I remember seeing a thread with pictues comparing two similar PJs, one 720p one 1080p. I remember noticeable differences but that the consensus was that from around 10 feet it was often hard to tell. I think the thread was around CES time. Anyone remember it or have a link to a website?

it was in the over $3K forum...

I remember seeing a thread with pictues comparing two similar PJs, one 720p one 1080p. I remember noticeable differences but that the consensus was that from around 10 feet it was often hard to tell. I think the thread was around CES time. Anyone remember it or have a link to a website?


10' feet is not accurate unless you have a specific screen size in mind, because it depends on your distance from than screen. I believe it was said that from about 1.5x the width of the screen or more the differences could not be seen most of the time. This will also depend on the material and the viewer's individual eyesight. HD video material with deep depth of field will show more small detail than film based material which uses lots of shallow focusing.

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/archive/index.php/t-767929.html
http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=799340

What a terrible posting that was :) (the referenced threads)

Looks like paying to go 1080p seems like a real waste of cash unless you want that "Front Row Experience" in your HT.

What a terrible posting that was :) (the referenced threads)

Looks like paying to go 1080p seems like a real waste of cash unless you want that "Front Row Experience" in your HT.

I went from DC2 720p to DC2+/DC3- 1080p and the difference is very noticable esp. with HD DVD source material.

If you want to watch SD DVD's and SD television then do not waste your money on a 1080p projector. If you aspire to watch crisp HD TV, HD DVD's and maybe even Blu-ray disks you should consider 1080p projectors. The world is not going back to 480 and soon may abandon 720 vertical lines.

k

I went from DC2 720p to DC2+/DC3- 1080p and the difference is very noticable esp. with HD DVD source material.


How so...most reviews are saying "less pixel structure, marginally crisper resolution that disappears as your distance to the screen increases", like I said, good for sitting closer.


If you want to watch SD DVD's and SD television then do not waste your money on a 1080p projector.


...Valuable Advice... :P


If you aspire to watch crisp HD TV, HD DVD's and maybe even Blu-ray disks you should consider 1080p projectors. The world is not going back to 480 and soon may abandon 720 vertical lines.
k

..thanks for the opinions and commentary, but that has nothing to do with my reply.

My post was: There doesn't seem to be any huge payoff in moving from 720p to 1080p, at least not right now. Law of diminishing returns coming into play here.

If you can't afford 1080p then don't buy it. It does offer benefits as the higher PQ is in the 1080p machines and manufacturers are placing much cheaper optics and electronics into 720p machines now.

I used to have an IN76, then went to an HD1000 until the cheaper 1080p DLP's hit the scene. I then went into a BenQ W9000. The W9000 is superior to anything I used to own. Power zoom, focus and lens shift. Super quiet, best of the bunch. Sharpest optics of the bunch.

The HD1000 was the poorest. Poor shadow detail and not the best optics. The IN76 was the next best. It showed 1080 material pretty well .... until I seen it on the W9000. Of course I have a 118" diagonal screen. Seating is at 15 feet and 18 feet. (1.7x width and 2x width). Even then the first row seating at 720p saw pixels in very bright scenes. The 1080p machine is super smooth and detailed. Better for me but maybe not $2200 better for some people.

k

If you can't afford 1080p then don't buy it.


Has nothing to do with Afford.....has to do with wanting more than being able to say "I have 1080p" hanging from my ceiling.

Right now I'd move to a DC3 720p before I moved to a 1080p unit, truth be told.
The bump in resolution is neither here nor there for me, but shadow detail and contrast ratio are.


It does offer benefits as the higher PQ is in the 1080p machines and manufacturers are placing much cheaper optics and electronics into 720p machines now.


Thats an assumption on your part, because Cheaper != Inferior.

Anyhow, glad you like your 1080p, I just haven't seen a convincing arguement that the bump in resolution is all that big of a deal.

Kinda like how it takes an exponentional amount of power to move a sound level up by 1Db, here also it seems that to have a truly noticible jump in visual oomph we'd have to move up from 720p to something like 4096p. 720p to 1080p, while offering more pixels, does seem a bit incremental. I'm sure we'll all go there someday, but i dont see any immediate need to abandon 720p while 1080p is still above $4 large.

I moved from the HD70 to the Sony Pearl. On a 106 inch screen and from 15 feet away, the difference between 720p and 1080p resolution is noticeable, but not enormous--it's as if a light veil has been lifted between you and the image. However, the comparison also has to include the fact that the Sony is listed at 5x the price of the HD70. Better processing and superior contrast all go to make a better image and that, rather than resolution, probably makes the biggest difference.

