Yesterday I added a preamp (AP-8700) to my setup. So now I've got a terrestrial digital V21 on the roof, preamp, and 50' RG6 going to a TiVO HD. I noticed a few % increase on the signals but it was not enough to make WLS lock reliably.

WYCC 20.1 is barely showing up at all on the signal meter. I'm 35mi west of the transmitters -- is anyone out here having success getting 20.1?

2.1 80%
5.x 80%
7.x 50% not locking
9.x 100%
11.x 90%
20.x 5% not locking
32.x 80%
26.x 90%
38.x 70%
50.1 90%

Yesterday I added a preamp (AP-8700) to my setup. So now I've got a terrestrial digital V21 on the roof, preamp, and 50' RG6 going to a TiVO HD. I noticed a few % increase on the signals but it was not enough to make WLS lock reliably.

WYCC 20.1 is barely showing up at all on the signal meter. I'm 35mi west of the transmitters -- is anyone out here having success getting 20.1?

2.1 80%
5.x 80%
7.x 50% not locking
9.x 100%
11.x 90%
20.x 5% not locking
32.x 80%
26.x 90%
38.x 70%
50.1 90%
I'm on the east Side of Geneva, Winegard HD7695P on the roof, CM 7777 preamp:
No problem with 20, signal around 90, most other UHF's at 97 to 100,
Ch 7 at 88 - 90 (since their power increase, was 65-75), Ch 12 is 92.

No problems in Plano with WYCC. 95-100% on the signal meter. WLS bounces from 83-95%, WBBM ranges from 87-100%.

HI - I just got back from a week of vacation (actually furlough - gotta love the new economy) in Louisiana, so I totally missed the digital cutover. I was anxious to get back to Chicago and worried that I wouldn't get ABC.

Long story short - all is mostly well here in the West side of Elk Grove Village, I think I'm about 26 miles west north west of the towers. I have a rooftop antenna of indeterminate make on the roof (but it looks just like a wineguard that was recommended to me from this board), and it feeds three TV's. No pre-amps/amps anywhere.

My dtvpal dvr is fed from a shared feed (one feed from the antenna that splits into two and feeds two tv's) and the DTVPAL gets everything (including ABC at ~75-80%, and CBS at 80% +. Before the switchover I think they were higher - maybe 90%). The DTVPAL isn't pulling in some TVGOS data, but that is a question for the DTVPAL board. My other TV downstairs on the shared feed has a Zenith 901 box on it, and that one isn't pulling in NBC, PBS (11), Fox, channel 50, and a couple others. I scanned, unplugged the antenna and rescanned, then plugged it back in and scanned again. NBC came in this morning, but was out yesterday and is now out again.

My upstairs set is on a feed right from the antenna, and it also ties into a Zenith 901 box. This TV pulls in everything, so maybe the splitting the feed really hurts, and maybe the DTVPAL is better able to handle a weaker signal.

I guess my only question would be if anyone could think of a connection between the key channels that I'm not getting (NBC and PBS). Since the other two tv's get all the channels, I'm probably not going to invest in an amp, and I can't turn the antenna. I will switch my two Zenith 901 boxes to make sure that there isn't a problem with one of the boxes, but that is it.

I'm on the east Side of Geneva,
Ch 7 at 88 - 90 (since their power increase, was 65-75)

Power increase? I read here earlier that a permit had been filed, but wasn't aware it had happened.

I still don't lock in and signal strength is still in the "bad" range on my DTT901.:(

Yesterday I added a preamp (AP-8700) to my setup. So now I've got a terrestrial digital V21 on the roof, preamp, and 50' RG6 going to a TiVO HD. I noticed a few % increase on the signals but it was not enough to make WLS lock reliably.

WYCC 20.1 is barely showing up at all on the signal meter. I'm 35mi west of the transmitters -- is anyone out here having success getting 20.1?

2.1 80%
5.x 80%
7.x 50% not locking
9.x 100%
11.x 90%
20.x 5% not locking
32.x 80%
26.x 90%
38.x 70%
50.1 90%

I just looked at your antenna, Acteng, and I'm surprised you're getting anything. That design is quite old and inefficient; the UHF receives poorly, and the VHF isn't any better. That's why you're probably having all of this trouble. I don't know if you can take that antenna back, but I would strongly recommend this instead:

http://www.solidsignal.com/prod_display.asp?PROD=HD7697P

That will get you what you want. Very directional and with resulting high signal gain.

Power increase? I read here earlier that a permit had been filed, but wasn't aware it had happened.

I still don't lock in and signal strength is still in the "bad" range on my DTT901.:(

No power increase yet, and it's for testing only. However, I can tell you it was approved by the FCC on Saturday. Yep, the FCC does work weekends when people are screaming! :D

We have had some good tropo with VHF and UHF withe the statioanry front to our south over the last 24 hours. Last night I saw blips on 11 (Fox Madison), but couldn't lock it. WYIN-DT was pegged. WBBM and WLS were pegged, as were all the Chicago stations. Milwaukee and Madison just boomed in. Madison did so without having to turn my antenna!

No power increase yet, and it's for testing only. However, I can tell you it was approved by the FCC on Saturday. Yep, the FCC does work weekends when people are screaming! :D

OK, testing - but I can tell you they're consistently stronger here than they were for the first few days, after June 12.
So I have to conclude that they turned it up, even if they're not admitting to it yet. :o

OK, testing - but I can tell you they're consistently stronger here than they were for the first few days, after June 12.
So I have to conclude that they turned it up, even if they're not admitting to it yet. :o

There's absolutely no difference here at all. 64 - 68 when they first switched, 64 - 68 today when I was attempting to watch it.

We have had some good tropo with VHF and UHF withe the statioanry front to our south over the last 24 hours. Last night I saw blips on 11 (Fox Madison), but couldn't lock it. WYIN-DT was pegged. WBBM and WLS were pegged, as were all the Chicago stations. Milwaukee and Madison just boomed in. Madison did so without having to turn my antenna!

Got some South Bend Tropo coming in now. My Winegard clone is doing a great job. Milwaukee is too weak now (in the bad scale area). Have to rectify that when I put that U-120 up and dedicated at Milwaukee.

Have you noticed that WSBT-DT is really a powerhouse? It is there the most WNDU comes in second. When they were analog WNDU was the powerhouse by me WSBT was second. What's your RST on WSBT-DT by you?

I just looked at your antenna, Acteng, and I'm surprised you're getting anything. That design is quite old and inefficient; the UHF receives poorly, and the VHF isn't any better. That's why you're probably having all of this trouble. I don't know if you can take that antenna back, but I would strongly recommend this instead:

http://www.solidsignal.com/prod_display.asp?PROD=HD7697P

That will get you what you want. Very directional and with resulting high signal gain.

Yeah...that V21 really doesn't look like much of an antenna to my eyes. There seems to be little there for VHF-HI. I've read lotsa good things about the HD7697P. If you want to spend more bucks, there's the even bigger HD7698P but I seriously doubt that you'll need that at your distance and with an amp.

I agree with sebenste.. try a new antenna. ... neilkaz ...

I just looked at your antenna, Acteng, and I'm surprised you're getting anything. That design is quite old and inefficient; the UHF receives poorly, and the VHF isn't any better. That's why you're probably having all of this trouble. I don't know if you can take that antenna back, but I would strongly recommend this instead:

http://www.solidsignal.com/prod_display.asp?PROD=HD7697P

That will get you what you want. Very directional and with resulting high signal gain.

Thanks for the recommendation. I've had the V21 antenna since 2005 and reception has been completely hit or miss. This WLS business though has broken the setup and I'll need to look into something better. I see that the V21 is still being marketed as "ultra high gain VHF/UHF" but that 12.9dB gain must be the exception not the norm. Ah, marketing.

Got some South Bend Tropo coming in now. My Winegard clone is doing a great job. Milwaukee is too weak now (in the bad scale area). Have to rectify that when I put that U-120 up and dedicated at Milwaukee.

Have you noticed that WSBT-DT is really a powerhouse? It is there the most WNDU comes in second. When they were analog WNDU was the powerhouse by me WSBT was second. What's your RST on WSBT-DT by you?

+1 TVropro. And that was even with low-power WSPY-LP at 3 kw 20 miles to my southeast interfering with it! Now, I get a *constant* low signal on it, even during the daytime. Can't lock it, but a guy a mile south of me can lock it for a few seconds every minute or two during the day, again all of it with no tropo. Fantastic signal. Can't get WNDU due to Fox's 900 kw WQRF-DT out here. WSJV mixes with WTMJ from Milwaukee, and 48 is stomped on by MeToo here in Chicago.

For those who care Telemundo is now in HD. Saw one of their promos in HD and it looked just as good as CBS.. I was watching the crow, unfortunatly the subtitles are in spanish.... :(

+1 TVropro. And that was even with low-power WSPY-LP at 3 kw 20 miles to my southeast interfering with it! Now, I get a *constant* low signal on it, even during the daytime. Can't lock it, but a guy a mile south of me can lock it for a few seconds every minute or two during the day, again all of it with no tropo. Fantastic signal. Can't get WNDU due to Fox's 900 kw WQRF-DT out here. WSJV mixes with WTMJ from Milwaukee, and 48 is stomped on by MeToo here in Chicago.

Thanks for the report. You did bring up something interesting I almost always get a constant signal in the bad area (DTT-900) on WSBT. There can be no tropo and it gets up to mid scale and locks quite a bit. I don't know what they did but there doing it well. I get WSJV in the bad area when conditions (tropo) favor South Bend but never got a lock yet, (I keep trying). WNDU needs a little help from mother nature but locks solid with it. According to tv fool im 80 miles or so as the crow flies from the South Bend transmitters. My homemade Frankenclone is only up about 23 feet shooting between two tree's pointed at South Bend.

When tropo runs to the north I get quite a bit from Milwaukee. So far I got 4,6,10,18,36.55,& 58. These on on my old RS U-75 I put up for Channel 23 when they went to METV. It's up about 28 feet. Soon as I get the chance I will replace that with a RS U-120 I got for like $4.00 a few years back when they were closing them out. Ought to fair better since it has 4 driven elements vs 2 with more reflectors and directors. I decided to forget the rotor idea for now. I may point the U-120 a bit more NW so it can favor not only Milwaukee but Rockford & Madison too. Don't know how tight the beamwidth is on it though.

Kal speaks up in this one:

http://www.broadcastingcable.com/article/295386-DTV_A_Few_Tweaks_Left.php

Others that are good reads:

http://www.tvtechnology.com/article/82640

http://www.tvtechnology.com/article/82646

WLS 7 Analog used to be the easiest station to get in dupage where i lived. (along with WGN, just as good). Sad to see they are having all these issues. I am no TV expert, but why in the world did they stay at 7 for digital? Wouldn't it just be easier to stay at UHF? People who where already prepared for dtv would not have to make any change. That would have been easier!

On a second note, since we are using digital tv now, how hard would it be for nbc, fox, or any station to start a new tv station? If NBC wanted msnbc, fox with fox news or fox business news, or even abc with abc family to gain more marketshare, couldn't they get new channel space and have 3-4 non-hd channels for ota viewers? Even if they ran localized ad's or even different content. Is that asking a lot? I guess they would have less bargaining power with cable companies but maybe they can make it a local channel and change the fcc rules so it's a must carry!

Enough of my thoughts..

Yesterday I added a preamp (AP-8700) to my setup. So now I've got a terrestrial digital V21 on the roof, preamp, and 50' RG6 going to a TiVO HD. I noticed a few % increase on the signals but it was not enough to make WLS lock reliably.

WYCC 20.1 is barely showing up at all on the signal meter. I'm 35mi west of the transmitters -- is anyone out here having success getting 20.1?



I'm on the East side of Batavia and I'm locking everything 80-100%. I'm using a V15 antenna. I do have a signal booster I picked up off of ebay a few years ago (in an attempt to get WBBM) and unpluged one day last week and I did lose WLS, I didn't check signal strength.

On the night of the switchover I was picking up a station from the Quad cities and on good nights I've been picking up a few from Rockford, and one station from South Bend. And that's with the antenna pointing pretty much dead east.

Good luck, and keep us posted.

WLS 7 Analog used to be the easiest station to get in dupage where i lived. (along with WGN, just as good). Sad to see they are having all these issues. I am no TV expert, but why in the world did they stay at 7 for digital? Wouldn't it just be easier to stay at UHF? People who where already prepared for dtv would not have to make any change. That would have been easier!

On a second note, since we are using digital tv now, how hard would it be for nbc, fox, or any station to start a new tv station? If NBC wanted msnbc, fox with fox news or fox business news, or even abc with abc family to gain more marketshare, couldn't they get new channel space and have 3-4 non-hd channels for ota viewers? Even if they ran localized ad's or even different content. Is that asking a lot? I guess they would have less bargaining power with cable companies but maybe they can make it a local channel and change the fcc rules so it's a must carry!

Enough of my thoughts..

Why did they stay at 7 for digital? One, cost savings. Rather than go 500 kilowatts for UHF, they went under 5,000 for VHF. My thought is that if WLS gets 20 or 30 kw of power, they can get a fine signal. Ditto for WBBM.
(That is to say, in buildings. using a good attic antenna, I'm getting both just fine). But, as I found out a few days ago, both signals go to pot when storms are around.

Remember, they still have their UHF channel 52 transmitter. I wonder if someday it gets re-used on a different channel? I'm doubtful, but...
it wouldn't be hard to re-tune.

The cable channels wouldn't want to go OTA. No chance in Hades except a national emergency like they did on 9/11 with CNN on WGN. Onthe other hand, the FCC has frozen all new (with 2 exceptions) DTV station applications. Once that is lifted, I betcha someone takes channel 3 or 4 here.
Then you can claim market coverage and for 4 kilowatts, get cablecoverage over all of northeast Illinois and northwest Indiana. Oh, I see that one coming...

I am no TV expert, but why in the world did they stay at 7 for digital?

Corporate decision by ABC/Disney; all but one of their O&O stations did the same and stayed on their original analog VHF frequency.

Onthe other hand, the FCC has frozen all new (with 2 exceptions) DTV station applications. Once that is lifted, I betcha someone takes channel 3 or 4 here. Then you can claim market coverage and for 4 kilowatts, get cablecoverage over all of northeast Illinois and northwest Indiana. Oh, I see that one coming...Channel 4 is already taken here, just not very enthusiastically.

Onthe other hand, the FCC has frozen all new (with 2 exceptions) DTV station applications. Once that is lifted, I betcha someone takes channel 3 or 4 here.
Then you can claim market coverage and for 4 kilowatts, get cablecoverage over all of northeast Illinois and northwest Indiana. Oh, I see that one coming...

That would have played havoc with my ch 3 an 4 in house modulated channels until last week. I built two single channel tunable traps for 3 and 4 out of a piece of enameled wire, a capacitor and a trimmer capacitor. Gives a great notch with decent attenuation. Sure beats buying one made for $75.00 :)

......since we are using digital tv now, how hard would it be for nbc, fox, or any station to start a new tv station? If NBC wanted msnbc, fox with fox news or fox business news, or even abc with abc family to gain more marketshare, couldn't they get new channel space and have 3-4 non-hd channels for ota viewers? Even if they ran localized ad's or even different content. Is that asking a lot? I guess they would have less bargaining power with cable companies but maybe they can make it a local channel and change the fcc rules so it's a must carry! Enough of my thoughts..

yes, you're right...the local broadcasters now could easily put cable channels on their new digital sub-channels....and that would would be a very good thing for us antenna people....i'd love to see it happen....BUT that will never ever ever ever happen because of the ridiculously corrupt & greedy nature of the criminal monopolist cable tv industry....any of the very few 'independent' cable channels who dared to even think about being broadcast for 'free' on ota would instantly draw the wrath of the giant cable crooks like COMCAST and TIME-WARNER....COMCAST, TIME-WARNER and the other huge mso's would, at the very least, threaten all kinds of economic punishment, dropping those channels from their cable line-ups in all their markets and worse....

the cable industry in this country is in the signal shortage business....they meter out as little as possible for absolute maximum dollars...they absolutely will never tolerate any kind of competition....

example> VIACOM, who owns MTV and VH-1, used to require that every cable company who carried MTV (which means virtually every cable system in this country) sign a contract stating that those cable systems can NOT carry any other music video channels...(anyone remember an early music video channel called HIT VIDEO USA? they had no 'incestuous insider type cable clout' investors to grease the skids and they dared to compete with VIACOM/MTV/VH-1.... they didn't last long!)

that kind of crap is blatantly monopolistic and illegal as hell but they did it anyway and got away with it somehow.....the fcc is pathetic for allowing this and many other similar things to happen....VIACOM ceo sumner redstone and all his cohort criminal managers should be in jail for that alone! along with john malone, john sie and many other monopolist cable crooks!

and to make things worse and even more complicated our totally impotent & ineffective fcc allowed many of the big cable players to buy major pieces of each other over the years and that allows them to control competition in many other illegal ways....

CHICAGO was one of the last major cities to get cable service...why? because many of the chicago alderman spent years milking bribes and payola from the cable company lobbyists who wanted to apply for a city cable franchise....TCI, being the biggest crook of the time, finally paid the most bribes and got it....eventually TCI was bought by ATT who then sold it all to the 'already too big' COMCAST....and all along the way cable companies like MEDIA GENERAL and dozens of others gobbled each other up in mergers ....all this gave undue huge power to the resulting giant cable operators....and on the programming side, channels like CNN were sold to mso's like TIME-WARNER, etc etc...i could go on and on with many more examples.....

the fcc should never have allowed any of those major mergers and/or acquisitions....its an emormous cluster f*** thats led to the huge mess we have today in the pay tv industry in the usa....its all very sad!

ok...enough of my rant....sorry to get so off topic....

(anyone remember an early music video channel called VIDEO HITS ONE? they had no 'incestuous insider type cable clout' investors to grease the skids and they dared to compete with VIACOM/MTV/VH-1.... they didn't last long!

Umm, VIDEO HITS ONE == VH1.

Umm, VIDEO HITS ONE == VH1.

wow.....yes, youre right!...i got the name wrong...that channel was called HIT VIDEO USA, i think! they were in texas....its been a lot of years....sorry!

