The official final DTV Table Of Allotments/channel change thread [Text View] - Page 15

foxeng

05-13-09, 02:09 PM

DTV NOTES
Lake: 3.5 Million Still Not Ready For DTV Switch
Worried about vulnerable populations, FCC prepared to handle 200,000 in-home box installations
By John Eggerton -- Broadcasting & Cable, 5/13/2009 10:34:50 AM MT

"Yes, June 12 is Congress' final answer," said FCC DTV transition coordinator William Lake, in a status report to the commissioners 30 days out from the DTV transition date.

Lake warned that 3.5 million people had still not taken the actions necessary to avoid losing access to their TV signal, saying many of those were in the most vulnerable populations, including the elderly, low income, disabled minority and rural areas.

Conveying a sense of urgency, Lake told the commissioners that the key was doing everything possible so that those viewers did not lose their, "only link, in some cases, to news and the world at large."

That message came in a DTV status report during the commission's public meeting Wednesday.

FCC staffers and NTIA DTV coupon box program coordinator Bernie McGuire-Rivera outlined the steps the FCC and NTIA are taking to convey that urgency and help those populations get ready.

That includes the planned national soft analog plug-pulling test on May 21, which the FCC says NAB and the networks, station groups, cable and satellite operators will be participating in.

Lake said the FCC is prepared to handle over 200,000 in-home installations of converter boxes. The FCC call center will be ready to ramp up to 4,000 operators and can now handle calls in about 100 languages.

He said that the FCC has issued 46 contracts for assistance programs, 21 for in-home installations, 13 for in-home expert advice, and 12 for walk-in help centers. Firefighters will pitch in and help in areas not covered by the contracts. AmeriCorps volunteers and FCC boots on the ground continue their outreach efforts as well.

The FCC is also starting a media push, particularly to ethnic media, to get the word out. Acting FCC Chairman Michael Copps gave a shout out to trade press for their coverage of the transition, but said he wished the national media were doing more on the story.

McGuire-Rivera said NTIA was also ramping up its media effort, including both earned and paid media. She said NTIA had started advertising on buses in 22 cities because lower-income populations used buses more often. She said that NTIA had been avoiding paid advertising because it was expensive, but was not doing more paid advertising with ethnic media.

She also said that NTIA had mobile assistance centers (vans) and booths in 24 cities, saying that in the DTV "search and rescue" phase, the vans were the ambulances.

Commissioner Jonathan Adelstein joked that he kind of liked the idea of seeing the ads on buses because they "go slower than NASCARs and crash less often," a reference to the sponsorship of a DTV transition-themed race car under former FCC Chairman Kevin Martin.

Copps praised McGuire-Rivera for NTIA's having cleared out the converter box coupon waiting list, and said that new Commerce Secretary Gary Locke had "thrown himself" into the effort, saying that when Copps had called him the day before he had been told he was busy taping DTV spots.

Copps echoed his sentiment that the Feb. 17 transition date would have been a disaster and thanked the president and Congress for moving the date.

He said there would still be disruptions, citing some people who will procrastinate and others who will have reception problems no matter what they did to prepare because of the different propagation characteristics of digital or the move of transmitters. "Not all problems will be resolved between now and June 12," he said, "and candor compels us to so inform affected viewers."

For one thing, the FCC has mandated that stations who lose more than 2% of their analog viewership in the transition to digital inform their viewers of that fact.

"I assure you of one thing," Copps said. "The FCC's commitment does not end at the converter box or on June 12. We will be working just as hard in the days and weeks following June 12."

http://www.broadcastingcable.com/article/232356-Lake_3_5_Million_Still_Not_Ready_For_DTV_Switch.php

foxeng

05-13-09, 02:10 PM

LPTV NOTES
NTIA Launches Low Power Television and Translator Digital Upgrade Program
$44 million available for low-power stations making digital transition
By John Eggerton -- Broadcasting & Cable, 5/13/2009 9:36:31 AM MT

The National Telecommunications & Information Administration has announced the launch of the Low Power Television and Translator Digital Upgrade Program (http://www.broadcastingcable.com/common/jumplink.php?target=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.ntia.doc.gov%2Flptv%2Fu pgradeabout.html).

NTIA has $44 million available to help low-power TV stations make the transition to digital. Those stations were not required to pull the plug on analog on June 12 along with full-power stations.

The program reimburses licensees for equipment upgrades and replacement equipment.

Stations can get up to $6,000 to modify existing analog equipment or up to $20,000 to replace equipment, starting with either nonprofits or those serving rural areas with fewer than 10,000 viewers.

Stations that meet either of those priority designations have until July 13 to apply. The rest of the stations can then apply.

NTIA already has a program under which low-powers could get $1,000 for a device that converts a digital signal to analog.

http://www.broadcastingcable.com/article/232337-NTIA_Launches_Low_Power_Television_and_Translator_Digital_Up grade_Program.php

Piggie

05-13-09, 02:56 PM

Upper VHF is going to be too crowded to effectively maximize the stations I'm afraid. Where are 52-59 when we need them most?

There will be between 57 and 77 stations on each upper VHF channel. The UHF range is 22 to 48. With the longer range of VHF, it further complicates the band.

The irony seems to be that more power is needed up close vs. distance for VHF, but trying to use rabbit ears has a lot to do with it. However, as I have mentioned too often, what's an indoor bound antenna viewer to do? Hang a 5' boom antenna from the ceiling?

The "hidden" transition may be more problematic than the "real" one.

I have been saying this now for about a month Falcon. I could agree with you more! The secret change will be the cuts back to VHF.

Channel 52-59 are really needed. If this is where people like Sprint are putting their G4 network, most people will end up loosing. Sprint doesn't cover much anyway. Even if I am wrong I am sick of the next G level, and no one is building towers anymore for cells.

I could go on and on why the 50 where a mistake to take away from OTA. Translators, crowding in the NE, relieve the VHF crowding.

The VHFs realized they needed to raise power to fill in their contour, in particular those on rabbit ears and those on the deep fringe (like me). I am in the contour of 2 NBCs of which neither come in reliably and both are or going to raise power. The noise on VHF was not expected. Another reason they raised power.

This is all good till the sun sets. Then............... garbage. Unless you live within 30 miles or so of these VHFs, in many places there is another VHF on the same channel. So even if you are barely within a contour, the co-channel rears it's head most nights.

I used to watch RF 12 and 7 out of Jacksonville FL for decades here. There wasn't anyone on those channels for hundreds of miles. Now all three Jax VHFs have a co-channel in Tampa. I am 61 miles from Jacksonville, and 115 from Tampa. And I am inside, though barely barely the Jacksonville contours. Doesn't help at night, as that is too close for Gulf Coast nightly skip. On top of that they assigned a low power 7 about 25 miles south of me! I am in a null, but all this RF just raises the noise floor.

