still rumor... but just picked this up from vgcharts.

sony going for the kill?

http://vgcharts.org/news/news.php?id=136

I don't expect Toshiba to roll over either. Ain't competition great? :D

still rumor... but just picked this up from vgcharts.

sony going for the kill?

http://vgcharts.org/news/news.php?id=136

This is from the article you linked said-

On Monday, Sony Electronics President and Chief Operating Officer Stan Glasgow said the company will drop prices on its Blu-ray players significantly this year, possibly as low as $299, which could give Sony an even greater edge in the format war. Currently Blu-ray players retail for $999, compared with HD-DVD players, which retail for $499.


This is what he really said-

Sony Electronics COO Stan Glasgow explained that he expects the price cuts to drive volume sales, saying "if you look at the history of DVD, $299 to $399, that's when sales really took off."

Notice, nothing about this year.

http://bluray.highdefdigest.com/news/show/Industry_Forecasts/Hardware/Sony/Sony_Announces_New_$599_Blu-ray_Player_Predicts_Further_Price_Cuts_and_10x_Sales_Growth_ for_2007/493

I just want one with built in DTS-HDMA and Dolby True-HD decoders and 7.1 analog outs. Hell I would forfeit the 1080p if it had those. Owe and maybe it can actually decode BD-J as well!

This is from the article you linked said-

On Monday, Sony Electronics President and Chief Operating Officer Stan Glasgow said the company will drop prices on its Blu-ray players significantly this year, possibly as low as $299, which could give Sony an even greater edge in the format war. Currently Blu-ray players retail for $999, compared with HD-DVD players, which retail for $499.


This is what he really said-

Sony Electronics COO Stan Glasgow explained that he expects the price cuts to drive volume sales, saying "if you look at the history of DVD, $299 to $399, that's when sales really took off."

Notice, nothing about this year.

http://bluray.highdefdigest.com/news/show/Industry_Forecasts/Hardware/Sony/Sony_Announces_New_$599_Blu-ray_Player_Predicts_Further_Price_Cuts_and_10x_Sales_Growth_ for_2007/493

thanks for the input, i'll let the vgchart people know. and edit my title

Sony JUST announced a $599 Blu Ray player and you're already thinking about $299 by the end of this year???

http://reviews.cnet.com/4520-11225_7-6537943-1.html

"Last Friday we reported on a quote from TV Week that Sony President and COO Stan Glasgow said Sony had plans to cut prices on its Blu-ray players to $299 by the end of the year. Well, don't update your Christmas list just yet. According to a Sony representative, Glasgow was misquoted. What Glasgow said, apparently, was that he felt the $299 price would be the tipping point where the average consumer would start to consider buying a Blu-ray player. Indeed, the Sony spokesman went on to specify that the company has no plans to roll out a Blu-ray player at that price point in 2007. That makes a lot more sense considering that Sony just announced a $600 Blu-ray player for this summer, and Glasgow basically said the same thing in an interview with CNET in January.

While the clarification makes more sense, we're not quite sure if we agree with Glasgow's assessment that $299 will be a tipping point for Blu-ray. While the price of the player may not be prohibitive, you still need to buy Blu-ray movies to get a high-definition picture--and the idea of rebuying movies in HD seemed to bother a lot of CNET users in our Screening Room forum. On the other hand, $299 is probably the price point where it might start making sense to buy a standard format Blu-ray player over a $500 20GB PlayStation 3. No matter what, Blu-ray and HD DVD still have a ways to go before they can convince the average consumer to make the high-def jump."

I have always said first format with a $300 player wins.

still rumor... but just picked this up from vgcharts.

sony going for the kill?

http://vgcharts.org/news/news.php?id=136

Stan Glasgow has already confirm that SONY has no plan to release $299 BD players in 2007 !! :)

I have always said first format with a $300 player wins.
HD DVD will come out first with a $299 player, street and retail.

HD DVD will come out first with a $299 player, street and retail.

299 was the tipping point without a format war. Clearly the price will have to be lower if the war is not yet decided by then. (Though the way things look, the war may well be decided before we see the 299 player.)

I have always said first format with a $300 player wins.

It still isn't going to matter if only three major studios are supporting it.

It still isn't going to matter if only three major studios are supporting it.

yeah we know, now rest in peace ;)

It still isn't going to matter if only three major studios are supporting it.

You are bang on the money

Mum and Dad aint going to launch 300 bucks into a machine that cant do Disney for the kids ;)

He was misquoted
......whooops!

....however, did he not acknowledge when a player hits $299-$399 sales will take off? I wonder if he disagree's with corporate strategy that the PS3 and exclusive content is enough?

I just want one with built in DTS-HDMA and Dolby True-HD decoders and 7.1 analog outs. Hell I would forfeit the 1080p if it had those. Owe and maybe it can actually decode BD-J as well!

That would be my position, I don't care about the price.

That would be my position, I don't care about the price.Yes, but I do! (and I suspect J6P will too).
I am a huge Disney fan and am quite disappointed that I can't get high-def Disney movies for an affordable player. Waiting until Disney produces for HD DVD also, or for Blu-ray players (or universal players) to become cheap enough (<$200) will be difficult, and I'll have to resort to upconverted SDDVDs (rented) until then :(

This is from the article you linked said-

On Monday, Sony Electronics President and Chief Operating Officer Stan Glasgow said the company will drop prices on its Blu-ray players significantly this year, possibly as low as $299, which could give Sony an even greater edge in the format war. Currently Blu-ray players retail for $999, compared with HD-DVD players, which retail for $499.


