Here's the deal.

I live in Eastman Georgia (31023), which is about 40 miles away from the towers in Macon. I recently installed a Channel Master 3671 and 7777 pre-amp on my roof. After installing and pointing, I found I'm getting the following signal strength on the stations I'm trying to receive:

WMAZ (digital channel 4) - ~70% (picture has noticeable break ups)
WPGA (digital channel 32) - ~40-50% (no lock or picture)
WMGT (digital channel 40) - ~50-60% (no lock or picture)

Will taking the antenna up another 5 feet increase my signal any? Also, My cable run is as follows:

from mast mounted pre-amp to grounding block
from grounding block through outside wall to back of wall plate
from front of wall plate to 7777 amp
from 7777 amp to television

Would running the RG-6 straight from the grounding block to the 7777 amp help instead of having two sections of cable joined at the wall plate? How much signal loss occurs when joining two separate pieces of RG-6?

At first glance, that setup appears to be more than adequate for your needs. Have you tried a different location on your roof? Do you have the narrow end pointing toward the broadcast towers? Is it all new cable between the antenna and the wall plate?

How do the analog stations look on your television? Are they ghosting? If so, you may have multipath issues. If they are very snowy, your antenna may be in a poor reception spot. Moving the antenna may help.

Try eliminating items in your cable path. First eliminate the wall plate. If that doesn't help, temporarily move the preamp directly before or after the grounding block as a test.

I've read in this forum antenna reception is more an art than science. Good luck.

I am guessing you have issues with hills blocking signal from the towers at your location.

-experiment with location, aim, and height to find a signal sweet spot
-try avoiding the wall plate and go direct to the amp powersupply inside. you never know.
-check the connectors inside an out. look for pieces of stray sheilding that can short to the center conductor.
-make sure the antenna was assembled properly.

-you may need to combine a 91xg to improve uhf performance and use your cm3671 for vhf.

but first things first.

Here's the deal.

I live in Eastman Georgia (31023), which is about 40 miles away from the towers in Macon. I recently installed a Channel Master 3671 and 7777 pre-amp on my roof. After installing and pointing, I found I'm getting the following signal strength on the stations I'm trying to receive:

WMAZ (digital channel 4) - ~70% (picture has noticeable break ups)
WGXA (digital channel 32) - ~40-50% (no lock or picture)
WMGT (digital channel 40) - ~50-60% (no lock or picture)

Will taking the antenna up another 5 feet increase my signal any?
It worth a try if it is not that much trouble. But you should also try lowering it a few feet as well. Did you try to tweak the aim and checking for better signal strength? A single connector should have minimal impact. Have you tried it without the CM 7777 in the path?

I plugged your zip code into antennaweb and could not get WMAZ-DT to show up even adding an antenna height of 1000' for the zip. Hilly area? WGXA-DT is on DT 16, not 32. But there is a WPGA-DT ABC 32 on UHF 32. Several of these stations are not at very high power. The FCC database also has low power STA entries for the station, but they may be at the higher permit power.


WMAZ-DT CBS 13, DT = ch 4, 7 kW, 181 meters HAAT (not that high power even for low VHF)
WGXA-DT Fox 24, DT = ch 16, STA power = 1.16 kW, full power = 1000 kW, 226 m HAAT (probably operating at full power, you be lucky to see anything at 1.16 kW)
WMGT-DT NBC 41, DT = 40, STA power = 3.3 kW, full = 110 kW, 189 m HAAT (110 kW is not a strong power level for UHF)
WPGA-DT ABC 32, DT = 32, power = 18 or 100 kW, 186 m HAAT.

Of these four stations, only WGXA-DT Fox 24 is at high power. Assuming you meant to say WPGA-DT ABC digital channel 32, all three have lower broadcast power levels and are only 181 to 189 meters Height Above Average Terrain (HAAT). You may need to get a dedicated UHF antenna for WMGT-DT and WPGA-DT.

With WMAZ-DT on channel 4 (low VHF band), you may be having issues with impulse noise from power lines or electrical appliances. On a digital signal that often shows up as frequent dropouts in an apparently strong signal. You can test this idea by viewing a low-VHF analog channel. Impuse noise shows up as white speckles that tend to cluster in horizontal bands across the screen. My analog channel 4 usually shows at least some impuse noise which mars an otherwise strong, clean signal.

I have a distant digital channel 8 that I can normally receive pretty well, but when one of my neighbors mows his lawn, the impuse noise from the spark plugs in his lawnmower causes my picture to break up. When my wife's bread-making machine goes into kneading mode, I get impulse noise all the way up into the middle UHF channels! :eek:

WGXA-DT is on DT 16, not 32. But there is a WPGA-DT ABC 32 on UHF 32.

Oops. Yep, that should have been WPGA not WGXA.

With WMAZ-DT on channel 4 (low VHF band), you may be having issues with impulse noise from power lines or electrical appliances. On a digital signal that often shows up as frequent dropouts in an apparently strong signal. You can test this idea by viewing a low-VHF analog channel. Impuse noise shows up as white speckles that tend to cluster in horizontal bands across the screen. My analog channel 4 usually shows at least some impuse noise which mars an otherwise strong, clean signal.

That's EXACTLY what I'm seeing on WMAZ. I can't think of any appliances nearby. Could be a power line issue. I'll have to take a look when I get home. Any ways to eliminate impulse noise? Could my crappy crimping job be contributing to this?

Have you tried it without the CM 7777 in the path?

Yep, tried it with the 7777 and without. Without the 7777 my signals dropped. I tried adjusting the aim as well. My analog stations actually look pretty good. No noticeable ghosting or snow.

I went yesterday and bought an excellent crimper and f connectors. I replaced all the ones not on the roof, eliminated the wall plate, and can now get WMGT pretty much all day with a signal strength around 60%. I'm going to try and get on the roof sometime this week (will probably be the weekend though) and replace all of them there as well. I may also replace the balun as the one I am using isn't new and see if that helps. Also, I'm using pretty decent RG-6 from solidsignal.com. It's not quad shielded however. Should I have went with quad shielded?

As for terrain, it's not real hilly in this part of the state. After I get through eliminating everything in the signal path like connectors and cabling, I'll raise it some more and see if that helps.

Here is what I get with 2150;
http://www.2150.com/broadcast/default.asp?latitude=32%2E208425&longitude=%2D83%2E185959&magnetic_north=%2D8&range=70&sort=distance&show_expired=True&show_construction=True&show_analog=True&show_low_power=False&action=Show+Stations

Doesn't look as you have much to watch.
No idea how the terrain is, all but one station is the same direction 42 miles away.

Have you looked over in the reception thread for a area near you?

Here is what I get with 2150;
http://www.2150.com/broadcast/default.asp?latitude=32%2E208425&longitude=%2D83%2E185959&magnetic_north=%2D8&range=70&sort=distance&show_expired=True&show_construction=True&show_analog=True&show_low_power=False&action=Show+Stations

Doesn't look as you have much to watch.
No idea how the terrain is, but all but one is the same direction 42 miles away.

