Really, from looking at the programming on their website, RTN only has maybe a couple of shows that we don't already have that I might even watch (at least I've never seen those shows on the WCIU retro channels here - like "It Takes a Thief").

I much prefer the lineup here.

Weigel owns a couple of Milwaukee stations, too, of varying powers (WDJT, WBME, WMLW...), so a good chunk of that stuff is floating around up here already, too [unfortunately much of it siphoning bandwidth off from CBS WDJT, rather than an independent like WCIU].

There's currently something like four-five inactive subchannels on WBME 49 [which is all SD], though, so I imagine more is coming as they likely standardize the programming somewhat across Weigel markets.

62 miles out with Winegard 8200HD & AP8780 on 28ft tower. LG 2007 TV.

I appologize guys I have been out of town for a while. Just checking to see a quick update on WLS power and the FCC. I still have breakups from time to time but the overall average power seems to be improved.

Thanks

Some of the shows like "Thriller" hosted by Boris Karloff, aren't even available on DVD. That's why I like the channel so much.I thought they already showed that one here - but maybe I'm mistaken (maybe I was just thinking of "One Step Beyond").

Weigel owns a couple of Milwaukee stations, too, of varying powers (WDJT, WBME, WMLW...), so a good chunk of that stuff is floating around up here already, too [unfortunately much of it siphoning bandwidth off from CBS WDJT, rather than an independent like WCIU].

There's currently something like four-five inactive subchannels on WBME 49 [which is all SD], though, so I imagine more is coming as they likely standardize the programming somewhat across Weigel markets.Yeah, I'm aware of all that, as I can get most of those channels.

Too bad about WMLW, too. They show Brewers games on the weekend, and that subchannel is so blurry I can barely stand to watch it.

62 miles out with Winegard 8200HD & AP8780 on 28ft tower. LG 2007 TV.

I appologize guys I have been out of town for a while. Just checking to see a quick update on WLS power and the FCC. I still have breakups from time to time but the overall average power seems to be improved.

Thanks


abc/ wls tv has applied to the fcc regarding the issues with there signal... they are awaiting an answer from them... i received this info direct from them....



mookie

Too bad about WMLW, too. They show Brewers games on the weekend, and that subchannel is so blurry I can barely stand to watch it.

Do you mean the simulcast on 58-2 (edit: wrote 49-2 - oops!)? You're not kidding.

That has to be about the worst PQ I've ever seen from digital OTA. Dark, blurry; the games on FoxSportsNet (using the same production team and equipment) don't look that bad, so it's not a source problem.

Really, from looking at the programming on their website, RTN only has maybe a couple of shows that we don't already have that I might even watch (at least I've never seen those shows on the WCIU retro channels here - like "It Takes a Thief").

I much prefer the lineup here. More, older "film noir" B&W (and late 60's color) sci-fi and detective suspense dramas (and comedies, like "Get Smart" - possibly the funniest sitcom ever made). I really don't care as much for a lot of those color shows from the late 60's, 70's and 80's (like "Charlie's Angels", "The A-Team", etc.). Most of those are too schlocky for my tastes. I do always get a kick out of Dragnet's (and Jack Webb's) unintentionally square humor, though. The "Blueboy/Benji Carver" episode is considered one of the all-time greatest TV classics, and for good reason. One of the most hilarious things I've ever seen.

(I had a great link about the show, Webb and that particular episode, but I don't think they'd allow it. Anyway, just Google "acid logic - dragnet" - it should be the first site on the list.)


How about new shows on WCIU network or the RTV network?

Dallas ran for 357 episodes. They could show a new episode every day and not go through the whole series in a year. And the spin off Knot's Landing went for 344 episodes. That would be a good 1-2 punch for 2 of the most popular prime time soaps of the 70's/80's. There is a huge following for both those shows, complete with fan forums with more than a million posts.

The Love Boat had 255 episodes and would be fun to watch just to see who is the guest star. Ditto for the original Fantasy Island.

The only knock on some stations that air reruns is they can go through a whole series in a couple months, and over 2 years they might air the same series from start to finish 5 or 6 times. It may not be a bad idea to change shows every now and then, after one has been seen start to finish more than 3 times.

How about new shows on WCIU network or the RTV network?

Dallas ran for 357 episodes. They could show a new episode every day and not go through the whole series in a year. And the spin off Knot's Landing went for 344 episodes. That would be a good 1-2 punch for 2 of the most popular prime time soaps of the 70's/80's. There is a huge following for both those shows, complete with fan forums with more than a million posts.

The Love Boat had 255 episodes and would be fun to watch just to see who is the guest star. Ditto for the original Fantasy Island.

The only knock on some stations that air reruns is they can go through a whole series in a couple months, and over 2 years they might air the same series from start to finish 5 or 6 times. It may not be a bad idea to change shows every now and then, after one has been seen start to finish more than 3 times.


might this be the plan for the new " that" tv????


mookie

explain that one to my wife, please. :d

lol :)

might this be the plan for the new " that" tv????


mookie


That's gonna be music channels I think.

i talked to Retro Television Network on facebook and they told me they are working on it we hope to see it real soon

I thought they already showed that one here - but maybe I'm mistaken (maybe I was just thinking of "One Step Beyond").

They do show it on WCIU, That's the channel I was talking about.:) Now if I could only get the night fade issue resolved. Some guy on another forum told me to mount another antenna 2' below and 12" to the side of my existing one and the night fade would disappear, guaranteed. We'll see what happens when they go to full power, hopefully soon.

They do show it on WCIU, That's the channel I was talking about.:) Now if I could only get the night fade issue resolved. Some guy on another forum told me to mount another antenna 2' below and 12" to the side of my existing one and the night fade would disappear, guaranteed. We'll see what happens when they go to full power, hopefully soon.

Sounds like diversity receive. Works great in the microwave world, not sure about the OTA world.

i talked to Retro Television Network on facebook and they told me they are working on it we hope to see it real soon

Great I wonder what channel will pick them up locally? Was watching RTV tonight on satellite great channel.

What would be ideal would be if they replaced one of the PAX subs with it and reduced 38-1 back to 480i to make RTV look better.

(I literally never watch any of the PAX channels as it is, anyway.)

What would be ideal would be if they replaced one of the PAX subs with it and reduced 38-1 back to 480i to make RTV look better.

(I literally never watch any of the PAX channels as it is, anyway.)

PAX or ION now is a waste for the most part. They have more channels then they actually broadcast here in Chicago. I get 2 muxes with 8 to 10 channels per mux on C band. When I used to watch them a couple years ago they played some old B&W retro tv in the middle of the night that never showed here.

I'm not sure who will pick up RTV? Whoever does will be competing with Weigel's retro stuff in the same market. Could get interesting what Weigel will air to keep viewers with them.

oh i wanted to ask which affilate do you think RTV could be picked up will be in the chicagoland area real soon.I would like to see it as a local channel on our directv system.

WCPX is a waste. Other than afternoon M*A*S*H repeats, a movie or two, and some Sunday religion programs, they are just an infomercial channel.

Aon building looks a little taller today. I drove past and noticed what appears to be a three bay FM antenna mounted on top of a brand new UHF DTV stack. WDRV-FM (97.1) has a CP for a new antenna system at 370 meters, and 25.1 (VHF 2) has a CP for the same location and HAAT. Could they be planning on sharing the antenna? VHF Low & FM's have been known to share in the past. Mom always taught us to share. Dad always taught us to collect rent. :D

Great I wonder what channel will pick them up locally? Was watching RTV tonight on satellite great channel.

Well, I could be wrong but I can't see our CBS, NBC or ABC affiliates picking this up for a new sub channel. Doubtful WGN will either...

No way Weigel is going to do it, not with what they have now and it would be like inviting a direct competitor into their own house and space. The only possibilities left I can think of would be our Fox affiliate..ION might be another possibility. I honestly have a funny feeling it will end up a subchannel on Channel 50 for some reason. With them being a MyNetwork affiliate I could see them being the least likely to have a problem carrying RTV as an affiliate. One other distant possibility and that would probably help their ratings enormoudly would be WJYS. However they STILL are covering only the Southern half of the area and I imagine RTV wants to have as close to 100 percent coverage for the area as possible. So, if I were to take a guess where they will end up, it'll be a subchannel of Channel 50. I was actually hoping we'd finally get RTV here and it looks like it's gonna happen.

Someone said it will be interesting to see how Weigel will compete to keep their viewers...it will be very interesting to say the least and putting it mildly. I love what you guys have done and I praise you to no end for it but honestly competition and more choices are good for everyone. They better pray a LOT that ION doesn't go belly up or WJYS doesn't decide to go General Market again once they increase power cause my feeling is one or the other's gonna happen. There's room for one more true Independent here and I think it'll happen in the next year or so. But I welcome that, the more choices in general we all have to pick from the better ;)

Aon building looks a little taller today. I drove past and noticed what appears to be a three bay FM antenna mounted on top of a brand new UHF DTV stack. WDRV-FM (97.1) has a CP for a new antenna system at 370 meters, and 25.1 (VHF 2) has a CP for the same location and HAAT. Could they be planning on sharing the antenna? VHF Low & FM's have been known to share in the past. Mom always taught us to share. Dad always taught us to collect rent. :D

New master antenna for Bonniville radio. WDRV, WTMX, etc..... Not sure if it has provisions for anyone else in the TV spectrum.

good morning i would like to see RTV have their own station eventually as a subchannel or their own indepdent channel.i love to watch metv every day on our directv dish and if RTV would become their own channel and many of us who own directv or dish would call them and request them to pick up the channel.i would be a happy camper.

Allen

good morning i would like to see RTV have their own station eventually as a subchannel or their own indepdent channel.i love to watch metv every day on our directv dish and if RTV would become their own channel and many of us who own directv or dish would call them and request them to pick up the channel.i would be a happy camper.

Allen

One of the biggest problems with cable or the pizza pan services is you are at there mercy to what you can and can't get. With an OTA antenna or real satellite dish system (C band or Ku FSS) you control what you watch. The funny thing is you would be paying to watch RTV on a sub based system. I can get it for free with east and west coast feeds.

BTW WITI in Milwaukee is now up and running on 6.2 with RTV. I saw that last night when I Dx-ed Milwaukee.

http://www.tvnewsday.com/articles/2009/07/23/daily.5/

here is an article about the new local channels that stared carrying RTV i would like to see one in the Chicagoland area real soon

just wondering... any updates on the situations with wls tv ( channel 7) and wciu ( channel 26) and its substations in chicago... are they going to have there power upped anytime soon so everyone can watch them even in a high rise and an indoor antenna...


thanks to all who reply



mookie

Does anyone know if Cool-Tv possibly would be picked up in Chicago? Since the Tube left on Channel 9.2 we need that void filled. Does Weigel have any plans with all those "That" test cards?

There's a lot of advice on this forum advising against using RG-59 coaxial cable. I just bought a DVR, a DTVPal DVR, and included in the box was a short length of RG-59 coax. I was surprised by this. I did not use it to connect the DVR. But I was wondering, if the issue with RG-59 -- as I understand it -- is greater signal loss over distance, is a short length (say, a foot) of RG-59 going to make a difference? Is the issue really that RG-59 should not be used for long runs?

To connect the DVR, I took the RG-6 connecting my FM tuner to the splitter, and used the RG-59 for that connection. The radio sounds fine.

In general, RG-6 is better cable. RG-59 is fine for patch cables and OTA as long as it is in good condition.

There are different levels of RG-6 as well, but most does not affect OTA. It is when you get into satellite and cable that RG-6 is pushed to and often past it's limits (with RG-59 hitting limits before that).

More in this old thread ...
http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=699887

There's a lot of advice on this forum advising against using RG-59 coaxial cable. I just bought a DVR, a DTVPal DVR, and included in the box was a short length of RG-59 coax. I was surprised by this. I did not use it to connect the DVR. But I was wondering, if the issue with RG-59 -- as I understand it -- is greater signal loss over distance, is a short length (say, a foot) of RG-59 going to make a difference? Is the issue really that RG-59 should not be used for long runs?

To connect the DVR, I took the RG-6 connecting my FM tuner to the splitter, and used the RG-59 for that connection. The radio sounds fine.

I would recommend staying away from it as much as possible. Although a foot probably wont kill ya, anything over a jumper should be avoided.

Does anyone know if Cool-Tv possibly would be picked up in Chicago? Since the Tube left on Channel 9.2 we need that void filled. Does Weigel have any plans with all those "That" test cards?

