Hello; I’m new to this fantastic site and I have a few questions regarding OTA Antennas. Although the answers to my questions may have already been answered I could not (as of yet) find any similar questions or answers on this web site.

First, a little background information; I live in a one story home in Arlington Heights, Illinois 60004. “Antennaweb” lists the channels as approximately 23.4 miles and 23.1 miles at 132 degrees and 128 degrees respectively. The majority of the channels emanate from the sears tower (132 degrees), although CBS, WGN, FOX and a few others reside at the 128 degree angle (Hancock Tower). I am currently using a “Radio Shack” VU-120XR antenna installed in the attic, I receive most of the digital stations at or above 60% signal strength (some as good as 99%) although CBS is at about 50% (Fox and WGN come in at appox. 85%), no multi-path problems currently exist anywhere among the channels I receive. I used “Belden” Quad Shield RG6 exclusively for distribution of all signals from the attic to my distribution point (running approx 35 ft.) to the basement. I split the cable to feed the HDTV (basement location) and to my living room 2 channel stereo system (for F.M.) (yes there still is 2 channel audio). Simply put, I would like to get better reception for the HDTV. Here’s the clincher I want to keep the antenna(s) inside the attic.

My questions are in regards to antennas. Firstly; I’m I better off using two antennas and combine the UHF and VHF signals via a UHF/VHF combiner? My thoughts would be to use the Channel Master 4228 for the UHF and a “Winegard” or “Channel Master” UHF/VHF/FM model(s) for the VHF and FM. Although these are large models I believe (after reading many posts here) that the increase in sensitivity is important since I am installing the antennas in an attic. In regards to the first question, what are the inherent problems that occur when different antennas are used? Is it better to use a single all purpose high quality UHF/VHF/FM antenna i.e. “Winegard” HD7082P, “Channel Master” CM3679 (these models will fit within my attic space) than to combine the signals via two different antennas? My overall thinking is that either way using a much higher quality antenna can only help with overall reception. Thank you all in advance for your time and knowledge.

I like your idea of using the hd7082p combo in place of the rs you currently own. the hd7082p will also outperform the cm3079. the hd7082p is a well balanced performer in all tv bands, tames multipath well, does a good job on fm, and is my favorite.

for example
average gain in dbd
cm3079 122"
vhf lo 4.0
vhf hi 8.1
uhf 9.5

hd7082p 110.5"...10" shorter
*vhf lo 6.3
vhf hi 10.5
uhf 12.0

You can add a winegard hdp269 preamp if necessary to give the signal a little boost around the home, offset the losses in splitting, has a very high overload tolerance, and will not overload your setup.

You can also think about just adding the hdp269 to your current setup to see if the signal improves to your liking. You would use the amp if you decide to upgrade the antenna.

the cm7777 would have too much gain for your application and conditions.

Combining separate vhf/fm and uhf antennas is the best of both worlds but I do not think you will need a separate uhf antenna if you decided on the hd7082p...the hd7082p should be plenty.

if you decide you need to improve uhf, there is no problem adding a uhf antenna to a vhf antenna or combo setup. there are a few options for uhf. The cm4228, 43xg to name a few. I am not a fan of bowties in an attic, but many users use one with success.

with the single input preamp...hdp269...the 2 antennas would be combined with a cm 0549 vhf/uhf combiner. I prefer not to amplify vhf if you are interested in fm. in that case you would amplify uhf, pass vhf/fm and combine with the cm0549 then split the signal around the home.

use a winegard ca8000 tv/fm splitter to filter off the fm signal off the vhf antenna and send the fm signal to the receiver. the ca8800 only has .4db insertion loss as opposed to 3.5db loss of a standard 2 way splitter.

http://www.summitsource.com/winegard-ca8800-tv-antenna-signal-band-separator-video-vhf-uhf-fm-75-ohm-coaxial-cable-with-f-connector-plugs-coupler-combiner-ac-passive-part-ca8800-p-5703.html

http://www.summitsource.com/winegard-hdp269-12-db-gain-vhf-uhf-outdoor-offair-digital-signal-local-hdtv-channel-tv-antenna-aerial-12-vdc-75-ohm-preamplifier-designed-for-squareshooter-part-hdp269-p-5577.html

http://www.summitsource.com/winegard-hd7082p-television-antenna-platinum-hd-50-element-vhf-uhf-offair-hdtv-local-channel-signal-digital-outdoor-tv-aerial-75-ohm-blue-zone-part-hd7082-with-coax-cable-p-4563.html

http://www.warrenelectronics.com/Antennas/joiners.htm

I combine an hd8200p for vhf/fm and a 91xg for uhf through a cm0549 with an hdp269 preamp at my home and use the ca 8800 to filter off the fm on 2 of my receivers.

I installed an hd7082p with the hdp269 preamp at my parent's home last easter. I amplified uhf and passed vhf. I used two cm0549' s. one to separate the vhf and uhf off the hd7082P and and another cm0549 to combine the amplified uhf signal with the unamplified vhf. very pleased with the performance. Even does a great job on a 160 watt low power uhf nbc. you read right...160 watts...like a lightbulb.

