The official final DTV Table Of Allotments/channel change thread [Text View] - Page 10

Nitewatchman

02-06-09, 01:32 AM

I just sent you my update file - I did find two stations that seem to meet the requirements. (WPTO and WPTD) Although now in hindsight - maybe not completely. They are in my update, but they didn't include in their notice the notification requirement.

Hope I'm not just rehashing something that's already been noted ... In addition to their Form 387/DTR updates -- You can't find this in CDBS app search, but if you go to TVquery for WPTO/WPTD, click on "station info", then click on "click for details", then click on "correspondance folder", info on new correspondance is shown for them regarding "Notification of Termination of Analog Service" ... It's dated 2/5 however, and an actual Time is given as 4:50PM -- Which of course is AFTER FCC released the Public Notice on the DTV Delay procedures ...

The "correspondance" itself is available (PDF) there as well --- The form used is called :

"Notification of Termination of Analog Service by Feruary 17, 2009" (I can't find a specific form number on the form) ...

In #3 on the forum, there is a selection which they selected which says :

"Notification of Termination of Analog service by February 17, 2009" ...

Here's direct Link to WPTD's form (requires PDF reader) :

http://fjallfoss.fcc.gov/cgi-bin/ws.exe/prod/cdbs/forms/prod/cdbsmenu.hts?context=25&appn=101293989&formid=910&fac_num=25067

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Note: Oh, I know this method involving correspondance folder was described earlier in this thread regarding some of the earlier "feb 17 shut off" filings for BEFORE the FCC notice today, but missed whether Trip was looking for folks to use this method to find the notifications since the new info from FCC notice issued today ...So again, sorry if I'm rehashing something here, if so just disregard ...

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BTW ... Sorry I didn't offer to "help" for trip's new list, as I didn't/don't know whether I'll be able to necessarily check these at any given time over the next several days ... Probably will be able to but can't really "commit" to it as others may be able to do .....

Update: hmm --- The "Notification of termination of analog service by Feburary 17, 2009" forms filed by WPTD/WPTO that show up in their "Correspondance folder" at TV Query do seem to be the form they specify in Footnote 11 near bottom of Page 4 of Today's public notice (FCC 09-6 "FCC Announces Procedures Regarding Termination of Analog Television Service On or After February 17, 2009, Termination Notifications for February 17, 2009Must Be Filed By Monday, February 9 ) .... So, perhaps it's possible these will show up only in "correspondance folder" via TV query and not via CDBS App search?

Here's what it says in Footnote 11 :

11 Notice to the Commission must be provided electronically through the Commission’s Consolidated Database System (“CDBS”) using the Informal Application filing form. To access the CDBS electronic filing system in order
to file an analog service termination notification, go to the Media Bureau’s web site at: http://www.fcc.gov/mb/cdbs.html. Instructions as to how to file these notifications are as follows: After logging into the CDBS, select the last option from main menu “Additional non-form Filings.” From the next menu select “Silent STA/Notification of Suspension.” From the pre-form menu select: “Notification of termination of analog service by February 17, 2009.” No fee is required....

What a Mess !

Rory Boyce

02-06-09, 02:02 AM

I think it is unlikely that the station management and attorneys would have had time to decide how to react to today’s FCC public notice and other news items to be able to make filings the same day. It will be interesting to see how many stations continue to want to go ahead and shut down their analog transmitters on the 17th. We will obviously know over the next few days. The fact that the network O and O’s will stay on until June 12 means that there will continue to be a major analog presence in the bigger markets until then. All of the news stories about the analog shut down being delayed with no mention of the fact that stations could still switch on the 17th is not helping anything.

Here in the Sacramento market it unfortunately seems that the majors will stay on because we have a CBS O and O, a Gannett ABC station and Hearst-Argyle NBC station both of these groups have indicated that most of their stations will stay on. That leaves the FOX station which is owned by Tribune which is in bankruptcy as an unknown.

Nitewatchman

02-06-09, 03:52 AM

I'm not sure about the refiling. I'm thinking that some of these stations already filed STAs and updated their 387s as the FCC wants; might the FCC count those?

On Page 4 of the public notice released today it does say :

.... stations that have already notified the Commission about their intention to terminate on February 17 must, nonetheless, again notify the Commission confirming their intent to terminate on that date and their performance of the required viewer notifications.

Is the "“Notification of termination of analog service by February 17, 2009” form specified in Footnote 11 specific only to the 2/5 public notice/procedure described in footnote 11, or has that form been used previously as well ?

If it is specific to it, it seems to me WPTD/WPTO's filings are likely to be valid for the new procedures regarding the DTV Delay act as outlined in the FCC Public notice to notify FCC of Feb 17 analog shut off (footnote 11) ....

If it isn't specific to it, other than them contacting the stations involved, or involving the date/time of the release of todays' public notice -- I wonder how FCC is sorting out the Feb 17 analog shut off notices filed for "before" the newest procedures regarding DTV Delay act passed by Congress Wed, from the "after", since I do not think they specified a date/time/etc. when the "new" notices could begin, they only specified when the filing period would end ....

I did check a couple of other stations which previously filed notices for Feb 17 analog shut off (one was filed 2/3) which show up in their correspondance folder, In those cases, the form they used was a different one, called "Notification of Suspension of Operations" ... here's an example :

http://fjallfoss.fcc.gov/cgi-bin/ws.exe/prod/cdbs/forms/prod/cdbsmenu.hts?context=25&appn=101293066&formid=910&fac_num=65690

I think it is unlikely that the station management and attorneys would have had time to decide how to react to today’s FCC public notice and other news items to be able to make filings the same day.

Generally, I'd think so too ... Some stations do seem quite certian about shutting off analog on Feb 17, though (good for them, IMO - I wish them good luck with that) ...

One local station here ran the story about the House vote on DTV delay act near the top of their 5pm newscast Wednesday and at same time said they'd still be shutting down analog on feb 17, anyway due to them soon installing a new antenna for digital which will provide a better digital signal to "1,000's of their viewers" ... Their analog is VHF, which uses top mounted Non-DA, Digital is UHF, currently side mounted DA ...

WPTD/WPTO are NCE's (PBS), BTW ...

Trip in VA

02-06-09, 09:01 AM

Hope I'm not just rehashing something that's already been noted ... In addition to their Form 387/DTR updates -- You can't find this in CDBS app search, but if you go to TVquery for WPTO/WPTD, click on "station info", then click on "click for details", then click on "correspondance folder", info on new correspondance is shown for them regarding "Notification of Termination of Analog Service" ... It's dated 2/5 however, and an actual Time is given as 4:50PM -- Which of course is AFTER FCC released the Public Notice on the DTV Delay procedures ...

The "correspondance" itself is available (PDF) there as well --- The form used is called :

"Notification of Termination of Analog Service by Feruary 17, 2009" (I can't find a specific form number on the form) ...

In #3 on the forum, there is a selection which they selected which says :

"Notification of Termination of Analog service by February 17, 2009" ...

Here's direct Link to WPTD's form (requires PDF reader) :

http://fjallfoss.fcc.gov/cgi-bin/ws.exe/prod/cdbs/forms/prod/cdbsmenu.hts?context=25&appn=101293989&formid=910&fac_num=25067

That is EXACTLY what we're going to need to look for. The only problem is that I have NO IDEA how to search for them. WPTO and WPTD don't show up on my website's database in the same way the other stations do, which is where I'd been finding them at first, so I'm not sure what to do. Any thoughts?

Note: Oh, I know this method involving correspondance folder was described earlier in this thread regarding some of the earlier "feb 17 shut off" filings for BEFORE the FCC notice today, but missed whether Trip was looking for folks to use this method to find the notifications since the new info from FCC notice issued today ...So again, sorry if I'm rehashing something here, if so just disregard ...

No, you're absolutely right. I didn't have people looking through these yet because I didn't know where they'd be showing up. I kinda figured we'd see it in the daily updates, but clearly this is not the case.

BTW ... Sorry I didn't offer to "help" for trip's new list, as I didn't/don't know whether I'll be able to necessarily check these at any given time over the next several days ... Probably will be able to but can't really "commit" to it as others may be able to do .....

No sweat, with your connection, it would have been a pain anyway.

Update: hmm --- The "Notification of termination of analog service by Feburary 17, 2009" forms filed by WPTD/WPTO that show up in their "Correspondance folder" at TV Query do seem to be the form they specify in Footnote 11 near bottom of Page 4 of Today's public notice (FCC 09-6 "FCC Announces Procedures Regarding Termination of Analog Television Service On or After February 17, 2009, Termination Notifications for February 17, 2009Must Be Filed By Monday, February 9 ) .... So, perhaps it's possible these will show up only in "correspondance folder" via TV query and not via CDBS App search?

That's what it looks like. I don't know how this is going to work then. It's quickly devolving into the realm of "nearly impossible."

What a Mess !

No kidding.

On Page 4 of the public notice released today it does say :

Is the "“Notification of termination of analog service by February 17, 2009” form specified in Footnote 11 specific only to the 2/5 public notice/procedure described in footnote 11, or has that form been used previously as well ?

No, it's a new form.

If it is specific to it, it seems to me WPTD/WPTO's filings are likely to be valid for the new procedures regarding the DTV Delay act as outlined in the FCC Public notice to notify FCC of Feb 17 analog shut off (footnote 11) ....

Yep, these two do count.

I did check a couple of other stations which previously filed notices for Feb 17 analog shut off (one was filed 2/3) which show up in their correspondance folder, In those cases, the form they used was a different one, called "Notification of Suspension of Operations" ...

I'd been using those as well, but they were much more of a pain to find.

Generally, I'd think so too ... Some stations do seem quite certian about shutting off analog on Feb 17, though (good for them, IMO - I wish them good luck with that) ...

One local station here ran the story about the House vote on DTV delay act near the top of their 5pm newscast Wednesday and at same time said they'd still be shutting down analog on feb 17, anyway due to them soon installing a new antenna for digital which will provide a better digital signal to "1,000's of their viewers" ... Their analog is VHF, which uses top mounted Non-DA, Digital is UHF, currently side mounted DA ...

WPTD/WPTO are NCE's (PBS), BTW ...

Thanks for all your help on this, I think you fully sorted out the situation. The question now is where do we go from here? If they're showing up in notices like that, I think they'll show up instantly, in which case it might be possible to see today's filings as of tonight, instead of waiting for the CDBS update after midnight. Does that sound sensible?

I'll keep my eyes open.

- Trip

Trip in VA

02-06-09, 09:25 AM

I have class at 10 and 11, then I'm "free" (two homework assignments due by 5PM, one of which I've already decided not to do) for the rest of the day. Hopefully we'll get something figured out. I'm not wanting to have to check each station each day, though if we can distribute it among 10 or more people, it'll make the job easier, assuming that's what it comes to.

With 1800 TV stations, distributed across 10 people would be 180. If I can get more people involved (say, 20), that's 90 stations per person. Innundated, justalurker, dline, would any of you be interested if that's what had to happen?

Anyone have any thoughts on this?

- Trip

mathwhiz

02-06-09, 09:30 AM

I have many thoughts about what could be done - but so far none are legal. I'm not seeing any easy way yet to get the information except to go into each station's record and check for that form. For me - it would be easier if the data we provide listed each station (so we have an easy list to work from) and them just add details where there is a shut off date - or list the shut off date as 6/12/09 for all stations unless we see data otherwise.

Trip in VA

02-06-09, 09:32 AM

Inundated

02-06-09, 09:36 AM

With 1800 TV stations, distributed across 10 people would be 180. If I can get more people involved (say, 20), that's 90 stations per person. Innundated, justalurker, dline, would any of you be interested if that's what had to happen?

Sure, if we have cleared up the specific way to find this out. If it's all going to be like the WPTD/WPTO form, that's fine...I found that easily. But I won't do a "we don't know, go poke around each station for a long time and see if you see anything" thing...I do have a life. ;)

Oh, and if you remove the extra "n" in my login name. I am not a hotel chain! :D

Just tell me what you need. IMHO, the FCC and stations need to make this a transparent process for the public/viewers. Viewers shouldn't be unsure if their local station will be switching in February or June.

mathwhiz

02-06-09, 09:36 AM

I can create the lists for my area - that's not a problem - I just to make sure everything is consistent for all areas.

Trip in VA

02-06-09, 09:39 AM

Sure, if we have cleared up the specific way to find this out. If it's all going to be like the WPTD/WPTO form, that's fine...I found that easily. But I won't do a "we don't know, go poke around each station for a long time and see if you see anything" thing...I do have a life. ;)

It'd be a "poke around each station once per day for three days" sort of thing. Is that acceptable?

Oh, and if you remove the extra "n" in my login name. I am not a hotel chain! :D

Sorry! :D

Just tell me what you need. IMHO, the FCC and stations need to make this a transparent process for the public/viewers. Viewers shouldn't be unsure if their local station will be switching in February or June.

The FCC should make a list, but they won't. They didn't for the 387s like they said they would a year ago. That's why my DTR exists.

I can create the lists for my area - that's not a problem - I just to make sure everything is consistent for all areas.

Alright, well I'm about to run out the door to class, so I'll come up with some guidelines when I get back.

- Trip

Inundated

02-06-09, 09:39 AM

For me - it would be easier if the data we provide listed each station (so we have an easy list to work from) and them just add details where there is a shut off date - or list the shut off date as 6/12/09 for all stations unless we see data otherwise.

I wouldn't feel comfortable listing 6/12/09 for stations with no info, unless I knew for SURE that they were switching on that date. For one, they could (presumably) file later to switch between March 14 and June 12. For another, can we be 100% sure that they aforementioned form is the ONLY way they can file to shut down early?

Arrgh...the FCC is making this frustrating.

Inundated

02-06-09, 09:44 AM

It'd be a "poke around each station once per day for three days" sort of thing. Is that acceptable?

I'm just concerned that there will be dozens of places we look at, scattershot, in each application. If it's just checking for that form, or for regular STA filings that show up in the applications list, that's cool. I just don't want to be spending a few hours a day looking at 180 stations. :D

This will probably be clearer to me if there are clear guidelines, as you suggest. I just don't want a "go look on your own and figure it out" thing, I can do a "look here, here, here, and here" thing. I'm afraid I'll miss something.

And yes, is it in the public interest NOT to know if a station is filing early?

The FCC already requires stations to post EEO info on their websites, and general transition information. They could well require a simple one-page that says "(Station X) is ending analog operation on 2/17/09" or "(Station X) has filed to end analog operation" or "(Station X) will end analog operation on the national June 12, 2009 transition date".

Sure, the stations that get approval will have to run a bazillion crawls and PSAs, but I think it should be more easily known which stations are going to do so. Not like I'm not preaching to the choir here. :D

Falcon_77

02-06-09, 09:59 AM

You can't find this in CDBS app search, but if you go to TVquery for WPTO/WPTD, click on "station info", then click on "click for details", then click on "correspondance folder", info on new correspondance is shown for them regarding "Notification of Termination of Analog Service" ... It's dated 2/5 however, and an actual Time is given as 4:50PM -- Which of course is AFTER FCC released the Public Notice on the DTV Delay procedures ...

So, if I'm reading this right, it is in the same place as the CPTV (e.g. WEDH) filings that we discussed a couple weeks ago.

However, are the LICSL's not being updated like they were before? I thought those followed such correspondence.

Is this one from WTNH valid? It does not use the same form as WPTD, however.

http://fjallfoss.fcc.gov/cgi-bin/ws.exe/prod/cdbs/forms/prod/cdbsmenu.hts?context=25&appn=101293116&formid=910&fac_num=74109

mathwhiz

02-06-09, 09:59 AM

I agree - the on air notifications are good - but why not a simple notice on their website that says date and time of analog shut off and (if applicable) date and time of digital channel change.

Inundated

02-06-09, 10:27 AM

Is this one from WTNH valid? It does not use the same form as WPTD, however.

I think only the new forms, that specifically have the February 17th date as a menu choice (and up in the name at the top), are the only valid ones. Just a guess based on what I'm reading here.

I agree - the on air notifications are good - but why not a simple notice on their website that says date and time of analog shut off and (if applicable) date and time of digital channel change.

One of the big problems with DTV education is that stations have just been able to slap up generic, national information on their website.

Locally, stations like WKYC should provide online details of their post-transition channel change, and advice about different antennas needed to pick up the channel (UHF 17 vs. VHF 2). They should also point out that when THEIR PARTICULAR STATION changes facilities, you will need to rescan the channels on the box/tuner.