Haven't heard of cool-tv. The "THAT" channels are just there to spark up conversation. :D (just kidding)

Haven't heard of cool-tv. The "THAT" channels are just there to spark up conversation. :D (just kidding)

http://www.thecooltv.com/index.php

You guys need to get your hands on it. :)

There's a lot of advice on this forum advising against using RG-59 coaxial cable. I just bought a DVR, a DTVPal DVR, and included in the box was a short length of RG-59 coax. I was surprised by this. I did not use it to connect the DVR. But I was wondering, if the issue with RG-59 -- as I understand it -- is greater signal loss over distance, is a short length (say, a foot) of RG-59 going to make a difference? Is the issue really that RG-59 should not be used for long runs?
As other noted, for short lengths, it should be OK. Just be careful of the center conductor, as it's much thinner and easier to be bent over and smashed if you aren't careful. Also, some of these cables come with push-on F-connectors that don't work well. On the other hand, I've seen TV's where the RF input had no threads, just bumps.

http://www.thecooltv.com/index.php

You guys need to get your hands on it. :)

Whoa, their website looks a helluva lot nicer (and there's sort of actual content now) than it did when the channel launched on WTMJ.

WOCK has an application to go omnidirectional on Channel 4. It seems kind of silly to run such a directional pattern with WTMJ out of the picture.
http://www.fcc.gov/fcc-bin/FMTV-service-area?x=DC1320024.html

Also, the pattern for WOCH on Channel 49 is pretty directional as well (although not as bad as WOCK's). However, WOCH Analog 41 seems to have decent coverage for a low power. Couldn't they just flash cut on 41 with a similar pattern as the analog or would that not work.

WOCK has an application to go omnidirectional on Channel 4. It seems kind of silly to run such a directional pattern with WTMJ out of the picture.
http://www.fcc.gov/fcc-bin/FMTV-service-area?x=DC1320024.html



Good, let them send there power someplace else.

week end wee hours on THIS tv has started showing
"sea hunt" with lloyd bridges -
praise be for something other than patty duke and mr. ed reruns
now if MeToo can just add it in .....

kd9fz
comments, criticisms and questions of sanity are always welcome

several thought trains chugging by -

so life with the loop / rabbit ear combo and wbbm / wls reception ..
what i wonder about is that the antenna has separate 300 ohm twin lead
from each antenna for about 2 feet - i have both connected to the
300/75 xmfr then connected to the dtt-901
seems if i move the twin lead there is an effect on reception as well
was having thoughts of replacing twin lead with short rg-6 and xmfr put
into antenna it self ... wonder worth the effort

another train chugging by
the dtt-901 comes with a 44 inch coax cable marked
SELL COAXIAL CABLE 2.5C-2V 75 OHM Cd/Pb/Hg FREE
so what is it ? rg-59 ? rg-6? something worse?

yet another train coming through
my dtt-901 is a june 2008 build and is on about 20 hours a day for the last year
i have the 'vents' both top and botton well exposed - no real heat issue
but --- what about the remote ? i channel surf and have already worn off
the printing and used up batteries ... anyone hear of the remotes going bad yet?

kd9fz
comments,criticisms and questions of sanity are always welcome

week end wee hours on THIS tv has started showing
"sea hunt" with lloyd bridges -
praise be for something other than patty duke and mr. ed reruns
now if MeToo can just add it in .....Well, what most people would do nowadays is set an unattended recording of it from THIS TV, and watch it when they want.

Much better solution for us than them adding more subchannels just to show the same programming they already show on the other ones, while degrading the picture quality further. ;)

Maybe something like this would be a worthwhile investment for someone like yourself: http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=1099071.

Or this: http://www.www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=1054933.

They both have built-in, over-the-air digital tuners, and you can fill up the hard drives with recordings to your heart's content, and watch the stuff whenever you want. The second suggestion even contains a built-in DVD burner, so you can archive the recordings (after editing out the commercials). You can do that with the first one, also, with a separate recorder - can't edit within the DVR, though.

i have the 'vents' both top and botton well exposed - no real heat issue
but --- what about the remote ? i channel surf and have already worn off
the printing and used up batteries ... anyone hear of the remotes going bad yet?There are reasonably cheap aftermarket, universal remotes out there which will control it.

I believe it uses an LG Direct TV satellite tuner/DVR code - I think some of the newest Philips remotes may carry the code - but don't hold me to that - best to check the Zenith threads in the CECB sub-forum here.)

If they won't control all the buttons, there are a few inexpensive "learning remotes" out there, too.

Maybe something like this would be a worthwhile investment for someone like yourself: http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=1099071.



Has the quality & user experience gotten better with these? I seem to recall you railing against this device, something along the lines of 'not ready for prime time' based upon your reading of others experiences with it when it was first released.

several thought trains chugging by -

so life with the loop / rabbit ear combo and wbbm / wls reception ..
what i wonder about is that the antenna has separate 300 ohm twin lead
from each antenna for about 2 feet - i have both connected to the
300/75 xmfr then connected to the dtt-901
seems if i move the twin lead there is an effect on reception as well
was having thoughts of replacing twin lead with short rg-6 and xmfr put
into antenna it self ... wonder worth the effort

another train chugging by
the dtt-901 comes with a 44 inch coax cable marked
SELL COAXIAL CABLE 2.5C-2V 75 OHM Cd/Pb/Hg FREE
so what is it ? rg-59 ? rg-6? something worse?

yet another train coming through
my dtt-901 is a june 2008 build and is on about 20 hours a day for the last year
i have the 'vents' both top and botton well exposed - no real heat issue
but --- what about the remote ? i channel surf and have already worn off
the printing and used up batteries ... anyone hear of the remotes going bad yet?

kd9fz
comments,criticisms and questions of sanity are always welcome

1. Actually, the twin-lead (300 ohm) cable IS the antenna. Rather than shield signal, it actually picks it up. Which is why it was nasty to use in urban areas when I was growing up. Never figured out why I had a faint black bar on the left side of my screen, until I used RG-6. So, don't replace it with RG-6, unless you want your signal to go down in a heinous fashion!

2. RG-59. I replaced mine with RG-6.

3. I have heard one DTT-901 overheat and die, but no widespread problems that I have heard of...and that's typical of how remotes are.

There are reasonably cheap aftermarket, universal remotes out there which will control it.

I believe it uses an LG Direct TV satellite tuner/DVR code - I think some of the newest Philips remotes may carry the code - but don't hold me to that - best to check the Zenith threads in the CECB sub-forum here.)

If they won't control all the buttons, there are a few inexpensive "learning remotes" out there, too.

I use a philips aftermarket universal 4 device remote purchased at walmart. it uses the zenith sat/dtv code of 0267 to control the DTT901

I use a philips aftermarket universal 4 device remote purchased at walmart. it uses the zenith sat/dtv code of 0267 to control the DTT901Thanks. Does it control the menus, too?

Has the quality & user experience gotten better with these?Sounds like it's gotten better with the latest firmware update.

s--- what about the remote ? i channel surf and have already worn off
the printing and used up batteries ... anyone hear of the remotes going bad yet?

I have a OneForAll universal remote that I programmed through the jp1 interface to add in the codes. It has all the keys, including signal, FAV, etc... The Comcast silver remotes use jp1.x, and you could program the DTV on the AUX key if you wanted.

The marathon data for the MeToo marathons seems to be "missing" again when I tuned in today. Maybe you could look at this hvs10trk?

my dtt-901 is a june 2008 build and is on about 20 hours a day for the last year
i have the 'vents' both top and botton well exposed - no real heat issue
but --- what about the remote ? i channel surf and have already worn off
the printing and used up batteries ... anyone hear of the remotes going bad yet?One of my Zenith remotes is starting to sorta ''fade'' on a button or two, but nothing more. I got a replacement for it, for like 4-5 bucks, if it does really ''fade'' horribly on me.

Sounds like it's gotten better with the latest firmware update.

hmm, I'll have to start paying a little closer attn. to it then.

Thanks. Does it control the menus, too?

Yes, it does.

Breaking news: WLS has petitioned to change channels, presumably giving up channel 7 for another channel. The FCC database does not yet reflect which channel, but we will know in about six hours.

- Trip

Breaking news: WLS has petitioned to change channels, presumably giving up channel 7 for another channel. The FCC database does not yet reflect which channel, but we will know in about six hours.

- Trip

You beat me to it, trip. The suits in NYC woke up and smelled the coffee.
All options were on the table; now the FCC just has to approve it. This is so recent, I haven't had a chance to talk with Kal about it. Stay tuned...

Breaking news: WLS has petitioned to change channels, presumably giving up channel 7 for another channel. The FCC database does not yet reflect which channel, but we will know in about six hours.

- Trip

So where do they go? If UHF, pickings be very slim where they won't be causing co channel interference to another market or getting adjacent channel interference from another local.

Then there is the cost of antenna and transmitter modifications. And when all that is said and done testing to see if it works. I wouldn't get my hopes up that this will solve ALL the issues out there now and am sure it will create new ones. Lot of homework needs to be done.

Breaking news: WLS has petitioned to change channels, presumably giving up channel 7 for another channel. The FCC database does not yet reflect which channel, but we will know in about six hours.

- Trip

Is it channel 32?

http://www.fcc.gov/Daily_Releases/Daily_Business/2009/db0707/DOC-291886A2.txt

IL BDRTCDT-20090630AFT WLS-TV 73226 WLS TELEVISION, INC. Construction permit for a
E CHAN-32 CHICAGO, IL DTV Replacement Translator
for callsign WLS-TV.

The magic number is channel 44.

WLS wants 473.33 kW ND at 1689' on channel 44.

When the paperwork shows up on the FCC site, I'll link it here.

Actually, I was betting it would be channels 30 or 39. 44 is a surprise only because I thought they'd have to wait til WWAZ is fully approved for channel 5 first...

- Trip

The magic number is channel 44.

WLS wants 473.33 kW ND at 1689' on channel 44.

When the paperwork shows up on the FCC site, I'll link it here.

Actually, I was betting it would be channels 30 or 39. 44 is a surprise only because I thought they'd have to wait til WWAZ is fully approved for channel 5 first...

- Trip

They probably got approval from WWAZ. They will have to protect Total Christian Television on 44 in Grand Rapids, but oh well. Michigan is not their first concern. This will triple their power, and then some, that they had on 52, with less interference.

My bet last night (didn't want to make this public) was 44, with approval from WWAZ.

This will triple the power they had on 52, and with lower frequency, the antennas will pick them up better. This would be a HUGE coup for WLS, if they can ram this through.

A friend of mine suggested this to me, and I hadn't thought of it. Could WLS be recycling WSNS's analog gear?

- Trip

44...? I don't know... 38 is on 43, and 44 is on 45, ought to play havoc with all of them being adjacent.

Adjacent channels are fine in digital, so long as they're co-located, which these are.

Observe Milwaukee with 33/34/35. Or Los Angeles that's about to have 31/32/33/34/35/36.

- Trip

The magic number is channel 44.Thank you.  Now the question is when the magic day will be.

Didn't WCHU want 44?  Well, they can have something else when eventually they go digital.
Actually, I was betting it would be channels 30 or 39.39 is in use by WWME-LD.

So is WLS dropping its request for a supplementary signal on 32, then?

39 is in use by WWME-LD.

As an LD, it is subject to being bumped if a full-service station wants the frequency. I don't think companion channels like WWME-LD are eligible to have Class A protection. They'll have to eventually displace the channel 23 license up to 39 and have the LD canceled. If I'm understanding properly, that is.

So is WLS dropping its request for a supplementary signal on 32, then?

I would guess so. As far as I can tell, it's still pending...

- Trip

Adjacent channels are fine in digital, so long as they're co-located, which these are.

Observe Milwaukee with 33/34/35. Or Los Angeles that's about to have 31/32/33/34/35/36.

- Trip

Right. I wouldn't worry about adjacents. As long as they are co-located and have similar power levels. LA already has:

23/24, 28/29, 31/32, 34/35/36, 38/39, 41/42/43, 47/48/49

23's move to 33 will create a much larger block as Trip has noted.

Adjacent channels are fine in digital, so long as they're co-located, which these are.

Observe Milwaukee with 33/34/35. Or Los Angeles that's about to have 31/32/33/34/35/36.

- Trip

By co-located do you mean the same tower or the same city?
Those three in Milwaukee are each on their own tower. 34 is about 2-3 miles from 33 & 35 and plays havoc with viewers who live closer to the towers. Unless constantly moving an indoor is considered fun?

They have to be located within 14 miles as an FCC rule, but in reality it's more like 5 miles to prevent interference. The FCC rule is "less than 0.5% interference" according to their computer calculations. The closer the stations are, the better off you are. Same tower is best.

Indoor antennas are terrible for digital no matter the distance. Any little thing can cause problems. In Roanoke, I found myself having to move my antenna on a regular basis regardless of which UHF channel I was looking at.

- Trip

Adjacent channels are fine in digital, so long as they're co-located, which these are.

- Trip
As long as they really are co-located. We have two pairs of adjacent channels in the Pittsburgh area. Channels 42 and 43 are on the same tower and there doesn't seem to be any problems there. Channels 50 and 51 are located several miles apart (but within the distance considered acceptable by the FCC) and there are lots of reception complaints about the local ABC affiliate on 51. It could just be the hills around here but maybe the FCC should have taken terrain into account as far as co-location is concerned.