Have you looked over in the reception thread for a area near you?

Yep, tried the Macon thread. I'm the only person from Eastman that's posted there. Looking at your link, I can see why I can pick up WMAZ and WMGT. I can also pick up WGNM very easily, but it's a Christian channel so I don't watch it. I know WGXA is going to full power in the next month or two (1000 kW) which looks to almost make it the strongest station on the list. I think WPGA is going to be the hardest one for me just looking at the transmitter antenna column.

Can you see any analog of channel 3 in Columbus (or, any analog stations on 2-6)?
If so, do you see pops and flashes of static? Or even, bars of noise that roll from the bottom to the top of the screen?

Those would be electrical interference.

Can you see any analog of channel 3 in Columbus (or, any analog stations on 2-6)?
If so, do you see pops and flashes of static? Or even, bars of noise that roll from the bottom to the top of the screen?

Those would be electrical interference.

Not sure. I'll try turning the antenna toward Columbus and check sometime this week. I haven't seen any analog stations in that range while flipping through.

Man, you guys ain't lying about this being a science. I've already dropped some serious coin on this. Maybe it's time to *cough* "move" to Atlanta so I can get the Atlanta HD locals from Dish Network. :)

much of the noise is received at the antenna. you can try quad shielded cable but may not help much.

the cm3671 has about 5 dbd gain on ch 4 and you can do better and may want to consider separate uhf and vhf antennas to gather more signal.

Being in a rural area, I doubt there is much electrical interference to deal with.

Standard solutions;
1. Raise antenna,
2. Move antenna,
3. 'Stack' antenna (side by side or one above the other),
4. Preamp (you surely don't have to worry about overload as I do),

5. Just move to a better location............

BTW, I just abbreviate M$ as most other do (never thought about $ony).

much of the noise is received at the antenna. you can try quad shielded cable but may not help much.

the cm3671 has about 5 dbd gain on ch 4 and you can do better and may want to consider separate uhf and vhf antennas to gather more signal.

That's what I've been thinking about as well. I've heard good things about the 91XG UHF antenna. I've considered adding it to my current setup and see if that helps. What about VHF antennas? Anything with a better gain than the 3671?

I've heard good things about the 91XG UHF antenna. 2x the price of a 4228 with only very slightly improved performance.

I like the wade delhi vip 306sr. has a gain of about 6-7 dbd on vhf and does well on fm

http://www.wade-antenna.com/Wade/VIP%20&%20ZIP%20Antennas.pdf

the cm4228 is rather heavy, a popular choice, a challenge to deal with on a stacked system with a standard rotor, and tames multipath poorly. sometimes it is a combination of factors not just gain that make an antenna more suited to your application and set of conditions. there are other options.

the 91xg is no slouch, is lighter, more directional with improved front to back ratio, can easily be tilted, and can stack the antennas farther apart on a shorter mast.

91xg on top with the vip 306sr on the bottom spaced abot 4' apart with the proper wiring and amplification will be sweet.

Well, here's my plan of attack...

Finish replacing crappy f-connectors on roof with good ones
Replace old balun with a new one
Remove wall plate and run directly to 7777 power supply
Check grounding block

If none of that works, then the next steps are...

Raise the antenna
Move antenna to another location on roof

If that doesn't do it, then my last options are...

Replace 3671 with separate UHF/VHF antennas

This is turning into a big project. Hopefully someone else from Eastman reads this and learns something.

Todd...sounds like a plan.

4. Preamp (you surely don't have to worry about overload as I do),

bruce take a look at this amp. I ordered 2 of them and going to experiment later this week. The hdp269s overloaded a tadd at the home.

low noise amp 1 db or less loss, 20 db adjustable gain. can not really be mast mounted but great for an attic or a spot inside.

http://www.kitztech.com

I will admit, I did forget he has VHF to deal with also. So the 4228 won't be the correct approach.

No idea why these (or any area) areas went or stayed with VHF (other than possible greater distance per ERP watt).

I like the wade delhi vip 306sr. has a gain of about 6-7 dbd on vhf and does well on fm

http://www.wade-antenna.com/Wade/VIP%20&%20ZIP%20Antennas.pdf

the cm4228 is rather heavy, a popular choice, a challenge to deal with on a stacked system with a standard rotor, and tames multipath poorly. sometimes it is a combination of factors not just gain that make an antenna more suited to your application and set of conditions. there are other options.

the 91xg is no slouch, is lighter, more directional with improved front to back ratio, can easily be tilted, and can stack the antennas farther apart on a shorter mast.

91xg on top with the vip 306sr on the bottom spaced abot 4' apart with the proper wiring and amplification will be sweet.

Just looked at some prices for the 306sr. Yikes! Anything cheaper out there with decent gain?

Also, I don't know if it makes any difference, but my RG-6 is taped to the pole to keep it from moving in the wind. I probably should have used standoffs. Would that make a difference?

The vip 306sr is not cheap but the best bang for the buck in your case.

there are less expensive vhf antennas but the vhf gain would be close to what you currently have with the cm3671. you would not see much of an improvement.

the winegard hd4053P or antennacraft 3bg22 come to mind. the gain of those are in the 5.5dbd gain ballpark vs 6-7 dbd with the vip306 and about 5 dbd with the cm3671.

black electrical is fine.

Well, here's my plan of attack...

Finish replacing crappy f-connectors on roof with good ones
Replace old balun with a new one
Remove wall plate and run directly to 7777 power supply
Check grounding block

If none of that works, then the next steps are...

Raise the antenna
Move antenna to another location on roof

If that doesn't do it, then my last options are...

Replace 3671 with separate UHF/VHF antennas.
You have a good plan and are getting a lot of good advice here. If you have two marginal stations, tweaking the antenna aim and placement may do the job.

However, the need for low VHF reception is only for the next two years. WMAZ-DT CBS 13 will be switching it's digital signal to upper VHF 13 after the analog shutdown occurs in February, 2009. The other 3 stations in Macon will stay at their current UHF digital assignments. WMAZ-DT CBS picking VHF 4 for interim digital reception was not the most customer friendly choice they could have made for people putting up new antennas.

You have a good plan and are getting a lot of good advice here. If you have two marginal stations, tweaking the antenna aim and placement may do the job.

However, the need for low VHF reception is only for the next two years. WMAZ-DT CBS 13 will be switching it's digital signal to upper VHF 13 after the analog shutdown occurs in February, 2009. The other 3 stations in Macon will stay at their current UHF digital assignments. WMAZ-DT CBS picking VHF 4 for interim digital reception was not the most customer friendly choice they could have made for people putting up new antennas.

Yep, that's one of the things I love about this forum. There's a lot of very knowledgeable people here that will help newbies like me. :)

I read about WMAZ moving to VHF 13 in 2009. That will definitely make things easier for us folk down this way.

2 years is like a prison term if you want something now.

Actually, separate VHF and UHF antennas would be the best choice. Combined antennas have been always a poor choice for the best performance.

