Dear bass freaks :D,

I'm still busy reading the over 62 pages about the great JL Audio Fathom subs :D. Big respect for this great company and the quality product they deliver. However I live in the netherlands and as of now it is verry difficult to obtain an JL audio sub here in the Netherlands with all the shipping cost, tax etc. Perhaps as an audio modification company I can try to become a reseller myself.. but that is an other story :D

I'm an 2 channel music listner and my whole life on the search for real tight good bass! I'm an bass player myself and i'm searching for the real slamm, impact, speed and artulculation as in a life situation with the verry best PA systems. I'm not into the extreme high spl's but yes.. I want to feel the kickdrum in my chest! with an ultimate speed and attack. I'm user of a Tact RCS2.2 room correction system that allow me to use seperate subwoofers (place them in the corners) and time align the subs with the main speakers. The Tact also calculate sophisticated correction filters for the frequency response. See it as an advanced SMS-1. So going with seperate subs is the way to go for my search for the ultimate bass :D

I was verry interested in the Paradigm Servo-15 V2. I was an owner of Infinity IRS1B, IRS Beta systems before. Both with servo controlled (sub)woofer towers. And the bass was stunning and even hard to surpass with today standards. That leads me to the Servo Subs. Velodyne is not an option because I don't need the DSP and software built in as an owner of the Tact RCS2.2

So what's left is the Paradigm Servo sub and the not so famoes Mackie HRS-120.

After searching and digging on the forums... I felt the Paradigm Servo 15 V.2 isn't that populair. And no one really have something to say about them. are they that boring? bad? do they lack slamm? What is it about this subwoofer that no one really seems to like them?

Who can tell me something or help me out? Or do I really have to go for the Fathoms whatever (money) it takes...? :( :D

I want to combine them with Magnepan MG3.6's ;)

Btw. this is an great forum and it is great to see that expertises from different corners like Pro-audio and Car-audio get combined now in home audio. All groups can learn from each other and better products will be the result ;)

Thanks in advange

Best Regards,
Bas

FWIW, there are Velodyne's with servo and w/o the EQ.

Dear Kal,

Not in the Netherlands on 230 volt ;) :(

Best regards,
Bas

Hey Bas,

I don't think that the Servo-15 is that unpopular it is just that it has not changed much if any recently. So, it is not the hot topic of discussion at the moment.

I think when Velodyne released the DD series with built in EQ with more advnaced servo and 18" model, it took most of the thunder (pun intended) away from the Paradigm. The Servo-15 is a great sub, but it just a bit dated technology wise.

When Paradigm comes out with a new version it will be the "in" thing again....

Ask "The Ear" what he thinks of his Servo-15, I think he still has one.

FWIW, there are Velodyne's with servo and w/o the EQ.

Which models Kal?

The HGS series has servo but does not have built-in EQ.

The DD series has both. See the Velodyne website for details.

Hey Bas,

I don't think that the Servo-15 is that unpopular it is just that it has not changed much if any recently. So, it is not the hot topic of discussion at the moment.

I think when Velodyne released the DD series with built in EQ with more advnaced servo and 18" model, it took most of the thunder (pun intended) away from the Paradigm. The Servo-15 is a great sub, but it just a bit dated technology wise.

When Paradigm comes out with a new version it will be the "in" thing again....

Ask "The Ear" what he thinks of his Servo-15, I think he still has one.

Dear jpmst3,

Thank you for your response. I was hoping for the reaction of theEAR already. :D The change is really small I'm ever able to hear this sub myself since there is no single Servo 15 V.2 here in the Netherlands. However the dutch Paradigm dealer is able to order them. So if ever I decide to go for the (two :D) Paradigm servo 15 v2. I have to buy them unheard in closed box. So it is a risk... but hey it is al about fun in audio :D

So I really hope if someone can comment on the sound, and make the comparisson with the JL audio's. If I play bass over a huge PA system. A thumb on my E string is like TAKKK!!! With a huge attack, drive and slamm. If I reproduce the same E on 90% of all home loudspeakers it is a dull muddy weak reproduction :D I truly believe that the passive filters are 50% couse if it. So now you know where i'm searching for :D Oja... I also listen Organ music with 64 feet pipes :D

Best regards,
Bas

The HGS series has servo but does not have built-in EQ.

The DD series has both. See the Velodyne website for details.

But the HGS series are discontinued.

Hey Bas,

I don't think that the Servo-15 is that unpopular it is just that it has not changed much if any recently. So, it is not the hot topic of discussion at the moment.



Not only that but they don't sell internet direct like some of the subs that dominate this site. And no doubt those companies know their market and probably "work" these forums a great deal.

But the HGS series are discontinued.


Good point. Although, I bet even in the Netherland there are plenty of used HGSs.

