View Full Version : Lumagen HDP Pro & gamma/saturation tweaking


Thunder
03-19-07, 11:55 PM
Can I tweak gamma and color saturation through the Lumagen? I can't seem to find anything about it in the literature. Would I have to upgrade to the Radiance XD for this capability?

usualsuspects
03-20-07, 11:24 AM
Color and hue - MENU -> IN -> CONFIG -> COLR -> COLR -> (COLR, HUE, COLRED, HUERED, COLGRN, HUEGRN) - See page 19 of the new manual (03-13-07)

For grayscale you need to be in service mode: Menu 0910
On the Lumagen support forum:
http://www.convergent-av.co.uk/forum/index.php?t=thread&frm_id=3&rid=0
Look at the stickys near the top of the list - you are looking for:
Thread: Lumagen Advanced Calibration technique
Thread: BASIC SETUP GUIDE
Both of those threads have attached documents with setup info - NOTE:
the new manuals have the correct info for the latest firmware version.
The two sticky documents referenced have outdated conflicting info,
when in doubt, trust the new manuals.

Thunder
03-20-07, 01:59 PM
^ US, appreciate your feedback. So to confirm, color saturation can be addressed through Color and Hue options, correct? Getting an RS1 and want to know whether I can address some concerns arounf color saturation. What about custom gamma tweaks, can the unit do that? It's been reported that lower the gamma on the RS1 can improve the picture.

usualsuspects
03-20-07, 02:55 PM
The gamma for sure can be adjusted at 2,5, or 11 points. Saturation is adjusted with the "color" control in the Lumagen. I have been following some of the RS1 "over-saturation" complaints and it sounds to me like "over-saturation" is more of a laymens description of what the problem looks like, not necessarily a technical term (in other words I'm not sure that a traditional saturation/color control will fix the problem). It sounds like the RS1 has an issue with the "lightness/brightness" of colors, and that is not what a color/saturation control moves. I'm not sure about this, but I advise caution on choosing a scaler until this is straightened out.

Thunder
03-20-07, 08:35 PM
ok good, sounds like I'll be fine with my Lumagen. Thanks

TomHuffman
03-20-07, 09:18 PM
It sounds like the RS1 has an issue with the "lightness/brightness" of colors, and that is not what a color/saturation control moves.Actually, it's the reverse. The RS1's problem is with color saturation. Generally, user color controls adjust color intensity, though they are commonly labeled "Saturation." To adjust real saturation, you need some type of color management system. The Lumagen Radiance will reportedly contains such a control.

Thunder
03-21-07, 01:16 PM
As a follow-up, this is what Alan had to say relating to my original question via email:

"For the lumagen you hit menu, 0910, select, on the remote. This gets you into the service menu. In the user menu under color you will see CMCT something..I dont remember what its called but its four letters. that's the color and gamma management. Gamma is adjustable in 10 ire increments. ts not called gamma, you adjust the luma."

mrlittlejeans
03-30-07, 03:30 PM
So can you use the controls in the lumagen HDP/Q to correct for the incorrect primaries on the RS-1?

Frank D
07-08-07, 11:55 PM
See Tip 5 on the Lumagen site:

http://www.lumagen.com/testindex.php?module=manuals

TomHuffman
07-09-07, 12:51 AM
See Tip 5 on the Lumagen site:

http://www.lumagen.com/testindex.php?module=manualsThis document is a tissue of confusion. It goes back and forth between a CIE chart that plots color saturation and hue of primaries/secondaries and 75% SMPTE color bars that are used to adjust color brightness and hue of the secondaries only. It does not explain that these 2 patterns are used to measure different aspects of color performance. COLOR SATURATION AND COLOR BRIGHTNESS ARE DIFFERENT. Using a color brightness control to adjust saturation will really screw up your image. I have written this so many times on this forum my eyes are beginning to glaze over.

You can use the Vision series to correct for the display's color decoder. This affects color brightness and sometimes the hue of the secondaries. It will NOT correct for oversaturated primaries, such as what we see in the RS1, as the referenced document ultimately concedes. But this is useless for the RS1 in any case, since its color decoder is fine and needs no adjustment.

Lumagen claims in this document and elsewhere that the Radiance will ultimately include a true saturation control. We'll see. A lot of companies have marketed color management systems that claim to adjust the saturation of the primaries, but really don't.

RandyFreeman
07-10-07, 01:44 PM
The Lumagen Vision series has controls that can be used to correct the 75% color points. Since real world video only goes to a maximum value of 75%, this allows you to make the color correction that you need to play movies and video on the JVC RS1 projector.

The new Lumagen Radiance series will offer primary color correction.

Best regards,
Randy Freeman

jrp
07-10-07, 01:56 PM
Tom is correct that the color decoder and the color primaries are not the same. So, the current Vision series can not correct primary errors. I don't have an RS1, but I will believe Tom when he says the RS1 has correct color decoding out to the the 75% color bars. Given this, the Vision will not provide further improvements to color decoding.

To correct outside the 75% color bar points to the primary points, one does need true primary color correction. The Radiance will have this - and we will do it correctly.

What I have been saying is still correct though. Color at the 75% color bar point can be corrected with the Lumagen Vision series. This covers most (but not all) real material for any display/projector with color decoding errors. And there are a lot of displays/projectors out there that have color decoder errors.