-foot wide (or so) Channel Master "Stealthtenna", and I could also receive it with fully extended rabbit ears from outside on my front porch (which faces south). I just need to get a good VHF/UHF combo unit up on the roof (with a rotor, of course - then I should get Milwaukee better, too).

I can get WIFR-DT, which is CBS, from Rockford pretty steadily with both antennas now, though.

I'm up on a hill, and I also have a totally clear shot towards Rockford, so those things are in my favor, too.

Gilbert and Rammitinski,

I have moved and now I losted all my Chicago station but I am using my homebuilt DB-2 antenna w/cm 7777 for now but I did pick up Madison Fox 47 which is on DT 11 and I was able to lock on it from 2nd floor facing the west and I am just under 60 miles away and was able to get the Milwaukee PBS 10 DT-8 locked too and that went though 2 other units facing Northeast 43 miles away. SO now I can get all Rockford, Madison and Milwaukee station and zip on Chicago. maybe this weekend I will get the 4228 set up and see if that will help the Chicago station. According to the antennaweb I should be 73 miles away from the Chicago stations but I will have to go though 5 units.

I post back when I get the 4228 set up.


-Willie

I happened to find a review of the BD version of the "Nature's Colors" program at http://www.dvdtalk.com/reviews/read.php?ID=27385 It appears that the source material has its own issues, independent of WTTWD's transmission methods.


There is along debate about 720p vs. 1080i. Both formats have their pluses and minuses progressive rate usually means more picture stablity while 1080 lines offer more definition... The debate is not over and both formats have their fans...
1080P offers the best of both worlds but without switching over to MPEG4 I do not see tham happening for broadcast TV...
Nevertheless, 720p does not necessarily means lower quality...

...Nevertheless, 720p does not necessarily means lower quality...
I tend to agree with you. There are several folks here who feel that the current 720p with three SD channels is significantly degraded from the earlier 1080i when there was only one SD channel. I currently have a 720 projector acquired after the switch. So I have no first hand experience with WTTW's 1080i signal (except that it looked great on a 480p projector).

In my view, the quality of the actual source is still probably the most important factor. The interesting thing about Nature's Colors is that we could compare an HD DVD version to WTTW's signal. Though not having a DVR, I'd have to go by memory unless it is rebroadcast when I have the HD DVD on hand.

I think the biggest problem with WTTW's switch to 720p is that they are upconverting and downconverting everything. That stands in contrast to say Fox Sports, where 720p really shines.

The Sox game looked great tonight in 720P as well. BTW, thanks to hvs10trk for getting the little colored bar in the left bottom corner removed from the WCIU HD picture.

The Sox game looked great tonight in 720P as well. BTW, thanks to hvs10trk for getting the little colored bar in the left bottom corner removed from the WCIU HD picture.
:D Don't think we've seen the last of it yet but I've got my fingers crossed.

Can't watch Idol OTA feed, what happened... :eek:

Just lost Fox 32-1. No signal on either of my TVs. Anyone else?

WFLD-DT is out, which is disgraceful considering it's during their #1 show. Imagine that in 2009, we will no longer have the analog feed to fall back on...

WFLD-DT is out, which is disgraceful considering it's during their #1 show. Imagine that in 2009, we will no longer have the analog feed to fall back on...

I switched to Milwaukee 6-1. Looks fine there. Definitely something with WFLD.

Same here, was watching on 190 via comcast, switche to the analog version

WFLD-DT is out, which is disgraceful considering it's during their #1 show. Imagine that in 2009, we will no longer have the analog feed to fall back on...
Anolog looks better than my cable feed

This Wednesday evening, both WPWR-DT and WFLD-DT's transmitters went out.
As other AVS'ers have indicated it happened during "American Idol". And while WFLD-DT appears to be back at full power (although the picture looks a bit soft on "The Simpsons" right now), WPWR-DT appears to be completely off the air. While I cannot verify directly, I am getting a solid picture on WCFC-CA 51 from Rockford, which never happens anymore; it is also coming in with the antenna pointed towards Chicago, with no visible digital hashing. If they are broadcasting at all, it has to be at extremely low power. Needless to say, the signal strength meter on WPWR-DT 51 (resolving to 50.1) is flat at zero out here.

I don't know the cause, but hopefully their neighbor, WCIU-DT's HVS can do a little legwork for me...or maybe a WFLD-DT engineer can hop aboard here and speak up. Will post anything more when I get it, unless someone (hopefully) beats me to it...

I am getting a solid picture on WCFC-CA 51 from Rockford, which never happens anymore....Hey, you're right. I just checked, and I'm receiving it too, although it's somewhat snowy here. I think this is the first time I can actually ever recall seeing the station.

Anolog looks better than my cable feedI don't doubt that. I've had both cable and OTA analog which blows away my present, cr@ppy E* SD satellite signals.

"Digital" is not always automatically better.

I don't doubt that. I've had both cable and OTA analog which blows away my present, cr@ppy E* SD satellite signals.

"Digital" is not always automatically better.
Agree'd. : ) Digital is just a method of transmission (a carrier). You can pipe static into a digital signal and its still digital.

This Wednesday evening, both WPWR-DT and WFLD-DT's transmitters went out.
As other AVS'ers have indicated it happened during "American Idol". And while WFLD-DT appears to be back at full power (although the picture looks a bit soft on "The Simpsons" right now), WPWR-DT appears to be completely off the air. While I cannot verify directly, I am getting a solid picture on WCFC-CA 51 from Rockford, which never happens anymore; it is also coming in with the antenna pointed towards Chicago, with no visible digital hashing. If they are broadcasting at all, it has to be at extremely low power. Needless to say, the signal strength meter on WPWR-DT 51 (resolving to 50.1) is flat at zero out here.

I don't know the cause, but hopefully their neighbor, WCIU-DT's HVS can do a little legwork for me...or maybe a WFLD-DT engineer can hop aboard here and speak up. Will post anything more when I get it, unless someone (hopefully) beats me to it...
Initially what I have heard was something in WFLD's DTV path/airchain failed and they borrowed WPWR's DTV path/airchain. Did not hear that from their engineering staff so it may not be creditable info.

My wife is a rabid American Idol fan, so... You would not believe the tongue-lashing I received when WFLD-DT went down last night during American Idol. I was personally cursed out, the Dish Network ViP 622 receiver was cursed out, and there was much stomping around. I believe the 622 would have been "marked for death" had I not later confirmed that it was something wrong on the WFLD side and not on the Dish Network software side.

Sheesh. They need to get their crap together over there at Fox.

The problem is that the stations don't consider ATSC critical at this time, so there's not the same amount of redundancy as when compared to the NTSC system. Hopefully soon they'll realize that there's a bunch of ATSC folks out there and spend the $'s to add the same level of redundancy that NTSC has.

The problem is that the stations don't consider ATSC critical at this time, so there's not the same amount of redundancy as when compared to the NTSC system. Hopefully soon they'll realize that there's a bunch of ATSC folks out there and spend the $'s to add the same level of redundancy that NTSC has.
Stations do consider redundancy for ATSC, but its REALLY expensive!! There are several stations here in chicago that have bigtime redundancy. We're in fact finishing up on our Back-up ATSC airchains as I speak. We have a few technical glitches to work out and it will be finished. Although if we ever had to use the backup it would not be HD, but it beats being off the air. We have no backup DTV transmitter yet, but come 2009 that could be a whole different story.

I would be perfectly willing to accept a drop to standard definition, as frequently happens during "severe weather" conditions, where the existing equipment apparently isn't capable of overlaying the ticker on the digital broadcasts. Anything is better than the channel being completely dead!

This is particularly true in my case, since I have the non-HD versions of all the channels hidden in my guide. Basically, I don't want to have anyone in the house accidentally watching the SD versions, but that means that they're hard to get to in the event of some sort of snafu on the HD channel.

We have no backup DTV transmitter yet, but come 2009 that could be a whole different story.
What about the 15 kilowatter you had? Can't that be pressed into service?

I don't understand - was the analog signal off, too? It comes in so well even way out here by me, and even with just an indoor antenna, that sometimes I'll accidently put it on instead of the digital version, and it can be awhile before I even realize it (usually after I notice it on the tuner). Of course, I'm speaking mainly of with SD programming on, but even that looks exceptionally good.

What about the 15 kilowatter you had? Can't that be pressed into service?
Slated for South Bend.

Slated for South Bend.
You know, I was going to joke about that. And then I realized...that's probably the reason! Whoo hoo! Do I get a free HDTV from WCIU engineering for guessing correctly, even though I didn't guess publicly? :rolleyes: :D

Oh, and Ramm, WFLD-TV and WPWR-TV were both fine. It only affected the digital paths to Sears. And I forgot to post that both are back on and fixed.

You know, I was going to joke about that. And then I realized...that's probably the reason! Whoo hoo! Do I get a free HDTV from WCIU engineering for guessing correctly, even though I didn't guess publicly? :rolleyes: :D

Oh, and Ramm, WFLD-TV and WPWR-TV were both fine. It only affected the digital paths to Sears. And I forgot to post that both are back on and fixed.
We already give you free HDTV. Its on 26-1. :D Sorry couldn't resist.

Speaking of 26-1, I thought I'd post an interesting thing I've noticed.

We have a lot of fans of the "King of Queens" sitcom in this house, so we watch that a lot on WCIU. For reasons having nothing to do with picture quality, we were, primarily, recording the reruns off of the D* SD feed of 26. However, we noticed something very strange: color shifting. Well, that's not the right term, but I don't know what would be.

Remember on old analog color TVs how some had a "color" adjustment dial? Dialing it up made the colors bright and intense (and, eventually, intolerable) whereas dialing it down muted the colors (and, eventually, eliminated them). Well...watching KoQ on the D* feed is like watching something while your little kid spins the dial up and down periodically. It's terribly distracting.

I started recording the OTA feed off 26.1, and not only is the picture far superior in general, but the colors are much brighter and crisper...and, of course, stable.

Just thought I'd mention it, as that color thing is something I had not seen before. :)

Speaking of 26-1, I thought I'd post an interesting thing I've noticed.

We have a lot of fans of the "King of Queens" sitcom in this house, so we watch that a lot on WCIU. For reasons having nothing to do with picture quality, we were, primarily, recording the reruns off of the D* SD feed of 26. However, we noticed something very strange: color shifting. Well, that's not the right term, but I don't know what would be.

Remember on old analog color TVs how some had a "color" adjustment dial? Dialing it up made the colors bright and intense (and, eventually, intolerable) whereas dialing it down muted the colors (and, eventually, eliminated them). Well...watching KoQ on the D* feed is like watching something while your little kid spins the dial up and down periodically. It's terribly distracting.

I started recording the OTA feed off 26.1, and not only is the picture far superior in general, but the colors are much brighter and crisper...and, of course, stable.

Just thought I'd mention it, as that color thing is something I had not seen before. :)
Hi Cheer,

Great to hear feedback. I too have D* and have noticed our signal isn't what's leaving the building. I would have to say the color shifting your seeing is quite possibly their RX gear. They receive us via analog OTA so anything is possible.

i know this is a topic of much debate in lots of places, but do any of the stations in the chicago market use the broadcast flag in their ota signals (or plan on it in the future)?

i am considering using the new digital pci express digital tuner made by hp for use in my laptop and vista mce, and (apparently) if the broadcast flag is present the file is then only available for viewing on the recording pc versus no broadcast flag/full file distribution.

thanks in advance.

I haven't run across it recording HD OTA broadcast to a Panny ES-10 DVD recorder.

i know this is a topic of much debate in lots of places, but do any of the stations in the chicago market use the broadcast flag in their ota signals (or plan on it in the future)?

i am considering using the new digital pci express digital tuner made by hp for use in my laptop and vista mce, and (apparently) if the broadcast flag is present the file is then only available for viewing on the recording pc versus no broadcast flag/full file distribution.

thanks in advance.
Negative on 26.1, 2, or 3.

I'm looking at getting a RS VU-190XR antenna for the church I work at in Crystal Lake.

Will we need a preamp to get WBBM-DT?

Thanks!


tim

I'm looking at getting a RS VU-190XR antenna for the church I work at in Crystal Lake.

Will we need a preamp to get WBBM-DT?

Thanks!


tim

Hey Tim,

Don't do it if it's an outdoor antenna. It will get ripped up in a few years.
Get the Winegard HD8200:

https://www.tselectronic.com/winegard/hd8200.html

At 60' up, with a ChannelMaster 7777 preamp, and by replacing a few bad connectors, we once again peg the signal meter at Willow Creek's satellite church in Crystal Lake with this setup. It is 40' up in the air, though. As for an amplifier, we got it to pick up Rockford and Milwaukee, and it is on a rotor to do so. It gets all the digital channels from each market. You might be able to do it without an amplifier with this antenna.

I'm looking at getting a RS VU-190XR antenna for the church I work at in Crystal Lake.

Will we need a preamp to get WBBM-DT?

Thanks!


timGilbert's right.

With the winds we get up here, the VU-190XR will get demolished in no time.

Negative on 26.1, 2, or 3.Whew!!

That really puts my mind at ease to know that there will never be any problem recording from 26-3.

;) :)

Hey Tim,

Don't do it if it's an outdoor antenna. It will get ripped up in a few years.
Get the Winegard HD8200:

https://www.tselectronic.com/winegard/hd8200.html

At 60' up, with a ChannelMaster 7777 preamp, and by replacing a few bad connectors, we once again peg the signal meter at Willow Creek's satellite church in Crystal Lake with this setup. It is 40' up in the air, though. As for an amplifier, we got it to pick up Rockford and Milwaukee, and it is on a rotor to do so. It gets all the digital channels from each market. You might be able to do it without an amplifier with this antenna.

Thanks for the info. That helps a lot.

If you know Gary Melder or Matt Wentz (both tech people at Willow) tell them I said hi.


tim (tech director right across the tracks at CL EV Free)

I've had a VU-160 up for 6 years. A bird strike took out one VHF element but it still works fine. Pigeons don't see very well directly ahead, especially when fleeing a hawk.

Well, I'm only a few blocks away from him, and that wind that we had a couple of weeks or so back did a number on some of the cheap, Philips antennas I see around me. I noticed more than a few bent and missing elements. I even saw a couple of antennas that were laying sideways on their roofs in town afterwards. One of my E* satellite dishes (the 61.5) kept breaking up on and off. That's the first time that's happened in the 2+ years I've had them.

It can get pretty violent around here at times. The RS might very well withstand it, but I still wouldn't recommend it, based on living in this area for over 12 years. 40 MPH winds are not that uncommon (I'm sure that Tim can confirm this), and I can remember a 60 MPH one which literally bowed the wall on my house. Scared the living s**t out of me (I've told this story to Gilbert before).

And if he's right on the other side of the tracks from Willow Creek, that's all pretty open over there (although, depending on exactly where he's at, there are some trees).

Thanks for the info. That helps a lot.

If you know Gary Melder or Matt Wentz (both tech people at Willow) tell them I said hi.


tim (tech director right across the tracks at CL EV Free)

Tim,

Saw 'em tonight. Will do!

Greywolf,

LOL! However, I must say that the current crop of VU-190s made today are nferior than the past. Head to Radioshack.com and do a search on VU-190...then view the stories of the antenna being blown apart after less than 2 years.

The pigeon hit the element so hard, when it finally work hardened itself in several months of waving in the wind and fell off, there were still some feathers stuck to it. :D

The pigeon hit the element so hard, when it finally work hardened itself in several months of waving in the wind and fell off, there were still some feathers stuck to it. :D

All you pigeons monitoring the board, take notes here! :D

Tim,

Saw 'em tonight. Will do!

Greywolf,

LOL! However, I must say that the current crop of VU-190s made today are nferior than the past. Head to Radioshack.com and do a search on VU-190...then view the stories of the antenna being blown apart after less than 2 years.