This is what he really said-

Sony Electronics COO Stan Glasgow explained that he expects the price cuts to drive volume sales, saying "if you look at the history of DVD, $299 to $399, that's when sales really took off."

Notice, nothing about this year.

http://bluray.highdefdigest.com/news/show/Industry_Forecasts/Hardware/Sony/Sony_Announces_New_$599_Blu-ray_Player_Predicts_Further_Price_Cuts_and_10x_Sales_Growth_ for_2007/493

"Glasgow said the company will drop prices on its Blu-ray players significantly this year, possibly as low as $299"

The statement says exactly what it means. They plan to drop player prices significantly THIS YEAR COMMA (same sentence context and subject) possibly as low as 299.

Which means they could drop them that low possibly this year, but it doesn't necessarily mean they will.

Edit: Whoops, I did not know he was misquoted. Man, that's a bad misquote cause it makes it look like he is saying a 300 dollar player would be possible because the sentence says they are talking about significant price drops this year.

I have always said first format with a $300 player wins.

That's so not true. HD-DVD is hindered simply by the fact that they already have a 400 dollar player (at a major discount from Toshiba) and you can even find it on certain bargain sales as low as $360.

But even at that price they are not selling that many because HD-DVD doesn't have the content available that will drive the sales.

It still isn't going to matter if only three major studios are supporting it.


that's a misleading statement.

warner,
paramount,
hbo,
universal,
new line,
Image,
weinstein,
bandai,
studio canal,
and er....porn.


not counting "porn" and anime--total catalog of titles is still greater on the hd dvd side. :)

I have always said first format with a $300 player wins.

Umm, you can find the A2 for just about $300. It's about movies. If you can't buy the movies you want, a $100 player isn't going to change anything.

Umm, you can find the A2 for just about $300. It's about movies. If you can't buy the movies you want, a $100 player isn't going to change anything.
Good thing the movies I want are on or will be coming out on HD DVD.

still rumor... but just picked this up from vgcharts.

sony going for the kill?

http://vgcharts.org/news/news.php?id=136Not happening this year. Sony still has to iron out blue laser diode costs. Given their hammering on the PS3 front, this is not happening. Unless of course, Sony wants to bleed on the stock exchange...

Good thing the movies I want are on or will be coming out on HD DVD.

It's too bad for the HD DVD format that the majority doesn't agree with you.

It's too bad for the HD DVD format that the majority doesn't agree with you.
Shame for Blu-ray as well, cause the majority wants DVD.

Shame for Blu-ray as well, cause the majority wants DVD.Nobody except for Universal fans wants HD DVD :p

Samsung BD-P1000 Blu-ray Player, $500
http://gizmodo.com/gadgets/deals/dealzmodo-samsung-bd+p1000-blu+ray-player-500-245933.php

I expect $299 player in 2007 Q4.

You will get a beat up used or demo first gen unit for $299. Nothing from the Blu Ray camp will be in the $299 price bracket before xmas 2007. it's too much of a price cut.

There'll be a $500 Bluray player this year, that's for certain - but it won't decode DTS-HD or Dolby TrueHD, and it won't have a network port, and it WONT be "BD-Live" compliant, and it won't be worth the $500.

But $299? Completely in people's dreams, just wishful thinking at best - it won't happen this year and is nothing but misinformation to try to stop people from buying the competing product.

However, I'll be quite confident in stating that there will be a $299 HD DVD player by the end of the year. And it'll decode Dolby TruHD and DD+. And it WILL have a network port and HDi compatibility. And it WILL be worth every penny.

But even at the $399 and $450 price point they are hitting now, HD DVD players are absolutely worth it. And since most HD DVD releases are encoded in VC1, you'll get the BEST picture quality available. Top pick in my book...

Personally, price is irrelevant to me.

I want one format and likely will not buy until there is one and only one.

that's a misleading statement.

warner,
paramount,
hbo,
universal,
new line,
Image,
weinstein,
bandai,
studio canal,
and er....porn.


not counting "porn" and anime--total catalog of titles is still greater on the hd dvd side. :)

I said "major" studios ---- the ones that will really drive the format at the end of the day. I wasn't talking about titles, porn, and smaller studios.

Many of these will be supporting Blu-ray too and when you factor in Warner, Paramount, Fox, Disney studios, MGM, and Sony there are FAR, FAR more potential catalog titles for Blu-ray. This is self-evident.

Personally, price is irrelevant to me.

I want one format and likely will not buy until there is one and only one.


If price is irrelevant to you why not spend $999 on a Panasonic BR and $899 on a Toshiba XA2? Then begin spending $20-25 per disk to feed them.

I think price IS relevant to you. You don't want to commit to anything for fear of spending about $1000 on a simple toy that my have limited lifespan of 3-5 years.

k

I want one format and likely will not buy until there is one and only one.

I guess you won't be buying a hi-def player for a few more years. Both formats are going to be sticking around for a while.

Sony is already starting to do what I knew they were going to do and one of the main reasons why I did not support Blu-ray.

I do feel bad for all you early adopters of Blu-ray. I saw this coming and it's nothing new from Sony. They drove the price of Blu-ray sky high at the almost insane price $1,000 and now not even a year later they can all of the sun make a 1080P player for under $400. When Sony does that it really pisses me off. Thats why I no longer buy Sony products because they nickel and dime you to death at the start and once they see that there are enough smart shoppers not willing to spend that amount of cash they are forced to bring down the cost.

I don't hate blu-ray but if I were to buy a player it would for sure not be a Sony. I just much rather see HD-DVD win!

