If a disc warps, it can pull the disc seal apart. Also, hard shots on the edge can break the seal. I know this from dropping one that hit hard enough to do so.

True. Also, maybe a slight misalignment of the halves at the factory can show up years later in a broken seal (uneven stresses, never mind the spinning at high speeds and so on).

True. Also, maybe a slight misalignment of the halves at the factory can show up years later in a broken seal (uneven stresses, never mind the spinning at high speeds and so on).

That malady, I thought, caused "washing machine" effect with the players. If a disc had off-centre sides, when you started it out, when it was reading the info at disc's inner edge, it would make a player shake like a washing machine doing the final, spin cycle that throws the excess water out. Both of the discs that I saw that caused it only did it for about the first 5 minutes of the side/s, one was single-sided. I returned both. Would their seal have broken over this? I don't know. They transferred most of their problem to the players that doggedly tried to track them.....well, did track them

That malady, I thought, caused... a player shake like a washing machine doing the final, spin cycle

As I think about my long experience with them, some disks do seem to cause a tiny, itty bit more shaking and humming than others, not enough to even worry about, but for 20 years later when maybe the glue fails at last from a couple million ever so slightly unbalanced spins. All that torque may add up. Mind, I'm talking about discs that stay clean for a couple of decades and then suddenly have rotting aluminium. I don't drop em, they're not warped and so on.

Forgot to mention, I've had the Fugitive for 15 years (?) and was always mildly surprised when the machine went to playing side 2 sooner than I'd thought it might... so then like after the drillionth play, I groked at last, side 1's CAV haha!

Makes one wonder what kinds of physical failures we might see in DVDs after 20 years. Maybe by then it'll at last all be portable files one can back up as one pleases, dream on :) Meanwhile the anna-log thrill of LD stays with me, hope at least a few dozen of my discs'll keep holdin up for the long haul, so to speak.

Christopher, I have copies of the LD-S9 service manual that I made for folks years ago and then they backed out leaving me holding the bag. I may have an extra copy of the X9's but I have not found one yet.

Tony, I think I have one X9 set left. If I don't, I'll get one more printed later. Best wishes, Rachael!

Remember Rachael! That extra X9 copy is mine if you ever find it!:D oh! Wait you were supposed to print more out!:p;)

Must have been a used one if you bought it in 2000. Criterion quickly dumped LD somewhere around 1997 or so. Maybe earlier.

Not quite sure what their big hurry was.

The last Criterion laserdisc was Armageddon, released 3/16/1999.

The title is somehow appropriate. Criterion started their LD catalog with one of the greatest movies ever made (Citizen Kane) and ended with one of the worst. Armageddon, indeed.

So say we could re-introduce LaserDisc into the market. A new format like it would be sweet, but say we just take what there is now, add some things, and go with it, what would we add? With modern comb filters, HDMI connections, scaling, etc., how good a LaserDisc player could be produced today? I'm always sad to see what most HD sets do to LaserDiscs, but what if something internally was done in the player to really beef up the picture? I'd gladly pay $500 or more for a brand new, model year 2007 Pioneer with some amazing features like HDMI, 1080p upscaling, built in AC3 RF demodulation, dual-sided play, and image output greater than anything else that's been created.

I'd imagine Pioneer could turn a profit if they released something like this.

AJG

Remember Rachael! That extra X9 copy is mine if you ever find it!:D oh! Wait you were supposed to print more out!:p;)

Tony, your memory is better than mine! Now, do you remember where i put the X9 stuff? ;):)

So say we could re-introduce LaserDisc into the market. A new format like it would be sweet, but say we just take what there is now, add some things, and go with it, what would we add? With modern comb filters, HDMI connections, scaling, etc., how good a LaserDisc player could be produced today? I'm always sad to see what most HD sets do to LaserDiscs, but what if something internally was done in the player to really beef up the picture? I'd gladly pay $500 or more for a brand new, model year 2007 Pioneer with some amazing features like HDMI, 1080p upscaling, built in AC3 RF demodulation, dual-sided play, and image output greater than anything else that's been created.......I'd imagine Pioneer could turn a profit if they released something like this.

It sounds more like a $2000 player that you've invented.

Yes. Laserdisc was DVDs daddy.

It sounds more like a $2000 player that you've invented.

I'd pay $2000 for it! :D

AJG

Yes. Laserdisc was DVDs daddy.

more like LD was the grandfather, DAD was the great grandpa who died before the birth of CD... which was the popular kid who everyone copied. CED was the forgotten cousin every one skipped, Muse LD was the premature baby... CD-I disguised itself as VCD. DVD Audio and SA-CD were the ones people didnt care about except the chess club. Blu-ray and HD DVD were the twins that didnt play nice.

When I played my LDs thru component to my 55" analog RPTV, they looked great. Now when I play them on my 65" digital RPTV, thru S-video (the component is taken up by my HD A1) the B&Ws don't look bad, the color ones look like hell.

I played the new Criterion DVD of "Robinson Crusoe on Mars" and it looked fantastic, the LD of it looks like a 10th generation VHS tape.

I sometimes do miss my analog because I have a lot of LDs that I haven't even opened up yet!

Well so far no luck on ebay.

People keep swooping in on the auctions for the discs I am interested in at the last moment.

Ah well, there's always tomorrow.

Well so far no luck on ebay.

People keep swooping in on the auctions for the discs I am interested in at the last moment.

Ah well, there's always tomorrow.

I have over 300, what are you looking for?

Star Wars Trilogy (eps 4, 5, & 6 - theatrical release), the Close Encounters SE, Star Trek: the Motion picture (yes, I am a Sci Fi geek).

Basically the films that I don't already own on DVD.

Star Wars Trilogy (eps 4, 5, & 6 - theatrical release), the Close Encounters SE, Star Trek: the Motion picture (yes, I am a Sci Fi geek).

Basically the films that I don't already own on DVD.

I'll see what I have and get back to you.

I'd pay $2000 for it! :D

AJG

Aaron! i know exactly where you are coming from, i would pay this money gladly for a re-invented Laserdisc Product soft and Hardware.

Good to read your threads friend (and everyone elses of course!)

Kindest regards

Mark UK :):D

anybody have a source or some insight to a place that may list all of the LD's with no DVD release

I know of some , i would love to find a decent list of these disc's - it would be fun to track some of them down

gary

Www.LDDB.com has a master data base of laserdiscs
Www.bigemma.com has a LD section of not on DVD

Star Wars Trilogy (eps 4, 5, & 6 - theatrical release), the Close Encounters SE, Star Trek: the Motion picture (yes, I am a Sci Fi geek).

Basically the films that I don't already own on DVD.


i have many of those but i to am a sci-fi geek so i will keep them.
ive got star trek 1-9, star wars ep.1 and the definitive collection of star wars 4-6. as well as 2001, and a few others.

but thiers a few places you can look;
www.bigemma.com. they have a alright LD section. ive bought a few when on sale in fact i bought 90% of my james bond collection here as it was cheeper then 1 at a time via ebay.

www.half.com like ebay but they sell just buy it now items. ive found a few rare movie this way as they are offten not listed on ebay. and ive found the sellers will offten have a few movies so you can buy many at a time and save on shiping.

i think www.amazon.com still sells them in their used market place although ive not bought a LD this way in a few years.

www.********* can still be good you sometimes have to cheek the ebay stores as well thier are a few big sellers on their that sell a lot. i bought many this way. ive found the cheepest way to get a rare disc is to find it in a lot of LDS. so you may have to get a few crummy ones with it but you'll get what your looking for. i got F.I.S.T this way the disc is mint and the box is good i payed like $20 for a 4 LD lot.

I'll give them a look... Thanks.

Was laserdisc a success??? Was vinyl a success? :cool:

The answer is yes. BIG TIME success for industry leaders looking to establish a "new market" in digital media. They made a smart move. Start with the wealthy and industry leaders first, and then work your way down to Walmart with the DVD format.

The Victorola was also a rich mans toy. By comparison, the Victorola was to 33 1/3rpm Lp's, as Laserdiscs are to DVDs. The fidelity of 78rpm reproduces higher highs and lower low (wider dynamic range). So why did the 33 1/3 "beat" the 78rpm format? Consumers will accept lower fidelity and you can fit "more data in the same area." For Laserdisc it was a matter of serving the luxury class first, creating the demand for digital media, and then delivering a consumer grade version when the market was hungry to be hip.

HD has raised the bar yet again (but this is another subject altogether).

I am not sure where to post this question, please advise.

I have numerous laserdisc players including a D704 and D503, one Kenwood RF and one Yammy Sound processor. I am using the RF demodulators for the AC3 tracks but for the analog tracks should I use the optical output or the analog outs on the D704?

I have already determined that my Yamaha 6090 receiver and my Panasonic PT-AE1000U do a better job with the video that the s-video in the LD's so I am using the composite outs.

Any help with the cabling for the D704 would be great! :confused:

:)...In the lonely the land of vhs...they came a giant...a reason to rejoice and to be with the special people..the ones who really loved movies. I bought and enjoyed laserdisc and it help make me a real movie collector. I remember the Jim Cameron Aliens edition with 18 mins a of added footage...just for us collectors of laser disc...some of the best special editions ever made were done for laser, and remember it kind of started the hometheater thing...great platform....I salute you....:D

The people that started up laser land , lost a lot of cash .
for them in this area laser was a failure ....
must of hurt a lot of mom and pop stores ....not much adoption
For myself I loved laser and was not happy when rumour of dvd came about...
but dvd got cheaper and better ...we all know !

Was it a success? It was at my house. I had over 200 disks before it folded. I really enjoyed them too. Big step up from VHS at the time. I don't regret buying it anymore than I regret buying HD DVD. It was great while it lasted.

I never paid attention before since I was young that time so I don't know if it was success or not. But I guess it was!

We had a Panasonic LX101 Laserdisc player. I also saw many, as in tons of LD rentals/stores in different places. This was way back when I was in the Philippines, which is hm, ah, uh, you know :p

Rental was like P25-30 which is $0.60 to $0.70 per movie but we got free movies since my cousin owned a rental store. :D

So I guess it did infest earth! :D ;)

You guys make me want to dig out my sony mdp-750 and watch Flight of the Phoenix. Or Better yet Harry and the Hendersons

I think I am one of the few that still uses his LD's a lot. 106" 1080p equipped theater here.

Come to think of it....

I was in the Dulles airport a few months ago and I overheard a guy say "Laser Disc".

I said "excuse me, but did you just say laser disc?"

He went on to say that thousands of concerts with decent audio had been released on LD that will most likely never see DVD. Just interesting food for thought....

I've replaced most of my titles with the DVD.. The ones that had laser rot anyway.

Correct me guys but if my eyes remember correctly, I never saw artifacts/gradient loss on laser disc movies. Again, I was young that time. I am saying this because it's the first thing I noticed on DVD when I owned the DVP NS 400D player. So my brain is still saying that LD quality is the best although lower resolution. Now I can't tell because I don't have the LD player with me :p

Maybe I should auction off my small collection of SW, JP, ET, etc. Would the price be worth the effort?

Edit: Nevermind. I just checked the auction site and it's not worth it.

I had one person contact me and ask about buying my LDs. I have perhaps 20 of them. Trouble is, being large and heavy, shipping is a killer for someone selling them into the US from outside the country. Selling them is not really feasible.

So mine will be landfill material some day, as will my perfectly functioning Pioneer CLD D703 player.

But I loved lasers in their day!

Correct me guys but if my eyes remember correctly, I never saw artifacts/gradient loss on laser disc movies.

Laser was an analog medium, so there was no compression.

Laser was an analog medium, so there was no compression.

So my eyes were right. I thought PQ was phenomenal. :) It just didn't have the resolution which we have now. That's great to hear. Thanks.

I had one person contact me and ask about buying my LDs. I have perhaps 20 of them. Trouble is, being large and heavy, shipping is a killer for someone selling them into the US from outside the country. Selling them is not really feasible.

So mine will be landfill material some day, as will my perfectly functioning Pioneer CLD D703 player.

But I loved lasers in their day!

Media mail has sort of saved us here....

I'm always on the hunt for rare discs still, stuff never out on DVD, ect..ect...

for the analog tracks should I use the optical output or the analog outs on the D704?
To hear the analog audio from your CLD-D704 player, I would use the analog output jacks. I don't even know if you can use the digital output for analog content; I never tried. The typical way to connect audio from one of these players was to have three separate outputs: analog, digital, and AC3 RF.

I think laserdisc and minidisc had about the same run.
And that run was to audio hobbiest.Same with DAT.
I dont think I know any normal people other than audio hobbiest that had a laserdisc player.

I still have over 200 laserdiscs and several players. The interesting thing about the laserdisc era, is that Pioneer had an incredible array of models to choose from, often putting out a full range from industrial to reference quality players.
The phenonemon of laser rot was much less noticeable on the top players. My favorite player, which I still use, is the Pioneer Elite LD S2. Retailed for $3500US and sold between 1990-1996 I believe.
Picture quality is so good, you'd swear you were watching a non-enhanced dvd at times...

I watch LD's purr-dy regularly. This week I viewed The Thing From Another World and Village Of The Damned (1960). I have a substantial collection of Academy Ratio films on LD. LD is a great format for the old movies, stille.

I am not sure where to post this question, please advise.

I have numerous laserdisc players including a D704 and D503, one Kenwood RF and one Yammy Sound processor. I am using the RF demodulators for the AC3 tracks but for the analog tracks should I use the optical output or the analog outs on the D704?

I have already determined that my Yamaha 6090 receiver and my Panasonic PT-AE1000U do a better job with the video that the s-video in the LD's so I am using the composite outs.

Any help with the cabling for the D704 would be great! :confused:


Hook up both the analog and digital outputs. You need the analogs for commentary and second language tracks or if you get an LD that predates Digital Sound (PCM here, not AC-3 or DTS). Before PCM, LD's had CX-noise-reduced, analog sound. The Thing From Another World LD I viewed this week has only CX analog audio.

Hook everything up, there could be an occasion you'll need the analog.

Looks like Big Emma is no longer in business.

I used big emma a few times infact I got the entire james bond laserdisc collection their.well all but worlds not enough and later. I saw worlds not enough on Ebay for $75 buy it now a few years ago I'm still kicking myself for not buying it.

I bought some rare warner 16:9 LD's from them for cheap. I think I bought my copy of Eraser Japan import from them. I bought it to replace my other copy of Eraser that had laser rot. imagine that a pressing of Eraser that has problems, like it's been erased.:D thanks Sony!

Where do you get this from?
Were there plans for a Super HD LD format @2500x2000?
Or are you just extrapolating?

It lasted almost 20 years. ....
If we had stuck with it instead of the "sexy" DVD we could have Super HDTV (2500x2000) instead of our normal 1920x1080 HDTV......

If it was interlaced, then there was compression, just not the kind of digital compression you are thinking of.
Laser was an analog medium, so there was no compression.

No super HD laserdiscs. Their were MUSE laserdiscs which was a early attempt at disc based HD. I think if they had lasted a few year some of them may have looked very good at or above HD-DVD/blu-ray. But I think MUSE LDs ended before they had a chance to work all the bugs out and up the quility. Much like DVD or Laserdisc as the early movies in the format looked horible in comparision to the newer ones. Look at just about any DVD from 1997 to a DVD today. Its almost night and day..

Laserdisc could make a come back. Uncompressed HD. Oh that would be sweet. Wishfull thinking.

I know most videophiles know about ld's but Laserdisc Database is the clearing house for rare and probably you wont see this in many years if you dont buy it now LD's. Its a passion of mine to buy The Godzilla Memorial LD Box Set but even 1 friend has said if you have a grand(thats 1000.00 to you and me) I might can find it at the annual Godzilla convention held here in the US usually near Chicago or La. Its called Gfest. I have a couple good stateside releases like Transformers:Five Faces of Darkness which only had 714 printed and Iron Giant. I think Iron Giant might be the last ld of an animated movie but Prince of Egypt might be the last one pressed. Im not sure. My 25 ld's set me back around 1300.00 to which left me broke for around 3 yrs.

I went through the LD period - it was really my first HT type experience. I will always remember the THX and DD intros (AC3). They were simply fantastic. Somehow they sounded better than DVD (probably like folks comparing CDs to records :)). I got rid of everything, but retained my Star Wars box set. Also, the three special edition Star Wars (with the updated covers) are framed in our HT. Memories.... SJ

Before I landfill my LD player, I'd still like to get the Meat Loaf disc in the title line.
It was never released on DVD.
Don't suppose it's gonn'a happen . . . :(

Ha! I still have my laserdisc player in the garage somewhere. I got it as a gift when I graduated high school in 1999. God only knows where the discs are...I had some quality movies like "In the Army Now" and "Guyver 2" lol.

I still love the recation I get when I show my friends a laserdisc.

Sad to see Big Emma's go... They are still on ebay.. Only like 50 LD's now though. :(

I think I am one of the few that still uses his LD's a lot. 106" 1080p equipped theater here.

