Look what I just got in my mail !! :eek: :eek: :eek:

http://www.amazon.com/gp/feature.html/ref=xs_gb_email_BestDeals_8033?ie=UTF8&docId=1000062781

If thats not a major subsidization of the format I would like to know what is.

Either that or they arnt selling and they have had to drop the price to keep the momentum going.

Anyone care to Hypothesize ???

Look what I just got in my mail !! :eek: :eek: :eek:

http://www.amazon.com/gp/feature.html/ref=xs_gb_email_BestDeals_8033?ie=UTF8&docId=1000062781

If thats not a major subsidization of the format I would like to know what is.

Either that or they arnt selling and they have had to drop the price to keep the momentum going.

Anyone care to Hypothesize ???

That's strange, really strange, between the dropped titles and this sale, it's hard for me to believe there isn't something up. Those are Fox and Sony titles. Are people sure the whole copy-protection issues aren't causing some shake-up behind the scenes?

They could just have pressed too many?

That's strange, really strange, between the dropped titles and this sale, it's hard for me to believe there isn't something up. Those are Fox and Sony titles. Are people sure the whole copy-protection issues aren't causing some shake-up behind the scenes?

They could just have pressed too many?

I suppose Toshiba giving away 5 free titles with every player sold is another sign of trouble too?

Holy S***T!!!!! Thats cheap!!!!

Don't you just love this format war. Hell some titles are cheaper than some DVD titles.....

I suppose Toshiba giving away 5 free titles with every player sold is another sign of trouble too?
Right on!!! I cannot agree more.

I suppose Toshiba giving away 5 free titles with every player sold is another sign of trouble too?

Ah, I see where your going. Those are the same 25 titles that Toshiba has been giving free-bees of since Christmas, now they are unloading them at five instead of three with a player purchase. Which could be because they're stuck with more than they thought they would have.

So yes it is possible they sold less players than they had hoped and ended up with too many leftovers, and would like to get rid of them, and get on with another promotion.

Bet you didn't expect I'd say that, but since it's no secret that stand-alone HD players of either format aren't flying off the shelves at record speed, I'm not going to pretend they are.

This however is harder to draw a simple conclusion on.

The Toshiba giveaways are not nettable via retailers. They cant be used to tip retail figures.

They want to sell players.

The PS3 freebees and this directly affects the retail figures.

They are two quite different intentions

Sweet! Just ordered 4 flicks. Thanks for the heads up!

Dang, I just ordered 19 off that list.

awesome. prices at last are going the way they should be.

everything between 15 and 19 usa dollars is what it should be!

HotFD & TFE are still over priced :)

Sony style in the UK are giving away 6 free BD with select Blu Ray equipment, laptops etc.

Son of a b!tch, I just bought some of those titles two weeks ago at their full price! :mad:

Damn, District B-13 is blu-ray? CRAP, that flick was great! I'm tempted to stock up on some Sony BDs now since it is inevitable that I'll get a PS3 at some point (I'm a gamer first and foremost) and with this promotion they can't be making any money out of the deal :P

That's the fun of having both formats: when a deal like this comes along you can jump on board regardless of which format it applies to.

Just ordered:

Stealth
The Big Hit
District B13
Entrapment
Resident Evil - Apocalypse
XXX
Broken Arrow
Vertical Limit
Planet of the Apes

A couple of these were ones I just couldn't justify paying full price for (even Amazon discounted price actually), but for these prices it's a no-brainer. Especially since the 10% HD discount also applies.

P.S. Still couldn't pull the trigger on TFE at $14.49 though... ;)

Wow thats bananas. :eek:

Maybe they wanna boost sales now that there are no HD DVD releases for a month.

Dang, I just ordered 19 off that list.


You found 19 off that list that you actually want?

Bubble (just for $hits and giggles) and Memento are the only two I'd go for.

Aren't some of these like XXX, Fifth Element, Flying Daggers and Kiss of The Dragon among the not-too-great-looking early titles?

You are correct I still have TFE and Daggers some where because the damn store wouldnt take them back when I returned the Sammy argh.... buy at your own digression.

Wow what a deal - I'm going to order a few right now.

How dare the Blu-ray studios act like there is a format war going on. Outrageous! Such blantantly pro-consumer actions, like a big sale, should not be allowed. ;)

It is VERY LIKELY that the BDA is taking this opportune period without HD DVD release to try to make the sales gap with HD DVD grow bigger than it otherwise would be. But, there is a war on kiddies. Who the heck is so naive to expect wars to be fought totally fairly?

And as dirty goes, giving consumers a really great deal is hardly a bad thing, is it?

I'm rather p!ssed that I bought a bunch of the titles now on sale just a few weeks ago. :p

Gary

Seeing how KoH, Xmen3 sales are moving, I would say that the correct price point for highdef movies is 19.97 and below. Meaning if they really want to move highdef disks, they must price them at what the market will bear. 19.97 is the price when I will blind buy Fox titles indiscriminately.

Fox and Disney should consider this in their planning sessions for how they want to price their disks.

Son of a b!tch, I just bought some of those titles two weeks ago at their full price! :mad:

Call amazon or email them and ask to be refunded the difference. They'll do it for up to 30 days after you purchase an item.

The Fox movies are at a good price now, but the last bunch that I bought came with that special $5 off deal so I'd only be getting $.30 each back so I'm not going to push for that discount.

How dare the Blu-ray studios act like there is a format war going on. Outrageous! Such blantantly pro-consumer actions, like a big sale, should not be allowed. ;)

It is VERY LIKELY that the BDA is taking this opportune period without HD DVD release to try to make the sales gap with HD DVD grow bigger than otherwise be. But, there is a war on kiddies. Who the heck is so naive to expect wars to be fought totally cleanly?

And as dirty goes, giving consumers a really great deal is hardly a bad thing, is it?

I'm rather p!ssed that I bought a bunch of the titles now on sale just a few weeks ago. :p

Gary

This would be the week to do it. No new releases from either side, so why not move some product before the big gun, Casino Royale comes out.

It has exploded the BD rankings.

Amazon rankings (http://www.hdgamedb.com/amazon/versus.aspx)

Top 10 all under 200, with an average of 103.

Gary

I don't have a Blu-ray player (eventually will when the PS3 is sold cheaper than for what it sells now) and prefer HD-DVD on principle but even I'm tempted to pick a few of these just because they're so damn cheap. Talk me out of going blue, please! :)

# of titles in Top 100

HD DVD - 0
Blu-ray - 5

Go Blue!!!

I just ordered 8 more off this list. Keep them coming at <$20 and I'll buy...

How dare the Blu-ray studios act like there is a format war going on. Outrageous! Such blantantly pro-consumer actions, like a big sale, should not be allowed. ;)

It is VERY LIKELY that the BDA is taking this opportune period without HD DVD release to try to make the sales gap with HD DVD grow bigger than it otherwise would be. But, there is a war on kiddies. Who the heck is so naive to expect wars to be fought totally fairly?

And as dirty goes, giving consumers a really great deal is hardly a bad thing, is it?

I'm rather p!ssed that I bought a bunch of the titles now on sale just a few weeks ago. :p

Gary

hehe, so true.

Seeing how KoH, Xmen3 sales are moving, I would say that the correct price point for highdef movies is 19.97 and below. Meaning if they really want to move highdef disks, they must price them at what the market will bear. 19.97 is the price when I will blind buy Fox titles indiscriminately.