So the increased power in the day has hurt things at night. The same team that designed the Space Shuttle must have figured these new rules for allowing high band VHF so danged close together.

Add to that the lie about how great subchannels work, and it's a mess now.

========

Yes that is the other problem Luminance and I were talking about in the Orlando thread. What do you use for VHF indoor? Rabbit ears is about it. Silver Sensor could come out with a VHF version with rotating lights so it looks like a disco ball or doubles as a ceiling fan when not on a station.

I promise, June 13th is going to be very interesting indeed. I bet threads get swamped. Maybe. Time will tell.

If you read the Springfield MO thread it looks like it wasn't a big deal when their PBS switched to VHF in April. But if you know people there or read the local BBS type forums there are a lot of people that lost signal. The person I know there best lives in a trailer, and recieved PBS when they were on UHF fine. Now nothing. She had a UHF only amplified antenna. I told her go buy rabbit ears with a loop like the Radio Shack Budget antenna. Her UHF went up by 10 points (overload or poor antenna) and now she sees PBS on VHF but it's only watchable some days, some times, but not predictably watchable.

We will see on June 13th.....................

Piggie

05-13-09, 03:00 PM

Piggie

05-13-09, 03:03 PM

DTV Notes
Survey: Viewers Report Better Picture Across All Channels After Getting Converter Box
According to NAB, 47% of respondents have seen "major improvement" in reception
By John Eggerton -- Broadcasting & Cable, 5/11/2009 8:39:29 AM MT

Three quarters of over-the-air analog viewers polled said they received a better picture across all their channels after getting a digital converter box.

That is according to a study conducted by SmithGeiger and commissioned by the National Association of Broadcasters. NAB declined to make the survey available and had not returned an e-mail and phone call at press time to explain why.

According to NAB, the study found that 47% of respondents said they had seen a "major improvement" in TV reception. In addition, 54% said they were receiving more channels while only 8% said they were receiving fewer.

The study was a phone poll of 1,080 households (1080 is the number of lines of resolution in one format of high-definition television) between March 26 and April 8.

All viewers without cable or satellite or a digital TV set will need a converter box to watch full-power TV after the June 12 hard date.

http://www.broadcastingcable.com/article/231974-Survey_Viewers_Report_Better_Picture_Across_All_Channels_Aft er_Getting_Converter_Box.php

I would love to see the demographics of who was called. All you would have to do is lean toward urban areas to get better results of the transition. Rural people like me are loosing more channels I am sure than urban customers.

Piggie

05-13-09, 03:08 PM

Well, the Kinex guy just left. It's the first time anyone who's come to this house from Kinex has been competent. Heck, he was better than competent--he was great!

He went up on the roof and when he unhooked the connector, water came rushing out of it. He decided to replace the whole piece of coax between the antenna and the radio. Put that in, signal went right back to where it should have been. He then showed us the spare antenna he brought. It was rated at 17 dB whereas ours was 13 dB. We decided to go for it; replaced the antenna as well. Signal went from -78 to -75, a full 3 dB higher than it has ever been.

Short version: I'm back in action! =)

- Trip

So what antenna are you running at Dad's house? I can guess from the picture but it's better to ask.

Trip in VA

05-13-09, 03:48 PM

Piggie

05-13-09, 03:48 PM

The Hidden Transition

Attached is a list of stations that are currently on UHF for DTV, but will move to VHF. Of course, there are other factors to consider, such as HAAT, etc., but some of these stations may find their new signal doesn't quite match what they once had.

Now, the FCC doesn't require these stations to warn viewers of these impending band changes? That rule only applies for analog to DTV band changes, right? ...vs. DTV to DTV band changes.

The delay will probably have made this problem worse as more viewers have had time to get accustomed to the existing signals.

Falcon, I looked at your pdf closely. And I understand you not including stations that have already cut to VHF, but many have without resolution for their viewers. WJCT was 270 KW Peak and has gone to 18 KW Avg. WJXX is across the street from them, both 300 m but has a stronger signal. It's either their better antenna or that dumb move to give a ch7 25 miles south of me. Hard to tell.

Speaking of your PDF, I hope the two Tampa FL stations keep that power! Both of them potentially interfer with my Jax FL reception. It seems in general the PBS stations around here in FL are all in bad financial shape. So I am betting and hoping WEDU doesn't raise power for a long long time. However if the past is an indication of the future, it's only a matter of time before WTSP raises power and kills WJXX totally for me. It's making it very hard with all my information to know how to plan antennas.

ctdish

05-13-09, 08:02 PM

My experience with high VHF is that about 20 KW provides much better signal strength than nearly 1 MW UHF at about 50 miles in hilly New England. This from WPRI and WNAC on high VHF, and WLNE and WJAR on UHF from nearly the same location. So in some cases the change back to VHF will help.
John

Falcon_77

05-13-09, 09:21 PM

Trip in VA

05-13-09, 09:43 PM

Does anyone have links to the various DTV channel election rounds? I have been trying to find a list of stations, by round, but am not having much luck.

I am trying to figure out why KLFY/10 has priority over WAFB/9, when they seem to be co-existing in the analog world (also on 10 and 9).

WAFB's "maximized" CP is for 5.57kW non-directional. They were allotted 0.36kW with a directional antenna by Appendix B.

WAFB has 316kW/ND for analog 9 while KLFY has 302/ND for analog and 20.3/ND for digital.

Thanks.

The way I hear it, when two channels are adjacent, the lower one causes more interference to the upper one than the upper one does to the lower one.

Don't take my word for it though; you'll want to ask an actual engineer.

- Trip

Piggie

05-13-09, 10:27 PM

The way I hear it, when two channels are adjacent, the lower one causes more interference to the upper one than the upper one does to the lower one.

Don't take my word for it though; you'll want to ask an actual engineer.

- Trip

I have never read on this or heard this etc.. But think about analog Vestigal sideband , it's notched hard on the bottom edge and pretty much runs free on the high side. So it does make sense thinking that way that 2 adj channels, the higher one gets more interference.

It will be interesting to see what happens with this translator money. WESH probably can't apply for any of it, but WNBW is in a position that maybe they qualify. They have at least entertained the idea of a translator for NBC. But if they can't do HD on the translator to me it would be moot. I can just turn to CH2 (WESH) on DirecTV and watch NBC in SD.

