Looks like KUCW (CW in Salt Lake City market) has changed its mind on going 2/17...

http://www.sltrib.com/news/ci_11665656


KUCW Channel 30, the only Utah television station still planning to shut off its analog signal on the original Feb. 17 deadline, announced Monday it will also extend its cutoff to June 12.

I'm really tired. I want to go to bed but I want to stay up for the filings for Virginia at least. I'm going to hate tomorrow and Wednesday so much.

- Trip

San Diego DTV Stations Opt for a February Transition
Written by Gary Stigall
Monday, 09 February 2009
[Updated February 9, 2009, 5 PM] Some San Diego broadcasters said they would flash to digital on the February 17 date in spite of the law that moves the transition date to June 12. KFMB, KGTV, KSWB, and XETV all now say they will turn off their analog transmitters at midnight on the 17th. KPBS Director of Engineering Leon Messenie says that his station will leave the analog channel 15 transmitter on through their March pledge drive. KNSD and KUSI now say they will wait until June 12 to drop their analog service. The bill passed by Congress does not mandate a June analog shutdown, but would give broadcasters that option, as well as fund an extended converter box discount coupon program. All network owned and operated stations will keep their analog transmitters on until June. KNSD is an NBC O&O station.

The news from XETV came late February 9, when Televisa corporate managers decided to shutdown the analog channel 6. At the same time, the company will put Televisa's Canal 5 service on digital 23 as a subchannel of XETV-DT. Channel 6 will be the first Mexican TV station to cease analog transmissions. At the same time, engineers are installing redundant digital TV transmitters and antennas at the Tijuana facility.

Earlier this week, Congress passed the delay bill and sent it to the president. Democrats wanted the delay to give converter box coupons to low income constituents while Republicans favored giving spectrum to public safety and for finding other ways to subsidize converters.

Broadcasters have their own pressures to make the transistion now. Locally, KFMB-TV wants to abandon their low power channel 7 DTV temporary transmission and cut to a channel 8 full power DTV service. KUSI, KSWB, KGTV, KPBS, and KNSD each spend thousands monthly on electrical bills keeping their older analog transmitters on-the-air for the 7% or less of the San Diego County viewers currently watching. With ad revenues down sharply this year, electrical utility expenses bear heavily on stations with multiple high power transmitters.

Meanwhile, Entravision stations are attempting to convert to DTV. XHDTV Tecate is due to come on line soon on channel 47. XHAS Tijuana, "T33" is working on signing on channel 34 DTV. KBNT has an application pending for a digital service on channel 14. The FCC signaled that it might approve that application for a low power service after stating in a recent ruling for LA County emergency services on channel 15 that its use in Los Angeles did not preclude reusing the channel for low power TV in San Diego. Channel 14 is similarly used for land mobile in the LA basin.
http://www.sbe36.org/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=278&Itemid=1

Re: XETV.

That was unexpected.

- Trip

Trip, also just emailed Florida to you. Found more than I thought I would find.

Fort Myers like Gainesville if the FCC allows it will end up with only a PBS and FOX on the air.

I found 2 nightlights. I am sure I heard WESH would night light but could not find anything on them about it.

Have fun with all this stuff.

Has anything popped up yet?

~Alan

Just found an interesting "flaw" in the Notification of Termination of Analog Service by February 17, 2009 form - there is no date to put in when you will terminate. WILX's form appeared and I know they are terminating basically at the end of the day on 2/16 (2:00 am or so on 2/17) but the form just says "by 2/17". So if they are going before 2/17 the details must be in the 387.

This also means today's forms are starting to show up. Since no regular apps have appeared yet - seems like there are a good number of these forms being filed.

Trip, also just emailed Florida to you. Found more than I thought I would find.

Fort Myers like Gainesville if the FCC allows it will end up with only a PBS and FOX on the air.

I found 2 nightlights. I am sure I heard WESH would night light but could not find anything on them about it.

Have fun with all this stuff.

Thanks, looks good. :)

You didn't have to spend so much time on it. I feel bad now.

Anyway, yesterday's filings are starting to come in though I haven't seen any that are relevant yet.

- Trip

WBOC is up. They're a-comin'!

- Trip

They need faster servers to get these into the system! :)

Re: XETV.

That was unexpected.

- Trip

Very unexpected, but then perhaps they aren't making as much money being a CW affiliate now. Still, is Mexico allowing early analog shut-downs or is it just because it's really a US station with a tower on the other side of the border?

KSFV-CA must be pleased, well until they convert to digital, though maybe they will elect not to now.

Still, I think I will wait to see it to believe it.

Very unexpected, but then perhaps they aren't making as much money being a CW affiliate now. Still, is Mexico allowing early analog shut-downs or is it just because it's really a US station with a tower on the other side of the border?

KSFV-CA must be pleased, well until they convert to digital, though maybe they will elect not to now.

Still, I think I will wait to see it to believe it.

If the transmitter is in Mexico, its Mexican rules they abide by...not the FCC.
Its the location of the transmitter that determines who sets the rules....
and a X callsign means Mexico!!! (Hence why X91 is a commercial station in the "US non comm educational band"...the transmitter is in Mexico and thus can be a commercial station...The only one down there in the SanDiego market)

I've found a handful so far. I'll see how late it is when all the forms are processed - can't stay up too late. I'll send what I have completed before I go to bed and finish updating the rest of MI/OH tomorrow when I can and get it to you.

Hope analog-only folks in Savannah, GA like NBC and CBS, because they're out of luck on the rest of the stations! ;)

~Alan

Yeah, I have to be up early, I don't think I'm going to sit here and do them tonight. I'll watch for them to come in, but that's about it. I need sleep.

I see Sinclair, Gray, and WVMH at the very least.

- Trip

Georgia Public Television will be digital only this month it appears.

~Alan

Add Cox and Media-General, the stations they're cutting are showing up. (WHIO, WYCW)

- Trip

Scranton to be all-digital except for WQPX, so far.

I think this is it. What you see is what you get. Go nuts.

- Trip

It looks like the dated filings are showing up - so all the Term notices should be in the system. I'll do one last check of all mine and then update 387's tomorrow.

It's confirmed - Dayton, OH will be completely digital on 2/18 (with the exception of night light) as if the Congress didn't try to mess anything up :)

MI/OH update complete for tonight - all term forms that have been filed are pulled in - I'll get the 387's tomorrow - file emailed.

Yes, I found WYCW a few minutes ago, along with WLOS and WMYA. I think WLOS may be the biggest station serving SC that is shutting off analog early, except for the Charlotte stations.

I still haven't found any filings from the major Charlotte stations, even though it was reported in the press that at least some of them were going to shut off analog.

I just sent Trip my report for South Georgia and the Florida panhandle.

I have to finish up some work I brought home before I can go to bed, so Alabama will have to wait. SORRY!! :o

~Alan

This is for my own reference:

NJ: WMGM, WFME
VA: WTVZ, WRLH, WCAV, WHSV
MD: WBFF, WBOC, WNUV, WJAL
WV: WVVA, WVNS, WTRF, WBOY, WVAH, WTAP, WSAZ, WOWK, WCHS
PA: WYOU, WWCP, WSEE, WQMY, WPMY, WPMT**, WPGH, WNEP, WLYH, WITF, WBRE, WATM
NY: WYDC, WXXA, WWNY, WUTV, WUHF, WSYT, WPTZ, WNYS, WKTV, WIVT, WBNG
VT: WVNY, WNNE, WETK, WCAX
NH: WNEU, WLED, WENH, WEKW
ME: WGME, WVII
MA: WWLP, WMFP, WLNE
KY: WYMT, WTVQ, WDKA, WBKI
NC: WYCW, WXLV, WTVI, WRDC, WRAY, WMYV, WLOS, WLFL, WAXN
IN: WSJV, WPTA, WNDU, WISE, WFWA, WCLJ
IL: WYZZ, WUSI, WTVO, WRSP, WREX, WRBU, WQRF, WMBD, WIFR, WICS, WICD, WGEM, WEIU, WEEK, WCCU, WBUI, WAND
WI: WYOW, WXOW, WVTV, WVCY, WSAW, WQOW, WMTV, WMSN, WLAX, WKOW, WKBT, WJFW, WIWB, WISC, WFXS, WEUX, WEAU, WCGV, WBUW, WAOW, KBJR
TN: WZTV, WUXP, WTCI, WNAB, WLMT
MS: WXXV, WTOK, WRBJ, WNTZ, WMDN, WGBC, WABG
AR: KTVE, KTEJ, KLRT, KARK
WY: KWYP, KPTW
CO: KKCO, KBDI
MN: WUCW, KXLT, KWCM, KTTC, KSMN, KAWE, KAWB

Note to self, THIS IS HELPFUL: http://www.kentucky.com/181/story/689551.html
SO IS THIS: http://www.dailypress.com/news/dp-local_dtv_0210feb10,0,6018828.story
http://www.sbe36.org/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=278&Itemid=1
http://iowadigitaltv.blogspot.com/2009/02/what-about-that-dtv-delay.html

EDIT: 387's are still coming in.

I left Alabama for you, Alan, when you get to it. =)

Now, a shower and bed.

- Trip

OK, how the Hell can the FCC write rules pertaining to the new Jun 12 DTV shutdown date and telling stations they needed to file by today if they plan to shut down on the 17th, when the law hasn't even been signed yet.

Aren't they illegally making rules based on a law that isn't law?

This is for my own reference:

WI: WYOW, WXOW, WVTV, WVCY, WSAW, WQOW, WMTV, WMSN, WLAX, WKOW, WKBW, WJFW, WIWB, WISC, WFXS, WEUX, WEAU, WCGV, WBUW, WAOW, KBJR

You have my interest peaked. What kind of reference? Why are these stations listed? They going to pull the plug early? WKOW, WMTV and WISC have publically said they are.

I left Alabama for you, Alan, when you get to it. =)

Probably sometime tomorrow afternoon.

BTW, on the list I sent you for Florida, I have "02/17/09" on there twice. I saw it on your site earlier today from my list last night, but I forgot to correct it before I sent you the new list.... so you might want to delete the "02/17/09" that does not have a link associated to it.

~Alan

You have my interest peaked. What kind of reference? Why are these stations listed? They going to pull the plug early? WKOW, WMTV and WISC have publically said they are.

The Madison thread holds your answer. ;)

- Trip

OK, how the Hell can the FCC write rules pertaining to the new Jun 12 DTV shutdown date and telling stations they needed to file by today if they plan to shut down on the 17th, when the law hasn't even been signed yet.

Aren't they illegally making rules based on a law that isn't law?

Interpret it like this: They're asking stations, if you WERE given a choice, would you shut off on February 17? Legally-binding choice, of course. If the law doesn't change, all have to sign off anyway. If not, then only the ones that committed have to.

- Trip

It looks like the dated filings are showing up - so all the Term notices should be in the system. I'll do one last check of all mine and then update 387's tomorrow.

Me too, let the system update all night, so when I look tomorrow it will be as accurate in one look as possible.

In my research for Trip in FL, the best comment was from WEDU. Cut to the chase, no bs left behind.

"Description: REASON FOR SUSPENSION

LICENSEE PLANS TO TERMINATE ANALOG OPERATIONS ON FEBRUARY 17, 2009, EVEN IF THE TRANSITION DEADLINE IS EXTENDED. TERMINATION ON THAT DATE HAS BEEN CAREFULLY PLANNED TO COMPLY WITH CURRENT LEGISLATIVE REQUIREMENTS. IT WILL AVOID VIEWER CONFUSION THAT WOULD ARISE IN LIGHT OF THE LICENSEE'S EXTENSIVE AND EFFECTIVE DTV EDUCATION EFFORTS TO DATE IN A MARKET WITH RELATIVELY LITTLE OVER-THE-AIR RECEPTION, ASSURE A SMOOTH TECHNICAL TRANSITION TO DIGITAL-ONLY SERVICE, AND AVOID A FINANCIAL CRISIS IN LIGHT OF THE FACT THAT NO FUNDS HAVE BEEN BUDGETED FOR SUCH ANALOG OPERATION AFTER FEBRUARY 17, 2009. OUR EXPENDITURES FOR THE DTV TRANSITION HAVE BEEN PARTICULARLY LARGE BECAUSE WE WERE ASSIGNED AN OUT-OF-CORE TRANSITIONAL CHANNEL AND THEREFORE HAVE INCURRED THE COST OF TWO DTV BUILD-OUTS. IN ADDITION, OUR ANALOG TRANSMITTER, AIR CONDITIONING UNIT, AND EMERGENCY GENERATOR ARE ALL IN POOR CONDITION, AND NO PLANS HAVE BEEN MADE TO REFURBISH OR REPLACE THEM IN VIEW OF BUDGETARY PRESSURES AND THE IMMINENT END OF ANALOG TELEVISION. THAT EQUIPMENT IS UNLIKELY TO BE SERVICEABLE, EVEN AT REDUCED POWER, FOR VERY LONG BEYOND FEBRUARY 17, 2009."

Isn't WKBW in NY, not WI?

It's confirmed - Dayton, OH will be completely digital on 2/18

I hope so ... "Technically" though - As it pertians to Neilsen DMA, I think WKOI(TBN) is a Dayton Market station(Their COL=Richmond, IN, I think that's in Dayton DMA), even though they actually transmit from "within" Cincinnati DMA.... and They didn't file a Feb 17 Notice form ....

The Dayton Market might be an interesting one to follow regarding FCC's comments on whether it serves the "public interest" for most or all of stations in a market to shut down, and given 4 of them said they would Nightlight .... Of course, it's interesting to me in any case, as the Dayton market stations make up a little less than 1/2 of my local stations ;)

Also going to be interesting to see if WBDT is going to try for their post-transition 26 allocation, or stay on 18 until June 13, as I don't see a DTR or STA filing from them yet (update: Since the 387's are still coming in, I might stay up a bit later on that one) .... And interesting to see if WPTD "sticks" with wanting 16 as they said in their DTR, and files STA and for "special permission" ...

__________________

Anyway, thanks to Trip, and Mathwhiz specifically for the OH info here, and everyone else who worked on this !

I would have been happy to help, but as Trip noted earlier, I'm on Dial-up, and although I usually get a good connection(and loading these pages and forms from FCC site really works relatively quickly -- a few seconds to load a 387 for example), I can't allways count on it .... sometimes in the wee hours, there can be some problems with that for some odd reason ...

Isn't WKBW in NY, not WI?

WKBW? Where do you see that? :p

I typoed WKBT. All fixed.

- Trip

This is likely of no importance, but I've found the % to be the wildcard in MOST *nix apps ... the _ (underscore) is a single place wildcard. DOS came out with the * and ? ... I don't know why Microsoft changed those.

Wildcards in Unix are only wildcards when dealing with a shell. Programs can pretty much write whatever character they want, but the better programmers avoid the use of shell special characters.

The % is not a wildcard. It is used as part of job control, i.e., %1 references the first job placed into the background.

The * is a multicharacter wildcard and the ? is a single character wildcard.

The underscore is not a wildcard of any sort. It is just a character. I personally use it where most would use a space, because a space is whitespace in unix.

There are other special characters, but only two character wildcards (* and ?)

The deadline has passed for stations to notify the FCC that they will be shutting down their analog transmitter on February 17, so I just searched the files for all of the stations in the San Francisco Bay Area and found the following:

Stations signing off their analog transmitter on February 17 are:
KOFY 20 San Francisco
KICU 36 San Jose
KCNS 38 San Francisco
KION 46 Monterey

There are no stations in the Sacramento-Stockton market.

There was a notice that KRON digital would be operating at half power on channel 57 beginning January 5th so that they could modify half of their transmitter for channel 38. At the transition they will come up on channel 38 at half power, then modify the other half of their transmitter and return to full power on channel 38 at a later date.

There was another notice that KTNC would be turning off their channel 63 digital transmitter on January 12, so that they could install their new transmitter and antenna for channel 14. They said they would be ready to go on with the new facility on February 18. (With the transition delay and KDTV analog staying on the air until 6/12, it looks like KTNC will not have a digital signal on the air for four more months now.)

As of this time, President Obama has still not signed the DTV Delay bill. You can check the status of the bill at:
http://thomas.loc.gov/cgi-bin/bdquery/z?d111:S352:

(Just a thought: Can you imagine the craziness that will occur if the president vetoes the bill?)

Larry
SF

There was a notice that KRON digital would be operating at half power on channel 57 beginning January 5th so that they could modify half of their transmitter for channel 38.
Larry
SF

WKMG in Orlando (probably many others) is stuck at half power now. They took down half their CH58 transmitter to modify it for 26.

Well now they are stuck running their analog on 6, and half power on digital.

Why are these stations listed? They going to pull the plug early?Yes

IN: WSJV, WPTA, WNDU, WISE, WFWA, WCLJ+WSBT OFF 17th http://fjallfoss.fcc.gov/cgi-bin/ws.exe/prod/cdbs/forms/prod/prefill_and_display.pl?Application_id=1294370&Form_id=910&Facility_id=73983

+WIPB OFF 17th http://fjallfoss.fcc.gov/cgi-bin/ws.exe/prod/cdbs/forms/prod/prefill_and_display.pl?Application_id=1294364&Form_id=910&Facility_id=3646

+WXIN 50% reduction http://fjallfoss.fcc.gov/cgi-bin/ws.exe/prod/cdbs/forms/prod/prefill_and_display.pl?Application_id=1294980&Form_id=910&Facility_id=146

XETV-TV is shutting off analog CH. 6 after 2.17.09. So it means that CH. 23 will be their new home. CH. 23 has 2 channels. 6.1 is XETV-DT and 6.2 is XHBJ which airs Televisa Canal 5 (XHGC) programming. XHBJ will get a permanent HD digital home on CH. 44 which has been granted by the FCC. XHDTV OTA CH. 49, Cable 13 will keep their analog after 2.17.09. XHDTV is in the process of going digital which means MyNetwork TV in HD. Syndicated and MNTV programming will be in HD coming out of Cerro Bola, Tecate, BCN. Hope this helps.

+WSBT OFF 17th http://fjallfoss.fcc.gov/cgi-bin/ws.exe/prod/cdbs/forms/prod/prefill_and_display.pl?Application_id=1294370&Form_id=910&Facility_id=73983

+WIPB OFF 17th http://fjallfoss.fcc.gov/cgi-bin/ws.exe/prod/cdbs/forms/prod/prefill_and_display.pl?Application_id=1294364&Form_id=910&Facility_id=3646

+WXIN 50% reduction http://fjallfoss.fcc.gov/cgi-bin/ws.exe/prod/cdbs/forms/prod/prefill_and_display.pl?Application_id=1294980&Form_id=910&Facility_id=146
Trip's lists above seem to only include stations that filed on the 9th.

