I hope he got free shipping! :eek:
"Shipping: $50.00 UPS Ground"

Maybe it's the same guy that paid $1100 for a Hong Kong copy of the Song Of The South LD some years back...? ;)
Probably not. I "know" (as in through the internet) the guy who paid over $1K for SOTS, and I doubt it if this new bidder is him. ;)

TLK :cool:

I still have my new in box S2 (purchased on E-bay in 2004 for US $600.00). IIRC, I was the only bidder on that auction.
Do you want to sell your factory box with inserts?

TLK :cool:

I saw a Pioneer LD-S9 along with a Lexicon LDD-1 AC3-RF Demodulator both new in their boxes for sale! :eek:

also I used to have one marantz avr that would not recognize DTS in PCM... or so I thought. It did work but required that the player be powered up first with the disc already in play mode before turning on the AVR.

My Onkyo AVR has a similar problem. You must manual cycle the Digital/Analog input from optical, to analog, and back to optical before it will recognize the DTS container. It works flawlessly (and sounds fantastic) once done, but until that it just plays the PCM "bitstream" that comprises the DTS data.

I saw a Pioneer LD-S9 along with a Lexicon LDD-1 AC3-RF Demodulator both new in their boxes for sale! :eek:

This just screams "If you have to ask, you can't afford it." :eek:

I saw a Pioneer LD-S9 along with a Lexicon LDD-1 AC3-RF Demodulator both new in their boxes for sale! :eek:

Where?

Picked up a lot of 160 LD's a few days ago for $100.00 that included 6 multi disc operas that had an original sticker price of $39.00 but had been reduced to $9.99 and the other 154 discs were for the most part titles i did not have:cool:..and BTW, picked up a Blu-Ray player today for $50.00 that has Netflix, Pandora, and Youtube streaming built in:D....

Yeah the 704 can do everything the 504 & 604. So no reason to have all of those, it's like having 3 cars that are exactly the same except the third one has a cup holder. Just seems like a waste of money that you could be spending on more laserdiscs that you want or even better yet some blu-rays.

Picked up a lot of 160 LD's a few days ago for $100.00 that included 6 multi disc operas that had an original sticker price of $39.00 but had been reduced to $9.99 and the other 154 discs were for the most part titles i did not have:cool:..and BTW, picked up a Blu-Ray player today for $50.00 that has Netflix, Pandora, and Youtube streaming built in:D....

I don't think my wife would let me in the house with that kind of haul!

I don't think my wife would let me in the house with that kind of haul!

Yeah, my wife has me on the one LD a month plan. :D Occasionally, I'll find a cheap lot and splurge- but those are very few and far between here. She has warmed to LD a bit after watching a few quality titles with me (before I was actually able to get her to watch some, she couldn't understand the appeal of a "dead technology" at all) but is still not enthusiastic about this corner of my hobby.

Where?


PM Me!


...Glenn :)

A lot of my xmas movies are on LD.
I have been using it a lot as of late.


The lowly Panny 1000 1080p projector really does a great job with them overall.

Are there any Pioneer DVL-700 owners here? Want to know if this player has component video outputs or get a picture of the rear panel.

The signal on any MON 20 DEC 2010 is composite signal. No component for SD MON 20 DEC 2010, ever.

Are there any Pioneer DVL-700 owners here? Want to know if this player has component video outputs or get a picture of the rear panel.

The component video outputs on DVL machines, without exception, are usable only for DVD playback. You may get a monochrome output from the Y jack while playing back an LD.

Reason i asked is that there might be one available to me, i understand that component is not available for LD, but do not know if this model had component for DVDs or only used composite and S-Vid.

'The component video outputs on DVL machines, without exception, are usable only for DVD playback. You may get a monochrome output from the Y jack while playing back an LD.

Are there any Pioneer DVL-700 owners here? Want to know if this player has component video outputs or get a picture of the rear panel.

I vaguely remember looking at these back in '97. I think it lacks component video. I'm not 100% sure of my memory. What I remember with certainty is that the 700 and the model 500, that only played DVD/CD, is that the remotes, menus, and other ergonomics were very poor. I had a 500 and despised it so much that I gave it to one of my nephews as a CD player. I'd advise you to avoid the DVL-700. If you can get one very cheap, maybe consider it for LD playback only. The DVD part is very poor.

Thanks for the info; i will avoid the DVL-700 like the plague then!!!

I vaguely remember looking at these back in '97. I think it lacks component video. I'm not 100% sure of my memory. What I remember with certainty is that the 700 and the model 500, that only played DVD/CD, is that the remotes, menus, and other ergonomics were very poor. I had a 500 and despised it so much that I gave it to one of my nephews as a CD player. I'd advise you to avoid the DVL-700. If you can get one very cheap, maybe consider it for LD playback only. The DVD part is very poor.

I saw a Pioneer LD-S9 along with a Lexicon LDD-1 AC3-RF Demodulator both new in their boxes for sale! :eek:


I would not give too much for the LD-S9, it have problem with CLV smearing.

I would not give too much for the LD-S9, it have problem with CLV smearing.

