Chicago, IL - OTA [Text View]

sebenste

03-05-07, 07:51 PM

CHICAGO OTA: QUICK INDEX
Scroll down to the desired post, or click to open a new window.

• Post #2 - OTA channel lineup (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=9948405&&#post9948405)
• Post #3 - Broadcast location and power (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=9948418&&#post9948418)
• Post #4 - Longley-Rice signal propogation (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=9948424&&#post9948424)
• Post #5 - How to pick up WBBM-DT and WLS-DT (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=9948641&&#post9948641)
• Post #6 - Helpful links (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=9948893&&#post9948893)
• Post #7 - Essay: 6th gen tuners: picking up weak signal stations (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showpost.php?p=9948909&postcount=7)
• Post #8 - What antenna should I use? (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=9948916&&#post9948916)
• Post #9 - Analog over-the-air broadcasting shutdown in Chicago: How did it happen? (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=9948925&&#post9948925)

Click here for the previous Chicago OTA thread. (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=444398)

sebenste

03-05-07, 07:52 PM

OTA Channel Lineup

Format:
Station Callsign (actual channel assignment)
PSIP remapped channel: Programming - Resolution - Dolby Digital availability

Green indicates HD programming available (either 1080i or 720p resolution)
480i resolution is standard definition, and may or may not be in widescreen format.

HD Stations

WBBM-DT (12)
2-1 : CBS HD - 1080i - DD 5.1

WMAQ-DT (29)
5-1 : NBC HD - 1080i - DD 5.1
5-2 : NBC Plus (weather) - 480i
5-3 : Universal Sports - 480i

WLS-DT (7)
7-1 : ABC HD - 720p - DD 5.1
7-2 : LiveWellHD - 720p - DD 5.1
7-3 : ABC News Now / Accu-Weather - 480i

WGN-DT (19)
9-1 : The CW - 1080i - DD 5.1
9-2 : LATV - 480i - DD 2.0

WTTW-DT (47)
11-1 : WTTW-HD - 720p - DD 5.1
11-2 : WTTW-Prime - 480i
11-3 : PBS Create - 480i
11-4 : V-Me (espanol) - 480i

WYCC-DT (21)
20-1 : WYCC-HD - 1080i - DD 2.0
20-2 : WYCC SD simulcast - 480i
20-3 : MHz Worldview - 480i

WCIU-DT (27)
26-1 : Independent - 720p - DD 5.1
26-2/23-1 : WWME-TV 23 SD simulcast (MeTV) - 480i
26-3/48-1 : WMEU-CA 48 SD simulcast (MeToo) - 480i
26-4 : This TV - 480i
26-6 : FBT (Formerly WFBT-CA) - 480i

WFLD-DT (31)
32-1 : FOX - 720p - DD 5.1

WCPX-DT (43)
38-1 : ION - 720p - DD 2.0
38-2 : Qubo (children's programming) - 480i
38-3 : ION Life - 480i
38-4 : The Worship Network - 480i

WSNS-DT (45)
44-1 : Telemundo - 1080i - DD 2.0
44-2 : WSNS-TV 44 SD simulcast - 480i

WPWR-DT (51)
50-1 : MNTV HD - 720p - DD 2.0

WYIN-DT (17)
56-1 : PBS - 720p - DD 2.0
56-2 : 56.1 simulcast - 720p - DD 2.0
56-3 : 56.1 simulcast - 480i
56-4 : 56.2 simulcast - 480i

Other Digital Stations

WOCK-LD (4)
13-1 : KBC - 480i
13-2 : Revenue Frontiers - 480i

WWME-LD (39)
23-2 : MeTV - 480i
23-3 : That TV with music - 480i
23-4 : That TV - 480i
23-5 : That TV - 480i
23-6 : That TV - 480i
23-7 : That TV - 480i
23-8 : That TV - 480i

WWTO-DT (10)
35-1 : TBN - 480i
35-2 : The Church Channel - 480i
35-3 : JCTV - 480i
35-4 : TBN Enlace (spanish) - 480i
35-5 : Smile of a Child - 480i

WXFT-DT (50)
60-1 : Telefutura - 480i
66-2 : 66-1 SD simulcast - 480i

WCHU-LD (44)
61-1 : Azteca America - 480i
61-2 : WLFM-LP simulcast - 480i

WJYS-DT (36)
62-1 : Independent (Religious/Shopping) - 480i
62-2 : WEDE-CA 34 SD simulcast (Eden/Familynet) - 480i
62-3 : WJYS-Too - 480i

WGBO-DT (38)
60-2 : 60-1 SD simulcast - 480i
66-1 : Univision - 480i

sebenste

03-05-07, 07:53 PM

Broadcast Location and Power

Format:
Station: Broadcast Power - (Digital Channel Assignment) - Network Affiliation

WILLIS TOWER
HD Stations

WBBM-DT : 8 kW - (12) - CBS
WMAQ-DT : 350 kW - (29) - NBC
WLS-DT : 9.5 kW - (7) - ABC simulcasts on 44 in late fall 2009 with 473.3 kw
WGN-DT : 645 kW - (19) - CW drops to 600 kw in 2009, but raises antenna height by ~150'
WTTW-DT : 300 kW - (47) - PBS
WCIU-DT : 160 kW - (27) - IND will raise power to 500 kw eventually, with some vertical polarization
WFLD-DT : 1 MW - (31) - FOX
WCPX-DT : 226 kW - (43) - ION
WSNS-DT : 467 kW - (45) - Telemundo will go to 660 kw in late 2009 or 2010
WPWR-DT : 1 MW - (51) - MNTV

Non-HD Digital Stations
WWME-LD : 4.4 kW - (39) - Ind/METV
(APP)WMEU-LD : 15 kW - (32) - IND/MeToo
WXFT-DT : 230 kW - (50) - Telefutura
WJYS-DT : 50 kW - (36) - IND will go to 145 kw and much less directional in late 2009 or 2010

HANCOCK CENTER
HD Stations
WYCC-DT : 98.9 kW - (21) - PBS

Non-HD Digital Stations
WOCK-LD : 300 W (vhf) - (4) - IND
(APP)WCHU-LD : 300 W (vhf) - (6) - IND
WLFM-LD : 11.3 kw - (44) - IND
(CP)WOCH-LD : 15 KW - (49) - IND
WGBO-DT : 180 kW - (38) - Univision - Currently 180 kw, with 600 kw in late 2009 or 2010

AON Building
Non-HD Digital Stations
(CP)W25CL-LD : 12.5 kW - (25) - Home Shopping Network

HD stations outside of downtown Chicago, but in the market
WYIN-DT : 300 kW - (17) - PBS - Transmitter: Just South of Crown Point, IN

Other Area Stations
Non-HD Digital Stations
WWTO-DT : 16 kW (vhf) - (10) - TBN - goes to 80 kw of power in 2009 - Transmitter: 2 miles SE of Utica, IL
(CP)WMKB-LD : .3 kW - (8) - A1 - Transmitter: Northwestern Kane County, IL
(CP)WSPY-LD : 10 kW - (18) - A1 - Transmitter: Just NW of Plano, IL
(CP)W20CX-LD : 10 kW - (22) - ? - Transmitter: near Schaumburg, IL
(CP)W54BE-LD* : 15 kW - (40) - WAUBONSEE COLLEGE TV - Transmitter: Just N of Sugar Grove, IL
(CP)W57DN-LD* : 15 kW - (57) - TBN - Transmitter: Elgin, IL

NOTES: kW = Kilowatts
MW = Megawatts
DT: Full Power digital station
LD: Low Power digital station
(CP): Construction Permit granted, but not yet on air
(APP): Application to FCC has not yet been approved/disapproved

* CP/flash cut in 2009/2010

sebenste

03-05-07, 07:54 PM

Everyone,

The 41 dBu UHF signal contours, the 28 dB VHF-LO signal contours, and the 36 dBu VHF-HI (channels 7-13) signal contours are just a general idea of what to expect, reception-wise, from a broadcast digital station as shown on the FCC signal maps; those are the minimum amounts of signal the FCC says you need to properly decode them. In actuality, as you all know, terrain and other factors contribute positively or negatively to the quality of the signal you get from a station.

When a station submits a broadcast coverage area map to the FCC for consideration, it uses a calculation known as the Longley-Rice method. This method bases the signal strength coverage of a station on the following factors:

For the broadcasting station:

1. Height of broadcast antenna
2. Power of the transmitter
3. Any "nulls" required by the transmitter to protect other stations

For the broadcast receiver:

4. Any terrain in the way between you and the transmitter
5. A "proper" receiving antenna up 30' in the air, without amplification
6. 50' of complete copper RG-6 cable from the antenna to the receiver

What is NOT considered in Longley-Rice maps:

1. Weather conditions, which can substantially extend or reduce the broadcast area at any given time
2. Interference from buildings, including multipath and signal blocking
3. Interference from electrical sources or anything else for that matter
4. Attic installations, which reduces signal strength by at least 50% in most cases
5. Antennas larger or smaller than "proper"
6. Signal amplifiers/preamplifiers placed on antenna systems

Having said that, a site came online back in 2007 that helps you determine signal strength via Longley-Rice maps, and they are updated frequently at Andy Lee's great site:

http://www.tvfool.com

Enjoy!

sebenste

03-05-07, 08:16 PM

WHAT'S THE PROBLEM?

All but two full-power stations here in the Chicago TV market broadcast on UHF. WLS-DT broadcasts physically on channel 7; their PSIP data also shows 7.X as their channel number. WBBM-DT, once a hard-to-get analog and digital station, became much easier to get when they moved to channel 12 and at nearly double their power. They came from channel 3, which was subject to much interference.

The problem is that a standard UHF antenna likely cannot get these two channels. Thankfully, a relatively easy solution for many people is at hand.

You need to have a VHF-HI/UHF "combination" antenna. This type of antenna picks up channels 7-13, as well as channels 14-51. Close in, less than 30 miles away, depending on your line-of-sight to Sears Tower, a pair of "rabbit ears" with a "loop" UHF antenna MIGHT be all you need. If not, you'll need something stronger. People have reported success with indoor antennas such as this all the way out to Joliet, but beyond I-294, it will be a tougher go.

Here are some *suggested* antennas for picking up all VHF-HI channels (note, this is NOT an endorsement, in any way, of any of these products; I may have used some of them, but I *personally* trust these brands, even if I haven't tried the model.

Suburbs out to route 59:

Winegard HD7082p

Suburbs beyond route 59 to Kenosha County, or DeKalb, or to past Kankakee, or to Renssalaer, IN, or to Laporte county, IN:

Winegard HD7084p
Winegard HD8200p (better for outdoor use, sturdier than 7084p)
Channelmaster 4228HD

With these on a rooftop at 30 miles, reception out to 70 miles should be decent. Exception: WBBM-DT has a slight null to the east, so range may be a little less.

For indoor antennas, these are good articles:

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=1037779
http://www.tvtechnology.com/article/79862

sebenste

03-05-07, 08:47 PM

Helpful Links

Other Chicago AVS Threads

Chicago, IL - DBS (satellite TV) (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=579650&goto=newpost)
Chicago, IL - Comcast (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=255885&goto=newpost)
Chicago, IL - RCN (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=446495&goto=newpost)
Chicago, IL - AT&T (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=781753&goto=newpost)
Chicago, IL - WOW (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=502618&goto=newpost)

Gilbert's geeky list of favorite DTV links

William Hepburn's Tropo forecast!
(http://www.dxinfocentre.com/tropo.html) Want to get out of market stations? If this forecast based on weather computer models is reasonably correct, areas shaded in the appropriate colors
will be active. If the general area of tropo is oriented more west-east, watch for Quad Cities, Rockford, and South Bend stations. If towards the northeast, watch for Milwaukee and Grand Rapids. In either case, it isn't foolproof, but if you're in a color beyond just weak tropo, keep an eye out!
My list (Gilbert) of stations and their power, network affiliation channel and network affiliation (http://weather.niu.edu/dtvstations.xls). Excel spreadsheet. Hope you enjoy it!

sebenste

03-05-07, 08:49 PM

6th generation tuners...the solution to getting weak signal stations?

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Back on December 19, 2007, I had the unexpected opportunity to install an HDTV for a fellow church member on the far northeast side of DeKalb. A few months earlier, to improve his reception and prepare him "someday" for an over-the-air digital converter box, I added a ChannelMaster 7777 preamplifier. He has a VHF/UHF Winegard combo antenna on a 30' tower using RG-6 cable except for a 2' RG-59 jumper; it's about 15 years old, and only the VHF portion of the antenna is used. It's diplexed with a ChannelMaster 4228 UHF antenna, installed at the same time, pointed at Rockford. I warned him: with all but two Chicago stations currently on UHF, and with the UHF antenna pointed at Rockford, most Chicago stations won't come in. And, WBBM-DT will be a no-show until 2009, and WWTO-DT from Utica, IL on channel 10 (just southeast of Starved Rock State Park) won't come in, because he is due north of the station by 45 miles, with the antenna pointed east towards Chicago. He can also lock PSIP on Milwaukee's FOX station on channel 33, even with a low power 33 in Rockford (and the antenna pointed at Rockford, of course)!

What I didn't know was that he decided to buy an HDTV that I recommended to him with an apparent 6th generation tuner. And after a Bible study, I found myself up late into the evening putting in the TV, and then checking out the reception, which blew me away!

From ~55 miles out, he has a rock-solid lock on WBBM-DT. When I mean rock-solid, the signal strength is 4 bars out of 4 on his new Initial brand HDTV! He has NO impulse noise breakups, except during a thunderstorm on December 22nd, when they occurred "one every great once in a while". And 3.5 bars out of 4 on WWTO-DT! All Rockford and most Chicago stations come in, but he cannot lock WYCC-DT and WCIU-DT. This is from major analog interference from two high-powered analogs in Madison, WI causing the inability to lock. He can lock all the other Chicago stations just fine.

Then, I got a report this morning from another gentleman who did an HD install near Elburn. With lots of electrical interference and snow on WBBM-TV analog, he, too, was still able to lock in WBBM-DT solid! It reportedly left him amazed, to say the least!

Up until now, I haven't had experience with 6th gen tuners, but had heard of their extreme sensitivity. Most DTV tuners need a signal to noise ratio of 20:1 to have a solid lock; go down to 19:1, and the picture breaks up. 15.7:1 is the theoretical limit, and these tuners reportedly go right up to it! This is not trivial: the improvement from signal reception alone is 66%+! Plus, the tuner chip features slightly to somewhat improved performance from interference and multipath, causing an even greater improvement! Those of you who are thinking about getting a second or third HDTV or your first one...and plan to use OTA reception...5th or 6th generation tuners are a must, in my mind (every tuner I know out there sold these days is at least 5th gen). But for WBBM reception, I now strongly recommend a TV with a 6th gen tuner. Those absolutely known to have it are:

1. All LG HDTVs that are 2007 models and later (note: Insignia brand HDTV's, made by LG, and sold exclusively at Best Buy, still only have 5th gen tuners!)

2. All LG/Zenith DTV digital converter boxes that are "coupon approved" by the FCC DTV converter box coupon program

3. All Mitsubishi 2008 HDTV models

Since most HDTV's use LG made tuners (they hold the patent), look for 6th gen tuners to sprout in off-brand and other name-brand models. I cannot confirm 100% the Initial branded TV having it, but the reception is way beyond anything I have ever seen. And if you want WBBM-DT reception, there are still no guarantees...but it substantially increases your chances of getting it with these latest generation tuners.

With a 30' high large antenna and amplifier, when WBBM goes high power on 12 and WLS goes high power on 7 in 2009, you'll be able to get both these stations, I'm thinking, in Rockford, and maybe beyond with a 6th gen tuner!

______________
Gilbert

sebenste

03-05-07, 08:49 PM

This post should not be construed as an endorsement by myself, AVSForum, or anyone else. I found this to be convenient and helpful for newbies to over-the-air reception on what antenna they may need. For specific antenna recommendations, please post in this forum, and we'll do what we can to help.

First, a general signal strength map from the FCC:

http://www.fcc.gov/dtv/markets/

And a breakdown of distance and direction by channel:

http://ota.winegarddirect.com/

sebenste

03-05-07, 08:50 PM

This post is a record of what full-power analog and digital stations did on June 12, 2009...the day analog over-the-air broadcasting was shut off.

WBBM-TV/DT 2.1: WBBM-TV analog stayed on until noon on 6/12/09. At noon, they changed to channel 12 from their channel 3 slot. They are using the old WTTW-TV analog antenna, and installed a new transmitter.

WMAQ-TV/DT 5.1: They shut the analog station down on 6/12/09 at noon. The digital channel was completely built out and at full power on channel 29, so there were no changes there.

WLS-TV/DT 7.1: Flash-cut from channel 52 to channel 7 on 6/12/09 at noon, using 4.75 kw of power.

WGN-TV/DT 9.1: They shut the analog station down on 6/12/09 at 11:59:59 pm. The digital channel was completely built out and at full power on channel 19, but dropped power to 600 kw (a roughly 50 kw drop) so that it can go 150' higher on Sears Tower in the summer of 2009.

WTTW-TV/DT 11.1: They shut the analog station down on 6/12/09 at 5:59 AM. The digital channel was completely built and at full power on channel 47, so no changes there.

WYCC-TV/DT 20.1: They shut off on 4/16/09. The digital channel is completely built out and at full power on channel 21, so no changes there.