They are also missing WVIR in VA and WMBC in NJ, e.g.

Did you read that WXIN exhibit? They claim they should be entitled to the same notification waiver as if they were terminating service, yet at the same time they claim they don't need to air the required viewer notices
because the reduction in coverage is insignificant. I guess they figured if the FCC could make it up as they go along, they could, too. :rolleyes:

. . .

Here's a list for OK that includes last week and the 9th:

OK: KAUT KDOR KETA KGEB KMYT KOCB KOED KOET KOKH KOTV KQCW KRSC KSWO KTUZ KWET KWHB KWTV

CO: KKCO, KBDI
Interesting there's been no filing from KWGN. They've been running crawls saying they will terminate analog on the 17th, despite the June 12 national date. Their web site still says that:

http://www.kwgn.com/pages/dtv_transition

Aren't they illegally making rules based on a law that isn't law?No. There is no prohibition against agencies requiring organizations declare their intentions regarding what they will do if a certain bill becomes law, prior to that law becoming law, as long as they're not making people do anything -- and they're not: Stations can choose not to file, and then once the bill is signed, they have lost their opportunity. That is also okay. There is no prohibition specifically about regulations being based on past actions. Indeed, think about it: Channel UHF62 didn't do anything wrong, did they, but they're being "punished" (forced to move to a new frequency) just because the FCC is auctioning off the frequency they are using now, while Channel VHF7 is allowed to keep their frequency. That's perfectly permissible.

This is not criminal law, or the application of financial sanctions, where the agency would not be allowed to punish people for doing something that was not prohibited at the time.

Done with my states (AZ, NM, OK, TX, PR, WY). Trip YGM.
One interesting entry in AZ, KTAZ, NBC/Telemundo O&O will be shutting off analog to flash cut to digital (no pre-transition allocation).
NM: Hearst filed "oops, just kidding" notifications for their stations saying they will remain till the end of the transition. KOBF seems to have submitted the wrong form, but wants to turn off on 2/17.
OK: 2/3 of the analogs in the state are going off, probably thanks to a big push by OETA. The CBS, CW, and MNT affiliates in both markets are killing analog, as is Fox OKC.
TX: Victoria, San Angelo, and Waco are all going 100% digital. Bryan, Sherman, Lubbock, and Wichita Falls will have only 1 analog in each. KTAQ is the only DFW station going off. None in Houston. The biggest surprise is CBS affiliate KEYE in Austin.
WY: only 4 analog stations will be on the air in the entire state after 2/17.

XHBJ will get a permanent HD digital home on CH. 44 which has been granted by the FCC.

You mean the Mexican government. The FCC has no jurisdiction over XHBJ, nor XETV except for the cross border microwave system from the US based studios to the Mexican based transmitters. Everything else they do is based on Mexican television rules, not US.

KOAT-TV, wants to keep the analog open till till 6-12-09 for the time being here in the Albuquerque TV market.

http://fjallfoss.fcc.gov/prod/cdbs/forms/prod/getattachment_exh.cgi?exhibit_id=728553

More news update later, unless you guy's hop in for more latest news since it's getting late for me for any FCC news updates.:)

QRT for now......

2-10-09

KOAT-TV, wants to keep the analog open till till 6-12-09 for the time being here in the Albuquerque TV market.

http://fjallfoss.fcc.gov/prod/cdbs/forms/prod/getattachment_exh.cgi?exhibit_id=728553

More news update later, unless you guy's hop in for more latest news since it's getting late for me for any FCC news updates.:)

QRT for now......

2-10-09
Already noted, KOAT is in the "oops, just kidding" group of Hearst stations.

Trip's lists above seem to only include stations that filed on the 9th.

They are also missing WVIR in VA and WMBC in NJ, e.g.

Bingo. They're things I need to add to what are already in my listings.

Did you read that WXIN exhibit? They claim they should be entitled to the same notification waiver as if they were terminating service, yet at the same time they claim they don't need to air the required viewer notices
because the reduction in coverage is insignificant. I guess they figured if the FCC could make it up as they go along, they could, too. :rolleyes:

I rather like it. I hope it flies.

Here's a list for OK that includes last week and the 9th:

OK: KAUT KDOR KETA KGEB KMYT KOCB KOED KOET KOKH KOTV KQCW KRSC KSWO KTUZ KWET KWHB KWTV

Thanks, though coyoteaz sent me a list already. :D

Done with my states (AZ, NM, OK, TX, PR, WY). Trip YGM.

Thanks, got it. :)

You mean the Mexican government. The FCC has no jurisdiction over XHBJ, nor XETV except for the cross border microwave system from the US based studios to the Mexican based transmitters. Everything else they do is based on Mexican television rules, not US.

I think he's referring to the international coordination part of things, in which case the FCC did have to sign off on the allocations.

- Trip

I think he's referring to the international coordination part of things, in which case the FCC did have to sign off on the allocations.

The allocations yes, but to cease broadcasting doesn't take international coordination except a notification from the authorizing country to any bordering countries that the allocation is now open, not permission from bordering countries.

I must comment, who is the person who invented 8:30 quizzes? I would like to see that person suffer.

- Trip

I must comment, who is the person who invented 8:30 quizzes? I would like to see that person suffer.

- Trip

Probably the same person who thought up the delay.

That person should suffer, a lot!

Probably the same person who thought up the delay.

That person should suffer, a lot!

:D

Well, off to my quiz. Back around 9:30.

- Trip

Hopefully the quiz is easier to understand than the DTV mess!

Wildcards in Unix are only wildcards when dealing with a shell. Programs can pretty much write whatever character they want, but the better programmers avoid the use of shell special characters.

The % is not a wildcard. It is used as part of job control, i.e., %1 references the first job placed into the background.

As far as as a Unix shell is concerned, that is. (At least, the shells that I'm acquainted with.)

The SQL database query language does use '%' as a multi-character wildcard when searching. It also uses '_' as a single-character wildcard. I use them both in MySQL queries.

I don't think anyone here has the patience to listen to wildcard trivia right now. How about talking about the VMS legacy of DOS? Take it to Slashdot :)

Quietly lurking and waiting ... thanks guys for your efforts!

Hopefully the quiz is easier to understand than the DTV mess!

Not really. Differential equations hates me. At least the DTV stuff is enjoyable.

That said, I managed to guess the integrating factor on the first one (two question quiz), so that made my life easier. I was able to finish early, though I'm not at all confident I did well on anything but the guessing.

I'll figure it out.

Anyway, I'm about to load up the data I was sent. I'll figure out what to do after that.

- Trip

Probably the same person who thought up the delay.

That person should suffer, a lot!

I believe the name you are looking for is Barack H. Obama. :D

Not really. Differential equations hates me. At least the DTV stuff is enjoyable.

That said, I managed to guess the integrating factor on the first one (two question quiz), so that made my life easier. I was able to finish early, though I'm not at all confident I did well on anything but the guessing.

I'll figure it out.

Anyway, I'm about to load up the data I was sent. I'll figure out what to do after that.

- Trip
When I was a sophomore in college, I was taking Diff Eq (Sr Math course)...it was a breeze.....I had problems proving HOW to do it (starting with a integration of F from 1 to infinity or something like that! putting "And then a miracle happened" toward the end of the solution got a chickle but a X from the professor!).....but once I got into the real diff eqs, it was a snap.....only class I scored an A in that semester....(but then I was in advanced math since jr high school)

When I was a sophomore in college, I was taking Diff Eq (Sr Math course)...it was a breeze.....I had problems proving HOW to do it (starting with a integration of F from 1 to infinity or something like that! putting "And then a miracle happened" toward the end of the solution got a chickle but a X from the professor!).....but once I got into the real diff eqs, it was a snap.....only class I scored an A in that semester....(but then I was in advanced math since jr high school)

I aced my last Calc final (top scorer) in high school and was always ahead until I got here. Something changed and I don't know what, but I've been having a ton of trouble with math in general it since I got to UVA. I even retook the Calc I took in high school during my first semester and only got a C+!

Anyway, coyoteaz's updates are now up. Next up, Alan's stuff.

- Trip

Alan's stuff is up. Not sure what to do next. I'm really feeling that 4 hours of sleep right about now.

- Trip

Just sent in another update with 387's added. I won't be updating again until there are more updates.

Just sent in another update with 387's added. I won't be updating again until there are more updates.

Got it, thanks. =)

I'll work on integrating it right now, stand by...

- Trip

Got it, thanks. =)

I'll work on integrating it right now, stand by...

- Trip

Done.

- Trip

I'm sorry, but I crashed last night while waiting for the updates to post after driving back from the LA FCC DTV Outreach meeting. There were less than 10 viewers at the meeting, which was a major disappointment and Commissioner Adelstein could not attend, but more on that later in the LA thread.

I just went through UT and there are no changes. Only KCSG has filed to end on or before 2/17. As noted, KUCW, the only other station expected to go on 2/17 has agreed to delay until 6/12.

Edit: For CT, WHPX and WUVN filed to end analog by 2/17, along with WEDW (as expected), but we don't currently have that with Hartford.

I'm sorry, but I crashed last night while waiting for the updates to post after driving back from the LA FCC DTV Outreach meeting. There were less than 10 viewers at the meeting, which was a major disappointment and Commissioner Adelstein could not attend, but more on that later in the LA thread.

I just went through UT and there are no changes. Only KCSG has filed to end on or before 2/17. As noted, KUCW, the only other station expected to go on 2/17 has agreed to delay until 6/12.

No need to apologize; other than my big list a page or two back, I haven't done anything with my own stuff yet. The lack of sleep from last night is making it a challenge to focus on much of anything.

- Trip

Charleston-Huntington WV

WSAZ - Shutting off 2/17 w/nightlight Link (http://fjallfoss.fcc.gov/cgi-bin/ws.exe/prod/cdbs/forms/prod/cdbsmenu.hts?context=25&appn=101294713&formid=910&fac_num=36912)

WOWK - Shutting of 2/17 Link (http://fjallfoss.fcc.gov/cgi-bin/ws.exe/prod/cdbs/forms/prod/cdbsmenu.hts?context=25&appn=101295050&formid=910&fac_num=23342)

WCHS - Shutting off 2/17 w/nightlight Link (http://fjallfoss.fcc.gov/cgi-bin/ws.exe/prod/cdbs/forms/prod/cdbsmenu.hts?context=25&appn=101294736&formid=910&fac_num=71280)

WVAH - Shutting off 2/17 w/nightlight Link (http://fjallfoss.fcc.gov/cgi-bin/ws.exe/prod/cdbs/forms/prod/cdbsmenu.hts?context=25&appn=101294882&formid=910&fac_num=417)

Alan's stuff is up. Not sure what to do next. I'm really feeling that 4 hours of sleep right about now.
Trip, if you still need help, I can put together lists for the Washington DC DMA and MD stations later today. Not many of them going off on Feb. 17, so it should be straightforward.

Get the sleep and study. That is more important than getting this info completely updated today. If the FCC does release a list of the Feb. 17 stations, that will make it easier to update the list and cross-check the accuracy of the webpage.

Trip, if you still need help, I can put together lists for the Washington DC DMA and MD stations later today. Not many of them going off on Feb. 17, so it should be straightforward.

If you wouldn't mind. There are instructions floating around, otherwise the source code on the web page should be pretty self-explanatory. I already went through and figured out which stations have filed a page or two back, so that part's already done. Just need to get the filings and put them together.

Get the sleep and study. That is more important than getting this info completely updated today. If the FCC does release a list of the Feb. 17 stations, that will make it easier to update the list and cross-check the accuracy of the webpage.

I'm fine. Just tired. And I want to be better than the FCC site. Thus why I'm hard at work on this list! :D

Anyway, I have to go off to Electronics class where I will most likely die and unpleasant transistor-related death. :D Back around 12:30.

- Trip

As of this time, President Obama has still not signed the DTV Delay bill. You can check the status of the bill at:
http://thomas.loc.gov/cgi-bin/bdquery/z?d111:S352:

(Just a thought: Can you imagine the craziness that will occur if the president vetoes the bill?)

Larry
SF

Delicious in a sick sort of way.

BTW, don't all NTSC licenses expire on 2/17. Will the FCC have to grant a blanket extension, or what?

It looks like Providence is going ahead. Hopefully, they will be allowed to and this won't be considered not in the public interest. Only WPXQ/ION did not file. Add WNAC, WPRI, WJAR and WLNE.

Of interest is that WNAC wants to nightlight on 64. While the old nightlight rules would not allow a station to nightlight above 51, I don't see why they couldn't with 52-69 still being available for now.

Of interest is that WNAC wants to nightlight on 64. While the old nightlight rules would not allow a station to nightlight above 51, I don't see why they couldn't with 52-69 still being available for now.
But 64 is one of the 4 channels being re-allocated for the public safety/emergency services: 63, 64, 68, 69 if I am not mistaken. Since one of the argument for going ahead on Feb. 17 is to free up those 4 channels, the FCC might be reluctant to allow a station to continue on UHF 64. I don't know if there is anyone actually ready to make use of those four frequency bands, but if I were the FCC staff, the safer political CYA path would be to not allow any stations to stay there if they are shutting off analog anyway.

Trip, hats off to you for the job sorting out this muck. I did the search for the ATN's the hard way, wished that I saw your shortcut earlier this morning.

My weekend at work was tough, and what do I do...blog about DTV/ATV and do searches all day yesterday.

If only the weather will stay stable and not storm as predicted tonight.

Delicious in a sick sort of way.

BTW, don't all NTSC licenses expire on 2/17. Will the FCC have to grant a blanket extension, or what?

The FCC will just administratively extend all of them, without sending each station a new piece of paper.

BTW, don't all NTSC licenses expire on 2/17. Will the FCC have to grant a blanket extension, or what?
The bill states that the FCC shall extend licenses so yes it's a blanket extension.

As of this time, President Obama has still not signed the DTV Delay bill. You can check the status of the bill at:
http://thomas.loc.gov/cgi-bin/bdquery/z?d111:S352:There is a change ---
"Presented to the President 2/9/09" ... It was just "Cleared for White House".

It is literally in President Obama's hands now (or at least a folder near him). :)

BTW, don't all NTSC licenses expire on 2/17. Will the FCC have to grant a blanket extension, or what?Check your favorite station's license. The ones I've checked expire in 2013 (along with all other broadcasters in my state). Analog licenses have a "Special Condition" that require stations to cease analog and return a channel by February 17th or such other date that the commission may establish.

Example: http://fjallfoss.fcc.gov/cgi-bin/ws.exe/prod/cdbs/pubacc/prod/view_auth.pl?Application_id=1134176&File_number=BLCT-20060627ACE&Callsign=WNDU-TV&Facility=41674
"This license expires 3:00 a.m. local time, August 01, 2013."

"This is to notify you that your application for license is subject to the condition that on February 17, 2009, or by such other date as the Commission may establish in the future under Section 309(j)(14)(a) and (b) of the Communications Act, the licensee shall surrender either its analog or digital television channel for reallocation or reassignment pursuant to Commission regulations. The Channel retained by the licensee will be used to broadcast digital television only after this date."

Maybe it'll slide off the desk into the trash :)

Trip,

Here are the Idaho, Oregon and Washington stations.

I'm going back and adding all of the 387's. Just thought I'd post this now in case anyone wants a first look at these three northwestern states.

Maybe it'll slide off the desk into the trash :)

At this point, with all the work and effort and time I've been putting into this thing, I'll be more upset if it DOESN'T get delayed. More of my time in the trash.

Thanks JimboG.

I'm thinking about tweaking my website to make it easier to get to station Correspondence Folders (by linking to them directly in the listings for the duration of the transition), but I'm very short on time right now. It'd be later in the afternoon. Anyone have any opinions on this?

- Trip

Trip,

Here are Idaho, Oregon and Washington state with the STA's or 387's as appropriate.

Thanks to everybody for all the hard work going over these filings!

At this point, with all the work and effort and time I've been putting into this thing, I'll be more upset if it DOESN'T get delayed. More of my time in the trash.

Thanks JimboG.

I'm thinking about tweaking my website to make it easier to get to station Correspondence Folders (by linking to them directly in the listings for the duration of the transition), but I'm very short on time right now. It'd be later in the afternoon. Anyone have any opinions on this?

- Trip

It would speed up hunting for them.

But it would probably only be a benefit during the duration of the next month or 2. Plus wouldn't you also have to find 387s?

NTIA Explains Web Site Confusion Over DTV Hard Date
Spokesman: Deadline of June 12 is not public law until Obama signs bill
By John Eggerton -- Broadcasting & Cable, 2/10/2009 10:43:05 AM MT

Related Content: NTIA's Web Site Giving Mixed Messages

A spokesman for the National Telecommunications & Information Administration says that the reason its Web site talks both about the move of the DTV hard date to June 12 and the hard date still being Feb. 17 is that the president has still not signed the bill that moves the date.

Currently, the section updating the DTV-to-analog coupon box program on NTIA's DTV transition Web site says that Congress has voted to move the date. The section on the DTV transition still talks about all analog shutting off on Feb. 17.

"The deadline is of June 12 is not public law until the president signs the bill," said NTIA spokesman Bart Forbes. "At that point we will update all references to the DTV deadline on the Web site."

While the president at press time had still not signed the bill-a White House spokesperson had not responded to an inquiry into why that had not happened yet-the FCC is operating as though the date has been moved, requiring TV stations by midnight Monday to tell the FCC whether they were planning to still go Feb. 17, which would now be early.

http://www.broadcastingcable.com/article/173940-NTIA_Explains_Web_Site_Confusion_Over_DTV_Hard_Date.php

Thanks JimboG!

I'm about to dash out the door to a 3 hour lab. I'll try to be on here during said lab, but it's unlikely that I'll be able to.

I still want opinions on my proposal as noted above.

- Trip

It would speed up hunting for them.

But it would probably only be a benefit during the duration of the next month or 2. Plus wouldn't you also have to find 387s?

If you expand Technical Data and click on CDBS List, the 387s are listed there. They're filing numbers BDTUCT or BDTRET or whatever.

- Trip

If you expand Technical Data and click on CDBS List, the 387s are listed there. They're filing numbers BDTUCT or BDTRET or whatever.

- Trip

ARG!! I had two tabs open in Fx and was looking up each call sign in each.

Probably didn't take any longer.

I did find one 387 without correspondence. WRDQ , but it's there now!

http://fjallfoss.fcc.gov/cgi-bin/ws.exe/prod/cdbs/forms/prod/cdbsmenu.hts?context=25&appn=101295273&formid=910&fac_num=55454
Also modified my file and uploaded it here with WRDQ Corr added.

Opps, I also added stations like WGFL that had already shut down.

