Hello all,
I'll be moving to chicago next week and with a new HDTV in hand would like to receive OTA HD stations. I will be living in a highrise in downtown. Any suggestions for antennaes would be appreciated. thank you
Here's the information from antennaweb:

* green - vhf WBBM-DT 2.1 CBS CHICAGO IL 356° 0.9 3
red - vhf WBBM 2 CBS CHICAGO IL 356° 0.9 2
red - vhf WGN 9 CW CHICAGO IL 356° 0.9 9
blue - vhf WMAQ 5 NBC CHICAGO IL 239° 0.9 5
blue - uhf WFLD 32 FOX CHICAGO IL 356° 0.9 32
blue - uhf WGBO 66 UNI JOLIET IL 356° 0.9 66
blue - uhf WCPX 38 ION CHICAGO IL 356° 0.9 38
blue - uhf WYCC 20 PBS CHICAGO IL 356° 0.9 20
* violet - uhf WYCC-DT 20.1 PBS CHICAGO IL 356° 0.9 21

thanks for your help

Hey Fonzie,

Here's the 411 on your 311:

A simple pair of rabbit ears and a "loop" antenna, which you can get at Radio Shack or Wal Mart for about $10, should do the trick nicely...so long as you aren't shadowed from the Sears Tower or John Hancock building.

Hello all,
I'll be moving to chicago next week and with a new HDTV in hand would like to receive OTA HD stations. I will be living in a highrise in downtown. Any suggestions for antennaes would be appreciated. thank you
Here's the information from antennaweb:

* green - vhf WBBM-DT 2.1 CBS CHICAGO IL 356° 0.9 3
red - vhf WBBM 2 CBS CHICAGO IL 356° 0.9 2
red - vhf WGN 9 CW CHICAGO IL 356° 0.9 9
blue - vhf WMAQ 5 NBC CHICAGO IL 239° 0.9 5
blue - uhf WFLD 32 FOX CHICAGO IL 356° 0.9 32
blue - uhf WGBO 66 UNI JOLIET IL 356° 0.9 66
blue - uhf WCPX 38 ION CHICAGO IL 356° 0.9 38
blue - uhf WYCC 20 PBS CHICAGO IL 356° 0.9 20
* violet - uhf WYCC-DT 20.1 PBS CHICAGO IL 356° 0.9 21

thanks for your helpThat's not really a very complete listing.

This is more like what's available, as far as the Chicago digital broadcasts go:

WBBM-DT (CBS) 2.1
WMAQ-DT (NBC) 5.1, 5.2
WLS-DT (ABC) 7.1, 7.2, 7.3
WGN-DT (CW) 9.1
The Tube (Music TV) 9.2
WTTW-HD (PBS) 11.1
WTTW-DT (PBS) 11.2, 11.3
WYCC-DT (PBS) 20.1
WCIU-DT (IND) 26.1
WMME-DT (IND) 26.2
WFLD-DT (Fox) 32.1
WCPX-DT (ION) 38.1, 38.2, 38.3, 38.4
WPWR (MNTV) 50.1,

and a handful or so ethnic, religious, and weather channels or subchannels.

If you're open towards NW IN, you might also pick up WYIN-DT (PBS) 56.1, 56.2.

Hey Ramm,

Got a question for you. When I turn my antenna east towards Chicago, something bad has been happening on my TV. I get channel 9-1, but whenever the Cubs are playing, we lose badly, and have fights break out in our bullpen. Whenever the Sox play, they lose badly, and Ozzie throws out enough F-bombs to stop any war in any country right now. What's wrong with my system? :D

I see the Cubs actually won today, and they were really hyped up about playing the "first place" :rolleyes: Brewers next series.

Geez. It doesn't take much for them and their fans to all of a sudden think they are World Series contenders after a couple of wins.

But I guess after seeing the Cards win it all last year, anything really can happen. (I thought last year's finish was arguably the most bogus end to a season that I can ever remember, but I'm sure Cardinal fans would beg to differ.)

As far as the Sox, I picked 'em for fourth, or in a VERY best-case scenario (like a lot of key injuries to one of the other "good" teams), absolutely no better than third before the season started, so they're right about where I expected them to be. Still, I didn't expect them to be THIS bad - I just figured they were in probably the best division in baseball.

By the way, Gilbert, I've been meaning to tell you I got the new Samsung tuner last week. CC is just a stone's throw away from me, and I happened to be in there walking around, and I saw they had three of them in stock. So I figured, "what the heck?!" - I can always return it if it's no improvement. But I have to say, I'm pleasantly surprised at how good it is. You'd probably benefit a lot from it yourself.

I get all of the Chi. stations totally stable and strong with the U-75r when I'm pointed at Mil. Plus, I've been getting all of the important Mil. channels very steadily, such as 58-1 (CBS), 58.2 (Brewer's games), and 36-1 (self-explanatory). Must have something to do with it's specialized multipath handling or something. I usually get all of their other stations once the sun goes down, but those are all redundant clones anyway.

The program guide is real "purdy", too (very appealing light blue color, and nice design - supposedly similar to TiVo's, so I've read), but the stations could sure stand to send out a little more show info. And all you have to do is "highlight" the shows you want to record, so all you'd have to do is set timers on the recorder.

So I'm definitely leaning heavily towards keeping it. Compared to my Sony, the HD is just a hair less sharp (I just have to turn the sharpness up a couple of notches), but the SD is probably a tad better - it's "cleaner". I don't notice as much grain or mosquito noise with it. It's definitely much better all-around than my Accurian is (except for the fact that you can't "add" channels with a rescan, or even put any in later singularly), so maybe I'll just sell that tuner. Or maybe not, since it's actually better than the Sony for distance. If I keep the Sammy on the main set, I'll need the RS on the other TV whenever I get the line run to it, because I really want to drop those crappy-looking Dish locals. God, I don't know how they can get away with it, they're so bad.

I see the Cubs actually won today, and they were really hyped up about playing the "first place" :rolleyes: Brewers next series.

Geez. It doesn't take much for them and their fans to all of a sudden think they are World Series contenders after a couple of wins.

Hey, we're 2-0 in the last few games. We're going all the way, baby! :D


But I guess after seeing the Cards win it all last year, anything really can happen. (I thought last year's finish was arguably the most bogus end to a season that I can ever remember, but I'm sure Cardinal fans would beg to differ.)


Well, they did have a great team, unfortunately.


As far as the Sox, I picked 'em for fourth, or in a VERY best-case scenario (like a lot of key injuries to one of the other "good" teams), absolutely no better than third before the season started, so they're right about where I expected them to be. Still, I didn't expect them to be THIS bad - I just figured they were in probably the best division in baseball.


Me neither. I can't explain both teams right now. The Cubs have the highest playing and supposedly some of the best in baseball...and the Sox, while a lot less cash, have a lot of world-class players. (Disclaimer: as a Cubs fan, you didn't hear this from me. :D )


By the way, Gilbert, I've been meaning to tell you I got the new Samsung tuner last week. CC is just a stone's throw away from me, and I happened to be in there walking around, and I saw they had three of them in stock. So I figured, "what the heck?!" - I can always return it if it's no improvement. But I have to say, I'm pleasantly surprised at how good it is. You'd probably benefit a lot from it yourself.

I get all of the Chi. stations totally stable and strong with the U-75r when I'm pointed at Mil. Plus, I've been getting all of the important Mil. channels very steadily, such as 58-1 (CBS), 58.2 (Brewer's games), and 36-1 (self-explanatory). Must have something to do with it's specialized multipath handling or something. I usually get all of their other stations once the sun goes down, but those are all redundant clones anyway.

Do you have the new 6th gen from Samsung? I am waiting for the 6th gen
to come down in cost next year. Those bad boys reportedly push the signal-noise ratio to the absolute theoretical limit, receiving 25% better than all the tuners do now(!), as does, allegedly, the new Samsung. And they both have excellent multipath handling. That's what I'll be looking for.


The program guide is real "purdy", too (very appealing light blue color, and nice design - supposedly similar to TiVo's, so I've read), but the stations could sure stand to send out a little more show info. And all you have to do is "highlight" the shows you want to record, so all you'd have to do is set timers on the recorder.

So I'm definitely leaning heavily towards keeping it. Compared to my Sony, the HD is just a hair less sharp (I just have to turn the sharpness up a couple of notches), but the SD is probably a tad better - it's "cleaner". I don't notice as much grain or mosquito noise with it. It's definitely much better all-around than my Accurian is (except for the fact that you can't "add" channels with a rescan, or even put any in later singularly), so maybe I'll just sell that tuner. Or maybe not, since it's actually better than the Sony for distance. If I keep the Sammy on the main set, I'll need the RS on the other TV whenever I get the line run to it, because I really want to drop those crappy-looking Dish locals. God, I don't know how they can get away with it, they're so bad.
Nice. They can get away with it because most TV's are "so bad". Anyway, I *think* you still have a 5th gen Samsung...because the 6th gen was just announced last month. When I go from a very good 3rd gen tuner to the 6th, I should do great.

P.S. Back on Friday night I had Madison, South Bend and Milwaukee booming in. A guy in Champaign that I did a design and did a tag-team install was getting, on his ChannelMaster 4228, Chicago, Quad Cities, Milwaukee, and Indianapolis stations.
Not bad!

Yeah, it's the 5th generation (260).

Do you know when the 6th will be out? If it's soon, I'll gladly return this and wait.

(You're right about most TV's being "so bad". The Dish channels, including the locals, really don't look that bad on my cheapo, Walmart special, Sanyo 32" analog set.)

Yeah, it's the 5th generation (260).

Do you know when the 6th will be out? If it's soon, I'll gladly return this and wait.

(You're right about most TV's being "so bad". The Dish channels, including the locals, really don't look that bad on my cheapo, Walmart special, Sanyo 32" analog set.)

All new 2007 LG models have it. Samsung this fall, I think. Set-top boxes (STB's) probably late this fall, and definitely around January 1, 2008...when the subsidized boxes go into effect. My friend from Champaign has a 5th gen tuner;
the only real difference between 3rd and 5th gen, for the most part, is the multipath handling. 6th gen takes sensitivity to a new level. It has been discussed that the 6th gen tuner is likely the prototype (or close to it) used to test reception in multipath nastiness that is downtown New York City...except it overloaded and didn't get much. Quite frankly, with 6th gen tuners and analog shutoff...the critics who say that "DXing" (or long range reception of digital TV) and even regular DTV reception in many apartments isn't going to happen are going to be surprised. DX'ing in the last two years has gotten more difficult with analog and digital stations now all pretty much at full power. Not impossible, though: I DX'ed a 1.8 kw WHME-DT from South Bend over WFBT-CA channel 48 last summer! Didn't get a picture lock, but it was just a bit below that. I knew it was them, though. And that with a 3rd gen tuner! When analog shuts down, digital wil go far.

And yep, even Comcast looked OK on my 26" set. With resolutions at full 480i and higher on new TV's...imperfections and low resolution pictures REALLY show up now. Yes, DirecTV and Dish compress their signals. But it isn't until you get a high-def TV that you really notice it.

As per "hvstrk", the assistant chief engineer for Weigel/WCIU/WWME, their goal is to sign on their 15 kilowatt digital stations in South Bend around August 1, which includes ABC, The CW, and an indie. You better believe I want to DX those when they sign on!

As per "hvstrk", the assistant chief engineer for Weigel/WCIU/WWME, their goal is to sign on their 15 kilowatt digital stations in South Bend around August 1, which includes ABC, The CW, and an indie. You better believe I want to DX those when they sign on!
:D

By the way, Gilbert, I've been meaning to tell you I got the new Samsung tuner last week. CC is just a stone's throw away from me, and I happened to be in there walking around, and I saw they had three of them in stock. So I figured, "what the heck?!" - I can always return it if it's no improvement. But I have to say, I'm pleasantly surprised at how good it is. You'd probably benefit a lot from it yourself.

I get all of the Chi. stations totally stable and strong with the U-75r when I'm pointed at Mil. Plus, I've been getting all of the important Mil. channels very steadily, such as 58-1 (CBS), 58.2 (Brewer's games), and 36-1 (self-explanatory). Must have something to do with it's specialized multipath handling or something. I usually get all of their other stations once the sun goes down, but those are all redundant clones anyway.

The program guide is real "purdy", too (very appealing light blue color, and nice design - supposedly similar to TiVo's, so I've read), but the stations could sure stand to send out a little more show info. And all you have to do is "highlight" the shows you want to record, so all you'd have to do is set timers on the recorder.

So I'm definitely leaning heavily towards keeping it. Compared to my Sony, the HD is just a hair less sharp (I just have to turn the sharpness up a couple of notches), but the SD is probably a tad better - it's "cleaner". I don't notice as much grain or mosquito noise with it. It's definitely much better all-around than my Accurian is (except for the fact that you can't "add" channels with a rescan, or even put any in later singularly), so maybe I'll just sell that tuner. Or maybe not, since it's actually better than the Sony for distance. If I keep the Sammy on the main set, I'll need the RS on the other TV whenever I get the line run to it, because I really want to drop those crappy-looking Dish locals. God, I don't know how they can get away with it, they're so bad.


Rammitinski, I have to agree with you as picture is little better that the TV tunner. As Gilbert is saying with the 6th gen will be comming out soon as this fall and I am hoping it will also have a 1080p setting also. I see you still using the Rat antenna have you attemped to get your big antenna up yet or you just waiting for Gilbert come up and put it up for you. You should get that VHF antenna up and get the WMVS 10 DT 8 and watch the PBS 10-1-7 which is so much better than Chicago PBS 11 I don't know if you can get it with your u-75r antenna but I can with my homebuilt DB-2. I am going to make another homebuilt DB-2 and use the Sammy for the Chicago station and use the other antenna and the TV tunner for the Rockford, Madison and Milwaukee station as I have 2 station that on DT-19 WGN and WMTV and I can't have 2 of them on one tuner with out doing rescan.

My local Lowe's have dropped CM and now carries Phillips brand antenna.

-Willie

I only have the CM7777 set for UHF, but I might possibly pull WMVS in occasionally with the U-75R if I reset it. I was never too concerned with getting it because I figured that with all those subchannels, it probably looks bad enough for me not to want to watch it. The only thing I would be interested in is their equivalent of our 11-2 channel, so that I can touch bases with what's going on there locally. I certainly don't care about the kids' sub (got none around), or any that are clones of what WTTW's already got.

I was getting it last fall with the Stealthtenna. So I'm pretty sure I'll get it steadily with a larger model.

I guess I've been a bit complacent about getting one up so far, because once the weather got warm I started getting WDJT-DT in pretty well, (along with WIFR-DT, which I always got well). And since I got the Sammy, I get it in all the time now, 24/7. And, like I said, I lock in all of the Chicago stations perfectly now when pointed towards Milwaukee, so I've even gotten complacent about having a rotor (I just left the u-bolts a little loose, and I've been twisting the mast by hand, when I really need to - but now I just leave it pointed towards Mil., since I still have the indoor one hooked up and pointed towards Chicago, which I get in great).

I've been a little pre-occupied lately, but when I get the chance, I'm gonna take a ride over to Tri-State Electronics, and hopefully I can fit one of those huge Winegard beasts in the car. I'll look at the measurements on line first. Otherwise, I'll just see if I can borrow a larger vehicle. I wish they sold the XG91 (or whatever the model number is) there, though, so I could at least take a look at it.

I guess I've been a bit complacent about getting one up so far, because once the weather got warm I started getting WDJT-DT in pretty well, (along with WIFR-DT). And since I got the Sammy, I get it in all the time now, 24/7. And, like I said, I lock in all of the Chicago stations perfectly now when pointed towards Milwaukee, so I've even gotten complacent about having a rotor (I just left the u-bolts a little loose, and I've been twisting the mast by hand, when I really need to - but now I just leave it pointed towards Mil., since I still have the indoor one hooked up and pointed towards Chicago, which I get in great).

I've been a little pre-occupied lately, but when I get the chance, I'm gonna take a ride over to Tri-State Electronics, and hopefully I can fit one of those huge Winegard beasts in the car. I'll look at the measurements on line first. Otherwise, I'll just see if I can borrow a larger vehicle.

Well, it's tougher to do when it's 0 degrees out. :D And when the LP's sign on, you'll want the big boy. WWME in HD? Hey, "I Love Lucy", etc were all shot on film...and film is HD! (C'mon HVS, give us that channel in HD! :) )

Well, it's tougher to do when it's 0 degrees out. :D And when the LP's sign on, you'll want the big boy. WWME in HD? Hey, "I Love Lucy", etc were all shot on film...and film is HD! (C'mon HVS, give us that channel in HD! :) )
Can I at least put the transmitter in first???? :D Other than Star Trek, I don't think there's any other classics in HD.

I think I'll pass on that "I Love Lucy".

And I'm not one of those "Star Trek" nerdy types, either. I always found that show more than a little hokey and maudlin for my tastes. It's really hard to take Shatner's "hamming" with any shred of seriousness.

And since they released a boxed set of the whole "Get Smart" series not too long ago (of nice, clean, unedited, non-commercial-filled episodes), that really isn't an issue anymore, and there really isn't anything else I'd make an effort to watch on there.

Maybe if they showed "Night Gallery" a little more regularly, and at a nice, late-night hour, when I'm more inclined to come across it....

:)

I only have the CM7777 set for UHF, but I might possibly pull WMVS in occasionally with the U-75R if I reset it. I was never too concerned with getting it because I figured that with all those subchannels, it probably looks bad enough for me not to want to watch it. The only thing I would be interested in is their equivalent of our 11-2 channel, so that I can touch bases with what's going on there locally. I certainly don't care about the kids' sub (got none around), or any that are clones of what WTTW's already got.

I was getting it last fall with the Stealthtenna. So I'm pretty sure I'll get it steadily with a larger model.

I guess I've been a bit complacent about getting one up so far, because once the weather got warm I started getting WDJT-DT in pretty well, (along with WIFR-DT, which I always got well). And since I got the Sammy, I get it in all the time now, 24/7. And, like I said, I lock in all of the Chicago stations perfectly now when pointed towards Milwaukee, so I've even gotten complacent about having a rotor (I just left the u-bolts a little loose, and I've been twisting the mast by hand, when I really need to - but now I just leave it pointed towards Mil., since I still have the indoor one hooked up and pointed towards Chicago, which I get in great).

I've been a little pre-occupied lately, but when I get the chance, I'm gonna take a ride over to Tri-State Electronics, and hopefully I can fit one of those huge Winegard beasts in the car. I'll look at the measurements on line first. Otherwise, I'll just see if I can borrow a larger vehicle. I wish they sold the XG91 (or whatever the model number is) there, though, so I could at least take a look at it.

I do use the CM 7777 also but I have it set to combine and get great result on WMVS on 8 and WMSN on 11.

I can't find a local dist for Antenna Direct but I do have a Local for Winegard and CM.

Can I at least put the transmitter in first???? :D Other than Star Trek, I don't think there's any other classics in HD.


FLASH GORDON in HD ?? :D

I've been a little pre-occupied lately, but when I get the chance, I'm gonna take a ride over to Tri-State Electronics, and hopefully I can fit one of those huge Winegard beasts in the car. I'll look at the measurements on line first. Otherwise, I'll just see if I can borrow a larger vehicle.
I bought an HD7084P a while back and fit it in a PT Cruiser. Although this time around I'm thinking of picking up an HD8200P to put up on my new house, but I also have a bigger car this time, Hyundai Tucson. May pick it up this week if I have the time.

Hi Everyone,

Has anyone else seen a strange vertical line artifact on the WLS 7.1 HD newscasts? I'm wondering if it is just me and my set or them. The issue is what appears to be a very faint line that run vertically, from the bottom of the screen upward. It usually only goes up about 1/4 of the screen, fading out before it hits mid-screen. The line is caused by what "appears" to be a slight difference in the "left" half, versus "right" half of the display (even though there is no such thing). It is usually seen only during times of realtively bright, uniform pictures over this lower-central area.

I have only seen this artifact during the WLS HD Newscasts. Any one else see it? I sure hope so. What do you guys think?

Thanks!

FLASH GORDON in HD ?? :D


I'm getting a visual on Ming and the cave people in high def :)
Who was the big guy with the wings, name? I think he was a buddy of Flash.

Hi Everyone,

Has anyone else seen a strange vertical line artifact on the WLS 7.1 HD newscasts? I'm wondering if it is just me and my set or them. The issue is what appears to be a very faint line that run vertically, from the bottom of the screen upward. It usually only goes up about 1/4 of the screen, fading out before it hits mid-screen. The line is caused by what "appears" to be a slight difference in the "left" half, versus "right" half of the display (even though there is no such thing). It is usually seen only during times of realtively bright, uniform pictures over this lower-central area.