This is apparently lost on the FCC.

sebenste

02-06-09, 10:32 AM

WTVO 17.X (ABC) and WQRF 39.1 (FOX) Rockford, IL announced on their newscasts last night that no matter what happens with the DTV bill, they WILL shut down on 2/17. WIFR-DT (CBS) also said the same thing, although we knew that by their filing. That takes care of the Rockford market...

Falcon_77

02-06-09, 10:43 AM

I uploaded a new version of the spreadsheet (see signature) and removed all references of the stations that had filed to end "on-time." Hopefully, by next weekend, we will have a much better idea of what is going on. The current counts are:

# 1058: operating Post-Transition facilities
# 163: with maximized Construction Permits but otherwise ready (included above)
# 320: to end analog operations early (before 6/12/09)
# 208: have already ended (or will not commence) analog operations (included above)

narkspud

02-06-09, 10:45 AM

FWIW, the 5-minute hourly crawls will start popping up on Tuesday. That should clear up all the confusion right there.

sebenste

02-06-09, 10:47 AM

http://www.latimes.com/business/la-fi-digitaltv6-2009feb06,1,2787044.story

mathwhiz

02-06-09, 10:59 AM

baker60

02-06-09, 11:39 AM

TalkingRat

02-06-09, 12:13 PM

A good example of a website with good localized DTV information is WKAR's at www.wkar.org/digitalguy/ Before they shut off analog they had a countdown as well. I think WKAR handled their analog shut-off exceptionally well. A week before their shutoff (mid January) they ran a live 1 hour program about DTV with a phone bank - and then after that for the entire week they ran a continuous scroll on their analog channel with very good information.

Nice site. I like that instead of saying you can't watch and record at the same time with a VCR, they explained in simple terms about the tuners inside. And i really liked the coverage map, showing who can expect improvement after transition. Uncluttered site, but with lots of links. A great example.

Piggie

02-06-09, 12:20 PM

http://www.latimes.com/business/la-fi-digitaltv6-2009feb06,1,2787044.story

The very end of this article says a lot

"A patchwork quilt of signals, with some stations broadcasting only in digital and others in both analog and digital, could create headaches for antenna users.

Some older converter boxes don't have the ability to handle both types of signals, so some viewers would have to unplug the device to watch one channel broadcast in analog, then plug it back in to watch another in digital."

But what gets me is they are laying the blame for this confusion on the station owners now.

Can you say Government.

==============================

And all my boxes and the ones I got for relatives, etc are not analog pass through. Why? Because I moved on this early last year as I was told. There were very few pass through boxes back then, none locally. After I had purchased the boxes, my bad, I didn't realize how many older TVs (less than 10 years) don't have A/V composite inputs, so now I may have to go around installing A/B switches.

Sammer

02-06-09, 12:44 PM

It appears that the FCC doesn't want to deal with early termination of analog signal. They have made the rules hard to follow and with many possible interpretations, with a tight time frame. Can you say beraucratic?
Yes but the first station the FCC tells it can't shut down analog on Feb. 17th that files a lawsuit (probably on constitutional grounds) could trump any authority that FCC has. Chairman Copps can play bureaucratic games all he wants but he knows that all this is legally questionable unless the Federal government is willing to compensate every station for its losses brought on by this delay.

Inundated

02-06-09, 12:56 PM

Yes but the first station the FCC tells it can't shut down analog on Feb. 17th that files a lawsuit (probably on constitutional grounds) could trump any authority that FCC has. Chairman Copps can play bureaucratic games all he wants but he knows that all this is legally questionable unless the Federal government is willing to compensate every station for its losses brought on by this delay.

But the biggest part may be the network O&O's staying on in analog. That could remove a lot of early requests. Remember, the previous February ratings are now in March!

Sammer

02-06-09, 01:09 PM

But the biggest part may be the network O&O's staying on in analog. That could remove a lot of early requests. Remember, the previous February ratings are now in March!
That was known to be likely about the O&Os even before over 700 stations said they would cutoff on time even if the bill passed Congress. The O&Os plus Hearst-Argyle and Gannet stations are 145 total.

Inundated

02-06-09, 01:14 PM

That was known to be likely about the O&Os even before over 700 stations said they would cutoff on time even if the law passed Congress. The O&Os plus Hearst-Argyle and Gannet stations are 145 total.

You know, I give up trying to figure this whole mess out. It changes by the day, and assumptions we make one day are wrong the next!

I hadn't heard about the O&O's keeping analog until Copps' announcement. I did notice that the O&Os weren't showing up on the list Trip was keeping, and very few large market stations were.

I really think we won't know the scope of this until after Monday night, as everyone has to refile. As mentioned, my local Fox affiliate is now saying it'll go June 12th, after filing an STA for the 17th (pre-FCC rules).

It does appear that the FCC is trying to make this as difficult as possible ("early" transition on the previous date), and I do wonder if the networks will remind affiliates that there's now a ratings period with analog TV still alive.

Other than that? I don't know. Maybe you have it figured out, and I don't.

foxeng

02-06-09, 01:21 PM

More Stations Opt for Early DTV Switch
Will shut off analog Feb. 17 and hope for the best
By Michael Malone -- Broadcasting & Cable, 2/6/2009 9:15:23 AM MT

The DTV Countdown: Continuing Coverage of the DTV Transition

Each day brings another batch of stations that say they'll make the switch to digital television Feb. 17, as they've been planning for months, as opposed to waiting for the Congress-approved delayed date of June 12. Among those making the early jump are the major Providence stations, those in northern Vermont, Billings (MT), Cedar Rapids/Waterloo/Dubuque, and some in Madison, Wisconsin. The Hawaii stations made the switch Jan. 15 to accommodate a local bird species' breeding season; broadcasters there reported a manageable level of viewer issues.

"Collectively, we felt it was in the best interest of our viewers to transition to digital TV on Feb. 17, the date which has been, and continues to be, in all of our public service announcements," says WPRI/WNAC Providence President/General Manager Jay Howell.

Station executives don't like the idea of paying for both digital and analog transmission facilities over the next four months, and say the countless hours (and dollars) they've spent drilling the Feb. 17 date into viewers' heads should not be for naught. "The stations in this market have done an outstanding job of educating the public to this conversion and that it would occur on Feb. 17," says KWWL Cedar Rapids Station Manager Kim Leer.
Stations that wish to pull the analog plug by the original deadline must apply for FCC approval by Feb. 9. Stations making the early switch must air at least 120 PSA's about it.
Some 5.8 million U.S. homes remain unprepared for digital television, Nielsen reported yesterday, down from 6.5 million almost three weeks ago. Many groups are opting to observe the June extension, which awaits President Obama's signature, believing the extra time will drive down the number of unprepared. Those include CBS, Fox, NBC, Telemundo and ABC, while Gannett and Hearst-Argyle have pledged to keep analog signals on at the vast majority of their stations until June 12.

The June delay has caused confusion not only among viewers, but among some broadcasters too. The Vermont Association of Broadcasters' Website, for example, has a ticking countdown to the former Feb. 17 deadline on its homepage, then offers the June 12 deadline a click away on its "DTV Answers" page.

Many broadcasters believe they've done their part to educate the public, and that those who are unprepared as of now may never be prepared. "We believe our viewers are ready for the change," said KTTC/KXLT Rochester (MN) VP/General Manager Jerry Watson on KTTC.com. "We have been telling them consistently about this pending change for more than six months."

http://www.broadcastingcable.com/article/173716-More_Stations_Opt_for_Early_DTV_Switch.php

Trip in VA

02-06-09, 01:24 PM

Alright folks, I'm back from classes, from meeting with my advisor, and from coming up with a new policy for the site.

We are going to redo the DTR page. This won't be too hard. Here's what it will look like on the final page:

WPTD DT PBS 16 58 16 02/17/09 20080206xxx N Think TV

Calls, DT, Network, Analog, Current digital, Future digital, Date of analog termination (with link to reference), 387 filing (with link), Nightlighting (Y or N), Owner, and any additional notes go after the owner.

So what's different is that we're going to be adding links, and the FCC will not be the only source. So here's the story.

Each person will get roughly 50 stations (and can get more if they feel they have the time to spare) which they will fill out in that form. I'll provide some code for how to do it, then send it to me or post it on here. You'll generate a list just like that one, except there will be links where I have underlining.

Once I find some evidence that February 17 notices are being filed en masse, I'll provide instructions. Don't send me anything before that time as it's just wasted effort.

If a station has not filed an updated 387, don't list it, just leave a placeholder like I used for WPTD. Here's the example code:

Ohio 
 
Dayton 
WPTD DT PBS 16 58 16 <a href="link goes here">02/17/09</a> <a href="">2008020xxxx</a> N Think TV 
 

I know that looks complicated, but most of it is just the link. If a 387 hasn't been filed, leave the link there but empty. If a

Make sure you use the link before the actual filing, and not the address that's in the address bar, or the links will expire.

Now, if you have some information from a local station's website that is not on the FCC site, like WTVF keeping analog until June 12, link to that in place of the FCC Notice of Analog Termination, unless such a notice shows up.

I'm going to sort this into neat step-by-step instructions a bit later in the afternoon, I just have to get my thoughts cleared up. You can probably tell I just dumped this out in whatever order it came out of my head.

I have some homework I need to get done, but once that's sorted, then I'll provide better information. Don't do anything until then, though if you have questions about what I've already posted, ask away and I'll get to them.

Sorry for the mess.

- Trip

Nitewatchman

02-06-09, 01:29 PM

Update: Well, I missed seeing Trip's latest post before posting the below -- I'll leave it in case there's anything in there of use, but there probably isn't given Trip's already worked out how he's going to do it ...

The only problem is that I have NO IDEA how to search for them. WPTO and WPTD don't show up on my website's database in the same way the other stations do, which is where I'd been finding them at first, so I'm not sure what to do. Any thoughts?

I'll keep looking, but don't know any other way at this point via FCC site other than looking at the "correspondance" folders, as those seem to be the only place I can find any info on these filings/forms to show up, currently ...

Oh, I'm sure you know this, and this doesn't really help since there isn't any sort of "search by date", but another way to find these is via CDBS "station Search" (instead of application search), but we still need to click on the "click for details" and "correspondance folder" :

http://svartifoss2.fcc.gov/prod/cdbs/pubacc/prod/sta_sear.htm

Given it's how it worked for the "old filings" like WEDH, I was hoping they might continue to use the Station status(Such as Licensed and Silent - LISCL) info To reflect the new filings with these new forms so they might show up(including in your FCC updates) in same/or similar way the older filings did , and was even hoping they might "clear" that status for the "old" filing, but they didn't or at least haven't so far ...

There seems to be only one "field" for "station status" they have which shows something like this, If things "made sense" Seems like they should use another value specific to these filings that would show up somewhere -- Such as something like F17SL for "Feb 17 silent" for station status ....

Of course what's funny they're even using "licensed and silent" as status in cases when analog's have filed for lower power(such as to modify parts of analog transmitter for digital), even though the analogs are still on air ... Such as is also the case with WPTD STA filing and their "licensed and Slient status" as of 1/21/09 ....

Also, If you go to the CDBS "DTV Station Search"(which shows status for the analog station as well), The "licensed and Silent" Status turns into "not operating" :

http://svartifoss2.fcc.gov/cdbs/cdbs_docs/dtv_search.cfm

I don't know how this is going to work then. It's quickly devolving into the realm of "nearly impossible."

Yeah. And, I think whatever you want(or don't want) to do is/should be entirely up to you.

I will likely be "clicking on" the correspondance folders and checking for updated DTR's for my local stations(16 of them), and perhaps a few others in the area I'm especially interested in, -- But I'll probably only do that once or twice at most by Monday, and will probably post some of what I find in Local threads if someone else hasn't already posted the info, but I'd certianly be happy to send it to you or post here, or in another thread as well .... Update: Won't get in Mathwhiz's way though, since it looks like he has the stations in my area ....

And, perhaps a "analog shut off" thread where folks post and update the info for their local stations/markets as things progress might seem ideal if there would be enough interest and participation.

I dunno, though. As far as trying to develop a List, perhaps it might be best to wait and see what happens to see if a better way arises to pull the data out on the analog shut offs for a "list", or to see if FCC releases a list .... And in the meantime look at this on a local basis, in the local threads ...

Feb 17 is only 11 Days away after all, and, only 7 days after the filing deadline involved ....And, what might happen regarding some of the stations involved might change vs. what they file for Such as in cases such as when FCC "Gets involved"/has a concern about certian shut off's being against the "public interest" ...

No, it's a new form.

THAT's good at least, as I think it's the only way we can tell for sure what the now "relevant" filings are ... well, if/when the Pres signs the thing ... I think most were assuming that was a given, but I'm not so sure ... If I understood correctly, as I just skimmed over a quick news piece and may have misunderstood that it looks like Obama is looking at having a "public comment" period on it before deciding whether to sign it or not ... If that's true, seems to be awfully late in the game for that, but I must admit, I'm very impressed with the idea ...

Thanks for all your help on this

You're welcome + No problem .... If Mathwiz hadn't posted about WPTO/WPTD, I probably wouldn't have gotten to it yet by this point, and you'd likely already had it figured out ....

The question now is where do we go from here? If they're showing up in notices like that, I think they'll show up instantly, in which case it might be possible to see today's filings as of tonight, instead of waiting for the CDBS update after midnight. Does that sound sensible?

That's what I'm thinking as well, haven't confirmed it yet though, as based on the time shown in the correspondance folders, as all I've looked at so far was WPTO and WPTD, last night, which was after midnight and about 7~8 hours after the time shown ....

mathwhiz

02-06-09, 01:31 PM

I've already started prep work for MI and OH. So I'll keep those two states and let IN go to someone else.

JimboG

02-06-09, 01:47 PM

Trip in VA

02-06-09, 01:48 PM

Nitewatchman, I plan to write a response when I'm not staring at Finance homework.

Just wanted to get this thought out there, if a station has already terminated analog, list it with the date they killed analog in place of the date. No link necessary. Put in the filing number of the last 387 they filed.

- Trip

narkspud

02-06-09, 01:56 PM

It appears that the FCC doesn't want to deal with early termination of analog signal. They have made the rules hard to follow and with many possible interpretations, with a tight time frame. Can you say beraucratic?

Can you spell it? :p

Seriously, though, I don't think the rules are all that hard to follow. For people who can follow directions, that is. Which isn't everybody.

The very end of this article says a lot

Some older converter boxes don't have the ability to handle both types of signals, so some viewers would have to unplug the device to watch one channel broadcast in analog, then plug it back in to watch another in digital."

It says to me that the author of the article doesn't get the fact that the analogs and digitals are on the air at the same time.

narkspud

02-06-09, 01:57 PM

BTW, KOCE says they ain't shutting off unless the rest of LA does. Nobody wants to go first.

Trip in VA

02-06-09, 02:04 PM

Seriously, though, I don't think the rules are all that hard to follow. For people who can follow directions, that is. Which isn't everybody.

They're hard for me to follow!

- Trip

Nitewatchman

02-06-09, 02:10 PM

How on Earth did you find that?

Partly because of the info at link below from mdodge regarding some of the earlier filings, partly because of the info in footnote 11 of the public notice, and partly because of the updated 387's for WPTD/WPTO :

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=15647963&highlight=query#post15647963

From looking at the gobbledigook in the link to WPTD's application, it appears that the form ID is 910. However, there doesn't seem to be any reasonable way to search for this new form through CDBS.

Great find! I didn't see/think of looking in the URL ... It may not actually be a "valid FCC form number" (Like "387" for the DTR's) though as the form # isn't shown on the form itself , may just be something they're using for the URL ...

There's perhaps some hope, though. In the past, when they've added "new forms" in some cases at some point soon after they are first implemented(sometimes before the forms are used for filings, sometimes sometime afterwards) they later add/allow for a search by the new "form number" or the form name via CDBS app search ....

TalkingRat

02-06-09, 02:13 PM

sorry,wrong thread...

Inundated

02-06-09, 02:18 PM

Now, if you have some information from a local station's website that is not on the FCC site, like WTVF keeping analog until June 12, link to that in place of the FCC Notice of Analog Termination, unless such a notice shows up.

That's a problem here, as WJW (Fox affiliate) filed the original STA a few days ago, and is now saying it will stay analog. Are we basically - for purposes of this - throwing out those pre-2/5-6 STA filings?