WCIU-TV/DT 26.1: They shut the analog station down on 6/12/09 at 11:59:40 pm. The digital channel stays on channel 27, but boosts power to 600 kw in summer 2009.

WFLD-DT 32.1: They shut the analog station down on 6/12/09 in terms of programming but continued until June 26 as a "night light". The digital channel is completely built out and at full power on channel 31.

WWTO-DT 35.1: They shut down on 4/16/09. They will move their digital broadcast antenna to the top of their tower, once the analog broadcast antenna is removed in summer. They
will go to 80 kw at roughly 1400' sometime in 2009.

WCPX-DT 38.1: They shut the analog station down on 6/12/09 at noon. The digital channel is completely built and they did a slight power increase on channel 43.

WSNS-DT 44.1: They shut the analog station down on 6/12/09 at 11:59:59 PM. The digital channel is built out on channel 45, but they will be going to 660 kw after 6/12/09.

WPWR-DT 50.1: The analog signal shut down on 6/12/09 at 11 PM; the digital channel is completely built and at full power on channel 51, so no changes there.

WYIN-DT 56.1: They shut the analog station down on 6/12/09 at 11:59:59 PM. The digital channel is completely built and at full power on channel 17, so no changes there.

WXFT-DT 60.1: They shut down on 6/12/09 at midnight. They went from channel 59 to channel 50, and increased power to 230 kw.

WJYS-DT 62.1: They shut the analog station down on 6/12/09 at 11:59:59 PM. The digital channel is built out on channel 36. However, they will go to a much less directional antenna, and increase power to 145 kw later in 2009.

WGBO-DT 66.1: They moved to channel 38 at 11 PM, and will go to 600 kw later in 2009.

sebenste

03-05-07, 08:50 PM

is reserved for future use.

sebenste

03-05-07, 08:51 PM

For future use.

sebenste

03-05-07, 08:54 PM

Welcome everyone to the latest saga of the Chicago OTA board! Because of the massive amounts of posts on the previous board which is starting to burden the server, those will be archived...and we start afresh with new, easy-to-follow posts on the first page on our market, including station lists, power/transmitter info, Longley-Rice maps, and even an essay on WBBM-DT, or more specifically, how to get it.

Enjoy, and welcome back to our discussion of all things Chicago-OTA!

CPanther95

03-05-07, 09:07 PM

Very nice job Gilbert.

FSugino

03-05-07, 09:15 PM

Hi Sebenste,

Nice job so far - at least it'll help centralize this info.

One suggestion: can you post the broadcast resolution (e.g. 720p) next to each channel listed? That question usually comes up from newbies.

Thanks,

- Frank

greywolf

03-05-07, 09:50 PM

Since I just look for the black dots when checking this forum, this will do that.

moxie1617

03-05-07, 09:54 PM

Good Job. Nice to have a reference in one spot instead of having to search.

mudba

03-05-07, 11:14 PM

Hello All.

I'm in downtown Chicago between the hancock and the sears and have had a real annoying time with the signals and lately it's gotten even worse.

I'm at the corner of Illionis and McClurg using two small antennas like the "AUDIOVOX - audiovox directional indoor uhf/vhf hdtv "

I placed them both in my cieling and ran some fairly cheap cables back to my HD TV. joining them together before running down my wall.

Here is my review
ABC- PERFECT
NBC- PERFECT
CBS- Patchy - WAS GOOD BEFORE, but has gotten worse now.
WGN - NOTHING
WTTW- GOOD
WPWR-GOOD
WCIU-GOOD
FOX-NOTHING, had service, but I lost it a couple weeks ago

I'm getting frustrated, but still not enough to call RCN

I'm sure their is more information needed to help, but let me know and I'll provide more information.

Thanks for any help

cheer

03-05-07, 11:43 PM

Love the new thread, Gilbert -- and I love the detailed intro posts; especially the WBBM one. Great stuff!

sebenste

03-06-07, 12:05 AM

Love the new thread, Gilbert -- and I love the detailed intro posts; especially the WBBM one. Great stuff!

Thanks everybody! And thanks to Cpanther for letting me do this. That was way cool! By request above, I did add the resolution (1080i, 720p, 480i) to each channel and subchannel. And I cleaned up some typos, spelling errors, poor grammar, and other goodies since I had to do this in a hurry. If you see anything wrong, please let me know, and I'll fix it ASAP.

Now let's get started! Mudba says:

Hello All.

I'm in downtown Chicago between the hancock and the sears and have had a real annoying time with the signals and lately it's gotten even worse.

I'm at the corner of Illionis and McClurg using two small antennas like the "AUDIOVOX - audiovox directional indoor uhf/vhf hdtv "

I placed them both in my cieling and ran some fairly cheap cables back to my HD TV. joining them together before running down my wall.

Sounds like those cheap cables are doing you in. Because you are so close to the towers, interference and bad weather, and signal from the stations themselves may be sneaking into that cheap cable. Especially where you are, you need to use the best RG-6 quad-shielded cable possible. Signal strength will not be an issue for you.

Second, where you are, you are probably getting severe "multipath". On analog TV, that shows up as "ghosts". Tuners don't like that at all. Try to put the antenna as close to an outside wall to minimize them.

greywolf

03-06-07, 09:42 AM

Using two antennas connected is asking for multipath interference. Unfortunately, an omnidirectional antenna can be just as bad. Experiment with antenna location as well as aim. A simple combination bowtie for UHF and long rabbit ears for VHF set perpendicular to a line between the Sears and Hancock may be your best bet. An Radio Shack variable attenuator might be useful to cut down the off axis reflections while allowing enough of the on axis signal through.

WillieAntenna

03-06-07, 09:52 AM

WillieAntenna

03-06-07, 09:56 AM

Very nice job Gilbert.

CPanther95, Yes, indeed Gilbert did a nice well done job and updating the info and thanks to you for suggesting and letting Gilbert to renew the Chicago-OTA thread

I would like to make a motion to nominate Gilbert to be a “Special Contribution Member” to the new Chicago-OTA thread.

All other member on the Chicago-OTA has been helpful too and I thank them also, but Gilbert has put a lot of time and work on this new thread and been helpful on the old thread on his own time.

-Willie

sebenste

03-06-07, 11:45 AM

Gilbert, Nice work on the new Chicago-OTA thread. May I suggest adding analog & digital channel number in the post #3. So if new person moves in the Chicago area will know. Maybe also adding that all station will stay at the now assign digital channel and highlight with different color of they going to different channel after 2-17-09 analog shutdown just like you have now for the WBBM going to ch 11 VHF-high and WLS back to 7 VHF-high.

Keep up with the good work! :)

-Willie
Hi Willie,

Thanks! Actually, I do have the analog numbers in there in parenthesis, with a "-1" after it. I could separate it, but it is redundant and could be confusing. As for highlighting it...good idea, but that will take time. Very busy this week. Keep the suggestions and comments coming!

epsilon

03-06-07, 11:57 AM

Congrats on the newly reorganized thread and, FWIW, WCPX has two more subchannels: 38.5 - i West & 38.6 - TLN.

sebenste

03-06-07, 12:03 PM

Congrats on the newly reorganized thread and, FWIW, WCPX has two more subchannels: 38.5 - i West & 38.6 - TLN.

Hi Epsilon,

Thanks! Also, FYI, TLN chose not to renew their contract with PAX to carry it, and I-West was taken off WCPX-DT as well.

mather

03-06-07, 12:16 PM

Excellent job with this new thread Gilbert. For once I'm in the beginning of a thread instead of having to tread through hundreds of pages.

epsilon

03-06-07, 01:39 PM

Also, FYI, TLN chose not to renew their contract with PAX to carry it, and I-West was taken off WCPX-DT as well.
You are, of course, correct :) I just went by what the psip reported and didn't pay attention to the content. There is a signal on .5 and .6 but they appear to be mirroring qubo and ION Life, respectively.

mudba

03-06-07, 07:56 PM

Now let's get started! Mudba says:

Sounds like those cheap cables are doing you in. Because you are so close to the towers, interference and bad weather, and signal from the stations themselves may be sneaking into that cheap cable. Especially where you are, you need to use the best RG-6 quad-shielded cable possible. Signal strength will not be an issue for you.

Second, where you are, you are probably getting severe "multipath". On analog TV, that shows up as "ghosts". Tuners don't like that at all. Try to put the antenna as close to an outside wall to minimize them.

Hello All. Wow you guys are good. I purchased a 50 Foot quad shield cable tonight and played with my antenna placement again. Here is an update with the number of bars my TV says it's receiving

CBS- 4 BARS -PICTURE IS STABLE - Much Better
NBC- 4 BARS -PICTURE IS STABLE - Same
ABC- 3 BARS - 90% STABLE -Slight downgrade than before
WGN-0 Bars. Nothing Coming in - SAME
WTTW -3 BARS -PICTURE IS STABLE - SAME
FOX - 2 Bars - 90-95% Improvmeant - Much Better

I'm still have two antennas in my cieling and have some RCN issued coax cable going from the combiner to each antenna. These cables are less than 3 feet long each. Do you think changing these cables out will make a difference?

I'm almost scared to mess with it anymore

sebenste

03-07-07, 12:36 AM

Hello All. Wow you guys are good. I purchased a 50 Foot quad shield cable tonight and played with my antenna placement again. Here is an update with the number of bars my TV says it's receiving

CBS- 4 BARS -PICTURE IS STABLE - Much Better
NBC- 4 BARS -PICTURE IS STABLE - Same
ABC- 3 BARS - 90% STABLE -Slight downgrade than before
WGN-0 Bars. Nothing Coming in - SAME
WTTW -3 BARS -PICTURE IS STABLE - SAME
FOX - 2 Bars - 90-95% Improvmeant - Much Better

I'm still have two antennas in my cieling and have some RCN issued coax cable going from the combiner to each antenna. These cables are less than 3 feet long each. Do you think changing these cables out will make a difference?

I'm almost scared to mess with it anymore

Yep. Severe multipath is likely causing the problems for you on WGN. WLS is coming in less strongly because it was likely getting a little signal through your leaky coax! Replace the short cables if they are "cheap". Then, your job is to remember where the antenna is now, and play with it to see what offers you the best signal, now that you are using good cable.

Rammitinski

03-07-07, 04:54 AM

So what's the story on WOCH-LP?

Are they going bye-bye, or are they just not listed because there's no official word yet?

sebenste

03-07-07, 11:00 AM

So what's the story on WOCH-LP?

Are they going bye-bye, or are they just not listed because there's no official word yet?
WOCH-LP, along with two other broadcasters, applied for channel 49. Until that is squared away, I elected to keep them off until an FCC highest bidder auction determines who gets that channel.

hvs10trk

03-07-07, 01:12 PM

Yep. Severe multipath is likely causing the problems for you on WGN. WLS is coming in less strongly because it was likely getting a little signal through your leaky coax! Replace the short cables if they are "cheap". Then, your job is to remember where the antenna is now, and play with it to see what offers you the best signal, now that you are using good cable.
AMEN Gilbert!!! Right in between the "towers" is the worst place for reception. (Aside from our transmitter room :eek: ) Stations on the Hancock have the worst multipath because the reflect right off sears tower.

Rammitinski

03-08-07, 02:44 AM

WOCH-LP, along with two other broadcasters, applied for channel 49. Until that is squared away, I elected to keep them off until an FCC highest bidder auction determines who gets that channel.Well, OK then :).

Thanks.

GG386

03-08-07, 11:30 PM

heisman

03-09-07, 01:25 AM

Is there a reason CBS chooses to send their signal via VHF instead of UHF like everyone else? Did they screw up, or are they just being stubborn? I can't imagine they wouldn't want to be in as many households as everyone else.

epsilon

03-09-07, 01:27 AM

Rammitinski

03-09-07, 03:31 PM

Gilbert,

Way to go! Great format, get's right to the point. Haven't looked at the forum for a couple of days, we needed a good house cleaning!

Boy that 11.4 is painful.

Everything down here has been spot on, even with some of that nasty stuff we had a couple of weeks ago. Again, thanks for all your advice and hard work.I have been observing 11-1 carefully since the addition, and I have definitely come to the conclusion that 11-4 also borrowed some bits from that channel, as I can regularly see a bit more obvious artifacting than was ever noticable before. It's not terrible and a huge amount, but I've got a 50" screen now, and I am definitely able to see a difference from before and after.

I was A/B'ing Pt. 1 of the Frampton concert last night with Pt. 2, which I had on my Sony DVR, and I was able to notice it with that. Also, like I said in a previous post (which I believe is in the old thread now), I have been noticing the "creeping fog" effect in dark scenes to be a bit stronger on certain broadcasts. Not anywhere near as bad as my SD E* channels, of course - NOTHING is THAT bad - but noticable to my acute eye, nonetheless.

As far as 11-2 and 11-3 being noticably worse, well - I don't even think anyone would need a "trained eye" to come to that conclusion :rolleyes: . Heck, even Gilbert, who usually doesn't admit to those sorts of things (other than with WBBM - which there's no gettin' around), couldn't help but notice and admit to it ;). (Couldn't resist that one :p. Seriously - keep up the good work :cool:.)

sebenste

03-09-07, 06:03 PM

As far as 11-2 and 11-3 being noticably worse, well - I don't even think anyone would need a "trained eye" to come to that conclusion :rolleyes: . Heck, even Gilbert, who usually doesn't admit to those sorts of things (other than with WBBM - which there's no gettin' around), couldn't help but notice and admit to it ;). (Couldn't resist that one :p. Seriously - keep up the good work :cool:.)
Thanks! I can even notice it a bit on my oldie 26" TV. Ugh, ugh, ugh. I saw 11-4 for the first time last night. Ugh...

jmdomini

03-09-07, 07:32 PM

That was certainly true in the beginning, but they sure haven't made any effort to improve the situation.

It's not by choice, that's the channel they were allocated.

GG386

03-09-07, 09:20 PM

I get ch.5 and 7 using there air space for there weather channels, road reports, public service, and self promotion of there programming but what's up with 2 and maybe 32 with some type of sub programming also? I know we've discussed the Tube (9.2) already- so if they can do it why not 2 or 32?

On the other side of the coin, we have 35 which has 5 channels and 38 with another 4. -what gives? Are they not considered part of the Chicago market?

WBBM probably doesn't have enough snort to broadcast another channel, but 32 sure could put something out there to add to our viewing pleasure, or is there more to it. Personally, I like the Tube but those bean counters may have a different opinion :rolleyes:

O.K., look at 20.2 with color bars. Why not broadcast replays of Louie, Louie by the Kingsman 24-7 instead of those damn bars. :D

moxie1617

03-09-07, 09:45 PM

sebenste

03-09-07, 10:20 PM

You mean so that they can give us great picture quality like WTTW, boy I can't wait for that!!! :eek:

When done right, subs with HD can be done well (see WLS, WCIU). There is room
for 4:3 and widescreen non-HD; there's a lot of junk in HD as well as good stuff, just as there is 4:3.

I love Weather Plus, and so do others...but others dislike it a lot as well. I would give up HD bandwidth for better programming. However, in many cases the two don't go along with each other. 11-1 and 11-2...keep it at that, and put 11-3 and 11-4 on 20-2 and 20-3. In any event...I know we have the HD purists and those who don't mind subs as long as they show something good.

Rammitinski

03-10-07, 04:27 AM

I love Weather Plus, and so do others...but others dislike it a lot as well. I would give up HD bandwidth for better programming.......In any event...I know we have the HD purists and those who don't mind subs as long as they show something good.I don't mind weather plus myself - it's just that I think that one, really good weather sub is all we really need. As far as giving up HD bandwith for more subs with good content, I'm all for that - except they should keep them off of the networks that show a lot of motion and show sports - particularly pro and college games. That means NO subs whatsoever (even weather) on 2,5,7,9,26 or 32 (those horrible looking high school basketball games on 26-2 don't count - they're not all that important, and they're on a sub). The one channel that they should be stickin' them on for sure should be 50. Maybe stick The Tube and the weather on there, and forget about ABC+ altogether - everything on there is rerun from the main channel anyway.

They could also put on something worthwhile in place of that completely useless, bandwith-waster 38-4. (I don't know which of their subs it actually is, but everytime I've flipped past it for the last week they've had on that stupid, "Perricone Prescription" infomercial.)

As far as WTTW, I wouldn't even bother with any suggestions there - they're obviously just gonna do as they please anyway.

At least, that's what I'd do if I were king :).

GG386

03-10-07, 11:47 AM

At least, that's what I'd do if I were king :).

Hey, Hey,
You've got my vote ;)

moxie1617

03-10-07, 12:05 PM

As far as WTTW, I wouldn't even bother with any suggestions there - they're obviously just gonna do as they please anyway.

You know, I think they even did what they pleased when the added 11-3. With this move I really don't believe they had their engineers ( who I ranted on is incompetent) "evaluate" the quality of the programming on 11-1 after the addition of 11-3. I think they just told them to do it. To the WTTW engineers, I apologize. To WTTW management, I really didn't appreciate your solicitation for your Annual Fund. You may kiss off.

Ramm, you got my vote too.

heisman

03-10-07, 01:07 PM

It's not by choice, that's the channel they were allocated.

