I will own both. What is the general consensus of the forum regarding the insanity of this "war?"

Mods: Delete if you must. We are all for the best video and audio here. This "war" on AVS is getting silly. You can suspend me now.

A mountain made out of a molehill as 3 plus formats have existed for many years with video game players

The press has hyped it to death, when in fact simply buying ONE extra player in the perceived "non-winning' format would solved the problem for most

I have HD-DVD already but when 007 BOND movies start to come out (soon), I will add that new lower cost BLU-RAY player

Both formats can survive and even if they don't - people can still play their (already bought) discs for years in the format that fails

Go and look in eny poll.Now start clicking on the members names who have voted in said poll & see how many are actully just empty accounts/2nd accounts (0 post count ect).Is that silly enough ? :)

Well.... there sure are a lot of losers counting down the amazon rankings. Multiple new threads daily about it. Some of the crazy bastuds even think Blu-Ray sales are close to SD-DVD sales. I'd have to vote INSANE.

Yes. This is whole epenis thing is hilarious. I apprecaite the rational discussions and legitimate info that is posted, BUT the personal attacks because of your HD/BD affiliation is freaking hilarious! Keeps me entertained at work =)

Insane, no. Overzealous, yes.

If anything, there will be more titles, players and features down the road. And for better prices too. You cannot have it both ways, being an early adopter of a format and decrying the problems, prices and battles.

I'll stick with my dvd's and wait for this to play out.

I think most of the posters here:

1) Love movies.

2) Love gadgets, electronics, and cool new stuff.

3) Want to see their favorite movies on the best available HD disc format possible.

No harm in any of that.

Initially it started as a simply, "lookatthat! real 1080 highdef on shiny disks!", then it became "red army vs blu army", then we had the red curve vs blu curve on that blasted website, and then there was always the mud slinging.

Then the insiders and the paided posters, and the red crusaders followed by blu crusaders.

Eventually, there's one side with the "I paid good money for my player and I demand to see movies because I paid good money for my player" and the other side with "All your studios are ours, All the movies are ours, your gods have abandoned you".

You have to agree, this is high drama for what is supposed to be a laid back forum with people discussing the toys for the well-heeled. How can one not be drawn in by the mystique of being part of the least dangerous lowest stakes most meaningless conflct of the 21st century so far?

The entire thing is ridiculous. How can people that call themselves A/V enthusiasts complain about buying another device to play HD video? I thought that's what they lived for.

There are some (younger?) people who like the early adopter label and don't realize that early adopters are the ones who also have many of the betamax, LD, 8 track, VCD, VHS-C , D-VHS stuff somewhere in storage, it takes the risk out if you buy all formats, but then there's a price to pay for people who haven't played this game before.

Most real early adopters are cool with the idea of being wrong, as anyone who saw the last days of LD must know that nothing good lasts forever.

Go and look in eny poll.Now start clicking on the members names who have voted in said poll & see how many are actully just empty accounts/2nd accounts (0 post count ect).Is that silly enough ? :)

Hm. that's strange. I took the time and counted the users with <= 10 posts in this poll: http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/poll.php?do=showresults&pollid=4435

By the way a poll which has a very technical background so I did not vote there. When I counted correctly, I saw 14 for HDDVD, 14 for BD, and 1 for "neutral". all users with a history of either 0 or less than 10 posts.

Let's assume they are "real", it seems to be easier to just press a button and vote instead of standing here and express oneself.

Now I see the results of many polls in a different light. By the way: same for the endless "sales reports" which are more than useless in my opinion.

There are some (younger?) people who like the early adopter label and don't realize that early adopters are the ones who also have many of the betamax, LD, 8 track, VCD, VHS-C , D-VHS stuff somewhere in storage, it takes the risk out if you buy all formats, but then there's a price to pay for people who haven't played this game before.

Most real early adopters are cool with the idea of being wrong, as anyone who saw the last days of LD must know that nothing good lasts forever.

Remember EL-Cassette ??

I agree with you 100%, there is risk in being an early adopter, and no amount of people whining or complaining changes that.

You mean this?
http://i18.ebayimg.com/03/i/000/8e/fa/cf21_1.JPG

http://cgi.ebay.ca/Teac-AL-700-EL-Cassette_W0QQitemZ190087956636QQihZ009QQcategoryZ4784QQcmdZV iewItem

Absolutely, positively out of your minds.

The fanaticsm is quite astonoshing for two formats that are in it for one thing. To make a HUGE profit.

It has gotten the point that I rarely read any of the threads anymore. Fanboys screaming at each other over nothing. I just skim the headlines for any really new significant developments.

