As with the blu-ray/hd-dvd thing, I would give it until the end of 2007 to make any type of predictions. It's too early to tell if the ps3 will pick up once quality games come out. It's too early to tell if blu-ray will widen the lead over hd-dvd or if hd-dvd will regain the lead for the long term.


There are quality games now for the PS3. Oblivion (graphically better than the 360 version by all accounts), Motorstorm, Resistance (not as pretty as GOW but unlike Gears has no framerate hitches, lots more activity on screen...a quality game), Fight Night, Virtual Tennis, etc, etc.

The lazy media like to parrot this line but to say there are no quality games for the PS3 is patently absurd.

There are quality games now for the PS3. Oblivion (graphically better than the 360 version by all accounts), Motorstorm, Resistance (not as pretty as GOW but unlike Gears has no framerate hitches, lots more activity on screen...a quality game), Fight Night, Virtual Tennis, etc, etc.

The lazy media like to parrot this line but to say there are no quality games for the PS3 is patently absurd.


You'd agree that the lineup of games is still rather thin though, especially on the exclusive side?

R:FOM is a good game, but gets tiring because it's been out for 5 months or so. MS is cool, but a niche game. If there weren't so few games for the ps3, it wouldn't have had the popularity that it had.

June has a few exclusives, namely lair & NG-sigma if they don't get pushed back. NG should be good. Hopefully lair won't be a dynasty warrior button masher. A lot of other games are slated for late 07.

and? :rolleyes:

I have yet to play a regular DVD on my 360... Thats what a DVD player is for...

Well plus I never really enjoy quiet scenes as the system isn't quiet, couple along with being a fragile system in the first place. :(

Maybe some want a cigar to be a cigar and a game to be a game?And how does Blu-ray dilute gaming? If you want to talk about Wii that's offtopic anyway.

smart HD DVD supporters:

'Tis but thy name that is my enemy;
Thou art thyself, though not a SONY.
What's SONY? it is nor hand, nor foot,
Nor arm, nor face, nor any other part
Belonging to a man. O, be some other name!
What's in a name? that which we call a rose
By any other name would smell as sweet;
So Blu-Ray would, were he not BD call'd,
Retain that dear perfection which he owes
Without that title. BD, doff thy name,
And for that name which is no part of thee
Take all myself.

You'd agree that the lineup of games is still rather thin though, especially on the exclusive side?

R:FOM is a good game, but gets tiring because it's been out for 5 months or so. MS is cool, but a niche game. If there weren't so few games for the ps3, it wouldn't have had the popularity that it had.

June has a few exclusives, namely lair & NG-sigma if they don't get pushed back. NG should be good. Hopefully lair won't be a dynasty warrior button masher. A lot of other games are slated for late 07.

Was Rogue Squadron a button smasher? Cause that's who Factor 5 is, I highly doubt it's anything like Dynasty Warriors. Factor 5 is a really good studio and they understand how to sell games to the bigger markets (NA and Europe).

Lair is probably gonna be really good I think. On the exclusive side, it's a little thin. But then again, you get a great BD player with it.

Was Rogue Squadron a button smasher? Cause that's who Factor 5 is, I highly doubt it's anything like Dynasty Warriors. Factor 5 is a really good studio and they understand how to sell games to the bigger markets (NA and Europe).

Lair is probably gonna be really good I think. On the exclusive side, it's a little thin. But then again, you get a great BD player with it.


Have you seen the (very early) video demo of lair? That demo gave me an impression of it being a "button masher". *fireball* *fireball* *fireball* *fireball* *fireball*

I'm hoping lair will get released in june, and I'm hoping the game will be as promising as it appears to be. But I tend to be more pessimistic than most people. IMO the people who get overly excited are the ones who feel let down when the games dont look as goo as target renders.

Back to topic. Did anyone notice that vgcharts 1wk number for outside of Japan+NA is now 870K? So that makes europe about what ? 800,000 in 1 week? Still below the 1M sony wanted, but much better than the doomsday scenarios painted here.

Total worldwide sellthrough is now just above 3M, significanltly below what SNE wanted, but with another 2M in the channel, it's not too much below what they said, though that much inventory could be a problem.

Have you seen the (very early) video demo of lair? That demo gave me an impression of it being a "button masher". *fireball* *fireball* *fireball* *fireball* *fireball*

I'm hoping lair will get released in june, and I'm hoping the game will be as promising as it appears to be. But I tend to be more pessimistic than most people. IMO the people who get overly excited are the ones who feel let down when the games dont look as goo as target renders.

Well, I'm just saying if you ever played Rogue Squadron, which was Factor 5s big title on the gamecube you would know their games are not button mashers.