This certainly seems to be true. At these prices, they are probably getting people that normally rent discs to buy them instead.

/carmi

I think I might be picking a few of these up.

Hopefully Amazon.co.uk will do a similar deal when the PS3 hits the UK/Europe in 17 days time. :)
What a boost for Blu Ray owners in NA!

Great sale, I picked up 7 more BD.

Guess there's still some benefits coming to consumers from the format war...

http://www.eproductwars.com/dvd/graphs/top1000-1-1-recent7.jpg

Here's the number in the top 1000 graph for the past 7 days. This sales has appearently moved some content.

How dare the Blu-ray studios act like there is a format war going on. Outrageous! Such blantantly pro-consumer actions, like a big sale, should not be allowed. ;)

It is VERY LIKELY that the BDA is taking this opportune period without HD DVD release to try to make the sales gap with HD DVD grow bigger than it otherwise would be. But, there is a war on kiddies. Who the heck is so naive to expect wars to be fought totally fairly?

And as dirty goes, giving consumers a really great deal is hardly a bad thing, is it?

I'm rather p!ssed that I bought a bunch of the titles now on sale just a few weeks ago. :p

Gary


Who's saying a sale is a bad thing for the consumer, though some of the not so shinning transfers are not worth it at any price IMO. I think either camp would do well to pull misfires and eyesores out of circulation, because at this stage when every disk is a little blue ambassador, it doesn't pay to have turds in your punchbowl.

Interesting.

Already having a 60% off sale on blu-ray dramas and catalog action movies.

No teen comedy titles that typically appeal to the video gamer crowd are included.

So blu-ray IS unfolding much like Sony's last video format for the videogamer crowd UMD.

http://www.eproductwars.com/dvd/graphs/top1000-1-1-recent7.jpg

Here's the number in the top 1000 graph for the past 7 days. This sales has appearently moved some content.
thedvdwars.com is wrong For Mar6, 1pm (eastern time), hdgamedb.com shows there are 48 BDs in top 1000, not 20.

http://www.hdgamedb.com/amazon/versus.aspx

Interesting.

Already having a 60% off sale on blu-ray dramas and catalog action movies.

No teen comedy titles that typically appeal to the video gamer crowd are included.

So blu-ray IS unfolding much like Sony's last video format for the videogamer crowd UMD.



When did action movies stop appealing to the gamer crowd? I got no use for them, but I thought most comic, action movies even have game counterparts?

thedvdwars.com is wrong For Mar6, 1pm (eastern time), hdgamedb.com shows there are 48 BDs in top 1000, not 20.

http://www.hdgamedb.com/amazon/versus.aspx


Interesting, thanks.

Interesting.

Already having a 60% off sale on blu-ray dramas and catalog action movies.

No teen comedy titles that typically appeal to the video gamer crowd are included.

So blu-ray IS unfolding much like Sony's last video format for the videogamer crowd UMD.

Thanks for the ancient history. All I care about is that Blu-ray is handing HD-DVD its axxx again and again and again :rolleyes:

Look what I just got in my mail !! :eek: :eek: :eek:

http://www.amazon.com/gp/feature.html/ref=xs_gb_email_BestDeals_8033?ie=UTF8&docId=1000062781

If thats not a major subsidization of the format I would like to know what is.

Either that or they arnt selling and they have had to drop the price to keep the momentum going.

Anyone care to Hypothesize ???

In the early days of DVD (not the earliest, this occurred a few months after DVD was officially released), Amazon began to offer 50% off on about 1/2 the titles. I think Amazon did it back then to fend off any competition considering entering the market, as the market was reaching a critical mass. A year or two after that they went back to their standard 30% discount (around the first time that Amazon actually starting making a profit after several years).

When did action movies stop appealing to the gamer crowd? I got no use for them, but I thought most comic, action movies even have game counterparts?

I love gaming and I enjoy quite a lot of these types of movies or am interested in seeing some of these again. Any stereotypes on gamers and types of movies is just silly as gamers come in tons of varietys of likes just as movie watchers do.

50 First Dates
A Knight's Tale
Alien vs. Predator
Behind Enemy Lines
Black Hawk Down
Broken Arrow
Bubble
Chain Reaction
Courage under Fire
District B13
Enron - The Smartest Guys in the Room
Entrapment
Fantastic Four
Flight of the Phoenix
HDNet World Report - Shuttle Discovery's Historic Mission
Hitch
House of Flying Daggers
Ice Age: The Meltdown
Into the Blue
Kingdom of Heaven
Kiss of the Dragon
Kung Fu Hustle
Little Man
Memento
Men of Honor
One Last Thing...
Phone Booth
Planet of the Apes
Resident Evil Apocalypse
Rising Sun
S.W.A.T.
Speed
Stealth
Tears of the Sun
The Architect
The Big Hit
The Fifth Element
The Marine
The Omen
The Sentinel
The War Within
The World's Fastest Indian
Transporter
Transporter 2
X-Men 3: The Last Stand
XXX

When did action movies stop appealing to the gamer crowd? I got no use for them, but I thought most comic, action movies even have game counterparts?

That's what the movie studios originally thought on UMD too.

But if a gamer wants ACTION, he'll play a videogame.

http://www.mobilemag.com/content/100/337/C6547/

From Feb 06'

Sony PSP UMD movie sales not so hot

According to Video Business Online, UMD movie sales are well below expectations, and as a result, three top movie distributors – Sony Pictures Home Entertainment, Paramount Home Entertainment, and Warner Home Video – are doing some huge cutbacks.

Average UMD sales are in the 50,000 copy range, with top titles – like Napoleon Dynamite – selling over 100,000 copies. Interestingly, comedies are faring much better than other genres. The UMD is dying, per se, thanks largely to those DVD/UMD combo packs we’re starting to see in stores. By spending an extra buck or two, you get a UMD version in addition to the DVD, but I’m starting to think that the UMD’s future will mirror that of the minidisk.

Thanks for the ancient history. All I care about is that Blu-ray is handing HD-DVD its axxx again and again and again :rolleyes:

Selling your own stuff at a loss is handing someone else there a$$? If I put 1500 of my DVDs on Amazon for a $1 each and they sold in two days would I just have handed BD their a$$?

Selling your own stuff at a loss is handing someone else there a$$? If I put 1500 of my DVDs on Amazon for a $1 each and they sold in two days would I just have handed BD their a$$?

How exactly are they selling for a loss as these are all old titles? Bitter, man, biiiittterr.... :p

I think HD-DVD supporters better get on the phones and ask Toshiba to give away 20 FREE HD-DVD titles with their player (instead of the FIVE FREE titles) cause HD-DVD sure ain't selling much above THAT price point.

Thanks for the ancient history. All I care about is that Blu-ray is handing HD-DVD its axxx again and again and again :rolleyes:

Having a DRASTIC price reduction on movie titles that don't appeal to the gamer crowd just a few months after the release of the PS3 doesn't bode well for blu-ray as a movie format.

Say goodbye to girlfriends being able to watch movies with Julia Roberts and Denzel Washington in HD on that format.

And why Fox canceled all those titles is crystal clear now. Don't be expecting "Tristan and Isolde" either.

How exactly are they selling for a loss as these are all old titles? Bitter, man, biiiittterr.... :p

I think HD-DVD supporters better get on the phones and ask Toshiba to give away 20 FREE HD-DVD titles with their player (instead of the FIVE FREE titles) cause HD-DVD sure ain't selling much above THAT price point.