Funny thing because you are not down here to see it. But WESH is one of the few stations around that uses it's call sign as it's logo, instead of something like NBC2 or something. But they pronounce it and only read out the letters on the 30 minute IDs or what ever the law is now. Like the word "wish" but with a short e sound. Or like the word "welsh" without the l sound.
So when I think of that station I think "wesh", not WESH spelled out. I think WINK in Ft Myers does the same thing.

Trip in VA

05-13-09, 10:32 PM

Since WESH and WNBW don't own any translators, they're not eligible for any of this money.

I've seen some stations that brand that way. Not many stations have pronounceable call signs like that, but locally it's "WDBJ-7" and "WSLS-10." (And "DRL-24") I think the call letter branding might start making a comeback as stations attempt to be more local.

- Trip

acesk8er

05-13-09, 11:29 PM

Since WESH and WNBW don't own any translators, they're not eligible for any of this money.

WESH has an analog translator in Melbourne on ch. 16. It should be gone next month.

spokybob

05-14-09, 09:59 AM

And more have bought UHF only antennas. They honestly don't know. They walk in Target, Best Buy, Wal-Mart. They see a box called HD TV antenna. The sales person may actually have one and be happy. Both of them unaware of the cuts to VHF to come.

So not only have more people bought CECBs but probably more people have bought the wrong antenna. Even a lot of "antenna shops" are not up to date with changes.

June 13th will be interesting.
All of your statements are so true. I was happy with my CM4221 on the roof when I put it up 2.5 years ago. Then I joined this forum. I also have built so many Utube antennas. WHBF returns to RF4. We have a wait & see attitude now.
Another note: In an email from a friend near Morrison IL he says he had been experiencing problems with CBS (WIFR) in Rockford, but now is OK. My local KGCW is dark right now. Seems like he is near the edge of both xmitters contour on RF41. I've wondered how the allocations could put them so close.
About a year ago I had trouble with KQIN because skip or something was coming in from Quincy IL on RF34. These two stations should be OK. (I think)

Piggie

05-14-09, 10:51 AM

WESH has an analog translator in Melbourne on ch. 16. It should be gone next month.

Dah on me too! All the times I have looked up RF 16 in FL, one would think I would notice the W16AJ in Melbourne because of that famous owner (around here anyway) of ORLANDO HEARST-ARGYLE TELEVISION, INC. as the owner.

They probably don't bother me in North Central Fl seeing their are limping on 25% power due to tube failure, but I say anything that lowers the noise floor on a local station (WCJB-DT RF16) is alright by me!

Piggie

05-14-09, 11:24 AM

All of your statements are so true. I was happy with my CM4221 on the roof when I put it up 2.5 years ago. Then I joined this forum. I also have built so many Utube antennas. WHBF returns to RF4. We have a wait & see attitude now.
Another note: In an email from a friend near Morrison IL he says he had been experiencing problems with CBS (WIFR) in Rockford, but now is OK. My local KGCW is dark right now. Seems like he is near the edge of both xmitters contour on RF41. I've wondered how the allocations could put them so close.
About a year ago I had trouble with KQIN because skip or something was coming in from Quincy IL on RF34. These two stations should be OK. (I think)

I was referring to VHF but I looked up Morrison IL and the two transmitters. He is in a bad place for RF41. WIFR only running 100 KW omni, then KGCW the same distance. They run 500 some KW with a null in his general direction but that still looks like Morrison sees about 125 KW from KGCW. He really needs a ton of front to back on his array.

Well like I said I was thinking VHF, but you pointed out UHF too close together for my liking. It's like the people that did the allocations were thinking cell site type coverage. Pushing contours almost against each other.

It doesn't take much to raise the noise floor is one is trying to watch a fringe station. There is a full power RF26 in Orlando FL, WKMG. And there is a LD in Alachua FL on RF16. The LD throws a null on me and the high power WKMG has a peak on me. Even if the LD were not there, WKMG is too far away for me. But let there be a little skip and I see nothing on RF 26, and my TV locks on what it thinks is analog, I guess due to the mutual noise from both transmitters.

One big HUGE HUGE mistake in that final round of figuring well we let TV keep 2-6, so they don't need 52-59. Big big mistake for TV.

Granted it's tougher to get any range much about the low RF50s. But still they are not that bad. I have never seen a station in the RF 60's to be able to get any range at all, so good riddance to 60 to 69. But why oh why didn't the NAB raise hades over 52-59. It's obvious even now we have run out of channels in a lot of areas.

Falcon_77

05-14-09, 03:21 PM

I have never seen a station in the RF 60's to be able to get any range at all, so good riddance to 60 to 69. But why oh why didn't the NAB raise hades over 52-59. It's obvious even now we have run out of channels in a lot of areas.

I agree that lower UHF channels tend to be more effective, but don't count out the 50's and 60's. KCOP/66 is very poor in the LA area, but that probably has more to do with their equipment than the frequency.

KCBS/60 is one of my strongest stations and is the only DT station in the country on 60. KTTV/65 and KRCA/68 also work fine. All at 51 miles, but then Mt. Wilson helps, a lot.

The lower UHF stations handle bad cabling better, bend better and aren't as affected by trees. It's just too bad that Land Mobile takes out so many in major metro areas (parts or most of 14-21). Most antennas are poor performers below channel 20, however. 22-36 are probably the best "core" UHF channels.

I still don't understand why we needed to give up both 60-69 and 52-59 all at once. Couldn't we have tried just 60-69 at first? I would trade 2-6 for even 52-56 any day.

But, don't worry, WSD's/TVBD's will fill up the remaining gaps! :rolleyes:

ohio41

05-14-09, 04:07 PM

I have round 2 & round 3 excel spreadsheets I created from the FCC lists which I can email you if you give me your address. No round 1 data.

Piggie

05-14-09, 06:09 PM

For TV, there's a Winegard PR-8800 for UHF and an Antennacraft Y5-2-6 for low-VHF. It gets 13 analog surprisingly well, so I'm going to leave it and see how it does with the digital when they move it back in July or whenever that happens. Those are combined outside and then fed into a two way splitter, each split going into a separate Radio Shack amp (I know...). The one goes straight down to the sound room, the other gets split and sent to the kitchen, office, and my room.

The Internet connection is just a 900 MHz yagi going inside to the radio. I don't know anything about the antenna other than we now have one rated for 17 dB gain.

- Trip

Ok, that was the antlers I thought you owned. How do you like the 8800? I know a lot of people with the yagi, but never talked to a 8800 owner.

The other bay antenna I wonder about is the one made by Antennacraft. They are priced very low like the old CM's were, and look like they should work fine. Well if lowband is a flop, you can lengthen the elements a little add a gamma match and tune it for 6 meters.

I guess you have no high band there?

