Hey all,

Had a question to put out there. After reading numerous threads and reviews on the various subs that are available out there, I'll admit I'm still abit confused (but then again alot in life confuses me anymore hehe).

I'm rebuilding a hometheather in my basement after a fire destoyed the old one we had setup down there. The space is a 21'x24' area where the screen would be located against the further short wall with seating about 1/2 way back in the room.

I have ordered a 5 speaker setup from Onix (rocket 850 package with upgraded rears to the 400 series freestanding speakers). The seating (and screen will be located closer to the wall as compared to in the middle of the room (due to some logistic reasons). I'm planning on using a rx-v2700 to power them. Additionally a 60 or 70" lcos tv.

What I'm looking for out of the sub is something that will give viseral impact to a system used 70%movies/30% music. Right now I'm kind of leaning towards one of the HSU units or SVS units - but which one I have no idea to go with.

Any suggestions or comments are most welcome :)

I'm not sure what type of deal you got on the Rockets, but did you take advantage of teh GC special?

http://www.**********/specials.php

Also, I don't know when your theater will be finished, but if you're a couple of months out, I would get the 2/$999 MFW-15's from AV123. Which with the GC special can save you a few bucks. No one has heard this sub yet, the only reason I gave this suggestion is to save money.

In regards to products currently on the Market, my suggestions would include

Variable tuning, loads of output,
http://www.hsuresearch.com/products/vtf-3-mk3.html

$150 less than HSU, so really an unfair comparison, but fits within your budget, and still will satify
http://www.svsound.com/products-sub-cyl-pcpow2.cfm

And my personal favorite...2 of the following (assuming you can get a deal for buying 2)
http://www.svsound.com/products-sub-box-10nsd.cfm

well I got the Rocket package when it was on special last month at the tail end of things. Should be shipped sometime at the end of the month but I need to finish sheetrocking, paint, carpet (along with repainting the rest of the house - not like I have nothing to do anymore lol). So it doesnt look like that deal combines with any other. I'll admit I'm very excited about giving these puppies a through workout so I have a feeling the basement work will get some priority with them sitting on a pallet in the garage.

How would placement of two subs work in a open back like I'm going to have? I"ll include a diagram to show you what I'm going to setup.

hmmm cant get a diagram out from here, I'll send one when I get home. I know its more than I originally stated, but also how would the SVS PB12-Plus compare in here. I already spend 1000's more than I ever have on speakers (and looking at about another 5k for a tv) so I want this to be a one time thing for me (I had my last system for over 5 years outside of the receiver which was new prior to the fire so I do hold onto things , plus I want to get a roadking again at some point)
Also, I'm not sure how well or easy it would be to place 2 sw's in my layout.

If you go up to $1000, your opening up a whole other can of worms. :-)

The VTF3.3 still holds up in the $1000 range. You just don't get the Parametric EQ, or wood finishes, But you could probably pick up a used Velodyne SMS-1 to help integrate your sub from the leftover money.

2 PB-10 NSD's are the equivalent to 1 PB12-Plus output wise. You just get more placement flexibility with 2 subs. Except you get the Parametric EQ, variable tuning, and custom wood finishes with the Plus series. I would contact SVS, and see what they recommend. They can answer your questions better than I can. Also ask them about the PB12-nsd/2.

If you are going to spend this much money, you should invest in an SPL meter and a decent laptop soundcard as well, and using the free software that is available (TRueRTA, REW (?)), you can make sure you are getting the best out of your system.

As for 2 subs, you don't always have to place them in different locations, you can stack them, which gives you a +6db gain in output. What this does is enable you to save a bit of money if you don't mind the look of 2 subs on top of each other. For example, with 2 PB12-NSD's co-located, they pretty much match up to a PB-12-Plus/2.

I wish I could tell you to get the MFW-15, but without any of us hearing it, that wouldn't be cool. But Mark Seaton has been saying some impressive things about this project:
http://av123forum.com/showpost.php?p=347422&postcount=290

I would hate to be in the market for a sub right now....let me rephrase, I would hate to have money to be in the market for a sub right now. ;-) Too many damn options.

Hi smoke

It depends on a couple of things. If you want significant extension down to about 15Hz, something from HSU works well.