I have only seen this artifact during the WLS HD Newscasts. Any one else see it? I sure hope so. What do you guys think?

Thanks!

I have 7.1 on right now with none of the added features that you descibe. Maybe the evening news is not affected or you may have a glitch with your display. BTW, welcome aboard...

I'm getting a visual on Ming and the cave people in high def :)
Who was the big guy with the wings, name? I think he was a buddy of Flash.


LMAO!! I can't remember but I know who you talking about but that was long time ago. But it would been nice to see the sparks from the rocketship in HD LMAO!!

-Willie

In case anyone is interested, I picked up the Winegard 8200 from Tri State today. The box is 7" x 7" x 122". Had it sticking out the passenger window driving home.

WWME digital is supposed to go to Ch. 39 in the near future. I saw on Wikipedia and I know they are not always accurate, but it showed for both WWME and WFBT that those channels would be taken off as WCIU subchannels once the WWME and WFBT digital channels sign on. Is that true that 26-2 will be gone once 23-1 signs on. I hope not since coverage won't nearly be as good.

Hey all. Newbie here.

I have a question. I live in a basement apartment not far from the WTTW studios (about a mile or so). the front of my building (brick three flat) faces east. I have Comcast, but would like to try getting OTA signals. Any suggestions on antennas? And if so, any ideas on what kind of success I'd have pulling them in?

Unfortunately, I don't have access to the roof for an outside, and I can't permanently mount anything indoors.

WWME digital is supposed to go to Ch. 39 in the near future. I saw on Wikipedia and I know they are not always accurate, but it showed for both WWME and WFBT that those channels would be taken off as WCIU subchannels once the WWME and WFBT digital channels sign on. Is that true that 26-2 will be gone once 23-1 signs on. I hope not since coverage won't nearly be as good.
Wouldn't assume that quite yet. :D

Hey all. Newbie here.

I have a question. I live in a basement apartment not far from the WTTW studios (about a mile or so). the front of my building (brick three flat) faces east. I have Comcast, but would like to try getting OTA signals. Any suggestions on antennas? And if so, any ideas on what kind of success I'd have pulling them in?

Unfortunately, I don't have access to the roof for an outside, and I can't permanently mount anything indoors.

I would start with some indoor antennas and go from there. Lots of people like the "flying saucer" from Radio Shack. I have a Terk, which many think are overrated. It may be, but it works for me. I think I went through about 4 antennas, always returning them to the store when the didn't work, before I found one the I liked.

Hi Everyone,

Has anyone else seen a strange vertical line artifact on the WLS 7.1 HD newscasts? I'm wondering if it is just me and my set or them. The issue is what appears to be a very faint line that run vertically, from the bottom of the screen upward. It usually only goes up about 1/4 of the screen, fading out before it hits mid-screen. The line is caused by what "appears" to be a slight difference in the "left" half, versus "right" half of the display (even though there is no such thing). It is usually seen only during times of realtively bright, uniform pictures over this lower-central area.

I have only seen this artifact during the WLS HD Newscasts. Any one else see it? I sure hope so. What do you guys think?

Thanks!
Yes, I see it too. I had to look real hard but you're right, it is there. Right in the middle of the screen and it does go about 1/4 of the way up. FWIW it is also visible on WLS analog. I have no idea what it is.

I'm getting a visual on Ming and the cave people in high def :)
Who was the big guy with the wings, name? I think he was a buddy of Flash.King Vultan.

Yes, I see it too. I had to look real hard but you're right, it is there. Right in the middle of the screen and it does go about 1/4 of the way up. FWIW it is also visible on WLS analog. I have no idea what it is.

It is part of the graphic "bug" in the bottom right corner. The one that includes the spinning HD and time.

I would start with some indoor antennas and go from there. Lots of people like the "flying saucer" from Radio Shack. I have a Terk, which many think are overrated. It may be, but it works for me. I think I went through about 4 antennas, always returning them to the store when the didn't work, before I found one the I liked.From what I've heard, I don't think that model is overrated, so much as it's overpriced, as is all their stuff. But some of their antennas work just fine. A few of their models are even just rebadged (and price-jacked) Winegards.

Since he's so close though, I'd opt for the HDTVi version over the amped, HDTVa one.

In case anyone is interested, I picked up the Winegard 8200 from Tri State today. The box is 7" x 7" x 122". Had it sticking out the passenger window driving home.That would probably work for me too, then - as long as the cops don't pull me over or anything.

I drove home with a couple of 10 foot mast pieces sticking out of my window like that last fall. Of course, that was only a couple or so blocks :).

From what I've heard, I don't think that model is overrated, so much as it's overpriced, as is all their stuff. But some of their antennas work just fine. A few of their models are even just rebadged (and price-jacked) Winegards.

Since he's so close though, I'd opt for the HDTVi version over the amped, HDTVa one.


I want thank you guys for the advice. I went with the Terk HDTVa amplified one.

After experimenting a bit with placement, I found a spot on top of a bookcase that seems to work quite well. Even WBBM-DT comes in clear. The only problem I have stems from the layout of my apartment. When the flourescent light is on in my kitchen, it causes too much interference with WBBM and I lose the signal. Not a huge problem, just turn off the light and the it clears right up.

I also found that if I move it around to various places, I can pull in some distant UHF's. I got WNDU from South Bend (analog only). While picture wasn't that clear the audio was very good. Same with WSJV ch. 28. Also briefly got WSBT ch. 22 as well. WYIN ch. 56 barely comes in at all though.

I'm pretty satisfied with it actually. The results were far better than I expected in regards to WBBM.


***UPDATE*** I moved the Terk closer to the window and now can pull in WYIN's digital very clearly. The analog is pretty unwatchable but the digital is pretty clear and stable. I also can get Gary's ch. 46, but it pretty snowy. At one point during my experimenting I did briefly get a lock on WNDU's digital, but nothing came through. I now wish I could talk my landlord into letting me mount something on the roof. I'm pretty curious what else I could pull in if I had a roof mount.

That would probably work for me too, then - as long as the cops don't pull me over or anything.

I drove home with a couple of 10 foot mast pieces sticking out of my window like that last fall. Of course, that was only a couple or so blocks :).

Grab one of those red flags that they have in boxes outside a Menard's store (and possibly others), and put it on the end of the box, farthest from the car. Then you'll be fine, as I've seen people do that with even longer lenths of lumber sticking out of their car or SUV trunk. Been there, done that!

That would probably work for me too, then - as long as the cops don't pull me over or anything.

I drove home with a couple of 10 foot mast pieces sticking out of my window like that last fall. Of course, that was only a couple or so blocks :).


On Friday, I saw a guy going down the Freeway, he had a full size 4X4 early 80's model Chevy truck with short flairstyle box and it had a rolll bar too, he had about dozen 2"x4"x18'or20' yep 18-20 foot long. He had the end of boards at the back end of the box with the rest of it going over the roll bar and over the cab and he was going down the freeway. It was a sight to see that from behind, I was worry the guy would loose the board and go backward over the truck and go though someone windshield. there was few bridges but don't know if he made under those too. He did loose one board it slid down from the back over the tailgate. He only use the twine from the Home Depot to tie down the load :eek: YIKES! He had to be towering over 13 feet high. but under 15 ft because he didn't take out the overhead traffic light in Lake Geneva.

First of all,
My antenna is on the roof attached to the chimney.

I had wbbm-dt working great for the past year with out any problems. Then the strom hit this week and and since then WBBM is gone. Ihave tried moving the antenna back and forth and can't get it. One thing that i noticed was that when on wbbm, the signal strength is pretty close to a hundered. On other channels that don't have and signal the strength is at or close to 0. Please help.

Thanks
Dave
Park Ridge

First of all,
My antenna is on the roof attached to the chimney.

I had wbbm-dt working great for the past year with out any problems. Then the strom hit this week and and since then WBBM is gone. Ihave tried moving the antenna back and forth and can't get it. One thing that i noticed was that when on wbbm, the signal strength is pretty close to a hundered. On other channels that don't have and signal the strength is at or close to 0. Please help.

Thanks
Dave
Park Ridge

Hi Dave,

It sounds like that in the storm, your tuner got messed up. Unplug the tuner, wait 15 seconds, then plug it in again. If that doesn't work, re-scan the channels. A power surge might have freaked out the tuner.

Hi guys. I've had this thread in my subscribed list for a few months now, skimming it for info whenever I can, but I don't think my situation has been duplicated here.

Specifically, there has been a dramatic change in my reception of HD OTA CBS, which started maybe 3 months ago, but I have no clue as to how to account for it.

First, here are my viewership details:

* Glen Ellyn (western suburbs due west, approx. 35 miles outside of downtown Chicago).
* Second floor of a two floor apartment complex.
* Fairly unobstructed view between here and the city (as far as my eyes can see).
* I'm hooked up to the roof antenna.
* I don't have any idea what kind/quality of antenna it is.
* 15' RF/coax cable from wall receptacle, and probably another 25' to actual antenna.
* OTA delivered to me via Tivo 3 HD DVR, 7-8 months in use.
* Signal strength as reported by my Tivo gives all local HD channels (CBS, NBC, ABC, PBS-11, CW, FOX) typical readings starting at 88, mostly low to mid 90's.


Throughout most of my time getting OTA HD from this setup, CBS HD, despite a signal similarly strong as most of the other stations, would briefly cut out on an avg. of every 10-15 seconds. Loss of picture (partial pixelation, etc.), loss of sound, usually lasting anywhere from 1-4 seconds each time.

But sometime in the last few months, I noticed that CBS HD was coming in MUCH more consistently good. Same signal strength readings, nothing new there (and I understand that those don't tell the whole story anyway). I haven't the foggiest reason why. No equipment changes have occurred. The only thing I can thing of is the weather warming up (though the improvement seemed as if it started at the tail end of winter).

Anything to explain this positive change that I haven't considered yet? Maybe I should just keep quiet and hope the winds of fortune don't turn back against me. :D

Hey everyone. I was wondering if someone can answer this question for me. I have my new HDTV and everything is working great - signal reception is consistently above 80%, replaced some RG59 cables with RG6 and my HD experience is great.

One thing I noticed - when I watch Cubs games on WGN and there is a lot of movement, I can see the individual squares pretty easily on the screen. Very pixilated. However, when the games are on WCIU, I don't have that same issue. If my signal reception were closer to 100% on WGN, would those squares disappear, or at least be less obvious? Or is it the type of TV I have? (I have a brand new Samsung 23" television)

WGN has had these motion artifacts since they first ventured into HD. Their equipment is obviousy in need of updating, but I guess that would be quite costly.

WGN has had these motion artifacts since they first ventured into HD. Their equipment is obviousy in need of updating, but I guess that would be quite costly.
No comment on pricing :eek: WGN has a couple of things going against their HD signal. First of all they are 1080i. That takes more bandwidth than 720p. (about a mb or two more) Secondly they have a subchannel. They utilize Variable Bit Rate so it shouldn't be as painful as Constant Bit Rate. Outside of that, who knows. The HD signal they send me for our games is spectacular. (enough to make a grown man cry) :D

Anybody here seen the "Nature's Colors" special on WTTW-HD?
That one's gonna stay on my DVR for a LONG time to come!!
I rented "Nature's Colors" on an HD DVD Combo disk from Netflix. As you may recall from the mid-April discussion, I thought some of the images of trees against the sky left something to be desired. Some posters felt this might be due to WTTWD's 720p transmission. After two months, a meaningful comparison is really not possible. But I was not really bothered by those scenes on my 720p front projector. (What really bothered me was their apparent post-production digital zoom at the beginning (and end) to capture a fish jumping from a lake. Extremely soft.)

Anyway, Rammitinski, if it's still on your DVR and you have HD DVD gear, perhaps you could do a better comparison.

Specifically, there has been a dramatic change in my reception of HD OTA CBS, which started maybe 3 months ago, but I have no clue as to how to account for it.

First, here are my viewership details:

* Glen Ellyn (western suburbs due west, approx. 35 miles outside of downtown Chicago).
* Second floor of a two floor apartment complex.
* Fairly unobstructed view between here and the city (as far as my eyes can see).
* I'm hooked up to the roof antenna.
* I don't have any idea what kind/quality of antenna it is.
* 15' RF/coax cable from wall receptacle, and probably another 25' to actual antenna.
* OTA delivered to me via Tivo 3 HD DVR, 7-8 months in use.
* Signal strength as reported by my Tivo gives all local HD channels (CBS, NBC, ABC, PBS-11, CW, FOX) typical readings starting at 88, mostly low to mid 90's.


But sometime in the last few months, I noticed that CBS HD was coming in MUCH more consistently good. Same signal strength readings, nothing new there (and I understand that those don't tell the whole story anyway). I haven't the foggiest reason why. No equipment changes have occurred. Anything to explain this positive change that I haven't considered yet? Maybe I should just keep quiet and hope the winds of fortune don't turn back against me. :D

You or a neighbor might have been running a central heating unit that caused interference. It could really be just about anything, so I say just sit back and enjoy. :)

hvs10trk,
Speaking of WGN do you know how they encode closed captioning? I contacted them a few weeks back because it's badly delayed and received the answer below.

The HD captioning timing is currently a challenge. Let's take Friends. It arrives here as a standard definition program with the captioning embedded in it. We send that SD version to the "analog" Channel 9 transmitter and everything stays intact. We also take an SD version and upconvert it to HD video wise - slow the audio to match and put it back together before putting it into the HD captioning encoder. That encoder is fed the captioning data from the original SD signal and it converts that data into HD compatible data, inserting it into the HD signal just prior to transmission. There is a great of data translation going on - plus the up conversion delay - which means that the information is delayed when reinserted into the HD data stream. Depending on the HD encoding (read compression) process, this is further delayed by a variable amount. We usually see HD captions running between 2.5 and 4 seconds behind the SD version when viewed off air via our digital transmitter. You're suffering through one more delay thought. Since you're watching via HD cable, your HD cable set top box has to receive the captioning data, decode it, and then insert it into the component signal that is connected to your HD display. Our testing found that this adds between .5 and 2 additional seconds delay to the actual displayed text - again depending on a host of variables associated with the cable box.


Mostly makes sense, but then why don't other channels seem to have the same problem?

I'm hard of hearing but get a fair amount of the audio, however I need the closed captioning to fill in the blanks. It's hard to do that when it's so far off of the audio.

Anyway, Rammitinski, if it's still on your DVR and you have HD DVD gear, perhaps you could do a better comparison.Nope, no HD-DVD. Since I pretty much never watch DVD's, I won't even consider getting into that stuff until they can record in HD, have a pass-through HD tuner, a hard drive, and a built-in programming guide. And I might be waitin' forever for that one :).

I'm having enough problems just with the display side of things. My Elite 1140 just went on the fritz after 3 months. Everything is either heavily greenish-brown or purple-tinged, and there is "crawling moss" and blocking artifacts that were never evident on any sources before on all sources now. And no amount of adjusting helps.

What's weird is that I saw the colors change literally right before my very eyes. It's not like anything went bad between times it was on, like when we had that lightning storm last week. (I do have a decent surge protector on it.) And I haven't touched any of the color or contrast settings since the first month, when I only had to make a few small tweaks, since the colors were so great right out of the box. The thing was absolutely perfect up till this point.

And to top things off, it's a month past the 60-day, "defective exchange" point.

edit: guys came to pick it up this morning and bring it in to the shop, so we'll see how it goes.

Didn't the Blu-Ray camp originally claim they would have recording capability from the outset? Maybe that applied to Japan only.

There are standalone, PC Blu-Ray burners on the market now here, if that's what they meant. I know Sony has a couple.

Nope, no HD-DVD. Since I pretty much never watch DVD's, I won't even consider getting into that stuff until they can record in HD, have a pass-through HD tuner, a hard drive, and a built-in programming guide. And I might be waitin' forever for that one :).

I'm having enough problems just with the display side of things. ...
Sorry to hear about your hardware problems. I hope you'll get a satisfactory solution soon.
I mostly watch DVD and HD DVD and only turn on my ATSC tuner for special programs. Perhaps at some time in the future I'll be able to do a "proper" comparison of the same program -- OTA versus HD media.

Sorry to hear about your hardware problems. I hope you'll get a satisfactory solution soon.
I mostly watch DVD and HD DVD and only turn on my ATSC tuner for special programs. Perhaps at some time in the future I'll be able to do a "proper" comparison of the same program -- OTA versus HD media. I actually own 3 SD DVD recorder/players, but I have and use them more for their HDD's than anything else. I occasionally will transfer something to DVD, though.

Believe it or not, I only own 2 pre-recorded DVD's - and those are both music DVD's.

Plus, I still have the Sony HD DVR. And I still do have the program you mention on there - it's too bad I don't have any way to dump it to DVD in full HD, though. There's actually quite a few PBS-HD things I've got on there that I wish I could do that with.

Plus, I still have the Sony HD DVR. And I still do have the program you mention on there - it's too bad I don't have any way to dump it to DVD in full HD, though. There's actually quite a few PBS-HD things I've got on there that I wish I could do that with.
I believe that some folks are burning HD material from their computers in HD DVD format to regular red laser DVD-R or DVD+R that can be played back on HD DVD players. Probably for Blu-ray also.... http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=705146 I don't know if anyone does this from a Sony HD DVR. But it would be nice!

I believe that some folks are burning HD material from their computers in HD DVD format to regular red laser DVD-R or DVD+R that can be played back on HD DVD players. Probably for Blu-ray also.... http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=705146 I don't know if anyone does this from a Sony HD DVR. But it would be nice!No, unfortunately there's no way to do it, and even the experienced hackers on the Sony thread have failed to do it. They can't even replace the hard drives, because the thing is so bullet-proof (you know Sony and their "protectiveness" :rolleyes:.)

I knew that you could record to DVD in HD with the right PC setup, but I didn't realize you could play the discs back on an HD-DVD deck, though. That's cool.

WYIN

Does anybody know what happened to WYIN? Both analog and dt went out early yesterday afternoon about the time the storms hit northwest Indiana. They are out ota, comcast and directv. I wonder if maybe they got hit by the storms?

WYIN

Does anybody know what happened to WYIN? Both analog and dt went out early yesterday afternoon about the time the storms hit northwest Indiana. They are out ota, comcast and directv. I wonder if maybe they got hit by the storms?

There as a story in the Trib that said an electrical transformer was hit by lightning, didn't know when it would be repaired.

There as a story in the Trib that said an electrical transformer was hit by lightning, didn't know when it would be repaired.
Press release on their web site:
http://www.lakeshoreptv.com/res/pdf/Web-Storm-damage.pdf
Merrillville, Indiana— The severe storm that swept through Northwest Indiana on Monday
June 18th knocked Lakeshore Public Television off the air, leaving the station’s broadcast
systems in need of repair. Engineers are diligently working to restore the broadcast signal.

I don't know when it came back, but they are on-the-air now (or at least on my Comcast cable).

nothing (knowingly) has changed in my setup, except for the fact that my reception on all channels is barely half of what it normally is. across the board, stations are weaker, and some stations (wciu, wbbm) i cannot pull at all. wmaq comes and goes and even 11 (which i never have even had a flicker from) is in/out.

is there something in the weather/clouds/atmosphere that is making this a bad weekend for watching ota digital in the chicago area?

nothing (knowingly) has changed in my setup, except for the fact that my reception on all channels is barely half of what it normally is. across the board, stations are weaker, and some stations (wciu, wbbm) i cannot pull at all. wmaq comes and goes and even 11 (which i never have even had a flicker from) is in/out.

is there something in the weather/clouds/atmosphere that is making this a bad weekend for watching ota digital in the chicago area?

A low pressure system stalled over central/southern Illinois. I'm getting interference from Madison, WI tonight as a result. And all the humidity is causing electrical interference from soggy power lines on WBBM. WCIU and WTTW all have Madison analog counterparts, so it sounds like you are getting this

You or a neighbor might have been running a central heating unit that caused interference. It could really be just about anything, so I say just sit back and enjoy. :)

It doesn't seem likely in this immediate area, but who knows. It'll remain a mystery, I suppose. What's weird, or perhaps revealing of some clue, all the other HD signals (NBC, ABC, WB, WTTW) are a little more "finicky" now, when they rarely were before. In other words, I get a few more little "blips" of video/audio interference or quality diminishment on those other channels. Random enough to not be obnoxious to my viewing enjoyment, but clearly increased starting somewhere around the time that CBS improved. It's like CBS's bad HD mojo got dispersed to the rest, scattering poor bits of reception to the other HD channels. :confused: :D

Hi

I have had cable my entire life. Never dealt with an antenna. Do I have any chance of getting anything OTA with an indoor antenna? I live in McHenry. If so, what kind of antenna would be the best bet?