So do I. I have a 92" screen Panasonic PT-AE1000U 1080p projector with a Pioneer CLD-D704. I watched Star Wars, with Han shooting first recently and loved it. LD AC3 5.1 sound is still great. :)

Hook up both the analog and digital outputs. You need the analogs for commentary and second language tracks or if you get an LD that predates Digital Sound (PCM here, not AC-3 or DTS). Before PCM, LD's had CX-noise-reduced, analog sound. The Thing From Another World LD I viewed this week has only CX analog audio.

Hook everything up, there could be an occasion you'll need the analog.

Thanks so much. That was what I thought. :)

it was a success for enthusiasts (like me) who enjoyed better quality video/audio for a decade before dvd came along. in many ways studios used it as a test bed for content ideas - most of those became widely available on dvd.

I think laserdisc and minidisc had about the same run.
And that run was to audio hobbiest.Same with DAT.
I dont think I know any normal people other than audio hobbiest that had a laserdisc player.

Almost every Philipino family I know has one. I assume they must have been pretty big in the Phillipines. I know that a few stores in our Chinatown rented up to the late 90's.

No super HD laserdiscs. Their were MUSE laserdiscs which was a early attempt at disc based HD. I think if they had lasted a few year some of them may have looked very good at or above HD-DVD/blu-ray. But I think MUSE LDs ended before they had a chance to work all the bugs out and up the quility. Much like DVD or Laserdisc as the early movies in the format looked horible in comparision to the newer ones. Look at just about any DVD from 1997 to a DVD today. Its almost night and day..

Laserdisc could make a come back. Uncompressed HD. Oh that would be sweet. Wishfull thinking.

MUSE discs are available on ebay as well as the players. The prices are rediculous though. $150-250 for a movie $1000-3000 for players.

Wow!

I went through the LD period - it was really my first HT type experience. I will always remember the THX and DD intros (AC3). They were simply fantastic. Somehow they sounded better than DVD (probably like folks comparing CDs to records :)). I got rid of everything, but retained my Star Wars box set. Also, the three special edition Star Wars (with the updated covers) are framed in our HT. Memories.... SJ

The THX WOW laserdisc is amazing. Hopefully they will do something like that with blu-ray. That disc is still one of my ultimate pride and joys in my collection of over 2700 movies. :)

sorry if this has been flogged to death or is just plain obvious, but LD was a little before my time. was it considered successful? i know it was always a niche product, but it had star wars, spawned the criterion collection, etc. seems like a success to me, even if it sold 10k's of copies instead of millions. i see people talking about the 1000+ titles they still have on LD and it sounds successful enough as a format for me.

i'm asking because i expect hd will hang on long enough until universal players are the norm, then both formats will stay alive (bd with region encoding and drm for the paranoid studios, hd for the cheap/small run studios, with maybe some of the red-laser hd sprinkled in for shorts/tv/indies/public domain publishers/personal HD recorders). all this, plus the fact that DVD is good enough for J6P and completely entrenched, tell me that both formats together will still just be niche players. but if my (admittedly ignorant) opinion of LD is correct, that's good enough for me.

for the record, i'm an early adopter only because i could get the HD add-on for $200. except for that bias, i'd be happy with either format dominant. if i can only get half of my future purchases in hi def, i'll be satisfied (with only around 150 SD's i'm not the collecting fiend some of you are).

the perspectives of you grizzled ancients are very much appreciated!

I still have mine and still play it at least once a month.
365 LD titles.

MUSE discs are available<CUT>. The prices are rediculous though. $150-250 for a movie $1000-3000 for players.

Wow!

You do know that that the MSRP was about $200-$300 a movie that's mid 1990's cash. That is if you actually preordered the movie and if they made one for ya.

You do know that that the MSRP was about $200-$300 a movie. That is if you actually preordered the movie and if they made one for ya.

I do realize that and appreciate that some people will pay that. I do however think that those people are in a very small minority, especially since the advent of HD DVD and blu-ray. How many people in the world own MUSE players? 500?

I would love to have one but why at that price, given what else is out there?

I am not saying the sellers of those items are being unfair, I just do not think that more than 5-10 people are still in the market for a MUSE player at the current prices. If you explained MUSE to most people, including HT enthusiasts, 99% would see little value in it. Combine that with the cost and good luck.

I still watch my LD quite a bit.. It's a Panasonic LX-101.. but was never able to go the AC-3 route.. just Pro Logic..

I have a couple of discs that never got released on DVD.. one is a Bette Midler concert from 1976.

The MUSE player also needed a MUSE decoder which is a few hundred more

I....I am using the RF demodulators for the AC3 tracks but for the analog tracks should I use the optical output or the analog outs on the D704?

The coaxial digital output is the one to use on the D704. Feed it into a good DA converter. I used a Wadia when I had that machine.

The analog sound from that player is poor, so don't use that if you have a good sound system.

Can someone fill me in on how LD video is actually stored ?

I've been trying to find the info, and all I've found is that it's composite video that's been FM modulated. My question is then, how is that FM signal put on the LD ? Being CD like, I assumed the FM signal was digitised, and burnt as such, but that would make the video digital ...

Can someone enlighten me ?

Thanks :)

Laser discs have "pits" and "lands" that vary in size/length in accordance with the frequency of the signal, if I understand it correctly. This is as opposed to CDs and all later digital disc formats, which have fixed-size pits and lands to represent ones and zeroes.

So you could almost picture it as a vinyl record then ?

Didn't think you could do that nicely with optical media !

Almost every Philipino family I know has one. I assume they must have been pretty big in the Phillipines. I know that a few stores in our Chinatown rented up to the late 90's.

LD was big in south Asia. VCR's were not big because little worth recording was broadcast. It's the polar opposite of north America.

I would love to have one but why at that price, given what else is out there?

I am not saying the sellers of those items are being unfair, I just do not think that more than 5-10 people are still in the market for a MUSE player at the current prices. If you explained MUSE to most people, including HT enthusiasts, 99% would see little value in it. Combine that with the cost and good luck.

For starters, it's supply and demand. Especially the players high prices, most are not buying them for MUSE capability - but because they do the best job at normal analog laserdisc playback.

Second, unless you want the scenery discs, I wouldn't advise anyone buying MUSE for movies. Back before D-Theater, etc. when there was no choice, it was a bit different (and if you had money to piss away). Otherwise, nothing to see here, move along...

So you could almost picture it as a vinyl record then ?

Didn't think you could do that nicely with optical media !
I don't clearly understand that question, about "picturing". One thing you can do with a Standard Play/CAV Laser Disc, is you can physically see a rough indication of the content by looking at the pattern of the pits on the disc. On a CAV disc, each revolution of the disc is exactly one frame of video, and you can see each line of video and the sync pulse areas as they are encoded. It is, for example, easy to look at the surface a CAV disc and tell if it is a widescreen version!

(That is the closest to "picturing something" on a Laser Disc I could think of, and it is comparable to looking at a record where you can tell loud versus quiet parts, frequencies, etc.)

I’m very much still into laserdiscs and I wouldn’t mind a few more dts THX laserdisc titles it’s a rare thing.:cool::p

no it was not a success...just a small niche item.

Here is another format from the past to wet the appetite.

RCA SelectaVision Production Tour Part 1
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xTjCTgrGsu8

RCA SelectaVision Production Tour Part 2
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VBH1b4TO0rU

RCA Selectavision
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wzaM05RzTx4

Spring 1992 Laserdisc Catalog
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9VE76pFHJwY

Here is another format from the past to wet the appetite.

RCA SelectaVision Production Tour Part 1
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xTjCTgrGsu8

RCA SelectaVision Production Tour Part 2
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VBH1b4TO0rU

RCA Selectavision
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wzaM05RzTx4

Spring 1992 Laserdisc Catalog
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9VE76pFHJwY


LOL!

"Each disc is made of two cups of these pellets..."

:)

Its amazing how many formats are out their some like laserdisc lasted many years despite only a % of the population knew what they were.

Its amazing how many formats are out their some like laserdisc lasted many years despite only a % of the population knew what they were.

It proably wouldn't have lasted if LD wasn't performing so well in Asia. Back in the 80's I doubted LD would last much longer. Really, it suprised me that it did. I didn't know about Asian video habits back then. If you wanted a title that wasn't Star Wars or Star Trek, it could sell out and go OOP if you waited too long to order one or didn't preorder one. Titles like Planet Of The Apes was OOP for many years till a new pressing came out in the mid 90's. Music titles were notorious for being pressed in limited quanity.

In, the 80's I lived with the constant mortifying fear that LD would go away and I'd have to quit or switch to those yuck-y VeeHhhSss tapes! ;)

I've only known one person in my entire life that had a LD player, and it was the next door neighbor of one of my close grade/high school friends. We went over to their house one night, and he said we were going to watch Major League. He goes down into the cabinet to get the movie, and pulls out what appears to me to be an old vinyl record and I was like "What the hell is he doing?!" This is before I was the tech guy I am today of course. My friend goes on to say "Yeah, he's got this different kind of movie player, they're called Laser Discs. They're shaped like records but made like CD's."

I was bum-fuzzled. He also was one of the first people I ever met that had surround sound, so we watched Major League, I laughed my ass off, and was totally baffled at this guy's setup for watching movies lol. Maybe I have him to thank for the start of my obsessions?

LOL!

"Each disc is made of two cups of these pellets..."

:)

Sounds like you have issues to me LOL LOL LOL LOL

no it was not a success...just a small niche item.

Oh isn’t that shame but at least it was around properly long before you where born, so go play with PS3 in your pram.

I rented the RCA ced discs . Skipped like a record . Was like a record inside a protective
cover ..
Did not buy one , As laser disc was way better ...
Yup , Was not happy when rumours of dvd's came about ...
All history now ...
I have my Pioneer DVL-909 still . Watched African Queen (still not on dvd)And Lost world acually looked pretty good on my Sony 40"XBR/700 crt..
Did own three differant ld players and retained the last one that plays dvd also ..
Kinda neat acually ..
Bob
Those clips of rca selectavision were interesting !!Hard to sit through a movie with the skipping though ...

I rented the RCA ced discs . Skipped like a record . Was like a record inside a protective
cover ..
Did not buy one , As laser disc was way better ...
Yup , Was not happy when rumours of dvd's came about ...
All history now ...
I have my Pioneer DVL-909 still . Watched African Queen (still not on dvd)And Lost world acually looked pretty good on my Sony 40"XBR/700 crt..
Did own three differant ld players and retained the last one that plays dvd also ..
Kinda neat acually ..
Bob
Those clips of rca selectavision were interesting !!Hard to sit through a movie with the skipping though ...

I bet you wasn’t too please I was so cynical about it. I remember this chap at the laserdisc emporium telling me about Blurat I mean Bluray back around 1998? Wasn’t interested didn’t really give a hoot about Bluray or DVD at the time.

That is until around 1999 early 2000 I bought a Sony DVD player and THE THING on region 2 and was very pleased but also bitter and disappointed that laserdisc only had a few months left before the factory’s where to close down pissed off I was.

And now there’s this crap with HD-DVD and Bluray. Oh, my only wish is that both died at the same time.

I will not buy Bluray until they pry DVD from my dead cold fingers.:mad:

I still love the recation I get when I show my friends a laserdisc.

Best reaction is when it comes to a side change, wow its very quite! That is until you start up side 2 or side 2 starts up after the laser has tracked back and rotated around the disc and spindle motor picks up some speed and the delights of Apollo 13 THX laserdisc dts 5.1 starts to immerse you with sound all around you.:cool:

So my eyes were right. I thought PQ was phenomenal. :) It just didn't have the resolution which we have now. That's great to hear. Thanks.

Laserdisc did not have digital compression. However, it had plenty of analog artifacts, including chroma noise, which is a big problem on many LDs.

Laserdisc did not have digital compression. However, it had plenty of analog artifacts, including chroma noise, which is a big problem on many LDs.

My setup right now included hooking my LD player up with composite connections because it looks better than the s-video connection.

Then there's the laser rot some of my discs are going through. A slow painful death.

Laserdisc did not have digital compression. However, it had plenty of analog artifacts, including chroma noise, which is a big problem on many LDs.

Josh, how did they do sharpening on LD's when they did it? Clearly, somebody is doing some major sharpening on the Squeeze LD of Cliffhanger, for instance. It caused halos in some scenes and what looks like some processing noise. What was it?

What about the CAV discs star wars has FIVE side changes per movie before I got a player that could read both sides that set was really painfull. Its still 3 disc swaps.
To bad they never mad a stacked LD system that could read mutiple LDs.

I think if DVD had not come along when it did their may have been some cool LD players. What would be great for me would Be:
-stacked player thart could read 3-5 discs.
-build in memory to elminate the side change.(I recall a player that did this)
-built in RF demodulatior so you could hook the player up to a modern amplifier.

I think if their were some type of memory built into LD players. They would be able to emulaite what DVD can do. Prehapps loading some type of menu system on to this memory allowing you to pick every thing that would be on the DVD version

If MUSE would have been given more time it could have been brilliant.prehapps outdoing HD-DVD and Blu-ray as many of the digtal artifacts and commpression issues might become elimnated.

The squezze LD was really the first attempt at anamorphic WS. As the "Bars" were not part of the film it self. Again oif given time could have been much better then it was. I've been meaning to pick up a few squezze LDs but most are so expensive. But I may just to give it a spin. I wonder which one is the Best overall?

Homer, they did make an LD player that loaded two discs and played the 4 sides consecatively, the LD-W1 is I think the model....? I really wanted one back in the 80's but they were way too expensive for me. I remember them being over $1000.

I thought I had read somthing about a 2 disc player. A 3 disc would have been slightly better for the star wars definitive collection. Which each movie spaned 3 discs over 5 sides..
Anyway the format came a long ways but made a few backsteps along the way

What about the CAV discs star wars has FIVE side changes per movie before I got a player that could read both sides that set was really painfull. Its still 3 disc swaps.
To bad they never mad a stacked LD system that could read mutiple LDs.


Well, 2 could drop down at the same time, so that would be annoying.

Think back to a day when all movies were pan and scan on video cassette. Movies on cassette typically cost about $60 and were marketed more to mom and pop rental places than the home buyer.

Then along came laserdisc. You could actually buy a movie that was shown in its original aspect ratio and was mastered to improve video quality. Audio was even in surround sound and later on in AC3 or more rarely DTS. You also had extra features and directors commentary as well as some amazing boxed sets with truly beautiful packaging and inserts.

This was the first format for true videophiles in a day when people didnt even know what pan and scan was and thought that those black bars on your screen only made the picture smaller.

Yes it was a success, it was never a leading format but it held on for a loooooong time and was finally killed off by DVD.

My brother bought almost all his LaserDiscs through Columbia House! They had some great deals at the time with lots of 2 for 1s and free discs with your points.

I have an LD-S1 and a large collection of laserdiscs.

PS: I remember back in the day seeing a RCA SelectaVision display with a tv with a RCA SelectaVision playing as well as several movies for sale at Walmart!

Homer, they did make an LD player that loaded two discs and played the 4 sides consecatively, the LD-W1 is I think the model....? I really wanted one back in the 80's but they were way too expensive for me. I remember them being over $1000.

The LD-W1 was a nice machine - held 2 discs so you could play a long film without ever having to manually change discs. The player had the same picture circuitry as the LD-S1, including the 8-bit 4X sampling digital video effects - the LD-W1 stayed in Pioneer's line-up for a LONG time and towards the end of its lifetime, around 1990 or so, had dropped to an MSRP of $450 - that's when I bought mine. By that time Pioneer had also improved the firmware so the player changed sides a bit faster and didn't grab the LaserVision logo as the end-of-side freeze-frame while it changed sides. There was an industrial version of the LD-W1 that was white and had a subcode output, which the consumer model didn't - it had slightly better build quality too. The only outputs on the LD-W1 were composite video and two sets of audio - it had a computer control port though and the "SR" remote control system - no coax or Toslink digital outputs or S-Video since it was made before S-Video became available.

The side-changing mechanism was unique - the entire thing turned over - the turntable motor and everything else was on a platform that could do a 360, unlike all other players that had a "U" shaped side-changing mechanism and only the laser changed sides. I think someone on YouTube might have a video of the side changing in action. The UK LaserDisc Archive might have it too.

So the entire thing turned over must have been a massive machine in order to do this

no it was not a success...just a small niche item.
It had a considerable market share in Japan and HK. Don't know about the US or the rest of the world. It was a very small niche format in Gemany, but I know from friends that in France and UK more people knew about and bought into it.

Compared with Blue-Ray and HD-DVD the number of released titles is still (very) impressive, let alone that it lasted >20 years.

I'm still jealous about the LD users and all the their pretty Walt Disney exclusive LDs with content not available on VHS,DVD or Blu-Ray.