It could just be the hills around here

I think it is. WTAE is in a rather nasty spot and not even on the top of their tower.

- Trip

good news on wls now all they need to do is get the fcc to approve and get the antenna up.. how long can this take...


also the spreadsheet from falcon 77 shows higher power for wciu and cp which i guess means construction permit.. when will this permit be acted on so they can make the adjustment and get there signal up to full 550 kw power...


keep up the great info



mookie

They probably got approval from WWAZ. They will have to protect Total Christian Television on 44 in Grand Rapids, but oh well. Michigan is not their first concern. This will triple their power, and then some, that they had on 52, with less interference.

My bet last night (didn't want to make this public) was 44, with approval from WWAZ.

This will triple the power they had on 52, and with lower frequency, the antennas will pick them up better. This would be a HUGE coup for WLS, if they can ram this through.


this is great news.. when will we finally get channel 7 on whatever rf frequency... in time for college football or over the winter...

The magic number is channel 44.

WLS wants 473.33 kW ND at 1689' on channel 44.

When the paperwork shows up on the FCC site, I'll link it here.

Actually, I was betting it would be channels 30 or 39. 44 is a surprise only because I thought they'd have to wait til WWAZ is fully approved for channel 5 first...

- Trip

is the request up on the fcc website... i can not wait to actually be able to watch wheel of fortune and lost....

Actually, I was betting it would be channels 30 or 39.Wasn't RF30 used for digital WSBT 22 for a while until they went back to RF22? Hmm, you'd think that RF30 would be pretty much constructed from WSBT before and it wouldn't need much work for WLS if they'd thought of that number. I mean, wouldn't that have been easier for WLS to consider going on RF30, instead of trying to mess with WSNS's RF44 transmitter and build a whole new unit? That makes sense to me, but then again, maybe I'm missing something; just my thought.

good news on wls now all they need to do is get the fcc to approve and get the antenna up.. how long can this take...


also the spreadsheet from falcon 77 shows higher power for wciu and cp which i guess means construction permit.. when will this permit be acted on so they can make the adjustment and get there signal up to full 550 kw power...


keep up the great info



mookie

Mookie,
Things are moving for us, just not at the pace we first thought. I will post when things happen. We can't just crank up the power knob. There is quite a bit that has to be done before we're at 550kw. Not to mention this isn't the only major project going on.

http://fjallfoss.fcc.gov/prod/ecfs/retrieve.cgi?native_or_pdf=pdf&id_document=7019933971

Here's the magic document!

- Trip

http://fjallfoss.fcc.gov/prod/ecfs/retrieve.cgi?native_or_pdf=pdf&id_document=7019933971

Here's the magic document!

- Trip

I had noticed from the filename the FCC referred to (before they posted the document, but when they had a listing for WLS on 44) that this was filed 5 days ago. The document stamp obviously confirms that.

Does it always take that long of a turnaround from being accepted to first popping up on the FCC site?

It usually varies between 3 and 5 days, yes.

Remember, too, that the FCC doesn't work on Saturday or Sunday. So if it was filed Friday afternoon, then it actually took until today to get posted, which is about three business days.

- Trip

Remember, too, that the FCC doesn't work on Saturday or Sunday.

Oops! Momentarily forgot that the 24th was a Friday.

/smack

http://fjallfoss.fcc.gov/prod/ecfs/retrieve.cgi?native_or_pdf=pdf&id_document=7019933971

Here's the magic document!
Substitute 7 for 44? Doesn't that seem like it was written backwards? WLS is trying to substitute 44 in the place of 7. Or as the FCC put it in their approval of WHME's move in South Bend "We believe the public interest would be served by substituting DTV channel 46 for DTV channel 48." 48 moves to 46.

I assume the FCC will understand. :)

Substitute 7 for 44? Doesn't that seem like it was written backwards? WLS is trying to substitute 44 in the place of 7. Or as the FCC put it in their approval of WHME's move in South Bend "We believe the public interest would be served by substituting DTV channel 46 for DTV channel 48." 48 moves to 46.

I assume the FCC will understand. :)

A lot of FCC documents contain mistakes like that. You'd be surprised. Or maybe you wouldn't.

- Trip

A lot of FCC documents contain mistakes like that. You'd be surprised. Or maybe you wouldn't.I try to keep them mistakes out of my filings. :D

A lot of FCC documents contain mistakes like that. You'd be surprised. Or maybe you wouldn't.


Why are notes in the ``Exhibits'' section of the on-line FCC CDBS documents WRITTEN IN ALL UPPERCASE? Is the applicant trying to make sure the FCC pays attention by SHOUTING? :-)

Hi,

I have a stealthtenna with preamp 26.5 miles northwest of the city. The antenna is mounted outdoors on my garage roof. My cable run has a single splitter and about 50ft of shielded coax.

While on vacation, my signals levels fell drastically. On my Tivo receiver, the levels for most of the locals fell from the low 90's to the mid 60s. When I test the signal strength, I can unplug the preamp power supply and not change the signal strength. Does this indicate a dead preamp by definition? Replacing the preamp is a bit expensive, so I wonder if there is a way to prove the preamp is alive or dead?

Is there some other failure I should consider?

Thanks in advance,

Dave

Substitute 7 for 44? Doesn't that seem like it was written backwards? WLS is trying to substitute 44 in the place of 7. Or as the FCC put it in their approval of WHME's move in South Bend "We believe the public interest would be served by substituting DTV channel 46 for DTV channel 48." 48 moves to 46.

I assume the FCC will understand. :)


Actually, the filing states, in part...

"Specifically, the Petitioner requests substitution of WLS's current post-transition digital allotment, VHF channel 7, for UHF digital channel 44 with the technical parameters set forth in the attached Engineering Statement."

Source: Page 2 of 25, final paragraph, of the linked PDF of the Petition.

It is clear that the petition states quite clearly WLS's desire to move their DTV broadcast facility from VHF channel 7, to UHF channel 44.

:eek:

Actually, the filing states, in part...Actually it states TWICE at the beginning of the document that they want to substitute 7 for 44 in the table of allotments. This is in the cover letter as well as in the FIRST paragraph of their petition. It is stated correctly eventually, but not in the opening where it draws the most attention. It is probably written right more often than wrong by the Mickey Mouse lawyers who wrote the petition. But it certainly starts out wrong.

The bigger issue is the provisional nature of the request. If the Fond du Lac petition is denied this petition is moot. With Canadian concurrence it could take a while to get all the steps approved. But at least there is a plan.

So, we go back to the way things used to be, and nothing has really changed.

Very few people can still get WBBM reliably. :(

Actually it states TWICE at the beginning of the document that they want to substitute 7 for 44 in the table of allotments. This is in the cover letter as well as in the FIRST paragraph of their petition. It is stated correctly eventually, but not in the opening where it draws the most attention.

How about a direct quote then?

Cite your source.

So, we go back to the way things used to be, and nothing has really changed.

Very few people can still get WBBM reliably. :(

I get WBBM a lot more reliably now. They're not 100% but I can see them and signal locks now.

So, we go back to the way things used to be, and nothing has really changed.

Very few people can still get WBBM reliably. :(

I thought WBBM was doing so well. I guess we all forgot about Channel 3.

I have no problems in the past or present with Channel 2 and 7 so really can't comment on any issues by me. I always used a good outdoor antenna setup. The ones that seem to have issues are in a fringe area, use an inside antenna, or use a old beat up antenna system. Let's face reality here. Digital is a different beast, it has bugs and will never work like analog. Bad signal, multipath, etc cause you to hit the digital cliff. When you hit it all bets are off. No matter how much stations do only so much will be achieved, some people will have to look to alternative methods for there programming.

The bigger issue is the provisional nature of the request. If the Fond du Lac petition is denied this petition is moot.

It's in the NPRM stage, so it will most likely be approved unless WWAZ withdraws their request or someone important enough complaints.

With Canadian concurrence it could take a while to get all the steps approved. But at least there is a plan.

Canadian concurrence is not required for Chicago stations as far as I can tell. If it does, then the last coordination document I saw is missing a few lines.

- Trip

How about a direct quote then?

Cite your source.


Sounds like the lawyer who drafted the document simply wrote it backwards (twice). The body of the document makes the intention of the filing crystal clear.

It's nothing short of obscene what the ION network is doing in terms of running promotional banners which highlight their (apparently) important future programming, i.e., "NCIS coming soon to weekdays"(sic).

I was tuning in to the station this past week to see how they were doing with HD content, viewing their HD movies such as Batman (w/ M. Keaton) and Training Day, for example. For these and a couple other programs I had tuned in for, ION left this promo info up on the screen for the entire duration of the programs! :eek:

Granted, the verbiage is in small white typeface but it hardly excuses the obnoxious audacity of the act. Talk about a viewer being yanked out of any approximation of suspended disbelief! :rolleyes:

At least when the major networks do it, they only leave it up for several seconds when coming back from commercials. But this?... unreal.

It's nothing short of obscene what the ION network is doing in terms of running promotional banners which highlight their (apparently) important future programming, i.e., "NCIS coming soon to weekdays"(sic).

I was tuning in to the station this past week to see how they were doing with HD content, viewing their HD movies such as Batman (w/ M. Keaton) and Training Day, for example. For these and a couple other programs I had tuned in for, ION left this promo info up on the screen for the entire duration of the programs! :eek:

Granted, the verbiage is in small white typeface but it hardly excuses the obnoxious audacity of the act. Talk about a viewer being yanked out of any approximation of suspended disbelief! :rolleyes:

At least when the major networks do it, they only leave it up for several seconds when coming back from commercials. But this?... unreal.


ion network in chicago is a complete waste of time, outside of the 3-4 hours of network programing, old movies and series it is all informercials all the time... how about local programming and more then 4 hours of programming a day...

ion network in chicago is a complete waste of time, outside of the 3-4 hours of network programing, old movies and series it is all informercials all the time... how about local programming and more then 4 hours of programming a day...

Ion, I, PAX has been that way for years. At least years ago they had better shows and more hours. Now it's infomercials for the most part. They don't care about you the viewer they want the money they get from airing these. What really ticks me off is when you see infomercials on big 3 network channels during the day. Also how most every cable channel has 6-10 hours a day of these and your paying for those channels. :mad:

I was tuning in to the station this past week to see how they were doing with HD content, viewing their HD movies such as Batman (w/ M. Keaton) and Training Day, for example. For these and a couple other programs I had tuned in for, ION left this promo info up on the screen for the entire duration of the programs! :eek:

Granted, the verbiage is in small white typeface but it hardly excuses the obnoxious audacity of the act. Talk about a viewer being yanked out of any approximation of suspended disbelief! :rolleyes:
You must not watch much cable! That is pretty much the norm on most channels these days. Their logos constantly morph, and almost always advertise upcoming shows. At last most are learning to keep it very pale. For awhile, SciFi was not transparent enough, and ruined the closing episodes of SGA with obnoxious text for new Ghost Hunters.

ion network in chicago is a complete waste of time, outside of the 3-4 hours of network programing, old movies and series it is all informercials all the time... how about local programming and more then 4 hours of programming a day...

They have some very good movies. Batman, Hard To Kill, Cocktail, Blazing Saddles, Training Day, Dave, Soldier, Unlawful Entry. If they show good programming people will watch. I can not imagine very many people watch infomercials. Infomercials must be there to hold a space until they get the rights to a series or more movies.

How about a direct quote then?

Cite your source.The source and direct quote were in the post you posted you objection to. Perhaps you failed to read the beginning of the document and skipped ahead to the fun stuff? Start on page one and you'll get it (maybe).

Canadian concurrence is not required for Chicago stations as far as I can tell. If it does, then the last coordination document I saw is missing a few lines.See page 17 of the document you linked ... "Proposed facility is within the Canadian coordination distance" "Distance to border = 369.9 km."

For WLS I don't expect a problem with Canada as 44 in Fond du Lac would cause the same if not more interference to Canadian reception. Has coordination been done with WWAZ-DT's move to channel 5?

See page 17 of the document you linked ... "Proposed facility is within the Canadian coordination distance" "Distance to border = 369.9 km."

For WLS I don't expect a problem with Canada as 44 in Fond du Lac would cause the same if not more interference to Canadian reception. Has coordination been done with WWAZ-DT's move to channel 5?

Canadian concurrence is not required for WWAZ. If a proposed channel change requires Canadian coordination, it is always mentioned in the NPRM. I searched the document for "Canad" and got no results.

No Chicago or Milwaukee allotments were included in the last Canadian Letter of Understanding, which leads me to believe that the Canadians are not a concern.

- Trip

Was just flipping through the channels and came across Telemundo HD and it actually looked good!! I am very impressed in the detail. That is what HD should look like!

Was just flipping through the channels and came across Telemundo HD and it actually looked good!! I am very impressed in the detail. That is what HD should look like!

