I don't have the box to my preamp and it doesn't list anything on the amp. When I first got the antenna earlier this year I had it w/out the preamp and I was able to WHA-DT but no other madison stations. With the preamp I get all of the madison stations except WMSN-DT (11). And after sunset with right conditions I get chicago starting with Fox coming in first then nbc, abc & mntv. wgn and wciu i have a hard time keeping a lock on with madison brodcasting on 19 and 27. The cable I'm using came from someone who was moving away and had it connected to a dish. It does list RG6 on the cable so i figured it would be fine. It is about 20 feet longer than what I need. I don't think it's Quad shielded since it dosn't list it.

Sorry I didn't post back right away but i'm too cheap to have Internet access at home. Which brings me to my next question, I'm too cheap to pay over $50 - $60 for cable so I can get NFL Network and I heard that my network tv in chicago will carry the bears game this thursday, is this true and is there any suggestions for a way to pick up mntv50 either analog or digital from 80 miles out.

No problem! Yes, it sounds like your reception problems from Rockford is simple: too MUCH signal, and your tuner can't handle the overload. I suggest you point it away from Rockford at an angle and find a sweet spot that picks up enough signal to get what you want.

Yes, MNTV 50 (WPWR-DT 51.1, resolves to 50.1) will carry the game this Thursday. Analog and digital will be tough for you because: 1. WBUW-DT broadcasts digitally from Madison on 50, and 2. WCFC-CA from Rockford broadcasts analog on 51 at low power. But if you use a highly directional antenna and if the winds are light and you are high enough, you have a shot at it. Let us know if you can get it Thursday night (either digital or analog).

FYI The game this thursday will be in HD according to an add on there website where it shows that it will be on comcast channel 184 in hd. So hopefully that will mean the same for 50-1. I just hope that Fox decides to bump MyNetwork up to 1080I because the NFL network feed is 1080I. I Think I will be blacked out from watching the NFL Network feed directly so, Im crossing my fingers.

I'd think that the NFL wouldn't black out NFL Network for the OTA affiliate. ESPN didn't black out when the Skins played their Monday Night Football game earlier in the year.

And no, WPWR won't flip to 1080i.

A general consensus is that 720p is better for sports due to the higher frame rate (60fps vs 30fps [2 fields] for 1080i.)

Don't be so pessamistic. :) The signal contour you see at FCC.gov is not a "this is only where you'll get us" area. Acutal coverage should be a bit larger than shown. I cannot comment on the plans of the powers to be but don't assume we'll drop 26.2 just because 23.1 starts up. Pending a FCC blessing after Feb 17, 2009, I am sure we'll be lookin to increase our power. :D

And congrats on getting that power upgrade, however small, approved by the FCC. It's a done deal! 1.8 kw it is.

A general consensus is that 720p is better for sports due to the higher frame rate (60fps vs 30fps [2 fields] for 1080i.)

Agreed. You gain, on average, an extra MB of bandwidth on 720p. Although I must give Harmonic a shameless plug because it does also come down to the encoder in the end. :D

And congrats on getting that power upgrade, however small, approved by the FCC. It's a done deal! 1.8 kw it is.

What took you so long??? :D

What took you so long??? :D

I waited for the FCC Daily Digest to show it! :D

BTW, any air date set yet? Gettin' cold out there to hang an antenna on Sears!

I waited for the FCC Daily Digest to show it! :D

BTW, any air date set yet? Gettin' cold out there to hang an antenna on Sears!

I'm not hanging it so it doesn't bother me one bit. :D We have all the parts just waiting on last minute stuff.

..I'm too cheap to pay over $50 - $60 for cable so I can get NFL Network..Too cheap? Not being crazy enough to pay $50. - $60. a month just to get one channel, no matter WHAT it is, sounds more like good, common sense to me. :)

I'm not hanging it so it doesn't bother me one bit. :DI sure hope you meant "mounting it". I'd sure hate to have to depend on the signal if it was just "hangin'" there. :D

I sure hope you meant "mounting it". I'd sure hate to have to depend on the signal if it was just "hangin'" there. :D

Well, we are using "flex" line.:eek:

Good luck on "mounting it" :D.. Thats got to be one of the coolest aspects of the job. I wish that I could be there when you geter done. It would be way cool to know that I put a new channel on air today from the antenna down. How many people could say that now. (quite a few here) but we represent a fraction of the population :)

Gad, how much does one of those things weigh, anyway?

Well we don't climb towers (thankfully) but I may be up there when they mount WWME-LD. As far as weight, the full power antennas are un-godly weight. The lower powers depending on how many bays it is they can be rather light. WWME-LD's 4-bay TLP-4M is only about 6' long and I can pick it up my self.

Hi,

Thanks to all of the usefull information on this thread I have been able to all of the Chicago HD stations including the elusive WBBM. I am using the Antennacract Y5-2-6 combined though a UVSJ to a UHF Yagi. All of this is mounted in the attic and I am using preamps for both antennas. I still have problems with WBBM. I only really get it at night and breaks up continuously. I am about 5 miles SW of Aurora in new construction with an empty field to the east. I think my biggest problem is that I am only a few blocks from a radio tower. I think it is a cell tower but it also has antennas for emergency services. I see a lot of interference on analog channel 2 and 5. Turning on the FM trap on the preamp does nothing to improve reception. The UHF/VHF HI analog and digital channels are unaffected leading me to believe that the problem is interference from the emergency services band. Is there some sort of trap for the emergency services band that can eliminate this interference?

No, but what makes you think it is from emergency service? Getting WBBM from 5 SW of Aurora is very hard to do, and nearly impossible in the attic.
In fact, you would be the farthest person I know of who gets it that far out in Illinois in an attic. What preamplifier are you using, and can you hook up the antenna to an analog signal to see if you see any interference on WBBM-TV?

Hi Gilbert,

I am right off of Route 47 between Sugar Grove and Yorkville. I am using am using a Philips preamp with 28db for VHF and ~4db noise for the VHF yagi with about 4 feet of twinlead in between. I am using a ChannelMaster 065 for the UHF yagi. When I look at channel 2 analog there is a lot of wavy interference. According to the KYES copy of FCC handbook this interference can be cause by two-way radio. Since I am literally in the shadow of a radio tower with lots of antennas on it I figured that the RFI must be coming from there. I plan to put the VHF yagi outside when I get some vacation in a few weeks, but I figure that will only increase the amount of RFI since I get so much in the attic on the analog channels.

I have a friend who just moved near there, so I know where you are. It could be, but when you say "wavy" interference, what does it look like:

http://www.selfhelpandmore.com/interference/tv/tvshowall.htm

Did you say you are using "twin lead"? IE, 300 OHM, IE, two flat wires?
If so, that offers no protection from interference, and i'd switch that out with RG-6 cable...pronto!

The interference looks like it could be from several of the sources listed. The two that look closest to the interference I see are INTERFERENCE CAUSED BY A RADIO TRANSMITTER or INDUSTRIAL EQUIPMENT. I am only about 2 miles west of the Catepillar plant so it could definately be from there. The suggest solution is a high pass filter. I found one online and orderded it. I will try the RG6 cable for the down lead as well.

The RG-6 should help a lot. Twin lead has NO insulation and is terrible for TV signals...except for getting, oddly enough, channels 2-6 at fairly close range (but beyond your range). In fact, going around gutters or getting near or touching anything metal (including getting near attic power boxes and even nails) causes problems. Get that RG-6 and I bet you it helps!

What about quad shield rg6?

What about quad shield rg6?

Even better: if you believe it could be coming through your cable, nothing beats Belden's 1694 RG-6 tri-shield:

http://www.bluejeanscable.com/store/rf/index.htm

This cable gives you two advantages:

1. VERY low loss cable, and
2. Even though it is "only" tri-shield, you get better insulation from interference due to the materials they use.

It's thus a level more expensive than quad-shield, but the performance is excellent. They use it at TV stations, including WCIU-DT. They like it!
You can get it locally at Tri-State Electronics up in the northwest suburbs (www.tselectronic.com), but it's a haul unless you work up there. But if it's just several feet long, the extra cost is worth it.

pgartung:

Honestly, I would suggest a better preamp that will do a better job at keeping random noise created by the preamp ITSELF down, which is VERY important for VHF-Low channels like WBBM-DT. I suggest the Channel Master 7777.

I had the CM7777 and then sold it because it didn't help the WBBM situation. I also tried a CM065VSB but moved it to the UHF yagi because it didn't help. The Philips preamp has a higher gain for VHF than either CM preamps which is why I bought it when I saw it at Menards.

I was looking at analog 2 and analog 5 last night and the interference was not bad. Channel 2 had some diagonal effect going on and Channel 5 had sparkles. I was able to get WBBM-DT with a heavily pixelated picture and not sound as well.

I think the bad interference on analog 2 and 5 and no signal on WBBM-DT occured when I had the CM065 connected to the VHF yagi with ~4 feet of twinlead. It is certainly possible that the CM065 and the twinlead were picking up the interference.

I was using 300ohm twinlead to avoid the balun loss because both the Philips and the CM065 have 300ohm inputs. I plan to replace the twinlead with RG6 quad shield and baluns this weekend when I have time to climb into the attic. I will update you all with the results.

Patrick

Hi Patrick,

Depending on how bad the interference is, quad shield may work, or it is not. If it is as bad as you say it is, it may not get rid of all of it. Still, as I said earlier, it will help.

Don't worry about the balun loss. ~2 dB down in your setup won't hurt. It's the interference that is killing you, and losing that will offset the signal loss.

Well, WPWR is at 720 and the signal (compared to Directv's Version of NFL Network HD) Looks BAD! Its douable but there is a noticable diffrence in quality. Im all about keeping the resoution to its original aired format. I still think WPWR should have been at 1080I for this game. But then again WPWR is partnered with fox, and fox has the worst OTA HD signals out of the big 4 (quality wise) when it comes to Live sports programming such as NFL and MLB. Thank god for the NFL network.

Well, WPWR is at 720 and the signal (compared to Directv's Version of NFL Network HD) Looks BAD! Its douable but there is a noticable diffrence in quality. Im all about keeping the resoution to its original aired format. I still think WPWR should have been at 1080I for this game. But then again WPWR is partnered with fox, and fox has the worst OTA HD signals out of the big 4 (quality wise) when it comes to Live sports programming such as NFL and MLB. Thank god for the NFL network.

Which is suprising since neither have subchannels so they should be throttled up all the way. Keep in mind OTA is limited to 19.393mb. Cable/satellite networks I believe are generally 20-45mb for bandwidth.

A general consensus is that 720p is better for sports due to the higher frame rate (60fps vs 30fps [2 fields] for 1080i.)

I'm the oddball:
I have viewed football at 720p60 and 1080i60 and I prefer the 1080i60 by far. The images just appear cleaner and crisper at 1080i (in general). Even though my TV is really displaying 1080p30, I dont miss the 30fps. You would think that missing 30 fps would be more obvious. Maybe its because the cameras are all 1080 anyways.

Finally, with Dish and DirecTV going to MPEG-4 boxes in the next year or two,
you cannot diplex those as Dish uses those frequencies. Definitely run a separate cable.

Would you please expand on this statement? I am currently using a Spaun Switch and SEW 120F diplexers in my distribution system, and am concerned.

Here are the specifications for the Spaun SEW 121 F Diplexer, which has replaced the SEW 120F:

To combine separate terrestrial signals 5 (47) ... 862 MHz and SAT IF signals 950 ... 2200 MHz

Technical data:

Through loss
- Terr.: 1,5 dB
- SAT: 2,5 ... 1,5 dB

Rejection
- Terr. / SAT: > 32 dB
- SAT / Terr.: > 32 dB

DC through path: max. 20 V / 1,5 A

Thanks for your time.

Mark

On DirecTV, the traditional MPEG2 Ku band channels use 1450-1650MHz while the new Ka band MPEG4 channels use the B section at 250-750MHz and the A section at 1650-2150MHz. The B band overlaps the 54-806MHz OTA band so cannot co-exist on the same cable. A wide band multiswitch is needed as well.

On DirecTV, the traditional MPEG2 Ku band channels use 1450-1650MHz while the new Ka band MPEG4 channels use the B section at 250-750MHz and the A section at 1650-2150MHz. The B band overlaps the 54-806MHz OTA band so cannot co-exist on the same cable. A wide band multiswitch is needed as well.

Thanks for the info. Any info about Dish Network? Similar frequencies used?

Mark

Cable/satellite networks I believe are generally 20-45mb for bandwidth.I think satellite is generally 10mb or under these days. The mpeg2 HD channels dropped to that a couple of years back (and were down-rezzed on top of it), and the SD channels are only like 6 or 8 at the very most. Nobody knows what the mpeg4 channels are at, since they apparently haven't found a way to measure them yet, but since they are more "efficient", they probably haven't been raised by much.

Heck, I'll bet a lot of that upconverted SD the mpeg4 "HD" channels show (and that's what the majority of it is) doesn't look all that much better than the SD channels did 8-10 years ago. And it probably costs twice as much, adjusted for inflation. What a racket. I'll never forget how impressed I was after really getting a good look at D* SD ten years ago staying at my dad's place in Wisc. for a couple of weeks. When I finally got E* about 3 years back, I was astonishedly upset at how terrible it looked. It even looked worse than the analog cable I had before it.

I heard a whisper of a rumor on a satellite forum that E* was going to switch all of their SD channels over to mpeg4 in the next couple of years. Don't know where the person heard it, but I wish they would, because any improvement would be welcome. I'll bet they'd pick up a lot more of cable's and D*'s SD subscribers if they did. That'd be a very wise move. If they timed it to coincide with when the majority of cable companies cut off expanded basic analog, that would even be smarter.

Even if they did raise the new channels a bit on Direct, you can be sure they will have those new birds overstuffed and looking like crap again in due time. It's only about quantity now, not quality (do we really need "east" and "west" versions of all those channels showing the same things at different times?).

Cable can be all over the place, but it's often at the same as OTA. But, even if they keep the same bandwith, they often rate-shape it and degrade it some.

I'm no engineer, but this is how I understand it just from hanging around this forum long enough.

I think satellite is generally 10mb or under these days. The mpeg2 HD channels dropped to that a couple of years back (and were down-rezzed on top of it), and the SD channels are only like 6 or 8 at the very most. Nobody know what the mpeg4 channels are at, since they haven't found a way to measure them yet, but since they are more "efficient", they probably hasn't been raised much, if any.

Heck, I'll bet a lot of that upconverted SD the mpeg4 channels show (and that's what most of it is) doesn't look all that much better than the SD channels did 8-10 years ago. And it probably costs twice as much, adjusted for inflation. What a racket. I'll never forget how impressed I was after really getting a good look at D* SD ten years ago staying at my dad's place in Wisc. for a couple of weeks. When I finally got E* about 3 years back, I was astonishedly upset at how terrible it looked. It even looked worse than the analog cable I had before it.

Even if they did raise the new channels a bit on Direct, you can be sure they will have those new birds overstuffed and looking like crap again in due time. It's only about quantity now, not quality (do we really need "east" and "west" versions of all those channels showing the same things at different times?).

Cable can be all over the place, but it's often at the same as OTA. But, even if they keep the same bandwith, they often rate-shape it and degrade it some.
Sorry I meant whats transmitted from the station themselves.

That is true. ;)

I live in a apartment building in Lincoln Park and my only option is an indoor antenna pointing at a wall. Am I right in thinking that since I have no line of sight, and that I am only 3 stories up that there is no way for me to get OTA HD in all likelyhood?

You don't need line of sight for OTA signals. For DBS signals you do, but not for OTA. They're two technologically different signals. OTA will pass through walls and the like. If you're in Lincoln Park, you should have NO problem getting a good signal, especially since (a) you're on the 3rd floor and (b) you're only a few miles away from the signals' source.

I dont know what Directv is running at, but I think its 5 mpeg 4 channels per transponder at full resolution. Dish is running 6-9mbps per channel at 6 per transponder at 1440 X 1080I (I can confirm that myself with TSREADER) At the rate that dish is running them it equals out to 12 -18 mbps Mpeg 2 if they were useing it.

KU band/Cband is running at Full resolution between 20 - 40 Mbps Per wild feeds. And they are BEAUTIFUL!. :) I just wish that I could pull in C band but I live in an apartment, but im working on a solution to that :D

On DirecTV, the traditional MPEG2 Ku band channels use 1450-1650MHz while the new Ka band MPEG4 channels use the B section at 250-750MHz and the A section at 1650-2150MHz. The B band overlaps the 54-806MHz OTA band so cannot co-exist on the same cable. A wide band multiswitch is needed as well.Thanks for the info. Any info about Dish Network? Similar frequencies used?Dish Network currently uses 1450-2150 MHz (DishPro and DishProPlus). Their older dishes (legacy) use 1450-1650 MHz. There are no issues with combining OTA and Dish Networks signals on the same cable (as long as you are using appropriate diplexers --- not the combiners/splitters that you find on the shelf in regular retail stores).

Well the quad shield coax did not help the situation. In fact the addition of 2 baluns (the preamp has 300 ohm input) completely killed the signal on channel 3. I guess the cheap baluns I used have a higher loss (or noise) than normal.

Mounting the antenna outside is not an option. Until Feb 2009 when WBBM-DT moves to VHF-HI, I will just have to settle for WBBM analog. The VHF antenna does a good job of picking up the VHF-HI analog channels. The VHF-LO analog channels have interference but they are watchable. The interference is only really noticible on my LCD TV. Not a replacement for satellite but it is nice to have for the sets without satellite boxes.

Wait a minute. The LCD has the worst interference? Could be something *inside* your home, such as a tool charger, fluorescent light, dimmer switch? Cell phone towers don't reansmit, typically, VHF-LO signals. Only UHF for the most part (including cell), or microwave. Occasionally they'll strap on a low-power FM translator or even small-coverage FM station, but the latter is rare.

Sorry I was not clear about that. The interference appears as diagonal lines on my analog tv. On the LCD TV the diagonal lines look like much worse. I described it as wavy before but now I see it is diagonal.

I agree that the cell tower must not be the culprit. I have compact florescent lights almost everywhere and many AC/DC converters including the one that powers the pre amp sitting within a few feet of the antenna in the attic. I will relocate the power supply to the other end of the cable to the basement and see if that helps. I will also try removing the compact florescents from the room under the antenna.

Thanks for all of the comments. You are a real help.

I have compact fluorescents everywhere, but no interference. Dimmer swicthes, however, kill WBBM. Actually, keep the preamp power supply there; that's where you want it. If any interference occurs between the pramp and the powered part of it, the strength of the amp should help alleviate any problem.

On the other hand, I also have a DSL modem which messes up my UHF reception. Turn it off, and poof! "Hum bars" on my weak UHF analog signals disappear.

You know what...if you really want to be bold and go for it...