But at least I own HD-DVD which is in some way the new Laserdisc with exclusive content like the 5.Disc THX Edition of Pan's Labyrinth, pretty DVD/HD-DVD combo discs like Happy Feet, Shrek3 with all it's online and offline content and the Transformers 2.Disc edition. :)

Homer, they did make an LD player that loaded two discs and played the 4 sides consecatively, the LD-W1 is I think the model....? I really wanted one back in the 80's but they were way too expensive for me. I remember them being over $1000.
Would the LC-V50, V80 or LC-V330 (http://www.laserdiscarchive.co.uk/laserdisc_archive/pioneer/pioneer_lc-330/pioneer_lc-330.htm) match your requirements? ;)

According to Wiki, LD had the following penetration:

USA - 2%

Japan - 10%

So it was niche all the way. But if you go back in this thread you will see posts referring to the fact that LD "birthed" all of the improvements that were to come with DVD:

Multichannel Digital Audio

Anamorphic Transfer

Navigation Features

TTeich,
How many discs could that tank of a player play?

Now that would be crazy to have in one's home theater. You'd have to build a room just for that. Ha

Would the LC-V50, V80 or LC-V330 (http://www.laserdiscarchive.co.uk/laserdisc_archive/pioneer/pioneer_lc-330/pioneer_lc-330.htm) match your requirements? ;)

That would be a pretty cool thing for my home theater. Sad it doesn't have S-VIDEO and Digital audio out.

TTeich,
How many discs could that tank of a player play?

Now that would be crazy to have in one's home theater. You'd have to build a room just for that. Ha
I think the LC-80 stores around 120 LDs. I have no idea about the LC-330. Probably 330? :D

I think the LC-80 stores around 120 LDs. I have no idea about the LC-330. Probably 330? :D

I think I recall music television stations using a lot of those multi disc LD changers. Creating play list, and alternating each video segment between 2 changers.

According to Wiki, LD had the following penetration:

USA - 2%

Japan - 10%

So it was niche all the way. But if you go back in this thread you will see posts referring to the fact that LD "birthed" all of the improvements that were to come with DVD:

Multichannel Digital Audio

Anamorphic Transfer

Navigation Features

That number for Japan seems too low - back in 1986 or so I recall seeing a figure from TV Digest that LD penetration in Japan was something like 15% - and the format had been on the market in Japan for only 4 years by then. When VHD was discontinued by JVC in 1991, it had a total market penetration of 10% and LaserDisc was handily outselling it and still growing - and had throughout the life of the format - so Wiki's number is way too low. Here, in LD's first two years on the market, only 5000 players were sold which makes HD-DVD and Blu-ray look like runaway best sellers! RCA's CED sold 500,000 in its three years on the market - that's for RCA's players only - I've never seen sales numbers for the other companies that produced their own machines.

Anyway, back to Japan - up until the early to mid 1990's (I can't recall exactly when it changed) it was illegal to rent movies in Japan and, like America, the prices of pre-recorded movies on VHS and Beta were very high - so, LaserDisc was an instant success there due to the low cost of the discs. I used to just drool with envy when I'd flip through Japanese LD catalogs - and the weird thing was, certain Japanese stores would have discs that no other store had - so you had to have catalogs from every major store to make sure you saw everything that was available! The Instant Replay in MA was a great source for imports - in the early days, 1984 or so, the Dollar was really strong against the Yen so discs were not expensive from Japan at all - I remember buying the Japanese LD's of Poseidon Adventure and African Queen and they were only a dollar or two more than an American LaserDisc release. Luckily, at the end, prices were dropping again due to the market dying - I got the Japanese box set of the Airport series for $35 and a whole bunch of gold-tinted "Rental Only" LD's from Japan for $3 each. Interesting that when renting was finally allowed they copied the plans the American studio's tried with tape back in 1981/82 - Rental Only titles - I think the Rental Only discs cost the rental places more so that the studio could 'make up' the sales money they would lose to the rentals - and I believe it was illegal to rent for-sale-only discs since they didn't have the rental 'tax' paid to the studios built into the price.

Success!! I was only too glad to throw away my HI-FI VHS.

Digital Sound!

Skipping tracks!

No Tracking!

No Rewind!

Eventual AC-3 Dolby Digital (remember how they have DD trailers at the beginging of the encoded discs?)!

I still have mine in the rack. Second from the top of the line Pioneer Elite, the CLD-79. Basically the only diff on the 99 was the Urushi finish panels on the sides. Stacked with features:

http://www.laserdiscarchive.co.uk/laserdisc_archive/pioneer/pioneer_elite_cld-79/ecld-79.jpg

Elite Laser Disc Player Features CLD-79

SYSTEM

3-Optical Disc Compatibility
(LD, CDV, CD)
Both-Side Play Gamma-Turn

AUDIO FEATURES

Legato Link Conversion
1-Bit DLC D/A Converter
Direct CD
Signal-to-Noise Ratio 115dB
Dynamic Range 98dB
Display Off
CX Noise Reduction System

VIDEO FEATURES

Horizontal Resolution (Lines) 425
Video Signal-to-Noise Ratio 51dB
DVP (Digital Video Processing)
System
V-DNR
(Variable Digital Noise Reduction)
Digital TBC (Time Base Corrector)
Digital Comb Filter 3-Line
Digital Field Memory

CONVENIENCES

Special Play Functions:

Film Mode
Repeat Mode 7
Program Play (Chapter/Track; 24 Steps)
Multi-Speed Play (Forward/Reverse; 4 Steps CAV/CLV/CDV
Still/Step (Forward/Reverse) CAV/CLV/CDV
One-Shot Memory
Random Play
Last Memory with Review Mode

Scan/Search Functions:

10-Key Direct Search and Play (Chapter/Track)(Remote)
Frame/Time Number Search
Intro/Hi-Lite Scan

Display:

On Screen Information Display (24 Characters x 10 Lines)
On Screen Level Meter Display
On-Screen Contents Calendar
FL Display Off

Other Special Functions:

Remote Control Unit With Illuminated Jog & Shuttle (Remote)
Still and Sound
Independent CD Tray

TERMINALS

RF Output for Dolby Surround AC-3
S-Video Output (Gold Plated) 2
Audio Output (Gold Plated) 2
Video Output (Gold Plated) 2
(Optical/Coaxial) O/C
SR Input/Output

I lucked out too, because as new recievers such as mine (Elite VSX-92) don't have built in AC-3 RF demodulation, but my brother had a stand alone RF demodulator made by Pioneer, the RFD-1 so I still get to enjoy the DD track on my new processor. Nice. And the VSX 92 will upconvert analog video, so I even get to watch em in 1080i. I also lucked out as one of my audio buddies was going to.....get this.....toss his whole collection. I took em. Over a hundred titles including some nice box sets and Criterion stuff. Very cool. I'm working on getting my brothers too.

So there you have it. For many years it did the job much better than VHS, but I was lucky. The audio store that I bought all my gear from, rented LD's so I didn't have to buy too many right off the bat as that was quite the expensive proposition when discs could reach $100. I enjoyed them then, and continue to do so now.

@ Disclord

Awesome player. I wanted one of those so hard some years ago (mainly because of the StarWars Laserdiscs with the big character faces on the front cover).

How does an upconverted Laserdisc look like? Is it comparable to DVD or even better (most of the Laserdiscs are encoded in a more pleasing way than their DVD counterfeits)?

@ Disclord

Awesome player. I wanted one of those so hard some years ago (mainly because of the StarWars Laserdiscs with the big character faces on the front cover).

How does an upconverted Laserdisc look like? Is it comparable to DVD or even better (most of the Laserdiscs are encoded in a more pleasing way than their DVD counterfeits)?

Depends on a lot of factors but mainly its the players. The high-end ones are really good. But they cost so much.

If you had a perfectly mastered/pressed LD and a perfectly mastered/encoded DVD, the DVD would win every time - LD's high-end luminance response is simply not flat so small details are reproduced with less contrast than DVD, making the picture look softer - and LD's horizontal chroma resolution is limited to 50 lines for full-color and 120 lines for Orange-Cyan. DVD simply blows LD away in visible chroma resolution and sharpness and it gives DVD's picture an overall 'pop' that makes LD look somewhat pale and 'smudged'. Even at the end, when LD encoding was at its best, LD didn't like highly saturated chroma and 75% saturation was still frowned upon in mastering. That's not a problem with DVD, and it shows up clearly in side-by-side comparisons. There were some late-era LD's that were made with much greater chroma bandwidth but unless you have a system with an NTSC decoder that can deal with that much chroma you won't see the benefits. Faroudja's stand-alone processors could handle it since they were SuperNTSC units and the LD's were encoded with Faroudja's SuperNTSC encoders. The Japanese-only HLD-X9 had a comb-filter with an optional mode available that was designed for LaserDisc's encoded with SuperNTSC's extended chroma bandwidth - I think the setting was called "C-Wide" or something like that.

Also, all but the absolute best LD players - or the early ones without any form of video noise reduction - suffered from the effects of video noise reduction - darker or out-of-focus areas of the image, with limited contrast transitions, seem to suffer from a 'busy' look due to the NR. It was worse with analog NR, especially that contained in the LD-S1, LD-W1 and CLD-1010, which all used the same NR circuit. The CLD-909 was Pioneer's last LD player to have NO video NR whatsoever. The LD players with digital NR improved this quite a bit to where it wasn't really much of a problem. The digital Y/C NR in Panasonic's LX-1000u was really good - it was almost transparent but had the unfortunate side-effect of making discs with inclusions look WORSE - the speckles seemed to be emphasized and laid over the image - like a really clean image had been overlaid with speckles. I couldn't watch my MCA DiscoVision titles on that player. In the Stereo Review test of the LX-900, David Randa reported that Panasonic had fixed the speckle-enhancement problem and produced a player that had a really 'quiet' image - he felt it rivaled even the high-end Japanese only machines. I never saw it in person so I don't know if that was an accurate claim or not.

Anyway - there is one area where LD's up-convert or convert to progressive better than DVD - that is combing. For whatever reason, LD's don't seem to have as many disruptions of the 3/2 sequence as DVD's do - and some DVD encoders add disruptions at chapter changes - and LD producers seemed to go out of their way to make sure the 3/2 encoding was correct - for example, THX made sure that the Definitive Collection transfers had no hanging fields at any point - too bad they weren't so careful with other aspects of the discs!

Blinx - so you don't have an LD player? You should take the plunge! Even the low-end players were not awful and blew SuperVHS and ED-Beta out of the water on every level. Find a cheap Panasonic DVD-RAM set-top recorder on eBay and use it for its comb-filter when playing LD's. I don't know how it would compare in performance to the one Japanese LD player that has 5 NTSC comb-filters in it, but it handily out-performs anything offered in American-market LD players. Collecting LD is FUN because there is so much available and in the vast majority of cases, it's SUPER CHEAP.

So, if you haven't gotten into LD yet, don't let any of what I say discourage you from taking a chance on LD - putting the differences into words makes them seem MUCH worse than they really are. Even early MCA DiscoVision discs can look stupendous when upconverted via a high-quality system. I recently watched the somewhat-rare MCA DiscoVision release of Looking For Mr. Goodbar on my Sanyo Z3 projector - MCA's technicians transfered the film to disc full-frame and thus left the soft-matte in place - so, zooming the film to 16x9 worked perfectly since this is what was done theatrically too. Using a high-quality comb-filter NTSC artifacts were pretty much non-existant and my partner was shocked at how "film-like" the image looked - he couldn't believe a DiscoVision disc could look so good. So, even old stuff can look great on LD.

I don't own any LD nor a player till date but I will buy one in the not so far future.

I'm not looking for a cheap player however. I want an upper class Pioneer LD player.

My intention is to collect a big ammount of cartoons (especially Tom&Jerry and Walt Disney one), Muppet Show discs and StarWars. I would also like to have "The Man Who Would Be King" (featuring Sean Connery) if it's available on LD.


BTW: I own a SEGA MegaCD2 (Pal version of the SegaCD toploader). So maybe one of those Pioneer Lasersystems would be an option for me.

I don't own any LD nor a player till date but I will buy one in the not so far future.

I'm not looking for a cheap player however. I want an upper class Pioneer LD player.

My intention is to collect a big ammount of cartoons (especially Tom&Jerry and Walt Disney one), Muppet Show discs and StarWars. I would also like to have "The Man Who Would Be King" (featuring Sean Connery) if it's available on LD.


BTW: I own a SEGA MegaCD2 (Pal version of the SegaCD toploader). So maybe one of those Pioneer Lasersystems would be an option for me.

The Pioneer LaserActive System, if you can get a player and the various cartridges for a good price, is pretty cool. If you do go that route, let me know and I'll make you a DVD copy of the LaserActive introduction LD. The LaserActive player actually had the capability of doing full FX on CLV discs but the remote didn't supply that functionality, so you can buy a full-feature remote from another LD player and gain access to those features!

Quality-wise, I don't know how the LaserActive player ranks. If you have the money to spend you might as well go for the HLD-X9 - then you could even get a MUSE decoder and Hi-Vision LD's.

One warning - don't get hooked on MCA DiscoVision! It's a maddening hobby because some titles are sooooo hard to find and getting good copies is even harder. I say it half-jokingly because most people would not get into LD at this stage of the game and have any interest in collecting DiscoVision! But it is a fun part of the hobby - I have pretty much every MCA DiscoVision title ever pressed, including test-pressings and I still love going through and watching my discs - reading the DiscoVision Silver Catalog, etc... there is something that is still 'magical' about DiscoVision for me - probably because it was the very first LD's on the market and was accompanied by so much hope and promise - and fell apart rather quickly!

Are there Muppet Show LD's that are not on DVD? I thought all of them had been released so far... the DVD's ARE weird with their chroma - it seems to 'dissapear' in parts of the image sometimes on the Muppets faces - like Piggy's face in certain scenes, a lightly shadowed area of her face will be in black and white... I wonder if the LD's are like that? It's a very weird artifact that I have never seen before from any NTSC signal.

When collecting titles, if there is a choice, go for the CAV as opposed to the CLV/CAA Extended Play - for example, the full-face Star Wars CLV releases - I'd pick the CAV Definitive Collection over the CLV's any day - the tranfers are the same and you don't have to change sides as often but CAV has a major advantage over CLV in terms of video S/N and Chroma Noise. As much as 5db or so - video frequency response is flatter too - plus, crosstalk is absolutely invisible at all times with the CAV format. I disliked the Extended Play format, even with CAA formatting, because of the crosstalk problem. And I've never felt bothered in the least by flipping discs every 20-30 minutes.

I can't wait till you get a player and can start sharing all your exciting discovery's, as a new owner of the format, with all of us here.

Ok. I changed my mind. I think I can't live with HD and component connections so maybe I'll go the Hi-Vision road :)

Yeah,right. All Muppet episodes were already released on DVD but I want the Laserdiscs as they feature these awesome looking covers (that and the analogue audio is why I prefer Vinyl over CD-Audio at any rate, by the way).

I already read about the differences between CLV and CAV some years ago. CAV was the newer one,right?

PS: Could you give me an advice on a Laserdisc database? I can't find one that lists all titles properly. I'm still searching for "The Man Who Would Be King". I hope it was ever released. Else I'll have to stick to either the Super8 (16mm) or the DVD version.

EDIT: Just edited my signature. I have some fun while waiting for some good Laserdisc deals and the money to afford it. :)
Since the page I'm referring to is in German my text is in plain German too (but can be easily translated).

here is the database that you want to use

http://www.lddb.com/


do a search on your movie , it is for sale from on of the shops using the database

gary

LaserDisc was around for 20 years. It never became a mainstream format, but for the movie lover it was the best there was for a long time. Widescreen movies, director's cuts, audio commentaries; better picture quality and sound...all of these were available on LD only. A side break never bothered me at all, and the player wasn't much bigger than a VCR.

I got a player in 1989 and still occasionally use it to play the few discs I still own (all stuff not on DVD or on DVD in some sort of inferior or compromised version only) and it was well worth the investment at the time. For nearly a decade I didn't have to watch panned and scanned VHS movies like everyone else I knew did.

When DVD was on the horizon, I knew it would kill LD, but I didn't care as I knew it was going to be better, and it was. Lots of LD owners at the time didn't want to let go, but I embraced DVD no problem.

So yes, it was a success in its own world. Not as big as VHS or DVD, but so what? If McDonalds sells 100 billion Big Macs in a period of time but only 10 million Filet O Fish sandwiches, that doesn't mean the Filet O Fish is a failure. It just means they sold less.

I never let go. But, I also embraced DVD. I use LD, DVD, BD, and HD-DVD in my theater today often. :)

here is the database that you want to use

http://www.lddb.com/


do a search on your movie , it is for sale from on of the shops using the database

gary

Thanks man.

Very interesting database. Strange that no other site even seem to know the movie I'm searching for (not to speak of a cover art).

Ok. I changed my mind. I think I can't live with HD and component connections so maybe I'll go the Hi-Vision road :)

Yeah,right. All Muppet episodes were already released on DVD but I want the Laserdiscs as they feature these awesome looking covers (that and the analogue audio is why I prefer Vinyl over CD-Audio at any rate, by the way).

I already read about the differences between CLV and CAV some years ago. CAV was the newer one,right?

PS: Could you give me an advice on a Laserdisc database? I can't find one that lists all titles properly. I'm still searching for "The Man Who Would Be King". I hope it was ever released. Else I'll have to stick to either the Super8 (16mm) or the DVD version.