While I've no problem with regular SD stuff I will say I have to agree, the picture quality on WSNS really is outstanding..when I can get it that is. But when I do get it's signal well, it's like those Spanish women jumped right out of your tv and are actually standing in your living room ;) That's how good their picture quality is.

For WLS I don't expect a problem with Canada as 44 in Fond du Lac would cause the same if not more interference to Canadian reception. Has coordination been done with WWAZ-DT's move to channel 5?

If so, it would be a waste of time, in all likelihood :)

We ARE talking about a station in WWAZ that's been off the air for over a year-and-a-half, went bankrupt, and is now owned primarily by the creditors.

Grand plans of moving to Milwaukee or not, I'll be suprised if it does return to the air anytime soon.

I get WBBM a lot more reliably now. They're not 100% but I can see them and signal locks now.I said reliably - not more reliably than before - meaning 100% reliably.

The ones that seem to have issues are in a fringe area...I didn't realize 40 miles was considered fringe.

I also get most of the UHF stations at 95-100%.

You might reread his post. He says it's not 100%. :)

- TripI took that to mean 100% signal strength.

If he's not getting them reliably, why would he say his signal locks?

I took that to mean 100% signal strength.

Why would he say "They're not 100%" and follow that up with "and signal locks now"?

My signal for WBRA-DT 3 started locking a week or two ago, but it goes out in storms and skip and whatnot. Thus, it's not 100% [reliable].

That's how I took it.

- Trip

Was just flipping through the channels and came across Telemundo HD and it actually looked good!! I am very impressed in the detail. That is what HD should look like!

Telemundo is uplinked by NBC. They run very high quality on there backhauls. NBC is also very good until channel 5 gets it and bitstarves it.

I didn't realize 40 miles was considered fringe.

I also get most of the UHF stations at 95-100%.

In my 37 years of experience installing antenna's anything over 25 -30 miles is where I would consider problems start. This is going by analog standards. Remember even though digital looks perfect when locked 100 miles out, many things are going on with the signal under the hood. You just don't notice it in the picture till you start to fall off the cliff.

In my 37 years of experience installing antenna's anything over 25 -30 miles is where I would consider problems start. This is going by analog standards. Remember even though digital looks perfect when locked 100 miles out, many things are going on with the signal under the hood. You just don't notice it in the picture till you start to fall off the cliff.

My parents are over 40 miles out from a 800kW station that is 100% perfect for them down a valley without LOS to the tower. (they get 100% signal strength and a signal quality up around 94-98%) UHF honestly seems a lot better further out, so long as one is not in a huge hole. Of course at my parents I installed a 91XG with Channel Master preamp 35ft AGL, so it an above average setup.

So what sort of time frame are we looking at for WLS to relocate from RF7 to RF44?  I've no idea how fast or how slowly these things move.  Six months, two years, five years?

Hey guys maybe you all can help me, I am in Kenosha, transplanted here from chicago, and I want my HD locals, right now I am using a Radio shack Model: DA-5200 small antenna.

nothing special just had it down there.
That being said in Kenosha I can get WFLD,NBC SOLID but surely thats not enough. No CBS,WGN,ABC and so on

So I need a new antenna or suggestions which may give me signals, I am about 6-7 blocks west off the lake close to "downtown" Kenosha.

At about 50 miles from Chicago transmitters, you've got your work cut out for you. You're going to need a BIG antenna as high up as you can get it with a good pre-amp. You might as well throw in a rotor so you can get Milwaukee, too.

Have you considered paying for a professional install or are you really handy?

anyone know when RTV could be coming to the Chicagoland Area?

I am fairly handy, most likely could do it myself, but whats weird is this little antenna gets GREAT signals maxed out for FOX and NBC, that what has me looking for a good antenna now that I could install as you said with a preamp.

I installed a 91XG with Channel Master preamp 35ft AGL, so it an above average setup.

If you had a small antenna at 20 feet I bet results would change. As you get further away you need more height and head. Some people are blessed with results that work well on a coat hanger when most won't.

anyone know when RTV could be coming to the Chicagoland Area?


OTA who know's. Available today on DVB-FTA on the AMC-9 satellite.

http://www.lyngsat.com/amc9.html

Soric, I live in Antioch, which isn't quite Kenosha, but rather close nonetheless. I'm using a DB-4 to pick up Chicago stations. I would recommend you consider that or the DB-8 (or ChannelMaster variants - 4221 and 4228 I believe). Put the antenna in the attic and use a compass to point it towards the Chicago transmitters. Go to tvfool.com if you haven't already so you know the exact compass direction. It'll also explain why you're getting FOX and NBC. If you're using a bunch of splitters, consider getting an amplifier (I am using a ChannelMaster 7777).

Note that you will most likely not be getting Milwaukee stations unless you removed the reflector, which is easy to do on the DB models; not sure on the CM models.

Note that you will most likely not be getting Milwaukee stations unless you removed the reflector, which is easy to do on the DB models; not sure on the CM models.

Thanks for the info, Ill check it out, as far as Milwaukke locals I get them on Directv so no worries about their channels.

So what sort of time frame are we looking at for WLS to relocate from RF7 to RF44?* I've no idea how fast or how slowly these things move.* Six months, two years, five years?

Probably two-six weeks for the FCC to make a decision, then implementation time, however long that may take (if approved).

Thank you, ProjectSHO89.

I was sent TSReader data for most of the Chicago stations this morning. I'm going backwards from WGBO down to WBBM, and I just got to WPWR. Something weird is going on there.

First of all, WPWR is running Mobile DTV. 5 NoG, too.

Second, there's a hidden SD video feed. What could be on it?

- Trip

Well, I finished updating Chicago for the stations I was sent (still missing WOCK and WYIN) and WPWR seems to be the only real oddity. WCIU's bitrates make my brain hurt though.

Is there anyone who could catch me about 20-30 seconds of WPWR's whole stream and then upload it to me?

- Trip

Antenna Reception Report: Indoors, 25 miles out, Wheeling, IL

Success

I've been trying for about a year to get indoor reception and I finally did it.

I just got my Clearstream C5 high vhf antenna from FedEx this morning. I put it together and hooked it up. It came with a vhf/uhf combiner, but I just wanted to try the antenna quickly so I didn't bother with that yet.

Holding it up with my arms, I was able get to 2,5,7,9,11,20,26, 32 & 50 without doing any fine adjustment. (I just checked the english channels quickly that's all I care about.)

Finally, 2 and vhf 7. I haven't been able to get them ever.

It seems to get great UHF reception. Better than my HDTVi, but I haven't looked at the raw numbers to compare to my C2. I'll post some screenshots of the reception quality with my HDHomerun later today after I get it all set up.

On another note. Does anyone want to buy a lightly used Clearstream 2 antenna. (j/k)

Well, I finished updating Chicago for the stations I was sent (still missing WOCK and WYIN) and WPWR seems to be the only real oddity. WCIU's bitrates make my brain hurt though.WWME's six channels of "That" catches the eye (all the same 0.80 Mbps video). It is neat to see how the streams cross on WCIU (1 HD, 5 SD and 2 maps). "That?" is just a slate ... a screen that says "What's up with That?" with a moving background so 0.80 Mbps is enough. The 352x480i FBT Chicago Ethnic TV feed saves bandwidth by cutting the screen width in half and stretching it to fit!

WHCH-LD out of Chesterton is an odd one too. 14.94 Mbps video ... SD. Only WFLD uses more than that for their HD channel in Chicago (18.04 Mbps). WGN is close with 14.64 Mbps. WWME-LD has 16.49 Mbps as NULL, but I expect that will be divided up between all of the That channels when there is something more than a slate being broadcast.

What is up with "That?" I like the sense of humor. Wiegel had "WRDY" calls on a couple of stations (one at a time) that were "ready" for other content. Having 'this' and 'that' now I wonder when they will put up 'the other thing'.

Non-compressed SD video is 15 Mbps in MPEG-2. So apparently they're feeding straight SD with no compression on WHCH-LD. WDRL, a local independent station where I live, does the same thing.

Keep in mind, too, that the variable bitrates mean that WBBM probably spikes to 18 Mbps during high motion scenes (when it's needed) and then drops down when it isn't. The other stations with variable bitrates do the same thing.

- Trip

For those who live close enough to the Hancock building to receive WOCK in digital ...
Is 13.1 usually a blank blue screen?

For those who live close enough to the Hancock building to receive WOCK in digital ...
Is 13.1 usually a blank blue screen?

I've seen that.

For those who live close enough to the Hancock building to receive WOCK in digital ...Is 13.1 usually a blank blue screen?

yes....13.1 almost always just a blank blue screen with whats possibly a frozen rectangular 'cursor' (like an old dos pc might have had) in the upper left corner.....my guess is its a dvb satellite receiver in standby mode or maybe locked up with no signal.....

i think there may have been some video on 13.1 several weeks ago.....nothing since then as far as i know....

13.2 is always active tho....with KBS ....korean broadcasting system, i think.....

yes....13.1 almost always just a blank blue screen with whats possibly a frozen rectangular 'cursor' (like an old dos pc might have had) in the upper left corner.....my guess is its a dvb satellite receiver in standby mode or maybe locked up with no signal.....

i think there may have been some video on 13.1 several weeks ago.....nothing since then as far as i know....

13.2 is always active tho....with KBS ....korean broadcasting system, i think.....

I'm down in the South Suburbs, so my reception of 13.1 and 13.2 is hit and miss. When I can get them it is at night usually. They're pretty weak stations, but even when I can get them the PQ and sound quality are decent. I haven't gotten 13.1 recently enough to see the blank blue screen, but I can confirm there was an actual video signal on there a few weeks ago. 13.2 is indeed Korean. 13.1 when it had video I believe was Korean as well. I just wanted to let you all know that 13.1 did have an actual video/audio feed as recently as a few weeks ago.

Good tropo this morning, not sure if anyone else noticed.

Good tropo this morning, not sure if anyone else noticed.

Gotta love a warm front to our south. :) Madison and Milwaukee were like locals out here this morning.

Good tropo this morning, not sure if anyone else noticed.


Didn't check till now. Only thing locking at noon here is WSBT. Maybe tonight will be good.

Good tropo this morning, not sure if anyone else noticed.I wonder if that's why I couldn't get WBBM at all last night? Even on my TiVo HD at the main TV, which I usually never have any trouble getting it on.

The signal level was registering so low, I thought there might be something wrong at the transmitter or something. It was very unusual.

I thought it might be tropo, but I couldn't get anything further away, either. Usually, I can at least get WYIN in the early morning hours when that's happening.

Actually, many of the channels were coming in at lower levels than usual.

I wonder if that's why I couldn't get WBBM at all last night? Even on my TiVo HD at the main TV, which I usually never have any trouble getting it on.

The signal level was registering so low, I thought there might be something wrong at the transmitter or something. It was very unusual.

I thought it might be tropo, but I couldn't get anything further away, either. Usually, I can at least get WYIN in the early morning hours when that's happening.

Actually, many of the channels were coming in at lower levels than usual.

Definetly could be the reason why. The band was pretty quiet last night by me though, it wasn't until this morning did things get going. Hopefully we will see more tonight too, the maps look good. I didn't see any Milwaukee channels this morning (which is very unusual) but Quad Cities and Madison were strong. 18-1 out of Quad Cities is always the strongest.

Anyone considering the 4228HD or DB-8 antenna might want to read this first:

http://www.hdtvprimer.com/ANTENNAS/TemporaryPage.html

Anyone considering the 4228HD or DB-8 antenna might want to read this first:

http://www.hdtvprimer.com/ANTENNAS/TemporaryPage.html

I fail to see how the new CM4228HD is a "wreck". First of all, minus one channel, gain is over 13dB (and on channel 24, it's 12 dB--weird, but more than acceptable). And, you get a good response on the VHF-HI band. Yes, it's a few dB down from the old 4228, at the expense of good gain on channels 7-13, as I can attest to. I didn't like that idea at first, but having now seen it in action, I like it.

The FCC says a "proper antenna" has a 6 dB gain on VHF-HI, and 10 dB on UHF. Except for one channel, it exceeds it by a whopping 50%, or 3 dB,
and on many it's above that. Push the feedpoint back just a bit, and you gain 1 dB on many channels, bringing it extremely close to the old 4228, with its improvements on 7-13.

WLS's PRM for channel 44 is on hold. WWAZ's petition to relocate to channel 5 has received three different sets of comments in opposition, including from WGVK-DT 5 across the Lake. They're linked off my site's Channel Change Requests page (http://www.rabbitears.info/chchg.php) when you scroll down to WWAZ.

- Trip

WLS's PRM for channel 44 is on hold. WWAZ's petition to relocate to channel 5 has received three different sets of comments in opposition, including from WGVK-DT 5 across the Lake. They're linked off my site's Channel Change Requests page (http://www.rabbitears.info/chchg.php) when you scroll down to WWAZ.

