I really think that both the BDA and HD-DVD groups need to work on the studios to help get consumers to move to HD.

I personally think the best way to do that, would be to release the HD disks 1 week before the SD releases. I think that would really get people's notice. I could see all kinds of people suddenly asking what hd-dvd and blu-ray were and actually giving a poop. :)

Good idea.
Bonus content only for the HD version is also another idea.
How about comparable prices?

I'd like comparable prices and bonus content, but as this would require extra effort on the studios part, I thought delaying the SD release a week would be a good start.

How about using a game machine as a trojan horse?

How about using a game machine as a trojan horse?

This is obviously working if today is any indication.

How about using a game machine as a trojan horse?

How about offering at least one combo disc each release date at or below DVD prices.

Universal players (fixes the $ony/Uni stalemate) and same day releases at the price of the DVD.

How about using a game machine as a trojan horse?
Trojan horse? Brilliant!

I think the early release is a great idea !It has a win win incentive attached .

Art

would be to release the HD disks 1 week before the SD releases.Brilliant! Innovative! It'll attract a ton of free press! Make people sit up and take notice! Push some fence sitters to adopt early!
And... sadly it'll never happen.

eight,

This is obviously working if today is any indication.

It is? Hollywood reporter just released the week 1 sales of departed

BD 23,000
Hd 15,000

If over a million PS3s is working like a charm to propel BD, then why did they only sell 23,000 discs?

It is not a good idea to release early really.

The reason is that advertising and promotion are timed for the release date. Releasing early would simply dilute this effort and confuse the issue.


Apart from getting rid of the format war (which is the overriding issue), nextgen needs the following studio practices:

1. Reliable day-and-date nextgen release with DVD and with all features, and with full promotion.
2. A supply of sturdy catalog titles at catalog title prices. (Need not be the big blockbusters BTW.) The Amazon sale is proving that people will buy catalog titles on nextgen if the price is attractive.

How about same day Cinema, DVD and Cable release (http://www.themovieblog.com/archives/2005/09/soderbergh_plans_same_day_cinema_dvd_and_cable_release.html) ?

It is? Hollywood reporter just released the week 1 sales of departed

BD 23,000
Hd 15,000

If over a million PS3s is working like a charm to propel BD, then why did they only sell 23,000 discs?

This is where I don't understand movie studios. If it takes 10 millions of hardware units sold to end up selling the same number of titles as another type of hardware that would require only 3 millions to achieve the same numbers, what's in it for them ? They're all doing Sony a favor as far as I can see, and helping a competitor in the process. Strange happenings in the shadows, evidently.

This is where I don't understand movie studios. If it takes 10 millions of hardware units sold to end up selling the same number of titles as another type of hardware that would require only 3 millions to achieve the same numbers, what's in it for them ? Selling movies? Do you think RCA's CED should have won over VHS because they had higher attach rates than expected, but sold less hardware than expected? If Sony is willing to provide the hardware (customer base), why wouldn't the studios consider how many discs they can sell as the highest factor?

Seriously, maybe somebody here who believes that the attach rates are the most important part (not total sales) can explain to me why RCA's CED format went away so early.

I would still like to see what "The Departed" did on DVD compared to maybe 100 million players out there. If that number is right, then 2.3% would be 2.3 million sold. Anybody know if they sold that many in their first week?

--Darin

This is where I don't understand movie studios. If it takes 10 millions of hardware units sold to end up selling the same number of titles as another type of hardware that would require only 3 millions to achieve the same numbers, what's in it for them ?One more question. Do you think the movie studios would be against Microsoft putting an HD DVD drive in every XBOX360 and sending an add-on to every current XBOX360 owner in the US for free? It would kill the attach rates and by your logic it would seem that they would be upset by something like that, when just the opposite is true.

--Darin

darin,

Seriously, maybe somebody here who believes that the attach rates are the most important part (not total sales) can explain to me why RCA's CED format went away so early.

I doubt few believe attach rate is the most important, but it is important from a studios point of view.