I use the Winegard 8200 UHF/VHF antenna with a Winegard 8275 UHF/VHF preamp. It is big and not particularly cheap but it is comparable to the 4228 or 91xg plus it has VHF. Also use RG-6 quad shield and it is better to eliminate the breaks. Make a short run to the preamp. A long run straight to the power inserter. Then a short run to the TV or STB.

Actually I use RG-11 which is still better than RG-6 quad shield but it is harder to find and difficult to work with as it is 1/2 inch thick.

Rick R

I use the Winegard 8200 UHF/VHF antenna with a Winegard 8275 UHF/VHF preamp. It is big and not particularly cheap but it is comparable to the 4228 or 91xg plus it has VHF. Also use RG-6 quad shield and it is better to eliminate the breaks. Make a short run to the preamp. A long run straight to the power inserter. Then a short run to the TV or STB.

Actually I use RG-11 which is still better than RG-6 quad shield but it is harder to find and difficult to work with as it is 1/2 inch thick.

Rick R

I ALMOST went with the 8200. I just couldn't find anyone around here that sells it. It's so large that shipping would have cost me an arm and a leg.

I think I may have multipath issues. My antenna is shooting straight through a bunch of large oak trees. I turned it to some of the channels and watched the signal strength and it constantly fluctuated. On digital 32, the signal strength was jumping wildly from 0% to 50%. I then checked out some of the analog stations and they were either snowy or showed the shadow effect. When the sun starts going down and the wind dies down, the signal starts going up.

I'm still going to double check all of my connectors and replace the balun. Then I'm going to move the antenna to another part of the roof and see if that helps. If not, I think I'm going to buy a 91XG.

I think I may have multipath issues. My antenna is shooting straight through a bunch of large oak trees.

I live 35 miles north of Atlanta in a valley. I am surrounded by 60' Georgia pines. Thick rows of them going up a slope. Prior to having 5th generation receivers, my signal went up and down like a yoyo. I live in multipath hell.

The solution is not solely the antenna. I have the 4228 & 91xg antennas (the best on the market) and neither of them function without my 5th gen receivers - a Samsung 260F and an OnAir GT. Both receivers show my signal strength to be at 80% - stable and consistent day in and day out. As soon as I put in a pre-5th generation receiver, it all goes to hell.

What receiver do you use? Antennas are only one part of the equation and many times not the final solution. I played with every conceivable antenna available for two years and what finally clicked for me was a combination of things - good antennas, sweet spot location, good preamps, quality cable, and 5th generation receivers. Not just one thing...and all of those things cost time and money.

I second bwam, same issue here and the only cure was 91xg recomended by rick 0725. Samsung is tops. But samsung with 91 is A1. 4228 is very close and better for vhf issues. I want to stack 2 91xg's this summer. I have some issues with fading still, but tolerable.

I want to stack 2 91xg's this summer.

Davinleeds,

I stacked two 91XGs vertically for higher gain and upped my signal strength by 2-3 db. That may not sound like much but since the signal tended to dip below the acceptable SNR threshold of the receiver from time to time (dropouts seemingly at the most awkward moments), that extra 3 db stabilized the reception (made it remain above the required SNR).

You might consider the following stacking combiner 2WCU1469 (0.2 db insertion loss). Cost me $100 (with shipping included in that price):

http://www.lindsaybroadbandinc.com/antenna/commercial.catv/v-u-combiners.html

I emailed Lindsay directly and got a purchase order from them. Paid by check.

What receiver do you use? Antennas are only one part of the equation and many times not the final solution. I played with every conceivable antenna available for two years and what finally clicked for me was a combination of things - good antennas, sweet spot location, good preamps, quality cable, and 5th generation receivers. Not just one thing...and all of those things cost time and money.

I've tried both my VIP 622 Dish Network receiver and the tuner built in to my Sony 50" SXRD KDS-50A2000. The Sony tuner seems to do a better job than the VIP 622. With the Sony tuner WMGT and WMAZ are watchable. On the VIP 622, nothing is watchable.

I've tried both my VIP 622 Dish Network receiver and the tuner built in to my Sony 50" SXRD KDS-50A2000. The Sony tuner seems to do a better job than the VIP 622. With the Sony tuner WMGT and WMAZ are watchable. On the VIP 622, nothing is watchable.

Wonder what generation chipset the internal tuner of the Sony is... Or the Dish receiver? Are they known for resolving multipath?

bwam, that's sweet info. thanks. Todd UGA, the only antenna that has made a real difference for me is the 91xg, and I mean I have spent 1000 on STB and so far-- samsung hands down. I have four other stb's on the shelf doing crap. Because of fading, I want to add another 91xg to stabilize feed. Sweet spot-- YES , you have to check and for me pre amps-- CM 7777 and 7775, check your specs, there's a british preamp with very low specs but $$$

I just noticed last night that trying to watch OTA on the 622 causes it to lock up. I was getting a good number of channels last night so I decided to see what kind of signal strength I was getting on the 622 instead of my television's tuner. After hooking the antenna up to the 622, scanning for locals, then adding them they appear in my guide. When I turn to one of them I get nothing but a black screen. After a few seconds the 622 locks up. I then have to do a soft reboot. Even after the soft reboot, it still locks up when I turn to an OTA channel. Weird.

I was getting WMGT, WMAZ, and WPGA last night pretty good. OTA HD looks pretty impressive when it comes in. Hopefully conditions will be right tonight so that I can watch Lost in HD on WPGA.

before you spend too much more money go with your plan.

-double check the fine details of your install. connecters, distribution plan, balun, was the antenna put together properly, splitters, etc.

-try to find a signal sweet spot. move the antenna, height, aim. this is not easy without instrumentation and requires patience.

-try to find a location where the antenna points to a clearing or area where the foliage is not as dense.

- having trees to the sides and back is much easier to deal with than trees in front. with trees infront you need strong forward gain to attain strong useable signal. no wimpy antennas are advised.

-with trees to the back and sides directivity and high front to back ratio come into play.

all these properties are important.

-when you tweak the antenna use small movements, step away from the antenna, give the signal a chance to settle down. touch and close proximity to the antenna will affect your results.

-with the signal bouncing around...it will be hard to depend on the signal level meter in the tuner to peak for best signal. and to be honest they are really not a true indication of signal strength but more of quality...whatever that is!

-you may need to look at analog to get a feel for how reception is affected with your antenna movements. see if the ghosting is improved or not.

I have installed in spots where aiming an antenna could not tame ghosting at all and the digital signal was terrible. the user was less that 5 miles from towers. there was a big ass hill plus trees in the way.

we ended up using the biggest antenna he was willing to buy...hd7084p...and that was not enough. suggested an hd8200p and he thought I was nuts. the users here suggested coathangers, cm3016...whatever. see picture.