Ain't that the truth seam their prices goes up but the quality of material has gone down. It just seam most manufactures have been pushing quantity instead of quality workmanship.


-Willie

The pigeon hit the element so hard, when it finally work hardened itself in several months of waving in the wind and fell off, there were still some feathers stuck to it. :D


greywolf,

Maybe you need to put up a decoy hawk by the antenna so the pigeon don't fly into it. :D


-Willie

The pigeon hit the element so hard, when it finally work hardened itself in several months of waving in the wind and fell off, there were still some feathers stuck to it. :D
Too bad pigeons aren't good eating. :eek:

Right now our goal to have WWME-LD signed on is end the of year. Yeah, yeah thats kinda a rough time frame but it's all I have right now. Updates will follow and maybe some pics.

How does WWME-LD differ from the present 26-2?

The pigeon hit the element so hard, when it finally work hardened itself in several months of waving in the wind and fell off, there were still some feathers stuck to it. :D


greywolf, I found you something better I saw this at BBC news today.


The Robops squawk and flap their wings to scare off pigeons

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/merseyside/6469451.stm



- Willie

How does WWME-LD differ from the present 26-2?Other than it will be on its own 23-1, nothing.

Other than it will be on its own 23-1, nothing.Even power-wise? I thought it was going to be lower.

If not, that should be great - NO SUBCHANNELS (at least I hope!). Maybe those basketball games will actually become watchable then ;).

Too bad pigeons aren't good eating. :eek:

That reminds me of a "Married, with Children" episode. You know the running gag about how Peg never cooks, right? - well, there was an episode where they hit a pigeon with the car (or maybe it was Marcy who hit it), and it gets roasted on the hood. Al tells Bud to bring it in (with a pair of forceps), and they feast to their hearts content :D.

That reminds me of a "Married, with Children" episode. You know the running gag about how Peg never cooks, right? - well, there was an episode where they hit a pigeon with the car (or maybe it was Marcy who hit it), and it gets roasted on the hood. Al tells Bud to bring it in (with a pair of forceps), and they feast to their hearts content :D.
LMAO.......ROF..........I can totally picture that too......

Even power-wise? I thought it was going to be lower.
Well yeah that too. You and I probably won't be able to see it until WQRF signs off their analog.

If not, that should be great - NO SUBCHANNELS (at least I hope!). Maybe those basketball games will actually become watchable then ;).
Yeah we're only encoding at 2.9mbit. :eek: Try watching WFBT-LP, its down around 2.0mbit. :eek:

Well yeah that too. You and I probably won't be able to see it until WQRF signs off their analog.Yeah - like Roseanne Rosannadanna says, "It's always somethin'.".

If it ain't WOCH analog interfering with WIFR digital, it's WIFR analog interfering with WWME analog. Now there'll be WQRF analog interfering with WWME digital to have to deal with, too :rolleyes:.

Hey, I hear that the "Spire" in downtown Chicago was approved the other day.

I wonder if any channels are planning on transmitting from there? It sure would help a lot of people's reception if they did.

According to the article I read the other day, the antenna part of the plan has been eliminated.

Hey, I hear that the "Spire" in downtown Chicago was approved the other day.

I wonder if any channels are planning on transmitting from there? It sure would help a lot of people's reception if they did.

According to the article I read the other day, the antenna part of the plan has been eliminated.S**t.

It doesn't really matter, if they put the antennas another 500' up, they'll reduce the power accordingly. And what would REALLY happen? I doubt ALL the stations would move there, and then we'd have three places to try to point at...

Well, it WOULD matter, just BECAUSE of the fact that they're supposed to be reducing power.

At least to a certain percentage of people - me most likely being one of them. It would compensate some - probably enough in my case. Unless they're reducing the power drastically.

But, for someone who's not having much success at getting the channels now, or is even borderline, then you could possibly be right about that.

(As far out as I am, three different locations, as long as they're in or around The Loop, wouldn't matter to someone like me. For people in, and close to downtown, that could potentially make things more difficult, for sure.)

Newby here...

I'm getting started on doing this antenna in the attic thing, but I'm having a hard time finding a "how-to" for absolute beginners. I'm going off the advice of my buddy, who had someone else do it for him.

So I just picked up an antenna today, I'll post the link and maybe someone can tell me if it should work. http://www.radioshack.com/product/index.jsp?productId=2103085&cp=2032057.2032187.2032189.2032205&parentPage=family

Also, I was told I could splice into my existing Dish coax with "diplexers"? Since I dont know what I'm doing, I think my best bet would be to use a separate cable for the antenna, I think I can fish it down from my attic into my basement where it needs to go.

Anything else I need to know? Can someone link me to a "how-to" on this? By the way, I'm out in Aurora.

Thanks.

Just a note that 26-1 looks fantastic out here in Channel Lake via indoor antenna.

The Comcast feed is looking kinda ratty, almost like it's analog SD!!! :rolleyes:

I'm watching the Cubs right now on 26-1. I'm getting a little break-up from my SharpShooter in the attic, but D* is showing it in SD.

I'm mad at myself for not getting Comcast, I could be watching all the Cubs home games in HD. Now I'm doing the antenna thing (as posted above) to get the WGN games. I got the Dish for 'more channels', but more isn't better in this case!

What does "26-1" mean?

I'm mad at myself for not getting Comcast, I could be watching all the Cubs home games in HD. Now I'm doing the antenna thing (as posted above) to get the WGN games. I got the Dish for 'more channels', but more isn't better in this case!

What does "26-1" mean?
26-1 is the digital channel for WCIU-DT which shows the Cubs/Sox/Bulls home games that they carry in HD. If you had a Dish HD receiver get yourself an over the air antenna, hook it up to your Dish receiver and watch WCIU-DT in HD. Go to www.antennaweb.org to see what type of antenna you need.

Thanks Rad. I went to that website but I'm not sure how to use it. I see the color-coding, but the antenna that I just bought today didn't show that color system. At least I didn't see it. But from the description of the antenna, it sounds like it should work.

I plan on running the cable tomorrow. I hope I get it right, I have no clue about any of this stuff!

Newby here...

I'm getting started on doing this antenna in the attic thing, but I'm having a hard time finding a "how-to" for absolute beginners. I'm going off the advice of my buddy, who had someone else do it for him.

So I just picked up an antenna today, I'll post the link and maybe someone can tell me if it should work. http://www.radioshack.com/product/index.jsp?productId=2103085&cp=2032057.2032187.2032189.2032205&parentPage=family

Also, I was told I could splice into my existing Dish coax with "diplexers"? Since I dont know what I'm doing, I think my best bet would be to use a separate cable for the antenna, I think I can fish it down from my attic into my basement where it needs to go.

Anything else I need to know? Can someone link me to a "how-to" on this? By the way, I'm out in Aurora.

Thanks.

Hi MK,

Well, as I'm sure you'll quickly discover, it won't pick up too much, and some channels will break up. Out in Aurora, that antenna is too small for you...even if it was outside. Here's a couple of basics you should know.

1) An antenna indoors, in the attic, reduces signal by an average of 90%. Sometimes you get fortunate and it is only 50%-60%, but I use the common scenario that TV engineers have documented over on the AVS official antenna thread.

2) Radio Shack antennas are notorious for being overrated by a factor of 2 or 3 on how far they pick up signals. The VU-90 only reliably gets you stations 40 miles outdoors. Exceptions are channels 2-6...they are 25%-50% that distance.

OK. So as an antenna installer, what would I do if I were in your shoes?

1) Go with quad-shielded RG-6 cable. If you wish to buy some with the connectors on end, Home Depot and Lowe's carry it. Home Depot also carries it in bulk. You can use regular RG-6, but if you are close to an FM radio station or cell tower, the interference may leak into your coax, causing unpredictable breakups with your signal.

2) Use the Radio Shack VU-190. Please say this will barely fit in your attic:

http://www.radioshack.com/product/index.jsp?productId=2103087&cp

It's big...read the specs...but because attics reduce the signal strength 50%-90%, it's what you will need.

3) Finally, if you still don't get all the channels, you'll need a signal preamplifier.
I would recommend this:

http://www.warrenelectronics.com/antennas/AP8700.htm

Warren Electronics does a very nice job; I ordered most of my antennas and accessories with them. They messed up one order, but when I called them to fix it, not only did they do that, they gave me accessories I forgot to order...for free!
Customer service in this day and age. Who would have thought?

Anyway, a signal preamplifier comes in two pieces. An unpowered portion goes in your attic, and connects to the antenna via an RG-6 cable (as short as possible, preferably less than 20'). Then, from the unpowered portion, RG-6 connects to the powered portion...which will be located behind your TV set, plugged in somewhere. From the powered portion of the preamp, a short RG-6 cable then connects to the connector on the back of your TV.

I have this setup in Elburn in an attic, with the exception that I use a high-powered ChannelMaster 7777 preamplifier because he needed to split his signal 8 ways throughout his house. After replacing old phone and power lines on his house to the pole, he gets WBBM-DT almost all the time, except in thunderstorms and really ugly weather. As you'll soon find, WBBM-DT is at low power and is the hardest station to get.

Finally, with Dish and DirecTV going to MPEG-4 boxes in the next year or two,
you cannot diplex those as Dish uses those frequencies. Definitely run a separate cable.

I hope this helps!

hvs, as you predicted, the red/white bar reappeared in the lower left corner of 26-1 tonight. What is that anyway? This time I changed my HR20 to output 720P. This adds just enough overscan to hide the bar. It also increased the 4:3 viewing width of the Sox game a little (CSCH 640 didn't have widescreen from Kansas City). I was recording both games and switching back and forth.

I'm mad at myself for not getting Comcast, I could be watching all the Cubs home games in HD. Now I'm doing the antenna thing (as posted above) to get the WGN games. I got the Dish for 'more channels', but more isn't better in this case!

What does "26-1" mean?

No, no...Comcast doesn't carry WCIU's HD feed. The only way you can get it is via antenna.

As for 26-1...

WCIU-TV broadcasts over-the-air on analog on channel 26. But, they broadcast a digital signal on channel 27. If you use an analog tuner, all you'd see is a kind of dark "snow" on channel 27. That is, in fact, a digital signal you are seeing that your analog TV doesn't know what to do with.

But...with a digital tuner, if you tune in to channel 27-1, your TV will pick it up, and by the magic of the data sent in the video stream, makes your tuner think it is 26-1, and display as such on your TV. Why the "-1"? Well, because it is digital, stations can actually broadcast multiple video feeds on one channel! This is called "multicasting". Some stations do it; some stations do not. WCIU does: on channel 26-1, you see WCIU as you would on analog (exception high-definition sports broadcasts are presented in high-def, unlike the analog feed). But WCIU also has 26-2, which is a simulcast of analog low-power channel 23 in Chicago, also known as "ME-TV", showing classic TV shows. Finally, 26-3 shows ethnic programming from their low power channel 48.

Generally speaking, if you multicast, the quality of the high-definition picture goes down because you are siphoning away part of the channel to another video stream. But if you do it right, you can still have 3 video streams and have very good HD. WLS-DT (DT stands for "digital TV") is a great example of this. WTTW-DT, when they only had two channels, was also a great example of this. It's not as good now, as they now have 4 channels that they stream.

Check out the first post I have made, and you'll see a link to a channel guide to help you with all these new channels you'll get (but see my post above, you'll need a bigger antenna out in Aurora). And then, keep us posted on what you get.
If you follow the setup above, you'll even occasionally get out-of-market TV stations when warm fronts approach or on calm spring-fall nights, both of which produce temperature inversions that allow signals form hundreds of miles away come in. South Bend, IN and Milwaukee love to come in on many nights between April and October.

Just a note that 26-1 looks fantastic out here in Channel Lake via indoor antenna.

The Comcast feed is looking kinda ratty, almost like it's analog SD!!! :rolleyes:
Good to hear!! That's Comcast for ya!

hvs, as you predicted, the red/white bar reappeared in the lower left corner of 26-1 tonight. What is that anyway? This time I changed my HR20 to output 720P. This adds just enough overscan to hide the bar. It also increased the 4:3 viewing width of the Sox game a little (CSCH 640 didn't have widescreen from Kansas City). I was recording both games and switching back and forth.
Something bad in the firmware of the main processing box for WCIU. We get the same random lines for WBND and WCWW in South Bend. Still waiting on a new firmware update. :(

:D :D Break out the Champagne!!! :D :D

sebenste - thanks for all that info. I've already got the antenna up there, so I might as well try it and hope it works. I was planning on picking up the cable today.

that bigger antenna would probably fit up in my attic. The one I have fits fine up there, it was getting it up thru the attic opening was the challenge.

Thanks again. I'll let you know how it turns out.

UPDATE -

Gilbert, I think I'm going to be fine with this set-up. I just got done hooking it all up; scanned the channels, etc..

It found 30-some channels, most are 83+ signal strength, (the important one being WGN at 100!), and I used regular RG6 coax and the antenna I listed.

The real test will be tomorrow's Cubs game in HD.

Thanks again for the help. I think I'm all set!

Something I've noticed:

The Sox home games on WGN-DT look immaculate and sharp as a tack - the quintessential "looking out a window" experience -

But the Cubs home games are all full of artifacts, are are not nearly as sharp. In fact, they're not really all that much better looking than the Saturday, Fox 480p widescreen games - I'd say sort of in between.

Looks like typical Wrigley/Cubs cheap, skimpy miser-ism (at least up until the last free agency off-season - not that that helped them any ;)) was at work when they purchased and installed their high def cameras :rolleyes:.

If I were a Cub fan, I'd be a little angry and certainly let 'em know that (I'm not - but I do occasionally put on an HD game of theirs if it interests me otherwise, being a big baseball fan in general). Maybe some of you guys with smaller displays don't even notice, but with my 50" set, it's painfully obvious.

(Of course, I wouldn't expect them to upgrade anything that expensive if they're really trying to sell the team - especially after all that money they spent in the off-season that appears to have so far gone for naught.)

And - maybe a Cub fan out there could answer this for me - why, in heaven's name, do they still insist on "babying" that head case, Mark Prior? (Although they're stuck with him now).

UPDATE -

Gilbert, I think I'm going to be fine with this set-up. I just got done hooking it all up; scanned the channels, etc..

It found 30-some channels, most are 83+ signal strength, (the important one being WGN at 100!), and I used regular RG6 coax and the antenna I listed.

The real test will be tomorrow's Cubs game in HD.

Thanks again for the help. I think I'm all set!

No problem! I'm impressed, you must be up in elevation a bit away from the river. Are you locking WBBM-DT solidly?

Something I've noticed:

The Sox home games on WGN-DT look immaculate and sharp as a tack - the quintessential "looking out a window" experience -

But the Cubs home games are all full of artifacts, are are not nearly as sharp. In fact, they're not really all that much better looking than the Saturday, Fox 480p widescreen games - I'd say sort of in between.

Looks like typical Wrigley/Cubs cheap, skimpy miser-ism (at least up until the last free agency off-season - not that that helped them any ;)) was at work when they purchased and installed their high def cameras :rolleyes:.

If I were a Cub fan, I'd be a little angry and certainly let 'em know that (I'm not - but I do occasionally put on an HD game of theirs if it interests me otherwise, being a big baseball fan in general). Maybe some of you guys with smaller displays don't even notice, but with my 50" set, it's painfully obvious.

(Of course, I wouldn't expect them to upgrade anything that expensive if they're really trying to sell the team - especially after all that money they spent in the off-season that appears to have so far gone for naught.)

And - maybe a Cub fan out there could answer this for me - why, in heaven's name, do they still insist on "babying" that head case, Mark Prior? (Although they're stuck with him now).

First of all, I just get hooked up OTA for the Cubs game and the first thing I read is you telling me it's not that good!! ARGH!