- Trip

I'm not surprised about WGVK. I wish I had a link to the comments so I could see them. How do you get to that point anyway on the FCC site?

I linked to the comments off my Channel Change page if you search the page for WWAZ. It says "Comments by WGVK."

Otherwise, if you're a glutton for punishment, you have to search for the docket number 09-115 on the ECFS Comment Search.

- Trip

I fail to see how the new CM4228HD is a "wreck".

Push the feedpoint back just a bit, and you gain 1 dB on many channels, bringing it extremely close to the old 4228, with its improvements on 7-13.Exactly. He did say it needs to be modified to get better performance.

why is wls prm on hold?
WLS wants channel 44 ... they can't have it because another station holds a license for channel 44 to the north. It doesn't matter that the other station has been off the air for most of the last 18 months or more (they have returned to the air long enough not to lose their license). As long as channel 44 Fond du Lac holds channel 44 all other broadcasters must protect it.

Antenna Reception Report: Indoors, 25 miles out, Wheeling, IL

Success

I've been trying for about a year to get indoor reception and I finally did it.

I just got my Clearstream C5 high vhf antenna from FedEx this morning. I put it together and hooked it up. It came with a vhf/uhf combiner, but I just wanted to try the antenna quickly so I didn't bother with that yet.

Holding it up with my arms, I was able get to 2,5,7,9,11,20,26, 32 & 50 without doing any fine adjustment. (I just checked the english channels quickly that's all I care about.)

Finally, 2 and vhf 7. I haven't been able to get them ever.

It seems to get great UHF reception. Better than my HDTVi, but I haven't looked at the raw numbers to compare to my C2. I'll post some screenshots of the reception quality with my HDHomerun later today after I get it all set up.

On another note. Does anyone want to buy a lightly used Clearstream 2 antenna. (j/k)

Reading about it, I didn't think it was supposed to get any UHF? I'm about 60 miles away. I have the old DB8 for UHF reception and it works great. I get all channels you mentioned above with the exception of 2 and 7. It's only mounted about 8 feet in the air also. It did get 7 until the switchover.

Do you guys think this clearstream 5 would be a good choice for me for 2 and 7? I doubt I would get away with an attic mount but, outside is ok. According to antennas direct the range is 65+ plus miles. Just a quick google search the lowest price I see is $83. Can it be had cheaper?

If there is a better choice for me, I'm all ears.

WLS wants channel 44 ... they can't have it because another station holds a license for channel 44 to the north. It doesn't matter that the other station has been off the air for most of the last 18 months or more (they have returned to the air long enough not to lose their license). As long as channel 44 Fond du Lac holds channel 44 all other broadcasters must protect it.


so now what happens with those of us who can not get wls channel 7... is it back to the drawing board or do they negotiate with the station who is not broadcasting....


please let me know... college football is coming up and i want to be able to watch it...


mookie

yes i am aware of this... it does not mean that i can not ask if there is an update or not...
Nothing wrong with asking but demanding an answer with threats is very rude. It makes one want to just skip over your posts and leave you in the dark.

The CP for WCIU expires 08/25/2011. The upgrade will be done between now and then.

so now what happens with those of us who can not get wls channel 7... is it back to the drawing board or do they negotiate with the station who is not broadcasting....


please let me know... college football is coming up and i want to be able to watch it...


mookie

I guess you could go with a VHF antenna

I see the previous posts about a possible hitch in WLS' plans to move to 44. However, I see WCPX and WWRS in Mayville, WI are both on 43. Mayville is south of Fond Du Lac, so if those two stations can exist on Ch. 43 why can't WLS and WWAZ both exist on 44?

Nothing wrong with asking but demanding an answer with threats is very rude. It makes one want to just skip over your posts and leave you in the dark.

The CP for WCIU expires 08/25/2011. The upgrade will be done between now and then.

As for your channel 7 problems ... time for me to move on to nicer people. :)

I know HVS mentioned several times the work on WCIU would be sometime in August. However, it sounded like it wasn't just increase the wattage and walk away. It sounded like a pretty major project, so I can see where no date would be given in case they run into unforeseen problems.

I see the previous posts about a possible hitch in WLS' plans to move to 44. However, I see WCPX and WWRS in Mayville, WI are both on 43. Mayville is south of Fond Du Lac, so if those two stations can exist on Ch. 43 why can't WLS and WWAZ both exist on 44?

Because the interference rules are different now. The FCC allowed 2% interference during the transmission. Now the limit is 0.5% interference.

- Trip

re WLS wanting to move to ch 44 from ch 7 theres a lot of interesting items in this document from TRIP in VA's link >

http://fjallfoss.fcc.gov/prod/ecfs/retrieve.cgi?native_or_pdf=pdf&id_document=7019933971

amongst other things mentioned there i am curious about these 3 >

'Proposed facility OK to FCC Monitoring Stations
Proposed facility OK toward West Virginia quite zone
Proposed facility OK toward Table Mountian'

1 - what are 'FCC Monitoring Stations'? i know it may sound self-explanantory but why would it be a factor in this case and need to be mentioned here?

2 - i think the 'West Virginia quite zone' is the GREENBANK radio astronomy telescope site that prevents any station from being on ch 37 anywhere in the USA.... if so, ch 44 is 7 channels away and so many miles away that interference is pretty much impossible, i would think.....

3 - what is 'Table Mountian'? and what does it have to do with WLS changing channels? or with any other US tv station?

with these and many other complicated and inter-twined engineering issues its a miracle any station gets on the air ....wow!

anybody have any knowledge about these things?

I can't speak to the FCC monitoring stations.

The West Virginia quiet zone is actually not limited to channel 37. All radio and TV transmissions must protect that site. Only diesel vehicles are allowed to go there because gasoline vehicles produce too much electrical noise. Lots of stations north of me have to protect it. It's just a check that's run on all applications by the automated software.

As for Table Mountain: http://www.its.bldrdoc.gov/table_mountain/index.html

Again, a blanket check of all stations by the software.

- Trip

I know HVS mentioned several times the work on WCIU would be sometime in August. However, it sounded like it wasn't just increase the wattage and walk away. It sounded like a pretty major project, so I can see where no date would be given in case they run into unforeseen problems.Directional antennas are fun ... even more so when you put the antenna on the tallest building in the US.

Yeah, turning up the power is easy (if the transmitter can handle the TPO), changing the direction that the power goes in is not so easy. :)

I know HVS mentioned several times the work on WCIU would be sometime in August. However, it sounded like it wasn't just increase the wattage and walk away. It sounded like a pretty major project, so I can see where no date would be given in case they run into unforeseen problems.

Major is an understatement. :eek:

Directional antennas are fun ... even more so when you put the antenna on the tallest building in the US.

Yeah, turning up the power is easy (if the transmitter can handle the TPO), changing the direction that the power goes in is not so easy. :)

Lots of tin foil. :D

I guess you could go with a VHF antenna


how do i do this in a high rise???

Lots of tin foil. :D

Yeah, I thought you could just put some pie tins around the antenna and be done with it! :D

how do i do this in a high rise???

Why don't you try making twinlead dipole (http://hf-antenna.com/003/) and taping it to your window? For channel 7, the horizontal piece should be about 32 inches long (16 inches per side).

As usual, you'll have to play around with the positioning -- but you should eventually be able to find a sweet spot where you get enough signal for a lock. If it works by itself for 7 (it will probably work OK for 2 as well), then you can use a VHF/UHF combiner to connect it and your UHF antenna to your TV.

I guess you could go with a VHF antenna

the antenna that i currently have is vhf/uhf combined... still no signal.. it is the lack of power and trouble getting into hi rises with wls...

While we're vaguely on the Weigel station front, WDJT 58 out of Milwaukee started broadcasting a promo loop on 58-4 for the other Milwaukee Weigel channels.

Unknown what's going there (but it's a pixelated mess when I checked it out - not surprising, as that'd make three subchannels and a main 1080 CBS channel).

Yeah, I thought you could just put some pie tins around the antenna and be done with it! :D

hmmmmm.........how pie tins reflect RF. Sounds like a good experiment. :D

A number of unproductive posts have been removed. We now return to your regular programming.

Here is an update, August is not looking likely for us. We've come across a few bumps in the road. Things are still moving along just not as quickly as we would like.

how do i do this in a high rise???

Sound like you need a pair of amplified VHF/UHF rabbit ears that don't suck. try and google CNET for user reviews.

Sound like you need a pair of amplified VHF/UHF rabbit ears that don't suck. try and google CNET for user reviews.Google & CNET?

Why wouldn't you refer them to a better source of info?

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=1037779

I've referred people to that thread before, and they've come back and told me that there isn't much info on VHF. I went and checked closely myself, and they were right. EV says he doesn't generally test for that. Don't know why, since so many stations have switched back there now.

Tried to talk to him about it, but he still doesn't seem too interested.

I've referred people to that thread before, and they've come back and told me that there isn't much info on VHF. I went and checked closely myself, and they were right. EV says he doesn't generally test for that. Don't know why, since so many stations have switched back there now.
Not in Charleston, SC where EV is located according to his profile.

I've referred people to that thread before, and they've come back and told me that there isn't much info on VHF. I went and checked closely myself, and they were right. EV says he doesn't generally test for that. Don't know why, since so many stations have switched back there now.

Tried to talk to him about it, but he still doesn't seem too interested.

He only has one high-VHF PBS channel (and only since this Feb of year) that is 45 miles away.

Hard to do any indoor testing with that condition.

WWAZ replied to all comments involved.

They're linked off my channel change page (http://www.rabbitears.info/chchg.php).

- Trip

Here is an update, August is not looking likely for us. We've come across a few bumps in the road. Things are still moving along just not as quickly as we would like.

<tongue in cheek>

Butbutbut why not!?? Come on already, I need my 24/7 That TV and I need it now! NO I don't want to buy a new antenna! The bent-up paper clip I had shoved in the back of my U-matic worked just fine before and it doesn't work now so you must have changed something! I know all you have to do is push a button to up your power to sixty million watts; my cousin who works in tv advertising told me so! Those guys in Colorado are already doing it on channel 54, so why can't you guys just move up there and worry about the FCC later? :D:D:D

</tongue in cheek>

<tongue in cheek>

butbutbut why not!?? Come on already, i need my 24/7 that tv and i need it now! no i don't want to buy a new antenna! The bent-up paper clip i had shoved in the back of my u-matic worked just fine before and it doesn't work now so you must have changed something! I know all you have to do is push a button to up your power to sixty million watts; my cousin who works in tv advertising told me so! Those guys in colorado are already doing it on channel 54, so why can't you guys just move up there and worry about the fcc later? :d:d:d

</tongue in cheek>

lol. :d

Google & CNET?

Why wouldn't you refer them to a better source of info?

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=1037779

This is the worst commonly given advice on AVS!!

There is no serious review of vhf for most antennas in this review. Chicago is a market where people have trouble receiving vhf. EV is in a UHF only market.

His results do not apply to our market in a very meaningful way! Please don't recommend this thread to the people here.

However, that does not mean that reviews in other places are that great either.

Well, if EV isn't even going to try to get that one hi-VHF station, then they should at least take the thread out of the sticky section IMO, because it's not that relevant to anywhere near as many people's situation anymore.

I get one hi-VHF station from 45 (WREX) and two from (nearly) 41 (WBBM, WLS) miles away with an amplified indoor antenna's rabbit ears.

Reading about it, I didn't think it was supposed to get any UHF? I'm about 60 miles away. I have the old DB8 for UHF reception and it works great. I get all channels you mentioned above with the exception of 2 and 7. It's only mounted about 8 feet in the air also. It did get 7 until the switchover.

The Clearstream C5 comes with a combiner so you can use your DB8 for UHF and the C5 for VHF. They aren't marketing it's UHF abilities, but it might get them. If you already have an antenna, then they include the hardware to use both. So it shouldn't matter to you.

My experience with the antenna is that it gets 2 and 7 well and no other antenna that I have tried from my indoor location would. And I have tried very hard.

I recommend buying from a place with a decent return policy. The only way we'll really find out what antennas work well in an area is if more people try them and submit reports. If it doesn't work return it.

The Clearstream C5 comes with a combiner so you can use your DB8 for UHF and the C5 for VHF. They aren't marketing it's UHF abilities, but it might get them. If you already have an antenna, then they include the hardware to use both. So it shouldn't matter to you.

My experience with the antenna is that it gets 2 and 7 well and no other antenna that I have tried from my indoor location would. And I have tried very hard.

I recommend buying from a place with a decent return policy. The only way we'll really find out what antennas work well in an area is if more people try them and submit reports. If it doesn't work return it.

Thanks for the reply. I did read about the combiner and all that. I was thinking though, it would be nice to have only one antenna. I'm kind of hesitant with reading that channel 7 may end up back on UHF. I don't know if it's worth the hassle and money to buy another antenna for just channel 2. Combine that with the fact that I'm farther out than you, I can't be positive I would get channel 2. Other people around here have with those big conventional antennas mounted up on a tower so, I probably could. Decisions, Decisions :D

Other people around here have with those big conventional antennas mounted up on a tower so, I probably could. Decisions, Decisions :D

If I could have a big outdoor antenna, then I would. It is the way to go, if you can do it.