Keep the circuits on in your house that power your preamp and TV. Now,
in the switch/fuse box in your basement (or wherever), turn everything else OFF. Now, see if the interference is there. If it is, then:

1. It's outside your home
2. It's connected to that wall outlet

I had to do that with one of my friends, and he discovered to his surprise that one of his dining room cabinet lights was actually on a dimmer switch. He turns it off now to lock WBBM from Hoffman Estates. When it's on, he gets bad interference on analog 2 and digital 3.

All of this is mounted in the attic and I am using preamps for both antennas. I still have problems with WBBM. I only really get it at night and breaks up continuously.
I see a lot of interference on analog channel 2 and 5.

Put the VHF antenna outside - this should greatly improve your signal to interference ratio, and you'll should see a big improvement on WBBM-DT.
Attic mounting reduces low-VHF pickup by at least half - that's why you're seeing so much interference. You may even find that a preamp is no longer needed.

No problem! Yes, it sounds like your reception problems from Rockford is simple: too MUCH signal, and your tuner can't handle the overload. I suggest you point it away from Rockford at an angle and find a sweet spot that picks up enough signal to get what you want.

Yes, MNTV 50 (WPWR-DT 51.1, resolves to 50.1) will carry the game this Thursday. Analog and digital will be tough for you because: 1. WBUW-DT broadcasts digitally from Madison on 50, and 2. WCFC-CA from Rockford broadcasts analog on 51 at low power. But if you use a highly directional antenna and if the winds are light and you are high enough, you have a shot at it. Let us know if you can get it Thursday night (either digital or analog).

I didn't have much luck picking up WPWR DT, the analog WPWR had no audio but I could see an outline of the players. I could pick-up ABC7 decent and WGN9 ok but that was about it for Chicago.
I listened to the Bears on WBBM 780AM and had the TV on WPWR but the TV was a couple of seconds ahead of the radio so I could tell when something big happend but could quite tell who or what.
Is the Bears Vikings game going to be aired OTA? I thought I've heard before that WCIU aired some ESPN games.

I didn't have much luck picking up WPWR DT, the analog WPWR had no audio but I could see an outline of the players. I could pick-up ABC7 decent and WGN9 ok but that was about it for Chicago.
I listened to the Bears on WBBM 780AM and had the TV on WPWR but the TV was a couple of seconds ahead of the radio so I could tell when something big happend but could quite tell who or what.
Is the Bears Vikings game going to be aired OTA? I thought I've heard before that WCIU aired some ESPN games.

Sorry that it didn't work out for you, but nearly 100 miles away, that'll happen. Or not happen...especially with another station interfering.

Yes, Bears/Vikings is going to be on OTA. ESPN will be carrying the game, and therefore WLS-TV has first right of refusal. I would guess they will carry it, but we shall see. If not, it goes to another full-power station that bids highest.

Hello, fellow Chicago OTA fans. When analog shuts down I think I'll be in good shape for all the local broadcasts. I have researched on this site from day one of my OTA HDTV involvement and have found much information. Thank you all...
All of my UHF is caught by my DIY DB4 4 bay bowtie from 60-90% signal strength, using RG6 Quad shielded, combined with a inexpensive UVSJ combiner to a AntennaCraft Y5-2-6 Yagi VHF Low antenna with a boost from a Pico Macom MCM-201T 20db VHF pre-amp mounted up in the attic 50' from the Samsung DLP, approx. 38 miles from the towers downtown Chicago. I was getting WBBM-DT 2.1 locked with 25% or so signal strength with drop outs only when the appliances (microwave, blender,CFL's etc.) were turned on. But now with this Pico amp mounted on the mast in the attic no drop outs and a boost of 10% signal strength on WBBM-DT and a noticeable improvement on all the VHF High band channels which I know will still be in use for HDTV after the analog shutdown in 2009. :D

I didn't have much luck picking up WPWR DT, the analog WPWR had no audio but I could see an outline of the players. I could pick-up ABC7 decent and WGN9 ok but that was about it for Chicago.
I listened to the Bears on WBBM 780AM and had the TV on WPWR but the TV was a couple of seconds ahead of the radio so I could tell when something big happend but could quite tell who or what.
Is the Bears Vikings game going to be aired OTA? I thought I've heard before that WCIU aired some ESPN games.

The Bears/Vikings will be on ABC 7.

Hello, fellow Chicago OTA fans. When analog shuts down I think I'll be in good shape for all the local broadcasts. I have researched on this site from day one of my OTA HDTV involvement and have found much information. Thank you all...
All of my UHF is caught by my DIY DB4 4 bay bowtie from 60-90% signal strength, using RG6 Quad shielded, combined with a inexpensive UVSJ combiner to a AntennaCraft Y5-2-6 Yagi VHF Low antenna with a boost from a Pico Macom MCM-201T 20db VHF pre-amp mounted up in the attic 50' from the samsung DLP, approx. 38 miles from the towers downtown Chicago. I was getting WBBM-DT 2.1 locked with 25% or so signal strength with drop outs only when the appliances (microwave, blender,CFL's etc.) were turned on. But now with is Pico amp mounted on the mast in the attic no drop outs and a boost of 10% signal strength on WBBM-DT and a noticeable improvement on all the VHF High band channels which I know will still be in use for HDTV after the analog shutdown in 2009. :D


Actually, you may not be after February 2009. When WLS goes back to 7, and WBBM heads to 12, that channel 2-6 yagi isn't going to pick up 7 through 13. If you want to foolproof yourself, get the channel 7-13 companion to that and have it ready. Then you'll be fine.

BTW, the full metal screen does your homemade antenna do better than a DB4, or even a ChannelMaster 4221, which explains why you lock UHF so well. Nice job! I have a Channelmaster 4228 on a rotor with aluminum foil on it.
It really locks the stations in!

Actually, you may not be after February 2009. When WLS goes back to 7, and WBBM heads to 12, that channel 2-6 yagi isn't going to pick up 7 through 13. If you want to foolproof yourself, get the channel 7-13 companion to that and have it ready. Then you'll be fine.

BTW, the full metal screen does your homemade antenna do better than a DB4, or even a ChannelMaster 4221, which explains why you lock UHF so well. Nice job! I have a Channelmaster 4228 on a rotor with aluminum foil on it.
It really locks the stations in!

I did say I receive VHF High band 7-13 analog just fine also one digital channel WWTO-DT 35.1 on VHF channel 10 from Lasalle, IL 133* west of my Y5-2-6's direction. The Yagi isn't 100% efficient with VHF high band but I would say at least 80% of the signal it catches. As long as they broadcast there digital with at least there analog output I should be fine.:eek:

I did say I receive VHF High band 7-13 analog just fine also one digital channel WWTO-DT 35.1 on VHF channel 10 from Lasalle, IL 133* west of my Y5-2-6's direction. The Yagi isn't 100% efficient with VHF high band but I would say at least 80% of the signal it catches. As long as they broadcast there digital with at least there analog output I should be fine.:eek:

Hi Wireman,

Oops, yes you did; sorry, I confused with another post. But I am impressed with that yagi. Actually, someone else who has a 2-6 yagi also said he does OK with 7-13. I wouldn't recommend doing it that way, but I'm glad it works!

Good news. I finally have WBBM locked in with ~17db signal to noise according to the receiver. I put the VHF-LO yagi as high as possible in the attic. This put it about 3 feet above the electrical conduit in the attic. Before it was only about 1 foot above the electical conduit. I also made sure the FM trap was in on the amplifier. Finally I removed about 12 compact flourescents from the rooms directly under the antenna. Thanks for all of the suggestions.

BTW The AntennaCraft Y5-2-6 does an OK job pulling digital channel 10 as well as analog channels 7, 9 and 11.

Just out of curiosity, what happens when you put the compact fluorescents back in? That extra two feet helped you...

Good news. I finally have WBBM locked in with ~17db signal to noise according to the receiver. I put the VHF-LO yagi as high as possible in the attic. This put it about 3 feet above the electrical conduit in the attic. Before it was only about 1 foot above the electical conduit. I also made sure the FM trap was in on the amplifier. Finally I removed about 12 compact flourescents from the rooms directly under the antenna. Thanks for all of the suggestions.

BTW The AntennaCraft Y5-2-6 does an OK job pulling digital channel 10 as well as analog channels 7, 9 and 11.

Hello, pgartung. Did you see my updated pictures and adjust your Y5-2-6 accordingly. This VHF Low band is the bomb in a limited sized budget and or attic installation. I got the Yagi for WBBM-DT 2.1 only because it was the only HD channel on VHF band and it fit in my attic. Knowing it will work for the VHF High band I have no need to change my configuration.

Cheers,:) to the Analog shutdown.

Hopefully, the lower power of WBBM won't affect you when they move to 12.

Hopefully, the lower power of WBBM won't affect you when they move to 12.

WBBM-DT is slated to output 13kw on channel 12. It should be much easier to catch in 2009... Wouldn't you agree?:p

Hi all,

So I've been trying over the last couple of weeks to get any OTAHD antenna mounted on my house but, no one seems to want to or think they can do the install. The installation techs (very reputable company I'm told..was referred by 2 companies) that were over yesterday said that I didn't have a good pitch to install the tripod; that pitch would need a tripod that had different-sized legs. Not to mention, the roof is over 30 feet in the air so, there was some hesitency there as well. Does anyone know of a product that would work on a non-traditional pitched roof? I cannot do a chimney install so my only other choice is the attic space that we have. Unfortunately, the attic space cannot fit a 7082P because the antenna is too wide due to the VHF elements. The installers that were out suggested getting a UHF only antenna. I understand that I would need to forego CBS but, can anyone recommend a UHF only antenna for me that is nicely sized and that would be suitable for Elmhurst, for which I am 13 miles and 89 degress from the Sears Tower.

Your help on these issues and any other suggestions would be greatly appreciated.

Thanks,

John


I suggest you get a V4 MKII from Antennas Direct (www.antennasdirect.com) or from Solid Signal (www.solidsignal.com). It's small enough to fit in most attics. I've got one with a Channel Master 7777 in my attic. I'm 35 miles away (Aurora/Naperville) and I can pick up all the Chicago stations including WBBM-DT (Ch. 2.1 on 3).

Dan (Woj...)[/QUOTE]

If you can fit a 80" boom length the AntennaCraft Y5-2-6 is only $23 at Solid Signal and make a 4 bay like this here:http://uhfhdtvantenna.blogspot.com/

Hello all,

I tuned into WLS after their 9 PM show started (don't know what it was) and noticed that the picture, for lack of a better term, was stuttering badly. Jumpy, missing/dropping frames, whatever you want to call it, it looked ugly. Audio was fine. Anyone else see this? 7.2/7.3 were fine, as was analog 7. This is received OTA from DeKalb, downconverted to 480i on a 3rd gen Zenith tuner.

Hello all,

I tuned into WLS after their 9 PM show started (don't know what it was) and noticed that the picture, for lack of a better term, was stuttering badly. Jumpy, missing/dropping frames, whatever you want to call it, it looked ugly. Audio was fine. Anyone else see this? 7.2/7.3 were fine, as was analog 7. This is received OTA from DeKalb, downconverted to 480i on a 3rd gen Zenith tuner.

Been going on less severely for a couple of weeks now.

Hello all,

I tuned into WLS after their 9 PM show started (don't know what it was) and noticed that the picture, for lack of a better term, was stuttering badly. Jumpy, missing/dropping frames, whatever you want to call it, it looked ugly. Audio was fine. Anyone else see this? 7.2/7.3 were fine, as was analog 7. This is received OTA from DeKalb, downconverted to 480i on a 3rd gen Zenith tuner.

I certainly feel better now that this is happening to someone else besides me. :D I was beginning to think it was my TV. My Olevia 537H is doing this too. What's weird is that my two LG tuners (3410 & 3510) and a really old Samsung tuner don't have the stuttering problem. And it only happens during certain shows. The news looks fine.

Last week it was really bad, totally unwatchable. So I called WLS and spoke with one of their engineers. He said they had recently switched over to a new encoder but that I was the first to report the stuttering. He was kind enough to switch back to the old encoder for the night to see if that fixed the problem. It did and I called him back to let him know. They must have switched back to the new encoder because I have been seeing the problem again during the past few days. Since others are seeing this too, I will call him back tomorrow and let him know. He does not monitor the forum.

I certainly feel better now that this is happening to someone else besides me. :D I was beginning to think it was my TV. My Olevia 537H is doing this too. What's weird is that my two LG tuners (3410 & 3510) and a really old Samsung tuner don't have the stuttering problem. And it only happens during certain shows. The news looks fine.

Last week it was really bad, totally unwatchable. So I called WLS and spoke with one of their engineers. He said they had recently switched over to a new encoder but that I was the first to report the stuttering. He was kind enough to switch back to the old encoder for the night to see if that fixed the problem. It did and I called him back to let him know. They must have switched back to the new encoder because I have been seeing the problem again during the past few days. Since others are seeing this too, I will call him back tomorrow and let him know. He does not monitor the forum.


Thanks, Veets, I appreciate it! Keep us posted.

Ice, ice baby! What happens when:

1. You're an engineer at a TV station in Oklahoma City...
2. You have had an unholy amount of freezing rain---at least 2"...
3. The ice starts to melt off your tower...
4. And you have a video camera?

This! (warning...foul language ahead)

http://my.break.com/Content/view.aspx?ContentID=416218

No AVSforum members were hurt in the making of this video. But they could have been if they weren't careful!

And you DON'T want to know what would happen if those 100 POUND chunks of ice hit a guy wire! At the station I used to work for, we had the same thing happen. You really had to be careful, or you could be killed walking across the parking lot as ice buildup on the tower was melting!

We once dropped a 2ghz mesh antenna off our tower (in South Bend) from 165' that was a solid block of ice. The antenna survived but the ice didn't. :D

Wow that crazy! Where's the HD camera when you need it! LOL

I noticed that the ATSC tuner in my Philips HDTV does way better than my stand alone tuner on WBBM-DT. While WBBM-DT has no sound and is constantly braking up on the stand alone tuner, the sound is fine and only a few glitches per minutes on the Philips HDTV tuner. The stand alone tuner is a ProBrand HD3150Plus purchased used off of ebay. I am not sure how old it is. The Philips HDTV was purchased new two years ago. Does the age of the tuner matter for DTV reception?

I bought the stand alone tuner to use with my DVD recorder. The Philips HDTV does not provide a down converted output from its internal tuner. I guess I will have to purchase a new stand alone tuner to work with my DVD recorder or get a new DVD recorder with a built in DTV tuner in order to record shows off of CBS.

Newer tuners handle multipath alot better. Judging by your listed location it is definately possible you have multipath problems with WBBM.

Motivated by this thread I have purchased 2 antennas to try out with my new HDTV.

The first antenna I tried was the Terk TV5. My initial impression was sweet I can actually get OTA HD in Lincoln Park (having naively assuming it wasn't an option earlier). Then after messing around with it for a weekend I grew dissatisfied with the spotty, stuttering signal.

After reading many glowing reviews I ordered the Antennas Direct DB2 from Amazon. Re-scanning for channels resulted in 2 more channels one of which was WMAQ-DT which is pretty cool. The DB2 was a pretty decent upgrade but I was still not entirely satisfied. Even walking around my tiny apartment seemed like it was disrupting the signal.

The DB2 can however be easily mounted to a pole, I was able to fix the shakey signal by simply raising it up on the pvc pipe I had it mounted to. This resulted in a really solid signal and now I get all the important channels with hardly any stuttering.

Now if I could only get ESPN HD OTA...

Two words: Silver Sensor.

'Nuff said.

I guess I will have to purchase a new stand alone tuner to work with my DVD recorder or get a new DVD recorder with a built in DTV tuner in order to record shows off of CBS.The ATSC tuner in the Philips DVR3575H HDD/DVD recorder is excellent, performance-wise.

Picture quality-wise, though, you'd get slightly better results from using a Samsung DTB-H260F tuner with your recorder.

But otherwise, I'd say they perform about equally.

(If you're interested, the Philips can be found at www.circuitcity.com for $289.99.)

Universal remote help. I realize this is not Chicago OTA related but you guys are excellent at product suggestions

I am looking for a $100+/- universal remote that is easy to setup and control.

Hardware : LG42PB4D plasma with built in DVR for OTA HD
Directv R15
LG DVD/VHS Combo
Onkyo SR_304 ? Receiver

Universal remote help. I realize this is not Chicago OTA related but you guys are excellent at product suggestions

I am looking for a $100+/- universal remote that is easy to setup and control.

Hardware : LG42PB4D plasma with built in DVR for OTA HD
Directv R15
LG DVD/VHS Combo
Onkyo SR_304 ? Receiver

Harmony remotes. You'll love them, guaranteed!

Right now, Amazon's got the Harmony 880 on sale for $129.00, and you can get a 10% rebate from Logitech simply by entering their "Bundle Up" sweepstakes (no catch).

Trust me on the 880, though. It controls EVERYTHING I have, which consists of 6 components in my home theater setup.

If you've got a Sam's Club membership, they've got one of the "peanut-shaped" models for 90 or 100 bucks right now.

Sony also makes an internet programmable model around that price that looks pretty good. I think CC carries it.

I have a harmony 880 and love it. it is programmable by the internet!

What is up with WYIN. It seems like they have been having problems all day and have been mostly off air. Im getting a black screen here, and WYIN DT seems to be not on the air, also.

Thanks for your help on the remote.

I need a Directv hardware update from you guys. Has anyone tried / bought a new hd/dvr and successfully integrated OTA signal as it says it will. I heard early on of software issues that would not allow it.

Thanks for you help!

I have an HR 20, wich works fine. The only thing is you need a seprate line for OTA and you cant use a Diplexer. The B band that the new channels are on uses the same frequancy as ota so it would conflict. Im Down here in Manteno with a Channelmaster 4228 and a CM 7777preamp. I get everything maxed out like crazy (yea I know I like overkill) Including WYCC wich was luding me for the longest time. The only thing that I have against me is the lack of highth that I can put the anteanna at due to me living in an apartment building. Channel 7 looks great and all the DTV stations are at 100% Now the only issue i have is when some one parks infront of the thing my signal gets cut like crazy and i loose wycc and wciu.

Does anyone know when WBBM will similcast to digital 12. Any way to get them to do it like within the next few weeks. I think im all set for 2009, and now I wait!

Thanks for your help on the remote.

I need a Directv hardware update from you guys. Has anyone tried / bought a new hd/dvr and successfully integrated OTA signal as it says it will. I heard early on of software issues that would not allow it.

Thanks for you help!Just be sure to get the HR20. The HR21 doesn't have an OTA tuner. Maybe that's what you heard.

The Bears/Vikings will be on ABC 7.

Thank you for the information. The conditions must have been favorable as around 6:30pm WLS-DT was in and out, by 7:15 I was getting WLS-DT in just fine all the way untill the 4th quarter when for some reason it started to come in and out so I had to watch the analog. At least I got to watch the game, again that you for the help and information.

