Thanks to Amazon's sale, Blu-ray now has 5 discs in their top 100, and 20 in the top 1,000. New records for both. Wow. Hope this keeps up for a bit. :-)

Blu-ray's top 5 are all doing better than HD DVD's top seller.

/carmi

I smell some excuses coming from the HD-DVD supporters :rolleyes:

I smell some excuses coming from the HD-DVD supporters :rolleyes:
Waaaaaa, your sale is to good.... Waaaa Sony is subsidizing this... Waaaaa just wait until Toshiba releases their $50 HD-DVD player next year..... Waaaa these numbers mean nothing.... Waaaaaaaaaa

:D

You said it, not... us! :)

Waaaaaa, your sale is to good.... Waaaa Sony is subsidizing this... Waaaaa just wait until Toshiba releases their $50 HD-DVD player next year..... Waaaa these numbers mean nothing.... Waaaaaaaaaa

:D
I smell some excuses coming from the HD-DVD supporters :rolleyes:

Is this really necessary? These post are meant to do nothing but make HD DVD supporters mad, right? You can't just be happy without being inflammatory?

Fair enough, 2 more to the ignore list.

Sales are good. This one can't be spun.

They cant post when they're out at best buy cursing the red rack and looking sheepishly at the BD endcap.

Man....my jaw dropped when I saw this....for the record....its at 6 in the top 100....man oh man I am so glad I sold my HD DVDs and returned the A2....I knew I saw the end coming. Just had a gut felling. This is great.

Wow 6 in the top 100!!
Craziness!

It is because of all those PS3 fanboys ;)

It is because of all those PS3 fanboys ;)

PS3 owners don't buy movies....except for me :rolleyes:

thedvdwars.com data seems wrong again, hdgamedb has district B13 and ice age that thedvdwars.com doesn't.

hdgamedb average ranking for top 10 is 80 for 1pm 2007.03.06 which is also lower than thedvdwars average ranking of 133.

Cracking 100 for the top 10 is an important milestone and a big psychological boost.

This should prove that there's a lot of pent up demand for the highdef titles, they were just priced too high.

Would be nice if they ALL sell their disks for <20 from now on would it? :)

edit : As per hdgamedb. 48 BD titles are in the top 1000.

http://www.hdgamedb.com/amazon/versus.aspx

Top 50 Blu-ray - 480
Top 10 HD DVD - 736

Top 50 Blu-ray - 480
Top 10 HD DVD - 736

Now THAT is a spanking ;)

48 in the top 1000!

Actually, all of the top 10 BDs are in the top 100.

If you go to amazon.com and go down the top sellers ->BD list, Fantastic 4 is #10 in that list, and it is ranked #94. on 1:35 eastern march 6th.

48 in the top 1000!

Oh yes!

The top 100.

HD DVD - 6,060
Blu-ray - 1,764

Actually, all of the top 10 BDs are in the top 100.

If you go to amazon.com and go down the top sellers ->BD list, Fantastic 4 is #10 in that list, and it is ranked #94. on 1:35 eastern march 6th.

Either amazon does NOT sell a lot of DVD totals, or we are seeing a heck of a large pent up demand for Blu-ray titles at a slightly lower price point.

Nope there are 9 titles in the Top 100.
53 Titles in the top 1,000.
I don't doubt that #10 (Transporter 2 - 103) will get there too as well.

If you go straight to amazon.com, you'll find that 2007.03.06 1:43pm eastern time, 54 BD movies are ranked in top 1000. #54 is One Last Thing which came in at 980.

I have no idea what this movie is about, but it's 14.99 and it has this picture. I will not comment beyond that. I'm sure it has a terrible rottentomatoes score.

http://ec1.images-amazon.com/images/P/B000GFRIIQ.01._AA240_SCLZZZZZZZ_.jpg

ONe is being skipped then on HDGame, because One Last Thing is the 53rd title there in the top 1000.

Nope there are 9 titles in the Top 100.
53 Titles in the top 1,000.
I don't doubt that #10 (Transporter 2 - 103) will get there too as well.


In amazon.com, Fantastic 4 is in #10 in the top sellers list for bD, and it is currently ranked # 94.

http://ec2.images-amazon.com/images/P/B000ICLRIO.01._AA240_SCLZZZZZZZ_.jpg

ONe is being skipped then on HDGame, because One Last Thing is the 53rd title there in the top 1000.

on amazon.com here's the list :

51. Hitch
52. Enron
53. Phone Booth
52. One Last Thing (which is #980 on the dvd list).

hdgamedb also missed Resident Evil : Apocalypse, which is ranked #7 on the BD list, and #78 on the DVD list.

The rankings are :
1. CR.
2. BHD
3. KoH
4. XM3
5. The Departed.
6. District B13
7. RE : A
8. Transporter
9. Ice Age2
10. F4
11. Transporter 2. (ranked 102).

----

RE:A was always classified funny in the amazon database, thedvdwars.com also missed it and did not include it for weeks.

hdgamedb has the top 10 avg ranked at 66, with RE:A #78 instead of Transporter2 @ 103, the avg rank should be 64 or 63 on 2007.03.06, 1:58pm eastern.

While this sale is great and I may now have more BDs than HD DVDs after my order arrives, it does make it a little more difficult to compare how the 2 formats are doing IMO. I won't complain if HD DVD ends up doing a similar sale, but it could put them ahead during the time of the sale if they do.

I wonder how many people will be pushed over the line to purchase a PS3 with this sale, "Casino Royale" coming next Tuesday, and "Motorstorm" being released today (for those who care about games like that too).

--Darin

While this sale is great and I may now have more BDs than HD DVDs after my order arrives, it does make it a little more difficult to compare how the 2 formats are doing IMO. --Darin

Why would it be more difficult? It's not like Amazon.com is giving away the things for free like Toshiba is....

It's a discount promo like any other discount promo. It's a normal part of marketing strategy. I mean, Microsoft killed Netscape by giving away IE completely for free and bundled with the OS...amazon.com is doing Blu-ray a favor by basically showing how far behind Hd-DVd is becoming in terms of title sales and exposing the pent-up demand for Blu-ray titles at a slightly lower price point.

In the grand scheme of things, for amazon Fox disks at 19.97, this is STILL higher than Warner@19.95, so this is not a giveaway, it just shows what price people really want to pay for these disks.

According to my gold box, all blu-ray movies are 50% off. Now thats what I call a sale. I wouldn't have expected either format to be on sale so early.

I do take one fact from it, the high cost of HD movies is really what is holding back both formats. Look at the increase of sales of Black Hawk Down when it was dropped to $14.95. Now we have some real evidence that the price point is really under $20 and most people arn't willing to pay a premium for HD content.

Adam

According to my gold box, all blu-ray movies are 50% off. Now thats what I call a sale. I wouldn't have expected either format to be on sale so early.

I do take one fact from it, the high cost of HD movies is really what is holding back both formats. Look at the increase of sales of Black Hawk Down when it was dropped to $14.95. Now we have some real evidence that the price point is really under $20 and most people arn't willing to pay a premium for HD content.

Adam
The Devil Wears Prada and other new disks are not on sale though. I think it's only the new ones that had average reviews and the older titles. BHD and KoH are definitely good deals for what you get.

---

At this pace, amazon should be running out of stock. Their stock in hand must be taking a huge dip by end of the day if they don't bring in more new stock.

The Devil Wears Prada and other new disks are not on sale though. I think it's only the new ones that had average reviews and the older titles. BHD and KoH are definitely good deals for what you get.

Oh your right. I didn't read the fine print. It says more than 40 disks. So I guess that isn't all.

It no lost that The Devil Wears Prada isn't on the list, it teaches the wrong lesson that unsupportive friends who are selfish about themselves should prevent you from chasing your dreams.

Adam

Oh your right. I didn't read the fine print. It says more than 40 disks. So I guess that isn't all.

It no lost that The Devil Wears Prada isn't on the list, it teaches the wrong lesson that unsupportive friends who are selfish about themselves should prevent you from chasing your dreams.

Adam
True, but also that dreams built upon materialism without a true moral compass may not be all they're cracked up to be. :)

Oh your right. I didn't read the fine print. It says more than 40 disks. So I guess that isn't all.

It no lost that The Devil Wears Prada isn't on the list, it teaches the wrong lesson that unsupportive friends who are selfish about themselves should prevent you from chasing your dreams.

Adam

DWP also has very soft PQ.

Oh your right. I didn't read the fine print. It says more than 40 disks. So I guess that isn't all.

It no lost that The Devil Wears Prada isn't on the list, it teaches the wrong lesson that unsupportive friends who are selfish about themselves should prevent you from chasing your dreams.

Adam

And apart from one good scene, it has a really lazy screenplay.

Holy cow! 12 titles in the top 100.
Here's how they stand right now on Amazon.com:

Casino Royale 22
Kingdom of Heaven (Director's Cut) 36
Black Hawk Down 38
X-Men 3 - The Last Stand 40
The Departed 56
District B13 59
Resident Evil - Apocalypse 61
Ice Age - The Meltdown 65
The Transporter 67
Fantastic Four 83
Transporter 2 87
Memento 99

True, but also that dreams built upon materialism without a true moral compass may not be all they're cracked up to be. :)


Thats a good point. Our dreams should be more than the amount of stuff we have. Of course this is in a thread about collecting movies. :rolleyes:

Adam

I just happened to be looking at another DVD sale, Seinfeld Complete collection on DVD (Seasons 1 -7) are on sale for $100. It ranked #5. Maybe it just that they are on sale and not what the actual price is. People see sale, and are trained to buy.

Adam

Why would it be more difficult? It's not like Amazon.com is giving away the things for free like Toshiba is....

It's a discount promo like any other discount promo. It's a normal part of marketing strategy. I mean, Microsoft killed Netscape by giving away IE completely for free and bundled with the OS...amazon.com is doing Blu-ray a favor by basically showing how far behind Hd-DVd is becoming in terms of title sales and exposing the pent-up demand for Blu-ray titles at a slightly lower price point.If these were the long term prices it would be one thing, but since it is just a sale, I will be interested to see how the 2 formats are doing again when neither side has a sale like this going on. That will tell me more. Just like if HD DVD was the one with the sale today and it put them ahead of Blu-ray on Amazon, it wouldn't tell me that they were doing better overall than Blu-ray.

--Darin

Either amazon does NOT sell a lot of DVD totals, or we are seeing a heck of a large pent up demand for Blu-ray titles at a slightly lower price point.

Man, I am so happy that Sony included blu-ray instead of a HD-DVD drive in my PS3. It is much easier on my wallet per movie and the selection is better :D


http://www.eproductwars.com/dvd/

Average Amazon.com price
Blu-ray $21.50
HD DVD $28.70

If these were the long term prices it would be one thing, but since it is just a sale, I will be interested to see how the 2 formats are doing again when neither side has a sale like this going on. That will tell me more. Just like if HD DVD was the one with the sale today and it put them ahead of Blu-ray on Amazon, it wouldn't tell me that they were doing better overall than Blu-ray.

--Darin


It still will be difficult to tell. Much of the blu-ray demand will be filled. Thus I would expect a drop in Blu-ray sales after the sale for a while.

Adam

Either amazon does NOT sell a lot of DVD totals, or we are seeing a heck of a large pent up demand for Blu-ray titles at a slightly lower price point.

