I found an interesting article (http://www.oreillynet.com/mac/blog/2007/03/my_high_def_life_exporting_to.html?CMP=OTC-13IV03560550&ATT=My+High+Def+Life+Exporting+to+AppleTV) about using the new Quicktime to make films compatible with AppleTV (there is a new "export to AppleTV" option in QT). The article includes downloadable samples (screen grabs) of the output. See what you think.

It's interesting that she says the resulting H.264 video maintains the 29.97 frames per second rate, as the original 1080i content had.

The marketing material for the AppleTV stated 720p @ 24fps (i.e. film sourced). 24fps seems like a huge limitation to me, so hopefully she is right. It would be interesting to see what it does with 720p 59.97fps material. Full 720p60 would be nice.

--Edit

Oops, I skipped over the frame size.. 960x540?!? What the heck is that?

I wonder if it's related to the limits of the GPU & the 1280x720@24fps they quote. Or, is it an artificial limit for some other reason, like how Sony limits the video resolution you can use for self created stuff on the PSP, but their own UMD disks support higher resolution. I'm sure Apple is smarter than that.. hopefully there is some other way to do full resolution video.

Yes, I thought some of it was strange too. The interesting point, of course, is that both ATV and QT come from Apple and you would expect that the engineers talk to each other. So, if QT outputs in some weird format, you would expect that ATV could play it back, regardless of what it says on Apple's website. It will be interesting once ATV comes out and the first tests are made with it.

you would expect that the engineers talk to each other.

you'll be happier if you modify your expectations...

My tests with 1080i content indicate that it gets scaled to 960x540/29.97. With 720p/60, it gets scaled to 960x540/30. In both cases the bit rate is a around 4100 kbits/sec. With 720p/23.97, it gets converted to 1280x720/23.97 and the bit rate is around 5500 kbits/sec.

These are really short clips so your mileage may vary...

Dennis

This led me (at least) to some confusion.
http://www.ipodobserver.com/story/30683

This neatgear seems to be a somewhat different device than AppleTV in several ways.
But I cannot tell if the Neatgear can be used within th Mac OS. Since it uses g and not n (yet) I wonder how useful for the stated purpose. Any ideas, given the obvious claim to provide 1080i

This led me (at least) to some confusion.
http://www.ipodobserver.com/story/30683

This neatgear seems to be a somewhat different device than AppleTV in several ways.
But I cannot tell if the Neatgear can be used within th Mac OS. Since it uses g and not n (yet) I wonder how useful for the stated purpose. Any ideas, given the obvious claim to provide 1080i

The Netgear site reads Windows XP required.

The Netgear site reads Windows XP required.

You are quite correct, however, it seems to me there are quite a few companies that do things like this or worse (Linksys, for example) -- say that Windows XYZ is required, but is, in reality, compatible with Mac and Linux -- possibly for "marketing" reasons. From the link posted by lpfactor, it looks like the company is quite aware that the device works on Macs and talks about improving features on both platforms.

It should also be noted that this product is $100 more than ATV, lacks high-speed (n) Wifi and has no hard-drive. OTOH, it does play many of the file formats that ATV will allegedly not play.

When Apple announced the ATV and said the USB port was only for "service and diagnostics", was I only one who thought: ah, now the hackers know where to start?!

The Netgear site reads Windows XP required.

I was looking more closely at the Netgear site, and here's what I think I've figured out. Windows XP is the only thing supported, but it looks like you can get all the pieces to make it work with a Mac.

First, the Netgear will work with any UPnP server. If you google for os x upnp you'll find one of those for around $30 (although it might just do music and maybe photos). For videos, it looks like the Netgear will mount a SMB share, so you could use filesharing for something like that.

The Netgear also appears to support formats the AppleTV does not (including MP4 with AC3 audio).

For those who want to use a Netgear, D-Link, Buffalo LinkPlayer, etc. UPnPAV device, Elgato still makes and intends to support the EyeConnect software that will let you play movies to one of these devices.

I have one such device, but find that it doesn't play h.264, but will do 1080p mp4. It uses 802.11g, and if I have any other traffic on the network, the video breaks up.