Umm, VIDEO HITS ONE == VH1.

It WAS called Hit Video USA, and it WAS in Texas, and it was HILARIOUS! Except for MTV's Remote Control, they had a lock on funny shows mixed in with videos.

They didn't go broke, far from it. The owner sold it to MTV/VH1 for a bazillion dollars and now has a new channel called ME TV. I smell a lawsuit!
http://www.metelevision.com/aboutme.php

Any news on when ABC is going to increase their signal strength? Still at 66%, still breaking up.

WGBO-DT is off the air. Maintenance? Transmitter blew up? If it's primetime and still off the air, it's the latter...

Corporate decision by ABC/Disney; all but one of their O&O stations did the same and stayed on their original analog VHF frequency.

The exception is KFSN in Fresno, CA, which returned to their UHF analog channel (30). The other 9 ABC O&O's were on VHF for analog. WPVI/Philadelphia was forced back to Low-VHF 6 due to this policy. It hasn't been pretty.

WGBO-DT is off the air. Maintenance? Transmitter blew up? If it's primetime and still off the air, it's the latter...It's barely an hour since Gilbert posted that, and I'm receiving 66.1 with no trouble, same content as 60.2.

Onthe other hand, the FCC has frozen all new (with 2 exceptions) DTV station applications. Once that is lifted, I betcha someone takes channel 3 or 4 here.
Then you can claim market coverage and for 4 kilowatts, get cablecoverage over all of northeast Illinois and northwest Indiana. Oh, I see that one coming...

I can see that happening all over the country. "We don't care about having any OTA viewers, all we care about is must carry!" Of course, it will be better disguised than this. KJWY and KVNV want to move 2 and 3 to NYC and Philly. I seriously doubt they are too worried about people being able to receive their signals with an antenna.

This is another reason we should have removed 2-6 or at least 2-4. Oh, the gamesmanship.

Also, let's not forget about White Space Devices. There's just too much spectrum out there! :rolleyes:

ok so weird happening tonight. I've lost over half of my channels! I had all of them just fine earlier today yet now I get nothing on some of them. Is it possible my amplifier burned out? Or my antenna is no longer functioning properly? Both are in the attic, which of course are being subjected to lots of heat. The amp is particularly hot...

I'm using a RS budget antenna and leftover comcast amp...

Could it also be bad atmospheric conditions?

Channels missing:
WITI
WLS
WMVS
WVTV
WYCC
WCGV
WCIU
WMVT
WCPX
WBME
WXFT
WGBO

Channels w/great signal:
WMAQ
WFLD
WPWR
WPXE

I'd love to know, stwhoges...also, did they put a preamp on there? You may do considerably better with on there. You aren't picking up WMAQ-DT 29 (5.X), or WGN-DT 19 (9.X)?Do you mean an amplifier on there antenna? If so, yes, they put one on there.

Both 5.X and 9.X have been booming out where I'm at. Both of them are up there very strongly, "Good" on the Zenith DTT-901 and for the Apex DT250, I get numbers around 84 or more on both channels, but I do know that WGN is one of the stronger signals around, so it's like if you can't get WGN, you're up a creek lol.

Also, since my last report, 60.1, 60.2, and 66.1 have been pretty good lately on both our converter boxes. It's been near the word "Good" on our Zenith model and in the upper 70's and through the 80's on the Apex model, so I don't know what changed, but it's been a pretty strong signal lately! As for the low power of WWME, still not getting it much at all, so that part hasn't changed really.

ok so weird happening tonight. I've lost over half of my channels! I had all of them just fine earlier today yet now I get nothing on some of them. Is it possible my amplifier burned out? Or my antenna is no longer functioning properly? Both are in the attic, which of course are being subjected to lots of heat. The amp is particularly hot...

I'm using a RS budget antenna and leftover comcast amp...

Could it also be bad atmospheric conditions?

Channels missing:
WITI
WLS
WMVS
WVTV
WYCC
WCGV
WCIU
WMVT
WCPX
WBME
WXFT
WGBO

Channels w/great signal:
WMAQ
WFLD
WPWR
WPXE

I'd guess that it might be the atmosphere tonight especially how humid it is. Now about the am being hot, I guess that could be a cause for your channel loss, but I'm not sure about that, as I don't know a huge bunch about amps getting really warm. But it easy could be the "weather", since it's so humid out.

Were there any problems with WCIU last night around 10pm? On Comcast, the main and subchannels were dead. The analog on 6 had a freeze frame, and the digitals were blank. There was a signal, but no data.

yeah I was hoping it was just atmospheric. At the same time, it tells me maybe I need to upgrade my setup so I don't lose channels so easily. I'm getting more channels now but still missing some:

WTMJ
WGN
WMVS
WVTV
WCGV
WVCY
WMVT
WBME
WXFT

Smaller list than before, but still missing some key stations :(

Were there any problems with WCIU last night around 10pm?I don't know, but there seems to be one now. It's not coming in at all.

Guess I'll have to watch the Sox game on my godawful Dish SD. :(

I don't know, but there seems to be one now. It's not coming in at all.

Guess I'll have to watch the Sox game on my godawful Dish SD. :(

Normal reception of WCIU on my TV...

Someone on here (too lazy to page back) was not happy that W25CL was interfering with WCGV Milwaukee, also on 25. No worries, mate...WCGV engineering just complained to the FCC and now they have to move. But to where?

Exhibit 1
Description: EXHIBIT 1 -- DISPLACEMENT

APPLICANT FILES FOR DISPLACEMENT DUE TO CO CHANNEL INTERFERENCE WITHIN FACILITY'S PROTECTED CONTOUR FROM FULL POWER FACILITY WCGV-DT.


To channel *2*! :eek: at 300 watts! :D

That'll go far. Maybe down Wacker for a mile, and then... :p

Hey Tom! Found a buyer for your stuff on Hancock. I only take a 2% finder's fee! :D

Someone on here (too lazy to page back) was not happy that W25CL was interfering with WCGV Milwaukee, also on 25.

APPLICANT FILES FOR DISPLACEMENT DUE TO CO CHANNEL INTERFERENCE WITHIN FACILITY'S PROTECTED CONTOUR FROM FULL POWER FACILITY WCGV-DT.

To channel *2*! :eek: at 300 watts! :D

That'll go far. Maybe down Wacker for a mile, and then... :p

Hey Tom! Found a buyer for your stuff on Hancock. I only take a 2% finder's fee! :D

Why are they even bothering? Almost nobody could pick up WBBM on RF3 at over ten times the power.

It seems to me they would be better off as subchannel on WJYS/62 (and I would think WJYS would be happy to get some extra revenue from leasing them the subchannel).

Why are they even bothering? Almost nobody could pick up WBBM on RF3 at over ten times the power.

It seems to me they would be better off as subchannel on WJYS/62 (and I would think WJYS would be happy to get some extra revenue from leasing them the subchannel).

If WCGV complained about interference, why doesn't WISN complain as well with Channel 34 and force them to move. I'm guessing more people in the northern suburbs would rather have an ABC affiliate for backup instead of the stuff 34 currently shows and also would be another station for people to DX.

Were there any problems with WCIU last night around 10pm? On Comcast, the main and subchannels were dead. The analog on 6 had a freeze frame, and the digitals were blank. There was a signal, but no data.

Out of town at the moment so I have no idea if anything was going on. Probably Comcast related issue.

Someone on here (too lazy to page back) was not happy that W25CL was interfering with WCGV Milwaukee, also on 25. No worries, mate...WCGV engineering just complained to the FCC and now they have to move. But to where?

Exhibit 1
Description: EXHIBIT 1 -- DISPLACEMENT

APPLICANT FILES FOR DISPLACEMENT DUE TO CO CHANNEL INTERFERENCE WITHIN FACILITY'S PROTECTED CONTOUR FROM FULL POWER FACILITY WCGV-DT.


To channel *2*! :eek: at 300 watts! :D

That'll go far. Maybe down Wacker for a mile, and then... :p

Hey Tom! Found a buyer for your stuff on Hancock. I only take a 2% finder's fee! :D

Hey are you talking about that low power station on 25 on the AON building (W25DW was the call I think)? If so, GREAT! That garbage belongs on low-vhf, since no one is watching anyways.

Was able to lock WKOW-DT for the first time on RF26 last night around 4:00am since 26 analog is off - great signal from my location on the lake. I know you guys far NW should be able to get this often, those in the City itself should be able to also if your up high enough.

Hey are you talking about that low power station on 25 on the AON building (W25DW was the call I think)? If so, GREAT! That garbage belongs on low-vhf, since no one is watching anyways.



If that low power station on 25 is interfering with Milwaukee maybe they will change there antenna pattern to null out to the north, kinda like DTV-4 does to the NW.

Someone on here (too lazy to page back) was not happy that W25CL was interfering with WCGV Milwaukee, also on 25. No worries, mate...WCGV engineering just complained to the FCC and now they have to move. But to where?

Exhibit 1
Description: EXHIBIT 1 -- DISPLACEMENT

APPLICANT FILES FOR DISPLACEMENT DUE TO CO CHANNEL INTERFERENCE WITHIN FACILITY'S PROTECTED CONTOUR FROM FULL POWER FACILITY WCGV-DT.


To channel *2*! :eek: at 300 watts! :D

That'll go far. Maybe down Wacker for a mile, and then... :p

Hey Tom! Found a buyer for your stuff on Hancock. I only take a 2% finder's fee! :D


GOOD! I hate to hear they will have to get new equipment which is expensive, but the FCC should have never approved that channel in the first place. They made some bonehead channel assignments. WOOD-Grand Rapids/WLS-Chicago/WPBN-Cadillac is a classic example. That WCGV/W25DW was another. But, we did avoid the mess on RF46 when MeTV decided to go to another channel. 46 is used in Milwaukee by WDJT.

Regarding WISN... oddly enough it has been coming in better since June 12th. I used to almost never get it. Now I almost always get it. Why? Perhaps there is something to that 2nd adjacent channel interference or they moved their antenna up. Not sure.

Ironicly enough the move to RF2 might actually INCREASE their audience. That VHF -lo stuff propagates farther with less power. They could even go up to 1kW and have similar coverage to what WBBM-DT used to have, which isn't bad considering it's a shopping channel mainly aimed at the immediate Chicago area.

If that low power station on 25 is interfering with Milwaukee maybe they will change there antenna pattern to null out to the north, kinda like DTV-4 does to the NW.

doesn't help. they already do that. you can't have a tight enough null at that height and power. they'd need to drop their power by at least 3 dB for that to work.

BTW, what's the deal with WJYS? Did they ever jack up their power and change to nearly omnidirectional pattern as planned? Doesn't seem like it.

I ditched cable for OTA last summer. I was getting ok reception, but not great (e.g. no WBBM). I put off spending a lot of time trying to improve my reception until after June 12th, knowing that things were going to change. Well now it's after June 12th and I would greatly appreciate some advice to improve things.

I installed a Channel Master CM 3010 Stealthtenna with a Channel Master CM 3038 amplifier in the attic of my 2 story house in Lombard, 20.5 miles from the Sears Tower. I tapped into existing wiring running through the attic for cable.

Plugging the TV and converter box directly into the antenna I got all the channels I could want with great signal strength: 70-80%. I got almost the same results in coaxial outlets in two upstairs rooms, losing a few percentage points.

Unfortunately, the result in my first floor living room was not so good. Connecting to the coaxial outlet there the signal had degraded such that my signal strength dropped to between 15-35%. I bought a Radio Shack Bi-directional TV amplifier with a gain of 10dB. This helped, but even with the amplifier, I don't get all of the channels all of the time. (WLS is usually a problem...surprise surprise..., but so is WFLD.) The signal strength increased to 30-50%. From the attic to the living room coaxial outlet I am guessing that there are 50-70 feet of cable. That's just a guess and I could be way off -- it's tough to follow the path.

My very unprofessional opinion is that the antenna works fine but the signal is having to travel too far. Does anyone have a suggestion as to how to improve things? I'm confused about amplification and whether I've got a good setup or not. Should I replace the Radio Shack aplifier with a pre-amp? Does the fact that the antenna is already amplified affect anything? I would really prefer to leave the antenna in the attic, and the space available in the attic precludes a larger antenna.

I would greatly appreciate advice from someone with more expertise.

Thanks.

They could even go up to 1kW and have similar coverage to what WBBM-DT used to have, which isn't bad considering it's a shopping channel mainly aimed at the immediate Chicago area.

The FCC power limit is 0.3 kW for low-VHF LPTV digital signals.

That could change, but at the moment, it's 0.3 kW.

- Trip

I ditched cable for OTA last summer..... I installed a Channel Master CM 3010 Stealthtenna with a Channel Master CM 3038 amplifier in the attic of my 2 story house in Lombard, 20.5 miles from the Sears Tower. I tapped into existing wiring running through the attic for cable. .....Plugging the TV and converter box directly into the antenna I got all the channels I could want with great signal strength: 70-80%. I got almost the same results in coaxial outlets in two upstairs rooms, losing a few percentage points.....Unfortunately, the result in my first floor living room was not so good.....From the attic to the living room coaxial outlet I am guessing that there are 50-70 feet of cable. ....My very unprofessional opinion is that the antenna works fine but the signal is having to travel too far. Does anyone have a suggestion as to how to improve things? I'm confused about amplification and whether I've got a good setup or not....I would greatly appreciate advice from someone with more expertise. Thanks.

first off, good for u for cancelling your cable service!

overall your antenna system sounds fine....and since 2 of your tv's work well i bet u only have a minor problem like a bad connector or splitter somewhere in the path....u'll have to track down the whole path and check each point....i bet u'll find an ez fix....it could be as simple as a single loose or corroded connector....

100 feet of coax is not too long to cause a problem, in most cases....

dont add any more amps....your antenna is already amplified...in fact, try it without the amp...amps overload easily....

Normal reception of WCIU on my TV...It started coming in here just after I posted.

Hey are you talking about that low power station on 25 on the AON building (W25DW was the call I think)? If so, GREAT! That garbage belongs on low-vhf, since no one is watching anyways.

Was able to lock WKOW-DT for the first time on RF26 last night around 4:00am since 26 analog is off - great signal from my location on the lake. I know you guys far NW should be able to get this often, those in the City itself should be able to also if your up high enough.

They changed it to W25CL, but yep, that's the one, on AON. They'll head for a measly 300 watts (as Trip noted, the maximum power they can have) on channel 2. Evidently, the owner, Marcia Cohen, has no clue how bad of a decision that is. That signal will get destroyed by E-skip, atmospheric noise, blah blah blah etc etc etc constantly.

I ditched cable for OTA last summer. I was getting ok reception, but not great (e.g. no WBBM). I put off spending a lot of time trying to improve my reception until after June 12th, knowing that things were going to change. Well now it's after June 12th and I would greatly appreciate some advice to improve things.

I installed a Channel Master CM 3010 Stealthtenna with a Channel Master CM 3038 amplifier in the attic of my 2 story house in Lombard, 20.5 miles from the Sears Tower. I tapped into existing wiring running through the attic for cable.

Plugging the TV and converter box directly into the antenna I got all the channels I could want with great signal strength: 70-80%. I got almost the same results in coaxial outlets in two upstairs rooms, losing a few percentage points.

Unfortunately, the result in my first floor living room was not so good. Connecting to the coaxial outlet there the signal had degraded such that my signal strength dropped to between 15-35%. I bought a Radio Shack Bi-directional TV amplifier with a gain of 10dB. This helped, but even with the amplifier, I don't get all of the channels all of the time. (WLS is usually a problem...surprise surprise..., but so is WFLD.) The signal strength increased to 30-50%. From the attic to the living room coaxial outlet I am guessing that there are 50-70 feet of cable. That's just a guess and I could be way off -- it's tough to follow the path.

My very unprofessional opinion is that the antenna works fine but the signal is having to travel too far. Does anyone have a suggestion as to how to improve things? I'm confused about amplification and whether I've got a good setup or not. Should I replace the Radio Shack aplifier with a pre-amp? Does the fact that the antenna is already amplified affect anything? I would really prefer to leave the antenna in the attic, and the space available in the attic precludes a larger antenna.

I would greatly appreciate advice from someone with more expertise.

Thanks.

It may be an unprofessional opinion, but I think you have come to the right conclusion. If you are getting good signal on the other TV's, you're definitely losing a lot of signal in-line on the cable.

So, I'll ask:

What is the cable type? If it is RG-6, you're good. If it is RG-59, it's of the devil. ;) Replace it with RG-6. It should say right on the cables what type it is. Anything RG-59, replace if possible, and that should do it.

If it is RG-6 cable end-to-end, then you need more gain. I would take out the 3038 amp and replace it with a ChannelMaster 7777 preamp. That will give you at least another 8-12 dB of gain across the board,
and every 3 dB gained is a 50% or so signal increase.

And welcome to the forum, IlliniGuy99. We're glad you're here!

They changed it to W25CL, but yep, that's the one, on AON. They'll head for a measly 300 watts (as Trip noted, the maximum power they can have) on channel 2. Evidently, the owner, Marcia Cohen, has no clue how bad of a decision that is. That signal will get destroyed by E-skip, atmospheric noise, blah blah blah etc etc etc constantly.

I can imagine how e-skip will take it out even close to the transmitter. Used to mess with WBBM with all there power in the city.

I am disappointed. I can no longer get WLS. I can get CBS at about 40% now though so I guess I have to take the good with the bad. Seems like numerous people are having issues picking up WLS.

I'm west of you out at the Eastern edge of Aurora. I've got a medium distance VHF Low antenna (Antennas Direct V4 MkII) and UHF antenna (Antennas Direct DB4) in my attic feeding a Channel Master 7777 pre-amp. Pre-transition, 2.1 broke up quite a bit. Post-transition, I'm getting a solid signal. 7.1 is definitely weaker, but still good enough for solid signal as well. So, with a bit of tweaking, or a little better antenna, you should be fine as well.

Dan (Woj...)

Well, the digital transition has been a bust for me here in West Aurora using an indoor antenna. All I can get is 26,32,50 and some Spanish language channels. Prior to the transition I could pick up everything but channel 2.