The in air combat as seen from recent gameplay videos indicates much more than just repeating the same buttons over and over. Also the demonstrations using the tilt control show how the game will be much more interactive.

Factor 5 is a pretty good studio. I know even the best can release bad games. But they are still pretty dang good.

Back to topic. Did anyone notice that vgcharts 1wk number for outside of Japan+NA is now 870K? So that makes europe about what ? 800,000 in 1 week? Still below the 1M sony wanted, but much better than the doomsday scenarios painted here.

Total worldwide sellthrough is now just above 3M, significanltly below what SNE wanted, but with another 2M in the channel, it's not too much below what they said, though that much inventory could be a problem.

Considering how few Hi-def players have been sold in Europe and disc sales have been way lower than in the US, 800k would be more than enough to tilt the balance way in blu-rays favor.

Back to topic. Did anyone notice that vgcharts 1wk number for outside of Japan+NA is now 870K? So that makes europe about what ? 800,000 in 1 week? Still below the 1M sony wanted, but much better than the doomsday scenarios painted here.

vgcharts? Do they have a crystal ball?

If the launch was as bad as the American launch then it will be slow.

If the launch was as bad as the American launch then it will be slow.

From all indications, it seems that the PS3 actually had a good launch weekend. I don't know where you are getting your information from.

vgcharts? Do they have a crystal ball?I don't know exactly how they get their info, but they seem to be a pretty trusted source. Their initial numbers for the European launch were a lot closer to what ended up getting reported than I think most would have been gleened from the doom-and-gloom of many of the stories from the first few days of this launch (which were pretty funny IMO). One interesting thing right now is that they currently show "Others" as having more sales than "Japan" at 870k to 850k. I hope we can get some software sales numbers for Europe, as those PS3s should have quite an effect on the balance between the two formats.

--Darin

PS3 hardware have dropped by 82 per cent
Link (http://www.dailytech.com/article.aspx?newsid=6763)

PS3 hardware have dropped by 82 per cent
Link (http://www.dailytech.com/article.aspx?newsid=6763)They should drop a lot, but I don't know by what percentage. Here are some things that article indicates:

1. Over 165k were sold in the first 48 hours.
2. Sony provided roughly 200k for launch.
3. Sales dropped by 82% the 2nd week.

Even if we assumed that the 165k was for the whole first week, then 18% of the 165k would be close to 30k in additional sales. Or getting close to the 200k provided for launch.

BTW: From looking at vgcharts.org, it looks like the XBOX360 averaged a little more than 14k sales per week for the entire year (which includes the holiday season).

--Darin

PS3 hardware have dropped by 82 per cent
Link (http://www.dailytech.com/article.aspx?newsid=6763)


Sometimes you gotta love/hate the media. First the launch was a flop, now the launch is successful, but post launch is taking a huge hit!

If they wanted to provide unbiased info, they would have contained the statistics darin has provided to "soften the blow". Usually this isn't the case, as they want the headline hit to be as great as possible.

joe6pack,

Headline yes, but this is the same pattern of PS3 sales seen in other locations. All the cutting edge and die hard fans buy the players, and then the sales drop. So, this pattern isnt too surprising at all.

joe6pack,

Headline yes, but this is the same pattern of PS3 sales seen in other locations. All the cutting edge and die hard fans buy the players, and then the sales drop. So, this pattern isnt too surprising at all.


No it's not. It's pretty obvious it would drop following a launch that supplied consoles to all the "cutting edge & die hard fans". Casual gamers tend to trickle in after.

The media loves to eat this kinda stuff up though. It's much easier to say "OMG launch a flop", than to include the fact that there was more than enough supply at launch & preorders for all, which eliminated the need for anyone to stand around at midnight waiting for a console.

every console experiences a drop in sales after the initial week. who amongst console fans doesn't know this information?

Here are a couple of interesting things I found:

Spain has sold 100,000 of its 110,000 PS3 consoles! (http://www.ps3fanboy.com/2007/04/02/spain-has-sold-100-000-of-its-110-000-ps3-consoles/)

According to vgcharts.org here:

http://vgchartz.com/euroyearly.php

the XBOX360 sold about 120k in Spain in all of 2006 and about 20k at the end of 2005 (when it launched). The highest I could find there for any year for the older XBOX was about 110k (in 2004).

--Darin

Here are a couple of interesting things I found:

Spain has sold 100,000 of its 110,000 PS3 consoles! (http://www.ps3fanboy.com/2007/04/02/spain-has-sold-100-000-of-its-110-000-ps3-consoles/)

According to vgcharts.org here:

http://vgchartz.com/euroyearly.php

the XBOX360 sold about 120k in Spain in all of 2006 and about 20k at the end of 2005 (when it launched). The highest I could find there for any year for the older XBOX was about 110k (in 2004).