You seem to be of the opinion that the ONLY thing that matters is total volume, and that simply isnt the case.

The studios are looking for a revenue stream - essentially they want to resell their catalog.

If there is a low attach rate, that implies that sales are hit or miss. Essentially the studio probably sells alot of copies of a few movies. But what happens when those movies dry up.

On the other hand, a higher attach rate implies a steady stream of sales. This supplies more consistency in sales and some stability.

So, while you may discount attach rate, it is important and has implications for long term sales.

I would still like to see what "The Departed" did on DVD compared to maybe 100 million players out there. If that number is right, then 2.3% would be 2.3 million sold. Anybody know if they sold that many in their first week?

Your 100 million is the wrong number. Many, if not most, families have more than one DVD player. A family isnt going to buy a copy for each player they own. You need to find an estimate of the number of families with DVD players.

darin,



I doubt few believe attach rate is the most important, but it is important from a studios point of view.

You seem to be of the opinion that the ONLY thing that matters is total volume, and that simply isnt the case.

The studios are looking for a revenue stream - essentially they want to resell their catalog.

If there is a low attach rate, that implies that sales are hit or miss. Essentially the studio probably sells alot of copies of a few movies. But what happens when those movies dry up.

On the other hand, a higher attach rate implies a steady stream of sales. This supplies more consistency in sales and some stability.

So, while you may discount attach rate, it is important and has implications for long term sales.



Your 100 million is the wrong number. Many, if not most, families have more than one DVD player. A family isnt going to buy a copy for each player they own. You need to find an estimate of the number of families with DVD players.

I think you got it backwards. Attach rate is meaningless if volume is higher. It doesnt matter what percentage of PS3 owners by the BD departed if its outselling the HD version. Even as more HD players are sold, so will more BD players and more PS3s. And since their are so many PS3 owners who didnt like or buy the Departed in the first week there is a good chance they are buying something else and may eventually buy it. But with so many players there are so many people that are buying so many different titles. Look what happened over at amazon for this 50% off sale.

I doubt few believe attach rate is the most important, but it is important from a studios point of view.

You seem to be of the opinion that the ONLY thing that matters is total volume, and that simply isnt the case.In the long run what matters is total volume. The attach rates are only relevant when looked at in an intelligent way, not some of the ignorant ways that seem to be common around here recently.

If you want to side with:
This is where I don't understand movie studios. If it takes 10 millions of hardware units sold to end up selling the same number of titles as another type of hardware that would require only 3 millions to achieve the same numbers, what's in it for them ?then you should accept that right now it is taking Microsoft about 4 times as many XBOX360s to sell enough attachments for it to sell probably half as many copies of "The Departed" as Sony was able to sell with 1/4th as many PS3s. People can play games like that, but it seems that instead they want to use this attach rate thing while ignoring how many XBOX360s Microsoft has had to sell to lead to those movie sales. I bet that Toshiba standalones accounted for about 7,000 or less sales of "The Departed" in those first week numbers and they can use the excuse that they didn't sell enough standalones to cause more sales than that, but it wouldn't put them on very good ground.

If you were a studio exec would you have told the studio that CED was the better format to support over VHS because of the attach rates for it?

Do you think the Amazon sale would have caused nearly as many sales if BD had a small user base with a high attach rate already?

--Darin

Not attach rates again...

Really high attach rates + fairly low overall volume is a bad thing if you are looking for mass market success. Enthusiast/niche products follow that trend. Market leaders have moderate attach rates with high volume.

Think about it: do you actually expect J6P to buy as many discs as an early adopter? As long as overall volume sales are increasing, *any* of the manufacturers will be quite happy to see the attach rate per unit time slowly decline. It means the public at large is getting involved. Take how many discs an AV enthusiast buys in a year and add it to the number of discs your average person buys in a year, then divide by two. That's where you want your attach rate to be.

That said, attach rates at this stage are all but meaningless as they are too difficult to interpret (overall sales too low, PS3 factor, etc.). Any conclusions drawn from attach rate on either side are just hot air.