I thought I might be able to give Comcast the boot after the transition. Disappointed that it has in fact reduced my reception!

I'm on the East edge of Aurora, and I get all the Chicago digital stations. However, I've got a decent medium distance UHF/VHF antenna setup in my attic feeding a Channel Master 7777 pre-amp. You've got to be almost 40 miles from the transmitters. Expecting to get everything on a simple indoor antenna is pretty unrealistic. You don't say what you are using, but if you must stay with an indoor antenna, I'd try finding a place for a Winegard GS2200. It's an outdoor "wing" style antenna, but could be put indoors with a little imagination. The Winegard GS3000 is a real indoor antenna, and that might work as well. Lastly, I'd buy some extra co-ax cable and move the antenna to the best window/wall/upstairs location you can find.

Good luck.

Dan (Woj...)

BTW, what's the deal with WJYS? Did they ever jack up their power and change to nearly omnidirectional pattern as planned? Doesn't seem like it.

Probably later this summer. I haven't heard officially, but most just wanted to get through the analog shutdown first before they boosted power (unless they changed channels). WGN, WCIU, WCPX, WJYS, WXFT, and WGBO all have to do work to get to their final post-transition configurations and authorized power.

If WCGV complained about interference, why doesn't WISN complain as well with Channel 34 and force them to move. I'm guessing more people in the northern suburbs would rather have an ABC affiliate for backup instead of the stuff 34 currently shows and also would be another station for people to DX.

That's up to the individual station to decide. So far, I haven't heard people up north complain about 34. They did about 25. But then again, 34 up in Milwaukee is now running 1 million watts. 25 was not. That makes a difference in overcoming interference. That's not to say that people aren't complaining...but I haven't heard of any yet from up there.

Last night my V21 rooftop antenna was taken down replaced with the Winegard HD7697P. I'm still using the AP-8700 preamp and there is ~50' of RG6 to the TiVo HD unit. Wow! All of the chicago stations are coming in at >95%! Granted, no storms in the area but it was a HUGE improvement over the V21 antenna! The problem stations (2.1, 7.x, and 20.x) are solid now. Thanks for the suggestions everyone, the setup seems really robust now. So, new antenna and preamp $150 but what is that, like 2 months of cable? Not complaining.

So last night, magically the stations I reported lost have been found. Must've been atmospheric conditions, since I haven't changed a thing. Now in the daytime, some are lost again. I'm guessing that signals are harder to pick up in the daytime than night? Solar interference? Looks like it's time for me to upgrade my amp and possibly antenna!

Last night my V21 rooftop antenna was taken down replaced with the Winegard HD7697P. I'm still using the AP-8700 preamp and there is ~50' of RG6 to the TiVo HD unit. Wow! All of the chicago stations are coming in at >95%! Granted, no storms in the area but it was a HUGE improvement over the V21 antenna! The problem stations (2.1, 7.x, and 20.x) are solid now. Thanks for the suggestions everyone, the setup seems really robust now. So, new antenna and preamp $150 but what is that, like 2 months of cable? Not complaining.

You got it, sir...now watch for DX'ing this summer...Madison, South Bend and MIlwaukee have been frequent visitors to my antennas.

Oh, and a reminder...at the end of the day on Friday, June 26...possibly at 11:59 PM...WFLD-TV's "the ship has sunk" video loop will go away, and the CW network in Madison should start booming in on DX from time to time.

BTW, are you getting low power channel 39 (23.X) out there now?

I ditched cable for OTA last summer. I was getting ok reception, but not great (e.g. no WBBM). I put off spending a lot of time trying to improve my reception until after June 12th, knowing that things were going to change. Well now it's after June 12th and I would greatly appreciate some advice to improve things.

I installed a Channel Master CM 3010 Stealthtenna with a Channel Master CM 3038 amplifier in the attic of my 2 story house in Lombard, 20.5 miles from the Sears Tower. I tapped into existing wiring running through the attic for cable.

Plugging the TV and converter box directly into the antenna I got all the channels I could want with great signal strength: 70-80%. I got almost the same results in coaxial outlets in two upstairs rooms, losing a few percentage points.

Unfortunately, the result in my first floor living room was not so good. Connecting to the coaxial outlet there the signal had degraded such that my signal strength dropped to between 15-35%. I bought a Radio Shack Bi-directional TV amplifier with a gain of 10dB. This helped, but even with the amplifier, I don't get all of the channels all of the time. (WLS is usually a problem...surprise surprise..., but so is WFLD.) The signal strength increased to 30-50%. From the attic to the living room coaxial outlet I am guessing that there are 50-70 feet of cable. That's just a guess and I could be way off -- it's tough to follow the path.

My very unprofessional opinion is that the antenna works fine but the signal is having to travel too far. Does anyone have a suggestion as to how to improve things? I'm confused about amplification and whether I've got a good setup or not. Should I replace the Radio Shack aplifier with a pre-amp? Does the fact that the antenna is already amplified affect anything? I would really prefer to leave the antenna in the attic, and the space available in the attic precludes a larger antenna.

I would greatly appreciate advice from someone with more expertise.

Thanks.

I live less than 5 miles east of you in Elmhurst, and have the same antenna / pre-amp, but mounted on the roof. I'm getting 100% signal on all the majors, and 90%+ on everything else with about a 75 foot run of RG6 to my main TV. After the initial split, and another 60 feet of RG6, I have another splitter, and I'm still getting 100% on both legs of that split. Considering that one of the splits is running another 50 feet on ancient RG59 back upstairs to the bedroom, I'm amazed. I was thinking about replacing the RG59, but it's an ugly job through the plumbing riser, and I subscribe to the "if it ain't broke, don't fix it" philosophy.

If you don't find a bad connection (check the back side of your wall plates), I would suggest either mounting it outside (if possible), or else punching a hole in your attic wall and running a new length of RG6 to the first floor. If you put a splitter in the attic before the new cable run, be sure to plug in the 3038 power block before the split, or else make sure that your splitter can pass DC voltage.

The beauty of this antenna is it's light weight. You really don't need a tripod. You can mount it with a J-mount, strap it to an eave or a chimney, or even a plumbing vent. The downside may be it's durability, although mine held up fine during last Friday's microburst. We'll see what happens when we get some heavy snow or freezing rain.

Is there by chance that WWME-LD might get a power increase to say 15KW. I noticed there are no other 39's in Milwaukee, Madison, Rockford, or South Bend so it seems pretty wide open. If WWME could get 15 KW, hopefully that would help in the fringe areas in Kane, Lake, Mchenry, Kankakee county as well as Lake & Porter counties in Indiana.Stay tuned.............

I'll be anxious to see if this happens and see if this does happen, if I'll get it out in NWI too.

Funny how everyone says that they're getting 2 a little better than 7 - it's generally been the opposite for me.

Last night my V21 rooftop antenna was taken down replaced with the Winegard HD7697P. I'm still using the AP-8700 preamp and there is ~50' of RG6 to the TiVo HD unit. Wow! All of the chicago stations are coming in at >95%!Excellent. Based on that, I think I'm going to get either that or the 7698P myself.

I was by a neighbors house the other day with rabbit ears. Channel 7 was breaking up occasionally. I receive it at 93 quality on my outside antenna. So even though were both approx 8 miles ATCF from Sears the outside antenna makes a world of difference. I guess with digital it don't care where your at it just want's tons of gain.

...The beauty of this antenna is it's light weight. You really don't need a tripod. You can mount it with a J-mount, strap it to an eave or a chimney, or even a plumbing vent. The downside may be it's durability, although mine held up fine during last Friday's microburst. We'll see what happens when we get some heavy snow or freezing rain.I have installed several HD7694P antennas. The first one was installed last winter, before our area was hit with the worst ice storm in history (up to 2" on tree limbs). There were a lot of destroyed antennas around here, but the 7694 was undamaged.

I also J-mounts, when possible. The HD769x antennas are great, IMO.

Jeez - what a day. First Farrah Fawcett, now Michael Jackson is near-death (if not dead already).

Jeez - what a day. First Farrah Fawcett, now Michael Jackson is near-death (if not dead already).According to what someone posted over at sitcomsonline.com (Here's a link if you'd like to see it for yourself - http://www.sitcomsonline.com/boards/showthread.php?p=4231377#post4231377), "ABC will have a special on Michael Jackson's passing tonight at 9PM ET/PT, followed by the previously announced Farrah Fawcett special (slated to air before she had passed) at 10PM ET/PT." ABC will be busy tonight trying to get all that stuff together at the last minute, I'd think.

Excellent. Based on that, I think I'm going to get either that or the 7698P myself.

I think that's the new one we just had installed, the 7698P, and I get the Chicago channels pretty much all booming in, signal wise.

I was by a neighbors house the other day with rabbit ears. Channel 7 was breaking up occasionally. I receive it at 93 quality on my outside antenna. So even though were both approx 8 miles ATCF from Sears the outside antenna makes a world of difference. I guess with digital it don't care where your at it just want's tons of gain.

I trust that you showed your neighbor and/or experimented as to how to optimally use rabbit ears for channel 7.

Anyhow, I thought WLS-DT's temporary power increase was approved and that should help those with inside antennas.

I trust that you showed your neighbor and/or experimented as to how to optimally use rabbit ears for channel 7.

Anyhow, I thought WLS-DT's temporary power increase was approved and that should help those with inside antennas.But when will it happen? That's the big question I have.

Last night my V21 rooftop antenna was taken down replaced with the Winegard HD7697P....... it was a HUGE improvement over the V21 antenna! The problem stations (2.1, 7.x, and 20.x) are solid now.......

congrats! but i am curious....so we know where u came from.....what exactly is a 'V21' antenna?

congrats! but i am curious....so we know where u came from.....what exactly is a 'V21' antenna?

Yes what is that?

Yes what is that?

http://www.solidsignal.com/prod_display.asp?prod=AD-V21

That one. The picture reveals some deficiencies. First, no UHF reflector...the small (size and number) of rods (directors) and the dipole do not work well for long range or high gain UHF reception. There's only 4 arms (one on each side) for VHF-LO (channels 2-6) and another 4 for VHF-HI (channels 7-13). That, too, doesn't work well. Two rods are the dipoles which receives the signal; the other two are directors, which direct the signal towards the dipoles. I'd recommend that out to 30 miles, without being in a river valley or low area.

Contrast that antenna with the Winegard HD7697:

http://www.solidsignal.com/prod_display.asp?PROD=HD7697P&xzoom=Large#xview

Here we see 12 directors and 2 dipoles for VHF-HI channels 7-13, the longer rods in back, and numerous directors varying in size to pick up the entire UHF band relatively evenly with a corner reflector (or "Pac-Man" as I call it)...adding an additional 50% (~3 dB) of signal gain, all directing signal towards the respective dipoles. The end result is predictable: bigger IS better with antennas, in terms of the number of well-placed directors, and directionality is proportional to signal gain. Every combination antenna has a receive peak, due to the compromise of picking up signals across a wide area of frequency spectrum; the best are fairly even across the band. The Winegard is representative of such a case. On channels 7-13, the max peak is 1.1 dB of gain more than the lowest channel gain. On channels 14-51, it's 3 dB, but considering the broad spectrum it's covering, that's not bad.

In "english", it means that with a much higher number of receive rods on the antenna, you have much more signal gain. And Acteng can see the end result quite well. With that outdoor antenna and that preamp, every signal should be pretty much pegged out...and it is.

I see some good DX opportunites each night from Sunday through Tuesday (June 28-30), with high pressure and a temperature inversion over us. Acteng, those evenings after dark, you might want to do a channel scan and see what you can get. Choose "Milwaukee" or "South Bend" as a secondary market, and I'll bet you get at least one station from each one.

sebenste,
I wonder if Winegard will eventually retune the "769" antennas to channels 7 thru 51?

Yes what is that?

The V21 is something that Antenna's Direct (they do have some good products) should be ashamed to be selling.

sebenste,
I wonder if Winegard will eventually retune the "769" antennas to channels 7 thru 51?

It's certainly possible; I don't know. Frankly, I don't think it matters significantly. 7-51 is such a broad frequency sprectrum that lopping off the top 3% won't cause a significant improvement over what you have now.

The V21 is something that Antenna's Direct (they do have some good products) should be ashamed to be selling.

No, but to call it a high gain antenna is flat wrong, IMO.

I trust that you showed your neighbor and/or experimented as to how to optimally use rabbit ears for channel 7.

Anyhow, I thought WLS-DT's temporary power increase was approved and that should help those with inside antennas.

Only for testing. They raise the power for 5-10 minutes at a crack, testing signal levels at various locations.

BTW, are you getting low power channel 39 (23.X) out there now?

I'm getting it on the East side of Batavia. The other night I had 55 digital channels locked in, granted, about a 10% of them said "What's up with that?"

I trust that you showed your neighbor and/or experimented as to how to optimally use rabbit ears for channel 7.



But then don't you risk throwing some other channel or channels out of whack? Nobody wants to have to re-adjust their rabbit ears on a 'per station tune-in' basis. Either get cable or satellite (philosophically or financially unpalatable for many, I know) or find a better indoor antenna where little to no re-tuning adjustment is required, if such a beast exists.

I think it will help some, but for perspective, the CBS affiliate in the Quad Cities
went from 1 megawatt on rf channel 58 to 24 killowatts on rf channel 4. People out there are screaming bloody murder. WOI-DT in Des Moines (ABC) went from 1 megawatt at 2,000' on channel 59 (you could get them in northern Missouri!), to about 25 kilowatts on channel 5. Now, they can't be seen two counties over. Out there, though, people knew about it and have seemingly resigned to the fact they won't get it anymore.

However, KCCI-DT on channel 8, 2,000' in the sky with 28.3 kw, goes gangbusters.

I'm not sure it's that clear cut. My Mother, out by LaSalle, IL, has her antenna pointed a little West of Peoria, primarily in the hopes of also picking up the Quad Cities. Before the analog cutoff, she received 8.1 some of the time, no sign of 4.1 or 6.1. (If I turned the antenna towards the Quad Cities, then she could lock all three.) Post transition, she reports that she can lock all three solidly, without turning the antenna. I don't remember the exact distance, but she must be about 60 miles away.

www.tvfool.com confirms that all three Quad Cities networks should be stronger post-transition. If folks aren't getting a signal "two counties away", my first guess is that they need to use a VHF capable antenna.

Dan (Woj...)

hey everyone! i've been a lurker on these forums for a while but decided to post today because i've been having some of the same problems after the digital transition as some of you.

before the transition i'd been receiving a ton of channels including WLS-DT (ABC 7) via my Winegard pre-amp and SquareShooter antenna that i have mounted on top our fridge inside our first floor one bedroom condo in Yorkville :) in fact, ABC 7 used to be one of the most reliably strong signals we received. the only big network i was unable to get was CBS. which from what i've seen, was the only major network with a pretty weak signal.

anyway, after the digital transition we've gotten some improved signals from just about all our channels but completely lost ABC 7. it's pretty upsetting that ABC 7 didn't warn us about their new lower broadcast signal and most of their OTA viewers were left in the dark after noon on Friday.

we've called the FCC and WLS to voice our dismay over the loss of our ABC 7 digital signal. but we also submitted a message on Oprah's website and wanted to encourage members here to do the same. our thought is that maybe if we can all get Oprah on our side we might have a bigger voice to express our point of view. think of all the Chicagoland viewers she just lost because of this change over.

oh, and we also submitted a 'breaking new story' with a picture of our TV tuned to 7.1 and a message displaying 'failed to receive broadcast' to the ABC 7 news website :)

we are doing our best to make our voice heard about this issue so maybe some change can happen! if we all speak up hopefully they'll hear us!!!

The fact you couldn't get 2.1 before the analog cutoff, and can't 7.1 now, confirms that you little squarshooter, while a pre decent UHF antenna, just isn't much good for VHF. I don't think the power output of either station is the issue so much as the long wavelengths of the VHF spectrum.

Dan (Woj...)

If it ain't broke, don't fix it. Of course, that doesn't apply to most of the people around here!

Actually, based on an earlier message, he is missing a few channels. Since he is out in Geneva, my guess is that he'd benefit from a decent pre-amp. I suggest a Channel Master 7777.

Dan (Woj...)

I wonder if Winegard will eventually retune the "769" antennas to channels 7 thru 51?

You DO understand that there are many LP &/or translator stations STILL on the air that are above 51 - so there is still a need for antennas for these type stations. (these stations did NOT have to cut to digital &/or move freqs at this time)

The fact you couldn't get 2.1 before the analog cutoff, and can't 7.1 now, confirms that you little squarshooter, while a pre decent UHF antenna, just isn't much good for VHF. I don't think the power output of either station is the issue so much as the long wavelengths of the VHF spectrum.

Dan (Woj...)

I, too, have a SquareShooter, but I'm pretty sure it's the signal level that's the problem. Analog 7 was by far our clearest analog, and the polar patterns show a 6dB front-to-back gain, so while it is a fairly lousy VHF antenna, I don't think you can blame it entirely on that fact. Cutting the power to a tenth of what it used to be certainly can't help.

The REALLY confusing part, however, is when we had our antenna re-aligned. We had a roofer just plop it back on the roof after he took it off, and we were getting 7 and 12 just fine, and after the realignment, not only do we not get 7 and 12, but 29, which used to be our strongest signal, is breaking up as well! (I'm guessing some part of the antenna might have been corroded, because the plastic cover that is supposed to go on it blew off during a tornado a couple years ago). Luckily, however, tropo has been helping out the past couple of days, so at least for the time being, we can get by.

I'm not sure it's that clear cut. My Mother, out by LaSalle, IL, has her antenna pointed a little West of Peoria, primarily in the hopes of also picking up the Quad Cities. Before the analog cutoff, she received 8.1 some of the time, no sign of 4.1 or 6.1. (If I turned the antenna towards the Quad Cities, then she could lock all three.) Post transition, she reports that she can lock all three solidly, without turning the antenna. I don't remember the exact distance, but she must be about 60 miles away.

www.tvfool.com confirms that all three Quad Cities networks should be stronger post-transition. If folks aren't getting a signal "two counties away", my first guess is that they need to use a VHF capable antenna.