Man, I am so happy that Sony included blu-ray instead of a HD-DVD drive in my PS3. It is much easier on my wallet per movie and the selection is better :D


http://www.eproductwars.com/dvd/

Average Amazon.com price
Blu-ray $21.50
HD DVD $28.70

Man, I am so happy that Sony included blu-ray instead of a HD-DVD drive in my PS3. It is much easier on my wallet per movie and the selection is better :D


http://www.eproductwars.com/dvd/


But that's due to the price premium on combo's. I think if you look at the titles that don't have combos, you wouldn't see much difference. I think HD DVD is a bit cheaper sometimes, but usually it's about the same.

But that's due to the price premium on combo's. I think if you look at the titles that don't have combos, you wouldn't see much difference. I think HD DVD is a bit cheaper sometimes, but usually it's about the same.

Last I checked at Best Buy and Fry's the movies that are offered on Combo's aren't also offered as non-combo's on HD-DVD. Is that not the case at others sources for buying Hd-DVD's?

Last I checked at Best Buy and Fry's the movies that are offered on Combo's aren't also offered as non-combo's on HD-DVD. Is that not the case at others sources for buying Hd-DVD's?

No.

I'm not really disagreeing with you so much as adding information. Apples to Apples, HD DVD disc don't cost more than BD disc. But many of the HD DVD disc include an SD version as well, and that increases the price. Some may not like that fact, (although I do), but still it's not quite fair imo to show average prices without adding that information for context.

It still will be difficult to tell. Much of the blu-ray demand will be filled. Thus I would expect a drop in Blu-ray sales after the sale for a while.I agree. There are multiple complicating factors and this with the resulting affects are big ones. If Amazon is included in the Videoscan numbers (as one report says they are) then this sale should help those numbers for Blu-ray, but if not, then it could hurt them (since other stores miss out on sales).

--Darin

But that's due to the price premium on combo's. I think if you look at the titles that don't have combos, you wouldn't see much difference. I think HD DVD is a bit cheaper sometimes, but usually it's about the same.

Yeah, but isn't Universal saying 100% of their titles will be combos eventually.

But that's due to the price premium on combo's. I think if you look at the titles that don't have combos, you wouldn't see much difference. I think HD DVD is a bit cheaper sometimes, but usually it's about the same.That's due to the 50% sale going on now. HD DVD has combos and Blu-ray has FOX pushing up the top average prices. I do think that Blu-ray prices will be lower than HD DVD in the long run due to the greater number of discs that will be sold per title. But right now the run-of-the-mill HD DVD disc is still a bit cheaper.

No.

I'm not really disagreeing with you so much as adding information. Apples to Apples, HD DVD disc don't cost more than BD disc. But many of the HD DVD disc include an SD version as well, and that increases the price. Some may not like that fact, (although I do), but still it's not quite fair imo to show average prices without adding that information for context.

Especially when that average price is average of the top 10 only. I think you'd find the average of all titles together is going to be pretty similar at any given time -- within a dollar or so of each other, definitely.

The average price is probably the most useless piece of information on the eproductwars site.

Holy cow! 12 titles in the top 100.
Here's how they stand right now on Amazon.com:

Casino Royale 22
Kingdom of Heaven (Director's Cut) 36
Black Hawk Down 38
X-Men 3 - The Last Stand 40
The Departed 56
District B13 59
Resident Evil - Apocalypse 61
Ice Age - The Meltdown 65
The Transporter 67
Fantastic Four 83
Transporter 2 87
Memento 99

Yeah, Blu-ray is timing this perfectly. During the HD-DVD sabbatical. I say Blu-ray can get to 3 to 1 in sales by the end of March on the back of discount sales like this and several big titles including Casino Royale which is likely to be one of the best selling Hi-def movies of the year, that or Spiderman III or POTC III.

No.

I'm not really disagreeing with you so much as adding information. Apples to Apples, HD DVD disc don't cost more than BD disc. But many of the HD DVD disc include an SD version as well, and that increases the price. Some may not like that fact, (although I do), but still it's not quite fair imo to show average prices without adding that information for context.


according to the link I provided, HD-DVD's do cost more at Amazon.com and by quite a bit. I disagree, it is very fair as that is the only way the movie can be purchased on that format.

If I had the option to buy Superman Returns as a combo as well as a non-combo then I'd agree with you, however that is simply not the case. Hence why I'm happy that the PS3 came with a blu-ray player instead of a HD-DVD player for situations like this. Less expensive movies is bid advantage to me as $20 is much more comfortable for buying a movie.

If Universal were on blu-ray (maybe one day) I'd be disappointed if all they offered were combo's. This would lead to more rentals than purchases.

No.

I'm not really disagreeing with you so much as adding information. Apples to Apples, HD DVD disc don't cost more than BD disc. But many of the HD DVD disc include an SD version as well, and that increases the price. Some may not like that fact, (although I do), but still it's not quite fair imo to show average prices without adding that information for context.

Another thing to add is that Blu-Ray and HD DVD are generally the same price... it just depends on the studio releasing to it.

For instance, non-combo Warner Bros./Paramount HD DVD titles catalog titles are sold on HD DVD for $20, and go for the same amount on Blu-Ray. Warner's day-and-date titles are higher on HD DVD because they are combos.

Fox/MGM Blu-Ray titles however are higher regardless of how new or old the film is.

~Alan

If this sale ends up being amazon only, then I'm not sure it's safe to expect BR to be _that_ much ahead of HD DVD in march -- it should be more than usual (as amazon isn't insignificant and Casino Royale will definitely be a popular one), but I wouldn't expect an outrageous lead... although I'd expect at least a 2.5:1 this month.

We are seeing complete Blu-ray victory.

Also to stay updated on the Blu-ray sales domination story visit the stickied Blu-ray sales thread for the latest breaking news.

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=798272

We are seeing complete Blu-ray victory.

Also to stay updated on the Blu-ray sales domination story visit the stickied Blu-ray sales thread for the latest breaking news.

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=798272
HD-DVD has ZERO titles in the top 100 :eek:

according to the link I provided, HD-DVD's do cost more at Amazon.com and by quite a bit. I disagree, it is very fair as that is the only way the movie can be purchased on that format.

If I had the option to buy Superman Returns as a combo as well as a non-combo then I'd agree with you, however that is simply not the case. Hence why I'm happy that the PS3 came with a blu-ray player instead of a HD-DVD player for situations like this. Less expensive movies is bid advantage to me as $20 is much more comfortable for buying a movie.

If Universal were on blu-ray (maybe one day) I'd be disappointed if all they offered were combo's. This would lead to more rentals than purchases.


Fair enough.

I think it's more appropriate to say that pure HD DVD's and BD's cost about the same, but that the HD DVD/SD combo's cost more. You, on the other hand, think it's more appropriate to simply say that HD DVD's cost more than BDs.

We'll let the readers decide which of the two of us has the fairer description.

We are seeing complete Blu-ray victory.

Also to stay updated on the Blu-ray sales domination story visit the stickied Blu-ray sales thread for the latest breaking news.

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=798272


Let me ask you, are these your words too?

Amazing! We are seeing complete Blu-ray domination, HD-DVD will likely be discontinued by christmas. Now is the time to get rid of obsolete HD-DVD equipment while you still can!!!

ha ha :)

No offense, but I have some friends for you to meet on my ignore list :)

Fair enough.

I think it's more appropriate to say that pure HD DVD's and BD's cost about the same, but that the HD DVD/SD combo's cost more. You, on the other hand, think it's more appropriate to simply say that HD DVD's cost more than BDs.

We'll let the readers decide which of the two of us has the fairer description.

I agree with that and is pretty much what I said, I guess the wording isn't how you would have stated it, but the meaning is the same. My point is that if I owned both formats I'd be picking up the blu-ray version like Superman Returns for example as it is significantly less expensive for many titles that are combo's on HD-DVD. Cutting out combo's is the same as cutting out a % of titles from HD-DVD.

I'm not hear to let other readers decide if I'm being fair by being happy that I don't have to pay significantly more for a combo when I don't care about the SD side. (HD movies are expensive enough for me before adding on the extra cost of the combos) Maybe you are and that is fine, that just isn't for me. I'm very well aware that different people have different wants, I'm sure you can agree with that.

It seems that price does matter. :)

It seems that price does matter. :)

Yup, which is why I will be capitalizing on that 50% off amazon sell, many titles that I wanted before but were too expensive. :D

All this tells me is that I obviously have very different taste in movies from the majority of PS3 owners. I would buy 3 of those 12 listed in the top 100 for Blu Ray. I mean, come on, Ice Age 2 - the meltdown? Resident Evil - Apocolypse? The Transporter 2? Thousands of people are actually buying these? :confused:

HD-DVD has ZERO titles in the top 100 :eek:

I think the departed (HD-DVD) simply got pushed off by the influx if Blu-ray titles.

It doers say a lot though when blu-ray has like 15 (!) titles in the Top 100 and Hd-dvd has none (with the departed being at #126)

This seems like a complete disconnect with the allegedly strong sales of HD-DVD players - but then again, perhaps we're just seeing lots of buys from the PS3 "gamers" - like me :D

All this tells me is that I obviously have very different taste in movies from the majority of PS3 owners. I would buy 3 of those 12 listed in the top 100 for Blu Ray. I mean, come on, Ice Age 2 - the meltdown? Resident Evil - Apocolypse? The Transporter 2? Thousands of people are actually buying these? :confused:

Yeah, incredible. I wanted to order The Seventh Seal but it isn't even out on BD yet. :D

Uh, guys... no offense intended, but knock off the immature gloating please. A 50%-off sale would do this to sales rankings for either format.... actually a 50% off sale would probably do this for used 8-tracks. ;)

Trying to extrapolate a single-vendor sale into ULTIMATE BLU-RAY DOMINATION is just childish... and I say this as someone who dropped about $150 on the sale this morning.

It's great for the consumer, but let's not make it into something it isn't. :rolleyes:

Uh, guys... no offense intended, but knock off the immature gloating please. A 50%-off sale would do this to sales rankings for either format.... actually a 50% off sale would probably do this for used 8-tracks. ;)

Trying to extrapolate a single-vendor sale into ULTIMATE BLU-RAY DOMINATION is just childish... and I say this as someone who dropped about $150 on the sale this morning.

It's great for the consumer, but let's not make it into something it isn't. :rolleyes:


It's not 50% off Amazon's regular prices. More like just a few bucks. BIG difference.

Yeah, incredible. I wanted to order The Seventh Seal but it isn't even out on BD yet. :D

Ah, the perfect way to show off your 1080p display...

Manga films have distribution rights to it in Spain, so we may yet see it on HD DVD in Europe. Can't wait to see the extras disc - How they made the reaper costume, blooper reel etc.

Yeah, incredible. I wanted to order The Seventh Seal but it isn't even out on BD yet. :D
Didn't you hear? You don't have to have a BD player, an upconverted DVD will look about the same :)

It's not 50% off Amazon's regular prices. More like just a few bucks. BIG difference.

Yes. But, I think it shows you how tipping points in pricing can be significant. The extra 18% is getting far more results than you'd think it should.

It seems that sub-$20 everyone snaps up titles (especially those Fox ones).