If I could have a big outdoor antenna, then I would. It is the way to go, if you can do it.

Height makes might, and bigger is always better :D

With some area tropo extending to the north this morning around 9:15 a.m. EDT while I was driving north out of Indy on U.S. 31, a couple of auto scans on the Digital Stream CECB found several stations close to or over 100 miles.....and this was while the car was moving at approximately 63 miles per hour.

I had a Channel Master 4221 UHF antenna sitting upright on the backseat (facing north) and this was connected to the DS CECB. I was not using a preamp. While driving at 63 MPH, I hit the "Update" scan a couple of times. It logged:

WFLD-DT 31, Chicago, IL @ approx. 130 miles
WPWR-DT 51, Chicago, IL @ approx. 130 miles
WYIN-DT 17, Gary, IN @ approx. 110 miles (transmitter in Cedar Lake, IN)
WSBT-DT 22, South Bend, IN @ approx. 90 miles
WSJV-DT 28, Elkhart/S. Bend, IN @ approx. 90 miles
WNIT-DT 35, South Bend, IN @ approx. 90 miles
WPTA-DT 24, Fort Wayne, IN @ approx. 75 miles

I usually have issues receiving Chicago stations from my home in Indy, so it looks like I need a mobile setup just north of the city to receive those stations.

Steve

When I was flipping around the channels tonight, I noticed that WYIN has two more subchannels. They still had 56-1 and 56-2, but now the labels on them were "WYIN-D1" and "WYIN-D2" (they used to be where all the letters were together and no space/hyphen), but now 56-3 and 56-4 were added too. When I tuned in, all 4 were showing the same thing, but I'm guessing they'll probably have different programming on each of them, maybe like WTTW. 56-3 and 56-4 were a bit more pixelated than what I'm used to for most channels, but it wasn't unbearable. I'll be curious if/what they do with the added channels.

So, anyone else getting the additional 2 subchannels on WYIN as well?

Anything happening with regard to WLS moving back to UHF?

Still waiting on the WWAZ move to be ruled on by the FCC.

- Trip

When I was flipping around the channels tonight, I noticed that WYIN has two more subchannels. They still had 56-1 and 56-2, but now the labels on them were "WYIN-D1" and "WYIN-D2" (they used to be where all the letters were together and no space/hyphen), but now 56-3 and 56-4 were added too. When I tuned in, all 4 were showing the same thing, but I'm guessing they'll probably have different programming on each of them, maybe like WTTW. 56-3 and 56-4 were a bit more pixelated than what I'm used to for most channels, but it wasn't unbearable. I'll be curious if/what they do with the added channels.

So, anyone else getting the additional 2 subchannels on WYIN as well?

Hmmm..I'm in the South Suburbs so I can get WYIN easily, I'll look tonight to see if it will let me see the additional 2 sub channels for them. Sometimes, when a new sub channel gets added on I need to rescan my TV before I can see the new stuff so I might have to do that before it'll let me see the 2 new ones.

So, anyone else getting the additional 2 subchannels on WYIN as well?Yep. Just checked, and my Zinwell programmed them in automatically (coming in great tonight, too).

(edit: Whoa!! Got 56-4 on right now - what a pixellated mess! I don't know what you're talking about - that it's "bearable". What I'm seeing isn't even watchable at all. It's just absolutely horrible. I'll just never understand it, I guess - who could actually watch something like this?)

When I was flipping around the channels tonight, I noticed that WYIN has two more subchannels. They still had 56-1 and 56-2, but now the labels on them were "WYIN-D1" and "WYIN-D2" (they used to be where all the letters were together and no space/hyphen), but now 56-3 and 56-4 were added too. When I tuned in, all 4 were showing the same thing, but I'm guessing they'll probably have different programming on each of them, maybe like WTTW. 56-3 and 56-4 were a bit more pixelated than what I'm used to for most channels, but it wasn't unbearable. I'll be curious if/what they do with the added channels.

So, anyone else getting the additional 2 subchannels on WYIN as well?

I saw those yesterday also. PBS offer quite a bit of sub channel services on satellite, I hope to see WYIN make use of these. They could add RTV too :)

RTV is a commercial service. WYIN is a non-commercial license. To air commercial programming would be a violation of their license.

I keep trying to figure out what WYIN could put on subchannels, and other than PBS World, I can't think of anything much that's not already aired in the Chicago area. Research Channel maybe, Documentary Channel maybe, Pentagon Channel maybe, all of which currently have fewer than 5 affiliates...

- Trip

RTV is a commercial service. WYIN is a non-commercial license. To air commercial programming would be a violation of their license.

I keep trying to figure out what WYIN could put on subchannels, and other than PBS World, I can't think of anything much that's not already aired in the Chicago area. Research Channel maybe, Documentary Channel maybe, Pentagon Channel maybe, all of which currently have fewer than 5 affiliates...

- Trip

Didn't know that about RTV. PBS world is needed since it's not in the Chicago area. They could do time shifting of PBS feeds too since there are different timezone feeds on the bird's. Running copies of 56.1 won't go to far.

Hmmm..I'm in the South Suburbs so I can get WYIN easily, I'll look tonight to see if it will let me see the additional 2 sub channels for them. Sometimes, when a new sub channel gets added on I need to rescan my TV before I can see the new stuff so I might have to do that before it'll let me see the 2 new ones.Did you find out if you got the extra 2 channels? Just curious.

Yep. Just checked, and my Zinwell programmed them in automatically (coming in great tonight, too).

(edit: Whoa!! Got 56-4 on right now - what a pixellated mess! I don't know what you're talking about - that it's "bearable". What I'm seeing isn't even watchable at all. It's just absolutely horrible. I'll just never understand it, I guess - who could actually watch something like this?)After looking this morning, 56-3 and 56-4 are pretty pixelated, with 56-4 being the worse, as you mentioned. I was a bit dozy when I looked last night, so that could have distorted my view. But I see what you mean about it being pretty pixelated.

RTV is a commercial service. WYIN is a non-commercial license. To air commercial programming would be a violation of their license.

I keep trying to figure out what WYIN could put on subchannels, and other than PBS World, I can't think of anything much that's not already aired in the Chicago area. Research Channel maybe, Documentary Channel maybe, Pentagon Channel maybe, all of which currently have fewer than 5 affiliates...

- TripMaybe WYIN will do like WTTW and have a "WYIN Prime" type of channel or I spose if they really wanted something, they could always toss a V-me channel on one of them (wouldn't watch that, but still, it'd fill a channel); just a few thoughts. I'm not sure I've see PBS World; is that a little different from WTTW's programming/channels?

Didn't know that about RTV. PBS world is needed since it's not in the Chicago area. They could do time shifting of PBS feeds too since there are different timezone feeds on the bird's. Running copies of 56.1 won't go to far.Yeah, seeing 56-1 all the time won't be that thrilling LOL.

They can't run V-Me if WTTW already has it.

PBS World can either be really interesting or really dull. Earlier in the year, they ran "American Experience" episodes about the Presidents, in order, day by day. Each one ran about four times per day, then the next day, the next one in order would air. I watched it for as long as my signal held out (low-VHF) all week. It also has a rerun of the News Hour at 10ET/9CT which I catch on a pretty regular basis, and other public affairs programming.

Running the PBS West national feed would be an option, at least in the short term. A few stations are doing that though I'm not sure they really should. If I recall correctly, the PBS national feeds will be going away some time next year. A "WYIN Prime" would likely get very old, very fast.

I hear good things about Documentary Channel (which has KBDI and WNPT as its only affiliates) so maybe that's something they have in mind.

I'm tempted to call up and ask but I'm not in the coverage area and so I don't really feel right doing it.

- Trip

I'm surprised nobody posted the good news.

WWAZ's channel change was approved today, and at the same time, the FCC issued a Notice of Proposed Rule Making for WLS and channel 44. In fact, the FCC cited WLS's channel change request as one of the reasons they approved WWAZ.

So now there's a comment period, and if there are no opposing comments (I doubt there will be), it could be approved within two months (or less, if the FCC's feeling really speedy).

- Trip

Trust me, guys - I'm really not being "picky" in this instance. Once you see 56-3 and 56-4, you're not gonna care what they're showing on there.

They almost make ION Life look good. Heck, they even make the WWTO channels look good.

As they are now, they really are unwatchable - and I was looking at them on a 480i 32" analog CRT.

I don't really care about the "excessive subchannel" issue in this case, so I really don't have any stake in saying this whatsoever. I don't watch and can hardly ever get that channel in anyway. And they don't show any HD. But your enthusiasm will surely dampen once you see them.

If you can actually stand to watch them as they are now, then I'd even go so far as to say that there'd have to be something wrong with you - like maybe you're legally blind.

I'm surprised nobody posted the good news.

WWAZ's channel change was approved today, and at the same time, the FCC issued a Notice of Proposed Rule Making for WLS and channel 44. In fact, the FCC cited WLS's channel change request as one of the reasons they approved WWAZ.

So now there's a comment period, and if there are no opposing comments (I doubt there will be), it could be approved within two months (or less, if the FCC's feeling really speedy).

- Trip

The NPRM was posted while I went on vacation, and the approval came on my busiest day of the summer. That's how things get done at the FCC. :D

Cool! Now, hopefully, no negative comments.

56 is running 720p on 56 1 & 2 and 480i on 56 3 & 4. That's what my AQUOS shows. There HD looks good.

Wait, both 56-1 and 56-2 are in 720p? With two 480i? OUCH. I can only hope that's a mistake.

- Trip

they don't show any HD. But your enthusiasm will surely dampen once you see them.




I was watching there PBS Feed in HD 720p today it looked really nice. This was on my new home brew UHF yagi I built just for 56. It was also pulling in 16,22 & 28 South Bend today with it. My regular South Bend DX antenna was getting them plus 35 and I was seeing blips on 20 and 27 not sure where those were coming from.

Wait, both 56-1 and 56-2 are in 720p? With two 480i? OUCH. I can only hope that's a mistake.

- Trip
Yep both show as 720p I was watching PBS kids cartoon a couple hours back on 56.2 and it looked real good. I'm not sure how they have the bandwidth allocated and if there running stat mux.

I was watching there PBS Feed in HD 720p today it looked really nice. This was on my new home brew UHF yagi I built just for 56. It was also pulling in 16,22 & 28 South Bend today with it. My regular South Bend DX antenna was getting them plus 35 and I was seeing blips on 20 and 27 not sure where those were coming from.

Nice! 20 and 27 are both from Madison. As for 56-1 and 56-2 in HD, it looks like 56-2 is a PSIP remap of 56-1. Same thing with 56-4; it could be a remap of 56-3.

When I was flipping around the channels tonight, I noticed that WYIN has two more subchannels. They still had 56-1 and 56-2, but now the labels on them were "WYIN-D1" and "WYIN-D2" (they used to be where all the letters were together and no space/hyphen), but now 56-3 and 56-4 were added too. When I tuned in, all 4 were showing the same thing, but I'm guessing they'll probably have different programming on each of them, maybe like WTTW. 56-3 and 56-4 were a bit more pixelated than what I'm used to for most channels, but it wasn't unbearable. I'll be curious if/what they do with the added channels.

So, anyone else getting the additional 2 subchannels on WYIN as well?I was wondering about that when I saw an online program guide the other day ... at that time WYIN SD, Create and WYIN-HD were the three channels. (Titan TV still shows that.)

Nice! 20 and 27 are both from Madison. As for 56-1 and 56-2 in HD, it looks like 56-2 is a PSIP remap of 56-1. Same thing with 56-4; it could be a remap of 56-3.

20 and 27 was off the backside. Tropo was really rocking last night from South Bend and Milwaukee. I rescanned my AQUOS for South Bend and was stepping through the analogs and got 24, 57 and a couple other LPTV channels. No idea on locations.

The weird thing is 28 (WSJV) in SB was messing with 28 (TMJ-4) Milwaukee.
Same with the 35's (DTV-RF's) I'm about equal distance from both.

I was comparing HD on Ch 5 (WMAQ) with 16 (WNDU), 16 had a slight edge on NBC programming. WSBT HD looks really nice but WBBM was a bit better with CBS stuff.

Im not sure what 56 is doing, I think there just testing HD stuff now. Glad to see them go HD though.

The best thing about all the DX receiving is it was on my modified and home brew antenna's. You can always make improvements beyond what you can get off the shelf. :D

I am having regular problems with Channels 26 and all subs. Regular dropouts, especially at night. I think it is multipath because I have a large rooftop aerial that brings in all the other Chicago stations nice and strong. I am 35 miles NW. The aerial is aimed at downtown Chicago, but there is a large tree about 100 yards away in the LOS. Meanwhile, I have a Philips MANT510 in an upstairs room that brings in all stations well enough. Not as strong a signal as the roof antenna, but no problem with 26 either.