Don't answer this now. Do your homework and come back. :D

Trip in VA

02-06-09, 02:22 PM

That's a problem here, as WJW (Fox affiliate) filed the original STA a few days ago, and is now saying it will stay analog. Are we basically - for purposes of this - throwing out those pre-2/5-6 STA filings?

Don't answer this now. Do your homework and come back. :D

Yes.

And I'm trying, but Finance is SO BORING!

- Trip

mathwhiz

02-06-09, 02:23 PM

Based on what I've read - that yes - the pre 2/5-6 STAs are not valid. The way I see things - if you've turned off analog already you are fine. If you haven't turned off analog yet then you need to refile the new forms. I wonder about stations who were approved to turn off between now and 2/16, do they need to refile?

Trip in VA

02-06-09, 02:27 PM

Inundated

02-06-09, 02:41 PM

Yes.

I just wish we had some way of being sure, aside from what would be a reasonable assumption based on the new rules.

Our local Fox affiliate (WJW) has changed its website to say they turn off analog on 6/12, but that might just be a search/replace date change by whoever updated the DTV page.

SnellKrell

02-06-09, 02:43 PM

This sums up my feelings!

"If pro is opposite of con, then what is the opposite of progress?

Congress!"

Men's restroom House of Representatives,
Washington , DC

Inundated

02-06-09, 03:05 PM

All of West Virginia's commercial stations, save for WOAY in the Beckley/Bluefield market, are still on for the switch.

Here's a story direct from WTRF in Wheeling, part of the Bray Cary West Virginia Media Holdings Empire, posted just an hour or so ago on their website:

http://www.wtrf.com/story.cfm?func=viewstory&storyid=51552

WTRF will make digital transition on February 17th.

WHEELING -- Congress is permitting television stations across the country to delay the end of analog broadcasting until this June.

But WTRF will not be among them. WTRF will Make the digital transition on February 17th.

Chief Engineer Brad Stanford says all three networks of Channel Seven will be broadcast solely in digital format at Midnight, February 17th.

Stanford says our feeling is it would be beneficial to our viewers now that we've told them for the past six months, that we're going to make a transition on February 17th, that we abide by that.

I don't know when this aired, but the time stamp was at just after 1 PM today. I assume if WVMH changed its mind after the FCC guidelines came out, they wouldn't have run it.

Trip in VA

02-06-09, 03:08 PM

WVMH has already flash-cut WOWK, so I wouldn't be surprised to see the rest of the stations go.

- Trip

joblo

02-06-09, 03:34 PM

And I wouldn't be surprised to see the FCC slap WOWK for the way they did that.

Inundated

02-06-09, 03:55 PM

WVMH has already flash-cut WOWK, so I wouldn't be surprised to see the rest of the stations go.

I didn't know WOWK had already flash cut...but when I was going through the various WVMH sites, I noticed WOWK's already had the "what happened to my signal?" FAQ up.

And I wouldn't be surprised to see the FCC slap WOWK for the way they did that.

Under what grounds? This doesn't appear to have happened this week, for one, and I presume WOWK got all the proper approvals.

Inundated

02-06-09, 03:57 PM

From the nearby Ironton (Ohio) Tribune:

http://www.irontontribune.com/news/2009/feb/06/digital-tv-conversion-deadline-not-changed-locally/

But many viewers may not have realized it but WOWK actually has already stopped broadcasting the analog signal, a conversion that was implemented a little sooner than expected because of some equipment damage caused by last week’s storm, said John Fawcett, general manager.

“We’ve received almost no calls from anyone who says ‘hey, we can’t see you guys now,” Fawcett said.

So much for the "FCC slapdown". :D

Nitewatchman

02-06-09, 04:21 PM

Quick note regarding WPTD's filing ... They seem to indicate in their (2/6/09 status date) Updated 387 and an exhibit attached to it that They're going to begin *post-transition* operation with their *post-transition* facilities on channel 16 -- 16 being their current analog channel -- DTV is currently on 58 ...

However, I did some digging and found out the authorization for what I think is their Post-transition CP *does* contain the following condition :

Special operating conditions or restrictions:
2 This is to notify you that the grant of this construction permit is subject to the condition that this facility can not commence operation prior to midnight of February 17, 2009, or by such other date as the Commission may establish in the future, without prior approval from the Commission.

Soo ... per the new procedures set forth in FCC's Public Notice yesterday (should pres sign the DTV delay act into law), Sounds like they'd #1). have to File for a STA, and #2). Have to get "special permission" from FCC in order to implement their plans per FCC's new procedures...

I wonder how many of STA or "special permission requests" regarding these sorts of situations FCC is going to have to "process" sometime in the next 10 days or less ...

Posted more info and details (and relevant links, such as to the CP authorization involved) about it in Dayton thread ...

Crazy!

Inundated

02-06-09, 04:37 PM

I wonder how many of STA or "special permission requests" regarding these sorts of situations FCC is going to have to "process" sometime in the next 10 days or less ...

Sister public broadcaster WNEO/45 Alliance had to do the same up here, when they wanted to light up their post-transition power after flash-cutting from analog to digital.

They filed for the STA on 12/16 and it was granted on 1/8. Before the backlog that's sure to happen!

BTW, if you haven't stopped by the Cleveland thread, we'd appreciate your help over there. One of our members is having trouble playing an MPEG2 recorded TV show on a PS3, and he thinks it may be a local affiliate's flag or something...

afiggatt

02-06-09, 04:56 PM

Soo ... per the new procedures set forth in FCC's Public Notice yesterday (should pres sign the DTV delay act into law), Sounds like they'd #1). have to File for a STA, and #2). Have to get "special permission" from FCC in order to implement their plans per FCC's new procedures...

I wonder how many of STA or "special permission requests" regarding these sorts of situations FCC is going to have to "process" sometime in the next 10 days or less ...
This is what I am wondering about as well. What happens to the stations that file to shutdown on Feb. 17, but have to do a flash cut to their post-transition DT channel? For the sake of argument, let's assume there are no interference concerns and that is easily checked. What happens if they go through the entire >120 analog shutdown announcement process, repeatedly tell their viewers they are heading for the analog exit ramp on Feb. 17, but when Feb. 17 arrives, but the FCC has not acted on their STA filing? Do they call the FCC and demand an answer? Wait until midnight and no STA arrives, tell the engineer to scrub the flash cut and refile to do it ASAP in March?

This whole situation and all the possible scenarios is more confusing than quantum mechanics. Maybe we could express the situation in as eingenstates in a Schroedinger's equation. Would make as much sense. :D

bb37

02-06-09, 05:18 PM

I've already started prep work for MI and OH. So I'll keep those two states and let IN go to someone else.
I can pick up IN, though I'll need to go back through the messages to make sure I understand what I'm looking for.

NashDigie

02-06-09, 05:30 PM

Ohio 
 
Dayton 
WPTD DT PBS 16 58 16 <a href="link goes here">02/17/09</a> <a href="">2008020xxxx</a> N Think TV 
 

- Trip

My ABC affiliate (WKRN - Nashville, TN) is going to leave analog on until June 12. Information is below. Here is the link to their story on their website:

http://www.wkrn.com/global/story.asp?s=9802586

Tennessee 
 
Nashville 
WKRN DT ABC 02 27 27 <a href="http://www.wkrn.com/global/story.asp?s=9802586">06/12/09</a> <a href="">2008020xxxx</a> N Young Broadcasting

Nitewatchman

02-06-09, 05:55 PM

BTW, if you haven't stopped by the Cleveland thread, we'd appreciate your help over there. One of our members is having trouble playing an MPEG2 recorded TV show on a PS3, and he thinks it may be a local affiliate's flag or something...

Sure, It's been a long time since I've read the Cleveland thread(so much stuff to do, so little time being the only particular reason involved) ...

Dunno if I can help or not though ... When I get a chance I'll check the thread/check it out ...

What happens if they go through the entire >120 analog shutdown announcement process, repeatedly tell their viewers they are heading for the analog exit ramp on Feb. 17, but when Feb. 17 arrives, but the FCC has not acted on their STA filing? Do they call the FCC and demand an answer? Wait until midnight and no STA arrives, tell the engineer to scrub the flash cut and refile to do it ASAP in March?

In some cases, I don't know how much choice some stations are going to have to "change their plans" and the current work they are doing in that sort of or similar circumstance, given how late this nuttiness has happened ....

I'd hope though that FCC would be lenient in such circumstances, and hopefully something could be worked out, even if via a "oral" STA ....

I suppose in most cases, though, its probably the case stations will be able to "figure something out" in their particular circumstance .... But, unfortunetly I wouldn't be surprised in many cases given the way they are implementing this that that will involve keeping the analog up past feb 17 even if they'd rather not ....

This whole situation and all the possible scenarios is more confusing than quantum mechanics. Maybe we could express the situation in as eingenstates in a Schroedinger's equation. Would make as much sense.

Yeah ... I could say "nothing surprises me anymore", especially when it comes to politicians and Lawyers .... But, if I said that, I'd be lying in this case, as I never would have thought until about a month or so ago they would have even considered doing this at this stage of the game ...

Trip in VA

02-06-09, 07:02 PM

I can pick up IN, though I'll need to go back through the messages to make sure I understand what I'm looking for.

I'll be making a new post which sums everything up in the next hour or so. I need to eat something and collect my thoughts.

- Trip

spokybob

02-06-09, 07:14 PM

Just now WQAD announced they will transition on June 12th.

Desert Hawk

02-06-09, 08:55 PM

KVPT PBS Fresno (18 40 40) ran a PSA 20 minutes ago saying that they will end analog on Feb. 17. KERO ABC Bakersfield (23 10 10) ran one last night.

I am guessing that some stations that are moving their digital transmission to their current analog channel will file to terminate analog on Feb. 17, but will actually do it only if they get permission to turn off their pre-transition digital signal and begin digital broadcasting on their current analog channel on Feb. 17, otherwise they will keep analog on until June 12.

Edit: KBAK CBS Bakersfield (29 33 33) ran a PSA tonight saying that they will shut off analog on Feb. 17. They have previously announced that co-owned (Fisher) KBFX-CA FOX 58 will keep analog on until at least June 12 and probably beyond that (as a low power station they can). KBFX is simulcast on KBAK-DT's subchannel. Eventually it is supposed to move to channel 22 and go digital.

Trip in VA

02-06-09, 09:22 PM

I'm still planning to make a lengthy post this evening, I've just been doing other things and did get started on this:

http://www.rabbitears.info/termlist.php

- Trip

w9wi

02-06-09, 09:50 PM

I think they need to refile if their off-air date was the 10th or later. Which means VTN will be getting in JUST BARELY.

- Trip

Reading the last page of the Public Notice, it looks to me as if stations which had notified the FCC of their intent to silence analog between the release of the Notice (i.e., yesterday) and the 16th must notify the Commission by Monday whether they intend to follow through.

w9wi

02-06-09, 09:54 PM

My ABC affiliate (WKRN - Nashville, TN) is going to leave analog on until June 12.

WSMV will do likewise.

What I've heard... is that WTVF-5 will not be allowed to switch from their pre-transition facility on channel 56 to their post-transition facility on channel 5 until 6/12, because WTVF-DT on channel 5 would interfere with pre-transition WCFT-DT on the same channel in Tuscaloosa, Alabama, and WCFT does not plan to transition to DTV channel 33 until 6/12.

To be perfectly honest that doesn't make a whole lot of sense to me -- I'd think WTVF's pre-transition *analog* facility on channel 5 would cause as much or more interference to WCFT as WTVF's post-transition digital -- but I guess one should never accuse the FCC of making sense!

joblo

02-06-09, 11:45 PM

This is what I am wondering about as well. What happens to the stations that file to shutdown on Feb. 17, but have to do a flash cut to their post-transition DT channel? For the sake of argument, let's assume there are no interference concerns and that is easily checked. What happens if they go through the entire >120 analog shutdown announcement process, repeatedly tell their viewers they are heading for the analog exit ramp on Feb. 17, but when Feb. 17 arrives, but the FCC has not acted on their STA filing? Do they call the FCC and demand an answer? Wait until midnight and no STA arrives, tell the engineer to scrub the flash cut and refile to do it ASAP in March?
It’s important to remember that the DTV Delay Act provides no specific authority for flash cuts or use of post-transition digital channels. Stations are allowed to turn off analog, and thus save on power costs, but that’s it. If they are not already operating on their post-transition channel at post-transition power, or if their pre-transition digital facility is an STA that does not substantially replicate their analog coverage area, then they might be well advised not to turn off analog.

joblo

02-06-09, 11:46 PM

Under what grounds? This doesn't appear to have happened this week, for one, and I presume WOWK got all the proper approvals.Well, maybe. I didn't see any correspondence or notices of any kind when last I checked, but maybe I missed something.

Still, these are the questions I have:

1. Did they provide advance notice on their transition digital of the need to do a rescan before turning that signal off? (They evidently didn't give Dish Network enough time to catch up.)

2. Does their CP have the post-2/17 rider in it or not?

3. How did they fire up DT 13 without shutting down or reducing power on WBOY when their transition plan says they're going repurpose power modules from WBOY's analog xmitter for DT 13?

4. If they jury-rigged something to get DT 13 going, why couldn't they have jury-rigged something for analog 13?

5. If they are not yet at full power on DT 13, why does their web site not tell viewers that, and thus save them the expense of a potentially unnecessary antenna upgrade?

I dunno, it just feels a little off to me somehow, like they were a little too eager to jump the gun.

But note that I'm not predicting the FCC will slap WOWK, necessarily. I'm just saying I won't be surprised if that happens at some point, for one reason or another.

milehighmike

02-06-09, 11:55 PM

Trip in VA

02-06-09, 11:55 PM

Well, I thought I'd want to put up a lengthy message this evening, but I need to shower and get to bed. I'm going to FrostFest (http://www.frostfest.com) in the morning, so I need to be in bed at a reasonable time, so I'll try to make this brief.

I have not observed any filings beyond those of WPTO/WPTD. I think we'll be waiting until Sunday night for anything definitive. So anyone who wants to help out, show up around midnight EST on Sunday evening/Monday morning. Hopefully there'll be filings to observe.

I'm not going to assign locations anymore, but I would like folks to post the locations they check on. So once I check out all the Roanoke-area stations, I'm going to post "Roanoke" and then go back and edit that post for each additional market I check on. I want to have the whole country covered if at all possible, and this will help identify holes.

Now, as for the data, I've decided that I'm going to toss the DTR and the Termlist and replace it with a single DTR page. At the moment, this page (http://www.rabbitears.info/termlist.php) has replaced the old page (http://www.rabbitears.info/termlist.old.php) because the DTR still has some relevant information on it, whereas the Analog Termination Page is 100% outdated.

You should be able to tell by what's on the new page what's basically going on. The code looks like this:

Kansas 
 
Topeka 
KTWU DT PBS 11 23 11 <a href="http://www.wibw.com/localnews/headlines/39184817.html">02/17/09</a> <a href="">200902xxxxx</a> N Washburn U (TV-11 has been halved) 
WIBW DT CBS 13 44 13 <a href="http://www.wibw.com/localnews/headlines/39184817.html">02/16/09</a> <a href="">200902xxxxx</a> N Gray...... 
 

Adjust and add accordingly. List all full-powered stations in a given area (translators and Class A stations not included!), even those which have terminated analog. If they've terminated analog service, no link on the date is required, but do note the date that service was terminated. Link to their last-filed 387 in the appropriate area.

If you want to prepare the stations you want to do early, you are welcome to do so, but please post which markets and/or states you'll be taking (so your work isn't duplicated), and please note that any stations whose dates cannot be confirmed at the present time should be listed as --/--/09. Do not make any assumptions about dates; err on the side of caution. Cite websites as I have already on the page for any dates you can confirm that are not yet noted in the FCC data. Feel free to send me the blank data to integrate into the page I have now, should you choose to prepare it ahead of time.

Note the "OWNER NAME" field has only 10 characters. Leave out unnecessary words in names. For example, "Sinclair Broadcasting Group" is easily shortened to "Sinclair" and then the owner name must be padded with periods out to 10 characters in length. If it's still too long, abbreviate the name in such a way that it makes as much sense as possible. For example, if the company is "Commonwealth Broadcasting," shorten it to "Commonwlth" and people will still know what it means.