Planet of The Apes has been out for three weeks.

Selling your own stuff at a loss is handing someone else there a$$? If I put 1500 of my DVDs on Amazon for a $1 each and they sold in two days would I just have handed BD their a$$?

Do you have any proof that it is the individual studios (Sony, Fox, Magnolia) that are offering the 50% off deal, or is it Amazon itself???

And why Fox canceled all those titles is crystal clear now. Don't be expecting "Tristan and Isolde" either.

Really? So why did fox POSTPONE some of their releases and not others?

http://bluray.highdefdigest.com/releasedates.html

Having a DRASTIC price reduction on movie titles that don't appeal to the gamer crowd just a few months after the release of the PS3 doesn't bode well for blu-ray as a movie format. Then I'm guessing offering 3 free movies, then 5, bodes even worse for HD DVD, since they feel the need to give away any of their movies instead of cut prices on 20 or so.
Say goodbye to girlfriends being able to watch movies with Julia Roberts and Denzel Washington in HD on that format.

And why Fox canceled all those titles is crystal clear now. Don't be expecting "Tristan and Isolde" either.Even if I choose to discount your fairly misogynistic appraisal of women's taste in movies, I'm guessing upcoming Blu-ray exclusive titles like "The Holiday", "Volver", "The Queen", "Dirty Dancing", and "Edward Scissorhands" are going to fit in better as "girlfriend" movies than all but one or two of the upcoming HD DVD exclusives.

Really? So why did fox POSTPONE some of their releases and not others?

http://bluray.highdefdigest.com/releasedates.html

You will most likely get "Dodgeball". That will sell well with the gamer crowd.

Fox has cold feet about releasing the Depp movie "From Hell" though, that was delayed yet again yesterday, after a release date of March 13 was given. No new date given.

But look at those titles that are "postponed" It's very weighted with heavy dramas... Just how many gamers are going to go for "Marie Antoinette"?

Fox has cold feet about releasing the Depp movie "From Hell" though, that was delayed yet again yesterday, after a release date of March 13 was given. No new date given.

But look at those titles that are "postponed" It's very weighted with heavy dramas... Just how many gamers are going to go for "Marie Antoinette"?

Let's face it, none of us here have any idea why Fox postponed those selected titles. It could be for marketing reasons, or for technical probelms, or for any number of reasons. In the end, it won't change the fact that HD-DVD is dropping the ball BIG TIME in the face of very strong sales of Blu-ray titles.

Let's face it, none of us here have any idea why Fox postponed those selected titles. It could be for marketing reasons, or for technical probelms, or for any number of reasons. In the end, it won't change the fact that HD-DVD is dropping the ball BIG TIME in the face of very strong sales of Blu-ray titles.


Oh spare us the rhetoric.

When BD does something questionable it's never a refection on the health of the format; according to BD fans anyway.

If HD DVD had a similar sale you'd be laughing about what an act of "desperation" you thought it was.

But look at those titles that are "postponed" It's very weighted with heavy dramas... Just how many gamers are going to go for "Marie Antoinette"?Yet another example of your selective memory. Here's the list of delayed Fox/MGM titles:

Commando (Action)
Dances with Wolves (Drama)
Dodgeball (Comedy)
Ice Age (Kids/Animation)
The Thomas Crown Affair (1999) (Drama)
Dude, Where's My Car? (Comedy)
The Fly (1986) (Horror)
Hannibal (Horror)
The Silence of the Lambs (Horror)
Tristan & Isolde (Drama)
Turistas (Horror)

You're telling me that list is weighted with heavy dramas? 'Cause I'd say BS.

When BD does something questionable it's never a refection on the health of the format; according to BD fans anyway.

Really? How is a discount promo (at healthy price points, mind you) "questionable"?

Yet another example of your selective memory. Here's the list of delayed Fox/MGM titles:

Commando (Action)
Dances with Wolves (Drama)
Dodgeball (Comedy)
Ice Age (Kids/Animation)
The Thomas Crown Affair (1999) (Drama)
Dude, Where's My Car? (Comedy)
The Fly (1986) (Horror)
Hannibal (Horror)
The Silence of the Lambs (Horror)
Tristan & Isolde (Drama)
Turistas (Horror)

You're telling me that list is weighted with heavy dramas? 'Cause I'd say BS.

Turistas is a horror movie? Ask anyone about a title named like that and they would guess "Drama". Most likely with Meryl Streep, Kathy Bates, and Bette Midler starring in it. :p

But horror movies didn't sell well on the PSP either. Gamers want their GAMES to scare them.

That's why teen comedies did relatively well on the PSP, about the only thing a video game couldn't do better than a movie to its purchaser was deliver cheap laughs.

How come DVD Empire or DeepDiscountDVD don't have similar sales on BD? Or will they in order to react to Amazon's action?

http://www.eproductwars.com/dvd/graphs/top1000-1-1-recent7.jpg

Here's the number in the top 1000 graph for the past 7 days. This sales has appearently moved some content.

Right. So to say "No wonder Bluray are gaining/past HD DVD" just because of this sale is a stretch, to put it mildly. 2:1 for the year so far, gap started widening even more when the sale started. Although I would expect it to be a blip. It is a sale... But hopefully Fox will realize something about price vs. volume.. (As if they didn't know...)

Fifth Element is on the list? Does it come with a Free Replacement voucher? :rolleyes:

Do you have any proof that it is the individual studios (Sony, Fox, Magnolia) that are offering the 50% off deal, or is it Amazon itself???

I assume there is some incentive being offered. But, you're right, there is no proof of that.

Remember, this is 50% (-> 55%) off list. Amazon normally offers 30% (-> 37%) off. The true extra savings are 18% of list.

Gary

Right. So to say "No wonder Bluray are gaining/past HD DVD" just because of this sale is a stretch, to put it mildly. 2:1 for the year so far, gap started widening even more when the sale started. Although I would expect it to be a blip. It is a sale... But hopefully Fox will realize something about price vs. volume.. (As if they didn't know...)

Fifth Element is on the list? Does it come with a Free Replacement voucher? :rolleyes:

Yeah, the sale will have a little effect, but I bet it's not that substantial. I bet less than 3% of the BD disc sold are sold through Amazon.

BD owns 67% of the market now, and it will go up a little because of this sale. But far more of the increase will be due to the strength of their new releases and normal growth. I don't think an Amazon sale by itself is going to have that big of an impact on the overall format numbers.

If HD DVD had a similar sale you'd be laughing about what an act of "desperation" you thought it was.Dude, it is a sale. Calm down. Same thing will happen on the HD DVD. No drama. It is just a sale.

Oh spare us the rhetoric.

When BD does something questionable it's never a refection on the health of the format; according to BD fans anyway.

If HD DVD had a similar sale you'd be laughing about what an act of "desperation" you thought it was.

You're nearly as bad as Snickering Hound. It's silly to think that Fox had become weary of BD because they delayed their titles. Any level headed, non HD DVD fanatic would assume that it's due to some production issue. The overall format is doing great compared to what it was last summer. They have no reason to have cold feet now.

Let's take this week as an example. There is only one new release on Blu-ray or HD DVD and that's a Destiny's Child Concert disc on Blu-ray. HD DVD has no new titles to be released this week or or until March 27th.

What's the reason for this BD 50% off sale? To move product during Blu-ray's quietest period in months. Another reason is to pad their lead over HD DVD and sell more discs, therefore making money. Take advantage of the HD DVD consortium and stick it to them where it hurts, content sales.