I said "major" studios ---- the ones that will really drive the format at the end of the day. I wasn't talking about titles, porn, and smaller studios.

Many of these will be supporting Blu-ray too and when you factor in Warner, Paramount, Fox, Disney studios, MGM, and Sony there are FAR, FAR more potential catalog titles for Blu-ray. This is self-evident.

What matters is that there is plenty of content for the consumer on HD-DVD from the studios who support HD-DVD - both the exclusive studios and the neutral studios. Plus with no region coding we can get some BD US exclusives as imports from Studio Canal and others. If you are talking about potential catalog titles, Universal has the largest catalog of any studio by far.

If I'm dieing to see a BD exclusive movie that I can't import, I'll just get it on SD and watch it upconverted on my A2. It's not the perfect solution, but it will still look pretty good because the A2 has very good upconversion. Try that with an HD-DVD exclusive on a BD player. To date, no BD player has good upconversion.

Oh, and I don't know why everyone keeps mentioning Disney as some big BD draw. To me, if the kids can't watch it in the car and in their room it's useless. So unless it's a combo with SD one one side and hi-def on the other I'm just getting the SD version.

I do feel bad for all you early adopters of Blu-ray. I saw this coming and it's nothing new from Sony. They drove the price of Blu-ray sky high at the almost insane price $1,000 and now not even a year later they can all of the sun make a 1080P player for under $400.

Sony was misquoted. The issued a statement confirming that and saying they have no plans of making a cheaper player in 2007 (other than the recently announced $500 bottom of the line player).

Sony was misquoted. The issued a statement confirming that and saying they have no plans of making a cheaper player in 2007 (other than the recently announced $500 bottom of the line player).

ok well I guess maybe I missed a few posts but I was just reading from the article that was posted at the start.

"Stan Glasgow said the company will drop prices on its Blu-ray players significantly this year, possibly as low as $299,"

oops... double post

ok well I guess maybe I missed a few posts but I was just reading from the article that was posted at the start.

"Stan Glasgow said the company will drop prices on its Blu-ray players significantly this year, possibly as low as $299,"

"According to a Sony representative, Glasgow was misquoted. What Glasgow said, apparently, was that he felt the $299 price would be the tipping point where the average consumer would start to consider buying a Blu-ray player. Indeed, the Sony spokesman went on to specify that the company has no plans to roll out a Blu-ray player at that price point in 2007."

You are bang on the money

Mum and Dad aint going to launch 300 bucks into a machine that cant do Disney for the kids ;)

Sure they will. Because my kid watches her Disney movies on a 13" television with a $10 DVD player. Just like almost every other parent I know. GOOD HD stuff is watched by the big people in the house on the good tv.

Disney is irrelevant.

For me, which ever format Band of Brothers gets released on, will be the one I decide to buy.

"According to a Sony representative, Glasgow was misquoted. What Glasgow said, apparently, was that he felt the $299 price would be the tipping point where the average consumer would start to consider buying a Blu-ray player. Indeed, the Sony spokesman went on to specify that the company has no plans to roll out a Blu-ray player at that price point in 2007."

At first I was surprised that Sony was getting out in front of the pack in correcting a quote that had the BD marketing gang in this forum drooling about price parity and the quick demise of HD DVD, until I realized that not only would this absolutely kill sales of all the standalone BD players for the rest of the year while people waited for a sub $300 player. Also, this would really slow PS3 sales for hi-def fans who are casual gamers who were getting a game machine for free, and at a discount from a standalone player before, but would now have to pay a premium of $200-300 over the $299 player to get a PS3.

If price is irrelevant to you why not spend $999 on a Panasonic BR and $899 on a Toshiba XA2? Then begin spending $20-25 per disk to feed them.

I think price IS relevant to you. You don't want to commit to anything for fear of spending about $1000 on a simple toy that my have limited lifespan of 3-5 years.

k

Exactly!

Not caring about the price and not wanting to waste money are two different things. I gladly paid list price for my Denon 2900 player.

I guess you won't be buying a hi-def player for a few more years. Both formats are going to be sticking around for a while.

Fine with me, I am happy with what I have while I watch the insanity the industry has wrought upon itself. No point in being in a hurry, title selection will only increase and prices will only decrease.

Most logical string of events the way things are looking the next few months...

# of titles released per month for HD DVD and BD are roughly equal (starts in April)

# or units sold start to reach equilibrium for HD DVD and BD (due to above)

Cheaper players on both sides (399 HD DVD April, 599 BD "summer")

Again, things stay about even for software sales due points above

Cheaper players in 6 months (September...299 HD DVD) along with continued steady stream of titles and more robust advertising from Tosh.

HOLIDAY SEASON '07 will be GREAT! Things are positioned very well for HD DVD. Not to mention that 1) The Matrix will sway some people being on HD DVD first, 2) There is the possibility of a 199 Chinese branded player in the fall 3) Wii is still decreasing sales for PS3 (its a fact whether you like it or not).

So if all the above happens, and HOLDIAY SEASON '07 is even or HD DVD takes a slight lead...that's when the studios will take notice and waver on exclusivity (Fox, Disney, etc...all except SONY).

In format wars price may not be that important, well at least not when one side is dominating the sofware sales. HD-DVD needs more blockbuster releases to even the software sales and then the low player prices would really work in their favor.

A price drop by itself is not enough.

Most logical string of events the way things are looking the next few months...

