Hello All,

I need a recommendation for a front firing sub in the $600.00 - $700.00 price range. I'm replacing a Mirage S-12 for cosmetic reasons (don't like the black & silver). The size isn't that big of a factor. I need something that can hit 20HZ but is fairly loud over 30HZ like the Mirage is. Any recommendations asside from a down firing HSU. I have narrowed my search to these two subs or perhaps an Energy S12.3 which is a all black sister sub to the Mirage.

The SB-12 will not hit 20Hz with much authority. Anechoicly it is down 6-7 db at 20 Hz. In room it will be a little better. It just depends on how much want at 20Hz.

So, you may have to go with the PB-12 by default. It will have more output all levels.

The SB-12 will not hit 20Hz with much authority. Anechoicly it is down 6-7 db at 20 Hz. In room it will be a little better. It just depends on how much want at 20Hz.

So, you may have to go with the PB-12 by default. It will have more output all levels.

Well I live in a co-op so I'm not trying to bring down the walls but I like to have some oommphh at 20hz. Any idea which is louder above 30hz? Or any other recommendations?

How do you think the PB-12 would compare to the Mirage S-12?

Well I live in a co-op so I'm not trying to bring down the walls but I like to have some oommphh at 20hz. Any idea which is louder above 30hz? Or any other recommendations?

How do you think the PB-12 would compare to the Mirage S-12?

I have never heard a Mirage, but I would suspect that the PB-12 would outperform it based on other owners.

The SB is a small sealed box and the PB is a large ported box. Totally different designs in play here. So, the PB will have more output anywhere in the operating range.

The SB will have a little better sound quality in exchange for output.

According to Tom Nousaine's test in his 7500 cu. ft. room with all tests limited to 10% distortion:

Energy 12.3: 20 Hz @ 87dB, 110 Average Max SPL 25-62Hz, Max Output 113dB @ 32Hz.

SVS PB12-nsd: 20Hz @ 96dB, 105 Average Max SPL 25-62Hz, Max Output 109dB @ 32 Hz.

Bandwidth Uniformity: 97% vs. 96% respectively.

I would say the Energy is a very good performer. You have to decide, do you want more output @ 20Hz, or more overall output capabilities.

My deciding factor would be price. The MSRP on the Energy is $800. I'm not sure what you can get it for.

According to Tom Nousaine's test in his 7500 cu. ft. room with all tests limited to 10% distortion:

Energy 12.3: 20 Hz @ 87dB, 110 Average Max SPL 25-62Hz, Max Output 113dB @ 32Hz.

SVS PB12-nsd: 20Hz @ 96dB, 105 Average Max SPL 25-62Hz, Max Output 109dB @ 32 Hz.

Bandwidth Uniformity: 97% vs. 96% respectively.

I would say the Energy is a very good performer. You have to decide, do you want more output @ 20Hz, or more overall output capabilities.

My deciding factor would be price. The MSRP on the Energy is $800. I'm not sure what you can get it for.

Well the Mirage is the twin to the Energy 12.3 and I only paid $500.00 for it. Maybe I should just keep it. I thought the PB12 would be a good choice but I like all the output of 30hz.

Those are solid $800 subs your looking at. Normally the SVS would be a bargain, but not if you can a Mirage or Energy for $500.

PSB 6i

Tom Nousaine’s test (April 2007) shows it has a FR 27 to 119 plus/minus 2.4db.
95 db at 20 Hz, 109 db from 25 to 62 Hz.

PSB 6i

Tom Nousaine’s test (April 2007) shows it has a FR 27 to 119 plus/minus 2.4db.
95 db at 20 Hz, 109 db from 25 to 62 Hz.

What's your point?

What's your point?

The point is that 6i is another performer can be had for less than $500.

Where? On ebay from that 2 bit dealer, with no warranty?

MSRP is $749 on the SubSeries 6i.

Do you think it's worth it to shell out a little more $$$ and get the Hsu VTF-3 Mark III? My main concern is my neighbor below me, I know a down-firing HSU will drive her mad. What do you think?

Where? On ebay from that 2 bit dealer, with no warranty?

MSRP is $749 on the SubSeries 6i.


MSRP for Mirage S12 is $800, people get them for $400 to $500. You can definitely get 6i for 20 to 30% off MSRP if you have a local dealer. If you want to get it from 2 bit dealer on eBay, it does carry manufacture warranty.

6i is front firing and porting, that makes a bit easier for placement.