Should HD DVD have a similar deal going on right now? God yes. Through some remarkably stupid marketing decision there will be no new HD DVD releases for three straight weeks. Give people a reason to remember that you exist and sell those discs that sitting on shelves right now. It feels a void and you can hopefully play catch up with Blu-ray.

I'm guessing some of the newcomers and neutralers (did I just invent a new word?) are going to be able to give themselves a nice big collection for a reasonable cost with this.

Currently, 12 BD movies are now in the top 100 DVDs on Amazon. This is moving some units for sure.

Wow, there are a good 4 or 5 Fox titles there that I want but wasn't willing to pay $30+ for. Definitely going to be adding at least 4 to my BD list!

Look what I just got in my mail !! :eek: :eek: :eek:

http://www.amazon.com/gp/feature.html/ref=xs_gb_email_BestDeals_8033?ie=UTF8&docId=1000062781

If thats not a major subsidization of the format I would like to know what is.

Either that or they arnt selling and they have had to drop the price to keep the momentum going.

Anyone care to Hypothesize ???

Uh, they've been outselling HD-DVD since late January on Amazon. They didn't have to drop the price at all. A lot of the price drop was on older BD releases and just look at the demand at a lower price point.

Wow, there are a good 4 or 5 Fox titles there that I want but wasn't willing to pay $30+ for. Definitely going to be adding at least 4 to my BD list!

As others have said, perhaps Fox will learn something about price points from all this.

Gary

Planet of The Apes has been out for three weeks.

The World's Fastest Indian has been out for how long on HD DVD, and is discounted 50% already!!!?? MUST BE PANIC IN THE HD DVD CAMP, FOR SURE!!!! THEY'RE DUMPING ALL THEIR STOCK!!! ;)

Or, it is just a sale...

Having a DRASTIC price reduction on movie titles that don't appeal to the gamer crowd just a few months after the release of the PS3 doesn't bode well for blu-ray as a movie format.

Say goodbye to girlfriends being able to watch movies with Julia Roberts and Denzel Washington in HD on that format.

And why Fox canceled all those titles is crystal clear now. Don't be expecting "Tristan and Isolde" either.

They didn't cancel them they are pushed back. Really, is the HD-DVD crowd so desperate they will try to disparage anything good? This sale is the perfect move for Blu-ray, enjoy your month with no new movies.

I'm sure XXX, Stealth, etc, all action titles don't appeal to gamers. Yeah TF right, that is the exact stereotype of a gamer, a male 15-29 years old who likes to see sh** get blown up. Are you freaking kidding me?

This seems like interesting timing to me. Right when there aren't any new titles for either format, "Casino Royale" is coming next week, and the "Motorstorm" game came out today (although that is probably a small factor). I could see this pushing some people off the fence to buy a PS3.

After I get my order from this sale I may have more BDs than HD DVDs. I had been waiting on "Ice Age 2" and "AVP: Alien vs Predator" as I wasn't willing to pay the regular prices.

As far as subsidization, I think the evidence is strong that Toshiba subsidized the HD-A1 (at least in the US where prices were lower than some other places) to help their format and here we see a sale like this on software on the Blu-ray side. One difference is that the incremental cost of making another copy of a movie on disc can be pretty lower even compared to these sales prices. Fox may end up making more money because of the sale than they would have just keeping their regular prices because of that. They need to worry about people expecting sales and waiting for them, but having a higher regular price and then sales every once in a while can be a good way to differentiate those with higher demand from those with lower demand and make more money in the long run. That way many people who will pay the extra to get a title the release week will do that, but they can still get money from those who won't pay that higher price, but are willing to pay a lower price after waiting.

And HD DVD is welcome to have a similar sale.

BTW: It looks like "The World's Fastest Indian" is the same price ($14.99) on both formats right now.

--Darin

Wow, there are a good 4 or 5 Fox titles there that I want but wasn't willing to pay $30+ for. Definitely going to be adding at least 4 to my BD list!I could only come up with 2 movies that I would want from there ($15 ones). There were a couple more I would like but I won't pay $20 for them.

It's all academic for me anyway since I can't afford a blu-ray player. :p

Wow, man those are some good prices... err, well, good for Blu-ray anyways... Some of the $15 titles seem like a really good deal.

This seems like interesting timing to me. Right when there aren't any new titles for either format, "Casino Royale" is coming next week, and the "Motorstorm" game came out today (although that is probably a small factor). I could see this pushing some people off the fence to buy a PS3.

After I get my order from this sale I may have more BDs than HD DVDs. I had been waiting on "Ice Age 2" and "AVP: Alien vs Predator" as I wasn't willing to pay the regular prices.

As far as subsidization, I think the evidence is strong that Toshiba subsidized the HD-A1 (at least in the US where prices were lower than some other places) to help their format and here we see a sale like this on software on the Blu-ray side. One difference is that the incremental cost of making another copy of a movie on disc can be pretty lower even compared to these sales prices. Fox may end up making more money because of the sale than they would have just keeping their regular prices because of that. They need to worry about people expecting sales and waiting for them, but having a higher regular price and then sales every once in a while can be a good way to differentiate those with higher demand from those with lower demand and make more money in the long run. That way many people who will pay the extra to get a title the release week will do that, but they can still get money from those who won't pay that higher price, but are willing to pay a lower price after waiting.

And HD DVD is welcome to have a similar sale.

BTW: It looks like "The World's Fastest Indian" is the same price ($14.99) on both formats right now.

--Darin


Hopefully this sale will teach the studios that they are selling these things way to high. But in terms of the format war, I don't think extra sales due to special discounts will be that meaningful. That is in the studios control, after all, and they could do that for which ever format they support. It doesn't saying anything about the format itself.

But what does this tell us about the notion that early adopters are price insensitive? The price, more than a format war, is what is holding these things back, imo. Lower your prices, and sales will go up.

Dude, it is a sale. Calm down. Same thing will happen on the HD DVD. No drama. It is just a sale.


I do think it's stock reduction a sale, I'm just pointing out to those who feel the need to respond with comments that say this is HD DVD getting it's "a$$ handed to them"
That if the shoe were on the other foot they would be accusing HD DVD of making a desperate price cutting measure.

Anyone know when this sale is over?

I'm really thinking of getting the PS3 with my tax return and I'd like to get some movies as well to enjoy on the thing.

I think they still need to move the decimal one to the left to move any units of "Little Man".

I do think it's stock reduction a sale, I'm just pointing out to those who feel the need to respond with comments that say this is HD DVD getting it's "a$$ handed to them"
That if the shoe were on the other foot they would be accusing HD DVD of making a desperate price cutting measure.

Well it's a different situation isn't it. Blu-ray has been enjoying a 2 to 1 current sales lead for more than a month before this sale. A sale is not likely a sign of weakness.

But if you are trailing 2 to 1 and launch a "free" givaway (increase it from 3 to 5). I think that is a much more telling sign of trying to get back to the front by giving it away. A scorched earth policy which has been Toshibas mantra from the start.

I do think it's stock reduction a sale, I'm just pointing out to those who feel the need to respond with comments that say this is HD DVD getting it's "a$$ handed to them"
That if the shoe were on the other foot they would be accusing HD DVD of making a desperate price cutting measure.