EDIT: Just edited my signature. I have some fun while waiting for some good Laserdisc deals and the money to afford it. :)
Since the page I'm referring to is in German my text is in plain German too (but can be easily translated).

I hadn't thought about the covers aspect - I've been into the format for so long I tend to take it for granted - LD covers WERE great - and with the low prices now it's super affordable to buy an LD just for the cover-art.

CAV came first - the first LD's on the market in 1978 were ALL CAV - so a typical movie was 3-discs on 5-sides - for $15.95 or $9.95 if it was a TV movie or film before 1960 or so. What a deal it was, too! CLV was fully specified at the formats launch, but MCA hadn't perfected the mastering process yet - the first Extended Play title was pulled off the shelves right after the launch - and they only managed to get 150 'good' copies pressed. It took 2 years before CLV Extended Play became the norm for new releases. Although listed in the original MCA DiscoVision catalog, Warner Brothers wouldn't even let MCA release any of their films unless they were Extended Play - thus, when it was ready, DiscoVision pressed Warner's "Deliverance" as a 'test' to show them the final result. They messed up side 3 though - even though it IS extended play, it's coded with frames and the CAV code so a player thinks it's CAV and doesn't lock out special effects modes. Deliverance is a good collectible DiscoVision disc.

The Man Who Would Be King was released on LD in the early 90's I believe. Start looking on eBay!:)

So yes, it was a success in its own world. Not as big as VHS or DVD, but so what? If McDonalds sells 100 billion Big Macs in a period of time but only 10 million Filet O Fish sandwiches, that doesn't mean the Filet O Fish is a failure. It just means they sold less.

I love Laserdisc and Filet-O-Fish! :):p;):D:o

I never let go. *edit* I use LD, DVD, BD, and HD-DVD in my theater today often.

Me too, and add VHS, I just love collecting movies...

Ok, Disclord.

If CAV discs aren't missing any content and are indeed better (picture quality wise) I'll buy this version of a movie if I can get it.

EDIT: How does the 1995 CBS/FOX CLV release of StarWars The Return Of The Jedi (the one with the Yoda face on the cover) compare to the latest StarWars DVD (original theatrical + new cut) ?

Me too, and add VHS, I just love collecting movies...

I'm in a quandry with VHS. I never really acquired another SVHS VCR for the theater. The old one is firmly in the living room. :)

It has come up a couple of times too, where I would of liked to give it a shot in the theater too.

Ok, Disclord.

If CAV discs aren't missing any content and are indeed better (picture quality wise) I'll buy this version of a movie if I can get it.

EDIT: How does the 1995 CBS/FOX CLV release of StarWars The Return Of The Jedi (the one with the Yoda face on the cover) compare to the latest StarWars DVD (original theatrical + new cut) ?

Oh, no contest, the DVD is better - but the LD is the 'original' version of the film and not Lucas' 'fixed-up' stuff as the DVD is. The LD does have the original 2-channel Dolby Stereo mix, which was the last LD to do so. The DVD is the 70mm 6-track Mag mix with 'tweaks' and stuff added to bring it up to "modern day quality' (gag!).

Have any of you done a lot of copying of LaserDisc to DVD? I've done a lot of titles and found a weird problem... on older stuff, like pre-D1 digital video transfers, I can make really nice looking DVD's... pretty much identical to their LD originals. But on later stuff, like THX LD editions that use D1 digital masters, my DVD copies are filled with all kinds of aliasing and line-twitter, which is made worse when viewed in progressive-scan - even Faroudja DCDI processing can't get rid of it. At first I thought it was my DVD recorder but then I had the exact same thing happen using my Sony VAIO to record - then Fox released DVD's of the "original" versions of the Star Wars films with non-anamorphic transfers taken from the D1 masters of the THX Definitive Collection LaserDiscs - and they have all the jaggies and twittering just like my LD copies do! I remember reviewers complained about this aspect of the DVD's too - so that told me it wasn't my recording or my viewing set-up. Is there something about these early D1 recordings that make re-encoding to digital from analog prone to artifacts? Like some sort of aliasing that isn't visible but is uncovered when re-recording to digital?

It's weird - am I the only one who's had this problem?

Oh, no contest, the DVD is better - but the LD is the 'original' version of the film and not Lucas' 'fixed-up' stuff as the DVD is. The LD does have the original 2-channel Dolby Stereo mix, which was the last LD to do so. The DVD is the 70mm 6-track Mag mix with 'tweaks' and stuff added to bring it up to "modern day quality' (gag!).

Really? Even better than the original theatrical cut on DVD? I think the original cut on DVD is Full-Screen only so maybe I give the LD with it's 2.35:1 aspect ratio and Dolby AC3 audio a try.

BTW: Another movie on my wishlist is Lion King.
I could get a German non-THX version easily and cheap but the question is:

Is this version based on a better master (as I heard someone saying in a LaserDisc forum) or is it worsened (like someone said to me 3 years ago)?

Also some pages mention it's in 2.35:1 vs the 1.85:1 US version.

Really? Even better than the original theatrical cut on DVD? I think the original cut on DVD is Full-Screen only so maybe I give the LD with it's 2.35:1 aspect ratio and Dolby AC3 audio a try.

BTW: Another movie on my wishlist is Lion King.
I could get a German non-THX version easily and cheap but the question is:

Is this version based on a better master (as I heard someone saying in a LaserDisc forum) or is it worsened (like someone said to me 3 years ago)?

Also some pages mention it's in 2.35:1 vs the 1.85:1 US version.

The LD transfers of the THX Definitive Collection CAV and Full-face CLV versions are the same one that was used on the non-animorphic DVD. The DVd is widescreen 2.35 but it is non-anamorphically enhanced - so it's letterboxed within a 4x3 image, just like the LD. The audio is 2-channel like the LD too. The 'original' version on DVD is a 'bonus feature' of the re-released DVD of the Jedi Special Edition. So, on the DVD you get the fixed up Jedi with anamorphic enhancement and the original version with no anamorphic enhancement - both are 2.35 though.

The Lion King was released theatrically in the 1.66:1 aspect ratio - the DVD duplicates this as does the AC-3 LD. The DVD looks better.

The LD transfers of the THX Definitive Collection CAV and Full-face CLV versions are the same one that was used on the non-animorphic DVD. The DVd is widescreen 2.35 but it is non-anamorphically enhanced - so it's letterboxed within a 4x3 image, just like the LD. The audio is 2-channel like the LD too. The 'original' version on DVD is a 'bonus feature' of the re-released DVD of the Jedi Special Edition. So, on the DVD you get the fixed up Jedi with anamorphic enhancement and the original version with no anamorphic enhancement - both are 2.35 though.

The Lion King was released theatrically in the 1.66:1 aspect ratio - the DVD duplicates this as does the AC-3 LD. The DVD looks better.

Yeah, but for which price ;)

The laserdisc cover looks better and every version features somethings the DVD doesn't feature (supplement wise).

I think I'll give both Laserdiscs a try. The 2006 limited DVD version of all 3 StarWars episodes isn't bad and all 3 cases feature a nice cover but there aren't that much features on it.

My mainconcern why I would like to buy into Laserdisc: Every single Walt Disney movie on Laserdisc is completed with bonus features that can't be found on any other format.

Yeah, but for which price ;)

The laserdisc cover looks better and every version features somethings the DVD doesn't feature (supplement wise).

I think I'll give both Laserdiscs a try. The 2006 limited DVD version of all 3 StarWars episodes isn't bad and all 3 cases feature a nice cover but there aren't that much features on it.

My mainconcern why I would like to buy into Laserdisc: Every single Walt Disney movie on Laserdisc is completed with bonus features that can't be found on any other format.

True - the only DVD's I know where the special features exactly duplicated the LD's are T2 Ultimate Edition, and Alien Quadrilogy which came with the bonus disc of LD supplements. The Abyss DVD has the same supplements too.

What features are on the full-cover CLV versions of the Star Wars films that aren't on either the Definitive Collection LD or the DVD's? I thought the CLV's were just the movies only?

The Lion King CAV LD box set was beautiful - as was The Nightmare Before Christmas, which came with that nice hardcover book. I've had The Lion King box set for years and years and didn't even know it was AC-3 until last year - I bought it for $10 bucks when Pioneer was closing everything out - I put it on the shelf without ever looking at it. I got the E.T. Box Set for $19 from Pioneer too - it was great when they threw open their warehouse for clearance!

Some people think it's silly to start collecting LD now, but I don't - it's not an expensive hobby to get into and discs are so cheap you can buy pretty much anything you want without worrying about cost. And there are things on LD that won't ever be on DVD - like Olivia-Physical - all the video's from Physical have been released on DVD, but NOT with their original soundtracks from the Physical video-album, nor are they put together into a seamless 'program' like Physical. Then there are the ABBA video's - which look and sound better on LD - they were re-transfered for DVD and have some weird visual anomalies that are not present on the DiscoVision or the GOLD/MORE ABBA GOLD LD's. Plus the LD's are 16-bit LPCM but the DVD's are 192 kbps AC-3.

Have you checked out Doug Pratt's LD reviews? He's been reviewing LD's since 1984 or so and they are all available on his website. www.dvdlaser.com (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/www.dvdlaser.com)

The CLV version of Star Wars features an opening by Leonard Maltin (the same guy who did the openings on all Disney True Life Adventures and Disney Treasures titles and also the opening to the Adventures Of Robin Hood on DVD and HD-DVD).


I won't buy the Lion King CAV LD just now as I'm located in Europe and already threw out hundreds of custom taxes since the beginning of the year :)

I haven't checked out Dougs page but will do now. Thanks.

PS: Also a very big thankyou to all who clicked on the link in my signature. You really helped me in leveling up my character. Keep up the good work.


EDIT: Damn. Just looked up a PAL disc list. PAL discs seem to have slightly sharper pictures due to the higher resolution and bandwidth but because of the higher bandwidth they do have less - no supplements. Seems like I'll collect NTSC LDs then:) I think the Lion King PAL CLV is still worth a shot for me as it's another cover and a sharper image minus the analogue track (most of the PAL movies are digital only).

LD's high-end luminance response is simply not flat so small details are reproduced with less contrast than DVD, making the picture look softer - and LD's horizontal chroma resolution is limited to 50 lines for full-color and 120 lines for Orange-Cyan.
:eek:

Well, so much for LD becoming my new crazy hobby! That's approaching VHS chroma resolution, isn't it?

The CLV version of Star Wars features an opening by Leonard Maltin (the same guy who did the openings on all Disney True Life Adventures and Disney Treasures titles and also the opening to the Adventures Of Robin Hood on DVD and HD-DVD).


I won't buy the Lion King CAV LD just now as I'm located in Europe and already threw out hundreds of custom taxes since the beginning of the year :)

I haven't checked out Dougs page but will do now. Thanks.

PS: Also a very big thankyou to all who clicked on the link in my signature. You really helped me in leveling up my character. Keep up the good work.


EDIT: Damn. Just looked up a PAL disc list. PAL discs seem to have slightly sharper pictures due to the higher resolution and bandwidth but because of the higher bandwidth they do have less - no supplements. Seems like I'll collect NTSC LDs then:) I think the Lion King PAL CLV is still worth a shot for me as it's another cover and a sharper image minus the analogue track (most of the PAL movies are digital only).

The problem with PAL LD's is that they were almost always taken from inferior transfers or from NTSC-to-PAL conversions. The PAL LD market was treated really shoddily and there are no PAL LD's that I know of that look better than their NTSC counterparts - the PAL LD standard had real problems with highly saturated colors - the video FM carrier causes beats into the color requiring the mastering to be backed off in chroma level or luma frequency response. PAL LD's can also show interference in the video from the PCM audio. NTSC LD has none of these problems. It's why lot's of serious LD collectors in the UK and such imported so much from America and Japan, even if the title was released in PAL.

After 1986 the analog audio carriers were dropped from the PAL LD standard to make room for CD format PCM tracks... analog was never used again on a PAL disc.

I used to watch Leonard Maltin's movie reviews on Entertainment Tonight back in the early 80's. I see clips of them now and think "WOW! He was LITTLE then!" He's turned into a BIG guy as he's gotten older.

What do you mean by "...already threw out hundreds of custom taxes since the beginning of the year"?

:eek:

Well, so much for LD becoming my new crazy hobby! That's approaching VHS chroma resolution, isn't it?

Oh, Good Lord no! VHS chroma resolution is only 20-30 lines, for ALL colors (yes, it's THAT bad!) - LD has full NTSC I/Q chroma bandwidth and is the only consumer composite video format to do so. It makes a major difference in overall image sharpness and quality and full color resolution was one of the big advantages of LD.

The problem with PAL LD's is that they were almost always taken from inferior transfers or from NTSC-to-PAL conversions. The PAL LD market was treated really shoddily and there are no PAL LD's that I know of that look better than their NTSC counterparts - the PAL LD standard had real problems with highly saturated colors - the video FM carrier causes beats into the color requiring the mastering to be backed off in chroma level or luma frequency response. PAL LD's can also show interference in the video from the PCM audio. NTSC LD has none of these problems. It's why lot's of serious LD collectors in the UK and such imported so much from America and Japan, even if the title was released in PAL.

After 1986 the analog audio carriers were dropped from the PAL LD standard to make room for CD format PCM tracks... analog was never used again on a PAL disc.

Thanks for all this information. I really appreciate it.

BTW: Looks like I misread something. The CLV release wasn't featuring a Leonard Maltin opening sequence but "only" a 7 minute long interview.

The price still get's me headaches. It's more expensive than most of the CAV releases I'm looking for. But that's just the StarWars factor I think.

EDIT: LD specs doesn't feature an RGB scart output,right?

Oh, Good Lord no! VHS chroma resolution is only 20-30 lines, for ALL colors (yes, it's THAT bad!) -
Yikes. Kids with crayons can produce greater chroma resolution than that. I have trouble picturing any kind of usable picture with 1:10 chroma to luminance resolution ratio.

I mean we're talking one line of resolution per horizontal inch of screen.

Yikes. Kids with crayons can produce greater chroma resolution than that. I have trouble picturing any kind of usable picture with 1:10 chroma to luminance resolution ratio.

I mean we're talking one line of resolution per horizontal inch of screen.

Look at the image closely and you'll see that only large objects are in full color - the rest are in B/W with VHS. With full NTSC, like LD - and if your set does full I/Q demodulation, medium-sized objects are reproduced in some shade of orange or cyan. For large detail, NTSC is full 3 color - for medium sized details its only two color and for small details, B/W only.

That terrible color resolution is one of the reasons the consumer videotape formats - even SuperVHS, Hi-8 and ED-Beta, look so bad. Only LD encoded full-bandwidth NTSC I/Q color. Sadly, up until the mid 1990's or so televisions, even big-screens, only decoded NTSC on the R-Y/B-Y axis, also known as 'equiband' color decoding - which means 50 lines, maximum. Even today, few decode on the I/Q axis with full bandwidth. So, they are throwing away full half of the chroma information. And that Orange-Cyan two-color reproduction is important for a good picture.

Sad, huh? Here's a link with some GREAT info on Color Resolution. It's the "Dirty Secret" of the consumer television industry.
http://members.aol.com/ajaynejr/vidcolor.htm

Of course, with DVD and component connections, we are finally getting good color resolution! And the HD formats are positively heavenly!

Thanks for all this information. I really appreciate it.

BTW: Looks like I misread something. The CLV release wasn't featuring a Leonard Maltin opening sequence but "only" a 7 minute long interview.

The price still get's me headaches. It's more expensive than most of the CAV releases I'm looking for. But that's just the StarWars factor I think.

EDIT: LD specs doesn't feature an RGB scart output,right?

SCART/RGB was never used in America or Japan - S-Video is the best it gets, so for an NTSC player, no. From what I understand though, some PAL players did come with SCART connectors - I don't know if they had RGB though. Look at the PAL players in the LaserDisc Archive.
www.laserdiscarchive.co.uk (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/www.laserdiscarchive.co.uk)

Ok. Thanks.

Seems to be normal AV Scart (looked at the Telefunken specs as this is a German PAL machine and the first I could think about.) . But actually that's a good thing. So S-VIDEO is the best on LD and I don't have to feel tempted to buy into special Scart RGB equipment which I would need in order to get it working with my BARCO/SEOS 1208 projector. :)

I'm still not sure which LD player to buy. This Pioneer Hi-Vision LD/CD/DVD combo with the wooden blankets would be pretty nice indeed :D

Sadly, up until the mid 1990's or so televisions, even big-screens, only decoded NTSC on the R-Y/B-Y axis, also known as 'equiband' color decoding - which means 50 lines, maximum. Even today, few decode on the I/Q axis with full bandwidth. So, they are throwing away full half of the chroma information. And that Orange-Cyan two-color reproduction is important for a good picture.
Most people can't tell the difference. They got rid of I/Q decoding in the late 50's to get rid of some parts (it eliminated an expensive delay circuit) and no one complained. When it came back in the 90's, no one noticed.

