Can we possibly get our marketing act together like the Blu team?



http://www.rottentomatoes.com/m/casino_royale/



http://www.rottentomatoes.com/m/children_of_men/



Right there they are telling there ppl when its released and on which formats.
I'm scared to click on the ad it might take to Amazon, and we all know how its doing there.


Comon I'm not even in the business, and I can see we need to fire some people and hire a NEW advertising agency. I can do a better job of spreading the message than the ppl we have now this is embarrassing! Do they even wanna try to make it look like they wanna succeed.

Even though most are not happy with the HD DVD marketing and advertising, HD DVD is still hanging in there. Now that's amazing!

it's on life support. ;)

The only place it's alive and well is in this forum. Other than that, I don't think anyone has even seen or heard of their main advertising thrust: Some mobile unit with a few monitors or something. With that kind of bright ideas, we might be looking at door to door salesmen in the spring.

With that kind of bright ideas, we might be looking at door to door salesmen in the spring.


I knew I bought some Rottweilers for a reason ;)

One of the issues that no one seems to mention is that HD DVD has a very strong "weapon" in it's arsenal of armaments and it is not low priced players.

All HD DVD owners keep asking why the HD DVD Group is not spending money on ads for it's products while the BDA/Sony keeps churning out ad after ad.

It is very simple . . . and very powerful.

We have Standard Definition Television. We have High Definition Television.

We have Standard DVD . . . We have High Definition DVD.

It is the name of the product, HD DVD that is so powerful.

Ever go into Walgreens and ask, "where are the cotton swabs located?" I know I don't. I go in and ask, "where are the Q-Tips located?" Even though I will buy a generic brand, I still use a brand name in substitution for the product name. Same is done with "kleenex" as opposed to "facial tissue."

Joe Average walks into his favorite B & M store and asks, "can you show me High Definition DVD please?" That is 50% of the battle right there. He didn't ask for Bluray Disc (though he might), he asked for HD DVD.

Sometimes when you have this situation, there is no need to advertise. Again a powerful weapon in the format war.

When the leading format has just recently surpassed HD-DVD in software sales, and its total sales are a mere 679,000 units since launch, why should HD-DVD give up its format? HD-DVD has hundreds of new titles coming this year, additional support from Dreamworks, Paramount, likely New Line towards the year's end...Warner has already listed several great titles like The Matrix Trilogy, Poltergeist, LA Confidental, Blade Runner, 2001, The Shining, The Fountain and obviously we'll see 300, TNMT, Harry Potter! And just look at the great array of films Universal will be unveiling this year...and who knows if we might just see a hit or 2 from the Spielberg vault!

Does anybody honestly believe that the BDA is still confident with their position? Fox' Mike Dunn has claimed all along that there was no format war -- 6 months later nearly his studio's entire line-up of BD discs are 50% off on amazon!?! If a format, this early in the game, needs to run BOGO and 50%-off promos every other week in order to spur software sales, what does that say about their confidence?

The BD-exclusive studios are definitely disappointed in this format behind the scenes. The PS3 has been a major disappointment in sales, and now Sony has announced it will use cheaper chips in future models. It has already crippled its upcoming model in Europe and now intends on crippling the machine everywhere! And sales figures show that, besides the PS3, hardware sales for the format are anemic -- especially when considering the CE & studio support advantages BD boasts!

This format war is not going away anytime soon -- it's simply the BD fanboys that like to take any opportunity to proclaim Blu-Ray the victor despite sales that can't even reach one million units after 8-months with supposedly 2 million players in households!

it's on life support. ;)

Here is a current article concerning the format war and gives the numbers on both formats for total discs sold since inception (as stated in the post above mine.)

That "lead" equals less then 7%

Link:

http://www.twice.com/article/CA6422671.html


So for the fans and supporters of BD let me ask you this:

If BD has:

BD has Sony - a deep pockets company and not afraid to lose money supporting it products.

BD has more players in the marketplace by an overwhelming margin.

BD has more titles available

BD has more studio's supporting it. Specifically Fox and Disney.

BD has more storage - 50GB vs. 30GB. (real - today - not some lab item)

BD is spending more money on advertising

BD has more news articles that are slanted in it's favor

Speculation:

BD has Best Buy supporting it, the only CE retailer to make money last year.

Then why isn't BD killing HD DVD in disc sales? (I don't call a less than 7% lead a "killing" . . . I call that a "narrow margin . . . at best.")

Here is a current article concerning the format war and gives the numbers on both formats for total discs sold since inception (as stated in the post above mine.)

That "lead" equals less then 7%

Link:

http://www.twice.com/article/CA6422671.html


So for the fans and supporters of BD let me ask you this:

If BD has:

BD has Sony - a deep pockets company and not afraid to lose money supporting it products.

BD has more players in the marketplace by an overwhelming margin.

BD has more titles available

BD has more studio's supporting it. Specifically Fox and Disney.

BD has more storage - 50GB vs. 30GB. (real - today - not some lab item)

BD is spending more money on advertising

Speculation:

BD has Best Buy supporting it, the only CE retailer to make money last year.

Then why isn't BD killing HD DVD in disc sales? (I don't call a less than 7% lead a "killing" . . . I call that a "narrow margin . . . at best."

Lee,

You are of course totaly correct, Blu Ray is not killing HD-DVD ....more slowly strangling it. The 7% figure will only grow if HD-DVD do not get their act together quickly on many levels. What will the total sales of Blu Ray look like after Casino Royal, Both the Pirates films, Cars etc etc are factored into the equation.?? :o

Blu Ray also has a mighty weapon in its arsenal.....The most recent EXCLUSIVE blockbusters that joe average will want to see

Here is a current article concerning the format war and gives the numbers on both formats for total discs sold since inception (as stated in the post above mine.)

That "lead" equals less then 7%

Link:

http://www.twice.com/article/CA6422671.html

I think we have to take in to account how quickly Blu-ray caught and passed HD-DVD in sales. I know technically Blu-ray was born around the same time as HD-DVD, last April/May, however most people on AVS really understand that Blu-ray was really born on December 25, 2006 when everyone was opening their PS3's from under the Christmas tree. In essence Blu-ray erased HD-DVD's 9 month headstart in a little over 2 months. That is both very impressive and very telling.

I still strongly feel if HD-DVD's best marketing stategy is slightly cheaper hardware then Blu-ray, then HD-DVD is ultimately doomed. The fact that software choice will determine the winner of this format war is being proven each day. There is an interesting thread over in the BD software section right now talking about how many AVS forum member went out and bought the PS3 so that they could see Casino Royale. This is how I personally saw this format war unfolding when thinking about the typical family in the USA which owns an HDTV. I have always imagined the typical family going with the format which carried the movies they enjoyed watching and hence my prediction Blu-ray for all intents and purposes will have this format war wrapped up by January 2008.

~Josh

Nope. Blu-ray was really born/released last June '06, not December '06.

9!!:

You mention Joe Average in your post. Well Joe Average hasn't bought a HiDef DVD player because we are not at the level (price wise) that JV will buy. He is still buying DVD players for $50. $400, $500 or $600 is a LONG way from $50. PLUS does JV even own an HDTV set?

According to recent numbers approx 10 to 15% of the USA households own an HDTV set. . . so 85 to 90% don't.

Beatboy:

Please keep in mind that the least expensive MSRP of a BD player is the PS3 and many do not want to buy a gaming console and sub it as a standalone player. Please do not look at the AVS as any indicator of what the "real world" looks like.

Also I like your spin on the Toshiba pricing of HD DVD vs. BD pricing:

" is slightly cheaper hardware"

The A2 MSRP is $499 (comes with super SD DVD upconvert capability) and you get 5 free HD DVD's with it so @ $29.98 each (MSRP) thats $149.90 worth of software included in the price.

And please don't tell me about buying on the internet at lower prices because it will only open the "gap" of the "slightly cheaper" pricing even further:

The A2 at Roberts site (can't remember the name of co.) is $361 plus he gives you 2 ADDITIONAL HD DVD's along with the 5 you get from Toshiba for a total of $209.86 in FREE software.

ALL:

As far as the "blockbuster" releases that Disney is preparing to offer to BD . . . we will just have to wait and see won't we?

I think we have to take in to account how quickly Blu-ray caught and passed HD-DVD in sales.

Yes, Blu-Ray quickly caught up & surpassed HD-DVD after the holidays. But you fail to mention that every PS3 that sold came packed with two $10 coupons off BD movies! With little software available in terms of games at launch, what else was a new PS3 owner to use on the console? And with these coupons, they could get the BD version of a film for less than the SD DVD!

Sony has been running discounts & promotions at every major retailer (and now e-tailer) in an effort to continue the momentum...but how long will this work? Their numbers are still pathetic with their claimed install-base, as HD-DVD attachment rates continue to eclipse those of Blu-Ray! Sony has claimed an 80% number of PS3 owners are buying BD movies, yet a new survey theorizes it's closer to 22%, a much more convincing figure given the sales of BD movies so far. Casino Royale will no doubt become the biggest HD seller to date, but does anybody truly believe that a title moving 30,000 - 50,000 units will influence anybody into believing that the format war is over? The PS3 will help Blu-Ray to show decent numbers for very specific blockbuster hits & little else, because they are NOT buying movies regularly without major price incentives. The enthusiast on AVS are not the majority.

Bob,

Can you explain why you think CR on Blu Ray will only shift 30,000-50,000 copies.?

Here is a current article concerning the format war and gives the numbers on both formats for total discs sold since inception (as stated in the post above mine.)

That "lead" equals less then 7%

Link:

http://www.twice.com/article/CA6422671.html


So for the fans and supporters of BD let me ask you this:

If BD has:

BD has Sony - a deep pockets company and not afraid to lose money supporting it products.

BD has more players in the marketplace by an overwhelming margin.

BD has more titles available

BD has more studio's supporting it. Specifically Fox and Disney.

BD has more storage - 50GB vs. 30GB. (real - today - not some lab item)

BD is spending more money on advertising

BD has more news articles that are slanted in it's favor

Speculation:

BD has Best Buy supporting it, the only CE retailer to make money last year.



Then why isn't BD killing HD DVD in disc sales? (I don't call a less than 7% lead a "killing" . . . I call that a "narrow margin . . . at best.")


Blu Ray IS killing HD DVD (ironically, for all the reasons you listed above)...But not a quick death but a slice across the gut...a slow bleeder that leads to eminent...like the slow number of releases....when is the next HD DVD release date?

What has HD DVD done in the last month to bolster themselves as a contender? I haven't seen anything.

Really....If you had a friend who really wanted a HD player, could you really, in good faith recommend HD DVD over Blu Ray today?





I think not.

Blu Ray IS killing HD DVD (ironically, for all the reasons you listed above)...But not a quick beath but a slice across the gut...a slow bleeder...like the slow number of releases....when is the next HD DVD release date?

What has HD DVD done in the last month to bolster themselves as a contender? I haven't seen anything.

Really....If you had a friend who really wanted a HD player, could you really, in good faith recommend HD DVD over Blu Ray?





No..you couldn't.

Yes I could and I would. Just for the quality of the upconvert of SD DVD into something that comes close to HiDef DVD.

And to use your analogy:

BD has given HD DVD a black eye, nothing more . . .no blood . . . just a bit of swelling.

Of course you underatnd that we have gone "off-post" with these discussions so we risk the MOD removing all but my last post concerning why HD DVD doesn't have to advertise . . . just a reminder

My finall statement on the format war:

HD DVD will win the war! :) . . . . And Sony will have ANOTHER dead format to sell! :o

In reality I do believe we will get a stalemate . . . couldn't help myself with the fanboy statement!

Bob,

Can you explain why you think CR on Blu Ray will only shift 30,000-50,000 copies.?


A guess. How many do you think it will move in, let's say, a month's time? When Crank is the previous best-selling disc and moves 7,500 in a 3-week period, how many do you think a stellar title will move? After all, there are fewer than 2 million players including PS3's in households, and most PS3 owners are not buying BD movies. Maybe I'm way off base here. Based on previous titles, how many do you think they will move?

Blu Ray IS killing HD DVD (ironically, for all the reasons you listed above)...But not a quick death but a slice across the gut...a slow bleeder that leads to eminent...like the slow number of releases....when is the next HD DVD release date?

What has HD DVD done in the last month to bolster themselves as a contender? I haven't seen anything.

Really....If you had a friend who really wanted a HD player, could you really, in good faith recommend HD DVD over Blu Ray today?





I think not.


Funny you mention recommending a player. My uncle has seen my Toshiba player and is interested in buying into HD. When I told him that the new A2 is selling on amazon for $388 and a price-drop is also imminent, he was very intrigued and is planning on buying one in the spring. For most people, the price of entry is the most important factor. He is aware that neither format has 100% studio support, and he is satisfied with that current situation. And I can assure you that he, like many others, is not interested in buying a videogame for movie playback.

Yes I could and I would. Just for the quality of the upconvert of SD DVD into something that comes close to HiDef DVD.

And to use your analogy:

BD has given HD DVD a black eye, nothing more . . .no blood . . . just a bit of swelling.

Of course you underatnd that we have gone "off-post" with these discussions so we risk the MOD removing all but my last post concerning why HD DVD doesn't have to advertise . . . just a reminder

My finall statement on the format war:

HD DVD will win the war! :) . . . . And Sony will have ANOTHER dead format to sell! :o

In reality I do believe we will get a stalemate . . . couldn't help myself with the fanboy statement!

So, you are saying you'd recommend HD DVD to a friend but not for its HD capablilties but for its DVD abilities (upconversion). Sounds convuluted...I assume you would recommend Blu Ray for actual HD viewing?:D

Yes, Blu-Ray quickly caught up & surpassed HD-DVD after the holidays. But you fail to mention that every PS3 that sold came packed with two $10 coupons off BD movies! With little software available in terms of games at launch, what else was a new PS3 owner to use on the console? And with these coupons, they could get the BD version of a film for less than the SD DVD!


Just a point of clarification...there were rebate slips included with PS3s and BDP-S1s for 3 specific movies from each of the 7 major studios supporting BD...Not coupons...Rebate slips that required you to cut the UPC code from the back of your cover. The last numbers I've seen from NPD are about a year old, but at that time less than 41% of consumers actually send in for rebates...I would say not near the same impact that an actual $10 off coupon would have.

Blu Ray IS killing HD DVD (ironically, for all the reasons you listed above)...But not a quick death but a slice across the gut...a slow bleeder that leads to eminent...like the slow number of releases....when is the next HD DVD release date?

What has HD DVD done in the last month to bolster themselves as a contender? I haven't seen anything.

Really....If you had a friend who really wanted a HD player, could you really, in good faith recommend HD DVD over Blu Ray today?





I think not.
I really love it when BR trolls pop in here. :rolleyes:

BR isn't killing HD DVD. They finally caught up and passed them in sales of discs. Whoopee! Universal decided to slow down during first quarter, and is going to be outting out quite a bit of titles this summer. They've already put out more than any BR exclusive studio. Both formats will be around for quite a while.
As for recomending anything to my freinds, it certainly isn't going to be BR. None of them are gamers, so the PS3 is out (their kids would like it though). Since they are all adults, they won't like most of BR's titles. I usually tell them to wait, but if they really want HD and excellent upscaling at a decent price, go for HD DVD.
J

So, you are saying you'd recommend HD DVD to a friend but not for its HD capablilties but for its DVD abilities (upconversion). Sounds convuluted...I assume you would recommend Blu Ray for actual HD viewing?:D

When you look at the price a a decent DVD player with upconvert being $200 so for less than $200 extra, you get HD movie playback and either 5 ot 7 HD DVD's which almost makes it like getting the HD playback for free.

I have 300+ SD DVD's and 10 HD DVD's. That upconvert ability was VERY important to me . . .as it is to others with large libraries of SD DVD's.

And no I wouldn't recommend BD for HD viewing . . .unless ALL of your movie favorites are in the BD camp and few if any are Universal. If WB and Paramount movies interetss you then save a bunch of money and get an A2 HD DVD player as they are format neutral.

I really love it when BR fans pop in here. :rolleyes:

BR J

I don't know who is trolling but I was invited here by responding to this post above:


So for the fans and supporters of BD let me ask you this:

.....why isn't BD killing HD DVD in disc sales? (I don't call a less than 7% lead a "killing" . . . I call that a "narrow margin . . . at best.")

So, I answered... :confused:

Just a point of clarification...there were rebate slips included with PS3s and BDP-S1s for 3 specific movies from each of the 7 major studios supporting BD...Not coupons...Rebate slips that required you to cut the UPC code from the back of your cover. The last numbers I've seen from NPD are about a year old, but at that time less than 41% of consumers actually send in for rebates...I would say not near the same impact that an actual $10 off coupon would have.


Thanks for the clarification. If your figures are true, however, and 41% of PS3 consumers purchased a single movie & mailed in this rebate voucher, wouldn't that be akin to approximately 200,000 discs or more? And this is assuming only 500,000 PS3 sales with a 41% rebate usage and only a single rebate per owner!

This would be truly staggering, as this amount represents nearly a third of Blu-Ray's total software sales.