Go ahead and identify me as one of those people that would accuse HD DVD of that. Three dead weeks, no new releases in sight, of course HD DVD would need this sale to jump start things. On the other side of the spectrum the BDA is fortifying their lead and trying to get a sales boost before things start rolling again next week with the release of Casino Royale.

I don't see how this is so hard to understand.

But what does this tell us about the notion that early adopters are price insensitive? The price, more than a format war, is what is holding these things back, imo. Lower your prices, and sales will go up.I think I qualify as an early adopter and was even willing to pay $40 or so for D-Theater titles like "I-Robot" (and happy to do it at the time). But now I have this magic mark of $19.99 or under where I don't think a lot about it and just buy the title in a lot of cases. Then up to about $24.99 I think about it longer, but will get bigger titles. Above that I have to really like something a lot or be in the right mood to buy. I get the feeling that a lot of others share the magic <$20 and >$20 break. If I'm right, getting under $20 street would help the studios sell quite a few more.

--Darin

Well it's a different situation isn't it. Blu-ray has been enjoying a 2 to 1 current sales lead for more than a month before this sale. A sale is not likely a sign of weakness.

But if you are trailing 2 to 1 and launch a "free" givaway (increase it from 3 to 5). I think that is a much more telling sign of trying to get back to the front by giving it away. A scorched earth policy which has been Toshibas mantra from the start.

Nicely put. ;)

Its a SALE! ! !

If you like those titles, head over to Amazon and buy them before they sold out. So stop trolling! Stay on topic!

When HD DVD have their own sale we will do the same thing. Buy as much as we can at reduced price.

They didn't cancel them they are pushed back. Really, is the HD-DVD crowd so desperate they will try to disparage anything good? This sale is the perfect move for Blu-ray, enjoy your month with no new movies.

I'm sure XXX, Stealth, etc, all action titles don't appeal to gamers. Yeah TF right, that is the exact stereotype of a gamer, a male 15-29 years old who likes to see sh** get blown up. Are you freaking kidding me?

Of course they like to see stuff blown up. They like to be scared too.

But that's what their games are for. And the games do it better for them than the movies. The studios got burned on that bad with the UMD.

The teen comedies were the top selling movie titles on UMD specifically because the only way to get cheap laughs on the PSP was to buy movies. And then the top selling comedy title was "Napoleon Dynamite" at a mere 100,000 copies. Other titles didn't do nearly as well.

And HD DVD is welcome to have a similar sale.


--Darin

Yes, yes please.

i hope they start to offer more movies...i was hoping for Crank, if you haven't seen it on BD it's a must...definatly shows off the technology

Of course they like to see stuff blown up. They like to be scared too.

But that's what their games are for. And the games do it better for them than the movies. The studios got burned on that bad with the UMD.

The teen comedies were the top selling movie titles on UMD specifically because the only way to get cheap laughs on the PSP was to buy movies. And then the top selling comedy title was "Napoleon Dynamite" at a mere 100,000 copies. Other titles didn't do nearly as well.So, can you explain the rankings of Blu-ray titles and how it might indicate that it is like the UMD situation? For instance, why would "The Departed" be up so high? Or "The Prestige"?

I think the size of the screen alone could account for a skewing toward comedies on UMD. I would be much more likely to watch something like that on the small PSP screen and save a big spectacular movie for playing on my main home display than vis versa, and I bet a lot of other people feel the same way. That isn't likely to create the same problem for the PS3 as the PSP.

--Darin

Anyone know when the sale is ending???

Anyone know when the sale is ending???

the rumor is that it lasts a week....

the rumor is that it lasts a week....

A week from today?

Oh, and are they still doing the 10% standard discount on top of that 50% off? How does one do that on Amazon? Or is the 10% automatically added on your purchase?

I think I will definitely get a PS3 this week....

I think I qualify as an early adopter and was even willing to pay $40 or so for D-Theater titles like "I-Robot" (and happy to do it at the time). But now I have this magic mark of $19.99 or under where I don't think a lot about it and just buy the title in a lot of cases. Then up to about $24.99 I think about it longer, but will get bigger titles. Above that I have to really like something a lot or be in the right mood to buy. I get the feeling that a lot of others share the magic <$20 and >$20 break. If I'm right, getting under $20 street would help the studios sell quite a few more.I'm pretty much the same. I'll pay $27 for Casino Royale and other first rate new releases, but would be more comfortable if they were $24.99. :) Less than $20, and my tolerance of movie quality needed drops significantly to initiate a buy. Heck, even ordered the Enron movie. Sure, that's one that's going to show off my system setup... ;)

I think I would spend more than twice the money if the disc were half the price.

As others have said, perhaps Fox will learn something about price points from all this.


I hope so! I would add 3 or 4 more HD DVD's on my list if they weren't combos (in which case it's not only a price issue, but a flipper one). :mad:

Of course they like to see stuff blown up. They like to be scared too.

But that's what their games are for. And the games do it better for them than the movies. The studios got burned on that bad with the UMD.

The teen comedies were the top selling movie titles on UMD specifically because the only way to get cheap laughs on the PSP was to buy movies. And then the top selling comedy title was "Napoleon Dynamite" at a mere 100,000 copies. Other titles didn't do nearly as well.

UMD was never destined to be a popular movies format. It's a STRICTLY format for the PSP. Seriously, the rest of the world couldn't care less how the UMD did (or how portable movies did, as a matter of fact), Sony fan that don't owned a PSP included. Did the UMD even compete with anything ?

So movies fail to sell on a gaming devices with 4 inches screen, what's your point ?

This seems like interesting timing to me. Right when there aren't any new titles for either format, "Casino Royale" is coming next week, and the "Motorstorm" game came out today (although that is probably a small factor). I could see this pushing some people off the fence to buy a PS3.


With so many pushing the UMD-effect for the PS/3, a nice kick in the arse reminder that the PS/3 is good for movies too is probably just the thing needed if the games are going to start taking up more of the PS/3 owners' concentration. :)

This sale seems like such a good idea, and well timed, that you'd think it must have been planned. But, who knows?

Gary

Go ahead and identify me as one of those people that would accuse HD DVD of that. Three dead weeks, no new releases in sight, of course HD DVD would need this sale to jump start things. On the other side of the spectrum the BDA is fortifying their lead and trying to get a sales boost before things start rolling again next week with the release of Casino Royale.

I don't see how this is so hard to understand.

Yes, you've just stated a speculative opinion, not a fact. Unless you've been hanging out in the air ducts of SONY and FOX, you don't really know the motivation behind the timing of any of this. I'm not saying your wrong, but you don't really know.

Everyone is dumping stock right now, and there are a butload of great SD sales too (40% off Criterion at DDD), but these decisions are usually studio by studio, not format by format.

Oh, and are they still doing the 10% standard discount on top of that 50% off? How does one do that on Amazon? Or is the 10% automatically added on your purchase?

I think I will definitely get a PS3 this week....

I tried the discount promo code that they listed in one of the blu-ray threads and it didn't work...expired probably...

UMD was never destined to be a popular movies format. It's a STRICTLY format for the PSP. Seriously, the rest of the world couldn't care less how the UMD did (or how portable movies did, as a matter of fact), Sony fan that don't owned a PSP included. Did the UMD even compete with anything ?

So movies fail to sell on a gaming devices with 4 inches screen, what's your point ?

:D

People will grasp at anything when their format is drowning....

Doggone it. Kosty and I recommended that they do this: Win the war by lowering disk prices. Does Blu-ray read AVS Forum posts? Do we get a percentage? ;)

And HD DVD's response in the disk price war ? :)

Of course they like to see stuff blown up. They like to be scared too.