When the BBC was considering NTSC color in the 60's, RCA demonstrated the two decoding methods to one of their visiting engineers. He wrote that he couldn't see any difference. I guess that's why PAL uses U/V.

Most people can't tell the difference. They got rid of I/Q decoding in the late 50's to get rid of some parts (it eliminated an expensive delay circuit) and no one complained. When it came back in the 90's, no one noticed.

When the BBC was considering NTSC color in the 60's, RCA demonstrated the two decoding methods to one of their visiting engineers. He wrote that he couldn't see any difference. I guess that's why PAL uses U/V.

I can - I think most people can but most people don't know it's due to better color - it's just a better "picture" - and when using a good comb filter, I think the benefits become much more visible because there's no dot-crawl and other nasties obscuring the two-color detail. The NTSC tests in the early 50's showed pretty clearly that at least 1-MHz was needed for a color picture not to look obviously degraded - and the more the better. Lower color resolution also makes the problems due to non-constant luminance worse.

The NHK did a lot of tests of color resolution in the 70's and found that when bandwidths were equal and above 1-MHz or so, the I/Q method held no advantages - but when unequal bandwidths were present and the bandwidth was very small for one component, like it had to be in NTSC, I/Q held an advantage over R-Y/B-Y. Originally NTSC had equal 1.2 MHz bandwidths for R-Y/B-Y but both the field-alternating and line-alternating encoding methods showed visible artifacts since the idea of using a delay-line hadn't been thought of.

For those interested in a 'quick' history of NTSC compatible color television and its development, from RCA's Dot-Sequential system to the final NTSC standard, a good paper, written by a guy who had a HUGE part in its development, is:

THE REVOLUTION AND EVOLUTION FROM DOT SEQUENTIAL TO NTSC
By B. D. LOUGHLIN
Hazeltine Corporation
IEEE Transactions on Consumer Electronics, Vol. CE-30, No. 2, May 1984

Ok. Thanks.

Seems to be normal AV Scart (looked at the Telefunken specs as this is a German PAL machine and the first I could think about.) . But actually that's a good thing. So S-VIDEO is the best on LD and I don't have to feel tempted to buy into special Scart RGB equipment which I would need in order to get it working with my BARCO/SEOS 1208 projector. :)

I'm still not sure which LD player to buy. This Pioneer Hi-Vision LD/CD/DVD combo with the wooden blankets would be pretty nice indeed :D
A Pioneer LD/CD/DVD player *with* HiVision capability does not exist. You have to make a few basic decisions before buying into LD.
- do you want PAL+NTSC capabilities, then a CLD-D925/2950, or DVL-909E/919E is your way to go
- do you want the best from NTSC LDs *plus* HiVision Muse: HLD-X9/HLD-X0
- most of the PAL discs are inferior to their NTSC counterparts, so if you're not interested in PAL, then you have a wide variety of players to chose from
- if you want to play arcade LDs, you should look around for a LD-V4300
- Sega and NEC games, combined with LaserActive -> CLD-A100
- Palcom home arcade -> different players, mostly models from the 80s

I ended up into buying a lot of players, each one serves a different purpose. My personal preference as far as picture and audio quality is: HLD-X0>HLD-X9>LD-X1>CLD-925>DVL-909.

LD-S1, CLD-A100, and LD-V4300 are running non-competitively, because I bought them for LD games.

There are a lot of side aspects to keep in mind, e.g. that it doesn't make really sense to buy a LD/DVD combo anymore. The DVD transport is cheap and players tend to be fragile, beside the fact that PQ/AQ wise the DVD portion will be beaten by $99 players easily ;)

S-Video vs. Composite: it depends on the comb filter quality of your TV set, and the technology which is built into your LD player. A definitive answer which connection to chose cannot be given before you selected a player.

Then you have your TV set to keep in mind. LD is viewed best on CRT TVs (note: some HiVision capable CRT sets exist).

Loads of questions...

Since you're located nearby, you may come over to Stuttgart and I can show you some things. Yes, I still have all players which I listed above :)

A Pioneer LD/CD/DVD player *with* HiVision capability does not exist. You have to make a few basic decisions before buying into LD.
- do you want PAL+NTSC capabilities, then a CLD-D925/2950, or DVL-909E/919E is your way to go
- do you want the best from NTSC LDs *plus* HiVision Muse: HLD-X9/HLD-X0
- most of the PAL discs are inferior to their NTSC counterparts, so if you're not interested in PAL, then you have a wide variety of players to chose from
- if you want to play arcade LDs, you should look around for a LD-V4300
- Sega and NEC games, combined with LaserActive -> CLD-A100
- Palcom home arcade -> different players, mostly models from the 80s

I ended up into buying a lot of players, each one serves a different purpose. My personal preference as far as picture and audio quality is: HLD-X0>HLD-X9>LD-X1>CLD-925>DVL-909.

LD-S1, CLD-A100, and LD-V4300 are running non-competitively, because I bought them for LD games.

There are a lot of side aspects to keep in mind, e.g. that it doesn't make really sense to buy a LD/DVD combo anymore. The DVD transport is cheap and players tend to be fragile, beside the fact that PQ/AQ wise the DVD portion will be beaten by $99 players easily ;)

S-Video vs. Composite: it depends on the comb filter quality of your TV set, and the technology which is built into your LD player. A definitive answer which connection to chose cannot be made before you selected a player.

The you have your TV set to keep in mind. LD is viewed best on CRT TVs (note: some HiVision capable CRT sets exist).

Loads of questions...

Since you're located nearby, you may come over to Stuttgart and I can show you some things. Yes, I still have all players which I listed above :)

Really? So the component output on one of those combo players is just for the DVD part?

I think I will end up in buying more than one player too.

The first LD player I'm looking for should be:

- NTSC/PAL compatible

- Feature S-VIDEO

- Pioneer branded (one of my favourite brands).

I'm not sure about the comb filter however. But my BARCO/SEOS 1208 CRT projector should at least feature Line Doubling per S-VIDEO so it won't look bad I suppose. I have the intention to use an ONKYO 875 for sound and scaling purposes later on, however.

I also have an external comb filter that is flying around somewhere so I can correct the picture if it's too noisy or the colours seem to be washed out.

And yeah,thanks. I may drop by in the near future if I can afford some time.

Really? So the component output on one of those combo players is just for the DVD part?

...
Yes, the component output is for the DVD part only.

Video on laserdisc is recorded as composite signal, so theoretically the composite output should be the best solution, as one would think the player doesn't have to process the signal apart from reading it from the LD and sending it straight to the output jack. In reality, almost all players split the video signal internally into Y/C (S-Video), process it more or less heavily afterwards, and send it to the S-Video ouput / or just recombine it at the end of the processing chain go get a composite signal again. This is a lot of unnecessary processing using now outdated technology. Quality wise it would be preferable to have a player which "just" outputs what is read from the disc, and let the Y/C separation be done by a decent 3D comb filter externally.

However, since you want to play PAL LDs, there are not too many options, and at the beginning of your new hobby you should probably try out one of the cheap players.

Yes, the component output is for the DVD part only.

Video on laserdisc is recorded as composite signal, so theoretically the composite output should be the best solution, as one would think the player doesn't have to process the signal apart from reading it from the LD and sending it straight to the output jack. In reality, almost all players split the video signal internally into Y/C (S-Video), process it more or less heavily afterwards, and send it to the S-Video ouput / or just recombine it at the end of the processing chain go get a composite signal again. This is a lot of unnecessary processing using now outdated technology. Quality wise it would be preferable to have a player which "just" outputs what is read from the disc, and let the Y/C separation be done by a decent 3D comb filter externally.

However, since you want to play PAL LDs, there are not too many options, and at the beginning of your new hobby you should probably try out one of the cheap players.

Except for a title that wasn't released on NTSC, I can't see why anyone would want to collect PAL LD's - Pioneer and Philips treated the PAL format shoddily and the PAL LD format really needed a wider bandwidth to convey the quality the PAL system was capable of. A 1976 paper that sets the PAL LD allocation shows clearly that the FM carrier was a bit too tight a fit for LD's capability - but its all LD could do at that time. Originally, in the VLP system, Philips coded PAL on disc with a cross-band color system using a pilot-tone for color recovery - that fit a bit better on the optical disc without having excessive beats and interference between components like full-bandwidth composite PAL LD coding does.

And the weird things Pioneer and Philips did with players on the PAL market - like making a player that couldn't do special effects on CAV discs! Or making players that had no capability to play older analog-only discs. And the PAL market was the first place they added those awful circuits that drastically filtered the signal to make it 'soft' like VHS. I think they called them "HQ" circuits! BLECH!

I think they called them "HQ" circuits! BLECH!

Remember VHS HQ? Maybe they just use the same circuitry as the VHS counterpart :p

Remember VHS HQ? Maybe they just use the same circuitry as the VHS counterpart :p

I have wondered if they were trying to make the connection in the mind of consumers. The picture quality the "HQ" circuit delivered in the players certainly took on VHS characteristics! Pioneer never did that to LD players in America or Japan. I'm glad about it, but I wonder why they didn't? Of course, they never created a crippled LD player for the US or Japanese market either - their claim for dropping CAV effects in that UK player was that it allowed a lower cost, which was an absolute lie - the effects are all a normal part of the CAV tracking and in any case, the player used the exact same IC's as 'full-feature' players - the CAV effects were just disabled. Pioneer did have the LD-660 here, which couldn't do random-access, but it had all other CAV effects. It was $600 which was "low-priced" at the time!

Except for a title that wasn't released on NTSC, I can't see why anyone would want to collect PAL LD's - Pioneer and Philips treated the PAL format shoddily and the PAL LD format really needed a wider bandwidth to convey the quality the PAL system was capable of. A 1976 paper that sets the PAL LD allocation shows clearly that the FM carrier was a bit too tight a fit for LD's capability - but its all LD could do at that time. Originally, in the VLP system, Philips coded PAL on disc with a cross-band color system using a pilot-tone for color recovery - that fit a bit better on the optical disc without having excessive beats and interference between components like full-bandwidth composite PAL LD coding does.

And the weird things Pioneer and Philips did with players on the PAL market - like making a player that couldn't do special effects on CAV discs! Or making players that had no capability to play older analog-only discs. And the PAL market was the first place they added those awful circuits that drastically filtered the signal to make it 'soft' like VHS. I think they called them "HQ" circuits! BLECH!
Yes, I fully agree. Both PAL players which I own have the "High Quality" mode :D. However, Blinx123 wants PAL LD support. And from a collectors standpoint that might make sense, as Pioneer LDCE (UK) released a couple of really nice box sets with awesome artwork. I've got the impression that LDCE also took greater care of the transfer(s) when they produced their discs. --- I suggest a low end player for someone new to the party as this is perfect to try everything out, and not burn too much money if disillusion sets in after 2 hours ;). With LD, there is always room for improvement, but you have to sink some money into it.

So do all PAL players suffer from the things you mentionend ("HQ" and non-usable SFX features)?

BTW: Isn't it weird that nearly all past and present European consumer electronics are capable of NTSC but nearly no NTSC hardware is capable of doing PAL?

So do all PAL players suffer from the things you mentionend ("HQ" and non-usable SFX features)?

BTW: Isn't it weird that nearly all past and present European consumer electronics are capable of NTSC but nearly no NTSC hardware is capable of doing PAL?

Only one low-end Pioneer player was CAV crippled. And the "HQ" circuit could be turned off - you didn't have to use it.

Since America has always used the NTSC standard, as does Canada and Mexico, there's been no reason for companies to produce hardware with any other standard capability. Most people in America don't even know there are different TV standards. Unlike the UK and France, which started with different 405- and 819-line B/W standards and then moved up to 625-lines with incompatible PAL and SECAM color encoding, America always used 525-line for both B/W and later, in 1953, Compatible Color. Even the term "NTSC" was hardly used back in the day for color television advertising - it was just "color tv", and because of RCA's incredible self-promotion in the 50's, 60's and 70's, everyone always credited them with total invention of the compatible color standard even though that wasn't quite the case.

Do you, by any chance, know the name/number-key of the player that was CAV crippled?

Even with all the limitations? Dang, the better LD's still look really good in my 106' 1080p equipped theater. :)


Just thought I emphasize that point once more for those thinking about getting into collecting these things.

Even with all the limitations? Dang, the better LD's still look really good in my 106' 1080p equipped theater. :)


Just thought I emphasize that point once more for those thinking about getting into collecting these things.

Good to hear.

Do you think it would still look good on a 120" Cinemascope screen?

BTW: I think you made a typo. Or are you really using a 106' (feet) screen? ;)

Oh lord.. 106'? Now that is serious...

That would of course be 106" diagonal 16:9 screen. :)

Oh lord.. 106'? Now that is serious...

That would of course be 106" diagonal 16:9 screen. :)

Yeah, ok.

I just imagined your room with a 106' diagonal 16:9 screen. Your room would've to be as big as the biggest building in Area51 :D

For me, it was a resounding success. I had the best picture and audio quality amongst everyone that I knew. I do not regret any of the laserdisc purchases. One of the best parts is that I had lossless (PCM) audio a couple of decades before the HD-DVD and BR crowd. I love being ahead of the curve.

For me, it was a resounding success. I had the best picture and audio quality amongst everyone that I knew. I do not regret any of the laserdisc purchases. One of the best parts is that I had lossless (PCM) audio a couple of decades before the HD-DVD and BR crowd. I love being ahead of the curve.

Lossless? Isn't PCM even uncompressed ?

BTW: The audio part is one of the points I'm really looking forward to. PCM should sound great on a PCM multichannel AVR.

Lossless? Isn't PCM even uncompressed ?


Lossless and uncompressed.

Do you, by any chance, know the name/number-key of the player that was CAV crippled?
This page has a comparison table of PAL+NTSC players: http://www.laserdiscarchive.co.uk/laserdisc_archive/pioneer/pioneer_cld-d515/pioneer_cld-d515.htm

All of them play CAV and CLV, if you don't want to spend too much money (925 is still expensive, and sought-after), then the CLD-D515=Denon LA2300 or S315 might be an option.

Note: some players (like the S315) do not change sides "automagically", so you have to turn the LD manually.

The Pioneer CLD-D515 looks good (it doesn't feature optical out or S-VIDEO so I think I would have to go with composite/scart for video and analogue audio outputs then)

How much does one of the Pioneer CLD-D515 usually goes for?

I see one sold in December of 07 on the bay for like 90 Euro's.

This page has a comparison table of PAL+NTSC players: http://www.laserdiscarchive.co.uk/laserdisc_archive/pioneer/pioneer_cld-d515/pioneer_cld-d515.htm

All of them play CAV and CLV, if you don't want to spend too much money (925 is still expensive, and sought-after), then the CLD-D515=Denon LA2300 or S315 might be an option.

Note: some players (like the S315) do not change sides "automagically", so you have to turn the LD manually.

Always get the ones that can play both sides. My last two players were entry level value players from pioneer and sony and they both can flip the head over. It's a critical feature if you want to enjoy the movie. (Otoh, this is "lasery disk", and it's been a while since I felt compelled to give one a spin).

I see one sold in December of 07 on the bay for like 90 Euro's.

Wow. Nice price. I don't think I can do anything wrong with such a cheap player (only my first DVD player was cheaper than that).

One last thing: How do I get PCM/Multi-Channel PCM out of it? Do I need to use any digital outs or is it the analogue output which is capable of PCM?

How do I get PCM/Multi-Channel PCM out of it? Do I need to use any digital outs or is it the analogue output which is capable of PCM?

I can't speak to this particular laserdisc model, but in my case the player has build-in DAC, so all I do is connect the analog left and right outputs to the corresponding AVR inputs, using regular RCA cables.

As far as multi channel audio (more then 2 channels) you need a model with RF AC3 out. It looks like a digital coaixial connection. Then you amplifer will need a RF AC3 in. If the amplifer does not which many modern ones don't. You'll need a RF demodulaitor which will convert the audio into somthing your amplifer can read.

They are pretty spendy still at about $150+. Some will need a 120v to 100v converter as well

As far as multi channel audio (more then 2 channels) you need a model with RF AC3 out. It looks like a digital coaixial connection. Then you amplifer will need a RF AC3 in. If the amplifer does not which many modern ones don't. You'll need a RF demodulaitor which will convert the audio into somthing your amplifer can read.

They are pretty spendy still at about $150+. Some will need a 120v to 100v converter as well

But the AC3 output will only give me a Dolby Digital sound encoding,right?

I own a SONY PCM receiver with multichannel matrix so analogue RCA would fit best.

But the AC3 output will only give me a Dolby Digital sound encoding,right?

I own a SONY PCM receiver with multichannel matrix so analogue RCA would fit best.

Yes. As soon as you use the AC3 out, you are no longer getting lossless. Personally I never bothered with the AC3 out because I considered it a step backwards. More discrete channels, but lower sound quality.

Ok. I'll stick with the best yet cheapest and easiest then (RCA). My PCM multichannel stereo AVR should be capable of using at least 5 boxes.

If it has digital optical out? You there. Keep in mind many laserdiscs only have analog tracks and no digital audio at all.