Not only that but they don't sell internet direct like some of the subs that dominate this site. And no doubt those companies know their market and probably "work" these forums a great deal.
there is a lot of truth to that and to the op the servo is great for ht and music
i doubt you would be diappointed.

If I could afford it after doing extensive reading here.... I would have gone a different route then I did... With that said, my choices would have been JL f113, Velo DD-15, Paradigm Servo 15 .v2 then down to the SVS Ultra... or something like that in order...

But I opted instead for my beautiful End Table SVS PB12-Plus/2, which is very capable and I am thrilled with, but your tastes are more demanding then mine...

The Paradigm sub is no slouch from all the reading I have done, and from hearing it in person, I was astounded. It is an extremely capable product. Im sure you would be thrilled to death with it. All of those subs are very highly spoken of here, and If anyone can tell you spot on, I would put my money behind "The Ear"

Good luck

Warp

If I could afford it after doing extensive reading here.... I would have gone a different route then I did... With that said, my choices would have been JL f113, Velo DD-15, Paradigm Servo 15 .v2 then down to the SVS Ultra... or something like that in order...

But I opted instead for my beautiful End Table SVS PB12-Plus/2, which is very capable and I am thrilled with, but your tastes are more demanding then mine...

The Paradigm sub is no slouch from all the reading I have done, and from hearing it in person, I was astounded. It is an extremely capable product. Im sure you would be thrilled to death with it. All of those subs are very highly spoken of here, and If anyone can tell you spot on, I would put my money behind "The Ear"

Good luck

Warp

Thank you Warp,

I'm curious to theEAR's response as well. I'm curious in slamm, speed and attack how the Paradigm compares to the JL audio F113. Because i'm an company in audio products I can get the Paradigm Servo 15 with a great reduction. It is fair to state that I can get 4 paradigm servo 15's for the price of two JL audio fanthom's here in the netherlands. choices choices choices.... :D

btw. I heard SVS and it is a great product as well. I miss the times that SVS sold subwoofers with the my beloved Crown K1 amp. By far the best subwoofer amp there is!

Best regards,
Bas

Soundevolution,

You have a PM.

I have yet to hear anything but praise for the Servo v.2. Not sure what the poster above was referring to when he said it hasn't changed much. It wasn't that long ago that they came out with the V2 (I believe after Velo came out with their DD Series). Not, the Servo V2 is MUCH cheaper than the equivalent F113 or the DD-15 or DD-18, so I'm not sure it's an entirely fair comparison. But I'd bet the V2 would likely hold its ground and not get blown away by any means by these much more expensive beasts.

Ed Mullen reviewed the V2 at Secrets, check out his review.

PBC

I have yet to hear anything but praise for the Servo v.2. Not sure what the poster above was referring to when he said it hasn't changed much. It wasn't that long ago that they came out with the V2 (I believe after Velo came out with their DD Series). Not, the Servo V2 is MUCH cheaper than the equivalent F113 or the DD-15 or DD-18, so I'm not sure it's an entirely fair comparison. But I'd bet the V2 would likely hold its ground and not get blown away by any means by these much more expensive beasts.

Ed Mullen reviewed the V2 at Secrets, check out his review.

PBC

Well said.

I can say the Servo 15 V.2 competes well in sound quality with a Velo HGS18 and JL subwoofers.As well as Aerial and Revel.

And Ed Mullen and a few other respected reviewers did praise the newer V.2 Servo. Those who may bash it should have one at home and compare to direct competition.No need to redesign a great product. And the Servo V.2 is a great sub.

I've been lurking the forums for awhile and don't actually recall any real "bashing" of Servo 15. Performance and Build wise I would recommend it - but then again I may be bias as I own one. I do hear more about "getting more for the money" comments when comparing to ID companies (which is possibly true), but the Servo 15 stands on it's own amongst other often noted consumer subs.

It's all relative, it's not an inexpensive sub, but I believe cost less than some other (non ID) subs that it's often compared to. As for being "outdated" technology of Servo 15 - I don't get? It doesn't have on-board EQ, but what other consumer Servo has "better" Servo technology? Truly asking this for my education...

Edit: To the OP - if set-up properly, you will "feel" the slam of the kick drum and the pipe organs and the Servo 15 will think nothing of it ;) . If you do get two...well even better.

The one time I heard a Servo15v2 it more than impressed me. Fantastic subwoofer. Clean sound. Goes low. Kicks like a mule.

Tim

This may be "off the wall" but after looking at your background and requirements, why not some good pro sound subs? JBL makes some killer 18" subs in several flavors and if size is not a huge concern, the Madison 18" horns look very interesting.

-Eli

This may be "off the wall" but after looking at your background and requirements, why not some good pro sound subs? JBL makes some killer 18" subs in several flavors and if size is not a huge concern, the Madison 18" horns look very interesting.