Funny you mention recommending a player. My uncle has seen my Toshiba player and is interested in buying into HD. When I told him that the new A2 is selling on amazon for $388 and a price-drop is also imminent, he was very intrigued and is planning on buying one in the spring. For most people, the price of entry is the most important factor. He is aware that neither format has 100% studio support, and he is satisfied with that current situation. And I can assure you that he, like many others, is not interested in buying a videogame for movie playback.
Exactly, I've recommended HD-DVD to people as well for that very reason. In addition, let's say HD-DVD pulls out, stops making players and stops making movies, and Universal goes to BD. What am I out? Well, I now have a kick-butt upconverting DVD player for my large collection of SD-DVDs. Plus, if I buy the Xbox360 HD-DVD player, I can easily rip all of my current movies and burn them on a BD disk if I wanted to, so I'm out a little bit of time for that process and some money for actualy buying the blank disks. Not a huge deal IMHO.

I don't doubt the HD DVD player can upconvert well...but lets face it, HD is what is driving this war, not upconversion. I can tell you on my set up (1080P projector) that upconversion is a $100 term but it has little impact to PQ to the average viewer - SD DVD upconverted vs. improved SD DVD upconverted certainly has a lower impact than HD DVD vs SD DVD. A red herring in the format war.

One of the issues that no one seems to mention is that HD DVD has a very strong "weapon" in it's arsenal of armaments and it is not low priced players.

All HD DVD owners keep asking why the HD DVD Group is not spending money on ads for it's products while the BDA/Sony keeps churning out ad after ad.

It is very simple . . . and very powerful.

We have Standard Definition Television. We have High Definition Television.

We have Standard DVD . . . We have High Definition DVD.

It is the name of the product, HD DVD that is so powerful.

Ever go into Walgreens and ask, "where are the cotton swabs located?" I know I don't. I go in and ask, "where are the Q-Tips located?" Even though I will buy a generic brand, I still use a brand name in substitution for the product name. Same is done with "kleenex" as opposed to "facial tissue."

Joe Average walks into his favorite B & M store and asks, "can you show me High Definition DVD please?" That is 50% of the battle right there. He didn't ask for Bluray Disc (though he might), he asked for HD DVD.

Sometimes when you have this situation, there is no need to advertise. Again a powerful weapon in the format war.

You mean like people use the name 'Playstation' when describing a video games console.

Who's to say Blu-ray will not follow suit.

Meanwhile HD-DVD's confused with SD-DVD and Hard Disk recorders, not to mention combos adding another layer of confusion.

A guess. How many do you think it will move in, let's say, a month's time? When Crank is the previous best-selling disc and moves 7,500 in a 3-week period, how many do you think a stellar title will move? After all, there are fewer than 2 million players including PS3's in households, and most PS3 owners are not buying BD movies. Maybe I'm way off base here. Based on previous titles, how many do you think they will move?


Worldwide? 100,000 units

The "problem" with these "blockbuster" movies that Disney is going to release on BD is that almost everyone has already purchased them on SD DVD.

So if you have already purchased the 3 movies in question on SD DVD and you own a BD player . . . what? . . . .you going to buy them again cause now they are in HD? That could get expensive.

Exactly, I've recommended HD-DVD to people as well for that very reason. In addition, let's say HD-DVD pulls out, stops making players and stops making movies, and Universal goes to BD. What am I out? Well, I now have a kick-butt upconverting DVD player for my large collection of SD-DVDs. Plus, if I buy the Xbox360 HD-DVD player, I can easily rip all of my current movies and burn them on a BD disk if I wanted to, so I'm out a little bit of time for that process and some money for actualy buying the blank disks. Not a huge deal IMHO.

So you're justifying a $500-$1000 investment on an upconverting DVD player?

Hold on, just a sec, the phone just rang.

It's Oppo!

The "problem" with these "blockbuster" movies that Disney is going to release on BD is that almost everyone has already purchased them on SD DVD.

So if you have already purchased the 3 movies in question on SD DVD and you own a BD player . . . what? . . . .you going to buy them again cause now they are in HD? That could get expensive.

Following that line of logic... No one is going to replace an exsisting dvd with any HD disc...WTF.

That argument does not hold water :o

Both sides are replacing dvds with HD discs to an extent.

KOH, BHD, are two I have replaced of the top of my head.

Thanks for the clarification. If your figures are true, however, and 41% of PS3 consumers purchased a single movie & mailed in this rebate voucher, wouldn't that be akin to approximately 200,000 discs or more? And this is assuming only 500,000 PS3 sales with a 41% rebate usage and only a single rebate per owner!

This would be truly staggering, as this amount represents nearly a third of Blu-Ray's total software sales.

The # we don't know is how many purchased a movie only because there was a rebate vs. the # of folks who purchased the movie regardless of the rebate. I know I don't purchase anything I don't want/need regardless of a perceived value from a sale, but all one needs do is check out ebay to see that some folks will buy anything if they think they are getting a deal...For disclosure I've sent in and received 2 $10 rebates from the forms included with my BDP-S1 and have 3 more to send in...but these were movies I would have purchased anyway...I only wish I was patient enough to wait for shipments from Amazon, because all of my purchases (BD and HD DVD) have been from Best Buy.

Don't forget the impact of the porn industry. It appears they are adopting the HD-DVD format due to Sony's reluctance to work with them. That industry is just gearing up, so their impact has not even been felt yet.

Jon

I don't doubt the HD DVD player can upconvert well...but lets face it, HD is what is driving this war, not upconversion.

Not a fact . . . no data available . .sounds like IMO

I can tell you on my set up (1080P projector) that upconversion is a $100 term but it has little impact to PQ to the average viewer - SD DVD upconverted vs. improved SD DVD upconverted certainly has a lower impact than HD DVD vs SD DVD. A red herring in the format war.

Again . . .see above

So you're justifying a $500-$1000 investment on an upconverting DVD player?

Hold on, just a sec, the phone just rang.

It's Oppo!
Last I checked, I've been using my A1 (that I paid $400 for) for the last 9 months without incident and for both HD-DVD *and* upconverting. I'm getting my money's worth.

My point (which, as a troll, you obviously missed) is that if there are no more HD-DVDs being made a year from now, and my player explodes, I STILL got a lot of enjoyment and value out of a $400 peice of equipment.

Hell, I spend more than that in a year to go to a few hockey games.

CW

Following that line of logic... No one is going to replace an exsisting dvd with any HD disc...WTF.

That argument does not hold water :o

Both sides are replacing dvds with HD discs to an extent.
I don't know, I bet a lot of people aren't replacing. I Know I'm not (except for Serenity, which I couldn't resist, and a couple of others).

I was watching TV yesterday, and saw a commercial for a new "recently released from the vault" Disney movie, Peter Pan. My first thought was, "If they're committed to BD, why aren't they releasing it on that format too?" I think Disney's on the fence about releasing in high def at all right now.

A guess. How many do you think it will move in, let's say, a month's time? When Crank is the previous best-selling disc and moves 7,500 in a 3-week period, how many do you think a stellar title will move? After all, there are fewer than 2 million players including PS3's in households, and most PS3 owners are not buying BD movies. Maybe I'm way off base here. Based on previous titles, how many do you think they will move?

Departed sold 20,000 in it's opening week on Blu-ray, so I'd expect Casino Royale to sell 100,000+, with ease, over the next few months.

The "problem" with these "blockbuster" movies that Disney is going to release on BD is that almost everyone has already purchased them on SD DVD.

So if you have already purchased the 3 movies in question on SD DVD and you own a BD player . . . what? . . . .you going to buy them again cause now they are in HD? That could get expensive.


Well, I'm an HD DVD supporter, but I have to ask, what does that say for HD DVD? Most of the day and date releases are going to be Blu-ray exclusive. Universal has some heavy hitting catalog titles, but if people already own them, what incentive do they have to buy them again? HD DVD needs at least one BD exclusive studio to go neutral if it's to stay competitive throughout the year. I personally think Lionsgate will go neutral after seeing strong sales of more niche titles like those from Weinstein on HD DVD because they're a smaller studio and would have more to gain from the extra sales than Fox and Disney, who seem more interested in BD for its advanced copy protection. Just my thoughts.

Following that line of logic... No one is going to replace an exsisting dvd with any HD disc...WTF.

That argument does not hold water :o

Both sides are replacing dvds with HD discs to an extent.

Sure it does . . . the 3 movies in questin or should I say 2 of the 3 (CARS and POTCDMC) are less than 6 months old (release date)

A guess. How many do you think it will move in, let's say, a month's time? When Crank is the previous best-selling disc and moves 7,500 in a 3-week period, how many do you think a stellar title will move?

Just FYI, The Departed (Blu-ray) moved 23,000 copies in 1 week in the US.

I don't know, I bet a lot of people aren't replacing. I Know I'm not (except for Serenity, which I couldn't resist, and a couple of others).

I was watching TV yesterday, and saw a commercial for a new "recently released from the vault" Disney movie, Peter Pan. My first thought was, "If they're committed to BD, why aren't they releasing it on that format too?" I think Disney's on the fence about releasing in high def at all right now.

Disney are not on the fence, they are releasing on Blu Ray or do Pirates of the Caribean not count?

Sure it does . . . the 3 movies in questin or should I say 2 of the 3 (CARS and POTCDMC) are less than 6 months old (release date)

Well the worldwide pre-orders for POTC clearly show they are being bought in huge numbers, probabaly by those who have already seen the film on dvd and want them as part of their Blu Ray collection ;)

Departed sold 20,000 in it's opening week on Blu-ray, so I'd expect Casino Royale to sell 100,000+, with ease, over the next few months.


Don't forget the European audience will be receiving CR free with the PS3, so that alone will dilute the sales #'s worldwide!

The Departed won Best Picture & Director, so I don't see how CR will destroy this movie in sales. We shall see.

Disney are not on the fence, they are releasing on Blu Ray or do Pirates of the Caribean not count?
Sure it counts, but everyone said that the kid-friendly Disney movies were what was going to convince the nation to buy into BD, and Disney isn't releasing that. What else, aside from the two Pirates movies, are they releasing? Their lack of titles (and lack of any announcements at all, while Sony and Fox are rah-rahing everything) makes me believe that they're not ready yet. Maybe they're using Pirates to see what happens, not sure, but they're not fully behind HD in general IMHO.

Don't forget the European audience will be receiving CR free with the PS3, so that alone will dilute the sales #'s worldwide!
What, you don't think Sony is going to count each PS3 sale as a CR sale as well? I bet they do.

Don't forget the European audience will be receiving CR free with the PS3, so that alone will dilute the sales #'s worldwide!

The Departed won Best Picture & Director, so I don't see how CR will destroy this movie in sales. We shall see.

Actualy Bob your wrong,

Sony have offered 500,00 copies to the first owners who register for PSN.
It is not been given away with the PS3 :)

Why the hell is CR the only HD title ever to make it into the top 100 dvds on Amazon UK.Even with the offer, its still selling extremely well.

ps I cant be arsed with the kind offer from Sony, I just pre-ordered some copies instead , that way I know I will get them on release day ;)

Actualy Bob your wrong,

Sony have offered 500,00 copies to the first owners who register for PSN.
It is not been given away with the PS3 :)


So that's not considered "given away"?!? How am I wrong? Are the first 500,000 PS3 buyers in Europe getting Casino Royale for free or aren't they?

Don't forget the European audience will be receiving CR free with the PS3, so that alone will dilute the sales #'s worldwide!

The Departed won Best Picture & Director, so I don't see how CR will destroy this movie in sales. We shall see.

1. CR beat The Departed in the box office;
2. CR has a very strong built-in fan base who are more likely to purchase the movie for their collection, rather than just rent it
3. All indications from amazon.com rankings indicate CR will beat The departed handily in sales.

PS. All these numbers are from USA (or probably NA) only.

Departed sold 20,000 in it's opening week on Blu-ray, so I'd expect Casino Royale to sell 100,000+, with ease, over the next few months.

Sheer speculation nothing more but to include it into the discussion HD DVD has a "blockbuster" title coming out on 3/27/07 (hopefully):

Digital Video Essentials - the only "test pattern" HiDef DVD" available that will allow owners of HDTV's to tune their system to max performance both video and audio.

We have over/almost 1 million HD DVD players installed. How many care about their HT system to buy the disk and get HD based adjusting programming?

I could say 20% - 200,000 and it would ber a tuff # to refute.

it's on life support. ;)

And you would draw that conclusion because:

1. HD DVD standalone players are still outselling their BD counterparts. The top 2 selling Hi def DVD players are both HD DVD. The A-2 is #5 among all DVD players.
http://www.amazon.com/gp/bestsellers/electronics/1036922/ref=pd_ts_e_nav/102-4279731-5297722

2. HD DVD is holding steady with around 33% of disks sold - even with a relatively weak release schedule so far this year.

3. Some sites like dvdempire are showing weeks where HD DVD is outselling BD
http://www.dvdempire.com/index.asp?userid=99365463975691&tab_id=61&site_id=68&site_media_id=0

Can you clarify what you mean by life support?

Sure it counts, but everyone said that the kid-friendly Disney movies were what was going to convince the nation to buy into BD, and Disney isn't releasing that. What else, aside from the two Pirates movies, are they releasing? Their lack of titles (and lack of any announcements at all, while Sony and Fox are rah-rahing everything) makes me believe that they're not ready yet. Maybe they're using Pirates to see what happens, not sure, but they're not fully behind HD in general IMHO.

I'd say disney has been doing a fantastic job of their BD releases...lots of good titles for adults and the kiddies so far

So that's not considered "given away"?!? How am I wrong? Are the first 500,000 PS3 buyers in Europe getting Casino Royale for free or aren't they?

Not everyone who buys a PS3 during the Launch will get a copy Bob, maybe only half at best. The other half like me will buy if they have to.

Lets say your 50% correct shall we ;)

Well the worldwide pre-orders for POTC clearly show they are being bought in huge numbers, probabaly by those who have already seen the film on dvd and want them as part of their Blu Ray collection ;)

Please give link to show # of preorders

The only place it's alive and well is in this forum. Other than that, I don't think anyone has even seen or heard of their main advertising thrust: Some mobile unit with a few monitors or something. With that kind of bright ideas, we might be looking at door to door salesmen in the spring.

I'm not sure what to say but as a consumer when I visit the stores....I tend to notice something. Even though Blu-ray has all this marketing attention and what not.....the HD-dvd section and the blu-ray section always tend to look the same. They look like they are both steadily selling. Again....I can only speak for what I see because I never order my movies online.

1. CR beat The Departed in the box office;
2. CR has a very strong built-in fan base who are more likely to purchase the movie for their collection, rather than just rent it
3. All indications from amazon.com rankings indicate CR will beat The departed handily in sales.

PS. All these numbers are from USA (or probably NA) only.


If you look at the Amazon historical chart, The Departed was in the low twenties for a long period of time as well. CR may outsell The Departed, but people are forgetting that The Departed was on top of the BD charts on Amazon for a long time and the week that The Departed was released the other 12 releases did not even make a blimp on the radar (except perhaps Usual Suspects)...most were in the 2000 rank range and lower....

Not everyone who buys a PS3 during the Launch will get a copy Bob, maybe only half at best. The other half like me will buy if they have to.

Lets say your 50% correct shall we ;)


Well if the European launch is similar to Japan or the US, I'm probably closer to 90% correct! ;)

Well, I'm an HD DVD supporter, but I have to ask, what does that say for HD DVD? Most of the day and date releases are going to be Blu-ray exclusive. Universal has some heavy hitting catalog titles, but if people already own them, what incentive do they have to buy them again? HD DVD needs at least one BD exclusive studio to go neutral if it's to stay competitive throughout the year. I personally think Lionsgate will go neutral after seeing strong sales of more niche titles like those from Weinstein on HD DVD because they're a smaller studio and would have more to gain from the extra sales than Fox and Disney, who seem more interested in BD for its advanced copy protection. Just my thoughts.

I very much agree with you. As we have seen so far in this format war, the Day/Date releases have without a doubt dominated sales. You are also correct in mentioning that Blu-ray has most of the Day/Date releases going forward. Once again, HD-DVD's only marketing plan it seems is slightly cheaper hardware, catalog releases and combo discs which command a premium price. I just do not see HD-DVD realistically making it much longer.

As far as Lionsgate going neutral, I think that is a closed case at this point. If they were going to go neutral, they would have done it this past January during CES when Blu-ray was not as strong as it is today. If anything, Lionsgate's dedication to Blu-ray is stronger now, then it was in January as Blu-ray is achieving the goals which Lionsgate gave as reasons as to why they Exclusively support Blu-ray.

~Josh

Beatboy:

Once again . . .there is that statement:

" Once again, HD-DVD's only marketing plan it seems is slightly cheaper hardware"

You failed to address my last post concerning your use of words . . maybe this time you will?

If you look at the Amazon historical chart, The Departed was in the low twenties for a long period of time as well. CR may outsell The Departed, but people are forgetting that The Departed was on top of the BD charts on Amazon for a long time and the week that The Departed was released the other 12 releases did not even make a blimp on the radar (except perhaps Usual Suspects)...most were in the 2000 rank range and lower....