Obviously, I don't understand how any of this works. But, I just can't believe I can get every OTA channel in Chicago with a lousy $5 antenna that I shoved into a closet, but I would need a building permit and $400 to get CBS. You would think they would have a little more power than that.

sebenste

03-10-07, 01:43 PM

Obviously, I don't understand how any of this works. But, I just can't believe I can get every OTA channel in Chicago with a lousy $5 antenna that I shoved into a closet, but I would need a building permit and $400 to get CBS. You would think they would have a little more power than that.

Heisman,

LOL! Briefly, here's what happened:

WBBM was given channel 3 as their initial digital channel. They tried to buy WYCC's allocation of channel 21, but WYCC wanted too much money. Then,
they appealed to the FCC for more power on channel 3, citing hardship. They also went to WTTW and negotiated to transmit on channel 11; but due to surrounding stations broadcasting on 11, they can only go to 1,180 watts. In the interim,WBBM-DT got a whopping 4,400 watts total for their efforts on channel 3.

There is a very slim chance that under the last phase of round 3, they might have filed a different channel request. Of the 46 stations still on channels 2-6 after analog shutdown in 2009, at least two (according to the FCC) appealed to extend the deadline to switch channels. This also goes for stations who are unable to power up fully due to interference from other stations; WBBM falls into that category. The extension for both ended on February 26, 2007. We now await the outcome to see which of those 46 channels decided to get off channels 2-6, and which ones who had interference jumped to another channel. The FCC should be announcing those at any time. I am not holding my breath.

R Johnson

03-10-07, 02:41 PM

I have issues with WTTW, but I would like counterbalance all the negativity about 11-1. I have the LG3100 tuner from about 3 years ago, and am now using the Samsung DT-H260F tuner. (Much more robust reception, BTW.) I'm in a near north side high rise condo with an indoor Silver Sensor antenna. I'm running at 1080i component to a 1280x720 Mitsubishi HD1000 DLP projector on an 87" diagonal screen. I'm viewing from about 12 feet away - about 2 screen widths.

A couple years ago when there was just 11-1 and 11-2, I felt that 11-2's quality was such that it was not worth watching on my projector. I used an 800x600 (800x450 effective) Infocus X1 at that time. When 11-3 was added and 11-1 went to 720p, I thought 11-1 still looked good on the X1. Neither 11-2 or 11-3 was worth projecting.

Now 11-4 has been added. Naturally 11-2, 11-3 and 11-4 look pretty poor on the HD1000 projector. However 11-1 still looks very good to me, depending on the program. It's usually quite apparent which programs are really HD. For instance, last night I watched the IMAX film "The Magic of Flight" on 11-1. It looked VERY good. I recently watched "Nature : Penguins of the Antarctic" and found it quite interesting, though not really HD level video quality. Rudy Maxa's travel shows usually looks very good, as does Rick Steves' (when his camera doesn't pan too rapidly).

While the music on "Soundstage" is usually not to my taste, the visual quality is quite satisfactory on my system. I'm eagerly anticipating next Wednesday's showing of The Magic Flute from the Metropolitan Opera. I saw this in the movie theater when it was shown live on 12/30/06. I fully expect the WTTW 11-1 version to look better than the theater's showing.

I'd like to check out specific shows on 11-1 which some of you have complaints about. I suspect most of the issues are source related. But then, I didn't have HD equipment in the glorious old days of only 11-1 (at 1080i) and 11-2.

heisman

03-10-07, 03:06 PM

Heisman,

LOL! Briefly, here's what happened:

WBBM was given channel 3 as their initial digital channel. They tried to buy WYCC's allocation of channel 21, but WYCC wanted too much money. Then,
they appealed to the FCC for more power on channel 3, citing hardship. They also went to WTTW and negotiated to transmit on channel 11; but due to surrounding stations broadcasting on 11, they can only go to 1,180 watts. In the interim,WBBM-DT got a whopping 4,400 watts total for their efforts on channel 3.

There is a very slim chance that under the last phase of round 3, they might have filed a different channel request. Of the 46 stations still on channels 2-46 after analog shutdown in 2009, at least two (according to the FCC) appealed to extend the deadline to switch channels. This also goes for stations who are unable to power up fully due to interference from other stations; WBBM falls into that category. The extension for both ended on February 26, 2007. We now await the outcome to see which of those 46 channels decided to get off channels 2-6, and which ones who had interference jumped to another channel. The FCC should be announcing those at any time. I am not holding my breath.

Very intriguing! I appreciate the thorough explanation. I won't hold my breath either, but they should really be ashamed of themselves IMHO.

sebenste

03-10-07, 04:20 PM

They could also put on something worthwhile in place of that completely useless, bandwith-waster 38-4. (I don't know which of their subs it actually is, but everytime I've flipped past it for the last week they've had on that stupid, "Perricone Prescription" infomercial.)

That's actually 38-3, the Ion Life network. Haven't had a chance to look at it yet.

As far as WTTW, I wouldn't even bother with any suggestions there - they're obviously just gonna do as they please anyway.

At least, that's what I'd do if I were king :).
Well, king, I'm gonna crown ya...

WMVT-DT 36.1 (35) out of Milwaukee just downrezzed down to 720p. Looks like they're gonna throw subs on that one, too. The Milwaukee HDTV board is not happy about that one. The only pure PBS 1080i HD is now from South Bend, IN, on 34.1 (rf 35) with one sub...but it looks great. Both PBS stations are difficult to get because of WWTO-TV analog 35 in LaSalle, and especially WNIT-DT, which is only at 50 kw.

Proof of concept:

http://www.milwaukeehdtv.org/forums/showthread.php?t=6886

I await the barrage of anger from the Crystal Lake area posters. :D

moxie1617

03-10-07, 05:54 PM

.......................... But then, I didn't have HD equipment in the glorious old days of only 11-1 (at 1080i) and 11-2.

If you had been able to view WTTW 11-1 back then you would not have been using the term Very Good, quite satisfactory, etc. You would have been using adjectives like stunning, outstanding, 3D like, etc. Today, I find 11-1 okay, better than my SD DirecTv and the rest, well my old SD DirecTv is better at 480x480.

Rammitinski

03-10-07, 06:11 PM

WMVT-DT 36.1 (35) out of Milwaukee just downrezzed down to 720p. Looks like they're gonna throw subs on that one, too.Ayyyyyeeeeeeee!!!! :eek: :eek: :( :mad:

Rammitinski

03-10-07, 06:12 PM

That's actually 38-3, the Ion Life network. Haven't had a chance to look at it yet.When it first started, I thought it was actually pretty good - but now I can see that they are just running the same things over and over and over and over............. :rolleyes:

hvs10trk

03-10-07, 06:14 PM

That's actually 38-3, the Ion Life network. Haven't had a chance to look at it yet.

Well, king, I'm gonna crown ya...

WMVT-DT 36.1 (35) out of Milwaukee just downrezzed down to 720p. Looks like they're gonna throw subs on that one, too. The Milwaukee HDTV board is not happy about that one. The only pure PBS 1080i HD is now from South Bend, IN, on 34.1 (rf 35) with one sub...but it looks great. Both PBS stations are difficult to get because of WWTO-TV analog 35 in LaSalle, and especially WNIT-DT, which is only at 50 kw.

Proof of concept:

http://www.milwaukeehdtv.org/forums/showthread.php?t=6886

I await the barrage of anger from the Crystal Lake area posters. :D

In the words of the ESPN great Dan Patrick: "Good god, hide the women and children." :eek:

pretzelkid

03-11-07, 03:34 PM

WMVT-DT 36.1 (35) out of Milwaukee just downrezzed down to 720p. Looks like they're gonna throw subs on that one, too. :D

Do you know that for a fact or is that just conjecture? Milwaukee already has PBS channel 10 broadcasting 7 subs on it. It would be a shame if they started messin' with PBS 36 now.... :(

Carmine782

03-11-07, 09:13 PM

Anyone Else having Problems with FOX Chicago HD Station? Im trying to find out if its comcast or Fox Chicago Station itself?

Bink

03-11-07, 09:45 PM

Anyone Else having Problems with FOX Chicago HD Station? Im trying to find out if its comcast or Fox Chicago Station itself?

Could you be alot more specific as to what "problems" you're having?

Regards,

Randy

PRO710HD

03-11-07, 09:52 PM

I have problems with FOX and it's related to aspect ratio in HD. I've been receiving the OTA HD broadcast on my D* TIVO for the past 2 years and it's always been very good, as well as providing FULL screen HD meaning no black bars. I know that most of the channel 5 stuff did include black bars on the side, but not FOX. Now I recently watched the Nascar race from today and like I said it has always been FULL screen. Today had black bars.

What the heck? Did they change their equipment for did they forget to flip a switch or something? I'm confused. I hate black bars but I also hate watching the highly compressed D* regular FOX feed.

Anybody know what's happening here?

Carmine782

03-11-07, 09:54 PM

Could you be alot more specific as to what "problems" you're having?

Regards,

Randy

The Problems are that its not in HD, its just the SD Channel being broadcasted on the HD Station.

Carmine782

03-11-07, 09:57 PM

PRO710HD

03-11-07, 10:19 PM

That makes sense cause even the picture with black bars looked pretty ****** come to think of it. The stations HD equipment must be down.

Dangit FOX, get this fixed!!!

sebenste

03-12-07, 02:01 AM

That makes sense cause even the picture with black bars looked pretty ****** come to think of it. The stations HD equipment must be down.

Dangit FOX, get this fixed!!!
I don't know anybody at FOX anymore, or otherwise I would inquire. I can tell you that being out in DeKalb, I can get the low-powered-but-still-HD station in Rockford...and they had no problems with their HD feed when I saw it near the end of the race. I saw the black bars on WFLD, and thought "Uh oh...major malfunction!". The FOX splicer is completely automatic and controlled by the network, but it does that for ALL FOX affiliates, which means it was definitely a local problem.

Carmine782

03-12-07, 07:10 AM

I don't know anybody at FOX anymore, or otherwise I would inquire. I can tell you that being out in DeKalb, I can get the low-powered-but-still-HD station in Rockford...and they had no problems with their HD feed when I saw it near the end of the race. I saw the black bars on WFLD, and thought "Uh oh...major malfunction!". The FOX splicer is completely automatic and controlled by the network, but it does that for ALL FOX affiliates, which means it was definitely a local problem.

The Better get this fixed before 24 Starts Tonight!!!!

dicko2

03-12-07, 08:21 AM

WMVT-DT 36.1 (35) out of Milwaukee just downrezzed down to 720p. Looks like they're gonna throw subs on that one, too. The Milwaukee HDTV board is not happy about that one. The only pure PBS 1080i HD is now from South Bend, IN, on 34.1 (rf 35) with one sub...but it looks great. Both PBS stations are difficult to get because of WWTO-TV analog 35 in LaSalle, and especially WNIT-DT, which is only at 50 kw.

Proof of concept:

http://www.milwaukeehdtv.org/forums/showthread.php?t=6886

I await the barrage of anger from the Crystal Lake area posters. :D

NOOOOOOO! Say it aint so! <sob>

Any one buying an HD TV today will never know what HD is truly like. Only those early adaptors who bought tvs years ago will remember the crystal clear, razor sharp pictures, of those early demo tapes shown on PBS.

The beancounters have won.... I surrender... <sniff>

dickm
(already missing his favorite station.)

sebenste

03-12-07, 10:25 AM

Do you know that for a fact or is that just conjecture? Milwaukee already has PBS channel 10 broadcasting 7 subs on it. It would be a shame if they started messin' with PBS 36 now.... :(

Well, there's no other reason why they would. PBS HD is 1080i. And, PBS just launched "V-Me", and I betcha they don't want to add another sub to WMVS...it would make all their 10-X channels look really soft. I'm taking a guess here, but I bet we see V-Me on 35-2. Funny thing is, with variable rate encoding, they could put that on 35-2 with no major problem and keep 35-1 at 1080i. Adding an eighth sub would more than likely push the picture quality "over the edge" and make all their 10-X channels look bad.

You know, this wouldn't be horrible if they had 11-1 on Comcast/WOW/RCN uncompressed via a fiber link. OETA in Oklahoma does this in Oklahoma City with their PBS HD feed. WOW does fiber for all analog and digital reception; I wonder if they and the others could get the raw feed from the control room before passing it along to the encoder...

pretzelkid

03-12-07, 12:51 PM

You know, this wouldn't be horrible if they had 11-1 on Comcast/WOW/RCN uncompressed via a fiber link.

PBS 36 is on our Charter cable in clear QAM but it's also grouped with WMLW(SD), WDJT(HD) and WISN(HD)...talk about compressed.... :rolleyes:

cheer

03-12-07, 02:14 PM

I'd like to check out specific shows on 11-1 which some of you have complaints about. I suspect most of the issues are source related. But then, I didn't have HD equipment in the glorious old days of only 11-1 (at 1080i) and 11-2.
When I got my first digital TV, I didn't have any HD programming at all (was buying with the thought of future use). As I climbed into the attic as part of my re-wiring project for the satellite, I discovered a large VHF/UHF combo antenna there, suspended by a few bits of string. I added an extra RG6 feed to the clump of cables I was feeding down to the basement, then connected one of them to the antenna at one end and fed the other end up to the family room behind the TV. I figured that if I could get free HD programming, then great; if not, I was only out a few bucks for the additional cabling.

By the time I finished fishing all my wires and getting everything hooked up, it was after 10 pm. I did a quick scan and locked all sorts of stuff, but nothing was in HD...until I hit 11-1.

11-1 was stunning. I sat in front of the TV, staring (and, if my wife is to be believed, drooling a bit). I don't remember what it was, but it was positively gorgeous.

The difference between then and now is immediately obvious to my eyes.

Carmine782

03-12-07, 06:03 PM

Is Anyone getting Audio Dropouts on Chicago HD Stations? I have Comcast, but im trying to find out if this is comcast or the Chicago Stations Themselves??

bclbob

03-12-07, 07:45 PM

sebenste: in Oak Park, is there any hope of being able to receive WDJT or WIFR Thursday night? any signal will do (HD, Digital or analog). I don't know frequencies or strengths but they will have my beloved Spartans as their March Madness game (WBBM will too but I could be a victim of a live cutaway from the game) where the other 2 stations are locked for MSU-Marquette

Rammitinski

03-12-07, 08:07 PM

Carmine782

03-12-07, 08:42 PM

Is Anyone getting Audio Dropouts on Chicago HD Stations? I have Comcast, but im trying to find out if this is comcast or the Chicago Stations Themselves??

Anyone??

sebenste

03-12-07, 08:44 PM

WDJT - probably not. Maybe if you were in a more northern suburb.

But WIFR?....No way. Even people MUCH, much further out have trouble getting them because of the interference from analog channel 41 (WOCH-LP). Plus, they're way too low-powered anyway.

Ramm's right. Unless I point my antenna at WIFR-DT, I can't get it reliably. And WIFR analog gets interfered with by WWME in Chicago, even here in DeKalb.

WDJT...too far away. If you are within 30 miles of the Loop (air miles), you can't reliably get any other market (unless you are way up on a high-rise, perhaps, over 20 stories).

Sorry. :(

Wireman134

03-12-07, 10:41 PM

Chicago OTA all locals solid 38 miles from transmiters...

sebenste

03-13-07, 01:16 AM

Rammitinski

03-13-07, 02:02 AM

Comin' in like gangbusters here!

cheer

03-13-07, 09:00 AM

Is Anyone getting Audio Dropouts on Chicago HD Stations? I have Comcast, but im trying to find out if this is comcast or the Chicago Stations Themselves??
If you're getting them on ALL stations, it's more likely your equipment than anything else. But in any case...I occasionally get a dropout on WFLD-DT or WLS-DT, but other than that, no.

WillieAntenna

03-13-07, 09:27 AM

My signal meter on 39-1 is nearly pegged with my ChannelMaster 4228 pointing towards Chicago. Sometime tonight, Rockford's FOX affiliate, WQRF-DT (42, resolves to 39-1) apparently went full power at 900 kw. Theoretically, much of Kane and McHenry counties should get this. Those of you in DuPage and Lake counties, try to DX this station! Actually, western Lake county has a shot, since the directional antenna is beamed most directly due east.

Gilbert, I am in Walworth, WI just north of Harvard, IL . I also have CM 4228 w/CM 7777 indoor 2nd floor 15 ft off from the ground with clear view to the south and I did have it pointed towards Chicago and also pointed to Madison and it locked WQRF good. That good now I have 2 Fox channel to choose from.

-Willie

WillieAntenna

03-13-07, 10:15 AM

hvs10trk

03-13-07, 01:14 PM

Comin' in like gangbusters here!
I concur!!! :D

heisman

03-13-07, 07:02 PM

Gilbert,

Do you know anybody over at WLS. I notice last night and still at this time, the channel/ guide the clock time is correct, but the programing is an hour behind. WLS is showing the news at 10 am when it should been 11 am today. The same thing happeing with Fox 32.

Thanks in advance.

-Willie

Same thing here with all the channels. TVGOS has the right time in the guide, but when you tune to the channel, the channel banner has the wrong time with no program listed.

R Johnson

03-13-07, 08:54 PM

Time issue: I saw something like this with my Samsung H260F tuner. Time was one hour off until I changed the Samsung to Daylight Savings ON.

timdgibson

03-14-07, 11:17 AM

Not anywhere near as bad as my SD E* channels, of course - NOTHING is THAT bad

Actually yes there is: Ramapo Cable in Schaumburg. We found the only apartment complex in NW burbs that does not have Comcast. Instead we get a 3rd party Directv thing. Imagine a hotel TV environment severely compressed after being sent through 2 or 3 satellites and then having to be split dozens of times to separate buildings. :mad:

Do you remember that giddy feeling you got when you first saw HD? I get that giddy right now when I pop in a DVD and see 480p.