Piggie

05-14-09, 06:24 PM

The lower UHF stations handle bad cabling better, bend better and aren't as affected by trees. It's just too bad that Land Mobile takes out so many in major metro areas (parts or most of 14-21). Most antennas are poor performers below channel 20, however. 22-36 are probably the best "core" UHF channels.

I still don't understand why we needed to give up both 60-69 and 52-59 all at once. Couldn't we have tried just 60-69 at first? I would trade 2-6 for even 52-56 any day.

But, don't worry, WSD's/TVBD's will fill up the remaining gaps! :rolleyes:

funny, I have found the strongest skip around here on my 4221A, is 17 through 22. It is obvious here since I have a 16, 31, 36, that the 30's are more effected by wind foliage mulitpath than the 16. Even the 28 here is not as bad as 31 and 36. And the 28 is the weakest one also.

Well the way I read the history is they were not going to give them both up at once. They found they could not auction off the 2 - 6, so they sold what was worth more, TV be danged. It was also done in an era where OTA only viewers had dropped from 10 to 7 percent in the last ten years. Now it's back to 11 % and growing.

My simple answer why we lost 52-59 is one simple word that sums up business in the US, more so in the last 30 years, greed. Congress was beholden to sell those channels to get campaign money like they decide to vote on 98% of the bills. Anyone that thinks I am anti-America can take a long walk, as it is just the facts.

I would trade back those frequencies in a heart beat also.

Well here in FL I have seen good results in the 50's but up in the 60's things got harder. Probably as much feedline, and antennas as propagation.

Guess it's a moot point now.

But what gets me, if cell companies want more frequencies to roll out G4 type service. But that is all they have done now for 5 years or so. Very few new towers are built. All the holes in coverage are the same as they were almost 10 years ago, save a couple towers here and there.

I am probably old fashioned, but I want my cell phone first and most of all if not only be able to make phone calls. (not to mention the ripoff pricing of text messaging for unit data of bandwidth per dollar charged).

The trend comes and goes. Most cell phones in the late 90's had antenna ports for people with car antennas mostly. Then for a few years, it was declared not only didn't they need an antenna port, but that little 1/4 stub thing sticking out was not needed. Coverage on that era of phones was awful. They have improved the internal antenna a little since, but now there is a trend back toward not putting an antenna port again. Where I live it's critical to run a magmount or glass antenna to have coverage. Even an amp around here doesn't hurt.

But the world has endured with every generation making the same mistakes over and over, so this too shall pass...............

Piggie :@)

Trip in VA

05-14-09, 06:38 PM

Ok, that was the antlers I thought you owned. How do you like the 8800? I know a lot of people with the yagi, but never talked to a 8800 owner.

I'm an 8800 owner and you've talked to me plenty! :D

It works a lot better than the Winegard Ghostkiller it replaced (brought from New Jersey). I rather like it, it's definitely more directional. The problem I have with it is it's actually very picky (a good thing for most situations). Amusingly, it will drop WSET-DT 34 if I move it only a few degrees off, which means I have to do a delicate balancing act between it and the Roanoke stations. At this point, I've figured out that I can peak WBRA-DT 3 and still keep WSET-DT solid, but that means WDRL-DT falls ever so slightly off the cliff and doesn't decode. I'm hoping the move to VHF by WSET-DT and the impending power boost by WWCW-DT makes the Lynchburg stations a non-issue so I can peak WBRA-DT and hold WDRL-DT at the same time.

The other bay antenna I wonder about is the one made by Antennacraft. They are priced very low like the old CM's were, and look like they should work fine. Well if lowband is a flop, you can lengthen the elements a little add a gamma match and tune it for 6 meters.

I guess you have no high band there?

Not yet. WSET-DT 34 moves back to 13 in July or something. Right now, I get analog 13 very well even with this setup, so I'm hoping it continues to work at that point. If not, I'm not sure what we'll do. If it is a problem, I'm hopeful by that time that WBRA-DT will have decided low-VHF won't work (unlikely) and be prepping to move off, and a Y10-7-13 would be ordered to replace the Y5-2-6. Failing that, I'd start looking at VHF combo antennas.

Amusingly, though, this antenna gets a fair amount of signal from WVPT-DT 11 in Staunton with the antenna 90 degrees off (pointed at Roanoke). I'm wondering why that is exactly. I'd gladly take that signal to replace WBRA-DT if it came right down to it, but it's so far off from the others that pointing the antenna that way would lose a lot of other things. (And pointing right at it actually reduces the signal it gets; the mystery grows.)

Actually, the antenna does pretty well on upper-VHF entirely. 7/10/13 analogs (plus the UHFs) all still look pretty good. 10 picked up some softness when WSWP-DT moved from 53 to 10 a few months ago, and if I aim the antenna just right when conditions are right I can make 10 analog disappear (I'm betting that it will become a frequent DX catch once WSLS analog is gone; the analog WSWP-9 was a very rare catch due to splatter from WSLS-10, and terrain killed everything else from West Virginia). 27 had gotten rather soft right after WRDC-DT powered up years ago.

I wish they made a Y10-2-6. It might have more success with WBRA-DT.

- Trip

ctdish

05-14-09, 07:15 PM

Trip,
If you could find one a PR 5040 would likely be as good as a Y10-2-6. These also work better on VHF high than a Y10-7-13. It's too bad most of the good large TV antennas have been discontinued.
John

Tower Guy

05-14-09, 09:59 PM

I wish they made a Y10-2-6. It might have more success with WBRA-DT.

- Trip
Try this:
http://www.summitsource.com/winegard-ya1026-10-element-low-band-yagi-vhf-antenna-prostar-1000-ya1026-low-band-ch-26-outdoor-high-definition-offair-local-signal-television-aerial-blue-zone-part-ya1026-with-coax-cable-p-4549.html

Trip in VA

05-14-09, 10:42 PM

Piggie

05-15-09, 12:04 AM

Try this:
http://www.summitsource.com/winegard-ya1026-10-element-low-band-yagi-vhf-antenna-prostar-1000-ya1026-low-band-ch-26-outdoor-high-definition-offair-local-signal-television-aerial-blue-zone-part-ya1026-with-coax-cable-p-4549.html

Trip, I think electrically the Antenna Craft and Winegard are equal if they made a big low band, but the Winegard is built better IMHO.

Then again Winegard dropped their little Highband only so now the only one that makes on is AC Y5-7-13. I wrote directly to Winegard engineers and marketing and told them they were crazy for dropping that antenna because AntennaCraft is getting a ton of buisness, as that little baby is good enough for a lot of VHF situation. They said they just need to buy what I did, the YA-1713. I said sure if you are deep fringe like I am, but still you are missing the boat. It's like about the only people in downtown Gainesville that get a solid WNBW use the Y-5-13, and they don't need the bigger beam!