But that's what their games are for. And the games do it better for them than the movies. The studios got burned on that bad with the UMD.

The teen comedies were the top selling movie titles on UMD specifically because the only way to get cheap laughs on the PSP was to buy movies. And then the top selling comedy title was "Napoleon Dynamite" at a mere 100,000 copies. Other titles didn't do nearly as well.

I wish I could figure out why you insist on comparing UMD (an overpriced disk that can only be watched on a tiny screen) to Blu-ray movies that can be watched on a large-screen. :rolleyes:

Note: This 50% off deal expires March 27th.

If you click on the Goldbox thing in the upper right corner, you'll see an RSS feed link on the resulting page. The expiration date was in the RSS feed description. There's no other way to see when the deal expires as far as I could tell, so I thought folks might be interested in how long it was going to last. =)

Okay I'll throw my fuel to the fire. Let's look at some of the BR propaganda that is being perpetrated on the public.

1. Sales are great!

Keep in mind that the big software boost in Jan was due to PS3 launch and the included gift certificates. When titles are free or close to free, OBVIOUSLY sales are going to spike. However they did level off. Here's some references.

From Neowin

"Blu-ray movie sales have surpassed HD DVD movies sales in the USA thanks to Sony bundling some PlayStation 3 game machines with a BD movie and a voucher for another Blu-ray disc. Several hundred of thousands of Blu-ray movies were purchased for free during the PS3 launch."

Here is a quite excellent article:

From Foxnews

"I think it's safe to say that the gift certificate is the reason for the sudden spike in Blu-ray disc sales"

"This seems to be consistent with the curves as indicated by the graphs: a dramatic run-up in Blu-ray sales in January, followed by a flattening of the curve in late January."


2. But, but! So what Toshiba is giving FIVE titles away with players etc.

Actually those Nielsen numbers do NOT include pack-ins. So titles redeemed for free or super cheap with PS3 bundled gift certificates would be included in the Nielsen numbers, and the pack-in titles for PS3 and HD-DVD both would not. So this favors Sony, and helps inflate the sales figure beyond what would be organic demand for the titles with no gift certificate and no console launch.

3. Yeah? Well so what, obviously even after Jan/Feb we are now seeing a spike in BR software sales!

Yes, radical discounts will do that. Sony understands that because of dismal sales for standalone players (25,000 total lifetime as of end 2006, half of what the Xbox 360 HD-DVD drive sold in just December alone), documented stagnating PS3 sales (94% of the total BR player base, and already getting outsold by X360 and Wii only months after its expensive launch), and metrics demonstrating that in the standalone player market, HD-DVD units are selling at 4 and 5 to one ratios over Blu-ray players, Sony has one thing to leverage - software sales.

Sony understands very well the battle of perception. Hence the assault of PR soon after CES and its bad news - Porn industry jumps into the HD-DVD camp; Blu-ray stalwart LG breaks ranks and makes a combo player; no fewer than 4 Chinese companies will be bringing low-cost HD-DVD players to the US in 2007; Japanese high-end maker Onkyo will be making HD-DVD players; Xbox 360 HD-DVD drive sells nearly 4 times as many units in two months as the number of Blu-ray standalone players have sold since Blu-ray was launched; And so forth...

It's no surprise that we are now seeing them leverage software in the perception war. Thus the Nielsen numbers with no indicators how many of those titles were PS3 owners redeeming gift certificates. And they are not stupid. Knowing that the gift certificate would support only a short term bump, they are trying to pump up all of Q1 with big discounts.

And Sony has also gone to its avowed enemy, the Chinese, to try and bring out a low cost player before the end of the year. And now much to the annoyance of its partners Pioneer and so on, it is undercutting them by rolling out its own cheaper player before the end of the summer.

So do not be simplistically fooled by the Blu-ray numbers right now. It is hardware adoption that is going to drive victory in the format war. Experience has shown repeatedly that low hardware prices will drive huge numbers..and no one, including Sony, doubts that HD-DVD will get to sub-$300 and sub-$200 on hardware first. Their main advantage is software and they are trying to press that advantage right now in a war of perception.

The format war is far from over. By end of 07 we will have a lot more to judge on by that point as far as which format is winning. But there will have been X360 and HD-DVD drive price cuts, sub-$399 chinese HD-DVD players, and more Toshiba price cuts by then as well so it should be interesting.

Some other good stuff from the Fox article:

"Although the numbers seem to indicate a considerable decline on the part of HD DVD in favor of Blu-Ray, this isn't true at all: to date (Jan. 28), 53.3 percent of all next-gen DVDs have been in the HD DVD format, compared to 46.7 percent for Blu-ray.

This contrasts quite strongly with reports that the Blu-Ray format is widely outselling HD DVD.

Figures from another analyst firm, The NPD Group, which also tracks U.S. retail sales, also seem to support this: sales of hardware players (not movies) from April through December 2006 also give HD DVD a slight edge, 52 percent to 48 percent for Blu-ray."

I posted this in the Neilsen discussion thread, but felt it was pertinent as a response to PaulieP's commentary above.

A picture is worth a thousand words.

http://www.endrop.com/album/photos/qmqrnez0mfndwn2m4hnh.jpg (http://www.endrop.com/viewer.php?file=qmqrnez0mfndwn2m4hnh.jpg)

Look at the projected numbers (which I have calculated off of a combination of data from Neilsen VideoScan and the supplied total numbers from format neutral Paramount) and decide for yourself which side is winning the format war.

Skogan's analysis of the numbers:

It looks like BD has 67% of the market share, and it has been that way since we have had numbers to report. It's been pretty much within the margin of error each week. It doesn't look like the gap is opening or closing, it's resting at 2/3 - 1/3 split, regardless of increases in volume.

One could argue that the sales gap closed a bit during February, when BD had 69% of the market for the first week, and ended up at 67% for the last week. But I think those numbers are close enough that you couldn't really call it a trend. More likely, its about the same.

We have about 2 months of data to look at, and the most realistic reading of that data (in my opinion) is that the PS3 effect took BD to 67% market share, but no further. It's possible that BD won't get past 67% on the PS3 alone. A string of hit titles released in a particular month may gain it some ground, and a big sale may cause a temporary bump. But otherwise, it looks like the formats are locked in the status quo until something happens to change conditions.

Skogan's analysis of the numbers:
We have about 2 months of data to look at, and the most realistic reading of that data (in my opinion) is that the PS3 effect took BD to 67% market share, but no further. It's possible that BD won't get past 67% on the PS3 alone. A string of hit titles released in a particular month may gain it some ground, and a big sale may cause a temporary bump. But otherwise, it looks like the formats are locked in the status quo until something happens to change conditions.


1. Sales of blockbuster blu-ray titles, which starts mid-March with Casino Royale. This should cause a bump in blu-ray player sales over several months.

2. Sales of big PS3 games like Motorstorm and more in the summer, which should accelerate PS3 sales and thus widen the player lead of Blu-ray.

I think it's kind of humorous how a sale will convince people to buy crap they wouldn't buy otherwise, just because they think they're saving money. Really, Vertical Limit? Broken Arrow? Amazon should be paying me to take that off their hands.

I'm not saying that sales are a bad thing, but it's like when your wife or mom or whoever will go to the grocery store and buy something worth $20 just because she has a 50 cent off coupon. You feel so obligated to buy that you just end up wasting money.