# of titles released per month for HD DVD and BD are roughly equal (starts in April)

# or units sold start to reach equilibrium for HD DVD and BD (due to above)

Cheaper players on both sides (399 HD DVD April, 599 BD "summer")

Again, things stay about even for software sales due points above

Cheaper players in 6 months (September...299 HD DVD) along with continued steady stream of titles and more robust advertising from Tosh.

HOLIDAY SEASON '07 will be GREAT! Things are positioned very well for HD DVD. Not to mention that 1) The Matrix will sway some people being on HD DVD first, 2) There is the possibility of a 199 Chinese branded player in the fall 3) Wii is still decreasing sales for PS3 (its a fact whether you like it or not).

So if all the above happens, and HOLDIAY SEASON '07 is even or HD DVD takes a slight lead...that's when the studios will take notice and waver on exclusivity (Fox, Disney, etc...all except SONY).

Definitely could happen, but BD has more studios behind it, so it could handle losing 1 big studio, maybe even 2, but if HD loses Universal exclusivity, they're dead on the spot.

BD won't be losing any studios any time soon. All that talk about HD ramping up marketing and lowering prices on players ignores the fact that BD can and will do the same. The difference is that BD will have more of the year's blockbusters (Pirates 3, Spiderman 3, Ratatouille, etc).

The hasty price cut on HD DVD will significantly hurt the brand image if any. It upsets retailers since the margin gets smaller.

Personally, price is irrelevant to me.

I want one format and likely will not buy until there is one and only one.

I would pay $2000.00 for a BR player with BD-J, on board Dolby True-HD, DTS-HDMA 5.1, 7.1 decoders. It should also have DD, DD+. DTS-HD, DTS-6.1 Decoders as well.
Last but not least, 5.1 and 7.1 Analog outs.
Get me those features and a good quality 1080i output and I am in. I am willing to give up CD playback and 1080p as well.

The hasty price cut on HD DVD will significantly hurt the brand image if any. It upsets retailers since the margin gets smaller.

BS. Everyone will be happy that finally HiDef DVD can take off ....

The hasty price cut on HD DVD will significantly hurt the brand image if any. It upsets retailers since the margin gets smaller.

"hasty price cut"? Format's been out one year and now dropped the MSRP by a hundred bucks. Sounds reasonable...

And the smaller margins on the players increase player sales which increase software sales where I would imagine they've got margins again.

I also seem to recall that lowing the prices on DVD players didn't "hurt the brand image" at all. In fact, I bought into DVD when the Pana A110 hit $399.

I would pay $2000.00 for a BR player with BD-J, on board Dolby True-HD, DTS-HDMA 5.1, 7.1 decoders. It should also have DD, DD+. DTS-HD, DTS-6.1 Decoders as well.


I would pay for a proper product that supports all these features like it should. But I would pay $200.00 for it.

That's why Blu Ray has a LONG way to go.

Gosh...I think it's folly to think BRD can't sell at least 299 players by the end of 2007, especially with POTC coming out! :rolleyes:

I have always said first format with a $300 player wins.

Cut that in half and that is where I'm calling it. I hope they do make it to $300 by the end of the year though. Even though to me it seems like a $500 PS3 still brings more value overall. But for many that will be a great price for entry.

Cut that in half and that is where I'm calling it. I hope they do make it to $300 by the end of the year though. Even though to me it seems like a $500 PS3 still brings more value overall. But for many that will be a great price for entry.What is the 'more overall value' if you just want to watch movies? $500 is far too expensive for just a player. I'm with others on this, I'll take a Blu-ray player when it drops below $200.

You could probably get a "cheap" BD player either used or returned. Otherwise they are priced to line the pockets of the hardware manufacturers just as the format is designed to benefit the manufacturers and not so much the consumers.

Sony is already starting to do what I knew they were going to do and one of the main reasons why I did not support Blu-ray.

I do feel bad for all you early adopters of Blu-ray. I saw this coming and it's nothing new from Sony. They drove the price of Blu-ray sky high at the almost insane price $1,000 and now not even a year later they can all of the sun make a 1080P player for under $400. When Sony does that it really pisses me off. Thats why I no longer buy Sony products because they nickel and dime you to death at the start and once they see that there are enough smart shoppers not willing to spend that amount of cash they are forced to bring down the cost.

I don't hate blu-ray but if I were to buy a player it would for sure not be a Sony. I just much rather see HD-DVD win!

This is another unfair Sony bash. This is how new technology works, DVD players where the same way they started at an average price of $735 and with in a year the average price had dropped to $470. I assume you also hate Toshiba (and most other CE companies) also because they sold the XA2 1080p player to consumers for ~$1000 and now less than a year later they introduce the A20 at ~$500.

EDITED to reflect the adjusted prices of DVD players in 1997.

This is how new technology works, DVD players where the same way they started at 1k and higher and quickly dropped below$500.

Nothing wrong with your overall point (in fact I agree with it), but this section is an oft-repeated fallacy. On launch day, there were Toshibas at $500 and $700, a Pioneer at $600 (which I bought that day), and a pair of Pioneer LD/DVD players at $900 and $1300 (Elite). But those are a whole other animal, and could even play both sides of a DVD or LD without ejecting the disc. Panasonic jumped in just a few weeks later, and I think their unit was also $600, though I don't remember that one for sure.

Nothing wrong with your overall point (in fact I agree with it), but this section is an oft-repeated fallacy. On launch day, there were Toshibas at $500 and $700, a Pioneer at $600 (which I bought that day), and a pair of Pioneer LD/DVD players at $900 and $1300 (Elite). But those are a whole other animal, and could even play both sides of a DVD or LD without ejecting the disc. Panasonic jumped in just a few weeks later, and I think their unit was also $600, though I don't remember that one for sure.

