I am, still going strong, love the PIP feature, which the HR20 doesn't have.

Upgraded HD and 2 new tuners almost 4 years ago.

I'm really going to miss the UTV when I will eventually have to switch over to HD.

Anyone else still using UTV?

Right on into the ground. Since I don't see anything new coming to replace it, I'll stick with it until it fails or D* forces me to give it up.

Dittos to both of you.

I upgraded my UTV in the living room 4 years ago and have never regretted my choice of UTV over those "other" PVR's. I did add a fan mod which served for 3 years before I replaced it yesterday as a matter of routine maintenance.

The wife's UTV in the bedroom has not required any attention since day one. No drive upgrade, no fan mods - it just works.

Although flawed with poor tuner chips by design, they have braved 3 teen-agers, recorded 1000's of hours of preferred programming, and only missed a couple of critical scheduled recordings.

When I look at upgrading to an HR20 all I need to do is go to DBSTalk to remember why I haven't.

I want to say "THANKS!" to all of you who helped me decide to buy UTV from my local B&M store, helped me upgrade my HDD, helped figure out how to record only Monday Night Football, shared all of your findings on simple ways to cool the overheating tuner chips, and posted with so much enthusiasm about tremendously interesting UTV topics.

I realize many of those people are no longer with as as they have moved on to forge paths for those of us that will "ultimately" switch to some HD-PVR that really works (or they simply have no reason to post here now). But I know some probably still have UTV's doing their daily duty (backing up the continually failing HR20's). ;)

I hope my UTV lasts until D* decides to drop their programming for it. :D

I still have 4 activated and going strong with a couple of "parts" machines on the shelf and I plan on keeping them as long as I can. Of course I haven't gone HD yet either.


kazak

I did add a fan mod which served for 3 years before I replaced it yesterday as a matter of routine maintenance.
I'm curious to know how you did this fan mod? Do you have pictures? :D

And I take it none of you had Tivo? I never did.

Thanks

I'm curious to know how you did this fan mod? Do you have pictures? :D

And I take it none of you had Tivo? I never did.

Thanks
I gave my parents a standalone TiVo for their cable a couple of years back. It's okay, but I like UTV better. The keyboard is the most kick-a** part for me. With their model, they can have a 30 second skip forward like I do, but it has to be reset if the unit loses power (I do have both mine and theirs on UPS units). As a result, they just FF rather than dealing with the whole "backdoor code" thing.

My concern is the DVR companies seem to be working backward. Instead of capitalizing on the fact these things are mini-computers, they seem to be more concerned with limiting features to avoid lawsuits. The above mentioned skip forward is a huge example of a little feature that is greatly missed when you lose it.

The biggest thing I will miss from the UTV is the PIP feature, its great for sports. Dish Network and some cable companys have PIP (DN has side by side PIP now), and why DirecTv and Tivo didn't add this feature still puzzles me.

I am still running 4 upgraded UTV's and have no plans to change. I currently get HD OTA for free and am content with that.

I got my original utv which I upgraded when 100gigs was a big drive. I got another as a spare but quickly hooked it up to get 4 recordable streams. One of it's tuners went so I got 2 spare utvs for around $50 each. I replaced the one and so I now have 2 working, 1 spare and 1 more with 1 bad tuner.

What really amazes me is the hard drive in my first unit (100g) has been on 99.9% for nearly 6 years and has never stopped seeking (i can hear it). I have some ppv movies on it that are over 3 years old.

The way I see it, is if it ain't broke don't fix it.

Then again, I'm still running 2 computers with win2000 and they work just fine too.

Hd doesn't do much for me since I don't have (or want) a large screen tv. 27 in is enough for me.

Still running 4 UTVs and a DTivo. No plans to give up the UTVs. Been looking into a LCD HDTV... Don't see the need to get an HD DVR until it can provide similar features to my UTV.

I'm curious to know how you did this fan mod? Do you have pictures? :D

And I take it none of you had Tivo? I never did.

Thanks

I do not have pictures. There used to be some in the forum here, but I was unable to locate them in the archives. Perhaps someone else may know where to find them.

Here is the fan I used http://shop1.outpost.com/product/2974115?site=sr:SEARCH:MAIN_RSLT_PG (probably the same one mentioned by lgodave in this thread http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=790899). Don't bother with it unless it has Ball Bearings (I see there are 3 versions). I chose it because it was the simplest "case mod" without cutting any holes. Very simple to install and it has a molex connector that plugs into the HDD. I flattened out the tab used to hold it in a PC slot so it would mount flush to the vent behind the tuner chips. A couple of short sheetmetal screws through the UTV vent into the exhaust grill of the fan suspends it above the tuner chips. Just be sure to place the screws toward the ends of the grill and the fan side is face-down. I used to have tuner problems prior to installing it. I have not had problems since.

I have never owned TiVo, and do not plan to.

I have been using the same UTV receiver for four years and have had to get a tuner replaced once. I just bought another for a spare and to use in the motor home. I'll keep using them until they pry the 30 second jump button from my hand. We don't watch anything live anymore.
I found a variable speed USB fan to use for extra cooling. Power it from the UTV USB connectors. I lay it over the vents on top of the case on the left front. I just tape over the vents on the side just below to make it draw air in from the back. :)
USB Coolong Fan (http://www.etech4sale.com/Thermaltake_Technology_-_Thermaltake/A1888/partinfo-id-140981.html)

RE: twilburn's fan mod...

You don't have to use machine screws in the Fan. I've done that and I've also used Twist Ties (not the "weak" bread twist ties but stronger plastic ones used on extension cords (and other electronics) that hold up to some weight and won't deteriorate over time. ).

The Twist ties actually can provide a more flexible/quick install and leaves more vent holes open for ventilation. Use what you think is best.

I still have 4 UTV's going, two are down to one tuner only. I have 2 HR20's and as others have said the user interface really sucks. I will keep the UTV's until I upgrade each TV to HD!!!

I wish I could answer the original question... how many UTV customers are left.

When DTV dismantled the UTV group in 2004 there were only about 5,000 UTV accounts left. I don't know how many UTV units were built, but we could still probably get a good idea if we compared serial numbers. It was never a popular unit so I'd say maybe 10,000 were built, but I could be way off.

The UTV customer was more of a cutting edge group than the average DTV customer. If this demographic held true most of those same customers would have migrated to HDTV over the years and abandoned UTV.

If I had to bet on a number it would be that there are less than 2,500 UTV customers remaining.

I've been told by a reliable source that there's nobody left to develop any necessary changes to the unit. Most of the people that worked on the project have moved on to other things. One of the people involved said that they don't even know where the project code is... probably locked in a vault somewhere and the person that knew about it is long gone.

The last update a few years ago was due to some security issues. Chances are that there will not be any future updates since the learning curve to get new people involved in a dead project would cost more than to just kill the units.

UTV will remain active until there is a security issue. There was talk that DTV wants to get rid of all the older boxes that don't use the newer access cards... if that happens the UTV will be in that group.

I find it extremely unfortunate that in the history of DVR's the UTV is relatively unknown, but had one of the best user interfaces and feature group of any ever made. TiVo never matched UTV. The new DTV HDTV PVR's are terrible. They can't even get them to reliably do basic functions.

I don't remember what year the UTV was introduced, but in PVR terms it's ancient. Despite that fact there's still nothing better on the market.

-Joe

I am still using UTV in Florida. I absolutely love the skip ahead and go back buttons. My wife rarely watches TV in real time due to the availability of this feature.

I regret that Microsoft did not upgrade the computer aspects to accomodate a broadband connection. WebTV would be great for a backup internet connection with broadband. It would have kept UTV as a viable option.

We have just purchased a HDTV LCD (Vizio VX37L). The SD picture with the UTV is surprisingly good. If UTV had continued to evolve, HD capability would have no doubt been added. I will likely upgrade to a HR-20 when the SVM (single wire) solution is released; we would have to fish many wires down from the attic.

After a couple of problems early on, the UTV has been remarkably stable.

See inline corrections below:

===> When DTV dismantled the UTV group in 2004 there were only about 5,000 UTV accounts left. I don't know how many UTV units were built, but we could still probably get a good idea if we compared serial numbers. It was never a popular unit so I'd say maybe 10,000 were built, but I could be way off.

<=== DTV didn't dismantle the group as it isn't DTV's group to dismantle. Also, both figures are way low.

===> The UTV customer was more of a cutting edge group than the average DTV customer. If this demographic held true most of those same customers would have migrated to HDTV over the years and abandoned UTV.

<=== A good percentage remain.

===> If I had to bet on a number it would be that there are less than 2,500 UTV customers remaining.

<=== Way low.

===> I've been told by a reliable source that there's nobody left to develop any necessary changes to the unit. Most of the people that worked on the project have moved on to other things. One of the people involved said that they don't even know where the project code is... probably locked in a vault somewhere and the person that knew about it is long gone.

<=== That's untrue and silly. Of course most have moved on to other things but the code is available to those needing access to it and staff remains to maintain the product. Your source isn't as reliable as you think. Whoever your source is, please ask them to stop spreading untruths about UltimateTV.

===> The last update a few years ago was due to some security issues. Chances are that there will not be any future updates since the learning curve to get new people involved in a dead project would cost more than to just kill the units.

<=== Not true again. The last update included many useful new features.

Please note: I'm not at liberty to reply to questions about UltimateTV except to say that the product is supported by Microsoft.

I did get some more info:

UltimateTV was originally develped by WebTV before Microsoft purchased WebTV. The unit was developed in 1996 and 1997, but not announced until June of 2000 and officially introduced in March of 2001.