If you find any interesting notes, things that are out of the norm, put them in parentheses at the end of the line. If they're flash-cutting to a different channel on a date that's not the analog termination date, note it (as I did with KTKA, though use a specific date if one is available to you). If they're killing the analog to replace gear or improve the signal, note it. If there are unique circumstances, note it. Basically, anything that's not "we're shutting off the analog and we're done" or "we're shutting off the analog and flash-cutting immediately after" should get noted as briefly as possible.

When Sunday evening rolls around, I'll provide specific instructions on how best to find the data necessary and how to collect the links. (You can't just pull the address out of the address bar on the gray form page, as that link expires.)

If there are any questions, let me know. I'll get back to you as quickly as possible, though I expect to be away from the computer most of the day tomorrow (I should be back from Frostfest long before 6PM, but might be homeworking after that), and then again much of the afternoon on Sunday as I do some exam prep.

- Trip

Trip in VA

02-06-09, 11:57 PM

Trip,

KWGN's web site specifically states it is ceasing analog on 2-17-09 and not staying on until 6-12-09. I cannot find any FCC filings posted nor was there anything in their correspondence folder. Is this one that may not show up until Sunday night?

Yes. Anything like this that I can find specific citations on (especially if they reference the 6-12 date and say they're going despite it) will be listed on my list. Any citations I can find backing up other dates can also be cited.

Those citations should be replaced by FCC filings as soon as those become available, of course.

- Trip

Trip in VA

02-07-09, 12:12 AM

1. Did they provide advance notice on their transition digital of the need to do a rescan before turning that signal off? (They evidently didn't give Dish Network enough time to catch up.)

You can't really give notice when your equipment is damaged. More than a few stations have just gone off the air without notice due to failure.

2. Does their CP have the post-2/17 rider in it or not?

Yes, but plenty of stations have already started operating post-transition facilites. Until Thursday's rules change, stations could still do that.

3. How did they fire up DT 13 without shutting down or reducing power on WBOY when their transition plan says they're going repurpose power modules from WBOY's analog xmitter for DT 13?

Some transmitters are designed so that you can take half the transmitter offline and still maintain full power. So just because WBOY wasn't off the air or at reduced power doesn't mean that work wasn't going on behind the scenes.

4. If they jury-rigged something to get DT 13 going, why couldn't they have jury-rigged something for analog 13?

Likely they had the digital 13 transmitter all set up and ready to go. A few minutes of adjusting connections and it's on the air.

5. If they are not yet at full power on DT 13, why does their web site not tell viewers that, and thus save them the expense of a potentially unnecessary antenna upgrade?

That I don't know.

I dunno, it just feels a little off to me somehow, like they were a little too eager to jump the gun.

Most stations whose analog transmitters die or are damaged are in no rush to fix them. It's nothing unique to WOWK.

But note that I'm not predicting the FCC will slap WOWK, necessarily. I'm just saying I won't be surprised if that happens at some point, for one reason or another.

If not for this delay, I'd disagree with you. Given the delay and the tone Copps is taking with the stations, what you suggest is quite possible.

- Trip

joblo

02-07-09, 12:38 AM

You can't really give notice when your equipment is damaged. More than a few stations have just gone off the air without notice due to failure.
That's true, sure enough.

So analog 13 was damaged and dt 47 was damaged but dt 13 survived fine. And this was from an ice storm, wasn't it? Very selective, that ice...

I mean, couple of weeks or so ago, WJAL had a fire. Took out both their analog and pre-transition digital. They have new transmitter on order, it's for their post-transition channel. It wasn't damaged because it wasn't on site. All very plausible and reasonable.

Now I dunno, maybe what happened at WOWK was all copasetic, too. But WVMH was among the first to declare they were going on the 17th anyway, right? And then after that, WOWK gets knocked out by a storm, and they had no choice whatsoever but to fire up their post-transition facility. Maybe. But if you were the FCC, wouldn't you at least question that a bit?

If not for this delay, I'd disagree with you. Given the delay and the tone Copps is taking with the stations, what you suggest is quite possible.
If not for the delay and WVMH’s initial reaction to it, I probably wouldn’t be asking questions. ;)

Trip in VA

02-07-09, 12:52 AM

That's true, sure enough.

So analog 13 was damaged and dt 47 was damaged but dt 13 survived fine. And this was from an ice storm, wasn't it? Very selective, that ice...

I don't know the details, but if the TV-13 transmitter and DT-47 are plugged in and the DT-13 isn't, it's pretty obvious to me how the one that's not plugged in could have avoided damage. For example, ice builds up on the antennas, causes reflections back in, sends signal back down the feedlines and damages the hooked-up transmitters and not the one that's disconnected.

Plus they'd been telling people that once the analog went away, they'd have to rescan. Well, leaving 47 on only to have to flash-cut and tell people to rescan again later would defeat the purpose of that.

I mean, couple of weeks or so ago, WJAL had a fire. Took out both their analog and pre-transition digital. They have new transmitter on order, it's for their post-transition channel. It wasn't damaged because it wasn't on site. All very plausible and reasonable.

It could just as easily happen like that if the equipment was on site and in a different part of the building as the fire. (Did the fire take out the whole building? I didn't read too many details)

Now I dunno, maybe what happened at WOWK was all copasetic, too. But WVMH was among the first to declare they were going on the 17th anyway, right? And then after that, WOWK gets knocked out by a storm, and they had no choice whatsoever but to fire up their post-transition facility. Maybe. But if you were the FCC, wouldn't you at least question that a bit?

Perhaps. On the other hand, if I was the FCC, I'd want the transition to happen as quickly as possible. In this case, by the time the FCC investigates anything, the market will already be converted. Everyone who needs a box will have one to get WOWK-DT. What would turning the analog back on accomplish?

- Trip

joblo

02-07-09, 01:16 AM

I don't know the details, but if the TV-13 transmitter and DT-47 are plugged in and the DT-13 isn't, it's pretty obvious to me how the one that's not plugged in could have avoided damage. For example, ice builds up on the antennas, causes reflections back in, sends signal back down the feedlines and damages the hooked-up transmitters and not the one that's disconnected.
Ok, fair enough.

Plus they'd been telling people that once the analog went away, they'd have to rescan. Well, leaving 47 on only to have to flash-cut and tell people to rescan again later would defeat the purpose of that.
On the contrary, DirecTV and Dish Network were relying on DT-47 and expecting that to change on the 17th. By jumping the gun, they apparently took their HD signal off Dish Network for several days. So if they had the capacity to keep DT-47 going and make the channel switch on the 17th as scheduled, or at least after some notice period, I think they should have done that.

Perhaps. On the other hand, if I was the FCC, I'd want the transition to happen as quickly as possible. In this case, by the time the FCC investigates anything, the market will already be converted. Everyone who needs a box will have one to get WOWK-DT. What would turning the analog back on accomplish?
Nothing. The unexpected channel change bothers me more than the loss of analog.

I doubt the FCC would require WOWK to go backwards in any event. If they do anything, it will probably be just a fine for procedural violations.

But clearly, at this point, the FCC cannot want the transition to happen as quickly as possible, because they've just been directed by Congress -- and presumably soon the President -- to slow it down.

Piggie

02-07-09, 03:25 AM

Trip in VA

02-07-09, 06:07 AM

Trip, I hope I am looking the right place. Used the link you posted, put in the date range as today and state as FL. Nothing really.

Tonight on the evening news WCJB announced they will go silent in 11 days. But nothing I can find in the date base says anything.

Is this because stations are waiting to file until Monday?

The FCC database only updates on weekday mornings, so the next update is on Sunday evening/Monday morning after midnight. No need to try anything else until then.

I had hoped that the February 17 notices might show up immediately upon filing but I've been sampling stations in multiple markets and have not found any evidence to support that hope.

Plus I am confused if Obama waits 5 days for comments, would that make the tentative FCC rule to file by Monday a moot point. This has gotten very confusing.

He made a promise in the campaign to wait 5 days to pass all non-emergency legislation so people can comment on it, and this is him implementing it. Personally, I think this should probably count as emergency legislation just because not signing it compresses the timeframe even worse.

- Trip

electrictroy

02-07-09, 09:19 AM

WGAL's station manager announced on the Thursday evening news that he will NOT be shutting-down analog until June. He also said other stations in the Lancaster-Harrisburg market will not be shutting-down either. So you can update your WGAL info from 2/17 to 6/10.

popweaverhdtv

02-07-09, 10:43 AM

WYFF, WSPA and WHNS will not transition to DTV on 2/17 (the latter changing after originally announcing their intent to do so). The aforementioned three stations will do so on 6/12.

(Sources:
http://www.wyff4.com/news/18659068/detail.html
http://www.wspa.com/spa/news/local/article/news_channel_7_will_switch_to_dtv_in_june/14360/
http://www.multichannel.com/article/173748-Meredith_Won_t_Pull_Analog_Plug_Feb_17.php
)

Piggie

02-07-09, 10:57 AM

The FCC database only updates on weekday mornings, so the next update is on Sunday evening/Monday morning after midnight. No need to try anything else until then.

He made a promise in the campaign to wait 5 days to pass all non-emergency legislation so people can comment on it, and this is him implementing it. Personally, I think this should probably count as emergency legislation just because not signing it compresses the timeframe even worse.

- Trip

Well then I am not missing anything as I did find the "old" filing from last week, week before, but not new.

So the tentative FCC rules require filing by this Monday, the 9th. But it's not 5 days for Obama to sign the bill until the 9th. So the tentative rules are not legally binding until the 9th.

So then stations have just what ever time is left between signing and the end of the day to file? I might be all wrong on this but it seems what I put together.

Even if I am dead wrong on my dates, etc, one thing is positive even those that follow things like FCC are now confused.

Should I change my sig line to "Confusion, the Ultimate PSA...."

joblo

02-07-09, 11:16 AM

Is this because stations are waiting to file until Monday?
I suspect the vast majority of stations that file will wait until Monday to do so.

(Just to be clear, I’m saying most of the filings will come in Monday, not that most stations will terminate on the 17th.)

Based on press coverage, it’s clear there’s been an awful lot of chatter about this between various parties. I’m sure nets are pressuring affiliates in the largest markets, stations are saying to others in their own market, “we will if you will”, etc. Ironically, even the NAB could be pressing some stations behind the scenes to keep analog going. (I won’t explain that because it would inevitably lead to political discussion.)

Point is, the FCC made it clear that stations cannot rescind these filings, so I think stations will want to be very sure before they commit.

Plus I am confused if Obama waits 5 days for comments, would that make the tentative FCC rule to file by Monday a moot point.
I was talking to a lawyer about this yesterday. I don’t think it’s a problem. The regulations are contingent, but they’re regulations nonetheless, and under the circumstances, I think the FCC is behaving reasonably, in the interest of providing as much clarity as possible as quickly as possible, given the generally confusing landscape.

Still, I can’t help but think of the silly do-over of the oath of office. Heaven help us is if we have to do this all over after the President signs the bill. :rolleyes:

But I don’t think that’s likely.

Personally, I think this should probably count as emergency legislation just because not signing it compresses the timeframe even worse.
For the reasons above, I don’t think it will compress the timeline any further, but it definitely adds to the confusion, and I absolutely agree this was the wrong bill with which to start the new policy.

foxeng

02-07-09, 12:13 PM

... and I absolutely agree this was the wrong bill with which to start the new policy.

I don't think anyone will argue that point and I personally don't think the White House cares what mayhem it has/does/will cause on any issue, as long as Obama is reelected in 2012. And Congress (Dems and Republicans they are ALL guilty) has the same feeling as well.

Welcome to Election Cycle 2010 and 2012! "Welcome back my friends to the show that never ends We're so glad you could attend, come inside, come inside"
Karn Evil 9 - Emerson, Lake and Palmer

[goes outside and pukes]

joblo

02-07-09, 12:48 PM

I don't think anyone will argue that point
LOL

Well, not here, obviously, but in those forums bicker1 quoted over in HoTP, who knows? ;)

foxeng

02-07-09, 12:54 PM

LOL

Well, not here, obviously, but in those forums bicker1 quoted over in HoTP, who knows? ;)

All they know is what they see on TV. (Did I just say that?)

bicker1

02-07-09, 01:11 PM

It is really true, though. Our reality and "their" reality often differ substantially.

And there are more of them than there are of us! :eek:

Nitewatchman

02-07-09, 01:39 PM

I had hoped that the February 17 notices might show up immediately upon filing but I've been sampling stations in multiple markets and have not found any evidence to support that hope.

Same here ... I looked at several, including WDTN/WHIO here whom are on air explaining the Delay to June 12 and still stressing they're going to shut down on Feb 17 ...

Unless of course, NONE have been filed besides WPTD/WPTO's from late Thrusday afternoon .... Probably unlikely, but I suppose it's possible ...

Agree with joblo that most of those which will be filing the notices will probably do it Monday ....

TalkingRat

02-07-09, 02:10 PM

I got lost in the FCC filing requirements. I'd have volunteered to help, but I'm way too confused. :o But I did poke around, found two FCC filings for Eugene, which may help whoever has Oregon. These were 387s. Both plan to flash cut to their old analog spot on 2/17/09, and both made it clear on their website that this is a current decision.

KDRV File# BDTUCT20090205ACF
http://fjallfoss.fcc.gov/cgi-bin/ws.exe/prod/cdbs/forms/prod/cdbsmenu.hts?context=25&appn=101294104&formid=387&fac_num=60736
http://kdrv.com/dtvfaq

On their home page they call it a "DTV On-Time Alert" :D

KEZI File# BDTUCT20090205ACE
http://fjallfoss.fcc.gov/cgi-bin/ws.exe/prod/cdbs/forms/prod/cdbsmenu.hts?context=25&appn=101293753&formid=387&fac_num=34406
http://kezi.com/ -- announced in breaking news

I saw nothing FCC offical for Portland, and station websites make this harder by not correcting conflicting articles on the same date. But here are the online announcements:

KATU, KPTV, KPDX will delay until June 12 (KPTV announcement includes sister station KPDX):
http://www.katu.com/news/39176897.html
http://www.kptv.com/technology/18660759/detail.html

KGW amended this article to say they will delay, but they haven't figured out when, that comes later. :rolleyes:
http://www.kgw.com/news-local/stories/kgw_020409_news_dtv_congress_delay.1d3c820b.html

KOIN and KOPB are sticking with 2/17, and KOPB plans to move to old analog CH 10.
http://www.koinlocal6.com/content/news/breakingnews/story/Phone-banks-now-open/VOjYD6Y_i0uf75e1cN9Zgw.cspx
http://www.opb.org/television/

KRCW looks like they will go with June 12, they changed all their general references to June 12, but didn't actually come out and say they had changed their mind about 2/17/09. KPXG (ION) has already transitioned to DTV only on 12/03/08.

Retired Texan

02-07-09, 02:11 PM

You can post your comments to President Obama at:

http://www.whitehouse.gov/briefing_room/dtv_delay_act/

FYI, The current description of this avenue of communication on the Whitehouse website is:
Update on Sunlight Before Signing

As we've noted on the blog, the President has signed the Lilly Ledbetter Fair Pay Act and the Children’s Health Insurance Program Reauthorization Act. We've also published the DTV Delay Act of 2009.

Since a few questions have come in, we want to update you on the President's campaign commitment to introducing more sunlight into the lawmaking process by posting non-emergency legislation online for five days before signing it. This policy will be implemented in full soon; currently we are working through implementation procedures and some initial issues with the congressional calendar.

The President remains committed to bringing more transparency to government, and in this spirit the White House will continue to publish legislation expected to come to his desk online for public comment as it moves through Congress.

MarioMania

02-07-09, 02:23 PM

ok, I'm getting really confused about this Channel thing

KTVU Ch.2 is going to be on Ch. 44, but it's on Virtal Ch. 2-1..I don't get it..Can anyone explain it to me..

narkspud

02-07-09, 02:35 PM

ok, I'm getting really confused about this Channel thing

KTVU Ch.2 is going to be on Ch. 44, but it's on Virtal Ch. 2-1..I don't get it..Can anyone explain it to me..

You can't have a digital channel and an analog channel on the same frequency at the same time.

But TV stations wanted to keep their old analog channel numbers for their new DTV stations.

Thus the birth of virtual channel numbers.

When your converter box (or whatever) does its channel scan, let's say it finds a DTV channel on 44. Channel 44 includes a digital data signal that says to the box, "don't call me 44, call me 2." So from then on, as far as the box is concerned, 44 is 2.