So, if folks had a choice between the LD-S9 and the CLD's 59, 79, 99, D704, D604, D504, S304, and S104, which should they take? I'd say take the LD-S9. The only U.S. models I'd even consider taking over the S9 would be the 97/95 or S2.

My older LD-S9, mine has the old Pioneer logo, I believe, has little if any CLV smear. I think that the Pioneer technicans, collectively, generally, didn't adjust LD players as well on the production lines after '95. When they started flip-flopping back and forth between DVD players and LD players in the format's latter years, the LD players maybe were not quite as good as the LD only days.

....not everybody can put their sights on the HLD-X0 and HLD-X9.

Thanks for the info; i will avoid the DVL-700 like the plague then!!!

It was a short-lived model....another demerit is that it had no shuttle on the remote. If you're gonna get a DVL model, try for a 919 or 91.

It was a short-lived model....another demerit is that it had no shuttle on the remote. If you're gonna get a DVL model, try for a 919 or 91.
I would avoid any DVL model entirely. All of the DVL units, including the Elite ones, are based on the CLD-D604 for LD playback, which is a definite step down in picture sharpness from the CLD-D704/CLD-79/CLD-99/LD-S9 series.

TLK :cool:

When my finances permit, i am going to look for some LD model that will be a step up from my CLD-704 or my 3080......

When my finances permit, i am going to look for some LD model that will be a step up from my CLD-704 or my 3080......
I just bought my second LD-S2 off of craigslist for $300 recently. You might have to wait a while before another one (or a CLD-97, HLD-X9, HLD-X0, etc.) shows up there again, but you never know. :)

TLK :cool:

It was a short-lived model....

My DVL-9 was a short lived model. in what seem like 3 months before it got replaced. it's not even compatible with a majority of dvd disc.

I would not give too much for the LD-S9, it have problem with CLV smearing.

I never had serious smearing like others complained on my Pioneer Elite RPTV. I always attributed that to the quality of the power supply. I now have a Pioneer Elite Plasma and NO smear. with a CLD-D704. I still say the smear is an interaction of the LD player with that TV's High Voltage power supply and electronics. I have not had a S9 yet to check it's smear on my Plasma.

Kurtis

Can anyone give me info on a Pioneer MDP90 LD?

Can anyone give me info on a Pioneer MDP90 LD?

Are you sure its not a CLD-M90?
MDP was the prefix Sony used for their LD player model numbers.
If its the M-90, then its a entry level LD player with a 5-CD changer that was, by most reports, quite prone to failures. I believe it was based on the 4-series (?) LD players.

Had a 'Insomnia' night and was scanning ebay and came across that listing. Unfortunately the seller did not ad a picture of unit. What caught my eye was a low buy-it-now price. I have a CLD-M90 sitting in a closet gathering dust.

Are you sure its not a CLD-M90?
MDP was the prefix Sony used for their LD player model numbers.
If its the M-90, then its a entry level LD player with a 5-CD changer that was, by most reports, quite prone to failures. I believe it was based on the 4-series (?) LD players.

Had a 'Insomnia' night and was scanning ebay...

Uh oh. Those can become quite expensive!:D

.......Keeps me off the streets and out of the bars.................:p

Uh oh. Those can become quite expensive!:D

Had a 'Insomnia' night and was scanning ebay and came across that listing. Unfortunately the seller did not ad a picture of unit. What caught my eye was a low buy-it-now price. I have a CLD-M90 sitting in a closet gathering dust.

The 5 disc changers were notorious for mechanical problems. My 1st M401 stopped 10 minutes into my 1st disc. Thelma and Louise I took it in to be repaired, and it was like the inside had exploded, pieces everywhere.


I had the replacement for 12 years. if you take off the top, it's not a carosel. (sp) A Square rides along 2 steel rods that turn, the square grabs the disc, and it rides the rails, where it is dropped in the center to play, kind of like a crazy jukebox. I had the 401 with an optical out, the 301 lacked this. I'm not sure about the 90. I became disabled, and traded for a panny 600. both mediocre players, but the 600 has dual side play, and I can still enjoy my DTS discs!

My older LD-S9, mine has the old Pioneer logo, I believe, has little if any CLV smear. I think that the Pioneer technicans, collectively, generally, didn't adjust LD players as well on the production lines after '95. When they started flip-flopping back and forth between DVD players and LD players in the format's latter years, the LD players maybe were not quite as good as the LD only days.



All LD-S9 have the smearing problem. Not all people are as sensitive about it and some don't see it at all.

I still say the smear is an interaction of the LD player with that TV's High Voltage power supply and electronics. I have not had a S9 yet to check it's smear on my Plasma.

Kurtis


I don't believe that. I checked the LD-S9 on 3 different kinds of TV set's (CRT, DLP, CRT), and two kind of PJ (LCD, CRT) and it was there on all of them. Like I said in the last post, some are probably less sensitive too it.

Here's a little secret I thought to share with all you fellow LD owners out there.