The UltimateTV group was never part of Microsoft other than ownership. It was always part of the WebTV group located in Mountain View, CA.

The UltimateTV "project" only lasted about 9 months. The UltimateTV group was disbanded in January, 2002. 168 employees were cut... most of them laid off, not merged into Microsoft. The director of the UltimateTV group still works for Microsoft, but few if any others remain.

What was left of the WebTV group took over support for UltimateTV. When the WebTV group was disbanded in June, 2002 the remaining 161 employees were laid off (all got notice one day with no warning). Keep in mind that UltimateTV and WebTV were never true Microsoft products. They were purchased and never enjoyed much support at Microsoft.

The XBox group took over the remnants of the WebTV group. This has shifted around a couple of times since... even the MSNBC group had it for a while, but UlitmateTV was never part of this. Microsoft dumped the entire project on DirecTV.

The contract between Microsoft and DirecTV required Microsoft to support UltimateTV. The UltimateTV support group was created at DirecTV. The Spring 2003 upgrade was the last (and final) UltimateTV update. This was done entirely by DirecTV with no involvement from Microsoft. Word has it that DirecTV did track down some former WebTV consultants for the minor upgrade.

Microsoft still holds the copyright to the UltimateTV name, but the service was tranferred to DirecTV in 2002.

There was apparently one person left at the DirecTV UltimateTV "group" until sometime in 2004. The date the group was disbanded is unknown to me. Today you're lucky if you can find anyone at DirecTV that even knows what a UTV unit is or does.

The hardware production run of RCA (Thomson) and Sony only lasted a few months. RCA had a very short run of units with a larger hard drive. The total production run numbers is unknown to me, but I still think 10,000 is a reasonable number. I've got about 5 of them and if I get some energy I'll see what the serial numbers tell me.

None of the above is to infer that UltimateTV wasn't a great product. I still use it and enjoy the units. I wish it had been further developed, but those days are long gone. The hopes for new developments or that there is a large userbase remaining is just foolish.

UltimateTV was never a popular product to start with. Those of us still using them are far and few between.

-Joe

I'm not trying to start a war so this last time I will point out the numerous errors in the below misinformation:

===> UltimateTV was originally develped by WebTV before Microsoft purchased WebTV. The unit was developed in 1996 and 1997, but not announced until June of 2000 and officially introduced in March of 2001.

<=== This is off by about 3 years. Also no Dish or DirecTV work was done before WebTV was purchased by Microsoft.

===> The UltimateTV group was never part of Microsoft other than ownership. It was always part of the WebTV group located in Mountain View, CA.

<=== What's the point? WebTV was totally integrated into Microsoft as any other wholly owned subsidiary is.

===> The UltimateTV "project" only lasted about 9 months. The UltimateTV group was disbanded in January, 2002. 168 employees were cut... most of them laid off, not merged into Microsoft. The director of the UltimateTV group still works for Microsoft, but few if any others remain.

<=== 9 months? Your own numbers don't add up. You say it was developed in 96 and 97 so evidently the entire group (168 people?) just sat around until 2001, when the product was finally announced. I suppose that's why the group was disbanded in 2002 then, right? In reality it took much more than 9 months to develop the product. I can't address the rest of this comment except to say that it is inaccurate.

===> What was left of the WebTV group took over support for UltimateTV. When the WebTV group was disbanded in June, 2002 the remaining 161 employees were laid off (all got notice one day with no warning). Keep in mind that UltimateTV and WebTV were never true Microsoft products. They were purchased and never enjoyed much support at Microsoft.

<=== Incorrect again. The WebTV group was not ever disbanded. The product became MSN TV and MSN TV2. See www.webtv.com, www.msntv.com or www.msntv2.com. You can walk into Best Buy and buy an MSN TV2 today if you like. These facts alone should demonstrate that your source doesn't know the facts.

===> The XBox group took over the remnants of the WebTV group. This has shifted around a couple of times since... even the MSNBC group had it for a while, but UlitmateTV was never part of this. Microsoft dumped the entire project on DirecTV.

<=== This is all fiction and totally false.

===> The contract between Microsoft and DirecTV required Microsoft to support UltimateTV. The UltimateTV support group was created at DirecTV. The Spring 2003 upgrade was the last (and final) UltimateTV update. This was done entirely by DirecTV with no involvement from Microsoft. Word has it that DirecTV did track down some former WebTV consultants for the minor upgrade.

<=== This is total fiction. All UltimateTV releases were developed by Microsoft. The 2003 upgrade had many useful features. See: http://www.ultimatetv.com/whatsnew.asp .

===> The hardware production run of RCA (Thomson) and Sony only lasted a few months. RCA had a very short run of units with a larger hard drive. The total production run numbers is unknown to me, but I still think 10,000 is a reasonable number. I've got about 5 of them and if I get some energy I'll see what the serial numbers tell me.

<=== Way low.

===> None of the above is to infer that UltimateTV wasn't a great product. I still use it and enjoy the units. I wish it had been further developed, but those days are long gone. The hopes for new developments or that there is a large userbase remaining is just foolish.

<=== The facts are that the user base is much larger than you describe.

===> I'm not going to follow up any further with this but I just wanted to attempt to put the many rumors and misinformation to rest. It is good to know that there are people out there who care enough about UltimateTV to dream up these long, convoluted but inaccurate stories.

<Signing off>

Rambo, I really hate to address you directly, but I'm forced to... facts are facts.

The UltimateTV service was announced on January 6, 2001 (cite www.ultimatetv.com/pr3.asp ) and the actual receivers hit the market in March 2001. The UltimateTV project was officially shut down in January 2002.

From the June 27, 2003 issue of the Seattle Times written by Brier Dudley:
"It's the company's largest staff reduction since it folded its Ultimate TV division in California in January 2002, cutting 168 jobs."

From the January 23, 2002 issue of WindowsITPro written by Paul Thurrott:
"The division's 500 employees (based in Microsoft's Mountain View, California, campus) are being reassigned; 168 employees face layoffs unless they can find work in other parts of the company. However, the Ultimate TV hardware group is joining the Xbox team, the Ultimate TV services group is moving to the MSN TV Services Division, and the Ultimate TV software group is moving to the Microsoft TV Division.

Ultimate TV reportedly attracted fewer than 50,000 subscribers, probably because it focused solely on DirecTV satellite service rather than the wider cable TV market. At the Consumer Electronics Show (CES) earlier this month, Microsoft representatives told me that satellite TV is more aggressive about rolling out new technology and thus made a better candidate for the company's initial release. In the year since Microsoft released Ultimate TV, however, the company was unable to secure any cable contracts, which could have dramatically increased its installed base."

My comments about the length of the project refer to from introduction to shut down. I did not include development since it was not developed by Microsoft (same with WebTV).

My source, who I consider to be of the highest authority... maybe THE highest authority on this subject, is the one that hinted at the production numbers. The "fewer than 50,000 subcribers" info that was published is true, but it was not near 50,000 either. I wouldn't drag him into this foolishness since the entire project is ancient history.

Your comments about WebTV, MSN TV and MSN TV2 refer to a hardware product. My comments refer to the PEOPLE that invented, developed and programmed the product. The hardware product evolved, but the people (and group) were dumped. This was all done at Mountian View which was abandoned.

I'm not even going to bring WINK into this... it would just confuse things, but if you want to know the real technology behind UTV you need to look at WINK.

So your claims of my statements being totally false (your words not mine) seem to be totally false in themselves. I think you must be some kid wishing UTV would come back to life, but it's not going to happen. Sorry.

So let's see some FACTS! You can type on some forum all you want about things being "totally false" but I deal with facts. When things are my opinon I state so... the facts are not my opinion and they remain fact even if you don't like it.

Did you know there was a HDTV UltimateTV box developed in 2001? Do you know where that box is? What happened to the .NET software version developed? Hint, hint, all three are real and are not at Microsoft. The story is very interesting, but too long to get into here.

-Joe

Surely you are insightful enough to know that you can't believe everything you read in the papers, especially when it concerns internal business decisions that are not required to be reported in detail to the public. Those stories got many of the details wrong, but if you read them closely you will find things that contradict some of the "facts" that you stated earlier in this thread.

Who is your source? I may know him! I can assure you that neither of us are kids. I just felt it necessary to challenge your "facts" as they are incorrect and potentially harmful to the UltimateTV business. Finally, I am not aware of any significant WINK link to UTV. To say it is based on WINK technology is exaggeration to the extreme.

It is likely you know someone who at one time worked in the UltimateTV group, five or more years ago. There were hundreds of employees, with varying degrees of knowledge on the many aspects of a very complex product/business. Your source, or your interpretation of what they told you, is incorrect on many of the points detailed above. I'm going to have to leave it at that.

<over and out>

Hmmm, I always thought that the original code or hardware or whatever, came from a replay tv box. I recall lots of people saying how they wished it had some such feature that was in the original replay tv.

On the dates, I definately recall 2 upgrades, and I am pretty sure they were a year apart. I bought my first unit about the time of my registering on this site (ha, I think I have the oldest date of anyone left on this board). I remember an update to 3.5 from my original which just added a few things, like manual record and a keep function. Then it was about a year after that one which is the 3.7 we have now.

I really can't recall any sat updates after 3.7. Not even some sort of fix, but my memory might be bad on this. I do know that it was an exciting time when 3.7 came out. I remember hoping there'd be another one a year later (it was around april if I recall correctly).

Put me down for having 2 UTV's still in service.

Well, for the record, I still own a UTV and have done so since the beginning. No problems.