Hi

I have had cable my entire life. Never dealt with an antenna. Do I have any chance of getting anything OTA with an indoor antenna? I live in McHenry. If so, what kind of antenna would be the best bet?Do you have any windows with a reasonably unblocked view facing in the directions of Chicago (SSE), Rockford (WNW), or Milwaukee (NNE)?

Better yet is if you could place it on a second floor in one of those directions, and run the coax from there to wherever the TV is.

There are a few good antenna models you can try, but you'll most likely need an amplified one to receive anything steadily.

(You can forget about WBBM-DT from there with an indoor model - but you may be able to receive CBS out of one or both of the other markets.)

I can receive all of the Chicago & Rockford stations with an indoor antenna, and I'm a few miles south of you, near 31 & 14. But I'm also on pretty high ground.

You'll definitely need to get as high and open as possible to have a shot at any of those three markets.

nothing (knowingly) has changed in my setup, except for the fact that my reception on all channels is barely half of what it normally is. across the board, stations are weaker, and some stations (wciu, wbbm) i cannot pull at all. wmaq comes and goes and even 11 (which i never have even had a flicker from) is in/out.

is there something in the weather/clouds/atmosphere that is making this a bad weekend for watching ota digital in the chicago area?

Several things can happen
First, the humidity in the atmosphere is way way up. Water vapor is a good absorber of RF, particularly at higher freqs where most of the Chicago stations are, sos the signal from the desired stations become weaker

Second, there has been some modest tropo skip lately. So the signals from the undesired co-channel interfering stations becomes stronger.

Put it all together and you have a seasonal decrease in ability to tune in a station.

Also, not to mention that atmospherics get stronger what with all the thunderstorms across the US, and summer is just a plain bad time to be watching TV.

I've notice lately that both ch7 and ch11 fade out on me during the evening. ch9 is usually close behind. I attribute that to tropo skip as the atmosophere quiets down for the evening.

-dickm

nothing (knowingly) has changed in my setup, except for the fact that my reception on all channels is barely half of what it normally is. across the board, stations are weaker, and some stations (wciu, wbbm) i cannot pull at all. wmaq comes and goes and even 11 (which i never have even had a flicker from) is in/out.

is there something in the weather/clouds/atmosphere that is making this a bad weekend for watching ota digital in the chicago area?
We (WCIU) get knocked out by WKOW-TV in Madison alot. Especially to the northwest of chicago. Mainly the 2 PSIP's mix and we'll show up as 27-1.

Do you have any windows with a reasonably unblocked view facing in the directions of Chicago (SSE), Rockford (WNW), or Milwaukee (NNE)?

Better yet is if you could place it on a second floor in one of those directions, and run the coax from there to wherever the TV is.

There are a few good antenna models you can try, but you'll most likely need an amplified one to receive anything steadily.

(You can forget about WBBM-DT from there with an indoor model - but you may be able to receive CBS out of one or both of the other markets.)

I can receive all of the Chicago & Rockford stations with an indoor antenna, and I'm a few miles south of you, near 31 & 14. But I'm also on pretty high ground.

You'll definitely need to get as high and open as possible to have a shot at any of those three markets.

Thanks, I got results with an RCA ANT525. Honestly, I couldn't believe it.

i am back up with most of my stations, antenna back in usual location. however, wfld and wciu .1 /.2 are dead to me. I am on the west side, about 2.5 miles from the tower of power. any chance i am getting really bad multipath all of a sudden from those guys? it can't be a power issue from their end.

oddly enough, wbbm is stronger than ever.

I am on the west side, about 2.5 miles from the tower of power. any chance i am getting really bad multipath all of a sudden from those guys?You're not using an amplified antenna by any chance, are you?

If you were, I'd suspect overload, because the stations would be coming in stronger now than when it was cooler.

Do you have any trees around you that have gotten fuller?

More cars passing by than usual? Because you can get reflections off of those, too.

Thanks, I got results with an RCA ANT525. Honestly, I couldn't believe it.That's great to hear.

What kind of results are you getting?

The reason I ask is because there are other antennas that people have generally had better results with.

i am back up with most of my stations, antenna back in usual location. however, wfld and wciu .1 /.2 are dead to me. I am on the west side, about 2.5 miles from the tower of power. any chance i am getting really bad multipath all of a sudden from those guys? it can't be a power issue from their end.

oddly enough, wbbm is stronger than ever.
Good posibility. I believe we both feed the same antenna.

Good posibility. I believe we both feed the same antenna.

i do have an amp in the line (many feet from the antenna) due to the distance the cables travel in my house. i had tried routing around that off when this all started, to no avail. to be honest, i forgot about it until you mentioned it again. i will turn it off tonight and see.

there is a tree that is no fuller now than it was a month ago. i actually move my antenna once the tree fills in every year.

i live on western avenue, is there ever any less traffic on that street? :cool:

Some Nice Tropo This Afternoon

Around 1:30 this afternoon some real nice tropo from the Rockford area appeared. It's not unusual for me to lock WTVO or WQRF-DT but today WREX-DT and even WIFR-DT and TV completely overtook Chicago WWME 23 and LP 41. First time I've ever locked WREX or WIFR-DT. BTW I did not like WIFR's upper right hand bug.

Some Nice Tropo This Afternoon

Around 1:30 this afternoon some real nice tropo from the Rockford area appeared. It's not unusual for me to lock WTVO or WQRF-DT but today WREX-DT and even WIFR-DT and TV completely overtook Chicago WWME 23 and LP 41. First time I've ever locked WREX or WIFR-DT. BTW I did not like WIFR's upper right hand bug.Quit complainin'.

It WAS CBS, wasn't it?

:D

[b]lol

Hey there!

I'm new to the OTA side of things and I hope you can help me. I live out in Gilberts, IL and am just starting to piece my HD OTA stuff together. I bought the Radio Shack 15-1892 indoor antenna and of course - no WBBM (2).

For my area what would you suggest would be the ideal indoor antenna?

Quit complainin'.

It WAS CBS, wasn't it?

:D

LOL! Nice catch, retro. yeah, i don't like it either, and that's my CBS affil out here. They've had that stain up since day 1 on the upper right corner. I don't like it either.

Hey there!

I'm new to the OTA side of things and I hope you can help me. I live out in Gilberts, IL and am just starting to piece my HD OTA stuff together. I bought the Radio Shack 15-1892 indoor antenna and of course - no WBBM (2).

For my area what would you suggest would be the ideal indoor antenna?

Hello Steve, and welcome to the forum!

What channels are you getting now, and what do you want to get? If you can fit a ChannelMaster 4228 in your attic and put a rotor and preamplifier on it, you'll get Chicago and Rockford, and probably Milwaukee as well. One guy used to be on the board who also had a high-gain antenna got all 3. Either way, that's an ideal antenna for your location. And unless you get something outside, you probably won't get WBBM-DT. Those are available at Fry's for about $59.
Much more directional than the one you have, but much better signal pick up.

Thanks Gilbert!

Would this be something I could also mount in my attic? There is an issue with mounting on the outside.

I did look back in the threads and noticed you mentioned Radio Shack's VU-190 mounted in an attic. Could this work in my area as well?

Thanks

Thanks Gilbert!

Would this be something I could also mount in my attic? There is an issue with mounting on the outside.

I did look back in the threads and noticed you mentioned Radio Shack's VU-190 mounted in an attic. Could this work in my area as well?

Thanks

Yes, if you can get it up there. The 4228 needs 40" of clearance; if your attic entrance isn't that big, forget it. A VU-190 with a preamplifier will also work nicely; with it, you have a *chance* at getting WBBM-DT. If you can get to Tri-State Electronics (www.tselectonic.com) over in Mt. Prospect (see address on web site), this is even better:

https://www.tselectronic.com/winegard/hd7084.html

Costs more, but it is big and worth it. Make sure it can fit in your attic. Boom length is 131".

Check with Menards. I haven't been in there in a while, but they used to sell them. Pretty sure Fry's would have what you need as well.

Hey jmdomini. I live a few miles west of you off Rt 34 (Ogden) Are you using an OTA Antenna and getting good reception from Chicago and surrounding areas? If so, may I ask what setup you have?

Thanks
RBH406

is there anyone with any experience with the winegard ss-3000 (amped or not, inside) , 5 miles or less from downtown?

can it get wbbm? does it suffer from signal overload requiring an attenuator?

it seems like there are a lot of area there to catch signal (and/or multi-path), regardless of what the ad says about elimintating such things by "tuning the best signal possible for your digital television reception."

is there anyone with any experience with the winegard ss-3000?....can it get wbbm?It might. But I think you'd do better just diplexing rabbit ears to it for WBBM - I don't know if the ss-3000 is really wide enough. Being so close though, it might work.

It may help with the other stations.

I don't know if you could get it somewhere where you can easily return it (and I know it's pretty expensive/overpriced to get stuck with if it doesn't work) - but it might be worth a try.

Hey jmdomini. I live a few miles west of you off Rt 34 (Ogden) Are you using an OTA Antenna and getting good reception from Chicago and surrounding areas? If so, may I ask what setup you have?

Thanks
RBH406I think he just finally gave up completely awhile ago and got cable. Mainly because he could never get CBS, even from Rockford.

But I believe he was trying from apartments.

I'd say if Gilbert's had the success he's had from further out west in Dekalb with an attic setup, you might have a shot with something similar.

Ramm is right, I gave up. I had been using a Winegard PR4400 which actually worked quite well. Minus CBS of course, until I broke it that is. I think I tried every antenna known to man that would fit in the limited space I have to work with for CBS to no avail. I got pretty close at one point to getting WIFR, that is until that Korean channel came on the air out of Chicago. :mad:

If you want to get everything including CBS here there's just no way around having a BIG antenna!

It might. But I think you'd do better just diplexing rabbit ears to it for WBBM - I don't know if the ss-3000 is really wide enough. Being so close though, it might work.

It may help with the other stations.

I don't know if you could get it somewhere where you can easily return it (and I know it's pretty expensive/overpriced to get stuck with if it doesn't work) - but it might be worth a try.

I am in Brookfield (12-13 miles SW of towers) and I diplex (using a splitter/combiner) rabbit ears to get WBBM. I picked up the Terk version of the SS3000 at BB to "try out" and then returned it and got the Winegard at Solid Signal.

For more detailed posts of my experiences (and they are detailed :rolleyes: ) see the link below, which leads to more links, and links... :D

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=9367771#post9367771

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=9673384#post9673384

I am in Brookfield (12-13 miles SW of towers) and I diplex rabbit ears to get WBBM. I picked up the Terk version of the SS3000 at BB to "try out" and then returned it and got the Winegard at Solid Signal.

For more detailed posts of my experiences (and they are detailed :rolleyes: ) see the link below, which leads to more links, and links... :D

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=9367771#post9367771

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=9673384#post9673384

two things:

i can't seem to find a terk one at bb online that looks like the ss-3000. terk model#?

seeing as i have made enough posts to become a senior member i should know the answer to this, but how exactly does one go about diplex'ing anything into anything?

two things:

i can't seem to find a terk one at bb online that looks like the ss-3000. terk model#?

seeing as i have made enough posts to become a senior member i should know the answer to this, but how exactly does one go about diplex'ing anything into anything?

Terk HDTVlp is the model. It looks like it is not available at BB anymore. A quick google search revealed it is not available in B&M stores either.

As for the splitter/combiner, it simply combines the two (F-connector) antenna sources (rabbit ears and SS-3000) into one outgoing F-connector. I can't remember the exact model I use.

Of course (?), the rabbit ears needed a 300-to-75 transformer like this (http://www.radioshack.com/product/index.jsp?productId=2062054&cp=&sr=1&origkw=300+ohm&kw=300+ohm&parentPage=search).

Terk HDTVlp is the model. It looks like it is not available at BB anymore. A quick google search revealed it is not available in B&M stores either.

As for the diplexer, it simply combines the two (F-connector) antenna sources (rabbit ears and SS-3000) into one outgoing F-connector. I can't remember the exact model I use.

Of course (?), the rabbit ears needed a 300-to-75 transformer like this (http://www.radioshack.com/product/index.jsp?productId=2062054&cp=&sr=1&origkw=300+ohm&kw=300+ohm&parentPage=search).

atc, i already have a pretty good bird in hand. the thing that is that i am now using my backup antenna and need to buy a new one. the silver sensor has done me well going on three years now, even wbbm, even set up outside, but i would love to get it all inside. if i could find a ss-3000 somewhere that i could return it i would give it a go. short of that will proly stay with what i have and buy a new silver sensor for backup.

global thanks for the help as always.

Maybe better than getting another Silver Sensor -

Get the Terk HDTVi, which is basically a Silver Sensor with VHF rabbit ears.

(Not the HDTVa, which looks exactly like the HDTVi, but is amplified.)

Tri-State Electronics, which is on NW Highway in Mount Prospect, has the ss3000 on their website. Maybe give them a call and see if they sell it in the store. Or, maybe you can order it, and pick it up and/or return it there if you have to.

Maybe better than getting another Silver Sensor -

Get the Terk HDTVi, which is basically a Silver Sensor with VHF rabbit ears.

(Not the HDTVa, which looks exactly like the HDTVi, but is amplified.)

Tri-State Electronics, which is on NW Highway in Mount Prospect, has the ss3000 on their website. Maybe give them a call and see if they sell it in the store. Or, maybe you can order it, and pick it up and/or return it there if you have to.

thanks for the head up on that, they don't allow returns on outside antennas, but i guess they do for indoor ones. $80 at this point seems a little steep to solve my little problem, but will keep it in mind.

Yeah - it's only the outdoor ones that can't be returned. I did double-check that.

I wonder if the SS-1000 would work for you? It's also "supposed" to be good in an "inner-city" environment.

'Course, that's not too cheap either, and it doesn't come with any kind of a stand for indoors.

I've still seen those occasionally at BB, though. I know the "open box" one that I tried from my local BB (with and without an added amp) could not pick up anything. And I do mean ANYTHING. I think it may have been busted or something.

If you are having trouble getting WBBM-DT tonight, it's because of "E-Skip" on channels 2 and 3. On channel 2 analog at 6:59 PM, I got WGBH Boston, MA and then briefly, WCBS-TV, New York City. Not bad for an indoor antenna. :-) Thanks to the top of the hour ID's, I was able to grab WGBH, and then I also had, briefly, a PBS station with three sets of tiny call letters on them in the lower right hand part of the screen which were too small for anyone to read (note to that station: that's illegal).

If you are having trouble getting WBBM-DT tonight, it's because of "E-Skip" on channels 2 and 3. On channel 2 analog at 6:59 PM, I got WGBH Boston, MA and then briefly, WCBS-TV, New York City. Not bad for an indoor antenna. :-) Thanks to the top of the hour ID's, I was able to grab WGBH, and then I also had, briefly, a PBS station with three sets of tiny call letters on them in the lower right hand part of the screen which were too small for anyone to read (note to that station: that's illegal).
That's a nice skip! :D

Terk HDTVlp is the model. It looks like it is not available at BB anymore. A quick google search revealed it is not available in B&M stores either.

As for the splitter/combiner, it simply combines the two (F-connector) antenna sources (rabbit ears and SS-3000) into one outgoing F-connector. I can't remember the exact model I use.

Of course (?), the rabbit ears needed a 300-to-75 transformer like this (http://www.radioshack.com/product/index.jsp?productId=2062054&cp=&sr=1&origkw=300+ohm&kw=300+ohm&parentPage=search).

Looked at my setup at home and this (http://www.radioshack.com/product/index.jsp?productId=2062050&cp=2032057&f=Taxonomy%2FRSK%2F2032057&categoryId=2032057&kwCatId=2032057&kw=hybrid&parentPage=search) is the splitter/combiner I have. The people who reviewed it gave it bad marks but they were dealing with cable/satellite. It works just fine for me for OTA with no signal loss. (I verified that by bypassing the splitter/combiner and going directly to the tuner.)

Looked at my setup at home and this (http://www.radioshack.com/product/index.jsp?productId=2062050&cp=2032057&f=Taxonomy%2FRSK%2F2032057&categoryId=2032057&kwCatId=2032057&kw=hybrid&parentPage=search) is the diplexer I have. How about calling it a splitter or splitter/combiner. Around here, a diplexer is normally though of as something like this. (http://www.solidsignal.com/prod_display.asp?prod=SPDX100)

A splitter/combiner can cause bad multipath problems when used to combine two antennas. A jointenna is often used instead if its filter characteristics can fit the situation.

If you are having trouble getting WBBM-DT tonight, it's because of "E-Skip" on channels 2 and 3. On channel 2 analog at 6:59 PM, I got WGBH Boston, MA and then briefly, WCBS-TV, New York City. Not bad for an indoor antenna. :-) Thanks to the top of the hour ID's, I was able to grab WGBH, and then I also had, briefly, a PBS station with three sets of tiny call letters on them in the lower right hand part of the screen which were too small for anyone to read (note to that station: that's illegal).

Great job with an indoor antenna, Sebenste!

Sebenste and hvs10trk, E-skip was really wild in several parts of the country Tuesday from around 10 a.m. to around 8 p.m. EDT. I even caught a DTV station with the skip (using an outdoor antenna), and not once, but twice during the day Tuesday, just after 11:00 a.m. and just after 4 p.m. With PSIP and complete decoding with video and audio, an RCA ATSC11 (STB) captured KOTA-DT-2, Rapid City, SD @ 922 miles (screen shots attached). I've seen this station before, but never two different times in the same day. Luckily I had the day off, as it was a great day of DXing E-skip.

Steve (north side of Indy)

How about calling it a splitter or splitter/combiner. Around here, a diplexer is normally though of as something like this. (http://www.solidsignal.com/prod_display.asp?prod=SPDX100)

A splitter/combiner can cause bad multipath problems when used to combine two antennas. A jointenna is often used instead if its filter characteristics can fit the situation.

Point well taken. Edited earlier posts.

Great job with an indoor antenna, Sebenste!

Sebenste and hvs10trk, E-skip was really wild in several parts of the country Wednesday from around 10 a.m. to around 8 p.m. EDT. I even caught a DTV station with the skip (using an outdoor antenna), and not once, but twice during the day Wednesday, just after 11:00 a.m. and just after 4 p.m. With PSIP and complete decoding with video and audio, an RCA ATSC11 (STB) captured KOTA-DT-2, Rapid City, SD @ 922 miles (screen shots attached). I've seen this station before, but never two different times in the same day. Luckily I had the day off, as it was a great day of DXing E-skip.

Steve (north side of Indy)

Yeah, I saw that! Channels 2 and 3 were hot. I have the day off today, and as of 10:25 AM Friday 6/30, "E" is kicking in again with WBBM obliterated in noise from other signals. But Wednesday was the best E-skip I've seen in about two years. The last great one was skipping all the way up to channel 5.

BTW, I am anything but sure on this, but I think the PBS I briefly got was KETS-TV out of Little Rock, AR. If so, it would be the first time I got that. Last week I managed to get KWGN-TV 2 from Denver for the first time...from the BACK of my antenna!

Yeah, I saw that! Channels 2 and 3 were hot. I have the day off today, and as of 10:25 AM Friday 6/30, "E" is kicking in again with WBBM obliterated in noise from other signals. But Wednesday was the best E-skip I've seen in about two years. The last great one was skipping all the way up to channel 5.

BTW, I am anything but sure on this, but I think the PBS I briefly got was KETS-TV out of Little Rock, AR. If so, it would be the first time I got that. Last week I managed to get KWGN-TV 2 from Denver for the first time...from the BACK of my antenna!
If I only had a VHF in our transmitter room. Who knows what I could see from there. Only downside is I think the noise floor would break me at that height.

Pardon my faux pas above. The GREAT DXing day was Tuesday, not Wednesday.... Corrected above.

To my surprise things seemed better today. Only channel 50 didn't have any EPG data, my OnAirGT couldn't "see" it.

Are there any FCC requirements or deadlines for OTA broadcast EPG?

I'm just wondering if anyone's heard anything on the status of WBBM's request to move to channel 12 yet. Or is that something the FCC won't get around to for awhile?