Yep, the Departed Blu-ray was in the lower to upper 20s after launch. However, CR right now before launch already has dipped to #12, so CR will sell better than The Departed if we take amazon.com as a gauge, probably at least by a factor of 2, perhaps with some luck by a factor of 3.

It'll almost definitely sell more than any HD disc before it.

Well if the European launch is similar to Japan or the US, I'm probably closer to 90% correct! ;)

The news in the Uk is if you havent pre-ordered one of the 220,000+ PS3s, chances are you have missed the boat.Just type PS3 into google and check out news for the last few days Cant speak for the rest of Europe Bob.

Would someone please show me a link that says how much of total HiDef DVD's sold, Amazon is selling . . . a percentage will do.

Yep, the Departed Blu-ray was in the lower to upper 20s after launch. However, CR right now before launch already has dipped to #12, so CR will sell better than The Departed if we take amazon.com as a gauge, probably at least by a factor of 2, perhaps with some luck by a factor of 3.

It'll almost definitely sell more than any HD disc before it.

Casino Royal will take High def discs to a new level of awareness, the good news is that awareness will be linked to Blu Ray ;)

Yep, the Departed Blu-ray was in the lower to upper 20s after launch. However, CR right now before launch already has dipped to #12, so CR will sell better than The Departed if we take amazon.com as a gauge, probably at least by a factor of 2, perhaps with some luck by a factor of 3.

It'll almost definitely sell more than any HD disc before it.


The Departed was in the high teens and low twenties several weeks before release, and continued to be in the mid to high twenties for the weeks following. Will CR sell 2x or 3x as many units? We'll have to see.

Casino Royal will take High def discs to a new level of awareness, the good news is that awareness will be linked to Blu Ray ;)


Fanboy post . . please refrain from these - give fact based post with a "bit of speculation" allowed.

As much as I hate to admit it, Bluray will win because the PS3 will make it win, its that simple.

Take this snippet from #PS3 on efnet:

[09:33] <spAcemAn_> got 13 blu-ray movies already:P
[09:33] <spAcemAn_> cant wait to check the quality
[09:34] <spAcemAn_> i bought the movies also @mediamarkt
[09:34] <[-JuNka-]> BR movies?
[09:34] <spAcemAn_> but pre orderd the PS3 @Dynbayte
[09:34] <spAcemAn_> yeah
[09:34] <M05H> i ordered at Fnac
[09:34] <[-JuNka-]> what titles
[09:34] <spAcemAn_> uuhm
[09:35] <M05H> i will receive an Ultaviolet BD free
[09:36] <spAcemAn_> Underworld Evolution, Vertical Limit, S.W.A.T, Trainig Day Swordfish, Full Metal Jacket, Hitch, X Men the Last Stand, The Transporter, Flight of the Phoeniux, Behind Enemy Lines, Tears of the Sun, Layer Cae
[09:36] <spAcemAn_> cake*
[09:36] <spAcemAn_> thats it:)
[09:36] <spAcemAn_> going to grab some more


This euro has 13 movies already waiting for his PS3 to arrive, and he is a prime example of joe average videogame player. HD-dvd numbers will not increase at a fast enough margin to compete with even really slow PS3 market growth. Its over folks.

As much as I hate to admit it, Bluray will win because the PS3 will make it win, its that simple.

Take this snippet from #PS3 on efnet:

[09:33] <spAcemAn_> got 13 blu-ray movies already:P
[09:33] <spAcemAn_> cant wait to check the quality
[09:34] <spAcemAn_> i bought the movies also @mediamarkt
[09:34] <[-JuNka-]> BR movies?
[09:34] <spAcemAn_> but pre orderd the PS3 @Dynbayte
[09:34] <spAcemAn_> yeah
[09:34] <M05H> i ordered at Fnac
[09:34] <[-JuNka-]> what titles
[09:34] <spAcemAn_> uuhm
[09:35] <M05H> i will receive an Ultaviolet BD free
[09:36] <spAcemAn_> Underworld Evolution, Vertical Limit, S.W.A.T, Trainig Day Swordfish, Full Metal Jacket, Hitch, X Men the Last Stand, The Transporter, Flight of the Phoeniux, Behind Enemy Lines, Tears of the Sun, Layer Cae
[09:36] <spAcemAn_> cake*
[09:36] <spAcemAn_> thats it:)
[09:36] <spAcemAn_> going to grab some more


This euro has 13 movies already waiting for his PS3 to arrive, and he is a prime example of joe average videogame player. HD-dvd numbers will not increase at a fast enough margin to compete with even really slow PS3 market growth. Its over folks.

Facts don't bare this out. There are 3x as many PS3 already sold than number of BD disks sold since inception....so this person is an exception and not the norm.

Fanboy post . . please refrain from these - give fact based post with a "bit of speculation" allowed.

Lee,

I am Blu Ray through and through, but only a complete idiot would deny that Casino Royal is going to be MASSIVE :cool:

tutelary:

Nice post - how many Xbox360's reside in UK? Number I have seen world-wide is 10 million. That is about 9 million potential HD DVD owners as the entry level for a HD DVD player is $200 - the Average Joe's price number. (Add-On)

Lee,

I am Blu Ray through and through, but only a complete idiot would deny that Casino Royal is going to be MASSIVE :cool:

Fine . . . then show me a link to the number of pre-orders and i will believe you.

Facts don't bare this out. There are 3x as many PS3 already sold than number of BD disks sold since inception....so this person is an exception and not the norm.
So?
I am from Europe and i've entered the high-def movie scene with my xbox360 add-on which is sold out here.I've allready bought 5 movies and i am getting my sith tommorrow.

In fact ,if you check any european retailer,the HDDVD scenne is allready very much alive with many exclusive BD movies(in the U.S) being released here(plus movies like Harry Potter) while on the BD side everybody is waiting for the ps3 launch.

Oh and people will as disappointed with the European ps3 launch numbers as they were withJapan and U.S,this thing is too expensive.

Facts don't bare this out. There are 3x as many PS3 already sold than number of BD disks sold since inception....so this person is an exception and not the norm.

See but it doesnt have to be. PS3 and therefor bluray sales will keep increasing at a reasonably steady rate, and will pick up as time goes on, more games come out, and hardware price decreases. HD-DVD hardware is already selling nowhere near PS3 levels..not every PS3 buyer has to buy movies, there will be so many of them that the average will bear out well above hd-dvd.

See but it doesnt have to be. PS3 and therefor bluray sales will keep increasing at a reasonably steady rate, and will pick up as time goes on, more games come out, and hardware price decreases. HD-DVD hardware is already selling nowhere near PS3 levels..not every PS3 buyer has to buy movies, there will be so many of them that the average will bear out well above hd-dvd.

So here in the USA PS3 is 4th in game console sales (last) but in the UK they are going to be first?

Please clarify.

You do realize that sales of HDTV's worldwide is broken down as follows:

USA - 60%
Japan and Asia - 20%
Europe - 20%

Beatboy:

Once again . . .there is that statement:

" Once again, HD-DVD's only marketing plan it seems is slightly cheaper hardware"

You failed to address my last post concerning your use of words . . maybe this time you will?

Lee,

I strongly disagree with your previous statement regarding the PS3. The PS3 is by far the biggest selling HD playback device out there. It single-handedly propelled Blu-ray past HD-DVD in software release after Christmas of 2006. I am sure there are some people who prefer a standalone Blu-ray player to the PS3, however as you read AVS, more and more people who "felt" this way have changed their tune as they themselves have bought the PS3 and have been very impressed with it. The PS3 is the best consumer electronic device value in existance right now. It also is arguable the best Blu-ray play interms of quality as well. While reading my latest issue of Home Theater Magazine last night, Geoffrey Morrision concluded in his analysis that the PS3 was as good as the Pioneer Blu-ray player and I agree with him.

As far as Blu-ray hardware pricing goes, here are some examples:

The PS3 is $459.00 at CC.

The BD-P1000 is available many places for around $425.00.

The new Sony will street for around $450.00 to $499.00 starting in June.

So as I stated and have proved, HD-DVD's hardware is "slightly" cheaper then Blu-ray's. While at the same time Blu-ray's software is "slightly" cheaper then that of HD-DVD's.

~Josh

So?
I am from Europe and i've entered the high-def movie scene with my xbox360 add-on which is sold out here.I've allready bought 5 movies and i am getting my sith tommorrow.

In fact ,if you check any european retailer,the HDDVD scenne is allready very much alive with many exclusive BD movies(in the U.S) being released here(plus movies like Harry Potter) while on the BD side everybody is waiting for the ps3 launch.

Oh and people will as disappointed with the European ps3 launch numbers as they were withJapan and U.S,this thing is too expensive.

Expensive Pfft! I have orders down for six PS3,s I remember paying £300 years and years ago for the PS2. In the UK it must have been priced right, news reports are now saying if you haven't pre-ordered you probably have missed the boat.

Its a deal.....its a steal....its the sale of the ****ing centuary.

Where about are you in Europe?

I very much agree with you. As we have seen so far in this format war, the Day/Date releases have without a doubt dominated sales. You are also correct in mentioning that Blu-ray has most of the Day/Date releases going forward. Once again, HD-DVD's only marketing plan it seems is slightly cheaper hardware, catalog releases and combo discs which command a premium price. I just do not see HD-DVD realistically making it much longer.

Of course you don't see HD-DVD surviving -- because you're a Blu-ray supporter and have been all along. Sales of these formats are pathetic, yet you continue to claim that Blu-Ray is guaranteed victory. When you factor in the CE advantage, studio support advantage, marketing blitz, Sony's subsidizing of PS3's AND disc manufacturing, the constant BOGO sales, 50% off sales, movie rebate forms packed with the PS3, and the advantage in hardware #'s due to the PS3, HOW can anyone think Blu-Ray is showing success?

If you questioned Mike Dunn, Bob Chapek, or Jon Feltheimer 12 months ago regarding their expectations for BD disc sales in March, 2007, I GUARANTEE they would never have believed all this promotion would equal a virtual stand-still with the format they claimed had no business in the marketplace. EVERYONE involved in the BDA thought the PS3 would miraculously win the format war for Blu-Ray. They never counted on the Wii destroying the PS3, nor did they factor into play the XBox 360 out-selling the PS3, but it's happened (I find it hysterical that Sony spokesmen are still claiming limited availability of the PS3 when it is readily available everywhere!)

Now that Universal and others have returned to an aggressive slate of releases starting March 27th, you won't continue to see BD dominance in software sales. And when the inevitable price drops for HD-DVD hardware hit later this year, they could have the same effect for HD as the PS3 had for BD!

As plazman pointed out, the Toshiba players are, by far, the best selling stand-alone HD players on the market. Did you read the recent article from VB that approximated 1.7 million HD-DVD players sold by the end of 2007?

http://www.videobusiness.com/article/CA6422896.html

It went on the indicate BD player sales would be very similar, including 22% (the current % of PS3 owners buying BD movies) of a suggested 5.5 million PS3's. Will Sony even hit this mark with the sluggish sales of this console? Tough to say. In any event, it demonstrates that HD-DVD is experiencing steady growth. We already know the attach rate of movies is much better for the HD-DVD format. If this is accurate, and there actually ARE nearly 2 million HD-DVD players in households by the end of 2007, do you really believe every BD-exclusive studio will continue to ignore the HD-DVD player-base?

Lee,

I strongly disagree with your previous statement regarding the PS3. The PS3 is by far the biggest selling HD playback device out there. It single-handedly propelled Blu-ray past HD-DVD in software release after Christmas of 2006. I am sure there are some people who prefer a standalone Blu-ray player to the PS3, however as you read AVS, more and more people who "felt" this way have changed their tune as they themselves have bought the PS3 and have been very impressed with it. The PS3 is the best consumer electronic device value in existance right now. It also is arguable the best Blu-ray play interms of quality as well. While reading my latest issue of Home Theater Magazine last night, Geoffrey Morrision concluded in his analysis that the PS3 was as good as the Pioneer Blu-ray player and I agree with him.

As far as Blu-ray hardware pricing goes, here are some examples:

The PS3 is $459.00 at CC.

is that the lower GB model?

The BD-P1000 is available many places for around $425.00.

link please and verify sales #

The new Sony will street for around $450.00 to $499.00 starting in June.

Sony specifically said SUMMER of 2007 (begins 6/21/07 - ends 9/2/07) there was NO month mentioned in the press release . . and you are guessing at street price on a BD player that does not exist today.

[QUOTESo as I stated and have proved, HD-DVD's hardware is "slightly" cheaper then Blu-ray's. While at the same time Blu-ray's software is "slightly" cheaper then that of HD-DVD's. Josh

Sorry . . . you have yet to prove it to me.

A guess. How many do you think it will move in, let's say, a month's time? When Crank is the previous best-selling disc and moves 7,500 in a 3-week period, how many do you think a stellar title will move? After all, there are fewer than 2 million players including PS3's in households, and most PS3 owners are not buying BD movies. Maybe I'm way off base here. Based on previous titles, how many do you think they will move?

It was recently reported that the Departed sold about 23,000 BDs in its opening week. And that movie had HD discs released as well, and didnt do as well as Casino Royale in theatres. Henceforth, Im gonna guestimate at least 50,000 copies opening week. Maybe more.

Expensive Pfft! I have orders down for six PS3,s I remember paying £300 years and years ago for the PS2. In the UK it must have been priced right, news reports are now saying if you haven't pre-ordered you probably have missed the boat.

Its a deal.....its a steal....its the sale of the ****ing centuary.

Where about are you in Europe?
Except that these PR statements have been proven wrong and you can pre-order from ANYWHERE you want in the U.K."steal of the century"??The thing costs around 850-900 $ in Europe.Well these forums have gone to hell from ps3 fanboys and have become worse than gaming forums.Some of you are sounding like you work fom sony,you don't read things like that not even on ps3-specific forums.

I am from Greece.

Care to pint out ONE U.K online retailer that is sold out of ps3 and you can't pre-order one today,less than 2 weeks before launch??

It was recently reported that the Departed sold about 23,000 BDs in its opening week. And that movie had HD discs released as well, and didnt do as well as Casino Royale in theatres. Henceforth, Im gonna guestimate at least 50,000 copies opening week. Maybe more.

50,000 figure just for NA?

It was recently reported that the Departed sold about 23,000 BDs in its opening week. And that movie had HD discs released as well, and didnt do as well as Casino Royale in theatres. Henceforth, Im gonna guestimate at least 50,000 copies opening week. Maybe more.

OK . . .guesstimate of sales of DVE on HD DVD - 200,000. . . maybe more.

Expensive Pfft! I have orders down for six PS3,s I remember paying £300 years and years ago for the PS2. In the UK it must have been priced right, news reports are now saying if you haven't pre-ordered you probably have missed the boat.

Its a deal.....its a steal....its the sale of the ****ing centuary.

Where about are you in Europe?


You may have missed the unbelievable furor in Japan and the US regarding the PS3 launch as well! Prices on ebay were $3000, people waited in lines all over both countries, hype was on the news EVERYWHERE, demand far exceeded supplies, people were injured or shot waiting in lines...

Soon afterwards a funny thing happened...nobody seemed to care anymore. Ebay prices in both countries plummetted, many instances BELOW retail prices! Consoles sat on retailer shelves everywhere, and continue to sit there selling very slowly, while the Wii was stripped from retailers as quickly as Nintendo could produce them!

And the PS3 is even MORE expensive in Europe than these other countries, AND it's been stripped down in features! You will soon see that this launch is 90% hype and 10% demand...

You may have missed the unbelievable furor in Japan and the US regarding the PS3 launch as well! Prices on ebay were $3000, people waited in lines all over both countries, hype was on the news EVERYWHERE, demand far exceeded supplies, people were injured or shot waiting in lines...

Soon afterwards a funny thing happened...nobody seemed to care anymore.

You might want to reconsider as actual games start to come out for the PS3....

Sales of PS3 in Japan DOUBLED because of new games, but in the USA the lack of games (Motorstorm only debuted 2 days ago) is causing confusion...are people using it for Blu-ray instead?

http://www.itwire.com.au/content/view/10338/1092/

-----------------------------------

Kotuku has gathered the latest weeks Japanese video game hardware sales, and for the Sony it shows a sharp increase in the bottom line. The actual figures from Media Create are;

* DS Lite: 111, 814 units
* PSP: 66, 156 units
* Wii: 57,972 units
* PS3: 44,000 units
* PS2: 15,364 units
* Xbox 360: 3,379 units

The PS3 Selling 44,000 units for the week ending March 4th is a jump of over 100% from the previous week.

We know how the Japanese love their giant robot battling games, so it comes as no surprise that the number one selling game in the same period was the PS3 version of Gundam Musou. Sales of this game along with lack of units for the Nintendo Wii and enticing software for the Xbox 360 (after the Blue Dragon sales burst) sees the PS3 sales on fire.