As for the above discussion, it's absolutely fascinating information. I wouldn't have any reason to doubt the estimates and insights. This is because I recall hearing much of this at that time and is also consistent with some of the links below.

I'm certainly no expert in this matter and don't claim to have any insight. I do recall speaking with John Nicol, (head of MSN, which oversaw UTV) in December, 2003, for service.
http://www.microsoft.com/presspass/features/2003/may03/05-06msntv.mspx
He referred me to a Manager at the Mountain View location to assist me with service. In fact, I still have the E-mails saved, with his name and information (for what it's worth?).

I also remember when the founder of WebTV, Steve Perlman left:
http://www.net4tv.com/voice/story.cfm?StoryID=920

Other informative links:
http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?file=/chronicle/archive/2002/01/23/BU96979.DTL&type=printable
http://www.internetnews.com/xSP/article.php/127031
http://news.com.com/Microsoft+takes+direct+control+of+WebTV+businesses/2100-1040_3-244454.html

Ultimate TV was/is the best thing since sliced bread. When I went to satellite TV, I couldn't believe there was no PIP. PIP, "pausing live TV", and the ease/convenience of recording programming made UTV a must buy for me.

I did give it up for HDTiVO, but I still prefer the UTV. The only thing I like about the TiVo DVR is the remote is smaller.

I bought my Sony UTV in January of 2002. I was going to buy the Sony Tivo box for $50 less, but they were sold out and the sales rep gave me the same price for the UTV, $399 with $100 Sony rebate and $100 D* rebate. Best money I ever spent. How lucky was I that the Tivos were out of stock?

Still using that box, and I bought another off of ebay two years ago. Have not had anything go wrong with either unit, other than the pictograms on remote control skip buttons have worn off. Haven't made any upgrades, and I record ~50 shows per week. As long as D* isn't dicking with the datastream, it works flawlessly.

How can something that was developed so many years ago still have the best features and best user interface? If only someone could hack a HD tuner into this thing...

Still using 2 units - one with 2 tuners still going strong after an early repair, and the other with only one tuner still working.

I also have a DTV Tivo box and the more I use it, the more I love the UTVs.

How can something that was developed so many years ago still have the best features and best user interface? If only someone could hack a HD tuner into this thing...
I agree. The UTV is what, 6 years old now? And it still works great. The HR20 is 6-8 months old and its still having a lot of problems. Maybe its time for D* to realize that they can't build a DVR. If they don't want to go back to Tivo, maybe they should call Bill Gates up.

Remember, if it isn't broke, then don't fix it, or try to build your own. :D

As others have said... The more I've used DTivo the more I like my UTVs.

Just yesterday I paused a program and came back almost 2.25 hours later and it was all still in the buffer. My DTivo only allows up to 30 minutes (and usually "resets" at the start of new programs) so I was very happy to see that.

The UTV had gone to ScreenSaver and I'm curious if I'd have left it sit and "waited" for the UTV to run out of buffer how much longer it would have continued. Since the UTV's buffer is only suppose to be up to 2 hours... I was impressed it went over. (92% Full and running only one tuner (one cable run))

I've also been impressed with the UI. I can make setting modifications without interrupting recordings (My DTivo decided to "dump" 50 minutes of a program after I made a change to it's end time). I can pull up the guide without having to be flashed with Live TV... (In some cases a program I'm already recording/watching on delay)

Dtivo doesn't give me a Preview window when I'm trying to multi-task while watching a recording. I always get bombarded with "Live" programs when I'm trying to make a quick recording option or checking the guide for upcoming shows. Long live UTV.

Wow, what a bummer if you were recording a game and just to check out the guide it would go live with the game. I'd normally think this was operator error, but if lgodave says a dtivo actually does this, then I'd never get one untill they fixed that "feature".

I wonder if utv was written portably or if it was one of these systems with all sorts of "tricks" to make it work fast enough. Is it written at a high enough level that the UI layer could be ported.

Just because the UI is so clean doesn't mean the software is. The original mac UI was so good given it had a primative O.S. of the sort found in embedded systems that was a nightmare full of conflicts because it's O.S. never was intended for multi-tasking.

But, if suppose, this system was built clean and portable, then it sure seems a waste that they don't just dust it off and use it with the latest hardware. But there's probably an ownership issue as well.

The one thing that worries me though is that there's still one serious bug (runnaway FF) that smells like the code wasn't written cleanly, or they'd have been able to fix this given it was reported long before they folded up.

Wow, what a bummer if you were recording a game and just to check out the guide it would go live with the game. I'd normally think this was operator error, but if lgodave says a dtivo actually does this, then I'd never get one untill they fixed that "feature".
The DTV R15's and HR20's work the same way. There is nothing equivalent to channel 1020 -- no place to "park" and view your playlist. So if both tuners are active, you'll see one of those shows live in the preview window while you review your list of recorded shows or upcoming shows.

I bought my first unit about the time of my registering on this site (ha, I think I have the oldest date of anyone left on this board).
Okay, but I get 3rd oldest behind you and Kazak (at least on this thread) :). (My diminished level of posting probably counts against me though.)

The DTV R15's and HR20's work the same way. There is nothing equivalent to channel 1020 -- no place to "park" and view your playlist. So if both tuners are active, you'll see one of those shows live in the preview window while you review your list of recorded shows or upcoming shows.

Sorry to hear that... but it does sound like there have been some improvements made since my HDDVR2 (DTV Tivo DVR) roled off the line. I don't have a "preview" window displayed while looking at the upcoming recordings or my "Now Playing" list.

Okay, but I get 3rd oldest behind you and Kazak (at least on this thread) :). (My diminished level of posting probably counts against me though.)

It took me a whole nother year to find out where the cool guys hung out.
http://www.funfilesandsmiles.com/smileys2/discocrazedkris.gif

i've used mine for about 5 years, no problems. I've had 3 other boxes (plus windows media extender) but none do as much or as easily. it's worth it just for a usable 30 second skip

Two UTVs here still going strong. Both modded with 120 gig drives. I also have a DTivo HD, but the UTVs still get the most work from the family.

I took mine out of server right before Christmas. It still worked fine....just wanted more capacity and didnt feel like upgrading the hard drive on something I had had for so long (bought it in March 2002). I may end up putting it on eBay in the near future.

I worked for dtv and they gave me one for free when they first came out, and its still running strong.

I am the original owner of a UTV that was still working fine when I unplugged it about 3 years ago (switched to cable). I added the larger hard drive mod and it has a keyboard. I also have the original hard drive that came with it.

I'll sell it to the best offer in the next 10 days. Just PM me if you're interested.

Okay, but I get 3rd oldest behind you and Kazak (at least on this thread) :). (My diminished level of posting probably counts against me though.)

I'll have to bump you one. Still going strong with both tuners here although one tuner occasionally goes out, I just have to unplug the machine overnight (cool down) to get it back.

As 2009 approaches, it will be a sad day for all UTV users. The best user interface going down the tubes with no HD replicate in sight. Ouch! Don't miss HD as long as I have my UTV.
Love,
Mike

As 2009 approaches, it will be a sad day for all UTV users. The best user interface going down the tubes with no HD replicate in sight. Ouch! Don't miss HD as long as I have my UTV.
Love,
Mike
Why will it be a sad day in 2009? Are you thinking of the analog cutoff for OTA stations? That has nothing to do with UTV, it will still work, as the UTV already receives a digital signal from DirecTv.

Why will it be a sad day in 2009? Are you thinking of the analog cutoff for OTA stations? That has nothing to do with UTV, it will still work, as the UTV already receives a digital signal from DirecTv.

I doubt the UltimateTV will be supported by DirecTV in 2009. It is interesting to read this thread as I didn't know there were as many as several hundred UltimateTV users left. It was a nice PVR and along with ReplayTV forced TiVo to step it up. You guys are a tiny minority that actually preferred the UltimateTV. The Dishplayer from Microsoft has a similar number of users left with Dish Network. The HR20-700 works acceptably, don't be afraid to move up to HDTV. I didn't want to accept it but had to replace two HR10-250's to get DirecTV to pay for my move. I still had to pay $100 and although the HR20-700 isn't as good as the HR10-250, it is much better than I thought it would be. I agree the user interface isn't as good with the HR20-700, but you should be able to make it work well enough to be happy. The user reports that it is awful aren't fair in my opinion. It sure beats the Comcast Motorolla DCT6412III I use with Comcast HD cable.

Chris

No offense to anyone, but I'm just curious to know where you guys are getting this 2009 date from? I haven't heard anything yet saying that they will be shutting off the UTV stream. Is there an article or anythere somewhere about this?

Thanks

I'm not sure where the 2009 date came from either. I will be surprised if the UTV service is still going in 2009. There have already been several exceptions made for UTV regarding security updates, but I don't think there are enough UTV users to warrant further exceptions.

No offense to anyone, but I'm just curious to know where you guys are getting this 2009 date from? I haven't heard anything yet saying that they will be shutting off the UTV stream. Is there an article or anythere somewhere about this?

Thanks
The FCC mandated a date in 2009 for analogue OTA <what you receive with an antenna> to be converted to digital so that they could re-use the frequencies for other purposes. A lot off people think that means all channels will be HD.... untrue, it only means that people using an antenna will need to put a government subsidized box between their antenna and tv to convert the new digital broadcast back to analogue. What will this mean to satellite and cable viewers? Very little.