My only consolation is my indoor antenna does get WLS-HD and WMAQ-HD. If I move it from its present position, I can get WGN-HD and WFLD-HD.

tim

R Johnson

03-14-07, 11:48 AM

Tonight (3/14) WTTWD 11-1 is scheduled to show "The Magic Flute" from the Metropolitan Opera. It's a very visually interesting show with the production by Julie Taymor (of Lion King fame). Lots of good music too! If you happen to check it out, I'd be interested to hear what you thought about the quality of the show.

andyross63

03-14-07, 05:27 PM

Is WTTW (or any channel in the Chicago area) still sending a time signal for use by VCR's and similar? I get my signals through Comcast, and had to set my VCR manually after the DST change (it's mainly just for backup and as a clock.) I set it to scan, and it eventually set itself to some bizarre time. When I tried the same thing at my parents house, that VCR set itself to channel 75, which is the Travel channel, and the time was also way off.

FSugino

03-14-07, 06:26 PM

Is WTTW (or any channel in the Chicago area) still sending a time signal for use by VCR's and similar?
I believe their analog 11 still sends time signals. I used to pick it up on Comcast off channel 94, but I disconnected my antenna a while ago and haven't checked since the new year started.

Lurker501

03-14-07, 08:18 PM

I'm trying to find someone in the Bartlett/Elgin area to install an antenna. I will most likely have to purchase it from them also. I'm looking at the Winegard 7084.

Can anyone recommend someone in my area that will do a proper installation (grounding, wiring, etc.) of said antenna? We do get very high winds out here.

I will appreciate any guidance.

Thanks!

hvs10trk

03-15-07, 09:45 AM

I believe their analog 11 still sends time signals. I used to pick it up on Comcast off channel 94, but I disconnected my antenna a while ago and haven't checked since the new year started.
We've toyed with that idea on 26 as a techy thing. :D

meany

03-15-07, 01:04 PM

swalve

03-15-07, 06:45 PM

Could it be a daylight savings time issue? Since it started three weeks early this year, maybe something is broken?

R Johnson

03-15-07, 07:13 PM

I thought "The Magic Flute" looked and sounded great on 11-1 last night. I thought it was better on my home system than when shown live at the movie theaters. (I saw it on 12/30/06 at the Cinemark in Woodridge.)

larceny

03-17-07, 12:12 AM

sebenste

03-17-07, 12:57 AM

Is it just a fantasy that I might be able to receive CBS (WBBM) HD with an indoor antenna? I have the TERK HDTVi which picks up everything but 2-1. I thought I would be close enough to the tower living in zip code 60302. Any ideas would be very much appreciated.

Hi Larceny,

Welcome to the board!

The Terk HDTVi has the potential to do it. But, you will have to move the antenna around to see if you can get it. It's not a good VHF antenna, especially for channels 2-6. How does the analog come in, can you try WBBM channel 2 analog to see what kind of signal quality you are getting from that? If it has interference, you might even have anotherwise decent picture, but the interference will kill reception. If it's snowy, you'd need an amplifier to boost the signal some.

larceny

03-17-07, 01:43 AM

Thank you very much for your welcome and quick reply!

The Terk HDTVi has the potential to do it. But, you will have to move the antenna around to see if you can get it.I have put it everywhere and get nothing but a black screen 100% of the time (for CBS). The signal strength for WBBM CBS HD tops out at 41 no matter what I do. The signal strength for all other HD stations is between 95-100. Any use in trying a different HDTV antenna?

How does the analog come in, can you try WBBM channel 2 analog to see what kind of signal quality you are getting from that? If it has interference, you might even have anotherwise decent picture, but the interference will kill reception. If it's snowy, you'd need an amplifier to boost the signal some.I would classify the CBS analog signal quality as 'good'. But this goes for all channels, as I do not see much of a difference in signal across all other analog channels. I would definitely not classify it as snowy, it just appears that it needs some fine tuning.

sebenste

03-17-07, 02:12 AM

Thank you very much for your welcome and quick reply!

I have put it everywhere and get nothing but a black screen 100% of the time (for CBS). The signal strength for WBBM CBS HD tops out at 41 no matter what I do. The signal strength for all other HD stations is between 95-100. Any use in trying a different HDTV antenna?

I would classify the CBS analog signal quality as 'good'. But this goes for all channels, as I do not see much of a difference in signal across all other analog channels. I would definitely not classify it as snowy, it just appears that it needs some fine tuning.

Hi Larceny,

That antenna's VHF antenna rods aren't long enough to really capture WBBM.
Believe it or not, for you, a $10 unamplified "rabbit ears" with a circular "loop" UHF antenna would be a better choice! Your UHF station signal strength numbers may shrink some, but you should still be OK...and you'd have a realistic shot of getting WBBM.

As a matter of fact, I am going to update my WBBM rant to include that...if you are within 20 miles, that may work well for people with an unobstructed view to Hancock.

KeithAR2002

03-17-07, 02:26 AM

larceny

03-17-07, 10:48 AM

Believe it or not, for you, a $10 unamplified "rabbit ears" with a circular "loop" UHF antenna would be a better choice! Your UHF station signal strength numbers may shrink some, but you should still be OK...and you'd have a realistic shot of getting WBBM.Well, I gave it a shot. I have now tried four different models and ALL max out with a 41 signal strength for WBBM CBS Chicago. I guess I'll just have to live without CBS HD until UHF comes to reality. Thank you for your ideas.

Rammitinski

03-17-07, 04:56 PM

I guess I'll just have to live without CBS HD until UHF comes to reality.Not sure exactly what you mean by that, but if you're referring to where WBBM-DTs digital assignment will finally end up when all is said and done, it's set to be on hi-VHF channel 11. But hi-VHF should still be easier to receive than lo-VHF.

WillieAntenna

03-17-07, 05:16 PM

Not sure exactly what you mean by that, but if you're referring to where WBBM-DTs digital assignment will finally end up when all is said and done, it's set to be on hi-VHF channel 11. But hi-VHF should still be easier to receive than lo-VHF.

Ramm's I hope you are wrong :p :D But I am hopeing that in the very last special FCC round that WBBM will be allowed to pick again. Because WMSN-47 Madison is now on DT-11 and few other station to southeast of Chicago and along with WBBM going to DT in 2009 will cause problems, as it is trouble for me which I already with WMTV-15 out of Madison and WGN-9 Chicago which both transimit on 19-DT and WGN canel out WMTV and I am closer to WMTV-15 I do have better LOS to WGN.

It would be nice to get rid of VHF TV station and big wide 110" antenna and just go with a good UHF antenna. Rockford WQRF-39 DT is sure nice now with boosted power and with that I have 2 choice of Fox channel as I only have C/M 4228 antenna right now.

-Willie

Rammitinski

03-17-07, 05:22 PM

sebenste

03-17-07, 05:25 PM

sebenste,

I was checking out the Longley-Rice maps you had for the Chicago area stations, and I was wondering where the guy you got them from, got them? Does that makes sense? lol. I find those maps with the color indicating Grade A, B signal coverage are pretty accurate, much accurate than the FCC maps on fcc.gov. Where would I find these maps for other stations in the country? Or would I have to pay an outragous amount to access them? I noticed the Splat! program, but I don't have Linux. Any info would be appreciated.

Also, I really like the way you have the new Chicago thread organized.... I wonder if the moderators would allow me to add an index to the first page of the Shreveport board? I really think every local thread should have an index similar to the one you've created.

I got them from a Chicago engineer willing to do it. You'd have to talk to a local engineer in your market to see if he would do the same thing. No Linux, no Splat!, unfortunately. :(

As for the organization, it is the goal of AVSForum to do what has been done to this thread. Send a private message (PM) to Cpanther95, and he can tell you what you or someone else needs to do. If you're interested, volunteer! It doesn't take much time to do, as long as you don't have a VHF signal on channels 2-6. :D

sebenste

03-17-07, 05:32 PM

Well, I gave it a shot. I have now tried four different models and ALL max out with a 41 signal strength for WBBM CBS Chicago. I guess I'll just have to live without CBS HD until UHF comes to reality. Thank you for your ideas.
Hi Larceny,

Well, as it is, WBBM-DT is slated to go to channel 11 in 2009, so you're out of luck.
Now, given that you have a low signal strength, a preamplifier may help you, but then it would possibly overload the other channels. Try a Winegard AP-2870, such as this:

http://www.warrenelectronics.com/antennas/ap2870.htm

Ask to make sure you can return it if it doesn't work out. Get that 41 level signal, and then try that. This amp also has some overload protection, so see what happens. Also, do you have an attic you can put a larger antenna in?

WillieAntenna

03-17-07, 05:48 PM

Yeah, WQRF-DT is now as equally receivable as WTVO-DT is for me. I can get both regularly without even having to point my antenna directly at them. It was pretty cool last night when I was pointed at Milwaukee and receiving a bunch of their channels (36-1 too, which is still unsullied!), and at the same time receiving the aforementioned ones (and 17-2) from Rockford, and STILL receiving ALL of the Chicago channels!! Even WJYS-DT!

And this was nothing unusual for me on a typical night :D. (At least until it warms up - I don't receive the Milwaukee ones then as well with the antenna I've currently got up - plus, there are trees in that direction.)

I know in the past you have tried different antennas. What antenna do use now or set up. ?

I got my 4228 w/CM 7777 indoor facing the south in the clear off the second floor apartment, I can get Chicago, Madison and Rockford but not Milwaukee unless I drag it to the bedroom by the east window. Next month I will be moving and I will have a clear to the west but no windows to north, east or south so I think I will loose the Chicago I might gain Milwaukee not sure yet, but now that WQRF is at full power I should still get it. I do have a attic access I might sneak the antenna up there and use my homemade DB-2 antenna on the bacloney to the west.

-Willie

Rammitinski

03-17-07, 06:05 PM

jmdomini

03-17-07, 09:28 PM

Well, I was hoping to be able to report that WQRF-DT was making it's way to the Aurora area. After all I've been able to pick up the analog version even with the little DB2 that I had.

This means reaiming my PR4400 towards Rockford. Sadly I carelessly bent the reflector element in the process. I tried to straighten it out, but I just can make it right again. :(

Sorry to say I don't think I'm going to replace it. Comcast was out today and I think I'm done with messing with OTA. It's been fun, but it's just too hard when you don't have room for a properly mounted antenna.

sebenste

03-17-07, 09:38 PM

jmdomini

03-17-07, 10:04 PM

I did try it before I gave up. Looks reasonably straight, but trying it with pulling in a weak station it seems to have lost some gain. For now it's hanging on a hook in the garage. I still have the Stealthtenna hanging in the same closet that I was using for FM hooked up. Actually works reasonably well, I was able to pick up everything out of Chicago with it. Probably wouldnt be stable in bad weather, but it's good enough as a backup antenna.

KeithAR2002

03-18-07, 03:50 AM

I got them from a Chicago engineer willing to do it. You'd have to talk to a local engineer in your market to see if he would do the same thing. No Linux, no Splat!, unfortunately. :(

As for the organization, it is the goal of AVSForum to do what has been done to this thread. Send a private message (PM) to Cpanther95, and he can tell you what you or someone else needs to do. If you're interested, volunteer! It doesn't take much time to do, as long as you don't have a VHF signal on channels 2-6. :D

Thanks for the info! I'm going to PM him tomorrow. While the Shreveport/Monroe thread doesn't get NEARLY as many visitors as the Chicago thread, I still think it's a good idea to keep it organized. I feel I'm very knowledgable, but I would have never acquired my knowledge if it had not have been for AVS.. Heck, I didn't have a clue as to what digital/HD was a year ago at this time! Thanks again for the info!

hvs10trk

03-18-07, 07:48 AM

Anybody watching the NCAA tourney yesterday evening notice CBS's analog aspect ratio off "just a bit"???? Couldn't see the shot clock or read the first team name on the left. Almost like they took the center piece of an HD picture for their feed.

WillieAntenna

03-18-07, 11:34 PM

Rooftop:
Radio Shack U-75R (got it really cheap) w/CM7777 pre-amp, and

Indoors:
Radio Shack 15-1880 (both going into RS remote controlled A/B switch). I've also got a Silver Sensor that gets UHF equally as well, but I use the RS's VHF rabbit-ears to get 11 analog, for my TVGOS.

I usually keep the indoor one pointed at Chicago, since those are the strongest and easiest to get, and the outside one I point whichever way the reception is best. Year-round, I get CBS most reliably from WIFR-DT, so it's most often pointed towards Rockford. But on good nights I'll occasionally point it toward Milwaukee.

I plan on getting a good, full-range outdoor one up when the weather gets good, but this setup has been more than adequate for this winter.

Thanks for getting back. Wow getting Milwaukee with that U-75R you about 65 miles from the Milwaukee antenna farm on north farside in Shorewood that good. Have you been pokeing your head in BB or CC this weekend someone said there is some new units out this weekend DVD with ATSC tuners don't know which brands, but I see CC in your town has the Sammy 260 in stock now.

-Willie

WillieAntenna

03-19-07, 11:40 AM

Hi Gilbert,

Have you seen or heard what the projected coverage for the WBBM 2-DT on Channel 11 is going to be ? And what about WLS-7 what the projected coverage too when they go back to 7.

-Willie

Rammitinski

03-19-07, 02:51 PM

Thanks for getting back. Wow getting Milwaukee with that U-75R you about 65 miles from the Milwaukee antenna farm on north farside in Shorewood that good. Have you been pokeing your head in BB or CC this weekend someone said there is some new units out this weekend DVD with ATSC tuners don't know which brands, but I see CC in your town has the Sammy 260 in stock now.

-WillieI think I'm probably only getting Milwaukee good because the leaves are off the trees across the way and it was winter (cold). They must be very high-powered. I think I was only able to get a couple of channels late last fall, when I first got the antenna up. But fortunately, the one I got most regularly then was 36-1. I really didn't get that one so much when it was colder, but now that it's warming up, I'm getting it again (don't know why that is). Even still, it's usually only at night (same as the others all winter). Actually, that PBS-HD channel is the one I'd want most anyway - all the others are just clones of the Chicago stations and mainly show the same old crap, only at different times. Other than that, the only other station I care to get is 58-1 (CBS) - mainly just for another option, in case for some reason I'm not receiving WIFR-DT well (since I don't get WBBM-DT). I get the South Bend CBS on occasion (WSBT-HD?), but that's just purely through tropo.

I saw the two digital tunered units at BB the other night. They're LG's. One is a VCR/DVD recorder and the other is just a DVD one. No hard drives though. I don't think there will be any of those coming out in the near future. At least not from what I've been reading in the DVD Recorder forum.

Maybe when they have a sizable HDD, and an upgraded TVGOS that works with digital (or something similar), I'll think about getting one. Oh - and one that's guide recording is fully compatible with satellite. The LG's had listed on the box and unit sticker that the IR blaster will control satellite tuners, but I'm already setting timers manually with my SD Sony DVR and E* tuner, so it wouldn't be an upgrade for me (my Sony will control it through it's IR blaster, but I don't use it).

sebenste

03-19-07, 03:23 PM

Hi Gilbert,

Have you seen or heard what the projected coverage for the WBBM 2-DT on Channel 11 is going to be ? And what about WLS-7 what the projected coverage too when they go back to 7.

-Willie

I've seen WBBM-DT 11: draw a perfect circle centered on Sears tower, with a 30 mile radius, and you have it. I've wondered about that but engineers in defense of WBBM have publically stated here that even at that power, they should get out that far. As for WLS, I don't know for sure, but I'm guessing it goes out 10 miles more.

Kal Hassan (WLS VP of engineering) stated on the old board that he's not very concerned about it. Given the signal history of WLS, and all my contacts say he's a really smart guy, I'd be silly not to take his word.

Rammitinski

03-19-07, 04:22 PM

I guess there are a lot of people living out in the middle of Lake Michigan that they want to make sure they can get the signal to :rolleyes:.

WillieAntenna

03-19-07, 06:08 PM

I think I'm probably only getting Milwaukee good because the leaves are off the trees across the way and it was winter (cold). They must be very high-powered. I think I was only able to get a couple of channels late last fall, when I first got the antenna up. But fortunately, the one I got most regularly then was 36-1. I really didn't get that one so much when it was colder, but now that it's warming up, I'm getting it again (don't know why that is). Even still, it's usually only at night (same as the others all winter). Actually, that PBS-HD channel is the one I'd want most anyway - all the others are just clones of the Chicago stations and mainly show the same old crap, only at different times. Other than that, the only other station I care to get is 58-1 (CBS) - mainly just for another option, in case for some reason I'm not receiving WIFR-DT well (since I don't get WBBM-DT). I get the South Bend CBS on occasion (WSBT-HD?), but that's just purely through tropo.

I saw the two digital tunered units at BB the other night. They're LG's. One is a VCR/DVD recorder and the other is just a DVD one. No hard drives though. I don't think there will be any of those coming out in the near future. At least not from what I've been reading in the DVD Recorder forum.