--Darin

I wonder how big the price discrepancy was compared to the 360 launch. Either way that is pretty impressive, though I though the 360 would have done better in ALL of 2006 :confused:

PS3 hardware have dropped by 82 per cent
Link (http://www.dailytech.com/article.aspx?newsid=6763)

The entire article(with KOTAKU comment)

After kicking off launch week by setting records as the fastest selling console in the history of the United Kingdom, the PlayStation 3 suffered a bit of a setback, with sales down 82% for the second week after the system's release. The numbers come from prominent market research company Chart Track, which gathers data from a majority of UK video game retailers. The same company that released the 165,000 in two days figure last week.

It's an odd situation, really. It seems to be that most folks who wanted the console picked it up at when the system was first made available, and the normal post-launch buzz that gaming systems usually generate just isn't happening in the United Kingdom.

What really bothers me about this news is that SCEE, when contacted by GamesIndustry.biz, refused to comment on the situation. Is there any way to put a positive spin on this?

The entire article(with KOTAKU comment)

After kicking off launch week by setting records as the fastest selling console in the history of the United Kingdom, the PlayStation 3 suffered a bit of a setback, with sales down 82% for the second week after the system's release. The numbers come from prominent market research company Chart Track, which gathers data from a majority of UK video game retailers. The same company that released the 165,000 in two days figure last week.

It's an odd situation, really. It seems to be that most folks who wanted the console picked it up at when the system was first made available, and the normal post-launch buzz that gaming systems usually generate just isn't happening in the United Kingdom.

What really bothers me about this news is that SCEE, when contacted by GamesIndustry.biz, refused to comment on the situation. Is there any way to put a positive spin on this?


I don't think we can establish a trend from either the launch or the sales drop- it's too early to call. My prediction is that European buyers will behave no differently than NA and Japanese buyers have thus far. Demand will be stagnant until a price drop occurs.

I don't think we can establish a trend from either the launch or the sales drop- it's too early to call.

does not happen often but I agree. I think Darin hit it on the head. Do we know if you Europe (UK for example) got a large second wave? if not, there were still a few around after the first couple of days but they should be extreme rare or out right now.

does not happen often but I agree. I think Darin hit it on the head. Do we know if you Europe (UK for example) got a large second wave? if not, there were still a few around after the first couple of days but they should be extreme rare or out right now.

That is simply not the case. There is supply, but not the sales. Did you read the news?

Let's see...they sell 220k the first week, 40k the second week, and probably less than half of that number the third week until sales level off. From a business perspective these sales figures are not bad considering Sony is losing money on every sale, and the PS2 is still their bread-and-butter system for another year or two. With a significant drop in hardware/manufacturing costs expected down the road, Sony may be able to reduce the sales price by 20-30% by the end of the year...just need a few big games and a couple killer apps for the Christmas holiday. Price is still a major factor for many prospective buyers!

Personally, I love my PS3s...it's the only game console I've owned since the Atari 2600 and original Nintendo. However, I'm glad to see XBox360 and Wii doing well also (although the Wii is much more of a fad item in my opinion). There appears to be plenty of room in the gaming arena for several vendors...good thing since competition drives innovation. :)

The success or failure of the PS3 won't be known for many more months.

does not happen often but I agree.


:D

82% drop in one week. Gee. who would of thought that.:) And I guess this was expected and is also a good thing for BR.:)

It looks to me that PS3 did better than expected in EU - but is underperforming in US & Japan.

That is simply not the case. There is supply, but not the sales. Did you read the news?

yes I read the news, did you? do the math

220k shipped to UK, 165k in 48h that leaves 55k how many of those 55k shipped after the first 48h but before the next week? if that 165 goes to 185k (20k more) by the end of the week then 35 is roughly an 82% drop

http://ps3.ign.com/articles/778/778530p1.html

AU launch 27k in 10 days.

A couple of UK retailers have already dropped the price of the PS3 from £425 to £399. I still don't think it will change sales much though

Here are a couple of interesting things I found:

Spain has sold 100,000 of its 110,000 PS3 consoles! (http://www.ps3fanboy.com/2007/04/02/spain-has-sold-100-000-of-its-110-000-ps3-consoles/)

According to vgcharts.org here:

http://vgchartz.com/euroyearly.php

the XBOX360 sold about 120k in Spain in all of 2006 and about 20k at the end of 2005 (when it launched). The highest I could find there for any year for the older XBOX was about 110k (in 2004).