I've got 5 UTV's had os 3.1, 3.5 and 3.7
wouldn't trade em for anything out there
and yes I've tried Tivo

The 2009 date is just a guess when all UltimateTV's will no longer be in service, at least that is all I meant by my statement. It has nothing whatsoever to do with any mandated date by the FCC or any other organization.

Chris

UTV will be completely dead when DTV shuts down support of all it's other "old" DSS Receivers.

I'm fairly certain that units DTV subsribers have owned for over 10 years now are still operational. My Sony B2 (if I still owned it) a DSS unit made in 1996... is probably still able to function properly under current (and future) DTV revisions.

Just like my various Sprint PCS phones. I don't have a need for my various late 1990's models anymore... But they are functional. Sprint could discontinue support for these "early" models... But as long as the "network" can continue supporting them... Why cut them off? The market will decide when it isn't worth supporting things anymore.

Im till using this kind of unit

Hmmm, I always thought that the original code or hardware or whatever, came from a replay tv box. I recall lots of people saying how they wished it had some such feature that was in the original replay tv.
Actually, I believe the UTV runs what originally started out as Windows CE. If that's the case, it's the only device ever built that could successfully run that OS without crashing.

Also, if I have my facts straight, Microsoft originally planned on Windows Media Center being a successor to UTV that would not be tied to DirecTV. It would allow practically anyone buying a properly equipped Windows computer to have a DVR.

Unfortunately, with every provider offering some sort of DVR service (and cable companies practically giving them away) WMC really has no real use to most people. It's more of a toy than something you'd actually depend on for normal TV viewing. They also didn't count on most homes not wanting their computer to be in their living room. However, it was perfect for small apartments and college dorms.

It took me a whole nother year to find out where the cool guys hung out.
http://www.funfilesandsmiles.com/smileys2/discocrazedkris.gif
We found this place at the same time. ;)

BTW: Thanks for updating the FAQ. I kind of disappeared for a while when the only things being posted were "For Sale" ads and discussions about hacking the drives.

My UTV's are still going strong. I don't really remember when I first got mine, but I know it was at least back in '00.

WOW! I'm amazed this forum is still here!!! Anyway I have 4 RCA ULT tv's, 2 of them with only one working tuner & the other 2 with both tuners working fine. All 4 of them have been upgraded to 120gb HD & they are all well ventilated !! I am actually thinking of sending one of them to CCS to have the tuners replaced. I also have a 70 hr Tivo & as we all know there is no comparison between the two products. A couple of things about the "unacceptance" of the Ultimate tv by the general public was that at the time the ULT TV came out on the market I really believe that the average consumer just really didn't understand what these units were for or what they could really do. Also the price of these DVR's were (at least in my area) $399.00 for a 35 hour model & this was pretty steep for a product that few people really understood in the first place!! Anyway I'm with alot of you guys when you say you're hanging in there until the very end-besides my wife LOVES the way these things work & she continues to call the Tivo "prehistoric" compared to "her" Ultimate tv's!!! Take care everyone! Craig.

WOW! I'm amazed this forum is still here!!! Anyway I have 4 RCA ULT tv's, 2 of them with only one working tuner & the other 2 with both tuners working fine. All 4 of them have been upgraded to 120gb HD & they are all well ventilated !! I am actually thinking of sending one of them to CCS to have the tuners replaced. I also have a 70 hr Tivo & as we all know there is no comparison between the two products. A couple of things about the "unacceptance" of the Ultimate tv by the general public was that at the time the ULT TV came out on the market I really believe that the average consumer just really didn't understand what these units were for or what they could really do. Also the price of these DVR's were (at least in my area) $399.00 for a 35 hour model & this was pretty steep for a product that few people really understood in the first place!! Anyway I'm with alot of you guys when you say you're hanging in there until the very end-besides my wife LOVES the way these things work & she continues to call the Tivo "prehistoric" compared to "her" Ultimate tv's!!! Take care everyone! Craig.

What we all know is a minority of users preferred the UltimateTV. We also know that a huge majority that compared TiVo and UltimateTV preferred TiVo. Competition between TiVo and UltimateTV was good for the DirecTV product and competition between TiVo and ReplayTV good for the standalone product, but for the majority TiVo blew both of them out of the water while a small minority of course disagreed. All three products were very good and very good quickly during the early stages of PVR development. I certainly couldn't fault anybody for preferring any of them.

Chris

Tivo's name was a big springboard...Movie and TV stars were all talking TIVO,TIVO.....So the general public was drawn to that name,,,

Your right, the general public didn't understand DVR's....I was at the head of that line....

I remember being at Radio Shack in 99 or 2000 ,and being talked into buying one...I was using (still am a litle bit, Webtv) so I thought I would use the webtv capabilities of ULT too...That never worked out , but the wife also got on my case about why we needed this new big black box , when we already had the Direct tv and a VCR that would dod the same thing as the ULT...
It tookme a couple weeks to figure out how a DVR would improve my tv watching experience , and what all these people fawning over Tivo were talking about , but the real break through came when the wife discovered she could watch Oprah at 10:30 at night , and skip commercials......Then she was hooked ....And when that Ult lost the HD a couple years ago,,,,,life was torture till it got fixed...

Maybe the Ult and Tivo are like VHS and Beta......Beta was thought o be the better format, but VHS was marketed better...

The ONLY thing that that will sink my Ult days will be as Direct gets more HD channels.....And that will only be in the living room for now...

I bought a Tivo for my parents a couple months ago, and I felt like I was learning to walk all over again.....I guess if you only knew Tivo interface you would be fine , but I don't like it much at all.

For those of you who still have ULT, do you also have the new HR20, and if so, how do you like it, do you think its along the same lines as ULT?

Thanks

Speaking of VHS, I remember when I had like 4 or 5 VCR's with stacks of tapes next to them trying to record all of my shows, what a pain that was. Then along came ULT and that solved all of my recording issues, all of my shows recorded and were organized onto one unit. :D

For those of you who still have ULT, do you also have the new HR20, and if so, how do you like it, do you think its along the same lines as ULT?

Thanks

Speaking of VHS, I remember when I had like 4 or 5 VCR's with stacks of tapes next to them trying to record all of my shows, what a pain that was. Then along came ULT and that solved all of my recording issues, all of my shows recorded and were organized onto one unit. :D

No UTV here, but I have two HR20-700's. I like the DVR, it isn't similar to UTV, but I can make it work just fine for me. I find most other DVR's I have used, TiVo, ReplayTV, and UltimateTV better, but I don't care about anything other than reliable service and cost, I can make any of them work. I am happy with it. I also have the Comcast Motorolla DCT6412III and I like the HR20-700 better than that as far as PVR functionality. The fact the DCT6412III has firewire means I actually like it the best of all I have ever owned.

Chris

What I like most is the reliability of my utvs. Set it and forget it. I have some auto records that were setup 3 or more years ago (like NBA basketball which caught the entire playoffs). Some, I modify to choose only xxx rating during the offseasons, so it doesn't record things I don't want. 6 months later, I remove the xxx rating filter.

I guess I've just got so comfortable with them (I got 2 with a remote that can switch between them - and switch the video and audio at the same time - so it amounts to a 4 channel system) and have customized my remote that I really would hate to have to do it all over again. I'm too old to change now.

The name Tivo is like Zerox, it has become a verb. I think that has added to its success. But I'm always hearing about things like, they spy on what you do. One of my utvs isn't even attached to the phone.

The utv has held up really well given the last update was, can't even remember. If they could have tweaked a few more features, it would have been near perfect.

As to resolution, I have only a 27" sony tv, and I use s-vid connections. I guess for those with a gigantic set, you'd see lots of inperfections. I find real differences in the quality of the broadcasts. I wonder if this happens with hidef too?

But my vision ain't that good anyway, so I'm still quite happy with what I got. Besides, I mostly watch (more like listen to) sports while I surf the net on my laptop.

Ok, time to hit the 2 minute skip (programed remote to send 4 skips real quick), ok went perfect, took about 1/2 a sec to get over that annoying commercial. Compare that to 8 secs of slip.

***
The name Tivo is like Zerox, it has become a verb. I think that has added to its success. But I'm always hearing about things like, they spy on what you do. One of my utvs isn't even attached to the phone.

-> You just need to opt out...whether with DirecTV or with Tivo.

As to resolution, I have only a 27" sony tv, and I use s-vid connections. I guess for those with a gigantic set, you'd see lots of inperfections. I find real differences in the quality of the broadcasts. I wonder if this happens with hidef too?

I think it was last year when I started my HD move. I got 2 HD Tivos DVRs for DirecTV, and they're not all that bad. They have OTA tuners, and I can record OTA HD content in addition to DTV. The bigger the set, yes oh yes, the more artifacts you will see. From my experience, I really don't see too many artifacts with HD Content....every so often, but rarely. But SD content is almost always full of artifacts. Btw, I have a 61" Samsung 1080p DLP in the living room, a 42" Vizio LCD 720p panel in the bedroom, and a 37" Westinghouse 1080p LCD as my office TV/monitor. All three of these clearly produce artifacts when displaying SD content... <shrug>

This tread ran before..

I've been using UTV when they first came out +- a few months. Got a second a year later when the price wars between Tivo and UTV. I think I paid $100 for the second with a $50. rebate. The first was a tad over $400. I still have both and have gone through about three hard drives. Use ups on one not the other, they still get corrupted over time. Some times pulling the power is a good thing a I suspect the os does more testing from a cold boot rather. With ups os is always loaded but if you loose power it may not boot because I suspect it can't load the os from the drive. Just like any operating systems. I've resurrected some drives buy doing the swap forcing a format and os load via modem. But if the drive has problems it will usually fail again anyway. I've cleared the security bit and examined the drive with manufacturers diagnostics and they usually failed read or write tests.