Second, please dont get me started about Prior. 9 trips to the DL? He has had 2 good seasons, but those are easily forgotten when he's been injured as much as he has.

I can't wait to check out my first HD game tomorrow, I just hope it's good.

Something I've noticed:

The Sox home games on WGN-DT look immaculate and sharp as a tack - the quintessential "looking out a window" experience -

But the Cubs home games are all full of artifacts, are are not nearly as sharp. In fact, they're not really all that much better looking than the Saturday, Fox 480p widescreen games - I'd say sort of in between.

Looks like typical Wrigley/Cubs cheap, skimpy miser-ism (at least up until the last free agency off-season - not that that helped them any ;)) was at work when they purchased and installed their high def cameras :rolleyes:.

If I were a Cub fan, I'd be a little angry and certainly let 'em know that (I'm not - but I do occasionally put on an HD game of theirs if it interests me otherwise, being a big baseball fan in general). Maybe some of you guys with smaller displays don't even notice, but with my 50" set, it's painfully obvious.

(Of course, I wouldn't expect them to upgrade anything that expensive if they're really trying to sell the team - especially after all that money they spent in the off-season that appears to have so far gone for naught.)

And - maybe a Cub fan out there could answer this for me - why, in heaven's name, do they still insist on "babying" that head case, Mark Prior? (Although they're stuck with him now).

They (Cubs and Sox) use the same trucks for Comcast and OTA from Trio Video. It's either the receiving equipment at WGN or the transmission rate that gets sent to them. Tango and Phoenix also did the NFL games last season.
Take a tour!

http://www.triovideo.com/mobile.html

If it is like that on Comcast, than more than likely it is the distribution/microwave system they use at the park. It's been happening since I have had my DTV tuner.

I let WGN know about the artifacting and such two years ago. Their response is that the camera people are told to move as slow as possible to avoid that problem being seen. I'm not making this up.

As for Prior..well, if he wasn't hurt, he'd whoop everybody! :D

First of all, I just get hooked up OTA for the Cubs game and the first thing I read is you telling me it's not that good!! ARGH!

Second, please dont get me started about Prior. 9 trips to the DL? He has had 2 good seasons, but those are easily forgotten when he's been injured as much as he has.

I can't wait to check out my first HD game tomorrow, I just hope it's good.
Also, be advised that when the weather gets bad, your reception may be marginal...and fronts/weather systems coming through may knock it out. Keep that receipt handy, just in case.

No problem! I'm impressed, you must be up in elevation a bit away from the river. Are you locking WBBM-DT solidly?

Well I'm defnitely not down low by the river. The river is about a mile west of me, but I'm on a flat plane, pretty straight shot to downtown with nothing in the way.

Umm, I'm not seeing WBBM-DT. Is that the same thing as CBS2-H 2-1? Maybe I need to rename them, but that's what it's coming up as. Anyway, no, it's coming in at 68 signal strength. That's one of the few below 80's.

Well I'm defnitely not down low by the river. The river is about a mile west of me, but I'm on a flat plane, pretty straight shot to downtown with nothing in the way.

Umm, I'm not seeing WBBM-DT. Is that the same thing as CBS2-H 2-1? Maybe I need to rename them, but that's what it's coming up as. Anyway, no, it's coming in at 68 signal strength. That's one of the few below 80's.

Bingo. Yes, unless you go with the VU-190, you won't get WBBM-DT. And yep, that is CBS2-HD, 2-1.

Bingo. Yep, unless you go with the VU-190, you won't get WBBM-DT. Yep, that is CBS2-HD, 2-1.

Why did you ask about just that channel? Is it notorious for being hard to get or something?

I'm not too concerned about it, what I have should be good enough for me. Like I said, I'm doing this whole thing pretty much just for the Cub games in HD, and I dont think they are ever broadcast on that channel that I'm aware of.

Why did you ask about just that channel? Is it notorious for being hard to get or something?

I'm not too concerned about it, what I have should be good enough for me. Like I said, I'm doing this whole thing pretty much just for the Cub games in HD, and I dont think they are ever broadcast on that channel that I'm aware of.

You mentioned earlier that you has a dish (assuming Dish Network since DirecTV does have WGN-DT). Dish does carry WBBM-DT's HD signal so you can get it that way, assuming you have the correct dish to receive it.

You mentioned earlier that you has a dish (assuming Dish Network since DirecTV does have WGN-DT). Dish does carry WBBM-DT's HD signal so you can get it that way, assuming you have the correct dish to receive it.

Oh DirecTV does WGN games in HD? Geez, I made the worst decision going with Dish Network then!

Yeah, I get WBBM in HD thru the Dish. And that's probably my least watched major channel anyway. However I was thinking about cancelling my locals thru my satellite provider and saving $5/mo. But I'll have to wait and see how good this OTA stuff is before I do that.

Oh DirecTV does WGN games in HD? Geez, I made the worst decision going with Dish Network then!

Yeah, I get WBBM in HD thru the Dish. And that's probably my least watched major channel anyway. However I was thinking about cancelling my locals thru my satellite provider and saving $5/mo. But I'll have to wait and see how good this OTA stuff is before I do that.

Yep, DirecTV had WGN-DT and they also have Comcast Sportsnet Chicago's HD channel. Sorry :(

Well I went by the advice of my best friend. We're both really into the Cubs (have a partial season ticket package together) and he said: "get the Dish, the have the most HD channels. And I get my Cubs game in HD via the antenna". Ok so that's what I do. But now after more edumacation on this subject, I've learned I could have gotten Comcast and gotten all the CSN games in HD, plus with the antenna get the WGN games. Or, vice-versa with DirecTV. It seems we (he and I) cut our HD Cubs games in half (or so), from 2 channels to one. ARGH.

Why did you ask about just that channel? Is it notorious for being hard to get or something?

LOL! We had to retire the last two Chicago OTA threads, mainly because of WBBM and how to get them, or how to try to get them subthreads.

I'm not too concerned about it, what I have should be good enough for me. Like I said, I'm doing this whole thing pretty much just for the Cub games in HD, and I dont think they are ever broadcast on that channel that I'm aware of.[/QUOTE]
True, not on WBBM-DT. BTW, since you have Dish Network, if you get a good storm, it can knock out your dish reception. So, you may want to upgrade that antenna anyway to get WBBM-DT.

Why is WBBM so hard to get?

Wont storms effect OTA as well? Sorry for what might seem like dumb questions. This is all new to me since getting my new HDTV a few months ago. This thing has opened a Pandora's box like I never knew existed!

Well I went by the advice of my best friend. We're both really into the Cubs (have a partial season ticket package together) and he said: "get the Dish, the have the most HD channels. And I get my Cubs game in HD via the antenna". Ok so that's what I do. But now after more edumacation on this subject, I've learned I could have gotten Comcast and gotten all the CSN games in HD, plus with the antenna get the WGN games. Or, vice-versa with DirecTV. It seems we (he and I) cut our HD Cubs games in half (or so), from 2 channels to one. ARGH.

First...

If you get WBBM-DT, then you can shave $10 off your bill. $99 for the big VU-190 antenna, but then you get $10 off every month. Your setup is paid for in less than a year, and it won't go out when your dish does.

Second...

Dish is planning to add a lot of HD channels this year. Included on Comcast Sportsnet Chicago's web page is this blurb:

Why doesn't DISH Network carry your home games in HD?

"It is up to DISH Network, not Comcast SportsNet, to decide if they want to create a channel location for our HD telecasts. You may want to contact them to express your concerns."

But, they don't say when they will add it. But they do say this:

"DISH Network(TM) Launches Regional Sports Networks in High Definition
More Programming for HD and Sports Enthusiasts in More than Half of U.S. Markets
ENGLEWOOD, Colo.--(BUSINESS WIRE)--April 4, 2007--EchoStar Communications Corporation (NASDAQ: DISH) and its DISH Network(TM) satellite TV service announced today the launch of seven Regional Sports Networks (RSNs) in high definition (HD) that will strengthen DISH Network's position as the leader in HD programming. Now avid fans in these seven markets will have access to their home team's games in vivid HD and stunning surround sound.

"Sports fans have been driving the HD movement for quite some time now so naturally we're excited to offer regional coverage of games and sporting events in this amazing and graphic picture quality," said Eric Sahl, senior vice president of Programming for DISH Network. "Whether it's baseball, basketball, football, college or professional, there's no better way to watch all the action than in HD and DISH Network has a great sports lineup and the most national HD channels today."

The seven HD RSNs launched today include Fox Sports Network Florida (DISH Network Ch. 373), Fox Sports Network Midwest (Ch. 368), Fox Sports Network West (Ch. 367), Fox Sports Network Prime Ticket (Ch. 361), Fox Sports Network Rocky Mountain (Ch. 364), Fox Sports Network South (Ch. 370) and Fox Sports Network Southwest (Ch. 366).

DISH Network will continue to explore carriage of additional HD RSNs throughout the year to enhance local HD programming line-ups. In addition to the seven RSNs announced today, DISH Network will begin offering Sun Sports and SportSouth this spring as well as Altitude this fall."

So there you go. Grab the antenna...and hope for the best. BTW, trust me...WGN will look better off the antenna than off of Dish, period.

Why is WBBM so hard to get?

Wont storms effect OTA as well? Sorry for what might seem like dumb questions. This is all new to me since getting my new HDTV a few months ago. This thing has opened a Pandora's box like I never knew existed!

Head to the first posts on this thread. You'll see my essay on WBBM-DT. But it is, believe it or not, a *good* Pandora's box. This genie wants out! :D
Contact Dish and tell them you want CSN Chicago in HD. Hopefully, they'll get it up sooner, rather than after the season is over.

With a good antenna, only WBBM-DT will be affected, unless a nasty storm is overhead. Then, you shouldn't be watching TV!

Gilbert, don't forget that Dish dragged their feet a number of months adding CSN-C when it became available in the first place. If there are $'s involved to get it added Charlie won't be in any rush to add them.

Contact Dish and tell them you want CSN Chicago in HD. Hopefully, they'll get it up sooner, rather than after the season is over.
!

Funny you should say that, I already did contact them! Here is the response I got, pretty stock answer.


Dear Mr. XXXX,

Thank you for your e-mail. Specific information regarding your request for WGN HD and CSN HD is not currently available. We would like to add that channel, to make viewers like you happy, but we do not know if or when this will happen. We will gladly forward your request to our Programming Department for further consideration.

We thank you for your input as we continually review our options in order to provide a compelling lineup for our viewers. Please stay tuned for consumer Charlie Chats that are broadcast monthly on Channel 101 or logon to our website for future programming announcements.

Your business is greatly appreciated and we thank you for allowing us to be of assistance to you. If you have any further questions or concerns, please refer to www.dishnetwork.com or reply to this email.

Sincerely,

DISH Network ecare

Pine Brook

Funny you should say that, I already did contact them! Here is the response I got, pretty stock answer.


Dear Mr. XXXX,



Yeah, that's more canned than laughter on a sitcom.

Rad: I'm not denying that, either. I guess I should be more blunt and say that I'm guessing you won't have HD on Comcast the rest of this season. OTOH, Comcast charges a ton for their HD and digital packages. If you already signed the one-year contract, know that you'll also have the Cubs in HD on WCIU...and NOBODY except (I think) RCN (a cable company with a franchise in Chicago) carry it.

Some news for those of you who receive Milwaukee PBS....

http://milwaukee.bizjournals.com/milwaukee/stories/2007/04/23/daily9.html

Milwaukee Public Television is adding public television's 24-hour Spanish-language network to its digital lineup beginning May 5. The new, noncommercial service will be called MPTV V-me and air on digital channel 10.2, .... [snipped]

Yeah, that's more canned than laughter on a sitcom.

Rad: I'm not denying that, either. I guess I should be more blunt and say that I'm guessing you won't have HD on Comcast the rest of this season. OTOH, Comcast charges a ton for their HD and digital packages. If you already signed the one-year contract, know that you'll also have the Cubs in HD on WCIU...and NOBODY except (I think) RCN (a cable company with a franchise in Chicago) carry it.
You are correct on RCN.

mklawz - Going through the trouble of being able to get the OTA locals is well worth it. You will get the best quality HD signal available, and, like Gilbert said, you can knock off 5 bucks from your Dish package by not getting them through them - and you only get CBS, NBC, ABC and Fox from them in our market anyway. Plus, like he also said, OTA is much more reliable than satellite during storms. I've got Dish SD (along with OTA locals), and it goes out considerably more often than cable ever did.

Something I don't think was mentioned though, that you should be made aware of, is that if you don't subscribe to the locals from Dish, they will not give you the info for those channels in your guide. You can get the info from your local paper or TV guide, or on the net, from sites like www.zap2it.com or www.titantv.com. (Or if you have any kind of devices, like recorders or displays, that include the free, TV Guide on Screen feature.)

They (Cubs and Sox) use the same trucks for Comcast and OTA from Trio Video. It's either the receiving equipment at WGN or the transmission rate that gets sent to them. Tango and Phoenix also did the NFL games last season.

I let WGN know about the artifacting and such two years ago. Their response is that the camera people are told to move as slow as possible to avoid that problem being seen. I'm not making this up.

As for Prior..well, if he wasn't hurt, he'd whoop everybody! :DYeah, I noticed it looked pretty bad again today throughout the Cubs' game - anytime there was any movement during closeups, and when they went to and from replays, when they'd quickly flash that "WGN Sports" logo. It was horrible. They should at least stop showing that thing during the replays. It really doesn't show very much on the wide shots during movement, and those take up at least 90% of the broadcast.

I figured it's mainly the station, since "Smallville" - anytime it has any fast movements or explosions - shows the same thing. It's inexcusable in my opinion.

I could swear that "The Tube" was originally MUCH worse with artifacts in it's beginning days, and the main channel was better (the tube rarely shows any noticable artifacts anymore). I know that it was always evident to some degree before on 9-1, but something tells me they robbed Peter to pay Paul a bit there.

The funny thing was, though, that the SD broadcast on CSN+ (of the Cubs game) looked outstanding for SD - at least on my display. The Sox' home games usually look exceptional on there, too (in SD - I don't have CSN-HD).

(And, I won't even comment on what you said about Prior - the situation there speaks for itself ;).)

what's "artifacting"?

Today I was able to view my first game in HD. Pretty good I must say, I noticed some blurriness here and there when they moved the camera, like it took a brief moment to come into focus. Is that 'artifacting'? I dont know this stuff...

So do most people who have the OTA locals end up cancelling their locals from their provider? Or do poeple keep them for "back-up" or some kind? I feel I should hang on to them for a while.

Also, as Gilbert and I discussed the issue with WBBM not coming in with my antenna. I still dont know if it's worth spending another $50 on a better antenna. I really dont watch that much tube, I just want my ballgames now and then. I just can't come up with anything on that channel that I would watch. So I just dunno...

mklawz-

I agree with Gilbert by going to bigger antenna VU-190 and if you say it $50.00 more look at this way by dropping Local ch on Dish you will have that paid off in 10 months and you start saving $5.00 a month after that and also you will get a true HD picture quality for free. Gilbert is a well respected person on this fourm and he has helped hunderds if not in the thousand peoples in this fourm and around Chicagoland.

-Willie

Hi - I am looking for an "antenna guy" that could help me in Gurnee for my current 50 inch panny setup. In a 2 1/2 story house so was hoping to grab OTA for Chicago and Milwaukee to compliment by Comcast. Any recommendations appreciated.

I would like to share another option for those with DishHD. The sat that carries the Chicago HD's also has the following cities available CONUS: Kansas City, Denver, Nashville, Albuquerque, Minneapolis, Atlanta, Salt Lake City, and Los Angeles.
You could use a service address in one of those areas while keeping your existing billing address. The Chicago HD's can be picked up OTA with guide data.
The main negatives are that your guide data time will reflect the time zone of your service address and you'll have that cities regional sports channel. WBBM being difficult OTA hurts too.