The hd7082p does a good job with low band vhf and will come handy in your market.

First, a little background information; I live in a one story home in Arlington Heights, Illinois 60004. “Antennaweb” lists the channels as approximately 23.4 miles and 23.1 miles at 132 degrees and 128 degrees respectively. The majority of the channels emanate from the sears tower (132 degrees), although CBS, WGN, FOX and a few others reside at the 128 degree angle (Hancock Tower). I am currently using a “Radio Shack” VU-120XR antenna installed in the attic, I receive most of the digital stations at or above 60% signal strength (some as good as 99%) although CBS is at about 50% (Fox and WGN come in at appox. 85%), no multi-path problems currently exist anywhere among the channels I receive.
Which channels are you having a difficult time receiving, besides the infamous WBBM-DT CBS 2 on VHF 3? You are not that far away at 23 miles, so you should be able to get the other stations with any number of decent mid-range antennas. The problem station is WBBM-DT. All the other digital stations are currently on UHF, so you need to get an antenna with good UHF performance. Rick0725's recommendation is a good one, although the HD7082p may be on the overkill side - except for WBBM-DT.

Check the new Chicago OTA thread in the local HDTV reception forum. There is a lot of information in it, especially on receiving WBBM-DT.

The HD7082P has the design and specs to get the job done in chicago especially for low vhf band considerations. The rs and cm advantage antennas are underperformers in their size category.

A shorter antenna just does not have the specs to handle the longer wavelength on the lower vhf frequencies adaquately. The hd7082 is also a decent performer on fm and uhf. The extra gain comes in handy especially with an indoor install.

It is not a good idea to amplify the FM signal and the user desires to receive FM in the home. the hd7082 has enough vhf gain so amplification may not be necessary on the vhf side...only amplifying the uhf side of the antenna as mentioned above.

Overkill is a non issue when you want the best possible reception at your home and do not want to screw around

You need a big honkin' antenna with long elements to get lowband VHF channel 3.
At 110" length and width, the HD7082P (http://members.aol.com/ozarkbears/misc/7082p.pdf) fills the bill.

Such a long antenna won't be needed after 2009, when WBBM-DT moves to highband VHF.

Hello; I’m new to this fantastic site and I have a few questions regarding OTA Antennas. Although the answers to my questions may have already been answered I could not (as of yet) find any similar questions or answers on this web site.

First, a little background information; I live in a one story home in Arlington Heights, Illinois 60004. “Antennaweb” lists the channels as approximately 23.4 miles and 23.1 miles at 132 degrees and 128 degrees respectively. The majority of the channels emanate from the sears tower (132 degrees), although CBS, WGN, FOX and a few others reside at the 128 degree angle (Hancock Tower). I am currently using a “Radio Shack” VU-120XR antenna installed in the attic, I receive most of the digital stations at or above 60% signal strength (some as good as 99%) although CBS is at about 50% (Fox and WGN come in at appox. 85%), no multi-path problems currently exist anywhere among the channels I receive. I used “Belden” Quad Shield RG6 exclusively for distribution of all signals from the attic to my distribution point (running approx 35 ft.) to the basement. I split the cable to feed the HDTV (basement location) and to my living room 2 channel stereo system (for F.M.) (yes there still is 2 channel audio). Simply put, I would like to get better reception for the HDTV. Here’s the clincher I want to keep the antenna(s) inside the attic.

My questions are in regards to antennas. Firstly; I’m I better off using two antennas and combine the UHF and VHF signals via a UHF/VHF combiner? My thoughts would be to use the Channel Master 4228 for the UHF and a “Winegard” or “Channel Master” UHF/VHF/FM model(s) for the VHF and FM. Although these are large models I believe (after reading many posts here) that the increase in sensitivity is important since I am installing the antennas in an attic. In regards to the first question, what are the inherent problems that occur when different antennas are used? Is it better to use a single all purpose high quality UHF/VHF/FM antenna i.e. “Winegard” HD7082P, “Channel Master” CM3679 (these models will fit within my attic space) than to combine the signals via two different antennas? My overall thinking is that either way using a much higher quality antenna can only help with overall reception. Thank you all in advance for your time and knowledge.


Welcome to the AVS Fourm. You can get allot of infomation and answer and get better answer if you go over the the new Chicago-OTA thread and posted there. Read the first 6 post all those was just created about 2 weeks ago and Gilbert " sebenste" has put alot of time in createing the new Chicago-OTA thread and answer allot of questions and there is few others members that could give you good answer or directions also. Just copy your orginal post and put it over the chicago thread.

Here the link to the new Chicago-OTA thread.

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=815397

Good luck :)

-Willie

Willie, thanks for posting that chicago thread. It is very well organized!