At this point I am wondering if Obama is having second thoughts or a big lunch.

Trip,

Here are the Idaho, Oregon and Washington stations.

I'm going back and adding all of the 387's. Just thought I'd post this now in case anyone wants a first look at these three northwestern states.

Jimbo, if you are also including stations already digital only, there is one Portland, OR station who has already flash cut to 22 digital only, although they also have a translator at CH54, which is supposed to move to CH42 analog. Oh yeah, it says Salem but they are a Portland tower. :rolleyes:

KPXG DT ION 22 04 22 12/03/2008

http://fjallfoss.fcc.gov/cgi-bin/ws.exe/prod/cdbs/forms/prod/cdbsmenu.hts?context=25&appn=101283540&formid=387&fac_num=5801

FYI, the Portland stations who had applied for early termination before (all but KNMT) have since all changed back to June 12. KNMT never says but I assume they are June 12. Online, info for most of them is a mess, they haven't corrected older articles and countdowns.

FCC Releases Lists of Stations Terminating Analog Operations on or Before February 17

http://hraunfoss.fcc.gov/edocs_public/attachmatch/DA-09-221A1.pdf
http://hraunfoss.fcc.gov/edocs_public/attachmatch/DA-09-221A3.pdf
http://hraunfoss.fcc.gov/edocs_public/attachmatch/DA-09-221A5.pdf

Appendix A to this Public Notice contains a list of the 190 stations that have terminated or will be terminating their analog operations before February 17, 2009, and the 491 stations that notified the Commission on February 9 of their intent to terminate their analog operations on February 17, 2009.6 Appendix B contains a list of all full-power television stations, grouped by Nielsen Designated Market Area (DMA), and indicates in bold the 681 stations terminating analog service on or before February 17, 2009.

190 is lower than the count I have (215+).

WLWC isn't on the list because they apparently never filed anything with the FCC. They might not be the only ones.

- Trip

I did a quick check of the list with what I have and everything checks out except for WPTO - which has a properly filed form - one of the ones on the first day, and WBGU which the FCC doesn't have marked but I show them having analog off since 11/12/08.

I'm not even going to look at the FCC's list. I know ours (not just mine anymore :D) will be far superior.

- Trip

WLWC isn't on the list because they apparently never filed anything with the FCC. They might not be the only ones.

- Trip

I noticed that. Does that mean that they have to turn analog back on? :eek:

I noticed that. Does that mean that they have to turn analog back on? :eek:

No, just means that Four Points Media should fire their legal department and try again. The FCC might hand them a fine (if reported) but that's about it.

- Trip

190 is lower than the count I have (215+).

189 is lower than the count you have (215+).

The FCC lists WTVY (Dothan, AL) in the list... but WTVY has decided to delay til June (and filed twice with the FCC to say so).

Trip, I haven't forgotten AL, but it will be a little bit longer before I can get it to you. :o

~Alan

This is for my own reference:

PA: WYOU, WWCP, WSEE, WQMY, WPMY, WPMT**, WPGH, WNEP, WLYH,


Trip,

1. Is this a list of stations that have preliminarily said they will shutoff analog next week?

2. What does the "**" mean for WPMT?

Thanks.

Trip, I haven't forgotten AL, but it will be a little bit longer before I can get it to you. :o

No worry and no hurry. I haven't even caught up on the stuff I need to do. You can probably see my big red note at the top of the DTR page. :D

Trip,

1. Is this a list of stations that have preliminarily said they will shutoff analog next week?

Yep.

2. What does the "**" mean for WPMT?

Thanks.

They want to run or are running reduced power. I needed to note to myself that they're NOT shutting off but still need to be on the list.

- Trip

Hmm, this still looks like well over a third of TV stations will be DTV only by Feb 17.

Can't say that I care for the still threatening tone of the FCC's latest announcement. The FCC still says they might block a station from shutting off analog TV if it is "contrary to the public interest" even though the minority party in the Senate specifically required an option for early analog termination. The FCC really is getting close to running afoul of the legislative history.

I'm not even going to look at the FCC's list. I know ours (not just mine anymore :D) will be far superior.
Entirely possible. (No ":)")

Most of the FCC lists released recently have had errors, and this one is no exception.

WHAG did not file a termination notice, did update its 387 to indicate it will not terminate analog on February 15 as previously planned, but instead wait until June 12 or one or two days prior, yet it's still right there on the FCC's list as terminating prior to February 17.

And that's just what jumped out at me in the first 30 seconds.

Edit: And they list WJAL as terminating on the 17th, when, in fact, they are already silent due to a fire.

FCC Releases Lists of Stations Terminating Analog Operations on or Before February 17

http://hraunfoss.fcc.gov/edocs_public/attachmatch/DA-09-221A1.pdf
http://hraunfoss.fcc.gov/edocs_public/attachmatch/DA-09-221A3.pdf
http://hraunfoss.fcc.gov/edocs_public/attachmatch/DA-09-221A5.pdf



190 is lower than the count I have (215+).

A1 is the notice itself
A3 is the "current FCC List" of stations shutting down on Feb 17 or before
A5 is the list of all full power stations (including those in A3).

Entirely possible. (No ":)")

I didn't make the smilie about the "better than" statement, but about the "ours, not mine" statement.

Most of the FCC lists released recently have had errors, and this one is no exception.

WHAG did not file a termination notice, did update its 387 to indicate it will not terminate analog on February 15 as previously planned, but instead wait until June 12 or one or two days prior, yet it's still right there on the FCC's list as terminating prior to February 17.

And that's just what jumped out at me in the first 30 seconds.

Yep. FCC lists are usually full of them, and getting things fixed with the FCC is either an ordeal or just never happens. Maybe they'd like to hire me to clean up the CDBS after the transition? :D

- Trip

WHAG did not file a termination notice, did update its 387 to indicate it will not terminate analog on February 15 as previously planned, but instead wait until June 12 or one or two days prior, yet it's still right there on the FCC's list as terminating prior to February 17.
I noticed that right away too. WHAG NBC 25 in Hagerstown, MD has a weak 900 Watt DT 55 broadcast and it's post-transition DT 26 broadcast is blocked by WETA-TV PBS 26 in DC which appears to be staying on the air until June 12. Not likely to kill their analog until they can start up their post-trans DT broadcast.

I didn't make the smilie about the "better than" statement, but about the "ours, not mine" statement.
Yes, I got that.... :)

Maybe they'd like to hire me to clean up the CDBS after the transition? :D
But then you might start making mistakes, too. You never know; it might be something in the water.... ;)

And the winners are:
Bakersfield CA - all four stations on 2/17
Columbus-Tupelo-West Point MS - two down, four to go on 2/17
Quincy IL - one down, four to go on 2/17
Rockford IL - all four stations on 2/17
Salsbury MD - two down, one to go on 2/17
Santa Barbara CA - all six stations on 2/17 (1 nightlight)
South Bend IN - two down, two to go on 2/17 (2 nightlights?)
Topeka KS - all four stations on 2/17 (1 nightlight)
Victoria TX - both stations on 2/17

From the FCC list it looks like these are the markets that will be analog free on Feb 17th.
The other markets show at least one holdout remaining analog.
(And yes, I question the accuracy of the FCC list.)

I noticed that right away too. WHAG NBC 25 in Hagerstown, MD has a weak 900 Watt DT 55 broadcast and it's post-transition DT 26 broadcast is blocked by WETA-TV PBS 26 in DC which appears to be staying on the air until June 12. Not likely to kill their analog until they can start up their post-trans DT broadcast.

If only there were some way to have everyone move at once, so conflicts like this wouldn't happen. Some sort of coordinated national termination of analog broadcasts.:rolleyes:

And the winners are:
...
Santa Barbara CA - all six stations on 2/17 (1 nightlight)
...

Congressman Waxman must love this.:D

From the FCC list it looks like these are the markets that will be analog free on Feb 17th.
The other markets show at least one holdout remaining analog.
(And yes, I question the accuracy of the FCC list.)

Dayton is close. Everyone's going off 2/17 except the TBN O&O licensed to Richmond, Indiana. It may as well be analog free if only the TBN station remains.

Congressman Waxman must love this.:D

Senator Rockefeller reportedly has all but four stations in his state (West Virginia) going early, not counting some of the out-of-state broadcasters in WV markets (KY, OH for Charleston, etc.).

He must be thrilled! Not!

Unfortunately, there are markets like ours, where no one is dumping analog on the 17th aside from the local all-infomercial station, WOAC/67. Of course, their digital allocation would probably provide a public service if it shut off!

Can't say that I care for the still threatening tone of the FCC's latest announcement. The FCC still says they might block a station from shutting off analog TV if it is "contrary to the public interest" even though the minority party in the Senate specifically required an option for early analog termination. The FCC really is getting close to running afoul of the legislative history.
The minority party got an option for early analog termination under FCC flexible procedures, which would allow stations to terminate starting March 14. The question is whether stations also have carte blanche to terminate on February 17. Inasmuch as there was no debate in the Senate, I’m not sure what legislative history you are referring to. Is there something in the CR about this?

Given the FCC’s interpretation of the statute, the number of stations terminating, and Obama’s lack of signature thus far, I think one concern at this point is whether he would issue some sort of executive order overriding the FCC’s waivers. I still don’t think that’s likely, but it seems more possible to me now than it did previously.

Oh, the Wheeling WV/Steubenville OH market is another two-station market about to be all digital.

Given the FCC’s interpretation of the statute, the number of stations terminating, and Obama’s lack of signature thus far, I think one concern at this point is whether he would issue some sort of executive order overriding the FCC’s waivers. I still don’t think that’s likely, but it seems more possible to me now than it did previously.

You and I have talked back and forth about this before, and I agree...at this point, I'm not willing to rule anything out as being possible in this mess.

I found two stations in the new FCC list for the SF Bay Area that I didn't find last night. There's nothing in their Correspondence Files, but they do request permission in their Form 387. Guess that's enough to qualify.

The two added stations are:
KCBA 35 Salinas
KFTY 50 Santa Rosa

So the complete list for the SF Bay Area/Sacramento/Stockton/Salinas/Monterey is:
KOFY 20 San Francisco
KCBA 35 Salinas
KICU 36 San Jose
KCNS 38 San Francisco
KION 46 Monterey
KFTY 50 Santa Rosa

No stations in Sacramento/Stockton will be shutting down early.

The only station that will be doing Nightlight Service is KOFY 20.

Also, KFTY has submitted an application for Special Temporary Authority (STA) to move their digital operation to their post-transition channel, moving from channel 54 to channel 32, on February 17. Personally, I don't see how they can do that with KMTP 32 analog still on the air from Sutro. There's only 65 miles distance between the two transmitters.

Larry
SF

Anyone know the status of WPLG and WSVN in Miami, FL? They are both VHF and running low power right now, and I was looking forward to them going full power post-transition...

But now we have no idea what's going on.

Are they extending to June or shutting down on the 17th?

The minority party got an option for early analog termination under FCC flexible procedures, which would allow stations to terminate starting March 14.Those flexible procedures have existed since December 2005 when the FCC put them in place. The only thing that has changed is the date - 90 days to transition is no longer Nov 19th through Feb 17th. 90 days to transition begins (again) March 14th.

The question is whether stations also have carte blanche to terminate on February 17.There is a section of S.352 that allows stations to shut down their analog signals. It probably should have been worded more firmly. The FCC seems to be erring on the side of leaving analog stations running.

If they don't block anyone on the list at least we'll have a few hundred stations transitioned. The rest of the stations will join the party soon enough.

But then you might start making mistakes, too. You never know; it might be something in the water.... ;)

Good thing I don't drink water, I live on milk. :D

(Speaking of which, this milk I just sipped is bad. Yuck!)

Anyway, now I'm back from my lab (took only 45 minutes as opposed to an hour and 45 last week) and I'm free to... do homework. I have:

Solid State Devices homework due at 11AM
Computer Architecture homework due at 2PM
Financial Accounting test at 3:30PM
Differential Equations test at 7:00PM

I've done no preparation for any of these, though I won't be doing any for Financial Accounting since it's pretty easy to me.

I'll be poking around on the forum while I work and looking at FCC filings after midnight (as I do every weeknight) but no work on the DTR will occur.

Also, please note that WFFF has filed with the wrong form.

- Trip

FCC Releases Lists of Stations Terminating Analog Operations on or Before February 17

http://hraunfoss.fcc.gov/edocs_public/attachmatch/DA-09-221A1.pdf
http://hraunfoss.fcc.gov/edocs_public/attachmatch/DA-09-221A3.pdf
http://hraunfoss.fcc.gov/edocs_public/attachmatch/DA-09-221A5.pdf



190 is lower than the count I have (215+).

They missed WCJB on the first one but have it in Red on the second one.

I am amazed they made a list! They never cease to amaze or entertain me.

When you get to it Trip, your list is missing WGTV in Atlanta. Which we're happy to see is dropping on Feb 17th, allowing it to move from interim 12 to final 8 and increase power and pattern. At long last.

My two cents: don't check the forum, do your work, and come back Wednesday night.

Here is my cut at listing the stations for the Washington DC and Baltimore, Hagerstown, Salisbury, MD markets. The list almost certainly needs some format correction as I don't do html. I have also not inserted all the links needed, but included the important ones I could find that pertain to the stations shutting down Feb. 17 and those that already have. I have work to do myself, so I will post the draft and let others take it from here.

Trip, it is more important to do the homework and stay ahead of the coursework. The website can wait a day or two. For one, who knows if the FCC will deny some of these shutdowns? Makes sense to wait for things to play out a bit.

Alabama is done. I just have to check for 387s and then I'll be sending it as well.

~Alan

As far as as a Unix shell is concerned, that is. (At least, the shells that I'm acquainted with.)

I've used sh, bash, ksh, csh, tcsh and use zsh as my login shell. The % character is used with job control. i.e., kill -9 %1 or fg %1.

Even then, the % is not a wildcard, it is a special character, just like any of these: ;^$&[]()\<> space tab

The SQL database query language does use '%' as a multi-character wildcard when searching. It also uses '_' as a single-character wildcard. I use them both in MySQL queries.

That isn't a unix shell. That is a program that uses whatever it wants for wildcards and special characters. Do not equate what a program uses for a wildcard with a Unix shell. Apples and Oranges.

NTIA Explains Web Site Confusion Over DTV Hard Date
Spokesman: Deadline of June 12 is not public law until Obama signs bill
By John Eggerton -- Broadcasting & Cable, 2/10/2009 10:43:05 AM MT

While the president at press time had still not signed the bill-a White House spokesperson had not responded to an inquiry into why that had not happened yet-the FCC is operating as though the date has been moved, requiring TV stations by midnight Monday to tell the FCC whether they were planning to still go Feb. 17, which would now be early.

http://www.broadcastingcable.com/article/173940-NTIA_Explains_Web_Site_Confusion_Over_DTV_Hard_Date.php

To me this means that the FCC is writing their own laws, in clear violation of the constitution. Their "rule" telling stations they needed to inform by Monday is not inforceable, as there is no law on the books that allows them to create such a mandate. As it stands right now, as pointed out in the article, the analog shutdown is still occurring on Tuesday, for everyone covered under the current law.

Time for the Justice Department to do their job :D

Yep, the Three Stooges: the President, Congress and the FCC (What a fine mess you've gotten us into)

To me this means that the FCC is writing their own laws, in clear violation of the constitution. Their "rule" telling stations they needed to inform by Monday is not inforceable, as there is no law on the books that allows them to create such a mandate. As it stands right now, as pointed out in the article, the analog shutdown is still occurring on Tuesday, for everyone covered under the current law.

Yes, publishing and enforcing regulations in anticipation of legal authority to do so seems problematic.

I could start writing checks in anticipation of winning the lottery, but I suspect that might end badly.:p

I can tell you that WYMT is definitely cutting analog on Feb. 17. They just mentioned it on their newscast.

Trip, check your email as I just sent an update. Found stuff there not there this morning.

The FCC list shows stuff I can't find any documentation to show they are off and night lights don't match either.

So as instructed if not documented don't add it. So look as you can now update FL for the day.

Piggie :@)

Trip, I have family in Jackson, TN, so when I saw two stations on the FCC list, and only one on your website (at this time), I looked up the Jackson, TN stations on the FCC site, and sure enough, the FCC got one right:

WJKT DT FOX 16 39 39 <a href="http://fjallfoss.fcc.gov/cgi-bin/ws.exe/prod/cdbs/forms/prod/prefill_and_display.pl?Application_id=1294784&Form_id=910&Facility_id=68519">02/17/09</a> <a href="http://fjallfoss.fcc.gov/cgi-bin/ws.exe/prod/cdbs/forms/prod/prefill_and_display.pl?Application_id=1295414&Service=TV&Form_id=387&Facility_id=68519">20090209ANV</a> N NEWPORT TELEVISION LICENSE LLC <br />

~Alan

It appears that XETV will continue analog CH. 6 but as a Mexican channel in the Tijuana area. It will likely be a subchannel for XETV-TD/DT. I'm sure when that happens XHBJ-TD/DT will move back to CH. 44. It might air Galavision or Televisa XHGC Canal 5. Who knows for sure. The plans have yet to be finalized.

http://hdtv.forsandiego.com/messages/76/7302.html?1234326506

To me this means that the FCC is writing their own laws, in clear violation of the constitution. Their "rule" telling stations they needed to inform by Monday is not inforceable, as there is no law on the books that allows them to create such a mandate. As it stands right now, as pointed out in the article, the analog shutdown is still occurring on Tuesday, for everyone covered under the current law.The FCC has not created a law ... they have simply requested information. They have the right to set regulations that fit within the law ... they are not asking stations to break current law by being on the air in analog (other than nightlight service) after February 17th nor ordering any station to do so. They are simply asking the station's PREFERENCE.

Where does asking stations a what if question violate law? It is just a survey.

The FCC may find itself in court if they deny any of the February 17th shutdown requests. If a station turns off their analog signal on or before February 16th and did not notify the FCC 30 days before THE STATION is in violation of the current regulations. Their technical failure better be verifiable! A February 17th shutdown should not be denied.

Nothing wrong with taking a survey ... even a binding one.

I hate solid state devices. I'm not done with the homework, but it's after midnight now, so.

KLRU has an STA on file now for March 31. We'll see what else comes in.

NBC's filing to nightlight. More 387s coming in.

WOHL-CA makes me laugh. In a good way.

- Trip

The FCC has not created a law ... they have simply requested information. They have the right to set regulations that fit within the law ... they are not asking stations to break current law by being on the air in analog (other than nightlight service) after February 17th nor ordering any station to do so. They are simply asking the station's PREFERENCE.