Well it's their loss.

I still wonder how the U-4000 and U-8000 stack up against the Winegard collinear antennas? The Winegards cost less and yours from your review sounds like it works nice.

Falcon_77

05-15-09, 11:29 AM

How much gain does that have? I'm either not seeing it or they don't list the gain anywhere. That looks interesting.

The specs say 4.6 for 2 and 5.7 for 4:

http://www.solidsignal.com/manuals/ya1026.pdf

What about a single channel Yagi for 3? (from Wade in Canada)

http://www.wade-antenna.com/Wade/cutchannel.pdf

Trip in VA

05-15-09, 11:30 AM

So, 5 dB. That's the same as what I have now.

- Trip

Piggie

05-15-09, 02:57 PM

So, 5 dB. That's the same as what I have now.

- Trip

Maybe sorta the same.

The WG appears to have a RF 02 reflector, like the AC.

The WG appears to have five RF 06 directors (typical WG design).
The AC appears to have three RF 06 directors.

The AC is feed with a folded dipole which some say doesn't have gain over dipole and some where though I can't find a single reference after hunting for 30 minutes, may a db or so.

But the WG not only has 2/3s more totally passive directors which would be also about 2 db more gain than the AC.

However, WG has 4 driven log style elements compared to AC's single folded dipole. Now that is a hard one for me to guess. The longest is probably tuned between 2 and 3, the next between 3 and 4, and so one, till the last is between 5 and 6. The biggest difference here is the folded dipole is much more broadband than a dipole. But with 4 driven elements on the WG, they have that covered better in my opinion than the broadband effects of the AC folded dipole.

But the driven element for 2-3 adds to the reflector gain and f/b as part of RF 3 is picked up also on the RF3-4 element. And the two driven elements in front of it act like directors to both driven elements that are close to RF3. And the RF 3-4 element acts like a director to what is picked up on the 2-3 driven element.

Hence it acts more like it has 7 directors and 2 reflectors, but not tuned to strickly RF 3 like a Wade antenna (single channel). [or you could look at it as 8 directors and 1 reflector, but actually since it's log driven it's both]

This would account why they rate it at (interpolated) at 5.12 db on RF 3.

And remember we don't know if the AC is averaged gain or peak. I don't know them well enough to know their marketing, which they claim 4.9 db.

I know both companies well enough that I haven't caught either of the grossly exaggerating their claims on their logs and log yagi antennas.

If AC is 4.9 on RF4 (guessing average) then it's probably about 4 db on RF3.

So that would mean on RF3 the AC is 4db, the WG is 5.1 db

But, the WG is twice as long and by my estimate above has double the number of passive elements (remember one attached electrically can act passive if off resonance). In Yagi theory, double the boom, or stack 2 and you achieve a 3db gain.

So if we then assume (more I think about I go with this) the 4.9 db rating on the AC is on RF 06 and goes lower as any log-yagi does in gain as frequency goes down (because you have to make directors for the high end and reflectors for the low end).

Ok, now we are comparing 4.9 db for the AC on RF 06, vs 6.0 db for WG on RF 06. This still doesn't add up. Either way I only come up with about 1 db more gain for the WS than the AC using only their published specs.

But we know the WG should have close to 3 db more gain at least on RF 06. Low band is such a huge percentage bandwidth range things get hard to figure intuitively. 54 to 88 Mhz, comes out to a 63% percentage bandwidth, makes me doubt a folded dipole can cover that percentage bandwidth but we know a log driven section can do it easily. The AC's driven is probably cut for RF 04, so for you, this maybe fine Trip.

If I were to place a bet. Based on my intuitive playing with antenna over the decades I would say the WG has 1 to 1.5 db over the AC on the low end. And 2.5 to 3db over the AC on the high end of the band.

If you think the directors to both antenna are about 20% shorter than resonance that is pretty darn short to act like much of a director. Though you have to know the more of them out there add a little.

So the WG to me is like a 3.5 to 4 element beam on RF 3. Because if you look at the 2-3 as the driven, then there is a reflector and 2 directors in the right length range. If you look at the 3-4 driven element it has 1 director and 2 reflectors (additional reflectors do little for gain but good for f/b) or 3 element beam.

The AC is a 2 element beam on RF 03. Mainly the driven and reflector, as even the director in front of the driven folded dipole is cut way up at RF 06.

So it has to have at least one db more gain on RF 3. Double the directors may very well add an additional 1/2 db, but probably more than anything tighten the pattern, which can't be measured in pure gain. As we know with DTV, any and all ways to reject interference are welcome. So it might just act like it approaches 3db if it rejects some noise on RF 03, which, is just about always available (but not welcome).

So the big question is it worth $85 shipped to your door? The added weight on the mast? I would say if the money weren't an object, that part yes over the life of the antenna. The mast should be ok, as it would be low on the pole. Then if money isn't a huge problem, buy 4 sections of tower, that will hold it.

Maybe after all this chatter, the real question is now close is WBRA to being watchable now? If it's just little annoying pixels and maybe 1/2 second drops, then the WG will get rid of some of that. If it's huge drops for 5 seconds, it might bring them down to 3 to 4 seconds, but not change the watchability much.

The End (for now)...... Piggie :@)

afiggatt

05-15-09, 02:58 PM

Only 4 weeks to go to analog shutdown day! Are you ready for the rumble? :D

Seriously though, Falcon_77 or Trip, have either of you been keeping some sort of count of how many maximization applications the FCC has acted on yet? I have noticed that the FCC has been granting some of them at a low rate the past few months, but there are still a bunch filed last June that are still outstanding. Looking at the table I put together on the Washington DC-Baltimore-Hagerstown stations, the FCC granted maximization apps for 7 of them, but there are still 5 pending. Is that a typical breakdown of the maximization status?

I came across a pleading from WMPT 22, the mother-ship station for Maryland Public TV, located near Annapolis, MD, for action on their maximization filing to go from 150 kW to 516 kW. Oddly, the FCC granted the max apps for the MPT satellite stations: WFPT 62 in Frederick, WMPB 67 in Baltimore, both of which increased their power in February and more recently, WWPB 31 in Hagerstown to go to 1000 kW. But not for the primary MPT station that covers the core of the Baltimore-DC market. One would think that to aid in a smooth transition, the FCC would want as many stations as possible that filed for increased post-trans ERP to be ready to go to their maximized power on June 13. But what do I know?

Trip in VA

05-15-09, 03:05 PM

Piggie

05-15-09, 04:37 PM

- Trip

But you are still reading my long post! Gotta run to work, so relax, no deadline, lol...