1. Sales of blockbuster blu-ray titles, which starts mid-March with Casino Royale. This should cause a bump in blu-ray player sales over several months.

2. Sales of big PS3 games like Motorstorm and more in the summer, which should accelerate PS3 sales and thus widen the player lead of Blu-ray.Yes, and the resurgence of titles for HD DVD starting end-March will increase HD DVD sales.

ad infinitum...

We'll just have to wait and see how it all plays out.

Some other good stuff from the Fox article:

"Although the numbers seem to indicate a considerable decline on the part of HD DVD in favor of Blu-Ray, this isn't true at all: to date (Jan. 28), 53.3 percent of all next-gen DVDs have been in the HD DVD format, compared to 46.7 percent for Blu-ray.

This contrasts quite strongly with reports that the Blu-Ray format is widely outselling HD DVD.

Figures from another analyst firm, The NPD Group, which also tracks U.S. retail sales, also seem to support this: sales of hardware players (not movies) from April through December 2006 also give HD DVD a slight edge, 52 percent to 48 percent for Blu-ray."

This "Fox" article was published a month ago in PcMag and was widely discussed on the forum. The journalist simply does a terrible job:
1. He gets the Nielsen name wrong. Talk about being careful with sources. (Many people do, but this guy makes a point about doing careful analysis!)
2. He mixes up gift certificates given as presents for Christmas (and therefore redeemed in january and early february) with rebate forms on movies bundled with the PS3 (that will be redeemed within 2 months after any PS3 that comes with such rebates). And indeed, the BD sales did not start to trend down after mid-february, as he predicted, on the contrary.
3. With his argument, he implicitly puts more weight on sales from last year that on sales from this year. That's quite a strange thing to do if you know that the volume right now is much higher and that we are talking network effects here.
4. He conveniently forgets to mention that the NPD data exclude the PS3. So if the standalones are about even ....

Finally, he gives HD DVD the edge because it has more sales SI and more titles. In the month since he wrote the article that has been inverted. BD now has more sales SI and more titles. By conclusion, he should give BD the edge right now.

I think it's kind of humorous how a sale will convince people to buy crap they wouldn't buy otherwise, just because they think they're saving money. Really, Vertical Limit? Broken Arrow? Amazon should be paying me to take that off their hands.

I'm not saying that sales are a bad thing, but it's like when your wife or mom or whoever will go to the grocery store and buy something worth $20 just because she has a 50 cent off coupon. You feel so obligated to buy that you just end up wasting money.


There are a couple good films on that list, but if your impatient like myself, you have what you want. When DDD has a big sale and I start piling stuff into my cart, I usually force myself to sleep on it and put a day or too in between me a that final purchase click. I've saved a lot of money and shelf-space that way.

Though I shouldn't talk, I do have an HD DVD of House of WAX, which if you hang in there actually has a pretty boffo ending.

If HD DVD had a similar sale you'd be laughing about what an act of "desperation" you thought it was.

BR fanboys already did that. Never underestimate the foolishness of a fanboy.

Hey, at least now they can say they won the war again when the sales numbers come in. And then again, and again, and...

i was so excited about this sale. don't even have a blue ray player yet, went to amazon and started to load up of discs but alas only 3 i wanted was on sale.

not enough for me to commit to an expensive blue ray player. oh well. :(

bosng,

That's what's keeping me out. I've had $6-700 mentally set aside to buy a BD player for some time, but I just want the titles list to get longer, otherwise I will run out of movies to watch! Every list I look at, there are only about 10% of the titles that I'm really interested in watching. If I watch 2 a week, that means there would need to be 20 releases a week to keep me satisfied!

I suppose Toshiba giving away 5 free titles with every player sold is another sign of trouble too?
The difference being that the BDs count toward BD retail sales the HDDVDs don't.

The difference being that the BDs count toward BD retail sales the HDDVDs don't.
You make it sound like there isn't a realized advantage. Sure, Blu-ray ends up with more registered sales. HD DVD pushes more player sales that way. Seems fair to me.

I think this is definately a subsidy that has been offered to Amazon by the BD group. Amazon is not running this type of sale on any of their other sites, including Canada. If it was really a matter of overstocked inventory, Amazon would just transfer it around, especially with Canada.

However, NPD and Nielsen don't track Canadian sales, and their numbers are the ones making headlines. So the BD group is just paying Amazon the money they loose from the sale. Again, they are just trading $$$ for market share. What BD supporters aren't grasping is that the BD group won't pay for this in the long run. BD owners will pay for this $$$ to market share money burn. You will pay with every disc or player you buy, in the form of sustained higher prices.

I think this is definately [sic]

Nice oxymoron! :D

I think this is definately a subsidy that has been offered to Amazon by the BD group. Amazon is not running this type of sale on any of their other sites, including Canada. If it was really a matter of overstocked inventory, Amazon would just transfer it around, especially with Canada.

However, NPD and Nielsen don't track Canadian sales, and their numbers are the ones making headlines. So the BD group is just paying Amazon the money they loose from the sale. Again, they are just trading $$$ for market share. What BD supporters aren't grasping is that the BD group won't pay for this in the long run. BD owners will pay for this $$$ to market share money burn. You will pay with every disc or player you buy, in the form of sustained higher prices.

TalkStr8t already stated in the insider's thread, that this Amazon sale was not as a result of any BDA action.

I still think it is Amazon's normal practise of aggressive pricing for a new market (as occurred in the early days of DVDs where almost all pre-orders were available at a 50% discount). This allowed them to order more units, and thus were able to negotiate better lot pricing. Maybe Fox, Sony and Magnolia offer a similar tiered price structure which Amazon has taken advantage of?

The assertion by others is that this is started by Sony and Fox and Magnolia as part of the BD promotion. There's been daily bombardments of blu-ray on TV. On HD CSI:NY, you even get "Casino Royale available on Blu-Ray and DVD" with pictures of the blu-ray case in case people don't know what they look like. If anyone is wondering, yes, those ad time would cost more than the authoring and setup charges for a run of BDs.

The amazon sale is likely one aspect of that move.

Based on what is happening with amazon stock, I suspect the rate of disks bought in this sale is beyond what any of the people behind it expected. At the very least it is clear that amazon, in spite of rushing in some resupply with the top titles : BHD keeps getting more stock and the titles that started with up to 850+ disks are now down to low 2 digits or are out of stock, while others get resupplied.

Can't complain, this is a good excuse to complete the library.

I think this is definately a subsidy that has been offered to Amazon by the BD group. Amazon is not running this type of sale on any of their other sites, including Canada. If it was really a matter of overstocked inventory, Amazon would just transfer it around, especially with Canada.


There are definitely incentives being offered by the participating studios. That is the case with all such sales.


What BD supporters aren't grasping is that the BD group won't pay for this in the long run. BD owners will pay for this $$$ to market share money burn. You will pay with every disc or player you buy, in the form of sustained higher prices.


And that would harm sales, and give HD DVD an advantage.

Gary

TalkStr8t already stated in the insider's thread, that this Amazon sale was not as a result of any BDA action.

I still think it is Amazon's normal practise of aggressive pricing for a new market (as occurred in the early days of DVDs where almost all pre-orders were available at a 50% discount). This allowed them to order more units, and thus were able to negotiate better lot pricing. Maybe Fox, Sony and Magnolia offer a similar tiered price structure which Amazon has taken advantage of?