You may have missed the unbelievable furor in Japan and the US regarding the PS3 launch as well! Prices on ebay were $3000, people waited in lines all over both countries, hype was on the news EVERYWHERE, demand far exceeded supplies, people were injured or shot waiting in lines...

Soon afterwards a funny thing happened...nobody seemed to care anymore. Ebay prices in both countries plummetted, many instances BELOW retail prices! Consoles sat on retailer shelves everywhere, and continue to sit there selling very slowly, while the Wii was stripped from retailers as quickly as Nintendo could produce them!

And the PS3 is even MORE expensive in Europe than these other countries, AND it's been stripped down in features! You will soon see that this launch is 90% hype and 10% demand...

Wait and see Bob, its only a couple of weeks away. As for the Wii...it cant even play HD disc on any format...what is the relevance of it in discussions on a HD forum :o

You may have missed the unbelievable furor in Japan and the US regarding the PS3 launch as well! Prices on ebay were $3000, people waited in lines all over both countries, hype was on the news EVERYWHERE, demand far exceeded supplies, people were injured or shot waiting in lines...

Soon afterwards a funny thing happened...nobody seemed to care anymore. Ebay prices in both countries plummetted, many instances BELOW retail prices! Consoles sat on retailer shelves everywhere, and continue to sit there selling very slowly, while the Wii was stripped from retailers as quickly as Nintendo could produce them!

And the PS3 is even MORE expensive in Europe than these other countries, AND it's been stripped down in features! You will soon see that this launch is 90% hype and 10% demand...
The ps3 and the xbox360 had aprox. the same number of untis available in their first 2 months in the U.S.The xbox360(retail price 400$) had a price tag of 1000$ on e-bay at the end of 2005.The ps3 was selling at below retail prices on e-bay at the end of 2006.

Let them have their hopes up.Europe is the last place left for them and then they'll have nothing to brag about(except beating xbox360 in....Japan).Meanwhile the February NPD is coming next Thursday and we'll have a laugh with that.

Wait and see Bob, its only a couple of weeks away. As for the Wii...it cant even play HD disc on any format...what is the relevance of it in discussions on a HD forum :o
I agree "wait and see".I enjoy optimism of people like you on forums cause i love the bitter tears that come afterwards.

OK . . .guesstimate of sales of DVE on HD DVD - 200,000. . . maybe more.

Im not good with initials so I dont know what DVE means. But Im not sure how you think my Casino Royale estimates could be wrong or that far off. Again if combined Departed sold 37,000 BDs and HDs in opening week, how do you not think Casino Royale can and will do at least 50,000? That seems reasonable to me. You can quote my estimate and if Im really wrong I will be happy to admit it.

I agree "wait and see".I enjoy optimism of people like you on forums cause i love the bitter tears that come afterwards.

No probs, I also own a couple of Xbox 360s bought them for GOW and HALO3 when it appears.....The PS3 is the next new must have gadget. At the end of the day its only money my friend and there are no pockets in a shroud ;)

Wait and see Bob, its only a couple of weeks away. As for the Wii...it cant even play HD disc on any format...what is the relevance of it in discussions on a HD forum :o

The relevance is that they are competing in the videogame market and the Wii is killing it in this market. If you hadn't heard, the PS3 is actually a videogame system first & foremost. ;)

Wait and see Bob, its only a couple of weeks away. As for the Wii...it cant even play HD disc on any format...what is the relevance of it in discussions on a HD forum :o

Ahhhhh . . . here lies the problem. Is the PS3 a game console or a BD player. According to yesterdays article 78% feel it is a GC while 22% feel it is a BD player.

Wait and see Bob, its only a couple of weeks away. As for the Wii...it cant even play HD disc on any format...what is the relevance of it in discussions on a HD forum :o

The wii is the last hope of Hd-DVD :rolleyes:

Ahhhhh . . . here lies the problem. Is the PS3 a game console or a BD player. According to yesterdays article 78% feel it is a GC while 22% feel it is a BD player.

That's from ONE consultant, who mentions BUYING of discs....in fact, all the PS3 owners I know RENT (or try to) blu titles from netflix or BB.

I think people are forgetting that the rental business is BIG business, and these PS3 buyers are definitely trying out Blu-ray this way.

Im not good with initials so I dont know what DVE means. But Im not sure how you think my Casino Royale estimates could be wrong or that far off. Again if combined Departed sold 37,000 BDs and HDs in opening week, how do you not think Casino Royale can and will do at least 50,000? That seems reasonable to me. You can quote my estimate and if Im really wrong I will be happy to admit it.

DVE = Digital Video Essentials - the HD DVD for HDTV owners to adjust their HDTV's and sound systems properly . . .. a "Test Pattern Disc" like AVIA.

That's from ONE consultant, who mentions BUYING of discs....in fact, all the PS3 owners I know RENT (or try to) blu titles from netflix or BB.

I think people are forgetting that the rental business is BIG business, and these PS3 buyers are definitely trying out Blu-ray this way.

Then the rental companies would have to buy more discs to keep up with the demand or what? . . . .people wait 30 days for their request to be filled?

That demand is barely showing up on the sales #

Same holds true for HD DVD. We rent also

DVE = Digital Video Essentials - the HD DVD for HDTV owners to adjust their HDTV's and sound systems properly . . .. a "Test Pattern Disc" like AVIA.

That sounds like excellent family veiwing over the xmas hols :D
Disney must be giving carefull consideration to their format exclusivity if HD-DVD can actualy muster Blockbuster titles like DVE.

Come on Lee, your scraping the bottom of the barrel here my freind :o

That sounds like excellent family veiwing over the xmas hols :D

No it sounds like the 15 million households that own an HDTV will probably want to set it up properly as opposed to guessing where are the controls should be set.

The SD DVD's of both DVE and AVIA have done VERY well since their inception so how does a BD owner setup his system? To get max performance?

The wii is the last hope of Hd-DVD :rolleyes:


The Wii has no significance to HD-DVD. I use it strictly to point out how the PS3's price has led to its sluggish sales all across the world. Sony has priced it out of most gamers' range, and the Wii and XBox 360 (to a smaller degree) have benefitted from this.

No it sounds like the 15 million households that own an HDTV will probably want to set it up properly as opposed to guessing where are the controls should be set.

The SD DVD's of both DVE and AVIA have done VERY well since their inception so how does a BD owner setup his system? To get max performance?

In my case my AV installer handles that side of things ;)

Do any of you see what is happening here?

For every HD DVD point there is a BD counter=point and visa versa . . . .

Just adds fuel to the FACT that there will probably be a stalemate and we will live with 2 formats.

In my case my AV installer handles that side of things ;)


Sorry . . . OK 14,999,999 house holds

Do any of you see what is happening here?

For every HD DVD point there is a BD counter=point and visa versa . . . .

Just adds fuel to the FACT that there will probably be a staelmate and we will live with 2 formats.

Wrong.....One format will go onto bigger and better things and the other will fade into history just like VHS and Betamax....but lets not go there ;)

Wrong.....One format will go onto bigger and better things and the other will fade into history just like VHS and Betamax....but lets not go there ;)

So how is UMD and UMD-HD doing these days?

And you are right . . . as MY fanboy (clearly marked) stated:

HD DVD wins the war! :) . . . And Sony has ANOTHER dead format to sell! :o

Do any of you see what is happening here?

For every HD DVD point there is a BD counter=point and visa versa . . . .

Just adds fuel to the FACT that there will probably be a stalemate and we will live with 2 formats.

Not when Blu-ray is outselling Hd-dvd by at least 2:1 with some very big blockbusters coming out like Spiderman, PoTC, cars, etc. :p

Then the rental companies would have to buy more discs to keep up with the demand or what? . . . .people wait 30 days for their request to be filled?

That demand is barely showing up on the sales #

Same holds true for HD DVD. We rent also

Actually, I've been waiting for Blu-ray titles from BB for more than a month now...netflix seems to be doing better but the wait time is still long.

As to sales #s, CR will be the first true test of using a "blockbuster" to spur sales....it's doing extremely well in the amazon.com rankings (#12 right now), even beating handily the full-screen version of CR on SD DVD. I expect Spidey on Blu-ray to be the really huge catalyst for Blu-ray.

Btw, my point was that most PS3 buyers may not BUY movies, but they most definitely will be renting them when they are available in Netflix or bb because of the very low cost compared to buying...i am very curious as to the queues and rental numbers for these.

As much as I hate to admit it, Bluray will win because the PS3 will make it win, its that simple.

Take this snippet from #PS3 on efnet:

[09:33] <spAcemAn_> got 13 blu-ray movies already:P
[09:33] <spAcemAn_> cant wait to check the quality
[09:34] <spAcemAn_> i bought the movies also @mediamarkt
[09:34] <[-JuNka-]> BR movies?
[09:34] <spAcemAn_> but pre orderd the PS3 @Dynbayte
[09:34] <spAcemAn_> yeah
[09:34] <M05H> i ordered at Fnac
[09:34] <[-JuNka-]> what titles
[09:34] <spAcemAn_> uuhm
[09:35] <M05H> i will receive an Ultaviolet BD free
[09:36] <spAcemAn_> Underworld Evolution, Vertical Limit, S.W.A.T, Trainig Day Swordfish, Full Metal Jacket, Hitch, X Men the Last Stand, The Transporter, Flight of the Phoeniux, Behind Enemy Lines, Tears of the Sun, Layer Cae
[09:36] <spAcemAn_> cake*
[09:36] <spAcemAn_> thats it:)
[09:36] <spAcemAn_> going to grab some more


This euro has 13 movies already waiting for his PS3 to arrive, and he is a prime example of joe average videogame player. HD-dvd numbers will not increase at a fast enough margin to compete with even really slow PS3 market growth. Its over folks.

I beg to differ. I too am a Joe Average video game player with absolutely no interest in the PS3 or there format. I guess you can say I was grandfathered in to HD-DVD thanx to the HD-DVD add-on. This average joe is going to get 2 more titles on top of the 7 he alreadyhas. You forget...there are potentially 10 million xbox360 owners just waiting for a good enough reason to invest in HD-DVD. Just give them the right time, movie selection and/or price.

On the rental side of things

I have an email from Blockbuster UK in which it states it will be selling select Blu Ray titles but didnt have a date for rentals.

I also have another email from Blockbuster Uk in which it states, that they are undecided at this time wether they will stock HD-DVD for either sale or rental purposes.

Dont take my word for it email them yourselfs ;)

Btw, my point was that most PS3 buyers may not BUY movies, but they most definitely will be renting them when they are available in Netflix or bb because of the very low cost compared to buying...i am very curious as to the queues and rental numbers for these.

There we go again. You are assuming:

1. Most BD owners HAVE an HDTV - unproven Professional Consultant hired by Paramount for Big Bucks says 22% - refute with 3rd party claim

2. Most BD owners are renting BD movies not buying - See above for contrary statement. Again unproven and renting DOES NOT help end the format war. Again it prolongs it. No heavy out of pocket expense other than player cost. Whatever applies to BD applies to HD DVD when it comes to renting.

You forget...there are potentially 10 million xbox360 owners just waiting for a good enough reason to invest in HD-DVD. Just give them the right time, movie selection and/or price.


...and every PS3 sold is an actual capable HD movie unit without having to buy anything else. The incentive to purchase or rent increases dramatically.

...and every PS3 sold is an actual capable HD movie unit without having to buy anything else. The incentive to purchase or rent increases dramatically.

Really? So I don't need an HDTV to watch CARS in HD?

Guys:

here are the numbers: (post #10 THIS thread)

Since Inception Date:

BD Disc sales . . . . . ... = 694,000

HD DVD disc sales . . . . = 655,000

Anyone watch the Daytona 500 or MLB or NBA?

No game nor race s called after 50 laps, or 3 innings or 1 period

Don't forget the European audience will be receiving CR free with the PS3, so that alone will dilute the sales #'s worldwide!

The Departed won Best Picture & Director, so I don't see how CR will destroy this movie in sales. We shall see.

Since when do awards translate to big sales.

HD-DVD has plenty of 'worthy' movies, but it's often popcorn blockbusters that are the trail blazers.

There we go again. You are assuming:

1. Most BD owners HAVE an HDTV - unproven Professional Consultant hired by Paramount for Big Bucks says 22% - refute with 3rd party claim

2. Most BD owners are renting BD movies not buying - See above for contrary statement. Again unproven and renting DOES NOT help end the format war. Again it prolongs it. No heavy out of pocket expense other than player cost. Whatever applies to BD applies to HD DVD when it comes to renting.

You miss my point...PS3 players may have a low attach rate when it comes to buying, but renting is a different animal altogether...if even half of the PS3 owners start renting, then it will make a MUCH bigger impact than HD-DVD given the much larger base of Blu-ray.

PS. That is still ONE consultant, who again talks about attachment rates for REGULARLY BUYING. Not renting, Not buying a few discs. In fact, he never clarified what he meant by "regularly buying", I think.

A guess. How many do you think it will move in, let's say, a month's time? When Crank is the previous best-selling disc and moves 7,500 in a 3-week period, how many do you think a stellar title will move? After all, there are fewer than 2 million players including PS3's in households, and most PS3 owners are not buying BD movies. Maybe I'm way off base here. Based on previous titles, how many do you think they will move?

Considering "The Departed" moved 23,000 copies in one week I think Casino Royale will move quite a few more.

Also consider, Technically Casino Royale will move a guarenteed 500,000 copies in Europe because the first 500,000 PS3s sold will all have those discs with them.

So basically you're way off no matter which way you cut it.

promise this
promise that
delivers none

I used to use the above lines to describe BD. Now it's more and more fitting for HD DVD.

Guys:

here are the numbers: (post #10 THIS thread)

Since Inception Date:

BD Disc sales . . . . . ... = 694,000

HD DVD disc sales . . . . = 655,000

Anyone watch the Daytona 500 or MLB or NBA?

No game nor race s called after 50 laps, or 3 innings or 1 period

Except this SI numbers hides the fact that BD is CURRENTLY outselling Hd-DVd (at least up to february - we all know March will be big for Blu-ray) by more than 2 to 1 (67% or so to 33%) and has sold more in less than 2 months what it sold in all of 2006.

And, no, this is not an ice hockey game or a racing game.

You miss my point...PS3 players may have a low attach rate when it comes to buying, but renting is a different animal altogether...if even half of the PS3 owners start renting, then it will make a MUCH bigger impact than HD-DVD given the much larger base of Blu-ray.

PS. That is still ONE consultant, who again talks about attachment rates for REGULARLY BUYING. Not renting, Not buying a few discs. In fact, he never clarified what he meant by "regularly buying", I think.

Well lets see . . . so far we have two sources who have stated how many BD owners have HDTV:

1. Sony Sr. Exec. of Marketing - 80%

2. Independent Consultant - 22%

So the 22% is not what you wanted so lets just throw it out right?

Once again . . . .renting does not end the format war . . . it prolongs it. Can you see this? if you can't say so.

Don't forget the impact of the porn industry. It appears they are adopting the HD-DVD format due to Sony's reluctance to work with them. That industry is just gearing up, so their impact has not even been felt yet.

Jon

This argument is tired and old, The majority of the porn industries income now comes from online sources, what would you rather spend 40 bucks for an HD-DVD or get a subscription for 20 bucks a month that will give you access to a family of websites and potentially about 40 new movies a month you can simply download? Does anyone really care about having porn in 1080? Most people watch it on their PC at 320X240. Also most people like the discreteness the net provides, you don't have porn movies sitting in your house for people to find.

The porn industry will have a much smaller impact on this war than the big movie studios, and lastly it's already been confirmed that blu-ray will be supporting the porn industry.

Except this SI numbers hides the fact that BD is CURRENTLY outselling Hd-DVd (at least up to february - we all know March will be big for Blu-ray) by more than 2 to 1 (67% or so to 33%) and has sold more in less than 2 months what it sold in all of 2006.

And, no, this is not an ice hockey game or a racing game.

Article states numbers good as of 2/25/07.

So if you agree not a sporting event then how can you a BD owner declare a victory when the battle is far from over?

The "problem" with these "blockbuster" movies that Disney is going to release on BD is that almost everyone has already purchased them on SD DVD.

So if you have already purchased the 3 movies in question on SD DVD and you own a BD player . . . what? . . . .you going to buy them again cause now they are in HD? That could get expensive.

So I guess no one should should buy anything on HD DVD or Blu-ray that they already own on DVD? I guess no one should have bought anything on DVD that they already owned on VHS either. :rolleyes:

This argument is tired and old, The majority of the porn industries income now comes from online sources, what would you rather spend 40 bucks for an HD-DVD or get a subscription for 20 bucks a month that will give you access to a family of websites and potentially about 40 new movies a month you can simply download? Does anyone really care about having porn in 1080? Most people watch it on their PC at 320X240. Also most people like the discreteness the net provides, you don't have porn movies sitting in your house for people to find.

The porn industry will have a much smaller impact on this war than the big movie studios, and lastly it's already been confirmed that blu-ray will be supporting the porn industry.

Agreed . . . example of analogy of VHS does NOT hold water.