One of the problems with the device I have is that it is incredibly slow fetching menus, so you press a button, wait, and then it comes back to display the next page. This may not be a problem for all devices.

Suffice to say, I'm looking forward to trying ?tv and seeing what a difference I get - at least there, the menu feedback will be fast, and it will play h.264.

I've been converting all my content to mp4 and h.264.

My tests with 1080i content indicate that it gets scaled to 960x540/29.97. With 720p/60, it gets scaled to 960x540/30. In both cases the bit rate is a around 4100 kbits/sec. With 720p/23.97, it gets converted to 1280x720/23.97 and the bit rate is around 5500 kbits/sec.


My experiences were different depending on where I got the source material.

When I started with MPEG2 files captured via OTA HD and converted from TS with MPEGStreamclip the 1080i clips came out as 1280x720, 24fps.

When I started with Apple's 1080 trailers I also saw the 540p size.

I also tried VisualHub, which was much much faster than QT, but who knows if they will actually play. VisualHUB doesn't support AppleTV yet so you have to look for the hidden radio button (http://www.engadgethd.com/2007/03/13/getting-ready-for-apple-tv/) in the latest build.

The other interesting thing I noticed about converting HD Apple Trailers is that the clips included 5.1 AAC audio, but when converted with either QT or VH, the result is AAC 2.0. This is expected, but still very disappointing. I am hoping that this is limitation of the software and not of the Apple TV, but I know I am probably just deluding myself.

When I started with MPEG2 files captured via OTA HD and converted from TS with MPEGStreamclip the 1080i clips came out as 1280x720, 24fps.

Yes, but different networks broadcast with different formats so we don't know if you started with 1080i or 720p source video. ABC and Fox do 720p while the rest do 1080i. My 720p content from ABC was saved as 720p/24 only when I set that frame rate in MPEG Streamclip. My 1080i clip was also exported as 1080i and ended up at the smaller size. I hope that El Gato adds settings in EyeTV to smartly export as the highest possible quality, e.g. 720p/24, regardless of the source material.

Dennis

Sorry if I wasn't clear, the 1080i clips from CBS and NBC turned out to be 1280x720.
The 720p clips from ABC also resulted in 1280x720.

I am sure EyeTV will support the AppleTV profiles.

Overall I think the AppleTV will work well for HD considering the sources. Sure it won't look as good as HD DVD or Blu-ray, but nothing can without the large file sizes.

The real concern is the lack of multi-channel audio. I can't imagine watching any show or movie without 5.1.

The point of my post was that some have reported that when they started with 1080, they ended up with 540. While I did experience this when using Apple HD Trailers, it wasn't always the case.

One area of interest to me with the AppleTV is using it for whole-house audio.
I've been looking hard at the Sonos system, but since my collection is all iTunes (no WMV, etc), the AppleTV hardware looks like a better deal.

ATV is $299, and it also does video. Sonos ZP80 (no amp) is $349, does not do video, and does not support ITMS DRM.

The only advantage I see for Sonos is the very cool remote control. It has a visual interface, and allows you to control any of your zones from one spot. The ATV only has the simple little remote, and you need to be in front of your TV to do any tune selecting.

Now, if Apple were to be able to integrate a video iPod or iPhone so that it could be a controller for the ATV, that would be awesome. A video iPod would still be less than the Sonos controller ($399).

Thoughts anyone?

bk

Thoughts anyone?

Keep in mind that a single ZP80 is no help to you, gotta be a pair minimum.

But, bk, this probably isn't the thread to inject yet another Sonos comparison. Even before aTV was announced, you could come very close to seamless audiophile whole house audio with built-in iTunes sharing, Macs and multiple Airport Express units. That Sonos controller IS the nicest thing about the Sonos bundle. We've had a bunch of threads about remote controller alternatives for iTunes--and yes, many of us here can't wait for what we've felt is inevitable: the first non-iPhone touchpad iPod with Wi-fi and BT which can be used as a handheld home network controller. Of course, its real value will be for those with a Mac connected to their HDTV not an aTV, but that's another issue.