No, it was worded as a ruling, i.e., they said that stations HAD to submit the form by Monday. They can't force a station to provide info based on a law that isn't law. They have crossed the line.

Where does asking stations a what if question violate law? It is just a survey.

No, it wan't a survey. They are going to use the data to determine if they are going to let a station shut down, or not. Read the first PDF.

The FCC may find itself in court if they deny any of the February 17th shutdown requests. If a station turns off their analog signal on or before February 16th and did not notify the FCC 30 days before THE STATION is in violation of the current regulations. Their technical failure better be verifiable! A February 17th shutdown should not be denied.[/quote]

If equipment failure, they can inform after the fact. It would be a great crystal ball if they were able to inform the FCC that at such-and-such a time the transmitter was going to blow the final stage. Obviously, having it fail any day before the 18th would indeed be suspicious.

Nothing wrong with taking a survey ... even a binding one.

It wasn't a survey. It was a requirement based upon a law that is not even law, yet.

The rule that says stations have to now do a crawl about the shutdown would be legal, if it was based on the current law, but it is only directed at the stations who have filed to shut down on the 17th. Again illegal.

Obviously, your opinion varies from mine :D

I hate solid state devices.

Interesting, considering that television requires them these days :D

WOHL-CA makes me laugh. In a good way.

How so?

Mrvideo's Legal Services. As reliable as Congress's commitment to February 17. :D

Looks like all filings are in for the evening. A few 387s and a few nightlight STAs, but that's about it.

WOHL-CA wants to go digital on channel 35 recycling the WLIO analog equipment.

Solid state devices class is a PITA.

- Trip

Mrvideo's Legal Services. As reliable as Congress's commitment to February 17. :D

It's more like I do not have a love for the FCC. And doing this stuff doesn't improve their rating points at all.

Solid state devices class is a PITA.

OK, it is back to tubes for you :D No using a calculator to figure out the operational characteristics of said tubes either..... bring out that slide rule and all those big books of math tables :D :D

OK, it is back to tubes for you :D No using a calculator to figure out the operational characteristics of said tubes either..... bring out that slide rule and all those big books of math tables :D :D

The title of chapter 2 was "Introduction to Quantum Mechanics."

- Trip

When you get to it Trip, your list is missing WGTV in Atlanta.

I did that part of the list. WGTV's filing hadn't shown up yet when I checked the FCC database last night. I've updated my copy of the Atlanta list just now and will get it to Trip in due course.

I found a few others today that weren't there last night, either.

The title of chapter 2 was "Introduction to Quantum Mechanics."

Chapter 13: "String Theory and Time Travel"

Trip sent you an update for my states adding some that were already shut off and the smattering of filings from tonight.

Chapter 13: "String Theory and Time Travel"

At least that would be interesting. :D

Thanks to the various people who have sent me updates in the last few hours. I will attempt to get to them tomorrow evening, possibly as late as 9PM. After the Differential Equations test 7-8:30PM, the stress is off for a while and I can work on the page. I'll be starting with those submitted by others, and then I'll get back to working on my own massive sections.

Would someone be willing to pick up Louisiana? I haven't received anything from kevin120.

If your name is not iowegian3 (I've got your name on the page, ready to be uploaded next time I update the page), and you've helped me out on this, please let me know if your name is not credited at the top of the page. I think I have everyone, but given my rushed state and the fact that most e-mails I get have actual names rather than AVS Forum screen names, I want to be sure.

The next step, once the new 387s stop coming in, is to fill in the missing ones. If a station didn't file in this round, it will be necessary to fill them in with the last newest 387 filing they have. I'm not ready to start this yet, but just be aware that I'm going to ask in the near future. You don't have to do it, but it would make my life a lot easier, and be the last thing on the list and then you don't have to worry about watching FCC filings any more if you don't want to. :D

Anyway, off to bed with me, regardless of the status of my homework. A good night's sleep is more important to thinking during the day tomorrow.

- Trip

I aced my last Calc final (top scorer) in high school and was always ahead until I got here. Something changed and I don't know what, but I've been having a ton of trouble with math in general it since I got to UVA. I even retook the Calc I took in high school during my first semester and only got a C+!
- Trip

Being a UVa Engineering School grad myself, I can tell you what changed. Most likely every student in your differential equations class were top scorers in their respective high schools. You went from stellar to average because you made it into a fairly selective university.

Being a UVa Engineering School grad myself, I can tell you what changed. Most likely every student in your differential equations class were top scorers in their respective high schools. You went from stellar to average because you made it into a fairly selective university.

Yep, same damned thing happened to me in undergrad. Turns out there are a lot more bright, hardworking folks out there than high school might have suggested.:D

There is a section of S.352 that allows stations to shut down their analog signals. It probably should have been worded more firmly. The FCC seems to be erring on the side of leaving analog stations running.
But how is this “erring”? It seems to me that the clear preference of the President and the Congress was for most stations to continue analog.

The FCC may find itself in court if they deny any of the February 17th shutdown requests.
Ok, assuming the bill is not vetoed – because otherwise this whole discussion is moot – what would be the basis?

Or, let’s consider this from another angle. It’s been suggested in this thread – without documentation – that the FCC’s Notice goes beyond the legislative history. That notice is now six days old. So have you (or anyone) seen any quote, any news report, any anything, anywhere, that suggests that any member of Congress, on either side of the issue, is in any way surprised by how the FCC is interpreting the law they just passed?

I haven’t seen anything like that, but then I haven’t been looking for it, either. But surely, if the FCC has departed from Congressional intent to the extent so many here would like to believe, there should be some evidence of that available somewhere on the internet. So I invite you, and others who believe this, to find that evidence, and post it here, please.

I hate solid state devices. I'm not done with the homework, but it's after midnight now, so.

KLRU has an STA on file now for March 31. We'll see what else comes in.

NBC's filing to nightlight. More 387s coming in.

WOHL-CA makes me laugh. In a good way.

- Trip

I am going to check mine again in the morning letting them all come in.

Quite a few more did come in after midnight Monday. I think a lot of stuff is not up that was filed on Monday.

Trip and the group. If you want to read something to the point, read the comments on WEDU's correspondence.

Well at least I can test WESH after Feb 17th as both WINK and WFSU are going silent on Ch 11. I doubt they even bother me, but you never know as there might have been bursts of high band skip that I am getting now but can't identify. well maybe. It will be interesting to test Ch 11 post 2/17.

The worst of the news is it still looks like I will have to put up with WFTV till June. ARGGGGGGGGGGGGGGG!!!!!!!!!!

Ignore S.352 for a moment (which you are at full liberty to do, since it isn't law until Obama signs it) and answer a couple questions.
No, it was worded as a ruling, i.e., they said that stations HAD to submit the form by Monday. They can't force a station to provide info based on a law that isn't law. They have crossed the line.What law prevents the FCC from asking stations their preference? Or is it your assertion that EVERY QUESTION that the FCC can EVER ASK MUST be based in law?

Under what authority was form 387 collected? Under what authority were the current 90 day "30 day notice to FCC and viewers" shutdown window operating? Show me where in US Code that the FCC must ask those questions.

They are going to use the data to determine if they are going to let a station shut down, or not. Read the first PDF.Nice piece of writing in that PDF. It explains fully their purpose for that list which will be used IF the law abruptly changes. But in a world without S.352 the question is what stations absolutely want to shut down on the 17th and who wouldn't mind being on for longer, if the law should miraculously change?

Their technical failure better be verifiable!If equipment failure, they can inform after the fact. It would be a great crystal ball if they were able to inform the FCC that at such-and-such a time the transmitter was going to blow the final stage. Obviously, having it fail any day before the 18th would indeed be suspicious.Exactly ... all of an owners stations mysteriously suffering failures would catch notice. Hopefully any station that wanted to go on February 17th has filed.

The rule that says stations have to now do a crawl about the shutdown would be legal, if it was based on the current law, but it is only directed at the stations who have filed to shut down on the 17th. Again illegal.Again, what illegal about the FCC encouraging stations to increase their public service commitments? The "increased" notifications only affects stations that were lax in performing their already required (under regulation, not law) notification that their analog would be shutting off on February 17th.

In a world without S.352 and a reported 5-6% of viewers not ready it would be good of the FCC to request any station that wants to leave the air to notify their viewers as often as practical (perhaps even more often than practical).

At the moment the FCC has not forbade a single station from turning off their analog stations on February 17th, 2009. THAT would be illegal. The FCC has stayed completely within the law on this issue.

It's more like I do not have a love for the FCC. And doing this stuff doesn't improve their rating points at all.Waiting around until a signature appears would be slothful. They have the power to ask questions. Might as well be prepared.

As nice of a fantasy it would be that the FCC would look at S.352, even after it becomes PL 111-4, and say "it is too late, stuff it" the commission has the obligation to regulate broadcasting.

But how is this “erring”? It seems to me that the clear preference of the President and the Congress was for most stations to continue analog.The idea of "erring" is assuming both options are wrong. One option is to let anyone who wants to turn off analog do so. The other option is to discourage analog shutoffs. It would be best if there is no error ... but IF the FCC is going to make a mistake they seem to be erring toward preventing analog shutoffs instead of the clear language of section of S.352 that allows stations to shut down their analog signals.

Ok, assuming the bill is not vetoed – because otherwise this whole discussion is moot – what would be the basis?As stated by the FCC in their statements: To serve the public. How is the public in South Bend Indiana or the other 9 or so markets that will "wake up February 18th and find no analog television" be served by an analog shut down? If there is an ice storm next Thursday is it serving the community to have NO full power analog broadcasters and on average 5% of the population unable to view digital?

Personally I think it is a disservice to the community NOT to allow the transition to digital to be completed. But the people who pushed for the delay disagree and COULD consider all shutoffs not in the public interest.

Or, let’s consider this from another angle. It’s been suggested in this thread – without documentation – that the FCC’s Notice goes beyond the legislative history. That notice is now six days old. So have you (or anyone) seen any quote, any news report, any anything, anywhere, that suggests that any member of Congress, on either side of the issue, is in any way surprised by how the FCC is interpreting the law they just passed?No ... but I suppose they have been busy with little things like trying to make sure that more coupons are funded. Along with a few hundred billion dollars worth of other things.

Some of the "legislative history" supports the thought that the number of stations remaining in analog would be low. Once stations began their own unrequested filings Acting Chairman Copps was asked to have the media bureau provide the answer of how many stations COULD opt out under the law. The estimate was twice as high as the number of stations that filed to opt out ... perhaps due to the intimidating language of the February 5th notice. It seems that even within the FCC there is a question of what the law allows and what the commissioners will accept.

No, it was worded as a ruling, i.e., they said that stations HAD to submit the form by Monday.... or they would not consider granting the station the right to terminate analog early should the bill become law. They could do that (the only real effect of the filings due Monday), all by themselves, without the filings, assuming the bill is signed.

They can't force a station to provide info based on a law that isn't law.Many stations didn't provide such information. No harm. No foul.

They have crossed the line.I know you wish that was the case, but the law is not on your side in this regard.

The FCC may find itself in court if they deny any of the February 17th shutdown requests.I think you have a chance of being right about this, but you didn't provide a compelling reason to believe you're correct.

I think you have a chance of being right about this, but you didn't provide a compelling reason to believe you're correct.Would stations threatening to use lawyers to protect their legal right to discontinue service be compelling enough?

Just for fun as I drift off to what should be sleep ... Let's follow the timeline ...

Station AAAA files all the proper (electronic) paperwork to terminate their signal on February 17th and complies fully with FCC rules for notifying the FCC and the public of the termination date including harshly worded messages and analog shut down tests warning the public in no uncertain terms of the termination date.

Due to action in Congress, station AAAA becomes concerned that the national target date might change, so they file special filings under current regulations explaining their circumstances and making it clear that they will be disabling their analog signal.

When congressional action leads to a bill ready for the president the FCC quickly applies new procedures to handle the ad hoc requests to disable analog stations "early". Station AAAA follows those procedures and restates again their shutdown date.

At some point the bill is signed into law.

The FCC decides that it is in the public interest that station AAAA be prohibited from disabling their analog signal. However on February 17th the station decides to turn off their analog transmitter as they have previously notified the FCC and the public they would be doing.

The FCC notes that the station is no longer broadcasting an analog signal and issues a notice of apparent liability (NAL) asking station AAAA to correct the situation. The station claims that they have followed all regulations in effect at the time of their silent requests and notification and chooses to remain silent. The FCC issues a fine for unauthorized silent operation. The station refuses to pay said fine (or if small pays it to clear the issue).

Either the FCC relents and either allows the analog shutoff of AAAA or they set a fine that is acceptable to AAAA (unless AAAA wants to fight on principal). Most likely there will be lawyers involved in there somewhere.

I doubt there will be any serious penalties for stations that cease on February 17th as long as they can prove notifications are made. No real forfeitures or fines. But with stations promising their lawyers are involved, I'm pretty sure there will be lawyers involved.

Oh, so you meant just that the FCC may find itself in court... not that they'd actually lose. Okay, that makes sense.

Turns out there are a lot more bright, hardworking folks out there than high school might have suggested.:D

And we slackers thank you too!! :D

I wonder if the FCC or Congress has thought of this: Will they force some of the analogs back on the air in Wilmington and Hawaii to make Sen Rockefeller happy so no analog only home goes without service?

How can they force analog back on if the towers are in the process of being taken down in Hawaii? For Wilmington all people should have digital converters now or cable or sat, or a digital tv.

The title of chapter 2 was "Introduction to Quantum Mechanics."

- Trip

You must be studying Electrical Engineering - before you graduate - you will have forgotten more math than most people ever learn (other engineers, mathematicians, physicists and chemists excepted).

Given the FCC’s interpretation of the statute, the number of stations terminating, and Obama’s lack of signature thus far, I think one concern at this point is whether he would issue some sort of executive order overriding the FCC’s waivers. I still don’t think that’s likely, but it seems more possible to me now than it did previously.
This is what's curious. Let's just say for sake of argument that he signs it later today (the 11th). Can the FCC enforce a procedure requiring station action by the 9th when their authority was granted by legislation that wasn't even a law on the 9th?

There's been all kinds of conflicting information here locally (outlined in the email quoted below) as to the transition plans of our Tribune owned ABC and CW affiliates here in New Orleans.

Their plans are of particular interest since WGNO(ABC) must flash cut. They have no digital channel until the transition. WGNO and WNOL(CW) have been sharing one transmitter and as a result, only one of them can have HD content until the transition (ABC wins this contest, leaving all our local CW content in 480i).

Their situation is made even more complicated by the fact that their analog transmitters have been running under STA at very low power and a very low temporary tower site since Katrina destroyed their full power transmitters. This renders their analog signals virtually useless anyway. Furthermore, their STA for these analog transmitters and their tower lease expire on Feb. 17.

Here is the text of an email that I just sent them, which outlines the conflicting information us New Orleans viewers have been getting, and asks them to clarify.

I thought it might be of interest here.


Dear management and/or engineering staff of WGNO,

Lots of your viewers in New Orleans are confused and curious about your digital transition plans for WGNO and WNOL. Needless to say, the mess that has been created with congress' changing the analog shutdown date at the last minute has confused everyone, stations and viewers alike.

I am hoping that you can clarify your specific plans for us.

On February 6, the FCC issued a ruling stating that TV stations wanting to transition on the original transition date of Feb. 17 must file a special form indicating this no later than Feb. 9. The FCC ruling went out of its way to emphasize that Notices of Termination of Operation filed earlier, even a few days earlier, would no longer be considered valid.

I notice that you filed a Notice of Termination of Analog Operations on Feb. 3, but as I note above, the FCC has rendered this notice null and void.

In an article in the Times Picayune on Saturday Feb. 7, it was stated that WGNO and WNOL intended to proceed with their transition plans on Feb. 17, however, you are now running "crawls" that state that the transition will take place on June 12. And, as noted above, you did not file any notice with the FCC between Feb. 6 and Feb. 9.

Many of your viewers are chomping at the bit for WGNO and WNOL to terminate analog so that WGNO's own digital transmitter may be activated alowing WGNO and WNOL to stop sharing a single digital transmitter and thereby alowing WNOL to begin transmitting HD content.

So, when do you plan to shut down analog and complete your transition? Feb. 17, June 12, or some date in between?

Thanks in advance for your response.

Sincerely,

[My name here]
Broadcasting Enthusiast and fan of WGNO and WNOL.

You must be studying Electrical Engineering - before you graduate - you will have forgotten more math than most people ever learn (other engineers, mathematicians, physicists and chemists excepted).

:D

Day of hell to begin very shortly. I woke up about an hour ago but have been just sitting here reading a bit, trying to prepare myself for it. My Comp Arch homework isn't even started and my Solid State homework is incomplete, but I'm out of time. Any free time I find today will be spent (a) recovering my mind on the forum or (b) prepping for Differential Equations at 7.

8:30 needs to hurry up and get here.

- Trip

FCC Releases Lists of Stations Terminating Analog Operations on or Before February 17http://hraunfoss.fcc.gov/edocs_public/attachmatch/DA-09-221A1.pdf
http://hraunfoss.fcc.gov/edocs_public/attachmatch/DA-09-221A3.pdf
http://hraunfoss.fcc.gov/edocs_public/attachmatch/DA-09-221A5.pdf Do you know where I can find a list of the DMAs on the fcc.gov website?

thanks,
troy :-)

Do you know where I can find a list of the DMAs on the fcc.gov website?

thanks,
troy :-)

Attachment A5 in your post...

[snip]
As stated by the FCC in their statements: To serve the public. How is the public in South Bend Indiana or the other 9 or so markets that will "wake up February 18th and find no analog television" be served by an analog shut down? If there is an ice storm next Thursday is it serving the community to have NO full power analog broadcasters and on average 5% of the population unable to view digital?
[snip]
Well, if the ice storm kills the power then since the TV won't work anyway they might try a battery operated radio. If it were just a minor snowstorm and they prefer to get the school closings by TV vs. radio or internet then they could pull the digital converter box out of the closet and hook it up. Remember that Nielson's said that the unprepared number includes households with all the necessary equipment for digital but who are just waiting to the last minute before they bother to connect it up.

There is a section of S.352 that allows stations to shut down their analog signals. It probably should have been worded more firmly. The FCC seems to be erring on the side of leaving analog stations running. But how is this “erring”? It seems to me that the clear preference of the President and the Congress was for most stations to continue analog. Non-relevant. We are a Republic, which means rules of law. The S.352 is not law yet (not signed), and even when it becomes law it still does not give authority to the FCC to block stations from turning-off their analog.

You must be studying Electrical Engineering - before you graduate - you will have forgotten more math than most people ever learn (other engineers, mathematicians, physicists and chemists excepted).