PBS is coming to Directv, Is there any chance that WTTW will stop bitstarving their HD channel?? Or give the HD feed to WYCC, so they can display Real HD content at a bitrate that doesnt squeeze the cheese from the mouse? :)

PBS is coming to Directv, Is there any chance that WTTW will stop bitstarving their HD channel??

Not while they're running three subchannels.

Not while they're running three subchannels.

you mean four!

Does anyone know when WBBM will similcast to digital 12. Any way to get them to do it like within the next few weeks. I think im all set for 2009, and now I wait!

Yep, after February 17, 2009. Given the antenna is ready to go, it should be very soon afterwards.

you mean four!

Nope, three subchannels. the main one (11-1), and then three subs (11-2 through 11-4).

Speaking of PBS and subs, WYCC is having a dog of a time with 20-3. Last I checked, it was down, and is down often.

We will have to wait almost 7 weeks until WTTWD broadcasts The NewsHour with Jim Lehrer in HD. I received this reply from the Member and Viewer Services Department today:

We plan to start airing it at 5pm beginning February 4 due to technical issues.

We will have to wait almost 7 weeks until WTTWD broadcasts The NewsHour with Jim Lehrer in HD. I received this reply from the Member and Viewer Services Department today:

We plan to start airing it at 5pm beginning February 4 due to technical issues. Thanks for the update. WTTW never bothered to answer me after I inquired immediately upon learning that the NewsHour was going HD :mad:.

Wonder if February 4 coincides with a membership drive... :rolleyes:

Thought I'd never really miss that sweet spot where our chimney mount used to be until today, now that some of the stations really could use that 10% strength that I lost in the move. Multipath be darned... In the past month I've noticed that certain channels have become noticeably attenuated when the temperature drops into the low 20's or less, but today's wind really makes it profound. Nobody ever tells you how to adjust for the cold weather difference when you're setting up an antenna and it's 60 degrees outside at the time, so I remain clueless...

The signals today look like this:
WBBM-3 94%, normal as it usually is
WMAQ-29 80-85%, down 10% from normal, lost that last 'bar' on the meter
WLS-52 65-low 70's%, down 10-15% from normal but doesn't break up
WGN-19 85-90%, normal as it usually is
WTTW-47 80-85%, down 5% from normal but otherwise seems fine
WYCC-21 70-75%, down 10-15% from normal and subject to some break up
WCIU-27 60-70%, down 15-20% from normal with break up really noticeable
WFLD-31 80-85%, down 5% from normal but otherwise seems fine
WCPX-43 60-70%, down 15-20% from normal with break up really noticeable
WSNS-45 80-85%, down 5% from normal but otherwise seems fine
WPWR-51 80-85%, down 5% from normal but otherwise seems fine
WXFT-59 60-70%, normal signal strength in current antenna position
WGBO-53 60-70%, normal signal strength in current antenna position

I never thought I'd get shaky reception on any of the majors with the 7084 antenna, but this cold weather compounded with the concurrent wind/multipath and humidity issues, it seems to be really getting socked. I wonder how the rest of you are doing this time of year.

Regards and Happy Holidays to all.

Thought I'd never really miss that sweet spot where our chimney mount used to be until today, now that some of the stations really could use that 10% strength that I lost in the move. Multipath be darned... In the past month I've noticed that certain channels have become noticeably attenuated when the temperature drops into the low 20's or less, but today's wind really makes it profound. Nobody ever tells you how to adjust for the cold weather difference when you're setting up an antenna and it's 60 degrees outside at the time, so I remain clueless...

The signals today look like this:
WBBM-3 94%, normal as it usually is
WMAQ-29 80-85%, down 10% from normal, lost that last 'bar' on the meter
WLS-52 65-low 70's%, down 10-15% from normal but doesn't break up
WGN-19 85-90%, normal as it usually is
WTTW-47 80-85%, down 5% from normal but otherwise seems fine
WYCC-21 70-75%, down 10-15% from normal and subject to some break up
WCIU-27 60-70%, down 15-20% from normal with break up really noticeable
WFLD-31 80-85%, down 5% from normal but otherwise seems fine
WCPX-43 60-70%, down 15-20% from normal with break up really noticeable
WSNS-45 80-85%, down 5% from normal but otherwise seems fine
WPWR-51 80-85%, down 5% from normal but otherwise seems fine
WXFT-59 60-70%, normal signal strength in current antenna position
WGBO-53 60-70%, normal signal strength in current antenna position

I never thought I'd get shaky reception on any of the majors with the 7084 antenna, but this cold weather compounded with the concurrent wind/multipath and humidity issues, it seems to be really getting socked. I wonder how the rest of you are doing this time of year.

Regards and Happy Holidays to all.

Hey Long,

Any chance you could check analog from it? It sounds like:

1. A wire is loose
2. There are nearby trees producing dynamic multipath, which tuners cannot handle unless the signal is really strong, or you have a 5th and preferably 6th generation tuner

I suspect it's #2; I think you told us you have to shoot through or near a tree to get reception. That'll most definitely cause a problem in these winds. Last night, we had a lot of trouble with the 50 degree weather because of a temperature inversion. I lost a couple of channels because of that (WREX-DT 54/13.1 Rockford and WJYS-DT 36/62.1).

Outside of that, wind should not be an issue, and on cold days, if you are closer in, reception should get better. Wait until the winds calm down tomorrow and see what happens.

By the way, I did an install on the east side of DeKalb with a guy who has a new TV with a 6th generation tuner. He locks WBBM-DT with 3.5 bars out of 4, and only rarely sees impulse signal dropouts. Being out in the country and somewhat away from power lines helps him a ton, though. As the crow flies, he is 56 miles from the Hancock.

Hey Gilbert,

Just checked the analog. All the VHF is crystal clear, but the UHF has some fuzz on practically every channel there which I didn't notice two months ago. Today each UHF station has a similar moving interference pattern present, probably some kind of multipath and hopefully not due to something more profound...

In the past month I've noticed signal loss on WLS, WCIU, and WCPX when the temp dropped below 25, but if wind is not an issue, they would generally maintain a steady lock in the 65-70% range with no drop out. I have a clear shot to absolutely nothing, and it makes for somewhat unpredictable UHF reception I guess. I have found that even some of the strongest UHF stations would experience an occasional hiccup which you would only notice if you kept the signal meter on long enough, up to two or three bars going out then coming back in and then everything's good again for a while. Today however, I noticed some of this behavior on WMAQ, which up to now has been unwavering on this antenna, second only to WBBM. Ironically, the 7084 is a champ at pulling in WBBM; it will lock that signal at 75% with the thing pointing skywards, as I unfortunately found out a few months ago. I very very rarely see BBM go below 80% or lose any bars ever, and it's by far the most steady one on there, usually 90-94% and holding, but unfortunately the rest on UHF doesn't quite hold like that. Even WPWR has been a little weaker at times - yet today it's as strong as ever, for reasons I can't explain. You could say I'm kind of interested to see how WWME-LD makes it out here at its low power on UHF - if some of the 100+ kw majors are wimping out on me, I don't know how 39 is going to cut it at a hundred times less. I'm thinking maybe in the summer on a nice day I can possibly lock it at the half way point, but in the middle of a winter storm it's probably going to be anybody's guess. Or maybe I'm due for a new generation tuner (a rooftop visit ain't gonna happen right now for obvious reasons).

Regards

Hey Gilbert,

Just checked the analog. All the VHF is crystal clear, but the UHF has some fuzz on practically every channel there which I didn't notice two months ago. Today each UHF station has a similar moving interference pattern present, probably some kind of multipath and hopefully not due to something more profound...

In the past month I've noticed signal loss on WLS, WCIU, and WCPX when the temp dropped below 25, but if wind is not an issue, they would generally maintain a steady lock in the 65-70% range with no drop out. I have a clear shot to absolutely nothing, and it makes for somewhat unpredictable UHF reception I guess. I have found that even some of the strongest UHF stations would experience an occasional hiccup which you would only notice if you kept the signal meter on long enough, up to two or three bars going out then coming back in and then everything's good again for a while. Today however, I noticed some of this behavior on WMAQ, which up to now has been unwavering on this antenna, second only to WBBM. Ironically, the 7084 is a champ at pulling in WBBM; it will lock that signal at 75% with the thing pointing skywards, as I unfortunately found out a few months ago. I very very rarely see BBM go below 80% or lose any bars ever, and it's by far the most steady one on there, usually 90-94% and holding, but unfortunately the rest on UHF doesn't quite hold like that. Even WPWR has been a little weaker at times - yet today it's as strong as ever, for reasons I can't explain. You could say I'm kind of interested to see how WWME-LD makes it out here at its low power on UHF - if some of the 100+ kw majors are wimping out on me, I don't know how 39 is going to cut it at a hundred times less. I'm thinking maybe in the summer on a nice day I can possibly lock it at the half way point, but in the middle of a winter storm it's probably going to be anybody's guess. Or maybe I'm due for a new generation tuner (a rooftop visit ain't gonna happen right now for obvious reasons).

Regards


That "moving interference pattern" is your problem! It's not the weather or connections. It's difficult to generate UHF interference. It sounds electrical...can you do a snapshot and post it on here? If it's not snow, it's got to be something. Does it get worse as you head up the dial towards 51?
Are all the connections behind your TV solid (wiggle them on an analog UHF station; stuff like that shows up very well there)? You shouldn't be getting that. And if it's not breaking up, the problem is in the house somewhere. Have someone stand by the TV and wiggle the wires good by each connector. If you get picture breakup, you have found one problem. Check them all...sounds like a bad/loose connector to me. If you get that problem fixed, then you should get WWME-LD with that antenna and amplifier. When WQRF-DT FOX Rockford was at 2.3 kw at 600', people were locking them 40 miles away. 30 miles away, I was locking them with my ChannelMaster 4228 pointed towards Chicago! BTW, it looks like they aren't going to make the 1/1/08 time frame that they hoped. Of course, if the winds are gusting at 50 MPH at ground level, going to the bathroom tonight in the engineering floors of the Sears must be like going to the bathroom in an airplane!

Looks like I have another antenna job to do this spring. One of my friends lost his last night, in a thundersnow with 70 MPH, winds, followed by 55 MPH measured gusts this morning. After years of being hit with numerous 80-100 MPH winds, being literally at the edge of a tornado...it gave up the ghost on this one with broken rods all over.
But the mast and the 30' tower is fine. Still, what a storm!

Checked the connectors inside the house; they're all tight. It may be an electrical problem, but if it were I would think that VHF would be the first to be affected unless you have any idea as to what would affect UHF only. Both leads experience the same type of analog UHF interference that I could only describe as many little horizontal lines moving rapidly upward, along with a much slower moving thick vertical line which goes from right to left and then eventually repeats. It's about the same across all the major UHF channels. Unfortunately I don't have the analog set up on the PC so I can't upload a picture. What I can say is that when the 7084 was placed in its last position, the UHF was as clear as the VHF, but it was also 60 degrees outside at the time. I can't figure out what else might be causing the UHF issue except for maybe a loose connector on the outside or a bad mast pre-amp or maybe moisture-affect with regard to the unit, neither of which I can safely inspect or address until spring. However, when we were in the 40's yesterday, reception was great at the time, so I don't know that this deficit will be reproducible when the weather does infact get better. For now I think I will let sleeping dogs lie.

Thanks for your insight, and have a Happy Holiday.

Holy Crap A Car Just Crashed Into Abc7's Studios Live While The News Was On Air! I Cant Make This One Up. I Have The Dvr Recording It In Hd. !!!!



http://abclocal.go.com/wls/story?section=news/local&id=5852858

I TIVO'd it and will have to check it out!

Checked the connectors inside the house; they're all tight. It may be an electrical problem, but if it were I would think that VHF would be the first to be affected unless you have any idea as to what would affect UHF only. Both leads experience the same type of analog UHF interference that I could only describe as many little horizontal lines moving rapidly upward, along with a much slower moving thick vertical line which goes from right to left and then eventually repeats. It's about the same across all the major UHF channels. Unfortunately I don't have the analog set up on the PC so I can't upload a picture. What I can say is that when the 7084 was placed in its last position, the UHF was as clear as the VHF, but it was also 60 degrees outside at the time. I can't figure out what else might be causing the UHF issue except for maybe a loose connector on the outside or a bad mast pre-amp or maybe moisture-affect with regard to the unit, neither of which I can safely inspect or address until spring. However, when we were in the 40's yesterday, reception was great at the time, so I don't know that this deficit will be reproducible when the weather does infact get better. For now I think I will let sleeping dogs lie.

Thanks for your insight, and have a Happy Holiday.

AHA! The vertical line moving from right to left is a dead giveaway of your problem---you now have too MUCH signal! Can you grab an attenuator/ Even if you put in a two-way splitter somewhere, that could cause enough signal loss to correct the problem.

It also explains why you are getting it only on UHF...your amp is boosting UHF signals more strongly.

Holy Crap A Car Just Crashed Into Abc7's Studios Live While The News Was On Air! I Cant Make This One Up. I Have The Dvr Recording It In Hd. !!!!

http://abclocal.go.com/wls/story?section=news/local&id=5852858

Those doggone Packer fans... :eek: :D

Seriously, I am glad everyone in the studio is OK. I missed it, but caught the live newscast towards the end and Ravi's stand-up next to the van. Somebody put this on YouTube!

Indeed. We eliminate them from home field advantage and what do those cheese heads do? They crash through our top-rated HD news studio! Dem bastids!

Can anybody get the video to work? I tried both Firefox and IE7 (using Vista), and all I get is a spinning blue circle, and no network activity.

Thanks again for the analysis, Gilbert.

Do you know where I could find a good attenuator these days? One to put by each TV. Something tells me that the Shack may not have it any more.

Can anybody get the video to work? I tried both Firefox and IE7 (using Vista), and all I get is a spinning blue circle, and no network activity.

I had to turn off my ad blocker in order to see the video work. I use Ad Muncher and it was blocking the Disney commercial that plays first.

There was good VHF propagation going on this morning on my train ride in. Anybody lock onto something good?

Thanks again for the analysis, Gilbert.

Do you know where I could find a good attenuator these days? One to put by each TV. Something tells me that the Shack may not have it any more.

See if they do...and if not, they may be able to order it. If not...

http://www.antennasdirect.com/attenuator.html

There was good VHF propagation going on this morning on my train ride in. Anybody lock onto something good?

I didn't know Metra allowed VHF propogation on board trains these days! :D :p

Nah, nothing out here.

Can anybody get the video to work? I tried both Firefox and IE7 (using Vista), and all I get is a spinning blue circle, and no network activity.

The link has changed anyway. Try this:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O2F7pfk16yY

I didn't know Metra allowed VHF propogation on board trains these days! :D :p

Nah, nothing out here.

LOL. Could you just picture a big Channelmaster mounted on the front???? :eek: I have a 26" telescoping antenna suction cupped to the window that I use with my scanner. It works great in the upper VHF band and I was hearing trains all the way up in Wilmette. (Which I never hear!)

Any engeneer types out there... LOL hey have any of you setup a braudcast server and is it easy to do? I know how to set up various servers running linux and windows, I was wondering how diffrent it would be than setting up an internet server.

Any engeneer types out there... LOL hey have any of you setup a braudcast server and is it easy to do? I know how to set up various servers running linux and windows, I was wondering how diffrent it would be than setting up an internet server.
It has its goods and bads. What exactly are you looking to do?

LOL. Could you just picture a big Channelmaster mounted on the front???? :eek:

I know METRA used to have an "Ask Metra" publication. If it still is going, put in a request! :D


I have a 26" telescoping antenna suction cupped to the window that I use with my scanner.

Well, if I ever ride METRA in a morning rush hour, and when I see someone doing that, I'll just pass right on by without saying hello, since so many have suction-cupped antennas and scanners with them on the ride in, it'll be hard to tell if its you... :p:D

Back on December 19, 2007, I had the unexpected opportunity to install an HDTV for a fellow church member on the far northeast side of DeKalb. A few months earlier, to improve his reception and prepare him "someday" for an over-the-air digital converter box, I added a ChannelMaster 7777 preamplifier. He has a VHF/UHF Winegard combo antenna on a 30' tower using RG-6 cable except for a 2' RG-59 jumper; it's about 15 years old, and only the VHF portion of the antenna is used. It's diplexed with a ChannelMaster 4228 UHF antenna, installed at the same time, pointed at Rockford. I warned him: with all but two Chicago stations currently on UHF, and with the UHF antenna pointed at Rockford, most Chicago stations won't come in. And, WBBM-DT will be a no-show until 2009, and WWTO-DT from Utica, IL on channel 10 (just southeast of Starved Rock State Park) won't come in, because he is due north of the station by 45 miles, with the antenna pointed east towards Chicago. He can also lock PSIP on Milwaukee's FOX station on channel 33, even with a low power 33 in Rockford (and the antenna pointed at Rockford, of course)!

What I didn't know was that he decided to buy an HDTV that I recommended to him with an apparent 6th generation tuner. And after a Bible study, I found myself up late into the evening putting in the TV, and then checking out the reception, which blew me away!

From ~55 miles out, he has a rock-solid lock on WBBM-DT. When I mean rock-solid, the signal strength is 4 bars out of 4 on his new Initial brand HDTV! He has NO impulse noise breakups, except during a thunderstorm on December 22nd, when they occurred "one every great once in a while". And 3.5 bars out of 4 on WWTO-DT! All Rockford and most Chicago stations come in, but he cannot lock WYCC-DT and WCIU-DT. This is from major analog interference from two high-powered analogs in Madison, WI causing the inability to lock. He can lock all the other Chicago stations just fine.

Then, I got a report this morning from another gentleman who did an HD install near Elburn. With lots of electrical interference and snow on WBBM-TV analog, he, too, was still able to lock in WBBM-DT solid! It reportedly left him amazed, to say the least!

Up until now, I haven't had experience with 6th gen tuners, but had heard of their extreme sensitivity. Most DTV tuners need a signal to noise ratio of 20:1 to have a solid lock; go down to 19:1, and the picture breaks up. 15.7:1 is the theoretical limit, and these tuners reportedly go right up to it! This is not trivial: the improvement from signal reception alone is 66%+! Plus, the tuner chip features slightly to somewhat improved performance from interference and multipath, causing an even greater improvement! Those of you who are thinking about getting a second or third HDTV or your first one...and plan to use OTA reception...5th or 6th generation tuners are a must, in my mind (every tuner I know out there sold these days is at least 5th gen). But for WBBM reception, I now strongly recommend a TV with a 6th gen tuner. Those absolutely known to have it are:

1. All LG HDTVs that are 2007 models and later (note: Insignia brand HDTV's, made by LG, and sold exclusively at Best Buy, still only have 5th gen tuners!)