-avoid tweaking on a windy day. the fluctuation of signal will drive you nuts. if you did not purchase a rotor, it may be a good idea.

you are doing the right things. just be patient.

from reading around the various sites.

it appears that the dish receivers have ota issues if signal is not just right.

you may be better off trying a 5th generation receiver just for the piece of mind. The money you spend on the samsung could easily be thrown away buying fixes and other electronics that would not work more to your liking.

the ups and downs in signal can be a variety of things. multipath, lack of consistant quality bit error free signal, etc. and there is not just one approach or answer.

Rick, I drew a quick picture of my setup. The antenna is mounted on the eave of the highest part of my roof. After checking all of my connections this weekend, if the signal hasn't improved I may try mounting it to the right on the eave of the lower part of the roof. It may help me get around the trees some.

if the signal hasn't improved I may try mounting it to the right on the eave of the lower part of the roof. It may help me get around the trees some.

I would move the system there anyway and try to get adequate height. looks like it would clear the trees better.

I ALMOST went with the 8200. I just couldn't find anyone around here that sells it. It's so large that shipping would have cost me an arm and a leg.
There were two stores in the area here that sold the 8200. They both sold it for 30% off the list price so it was a good deal. Unfortunately they both went out of business. One guy told me that they couldn't compete with Fry's. I haven't tried to look for another store maybe further away. However I was told that there is a 8200p which is the same antenna but the boom is in two pieces so it is more easily shipable. I have heard that the 8200p is not quite as strong as the 8200.

The first picture is my 8200. The second picture is when I had an 8200 and also a CM 4248. The 8200 was vastly superior to the 4248 so I sold the 4248.

Rick R

the hd8200p is still shipped by truck. the hd8200p/hd8200 are the same antenna.

the build quality has gone down some to save on costs over the years . for example, my antenna from the mid 90's has a blue coating and has more robust fit and finish.

the hd8200p has been my pride and joy for almost 14 years and is still in great shape. I mate mine with a 91xg for uhf. the uhf performance of the hd8200p is below that of the cm4228 and 91xg. the hd8200p does a great job on vhf and tames multpath nicely. the hd8200p replaced and out performed a wade 936sr and cm 3671 prior to.

I think I'm getting the dreaded impulse noise on 4. Last night the signal was around 80 and I was still getting these little streaks of breakup in the picture occasionally.

Are there any ways to reduce impulse noise?

phase cancellation.

phase cancellation.

How would I go about doing that? Is there a filter I can buy?

Didn't get a chance to do any work on the antenna this weekend. I did get to watch a good bit of HD though. WMAZ, WMGT, and WGXA come in most nights, with WGXA being the hardest to pick up. I even picked up some Savannah and South Carolina stations for a couple of nights. OTA looks fantastic. Hopefully I can finish up work on it by this weekend.

This will not help most of you but for anyone in the Los Angeles area, Marvac at 1759 E. Colorado Bl in Pasadena (626-793-1195) has an 8200p in stock for $175.99.

Rick R

Well, I've replaced all of the connectors and even moved the antenna. I'm still having the same signal strength problems. Looks like my next step is to see if getting more height will help. If not, then 91xg here I come.

what are you going to do about ch 4...91xg is uhf

what are you going to do about ch 4...91xg is uhf

Continue using the 3671 for 4 and add the 91xg for UHF.

Continue using the 3671 for 4 and add the 91xg for UHF.

great plan.

I use my hd8200p for vhf/fm and 91xg for uhf. Just upgraded the system a few days ago. put the 91xg on top, installed a new rotor, new coax, and hdp269 preamp.

spaced about 3.5' apart

see pic.

great plan.

I use my hd8200p for vhf/fm and 91xg for uhf. Just upgraded the system a few days ago. put the 91xg on top, installed a new rotor, new coax, and hdp269 preamp.

spaced about 3.5' apart

see pic.

My system will look almost exactly like yours...91xg on top and 3671 below. I still may eventually replace the 3671 with a vhf only yagi antenna like the Wade 10Y4S. But that will have to wait for another day. :)

the cm3671 will give you ch 2-13 plus fm....more flexibility.

If ch 4 comes in ok with the cm3671 would stick with that.

I was thinking of replacing the hd8200p with vhf only but said the heck with it.

Well, for one night I was in OTA heaven. It rained most of the day and night yesterday and all my stations were coming in at 75-90%. Of course, today things are back to normal.

I don't think my 3671 is strong enough for channel 4 VHF. There are constant break-ups. My brother is wanting to buy my 3671 from me. I thought about selling it to him and picking up an 8200P. How much more gain VHF-wise would an 8200P give me over the 3671? The 3671 just seems very flimsy and not very solid.

I'm getting closer and closer to my final option, which is a 10 element VHF channel 4 yagi paired with a 91xg.

you would be better off with separates. performance will be improved.

-the 91 xg will outperform the uhf on the 8200p

-you just need to decide on the vhf side what you would like to do.

a 10 element yagi for ch 4 is rather long. 14'2"...10dbd gain

the vip 306 12'4" 7 dbd gain. will give you ch 2-13 plus fm. and you could still use this down the road when ch 4 switches.

Are there any online dealers that sell the VIP 306?

Lindsay Antenna, mentioned earlier, has sold off it's antenna division to Wade/Delhi:

http://www.wade-antenna.com/Wade/index1.htm

If you are getting impulse noise on VHF-LB, you might get the Power Company to come help out. Or, find a Ham who is experienced in direction finding.

Will impulse noise decrease as signal strength goes up? Yesterday during the rain, 4 was coming in crystal clear. Signal strength went up to around 80%. When it went back down to around 65-70% after the rain passed, the break-up started again. I'm starting to wonder if maybe my 3671 just isn't strong enough for 4.

I just ordered a longer mast that will take it up another 5 ft. If this doesn't do it, then I'm buying the 91xg and a separate VHF antenna (unless the extra height helps the 3671 somehow pick up VHF 4). I think my wife is about ready to kill me because of the money I've spent on this so far. :)

Is there an online dealer that sells the Wade VIP306 in case the extra height doesn't help my VHF reception? The Wade site doesn't let you order it online.

Caution on the wind loading. An extra 5' is a lot of torque. Georgia can get some nasty thunderstorms. Standard design is for 80 mph in my area of the country, it may be higher in the south. I have my yagi (CM3023 UHF) no higher than 5' above the chimney mount. A good gust of wind can turn your antenna into a really expensive bird's nest.

Impulse noise comes from a lot of sources- power lines, light dimmers, fluorescent ballasts - the spectrum can extend all the way into VHF+. The ham receivers are good at finding this stuff since they tune over a broad range, but DF'ing (direction finding) can be difficult due to the long wavelengths, i.e. low frequencies need large antennas. Signal strength may be better.

Try using a plain vanilla AM radio to start hunting. Tune to an unused channel. If you hear it, walk around to see if you can find it. Turn lights in the house on/off also.

As pointed out in Post #4, these stations are at LP with three of them being at 1.16, 7, and 18 kW respectively. Along with Eastman being below Macon's elevation, the towers not being real high, and the oak trees, I'm a little surprised at any reception of some of them in Eastman if it's 40 miles away.