When you hit 2 on your remote or while scanning through the channels, your screen says 2, but the box is actually tuned to 44.

Got it?

Sammer

02-07-09, 02:50 PM

As we've noted on the blog, the President has signed the Lilly Ledbetter Fair Pay Act and the Children’s Health Insurance Program Reauthorization Act. We've also published the DTV Delay Act of 2009.

Since a few questions have come in, we want to update you on the President's campaign commitment to introducing more sunlight into the lawmaking process by posting non-emergency legislation online for five days before signing it.
If the President didn't consider this emergency legislation why did he support it in the first place?

Falcon_77

02-07-09, 03:51 PM

Kansas 
 
Topeka 
KTWU DT PBS 11 23 11 <a href="http://www.wibw.com/localnews/headlines/39184817.html">02/17/09</a> <a href="">200902xxxxx</a> N Washburn U (TV-11 has been halved) 
WIBW DT CBS 13 44 13 <a href="http://www.wibw.com/localnews/headlines/39184817.html">02/16/09</a> <a href="">200902xxxxx</a> N Gray...... 
 

I am going to pre-load this format for all stations, but this new format is going to make CA alone a lot of work. I will still plan to do CA, CT and RI, but if anyone else wants AK, UT, and NV let me know (by tomorrow). :D

Also, do we really need owner info? The filings don't make this easy as the owners have various subsidiaries. I've had to go to the Rabbit Ears website to check on each station's owner.

Edit: I should add that I'm pre-loading the code from the old DTR page to make this faster and removing everything after the final channel. (View > Page Source)

Sammer

02-07-09, 03:58 PM

Here are some articles about stations who want to shutdown analog before June 12th.
http://www.chippewa.com/articles/2009/02/07/news/doc498d0afceccda865617883.txt
http://www.macon.com/102/story/613036.html
http://www.ky3.com/news/contactky3reports/39137057.html
http://www.djournal.com/pages/story.asp?ID=285642&pub=1&div=News
Presumably KXII (Texoma) Sherman, TX shut down analog at 2 AM CST as planned.

MarioMania

02-07-09, 04:15 PM

I think I get it...

Is there a DTV that has the Channels you tune in....

Like KTVU Channel 44 not 2-1

afiggatt

02-07-09, 04:21 PM

Also, do we really need owner info? The filings don't make this easy as the owners have various subsidiaries. I've had to go to the Rabbit Ears website to check on each station's owner.
You can usually find the corporate owner of a station on their wikipedia entry.

With ABC, CBS, NBC, Fox, and Gannett stating that, if I am following this flood of news and postings correctly, they will keep the analog of all their O&O stations up until June 12, who owns the stations is playing a major role in which stations shut down on Feb. 17. Anyone know what other corporate holding companies have come out and said they will keep analog on for their stations - baring a specific situation pushing them to do otherwise - until June 12?

narkspud

02-07-09, 04:31 PM

I think I get it...

Is there a DTV that has the Channels you tune in....

Like KTVU Channel 44 not 2-1

Nope. Unless it's a reeeeeeeeal old one.

If you want to know what the actual channels are, there are lots of places online to find them, including some of the sig files on this very topic.

Sammer

02-07-09, 04:49 PM

Anyone know what other corporate holding companies have come out and said they will keep analog on for their stations - baring a specific situation pushing them to do otherwise until June 12?
AFAIK Hearst-Argyle and Meredith have committed to June 12th.

TalkingRat

02-07-09, 05:01 PM

Can't keep up with this. As of today, KOIN and OPB still had their countdown clocks and both have articles saying they are sticking with Feb 17.

But now I find this article -- yesterday's news -- saying everyone has delayed. What a mess that online they still say Feb 17. As it says in the OregonLive article,

"I kind of feel like Lucy and Charlie Brown and the football," said Steve Bass, chief executive of Oregon Public Broadcasting.

http://www.oregonlive.com/news/index.ssf/2009/02/portland_tv_stations_backtrack.html

Sammer

02-07-09, 06:46 PM

"I kind of feel like Lucy and Charlie Brown and the football," said Steve Bass, chief executive of Oregon Public Broadcasting.
Actually he's Charlie Brown, the digital transition is the football, and the gubmint is Lucy. We all know what Lucy does at the last second.

Falcon_77

02-07-09, 06:56 PM

I'm trying to decide if the Providence stations are really going to stick with the plan. Checking their websites, they said they will end analog no matter what. I will believe it when I see it, though WLWC/CW and WSBE/PBS are already gone.

TalkingRat

02-07-09, 07:40 PM

Yeah, Sammer, except here Lucy was the corporate station owner, taking orders from D.C. OPB was left standing all alone.

Falcon, on channel changes, your spreadsheet correctly identifies KPXG as shutting down analog and moving digital from CH4 to their old analog CH 22 frequency. That happened Dec 3, 2008. So am I reading this wrong, or does the FCC CDBS show them operating CH 4 digital and CH 22 analog still?

http://svartifoss2.fcc.gov/cdbs/cdbs_docs/dtv_search.cfm

If it loses the active link, I'm looking at Portland, OR DMA, and KPXG is fourth from the bottom.

TIA

ETA: the analog "not operating" notes look wrong, too.
ETA2: could this be a fast way to get licensee? You can sort by state with this search.

Larry Kenney

02-07-09, 08:55 PM

From Broadcast Engineering
http://broadcastengineering.com/hdtv/san-francisco-stations-delay-analog-shutdown-0206/

San Francisco TV stations delay analog shutdown
Feb 6, 2009 8:42 AM

At a meeting February 5, the heads of the 11 television stations broadcasting from San Francisco’s Sutro Tower decided to delay the analog shutdown until the new deadline just passed by Congress and the Senate. The new date of June 12 will add 84 days to the transition in order to assist viewers not yet ready. This also means that stations waiting until June 12 will also have higher electric bills and possible construction delays on permanent DTV facilities. As a result, Sutro Tower has just started a multimillion dollar project to add a new main and standby community antennas for most all stations. Problems concerning the construction delays and how that would affect the contractor were discussed at the meeting and have been worked out.

Also of concern are the two stations that are now broadcasting on out-of-core DTV channels and need to jump to channels now occupied by analog stations. KTVU is now broadcasting on DTV Channel 56 and will switch to DTV Channel 44 after the transition, but KBCW is currently using Channel 44 for its analog signal. In addition, KRON, which is now using DTV Channel 57, will switch to Channel 38, which KCNS is currently using for its analog signal. The local ABC O&O KGO is currently on Channel 7 analog and Channel 24 DTV but will switch back and use Channel 7 for its digital after the transition.

There are several stations in surrounding areas that plan to use currently occupied analog channels after the transition. With this staggered switch, there could be interference problems for viewers in some areas.

Trip in VA

02-07-09, 09:04 PM

I spent the day at Frostfest, so now I'm way behind, both on homework and on this stuff. Plus I'm wiped out from waking at 6AM and then walking around all day. I bought some great gear, a whip and a headset for my HT, 100' of LMR-400 cable to put up an outdoor antenna at home (I couldn't find an outdoor antenna I liked), plus a mag-mount to put in the window of my apartment here with a 2m/220/440 antenna. Plus an SO259 to SMA adapter, of course, to hook it to the VX-7R. =)

So then stations have just what ever time is left between signing and the end of the day to file? I might be all wrong on this but it seems what I put together.

They can start filing now. The FCC is given authority by the Communications Act to set policies like these.

Even if I am dead wrong on my dates, etc, one thing is positive even those that follow things like FCC are now confused.

Should I change my sig line to "Confusion, the Ultimate PSA...."

No kidding. People who can't wrap their heads around the often convoluted stuff the FCC does consider me to be someone who knows what's going on, and I'm lost.

I suspect the vast majority of stations that file will wait until Monday to do so.

(Just to be clear, I’m saying most of the filings will come in Monday, not that most stations will terminate on the 17th.

Any filings made on Monday will not show up til early Tuesday morning. Filings made on Friday will show up early Monday morning, which is what I'll be staying up late on Sunday for.

Unless of course, NONE have been filed besides WPTD/WPTO's from late Thrusday afternoon .... Probably unlikely, but I suppose it's possible ...

Agree with joblo that most of those which will be filing the notices will probably do it Monday ....

I've been sampling stations which are saying they'll be going on Feb 17 and have yet to find any other stations who've filed at all. WPTO and WPTD may be the only two stations anywhere to have filed yet.

Also, do we really need owner info? The filings don't make this easy as the owners have various subsidiaries. I've had to go to the Rabbit Ears website to check on each station's owner.

Yes. It's the compromise I made between listing by owner and listing by location. It's not a good one, but the best I have available.

If someone has few areas, please list the owners. If you're like Falcon and have large areas, just leave the owner blank and I'll attempt to take care of it. I don't know when, but I'll try to get it done...

Edit: I should add that I'm pre-loading the code from the old DTR page to make this faster and removing everything after the final channel. (View > Page Source)

Sounds good.

- Trip

Falcon_77

02-07-09, 09:29 PM

Falcon, on channel changes, your spreadsheet correctly identifies KPXG as shutting down analog and moving digital from CH4 to their old analog CH 22 frequency. That happened Dec 3, 2008. So am I reading this wrong, or does the FCC CDBS show them operating CH 4 digital and CH 22 analog still?

The FCC is way behind in this department (perhaps by design, I don't know). Almost all of the stations which have already ended analog still have licensed records for the old facilities, but until the licenses are surrendered, I suppose they won't be removed from the database. A LOT of clean-up will be needed after the transition...

The FCC still shows KGMB-DT as licensed on 8 in Honolulu when it hasn't been there in years (if ever) and 8 is also licensed to KHON-DT.

coyoteaz

02-07-09, 09:31 PM

Trip in VA

02-07-09, 09:33 PM

On 2/4, WFAA filed an STA request to terminate A8 and D9 and flash cut to D8 on 2/17. This was in addition to the notice in their Correspondence Folder. It seems to meet the new requirements, but maybe I'm missing something. Thoughts?

They'll need to refile if they plan to shut off on 02/17/09. The STA might still be a valid filing, but the silent notification was filed before the announcement and on the old form.

- Trip

Alan Gordon

02-07-09, 09:50 PM

Here are some articles about stations who want to shutdown analog before June 12th.
http://www.macon.com/102/story/613036.html

Interesting...

That article states that WABW will be shutting off analog this month... and they have yet to be listed on the FCC website as doing so.

~Alan

Dr Touchtone

02-07-09, 10:48 PM

Interesting...

That article states that WABW will be shutting off analog this month... and they have yet to be listed on the FCC website as doing so.

~Alan

With the lack of FCC Field Offices, who's gonna catch them?? (Some small markets have turned off their analogs by accident or technical troubles and noone called...and even if they did, would it matter??)
Heck even in Houston, there is no longer an active field office (but there are some field engineers who work out of their home...I happen to know the EIC since we went to high school together and his sister in law works for a friend of mine :).......so I guess Houston would do it by the book........but say Victoria?? I could see it happening there.....and not a word would be said.

Dr Touchtone

02-07-09, 10:50 PM

They'll need to refile if they plan to shut off on 02/17/09. The STA might still be a valid filing, but the silent notification was filed before the announcement and on the old form.

- Trip

Has President Obama signed the bill into law yet?? I thought it was still on the table (I know its a done deal unless he gets a large number of negative opinions via the website)......but still.......how can they enforce a law that isnt in effect yet??

Nitewatchman

02-07-09, 10:57 PM

No kidding. People who can't wrap their heads around the often convoluted stuff the FCC does consider me to be someone who knows what's going on, and I'm lost.

Speaking of confusion for the stations notifying FCC of Feb 17 shutoff and, as required updating their DTR's ...

There's all the stuff on the form 387 that still specify Feb 17 as the *end* of the transition, and there doesn't seem to be any specific guidance provided in Thursday's notice on what option stations should choose when the "end of transition date" AND feb 17 is specified ...

For instance, in Section V --- Which option should stations shutting down on Feb 17 actually check .... LOL ....

Shouldn't they have *updated* that form, or used a new different form for these filings to reflect the *new* June 12 date for end of transition in places where it specifies Feb 17 for end of transition? (for when the bill, presumably gets signed anyway) ...

It looks like WPTO/WPTD just did they best to try to make it clear they are shutting down Feb 17 ....

WPTO and WPTD may be the only two stations anywhere to have filed yet.

Probably seems unlikely, but I wonder if it is at all possible those two filed the "new" Feb 17 shutdown notification form accidently -- thinking they were filing under the "pre-2/5 notice" situation, without knowing yet about the issues involved for WPTD regarding post-transition facilities/STA/etc ... I.e. accidently choosing the "wrong" form to use for the notification per the "pre 2/5 public notice" situation ... I could see where it's possible something like that could happen ...

But, If not -- Since WPTO would just be shutting off their analog, seems like that one should work out OK ...

But regarding WPTD ... Since #1). They Indicated in their updated DTR, and/or an exhibit attached to it they are going to Shut down analog 16 and Digital 58 at 23:59 EST, Feb 17 and Fire up the Digital on channel 16 on Feb 18, 00:01 EST ..

And #2). They have a "condition" in the authorization for their post-transition CP that prohibits operation until "Feb 18, 2009" ..... (more info in Dayton thread, including link to authorization for their current post-transition CP)

Anyone want to place bets on whether WPTD will either :

#1). File, I'd assume SOON for STA AND special permission to operate their post-transition DTV facility beginning, presumably Feb 18 ?

Or :

#2). File another update for form 387 before Monday specifying channel 58 for DTV operation between feb 18 and June 12 or whatever ....

Or :

#3). Just do what they say they're going to do in the updated DTR ... (I know, I know, but right now that's what "it says" they're going to do)

Or ... is it even possible they(WPTD and perhaps WPTO as well) could "change their minds" alltoghether and update the 387 to keep the analogs up until June 12, and update their "Notification of Termination of Analog Service by February 17, 2009" form to say "Resumption of operations" say, on feb 18 ...

I'll try to check out WPTD/WPTO a bit over the next few days(and after feb 10) and see what they are doing crawl wise and saying(if anything) on air. Probably should monitor the analogs a bit in case they don't put crawls on the digital, Which will be kinda Odd since I probably haven't watched those analog stations since their Digitals first came on air in 2003(for WPTD) or 2004(for WPTO) ....

---------------------------------

Only TWO (apparenty) filed so far, and at least ONE of them is already in the " confusing" stack .... (for me at least) ....

Trip in VA

02-07-09, 11:10 PM

Has President Obama signed the bill into law yet?? I thought it was still on the table (I know its a done deal unless he gets a large number of negative opinions via the website)......but still.......how can they enforce a law that isnt in effect yet??

The FCC has the authority to set the rules regarding the digital transition regardless of this particular law. This could easily be interpreted as the FCC trying to collect last-minute information on station plans.

- Trip

Piggie

02-07-09, 11:36 PM

They'll need to refile if they plan to shut off on 02/17/09. The STA might still be a valid filing, but the silent notification was filed before the announcement and on the old form.

- Trip

Seems the more I read the more I am getting lost! Is there a form number to look for when we find the applications for the "new" form?

I am looking for all the hints and specifics I can get to do this right.

Trip in VA

02-08-09, 12:01 AM

Seems the more I read the more I am getting lost! Is there a form number to look for when we find the applications for the "new" form?

I am looking for all the hints and specifics I can get to do this right.

Yeah, I know, it's very very confusing. If the government wanted to avoid confusion, they've done the exact polar opposite of what they wanted.

The way to find filings is to search each one individually, unfortunately. I've been unable to find any alternative.

http://svartifoss2.fcc.gov/prod/cdbs/pubacc/prod/sta_sear.htm

Use WPTO or WPTD as practice. Start on that link, search for Dayton, OH. (Or search by call sign, either way works.) Click on the "Click for Details" link in the WPTD row. Click "view correspondence folder." Now you see two silent notices. The first one says "Notification of Termination of Analog Service." This is the link that you would copy and paste to go with the date on the listing. "Click to View Details" will let you see the actual filing with any notes all the way at the bottom of the filing.

I know of know way to just display a list of those.

Does that help?

- Trip

Alan Gordon

02-08-09, 12:06 AM

With the lack of FCC Field Offices, who's gonna catch them??