2. All LG/Zenith DTV digital converter boxes that are "coupon approved" by the FCC DTV converter box coupon program

3. All Mitsubishi 2008 HDTV models

Since most HDTV's use LG made tuners (they hold the patent), look for 6th gen tuners to sprout in off-brand and other name-brand models. I cannot confirm 100% the Initial branded TV having it, but the reception is way beyond anything I have ever seen. And if you want WBBM-DT reception, there are still no guarantees...but it substantially increases your chances of getting it with these latest generation tuners.

With a 30' high large antenna and amplifier, when WBBM goes high power on 12 and WLS goes high power on 7 in 2009, you'll be able to get both these stations, I'm thinking, in Rockford, and maybe beyond with a 6th gen tuner!

Gilbert, thanks for the detailed post above. As a DTV DXer, I am now wondering if this Initial unit is DXer friendly (most new ones are NOT). Can you manually enter the true RF number of the DTV channel, or do you first HAVE TO let the tuner perform an auto scan? Units that FORCE you to scan for channels drive me crazy!!! No wonder new DTV/HDTV viewers are confused about digital TV. They hook up their antenna, point it in the direction they THINK it should be aimed, hit the required auto scan button, and then when certain channels are not found they assume that they cannot receive those channels, when it simply could have been the result of a misaimed antenna. What's wrong with punching up the station via its true RF channel number and then rotating the antenna until the station decodes on the screen? Too tough for Joe 6 Pack?

Anyway, could you also share the model number of this Initial set? Thanks.

Steve

Gilbert, thanks for the detailed post above. As a DTV DXer, I am now wondering if this Initial unit is DXer friendly (most new ones are NOT). Can you manually enter the true RF number of the DTV channel, or do you first HAVE TO let the tuner perform an auto scan? Units that FORCE you to scan for channels drive me crazy!!! No wonder new DTV/HDTV viewers are confused about digital TV. They hook up their antenna, point it in the direction they THINK it should be aimed, hit the required auto scan button, and then when certain channels are not found they assume that they cannot receive those channels, when it simply could have been the result of a misaimed antenna. What's wrong with punching up the station via its true RF channel number and then rotating the antenna until the station decodes on the screen? Too tough for Joe 6 Pack?

Anyway, could you also share the model number of this Initial set? Thanks.

Steve

Hi Steve,

Yes, you can manually enter in the number. It has both analog and digital tuners, and resolves PSIP, virtual channel number, and any info the station passes along for easy identification. It is the Initial HDTV-320; on sale
at Farm and Fleet in Wisconsin and Illinois (maybe Indiana?), but many stores are already sold out...

This might be a crazy question, and I am not sure where else to put this, but why doesn't WGN broadcast the Bulls away games in HD? Is there a reason the road games can't be broadcast in HD? I know that the away arenas that the Bulls play in have HD capability.

This might be a crazy question, and I am not sure where else to put this, but why doesn't WGN broadcast the Bulls away games in HD? Is there a reason the road games can't be broadcast in HD? I know that the away arenas that the Bulls play in have HD capability.

They can, its just a matter of $$$. HD fiber backhauls aren't that cheap.

Not sure if I care all that much this season anyways. :rolleyes:;)

Success in Gurnee (60031)!

Channel Master 3671 on a 15 ft mast, Channel Master 7777 pre-amp, 50 ft of RG-11 to a Vizio 50" plasma, and HD glory is mine for all eyes to see, including the holy grail of Chicago-land programming, the NFL on WBBM-HD! Of course, all that got me this weekend was the Patriots pasting the Dolphins, but hey...
Even my parents, whose eyes have been unwittingly abused by twenty-five years of OTA-analog, followed by the criminal injustice otherwise known as Comcast basic cable, were mesmerized by WTTW-HD - a special on volcanoes in Hawaii.

Many thanks to sebenste for his extremely detailed treatise on page 1, of which without this project would probably have ended in horrific failure.

Here's hoping the Giants beat the Patriots this weekend, on CBS, on NBC, on any channel that can and will carry the game!

Whoa...perhaps I need to discuss with my therapist my intense hatred of New England;)

Thanks. I had a feeling it was a money thing.

Whoa...perhaps I need to discuss with my therapist my intense hatred of New England;)Not really. Being a Sox' fan, if everyone of us who hated the Cubs that much did that, the shrink's offices couldn't keep up.

Unless you're an actual N.E. fan, this NFL season as a whole is very uninteresting because of them. It's just like passing time.

Takes all the fun out when you know a team's gonna just breeze all the way through to the end like that.

I suppose some of the other top team's fans have a delusional shred of hope, although everyone else knows they're no match, but being a Bears' fan also added to doing me in early for the season. I completely lost interest in this season after about the third or fourth week.

Even if this weekend's game is potentially, "historical", so what. That certainly doesn't make the rest of the season anymore worthwhile to us non-N.E. fans. I suppose if I felt there was the slightest hope that they were gonna have an off-day, I might wanna watch - but they (and the rest of the league) have undoubtedly proven that ain't gonna happen. Don't really wanna watch them just run up the score yet once more. And the Giants certainly ain't better than any of the best teams they've played this year. Ho-hum.

Not really. Being a Sox' fan, if everyone of us who hated the Cubs that much did that, the shrink's offices couldn't keep up.

And vice versa. :D


I suppose some of the other top team's fans have a delusional shred of hope, although everyone else knows they're no match, but being a Bears' fan also added to doing me in early for the season. I completely lost interest in this season after about the third or fourth week.

Interception was their middle name...


Even if this weekend's game is potentially, "historical", so what. That certainly doesn't make the rest of the season anymore worthwhile to us non-N.E. fans. I suppose if I felt there was the slightest hope that they were gonna have an off-day, I might wanna watch - but they (and the rest of the league) have undoubtedly proven that ain't gonna happen. Don't really wanna watch them just run up the score yet once more. And the Giants certainly ain't better than any of the best teams they've played this year. Ho-hum.

Well, if U of I can beat Ohio State AT Ohio State, and we can beat up on the Packers every time, thereby wrecking their unbeaten season, anything can happen! :cool:

Gilbert,

Thanks for the attenuator suggestion. All this time I've been used to compensating for the performance of a smaller unit when infact the 7084 is a pretty good antenna with amplification nulled, even with all the splits hooked up - albeit some stations do still benefit from the 'help' given by amplification. However, two thirds of them are at full power right now with the attenuator turned all the way down, and with the weaker ones it may still be an issue of aim, but I don't need the Spanish stations anyway. It'll be interesting to see how the ability to vary the signal strength will come into play with climatological changes.

Regards and Happy New Year.

Gilbert,

Thanks for the attenuator suggestion. All this time I've been used to compensating for the performance of a smaller unit when infact the 7084 is a pretty good antenna with amplification nulled, even with all the splits hooked up - albeit some stations do still benefit from the 'help' given by amplification. However, two thirds of them are at full power right now with the attenuator turned all the way down, and with the weaker ones it may still be an issue of aim, but I don't need the Spanish stations anyway. It'll be interesting to see how the ability to vary the signal strength will come into play with climatological changes.

Regards and Happy New Year.

You are welcome and thanks! And thanks r00t61, enjoy!

Hey guys, Im sure you allready know this.. This saturdays game is being braudcasted on both NBC (WMAQ) and CBS (WBBM). This would be a great time to compare PQ against each other. Im assuming that WBBMDT would blow WMAQDT in PQ as WBBM has no subchannels and puts all of the bandwith twards picture :)

Might not make a difference, because NBC and CBS aren't using their own equipment. They're just simulcasting the NFL Network's feed.

The NFL Network is 1080i as is both CBS and NBC, so theoretically the game should look the same on all three. However, my money's on WBBM to provide the crisper looking output; they are easily the best looking station in town. Sunday Night Football on WMAQ always seems to be missing some sort of detail, the graininess of which reminds me more of 720p than true 1080i, but maybe it's just me.

Have you seen the NFL Network's last couple of games? The PQ has been outstanding! Second to none, in fact.

My bet's on WBBM. WMAQ's football looks pretty bad no matter what game they're showing and from where.

I see artifacts on WBBM's games, too, but not usually as bad as on WMAQ's football games. And WBBM is definitely the crispest, like longwong says.

My bet's on WBBM. WMAQ's football looks pretty bad no matter what game they're showing and from where.

I see artifacts on WBBM's games, too, but not usually as bad as on WMAQ's football games. And WBBM is definitely the crispest, like longwong says.

WBBM will win in terms of pure bit allocation. BUT, remember the preseason game when it loked so sharp? Over on the programming board, the talk is that the backhaul and the fronthaul bitrates have been substantially increased. It is quite possible that WMAQ will come close to WBBM's picture quality. Also, the NFL Network just upgraded their backhaul bitrate, and reportedly, the last game they carried looked as good or BETTER than CBS! :eek: :cool:

So, I think in terms of raw power, CBS must get the nod unless the network messes it up, but I don't see that happening. But if all goes well, NBC may turn in a surprisingly good 2nd. That'll be good for us who still don't have 6th gen tuners and cable to get WBBM. :D

Gilbert,

After a couple of weeks, I have finally gotten around to working on my antenna again. My issue is still WLS-DT, I can't get that one channel to work. Attached are some pictures of my setup. The antenna is in the attic, and the attic is quite high, so the antenna is about 28-30 ft. off the ground. I have no problems picking up all the other stations, although some of them are weaker than others. http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=12157972#post12157972 would be the context of my situation.

I am not quite sure where else to go in terms of my signal. Analog Channel 50 has a lot of ghosting, and analog Channel 60/62/66 have a lot of snow. To make a comparison, I can pick up analog channel 17 from Rockford and the picture quality is around that of 60/62/66.

I have attached 3 pictures, one is of the antenna is my attic so you can see the type. The second picture is of my preamp. The third picture is of a blue box called a "booster-coupler" that isn't currently attached to anything and never has been. Is there any other info I could provide you with that would allow for some suggestions on what else I could do?

Gilbert,

After a couple of weeks, I have finally gotten around to working on my antenna again. My issue is still WLS-DT, I can't get that one channel to work. Attached are some pictures of my setup. The antenna is in the attic, and the attic is quite high, so the antenna is about 28-30 ft. off the ground. I have no problems picking up all the other stations, although some of them are weaker than others. http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=12157972#post12157972 would be the context of my situation.

I am not quite sure where else to go in terms of my signal. Analog Channel 50 has a lot of ghosting, and analog Channel 60/62/66 have a lot of snow. To make a comparison, I can pick up analog channel 17 from Rockford and the picture quality is around that of 60/62/66.

I have attached 3 pictures, one is of the antenna is my attic so you can see the type. The second picture is of my preamp. The third picture is of a blue box called a "booster-coupler" that isn't currently attached to anything and never has been. Is there any other info I could provide you with that would allow for some suggestions on what else I could do?

I think you probably missed my last message, but you have RG-6 cable to the TV's, correct? That UHF antenna isn't very directional, nor will it give you high gain. If you have the $$$$, do this...

1. Pick up a Channelmaster 4228 UHF antenna. It's 40"x 40", so make sure it will fit through the attic door. They have them over at Fry's for about $60.

2. Pick up this little device:

http://www.solidsignal.com/prod_display.asp?PROD=ANTDRCT-COMBNR

What you are going to do is use the VHF signal from your current antenna, and diplex, or if you will, combine the UHF signal from the 4228, which is much better than the one you have now. I thought you had a better UHF antenna on your attic one, but this will do the trick for you. Yeah, I know it's an $80 investment, but it will work and then you'll be all set. Do get 2 extra RG-6 jumper cable for the connection between the 4228 and the UHF part of the joiner, and for the current antenna to the VHF part of the joiner.

Thanks Gilbert. That makes a lot of sense in terms of what is causing the problem. It probably would have been better for me to have sent a picture of the antenna to begin with... Anyways, if I go with this second antenna, could that replace my antenna that I currently have? Or would going with two separate antenna's be the way to go? Also, would this second antenna allow the Rockford channels to come in more clearly (ABC, NBC, CBS)? Or is the clarity that I have with them going to be the best that I get?

Thanks Gilbert. That makes a lot of sense in terms of what is causing the problem. It probably would have been better for me to have sent a picture of the antenna to begin with...


That does help, but it's obvious now what the problem is.

Anyways, if I go with this second antenna, could that replace my antenna that I currently have?

No. You'll lose WBBM-DT with it (if you're not getting WBBM, you can now have freedom to move the antenna after you do the split. If you decide you can live without WBBM, you don't need the combiner and can take the other one down.

Or would going with two separate antenna's be the way to go?

I'd go with the two separate antennas. That's how I have it in my attic: a large Winegard VHF-only antenna diplexed to a ChannelMaster 4228 UHF antenna. If you had a ChannelMaster 7777 preamp, you wouldn't need the diplexer, since the CM 7777 has one built in. But, you still have a great amp, and it's on par in terms of power with the 7777. I recommend either amp, but if you are going with the single antenna, the one you have will work fine.
Also, when WBBM goes to channel 12 in 2009, the other antenna should do you better in that regard to get it.

Also, would this second antenna allow the Rockford channels to come in more clearly (ABC, NBC, CBS)? Or is the clarity that I have with them going to be the best that I get?

Actually, your signals will get a lot worse...or get a lot better. :) Let me explain...

The ChannelMaster 4228 is a very directional antenna. That will help eliminate some of the "ghosts" you see on analog, and increase your signal gain to help reduce snow. To accomplish this, however, you lose most of your signal coming in from the back and sides.

On the other hand, if you put it on a mast where you could manually rotate it, or put it on an antenna rotor that you may also be able to pick up at Fry's for an additional $69 or so, pointing it at Rockford will get you a significantly better signal. You have a decent shot of locking WQRF-DT FOX with it, and possibly WTVO-DT (ABC). So it's up to you if and how you want to do it.

I think I just might give the 4228 a try in 2009!

Our most popular UHF antenna! Perfect for High Definition broadcasts. Maximize

your reception and minimize drop-outs associated with other inferior antennas.

The 4228 also works quite well on upper VHF channels 9-13!

Antenna comes fully assembled - just mount and point!

Gilbert,

After a couple of weeks, I have finally gotten around to working on my antenna again. My issue is still WLS-DT, I can't get that one channel to work. Attached are some pictures of my setup. The antenna is in the attic, and the attic is quite high, so the antenna is about 28-30 ft. off the ground. I have no problems picking up all the other stations, although some of them are weaker than others. http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=12157972#post12157972 would be the context of my situation.

I am not quite sure where else to go in terms of my signal. Analog Channel 50 has a lot of ghosting, and analog Channel 60/62/66 have a lot of snow. To make a comparison, I can pick up analog channel 17 from Rockford and the picture quality is around that of 60/62/66.

I have attached 3 pictures, one is of the antenna is my attic so you can see the type. The second picture is of my preamp. The third picture is of a blue box called a "booster-coupler" that isn't currently attached to anything and never has been. Is there any other info I could provide you with that would allow for some suggestions on what else I could do?

A separate UHF 4 bay like the DB4 or CM4221,4228 (you can make one like here: http://uhfhdtvantenna.blogspot.com/) and use a inexpencive UVSJ to combine them to your down cable. You are about 32 miles from Chicago well with in the range of those antennas. Use the existing antenna for only VHF if you receive WBBM-DT 3. If not a Antennas Direct Y5-2-6 will pull in all the VHF low and high for just $30 at Solid Signal's site. My setup is here:http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=12560225#post12560225.

Cheers, Tony

Winegard 8275 settings

I just received a new 8275 with a fm trap in/out and variable. I need a little help in deciding which settings to use. I am 62 miles south of the city and radio with the antenna would be nice but not at the expense of picture.

Thanks

I think I just might give the 4228 a try in 2009!

Our most popular UHF antenna! Perfect for High Definition broadcasts. Maximize

your reception and minimize drop-outs associated with other inferior antennas.

The 4228 also works quite well on upper VHF channels 9-13!

Antenna comes fully assembled - just mount and point!




I have this antenna and I have to agree.. Even channel 7 comes in great on mine. This is why I cant wait for WBBM to go to ch 12 as I know how well this thing nails in channel 11. I just wish I knew the date that WBBM would go to 12.. I would have my remote in hand and ready.

FM trap out = You can tune in to FM stations using that coax
FM trap IN = All stations are blocked.

Being how far south you are, I think you shouldnt have any issues with any radio stations. Here in manteno, I know I have issues due to 9fm on 99.9 and the blowtorch that it is. (i live less than a half a mile from there antenna) But I choose to have it out as I do use the coax for HD radio.

Here in manteno, I know I have issues due to 9fm on 99.9 and the blowtorch that it is. (i live less than a half a mile from there antenna) But I choose to have it out as I do use the coax for HD radio.

I remember a few years ago when it was a different station how LOUD it would get when I'd drive past...

As I suspected, the Pats-Giants game looks comparatively gorgeous on WBBM vs WMAQ. Less than a quarter left to see if the Pats can make the 72 Dolphins shut their piehole...

WBBM loooked great.. WMAQ had motion Artifacts and HDNFL looked stunning on Directv.

As I suspected, the Pats-Giants game looks comparatively gorgeous on WBBM vs WMAQ. Less than a quarter left to see if the Pats can make the 72 Dolphins shut their piehole...

WBBM-DT hands down the winner for OTA broadcast. But that NFL camera work is terribly in and out of focus. More noticeable in HD I bet. :D

The CBS and NFL Network feeds, though, aren't transmitting in DD5.1. On my Onkyo 805, they're coming through in Neural THX 7.1, while on my WMAQ-5 and DirecTV HD DNS Channel 82 (NBC East), the game's in DD5.1.

The CBS and NFL Network feeds, though, aren't transmitting in DD5.1. On my Onkyo 805, they're coming through in Neural THX 7.1, while on my WMAQ-5 and DirecTV HD DNS Channel 82 (NBC East), the game's in DD5.1.

Well, CBS is sending out faux 5.1, as is NBC. They really only have 2.0 from NFL Network; local stations and CBS/NBC can mix to their desire.

Ken H on the programming side learned that CBS, including WBBM-DT, got a special high bitrate ~40 mb/sec feed of that game. Too bad for NBC, which also suffered some for having a lower bitrate from NBC headquarters to WMAQ, even though it was fiber.

Not to mention the audio on NBC was WAY low.

My NBC NFL audio is always low. It's even different between my local NBC affiliate, WMAQ, and the HD DNS feed, NBC-East out of NY.

CBS audio seems to be louder than the other networks, especially when they just pass 2.0. I always notice a huge difference when I tune between 2 and 5, both on the TV and through the stereo. The sound from the local feed normalizes this a bit, since WBBM forces 5.0 when it's not doing network.