You are correct. I will change my numbers to reflect the correct data. But like you said, that doesn't realy change the arguement.

Here is a quote from a good article discussing the CPI for DVD players:

"Retail prices for consumer-oriented DVD players currently range from $200 (on sale) to more than $1,200, depending on the quality of the player and market environment. InfoTech, Inc. reports that the average retail price for DVD video players has declined from $735 in the first half of 1997 to $470 in the second half of 1998 (see attachment 4). The mean price for all DVD players included in this study during the first half of 1999 was $443.39. The nearly 40 percent decline (from $735 to $443) in the average retail price for DVD players represents the dramatic reduction in price that is often associated with relatively new products."


Read more here: http://stats.bls.gov/cpi/cpidvd.htm

A player at that price point could very well be what we would consider a "crippled" player, missing several features that we would want in our players. Those features could very well be reserved for the more expensive players.

http://www.engadget.com/2007/05/02/pioneers-bdc-2202-300-blu-ray-drive-heads-for-the-states/
http://www.pioneerelectronics.com/pna/v3/pg/press/release/detail/0,,2076_310069589_439711429,00.html
Pioneer's BDC-2202 $300 Blu-ray drive heads for the States

Posted May 2nd 2007 1:26PM by Paul Miller
Filed under: HDTV, Home Entertainment, Storage
No more gazing jealously across the Pacific as those Chinese consumers gobble up cheap-as-free BDC-S02 Blu-ray drives from Pioneer. The new BDC-2202 will be available in the US next month, and can read Blu-ray at 5x, Blu-ray dual layer at 2x and reads and writes to DVDs and CDs as well. Unfortunately, the BDC-2202 leaves out Blu-ray burning, which might be a deal breaker for some, and a complete non-issue for others. If you're just in it for the playback side of things, the BDC-2202 seems the way to go -- until something cheaper comes out next month, of course.

Blu-ray player cost is rapidly dropping.

Even if anyone puts out a player at < $300; is your "average Joe" going to want to buy an HD player to play back HD movies costing $5/10/$15 more than their DVD counterparts on their <25" screens ?

We shall see...

http://www.engadget.com/2007/05/02/pioneers-bdc-2202-300-blu-ray-drive-heads-for-the-states/
http://www.pioneerelectronics.com/pna/v3/pg/press/release/detail/0,,2076_310069589_439711429,00.html
Blu-ray player cost is rapidly dropping.

I assume by drive, we are not talking standalone player but computer drive?

I assume by drive, we are not talking standalone player but computer drive?Of course. But you can do some more math with Xbox 360 HD DVD drive for $199.

You are bang on the money

Mum and Dad aint going to launch 300 bucks into a machine that cant do Disney for the kids ;)

Yes it can do Disney for the kids in upconverted SD DVD and the kids aren't going to care! In fact most adults aren't going to care either. $149 will make the difference because at that price nobody cares. They just buy it.

Cheers,

Grant

Shouldn't this thread's title be changed ?

I'm a believer in the fact that price has an impact in this format war. Think about it ! If blu-ray players were the same price as HDDVD players, what advantage would HDDVD have over blu-ray ? Better IME and online polls ? And even that will most likely change next year.

With the price factor out of the picture, it would be superior Content, studio support, storage capacity and bandwidth VS better IME.

This is a huge reason why HDDVD is still around is because right now its beating blu-ray in the hardware price. Even someone on these forums has in there sig saying something to the effect of wanting a cheap bluray player so they can be format neutral too. I know people wanting to buy all these new movies coming out on blu-ray but they are waiting till the price comes down.

You are bang on the money

Mum and Dad aint going to launch 300 bucks into a machine that cant do Disney for the kids ;)

Because we all know kids watch, enjoy and demand HD content :p

Chances are if mom and dad have all the Disney favorites on DVD, they will not be repurchasing the HD version just so little 4 year old Timmy can watch it in glorious 1080p.

Now, if mom and dad don't have them, then your point may be valid. But at the same time, when comparing the price of the BD Vs. DVD version, I wonder if parents would still choose the HD version over DVD?

Besides, has Disney even released any of the "vault classics" that the kids even watch? Are there plans even underway to get those classics out anytime within the next year or 2?

I'm a believer in the fact that price has an impact in this format war. Think about it ! If blu-ray players were the same price as HDDVD players, what advantage would HDDVD have over blu-ray ? Better IME and online polls ? And even that will most likely change next year.

With the price factor out of the picture, it would be superior Content, studio support, storage capacity and bandwidth VS better IME.

I don't see a $300 drive as any real indicator that BD will be on the same price plateau with HD DVD standalone. If HD DVD manages $200 players (not drives) for this Christmas season, and BD is still nearly double that, HD DVD will have penetrated enough that BD isn't just going to sweep it away. HD DVD standalone continues to grow at three times as fast as BD standalone even at current price levels.

Given the BD-J, PIP and BD-1 issues, I don't see how they will sort everything out and get to sell-through pricing at the speed of HD DVD, I expect a six month lag, along with more hybrids to throw them off course.

I don't see a $300 drive as any real indicator that BD will be on the same price plateau with HD DVD standalone. If HD DVD manages $200 players (not drives) for this Christmas season, and BD is still nearly double that, HD DVD will have penetrated enough that BD isn't just going to sweep it away. HD DVD standalone continues to grow at three times as fast as BD standalone even at current price levels.