-Eli

Dear TJEI,

You have a good point. And I was thinking about it also. PA/pro audio drivers with a "Stiff" suspension often offer a real tight slamming bass. The downsides are that most of the time they don't reach the lowest 16-24Hz. range. An other downside is that I have to built an enclosure etc. Offcourse it is a lot of fun to do but I have hardly any time to do so. Since i'm an perfectionist I can only do it good or do it not :D So for now I want to have a quick and easy all in one package so I can enjoy music fast! :D

Also Weird enoguh I never hear any one about the Mackie HRS120 and the disscontinued HRS150 subwoofers. (theEAR as a sub fanatic you really have to hear those!!) Both servo controlled, with PA drivers with stiff suspension. The Mackie subs really rule!! They are all about speed, slamm and articulation.

http://www.mackie.com/products/hrs120/index.html
http://www.mackie.com/products/hrs150/

I was in love with the HRS-150 but it is so obsolete to find. That is what brings me to the JL audio's and the Paradigms. The JL audio will likley outperform at least the smaller Mackie.

Best regards,
Bas

After searching and digging on the forums... I felt the Paradigm Servo 15 V.2 isn't that populair. And no one really have something to say about them. are they that boring? bad? do they lack slamm? What is it about this subwoofer that no one really seems to like them?This would pair very well with your Maggies. The Servo doesn't have as much output as other "popular" choices on this board but IMO it is one of the most musical subs I've heard. As for 64ft organ stops, I was also in that boat. I ended upgrading (to a huge DIY design) to get that extra headroom and oomph below 20 Hz. 1 servo-15 will get you 80% of the way there and 2 servo-15s will get you all the way there (IMO).

As for bass reproduction, it should be noted that rock recordings mic the speaker (vs the direct output of the guitar or amp). If you are comparing a recording of the guitar to the sound through your stack then that's OK. Don't compare it with playing the guitar through your sub. VERY IMPORTANT: A large component of that "TAKKK" sound is 50Hz and above (just like the slap of a kick drum, etc.). Your main speakers may be lacking in the dynamic impact department (Maggies are not known for this). Give a listen to the sub with some dynamic speakers (say Paradigm Signature S8s, etc.) and see if the cones give you that impact that you're looking for.

Good luck on your search...

Dear TJEI,

That is what brings me to the JL audio's and the Paradigms. The JL audio will likley outperform at least the smaller Mackie.

Best regards,
Bas

You might find the JL will likely outperform even the larger Mackie...

Newer design drivers..... I wish I had one...

I own both an Aerial SW12, and the Paradigm servo 15. I read an above post that the paradigm competes well w/the Aerial and Velodyne DD15. Not a chance. The Paradigm can sound "boxy" and is not as musical as the DD series, OR the Aerial. As a matter of fact, if anyone is interested, PM me, as I am looking to get the Velodyne DD15 as my next upgrade. Now, dont get me wrong, this is a good sub, and does great with movies, but I find, for music, it just isnt on the same level as Velodyne, or Aerial, but a fine choice for HT.

I own both an Aerial SW12, and the Paradigm servo 15. I read an above post that the paradigm competes well w/the Aerial and Velodyne DD15. Not a chance. The Paradigm can sound "boxy" and is not as musical as the DD series, OR the Aerial. As a matter of fact, if anyone is interested, PM me, as I am looking to get the Velodyne DD15 as my next upgrade. Now, dont get me wrong, this is a good sub, and does great with movies, but I find, for music, it just isnt on the same level as Velodyne, or Aerial, but a fine choice for HT.

The Servo 15 is boxy!!!!! :eek: Something is not right. I will not argue over what you hear,but my Servo 15 v.2 is not boxy and I would like to hear from known reviewers who tsted this sub to comment. It is not as good as a DD15,I totally agree to the obvious...but boxy! :o

A well built,highly regarded sealed servo sub...boxy. OUCH I will have to set my top subs side by side and listen again,this is some news!

Bas,

Here are some reviews of the Paradigm V2

http://www.hometheatersound.com/equipment/paradigm_servo_15_v2.htm
http://www.hometheaterhifi.com/volume_12_3/paradigm-servo-15-subwoofer-7-2005-part-1.html

And the original Servo-15 (400 watt amp and dated driver versus current specs)
http://www.stereophile.com/subwoofers/955/index.html
The above review compares the Servo to the Velo FSR-18

I have heard the V15a in a friend's house and can say that it sounds awesome for a 6 year old product. I also had the chance to hear the V2 newer version at a paradigm dealer and had I been able to haggle the dealer down a couple hundred more I would have bought it. Boxy is not a word I would use to describe this sub. I have not had a chance to hear the DD series or Aerial, only made a comment based on what I've read from others who have compared them on various websites!