Is anyone having reception problems with WFLD-DT? I've had problems off and on with the reception since the World Series. Last week the reception was great (a solid 92) during the Bears game but today I could not pick it up and had to watch the analog broadcast of the game. I pick up every other channel fine. I'm getting a signal strength of 41 and some blips up to about 67. What I've noticed is most times their signal strength is not as good as the others which all come in over 90. I even get WJYS-DT around 62-65. If the weather was bad I could understand but last week it was so windy out yet I had no probems, it just does not make sense to me. All the other stations signals are solid and have little to no changes in signal strength but lately WFLD-DT is weaker (when viewable anywhere from 70 to 84) and seems to be more unstable.

Is anyone having reception problems with WFLD-DT? I've had problems off and on with the reception since the World Series. Last week the reception was great (a solid 92) during the Bears game but today I could not pick it up and had to watch the analog broadcast of the game. I pick up every other channel fine. I'm getting a signal strength of 41 and some blips up to about 67. What I've noticed is most times their signal strength is not as good as the others which all come in over 90. I even get WJYS-DT around 62-65. If the weather was bad I could understand but last week it was so windy out yet I had no probems, it just does not make sense to me. All the other stations signals are solid and have little to no changes in signal strength but lately WFLD-DT is weaker (when viewable anywhere from 70 to 84) and seems to be more unstable.

No problems from Crystal Lake.

Is anyone having reception problems with WFLD-DT?

Rock solid in DeKalb with a ChannelMaster 4228 antenna. Sounds like a multipath problem. How does analog 32 look? See any "ghosts"

Hey everyone,

It's been a fun year on the AVS Forum Chicago OTA thread. From helping more than 2 billion people get WBBM-DT at the beginning of the year ;-) , to seeing our first HD news broadcast in this market, to the demise of The Tube Music Network, Total Living Network (over the air, anyway), to the rise of MHZ Worldview on 20-3 (when it manages to stay on the air; as I type this, it's just a black screen), and WYCC-DT going HD (just saw one of their first 1080i 16:9 HD promos tonight...wow, wow, WOW!), it's been an interesting year!

We will see a lot happening in the HD side of things in 2008. We all know that CBS will move into their new digs, and be in HD this summer; WMAQ-DT has announced it upgrade their news studio equipment to HD. FOX is HD all the way to where they send the signal to Sears, so we'll see when that happens. WGN...when they go HD, they'll also have to give Tom Skilling a new expensive system, and with the sale going on, that probably won't happen soon.

On the other hand, in January, look for WWTO-DT 35.1 Ottawa to go HD if their timetable is still on...we'll see. WCPX-DT 38.1 will be 720p in March. WYIN-DT plans *two* HD channels...this I gotta see. And as for the stations that broadcast en espanol...Telemundo is shooting programs in HD, so WSNS-DT in 1080i or 720p is a good bet this year. And I bet 60 and 66 will be right on their tails. We could see up to 6 area broadcast channels upgrade to HD by year's end:

WWTO
WCPX
WSNS
WYIN (again)
WXFT
WGBO

Outside of WWTO/WCPX/WYIN, I am purely speculating with the other three.

2008 will also see area low power TV stations sign on, and the saga continuing for some. WWME-LD sign-on has been delayed; I don't know why, but 3 ice storms, snowstorms, and one of the snowiest/iciest Decembers ever hasn't helped them. Their WFBT-LD application is still in limbo on channel 46. I'm guessing WSPY-LD in Plano and its translator in Aurora on channels 22 and 18, respectively, have a good shot of signing on. And then there's WOCH-LP and WOCK-LP. WOCK-LD has now been bounced twice; after applying to channel 12, it got bounced when WBBM-DT got approval to go there in 2009; then they got bounced from channel 6, and now they're trying for 4. WOCH has no digital companion channel applied for. I'm starting to bet that WOCK is setting up to be an HD channel eventually, with WOCH broadcasting on a subchannel. Finally, channel 6 (WLFM-LP) is on the air and has a digital CP for channel 49. 15 kilowatts off of Hancock should go 40 miles at least showing MTV Tres if it ever signs on. And who applied for channel 33 at under 2 kilowatts?

You all have a happy new year! Let's ring in (digitally) a great 2008 to all!

I was near WOCH's studio yesterday afternoon, and I thought of stopping there to ask about their plans, but I really didn't have time.

The friend I was with was telling me it's a tiny studio on top of a store or apt. building, and that they are very low budget (like I figured), and only have like 2 or 3 employees.

Hi all :)


I am new to OTA HD and haven't used an antenna for reception since I was a young child. I live in Joliet ( near Essington and Ingalls) and have recently purchased a Tivo HD box for the OTA HD reception.

The wife and I usually end up watching television through our comcast DVR. Nearly all the time the show will be off the major network or a cooking show off PBS. So I got to wondering about going strictly OTA and getting rid of cable. I ended up getting a Tivo HD and planned to get a DB8 to put in the attic (can't go outdoors).

But after reading some of the OTA reception threads here I am really worried about receiving the major networks with any reliability. I'm not sure if I can still cancel my Tivo order...but I'm leaning toward calling them to cancel after reading the troubles others here have had.

I have a two story house, newer construction. It has a large attic space and cedar siding. If I go thru with this...I won't have any back-up signal, such as dish or cable. I don't want this to turn into a hobby with something I tinker with (I've got audio for that). For my Tv signal I would like some stability.

Is it asking too much to receive the major networks in Joliet with an attic antenna?

thanks,
dan

Hi all :)


I am new to OTA HD and haven't used an antenna for reception since I was a young child. I live in Joliet ( near Essington and Ingalls) and have recently purchased a Tivo HD box for the OTA HD reception.

So I got to wondering about going strictly OTA and getting rid of cable. I ended up getting a Tivo HD and planned to get a DB8 to put in the attic (can't go outdoors).

But after reading some of the OTA reception threads here I am really worried about receiving the major networks with any reliability. I'm not sure if I can still cancel my Tivo order...but I'm leaning toward calling them to cancel after reading the troubles others here have had.

I have a two story house, newer construction. It has a large attic space and cedar siding. If I go thru with this...I won't have any back-up signal, such as dish or cable. I don't want this to turn into a hobby with something I tinker with (I've got audio for that). For my Tv signal I would like some stability.

Is it asking too much to receive the major networks in Joliet with an attic antenna?

thanks,
dan

Hello Dan,

First, over the air reception is never guaranteed, as it is affected by atmospheric conditions. Having said that, cable and satellite are the same way. There are three things that will affect your reception and how reliable it is:

1. The antenna and accessories
2. Where you put the antenna, and if anything blocks the signal
3. The tuner

Let me answer #3 first. The Tivo is a 5th generation tuner. Not the absolute best (6th gen is most current, it came out in 2007, not availbale in many TV's yet), but still very good. Here's what I would do.

Grab a VU-190 VHF-UHF antenna from Radio Shack. Usually $99 (and as of 12/31/07, that's the price). The UHF part of the antenna isn't the greatest, but that's fine; where you are located at, it will more than do the job for you.
The important thing is that it does a very good job at picking up channels 2-6. I have a friend in Elburn who locks WBBM rock solid on a 4th generation tuner in Elburn from an attic, 45 miles west of Chicago. Anyway, because you lose 70%-90% of your signal due to the attic, you'll need a ChannelMaster 7777 preamplifier or a Winegard AP-8275 to boost that signal up. Without it, your chances of getting WBBM are very low. The DB-8 does UHF only. You will have no chance whatsoever at getting WBBM, either now or when it goes to higher power on channel 12 in 2009. The VU-190 is a large antenna (nearly 14' long), but in an attic that far out, you need something that big for reliable reception.

With an antenna in the attic, warm fronts and temperature inversions will cause reception problems from time to time more than 20 miles out. But, these typically do not last long. And you are close enough in so that they may not be a major problem.

35 miles out, I can't guarantee attic reception, and especially not WBBM. It is worth a try, however...but keep the receipts handy.

As for me, I am running with a ChannelMaster 4228 UHF antenna and a 20 year old, monster-sized VHF-only antenna low near a river valley in the northwest side of DeKalb.

I have this antenna and I have to agree.. Even channel 7 comes in great on mine. This is why I cant wait for WBBM to go to ch 12 as I know how well this thing nails in channel 11. I just wish I knew the date that WBBM would go to 12.. I would have my remote in hand and ready.

Thanks for the update. I will give this a try!

Rock solid in DeKalb with a ChannelMaster 4228 antenna. Sounds like a multipath problem. How does analog 32 look? See any "ghosts"
No ghosts on analog 32.

Hi all :)


I am new to OTA HD and haven't used an antenna for reception since I was a young child. I live in Joliet ( near Essington and Ingalls) and have recently purchased a Tivo HD box for the OTA HD reception.

The wife and I usually end up watching television through our comcast DVR. Nearly all the time the show will be off the major network or a cooking show off PBS. So I got to wondering about going strictly OTA and getting rid of cable. I ended up getting a Tivo HD and planned to get a DB8 to put in the attic (can't go outdoors).

But after reading some of the OTA reception threads here I am really worried about receiving the major networks with any reliability. I'm not sure if I can still cancel my Tivo order...but I'm leaning toward calling them to cancel after reading the troubles others here have had.

I have a two story house, newer construction. It has a large attic space and cedar siding. If I go thru with this...I won't have any back-up signal, such as dish or cable. I don't want this to turn into a hobby with something I tinker with (I've got audio for that). For my Tv signal I would like some stability.

Is it asking too much to receive the major networks in Joliet with an attic antenna?

thanks,
dan


Hello, Dan you should be ok in the attic w/ a DB4,8 and a AntennaCraft Y5-2-6 if you want WBBM now and can't wait til 2009 or Y5-7-13 for the VHF at only 35 miles or so your in good shape for the attic setup. Use a UVSJ to combine the two separate antennas and if your ambitious make your own UHF bowtie like this http://uhfhdtvantenna.blogspot.com/ See my setup, I'm 38 miles out and have 50-90% signal strength to my Samsung DLP. AntennaCrafts at Solid Signal.com are less than $35 shipped and build your own DB4 out of coat hangers. All less than $100 with the RG6 cable and UVSJ from ebay. By the way I get WBBM-DT rock solid without the Pre-amp

That does help, but it's obvious now what the problem is.


No. You'll lose WBBM-DT with it (if you're not getting WBBM, you can now have freedom to move the antenna after you do the split. If you decide you can live without WBBM, you don't need the combiner and can take the other one down.

I'd go with the two separate antennas. That's how I have it in my attic: a large Winegard VHF-only antenna diplexed to a ChannelMaster 4228 UHF antenna. If you had a ChannelMaster 7777 preamp, you wouldn't need the diplexer, since the CM 7777 has one built in. But, you still have a great amp, and it's on par in terms of power with the 7777. I recommend either amp, but if you are going with the single antenna, the one you have will work fine.
Also, when WBBM goes to channel 12 in 2009, the other antenna should do you better in that regard to get it.



Actually, your signals will get a lot worse...or get a lot better. :) Let me explain...

The ChannelMaster 4228 is a very directional antenna. That will help eliminate some of the "ghosts" you see on analog, and increase your signal gain to help reduce snow. To accomplish this, however, you lose most of your signal coming in from the back and sides.

On the other hand, if you put it on a mast where you could manually rotate it, or put it on an antenna rotor that you may also be able to pick up at Fry's for an additional $69 or so, pointing it at Rockford will get you a significantly better signal. You have a decent shot of locking WQRF-DT FOX with it, and possibly WTVO-DT (ABC). So it's up to you if and how you want to do it.

Is there an antenna that could replace my current setup as opposed to two antennas? One antenna that could pick up both WTTW-DT as well as WLS-DT? (I'm assuming there is, but it would cost more?)

Also, on a totally separate note, why hasn't WGN put separate programming on their second subchannel since The Tube is no longer there? Is there any reason they couldn't put the superstation feed on that subchannel as that programming is much different since they don't have CW content on the superstation?

Is there an antenna that could replace my current setup as opposed to two antennas? One antenna that could pick up both WTTW-DT as well as WLS-DT? (I'm assuming there is, but it would cost more?)

Yep. For the attic, I'd go with the Radio Shack VU-190, which costs $99.
That will definitely do the trick. More directional, better reception, and my friend in Elburn locks it with a 4th generation Dish Network digital tuner at ~92%.

No ghosts on analog 32.

Wow. That's weird, and I assume it comes in fine with no snow. Hmmm. Other than adjusting how the antenna is pointed, I don't know what could be wrong. I'd call the station's engineering department to see if there's a problem with their PSIP or something else on their end, but if 32 analog is rock-solid, 31 should be a cinch. There might be one problem: if it's coming in too strongly, it might be overloading your tuner, if it's really sensitive. Try taking out the amplifier/preamplifier and see what happens first.

Gilbert and Wireman...thanks for your response!

I didn't/don't have my heart set on the db8...but I just wanted to ensure that I received UHF signals as good as possible. If UHF won't be as much of an issue, as VHF, then it sounds like the VU-190 may fit my situation. I suppose I could get the VU-190 now and if I have problems with UHF then I could visit that issue then.

I noticed the Wingard 8275 has higher gain (VHF&UHF), while the Channel Master 7777 doesn't have as high of gain...but lower noise. Is there a preference for one preamp over the other?

I'm still not sure how long the RG-6 run will need to be, but I will make it as short as possible. The VU-190 sounds like a rather large antenna. Is there a preference for placement in an attic? In the center as high as possible...or as close to the northern edge of the attic...or in the center at whatever height the mount takes it to?

thanks again all! (oh..Happy New Year too!)
dan

Gilbert and Wireman...thanks for your response!

I didn't/don't have my heart set on the db8...but I just wanted to ensure that I received UHF signals as good as possible. If UHF won't be as much of an issue, as VHF, then it sounds like the VU-190 may fit my situation. I suppose I could get the VU-190 now and if I have problems with UHF then I could visit that issue then.

I noticed the Wingard 8275 has higher gain (VHF&UHF), while the Channel Master 7777 doesn't have as high of gain...but lower noise. Is there a preference for one preamp over the other?

I'm still not sure how long the RG-6 run will need to be, but I will make it as short as possible. The VU-190 sounds like a rather large antenna. Is there a preference for placement in an attic? In the center as high as possible...or as close to the northern edge of the attic...or in the center at whatever height the mount takes it to?

thanks again all! (oh..Happy New Year too!)
dan

Since most of the Digital channels are on UHF the DB4 4bay with 13+dB gain would do better than any combo (VHF/UHF) antenna for UHF reception. The higher gain of the 4bay will help and you most likely won't need a pre-amp for UHF.
At this time there are only 2 digital broadcasts on the VHF band, WBBM-DT channel 3 (2) and WWTO-DT channel 10 (35.1). The Antenna Craft Y5-2-6 is a VHF low broadband antenna that has more gain than the VU-190 at VHF low 4.9dB verse 3.6dB and is only 80" long compared to 160" for the VU-190 the Y5 also pulls in the VHF high band quite well for when WBBM and WLS go to VHF 12 and 7, when analog shuts down. Combine the antennas with a inexpensive UVSJ that allows for clean low dB loss insertion of the two antennas into one cable, to your HD set. The shorter antenna length will allow more choices for positioning in the attic. In the attic point the antennas to a gabled or sided side of the house (if possible), directed toward the transmitters at 49-50 degree Compass Orientation as per Antenna Web site. Pick a location that is in line of sight, unobstructed by trees or taller buildings.
If your going to do this, a little extra work can go a long way for excellent results with minimal out of pocket loss and headaches. A pre-amp can be added later if needed for one or both of the antennas. If you have a clear view from your roof line to Chicago you should be a ok... :D

UHF antenna here it is:http://uhfhdtvantenna.blogspot.com/

Solid Signal here:http://www.solidsignal.com/prod_display.asp?PROD=Y5-2-6

Yep. For the attic, I'd go with the Radio Shack VU-190, which costs $99.
That will definitely do the trick. More directional, better reception, and my friend in Elburn locks it with a 4th generation Dish Network digital tuner at ~92%.

That antenna is huge! I can see why the 40" one would be the way to go for the UHF channels. Thanks for all your advice.

Wow. That's weird, and I assume it comes in fine with no snow. Hmmm. Other than adjusting how the antenna is pointed, I don't know what could be wrong. I'd call the station's engineering department to see if there's a problem with their PSIP or something else on their end, but if 32 analog is rock-solid, 31 should be a cinch. There might be one problem: if it's coming in too strongly, it might be overloading your tuner, if it's really sensitive. Try taking out the amplifier/preamplifier and see what happens first.
Thank you for your help! It's fine today and was okay yesterday all day except in the afternoon. I don't have a pre-amp or amplifier, just a 7084 split to two sets.

Thank you for your help! It's fine today and was okay yesterday all day except in the afternoon. I don't have a pre-amp or amplifier, just a 7084 split to two sets.

(Shrug) Ya got me on that one. Sounds like everything is fine. I did notice tonight, around 11 PM as U of Hawaii was being pounded on, WFLD started breaking up and acting weird on a friend's Dish Network 4th gen HD tuner. It did this for about 10 minutes, then it was fine.

(Shrug) Ya got me on that one. Sounds like everything is fine. I did notice tonight, around 11 PM as U of Hawaii was being pounded on, WFLD started breaking up and acting weird on a friend's Dish Network 4th gen HD tuner. It did this for about 10 minutes, then it was fine.
That sounds like the problem I've experienced at times.

That sounds like the problem I've experienced at times.

That sounds like a subtle PSIP problem. I don't see it on my third gen Zenith tuner, but it usually can handle a lot of junk thrown at it.

1) my tivo hd decided i should be getting 23-1 . aka Sgt. Schultz, i see nothing, nothing!

2) what is 26-3? foreign language stuff but no guide data...

3) anyone else miss wycc's test pattern? should have recorded it when i had the chance.

1) my tivo hd decided i should be getting 23-1 . aka Sgt. Schultz, i see nothing, nothing!

I wonder if they're about ready to sign on WWME-LD. Where's America's favorite hvs10trk when you need him? :D

2) what is 26-3? foreign language stuff but no guide data...

That is a simulcast of WFBT-CA, low power analog channel 48. Low power stations are not required to have guide data, and given how much it changes,
updating it would be darn near impossible.


3) anyone else miss wycc's test pattern? should have recorded it when i had the chance.

It wasn't in HD, so I don't think it would do you any good. If you need to color balance or adjust your TV, the THX one they have in front of most DVD's should be sufficient for most folks.

I have an HR 20, wich works fine. The only thing is you need a seprate line for OTA and you cant use a Diplexer. The B band that the new channels are on uses the same frequancy as ota so it would conflict. Im Down here in Manteno with a Channelmaster 4228 and a CM 7777preamp. I get everything maxed out like crazy (yea I know I like overkill) Including WYCC wich was luding me for the longest time. The only thing that I have against me is the lack of highth that I can put the anteanna at due to me living in an apartment building. Channel 7 looks great and all the DTV stations are at 100% Now the only issue i have is when some one parks infront of the thing my signal gets cut like crazy and i loose wycc and wciu.