This is where I don't understand movie studios. If it takes 10 millions of hardware units sold to end up selling the same number of titles as another type of hardware that would require only 3 millions to achieve the same numbers, what's in it for them ? They're all doing Sony a favor as far as I can see, and helping a competitor in the process. Strange happenings in the shadows, evidently.

I'm guessing other Hollywood studios might reason that even though Sony is a competitor studio they are footing the bill by dedicating the PS3 and also bearing the cost to intro BD50 on top of R&D, advertising and sales promotitions.

In the final analysis trying to push consumers from dvd to high def is going to cost somebody and let's not forget that the new formats are also Hollywood's hope for eventually defeating disk piracy (good luck with all that). So Fox/Disney and to a lesser extent Paramount/Warner probably figure if Sony wants to pay the cost to introduce high-drm, urr high-def then let them do it.

darin,

In the long run what matters is total volume. The attach rates are only relevant when looked at in an intelligent way, not some of the ignorant ways that seem to be common around here recently.

Look at it this way. If you were a studio at this point in time, would you rather sell 1 million copies of POTC, and no copies of 4 other movies or, would you rather sell 500,000 copies total of 5 different movies, some new and some catalog.

It is a difficult call because that pattern tells you something different than looking at just overall volume. The first option, although selling more discs, tells the studio that HD optical formats may not be overly viable if the only movies they can sell are the big blockbusters. Yes, they sold more dics, but in terms of producing a revenue stream, it may not be viable.

On the other hand, the other option, sold less discs, but tells the studio that it may be viable because they can sell a wide variety of titles.

This is what I mean by looking at attach rates.

This is what I mean by looking at attach rates.Okay. That goes way beyond looking at attach rates without considering the movies and other complicating factors, which is what I am mostly referring to. Your example just seems to me like more evidence that just dividing the total number of sales by the number of players (especially when some are so multipurpose) can be very misleading as far as how well each side is doing. In your example the studio that has blockbusters may be happy while the studio that makes lower peforming movies might not be. It seems to me that we are in agreement that, "The attach rates are only relevant when looked at in an intelligent way ..." and that it can get complicated. Just like taking a strategy that leads to a lower attach rate can mean more discs sold and vis versa.

--Darin

If over a million PS3s is working like a charm to propel BD, then why did they only sell 23,000 discs?

well I have a PS3 and did not buy it, does that mean I did not buy other movies?

Look at it this way. If you were a studio at this point in time, would you rather sell 1 million copies of POTC, and no copies of 4 other movies or, would you rather sell 500,000 copies total of 5 different movies, some new and some catalog.

the problem is that your example does not match reality.
if that was the case then BD would not be outselling HD DVD.

attach rate for DVD is pointless because many households have more then one player and they not gonna buy the same dvd for each of the players.

As for the low attach rate for PS3 buyers, could easy be explained that many of those who buy ps3 for games, are people that download movies. (how else can they afford PS3 games) ;)

Sure some have buyed the PS3 for bluray. Its the cheapest bluray player out there.

But my conclusion is that a great deal of PS3 buyers aint a big DVD consumer group.

darin,

Look at it this way. If you were a studio at this point in time, would you rather sell 1 million copies of POTC, and no copies of 4 other movies or, would you rather sell 500,000 copies total of 5 different movies, some new and some catalog.

It is a difficult call because that pattern tells you something different than looking at just overall volume. The first option, although selling more discs, tells the studio that HD optical formats may not be overly viable if the only movies they can sell are the big blockbusters. Yes, they sold more dics, but in terms of producing a revenue stream, it may not be viable.

On the other hand, the other option, sold less discs, but tells the studio that it may be viable because they can sell a wide variety of titles.

This is what I mean by looking at attach rates.

Mass market consumers buy blockbuster movies. That is why an overly high attach rate is bad. As I've said, market researchers KNOW what enthusiast attach rates look like vs. mass market attach rates. I'll bet you the attach rate for LD was much higher than DVD for quite a while. Nobody used this as an argument that we should all switch to LD.