Yeah, I noticed it looked pretty bad again today throughout the Cubs' game - anytime there was any movement during closeups, and when they went to and from replays, when they'd quickly flash that "WGN Sports" logo. It was horrible. They should at least stop showing that thing during the replays. It really doesn't show very much on the wide shots during movement, and those take up at least 90% of the broadcast.

I figured it's mainly the station, since "Smallville" - anytime it has any fast movements or explosions - shows the same thing. It's inexcusable in my opinion.

I could swear that "The Tube" was originally MUCH worse with artifacts in it's beginning days, and the main channel was better (the tube rarely shows any noticable artifacts anymore). I know that it was always evident to some degree before on 9-1, but something tells me they robbed Peter to pay Paul a bit there.

I don't know how The Tube was before, but compared to WMAQ (the only other 1080i channel with a sub), WGN's bitrate for their main channel is kinda low:

WGN:
http://img261.imageshack.us/img261/5954/wgnoj3.jpg

WMAQ:
http://img249.imageshack.us/img249/9514/wmaqwv5.jpg

O.K., now I get it! :confused:

what's "artifacting"?

Today I was able to view my first game in HD. Pretty good I must say, I noticed some blurriness here and there when they moved the camera, like it took a brief moment to come into focus. Is that 'artifacting'? I dont know this stuff...

So do most people who have the OTA locals end up cancelling their locals from their provider? Or do poeple keep them for "back-up" or some kind? I feel I should hang on to them for a while.

Also, as Gilbert and I discussed the issue with WBBM not coming in with my antenna. I still dont know if it's worth spending another $50 on a better antenna. I really dont watch that much tube, I just want my ballgames now and then. I just can't come up with anything on that channel that I would watch. So I just dunno...

First, "artifacting" is when the action on the screen is so different, frame by frame, that the video encorders at the Tv station or uplink equipment can't keep up. Thus, the video appears blurry, or "blocky". If you looked close, you'd actually see individual squares on the screen. Due to the way the video is processed, progressive scan high definition doesn't usually have this problem, though resolution suffers slightly as a result. Watch a NASCAR race on NBC and you'll see it there, too.

Sometimes, it is because they don't allocate enough bits or data to the channel. Although it appears that they have made improvements now, WCIU-DT 26-2's simulcast of "MeTV" was "interesting" to watch when they showed high school basketball games on weekends this past season. The macroblocking there was obvious (sorry, HVS, it was a good example---and normally, WCIU-DT gets it right every time). When "Create" first signed on 11-3...that was like watching a Real(tm) video at 128 kb resolution. It's a lot better now, but they had to reduce the quality a bit recently to accomodate V-Me on 11-4.

I have seen people have over-the-air as dish users for multiple reasons:

1) ALL channels sent in HD are seen in HD over your TV, whether Dish or Comcast has an agreement with them...or not. Furthermore, out here in DeKalb, they don't have WYCC-TV or WYCC-DT on our system at all. I get both via antenna. Also,
Comcast won't have Rockford HD stations due to bandwidth limitations on their system for a long time. I can get them all, and sometimes, WMAQ forgets to throw the HD switch, and I get Rockford's NBC...and they don't forget. No, nobody knows exactly why WMAQ forgets to flip the switch. Sometimes, it's not their fault: the network hasn't equipped WMAQ with a satellite feed to get some shows in HD, such as many of the NHL games they showed this season. Word is that equipment will be in very shortly.

2) Over-the-air quality trumps HD sent via satellite. Every time. MPEG-4 converter boxes that DirecTV and Dish uses are a lot better, but over-the-air is still best. Comcast gets very close, but people still notice a slight edge of the over-the-air signal.

3) If there are channel disputes with Dish or your cable company (and there are), storms knock out your dish/cable reception, or whatever else...you have the antenna as a backup.

4) Every now and then, satellite and cable has a problem with their fiber or over-the-air feeds (Dish and DirecTV get their HD and analog signals with an antenna; I know DirecTV's "head end" is near Oak Brook, and Dish, I believe, is above a bank on the west side of Chicago). All analog signals on cable are fiber; and all are from an antenna from Dish and DirecTV. All over-the-air digital signals are antenna from *everyone*, except Comcast and *maybe* Wide Open West has a fiber feed from WBBM-DT, due to their low signal power.

5) In the spring-fall, when weather fronts come through, you can frequently get out-of-town stations. Fun to see newscasts from South Bend or Milwaukee, or beyond.

6) You can get FM signals, and the new HD Radios work well with them.

7) When the lower power stations sign on in the next year or so, you can get some of them.

8) Once you pay for the antenna and get a digital tuner box, it's all FREE.

That's a quick handful of reasons. There are more, but that gets you started.
But seriously, just to make sure you don't lose reception in the rain or bad weather, I'd seriously get the larger antenna if I were you. Just a thought...

O.K., now I get it! :confused:

LOL! Well, what that says is that they are allocating 14.8 megabits/second for WGN-DT, 3.2 megabits/sec for "The Tube". The rest is overhead, data for your tuner box, etc.

For a 1080i stream, that is not high, I agree. For a 1080i feed, you want to have 16 MB at least to assure you a great picture, unless you have the latest encoders, which can fudge sufficiently to fool you. Maybe WGN has them now. Outside of Cubs broadcasts, I haven't seen any problems, so I bet they got new encoders. That would also explain why "The Tube" looks great now.

I don't know how The Tube was before, but compared to WMAQ (the only other 1080i channel with a sub), WGN's bitrate for their main channel is kinda low.Yeah, that would sure explain it alright. I did notice some pretty bad blocking on The Tube last night also, so I guess I just hadn't been watching it enough. It was during a badly recorded video, and I've been seeing more newer, really well recorded ones more recently whenever I've gone past it.

The Sox game on 26-1 last night showed a little blocking during those fast scene transitions, just like 9-1, but not so bad to the point it made it really unpleasant to watch overall - but it was still a bit annoying to me, because I'm just pretty sensitive to that stuff, I guess.

(Gilbert: Remember, mklawz doesn't need to get a separate OTA tuner if he's got a Dish HD tuner - unless they've removed the ATSC tuner from the newer models, which I don't believe they have. Haven't really kept track, though.)

Another reason I'm reluctant to get a bigger antenna is because my neighbor saw me installing this thing and told me of a 'situation' they had. The FAA (or someone related) showed up at their doorstep out of the blue and stated they were getting interference from their house. They discovered it was the antenna in the attic (which they didn't even know they had). Apparently we are right on the flight paths for DuPage County airport.

Anyone know anything of this? I dont want to cause any plane crashes just so I can get another channel!!! :)

Another reason I'm reluctant to get a bigger antenna is because my neighbor saw me installing this thing and told me of a 'situation' they had. The FAA (or someone related) showed up at their doorstep out of the blue and stated they were getting interference from their house. They discovered it was the antenna in the attic (which they didn't even know they had). Apparently we are right on the flight paths for DuPage County airport.

Anyone know anything of this? I dont want to cause any plane crashes just so I can get another channel!!! :)
Unless you are right at the end of the runway and have height issues I wouldn't see a problem. If they're getting interferrence due to OTA antenna's then they need to redesign their systems.

Another reason I'm reluctant to get a bigger antenna is because my neighbor saw me installing this thing and told me of a 'situation' they had. The FAA (or someone related) showed up at their doorstep out of the blue and stated they were getting interference from their house. They discovered it was the antenna in the attic (which they didn't even know they had). Apparently we are right on the flight paths for DuPage County airport.

Anyone know anything of this? I dont want to cause any plane crashes just so I can get another channel!!! :)

Don't worry about it. If it's in your attic, and it causes that type of interference...as HVS said, the problem is on THEIR end, not yours, and I very seriously question the people, if that was indeed the problem, who had a meeting to say "Hey! Let's install THIS system!". Seriously, don't worry about it, and get that thing up there. You'll be glad you did.

Ramm---yep, I know he has his own tuner on the Dish, I was just making a broader comment and it didn't come out quite right, I guess.

Another reason I'm reluctant to get a bigger antenna is because my neighbor saw me installing this thing and told me of a 'situation' they had. The FAA (or someone related) showed up at their doorstep out of the blue and stated they were getting interference from their house. They discovered it was the antenna in the attic (which they didn't even know they had). Apparently we are right on the flight paths for DuPage County airport.

Anyone know anything of this? I dont want to cause any plane crashes just so I can get another channel!!! :)


Your neighbor may be right, but when did the FAA or ( Jones Intercable ? ) told your neighbor that back in the 80's or 90's ? Your neighbor may have a Cable TV signal leak to TV antenna and cause the FAA person to knock on his door.

Cable TV signals can cause havocs for the big plane’s navigation equipments, not the OTA antenna but Cable TV signals can because certain frequency on the Cable is near the frequency for the navigations equipment for the landing. Back in the 80’s when cable TV was coming out in the southern Wis and in Northern IL people was stealing the cable service and was splicing the cable TV coax into the coax that was feed from the antenna to the TV set. So with the cable TV signals spliced into OTA coax then it feeding the antenna also and that was transmitting over the OTA Antenna and causing problem for the plane’s navigations equipment. There is a navigation transmitter shack in northwest of Elkhorn for the O’Hare landing pattern.

Maybe Gilbert, Rammitinski, hvs10trk and greywolf would remember the days when the FAA, FCC and the Cable co was driving around in the neighborhood with a funny looking handheld antenna and pointing at the house, and see them knocking on the doors and enter the house and then came back out with the illegal cable box and coax cable with the bad spliced. Sorry guys you may be too young those good old days :rolleyes: or did this bring back the younger days :eek: :D . Back in the mid 80's there too was allot of upgrades of splitters and coax cable they were using unshielded splitters and RG-59 coax that another reason the cable TV went to RG-59 Tri-shield coax cable, but now most go to RG-6 Quad shield coax cable for better shielding of leak from the Cable TV signals.

-Willie

Don't worry about it. If it's in your attic, and it causes that type of interference...as HVS said, the problem is on THEIR end, not yours, and I very seriously question the people, if that was indeed the problem, who had a meeting to say "Hey! Let's install THIS system!". Seriously, don't worry about it, and get that thing up there. You'll be glad you did.

Ramm---yep, I know he has his own tuner on the Dish, I was just making a broader comment and it didn't come out quite right, I guess.
Don't blow them off too quickly. More than once we have tracked interference to a rogue preamplifier that goes into oscillation and transmits a bogey on a an undesired frequency (and actually transmits outwards using its antenna).

When the undesired frequency falls on our OTA frequency it causes interference to viewers, which is bad for us. When the undesired frequency falls on a FAA channel for pilots or navigation, the spectrum police hunt you down.

These kinds of unintended transmissions also happen due to "egress" from cable systems, and the FCC requires stringent monitoring to ensure signals inside cable systems don't leak out and interfere with licensed users of the spectrum.

I even had a neighbor with a dilapidated antenna which put out random burps which interfered with reception of local OTA ch. 69 and Chicago ch. 9 and hunting that down was a nightmare.

It happened coincident with 9/11 and I first diagnosed as stealth radar. But one day they took down their tower and poof the problems disappeared.

Don't blow them off too quickly. More than once we have tracked interference to a rogue preamplifier that goes into oscillation and transmits a bogey on a an undesired frequency (and actually transmits outwards using its antenna).

When the undesired frequency falls on our OTA frequency it causes interference to viewers, which is bad for us. When the undesired frequency falls on a FAA channel for pilots or navigation, the spectrum police hunt you down.

These kinds of unintended transmissions also happen due to "egress" from cable systems, and the FCC requires stringent monitoring to ensure signals inside cable systems don't leak out and interfere with licensed users of the spectrum.

I even had a neighbor with a dilapidated antenna which put out random burps which interfered with reception of local OTA ch. 69 and Chicago ch. 9 and hunting that down was a nightmare.

It happened coincident with 9/11 and I first diagnosed as stealth radar. But one day they took down their tower and poof the problems disappeared.

Was that because of a bad preamp? I think it was Winegard that had a recalled stinkeroo back in the 90s, and wrought havoc on the ham bands. That, thankfully, has long been corrected. George is correct...but...if you use RG-6 cable, an attic antenna, or a rooftop in at least decent condition, a Winegard or ChannelMaster off-the-shelf preamp, you should be good to go these days.

Another reason I'm reluctant to get a bigger antenna is because my neighbor saw me installing this thing....What - does he have x-ray vision or something? :)

What - does he have x-ray vision or something? :)

No. I popped the cable out from the upper level soffit, run it down along the back of my house, (tucked in behind the corner siding), and then popped it back in near the foundation. So I had a big extension ladder out. And with the way our backyards are over here, you get noooo privacy. At least not until my trees and shrubs get going.

No. I popped the cable out from the upper level soffit, run it down along the back of my house, (tucked in behind the corner siding), and then popped it back in near the foundation. So I had a big extension ladder out. And with the way our backyards are over here, you get noooo privacy. At least not until my trees and shrubs get going.

Well, he shouldn't care if it runs to the attic. It's up to you...but I'm just trying to get you to do it right, so that, when weather fronts roll through, WGN doesn't go phffft on you during a game.

P.S. If he says anything, show him the picture on your HDTV and tell him that's from an antenna. :)

Yeah, really. Tell him to mind his own, damned business. You're not breakin' any rules.

FCC rules (laws) state that no HOA can prevent you from putting up an antenna, even ouside on the roof. If he gives you a problem, just hand him (and/or the HOA) a copy of them. And he especially has no business at all giving a rat's a$$ about you putting one in your attic.

Chill boys. I never said he was being nosey. *She* just asked what I was doing and then she proceeded to tell me about that situation with the FAA or whoever. I was just stating that we have no privacy because you joked about the x-ray vision.

Now the old man across from us in the front yard. Now he's another story. He yelled at my FIL the day we moved in because he parked in front of his house. Same old man told my next door neighbor to not have any more garage sales because it brings in the riff-raff. Now this guy needs to be put in his place!

Maybe Gilbert, Rammitinski, hvs10trk and greywolf would remember the days when the FAA, FCC and the Cable co was driving around in the neighborhood with a funny looking handheld antenna and pointing at the house, and see them knocking on the doors and enter the house and then came back out with the illegal cable box and coax cable with the bad spliced. Sorry guys you may be too young those good old days :rolleyes: or did this bring back the younger days :eek: :D . Back in the mid 80's there too was allot of upgrades of splitters and coax cable they were using unshielded splitters and RG-59 coax that another reason the cable TV went to RG-59 Tri-shield coax cable, but now most go to RG-6 Quad shield coax cable for better shielding of leak from the Cable TV signals.

-Willie
Used to work in cable. They were using small airplanes for a while too.

Used to work in cable. They were using small airplanes for a while too.


That right they did do that too up here, the plane find the hot area then the ground people pinpoint the source of the leak.

Some pirates would use taps instead of splitters by mistake and enjoy the programming while pretty much destroying the paying customer's signal. I had a friend who would get premium channels by putting a paper clip through a vent hole in his cable box. Those were interesting times.

what's "artifacting"?

Today I was able to view my first game in HD. Pretty good I must say, I noticed some blurriness here and there when they moved the camera, like it took a brief moment to come into focus. Is that 'artifacting'? I dont know this stuff...

So do most people who have the OTA locals end up cancelling their locals from their provider? Or do poeple keep them for "back-up" or some kind? I feel I should hang on to them for a while.

Also, as Gilbert and I discussed the issue with WBBM not coming in with my antenna. I still dont know if it's worth spending another $50 on a better antenna. I really dont watch that much tube, I just want my ballgames now and then. I just can't come up with anything on that channel that I would watch. So I just dunno...