A little, yeah :)

Here's the thing. I have neither format, but sincerely hope that forces and resources are combined for the future of storage media. I could care less what that entails.

But some people on here are, in fact, nothing less than rabid dogs regarding their format. And typically, it all revolves around protecting their decision in their purchase. The only people wiser than the ones that sit this out for awhile are the ones that invest in both. You will notice a corollary between those folks and the level of rationality in their posts on this matter.

I will own both. What is the general consensus of the forum regarding the insanity of this "war?"

Mods: Delete if you must. We are all for the best video and audio here. This "war" on AVS is getting silly. You can suspend me now.

Personally I am annoyed at the idea of having to buy two different players for full access to HD movie content. The war on AVS isn't getting silly, its been silly from day one. However the format war itself is even sillier.

I was an early adopter of both DVD (mid 97) and Tivo (early 99). However, I am sitting this one out for a while because:

1) I refuse to buy two players.

2) I refuse to buy crippled players (e.g. LG dual format, Sony & Pioneer BD, Toshiba players)

3) I refuse to buy buggy players.

4) BluRay players are still too expensive and HD-DVD players have limited access to content.

If BluRay continues to outsell HD-DVD by a wide margin and BD players drop in price to around $600, I may buy a BD player later this year.

Where people will bi*ch and complain about a SALE.....LOL

I think most of the posters here:

1) Love movies.
My impression would be this is incorrect. The big thing doesn't seem to be the movies as much as the technology. A movie can be great regardless of the delivery platform, but this crew requires it be on the "right" platform. That's not a movie lover IMO.

2) Love gadgets, electronics, and cool new stuff.
That seems pretty safe.

3) Want to see their favorite movies on the best available HD disc format possible.
That's one interpretation, but it appears to me the movies are fairly incidental to many of these people. It's primarily about their preferred format. Superiority being in the eye of the beholder.

No harm in any of that.
Except when it consistently interferes with attempts at level headed discussions related to the formats and industry. To use the word "pest" is over kind in many cases. Overzealous is also a kind way to express it.

I interpret it as the usual problem of people having the protection of distance, just sitting at their PC feeling totally invincible and untouchable. The result being a complete riot of behavior that simply wouldn't be tolerated in face-to-face communications.

First off, this thread rocks!

And, for the sake of disclosure, I'm rooting for Blu-Ray to win, but not to the fanaticism of some of the people on this thread, as I would be just as happy if HD-DVD won.

I mean, you guys do get insane, it's more heated than some of the debates on abortion and the Iraq War that I see going on. I think that the people need to realize that it doesn't really matter, as the BIGGER PICTURE is that we finally have a high-def medium(s) on which we can have movies and TV Shows (although the studios don't really seem to care about the latter for HD media distribution), and are no longer at the mercy of local affiliates, premium movie channels, or TNT.
That being said, this format war, if dragged on too long, will destroy our chances at that. People buying all this HD equipment TEND to be a little older, but still understand technology relatively well. My dad, who bought an HDTV in 2001, said that he simply will not buy ANY high-def disc format until the war is over, because he claims that he'll just buy the next BetaMax (which he sadly did back in the 80s). And that's exactly why they will both fail, they are going to lose most of the "early adopter" base, and then the products will never get to the point of mass consumption, especially with a proven, developed, and relatively OK format out there already.

AND JUST A NOTE TO THE STUDIOS
I am not going to spend $1000 on a player that, aside from having a 50/50 shot at becoming prematurely obsolete, doesn't have ANYTHING good on it! Looking at my DVD collection, I see Star Wars, Lord of the Rings, Angel, The X Files, Star Trek, Citizen Kane, the Hitchcock movies...none of which are on Blu-Ray/HDDVD! You are not going to get people to spend that kind of money if there's nothing there.

Most real early adopters are cool with the idea of being wrong, as anyone who saw the last days of LD must know that nothing good lasts forever.

Sure it does! Just keep your LDs and make sure you have a backup player or two. :)

My impression would be this is incorrect. The big thing doesn't seem to be the movies as much as the technology. A movie can be great regardless of the delivery platform, but this crew requires it be on the "right" platform. That's not a movie lover IMO.


That seems pretty safe.


That's one interpretation, but it appears to me the movies are fairly incidental to many of these people. It's primarily about their preferred format. Superiority being in the eye of the beholder.


Except when it consistently interferes with attempts at level headed discussions related to the formats and industry. To use the word "pest" is over kind in many cases. Overzealous is also a kind way to express it.