Gary

Didn't you hear? You don't have to have a BD player, an upconverted DVD will look about the same :)

Ooooo. ;)

It still will be difficult to tell. Much of the blu-ray demand will be filled. Thus I would expect a drop in Blu-ray sales after the sale for a while.

Adam
Most likely.

Regardless, this should certainly help Blu-ray's March (pun?)

Now if player sales can be effected by this sale as well, things may not taper quite so much.

HOUSE OF FLYING DAGGERS at #156, better than ANYTHING on HD DVD side except The Departed (#135).

It's House of Flying Daggers, CMON!!!

LoL

HOUSE OF FLYING DAGGERS at #156, better than ANYTHING on HD DVD side except The Departed (#135).

It's House of Flying Daggers, CMON!!!

LoL

House of Flying Daggers is a very good movie....not sure how good the transfer was though....The Departed is over-rated.

It's up to 16 titles in the top 100 :eek: :

Casino Royale
Kingdom of Heaven
Black Hawk Down
X-Men 3 - The Last Stand
The Departed
District B13
Resident Evil - Apocalypse
Ice Age - The Meltdown
The Transporter
Fantastic Four
Transporter 2
Memento
Tears of the Sun
Kung Fu Hustle
Speed
The Fifth Element

Not necessarily in that order. The Blu-ray bestseller numbers are changing every hour. :D

The eproductwars site is having problems - due to the heavy traffic I'm guessing. Either that or the pro-HD DVD mod shite himself. j/k

The eproductwars site is having problems - due to the heavy traffic I'm guessing. Either that or the pro-HD DVD mod shite himself. j/k

The last time that happened, it completely messed up the charts for days afterward.

It's not 50% off Amazon's regular prices. More like just a few bucks. BIG difference.
I haven't done the price comparison on many titles, but it looks like it averages around a $5 discount on average from Amazon's usual pricing with the exception of Fox titles which are discounted about $8 (bringing them down from the stratosphere to pricing more comparable with other studios.)

What where the terms of the Amazon HD DVD sale a while back? I thought that was a $5 off deal - which isn't exactly the same but should be roughly comparable. You can see the impact clearly on hdgamedb.com's historical charts. Try a 45-day chart and look at the surge around 2/7-2/9 for the impact.

No matter how you slice it, the surge in sales here are pretty impressive. It will definitely be interesting to see how this impacts sales immediately after the deal closes, and whether Fox reconsiders their pricing given the obvious evidence that there's demand held back in the face of steep pricing.

It's not 50% off Amazon's regular prices. More like just a few bucks. BIG difference.

You should read up on human psychology. If something new and shiny is 50% off, it almost doesn't matter what the original price was. People will buy it in droves.

You should read up on human psychology. If something new and shiny is 50% off, it almost doesn't matter what the original price was. People will buy it in droves.

Word :cool:

50% off sounds better than $5 off ;)

I would also add, that a sale has another issue. Buy now or pay more later. Thus there is an incentive for everyone to buy today thus it raises the rank. If the price was permantly dropped to these prices then people wouldn't have a strong desire to buy today.

I would like to remind those who bought these titles lately to go and get a price match.


Ok, opnion time, Is this sale for today only, or longer?

My guess its a 24 hour sale, what do others think?

Adam

I would also add, that a sale has another issue. Buy now or pay more later. Thus there is an incentive for everyone to buy today thus it raises the rank. If the price was permantly dropped to these prices then people wouldn't have a strong desire to buy today.

I would like to remind those who bought these titles lately to go and get a price match.


Ok, opnion time, Is this sale for today only, or longer?

My guess its a 24 hour sale, what do others think?

Adam

I think it's going to last a week.

It's up to 16 titles in the top 100
And A Knight's Tale makes 17!

And A Knight's Tale makes 17!At last check it looks like it is back to 16 titles in the top 100, but the top 24 titles right now are Blu-ray ("The Departed" on HD DVD is #25 for the 2 formats).

--Darin

I CANNOT believe my eyes....

As of 8:11 pm

TWO Blu-ray titles in the Top 20!
FOUR in the Top 25!
NINE in the top 50!

#19 Casino Royale
#20 Kingdom of Heaven
#24 X-Men
#25 BHD
#39 District B13
#40 Ice Age 2
#44 Resident Evil
#47 Kung Fu Hustle
#49 F4

At last check it looks like it is back to 16 titles in the top 100, but the top 24 titles right now are Blu-ray ("The Departed" on HD DVD is #25 for the 2 formats).

--Darin
Now it's up to 18 with The World's Fastest Indian.

I'm checking with Amazon.com not the other sites.

Titles 1-25 (4):
http://www.amazon.com/gp/bestsellers/dvd/51562011/ref=pd_ts_pg_1/102-8853571-2235342?ie=UTF8&pg=1

Titles 26-50 (7):
http://www.amazon.com/gp/bestsellers/dvd/51562011/ref=pd_ts_pg_1/102-8853571-2235342?ie=UTF8&pg=2

Titles 51-75 (4):
http://www.amazon.com/gp/bestsellers/dvd/51562011/ref=pd_ts_pg_1/102-8853571-2235342?ie=UTF8&pg=3

Titles 76-100 (3):
http://www.amazon.com/gp/bestsellers/dvd/51562011/ref=pd_ts_pg_4/102-8853571-2235342?ie=UTF8&pg=4

4 + 7 + 4 + 3 = 18

Now it's up to 18 with The World's Fastest Indian.

I'm checking with Amazon.com not the other sites.

Titles 1-25 (4):
http://www.amazon.com/gp/bestsellers/dvd/51562011/ref=pd_ts_pg_1/102-8853571-2235342?ie=UTF8&pg=1

Titles 26-50 (7):
http://www.amazon.com/gp/bestsellers/dvd/51562011/ref=pd_ts_pg_1/102-8853571-2235342?ie=UTF8&pg=2

Titles 51-75 (4):
http://www.amazon.com/gp/bestsellers/dvd/51562011/ref=pd_ts_pg_1/102-8853571-2235342?ie=UTF8&pg=3

Titles 76-100 (3):
http://www.amazon.com/gp/bestsellers/dvd/51562011/ref=pd_ts_pg_4/102-8853571-2235342?ie=UTF8&pg=4

4 + 7 + 4 + 3 = 18Maybe they moved, because I see 6 in the 26-50 group and 5 in the 51-75 group ("The Transporter 2" at #67 isn't marked as Blu-ray, even though it is). That would be 18 though. Looks like "Resident Evil: Apocalypse" is missing from the hdgamedb.com site, which is why it only has 17 in the top 100 rankings.

--Darin

Blu-ray top 50 is at #35. This is Madness!

The question to ask yourselves: Is this just demand being pulled forward or demand actually being created? My guess is it's more of the former rather than the latter.

My view is that this is the usual pricing driving up attach rate scenario. The PS3 is a rather strange beast. It appears most people buy PS3 mainly for games instead of movies (though I can't figure out why, since until recently with Virtua Fighter 5 & Sonic, there really was only Resistance, and one game cannot launch a format). So most PS3 owners appear to not be buying BD movies.

But that joked about low attach rate seems to be very elastic, ie: they move up very rapidly with the right pricing, so this should tell the studios (ALL studios) plenty in terms of market research on the actual shape of the demand curve for highdef disks.

That wide installed base that includes the PS3 is now talking loudly on the subject of desired pricing.

My view is that this is the usual pricing driving up attach rate scenario. The PS3 is a rather strange beast. It appears most people buy PS3 mainly for games instead of movies (though I can't figure out why, since until recently with Virtua Fighter 5 & Sonic, there really was only Resistance, and one game cannot launch a format). So most PS3 owners appear to not be buying BD movies.

But that joked about low attach rate seems to be very elastic, ie: they move up very rapidly with the right pricing, so this should tell the studios (ALL studios) plenty in terms of market research on the actual shape of the demand curve for highdef disks.

This 'spike' tells you nothing about elasticity of demand. If it were a permanent price shock, it would be more telling. However, people don't know how long it's going to last so a lot of the demand is simply being pulled forward.

Case and point, I finished my backfill of blu-ray releases. I didn't change what I was going to buy. I just bought it sooner.

Chris

It appears Blu-ray's lead over HD-DVD continue to grow. It does not seem to be waning at all. This is AMAZING!!

~Josh

Ok, opnion time, Is this sale for today only, or longer?

My guess its a 24 hour sale, what do others think?No need for opinion. If you subscribe to this RSS feed:

http://rssfeeds.s3.amazonaws.com/goldbox

You can see when all Amazon Goldbox deals expire. This 50% off sale expires on March 27th.

It appears Blu-ray's lead over HD-DVD continue to grow. It does not seem to be waning at all. This is AMAZING!!

~Josh

http://heavyharmonies.ipbhost.com/style_emoticons/default/cheer.gif http://heavyharmonies.ipbhost.com/style_emoticons/default/cheer.gif http://heavyharmonies.ipbhost.com/style_emoticons/default/cheer.gif http://heavyharmonies.ipbhost.com/style_emoticons/default/cheer.gif




It's.

A.

Freakin'.

Sale.


The cheerleaders are celebrating as if this happened in a vacuum and is a natural progression.

It's a sale. People buy boatloads when things are on sale.

Were the sales spikes of both formats caused by the GCO $20 off $50 deal natural or were they caused by the sale?

Using your logic, since I spent $150 on the sale today, that OBVIOUSLY means I'm selling off all of my HD-DVDs, taking a 24 lb. sledgehammer to my HD-A1, and spraypainting my a$$ blue, right?

C'mon. A little common sense is in order... (not anticipated, but sorely needed).

It is NOT half off Amazon's regular price. It is half off maximum retail pricing. The sale is actually only about $5 off Amazon's regular price.

What these sales results show is really the power of the PS3 and validates Sony's strategy of including the BD drive, and creating a giant installed user base for the winning next generation optical format.

That "low" attach rate that HD-DVD fans have harped about is working out in BDs favor.

There are huge numbers of BD owners (gamers etc.) that don't have any of these movies.

This sale really is evidence for studios of what kind of pricing strategy will capture this market.

And you can bet that Universal is watching too.

The World's Fastest Indian HD DVD is also 50% off but it is not doing nearly as well in the rankings as its Blu-ray counterpart. Both discs are $14.99.

There are now 20 titles in the top 100 with these two:

The League of Extraordinary Gentlemen
The Prestige

Using your logic, since I spent $150 on the sale today, that OBVIOUSLY means I'm selling off all of my HD-DVDs, taking a 24 lb. sledgehammer to my HD-A1, and spraypainting my a$$ blue, right?

You are not?

The World's Fastest Indian HD DVD is also 50% off but it is not doing nearly as well in the rankings as its Blu-ray counterpart. Both discs are $14.99.


If you look at it most buyers buy more than one moive so while they are buying all hese moives they grab this one too.

Will HD DVD have a sale after Mar 27th?

spraypainting my a$$ blue, right?


I'm not gay, but I'd really like to see this with a 30mbps VC-1 transfer. :D

It's.

A.

Freakin'.

Sale.


It's A-MA-ZING, with FOUR Blu-ray titles in the top 25 DVDs, and TWENTY Blu-ray titles in the Top 100 DVDs.

And compare a title that are BOTH on sale.

The world's Fastest Indian

Blu-ray - #93
HD-DVD - #241

That pretty much says it all...both are $15

Currently, Blu-ray's top 18 are all higher by a good margin than HD DVD's top title.