Once in a while channel 32 drops out like 26, but not so often. Cutting down the tree is not an option. Anything I can do to find out if multipath is the problem?

I am having regular problems with Channels 26 and all subs. Regular dropouts, especially at night. I think it is multipath because I have a large rooftop aerial that brings in all the other Chicago stations nice and strong. I am 35 miles NW. The aerial is aimed at downtown Chicago, but there is a large tree about 100 yards away in the LOS. Meanwhile, I have a Philips MANT510 in an upstairs room that brings in all stations well enough. Not as strong a signal as the roof antenna, but no problem with 26 either.

Once in a while channel 32 drops out like 26, but not so often. Cutting down the tree is not an option. Anything I can do to find out if multipath is the problem?

Your pretty detailed analysis pretty much confirms it. What you could do is wait until 26 powers up, whenever that will be; or, get a larger and thus more directional antenna to reduce the multipath.

I have been told changes were made to rf 4 (13.1 and 13.2) last night. What is everyone seeing and hearing from these channels?

I'm going to be moving to the Loop soon and wondered if someone could comment on what luck I'll have getting the HD locals with a small, indoor antenna? I'll be on the corner of Wabash and State, on the 40th floor facing west. I think almost everything is broadcast from the Sears (Willis) Tower right? I look right at the building.

Anything I can do to find out if multipath is the problem?

Look at a low power analog channel and see if there's ghosting. If there is you have multipath.

I'm going to be moving to the Loop soon and wondered if someone could comment on what luck I'll have getting the HD locals with a small, indoor antenna? I'll be on the corner of Wabash and State, on the 40th floor facing west. I think almost everything is broadcast from the Sears (Willis) Tower right? I look right at the building.I was at State and Chicago last year for 9 months. I was at the north west corner of my building on the 8th floor. Could see the hancock from my window that faces north. I got all the hancock stations fine but i had a hard time with the sears tower ones. I had the zenith silver sensor type antenna with vhf. I had a hard time with 5, 7, 9, 11, and 26 usually. I ended up having to move the antenna to a special spot for each station. I did not have a tv but my computer's tuner. (avermedia 1x pcie card with windows vista x64). Not sure what kind of reception that gets with off air). Usually had to use the amp with sears tower stations.

I had a pretty good setup. Analog was rcn (while they still had analog) and digital was ota. They got rid of analog with rcn though. When i was finish watching hd tv, i put the antenna so i can get fox 32 in. I had my dvr set to record the simpsons and a few other cartoons. (Vista Media center rocked with the tv pack!). Ended up using my rcn dvr most of the time. No hd though.

I have been told changes were made to rf 4 (13.1 and 13.2) last night. What is everyone seeing and hearing from these channels?

Hey Gilbert:

All I see is a black screen with 90% RF signal strength. So the RF is up from 60% but the programing is blank.

Tom

I'm going to be moving to the Loop soon and wondered if someone could comment on what luck I'll have getting the HD locals with a small, indoor antenna? I'll be on the corner of Wabash and State, on the 40th floor facing west. I think almost everything is broadcast from the Sears (Willis) Tower right? I look right at the building.

WGBO and WYCC are atop the John Hancock Center, the rest are on the Sears (Willis) Tower.

Hey Gilbert:

All I see is a black screen with 90% RF signal strength. So the RF is up from 60% but the programing is blank.

Tom

Thanks, Tom. Keep checking every now and then. I just emailed them back to let them know.

I have been told changes were made to rf 4 (13.1 and 13.2) last night. What is everyone seeing and hearing from these channels?What kind of changes, and what should we be seeing?

I have been told changes were made to rf 4 (13.1 and 13.2) last night. What is everyone seeing and hearing from these channels?

I can't see them from my desk anymore. I used to be able to see them from my Sears Demod antenna but not anymore.

I have been told changes were made to rf 4 (13.1 and 13.2) last night. What is everyone seeing and hearing from these channels?

I used to get 13.1/13.2 with 4-5 out of 10 signal strength; now I get nothing at all (not that I'll miss them...)

I used to get 13.1/13.2 with 4-5 out of 10 signal strength; now I get nothing at all (not that I'll miss them...)

Thanks. OK, folks...this "under wraps" request is going public...by request.

Several of you know that channel 4, based on the FCC parameters, can't be picked up that KM Communication's headquarters...until the FCC approves their omnidirectional antenna pattern. So, they are looking for a volunteer or two to let them know if they are on the air or not, or if there are problems.
PM me if interested, and I'll get you in contact with their vice president, Kevin Bae, who'd love to talk with you.

I've been waiting to hear something about WCIU's power increase, but there seems to be no news on it. Last I heard was sometime in August, which is now almost half gone.

I've been waiting to hear something about WCIU's power increase, but there seems to be no news on it. Last I heard was sometime in August, which is now almost half gone.

Scroll back to post 6406 of the thread in which you have posted ...
http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=16957198#post16957198
"Not August."

It isn't a trivial upgrade.

Are there any Indoor Antennas that will get good reception from the Streamwood area? Rabbit Ears + Amplifier?

[QUOTE=stwhoges;16987312]Did you find out if you got the extra 2 channels? Just curious.

Just wanted to let ya know that I sure am able to get the extra 2 channels. Came in without needing to re-scan the tv too. I see what everyone means by pixelated mess now :( Usually if I can get a channel in good enough to watch it I'll watch it and PQ rarely bothers me. I can live with both SD and HD PQ but I can definitely see the pixelated mess on 56-4. It's pretty much Youtube quality at it's worst. But I did want to let ya know I didn't forget :) I can get all 4 of Channel 56's channels no problem down here in Tinley Park.

Last night was an interesting night TV wise to say the very least. I was watching TV on the big HDTV in the basement and was bored so I scanned it just for the heck of it to kill time. Normally that process takes under 5 minutes. Last night though it took more like 10. You should understand the antenna for the house is up in the attic so what I can manage is usually just the Chicago channels but when the scan finished I flipped through and I was able to watch WNDU out of South Bend, at least for a few minutes :) The signal strength wasn't great..half the screen was a garbled mess and the other half was totally clear. The bottom half of the picture was great, as clear as one of the Chicago channels. Very impressive especially with the antenna in the attic.

I also was getting the PSIP (hope that's right) info for Channel 22 WSBT also out of South Bend. Didn't wanna show a picture for any of it's 3 channels at all it was just too weak of a signal :( But 22-1, 22-2 and 22-3 were showing up where they were supposed to though and it said WSBT in the info.

Must have been greeeeat tropo last night if I was able to pull off that stunt with the antenna in the attic.

Are there any Indoor Antennas that will get good reception from the Streamwood area? Rabbit Ears + Amplifier?This might work (no guarantees, of course. It has VHF rabbit ears - you just can't see them in the picture):

http://www.amazon.com/Terk-Amplified-High-Definition-Antenna-Reception/dp/B0007MXZB2/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&s=electronics&qid=1250230086&sr=1-1

[QUOTE=stwhoges;16987312]Did you find out if you got the extra 2 channels? Just curious.

Just wanted to let ya know that I sure am able to get the extra 2 channels. Came in without needing to re-scan the tv too. I see what everyone means by pixelated mess now :( Usually if I can get a channel in good enough to watch it I'll watch it and PQ rarely bothers me. I can live with both SD and HD PQ but I can definitely see the pixelated mess on 56-4. It's pretty much Youtube quality at it's worst. But I did want to let ya know I didn't forget :) I can get all 4 of Channel 56's channels no problem down here in Tinley Park.

Last night was an interesting night TV wise to say the very least. I was watching TV on the big HDTV in the basement and was bored so I scanned it just for the heck of it to kill time. Normally that process takes under 5 minutes. Last night though it took more like 10. You should understand the antenna for the house is up in the attic so what I can manage is usually just the Chicago channels but when the scan finished I flipped through and I was able to watch WNDU out of South Bend, at least for a few minutes :) The signal strength wasn't great..half the screen was a garbled mess and the other half was totally clear. The bottom half of the picture was great, as clear as one of the Chicago channels. Very impressive especially with the antenna in the attic.

I also was getting the PSIP (hope that's right) info for Channel 22 WSBT also out of South Bend. Didn't wanna show a picture for any of it's 3 channels at all it was just too weak of a signal :( But 22-1, 22-2 and 22-3 were showing up where they were supposed to though and it said WSBT in the info.

Must have been greeeeat tropo last night if I was able to pull off that stunt with the antenna in the attic.

Tropo has picked up the last couple days. Getting South bend in the attic is possible. I remember back in the 70's getting analog South Bend with attic antenna's before I put antenna's outside. Kinda neat seeing it on digital locked in though. 22 should have came in for you though since it kicks 16's butt with signal strength this way.

I have been told changes were made to rf 4 (13.1 and 13.2) last night. What is everyone seeing and hearing from these channels?

Over here in Glen Ellyn with a rooftop antenna, no dice. My Tivo channel scans always present 13.1 & 13.2 as viable stations, but the handful of times I've tried to tune in, I get nothing. Just a blank screen with not even a hint of a picture coming through. I did check these two channels again after seeing your post yesterday, but still nothing.


Don't really want to engage this any further though.. that's assuming for a moment that my location/circumstance would even be of interest to the powers that be.

Over here in Glen Ellyn with a rooftop antenna, no dice. My Tivo channel scans always present 13.1 & 13.2 as viable stations, but the handful of times I've tried to tune in, I get nothing. Just a blank screen with not even a hint of a picture coming through. I did check these two channels again after seeing your post yesterday, but still nothing.


Don't really want to engage this any further though.. that's assuming for a moment that my location/circumstance would even be of interest to the powers that be.

13.1 & 2 have a good signal by me. Although there is nothing but a black screen on both. Don't even have it saved in memory since I don't watch it, but it's there.

[QUOTE=bh7812;16997767]

Tropo has picked up the last couple days. Getting South bend in the attic is possible. I remember back in the 70's getting analog South Bend with attic antenna's before I put antenna's outside. Kinda neat seeing it on digital locked in though. 22 should have came in for you though since it kicks 16's butt with signal strength this way.

I was really surprised about WSBT 22 not being able to come at all on any of it's 3 channels too Tvropro! I knew 22's signal is much stronger than 16's so I was pretty shocked I couldn't manage it at all :( I'll try again on the next really good tropo night and hopefully some of 22's signal can get through.

When everything was still analog I was able to get most of South Bend's channels, probably 90 percent of Milwaukee's and occasionally when I got very lucky even 1 or 2 from Rockford when conditions were good. Once we get a good rooftop antenna at least South Bend should lock in fairly easily on good nights even from here I'd think.

Other people that watch 13-2 in or closer to the city are complaining that they can't get it anymore, either (or at least that it's blacked out - not sure which). But I'm pretty sure Kevin knows all about those people on the Deiner board, because he (or at least his reps) posts over there from time to time.

Don't really want to engage this any further though.. that's assuming for a moment that my location/circumstance would even be of interest to the powers that be.I don't know if that's an area they're going for, but a lot of non-Korean people watch 13-2 (WOCH).

I doubt if the same could be said for 13-1 and non-Hispanics, though - as they never subtitle their programming in English. That wouldn't be giving them what they want. :rolleyes:

I don't know if that's an area they're going for, but a lot of non-Korean people watch 13-2 (WOCH).

I doubt if the same could be said for 13-1 and non-Hispanics, though - as they never subtitle their programming in English. That wouldn't be giving them what they want. :rolleyes:

OK, 13.1 and 13.2 have been fixed, but what is on there?

Question for the engineers in here.

I've noticed that both the Cubs and the Sox games on WGN and WCIU tend to have a "pulsing" problem in the picture. This is especially noticeable in the graphic overlays that are used (the blue mesh background). I also notice it a lot in live shots of the crowd and just noticed it in the ivy at Wrigley while a fielder was making a play (and no it wasn't some illusion caused by a dumped beer) :) I've noticed this on different TVs (mine and friends/family) and providers (Comcast, DTV, OTA) so I can only guess that there's something going on with the feed. Any engineer types know why this may be happening? Best way I can describe it would be someone turning the brightness up and down really fast.

I'm neither Hispanic nor Korean. So do I matter? and what's this all about again? :confused: :D

13.1 & 2 have a good signal by me. Although there is nothing but a black screen on both....

that's the one thing I haven't done.. checked what the signal strength is.

I'm neither Hispanic nor Korean. So do I matter?Well, if you don't watch either of them, then I'd imagine not. :)

Whoa!! I just went past the Flubs game, and they're winning 17-2. Shoot - that's no good. :p

(Not getting anything on RF 4, though. They are 4 - right?)

Yea, I'm into the Sox lately, a more likeable and (somewhat) less irritating team. The Cubs are too depressing, plus, I don't want to miss Scotty "Pods" going for the pick-off cycle record. :rolleyes: What a stupid ballplayer he is.

but I digress..