Then why is the sale not being offered in Canada, or through any other branch of Amazon globally? It is only for the US, not even all of North America. Do they limit aggressive pricing just to the US and not Canada?

TalkStr8t already stated in the insider's thread, that this Amazon sale was not as a result of any BDA action.

I still think it is Amazon's normal practise of aggressive pricing for a new market (as occurred in the early days of DVDs where almost all pre-orders were available at a 50% discount). This allowed them to order more units, and thus were able to negotiate better lot pricing. Maybe Fox, Sony and Magnolia offer a similar tiered price structure which Amazon has taken advantage of?

It's highly unlikely TalkStr8t would even be in any position to know. He barely qualifies as an insider and has often stated things contradictory to true insiders like Paidgeek.

The BDA as such would not be underwriting this sale IMO without including Disney and Lionsgate not to mention Warner and Paramount. So I think Talk is correct on this, unless there is a deal to do the same for the others in the future.

IMO, this is Sony and Fox going it alone to 1) create a lot of internet buzz, 2) boost sales figures to fulfill prophecies and do some chest pounding, 3) sell off a lot of over-priced under-featured catalog stock.

This sale absolutely shows that Fox and Sony know how to whip their minions into a frenzy. A very astute short term marketing move on their part aimed at creating buzz knowing how closely Amazons sales ranking are being watched. Discounting over-priced catalog titles at Amazon only is an effective use of advertising budget. This move pretty much erases any doubt in my mind about Amazon sales being included in Nielsen/Videoscan reports.

But to keep things in perspective HD DVD Amazon sales rankings are not tanking, they are actually holding quite steady given the lack of releases.

Time will tell if this is a good strategy, there is always some downside to such a bold move, what about....

Disney, Lionsgate and all the other BD studios, where's the love for them?

Other retailers and e-tailers whose BD sales are being canabalized, I don't think they are loving it.

So the BD group is just paying Amazon the money they loose from the sale.What evidence do you have that either the studios or Amazon are losing money from this sale, and when are you claiming they lose it? Is it your claim that they will lose money during the sale? If so, why, given that the increased volumes could easily mean that Fox and Amazon are making more money during the sale than they would have made if they didn't have the sale (with of course the risk of losing some sales later on if people start expecting sales and waiting). Do you understand how sales during defined periods are used by companies to have higher profits than without ever doing any sales?

I would be surprised if Fox wasn't selling certain discs to Amazon at less than normal (through some method) and if they weren't actually making more profit during the sale because volumes went up.

--Darin

Again, they are just trading $$$ for market share.Uh, this is pretty much what every company does in one form or another.

The BDA as such would not be underwriting this sale IMO without including Disney and Lionsgate not to mention Warner and Paramount. So I think Talk is correct on this, unless there is a deal to do the same for the others in the future.

IMO, this is Sony and Fox going it alone to 1) create a lot of internet buzz, 2) boost sales figures to fulfill prophecies and do some chest pounding, 3) sell off a lot of over-priced under-featured catalog stock.

This sale absolutely shows that Fox and Sony know how to whip their minions into a frenzy. A very astute short term marketing move on their part aimed at creating buzz knowing how closely Amazons sales ranking are being watched. Discounting over-priced catalog titles at Amazon only is an effective use of advertising budget. This move pretty much erases any doubt in my mind about Amazon sales being included in Nielsen/Videoscan reports.

But to keep things in perspective HD DVD Amazon sales rankings are not tanking, they are actually holding quite steady given the lack of releases.

Time will tell if this is a good strategy, there is always some downside to such a bold move, what about....

Disney, Lionsgate and all the other BD studios, where's the love for them?

Other retailers and e-tailers whose BD sales are being canabalized, I don't think they are loving it.

HD-DVD sales on Amazon are still off all time highs. And the only reason they are back up is because there are quite a few Universal movies available for pre-order.

What will be more interesting is what the Nielson numbers show over this period of time as no new movies will be available for pick up at Brick stores.

The only sales that are being canabalized are from other e-stores (dvd empire is an obvious example) which make a much smaller percentage of the pie. It's more likely people purchasing (regularly) at Brick Stores are less likely to purchase at Amazon.

Uh, this is pretty much what every company does in one form or another. :D

I think he just defined what the rest if the world calls "business". I guess it's bad for companies to do it now?

:D

I think he just defined what the rest if the world calls "business". I guess it's bad for companies to do it now?

Only when it hurts HD-DUD:)

isn't wnorris the guy who thought the us car industry was doing really well. might want to read anything he says for pure comedy value.

Can't complain, this is a good excuse to complete the library.

are you seriously buying the entire blu ray catalogue? :eek:

discrimination my friend, discrimination is a good thing.

No matter what the price, I just couldn't bring myself to buy Little Man

Only when it hurts HD-DUD:)

Are you like 13, or just very immature?

Are you like 13, or just very immature?
Are you asking if he is 13, or if he is like 13?
If you're asking if he is like 13, what is the range on either side of 13 that you would consider to be like 13?

I bought Fast and Furious II, based on people recommending it as a show piece of the technology. Even so, I've never been able to bring myself to watch more than the first 5 minutes.

At that point, I decided I would never again buy a movie just because it "looked good."

Then why is the sale not being offered in Canada, or through any other branch of Amazon globally? It is only for the US, not even all of North America. Do they limit aggressive pricing just to the US and not Canada?

You clearly do not live in Canada if you make this statement.

The US gets many many discounts that Canada do not get. It often cheaper to buy from the US than Canada - even after taking into account the money conversion, more expensive shipping, and 13+% sales tax.

I live in Canada and have bought several titles from Amazon.com
I've also bought numerous other media from other Amazon sites, like SACD's from Amazon.co.uk

I find Amazon.ca is one of the worst of their branches.

I used to place orders on amazon.ca, only to see the order languish past the street date with a further 4-6 week delay. After that, I realize the amazon.com is the only place to order movies. Besides I do have a special discount with amazon.com.

Just for fun, I grabbed the best-selling lists and took out all the titles on sale.

What do we have?

Casino Royale 8
Departed 58
Prestige 107
Happy Feet 164
Rocky Balboa 182
POTC 428
Holiday 542
Layer Cake 604
Crank 605
Nine Inch Nails 679

Average BD 338
Avergage HD DVD 700

You clearly do not live in Canada if you make this statement.

The US gets many many discounts that Canada do not get. It often cheaper to buy from the US than Canada - even after taking into account the money conversion, more expensive shipping, and 13+% sales tax.

Taking advantage of this deal, I placed two seperate orders, on Mar. 9th (one for titles listed as in stock, one for back orders). The first package shipped on Mar.11 (Sunday) and was received today (Mar.14), containing 4 Blu-ray discs. No tax, no duty, no brokerage. My cost was $103.89, after exchange. By comparison, the same tiles would have cost me >$140 at FS (after tax). Granted this was a sale, but many of Amazon's regular prices are substancially cheaper than local, too.

Other than the odd title (T2 on Blu-ray, at Futureshop for $19.99), none of the major Canadian retailers (FS, BB or Walmart) can compare to Amazon prices...

Well, I pulled the trigger (currently own an HD DVD player) this weekend and bought a BR player. I bought 6 titles from this awesome sale and another 4 titles (Casino, Rocky Balboa, Pursuit of Happiness, and The Holiday for my wife).

Pretty stoked about watching Casino Royale Monday night when my player arrives (scheduled for delivery on Monday).