Also, Blu-ray's top 100 average (1404) higher than HD DVD's top 25 (1625).

Wow.

/carmi

No need for opinion. If you subscribe to this RSS feed:

http://rssfeeds.s3.amazonaws.com/goldbox

You can see when all Amazon Goldbox deals expire. This 50% off sale expires on March 27th.

Oh wow, 3 weeks.

Now, I'm not any expert on how sales work, but is this amazon thinking (and thinking correctly) that they could make more money by selling more at a lower profit, or does the sale come from the fact that amazon was able to get them cheaper from the studios. I ask this because its only blu-ray exclusive studios whos titles are on sale. World Fastest Indian is on sale in both formats.

Adam

Oh wow, 3 weeks.

Now, I'm not any expert on how sales work, but is this amazon thinking (and thinking correctly) that they could make more money by selling more at a lower profit, or does the sale come from the fact that amazon was able to get them cheaper from the studios. I ask this because its only blu-ray exclusive studios whos titles are on sale. World Fastest Indian is on sale in both formats.

Adam
Maybe Amazon is tired of stocking 2 formats. ;)

That was not a flame statement, BTW. I don't see it being out of the realm of possibility.

i just ordered 5 more disks, i think it is under 20$ that works for me. i got 4 i wanted and one impulse buy because it was 15$

i am blue ray only because i have got both my kids PS3s

i may have to get them each there own disks soon :(

Maybe Amazon is tired of stocking 2 formats. ;)

That was not a flame statement, BTW. I don't see it being out of the realm of possibility.

Its out of the realm of possibility because Blu-ray has been selling way better than HD DVD. If anything, I would get rid of all the HD DVD inventory since there are less of them and they are selling slower.

Its out of the realm of possibility because Blu-ray has been selling way better than HD DVD. If anything, I would get rid of all the HD DVD inventory since there are less of them and they are selling slower.

he was kidding...amazon. com is stocking up on some of those titles that are on sale as the inventory goes down. you can see the inventory going up once in awhile as new shipments arrive.

Btw, As of 1 am there are currently THREE blu-ray titles in the Top 20, and Casino Royale could crack the Top 10 when it launches next week...

#18 - X-men
#19 - Kingdom
#20 - Casino Royale

If someone had told me earlier this week that there would be this much demand for blu-ray i would have laughed my head off...well, the joke would have been on me :eek:

The World's Fastest Indian HD DVD is also 50% off but it is not doing nearly as well in the rankings as its Blu-ray counterpart. Both discs are $14.99.If you look at it most buyers buy more than one moive so while they are buying all hese moives they grab this one too.

Will HD DVD have a sale after Mar 27th?I completely agree. A rising tide lifts all ships. The sale lifted The Prestige back into the Top 100 even though it is not part of the 50% off sale and has not hurt Casino Royale sales at all. IMO Blu-ray's greater content will lead to a Blu-ray win over HD DVD's cheap players.

I imagine when Warner starts releasing those "HD DVD exclusives" like Batman Begins on Blu-ray it will lead to greater sales of other Blu-ray titles as well.

It will be interesting to see if this sale has a significant impact on the format war and if it does then how the HD DVD camp responds. I hope they respond with Universal going neutral.

Amazon could very well be having a clearance sale of HD DVD movies on March 27, 2008.

Were you guys posting these numbers when HDDVD was at the top of Amazon sales?

They should do a 50% off HD DVD first and see what happens then make a decision.

The World's Fastest Indian has a 6 week wait list for HD DVD, while the BD version is in stock - as of now. Hence, the 138 v. 240 sales rank difference.

But I agree a rising tide lifts all boats and the upsurge on Amazon will lead to higher sales of all BD related products - likely. The number of BD titles in the top sellers among all titles is impressive nonetheless and shows that there is a huge BD community that will buy at a lower price.

The fact that the sales goes on until the end of March does indicate that the BDA is using Q1 as sweeps week, to show how they have won the format war. However, as long as people are buying HD DVD Players and movies and MSFT, Universal and Warner continue to back HD DVD, we're going to have both formats. IMO, If Sony has a killer Quarter, then we are more likely to see an end to the format war this year. If Sony has a bad Q, then the format war will go on....

Wonder what will be the top 10 BD titles for next week....

Also, wonder what the studios that did not have a 50% sale think about the Sony, Fox offer....will they follow with their own promo after this one ends? I am expecting a big announcement soon ;)

Oh wow, 3 weeks.Just a quick follow-on thought, but I don't know how titles selling out affects this deal. I mean, if a title sells out, and then gets more in stock, will it show up on the page and/or continue to have the 50% discount? (I haven't been paying really close attention to which titles have been disappearing, but someone who has may want to chime in with specific titles and whether or not the product page still shows a 50% off-deal).

I'm hoping it's non-stop myself. I ordered three titles, and wouldn't mind the chance to order another two or three in a week or so.

Also, wonder what the studios that did not have a 50% sale think about the Sony, Fox offer....will they follow with their own promo after this one ends? I am expecting a big announcement soon ;)I'm guessing they will pay attention. I just looked at the rankings to find the highest released title from Universal. Looks like "Serenity". From the in stock numbers on eproductwars.com it looks like they've been selling about 3 copies a day average for the last 6 days or so. Looks like they were doing closer to 10 copies per day before that. Not sure how reliable those are, but if Universal had a sale like this that took the price on Amazon from about $20 to about $15, I bet their sales would go way up. There are quite a few titles down in the rankings, like "The Fast and the Furious: Tokyo Drift" that seem to be selling maybe a couple copies a day on average and could probably sell reasonable volumes with something like this.

--Darin

Were you guys posting these numbers when HDDVD was at the top of Amazon sales?Yes. In this thread. (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=804203) There were 3 Blu-ray titles and 1 HD DVD title in the top 100 of the Amazon sales the second week in February. Nothing like what's happening now.

Very impressive. Chalk me up for 4 more BD. Hopefully they get here soon.

The World's Fastest Indian has a 6 week wait list for HD DVD, while the BD version is in stock - as of now. Hence, the 138 v. 240 sales rank difference.

But I agree a rising tide lifts all boats and the upsurge on Amazon will lead to higher sales of all BD related products - likely. The number of BD titles in the top sellers among all titles is impressive nonetheless and shows that there is a huge BD community that will buy at a lower price.

The fact that the sales goes on until the end of March does indicate that the BDA is using Q1 as sweeps week, to show how they have won the format war. However, as long as people are buying HD DVD Players and movies and MSFT, Universal and Warner continue to back HD DVD, we're going to have both formats. IMO, If Sony has a killer Quarter, then we are more likely to see an end to the format war this year. If Sony has a bad Q, then the format war will go on....

Wonder what will be the top 10 BD titles for next week....

Also, wonder what the studios that did not have a 50% sale think about the Sony, Fox offer....will they follow with their own promo after this one ends? I am expecting a big announcement soon ;)

There's one thing to consider, in spite of the sudden sale in Fox catalog releases boosting their sales, Warner catalog non-combo releases have always been 19.95 on amazon. Superman Returns both red and blue have always had some decent sales rankings on both and continually pop in and out of the top rankings (more on weeks with no new releases). All that seems to have happened with Fox titles is that they are now only 2c more expensive than Warner ones. Warner should have no complaints about Fox, if anything, this further affirms that Warner's price for catalogs is the correct one.

As for Sony, Sony's price reduction is on their really old disks like 50 first dates, hitch, T5E, HofD, disks that have had some bad press, as well as a few others that were good, but have been around for a long time (it was clear they no longer generate the buzz they used to).

Generally newer titles like TN, Click are not on the list.

This tells me that if Paramount & Warner were to look at their older releases, make them $14.99 and Universal chose 19.97, Serenity and Superman, MI, Aeon Flux and TLS would probably have decent sales as well.

In fact to test the breadth of the installed base for red and blu, such a sale would tell us a lot.

Were you guys posting these numbers when HDDVD was at the top of Amazon sales?
I followed the HD DVD rankings a little back then. the eproducts/thedvdwars web site then had less useful statistics, so only top 10 rankings and # in top 100 was interesting enough to follow.

HD DVD rankings had never had this kind of numbers, not even close. Back then, only one title was ever in the top 100.

A couple of days ago, I was considering the possible next milestones to be 5 top 100 rankings, or average top 10 breaking 200. The way this happened has to generate some excitement - other than a blowout, there's no other term for it.

You will see a lot of interest from general public outside stock exchange buildings on extreme good days (and bad ones) that match what is happening here for some avsforum people.

I followed the HD DVD rankings a little back then. the eproducts/thedvdwars web site then had less useful statistics, so only top 10 rankings and # in top 100 was interesting enough to follow.

HD DVD rankings had never had this kind of numbers, not even close. Back then, only one title was ever in the top 100.


It's probably because the Blu-ray population base has reached some sort of milestone...

Right now, there are THREE blu-ray titles in the Top 20 (with Kingdom at #16!), and with 1 more threatening at #21...

Numbers like this I would never have believed if you had predicted this just a few days ago.

Amazing!

Top 10 BD discs are in Amazon's top 50 right now ...

Top 25 BD Discs end at #128 in Amazon's top DVDs also. Top HD DVD disc right now is at #160 (The Departed).

It seems that price does matter. :)
yes indeed, I wish a similar sale was offered on HD DVDs....

definitely a good sales & marketing strategy, entice PS3 owners to buy additional titles before Q1 ends and doing so during a very quiet sales period (in absolute #s relative to the holidays).

BDA folks getting smarter, the HD DVD camp needs to take notice !

yes indeed, I wish a similar sale was offered on HD DVDs....

definitely a good sales & marketing strategy, entice PS3 owners to buy additional titles before Q1 ends and doing so during a very quiet sales period (in absolute #s relative to the holidays).

BDA folks getting smarter, the HD DVD camp needs to take notice !

Right now I think Universal just wants to see HD-DVD gone. It seems lately like the lack of activity and new big releases is part of their strategy to starve and lower HD-DVD sales. Once the sales sink even more Universal could justify going neutral because Blu-ray would be selling much more than HD-DVD. I highly doubt any price drop will come from Universal.

Right now I think Universal just wants to see HD-DVD gone. .
Amazing the ignorance of this post.

Well, if Amazon was testing the waters to see whether or not to drop a format, they would likely have put the sale on both formats. This looks like Fox, Sony made a promotional deal with Amazon. If it were just Amazon, I don't know why it would only affect some studios.

It will be interesting to see how sales go while this sale is on (ends the 27th, I think I read here). I expect the sales volumes to drop back down closer to normal after a week or so. Higher, but closer to normal. Current sales figures are probably a bit of a knee jerk reaction by consumers to what they perceive as big savings (I know, only a few bucks per disk off amazon's normal price). I don't think they are sustainable, but they could improve market penetration.

I'd think a lot of ps3 owners who weren't bothering with BD could see this and decide to try a few out. That could help spur future sales if they like what they see.

Amazing the ignorance of this post.
How else can you explain the lack of support for HD-DVD?

That list of movies they are going to release was an absolute joke.
Where are all of the big titles? Where is Jaws, JP and ET? Not a single titles on the list would be a good reason to justify buying into HD-DVD.

It seems like Universal is just throwing some of the current HD-DVD early adopters a bone to keep them form bitching.