Dan (Woj...)

Dan,

Well, the VHF-LO maps I question. But here's the 4 *general* rules I use, in terms of receiving TV antennas:

1. Bigger is better (more receiving elements/rods)
2. Higher is better (3 db, or 50% signal gain every 10' you go up)
3. Outdoors is much better than indoors
4. Band-specific antennas are better than "combination" antennas, but are more cumbersome to deal with.

Having said that, channel 4 is at much high power than WBBM was on channel 3, and also on a taller stick.
People are having trouble getting it, but mainly because they don't have VHF-LO antennas. WHBF (channel 4 CBS Quad Cities) is at 24.1 kw on channel 4, which is somewhat better than channel 3 in terms of interference.
And THAT is the power WBBM should have gotten. If WBBM was at 24 kw, we'd have only complained during nearby thunderstorms when they were back on channel 3...or if they were at that power right now. Ditto for WLS.

Dishrich:

Here in the Chicago area, we only have one LP station that I know of above 51, on analog, still on the air...that's a low power translator of TBN in Elgin on channel 57. Since TBN retuned 40 on Sears, it's kind of redundant, and I don't see it on the air much. So really, I say it isn't worh it, locally.
Milwaukee has a 63 analog doing Telemundo, but it's simulcast on digital.

Yesterday I added a preamp (AP-8700) to my setup. So now I've got a terrestrial digital V21 on the roof, preamp, and 50' RG6 going to a TiVO HD. I noticed a few % increase on the signals but it was not enough to make WLS lock reliably.

WYCC 20.1 is barely showing up at all on the signal meter. I'm 35mi west of the transmitters -- is anyone out here having success getting 20.1?

2.1 80%
5.x 80%
7.x 50% not locking
9.x 100%
11.x 90%
20.x 5% not locking
32.x 80%
26.x 90%
38.x 70%
50.1 90%


I'm about 35 miles away on the Aurora/Naperville boundary. 20.1 has never been a problem for me. I've got an Antennas Direct DB4 with a Channel Master 7777 in my attic. For VHF, I'm still using my V4 MkII (low VHF), which is still giving me a solid lock on 2.1 and 7.1.

Dan (Woj...)

Hey everyone,

I just got off the phone with Kal Hassan, chief engineer at WLS-DT. They will be testing their transmitter at 9.5 kilowatts between 5:30 PM and 6 PM through 7:30 PM today, and he gave permission to make this a public test (of course, they're only running 4.75 kw now). You'll have at least 90 minutes to test it, but they must allow an engineer a 30 minute window to park and get to the top of Sears. It's safe to say they'll be at high power at 6 PM, if nothing else. If you cannot do this one, sometime between Tuesday and Thursday of next week, they will do another public test for an entire evening, like 5 PM-11 PM. Kal will call me when the date is pinned down, and I will post here.

So...here's what you can do...

1. Note your reception of WLS now. If you have a signal to noise ratio display, what is it now, before (or after) the test? If you have a signal "quality" meter, what does it show before (or after) the test, and during the test? *If* you are using "rabbit ears" with an antenna that sits on top of your TV, a cabinet or something, during the test note how much more stable it is by moving the "ears" around.

2. Note what time(s) you checked it.

3. Note location, and antenna, and antenna model if possible. Note any (pre)amps and also note what kind of cable you are using (RG-59, RG-6, or don't know), and how long it is.

4. Post your results and any other thoughts, when you get time, here on the forum.

Good luck to all!

Dishrich:

Here in the Chicago area, we only have one LP station that I know of above 51, on analog, still on the air...that's a low power translator of TBN in Elgin on channel 57. Since TBN retuned 40 on Sears, it's kind of redundant, and I don't see it on the air much. So really, I say it isn't worh it, locally.
Milwaukee has a 63 analog doing Telemundo, but it's simulcast on digital.

I understand all that locally, but go out west & there's LOT's of them there. Hence why I was saying Winegard is NOT going to stop making UHF antennas that go to ch 69... ;) ;)

5:42 PM...9.5 kw. Whaddya think? Post!

You do understand that there are many LP &/or translator stations still on the air that are above 51 - so there is still a need for antennas for these type stations. (these stations did not have to cut to digital &/or move freqs at this time)No, I was not aware of that fact. All of our LP/translators that were above 52 are gone now, along with DTV stations that were there, too.

Thanks for the info.

5:42 PM...9.5 kw. Whaddya think? Post!

Approx 15 miles SW of Sears tower:

TV1 on aged ginormous apartment master antenna in attic - before 10/10, after 10/10

TV2 on 36" dipole tacked up on the wall (about 6 inches below the ceiling) - before 10/10, after 10/10

TV3 on regular rabbit ears fully extended (on shelf next to TV, about 3 feet off the floor) - before 6/10, after 10/10.

5:42 PM...9.5 kw. Whaddya think? Post!

Is this for WLS?

Looks like a jump from 65% to 75/80% for my MYHD tuner using a 8200 about 30 foot up.

5:42 PM...9.5 kw. Whaddya think? Post!When I first turned on my TV, I had 73 - 74, from 66 - 67. I was like cool, let's tweak this baby and see how much more I can get out of it. Once I started tweaking, I never got higher than 71. Now I can't get back to 73 - 74. I should have just left the stupid thing alone. When am I going to learn...? :mad:

Originally Posted by winniepoah
I am in hoffman estates and have no trouble receiving analog channel 5 but digial either cuts out on my samsung 450 (best buy said during the day the sun messes the signal up) but today I just hooked up a zenith 19In digital tv and got no signal OTA for 5.1 ......My antena is in the attic and difficult to get to because of all the cross beams....IT has a booster box we put on about 15 years ago and there are 5 lines coming out of it .....any suggestions?? ....

posted by pm3839
if that amp/booster box is in the attic i bet its suffering heat stroke after 15 years of use....or its just degraded from old age...take it out of the line...

but before u buy another amp try to feed just one tv with a direct line from the antenna...no splitters, amps, etc....maybe u dont need the amp...a passive antenna system is always the best & most reliable....

then, if that works put in just enough of a splitter to feed however many tv's u actually have....dont use a 5 way splitter if u only have 2 tv's to feed...that just wastes valuable signal....then add an amp if u dont have enough signal...but dont mount that amp in the attic....the summer heat in an attic is murder on any active electronics....


Hi guys, Finally getting around to crawling up in the attic on sunday. I have a separated shoulder and my dad a degenerating spine and no youngsters around SOOO PM3839, where do you put he amp? if not in the attic
so we dont have to crawl in and out to many times, here is the situation again
I have an amplifier or booster on the 28 year old antennal in the attic, I will disconnect as suggested and see what happens. Someone said in a long ago answer to my post that solar conditions do not matter but I am reading in other posts that they do (yes /no?) I am finding many of my channels that do not come in during the day will at night ( but not always) These are my problem station numers (call letters confuse me)
rarely 5, almost never 11, never 20,26,38,44,60,66 although they all scanned in my samsung and phillips dvr but get no signal to view
NOW the next qustion is we are not sure if my antenna is just vhf or both- might that be the problem? o if we are moving the direction, is it the same direction for all these channels in schaumburg. Would rather not order a new antenna if needed on line, cause what if that does not work so would like to buy locally if need be.
last choice is going to comcast basic for 11.99/month may be easier then all this but for dad in mt prospect it is 22.95/mo

Originally Posted by winniepoah
I am in hoffman estates and have no trouble receiving analog channel 5 but digial either cuts out on my samsung 450 (best buy said during the day the sun messes the signal up) but today I just hooked up a zenith 19In digital tv and got no signal OTA for 5.1 ......My antena is in the attic and difficult to get to because of all the cross beams....IT has a booster box we put on about 15 years ago and there are 5 lines coming out of it .....any suggestions?? ....

posted by pm3839
if that amp/booster box is in the attic i bet its suffering heat stroke after 15 years of use....or its just degraded from old age...take it out of the line...

but before u buy another amp try to feed just one tv with a direct line from the antenna...no splitters, amps, etc....maybe u dont need the amp...a passive antenna system is always the best & most reliable....

then, if that works put in just enough of a splitter to feed however many tv's u actually have....dont use a 5 way splitter if u only have 2 tv's to feed...that just wastes valuable signal....then add an amp if u dont have enough signal...but dont mount that amp in the attic....the summer heat in an attic is murder on any active electronics....
Hi guys, Finally getting around to crawling up in the attic on sunday. I have a separated shoulder and my dad a degenerating spine and no youngsters around SOOO
so we dont have to crawl in and out to many times, here is the situation again
I have an amplifier or booster on the 28 year old antennal in the attic, I will disconnect as suggested and see what happens. Someone said in a long ago answer to my post that solar conditions do not matter but I am reading in other posts that they do (yes /no?) I am finding many of my channels that do not come in during the day will at night ( but not always) These are my problem station numers (call letters confuse me)
rarely 5, almost never 11, never 20,26,38,44,60,66 although they all scanned in my samsung and phillips dvr but get no signal to view
NOW the next qustion is we are not sure if my antenna is just vhf or both- might that be the problem? o if we are moving the direction, is it the same direction for all these channels in schaumburg. Would rather not order a new antenna if needed on line, cause what if that does not work so would like to buy locally if need be.
last choice is going to comcast basic for 11.99/month may be easier then all this but for dad in mt prospect it is 22.95/mo

If you have an antenna in the attic you should be able to get all those stations. My guess is your cable is very old and that is the problem. You need the cable to carry the signal and for the connectors at the end of the cable to make a solid connection (not rusted, dirty, or corroded).

I just got off the phone with Kal Hassan, chief engineer at WLS-DT. They will be testing their transmitter at 9.5 kilowatts between 5:30 PM and 6 PM through 7:30 PM today ...It would have been nice if Kal had given Gilbert a little more notice, so that he could give us some more.  Most of us can't live on line, let alone live on AVSForum, and there was less than two hours’ advance warning for this.

Here in the Chicago area, we only have one LP station that I know of above 51, on analog, still on the air.WCHU-LP is still carrying Azteca America on analog 61.

It would have been nice if Kal had given Gilbert a little more notice, so that he could give us some more.* Most of us can't live on line, let alone live on AVSForum, and there was less than two hours’ advance warning for this.

WCHU-LP is still carrying Azteca America on analog 61.

Well, the notice was for mainly next week. I realized the other tonight was on very short notice, but I knew a few would see it, and it's better than nothing. The BIG test will be between Tuesday and Thursday of next week, and last 6 hours...you'll have plenty of warning for that. Tonight was a warm-up.

And I forgot about WCHU-LP 61...thanks! I see, however, that the power increasefor the most part, didn't do terribly much, which was what I was expecting.

Chicago & Channel 7 report for 6-26-2009
2.1 80
5.1 86
7.1 90 Normally it is 65!
9.1 96
11.1 76
32.1 82
44.1 75
Everything locks above 35 so very strong signals
2 miles west of South Bend airport.
8200 winegard with preamp at 55 feet with 120 ft. RG-6

Hope I get to check during the next ABC7 power test. While I do receive the channel fairly reliably with only a few minor breakups every half hour a lady friend of mine in Sandwich cannot pick up ABC7 except for now and then at night and her antenna is on a 50 foot tower. She called me yesterday asking what we could do about it. I explained to her about the power boost tests coming up and will let her know when to check again.

Originally Posted by winniepoah
I am in hoffman estates and have no trouble receiving analog channel 5 but digial either cuts out on my samsung 450 (best buy said during the day the sun messes the signal up) but today I just hooked up a zenith 19In digital tv and got no signal OTA for 5.1 ......My antena is in the attic and difficult to get to because of all the cross beams....IT has a booster box we put on about 15 years ago and there are 5 lines coming out of it .....any suggestions??

posted by pm3839
if that amp/booster box is in the attic i bet its suffering heat stroke after 15 years of use....or its just degraded from old age...take it out of the line... but before u buy another amp try to feed just one tv with a direct line from the antenna...no splitters, amps, etc....maybe u dont need the amp...a passive antenna system is always the best & most reliable....

then, if that works put in just enough of a splitter to feed however many tv's u actually have....dont use a 5 way splitter if u only have 2 tv's to feed...that just wastes valuable signal....then add an amp if u dont have enough signal...but dont mount that amp in the attic....the summer heat in an attic is murder on any active electronics....

Hi guys, Finally getting around to crawling up in the attic on sunday. I have a separated shoulder and my dad a degenerating spine and no youngsters around SOOO PM3839, where do you put he amp? if not in the attic so we dont have to crawl in and out to many times, here is the situation again....I have an amplifier or booster on the 28 year old antennal in the attic, I will disconnect as suggested and see what happens. Someone said in a long ago answer to my post that solar conditions do not matter but I am reading in other posts that they do (yes /no?) I am finding many of my channels that do not come in during the day will at night ( but not always) These are my problem station numers (call letters confuse me)......rarely 5, almost never 11, never 20,26,38,44,60,66 although they all scanned in my samsung and phillips dvr but get no signal to view.....NOW the next qustion is we are not sure if my antenna is just vhf or both- might that be the problem? o if we are moving the direction, is it the same direction for all these channels in schaumburg. Would rather not order a new antenna if needed on line, cause what if that does not work so would like to buy locally if need be......last choice is going to comcast basic for 11.99/month may be easier then all this but for dad in mt prospect it is 22.95/mo

ok.....several points to answer/consider here>

1st, the 28 year age of your antenna is no problem since it has been in your attic and out of the weather...attic antennas last forever....and dont believe the hype/lies from stores like > 'our new antennas are digital ready and your old antenna is not'....thats total bs....

solar conditions have no practical effect on local tv reception in your situation/location....

all the chicago stations come from the same basic direction in downtown chicago....so u need to point the antenna in that direction....

as to what kind of antenna u have > this is important...can u get a picture of it and post it here? we'll most likely be able to tell u what it is and which part of it to point where...you're missing so many channels i am guessing its a vhf only antenna....most chicago tv stations are on uhf.....but even a vhf only antenna may work (with a little luck) if its pointed correctly and connected correctly to all your tv's....

schaumburg and mt. prospect are close enough that u should be able to get all the local chicago tv stations with most any kind of properly working vhf/uhf antenna system....and hopefully without an amplifier....so try to feed just one tv with a direct line from the antenna...no splitters, amps, etc....that eliminates a lot of potential problems and will tell u how much signal u have to work with...

but if u do need the amp install it anywhere that it wont be subjected to the summer heat in the attic....run a single coax line directly from the antenna out of the attic and do your splits and amplifier in the closest convenient location....but again, try to make it all work without the amp....a passive antenna system is always the best & most reliable....

and most important of all > do not give up...u can do this...dont become a slave to the evil pay tv companies!

Well, the notice was for mainly next week. ... The BIG test will be between Tuesday and Thursday of next week, and last 6 hours...you'll have plenty of warning for that. Tonight was a warm-up.Sorry; I got the impression from your previous post that there would be further tests this coming week only if Friday's test turned out inconclusive.

It'll be great if WLS increases the power levels, but I sure hope they're not thinking along the lines of adding another subchannel full of commercials to make up for the unplanned increase in power costs.

Hi everyone!

I have read through this ENTIRE thread over the course of this week and I must say I have learned a lot that I didn't before about antennas, etc. I already knew a bit before reading through it but I know a lot more now. I decided I would sign up and be a part of the community. I hope that I have a chance to be helpful to others when I have the chance and hope that I continue to learn more on top of what I've already read here.

The reason I started to read through the thread is because my family and I would really like to get a nice outdoor antenna. We already have one in the attic that does a pretty good job of getting all the local Chicago channels, but we figure it would be a good idea to get a nice outdoor one for the roof on the house or shed roof. The learning a lot more than I already did about this stuff was a nice little extra :) I'd like some advice though if possible and will fill everyone in on where I am and what we're looking into getting.

My parents and I live in Tinley Park, so we're within 25 miles or so of the transmitters. Gonna need to know that before anyone can help me out ;) Now, I have done some homework on the different brands of antennas out there. My Mom told me to research them and she'll get whichever one is best so convincing them to get a new nice outdoor antenna wasn't hard at all ;)

Here's what my parents would like the antenna for and what I would like it for:

My parents just want a nice, good outdoor antenna that will let us continue to get all the Chicago local stations reliably. Before the transition, Channel 2 was HORRIBLE and at times Channel 7 wasn't so great either. Since the transition we're getting both of those really clearly. I've never ever seen WBBM as clear as I have since the transition. It's great to be able to see a crystal clear picture on that channel :) So, they just want one that will keep letting them get all the locals reliably.

I would like a nice, good outdoor antenna with a good pre-amp that will give me a glimpse of channels in other markets on good nights. I am very interested in and enjoy seeing how channels in different markets do things and I enjoy watching news casts in other areas as well. Way before DTV, when everything was straight up analog, I had this counter top TV (Unfortunately it's been thrown out :() that had a HUGE extendable antenna. On very good nights when conditions were good, I was able to get almost all the South Bend channels clearly..as clear as the local Chicago ones some nights! Most of the Milwaukee channels came in just as clearly quite frequently. On a few occasions I was able to watch WOOD out of Kalamazoo and once I was even able to watch one of the Rockford channels! So as you can see I do enjoy that kind of stuff greatly and would like an antenna that will allow me to do that at times again.

I've done my homework and have narrowed it down to either a Winegard-hope I spelt that right! Or a Channel Master with a good pre-amp. Which brand and model of antenna would be good for what both my parents and I want it to do?

What sort of pre-amp do you guys recommend? Do I need a Digital Tuner if I want to be able to get the distant channels on good nights or no? I'm guessing not but figured I'd ask :)

Finally, with me being in Tinley Park, with a good antenna and pre-amp can I still hope to get South Bend and Milwaukee on good tropo nights or have things changed and made it more complicated? How about Rockford is there ANY chance I'll be able to watch any of their channels? Not gonna lie I'd love to be able to catch a glimpse, even if it's just for a few minutes of stuff out of the Quad Cities, Champaign and Peoria but I'm guessing the Quad Cities and Champaign will be out of the question :( I am thinking I should be able to do South Bend and Milwaukee no problem and with major luck maybe one of the stronger Rockford ones but not sure about the others.