I'm just wondering if anyone's heard anything on the status of WBBM's request to move to channel 12 yet. Or is that something the FCC won't get around to for awhile?
It'll take a little bit to get a CP for that.

But Wednesday was the best E-skip I've seen in about two years.I'm picking up WRTV-DT tonight. I had to look it up to see where it was from - it's from Indianapolis.

I'm also getting WYIN-DT in real strong.

I think I'll try pointing towards Q.C. now and see what comes up.

I'm picking up WRTV-DT tonight. I had to look it up to see where it was from - it's from Indianapolis.

I'm also getting WYIN-DT in real strong.

I think I'll try pointing towards Q.C. now and see what comes up.

I've been busy DXing the past few nights and forgot to post here for all of you to try it out. Tonight (Monday, 7/2) should be very good as well. Green Bay, Madison and Milwaukee all booming in, as well as South Bend, Grand Rapids and my first ever signal from WYIN-DT all the way from DeKalb.

WRTV is a blowtorch and is relatively clear channel, with little to interfere with it in the area once you get away from Sears Tower a little. I got it several times last year. I am getting blips of it tonight here, but currently I am watching WQAD-DT 8.1, physically broadcasting on channel 38. Yep, WCPX-TV 38 is being destroyed out here by their 1 mw signal.

If you missed it, Monday evening, with a warm front coming through, should be decent to excellent as well.

I was getting WMBD-DT (31.1) out of Peoria and KWKB-DT (20.1) out of Cedar Rapids tonight.

Also, a few others from Q.C.

I thought it was going to be a good night when I was having trouble with 105.5 driving through South Barrington. :eek:

Yeah, I've been having occasional problems with some of the the locals, 'cause it seems they're skipping right over me. I've been having better reception with some of the channels I normally get from Chi. and Mil. from the side of my antenna.

(The weird thing about getting the Peoria channel was that I was pointed west!)

I've only recently started investigating OTA but before I get too far in to it I would like to see if it is anything I can really get in to with my current situation. I live in a first floor condo in Oak Lawn. The room where my TV is faces east, however there are trees and other condos on the other side of the street from me. Can I reasonably expect to have any luck with OTA especially since it will have to be an indoor antenna? Or are the trees and the other condos on the other side of the street going to be too much of an obstacle?

Thanks for any help.

I've only recently started investigating OTA but before I get too far in to it I would like to see if it is anything I can really get in to with my current situation. I live in a first floor condo in Oak Lawn. The room where my TV is faces east, however there are trees and other condos on the other side of the street from me. Can I reasonably expect to have any luck with OTA especially since it will have to be an indoor antenna? Or are the trees and the other condos on the other side of the street going to be too much of an obstacle?

Thanks for any help.

Hi, uh, unoriginal... :)

The trees and condos on the other side of the street are OK. Obviously, you have three problems you know of: antenna must be indoors, distance from the transmitters is significant, and lack of height of your antenna.

There are a few things we need to know to really help. If you have a 5th generation tuner or later, "ghosts", or "multipath" on analog signals won't hurt much on digital signals...earlier generation tuners really struggle with it.
If it is older than a year and a half or so, your situation will be more difficult.

Do you have access to an attic? If so, a ChannelMaster 4220 or 4221 (or if you can swing it, a 39"x 40" 4228 antenna will work. A ChannelMaster 4220 and am amplifier with a 5th gen tuner should get all your UHF channels from Chicago, which is to say everything but WBBM-DT. I haven't tried the 4220 yet, but others like it (has a great design in theory), and it is 20"x17" if you can hide it somewhere:

http://www.warrenelectronics.com/antennas/4220.htm

WBBM is VHF-only and at low power, and at that distance, it is unlikely you'll get it
unless you have a VHF-LO (channels 2-6) antenna and if you are fortunate.

Hi, uh, unoriginal... :)

The trees and condos on the other side of the street are OK. Obviously, you have three problems you know of: antenna must be indoors, distance from the transmitters is significant, and lack of height of your antenna.

There are a few things we need to know to really help. If you have a 5th generation tuner or later, "ghosts", or "multipath" on analog signals won't hurt much on digital signals...earlier generation tuners really struggle with it.
If it is older than a year and a half or so, your situation will be more difficult.

Do you have access to an attic? If so, a ChannelMaster 4220 or 4221 (or if you can swing it, a 39"x 40" 4228 antenna will work. A ChannelMaster 4220 and am amplifier with a 5th gen tuner should get all your UHF channels from Chicago, which is to say everything but WBBM-DT. I haven't tried the 4220 yet, but others like it (has a great design in theory), and it is 20"x17" if you can hide it somewhere:

http://www.warrenelectronics.com/antennas/4220.htm

WBBM is VHF-only and at low power, and at that distance, it is unlikely you'll get it
unless you have a VHF-LO (channels 2-6) antenna and if you are fortunate.

I figured I would probably have problems since I do not have access to an attic area.

As far as what generation tuner I have...how do I tell? My television has a built in tuner and I have had the television for 1.5 years.

Get a TV with ATSC tuner and an indoor antenna, even something basic. Try it and if it doesn't work out just return the stuff.

I figured I would probably have problems since I do not have access to an attic area.

As far as what generation tuner I have...how do I tell? My television has a built in tuner and I have had the television for 1.5 years.

If you have a Samsung/LG, either 4th or 5th. Everything else, 4th gen.

The best thing to do is try it out...and see what you get, based on the antenna recommendations in my last post. You should get quite a few stations.

I'm in Alsip and have a similar situation. I have a Samsung tuner and was able to install an outdoor antenna, but shooting through trees. Using two stacked medium sized yagi/log-periodic antennas, I was able to get all the channels nearly flawlessly (including CBS), except for 32, 26 and 5 (31, 29, 27). And those came in fine about 65% of the time. Same results with an 8 bay bowtie. I don't know why it's centered around those channels, but that has been awfully consistent in my OTA experiments. I recently gave up and got Comcast. Good luck!

Hey jmdomini. I live a few miles west of you off Rt 34 (Ogden) Are you using an OTA Antenna and getting good reception from Chicago and surrounding areas? If so, may I ask what setup you have?

Thanks
RBH406

Hi, RBH406:

I'm near Rt 34 and Eola road at the the East edge of Aurora. My TV is strictly OTA
using an attic mounted antenna. I'm using the Antenna's Direct V4 MKII with a
Channel Master 7777 pre-amp. The V4 MKII (low VHF) is probably the most compact antenna with a reasonable chance at picking up our difficult 2.1 (on channel 3). I've actually also added a DB4 (4 bowtie UHF) and pointed it off-axis
to get 56.1/.2 from Gary, IN. Actually, for me the V4 MKII with the 7777 does a marvelous job receiving all the Chicago stations. 2.1 still is only there about 95% of the time in the evenings. I'm sure there are some better overall antennas, but
for the size, the V4 MKII is incredible.

Dan (Woj...)

Hey Gilbert,

Did you survive the storm out there? Heard you guys got about 4 inches of rain out there in Dekalb from the storms.

Hey Gilbert,

Did you survive the storm out there? Heard you guys got about 4 inches of rain out there in Dekalb from the storms.

I got over 4" at my house, no damage. But we had 5 inches plus on the northeast through the south side of the city. People being plucked from the water, cars floating 300' from my office...and we're about to get hit again!

the wind and the high pressure (i guess) and the leaves on my tree are all combining to yield a really bad ota evening. good thing i am only missing summer tv.

the wind and the high pressure (i guess) and the leaves on my tree are all combining to yield a really bad ota evening. good thing i am only missing summer tv.

And Milwaukee. :D Their stations are booming in like crazy tonight. You may be getting interference from them, or another market. Tune, if you can, to channel
30-1 or 46-1 or 22-1 and see what you get. 33-1 may be crunched by WFLD-TV, but also try 35-1. That's pure 1080i PBS.

Help!

I just placed the radio shack VU90X in my attic here in Gilberts (the same set up my neighbor has) and I can't get 26 and of course 2 on my hd receiver. My neighbor gets them both at around 80%.
I had a radio shack indoor antenna and I at least got 26.

Can anyone help me with this?

Would a Channel Master pre-amp help?

Thanks

Help!

I just placed the radio shack VU90X in my attic here in Gilberts (the same set up my neighbor has) and I can't get 26 and of course 2 on my hd receiver. My neighbor gets them both at around 80%.
I had a radio shack indoor antenna and I at least got 26.

Can anyone help me with this?

Would a Channel Master pre-amp help?

Thanks

Hi Steve,

Two questions...

1. Does your tuner have signal levels on them? What do they say? If it's close to a locking level, a ChannelMaster Preamp would probably do the trick. But first...

2. Try tweaking the antenna. Make doggone sure it is pointed at Sears Tower. While up in the attic, try getting WBBM-DT. If no one can help you in your house or townhome, crank the volume on the TV, head for the attic and see if you can get WBBM-DT by changing the direction on the antenna, or if possible, maybe moving it closer to an outside wall.

I will say it again though...at that distance, that antenna is pushing the design limit of what it can do, Radio Shack claims be hanged (and I wish their claims would be, they're totally bogus). A VU-190 from Radio Shack is much more effective, especially on WBBM-DT.

Hi Steve,

Two questions...

1. Does your tuner have signal levels on them? What do they say? If it's close to a locking level, a ChannelMaster Preamp would probably do the trick. But first...

2. Try tweaking the antenna. Make doggone sure it is pointed at Sears Tower. While up in the attic, try getting WBBM-DT. If no one can help you in your house or townhome, crank the volume on the TV, head for the attic and see if you can get WBBM-DT by changing the direction on the antenna, or if possible, maybe moving it closer to an outside wall.

I will say it again though...at that distance, that antenna is pushing the design limit of what it can do, Radio Shack claims be hanged (and I wish their claims would be, they're totally bogus). A VU-190 from Radio Shack is much more effective, especially on WBBM-DT.

Thanks Gilbert!

I'm using the Samsung HD tuner and it does show signal strength. Right now WMAQ 5.1 is around 30-40% and channel 7 is around 10-20%.

I think I may just opt for the VU190 and be done with it. Hopefully it will fit in my attic. :)

I'll let you know the outcome and thanks again.

Steve ota

Anyone notice 9.1 WGN has this weird winning noise while broadcasting rerun sitcoms? I think it's anything that's not in 5.1 cause the cubs games don't have this sound. I know when I watch Friends, even at my friend's place (via Comcast) I can still hear the sound.

Sorry if this topic has been talked about, I tried to do a search.

Does anyone know of a company that will install antennas in attics?

Anyone notice 9.1 WGN has this weird winning noise while broadcasting rerun sitcoms? I think it's anything that's not in 5.1 cause the cubs games don't have this sound. I know when I watch Friends, even at my friend's place (via Comcast) I can still hear the sound.

Sorry if this topic has been talked about, I tried to do a search.

i have noticed it

for the second day in a row, the late afternoon/early evening has been nearly unwatchable for me. it calms down around 2030 or 2100, but i assume that stations in madison and milwaukee are crowding in. it is fascinating but frustrating. the tuner in my tv still locks in pretty well, but the two in my htpc i guess don't filter out the interference as well.

would an attenuator help with this? if so, would it put it closer to the antenna or the tuner?

thanks.

for the second day in a row, the late afternoon/early evening has been nearly unwatchable for me. it calms down around 2030 or 2100, but i assume that stations in madison and milwaukee are crowding in. it is fascinating but frustrating. the tuner in my tv still locks in pretty well, but the two in my htpc i guess don't filter out the interference as well.

would an attenuator help with this? if so, would it put it closer to the antenna or the tuner?

thanks.

Hi JCR,

I know what the problem is. You're all wet! Well, your signal is. :D

OK, seriously, here's what is likely going on: if you are on the near west side,
only the most egregious, and I mean egregious tropo ducting or E-skip will mess with your signal. I mean, on those days, I'm picking up Pennsylvania stations on tropo. Done it once, but even then, those close in aren't affected.

Rain changes the reflectance properties of buildings and trees. I am *guessing* that the TV that is holding it's own is a 5th generation tuner; the others, 4th or earlier, and cannot handle multipath well.

Yep, wet buildings and trees reflect signals better. So more than likely, what you are seeing is not an overly strong signal (if it was, closer than 40 miles in, it would have been bad for you in February), but rather, more multipath. Only a tweaking of the antenna and/or a better tuner can help that.

Does anyone know of a company that will install antennas in attics?

Antenna installers aren't cheap, they're typically $400 minimum for a job, and for a bigger antenna system that you will need for a fringe area antenna, (if you're in an attic 40 miles out, you're fringe!) throw in $100 more. If you have the VU-90 up there, can you replace it with the VU-190 yourself?

Antenna installers aren't cheap, they're typically $400 minimum for a job, and for a bigger antenna system that you will need for a fringe area antenna, (if you're in an attic 40 miles out, you're fringe!) throw in $100 more. If you have the VU-90 up there, can you replace it with the VU-190 yourself?

For that kind of money I believe I can get my big a** up there. :D

Thanks...

Steve

Hi JCR,

I know what the problem is. You're all wet! Well, your signal is. :D

OK, seriously, here's what is likely going on: if you are on the near west side,
only the most egregious, and I mean egregious tropo ducting or E-skip will mess with your signal. I mean, on those days, I'm picking up Pennsylvania stations on tropo. Done it once, but even then, those close in aren't affected.

Rain changes the reflectance properties of buildings and trees. I am *guessing* that the TV that is holding it's own is a 5th generation tuner; the others, 4th or earlier, and cannot handle multipath well.

Yep, wet buildings and trees reflect signals better. So more than likely, what you are seeing is not an overly strong signal (if it was, closer than 40 miles in, it would have been bad for you in February), but rather, more multipath. Only a tweaking of the antenna and/or a better tuner can help that.

i know this isn't a hardware forum, but i am using two fusion hdtv 5 in my htpc that i believe that gen5 tuners in them. i am not sure what gen is in my tv, but it certainly has always been the best. there are n000 things that could be going on inside the computer that should not be discussed here. it is just weird that it all comes back just fine for the htpc after the sun has been set for a bit, while the tv never quite goes out.

EDIT-never underestimate the power of good cables securely connected and properly separated.

I am looking for the best antenna that i can mount in the attic that will allow me to get channel 2.1 from my location in WORTH. I have a 24"x 32" opening into the attic but it is fairly tall.can you please list the top three antennas that i might be able to use below is the information from antenna web.I have done a lot of searching on here for wich is best but i am now more unsure then when i first started. thank you for your time. john

DTV Antenna
Type Call Sign Channel Network City State Live
Date Compass
Orientation Miles
From Frequency
Assignment
* yellow - uhf WYCC-DT 20.1 PBS CHICAGO IL 34° 17.4 21
* yellow - uhf WTTW-DT 11.1 PBS CHICAGO IL 35° 15.8 47
* yellow - uhf WPWR-DT 50.1 MNT GARY IN 35° 15.8 51
* yellow - uhf WLS-DT 7.1 ABC CHICAGO IL 35° 15.8 52
* yellow - uhf WFLD-DT 32.1 FOX CHICAGO IL 35° 15.8 31
* yellow - uhf WCIU-DT 26.1 IND CHICAGO IL 35° 15.8 27
* yellow - uhf WCPX-DT 38.1 ION CHICAGO IL 35° 15.9 43
* yellow - uhf WMAQ-DT 5.1 NBC CHICAGO IL 35° 15.8 29
* yellow - uhf WJYS-DT 62.1 REL HAMMOND IN 35° 15.8 36
* yellow - uhf WGBO-DT 66.1 UNI JOLIET IL 34° 17.4 53
* yellow - uhf WGN-DT 9.1 CW CHICAGO IL 35° 15.8 19
* yellow - uhf WXFT-DT 60.1 TFA AURORA IL 35° 15.9 59
* yellow - uhf WSNS-DT 44.1 TEL CHICAGO IL 35° 15.8 45
* green - vhf WBBM-DT 2.1 CBS CHICAGO IL 34° 17.4 3
* red - uhf WYIN-DT 56.1 PBS GARY IN 141° 31.1 17

I am looking for the best antenna that i can mount in the attic that will allow me to get channel 2.1 from my location in WORTH. I have a 24"x 32" opening into the attic but it is fairly tall.can you please list the top three antennas that i might be able to use below is the information from antenna web.I have done a lot of searching on here for wich is best but i am now more unsure then when i first started. thank you for your time. john

DTV Antenna
Type Call Sign Channel Network City State Live
Date Compass
Orientation Miles
From Frequency
Assignment
* yellow - uhf WYCC-DT 20.1 PBS CHICAGO IL 34° 17.4 21
* yellow - uhf WTTW-DT 11.1 PBS CHICAGO IL 35° 15.8 47
* yellow - uhf WPWR-DT 50.1 MNT GARY IN 35° 15.8 51
* yellow - uhf WLS-DT 7.1 ABC CHICAGO IL 35° 15.8 52
* yellow - uhf WFLD-DT 32.1 FOX CHICAGO IL 35° 15.8 31
* yellow - uhf WCIU-DT 26.1 IND CHICAGO IL 35° 15.8 27
* yellow - uhf WCPX-DT 38.1 ION CHICAGO IL 35° 15.9 43
* yellow - uhf WMAQ-DT 5.1 NBC CHICAGO IL 35° 15.8 29
* yellow - uhf WJYS-DT 62.1 REL HAMMOND IN 35° 15.8 36
* yellow - uhf WGBO-DT 66.1 UNI JOLIET IL 34° 17.4 53
* yellow - uhf WGN-DT 9.1 CW CHICAGO IL 35° 15.8 19
* yellow - uhf WXFT-DT 60.1 TFA AURORA IL 35° 15.9 59
* yellow - uhf WSNS-DT 44.1 TEL CHICAGO IL 35° 15.8 45
* green - vhf WBBM-DT 2.1 CBS CHICAGO IL 34° 17.4 3
* red - uhf WYIN-DT 56.1 PBS GARY IN 141° 31.1 17

Hi Nascarnut,

Welcome to the forum! You may be surprised at what I recommend.
In order, I recommend:

1. VU-190 from Radio Shack
2. Winegard HD 7084P Platinum from Tri-State Electonic
(https://www.tselectronic.com/winegard/hd7084.html)
3. VU-90 from Radio Shack

The reason for the large antenna? So you can get a solid lock on WBBM, and get the low power station(s) that will sign on pretty soon. That should work!

thank you,will i need a amplifier with this setup and if so which one do you suggest.thanks again

I have a old antenna on the roof of my house. It worked fine with my old analog TV. Could please anyone tell me that antenna will work with a HDTV or not? Do I need to replace it or do any other things to make it work with a HDTV?

thank you,will i need a amplifier with this setup and if so which one do you suggest.thanks again

No, not at 15 miles with those antennas. You should be good to go!

I have a old antenna on the roof of my house. It worked fine with my old analog TV. Could please anyone tell me that antenna will work with a HDTV or not? Do I need to replace it or do any other things to make it work with a HDTV?

If you got very good to excellent reception on your analog set, chances are very good you'll have solid signals with your HDTV. Just make sure your HDTV is just that...an HDTV, that is, with a "digital tuner".

Okay... Here's my update, any help would be appreciated.

I replaced my RS VU90 with the VU190 on wednesday and I was able to get a WBBM signal around 10 to 20%. Today it went away all together so I bought the rs 15-2507 signal amplifier. Current signal strengths:

5.1 - 90 to 100%
7.1 - 90 to 100%
9.1 - 70 to 90%
11.1 - 100%
26.1 - 70 to 90%
32.1 - 70 to 80%
38.1 - 90 to 100%
44.1 - 80%
50.1 - 80 to 100%
60.1 - 80%
62.1 - 40 to 50%
66.1 - 60%
And of course absolutely no signal for 2.1 WBBM

Why did all my other signals increase with the booster except 2.1?

I'm on a mission now!

Okay... Here's my update, any help would be appreciated.

I replaced my RS VU90 with the VU190 on wednesday and I was able to get a WBBM signal around 10 to 20%. Today it went away all together so I bought the rs 15-2507 signal amplifier. Current signal strengths:

5.1 - 90 to 100%
7.1 - 90 to 100%
9.1 - 70 to 90%
11.1 - 100%
26.1 - 70 to 90%
32.1 - 70 to 80%
38.1 - 90 to 100%
44.1 - 80%
50.1 - 80 to 100%
60.1 - 80%
62.1 - 40 to 50%
66.1 - 60%
And of course absolutely no signal for 2.1 WBBM

Why did all my other signals increase with the booster except 2.1?

I'm on a mission now!