I have the original Servo-15 in my small system and, since it has no crossover/filter, it gets better with each upgrade in associated electronics. Running it with the Meridian 861 or the SMS-1 or, currently, with the Audyssey SEq, I have no desire to upgrade/replace it.

I should say that my Paradigm sub is the older model, not the v2, if that makes any difference. And boxy is the only word I can think of to describe how it sounds to me when I am near the sub, as I had to be obviously, for all of the numerous location changes to get integrated properly into the system. Now, I have swapped places with the subs to see if it was just me, or how the sub performed in each location, including direction it faced, and still come to the same conclusion, and I have heard a few people comment that I shouldnt have this problem, but, here it is! Maybe its the sub? Knowing my luck, I wouldn't be surprised if there is one little thing throwing everything off kilter? Looks like the DD15 is my only option!

I should say that my Paradigm sub is the older model, not the v2, if that makes any difference. And boxy is the only word I can think of to describe how it sounds to me when I am near the sub, as I had to be obviously, for all of the numerous location changes to get integrated properly into the system. Now, I have swapped places with the subs to see if it was just me, or how the sub performed in each location, including direction it faced, and still come to the same conclusion, and I have heard a few people comment that I shouldnt have this problem, but, here it is! Maybe its the sub? Knowing my luck, I wouldn't be surprised if there is one little thing throwing everything off kilter? Looks like the DD15 is my only option!

It's no wonder you are not happy with the performance. The V1 has 1/3 the power and around half the excursion, huge difference...

jp, the power is not an issue, it never gets turned up beyond 40%, volume isnt a factor here, Im all for quality bass, not loud bass.
But, if its that much worse, I'll be a proud velodyne owner in no time!

jp, the power is not an issue, it never gets turned up beyond 40%, volume isnt a factor here, Im all for quality bass, not loud bass.
But, if its that much worse, I'll be a proud velodyne owner in no time!

I understand where you are coming from.

But, I find that sometimes having a more capable amp and or driver yield more than increased output. A better combo often results in a better result, irrespective of SPL.
Is that the case with the V2, I don't know for sure. You would need to audition one to be sure....

Also about the "boxy" comment.

The boxy sound would hardly fit a subwoofer cut under 80Hz,and one as well braced and sealed on top of it all. The Servo be it original or second edition are well braced and stout.

For sub to exibit boxy coloration cabinet construction is often poor or lousy quality driver is used. Ported you have boxy colorations from inapropriate porting(high tuning)and box colorations.

My two cents

so, then why is it?
I dont want "it must be your room", or "try a different location" or "crossover settings are too high, or low" as all of those have been addressed, as well as phase, and polarity through my pre. If there is a logical explanation as to why it would be this way, I will listen, and take to heart. Otherwise, I blame it on the design, or the sub itself? I'm no scientist, but if I compare the two side by side, I can hear it, and so can others. Could be that the Aerial is that much better also, making the Paradigm sound that much "worse" or noticeably different than the Aerial, giving me the impression of "boxy"?
Who knows? I just know that for myself, HT is great w/ the Paradigm, and just ok with music.

cain't speak for the v1 but the v2 i demoed made it hard to decide between
it and a dd-15 price being point i can get the servo for less and then i heard
a dd-18 would love to have that but the price will keep me away.

so, then why is it?
I dont want "it must be your room", or "try a different location" or "crossover settings are too high, or low" as all of those have been addressed, as well as phase, and polarity through my pre. If there is a logical explanation as to why it would be this way, I will listen, and take to heart. Otherwise, I blame it on the design, or the sub itself? I'm no scientist, but if I compare the two side by side, I can hear it, and so can others. Could be that the Aerial is that much better also, making the Paradigm sound that much "worse" or noticeably different than the Aerial, giving me the impression of "boxy"?
Who knows? I just know that for myself, HT is great w/ the Paradigm, and just ok with music.

On music the Aerial is more natural,if I can use that term. Yes

How high where the subs crssed over at when doing the comparo? Each time I was listening to the original Servo 15 it was cut low(around 40Hz)so this is maybe why I never noticed any lacking.And for the Servo 15 v.2 it is cut at 60Hz,no boxy signature to be heard,and I heard boxy sounding speakers and subs so I have a good idea what to listen for.But even crossed over higher no flaw jumped on me.

What can I say,the Aerial is a superior sub,no question. I think if Kal Rubinson likes his Servo 15 it is not because of boxy colorations.