Also keep in mind if you score a DTS LD? The decoder your digital audio output is connected to better support DTS or it can get nasty. :)

If it has digital optical out? You there. Keep in mind many laserdiscs only have analog tracks and no digital audio at all.

Also keep in mind if you score a DTS LD? The decoder your digital audio output is connected to better support DTS or it can get nasty. :)

I'll do the following: I'll connect the analogue RCA output with the input of my multichannel PCM receiver (PCM only. Dolby Digital and DTS weren't even existent when my father bought this). Then I'll link the digital output with the digital input of the ONKYO 875 I plan to buy by the end of this year.

In the videosection I'll use the REON VX chip of the ONKYO 875 for upscaling.

BTW: I could also imagine buying a ONKYO 905 but is it worth it over the 875? The difference in price is amazing if I consider that the ONKYO 905 only has a more worthy casing, multimedia connectivity and a ring based PSU.

Well.. excellent video processing never hurts using Laserdisc in this HDTV day and age.

I ran a scaler for a while. I'd like to get another one. Hard call on the in AVR video processing, it seems to get mixed reviews at best and down right trashed at worse. :)

My screen is 7-feet wide and LD's look great on it, even from an LD-1100, which has no video processing of any kind since it's such an early model. And lot's of early LD's were transfered full-frame open-matte for 1.85:1 films so they zoom up to 16x9 and fill the screen nicely giving you pretty much the original theatrical aspect ratio!

I still think LD is superior to DVD for stuff like still-frame supplements - the direct frame number search hasn't been surpassed.

My screen is 7-feet wide and LD's look great on it, even from an LD-1100, which has no video processing of any kind since it's such an early model. And lot's of early LD's were transfered full-frame open-matte for 1.85:1 films so they zoom up to 16x9 and fill the screen nicely giving you pretty much the original theatrical aspect ratio!

I still think LD is superior to DVD for stuff like still-frame supplements - the direct frame number search hasn't been surpassed.

Still frames are cool. Maybe I'll try to capture some after I've bought some Laserdiscs and the necessary player.

Can't wait to see this nicely done covers in real life :)

BTW: Anyone know the film: "Benji The Hunted" by Walt Disney Home Video?

Still frames are cool. Maybe I'll try to capture some after I've bought some Laserdiscs and the necessary player.

Can't wait to see this nicely done covers in real life :)

BTW: Anyone know the film: "Benji The Hunted" by Walt Disney Home Video?

My favorite LaserDisc covers are MCA DiscoVision and Magnetic Video - they are all just so cool looking. Even though the Magnetic Video label had been replaced by 20th Century Fox, Pioneer used the Magnetic Video jacket design when they launched LD in Japan. MCA Videodisc's covers were nice too, especially the mirror-coated cardboard ones from Japan. The early Japanese-pressed discs always had the nice mirror-coated cardboard jackets with vibrant color. The few MCA DiscoVision discs pressed in Japan, like Mission Galactica and The Wiz have beautiful jackets.

Here's a link to my LaserVision Landmarks site where you can see LD jackets from all the early labels with info on each companies releases. There's info on each company's intro into the LaserDisc market - we also included Criterion's first two discs.
http://laservideodisc.tripod.com/LaserVision/

Here's some reviews we did of "classic" LD's - under the name Phillip Stevens. If you like the movie Airport '77 you'll understand why we used that name.
http://laservideodisc.tripod.com/discreviews/index.html

Some amazing coverarts. I especially like the Walt Disney ones.

BTW: Is there a site where I can find actual screenshots/grabs of Laserdisc titles? Would be great for a picture - picture comparison between DVD and LD.

Some amazing coverarts. I especially like the Walt Disney ones.

BTW: Is there a site where I can find actual screenshots/grabs of Laserdisc titles? Would be great for a picture - picture comparison between DVD and LD.

The launch titles from all the different companies were fun - and exciting! Disney, at first, treated LD pretty badly and heavily favored the CED VideoDisc format - but when IMAGE took over for them, we started getting the really nice box sets and stuff - although the CAV box of Fantasia was a huge mistake - over 200,000 were made! At first, it was supposed to be a limited edition, but sold so well that IMAGE had many, many more pressed - they sold well, so IMAGE had even more pressed - well, everyone who wanted one had bought a copy so the market was flooded with CAV box-sets of Fantasia - the set ended up selling for as low as $9.99 in some places - and the CLV Extended Play edition became the 'rare' one - no retailer wanted to stock it with all the cheap CAV sets clogging the shelves.

LaserDisc had lot's of 'fun' little things like that happen... the disc of Mommie Dearest was also over-pressed - because someone mis-read the pressing order - it said 8,000 but was mis-read as 80,000. So it was around for years and years as a $2.00 title and Pioneer even had thousands of them in 2000 when they were selling everything out of their warehouse! Back when it happened, Paramount Home Video was very open about the mistake - I can't imagine a studio letting people know something like that nowadays.

Here is my old list for... for the people who would like to decode lossy 5.1 audio on LD!:D blah. I know that there is more units that demodulate ac-3. what are they? I dunno! let me know I'll add it to the list.

List of AC-3 RF Audio Gear (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=652457) Also in my sig.

Here is my old list for... for the people who would like to decode lossy 5.1 audio on LD!:D blah. I know that there is more units that demodulate ac-3. what are they? I dunno! let me know I'll add it to the list.

List of AC-3 RF Audio Gear (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=652457) Also in my sig.

I have the Sony EP9ES and use it for AC-3 RF demodulation and 'pass-thru' to send the demodulated PCM bitstream to my Kenwood 5090 for AC-3 decoding. It's really a shame that Pioneer didn't put the AC-3 RF demodulation chip in the players instead of requiring an outboard unit - the chip was very low cost so there was no reason they couldn't have done it that way. Heck, MSB offered upgrades for any LaserDisc player that added internal RF AC-3 demodulation to a bitstream optical or coax output. It's interesting to note that the sample rate of AC-3 on LD is 48kHz because LD always used 44.1. DTS on LD was 44.1 since it was a re-mapped stream. The sample rate of the AC-3 signal determined the final frequency the encoded QPSK carrier ended up at, since an integer ratio was used - so the AC-3 QPSK encoded RF signal is 2.88 MHz which is slightly different than the analog FM audio carrier for the Right channel which is 2.81 MHz on a standard LD.

I wish someone had a list of the AC-3 Encoder upgrades that were used on each LD release - for example, the AC-3 LD of True Lies used an updated version of AC-3 encoding that had a higher sub-band coupling-frequency. It was the first encoding algorithm update the AC-3 system LD received, I think. There was another shortly thereafter, but I can't remember the title.

How did the DANCE discrete 4-channel audio on Hi-Vision LD's sound? I know it was only 32kHz sampling for "A-Mode" DANCE so I have to assume it sounded similar to the 32kHz LP mode on DAT - except discrete 4-channel! Am I correct? DAT didn't use a Near-Instantaneous companding system though.

Ok. I'm in contact with a German laserdisc seller who could sell me his CLV StarWars The Return Of The Jedi LD. It's brand new and still factory sealed.

Anyone know if it's really worth the 39€ (shipping included)?

http://img411.imageshack.us/img411/3608/img0463yf4.jpg

http://img101.imageshack.us/img101/8566/img0465eh3.jpg

Ok. I'm in contact with a German laserdisc seller who could sell me his CLV StarWars The Return Of The Jedi LD. It's brand new and still factory sealed.

Anyone know if it's really worth the 39€ (shipping included)?

http://img411.imageshack.us/img411/3608/img0463yf4.jpg

http://img101.imageshack.us/img101/8566/img0465eh3.jpg

That's really high - have you looked on the LDDB to see if anyone else is selling it? Or eBay? Honestly, that's a title worth 10 euros, tops, which is around $15.

That's really high - have you looked on the LDDB to see if anyone else is selling it? Or eBay? Honestly, that's a title worth 10 euros, tops, which is around $15.

There are 2 on the database. One with some edgewear (rated at 7/10) for 15$ (excluding shipping) and one mint (rated at 8/10) for 35$ (excluding shipping).

I'd really doubt if one of those both is a better deal as they're both located in the US and I'd have to pay expensive shipping rates and customs.

BTW: This title is exactly the one I saw someone mentioning as to be rar some years ago. Strange.

EDIT: Anyone tried THX Neural Surround? That should make a good addition to the laserdisc specs :)

There are 2 on the database. One with some edgewear (rated at 7/10) for 15$ (excluding shipping) and one mint (rated at 8/10) for 35$ (excluding shipping).

I'd really doubt if one of those both is a better deal as they're both located in the US and I'd have to pay expensive shipping rates and customs.

BTW: This title is exactly the one I saw someone mentioning as to be rar some years ago. Strange.

EDIT: Anyone tried THX Neural Surround? That should make a good addition to the laserdisc specs :)

You have to pay customs on discs bought from the US? No fair! It's not rare - lots and lots of them were produced - it was a $5 title from Pioneer at the end.

Here's the numbers for two ebay auctions of Jedi at much lower cost - even with shipping and stuff:
120227059274
220204734195

The Neural surround system is a very, very advanced surround encoding/decoding system - it is multi-band instead of broad-band like Pro-Logic II. It applies cancellation signals in small sub-bands to recreate a much more accurate soundfield and with encoded software can recreate a pretty much discrete sounding presentation.

You have to pay customs on discs bought from the US? No fair! It's not rare - lots and lots of them were produced - it was a $5 title from Pioneer at the end.

Here's the numbers for two ebay auctions of Jedi at much lower cost - even with shipping and stuff:
120227059274
220204734195

The Neural surround system is a very, very advanced surround encoding/decoding system - it is multi-band instead of broad-band like Pro-Logic II. It applies cancellation signals in small sub-bands to recreate a much more accurate soundfield and with encoded software can recreate a pretty much discrete sounding presentation.

Ok. I'll think about it. It's just that a brand new,still sealed copy is so much more appealing :)

And yeah, I've to pay customs and taxes for things coming from the US. Pretty high customs and some additional taxes. 20% on customs and 3% in additional taxes that no one know where they're for.

Now you know why Germany is 1st on the top 100 list of weird tax countries.

Ok. I'll think about it. It's just that a brand new,still sealed copy is so much more appealing :)

And yeah, I've to pay customs and taxes for things coming from the US. Pretty high customs and some additional taxes. 20% on customs and 3% in additional taxes that no one know where they're for.

Now you know why Germany is 1st on the top 100 list of weird tax countries.

Wow, that's high! We don't have to pay any customs or taxes for stuff like LD's and that bought from other countries. When I've bought VHD discs and stuff from Japan, I've only had to pay shipping - same with stuff from Canada and the UK. It's horrible that the German government feels they are owed something when you import a used LD!

Nooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo :eek:

Why,just why? Just checked for the German Lion King deal. They erased it and so was the seller account.

The German Lion King LDs aren't that common as the American ones are :(

EDIT: Pew, at least I found the seller. Looks like he erased all his auctions. I just dropped him a line.

Lol.

Just got an answer from the Lion King seller.

He told me that Ebay erased all their auctions (of course that was an mistake by EBAY as he said;) ) and locked them for 7 days. He also told me that I could order them via mail. Usually I'd take the risk but the company's name and homepage sound suspicous.

Looks like The Lion King won't be my first Laserdisc then;) I'll wait the 7 days till ebay takes them back on track.

Lol.

Just got an answer from the Lion King seller.

He told me that Ebay erased all their auctions (of course that was an mistake by EBAY as he said;) ) and locked them for 7 days. He also told me that I could order them via mail. Usually I'd take the risk but the company's name and homepage sound suspicous.

Looks like The Lion King won't be my first Laserdisc then;) I'll wait the 7 days till ebay takes them back on track.


I've had this problem once when I was trying to unload my Japanese Star Wars LD, they assumed it's bootleg and just took them down :mad:

I've had this problem once when I was trying to unload my Japanese Star Wars LD, they assumed it's bootleg and just took them down :mad:

Yeah. Ebay is sometimes very cruel on such things. The seller told me that they found 7 products out of 180 that would violate the Ebay rules.

Maybe I can trust this company but I'll still wait for the Ebay restock since I won't pay 35$ just for the German CLV version.

Their no way to make a Bootleg of Laserdiscs so I find it odd that ebay would close the item. I asuume they don't know what a Laserdisc is

How did the DANCE discrete 4-channel audio on Hi-Vision LD's sound? I know it was only 32kHz sampling for "A-Mode" DANCE so I have to assume it sounded similar to the 32kHz LP mode on DAT - except discrete 4-channel! Am I correct? DAT didn't use a Near-Instantaneous companding system though.


The 4-Channel A-Mode was fine. I could barely discern a perceptible difference between that and the PCM track. 90% of A-Mode discs also contained a PCM track (Dolby Encoded) as well.

Very few discs did not have A-Mode and PCM. The movies with B-Mode only had B-Mode audio, whereas the museum discs had B-Mode and a PCM track as well. Go figure.

Breakfast at Tiffany's was the only disc to have a B-Mode split mono track AND an analog audio track as well.

The 4-Channel A-Mode was fine. I could barely discern a perceptible difference between that and the PCM track. 90% of A-Mode discs also contained a PCM track (Dolby Encoded) as well.

Very few discs did not have A-Mode and PCM. The movies with B-Mode only had B-Mode audio, whereas the museum discs had B-Mode and a PCM track as well. Go figure.

Breakfast at Tiffany's was the only disc to have a B-Mode split mono track AND an analog audio track as well.

I've always noticed in reviews and specs of some titles that they did that, but it really is odd they had both B-Mode AND EFM-based PCM tracks since the performance was exactly the same. Although coded differently, the B-Mode IS, for all intents and purposes, 16-bit performance, although sampled at a higher rate than the PCM tracks.

Weird about "Tiffany's" - from all the spectrum diagrams and such, I wasn't aware that Hi-Vision discs could have FM analog tracks - the carrier looks to extend right down to the edge of the 1.75 MHz EFM PCM audio carrier. Or did I misunderstand what you were saying? (which wouldn't be the first time I've done that!):)

Their no way to make a Bootleg of Laserdiscs so I find it odd that ebay would close the item. I asuume they don't know what a Laserdisc is

There actually were some 'bootleg' LaserDiscs! Amazing, isn't it? One that I personally saw was Jurassic Park - it was a transfer of a tape screener with time-code running at the bottom and the sound had Hi-Fi buzz from mistracking of the VHS Hi-Fi noise reduction. Pioneer told dealers and such to be VERY careful of these discs - that they were inferior quality and would shatter in the player, destroying it. Truth was, the discs were made in China by the same LD plant that made the red LD's for Elite Entertainment! There was nothing wrong with them from a manufacturing standpoint. It just amazes me the lies companies will make up about things like that.

If I remember correctly, Apollo 13 and Last Action Hero were among the bootlegs too - there were only 3 or so that I heard of.

I have one disc that could be considered a bootleg - it's made up of Technicolor IB trailers and stuff, made by a collector of IB Tech prints - only 100 were made. It's called "The Archival Film Disc - Trailers And Other Lost Treasures" It has CinemaScope and VistaVision promos, the first 3-Strip Technicolor short-film "La Cucaracha" and trailers of "Around The World In 80 Day's" and other large-format films - all from IB Tech prints. It's meant to show how well IB Tech transfers to video. They apparently didn't have the rights to any of the stuff on the disc and it was done by film archivist Richard W. Haines. It came with an envelope of IB Tech film frames too.

There actually were some 'bootleg' LaserDiscs! Amazing, isn't it? One that I personally saw was Jurassic Park - it was a transfer of a tape screener with time-code running at the bottom and the sound had Hi-Fi buzz from mistracking of the VHS Hi-Fi noise reduction. Pioneer told dealers and such to be VERY careful of these discs - that they were inferior quality and would shatter in the player, destroying it. Truth was, the discs were made in China by the same LD plant that made the red LD's for Elite Entertainment! There was nothing wrong with them from a manufacturing standpoint. It just amazes me the lies companies will make up about things like that.

If I remember correctly, Apollo 13 and Last Action Hero were among the bootlegs too - there were only 3 or so that I heard of.

I have one disc that could be considered a bootleg - it's made up of Technicolor IB trailers and stuff, made by a collector of IB Tech prints - only 100 were made. It's called "The Archival Film Disc - Trailers And Other Lost Treasures" It has CinemaScope and VistaVision promos, the first 3-Strip Technicolor short-film "La Cucaracha" and trailers of "Around The World In 80 Day's" and other large-format films - all from IB Tech prints. It's meant to show how well IB Tech transfers to video. They apparently didn't have the rights to any of the stuff on the disc and it was done by film archivist Richard W. Haines. It came with an envelope of IB Tech film frames too.

Wow. Amazing Disclord. Is there by any chance a big university located somewhere in Missouri? I'd love to drop by and see this amazing laserdisc with my own eyes but the only way I'll ever visit America is the 3rd year of University as in which every student get's linked to a American,Australian or Asian University/College.

Wow. Amazing Disclord. Is there by any chance a big university located somewhere in Missouri? I'd love to drop by and see this amazing laserdisc with my own eyes but the only way I'll ever visit America is the 3rd year of University as in which every student get's linked to a American,Australian or Asian University/College.