Steve,

I wrote a huge list of what could be the problem. Only getting 20 hours of sleep this week due to working severe weather (I'm a meteorologist at NIU out in DeKalb) has made my brain turn to mush. But one brain cell finally woke up long enough to make me realize exactly what the problem is.

You live in Gilberts! You live at the home to WHYY-FM (103.9). Oh sure, it says they're in Dundee, but that's the town they serve. The actual 3,000 watt blowtorch that's killing you is the ~300' tower that's right behind the baseball diamond just north of 72 and on the west side of the railroad tracks. Those two devil's pitchfork thingy's sticking out of the west side near the top of the tower is their antenna. FM stations less than 5 miles away can and usually do interfere like crazy with channels 2-6. Your amp does have a variable FM attenuator. You need to make sure it is set so that it filters out FM signals. It quite possibly may be letting FM signals in fully. If it is, not only are you getting nuked by 103.9, but the amp is making things even worse!

Now, if you have the attenuation on at maximum, then you need a second FM trap, like one person in Gilberts needed that I helped a year or two ago.
They used to sell them at Radio Shack for $5; alas, they no longer do. They have them at Tri State Electronic up near Arlington Heights (http://www.tselectronic.com), or you can grab one online from them:

https://www.tselectronic.com/winegard/ft7500.html

I bet if you had an analog TV, channel 2 would just be loaded with interference. Make sure the trap is "in", or perhaps the knob or screw turned all the way to the right on your current amplifier, before you try this. See if that helps, then report back.

Just out of curiosity, try punching in these channels if you can do so manually (on most TV's, you have to scan for a channel or it won't let you tune it):

41-1
42-1
16-1
54-1

These are all Rockford stations. Let me know what you get, and we'll take it from there. BTW, that Radio Shack amp isn't very good. A better one at slightly more cost can be had at http://www.warrenelectronics.com/antennas/7777.htm .
I order through them, and this amp is considered one of the best consumer-grade ones out there. I know, I own one and have installed several.

We're getting closer to having our first low-power digital TV station from Chicago hitting the airwaves. WWME-LD is scheduled to have the transmitter VERY tentatively installed August13 (but that can easily be delayed, and has been delayed already), but there is no date when the transmission line and broadcast antenna is due to be installed. That said, it looks like they'll have it on by the end of the year.

What I wish they would do is what they did for their analog channel. When WWME-CA (the low power analog channel 23) first signed on, they had a contest to see who could pick it up the furthest, and I think someone got $$$ for a prize.

Would they consider doing this again? Please? Even if it's a $10 gift card to Joe's Hot Dog Stand somewhere? :)

We're getting closer to having our first low-power digital TV station from Chicago hitting the airwaves. WWME-LD is scheduled to have the transmitter VERY tentatively installed August 6 (but that can easily be delayed), but there is no date when the transmission line and broadcast antenna is due to be installed. That said, it looks like they'll have it on by the end of the year.
Does this mean that they will move off of channel 26-2?

Does this mean that they will move off of channel 26-2?

I updated my post above to note that it has now been pushed back 1 week (told ya it would probably be delayed). HVS has stated that 26-2 stays for now, so you're good to go. However, if they do HD, the only place to see it in HD would be 23-1 once it hits the air.

Are they going to be HD?

If they will be 720p or 1080i, even though they won't have anything in actual HD, it should still look real good.

Those high school basketball games should actually become watchable, then.

(At least all the Trekkie geeks will be ecstatic if they show ST in HD ;).)

Are they going to be HD?

If they will be 720p or 1080i, even though they won't have anything in actual HD, it should still look real good.

Those high school basketball games should actually become watchable, then.

(At least all the Trekkie geeks will be ecstatic if they show ST in HD ;).)
Not HD anytime soon.

.

What I wish they would do is what they did for their analog channel. When WWME-CA (the low power analog channel 23) first signed on, they had a contest to see who could pick it up the furthest, and I think someone got $$$ for a prize.

Would they consider doing this again? Please? Even if it's a $10 gift card to Joe's Hot Dog Stand somewhere? :)
How about an autographed picture?? :eek:

How about an autographed picture?? :eek:

Sure! Pamela Anderson pictures are worth a fortune on Ebay. :D

Has anyone had any trouble with WGN over the past two days? I have been watching the Cubs games, and the signal has been about 90% then all of a sudden drops to 0% (losing picture/sound, and I get an error saying weak or no signal), then jumps back to 90%. And it is doing approximately every 10 seconds. What could be causing this? Ever since the storms earlier this week, I have had this problem with WGN. My antenna is indoor, so I don't think that is the problem...

Has anyone had any trouble with WGN over the past two days? I have been watching the Cubs games, and the signal has been about 90% then all of a sudden drops to 0% (losing picture/sound, and I get an error saying weak or no signal), then jumps back to 90%. And it is doing approximately every 10 seconds. What could be causing this? Ever since the storms earlier this week, I have had this problem with WGN. My antenna is indoor, so I don't think that is the problem...

Frog,

You have a ribbiting problem! Hey, with material like that, I better not quit my day job... :D

Do you have an analog TV hooked up to your antenna? I forgot if you do or not. If you can, try channel 20. If it's got "ghosts", you've got a multipath problem (got a tree or a branch in the way now, or is there one on the roof?). If you see "pops" of interference, it could be from a power line damaged in the recent storm,
or another electrical device that was trashed causing spurious interference. Also, a wet roof changes the physical properties of it, and a damp roof can indeed produce significant multipath.

This is one of the channels, along with "V-Me", that was supposed to have launched last August. This channel contains documentaries, news, and other supposed non-fiction programming from PBS.

http://hd.broadcastnewsroom.com/articles/viewarticle.jsp?id=160813

Oh, it's not in HD. And Chicago isn't initially on the list of stations to get it. But I bet WYIN-DT might carry it. Because several shows on this new channel are also shown on WTTW, they won't let WYCC-DT carry it. And WTTW is out of room to carry more channels, unless they drop their HD feed. So I bet WYIN-DT would
become the only local outlet for it, if they decide to pick it up.

... Because several shows on this new channel are also shown on WTTW, they won't let WYCC-DT carry it....
Can you explain why WTTW has this power or control?

In regard to WTTW, I recently send Dan Schmidt a letter about their programming priorities for 11-1. They showed the first three (of six) operas shot in High Definition from the Metropolitan Opera on 11-1, but NOT the final three. Of course I realize that this is a minority interest but there are a LOT of repeats on 11-1.

When I checked the upcoming schedule I found: " HairWorld: The Pursuit of Excellence / Wednesday, August 1, 7:00pm / CHANNEL 11.1 (WTTW-DT) / Highlights of the 2006 International HairWorld Championships for hairstylists, in Moscow."

There's no room in the 11-1 schedule for the Metropolitan Opera, but there's room for hairstyling contests?

.................

There's no room in the 11-1 schedule for the Metropolitan Opera, but there's room for hairstyling contests?

They are thinking of their viewers. The hairstyling contest requires less bandwidth than the opera and will give their gizzillion sub-channels more bits. :rolleyes:

Been reading all the posts on here, as i just got into the HD world, not 100% but i have an HD tuner on on non-HDTV via the TviX M-4100SH...well long story short, i can watch some HD channels though i know its not truly HD but ill take it, one step at a time.
I am having some trouble with my radioshack antenna it seems, its an indoor VHF/UHF/HD/FM antenna that i got, and i get all around good signals for all the channels (NOT CBS of course as i have read on here is the hardest to get). however from time to time, the signal drops out and as a result freezes my TViX, any suggestions to perhaps improve strength??
Drops usually happen when the train near my house goes by!

I am having some trouble with my radioshack antenna it seems, its an indoor VHF/UHF/HD/FM antenna that i got, and i get all around good signals for all the channels (NOT CBS of course as i have read on here is the hardest to get). however from time to time, the signal drops out and as a result freezes my TViX, any suggestions to perhaps improve strength??
Drops usually happen when the train near my house goes by!

Please supply your zip code and I'll look on antennaweb.org or you can check for yourself. This will give an idea of what you're up against.

Can you see the train from where you're at? If you can, your antenna may be getting an echo off the train. This causes multipath and degrades the signal. Something more directional may be needed, but that usually means bigger.

ZIp is 60639, and yes i can see the tracks and the train as it goes by.
I think you might be on to something with the echo off the train!

Antennaweb.org shows that you're about 7 miles from the transmitters, except for channel 56.1 in Gary.

* yellow - uhf WYCC-DT 20.1 PBS CHICAGO IL 104° 6.9 21
* yellow - uhf WTTW-DT 11.1 PBS CHICAGO IL 117° 6.7 47
* yellow - uhf WPWR-DT 50.1 MNT GARY IN 117° 6.7 51
* yellow - uhf WLS-DT 7.1 ABC CHICAGO IL 117° 6.7 52
* yellow - uhf WMAQ-DT 5.1 NBC CHICAGO IL 117° 6.7 29
* yellow - uhf WSNS-DT 44.1 TEL CHICAGO IL 117° 6.7 45
* yellow - uhf WGBO-DT 66.1 UNI JOLIET IL 104° 6.9 53
* yellow - uhf WGN-DT 9.1 CW CHICAGO IL 117° 6.7 19
* yellow - vhf WBBM-DT 2.1 CBS CHICAGO IL 104° 6.9 3
* yellow - uhf WFLD-DT 32.1 FOX CHICAGO IL 117° 6.7 31
* yellow - uhf WXFT-DT 60.1 TFA AURORA IL 117° 6.7 59
* yellow - uhf WCIU-DT 26.1 IND CHICAGO IL 117° 6.7 27
* yellow - uhf WCPX-DT 38.1 ION CHICAGO IL 117° 6.7 43
* red - uhf WJYS-DT 62.1 REL HAMMOND IN 117° 6.7 36
* violet - uhf WYIN-DT 56.1 PBS GARY IN 158° 43.4 17

Many people like the Philips Silver Sensor at that range. It's UHF only so forget about channel 2.1. It's fairly directional so it should help reduce the multipath.

I've tried a Winegard Sharpshooter and it almost works out here in Lombard. It's good at dealing with multipath but it runs about $90 with shipping and it looks something like a weather radar station.

lol at the Winegard, i have no doubt that something like that or the Channel Master 4228 with their area mounted on the roof will solve my signal problems...what does yellow mean in those listings, and thanks for the help.

Can you explain why WTTW has this power or control?

There's no room in the 11-1 schedule for the Metropolitan Opera, but there's room for hairstyling contests?

Answer #1: $$$$. They get most of the money from donations from PBS in this 3-PBS station market.

Answer #2: That I do not know. They might be waiting for the fall season. I've seen stuff in SD on 11-2 that appears in HD months later on 11-1. Since that is mostly a PBS-HD feed, I don't know why they didn't carry the last 3. Unless WTTW pre-empted them. I couldn't tell you if they did, or why.

lol at the Winegard, i have no doubt that something like that or the Channel Master 4228 with their area mounted on the roof will solve my signal problems...what does yellow mean in those listings, and thanks for the help.

Spiaget,

The good Baker is right about trains causing multipath. I know of someone who lived next to the Metra tracks near Glen Ellyn, I believe...same problem. That's the worst kind of multipath because it is highly variable at any given moment.

The yellow refers to the type of antenna you'll need to get the station(s) clearly.
That size is a small suburban-type antenna. But it assumes you don't live near tracks. If you have an antenna that gets everything except when trains roll by, the only thing you can do is try to go bigger (more directional) and higher.

lol at the Winegard, i have no doubt that something like that or the Channel Master 4228 with their area mounted on the roof will solve my signal problems...what does yellow mean in those listings, and thanks for the help.
The Sharpshooter (not Square Shooter) is an indoor antenna, but I'd try to put it out of sight because it's odd-looking. It's very good with multipath problems, though. It was designed with city apartments in mind.

Answer #1: $$$$. They get most of the money from donations from PBS in this 3-PBS station market.
This implies that stations bid for PBS material and only one station can carry a program. Is that really the case?

A few years ago WTTW quit carrying "Charlie Rose". I then found that WYCC was showing that program. And WYCC started getting my donations, with less to WTTW. And now WTTW is showing "Charlie Rose" again... BTW, I believe that C.R. is self funded, and stations don't have to pay to carry it.

BTW, today's Tribune is plugging the HairWorld show as one of two "Shows of Note Today." (NTSC)

Answer #2: That I do not know. They might be waiting for the fall season. I've seen stuff in SD on 11-2 that appears in HD months later on 11-1. Since that is mostly a PBS-HD feed, I don't know why they didn't carry the last 3. Unless WTTW pre-empted them. I couldn't tell you if they did, or why.
I wont give up hope then...

Thanks for the help guys, i think im stuck, unless i move, cant really mount anything on the wall, so ill just look to perhaps bolster the signal to reduce the possibility of dropouts....or something!
appreciate it

This implies that stations bid for PBS material and only one station can carry a program. Is that really the case?

A few years ago WTTW quit carrying "Charlie Rose". I then found that WYCC was showing that program. And WYCC started getting my donations, with less to WTTW. And now WTTW is showing "Charlie Rose" again... BTW, I believe that C.R. is self funded, and stations don't have to pay to carry it.

BTW, today's Tribune is plugging the HairWorld show as one of two "Shows of Note Today." (NTSC)


I wont give up hope then...

It doesn't mean that the same show can air on PBS stations, but WTTW
makes sure that doesn't happen often. And don't give up hope on the Met yet!

Thanks for the help guys, i think im stuck, unless i move, cant really mount anything on the wall, so ill just look to perhaps bolster the signal to reduce the possibility of dropouts....or something!
appreciate it
Some people (like me, once) think an antenna amplifier will help here. Just in case you're thinking of it (like I did), don't. It's not going to help and it costs you $$.

I wish WGN and WCIU could stop carrying road games of the Cubs & Sox. The PQ is usually terrible. It would be an improvement to give them all to Comcast SportsNet HD which usually is able to obtain a widescreen feed. While not HD, the quality is good and a big improvement over WGN & WCIU.

Hey everyone. I only visit when I need help so my questions may seem basic...

Well last night I lost all my OTA reception. Never had this happen in the 2 or 3 months since I installed the antenna in the attic. It was out for about an hour or so. Does this happen occasionally? If so, why? Or may there be something wrong with mine in particular? Thanks.

Some people (like me, once) think an antenna amplifier will help here. Just in case you're thinking of it (like I did), don't. It's not going to help and it costs you $$.

Will keep that in mind, thanks for the savings; im considering other options

Cheers

I wish WGN and WCIU could stop carrying road games of the Cubs & Sox. The PQ is usually terrible. It would be an improvement to give them all to Comcast SportsNet HD which usually is able to obtain a widescreen feed. While not HD, the quality is good and a big improvement over WGN & WCIU.
If its widescreen, it's HD. Away games are analog fed fiber. YUCK!!

I wish WGN and WCIU could stop carrying road games of the Cubs & Sox. The PQ is usually terrible. It would be an improvement to give them all to Comcast SportsNet HD which usually is able to obtain a widescreen feed. While not HD, the quality is good and a big improvement over WGN & WCIU.


I'd be OK with that, if Comcast Sportsnet would provide the signal back to WGN & WCIU for HD OTA transmission.

I'm sure that I'm one of the last OTA hold outs, but it seems wrong to advocate that programming be moved to cable in an OTA thread! ;)

Please forgive me if this has been posted here often, but can someone tell me which Chicago locals do their news casts in HD? Thanks!

Only WLS does the news in HD.

Hey everyone. I only visit when I need help so my questions may seem basic...

Well last night I lost all my OTA reception. Never had this happen in the 2 or 3 months since I installed the antenna in the attic. It was out for about an hour or so. Does this happen occasionally? If so, why? Or may there be something wrong with mine in particular? Thanks.

Due to the temperature inversion, you may have lost the channel because of interference. Or, maybe someone nearby fired up an appliance that spewed a lot of nasty RF across the dial?

Hard to say. It does happen with other stations interfering in the spring-fall, to be sure. That would be a first *guess*.

On channels 2-5. Let me tell you what I am seeing here...

Analog channel 4, clear and in color, coming in from CBC Montreal, Canada at 4:15 PM. Then it fades out, and then Canada's French-Speaking TVA network from Ottawa, CN (call letters CFTM) comes in at 4:18 PM. Then, a positive hit from WRC-TV 4 in Washington, DC at 4:20 PM. Channel 2 is a mangled mess of numerous stations trying to come in, as are channels 3 and 5, stomping on WBBM-DT....but they're so garbled right now that I can't make anything out on those channels.

But I've always wanted to do E-skip on FM. I've tried, but only gotten one
minor E-skip hit last summer. But I got what I think is the French service of CBC Radio at 88.5 (ish) FM on an analog tuner. My first true E-skip on FM after years of
trying!

I am also getting some digital hash on channel 4, but not enough signal for
my digital tuner to decode.

Yup, WBBM-TV has been a mangled mess all afternoon here too. WMAQ-TV comes and goes. However WBBM-DT has been coming in flawlessly for me....go figure!

HDTV's are getting affordable for most folks in the U.S. With the burgeoning Hispanic audience in Chicago now (look at the Arbitron radio ratings for Chicago, and you'll see WLEY (107.9), WOJO (105.1) in the top 10 (5, actually, especially WOJO), and others such as Pasion 106.7 (which did very well in the first few books and is doing very well for a suburban stick) and of course 93.5 and smaller ones), Hispanic broadcasters have a captive audience.

So why haven't Chicago's "Spanish" TV stations captured their audience, and gone HD? I thought...well, no offense to Mexico, but they aren't exactly swimming in money there, and I thought it would be a while before significant HD was seen coming from them. Boy, was I wrong!

Here was a reality check for me. This is an EXCELLENT thread so far about Mexican HDTV (over the air and otherwise). And get this: several over-the-air networks broadcast HD or widescreen nearly 24 hours a day, or most of their broadcast day! Oh, yes, they too are undergoing a *20 year* DTV transition, also using the ATSC format that the U.S. uses. See what TV they're getting in San Diego, El Paso, etc and then in Mexico. Little WOCK-13 on Sears tower, when they go digital on 12 (until, hopefully, WBBM kicks them to a different and decent channel), could shock everyone and go HD with Azteca America right out of the gate. And I more than bet there are programs on 44, 60 and 66 that are imported and broadcast in HD.

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=878152

Thoughts?

But I got what I think is the French service of CBC Radio at 88.5 (ish) FM on an analog tuner. My first true E-skip on FM after years of
trying!

sebenste: did you match up the frequency to a known CBC station? I hate to burst your bubble but I'm thinking you may have picked up the FM transmission from a nearby satellite radio. The very low frequency is a favorite for those satellite radio FM transmitters that broadcast to car stereos and I know both Sirius and XM both have French language channels.

sebenste: did you match up the frequency to a known CBC station? I hate to burst your bubble but I'm thinking you may have picked up the FM transmission from a nearby satellite radio. The very low frequency is a favorite for those satellite radio FM transmitters that broadcast to car stereos and I know both Sirius and XM both have French language channels.

Hi Bob,

Where I live, it's tough to find those with Sirius/XM receivers, and I don't know anyone who speaks French in my neighborhood. But, to answer your question, yes, Radio One at 88.5 out of Montreal, French-speaking. Given that the Montreal TV station (CBC) came in on Ch.4, I'm surmising it is that one.

I've picked up stations from Texas[a religious music station from DALLAS called Joy FM] and Florida on 88.1 FM[they interfere with listening to XM on that frequency]......during the day no less.

Steve,

I wrote a huge list of what could be the problem. Only getting 20 hours of sleep this week due to working severe weather (I'm a meteorologist at NIU out in DeKalb) has made my brain turn to mush. But one brain cell finally woke up long enough to make me realize exactly what the problem is.

You live in Gilberts! You live at the home to WHYY-FM (103.9). Oh sure, it says they're in Dundee, but that's the town they serve. The actual 3,000 watt blowtorch that's killing you is the ~300' tower that's right behind the baseball diamond just north of 72 and on the west side of the railroad tracks. Those two devil's pitchfork thingy's sticking out of the west side near the top of the tower is their antenna. FM stations less than 5 miles away can and usually do interfere like crazy with channels 2-6. Your amp does have a variable FM attenuator. You need to make sure it is set so that it filters out FM signals. It quite possibly may be letting FM signals in fully. If it is, not only are you getting nuked by 103.9, but the amp is making things even worse!