Q. To get the best possible picture should one use the s-video or composite video (yellow RCA) jack of their LD player?


I'm assuming 99% of you are now saying,"Well S-video, of course. Don't you know anything?"


Well guess what? Surprise! You're (probably) wrong!:eek:

Allow me to explain. Many people mistakenly think S-video is short for "super video" because indeed S-VHS (yes, that [I]is "super- video home system" according to the inventors, JVC), using what is technically called a mini-DIN 4-pin connector (Deutsche Industrie Normen) was the first consumer product to sport this new, usually superior in performance (on most gear) connector. What "S" really stands for however is "separate" because the Luminance (Y) and the Chrominance (C) signals of the American NTSC (National Television Standards Committee) "color under" system travel separately along those 4 pins (Y/C and a ground wire for each of them).

With me so far? The newly released S-VHS VCRs and Sony Hi-8mm camcorders recorded the Y an C separately and by keeping them separate their entire existence, never combined, all the way to your video monitor, you get three benefits: Less Moire pattern noise, less dot crawl, and less color contamination. But here's the kicker. These improvements are lost if ever the Y and C are combined together as a single signal. And guess what? The LD format, released originally almost a decade before S-VHS and Hi-8mm appeared with the new s-video jack (firstly as "Discovision", not LD, BTW ) contains the video in the inferior combined or "composite" form.

So if the LD signal inherently has to go through a comb filter to separate the Y from C before it can be used, which would you rather use?

The one Pioneer, Philips, Sony etc slapped onto the back of their LD players as a kludge in order to keep up and advertise, "See, we have the newer, better jacks too!" that used 1990's technology before HD even existed?

or

Would you like to send the signal in its original on-the-disc format, composite, out to your much more modern DVD recorder's input, or video scaler/deinterlacer circuit, either as an outboard box or even in your TV, which uses much more modern comb filters and further processing that's more geared for a high resolution HDTV, not a 1990s 480i CRT set? Hmm?

Long story short, I compared the composite out vs the s-video out of my Pioneer CLD3080 LD deck, admittedly just an 8 bit, 3 line comb filtered LD player, using the Snell and Wilcox moving test pattern found on the Video Essentials test LD disc [best test out there], and found that the composite out going to my 2010 HD gear did better than the S-video connection. I urge others to try it out for themselves and not assume that "s-video is always better". With LD, it depends.

People being told that their state of the art, but only for the 1980/90s, comb filter may be a piece of junk compared to inexpensive 2010 HDTV gear is bound to starts fights. I see that in this forum constantly. So before it gets ugly I'm out of here and un-subscribing to the thread, so I wont be answering questions.

But to those of you who instead keep an open mind and want to learn more I suggest you get and learn how to use the test disc I mentioned
http://imagehost.epier.com/31910/vps1.jpg [borrowed from the web, nothing related to me, just showing a static frame from the pattern for reference]

and do further research that has no connection to the manufacturers themselves (who won't tell the truth that s-jacks were really nothing more than a marketing ploy, a gimmick, to appease the public which insisted it made gear "better", without really understanding why. And how come that's not necessarily true with a composite, from the get go, technology.)

Bye all!

What a pointless pair of posts! I think "99% of us" realize perfectly well that, in many circumstances, the composite output of most LD players is preferable to the S-Video output. Given how many times that very advice has appeared in this thread, I don't think it's a shocking revelation to anybody.

And, after all, since the S-VHS & Hi-8 decks mostly got their Y/C separate signals from filtering composite signals, the real advantage is the reduction of the damage done by recombination & re-filtering of an already fragile signal. While it made sense for low-band tape decks with their highly compromised heterocolor recording systems to preserve as much quality as possible by not recombining the two signals which are recorded separately, the above-broadcast-quality composite signal recoded on LD is superior in all measureable ways — luminance resolution, chrominance resolution, video signal to noise ratio, timebase stability…

What a pointless pair of posts! I think "99% of us" realize perfectly well that, in many circumstances, the composite output of most LD players is preferable to the S-Video output. Given how many times that very advice has appeared in this thread, I don't think it's a shocking revelation to anybody.

And, after all, since the S-VHS & Hi-8 decks mostly got their Y/C separate signals from filtering composite signals, the real advantage is the reduction of the damage done by recombination & re-filtering of an already fragile signal. While it made sense for low-band tape decks with their highly compromised heterocolor recording systems to preserve as much quality as possible by not recombining the two signals which are recorded separately, the above-broadcast-quality composite signal recoded on LD is superior in all measureable ways — luminance resolution, chrominance resolution, video signal to noise ratio, timebase stability…
This.

m. zillch had exactly that to offer -- zilch.

TLK :cool:

I saw some Toshiba not-for-sale demo discs (including a c1991 "Bazooka Wide" disc for "9:16" Hi-vision TVs) lying in a recycle bin on my way to work this morning. They didn't have any covers but seemed to be in good condition (and didn't have any actual garbage on them), so I picked them up and wiped them off. Won't be able to test them until Monday or so, but I always like getting rare LDs, especially when the price is right.