This thread has some good info, bk:

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=803977

(edit--added link)

We've had a bunch of threads about remote controller alternatives for iTunes--and yes, many of us here can't wait for what we've felt is inevitable: the first non-iPhone touchpad iPod with Wi-fi and BT which can be used as a handheld home network controller. Of course, its real value will be for those with a Mac connected to their HDTV not an aTV, but that's another issue.Well, this is the "AppleTV -- what to expect" thread. While I think our desires for the appleTV may outweigh our expectations, I have been thinking about this iPod controller/remote issue.

We've been discussing elsewhere how the Mini makes a much better htpc solution if you need to go outside of the appleTV sphere of possibilities. What I've been wondering, is can the appleTV act as a conduit for keyboard or remote controller commands to the computer in the den, and in turn act as the display? While it may be a little far fetched, it really isn't technically unfeasible. The appleTV as a remote/wireless terminal, with HDTV as display, and wireless keyboard or iPod remote controller as input. All of the power/expandability/software of your MacPro that's in the den hooked up to your HDTV via the appleTV.

The appleTV as a wireless thin client. Takers, anyone???

Keep in mind that a single ZP80 is no help to you, gotta be a pair minimum.



As a matter of fact, IF you have an ethernet wired network that you can use to connect the Sonos unit to your music location, you DON'T need two Sonos units, only one.

Still, that makes it $750 for one Sonos plus one controller, vs. $300 for one AppleTV, or $1,000 for 2 Sonos (model 80) units and one controller vs. 3 pple TV's and change for HDMI/Component and Optical audio cables.

We've been discussing elsewhere how the Mini makes a much better htpc solution if you need to go outside of the appleTV sphere of possibilities. What I've been wondering, is can the appleTV act as a conduit for keyboard or remote controller commands to the computer in the den, and in turn act as the display? While it may be a little far fetched, it really isn't technically unfeasible. The appleTV as a remote/wireless terminal, with HDTV as display, and wireless keyboard or iPod remote controller as input. All of the power/expandability/software of your MacPro that's in the den hooked up to your HDTV via the appleTV.

The appleTV as a wireless thin client. Takers, anyone???


I also wouldn't be at all suprised to see the iPod gaming capabilities come to AppleTV. But, most of those games use the click wheel to some degree, so that means there must be a clickwheel-type remote device somewhere on the horizon... ?

I am alittle confused as to how Apple TV actually works (in regards to the files on iTunes). If you have a bunch of stuff on a computer (in my case a Cube with an external drive, where my iTunes stuff is at), will aTV copy all of that stuff onto its internal 40GB drive or stream it to be viewed on my TV? IT doesn't seem to make sense for aTV to copy basically my catalog to its internal HD....

BTW, my cube would be connected to an Apple Extreme via Ethernet.

Can anyone explain this to me, sorry if it seems like a noob question.

Rippey

I am alittle confused as to how Apple TV actually works (in regards to the files on iTunes). If you have a bunch of stuff on a computer (in my case a Cube with an external drive, where my iTunes stuff is at), will aTV copy all of that stuff onto its internal 40GB drive or stream it to be viewed on my TV? IT doesn't seem to make sense for aTV to copy basically my catalog to its internal HD....

BTW, my cube would be connected to an Apple Extreme via Ethernet.

Can anyone explain this to me, sorry if it seems like a noob question.

Rippey

According to the available descriptions, you can decide whether or not to sync the material from your computer with the ATV. Since ATV is basically a wireless transmitter it will stream from your computer to whatever output (audio or video) device is connected to the ATV. Thus your iTunes files on your computer will not be copied (synchronized ) unless you decide to do so. At least that appears to be the case from early descriptions.

Apple TV has two mechanisms for viewing video from your iTunes computer. You can choose one iTunes computer to sync data from (this behaves basically like an iPod) but will automatically update data as new videos are added/removed from iTunes as well as when playcounts are updated (so that new shows can be synced over).

You can also choose up to five additional computers to stream from. In this case you will be able to browse the entire iTunes library and stream any music or video on that computer that is authorized by that computer (without burning an additional authorization).