What kind of TV? If it's an LCD or plasma, depending on the processing internal to the unit, you'll see things like that.

What kind of TV? If it's an LCD or plasma, depending on the processing internal to the unit, you'll see things like that.Naw, it was definitely a "semi-macroblocking blurring" in the signal. I see it clearly all the time on my display, during every Cub home game on WGN-DT. I use to even see it on my 32" analog CRT.

WGN has had this problem since they first installed HD equipment about 5 years ago. I had a 38" CRT HDTV then, and Smallville really looked bad in HD with these motion artifacts. We had to wait until HDNet started showing Smallville to see it displayed properly.

If everyone wants to know FYI
WFLD FOX News has no plans for News in HD

I was at the power substation that blow up on Harlem and higgins today and i asked the News truck driver
and said its expensive to produce the news in HD

Anyone else have their site crash your Internet Explorer? Their web guys claim they know of a problem between their site and IE7. From the email I received from them it doesn't sound like their trying to fix it. They're just waiting for Microsoft to "magicly" solve the problem. If they don't fix it soon, they'll have less people navigating to their site.

If everyone wants to know FYI
WFLD FOX News has no plans for News in HD

I was at the power substation that blow up on Harlem and higgins today and i asked the News truck driver
and said its expensive to produce the news in HD
I do agree that it's expensive. It's come down it price quite a bit in the past years. We're thinking about converting over a control room and a studio. The video switcher is the biggest kick in the pants. :eek:

WGN has had this problem since they first installed HD equipment about 5 years ago. I had a 38" CRT HDTV then, and Smallville really looked bad in HD with these motion artifacts. We had to wait until HDNet started showing Smallville to see it displayed properly.
Saw it during the Sox game last night. :eek:

We're converting over a control room and studio. The video switcher is the biggest kick in the pants. :eek:

Which Tv Station ?

Maybe Gilbert, Rammitinski, hvs10trk and greywolf would remember the days when the FAA, FCC and the Cable co was driving around in the neighborhood with a funny looking handheld antenna and pointing at the house, and see them knocking on the doors and enter the house and then came back out with the illegal cable box and coax cable with the bad spliced. Sorry guys you may be too young those good old days :rolleyes: or did this bring back the younger days :eek: :D .
-Willie

The old days are still around...a couple a three weeks ago the Charter cable van was slowly cruising up the street in my neighborhood and stopped just past my house and I saw the tech waltz out with a pistol grip looking thing and then proceed to spread the antenna's to either side of it so it looked like a T and point it across the street and then to my neighbors house and then he walked toward the back of their house so I went to the back and saw him fiddling for a few minutes right where the coax enters the house. When he left I walked over to see what he had done and he replaced both ends of coax with new connectors and switched out the grounding balun. So they still hunt for cable pirates the old fashion way although my neighbor is a paying customer that just happened to have leaky connectors....

Saw it during the Sox game last night. :eek:Me too. It was pretty bad at times, but still just a tad less so than the Cub games, it seemed.

Anyway, I switched the output of my Sony tuner to 720p, and even though it was still there during the most susceptable times, it got MUCH, MUCH better. To the point where it wasn't so annoying anymore.

Whenever I turn the tuner on, it always defaults back to HDMI out, which is native. But if I notice any blocking, and the station is 1080i, it gets a lot better after I switch to 720p.

I realize that some of you don't have that option, but if you do, and you haven't tried it, see if that helps any.

Being in progressive mode is probably one of the reasons why the games look better on WCIU-DT.

And hvs10trk - kudos to the WWME program director or whoever's decision it was to add the shows you have recently - I about fell out of my chair when I noticed they were showing "Night Gallery" last night! That's one of my old favorites. Those old, "Peter Gunn" episodes are great, too! :)

The old days are still around...a couple a three weeks ago the Charter cable van was slowly cruising up the street in my neighborhood and stopped just past my house and I saw the tech waltz out with a pistol grip looking thing and then proceed to spread the antenna's to either side of it so it looked like a T and point it across the street and then to my neighbors house and then he walked toward the back of their house so I went to the back and saw him fiddling for a few minutes right where the coax enters the house. When he left I walked over to see what he had done and he replaced both ends of coax with new connectors and switched out the grounding balun. So they still hunt for cable pirates the old fashion way although my neighbor is a paying customer that just happened to have leaky connectors....


Oh yea you will see them around now and then. Your neighbor just might had a older style connectors that was not good but at the time they were the best one out on the market now they are using or have been for couple years are T&B snap n seal connectors which is way better then the old Raycom connectors they come loose after years of being outdoors. Just about are you are is where all the big jetliner start their landing pattern on one of the runway to O'hare and just south of you actullay just south of Walworth is the flight landing for Rockford airport.

Did you ever get Rockford WQRF 39 DT when they boosted the power ? Is WMTV 15 still beats out WGN for siginal?

-Willie

If anyone noticed the commericals on WLS
190North is going to be in HD starting this sunday

Credit where credit is due. The NHL playoffs on WMAQ-DT were in HD/DD 5.1. After their recent troubles, this was welcome to see. Thanks, guys!

Just curious if anyone else saw problems with Fox MLB coverage the last two weekends. Specifically, I noticed some horizontal problems near the top of the screen (basically starting at the ticker and above). It seemed to be a problem with the centerfield camera. Every time they cut to the view over the pitcher's shoulder the screen would flicker and move near the top and my tuner would drop the picture.

Just wondering if anyone else saw this or if maybe I'm noticing a problem/limitation of my tuner. Thanks.

Credit where credit is due. The NHL playoffs on WMAQ-DT were in HD/DD 5.1. After their recent troubles, this was welcome to see. Thanks, guys!

Agreed. I was getting so frustrated I actually wrote Robert Feder at the Suntimes to get him to try and apply some pressure. Ha. He said he was looking into it but I never heard back.

Has anyone noticed how quickly many sports telecasts cut the 5.1 audio back to 2.0 at the end of an event - often when the announcers doing their wrapup are in mid-sentence? You would think they are paying by the second for the 5.1 source.

Has anyone noticed how quickly many sports telecasts cut the 5.1 audio back to 2.0 at the end of an event - often when the announcers doing their wrapup are in mid-sentence? You would think they are paying by the second for the 5.1 source.
I always thought it was annoying when the pregame is done in 2.0 but thats cause it's pre-recorded.

I heard
Chicago broadcasters are now being upgraded to the sprint 2ghz
http://www.2ghzrelocation.com/plugin/template/broadcast1/Plan%20and%20Schedule/?region=Midwest&dma=441#jump

I was told by WBBM that they will start this spring... i dont know the status of that right now..

WGN had a very bad day at Wrigley yesterday. The audio kept disappearing from the HD feed, so they kept switching back and forth from HD to SD. The first 30 minutes was SD. After that, the HD would last until the next audio loss. They must have switched back and forth at least 10 times. At least the Cubs had a good day.

I heard
Chicago broadcasters are now being upgraded to the sprint 2ghz
http://www.2ghzrelocation.com/plugin/template/broadcast1/Plan%20and%20Schedule/?region=Midwest&dma=441#jump

I was told by WBBM that they will start this spring... i dont know the status of that right now..
What is this about?

I get my feed for WYIN through Comcast. For the past 2 weeks or so, it has been a bit weird. For awhile, the analog feed was noisy and rolling, and the ADS to the cable box was wiggling. For the past few days, the audio seems to be behind the video, on both analog and ADS.

I don't know how Comcast gets their signal, but has anyone noticed an issue with the broadcast versions, analog and/or digital? I'm too far away to pick it up directly.

What is this about?
Sprint/Nextel bought the lower 2ghz freq band for use with their new cell phone service. Most ENG trucks operated on this band across the country. So all stations are being converted to CoFDM (Digital) microwave for their trucks/helo's.

Hockey game today in NBC is in SD :-(

Trying to get through to Engineering but can't reach anyone!

Hockey game today in NBC is in SD :-(

Trying to get through to Engineering but can't reach anyone!

While you're at it, tell them that their baseball game is having problems again. As I posted above, the top part of the screen (by the score ticker) is waving all over the place on the centerfield camera. Causes my TV to freak out every time they cut to the over the shoulder view of the pitcher (which is all the time).

Edit: Nevermind. I just realized that I was talking Fox and you were talking about NBC. Still makes me mad that Fox baseball coverage is having problems. NASCAR yesterday was fine.

What is this about?

http://www.2ghzrelocation.com/plugin/template/broadcast1/About%20Relocation/*

Hi. Maybe one of you can help me. Currently I have an antenna inside my attic, and I receive all HD channels with great clarity except for ABC (Ch. 7) and WGN (Ch. 9). I don't have cable, so this is straight OTA. With ABC, my signal strength is about 20-50%, and occassionaly it jumps up to 70% for a fraction of a second and I get a little piece of sound and part of a picture, then nothing for a whole minute and another piece of sound and part of a picture here and there. Every single other channel (WBBM-DT included) doesn't have a signal strength less than 85%, so I have excellent reception on the others. Antenna web says I am 34 miles from the stations, so I am confused why all the others work so well, but WGN and ABC I get horrible reception. Most times I get nothing. Any ideas of what I could be?

Hi. Maybe one of you can help me. Currently I have an antenna inside my attic, and I receive all HD channels with great clarity except for ABC (Ch. 7) and WGN (Ch. 9). I don't have cable, so this is straight OTA. With ABC, my signal strength is about 20-50%, and occassionaly it jumps up to 70% for a fraction of a second and I get a little piece of sound and part of a picture, then nothing for a whole minute and another piece of sound and part of a picture here and there. Every single other channel (WBBM-DT included) doesn't have a signal strength less than 85%, so I have excellent reception on the others. Antenna web says I am 34 miles from the stations, so I am confused why all the others work so well, but WGN and ABC I get horrible reception. Most times I get nothing. Any ideas of what I could be?


Welcome to the fourm. Going to need some more infomation from you what is your zip code or copy and paste your antennaweb results and tell alittle more about your antenna setup as what kind of antenna you have, Do you have pre-amp and if yes what kind, how long of Coax cable you have and it is RG-59 or RG-6, how many other tv are you feeding it to, your house single or muti story, tell us alittle about the surrounding as in tall trees, building, near high transtmission wire, house on a hill or down in a valley. With all those info would help us to have a better idea what you are up to.

-Willie

Gilbert would be the best person to give you info but he may be busy chaseing those tornado out southwest of us. I hope he don't chase them into our area :D

Thank you for the quick response. Attached you will find my antenna web screen shot and details about what digital channels I should be able to receive.

To give you a little about my area - zip code 60184, I do live in a wooded area. No high structures, live away from the largest city. My antenna is in my attic, which is the third floor of the house, and the house is built on the highest piece of ground on the property. From the third floor, I have a clear view in all directions. About 40 feet away from the house starts the tree lines, and the branches are small, but lots of leaves. I don't know the type of antenna, but it looks very similar to the attached image (only the antenna is indoor) The antenna is oriented 101 degrees, which lines up with what antenna web says it should be. I have 4 TV's in the house, and there is approximately 100ft of coax cable that runs from the attic, through the house to the individual TV jacks. Hopefully this will help. I am not sure about any pre-amps.

Thank you for the quick response. Attached you will find my antenna web screen shot and details about what digital channels I should be able to receive.

To give you a little about my area - zip code 60184, I do live in a wooded area. No high structures, live away from the largest city. My antenna is in my attic, which is the third floor of the house, and the house is built on the highest piece of ground on the property. From the third floor, I have a clear view in all directions. About 40 feet away from the house starts the tree lines, and the branches are small, but lots of leaves. I don't know the type of antenna, but it looks very similar to the attached image (only the antenna is indoor) The antenna is oriented 101 degrees, which lines up with what antenna web says it should be. I have 4 TV's in the house, and there is approximately 100ft of coax cable that runs from the attic, through the house to the individual TV jacks. Hopefully this will help. I am not sure about any pre-amps.

Hello Zippy,

Welcome to the board! Sorry Willie, wish I was out there, but I can't go on vacation until mid-May. :( Anyway, back on topic...

You need to determine two things. First, what type of cable is it? On the wire itself, there should be, at various stretches along it, wording that tells you what type of cable it is. Look for RG-59 or RG-6. It will be one or the other. If your setup was built in the last 10 years, it will be RG-6.

Second, being three floors up on the highest point of the property is a good thing.
But, the lack of reception on WLS indicates that your upper channels may have low reception. This can be due to long cable runs, or RG-59 cable. With 100' of total cable, with an attic antenna at that distance, you should have an amplifier or preferably a preamplifier on it. Let me ask you this: I will guess that somewhere in the basement, there is a place where the cable is split into 4 runs that take it to the various points in the house. Is that split powered (is it plugged in)? And if so, what is the "gain" on it (that info should be written on the box)? One good way to tell if you have signal loss due to the splitter is to look at analog channels 50, 60 and 66. If they get progressively snowier as you go higher, your splitter is losing you signal you can't afford to lose.

If you don't have an amplifier or preamplifier on it (a preamplifier has two parts, one that goes as close to the antenna as possible, the other as close to the split or TV as possible), you'll need one. At that distance, indoors, with 4 runs coming off the antenna, you'll definitely need one. But first, let's see what you have. If in doubt, take a picture of the splitter, wherever it may be, unless you are sure it is/isn't powered.

Here is what I found:

Analog channels 50, is the least snowy, 60 is more snowy than 50 (by a lot) and 66 is slightly worst than 60.

Unfortunately, the cable that was run is RG-59. It was laid in Jan. of 94.

I also have an AP-8275 82 channel antenna pre-amplifier that is connected directly to the cable that comes from the antenna. That then plugs into a power supply. The powersupply is Wineguard PS-9000 (117VAC 60hz 6 Watts Max secondary 19 VAC) What I just typed in parenthesis I have no idea what that means.

This is what gets goofy. Out of the power supply, there is a 4 way splitter. Then from each of the four cables that comes out of the 4-way splitter, there is another splitter at the end - one is a 2 way, one is a 3 way, and two are 4 ways. I assume that each of those go to different TV jacks in the house. I don't have 13 jacks in the house, I have a total of 6 and only 4 have TV's on them. So that is my setup. Does that give you any ideas what I could do to fix it?

Here is what I found:

Analog channels 50, is the least snowy, 60 is more snowy than 50 (by a lot) and 66 is slightly worst than 60.

Unfortunately, the cable that was run is RG-59. It was laid in Jan. of 94.

I also have an AP-8275 82 channel antenna pre-amplifier that is connected directly to the cable that comes from the antenna. That then plugs into a power supply. The powersupply is Wineguard PS-9000 (117VAC 60hz 6 Watts Max secondary 19 VAC) What I just typed in parenthesis I have no idea what that means.

This is what gets goofy. Out of the power supply, there is a 4 way splitter. Then from each of the four cables that comes out of the 4-way splitter, there is another splitter at the end - one is a 2 way, one is a 3 way, and two are 4 ways. I assume that each of those go to different TV jacks in the house. I don't have 13 jacks in the house, I have a total of 6 and only 4 have TV's on them. So that is my setup. Does that give you any ideas what I could do to fix it?

W-O-W. This is very interesting!!! OK, this tells me much.

First, as mentioned above, RG-59 cable is very lossy. As I suspected, and you just proved, you are losing lots of signal from that cable. And it is why you are having poor picture quality, to some extent, on the upper channels. So whoever put that cable in didn't do you any favors. But...

The good news is that the person who put this in also put in one of the top two (IMO) consumer-level preamplifiers you can buy. Whoever did this knew he needed a top-flight signal booster to handle all of the outlets.