How else can you explain the lack of support for HD-DVD?

Simply that they are doing the best they can. I think HD DVD's reliance on Universal is going to be a problem for them as Universal is Hollywood's weakest studio.

Where is Jaws, JP and ET? Not a single titles on the list would be a good reason to justify buying into HD-DVD.

They cannot release those without permission from Mr. Spielberg. They have very few current releases that anyone cares wants (based on box office numbers).

It seems like Universal is just throwing some of the current HD-DVD early adopters a bone to keep them form bitching.

I would not be surprised to see them switch sides, but I do not think this is part of a strategy to do so.

/carmi

How else can you explain the lack of support for HD-DVD?

That list of movies they are going to release was an absolute joke.
Where are all of the big titles? Where is Jaws, JP and ET? Not a single titles on the list would be a good reason to justify buying into HD-DVD.

It seems like Universal is just throwing some of the current HD-DVD early adopters a bone to keep them form bitching.

What is also amazing is how many new theatrical releases are coming to only Blu-ray. The television and what you hear will begin to influence people just getting into HD right now.

"Available on DVD and Blu-ray disc" is what I hear all the time.
Warner and Paramount's titles are "Available on DVD and High Definition" - they don't say HD DVD or Blu-ray.

With all the big movies over the last year from Blu-ray exclusive studios, it's hard to argue against Blu-ray's inevitable success as the only HD format for the popular world.

Its out of the realm of possibility because Blu-ray has been selling way better than HD DVD. If anything, I would get rid of all the HD DVD inventory since there are less of them and they are selling slower.
I wasn't implying they were getting rid of inventory. Instead I was implying they are doing their part to ensure that BD becomes the only format by installing that much more software.

Honestly, though I doubt this is the case. Others have mentioned that similar tactics were used with DVD. Amazon may see BD as the emerging winner and wants to get out ahead of THEIR competition in the retail arena.

"Available on DVD and Blu-ray disc" is what I hear all the time.
Warner and Paramount's titles are "Available on DVD and High Definition" - they don't say HD DVD or Blu-ray.

Warner says that and has both logos side by side. (promoting both)

How else can you explain the lack of support for HD-DVD?

That list of movies they are going to release was an absolute joke.
Where are all of the big titles? Where is Jaws, JP and ET? Not a single titles on the list would be a good reason to justify buying into HD-DVD.

It seems like Universal is just throwing some of the current HD-DVD early adopters a bone to keep them form bitching.
I think that they are saving the better titles till the end of the year. (Universal and Warner for that matter) But hey no one knows the future, maybe your right. That 2008 CES will be very interesting to say the least.

Warner says that and has both logos side by side. (promoting both)

But they don't say HD-DVD or Blu-ray, all your hear is "hi definition" TV is half visual and half audio. Plus the advertisement of the logos are small as heck, it only says it right at the top of the box, which is much smaller than the picture and words that say available on "DVD and Hi-definition" which is usually right next to the boxes.

It's quite possible the average viewer didn't even see either logo but only heard "available on Hi-def"

Bob,

That list of movies they are going to release was an absolute joke.
Where are all of the big titles? Where is Jaws, JP and ET? Not a single titles on the list would be a good reason to justify buying into HD-DVD.

You really should try and refrain from imposing your views and tastes on everyone else. It is getting rather tiresome. Maybe YOU dont find anything on the list of value, I personally would buy half the list if I had a player. Admittedly the absence of Jaws or JP is something of a sore point with HD DVD buyers, the fact is that for many people, the list is not a joke.

Right now I think Universal just wants to see HD-DVD gone. It seems lately like the lack of activity and new big releases is part of their strategy to starve and lower HD-DVD sales.

On what basis do you think this besides wishful thinking. Based on your logic, Fox wants out of BD because they have delayed a bunch of titles. Yeah, I know the standard answer for that is "production issues" but if you want to say that why not say it for Universal, or the list of titles is a result of the management shake up at Universal. Why immediately assume that Universal is getting out of HD or at a minimum going neutral. You and beatboy should form a club.

Krinkle,

And you can bet that Universal is watching too.

And what do you think they are seeing? If you drop the price, you sell lots of titles. What the spike in rankings shows is the relatively low sales of discs of either format, such that selling a few thousand copies will boost the rankings.

It's more likely Universal sees all the sales they could be making to the PS3/BD installed base...

Their support of HD DVD should not cost them the millions of dollars they could make. I would certainly buy a BD50 release of King Kong with a PCM audio track, even though I already have the HD DVD (which is lacking an uncompressed audio track of ANY stripe, even if I could get anything other than the gimped DD5.1 out of my 360 add-on).

I think that they are saving the better titles till the end of the year. (Universal and Warner for that matter) But hey no one knows the future, maybe your right. That 2008 CES will be very interesting to say the least.

What better titles? That's the whole point. All Universals Mega Sellers are not coming anytime soon, most of these are Spielberg flicks.

All their other major blockbusters are all available on DVD and J6P is not going to want to replace them till the prices come way down.

So what is more likely? New Titles are so very important because of this because it's easier to justify to J6P to spend perhaps 5 or 10 bucks more to get the Hi-def version. With the sales going on you can pretty much get them at the same price these days.

It's much much harder to convince someone who already owns the DVD to spend another 20 bucks or more to replace it.

Universal frankly has sucked the last 5 years. IMO they have had only 1 halfway descent franchise in the Borne movies. The Blu-ray studios have a couple huge franchises and those will be coming out again this year.

If you look at 2006 box office numbers the Blu-ray exclusive studios account for 50%+ of all box office. I think Universal was around 11 or 12%.

Uxi,

Their support of HD DVD should not cost them the millions of dollars they could make

A few million dollars is not going to kill Universal, and is unlikely to get them to change their business plan. Besides, you have Stormprophet arguing that in general Universal sucks, and there are only a couple of movies worth buying. So, from that point of view, Universal isnt losing much money.

Uxi,



A few million dollars is not going to kill Universal, and is unlikely to get them to change their business plan. Besides, you have Stormprophet arguing that in general Universal sucks, and there are only a couple of movies worth buying. So, from that point of view, Universal isnt losing much money.

Well, they are still a piece of the pie. But not one I'm particularly interested in, I'm sure they make movies some people like, but IMO they haven't realeased anything since the Bourne Supremacy I would even bother getting on DVD.

Universal used to be the dominant studio in Holywood. If you simply look at the size of their library that's obvious. If I'm not mistaken their library is bigger than all the Blu-ray studios combined.

But since the majority of that library is from titles in the 40s, 50s, 60s, 70s, 80s that lack special effects and are not Hi-def centric it's not really that big of an advtange. Sure, it would have been for DVD. But not now, no one wants to buy a Casablanca they already have on DVD on HD-DVD, why? So I can see Black and White "crisper"?

You want to see Serenity, the Matrix, LOTR, these type of movies that really show off Hi-def.

Universal is no longer the dominant studio. Sony and Disney/Buena Vista are the biggest ones in terms of recent box office sales. (Disney has had the 1-2 punch of Pirates and a steady stream of Pixar movies for years now).

Stromprophet,

Our tastes simply differ. Right now, there are far more Universal titles I want than from Sony or Fox.

Serenity, the Matrix, LOTR

That is an odd list that you selected. All three will be on HD DVD, but only 2 of the 3 will be on BD.

A few million dollars maybe not. A few hundred million I'm sure they'll notice, which is what they can get for maybe a half dozen titles to just half of the BD install base. Especially when they already have the encodes done.

I think Universal does have some good HD titles, but one of the problems is that they've already released most of their top titles propping up HD DVD. Pretty much all that's left is classics (not necessarily the sort of movie one things of right away in regards to high definition, much less the younger demographic) and Speilberg's stuff...

Krinkle,

And what do you think they are seeing? If you drop the price, you sell lots of titles. What the spike in rankings shows is the relatively low sales of discs of either format, such that selling a few thousand copies will boost the rankings.

Again this sale is NOT 50% off regular Amazon prices. It is 50% off MAXIMUM retail price. This sale is only works out to about $5 off Amazon's regular prices, or around 20%.

I would also mention that the World's Fastest Indian is also available on HD-DVD at $14.95 right now on Amazon. However it is not doing too well in the rankings is it? This example disproves the hypothesis that HD-DVD would do this well if they had a sale. HD-DVD is on sale right now, and there have been HD-DVD sales in the past, its just that no one is buying!!

This is a Blu-ray only phenomenon and shows the power of the massive installed user base created by the launch of the PS3. It will only get worse for HD-DVD as the PS3 launches around the world.

Universal and their bosses are watching, new management does not want to be on the wrong side of the fence as Blu-ray begins to replace the old DVD format.

Many titles in Universal's catalog are an excellent fit for the PS3 "gamer" market. It is simply a good business decision for them to reach agreement with the BDA to start releasing titles on the winning high definition format.

I am confident we will see Universal go neutral by early 2008.

But since the majority of that library is from titles in the 40s, 50s, 60s, 70s, 80s that lack special effects and are not Hi-def centric

Cinema did not start when they started using CGI...

Words fail me when people on an avforum make comments like yours... it baffles me.

krinkle,

I would also mention that the World's Fastest Indian is also available on HD-DVD at $14.95 right now on Amazon. However it is not doing too well in the rankings is it? This example disproves the hypothesis that HD-DVD would do this well if they had a sale. HD-DVD is on sale right now, and there have been HD-DVD sales in the past, its just that no one is buying!!

First, the movie sucks. I cant believe that you are basing much of your position on 1 mediocre title. That is fanboyism at its best - congrats. Second, it is one movie. I am willing to bet that if a similar sale were offered on all HD DVD titles, you would see a similar surge sales for HD titles.

Uxi,

A few million dollars maybe not. A few hundred million I'm sure they'll notice, which is what they can get for maybe a half dozen titles to just half of the BD install base

I dont understand where you get a few hundred million (e.g., $300 million at a minimum). 500,000 ps3 buyers X 6 titles X $20 = 60,000,000.

OTOH hand, I sincerely doubt that 500,000 ps3 buyers would buy that many movies.

krinkle,



First, the movie sucks. I cant believe that you are basing much of your position on 1 mediocre title. That is fanboyism at its best - congrats. Second, it is one movie. I am willing to bet that if a similar sale were offered on all HD DVD titles, you would see a similar surge sales for HD titles.

Fanboyism? Pot, meet kettle....

The same movie is being offered at the same sale price ON BOTH FORMATS. The HD-DVD version isn't selling nearly as well. The fact that the title is mediocre is completely irrelevant.

500,000 ps3 buyers X 6 titles X $20 = 60,000,000.

OTOH hand, I sincerely doubt that 500,000 ps3 buyers would buy that many movies.

Where did you come up with 500,000 Playstation 3 consoles? I think your number is a bit low.

/carmi

krinkle,



First, the movie sucks. I cant believe that you are basing much of your position on 1 mediocre title. That is fanboyism at its best - congrats. Second, it is one movie. I am willing to bet that if a similar sale were offered on all HD DVD titles, you would see a similar surge sales for HD titles.

Uxi,



I dont understand where you get a few hundred million (e.g., $300 million at a minimum). 500,000 ps3 buyers X 6 titles X $20 = 60,000,000.

OTOH hand, I sincerely doubt that 500,000 ps3 buyers would buy that many movies.