MSRP for Mirage S12 is $800, people get them for $400 to $500. You can definitely get 6i for 20 to 30% off MSRP if you have a local dealer. If you want to get it from 2 bit dealer on eBay, it does carry manufacture warranty.

6i is front firing and porting, that makes a bit easier for placement.

That's because Vann's had them on clearance for almost a year, which I don't think they are still available. I don't have any Mirage dealers near me, other than Magnolia, and I know you can't get it for $500 there.

If you buy a product on ebay, it will not have a manufacturer's warranty. I'm sure Mirage wouldn't honor anything bought from an unauthorized dealer.

He already has the S12, so his cost for the would be $0. I guess the OP just doesn't like the color scheme on it.

As for PSB, I only have one dealer near me, and since they are the only PSB dealer in town, they aren't going to give any discounts. Especially since they are one of those appointment only dealers with a showroom the size of my master bedroom.

That's because Vann's had them on clearance for almost a year, which I don't think they are still available. I don't have any Mirage dealers near me, other than Magnolia, and I know you can't get it for $500 there.

If you buy a product on ebay, it will not have a manufacturer's warranty. I'm sure Mirage wouldn't honor anything bought from an unauthorized dealer.

He already has the S12, so his cost for the would be $0. I guess the OP just doesn't like the color scheme on it.

As for PSB, I only have one dealer near me, and since they are the only PSB dealer in town, they aren't going to give any discounts. Especially since they are one of those appointment only dealers with a showroom the size of my master bedroom.


I perfectly agree he is not gaining anything performance wise by switching S12 with a PB12. If he is in Canada, he can switch with a 6i and not lose much money with a color he likes. People in Canada can get better deals on these Canadian made subwoofers.

I think I should just pull the trigger and get the side firing HSU it's just a little more. I think that's what I'll do. 109db at 20hz without the Turbo is pretty impressive. It's currently backordered but I'll wait.

Do you think it's worth it to shell out a little more $$$ and get the Hsu VTF-3 Mark III? My main concern is my neighbor below me, I know a down-firing HSU will drive her mad. What do you think?

The HSU is side firing.

The HSU is side firing.

Yeah I know, I just found out. I was really happy to see that. Not so happy about the back order. Right now the HSU seems like the way to go.

Yeah I know, I just found out. I was really happy to see that. Not so happy about the back order. Right now the HSU seems like the way to go.

The MKIII is on back order as well?
I am getting ready to pull the trigger on an HO but they are back ordered too. Hey, when you make a great product, people want it.

I perfectly agree he is not gaining anything performance wise by switching S12 with a PB12. If he is in Canada, he can switch with a 6i and not lose much money with a color he likes. People in Canada can get better deals on these Canadian made subwoofers.

Gotcha!

The MKIII is on back order as well?
I am getting ready to pull the trigger on an HO but they are back ordered too. Hey, when you make a great product, people want it.
HSU is out of stock on pretty much all there subs.

HSU is out of stock on pretty much all there subs.

The rep at HSU told me 2-3 weeks. Oh well, I can wait. Hopefully :D

The rep at HSU told me 2-3 weeks. Oh well, I can wait. Hopefully :D
Yup, thats what they told me as well. I finally got the OK for the VTF3.3 and got a little extra cash and they go and sell out, just my luck. :(

Yup, thats what they told me as well. I finally got the OK for the VTF3.3 and got a little extra cash and they go and sell out, just my luck. :(

Same here, I've been convincing my wife all morning. Wait until she see's the size of this damn thing (25" deep). She's going to have a heart attack :D

For what it's worth, there is no difference between side and down firing as far as it's effect on your neighbors. Low frequencies are transmitted through (and often by) the floor, and if the sub is producing those frequencies, they'll hear it either way, just as you do in the room.

For what it's worth, there is no difference between side and down firing as far as it's effect on your neighbors. Low frequencies are transmitted through (and often by) the floor, and if the sub is producing those frequencies, they'll hear it either way, just as you do in the room.

How about front firing? Is that easier on the neighbors?

For what it's worth, there is no difference between side and down firing as far as it's effect on your neighbors. Low frequencies are transmitted through (and often by) the floor, and if the sub is producing those frequencies, they'll hear it either way, just as you do in the room.

How about front firing? Is that easier on the neighbors?

That is just another side of the box.

Sorry If I sound a bit skeptical, but I always thought that down-firing subs would be more of nusance for your neighbors below you because they use the floor as a loading device. Are saying that a down firing sub or a front firing sub would have the same effect on my neighbors?

I decided to go with PSB Subsonic 6i and I love it. Thanks for everyone's help, including craigsub from the other threads.