Maybe when they have a sizable HDD, and an upgraded TVGOS that works with digital (or something similar), I'll think about getting one. Oh - and one that's guide recording is fully compatible with satellite. The LG's had listed on the box and unit sticker that the IR blaster will control satellite tuners, but I'm already setting timers manually with my SD Sony DVR and E* tuner, so it wouldn't be an upgrade for me (my Sony will control it through it's IR blaster, but I don't use it).

That still pretty good for U-75 Antenna to reach to Milwaukee WDJT-58 they are up by Shorewood, WI. Channel 55 analog is by Kenosha and the digital is by Shorewood and there one in Racine also analog there but digital by Shorewood also.

I just look up BB site this AM and I see 2 new units 1 by Samsung DVD-V9700 VCR/DVD it nice unit it just listed as coming soon. The other is Philips DVD Recorder DVDR3505 but it does have ASTC tuner but it is ONLY SDTV TUNER NOT HDTV tuner and has pass through rf in the back. That also listed as coming soon. I did not look all the way though but will check the LG unit later. I got the spec on both from the Manufactor site.

-Willie

WillieAntenna

03-19-07, 06:22 PM

I've seen WBBM-DT 11: draw a perfect circle centered on Sears tower, with a 30 mile radius, and you have it. I've wondered about that but engineers in defense of WBBM have publically stated here that even at that power, they should get out that far. As for WLS, I don't know for sure, but I'm guessing it goes out 10 miles more.

Kal Hassan (WLS VP of engineering) stated on the old board that he's not very concerned about it. Given the signal history of WLS, and all my contacts say he's a really smart guy, I'd be silly not to take his word.

So I take it they didn't qualify for the 4th round to move to another channel.

" As for WLS, I don't know for sure, but I'm guessing it goes out 10 miles more. "

As what Analog 7 does now or as DT52 does now ? I know you said as a guess, I can pick up analog 7 good now w/ CM 4228.

Gilbert, you did nice job of redoing the Chicago thread. I bet you that you are working on a new thread for 2-18-09 already :D

I don't know who to talk to about but maybe you do. How about adding somewhere on this website a countdown clock to analog shutdown.

-Willie

longwong

03-19-07, 08:00 PM

My main worry is this -

For those of us who can consistently lock WBBM-DT on channel 3 now, do you think we're going to have any trouble when it moves to channel 11 at the lower power? Or will the characteristics of the new frequency compensate for the lower power altogether?

WillieAntenna

03-20-07, 02:54 PM

Has anyone seen the mega huge AirBus A-380 landed at O'Hare airport live on WGN or WFLD noon news it landed about 12:30 PM. It was awsome. WLS did not cut in live, but I hope they had a crew there with the HD cams that would be nice view so maybe at 5,6 & 10 news WLS will show it. It takes 4 piolts, 4 crews member and 23 cabins crew members to run the plane with 483 passengers. 240 feet long and the wingspans just under a football field length.

Ramms, how would you like that be flying over your house on a daily basic :D . They flew over Waukgean toward the landing today. Alot of fights starts the approach to O'hare above where I live, sometime they fly so low that I could read the tail number and I think they were going to land at Harvard airport. :eek:

-Willie

jcr74

03-20-07, 04:08 PM

have myhd setup to capture both the 5 and 6 news on wls, gotta have something about it between those two. their website has a short story, pictures taken from a helicopter and about 15 minutes of approach/landing footage, so they were there. the chopper can do hd so that would be cool, but land based cameras would be a little more steady i guess.

hvs10trk

03-20-07, 04:13 PM

WillieAntenna

03-20-07, 04:36 PM

Thanks jcr74 & hvs10trk

I will head over and check the website out. I bet Hillary is ordering one and have it ready for when she takes over the White House :rolleyes: :D, She can have one deck and Billy the " First Man" will have the other deck :D .

I also heard if they max out the seating plan, it can hold 750 people :eek: .

-Willie

sebenste

03-20-07, 07:36 PM

Three low power stations in Chicago, along with a new applicant, were vying for channel 49 as a DTV low power station:

WCHU-LP (Off the air, was on channel 55 as infomercials/independent station being simulcast from Los Angeles)
A new application
WBKM-LP (home shopping on channel 46)
WOCH-LP (Korean broadcasts on channel 41)

The FCC today awarded WCHU-LD to channel 49. Additionally...the FCC awarded a construction permit for WLFM-LP to go to channel 6 as analog. So, when WCHU-LD signs on, they should be channel 55-1. I have no clue when analog 6 will sign on, but it should be quick. So, the other three will have to re-apply for new channels.

I updated my master station list:

http://weather.niu.edu/dtvstations.xls

AND I updated page 2 to reflect the changes. So Ramm will have to wait longer for his favorite LPDTV station to sign on. ;) :D

Now...start taking bets on where the others will wind up and apply for. PURE SPECULATION FOLLOWS: Channels 4, 8, 16, 25...but that's about it, folks! The other low-powers and full powers have taken the rest...

Rammitinski

03-20-07, 08:10 PM

So Ramm will have to wait longer for his favorite LPDTV station to sign onThey'll probably be at such low power I won't be able to get them anyway :(.

Any idea where they transmit from?

sebenste

03-20-07, 08:32 PM

They'll probably be at such low power I won't be able to get them anyway :(.

Any idea where they transmit from?

Hancock.

timdgibson

03-20-07, 08:55 PM

I updated my master station list:

http://weather.niu.edu/dtvstations.xls

Thanks Gilbert for the updates. As tech director at a church in Crystal Lake, I keep an updated spreadsheet of all the area frequencies that could affect our wireless mics. It's very crowded and come 2/09 things are going to be very crazy. Fortunately, Shure, Sennheiser, and Lectrosonics are starting to meet with Congress.

For those of you who are confused, part of the 2/09 plan will open up the vacated analog frequencies for use by manufacturers of other wireless devices (at a steep price of course). The problem with this is that this is where all of the wireless mics reside. So all of the churches, theaters, TV shows, movies, sporting events, etc will be affected. It looks like progress is being made, but it's hard when you're lobbying against Microsoft, Intel, Verizon, etc.

tim

sebenste

03-20-07, 09:38 PM

Between 7:50 PM and 8:10 PM-ish, American Idol had some very serious problems that also happened on analog to a point. I don't know what went wrong, but at one time, the test "FOX" logo started flashing on the screen on the HD side of things. My boss, who just got an HD and has Comcast, called me in a huff to let me know. :D

WFLD-DT has had some significant problems with its HD lately, with the NASCAR race last week in standard def. Hope they fixed the problem for good this time.
(No other reports from other markets, so I am guessing it was Chicago only).

hvs10trk

03-20-07, 09:44 PM

Between 7:50 PM and 8:10 PM-ish, American Idol had some very serious problems that also happened on analog to a point. I don't know what happened, but at one point, the test flashing "FOX" logo started flashing on the screen on the HD side of things. My boss, who just got an HD and has Comcast, called me in a huff to let me know. :D

WFLD-DT has had some significant problems with its HD lately, with the NASCAR race last week in standard def. Hope they fixed the problem for good this time.
(No other reports from other markets, so I am guessing it was Chicago only).
Yeah I caught that too on HD.

(l)user

03-20-07, 10:27 PM

After more than a year of trials I managed to get a good steady feed from channel 2.1 utilizing a small $52 Terk TV5 amplified antenna.
I am located in Norridge, 3rd floor.

FunkyBoss

03-21-07, 11:23 AM

sebenste

03-21-07, 12:54 PM

The FCC today officially approved a bunch of low-power digital channels, giving the stations construction permits.

Weigel Broadcastings' 3 stations in South Bend, two in Milwaukee, and one in Rockford all got the nod in this batch. In the Chicago area, the following were approved:

WWME-LD 39 (23.1)- MeTV
WOCK-LD 12 (13.1)- Azteca America
W22DG-LD, Aurora 22 (22.1)-Translator to WSPY-LD 18 (30.1), Plano (America One)

Not on the list was the new one on channel 33, and WFBT-LD on channel 46, still in application status.

I updated the links on the second post. I have no idea when these will sign on.
Given that they are digital companion channels, it should be anytime between today and February, 2009. :D

I heard from WSPY last fall that they want to go digital "as soon as possible"; with both their applications approved for construction permits, we'll see how long it takes now. They can possibly diplex off the same antenna for their soon-to-be digital channel 18, so it shouldn't be too hard.

hvs10trk

03-21-07, 03:57 PM

natebomb503

03-21-07, 08:18 PM

Has anyone else been having problems with the sound on NBC (5-1) today?

(l)user

03-21-07, 10:33 PM

After more than a year of trials I managed to get a good steady feed from channel 2.1 utilizing a small $52 Terk TV5 amplified antenna.
I am located in Norridge, 3rd floor.

No comments? I spent a year trying different (indoor) antennas and finally gave up. Then bought a new TV and then a new antenna just for that (50in plasma) and... eureka! Here it is: CBS in all its glory....

Can anyone try this small indoor antenna (Terk TV-5) and let me know if I just got lucky or is this thing is really good at pulling VHF?

Rammitinski

03-22-07, 01:43 AM

Has anyone else been having problems with the sound on NBC (5-1) today?Yeah. I put on Conan O'Brien just a little while ago and there was no sound.

I hadn't watched 5-1 at all today before that, though.

moxie1617

03-22-07, 10:21 AM

Has anyone else been having problems with the sound on NBC (5-1) today?
Tried to watch (OTA) the evening news at 5:30, no audio on 5.1 but 5.2 was fine. Came back about 7 PM and still no audio on 5.1 but again 5.2 had audio.

NBC isn't ready for primetime with their HD broadcasts. :(

sebenste

03-22-07, 10:35 AM

sebenste

03-22-07, 10:39 AM

Thanks Gilbert for the updates. As tech director at a church in Crystal Lake, I keep an updated spreadsheet of all the area frequencies that could affect our wireless mics. It's very crowded and come 2/09 things are going to be very crazy. Fortunately, Shure, Sennheiser, and Lectrosonics are starting to meet with Congress.

For those of you who are confused, part of the 2/09 plan will open up the vacated analog frequencies for use by manufacturers of other wireless devices (at a steep price of course). The problem with this is that this is where all of the wireless mics reside. So all of the churches, theaters, TV shows, movies, sporting events, etc will be affected. It looks like progress is being made, but it's hard when you're lobbying against Microsoft, Intel, Verizon, etc.

tim

You are welcome and yep, and I see the "white space" that a few politicians have proposed to ram through Congress. I wouldn't use channel 55, that's for sure. But they are already "on the air" in Chicago on that channel, so you probably know that. I am still waiting to hear when WYIN-TV 56 signs off; watching the
FCC Daily Digest for that one.

(l)user

03-22-07, 02:07 PM

Hi (l)user,

You got lucky. :D Usually, terks have trouble even picking up local UHF DTV stations, so on this one, chalk it up to being at the right place at the right time.

However, we will ask you to mount a 300' microwave tower next to your house so you can beam the signal to the rest of us! :D

No problem, I'll start digging tonight... I do suggest however trying that TV-5 Terk antenna, preferably from Best Buy or any other place that takes returns...
It has a kind of unusuall shape which I suspect plays some role in VHF reception...

R Johnson

03-22-07, 02:40 PM

For those of you unhappy with 11-1, check out this article...

THE RUN-UP TO DIGITAL TV
There's a lot more than picture quality at stake
We've got to clean up our act in high-definition

http://www.current.org/dtv/dtv0704felland.shtml

Originally published in Current, March 12, 2007
Commentary by David Felland

Few viewers of the PBS high-definition channel realize that it doesn't exclusively air HD programming--or that most of it, in fact, is standard-definition video that's been upconverted to HD.

moxie1617

03-22-07, 02:56 PM

The article refers to TitanTv.com but I have found Zap2it.com, based on recommendations from fellow AVS'ers here, has more reliable listing for both HD sources and program times.

R Johnson

03-22-07, 03:43 PM

Here's another interesting article on the trade-offs that PBS stations are experimenting with...

THE RUN-UP TO DIGITAL TV

DTV channel options: How much to mux?

http://www.current.org/dtv/dtv0702bitstream-liroff.shtml

When public TV first learned it could air four program streams on a single DTV channel, that may have seemed too much airtime to fill. Now the system faces an abundance of high-def and other options, leaving stations to bet on those with the best chance to last and prosper. Liroff, who was v.p. and chief technology officer of Boston's WGBH when he wrote this, examines the options and trade-offs.

Rammitinski

03-22-07, 03:44 PM

No problem, I'll start digging tonight... I do suggest however trying that TV-5 Terk antenna, preferably from Best Buy or any other place that takes returns...
It has a kind of unusuall shape which I suspect plays some role in VHF reception...I've read a few good reviews of that antenna, so I can't say I'm as suprised as some - but I am a bit surprised that it would pick up WBBM-DT so well. It's not even that wide, from what I've seen. I guess if you're close enough it'll work.

R Johnson

03-22-07, 04:00 PM

And here's yet another PBS related article....
Note that one station manager proposes to DROP PBS-HD in order to carry V-me!

THE RUN-UP TO DIGITAL TV

Multicast channels crowd bitstream

V-me, in Spanish, joins options for stations' DTV broadcasts

http://www.current.org/dtv/dtv0702choices.shtml

The demand for programming to fill public TV stations' new DTV multicast channels has suddenly produced an abundant supply of choices.

...

"Something has to go" so APT can air V-me or World, Pizzato told Current. He plans to make room for one of them by dropping PBS-HD at the end of the fiscal year and replacing it with an up-converted version of the standard-definition PBS feed, providing the National Program Service's much broader content but without a true high-def picture. "That will allow me to not broadcast the SD-version of my analog signal and save a little bit of bandwidth," Pizzato said. For true high-def programs, which are only a portion of the HD feed, APT would switch to HD, he said.

...

moxie1617

03-22-07, 04:06 PM

The fool probably doesn't even watch PBS. :eek:

(l)user

03-22-07, 04:09 PM

I've read a few good reviews of that antenna, so I can't say I'm as suprised as some - but I am a bit surprised that it would pick up WBBM-DT so well. It's not even that wide, from what I've seen. I guess if you're close enough it'll work.

You should have seen my face when my tuner picked WBBM on 2.1. I did not expect this small antenna to manage where other, larger antennas failed.

I am pretty close and have a clear view to the Hancock my antenna however is positioned in a room that is not facing Hancock at all... The antenna is relatively small, nowhere near the dipole lenght required for channel 2. But it works and 2.1 is nice and steady, not worse than 7.1 or 9.1...
I could finally watch Letterman last night!

andyross63

03-22-07, 05:14 PM

Few viewers of the PBS high-definition channel realize that it doesn't exclusively air HD programming--or that most of it, in fact, is standard-definition video that's been upconverted to HD.
I know Motorweek is one of those. I've even seen chroma rainbows at times!!

One clue is the little voice/logo before the program. If it just says 'Widescreen', it's probably upconverted SD.

It also doesn't help when SD is upconverted to 1080i for the PBSHD feed, then WTTW downconverts it to 720P, then your cable/satellite box or TV converts it to 1080i, then your TV converts it to it's native format!!

sebenste

03-23-07, 01:20 AM

For those of you who loved WMVT-DT 35 (36.1) up in Milwaukee with its pure 1080i signal...they were just having technical difficulties. We have been rest assured that they are back at full 1080i, 19.3 mb/sec full bandwidth of HD.

If ya wanna see what PBS-HD *really* looks like, next time you have tropo,
tune to 35-1 and drop your jaw...

Rammitinski

03-23-07, 04:10 AM

I think I'll just devote my energy and resources to getting WMVT-DT as well as possible, as far as PBS HD goes.

WTTW can just stick it. Let them dilute themselves into one, big jumbled mess for all I care.

About the upconverted PBS-HD programs:
My TVGOS guide specifies whether something is in HD or not, so I often check that to be sure. In fact, I did it just tonight when they were showing Union Station on Austin City Limits. I thought it appeared kind of soft, so I checked, and it wasn't in HD.

tem

03-23-07, 07:31 PM

After ~2.5 years of using a Silver Sensor screwed to the top of my chimney for OTA reception, I decided to get something more permanent and purchased a Winegard 7082 from Tri-State Electronics for use w/ my HR10-250 TiVO. I am 3.1 & 3.2 miles from the Hancock & Sears Tower (with line-of-sight to both), respectively, in the Wicker Park neighborhood of the city.

Even though the Silver Sensor is technically a UHF-only antenna, I have still been able to get CBS with no problem over the years and was getting an average of 88-94% signal strength for all the other channels. The reason I wanted to replace it was that, being an "indoor" antenna, I am currently on my 2nd or 3rd antenna after the connectors/wires on the others have deteriorated over time.

One would expect the 7082 to be at least as good as the SS but that is most definitely not what I've seen so far. After installing it, multiple aiming attempts and subsequent double and triple checking of the couplings from the connector box to the antenna leads, I got very poor signal strength on the UHF channels -- around 50-60%, with WTTW not coming in at all and only 0-20% for CBS, with it varying back and forth from 0 to 20 repeatedly and never getting a signal lock. The same cable was used for both antennae.

I tried calling Tri-State and they basically had no suggestions other than that I'm possibly getting *too much* signal and to try an attenuator and to call Winegard, which I tried doing but all I got was voicemail when calling their 800 number :mad:

As of now I'm reconnected to the SS. The CBS feed is OK now but isn't reliable. I can use the east coast DirecTV feed for it if I need it.