I have had numerous crossover settings, as low as 35, but settled on 65, as it helped get rid of some nasty room nodes.
What someone else has experience with in their setup, does not equate to an "end all" so to speak, as well as my own. So Kal's experiences dont matter one bit as far as changing the experiences I personally have, but I am glad to hear that his is working out just fine for him.
I think its possible that this sub (paradigm) just doesnt mate well with my Aerials, and the sound it produces, is just so different from them, that I notice it more than I, or someone else might?
This thread wasnt about my setup, or problems though, I was just giving a little input on personal experience. What I experience has no value except for what someone "may" encounter thats all.

This would pair very well with your Maggies. The Servo doesn't have as much output as other "popular" choices on this board but IMO it is one of the most musical subs I've heard. As for 64ft organ stops, I was also in that boat. I ended upgrading (to a huge DIY design) to get that extra headroom and oomph below 20 Hz. 1 servo-15 will get you 80% of the way there and 2 servo-15s will get you all the way there (IMO).

As for bass reproduction, it should be noted that rock recordings mic the speaker (vs the direct output of the guitar or amp). If you are comparing a recording of the guitar to the sound through your stack then that's OK. Don't compare it with playing the guitar through your sub. VERY IMPORTANT: A large component of that "TAKKK" sound is 50Hz and above (just like the slap of a kick drum, etc.). Your main speakers may be lacking in the dynamic impact department (Maggies are not known for this). Give a listen to the sub with some dynamic speakers (say Paradigm Signature S8s, etc.) and see if the cones give you that impact that you're looking for.

Good luck on your search...

Dear Greg,

Wel if the cd is recorderd with miced guitar amp. I want it to sound like that at home. If the bass player use an D.I. or plugged in direct into the mixing console... I want to hear it as well. My point is.. If the slamm and the attack is there i the recording, I want to reproducte it at home.

Currently I don't own the maggie's yet.

I'm owner of the B&W Matrix-800

http://www.arduman.com/aa/Resimler/mufit/syst.jpg

B&W haters.... Don't even try to bash my beloved B&W's!! :D They are great! But it is time to move on.. ;)

But I want to try something different. I want to built a system like the Genesis 1 or the Apogee Grand. Cone sub bass combined with Planar mid-highs. The Maggie's lacks dynamics because they can not produce the real world bass. I want to cross the maggie's at 70Hz. and let the sub fill in below. You will see how Dynamic they can be if you use them smart.

If people don't have and roomcorrection system or (automatic) equalizer. The Velodyne DD series are superiour to many subs. Aoustics are everything, and you sub will sound as good as your acoustics are. In many cases suck! In my opinion every sub should be equalized and corrected to get a real flat response in the room. That is why I respect velodyne for their great software. I also like the JL audio ARO that only remove the biggest peak with one filter. But personaly I prefer more bands of (parametric) equalisation, or even better custom calculated correction filters like the Tact RCS2.2 does. The Tact even compensate for group delay.

Best regards,
Bas

I have had numerous crossover settings, as low as 35, but settled on 65, as it helped get rid of some nasty room nodes.
What someone else has experience with in their setup, does not equate to an "end all" so to speak, as well as my own. So Kal's experiences dont matter one bit as far as changing the experiences I personally have, but I am glad to hear that his is working out just fine for him.
I think its possible that this sub (paradigm) just doesnt mate well with my Aerials, and the sound it produces, is just so different from them, that I notice it more than I, or someone else might?
This thread wasnt about my setup, or problems though, I was just giving a little input on personal experience. What I experience has no value except for what someone "may" encounter thats all.

One thing is sure,if you mains are made by Aerial Acoustics the SW will match better than the ervo 15.This is only natural.

In any case keep what works best in your system.Some very highly regarded procucts sometimes disapoint,this is not new.I have had a few misses in audio gear too,and returned a few units to the store.

Bas,

B&W Matrix 800! Great speakers,I do not see who could even be so ignorant as to bash them. :confused:

At one time I regarded these speakers as the best speakers and a reference.And to this day they are some of the better speakers in the high end.

Man with speakers like this I only see a DD18/f113 or two.To do justice to the bottom end.

The Servo-15 V2 is a reference subwoofer. Powerful, clean, linear, deep, bullet-proof, and no audible artifacts even under heavy drive loads. Anyone considering the latest class of high perf sealed subwoofers should have the Servo-15 V2 on the short list.

I have had numerous crossover settings, as low as 35, but settled on 65, as it helped get rid of some nasty room nodes.
What someone else has experience with in their setup, does not equate to an "end all" so to speak, as well as my own. So Kal's experiences dont matter one bit as far as changing the experiences I personally have, but I am glad to hear that his is working out just fine for him.
I think its possible that this sub (paradigm) just doesnt mate well with my Aerials, and the sound it produces, is just so different from them, that I notice it more than I, or someone else might?
This thread wasnt about my setup, or problems though, I was just giving a little input on personal experience. What I experience has no value except for what someone "may" encounter thats all.OK. I have not had the Aerial in my house but, from what I have heard/seem at shows, it may very well be a superior sub, especially when mated with Aerial main speakers. However, the type of "boxy" sound does not correlate with frequencies below 65Hz and must be due to something else. Note that I found that the performance of the Servo15, or indeed any sub, could be greatly improved with good acoustic treatment and, more significantly in most cases, effective equalization in the range you are using the sub.