Now, if you have the attenuation on at maximum, then you need a second FM trap, like one person in Gilberts needed that I helped a year or two ago.
They used to sell them at Radio Shack for $5; alas, they no longer do. They have them at Tri State Electronic up near Arlington Heights (http://www.tselectronic.com), or you can grab one online from them:

https://www.tselectronic.com/winegard/ft7500.html

I bet if you had an analog TV, channel 2 would just be loaded with interference. Make sure the trap is "in", or perhaps the knob or screw turned all the way to the right on your current amplifier, before you try this. See if that helps, then report back.

Just out of curiosity, try punching in these channels if you can do so manually (on most TV's, you have to scan for a channel or it won't let you tune it):

41-1
42-1
16-1
54-1

These are all Rockford stations. Let me know what you get, and we'll take it from there. BTW, that Radio Shack amp isn't very good. A better one at slightly more cost can be had at http://www.warrenelectronics.com/antennas/7777.htm .
I order through them, and this amp is considered one of the best consumer-grade ones out there. I know, I own one and have installed several.

Gilbert,

I took your advice and switched out the RS AMP with the CM 7777 and also added the WG FM trap. Last night I was pleasantly surprised that all the signals that were hovering around 80% were now 100% and also WBBM was coming in around 30-40% (very watchable) :) .

Tonight though I still show 100% for most of my channels but of course ch 2 is wavering from 0 to 10% (no lockable signal). Does the time of day, weather, the flight of birds, etc make a difference in receiving the signal? I felt a sense of accomplishment but now am frustrated again :mad: .

Cheers!

I've read all 23 pages of this thread and I've learned a lot. However, I stilll have a few questions. Here's my situation: New homeowner of a single-family home in Rogers Park, a far-north side neighborhood in Chicago on the lake (just south of Evanston) (zip code 60645), and looking to get HD OTA (no cable or dish).

I've read several posts here that recommend people who live right downtown purchase a set of rabbit ears. But we live approx. 9.4 miles from the Sears/Hancock towers. Also, we're putting the as-yet-unpurchased HDTV in the basement, so rabbit ears probably won't work, and I'd also like not to have to tweak them constantly. I'm OK installing a rooftop antenna if I could run cable down to the basement, and maybe split a line off into the 1st floor. There is currently a 30-year old antenna on the roof with old twinlead wiring running out of it which has been cut about ten feet from the antenna, so I figure it won't be any more of an eyesore. As far as signals I want, I definitely need my CBS 2.1 HD, and I've read here how hard it can be to get for now. Also, antennaweb.org tells me that I'm only 75 miles from Milwaukee signals, and it would be fun to get those if I could, since I'm from Milwaukee.

Since I'm sort of close to the Hancock/Sears towers (9.4 miles), what antenna will work best for me? Can I get both Milwaukee and Chicago, or should I just focus on the Chicago signals? (I'm OK with a rooftop antenna but would prefer to not have an enormous one).

Another hardware question. I've learned here to use quad-shielded RG cable, but does it matter what HDTV tuner I get? I'm looking at Vizio HDTVs with both analog and HD tuners (we have a Lifetime Tivo Series2 subscription so I need analog as well as HD). Do all new Vizios have the same quality tuner?

Thanks!

Gilbert,

I took your advice and switched out the RS AMP with the CM 7777 and also added the WG FM trap. Last night I was pleasantly surprised that all the signals that were hovering around 80% were now 100% and also WBBM was coming in around 30-40% (very watchable) :) .

Tonight though I still show 100% for most of my channels but of course ch 2 is wavering from 0 to 10% (no lockable signal). Does the time of day, weather, the flight of birds, etc make a difference in receiving the signal? I felt a sense of accomplishment but now am frustrated again :mad: .

Cheers!

OK. Because you are so close to the 103.9 tower, I was going to wait and see if this would do it. Now, however, it's apprent that the signal is SO strong that it is leaking through the RG-6 cable. There is, at this point, only one more thing you can do: get bonded foil which will stop 95% of the signal from getting through. This cable has demonstrated to really clean up some nasty RF problems. It's expensive, but worth it: Belden 1694A RG-6 cable:

http://www.ramelectronics.net/html/audio_video_bulk.html

At .$69/foot, it isn't cheap. But I have seen credible testimonials of ghosty analog in high-signal areas downtown become clear with this cable (it rejected the signal leaking into the cable itself). This SHOULD get rid of 95% of the interference from WHYY coming through your cable. After that, nothing further will help that I can think of. But it will definitely help you.

You are definitely in one of the worst-case scenarios for reception, like I am (although my problem is distance, 60 miles out...a townhome with no roof antennas allowed, so all antennas are in the attic...and pretty low near a river valley. I can get all stations from Chicago solid except in major signal "skip" situations...except one station. Betcha can't guess what that station is. :D

I've read all 23 pages of this thread and I've learned a lot. However, I stilll have a few questions. Here's my situation: New homeowner of a single-family home in Rogers Park, a far-north side neighborhood in Chicago on the lake (just south of Evanston) (zip code 60645), and looking to get HD OTA (no cable or dish).

I've read several posts here that recommend people who live right downtown purchase a set of rabbit ears. But we live approx. 9.4 miles from the Sears/Hancock towers. Also, we're putting the as-yet-unpurchased HDTV in the basement, so rabbit ears probably won't work, and I'd also like not to have to tweak them constantly. I'm OK installing a rooftop antenna if I could run cable down to the basement, and maybe split a line off into the 1st floor. There is currently a 30-year old antenna on the roof with old twinlead wiring running out of it which has been cut about ten feet from the antenna, so I figure it won't be any more of an eyesore. As far as signals I want, I definitely need my CBS 2.1 HD, and I've read here how hard it can be to get for now. Also, antennaweb.org tells me that I'm only 75 miles from Milwaukee signals, and it would be fun to get those if I could, since I'm from Milwaukee.

Since I'm sort of close to the Hancock/Sears towers (9.4 miles), what antenna will work best for me? Can I get both Milwaukee and Chicago, or should I just focus on the Chicago signals? (I'm OK with a rooftop antenna but would prefer to not have an enormous one).

Another hardware question. I've learned here to use quad-shielded RG cable, but does it matter what HDTV tuner I get? I'm looking at Vizio HDTVs with both analog and HD tuners (we have a Lifetime Tivo Series2 subscription so I need analog as well as HD). Do all new Vizios have the same quality tuner?

Thanks!

Hello Snert,

The good news is that you just said the magic words: outdoor antenna. You are, however, 25 miles too far away to reliably get Milwaukee. So Chicago it is,
but what exactly do you want to get? If you want to get WYIN-DT in Crown Point, doable from your location, you'll need a large antenna. Otherwise, this one is what I recommend:

https://www.tselectronic.com/winegard/hd7082.html

This is two sizes larger than Antennaweb recommends, for three reasons:

1. You need to minimize multipath (seen on analog as "ghosts"), and this antenna is more directional. On digital, you'll see the picture break up
under substantial multipath conditions.

2. You need rods that large to get WBBM-DT reliably.

3. During bad weather, ice, snow, etc...the signals will hold. The FCC assumes
reception under clear skies with gentle breezes in their determination
of how far the signal will go. Throw in thunderstorms, snow, ice, wind and humidity, and that goes out the window.

I say head to Tri-State Electronic and grab it, and along with new RG-6, tripod, mast, clamps and connectors to the RG-6...you're good to go.

Thanks for the prompt reply. If I want to do a chimney mount, will the people at TriState be able to tell me what accessories I need to buy? (I assume a tripod is unnecessary for a chimney setup.)

If I know that I want to split the signal to different floors, what kind of splitter should I buy? Will it weaken the signal so that I need to amplify it somehow?

That is an excellent antenna. No problems with reception and excellent PQ. I have it running 2 TV's with just a regular splitter. One cable run is about 75' and the other around 50'.

Thanks for the prompt reply. If I want to do a chimney mount, will the people at TriState be able to tell me what accessories I need to buy? (I assume a tripod is unnecessary for a chimney setup.)

If I know that I want to split the signal to different floors, what kind of splitter should I buy? Will it weaken the signal so that I need to amplify it somehow?

Yes, they will tell you what strap and other things to buy. Ideally, you should use a tripod; in the long term, it may reduce the life of the chimney, depending on its construction quality.

A two-way 75 ohm splitter will do the trick. It will weaken the signal by 3 dB, or roughly 50%. But with the antenna's gain, you should be good. If not, worry about it later, but with that antenna, there's enough "pad" at your range to allow for a two-split.

A two-way 75 ohm splitter will do the trick.It might be wise to get a splitter with power pass on at least one side, in case he needs to add an amp later.

Hi all - I'm a newbie to the forum trying to get a grasp of what I'm up against. I want to choose a proper roof antenna that can get both Chicago and Milwaukee OTA HD. I live in a ranch house in Zion (zip 60099) and through reading the 23 pages (whew), there seems to be a favorite recommended antenna brand for the far suburbs - Winegard. But which one would be the best? Is the biggest the best choice? I am not sure what kind of rotor is the best and whether an amplifier is necessary or not. Any suggestions would be helpful in getting me started on this.

Thanks in advance.

Hi all - I'm a newbie to the forum trying to get a grasp of what I'm up against. I want to choose a proper roof antenna that can get both Chicago and Milwaukee OTA HD. I live in a ranch house in Zion (zip 60099) and through reading the 23 pages (whew), there seems to be a favorite recommended antenna brand for the far suburbs - Winegard. But which one would be the best? Is the biggest the best choice? I am not sure what kind of rotor is the best and whether an amplifier is necessary or not. Any suggestions would be helpful in getting me started on this.

Thanks in advance.

Hi Robert,

Welcome to the forum!

Bigger is definitely better where you live. You are on the fringe of Milwaukee, and closer to the outer edge of the Chicago market. The Winegard HD8200P or Prostar 7084 only will do. The Prostar lineup had one flaw: in winds above 60 MPH, the rods would tend to come out of their slots. I see Tri-State Electonics has discontinued carrying that line. I have a HD8200P up in Crystal Lake; with an amplifier, the signal meter nearly pegs on WBBM (granted, though, the antenna is 60' up). But it gets everything from Chicago, Milwaukee and Rockford from there.

I would recommend getting:

Winegard HD8200P antenna

ChannelMaster 9521A rotor: http://www.warrenelectronics.com/Antennas/ant_rotors.htm

RG-6 cable

ChannelMaster 7778 preamp:
http://www.warrenelectronics.com/antennas/7778.htm

That will get you what you want. WBBM-DT is alwaya a crapshoot at that distance, but you WILL get CBS out of Milwaukee with it.

OK. Because you are so close to the 103.9 tower, I was going to wait and see if this would do it. Now, however, it's apprent that the signal is SO strong that it is leaking through the RG-6 cable. There is, at this point, only one more thing you can do: get bonded foil which will stop 95% of the signal from getting through. This cable has demonstrated to really clean up some nasty RF problems. It's expensive, but worth it: Belden 1694A RG-6 cable:

http://www.ramelectronics.net/html/audio_video_bulk.html

At .$69/foot, it isn't cheap. But I have seen credible testimonials of ghosty analog in high-signal areas downtown become clear with this cable (it rejected the signal leaking into the cable itself). This SHOULD get rid of 95% of the interference from WHYY coming through your cable. After that, nothing further will help that I can think of. But it will definitely help you.

You are definitely in one of the worst-case scenarios for reception, like I am (although my problem is distance, 60 miles out...a townhome with no roof antennas allowed, so all antennas are in the attic...and pretty low near a river valley. I can get all stations from Chicago solid except in major signal "skip" situations...except one station. Betcha can't guess what that station is. :D

I have another question for you...

I still have the RS VU90 (have not yet returned it). Is there a way to incorporate both antennas? Would this help?

Steve

I have a HD8200P up in Crystal Lake; with an amplifier, the signal meter nearly pegs on WBBM (granted, though, the antenna is 60' up). But it gets everything from Chicago, Milwaukee and Rockford from there.
I had to re-read your post a couple times, I remember you lived in a townhouse and your antenna was in your attic, couldn't figure out how in blazes you could have gotten an 8200 into your attic. The third time thru I noticed it said Crystal Lake. :confused:

Was going to ask how big your attic was. :rolleyes:

Hi Robert,

Welcome to the forum!

Bigger is definitely better where you live. You are on the fringe of Milwaukee, and closer to the outer edge of the Chicago market. The Winegard HD8200P or Prostar 7084 only will do. The Prostar lineup had one flaw: in winds above 60 MPH, the rods would tend to come out of their slots. I see Tri-State Electonics has discontinued carrying that line. I have a HD8200P up in Crystal Lake; with an amplifier, the signal meter nearly pegs on WBBM (granted, though, the antenna is 60' up). But it gets everything from Chicago, Milwaukee and Rockford from there.

I would recommend getting:

Winegard HD8200P antenna

ChannelMaster 9521A rotor

RG-6 cable

ChannelMaster 7778 preamp

That will get you what you want. WBBM-DT is alwaya a crapshoot at that distance, but you WILL get CBS out of Milwaukee with it.

Thanks for the reply. I was thinking the HD8200P was the way to go and you just confirmed it. Your suggestion for the preamp suggests that I would be better off with one than not having one. I also think that's the way to go.

I have another question for you...

I still have the RS VU90 (have not yet returned it). Is there a way to incorporate both antennas? Would this help?

Steve
Sorry guys, been swamped...

Merging VHF-only and UHF-only is a good idea with the proper diplexers, but merging 2 antennas like that together is bad because there is all sorts of signal cancellation and other nasty stuff going on. Bottom line, take it back.

I had to re-read your post a couple times, I remember you lived in a townhouse and your antenna was in your attic, couldn't figure out how in blazes you could have gotten an 8200 into your attic. The third time thru I noticed it said Crystal Lake. :confused:

Was going to ask how big your attic was. :rolleyes:

The 8200p is actually located at a church in Crystal Lake. I did manage---barely---to get a VHF-only antenna about the size of the 8200p, minus the UHF elements, up into my attic. It is literally jammed up near the ceiling. Then, I have two 4228 antennas in my attic, one that's on a rotor. The second one is needed because the one on the rotor is in a dead spot for WLS-DT and WTTW-DT. I have largely fixed that issue by using very high quality RG-6 cable, but whenever warm fronts come through, or if a front is stationary nearby, or during major low-level temperature inversions, it goes to pot and I switch to the other one...which gets them fine. I also have an old VU-160 from a friend who replaced his with a ChannelMaster 4228, since all his DTV channels in his market are on UHF or VHF-HI. That kind of gets WWTO-DT in Ottawa. My tuner can't get it now; it comes in too weakly. But, it's a third generation tuner. A 6th gen should lock it with no problem.

I have a 5th antenna up there, an old Radio Shack VU-90, interestingly enough. I use that for FM reception. One of the UHF "fins" is broken off, but it used to be used for picking up WMVS-DT 8 (10.1-10.6) from Milwaukee. But I need something much bigger than that so I can see it more than once a week. So, it's duties got transferred to my FM radio. It's the one that picked up the station from Quebec last week.

With this setup in my one-story attic, low near a river valley...this summer I have frequently gotten the Quad Cities for the first time, thanks to replacing some cable; I get Madison frequently 90 miles out, Chicago and Rockford constantly (sans WBBM-DT, of course) and I also get Milwaukee and South Bend, IN(!) quite a bit. In a few weeks, Weigel broadcasting will fire up 3 low power, 15 kilowatt UHF signals from South Bend. When WCIU-DT was at 15 kilowatts, I could lock them out here. I want to see if I can "DX" their soon-to-be new South Bend signals out here.

And with Comcast at nearly $70 a month thanks to high city taxes for 63 analog channels...you decide if I am crazy spending $400 for a one-time fee for tuner and antennas to get 30 analog and 40 digital channels over-the-air 4 years ago. :D

Thanks for the reply. I was thinking the HD8200P was the way to go and you just confirmed it. Your suggestion for the preamp suggests that I would be better off with one than not having one. I also think that's the way to go.

It will get you a more consistent signal in bad weather. It may get you a decent shot at WBBM. And I would definitely get a rotor. Let us know how it turns out!

And at high power! In this long discourse by the FCC, they have GRANTED WBBM-DT's request and given a construction permit to go to high power on channel 12 in February, 2009.

http://hraunfoss.fcc.gov/edocs_public/attachmatch/FCC-07-138A1.pdf

Just head to the FCC web site http://www.fcc.gov/dtv/ and click on the first entry. There's some amazing channel requests that were granted here across the country!

So it's official: WBBM-DT will have an 80 mile omnidirectional broadcast coverage radius from Sears Tower in 2009, effectively making it one of the most powerful stations in the market! 13.8 kw goes a long way at 1600'+ up!

Wow!!!!!!!

---Edit: I also noted WREX-DT in Rockford has been granted high power on channel 13; they will also go out 70 or 80 miles; the northwest suburbs will get them well.

---Edit #2: The channel lineup at the beginning of this thread, and the "How To Get WBBM-DT" essay has been updated to reflect this cool development. My personal channel list at http://weather.niu.edu/dtvstations.xls has also been updated to reflect this.

---Edit #3: Attention WLS-DT: You have until August 15th to make a change. GO TO HIGHER POWER!!!!!!! Um, please? :D

---Edit #4: It has been pointed out to me that the final DTV list shows WLS and WBBM getting 3.2 kw. There is confusion in the document whether this is correct or not.
Upon more careful reading, it explicitly requests that the WBBM channel change be granted, but does not comment on the power. I will look into this. Even at 3.2 kw, the signal may cover the metro quite well. I will find out definitively ASAP.

Excellent news!

Any word on WOCH-LP yet?

Excellent news!

Any word on WOCH-LP yet?

Nope, but in February 2009, they will be displaced to another channel. Who knows where. Maybe channel 3? :D Well, channel 11 will now be open for an LP station too, for that matter...and so will channel 9!

Somehow my cable line got cut, and it will be over a week before Comcast can get a wiring crew out here. In the mean time, I'd like to get a simple indoor antenna to get us by.

I live near Wrigley Field in a townhouse. Because it's a short-term need, I don't want to spend a lot. I've been reading this thread, and poking around on radioshack.com. Would simple rabbit ears w/ a circular antenna do me fine, or do I need something different?

According to antennaweb:
* yellow - uhf WCIU-DT 26.1 IND CHICAGO IL 168° 5.5 27
* yellow - uhf WCPX-DT 38.1 ION CHICAGO IL 168° 5.5 43
* yellow - uhf WFLD-DT 32.1 FOX CHICAGO IL 168° 5.5 31
* yellow - uhf WYCC-DT 20.1 PBS CHICAGO IL 155° 4.4 21
* yellow - uhf WTTW-DT 11.1 PBS CHICAGO IL 168° 5.5 47
* yellow - uhf WPWR-DT 50.1 MNT GARY IN 168° 5.5 51
* yellow - uhf WLS-DT 7.1 ABC CHICAGO IL 168° 5.5 52
* yellow - uhf WGBO-DT 66.1 UNI JOLIET IL 155° 4.4 53
* yellow - uhf WGN-DT 9.1 CW CHICAGO IL 168° 5.5 19
* yellow - uhf WMAQ-DT 5.1 NBC CHICAGO IL 168° 5.5 29
* yellow - uhf WSNS-DT 44.1 TEL CHICAGO IL 168° 5.5 45
* yellow - uhf WXFT-DT 60.1 TFA AURORA IL 168° 5.5 59
* yellow - vhf WBBM-DT 2.1 CBS CHICAGO IL 155° 4.4 3

Would simple rabbit ears w/ a circular antenna do me fine....Yes, an unamplified, Radio Shack rabbit ears/loop model should do fine.

Yes, an unamplified, Radio Shack rabbit ears/loop model should do fine.

I can get everything I expected to...no CBS, but that was no surprise.

thanks for the advice

Well the transmitter and associated parts are now on site. Installation is set to begin on Monday. On-air date is not known yet but is likely before winter sets in.

"Alas, poor WWME, we knew it well :(."

hello, can someone recommend a good antenna for me i live about 60 miles south east from towers dont want to undershoot want best value available thanks for any help ps i am a total noob to this

^ Same here. Someone recommend a good antenna. I live in Naperville near Route 58 and Hwy. 88. Are there some good ones for $30 or so?

Noticed that WZZM-DT from Grand Rapids is coming in and out on Channel 39 tonight. I have a sneaking suspicion that this is going to wreak some havoc with the WWME signal once it turns on over there...

^ Same here. Someone recommend a good antenna. I live in Naperville near Route 58 and Hwy. 88. Are there some good ones for $30 or so?