Anyone have any ideas ? This sort of annoyance is probably what is going to lead me back to Comcast once they get a TiVO-based DVR.

edit: I guess I can try quad-shield cable but it'd be odd (I think) that the SS would be fine w/ the cable I'm using (generic Radio Shack stuff) while the 7082 is not.

sebenste

03-23-07, 08:21 PM

After ~2.5 years of using a Silver Sensor screwed to the top of my chimney for OTA reception, I decided to get something more permanent and purchased a Winegard 7082 from Tri-State Electronics for use w/ my HR10-250 TiVO. I am 3.1 & 3.2 miles from the Hancock & Sears Tower (with line-of-sight to both), respectively, in the Wicker Park neighborhood of the city.

One would expect the 7082 to be at least as good as the SS but that is most definitely not what I've seen so far. After installing it, multiple aiming attempts and subsequent double and triple checking of the couplings from the connector box to the antenna leads, I got very poor signal strength on the UHF channels -- around 50-60%, with WTTW not coming in at all and only 0-20% for CBS, with it varying back and forth from 0 to 20 repeatedly and never getting a signal lock. The same cable was used for both antennae.

As of now I'm reconnected to the SS. The CBS feed is OK now but isn't reliable. I can use the east coast DirecTV feed for it if I need it.

Anyone have any ideas ? This sort of annoyance is probably what is going to lead me back to Comcast once they get a TiVO-based DVR.

edit: I guess I can try quad-shield cable but it'd be odd (I think) that the SS would be fine w/ the cable I'm using (generic Radio Shack stuff) while the 7082 is not.
Tem,

Wow. I looked to make sure I didn't recommend that antenna to you from a distance of 3 miles out. You are having four problems here, my guess:

1) Overloaded signal
2) Bad connections/connectors
3) Multipath
4) Signal leaking in dual-shield cable causing cancellation and other issues

Check #2 first. Can you hook it up to an analog TV or VCR and see how that works? If it is snowy, something is seriously wrong with your connection to the antenna. If it isn't, and you are seeing weird interference, #1 is the problem.

If it is overload, and with a clear shot to both, that would be my guess, you are overloading the tuner.

http://www.antennasdirect.com/attenuator.html

Before you do this, however, again...make sure everything is connected well at the antenna and at every point to your TV, and put it on an analog tuner to see how well they come in. If it's snowy, a connection is shot somewhere. Let me know what you see.

tem

03-24-07, 01:29 PM

Tem,

Wow. I looked to make sure I didn't recommend that antenna to you from a distance of 3 miles out. You are having four problems here, my guess:

1) Overloaded signal
2) Bad connections/connectors
3) Multipath
4) Signal leaking in dual-shield cable causing cancellation and other issues

Check #2 first. Can you hook it up to an analog TV or VCR and see how that works? If it is snowy, something is seriously wrong with your connection to the antenna. If it isn't, and you are seeing weird interference, #1 is the problem.

If it is overload, and with a clear shot to both, that would be my guess, you are overloading the tuner.

http://www.antennasdirect.com/attenuator.html

Before you do this, however, again...make sure everything is connected well at the antenna and at every point to your TV, and put it on an analog tuner to see how well they come in. If it's snowy, a connection is shot somewhere. Let me know what you see.

thanks. I'll try troubleshooting and will let you know what I find.

Rammitinski

03-24-07, 04:46 PM

Gilbert -

What is this "analog channel 6" you mentioned in the "sticky" thread that we are supposed to soon be getting in our area?

And why in the world would a new station spend all that money to start out on analog when they'll just have to switch over to digital so soon?

sebenste

03-24-07, 05:11 PM

Gilbert -

What is this "analog channel 6" you mentioned in the "sticky" thread that we are supposed to soon be getting in our area?

That would be the old analog channel 55 that displayed infomercials, some music videos, and was a simulcast of a low-power station (I think) in Los Angeles.

And why in the world would a new station spend all that money to start out on analog when they'll just have to switch over to digital so soon?

$$$$. The company who owns those analog channels (55/61, soon to be 6/61)
are applying for digital channels, so that they can sell the channels to another buyer. They're just placeholders for the next guy and they're just running the cheapest programs possible to keep the thing official with the FCC. I saw an article somewhere where they wanted something like $10 million plus for those analog and digital LP's.

I would love to know how "far" analog channel 6 gets at 3 kw. We'll soon find out.

Rammitinski

03-24-07, 06:19 PM

I would love to know how "far" analog channel 6 gets at 3 kw. We'll soon find out.Is the signal coming from downtown?

sebenste

03-24-07, 08:05 PM

Is the signal coming from downtown?
Yepppppers. From the Hancock.

sebenste

03-25-07, 02:25 PM

This is the third or fourth time in a row that WMAQ isn't showing the NHL in HD/widescreen. Granted, I can get that from Rockford's WREX (and am doing so), but I wonder if they know about this...especially since this is coming straight from New York and not in WMAQ's control, IIRC.

Somebody nudge the guy at 30 Rock to throw the switch!

Edit: interesting that they are showing the NewYork game on analog, and the Boston game on digital, when it should be the other way around. WREX is doing the exact same thing, but the Boston game is in HD.

Edit: Now all channels are showing the NY game in the third period, but it is in SD (as NBC said it would be).

ralphyboy

03-25-07, 06:04 PM

I believe this game was in HD as I watched pat of it on D* channel 82 and it looked real good. Our local NBC is a friggin joke. At least golf was n HD.

andy.s.lee

03-26-07, 06:53 AM

Since a few people have expressed additional interest in transmitter coverage maps, I'd like to direct readers of this thread to this post (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=10127219&&#post10127219) in the OTA Software Tools thread.

A careful review of the data would be appreciated since the people here know much more about the local transmitters than I do.

Best regards,
Andy

moxie1617

03-26-07, 10:28 AM

I believe this game was in HD as I watched pat of it on D* channel 82 and it looked real good. Our local NBC is a friggin joke. At least golf was n HD.

2nd that! :mad:

flyborg

03-27-07, 12:01 AM

No comments? I spent a year trying different (indoor) antennas and finally gave up. Then bought a new TV and then a new antenna just for that (50in plasma) and... eureka! Here it is: CBS in all its glory....

Can anyone try this small indoor antenna (Terk TV-5) and let me know if I just got lucky or is this thing is really good at pulling VHF?

I have this antenna in Schaumburg. Useless for WBBM, the analog signal is unwatchable. I could get it to lock individual strong UHF HD signals, but not consistently, and only by moving it to ridiculous positions around the room. Only way I've received WBBM HD is by use of the infamous L-tenna folded dipole which I posted on in the old thread.

Finally stuck a high-gain UHF antenna on the chimney via some RG-6. This gets me everything but WBBM, which since I don't watch CSI I only care about when there is an AFC NFL game.

When cutover happens, I'll probably put a VHF-HI antenna up on the pole with the UHF antenna. Or maybe by then AT&T will be delivering the dirt-cheap HD they keep telling me about in all those ads ...bu ha hahah.....

R Johnson

03-27-07, 06:24 PM

"The First Emperor" from the Metropolitan Opera is listed for WTTWD 11-1 on Wednesday 3/28 at 7:00 pm. Shot live in 1080i. Full info at http://www.pbs.org/wnet/gperf/shows/gpatmet/emperor.html
Directed by Zhang Yimou (of House of Flying Daggers fame). Music by Tan Dun (Hero, and Crouching Tiger, Hidden Dragon)

Give it a try...

Jeeky

03-28-07, 01:24 PM

Hi all, first post, noob, learning but not bright, please be kind ;)

According to antennaweb, I am located 49 deg 0.4 miles from the Sears Tower (line of sight out my balcony) and 32 deg 1.9 miles from the Hancock (the entire loop in the way).

Not knowing any better, it seems like I am close and should get a strong clear signal.

But I got an antenna from Radio Shack, can't recall model off-hand but could get it once I'm home, and I basically got one very weak signal for ABC 7 and the rest static.

Do you think I should consider a different antenna?

Or maybe my setup was wrong? (I just tried to point it in different directions and run some cheap cable so I could place it near the wall facing the Sears tower.)

Or is it just hard to get a good signal that close to the city?

Please help, my stupid building only gets Dish, but doesn't support any local HD channels!

epsilon

03-28-07, 02:04 PM

Are you trying to receive digital or analog channels? You shouldn't be seeing static when using a digital tuner. Also, is the antenna UHF, VHF, or both? Uni- or omni-directional?

Jeeky

03-28-07, 02:53 PM

Thanks for the replies.

The antenna's box says it receives UHF,VHF,FM,HD.

Perhaps I am just not using the antenna correctly if I am not supposed to be seeing static. I was just trying to flip through channels after connecting it to my TV.

The cable is an old one, I highly doubt it is up to any kind of a newer standard. Should I be able to keep the antenna close to the TV and receive a good signal given my location?

I'll fiddle around some more and post the antenna specs after I get home.

moxie1617

03-28-07, 03:06 PM

R Johnson

03-28-07, 03:36 PM

Did you know that WTTW Digital will downrez the broadcast to 720p and bit starve the signal with their three additional subchannels?

I'm well aware of that. But based on viewing the two previous Met Opera broadcasts on my 720p projector, I expect this to look quite good. (And significantly better than at the movie theaters.) If you get a chance to see a bit of the show, I'd be interested in your opinion.

rad

03-28-07, 03:50 PM

Perhaps I am just not using the antenna correctly if I am not supposed to be seeing static. I was just trying to flip through channels after connecting it to my TV.

After you hooked up the antenna did you do a channel scan for ATSC (digital) stations? Usually ATSC tuners require that you do a scan for available stations before you can tune them in.

jmdomini

03-28-07, 06:47 PM

Another curse at WTTW. I've been trying to record "Southwest Suburbs: Birthplace of Chicago" but it's pledge time. The start and end times they have listed are wrong because of this. The first try the end got cut off, tried again for today and I see the beginning got cut off. Can't y'all plan ahead how long you are going to blather and post the times correctly? Not to mention I'm not going to give them any money as long as they keep degrading 11.1 to make room for more stupid subchannels. :mad:

jcr74

03-28-07, 07:18 PM

i was able to finally nail it down (southwest suburbs on wttw) today by looking at the schedule on wttw.com and padding the heck out of it. i, too, think it is a little underhanded of them to purposely misstate program times so that people cannot record them.

oh ya, not only did i capture it, but i edited out all the pledge pitches in between.

note to wttw: welcome to the 21st century folks, find a new way to raise money.

pbassett

04-01-07, 12:48 PM

No Joke! Channel 5 is finally showing the NHL in HD!

Looks like the equipment they have been waiting for all season is up and running. Just in time for the playoffs.

There's nothing like hockey in HD.

sebenste

04-01-07, 11:18 PM

Thanks to Andy Lee for updating the Longley-Rice maps for the Chicago area, and for a file showing where all the analog and digital low and full power stations broadcast from exactly. I updated the posts at the start of this thread to show you how and where you can download it for Google Earth. It is WAY cool!

Thanks again, Andy!

mk1277

04-02-07, 10:59 PM

So I bought a new (bigger) antenna a couple weeks ago to try and get a better signal for CBS. I still had no luck with it despite a better and more consistent signal. (probably still only about 20%). I accepted the fact that I probably still needed to add a preamp. I never got around to it and tonight decided to check if I could lock into the game (remembering posts about signal boost during the SuperBowl).

It would appear that either there's some really interesting tropo going on during major sporting events, or someone flipped a switch. :) We'll see when this ends. Granted, I'm getting a lot of pixellation and audio drops, but this is the first time I've ever even been able to receive a signal for CBS. Looks excellent when I get it. :)

Can someone confirm this or maybe explain what CBS is doing? I'd love to know as it may help me tune it in all the time (maybe just a preamp or FM trap will help?).

JSchultz

04-02-07, 11:06 PM

Quick question.

I own a sharp 1080p set. I noticed that dancing with the stars (720p) looks a fair bit worse than Leno & Conan (1080i) .

Am I crazy, or is there something up?

sebenste

04-03-07, 12:34 AM

mk1277

04-03-07, 08:37 AM

You are correct with the tropo.

Yeah, turned on the TV this AM and CBS is gone. Have to say that the absence of subchannels really makes a difference. What a picture they had for the game last night!

FWIW, my signal stays at about 60-65% on all UHF and only about 15% on CBS (antenna in attic about 38 miles out). Occasionally CBS will jump to about 60%, but drops faster than the tuner can pick it up. I noticed last night that it was about 65% when I was getting a good picture. At its worst, it stayed at about 15-20% with really bad pixellation - basically unwatchable.

So Sebenste, do you think that a preamp will solve my CBS problems forever? I know that you've posted recommended models before on this board. Not sure if there's one powerful enough to really help me. As usual, thanks in advance for your time/advise.

sebenste

04-03-07, 10:10 AM

Yeah, turned on the TV this AM and CBS is gone. Have to say that the absence of subchannels really makes a difference. What a picture they had for the game last night!

FWIW, my signal stays at about 60-65% on all UHF and only about 15% on CBS (antenna in attic about 38 miles out). Occasionally CBS will jump to about 60%, but drops faster than the tuner can pick it up. I noticed last night that it was about 65% when I was getting a good picture. At its worst, it stayed at about 15-20% with really bad pixellation - basically unwatchable.

So Sebenste, do you think that a preamp will solve my CBS problems forever? I know that you've posted recommended models before on this board. Not sure if there's one powerful enough to really help me. As usual, thanks in advance for your time/advise.

Hey MJ,

What antenna are you using, brand/model? Also, is there an amplifier or preamplifier on there now? I need to know that first. Thanks!

mk1277

04-03-07, 10:41 AM

Hey MJ,

What antenna are you using, brand/model? Also, is there an amplifier or preamplifier on there now? I need to know that first. Thanks!

Hiya. The antenna is a Philips SDV9011K/17 (or MANT901). I know I didn't get a Winegard or CM - don't laugh. :) There is no preamp/amp on the line right now. I noticed a considerable increase in the stability of my signal over my old (and small) Winegard (see the old thread around SuperBowl time).

I don't have the full dimensions of the antenna, but it's boom is about twice my old one and it has 51 elements. I grabbed the Philips while I was at Menard's. If I lived closer to Arlington Heights, I'd go to Tri-State but I'm out in Plainfield so I went with this for convenience.

sebenste

04-03-07, 11:27 AM

Hiya. The antenna is a Philips SDV9011K/17 (or MANT901). I know I didn't get a Winegard or CM - don't laugh. :) There is no preamp/amp on the line right now. I noticed a considerable increase in the stability of my signal over my old (and small) Winegard (see the old thread around SuperBowl time).

Hi MK (I'll get the initials right one of these days. I'm not a morning person! :D )

I don't have the full dimensions of the antenna, but it's boom is about twice my old one and it has 51 elements. I grabbed the Philips while I was at Menard's. If I lived closer to Arlington Heights, I'd go to Tri-State but I'm out in Plainfield so I went with this for convenience.

Well...two things.

One, I haven't had any experience with this antenna, and two, the design looks pretty good. BUT...

The antenna elements don't appear long enough to support getting WBBM well. You could try a decent preamplifier...but be advised you could overload the UHF stations and cause problems. Unfortunately, because the FCC didn't make it convenient for us to get WBBM on channel 3, you can't have convenience with this problem, either. :( If you are only getting 10% or 20% signal, a ChannelMaster 7777 preamp might help...or it might not. You really need one of the antennas listed on my post near the top of the thread for you to have a reasonable chance. You can try that preamp, but I give it, or any preamp, less than a 50% chance to work. The only thing I would suggest is tune to channel 3
on your DTV tuner and readjust or move your antenna for the best possible reception, and if at all possible, get it outdoors. If you still can't get higher than 20% for a signal, return the antenna, and either get one of the antennas known to work at that distance and swallow the $10 in gas and tolls, or order them online. Sorry. :(

andyross63

04-03-07, 11:29 AM

Haven't seen this mentioned: NBC Nightly News is now in HD.

mk1277

04-03-07, 12:06 PM

Hi MK (I'll get the initials right one of these days. I'm not a morning person! :D )

Well...two things.

One, I haven't had any experience with this antenna, and two, the design looks pretty good. BUT...

The antenna elements don't appear long enough to support getting WBBM well. You could try a decent preamplifier...but be advised you could overload the UHF stations and cause problems. Unfortunately, because the FCC didn't make it convenient for us to get WBBM on channel 3, you can't have convenience with this problem, either. :( If you are only getting 10% or 20% signal, a ChannelMaster 7777 preamp might help...or it might not. You really need one of the antennas listed on my post near the top of the thread for you to have a reasonable chance. You can try that preamp, but I give it, or any preamp, less than a 50% chance to work. The only thing I would suggest is tune to channel 3
on your DTV tuner and readjust or move your antenna for the best possible reception, and if at all possible, get it outdoors. If you still can't get higher than 20% for a signal, return the antenna, and either get one of the antennas known to work at that distance and swallow the $10 in gas and tolls, or order them online. Sorry. :(

Hey Sebenste. No problem. I knew that I was kinda going on the low end with this one and should have gone for the sure thing with those other antennas. FWIW, the longest elements are 51" in each direction (so 102" tip to tip). I'll look into the preamp or maybe I can add a couple of longer elements? Just a thought since the last 4 elements are easily removed with a nut and bolt. Personally, I think my biggest problem is that I have it in the attic. The VHF elements are WELL into the attic space and away from the outside wall due to the size. I have the antenna oriented with a compass according to antennaweb, but maybe there's a sweet spot somewhere. As an aside, antenna started picking up the signal again this AM. Still not really watchable, but oh so close.