Oh, cool. I'd love to luck into a 16:9 demo. The only demo disc I've picked up recently was one for Panasonic Quasar "Superflat SX" TVs, which wasn't that great. Ten minutes of the usual scenery-disc glamour shots, but with a big "Quasar TV" bug in the upper left, guaranteed to cause burn-in on your floor model. Pity, because the shop had a bunch more for $1 each, & if it had been any good I'd have bought the whole lot & put them up on LDDb for sale.

Sorry if it's already been said, but I don't feel like reading thru 35 pages so just let me say- without LD, this hobby would not be where it is today. Special Editions, directors cuts, audio commentaries, trailers, making-of's, OAR, relatively high quality picture quality, digital audio- LD did it first. A true movie lover's format. LD showed a small yet loyal and enthusiastic few the potential of home theater. Everyone today who has even the most modest of home theaters, no matter if they are a LD vet from the old days or someone just getting into it now, owes a huge debt to laser for making it possible, imo.

I am glad that zillch isnt coming back to this thread. but if izllch reads my post i have one secret about LD players as well.

almost all ld players designed and sold after early 80s seperate y/c(here is your s-video signal,damage already done with the inferior to 2010 cheap hdtv comb filter) after tbc and digital processing is applied here (digital noise reduction, edge enhacement etc...). if one prefers s-video output, these already seperated signals gets output through the s-video connector of the player. if one prefers composite then the ld player re-combines digitaly processed and already seperated(again by the so called inferior comb filter) and gets output through composite(yellow rca jack) output connector(then the display/scaler/processor etc.. applies another comb filter(thats total of 2 y/c seperation). therefor s-video out is less processed.

some of the older high-end players (such as S2, CLD 95, 97, HLD X0) are designed in a way that their components introduce/produce least possible noise in analog sections therefor does not need/have heavy digital processing(HLD-X0 even has a much purer composite out with no digital processing, only a tbc) later models (CLD 70X, 99, S9, R7G, X9) are poorer analog sections designs that introduce/produce much higher noise but later taken care of by digital processes(was cheaper this way) therefor has higher noise levels and more processed/digitized look.

Sorry if it's already been said, but I don't feel like reading thru 35 pages so just let me say- without LD, this hobby would not be where it is today. Special Editions, directors cuts, audio commentaries, trailers, making-of's, OAR, relatively high quality picture quality, digital audio- LD did it first. A true movie lover's format. LD showed a small yet loyal and enthusiastic few the potential of home theater. Everyone today who has even the most modest of home theaters, no matter if they are a LD vet from the old days or someone just getting into it now, owes a huge debt to laser for making it possible, imo.


Bravo! I subscribe to this thread, and love to see it come to life very few months.

almost all ld players designed and sold after early 80s seperate y/c(here is your s-video signal,damage already done with the inferior to 2010 cheap hdtv comb filter) after tbc and digital processing is applied here (digital noise reduction, edge enhacement etc...). if one prefers s-video output, these already seperated signals gets output through the s-video connector of the player. if one prefers composite then the ld player re-combines digitaly processed and already seperated(again by the so called inferior comb filter) and gets output through composite(yellow rca jack) output connector(then the display/scaler/processor etc.. applies another comb filter(thats total of 2 y/c seperation). therefor s-video out is less processed.


I agree since the mid 80's only a few players have true analog outputs but those are the low end players like the CLD-S201 and CLD-S104.

What I believe to be happening from my experience is that TV's do a lot of processing to the composite as they split to the Y/C parts. If you feed Y/C in directly you miss this processing and the signal on the screen does not look as good. This is what I've found from working on and testing players.

Kurtis

In principle, no matter how crude the filtration process, as long as recombination is the reverse, the output signal will be identical to the input signal. A 3.58 MHz notch filter, for example, will cut out part of the luminance signal & leave in some of the chrominance sidebands ; but if you then add the filter passband back in, they slot right back into place (assuming phase-linear filters, which is always a trick, but vital for video & easier to implement digitally). Of course, it won't quite work this way in practice, & to even get close you need to defeat as much of the processing on the separated signal as possible — I typically hit "V-DNR OFF" on my 704 whenever I go to play a disc.

There are people out there who swear by the S104, which uses an analog CCD "bucket brigade" TBC rather than a digitizing model. The signal is still sampled, but not quantized.

There are people out there who swear by the S104, which uses an analog CCD "bucket brigade" TBC rather than a digitizing model. The signal is still sampled, but not quantized.

I also know that there have been quite a few high(er)-end players that have been modified to fetch a composite signal prior to separation in the player. This supposedly allows for them to take advantage of the higher S/N ratio of the quality players while allowing ALL of the processing to be done on more modern electronics. However, it seems to be implied above that the TBC slots in after Y/C separation, so does doing this also bypass the TBC cancelling out the benefits on having a TBC in the processing chain entirely?

Was watching a youtube video of the Pioneer Laserdisc demo. What model player was used? It had a flip down door in front of the tray in which the display was in.