I think that's everything :) I've really enjoyed reading through the entire thread and hope you guys can point me in the direction of a good antenna for my family and I :)

Did WFLD do any signoff when it stopped nightlighting?  I forgot about it and didn't tune in.

That was the end of full-power analog in this DMA.

I put up a Winegard 7694PHD for a client yesterday. Nice gain across the whole spectrum. What I also liked how small it is, Looks like it's missing something but packs a punch. Highly recommended.:)

hi, will try to take a picture tomorrow, but getting up there is a challange as it is at the other end of the attic and over mucho cross beams ( butt bounce)
I was passing by FRYS today on my way home from working at heritage fest in downers and talked to one guy who only knew that the winegarrd 8800 http://www.frys.com/product/5939594?site=sr:SEARCH:MAIN_RSLT_PG
was a good seller at $59.99 with 55 mile coverage the other was a HD1080 at 35 miles http://www.frys.com/product/5939554?site=sr:SEARCH:MAIN_RSLT_PG

then talked to another guy about my issue and he said the antenna is probably good that I need an amplifier http://www.frys.com/product/3986398?site=sr:SEARCH:MAIN_RSLT_PG
So I got both JIC as tomorrow is make it or break it on going in to the attic
but now I see when looiking on line the 8800 is uhc and the 1080 is vhf/uhf
which one do I need if I do need one? or a different one . Is 7-69 on the discription the channels or the frequency as chicago has channel 2 and 5 also

Radio shack (checked 2-a ll out)
BUT will take your suggestions first by disconnecting the booster and repositioning the antenna ( no compass and hard to tell the direction when up there ( the house does not face a straigh direction) and check the connections

I know there was an antenna site for reference on direction and zone etc, but cannot find it

wish me luck- anyone wanta help? hoffman estates!

Hi everyone!

I have read through this ENTIRE thread over the course of this week and I must say I have learned a lot that I didn't before about antennas, etc. I already knew a bit before reading through it but I know a lot more now. I decided I would sign up and be a part of the community. The reason I started to read through the thread is because my family and I would really like to get a nice outdoor antenna.

I think that's everything :) I've really enjoyed reading through the entire thread and hope you guys can point me in the direction of a good antenna for my family and I :)

Hello BH,

Welcome to the forum, and great job reading through the thread! Well, let's see...

If you want one of the best VHF-UHF combination antennas to make life easier, the Winegard 8200U is among the best:

http://www.solidsignal.com/prod_display.asp?PROD=HD8200U

I put this 50' in the air in Crystal Lake, and could easily lock WBBM from Chicago, and get all stations from Rockford and Milwaukee.

If size is an issue, then look at the ChannelMaster 4228 HD.

http://www.solidsignal.com/prod_display.asp?PROD=4228-HD

If you don't mind not picking up channels 2-6, the CM 4228HD is great. Put that on a rotor and you will get lots of stuff. Then put on a Winegard AP-8700 preamp to take away any line loss, and you'll have a dynamite system. Of course, you may want a rotor...

http://www.solidsignal.com/prod_display.asp?PROD=MTRTR200

And rotor cable to connect to the antenna...

http://www.solidsignal.com/prod_display.asp?PROD=SCM9554-100

Tripod kit you can find at Menards, as well as RG-6 quad shielded cable.
Then put it together and have fun!

I hope that helps. That will definitely do what you want it to do. And South Bend, Milwaukee DX should be no problem. Phil down in Crete doesn't have a setup quite as good as that, and still gets WTVO-DT in the spring and summer several times each week. Indy, Peoria, Champaign and the Quad Cities with that setup should be doable on tropo nights.

I hope that helps! Others will have suggestions, but that's my dream ticket. I know, I have it...it's just in the attic...can't put it outdoors, unfortunately. But I still DX all the markets. tonight, in fact, as the storms were leaving, I managed to pick up on analog, channels 2 and 3...both Canadian Broadcast Corporation channels in Montreal and Quebec via E-skip!

....... my family and I would really like to get a nice outdoor antenna. We already have one in the attic that does a pretty good job of getting all the local Chicago channels, but we figure it would be a good idea to get a nice outdoor one for the roof on the house or shed roof......My parents and I live in Tinley Park, so we're within 25 miles or so of the transmitters......My parents just want a nice, good outdoor antenna that will let us continue to get all the Chicago local stations reliably. Before the transition, Channel 2 was HORRIBLE and at times Channel 7 wasn't so great either. Since the transition we're getting both of those really clearly.....I would like a nice, good outdoor antenna with a good pre-amp that will give me a glimpse of channels in other markets on good nights. I am very interested in and enjoy seeing how channels in different markets do things and I enjoy watching news casts in other areas as well......What sort of pre-amp do you guys recommend? ......:)

well, i may be wrong but i think getting other markets/cities reliably is not very practical from your location....except for pbs wyin ch 56.1 from indiana, i think only south bends cbs ch 22 is a somewhat reliable possibilty for u, at best....and thats mostly just a repeat of our cbs via wbbm ch2.1...i understand your desire/interest to see distant channels but its going to be a real project with not much gained, i suspect....

u already have a wonderful situation > youre getting all the chicago stations on an attic antenna....thats great...that antenna will last forever in the attic with zero maintenence.....so why risk roof/shingle damage and your personal safety climbing ladders, etc to mount an expensive antenna outdoors with few increased benefits?

if u really want to persue this, i'd say get a large vhf/uhf antenna mounted as high as possible and a rotor to aim it at different cities...u'll easily spend $200 to $300 or more for all that....and far more than that if u use a tower...

Did WFLD do any signoff when it stopped nightlighting?* I forgot about it and didn't tune in.

That was the end of full-power analog in this DMA.

Nope, they just pulled the plug.

And as expected, WBUW-DT in Madison started giving me a low-level signal that I'll probably lock when I turn my CM4228 northwest.

hi, will try to take a picture tomorrow, but getting up there is a challange as it is at the other end of the attic and over mucho cross beams ( butt bounce)......BUT will take your suggestions first by disconnecting the booster and repositioning the antenna ( no compass and hard to tell the direction when up there ( the house does not face a straigh direction) and check the connections......I know there was an antenna site for reference on direction and zone etc, but cannot find it......

the exact direction is not critical....within 5 or 10 degrees will get u started.....use a chimney or some such 'visible from inside the attic' landmark as a reference....BUT first u have to know where/what the front of the antenna is to be able to 'point' it...thats one reason why we need a pic of the antenna....or a drawing of it....or show us one that looks similar...

tvfool.com will give u exact angles from your zipcode....

any possibility of relocating the antenna to a more accessible place in the attic? that would be a big help....

Thank you VERY much Gilbert!! Even gave me links and everything! Good man :) I'm probably going to try to get as close to the setup you have as possible. AMAZING stuff you were able to get tonight by the way!

This sure does sound like it'll do exactly what I want it to and I thank you very much for taking the time to reply and giving me all the links I need. Once I get all the stuff you suggested and all set up I'll post here with what stuff I'm able to get from where I am. Sounds like I'll be able to get everything I'm wanting to see and then some ;)

I'm probably going to try to get as close to the setup you have as possible.Actually, as long as you're going to use a rotor, I'd probably just go with an antenna more directional and practical, while still being well-built and well-performing - like this: http://www.solidsignal.com/prod_display.asp?PROD=HD7697P.

If you want to try to eke out a few extra miles, and don't mind something a bit larger (in length), you can go with the 7698P. The AP-8700 pre-amp previously mentioned would be a very good choice for an amp.

I am also of the belief that you're not going to get much worth the hassle outside of the Chicago market regularly enough to depend on, other than maybe some South Bend stations. Actually, if you're ever going to pick up anything extra at all, the Winegards I mentioned will most likely get you about the same stuff as all those other ones would. Maybe even better, because the newer, cheaper-made Chinese version of the 4228 supposedly isn't built and doesn't perform as well as the older version (from what I gather reading the Technical forum here).

Like PM said - most of the programming worth watching is redundant amongst large markets, anyway (and the lower-powered stations mainly just show shopping, religious and ethnic fare). Just buy a no-fee, standalone hard drive recorder like the (SD) Magnavox H2160A or (HD) DTV Pal DVR to record with, and you'll have lots of different stuff to watch whenever you want.

Once you get that antenna, with the pre-amp and the rotor, way up on that roof where you can't get at it so easily and exposed to the constant battering of the elements, DX'ing just for the sake of DX'ing can turn out to be more trouble and costly than it's worth after awhile (especially if you have to occasionally hire people to go up there and fix it for you). Unless you're a near-fanatic, the thrill of reception of out of market channels usually wears off considerably in due time. In some cases it can even be more worth it to just pay for a basic level of cable or satellite - if what you're mostly interested in is the reasonably-reliable reception of a variety of stuff worth watching while being able to relax and never really having to worry about much.

If there was a lot of great stuff out there worth DX'ing for that was actually worth watching, I'd tell you differently - but I'm just telling you this from a practical and realistic point of view - especially since you seemed to just gloss over PM's post.

I dont understand why do we need 2 of the same channels with the same content
20-1 and 20-2
44-1 and 44-2

just a waste..

hi, will try to take a picture tomorrow, but getting up there is a challange as it is at the other end of the attic and over mucho cross beams ( butt bounce)
I was passing by FRYS today on my way home from working at heritage fest in downers and talked to one guy who only knew that the winegarrd 8800 http://www.frys.com/product/5939594?site=sr:SEARCH:MAIN_RSLT_PG
was a good seller at $59.99 with 55 mile coverage the other was a HD1080 at 35 miles http://www.frys.com/product/5939554?site=sr:SEARCH:MAIN_RSLT_PG

then talked to another guy about my issue and he said the antenna is probably good that I need an amplifier http://www.frys.com/product/3986398?site=sr:SEARCH:MAIN_RSLT_PG
So I got both JIC as tomorrow is make it or break it on going in to the attic
but now I see when looiking on line the 8800 is uhc and the 1080 is vhf/uhf
which one do I need if I do need one? or a different one . Is 7-69 on the discription the channels or the frequency as chicago has channel 2 and 5 also

Radio shack (checked 2-a ll out)
BUT will take your suggestions first by disconnecting the booster and repositioning the antenna ( no compass and hard to tell the direction when up there ( the house does not face a straigh direction) and check the connections

I know there was an antenna site for reference on direction and zone etc, but cannot find it

wish me luck- anyone wanta help? hoffman estates!

1. The CM-7777 amplifier seems to be the best amp you can buy.

2. Buy a compass from Wal-Mart for $4.

3. The website you were looking for is www.tvfool.com

I was looking at the TV Fool site for the results of stations in my area. Under the "path" column, I know LOS is Line of Sight and Tropo speaks for itself. But what does 1 edge and 2 edge mean in terms of antenna pointing? Or type of antenna?

I was looking at the TV Fool site for the results of stations in my area. Under the "path" column, I know LOS is Line of Sight and Tropo speaks for itself. But what does 1 edge and 2 edge mean in terms of antenna pointing? Or type of antenna?

Please read the Signal Analysis FAQs at TVfool.

It's all explained there.

Actually, as long as you're going to use a rotor, I'd probably just go with an antenna more directional and practical, while still being well-built and well-performing - like this: http://www.solidsignal.com/prod_display.asp?PROD=HD7697P.

If you want to try to eke out a few extra miles, and don't mind something a bit larger (in length), you can go with the 7698P. The AP-8700 pre-amp previously mentioned would be a very good choice for an amp.

I am also of the belief that you're not going to get much worth the hassle outside of the Chicago market regularly enough to depend on, other than maybe some South Bend stations. Actually, if you're ever going to pick up anything extra at all, the Winegards I mentioned will most likely get you about the same stuff as all those other ones would. Maybe even better, because the newer, cheaper-made Chinese version of the 4228 supposedly isn't built and doesn't perform as well as the older version (from what I gather reading the Technical forum here).

Like PM said - most of the programming worth watching is redundant amongst large markets, anyway (and the lower-powered stations mainly just show shopping, religious and ethnic fare). Just buy a no-fee, standalone hard drive recorder like the (SD) Magnavox H2160A or (HD) DTV Pal DVR to record with, and you'll have lots of different stuff to watch whenever you want.

Once you get that antenna, with the pre-amp and the rotor, way up on that roof where you can't get at it so easily and exposed to the constant battering of the elements, DX'ing just for the sake of DX'ing can turn out to be more trouble and costly than it's worth after awhile (especially if you have to occasionally hire people to go up there and fix it for you). Unless you're a near-fanatic, the thrill of reception of out of market channels usually wears off considerably in due time. In some cases it can even be more worth it to just pay for a basic level of cable or satellite - if what you're mostly interested in is the reasonably-reliable reception of a variety of stuff worth watching while being able to relax and never really having to worry about much.

If there was a lot of great stuff out there worth DX'ing for that was actually worth watching, I'd tell you differently - but I'm just telling you this from a practical and realistic point of view - especially since you seemed to just gloss over PM's post.

The HD7698 is an excellent antenna, as others know. But, if you want DX fun, I'd also want channels 2-6...so I recommended the ones I did in my previous post. As for me, believe it or not, I'm not a near fanatic...although with the DTV transition I've been on here more often. :D However, while you can and do have problems with equipment, the key is to do it right the first time. The tripod is heavy duty, the antenna has anti-corrosion materials (inluding the HD7697), and if you do it right, running RG-6 quad-shielded cable, it's certainly possible to get 20-30 years of life from it. While it can be a pain sometimes, for me, I like watching the news from other markets to see what they are seeing as news. If you watch Rockford's news, you'll think you're on a whole different planet than Chicago. Any murders and major crimes get reported, of course, but the rest is almost like watching a public affairs program with civic activities going on. And I like that. Sure beats watching story after story about fires, murders and whatnot that aren't relevant to me. WTVO-DT calls it "news where you live", but all the stations are like that in Rockford, just reporting on different stuff. And, when there's a tornado warning in their area, they do wall-to-wall coverage, which I love...and what the Chicago stations *should* do, IMO.

As for the 4228HD, I've had one in my hands and I think they changed something, because it is sturdier now. It performs a bit less well on UHF at the expense of VHF, *but*...the UHF performance is still fantastic. A colleague of mine who has one 35' up on a 50' tower locks WSBT-DT...from DeKalb...every few minutes, it comes in for about 10 seconds with NO tropo. At 120 miles out, that's impressive. I still like the other design, but this version of the 4228HD has grown on me after seeing that. He also gets 2.1 and 7.X very well out here with that antenna.

So, yes it can be work, and I know Ramm has had some bad experiences with his setup. But you'll have a better chance of succeeding if you do it right the first time. I learned, but boy, it was worth it. And getting a better picture than Comcast, AT&T or satellite with no fees...priceless.

BTW, I do expect full-power stations on channels 2-6 in the future. Bank on it. It won't be about the signal quality, though if people can get it, that's fine. It will be all about cable/satellite coverage.

Please read the Signal Analysis FAQs at TVfool.

It's all explained there.
This is all it says:

LOS: Line-of-sight
1Edge: Single edge diffraction
2Edge: Double edge diffraction
Tropo: Tropospheric scatter

Could someone fill in some details on 1Edge and 2Edge?

This is all it says:
LOS: Line-of-sight
1Edge: Single edge diffraction
2Edge: Double edge diffraction
Tropo: Tropospheric scatter
Could someone fill in some details on 1Edge and 2Edge?

i'm pretty sure its all about the physics of what happens to electromagnetic waves/signals when they 'bend' or diffract below or around an obstruction....like a mountain or in a valley.....

i think a 1edge signal is less degraded than a 2edge signal...and therefore ez'er to receive dependably.....and i think 1 means 1st and 2 means 2nd, in this case....by the time u get to a 3rd edge the signal is probably totally trashed as far as a tv tuner ever seeing it....

u probably just about have to be a phd in rf propagation physics to really understand it well....

This is all it says:

LOS: Line-of-sight
1Edge: Single edge diffraction
2Edge: Double edge diffraction
Tropo: Tropospheric scatter

Could someone fill in some details on 1Edge and 2Edge?

More details: http://www.hdtvprimer.com/ANTENNAS/siting.html

This is a tricky one. I am getting a strong signal on my HTPC using a SiliconDust HDHomeRun. I am also splitting the signal off to a TiVo S3, and I am getting good signal there. Here is the problem - On the TiVo, CBS (12) OTA is rock solid. On the HTPC, I randomly get a glitch, a couple times a minute on average. It takes the form of a tiling, or a stutter. Is it possible that CBS is doing something in their signal that is causing this? Every other Chicago channel comes in perfectly.

I figure it is worth asking the experts here, in case there is something I can do........

This is a tricky one. I am getting a strong signal on my HTPC using a SiliconDust HDHomeRun. I am also splitting the signal off to a TiVo S3, and I am getting good signal there. Here is the problem - On the TiVo, CBS (12) OTA is rock solid. On the HTPC, I randomly get a glitch, a couple times a minute on average. It takes the form of a tiling, or a stutter. Is it possible that CBS is doing something in their signal that is causing this? Every other Chicago channel comes in perfectly.

I figure it is worth asking the experts here, in case there is something I can do........

It is very possible that there is something in their DTV stream that angers some tuners. We had that problem for a while and still do in a minor sense. My Sammy LCD tuner still has a problem with our DT signal. Everything else in the house is ok.
On a side note, I did notice the same issue on WBBM but I haven't looked closely into it yet. Figured it was signal but can't confirm that theory yet.

Let me know if you find something.

It may be an unprofessional opinion, but I think you have come to the right conclusion. If you are getting good signal on the other TV's, you're definitely losing a lot of signal in-line on the cable.

So, I'll ask:

What is the cable type? If it is RG-6, you're good. If it is RG-59, it's of the devil. ;) Replace it with RG-6. It should say right on the cables what type it is. Anything RG-59, replace if possible, and that should do it.

If it is RG-6 cable end-to-end, then you need more gain. I would take out the 3038 amp and replace it with a ChannelMaster 7777 preamp. That will give you at least another 8-12 dB of gain across the board,
and every 3 dB gained is a 50% or so signal increase.