It's probably easier and faster to just purchase a new drive. I don't keep much on my drives anymore if import enough I move them to dvd or record using Panny DVD recorder to begin with.


That's it ... not sure where will be going from here.

Enjoy
oth

My unit is one of the first one (I bought it like the week it came out). It is an RCA unit and it has been going strong since then. I did mod it up to a 120 gig harddrive, but then went and used the original hard drive in my server as the boot drive until it started to act up just a couple weeks ago (since put in a 160 gig mirrored RAID configuration to act as the boot drive). My unit originally had a Western Digital 40 gig hard drive model WD Performer 450AW "Home Entertainment Hard Drive". Manufacturer date of 26 Aug 2000 and a WebTV P/N 150-14543-021 (I have the harddrive right in front of me).

However, I am going to retire it and move onto HD. I have a brand-new HR20 "DirecTV HD Plus DVR" unit. I am awaiting install of the new dish. It actually kinda sucks as I've really did like my UltimateTV and it has served me faithfully these past 6+ years. However, it is starting to act up plus the modem recently got nuked (stupid me went and unplugged the unit, but did not think to also unplug the damn phone line when I left for Wisconsin this past month for over 2+ weeks.) I guess I better start dumping stuff I want to save onto my Pioneer DVD recorder's harddrive.

As for picture quality, the UltimateTV actually did look very good even on my big 55-inch Mitsubishi Diamond series TV. However, the TV does have a built-in digital tuner and after watching many programs on there, the HD does look friggan amazing. One of the reasons going with the HD DVR is that it will record programs off the tuner as well as the satellite, which will be nice. I hope DirecTV does come through with their promise this fall of "100+ HD channels".

It does suck that the DirecTV HR20 does not have PIP nor a "true" 30-second skip, but at the same time the damn DISH ViP622 does not have a "jumpback" feature either. Those are probably two or three features that I've used the most often, to the point that the little pictograph on those buttons on my remote are worn off! Speaking of remote, I've got a good look at the remote with the HR20 and I don't like it nearly as well as the one that came with the UTV unit. They got the "transport" controls (the play/pause/rewind/FF/skip/etc buttons) way up high on the remote that make them difficult to reach unless you hold the remote way up near the top, but that make it uncomfortable to hold it. If they switched the placement of the transport control buttons with those of the menu control buttons, it would be so much nicer. May have to go and invest in one of those "universal" remotes such as Philips Pronto, so I can program in my own button placements.

I like the idea of disconnecting/unplugging the UltimateTV before "turning it off" service-wise. I'll have to keep it hooked up in my setup, but not connected to the satellite so I at least can watch and dump off the programming that I currently have saved in it.

I have a couple of oneforall remotes.These babies are great. Since all my equipment is in another room, I use the model 9910 that has both ir and rf which lets me send signals from anywhere.

Also, I've totally re-programmed these units. There's a cable connection to the pc and freeware software for doing this. Most importantly, was I have the buttons where I want them, and can find them w/o looking. Also, I was able to clone my first one, once I got nervous as to how dependent I became on the remote. I also use a r/s video switcher to switch between 2 utv units and the oneforall is programmed to change both the video selector and change which utv setup to use (sat or aux) with one button push.

Overall, the best remote I've ever had. I got my second unit for $25 by searching the net.

So, if you really hate your new remote, I'd suggest you look into the

http://www.ofausa.com/remote.php?type=URC%209910

Put me down as having one UTV since the beginning, shipped off once to have the bigger HD and two new tuner chips put in, still running strong today. I also have one DirecTivo that I use as a backup upstairs when I need to record more than 2 programs at once. The thing I don't understand is how no one else has copied the interface of the UTV. It is more intuitive than any other interface I've seen on any DVR or HTPC solution. I've gone HD now, and I'm getting an HD DVR soon so i'm ready for the new HD channels in September, but I'm going to be sad to see the UTV go.

BTW, has anyone else had some weird glitches lately with resolving conflicts? I don't recall ever having a problem like this before a month ago, but twice in the past month, I've gone into the Upcoming Recordings screen to clear up a conflict, but when the time of the conflict came around, it recorded the wrong shows. When it happened once, I just assumed I messed up, but now that it's happened twice, I'm nervous that either the box is sick or D* is starting to pull support.

check history to see why it chose its action.

I haven't heard of this problem before. Hopefully Rocket's suggests gives you some clues as to the problem.

All of my UTVs (5 of them) are recording away nicely without issue.

So for the screwed up Conflicts problem. Could you clarify/detail it a bit more for us? You have say ABC/NBC/CBS Nightly News setup to record. You have a Conflict on 1 of the channels and you decide you want the "Conflict" (Will Not Record) program instead of one of the other two programs.

After the conflict is "resolved" the Upcoming Recordings should report an updated listing of which shows will/will not record.

Personally I prefer deleting Conflicts instead of using the Resolve Conflict interface since it doesn't give me a choice of all the conflicting shows (just two).

I have one that works, and another that doesn't (it's in the closet somewhere). A couple of weeks ago, I got HD and the DTV HR-20 unit. It has replaced the UTV in the living room. The HR-20 is OK... i can tolerate the 30 sec slip. Selecting items to record seems a bit awkward and convoluted compared to the UTV. I don't think the HR-20 knows that you have already recorded a certain episode of a program. So unlike the UTV, it clutters up the drive with the 5 recordings of the same episode that ran five different times in the last few days. I'm new to this device, to be sure, so maybe I just have yet to figure out how to prevent that.

My first UTV unit was bought in January 2002. During a storm in 9/02, it got fried. I sent it back to DTV to repair, and they sent back a broke one. I sent that back. Not sure how, but I still have the one I originally sent back. I don't remember how that got back to me.

Then in 12/02 or thereabouts, I walk into Circuit City and see for sale a brand new UTV all by itself for about 80 bucks. I grabbed it, bought it, and it is the one that I just switched out for the HR-20. It has never given me a problem. I had it stacked on some infant formula bottle caps for ventilation. (The infant is now 6 years old) I am putting it in the basement to go with a TV down there.

The one in the closet ( the first one I bought) has a couple of prized sporting events on it (eg IU's upset of #1 Duke in the '02 NCAA tourney). I'm not a techie, so if there is a way to get those events from that Hard drive to a DVD easily, I don't know it. I can always plug it in and watch it if I want to. For now, I consider it stored in "cryogenics" (lol) waiting for technology to offer an easy and very user friendly way to get those programs off the drive.

Or maybe I'll just sell it some day.

BayernFan,

Just buy one of those cheap stand-alone DVD recorders and copy your UltimateTV programs using the S-Video output. It is very easy and the results look great.

It also sounds like the UTV in "cryogenics" still has an Active Access Card (probably because it has been "offline" and hasn't gotten a "Deactivate" signal from DTV.

I was going to post that if the UTV needed temporary use of an "active" Access Card there is an easy way to "Swap" Access Cards between DTV Receivers by "Refreshing Services" via DTV's Online Troubleshooting Site. I tested that option a few days ago... and it took only a few seconds to have a "good" access Card marry itself to a "spare" UTV and allow me to check it's systems for issues/problems.

It also sounds like the UTV in "cryogenics" still has an Active Access Card (probably because it has been "offline" and hasn't gotten a "Deactivate" signal from DTV.

I was going to post that if the UTV needed temporary use of an "active" Access Card there is an easy way to "Swap" Access Cards between DTV Receivers by "Refreshing Services" via DTV's Online Troubleshooting Site. I tested that option a few days ago... and it took only a few seconds to have a "good" access Card marry itself to a "spare" UTV and allow me to check it's systems for issues/problems.
I wish D* would allow you to activate/de-activate receivers on their website like they used to.

I assume they still have an "activate" option... but I'd assume they'd HATE offering a "de-activate" option... :)

Also since DTV no longer offers a "buy to own" option... I assume they are taking more control of the activate/deactivate process.

I assume they still have an "activate" option... but I'd assume they'd HATE offering a "de-activate" option... :)

Also since DTV no longer offers a "buy to own" option... I assume they are taking more control of the activate/deactivate process.
No, they don't have either option now. Well actually, I know that they use to have and activate option, not so sure about deactivation. I don't see why at they can't do both.

No buy to own? You mean all these new dvrs are loaners only? Do they charge more for these with monthly charges? Or are you just supposed to return them if you leave dtv?

What about those old d-tivos, are they loaners too? Are they trying to phase them out as well? They were the only other 30-sec skip option as I understand it.

I'm "old school" so I may be totally wrong but NEW customers "Lease" their hardware (right?).

I've no idea how DTV's hardware is tracked/returned/etc. but I'd suspect it's better then how our own government tracks small arms in Iraq. Since each unit/contract has a price tag attached for early termination of agreement. Which I think at the moment is 12 months right?

Guess we need a DTV Newbie that just happens to read the UTV forum to clue us all in.

All new equipment is leased now. If you leave D*, you have to return the boxes, if you don't, you get charged full price for them, not sure what full price is. If you activate a new receiver, new customer or not, you will be committed to a new 2 year contract.

Holy Cow! Two Year Contract for adding a "new" receiver!? Particularly if it's an "additional" receiver that sounds crazy.

How about adding "old" receivers? No need to cover the "lease" of a receiver for two years. :) It's already bought and paid for...

Might have to give DTV a call on this.

Well its a sad day here in my house, I finally retired my UTV in favor of the HD HR20. With the new HD channels coming online I just couldn't justifying paying for both DVR services.