Was watching a youtube video of the Pioneer Laserdisc demo. What model player was used? It had a flip down door in front of the tray in which the display was in.
This video?:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OOVTWl1aG2s

That looks to me like the CLD-3070:

http://www.laserdiscarchive.co.uk/laserdisc_archive/pioneer/pioneer_cld-3070/pioneer_cld-3070.htm

http://www.oldvcr.tv/collection/images/112-CLD-3070Front.jpg

http://www.oldvcr.tv/collection/images/112-CLD-3070Open.jpg

I have one. I haven't used it in a while. Kurtis modded mine for AC-3 RF output, aligned it, and completely re-greased the gear assembly a few years ago.

Why? Do you want one? :)

TLK :cool:

However, it seems to be implied above that the TBC slots in after Y/C separation, so does doing this also bypass the TBC cancelling out the benefits on having a TBC in the processing chain entirely?
No, Y/C separation occurs after TBC in a composite system such as a LaserDisc player. A VHS or similar tape machine separates the incoming signal & records the two signals on separate bands, for reduced bandwidth & to allow reproducing a video signal without benefit of timebase correction. This is a downconverting heterocolor or color-under system, & its performance is inherently very poor.
The original Philips VLP proposal used this method, but MCA carried the day, & the joint format, which became our familiar LD, used high-band direct composite recording instead. The RCA & JVC vinyl videodisc formats both used a composite recording system, but with the subcarrier frequency (different for the two systems) lower than the standard 455/2 Fh of NTSC.

That looks to me like the CLD-3070:
I have one. I haven't used it in a while.
It's a nice player. I really like the way the tray is hidden behind the display, & the "file memory" function is something I wish later players had incorporated. Unfortunately, the one I obtained from a local electronics place hung on side change. I considered having their tech fix the mechanism & add AC-3 output, but between the cost of the mod & my uncertainty about the machine's age, I took it back & used the money for a D704 instead. Still not entirely sure I did the right thing.

It's a nice player. I really like the way the tray is hidden behind the display, & the "file memory" function is something I wish later players had incorporated. Unfortunately, the one I obtained from a local electronics place hung on side change. I considered having their tech fix the mechanism & add AC-3 output, but between the cost of the mod & my uncertainty about the machine's age, I took it back & used the money for a D704 instead. Still not entirely sure I did the right thing.
I enjoyed it quite a bit for about five years; I did many LD-to-DVDR transfers with it. Then, I got my CLD-79 (which I also still have, but don't use), which I used for about a year. Then, I got my LD-S2, and I haven't used either one of those two players since. ;)

TLK :cool:

I also know that there have been quite a few high(er)-end players that have been modified to fetch a composite signal prior to separation in the player. This supposedly allows for them to take advantage of the higher S/N ratio of the quality players while allowing ALL of the processing to be done on more modern electronics. However, it seems to be implied above that the TBC slots in after Y/C separation, so does doing this also bypass the TBC cancelling out the benefits on having a TBC in the processing chain entirely?

I did this mod to my CLD95. In tis player, the TBC is full composite and the Y/C seperation for the noise reduction feature takes place after the TBC.

Later I tapped the digital video at the DAC after the TBC, reformatted it to a standard composite SDI signal, and feed this into a vintage digital broadcast decoder. This gives me a digitally decoded component SDI output to feed into my scaler. Thus all I have is the initial ADC conversion before the TBC and then full digital processing all the way to the display.

I still have a Philips CDV-488. It is unique in that you can select either a pure analog process as it has the analog TBC or a digital processed output. With it The analog picture is nice and smooth while the digital is sharper but adds a digitized look. I had a CLD-3070 at the same time and the CDV-488 was sharper and a lower noise picture. I can see why everyone started digitizing the picture and that results in a little sharper picture. I keep my CDV-488 in analog mode as that is what I prefer. The picture on the CDV-488 does have less noise that the CLD-97 but they are close. I use the 97 in my main system for the two sided playback. The CDV-488 is single side and in my bedroom system.

Have a safe and Merry Christmas all!!!

Al Curtis

No, Y/C separation occurs after TBC in a composite system such as a LaserDisc player. A VHS or similar tape machine separates the incoming signal & records the two signals on separate bands, for reduced bandwidth & to allow reproducing a video signal without benefit of timebase correction. This is a downconverting heterocolor or color-under system, & its performance is inherently very poor.
The original Philips VLP proposal used this method, but MCA carried the day, & the joint format, which became our familiar LD, used high-band direct composite recording instead. The RCA & JVC vinyl videodisc formats both used a composite recording system, but with the subcarrier frequency (different for the two systems) lower than the standard 455/2 Fh of NTSC.


I did this mod to my CLD95. In tis player, the TBC is full composite and the Y/C seperation for the noise reduction feature takes place after the TBC.

Thanks guys! I was pretty sure that TBC took place before Y/C separation. But a few of the posts above had me second guessing myself! :D
Have a very happy holiday everyone!!!

Later I tapped the digital video at the DAC after the TBC, reformatted it to a standard composite SDI signal, and feed this into a vintage digital broadcast decoder. This gives me a digitally decoded component SDI output to feed into my scaler. Thus all I have is the initial ADC conversion before the TBC and then full digital processing all the way to the display.