My point was rather that if this article is accurate, WABW intends to end analog this month... which was previously unknown til now. I'm assuming their intention is to switch to their post-transition channel (6)... which would mean that WCTV (Gray Television) is STILL (they previously filed to shut down regardless of a delay) intending on shutting down analog this month. Of course, this is all dependent on this information being correct and up to date.

It also told us that with the exception of WABW, GPB (Georgia Public Broadcasting) intends to delay shutting off the rest of their stations' analog signals.

~Alan

Sammer

02-08-09, 01:23 AM

I'm assuming their intention is to switch to their post-transition channel (6)... which would mean that WCTV (Gray Television) is STILL (they previously filed to shut down regardless of a delay) intending on shutting down analog this month.
~Alan
While this is only speculation IMHO Gray is one of the station groups most likely (in most cases) to shut down analog on or before Feb. 17th.

Piggie

02-08-09, 03:47 AM

I know of know way to just display a list of those.

Does that help?

- Trip

Yes, I was very close. This makes it a little easier to actually see one.

I notice if you search on just Dayton OH, you see under WPTD, Licensed and Silent but under WPTO, you have to look under Click for Details as all it says on the summary page for Dayton is just Licensed.

I know here in FL and probably other places, you can't just search Orlando FL for Orlando DMA stations. Many of them are licensed to Melbourne FL and at least on to Leesburg and other cities. Pretty much have to just search Florida to find them all. I can't find a way around that either.

foxeng

02-08-09, 05:20 AM

Has President Obama signed the bill into law yet??

Latest word is sometime after Monday.

gbynum

02-08-09, 07:20 AM

Nope. Unless it's a reeeeeeeeal old one.

If you want to know what the actual channels are, there are lots of places online to find them, including some of the sig files on this very topic.On my Sony, the Diagnostics selection (signal strength on 8VSB modulation is there), actual RF frequency (... RF frequency ... redundant ... perhaps I should say signal frequency?) is given. There are numerous web resources that correlate channel numbers to nominal frequency.

Trip in VA

02-08-09, 10:07 AM

Yes, I was very close. This makes it a little easier to actually see one.

I notice if you search on just Dayton OH, you see under WPTD, Licensed and Silent but under WPTO, you have to look under Click for Details as all it says on the summary page for Dayton is just Licensed.

WPTD is listed as "licensed and silent" because they cut their power on their analog facility. The FCC rule says that stations must maintain 85% of their FCC-licensed power or they have to file an STA for reduced power. They are then listed as "silent" because they're not technically operating with their "licensed" facilities.

The bigger problem you're going to find is that stations which filed before the rules change but will continue to be shown as "licensed and silent" even though they aren't necessarily silent.

What a mess.

I know here in FL and probably other places, you can't just search Orlando FL for Orlando DMA stations. Many of them are licensed to Melbourne FL and at least on to Leesburg and other cities. Pretty much have to just search Florida to find them all. I can't find a way around that either.

I figured you could search Orlando and get some of them, and then search by call sign on the rest of them rather than having to sift through all those results. That might make it easier for you.

- Trip

iowegian3

02-08-09, 02:53 PM

Would it help in cases where there are lots of stations in a DMA to develop a list like this?:

In TV Query, go to Search by a Radius, plug in a lat/lon, use a radius such as 100 km, then (I think?) you could drill down to get individual station results.

You can put me down for CO for this project, but I usually hit the hay by 10 pm MT, so I wouldn't get to this until 10 am the following morning. Thought you'd want results sooner than that. BTW, does the update start this Mon. early AM?

Trip in VA

02-08-09, 03:03 PM

Would it help in cases where there are lots of stations in a DMA to develop a list like this?:

In TV Query, go to Search by a Radius, plug in a lat/lon, use a radius such as 100 km, then (I think?) you could drill down to get individual station results.

We pretty much have the list already as my old DTR page, which I've left up for the time being, has all the stations involved.

You can put me down for CO for this project, but I usually hit the hay by 10 pm MT, so I wouldn't get to this until 10 am the following morning. Thought you'd want results sooner than that. BTW, does the update start this Mon. early AM?

Alrighty. Did you find the post with the instructions on what to do?

And yes, it's tonight after midnight ET/10PM MT.

- Trip

Piggie

02-08-09, 03:23 PM

I figured you could search Orlando and get some of them, and then search by call sign on the rest of them rather than having to sift through all those results. That might make it easier for you.

- Trip

Ok, is this map and it's links a good way to find all the stations in the DMA's I am searching?

http://rabbitears.info/market.php?request=marketmap

Seems like if I cover

Key West
Miami
Palm Beach
Fort Myers
Tampa
Orlando
Gainesville
Jacksonville

I will have my part?? I think someone has

Tallahassee
Panama City

Which is fine by me.

Piggie :@)

PS: Normally I like mud, but this is insane!

Trip in VA

02-08-09, 03:30 PM

Ok, is this map and it's links a good way to find all the stations in the DMA's I am searching?

http://rabbitears.info/market.php?request=marketmap

Yes. That map links direct to my listings. You can ignore LP stations like WYKE-CA and WSSH-LD in your market, as those stations are not affected by any of this.

Seems like if I cover

Key West
Miami
Palm Beach
Fort Myers
Tampa
Orlando
Gainesville
Jacksonville

I will have my part?? I think someone has

Tallahassee
Panama City

Which is fine by me.

Piggie :@)

PS: Normally I like mud, but this is insane!

Agreed.

But yes, that's what could be done. If it turns out to be too much for you, then just drop the southern half of it and keep the areas immediately surrounding you (Gainesville, Jacksonville, Orlando, Tampa) and someone else will cover the rest of it.

- Trip

Falcon_77

02-08-09, 03:41 PM

I will still plan to do CA, CT and RI, but if anyone else wants AK, UT, and NV let me know (by tomorrow).

I can handle AK, UT and NV.

Trip in VA

02-08-09, 03:48 PM

I can handle AK, UT and NV.

Okay. I'm working on integrating the California data you sent me into the page. Once it's uploaded, you can pull it back out of the source to update tonight and send to me when updated. Then I'll be able to just delete the old California section and copy+paste whatever new data you send as a group.

- Trip

Trip in VA

02-08-09, 04:14 PM

Okay. I'm working on integrating the California data you sent me into the page. Once it's uploaded, you can pull it back out of the source to update tonight and send to me when updated. Then I'll be able to just delete the old California section and copy+paste whatever new data you send as a group.

I've finished it. Go see and pull the code for it back out of the page source.

- Trip

afiggatt

02-08-09, 04:58 PM

Anyone willing to venture a guess on how many station will file for shutdown on February 17 (or 16)? 200? 300? 400? More? We may not have a close to complete list of flings in the CDBS database until the early AM hours of Wednesday because late filings on Monday might not get processed until Tuesday and show up on Wednesday. Or perhaps even a day later.

With the number of big markets held in check from shutting down as a group on Feb. 17 by ABC, CBS, Fox, NBC, Hearst-Argyle, Gannett, etc O&O stations, that will reduce the number of stations going on (original) schedule than we were guessing at a few days ago.

Piggie

02-08-09, 05:14 PM

But yes, that's what could be done. If it turns out to be too much for you, then just drop the southern half of it and keep the areas immediately surrounding you (Gainesville, Jacksonville, Orlando, Tampa) and someone else will cover the rest of it.

- Trip

If this went on for weeks I probably would say too much. But for a few nights to a week, it's a pleasure considering the time you put into rabbitears and all the times I used it before we even formally met.

Consider this a pay back, but you know, pay backs are ....... LOL.....

Never make buddies with a Pig, lol. :@)

Trip in VA

02-08-09, 05:19 PM

I greatly appreciate it. :)

For anyone who's interested, I've been working on the page a bit. Still more I want to do with it before the midnight CDBS data dump, but we'll see what kind of pace I manage to keep.

- Trip

foxeng

02-08-09, 06:44 PM

DTV Switch Date Rankles TV Stations
Stations may go early as Congress clashes
By John Eggerton -- Broadcasting & Cable, 2/9/2009 12:00:00 AM MT

Congress agreed to move the DTV transition date to June 12 last week, but that may be the only certainty in an issue where the seams are most definitely showing.

According to Democrats who pushed the change through at the urging of the White House, the goal will be a seamless transition through the next four months, rather than the “bungled” one overseen by Republicans and the previous administration. But hundreds of stations will likely go digital on Feb. 17 regardless, which may cause the FCC to step in. In implementing the rules, the FCC has said that while stations may still ask to pull the plug on Feb. 17, the commission may deny the request if it feels it is not in the public interest—for example, if all the stations in a market with high analog-only penetration want to make the switch early.

So, while the date move was billed as voluntary for stations, in practice it may not be.

Another reason for the delay: Clearing up the waiting list for government-subsidized coupons will have to wait for Congress to pass the economic stimulus package, which may not happen until March.

“Teamed with the stimulus appropriation, the delay will be sufficient to assure a smooth DTV transition,” said House Telecommunications and Internet Subcommittee Chairman Rick Boucher (D-Va.), who spearheaded the Democrats' debate on the bill. But a smooth transition, even with the extension, seems a tall order. FCC Commissioner Robert McDowell said it was going to be messy.

Viewers must now be re-educated about the new date. There are still DTV reception issues affecting numerous stations. And besides moving the date, the bill's other purpose was to allow everyone whose DTV-to-analog converter box coupons have expired to apply for new ones. But that does not take anyone off the coupon waiting list, which is now pushing four million applications.

Depending on how many people reapply for coupons and get converter boxes, there could be a shortage of those boxes, Consumer Electronics Association President Gary Shapiro warned last week.

Both sides should brace for conflict. While some broadcasters have already scheduled crews to move antennas, others don't want to continue to pay for delivering dual signals at an energy cost that one Republican estimated could be $140 million nationwide. The commission said it will try to be accommodating, but it will have to perform its balancing act quickly: Broadcasters have until Feb. 9 to inform the FCC of their plans.

Acting FCC Chairman Michael Copps said last week that ABC, CBS, Fox, NBC and Telemundo have pledged to keep their analog signals running through June 12, while Gannett and Hearst-Argyle said the vast majority of their stations would do so. McDowell added that the FCC would need to balance the public interest in maintaining analog with the needs of stations that might have to decide between keeping analog and cutting staffers in a withering economy.

During sometimes heated floor debate on the date-move bill last week, Republicans argued that the result of the bill's passage would be $650 million spent needlessly in an economy that's tanking, first responders denied access to spectrum for emergency communications, and further confusion for viewers who had been told for the past two years that Feb. 17 was the deadline, period. It was also pointed out that private companies spent billions to get access to the spectrum, which the government promised to deliver on Feb. 17.

Democrats countered that moving the date would buy time to ensure that the 6.5 million TV households Nielsen predicted were unready for the switch would now be prepared. The Nielsen number was reduced, the day after the bill was passed, to 5.8 million. That translates to 5.1% of U.S. households being unready, meaning without cable or satellite, a DTV set, or a converter box hooked up—though Nielsen conceded that some of those houses counted might have boxes sitting in the closet.

Democrats also argued that, according to the FCC, few first responders would make immediate use of reclaimed analog TV spectrum, and that the greater pubic safety threat would have been to allow millions of analog-only viewers to lose their lifeline to TV service. Boucher also said that the two largest bidders for spectrum, AT&T and Verizon, had supported moving the date, as did the major networks and some public safety organizations.

A larger number of stations than previously anticipated are likely to terminate their analog operations on the original date of Feb. 17, according to Ardell Hill, senior VP of broadcast operations for Media General. Maintaining analog service for the Media General group costs $150,000 in electricity per month alone. “That's just raw electric, to keep analog running,” Hill says. “In today's environment, that's a lot of money.”

Media General plans to turn off early in several markets, chiefly ones where all the stations are already on their final DTV channel assignment.

John Broomall, who runs non-commercial Christian station WATC Atlanta, plans to switch on Feb. 17, “unless we are hauled kicking and screaming” to June 12. He pointed to the cost of continuing with his aging analog equipment: “I am ready on a moment's notice to produce a spot that says we don't care when anybody else is shutting down, we're shutting down on [Feb. 17].”

Broomall already has a 30-minute program on the history of television ready to go for that last day. “At the very end, this hand goes to an off button on-camera, and everything goes black.”

http://www.broadcastingcable.com/article/173788-DTV_Switch_Date_Rankles_TV_Stations.php

Alan Gordon

02-08-09, 07:32 PM

DTV Switch Date Rankles TV Stations
Stations may go early as Congress clashes
By John Eggerton -- Broadcasting & Cable, 2/9/2009 12:00:00 AM MT

Broomall already has a 30-minute program on the history of television ready to go for that last day. “At the very end, this hand goes to an off button on-camera, and everything goes black.”

http://www.broadcastingcable.com/article/173788-DTV_Switch_Date_Rankles_TV_Stations.php

COOL!

I should be ready by midnight tonight. I might be a minute or two late (allergies have been bothering me real bad today), but I'll be here.

~Alan

Trip in VA

02-08-09, 07:44 PM

No worries. It will likely be a bit after midnight before the filings are in. I'll be posting here when it's good to start looking. As those here last time observed, the applications come in bit by bit. The forms that don't have dates on them don't show up on the search results, but they still delay the regular filings from showing up.

- Trip

jtbell

02-08-09, 09:12 PM

Trip in VA

02-08-09, 09:19 PM

I've been trawling through stations' web sites while waiting for tonight's batch of filings. I've found some stations that have reset their DTV countdown clocks and updated their FAQs to correspond to a 6/12 analog shutdown, but don't have an explicit announcement that they're going to wait until 6/12. Should I enter them as 06/12 or as --/--?

--/--

They need to have an explicit announcement, because a lot of those countdowns are sourced from one or two other sites and may not be accurate for that particular station.

I got your e-mail and am working on posting it right now.

- Trip

Trip in VA

02-08-09, 09:33 PM

Piggie, here's one for you: http://www.wxel.org/index.php

- Trip

jtbell

02-08-09, 09:56 PM

OK, I'll make whatever adjustments are necessary when I add tonight's filings.

So far, I've got all of SC, plus northern GA (Atlanta and Augusta). I see someone else did Charlotte NC.

Trip in VA

02-09-09, 12:00 AM

I just entered Charlotte because I was e-mailed an article about it. It's still yours.

As for this evening...

"Lit up with anticipation
We arrive at the launching site"

Some song lyrics to get us going. I'll keep an eye on it and post here when we can start looking for notices.

Also, when you're putting links to the Notices of Termination of Analog Operations (or whatever they're called), be sure you use the "Click Here to View Details" link on the Correspondence Folder page. You cannot copy the link from the address bar on the gray page because that link expires. I learned that the hard way. Anyway, use that link as your link going with the termination date.

Also, when you go to search, if you put in a call sign and it comes up blank, put a % after it. That'll get you some results.

So, here we go, be ready. :)

- Trip

Trip in VA

02-09-09, 12:07 AM

Just been sampling... jtbell, go search WATC. You will be pleasantly surprised.

Otherwise, sit tight, they're still coming in. I'll be posting again.

- Trip

Alan Gordon

02-09-09, 12:20 AM

What do I need to put as the starting date for the search?

~Alan

Trip in VA

02-09-09, 12:24 AM

http://svartifoss2.fcc.gov/prod/cdbs/pubacc/prod/sta_sear.htm

Use that form. No date required. Search either by the city of license, by the state, or by call sign with a % after it. Click for details, then View Correspondence Folder. Station which is terminating has a "Notification of Termination of Analog Service." Copy and paste that link to go with the date, then open it up and there's a line on the gray form about nightlight service.

But you might want to wait on it, they're not all in yet and you only want to do this once in an evening.

- Trip

Trip in VA

02-09-09, 12:26 AM

I've confirmed WHRO and WVIR and KSPR thus far.

Piggie: Go look at WZVN.

- Trip

Trip in VA

02-09-09, 12:33 AM

Alright folks, it's safe to start looking. All the non-dated forms are in.

- Trip

Alan Gordon

02-09-09, 12:33 AM

I've confirmed WHRO and WVIR and KSPR thus far.

WTXL (Tallahassee, FL) appears to be going ahead this month as well. WTVY in Dothan appears to be delaying (they were going to go this month regardless).

~Alan

Trip in VA

02-09-09, 12:45 AM

WMBC, WVIA, WDRL.

WICZ, WCFE.

WHKY will nightlight. WPFO.