[QUOTE=tvropro;16998156]

I was really surprised about WSBT 22 not being able to come at all on any of it's 3 channels too Tvropro! I knew 22's signal is much stronger than 16's so I was pretty shocked I couldn't manage it at all :( I'll try again on the next really good tropo night and hopefully some of 22's signal can get through.

When everything was still analog I was able to get most of South Bend's channels, probably 90 percent of Milwaukee's and occasionally when I got very lucky even 1 or 2 from Rockford when conditions were good. Once we get a good rooftop antenna at least South Bend should lock in fairly easily on good nights even from here I'd think.

Back in the analog days 16 was the best and 22 took a back seat. Now 22 is the first to come in and last to go. Most of the time when there is no tropo
I get blips on the signal meter. WITI 6 out of Milwaukee does the same here, back in the day WTMJ analog 4 was the best, 6 was a pain because of 5.

RF4 aka 13.1/13.2 seems to be back up and running again.

There's still no "default" audio; there's no sound when I tune to the channel but I can get sound if I manually switch the audio to Spanish or Korean.

There's also still a white strip down the left edge of the video on 13.2; although that's also visible on analog 41.

RF4 aka 13.1/13.2 seems to be back up and running again.

There's still no "default" audio; there's no sound when I tune to the channel but I can get sound if I manually switch the audio to Spanish or Korean.

There's also still a white strip down the left edge of the video on 13.2; although that's also visible on analog 41.

Comcast has started carrying WOCH as channel 599, which used to be the WOCK-CA feed. It had the white line a few days ago, at least on one program, but is gone now. It's on clearQAM 29-8 here.

RF4 aka 13.1/13.2 seems to be back up and running again.

There's still no "default" audio; there's no sound when I tune to the channel but I can get sound if I manually switch the audio to Spanish or Korean.

There's also still a white strip down the left edge of the video on 13.2; although that's also visible on analog 41.

That should be fixed. 13.1 is now KBC; 13.2 is now "Revenue Frontiers".

Whoa!! I just went past the Flubs game, and they're winning 17-2. Shoot - that's no good. :p

(Not getting anything on RF 4, though. They are 4 - right?)

Doesn't matter, they'll be lucky to win the division and choke again in the playoffs, yet many of us still root for them. But, it's better than going to a Disabled Hitter league game where it takes 4 hours. The DH sucks. Can't be a Sox fan and put up with that sleeper league. Very little strategy on when to pull pitcher, hit and run, base steeling, bunting, etc. A manager can be in a coma and be an AVERAGE Disabled Hitter League manager. (terry bevington)

...and if I have to watch one more Yankmees and Red Sux game on the Eastern Seaboard Programming Network I will puke. Start time 6pm ct, end time around 11 or 12. Pathetic. The DH makes the game WAY to long and boring.

Are you sure 22 is stronger?
http://www.fcc.gov/fcc-bin/tvq?call=WNDU&city=&state=

http://www.fcc.gov/fcc-bin/tvq?call=WSBT&city=&state=

doesn't look like it.

Are you sure 22 is stronger?
http://www.fcc.gov/fcc-bin/tvq?call=WNDU&city=&state=

http://www.fcc.gov/fcc-bin/tvq?call=WSBT&city=&state=

doesn't look like it.

Look at the maps for a good comparison. The circles are about the same, with 22 being slightly bigger. (Very slightly.)

In my more distant scans I've been able to get 22 easier than 16 (RF 42). Perhaps 22 is encoding the signal better?

This might work (no guarantees, of course. It has VHF rabbit ears - you just can't see them in the picture):

http://www.amazon.com/Terk-Amplified-High-Definition-Antenna-Reception/dp/B0007MXZB2/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&s=electronics&qid=1250230086&sr=1-1

The HDTVa is usually well reviewed. The HDTVi is the same, but unamplified. I've seen HDTVa's in both Bestbuy and Fry's, but at twice the price (or more)

That should be fixed. 13.1 is now KBC; 13.2 is now "Revenue Frontiers".

Wow, go figure -- that pesky white line is gone now.

Now if they could just fix the audio problems:

13.1 - Defaults to "English" but has no sound. Korean (I guess) audio is present if I manually switch to the other audio channel which is captioned as "Undefined".

13.2 - Defaults to "English" but has no sound. English audio is present if I manually switch to the other audio channel which is captioned "Korean".

Do that -- and maybe add RTV on 13.3 -- and they'd be just like a real TV channel!

Are you sure 22 is stronger?
http://www.fcc.gov/fcc-bin/tvq?call=WNDU&city=&state=

http://www.fcc.gov/fcc-bin/tvq?call=WSBT&city=&state=

doesn't look like it.

Dunno if this means anything or not -- but during the tropo Wed night I was getting 22 at around 95% signal and 16 at around 75-80%.

Look at the maps for a good comparison. The circles are about the same, with 22 being slightly bigger. (Very slightly.)

In my more distant scans I've been able to get 22 easier than 16 (RF 42). Perhaps 22 is encoding the signal better?

Could be Chicago's location to South Bend by me but 22 comes in better and more often. 22 may propagate better than 42 also WSBT's transmitter is higher (Height makes might).

Whatever it is SBT smokes by me :D

Could be Chicago's location to South Bend by me but 22 comes in better and more often. 22 may propagate better than 42 also WSBT's transmitter is higher (Height makes might).

Whatever it is SBT smokes by me :D
22's transmitter is about seven meters higher ... the antenna is 53 meters higher (above mean sea level). It is a good illustration of power vs height when serving distant viewers. In this case WNDU may be hurting themselves with local viewers as well ... I have problems with their signal coming in too strong and multi-path. WSBT with less that half the wattage is delivering a more usable signal.

WNDU does have a plan ... they have a CP to raise their center of radiation 33 meters AND raise their power to 800 kW. They will have height and power (still 21 meters lower than WSBT but three times the power).

So what is "Revenue Frontiers"?  Is that the name of the channel or just the name of one program on it?  Is it all infomercials or something like that, as one might guess from such a name?

I'm in the notch to the north in RF4's coverage map and can't receive it.  WOCK used to be on Comcast 599 when WOCK existed; WOCH is on Comcast 599 and analog 41 now, so until Revenue Frontiers came about I wasn't missing anything.  (Then again, lack of reception of Revenue Frontiers might not qualify as missing anything either.)

If WOCH is on 13.1, does that portend that KBS won't be using RF49 for ATSC after all?

Do that -- and maybe add RTV on 13.3 -- and they'd be just like a real TV channel!Revenue Frontiers may be missable, but if Chicago finally got RTV and it were put onto a channel I couldn't receive, then I'd be disappointed.

The HDTVa is usually well reviewed. The HDTVi is the same, but unamplified. I've seen HDTVa's in both Bestbuy and Fry's, but at twice the price (or more)Early HDTVi's had some kind of a design fault with the VHF section. I don't know for sure if they ever fixed it in that model. When the "a" version came out a bit later, it supposedly had been fixed for sure, and the reviews were good right from the start.

I don't know if you can remove the power injector from the HDTVa and add your own stronger amp, but if you can, I'd probably recommend that model over the "i" one just to be safe. I think the amp in it is only 10 dbs, anyway, and you might want more.

22's transmitter is about seven meters higher ... the antenna is 53 meters higher (above mean sea level). It is a good illustration of power vs height when serving distant viewers. In this case WNDU may be hurting themselves with local viewers as well ... I have problems with their signal coming in too strong and multi-path. WSBT with less that half the wattage is delivering a more usable signal.

WNDU does have a plan ... they have a CP to raise their center of radiation 33 meters AND raise their power to 800 kW. They will have height and power (still 21 meters lower than WSBT but three times the power).

When WNDU raises there antenna and adds the watts we will have to see what happens. You can have all the wattage in the world but for distant coverage Height will always win out due to the curvature of the earth.

If you download google earth and the proper files for South Bend and look at the plots, you can see 22 gets into more area's than 16 even up this way.

BTW 53 Meters (m) = 173.884514436 Feet (ft) so SBT is 173 or so feet higher now.

WGBODT is mapping to 60-2 and 66-1 on my westinghouse lcd

Anyone know what is going on?

WGBO is airing on both WGBO-DT (66-1) and on WXFT-DT (60-2).

- Trip

When WNDU raises there antenna and adds the watts we will have to see what happens. You can have all the wattage in the world but for distant coverage Height will always win out due to the curvature of the earth.

If you download google earth and the proper files for South Bend and look at the plots, you can see 22 gets into more area's than 16 even up this way.

BTW 53 Meters (m) = 173.884514436 Feet (ft) so SBT is 173 or so feet higher now.

Also remember that WNDU will get interference on channel 42 from 900 kw WQRF-DT in Rockford. It has a low stick (600'-ish, IIRC), but in tropo, it gets out.

I'm in the notch to the north in RF4's coverage map and can't receive it.* WOCK used to be on Comcast 599 when WOCK existed; WOCH is on Comcast 599 and analog 41 now, so until Revenue Frontiers came about I wasn't missing anything.* (Then again, lack of reception of Revenue Frontiers might not qualify as missing anything either.)

If WOCH is on 13.1, does that portend that KBS won't be using RF49 for ATSC after all?



Can't get it here in Northbrook either.... and I get just about everything from Chicago, Milwaukee, and sometimes South Bend

Also remember that WNDU will get interference on channel 42 from 900 kw WQRF-DT in Rockford. It has a low stick (600'-ish, IIRC), but in tropo, it gets out.

I think I only got Rockford once for a few hours...ever! I think I got channel 17 whatever that was. They have low antennas there in RFD plus the Lake Zurich/Palatine ridge blocks any hope of a signal to the east. WNDU is fairly reliable here at night on the North Shore.

wgbo is airing on both wgbo-dt (66-1) and on wxft-dt (60-2).

- trip

why?

I think I only got Rockford once for a few hours...ever! I think I got channel 17 whatever that was. They have low antennas there in RFD plus the Lake Zurich/Palatine ridge blocks any hope of a signal to the east. WNDU is fairly reliable here at night on the North Shore.

WTVO-DT 16 (17.1/17.2) is what you got (ABC). They do have low antennas, and yep on the ridge. At the Chain O'Lakes, I could easily get WTVO, could get frequent locks with breakup on WQRF-DT 42 (39.1), and
only low, present signals on WIFR and WREX.

why?

The WGBO-DT transmitter is unstable. It's there as a backup.

The WGBO-DT transmitter is unstable. It's there as a backup.

I've seen it. They keep it locked in a padded room and everything. :D

I've seen it. They keep it locked in a padded room and everything. :D
:eek: :D

So what is "Revenue Frontiers"?

So far, it's non-stop infomercials. The only thing remarkable about it is that the audio is in English.

Although as I pointed out earlier, you have manually switch to the "Korean" audio setting to hear 13.2 in English.

WHat is the deal with WLS TV 7.1??
Ever since the digital trans. It has been weka as hell 65-70% Signal on my Dish network 622.

I have a winegard hd8200p and a winegard hd8275 preamp. Channel 2.1 is now finally watchable but 7.1 is not here in Plano. My parents are in Sugar grove and have an older winegard 35" up on a tower and same thing all other channels blow in 95-100% signal???

WHat is the deal with WLS TV 7.1??
Ever since the digital trans. It has been weka as hell 65-70% Signal on my Dish network 622.

I have a winegard hd8200p and a winegard hd8275 preamp. Channel 2.1 is now finally watchable but 7.1 is not here in Plano. My parents are in Sugar grove and have an older winegard 35" up on a tower and same thing all other channels blow in 95-100% signal???

Hello Dodge,

The deal is after the digital transition, they moved from channel 52 to channel 7 with their digital broadcast. They had 156 kilowatts of power before, now they only have 4.4 kilowatts. But hang in there: the FCC has tentatively approved them to go to channel 44, and at nearly 500 kilowatts.
Once it gets approved, they'll install stuff quickly, I reckon.

WYIN is broadcasting four separate channels ... no reuse! There are two separate HD channels (D1 and D2) and two separate SD channels (D3 and D4). The HD channels are running just under 8 mbps each and the SD channels are running around 1 mbps. All four channels are 16x9. When I caught them last night all four were showing the same content, but they are different streams.

WOCK has not changed their encoding. They simply moved the content around. The KBS feed is now on 13.1 "WOCK-LD" with the shopping on 13.2 "WOCH-CA". The odd audio: 13.1 has main channel listed as "Esp" and the 2nd channel listed as "Eng". 13.2 has main channel listed as "Kor" and the 2nd channel listed as "Eng". They didn't move the tags when they moved the channels.

BTW: I'd say that WOCK could only be viewed within the fall radius of the tower (which happens to be the Hancock building) but I stopped on the street at the base of the building and could not receive the signal. I had to find a sweet spot a few blocks away to get any usable readings at all.