BTW, how were your results?
If the results are great, your modified player/scaler combo would be perfect for capturing screenshots to share here and "wow" us.

Later I tapped the digital video at the DAC after the TBC, reformatted it to a standard composite SDI signal, and feed this into a vintage digital broadcast decoder.

Can you provide details on this modification? I'm feeling ambitious…

All LD-S9 have the smearing problem. Not all people are as sensitive about it and some don't see it at all.

I've been too sick to respond until today. I'll take Kurtis' theory over yours. I've used my LD-S9 only with 3 different Sony XBR tube monitors and had it on my Elite RP set for a look-see a few times. I've never seen the White Smear thang.

Sometimes, I think you lack a certain perspective about LD players. You've never had an LD-838D or a CLD-S201 or CLD-S104, ect. Your experience is stacked at the top end....

Again, I'm not alone and there are people with the "old" pioneer logo that have the same problem.
I have had, and still have, some low quality players like CLD-315, 501, 406(?), etc.

Again, I'm not alone and there are people with the "old" pioneer logo that have the same problem.
I have had, and still have, some low quality players like CLD-315, 501, 406(?), etc.

I've listened to the debate for years. I believe I've had equipment combinations that insulated me from ever seeing it, other than in postings on this forum years ago. I don't deny the Smear is possible but I don't believe it's an automatic thing-y. I like Kurtis' explanation.

I'm proud of you man... ;) The 315 wasn't a U.S. model. I'm sure it had another number here. The 501 and 406 are mediocre enough that I take back the perspective thang.

I remain convinced that Pioneer's high-point for producing players was 94-95.

Or, of course, if you want esoteric functions & total progammability, you can adopt the LD-V8000. Mine has been modified for AC-3, & I plan to mod it for digital audio as well. At the moment, having assembled the necessary cable for RS-232 control, I'm having fun reading the user blocks from my LD library. Next up, interfacing it to my Sony editing controller!

To modify the LD-V8000 for a digital audio output you will have to have someone swap out the audio sampling/processing I/C. Pioneer for some reason chose the version for the 8000 that does not have a pin assigned for the bitstream outout. You need to replace it with the one used in a player like the CLD-3080. Not sure if that is the correct one but in the consumer units Pioneer used the version of the same I/C with has the bitstream assigned to an output pin. Then you can add the components to bring the bitstream to the back I/O.

Kurtis

I still have a LaserDisc!

I still have a LaserDisc!
Your point being? :confused:

TLK :cool:

I still have a LaserDisc!

Your point being? :confused:

TLK :cool:

His point is he's excited about it. Me, too!

I still have my Mitsubishi M-V7057 LD (rebadged Pio 704) in my main system, and a couple of Pioneers and an RCA (yes really) around the house. I watch perhaps two movies a month out of lots of discs, but there are still LD only titles, versions, special editions, packaging, etc., that I prefer.

It's not solely about PQ with some of these gems.

LD got me into the HT game, and it's still a small part of it. For me that means it was and is successful, despite its inability to gain the traction of VHS, DVD, and now BR.

Yes, I still have a LaserDisc (player or two and a few hundred discs), ivening!

Welcome to the 'Dead Format Society'

I still have a LaserDisc!

His point is he's excited about it. Me, too!

I still have my Mitsubishi M-V7057 LD (rebadged Pio 704) in my main system, and a couple of Pioneers and an RCA (yes really) around the house. I watch perhaps two movies a month out of lots of discs, but there are still LD only titles, versions, special editions, packaging, etc., that I prefer.

It's not solely about PQ with some of these gems.

LD got me into the HT game, and it's still a small part of it. For me that means it was and is successful, despite its inability to gain the traction of VHS, DVD, and now BR.

Yes, I still have a LaserDisc (player or two and a few hundred discs), ivening!
Really? Because generally I don't go into a DVD thread/forum and proclaim, "I still have a DVD!" ;)

TLK :cool:

Really? Because generally I don't go into a DVD thread/forum and proclaim, "I still have a DVD!" ;)

Maybe when DVDs have been out of production for close to 10 years? (OK, no bets on when that might be.)

In the wide,wide world of LD players, how does the CLD-3080 rate in quality of picture and sound with any of the Elite models? Can a RF AC-3 out be added to this player?....:confused::rolleyes::D

I don't deny the Smear is possible but I don't believe it's an automatic thing-y. I like Kurtis' explanation.



Well, some didn't see the problem with the X9 comb filter, and I didn't see that at first. But is was there. :)

Fellow LD owners, check this out www.shopgoodwill.com they actually have online auctions and had just sold a Pio. CLD-3080 for aroun $15.00! (dang!!!-missed that one!!!) also there are some discs currently listed.

Well, some didn't see the problem with the X9 comb filter, and I didn't see that at first. But is was there. :)

With the X9 what I saw with my Pioneer Elite RPTV was a blacker or darker area where the white is with other players. I'm getting an X9 tomorrow to refurbish before I sell it so I'll have a chance to see it on my Pioneer Plasma.