- Trip

jtbell

02-09-09, 12:47 AM

I've been going in through the normal TV query at http://www.fcc.gov/mb/video/tvq.html , using the "detailed output" option and then following the "Station Info" link, then the "Correspondence Folder". But your method saves a couple of clicks.

So far all the SC ETV stations that I've checked have the "Notification of Termination of Analog Service."

mathwhiz

02-09-09, 12:48 AM

I didn't find any updates for MI/OH. My mouse has died too - so it's hard to use my computer until it charges overnight. I'll send what I have and double check tomorrow and also (pending time availability) check stations websites for updates there and work on getting in owners names into my file.

jtbell

02-09-09, 12:55 AM

WCSC (CBS) in Charleston SC has a "Notification of Suspension of Operations" dated 2/5, but not the new "Notification of Termination of Analog Service." So I wait for the new form to turn up, right?

[added] I noticed that all the stations with the NTAS form so far had the status "Licensed and Silent" so I tried searching on that for the whole state. Sure enough, all the ETV stations and a few others popped up. Will this catch all of them?

Trip in VA

02-09-09, 12:58 AM

Yes. It must be the latter to count. Once you get through all your assigned stations, let me know and I'll give you the steps for finding the 387s.

- Trip

Falcon_77

02-09-09, 01:04 AM

I'm not finding anything of note yet for my areas, but I did find a better way to search the correspondence folder.

Just change the facility ID to the station you want to view. Luckily, I included facility ID's on the spreadsheet.

mathwhiz

02-09-09, 01:05 AM

Last Friday I went through the bookmarked all my stations station page so that I can just open them all up and check the correspondence folder.

Trip in VA

02-09-09, 01:08 AM

Falcon: Don't miss KCET's app for 1000 kW on channel 28. Just caught it.

- Trip

Falcon_77

02-09-09, 01:19 AM

Finally found one. KNPB/PBS Reno.

KCET applied for 1000kW? Thanks for the heads-up, but will Mexico go for it?

Trip in VA

02-09-09, 01:20 AM

Ugh, my eyes are starting to fail me. I can't sleep yet though. I've found more but haven't bothered listing them yet.

Alright, so for any stations with termination notices, check and see if they have a 387 filed.

http://svartifoss2.fcc.gov/prod/cdbs/pubacc/prod/app_sear.htm

Form Number: 387
Put in the station's call sign with a % after it and see if there's a 387 dated with 02/09/09. If so, copy+paste the details link and stick it in this little section:

<a href="link goes here">20090206xxx</a>

Like with the Notice, you must copy+paste that link and not the address in the address bar on the gray page.

Replace the xxx with the rest of the file number, which is on the results. Then check the 387 for anything interesting you might want to put as a note, if applicable.

- Trip

Alan Gordon

02-09-09, 01:23 AM

WTXL (Tallahassee, FL) appears to be going ahead this month as well. WTVY in Dothan appears to be delaying (they were going to go this month regardless).

WFXU (Tallahassee, FL) appears to be signing off this month as well.

~Alan

Trip in VA

02-09-09, 01:23 AM

I've been through VA, NC, WV, MD, DC, DE, PA, NY, NJ, MA, VT, NH, ME, KY, IL, IN. Trying to figure out what else I need to do.

WFXU signed off at the end of last year. They got evicted off their tower.

Add WI and AL... I'm trying to get through AL anyway, all the APT stations filed. I went through all the non-APT stations, now I'm going back and just got WAIQ.

- Trip

Frank-0-Video

02-09-09, 01:28 AM

Greetings Trip ...

Columbus GA and Montgomery AL ... Feb 17th, June 12th or What?

Thanx-A-Lot, Frank-0-Video

justalurker

02-09-09, 01:33 AM

Alright, so for any stations with termination notices, check and see if they have a 387 filed.

http://svartifoss2.fcc.gov/prod/cdbs/pubacc/prod/app_sear.htm

Form Number: 387
Put in the station's call sign with a % after it and see if there's a 387 dated with 02/09/09.Doing that search leaving the call sign BLANK and entering 20090206% in the second half of the file number field finds 68 records filed Friday and accepted 02/09/09 ... I could not find filings for 20090207 or 20090208. There were 9 filed 20090205 and accepted 02/06/09.

Hopefully the flood gates will open tonight (Monday Night).

Alan Gordon

02-09-09, 01:34 AM

WFXU signed off at the end of last year. They got evicted off their tower.

That's what I thought.... but they have a notice to be off on February 17, 2009:

LINK (http://fjallfoss.fcc.gov/cgi-bin/ws.exe/prod/cdbs/forms/prod/cdbsmenu.hts?context=25&appn=101294164&formid=910&fac_num=22245)

Oh, if you're going through AL, I guess I don't need to anymore (I was fixing to start AL)?

~Alan

Trip in VA

02-09-09, 01:37 AM

Interesting. Dunno what to make of WFXU. I hope you're not using that link on the code for my page, because that link will expire after a few days.

Frank, my list will be updated a little later in the evening or tomorrow morning. Check it then for your updates; at this point, I don't know.

- Trip

Alan Gordon

02-09-09, 01:42 AM

Interesting. Dunno what to make of WFXU. I hope you're not using that link on the code for my page, because that link will expire after a few days. .

I copied the shortcut from the correspondence page... not the address bar from the gray page. Did you want the address for the correspondence page? I only have a few stations that filed so it won't take me long to swap out the addresses.

Frank, my list will be updated a little later in the evening or tomorrow morning. Check it then for your updates; at this point, I don't know.

No Columbus, GA station has re-filed to shut off this month. I haven't gotten to AL yet (computer issues), so can't speak for Montgomery, AL yet.

~Alan

Trip in VA

02-09-09, 01:44 AM

I copied the shortcut from the correspondence page... not the address bar from the gray page. Did you want the address for the correspondence page? I only have a few stations that filed so it won't take me long to swap out the addresses.

Right. Sounds like you did the right thing. I was just checking because the link you posted on the forum here was from the address bar of the gray page.

No Columbus, GA station has re-filed to shut off this month. I haven't gotten to AL yet (computer issues), so can't speak for Montgomery, AL yet.

~Alan

APT filed and WCOV and WAAY filed. That's it for Alabama. I'm about to go to MS.

- Trip

Trip in VA

02-09-09, 01:58 AM

Got through MS and now I've done every state east of the MS that wasn't claimed, plus AL (sorry Alan, I forgot) and VI. That leaves RI and CT for Falcon, MI and OH for Mathwhiz, NC/SC/GA/TN for jtbell (if you don't want to do TN, let me know and I'll get it), GA/FL for Alan, and FL for Piggie. Plus everything west of the MS that wasn't claimed is left, which I think I'm too wiped out to handle right now.

I need to run through and do 387s...

- Trip

Alan Gordon

02-09-09, 02:02 AM

Though I had to deal with computer issues... I'm done with South Georgia and the Florida panhandle. I'm going to go back and check the 387s and go back and check a couple of stations I forgot to see if they were planning on doing nightlight programming.

I do have a couple of questions though:

1. Do you want me to send you the information via PM or E-Mail, Trip?

2. The layout I got for stations the other day did not include how to put the links (and though you posted it, I'd prefer not to hunt for it after hunting through the FCC site). Could you please post how you want the station info layed out so I can see how to put the link in correctly?

~Alan

Trip in VA

02-09-09, 02:07 AM

1. Do you want me to send you the information via PM or E-Mail, Trip?

E-mail it. webmaster at rabbitears dot info.

2. The layout I got for stations the other day did not include how to put the links (and though you posted it, I'd prefer not to hunt for it after hunting through the FCC site). Could you please post how you want the station info layed out so I can see how to put the link in correctly?

~Alan

KSNT DT NBC 27 28 27 <a href="analognoticelinkhere">02/17/09</a> <a href="387linkgoeshere">200902xxxxx</a> N New Vision 

Replace the xxxxx with the appropriate part of the file number that's missing.

- Trip

jtbell

02-09-09, 02:10 AM

I did find a better way to search the correspondence folder.

Just change the facility ID to the station you want to view. Luckily, I included facility ID's on the spreadsheet.

Nice! It helps to hide the columns between the callsigns and the fac-IDs on the spreadsheet, and to take a peek at one of the filings occasionally to make sure you're not "out of sync." The folder page doesn't identify the station! :p

Falcon_77

02-09-09, 02:17 AM

Well, I'm spent for the night, but got through all but one of my assigned states and half of CA. In addition to KPBN, I found the following:

KEET KBAK KION KCOY KSBY

KCSG

Trip in VA

02-09-09, 02:24 AM

jtbell, I integrated your changes. They looked good, just note that you had WNTV and WUNF out of order. I corrected them.

Thanks for the help Falcon, good to know.

- Trip

coyoteaz

02-09-09, 02:29 AM

Done with my 4 (there are A LOT of TV stations in TX :mad:).
AZ: KMOH
NM: KENW
OK: KETA, KOET, KOED, KWET (all of OETA); KRSC, KWHB, KGEB
TX: KVCT, KAVU (all of the Victoria market); KWBU, KYTX, KJTV, KPBT, KVTV

Trip, you'll have email shortly.

mrvideo

02-09-09, 02:30 AM

Did iowegian3's post get pulled because of all the HTML code?

I get this e-mail with lots of embedded HTML, but it is missing from here.

jtbell

02-09-09, 02:37 AM

Argh, I forgot about TN, and I have get up at a decent time tomorrow morning to finish some grading before class. If you or someone can get the first version up, I can probably handle the updates tomorrow night.

Trip in VA

02-09-09, 02:38 AM

Alright, I got your e-mails, coyoteaz and iowegian3. Anyone else, keep them coming; I'll put it all together tomorrow afternoon. I need to get my 6 hours.

jtbell, no worries. I'll get TN tomorrow. I saw three or four 387s so the load shouldn't be too bad.

- Trip

mrvideo

02-09-09, 02:41 AM

Are the three stations in Madison that are pulling the analog plug on the 17 not listed because whomever is going through the requests for this state just hadn't gotten there yet?

WISC WKOW WMTV

WMSN to announce this week

WHA - March 14th?

WBUW - not a clue

This list just adds another nail in the coffin that Congress was screwed up in doing the delay. There are a sh!tload of stations on the list.

Thanks to all that are assembling the data.

Trip in VA

02-09-09, 02:44 AM

mrvideo: I guess so. There's no telling what's going to happen. I have a feeling that tomorrow's data dump will be much bigger than today's. I did Wisconsin and what you see on my page is what was there.

I'm doing TN before I go to bed, it'll be up in 3 or 4 minutes.

- Trip

mrvideo

02-09-09, 02:52 AM

I have a feeling that tomorrow's data dump will be much bigger than today's.

What a mess. Congress is kinda like the three Stooges - "What a fine mess you've gotten us into"

Trip in VA

02-09-09, 02:53 AM

No kidding.

Good night, all! Good luck!

- Trip

Piggie

02-09-09, 02:59 AM

All I found were 387s. Hope to heck I did this correct.

I am attaching here, to lazy to open Pegasus.

I didn't get the % thing by the call sign so there is so little you can add that fast if I did it wrong.

Piggie :@)

PS: Sound like a found more than most but really very few.

5 including the one you gave me. I did find my local WCJB's 387.

I know WUFT said on the air they were delaying with the Preez...

bb37

02-09-09, 06:14 AM

I've been through VA, NC, WV, MD, DC, DE, PA, NY, NJ, MA, VT, NH, ME, KY, IL, IN. Trying to figure out what else I need to do.
I looked for 387 filings for stations in IN and found nothing since February 3. Is that what you are seeing, also?

It's been reported elsewhere that WTHR, WXIN, and WTTV intend to keep their analog transmitters on until June. It's also been reported that WRTV, WTTK, and WNDU intend to turn off their analog transmitters on February 17. I guess we'll have to see what paperwork they file.

Trip in VA

02-09-09, 08:42 AM

Someone please restrain me.

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=15774865#post15774865

I think I did fairly well with myself two posts down where I responded.

- Trip

Trip in VA

02-09-09, 08:55 AM

All I found were 387s. Hope to heck I did this correct.

I'll have to provide more detailed instructions on finding the notices then. Don't worry too much about it, I show you how to find them. WZVN filed a notice I know and no 387.

I am attaching here, to lazy to open Pegasus.

No worries, it looks good. :)

I didn't get the % thing by the call sign so there is so little you can add that fast if I did it wrong.

Piggie :@)

PS: Sound like a found more than most but really very few.

5 including the one you gave me. I did find my local WCJB's 387.

The % thing was for the search for the Notices. I'll help you out with it later in the day.

I looked for 387 filings for stations in IN and found nothing since February 3. Is that what you are seeing, also?

Didn't see any 387s for Indiana, though WSBT and WIPB both filed notifications.

It's been reported elsewhere that WTHR, WXIN, and WTTV intend to keep their analog transmitters on until June. It's also been reported that WRTV, WTTK, and WNDU intend to turn off their analog transmitters on February 17. I guess we'll have to see what paperwork they file.

I got your e-mail and the page looks great. When I have some time later in the day, I'll integrate it into my page and you'll see it show up online.

I was surprised, though, that there was nothing or almost nothing in Michigan.

- Trip

mathwhiz

02-09-09, 10:36 AM

There should be one coming through for WILX for MI - I know they are shutting off analog around 2:00 a.m. on February 17 and switching their digital to channel 10.

wintertime

02-09-09, 11:37 AM

Someone please restrain me.

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=15774865#post15774865

I think I did fairly well with myself two posts down where I responded

I think you did, too, Trip. I don't know how anyone could have looked at your DTR page in the past several days and not seen the big red notice that updates were coming.

And I disagree with that poster that you should have simply taken the page down. That would have confused people who thought they were unable to reach a valid web page. You probably would have been deluged with "What happened to the page???" emails. Leaving it up with the bright red notice was, IMO, a much better idea.

Please know that 99.999% of us appreciate your work and know how hard you've been working on this. Your last posting on Sunday night came after I went to bed, and I'm on the West Coast!

Patty

mathwhiz

02-09-09, 12:25 PM

Just want to double check that you got my email with the updates for OH-MI. Noticed it hasn't been added to your page - no rush to get it there - just want to make sure my email made it.

Trip in VA

02-09-09, 12:28 PM

I got it, I just haven't posted it yet. Woke at 8:45 feeling as tired as I did when I went to bed, left for class at 9:40, class at 10, 11, then got back about 20 minutes ago.

I need to get some lunch and then I'll get on the updates I have sitting in my inbox.

- Trip

Alan Gordon

02-09-09, 12:35 PM

I got it, I just haven't posted it yet.

I'm hoping you got mine last night as well?

~Alan

Trip in VA

02-09-09, 12:45 PM

I'm hoping you got mine last night as well?

~Alan

Yes.

I just added Ohio and Michigan. I added in most (but not all) of the owners, the ones I could think of off the top of my head.

- Trip

ziggy29

02-09-09, 12:48 PM

For some odd reason, stations in Texas seem very quiet about their plans so far. Almost all I know for sure is that the O&Os are likely to stay on for the duration.

Trip in VA

02-09-09, 12:50 PM

I'm hoping you got mine last night as well?

~Alan

Your Florida half is up, Georgia's next...

- Trip

Trip in VA

02-09-09, 12:56 PM

Your Florida half is up, Georgia's next...

- Trip

Should all be there now. I corrected some owner names.

- Trip

Piggie

02-09-09, 01:06 PM

Yeah, I know, it's very very confusing. If the government wanted to avoid confusion, they've done the exact polar opposite of what they wanted.

The way to find filings is to search each one individually, unfortunately. I've been unable to find any alternative.

http://svartifoss2.fcc.gov/prod/cdbs/pubacc/prod/sta_sear.htm

Use WPTO or WPTD as practice. Start on that link, search for Dayton, OH. (Or search by call sign, either way works.) Click on the "Click for Details" link in the WPTD row. Click "view correspondence folder." Now you see two silent notices. The first one says "Notification of Termination of Analog Service." This is the link that you would copy and paste to go with the date on the listing. "Click to View Details" will let you see the actual filing with any notes all the way at the bottom of the filing.

I know of know way to just display a list of those.

Does that help?

- Trip

Well it did on the examples. But I went to the new term page you are building and looked at what appears to be completed findings for:

WKYU

In Application Search I find the 387
In Station Search nothing, yet on the new page someone found something on the FCC site.

WNKY

Both the Application and Station search turn up results I can find.