Mvetos: At 60 miles out, like me, only a large antenna will do. A ChannelMaster 4228 will serve you well. You won't get WBBM at that distance, but then again, nobody can. The 4228 may get WBBM even after analog shutdown, at high power on channel 12.

DJ: $30...not really. Indoor or outdoor? Indoor, a VU-90 with an amplifier may work
from Radio Shack. Otherwise...the ones at Menard's for about $50 in an attic would work decently. This will work very well indoor or outdoor.

https://www.tselectronic.com/winegard/hd7082.html

Noticed that WZZM-DT from Grand Rapids is coming in and out on Channel 39 tonight. I have a sneaking suspicion that this is going to wreak some havoc with the WWME signal once it turns on over there...

South Bend, Grand Rapids, Milwaukee and Madison are all blasting into my 3rd generation receiver tonight. Very cool...

Mvetos: At 60 miles out, like me, only a large antenna will do. A ChannelMaster 4228 will serve you well. You won't get WBBM at that distance, but then again, nobody can. The 4228 may get WBBM even after analog shutdown, at high power on channel 12.

DJ: $30...not really. Indoor or outdoor? Indoor, a VU-90 with an amplifier may work
from Radio Shack. Otherwise...the ones at Menard's for about $50 in an attic would work decently. This will work very well indoor or outdoor.

https://www.tselectronic.com/winegard/hd7082.html
Damn! $90 for that. :eek:
Something in the $50 range would do I think. Your out in Dekalb so you need something stronger like the one in the link you showed me. Do I really need something like that where I live at?

South Bend, Grand Rapids, Milwaukee and Madison are all blasting into my 3rd generation receiver tonight. Very cool...

Last night was one very strange night for propagation...

I lost all the Chicago stations. Every one of them. This has never happened before. Then, when I switched over to watch analog, they were all gone too! No interference, just pure snow. But Milwaukee wasnt affected. All the Milwaukee stations were coming in just fine.

At first I thought it was a tropo event, which evidently it was, that was affecting the UHF channels, but I no analog signal whatsoever on 5, 7, 9, 11. 7 had maybe a weak signal that I could barely see through the snow. 2 was still coming in with its usual lousy signal, so it wasnt affected.

Everything was back to normal this morning.

Spooky...

-dickm

Damn! $90 for that. :eek:
Something in the $50 range would do I think. Your out in Dekalb so you need something stronger like the one in the link you showed me. Do I really need something like that where I live at?

Hey DJ,

You could get the ones from Menard's and give it a whirl. Here's the kicker: the smaller ones at your distance won't get WBBM-DT. Otherwise, a UHF-only antenna will work. The problem is that WLS-DT and WBBM-DT are moving to VHF-HI (channels 7-13) in a year and a half. So you need to have more than a UHF antenna if you want to keep getting those, thinking long-term.

Try the VU-90 or the ChannelMaster from Menards at $50 or so and see what happens. You probably will need a preamplifier if it's indoors. Make sure you can get your money back in case it doesn't pan out.

Last night was one very strange night for propagation...

I lost all the Chicago stations. Every one of them. This has never happened before. Then, when I switched over to watch analog, they were all gone too! No interference, just pure snow. But Milwaukee wasnt affected. All the Milwaukee stations were coming in just fine.

At first I thought it was a tropo event, which evidently it was, that was affecting the UHF channels, but I no analog signal whatsoever on 5, 7, 9, 11. 7 had maybe a weak signal that I could barely see through the snow. 2 was still coming in with its usual lousy signal, so it wasnt affected.

Everything was back to normal this morning.

Spooky...

-dickm

That makes sense. Grand Rapids, MI was pounding in. And 2, 5, 7, 9, and 11 are all digital stations in Grand Rapids! :eek: I was having the same issue,
and if I pointed my antenna right, I should have been able to lock them.
(Too lazy to head into the attic and move a 10' VHF-only antenna!)
Madison was pounding in, so I also lost 20, 26, 32, and a little of 50...all Madison digitals. 44 was"snowy" because of a digital station north of Grand Rapids, I think.

Yep, I can't wait for analog shutdown!

Try..the ChannelMaster from Menards at $50 or so and see what happens.Are you sure you don't mean from Lowe's? I never saw a ChannelMaster at Menards, only a VHF/UHF Philips, and a UHF Zenith (unless Philips antennas are actually made by CM).

One good thing about trying the VR90 from Radio Shack is that they will take open returns.

Are you sure you don't mean from Lowe's? I never saw a ChannelMaster at Menards, only a VHF/UHF Philips, and a UHF Zenith (unless Philips antennas are actually made by CM).

One good thing about trying the VR90 from Radio Shack is that they will take open returns.

They've got them out here. On the other hand, Lowe's doesn't have them out here anymore.

The problem is that WLS-DT and WBBM-DT are moving to VHF-HI (channels 7-13) in a year and a half. So you need to have more than a UHF antenna if you want to keep getting those, thinking long-term.


I know WBBM-DT is going use channel 12, but what channel is WLS-DT moving to? Their digital is on 52 right now isn't it? Are they going to go back to 7 after analog shuts down?

I know WBBM-DT is going use channel 12, but what channel is WLS-DT moving to? Their digital is on 52 right now isn't it? Are they going to go back to 7 after analog shuts down?Yes.

Check out the beginning of the thread you are reading:
http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=9948418&&#post9948418

Hey DJ,

You could get the ones from Menard's and give it a whirl. Here's the kicker: the smaller ones at your distance won't get WBBM-DT. Otherwise, a UHF-only antenna will work. The problem is that WLS-DT and WBBM-DT are moving to VHF-HI (channels 7-13) in a year and a half. So you need to have more than a UHF antenna if you want to keep getting those, thinking long-term.

Try the VU-90 or the ChannelMaster from Menards at $50 or so and see what happens. You probably will need a preamplifier if it's indoors. Make sure you can get your money back in case it doesn't pan out.
I will give that one a try and see how it works. If I can, I would like to have the antenna indoors. My local channels come in pretty good in hi def except for Fox and that is my main channel for TV shows so thats what I am primarily concerned about.

I will give that one a try and see how it works. If I can, I would like to have the antenna indoors. My local channels come in pretty good in hi def except for Fox and that is my main channel for TV shows so thats what I am primarily concerned about.

If that's your primary concern, then the VU-90 with perhaps a preamplifier indoors should do you well.

Hey sebenste- I've been having trouble searching for what I'm looking for, thought maybe you'd know of a thing.

I live in a multi unit dwelling, and I have cable. (I just cannot get OTA reliably enough and had to bite the bullet.) However, my signal is a little low.

I have a 100' run. I replaced the crappy existing cable with RG-11 and that doubled my signal, but I still need a little more to do what I want to. I'm looking for an amplifier with the following two characteristics:

1) Works with cable modems. (return path pass through, or some such)
2) Has an external piece that I can install at the demarcation point that will "push" the signal and cleanly overcome the loss on the line. Like the two piece antenna-mounted amps.

Ever run across such a thing?

Hey sebenste- I've been having trouble searching for what I'm looking for, thought maybe you'd know of a thing.

I live in a multi unit dwelling, and I have cable. (I just cannot get OTA reliably enough and had to bite the bullet.) However, my signal is a little low.

I have a 100' run. I replaced the crappy existing cable with RG-11 and that doubled my signal, but I still need a little more to do what I want to. I'm looking for an amplifier with the following two characteristics:

1) Works with cable modems. (return path pass through, or some such)
2) Has an external piece that I can install at the demarcation point that will "push" the signal and cleanly overcome the loss on the line. Like the two piece antenna-mounted amps.

Ever run across such a thing?

Let me jump in here, since I have just a *little* more experience in the CATV field than Gilbert...

1. This is an OTA reception thread, not a cable thread. You're in the wrong place.

2. RG11??? Wow! If you feel that you need 11 for a 100' run...

3. Who is your cable company? Please post in the apporpriate thread for your cable company. Or, create a thread for your cableco.

4. It is a crime for you to access the MDU Demarc, period. Let alone add unauthorized equipment there. Call your cable company and let them address your concerns.

Regards,

Randy

Let me jump in here, since I have just a *little* more experience in the CATV field than Gilbert...

1. This is an OTA reception thread, not a cable thread. You're in the wrong place.

2. RG11??? Wow! If you feel that you need 11 for a 100' run...

3. Who is your cable company? Please post in the apporpriate thread for your cable company. Or, create a thread for your cableco.

4. It is a crime for you to access the MDU Demarc, period. Let alone add unauthorized equipment there. Call your cable company and let them address your concerns.

Regards,

Randy

Thanks for being helpful, Randy. I posted it here because this is where he hangs out.

2. According to the charts, RG-11 has up to half the loss of RG6/u for a 100 foot run. For the $20 it cost me, well worth it.

3. Comcast. Why is this relevant? The question is about signal amplifiers, not cable.

4. It's a crime to tamper with the box to receive signals illegally. I did neither. The line is my property once it comes out of the box.

Lighten up.

Let me jump in here, since I have just a *little* more experience in the CATV field than Gilbert...

LOL! :-) Just about everyone has more experience than I do (except mine were mostly "bad" experiences! ;)


Call your cable company and let them address your concerns.

Regards,

Randy

Randy's absolutely right on all 4---the last one up to your house, of course, which you pointed out. If the reception is bad, you need to call the cable company. I'd also take the RG-11 back. Comcast should be able to replace the RG-59 with their own RG-6, and then amplify the signal accordingly. You're paying them for a clear picture....it's one of the reasons (and the original reason) why you pay for it. And why after calling them numerous times to fix it, one reason why I left cable.

Anyway, in the event of an outage, bringing this back on topic, I'd still have some sort of an antenna for OTA as a backup, even if only "rabbit ears" and the loop UHF antenna.

Have a quick question guys. I live in Chicago suburb and have basic comcast cable. I get 2.1, 5.2, 7.1, 9.2, 32.1 1080i/720p channels. I'd like to have Discovery, History in HD. How much do they usually charge for these? I always get involved in their crap deals, so this time I want to be sure, that they won't rip off me before I make a call. My TV has a tuner, so I guess I don't need their box? Thank you.

Have a quick question guys. I live in Chicago suburb and have basic comcast cable. I get 2.1, 5.2, 7.1, 9.2, 32.1 1080i/720p channels. I'd like to have Discovery, History in HD. How much do they usually charge for these? I always get involved in their crap deals, so this time I want to be sure, that they won't rip off me before I make a call. My TV has a tuner, so I guess I don't need their box? Thank you.

This is the Chicagoland OTA thread...

This is the Comcast thread... http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=255885

;)

Regards,

Randy

Thanks.

Thanks.

You're welcome!

And you really should look into an OTA antenna for backup, as Gilbert mentioned earlier in the thread.

Randy's absolutely right on all 4---the last one up to your house, of course, which you pointed out. If the reception is bad, you need to call the cable company. I'd also take the RG-11 back. Comcast should be able to replace the RG-59 with their own RG-6, and then amplify the signal accordingly. You're paying them for a clear picture....it's one of the reasons (and the original reason) why you pay for it. And why after calling them numerous times to fix it, one reason why I left cable.


As I explained. The cable from the demarc is mine, not the cable company's. They won't change it with their own.

Why should I take the RG-11 back? It's a better cable than any RG6 out there, it is a 75 ohm cable and it has f-connectors. And it's loss figures per 100 feet are better than any rg6 that I could find.

I do have a clear picture, I want more signal so I can split the line for a QAM tuner.



Anyway, in the event of an outage, bringing this back on topic, I'd still have some sort of an antenna for OTA as a backup, even if only "rabbit ears" and the loop UHF antenna.

I haven't had an outage in years, and because of my location, I can't get a clear, reliable picture even with a 4228.

But that's not the point. If you didn't have an answer for me, all you had to do is say "no, I haven't heard of such a thing". If I was looking for abuse and criticism, I'd have asked my wife.

Hey, never mind. Thanks for the "help".

Hey sebenste- I've been having trouble searching for what I'm looking for, thought maybe you'd know of a thing.

I live in a multi unit dwelling, and I have cable. (I just cannot get OTA reliably enough and had to bite the bullet.) However, my signal is a little low.

I have a 100' run. I replaced the crappy existing cable with RG-11 and that doubled my signal, but I still need a little more to do what I want to. I'm looking for an amplifier with the following two characteristics:

1) Works with cable modems. (return path pass through, or some such)
2) Has an external piece that I can install at the demarcation point that will "push" the signal and cleanly overcome the loss on the line. Like the two piece antenna-mounted amps.

Ever run across such a thing?

There is such a thing as too much signal. Im not sure how your measuring your signal but its unlikely that a run of 11 Vs a run of 6 for 100' doubled your signal.

Secondly, unless you own the MDU you live in, you do not own the cable running from the box. Or even in your unit depending on the MDU. Most MDUs hold the cableco responsible for all exterior wiring.

Any amp you install AT the lockbox will most likely be removed by any cable technician upon sight. It most likely will not be an aproved material and furthermore against spec. They tend to be a little protective as to what feeds BACK into their system as wel.

If you have +15 coming out of the lockboxand you put in a 15db amp youll be at +30 leaving the lockbox. Regardless of what it is when it enters your unit, your overdriving your signal which will present itself as busy horizontal lines across your screen.

If you have legitimate signal issues you really should have them addressed. If you just want to get as much signal into your unit as possible, or have some sort of obsessive compulsive thing going on with loosing signal due to attenuation- you really should learn as much as possible about what you can and cant do.

Good luck regardless.

As I explained. The cable from the demarc is mine, not the cable company's. They won't change it with their own.

Why should I take the RG-11 back? It's a better cable than any RG6 out there, it is a 75 ohm cable and it has f-connectors. And it's loss figures per 100 feet are better than any rg6 that I could find.

I do have a clear picture, I want more signal so I can split the line for a QAM tuner.




I haven't had an outage in years, and because of my location, I can't get a clear, reliable picture even with a 4228.

But that's not the point. If you didn't have an answer for me, all you had to do is say "no, I haven't heard of such a thing". If I was looking for abuse and criticism, I'd have asked my wife.

Hey, never mind. Thanks for the "help".

Randy,

I wasn't meaning to criticize or abuse. I was defending you that you were right...you can change your inside wiring...it's yours. And you are right that RG-11 is considerably better than RG-6. However, I think the best way to handle it is to let Comcast put in their own RG-6, then boost the signal so that even after a split, you can get great reception on all your TV's. You can keep the RG-11 in there, but I was just trying to save you $20, because Comcast should take care of it. They aren't giving you the signal you are paying for. But since they have already decided they won't swap it out, keep it, and I'll add it to my list of 3,208 reasons why Comcast customer service...isn't.

As for a bi-directional amplifier for cable modems, this one is useful:

http://www.amazon.com/CABLES-GO-41033-Bi-directional-Digital/dp/B0002J2P7U

And I misunderstood you...I thought you didn't have a clear picture to begin with. Mea culpa, and my apologies. And as for the 4228, wow. That is definitely a hard signal area where you are.

And again, I didn't mean to come off as insulting or abusive, and if I did, I most certainly apologize.

Hey sebenste- I've been having trouble searching for what I'm looking for, thought maybe you'd know of a thing.

I live in a multi unit dwelling, and I have cable. (I just cannot get OTA reliably enough and had to bite the bullet.) However, my signal is a little low.

I have a 100' run. I replaced the crappy existing cable with RG-11 and that doubled my signal, but I still need a little more to do what I want to. I'm looking for an amplifier with the following two characteristics:

1) Works with cable modems. (return path pass through, or some such)
2) Has an external piece that I can install at the demarcation point that will "push" the signal and cleanly overcome the loss on the line. Like the two piece antenna-mounted amps.

Ever run across such a thing?
I don't know of any 2-piece bidirectional cable amps. Otherwise, a common cable amp is the Motorola 484095-001-00. It's a 15dB amp with a 2.5dB max noise. It should make a good OTA amp, too.

You could put it right where your cable comes in, and put the splitters after it. To be honest, if your modem has good signal levels, split before that. You may even want to use a tap if your modem has good incoming levels. That will allow the TV to get a slightly stronger signal. A 6dB tap will have roughly 2.5dB of loss on the pass-thru, vs 3.5dB on a normal splitter. Higher dB taps will have lower pass-thru loss.

There is such a thing as too much signal. Im not sure how your measuring your signal but its unlikely that a run of 11 Vs a run of 6 for 100' doubled your signal.

Secondly, unless you own the MDU you live in, you do not own the cable running from the box. Or even in your unit depending on the MDU. Most MDUs hold the cableco responsible for all exterior wiring.

Any amp you install AT the lockbox will most likely be removed by any cable technician upon sight. It most likely will not be an aproved material and furthermore against spec. They tend to be a little protective as to what feeds BACK into their system as wel.

If you have +15 coming out of the lockboxand you put in a 15db amp youll be at +30 leaving the lockbox. Regardless of what it is when it enters your unit, your overdriving your signal which will present itself as busy horizontal lines across your screen.

If you have legitimate signal issues you really should have them addressed. If you just want to get as much signal into your unit as possible, or have some sort of obsessive compulsive thing going on with loosing signal due to attenuation- you really should learn as much as possible about what you can and cant do.

Good luck regardless.

Thanks for the info! It is a condo, so I do own the wires. I was using the cable modem's config page combined with the loss specs of the cable to determine doubled signal. (assuming every 3.5 db is a doubling?)

What do the cablecos use to overcome signal loss on a long run like this?

I'm not sure what I have coming out of the box, but at the outlet in my unit, my cable modem shows 35db signal to noise with -15 dBmV of power. (36db/-12 with the rg11) It shows 54.0 dBmV of return power. Just enough signal to split once to my STB and modem, so I can't complain to Comcast. If I say I want to split it off to a QAM tuner and a PC-based capture card, they're going to look at me like I'm a lunatic.

And I apologize for being snippy, I was honestly looking for advice from the people here who know more about signal and amps. That's the crux of my problem, not

The still to be built WOCK-LD (Azteca America), displaced by WBBM-DT's move to channel 12, had applied to move to channel 6, directional west, south and east to keep from interfering with FOX 6 in Milwaukee. However, Venture Technologies also has analog and digital applications and a CP for an analog displacement on channel 6, when they were bumped off channel 55. I will update the first page with all the info. It will be interesting to see how this plays out.

Also, I noted analog channel 48 is off the air today, but is still on 26-3.

Is it their digital signal that WOCK-LP wants on channel 6?

If so, Fox 6 from Milwaukee is analog, and will be gone soon enough anyway, so what's the big deal?

Is it their digital signal that WOCK-LP wants on channel 6?
Yes.

If so, Fox 6 from Milwaukee is analog, and will be gone soon enough anyway, so what's the big deal?

Think about it: 9% of the power that WBBM-DT has now, with much of the interference they get now, and even WORSE interference from FM stations than WBBM-DT. With all that FM radio radiation coming off of Sears, that channel will be slaughtered.

And, they are competing with another displaced channel from Venture Technologies, who asked for it first. That said, I know they can't do much better.
In another year, they can move to channel 11. Yes, I know, but at 300 watts,
they can at least go omnidirectional, and be picked up within 10 miles of Sears.

BTW, something you should know: WBBM is at 4.4 kw, but only 3.15 kw is directed towards Crystal Lake/Gilberts. When they go to channel 12, they might have to briefly go to 3.2 kw. With a 6th gen tuner, even at that power, we should be able to lock it. I'd love to have a 6th gen right now. This morning (8/17/07), there was a major tropo event though central and northern IL. A respected DTV DX'er in Champaign claimed he had digital signals on every channel from 14-59 on his scope, but his 3rd or 4th generation tuner couldn't lock many of them. But one guy in town did say he briefly locked WBBM-DT from Champaign this morning. I guess their analog channel 3 must have been off the air for maintenance or something...

The still to be built WOCK-LD (Azteca America), displaced by WBBM-DT's move to channel 12, had applied to move to channel 6, directional west, south and east to keep from interfering with FOX 6 in Milwaukee. However, Venture Technologies also has analog and digital applications and a CP for an analog displacement on channel 6, when they were bumped off channel 55. I will update the first page with all the info. It will be interesting to see how this plays out.

Also, I noted analog channel 48 is off the air today, but is still on 26-3.
Transmitter maintenance on 48.

Yes.



Think about it: 9% of the power that WBBM-DT has now, with much of the interference they get now, and even WORSE interference from FM stations than WBBM-DT. With all that FM radio radiation coming off of Sears, that channel will be slaughtered.

And, they are competing with another displaced channel from Venture Technologies, who asked for it first. That said, I know they can't do much better.
In another year, they can move to channel 11. Yes, I know, but at 300 watts,
they can at least go omnidirectional, and be picked up within 10 miles of Sears.