As pointed out in Post #4, these stations are at LP with three of them being at 1.16, 7, and 18 kW respectively. Along with Eastman being below Macon's elevation, the towers not being real high, and the oak trees, I'm a little surprised at any reception of some of them in Eastman if it's 40 miles away.

I pick up WMGT digital 40 at about 65-70% all the time and it's broadcasting at 110kW. No picture break-ups and a solid lock. WMAZ digital 4 comes in about 60-65%, but has breakups every few seconds. At night it comes in a bit better. It's broadcasting at 7kW. WPGA digital 32 doesn't come in at all during the day but occasionally comes in at night. It's the hardest one to pick up and is broadcasting at 100 kW. WGXA digital 16 never comes in. At 1.16 kW I pretty much expected that. They are supposed to go full power sometime around May 1 at 1000 kW. Hopefully at that power I can pick it up easily.

I think with a little more height (with guy wires attached to make sure it stays put) and separate UHF/VHF antennas (91xg and VIP306), I can probably get WMAZ, WMGT, and WGXA (when it goes full power) pretty well. WPGA is the only one I have doubts about. I installed my brother's antenna (he's less than 5 miles away) and he gets WMGT and WPGA at around 90% all the time. He can't get WMAZ well, coming in at about 40%. But he's using a Channel Master 3018 antenna, which has less VHF gain than my 3671. If he had my 3671, I think he could pull in WMAZ as well.

If worst comes to worst, I'll throw a rotor up there and see if I can pick up some channels from neighboring towns.

If the problem is cleared up when it rains, it might be an indication of power line noise, due to arcing across a dirty or cracked insulator. The moisture grounds it out, so the "sputtering" stops. An electric fence can have the same symptoms, due to dirty insulators, or stuff being up against the energized wires of the fence.

mount the setup like mine. the top mast is about 6.5 ft. through the rotor.

The vip 306 is shorter than the hd8200p by 29" and 24.5" shorter than the cm3671.

vip 306 148.5" (12'4")
cm3671 173"
hd8200p 177.5"
vip 307 194"

mast to the side of the home to the right like in your diagram.

2 sections of 1 1/4" emt conduit from mast to roof. that does not budge. I do not use guy wires.

I used an alliance u110 rotor and controller with thrust bearing. my last one lasted 23 years with 2 antennas. norm only has a couple thrust bearings left.

from norm's rotor service.

http://www.normsrotorservice.com/prod1%20rotor%20sales.htm

these are US wade stocking warehouses

Lafayette Electronic Supply Lafayette, IN (765) 447-9660

Wiltronics Supply Tyler, TX (903) 597-6315

this should not be a big deal.

If the problem is cleared up when it rains, it might be an indication of power line noise, due to arcing across a dirty or cracked insulator. The moisture grounds it out, so the "sputtering" stops. An electric fence can have the same symptoms, due to dirty insulators, or stuff being up against the energized wires of the fence.

I'm going to try the AM radio trick and see if I can figure out where this noise is coming from. WMAZ digital 4 and WMGT digital 40 both come in at almost the same signal strength. While WMGT gets a solid lock with no errors, WMAZ gets a lock but has a ton of errors. This morning it came in perfectly with no errors, but it was cloudy and I believe it had rained overnight. Hopefully I can figure this out before football season this fall.

I haven't yet tried the AM radio thing, but I am going this afternoon to pick up a longer mast and take it up another 5 feet or so. Masts are pretty cheap so I figured I'd try this before going to separate VHF/UHF antennas. Fingers crossed.

Well, bought a longer mast but haven't had time to put it up yet. Been too busy working on the baby's room (baby's due in July). As soon as I get a chance, I'll install it and see what happens.

My antenna mount got a good workout this last weekend. Around 1:30 AM Sunday morning, I noticed that it had started raining pretty hard. I got up to check it out. A few minutes later the rain stopped and it was dead calm outside. The next thing I know I hear what sounds like a train and my house starts shaking from intense winds. I grab the wife and put her in the bathtub. Like an idiot, I go to the living room and look out the window. The trees we're bent over and the wind was swirling, blowing rain in every direction. It sounded like my house was in a wind tunnel. I could see transformers popping in the distance. Turns out we had two tornado warnings that night. I believe one of them passed right over my house. I think it was probably a weak F0, but it was still scary. The second tornado hit my sister's neighborhood and destroyed a number of homes. Luckily nobody was injured by either tornado.

When I checked my house the next day there were a ton of trees with damage and huge limbs everyone. We even had power lines down. But my antenna hadn't moved any. I think my eave mount is plenty sturdy. :)

Yelp, me and the missus was down at Saint George Island just south of Apalachicola. I had sat up watching some tv and learning to snell hooks. The weather was pretty intense. About 1:30am I decided to go to bed...by 2:00am it got worse and we were sitting in front of the tv hearing that a waterspout had been spotted in the vicinity of the bridge all the while watching a big red ugly radar blob walk the length of the island! Very intense...yelp, your mount is pretty strong. :)

Ed
Well, bought a longer mast but haven't had time to put it up yet. Been too busy working on the baby's room (baby's due in July). As soon as I get a chance, I'll install it and see what happens.

My antenna mount got a good workout this last weekend. Around 1:30 AM Sunday morning, I noticed that it had started raining pretty hard. I got up to check it out. A few minutes later the rain stopped and it was dead calm outside. The next thing I know I hear what sounds like a train and my house starts shaking from intense winds. I grab the wife and put her in the bathtub. Like an idiot, I go to the living room and look out the window. The trees we're bent over and the wind was swirling, blowing rain in every direction. It sounded like my house was in a wind tunnel. I could see transformers popping in the distance. Turns out we had two tornado warnings that night. I believe one of them passed right over my house. I think it was probably a weak F0, but it was still scary. The second tornado hit my sister's neighborhood and destroyed a number of homes. Luckily nobody was injured by either tornado.

When I checked my house the next day there were a ton of trees with damage and huge limbs everyone. We even had power lines down. But my antenna hadn't moved any. I think my eave mount is plenty sturdy. :)

Just noticed something interesting.

All of my OTA channels come in except for channel 32 digital. It is at 334 degrees and 44.2 miles away. I also have an analog channel 29 at 352 degrees and 19.2 miles away. The analog 29 puts out a pretty strong signal. Tonight while flipping the channels I noticed that digital 32 was coming in clear, which is unusual. I continued flipping the channels and noticed analog 29 was not broadcasting. Channel 32 continued coming in for a few minutes and then went out again. I flipped back around and noticed analog 29 was back on the air. Could the analog 29 be affecting digital 32? And if it is can I filter it out?

overloading from the station at 19 miles. can be fixed would rather avoid filters for now and focus on the amp.

what are you using for an amp and antenna. cm3671?