Thanks for all of the lighting quick responses. I just purchased the Winegard HD7082P today at Tri State Electronics in Mount Prospect, Illinois $97.00 with tax (all I can say is I like to keep my money local and above all else, instant gratification). I am starting with just the antenna and I will add to it (preamps, etc) if need be. I may have a few more questions if I run into trouble. A quick comment on Winegard antenna; the build quality is phenomenal, rock solid, I will definitely buy their products again.

I will post some information comparing the old and new antennas signal power in the next day or two. I have to get this antenna installed and finished before my wife comes back from visiting guess who on Saturday morning, so I’ll be busy for the next few nights. I’ll also post this original question and my results on the Chicago thread. Thanks again, everyone.

Mike

save the reciept for that overpriced freakish antenna you bought,

here is the antenna i am using and its UHF only and thats exacxtly what you want.

http://www.radioshack.com/product/index.jsp?productId=2103088&cp=2032057.2032187.2032189.2032205&parentPage=family

incase the link dissapears here is the model #...U75-R or part # 15-2160

i got two of them combined with a splitter and i get every channel in the area over 60 miles a away the antenna is rated at 75 miles and beyond.

this UHF antenna is very small and extremely powerful. it beats the crap out of the 9 foot monstoristy on the roof we had before.

save the reciept for that overpriced freakish antenna you bought,

here is the antenna i am using and its UHF only and thats exacxtly what you want.

http://www.radioshack.com/product/index.jsp?productId=2103088&cp=2032057.2032187.2032189.2032205&parentPage=family

incase the link dissapears here is the model #...U75-R or part # 15-2160.
Did you read which stations he is looking to get? He has WBBM-DT CBS 2 broadcasting on VHF 3, so he needs a large VHF/UHF antenna. Not a UHF only antenna.

I tried out the Radio Shack U-75R yagi. I found it to be very touchy for the right aim and rather narrow in pickup beam. In my situation, the Channel Master 4221 4 Bay bowtie easily outperformed the U-75R for picking up stations. The U-75R is an ok antenna if all the digital stations are in the same narrow direction and they are on UHF & will stay on UHF after the analog shutdown in 2009. But this is not the case for most people.

save the reciept for that overpriced freakish antenna you bought,

here is the antenna i am using and its UHF only and thats exacxtly what you want.

http://www.radioshack.com/product/index.jsp?productId=2103088&cp=2032057.2032187.2032189.2032205&parentPage=family

incase the link dissapears here is the model #...U75-R or part # 15-2160

i got two of them combined with a splitter and i get every channel in the area over 60 miles a away the antenna is rated at 75 miles and beyond.

this UHF antenna is very small and extremely powerful. it beats the crap out of the 9 foot monstoristy on the roof we had before.

Do not buy a UHF only antenna in Chicago.

I split the cable to feed the HDTV (basement location) and to my living room 2 channel stereo system (for F.M.) (yes there still is 2 channel audio).



Why do you want a stronger signal? Are you having reliability problems WBBM? With DTV, once the signal is adequate, a stronger signal does not improve picture quality.

Don't install a UHF only antenna, it won't work for either the stereo or CBS.

If you are using a standard TV splitter for the Stereo, try replacing it with a Winegard CA8800. It filters out the FM so that the splitter loss is minimized. Alternatively, a Winegard HDP-269 in the attic will also overcome the loss of your existing splitter.

webs67, Echoing what others have said, do not follow whines83's UHF antenna advice.

i know on the digital spectrum i get all the channels with my UHF only antenna..

now if he is talking about analog signals of course he is going to need a VHF antenna.

look at the frequencies on antennaweb.org for a better understanding of what i am trying to tell you..

say the analog version of the channel is 3..while the frequency is 38 while the digital channel is 3.1 you will still be able to pull in that digital signal with a UHF antenna.

get the facts straight..

again if you want analog only keep the antenna you have.

Sorry but CBS DT in Chicago 2.1 transmitts on VHF 3. Get your facts straight!

i know on the digital spectrum i get all the channels with my UHF only antenna..

now if he is talking about analog signals of course he is going to need a VHF antenna.

look at the frequencies on antennaweb.org for a better understanding of what i am trying to tell you..

say the analog version of the channel is 3..while the frequency is 38 while the digital channel is 3.1 you will still be able to pull in that digital signal with a UHF antenna.

get the facts straight..

again if you want analog only keep the antenna you have.


??? :confused: I just look up the antennaweb.org and see the WBBM-DT is digitally on 3 and on analog is 2. :confused: Ok what zip code were you using to say it was in the UHF ?

He was probably using his own in NC. :rolleyes:

whines83, quit spreading bad information. You don't know WTF you're talking about.

A lot of cities use V H F for digital television.