Thanks as always.

sebenste

04-03-07, 12:28 PM

Hey Sebenste. No problem. I knew that I was kinda going on the low end with this one and should have gone for the sure thing with those other antennas. FWIW, the longest elements are 51" in each direction (so 102" tip to tip). I'll look into the preamp or maybe I can add a couple of longer elements? Just a thought since the last 4 elements are easily removed with a nut and bolt. Personally, I think my biggest problem is that I have it in the attic. The VHF elements are WELL into the attic space and away from the outside wall due to the size. I have the antenna oriented with a compass according to antennaweb, but maybe there's a sweet spot somewhere. As an aside, antenna started picking up the signal again this AM. Still not really watchable, but oh so close.

Thanks as always.

Nah, don't mess with the elements, or it will make reception worse. Try the preamp, and see if it does the trick, but make sure you can return it. The chances for success here don't sound good with that antenna, but if you're willing to gamble...and yes, I understand. My VHF antenna in my attic has the longest rods on the west side of my townhome, which doesn't help me. But, to be honest, it doesn't matter because of my distance to WBBM anyway.

GG386

04-03-07, 09:50 PM

Nah, don't mess with the elements, or it will make reception worse. Try the preamp, and see if it does the trick, but make sure you can return it. The chances for success here don't sound good with that antenna, but if you're willing to gamble...and yes, I understand. My VHF antenna in my attic has the longest rods on the west side of my townhome, which doesn't help me. But, to be honest, it doesn't matter because of my distance to WBBM anyway.

Hey guys, haven't visited in awhile.

I'm around 10 -15 miles further from the towers than MC is, as you probably remember I finally ended up with the 8200. I did experiment with the philips brand form Menards, but was a poor performer for me- (MK, I hope you saved the box, because it is returnable even with those POS papers they call instructions ;) )

Gilbert, I think a lot of issues our fellow members are having maybe directly related as to what tuners there using and of course wiring. Case in point, as I opened this thread up tonight, it's windy as all hell out there- not exactly ideal OTA conditions. My 3 year old display pulls in 2 just fine but 7 is a little messed up. So just for s****s and giggles I went to one of my other tv"s (both less than a year old) and BOTH locked in glorious HD.

Same wiring, same antenna, same splitter, same conditions but different results.

As far as the preamp thing, I tried it once, that's when I just had my powered 4-way splitter, it made the things worse. I have just installed a new 8-way splitter (powered) and I may give it another shot (preamp) because of that 360' run I've got going on. Think it might help, or a waste of time?

sebenste

04-03-07, 11:58 PM

Hey guys, haven't visited in awhile.

I'm around 10 -15 miles further from the towers than MC is, as you probably remember I finally ended up with the 8200. I did experiment with the philips brand form Menards, but was a poor performer for me- (MK, I hope you saved the box, because it is returnable even with those POS papers they call instructions ;) )

Gilbert, I think a lot of issues our fellow members are having maybe directly related as to what tuners there using and of course wiring. Case in point, as I opened this thread up tonight, it's windy as all hell out there- not exactly ideal OTA conditions. My 3 year old display pulls in 2 just fine but 7 is a little messed up. So just for s****s and giggles I went to one of my other tv"s (both less than a year old) and BOTH locked in glorious HD.

Same wiring, same antenna, same splitter, same conditions but different results.

As far as the preamp thing, I tried it once, that's when I just had my powered 4-way splitter, it made the things worse. I have just installed a new 8-way splitter (powered) and I may give it another shot (preamp) because of that 360' run I've got going on. Think it might help, or a waste of time?

Hey GG,

Last for your last question, try it without the preamp...can't hurt, although I suspect you'll need an amplifier of about 10 dB.

As for the tuner issue, that is true. But there are other factors: quality of the wiring, what interference it encounters along the way (computer? Fluorescent light? Dimmer switch?). I know, other people say I am flat wrong on this, but I have seen it with my own eyes: RG-6 cable, minimum, and if at all possible, ALWAYS go with the quad-shield stuff to reject all the RF garbage that's floating around in one's home. It does help, if only a little. But with digital, you need all the help you can get with over-the-air.

As for the wind...well, wind has absolutely no effect on your reception. But the *effects* of it do, primary with trees changing the signal path. That can cause breaksups. When they brought in warm air aloft yesterday evening but kept the near-ground and ground layers chilly, that caused a temperature "inversion" with warm air aloft that caused the signals to bounce off the layer 3,000 feet high, essentially making the transmitters that tall to some extent.

If you don't have multipath, then it's a tuner sensitivity issue...and since generation 4, that's been fine. If there is multipath, the 5th and now-coming-onboard 6th generation handle those well. The main problem is getting that antenna outside if more than 15 miles away, or getting a big enough antenna if in the attic. That is the big issue most people face. Next to getting big enough antenna "arms" to get WBBM, of course.

mk1277

04-04-07, 10:10 AM

(MK, I hope you saved the box, because it is returnable even with those POS papers they call instructions ;) )

LOL, man if that isn't the truth. Those papers suck. Worst. instructions. ever.

Gilbert, I think a lot of issues our fellow members are having maybe directly related as to what tuners there using and of course wiring.

I know, other people say I am flat wrong on this, but I have seen it with my own eyes: RG-6 cable, minimum, and if at all possible, ALWAYS go with the quad-shield stuff to reject all the RF garbage that's floating around in one's home.

I'd have to agree too. I have a LST-3510A with 1.91 firmware. It works well in general, but I have a feeling that something isn't quite right with it (or maybe some wiring). I posted a questions to the main AVS forum about my TV "blacking out" when a HD signal has a bright flash on the screen or goes from really dark scene to really bright scene. I'll lose the picture for 1-2 seconds and in most cases lose the aspect setting on my 4:3 HDTV.

For the longest time I thought it was the TV, but now I'm not so sure. Since putting up the new antenna, the symptoms have significantly decreased. Not sure why this is, but I suspect either a cabling issue or my tuner likes this stronger signal. I've noticed that it tunes channels faster (locks on faster?) and the guide info tends to be more complete as well.

I could have sworn I installed quad shielded cable, but maybe I didn't. I do have to run the last 30-40 ft in a common channel in my ceiling with about 4 cat5e cables, a few quad shield cables for sat, and very close to the can lighting in the ceiling. Oh, and I have CFC bulbs in the cans. Kinda ugly. I'd love to try another OTA tuner to test my theory, but us OTA HD folk are a bit hard to come by. :)

Gilbert, I know there are the next gen tuners coming out but where do you get them? Online only? Every time I've looked, it's near impossible to find out any specs or info for new tuners.

As always, thanks for the info. Glad to know there are others out here like me. It's just sad that we don't have more HD content to watch.

sebenste

04-04-07, 10:43 AM

Gilbert, I know there are the next gen tuners coming out but where do you get them? Online only? Every time I've looked, it's near impossible to find out any specs or info for new tuners.

As always, thanks for the info. Glad to know there are others out here like me. It's just sad that we don't have more HD content to watch.

Yeah, with all that stuff in your wiring up there, I'd go with quad-shielded. Try that first. It can only help.

As for the next-gen tuners, unfortunately I don't know when the LG 6th gen chip will be out, but I have heard by early next year. I suspect it will be earlier. That's the one I want...it has the drastically improved multipath reception, but it also has an incredible capture capability that pushes the reception of signals to the absolute limit. It literally is right there at the theoretical limit of how good a chip can be (and they still haven't perfected that with analog yet!), and it only took less than a decade instead of 50 years for analog. Not bad!

If I hear of anything, I'll let you know, but I can assure you, it will either be in those little boxes for the $40 analog-digital transition tuners, or in new TV's. We probably won't see many more converter boxes made.

mk1277

04-04-07, 06:12 PM

If I hear of anything, I'll let you know, but I can assure you, it will either be in those little boxes for the $40 analog-digital transition tuners, or in new TV's. We probably won't see many more converter boxes made.

Thanks for the info. I've really enjoyed my uber-cheap setup. Even with a 5-6 year old CRT HDTV and the LG tuner, I'd say that the picture quality rivals my brother's Samsung DLP set that I just watched this weekend. Shame that OTA STBs are so hard to come by.

In the meantime, I'll test out the wiring. I think I may have bought the plain dual shielded RG-6 when I ran the line. :o Baseball season is upon us, so CBS isn't as important right now. I'll get to it eventually. :)

hvs10trk

04-04-07, 09:07 PM

Hello all,
We will be making some minor changes to 26.1 and its 5.1 audio. In the next week our 5.1 audio will be a more descrete 5.1. I don't have an exact date yet on the transition but its very soon. Hope you enjoy the new "Sound" of WCIU-HD. I will post once the change has been made and viewer comments are encouraged. :D

GG386

04-04-07, 09:15 PM

sebenste

04-04-07, 09:20 PM

Within the past month I've been noticing some pixelation w ch7 while 2 is still locking in solid. If ch2 comes in solid, does that mean my antenna is aimed properly?

Interestingly, my ISP turned there antenna 90degrees on it axis (not direction) last month which sits ABOVE my 8200. I wasn't home when they did the work, but I assume they took down the mast, turned it and maybe did not index where the antenna was originally. If I'm knocking the socks off WBBM, why wouldn't that automatically line me up for 7 or is something going on with ABC signal wise?
I guess I can blame it on that coyote that ventured in Quisno's yesterday :p

Ding! I'm sure they didn't point it correctly. It sounds like it's pointed a bit further north, which is why you're hitting the Hancock, and WBBM so well 50 miles out.

"Hitting the Hancock, and WBBM so well 50 miles out". Don't you wish you had GG's problems, everybody? :D

sebenste

04-04-07, 10:50 PM

This time, it's Waubonsee College out in Sugar Grove, west of Aurora.
At a scant 1 kw, their analog signal barely covers their city of license,
Sugar Grove (although they do have an application to go 23 kw). But, their
new application on channel 40 to flash-cut to digital goes almost all the
way north to I-90, covers DeKalb and Sycamore and west of Waterman on the
west, and as far east as Naperville.

http://www.fcc.gov/fcc-bin/FMTV-service-area?x=LD1173695.html

They have to protect the 8 kw TBN low-power DTV translator on 40 as well,
thus the crimped signal to the east.

I updated:

http://weather.niu.edu/dtvstations.xls

and the list on page 1 to show the new proposed station.

shanks909

04-04-07, 10:52 PM

hvs10trk

04-05-07, 06:20 AM

Those of us with Dish Network 622 receivers are still unable to receive 26.1-26.3. Any progress to report??
Out of yucks, have you tried entering in 27.1??? Got a wierd encoder problem that's affecting newer generation chipsets that when you re-scan we show up as 27.1, 2, and 3. The VIP-622 problem quite posibly could be related to the same encoder issue. We've analyzed our PSIP six was from sunday and compared it to everyone else in Chicago and there's nothing wrong with it. Hopefully I'll have some good news soon. :D

hvs10trk

04-05-07, 10:08 AM

Those of us with Dish Network 622 receivers are still unable to receive 26.1-26.3. Any progress to report??
Try us now.

(l)user

04-05-07, 12:21 PM

Try us now.

Since there are some people from the station I want to ask that questions out of curiosity.. Why all of the local stations in Chicagoland have so many informercials on Saturday / Sunday mornings... I do not recall seeing that many in New York?

What is different about programming there and here? There is no good progamming for these timeslots? Most poeple are at home at that time....

hvs10trk

04-05-07, 01:18 PM

Since there are some people from the station I want to ask that questions out of curiosity.. Why all of the local stations in Chicagoland have so many informercials on Saturday / Sunday mornings... I do not recall seeing that many in New York?

What is different about programming there and here? There is no good progamming for these timeslots? Most poeple are at home at that time....
Airtime is much cheaper during these slots.

sebenste

04-05-07, 01:39 PM

Airtime is much cheaper during these slots.
Yeah, HVS and I were going to do "The Transmitter show" at 2 AM Monday morning with live call-ins, geeking out about the latest MPEG2 decoders, bit-rate allocating, and other burning topics on the mind of Chicagoans. But when he refused to plunk down his $.50, I backed out of it. :D

Rammitinski

04-05-07, 02:27 PM

Still would be more interesting than what's already on there then.

I seriously doubt if there are that many people out there truly in dire need of any high-colonics ;).

epsilon

04-05-07, 02:44 PM

Those of us with Dish Network 622 receivers are still unable to receive 26.1-26.3. Any progress to report??I don't recall ever having problems with 26 on my 622 (had it for a little over a year now); granted I don't watch it very much. I just checked again and I have solid reception. Signal is in the 90s with RS double bow tie, 28 miles straight shot from the tower.

PS. I've never had to tune it in manually; I rescanned just a week ago when I had the receiver replaced.

hvs10trk

04-05-07, 03:34 PM

I don't recall ever having problems with 26 on my 622 (had it for a little over a year now); granted I don't watch it very much. I just checked again and I have solid reception. Signal is in the 90s with RS double bow tie, 28 miles straight shot from the tower.

PS. I've never had to tune it in manually; I rescanned just a week ago when I had the receiver replaced.
It seems like its hit or miss. Our IT guru has the 622 and has never had a problem.

hvs10trk

04-05-07, 03:35 PM

Yeah, HVS and I were going to do "The Transmitter show" at 2 AM Monday morning with live call-ins, geeking out about the latest MPEG2 decoders, bit-rate allocating, and other burning topics on the mind of Chicagoans. But when he refused to plunk down his $.50, I backed out of it. :D
LMAO. :D

bakers12

04-05-07, 04:37 PM

I'm new to the forum, so please let me know if I'm posting this question in the wrong place.

I recently had a DirecTV HD20 DVR installed and I put a Winegard SharpShooter in the attic for OTA reception. The SharpShooter works at least 90% of the time, but I'd like to have 100% reliability.

Since my house is small, I don't want a huge roof antenna taking over. I was considering the Winegard Sensar III GS-2200 because I don't need a big performance boost -- too bad the SharpShooter isn't waterproof.

If I believe the ads, the Sensar is good for 45 miles. I'm 21 miles due West of Sears Tower. Winegard has a 38" pipe mount (DS-3000) that should also be good enough.

Does anyone in Chicagoland have experience with the Sensar?

longwong

04-05-07, 07:15 PM

My experience with the amplified Sensar II at 30 feet up outdoors has shown that it will consistently pull in WBBM DT-3 with booming signal strength in Arlington Heights. I've found it to be a very good VHF antenna that defies the logic that you would normally need to be bigger to be better. However, it is not as good with the UHF, where I've found that when the thing is properly aimed for the majority of the other stations aside from WBBM, I get some annoying drop outs on WGN during oddball atmospheric conditions and WCPX doesn't always lock. It also picks up from the rear, which means that the PSIP info for WCIU screws up half the time. At least it's discreet enough not to tick off your neighbors though, and it blends right in with their satellite dishes.

jmdomini

04-05-07, 07:22 PM

Can you fit a bigger antenna in your attic, something like this perhaps http://www.radioshack.com/product/index.jsp?productId=2103085&cp=2032057.2032187.2032189.2032205&parentPage=family? Even the smaller VU-75 might do it, as usual WBBM is going to be the challenge.

I recently had a DirecTV HD20 DVR installed and I put a Winegard SharpShooter in the attic for OTA reception. The SharpShooter works at least 90% of the time, but I'd like to have 100% reliability.

swalve

04-05-07, 08:11 PM

Isn't the angular difference between the '**** and the Sears insignificant all the way out in Wilmington?

swalve

04-05-07, 08:12 PM

OK, that's supposed to be Hancock.

GG386

04-05-07, 08:26 PM

LOL,
Swalve, I just tuned in too ask the same question. As I was thinking about that same thing today, what could it be? A 1/4 inch turn in a 50 mile projection might possible get me pointing to the middle of Lake Michigan or Ohare :rolleyes: . I realize that is overstated, but the Hancock and Sears are pretty much in line to me as the crow flies.

I'm probably a good 40' up with my antenna, but if anything that (I assume) should be to my advantage.

hvs10trk

04-05-07, 09:34 PM

Isn't the angular difference between the '**** and the Sears insignificant all the way out in Wilmington?
Even for me in Crystal Lake its like a half of a degree. Nothing to sneeze at.

bakers12

04-05-07, 11:03 PM

My biggest worries are that I won't get enough altitude from the roof of my single-story house and there are trees on the next block. Antennaweb org shows my stations are in the yellow, green and red zones.

If channel 2.1 is a problem, I can live with it because I get that on the dish. But 5.2, 7.2, 9.2, 11.1 and 11.3 have to come in OTA. The Hancock is 4 degrees North from the Sears Tower for me, but 20.1 comes in OK from the Hancock on the SharpShooter.

I could get all these with a UHF antenna, but if some channels move back to VHF in a couple years, I don't want to be back at square one.