In addition to choosing to sync from a particular computer, you can choose at anytime pick it as a streaming source and browse through the entire library.

One main advantage of syncing vs. streaming is for people who have networks that don't handle streaming very well (i.e. old wireless like 'b' or networks with lots of traffic).

Does that help?

Kevin

lpfactor and imlucid,

Thanks alot for your reply. Yup, exactly what I wanted to know.

Rippey

The other benefit is if you don't have your laptop on, or you like to turn off your desktop when you're not using it you can still enjoy your media on your HT.

My problem which I will find out in a few days is if like an iPod you can sync your Photos from one Mac and your Music from another. Still only syncing each thing with one Mac, but for those like me who store their music on another mac than their photos it would work out.

Ben,

You can only sync content from one iTunes source. You'll have to stream your music from the other machine.

Kevin

You can only sync content from one iTunes source. You'll have to stream your music from the other machine.


That's good cause I only one to sync to one iTunes source. But I also want to sync from one iPhoto source, which happens to be on another computer. I do this now with my iPod and it works fine, I hope the same is true for the Apple TV.

The other benefit is if you don't have your laptop on, or you like to turn off your desktop when you're not using it you can still enjoy your media on your HT.

In my case, I am going to have my Cube (soon to be Mac Mini) be my file server where all of my media will reside. All of my music, photos and eventual movies will be on the Mini with two firewire drives (about 700GB). This way, I can burn my favorite CD's, have all my music and movies in one place and since it will run OS X server, it will be on all the time anyway.

Just ordered ATV and I will pick up Apple Extreme tomorrow. Hope to have the whole set up complete sometime late next week. (Olevia 342i LCD, JVC 411s 7.1 receiver, Nanosat or OrbAudio speakers and a sub)

Rippey

Walt Mossberg's review is up. (http://ptech.wsj.com/solution.html)

Thanks, Ted. Very interesting review.

Walt Mossberg's review is up. (http://ptech.wsj.com/solution.html)No surprises there. Walt's 10-day preview let the WSJ scoop others, but he could have written that by reading our threads here (maybe he does :rolleyes: ).

But I find this statement particularly frustrating:

"and video and audio quality were quite good for anyone but picky audiophiles and videophiles."

I just hate it when anyone says we are "picky" when all we want are the same things we get from a $50 dvd player--like 5.1 audio. Or something better than "near DVD quality," like just DVD quality. As if it's picky to want iTS content and the Apple system to at least mimic the current standards that billions of people use.

The one thing I didn't expect to hear was that photo streamcasting isn't supported in this version. Though, as expected, Walt praises the iLife capablilities, and many will purchase it just for this feature--the rebirth of the family slideshow and home movies, ala iLife and the HDTV display instead of the silver screen, Kodak Carousel, and the Super-8 (or, gasp, 16mm) we all so loved as kids (some of us anyways). I for one have a huge photo library on my server. Far larger than the 40GB on the appleTV.

Then again, I'm definitely in the minority, as I managed a network for ten years that had several high end scanners that dozens of pro photographers and organizations used for prepress work before it was affordable to set up your own scanning studio, or move to digital. And I set up a nice archive system for everyone, a nice copy of which I still maintain at home. And when those photogs come to visit, it would be cool to be able to stream their slides and enjoy them. But no... no... no appleTV for me... yet.

Walt Mossberg's review is up. (http://ptech.wsj.com/solution.html)There's also a video of the "Walt and Katie" show where Walt Mossberg and Katie talk about the appleTV (http://link.brightcove.com/services/player/bcpid452319854?bctid=685982226). Highlight? Katie says: "you need a new 'wide-angle' television" to use the appleTV. :confused:

I just watched the video its pretty worthless.

What software tools are you all using to convert your videos into MP4 or other AppleTV compatible formats?

Handbrake, iSquint, Mactheripper, etc...??

Is there any software that will retain the 5.1 surround sound?

Thanks.

Is there any software that will retain the 5.1 surround sound?