Albany GA 12 WFXL FOX
Albuquerque 12 KOVT ABC
Amarillo 9 KFDA CBS
Atlanta 10 WXIA NBC
Bakersfield CA 10 KERO ABC
Bangor ME 10 WMED PBS
Bangor ME 9 WMEB PBS
Bangor ME 7 WBNG CBS
Baton Rouge 13 WBRZ ABC
Billings MT 11 KULR NBC
Boise ID 10 KNIN UPN
Butte 2 KTVM CBS
Casper WY 8 KCWC PBS
Charlotte NC 11 WTVI PBS
Chattanooga 13 WRCB NBC
Cheyenne WY 11 KKTU NBC
Chicago 10 WWTO IND
Chicago 3 WBBM CBS
Cincinnati 10 WCPO ABC
Cleveland 10 WOIO CBS
Cleveland 12 WMFD IND
Cleveland 2 WKYC NBC
Columbia SC 8 WOLO ABC
Columbus OH 13 WSYX ABC
Denver 10 KMAS Telemundo
Fort Wayne IN 12 WINM IND
Fresno 9 KFSN ABC
Fresno 7 KAIL UPN
Grand Junction CO 2 KREX CBS
Grand Junction CO 12 KKCO NBC
Grand Junction CO 7 KJCT ABC
Grand Rapids MI 2 WWMT CBS
Grand Rapids MI 7 WOOD NBC
Great Falls 8 KFBB ABC
Greenville NC 10 WNCT CBS
Greenville SC 9 WNTV PBS
Harlingen TX 13 KRGV ABC
Harrisburg PA 4 WHP CBS
Harrisonburg VA 11 WVPT PBS
Hartford 12 WTXX UPN
Hartford 10 WTNH ABC
Houston 9 KUHT PBS
Idaho Falls 9 KIFI ABC
Indianapolis 9 WISH CBS
Jacksonville FL 13 WTLV NBC
Jacksonville FL 10 WJXX ABC
Jonesboro AR 9 KAIT ABC
Joplin MO 13 KOAM CBS
Kansas City 7 KMBC ABC
Lafayette IN 11 WLFI CBS
Lake Charles 8 KPLC NBC
Las Vegas 9 KVVU FOX
Las Vegas 2 KVBC NBC
Las Vegas 12 KNTV ABC
Las Vegas 11 KLVX PBS
Las Vegas 7 KLAS CBS
Lexington 13 WKYT CBS
Lexington 4 WDKY FOX
Lima OH 8 WLIO NBC
Little Rock 12 KTHV CBS
Louisville 8 WBNA PAX
Lubbock TX 9 KCBD NBC
Macon 4 WMAZ CBS
Madison WI 11 WMSN FOX
Medford OR 13 KOTI NBC
Miami 8 WSVN FOX
Miami 9 WPLG ABC
Milwaukee 8 WMVS PBS
Missoula 7 KPAX CBS
Mobile 9 WALA FOX
Monroe LA 7 KNOE CBS
Monterey 10 KSBW CBS
Nashville 10 WSMV NBC
New York 12 WPIX WB
North Platte NE 7 KDUH ABC
Oklahoma City 7 KOCO ABC
Orlando FL 11 WESH NBC
Providence 13 WPRI CBS
Rapid City SD 2 KOTA ABC
Rapid City SD 10 KHSD ABC
Reno 13 KTVN CBS
Reno 7 KRNV NBC
Roanoke 3 WBRA PBS
Salt Lake City 9 KUSG CBS
San Angelo TX 11 KLST CBS
San Antonio 8 KLRN PBS
San Francisco 12 KNTV NBC
Spokane 13 KXLY ABC
Spokane 12 KUID PBS
Spokane 8 KSPS PBS
Springfield MA 11 WWLP NBC
Tallahassee 2 WTWC NBC
Tampa 12 WTVT FOX
Tampa 7 WFLA NBC
Tulsa 10 KTUL ABC
Waco 9 KCEN ABC
Waco 12 KAMU PBS
Waco 13 KAKW UPN
Washington DC 12 WWPX PAX
West Palm Beach 13 WPEC CBS
Wilkes Barre PA 13 WYOU CBS

This is only a partial list. There are more. Try Googling VHF digital TV stations (http://www.google.com/search?q=vhf+digital+tv+stations)

I'm using a home made DB4 and a AntennaCraft Y5-2-6 to get all the local DT channels, both in my attic at aprox. 700' elevation. The Y5 is receiving WBBM-DT channel 3 rather well and also WWTO-DT channel 10 from Utica like 90* from the WSW. Both antennas are pointed 33* toward transmitters and are combined with a inexpensive UVSJ VHF/UHF combiner. I here to seperate antennas are the best. :D

wireman, I used to use a dedicated home-made lowband VHF attic antenna for a 2kW digital station on ch 5, about 25 mi away from my previous abode. Worked great, combined w/ a CM4221 for the U's.

wireman, I used to use a dedicated home-made lowband VHF attic antenna for a 2kW digital station on ch 5, about 25 mi away from my previous abode. Worked great, combined w/ a CM4221 for the U's.


I tried a folded dipole cut for channel 3 and got it reliably locked only at night and during low local interferance situations. The Y5-2-6 at 80" boom just fits in my attic

get the facts straight..