We'll go the "easy" route first, and then the harder route. It sounds like to me this person wanted to expand on his house, or maybe put in for FM or satellite TV outlets (but that needs RG-6 quad shielded or better cable, anyway). Because this person is splitting the signal 13 ways, you are losing at a minimum, an incredible 39 dB of signal; the amplifier boosts the signal only ~28 dB. This is before assuming 1 dB signal loss at each connector, and 3 dB loss on UHF with RG-59 cable (on your longest run, it's probably 9 dB or more). In other words, in english, you're fortunate you are getting anything! Whatever the case may be on why it was set up this way, here are your next steps to get you up and running on all your channels.

1. Have someone with you to help you out with this step, if possible. Turn on all 6 TV's, tune to analog channel 5 or any digital channel. Disconnect the wires from the splitter (doing so with the cable furthest in the "chain", such as the one after the multiple splits), one at a time, and find out which TV's go out. If none do, label the cable with a "?". For the ones that do go out, label the cable with the room it goes to. Do this until you know which 6 active cables go to what room.

2. With all your cables labeled, disconnect all of them. Now, with the first four-way splitter that comes directly from the powered portion of the preamplifier, plug in 3 of the most used TV's in your house. Then, on the fourth connector on the splitter, use one of the "jumper" cables and attach a 3-way splitter you have up there. Connect the remaining 3 rooms to this splitter. These will have weaker signals, but we'll see if it is "good enough". Here's how it should look, dashed lines represent your RG-59 cable (gotta love ASCII art! :D ):

Antenna---unpowered part of preamp----Powered amp-----4 way splitter (with 3 going to most used TV's, and the fourth going to the 3-way splitter------3 lesser used TV's.

Check to see what reception you get now. If it is not good enough...

3. If possible, replace the cable from the unpowered part of the preamplifier on the antenna to the powered part with RG-6 cable. Quad shielded RG-6 is preferred. However, out in Wayne, since you have no strong broadcast signals out by you (AM/FM/TV), and I'll assume you are not next to a cell phone tower and are not getting any interference on WBBM-DT 2.1 (you say you are getting it, quite a feat out there), I'll recommend standard RG-6 cable for your install. Also, if the preamplifier wasn't built into the base of the antenna, the "jumper" cable you should see between the antenna and the unpowered portion of the preamp on or near the antenna should be replaced by RG-6 cable as well.

Check to see what reception you get now. If it is not good enough...

4. Replace, if possible, all RG-59 cables longer than 15' to the rooms. This may be impossible if they are built into the wall and stapled in. If that is the case, see if you can somehow run new cable from the attic into those rooms, down the wall interior to the same outlet. If, somehow, this can be done easily for at least one room, then do it regardless of reception.

I know this is considerable work. But this should do it. Try to do at least steps #1-#3, and definitely #1-#2. Pre-measured length RG-6 cable with connectors on them are available at Radio Shack, Menards, and Home Depot (possibly Lowe's as well).
Raw 100' and 500' lengths, if you have the splice tools, are also available there.

Thanks for the suggestions. I did steps #1 and #2, and it made the quality of ABC/WGN a lot better! It still goes in and out, but instead of a part of a second fading out, the channels play for about 15 seconds then stop for 2 or 3, then play for another 15 seconds! That is a huge improvement from before. I assume that the extra breakup is because of the RG-59 cable instead of RG-6?

Thanks for the suggestions. I did steps #1 and #2, and it made the quality of ABC/WGN a lot better! It still goes in and out, but instead of a part of a second fading out, the channels play for about 15 seconds then stop for 2 or 3, then play for another 15 seconds! That is a huge improvement from before. I assume that the extra breakup is because of the RG-59 cable instead of RG-6?

Quite possibly. If you did the exact steps above, on one of the three TV's that were "highest priority" in the first 4-way split, tune analog (if you can) to 50, 60 and 66. It should be better...but, if reception quality still goes down markedly after channel 50, then you likely have too much signal loss from the RG-59 cable. Try replacing the antenna cable first, and then the cables to your rooms.

If that doesn't cure it, one more suggestion would be to tweak the antenna pointing in the attic, to see if that helps. Make sure it is as close to the outside east wall if at all possible. But since you are seeing an improvement, it sounds like a close to slam-dunk case for replacing the cables, if nothing else.

I once did an install that, by request, I had to deal with an existing antenna and RG-59 cable from the attic to the TV. I put a huge signal preamplifier on it to compensate. It helped, but upper channels were still snowy and WBBM analog and digital were horrid. Then, I came back later and we replaced the RG-59 jumper from the antenna to the unpowered part of the preamp, and then we replaced the part between both preamp parts. MAJOR improvement. Finally, I replaced the short "jumper" cables between the TV and the VCR and DVD players. I got some improvement on some channels, most notably, WBBM. Analog WBBM looked good, digital still wouldn't lock (just below threshold), but that's because his antenna isn't all that great, and I had to use what he had. Still, a preamp does not overcome ALL signal loss between the two pieces if the coax is of fair quality, as yours is.

BTW, in regards to antenna pointing, make absolute certain it is pointing at roughly 100 degrees towards Sears Tower. What you might want to try, even before swapping out the cables, is turning your antenna so that it faces maybe at 110 degrees or so...ie, *slightly* to the "right" or south of Sears if you are looking east. Some antennas have their best focus 10 degrees left of center. Worth a shot for a slight adjustment.

P.S. Even if the antenna adjustment works for you, replace the RG-59 cable if you can. That's because your reception is likely going to be "marginal", and you want a nice strong signal for "pad" when the weather heads south. Today it's breezy, but not bad. On windy, rainy days or when fronts will come through, your signals may get knocked out.

Thanks so much for the suggestions. Next weekend I am going to redo some of the wiring and see if it improves. Today the signal was at about 70% all day, with very little breakup at all, so it is a huge improvement! One question though - does the fact that I have a wireless network in my house affect the reception at all?

One question though - does the fact that I have a wireless network in my house affect the reception at all?

It shouldn't --- but you could always unplug it for an hour or two to see!

Thanks so much for the suggestions. Next weekend I am going to redo some of the wiring and see if it improves.

the other thing to try is to take all of the splitters out, sacrifice the other tv's temporarily and hook the HD directly to the amp?

The Cub game is looking great (and sounding great in 5.1 as well) in HD on WCIU 26-1 tonight. It doesn't get much better than this! I wish all the HD I watch looked this good. A very slight distraction is a 2-inch horizontal line of white dots at the lower left.

The Cub game is looking great (and sounding great in 5.1 as well) in HD on WCIU 26-1 tonight. It doesn't get much better than this! I wish all the HD I watch looked this good. A very slight distraction is a 2-inch horizontal line of white dots at the lower left. Yeah, that line of "white dots" had me really freaking out. I thought a line of pixels were out on my new 1140 :eek:. I let out a huge sigh of relief when I changed the channel and it wasn't there anymore :).

I agree with you that the game looked great. WCIU-DT really puts WGN-DT to shame on those. If they can do that with 2 subchannels, then why in the heck can't WGN with one :rolleyes: :(?

let me echo previous comments regarding the pq that the u! can create using 720p fo their baseball broadcasts. so very nice indeed.

a second interesting note, i am one who likes to listen to the radio broadcast and watch. in the past the radio was still ahead of OTA, but the last couple of games the radio has axly been behind. I read somewhere that the profanity delay they are now using is causing this, but I have to also believe that enough other fans out there do the same and wgn is more than happy to get/keep listeners by being "required" to have a 3-4 second profanity delay.

just a theory.

Yeah, that line of "white dots" had me really freaking out. I thought a line of pixels were out on my new 1140 :eek:. I let out a huge sigh of relief when I changed the channel and it wasn't there anymore :).

I agree with you that the game looked great. WCIU-DT really puts WGN-DT to shame on those. If they can do that with 2 subchannels, then why in the heck can't WGN with one :rolleyes: :(?
WGN is 1080i and we're 720p.

let me echo previous comments regarding the pq that the u! can create using 720p fo their baseball broadcasts. so very nice indeed.

a second interesting note, i am one who likes to listen to the radio broadcast and watch. in the past the radio was still ahead of OTA, but the last couple of games the radio has axly been behind. I read somewhere that the profanity delay they are now using is causing this, but I have to also believe that enough other fans out there do the same and wgn is more than happy to get/keep listeners by being "required" to have a 3-4 second profanity delay.

just a theory.
Thanx guys for the Great Feedback!!! :D We're still wondering about the white dots. :o Gotta love the digital era.

I'm pretty disgusted with pro sports in this town lately. As a Sox fan, my patience has just about run out with this team. If you have the ability to be good, you should be able to play that way for pretty much every game. This "few games in a row good" and "few games in a row lousy" inconsistent play is inexcusable. It's not even whether they win or lose - if they can win well, they can lose well, too. Jenks is the poorest excuse for a "closer" that I've ever seen - at least one that's supposed to be good enough to help you win a division. His save totals with the team are the most "padded" I've ever seen by a relief pitcher. And Dye is just as deceiving, too. For every timely hit he gets, he makes 5 times as many blunders - at the plate AND in the field. He looks like his head's in a fog half the time. He's been that way ever since he's been with the team - and last year's "almost MVP" year was no exception. Since they probably won't re-sign him anyways, I wish they could just trade him now for something that they can actually use. Then there's Konerko and Uribe - probably no one in MLB blows as hot and cold as those two guys have always done. They need some guys in that lineup that AREN'T always trying to uppercut or yank every damned pitch out of the park. There isn't one consistent hitter in that whole lineup, except maybe Erstad, when he's healthy - and if the other guys don't present much of a threat, they'll just pitch around him. Heck, they traded away one of their best hitters for practically nothing - Ross Gload. And just looking at Aaron Rowand's average so far with the Phillies this year - it almost makes me want to cry everytime I see it in the box scores, while Thome just keeps hitting home runs with nobody on base and they keep losing.

And Kenny Williams is supposed to be some kind of frickin' genius? :rolleyes:

didn't mean to touch a nerve, but happy you could get baseball rage off your chest, i still haven't found an effective way to do it. perhaps i should sit down and write a letter. :D

on a related AM radio note, the vacuum tube powered radio my grandfather listened to cardinals games on works just fine across the room from my equipment, once it warms up. :)

Hey Gilbert,

If you still have your contact for WGBO-DT 66-1, you may want to pass along to them that they are just broadcasting a blank screen. Well, at least it's been blank on my Zenith stb for about a week now. Signal is there, but no video or audio.

Anyone notice some great tropo reception tonight? NBC-16 DT from South Bend is coming at full strength right now, and CBS-22 DT is at about a 66% lock but with a mostly steady picture in Arlington Heights.

BTW, WGBO-DT's PSIP is screwed up; that's why you can't get it by tuning to 66.
You can still watch it by tuning to channel 53.

Anyone notice some great tropo reception tonight? NBC-16 DT from South Bend is coming at full strength right now, and CBS-22 DT is at about a 66% lock but with a mostly steady picture in Arlington Heights.

BTW, WGBO-DT's PSIP is screwed up; that's why you can't get it by tuning to 66.
You can still watch it by tuning to channel 53.

I'll probably never get WNDU-DT again with 900,000 watt WQRF-DT from Rockford blasting in. But WSBT is a solid lock from DeKalb at 11:30 PM. It's not the greatest tropo, though...really great tropo is when you get stations from Ohio, Indianapolis, Grand Rapids and Milwaukee and Madison all at once. That drives you batty trying to figure out what you're seeing!

Duly noted on 53-1. It also happened last weekend but was so busy I forgot to mention it here. They had nothing but a black screen on my TV. One of the two engineers there is really busy...but if I get a chance, I'll throw a shout out. I also wanted to ask them if they had any plans for WXFT to go HD with FIFA soccer.

Hey Gilbert,

If you still have your contact for WGBO-DT 66-1, you may want to pass along to them that they are just broadcasting a blank screen. Well, at least it's been blank on my Zenith stb for about a week now. Signal is there, but no video or audio.

Looks good here -- have you tried a re-scan?

A blank screen with some receiver brands and not others is often a sign of a PSIP problem. Different receivers have different levels of PSIP awareness. Some receivers require a rescan after the station fixes the problem.

Anyone notice some great tropo reception tonight? NBC-16 DT from South Bend is coming at full strength right now, and CBS-22 DT is at about a 66% lock but with a mostly steady picture in Arlington Heights.I was actually getting CBS-22 at a totally steady 77% clip all afternoon and evening! That's probably the best reception I've ever had of that channel.

I was also getting in FOX-28 later on in the evening.

Last night was "Milwaukee Night" for me. CBS-58 was coming in at about 85-90%! PBS HD-36 was also booming in, but nothing they showed all evening was in HD, unfortunately. (It's still at 1080i, Gilbert.)

Last night was "Milwaukee Night" for me. CBS-58 was coming in at about 85-90%! PBS HD-36 was also booming in, but nothing they showed all evening was in HD, unfortunately. (It's still at 1080i, Gilbert.)

Did you get 3-5 from Milwaukee 58 ?

58-1 CBS HD
58-2 WMLW
58-3 NCAA 1 Black screen w/ big bold letters " Hidden Channel! " :confused:
58-4 NCAA 2 Black screen w/ big bold letters " Hidden Channel! " :confused:
58-5 NCAA 3 Black screen w/ big bold letters " Hidden Channel! " :confused:

The Hidden Channel! moves around the screen like a computer screen saver.


I get those though my Polaroid TV, but I don't get though the Sammy 260.

-Willie

Looks good here -- have you tried a re-scan?
Hey Geo,

Yes. It was back up, but as of Friday 5/11, it's black again, with strong signal.

I was actually getting CBS-22 at a totally steady 77% clip all afternoon and evening! That's probably the best reception I've ever had of that channel.

I was also getting in FOX-28 later on in the evening.

Last night was "Milwaukee Night" for me. CBS-58 was coming in at about 85-90%! PBS HD-36 was also booming in, but nothing they showed all evening was in HD, unfortunately. (It's still at 1080i, Gilbert.)

Yes it is...and will be (wish I had a "thumbs up" icon here).

I also had Milwaukee slam in...with my ChannelMaster 4228 8-bay pointed to Chicago! Gotta love lake breezes... :)

Hi all,

It's my first post, but I've been studying this forum for a few days.

Here's my setup. I'm on a boat in Monroe harbor.

I have a Mac Mini on the boat and the EyeTV Hybrid, which is an HDTV (and analog) USB tuner for the Mac.

The good news about this setup is that I am close to both the Hancock and Sears buildings. I have a clear view of the top of both buildings and they're within 2 miles of the boat.

The bad news is that the boat is on a mooring. That means it swings with the wind and is pointing in a different direction each day. This seems to mandate an omnidirectional antenna.

I tried the Radio Shack DA-5200 a few days ago, but I think the directionality is a problem. Sometimes it works well and other times very poorly. Also, it seems to be fundamentally a UHF antenna, so CBS channel 2 is a problem.

I'm very limited by size and I'd like something small (thus the Radio Shack antenna). I'm thinking maybe a UHF/VHF rabbit ears would do the trick, if I can find something that's not too ugly. Another idea is that I have access in the cabin of the boat to stainless steel bolts which are connected to the 30 foot long stainless cables which hold up the boat's mast (the shrouds, for you sailors out there). I could potentially attach wire to the base of these cables.

Any ideas? Thanks in advance...

Well I'm buying a new house, so the Winegard 7084 that's currently in my attic will finally get to breath the fresh air up on the roof. I wonder what kind of looks I'll get from the neighbors as they see an SUV sized antenna being put up. :D But in any case, when I put it up do I need to ground the mast or just the RG6 cable? If so, what kind of wire should I use? Just regular old 10gauge or something like that?

I also might turn the antenna around and aim it towards Rockford & Milwaukee to see if I can pick up any stations there before I finally secure it down.

Hi all,

It's my first post, but I've been studying this forum for a few days.

Here's my setup. I'm on a boat in Monroe harbor.