And welcome to the forum, IlliniGuy99. We're glad you're here!

Thanks very much to you and others for the helpful advice!

Thanks also for the kind welcome. I've been a lurker for several months and have learned a lot.

The cable is RG-6. There was some long alpha-numeric code on the cable, but a Google search confirmed that it was indeed RG-6.

Regarding the preamp... I see that CM 3038 provides 15 dB of gain for both UHF. The Radio Shack amp provides another 10 dB. The CM 7777 provides 23 dB of VHF gain and 26 dB of UHF gain. So if I were to replace both the 3038 and Radio Shack amps with 7777, I would actually have 2 dB less of VHF gain. But I suspect that you don't add up the gain amounts when you have 2 amps. Could anyone with more knowledge of such things comment?

Also, just a general question on pre-amps: say there are several splitters in the line. Does putting the power supply on one leg take care of the whole system? Or just that leg?

Thanks.

I live less than 5 miles east of you in Elmhurst, and have the same antenna / pre-amp, but mounted on the roof. I'm getting 100% signal on all the majors, and 90%+ on everything else with about a 75 foot run of RG6 to my main TV. After the initial split, and another 60 feet of RG6, I have another splitter, and I'm still getting 100% on both legs of that split. Considering that one of the splits is running another 50 feet on ancient RG59 back upstairs to the bedroom, I'm amazed. I was thinking about replacing the RG59, but it's an ugly job through the plumbing riser, and I subscribe to the "if it ain't broke, don't fix it" philosophy.

If you don't find a bad connection (check the back side of your wall plates), I would suggest either mounting it outside (if possible), or else punching a hole in your attic wall and running a new length of RG6 to the first floor. If you put a splitter in the attic before the new cable run, be sure to plug in the 3038 power block before the split, or else make sure that your splitter can pass DC voltage.

The beauty of this antenna is it's light weight. You really don't need a tripod. You can mount it with a J-mount, strap it to an eave or a chimney, or even a plumbing vent. The downside may be it's durability, although mine held up fine during last Friday's microburst. We'll see what happens when we get some heavy snow or freezing rain.

That's very good to know. Thanks. I like the antenna a lot. I live in a townhouse, so I MIGHT have issues with the homeowners association if I try to put it outside. It's just easier to keep it in the attic, for that reason and also for the reasons of durability that you note,

Remember that amps can add signal quality issues. So in many cases, one amp is better than two!

Regarding the preamp... I see that CM 3038 provides 15 dB of gain for both UHF. The Radio Shack amp provides another 10 dB. The CM 7777 provides 23 dB of VHF gain and 26 dB of UHF gain. So if I were to replace both the 3038 and Radio Shack amps with 7777, I would actually have 2 dB less of VHF gain. But I suspect that you don't add up the gain amounts when you have 2 amps. Could anyone with more knowledge of such things comment?

Also, just a general question on pre-amps: say there are several splitters in the line. Does putting the power supply on one leg take care of the whole system? Or just that leg?

Thanks.

The gain is added by Gt = G1+G2, but you also add in the noise figure Nt= N1+ (N2-1)/G2. There are a few things you have to worry about when cascading amps:
1) overdriving the receiver
2) overdriving the 2nd amp
3) adding in too much noise to the system

Don't use an amp unless you have to. If you are within 20 miles of the city, 23 dB gain is probably too much for those stations. I would recommend the AP8700 or CM7778 for less than 30 miles in. Also, you need to take note of signal to noise ratio. When adding 2 amps you raise the noise floor. Some cheapo radio shack amps have a 7 dB noise figure. I would consider 3dB the absolute max you'd want to tolerate in your system.

So, it's not just GAIN. It's overdriving and noise level. When you overdrive a receiver or amplifier it can produce some weird products (signals you don't want.)

2dB makes little difference in gain. Don't worry about it.

The gain is added by Gt = G1+G2, but you also add in the noise figure Nt= N1+ (N2-1)/G2. There are a few things you have to worry about when cascading amps:
1) overdriving the receiver
2) overdriving the 2nd amp
3) adding in too much noise to the system

Don't use an amp unless you have to. If you are within 20 miles of the city, 23 dB gain is probably too much for those stations. I would recommend the AP8700 or CM7778 for less than 30 miles in. Also, you need to take note of signal to noise ratio. When adding 2 amps you raise the noise floor. Some cheapo radio shack amps have a 7 dB noise figure. I would consider 3dB the absolute max you'd want to tolerate in your system.

So, it's not just GAIN. It's overdriving and noise level. When you overdrive a receiver or amplifier it can produce some weird products (signals you don't want.)

2dB makes little difference in gain. Don't worry about it.

Swiat's spot on. One amp should be plenty. Make sure the preamp parts are before all splits. If you split the signal 6 ways, I'd still go with the higher gain amp, because that knocks down 18 db + 1 db for every connector. Every split is a 4 dB loss, minimum.

One more item, go here for an amplifier comparison:
http://www.solidsignal.com/antennas/preamplifiers.asp

Then click on each amp and read the max input rating for each.
The AP8700 is 110,000uV VHF, 93,000uV UHF... which makes this one of the best when you're in the suburbs.

Some amps can only take in a fraction of that power so when you swing it towards the loop it gets overloaded and is worse than not having an amp in the first place!

If you're out in McHenry, DeKalb, or Valpo IN then you can go for the higher gain amp with less overload protection.

Going back to Friday, June 26,
If you cannot do this one, sometime between Tuesday and Thursday of next week, they will do another public test for an entire evening, like 5 PM-11 PM. Kal will call me when the date is pinned down, and I will post here.Anything definite from Kal yet, Gilbert?  Should we be tuning in tonight?

According to Trip's Rabbitears.info:

WLS- 07 52 07 ABC Chicago, IL (ABC)

WLS has doubled its power under experimental authority.

* Licensed: 1689' 4.75 kW ND
* Requested: 1689' 9.50 kW ND

and does anyone know if this means all the time or just a few hours here and there??

I trust the info that I heard here about a few hours here and there.

- Trip

Going back to Friday, June 26,
Anything definite from Kal yet, Gilbert?* Should we be tuning in tonight?

I was just coming here to ask that same question!

I was just coming here to ask that same question!

Hey Everyone,

I don't have Kal's phone number with me at work, but I've emailed him yesterday and today...no reply yet. As soon as I know, I promise you will know. Hang in there!

Edit: found his phone number, got voicemail, left message. Will let y'all know when I do...

According to Trip's Rabbitears.info:

WLS- 07 52 07 ABC Chicago, IL (ABC)

WLS has doubled its power under experimental authority.

* Licensed: 1689' 4.75 kW ND
* Requested: 1689' 9.50 kW ND

and does anyone know if this means all the time or just a few hours here and there??

5-10 minutes at a crack for signal level checks out in the field.

Hello, I was looking around the web today to try to find out why i am having trouble picking up CBS (2) in the chicago land area and stumbled on this site. I hear alot of people having an issue with channel 7 as well but i receive this no problem.

I am currently using a Terk HDTVa. I am receiving every channel i am supposed to but CBS (2). I have tried other antennas as well with less results. The biggest problem is that i dont even know where to start. I have never gotten any picture or any hint of a signal; always at 0. Any ideas?

Hello, I was looking around the web today to try to find out why i am having trouble picking up CBS (2) in the chicago land area and stumbled on this site. I hear alot of people having an issue with channel 7 as well but i receive this no problem.

I am currently using a Terk HDTVa. I am receiving every channel i am supposed to but CBS (2). I have tried other antennas as well with less results. The biggest problem is that i dont even know where to start. I have never gotten any picture or any hint of a signal; always at 0. Any ideas?

1. Go to www.tvfool.com and input your info. Post it here.

2. The terk should be pointed directly at the proper compass direction indicated on tvfool.com. Use a compass.

3. Play around w/the dipoles - different lengths and angles - to find the right signal.

4. How are you set up? Where's the antenna? Splitters? Length of coaxial cable? Type (RG-6 or RG-59)?

Thanks, everyone, for your advice.

Swiat's spot on. One amp should be plenty. Make sure the preamp parts are before all splits. If you split the signal 6 ways, I'd still go with the higher gain amp, because that knocks down 18 db + 1 db for every connector. Every split is a 4 dB loss, minimum.

Just want to be clear -- both preamp parts, the preamp and the power supply need to be before all splits? Thanks.

thanks, everyone, for your advice.



Just want to be clear -- both preamp parts, the preamp and the power supply need to be before all splits? Thanks.

yes

power supply can be after if it goes through a splitter that allows for power to pass through it...

Hello, I was looking around the web today to try to find out why i am having trouble picking up CBS (2) in the chicago land area and stumbled on this site. I hear alot of people having an issue with channel 7 as well but i receive this no problem.

I am currently using a Terk HDTVa. I am receiving every channel i am supposed to but CBS (2). I have tried other antennas as well with less results. The biggest problem is that i dont even know where to start. I have never gotten any picture or any hint of a signal; always at 0. Any ideas?

welcome to our little asylum here....u probably already know this.... but just in case >

before 6/12/09 cbs channel 2.1 was transmitted on ch 3...which was tough to pick up for many people...

but they are now on ch 12 and at higher power....which should be a lot ez'er to receive for many people....so delete cbs (ch 2.1) from your channel list and then do a re-scan....

if u can get abc 7.1 (which is now actually on ch 7, since 6/12/09) then cbs on 12 should be no problem, in most cases....

if not, u'll need to experiment with new locations for that antenna...or a different/better antenna.....

We continue to have a WBBM tech respond to calls and e-mails regarding receiving WBBM. As per the previous post many boxes "remembered" the old channel position so it needs to be deleted. Callers can leave a message at 312-899-2800. Callbacks are done within a few hours.

I see WLS has asked for a fill-in translator on channel 32.

- Trip

I see WLS has asked for a fill-in translator on channel 32.

- Trip

Cross posted here and in the DTV allotments thread:

LOL, WLS wants the translator on the Sears Tower, is that not the very point of the original signal:)

Hello, I was looking around the web today to try to find out why i am having trouble picking up CBS (2) in the chicago land area and stumbled on this site. I hear alot of people having an issue with channel 7 as well but i receive this no problem.

I am currently using a Terk HDTVa. I am receiving every channel i am supposed to but CBS (2). I have tried other antennas as well with less results. The biggest problem is that i dont even know where to start. I have never gotten any picture or any hint of a signal; always at 0. Any ideas?

The antenna is not good for VHF. You should try to get an outdoor antenna.
WBBM uses VHF channel 12. You need a dipole of about 27" to get WBBM. I don' think the Terk antenna has an element that long. They are bordering on false advertising saying this is VHF/UHF. It is much better at UHF and much worse at VHF. Rabbit ears would work better for WBBM than this Terk, I bet.

Cross posted here and in the DTV allotments thread:

LOL, WLS wants the translator on the Sears Tower, is that not the very point of the original signal:)

Hi all,

I have not received word on the test yet, but I did want to make a few comments.

There are things that I can't talk about, but I can say that WLS is looking for reception solutions, more than just raising power on 7. Obviously, you now know one of the solutions WLS is going for.

I haven't seen the app yet (anyone have a link?), but I know it was going to be for 15 kw. That should fix some problems. When WCIU was on 27 at 15.1 kilowatts, I could get them in DeKalb with my ChannelMaster 4228 antenna.
I had interference from 5 mw WKOW-TV 27, but they're gone. The only problem is they have a 200 kw digital 32 (WBUW-DT) in Madison. Northwest suburbs will have trouble picking up WLS on tropo nights when that happens.

http://fjallfoss.fcc.gov/cgi-bin/ws.exe/prod/cdbs/forms/prod/prefill_and_display.pl?Application_id=1319886&Service=LD&Form_id=346&Facility_id=73226

- Trip

WMEU already has an app in there for LD:
http://www.fcc.gov/fcc-bin/tvq?list=0&facid=168662

My guess is this... The immediate city viewers are having trouble with WLS on RF7 so they want a UHF fill-in. If this flies, they must have some arrangement with WMEU to get RF32.

This sucks. I was looking forward to getting WITI for football season so I could watch the Packers lose.
WITI is on RF33. I imagine it will take a hit.

Too bad WOOD isn't moved UHF. Then you could bump up WLS and WPBN's VHF output power. That would solve 2 problems.

Why not move WLS to RF24 with directional antenna? Nearest is WTLJ Grand Rapids. UHF doesn't propagate as well during tropo events and co-channel interference would be minimal.

WMEU already has an app in there for LD:
http://www.fcc.gov/fcc-bin/tvq?list=0&facid=168662

My guess is this... The immediate city viewers are having trouble with WLS on RF7 so they want a UHF fill-in. If this flies, they must have some arrangement with WMEU to get RF32.

This sucks. I was looking forward to getting WITI for football season so I could watch the Packers lose.
WITI is on RF33. I imagine it will take a hit.

Why not just force WOOD to UHF, bump up WLS and WPBN's VHf output power? That would solve 2 problems.
If only the FCC still had engineers instead of lawyers.

Trip: thanks for the link, but 41 is already taken in Chicago by a class-A LP running Korean programming in analog.

Swiat: Because of how digitals work, you should have little to no interference from 32. No worries at all.

As for the app, I don't know if it will fly or not because of WMEU-LD, but WMEU was there first.

Too bad WOOD isn't moved UHF. Then you could bump up WLS and WPBN's VHF output power. That would solve 2 problems.

What UHF channel is available for WOOD that doesn't face massive interference problems? Channel 41 is a maybe, otherwise it's a mess. And I'm not sure LIN would appreciate getting bumped without compensation, and given ABC's attitude, I don't think they'd want to pay to move WOOD. Barrington definitely wouldn't want to do that.

Why not move WLS to RF24 with directional antenna? Nearest is WTLJ Grand Rapids. UHF doesn't propagate as well during tropo events and co-channel interference would be minimal.

30 would be better.

As for the app, I don't know if it will fly or not because of WMEU-LD, but WMEU was there first.

WMEU has an application, not a permit. It may be counted as mutually exclusive, I'm not sure. I'm not sure what the regulations are regarding fill-in translators versus Class A stations.

- Trip

LOL, WLS wants the translator on the Sears Tower, is that not the very point of the original signal:)

Watching ABC's brain-dead corporate decisions come home to roost is certainly amusing! (Grabs popcorn, prepares to hear "oh woe is us" from ABC corporate ninnies.)

WITI is on RF33. I imagine it will take a hit.

Actually, Milwaukee has WITI (FOX), WISN (ABC), and WMVT (PBS) all in a row from 33-35, and there haven't been any real problems because of it.

Northwest suburbs will have trouble picking up WLS on tropo nights when that happens.:rolleyes: Six of one, half a dozen of another.

What - do they think we're just a bunch of hicks who don't watch TV or something? Lots of people with pretty high incomes out in this direction. Also, lots of people without that. In other words, lots of people, period.

What - do they think we're just a bunch of hicks who don't watch TV or something? Lots of people with pretty high incomes out in this direction. Also, lots of people without that. In other words, lots of people, period.

PQ is probably better on WKOW anyway.

- Trip

Actually, Milwaukee has WITI (FOX), WISN (ABC), and WMVT (PBS) all in a row from 33-35, and there haven't been any real problems because of it.

Good point. I must be getting slow.

PQ is probably better on WKOW anyway.
I've never really been able to get the Madison stations (just interference from there). I have been picking WKOW-DT up on occasion since the cutoff on tropo nights - but that ain't what I'd call dependable enough. Madison is probably a hundred miles away from here. But I do get WTVO-DT (45 miles). Still, I would like to be able to watch the local programming on my DMA's ABC station once in awhile.

Since about some time on Monday, I've been getting a pretty strong signal on WSJV. I haven't changed the position of the antenna (meaning I haven't turned the rotor or anything like that) and I believe our antenna is pointing inbetween the Chicago and South Bend markets (but I think it's a bit more towards Chicago than South Bend, since I've been getting all of the Chicago stations in addition to WSJV). I was just surprised I've been getting this channel all the way in Jasper county. Just was curious if anyone else has been getting this channels in the last few days or not.

In my ongoing efforts to RELIABLY pull in WCIU, i had my antenna guy add another 15' to my tower bringing me to 65', which according to TVFOOL is LOS for WCIU. However, I think I may have just amplified the co-channel problem between WCWW South Bend, and WCIU Chicago. when I point the antenna towards Chicago, I get analog 23 Chicago, and analog 25 South Bend, but no digital stations at all. If I turn the antenna towards South Bend, WCWW will peg the meter. Unless WCIU is having a problem right now, it was better when the tower was only 50' tall.:( I can get at least an 80% signal on almost all full power digital Chicago stations EXCEPT for the one I want most! Man, I hope WCWW will change their channel frequency. The question I have is, will increasing the signal strength increase the interference problem? I should add that I am in SW MI 35 miles from SB and 61 miles from Chicago.Thanks.

Steve

:rolleyes: Six of one, half a dozen of another.

What - do they think we're just a bunch of hicks who don't watch TV or something? Lots of people with pretty high incomes out in this direction. Also, lots of people without that. In other words, lots of people, period.

No, but WLS wasn't counting on all of this. What I am wondering, and will ask about...is why they chose 32. 32 already has an application that could trump them, while 26 is open. Although as you have already seen, 26 is a blowtorch AND they just went to 800 kw.

In my ongoing efforts to RELIABLY pull in WCIU, i had my antenna guy add another 15' to my tower bringing me to 65', which according to TVFOOL is LOS for WCIU. However, I think I may have just amplified the co-channel problem between WCWW South Bend, and WCIU Chicago. when I point the antenna towards Chicago, I get analog 23 Chicago, and analog 25 South Bend, but no digital stations at all. If I turn the antenna towards South Bend, WCWW will peg the meter. Unless WCIU is having a problem right now, it was better when the tower was only 50' tall.:( I can get at least an 80% signal on almost all full power digital Chicago stations EXCEPT for the one I want most! Man, I hope WCWW will change their channel frequency. The question I have is, will increasing the signal strength increase the interference problem? I should add that I am in SW MI 35 miles from SB and 61 miles from Chicago.Thanks.