We did.

whines83, quit spreading bad information. You don't know WTF you're talking about.

A lot of cities use V H F for digital television.
Albany GA 12 WFXL FOX
[snip]
I looked at the spreadsheets I downloaded from the FCC website for 1st & 2nd round and 3rd round digital channel selection which I combined into 1 excel file. There are a few stations not on the list, but a quick sort shows that there are at least 221 stations currently authorized to digitally broadcast on VHF. While the some of the stations which have opted for low VHF in 2009 may yet be moved to UHF, especially those who have opted for VHF 6, there are currently 494 stations on the list which have opted for VHF after the analog shutdown.

I'm just pointing out that stating that there are close to 221 digital stations currently at VHF is a shorter reply to whines83, who sadly does not have his facts straight, than listing all the stations. :D

I looked at the spreadsheets I downloaded from the FCC website for 1st & 2nd round and 3rd round digital channel selection which I combined into 1 excel file. There are a few stations not on the list, but a quick sort shows that there are at least 221 stations currently authorized to digitally broadcast on VHF. While the some of the stations which have opted for low VHF in 2009 may yet be moved to UHF, especially those who have opted for VHF 6, there are currently 494 stations on the list which have opted for VHF after the analog shutdown.

I'm just pointing out that stating that there are close to 221 digital stations currently at VHF is a shorter reply to whines83, who sadly does not have his facts straight, than listing all the stations. :D


Hi afiggatt, where did you get the 3rd round list ? I have the 2nd round list, but I just can't find the 3rd round one at FCC site, I did see the 3rd round but it showed as 2nd round :confused: . And have you see or heard for the the 4th ? or special round for the station that in the 2-6 VHF that wants to move over to 7-51 that was deadline on the 2-26-07 ?

-Willie

Here’s an update on the current situation. CBS (WBBM) is no longer a problem station (see below). I placed the new Winegard antenna (HD7082P) in the attic yesterday (to replace the Radio Shack VU-120XR) aimed at 130 degrees. I determined the angle by using an old compass with a rotating bezel that I mounted to a piece of scrap wood approximately the size of a yard stick. This allowed me to determine the correct direction in which to point the antenna. The wood also raises the compass above the antenna so as not to cause false readings.

Below is a run down of the stations that are currently programmed into the TV. Credit goes to member Gilbert “Sebenste” for his list of Chicago area stations which I copied from the Chicago, IL – OTA forum, to show current signal strength at my location. I am only interested in the digital channels. No other additional accessories have been added as of Friday.

WBBM-DT (3) 2-1: CBS HD - (Before) ~35%-55%, (Currently) ~90%-97%

WMAQ-DT (29)
5-1 : NBC HD - (Before) ~80%-92%, (Currently) ~15%-68%
5-2 : NBC Weather Plus - (Before) ~80%-92%, (Currently) ~15%-68%

WLS-DT (52)
7-1 : ABC HD – (Before) ~72%-86%, (Currently) ~75%-88%
7-2 : ABC 7 News reruns/Infomercials - (Before) ~72%-86%, (Currently) ~75%-88%
7-3 : ABC News Now / Accu-Weather - (Before) ~72%-86%, (Currently) ~75%-88%

WGN-DT (19)
9-1 : The CW - (Before) ~72%-86%, (Currently) ~15%-60%
9-2 : The Tube Music Network - (Before) ~72%-86%, (Currently) ~15%-60%

WTTW-DT (47)
11-1 : PBS HD - (Before) ~90%+, (Currently) ~95%+
11-2 : WTTW-TV (PBS SD) - (Before) ~90%+, (Currently) ~95%+
11-3 : PBS Create - (Before) ~90%+, (Currently) ~95%+
11-4 : V-Me (espanol) - (Before) ~90%+, (Currently) ~95%+

WCIU-DT (27)
26-1 : Independent – (Before) ~72%-86%, (Currently) ~72%-86%
26-2 : WWME-TV 23 SD - (Before) ~72%-86%, (Currently) ~72%-86%

WFLD-DT (31)
32-1 : FOX HD - (Before) ~72%-86%, (Currently) ~72%-86%

WPWR-DT (51)
50-1 : MNTV HD - (Before) ~72%-86%, (Currently) ~80%-90%

Other Digital Stations

WYCC-DT (21)
20-1 : PBS - (Before) ~95%+, (Currently) ~97%+
20-2 : Test pattern - 480i

WCPX-DT (43)
38-1 : ION - (Before) ~60%-76%, (Currently) ~72%-86%
38-2 : Qubo (children's programming) – (Before) ~60%-76%, (Currently) ~72%-86%
38-3 : ION Life - (Before) ~60%-76%, (Currently) ~72%-86%

Late night all signals go up (other than signals above 90%).