19.2 miles
5000 kw wmum
~10 dbd gain on ch 29
figuring 10 db system losses (may be less or more) balum and coax to preamp (2db) coax to distribution point and to tv (8db)

the hdp 269 calculates out with a dbm of about -6

the cm7777 7.9dbm
ap 8700 -2 dbm

anything over -6 dbm overloads.

even if you factor in 3 db for misc, losses all the other amps will overload.

if you amplify uhf only and pass vhf (if you have a combo) you may take some of the edge off the overload. you can try a notch filter for ch 29 but would rather use the right amp and wire the setup accordingly.

call this filter co. if you want to try a notch filter. 800.882.1587.

they stock a 20 and 40 db uhf tuned to channel notch barrel filter. they are local and will tune a filter for you and ship one out the same day. 40 db will wipe most of ch 29 out, with 20 db may still be watchable. tough to tell without measuring the levels with instruments.

Fyi. I located a wade 306 vip vhf. a little under $200 including frt and sales tax. shipped direct from canada. not cheap.

overloading from the station at 19 miles. can be fixed would rather avoid filters for now and focus on the amp.

what are you using for an amp and antenna. cm3671?

Using the Channel Master 7777 with my 3671.

Fyi. I located a wade 306 vip vhf. a little under $200 including frt and sales tax. shipped direct from canada. not cheap.

Do they have a website?

It's weird that I can't pick up 32. Everyone else I know in the area picks it up perfectly. The only time I can is very late at night, like 2-3 AM. That's why I was shocked when it was coming in during the daytime. Coming in when channel 29 was out could be a coincidence, but I figured it was worth investigating since 29 and 32 are so close.

If I decide to try a channel notch barrel filter, how much do they usually run?

Using the Channel Master 7777 with my 3671.

Too much preamp gain for your setup causing overload is the preliminary guess.

ch29 @5000kw @19.2 miles is too much for the cm7777.
even ch 24 at 1290kw is potential from overload
ch 4 also can be an issue on the vhf side

need the following info to make the final determination. I think I am in the ballpark anyways.

-length of coax from antenna to preamp
-length of coax from preamp to distribution point
-describe the setup from distribution point to tv. splitters (2 way, 4 way?) length of coax to tv, other devices.
-need a feel for misc attenuation of signal. hills, trees, in a valley. whatever.

If I decide to try a channel notch barrel filter, how much do they usually run?

call and find out.

Do they have a website?

call a wade distributor closer to home and get a quote for the antenna plus frt. the antenna alone should be close to $150

Too much preamp gain for your setup causing overload is the preliminary guess.

ch29 @5000kw @19.2 miles is too much for the cm7777.
even ch 24 at 1290kw is potential from overload
ch 4 also can be an issue on the vhf side

need the following info to make the final determination. I think I am in the ballpark anyways.

-length of coax from antenna to preamp
-length of coax from preamp to distribution point
-describe the setup from distribution point to tv. splitters (2 way, 4 way?) length of coax to tv, other devices.
-need a feel for misc attenuation of signal. hills, trees, in a valley. whatever.



I have approximately 25-30 ft of coax from the antenna mounted pre-amp to the grounding block. Then there's about 6 ft of coax from the grounding block to the amp inside. Then I have a three foot piece of coax from the amp to the television. I don't have any kind of splitters installed. There are a number of large trees around, but the terrain here is pretty flat.

then the situation is even worse

with your info supplied
ch 32 5000kw
hdp 269 -4.4 dbm
ap8700 +4.4
cm 7777 +9.6

ch 24 1290 kw
hdp 269 -6.5
ap8700 +.5
cm7777 +7.5

the figure to get to is -6 dbm

overload with the cm7777

replace the cm7777 with an hdp269, purchase 2 cm 0549's and amplify uhf and pass vhf.

another option as mentioned before is separates with hdp269
91xg
wade 306 vip

to improve reception you would need to improve the antenna gain because you can not use a high gain preamp because of overload considerations.

What if I took off the CM 7777 and added a separate FM trap to take care of my local radio station broadcasting at 97.5 FM about 5 miles away? Would that possibly do the trick? I tried the antenna without the 7777 when I first installed it and it seemed like the signal strength wasn't much lower than what it is now.

Circuit City Motorola Signal Booster 80 bucks, I went from getting nothing to almost everything!

to improve reception you would need to improve the antenna situation because you can not use a high gain preamp because of overload considerations of the high powered stations mentioned.

the cm7777 has to much gain for your situation.

the hdp269 is the best alternative in regards to a preamp. then you would amplify uhf and pass vhf unamplified with the cm0549's mentioned above. you can filter the fm but that would not do much good in your situation.

it is the combination of all signals getting to the preamp causing the issues, too high amp gain, short cable runs, and no splitting.

replace the cm7777 with an hdp269, purchase 2 cm 0549's and amplify uhf and pass vhf.



I think I'm going to try this and see how it works. How are the two 0549's installed?

you need to run 2 coax is side

see wiring diagram.

Well, I've sold my 3671 to my brother and am starting from scratch. First step is I ordered a 91xg, hdp269, and ditched the 7777. The next step will be to order a separate VHF antenna and join the two. The project continues.

That's what I've been thinking about as well. I've heard good things about the 91XG UHF antenna. I've considered adding it to my current setup and see if that helps. What about VHF antennas? Anything with a better gain than the 3671?
I own a 4228 and a 91XG and in my situation the 91xg blows away the 4228! :)

I own a 4228 and a 91XG and in my situation the 91xg blows away the 4228! :)

That gives me hope. I think my biggest problem is multipath. I've heard the 91xg tames it pretty well so I'm hoping it will do the trick.

Well, I've given up on the Wade. Way too expensive to buy and ship. I think I'm going to go with the Winegard HD4053P as my VHF antenna. Now to just get everything here and up.

the hd4053p is more of a red zone medium range vhf antenna. close to the vhf performance of the cm3671.

the vip 306 should be in the $150 ballpark plus frt. or you are getting ripped off. you are talking a difference of about $50 . solid signal wants $104 for the hd4053p.

for the extra money you may actually be better off with the vip 306.

What if I just went with the Wade 5Y4S five element yagi for channel 4? It's really the only VHF channel I have any interest in and I can get it at a decent price. Plus it has a gain of about 7.5 dBd.

will the 5y4s work...who knows.

how bout the larger ch 4 yagi 10 y4s just to be safe/just in case. how much extra is the 10 element antenna.

will that work...who knows.

how bout the larger ch 4 yagi 10 y4s just to be safe.

I thought about a 10 element as well. The only thing is that sucker is huge, at about 170" long. Of course, that's close to the same length as my 3671. The gain was listed around 10 dBd though. Right now I'm waiting for the place you gave me the number to to call me back. When he does I'll ask him about the 10Y4S.

what I was thinking

if ch 4 came in lousy with the cm3671 you may actually need the heavy hitter. no woulda couldas. if it does not come in with the big banger you aint receivin' it.

where is ch 4 going in 2009.

what I was thinking

if ch 4 came in lousy with the cm3671 you may actually need the heavy hitter. no woulda couldas. if it does not come in with the big banger you aint receivin' it.

where is ch 4 going in 2009.

It's going to 13.