Steve

Hi Steve,

It probably will, but who knows for sure. At 65', WCIU should boom in. Unfortunately, I don't think there's anything you can do about it, unless WCWW changes channels.

According to Trip's Rabbitears.info:

WLS- 07 52 07 ABC Chicago, IL (ABC)

WLS has doubled its power under experimental authority.

* Licensed: 1689' 4.75 kW ND
* Requested: 1689' 9.50 kW ND

and does anyone know if this means all the time or just a few hours here and there??


does this mean people will finally get channel 7.. i can not get it, i live in the city limits near the lake... also what about the channel 26's i see where they are suppose to boost power but how can we confirm that they have done this and that the august of 2009 is still accurate...

i have no problems getting the rest of the chicago stations, including channel 2 and several stations in south bend indiana but i have trouble with 7 ( because of power levels) and with the 26's... however my ota tv is in my kitchen and if i open the cabinet above the tv and with my indoor antenna anc converter box i get them... i can not figure this one out...


please help


mookie

what does this mean:


WCIU-DT : 160 kW - (27) - IND will raise power to 500 kw in 8/2009, with some vertical polarization

please help.. i get all other chicago stations with my indoor antenna that came with the tv 20 years ago and of course my converter box but no channel 26 or channel 7.. channel 7 is a stength of signal issue... also what is about this channel 7 on rf 32..


please help



mookie

Any word from the inside about the channel 32 translator? I ask because I now found an STA application in the FCC database to sign it on ASAP.

- Trip

Any word from the inside about the channel 32 translator? I ask because I now found an STA application in the FCC database to sign it on ASAP.

You're right (http://fjallfoss.fcc.gov/cgi-bin/ws.exe/prod/cdbs/forms/prod/cdbsmenu.hts?context=25&appn=101320032&formid=911&fac_num=73226); they're not messing around with this any longer, are they?

SIMULTANEOUSLY HEREWITH, WLS TELEVISION, INC. IS FILING AN APPLICATION FOR A CONSTRUCTION PERMIT FOR A REPLACEMENT TRANSLATOR TO REPLACE LOST ANALOG COVERAGE ('REPLACEMENT TRANSLATOR CP APPLICATION'). SEE FCC FILE NO. BDRTCT-20090630AFT.

THE INSTANT REQUEST FOR SPECIAL TEMPORARY AUTHORITY IS FILED PURSUANT TO DA 08-2818 TO PERMIT WLS TELEVISION, INC. TO COMMENCE IMMEDIATE OPERATION OF THE REPLACEMENT TRANSLATOR SPECIFIED HEREIN WHILE THE REPLACEMENT TRANSLATOR CP APPLICATION REMAINS PENDING.

What UHF channel is available for WOOD that doesn't face massive interference problems? Channel 41 is a maybe, otherwise it's a mess. And I'm not sure LIN would appreciate getting bumped without compensation, and given ABC's attitude, I don't think they'd want to pay to move WOOD. Barrington definitely wouldn't want to do that.



30 would be better.



WMEU has an application, not a permit. It may be counted as mutually exclusive, I'm not sure. I'm not sure what the regulations are regarding fill-in translators versus Class A stations.

- Trip

WSPY-LP already has analogs on channel 24 (Aurora) and on channel 30 in Plano so I don't know if either 24 or 30 would work for WLS

Low-powered stations are not protected. If WLS wished to leave channel 7 and instead operate only on channel 30, WSPY-LP would have to move.

- Trip

The guide data for Me-Too 26.3/48.1 seems to be off again. It seems to be back to the old schedule and not showing the marathon program data when it's been on. Just wanted to let you know. :)

Guys,

Sorry. I got this message just after I left for church tonight, but...tonight was the night WLS tested. As I type this at 10:25 PM, they are at 9.5 kw, until 10:35 PM.

Sorry. I got this message just after I left for church tonight, but...tonight was the night WLS tested. As I type this at 10:25 PM, they are at 9.5 kw, until 10:35 PM.

I happened to be flipping through the channels a little after 10:30, and I noticed -- with surprise -- that WLS was coming in (with the occasional hiccup). That's the first time it's come in for me since moving to RF7. And then a few seconds after the news ended, it went back to "No Signal." Previously WLS has been at about 30-40% with my current setup (Terk HDTVi into Insignia converter box; northern Buffalo Grove). I didn't have the presence of mind to check the signal while it was working, but usually I don't get a lock unless it's about 55-60%. (As a comparison, WBBM usually doesn't come in, and it's about 45-50% most of the time.)

Manny

Now that it looks like WLS is ready to spend some significant dollars to "fill in" their coverage as a result of returning to RF7 for their DT, what exactly is their economic motivation? I've always assumed that most viewers now receive their primary signal via cable or satellite feed. Does OTA add enough to their viewing audience to make a big difference in the advertising rates they can charge? If not, are they really trying to get a leg up for future mobile TV service?

what does this mean:


WCIU-DT : 160 kW - (27) - IND will raise power to 500 kw in 8/2009, with some vertical polarization

please help.. i get all other chicago stations with my indoor antenna that came with the tv 20 years ago and of course my converter box but no channel 26 or channel 7.. channel 7 is a stength of signal issue... also what is about this channel 7 on rf 32..


please help



mookie

What it means is this: late this summer, WCIU should be tripling its power. Vertical polarization will really help those 20 miles in or closer to the Sears Tower get better reception.

As for channel 7...boosting power on 7 is not going to fix the problem. The reason why I got word of the test too late is that other solutions are being developed and as you can see, WLS-DT isn't desperate...but let's say they're very aggressively going to fix this signal ASAP.

Does OTA add enough to their viewing audience to make a big difference in the advertising rates they can charge?

Ding ding ding. Or, more accurately, cha-ching.

(Terk HDTVi....northern Buffalo Grove).Might want to try amping that a bit with something like a CM 3412 or 3042.

(The HDTVa might've been a better choice.)

As for channel 7...boosting power on 7 is not going to fix the problem. The reason why I got word of the test too late is that other solutions are being developed and as you can see, WLS-DT isn't desperate...but let's say they're very aggressively going to fix this signal ASAP.

I hope they still boost their power in addition to these other solutions though. I wish I had caught they test. I still can't get a picture with it fluctuating between 0 and 38 percent. This along with 20.1 WYCC and 56.1 WYIN are channels I cannot get at all and of course these are channels I watch regularly. I'm stuck with Comcast I guess.

Has 66.1 WGBO done something to improve their signal? Last week their signal dropped off the air and then came back very weak and then we saw them broadcasting on a subchannel (60.2) of WXFT. Now all of a sudden I'm getting 66.1 in at 78% which is the best I've gotten it in to date.

Question about WLS translator on 32. If they get the OK to do this will it affect the WFLD signal any? It won't take from their bandwidth correct?

Question about WLS translator on 32. If they get the OK to do this will it affect the WFLD signal any? It won't take from their bandwidth correct?

It has nothing to do with WFLD since WFLD is on RF (Physical) channel 31. The translator would be on 32.

what does this mean:


WCIU-DT : 160 kW - (27) - IND will raise power to 500 kw in 8/2009, with some vertical polarization

please help.. i get all other chicago stations with my indoor antenna that came with the tv 20 years ago and of course my converter box but no channel 26 or channel 7.. channel 7 is a stength of signal issue... also what is about this channel 7 on rf 32..


please help


mookie
We have not boosted out power yet. Adding some vertical polarization will help with reception closer to the city.

We have not boosted out power yet. Adding some vertical polarization will help with reception closer to the city.

I hope adding power helps with co-channel interference. Evidently I just wasted $300 raising my tower, only to make WCIU totally disappear due to WCWW in South Bend.:mad:

WSPY-LP already has analogs on channel 24 (Aurora) and on channel 30 in Plano so I don't know if either 24 or 30 would work for WLS

I don't see a WSPY in Aurora. All I see from the FCC database on 24 is WHVI Valparaiso IN.
http://www.fcc.gov/fcc-bin/tvq?state=&call=&arn=&city=&chan=&cha2=69&serv=&type=0&facid=&list=2&dist=175&dlat2=42&mlat2=7&slat2=27&dlon2=87&mlon2=47&slon2=13&size=9

what's 37 used for now? I think it is reserved.

24 and 30 seem to be the best "bad" channels given the band congestion.

I believe it's officially called W24AJ licensed to Aurora and broadcasting from just south of Yorkville on analog 24.....same programming as WSPY-TV 30 (automated satellite feed).

I hope adding power helps with co-channel interference. Evidently I just waisted $300 raising my tower, only to make WCIU totally disappear due to WCWW in South Bend.:mad:One possibility: Maybe inquire about a "special" model 3903 Co-Channel Eliminator for UHF ch. 27 from Communications & Energy Company. Another possibility, WWCW ceases analog broadcasting on ch. 25 and moves their digital transmissions from ch. 27 to ch. 25.

As for channel 7...boosting power on 7 is not going to fix the problem. The reason why I got word of the test too late is that other solutions are being developed and as you can see, WLS-DT isn't desperate...but let's say they're very aggressively going to fix this signal ASAP.

Just more for info/curiousity (since I'm not all "digitally inclined"; ha), would 7 even consider going back to 52 to broadcast off of? (Granted, I'm not having any issues with 7, but I was just asking so I could sort of be "in the know" for the people who are having issues with 7.)

Just more for info/curiousity (since I'm not all "digitally inclined"; ha), would 7 even consider going back to 52 to broadcast off of? (Granted, I'm not having any issues with 7, but I was just asking so I could sort of be "in the know" for the people who are having issues with 7.)

They can't go back to 52 since the core broadcast channels are now 2-51, as designated by the FCC (the low-power stations will be getting kicked off). Could they go back to another UHF channel? It's possible, but the FCC would deem that a "new station". Unless WLS could somehow, someway convince them otherwise. It's unlikely, but if they wanted to do it, now would be the time while the iron is hot.

WLS-DT will repeat the "high power" test tonight, Thursday, July 2 from 6:35 PM-10:35 PM CT. They will be at 9.5 kw during this time frame, instead of their normal 4.75 kw. All reception reports welcome! You might want to tune in at 6:30 PM and see how it is, then watch it as they boost power.

They can't go back to 52 since the core channels are now 2-51, as designated by the FCC. Could they go back to another UHF channel? It's possible, but the FCC would deem that a "new station". Unless WLS could somehow, someway convince them otherwise. It's unlikely, but if they wanted to do it, now would be the time while the iron is hot.Oh, that's right. I forgot that 52 was out of that "core range" of channels. But I agree that now is the time to ask/inquire out of ABC 7 if they want something done about their signal and distance/range issues.

WLS-DT will repeat the "high power" test tonight, Thursday, July 2 from 6:35 PM-10:35 PM CT. They will be at 9.5 kw during this time frame, instead of their normal 4.75 kw. All reception reports welcome! You might want to tune in at 6:30 PM and see how it is, then watch it as they boost power.Good deal! I'll see if I can remember to tune in about when "Wheel" is on tonight and see if ours goes up even more than it is. Thanks for the heads up!

Might want to try amping that a bit with something like a CM 3412 or 3042.

(The HDTVa might've been a better choice.)

Indeed. Here's what Kal had to say about last night's test:


I was able to receive our signal (solid) with three types of indoor antenna's in Orland Park. The amplified Terk UHF/VHF model HDTVa, a regular amplified RCA UHF/VHF (rabbit ears) and the RCA flat panel antenna all locked to all signals.


A big note of clarification...Kal doesn't endorse these in any way, he's just saying he got them with those antennas at that location. Your mileage may/will vary. Also, he was unable to get them with any of the antennas before the power boost.

Indeed. Here's what Kal had to say about last night's test:



A big note of clarification...Kal doesn't endorse these in any way, he's just saying he got them with those antennas at that location. Your mileage may/will vary. Also, he was unable to get them with any of the antennas before the power boost.

The power boost of doubling the power will increase signal by 3db. This can go a long way in certain situations. There is also going to be problems that digital will have and analog didn't and all the power in the world will not solve it. Some people are going to have to live with the fact that they may no longer be able to receive certain channels without making major modifications to there receive site or get cable or the like that carries those channels.

As mentioned, WLS is trying to get a translator on Ch. 32, but WMEU also has an app for 32. Pending FCC approval, could WLS and WCIU strike some kind of deal where WLS gets 32 and then Weigel could use 26 for WMEU. Would they just be able to convert the old WCIU analog transmitter for WMEU or am I way off.

what's 37 used for now? I think it is reserved.

Radio astronomy, primarily

Could they go back to another UHF channel? It's possible, but the FCC would deem that a "new station". Unless WLS could somehow, someway convince them otherwise.

Given that having transition problems with a flagship station in one of the country's biggest TV markets (and WLS was only one of several in that boat) looks bad for the FCC PR-wise, I suspect they're going to be quite willing to do all sorts of contortions for WLS if they have to.

WLS-DT will repeat the "high power" test tonight, Thursday, July 2 from 6:35 PM-10:35 PM CT. They will be at 9.5 kw during this time frame, instead of their normal 4.75 kw. All reception reports welcome! You might want to tune in at 6:30 PM and see how it is, then watch it as they boost power.

Last night (around 7-8pm) WLS came in about 15-20% better (from 60's to 80's). I think it's more due to installing my new CM-7777 and turning on the FM trap to help protect the VHF band (specifically WBBM and WLS). Good to know. I'll try to check tonight.

I just spoke to the elderly friend of mine in Sandwich who has been unable to receive WLS since the transition. She told me that WLS worked fine last night until after the news when it went back to no signal. I also noticed my signal meter hitting 100% several times during the evening with almost no break ups, it's never been that high steadily since they switched to rf 7. So, it looks like the power increase tests do show some favorable results even out here in the far west burbs.

For someone who isn't totally up to date on signal technology, can someone explain exactly what it would mean if WLS got a translator on Ch. 32? Would that mean they'd be broadcasting on 2 frequencies (7 & 32)? What makes a translator different from the regular signal/antenna?

Thanks

For someone who isn't totally up to date on signal technology, can someone explain exactly what it would mean if WLS got a translator on Ch. 32? Would that mean they'd be broadcasting on 2 frequencies (7 & 32)? What makes a translator different from the regular signal/antenna?

Thanks

Yes, they'd be on both frequencies. There is no difference; a translator just means they output the same programming on both channels. A lot of channels, especially PBS, have translators in rural areas.

We have not boosted out power yet. Adding some vertical polarization will help with reception closer to the city.

so does this mean a high rise dweller in chicago near the lake will then be able to get your channels without any problems...



mookie

As mentioned, WLS is trying to get a translator on Ch. 32, but WMEU also has an app for 32. Pending FCC approval, could WLS and WCIU strike some kind of deal where WLS gets 32 and then Weigel could use 26 for WMEU. Would they just be able to convert the old WCIU analog transmitter for WMEU or am I way off.

how long with the fcc take to approve this one way or another

We have not boosted out power yet. Adding some vertical polarization will help with reception closer to the city.

when will this be done... is 8/09 still realistic

when will this be done... is 8/09 still realistic

I'll try to answer all 3 of your questions...

1. Will a high rise dweller have any problems near the lake receiving WLS? In Chicago, much less of a problem, but still not trivial. However, channel 32 is a good place to be for most UHF antennas to pick them up.

2. How long will it take the FCC to approve this? I want to stress something here. The translator is an application, so the FCC, IF it finds it satisfactory AND agrees with them about being first banana on that channel,
then they will approve it. But there are two nontrivial---nay, serious---obstacles facing WLS with this application.

A) WMEU-LD applied first; WLS argues that translators of full power stations trump analog low-power companion channels when deciding who gets a channel when two entities have applied for the same channel. I'm not an FCC lawyer, so I don't know if that is valid.

B) The application must be valid and not interfere with anyone. I notice that there's actually more power heading towards Madison, WI, and less due north and west. Yet, they must protect WBUW-DT 32 in Madison. We'll see if the FCC goes for it. Regardless, they must look at the whole thing and make sure there are no problems with it.

IF, and I repeat, IF that goes through, I'm ***guessing*** (did I say ***guessing***) weeks on a timetable. The FCC is fast-tracking as many of these solutions as possible. How in the blue earth WABC-DT in New York City got 30 kilowatts is beyond me, with numerous 7's from other markets around.
So the FCC may be in the mood to make serious concessions.

3) Ask HVStrk. He's holding the power cord. ;):D

***Disclaimer*** Although I haven't been asked to do this, I do want to make clear that even though I'm talking/emailing with WLS about these issues, what I am saying in this and in any post is my opinion only, unless I am quoting directly from an employee there or from anywhere else. Your mileage may vary. Tax, license and docking fees extra. All TV station engineers have whirpools, saunas and massage therapists at their beck and call. The latter is patently untrue. Certain restrictions apply.

A) WLS argues that translators of full power stations trump analog low-power companion channels when deciding who gets a channel when two entities have applied for the same channel. I'm not an FCC lawyer, so I don't know if that is valid.

In the May Report and Order (http://www.fcc.gov/Daily_Releases/Daily_Business/2009/db0504/FCC-09-36A1.pdf) that established the new digital translator service, the FCC says their tentative conclusion is that digital translators that are needed to bring up the coverage area to analog levels get priority over low-power, even if the low-power station filed first.

The exception, however, is in the case of deplacement, in which case the low-power has equal priority.

Of course, it's a "tentative conclusion", so the FCC could always simply change course if they see fit, I suppose...

WLS-TV: Signal in Schaumburg (42.030774, -88.111483) just went from None at All to a kaleidoscopic collection of macroblocked garbage. Channel Master 3020, Winegard AP-8700, 30' Quad-shielded RG-6 downlead.

What a fiasco…guess I'll wait for the Channel 32 Translator Bonus Round…

In the May Report and Order (http://www.fcc.gov/Daily_Releases/Daily_Business/2009/db0504/FCC-09-36A1.pdf) that established the new digital translator service, the FCC says their tentative conclusion is that digital translators that are needed to bring up the coverage area to analog levels get priority over low-power, even if the low-power station filed first.

The exception, however, is in the case of deplacement, in which case the low-power has equal priority.

Of course, it's a "tentative conclusion", so the FCC could always simply change course if they see fit, I suppose...