As of Saturday morning I went out and purchased the HDP-269 preamp (returnable). This only had a small impact on the two stations that were the laggards (WMAQ and WGN). WBBM, WTTW and WYCC remained unaffected after the installation of the pre-amp. There were signal strength increases across the board on all of the other stations. FM signals are pinned at the 9.5 level across the board (Magnum Dynalab FT-101). So here’s what I’m thinking of doing now; purchase a UHF only antenna to work in conjunction with the HD7082P (thereby hopefully increasing the signal strength of UHF band including WMAQ (29) and WGN (19)). Purchase a combiner unit. Would I still be able to use the HDP-269 when I use two different antennas or does a different pre-amp need to be used.

Thanks;

Mike

Purchase a combiner unit. Would I still be able to use the HDP-269 when I use two different antennas or does a different pre-amp need to be used.

continue to use the hdp269 as your preamp. The higher gain preamps are a risk for overload at your home. Your signals are stong.

As mentioned earlier, with a single input preamp like the hdp269, the hd7082p for vhf and the uhf antenna of your choice would be combined with a cm 0549 or pico vhf/uhf combiner. The combined output of the vhf/uhf combiner would connect to the "antenna in" of the hdp269 preamp.

http://www.solidsignal.com/prod_display.asp?PROD=UVSJ

http://www.warrenelectronics.com/Antennas/joiners.htm

You have several options with that setup. You can amplify uhf and not amplify vhf or amplify both, etc.

The dbd measured gain on the hd7082p from ch 14 to ch 32 goes from 13.0 to 12.2 but the front to back ratio is low on ch 14 and goes from 10.5db to >20 on ch 32. There may be some multipath and signal reflection issues coming into play in your attic and you may need to turn or move the antenna slightly to tame it.

There is a large drop in signal coming from a better performing antenna on those 2 channels and is not typical. Experiment further with aim and antenna position to see if you can improve the signal on your weak stations. You may need to compromise a tadd.

you may not need a separate uhf antenna after all is said and done.

You should consider amplifying uhf and passing vhf/fm. the levels on ch 3 are very high and it is not good to amplify fm. there are 2 processes...one for the hd7082p alone and one for separate vhf/fm and uhf antennas.

This is the process for one antenna. see diagram attached. The diagram shows a cm7777 but you can substitute any other preamp. The diagram was originally for another user.

-you would need 2 cm0549's.
- separate the vhf/fm and uhf signals off the antenna with a cm0549.
-The uhf gets amplified off the uhf port of the cm0549.
-the to tv output of the preamp goes to the uhf port of the second cm0549
-the vhf gets looped through from one cm0549 to the second cm0549
-the combined amplified uhf and unamplified vhf off the 2nd cm0549 is sent to the tuners.

-instead of using a standard splitter to split the signal from the antenna to the fm tuner use a winegard CA8800 tv/fm splitter combiner. The insertion loss is only .4 db as opposed to 3.5 db for a standard 2 way splitter. This process will send a clean unamplified signal to your fm tuner.

http://www.summitsource.com/winegard-ca8800-tv-antenna-signal-band-separator-video-vhf-uhf-fm-75-ohm-coaxial-cable-with-f-connector-plugs-coupler-combiner-ac-passive-part-ca8800-p-5703.html

diagram2 is for separate uhf and vhf antennas.


WMAQ-DT (29)
5-1 : NBC HD - (Before) ~80%-92%, (Currently) ~15%-68%
5-2 : NBC Weather Plus - (Before) ~80%-92%, (Currently) ~15%-68%

WGN-DT (19)
9-1 : The CW - (Before) ~72%-86%, (Currently) ~15%-60%
9-2 : The Tube Music Network - (Before) ~72%-86%, (Currently) ~15%-60%

Here’s an update on the current situation. CBS (WBBM) is no longer a problem station (see below). I placed the new Winegard antenna (HD7082P) in the attic yesterday (to replace the Radio Shack VU-120XR) aimed at 130 degrees. I determined the angle by using an old compass with a rotating bezel that I mounted to a piece of scrap wood approximately the size of a yard stick. This allowed me to determine the correct direction in which to point the antenna. The wood also raises the compass above the antenna so as not to cause false readings.
I don't see anything in your post where you tried to tweak the aim. An attic can have null spots for reception because of signal reflections from the walls or obstructions. For starters, I suggest you move the aim of the antenna to the left and the right a few degrees and see if the 2 weak stations improve. You also might want to raise or lower the aim. I imagine given the size of the HD7082P that you have it mounted on a fixed pole, but if you can move the antenna around a couple of feet, you should try that as well if tweaking the aim does not work. Raising or lowering the antenna a foot or so might help. I suggest you try this before getting another antenna.

Also, you don't need to post results for all the sub-channels, just one. Sub-channels are part of the same data stream from the station. If you get 5-1, you get 5-2 (assuming that the PSIP info is not messed up for the sub-channel).