Oh by the way, I have seen HD porn vias a master tape and I will tell you it is disgusting . . you can see every stretch mark, pimple, scar, blackhead, boo-boo and rash. .. .after 10 minutes i left the room it was that bad and I have nothing against porn.

And you would draw that conclusion because:

1. HD DVD standalone players are still outselling their BD counterparts. The top 2 selling Hi def DVD players are both HD DVD. The A-2 is #5 among all DVD players.
http://www.amazon.com/gp/bestsellers/electronics/1036922/ref=pd_ts_e_nav/102-4279731-5297722

2. HD DVD is holding steady with around 33% of disks sold - even with a relatively weak release schedule so far this year.

3. Some sites like dvdempire are showing weeks where HD DVD is outselling BD
http://www.dvdempire.com/index.asp?userid=99365463975691&tab_id=61&site_id=68&site_media_id=0

Can you clarify what you mean by life support?

1. You are wrong and we all know that, according to NPD stand alone player sales are almost deadlocked. Amazon.com in now way reflects the entire market, quit trying to apply a single e-store sample to the entire market like it's fact.

2. Yes, that is true thus far this year. But if you look at recent movies released on both formats the Blu-rays are selling better. And that number is likely to decrease during this time when HD-DVD is releasing NO NEW movies.

3. We all know why dvdempire.com is reflecting this. Most people who shop online for movies go to several online sites to get their movies, it's obvious that everyone is taking advantage of the great deals on the Amazon.com sale and thus when they decide to get a movie that isn't part of the sale, they are choosing Amazon.com because they are already at the site and it's easier to bundle all the movies together for shipping. As a result dvdempire.com is not getting as many people buying blu-ray. But if you look at the numbers for the year they reflect a healthy lead for Blu-ray.

Article states numbers good as of 2/25/07.

So if you agree not a sporting event then how can you a BD owner declare a victory when the battle is far from over?

hey, let me repeat this AGAIN for the hundredth time - i never said the battle is OVER now, what i've repeatedly said is that given the current data and reasonable projections of sales based on upcoming releases and the studio strength, Blu-ray is most likely the "winner", and this thing is already winding down. the fact that no one can seem to give a reasonable argument against this (other than "the horse race is just beginning, sales are "miniscule", and "wait for those cheap chinese players") simply validates my opinion.

So I guess no one should should buy anything on HD DVD or Blu-ray that they already own on DVD? I guess no one should have bought anything on DVD that they already owned on VHS either. :rolleyes:

That is a gross statement nothing more and yes it appears that many ARE NOY buying movies they already own in SD DVD or sales of HD movies would be MUCH higher.

Please i urge all of you to try to keep personal opinions to a minimum and present your argument with facts. That way we don't sink to the fanboy posting level.

I welcome a good debate but you got to have facts.

That is a gross statement nothing more and yes it appears that many ARE NOY buying movies they already own in SD DVD or sales of HD movies would be MUCH higher.

Please i urge all of you to try to keep personal opinions to a minimum and present your argument with facts. That way we don't sink to the fanboy posting level.

I welcome a good debate but you got to have facts.

Can you please take your own advice and present the facts that people are not buying HD movies that they already own on SD DVD? What exactly are the few of us who own HD players buying then especially since most releases are catalog titles?

hey, let me repeat this AGAIN for the hundredth time - i never said the battle is OVER now, what i've repeatedly said is that given the current data and reasonable projections of sales based on upcoming releases and the studio strength, Blu-ray is most likely the "winner", and this thing is already winding down. the fact that no one can seem to give a reasonable argument against this (other than "the horse race is just beginning, sales are "miniscule", and "wait for those cheap chinese players") simply validates my opinion.


Current data (one week old - nothing released this past week by EITHER BD or HD DVD) says BD has a less than 7% lead in disc sales.

So that's it? HD DVD just fold up now and lose your share of the 100 BILLION dollars that HD movies will generate over the next 20 years.

PLEASE think from a business level not as 'I want my format to win" level.

So if standalone player sales are deadlocked and the Amazon link at the very least shows people are buying HD DVD Players, how would that translate into HD DVD being in its last throes?

Again, you didn't either understand the context of the question or chose not to answer it. All indications are that after aggressive marketing, sales and promotions, BD is ahead in terms of sale. But it isn't stomping out HD DVD since both hardware and software continues to not only sell, but also grow.

Show me data - anywhere that shows HD DVD sales are declining and I'll say that is a valid data point that HD DVD is likely to fail. A format cannot fail when they are adding users.....

Fox at CES put up a chart that showed HD DVD sales declining at some point. That was more important than showing BD having a 3:1 sales advantage. Everyone knows, that for a format to fail at some point sales for that format has to decline. As long as sales are not declining, as long as there is growth it makes no sense to predict that the war is over. The war isn't over as long as one side has an incentive to fight. This is just basic common sense. Basic. Yet, common sense I find, is not so common ;)

The only place it's alive and well is in this forum. Other than that, I don't think anyone has even seen or heard of their main advertising thrust: Some mobile unit with a few monitors or something. With that kind of bright ideas, we might be looking at door to door salesmen in the spring.


The only place where you can read so much misinformation about both formats is the forums.
The only place where both formats are doing well is the forums.

This is like the fantasy world.
Reality is out there.

The Departed was in the high teens and low twenties several weeks before release, and continued to be in the mid to high twenties for the weeks following. Will CR sell 2x or 3x as many units? We'll have to see.

Blatantly false. The highest it ever got on Blu-ray was after the 50% off sale was announced and all Blu-ray movies got a boost. I think it was #18 at one point, but that was well AFTER the release.

And it did not continue to be in the mid 20s, it fell to 50, 60, 70. Which is where both HD-DVD version and Blu-ray stayed for a while until it recovered once people started becoming aware of the good sales it was having at Brick Stores, word of mouth you see.

Both versions even fell out of the top 100 shortly a week or two after release on Amazon.

As I've said, if you want to be technical about it, it will have 500,000 additional units in circulation from the get go.

Casino Royale has been consistently high before the release. The Departed didn't get down to the 20s till just before the release day. Casino Royale has been in the 20s and 30s for weeks now.

And from the reviews of "The Departed" PQ and AQ, Casino Royale is being shown off as superior. AVC codes, PCM audio, 50GB Disc, getting 5/5 for both PQ and AQ from tons of reviews. I guess we will see huh.

Can you please take your own advice and present the facts that people are not buying HD movies that they already own on SD DVD? What exactly are the few of us who own HD players buying then especially since most releases are catalog titles?

The problem with this back and forth posting is that there is no way to retreive facts. I have not seen ANY provided links in all the BD supporters posts. Just "conclusions" based on opinions and heresay.

Hell when i present facts . . .they aren't good enough. So you want me to accept your opinions but you won't accept my facts? Is that it?

We have yet to have a "mega blockester" that has sold 20 million copies like CARS be released on HD movies.

What the studios have BEEN doing (both sides) is offering alot of "fluff" titles and some that did not do well hoping they can get some more money for movies that bombed both in the theater and on DVD.

So . . . .I believe three times I have asked for links to statements made and NOT ONCE has someone provided a link.

The ps3 and the xbox360 had aprox. the same number of untis available in their first 2 months in the U.S.The xbox360(retail price 400$) had a price tag of 1000$ on e-bay at the end of 2005.The ps3 was selling at below retail prices on e-bay at the end of 2006.

Let them have their hopes up.Europe is the last place left for them and then they'll have nothing to brag about(except beating xbox360 in....Japan).Meanwhile the February NPD is coming next Thursday and we'll have a laugh with that.

It's been well documented why.

1) 360 1st Hi-def machine available.
2) M$ only made 2 shipments of the 360 and had around 600,000 available before the end of the year. It's a well known FACT anyone looking for a 360 knows, there was launch, and around December 10-14 their was 1 more shipment. What do you expect to happen to the price when no units are made available because of crappy manufacturing?
3) Same number? Please, it's well known that Sony was flying PS3s WEEKLY, people knew they had a chance to get one at the store if they tried so why turn to ebay? They were retailing for around 3,000 at launch, and for around 1200 dollars until December 12th or so. What happened then? Sony manufacturing came out and said they had solved the blu-laser diode problem and their was no more bottleneck and they would be able to deliver them. Which they did deliver 1 million units by December 31st.
4) Considering the 360 only sold 50k more units in January on the back of Gears of War and Lost Planet. And February saw no strong releases in the US from either system, I think you might be surprised.

I was watching TV yesterday, and saw a commercial for a new "recently released from the vault" Disney movie, Peter Pan. My first thought was, "If they're committed to BD, why aren't they releasing it on that format too?" I think Disney's on the fence about releasing in high def at all right now.

The only way Disney will support hd dvd is if BD is a total failure. Steve Jobs is the single biggest shareholder in Disney and we all know how he hates Microsoft.

Nope. Blu-ray was really born/released last June '06, not December '06.

Then using your definition of "win/lose", BD lost in September 06. ;)

Blatantly false. The highest it ever got on Blu-ray was after the 50% off sale was announced and all Blu-ray movies got a boost. I think it was #18 at one point, but that was well AFTER the release.

And it did not continue to be in the mid 20s, it fell to 50, 60, 70. Which is where both HD-DVD version and Blu-ray stayed for a while until it recovered once people started becoming aware of the good sales it was having at Brick Stores, word of mouth you see.

Both versions even fell out of the top 100 shortly a week or two after release on Amazon.

As I've said, if you want to be technical about it, it will have 500,000 additional units in circulation from the get go.

Casino Royale has been consistently high before the release. The Departed didn't get down to the 20s till just before the release day. Casino Royale has been in the 20s and 30s for weeks now.

And from the reviews of "The Departed" PQ and AQ, Casino Royale is being shown off as superior. AVC codes, PCM audio, 50GB Disc, getting 5/5 for both PQ and AQ from tons of reviews. I guess we will see huh.

Do you have a link with the sales rank?

Looks like you play fast and loose with the facts :rolleyes:

http://bluray.highdefdigest.com/casinoroyale.html

The problem with this back and forth posting is that there is no way to retreive facts. I have not seen ANY provided links in all the BD supporters posts. Just "conclusions" based on opinions and heresay.

Hell when i present facts . . .they aren't good enough. So you want me to accept your opinions but you won't accept my facts? Is that it?

We have yet to have a "mega blockester" that has sold 20 million copies like CARS be released on HD movies.

What the studios have BEEN doing (both sides) is offering alot of "fluff" titles and some that did not do well hoping they can get some more money for movies that bombed both in the theater and on DVD.

So . . . .I believe three times I have asked for links to statements made and NOT ONCE has someone provided a link.

I responded to what I thought was a ridiculous statement that YOU made about HD movies and SD DVDs. What does that have to do with BR supporters or anything else you just posted? And what facts did you present that showed people AREN'T buying catalog titles? What exactly are people buying then? :confused:

The only way Disney will support hd dvd is if BD is a total failure. Steve Jobs is the single biggest shareholder in Disney and we all know how he hates Microsoft.

As far as Apple is concerned:

http://www.apple.com/pr/library/2005/apr/17hd.html

http://www.apple.com/finalcutstudio/dvdstudiopro/quicktours/

Once again. Facts are the enemy of the BD supporter, or they are clearly misinformed of what is going on in the industry ;)

I responded to what I thought was a ridiculous statement that YOU made about HD movies and SD DVDs. What does that have to do with BR supporters or anything else you just posted? And what facts did you present that showed people AREN'T buying catalog titles? What exactly are people buying then? :confused:

You know what . . I will simply ignore your post as so many have ignored mine. :)

So if standalone player sales are deadlocked and the Amazon link at the very least shows people are buying HD DVD Players, how would that translate into HD DVD being in its last throes?

Again, you didn't either understand the context of the question or chose not to answer it. All indications are that after aggressive marketing, sales and promotions, BD is ahead in terms of sale. But it isn't stomping out HD DVD since both hardware and software continues to not only sell, but also grow.

Show me data - anywhere that shows HD DVD sales are declining and I'll say that is a valid data point that HD DVD is likely to fail. A format cannot fail when they are adding users.....

Fox at CES put up a chart that showed HD DVD sales declining at some point. That was more important than showing BD having a 3:1 sales advantage. Everyone knows, that for a format to fail at some point sales for that format has to decline. As long as sales are not declining, as long as there is growth it makes no sense to predict that the war is over. The war isn't over as long as one side has an incentive to fight. This is just basic common sense. Basic. Yet, common sense I find, is not so common ;)

This is where we disagree.

As I recall Betamax didn't have declining sales, it just got outsold to the point where it couldn't be supported effectively anymore.

You're wrong. Any format can lose while adding figures. As Sega about Dreamcast. They kept adding sales, increasing sales in fact. Even after PS2 launched, but once PS2s lead became larger retailers started buying less Dreamcasts and more PS2s because of how they were selling.

Dreamcasts section became smaller at stores because of this and then lost customer awareness because of that, which then in turn resulted in a SALES DECLINE.

I'm not predicting the war is over right now, or that HD-DVD is in the last throws.

Ask any retailer. When it comes to media formats as sales of 1 increase over another and both formats grow they have to choose what they will give floor space to.

I've seen this at some of the places I go to. The HD-DVD section has been reduced to make room for more Blu-ray titles. Consider this Plaz.

1) Look at the retailer who likely sales the most DVDs...probably BB. I think it's highly likely they sell more than anyone, walmart, CC, or anyone. They have less stores than walmart, but have you ever seen ther DVD section? It's easily twice the size of most walmart stores and they have better sales and prices often times.

2) That DVD section is STILL GROWING. And as long as DVDs are still selling well, they must expand the floor space (of course this depends on how much revenue they generate per square ft) Revenue per square ft is a vital fundamental metric to almost every retailer.

3) Both the HD-DVD sections and Blu-ray sections are growing. As new releases come out and they start to sell more the sections will grow. They can't just remove old titles to keep the section small, a customer may go elsewhere if they want those movies.

4) Regardless of discounts, or whatever, currently Blu-ray is selling 2:1. Nielson does get data from BB right? So if Bestbuys nationwide are selling 2 times the amount of Blu-ray discs as HD-DVD discs what does that tell us?

5) It tells us that they know they could be selling twice a much in the floor space HD-DVD is taking up. As it is the exact same product (a Hi-def movie) that has no distinguishing features that make 1 superior to the other (for instance you have many different brands of cameras, pcs, TVs, but why is that? The products offer different features). As pointed out by several marketing folks, once this number approaches 3 to 1, or 4 to 1 on increasing volume (which the volume is now starting to increase significantly over last year) why would you keep floor space for an item when you could simply eliminate the floor space and place 1 format and sell more?

6) If you have shopped for Hi-def at the store you know that movies are in fact selling out of stock available. Which means that more money could be made on one format if there was more space for that format. But as it is the space is being taken by 2 formats.

The only way Disney will support hd dvd is if BD is a total failure. Steve Jobs is the single biggest shareholder in Disney and we all know how he hates Microsoft.
I never said Disney would support HD-DVD, I said that Disney isn't really supporting BD all that much. Why isn't Peter Pan, a movie I've seen TV commercials for about a dozen times in the last couple of weeks, being released on BD if they're firmly behind a format? I think they're still paranoid about the lack of DRM personally.

As far as Apple is concerned:

http://www.apple.com/pr/library/2005/apr/17hd.html

http://www.apple.com/finalcutstudio/dvdstudiopro/quicktours/

Once again. Facts are the enemy of the BD supporter, or they are clearly misinformed of what is going on in the industry ;)

As far as apple is concerned they have exercised the option to be a Blu-ray manufacturer and they haven't done anything with regards to HD-DVD.

Blu Ray IS killing HD DVD (ironically, for all the reasons you listed above)...But not a quick death but a slice across the gut...a slow bleeder that leads to eminent...like the slow number of releases....when is the next HD DVD release date?

What has HD DVD done in the last month to bolster themselves as a contender? I haven't seen anything.

Really....If you had a friend who really wanted a HD player, could you really, in good faith recommend HD DVD over Blu Ray today?


I think not.

Given all of bluray's positives and HD DVD is still that close with fewer everything movies, players and studios I think it's bluray that will have a slow death while hermoraghing tons of money in the process. Just wait until HD DVD owners get new titles to buy. The pendulum will definately change. Because it's clear HD DVD owners buy more movies per unit.

I never said Disney would support HD-DVD, I said that Disney isn't really supporting BD all that much. Why isn't Peter Pan, a movie I've seen TV commercials for about a dozen times in the last couple of weeks, being released on BD if they're firmly behind a format? I think they're still paranoid about the lack of DRM personally.

Uh....the first pixar movie is coming out this year, as well as POTC I, II, III.

If you haven't noticed, it's probably gonna be difficult to sell cartoons in Hi-def IMO. It's a much better idea to sell their CGI titles or any BuenaVista movies like POTC.

Eventually they will be releasing the entire Pixar library on Blu-ray.

Titles with Release dates:

Chicken Little
Finding Neverland
G.I. Jane
King Arthur Director's Cut
Deja Vu
The Queen
Pirates of the Caribbean: Dead Man's Chest
Pirates of the Caribbean: The Curse of the Black Pearl
Cars
Con Air
Crimson Tide
The Rock

Planned releases as indicated by press statements from BuenaVista.