I have 2 Servo v1's and I would defiantly say boxy would be the farthest thing from my experience. Also not good with music? I'm pretty sure the servo 15 is considered one of the best musically inclined subs you can buy.
I dunno I've had the dd15, dd18 as well as 2 servo v2's for in home auditions but other than the huge price of the velos and of course the dd18 was fricken SWEET! at my listening levels the didn't make me want to buy something else. Though I will say We had the 4 servos all hooked up and calibrated and bout the only thing I could do was :) until my face hurt lol

I have no reason to say something about a piece of gear I personally own, I dont make em, nor do I have any stake it the sales of it, or for that matter what someone else may own.
I can understand where an owner might defend their purchase though, as it makes sense to not want to hear the deficiencies something you own may have. That being said, I stick to my assesment, I own the thing, it is what it is, and a Velodyne, or Aerial IT IS NOT.
It (once again) is FINE w/ HT, just not the greatest when it comes to MUSIC. To each his own, glad to hear some others w/ good experiences, and are happy, thats great, but to continue to defend a product, and try to get me to believe its my room, or my settings just aint gonna work, I know what it is, and isnt capable of doing since I OWN IT, and have spent the money on it, and spent COUNTLESS hours finding the correct (for my room) placement, and settings to have it perform at its full capabilities, but when put head to head against other better quality subs (velodyne, Aerial) its weaknesses become a bit more evident.
Keep in mind what I hear, and what others may hear are opinions only, and personal experiences, I have not once said it was a bad sub, but FOR ME, it is not as musical as the Aerial, or Velodynes I have compared it to.

Dear,

It come all to personal taste, preferences etc. One of my customemrs have the Arial sub (imported from the US.) and I don't like that sub at all. For me it is not tight enough and I hear coloration in the 30 tot 60Hz. region. I like transparant tight and black sounding lowend. The Arial sounds Brown in my opinion. It also lacks the Impact I wish for.

Best regards,
Bas

the one thing i have noticed that if you want tight deep clean bass with high spl
you are looking at the 2000.00 and up club .

the one thing i have noticed that if you want tight deep clean bass with high spl
you are looking at the 2000.00 and up club .

Dear Oztech,

Yes I'm affriad you are right.. But I can live with that. Quality comes at a price and I totally udnerstand that. Currently the Paradigm Servo 15 v.2 is on top of my list. Mebey even 4 of them.... :D

4 because:

-With proper placement I can get rid of more room nodes
-Increassed SPL and sensitivity is less cone movement so less distortion
-More air movement is more slamm in the chest
-Quantum reduction if I buy more :D

Best regards,
Bas

Dear Oztech,

Yes I'm affriad you are right.. But I can live with that. Quality comes at a price and I totally udnerstand that. Currently the Paradigm Servo 15 v.2 is on top of my list. Mebey even 4 of them.... :D

4 because:

-With proper placement I can get rid of more room nodes
-Increassed SPL and sensitivity is less cone movement so less distortion
-More air movement is more slamm in the chest
-Quantum reduction if I buy more :D

Best regards,
Bas
i will be happy with one if my income tax is kind to me.

The Servo-15 V2 is a reference subwoofer. Powerful, clean, linear, deep, bullet-proof, and no audible artifacts even under heavy drive loads. Anyone considering the latest class of high perf sealed subwoofers should have the Servo-15 V2 on the short list.

Very well said. That comparable short list IMO would include the Velo DD-15 and the JL112. Four of the Servo v2s would be a helluva sweet sound system. :cool:

Soundevolution, I would seriously look into the Velodyne DDseries. There does seem to be some Paradigm owners here that are very happy (me too, but not as thrilled), but at least give yourself the chance to listen to the velodyne DD15, or DD18. And if you say that you think the Aerial is not tight enough, then you surely wont be happy with the Paradigm. BUT, the Velodyne on the other hand, seems to be one of your better options, and they can be had for a few dollars less than the Aerial depending on the size you choose.