Hi afiggatt, where did you get the 3rd round list ? I have the 2nd round list, but I just can't find the 3rd round one at FCC site, I did see the 3rd round but it showed as 2nd round :confused: . And have you see or heard for the the 4th ? or special round for the station that in the 2-6 VHF that wants to move over to 7-51 that was deadline on the 2-26-07?
There are only around 20 stations on the 3rd round list. It is located under the August 29, 2006 header at http://www.fcc.gov/dtv/.

I have no idea when info on, what I guess they are calling the 4th round, will be released. If the final submission deadline was Feb. 26, they got a lot of work to do to sort through all the options. But they are under pressure to make the absolute final channel selections as 2-17-09 is less than two years away.

http://hraunfoss.fcc.gov/edocs_public/attachmatch/DA-06-1082A2.pdf

http://hraunfoss.fcc.gov/edocs_public/attachmatch/DA-06-1675A2.pdf

There also is a low power dtv ch election list somewhere. I had one but misplaced it.

Here’s an update on the current situation. CBS (WBBM) is no longer a problem station (see below). I placed the new Winegard antenna (HD7082P) in the attic yesterday (to replace the Radio Shack VU-120XR) aimed at 130 degrees. I determined the angle by using an old compass with a rotating bezel that I mounted to a piece of scrap wood approximately the size of a yard stick. This allowed me to determine the correct direction in which to point the antenna. The wood also raises the compass above the antenna so as not to cause false readings.

Below is a run down of the stations that are currently programmed into the TV. Credit goes to member Gilbert “Sebenste” for his list of Chicago area stations which I copied from the Chicago, IL – OTA forum, to show current signal strength at my location. I am only interested in the digital channels. No other additional accessories have been added as of Friday.

WBBM-DT (3) 2-1: CBS HD - (Before) ~35%-55%, (Currently) ~90%-97%

WMAQ-DT (29)
5-1 : NBC HD - (Before) ~80%-92%, (Currently) ~15%-68%
5-2 : NBC Weather Plus - (Before) ~80%-92%, (Currently) ~15%-68%

WLS-DT (52)
7-1 : ABC HD – (Before) ~72%-86%, (Currently) ~75%-88%
7-2 : ABC 7 News reruns/Infomercials - (Before) ~72%-86%, (Currently) ~75%-88%
7-3 : ABC News Now / Accu-Weather - (Before) ~72%-86%, (Currently) ~75%-88%

WGN-DT (19)
9-1 : The CW - (Before) ~72%-86%, (Currently) ~15%-60%
9-2 : The Tube Music Network - (Before) ~72%-86%, (Currently) ~15%-60%

WTTW-DT (47)
11-1 : PBS HD - (Before) ~90%+, (Currently) ~95%+
11-2 : WTTW-TV (PBS SD) - (Before) ~90%+, (Currently) ~95%+
11-3 : PBS Create - (Before) ~90%+, (Currently) ~95%+
11-4 : V-Me (espanol) - (Before) ~90%+, (Currently) ~95%+

WCIU-DT (27)
26-1 : Independent – (Before) ~72%-86%, (Currently) ~72%-86%
26-2 : WWME-TV 23 SD - (Before) ~72%-86%, (Currently) ~72%-86%

WFLD-DT (31)
32-1 : FOX HD - (Before) ~72%-86%, (Currently) ~72%-86%

WPWR-DT (51)
50-1 : MNTV HD - (Before) ~72%-86%, (Currently) ~80%-90%

Other Digital Stations

WYCC-DT (21)
20-1 : PBS - (Before) ~95%+, (Currently) ~97%+
20-2 : Test pattern - 480i

WCPX-DT (43)
38-1 : ION - (Before) ~60%-76%, (Currently) ~72%-86%
38-2 : Qubo (children's programming) – (Before) ~60%-76%, (Currently) ~72%-86%
38-3 : ION Life - (Before) ~60%-76%, (Currently) ~72%-86%

Late night all signals go up (other than signals above 90%).

As of Saturday morning I went out and purchased the HDP-269 preamp (returnable). This only had a small impact on the two stations that were the laggards (WMAQ and WGN). WBBM, WTTW and WYCC remained unaffected after the installation of the pre-amp. There were signal strength increases across the board on all of the other stations. FM signals are pinned at the 9.5 level across the board (Magnum Dynalab FT-101). So here’s what I’m thinking of doing now; purchase a UHF only antenna to work in conjunction with the HD7082P (thereby hopefully increasing the signal strength of UHF band including WMAQ (29) and WGN (19)). Purchase a combiner unit. Would I still be able to use the HDP-269 when I use two different antennas or does a different pre-amp need to be used.

Thanks;

Mike


Congratulation Mike,

It helps when you have good information that Gilbert posted in the Chicago thread that is most up to the date. I would try to reaim like like above have said before you get another antenna and also remember spring is is comming around so the tree will be budding soon and the leaves will be out so that may affect the signal as well it may improve :D or get worst :eek: . Just note where you have the antenna now and may have to rerest to it in the fall after leaves falls. It does not need to be perfect 100% signal. I have the same problem with WMAQ and WGN I just move the base of the antenna and found a sweet spot to get all the Chicago from one spot. I have seen attic set up that is mounted with kite strings instead of poles.