Given the BD-J, PIP and BD-1 issues, I don't see how they will sort everything out and get to sell-through pricing at the speed of HD DVD, I expect a six month lag, along with more hybrids to throw them off course.

I don't disagree with you. All I was saying is that price is a factor. I was also adding to that, without the price advantage, blu-ray is the better choice.

I don't see a $300 drive as any real indicator that BD will be on the same price plateau with HD DVD standalone. If HD DVD manages $200 players (not drives) for this Christmas season, and BD is still nearly double that, HD DVD will have penetrated enough that BD isn't just going to sweep it away. HD DVD standalone continues to grow at three times as fast as BD standalone even at current price levels.

Given the BD-J, PIP and BD-1 issues, I don't see how they will sort everything out and get to sell-through pricing at the speed of HD DVD, I expect a six month lag, along with more hybrids to throw them off course.

Standalone standalone standalone, give me a break.

This is like saying saying the Zune is the best selling MP3 player*

*MP3 players not made by apple.

The PS3 is the best selling most used high definition dvd player, by far. Any discussion of high definition dvd that doesn't include the PS3 is ignoring the elephant in the room.

Standalone standalone standalone, give me a break.

No different from talking about consoles. Afterall the largest gaming platform is the PC.

I don't understand people who claim Disney is going to be a deciding factor. These products aren't being marketed towards your average family (if they are, its wasted marketing money). Do you really think your average Dad is going to think "Hmmm, will my kids enjoy this new Pixar movie if I don't get in HD? I better go and buy a Blu Ray player to be on the safe side."
Face it, its male enthusiasts buying these. Thats why the PS3 is the most popular HD player. From what I can see, the HD DVD release list caters towards that demographic. I bet we'll see HD DVD players at $200 by the end of the year and they'll play the majority of the year's cinema releases.

I mean The Queen, a good film, my mother cried all the way through that movie but I won't be buying it in HD and I don't see too many pre orders being sold.

For me I know right now my son probably doesn't care but if I'm going to watch it with him I want the best for ME and my woman who wants only blu-ray as well now. She gets sad when there isn't a blu-ray version available (just like me).

The PS3 is the best selling most used high definition dvd player, by far. Any discussion of high definition dvd that doesn't include the PS3 is ignoring the elephant in the room.
The PS3 is a double edge sword for the BDA. Sure there are millions of them out there and they are Blu-ray players---sometimes. Samsung, Panasonic, and Pioneer don't make PS3s, so they can't be really happy that the PS3 is THE Blu-ray player.

I don't understand people who claim Disney is going to be a deciding factor. These products aren't being marketed towards your average family (if they are, its wasted marketing money). Do you really think your average Dad is going to think "Hmmm, will my kids enjoy this new Pixar movie if I don't get in HD? I better go and buy a Blu Ray player to be on the safe side."
Face it, its male enthusiasts buying these. Thats why the PS3 is the most popular HD player. From what I can see, the HD DVD release list caters towards that demographic. I bet we'll see HD DVD players at $200 by the end of the year and they'll play the majority of the year's cinema releases.

I mean The Queen, a good film, my mother cried all the way through that movie but I won't be buying it in HD and I don't see too many pre orders being sold.

After watching my girlfriend's copy of The Holiday and my copy of Night at the Museum, my mother is fully prepared to drop $$ on a BD player this fall whereas my dad couldn't care less.

It varies on it being a male enthusiest thing.... Her opinion on the fact is that my dad spent almost 2k$ on a TV and she's never seen it look so good while displaying content. For a few bucks more she can have that anytime she wants and make the most out of the purchase.

ETA:: I also gave them the lowdown on both formats. Content swayed them to BD. She felt no compelling reason to replace her DVD collection, and the new blockbusters were more appealing than catalog they already own.

The PS3 is a double edge sword for the BDA. Sure there are millions of them out there and they are Blu-ray players---sometimes. Samsung, Panasonic, and Pioneer don't make PS3s, so they can't be really happy that the PS3 is THE Blu-ray player.

When BD standalone (standalone, standalone) is smaller in price there will be no compelling reason to buy the PS3 as a movie-player unless your a gamer, especially since it doesn't up-convert. I suspect you'll see it's paltry attach rate stay the same if not go lower.

I don't understand people who claim Disney is going to be a deciding factor. These products aren't being marketed towards your average family (if they are, its wasted marketing money). Do you really think your average Dad is going to think "Hmmm, will my kids enjoy this new Pixar movie if I don't get in HD? I better go and buy a Blu Ray player to be on the safe side."
Face it, its male enthusiasts buying these. Thats why the PS3 is the most popular HD player. From what I can see, the HD DVD release list caters towards that demographic. I bet we'll see HD DVD players at $200 by the end of the year and they'll play the majority of the year's cinema releases.

I mean The Queen, a good film, my mother cried all the way through that movie but I won't be buying it in HD and I don't see too many pre orders being sold.

Face it, many male enthusiasts have children.

Many male enthusiasts watch movies with their kids. I know I do. Most of the movies we own are Disney movies.

Why if you had kids would you buy a player that would not play the high def versions of your kids favorite movies?

When BD standaalone (standalone, standalone) is smaller in price there will be no compelling reason to buy the PS3 as a movie-player unless your a gamer, especially since it doesn't up-convert. I suspect you'll see it's paltry attach rate stay the same if not go lower.

Phil still claims upconverting is coming. By the time a standalone BD player is $299 I would think the PS3 would be mostly done with its updates.

Face it, many male enthusiasts have children.