Try to see the problems with crossboard pattern with the X9. Drove me nuts.

Try to see the problems with crossboard pattern with the X9. Drove me nuts.
Then wouldn't it be better to try not to see them? What's the point in giving yourself all that grief?

Maybe the X9 is overpriced for performance. I don't know. I do know I'm not going to be spending the money for one in any case!

Then wouldn't it be better to try not to see them?No one WANTS to see them.

What's the point in giving yourself all that grief?When you see them the first time you will never be able to not see them.

Like anything else at the edges of high performance, once imperfections are resolved the higher level enables discovery of "new" problems that were previously masked. The filtering artifacts, for instance, are most apparent with excellent deinterlacing and scaling that accurately and completely display what is going on.

When you're at this level of laserdisc you're trying to get everything you can out of your player and system. Small adjustments to parameters are both critical and very rewarding in getting everything possible from an X9 and/or an X0. In doing this it is necessary to try various settings and equipment. You don't so much as "see" the checkboard as it gets thrown in your face. After that ... :(

Maybe the X9 is overpriced for performance.It depends on how intent the person is. It is better than anything other than the X0 in most parameters.
An argument can be made for preference of other players, but at this level a lot of it is associated equipment and personal preference.
NIN74 and others, on the other hand, think that the X9 is overpriced in comparing its image with that of an X0 ...
(He is indisputably correct, BTW. :D )

I don't know. Now you do. lol

I do know I'm not going to be spending the money for one in any case!That's okay, of course. But I'm not sure it's okay to jam us or the X9 until you've seen it.
And seeing its displayed image is even better.
;)

So, wait—

First you say the X9 is awful, then you say I should drool over it?
Bushwah.

The way I see life, if your hobby is making you unhappy, you have taken it in the wrong direction, or too far. I know clearly what the performance limitations of LD are. In fact, I've read the books put out by both the first & second sessions of the NTSC, which cover the operations of television systems in general & CCIR System M in particular better than any other documents I know of. While, of course, I want good performance, the best that is practical, I have from the beginning accepted the fact that compromises at some point are inevitable, & don't let it spoil my enjoyment of what I have.

The thing is, some say that smearing is not a player issue, because they don't see it. I would say not, as the same could be said about X9 crossboard issue.

This is really all personnel preference. I've seen everything except for the X0 and my opinion is the S2 is the lowest noise player and the 97 is the lowest noise dual sided player. My preference is low noise so I use the 97 as I want dual sided. The X9 has the same amount of noise as the 703/704/79/99 but dies not have white smear, it has kind of a black smear which people don't notice. I did not have much smear with my Pioneer RPTV's and none with my Pioneer Plasma so I didn't worry about that. The X9 does have the "HR" mode which gives you the sharpest picture I've seen and can play MUSE LDs. The X9 does have multi-bit DAC's which provide a warmer sound if you use the player so that is a plus for Audio.

You just have to decide which issue is your hot button and then buy the best player to solve that and you will be happy. It's all personnel preference.

I use a CLD-97 in my main system, and a Philips CDV-488 singled sided in the bedroom.

Or

You could decide that NO issue is your hot button and enjoy the imperfect medium that has the media you want to see and hear.

Welcome to the 'Dead Format Society'

Really? Because generally I don't go into a DVD thread/forum and proclaim, "I still have a DVD!" ;)

TLK :cool:

You guys must be a hoot to be around. It's such a pity I'll never have the chance to spend any time with you and listen to your erudite comments in person. I'm sure something is lost in the medium. :)

Have a great New Year!

You guys must be a hoot to be around. It's such a pity I'll never have the chance to spend any time with you and listen to your erudite comments in person. I'm sure something is lost in the medium. :)

Have a great New Year!
Something tells me that you're being sarcastic here. :)

Happy New Year to you, too!

TLK :cool:

Damn you to hell Laserdisc! You have cost me more money again this past year than Blu Ray! I would'nt have it any other way. So much for a "Dead Format" I wonder how long my little Blu Ray players (BDP-51FD, or Sony 1000ES) would last if I put my Elite S2 on top of them.

Is there anyone within reasonable driving distance of Fort Worth, Texas — let's say, San Antonio in one direction, Tulsa in the other — with a MUSE LD player who would be willing to help me out? I have a MUSE disc & a MUSE decoder, but no player yet. As I am investigating the properties of the MUSE signal, as well as the functions of my decoder, I would be grateful for the opportunity to set up my decoder & test equipment for an hour or so with a signal source.

Is there anyone within reasonable driving distance of Fort Worth, Texas — let's say, San Antonio in one direction, Tulsa in the other — with a MUSE LD player who would be willing to help me out? I have a MUSE disc & a MUSE decoder, but no player yet. As I am investigating the properties of the MUSE signal, as well as the functions of my decoder, I would be grateful for the opportunity to set up my decoder & test equipment for an hour or so with a signal source.
publius! I thought that was you! :)

TLK :cool:

Yep, that's the one in the video. Since were on the subject; can the 3080 be modified for an AC-3 output?