Well, I've gotten one call back from Cumberland Electronics. Their prices are:

VIP 306 - $199+30 SH
10Y4S - $135.65+90 SH

I'm waiting for Goldcrest to return my call to compare prices.

I was told by Cumberland that the VIP shipping is cheaper because they would ship it out from the US. The 10Y4S would have to be drop shipped from Canada.

I'm leaning towards the 10Y4S over the 306. Price between the two is close and the 10Y4S is about 10 dBd where the 306 is around 7 dBd. When WMAZ switches from 4 to 13 and goes full power, I may be able to pick it up with the 91XG.

if the station is going to ch13 the ch 4 yagi is not a good option.

plus with the vip 306 you will recieve ch 2-13 plus some decent fm.

if the station is going to ch13 the ch 4 yagi is not a good option.

plus with the vip 306 you will recieve ch 2-13 plus some decent fm.

After 2009 the only VHF channel I'll be interested in is 13 and I have no use for FM radio.

After 2009 the only VHF channel I'll be interested in is 13 and I have no use for FM radio.

the ch 4 yagi will then be a house ornament in 2009.

the vip306 would be the best alternative .

the ch 4 yagi will then be a house ornament in 2009.

the vip306 would be the best alternative .

Yep, I'd probably take it down in 2009 when the switch to 13 takes place. I just worry about buying the 306 and it still not being enough antenna. Then I would be wishing I had bought the 10Y4S for the extra 3 dBd of gain. Decisions...decisions.

Hi Folks,

Having a problem with the audio cutting in and out in split second intervals. I'm using a HP65" dlp connected to a 20yr old antenna, a good one about 8 ft long both uhf/vhf and in the attic on the riverfront here in Detroit. The picture is greaat except for the audio problem. Any thoughts is appreciated,

THX,

Chris

OK Rick, the VIP 306 it is.

I assume I run RG6 from the VIP306 and 91XG into a CH 0549 then to the hdp269. Correct? How far apart should I space the 306 and 91XG? About 3 ft?

OK Rick, the VIP 306 it is.

I assume I run RG6 from the VIP306 and 91XG into a CM 0549 then to the hdp269. Correct? How far apart should I space the 306 and 91XG? About 3 ft?

your hookup is correct. the antennas are spaced about 3.5' apart with 91xg on top.

if you are using a rotor, the vip306 would be just less than a foot over the motor.

get the antenna system as high as you can above ground. I noticed that I lost some vhf gain when I reversed antennas and lowered the vhf antenna just 6 feet. it was a good thing for me because the vhf contributed some to my overload issues.

I am ordering a vip 306 as soon as they finish residing my home. I am looking forward to it. I will be triming about 30" going from the 8200p to the vip 306.

enclosed is picture of my current setup.

Looks like our setups will be about the same. Should be interesting comparing them. I'm interested in the 306, as there's not a lot of online reviews.

Goldcrest called me back. They want $169 for the 306 but would have to drop ship it, so the shipping would be huge.

Goldcrest called me back. They want $169 for the 306 but would have to drop ship it, so the shipping would be huge.

I just called them for you. The antenna can be shipped ups and not truck so the frt will be reasonable.

They will get a quote for ups frt from canada to your home and will call you with the info.

call them back with a zipcode if you did not supply one to them on your last call.

Well, I'm back from a much needed family vacation. My 91XG and HDP 269 are sitting in the garage waiting to be installed. I haven't even opened the boxes yet. Hopefully I can get my brother-in-law to come over this weekend and help me put it up. I'm excited to see what kind of signal I can get.

Rick, I haven't had the chance to call back Goldcrest. I can't call them right now because I'm at work, but I'll try as soon as I can. Hopefully it won't cost a lot to UPS the 306 to me here in Georgia (zip 31023).

I've started a blog to document my antenna installation. I figure maybe this can save someone else in my situation some trouble. Click here (http://hdantenna.blogspot.com/) to take a look.

I'm finished installing the 91XG. I tried installing it three ways....with the Channel Master 7777, with the Winegard HDP 269, and without a pre-amp. The UHF channels I was trying to receive are 16, 32, and 40.

Without the pre-amp, I couldn't get a solid lock on any of the three UHF channels I was trying to pick up.

Next, I tried the 7777. With the 7777 I could get 16 and 40, although 40 wouldn't get a solid lock and broke up occasionally.

Finally, I tried the 269. With the 269, I got a solid lock on 16 and 40 without any break-ups. This was a shock since 40 usually only comes in at night. Now it is solid all day long.

The mystery is 32. I have tried everything to pick this station up. The signal meter would jump from 0-32 and never lock. I pulled out a barrel filter I had made for UHF channel 29. I bought it a couple of months ago because I thought 29, which is less than 15 miles away, might be overloading my tuner. All of my other channels are around 44 miles away. I put the filter between the 269 power supply and the television and my signal strength jumped up to around 45, with an occasional jump into the 60's. This gave me hope that I may be able to pick up 32 at night.

So the verdict in my case is the 269 performed the best for my situation. It would appear my only hope of picking up 32 all day is wait until 2009 when 32 shuts off the analog and takes their digital strength to full power. Now to get that VIP306 VHF antenna. :)

Edit: It's 7:50 and 32 is now locked and coming in clear. So it looks like the combination of the 91XG and the HDP 269 did the trick for me. Thanks Rick for the help. As soon as I get the 306 I'll let you know how well it performs.

happy to hear you are making progress and glad to help.

try the filter before the preamp right off the antenna and see if you get any improvement.

happy to hear you are making progress and glad to help.

try the filter before the preamp right off the antenna and see if you get any improvement.

Yep, that's the next thing I need to try. I probably should have tried it while I was installing the antenna, but it completely slipped my mind.

Bringing this thread back from the dead!!!

My VIP 306 is on the way via UPS. It took a while to buy the last piece of my antenna puzzle because of the birth of our new baby boy. Can't wait to put it up and see how well it does paired with my 91XG.

Rick, did you ever get your 306?

The VIP 306 arrived today. I haven't had a chance to put it together, but just looking at it in the box it's pretty solidly built. I know a lot of people have asked me about this thing so when I finally get it up, I'll let you know what my impressions are. I'm hoping it will have enough gain for me to finally pick up WMAZ-DT.

Well, the 306 is up and running. After finishing the install, I checked the signal strength for WMAZ digital 4 on my Sony A2000. Where the strength was around 60-65% with my 3671, it's jumped to 75-85% with the 306. Unfortunately, I'm still getting drop outs even with the stronger signal. The diagnostic screen still shows a ton of errors. I'm thinking that there's definitely some source of interference somewhere in my vicinity. I'm calling the power company about getting someone to come out and see if maybe there's a cracked insulator around causing some power line noise. If that doesn't do it, then I'm done with my setup and will wait for 2009 for WMAZ to go to channel 13 unless someone knows how to get rid of impulse noise. Rick075 mentioned phase cancellation and searching google I found this...

http://www.mwfilter.com/pdffiles/pg30.pdf

Anyone have any experience with this filter or company? I contacted them and the price was $490.00, which definitely wouldn't make the wife happy after I spent all of this money so far. Plus it looks like I'd have to add ANOTHER antenna to make the phase cancellation work.