I will miss you UTV, farewell.......... :(

Bring on the HD! :D

The UTV was an exceptional DVR. Many that have switched to the HR20 have realized how good the UTV was. Things like the 30 second skip, auto-padding, actually recording what it's supposed to, and many other features are sorely missed.

Did you know that the UTV lives on in a new DVR? Yes, there is a UTV-HD in a way. The AT&T U-verse HD DVR is based off the old UTV! In reality not much is the same other than the core concept, but you can see the UTV roots in the U-verse HD DVR.

DirecTV has created a huge fiasco with the HR20, but the word is that DirecTV want's out of the DVR business and may be outsourcing the project. Hope that's true and we'll see some real progress on the unit. I think the hardware is OK, but the software still has a lot of problems.

RE: Adding "old" receivers.

Got a couple more UTVs in service on Monday. (total 6 UTVs, 1 DTivo) Ready for FALL 07! :)

No contract extension... but they were sticklers for paying the $20 access card fees (Being USED Receivers and all). But I did get them to "credit" it back as DTV Service Credit so I'm happy with that. It will pay back the card fees AND then some over the next 6 months.

The UTV was an exceptional DVR. Many that have switched to the HR20 have realized how good the UTV was. Things like the 30 second skip, auto-padding, actually recording what it's supposed to, and many other features are sorely missed.

Did you know that the UTV lives on in a new DVR? Yes, there is a UTV-HD in a way. The AT&T U-verse HD DVR is based off the old UTV! In reality not much is the same other than the core concept, but you can see the UTV roots in the U-verse HD DVR.

DirecTV has created a huge fiasco with the HR20, but the word is that DirecTV want's out of the DVR business and may be outsourcing the project. Hope that's true and we'll see some real progress on the unit. I think the hardware is OK, but the software still has a lot of problems.

I use two HR20-700's and I am not having any problems with the software. I certainly welcome improvements, but I have very few missed recordings and no greater problems than I have had with TiVo or ReplayTV. I don't like the software as well as I like the TiVo software, but I can make it work well enough to be complaint free.

Chris

RE: Adding "old" receivers.

Got a couple more UTVs in service on Monday. (total 6 UTVs, 1 DTivo) Ready for FALL 07! :)

No contract extension... but they were sticklers for paying the $20 access card fees (Being USED Receivers and all). But I did get them to "credit" it back as DTV Service Credit so I'm happy with that. It will pay back the card fees AND then some over the next 6 months.
I guess you don't have an HDTV yet? :D

DirecTV has created a huge fiasco with the HR20, but the word is that DirecTV want's out of the DVR business and may be outsourcing the project. Hope that's true and we'll see some real progress on the unit. I think the hardware is OK, but the software still has a lot of problems.
Think they may go back with Tivo?

I use two HR20-700's and I am not having any problems with the software. I certainly welcome improvements, but I have very few missed recordings and no greater problems than I have had with TiVo or ReplayTV. I don't like the software as well as I like the TiVo software, but I can make it work well enough to be complaint free.

Chris
I've only had the HR20 for a week, but I can say overall I do like it. It has come a long way since it first started a year ago, and thats one of the reasons I waited so long to get one, to let it get more stable.

I've never had Tivo, only UTV, so I can't comment either way on that.

But I do like the HR20.

I guess you don't have an HDTV yet? :D

I do have an HDTV in the Living Room... I'm sure DTV will make it harder and harder for me to ignore it's increasing HD Channel selections... But "ignorance" is bliss as they say.

When I installed the HDTV I tried using some "Rabbit Ears" to get some local broadcast HD channels... Got a taste of CBS-HD,PBS-HD, and others. I did like PBS's feed. I could certainly "SEE" the difference. A friend with HDTV, didn't need any "special" HD Antenna... just used an set of "Rabbit Ears"... That approach doesn't work for me (constant tuning needed)... so I might look into ramping it up a bit.

Next opportunity for an upgrade I'll be sure to have DTV send me an HD DVR. Until then I'll pay for a decent pair of "Rabbit Ears" and save the ($9.99 a month?) HD Channels fee.

I do have an HDTV in the Living Room... I'm sure DTV will make it harder and harder for me to ignore it's increasing HD Channel selections... But "ignorance" is bliss as they say.

When I installed the HDTV I tried using some "Rabbit Ears" to get some local broadcast HD channels... Got a taste of CBS-HD,PBS-HD, and others. I did like PBS's feed. I could certainly "SEE" the difference. A friend with HDTV, didn't need any "special" HD Antenna... just used an set of "Rabbit Ears"... That approach doesn't work for me (constant tuning needed)... so I might look into ramping it up a bit.

Next opportunity for an upgrade I'll be sure to have DTV send me an HD DVR. Until then I'll pay for a decent pair of "Rabbit Ears" and save the ($9.99 a month?) HD Channels fee.
Just curious, have you thought about putting up an outside rooftop antenna? That would really help you get the local channels in HD.

D* will be adding a whole bunch of HD channels this month, it'll be interesting to see how that goes.

After 5 years I am finally switching to Verizon FIOS TV so I can get HDTV. I have a tree issue getting to the HD sat and I have finally decided to make the switch. The cost of the new HD Tivo put me over the top. At $299 (and less if you look hard enough) it wa a no brainer. I've also been losing my D* signal almost every time it rains which never happened before and I believe I make have a new line of sight issue due to neighbor's trees.

I will be retiring 3 UTVs, all of which have been upgraded with bigger hard drives and one that is still in use (the other two had some issues and I replaced them with Direct Tivos).

Over 5 years later and the UTV interface is still the best out there. What a great product. It's a shame Microsoft didn't have the foresight to stay with this product. I think had they gotten to market before Tivo that they would have had a much larger market share and possibly would still be in production today.

Anyone interested in 3 UTVs??

Just curious, have you thought about putting up an outside rooftop antenna? That would really help you get the local channels in HD.

Check. One "Roof" antenna in the attic space (with Rotor)... But after 10 years of DTV... Some rewiring (UTVs are wired for "Whole house" access) and moving some insulation (to allow full 360 movement) is in order.

The Antenna (although old) should work... but "sharing" the runs with DTV (via Multi-Switch) I think may be degrading the HD feed... along with various wiring issues and it's aim. So maybe an exclusive run direct from the antenna might be a good option.

The "Rabbit Ears" option seems good to me only in simplicity... A bit of work and I should get "FULL" Broadcast HD.

just another history note... until spring 2005 DTV had refurbished units to provide through the warranty plan (5.99/month) ... when they ran out, I ran over to Dish which had a big tech lead IMHO which DTV has finally caught up with so now I'm back to DTV... Does that make me a whore?

My two RCA DWD490RE UTVs were repaired/upgraded by CCS earlier this year. Now both have Maxtor 160GB drives in them.

I mainly sent them out for the bigger drives, the only repair issue was the modems in both units had been fried due to electrical storms in my area. Due to frequent pop-up storm activity where I live (near Atlanta, GA) I no longer leave them connected to the phone line, rather I plug them in periodically overnight when I think of it, and there are no storms forecast, so they "phone home".

A tech at DTV told me unless I ordered Pay-Per-View programming, this would never be an issue anyway. I never order PPV stuff. I do have MLB Extra Innings but I've never had an issue with that package even if the units had not called home in many months, so I think the "sports subscription requires a phone line connected all the times" is pure BS. (DTV sort of admitted it was).

I will stick with the UTVs for as long as they can be maintained/repaired and DirecTV supports the service.

As for the "maintained/repaired" aspect...

As long as CCS and others are available (along with parts) with the knowledge to repair the common UTV problems (and future wear and tear issues). UTV can live on...

It's just a matter if DTV will offer the updates and service over say the next 10 years or so to keep them Active. There are probably a lot of early generation DTV/USSB DSS Receivers out there that are still trucking on... when those are phased out UTV's active life is probably over.

Am still a UTV user. Just checked in to find out about my v.28230 upgrade recieved on 9/11. Any of you guys also happen to be "Ham Radio" operators?

Any of you guys also happen to be "Ham Radio" operators?

Me, me:D


kazak

My two RCA DWD490RE UTVs were repaired/upgraded by CCS earlier this year. Now both have Maxtor 160GB drives in them.

...

so I think the "sports subscription requires a phone line connected all the times" is pure BS. (DTV sort of admitted it was).



I just put in a 160 after the 3.8 upgrade got me tinkering again. Love that 110 hours!

I know that my one unit attached to a phone line only calls out if I had ordered a PPV. I have vonage, and it records all phone calls made and I could see when it would call. It uses only the touch-tones to communicate, as my vonage service can't handle a modem connection. I don't know if that even uses a modem or what, did you try the system test with a phone line hookup?

kazak

I am an "all band" operator plus "Echolink" node# 146625

Lets hook up one night

Figured it's been rather quite here.

Were have all the UTV users gone? Are they just "happy" with their UTVs and no need to complain or comment?

Have they been upgrading? What is DirecTV's current offering of DVR units? I hear a new DirecTV/Tivo DVR is on the way for 2009... anyone holding out for that? My last experience with DirecTV DVRs haven't been good compared to Tivo which I've also got concerns with... For us "holdouts" some tips on what our options are might be nice.

I'd suspect HD has been chipping away at UTV retirements to secondary status or the storage shelf.

UTV tuner deaths might be another.

The growth of SATA Hard Drives and reduced availability/price of PATA/IDE Drives maybe?