I have a Mac Mini on the boat and the EyeTV Hybrid, which is an HDTV (and analog) USB tuner for the Mac.

The good news about this setup is that I am close to both the Hancock and Sears buildings. I have a clear view of the top of both buildings and they're within 2 miles of the boat.

The bad news is that the boat is on a mooring. That means it swings with the wind and is pointing in a different direction each day. This seems to mandate an omnidirectional antenna.

I tried the Radio Shack DA-5200 a few days ago, but I think the directionality is a problem. Sometimes it works well and other times very poorly. Also, it seems to be fundamentally a UHF antenna, so CBS channel 2 is a problem.

I'm very limited by size and I'd like something small (thus the Radio Shack antenna). I'm thinking maybe a UHF/VHF rabbit ears would do the trick, if I can find something that's not too ugly. Another idea is that I have access in the cabin of the boat to stainless steel bolts which are connected to the 30 foot long stainless cables which hold up the boat's mast (the shrouds, for you sailors out there). I could potentially attach wire to the base of these cables.

Any ideas? Thanks in advance...

Hi Champ,

Yes, "rabbit ears" with a loop antenna should work well. One problem, though: Because the nature of 8VSB, when you're boat is moving...you'll get nothing, no matter how good your system. If your boat is rocking, it probably won't come in either. So, if you noticed dropouts with a rocking boat, that may very well be why.

Well I'm buying a new house, so the Winegard 7084 that's currently in my attic will finally get to breath the fresh air up on the roof. I wonder what kind of looks I'll get from the neighbors as they see an SUV sized antenna being put up. :D But in any case, when I put it up do I need to ground the mast or just the RG6 cable? If so, what kind of wire should I use? Just regular old 10gauge or something like that?

I also might turn the antenna around and aim it towards Rockford & Milwaukee to see if I can pick up any stations there before I finally secure it down.

I'd ground the RG-6 cable and the mast. By code, I believe you are supposed to do that. Greywolf knows more (as do others) on this topic, so I defer to them.

But in any case, when I put it up do I need to ground the mast or just the RG6 cable? If so, what kind of wire should I use? Just regular old 10gauge or something like that?Solid Signal's antenna installation instructions are pretty thorough and should help:

http://www.solidsignal.com/content/?DocID=1877.

(It's a PDF.)

Hi Champ,

Yes, "rabbit ears" with a loop antenna should work well. One problem, though: Because the nature of 8VSB, when you're boat is moving...you'll get nothing, no matter how good your system. If your boat is rocking, it probably won't come in either. So, if you noticed dropouts with a rocking boat, that may very well be why.

Thanks ,

Interesting about the reception issues and motion...
As I understand it, the Doppler effect creates timing issues with decoding the signal. I guess I'll find out how much motion/rocking is enough to create a problem. Seems like an interesting experiment. I'll report back on my results.
Thanks again.

Watching the Cubs Game, Not in HD...IS WFLD-DT Down Again??

Watching the Cubs Game, Not in HD...IS WFLD-DT Down Again??

If it helps, it's in HD on the national Fox D* feed on channel 88.

This is the OTA thread, remember? ;)

Well aware of it, just letting him know that it's not a problem with the source or network.

Well aware if it, just letting him know that it's not a problem with the source or network.They were having some problems with their (WGN/Cubs) HD feed a few days back, so it may be related to that. This was last time they were on local network TV - I don't know if it was still ongoing after that on their Comcast Sports Net home games.

Fox probably uses WGN's feed, and can't use D*'s. Don't know why one would be HD and the other not, though (that kind of stuff is beyond my comprehension ;)).

Fox probably uses WGN's feed, and can't use D*'s. Don't know why one would be HD and the other not, though (that kind of stuff is beyond my comprehension ;)).

Sorry, don't understand this part of your response. The game is in Philly and is Fox's national game of the week, not Wrigley so what does WGN have to do with this?

Its fine now, it just wasnt HD for the 1st Inning and now everything is HD.

Sorry, don't understand this part of your response. The game is in Philly and is Fox's national game of the week, not Wrigley so what does WGN have to do with this?I was aware it was on Fox, but not that it wasn't at home. I had it on, but wasn't really paying that close attention. Just had it on in the background.

Was the Fox game actually in HD after it changed to widescreen? It wasn't listed as such in my guide, so I just assumed it was their 16:9, 480p stuff - I was watching on a 480i set, so I couldn't tell.

The HD kicked in on WFLD 32-1 at 3:05 PM. Seemed to be true 720P HD and actually looked pretty decent. When Fox switched to the backup game during the Cub rain delay, that game was in 4:3 SD.

Next Saturday, the two Fox games are Sox @ Cubs, and Yankees-Mets. You would think both of these would be in HD.

Looks good here -- have you tried a re-scan?

Tried that....same results, strong signal but still a blank screen.

Tried that....same results, strong signal but still a blank screen.
It's not you, retro...I now have people emailing me letting me know their PSIP isn't locking. Something in the PSIP stream is definitely munged. I sent a PM, and I know they'll look into it.

For the last 20 minutes or so, WLS channel 7.1 has been broadcasting a split screen. The left and right sides of the picture are reversed, separated by a wide blank space in the middle of the screen. Channel 7.2 looks OK. This is happening on three different tuners so I'm pretty sure it's a station issue.

OK. As I am writing this, it just switched back to normal.

Anyone else see this?

Can someone help me look for a over the air antenna. And yes I live in Chicago...............

Can someone help me look for a over the air antenna. And yes I live in Chicago...............

Hi Allik,

I'll kill two birds with one stone here.

First, 66-1 has been fixed. Now, questions...

House, apartment, townhome?

Will the antenna be on the roof, attic, or top of the set?

How far away and what direction are you from the John Hancock tower?

Will assume worst case scenario: apartment, facing away from the buildings.

If the antenna is on the entertainment center, a $10 pair of "rabbit ears" with a "loop" or some type of UHF antenna may work just fine. You can get those at Radio Shack. I'd try that first, actually, IF you can face the Hancock to some degree (IE, you aren't on the southeast side of a building, and the Hancock is northwest of you, unless you are close).

Hi Allik,

I'll kill two birds with one stone here.

First, 66-1 has been fixed. Now, questions...

House, apartment, townhome?

Will the antenna be on the roof, attic, or top of the set?

How far away and what direction are you from the John Hancock tower?

Will assume worst case scenario: apartment, facing away from the buildings.

If the antenna is on the entertainment center, a $10 pair of "rabbit ears" with a "loop" or some type of UHF antenna may work just fine. You can get those at Radio Shack. I'd try that first, actually, IF you can face the Hancock to some degree (IE, you aren't on the southeast side of a building, and the Hancock is northwest of you, unless you are close).

Yes I live in a house, southwest side of Chicago.

root top antenna or the antenna for satellite dish. (I have Directv)

And yes I'm facing the John Hancock tower

What happened to tonight's Soundstage (Garbage is on)? I saw it a while ago and thought it looked fine. Now it looks washed out and almost fuzzy.

The only difference is that I'm watching over Comcast now, but I thought they pushed the HD channels out identically to the broadcast stream? And in general, I haven't noticed this issue with other programming.

EDIT- I just looked at it further, and it almost looks like it's upconverted SD!

Yes I live in a house, southwest side of Chicago.

root top antenna or the antenna for satellite dish. (I have Directv)

And yes I'm facing the John Hancock tower

If you're willing to put up a roof antenna, that would be best. I'd recommend
this:

http://www.lowes.com/lowes/lkn?action=productDetail&productId=159752-000000693-3016

But you might have to get it from another store. Now, here's something that will raise eyebrows here. Before long-time Chicago AVS'ers raise a stink, let me explain.

http://www.radioshack.com/product/index.jsp?parentPage=family&summary=summary&techSpecs=techSpecs&currentTab=summary&cp=2032057.2032187.2032189.2032205&custRatings=custRatings&features=features&accessories=accessories&productId=2103085&support=support&tab=custRatings

This is the Radio Shack VU-90, for $60 plus accessories. It won't last as long as a Winegard antenna. If you are willing to order online or drive up to Mt. Prospect to get this:

https://www.tselectronic.com/winegard/hd7080.html

It's $72. The latter is the best in terms of quality, no doubt. The first two aren't built as well as the last one; the Winegard should get you almost 30 years of life if installed properly. The first two will go 10 years; the Radio Shack one may be less. The "big brotehr" VU-190 Radio Shack antenna has an annoying habit of getting destroyed within 5 years; this smaller sister antenna does better with a lot fewer elements to break. I would not recommend an antenna on the dish itself; although they make them, they generally perform poorly compared to all the ones listed above.

Any of the three will do what you want for it to do. If you put a rotor on it, you would also get WYIN-DT, "Lakeshore Public Television" in northwest Indiana, if you care to pick it up.

Hey, there's nothing wrong with the Radio Shack boom and yaggi. At least, you're not trying to shove those new wacky HDTV antennas. Why are you getting him to point at the Hancock instead of Sears? Did I miss something here....

Hey, there's nothing wrong with the Radio Shack boom and yaggi. At least, you're not trying to shove those new wacky HDTV antennas. Why are you getting him to point at the Hancock instead of Sears? Did I miss something here....

Hi Escopa,

WBBM-DT is the hardest to get, with its low power and subject to high amounts of interference. Get that station, and the rest is comparably very easy to get.

The VU-190 Radio Shack antenna, their far suburban/rural monster-size model does have a tendency to break within 5 years. Sometimes they go 10 years, but usually with elements broken off. They are very good for attics, though. And they do have a tendency to pick up WBBM-DT out to 40 miles, even in attics, if you have a straight shot to the Hancock.

Het Gilbert, I noticed awhile back that the Lowe's by me (Lake in the Hills) stopped carrying the Channel Master stuff. All they had left were a few Stealth's, last few times I was there. They even got rid of all the hardware and masts. Even the little, connection stuff. Just Philips. And even though it's the exact same stuff as the Philips, I don't remember seeing any Zenith anymore, either. Altogether, they probably less than half of what they had before.

Ugh. If I wanted that, I could just go down the block to Menards or Walmart.

Don't know if it's only this store, but I just thought I'd bring it up in case.

Anyone else notice that WGN had a noticeably more detailed HD picture than Comcast SportsNet HD for the Sox-Cubs game today? Very surprising, given the past performance of these two carriers. We'll see if it happens again Sunday.

Het Gilbert, I noticed awhile back that the Lowe's by me (Lake in the Hills) stopped carrying the Channel Master stuff. All they had left were a few Stealth's, last few times I was there. They even got rid of all the hardware and masts. Even the little, connection stuff. Just Philips. And even though it's the exact same stuff as the Philips, I don't remember seeing any Zenith anymore, either. Altogether, they probably less than half of what they had before.

Ugh. If I wanted that, I could just go down the block to Menards or Walmart.

Don't know if it's only this store, but I just thought I'd bring it up in case.

Thanks. Menard's is in the same boat, although they still have everything out in the DeKalb store. I wonder if, after the Daytona 500 and the Super Bowl, if antenna sales plummeted? I find it hard to believe after the news story hit about AntennasDirect that this the case. Head to www.antennasdirect.com and see the story about them that aired on CNBC. They can't keep up!

I do think that it will be harder to find antennas now in the "big box" stores. Specialty shops like Tri-State Electronics and online stores may be the best way to get what you need. I, too, have looked at the store catalogs, and after the Daytona 500, they started pulling their antenna lineups. Which is a shame, since this is when people (cough, cough, Ramm, cough) can go outside and hoist antennas with the onset of late spring.

If this is the case, then Antennas Direct, Tri-State and these specialty antenna shops will get a lot of business. You won't hear them complain. :D

ANyone have trouble With WLS HD Today? Currently the audio is dropping all the time.

I get my HD through Comcast, and no issues over the last 10 minutes or so.

Oh Yeah so do I sorry i meant to post this in the comcast thread. i Will repost there

Het Gilbert, I noticed awhile back that the Lowe's by me (Lake in the Hills) stopped carrying the Channel Master stuff. All they had left were a few Stealth's, last few times I was there. They even got rid of all the hardware and masts. Even the little, connection stuff. Just Philips. And even though it's the exact same stuff as the Philips, I don't remember seeing any Zenith anymore, either. Altogether, they probably less than half of what they had before.

Ugh. If I wanted that, I could just go down the block to Menards or Walmart.

Don't know if it's only this store, but I just thought I'd bring it up in case.


Rammitinski, All Lowe's stores are getting rid of Channel Master antenna and accessories. Don't know if they are going to replace with some other brand or just not sell antennas anymore. Just like Home Depot has got rid of RCA antenna and replaced with GE brand antenna and accessories.

-Willie

Sorry if this is a stupid question, I'm new. Can a D*TV dish with 5 LNB's be used for OTA HD on the West side of Chicago? The installer said no, but I've read that it can. I get locals on the dish, but would lke OTA as a back up. Thanks.....

Sorry if this is a stupid question, I'm new. Can a D*TV dish with 5 LNB's be used for OTA HD on the West side of Chicago? The installer said no, but I've read that it can. I get locals on the dish, but would lke OTA as a back up. Thanks.....

No, you need to install an over the air antenna to receive OTA signals. Depending on your location you might be able to use an indoor antenna, an outdoor mounted in the attic or mounted on the roof.

What happened to tonight's Soundstage (Garbage is on)? I saw it a while ago and thought it looked fine. Now it looks washed out and almost fuzzy.

The only difference is that I'm watching over Comcast now, but I thought they pushed the HD channels out identically to the broadcast stream? And in general, I haven't noticed this issue with other programming.

EDIT- I just looked at it further, and it almost looks like it's upconverted SD!

Yep--you'd think WTTW productions would reduce the flashing lights and quick transitions to reduce the bitrate requirements enough to look ok on the local bitstarved broadcast.

Yep--you'd think WTTW productions would reduce the flashing lights and quick transitions to reduce the bitrate requirements enough to look ok on the local bitstarved broadcast.

They probably have to produce it for the other PBS outlets which, unlike WTTW, are not incompetents who are downrezzing the 1080i feed to a bit starved 720p.

This is weird. Last week I started noticing dropouts on all WTTW digital stations. We don't watch much TV during the week, but this weekend it was really getting annoying. I didn't time the frequency or duration. This was during the daytime.

So I thought I'd compare it against the worst digital signal, WBBM. Well, WBBM came in crystal clear consistently. I re-aimed my antenna (without the aid of compass) and the WTTW dropouts were still there and WBBM was still crystal clear. I'd think the weaker and lower frequency WBBM signal would be a goner if WTTW wasn't coming in well.

My TV doesn't display signal strength, so I don't have those figures either. I'm 22 miles from downtown, Highland Park/ Deerfield area. I have a "traditional" style RCA brand rooftop antenna, sized for 35 mile range, mounted atop a split-lever house. Moderate tree blockage, typical for 1950's developed suburban neighborhoods. I am using several cheap splitters between the antenna and the TV, but if this was the cause shouldn't WBBM deteriorate also?

So, anybody have any thoughts on my WTTW dropouts? Thanks

This is weird. Last week I started noticing dropouts on all WTTW digital stations. We don't watch much TV during the week, but this weekend it was really getting annoying. I didn't time the frequency or duration. This was during the daytime.

So I thought I'd compare it against the worst digital signal, WBBM. Well, WBBM came in crystal clear consistently. I re-aimed my antenna (without the aid of compass) and the WTTW dropouts were still there and WBBM was still crystal clear. I'd think the weaker and lower frequency WBBM signal would be a goner if WTTW wasn't coming in well.

My TV doesn't display signal strength, so I don't have those figures either. I'm 22 miles from downtown, Highland Park/ Deerfield area. I have a "traditional" style RCA brand rooftop antenna, sized for 35 mile range, mounted atop a split-lever house. Moderate tree blockage, typical for 1950's developed suburban neighborhoods. I am using several cheap splitters between the antenna and the TV, but if this was the cause shouldn't WBBM deteriorate also?