Beauty and the Beast
Father of the Bride (1991)
Herbie: Fully Loaded
Kill Bill: Vol. 1
Kill Bill: Vol. 2
The Lion King
National Treasure
Open Range
Remember the Titans
Sin City
Snow Dogs
Waiting

Looks like a fine list to me.

24 Titles. Seems pretty committed, how is this "one the fence"

I don't know, I bet a lot of people aren't replacing. I Know I'm not (except for Serenity, which I couldn't resist, and a couple of others).



I will do you one better. I sold all of my SD collection to eventually replace on HD and there were over 300 DVDs. If you have a favorite movie and wish to see a better quality version you bet your ass people will replace it.

Uh....the first pixar movie is coming out this year, as well as POTC I, II, III.

If you haven't noticed, it's probably gonna be difficult to sell cartoons in Hi-def IMO. It's a much better idea to sell their CGI titles or any BuenaVista movies like POTC.

Eventually they will be releasing the entire Pixar library on Blu-ray.

OK here are the numbers:

As of 2/25/07 BD has outsold HD DVD by less than 7%. (disc sales)

As of 2/25/07 BD has outsold HD DVD hardware wise by 5X.

Please . . . make the nunbers work and tell me about winning the war . . .victory for BD?

I don't want to hear about a single title or a single week. I want to hear about since both formats have been birthed

Oh by the way HD movies is it for about 20 years or so. With Disney's record of releasing "vault" titles we should see them when? . . this year, next year, 3 years from now, 20 years from now?

Do you have a link with the sales rank?

Looks like you play fast and loose with the facts :rolleyes:

http://bluray.highdefdigest.com/casinoroyale.html

Uh? What does a link to hidef digest prove about the sales rankings?

Unfortunately the author of the eproductwars.com has removed the sales ranking feature going back to since pre-order was available, it only covers the last week or so.

http://www.eproductwars.com/asinsaleshistory.cfm?db=dvd&asin=B000MRA5NS

http://www.eproductwars.com/graph.cfm?show=21

But since you ask, look at the second link, the beginning date of recording is on 2/8/2007, the release was on the 13th. So it only achieved that sales rank of #18 on release day. And then again later on. Just as I said.

http://www.eproductwars.com/graph.cfm?show=79

Casino Royales as of 2/14/2007. When supply ran out it fell. But as you can see it's been consistently high before release. It's been in the 30s for 2 weeks now.

This is where we disagree.

As I recall Betamax didn't have declining sales, it just got outsold to the point where it couldn't be supported effectively anymore.

You're wrong. Any format can lose while adding figures. As Sega about Dreamcast. They kept adding sales, increasing sales in fact. Even after PS2 launched, but once PS2s lead became larger retailers started buying less Dreamcasts and more PS2s because of how they were selling.

Dreamcasts section became smaller at stores because of this and then lost customer awareness because of that, which then in turn resulted in a SALES DECLINE.

I'm not predicting the war is over right now, or that HD-DVD is in the last throws.

Ask any retailer. When it comes to media formats as sales of 1 increase over another and both formats grow they have to choose what they will give floor space to.

I've seen this at some of the places I go to. The HD-DVD section has been reduced to make room for more Blu-ray titles. Consider this Plaz.

1) Look at the retailer who likely sales the most DVDs...probably BB. I think it's highly likely they sell more than anyone, walmart, CC, or anyone. They have less stores than walmart, but have you ever seen ther DVD section? It's easily twice the size of most walmart stores and they have better sales and prices often times.

2) That DVD section is STILL GROWING. And as long as DVDs are still selling well, they must expand the floor space (of course this depends on how much revenue they generate per square ft) Revenue per square ft is a vital fundamental metric to almost every retailer.

3) Both the HD-DVD sections and Blu-ray sections are growing. As new releases come out and they start to sell more the sections will grow. They can't just remove old titles to keep the section small, a customer may go elsewhere if they want those movies.

4) Regardless of discounts, or whatever, currently Blu-ray is selling 2:1. Nielson does get data from BB right? So if Bestbuys nationwide are selling 2 times the amount of Blu-ray discs as HD-DVD discs what does that tell us?

5) It tells us that they know they could be selling twice a much in the floor space HD-DVD is taking up. As it is the exact same product (a Hi-def movie) that has no distinguishing features that make 1 superior to the other (for instance you have many different brands of cameras, pcs, TVs, but why is that? The products offer different features). As pointed out by several marketing folks, once this number approaches 3 to 1, or 4 to 1 on increasing volume (which the volume is now starting to increase significantly over last year) why would you keep floor space for an item when you could simply eliminate the floor space and place 1 format and sell more?

6) If you have shopped for Hi-def at the store you know that movies are in fact selling out of stock available. Which means that more money could be made on one format if there was more space for that format. But as it is the space is being taken by 2 formats.
The three Best Buys within a reasonable distance from me (Mountain View, East Palo Alto, and San Carlos) all have expanded their HD DVD/Blu-ray disk offerings with equal space given to both. Same with Fry's in Palo Alto. Consider that. Anyone can find a meanless data point if you look :rolleyes:

web

I go even a step further (since I own both formats anyway).

From inception until today: 40+ HD DVD movies vs 4 BD movies
movies I plan to buy in 2007 (based on announced titles thus far): 2 HD DVD vs 30+ BD

maybe my "problem" stems from being sick and tired buying catalog movies over and over again (VHS, then LD, then DVD, then remastered DVD) whereas BD concentrates more on new releases which now I'd rather spend money on (and no, I won't re-buy PoC II or Cars on BD since I already own the SD DVD)

Will anyone agree that pre-order numbers mean very little as they can be cancelled up to the time of the day before shipping?

yup! I've cancelled pre orders many times due to various reasons.

I ordered 3 titles from Amazon on 2/26/07 . . one was BULLITT (release date 2/27) in HD DVD, one was an existing HD DVD out about 3 months ago (in stock) and one was an in stock SD DVD,

On 3/2/07 I had seen that Amazon DID NOT ship my order . . . so i cancelled it - went to CC and bought the 3 titles there that night.

They still will go down as sales . . . but not at Amazon

OK here are the numbers:

As of 2/25/07 BD has outsold HD DVD by less than 7%. (disc sales)

As of 2/25/07 BD has outsold HD DVD hardware wise by 5X.

Please . . . make the nunbers work and tell me about winning the war . . .victory for BD?

I don't want to hear about a single title or a single week. I want to hear about since both formats have been birthed

Oh by the way HD movies is it for about 20 years or so. With Disney's record of releasing "vault" titles we should see them when? . . this year, next year, 3 years from now, 20 years from now?

Don't want this post to get left behind on previous page . . . it has THE NUMBERS

Really? So I don't need an HDTV to watch CARS in HD?

now you're really grasping. hd-dvd desperation.

Given all of bluray's positives and HD DVD is still that close with fewer everything movies, players and studios I think it's bluray that will have a slow death while hermoraghing tons of money in the process. Just wait until HD DVD owners get new titles to buy. The pendulum will definately change. Because it's clear HD DVD owners buy more movies per unit.

Your so called saving attach rates aren't that high.

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=9992376#post9992376

As can be seen here. From our best estimates available. Total discs sold to date is 744k to 680k.

If HD-DVD had 175,000 players last year, and now by estimates (92k HD-DVD add ons were in that number meaning 83k stand alone. basically 1 for 1 and the HD-DVD add on sold 20k in January, and likely 20k in February, so if we add 80k, which is giving favoritism to HD stand alone sales, considering the HD-DVD add on was only added in November. So from April - December 9 months puts player sales more likely at 10k a month) Anyway. Estimate that is 255k HD-DVD players.

680k/255k = 2.66 attach rate for HD-DVD players thus far.

For Blu-ray players, NPD indicates stand alones are almost dead locked. So that would be 120k by my estimates. If we add PS3 numbers 687k from 2006, +244k in January and assume similar sales for February we get 1.175 million PS3s in the US. +120k = 1.295 million or 1295k.

744k/1295k = 0.5745 attach rate for BD players.

This includes what was relatively good sales last year for HD-DVD when Universal was releasing 10+ movies a month. If you look at eproductwars.com and look back to last summer HD-DVD was consistently in the 500 levels for sales ranking of the top 10 in the months before the PS3 release. A level which they have not come back to yet. So to assume that they will simply because Universal will finally start releasing movies again is not right. If you look at the confirmed release schedule this still favors Blu-ray 51 to 38. *If* fox, mgm, and sony get new release dates for movies that had release dates and were then delayed (and we also apply this to HD-DVD titles announced and then delayed) that number goes to 73 to 41.

The whole point is, the attach rate for HD-DVD is not so great, and Blu-rays is not good either. You know the 360 has a 5.5 - 6 game attach rate so far. And those games cost 60 bucks a piece. I think that speaks more to the fact that both formats are not even close to mainstream yet.

If we push out numbers. It's not likely that the HD-DVD add on increases any time soon so assume 20k a month. (this will go up in summer months as kids are out of school, then back down, and then up in October with Black Friday and holiday months). The same applies to the PS3, it's not likely to decrease or increase in sales at the moment, possibly up in summer, and then down, and then up again for the Holidays.

I think I'm being extremely favorable to HD-DVD stand alone, and Blu-ray stand alone player sales by assuming 20k a month for now. There is no evidence they have increase dramatically even at 400 dollars, and there is no reason to assume the new Sony player will dramatically increase sales. 20k a month is twice what it was last year.

So lets add this up.

March - (HD-DVD 20k+20k) (BD 244k+20k)
April - (HD-DVD 20k+20k) (BD 244k+20k)
May - (HD-DVD 20k+20k) (BD 244k+20k)
June - (HD-DVD 30k+30k) (BD 300k+30k)
July - (HD-DVD 30k+30k) (BD 300k+30k)
August - (HD-DVD 25k+25k) (BD 244k+25k)

Let's assume HD-DVDs get a price drop, and the add-on also price drops by fall, they are after all supposed to. Also, since NPD has indicated despite higher prices Blu-ray stand alone players sell just as well as HD-DVD stand alones, Blu-ray stand alones will increase by the same factor.

September - (HD-DVD 50k+50k) (BD 244k+50k)
October - (HD-DVD 65k+65k) (BD 350k+65k)
November - (HD-DVD 90k+90k) (BD 450k+90k)
December - (HD-DVD 120k+120k) (BD 800k+120k)

I think I'm being very conservative with the PS3 numbers. I've set it much lower than 360s year-over-year increase. I've also not factored anything crazy in (like for instance a price drop, which if 360 price drops the PS3 WILL because they simply won't have a choice. Ala May 2002 when PS2 price dropped and forced Xbox to price drop at the same time)

Year end - HD-DVD - 1195k Players BD - 5185k

Obviously the attach rates will get higher than they are now as more people by movies. But let's say it stays a similar rate. Right now HD-DVD enjoys a 4.63 times greater attach rate. Simply multiply, 1195k*4.63 and you get 5532k which would make the playing exactly what it is now basically.

Again, this is all estimation, many things can change between now and then. Blu-ray could generate a higher attach rate, or HD-DVD could sell more low cost players, or the PS3 could sell better, or have a price drop.

Still, I think it shows fairly conclusively that the attach rate advantage is negated by the player advantage Blu-ray will continue to have.

now you're really grasping. hd-dvd desperation.

Please address Post #152 BD supporter :D

Please address Post #152 BD supporter :D

I support reality. I dont even have a player, but I'm not ignorant of reality.

I will do you one better. I sold all of my SD collection to eventually replace on HD and there were over 300 DVDs. If you have a favorite movie and wish to see a better quality version you bet your ass people will replace it.

uh, no. Not from DVD to Hi-def.

As everyone knows the difference between VHS and DVD was ridiculous. The quality was so much better and the features were big. The ability to jump to scenes, see deleted scenes, and bonus material. Instead of fast forwarding you could just go to it.

Hi-def only has better picture, there are no additional features other than that. Which is why library titles sell so much less than new titles. New titles consistently sell 2 times as many copies on both Hi-def formats as library titles.

Most people WILL NOT replace their old DVD titles. Ask yourself? Is it easier to rationalize spending 27 bucks to replace a movie you already have? Or spend 27 bucks as opposed to 20 bucks (dvd price) on a movie you don't have yet?

You have a larger DVD collection than the average joe even has, and you are a very unique case and not J6P. You're not unique on this forum, as most movie buffs would do what you did. But who has 300*27 bucks = 8100 dollars to spend to replace their library? Not most average families.

Still, I think it shows fairly conclusively that the attach rate advantage is negated by the player advantage Blu-ray will continue to have.

thank you for summing up what I've been trying to lay out for some time, you laid out that information very well. The PS3 is simply a steamroller, and even with slow adoption its going to roll right over hd-dvd player sales and keep going. I'll admit, I personally wouldn't really want one as my player, but for most people, its simply impossible to ignore.

I don't want to hear about a single title or a single week. I want to hear about since both formats have been birthed

The problem with your reasoning is that looking at simply SI hides the CURRENT situation is terms of current sales. This finer-grained analysis is important because without the current weekly sales numbers it will be much harder to project future sales - sales SI hides any "acceleration" of sales, which we all know is happening (e.g. Blu-ray has sold more in the last 1.5 months than it did in all of 2006).

BD is outselling HD-DVD right now by at least a factor of 2:1 every week, which translates into a much faster growth in its SI numbers as well (a fact which is hidden when looking at a "snapshot" of the SI numbers - why don't you project that SI numbers into a graph and you'll see BD climbing very fast). Add in the big blockbuster intros of Blu-ray in late March and into the Summer and we can reasonably assume that the 2:1 current sales ratio will only grow in BD's favor, which means that the SI numbers will also have a widening of the gap between BD and Hd-dvd.

Again, the point is that you cannot look at a SNAPSHOT of sales and expect to derive projected sales in the future - you need to look at the sales over time.

The three Best Buys within a reasonable distance from me (Mountain View, East Palo Alto, and San Carlos) all have expanded their HD DVD/Blu-ray disk offerings with equal space given to both. Same with Fry's in Palo Alto. Consider that. Anyone can find a meanless data point if you look :rolleyes:

web

Nielson includes Brick not just online sales. So in overall sales, from BB, CC, Frys, etc. Blu-ray is selling twice as much.

Yes, you could find meaningless data points. But eventually anectdotal evidence turns into real evidence. Just like when people said they were seeing a tide turning after the PS3 in that Blu-ray sections were selling more movies. Then that evidence came when Nielson finally reported numbers.

There is evidence of a few chains (in the US) only supporting Blu-ray, the largest electronics seller in Austrilia has declared support for only Blu-ray movies. And I have seen HD-DVD sections getting smaller, OR Blu-ray sections given more floor space and more prominence in their store placement (which could be the result of the BDA giving a little marketing cash out, but it's impossible to tell that or whether the retailer simply wants to place it more prominently and give it more space)

Strom, The link to highdefdigest was to show that CR did not get a 5 star rating. I was pointing to the endless hyperbolic claims by BDA supporters. Didn't you say CR was 5 stars. AFAIK, it was an AVS poster - and BD supporter who self rated it. But I could be wrong. Anyway, a link would be useful :)

I agree 100% with the OP. HD DVD is a great product saddled with pathetic marketing.

Here are the two most recent articles on the format war:

http://www.videobusiness.com/article/CA6422896.html

http://www.twice.com/article/CA6422671.html

Both have numbers in them of what has been sold and what may be sold:

SUMATION

12/31/07 - still 2 formats

And here is the article that states what the Chinese are doing with HD DVD:

http://www.videobusiness.com/article/CA6423230.html

I go even a step further (since I own both formats anyway).

From inception until today: 40+ HD DVD movies vs 4 BD movies
movies I plan to buy in 2007 (based on announced titles thus far): 2 HD DVD vs 30+ BD

maybe my "problem" stems from being sick and tired buying catalog movies over and over again (VHS, then LD, then DVD, then remastered DVD) whereas BD concentrates more on new releases which now I'd rather spend money on (and no, I won't re-buy PoC II or Cars on BD since I already own the SD DVD)

Fortunately for me I have not bought too many DVDs. I think Blu-ray (or HD-DVD if you must) is simply great.

I'm not saying it's the last step, cause we will be downloading movies in 10 or 15 years. (On a large scale....I know you can do this know, but only in 720p and it takes forever, read about it, there's a bandwidth shortage because organizations like google that now own youtube are hogging all the available bandwidth with little 320X240 movies, anyone think they can offer 15GB 1080p movies over the net to 150 million American households? Doubtful.)

But 1080p really is about what you can see a maximum benefit with. 1440, you would have to have a 60 or 70" screen and be sitting within 5 feet to even notice it.

So I think this is great, because it may be the last step for quite some time in replacing movies. New movies of course will start to use things like full digital filming, which will eliminate grain, but those will be new, and not replacing your old stuff.

I see your point clearly, last year you were buying a lot of HD-DVD movies, but now there is really very little new content compared to BD so you are planning to buy many more Blu-ray movies.