Handbrake will retain the 5.1 sound, but you need to use an AVI wrapper and therefore will not be compatible with the Apple TV. There are ways to convert a DVD to a video file with 6 distinct AAC audio tracks (or so I've been told), but it's not a simple process and requires multiple apps and much editing. There's also debate as to whether a file assembled as such will be play on the Apple TV. From what I've read, the Apple TV will not take AAC streams and re-encode to DD or DTS for output over optical, nor will it output 5.1 AAC streams over the HDMI cable.

Handbrake will retain the 5.1 sound, but you need to use an AVI wrapper and therefore will not be compatible with the Apple TV. There are ways to convert a DVD to a video file with 6 distinct AAC audio tracks (or so I've been told), but it's not a simple process and requires multiple apps and much editing. There's also debate as to whether a file assembled as such will be play on the Apple TV. From what I've read, the Apple TV will not take AAC streams and re-encode to DD or DTS for output over optical, nor will it output 5.1 AAC streams over the HDMI cable.

That's too bad. I guess we'll just have to hold out for Apple or some third party developer to make some headway with the lack of Dolby Digital 5.1.

Thanks for the info.

This is really disappointing on the frame rate, resolution front:

Video:
- .264 and protected H.264 (from iTunes Store): Up to 5 Mbps. Maximum resolution: 1280 by 720 pixels at 24 fps, 960 by 540 pixels at 30 fps
- MPEG-4: Up to 3 Mbps. Maximum resolution: 720 by 432 pixels at 30 fps

Also the audio is listed as a max bit rate of 160kb/s in a video file. I'm willing to accept some compromises on a easy to use piece of Apple equipment, but this is well under my requirements and expectations, and my expectations are well under many people here.

I don't think this is exactly news, but was posted by MacRumors as "additional info".

This is really disappointing on the frame rate, resolution front:

Video:
- .264 and protected H.264 (from iTunes Store): Up to 5 Mbps. Maximum resolution: 1280 by 720 pixels at 24 fps, 960 by 540 pixels at 30 fps
- MPEG-4: Up to 3 Mbps. Maximum resolution: 720 by 432 pixels at 30 fps

I don't think this is exactly news, but was posted by MacRumors as "additional info".


I thought the information previously posted suggested that there were only a few specific resolutions supported (1280x720@24hz, 640x480ITMS, 320x240ITMS).

The new description opens the door to the ability to compose .264 at 720x480(NTSC) DVD quality which a lot of people wanted. That doesn't give us 5.1 sound, but it's closer.

Of course, I could be reading more into it that is really there.

I thought the information previously posted suggested that there were only a few specific resolutions supported (1280x720@24hz, 640x480ITMS, 320x240ITMS).
No, the resolutions stated are maximum, not absolute.

David Pogue's article is now up. (http://www.nytimes.com/2007/03/22/technology/22pogue.html)

David Pogue's article is now up. (http://www.nytimes.com/2007/03/22/technology/22pogue.html)

Hm, the best summarized argument FOR Apple TV so far, IMO. For me, content is the problem (I want my DVD rips (Video_ts,) my lossless CD rips, my Netflix stream (yeah, I know....) But I am starting to think that for some others, it may work.

Now, it just dawned on me, that if this thing gets a wider audience, it WILL invariably get hacked, to do many of the same things I wish it did. And I bet you, that if it does, those little boxes will fly off the shelf. I sure would get one:-)

Well I think with the new Quicktime Pro, you can "export" your DVD's to AppleTV so isn't that essentially a DVD rip? That is what I intend on doing with my favorite DVD's anyhow.

Rippey

Well I think with the new Quicktime Pro, you can "export" your DVD's to AppleTV so isn't that essentially a DVD rip? That is what I intend on doing with my favorite DVD's anyhow.
Uh, no. QT Pro won't break DVD encryption and there isn't any MPEG2 support without purchasing the mpeg2 plugin.

Uh, no. QT Pro won't break DVD encryption and there isn't any MPEG2 support without purchasing the mpeg2 plugin.

And even then I don't get sound when playing the VOB's. Bought the mpeg-2 plugin by mistake, never found a good use for it.

Bought the mpeg-2 plugin by mistake, never found a good use for it.
I used it for transcoding my ReplayTV files for a while...