There is the University Of Missouri, Kansas City. If you ever get here I'll be glad to show it for ya - we can copy it to DVD-R for you too - I did that for someone a few years ago who was into IB Technicolor. I lucked out with the disc and stumbled across it on eBay, mis-filed by the seller, so I got it for $3. I was the only bidder.

There is the University Of Missouri, Kansas City. If you ever get here I'll be glad to show it for ya - we can copy it to DVD-R for you too - I did that for someone a few years ago who was into IB Technicolor. I lucked out with the disc and stumbled across it on eBay, mis-filed by the seller, so I got it for $3. I was the only bidder.

Cool. Is it that easy to copy things from LD to DVD?

I'm into Technicolour too (I even own a nice little collection of 8-16mm Technicolour Disney movies) but never heard of IB Technicolour. Is there a difference between Technicolour and IB Technicolour or is IB only a kind of brand?

Here's a scan I just did of the insert for the disc listing the chapters.
http://i137.photobucket.com/albums/q211/Love_My_Logics/FilmDiscChapters.jpg

Cool. Is it that easy to copy things from LD to DVD?

I'm into Technicolour too (I even own a nice little collection of 8-16mm Technicolour Disney movies) but never heard of IB Technicolour. Is there a difference between Technicolour and IB Technicolour or is IB only a kind of brand?

IB stands for Imbibition, which is a specific printing method using actual inks/pigments pressed, one-by-one, onto the film to create the image - the same way an ink-stamp works, basically. IB printing had died in the 70's, but Technicolor has been using it again since the late 90's for select movies. Do a Google search for IB Technicolor or Imbibition Printing. IB Technicolor prints do not fade like Kodak and Fuji films.

And yes, super-simple to copy LD - no form of anti-copy was ever used on LD because the way the system worked wouldn't allow something like Macrovision to be used. So, LD's copy nicely to DVD.

Just did a quick research on the topic: Wow.... just wow. IB Technicolor seems to be absolutely the best of all Technicolor related.

I've even found some actual pics of IB Technicolor movies. :eek:

And from the list I found it seems I even have some Walt Disney movies made with the IB Technicolor process. Sadly none of my Super8 movies is made this way.

About the PN you send me: How 'bout half past 6 in the evening (GMT+1) on Monday the 3rd of March? Should be 11:30am in Missouri. By this time I should've accuired the headset/microphone of my dad.

Just did a quick research on the topic: Wow.... just wow. IB Technicolor seems to be absolutely the best of all Technicolor related.

I've even found some actual pics of IB Technicolor movies. :eek:

And from the list I found it seems I even have some Walt Disney movies made with the IB Technicolor process. Sadly none of my Super8 movies is made this way.

About the PN you send me: How 'bout half past 6 in the evening (GMT+1) on Monday the 3rd of March? Should be 11:30am in Missouri. By this time I should've accuired the headset/microphone of my dad.

You got it!

And as they say.. "There's an LD sucker born every minute", Ok probably more like every day where LD is concerned in the year 2008.

I've enjoyed my collection regularly for over 2 decades now. Pretty good ROI overall indeed.

My collection is around 900 titles, but nobody has ever wanted to see it. :(

LD is just so much fun to collect - and to learn about because it has such a weird history - always just hanging on, surviving LaserRot and horriffic advertising, etc... but always hanging in there, surviving. And providing great quality for years and years. And, there's all kinds of stuff to 'focus' collecting on - MCA DiscoVision, Magnetic Video titles, DTS releases, AC-3 releases, Criterion Collection - it goes on and on... too hard to resist!

Weird about "Tiffany's" - from all the spectrum diagrams and such, I wasn't aware that Hi-Vision discs could have FM analog tracks - the carrier looks to extend right down to the edge of the 1.75 MHz EFM PCM audio carrier. Or did I misunderstand what you were saying? (which wouldn't be the first time I've done that!):)


Nope - you didn't misunderstand. The signal was a mono signal that was split between (duplicated I guess) on both left/right channels. Same for the B-Mode

I hope my LD collection will be bigger than my DVD collection (15 movies, most of them Deluxe or Collectors editions) or my HD-DVD collection (3 collectors editions, 2 combo discs, 1 promo disc and about 10 regular discs).

To surpass the ammount of BD movies I own should be no problem as I only own 4 :p (Pirates Of The Caribbean II + III, Walt Disney Promo Disc, Pursuit Of Happyness)

I still have 20 must haves I cannot find... LD only no DVD....

Concerts always rock hard on laserdisc, they are always a good buy with media mail available these days.

I still have 20 must haves I cannot find... LD only no DVD....

Concerts always rock hard on laserdisc, they are always a good buy with media mail available these days.

What are the 20 you are looking for?

News about the StarWars deal: The seller just dropped my a line and told me about Hermes postal service. That would make 2€ off.

Now I asked him about additional 2-3€ off (I know: bad idea to ask for a rebate if you only consider to buy one movie).

If all goes well I might have my first LD movie in mail in the middle of next week:)


Another great news: I just got a call (as I'm looking for a 40-50m² flat I get 3-4 calls per hour :eek: ) and someone told me about a free, 40m² tower room with a free sight over the whole landside. If all goes well there are only 2 things I'll still need for my perfect home theater:

1. A 15.000 Ansi Lumen Projector like the Runco-SC1. Should be pretty good to draw "Laserdisc was here" at the opposite clocktower ;)

2. A big telescope to spy for Princess Xenia Of Saxony :D So if anyone would like to get some pictures of the Queens niece drop me a line :p

We have a 540x960 Sanyo Z1 projector that we don't use anymore (since getting the Z3) and are thinking about using it to show movies outside on the side of our garage this summer - I have a drive-in speaker that I can hook up to a little Radio Shack receiver and a portable DVD player so we could create a 'drive-in movie' experience in our back yard.

I wonder if neighbors would wander over to watch too? I'd show some trashy AIP film like "Frogs" or "Empire Of The Ants" to make the experience just right.

We have a 540x960 Sanyo Z1 projector that we don't use anymore (since getting the Z3) and are thinking about using it to show movies outside on the side of our garage this summer - I have a drive-in speaker that I can hook up to a little Radio Shack receiver and a portable DVD player so we could create a 'drive-in movie' experience in our back yard.

I wonder if neighbors would wander over to watch too? I'd show some trashy AIP film like "Frogs" or "Empire Of The Ants" to make the experience just right.

Your neighbors are American,right? Then obviously yes.

If they were German they would just call the police and tell them something about how they got disturbed by the light of your projector and the noise of your speakers (no kidding but saddly that's how 80-90% of the German population behaves :().

Your neighbors are American,right? Then obviously yes.

If they were German they would just call the police and tell them something about how they got disturbed by the light of your projector and the noise of your speakers (no kidding but saddly that's how 80-90% of the German population behaves :().

Oh, gee, that's terrible! Why are they like that?

Here, in the summer, the neighborhood kids play baseball in the street till 1am sometimes. They can get quite loud too, but no one complains about it because that's just the way kids are supposed to be.

Have you guys seen the Cypress Instant HQV Scaler? I was reading one of the threads about it here and it seems to be just the ticket for making LD look great on systems that don't have accessable Faroudja or HQV processing... like mine - I have Faroudja DCDI only in my DVD player and while the Sanyo Z3 is pretty good in deinterlacing and reverse telecine, the HQV processor seems like it might be the thing to add. And for $699, not too outrageous. Of course, older Faroudja-made outboard units are now on eBay for very low prices... they arn't state-of-the-art, but might do great for LD.

Thoughts?

Oh, gee, that's terrible! Why are they like that?

Here, in the summer, the neighborhood kids play baseball in the street till 1am sometimes. They can get quite loud too, but no one complains about it because that's just the way kids are supposed to be.

It's their nature, I suppose.

Life in Germany isn't that funny so most tend to miss the point of humour too (they made stats about this which showed that Germans don't have a sense of humour at all).

Not to sound racist of course but every culture in the world are somehow stereotypical.

Most English have bad teeth for example (I call this General Washingtons Curse now :D) and I suffer from the same (althought I haven't had any problems for 18 years and was indeed never in the need of a dentist).

A big amount (of course not all) of Australia's citizens is overly fat (McDonalds, KFCs,BurgerKings and Red Roosters ultimate curse ;) )

Japans people eat fish and rice most of the time.

Russians do drink big bottles of Vodka

and so on.

Since this is mostly an US forum I won't recall any American stereotypicals (except the republican/weapon thing I don't even remember that much true true to nature American stereotypical)

PS: I checked all these stereos closely but don't get me on the thing with Russians and alkohol since this was very outtrageous. :o

Have you guys seen the Cypress Instant HQV Scaler? I was reading one of the threads about it here and it seems to be just the ticket for making LD look great on systems that don't have accessable Faroudja or HQV processing... like mine - I have Faroudja DCDI only in my DVD player and while the Sanyo Z3 is pretty good in deinterlacing and reverse telecine, the HQV processor seems like it might be the thing to add. And for $699, not too outrageous. Of course, older Faroudja-made outboard units are now on eBay for very low prices... they arn't state-of-the-art, but might do great for LD.

Thoughts?

Sure thing.

It's Realta based so it's a great addition to any LD line (Realta based setups should even make NES graphics look great :) ).

It's their nature, I suppose.

Life in Germany isn't that funny so most tend to miss the point of humour too (they made stats about this which showed that Germans don't have a sense of humour at all).

Not to sound racist of course but every culture in the world are somehow stereotypical.

Most English have bad teeth for example (I call this General Washingtons Curse now :D) and I suffer from the same (althought I haven't had any problems for 18 years and was indeed never in the need of a dentist).

A big amount (of course not all) of Australia's citizens is overly fat (McDonalds, KFCs,BurgerKings and Red Roosters ultimate curse ;) )

Japans people eat fish and rice most of the time.

Russians do drink big bottles of Vodka

and so on.

Since this is mostly an US forum I won't recall any American stereotypicals (except the republican/weapon thing I don't even remember that much true true to nature American stereotypical)

PS: I checked all these stereos closely but don't get me on the thing with Russians and alkohol since this was very outtrageous. :o

People get all upset about stereotyping but the fact is, it always has a basis in reality. I don't get upset at all over it - heck, I like Madonna and AbFab which is considered VERY stereotypical! My partner, however, does not... he likes Cher and Dallas!:rolleyes:

People get all upset about stereotyping but the fact is, it always has a basis in reality. I don't get upset at all over it - heck, I like Madonna which is considered VERY stereotypical! My partner, however, does not... he likes Cher!:rolleyes:

I never heard of that? Why is it stereotypical to like Madonna?

Strange by the way,that I can't find a French stereo.

Sure thing.

It's Realta based so it's a great addition to any LD line (Realta based setups should even make NES graphics look great :) ).

It's kinda sad that Yves Faroudja has seemingly disappeared from the scene - he invented film-recognition in video and diagonal processing - invented SuperNTSC - all kinds of stuff and now we have nothing from him. Like he 'blew his wad' on it all and is tapped out now. I wonder why? I'd love to see some new technology from him.

It's kinda sad that Yves Faroudja has seemingly disappeared from the scene - he invented film-recognition in video and diagonal processing - invented SuperNTSC - all kinds of stuff and now we have nothing from him. Like he 'blew his wad' on it all and is tapped out now. I wonder why? I'd love to see some new technology from him.

Yeah, but Faroudja technology is somehow outdated in comparison with the fabulous HQV.

that's exactly my thought. What happened to Faroudja, their products turn into something like Bose. Overpriced, low performing.

Yeah, but Faroudja technology is somehow outdated in comparison with the fabulous HQV.

That's the problem! His stuff was state-of-the-art and then poof! He stops keeping up with other companies who soon surpass his technology.

Quick question: Is it normal that PAL LDs are shorter in lenght? I thought it was the other way round.

Example: I saw a NTSC movie that was 89min. The PAL version is just 87min.

I also thought about buying a German LD of The Never Ending Story II but then I decided against it in favour for the NTSC version with the additional Bugs Cartoon.

EDIT: Just bought my first LD "Beethovens 2nd" German/PAL. Hopefully it's worth the 1€ + 6€ shipping :)

That's how my first LD looks like :)

http://img148.imageshack.us/img148/6682/39731uv6.jpg

Blinx. that 2 minute difference is proably the 4%, PAL speed-up factor...?

Blinx. that 2 minute difference is proably the 4%, PAL speed-up factor...?

Yeah, thought about that. Makes sense. Some wiki said it the other way around (PAL has to have more minutes) that's why I was confused.

It's their nature, I suppose.

Life in Germany isn't that funny so most tend to miss the point of humour too (they made stats about this which showed that Germans don't have a sense of humour at all).


I heard that Germans loved comedy until 1933. When they elected a Charlie Chaplin impersonator they thought life would be a barrel of laughs but instead it all went downhill from there, doh! ;) I guess they don't like comedians anymore, lol!


A big amount (of course not all) of Australia's citizens is overly fat (McDonalds, KFCs,BurgerKings and Red Roosters ultimate curse ;) )


I didn't know a lot of Australians were fat. The only fat Australians I can think of right now are Les Patterson and that Jono guy, the radio DJ (here in the UK, although maybe he was a DJ in Australia too) and Les Patterson's not even real, lol!

I heard that Germans loved comedy until 1933. When they elected a Charlie Chaplin impersonator they thought life would be a barrel of laughs but instead it all went downhill from there, doh! ;) I guess they don't like comedians anymore, lol!



I didn't know a lot of Australians were fat. The only fat Australians I can think of right now are Les Patterson and that Jono guy, the radio DJ (here in the UK, although maybe he was a DJ in Australia too) and Les Patterson's not even real, lol!

Lol, that gave me a laugh.

And yeah, I think so. If Australians weren't fat they wouldn't be on place 2 in the world ranking.

Americans. Be proud because you made it to the top:D

The biggest competioner to America and Australia is Germany, by the way. That's why the German government even started one of those "Anti-Fat Campaigns".

Update: Just won an auction on The Godfather I and II (Green cases,THX,Widescreen) for 13,4€ (including shipping). Was that a good deal?

PS: I was also considering to get James And The Giant Peach (THX,CAV) and Space Jam (AC3,CLV) from the same seller. But there was this idiot of a high-bidder (how I hate those guys):mad: .

I'm now cured from Ebay and all this auction **** and the last auction I'll take in is by next week. After that it's "Regular Buying" for me.

EDIT: Here's a picture of it.
http://img257.imageshack.us/img257/3697/a4871ig4.jpg

I really hope this was a good deal.

Update: Just won an auction on The Godfather I and II (Green cases,THX,Widescreen) for 14,4€ (including shipping). Was that a good deal?

PS: I was also considering to get James And The Giant Peach (THX,CAV) and Space Jam (AC3,CLV) from the same seller. But there was this idiot of a high-bidder (how I hate those guys):mad: .

I'm now cured from Ebay and all this auction **** and the last auction I'll take in is by next week. After that it's "Regular Buying" for me.

Have you tried Auction Sniper? It comes in REALLY handy on eBay. :D

Godfather on LD is awesome!!!!!

Something about the LD quality of lack there of seems to enhance the effect from some movies like the Godfather movies.

Digital sound came from laserdisc actually 2 years before cd.
Widescreen movies came from LD.
Audio commentaries came from LD,Criterion Collection was the first.
5.1 sound came from LD(DD & DTS).
Director's cuts, special editions, extended versions and unrated ALL started with laserdisc.

Godfather on LD is awesome!!!!!

Something about the LD quality of lack there of seems to enhance the effect from some movies like the Godfather movies.

Yeah ok. But is it really worth the 13,40€ ? Or should I've better invested everything into James And The Giant Peach (since LDDB lists it as a rare title and no one is selling it for under 35$US there) ?

Digital sound came from laserdisc actually 2 years before cd.
Widescreen movies came from LD.
Audio commentaries came from LD,Criterion Collection was the first.
5.1 sound came from LD(DD & DTS).
Director's cuts, special editions, extended versions and unrated ALL started with laserdisc.

Actually I now of some VHS movies which behave this way.

Yeah ok. But is it really worth the 13,40€ ? Or should I've better invested everything into James And The Giant Peach (since LDDB lists it as a rare title and no one is selling it for under 35$US there) ?

Seems a bit high.... I still would not sweat the cost so much if it is a title you really will screen even remotely regularly. :)

Actually I don't know if it's high or not. I am terrible at currency conversions.

Seems a bit high.... I still would not sweat the cost so much if it is a title you really will screen even remotely regularly. :)

Actually I don't know if it's high or not. I am terrible at currency conversions.

13,40€ translates into approximately 20$US. I haven't seen the title for sale on Laserdisc Database so maybe it's one of those somehow rarer titles.

I'm really sad that I haven't got James And The Giant Peach,however:( I was nearly dancing as I saw the green light but at the end it was only one of Ebays timing issues (it said 1sec left) and so I lost in the last 19sec.

PS: I'm not that interested in PartII of The Godfather so I obviously won't screen it regularly but I'll do so with the best part (PartI).