In my case, I hope it can remain forgotten. Those math department classes were a real pain and the math profs were a bit, "out there." Pure EE classes were a lot more fun, much more practice and a lot less theory.

In my case, I hope it can remain forgotten. Those math department classes were a real pain and the math profs were a bit, "out there." Pure EE classes were a lot more fun, much more practice and a lot less theory.

So far, it's almost all theory and math. I hate it!

Back later, folks, wish me luck!

- Trip

FCC: Stations Not Allowed To Go All-Digital Feb. 17 Could Hit Triple Digits
Copps says "dislocation and confusion" is occurring but moving hard date was right move
By John Eggerton -- Broadcasting & Cable, 2/11/2009 11:12:01 AM MT

Acting FCC Chairman Michael Copps would not pin down when the FCC would let the 491 stations wanting to pull the plug on analog Feb. 17 know whether they will be able to or not, but some guidance could be coming out later today, he said.

In his first press conference since taking over as acting chairman Jan. 20, Copps reiterated that the FCC would get back to stations with an answer as soon as it could. "All I can say is as soon as possible," Copps said, pointing out that the commission was working with ridiculous deadlines. He said that everyone had to understand that. "We're down to a matter of days getting the word out to all the stations and getting information in and feedback and guidance out. It is a very trying challenge and we are trying to do that as quickly as possible," he said.

Copps said that "dislocation and confusion" are occurring, but that there would have been more of both if the DTV hard date had not been moved from Feb. 17 to June 12 (which Congress voted to do last week).

Stations should be informing viewers about the Feb. 17 deadline-per the FCC's implementation of the date-change bill-even though some won't be allowed to pull the plug on that date.

But he also said they could finesse the message. "I would hope that stations and newsgathering folks at those stations will be going into this in a little more depth so that people can understand what is going on and that this is a muddied situation and that is a part of the responsibility of the station not just to carry the required notification but to make sure viewers are informed about what is going on and understand the options in more detail."

Copps aide Rick Chessen said that the number of stations in vulnerable markets where the FCC could prohibit them from pulling the plug could be anywhere from low double-digits to triple digits.

Copps said that he was pleased that almost two-thirds of stations planned to remain on in analog.

The FCC is currently vetting those 491 requests to see what stations in vulnerable markets may have to stay on in analog. Copps said those markets would probably be smaller to mid-sized, pointing out that some broadcast groups have stepped up to help insure that most of the big markets were covered. "The larger markets, where we have O&O's, thanks again to the wise decision and the public interest decision of the major networks, there will continue to be analog broadcasting."

Copps said that decision will be based on a number of factors, including how many people in the market are on the DTV-to-analog converter box coupon waiting list, whether all the stations in a market want to go, or whether any analog newscast would remain. "I think if we really know that an area is replete with a lot of minorities, for example, or non-English speaking and seniors and we have some information that there are a lot of people on the converter box waiting list."

Those stations, he said, would come under "special scrutiny" and would have to have compelling reasons to stay on. Those could include contracts related to towers and antennas, he said, but also added that the vetting was still a work in progress.

Chessen said that all the stations in under 20 markets have asked to go on Feb. 17.

The FCC may require one of the stations in each of those markets to stay in analog. But rather than just saying no to stations, the commission may require extra outreach or programming about the transition as something of a quid pro quo for getting to go ahead and pull the plug. "You could have people on the phones, you could have walk-in centers, you could have somebody in the market staying on the air in analog to provide some kind of programming," said Chessen. "Maybe having certain public interest requirements to protect consumers that would adequately protect consumers that would let stations turn off absent a showing of contractual necessity.... If they agree to do certain programming or certain outreach or certain help for consumers that is another thing that is under consideration."

He called the DTV switch the "most demanding consumer technology transition in the history of broadcasting," adding that he had spent his first few weeks trying to fill in the holes left by 20 months of the "happy but mistaken belief that this was going to take care of itself."

The acting chairman said he did not know why President Barack Obama had yet to sign the bill moving the date to June 12, but said "the sooner the better," as far as he was concerned.

Copps said that the FCC had enough funds to get through the Feb. 17 switchover for potentially hundreds of stations, including money for coordinated call center efforts, but he said it did not have enough money to get through June 12. "Between now and June 12 we won't be able to continue the efforts we have been making let alone the significantly enhanced efforts I would like to see without some additional resources. We are counting on getting on some of those resources here if we are going to continue to be asked to do as much as we are doing."

Chessen said it is possible the FCC could set an intermediate date for stations that aren't going digital on Feb. 17 but don't want to wait until June 12. That would be to help the various call centers. But he also said the commission could ask stations when they planned to transition and use that info to help call centers rather than setting a particular date.

There is $90 million in the economic stimulus package that the FCC can tap into.

Copps said he was interested in getting an update on the number of production lines for DTV-to-analog converter boxes that are up and running and what their capacity is going to be. There has been some suggestion from the consumer electronics industry that there could be converter box shortages, particularly if a lot of people reapply for converter box subsidy coupons, as the date-change bill allows.

Copps said that he expects the commission to issue a rulemaking on consumer education for the stations not pulling the plug Feb. 17, and for implementing the analog night-light program.

http://www.broadcastingcable.com/article/174012-FCC_Stations_Not_Allowed_To_Go_All_Digital_Feb_17_Could_Hit_ Triple_Digits.php

Triple digits?

The government giveth and the government taketh away... but I'm not sure about half of that statement.

Copps said that "dislocation and confusion" are occurring, but that there would have been more of both if the DTV hard date had not been moved from Feb. 17 to June 12 (which Congress voted to do last week).


More "dislocation and confusion" if the date hadn't been moved? So before when 95% of the people knew what was going to happen would have been more confusing than what we have now? Now I'm really confused!

Translated, he is admitting the President screwed up and he is trying to spin as good as he can and he is telling those stations that want to go on the 17th, he has a long memory.

.... Copps said, pointing out that the commission was working with ridiculous deadlines.


so are the stations !!

Ridiculous is right, though ;)

Edit/update -- I have a bad feeling about this regarding Dayton ...

Which reminds me ... for anyone interested, WPTD filed for STA, status date on FCC site of "2/11/09" to begin operating their Post-transition facility beginning Feb 17 (although actually I believe their plan calls to fire up the DT on 16 00:01 EST on Feb 18) on their current analog channel allocation of 16 .... It's an engineering STA form, and I believe the tech info specified matches their post-transition CP ....

I don't think its clear at this point if WBDT is currently planning on having digital on 18(current) or 26(analog+post-transition) on feb 17 analog shut down .. Haven't seen a STA filing from them yet, though, and of course their plans before all this happened were to have the DT on 26 on Feb 18 ....

I have to laugh at one of the stations listed as having terminated their analog service prior to 2/17: KPJR-DT (in the Denver DMA). This is a newly approved digital only station that never had an analog service. They have not been on the air yet because they can't do so until KBDI transitions from their pre-transition channel 38 to post transition channel 13, which KBDI can't do until KRDO does their transition, which neither can do until they get new STA's approved.

This is yet another reason why the delay is a bad move, i.e. it is preventing new stations from going on the air. Of course, with the typical economics of a new station, this delay is probably saving the station money.

I have to laugh at one of the stations listed as having terminated their analog service prior to 2/17: KPJR-DT (in the Denver DMA). This is a newly approved digital only station that never had an analog service. They have not been on the air yet because they can't do so until KBDI transitions from their pre-transition channel 38 to post transition channel 13, which KBDI can't do until KRDO does their transition, which neither can do until they get new STA's approved.

This is yet another reason why the delay is a bad move, i.e. it is preventing new stations from going on the air. Of course, with the typical economics of a new station, this delay is probably saving the station money.

Nope, its costing them BIGTIME......how does a station make money?? From being DARK?? nope, ADVERTISING...if they have built out but cant turn it on, they are LOSING money daily....cost of the tower and equipment alone will kill them.....This delay was stupid, idiotic and shows how assinine our government has become....

("When you have a country full of sheep, pretty soon you will have a government full of wolves"-Benjamin Franklin)

Obama Signs DTV-Delay Bill
President Barack Obama has signed the bill extending the DTV date from Feb. 17 to June 12.
By John Eggerton, Broadcasting & Cable, February 11, 2009 2:58:26 PM MT

President Barack Obama has signed the bill extending the DTV date from Feb. 17 to June 12.

His transition team had called for the date to be moved, and the bill was passed a week ago. But the president had pledged to put bills out for a five-day public comment period, which he did with this bill.

"During these challenging economic times, the needs of American consumers are a top priority of my administration," the president said Wednesday.

"This law, which was crafted in a bipartisan way and passed overwhelmingly in the House and Senate, ensures that our citizens will have more time to prepare for the conversion."

"Millions of Americans, including those in our most vulnerable communities, would have been left in the dark if the conversion had gone on as planned, and this solution is an important step forward as we work to get the nation ready for digital TV. My administration will continue to work with leaders in Congress, broadcasters, consumer groups and the telecommunications industry to improve the information and assistance available to our citizens in advance of June 12.”

http://www.broadcastingcable.com/article/174041-Obama_Signs_DTV_Delay_Bill.php

The FCC is currently vetting those 491 requests to see what stations in vulnerable markets may have to stay on in analog...
But rather than just saying no to stations, the commission may require extra outreach or programming about the transition as something of a quid pro quo for getting to go ahead and pull the plug. "You could have people on the phones, you could have walk-in centers, you could have somebody in the market staying on the air in analog to provide some kind of programming," said Chessen.
Boy, if I were a station owner, I would be so tempted to have equipment troubles with my analog transmitter next week...Allowing stations to stay on until June is one thing, but forcing them to is another matter.


Patty

And this, folks, is 5,000. :)

Anyway, good to hear Obama signed it, so all this hard work isn't for nothing. I'd prefer if the delay had never come up in the first place, but once announced and all this work done, it's better that it happen.

I'm about to head off to my Diff Eq test. I've been working on it during every free moment today unless I was eating or keeping from toasting my brain. Once I get back from that, I might try to take a nap, but I'm afraid that if I do I'll sleep til morning, so I'll probably sit right back down here and start working on the DTR. I have nothing else due for the rest of the week, though I might be working on a group project with my roommate tomorrow afternoon. That shouldn't stop me from making progress on the site! :D

I'll be glad to be back to working on something fun. :)

- Trip

And this, folks, is 5,000. :)

Congratulations!

NashDigie signing off.

"This law, which was crafted in a bipartisan way and passed overwhelmingly in the House and Senate, ensures that our citizens will have more time to prepare for the conversion."
I hope this doesn't overstep the bounds of being too political, but the only thing "bipartisan" about it was that this bill supposedly allowed stations to keep their plans to shut down analog on 2/17. THAT is what got it to a full vote in both houses. And if there's pressure on stations to delay (as it sure feels like) and if the FCC may deny a lot of the good-faith requests to stop it 2/17 according to the rules, then the one thing that made it "bipartisan" is null and void and it wasn't bipartisan at all -- it was bait and switch.

Boy, if I were a station owner, I would be so tempted to have equipment troubles with my analog transmitter next week...Allowing stations to stay on until June is one thing, but forcing them to is another matter.


Patty

One AM station in TX got an STA to be silent because their xmtr "needed a part from Italy" and it would take weeks if not 2 months to get it according to their filing (what a joke)...The FCC granted the request (of course AM radio is a lost cause to the FCC.....a TV station requesting the same would probably be told NO and fined!)

And this, folks, is 5,000. :)
- Trip

I don't get the 5000.

Anyway, I am out of service to finish any last minute updates to FL. Windstream had a major fiber cut and I am on dial up now. They it might not be fixed for days. Wonderful.

Hope I helped even a little bit.

Congrats on the 5000 post mark, Trip. Looks like I'm coming up on the 2k mark. Maybe we both need to get lives....nah, this is more fun :D.

Nope, its costing them BIGTIME......how does a station make money?? From being DARK?? nope, ADVERTISING...if they have built out but cant turn it on, they are LOSING money daily....cost of the tower and equipment alone will kill them.....This delay was stupid, idiotic and shows how assinine our government has become....

("When you have a country full of sheep, pretty soon you will have a government full of wolves"-Benjamin Franklin)

I agree with your sentiments about the delay, and certainly realize that the primary source of income for stations is advertising. However, many stations operate at a loss for a long time when first starting up. Many businesses fail, and that certainly includes television stations. It is possible that the additional costs of being on the air may be more than the advertising income they bring in at first, meaning they will lose more money by being on the air than being dark, at least for a while. But, since they wanted to take a shot in the first place, I'm sure this station and others in the same situation are not happy about the delay.

Also, KPJR will be a religious broadcasting station, and I don't know for sure how the economics work for those types of stations. Since the station is part of a non-profit organization, their primary income may be donations rather than advertising. Obviously being on the air helps to expand the audience who they can appeal to for donations ....

I don't get the 5000.

Anyway, I am out of service to finish any last minute updates to FL. Windstream had a major fiber cut and I am on dial up now. They it might not be fixed for days. Wonderful.

Hope I helped even a little bit.

5,000 posts. Well, now it's over that. :D

Ouch! Fiber cuts are nasty. I've experienced those before both at home and here at school.

You definitely helped a great deal, Piggie. I greatly appreciate it, and thank you! :)

Congrats on the 5000 post mark, Trip. Looks like I'm coming up on the 2k mark. Maybe we both need to get lives....nah, this is more fun :D.

Definitely. :D

- Trip

I'm going through the new 387's, but the current count of stations that have ended analog ops already is at least 225.

I'm going through the new 387's, but the current count of stations that have ended analog ops already is at least 225.

Wow, the FCC with their 190 currently digital only has lost track of 35 stations. :eek: Googling this morning's news after the FCC summary had its amusing headlines, reporters all quoted the same FCC summary but came up with some really odd math. Anywhere from 25% to 40% of stations being digital only by Feb 17. :D

sorry if someone posted this already and I missed it :

From current Main FCC page :


2/11/08
FCC Requires Public Interest Conditions for Certain Analog TV Terminations on February 17, 2009. Certain Stations Must Respond By Friday, February 13, 2009.


Public Notice (word) :

http://hraunfoss.fcc.gov/edocs_public/attachmatch/FCC-09-7A1.doc

PDF :

http://hraunfoss.fcc.gov/edocs_public/attachmatch/FCC-09-7A1.pdf

Appendix :

Excel :

http://hraunfoss.fcc.gov/edocs_public/attachmatch/FCC-09-7A2.xls

Acrobat :

http://hraunfoss.fcc.gov/edocs_public/attachmatch/FCC-09-7A2.pdf

Oops! Almost forgot to mention, the test went better than I thought, but I still don't think I passed it. Oh well.

I've taken the evening off to recover from all that nonsense. Been just floating around on the forum and I chatted with a few folks on 146.76 MHz (ham radio) so that was fun.

I'll be showering soon and then I'll get back to my regularly scheduled website work. :D

EDIT: Thanks for the links, Nitewatchman, I hadn't seen those.

- Trip

PDF :
http://hraunfoss.fcc.gov/edocs_public/attachmatch/FCC-09-7A1.pdf

What a mess. What a big stinking mess. Looking at some of the stations on the list, digital OTA viewers will be shortchanged if the FCC stops them from shutting off analog. Time to let them shut off analog if the station wants to.

Thanks for the post.

The good news is 368 stations are approved. The bad news is for the 123 stations who have to make a showing by Friday, 6pm ET.

It isn't a hard showing ... just "proof" that some sort of nightlight service will be provided by one or more of the stations in the market. Still just one more hurdle to being able to do what all stations have been planning to do for years.

BTW: My market was spared. No full power analog TV after February 17th. Two stations are nightlighting which is probably what saved us.
Correction: Small print. We're not spared. :(

An update from windy Michigan - I'm without power so I won't be able to update MI/OH tonight - will work on it as time and power permits tomorrow hopefully.

You may not want to look at it, Trip, oh me ...

Will it ever end ... If Bill Murray's character Had to go through this in "Groundhog Day", I think he would have gotten to the part at the Gravel pit a lot sooner ....

some "lowlights" from the notice :



..... We have now reviewed the 491 termination notices filed by the stations intending to end analog service on February 17, 2009. We find that 368 of these stations may proceed with their intended termination of analog service on February 17th ......

..... we have identified 123 stations of the 491 intending to terminate analog service on February 17th whose early termination poses a significant risk of substantial public harm. We developed this list of stations by first identifying the markets in which all of the stations would be terminating analog service on February 17, 2009. We also identified markets in which affiliates of all four of the major networks, ABC, CBS, Fox, and NBC, would be terminating analog service, or, in markets that do not have affiliates of all four networks, we determined if all of the major networks broadcasting in those markets would be terminating their analog service on February 17th. We also considered loss of major network service in cities within the larger DMAs. We considered the presence of major networks and their affiliates critical to ensuring that viewers have access to local news and public affairs available over the air because the major network affiliates are the primary source of local broadcast news and public affairs programming. Therefore, even if independent or non-commercial stations remain on the air in these markets, we still considered these areas at risk. The stations and markets that we identified in this analysis are attached in the Appendix.

Accordingly, we hereby reconsider the partial waiver granted by the February 5th Public Notice to those stations listed on the Appendix attached to this Public Notice. These stations are, therefore, not permitted to terminate their analog service on February 17th, unless they comply with the conditions and procedures described below. Any station that was listed in Appendix A to the February 17, 2009 Termination List Public Notice, DA 09-221, and is not listed in the Appendix to this PN, is expected to proceed with termination of its analog service on that date, subject to the conditions previously described in the February 5th Public Notice.

Stations listed in the Appendix to this Public Notice may obtain reinstatement of the waiver necessary for them to terminate analog service on February 17, 2009 by certifying to the Commission, not later than the close of business (6:00 pm EST) on Friday, February 13th, that they will individually undertake the measures specified herein as a means of ameliorating the public interest harms that the termination of their analog service would engender. We also encourage stations in the markets listed in the Appendix to cooperate and undertake the actions on a joint basis. Each station should certify in response to this Public Notice its compliance with the following eight measures. These certifications will reflect that the station is undertaking the action individually or that they have confirmed that another station will do so.

 Ensure that at least one station that is currently providing analog service to an area within the DMA that will no longer receive analog service after February 17, 2009 will continue broadcasting an analog signal providing, at a minimum, DTV transition and emergency information, as well as local news and public affairs programming (“enhanced nightlight” service ) for at least 60 days following February 17, 2009. The local news, public affairs, or other programming may include commercial advertising.

 Ensure that on-air educational information (prior to February 17 and thereafter as part of “enhanced nightlight” service) will include demonstrations of converter box installations, antenna setups, and other helpful information.