Many male enthusiasts watch movies with their kids. I know I do. Most of the movies we own are Disney movies.

Why if you had kids would you buy a player that would not play the high def versions of your kids favorite movies?

Again, how many of these "kids favorite movies" are out for purchase on BD right now? How many will be out for the holiday season? How many are even going to be released for sure in the near future?

I'd say your counting your egg's before they're hatched. We're arguing about points that don't even matter at this point in time because none of these so called "classics" are even released or announced.

Because we all know kids watch, enjoy and demand HD content :p

Chances are if mom and dad have all the Disney favorites on DVD, they will not be repurchasing the HD version just so little 4 year old Timmy can watch it in glorious 1080p.

We are watching the movies with them, it is called movie night and it is time for the family to watch movies together, why would I not want them in HD?


Now, if mom and dad don't have them, then your point may be valid. But at the same time, when comparing the price of the BD Vs. DVD version, I wonder if parents would still choose the HD version over DVD?

Besides, has Disney even released any of the "vault classics" that the kids even watch? Are there plans even underway to get those classics out anytime within the next year or 2?

Price is a concern but not a major one, if cost was the most important concern I wouldn't have an HDTV so the HD format wouldn't really matter.

Disney has not been pumping out their great kids movies on BD. Maybe we will see some titles by the holidays, only time will tell.

Again, how many of these "kids favorite movies" are out for purchase on BD right now? How many will be out for the holiday season? How many are even going to be released for sure in the near future?

I'd say your counting your egg's before they're hatched. We're arguing about points that don't even matter at this point in time because none of these so called "classics" are even released or announced.

If people only purchased these players based on the movies that were available right now no one would be purchasing them, even for the magic price of $299.

For me I know right now my son probably doesn't care but if I'm going to watch it with him I want the best for ME and my woman who wants only blu-ray as well now. She gets sad when there isn't a blu-ray version available (just like me).
Ah-h-h-h-h.... (daubs away tear)







:)

Phil still claims upconverting is coming. By the time a standalone BD player is $299 I would think the PS3 would be mostly done with its updates.


HD DVD doesn't have to match the PS3 player-for player to thrive. I see no reason why HD DVD player sales won't continue to increase as the price continues to drop, and I do believe that $200 price-point will be a magic number.

Since BD is promising cheaper players and is still ironing out the kinks until at least November, you'd be be a fool to buy one of their players before fall when things have firmed up.

As far as upconversion goes, has a target date even been set for the PS3?

We are watching the movies with them, it is called movie night and it is time for the family to watch movies together, why would I not want them in HD?

For the reason's I already stated.



Price is a concern but not a major one, if cost was the most important concern I wouldn't have an HDTV so the HD format wouldn't really matter.

Disney has not been pumping out their great kids movies on BD. Maybe we will see some titles by the holidays, only time will tell.

HDTV and HD Movies are two different things. Both are not the same priority to 95% of the people out there. Neat of you to try and draw parallels though

Face it, many male enthusiasts have children.

Many male enthusiasts watch movies with their kids. I know I do. Most of the movies we own are Disney movies.

Why if you had kids would you buy a player that would not play the high def versions of your kids favorite movies?

Like my father before me, (who got me to sit through Marathon Man, The Boys from Brazil and Jaws when I was 6) my kids probably won't watch sentimental, processed fare.

Opinion aside, my point is: for most of the parents I know, which HD player to buy comes a fair old way down the list of prioriities. They are more concerned with which school to send them to and paying off their mortgage.
If you don't have to worry about any of that sort of stuff, then sure, a Blu Ray player would be nice.

Ah-h-h-h-h.... (daubs away tear)







:)

LOL, nice

You know, I think that being able to play the Disney films in the car or on all the DVD players in the house, plus it being $10 cheaper would convince me that the DVD version would be the better buy.

You know, I think that being able to play the Disney films in the car or on all the DVD players in the house, plus it being $10 cheaper would convince me that the DVD version would be the better buy.


Don't a lot of kids have their own setup in their bedroom or basement wreck-room anyway?

Ah-h-h-h-h.... (daubs away tear)







:)


hehe ;) Need more content.. plus the local rental stores suck!!

A $300 bluray player would destroy the PS3.

Don't a lot of kids have their own setup in their bedroom or basement wreck-room anyway?

Well if their parents are rich. My kid has a cheap DVD player and a small analog moniter in his room that he is happy with. When he wants to watch a film in the home theater we upconvert the DVD. He is happy and I think it looks very good. Have you guys seen the Lion King upconverted? It looks and sounds great.

Matsushita to release a $599 player (with 5 discs bundled)
http://www2.panasonic.com/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/prModelDetail?storeId=11301&catalogId=13251&itemId=117050&modelNo=Content05112007092938532&surfModel=Content05112007092938532

^ As interesting as I find that, the BDA still has a long way to go to match the $350 (or less) competition. If BR doesn't get their HW prices down, this war is going to keep on going and going.... :(

Any word if the Panasonic will support all features? BD-J and BD-I

I'm interested in a blu-ray player, just been waiting for one decently priced that supports all features. Hopefully this is the one.

Don't forget Sony is releasing their BD Player for $599 this summer as well.

Well if their parents are rich. My kid has a cheap DVD player and a small analog moniter in his room that he is happy with. When he wants to watch a film in the home theater we upconvert the DVD. He is happy and I think it looks very good. Have you guys seen the Lion King upconverted? It looks and sounds great.


Well, that's my point. You said that your kids happy with his cheap set-up, my guess is most kids are. I had a B/W TV in my bedroom and would often opt to watch it over the bigger color set when I was a kid.