My thinking is that I just need a slightly better signal than what I'm getting now. Maybe I should order a Sensar III from someone with a good return policy. I just wish Winegard would show some specs for the Sensar on their web site.

jcr74

04-06-07, 11:42 AM

so, is the resolution change for 26-1 something that is permanent or is it part of the 5.1 upgrade mentioned earlier?

hvs10trk

04-06-07, 01:12 PM

so, is the resolution change for 26-1 something that is permanent or is it part of the 5.1 upgrade mentioned earlier?
Yes part of the upgrade. 26.1 was relocated to a backup encoder so work on the 5.1 audio on the primary encoder can be done without interrupting programming. Should be back to 720p by the end of day.

hvs10trk

04-06-07, 01:14 PM

WCIU-HD 5.1 audio upgrade should be complete for the home Bulls game on Tuesday. Cross you fingers. :o

swalve

04-06-07, 01:24 PM

Even for me in Crystal Lake its like a half of a degree. Nothing to sneeze at.

If you look at a map, the towers are side to side in relation to the NW burbs, but in line with each other in relation to Wilmington.

(l)user

04-06-07, 04:21 PM

Airtime is much cheaper during these slots.

Yeah, I figured that nobody wants to fill these slots by why?

Nobody watches TV am on Saturday or Sunday and why is Chicago market different than New York's where infomercials are a thing of 2am - 6 am timeslot only???

hvs10trk

04-07-07, 07:54 AM

Yeah, I figured that nobody wants to fill these slots by why?

Nobody watches TV am on Saturday or Sunday and why is Chicago market different than New York's where infomercials are a thing of 2am - 6 am timeslot only???
Who knows. There's a bazillion :eek: reasons why New York is different than Chicago.

liquidsense

04-07-07, 09:26 PM

Can anyone verify that WTTWD is playing Sunday's scheduled broadcast today, Saturday, 4/7/07?

I flipped on the TV hoping to watch a NOVA special on cuttlefish--instead, there is some show about Sister Aimee....terrible.

Wireman134

04-07-07, 10:34 PM

Anyone watching the Masters on WBBM-DT the picture is beautiful in Georgia... :D

ralphyboy

04-08-07, 01:59 PM

Why is WMAQ the worst station around? Here in Chicago, we have the Blackhawks @ Stars produced in HD, but not shown in HD. I finally got ahold of a guy in engineering and he said that they do not have the proper equipment to pass along the HD feed. They hope to have that in 2 months. He seemed pretty embarassed by it, but was a nice enough guy.

How can the 3rd largest NBC affiliate not be able to show HD hockey, that is friggin pathetic.

sebenste

04-08-07, 03:48 PM

ralphyboy

04-08-07, 07:14 PM

Was the game they had in HD last week the same one NY had? I suspect it was. The engineer said tht is the only way they can show them in HD.

kevin j

04-08-07, 09:08 PM

They showed a bit of the Philly game in HD btw.

sebenste

04-09-07, 12:42 AM

Was the game they had in HD last week the same one NY had? I suspect it was. The engineer said tht is the only way they can show them in HD.

Ralph,

Your comments make sense to me now. It's important to understand that WMAQ gets all of its programming from New York...except the local news. Yep, everything else is played via hard drive in a huge master control room for their eastern U.S. O&O stations there and fibered in real time to Chicago. WREX-DT Rockford, WNDU-DT South Bend, and WTMJ-DT Milwaukee, all get NBC via satellite instead of fiber, and those feeds are whatever NBC provides from the feed point instead of going through New York. In other words, if the feed to New York is only standard definition, that's all WMAQ-DT is going to get, even though those who get it directly will see HD. I side with the NBC engineer you talked to, I forgot how that was set up. Doggone, that explains why even the games in Chicago were SD. The one thing you can't blame Bill Wirtz on this time! :D NBC Engineering should have been allowed funding to get the equipment sooner, however. That way, if New York's fiber feed goes down, WMAQ can still broadcast in HD, or if the game out of New York isn't in HD, they can still get it viasatellite in HD.

And it DOES mean, as a result, that the NBC affiliates in surrounding markets saw it all in HD. In fact, in the Hawks' game they had several weeks ago, WREX even had a backhaul feed which WAS in HD, but for only two periods. Then it was shut off, leaving WREX-DT in a test pattern until the master control guy saw it and flipped it to the SD feed.

cheer

04-09-07, 08:40 PM

Now if only we could understand why they can only show the first 30 minutes of Law and Order: SVU in HD. (Seriously...every week, when it comes back from the commercial break at around 30 minutes, it's in SD and stays that way.)

hvs10trk

04-10-07, 09:01 PM

Our "New and Improved" 5.1 audio is in effect. Sounds great on my end. :D Curious if anyone else watched the Bulls game and has feedback.

longwong

04-10-07, 11:02 PM

Did anyone else notice that some of the SD commercials during the Bulls game were stretched to fill the screen? Still nice to see HD back on the U, though.

UncD2000

04-11-07, 10:22 AM

Our "New and Improved" 5.1 audio is in effect. Sounds great on my end. :D Curious if anyone else watched the Bulls game and has feedback.The 5.1 audio sounded great on my system as well. Like the previous HD Bulls home game on WCIU, the PQ was fine, with no trace of flashing or motion artifacts.

I do have one question, which I also asked after the previous HD game. I keep my 1080P Sony LCD set for zero overscan ("full pixel display"), and there was a constant small vertical band in the lower left corner during both HD games. The lower 3" is red, and the final 1" (which curves to the left and disappears offscreen) is white. Above that area, the left edge is fine to the top of the screen. It's just a slight distraction, and I won't engage overscan to hide it, but was just wondering if WCIU could get rid of it.

hvs10trk

04-11-07, 11:21 AM

The 5.1 audio sounded great on my system as well. Like the previous HD Bulls home game on WCIU, the PQ was fine, with no trace of flashing or motion artifacts.

I do have one question, which I also asked after the previous HD game. I keep my 1080P Sony LCD set for zero overscan ("full pixel display"), and there was a constant small vertical band in the lower left corner during both HD games. The lower 3" is red, and the final 1" (which curves to the left and disappears offscreen) is white. Above that area, the left edge is fine to the top of the screen. It's just a slight distraction, and I won't engage overscan to hide it, but was just wondering if WCIU could get rid of it.
Waiting for a firmware update that "allegedly" gets rid of that. (Last few updates were real winners :eek: )

Rammitinski

04-12-07, 04:26 PM

Anybody here seen the "Nature's Colors" special on WTTW-HD?

Whoa!!

That one's gonna stay on my DVR for a LONG time to come!

A real "jaw-dropper"!

GG386

04-12-07, 06:12 PM

11.1 is worth the price of admission just by itself, the rest of the channels are icing on the cake! ;)

bclbob

04-12-07, 08:49 PM

bclbob

04-12-07, 09:50 PM

Rammitinski

04-12-07, 10:31 PM

larceny, I also live in zip code 60302 and WBBM-HD is receiveable with a pair of old rabbit ears fully horizontal in the attic, in parallel to Oak Park Ave. WBBM-DT was "too easy" for me to receive!Maybe he lives right next to the "El" tracks ;).

hvs10trk

04-13-07, 06:15 AM

Maybe he lives right next to the "L" tracks ;).
"Mr. Apartment right by the El tracks guy......."

mk1277

04-13-07, 10:24 AM

Is there any good reason that WPWR-DT would suddenly appear on 51-3 on my tuner? My tuner used to map this to it's "correct" 50-1. I'm thinking more and more that any of my signal problems are due to my LG tuner. Something just doesn't seem right if it's randomly changing the channel assignment. Very weird.

cheer

04-13-07, 11:24 AM

Anyone know how to get WMAQ-DT fixed when they do the "letterboxed" 16:9 in the 4:3 center of a 16:9 picture. My understanding is that since its national programming the switch is thrown by NBC (in New York) ... it seems like with "The Office" they mess this up on a regular basis ... tonight it appears the whole 30 minute show is affected. [Fortunately I still get WNBC-DT via satellite and that is ok]
That's not an aspect-ratio problem; that means they're not in HD. WMAQ does this from time to time. Happens to the last half of Law & Order SVU every week, as far as I can tell, and often happens to other shows. I don't know why.

I've emailed the engineering dept. on several occasions but never gotten a response, so I don't know whether the emails are just hitting the bit bucket or whether they don't pay attention or what. Overall I'm not impressed with WMAQ...in addition to this SD/HD problem, the volume delta between SD commercials and HD/5.1 programming is MUCH worse than on any other channel. Plus, when they switch from commercial to program (might be when they go local to national, or when they go 2.0 to 5.1, not sure) I hear a loud CRACKLE on my receiver. It just sounds awful, and nobody else does it.

Other stations seem to be making regular improvements. WLS seems to have eliminated its center-channel-audio problem from a year or so ago, and we're all aware of the work going on with WCIU, but WMAQ seems fundamentally no different from when I started watching HD a year and a half ago.

Maybe there are a lot of things going on behind the scenes, but I don't see it.

sebenste

04-13-07, 11:53 AM

hvs10trk

04-13-07, 02:20 PM

I've emailed the engineering dept. on several occasions but never gotten a response, so I don't know whether the emails are just hitting the bit bucket or whether they don't pay attention or what. Overall I'm not impressed with WMAQ...in addition to this SD/HD problem, the volume delta between SD commercials and HD/5.1 programming is MUCH worse than on any other channel. Plus, when they switch from commercial to program (might be when they go local to national, or when they go 2.0 to 5.1, not sure) I hear a loud CRACKLE on my receiver. It just sounds awful, and nobody else does it.
It has to do with how they switch from SD to HD. The crackle you hear is the digital audio unclocking and re-clocking. Most likely from a small HD switcher switching between NBC HD and WMAQ upconverted. ABC network had the same setup for its affiliates but WLS does not use this setup.

Other stations seem to be making regular improvements. WLS seems to have eliminated its center-channel-audio problem from a year or so ago, and we're all aware of the work going on with WCIU, but WMAQ seems fundamentally no different from when I started watching HD a year and a half ago.

Just wait till we THX certify our station. :eek: :eek: :eek: Just kidding. :D

andyross63

04-13-07, 05:05 PM

It has to do with how they switch from SD to HD. The crackle you hear is the digital audio unclocking and re-clocking. Most likely from a small HD switcher switching between NBC HD and WMAQ upconverted. ABC network had the same setup for its affiliates but WLS does not use this setup.
WLS now forces 5.1 for everything. I think the same as WGN. No more popping and snapping during changes.

I started watching 30 Rock and was afraid it would be SD, too. They finally switched to HD after about 15-20 seconds.

hvs10trk

04-13-07, 07:17 PM

WLS now forces 5.1 for everything. I think the same as WGN. No more popping and snapping during changes.

I started watching 30 Rock and was afraid it would be SD, too. They finally switched to HD after about 15-20 seconds.
We force every 5.1 as well, well at least on WCIU anyways.

andyross63

04-14-07, 12:31 PM

We force every 5.1 as well, well at least on WCIU anyways.
Unfortunately, Comcast doesn't carry it yet. Any news on if, or when?

ralphyboy

04-14-07, 02:39 PM

WMAQ by far is the biggest crap affiliate in Chicago. They screw up the NHL games, The Office, L&O, and 30 Rock on a regular basis. I will now be watching the NY feed via D* from now on.

R Johnson

04-14-07, 02:50 PM

Anybody here seen the "Nature's Colors" special on WTTW-HD?

After your mention, I watched it Friday night. Lots of great looking shots and good music. It seems a few SD shots got mixed in. It was interrupted by a plea for donations with a "DVD" of the show for $85. However the package that was displayed sure looked like an HD DVD to me. (WTTW is giving away an HD DVD player next week.) I did notice that several shots with lots of tree leaves against the sky seemed bit-starved. It would be instructive to compare the HD disc to the OTA broadcast.

Amazon carries "Nature's Colors" in BD and the combo DVD/HD DVD formats. The combo would seem to be what WTTW is offering as a premium. As it's about time to renew my membership, perhaps I'll request that disc....

UncD2000

04-14-07, 10:18 PM

I did notice that several shots with lots of tree leaves against the sky seemed bit-starved.This isn't surprising considering that WTTW is running 3 subchannels and also downconverts 11-1 to 720P. It looked much better a year or so ago when it passed through PBS programming at 1080i and had only one subchannel.

hvs10trk

04-15-07, 12:17 AM

Unfortunately, Comcast doesn't carry it yet. Any news on if, or when?
All I can say is in the works.

sebenste

04-15-07, 02:22 PM

4/15/07...1:15 PM...

Detroit/Calgary NHL game in HD on WREX-DT NBC Rockford. And in SD on WMAQ-DT NBC Chicago.

How is it that a good local station, all the way out in a cornfield, is spanking a major O&O in a top 5 market for picture quality? Isn't this coming out of New York? Since it's the only game, that should be true. So what's up, WMAQ?

The_Canuck_1989

04-15-07, 02:40 PM

Well if you can pick up the Milwaukee Channels, it seems to be fine. Maybe a little soft, but nothing too bad.

But I see what you mean with the Chicago channel. That really sucks.

Rammitinski

04-15-07, 04:01 PM

You know what really gets me is that my TV Guide on Screen always has the WMAQ-DT broadcast listings of these games as HD.

Somebody should be sued for false advertising or misrepresentation.

sebenste

04-15-07, 06:00 PM

Well if you can pick up the Milwaukee Channels, it seems to be fine. Maybe a little soft, but nothing too bad.

But I see what you mean with the Chicago channel. That really sucks.

I can get WREX-DT from Rockford easily. But for those who can't get them, or Milwaukee, or South Bend... :(

moxie1617

04-15-07, 06:13 PM

You know what really gets me is that my TV Guide on Screen always has the WMAQ-DT broadcast listings of these games as HD.

Somebody should be sued for false advertising or misrepresentation.

I'd fire the station manager. Have Trump come in and do it on network TV. :D

Rammitinski

04-15-07, 07:51 PM

I can get WREX-DT from Rockford easily. But for those who can't get them, or Milwaukee, or South Bend... :(Yeah, I guess we're kinda lucky in that we're both situated fairly well for receiving that channel.

I just feel a little guilty, because I'm not an especially huge NHL fan myself (I can kinda take it or leave it), and I will usually choose to watch a standard definition MLB game before I watch any NHL game. The strike didn't do much for my enthusiasm, either, that's for sure. Maybe when it gets down to the semi's, I'll tune in - IF it's an interesting enough matchup. If it comes down to a Cubs' game or that, it certainly won't be a difficult decision ;) :p.

Now, if I had Comcrap, and access to the Wolves' games, it'd be a whole different story. I really miss them since I switched to E* over 2 years back. They're the most consistently competitive and exciting sports team's this town's ever had (one point out of 1st with one game left - dig it!). As far as the Hawks -well, maybe if Wirtz ever decides to sell the team so that they can finally have a real chance on getting out of their perpetual state of mediocrity :rolleyes:.

sebenste

04-16-07, 12:00 AM

Yeah, I guess we're kinda lucky in that we're both situated fairly well for receiving that channel.

I just feel a little guilty, because I'm not an especially huge NHL fan myself (I can kinda take it or leave it), and I will usually choose to watch a standard definition MLB game before I watch any NHL game. The strike didn't do much for my enthusiasm, either, that's for sure. Maybe when it gets down to the semi's, I'll tune in - IF it's an interesting enough matchup. If it comes down to a Cubs' game or that, it certainly won't be a difficult decision ;) :p.

Now, if I had Comcrap, and access to the Wolves' games, it'd be a whole different story. I really miss them since I switched to E* over 2 years back. They're the most consistently competitive and exciting sports team's this town's ever had (one point out of 1st with one game left - dig it!). As far as the Hawks -well, maybe if Wirtz ever decides to sell the team so that they can finally have a real chance on getting out of their perpetual state of mediocrity :rolleyes:.

I do miss the Wolves myself, but then again, our local Comcast tech had to manually throw a switch to show them...and quite a few times, they didn't do it. So he had to come out on his night off after I called. Let's just say Comcast techies don't like me that much out here. Of course, had they thrown the switch...

Nice way of summarizing the Hawks situation. I was thinking, if new owners take over...heck, if I bought them out, I would:

1) Give a written apology to the fans
2) Put half the games on Comcast, the rest on OTA, preferably WGN/WGN Superstation for maximum exposure (all home games in HD)...and ALL of the games would be televised. Since WGN has an agreement with The CW, I'd probably have to put the games on WCIU. And then pay hvstrk a hefty union overtime salary so he can fund his 500' backyard antenna/cell phone tower project. :D
3) Keep good talent instead of letting them move on
4) Bring back Pat Foley (duh!)

OK, wayyyy of topic now. We'll enjoy the rest of the games in widescreen, or in your case, HD.

hvs10trk

04-16-07, 09:54 AM

I do miss the Wolves myself, but then again, our local Comcast tech had to manually throw a switch to show them...and quite a few times, they didn't do it. So he had to come out on his night off after I called. Let's just say Comcast techies don't like me that much out here. Of course, had they thrown the switch...

Nice way of summarizing the Hawks situation. I was thinking, if new owners take over...heck, if I bought them out, I would:

1) Give a written apology to the fans
2) Put half the games on Comcast, the rest on OTA, preferably WGN/WGN Superstation for maximum exposure (all home games in HD)...and ALL of the games would be televised. Since WGN has an agreement with The CW, I'd probably have to put the games on WCIU. And then pay hvstrk a hefty union overtime salary so he can fund his 500' backyard antenna/cell phone tower project. :D
3) Keep good talent instead of letting them move on
4) Bring back Pat Foley (duh!)

OK, wayyyy of topic now. We'll enjoy the rest of the games in widescreen, or in your case, HD.

Guess I need to start digging up the backyard now. :D