At this moment in time it looks like we are talking about 5,000 Discs sold in the last 24 hours on Amazon. At an average price of 19 bucks. If we extrapolate that out over 21 days it is about 2,000,000 dollars in sales. 100,000 discs or so.

So no, it might not be on Universals Radar.

By at least half, but he's just counting North America (in which case he's still shorting ~150,000 units). I also specified the whole BD install base (which is largely the PS3 install base at this time, but that's still discounting a good number of standalones, who do buy movies).

First, the movie sucks.
"YOU SUCK!!!"

"Don't pass to this guy, he sucks!"

Whoa...

got a little carried away there. Sorry. :)

Of course you're entitled to your, albeit somewhat brash opinion, but I liked that movie. I wouldn't call it an all time favorite, but my wife and I thoroughly enjoyed it.

And since you had me questioning my own tastes, I checked it out on rotten tomatoes. It gets a 79%. That's pretty up there.

Good thing I don't rely on you for reviews. ;)

First, the movie sucks. I cant believe that you are basing much of your position on 1 mediocre title. That is fanboyism at its best - congrats. Second, it is one movie. I am willing to bet that if a similar sale were offered on all HD DVD titles, you would see a similar surge sales for HD titles.


1. The movie doesn't objectively 'suck.' It has a 79% Fresh ratio on the Tomatometer (http://www.rottentomatoes.com/m/worlds_fastest_indian/).

2. If it did suck it would suck equally on BD and HD DVD.

3. It appeals to the film-buff HD DVD demographic more than the popcorn-munching BD demographic.

4. The choice of discounted titles being much wider for BD than HD DVD, the BD version would tend to get overlooked.

Despite all that, the BD version outsells the HD DVD.

The psychological impact of 50% off is a big one. For instance, our local Bloomimgdales has an annual 75% off on Oriental rug sale. These rugs are marked down from their MSRP. A couple of years ago, we ended up buying one for $2500 that had been marked down from $10K. The deal seemed too good to pass up. However, we later found out that regular price for a similar rug in another oriental rug dealer was slightly lower! Yet, Bloomingdales is able to clear up hundreds if not thousands of rugs, with a 75% off offer that ends up more expensive than street prices!

At one time there used to be stored with permanent going out of business sale all over Manhatten - usually for electronics. Apparently, going out of business was the best way to stay in business. People will buy anything on sale - especially if it is half price :)

majortom,

Where did you come up with 500,000 Playstation 3 consoles?

50% of 1 million is 500,000 the last time I checked.

Sketcha,

Of course you're entitled to your, albeit somewhat brash opinion, but I liked that movie. I wouldn't call it an all time favorite, but my wife and I thoroughly enjoyed it.

I apologize. I thought the movie sucked, but I have criticized others for imposing their tastes on others, and I did the same. That was wrong, and for that I apologize.

Uxi,

I also specified the whole BD install base

I misread and assumed you meant just the ps3 base. I limited it to NA, as we are discussing amazon sales in NA.

Wet1,

Fanboyism? Pot, meet kettle....

Again, you need to learn to read. I have repeatedly said that I dont own EITHER format. I respond to what I see as errors in logic and reasoning. You may not agree with me, but you havent seen me say that HD DVD is better than BD.

The psychological impact of 50% off is a big one.
....

Apparently, going out of business was the best way to stay in business. People will buy anything on sale - especially if it is half price :)

I have to agree with you on this one. Still, it is a great way of moving discs for them and is good for us all as it may get some that had not yet started to buy shiny discs to do so and once they do, they may continue.

/carmi

The psychological impact of 50% off is a big one. For instance, our local Bloomimgdales has an annual 75% off on Oriental rug sale. These rugs are marked down from their MSRP. A couple of years ago, we ended up buying one for $2500 that had been marked down from $10K. The deal seemed too good to pass up. However, we later found out that regular price for a similar rug in another oriental rug dealer was slightly lower! Yet, Bloomingdales is able to clear up hundreds if not thousands of rugs, with a 75% off offer that ends up more expensive than street prices!

At one time there used to be stored with permanent going out of business sale all over Manhatten - usually for electronics. Apparently, going out of business was the best way to stay in business. People will buy anything on sale - especially if it is half price :)$2,500 for a rug? That's more than it would cost to carpet my entire house. And people think the PS3 is expensive?

I have more than a few crappy $5.99-$7.99 DVDs. I figure if I watched them at least once it would be just like renting from Blockbuster.

For HD discs my impulse buy limit is $19.99. Over that and I'd have to think about it. For anything over $30 I'd really have to be a fan of the movie, one of the actors or the director.

Sketcha,

I apologize. I thought the movie sucked, but I have criticized others for imposing their tastes on others, and I did the same. That was wrong, and for that I apologize.
No problem, dude. No need to apologize. I wasn't gonna' run home crying to Mommy or anything. I just disagree with your assessment.

I think, in the context of these discussions, it IS best to use box office figures, reviews and such, rather than our own opinions. Just because I liked the movie, doesn't, necessarily mean anyone is going to buy it on Blu-ray or HD DVD and so on.

Of course we can express our own, micro opinions, but they may not have anything to do with the format war, which, in this case appears to be the discussion at hand.

Take care

sketcha,

I didnt think you would be hurt or anything. I however, needed to apologize because I did something that I said shouldnt be done. I am an adult and respond appropriately when I have done something wrong.

The Wolrd Fastest Indian HD DVD isn't in stock on Amazon. So if you order it is suppose to show around mid april. I believe that generally instock movies selll better than future orders.

Adam

Wet1,



Again, you need to learn to read. I have repeatedly said that I dont own EITHER format. I respond to what I see as errors in logic and reasoning. You may not agree with me, but you havent seen me say that HD DVD is better than BD.
Fanboy George,

You may not own either format, but your posts have clearly been biased toward the HD-DVD camp for some time... hence, the irony of you calling the other poster a fanboy. ;)

$2,500 for a rug? That's more than it would cost to carpet my entire house. And people think the PS3 is expensive?

I have more than a few crappy $5.99-$7.99 DVDs. I figure if I watched them at least once it would be just like renting from Blockbuster.

For HD discs my impulse buy limit is $19.99. Over that and I'd have to think about it. For anything over $30 I'd really have to be a fan of the movie, one of the actors or the director.

Rusty, rugs in the $50-100K range are not too uncommon in this area :eek:

I have to agree with you on this one. Still, it is a great way of moving discs for them and is good for us all as it may get some that had not yet started to buy shiny discs to do so and once they do, they may continue.

/carmi

Absolutely! It's great for consumers to have 2 formats for precisely this format. I defend HD DVD because I want 2 formats. I am clearly better off because of this!!!!!

Trust me. studios will put out more content, better content and at lower price as long as we have 2 formats. With only one format even crap will sell at caviar prices!!!

sketcha,

I didnt think you would be hurt or anything. I however, needed to apologize because I did something that I said shouldnt be done. I am an adult and respond appropriately when I have done something wrong.
Roger. Very good.

How's Aiea, you bastard?!?! :mad:

:D :D :D

I love Hawaii! Almost everywhere you go, it smells like Plumeria. Got some under heat and light in the garage waiting for this freakin' winter to end. :mad: I would move there in heartbeat, if I could get my wife to leave her mommy's teat. :mad:

"Coming dear."

She must've heard me typing. Gotta' go.

:)

Absolutely! It's great for consumers to have 2 formats for precisely this format. I defend HD DVD because I want 2 formats. I am clearly better off because of this!!!!!

Trust me. studios will put out more content, better content and at lower price as long as we have 2 formats. With only one format even crap will sell at caviar prices!!!
Oh, here we go. :rolleyes:

So I guess that must've been what happened to DVD, then? You know, only one format? :)

People must've been starved for old, crappy movies back then, if that's all there was because the sales were like 5-10 times what HD optical's have been for the first year. If there's a market, the studios will fill it... AND they will have to compete with each other over price... just like they did back when there was only DVD.

Who loves ya', Plaz. ;)

sketcha,

How's Aiea, you bastard?!?!
It's nice. I work down by the Ala Moana mall. I am looking out my 18th story window at the Ocean, on a pretty clear day. :D


I love Hawaii! Almost everywhere you go, it smells like Plumeria. Got some under heat and light in the garage waiting for this freakin' winter to end. I would move there in heartbeat, if I could get my wife to leave her mommy's teat.

Well, it is interesting that you should say that. We moved back because my wife was born and raised here, and after 20 years on the mainland she missed home and we moved back. Plus her parents are having health probs. So we gave up two tenured professorships in Texas to move back. I dont regret the decision.

Absolutely! It's great for consumers to have 2 formats for precisely this format. I defend HD DVD because I want 2 formats. I am clearly better off because of this!!!!!

I agree that the material we see continues to be released with generally higher quality due to the format war. In the short term, we all benefit from the competition between the two formats.

Trust me. studios will put out more content, better content and at lower price as long as we have 2 formats. With only one format even crap will sell at caviar prices!!!
THIS assertion I have a slight issue with. With the current uncertainty plus the newness of both formats, studios are obviously reluctant to pull out the big guns, as the consumer base is divided and confused. Without the big draws, confusion continues, the market stays divided, people remain on the sidelines, and both formats languish in obscurity. There's also the issue of the fact that with limited availability, this is the best possible chance they have of making money on otherwise underperforming catalog titles.

While the format war does indeed keep the studios and manufacturers on their toes, bringing rapid maturation to both formats, I think it's folly to ignore the fact that the format war also hurts us in terms of volume of released content. Without assurances that they won't have warehouses full of obsolete discs, I think studios are going to remain circumspect about how much they commit to high definition in general.

Why do you think Warner has been so gung-ho about TotalHD? They love the idea because to them, every TotalHD disc is immune to obsolescence regardless of the outcome of the format war. The same is not true for consumers, who have to put up with double sided discs with no disc art and no touchable faces, and what will likely be higher disc costs as well.

sketcha,


It's nice. I work down by the Ala Moana mall. I am looking out my 18th story window at the Ocean, on a pretty clear day. :D
O.K., sorry I asked. I mean...

Good for you. :mad:

Well, it is interesting that you should say that. We moved back because my wife was born and raised here, and after 20 years on the mainland she missed home and we moved back. Plus her parents are having health probs. So we gave up two tenured professorships in Texas to move back. I dont regret the decision.

At least I can always fly to the tropics, I guess. The Caribbean is my favorite. For our honeymoon, I soloed a 36' cat all around the BVI for 14 days plus 2, bookend days on St. Thomas. Best time of our lives. The motto around there is "Different day, different bay."

Well best wishes to her folks.

Any more we should take to PM

Take care

sketcha,

Ok. Sounds like a great honeymoon though. My Dad loves the T and C down there.

The only reasonable alternative to competition is regulation. Absent competition you have either monopoly or regulated monopoly. Which would would choose to come up with the best product at the lowest price? If there is an opportunity for competition, guard it dearly. Maybe in a few years prices and technique will be at the place where further competition isn't needed, but it sure is producing results right now.

The only reasonable alternative to competition is regulation. Absent competition you have either monopoly or regulated monopoly. Which would would choose to come up with the best product at the lowest price? If there is an opportunity for competition, guard it dearly. Maybe in a few years prices and technique will be at the place where further competition isn't needed, but it sure is producing results right now.There's more competition between the Blu-ray studios than between the HD DVD studios. Check out the top grossing movies last year - the Blu-ray movies dominate the top of the list. Clearly they are putting out the best product the product the majority wants to see.