BTW, something you should know: WBBM is at 4.4 kw, but only 3.15 kw is directed towards Crystal Lake/Gilberts. When they go to channel 12, they might have to briefly go to 3.2 kw. With a 6th gen tuner, even at that power, we should be able to lock it. I'd love to have a 6th gen right now. This morning (8/17/07), there was a major tropo event though central and northern IL. A respected DTV DX'er in Champaign claimed he had digital signals on every channel from 14-59 on his scope, but his 3rd or 4th generation tuner couldn't lock many of them. But one guy in town did say he briefly locked WBBM-DT from Champaign this morning. I guess their analog channel 3 must have been off the air for maintenance or something...

I'm not from Champaign, Gilbert. I got WBBM-DT from here in Webster Groves, MO, ten miles southwest of the Gateway Arch...

And I got it on a 4228, on the backside, fed with about 70' of RG-6 quad into a 4th gen Sanyo reciever. No amplifier, since I'm visual line of sight with no less than *five* megawatt DTV xmtrs, a dozen 100 KW FM's, plus 4 full power VHF analogs, plus one VHF-High LPTV and a half dozen LPTV's. I omit KETC-9, KNLC-24, and WRBU-47, BTW.

And a badly grounded religious 4.6 KW AM at 500 YARDS.

Oh, yeah, a dozen 400' skyscrapers at four miles too, thrown in just for the multipath.

Can you say "front-end overload" and "intermod"? I have a challenging DX environment.

Same night, I picked up ABC 41, Battle Creek MI, on an indoor DB-4, feeding the same set (switching, three antennas). I've got 3 4228's outside, two DB-4's and one DB-2 inside. Suprisingly, due to the wonders of diffraction and positioning (not to mention front-end-overload) the indoor north pointed DB-4 gets Ottumwa IA, Hannibal/Quincy, and most of the Central IL stations during even modest tropo events.

Maybe I'm not trying hard enough, and need a service monitor and spectrum analyzer?

I'm not from Champaign, Gilbert. I got WBBM-DT from here in Webster Groves, MO, ten miles southwest of the Gateway Arch...

:eek:

And I got it on a 4228,
:eek:

on the backside,
:eek:

fed with about 70' of RG-6 quad into a 4th gen Sanyo reciever. No amplifier, since I'm visual line of sight with no less than *five* megawatt DTV xmtrs, a dozen 100 KW FM's, plus 4 full power VHF analogs, plus one VHF-High LPTV and a half dozen LPTV's. I omit KETC-9, KNLC-24, and WRBU-47, BTW.

And a badly grounded religious 4.6 KW AM at 500 YARDS.

Oh, yeah, a dozen 400' skyscrapers at four miles too, thrown in just for the multipath.

Can you say "front-end overload" and "intermod"? I have a challenging DX environment.


Well, now we know the conspiracy theory is true: WBBM-DT is sending their signal down to St. Louis! :eek: :D

That's right, I had forgotten you lived down in STL. That is an AMAZING catch!

Same night, I picked up ABC 41, Battle Creek MI, on an indoor DB-4, feeding the same set (switching, three antennas). I've got 3 4228's outside, two DB-4's and one DB-2 inside. Suprisingly, due to the wonders of diffraction and positioning (not to mention front-end-overload) the indoor north pointed DB-4 gets Ottumwa IA, Hannibal/Quincy, and most of the Central IL stations during even modest tropo events.

Maybe I'm not trying hard enough, and need a service monitor and spectrum analyzer?[/QUOTE]

Uh, yeah...try harder...sure. :p :D

That night was amazing for tropo, as you know. I have a 3rd gen tuner and a 4228 on a rotor, and I had ALL surrounding markets hammer in with ease from every direction sans Peoria, with a large ridge off to my south and southwest blocking the signal. I need to get a 6th gen...and probably will do so early next year when prices come down.

:eek:

:eek:

:eek:



Well, now we know the conspiracy theory is true: WBBM-DT is sending their signal down to St. Louis! :eek: :D

That's right, I had forgotten you lived down in STL. That is an AMAZING catch!


Maybe I'm not trying hard enough, and need a service monitor and spectrum analyzer?

Uh, yeah...try harder...sure. :p :D

That night was amazing for tropo, as you know. I have a 3rd gen tuner and a 4228 on a rotor, and I had ALL surrounding markets hammer in with ease from every direction sans Peoria, with a large ridge off to my south and southwest blocking the signal. I need to get a 6th gen...and probably will do so early next year when prices come down.[/QUOTE]

Only buy a 6th gen with the free sex droid thrown in. :)

I have terrain problems to my south and west. I can pick up *Pittsburgh*, but not KC or Little Rock. Columbia/Jeff is as far west as I can see. I've only gotten two captures in three years from SGF/Joplin. Blame it on a collection of 60-80' trees, and a nasty ridgeline.

When will Comcast have 26-1 (WCIU HD) available? Just got an LG 20" LCD for the kitchen and I get all of the local channels in HD (CADTV).

I have two 3416s for my other rooms but Comcast does not carry WCIU in HD but I figured it would have the CADTV versions.

Any ideas? Thanks, in advance.

When will Comcast have 26-1 (WCIU HD) available? Just got an LG 20" LCD for the kitchen and I get all of the local channels in HD (CADTV).

I have two 3416s for my other rooms but Comcast does not carry WCIU in HD but I figured it would have the CADTV versions.

Any ideas? Thanks, in advance.

We've played around with the idea a few times. :D I cannot comment directly on it. All I can say is call Comcast and ask for us. Every little push helps.

You are, however, 25 miles too far away to reliably get Milwaukee. So Chicago it is...

Would it be possible to get Milwaukee signals with a taller antenna and rotor? I'm a big Packer fan and it would be excellent to catch the Pack in HD every week.

I'm a Chicago sports fan living in Racine, WI in one story duplex a couple blocks from the lake. I've been using a DB4 hanging from the ceiling near the southeast corner of the house with a Radio Shack amp for the last 2 years. It's been pretty reliable in the winter but it's usually worthless during the summers. I was able to watch a Cubs game on WGN last week for the first time in 2 months. I'm currently renting but my landlord has given me the okay to put an antenna on the roof. I was planning on a 4228 since I didn't think WBBM was ever going to be possible but now I don't know. With WLS and WBBM moving to VHF 7 and 12 respectively, what antenna would be my best option going forward in order to pull in those channels too? I'm 60 miles from the towers. I'd rather get it done now and not have to worry about it again after the shutdown. The most important stations for my sports are WGN, WBBM, and WFLD, getting anything else is a bonus. Any idea how much a typical install would cost if I didn't do it myself? Or any installer recommendations for SE Wisconsin? Thanks.

Tom

Would it be possible to get Milwaukee signals with a taller antenna and rotor? I'm a big Packer fan and it would be excellent to catch the Pack in HD every week.

Hello Snert,

I wrote up a 20 minute list that just got blown away by Internet Explorer 7.0. Thanks, Bill Gates! :D

In short, not reliably. To have any hope of getting it (Dundee can get it on the north side of town on a hill, but that's the farthest I've heard of to get Milwaukee stations reliably) at least during the evening hours, you need to get WISN-DT 34 (12.1). It's 900' up on a tower on the north side of Milwaukee, with a strong signal lobe pointing south, which is good news for you.

But...line of sight is 60 miles by day, 70-80 miles by night, with a big antenna at least 30' up. To have any hope of getting it, you'd need:

1. ChannelMaster 4228 UHF antenna
2. ChannelMaster 7777 signal preamplifier
3. Belden 1694A RG-6 cable (All of these three available at Tri State Electronics, www.tselelectronic.com, or you can drive there. NOTE: these are all NON-REFUNDABLE!)
4. The antenna must be AT LEAST 30' high.

Here's WISN-DT's reliable broadcast area, this assumes no preamplifiers and a big antenna at and near the fringe:

http://www.fcc.gov/fcc-bin/FMTV-service-area?x=DT1056729.html

If you had this 30'+ up, then you have a shot in the evenings. You would likely also pick up the Chicago stations from the back of the antenna, to be used as a backup.

My thought would be it would be too unreliable for Milwaukee, but if you want it that bad, and can afford it, you can also shoot for WQRF-DT in Rockford, which can get permission from the NFL to show Packer games from time to time.

http://www.fcc.gov/fcc-bin/FMTV-service-area?x=DT1171224.html

Again, unless you have the antenna over 30' up, it's not worth trying.

I'm a Chicago sports fan living in Racine, WI in one story duplex a couple blocks from the lake. I've been using a DB4 hanging from the ceiling near the southeast corner of the house with a Radio Shack amp for the last 2 years. It's been pretty reliable in the winter but it's usually worthless during the summers. I was able to watch a Cubs game on WGN last week for the first time in 2 months. I'm currently renting but my landlord has given me the okay to put an antenna on the roof. I was planning on a 4228 since I didn't think WBBM was ever going to be possible but now I don't know. With WLS and WBBM moving to VHF 7 and 12 respectively, what antenna would be my best option going forward in order to pull in those channels too? I'm 60 miles from the towers. I'd rather get it done now and not have to worry about it again after the shutdown. The most important stations for my sports are WGN, WBBM, and WFLD, getting anything else is a bonus. Any idea how much a typical install would cost if I didn't do it myself? Or any installer recommendations for SE Wisconsin? Thanks.

Tom

Hi Tom,

Yeah, WGN-DT is not great north and northwest of the Chicago metro because of interference from WMTV-DT in Madison broadcasting on the same channel (19).

WBBM isn't moving until after February 2009. To get them and WLS,
you'd need a VERY big VHF/UHF combo antenna. The Winegard 8200P is what you'd need to get 7 and 12 reliably:

https://www.tselectronic.com/winegard/hd8200.html

To ship it, it's like $100+! It's cheaper for you to get a pickup truck or rent a big van and get it. 177.5" long, or over 11' . Keep that in mind; I bet your landlord wouldn't like that.

If not, then the 4228 can pick up VHF OK, but you'd probably need a ChannelMaster 7777 preamp to get what you'd want. And it wouldn't get WBBM before they moved to 12. Then again, you probably won't lock WBBM-DT with the 8200P, but then again...near the lake, you have a better than average chance. Especially since the signal is going over some interference-free water...

As for an installer in SE WI, can't help you there, sorry. Installers typically charge $300 for basic installs, $500+ if you mounted it on the roof.

They show the Packer games on their ABC affiliate in Milwaukee?

Darn - that's the one channel I have the hardest time getting from there. Why can't they show them on WITI? I get that in pretty regularly.

Hopefully, WQRF will show some, because that just blasts in. Not that I'm a Packer fan or anything, but it would be nice to have some more games to watch, especially if they're in HD.

I've been catching the occasional MLB game from Mil. this summer.

They show the Packer games on their ABC affiliate in Milwaukee?

Darn - that's the one channel I have the hardest time getting from there. Why can't they show them on WITI? I get that in pretty regularly.

Hopefully, WQRF will show some, because that just blasts in. Not that I'm a Packer fan or anything, but it would be nice to have some more games to watch, especially if they're in HD.

I've been catching the occasional MLB game from Mil. this summer.

of the Packer games are on WITI-DT in Milwaukee which is Fox.

Tom

Hi Tom,

Yeah, WGN-DT is not great north and northwest of the Chicago metro because of interference from WMTV-DT in Madison broadcasting on the same channel (19).

WBBM isn't moving until after February 2009. To get them and WLS,
you'd need a VERY big VHF/UHF combo antenna. The Winegard 8200P is what you'd need to get 7 and 12 reliably:

https://www.tselectronic.com/winegard/hd8200.html

To ship it, it's like $100+! It's cheaper for you to get a pickup truck or rent a big van and get it. 177.5" long, or over 11' . Keep that in mind; I bet your landlord wouldn't like that.

If not, then the 4228 can pick up VHF OK, but you'd probably need a ChannelMaster 7777 preamp to get what you'd want. And it wouldn't get WBBM before they moved to 12. Then again, you probably won't lock WBBM-DT with the 8200P, but then again...near the lake, you have a better than average chance. Especially since the signal is going over some interference-free water...

As for an installer in SE WI, can't help you there, sorry. Installers typically charge $300 for basic installs, $500+ if you mounted it on the roof.

about my landlord and that big of an antenna. Just to clarify though. I'm not currently looking to get WBBM. But I would like to put up something now that stands a good chance of pulling those two VHF stations in after the shutdown. I've read in someplaces that the 4228 can do VHF (7-13) but I wasn't sure how effective it would be at 60 miles. I wasn't really looking to pull in those initially until I read about the changes after the shutdown. The 4228 preamp combo has been my plan since last summer and if you think that I have a decent chance of pulling those stations in with it then great. If another much larger of an antenna is necessary to pull in those VHF stations then I could probably make due without them. WGN and WFLD are two most important channels for me. WBBM usually only has 1 or 2 Bears games anyway. Thanks.

Tom

of the Packer games are on WITI-DT in Milwaukee which is Fox.

Tom

Tom,

True, I need to clarify that when they aren't shown on FOX, they are shown a lot on ABC. And when they are, they are on WITI. At nearly a million watts on channel 33, they go pretty far as well.

As for channels 7 and 12, with a preamp, I think you have a decent shot on top of an apartment, outdoors. The 4228 has anywhere from 4-10 dB gain on the VHF-HI band, so with the antenna up high and that preamp, I say you have a decent shot of getting it. You're within (just barely) line of sight.

of the Packer games are on WITI-DT in Milwaukee which is Fox.

TomAlright!!

(Who needs Direct's over-compressed, over-priced Sunday Ticket when you've got all these network games in HD for free :p:)?!)

True, I need to clarify that when they aren't shown on FOX, they are shown a lot on ABC. And when they are, they are on WITI. At nearly a million watts on channel 33, they go pretty far as well.


Hmmm, finally getting around to putting up the HD8200P on the roof. I'll have to turn it towards Milwaukee to see if I can pick anything up before I point it back to Chicago.

Out of curiosity, do you think an HD9095P would have a better chance of pulling something in that far away? Or am I way out of range?

This reminds me of when I once asked the Tri-State guy if I could get Milwaukee stations in Arlington Heights. I don't think he took me seriously at first, but then his response was that it wouldn't be possible due to sheer distance. The more I think about it, he was probably right. When I was much younger and people still used outdoor TV antennas in abundance, I knew of some area residents who got analog reception on 4, 6, 10 and 12 from up North. However, fast forward 20+ years, and you realize that in order to get the Milwaukee signals, you not only have to overcome 70 miles of distance, but you also have to compensate for the ground clutter which probably didn't exist back then. A VHF signal might still make the trip, but I doubt you'll get UHF to go that far unless you're experiencing tropo.

If you can pull off watchable Milwaukee DT reception in Streamwood, please let us know.

Tom,

True, I need to clarify that when they aren't shown on FOX, they are shown a lot on ABC. And when they are, they are on WITI. At nearly a million watts on channel 33, they go pretty far as well.

As for channels 7 and 12, with a preamp, I think you have a decent shot on top of an apartment, outdoors. The 4228 has anywhere from 4-10 dB gain on the VHF-HI band, so with the antenna up high and that preamp, I say you have a decent shot of getting it. You're within (just barely) line of sight.

Looking at the Packers schedule, they have 2 games on WDJT and the rest that aren't in primetime are on WITI. Unless that late season flex scheduling moves them to primetime. The only time they might have a game on ABC would be a preseason game. You'd probably get a better answer from a Packer fan though.

Any idea on what would be a good height to get that 4228 up to? I do believe I have a pretty clear line of sight in that direction.

Tom

Hmmm, finally getting around to putting up the HD8200P on the roof. I'll have to turn it towards Milwaukee to see if I can pick anything up before I point it back to Chicago.

Out of curiosity, do you think an HD9095P would have a better chance of pulling something in that far away? Or am I way out of range?

Hi Andy,

The 9095P doesn't have the greatest reflector, so I say no. However, I can tell all of you this: WMVS-DT channel 8.1 (resolves to 10.1-6) is a blowtorch.
Even in winter in DeKalb with no tropo, I can see low amounts signal from it from a VU-90 antenna. I know that on certain tall buildings in Chicago, WMVS-DT comes in with rabbit ears and pegs the signal meter! :eek:

When you crank out that much power on VHF, and 1 mw on UHF, it's all about height. Distance with 1 mw, line of sight, is hundreds of miles
if your antenna is high enough, of course. Out in the Rockies, some of the stations go 200+ miles from mountaintops in Idaho. In L.A., line of sight in some directions is 120 miles from Mt. Wilson.

Looking at the Packers schedule, they have 2 games on WDJT and the rest that aren't in primetime are on WITI. Unless that late season flex scheduling moves them to primetime. The only time they might have a game on ABC would be a preseason game. You'd probably get a better answer from a Packer fan though.

Any idea on what would be a good height to get that 4228 up to? I do believe I have a pretty clear line of sight in that direction.

Tom

To receive Chicago in Kenosha, 30' is sufficient. Maybe less...if you are line-of-sight, give it a try at however high you can get it. When the FCC and TV stations do their signal strength calculations, it's always based on the antenna being outdoors at 30' up, with the "proper size".

This reminds me of when I once asked the Tri-State guy if I could get Milwaukee stations in Arlington Heights. I don't think he took me seriously at first, but then his response was that it wouldn't be possible due to sheer distance. The more I think about it, he was probably right. When I was much younger and people still used outdoor TV antennas in abundance, I knew of some area residents who got analog reception on 4, 6, 10 and 12 from up North. However, fast forward 20+ years, and you realize that in order to get the Milwaukee signals, you not only have to overcome 70 miles of distance, but you also have to compensate for the ground clutter which probably didn't exist back then. A VHF signal might still make the trip, but I doubt you'll get UHF to go that far unless you're experiencing tropo.

Long,

I can say this. Ground clutter is not really the problem. People put up either inadequate antennas, lead-in cable, make poor connections or use poor connectors, or point the antenna incorrectly. If any one of these is bad,
you're toast. I've been doing this now for 4 years, and I've learned that the connectors are killer. Mess that up, and you can have a 4228 on top of a 300' tower, but you won't get much or anything.

I practiced in my attic on how to do connections right, find what connectors work best, what cable does...and when/why to use what. One of the antennas I recommended to a friend in Hoffman Estates was the Winegard HD 8200P. He can lock WTVO with no tropo off the side with a 4th gen tuner, while pointing at Chicago. He locks WBBM-DT easily(!).

I don't think it's much more difficult on UHF. In fact, with digital, the signal is roughly 18 dB cleaner. I was told when I first jumped on AVS that DX'ing or even 70 mile reception wasn't possible. I was getting WCIU-DT at 15 kw exactly 60 miles away from the transmitter (measured via GPS), low near a river valley, with channel 27 in Madison interfering from time to time. People got 2.3 kw WQRF-DT (at the time, at that low power) 40 miles out. And I could lock it on a roof 60' up in Crystal Lake, 50 miles out!

Once you get above 400 kilowatts on UHF, it's all about the height of the antenna: yours and the station. Assuming yours is decent. The fact that someone who has done it right in Dundee can lock them should being hope to some of you that it is possible.

.

Here's a question Gilbert...

Do you think an antenna installation service would be a money-maker in the NE IL, SE WI area?

I'm thinking of branching out from the Cable/IT field. :eek:

I'm not sure how I could market a service like that either. I'm fairly certain that I couldn't do it on here. ;)

Your thoughts would be appreciated.

Regards,

Randy

Here's a question Gilbert...

Do you think an antenna installation service would be a money-maker in the NE IL, SE WI area?

I'm thinking of branching out from the Cable/IT field. :eek:

I'm not sure how I could market a service like that either. I'm fairly certain that I couldn't do it on here. ;)

Your thoughts would be appreciated.

Regards,

Randy
Bink,

Not full time. Almost every company that used to do it has gone under. I do it occasionally as people ask, but I definitely couldn't make a living off of it.
It does help the bottom line some, and it's fun for me and my helper to do.

However, I can tell all of you this: WMVS-DT channel 8.1 (resolves to 10.1-6) is a blowtorch.
Even in winter in DeKalb with no tropo, I can see low amounts signal from it from a VU-90 antenna. I know that on certain tall buildings in Chicago, WMVS-DT comes in with rabbit ears and pegs the signal meter! :eek:

Hmm, maybe there's hope. In my old townhouse I had a 7084 in the attic pointed at Chicago and my TV did lock in 10.1 during a scan, but not enough signal for a picture.