Trip in VA

05-15-09, 04:51 PM

But you are still reading my long post! Gotta run to work, so relax, no deadline, lol...

Yes, sometimes I take a long time deciding what exactly I want to say. I sometimes pen posts in kwrite on and off over the course of an hour or two. :D

I really don't think it's worth the time or money to replace it. My dad is still crippled and actually now needs joint work done on his feet so he doesn't want to go up on the roof anymore if he can help it, and he still won't let me go up on the roof. Plus, the VHF antenna is at the top of the pole (believe it or not, everything works better in that arrangement than with the antennas flipped), so anything that goes up there has to be relatively light.

On top of that, only getting 1-2 dB out of it won't make much of a difference. During the winter, the signal was usually around 16.5 dB, right above the line between clean decode and breakup. If it was like that all the time, I'd say great. Right now, though, it's at 9 dB, way below that line. It's likely going to stay there til September.

To gain 6 dB might make an antenna replacement worthwhile, but not an amount as small as we're talking.

- Trip

afiggatt

05-15-09, 05:33 PM

WMPT filed an STA yesterday to power up to 470 kW or so. The FCC has interference concerns about WUTB-DT, WMPT-DT, WTXF-DT, and WCVE-DT and thus will not grant those maximizations until there's an interference acceptance agreement or amendments which eliminate the interference.

Amusingly, all of these would go away if WMPT-DT moved to channel 43 or something.
Didn't see that STA filing from WMPT-DT. I knew about the WUTB-DT interference, but forgot or overlooked the co-channel 42 interference with WTXF-DT in Philly and WCVE-DT in Richmond. The mid-Atlantic region is seriously crowded with UHF 52 to 69 being taken away. Too late to get UHF 52 and 53 back for a little more channel space. Guess WMPT-DT can't flash cut back to UHF 22 either with WRIC-DT in Richmond and WNJS-DT in Camden, NJ, both on DT 22.

Will be interesting to see if the FCC grants WMPT's STA in the short time remaining. Reading the attached letter, the petition of WSAH-DT in CT wanting to move to NYC proper and to UHF 41 really makes for a complicated situation. WMPT-DT may have to move to a different channel if they want to get full coverage, but that may cost more money that they have available given the current economy. However, in the DC-Baltimore thread, I see more complaints about not getting WETA-DT PBS 26 in DC than MPT because I think most people can get one of the MPT satellite stations if they can't get WMPT-DT. Meanwhile, I guess there has been no public action on the WETA-DT petition to move to channel 51 that I am aware of.

Piggie

05-15-09, 10:55 PM

Yes, sometimes I take a long time deciding what exactly I want to say. I sometimes pen posts in kwrite on and off over the course of an hour or two. :D

I really don't think it's worth the time or money to replace it. My dad is still crippled and actually now needs joint work done on his feet so he doesn't want to go up on the roof anymore if he can help it, and he still won't let me go up on the roof. Plus, the VHF antenna is at the top of the pole (believe it or not, everything works better in that arrangement than with the antennas flipped), so anything that goes up there has to be relatively light.

On top of that, only getting 1-2 dB out of it won't make much of a difference. During the winter, the signal was usually around 16.5 dB, right above the line between clean decode and breakup. If it was like that all the time, I'd say great. Right now, though, it's at 9 dB, way below that line. It's likely going to stay there til September.

To gain 6 dB might make an antenna replacement worthwhile, but not an amount as small as we're talking.

- Trip

I would say you would see 3 db or more in signal quality, not RF because of eliminating a lot of noise off the beam. However you just answered my last and most important question. What you need at least 4 yagis in phase, but 8 would be better. Then a license to have that much gain, lol, with it bolted to the house and the entire house put on a rotor.

If you spent any time on the low bands, a lot of the old timers will tell you to stand by while they turn their house around at you, meaning really just their antenna on a rotor.

But there was a guy, forgot his call. He is probably gone, passed on, as this was back in the mid to late 1970's. He was king of 40 meters period. He had a rotatable Rhombic serveral wavelengths on a side. It was peaked on 40 meters though it had a little gain 80. But he loved 7 MHz. He had some type of train tracks around his house. With poles mounted on the cars. He was LOUD. If you go back to QST of the era you would read about him. He worked everyone to give them (including me) a thrill. He was up somewhere in the NE US, and he would be S9 plus when other people in the area on dipoles, inverted vees, were S4 to S5. There were times he was the ONLY station you heard from there is he was beaming Florida.

So maybe you need to build a Rhombic, but you would not have to turn it. It might actually be the answer. I seriously though about it to pull in WNBW. Eclectically it's not hard and it's all wire, but figuring how to put up four 30 ft poles becomes the work.

But you like I, I believe, thinks something is going break over this mess of low band DTV and even high band on low power. Like Falcon I am more sad than ever we lost 52-59. It won't do me one bit of good, as the networks they will built out on those frequencies will be in high density urban areas. G2, G3, G4, G5 networks!! Who cares when I have trouble even making cell phone calls from my house. I just want coverage.

acesk8er

05-15-09, 11:31 PM

Back to the future...

http://www.wtfda.org/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=89&Itemid=45

Piggie

05-15-09, 11:34 PM

To follow your conversation about the NE corridor, I looked up the stations on Trip's site (now better than the FCC! Hurray Trip!).

But what stared at me and looking at other PBS stations how each in their own wisdom (sarcasm intended) how they use their bandwidth, since they all show about at least the first 3 programs the same. The best I have seen and can actually see is WJCT, but they need to drop their 7.5 and give that back to one of the other 4 programs.

Subchannels, part of the justification for loosing upper UHF. I have this feeling they knew. But the money in their pockets for reelection and jobs after serving in the government out weighed the public good.

I think I shall name it the "Curse of Subchannels".

Trip in VA

05-15-09, 11:50 PM

Trip in VA

05-15-09, 11:54 PM

But what stared at me and looking at other PBS stations how each in their own wisdom (sarcasm intended) how they use their bandwidth, since they all show about at least the first 3 programs the same. The best I have seen and can actually see is WJCT, but they need to drop their 7.5 and give that back to one of the other 4 programs.

Which stations are you looking at? There's a number of stations up that way which are part of the state-wide MPT network, which do show the same programming. Their coverage areas have limited overlap.

- Trip

Piggie

05-16-09, 12:42 PM

It gets to a point where it's not worth the effort anymore. Need to see if their antenna replacement (should that ever occur) helps me out, but I have a feeling that during the summer, my biggest problem is co-channel from somewhere. I hope that WBTV and WTKR going away helps. The second biggest problem is skip. That will not go away whatever I do.

I'd try a bigger antenna if I could put it up myself, but Dad refuses to let me go up on the roof at all. There are actually two elements bent on the PR-8800 which doesn't really make a difference but I can't even go up there and fix that.