Does anyone know when WBBM will similcast to digital 12. Any way to get them to do it like within the next few weeks. I think im all set for 2009, and now I wait!

I have now found out that Directv has a HR21 that has no ota input but more storage. I was wondering which tuner would be stronger my TV (bought in
July 2007) LG 42PB4D or the Directv HR20. I was going to wait for future software upgrades on the HR20 but now I may be forced to upgrade now due to hardware issues. I would really like to integrate into one component for all channel instead of constantly switching inputs on my tv.

Again with the Directv HR20 I have a seperate line for ota coming from my Winegard hd-8200 and ap-8275. Will the receiver integrate the channels from my antenna into the program guide and alow me to DVR them as I do Directv channels and what about the sub channels

thanks

An update on the attenuator... I've found that in below freezing weather all my UHF reception is still drastically weakened, yet the VHF remains untouched, and the attenuator does not really do anything to increase the signal level. I would have thought that the 7084 antenna with 15+ db of additional gain off the 8700 preamp would be nothing short of a no-brainer blowtorch with regard to reception in Arlington Heights, so either something in the set-up is defective or perhaps the antenna itself is just too much. I don't know any more. What I found is that when it was above freezing a few days ago, the UHF was just as crystal-clear as the VHF on analog, and the digital reception with the majors was spot-on at all bars present except on 60 and 66. Since we fell below 10 degrees, all the UHF has again noticeably weakened. I've completely lost WCPX, and WCIU is a borderline lock. Yet WBBM is still 91%+.

I've thought this down to either of two possibilities:
1) Could the preamp be defective? It was lying at a slant in the rain when the mast fell two months ago, so maybe water might have gotten on the inside board and affected the circuitry. However, this should be somewhat improbable given the 'weatherproof' characteristic of the unit, and VHF is like nothing ever happened.
2) Should I move down to a smaller antenna or simply to another antenna? When I turn the attenuator all the way down, the reduced signal level on the UHF stations is still evident. On the analog, you can definitely see that something's off, and the below freezing reception produces fuzz. Maybe the antenna itself snags too much signal for my area, but I also see this as somewhat improbable. With a unit like that, it seems to be your best possibility for 'set it and forget it'.

I'm thinking of switching to the 8780 preamp this spring to see if the extra 10 db of juice on the UHF only will help to maintain usable signal level in the dead of winter, but I'm also thinking this might be overkill. If anyone has any ideas, please let me know. At this point I'm just about tapped.

Regards and thanks.

I wonder if they're about ready to sign on WWME-LD. Where's America's favorite hvs10trk when you need him? :D Nope, antenna still sitting downstairs. Probably just covering the other bases first.

That is a simulcast of WFBT-CA, low power analog channel 48. Low power stations are not required to have guide data, and given how much it changes,
updating it would be darn near impossible. :eek:

An update on the attenuator... I've found that in below freezing weather all my UHF reception is still drastically weakened, yet the VHF remains untouched, and the attenuator does not really do anything to increase the signal level. I would have thought that the 7084 antenna with 15+ db of additional gain off the 8700 preamp would be nothing short of a no-brainer blowtorch with regard to reception in Arlington Heights, so either something in the set-up is defective or perhaps the antenna itself is just too much. I don't know any more. What I found is that when it was above freezing a few days ago, the UHF was just as crystal-clear as the VHF on analog, and the digital reception with the majors was spot-on at all bars present except on 60 and 66. Since we fell below 10 degrees, all the UHF has again noticeably weakened. I've completely lost WCPX, and WCIU is a borderline lock. Yet WBBM is still 91%+.

I've thought this down to either of two possibilities:
1) Could the preamp be defective? It was lying at a slant in the rain when the mast fell two months ago, so maybe water might have gotten on the inside board and affected the circuitry. However, this should be somewhat improbable given the 'weatherproof' characteristic of the unit, and VHF is like nothing ever happened.
2) Should I move down to a smaller antenna or simply to another antenna? When I turn the attenuator all the way down, the reduced signal level on the UHF stations is still evident. On the analog, you can definitely see that something's off, and the below freezing reception produces fuzz. Maybe the antenna itself snags too much signal for my area, but I also see this as somewhat improbable. With a unit like that, it seems to be your best possibility for 'set it and forget it'.

I'm thinking of switching to the 8780 preamp this spring to see if the extra 10 db of juice on the UHF only will help to maintain usable signal level in the dead of winter, but I'm also thinking this might be overkill. If anyone has any ideas, please let me know. At this point I'm just about tapped.

Regards and thanks.

Help me remember...you split the signal, right? How long is the cable?
If you are getting reduced reception on UHF, it sounds like water got a connector or even the balun. When it gets warmer, I would:

1. Redo the connector on the antenna (chop off the connector and wire leading right up to where it touches, and put on a new one)

2. If that doesn't fix it, look where it connects to the antenna and make sure none of those wires and rods broke. Look carefully.

:eek:

Hmmm. Are you saying you can, might, probably will, maybe, could, possibly put guide data on for 26-3? :D

There is over a 20 foot drop from the antenna until the point where it enters the house, then the split takes place. The longest wire from the split goes about 50 feet beyond it.

I suppose the antenna connection can be addressed this spring, but it was siliconed to begin with and I would be surprised to find that it would fail this quickly. But why would water in the connector only affect UHF? Still, the further below freezing, the lower the UHF gets, so if you think this is the smoking gun then I'll take your word for it. While up there, I think I'll still consider an additional UHF boost, but if you think that would be a waste...

Help me remember...you split the signal, right? How long is the cable?
If you are getting reduced reception on UHF, it sounds like water got a connector or even the balun. When it gets warmer, I would:

1. Redo the connector on the antenna (chop off the connector and wire leading right up to where it touches, and put on a new one)

2. If that doesn't fix it, look where it connects to the antenna and make sure none of those wires and rods broke. Look carefully.

I need everyone's help. Would anyone seeing dropped frames or video stuttering on Channel 7.1 WLS-DT please report it here.

For the past several weeks, I have been seeing this problem on certain programs, but only on my Olevia 537H LCD set through the internal tuner. My external tuners don't do this. I would rate the stuttering as severe (unwatchable) on many of the prime time shows, but other programs such as sports and the 10 PM news in HD look fine. This also does not happen at all with the Milwaukee ABC affiliate, so it isn't the network feed.

When I first noticed this, I called WLS and spoke to one of their engineers. Turns out they had switched to a new encoder right about the time I noticed the stuttering. So they switched back to the old encoder for a few nights and the problem disappeared. It has been doing this again for the past few weeks so I assume they have switched back to the new encoder.

I want to call the station again and report this problem, but first, I need some data on how many here are seeing the stuttering. I recently swapped out the Olevia TV for a new one, and it does the same thing. So it's not a problem with just one TV.

If you are seeing this problem, please post here and also include the brand of your TV.

Thanks,
Greg

Well, first of all, "Greg" is my name so please stop using it as your own. ;)

Secondly, not quite your situation, but I do get occasional audio drop outs with WLS-TV channel 7.1 every so often (over the course of the last year). I noticed it this past weekend quite a bit, like once or a few times a minute for the time I was tuned in to the channel. Not horrible, but annoying nevertheless. No problem with the video portion of the signal though.

I have an OTA rooftop apt. building antenna setup received through my Tivo HD S3 tuner. TV is irrelevant as I don't use the TV tuner to receive my programming (though coincidentally, an Olevia lcd).

It wasn't in HD, so I don't think it would do you any good. If you need to color balance or adjust your TV, the THX one they have in front of most DVD's should be sufficient for most folks.

any pbs techs interested in tossing up an hd test pattern or two?

I need everyone's help. Would anyone seeing dropped frames or video stuttering on Channel 7.1 WLS-DT please report it here.

For the past several weeks, I have been seeing this problem on certain programs, but only on my Olevia 537H LCD set through the internal tuner. My external tuners don't do this. I would rate the stuttering as severe (unwatchable) on many of the prime time shows, but other programs such as sports and the 10 PM news in HD look fine. This also does not happen at all with the Milwaukee ABC affiliate, so it isn't the network feed.

When I first noticed this, I called WLS and spoke to one of their engineers. Turns out they had switched to a new encoder right about the time I noticed the stuttering. So they switched back to the old encoder for a few nights and the problem disappeared. It has been doing this again for the past few weeks so I assume they have switched back to the new encoder.

I want to call the station again and report this problem, but first, I need some data on how many here are seeing the stuttering. I recently swapped out the Olevia TV for a new one, and it does the same thing. So it's not a problem with just one TV.

If you are seeing this problem, please post here and also include the brand of your TV.

Thanks,
Greg

I have seen it too but it was fine around New Years Eve/Day. I haven't checked lately.

any pbs techs interested in tossing up an hd test pattern or two?

If I had another HD sub I would do it for ya, but I'm fresh out of HD encoders. :(

There is over a 20 foot drop from the antenna until the point where it enters the house, then the split takes place. The longest wire from the split goes about 50 feet beyond it.

I suppose the antenna connection can be addressed this spring, but it was siliconed to begin with and I would be surprised to find that it would fail this quickly. But why would water in the connector only affect UHF? Still, the further below freezing, the lower the UHF gets, so if you think this is the smoking gun then I'll take your word for it. While up there, I think I'll still consider an additional UHF boost, but if you think that would be a waste...

Hi Long,

OK, a few things. 20' of RG-6 should *not* cause significant drop of signal on UHF, period. Second, good for you siliconing that connection!!! OK, hmmm. That would be tough to get water in.

You know, it does sound like there's something wrong with that preamp. You have a monster antenna with ~19 dB of gain, high quality connections and a good antenna. Shaking the lines, there's no analog breakup, and I'll trust you have the connectors on tight inside the house.

Let me run this by you and fix what is easy, first.

The setup should be: antenna, connected to the preamp close to the antenna, connected to the powered part of the preamp, then a small jumper to a two-way split...from there, to the two TV's.

1. Check the splitter to make sure (I know, I know) that each cable is connected to the right place. IE, the lead-in from the preamp is connected to the "in" connection on the splitter...makes a huge difference where it is connected. If all is well, ditch the splitter for a test: connect the RG-6 going to the TV with the amp directly, bypassing the splitter. If you still have the same problem, you know the problem is either with the antenna, RG-6 lead in, or the preamp.

2. If #1 didn't help, get a $2 barrel connector from Radio Shack and make a jumper RG-6 cable (even a short RG-59 will be fine for this test). Unscrew the RG-6 from the input of the powered part of the preamp, and connect it directly to the splitter. I don't know how the Winegard amps work in this regard, but if you do this with a ChannelMaster 7777 preamp, the signal will still come through the part on the antenna as a "pass though" without significant attenuation. If you get no signal at all, it sounds like the amp is working at least to a significant degree. If you get approximately the SAME amount of signal, or if the picture cleans up, then the amp is bad!

That's how, in part, I diagnose stuff on the fly. See what all of this does, write it down or keep a good memory of what happens during each test, and then let us know what you see.

Thanks again for the guidance, Gilbert.

I'm never going to be able to diagnose the problem today; it's already warm enough outside that the signal levels on the channels will be at their expected norm. Once the snow melts off the roof and the temperature elevates to a suitable level, I intend to see what the heck is going on up there, and if something is still goofy you'll hear from me again.

Regards

Hi Gilbert,

I am right off of Route 47 between Sugar Grove and Yorkville. I am using am using a Philips preamp with 28db for VHF and ~4db noise for the VHF yagi with about 4 feet of twinlead in between. I am using a ChannelMaster 065 for the UHF yagi. When I look at channel 2 analog there is a lot of wavy interference. According to the KYES copy of FCC handbook this interference can be cause by two-way radio. Since I am literally in the shadow of a radio tower with lots of antennas on it I figured that the RFI must be coming from there. I plan to put the VHF yagi outside when I get some vacation in a few weeks, but I figure that will only increase the amount of RFI since I get so much in the attic on the analog channels.

Put that antenna on the roof outside where it belongs, I am down the road from you on the northeast side of plano and can get WBBM with a Winegard HD8200P and a Ap8275 Preamp on my 1.5 story house. It comes in about 67-69% on my Dish vip 622.

Do you live in a subdivision with a home owners association (HOA)? I know that the FCC regs say I can put up an antenna without the HOA's permission, but I don't want to push my luck. Besides my wife objects to my getting up on the roof and putting holes in it to mount the antenna.

I have been eyeballing the giant (15 foot long) Philips antenna at the Yorkville Menards but it looks kind of flimsy and it might not hold up to the ice and winds around here.

pgartung
Stay away from that Phillips at menards, unless you are putting it in an attic, the wind will tear that antenna up in no time flat, the only antenna's I will put up outside are Channel Masters and Winegards.
I dont live anywhere with any HOA B.S. and I will never, I have a Ham license and also do tv Dxing and even though otard will protect me, I dont feel like dealing with any morons from HOA's. Google Otard and give it to your HOA.

ditto for the winegard. I use the 8200.

By all means, get a Winegard and put it outside where it will work the best. I'm also in Plano and using an outside tower mounted Winegard can pick up WBBM-DT at 75%-85% strength most of the time. I don't remember the model number but it is one step smaller than the 8200. The Philips they sell at Menards is junk. I helped a buddy put one of those up and it came apart during a fairly heavy wind.

nbc ought to be ashamed, and no not talking about the on-air talent or the half-time show.

the compression artifacts (macro-blocks?) were very distracting (100" screen).

doesn't the nfl require their product to be broadcast at a min. bit rate?

I don't remember the model number but it is one step smaller than the 8200.HD 7084P.

nbc ought to be ashamed....
the compression artifacts (macro-blocks?) were very distracting....I have to have the noise reduction up so high on their games that the picture is so smeared over it loses half the detail and looks no better than 420p.

It's disgraceful.

For an outdoor antenna I have been looking at the new antennas tuned for channels 7-69.

What brands and models?

By all means, get a Winegard and put it outside where it will work the best. I'm also in Plano and using an outside tower mounted Winegard can pick up WBBM-DT at 75%-85% strength most of the time. I don't remember the model number but it is one step smaller than the 8200. The Philips they sell at Menards is junk. I helped a buddy put one of those up and it came apart during a fairly heavy wind.

I am using a Winegard Hd8200P with a Rotor and a Winegard Ap8275 Preamp , I can get Cbs 2 at 67-69% on my Dish Vip 622. The antenna you have is a Winegard Hd7084 probably that is a step under the 8200P.

Two I have seen so far are

Winegard HD-7694P
http://www.winegarddirect.com/viewitem.asp?p=HD7694P


Interesting. Comparing the HD7697P to the 8200P specs I don't see a whole lot of difference except the 8200 is a lot wider while the 7697 is over a foot longer.

Interesting. Comparing the HD7697P to the 8200P specs I don't see a whole lot of difference except the 8200 is a lot wider while the 7697 is over a foot longer.

The HD8200P was designed for channels 2-69, while the HD7697P was designed for 7 - 69. The Rear elements of the Hd8200P are a lot longer.

The HD8200P was designed for channels 2-69, while the HD7697P was designed for 7 - 69. The Rear elements of the Hd8200P are a lot longer.

Sure. But look at the specs on channels 7, 32, and 50. They are almost identical.

Defective 8275 Amp?

Yesterday I talked my brother in law (who has climbing gear) into upgrading my 8780 amp to a 8275 that I ordered online. When he replaced the amp I lost all UHF and the VHF stayed the same. Just wondering if anyone has heard of only a portion of an amp being bad. I used the same powersupply and coax for both.

1. Has anyone had this experience before?

2. At 62 miles out will a 8275 help me with WBBM over a 8780?

I researching online the direction need for most Chicago OTA's is 13.3 degrees although at that setting I get poor reception. I acutually need to be around 22-25 degrees get good reception.

3. Is this a common occurance or am I losing signal strength due to terrain?

Thanks for you help

Funny you should ask that question. I'm still asking myself about an 8700 pre amp which is a probable reason why I'm losing close to half my UHF reception when the outside temperature goes below 25. Up til now I've thought that a more likely explanation would involve either over-amplification nulling out the signal meter, or intrusion from the elements. Although the Winegard amps are housed in a weather resistant case, there is an opening at the bottom from which you can touch the circuit board inside, so if water somehow comes upward into the unit...but still this shouldn't be likely given the outdoor nature of the amps otherwise it would be a significant design defect from which others consistently suffer, and this also doesn't seem likely.

FYI I also tried an 8275 amp once from only 25 miles out, and the extra unattenuated VHF boost killed WBBM. The 8275 is one heckuva powerful amp and it's made for people out as far as you. I would think it should prove especially useful to you *if* you can get a signal all the way down there. In fact the more I think about it, the 8275 has almost identical UHF gain as the 8780, the only difference really being more VHF juice. You shouldn't have lost UHF with a newly installed 8275, especially given the distance you are from the towers. With the extra VHF power, you should have also noticed an improvement on that band, although I still question as to whether WBBM-DT exists way down there. If you hook up the old amp and everything's normal, then your new amp is definitely defective.

This is cool!!!!
http://reviews.cnet.com/EchoStar_TR_50_DVR/4660-13855_7-6826151.html

also this is for gilbert and everyone else
Federal Gov't ota tuner Coupon Program

https://www.dtv2009.gov/Default.aspx

This is cool!!!!
http://reviews.cnet.com/EchoStar_TR_50_DVR/4660-13855_7-6826151.html

also this is for gilbert and everyone else
Federal Gov't ota tuner Coupon Program

https://www.dtv2009.gov/Default.aspx

Thanks, Dodge. Since it is being covered extensively on other boards here, I'll keep it off the Chicago board unless more people think it's a good idea.

Phew. Sorry I have been inactive for a few days. I ain't done yet. Today was chaos in my office with the threat of tornadoes, and now a band of heavy rain will move in through the night, with the threat of flooding. Fun!

Thanks, Dodge. Since it is being covered extensively on other boards here, I'll keep it off the Chicago board unless more people think it's a good idea.

Phew. Sorry I have been inactive for a few days. I ain't done yet. Today was chaos in my office with the threat of tornadoes, and now a band of heavy rain will move in through the night, with the threat of flooding. Fun!

Gilbert, the important question in my mind is which of the other threads will you be participating in?

Thanks.

Mark

It's being discussed in the Hardware area (where it belongs).

Gilbert occassionally participates and posts in the Hardware and Programming forums.

I finally tried your suggestion of turning off circuits to see if the interference goes away. I think I have finally tracked the interference down to a flourescent light in a closet. The odd thing is that the flourescent light is on the first floor. Two other identical flourescent lights in closets on the second floor do not seem to cause as much interference. These are NOT compact flourescent lights. These are the straight tube flourescents. The only way to get rid of the interference is to turn off the circuit to the room with the flourscent light in the closet. I guess the balasts on these lights are spewing RF noise even when the light is not turned on. I plan to replace these flourescent lights this weekend to see if the interference gets better. Of course I know that putting the antenna outside would remove the problem, but that is not an option for me.