--Darin

Do you believe that report? Do you believe they sold that many to customers, (not to stores)?

I don't. That would mean they outsold France, and for a number of reasons, I don't think they did.

http://news.yahoo.com/s/nf/20070405/tc_nf/51279

New numbers cover nov - feb 07

wii 1.86 mil
ps3 1.10 mil
360 1.00 mil

The figures were compiled by the market research firm NPD Group, which provides market research information for various industries.

http://ps3.ign.com/articles/778/778578p1.html

Australian game charts. C&C3 takes the lead over resistance & MS (#2 & #3)

http://ps3.ign.com/articles/778/778578p1.html

Australian game charts. C&C3 takes the lead over resistance & MS (#2 & #3)

Ricky Ponting Cricket? WTF? LOL

Its the #1 360 game. HEHE :D

Gears is #3 :p

Ricky Ponting Cricket? WTF? LOL

Its the #1 360 game. HEHE :D

Gears is #3 :p


I have no idea. I've never heard of that game before. Guess they have different tastes? lol

Do you believe that report? Do you believe they sold that many to customers, (not to stores)?

I don't. That would mean they outsold France, and for a number of reasons, I don't think they did.I didn't check, but figured it was probably for a different period than the numbers for France I saw before that were under 100k. Maybe you have numbers for France that are for the same period of time that show a lower number than this report for Spain, but I don't know of any myself.

--Darin

In Germany, according to data released by the company media gontrol GfK (https://www.media-control.com/), approximately 62,000 Blu-ray Discs and about 34,000 HD DVDs have been sold in 2007.

The launch of the PS3 in late March was a big sales boost for Blu-ray: since it launched, about 57,000 Blu-ray units have been sold; in the same time 18,000 HD DVDs were sold

http://www.heise.de/newsticker/meldung/92095
http://www.areadvd.de/news/2007/200707/03072007002_BD_HD_DVD.shtml

Here's my summation:

Jan 1-Mar 22: BD 5,000 HD DVD 16,000
Mar 23 - now: BD 57,000 HD DVD 18,000

In Germany, according to data released by the company media gontrol GfK (https://www.media-control.com/), approximately 62,000 Blu-ray Discs and about 34,000 HD DVDs have been sold in 2007.

The launch of the PS3 in late March was a big sales boost for Blu-ray: since it launched, about 57,000 Blu-ray units have been sold; in the same time 18,000 HD DVDs were sold

http://www.heise.de/newsticker/meldung/92095
http://www.areadvd.de/news/2007/200707/03072007002_BD_HD_DVD.shtml

Here's my summation:

Jan 1-Mar 22: BD 5,000 HD DVD 16,000
Mar 23 - now: BD 57,000 HD DVD 18,000

Those are small numbers compared to the overall format war worldwide (particularly in the USA) but I wonder how many other countries in Europe are seeing similar trends. Collectively, Europe probably holds nearly as much purchasing power as the USA for tech toys.

What is more interesting is the flat HD DVD sales.

Jan 1 - Mar 22 is 31 + 28 + 22 = 81 days, or 197.53 discs sold per day.

Mar 23 - July 2 (date of article) is 9 + 30 + 31 + 30 = 100 days. Even if the data is perhaps a week old, that still gets us back to a figure of only 197.83 discs sold per day - basically no change at all.

Ricky Ponting Cricket? WTF? LOL

Its the #1 360 game. HEHE :D

Gears is #3 :p
It's probably the same game marketed in the UK as Brian Lara Cricket. The Australians are mad on cricket (and probably have the best team in the world) and Ponting is one of the all time great batsmen.

I'm English, so you can imagine how difficult it was to write the above paragraph. It's decent game, by the way.

Those are small numbers compared to the overall format war worldwide (particularly in the USA) but I wonder how many other countries in Europe are seeing similar trends. You can mark the UK down to mirror Germany to some degree. Uk retailers have been shifting shelf space from HD DVD to BD since the launch of the PS3 and my local major stockists have a give BD three times the shelf space compared to HD DVD.

Italy and Spain had sold more blu-ray players than HD DVD prior to the launch of the PS3 so logic says BD will be ahead in those territories too.

The only think stopping either format snowballing is the lack of HD sets in Europe, however, here in the UK, HD flat panels are taking over in stores so it's just a matter of time before they get critical mass.

On the plus side, both foramts were available to buy in my hometown within 6 months of their US launch, whereas I never saw a DVD over here until January 1999 (18 months after launch).

yeah it's certainly available earlier and is also more widespread (in mainstream stores) than dvd was at this stage of it's lifecycle. btw bd shelf space has expanded into hd dvd space, and also onto new aisles in the virgin in the centre of birmingham.