- Trip

I know about the effort. I feel that way about my NBC problem. It's like they looked at a map, found my house, then made all three NBC stations adjust their power, antenna pattern and tower location to give me nearly exactly the same signal quality, there sometimes others not, drops at the wrong time, every time.

Like you and many others, its a waiting game now till June 12/13 to see what happens. You probably have been scanning the Orlando thread with Lum and myself talking. He has both a CBS and NBC problem, and is in wait mode. A few besides me are in wait mode in Gainesville to see what happens when WTLV and WJXX turn up their power.

Then there are those like my friend in Springfield, MO. Everything was fine, until their PBS flashed back to their old VHF from a temp UHF. She gave me her TVFool to her house. The PBS runs 20 KW, and she is close enough the NM (db) is in the 50s, but inside her trailer, rabbit ears won't lock the VHF. My point with her is she did find out what the future was like, no PBS. She doesn't have the funds to have an antenna put up. I told her put her rabbit ears on the roof of the trailer with an extension, but she hasn't written back in over a week.

I am seeing it in threads everywhere. I know it's moot, too late to get back 52-59, but that was probably the biggest mistake by the TV Industry, which I guess one would say NAB, not to lobby their posteriors off (read that fill the coffers of reelection funds) to keep those channels.

Obviously most of what is bringing back the pain of losing the 50's are stations cutting back to VHF. Mainly high band but the there are the WBRAs.

I guess you mean (I didn't look it up) that WBRA is changing their antenna. I hope that helps you also. I know here when First Coast News changed their antenna it made a HUGE improvement on their digital channels.

Now to me this begs a HUGE question. Into the same feed line/antenna, they feed into the combiner at the bottom, WTLV RF12 Analog. WFTV-DT RF 13, and WJXX-DT RF 10. Old antenna vs new antenna, the RF12 analog is no difference here. But the two digitals are day and night plus 20 db. They went from people not even on the edge of Duval county giving up on receiving them to me way out 2 counties away seeing at least WTLV-DT most of the time. I would say running the same TPO on digital RF 13 and RF 10, their signal at my house went up close to 20 db. They did have a problem with the old antenna. I think though to be fair, or I could call him and ask, that before combining the RF 12 analog was on a good antenna.

But my point is their new antenna really made a difference. It was set to put out a better pattern because they are on a coast. Also the old antenna had failed in some way. But the new antenna helped the digital much more. But I may be playing with too many variable to make a point.

However. WJCT flash cut back to their RF 7. They didn't put nearly as good of an analog signal down here as RF12 did. So I assume they are using (RF7) the same feedline and antenna. They are just across the street from each other and both right at 300 meters up. RF 10 at 11.5 KW and RF 13 at 25 KW put a much better signal down here than RF 7 does at 18 KW.

So is that the difference in their transmit antennas? Is it because there is considerably more noise on RF 7 than the top of high band? For example playing on 2 meters and 220, 220 is MUCH quieter band. Back in my 1980's packet radio days even at 1200 baud, it was obvious 220 had fewer errors than 2 meters. Part of it was QRM (manmade noise, but a good deal was QRN (Natural Noise).

Any yes, wait till June, which is almost here, which normally the best E-skip month on the calendar. RF 3 is well well within the range of just moderate E-skip.

Bad for you , but it might be fun for DXers, being there will be so few lowbands on the air. E-skip if very selective as to the origin zone and reception zones. Often only 100 miles diameter though often 800 to 1200 miles apart. Makes me want to put up a low band antenna, maybe ??? Won't need an amp. It would not need to be high, as when E rolls it rolls STRONG on lowband. The LB AC antler you have might be just right for e-skip season. I found playing e-skip on 10 meters (I never had a 6 meter set up). that some gain but not a lot, say 3 db, helps a lot. Front to back doesn't matter, as it's coming from a specific location. But a broad beamwidth keeps you from missing an opening. From my experience on 10 meter e-skip, a 3 element highband feed with a folded dipole might make the perfect skip antenna.

But what I don't know, if will the skip zone in the ionosphere be wide enough to cause multipath? I know I have heard tapes from who back then was the local 6 meter dxer and there was often echos on his tapes of FM and SSB voice he recorded. But the echos were much worse in auroral opening than strict summer e-skip. Then my point is you might need that WG to kill as much mulitpath as you can. But since the e cloud is not very big normally, the mulitpath still might come in from angle very acute to the main beam, which would beg stacking horizontally (ouch on Low band!).

Well this entry is now way too long, and my flow of consicenous on the subject left the planet.....

Piggie :@)

Piggie

05-16-09, 12:55 PM

Which stations are you looking at? There's a number of stations up that way which are part of the state-wide MPT network, which do show the same programming. Their coverage areas have limited overlap.

- Trip

I think here I was not clear, cause you to miss the point (my bad).

The point wasn't bad they show the same programming. I was using it as a comparison as to how much bandwidth, one station compared to another used for their subchannels. Common subchannels for PBS are Create and PBS World.

The four I was looking at were WUFT, WJCT, WETA, and WMPT. And how each station decided either 1080 or 720 for the main, then how much bandwidth the main and each sub was given. It varies greatly.

I guess the point is I have my opinion what I would do to split up a 3 or 4 program PBS station (which last time we talked we pretty much agreed). Versus how I see what is happening in the real world. It's really an old topic rehashed.

WETA runs 720 w/ 12.4m, yet WMPT runs 1080 w/ 10.65 of which you well know as the numbers are from RabbitEars.info.

Then I had to chuckle at WMPT while most likely having mega blocked on their main, is giving their two subs decent bandwidth. I would tell them if they are only going to use 10.65 on their main, they need to go 720.

And WETA while giving their main channel at 720 plenty of bandwidth, cheats their subs into blocking I am sure.

If you look at (because I can see it in very light skip) WJCT, needs to dump their WJCT7-5 because it's only a slide show for community service and rebroadcasting WJCT-FM for audio. I feel that meg would be better put back on their main 720, even though watching them, surprisingly at only 9.9m, I don't see blocking on my TV.

Anyway, hope I was more clear this time. My apologies.

Trip in VA

05-16-09, 05:08 PM

Piggie

05-17-09, 10:10 AM

I'll respond to your second message first, I need to some to filter through the longer one.

Realize that the MPT stations are doing statistical multiplexing. 10.65 is just the number at the time I took the capture; the actual number varies from second to second. I didn't list it as such on the site because as long as I'm not 100% sure, I don't list it one way or another.

I get the impression WETA's encoder isn't that new, so I'm not sure how much they can suck away from the 720p without making it look bad. I don't know first-hand, that's just the impression I have.