Lion King may look great unconverted, but did your kid come to you and say "I really wish this movie looked and sounded better, can ya do anything about that?"

^ As interesting as I find that, the BDA still has a long way to go to match the $350 (or less) competition. If BR doesn't get their HW prices down, this war is going to keep on going and going.... :(

I agree.

$599 is certainly progress, but Blu-ray really needs to get that price below $500 asap. They need to narrow the price gap to less than $150.00 to have a better chance of ending the format war.

I agree.

$599 is certainly progress, but Blu-ray really needs to get that price below $500 asap. They need to narrow the price gap to less than $150.00 to have a better chance of ending the format war.


Very correct.

If Sony is smart they will price the Sony 300 at $499 and ship it with five disks including pre-announced versions of Spiderman I and II as well as 3 other disks. That would create some real excitement.

The BDA has got to see that they still have a format war on their hands which they have not won yet. Not over til Universal says it is. :)

Any word if the Panasonic will support all features? BD-J and BD-I

I'm interested in a blu-ray player, just been waiting for one decently priced that supports all features. Hopefully this is the one.

It would be tempting if it did... ;)

It does support BD-J though.

The DMP-BD10A also incorporates Dolby Digital Plus, Dolby Digital and dts decoding, and BD-J (Java application) interactive capability.

http://www2.panasonic.com/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/prModelDetail?storeId=11301&catalogId=13251&itemId=117050&modelNo=Content05112007092938532&surfModel=Content05112007092938532

Well, that's my point. You said that your kids happy with his cheap set-up, my guess is most kids are. I had a B/W TV in my bedroom and would often opt to watch it over the bigger color set when I was a kid.

Lion King may look great unconverted, but did your kid come to you and say "I really wish this movie looked and sounded better, can ya do anything about that?"
There's another thing going on here. How would you like to watch a 1960's color TV? Very hi-tech and cool at the time.

Digital display technology will make us more unforgiving; our expectations will rise. HDM can't fail. It's like undoing engineering progress. The baseline rises.

I agree.

$599 is certainly progress, but Blu-ray really needs to get that price below $500 asap. They need to narrow the price gap to less than $150.00 to have a better chance of ending the format war.The new Panasonic player is likely to be on the hi-end actually, there will be low-end cheaper BD players from other manufacturers in the not so distant future.

If I see a good $300 BD player soon I'll be more than happy to go format neutral and grab one.

The new Panasonic player is likely to be on the hi-end actually, there will be low-end cheaper BD players from other manufacturers in the not so distant future.

You base this on what?

You base this on what?See the first page of this thread, the roadmap to $299 drive is set and $599 is the first milestone they predicted. Also the price for the cheapest BD-ROM drive is $299 now.

$599 is certainly progress, but Blu-ray really needs to get that price below $500 asap. They need to narrow the price gap to less than $150.00 to have a better chance of ending the format war.Seems more plausible with the above edits ;)

Seems more plausible with the above edits ;)

"More plausible"? Well, yeah, more plausible that a price of $150 would end the format war. But a price of $150 is less plausible than anything else at this point!

But come talk to me in about 2 to 3 years and lets see where we are.

"More plausible"? Well, yeah, more plausible that a price of $150 would end the format war.No, more plausible that a price of $150 would have a better chance of ending the format war. :)

But a price of $150 is less plausible than anything else at this point!Unfortunate, but true.

But come talk to me in about 2 to 3 years and lets see where we are.That's a long timeframe. I hope Blu-ray hits <$200 long before then! That's a long time to go without all the great movies out on BD. Of course, in 2 to 3 years, we may have full format neutrality. :D

There's another thing going on here. How would you like to watch a 1960's color TV? Very hi-tech and cool at the time.

Digital display technology will make us more unforgiving; our expectations will rise. HDM can't fail. It's like undoing engineering progress. The baseline rises.

Kids love You-Tube and MP3 too ;)

How about $299 HD DVD player NOW? (well starting on Sunday and running for a month).

That's $399 MSRP - instant rebate of $100 = $299 now for the Toshiba HD A2.

Plus the 5 free HD DVD movies.

How can Blu-ray sell mass quantities of players if they are consistently twice the price of the lowest Toshiba HD DVD player.

$299 will be difficult for Blu-ray players to achieve as tehy are just not being produced in the volumes that the HD A2 and other 2nd generation Toshiba models sharing the same chasis and optics and loader. Add to that the extra top layer that the BD optics have to read and that adds to a cost disadvantage.

Unless those Blu-ray companies are going to go to the mat and sell their players at below cost of significantly discounted from where they want to be, it will be tough for Blu-ray to get to $299 or below this year.

Sony JUST announced a $599 Blu Ray player and you're already thinking about $299 by the end of this year??? Great point. Its hard to plan a $299 player if you just starting selling the $599 one.

Even if anyone puts out a player at < $300; is your "average Joe" going to want to buy an HD player to play back HD movies costing $5/10/$15 more than their DVD counterparts on their <25" screens ?

We shall see... HD movie prices can be changed overnight. I there are enough Blu-ray or HD DVD players in teh ecosystem retailers will adjust pricing to maximize sales. Right now HD DVD and Blu-ray discs are mostly still at first adopter pricing levels at B&M stores.

Wal-Mart will sell them at $19.99 or less for both formats.

How can Blu-ray sell mass quantities of players if they are consistently twice the price of the lowest Toshiba HD DVD player.2 different things! Blu-ray and HD DVD are not the same. Different movies are available on them.