Aw man, that sucks. I clearly misunderstood something. I was not trying to have a DVD in my bedroom and clearly I am not going to try to buy my DVD's again. Well I am sure there are programs that rip DVD's, and convert them to Quicktime and then add to iTunes. This kinda sucks. Not that I am going to return it but that is a real bummer.

Rippey

Uh, no. QT Pro won't break DVD encryption and there isn't any MPEG2 support without purchasing the mpeg2 plugin.

Just a bit of looking around, I found this....

http://www.soft29.com/dvd_to_apple_tv_converter_for_mac.html

There are more of these types of programs available and are not illegal (it does not seem). This software got a good review. Basically a DVD to Apple TV converter.

Rippey

David Pogue's article is now up. (http://www.nytimes.com/2007/03/22/technology/22pogue.html)
Did I read the part about the Netgear being able to stream DRM protected iTS media (Fairplay AAC's) correctly? And why only on Windows?

Maybe Pogue has it wrong. Netgear's documentation don't mention supporting iTS media.

Hmmmm.

ft

Just a bit of looking around, I found this....

http://www.soft29.com/dvd_to_apple_tv_converter_for_mac.html

There are more of these types of programs available and are not illegal (it does not seem). This software got a good review. Basically a DVD to Apple TV converter.

Rippey

A fool and his money are soon parted. Save your cash and download Handbrake or MPEG Streamclip. I imagine that's what the folks who publish that bit of software have done.

A fool and his money are soon parted. Save your cash and download Handbrake or MPEG Streamclip. I imagine that's what the folks who publish that bit of software have done.

:p Actually, I just wanted to make sure that I can have my DVD's I bought ripped and streamed to my AppleTV. Since I do not want a DVD player in my room, I assumed that QT Pro allowed for this ripping. I see that it doesnt but it seems that they are many (freeware, shareware and shrinkwrap) that can do what I want, so I actually feel a bit better now :)

Thanks for the tip

Rippey

handbrake works well for this; easy interface...
ken

Got mine. Ha. Sorry, just wanted to be first. :D

I have used VisualHUB and Quicktime Export, but obviously I havne't tested them yet.
VisualHUB isn't free, but uses ffmpeg under the hood. If you don't need the GUI you can run ffmpeg from the terminal.

Im a little confused on what this device can do, so please forgive my elementary questions but can the apple tv:

1 Play my DVDs that Ive ripped using the video_ts structure that is on a network drive
2 Play my .ts DTV/HDTV files (ABC,CBS,NBC and PBS from 720p to 1080i)
3 Play my SD recorded material saved as dvr-ms (im thinking this is a long shot since its a microsoft format)

All of the above without the need for me to transcode anything?

I understand it does not support the DviX/XviD codec for whatever reasons but wanted to know if it could do the other 3 things.

Man I hope they update this appletv for 5.1 because I won't buy it without it.
Is it me or does 160 Kbps seem a little low?

PC Magazine has an in-depth review (http://www.pcmag.com/article2/0,1895,2104966,00.asp) posted today. It is straightforward and has some interesting takes on the appleTV, and some comparisons with xbox. Best review I've read so far. No fanboyism. Realistic.

Here's an interesting bonus they discovered:

"We have a shared iTunes library here in the labs, which our host Mac Book was connected to. Not only did Apple TV download all the content from the MacBook's pretty small test suite we created—it started to download all of the files in our shared folder! Obviously, any unauthorized iTunes content wouldn't be able to play, but various unprotected files could, and we were on our way to inadvertently almost filling the 40GB hard drive! Why is this cool? Think about it: instead of streaming your buddy's content when he comes over with his laptop, you can simply put him on your shared network and his content will automatically sync to your hard drive (and stay there after he leaves), while Apple TV retains the ability to stream from five other computers…let the music swap parties begin!"

Now if someone can just figure out how to move content from the appleTV back to the Mac, you have the perfect "welcome to the social" setting [your music will be assimilated--DRM is irrelevant]! Actually, it's pretty social without being able to grab the content back. Sorry, zune-squirters, move on over. The real wifi sharing has begun. Just wait till the iPhone can plug into this environment, and share a mobile library.