This video?:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OOVTWl1aG2s

That looks to me like the CLD-3070:

http://www.laserdiscarchive.co.uk/laserdisc_archive/pioneer/pioneer_cld-3070/pioneer_cld-3070.htm

http://www.oldvcr.tv/collection/images/112-CLD-3070Front.jpg

http://www.oldvcr.tv/collection/images/112-CLD-3070Open.jpg

I have one. I haven't used it in a while. Kurtis modded mine for AC-3 RF output, aligned it, and completely re-greased the gear assembly a few years ago.

Why? Do you want one? :)
--I have a CLD-3080, but the front of that one sure is sharp looking--
TLK :cool:

Yep, that's the one in the video. Since were on the subject; can the 3080 be modified for an AC-3 output?

There are very few players which cannot be successfully modified for AC-3. Some are more difficult than others. Notably, older karaoke players, which typically have add-on audio boards grafted to the chassis of some standard player, may not have enough room inside to easily make the necessary connexions. (I know this from investigating modifying my CLD-V710.)

Every LD player can be modified for AC-3 RF. Space to add the modification can be an issue but since I add part directly to the existing analog board I've never seen a player I cannot put it in. It can be more difficult if you use the prefab adder boards.

I'm amazed to see this thread still going strong three years on. I think by most measures Laserdisc was a success, although not by mainstream standards - and had had its day in the sun by the time DVD came along. That said, I still treasure my laserdiscs, and have recently gotten back into watching my collection after some time on the dark side (DVD). Guess what? My CLD-D704, after some coaxing, still works the way it should and gives me a perfectly watchable picture. Although I'm an audiophile from way back, it's always been more about the media for me than the equipment. I don't need six different copies of a movie, one's plenty thanks very much (although there's a few movies I have on VHS I'd like to replace...). I'll always go for the AC3 version of an LD if I can, but if not plain old Dolby Surround will satisfy me.

I also collect 8 tracks, so I know a thing or two about obsolete formats. Just as y'all play LDs for people who can't believe it's not a DVD, I play 8T or vinyl for people who think they're listening to a CD. I'll be watching my laserdiscs as long as I can keep the player runnin'...at least until Kurtis and/or Duncan vanish...

When i was asking questions about AC-3 processors, it was suggested that i go the the demodulator route as that both of my receivers have a plentitude of digital inputs so as to not go with the analog input. I chose the processors mainly because of the affordability vs Demodulators:o. Today i scored a :DGOAL!:D; Got a Kenwood DEM-999D, Lexicon LDD-1 and a CLD-D505 LD (needs work- does not see disc) THANK YOU CRAIGSLIST!! for a C-note!!!!!!!!:D:D:D:D:D

You are a strange man. :D
BTW, have you found any good places locally to find bargain LDs?

a bit of overkill?;)

My favorite thread has been dormant far too long...

I just wanted to say that while the rest of the world watched the "digi-wow!" version of star wars, I fired up my Pioneer 704 and watched the "faces" unaltered laserdiscs in all their analog glory!

My 10 year-old son and I had a Star Wars film festival where Gredo definitely shot first, and there were no belching frogs. (My daughter just turned 13, and had no interest, teenagers.)

To top it all off, my wife, who was a HUGE Star Wars fan as a kid, brought out her collection of action figures in the Darth Vader carrying case. My wife was an only child, meticulous, so her toys are in mint condition. Luke had his light saber, the figures had their capes...not a scratch on them.

A fun weekend was had by all, we even found a movie my daughter wanted to watch.

I want to sample the new transfer, especially the DTS-MA 6.1 soundtracjk, but I'll save that for another weekend...

My favorite thread has been dormant far too long...

I just wanted to say that while the rest of the world watched the "digi-wow!" version of star wars, I fired up my Pioneer 704 and watched the "faces" unaltered laserdiscs in all their analog glory!

My 10 year-old son and I had a Star Wars film festival where Gredo definitely shot first, and there were no belching frogs. (My daughter just turned 13, and had no interest, teenagers.)

To top it all off, my wife, who was a HUGE Star Wars fan as a kid, brought out her collection of action figures in the Darth Vader carrying case. My wife was an only child, meticulous, so her toys are in mint condition. Luke had his light saber, the figures had their capes...not a scratch on them.

A fun weekend was had by all, we even found a movie my daughter wanted to watch.

I want to sample the new transfer, especially the DTS-MA 6.1 soundtracjk, but I'll save that for another weekend...

I'm waiting on my Definitive set to play on my two 704's, so far I'm in for 160.00 venturing into LD territory. I really scored a sweet deal on craigslist and the problems with the two players were really very minor. You wife collected SW figures? Not many girls did that back in the day glad she was a fan of the greatest movie ever made.

Too bad I had to sell all of mny starwars figures, ATAT, Millennium Falcon, X-Wing Fighter, SLAVE-1 back in the early '90s to scour some funds to buy eqipment to build my recording studio :(

Oh well, at least my daughter still knows what a LserDisc is (I still have a lot of discs at home)