---
So it's stations like WKYU that leave me at a loss where to find their information.

Trip in VA

02-09-09, 01:13 PM

foxeng

02-09-09, 01:14 PM

POST-TRANSITION DTV TABLE OF ALLOTMENTS, 47 C.F.R. § 73.622(I), SANTA ANA, CALIFORNIA. Changed station KTBN-DT's DTV channel from 23 to 33. Proceeding Terminated. (Dkt No. 08-250, RM-11508). Action by: Chief, Video Division, Media Bureau. Adopted: 02/04/2009 by R&O. (DA No. 09-187). MB DA-09-187A1.doc DA-09-187A1.pdf DA-09-187A1.txt

COMMISSIONER ADELSTEIN TO VISIT LOS ANGELES FOR DTV OUTREACH. News Release. News Media Contact: Katie Yocum 202-418-2300 CMMR DOC-288292A1.doc DOC-288292A1.pdf DOC-288292A1.txt

JimboG

02-09-09, 01:16 PM

Here are the Notices to Terminate Analog Service for the northwestern states of Oregon, Washington, and Idaho. I couldn't find the file numbers for these, but have included the rest of the information.

Are there 387's that also suffice to let the FCC know that a station will shut off analog, or is the "Notification of Termination of Analog Service by February 17, 2009" the only valid form?:confused:

Trip in VA

02-09-09, 01:21 PM

They need to file both the 387 and the NTASF17 (:D) I think. I'd like to list both, if possible. The 387 is supposed to contain more details, but the ones I've seen this time don't. Your listings look short, JimboG, so I'll postpone coyoteaz (I won't finish it before I have to leave) and do yours now instead. I'm going to make a few corrections to your list but probably not until later. I've been abbreviating owner names.

Oh, and Alan, WPAN did kill TV-53 but list it anyway, as I have it listed on there now. WHBR I don't know about.

- Trip

gbynum

02-09-09, 01:30 PM

To get around this, put WKYU% in the box. The % acts as a wildcard and makes all stations WKYU come up in your results.This is likely of no importance, but I've found the % to be the wildcard in MOST *nix apps ... the _ (underscore) is a single place wildcard. DOS came out with the * and ? ... I don't know why Microsoft changed those.

Trip in VA

02-09-09, 01:32 PM

This is likely of no importance, but I've found the % to be the wildcard in MOST *nix apps ... the _ (underscore) is a single place wildcard. DOS came out with the * and ? ... I don't know why Microsoft changed those.

It's Microsoft, I can't say I'm surprised. :D

Alright, I've officially retired the old DTR page and the old Termination list. The Termlist page now points to the DTR. So now the listings can be found here:

http://www.rabbitears.info/dtr.php

As found in my signature.

- Trip

Trip in VA

02-09-09, 01:39 PM

Alright, I need to get out of here. Computer Architecture starts at 2, that runs 75 minutes and then I have Finance at 3:30 for 75 minutes. I'm going to drag my comp with me and attempt to use it during Finance. We shall see whether or not I do use it.

- Trip

Piggie

02-09-09, 01:53 PM

Alright, the thing is that it's really picky, it wants the EXACT call sign. If you put in WKYU and the call sign is actually WKYU-TV, it won't get you anything.

To get around this, put WKYU% in the box. The % acts as a wildcard and makes all stations WKYU come up in your results.

Does that help?

Also, coyoteaz's data is next up. I'm eating first though. Have to leave for class at 1:40, so we'll see how far I get in that amount of time.

- Trip

Ok, now I understand. You guys have been poking around there for a year or more and you are right, something very very easy once you understand, can be miles away until you do. Sorta like freaking programming.. lol.

I just came back here to say I figured it out also. WCJB is WCJB-TV , holy cows (or pigs).

I found this link is very useful. It not only lists DMAs in a drop down, but it was how I found WCJB is WCJB-TV.

http://svartifoss2.fcc.gov/cdbs/cdbs_docs/dtv_search.cfm

Ok, off to try again.

Trip in VA

02-09-09, 04:01 PM

Piggie

02-09-09, 06:05 PM

Finance is boring. I'm sitting in the class with my computer and I'm much more awake than normal. But the connection is sluggish (I prefer wired to wireless anyhow) and I might just vanish. Also, I'm cramped here so I won't be working on the DTR page while I'm sitting here.

- Trip

Still working on my part. It see now why you broke it all up! Even my section just setting up the page much less the filings is a lot, considering I started with a blank page.

Trip in VA

02-09-09, 06:16 PM

Still working on my part. It see now why you broke it all up! Even my section just setting up the page much less the filings is a lot, considering I started with a blank page.

And just think--I did that with the whole country for the original DTR page last February, and then for the hundreds of stations that updated in July, and again in October. I only had to search 387s and not look at each station's Correspondence Folder, but it still wasn't a walk in the park.

If I didn't have school weighing me down, or if the transition date wasn't a week away, I'd have done it all myself over a period of days, but I really don't have that option. I have to have this done ASAP, which is why I sought extra help.

I just added Arkansas to my list (not yet uploaded, only stations are VTN and KLRT/KASN). I'll get coyoteaz's stuff up shortly, right now I'm eating. I might have to stop and do some homework though, and I really don't want to, but...

- Trip

Trip in VA

02-09-09, 06:47 PM

Alright, coyoteaz's list is now up as well.

I'm about to look at some states that I'm missing.

- Trip

Piggie

02-09-09, 06:50 PM

Alright, coyoteaz's list is now up as well.

I'm about to look at some states that I'm missing.

- Trip

I might get done by 3 am or so.....

What is slowing me down is finding all the stations in the DMAs, then putting them in the HTML, adding owners, etc etc. I haven't even started looking up filings yet.

coyoteaz

02-09-09, 06:57 PM

The old DTR list contains a mostly-accurate list of all stations in a market, and the Listings page on RabbitEars has the ownership information.

I'll take Wyoming and Puerto Rico since it doesn't look like anyone else has them.

Trip in VA

02-09-09, 07:11 PM

I might get done by 3 am or so.....

What is slowing me down is finding all the stations in the DMAs, then putting them in the HTML, adding owners, etc etc. I haven't even started looking up filings yet.

I say to just search and add as you need them. You don't have to worry about pre-populating the lists. If it's too much, then drop south Florida and focus on your local area.

The old DTR list contains a mostly-accurate list of all stations in a market, and the Listings page on RabbitEars has the ownership information.

I'll take Wyoming and Puerto Rico since it doesn't look like anyone else has them.

Oops, I just finished Wyoming, I hadn't checked here. :o

Montana is still fee though. :D

Full list of missing states: Montana, N Dakota, S Dakota, Montana, Missouri (except Springfield), Minnesota, Louisiana, Kansas (except Topeka), Iowa. You just claimed Puerto Rico. I also have an e-mail from Iowegian3 for Colorado that I need to integrate...

- Trip

Trip in VA

02-09-09, 07:27 PM

Colorado is up. Iowegian3 only sent me updated 387s but didn't find the Analog Termination notices. I got them.

- Trip

NashDigie

02-09-09, 07:38 PM

I found this on the local thread. It is about WNPT PBS analog 8. The link to the story is below.

http://npt08.wordpress.com/2009/02/...transmitter/ (http://npt08.wordpress.com/2009/02/06/npt-will-wait-until-june-to-turn-off-analog-transmitter/)

Tennessee 
 
Nashville 
WNPT DT PBS 08 46 08 <a href="http://npt08.wordpress.com/2009/02/06/npt-will-wait-until-june-to-turn-off-analog-transmitter/">06/12/09</a> <a href="">200902xxxxx</a> N ?

iowegian3

02-09-09, 07:43 PM

Colorado is up. Iowegian3 only sent me updated 387s but didn't find the Analog Termination notices. I got them.

- Trip

oops...where to find analog termination notices?

Trip in VA

02-09-09, 07:47 PM

oops...where to find analog termination notices?

http://svartifoss2.fcc.gov/prod/cdbs/pubacc/prod/sta_sear.htm

Use that form. No date required. Search either by the city of license, by the state, or by call sign with a % after it. Click for details, then View Correspondence Folder. Station which is terminating has a "Notification of Termination of Analog Service." Copy and paste that link to go with the date, then open it up and there's a line on the gray form about nightlight service.

If that is still unclear, let me know and I'll help you out. :)

- Trip

Nitewatchman

02-09-09, 07:57 PM

Looks like Apps for STA's are starting to roll in from stations who want to start using their post-transition channel for DTV(for those changing channels/etc) after shutting their analog down Feb 17 ... Just poked a bit through a couple of them involving a couple of W VA stations ...

Interestingly perhaps, FCC granted this one today for WJW (for post-transition operation on 8) which was filed 2/3, but, If I'm thinking about it right, the info presented in the attached exhibit seems like it would result in it "applying" to the new "rules" on this from the Thursday Public notice as well :

http://fjallfoss.fcc.gov/cgi-bin/ws.exe/prod/cdbs/forms/prod/cdbsmenu.hts?context=25&appn=101293395&formid=911&fac_num=73150

A LOT of other STA's granted today as well, but I didn't pick through many of them yet to see how many are relevant to this ...

Inundated

02-09-09, 08:11 PM

Interestingly perhaps, FCC granted this one today for WJW (for post-transition operation on 8) which was filed 2/3, but, If I'm thinking about it right, the info presented in the attached exhibit seems like it would result in it "applying" to the new "rules" on this from the Thursday Public notice as well :

The form is the old one, that doesn't specifically have a February 17, 2009 date as an option in the reasons section.

Besides, WJW has already announced locally that they're staying on through June 12 now. So, who knows what's going on here?

Inundated

02-09-09, 08:12 PM

Oh, I'm hearing through a very good source that the FCC is apparently coming out with their own list of early-transition stations...supposedly sometime tomorrow.

Trip in VA

02-09-09, 08:13 PM

Oh, I'm hearing through a very good source that the FCC is apparently coming out with their own list of early-transition stations...supposedly sometime tomorrow.

Grrrr.

- Trip

daavery

02-09-09, 08:14 PM

any chance of adding DTV final STA status/dates ? to the ATR/DTR page

Inundated

02-09-09, 08:17 PM

Grrrr.

It won't be as good or detailed as yours, Trip!

:D

I'm upset that the FCC didn't swoop down to UVa and hire you.

It's second hand info at this point, as far as that reported list tomorrow. I'll give you my source in PM, if you want...

Trip in VA

02-09-09, 08:17 PM

any chance of adding DTV final STA status/dates ? to the ATR/DTR page

Could you elaborate on what you mean?

- Trip

Trip in VA

02-09-09, 08:27 PM

It won't be as good or detailed as yours, Trip!

:D

:D Thanks. It'll probably be finished before mine though...

I'm upset that the FCC didn't swoop down to UVa and hire you.

Me too. I would love to just go and work up there.

It's second hand info at this point, as far as that reported list tomorrow. I'll give you my source in PM, if you want...

You don't have to, I am just annoyed that the FCC now feels a need to generate the list when they haven't made one up until this point.

- Trip

Inundated

02-09-09, 08:38 PM

Cox's WTOV/9 Steubenville OH says it's filed for a 2/17 transition today:

http://www.wtov9.com/news/18672994/detail.html

Late Monday WTOV9 filed a request to go all digital on the original date of Feb. 17.

If approved, the switch from analog to all digital will happen even if the nationwide date is moved until June. WTOV9 is able to do this because of a provision in the bill that allows stations to stay with the original date if they chose.

By making the switch to all digital on Feb. 17, more viewers will be able to view WTOV9.

Viewers who don't have cable or a digital tuner in their televisions need to get a digital converter box before next Tuesday.

I'll double check on WTRF/7 Wheeling WV, the only other station in the market, but I'm pretty sure owner WVMH is still solid on going on the 17th.

Inundated

02-09-09, 08:41 PM

A Google News search on "digital analog TV" is turning up a bunch of these from local stations, though there is some other stuff mixed in.

justalurker

02-09-09, 08:45 PM

You don't have to, I am just annoyed that the FCC now feels a need to generate the list when they haven't made one up until this point.They have not needed to.

As far as the FCC was concerned, all analog TV stations were ceasing February 17th, if not before. Until S.352 went to the White House on February 4th the answer was simple: by February 17th.

Once Nightlight was passed stations were given until February 10th to opt in. The Media Bureau is (or was) expected to make a list of those stations. Now it is pretty obvious that the FCC needs to know what stations are planning on going on February 17th vs "the last date that the can be on the air" June 12th.

Now they need a list. :)

It is interesting to see that the February 17th shutdown STA still has a place to "nightlight" ... so I suppose stations could do both.

Trip in VA

02-09-09, 08:47 PM

I remember the FCC saying that the 387s were going to be used to generate a public list so that people would be able to find out what their local stations would be doing about the digital transition. I have not seen such a list.

- Trip

Trip in VA

02-09-09, 08:47 PM

A Google News search on "digital analog TV" is turning up a bunch of these from local stations, though there is some other stuff mixed in.

At this point, I think the best policy is to wait and see who filed today with the FCC, then go back and fill in the blanks from station websites and communications. That's how I'll be doing it.

- Trip

Inundated

02-09-09, 08:50 PM

They have not needed to.

As far as the FCC was concerned, all analog TV stations were ceasing February 17th, if not before.

They should have put up a list as soon as stations started going off early in analog, for whatever reason (transmitter outage/no analog repair, needed early construction, etc.).

WNEO/45 and WMFD/68 in Northern Ohio would have been on that list. WMFD actually went off back in June!

coyoteaz

02-09-09, 08:53 PM

WY and PR done, I'll just send them all to you when I finish tonight's filings, Trip.
WY: KBEO and KFNR already gone; KLWY, KTWO, KGWC, KFNB, KGWL, KFNE, KGWR goiing by 2/17
PR: WORO notified that they are killing analog on 2/17 and filed an STA to commence post-transition digital on 2/18

Scooper

02-09-09, 09:02 PM

Trip - I just emailed you what I have - (not much)

Trip in VA

02-09-09, 09:04 PM

Trip - I just emailed you what I have - (not much)

I got it. Are the ones without 387s those with just analog termination notices?

- Trip

Scooper

02-09-09, 09:05 PM

I got it. Are the ones without 387s those with just analog termination notices?

- Trip

Exactly - it means there was no 20090206 or later 387

joblo

02-09-09, 09:06 PM

Oh, I'm hearing through a very good source that the FCC is apparently coming out with their own list of early-transition stations...supposedly sometime tomorrow.
Glad to hear it. That's a stronger commitment than I got out of them in email last week.

Trip in VA

02-09-09, 09:16 PM

Exactly - it means there was no 20090206 or later 387

I'll have to format it in a little bit, but that's good. Saved me some work! :D

And no worries on it being "late" or anything, I know people who aren't me have lives. :D

- Trip

Inundated

02-09-09, 09:21 PM

Glad to hear it. That's a stronger commitment than I got out of them in email last week.

Between now and then, they appear to have been overwhelmed with requests from newspaper and trade reporters!

Nitewatchman

02-09-09, 09:24 PM

The form is the old one, that doesn't specifically have a February 17, 2009 date as an option in the reasons section.

Besides, WJW has already announced locally that they're staying on through June 12 now. So, who knows what's going on here?

Yes, but they specifically address that they're filing the STA for Feb 17 for shut off of the analog/bringing the digital up on 8 in the text of the exhibit attached to the app. (click on the link to the exhibit at bottom of app).

And, I wasn't aware of how their plans had changed(but figured they might have) Since a week ago vs. what they said in the exhibit attached to the app(Dated 2/3/2009) - --

My main point was, I just thought it interesting FCC granted that STA Today, After the new rules/procedures in the notice issued by FCC Thursday, and given what it involved and the procedures involved in this situation pertinent to the new notice issued thursday.

Also, "usually", I think a week is a pretty quick turnaround for that sort of thing - regarding the possible need for interference studies(and/or the need for technical exhibits/engineering studies/etc) and the like - Yeah, one might think they wouldn't need to do all that since the analog is on 8, but the D/U ratios are different for say, DTV to DTV interference regarding protection of other stations' service areas.

And, regardless of how their plans have changed since that filing, If I'm thinking about it right(I may not be), I think the STA as they asked for it(read the text in the exhibit attached to the app for that info) *could* apply and work if they had still wanted to shut down analog feb 17(and as long as they were to file the Notice and the updated DTR), and fire up the Digital on 8 Feb 18 ....