Im a little confused on what this device can do, so please forgive my elementary questions but can the apple tv:

1 Play my DVDs that Ive ripped using the video_ts structure that is on a network drive
2 Play my .ts DTV/HDTV files (ABC,CBS,NBC and PBS from 720p to 1080i)
3 Play my SD recorded material saved as dvr-ms (im thinking this is a long shot since its a microsoft format)

1. No.
2. No.
3. No.

Everything that is not mpeg-4 and h.264 must be transcoded. Some stuff that is mpeg4 and h.264 must be re-encoded.

Andrew67: Thanks for the response. I assume then this device is not ment for those with a media library/system in place.

Again thanks for the response.

This review from iLounge (http://www.ilounge.com/index.php/articles/comments/top-ten-reasons-you-dont-need-apple-tv-yet/) is a nice synthesis of a lot of criticism we've raised here about the appleTV. Here's the reader's digest version (all of these points are filled out in the article):

Horwitz's Top Ten Reasons You Don’t Need Apple TV (Yet):
(10) You have a fifth-generation iPod with video and a $20 bill in your pocket
(9) You don’t have a high-definition TV, or don’t use one as your primary set
(8) You have a large movie collection that isn’t in one of Apple TV’s two supported formats
(7) The iTunes Store doesn’t sell movies or TV shows in your country, or there’s nothing you want to buy
(6) You want to protest Apple’s pricing and bundling policies
(5) Apple TV doesn’t have a DVR - or you already have one
(4) It doesn’t have a DVD or other hi-def disc player
(3) You’re budgeting for another Apple purchase, like a Mac mini
(2) You want to hold out for a version with higher resolution or more hard disk space
(1) You want to wait until the reality distortion field dies down"

It's a good thing I didn't buy this thing for HD.
I only had the hour I get for lunch to play, but here our my impressions.

The 720p material I encoded with Quicktime, looked very over-compressed.
I had samples 720p and 1080p samples from Apple's trailer site as well as a few clips I converted from ATSC.

All of them looked over-compressed. In fact I preferred to watch the 480p content I had, while the res wasn't as high, the lack of compression artifacts made it more enjoyable.

That being said, all the reasons I bought it are really great!
The screen saver is awesome, as is the UI for controlling photos, music and trailers.
Setup couldn't be easier, I was even impressed by the WPA key input UI.

I can't wait to do more tests, I have a feeling if we force encode to 540p 24fps, and max out the frame rate, we may get better PQ. I am sure someone will figure out the optimal encoder settings.

I'll have a full review on Engadget as soon as I can.

Im a little confused on what this device can do, so please forgive my elementary questions but can the apple tv:

1 Play my DVDs that Ive ripped using the video_ts structure that is on a network drive
2 Play my .ts DTV/HDTV files (ABC,CBS,NBC and PBS from 720p to 1080i)
3 Play my SD recorded material saved as dvr-ms (im thinking this is a long shot since its a microsoft format)

All of the above without the need for me to transcode anything?

I understand it does not support the DviX/XviD codec for whatever reasons but wanted to know if it could do the other 3 things.

Well just use Divx Doctor to convert those divx and avis into mpgs that DO play in iTunes.

It's a good thing I didn't buy this thing for HD.
I only had the hour I get for lunch to play, but here our my impressions.

The 720p material I encoded with Quicktime, looked very over-compressed.
I had samples 720p and 1080p samples from Apple's trailer site as well as a few clips I converted from ATSC.

All of them looked over-compressed. In fact I preferred to watch the 480p content I had, while the res wasn't as high, the lack of compression artifacts made it more enjoyable.

That being said, all the reasons I bought it are really great!
The screen saver is awesome, as is the UI for controlling photos, music and trailers.
Setup couldn't be easier, I was even impressed by the WPA key input UI.

I can't wait to do more tests, I have a feeling if we force encode to 540p 24fps, and max out the frame rate, we may get better PQ. I am sure someone will figure out the optimal encoder settings.