I interpret it as the usual problem of people having the protection of distance, just sitting at their PC feeling totally invincible and untouchable. The result being a complete riot of behavior that simply wouldn't be tolerated in face-to-face communications.
That post reads like a flow sheet for LD Debate. ;)

The only people wiser than the ones that sit this out for awhile are the ones that invest in both.

I don't follow this assertion. Especially when supporting both formats requires no small amount of pocket change.

That post reads like a flow sheet for LD Debate. ;)

Interesting perspective :).

Personally, I'm number one a film fan, and although I appreciate the option of higher quality presentations, I'm perfectly willing to enjoy VHS -- it's the film that ultimately matters to me, not the medium. (But you can safely believe I take some pains to get an optimal VHS viewing experience. :))

I will own both. What is the general consensus of the forum regarding the insanity of this "war?"
Someone on another thread said that this was a big viral marketing campaign. I really hope that this is correct because if these are real people getting so aggressive and evangelical over what sort of shiny disk they buy their movies on I worry for their mental health. It's really not all that important in the big scheme of things is it?

The entire thing is ridiculous. How can people that call themselves A/V enthusiasts complain about buying another device to play HD video? I thought that's what they lived for.
Indeed, I own both flavours (HD-A1 and BD-P1000). At first I favoured HD-DVD because to my eye it looked better. Now both formats typically look as good as each other to me so I am totally indifferent. Actually that's not quite true; I have a slight bias to HD-DVD because the disks are region free and I like the menus a bit better and a slight bias to blu ray because the player is smoother in operation but neither issue is really worth getting upset about. If one format goes under I will still have the player.

It has gotten the point that I rarely read any of the threads anymore. Fanboys screaming at each other over nothing. I just skim the headlines for any really new significant developments.
This is the shame isn't it. I found the macro blocks on MPEG2 and macro blocks on VC-1 threads interesting because they helped me understand how lossy video codecs work. But having to wade through pages of histrionic ranting to get to interesting information is a real turn off.

BTW I can understand how the Microsoft employees on here might get defensive about VC-1. It's their baby, they built it. I get defensive when people criticise my work. But from people beyond the one or two that worked on that project I just find the strident bickering a turnoff. (I don't know of analogues from other companies - I've abandoned the insiders thread - but were there anyone that designed MPEG2 or AVC on the forum I could handle them getting defensive too - the same "it has to be their work thats being criticised" requirement applies)

Well, I am sure that my wife would say that arguing over $1000 disk players is a lot less insane than arguing over $5000 projectors. :)

The point is that all of this is a bit crazy and if we enjoy it, hey, more power to us, but excessive sanity is not a requirement for any portion of this forum.

Well, as one of the "most wanted" HD looneys here :) I've kept pretty quiet lately for the most part, but I'll check in with my quick thoughts here, at the risk of exposing myself to multiple warhead attacks :D

I've got loads of HD on my Dish Network receiver, so I really would like the next gen "shiny disc" to be a very significant step up from what I get already. As such, the pressure on Bluray to deliver a consistently top drawer offering is healthy. I secretly do indulge in a limited select few BD offerings, while investing primarily in HD DVD. I know that I'll always be able to use my players long after the "end" of the "war" regardless of which way it turns out (and remain convinced that universal players will continue to come to market).

The more BD studios that step up to top notch codecs with "lovingly" and "caringly" compressed movies, the more favourably I will view the BD format. To me, that means definitely closing the door on Mpeg2 more "firmly" in the short-term.

I look forward to the eventual "victor" being one that has won on the basis of offering the highest quality for my spend (and not just winning on account of having cornered the majority of the content). If that "victor" is Bluray, then I'll be fine with it, so long as the PQ/AQ has truly become superior, and the price competitive.

In the mean time - I'll be continuing to provide lots of competitive spirit (oh, and I'll be watching lots of HD movies from various sources!)

I don't follow this assertion. Especially when supporting both formats requires no small amount of pocket change.

Right, but you'll probably see them defending their purchase rationale less here than the ones that lose sleep at night over this silliness.

Right, but you'll probably see them defending their purchase rationale less here than the ones that lose sleep at night over this silliness.

I have complete sympathy with those that choose to wait this mess out. I wouldn't even consider criticizing them in any sense. I did purchase an HD-DVD player last summer, but my purpose was to upgrade to an upscaling player, the HD was effectively a bonus. I now own 20 HD titles, and I admit a preference for my investment being a survivor, but ultimately, my concern is having access to the films -- SD DVD may not be the ultimate, but it's typically adequate.

Of course we are...but thats what makes it soo fun.