Godfather on LD is awesome!!!!!

Something about the LD quality of lack there of seems to enhance the effect from some movies like the Godfather movies.


I have the 10 1/2 hour one movie chronically re-edited version of the 3 movies in a LD boxed set it kicks a$$ bigtime! :D:D

Digital sound came from laserdisc actually 2 years before cd.
Widescreen movies came from LD.
Audio commentaries came from LD,Criterion Collection was the first.
5.1 sound came from LD(DD & DTS).
Director's cuts, special editions, extended versions and unrated ALL started with laserdisc.

No, CD came first - until digital tracks were added to LD, LD had FM analog stereo tracks only. Philips did the first experiments with adding the CD's EFM coded PCM signal to LD in the spring of 1984 and published their first paper about it in November 1984. The first LD's with digital sound were The Cotton Club and Star Trek III: The Search For Spock. In the first few years of digital sound LD's the format was limited to 55 minutes per Extended Play side - that was later overcome and a full 60 min was possible. The system was well suited to NTSC LD's because the bottom of the spectrum was just unused noise and the EFM tracks fitted there nicely, while still keeping the analog FM audio carriers - in the PAL format the analog tracks were smack-dab in the same spectrum as the EFM, so analog FM audio had to be eliminated for PAL LD's to have digital sound.

No, CD came first - until digital tracks were added to LD, LD had FM analog stereo tracks only. Philips did the first experiments with adding the CD's EFM coded PCM signal to LD in the spring of 1984 and published their first paper about it in November 1984. The first LD's with digital sound were The Cotton Club and Star Trek III: The Search For Spock. In the first few years of digital sound LD's the format was limited to 55 minutes per Extended Play side - that was later overcome and a full 60 min was possible. The system was well suited to NTSC LD's because the bottom of the spectrum was just unused noise and the EFM tracks fitted there nicely, while still keeping the analog FM audio carriers - in the PAL format the analog tracks were smack-dab in the same spectrum as the EFM, so analog FM audio had to be eliminated for PAL LD's to have digital sound.
Actually the first LD came out in 1978. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Laserdisc

The 1984 date that Disclord is referring to is when the first experiments with LDs with PCM digital audio tracks were done. The first LDs and players that came out around 1980 did have stereo audio, but they were not PCM digital tracks. My first LD player was a 1982 Pioneer model, and it did not have digital audio capability.

The 1984 date that Disclord is referring to is when the first experiments with LDs with PCM digital audio tracks were done. The first LDs and players that came out around 1980 did have stereo audio, but they were not PCM digital tracks. My first LD player was a 1982 Pioneer model, and it did not have digital audio capability.

Exactly - I was NOT refering to LD's launch which was in December of 1978 - a fact of which I am WELL aware - and I have test-pressings from 1976/77 that still play perfectly on 'modern' players. The CD was an outgrowth of the optical videodisc project at Philips and the final CD standard used the LD's physical spec's (disc thickness, pit-geometry, track pitch, etc...) pretty much unchanged and an infrared laser - LD used a HeNe visible laser at that time for all top-loading players until the LD-700, which was the first diode-based LD player.

BTW, There is some bizzare information in the Wikipedia article on LD - like a statement that LaserVision was NOT an official name for the format - it certainly was, until it was changed in the 1990's! Until then LaserDisc was a 'brand' name of Pioneer's for their LaserDisc brand LaserVision discs and players. The LaserVision Association was specifically formed because, until 1981, the format didn't even have an official name, being called DiscoVision, Magnavision, VLP, MCA/Philips Videodisc and Reflective Optical Videodisc... LaserVision was the official name given to the MCA/Philips reflective optical videodisc format and even Pioneer Artists LaserDisc's carried the LaserVision logo and name.

A few questions about Laserdisc:

Anyone have any specs or info on a Pioneer CLD-1090 LD player? I recently upgraded from a 1070 model. Using the 1090 on my LCD TV with S Video removed a 'waffle' pattern that the CLD-1070 with rca cables displayed.

Also, does anyone know a good website that lists the differences between movies released on LD vs. DVD as well as a list of LD movies that are not on DVD yet?

Thanks

Exactly - I was NOT refering to LD's launch which was in December of 1978 - a fact of which I am WELL aware - and I have test-pressings from 1976/77 that still play perfectly on 'modern' players. The CD was an outgrowth of the optical videodisc project at Philips and the final CD standard used the LD's physical spec's (disc thickness, pit-geometry, track pitch, etc...) pretty much unchanged and an infrared laser - LD used a HeNe visible laser at that time for all top-loading players until the LD-700, which was the first diode-based LD player.

BTW, There is some bizzare information in the Wikipedia article on LD - like a statement that LaserVision was NOT an official name for the format - it certainly was, until it was changed in the 1990's! Until then LaserDisc was a 'brand' name of Pioneer's for their LaserDisc brand LaserVision discs and players. The LaserVision Association was specifically formed because, until 1981, the format didn't even have an official name, being called DiscoVision, Magnavision, VLP, MCA/Philips Videodisc and Reflective Optical Videodisc... LaserVision was the official name given to the MCA/Philips reflective optical videodisc format and even Pioneer Artists LaserDisc's carried the LaserVision logo and name.
I stand corrected my mistake.

Discovered this thread a few days ago ... brought back some wonderful memories.

I still have my Pioneer Elite CLD-97 ... just watched a couple movies in the past couple days (feeling nostalgic after seeing this thread) ... still works like a charm.

A few questions about Laserdisc:

Anyone have any specs or info on a Pioneer CLD-1090 LD player? I recently upgraded from a 1070 model. Using the 1090 on my LCD TV with S Video removed a 'waffle' pattern that the CLD-1070 with rca cables displayed.

Also, does anyone know a good website that lists the differences between movies released on LD vs. DVD as well as a list of LD movies that are not on DVD yet?

Thanks

The best resource is probably lddb.com but it doesn't list some of the specifics that you are looking for. It is the most comprehensive database of LD releases available though. For info on specific players, you can check here: http://www.laserdiscarchive.co.uk/pioneer1.htm

The 1070 and 1090 look like '89 and '91 models, respectively.

The CLD's 1070 and 1090 are players that will be lucky to display a 48 db video S/N when new, much less now. By mid-90's standards, 48 db is poor, below average performance. Every 1995, Pioneer model delivered better performance. Even the the budjet models, CLD's S104 & S304 managed 49 db. CLD's D504, D604 & 59 will yield 50 db, CLD's D704 & 79 will get 'cha 51 db....I'd throw the CLD-99 in with the previous pair because it's 52 db performance is based on it's over-rated 3-D comb filter that is short on colour performance. It's jim dandy on B & W material though. Over composite, the 99 is just a prettier 79.

IMO, until you reach the 51 db performance level, you haven't a prayer of getting a quiet picture on an LCD set. Then, if you're using composite video, your LD signal is at the mercy of the set's comb filter and then it's de-interlacer. So, even if the set's comb filter is worthy, then comes the circuit most likely to distort LD signals, the de-interlacer. It appears most TV's come with a not-so-good one and is a favoured spot for manufacturers to cut costs from where I sit.

BTW, duct tape over your deck's S-video output. It's useless. If the CLD-99's comb filter is flawed in this day and age.....where does that leave the 1090's?-!

Moral of the story...generally, never buy an LD player from before 1995 unless it's a CLD-97, CLD-95, LD-X1, LD-S2, CLD-D703 or it's a dirt cheap toy for a CRT tube. Here's a bit I wrote for another forum some years ago, that's ended up at Moe's Realm:

http://www.moesrealm.com/hometheater/laserdisc-guide.html

- LD used a HeNe visible laser at that time for all top-loading players until the LD-700, which was the first diode-based LD player.


I always wondered about the Helium lasers used in the earliest LD units...were these prone to simply 'wear out' over time?
I did some reading on wiki but never really got a concrete answer. They did mention that scientists/hobbyists would cannibalize old LD units to get these lasers, but not much else.

I have a fairly small collection of LD's keeping my favorites. The faces edition of the SW movies, a great edition of Dr. Strangelove, and a DTS edition of "The "game", one of my favorites. Another of my favs, Amadeus, I just won in a ebay auction. A Pioneer special edition, it comes with a 50 page color booklet, script, a 2 disc CD soundtrack. Only 10,000 were printed and sold for $ 150. I picked it up for $ 20! I can't wait!

BTW, I have a Pioneer M401 with an optical output. An average player at best. I am disabled which makes it very difficult to change sides. Could someone suggest a solid dual side player? I'd like to avoid ebay if possible.

thanks!
ej

EJ, read the article I posted in my last post. That should help you decide on players you'd like to pursue. I can understand your desire to avoid e-Bay. You can haunt all the classified sections of HT forums and maybe find a player for sale. I'd scan e-Bay just the same since you'll proably see more there.

A few questions about Laserdisc:

Anyone have any specs or info on a Pioneer CLD-1090 LD player? I recently upgraded from a 1070 model. Using the 1090 on my LCD TV with S Video removed a 'waffle' pattern that the CLD-1070 with rca cables displayed.

Also, does anyone know a good website that lists the differences between movies released on LD vs. DVD as well as a list of LD movies that are not on DVD yet?

Thanks

http://www.laserdiscvault.com/

BTW, duct tape over your deck's S-video output. It's useless. If the CLD-99's comb filter is flawed in this day and age
Moe's Realm:

http://www.moesrealm.com/hometheater/laserdisc-guide.html

Flawed? In what way?
Mine gets a jam up picture.

Flawed? In what way?
Mine gets a jam up picture.

The comb filter in the 99 isn't as good as the 3-D filters in better TV's since 1995. It lacks colour performance. Even in 1995, the 99's comb filter wasn't Pioneer's best. They put their best comb filter in the Japanese models LD-S9 and HLD-X9. They deliver the colour via S-video. The LD-S9 is a very similar player to the 99. It's the player that Pioneer should have delivered to Estados Unidos instead of the 99 as their Elite top dawg, IMO. The two are equal on B & W material.

My 1998 Sony XBR 250 tube set has a better comb filter than the 99. Alot of other displays do too. Maybe you should try composite out of your deck and see what you think?

Japanese decks have spoil't and jaded me.... ;)

Autobot, that Laserdisc Vault is an intresting site. I just book-marked it, thanks!

Earlier in this thread somebody mentioned that some LDs were available in "enhanced for 16X9 TV's". I didn't know that LDs were ever available in "anamorphic". I did remember that there were some prototypes made but didn't know that they actually produced them.

It seems that people were really excited about LDs and their continually increasing quality as they matured. I remeber getting the first issue of Widescreen Review and The Perfect Vision and pouring over every bit of technical information. Once DVDs matured it doesn't seem that interest is as high because the PQ is so good. Magazines like WR have gotten smaller and smaller. 1992-1994 were great times when comapnies were making huge strides in wringing out every bit of what LD had to offfer. I remember seeing the Foroudja scaler and the JVC protoype 16X9 RPTV at Summer CES in Chicago. Great tiimes.

In Japan, they did 7 Squeez LD's, read as 16 x 9, LD's. I own two of them, T2 THX and Cliffhanger. T2 THX is an awesome looking LD. Some of the other Squeez discs are a bit flawed and inconsistent looking. I've viewed several of 'em on loan from another forum member a few years back. Cliffhanger has obvious, unsucessful attempts to sharpen some scenes.

T2 THX appears to have no attempt to sharpen as far as I can tell. It's my impression that they had such a good transfer to work with that meddling wasn't even tempting...? As far as I'm concerned T2 THX is the purr-fect LD....for 16 x 9 sets. BTW, T2 sans THX was an earlier Squeez release. I've never viewed it. So, there's only 6 different titles.

I've seen several of the 16 x 9 LD's that Toshiba gave away back in 1992 with the purchase of their widescreen sets. Free Willy, which I remember well, was inconsistent looking. It was very, very good at times but would look dark and noisey in some scenes. The others I've seen were inconsistent also. Weak transfers seem a prime culprit to me, plus, it was a new art. T2 THX finally did get it right but the subformat abruptly ended there.

The comb filter in the 99 isn't as good as the 3-D filters in better TV's since 1995. It lacks colour performance. Even in 1995, the 99's comb filter wasn't Pioneer's best. They put their best comb filter in the Japanese models LD-S9 and HLD-X9. They deliver the colour via S-video. The LD-S9 is a very similar player to the 99. It's the player that Pioneer should have delivered to Estados Unidos instead of the 99 as their Elite top dawg, IMO. The two are equal on B & W material.

My 1998 Sony XBR 250 tube set has a better comb filter than the 99. Alot of other displays do too. Maybe you should try composite out of your deck and see what you think?

Japanese decks have spoil't and jaded me.... ;)

I have tried the Composite before but prefer the s-video probably because my set has a built in upconverter is why it looks so darn good.
It was only so-so on my old set but with this new TV the picture looks nearly HD uh...well more like DVD but still pretty good given the technology.

I must say I am surprised by this thread though. I saw it A while back and posted a little something here but never thought it would go on for as long as it has.
Kind of cool really seeing that there are still people that are passionate about their LD players.
I know I will never give mine up and even played a Star Wars special DD (AC3-RF) THX edition LD last night.

Earlier in this thread somebody mentioned that some LDs were available in "enhanced for 16X9 TV's". I didn't know that LDs were ever available in "anamorphic". I did remember that there were some prototypes made but didn't know that they actually produced them.

It seems that people were really excited about LDs and their continually increasing quality as they matured. I remeber getting the first issue of Widescreen Review and The Perfect Vision and pouring over every bit of technical information. Once DVDs matured it doesn't seem that interest is as high because the PQ is so good. Magazines like WR have gotten smaller and smaller. 1992-1994 were great times when comapnies were making huge strides in wringing out every bit of what LD had to offfer. I remember seeing the Foroudja scaler and the JVC protoype 16X9 RPTV at Summer CES in Chicago. Great tiimes.

Empire of The Sun 16x9
I have the box set nut there is still a little bit of a bar that is visible

Empire of The Sun 16x9
I have the box set nut there is still a little bit of a bar that is visible

I have Empire of the Sun, and the LD is superior in sound quality to the SD-DVD, I can't wait for a hi-def version so we can get the sound quality back!

Earlier in this thread somebody mentioned that some LDs were available in "enhanced for 16X9 TV's". I didn't know that LDs were ever available in "anamorphic". I did remember that there were some prototypes made but didn't know that they actually produced them.

It seems that people were really excited about LDs and their continually increasing quality as they matured. I remeber getting the first issue of Widescreen Review and The Perfect Vision and pouring over every bit of technical information. Once DVDs matured it doesn't seem that interest is as high because the PQ is so good. Magazines like WR have gotten smaller and smaller. 1992-1994 were great times when comapnies were making huge strides in wringing out every bit of what LD had to offfer. I remember seeing the Foroudja scaler and the JVC protoype 16X9 RPTV at Summer CES in Chicago. Great tiimes.

Hello friend (b4z,)

Just been reading your nostalgic thread and was quite taken by what you said about the memories of the 90's, widescreen Review, Laserdisc improvements, and the time and efforts in writing about these subjects.

I am still an avid Laserdisc collector of both soft and hardware and loving it, even though it is costing me a lot of time, money and effort.

The laserdisc format is my favourite and even though I do enjoy HD DVD's / DVD's and also will enjoy BLU-Ray when I purchase a player and disc's.

The Laserdisc format still holds up ( as a true collectors format!)

Loved reading your thread friend!

If you would like to get in touch then it would a pleasure to hear from you at your convenience.

Kindest regards

Mark :):rolleyes:

I have tried the Composite before but prefer the s-video probably because my set has a built in upconverter is why it looks so darn good.
It was only so-so on my old set but with this new TV the picture looks nearly HD uh...well more like DVD but still pretty good given the technology.

I must say I am surprised by this thread though. I saw it A while back and posted a little something here but never thought it would go on for as long as it has.
Kind of cool really seeing that there are still people that are passionate about their LD players.
I know I will never give mine up and even played a Star Wars special DD (AC3-RF) THX edition LD last night.

I'm in for the duration too. I have so much, apparently, not even replacable stuff on LD. You're lucky your TV has such a good de-interlacer. Many do not. I used to have a 36" Sony XBR450. It had a 3-D comb filter but nothin' SD looked good through it's composite or S-video inputs because it's de-interlacer/scaler sucked. It smeared the colour and detail of LD's. So, I had to run my deck, LD-S9, into a DVDO iscan V2 de-interlacer and run then component video into the set to get a pic that pleased me.

No matter what, I will find a good way to watch my LD's. :)

It smeared the colour ....Colour? Are you british, now, Ms. B? :p

Colour? Are you british, now, Ms. B? :p

No, I'm stille a Polezannian. I'm just so decrepid and aged that they were stille teaching that spelling when I was in school. That's the way the word sounds to me anyway. All civilized, Anglish spackin', kountries spelt's the word with a 'u' except Estados Unidos. I can be blamed for many a misdeed but not for the wave of mass, misspelling insanity and the grave spectre of the grammar warz..... ;)