I'll have a full review on Engadget as soon as I can.

Have you tried Divx Doctor instead of QT? Take an avi (most HD rips are) and convert it to mpg with DD and see how that plays? That's what I intended to do, but if it is really compressed I may hold off. I had planned to also get EyeGato to record HD and then convert and play thru iTunes so I'd have a PVR essentially. However, not many reports on quality of video before yours.

This review from iLounge (http://www.ilounge.com/index.php/articles/comments/top-ten-reasons-you-dont-need-apple-tv-yet/) is a nice synthesis of a lot of criticism we've raised here about the appleTV. Here's the reader's digest version (all of these points are filled out in the article):

Horwitz's Top Ten Reasons You Don’t Need Apple TV (Yet):
(10) You have a fifth-generation iPod with video and a $20 bill in your pocket
(9) You don’t have a high-definition TV, or don’t use one as your primary set
(8) You have a large movie collection that isn’t in one of Apple TV’s two supported formats
(7) The iTunes Store doesn’t sell movies or TV shows in your country, or there’s nothing you want to buy
(6) You want to protest Apple’s pricing and bundling policies
(5) Apple TV doesn’t have a DVR - or you already have one
(4) It doesn’t have a DVD or other hi-def disc player
(3) You’re budgeting for another Apple purchase, like a Mac mini
(2) You want to hold out for a version with higher resolution or more hard disk space
(1) You want to wait until the reality distortion field dies down"

Well, some of those are like saying you shouldn't buy a HD DVD player if you have an upconverting DVD player.

10) I don't have a video iPod
9) I do have 3 HDTVs
8) I have no real movie collection but a few minutes in Divx Doctor is just a few minutes to covert 1 hour HD
7) live in the US
6) I have no problems with Apple pricing
5)I don't need ATV to have a DRV, I can use my main computer from that. The ATV is a bridge, nothing more
4)That would be cool, but it only needs support to play a digital or downloaded format not a physical drive
3) Mini does too much, don't want a computer in my livingroom
2)Don't need the HD, I plan on adding storage to my MAIN computer, the ATV is a bridge. Higher rex, 1080i at least would be nicer of course
1) that's getting old.

So according to that top 10 reasons to BUY an ATV, I think I might.

At 5Mb/s I don't see how it can ever look that good.
We will see.
I will try Divx doctor when I get a chance, or if you want to encode some clips and let me download them, it will happen faster.

David Pogue's article is now up. (http://www.nytimes.com/2007/03/22/technology/22pogue.html)

He's mistaken when he says Netgear EVA8000 works on macs, unless he knows something NetGear doesn't.

Pogue said:

Its new EVA8000 box plays back many more video formats, including high-def video; can play the contents of any folders on your Mac or PC, not just what’s in iTunes

Which I assume means it can stream from any smb shared directory...

At 5Mb/s I don't see how it can ever look that good.
We will see.
I will try Divx doctor when I get a chance, or if you want to encode some clips and let me download them, it will happen faster.

I think the smallest HD show I have is 350mg. I do have a Gwen Stefani supposed HD video at 126mg. Would take forever to upload over cable.

(seems iTunes uses .mov also, not only mpg)

AppleTV User Guide (http://manuals.info.apple.com/en/AppleTV_UserGuide.pdf) from Apple (pdf)

You can also download HD trailers from apple.com...

Pogue said:



Which I assume means it can stream from any smb shared directory...

I emailed him about it, and he said he had it set up in his office with a mac. Said a Netgear guy hooked it up. So, no idea why NetGear doesn't proclaim mac support??

They had one mention of Mac support on their product sheet when mentioning SMB networking. But it was hard to track down.

Well just use Divx Doctor to convert those divx and avis into mpgs that DO play in iTunes.

Thanks for the advise Kid Red, unfortunately this is something I do not want to do just so 1 device on my network can play the files while the other devices (all mce2005) can play them without any type of transcoding.

I dont feel this is just an apple thing, I have tried a bunch of network players and they all have their shortcomings with file support.

joeyjoeyjoey- NP, just wanted to make sure people knew of that option as well as the QT one.