That'll happen. It's weird. I want to say that it's maybe on the same circuit, but channels 2 and 3 in particular and fluorescents do not get along.

Also, a bad fluorescent (even if it doesn't look to be bad, but just has a decaying self-ballast) will also do that.

The intereference looks like "Filtered Switchmode Interference" as seen here http://www.kyes.com/antenna/interference/filteredps/fpsint.html
It appears on all of the VHF channels but channel 2 is the worst.

Ah, OK, that helps. I actually get that from my computer...and my DSL box. Turn both off, and poof! Away it goes. Wish the computer wasn't underneath the antenna in the attic, but oh well. If you have a cable modem or DSL box and a computer, turn those off and see what happens.

Just saw the rebroadcast of NBC5 news last night at 1am and it was in HD, but most of the off site footage is still in 4:3.
I think I'll still watch ABC7 News since their off site footage is in 16:9 or HD.

Just saw the rebroadcast of NBC5 news last night at 1am and it was in HD, but most of the off site footage is still in 4:3.
I think I'll still watch ABC7 News since their off site footage is in 16:9 or HD.

Really?!? Watching it tonight, it is in SD. Maybe they were doing a test, if what you say is true. Was it really 16:9 HD? Anyone have any snapshots? I'll take a 16:9 TV image from a digital camera...

Really?!? Watching it tonight, it is in SD. Maybe they were doing a test, if what you say is true. Was it really 16:9 HD? Anyone have any snapshots? I'll take a 16:9 TV image from a digital camera...

I'll record it tonight, and if it's really 16:9 I'll post a screen cap tomorrow.

Really?!? Watching it tonight, it is in SD. Maybe they were doing a test, if what you say is true. Was it really 16:9 HD? Anyone have any snapshots? I'll take a 16:9 TV image from a digital camera...
Yeah, I watched the 4:30 news & it was in SD.
Yes last night at 1am it was in HD, trust me b/c the other stuff shot outside of the studio were non-HD in 4:3 format.
I'll keep an eye out and take a picture when it's in HD.

Holy crap, MATR6 was right - the WMAQ news shown at 1:00 am is broadcast in HD. And not only is it in HD, it's a live newscast, not a rerun of their 10:00 pm show! I wasn't paying much attention to it at first, but then Allison Rosati made a comment before Brant's weather segment. She said Brant will let us know what to wear tomorrow... oh wait! It is tomorrow already!

Since the video clips and weather graphics are still 4:3, I'm guessing these 1:00 am broadcasts are rehearsals for whenever WMAQ finally debuts HD news at 10:00 pm. It looks pretty good, and I'm impressed with the clarity of the close-ups on Warner and Allison's faces. If you watch the WLS news, you can tell that they play with the focus and lighting to very subtly smooth out the faces of their anchors. WMAQ may wind up doing that, but last night you could practically count the pores on ol' Warner's face.

Anyway, here are some screen caps. If you want to see the full resolution, non-lossy pics you can check them out here (http://www.flickr.com/photos/fsugino/sets/72157603682122780/detail/).

First up - the opening splash for the news.

http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2143/2183556850_74625eefe0_o.jpg

Next are several Warner and Allison shots.

http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2158/2182771105_a7aaf36470_o.jpg

http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2032/2183556940_f92d047d57_o.jpg

http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2053/2182771335_e27124eaba_o.jpg

The next two are for our resident weather geek, Sebenste. Note that the weather graphics are still 4:3.

http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2408/2183557114_eaec77ea72_o.jpg

http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2170/2182771491_890e8b103c_o.jpg

And finally, the sports. Please ignore the blurry text in the crawl - VLC won't take screen caps if I use the deinterlace function, so this is the best I can do short of taking a picture with my SLR.

http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2243/2183557302_738be89e64_o.jpg

All in all, I'm looking forward to seeing this go live at 10:00 pm!

Looks awesome! I can see the seams on Brandt Millers toupee.

It's about damn time. 3rd largest market in the US with only one station doing HD news. Pathetic.

Once again NBC with it's head up it's a$$. Conan not in HD at the beginning. Good thing I still get the East coast HD feeds.

I knew my eyes weren't lying, and I didn't realize it was LIVE, wow, these anchors are working late nights.
I've always wondered how they do it, working late when there's games on and sometimes they're on at noon the next day.
Can't wait for it to go live, so I have a choice of which news to watch, but Ch. 7's got slightly better looking female anchors. Plus there might be another 'drive thru' at the Ch. 7 studio... LOL

Once again NBC with it's head up it's a$$. Conan not in HD at the beginning. Good thing I still get the East coast HD feeds.
I hate it when they do that, I just stop watching cause its like watching a 20" on my 42" with the letter & window boxing.

I knew my eyes weren't lying, and I didn't realize it was LIVE, wow, these anchors are working late nights.
I've always wondered how they do it, working late when there's games on and sometimes they're on at noon the next day.
Can't wait for it to go live, so I have a choice of which news to watch, but Ch. 7's got slightly better looking female anchors. Plus there might be another 'drive thru' at the Ch. 7 studio... LOL

MATR6,

I have to admit, I thought you were just seeing things. You are dead right! Well, I bet until Brant gets his new weather set, and they smooth the lenses and adjust lighting so that imperfections on people's faces don't show up, this will just be a trial. But now we have to wait until the next day to watch news in HD from WMAQ. And I just missed the 1 AM replay!

Yikes! They ARE live...wow. This must be temporary as a test, for their launch this summer. Maybe their mobile news cameras, trucks, helicopter and such all need to be converted yet. Were any of the taped stories in HD or at least widescreen?

FSugino, thanks for the screen caps, and the weather ones, too! :D

MATR6,

I have to admit, I thought you were just seeing things. You are dead right! Well, I bet until Brant gets his new weather set, and they smooth the lenses and adjust lighting so that imperfections on people's faces don't show up, this will just be a trial. But now we have to wait until the next day to watch news in HD from WMAQ. And I just missed the 1 AM replay!
I just watched it, and it wasn't in HD.. oh well, maybe they're doing it on weeknights or selected dates.
Yeah makes sense on the recording, dumb of me to think they stayed up to rerecord, duh!!!
As for the imperfections on NBC5's anchors, they're not the youngest crew, so HD will make them look real old. :eek: Allison vs Cheryl Burton or Silvia Perez on ABC7, looks so old, even though the age difference might be ~5 years or maybe minority women age better. :D

This must be temporary as a test, for their launch this summer. Maybe their mobile news cameras, trucks, helicopter and such all need to be converted yet. Were any of the taped stories in HD or at least widescreen?

During the nights I watched, all of the remote/taped segments were in 4:3 SD. They didn't have any HD segments aside from the studio shots.

FSugino, thanks for the screen caps, and the weather ones, too! :D

No problem - thought you might get a kick out of 'em.

During the nights I watched, all of the remote/taped segments were in 4:3 SD. They didn't have any HD segments aside from the studio shots.

No problem - thought you might get a kick out of 'em.

Thanks again! Well, now we know that one aspect of their HD upgrade is complete---the in-studio stuff. It might also explain some of the problems they have had over the past year as they upgraded their plant to HD (video switcher, routers, and the like). Now the weather computer needs to be chucked into the garbage, and outfitted with new HD graphics. And then the real biggie...the news cameras and the editing computers/software, and the helicopter. That isn't cheap!

With WBBM also going online this summer, it looks like we will have 3 HD newscasts this year (or 4 if you count PBS). Interesting that FOX has been HD in-house in 2007, they just have no way, right now, to get that up to the Sears Tower and broadcast it out in HD.

I too had assumed that MATR6 had just been imagining things when I read his post the other day, perhaps stretching the content on his screen without realizing it or something. I had a whole shtick about "smoking some good crack that night" prepared for him too, which I almost posted that day. Good thing I didn't. My sincerest almost-apology for doubting you. :D


re: live -

I suspect that they did an hd taping immediately before or after one of the daytime or evening standard news broadcasts and re-broadcasted the HD version later in the overnight. Knowing when it would be aired, the Alison Rosati comment about "let us know what to wear tomorrow... oh wait! It is tomorrow already!" more likely indicates that she forgot when they were going to be seen and caught herself. Alison is a busy mother w/ young-ish kids, I doubt she's pulling overnight duty these days, even for a test run or few.

Allison vs Cheryl Burton or Silvia Perez on ABC7, looks so old, even though the age difference might be ~5 years or maybe minority women age better. :D


Cheryl has hit a bit of a wall too, at least compared to her younger days. In any case, you are comparing the wrong ones. I would put the best of NBC5 up against ABC7. I'm specifically thinking of NBC5's weekend anchorwoman Anna Davlantes (though she has no upper lip and does that stupid "overextend the lipstick" to masquerade that fact) and their sports reporter, Anna Faris (a bit awkward on-air, but man is she a babe. And now.. with mommy boobs! :eek:). It will be interesting to see if they look better or worse under brutal HD scrutiny.

re: live -

I suspect that they did an hd taping immediately before or after one of the daytime or evening standard news broadcasts and re-broadcasted the HD version later in the overnight. Knowing when it would be aired, the Alison Rosati comment about "let us know what to wear tomorrow... oh wait! It is tomorrow already!" more likely indicates that she forgot when they were going to be seen and caught herself. Alison is a busy mother w/ young-ish kids, I doubt she's pulling overnight duty these days, even for a test run or few.

Well, normally I'd think that too, but do you see that Cisco phone on the desk behind Warner and Allison in that second picture? The LCD display on it says it's 1:22am.

Just kidding!! :D HD is good, but not THAT good.

Actually, my proof is in that picture. See that row of monitors behind Warner and Allison? The fifth monitor is showing the Dr. Phil Show - which happens to be on WBBM between 12:30 - 1:30am. Also, the second night I watched, Brant made a comment about there being less than a 0.10 inch accumulation of snow "since midnight" which I take to mean within the last hour or so, not the last twenty-four plus hours.

Wow I go to CES and come back and Miss it... Anyone know when they are airing again? im setting my dvr for the 1am newscasts :)

Wow I go to CES and come back and Miss it... Anyone know when they are airing again? im setting my dvr for the 1am newscasts :)

No idea. I sent a note to Rob Feder asking if he knew anything about these broadcasts, and he replied that he'd look into it.

1ST post for me I think.. I have been a lurker for a long time

I currently have Dish Net with the HD package.. in hopes to save some money for my family I want to cut out Dish for an OTA.. I am the only one that uses Dish. the rest can deal without it. if I can get HD OTA (including WBBM-DT) I would be set, all I would need is some sort of DVR and have been looking for solution but there are not very many.

My HDTV is an Older Toshiba with Component only, no HDMI.

Anyway I am planning on trying an antenna in the attic on the east side ofmy house. if I move it to the roof it will be in the spring/summer. Still I want to try the attic first.

I saw the recommendation of the RS VU-190 if it will fit I would use it, but I have a bunch of inner supports for the roof, I have a few spots to try it so it is an option. I was also considering the VU-90 if at all possible..

I am in a single family home in Bartlett approx 103-105 degrees for reception according to antennaweb I am 28 miles for the transmitters.

My first step was running RG-6 that is done, now I need an antenna

thoughts?

1ST post for me I think.. I have been a lurker for a long time

I currently have Dish Net with the HD package.. in hopes to save some money for my family I want to cut out Dish for an OTA.. I am the only one that uses Dish. the rest can deal without it. if I can get HD OTA (including WBBM-DT) I would be set, all I would need is some sort of DVR and have been looking for solution but there are not very many.

My HDTV is an Older Toshiba with Component only, no HDMI.

Anyway I am planning on trying an antenna in the attic on the east side ofmy house. if I move it to the roof it will be in the spring/summer. Still I want to try the attic first.

I saw the recommendation of the RS VU-190 if it will fit I would use it, but I have a bunch of inner supports for the roof, I have a few spots to try it so it is an option. I was also considering the VU-90 if at all possible..

I am in a single family home in Bartlett approx 103-105 degrees for reception according to antennaweb I am 28 miles for the transmitters.

My first step was running RG-6 that is done, now I need an antenna

thoughts?

Get the biggest one you can fit in the attic. If that doesn't work go with a winegard on the outside but everyone is predicting wbbm going to 12 in 2009. You won't need the 8200 winegard on the outside then.

1ST post for me I think.. I have been a lurker for a long time

I currently have Dish Net with the HD package.. in hopes to save some money for my family I want to cut out Dish for an OTA.. I am the only one that uses Dish. the rest can deal without it. if I can get HD OTA (including WBBM-DT) I would be set, all I would need is some sort of DVR and have been looking for solution but there are not very many.

My HDTV is an Older Toshiba with Component only, no HDMI.

Anyway I am planning on trying an antenna in the attic on the east side ofmy house. if I move it to the roof it will be in the spring/summer. Still I want to try the attic first.

I saw the recommendation of the RS VU-190 if it will fit I would use it, but I have a bunch of inner supports for the roof, I have a few spots to try it so it is an option. I was also considering the VU-90 if at all possible..

I am in a single family home in Bartlett approx 103-105 degrees for reception according to antennaweb I am 28 miles for the transmitters.

My first step was running RG-6 that is done, now I need an antenna

thoughts?


Echostar TR50 HD DVR

1ST post for me I think.. I have been a lurker for a long time

I currently have Dish Net with the HD package.. in hopes to save some money for my family I want to cut out Dish for an OTA.. I am the only one that uses Dish. the rest can deal without it. if I can get HD OTA (including WBBM-DT) I would be set, all I would need is some sort of DVR and have been looking for solution but there are not very many.

My HDTV is an Older Toshiba with Component only, no HDMI.

Anyway I am planning on trying an antenna in the attic on the east side ofmy house. if I move it to the roof it will be in the spring/summer. Still I want to try the attic first.

I saw the recommendation of the RS VU-190 if it will fit I would use it, but I have a bunch of inner supports for the roof, I have a few spots to try it so it is an option. I was also considering the VU-90 if at all possible..

I am in a single family home in Bartlett approx 103-105 degrees for reception according to antennaweb I am 28 miles for the transmitters.

My first step was running RG-6 that is done, now I need an antenna

thoughts?

Hi JD,

Well, you've got a few serious difficulties you will need to overcome. First---I don't know *how* old your TV is, but chances are it may have a 1st to 3rd generation tuner in, which aren't anywhere as sensitive as the latest 6th generation tuners that are out now and coming out later this year.

If you buy a large antenna and do plan to take it outdoors, don't get the Radio Shack VU-190...get one of the others mentioned on page #1. Then, you'll also need a decent amplifier as well, such as the WInegard AP-8275 or the ChannelMaster 7777 preamp. In your case, I would go with the AP-8275 since you would be using an antenna and it is more surge resistant to indirect lightning hits.

Even so, given an older tuner, I make no promises you will get WBBM consistently out in Bartlett with that TV. It's still worth a try in the attic,
but my guess is that if anything, it would have to be in the outdoors.

Do be advised, however, that over a year from now, when they go to channel 12 at high power, you will be able to get them with the setup described above. So I suggest you can wait another year, or go for it and have a 50-50 chance of getting WBBM-DT. It's up to you.

the HDTV is so older it is BEFORE ATSC tuners were in them..

So I have no Tuner, currently I will you the ATSC tuner in my Dish VIP622 Box.

Then as mentioned the Echostar TR50 will be the box I will lean towards.. or I am going to do the HDhomerun and run a HD Media center ( like the SageTV)

But I will wait until the Echostar has listed its price.

So, I will look at the other antennas listed, the Tuner is a VIP622 for now, new tuner is TBD

I have a 25 ft run of RS Gold Series quad shield RG6..

I will be trying this in the next few weeks.

keep the suggestions coming. I will be out of town for the next few days so I probably will get back here until later in the week

Cheryl has hit a bit of a wall too, at least compared to her younger days. In any case, you are comparing the wrong ones. I would put the best of NBC5 up against ABC7. I'm specifically thinking of NBC5's weekend anchorwoman Anna Davlantes (though she has no upper lip and does that stupid "overextend the lipstick" to masquerade that fact) and their sports reporter, Anna Faris (a bit awkward on-air, but man is she a babe. And now.. with mommy boobs! :eek:). It will be interesting to see if they look better or worse under brutal HD scrutiny.

Paula Faris :D

I liked NBC's weekend team of Davlantes, Faris, and Ginger Zee. Now they throw in the male anchor, use Mike Adamle and Ryan Baker on sports; and Pete Sack with weather.

What happened, NBC5? :(

Then as mentioned the Echostar TR50 will be the box I will lean towards.. or I am going to do the HDhomerun and run a HD Media center ( like the SageTV)


If you're comfortable working with computers you can get a used computer on ebay for under $150 and put mythtv on it. Works great with the HDhomerun tuners. Might need a video card unless your TV has a VGA monitor input, if so that's another $50.

They just announced on the NBC5 Morning News that they start in HD tomorrow (and will be moving to the tower for a little bit so they can refresh the studio)

They just announced on the NBC5 Morning News that they start in HD tomorrow (and will be moving to the tower for a little bit so they can refresh the studio)

"Refresh"? Probably "rebuild". But that's fine...

Wow. Wow. Wow. Wow. NBC really kept that under wrap.

Actually, my proof is in that picture. See that row of monitors behind Warner and Allison? The fifth monitor is showing the Dr. Phil Show - which happens to be on WBBM between 12:30 - 1:30am. Also, the second night I watched, Brant made a comment about there being less than a 0.10 inch accumulation of snow "since midnight" which I take to mean within the last hour or so, not the last twenty-four plus hours.

ok, you've convinced me. I retract my statement (about it being taped). Not having seen any/either of these HD broadcasts, I was just surmising based upon the descriptions of them provided within this thread. :cool:

Paula Faris :D

I liked NBC's weekend team of Davlantes, Faris, and Ginger Zee. Now they throw in the male anchor, use Mike Adamle and Ryan Baker on sports; and Pete Sack with weather.

What happened, NBC5? :(

oops, yea.. Paula. I know they had to make some changes when Paula went on maternity leave, but now that she is back, I could do without so much of Adamle. He's always been rather stiff or uncomfortable as a news anchor/reporter. With the return of American Gladiators, maybe they can find him a spot somewhere back on that program. Same network, easy transition, perhaps hosting a "where are they now" segment about former contestants and "gladiators" or something. Anywhere but NBC5 sports. :D

I'm going to put this in the post about OTA reception in the Chicago area. But for you newbies, and for the veterans here, I really appreciate how this is done.

http://ota.winegarddirect.com/

Simple, yet elegant, realistic, and accurate. Throw in your zip code and see what happens.

They just announced on the NBC5 Morning News that they start in HD tomorrow (and will be moving to the tower for a little bit so they can refresh the studio)

I just got a reply back from Rob Feder (Sun-Times)...