It's getting lonely on here. So I've been keeping busy on the local HDTV and CECB OTA forums following the Odyssey of the DTVPAL and it's fellow models (TR-40 and the new DTVPAL+). Wished I'd have waited for the DTVPAL+ since I live in a Fringe area and could have used the "stronger" tuner.

Long live UTV. :)

Dave

Hi David.....


I still get my notifications when someone replies to an old thread, brings back memories.

Boy do I miss the good 'ol days...Kazak, NlogN, you, Hal>>> hahaha!
Always new things to try, and tricks to help people out.
Between playing with UTV's and doing the unmentionable to HU's, it was a blast

I still have 4 UTV's piled up beside my desk. Keeps it alive for me. I can't bring myself
to remove them.
Since I don't get to watch very much TV these days, it's a BELL HD PVR for me.
Canada is slowly catching up.

I retired my UTV a year ago when I upgraded to the HR20 and HD. I just couldn't see paying 9.95 a month for the UTV service and the 4.95 a month DVR fee. I haven't had any issues with mine.

I retired my UTV a year ago when I upgraded to the HR20 and HD. I just couldn't see paying 9.95 a month for the UTV service and the 4.95 a month DVR fee. I haven't had any issues with mine.

I'm trying to remember what DirecTV HR I tried for a day or two. HR15 maybe?

Larger Hard Drive but I don't think it had a 30 sec skip (30 second slide I think). GUI wasn't to my liking and the UTV it was going to replace started behaving again... So it went back to DirecTV.

Yep, I should seriously look into the fees I'm paying DTV. Still have the protection plan, UTV and Tivo service fees, along with all my mirror receiver fees. Got a few UTVs that have been "offline" for a while... Should seriously consider deactivating them. (Had one up for Summer Olympics, then unplugged it until yesterday... Fall TV '09 is finally swinging into gear and need the space.)

I'm trying to remember what DirecTV HR I tried for a day or two. HR15 maybe?

Larger Hard Drive but I don't think it had a 30 sec skip (30 second slide I think). GUI wasn't to my liking and the UTV it was going to replace started behaving again... So it went back to DirecTV.

Yep, I should seriously look into the fees I'm paying DTV. Still have the protection plan, UTV and Tivo service fees, along with all my mirror receiver fees. Got a few UTVs that have been "offline" for a while... Should seriously consider deactivating them. (Had one up for Summer Olympics, then unplugged it until yesterday... Fall TV '09 is finally swinging into gear and need the space.)
You probably had an HR20 or an R15 (SD version), there is no HR15.

I have the HR20 HD DVR. It has come a LONG way since it came out 2 years ago. It now has true 30 second skip. For me it seems faster then the UTV was, especially for searches, it has triple tap on the remote, like a cell phone, to type words in.

I've never had any major issues with mine, it records everything I tell it to.

Checked back on the threads. It was an R15.

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=858862&page=2


As I mentioned earlier... DTV and Tivo are developing a new DVR and I'm interested in seeing what that is going to offer... An HD setup upgrade might not be far in the future for me.

Sony UTV bought July 2001 replaced hard drive with 120GB shortly thereafter. That drive was replaced earlier this year after the whining noise became too loud. Tuners were replaced this year (thanks to CCS).
Unit is running strong. I even log on to WebTV just to see if it works.
This is now the oldest consumer electronic device that I am using on a regular basis. I have a Sony Beta VCR still hooked up to my entertainment center but haven't put a tape into it in a long time.
I havent seen any similar device demonstrated that works as well as UTV. But I am probably not a neutral observer.

Sony UTV bought July 2001 replaced hard drive with 120GB shortly thereafter. That drive was replaced earlier this year after the whining noise became too loud. Tuners were replaced this year (thanks to CCS).
Unit is running strong. I even log on to WebTV just to see if it works.
This is now the oldest consumer electronic device that I am using on a regular basis. I have a Sony Beta VCR still hooked up to my entertainment center but haven't put a tape into it in a long time.
I havent seen any similar device demonstrated that works as well as UTV. But I am probably not a neutral observer.

That the UTVers I'm thinking about. Basically my UTVs have been trouble free for 6.5 years now and besides the "help" I've gotten from the forum about upgrades and PM/Repair options... The UTVs haven't need much attention. Keep it up.

I've still got 2 UTV's in service. One of mine just had a tuner go down. Not sure if I will search for another one to swap it out with or not. I don't use that receiver much anyway.

I'm got the buy a 60+ inch tv bug biting me. Along with a dose of call DTV and get a HD-DVR set up heading this way. I've been pleased with my old 36" Toshiba CRT tv so far. I've seen lots of HD set ups and they don't look night and day better then my current set up. It's going to the larger screen that will warrant the HD upgrade though.

Good to hear you've had no problems lgodave. Over the years, I've had 3 tuners fail, 1 drive fail and one board failure due to a lightning hit. All easily replaced through eBay and this forum.

Since 4/15/02...
Two UTV "failures" (Tuner Death). One of those (My last retail UTV purchase in March 03) was replaced with a HDVR2/Tivo in Summer/Fall 2003. My primary Sony UTV (A CC "reconditioned" display/demo model) has had it's tuners replaced by CCS. Some flakiness over the years has required me to install an internal Blower Fan which has kept it happy for the most part.

Had a 160GB Seagate Hard Drive failure when upgrading my Tivo (which lucky me Seagate had switched to a 5 year warranty... Good till 2010. Seagate's 160GB replacement went into the Sony. I picked up a 250GB WD for the Tivo.). Can't say I've had any hard drive failures in any of my UTVs. My 80/120 upgrades have all been humming along nicely and the tuners on those units have been fine. Might be because they are elevated on caps and in the basement where the temp is usually around 55F. No added fans for those.

I haven't had much "luck" with Ebay and for sales from this site... until recently at least. Many of those had dead tuners (which I wasn't made aware of) and/or had drive/power up issues... So those usually weren't in service and are just parts machines.

Wow, reading this thread is like a class reunion. I also still have UTVs in service...at last count 4 of 'em, having just recently retired one. I also have 2 DirecTivos in use, and am now the owner of 3 DTV Dvrs (a 20, 21, and a 22, if I remember the models correctly).

I got my first UTV from my wife as an anniversary present in April of 2001. I had joined these forums just a few months earlier. My wife still says that UTV is one of the top 5 pieces of technology in the house (and believe me, she's been exposed to a crapload of gadgets over the years). I'd pretty much agree with her on that.

I've done the hard drive upgrades on all but 1 (the recently retired unit), and I'm pretty sure at least 3 of the remaining 4 got loving care at CCS at one point or another.

I'm gradually doing the HD switchover...very interested in SWM since as you might imagine, with 9 DVRs, the multi-switch and wiring poses a challenge.

As yes, I'm still in love with the UTV interface. Nothing, and I really mean nothing, IMHO has ever come close to it.

Charles

My UTV is still going strong along side my new HR21. I still use it to record the occasional SD program and as a backup for "must see" shows. It's saved me from missing at least a few shows that the HR21 failed to record early on. It's been a lot better recently, though.

I've been very happy with the latest HR21 software other than the search function. I loved being able to set up title searches to record on the UTV, even if the shows weren't yet in the guide. It made getting ready for the new Fall lineup so much easier. That's another reason I still keep the UTV going. I just have it set to keep no more than a couple of episodes of each show, so they'll roll off automatically if I don't need to watch them (as in they're in HD on the HR20). Of course, it's always nice to have an extra couple of tuners for busy nights.

If they were to ever make an HD version of the UTV, I'd get one in a second - especially if it had broadband and remote scheduling support.

Right now, it's a team effort between the two DVRs.

My UTV is still going strong along side my new HR21. I still use it to record the occasional SD program and as a backup for "must see" shows. It's saved me from missing at least a few shows that the HR21 failed to record early on. It's been a lot better recently, though.

(Clip)

Of course, it's always nice to have an extra couple of tuners for busy nights.

If they were to ever make an HD version of the UTV, I'd get one in a second - especially if it had broadband and remote scheduling support.

Right now, it's a team effort between the two DVRs.

I've found that to be true about my DTivo... It's currently a "backup" of my UTVs and it does tend to "miss" programs the UTV will catch... OR it will record a bunch of repeats (deleting "new" content) that the UTV is "smart" enough to not re-record. The Colbert Report is a good example... CC repeats the previous day's show like 3 times and my DTivo tends leave me with 4 records of the same show...

Got to love having more tuners then you need at any one time... I'm thinking it might be good to move a UTV upstairs to "backup" my Primary UTV. It's becoming too common, where I want to record a few shows and I still want to channel surf...

I still have 2 utv's in service. However, I am gradually shifting away from using the utv's to watch the shows - mostly I use the utv for watching sports only, where the 30 second skip still rules, and use my pc to watch the others after doing a capture and ad removal.

For those that might be interested, here's my video processing procedure:

I have developed a somewhat pain free method to capture these onto one of my pc's where I then have a number of scripts that I use to remove commercials. Then I play them back on my laptop connected via s-video to my TV using the vlc media player. The files remain on my desktop PC which serves the files to my laptop using a standard windows file share. These are sent over my linksys wireless network which surprisingly is fast enough. VLC has a nice cropping function so I can get rid of the noise that DTV puts in the first 5 lines of a video (some sort of control info that normally is not seen on a regular TV, but is visible in a captured video file).


What I am thinking about is how to get some sort of DTV dvr that lets me transfer files over my network, since the biggest headache is to capture a show. This, with a utv, takes a full playback time. So, to transfer 1 hour takes an hour to capture, then about 15 minutes to send over my network to my video processing system. Ad removal takes another 10 mintues or so.