The second issue is appearance. For $899 you can get the HSU VTF3.3 plus Turbo delivered. This will give you 112db at 20Hz. Or a pair of HSU VTF-3MKIIs can deliver a ton of bass.

If appearance is really important, it will cost you a good bit more for the performance of the HSU VTF-3.3 plus Turbo.

Regards

For $1,104 you can get the HSU VTF3.3 plus Turbo delivered. This will give you 112db at 20Hz.The price you quoted is for the HO w/turbo. The 3.3 w/turbo would be $899, including shipping.

Well, I can't give you any comparisons unfortunately, but being in a similar situation and having to buy cold I decided to buy an SVS sub. Hasn't arrived yet, so we'll see how it goes. One thing I will say is their presales support was really good. If you have questions about their subs, as I did, e-mail them and ask. They did a real good job answering my questions.

I decided on a 20-39 PCPlus, which was above my original budget but what the heck. Part of the consideration is that you can tune them by inserting port plugs. Lowers overall output but gives lower bass response down in to the subsonics. Another consideration is that the cylinder subs will tuck away in a corner of my room much better. Their size seems to be on par with tower speakers, which I have.

I'd recommend e-mailing the respective manufacturers that you are thinking about and see what they say about their own products, and which you might want to look at.

The price you quoted is for the HO w/turbo. The 3.3 w/turbo would be $899.

Thanks epsilon

That's even better. I guess I was daydreaming.

Regards

Well, I can't give you any comparisons unfortunately, but being in a similar situation and having to buy cold I decided to buy an SVS sub. Hasn't arrived yet, so we'll see how it goes. One thing I will say is their presales support was really good. If you have questions about their subs, as I did, e-mail them and ask. They did a real good job answering my questions.

I decided on a 20-39 PCPlus, which was above my original budget but what the heck. Part of the consideration is that you can tune them by inserting port plugs. Lowers overall output but gives lower bass response down in to the subsonics. Another consideration is that the cylinder subs will tuck away in a corner of my room much better. Their size seems to be on par with tower speakers, which I have.

I'd recommend e-mailing the respective manufacturers that you are thinking about and see what they say about their own products, and which you might want to look at.

Hi Sycraft

I have an SVS 20-39PCi and I like it a lot. I got it for $550 because it was B-Stock. It is in perfect condition.

Howard Ferstler tested the PC-Ultra and it can't keep up with the HSU VTF-3MK3 plus Turbo at 20Hz. The HSU VTF-3MKIII plus Turbo is $899 delivered. The VTF-3MK3 plus Turbo produced 112db at 20Hz, which set a new record. The PC-Ultra started to distort at 106db at 20Hz in the test by Howard Ferstler, in SensibleSound Magazine.

Best Regards

spyboy: That's fine, though I'm not sure what relevance it has on my comment as to what sub I did choose to get (I did buy an SVS, I'm not considering any more) or that e-mailing the manufacturers and asking about what of their products they recommend for a given situation is a good idea.

Also while pure SPL as 20Hz is a neat goal and all, that really isn't something I care about and I imagine many others feel similarly. The question is how does a sub do for what I want. In my case I have no need for levels that high as I find anything much over 95dB total SPL across all frequencies to be too much, and I doubt my neighbours would tolerate it even if I could.

I was simply letting him know what I did in a similar situation. I wanted a sub, decided the ones at the local stores sucked, had to buy cold, the 20-39 PC+ was my choice. The way I came to that decision was doing research online and e-mailing the manufacturers to see what they recommended for my setup (SVS actually recommended a 20-39PCi or PB12NSD based on my initial budget and room size).

I don't recommend buying anything based off of a synthetic test. Performance at a given frequency is fine, but you have to ask yourself if that is really what you are after. Better to look at if it does what you need, and if you like the package and such.

alot of good input here, thanks guys - its greatly appretiated. Yea, to say that I'm abit nervous about what I'm getting into here is an understatement lol . I've never spent anywhere close to this amount of money on speakers before, and I'm putting a sizable amount (to me anyway) in speakers that I never heard or saw for that matter. I'm strickly going by reviews and what others have said regarding with rockets (plus I cant afford to get the studio 100s lol).