He says that as of 4:30pm today all NBC 5 newscasts will be broadcast in HD. I guess we'll see if they have their remote cameras/taped videos/weather graphics in HD as well. I'll post some screen captures if they do.

Rob also said how disappointed he was that WMAQ didn't announce this earlier. Didn't WLS have a couple of weeks worth of commercials touting their upcoming HD broadcasts?

I'm going to put this in the post about OTA reception in the Chicago area. But for you newbies, and for the veterans here, I really appreciate how this is done.

http://ota.winegarddirect.com/

Simple, yet elegant, realistic, and accurate. Throw in your zip code and see what happens.

You couldn't have said it better, simple but elegant. With my eyes the tables from TV Fool and Antennaweb have always been a pain to work with-I have to get out a ruler to get the right info. Also, like the feature that it tells what gain you need for each station. Thanks for the link.

it does look good, but one question and probably a stupid one at that..

the digital channel #'s they provide for each network, what are they based on? I don't recognize any of those channel locations for my OTA reception. For example, they list CW as digital channel "19" when I receive it at "9.1". NBC they list as digital channel "29" when I receive it at "5.1". Every single channel listed is different from the ones I use for my OTA HD for those stations.


What fundamental thing am I missing here?

I just got a reply back from Rob Feder (Sun-Times)...

He says that as of 4:30pm today all NBC 5 newscasts will be broadcast in HD. I guess we'll see if they have their remote cameras/taped videos/weather graphics in HD as well. I'll post some screen captures if they do.

Rob also said how disappointed he was that WMAQ didn't announce this earlier. Didn't WLS have a couple of weeks worth of commercials touting their upcoming HD broadcasts?

It's in HD Bob looks beautiful :rolleyes:

it does look good, but one question and probably a stupid one at that..

the digital channel #'s they provide for each network, what are they based on? I don't recognize any of those channel locations for my OTA reception. For example, they list CW as digital channel "19" when I receive it at "9.1". NBC they list as digital channel "29" when I receive it at "5.1". Every single channel listed is different from the ones I use for my OTA HD for those stations.


What fundamental thing am I missing here?

That's the physical channel they broadcast on. If you don't scan for channels, or if there is a PSIP problem (digital data that tells your TV you are watching 9.1, for example), you know what to tune your TV/box to, and it should still work...so long as they are on the air and you can receive the broadcast strongly enough.

Some technical difficulties on the 4:30 news, no audio on the live broadcast at the Hanna Montana concert and there's a 1-2 sec delay in audio when they switch back.
They need a better background, I can see everyone's desk in HD in the background. :)

Now I think I know why NBC5 didn't promote it. *Local* video is a mix of 4:3, and widescreen, but not HD. Loud crackles in the audio on tape rolls, when they go to commercials (I guess they're going from 5.1 audio to 2.0)...live shot had no audio...definitely bugs and things to work on.

Edit: Whoa! Sounds like a bunch of boxes just fell over and hit the floor hard and made a very loud noise, Sirott laughs it off.

Edit #2: Weather computer graphics are SD.

I'm not trying to be mean here, but WLS went HD the right way. Either get almost all of it in HD, or don't do it. They must really be scared of WLS to launch with this little HD content compared to them. Only the bumper graphics, opening splash, and studio cams are HD. Better than nothing, don't get me wrong...but their HD cameras are so good that you can easily tell what is SD and what is HD.

Well, there's good news and bad news. Yes, the news is in HD and the studio shots look nice and sharp. However, the remote and taped segments look bad. Some of them are still 4:3 SD, some look like 16:9 widescreen, and others look like zoomed 4:3 SD (really blocky). I'll post some screen caps after the 4:30 show is over.

Well, there's good news and bad news. Yes, the news is in HD and the studio shots look nice and sharp. However, the remote and taped segments look bad. Some of them are still 4:3 SD, some look like 16:9 widescreen, and others look like zoomed 4:3 SD (really blocky). I'll post some screen caps after the 4:30 show is over.

yep, they have work to do. Also the HD logo is massive (and one might say something about getting the swirls from ABC7 ;) ). I gave up and went back to Ron Majers :)

Screen caps of WMAQ HD News

Nice, spiffy opening graphics.

http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2376/2193317853_5697255847_o.jpg

http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2091/2194102110_97f0cdec52_o.jpg

Watch out! Big Sister is watching you...

http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2301/2194102004_78e862ce3e_o.jpg

Here's WMAQ's imitation of History Channel HD's patented Squash-o-Vision.

http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2293/2193318409_e32d21ee0c_o.jpg

And then they overcompensate by going the other way. This guy must have a deal to remove 50 lbs. whenever he's on TV. Introducing NBC 5's Squish-o-Vision.

http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2043/2194101880_be5a68ca04_o.jpg

The picture quality wasn't the best. Here's a rather crappy looking network feed.

http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2258/2194101944_751881586a_o.jpg

Here's a remote segment taped in 16:9 widescreen. It's obviously not in HD.

http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2382/2193318481_8375f85ee7_o.jpg

Now the following picture was probably the worst on the broadcast (aside from the helicopter shot), and to me it looks like a 4:3 SD picture zoomed in to fit horizontally. It may be hard to see here, but on the full resolution picture you can really see how blocky it is.

http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2318/2193317503_70c0c399e1_o.jpg

Here's Bruce goofing around in the back. Does he even know he's in the shot?

http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2290/2193318197_37fca1db2b_o.jpg

The weather graphics are still 4:3. They also need to get anti-glare screens for their on set monitors.

http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2141/2194102630_651ddba9bf_o.jpg

The lighting needs a little work, too - both Brant and Bruce look like they're in shadow or only lit on one side.

http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2151/2194102382_ef63f1e41c_o.jpg

Speaking of lighting, the guy in the background needs some powder on his bald head. The reflections were amusing.

http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2165/2193317755_568053ef0a_o.jpg

And finally, a nice closing shot.

http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2316/2193317919_b798a114a4_o.jpg

Does Bruce even know he's in the shot? He wouldn't do that if he knew he could be seen. I betcha that's a 4:3 monitor he's looking at...in which case he'd be justifiably clueless that he's on.

When WLS launched their HD newscast, I gave them an overall grade of 'A'. Everything but national feeds (understandably) were in HD. And even when they travel, WLS somehow generally manages to get an HD or at least a nice looking widescreen feed back to the station when they're in Springfield, or covering a political event in New Hampshire or Iowa, say. Weather graphics were HD and look great. News cameras are 16:9 upconvert, but doggone good ones.

Here's how I see it with NBC 5 as of 1/14/07, and I want them to go to a grade of "A" for their benefit, as well as ours.

THE BAD:

1. It's almost as though NBC forgot to tell some of it's shooters to shoot and edit in 16:9. And not stretchy or scrunch-o-vision. If you can only do true 4:3, don't go to 16-9 letterbox. It makes it look really small. And clashes horribly with the format of the rest of what you are showing.

2. The field/stringer cameras are of inferior video quality than WLS', even though WLS' cameras aren't HD yet (if I recall what the WLS CE said here some time ago). One of those field cameras shown above has quality that looks like the quality my Sony digital 8 video camera puts out. Ouch!

3. Nothing was done to get the helicopter shots or weather graphics in HD. At the bare minimum, everything in studio should have been HD from launch, if nothing else, IMO...

4. The background wasn't checked very well. I see a "traffic cone" to the right and slightly down to Brant Miller's chair in the closing shot, with something partially blocking it in front...a step or bad carpet? Or water leaking in? What's going on there? Whatever it is, it's distracting.

5. It is obvious that the sound equipment used puts out 5.1, and when they switch to 2.0 for commercials, there's a pop/crackle every time. Annoying!
Actually, as I think about it more, it's probably the other way around: commercials and network may be fed as all 5.1, but studio is only 2.0. Hmmm. Something like that. Either way, they have to all be at 5.1 to avoid the crackling when they switch between studio and commercials/network!

THE GOOD:

1. I don't know if they are still adjusting, but please note everyone who slams Weather Plus for taking away bits on their subby: that is DARN GOOD looking HD from their studio cameras! Better looking than (gasp!) WLS, but I suspect that is simply because WLS possibly uses lens masks and tweaks their lighting to keep most of the facial imperfections out of our screen. It could be argued that NBC's cameras are *too good* and that they'll need to do what WLS does to soften the faces of the anchors.

2. Very nice bumper and transition graphics. Colorful, sharp, but not over the top, not flashy. Very well done.

Some of this should have been caught by the rehearsals last week. And yes, I know it is very hard to do an HD production (I've done camera for them myself). But WLS...on-air, anyway...had a launch that was about as seamless as could be expected.

So, I give NBC 5 a launch rating of C-/D+. What really dragged it down for me was the lower quality field cameras, which I would have excused to a considerable degree if they were all native 16:9 and of uneven quality. If that's just a product of "oops, we forgot..." and tomorrow, it's all native 16:9, I bump the grade to a "C", even if the cameras are of uneven quality. The weather graphics not in HD bumped it down a letter grade; it's misleading to call your broadcast HD when only your studio cameras and graphics are. The crackling audio is annoying and knocked it down a half a grade, and then people not knowing they are on air because they can't know...all WLS in-studio monitors are widescreen/HD. It's obvious NBC's are not, which allowed us to see Bruce psyche himself up for the broadcast. That's fine, but he needs to know that so he can do that out of the shot, OR, and I think more appropriately, they need to keep the camera field of view out that corner (preferably) when that part of the set is not in use.

Overall, they have a lot of work to do, but I wish them the best on improving their product, and hoping I can give them an "A" rating someday soon.

My $.02.

I'm going to put this in the post about OTA reception in the Chicago area. But for you newbies, and for the veterans here, I really appreciate how this is done.

http://ota.winegarddirect.com/

Simple, yet elegant, realistic, and accurate. Throw in your zip code and see what happens.

neat they say I need a Winegard GS1100, weird looking bird, that.

also need -20dB (minus20dB) - seeing as i get rock solid reception from ch3 on up, I must have managed to make that loss w/o even trying?

damn i'm good

Some of those screen shots looks like they have been scaled (VC or HE) to work with scope formatt. Hey Gilbert, that link is the cat's a$$. Now I know which antenna to get for my mansion on the left coast:D.
Speaking of OTA, is there a recommended FM antenna (stand alone) other than the one you thumbtack on your wall? I'm in the final stages of my HT and I want to pull in the stations as static free as I can. Thanks, guys.

Watching the ten oclock news here in HD :)

You know, NBC 5 didn't mention the debut of their HD broadcast at all (except for Dick Johnson's passing comment earlier this morning). The only place it's mentioned on their web site is in the blog by the control room guys, and it's one quick mention refering to the 4:30am news.

I really wonder why they pulled the trigger on the HD broadcast when they don't really seem ready for it. There's gotta be a good story behind it... I just wonder what it is.

The February 2008 issue of Chicago Magazine has an interesting article about how the local news stations are dealing with declining viewership, and in it there's this little blurb:

...WGN-Channel 9 has been broadcasting Chicago Cubs, White Sox, and Bulls home games in HD since 2004 and intends to include the teams' away games starting with the 2008 baseball season, says Tom Ehlmann, WGN-TV's general manager.

Way to go WGN!

Some of those screen shots looks like they have been scaled (VC or HE) to work with scope formatt. Hey Gilbert, that link is the cat's a$$. Now I know which antenna to get for my mansion on the left coast:D.
Speaking of OTA, is there a recommended FM antenna (stand alone) other than the one you thumbtack on your wall? I'm in the final stages of my HT and I want to pull in the stations as static free as I can. Thanks, guys.

So you have that large Winegard antenna, eh, that locks WBBM? I've got a terrific secret for ya:

Split the signal to your stereo, and be amazed. :cool: With the amp up there, you boost FM 20 dB over what a dipole would get you...from the roof. Channel 6 is ~87.7 MHZ. That antenna should do you pretty well. If not:

http://www.starkelectronic.com/aps13.htm#9

That'll do it!

hd radio maybe the way to go as most stations are now in digtal. :)

hd radio maybe the way to go as most stations are now in digtal. :)

That's kind of intersting you brought that up. In 2009 when broadcast TV goes 100% digital(rendering analog sets incompatible), then radio must be a different animal. In my car I have a screen crawl (RDS)on my radio which I'm thinking is sent digitally but the music is analog? If radio does go 100% digital, then there sure is going to be a lot of radios in the scrap heap. Or maybe we can get a $40 coupon for a STB for our car stereo:p

We've made some upgrades to our facility recently that will allow us to start providing HD programming (outside of sports). Soon "Comic's Unleashed" (currently airing in SD in the 12:30am slot) will start airing in HD. As other programming (that we currently air in SD) becomes available in HD, we should start switching them over as well. We will also be airing HD commercials (that are available) as well. I don't want to give a difinitave date as the switch over, but it will be soon. Also in the weeks to come, let me know how 26.1 audio sounds. We've made some improvements to it as well. :D

So lemme get this straight. $40 coupon for a STB for our $5 analog head unit? I'll take 12 of 'em.

Seriously, if you think that some old TV's are laughable, just think of what a digital-only transition would do to a lot of the old junk-grade radios out there. No more relying on that long-distance fade to static on the drive to Moline, and kiss Newsradio 780 goodbye on that voyage to Champaign. From what little I know about HD radio, I'd envision that a lot of the digital signal would already drop out before I even hit the Heights. For the sake of us all, I hope they don't turn radio strictly digital anytime soon.

That's kind of intersting you brought that up. In 2009 when broadcast TV goes 100% digital(rendering analog sets incompatible), then radio must be a different animal. In my car I have a screen crawl (RDS)on my radio which I'm thinking is sent digitally but the music is analog? If radio does go 100% digital, then there sure is going to be a lot of radios in the scrap heap. Or maybe we can get a $40 coupon for a STB for our car stereo:p

That's kind of intersting you brought that up. In 2009 when broadcast TV goes 100% digital(rendering analog sets incompatible), then radio must be a different animal. In my car I have a screen crawl (RDS)on my radio which I'm thinking is sent digitally but the music is analog? If radio does go 100% digital, then there sure is going to be a lot of radios in the scrap heap. Or maybe we can get a $40 coupon for a STB for our car stereo:p
I don't know of any plans to terminate analog radio. RDS is just a slow digital signal sent using a subcarrier:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rds

HDRadio is similar, but higher bitrate.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/HD_Radio

I seem to be getting email notifications about posts here, but for some reason they're not showing up here in the thread.

Anyone else having this problem? The last message (before this one) that I see in this thread is from andyross63, posted at 4:49 pm Tuesday.

In 2009 when broadcast TV goes 100% digital(rendering analog sets incompatible)....Analog sets WILL NOT be incompatible!!

Just their NTSC TUNERS will be, and that's only to some extent.

All OTA will very likely not be 100% digital by 2009. There will probably still be some LP analog stations broadcasting in analog. Stations under a certain wattage are not required to switch over by that time.

Also, many cable companies will probably still be broadcasting some in analog form after that date. So it's not like everyone's NTSC tuners will necessarily be rendered obsolete across the board. Many will still be needing and using them.

I get really aggravated when I keep seeing those PSA's on TV that say that people's "TV's may not work anymore" - I can just imagine all these poor, old senior citizens panicking and worrying that they'll have to buy a whole, new TV then. :mad:

I certainly feel better now that this is happening to someone else besides me. :D I was beginning to think it was my TV. My Olevia 537H is doing this too. What's weird is that my two LG tuners (3410 & 3510) and a really old Samsung tuner don't have the stuttering problem. And it only happens during certain shows. The news looks fine.

Last week it was really bad, totally unwatchable. So I called WLS and spoke with one of their engineers. He said they had recently switched over to a new encoder but that I was the first to report the stuttering. He was kind enough to switch back to the old encoder for the night to see if that fixed the problem. It did and I called him back to let him know. They must have switched back to the new encoder because I have been seeing the problem again during the past few days. Since others are seeing this too, I will call him back tomorrow and let him know. He does not monitor the forum.

Can you post that phone number? There's no way I'm going to watch LOST with this stutter. Thanks

We've made some upgrades to our facility recently that will allow us to start providing HD programming (outside of sports). Soon "Comic's Unleashed" (currently airing in SD in the 12:30am slot) will start airing in HD. As other programming (that we currently air in SD) becomes available in HD, we should start switching them over as well. We will also be airing HD commercials (that are available) as well. I don't want to give a difinitave date as the switch over, but it will be soon. Also in the weeks to come, let me know how 26.1 audio sounds. We've made some improvements to it as well. :D


Thanks for the update... I will keep an eye out.. Also, METV on WCIU looked bad a couple of days ago.. Please steal the bandwith from that chinese channel no one watches, and not metv, It would actually be nice if you could drop the chinese channel alltogether. I did notice that METV is on its own channel now (digitally) according to directv, but Im not getting anything out here in manteno.

Thats good news about the comic show, I have tuned to it a couple of times as the guide has shown on my hr 20-700 that it is in hd. Allthough its not, its good news that it will be soon. Now if you can get Directv to add you as a local HD channel you all would be good. D* is currently testing WTTWHD DT1 and it sounds good.

Keep up the good work and if you need any help at the station feel free to pm me as im more than willing to help. :)

OK, now I can say this, with permission...

As you know, WCIU does carry some Cubs and Sox games as well. All the home ones are already in HD, but a birdie told me that they, too, will be broadcasting all away games in HD sometime in the 2008 baseball season. That means not necessarily right away. But, it does mean that at some point this year, every game televised by either team on WCIU will also be HD; Comcast and WGN have already announced that all Cubs/Sox away games carried on their channels will be HD. Hopefully sooner rather than later for WCIU!

...Because after all, we want to see the Sox lose with a crystal clear picture. Oh, hi Ramm! ;) :D

...Because after all, we want to see the Sox lose with a crystal clear picture. Oh, hi Ramm! ;) :D

Could be worse. One could buy a ticket and watch them loose in person. :eek::D

Could be worse. One could buy a ticket and watch them loose in person. :eek::D

lol...too funny...

everyone knows that nobody actually 'buys' tickets to sox games...:p

I posted in this thread a while back about getting an OTA antenna. I have not bought one yet though. I was wondering if the Philips High Performance Amplified Indoor Uhf/Vhf/Fm/HDTV Antenna would be a good choice or not. A picture of it is below. I am located in Naperville on the northwest side and am curious if this will be good and strong enough.
http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/31EmkVmSJNL._AA280_.jpg

Can you post that phone number? There's no way I'm going to watch LOST with this stutter. Thanks

The WLS phone number is 312-750-7592. Ask for the engineering department. You will probably get their machine but leave a message explaining the problem. They may or may not call you back, but they need to hear that others are seeing this.

I know they are looking into a fix, but if they know that this is not an isolated problem, it might help get things resolved more quickly.

By the way, what brand of TV are you seeing this on?