The move from 46 to 32 for WMEU-LD *was* a displacement, and that's one reason why this is so interesting. OK, folks, WLS at 9.5 kw now...thumbs down in Schaumburg, I see...

Right now, signal strength in Plano is 98-100! SNR is 31.76%. My friend in Sandwich is also now receiving WLS-DT7. I vote to keep the power increase <G>.

Well, 7 had been running about 80-85 for me in DeMotte on our Apex model, and now tonight, it's running about 90-95, so not much but a bit of an increase for me and it's not hiccuping any at all. On our Zenith model, it's hovering right near the "D" in the word "Good" of the signal bar (and same goes for not hiccuping on this model too), so seems pretty good to me! *thumbs up*

100% here in Northbrook on the DirecTV H20.
(same as WGN, WMAQ, WBBM)

about a 5-10% improvement from the usual.

----------------------------------------------
antenna: Radio Schmuck VU-160
preamp: Winegard AP-8700

Here in Geneva west of the Fox River valley I was getting 7.1 in at 47~49 % with significant macro-blocking and stuttering and at 6:32 PM ? it increased to 58~59% with a relatively solid signal with just a bit of minor macro-blocking. I say crank it up to 15 kw. Same goes for 2.1 :D

With the increased power test tonight, I'm getting a picture on 7.x now which is different. Signal meter on the DTT901 CECB has moved from bad up to the middle "fair" position for the most part.

7.3 weather is watchable. 7.1 and 7.2 however are getting too much pixelation and breakup to be watchable.

Another report from Plano, this time on the far south east side using a rooftop Radio Shack antenna. Before the increase test little if any signal and not watchable, with the test going on they have a stable signal in the good range. So, the increase does make some difference.

How in the blue earth WABC-DT in New York City got 30 kilowatts is beyond me, with numerous 7's from other markets around.

I don't see an approval for WABC's 27 kW app yet. It still shows as pending in my searches.

WABC on 7 is actually one of the freer VHF channels in the area, if you can believe that.

- Trip

No dice for me in Crystal Lake. I was fair before but now nada.

WLS-TV: Signal in Schaumburg (42.030774, -88.111483) just went from None at All to a kaleidoscopic collection of macroblocked garbage. Channel Master 3020, Winegard AP-8700, 30' Quad-shielded RG-6 downlead......What a fiasco…guess I'll wait for the Channel 32 Translator Bonus Round…

?....something is wrong with this situation...most anyone in Schaumburg with the monster antenna u have should be getting every chicago channel with no problems! and even more so since u have a very short coax run....

an antenna half that size should work well for u....and without an amp....

i'm guessing something simple to fix is very wrong somewhere in your antenna system....take out that amp....maybe its overloading?

are u having problems with any other chicago channels?

From Genoa City, WI:

Wed, 7/1/09 good signal.
Thur, 7/2/09 good signal until about 9:30. Then everything was pixilated.

Don't have a tivo yet so I can't get a signal strength.

PS: No problems with WBBM.

Antennas Direct C4 ClearStream4 mounted in the attic.l

?....something is wrong with this situation...most anyone in Schaumburg with the monster antenna u have should be getting every chicago channel with no problems! and even more so since u have a very short coax run....

an antenna half that size should work well for u....and without an amp....

i'm guessing something simple to fix is very wrong somewhere in your antenna system....take out that amp....maybe its overloading?

are u having problems with any other chicago channels?

Unless there is an obstruction killing off the signal Shaumburg should fair well.

I know quite a few won't want to hear this but you guys with attic antenna's or indoor antenna's having problems if you can, need to go outside. There is NO BETTER solution then getting the antenna outside. In the attic you loose at least 50% of your signal, and with rabbit ears, etc all bets are off. I have been working with antenna systems since 1972 and have learned quite a few of the pitfalls that happen with weak signal and poor installs. You were able to get away with allot more with analog but with digital forget it. It's all or nothing.

I know some are stuck and can't make any changes. You guys will have to wait and hope for something new in technology to possibly solve your issue down the road. But you guys who are lazy and just don't want to go outside, just do it. You will see a world of difference. :)

along the lakefront in the city of chicago, channel 7.3... the accuweather channel was the best of the three... 7.1 and 7.2 received a better signal but still a pixelation of the picture.. so while higher power levels are good for this it is not the only answer... they still have work to do....


no problems with any other chicago tv station except the 26's and i have a fix for this at least along the lakefront....

any other test for channel 7 that anyone knows about????



mookie

report concerning WLS high power trial from a friend, Mark in Wilmette:
WLS-TV is now showing 27-28 dB s/n. Before this, it was averaging 23 dB. Tell them to keep at high power!

Does anyone know if they're at 80Kw yet?

Does anyone know if they're at 80Kw yet?

They're still at 16 kw as of this morning. I know they wanted to do the antenna replacement this summer, but that was before the CP got approved, and they're going to need a directional antenna now. I know the VP of engineering there and have an email into him to see when they are planning on doing it.

Edit: Got the message back...he (Ben Miller, VP of Engineering) said, "The good news is that we do plan in doing the power increase at WWTO later in the year. There is no date set at this time.". And he also said all their translators are being "sold or dismantled" as few are watching them anymore. That means channels 40 (Sears/Willis Tower), 57 (Elgin), and 22 out of the northwest suburbs and others around Illinois are going off the air soon. That also means Waubonsee college's channel 40 CP low-power digital station will have much less interference now, if and when they decide to build it out.

I'm not sure that it's all of them, though I've definitely heard "most" of them. Two of them flash-cut not too long ago. (K25IA, K41IO)

- Trip

Unless there is an obstruction killing off the signal Shaumburg should fair well.Don't know if this is their problem, but they do have lots of airplanes flying over fairly low from O'Hare.

I'm not sure that it's all of them, though I've definitely heard "most" of them. Two of them flash-cut not too long ago. (K25IA, K41IO)

- Trip

Trip,

They did, but to be sold off...not to continue broadcasting TBN. Here's Ben's direct quote, which I didn't include above:

"The bad news is that we are in the process of selling or dismantling all of our translators."

So there it is, from the horse's mouth.

Trip,

They did, but to be sold off...not to continue broadcasting TBN.

Interesting. It seems wasteful in my mind to go through all that effort.

- Trip

Don't know if this is their problem, but they do have lots of airplanes flying over fairly low from O'Hare.

I'm close to Midway and don't have any problems with Chicago. Although I do have problems when watching South Bend and the winds blow where they route the planes that way. What would be airplane flutter on analog causes breakup on weak digital.

Can anyone confirm or deny if WLS is doing any testing tonight? (Fri, 7/3)

fireworks in sd, wgn should be ashamed!

I didn't get a chance to post before now. During the power boost the other night, my signal went from 69 to 72 (bouncing up to 73 on occasion). Not much of an increase.

This is on a Dish vip722. Not the best receiver for locking in signals.

Orland Park here.

Now that it looks like WLS is ready to spend some significant dollars to "fill in" their coverage as a result of returning to RF7 for their DT, what exactly is their economic motivation? I've always assumed that most viewers now receive their primary signal via cable or satellite feed. Does OTA add enough to their viewing audience to make a big difference in the advertising rates they can charge? If not, are they really trying to get a leg up for future mobile TV service?

Just look at the nielsen ratings the day of the transition. ABC's Charlie Gibson was rated the worst in it's entire history, because Nielsen decided to switch the frequencies it measured at midnight and some of ABC's stations switched at noon.

They later revised the numbers.

I think while it is true that while people have cable or satellite, cable and satellite users watch cable or satellite instead especially for the high margin programs like the news where the affiliates make lots of their money. So the antenna audience is much more important than you would think.

fireworks in sd, wgn should be ashamed!Looked so bad I actually had to turn it off. Was all blurry and ghosty on my HD display.

Looked so bad I actually had to turn it off. Was all blurry and ghosty on my HD display.

I thought ghosts went away with analog :rolleyes:

Hi, I live in Chicago (Lincoln Park) and was wondering if anyone has had success receiving Milwaukee OTA TV from Chicago? My building is 7 stories tall with few (if any) obstructions. Recommended antenna brand and model #'s would be appreciated if you think it is possible.

Thanks much,
Sam

ok....its been 3+ weeks now since we all saw the first hints of all the new sub-channels on ch 23.x and ch 26.5.....and yet there has been no speculation/rumors here at all about what weigel is going put on all these new sub-channels?....i'm amazed! plus they'll have even more capacity if/when they digitize rf ch 48.....

so c'mon guys & gals...any ideas? whats it going to be? 24 hour infomercials? radio/audio channels? or maybe something like RTV aka retro tv?

i love what weigel is doing with all this so far....only PBS is doing anything similarly imaginative and its making most of the other chicago broadcasters look pathetic, in my opinion....i know theres the argument about stealing data bits away from the main hd channel to create sub-channels but personally i'd much rather have more channels/variety than extreme picture quality on fewer channels....

ok....its been 3+ weeks now since we all saw the first hints of all the new sub-channels on ch 23.x and ch 26.5.....and yet there has been no speculation/rumors here at all about what weigel is going put on all these new sub-channels?....i'm amazed! plus they'll have even more capacity if/when they digitize rf ch 48.....

so c'mon guys & gals...any ideas? whats it going to be? 24 hour infomercials? radio/audio channels? or maybe something like RTV aka retro tv?

i love what weigel is doing with all this so far....only PBS is doing anything similarly imaginative and its making most of the other chicago broadcasters look pathetic, in my opinion....i know theres the argument about stealing data bits away from the main hd channel to create sub-channels but personally i'd much rather have more channels/variety than extreme picture quality on fewer channels....

You'll find out soon enough.

You'll find out soon enough.

AAUGH! What's up with That? If all the subchannels are used on 23 they have mapped in, I would say it's going to be an On Demand movie type thing with movies starting at different times. Or you could be putting music channels there. Since 26 is strapped for bandwidth use already I don't see much happening there.

Hi, I live in Chicago (Lincoln Park) and was wondering if anyone has had success receiving Milwaukee OTA TV from Chicago? My building is 7 stories tall with few (if any) obstructions. Recommended antenna brand and model #'s would be appreciated if you think it is possible.

Thanks much,
Sam

When Tropo rocks north I get quite a bit of Milwaukee.

http://www.themusicworkshopchicago.com/satellite/index.html

Look under Photo Gallery for some of My OTA DX I Logged.

I thought ghosts went away with analog :rolleyes:If you can come up with a better word, by all means do. But it looked very similar to the way that "ghosty" analog used to. Not where the overlying images are spaced far apart, but where they're almost even, just ever-so-slighly off from each other.

Wasn't my display, either. I've never had a digital PQ look quite like that on this TV before (50" HD display, not a little set, like many of you guys seem to have here). Normally WGN is sharp as a tack (albeit full of artifacts anytime anything moves fast), so this seemingly was sort sort of anomaly.

I wanted to watch the cubs lose while listening to the Sox win.... Why are WGN and ABC having problems today? All other channels are working fine...

If you can come up with a better word, by all means do. But it looked very similar to the way that "ghosty" analog used to. Not where the overlying images are spaced far apart, but where they're almost even, just ever-so-slighly off from each other.

Wasn't my display, either. I've never had a digital PQ look quite like that on this TV before (50" HD display, not a little set, like many of you guys seem to have here). Normally WGN is sharp as a tack (albeit full of artifacts anytime anything moves fast), so this seemingly was sort sort of anomaly.

Ringing or Out of Phase. Hows that? :)

I wanted to watch the cubs lose while listening to the Sox win.... Why are WGN and ABC having problems today? All other channels are working fine...

I'm also having WGN reception problems. I'm guessing it's due to atmospheric conditions, as I'm somewhat on the fringe of reception.

Ringing or Out of Phase. Hows that? :)Is that what it's called then? Oh, OK.

Apparently my description was good enough for you to know exactly what I was talking about, though.

i love what weigel is doing with all this so far....I don't. Do we really need both MeTV and MeToo?

Wait a minute - I forgot for a split second there - it's not about us.

I don't. Do we really need both MeTV and MeToo?

They load up the subchannels on their WDJT station (CBS) out of Milwaukee, too.

Thus making WBBM the one Chicago station that actually has better PQ than its Milwaukee counterpart.

I'm also having WGN reception problems. I'm guessing it's due to atmospheric conditions, as I'm somewhat on the fringe of reception.

Can't complain too much when you're rocking the Radio Shack $10 antenna :cool:

The general elevation/conditions/whatever in the state line area do lead to some suprising performance out of cheap antennas. I've found myself surprised that I can plop a simple old-school clip-on style UHF bowtie anywhere and it locks on all the Milwaukee UHF stations ~40 miles out no sweat.

Can't complain too much when you're rocking the Radio Shack $10 antenna :cool:

The general elevation/conditions/whatever in the state line area do lead to some suprising performance out of cheap antennas. I've found myself surprised that I can plop a simple old-school clip-on style UHF bowtie anywhere and it locks on all the Milwaukee UHF stations ~40 miles out no sweat.

Yeah this month I'm looking into building my own antenna and replacing the RS Budget.

Is that HSN analog channel 25 now gone for good? The channel's been dead for a couple of days now.

ok....its been 3+ weeks now since we all saw the first hints of all the new sub-channels on ch 23.x and ch 26.5.....and yet there has been no speculation/rumors here at all about what weigel is going put on all these new sub-channels?....i'm amazed! plus they'll have even more capacity if/when they digitize rf ch 48.....

so c'mon guys & gals...any ideas? whats it going to be? 24 hour infomercials? radio/audio channels? or maybe something like RTV aka retro tv?

i love what weigel is doing with all this so far....only PBS is doing anything similarly imaginative and its making most of the other chicago broadcasters look pathetic, in my opinion....i know theres the argument about stealing data bits away from the main hd channel to create sub-channels but personally i'd much rather have more channels/variety than extreme picture quality on fewer channels....

Now here's the kind of discussion I like! Before I go any further It'd be a good idea to say I do not work for Weigel nor am I affiliated with them in any way. They're geniuses so I could never make that claim when it's not true :)

As for the 6 new sub-channels showing up on Channel 23 and the one on 26.5, although we'll find out soon enough what will be on those (and believe me I'm pretty eager and very curious to see what they are myself!) it doesn't hurt to make guesses and speculate just a little so what I'm going to say is PURELY my best guesses, and frankly a few directions I'm hoping they're considering expanding out to at some point.

I'll say this, "What's Up with That?" is an excellent and creative way to pose that question. I am totally stumped on this one. Usually, when there's expansion like this if at all there are some tell tale clues as to what will happen but not this time. So, beyond that all we can do is guess until the time comes to unveil it.

So let's see..they've done MeTV and MeToo for classic TV, This TV for movies so right there it makes it incredibly hard to guess but I'll give my BEST guesses..

The only ways left to branch out that would be a logical next step for expansion would be a channel for Sci-Fi shows and movies..sort of like a local Chicago version of SyFy (Sci-Fi Network's old name) and I just thought yesterday..Cartoon Network isn't really Cartoon Network anymore save for the Adult Swim Block so another possibility is a local version of Cartoon Network..if they did that I guarantee you they'd do something that would make cartoon freaks outside the Chicago area INCREDIBLY jealous. So those are my best guesses, we shall see soon enough if I'm right or if it's something altogether different!

I want to touch on one other topic since we're talking about added subchannels, expansion, etc and that is WJYS. I know especially those of you in the Northern Suburbs STILL either can't get it at all or it's unreliable at the moment until they up their power later this year. It is clear they are not serving the area and especially the city to which they are licensed. It's a sad, sickening disgrace and very difficult to watch. Informercials and religious stuff is not a good use of the station at all. WJYS has been through two owners. The first owners were GREAT and cared alot more about the station than the current ones do. At one time, believe it or not, they were beginning to build a really impressive lineup of shows that included I Dream of Jeannie, Rescue 911, The Rifleman, The Untouchables, The Odd Couple..movies..and on Wednesday nights they used to show Japanese Anime. VERY gutsy and bold move as Japanese Anime doesn't show up on Free TV very often if at all. They were showing a lot of promise and potential at one point. They had a lot of the old WGBO (Channel 66) in them. Interestingly enough, last fall their Wiki page said that after the DTV transition and they get up to full power, the entire area will be able to get them and they will be a Full Market Independent. I swear this is the truth..in the time it took to check something else real quick and go back to that page they had pulled that paragraph out of the Wiki page! They need to change and get back to the potential they were showing at one time. They'll need new owners for that though. I hope for that because it does deserve to live up to that potential. I feel they hit complete rock bottom last Fall when one of the car dealership infomercials was a puppet show!! I kid you not, a half hour long puppet show for one of the car dealerships!

Ok end of my mini book lol..sorry guys, I could fit a few posts easily on my opinion of all the Chicago stations and my memories of our two fallen Independents..WSNS (Yes for those who didn't know it really was English once upon a time) and WGBO (now Univision).

You'll find out soon enough.I respect that HVS is not at liberty to say what That? will be, but I wish he could say when "soon enough" is.

WSNS (Yes for those who didn't know it really was English once upon a time)WSNS started as nothing but text news, in all capitals with lots of typos, and unrelated elevator music as background audio to the slowly scrolling upward, filled in one letter at a time, text.

They really oughta just change the title of this sub-forum to "Local Digital TV Info and Reception, because it seems the talk around here is about 480i subchannels more than anything else.

Is that HSN analog channel 25 now gone for good? The channel's been dead for a couple of days now.

Yep. So here's a question...is anyone seeing anything on physical channel 2?

They really oughta just change the title of this sub-forum to "Local Digital TV Info and Reception, because it seems all anyone talks about here anymore are 480i subchannels.

OK, is anyone noticing at 1 AM that "Crowded House" (the rock band) is on WYCC-DT right now in HD with "Austin City Limits"? To prevent pristine copies from showing up illegally on your favorite video site, WYCC has keyed over "WYCC DT Chicago" at the bottom.

Yep. So here's a question...is anyone seeing anything on physical channel 2?

Snow on analog 2 at city limits. I have been keeping an eye on that. As close as I am with an outdoor antenna I should get something of they were transmitting.