I had a HSU sub that I bought back in 2000, so I am familiar with the quality of the product coming from Dr Hsu. It would be easy to just get another from HSU, but there seems to be alot of good press for the SVS.

This has been about the only good thing coming out of this fire was the fact that I get to redo my systems that were shot - and this is overall a HUGE upgrade for us.

I think I'm going to be starting on drywall in the next 2 weeks or so, and looking to have this complete my memorial day at the latest (probably earlier). I'm really only looking at about 2 days worth of drywall max, tape/spackle, paint, then carpet.

Once I get more done in the basement I'll post some pics up here - I know I enjoyed looking at some of the work that others have done here.

alot of good input here, thanks guys - its greatly appretiated. Yea, to say that I'm abit nervous about what I'm getting into here is an understatement lol . I've never spent anywhere close to this amount of money on speakers before, and I'm putting a sizable amount (to me anyway) in speakers that I never heard or saw for that matter. I'm strickly going by reviews and what others have said regarding with rockets (plus I cant afford to get the studio 100s lol).

I had a HSU sub that I bought back in 2000, so I am familiar with the quality of the product coming from Dr Hsu. It would be easy to just get another from HSU, but there seems to be alot of good press for the SVS.

This has been about the only good thing coming out of this fire was the fact that I get to redo my systems that were shot - and this is overall a HUGE upgrade for us.

I think I'm going to be starting on drywall in the next 2 weeks or so, and looking to have this complete my memorial day at the latest (probably earlier). I'm really only looking at about 2 days worth of drywall max, tape/spackle, paint, then carpet.

Once I get more done in the basement I'll post some pics up here - I know I enjoyed looking at some of the work that others have done here.

If you want to spend a lot less, I got an SVS 20-39PCi for $550, B-Stock. It is in perfect condition. Easy to move. Small footprint. Thumbs up.

PS You would have to check the SVS web site every day and jump on one. Please read the fine print. Sometimes the box subs have a little bit of damage. There are pictures of the damage on the web site.

Best Regards

Well, I can't give you any comparisons unfortunately, but being in a similar situation and having to buy cold I decided to buy an SVS sub. Hasn't arrived yet, so we'll see how it goes. One thing I will say is their presales support was really good. If you have questions about their subs, as I did, e-mail them and ask. They did a real good job answering my questions.

I decided on a 20-39 PCPlus, which was above my original budget but what the heck. Part of the consideration is that you can tune them by inserting port plugs. Lowers overall output but gives lower bass response down in to the subsonics. Another consideration is that the cylinder subs will tuck away in a corner of my room much better. Their size seems to be on par with tower speakers, which I have.

I'd recommend e-mailing the respective manufacturers that you are thinking about and see what they say about their own products, and which you might want to look at.

I visited the SVS factory and the 20-39 plus was one of the subs I got to hear. It was an excellent sounding sub for the movies and music that thye demoed for me. I was torn between yours and the 3.3 with turbo. You will be thrilled when you hook it up and hear it.

What should also be noted is that for $999 for a pair this then translates to the equivalent of 6dB more at 2m, or 103-104dB @ 20Hz, and >115dB above 35Hz.


So wait...DUAL 15's will only be $1000??

103db would be an assumed value using outside numbers at 2m. Just think about room gain....that number would probably go up by all indications...

What should also be noted is that for $999 for a pair this then translates to the equivalent of 6dB more at 2m, or 103-104dB @ 20Hz, and >115dB above 35Hz.


So wait...DUAL 15's will only be $1000??

103db would be an assumed value using outside numbers at 2m. Just think about room gain....that number would probably go up by all indications...


If Seaton delivers like he has been saying, dual MFW-15's will be hard to deal with @ $999. Factor in $200 for shipping, and it would still be a bargain for $1200.

We will have to see.

If I was in the market for a sub, I wouldn't even think about spending money right now until I could get my hands on a New Ultra or Dual MFW-15's. Not that there aren't great subs out @ the $1000-$1500 price point now, but I think the envelope for price/performance will be pushed even further.

I know I'm really wondering what those 2 mentioned options are going to do for the price/performance market now.

I just wish we could get some Price and Performance numbers...:D