Another Question are you still using the RG-59 coax or RG-6 / Quad? If RG-59 I would change to RG-6 Quad. It did make a day and night differences from RG-59 to RG-6 with much improved signal quality after the change.

You should really post your results over at the Chicago thread.


-Willie

afiggatt, Thanks for the link, but I guess I did have it, I just thought it would be a complete listing or as a updated listing of round 2. As on the 4th round I just was wondering who requested to move, as we all know how our overpaid and underworked goverment works ;) won't finalize the result for while yet maybe it will be done on 2-28-09 :D .


Rick, I also thanks to you for links as which those I already had.


-Willie

RG6 quad is really not necessary unless you suspect critical interference ingress, etc. of some kind into the system. The loss per 100' is similar to regular RG6 (comparing similar brand within product lineup) since the copper core diameter is the same. Rg6 quad adds layers of shielding.

examples of applications for quad shielded cable

-cable TV systems to keep off-the-air broadcasts from interfering with cable channels using the same frequencies.
-close to a transmitting tower

If you are really close to a source of interference, the
quad shield will buy some protection. On the other hand it is not much more
expensive so why not use the better shield.

Replacing RG59 with RG6 is a good thing.

RG6 quad is really not necessary unless you suspect critical interference ingress, etc. of some kind into the system. The loss per 100' is similar to regular RG6 (comparing similar brand within product lineup) since the copper core diameter is the same. Rg6 quad adds layers of shielding.

examples of applications for quad shielded cable

-cable TV systems to keep off-the-air broadcasts from interfering with cable channels using the same frequencies.
-close to a transmitting tower

If you are really close to a source of interference, the
quad shield will buy some protection. On the other hand it is not much more
expensive so why not use the better shield.

Replacing RG59 with RG6 is a good thing.

Rick, I am not trying to agrue with you but you are right the center conductor is no difference but just more shielding and another thing soild copper is better too which most of us don't really say it more often. But in Chicagoland which he in and the interference can be so bad in some area and he want to get WBBM-DT on 3 and he is close to the O'Hare airport. It just much easier to go to RG-6 Quad and be done with and it only cost 2-5 cent more per foot over the RG-6. I know you live away from major city but in Chicago land interference is so bad it like in the old days when you have a bad cap and rotor and no resitsers spark plugs in a car and the car goes by and mess up your TV or radio :eek: . That might been to many years ago for you to remember :D that was the days when you could sit in on the inner fender well in the engine compartment and work on your engines :D .

-Willie

To give a little more information, the new antenna is mounted on an inverted pole approximately 5' to the east of the original antenna. All coax throughout the house is RG6 quad shield terminated with Thomas & Betts "snap n seal" ends.

I have been working on the aim of the antenna for the past few hours (including yesterday), and I will continue to do so today. If need be I will move the antenna back to where the old antenna was located, to see if that helps with some of the UHF reception (null spot), I’ll let you all know.

Mike

The impulse noise that afflicts lowband channels is in-band interference that gets into the system through the antenna rather than by leaking in thorough the shielding, so making the shielding more dense will not improve the reliability of broadcast DTV signals. The only benefit of a copper center conductor is realized when DC voltage is sent over a long distance to a preamplifier, as there is less DC resistance per unit length than there is in copper-clad steel, so the voltage at the load end of the coax will remain closer to its source level. This is a more important coax selection criterion in satellite systems than for off-air preamplifiers, since the satellite system's nominal 18 VDC LNB voltage must stay above 15.5 volts to assure that the correct set of transponders is called, but antenna preamplifiers all work well even with a few volts of line induced voltage drop.

To give a little more information, the new antenna is mounted on an inverted pole approximately 5' to the east of the original antenna. All coax throughout the house is RG6 quad shield terminated with Thomas & Betts "snap n seal" ends.

I have been working on the aim of the antenna for the past few hours (including yesterday), and I will continue to do so today. If need be I will move the antenna back to where the old antenna was located, to see if that helps with some of the UHF reception (null spot), I’ll let you all know.

Mike


Look like you got good antenna, coax and T & B is the good choice conntectors look like you have done a good homework before you tackle this. The main thing is that you can get WBBM-DT and now just matter of fine tuneing it to get it better signal to get all station from one spot.

-Willie

Hello All; A quick update, I moved the antenna to where the original antenna was set. I must have been in a null area (as mentioned in the above replies) because all channels other than WGN (19) are coming in at or above 88% (2 p.m. Central Time). So far: WGN is now at 55-70% (still frequent pixilation) but much better than before, the other problem station WMAQ (29) is now at 88%-94%, WBBM is at 88%+, WTTW 95%+, WLS 88%+, but the antenna has not been adjusted for horizontal or final angle (it’s close but not fully tweaked as of yet). Once again I will keep you informed as to my progress.

Mike