 Ensure that enhanced nightlight service concerning the DTV transition or emergency information will be provided in Spanish and English and accessible to the disability community (e.g., silent scrolls or slates do not provide information to the visually impaired, and therefore, broadcast notices must have an aural component, as well as being closed or open captioned).

 Ensure that the DTV educational information, both on-air and through other means, will provide information describing areas that may be losing over-the-air signal coverage temporarily or permanently as the station transitions to digital-only broadcasting. Such information may include detailed maps, listings of affected communities, and instructions on how to assess what type of antenna may be necessary to retain or regain the station’s digital signal, as well as identifying specific locations that will not be able to receive a digital signal regardless of antenna.

 Each station individually or collectively in the market commits to assisting viewers by providing local or toll-free telephone assistance, including engineering support. Such assistance may be provided jointly with other stations, organizations, and businesses in the area.

 Each station alone or together with other stations or local businesses and organizations in the market will provide a location and staff for a consumer “walk-in” center to assist consumers with applying for coupons and obtaining converter boxes, to demonstrate how to install converter boxes, to provide maps and lists of communities that may be affected by coverage issues, and to serve as a redistribution point for consumers who are willing to donate coupons, converter boxes, televisions and for those in need of these items.

 Each station, individually, is complying with the obligation established in the February 5th Public Notice to broadcast a crawl on their analog channel regarding the station’s termination of analog service, for the seven day period from February 10 through the termination of the station’s analog signal on February 17. For the first five days, the crawl must be aired for 5 minutes of every hour of the station’s analog broadcast day, including during primetime. For the final two days, the crawl must be aired for 10 minutes of every hour of the station’s analog broadcast day, including during primetime. Each station will include in the crawl the FCC toll-free number for our Call Center (1-888-CALLFCC, 1-888-225-5322) beginning as soon as possible following the release of this Public Notice.

 Each station will consider and is encouraged to coordinate with and use community resources to provide consumer outreach and support, including in-home assistance.


.... Stations listed in the Appendix that do not certify that they will undertake the actions described above may make an alternative showing to the Commission that extraordinary, exigent circumstances, such as the unavoidable loss of their analog site or extreme economic hardship, require that they terminate their analog service on February 17th. The showing should not exceed five (5) pages, not including attachments. We do not anticipate that many stations will be able to meet the high burden applicable to this showing. Any station electing to make this showing must await a determination by the Commission that its showing is sufficient before terminating analog service.

Thanks for the post.

The good news is 368 stations are approved. The bad news is for the 123 stations who have to make a showing by Friday, 6pm ET.

It isn't a hard showing ... just "proof" that some sort of nightlight service will be provided by one or more of the stations in the market. Still just one more hurdle to being able to do what all stations have been planning to do for years.

BTW: My market was spared. No full power analog TV after February 17th. Two stations are nightlighting which is probably what saved us.
Correction: Small print. We're not spared. :(

So where is the list of the 368 that can shutdown ?

So where is the list of the 368 that can shutdown ?Appendix "A" of the Tuesday release, less stations listed in Appendix "A" of tonight's release.

So where is the list of the 368 that can shutdown ?
Take the appendix A posted yesterday (http://hraunfoss.fcc.gov/edocs_public/attachmatch/DA-09-221A3.pdf) and subtract the 123 on the Appendix posted today (http://hraunfoss.fcc.gov/edocs_public/attachmatch/FCC-09-7A2.pdf). Adjust for the errors in the FCC list. :D

Take the appendix A posted yesterday (http://hraunfoss.fcc.gov/edocs_public/attachmatch/DA-09-221A3.pdf) and subtract the 123 on the Appendix posted today (http://hraunfoss.fcc.gov/edocs_public/attachmatch/FCC-09-7A2.pdf). Adjust for the errors in the FCC list. :D

well - that's a project for tomorrow, unless somebody beats me to it...

Basically ... smile if your stations are in the Tuesday file, frown if they made the Thursday file.

It isn't a hard showing ... just "proof" that some sort of nightlight service will be provided by one or more of the stations in the market. Still just one more hurdle to being able to do what all stations have been planning to do for years.


Ummm .. That's just one of the 8 things those stations must "certify" to FCC that they will do ....

And for Dayton Market, it may be one of the harder ones, as they specify "enhanced" nightlight service, including local news programming ... Given all that would be left would be a TBN station ..... Well, you get the idea ....

Update/correction : Well, I didn't say that quite right ... The 4 stations from Dayton market "on the list" actually planned to nightlighting, but I don't think for 60 days ... I'm not sure about the others, though, but I know WHIO had said they planned on it only until end of Feb, as my understanding is, they had Tower work scheduled to remove the top mounted antenna for analog 7 in March (and replace it with a permanent antenna for digital 41 - the current antenna is side mounted, with significant nulls in the pattern) ...

Basically ... smile if your stations are in the Tuesday file, frown if they made the Thursday file.

the ones from my area on Tuesday's list are CW, MyTV, and a shopping channel.
Not much of a loss...

Nothing interesting on the FCC front tonight. A few new 387s and that's about it.

I'm not going to hang around too much longer, I plan to go to bed soon, but I'm going to try to at least upload the updates you great folks have sent me in the last two days. I'll keep you posted (pun intended).

- Trip

As promised, I put up the latest updates from jtbell, Falcon, Alan, mathwhiz, coyoteaz, and Piggie. I think I'm going to bed now.

- Trip

The big hurdles are the 60 day enhanced nightlight and the staffed help centers.
The required nightlight service is more content than the original planned nightlight.

Which of the stations/groups will be the first to sue?

The big hurdles are the 60 day enhanced nightlight and the staffed help centers.
Indeed. In fact, it seems like it would be just as cheap and much less hassle simply to keep the analog simulcast going for now and then file to terminate under expedited procedures in March or April.

The required nightlight service is more content than the original planned nightlight.
Not the same situation at all, though. That was post-transition. This is early termination.

A very predictable list overall, I must say. One or two surprises, but most of it follows logically from press reports earlier today.

Which of the stations/groups will be the first to sue?

I hope they all sue. This is all just plain crap.

There are, OK were, 5 stations in my DMA scheduled to terminate analog. The sixth, the PBS station is holding off until after pledge (so it appears). The CW affiliate is being allowed to terminate. But, all FOUR of the big-four network affiliates have been told no. They've been told to comply with their idiotic requirements, by Fri the 13th, no less.

If Congress thinks that delaying the shutdown until June 12th is going to make any difference, they are nuts.

This just burns me up.

It won't happen, but I'm actually hoping they all "Certify" to FCC they're going to do everything it says and then actually do it ....

The Denver Post reported on Wednesday that all of the Denver area stations (there are three that have/will shut off analog on 2-17, a religious channel, a PBS whose analog transmitter failed a couple of months ago, and the CW affiliate) purportedly plan to shut off analog before 6-12, probably sometime in April. If a lot of DMA's plan to do the same thing, I wonder if the FCC will extend the rediculous 2-17 shutdown rules to all analog shutdowns planned before 6-12? If not, this seems the way to go.

In Bakersfield all 4 stations filed to terminate analog on 2/17. The ABC, NBC, and CBS affiliates were denied. Only the MYTV affiliate was approved. They are all running crawls and PSAs that they will shut down analog on 2/17. I am guessing that they will appeal and claim that low power FOX affiliate KBFX-CA's continued analog broadcast, as well as all 4 Spanish network's continued low power analog broadcasts, satisfies the conditions to reinstate the waiver necessary to terminate analog service. KBFX-CA is co-owned with CBS affiliate KBAK (Fisher), Telemundo affiliate KKEY-LP is co-owned with NBC affiliate KGET (High Plains), and Azteca affiliate KCKC-LP is co-owned with ABC affiliate KERO (McGraw-Hill). All of those LPs have local news and public affairs programs. I suppose they can run PSAs about the digital transition on them until June or even later. Do you think the FCC will accept the presence of these low power stations as meeting the "enhanced nightlight" requirements?

I wonder if the FCC will extend the rediculous 2-17 shutdown rules to all analog shutdowns planned before 6-12? If not, this seems the way to go.Here is a hint:We intend to ask the networks, station group owners, affiliates and independent stations to examine their plans and the needs and readiness of their viewers so that they can commit to specific dates for analog termination, if appropriate. This coordination and advance planning is essential for stations wishing to transition to all digital on a market-wide basis. Advance planning is critically important so that the Commission, local governments, broadcasters, multichannel video programming distributors (MVPDs), manufacturers, retailers, outreach contractors, organizations and volunteers can coordinate and deploy effective and targeted outreach, as well as assure the availability of coupons, converter boxes, construction crews, and telephone banks. The Commission has worked successfully with all of these groups when we have known, in advance, that stations would transition on a marketwide basis, as in Wilmington, NC, Hawaii, and Chico-Redding, CA. We are considering how we can offer additional in-market outreach support for stations that commit to a date now so that we have time to adjust our deployment and contractor coordination.

Footnote 5 on page 2 of the most recent FCC Public Notice. Looks like Acting Chair Copps wants to phase in DTV market by market. Perhaps someone can explain to him how RF stops immediately at market lines? (Or rather, that it doesn't.)

The Denver Post reported on Wednesday that all of the Denver area stations (there are three that have/will shut off analog on 2-17, a religious channel, a PBS whose analog transmitter failed a couple of months ago, and the CW affiliate)
KWGN didn't file and is not on the FCC's approved termination list. I saw crawls on the Dish feed this past weekend but haven't looked since Monday. Are they still doing crawls?

Do you think the FCC will accept the presence of these low power stations as meeting the "enhanced nightlight" requirements?I doubt it.

A reminder that every remaining station has authority to discontinue their analog signal any time in the final 90 days ... March 14th through June 12th ... as needed to complete digital conversion by giving 30 days notice to the FCC and their viewers. Unless, of course, the FCC changes that procedure on the fly and makes it more difficult to turn off analog as they have with February 17th stations. :)

BTW: My market was spared. No full power analog TV after February 17th. Two stations are nightlighting which is probably what saved us.
Correction: Small print. We're not spared. :(
No market was spared.

The only DMAs that will be newly without full power service or 60 days enhanced nightlight will be St. Joseph, MO, presumably because it is in the Kansas City contour, and Zanesville, OH, presumably because it is in the Columbus contour.

(This is based on a list I compiled for myself earlier this evening while trying to determine which 34 markets the FCC was “scrutinizing”.)

It won't happen, but I'm actually hoping they all "Certify" to FCC they're going to do everything it says and then actually do it ....
I hope they all certify that they wish the FCC to take a long walk off a short pier. That suggestion a few pages back (or was it in the other thread?) of an analog transmitter smashing party on 2/17 certainly becomes more attractive with each passing day as the FCC keeps adding ridiculous hoops to jump through.

I hope this doesn't overstep the bounds of being too political, but the only thing "bipartisan" about it was that this bill supposedly allowed stations to keep their plans to shut down analog on 2/17. THAT is what got it to a full vote in both houses.I believe it is a massive insult to the Republicans to assert that they did not know what they were supporting. I support the February 17 date for the transition; I do not support distorting the reality of what has happened.

The only DMAs that will be newly without full power service or 60 days enhanced nightlight will be St. Joseph, MO, presumably because it is in the Kansas City contour, and Zanesville, OH, presumably because it is in the Columbus contour.

Zanesville doesn't count for these purposes. WHIZ is the sole station, and its analog is already off...and was before this mess even got started. :D Whether it's in the Columbus market's signal contour means nothing, because it's already gone from analog 18.

I hope they all certify that they wish the FCC to take a long walk off a short pier. That suggestion a few pages back (or was it in the other thread?) of an analog transmitter smashing party on 2/17 certainly becomes more attractive with each passing day as the FCC keeps adding ridiculous hoops to jump through.

I've talked to various engineers the past few days and, without naming names, the phrase "baseball bat" is being jokingly tossed around by many of them. (No, I don't believe they'll actually do it, of course, they're just frustrated.)

Oddly enough, the FCC move holds back some network TV over-air service in two markets, Wheeling WV/Steubenville OH, and Parkersburg WV (Marietta OH).

The CBS affiliate in Wheeling, WTRF, runs "Fox Ohio Valley" and "ABC Ohio Valley" on its DT channel. If they're not able to flash cut to 7 digitally, they are stuck (until June or whenever) with a puny STA digital signal on 32.

If they were able to transition on time Tuesday, over-air (digital) availability of the Fox and ABC subchannels would improve markedly. :D

The lone station in Parkersburg, WTAP, runs Fox and MyNetwork TV on digital subchannels.

(Cross-posted from the Charlottesville thread)

The Charlottesville stations should be able to make a pretty successful showing. Basically, if you watch OTA in this market, you should already be digital. WHTJ is, for all intents and purposes, a digital-only station now, and sometimes I wonder if WAHU-CA 27 is even on the air the signal's so weak. So if you want Fox and the primary PBS for the area, you have a converter.

The number of households without a box has to be some tiny number. Between that and the high cable penetration, this shouldn't be hard, as long as the FCC is willing to listen to reason (that's a big if).

- Trip

Eugene, OR got hit.

Two days is not long enough for a station to prove full coverage from LPs, nor would it do any good, the FCC isn't even considering all the full power stations remaining, they are focused on the big 4, and said so. And they are not just requiring broadcasts for an extra 2 months, they are asking for bilingual outreach, and not just via CC. Much more than the standard nightlight. Not just an enhanced nightlight, an enhanced bilingual educational service without financial help from the government.

Meanwhile, it burns me that the FCC is talking about needing more money to do their part in this extension. What happened to the rest of that $19 billion?

Zanesville doesn't count for these purposes. WHIZ is the sole station, and its analog is already off...and was before this mess even got started. :D Whether it's in the Columbus market's signal contour means nothing, because it's already gone from analog 18.
Oops... wasn't paying attention to that column in the spreadsheet.

I notice now that KQTV has an X in that column also, although I don't find an FCC filing to that effect, nor a February 17 termination filing. Indeed, their filings seem quite to the contrary. So their presence on the original list appears to be an error.

So scratch previous speculation. There appear to be no exceptions at all.

(Cross-posted from the Charlottesville thread)

The Charlottesville stations should be able to make a pretty successful showing. Basically, if you watch OTA in this market, you should already be digital. WHTJ is, for all intents and purposes, a digital-only station now, and sometimes I wonder if WAHU-CA 27 is even on the air the signal's so weak. So if you want Fox and the primary PBS for the area, you have a converter.
Sorry, Trip, but I think you’re missing the point.

Basically, the FCC is not going to allow any DMA, or significant part of a DMA, to lose all ABC/CBS/FOX/NBC service unless at least one station in such an area is “certified” to provide “enhanced nightlight” service for 60 days following February 17, where “the enhanced nightlight service will include other programming--at a minimum, local news and public affairs--in addition to DTV transition and emergency information.”

For LP service to qualify as such a nightlight, it would have to be analog, and cover the DMA, which leaves out WAHU-CA, just based on what you write here.

We need to remember that the government doesn’t care if people get a full complement of network stations, they just want everybody to get at least one for purposes of emergency notifications and news, etc. And they will therefore assume that anybody relying on analog TV for such service is not necessarily likely to have a converter to get Fox and PBS, as you suggest.

And this is a perfectly reasonable assumption. I helped one person in downtown Cleveland who told me emphatically that he just wanted to be able to get one station so he could see the news, and he didn’t care which one. He used his new HDTV primarily for DVDs and gaming, and he was disappointed that he couldn’t get any digital signals. (I told him he would probably do better if he switched to a non-amplified antenna, which he did, and that solved his problem.)


The number of households without a box has to be some tiny number. Between that and the high cable penetration, this shouldn't be hard, as long as the FCC is willing to listen to reason (that's a big if).
I don’t see any mention of the number of unready households in the FCC Notice, so unfortunately, I don’t think the FCC is considering that factor at this point.

...I don’t see any mention of the number of unready households in the FCC Notice, so unfortunately, I don’t think the FCC is considering that factor at this point.

I think that's a limitation of Nielsen's data, insufficient sample size. Nielsen data showed only Portland, and they indicated insufficient data for the rest of Oregon. Some Congressional aide undoubtedly took the Portland estimate and applied it to the state population, failing to consider that 40% of Oregon remains 100% analog. Hence the 6.2% unprepared may be more like 3.7%.

Otherwise, I'd agree, if the rural areas are unprepared, we're in trouble. They can't make do with an indoor antenna, and they can't just drive to one of 20 Radio Shacks or a Frys.

NBC29 already told the FCC they'd be nightlighting (albeit at half-power, which is only 3 dB) until the phones stop ringing. I mean that the expanded other crap hopefully won't be as big an issue.

- Trip

The big hurdles are the 60 day enhanced nightlight and the staffed help centers.
The required nightlight service is more content than the original planned nightlight.

Which of the stations/groups will be the first to sue?

After reading the bill and then the FCC's post, it appears they are violating the tone and sense of the bill which allows the stations the option to terminate analog as they planned. A lawsuit should be coming soon. Can you "really sue the government"? The only reason the bill passed was the option to end analog.

After reading the bill and then the FCC's post, it appears they are violating the tone and sense of the bill
I disagree. I think the FCC's interpretation is pretty much dead on, and in line with what Congress expected.

(I told him he would probably do better if he switched to a non-amplified antenna, which he did, and that solved his problem.)

I noticed this effect too. I had shakey, glitchy reception with an amplified antenna. Upon switching to a non-amplified, I got mostly solid signals on all stations. This was before I installed a better antenna in the attic which gives me 93-98 level signals on everything, of course.

It seems counter-intuitive, but I suspect that either a) the signals are too strong and amplifying them causes clipping, b) electrical interference is leaking into the signal via the amplifier's power source, or c) the amplifier is just plain crappy.

All amplified rabbit-ears should have a bypass switch so you can disable the amp in areas that it is not needed, or to prevent clipping the signal on that one strong nearby station.

I hope they all certify that they wish the FCC to take a long walk off a short pier.


I agree completely "in spirit", so to speak ... What I meant was, if they have to put up with this nonsense in order to shut down analog on feb 17 without running into problems later, I hope ALL 123 stations on the list are able to find a way to do so .....


In my area, Ideally, I'm also hoping in Dayton the stations can "cooperate" such that there is only ONE station doing the "enhanced nightlighting" for 60 Days ..... Or, at least cooperate in such a way these stations plans are "disrupted" by this latest nonsense as little as possible. It would be especially great if they could find a way the one (full service) station in the DMA doing the enhanced nightlighting would be the one that hasn't filed for early shut off/was going to continue analog anyway(probably to June 12), WKOI(TBN), so the other stations could all follow what their plans were, but that seems very, very unlikely ....