Mine was fine. The trees budding leaves may be causing multipath for you, confusing your tuner. Or, being on channel 47, your signal may be attenuated enough so that you're seeing problems. Do you have a signal amplifier/preamplifier on your setup? If you are splitting 4 ways or more, you probably need one.

Gilbert -

Isn't the UHF signal more affected by that sort of interference (leaves) than the low-VHF one?

(WTTW's been fine out here, too.)

Gilbert -

Isn't the UHF signal more affected by that sort of interference (leaves) than the low-VHF one?

(WTTW's been fine out here, too.)

Yes it does, I should have been more clear. But, couple that with several splits of the signal, and you have a mess on your hands that hopefully a preamp or amp can cure.

They probably have to produce it for the other PBS outlets which, unlike WTTW, are not incompetents who are downrezzing the 1080i feed to a bit starved 720p.
Believe it or not they actually do tape a chunk of them at WTTW. I don't know the actually percentage but its a good chunk.

I believe that.

I was just saying that they have to produce it for sale to the other PBS outlets that don't have problems with their HD transmission.

If the producers of Soundstage had to shoot it so it looked good on WTTW they would be shooting with one fixed camera. (visions of old high school concerts come to mind :D )

Yes it does, I should have been more clear. But, couple that with several splits of the signal, and you have a mess on your hands that hopefully a preamp or amp can cure.

I figured I'd have trouble with something when the leaves appeared. Time to clean up the coax runs and get that amp I've thinking about. Thanks for the quick responses!

I believe that.

I was just saying that they have to produce it for sale to the other PBS outlets that don't have problems with their HD transmission.

If the producers of Soundstage had to shoot it so it looked good on WTTW they would be shooting with one fixed camera. (visions of old high school concerts come to mind :D )

My impression was that they all were taped at WTTW. I have very little problem with WTTWD when it's working properly. In fact, I can't really tell the difference in casual viewing between 720p and 1080i.

But something bad was happening with that particular airing of Soundstage. Or, something worse than usual was happening- I really don't care for the production on the show. Do we need to do camera cuts every three seconds? I also find that the audio can be overdone- there was another one on recently where the center channel went completely silent when the singer wasn't actually singing. Very artificial sounding. But that's the producer's problem.

Also, I thought HD programming was recorded in something less compressed than the broadcast formats, and then compressed for distribution and broadcast. When WTTW went 720p, I thought I remembered hearing that PBS distributes at 1080p and the stations downconvert as necessary.

As far as interference goes, I think every channel is different. Where I am, channels 23-32 have horrible multipath, but some of the others are almost rock solid. Even channel 2.1, which only gives me grief when there is a noisy appliance running in the apartment.

Also, I thought HD programming was recorded in something less compressed than the broadcast formats, and then compressed for distribution and broadcast. When WTTW went 720p, I thought I remembered hearing that PBS distributes at 1080p and the stations downconvert as necessary.

I think that was discussed back when WTTW added Create and changed to 720p and that is what I remember also, that everything is distributed at 1080p. Should be in the old thread someplace. WTTW-D is watchable, I'm still ticked off about their change to 720p and how it was implemented. It was really noticable after it happened. Today, I don't know if they have gotten better or my eyes just got used to the broadcast.

I believe that.

I was just saying that they have to produce it for sale to the other PBS outlets that don't have problems with their HD transmission.

If the producers of Soundstage had to shoot it so it looked good on WTTW they would be shooting with one fixed camera. (visions of old high school concerts come to mind :D )
If only our high school productions looked that good. :D

OR sounded that good. Makes you realize how much our parents loved us.

This is weird. Last week I started noticing dropouts on all WTTW digital stations. We don't watch much TV during the week, but this weekend it was really getting annoying. I didn't time the frequency or duration. This was during the daytime.



I've noticed the same in Geneva. All UHF analogs come in strong w/o multipath and I don't have a signal destroying preamp. I watch 11.1 probably more than any other DTV station and have noticed over the past few weeks that they've had occasional dropouts and sometimes the lip sync will go way off then catchup over 10 seconds or so, almost like a stream that has intermittent DARS only this looks like an encoder problem.

Of course you wouldn't have these type of encoder issues if you used Harmonic encoders... (sorry Harris fans)

In a very interesting twist of events, WBBM-DT has filed a last-minute
request with the FCC to broadcast with high power on channel 12, after analog shutdown in February, 2009! The station has filed a request to run 13.8 kw (13,800 watts) at
1,700' above ground level from Sears Tower. Given the current FCC rules,
this is as high as they could go for now. As analog is shut off, stations
might be allowed to adjust their final DTV power.

As noted on AVS and seen on earlier applications for WXFT/WGBO, channel 12
is wide open for 300 miles except for some interference with WREX-DT in
Rockford, which plans to move to channel 13. And of course, we all know
that the signal would be severely hampered on channel 11.

The FCC has pushed hard over the last 2 years to get as many digital TV
stations off of VHF-LO (channels 2-6) as possible, due to all the
problems with noise and interference from numerous sources. With WBBM-DT
applying at the very last moment, it is noted that the FCC has been
granting applications that go above the .1% interference standard for
extraordinary circumstances such as this. Given WBBM-DT's track record of
being an "early adopter" of DTV technology and going to full power
quickly, and by getting off of VHF-LO with no other reasonable place to
go at this time...my guess is the application is likely to sail through
the FCC without a major hitch.

Although the signal will still be interrupted in thunderstorms and may
be hard to pick up in steel and thick concrete buildings, it will no
longer be susceptible to many forms of interference seen on the VHF-LO
band. As noted by AVS Forum and other users, at 30,000 watts, WMVS-DT,
Milwaukee's PBS station broadcasting on channel 8, can make it out 70+
miles with a much lower antenna than WBBM will have. Because WBBM's
antenna will be so high up, the FCC rules state they cannot broadcast at
that high of a power, or they will broadcast much farther than the FCC
allows. Nevertheless, with 13,800 watts, WBBM's signal in most directions
should easily go 70 miles from Sears Tower with an outdoor antenna, with
the exception of due east, thanks to a station on channel 12 broadcasting
in far northwest Ohio. Otherwise, the station has no interference from
anybody else within 306 miles. The WBBM-DT predicted coverage map attests
to that, as the coverage and request are seen here:

http://gullfoss2.fcc.gov/prod/ecfs/retrieve.cgi?native_or_pdf=pdf&id_document=6518723075

Thus, the proposed signal will go roughly to Kenosha on the north,
west of DeKalb on the west, just past Kankakee to the south, and to just west of South Bend on the east.

I don't know if WBBM will still use WTTW's space and equipment, but it
makes sense if they would (and make life very easy). And, as a minor
footnote, the WOCK-LD application on channel 12 may still go through,
but full power trumps the "secondary" low power TV service, so they
will be forced to move sometime after February, 2009. But in any case,
if this goes through, pop the champagne corks...in 2009, low-power WBBM is history. And quoting the late Harry Carey...

HO-LEEE COW!!!!

Also, look at this:

http://gullfoss2.fcc.gov/prod/ecfs/retrieve.cgi?native_or_pdf=pdf&id_document=6518908204

WREX has requested to go high power on channel 13, but says it will work with WBBM to avoid interference; however, WREX claims that by going 12 kw, they won't interfere with WBBM at high power.

But WBBM-DT doesn't like that too much, as it appears to interfere with them a bit:

http://gullfoss2.fcc.gov/prod/ecfs/retrieve.cgi?native_or_pdf=pdf&id_document=6518912330

Again, a reminder: the channel change is NOT official yet; but it looks good for both WREX-DT and WBBM-DT, both with terrible circumstances currently, to come out winning huge in 2009. Thanks to AVS forum users Afiggett and Nitewatchman for revealing to the world that all of this has now been posted on the FCC's ECFS web site; all this information has come from them (and the FCC, of course). Link to their discoveries and discussion here:

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=823166&page=2

Look at the bottom of the page.

Wow! What great news. Let's all keep our fingers crossed that this happens.

In a very interesting twist of events, WBBM-DT has filed a last-minute request with the FCC to broadcast with high power on channel 12, after analog shutdown in February, 2009!

Thanks for the news! We'll have to hope for the best.

But something bad was happening with that particular airing of Soundstage. Or, something worse than usual was happening- I really don't care for the production on the show. Do we need to do camera cuts every three seconds? I also find that the audio can be overdone- there was another one on recently where the center channel went completely silent when the singer wasn't actually singing. Very artificial sounding. But that's the producer's problem.

I had an opportunity to sit in the production trailer for a recent filming. The thing to remember is that this is a live performance - warts and all. The directors (video, audio & graphics) can't always cover up a performer's flub. They have 10 cameras going (I think 4 were fixed and 6 were mobile including a big boom crane), and they use a really top notch sound company, but GIGO still happens. In this particular performance, the singer refused a wireless clip-on and had a bad tendency to stray from the mic. Guess what - no vocals! The band also refused to wear make-up, which made for some interesting skin tones in the bright lights.

I'll agree that the edit cuts can be too quick, but sometimes in the middle of a great shot something undesirable pops up in the background (audience member picking their nose and such) and they need to do a quick switch. All in all, I was pretty impressed with the production. Also, if you pick up the DVDs from the performances, they are very impressive, and usually include some bonus material not seen on the show.

I had an opportunity to sit in the production trailer for a recent filming. The thing to remember is that this is a live performance - warts and all. The directors (video, audio & graphics) can't always cover up a performer's flub. They have 10 cameras going (I think 4 were fixed and 6 were mobile including a big boom crane), and they use a really top notch sound company, but GIGO still happens. In this particular performance, the singer refused a wireless clip-on and had a bad tendency to stray from the mic. Guess what - no vocals! The band also refused to wear make-up, which made for some interesting skin tones in the bright lights.

I'll agree that the edit cuts can be too quick, but sometimes in the middle of a great shot something undesirable pops up in the background (audience member picking their nose and such) and they need to do a quick switch. All in all, I was pretty impressed with the production. Also, if you pick up the DVDs from the performances, they are very impressive, and usually include some bonus material not seen on the show.
Corplex or Trio Video??

I just ordered an Winegard PS-7032 from Warren Electronics. I talked to the guy on the phone and told him I needed a mast and tripod for it. He said they usually recommend getting these locally so you don't pay to ship them.

Where do you find these things in Chicago (Lombard / Glen Ellyn area)?

Radio Shack's web site shows a 3' tripod, but I'd rather go with 5' since this antenna is a bit big.

Check with Menards. I haven't been in there in a while, but they used to sell them. Pretty sure Fry's would have what you need as well.

I just ordered an Winegard PS-7032 from Warren Electronics. I talked to the guy on the phone and told him I needed a mast and tripod for it. He said they usually recommend getting these locally so you don't pay to ship them.

Where do you find these things in Chicago (Lombard / Glen Ellyn area)?

Radio Shack's web site shows a 3' tripod, but I'd rather go with 5' since this antenna is a bit big.

Radio Shack also has a 5' tripod as well.

http://www.radioshack.com/product/index.jsp?productId=2062033&cp=&sr=1&origkw=Antenna+mast&kw=antenna+mast&parentPage=search

But yes, Menards carries tripods out here, but I don't recall if it's the 5' one.

Do you think I could use a 10' mast or would that require guy wires? My house is very low to the ground and the extra few feet could be useful.

Do you think I could use a 10' mast or would that require guy wires? My house is very low to the ground and the extra few feet could be useful.

I'd say 3'-5' is fine. As long as you are outside, 10' above ground, you should be good to go!

Thanks for the tips.

I just went to Menard's in Glen Ellyn and picked up a 3' tripod (the only choice) and a 9' mast (they also have them in 4.5'). Along with 100' of 10 gauge copper wire and an 8' ground rod, this costs as much as the antenna!

Thanks for the tips.

I just went to Menard's in Glen Ellyn and picked up a 3' tripod (the only choice) and a 9' mast (they also have them in 4.5'). Along with 100' of 10 gauge copper wire and an 8' ground rod, this costs as much as the antenna!

Crisp HD signal that beats satellite and cable...priceless. :D

In a very interesting twist of events, WBBM-DT has filed a last-minute
request with the FCC to broadcast with high power on channel 12, after analog shutdown in February, 2009! The station has filed a request to run 13.8 kw (13,800 watts) at
1,700' above ground level from Sears Tower. Given the current FCC rules,
this is as high as they could go for now. As analog is shut off, stations
might be allowed to adjust their final DTV power.


That would be the greatest news if it happens. As, I am in between Chicago proposed WBBM-2 on DT 11 and Madison WMSN Fox 47 which is on DT 11 and Fox 47 will stay after analog shutdown. It bad that I loose the Chicago DT WGN-9 to Madison DT WMTV-15 and both will stay on DT-19 after analog shutdown :mad: . But going to 12 is even better. SO FCC make it happen!

WOW I didn't know WMVS DT is at 30,000 watts, I lock it 24/7 with my Homebuilt DB-2 indoor. Without looking up right now with station power and heights for WISN-12 analog, with being at 43 miles away I can get it with my Homebuilt DB-2 so I am hopping I should get the DT WBBM-2 on 12 with my Homebuilt antenna without to much trouble.


-Willie

Corplex or Trio Video??

Neither. It was HDReady.

Is there a list of all the RF Channel numbers for digital stations in Chicago? I did a scan with my TV tuner but I want to make sure that I'm not missing any stations. I can set them manually but I need the RF Channel number. I know that I'm missing WBBM-DT, it never shows up when I scan. Sometimes the analog version shows up but it is a very weak signal. I live in the far south suburbs near the Will County border and I'm using a regular TV antenna that came with an old TV set. I know that the signal will be weak but I can check the channel strength when the weather conditions are optimal without having to scan through all the channels. So does such a list exists?

See post # 2 in this thread. RF Channel number is in parens following the call sign.

See post #5 for problems with WBBM-DT reception.

Thanks for the info. I guess I should have started at the beginning of the thread. :o

Crisp HD signal that beats satellite and cable...priceless. :D
I just got the Winegard PS-7032 up on the roof. The subs for channels 7 and 32 are coming in at >90% and all the others (including WBBM-DT!) are locked in at 100%. I even got a lock on 56-1 from Gary at about 60%.

I'm using a DirecTV HR20-700 for a receiver. Thanks for the tips!

I just got the Winegard PS-7032 up on the roof. The subs for channels 7 and 32 are coming in at >90% and all the others (including WBBM-DT!) are locked in at 100%. I even got a lock on 56-1 from Gary at about 60%.

I'm using a DirecTV HR20-700 for a receiver. Thanks for the tips!

You are welcome! Glad it is working out. Enjoy, and take care!

Hello all,
I'll be moving to chicago next week and with a new HDTV in hand would like to receive OTA HD stations. I will be living in a highrise in downtown. Any suggestions for antennaes would be appreciated. thank you
Here's the information from antennaweb:

* green - vhf WBBM-DT 2.1 CBS CHICAGO IL 356° 0.9 3
red - vhf WBBM 2 CBS CHICAGO IL 356° 0.9 2
red - vhf WGN 9 CW CHICAGO IL 356° 0.9 9
blue - vhf WMAQ 5 NBC CHICAGO IL 239° 0.9 5
blue - uhf WFLD 32 FOX CHICAGO IL 356° 0.9 32
blue - uhf WGBO 66 UNI JOLIET IL 356° 0.9 66
blue - uhf WCPX 38 ION CHICAGO IL 356° 0.9 38
blue - uhf WYCC 20 PBS CHICAGO IL 356° 0.9 20
* violet - uhf WYCC-DT 20.1 PBS CHICAGO IL 356° 0.9 21

thanks for your help