Now consider that Toshiba lacks any real competition in the HD DVD player market and all the other major name brand CEs are putting out blu-ray capable players and you'll see that Blu-ray is much more competitive.

There's more competition between the Blu-ray studios than between the HD DVD studios.
That's like saying there's price competition between record labels. There is competition between CD's, ipod, etc.

Why do you think Warner has been so gung-ho about TotalHD? They love the idea because to them, every TotalHD disc is immune to obsolescence regardless of the outcome of the format war.

They love them because they get they have IP in HD DVD, and this way they can get their royalties even on BD sales. Plus the royalties on the THD disc itself.

That's like saying there's price competition between record labels. There is competition between CD's, ipod, etc.There's competition between books, television, movies, and video games. So what?

There's price competition between LCD, plasma, DLP, LCoS, D-ILA, and CRT. But that isn't stopping purchases of or delaying the adoption of HDTV sets. You can watch the same content on any set you get.

However, the format war between Blu-ray and HD DVD is hindering the mass adoption of a high definition disc format. You can't watch all the HD discs out now unless you have a universal player which costs way more than the other single format players. So in this case competition, if both formats survive, will lead to universal players and combo discs resulting in higher, not lower, player and disc prices.

Why do you think Warner has been so gung-ho about TotalHD? They love the idea because to them, every TotalHD disc is immune to obsolescence regardless of the outcome of the format war.

I don't know, there is still the $. Since thy created the THD, not only will they get money for the HD DVD side and maybe the BD side but also for the THD (the process of combining.

There's competition between books, television, movies, and video games. So what?

There's price competition between LCD, plasma, DLP, LCoS, D-ILA, and CRT. But that isn't stopping purchases of or delaying the adoption of HDTV sets. You can watch the same content on any set you get.

However, the format war between Blu-ray and HD DVD is hindering the mass adoption of a high definition disc format. You can't watch all the HD discs out now unless you have a universal player which costs way more than the other single format players. So in this case competition, if both formats survive, will lead to universal players and combo discs resulting in higher, not lower, player and disc prices.
That's like saying there is competition between cars, ships, and airplanes. The competition within the group is much more important than competition between them. There are different delivery mechanisms or formats competing in the music industry, and in the movie industry there are different deliveries again -theater, DVD, cable, satellite, HD-DVD and BD and some others. There is competition within the TV display media as you say, but no way plasma owners should hope plasma should be the only technology.

Competition always results in lower costs and better quality. Can you give me an exception, where real competition drove up prices or produced lower quality (FCC auctions don't count - they are a tax raising (politicians like it), competition limiting (legacy operators love it), deepest pocket (no innovative startups, thankyou) exercise, and they have resulted in higher costs and lower quality)

That's like saying there is competition between cars, ships, and airplanes. The competition within the group is much more important than competition between them. There are different delivery mechanisms or formats competing in the music industry, and in the movie industry there are different deliveries again -theater, DVD, cable, satellite, HD-DVD and BD and some others. There is competition within the TV display media as you say, but no way plasma owners should hope plasma should be the only technology.

Competition always results in lower costs and better quality. Can you give me an exception, where real competition drove up prices or produced lower quality (FCC auctions don't count - they are a tax raising (politicians like it), competition limiting (legacy operators love it), deepest pocket (no innovative startups, thankyou) exercise, and they have resulted in higher costs and lower quality)

Actually, I'm now ready to finally admit that format competition has been good...





FOR HD DVD!!!

Everyone knows or should know that the PS3 would have been subsidized regardless. It's a gaming machine. No claim of subsidy can be made for any of the other BD players thus far.

But the Tosh OTOH...

According to this (http://www.engadget.com/2006/06/23/toshiba-taking-200-loss-on-each-hd-a1-sez-isuppli/), the HD-A1 costs about 700 clams to build, at least in the beginning. They appear to wholesale it for around $350 (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=7922651&&#post7922651). Really, that's a subsidy of $350, not $200. If not for Blu-ray, the Tosh should have retailed for more like a Grand.

I think all of you HD-A1 owners and HD DVD supporters owe a big debt of gratitude to Blu-ray.

Now would you like me to provide a link to the BDA for your appreciation emails, or can you guys all find that yourselves? ;)

:)

Competition always results in lower costs and better quality. Can you give me an exception, where real competition drove up prices or produced lower quality (FCC auctions don't count - they are a tax raising (politicians like it), competition limiting (legacy operators love it), deepest pocket (no innovative startups, thankyou) exercise, and they have resulted in higher costs and lower quality)Major League Baseball players.

sketcha,

I am a bit surprised, as That is an old link and was argued to death. Besides, when they did a similar analysis on the Sony BD or PS3 player, all the BD fanboys said it was full of crap, cause there was no way Sony was going to pay those prices for the parts.

I am a bit surprised, as That is an old link and was argued to death. Besides, when they did a similar analysis on the Sony BD or PS3 player, all the BD fanboys said it was full of crap, cause there was no way Sony was going to pay those prices for the parts.

that one was done by ML and it was full of crap. ML corrected it a few days later. And the reason it was noticed it was full of crap was that they did not even add the stuff up correctly. The funny thing was that there were many HD DVD supporters defending how 1+1=3

Toshiba made around 50K A1 that they may have subsidized. OTOH, iSuppli the same company found Sony subsidized the PS3 to the tune of 240 for part + marketing, freight and retail cost and intend to sell millions of units....

Now, iSuppli says the A1 cost $700 to make and the Sony is $840. For an extra $140 you get a game console, hdmi 1.3 and the 60GB hard drive. Also, PS3 uses the cell processor, the A1 was Pentium 4. Common logic says that they either over estimated the cost of the A1 or are under estimating the cost of the PS3.

Just for reference. Last Q, Sonys game div went from showing a profit of 400M to a loss of 400M. A reversal of 800M. During this time they shipped 1M PS3. Everything else pretty much stayed the same....so is the PS3 significantly subsidized? Common sense would say, yes.

Competition is good...the xbox set the price ceiling for the PS3.

Toshiba made around 50K A1 that they may have subsidized. OTOH, iSuppli the same company found Sony subsidized the PS3 to the tune of 240 for part + marketing, freight and retail cost and intend to sell millions of units....

Now, iSuppli says the A1 cost $700 to make and the Sony is $840. For an extra $140 you get a game console, hdmi 1.3 and the 60GB hard drive. Also, PS3 uses the cell processor, the A1 was Pentium 4. Common logic says that they either over estimated the cost of the A1 or are under estimating the cost of the PS3.

Just for reference. Last Q, Sonys game div went from showing a profit of 400M to a loss of 400M. A reversal of 800M. During this time they shipped 1M PS3. Everything else pretty much stayed the same....so is the PS3 significantly subsidized? Common sense would say, yes.

Competition is good...the xbox set the price ceiling for the PS3.
Thanks Plaz, but I never said the PS3 wasn't "significantly subsidized." We all know that game consoles are often subsidized and the PS3 would have been with or without a format war.

Not many disc players are, though.

You basically skipped over my point which spoke to the bottom line for consumers, though you did, apparently shore up my assertion that the A1 was subsidized.

The PS3 would have been subsidized either way.

The A1 was subsidized due to the battle with Blu-ray.

You've been so determined to garner a big "Thanks" to HD DVD for the benefits of competition. I believe, clearly the thanks should go to Blu-ray from HD DVD fans.

No?

Now, iSuppli says the A1 cost $700 to make and the Sony is $840. For an extra $140 you get a game console, hdmi 1.3 and the 60GB hard drive. Also, PS3 uses the cell processor, the A1 was Pentium 4. Common logic says that they either over estimated the cost of the A1 or are under estimating the cost of the PS3.

Oh and as you HD DVD supporters are so fond of repeating...

1. The PS3 has no upscaling and appears not to be able to handle 3:2
2. The PS3 has no analog 5.1 outs. That should save a few bucks
3. No remote control for the base price
4. Comes with no HDMI cable (I believe)
5. And is probably lacking some other stuff I forgot. ;)

I'm sure there is some solid savings from these missing components as compared to the A1, eh?

It would be interesting to see how long this sales momentum lasts. The sale is on until March 23. My guess is that the surge in sales will peter out much sooner than that and we will be back to status quo by end of next week.

Amazon by itself means nothing. On DVD Empire the situation is reversed, with HD DVD on top in the last week:

http://img441.imageshack.us/img441/5337/dvdempire8marchwz3.jpg

http://dvdempire.com/Content/Features/hidef_wars.asp?view=1

I bet the Amazon sale will make HD DVD look pretty good on DVDempire.

The one good thing about DVDempire is they are comparing actual sales rather than rankings. The bad thing is that it is a relatively small sample I would think.

Amazon by itself means nothing. On DVD Empire the situation is reversed, with HD DVD on top in the last week:


"Week of Mar 6" is still open. 2/13 preorders haven't been logged yet.

Apart from that, dvdempire is bound to lose Blu-ray sales while the amazon sale is on.

Major League Baseball players.
Good one. Add rock and movie stars. Mass hysteria isn't a balanced market.

Thanks Plaz, but I never said the PS3 wasn't "significantly subsidized." We all know that game consoles are often subsidized and the PS3 would have been with or without a format war. Not many disc players are, though.
You basically skipped over my point which spoke to the bottom line for consumers, though you did, apparently shore up my assertion that the A1 was subsidized.
The PS3 would have been subsidized either way.
The A1 was subsidized due to the battle with Blu-ray.
You've been so determined to garner a big "Thanks" to HD DVD for the benefits of competition. I believe, clearly the thanks should go to Blu-ray from HD DVD fans.
No?
No. The A1 was a limited production run. The PS3 will be subsidized for years.

Can anyone explain to me why the Firth Element is currently in the 60s? Wasn't that one of the worse looking blu-ray disks out there, or did I miss the release?

Adam

No. The A1 was a limited production run.
Oh yeah, they only sold a couple. The A1 can probably only claim like 75% of the presently installed, HD DVD, standalone base, huh.

Oh and as you HD DVD supporters are so fond of repeating...

1. The PS3 has no upscaling and appears not to be able to handle 3:2
2. The PS3 has no analog 5.1 outs. That should save a few bucks
3. No remote control for the base price
4. Comes with no HDMI cable (I believe)
5. And is probably lacking some other stuff I forgot. ;)

I'm sure there is some solid savings from these missing components as compared to the A1, eh?

If by 3:2 you mean from 1080 to 720, you'd be wrong. Most HDTVs will accept the 1080 output from a PS3 and put it in 720.

Upscaling is all relative, the PS3 can do it, it's just a matter of whether Sony is going to focus on providing that in firmware. They are going to for games because there are quite a few people that have a 1080i/480p/480i set that get downscaled on 720p games to 480p.

Whether or not they add scaling for DVDs is a completely different question.

As far as price coming down. They are already switching to 65nm processing which will save them as much as 50 dollars, and they also are taking out the Emotion chip and providing a software solution (i.e. the PS3 will emulate PS2 games without the chip via downloaded software from the playstation netwrok) and that is another 30 dollars I think.