So here's my final tally...

WMAZ (CBS) digital 4 - 75-85% with noticeable break-ups (does improve some at night)
WGXA (Fox) digital 16 - 95-100% all day, perfect picture
WMGT (NBC) digital 40 - 70-80% all day, no drop outs
WPGA (ABC) digital 32 - ~65% during the day, ~70% at night, no drop outs

Thanks to everyone that helped me along the way. Even though I didn't get every channel I was hoping for, I at least can watch FOX, ABC, and NBC in HD any time of the day now. Heck, on some nights I get all of the Atlanta stations as well. Who knows. If I can talk the wife into it, I may just throw a rotor up there one of these days. :)

Unless someone knows how to get rid of impulse noise.

First verify if impulse noise is the problem. There are two ways to do that.

The number one method is to tune your car radio down to an unused frequency on the low end of the AM dial and drive around the neighborhood. If there is line noise, a loud buzzing sound will appear. The buzz will be loudest at the pole with the problem. I have heard (But I would never admit to doing it myself.) that hitting the offending pole with a large sledgehammer will sometimes fix the problem, albeit temporarily.

The second method is to find a weak analog TV channel in the 2-6 range that you could observe. Line noise shows up as bands of white sparkles that creep slowly up the screen.

Have you contacted the TV station itself and told them about your reception? We had a VHF on channel 10 in Eastern NC that was doing what your describing, and it turned out to be a problem at their transmitter. The picture and sound were breaking up every 10 to 20 seconds. Once the part they ordered came in and was installed, I have never had anymore pixelation, except for when there is a lightning storm near.

First verify if impulse noise is the problem. There are two ways to do that.

The number one method is to tune your car radio down to an unused frequency on the low end of the AM dial and drive around the neighborhood. If there is line noise, a loud buzzing sound will appear. The buzz will be loudest at the pole with the problem. I have heard (But I would never admit to doing it myself.) that hitting the offending pole with a large sledgehammer will sometimes fix the problem, albeit temporarily.

The second method is to find a weak analog TV channel in the 2-6 range that you could observe. Line noise shows up as bands of white sparkles that creep slowly up the screen.

I'm going to try the car technique on the way home this afternoon. I'll do a circle through the neighborhood and see if I can get any hits.

An engineer told me I may want to try a channel 4 bandpass filter and see if that helped.

I did the drive around my neighborhood using the AM radio trick. At first I didn't pick up anything close by. About a block away I picked up a really loud hum at an intersection. I was surprised at how loud and strong it was. Is a block away close enough to cause this kind of interference? It was in the general direction that my VHF antenna was pointed.

Is a block away close enough to cause this kind of interference?

Yes

Yes

Then it's definitely time to call the power company. When I call them should I tell them my problem and where I think the interference is coming from? Never done this before so I'm not sure what to say.

I called the power company and tried to explain the problem. The guy on the phone was totally clueless. I pretty much had to make him write down everything I said.

When I come home from work, my wife said Georgia Power called. She said they shut the power off and turned it back on again to fix some kind of problem. What that has to do with impulse noise coming from one of their poles I have no idea but it did nothing for my reception. I'm hesitant to call them again because I think it will do no good.

Edit: My wife calls me today at work and a Georgia Power guy is at my house. I talk to him on the phone and he's really not sure what I'm talking about but he says he's sending an engineer next week to see if we can find the problem. So we shall see.

If the next Georgia Power guy is clueless, too, call the FAA Flight Service station at the Macon Airport and ask the techs there who they usually call (or, ask them to relay your message to them, if they can't/won't give out names).

besides the electric lines is there anything that interferes at 67.25 mhz. that can cause issues. my family is also having problems with their local dig ch 4. signal is strong with great line of sight with towers less than 8 miles away.

I googled 67.25 mhz and found this that was interesting especially in regards to the southeast.

http://meo.nasa.gov/outreach2.html

Just an update:

I've been working with two engineers from our local power company. So far they've fixed multiple problems in the neighborhood and still aren't done. They were a bit shocked at how much power line noise was in my area. They've also noticed that the area I found using the AM radio trick is really putting out some noise and are waiting for some equipment to come in from Atlanta to diagnose and correct the problem. They've assured me that they will find and fix the problem.

How did I get them to help me so much? I called the power company and told them if it wasn't fixed I was going to contact the FCC. Worked like a charm. :)

How did I get them to help me so much? I called the power company and told them if it wasn't fixed I was going to contact the FCC. Worked like a charm. :)

Here's what happened in one similar case:

http://www.arrl.org/news/stories/2007/08/30/100/?nc=1

Success!!! Problem is fixed by the power company. I didn't bother to ask them what it was but WMAZ at VHF 4 is now coming in crystal clear. So now here is my final tally...

WMAZ-DT (channel 4) - ~85% no break-ups
WGXA-DT (channel 16) - 95-100% no break-ups
WMGT-DT (channel 40) - 70-80% no break ups
WPGA-DT (channel 32) - 65-70% no break ups

Here's my final equipment tally...

Antenna's Direct 91XG UHF antenna
Wade VIP 306 VHF antenna
Channel Master 7777 pre-amp
filter for channel 29 to prevent overload since 29 is about 15-20 miles away

It took seven months, 3 antennas (3671, 91XG, and VIP 306), multiple pre-amps and filters, and a lot of hard work for me to get the four major networks via OTA antenna. Total cost? I don't even want to think about it.

I'd like to thank everyone here that helped me in this endeavor. I've learned a lot doing this. Hopefully I can share my experience with others.

I bet that 3671 was fine, too bad you can't send one of those antennas back and get a refund. Maybe you can sell it to someone else around your area.

Interesting how much power lines can contribute to the reception of television.

I bet that 3671 was fine, too bad you can't send one of those antennas back and get a refund. Maybe you can sell it to someone else around your area.

Interesting how much power lines can contribute to the reception of television.

Sold the 3671 a while back, unfortunately. I wonder how many other people having problems with VHF reception even know to check for power line interference. If it wasn't for this place I would have never known.

Success!!! Problem is fixed by the power company. I didn't bother to ask them what it was but WMAZ at VHF 4 is now coming in crystal clear.

I'd like to thank everyone here that helped me in this endeavor. I've learned a lot doing this. Hopefully I can share my experience with others.

You've inspired me to take my local power co. to task. Thanks for all the info.

Would you care to post some pics of your rig? I plan to erect just such a stack and would like to see it in action.

Can you send them to Midvale, Utah next?

You've inspired me to take my local power co. to task. Thanks for all the info.

Would you care to post some pics of your rig? I plan to erect just such a stack and would like to see it in action.

I'll try and snap a few pictures and post them for you. First I need to re-aim my VIP306 as it has moved a bit off line. Apparently my brother-in-law didn't tighten the screws enough.