My scripts use the video-redo shareware program to transfer the file across my network onto my big desktop machine and cleans up the video a bit during the transfer. Then I run video redo's ad detective, and also run comskip, a free commercial removal program.

I wrote a script that lets me place the output windows (with scenes to delete) from both programs sort of on top of one another so I can see in a flash if they both agree with where the ads are. If they do, I accept the results, which usually work quite well. If they don't agree, it's easy to see and I then do a manual edit pass to fix up any mistakes they make. Usually one or the other of the programs remove the ads quite well.

BTW, the most accurate way to tell where commericals end is that there is almost always now a tv rating block in the first few seconds after a commercial ends. For the beginnings, there's a fade to black which is easy to see by eyeballing it. Both programs are adept at finding the black frames that are there between show and commercials.

Anyway, once you get addicted to watching shows, like heros' or any movies on FX, tbs, AMC, etc. with all the commercials edited out, it makes even the 30 second skip button seem to be a lot of trouble.

But for ease of setting up recordings, I still like the UTV the best. But I can see a day in the future where I will probably go the beyond tv route or some other similar system.

Not me.

i like my UTV

I haven't looked here since I moved on from my UTV. Surprised to see a few of you's still here. I moved to a Tivo HR10-250 (crappy box for the most part), to a HR20-100 (better, but the video card crapped out), and now I have a HR22-100 (pretty much the same, but operating correctly, so far.) If the UTV was HD, I never would have left. Still the best OS of all the boxes I've had.

Still have 3 running here... and as other have mentioned.. still the best interface there was..

but with the tv's getting switched over to flat lcd's... it won't be long till they are all shut down..

Any decent upgrade offers?

Still have 3 running here...
but with the tv's getting switched over to flat lcd's... it won't be long till they are all shut down..


The "trick" I've found is not to use the HD feed (OTA) as much on my HDTV... and avoid comparing it to my SD feed from the UTV. :) It really is no comparison...

Sort of tricks your mind into thinking it's "great" when it really isn't... Just like how I use the "OK" Coaxial feeds on most of my TVs where A/V or S-Video are better. I suspect there will be plenty of folks next year using "SD" Converter Boxs that will be using my "logic". It's better then Analog but not as good as true HD, but if you don't care to compare to much... all is good.

Still have 3 running here... and as other have mentioned.. still the best interface there was..

but with the tv's getting switched over to flat lcd's... it won't be long till they are all shut down..
I never thought I would this, but the HR's have come a long way in the last 2 years and I find them to be a bit faster at doing things then the UTV.
Any decent upgrade offers?
You should give them a call and see what they can for you.

The "trick" I've found is not to use the HD feed (OTA) as much on my HDTV... and avoid comparing it to my SD feed from the UTV. :) It really is no comparison...

Sort of tricks your mind into thinking it's "great" when it really isn't... Just like how I use the "OK" Coaxial feeds on most of my TVs where A/V or S-Video are better. I suspect there will be plenty of folks next year using "SD" Converter Boxs that will be using my "logic". It's better then Analog but not as good as true HD, but if you don't care to compare to much... all is good.
Not quite sure what you mean here, but ok. An HD picture is way better then any SD picture I've ever seen.

Not quite sure what you mean here, but ok. An HD picture is way better then any SD picture I've ever seen.

To put it simple... Think of SD UTV feed as Analog OTA. HD as well HD OTA... You know HD is better picture then SD... but you try not to compare them much... SD is "good" and you're happy not to spend the extra $10 plus hardware/setup a month to provide HD to your HD set. (Odd I know considering the $10 UTV fee, Tivo/DTVDVR fee,Mirror fees, etc. I'm already paying...)

If when the rest of the TVs get upgraded (probably not for a long while) I might understand the desire to upgrade...

I guess until you get an HDTV and compare it to SD you'll be better able to "fool" yourself. So I'm "fooling" myself with my Eyes Wide Open.

I agree that ignorance is bliss. If you don't expose yourself to the HD signals, they won't be your reference. And also, you won't see how many zits, scars, warts and wrinkles that the average 'celebrity' has (not fun to watch while eating).

Another alternative is to buy a HDTV 37" or below, and read the reviews for claims about excellent SD performance through the s-video inputs. Some HDTVs do a much better job with SD than others.

I agree that ignorance is bliss. If you don't expose yourself to the HD signals, they won't be your reference. And also, you won't see how many zits, scars, warts and wrinkles that the average 'celebrity' has (not fun to watch while eating).

Another alternative is to buy a HDTV 37" or below, and read the reviews for claims about excellent SD performance through the s-video inputs. Some HDTVs do a much better job with SD than others.

But the problem is that I don't want/need a complete TV, I only want a monitor. When I look at the prices, hdtv's are very expensive (at frys say) while computer monitors, of a decent size, say 25"" are as little as $400. That would be way good enough for me, except, these don't have s-video inputs.

I wonder, is there a cheap converter to take s-video and change it to pc analog or digital so it would play on one of these?

But the problem is that I don't want/need a complete TV, I only want a monitor. When I look at the prices, hdtv's are very expensive (at frys say) while computer monitors, of a decent size, say 25"" are as little as $400. That would be way good enough for me, except, these don't have s-video inputs.

I wonder, is there a cheap converter to take s-video and change it to pc analog or digital so it would play on one of these?
The converter would cost more than the TV.

You can get a 25" LCD HDTV for under $400. Saw at least 3 at that pricepoint at Walmart just a few days ago - and that was regular price. You can get in the 30" range for around $500 - and some of those come with RGB inputs, so you could use them for both TV and the computer.

I haven't looked here since I moved on from my UTV. Surprised to see a few of you's still here. I moved to a Tivo HR10-250 (crappy box for the most part), to a HR20-100 (better, but the video card crapped out), and now I have a HR22-100 (pretty much the same, but operating correctly, so far.) If the UTV was HD, I never would have left. Still the best OS of all the boxes I've had.

I'm debating a move from UTV to HD still. I have a HR10-250 available to use OTA, and maybe on D*, on a new bedroom HDTV after I would get a free HR2x for the family room. Does that old unit access all the D* channels and programing content? I can't find much on this site, and I know nothing about MPEG-2/-4 encoding.

Yes, I know I'll need a new access card, but I'll try whining and groveling, known also as haggling.

Thanks for your time, Bob

I'm debating a move from UTV to HD still. I have a HR10-250 available to use OTA, and maybe on D*, on a new bedroom HDTV after I would get a free HR2x for the family room. Does that old unit access all the D* channels and programing content? I can't find much on this site, and I know nothing about MPEG-2/-4 encoding.

Yes, I know I'll need a new access card, but I'll try whining and groveling, known also as haggling.

Thanks for your time, Bob
The older boxes will continue to get the MPEG2 SD channels from 101/110/119. It will not pick up any of the new MPEG4 HD channels, you will need a new receiver for that. Your HR10-250 will be able to pick up the few MPEG2 HD channels, but those will be going away soon.

If you want even more information, check out this site. (http://www.dbstalk.com/)

The older boxes will continue to get the MPEG2 SD channels from 101/110/119. It will not pick up any of the new MPEG4 HD channels, you will need a new receiver for that. Your HR10-250 will be able to pick up the few MPEG2 HD channels, but those will be going away soon.

If you want even more information, check out this site. (http://www.dbstalk.com/)

Thanks for the link... Just used my Protection Plan this afternoon to replace one of my UTVs that has decided it wanted to delete recordings/lockup/reset/have sluggish remote response plus a dead tuner...

DirecTV anticipates sending me an R15 or R16 replacement hoping the link will get me up to speed just like this site has for nearly 9 years now.

After the "new" receiver gets installed I'll still be running 5 other UTVs. Still haven't found a DirectDVR yet that offers PIP, 30 second skip (default), and 300X FF/Rewind.

hi ive had one now for ten years and i love it still. i also have replaytv and hr20-700. the latter cant perform nearly as well. i replaced the hdd with a 750g one and its flawless. the first one went bad in 2006 and i put in the new one in 2009 and reactivated it. the webtv part works too but most websites require more memery than its got and dont look right. i love the search features. no new units can come close. the tivo functions are slso much better than the others. these are the best ever made even better than tivo the companys sets. dan :D

Had to cancel service on my beloved SAT W60 after nearly 10 years. I just couldnt stomach DirecTV raising rates again (third annual raise) with no added value. Lost complete seasons of recorded shows within minutes of the phone call. They even asked for the smart card back. I installed larger HD twice to quiet the impending failures and replaced the tuners two years ago. Other than that it performed beautifully - really hate to give it up.

Replaced with a Dell Media Center computer (Windows Media Center has many simularities with UTV) and getting over the air local channels. Added an Apple TV for streaming. Hope HBO extends their streaming service to non subscribers soon! No $130/month DirecTV bill has already paid for the replacement.

I was contemplating a move to HD anyway but DirecTV forced my hand.

UTV was ahead of its time.

Tinkerin,

Sorry to hear about your bad experience with DirecTV. If they'd let you keep the Access Card and it'd been "offline" (and stayed off the Sat afterward) when you called you'd have still had access to your recordings. Might have given you at least a few days to dump the recordings to Tape/DVD before needing to send back the card.

Appreciate the heads up on the Windows Media Center (UTV similarities). I picked up a DTVPAL DVR which I've used very little but seems like a rather nice Standalone... Basically a glorified OSD/Program Guide activated VCR.

sorry to hear that tinkerin. they offered me a cut rate when i had to cancel once. they should have done the same for u. therye now the most expensive and they used to be the most economical.