Anyway, For Dayton, I haven't seen what WDTN or WPTD is saying today yet, but as of Noon the rest, including those on the list are still saying 2/17 analog shut off, including info on WHIO's Noon news -- WHIO is doing a DTV "action week" this week by the way, including such activities as their CE answering DTV questions on a Radio show, and a engineer and one of their News Anchors/reporter going around knocking on doors and giving away/installing Converter boxes for FREE for those who need them ....They are also doing a DTV show tonight at 7pm .....

One element that would affect how stations deal with all of this is the fact that the cost to keep analog on the air varies a lot from station to station. The station I previously worked for was close to worst case in that they have an out of core DTV that required 3 amplifiers to make 1 megawatt ERP on channel 61 through more than 2000 feet of transmission line. The current analog transmitter makes about 86 kW out to get 314 kW ERP on channel 10 with a circular polarized antenna. They are going back to channel 10 when they transition. I think the cost saving will be near 20K a month.

The other end of the spectrum would be a station that already has its final full power DTV transmitter on the air and has a low VHF analog transmitter. For them the cost saving would only be whatever the low V analog transmitter is costing to run. It would be a whole lot less than 20K a month.

If someone must stay on as a night light the second case would make a lot more sense as the station to stay on and would waste a lot less electricity in the process.

Let's suppose that all of the Dayton stations come to the conclusion that they're shutting off analog on 2-17 and if they don't fully comply with the latest FCC nonsense, they'll take that risk.

What is that risk? A fine that might be smaller than their power bill for 4 months? Loss of license? Does the FCC have a "published" list of fines/penalties or do they do impose whatever penalty they want to?

With all of the FCC's recent actions, IMO thay have forgotten to emphasize one important item - accuracy and completeness of PSIP info. In my area, for example, we still have analog 41/digital 40 mapping to 40-1 instead of 41-1 (KRMT). When grandma punches in 41 on her converter box's remote, she'll get nothing and wonder where the channel went. Same is true in my area for analog 33, digital 11 (KQCK). These stations, along with a lot of others that at least remap correctly, provide little or no program guide info either. It would seem that my area isn't the lone exception to compliance to PSIP requirements?

WOWK had its application denied.

What I don't understand is why they even bothered to file as they moved from DT47 to DT13 a couple of weeks ago when the ice storm "damaged" their old DT47 transmitter. So they killed ananlog and fired up their new DT13 transmitter.

http://wowktv.com/digitaltv.cfm?view=faq

I guess the key is that the stations have only to "certify" that they will met the eight requirements that the FCC requires and they can still terminate analog on Feb.17 without waiting for FCC approval. Is there a way we can look on the FCC web site to see if they have filed their certification?
John
sorry if someone posted this already and I missed it :

From current Main FCC page :



Public Notice (word) :

http://hraunfoss.fcc.gov/edocs_public/attachmatch/FCC-09-7A1.doc

PDF :

http://hraunfoss.fcc.gov/edocs_public/attachmatch/FCC-09-7A1.pdf

Appendix :

Excel :

http://hraunfoss.fcc.gov/edocs_public/attachmatch/FCC-09-7A2.xls

Acrobat :

http://hraunfoss.fcc.gov/edocs_public/attachmatch/FCC-09-7A2.pdf

Is there a way we can look on the FCC web site to see if they have filed their certification?
John

Here's what it says about it in the notice, footnote #10 :


Notice to the Commission must be provided electronically through the Commission’s Consolidated Database System (“CDBS”) using the Informal Application filing form. To access the CDBS electronic filing system in order to file a Certification/Alternate Showing: Analog termination on February 17, 2009, go to the Media Bureau’s web site at: http://www.fcc.gov/mb/cdbs.html. Instructions as to how to file these notifications are as follows: After logging into the CDBS, select the last option from main menu “Additional non-form Filings.” From the next menu select “Silent STA/Notification of Suspension.” From the pre-form menu select: “Certification/Alternate Showing: Analog termination on February 17, 2009.” No fee is required.......


Also, for stations that Don't "Certify" they'll do those 8 things, but submit an "alternative showing" -- Regarding financial hardship/etc -- no more than 5 pages not including attachments/etc, footnote 12 Says :


These explanatory filings may also be made using the procedure and form described in footnote 10, above.


Not sure where, or if that "Certification/alternate Showing: analog termination on February 17, 2009" form will show up on line ... If I were to guess, at this point, given it's a "informal filing application form", I'd guess maybe in the stations "correspondance folder" -- The same place the "Notification of Termination of Analog Service by Feburary 17, 2009", forms are, per the filing info in the Feb 5 Public notice ....

Whereever it's at, if it is publicly available online, It will probably be after midnight tonight or tomorrow before any show up ...

Not sure where, or if that "Certification/alternate Showing: analog termination on February 17, 2009" form will show up on line ... If I were to guess, at this point, given it's a "informal filing application form", I'd guess maybe in the stations "correspondance folder" -- The same place the "Notification of Termination of Analog Service by Feburary 17, 2009", forms are, per the filing info in the Feb 5 Public notice ....


That was the same thought I had upon reading that line in the PN.

This is going to be confusing. KEZI (ABC) Eugene - Medford license?? - filed a Legal STA 2/5/09, asking to flash cut to what is currently their analog frequency on Feb. 17. It is marked "granted" 2/10/09 in the Application List. But they are on the list requiring more justification as of yesterday, 2/11/09.

Is this how others are, granted and then rescinded without a formal document?

http://fjallfoss.fcc.gov/cgi-bin/ws.exe/prod/cdbs/forms/prod/cdbsmenu.hts?context=25&appn=101293980&formid=911&fac_num=34406

My guess is that yesterday's pronouncement is a blanket formal notification for all stations listed, especially since the Commission has no choice but to "make it up as they go" this week. Everybody's confused!

I can say that I'm already confused on another point. I've been looking at Iowa filings the last few days. I thought that stations filing to end analog on 2/17 since 2/6 had to file both 387s and "Notification of Termination of Analog Service" But I see some stations such as KWWL and KDSM only filed the latter.

Once we get past 2/17 I'd think it'd get less confusing, but I might be too optimistic.

This is going to be confusing. KEZI (ABC) Eugene - really Medford - filed a Legal STA 2/5/09, asking to flash cut to what is currently their analog frequency on Feb. 17. It is marked "granted" 2/10/09 in the Application List. But they are on the list requiring more justification as of yesterday, 2/11/09.

WJW/8 (Fox) here is almost in the same boat...its STA for post-transition facilities on digital 8 was approved on 2/10. But WJW didn't go ahead and file the new, required silent form, and announced it would be doing the transition in June.

WJW/8 (Fox) here is almost in the same boat...its STA for post-transition facilities on digital 8 was approved on 2/10. But WJW didn't go ahead and file the new, required silent form, and announced it would be doing the transition in June.

I would understand that, with WJW, then.

But KEZI was planning on Feb 17, and had filed the notification of termination of analog service on 2/4/09. In accordance with the new rules, the Station Info link shows a second notification of termination of analog service filed 2/5/09, and it is the correct new form. KEZI also filed Form 387 on 2/5/09, the Application Info link shows it Accepted for Filing 2/6/09. Finally, they filed a legal STA on 2/5/09, and the Application Info shows it "GRANTED" on 2/10/09.

This is going to be confusing. KEZI (ABC) Eugene - Medford license?? - filed a Legal STA 2/5/09, asking to flash cut to what is currently their analog frequency on Feb. 17. It is marked "granted" 2/10/09 in the Application List. But they are on the list requiring more justification as of yesterday, 2/11/09.

Is this how others are, granted and then rescinded without a formal document?
Analog termination approval and STA to use post-transition digital facilities are two different things, probably processed by different people in different departments. The former is a matter of policy, the latter is technical. I don’t think the STA is rescinded so much as rendered moot pending a reinstatement of the waiver for analog termination on the 17th.


WOWK had its application denied.

What I don't understand is why they even bothered to file as they moved from DT47 to DT13 a couple of weeks ago when the ice storm "damaged" their old DT47 transmitter. So they killed ananlog and fired up their new DT13 transmitter.
Yeah, this one is definitely confusing. It appears that WOWK got an emergency STA via email on January 29 to operate post-transition digital facilities. But that STA was not final and never made it into CDBS. Lacking a final STA and approval for analog termination, they apparently thought it necessary to file under the February 5 provisions for termination on February 17, which then put them on the FCC’s February 17 list.

I have no clue what the various parts of the FCC are expecting WOWK to do at this point. It seems unlikely they would be expected to resume analog, but who knows?

Analog termination approval and STA to use post-transition digital facilities are two different things

In the case of this STA, they requested both: terminating analog and then commencing digital on that formerly analog frequency, effective Feb 17. And they approved it five days after Copps put out his well publicized memo.

This is going to be confusing. KEZI (ABC) Eugene - Medford license?? - filed a Legal STA 2/5/09, asking to flash cut to what is currently their analog frequency on Feb. 17. It is marked "granted" 2/10/09 in the Application List. But they are on the list requiring more justification as of yesterday, 2/11/09.

Is this how others are, granted and then rescinded without a formal document?

http://fjallfoss.fcc.gov/cgi-bin/ws.exe/prod/cdbs/forms/prod/cdbsmenu.hts?context=25&appn=101293980&formid=911&fac_num=34406

The FCC evidently likes to use a lot of that famous Kentucky Jelly :eek:.......(Isnt KY the initials for Kentucky?? :D )

In the case of this STA, they requested both: terminating analog and then commencing digital on that formerly analog frequency, effective Feb 17. And they approved it five days after Copps put out his well publicized memo.
They may have mentioned analog termination in passing, but the form they filed was for a legal STA to operate post-transition facilities, and that’s what they were granted, not a silent STA. I believe it would properly be considered contingent on a separate authorization to terminate analog.

I mean, think about it. The decision criteria are completely different, and so the approvals would have to go through different people with different expertise. That's why you have different forms for these things, after all.

They may have mentioned analog termination in passing, but the form they filed was for a legal STA to operate post-transition facilities, and that’s what they were granted, not a silent STA. I believe it would properly be considered contingent on a separate authorization to terminate analog.

I mean, think about it. The decision criteria are completely different, and so the approvals would have to go through different people with different expertise. That's why you have different forms for these things, after all.

Have you read the STA and its attachment? It would be hard to argue that anybody in the TV arm of the FCC was unaware of Copps' new regulations. It would be hard to argue that they missed the point of the request, since it was repeated several times.

Have you read the STA and its attachment?
That would be the one you linked several posts back? Yes, I've read it.

It's a request to transmit digital on channel 9 as opposed to channel 44, which they filed because the February 5 notice specifically reminded them that they had to do that, if they wanted to operate a post-transition facility before the transition, which the February 5 notice properly anticipated to be 23:59 June 12, rather than 23:59 February 17.

That STA request was independent of the February 5 waiver allowing analog termination, and just as independent of the February 11 revocation of that waiver. The STA remains in force if KEZI elects to comply with the February 11 requirements for analog termination, or if KEZI successfully persuades the FCC with a 5 page or less sob story.

It would be hard to argue that anybody in the TV arm of the FCC was unaware of Copps' new regulations. It would be hard to argue that they missed the point of the request, since it was repeated several times.
They didn't miss the point, you did. That request was just one of several that they had to file to fully “transition”, as opposed to simply turning off analog. But if that request were sufficient in and of itself for analog termination, then they wouldn’t have had to also file the “Notification of Termination” form by February 9, would they?

At this point, I don’t know how to make this any clearer. I'm sorry if you don't like it, but it is what it is.

More generally, I know people want to throw stones here, but the FCC is absolutely the wrong target. It is simply an agency full of bureaucrats doing their jobs. Imperfectly at times, to be sure, just like the rest of us, but just doing their jobs, nonetheless.

The people to blame for all this, if that is your inclination, are most definitely the ones you voted for (or not) in November.

More generally, I know people want to throw stones here, but the FCC is absolutely the wrong target. It is simply an agency full of bureaucrats doing their jobs. Imperfectly at times, to be sure, just like the rest of us, but just doing their jobs, nonetheless.

The people to blame for all this, if that is your inclination, are most definitely the ones you voted for (or not) in November.I choose to blame partisan politics and a system that, despite a "bi-partisan compromise" of allowing stations to shut down on February 17th (lack of said compromise could have frozen the bill in the Senate), is being implemented by a partisan Chairman.

The FCC should be absolved of NOTHING. Acting Chairman Copps is part of the problem.

Faced with an ultimatum from the Federal Communications Commission, at least two of Eugene’s four TV stations — NBC affiliate KMTR and CBS affiliate KVAL — will wait until June 12 before making the transition from analog to digital television broadcasting.

ABC affiliate KEZI and FOX affiliate KLSR, however, will go forward with plans to make the transition next week. ...


http://www.registerguard.com/csp/cms/sites/web/updates/7587376-55/story.csp

These stations had quite a bit of online consumer education, and their announcements have been front page, so they are easy to find.

WLOS (ABC / Sinclair) had planned to shut off analog on 2/17, was on the FCC's recent early shutoff list (and not on the Appendix of stations that had not been granted permission to do so). Nevertheless, on the 6PM news tonight, they announced that they would not shut off on 2/17 after all, apparently because the FCC raised an issue about their translators. They ran crawls with a similar announcement during the ABC news which followed.

I haven't been able to find any details yet, either on the WLOS web site (which still says they're going to turn off analog on 2/17) or on the FCC web site.

Thought I'd post this, as I think some are following the Dayton situation here -- Decided to add Cincy Since WSTR is Sinclair given jtbell's post concerning WLOS, and because WPTO was a "first filer" for feb 17 shutdown which has apparently changed their minds ....

I'll update this if/when I get new info anytime soon :

As of 2/13 5:10 PM EST :

Dayton update

WDTN, WHIO, WKEF and WRGT --- All FOUR Dayton Stations on the "123 station list" have filed "Certification/Alternate Showing: Analog termination on February 17, 2009" - Forms which are showing up in their Correspondance folders as of 5:10pm EST 2/13 -- Filing date/Time shown ranges from Feb 12 9pm, to 4:50pm EST 2/13 (an "exhibit 5" is mentioned, on each form but not attached/not currently available for download) --

On Each form, each station (all 4) chose the following option :


The above-referenced station DOES NOT certify to the conditions for analog turn off set forth in the Public Notice, FCC 09-7, released February 11, 2009, and will continue analog service until given FCC authorization (by rule or order) to turn off that service.


Other info :
------------

WKEF Dayton(Sinclair) threw in the towel ... They Also announced on their 2/12 11pm News they would be keeping analog up until June 12.

WRGT Dayton(operated by Sinclair) --- Running a crawl as of 2/13 12:30am which now specifies 6/12 for their analog shut off ... It did say 2/17 last time I saw it ...

WHIO Dayton - 2/13 Article in Local Paper reports a May 3 analog shut off date for them ---

WDTN - 5:50pm EST 2/13 Local News story confirms they will "delay" analog shut off, no specific date was given.

--------------------------------------------------------------------

Dayton Stations "not" on the "123 station" list :



WPTD's STA was GRANTED (http://fjallfoss.fcc.gov/cgi-bin/ws.exe/prod/cdbs/pubacc/prod/app_det.pl?Application_id=1295192) - very quickly! - Filed 2/09, file # with a 2/10 date in it, and GRANTED 2/11/08 -- As of 2/12, 11pm, Their(ThinkTV) website currently says Feb 17 for WPTD, and that FCC granted them permission to move it to 16 ...

Update : Update 2/13, 6:50pm -- This article in Dayton Daily news reports info directly from WPTD personel that they're currently working on Delaying the currently scheduled 2/17 analog shut off(since the other stations aren't shutting down analog), if FCC allows them to do so :

http://www.daytondailynews.com/n/content/oh/story/news/local/2009/02/13/ddn021309dtvweb.html

WBDT, as of 2/12, 1AM Still saying Feb 17, and to "rescan" on Feb 18 in their crawl --Given the "rescan" part, assume they're planning on moving the DT to on 26, and that we should soon presumably, see a STA filing from them -- 26 is their current analog channel, and their post-transition allotment, DTV currently on 18 ...

Update : Update 2/13, 6:50pm -- This article in Dayton Daily news reports info directly from WBDT GM that they're Not going to shut off analog on Feb 17, and are working on setting a new date :

http://www.daytondailynews.com/n/content/oh/story/news/local/2009/02/13/ddn021309dtvweb.html


------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Cincinnati Update

WPTO - ThinkTV website as of 2/12, 11pm says WPTO will shut off analog "sometime after" Feb 17 ... Someone who would know posted in Dayton thread that it's going to be June 12 for WPTO ... As noted in a recent update to Trip's list, they filed a new 387, although I don't think the change in their plans is necessarily clear from it ....

WSTR - (sinclair) -- 2/12 11:41PM crawl still says they're going to shut off analog Feb 17 ...

South Bend IN
WSBT and WSJV's STAs to move their digital to their analog channels have both been granted

WSBT 22 30 22 Accepted 2/3 Granted 2/9 http://fjallfoss.fcc.gov/cgi-bin/ws.exe/prod/cdbs/forms/prod/prefill_and_display.pl?Application_id=1292272&Service=DS&Form_id=911&Facility_id=73983
WSBT, INC. HEREBY REQUESTS SPECIAL TEMPORARY AUTHORITY FOR WSBT-DT TO COMMENCE DIGITAL OPERATION ON CH. 22 ON THE FEB. 17, 2009 DATE SPECIFIED IN ITS MODIFIED DIGITAL CP (FILE NO. BMPCDT-20080620ABV) IN THE EVENT THAT THE TRANSITION TO DIGITAL TELEVISION IS DELAYED. SINCE WSBT-TV NOW BROADCASTS ON CHANNEL 22 AND WILL CEASE ANALOG OPERATIONS ON FEBRUARY 17, GRANT OF THIS REQUEST WILL NOT RESULT IN ANY SIGNIFICANT INTERFERENCE TO OPERATING FULL-POWER TELEVISION STATIONS.

WSJV 28 58 28 Accepted 1/30 Granted 2/9 http://fjallfoss.fcc.gov/cgi-bin/ws.exe/prod/cdbs/forms/prod/prefill_and_display.pl?Application_id=1292058&Service=DS&Form_id=911&Facility_id=74007
THE STATION SEEKS SPECIAL TEMPORARY AUTHORIZATION ('STA') TO MOVE TO ITS POST-TRANSITION DIGITAL CHANNEL EARLY ON OR ABOUT 12:00:01 PM FEBRUARY 17, 2009 (ON JANUARY 16, 2009, THE STATION NOTIFIED THE FCC THAT IT WOULD TERMINATE ANALOG SERVICE ON OR ABOUT NOON ON FEBRUARY 17, 2009). THE STATION WILL CEASE OPERATION ON ITS PRE-TRANSITION DIGITAL CHANNEL SIMULTANEOUSLY WITH THE COMMENCEMENT OF OPERATION ON ITS POST-TRANSITION DIGITAL CHANNEL PURSUANT TO THE INSTANT STA. VIEWERS WILL EXPERIENCE NO LOSS OF SERVICE IN THE TRANSITION FROM PRE-TRANSITION TO POST-TRANSITION DIGITAL CHANNELS.