I suspect they may be able to lower the losses to 160 from 241 by the end of March if all these processes become standard to new PS3s by then. The emotion chip removal will be standard by the end of the month for Japan and NA as well.

If by 3:2 you mean from 1080 to 720, you'd be wrong. Most HDTVs will accept the 1080 output from a PS3 and put it in 720.

Upscaling is all relative, the PS3 can do it, it's just a matter of whether Sony is going to focus on providing that in firmware. They are going to for games because there are quite a few people that have a 1080i/480p/480i set that get downscaled on 720p games to 480p.

Whether or not they add scaling for DVDs is a completely different question.

As far as price coming down. They are already switching to 65nm processing which will save them as much as 50 dollars, and they also are taking out the Emotion chip and providing a software solution (i.e. the PS3 will emulate PS2 games without the chip via downloaded software from the playstation netwrok) and that is another 30 dollars I think.

I suspect they may be able to lower the losses to 160 from 241 by the end of March if all these processes become standard to new PS3s by then. The emotion chip removal will be standard by the end of the month for Japan and NA as well.
1. 3:2 Pulldown

2. None of the rest is in question. I think you may be barking up the wrong tree, Strom.

I wonder, why would Sony want the PS3 to be able to upscale DVD's real good? I would think they would be just as happy if people saw a really big difference between DVD's and BD's that were played on the PS3, even if it was on a small set from far away.

I just not sure that making the PS3 a good upscaling DVD player is a priority for Sony, given that it may hurt the sells of BDs.

I wonder, why would Sony want the PS3 to be able to upscale DVD's real good? I would think they would be just as happy if people saw a really big difference between DVD's and BD's that were played on the PS3, even if it was on a small set from far away.

I just not sure that making the PS3 a good upscaling DVD player is a priority for Sony, given that it may hurt the sells of BDs.
Well upscaling is only helpful with an HDTV, and one that can't do a very good job on its own, for that matter.

It could, still be a strategy, though. And it wouldn't be a bad one as most PS3 users are not going to know what upscaling is. All they'll see is the big difference (if the display's scaler sucks,) like you said.

However, since the PS3 has issues scaling its games properly, I think it was more likely a casualty of the rush to production.

But they don't say HD-DVD or Blu-ray, all your hear is "hi definition" TV is half visual and half audio. Plus the advertisement of the logos are small as heck, it only says it right at the top of the box, which is much smaller than the picture and words that say available on "DVD and Hi-definition" which is usually right next to the boxes.

It's quite possible the average viewer didn't even see either logo but only heard "available on Hi-def"
Thank you. You understood exactly what I was saying.

Upscaling will come in PS3 in 6 months, there's no technical issues, it's not clever to sit on that argument forever.

If by 3:2 you mean from 1080 to 720, you'd be wrong. Most HDTVs will accept the 1080 output from a PS3 and put it in 720.


:eek:

Upscaling will come in PS3 in 6 months, there's no technical issues, it's not clever to sit on that argument forever.
How many P$3 owners are watching DVDs in a little square in the middle of their display? :confused:

The displays upscale, and in fact most do it quite well.

Oh yeah, they only sold a couple. The A1 can probably only claim like 75% of the presently installed, HD DVD, standalone base, huh.

And they've now stopped making the A1, so the poster was right - it was a limited production run.

And they've now stopped making the A1, so the poster was right - it was a limited production run.
Roger that.

Can we agree that the A1 was, possibly the only standalone player, ever (at least that I've personally heard of,) that WAS subsidized and to the tune of the majority of the HD DVD standalone sales, to this point?

Can we agree that the A1 was, possibly the only standalone player, ever (at least that I've personally heard of,) that WAS subsidized and to the tune of the majority of the HD DVD standalone sales, to this point?Well, David Chaplin, manager of the HD DVD Mobile Experience said as much to CE Pro (http://www.cepro.com/news/editorial/17509.html).
Selling HD DVD players at a loss -- something that the Blu-ray camp questions the feasibility of -- doesn't seem to phase Chaplin. "That's just the way it is," he said.

How many P$3 owners are watching DVDs in a little square in the middle of their display? :confused:

I get full 1920 x 1080 to my 60" SXRD unless it's a wider aspect ratio. :shrug: And I still get the bitrate meter and codec display. :D

And the grays aren't all washed out like they are with SD's on my M$ 360...

But then I still use my progressive-scan 5-disc carousel for regular DVD's (not that I've watched any in the last 6 months except the LOTR EE's and Star Wars SE DVDs, mostly to test the PS3 and it's DTS-ES/DD-EX but ended up watching the rest.

And the grays aren't all washed out like they are with SD's on my M$ 360....


I'm just curious, how do grays get washed out? Do you mean the gray scale? I've never heard anyone describe only gray's as being washed out.

What is the next title that can get in the top 10?

PotC2 is already released on DVD, but it was #1 in 2006, grossing 423M compared to 167M of CR. If this was a day and date release with DVD, given how CR did (6-7), it would be a shoo in for a top5.

But given the worldwide popularity of this movie, PotC2 is going to sell a lot of highdef disks.

Night at the Museum did 245M and is same date as DVD? I think that is another candidate for top5.

If we wait until end of the year, new BD exclusives - PotC3, Spidey3 could be interesting to watch as well (top5 is guaranteed for both these, based on CR performance) --- as long as their releases are spaced out a couple of weeks, we will likely to see quite a few BD amazon top5s.

Until the amazon sale and CR moved as high as it did, I thought that the advance would be slower, perhaps 4 and then 5 in top 100, now I expect that 2 or 3 BD titles taking up top 10 are certainly possible. That there is so much buying when the price is right is a very positive sign, before that, noone even knew if there is any significant demand for these highdef movies on shiny disk at any price.

But who knows how this will unfold? Don't forget that the DVD versions will sell a lot more disks, meaning if they are all released the same time, it will be more difficult to reach top 10 for those weeks when there are WS DVD disks of the same title (at least for a few more years).

Well upscaling is only helpful with an HDTV, and one that can't do a very good job on its own, for that matter.

It could, still be a strategy, though. And it wouldn't be a bad one as most PS3 users are not going to know what upscaling is. All they'll see is the big difference (if the display's scaler sucks,) like you said.

However, since the PS3 has issues scaling its games properly, I think it was more likely a casualty of the rush to production.

I would imagine that the ability to upscale DVDs should fall under the “all-in-one and better than the 360” Sony PS3 mantra. How can the PS3 be the superior set-top-box if it doesn’t upscale the hundreds of DVDs that its user base already owns?

One could also argue that a large portion of the PS3 market (those that are still using SDTVs) may be inclined to purchase a 3rd tier HDTV. If that is the case then the vaunted Cell Processor should be more than capable of performing better upscaling than a 3rd tier internal TV scaler. I do agree that the move to rush out the PS3 is probably the culprit for the inability to upscale.

[total speculation] Sony has to want a do-over on the PS3 launch. I think if they would’ve delayed the release by six to nine months it would have been beneficial to both Blu-ray and the PS3 in the long term. BDA members would have been able to reap the rewards of early adopters forced to buy their $800+ stand-alone units instead of competing with the 20 Gig PS3. Sony would have been capable of releasing the system with some of these bugs worked out and the PS3 would have hit the shelves with much better games and BD support. The Sony fan boys would have stayed in the PS2 camp over Christmas 2006 knowing that the PS3 would be coming in June. It's likely that the additional PS2 sales would have meant another total profit quarter for SCE instead of using PS2 profits to subsidize PS3 losses. [/total speculation]

I would imagine that the ability to upscale DVDs should fall under the “all-in-one and better than the 360” Sony PS3 mantra. How can the PS3 be the superior set-top-box if it doesn’t upscale the hundreds of DVDs that its user base already owns?

One could also argue that a large portion of the PS3 market (those that are still using SDTVs) may be inclined to purchase a 3rd tier HDTV. If that is the case then the vaunted Cell Processor should be more than capable of performing better upscaling than a 3rd tier internal TV scaler. I do agree that the move to rush out the PS3 is probably the culprit for the inability to upscale.

It may just be that Sony doesn't care about upscaling. They don't seem to do a very good job at it. I have a Sony 60" SXRD1, and every upscaling player I've tried, Oppo, A1, Neuneo (via component), has done a better job. You'ld think a $5K TV would do better at it, but that doesn't seem to be the case.
J

It may just be that Sony doesn't care about upscaling. They don't seem to do a very good job at it. I have a Sony 60" SXRD1, and every upscaling player I've tried, Oppo, A1, Neuneo (via component), has done a better job. You'ld think a $5K TV would do better at it, but that doesn't seem to be the case.
J
It's probably not upscaling but deinterlacing that is the problem. Most TVs scale progressive materials (480P, 720P) very well, but only a few of them will deinterlace properly for 480i. Even fewer know how to make 1080i into 1080P and then to 768P... They usually go for always 540P->768P if they're conservative and they do 1080P always if they're overly aggressive. The ones that can decide on a pixel by pixel basis of which field to pick is rare.

To do proper scaling with interlaced 1080i material, a TV first has to deinterlace it to 1080P, and then scale it to the native resolution. If the TV can take 480P, it will almost always do an amazing job of scaling that to 768P (most common native resolution).

That is, assuming the deinterlacing to 480P was done correctly and the telecine stuff was handled correctly as well. But that's the job of the DVD player.

There are upscaling progressive DVD players that are marketed to be good at upscaling and these ones tend to be more aggressive in how they deinterlace. Since they target movie sources, they will almost always err on the side ot 24P as the frame rate and proceed to choose to lay down their pixels that way, the best way to trip up such players is to feed it a 60i material that has slow vertical panning for buildings with window panes --- they almost always artifact in checkerboard patterns at the window panes.

There are better deinterlacing implementations, but some of these are just too damn complicated to push out when everyone is clamoring for $50 players.

I would imagine that the ability to upscale DVDs should fall under the “all-in-one and better than the 360” Sony PS3 mantra. How can the PS3 be the superior set-top-box if it doesn’t upscale the hundreds of DVDs that its user base already owns?

One could also argue that a large portion of the PS3 market (those that are still using SDTVs) may be inclined to purchase a 3rd tier HDTV. If that is the case then the vaunted Cell Processor should be more than capable of performing better upscaling than a 3rd tier internal TV scaler. I do agree that the move to rush out the PS3 is probably the culprit for the inability to upscale.

[total speculation] Sony has to want a do-over on the PS3 launch. I think if they would’ve delayed the release by six to nine months it would have been beneficial to both Blu-ray and the PS3 in the long term. BDA members would have been able to reap the rewards of early adopters forced to buy their $800+ stand-alone units instead of competing with the 20 Gig PS3. Sony would have been capable of releasing the system with some of these bugs worked out and the PS3 would have hit the shelves with much better games and BD support. The Sony fan boys would have stayed in the PS2 camp over Christmas 2006 knowing that the PS3 would be coming in June. It's likely that the additional PS2 sales would have meant another total profit quarter for SCE instead of using PS2 profits to subsidize PS3 losses. [/total speculation]
It does upscaling as of May 24. :p
http://www.gaming-age.com/news/2007/5/23-52

Good news for PS3 owners, but I just wanted to lighten the mood by ridiculing the press release. :D

The capability to upscale DVDs to HD quality is a feature normally only associated with top range DVD players

"Top range" would be defined as "DVD players costing in excess of $40"?