Soundevolution, I would seriously look into the Velodyne DDseries. There does seem to be some Paradigm owners here that are very happy (me too, but not as thrilled), but at least give yourself the chance to listen to the velodyne DD15, or DD18. And if you say that you think the Aerial is not tight enough, then you surely wont be happy with the Paradigm. BUT, the Velodyne on the other hand, seems to be one of your better options, and they can be had for a few dollars less than the Aerial depending on the size you choose.
i just reread the whole thing and i noticed that you said yours is a v1 not that
there is anything wrong with that one but paradigm stepped up things considerably
with the v2.

i just reread the whole thing and i noticed that you said yours is a v1....................Yeah but so is mine. :)

I guess I should also respond the way I've been told about my paradigm sub on this thread . As far as the Aerial goes, I think the room you heard it in was probably not set up right! That, or the crossover settings are all wrong, OR their was no room treatments. SOMETHING had to be amiss for the Aerial to sound bad to you! If it was improperly setup there is no way it will do what you need it too! And if it didnt sound tight, Im gonna go out on a limb and say that it was too close to a corner, and if it sounded "brown" it was probably too close to something that it didnt integrate well with, or the phase was not properly adjusted! Probably facing the wrong direction even.
This is all in fun of course, but hopefully you can see my point about how someone will defend a piece of equipment they personally own. In this case I just happen to own something I dont really think performs like others on this particular thread think it does.
Get out there and demo what you can, I'll be interested to see what your conclusions are after you make a decision, and what you ultimately end up purchasing. And I'm guessing whichever route you go, YOU will think you did just fine, and might even get a few others that feel the same way! And, you'll probably be right.

Cute and, although your tongue is firmly planted in your cheek, you are not wrong.

Any of the subs mentioned in this thread(Aerial SW12 and Paradigm Servo 15 first and second version),are terrific subs. The original Servo 15 retail price was very interesting and when you got a good deal from a dealer...a true bargain of the sub world.

When the Servo 15(the original)was released I was too poor(yes working for peanuts)to buy one.I could only listen and drool. :( Now since a few good years things have changed a good damn lot and even with all my subs and some outstanding ones(Aerial,JL,Velo HGS,Revel)I feel the Paradign Servo 15 v.2 can go toe to toe with the best of them in sound quality.

Some even feel the first revision while being capable of less SPL has even better sound quality! This can be debated but lets just say it is one of the best products Paradigm has ever released,and it competed more than well against Velodyne's servo subs.

Thanks Kal, I try!

Soundevolution, I would seriously look into the Velodyne DDseries. There does seem to be some Paradigm owners here that are very happy (me too, but not as thrilled), but at least give yourself the chance to listen to the velodyne DD15, or DD18. And if you say that you think the Aerial is not tight enough, then you surely wont be happy with the Paradigm. BUT, the Velodyne on the other hand, seems to be one of your better options, and they can be had for a few dollars less than the Aerial depending on the size you choose.

Dear davidpa,

A custommer of me have a Velodyna DD18. Yes they are great! I mean really great!and it is the sound I truly go for. However. The DD series have a bounch of software I simply don't need and want because I use the Tact RCS 2.2X system that is far superior to Velodyns correction system. The Tact (also) works in the time domain and can even improve group delay of a sub.

http://www.tactlab.com/Products/RCS22XP/SubIntegration.html

With the Tact RCS2.2X it is truly possible to integrate and time align your sub with your main speakers and get a extreme flat response and an as good as possible impulse response.

About the Arial SW-12. It was a proper setup, but mebey I prefer the sound of sealed subwoofers. I also was not satisfied with the Arials real deep bass between 16 and 32Hz. With my Pipe Organ torture the low C of 27,5Hz. had no power and drive anymore. The Arial sagged at this frequency and below. From 35Hz. it comes to life but I really wish for a "tigther" lowend. For me it was not worth the money, but I have to say he looks great! I will give the Arial a second change anyway ;)

What happend with the SVS b4 btw? It was by far the most impressive SVS I ever heard. Not really what I want, but for HT I think it is one of the best subs you can get. A really really scarry sub :D

Best regards,
Bas

Bas,

My solution was to find Velodyne HGS models that have the built in servo but without the room correction as I already have the SMS-1.

Bas,

My solution was to find Velodyne HGS models that have the built in servo but without the room correction as I already have the SMS-1.

Dear JimP,

Yes that can be a solution. But I searched all the dutch marketplaces and I can not even find one on the used market. Import from the US. is not really a option with the different voltage of 110 volt :(

Best regards,
Bas

Dear JimP,

Yes that can be a solution. But I searched all the dutch marketplaces and I can not even find one on the used market. Import from the US. is not really a option with the different voltage of 110 volt :(

Best regards,
Bas
The PS is a wall wart which a competent tech could replace with another.

The PS is a wall wart which a competent tech could replace with another.

Dear Kal,

Well as an audio design and modification company we had some Velodyns here for repair/modification on the workbench. And as far I remember it are all switched power (pwm) design's that are not esay replacable like, a transformer in a linear powersupply system. I also know that Velodyne is difficult to the dutch market and not very supportive ;)

The last thing is an good reasson to avoid such an brand ;) I hate companys that are not supportive.