That would leave WNDU (16 42 42) as the only station in the market that would be able to "nightlight" for 60 days. I have not seen the Friday the 13th certifications required by the three stations yet, but if the stations work together we'll be done next Tuesday (other than WNDU's currently unapproved maximization application that would move their channel 42 digital to the top of the taller channel 16 analog tower).

Crawls and other advertising is still running ALL focusing on February 17th.

WKEF Dayton(Sinclair) threw in the towel ... They Just announced on their 11pm News they would be keeping analog up until June 12.


Remember, Sinclair split in Columbus - ABC affiliate WSYX is going June 12, Fox affiliate WTTE is going February 17.

Maybe WRGT will still go early.

Does having one analog "big Four" affiliate help ensure the others in Dayton will get the OK to switch?

Remember, Sinclair split in Columbus - ABC affiliate WSYX is going June 12, Fox affiliate WTTE is going February 17.

Maybe WRGT will still go early.

Does having one analog "big Four" affiliate help ensure the others in Dayton will get the OK to switch?

Well, rats --- Just checked and WRGT is running crawl with 6/12/09 date for their shutdown ... I was going to switch to their 12AM repeat of their 10pm news on their "myTV/ThisTV subchannel, to see if they announced it and ran the same piece with one of their engineers, but got busy with something else and just switched over there to monitor ...

By the way -- There is also the following, which might be something else of interest, here ...

Sinclair Also owns/operates W66AQ Dayton -- A LP translator for WSTR Cincinnati -- Why in the world would they have that ? Well, The "history" here is that WSTR Back in the early 80's was WBTI, which ran the "ONTV", "HBO like" Subscription TV service -- "Scrambled" so to speak, OTA ... AT that time, They had a shorter stick, and used W66AQ to cover some parts of Dayton(which sits in a valley) with "OnTV" service ... You'll still occasionally come across the hi-UHF or single channel Yagi's on roof that their installers used ...

Ok, so why am I going through all that ?

Well, They actually have a CP (they filed displacement app) to MOVE W66AQ to 22 after analog shut off via "repurposing" WKEF analog current facilities!

If they use it, The coverage will be MUCH better than is currently the case for W66AQ ...

It's a bit "hidden" on FCC site/Doesn't show up in TVQuery because WKEF is currently on 22 in Dayton ...

Here's some of the info on it :

http://fjallfoss.fcc.gov/cgi-bin/ws.exe/prod/cdbs/pubacc/prod/app_det.pl?Application_id=1125566

The current W66AQ facilities has a directional antenna pattern such that they literally only squirt about 8 watts in my direction ... Nevertheless, I can *occasionally* receive them(well barely if I remove some splitters and switch some things around), and last time I did, they were actually running WRGT's "MYN-TV/This TV" on it rather than WSTR ...

The authorization specifies the New callsign as "W22DE" and specifies the tech info you'd usually see in TVquery -- It's for 54KW ERP using WKEF's current, top mounted antenna (non-DA) :

http://fjallfoss.fcc.gov/prod/cdbs/pubacc/Auth_Files/1125566.pdf

-------------

Since I first heard about that, I've thought it was a good idea, as IF they use it, I suspect it would provide pretty good analog LP service, and VERY good digital LP service at some point ... Oh -- WKEF digital is not actually using WKEF's stick, I don't think ... Instead, it's on WRGT's stick, which "for DTV" they modifed with a crossmember at top - there are three visable masts, and according to the coordinate info on FCC site, WBDT+DT, WRGT+DT and WKEF-DT are on it ....

Note: Dayton actually also has several other Analog LP's --- WRCX-LP 40 (ION beginning not that long ago), WWRD-LP 32 (Gospel Music channel), and in Springfield, W20CL - TBN LP translator (don't know why they need it with WKOI - I get WKOI and TWO TBN TRanslators here - W20CL (weak) and W36DG Cincinnati ... WRCX-LP was recently granted a CP to increase power a bit and with a higher antenna, I *think* on WKEF's stick ... W20CL has a digital companion channel CP (24), W36DG has a digital Flash cut CP ... I've seen No digital filings yet from WRCX-LP or WWRD-LP , but WRCX-LP going digital, with them now ION, might be a good idea ....

Remember, Sinclair split in Columbus - ABC affiliate WSYX is going June 12, Fox affiliate WTTE is going February 17.

Maybe WRGT will still go early.

Does having one analog "big Four" affiliate help ensure the others in Dayton will get the OK to switch?It's believed that's what happened here in Cedar Rapids-Waterloo, IA. Initially the ABC, CBS, Fox and NBC stations all wanted to go on Feb. 17, and none were willing to "nightlight" their analog. Since the FCC announced its "early" termination rules, the ABC station has changed its mind and will wait until 6/12, and the Fox and CBS stations have agreed to "nightlight."

No Cedar Rapids-Waterloo stations are on the "denial" list.

The FCC has granted the request for Special Temporary Authority (STA) to KFTY in Santa Rosa, CA, to move their digital operation to their post-transition channel 32.

http://fjallfoss.fcc.gov/cgi-bin/ws....ion_id=1294628

Calavaras has posted a coverage map showing what the signals for all three stations on channel 32 are going to look like for the next four months:

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/attachment.php?attachmentid=133167&d=1234322204

KFTY and KION are digital; KMTP from Sutro Tower is analog.

Larry
SF

The FCC should be absolved of NOTHING. Acting Chairman Copps is part of the problem.

I've tried to avoid political commentary since it is rather OT, but I have to agree.

I am trying to get the spreadsheet up to date, but work and sleep keep getting in the way!

I have reviewed the Form 387's, up to 2/12. I am now going through the FCC analog end list to compare it with what I have and am about half way done. Then I need to go through the FCC exception list and then figure out which stations are fighting it.

The current spreadsheet update shows the following, but the 3rd line is very rough right now:

# 1067: operating Post-Transition facilities
# 169: with maximized Construction Permits but otherwise ready (included above)
# 660: to end analog operations early (before 6/12/09)
# 231: have already ended (or will not commence) analog operations (included above)

At least Monday is a holiday, though I will be at the office for part of the day. I hope to know what is going on by 2/17. I'm sure I'm not the only one... :D

At least Monday is a holiday, though I will be at the office for part of the day. I hope to know what is going on by 2/17. I'm sure I'm not the only one... :D

Question: Will the newly required forms that are supposed to be filed by close of business today show up in CDBS late tonight? Or with Monday being a federal holiday, will they not show up until (gulp) Tuesday???

I have reviewed the Form 387's, up to 2/12. I am now going through the FCC analog end list to compare it with what I have and am about half way done. Then I need to go through the FCC exception list and then figure out which stations are fighting it.
...
# 231: have already ended (or will not commence) analog operations (included above)
If you could up with a list of the stations that you show as shut down in your 231 count, versus the 190 the FCC said were shut down by early this week that would be interesting. Is the FCC list that riddled with errors or are they ignoring newer stations that never had a analog broadcast?

Good luck with figuring this all out. With a 3 day holiday weekend coming up, will the FCC post a final list of the stations they denied the filing for analog shutdown before Tuesday, Feb. 17??

I was just checking for forms about certifying they meet the new requirements, and one that was filed today showed up already. (For WRGT, filed today at 10:23 AM).

I was just checking for forms about certifying they meet the new requirements, and one that was filed today showed up already. (For WRGT, filed today at 10:23 AM).

And it says:
The above-referenced station DOES NOT certify to the conditions for analog turn off set forth in the Public Notice, FCC 09-7, released February 11, 2009, and will continue analog service until given FCC authorization (by rule or order) to turn off that service.

Providence RI stations WPRI and WJAR are still running crawls on their analog signals saying turnoff on Feb 17.
John

I have no clue what the various parts of the FCC are expecting WOWK to do at this point. It seems unlikely they would be expected to resume analog, but who knows?
IMHO West Virginia Media Holdings will provide the 5 page sob story for both WOWK and WTRF. If the FCC doesn't accept their sob story it won't accept anyone's.

Note: The list below has been sorted by what looks like the discrepancy, see post #2763

There are 109 discrepancies: the FCC has 34 not on Falcon's spreadsheet, and Falcon has 75 not on the FCC spreadsheet, leaving net 41 more on Falcon's, which is the 190 vs. 231 count.

The theory that the FCC only counted shutdowns seems reasonable. I don't know the data so I'm not even going to try to figure out the why of these differences. But here they are for anybody who wants to look more closely. If the mods don't want it here, it will be gone. :)

An entire line fits my screen, but it may wrap for others. But since Falcon's notes are clues, I included them. Sort (I think) is State, Spreadsheet, City.


Spreadsheet... State... City... Call Sign... Network Falcon's Notes/FCC Licensee

FALCON AK ANCHORAGE NEW No analog - CP expired for analog 9 in 2007
FALCON AL MOBILE WDPM ind. No analog
FALCON AL MONTGOMERY WBIH ind. No analog - Station flash cut to DT in 2006
FCC AL DOTHAN WTVY CBS GRAY TELEVISION LICENSEE, LLC
FCC AL Montgomery WNCF ABC CHANNEL 32 MONTGOMERY LLC
FALCON AR HOT SPRINGS KVTH rlg No analog - as of 2/9/09
FALCON AR LITTLE ROCK KETS PBS No analog - as of 1/25/09
FALCON AR LITTLE ROCK KVTN rlg No analog - as of 2/9/09
FALCON AR MONROE KETZ PBS No analog
FALCON AZ FLAGSTAFF KCFG a-one No analog - as of 2/7/09 - due to equipment failure
FALCON AZ TUCSON KTTU MyN No analog - silent as of 1/22/09 - had been at 10% as of 10/18/08 due to equipment damage
FALCON CO COLORADO SPRINGS KVSN No analog
FALCON CO DENVER KBDI PBS No analog - as of 1/5/09 - due to equipment damage
FALCON CO FARMINGTON KRMU PBS No analog
FALCON CO GRAND JUNCTION KRMJ PBS No analog - dark as of 12/31/08 due to equipment failure
FCC CO COLORADO SPRINGS KKTV CBS GRAY TELEVISION LICENSEE, LLC
FALCON CT HARTFORD WEDY PBS No analog - antenna failed on 7/31/05, was on 65. CPTV does not plan to reconstruct the analog facility.
FALCON FL DESTIN WFBD a-one No analog
FALCON FL GAINESVILLE WFXU CW No analog - as of 8/4/08
FALCON FL ORLANDO WBCC PBS No analog - due to equipment failure, not to be repaired
FALCON FL TALLAHASSEE WTLF CW No analog
FALCON FL TAMPA WWSB ABC No analog - as of 2/1/09
FALCON FL WEST PALM BEACH WHDT ind. No analog
FCC FL FORT WALTON BEACH WAWD IND BEACH TV PROPERTIES, INC.
FCC FL PANAMA CITY WJHG-TV NBC GRAY TELEVISION LICENSEE, LLC
FCC FL PENSACOLA WHBR IND CHRISTIAN TELEVISION OF PENSACOLA/MOBILE, INC.
FCC FL ST. PETERSBURG WTOG CW CBS OPERATIONS INC.
FCC FL Tampa WUSF-TV PBS UNIVERSITY OF S. FLORIDA
FCC FL TICE WRXY-TV REL WEST COAST CHRISTIAN TELEVISION, INC
FALCON GA TALLAHASSEE WSWG CBS No analog - ended on 1/30/07, was on 44, ended due to equipment failure and cost to replace
FALCON GA TALLAHASSEE WTLH FOX No analog - as of 1/19/09
FALCON GU AGANA KGTF PBS No analog - as of 1/23/09
FALCON IA CEDAR RAPIDS KWKB CW No analog - as of 2/6/09 - due to equipment failure
FALCON IA DES MOINES KDMI MyN No analog
FALCON ID IDAHO FALLS NEW No analog - not to be constructed
FALCON IL DAVENPORT NEW No analog
FCC IL QUINCY WTJR IND CHRISTIAN TELEVISION NETWORK, INC.
FALCON IN INDIANAPOLIS WCLJ tbn No analog - as of 11/19/08
FALCON IN INDIANAPOLIS WDTI day No analog - as of around 1/26/09
FALCON KS GARDEN CITY KDCK PBS No analog
FALCON KS GOODLAND KWKS PBS No analog
FALCON KS TOPEKA KSQA No analog - analog facility not built, was to be on 22
FALCON KS WICHITA KDCU No analog
FCC KS WICHITA KAKE-TV ABC GRAY TELEVISION LICENSEE, LLC
FALCON KY BOWLING GREEN WBKO ABC No analog - as of 12/7/08
FALCON KY BOWLING GREEN WKYU PBS No analog - as of 12/19/08 - due to equipment failure
FALCON LA NEW ORLEANS KGLA telem No analog - station began broadcasting 6/05/07 as DTV only
FALCON MA PROVIDENCE WLWC CW No analog - as of 12/9/08
FALCON MD HAGERSTOWN WJAL ind. No analog - as of 1/15/09 - fire destroyed analog transmitter building
FCC MD HAGERSTOWN WHAG-TV NBC NEXSTAR BROADCASTING, INC.
FALCON ME BANGOR WMEB PBS No analog - as of 1/11/09
FALCON ME BANGOR WMED PBS No analog - as of 1/11/09
FALCON ME PORTLAND WCBB PBS No analog - as of 1/11/09
FALCON ME PORTLAND WMEA PBS No analog - as of 1/11/09
FALCON MN CROOKSTON KCGE PBS No analog
FALCON MN DULUTH KCWV No analog - KCWV to commence operations on digital only
FALCON MN HIBBING WRPT PBS No analog
FALCON MN RURAL MN KRWF ABC No analog - as of 10/22/08 - due to equipment failure
FALCON MO JEFFERSON CITY KRBK ind. No analog
FCC MO St. Joseph KQTV ABC NEXSTAR BROADCASTING, INC.
FALCON MS JACKSON WWJX No analog - analog facilities not to be constructed
FALCON MS MEMPHIS NEW No analog - analog not to be constructed
FCC MT BUTTE KTVM NBC BLUESTONE LICENSE HOLDINGS INC.
FCC MT KALISPELL KCFW-TV FOX BLUESTONE LICENSE HOLDINGS INC.
FALCON NC CANTON WUNW PBS No analog
FCC NC MANTEO WSKY-TV IND SKY TELEVISION, L.L.C.
FALCON ND DEVILS LAKE KMDE PBS No analog
FCC ND FARGO KFME PBS PRAIRIE PUBLIC BROADCASTING, INC.
FCC ND FARGO KVRR FOX RED RIVER BROADCAST CO., LLC
FCC ND JAMESTOWN KJRR FOX RED RIVER BROADCAST CO., LLC
FCC NE NORFOLK KXNE-TV PBS NEBRASKA EDUCATIONAL TELECOMMUNICATIONS COMMISSION
FALCON NM FARMINGTON KOFT ABC No analog
FCC NM ROSWELL KRPV N/A PRIME TIME CHRISTIAN BROADCASTING, INC
FALCON NV NORTHERN NV KWNV NBC No analog - as of 7/1/08 - unable to fund operations - unknown when/if analog operations will return
FALCON NY ALBANY WYPX ion No analog - was previously on 55, but ended on 9/28/07 to make way for MediaFLO
FALCON NY ELMIRA WFBT No analog
FALCON NY POUGHKEEPSIE WTBY tbn No analog - as of 10/1/08
FCC NY ELMIRA WENY-TV ABC LILLY BROADCASTING, L.L.C.
FALCON OH TOLEDO WBGU PBS No analog - as of 12/15/08
FALCON OK TULSA KDOR tbn No analog - as of before 1/30/09
FALCON PA ALLENTOWN WLVT PBS No analog - as of 2/1/09
FALCON PA SCRANTON WOLF FOX No analog - as of 1/19/09
FCC PA ERIE WJET-TV ABC NEXSTAR BROADCASTING, INC.
FALCON SC FLORENCE WMBF NBC No analog
FALCON SC FLORENCE WPJT No analog
FALCON SD RAPID CITY KPSD PBS No analog - as of 12/3/08
FCC SD MITCHELL KDLV-TV NBC RED RIVER BROADCAST CO., LLC
FCC SD RAPID CITY KNBN NBC RAPID BROADCASTING COMPANY
FALCON TN CHATTANOOGA WDSI FOX No analog - as of 1/19/09
FALCON TN MEMPHIS WTWV rlg No analog
FALCON TN MEMPHIS (NEW) PBS No analog
FCC TN MURFREESBORO WHTN IND CHRISTIAN TELEVISION NETWORK, INC.
FALCON TX WACO KWBU PBS No analog - as of 2/3/09 due to equipment failure
FCC TX ABILENE KXVA FOX SAGE BROADCASTING CORPORATION
FCC UT SALT LAKE CITY KUTV CBS SLC TV LICENSEE CORP.
FCC UT ST. GEORGE KUSG CBS SLC TV LICENSEE CORP.
FALCON VI CHARLOTTE AMALIE WZVI ABC No analog - digital only satellite of WSVI, never had a analog channel
FCC VI CHARLOTTE AMALIE WVXF CBS STOREFRONT TELEVISION
FALCON WA SEATTLE KHCV azt No analog - due to equipment failure, not to be repaired
FCC WA SPOKANE KAYU-TV FOX MOUNTAIN LICENSES, L.P.
FALCON WI WAUSAU WTPX ion No analog
FCC WI PARK FALLS WLEF-TV PBS STATE OF WISCONSIN - EDUCATIONAL COMMUNICATIONS BOARD
FALCON WV HUNTINGTON WOWK CBS No analog - as of 1/29/09
FALCON WY CHEYENNE KQCK ABC No analog as of 6/27/08 due to equipment failure, STA req't to remain silent
FALCON WY JACKSON KBEO ind. No analog - off the air since 9/24/08, request to remain off the air
FALCON WY RURAL WY KCWC PBS No analog - as of 2/6/09 - due to equipment failure
FALCON WY RURAL WY KFNR FOX No analog - as of 10/12/08
FCC WY CHEYENNE KDEV ABC, RTN DENVER BROADCASTING, INC.
FCC WY CHEYENNE KGWN-TV CBS SAGAMOREHILL BROADCASTING OF WYOMING/N COLORADO, LLC