Strom, The link to highdefdigest was to show that CR did not get a 5 star rating. I was pointing to the endless hyperbolic claims by BDA supporters. Didn't you say CR was 5 stars. AFAIK, it was an AVS poster - and BD supporter who self rated it. But I could be wrong. Anyway, a link would be useful :)

I agree 100% with the OP. HD DVD is a great product saddled with pathetic marketing.

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=814035&page=1

9/10 and 10/10.

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=816114&highlight=casino+royale+review

That thread was titled "another 5/5" leading me to assume there has been more than one given.

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=815435&highlight=casino+royale+review

Audio and Video gave a 5/5.

It actually looks like Hi-def digests opinion is in the minority...

As an HD DVD owner only I can tell you we have had an abismill releasing calendar since the first of the year. . . and I am NOT alone in this thinking. Again this past week neither format released anything. . . zip . . zero . . .NADA.

I see WB talking about great titles to be released this year . . . but no firm release dates. Paramount says nothing.

Movies are being released at a rate of 2 or 3 per week.

Last qtr DVD sold 120 million units.

We are 2 fleas arguing who owns the dog they are sitting on!

Yet with all that is going on HD DVD is still less than 7% behind BD

If I am not mistaken Home Theatre Forum is a basically a BD site, where even the editor Chad V. ( I believe is his name) voted on this forum that he had returned his HD DVD player. He can correct me here. So, this is akin to Amir rating aN HD DVD title. At least Hidefdigest is supposed to be a neutral site....

The other link is from ign. I leave the credibility of that site for others to determine :)

So, yes. the BDA is doing a good job promoting their product and getting their reviews out. Hence why when sites like hidefdigest post a review it looks like they are in the minority. It's called guerilla marketing....as consumers we should care about the steak more than the sizzle. JMHO

Yet with all that is going on HD DVD is still less than 7% behind BD

Dude, you can keep your hands to your ears and keep repeating nah, nah, nah, but the fact is that if you actually look at the sales over time (as opposed to a static snapshot of SI numbers, which btw was heavily on Hd-dvds side just a couple months or so back) you'll see that BD is pretty much running away from the competition, and it will only get worse as blockbusters releases from Bd come this spring and summer.

and btw, at one point in time VHS was selling vastly more than DVD, but we all know how that turned out once the manufacturers agreed DVD would be the next format of choice.

Yet with all that is going on HD DVD is still less than 7% behind BD

yet at one time it was ahead. now its 'just a little behind'. :rolleyes:

As an HD DVD owner only I can tell you we have had an abismill releasing calendar since the first of the year. . . and I am NOT alone in this thinking. Again this past week neither format released anything. . . zip . . zero . . .NADA.

I see WB talking about great titles to be released this year . . . but no firm release dates. Paramount says nothing.

Movies are being released at a rate of 2 or 3 per week.

Last qtr DVD sold 120 million units.

We are 2 fleas arguing who owns the dog they are sitting on!

Yet with all that is going on HD DVD is still less than 7% behind BD

That is true. I think Blu-ray will sell 850,000 units this quarter, we'll have to see what DVD sells, but I gaurentee it will be well less than 120 million, (October, November, December, comone BB was selling Batman Begins for 6.99, the Bourne Supremacy for 4.99, SWAT 4.99, all on Black Friday, Pre-Christmas Sells, and Post Christmas, those sales are gone now and numbers will come way down by how much I don't know, but I think it will be considerably less).

Add in 425,000 for HD-DVD and thats 1.3 million I think DVD is perhaps as low as 50 million for Q1 that's more than 2% total. It's growing, slowly, but surely.

Blu-ray is releasing 5 a week for the rest of the Month, you must be referring to HD-DVD only release 2 or 3 a week.

And HD-DVD is behind by 8.6% now. When adding in data for week ending March 4th.

Here are the two most recent articles on the format war:

http://www.videobusiness.com/article/CA6422896.html

http://www.twice.com/article/CA6422671.html

Both have numbers in them of what has been sold and what may be sold:

SUMATION

12/31/07 - still 2 formats

And here is the article that states what the Chinese are doing with HD DVD:

http://www.videobusiness.com/article/CA6423230.html


"Not so with Blu-ray and HD DVD, at least not to date. If you can’t watch the movies you want, it doesn’t really matter how cheap your machine is."

Thats lifted out of the aricle you refered to Lee, players can cost $50 but if the content isint popular enough they wont sell :D

Dude, you can keep your hands to your ears and keep repeating nah, nah, nah, but the fact is that if you actually look at the sales over time (as opposed to a static snapshot of SI numbers, which btw was heavily on Hd-dvds side just a couple months or so back) you'll see that BD is pretty much running away from the competition, and it will only get worse as blockbusters releases from Bd come this spring and summer.

and btw, at one point in time VHS was selling vastly more than DVD, but we all know how that turned out once the manufacturers agreed DVD would be the next format of choice.

Universal news. Let's start with HD-DVD. Specific dates are still TBA, but here's what the studio is prepping for high-definition over the summer (most of the April and May titles are already confirmed):

April - The Good Shepherd, Smokin' Aces, The Game, The Jerk, The Hitcher, Eternal Sunshine of the Spotless Mind, The Nutty Professor

May - Alpha Dog, The 40-Year-Old Virgin: Unrated, Smokey and the Bandit, Hurricane, Skeleton Key, The River, Midnight Run, The Frighteners, The Big Lebowski, Dragonheart, Lost in Translation

June - Breach, Bruce Almighty, Liar Liar, Sneakers, Born on the 4th of July, Scent of a Women, Daylight, Monty Python's The Meaning of Life, Meet Joe Black, Mallrats, Being John Malkovich, Mystery Men, American Me, The Watcher, Bulletproof

July - Billy Madison, The War, The Wedding Date, Dante's Peak, Cat in the Hat, Dead Silence, The Bourne Identity, The Nutty Professor 2, In Good Company, Streets of Fire, Hot Fuzz, Sea of Love, Darkman, Shaun of the Dead, Deliver Us from Eva

August - Heroes: Season One

September - The Last Starfighter, Legend, Battlestar Galactica: Season One, For the Love of the Game, Knocked Up, Evening, The Getaway: Unrated, Patch Adams, Cat People"

Bring it on! :cool:

If I am not mistaken Home Theatre Forum is a basically a BD site, where even the editor Chad V. ( I believe is his name) voted on this forum that he had returned his HD DVD player. He can correct me here. So, this is akin to Amir rating aN HD DVD title. At least Hidefdigest is supposed to be a neutral site....

You know what Plaz, you can just admit it is getting descent reviews. I think the 4/5 is a mistake from Hi-def from everything I'm hearing.

But it doesn't change the fact that it did get a 5/5 for both PQ and AQ from Audio and Video a reputable site. And also a 9/10 (which to me is not the same as 4/5) PQ and 10/10 AQ.

Universal news. Let's start with HD-DVD. Specific dates are still TBA, but here's what the studio is prepping for high-definition over the summer (most of the April and May titles are already confirmed):

April - The Good Shepherd, Smokin' Aces, The Game, The Jerk, The Hitcher, Eternal Sunshine of the Spotless Mind, The Nutty Professor

May - Alpha Dog, The 40-Year-Old Virgin: Unrated, Smokey and the Bandit, Hurricane, Skeleton Key, The River, Midnight Run, The Frighteners, The Big Lebowski, Dragonheart, Lost in Translation

June - Breach, Bruce Almighty, Liar Liar, Sneakers, Born on the 4th of July, Scent of a Women, Daylight, Monty Python's The Meaning of Life, Meet Joe Black, Mallrats, Being John Malkovich, Mystery Men, American Me, The Watcher, Bulletproof

July - Billy Madison, The War, The Wedding Date, Dante's Peak, Cat in the Hat, Dead Silence, The Bourne Identity, The Nutty Professor 2, In Good Company, Streets of Fire, Hot Fuzz, Sea of Love, Darkman, Shaun of the Dead, Deliver Us from Eva

August - Heroes: Season One

September - The Last Starfighter, Legend, Battlestar Galactica: Season One, For the Love of the Game, Knocked Up, Evening, The Getaway: Unrated, Patch Adams, Cat People"

Bring it on! :cool:

Both Sony and Fox are planning to release as many movies this year as Universal. Around 100 for each studio.

That doesn't include BuenaVista, Lionsgate, and MGM titles.

Indeed, bring it on...

"Not so with Blu-ray and HD DVD, at least not to date. If you can’t watch the movies you want, it doesn’t really matter how cheap your machine is."

Thats lifted out of the aricle you refered to Lee, players can cost $50 but if the content isint popular enough they wont sell :D

We can do this ALL day: :rolleyes:


"Fewer than 10% of DVD buyers said they intend to buy HD DVD or BD in the next six months, when accounting for both HDTV owners and non-owners."

OK . . .guesstimate of sales of DVE on HD DVD - 200,000. . . maybe more.
You're really not helping the HD DVD side. You're not really comparing DVE to Casino Royale, are you?

Lee,

Did you post here under the tsd2005 account previously? If not that one, have you posted under a different account here before the "Lee Stewart" one?
I don't want to hear about a single title or a single week. I want to hear about since both formats have been birthedBy your logic, we could say that RCA's CED format is killing HD DVD, despite being pretty much dead for way over 10 years. A studio exec who just looked at current SI numbers and not runrate would have to be pretty incompetent. For instance, if Blu-ray was to build up a big lead in SI by September and then HD DVD got it back to even by 12/31/07, that would be a very bad sign for HD DVD and I have a feeling you would change your tune pretty much instantly as to whether it was runrate or SI that mattered the most.
Will anyone agree that pre-order numbers mean very little as they can be cancelled up to the time of the day before shipping?Nope. Purchased items can also be returned unopened. By your logic we could say that sales mean little until people have passed the period where they can return it for a full refund (I think that is about 30 days at Best Buy and 90 days at Wal-Mart). If you want to discount pre-orders by some reasonable amount or be on the lookout for manipulation then go ahead, but if pre-orders get cancelled they should hurt the rankings at that time. Do you think the pre-orders that get filled without getting cancelled should count?

--Darin

The "problem" with these "blockbuster" movies that Disney is going to release on BD is that almost everyone has already purchased them on SD DVD.

So if you have already purchased the 3 movies in question on SD DVD and you own a BD player . . . what? . . . .you going to buy them again cause now they are in HD? That could get expensive.Now are you going to turn around and tell us that Universal's catalog is going to make a huge difference in this war? Or are you counting on day-and-date releases from Universal, or something else? Basically, I'm wondering if you are going to come up with some convoluted logic to claim that Universals >5 year old catalog titles are going to have great significance, while titles like "Cars" and the two "Pirates of the Caribean" movies won't. It looks to me like day-and-date releases have more significance in general than titles already released on DVD when they are at close to the same level as far as popularity of movie, but that applies to both sides.
We have over/almost 1 million HD DVD players installed.Where did that number come from?

--Darin

The Departed was in the high teens and low twenties several weeks before release, and continued to be in the mid to high twenties for the weeks following.
Once again. Facts are the enemy of the BD supporter, or they are clearly misinformed of what is going on in the industry ;)
Just go to http://www.hdgamedb.com/amazon/versus.aspx and look at the past 45 day or past 30 day charts for these. "The Departed" was released on 2/13/07.

--Darin

Just go to http://www.hdgamedb.com/amazon/versus.aspx and look at the past 45 day or past 30 day charts for these. "The Departed" was released on 2/13/07.

--Darin

I think that shows fairly conclusively that Casino Royale has been consistently high ever since it was announced for pre-order.

Blu Ray IS killing HD DVD (ironically, for all the reasons you listed above)...But not a quick death but a slice across the gut...a slow bleeder that leads to eminent...like the slow number of releases....when is the next HD DVD release date?

Yet HD-DVD outsold Blu-Ray last week at DVD Empire. This is far from over. Smokey and the Bandit will bring HD-DVD to the redneck masses! :rolleyes:

Yet HD-DVD outsold Blu-Ray last week at DVD Empire.No. Last week Blu-ray outsold HD DVD on there. This week HD DVD was shown to have the lead through the first day or two of the week, but we won't know who will have won the week starting March 6th until the final numbers come in (when the first snapshot of the start of the week starting March 13th goes up and the final numbers for the March 6th week go up). I think HD DVD could outsell them for that week, but we don't have the numbers yet.

--Darin

Yet HD-DVD outsold Blu-Ray last week at DVD Empire. This is far from over. Smokey and the Bandit will bring HD-DVD to the redneck masses! :rolleyes:

Have we not discussed this in detail?

1) Blu-ray is ahead for the entire year at dvdempire.com
2) It is highly likely that people who purchase their movies online purchase them from dvdempire.com, amazon.com, and other online outlets.
3) Given 2, the sale going on at Amazon.com has taken sales away from Blu-ray on most online retailers.

Both Sony and Fox are planning to release as many movies this year as Universal. Around 100 for each studio.

That doesn't include BuenaVista, Lionsgate, and MGM titles.

Indeed, bring it on...

Here is a little bit of advice. Buy both formats and bring every bit of it on.

No. Last week Blu-ray outsold HD DVD on there. This week HD DVD was shown to have the lead through the first day or two of the week, but we won't know who will have won the week starting March 6th until the final numbers come in (when the first snapshot of the start of the week starting March 13th goes up and the final numbers for the March 6th week go up). I think HD DVD could outsell them for that week, but we don't have the numbers yet.

--Darin

http://www.dvdempire.com/index.asp?userid=99365463975691&tab_id=61&site_id=68&site_media_id=0

How would you interpret the week and month sales for this?

No. Last week Blu-ray outsold HD DVD on there. This week HD DVD was shown to have the lead through the first day or two of the week, but we won't know who will have won the week starting March 6th until the final numbers come in (when the first snapshot of the start of the week starting March 13th goes up and the final numbers for the March 6th week go up). I think HD DVD could outsell them for that week, but we don't have the numbers yet.

--Darin


Yes it did.

I think that shows fairly conclusively that Casino Royale has been consistently high ever since it was announced for pre-order.

On that chart, you can compare the chart of The Departed BD version along with Casino Royale and you'll see that The Departed was selling above Casino Royale for a few days or pretty close on many others.

Also, The Departed was ranked between 20-40 on Amazon from 2-04 thru 2-027. I believe the 50% off if anything, lowered the ranking for The Departed.

In any case, my point is not that Casino Royale will not outsell The Deaprted. It will. However, I believe it is not correct to say that The Departed was just another release with mediorce rankings on BD and just one of the 13 titles released that week. It wasn't. At least on Amazon, it was consistently one of the highest ranked titles for several weeks....

Have we not discussed this in detail?

1) Blu-ray is ahead for the entire year at dvdempire.com
2) It is highly likely that people who purchase their movies online purchase them from dvdempire.com, amazon.com, and other online outlets.
3) Given 2, the sale going on at Amazon.com has taken sales away from Blu-ray on most online retailers.

That sale didn't start until after the DVD Empire numbers were up. Just pointing out that this format war is far from over.

Strom, The link to highdefdigest was to show that CR did not get a 5 star rating. I was pointing to the endless hyperbolic claims by BDA supporters. Didn't you say CR was 5 stars. AFAIK, it was an AVS poster - and BD supporter who self rated it. But I could be wrong. Anyway, a link would be useful :)

I agree 100% with the OP. HD DVD is a great product saddled with pathetic marketing.


Thank after this mourning I came back and read all these post and you were the first to point out what I was trying to say. They need to put HD DVD every where it should be, and any place they can. Like HD NET.......... :confused:

Yes it did.



I guess the moral of the story is until they show BD sales being higher, it hasn't been computed ;)

http://www.dvdempire.com/index.asp?userid=99365463975691&tab_id=61&site_id=68&site_media_id=0

I guess the moral of the story is until they show BD sales being higher, it hasn't been computed ;)

http://www.dvdempire.com/index.asp?userid=99365463975691&tab_id=61&site_id=68&site_media_id=0


I 'm just happy HD-DVD is holding up alright with the Sony hype machine at full throttle.

http://www.dvdempire.com/index.asp?userid=99365463975691&tab_id=61&site_id=68&site_media_id=0

How would you interpret the week and month sales for this?Okay, I see that this may be based on the Month's numbers, and not just the Week's numbers (which would make the claim erroneous). If you click on "Complete info" and then "Sales Data by Week" you can see that for the week of February 27th Blu-ray outsold HD DVD and then the "Week of Mar. 06th" has numbers, which if you know how they work you know is for a partial week. That info was put on March 7th or so (I don't remember exactly) and shows that HD DVD outsold them for a day or two there. The last complete week with data is the Feb 27th week. But given that the Month's numbers show HD DVD leading for the month I would say that there is probably one week where HD DVD won (it wasn't the 27th through March 5th since that shows Blu-ray won that week), but it depends on when you define that week starting and ending. There isn't a winner for the week of March 6th yet because that data isn't in yet, just a leader for that week. HD DVD could of course win it, but the March 6th week will get updated as the week progresses (at least by Tuesday or Wednesday). At the point the Mar. 13th week goes up we will have the complete data for the Mar. 06th week.
I guess the moral of the story is until they show BD sales being higher, it hasn't been computed ;) How about you tell us which week HD DVD won? And do you have the numbers for that week? If someone says 59.03% then I will know they don't know how to read the DVD Empire numbers, regardless of which side they are on.