Best regards,
Bas

About the Arial SW-12. It was a proper setup, but mebey I prefer the sound of sealed subwoofers. I also was not satisfied with the Arials real deep bass between 16 and 32Hz. With my Pipe Organ torture the low C of 27,5Hz. had no power and drive anymore. The Arial sagged at this frequency and below. From 35Hz. it comes to life but I really wish for a "tigther" lowend. For me it was not worth the money, but I have to say he looks great! I will give the Arial a second change anywayMy main issue with the Aerial is all the audible port distortion at high SPLs. At low volumes it's a nice unit. However, start getting near reference levels and it turns into a leaf blower (literally). Stand 10 feet in front of it during some organ music and the port chugging is very audible (I've heard 4-5 different setups with these subs). Frankly, if I'm going to spend that amount of money on a sub I'd like it to reach it's limits gracefully. Bas, if organ reproduction is important to you then I'd take a look elsewhere.

Hey, Greg, Im in the Ptld area, had no idea there was a thread on HT meets around here. I'd be more than happy to have you out here to listen to this setup, where YOU could do a comparison between the Paradigm, and Aerial. That way, theres another member on here that can see/hear what I'm talking about. Ive tried my damndest to get the Aerial to sound like a leaf blower, Cant seem to make it happen, but I have heard of it making a "pop" noise every now and then (just not here yet), maybe I'll turn it up a bit just for the hell of it. Give me a PM, it'd be nice to see what others are doing to their rooms around here as well.

My main issue with the Aerial is all the audible port distortion at high SPLs. At low volumes it's a nice unit. However, start getting near reference levels and it turns into a leaf blower (literally). Stand 10 feet in front of it during some organ music and the port chugging is very audible (I've heard 4-5 different setups with these subs). Frankly, if I'm going to spend that amount of money on a sub I'd like it to reach it's limits gracefully. Bas, if organ reproduction is important to you then I'd take a look elsewhere.


I would agree to some extent.

The Aerial looks like it is underported,when playing my fave sub testing sine waves the port noise can clearly be heard.But this is at levels I would not listen to muisc at all and with HT will be masked by the remaining action.

Pipe organs,now here we are pushing the sub,and yes it will be audible when again...pushing the volume.

Under humane listening levels the Aerial however is one amazing sub,amazing from the standpoint of bass quality.As output wise much less costly SVS come close and even best it in pure SPL.

It overall a great package for a music system,for HT and in larger rooms multiples have to be used.

TheEar, thats where the difference is. Quality. Output, for me anyways doesnt mean a thing, I dont need to shake the entire neighborhood with my powerful bass! Bass that steals the show isnt even fun to listen to, filling in the low end with authority, or a punch in the gut so to speak, seamlessly is what stands out to me. Although, it gets done anyhow. There are so many subs out there that play loud, as that is easy to do, but to sound natural, thats a whole nother deal.
Its kind of funny though, I do have friends that come over, and while getting ready for a movie, they say, "wheres all the bass" you've got your subs on right? And I will respond, give it a sec, when its there, you'll know, and sure enough, when the info is there, they finally see, and understand what quality bass is. Integration, not overpowering.
Then, I will put on some music, and they get an even better representation of quality, over quantity, where both become the same if setup right, and add to the whole experience, instead of standing out on its own.

David,

I hear you.

In audio it is sound quality first,loudness or should I say headroom is great to have but we know the Aerial is capable of plenty high SPL before reaching its limits or even close.

Like a great quality pair of 15W OTL tube amps on ultra transparent efficient speakers. There is no replacement for purity when you reach the upper echeleons of audio reproduction. Musicality it where it is at,when the music is all that remains you are there.

I use three subs alot with music one the JL's second the Aerial and the big Velo HGS. The Paradigm is now working with the Revel B15 as part of a HT setup with the Klipsch subs. Each subs has strong points and weaker ones.The Aerial is up there,way up there in a fine music system,doing duty 40hz down with larger mains. In this case my Dynes,great combo.

How much does the aerial go for these days? Just looking to do a cost comparison between it and the servo 15.

Used, you can find an Aerial for around 2500.00. New, around 5.

So, there is a HUGE difference in price, and as far as I'm concerned quality.

www.aerialacoustics.com

Also, I think there is an Aerial sub on Agon right now? Havent looked in the last week or so, so I could be wrong.

Well I guess this is why I love canada, I can get the servo v2 for $2100 cdn. This aerial looks pretty sweet but I would imagine be quite pricey for us canucks. Though I sure would love to hear one. :)

Wow, that is a great looking sub though!

Sorry, I have to take back my original comment, I believe I was thinking of the ACI Maestro when I mentioned I've read some favourable reviews of the Servo versus the DD-18 and Aerial. Meant to say the DD and ACI!

Ooops.