Having said that, it is also amazing how well a budget unit like the 70 holds up against a higher-end unit like the Sony. I think the smart thing to do it to wait until the bulb burns out on your 720p unit and then upgrade to 1080p. I bet the prices will be under 2K two years from now.

Best,

Brian

What a terrible posting that was :) (the referenced threads)

Looks like paying to go 1080p seems like a real waste of cash unless you want that "Front Row Experience" in your HT.

HR, There is one other area: Image size. Provided, of course, there are the lumens to drive a BIG image. Like you, I can wait...for...awhile.

There's a reason why there are no 720p projectors with 15,000:1 contrast like the Pearl or RS-1 (natively in this case) and it's because they'd steal many sales from the 1080p units. The 1080p units main advantage isn't resolution it's contrast and black level usually. Let's see how many 1080p RS-1s and Pearls they sell if they released a 720p version of each model at a much lower price.

Let's see how many 1080p RS-1s and Pearls they sell if they released a 720p version of each model at a much lower price.

I doubt we will see 720p RS-1 and Pearl versions.

By the way, 1080p DLP is well under $4k (USA) ... in fact very close to $3k from authorized dealers now (Canadian). This summer you will see even more fixed offset 1080p DLP devices without power zoom and focus that may street for $2500 USD. MSRP may still be something like $3999 to $4999.

Patience is key. I HAD to replace the HD1000 sooner than I wanted to since it was purchased by a neighbor.

k

I doubt we will see 720p RS-1 and Pearl versions.

By the way, 1080p DLP is well under $4k (USA) ... in fact very close to $3k from authorized dealers now (Canadian). This summer you will see even more fixed offset 1080p DLP devices without power zoom and focus that may street for $2500 USD. MSRP may still be something like $3999 to $4999.

Patience is key. I HAD to replace the HD1000 sooner than I wanted to since it was purchased by a neighbor.

k

Why did you replace your HD1000?

Why did you replace your HD1000?

I had an IN76. I posted on the forum one day that I would sell it in the future for an upgrade to 1080p. One forum user asked me 1 month later if I would sell it at the time (Jan. 2007). I offered up a price of $1300 and he bought it. I replaced the IN76 with an HD1000 to hold me over until a cheaper 1080p DLP was in the market. My neighbor had seen the IN76 and was wondering what I was using since I sold the IN76. I told him a stop gap 720p projector (HD1000) until I found a reasonable 1080p DLP. He offered to buy the HD1000 2 weeks ago if I helped him redo his rec. room into a theater area. He wanted it pretty fast once he got his cables and painting done. So there I was now without a PJ for the 2nd time. I bit the bullet and got a BenQ W9000. Still not ready to spend $6500 USD on a Sharp XV-Z20000.

I am not even going to breath a word about selling the W9000 for 12 months ...

The W9000 is my 3rd PJ in 11 months.

The W9000 is 8/10 compared to the IN76 I rate 7/10 and the HD1000 I rate 5/10.


IN76 shot ................. HD1000 shot (click to enlarge)
http://img178.imageshack.us/img178/9158/nemome0.th.jpg (http://img178.imageshack.us/my.php?image=nemome0.jpg) http://img401.imageshack.us/img401/69/nemotanksmallpw8.th.jpg (http://img401.imageshack.us/my.php?image=nemotanksmallpw8.jpg)

Sorry no W9000 screen shots yet.

Wet1 posted these screen shots in this thread: Scroll to post #1398 http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=755277&page=47&pp=30

Has nothing to do with Afford.....has to do with wanting more than being able to say "I have 1080p" hanging from my ceiling.
<snip>
Right now I'd move to a DC3 720p before I moved to a 1080p unit, truth be told.
The bump in resolution is neither here nor there for me, but shadow detail and contrast ratio are.
.

:confused:

There is a while lot more a 1080p projector can give you than more resolution.

It's simple math I suppose ... the more pixels you have available, the more pixel variations in colors you have available, which means better color saturation.

The same can be said for black levels/shadow detail.

We did a 1080p shootout last week (Mitsu, Epson, Panny and Optoma) ... you aren't going to convince me that a 720p DC3 projector can put up the performance we saw that day.

Now, all that said, it seems like the basis for your argument is the VALUE factor, which is fine, just wanted to clarify that what may not be value to you - could be value to someone else. The last thing we want to do is skew a purchasing decision for some-one's home theater on misinformation (ie. that a "bump" in resolution is all you get with 1080p).


*EDIT - as with my post in the 4:3 thread ... I am not saying anything non-1080 is crap. I LOVE my 720p projector ... but it's not going to hold up to even the worst 1080 I saw.