--Darin

That sale didn't start until after the DVD Empire numbers were up. Just pointing out that this format war is far from over.

No, the numbers were only for the first part of the week at that point...March 5th only data. And the numbers went more in HD-DVDs favor after that.

The way I see it week is a part of month. So, if HD DVD is shown as ahead in week #2 and for the month. My natural instinct is to believe for the data they have for the month - whatever they mean by month, HD DVD is ahead. Now, if by being ahead for the month, means being behind for the month, that is logic I am not too familiar with ;)

And dvdempire should chage their sales reporting since it would not make sense ot an average joe like me :)

Okay, I see that this may be based on the Month's numbers, and not just the Week's numbers (which would make the claim erroneous). If you click on "Complete info" and then "Sales Data by Week" you can see that for the week of February 27th Blu-ray outsold HD DVD and then the "Week of Mar. 06th" has numbers, which if you know how they work you know is for a partial week. That info was put on March 7th or so (I don't remember exactly) and shows that HD DVD outsold them for a day or two there. The last complete week with data is the Feb 27th week. But given that the Month's numbers show HD DVD leading for the month I would say that there is probably one week where HD DVD won (it wasn't the 27th through March 5th since that shows Blu-ray won that week), but it depends on when you define that week starting and ending. There isn't a winner for the week of March 6th yet because that data isn't in yet, just a leader for that week. HD DVD could of course win it, but the March 6th week will get updated as the week progresses (at least by Tuesday or Wednesday). At the point the Mar. 13th week goes up we will have the complete data for the Mar. 06th week.
How about you tell us which week HD DVD won? And do you have the numbers for that week? If someone says 59.03% then I will know they don't know how to read the DVD Empire numbers, regardless of which side they are on.

--Darin

I think Darin has this nailed down. The week is not over yet, but it's obvious Blu-ray won the last week of February 27th. And then after that week was over the sale on Amazon.com started and that has decreased the amount of Blu-rays being purchased.

Nielson numbers for the week ending March 4th show HD-DVD mad up some ground 35 to 65%. When we see these numbers next week we should be able to tell whether Nielson is factoring Amazon in the extropolation of sales.

hdnoob, I think you were spot on. Had HD DVD not been a good product and value it is, it would have been buried by now by the BD marketing machine. But when you have a product that is better than people expected, you gotta market the hell out of it! Basic stuff.

The way I see it week is a part of month. So, if HD DVD is shown as ahead in week #2 and for the month. My natural instinct is to believe for the data they have for the month - whatever they mean by month, HD DVD is ahead. Now, if by being ahead for the month, means being behind for the month, that is logic I am not too familiar with ;)

And dvdempire should chage their sales reporting since it would not make sense ot an average joe like me :)

Of course you have to keep in context that this is only on dvdempire, and Nielson still reflected the range we have expected 69% to 65% for Blu-ray.

You're really not helping the HD DVD side. You're not really comparing DVE to Casino Royale, are you?

That you WUV?

No . . I was just using sarcaism and wild speculation to try to make a point.

Here is a little bit of advice. Buy both formats and bring every bit of it on.

Why spend an extra 400 dollars when I can just get a PS3 like a always planned to and get 85% of all the new releases?

...and every PS3 sold is an actual capable HD movie unit without having to buy anything else. The incentive to purchase or rent increases dramatically.


True but 600 dollars is not your idea of an "introductory" price tag. Like I have said before, for those of us who HAVE the xbox already (in case you wanna slide in that nonsense about PS3 equals xbox360 plus player stuff) have the option to....spend 600 on a PS3 and its blu-ray capabilities....or spend 199.99 on a perfectly good HD-DVD player. I simply chose the latter, along with the fact that...the "massive" blu-ray selection is not all that attractive yet (IMHO) and the exclusives in your gaming library are shrinking dramatically. BD player or not.....the PS3 is just not looking like a machine thats worth the price tag regardless of what you are using it for.

hdnoob, I think you were spot on. Had HD DVD not been a good product and value it is, it would have been buried by now by the BD marketing machine. But when you have a product that is better than people expected, you gotta market the hell out of it! Basic stuff.


I would like to add to that if I may. I speak for myself ,however, in order to respect plazman's own opinions.

It seems to me that people here tend to agree that the features and quality are overall somehwhat better on HD-DVD right now. I keep hearing blu-ray fans talking about how they are waiting for some kind of bd-live update in order to achieve these same features that are already available on HD-DVD. So, the way I am seeing this is....the blu-ray fans are not worried so much about quality as they are for their love of a company. It seems to be made up mostly of Sony lovers and PS3 fanatics who are praying that their machine does not become somewhat obsolete. Company preference over actual quality? Pathetic.

The way I see it week is a part of month. So, if HD DVD is shown as ahead in week #2 and for the month. My natural instinct is to believe for the data they have for the month - whatever they mean by month, HD DVD is ahead.Basically what I just said. :)
Now, if by being ahead for the month, means being behind for the month, that is logic I am not too familiar with ;)I'm not sure why you just said that. Either way, you don't have a week to point to where HD DVD won and you can tell us what the numbers were. You might after the next full week's numbers come in, but not yet.
And dvdempire should chage their sales reporting since it would not make sense ot an average joe like me :)I think they should add something about it being the week starting on a certain day, or use "week since xx...", or something like that. Some people had to watch the data for a little while to figure out that the weeks were for starting on the day given, not ending on the day given. Although in theory they could use something crazy like the week around the date given, but I don't think they are doing that.

--Darin

Please Everyone


Take a Break and Just read these posts! :D :D :D


Be creative!


http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=799023&page=1&pp=30

Darrin, I meant ahead for the month and behind for week! Since you said that dvdempire haven't reported any week where HD DVD is ahead, yet they have the month for which HD DVD is ahead. Logic would imply that there must have been a week when they were ahead. Otherwise, how could they be ahead for the month!

Yeah. I didn't mean ahead for the month meant behind for the month.. Now that would be illogical as well :)

Darrin, I meant ahead for the month and behind for week! Since you said that dvdempire haven't reported any week where HD DVD is ahead, yet they have the month for which HD DVD is ahead. Logic would imply that there must have been a week when they were ahead. Otherwise, how could they be ahead for the month!I think we agree. Like I said:
But given that the Month's numbers show HD DVD leading for the month I would say that there is probably one week where HD DVD won (it wasn't the 27th through March 5th since that shows Blu-ray won that week), but it depends on when you define that week starting and ending.--Darin

Why spend an extra 400 dollars when I can just get a PS3 like a always planned to and get 85% of all the new releases?


Mine only cost $200 but that 15% reminds me of the Mastercard priceless ads because that is exactly what it is. Just about no amount of money would keep me away from getting all my movies.

No, the numbers were only for the first part of the week at that point...March 5th only data. And the numbers went more in HD-DVDs favor after that.

Guess what? The war is still far from over and HD-DVD is doing just fine.

Why spend an extra 400 dollars when I can just get a PS3 like a always planned to and get 85% of all the new releases?

Because the XBox 360 has games. The PS3 doesn't.

So you're justifying a $500-$1000 investment on an upconverting DVD player?

Huh?

That's what our fearless leader would refer to as "fuzzy math".

For my two cents: Strong up-converting was a big factor in taking the HD plunge. A library of 400+ SD titles, is hard to simply toss out the door. And for those who've had a quick, real-world demo, there's a huge difference between what the Toshiba players produce, as opposed to bargain priced SD players. All up-converting is NOT equal. As far as I'm concerned, the Toshiba A1 is one of the best DVD players ever produced. Playing HD was like a huge, low risk bonus.

So, in essence: Up-converting a large library was a very significant part of deciding to go with HD...along with an attractive price for the player. And that was before Toshiba tossed in 3 free titles, much less the current 5.

yup, that's one of my reasons too. I own 1,600+ SD DVD.

Because the XBox 360 has games. The PS3 doesn't.

There are people who use the PS3 solely as a movie player. You're not required to use it as a game console.

I would like to add to that if I may. I speak for myself ,however, in order to respect plazman's own opinions.

It seems to me that people here tend to agree that the features and quality are overall somehwhat better on HD-DVD right now. I keep hearing blu-ray fans talking about how they are waiting for some kind of bd-live update in order to achieve these same features that are already available on HD-DVD. So, the way I am seeing this is....the blu-ray fans are not worried so much about quality as they are for their love of a company. It seems to be made up mostly of Sony lovers and PS3 fanatics who are praying that their machine does not become somewhat obsolete. Company preference over actual quality? Pathetic.

Actually, I think you're hearing HD DVD fans talking about BD-Live more than BD owners. They're usually the ones that bring it up as a negative. A lot of BD people on these boards have stated that they care more about the actual movie than interactive features. It's been discussed in numerous threads.

Actually, I think you're hearing HD DVD fans talking about BD-Live more than BD owners. They're usually the ones that bring it up as a negative. A lot of BD people on these boards have stated that they care more about the actual movie than interactive features. It's been discussed in numerous threads.

Translation: "They promised it to me, but I didn't get it. I don't want it anyway, so there."

Because the XBox 360 has games. The PS3 doesn't.

The 360 has 160 titles. Not that many, and only 300 can be accessed by backwards compatibility.

If I got a PS3 I would have access to the PS1 and PS2 vaults, especially if I got one now (as they have not yet removed the emotion chip on the consoles in America).

And lastly I would have to spend 600 dollars as opposed to 500 for the same thing.

Seeing as Blu Ray was 'born' Dec 06 with the release of the PS3, let me just ask this question:
What if the drives start failing? The PS2 did not have the best track record in this area. If PS3 BR drives start wearing out or breaking, that means that the sole affordable player that is driving the Blu Ray market will receive yet more bad press.
Don't get me wrong, Toshiba is in a similar position, but at least these machines were designed solely for the purpose of playing movies and there are several different models.
Hopefully Toshiba will kick the marketing upa gear when their players hit the $200 mark

The 360 has 160 titles. Not that many, and only 300 can be accessed by backwards compatibility.

If I got a PS3 I would have access to the PS1 and PS2 vaults, especially if I got one now (as they have not yet removed the emotion chip on the consoles in America).

And lastly I would have to spend 600 dollars as opposed to 500 for the same thing.

I have both but the 360 games destroy the PS3 games right now. Maybe that will change down the road. I just tried Motorstorm and its got great graphics but the gameplay gets old quick. Going forward the 360 has a very strong lineup including Mass Effect which will probably sell a bunch of systems.

Blu Ray IS killing HD DVD (ironically, for all the reasons you listed above)...But not a quick death but a slice across the gut...a slow bleeder that leads to eminent...like the slow number of releases....when is the next HD DVD release date?

What has HD DVD done in the last month to bolster themselves as a contender? I haven't seen anything.

Really....If you had a friend who really wanted a HD player, could you really, in good faith recommend HD DVD over Blu Ray today?


I think not.

absolutely !! HD DVD all the way .. Bill Gate's $56bil net fortune is behind the format !! ;)

All I've seen are banner ads....really crappy banner ads. Who thought associating HD DVD with centipedes was a good idea?

It's crap, it's all crap. Either the $150M was a lie, or they changed their mind, or they're sitting on it for some mysterious reason.

The 360 has 160 titles. Not that many, and only 300 can be accessed by backwards compatibility.

If I got a PS3 I would have access to the PS1 and PS2 vaults, especially if I got one now (as they have not yet removed the emotion chip on the consoles in America).

And lastly I would have to spend 600 dollars as opposed to 500 for the same thing.

But I am not interested in XBox or PS2 games. XBox 360 is currently delivering on all fronts with the PS3 lagging behind.

There are people who use the PS3 solely as a movie player. You're not required to use it as a game console.

In which case it makes more sense to buy a standalone.

Translation: "They promised it to me, but I didn't get it. I don't want it anyway, so there."

That could be it...or some of the people could be telling the truth.

In which case it makes more sense to buy a standalone.

Does it? Considering the PS3 is one of the more reasonably priced Blu-ray players and one of the better performing, I'm not sure it makes more sense to buy a standalone.

Does it? Considering the PS3 is one of the more reasonably priced Blu-ray players and one of the better performing, I'm not sure it makes more sense to buy a standalone.

PS3 doesn't have analog outs. Neither does my 360 HD DVD player, but it was only $200. I'd rather buy a Standalone than a PoS3. Sony lost me with their debacle of a system.

Yes I could and I would. Just for the quality of the upconvert of SD DVD into something that comes close to HiDef DVD.

Weird, the last HD-DVD I watched looked much better than what you are describing. I hope they haven't been going downhill since then. If newer HD-DVD's only look like upconverted SD DVD's that is an embarrassment :o

PS3 doesn't have analog outs. Neither does my 360 HD DVD player, but it was only $200. I'd rather buy a Standalone than a PoS3. Sony lost me with their debacle of a system.


I think the PS3 will do fine in the long run. Sure its been a mess right here at the start but I remember the 360 having a rough start also.

I think the PS3 will do fine in the long run. Sure its been a mess right here at the start but I remember the 360 having a rough start also.

Then I'll wait until the PS3 has a price drop, by then there might be a game worth playing. As of right now it is a waste of money.

I have both but the 360 games destroy the PS3 games right now. Maybe that will change down the road. I just tried Motorstorm and its got great graphics but the gameplay gets old quick. Going forward the 360 has a very strong lineup including Mass Effect which will probably sell a bunch of systems.

Mass Effect, GTA4(which was the only reason anyone bought a PS2 is no longher exclusive so...no need to play it on the PS3 either.), Forza 2(better physics and damage models than GT5), Moto GP '07 (I just love that game.), and of course...Halo 3.

Does it? Considering the PS3 is one of the more reasonably priced Blu-ray players and one of the better performing, I'm not sure it makes more sense to buy a standalone.

It does make sense when the stand alones drop in price. Lord knows that will take forever but......the PS3 as a gaming machine is looking bland. I'm not just talking about launch titles either....your future lineup also looks weak. Why spend the 600? To simply play movies? I'll just wait for the first company to bust out withthe first 200 or 300 dollar player. Till then...no blu-ray.

Originally Posted by csmith75
Does it? Considering the PS3 is one of the more reasonably priced Blu-ray players and one of the better performing, I'm not sure it makes more sense to buy a standalone.

Fantastic games (Motorstorm = amazing :D, Resistance, Tekken 5 DR, VF5, etc )and HD movies at $499, PS3 rocks :D Stand alones on both sides equal way too much $ IMO for what you get.

Fantastic games (Motorstorm = amazing :D, Resistance, Tekken 5 DR, VF5, etc )and HD movies at $499, PS3 rocks :D Stand alones on both sides equal way too much $ IMO for what you get.

Motorstorm is a dud, Tekken is played out, VF5 is coming to the 360. Resistance is currently the only semi-decent PS3 game.

Motorstorm is a dud, Tekken is played out, VF5 is coming to the 360. Resistance is currently the only semi-decent PS3 game.

Motorstorm has redefined the genre, nothing else comes close to it. Yes, VF5 is coming to the 360 (several months away) and I'm sure I will not be picking it up for mine as I already have it ;) Granted Tekken 5 DR isn't built around the PS3 hardware but for $15 its a sweet place holder. Either way I'm happy to have top two fighters this gen.

Resistance top of the class for next gen console FPS's. Of course I've taken a break from it due to being consumed by Motorstorm and some GRAW2.

It does make sense when the stand alones drop in price. Lord knows that will take forever but......the PS3 as a gaming machine is looking bland. I'm not just talking about launch titles either....your future lineup also looks weak. Why spend the 600? To simply play movies? I'll just wait for the first company to bust out withthe first 200 or 300 dollar player. Till then...no blu-ray.

People on both sides (HD DVD and Blu-ray) have paid $600 and more for machines that SIMPLY play movies. It is not unique to the PS3. Considering the fact that the PS3 has excellent backwards compatibility, has some decent current and future games and can simply play movies..$600 doesn't sound so bad. I can understand it not being in your budget or others, but for some people it's not a waste of their money.

And before anyone comes in crying about me talking about the PS3, please make sure you point the finger at ALL the people that got this started and have continued it...Thank you. :D

There is a gaming area on AVS, please take ALL game related discussion there.

Now back on topic, there does seems to be some new advertising coming from
the HD DVD camp, see the following post:

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=793733

http://www.dvdempire.com/index.asp?userid=99365463975691&tab_id=61&site_id=68&site_media_id=0

How would you interpret the week and month sales for this?You can now look at the data on DVD Empire and see that it got updated for the week of March 6th like I said it would. It now has:

HD DVD / Blu-ray
Week of February 27th: 46.40% / 53.60%
Week of March 6th: 38.11% / 61.89%
Month: 38.29% / 61.71%

There should be at least one more update before the data for the week of March 6th is final.

--Darin

They do seem to have stepped up, saw this while browsing a Windows Mobile phone forum today