- Trip

Ok, that makes sense on the MPT stations. One would think WETA would be fancier being one the leading PBS channels.

But overall all the poor mouthing on donation drives for decades from the PBS stations, currently many now really are in trouble or cutting it to the bone. They were allowed to flash cut if possible early. I have seen few to none of them file for more power. WMFE not one I considered a small PBS in Orlando is off the air between midnight and 6 am to save money. So no doubt what ever most PBS stations have now is what they have for a while.

Then again many can argue that Orlando DMA has too many PBS stations and in many ways not be wrong. Think in a way how silly it is. Between satellite and OTA I have 4 reliable PBS channels and another that is there during light skip. Central and North Central FL is not hurting for PBS coverage.

Sorry, did it again, twisted an reply to another topic totally. If you don't have time to reply to the big post it's ok, it was mostly a documentary for you to read.

Trip in VA

05-17-09, 03:22 PM

Alright, first of all, for your long message:

The first thing that comes to mind is that it's the CBS station rather than the PBS in Springfield MO that flash-cut back to VHF. They're also preparing to apply to boost power from 20 kW to 60 kW.

WBRA-DT does have a permit to change to an omni directional antenna, though still on channel 3. It will give me an additional 6 dB, but I don't know how much that will actually help. You can look for it via skip, but I don't know if you'll decode it. If you do, you'll have more success than I'm having.

WTLV/WJXX had an antenna that got hit by lightning, so it definitely should have improved once it was replaced. As for why WJCT is so poor, there's no telling. Could be any number of things; it'd be interesting to see what it looks like on a spectrum analyzer. Noise is another factor, though the difference between 10 or 9 and 7 shouldn't be that huge in terms of noise levels.

I'm a DXer too but I also like to be able to receive my local PBS. It's gone even when there isn't e-skip floating around. I haven't seen anything digital out of it in two days, and last time it was in was around 11PM and that's a bit late at night for most in my household. (Not me, of course.)

Skip has always had some multipath in it, though it can sometimes be worse than at other times. I remember one time I got an ABC station showing basketball, and the multipath was such that I had a rainbow of different images. A red image on the left across to a violet one on the right. I'd never seen anything like it and never since.

Finally, I noticed I had updated data for WETA that I hadn't uploaded when you made your post. You'll find new bitrates that are accurate as of about a week or two ago.

- Trip

Piggie

05-17-09, 07:03 PM

Alright, first of all, for your long message:

[QUOTE=Trip in VA;16478234]The first thing that comes to mind is that it's the CBS station rather than the PBS in Springfield MO that flash-cut back to VHF. They're also preparing to apply to boost power from 20 kW to 60 kW. Ok, my bad for 100th time this week, it was KOLR CBS. Great for Springfield for that increase. I looked in the applications but didn't see it. Have they not filed yet and you have inside information?

WBRA-DT does have a permit to change to an omni directional antenna, though still on channel 3. It will give me an additional 6 dB, but I don't know how much that will actually help. You can look for it via skip, but I don't know if you'll decode it. If you do, you'll have more success than I'm having.

6db from my determination make a huge difference if you are on the edge. But you need to be on the edge to begin with, not lack of reception. My best comparison is the current WTLV vs WJXX. They are on the same feedline and antenna. I am on the same antenna, but it could be partly my antenna, which prefers the top of the band by about a db. Their power is difference is 3.5 db, and maybe, my antenna is .5 db between RF 10 and 13, for say 4db. WTLV is watchable with tiny dropouts when WJXX totally freezes.

Also sometimes db from an antenna is better if there was anything wrong with the old antenna. If they are just taking out a null then it probably not. I am just hoping for you but it doesn't sound good.

WTLV/WJXX had an antenna that got hit by lightning, so it definitely should have improved once it was replaced. As for why WJCT is so poor, there's no telling. Could be any number of things; it'd be interesting to see what it looks like on a spectrum analyzer. Noise is another factor, though the difference between 10 or 9 and 7 shouldn't be that huge in terms of noise levels.

They had something more wrong than they said with their antenna. For nearly now 2 years there was nothing from them even in strong skip, nothing. Suddenly one afternoon boom they are there, speaking of WTLV/WJXX. I wish I was closer to them or they were 500 meters etc, but they put out a decent signal for 61 miles from me. Still it's not a 24/7 station for me sadly. There are times DirecTV is my NBC.

Even on my old antenna decade ago, WJCT was never as strong as WTLV. I don't know the history of their antennas, towers, etc.

I'm a DXer too but I also like to be able to receive my local PBS. It's gone even when there isn't e-skip floating around. I haven't seen anything digital out of it in two days, and last time it was in was around 11PM and that's a bit late at night for most in my household. (Not me, of course.)

Well most of the time there is no e-skip. It's rather rare except in June or unless you are done on 10 or 11 meters.

That type of reception doesn't sound like 3 db from their antenna is going to make much difference.

Skip has always had some multipath in it, though it can sometimes be worse than at other times. I remember one time I got an ABC station showing basketball, and the multipath was such that I had a rainbow of different images. A red image on the left across to a violet one on the right. I'd never seen anything like it and never since.

I wonder if it was auroral skip? The loudest echos I have never heard on SSB was that time I mentioned. I have heard echo's on 20 meter phone from what had to be F layer due to the distance. For some reason it was not unusual to hear it out of what is now Russian and Ukraine short path, and India long path. In the year or so I was active on 2m SSB I never caught e-skip. But I did a few times on 2meter FM, but FM somewhat like ATSC, would either decode the strongest path or not at all.

Finally, I noticed I had updated data for WETA that I hadn't uploaded when you made your post. You'll find new bitrates that are accurate as of about a week or two ago.

- Trip

Well they feed their sub programs well on this update, but I wonder what 720p look like on that low a bit rate. It doesn't look too back at 10m when I watch it on WJCT, but then I only have a 720p TV, if that makes a difference.

There is not doubt that a LOT of fringe viewers will suffer some loss. As things play out in the DTV transition this is becoming apparent. Mine and yours could be fixed if our local channels changed something. I feel confident if WNBW even went to 25 KW (should go up to 40) an omni I would have NBC at 37 miles. If WBRA dumped low band well, what were they thinking?

Trip in VA

05-17-09, 10:33 PM

Ok, my bad for 100th time this week, it was KOLR CBS. Great for Springfield for that increase. I looked in the applications but didn't see it. Have they not filed yet and you have inside information?

It was posted by rhoops in the Springfield thread. He says it's in the hands of the DC lawyers now. I'm looking for it to show up in the next few weeks. Hopefully it will be approved quickly.

6db from my determination make a huge difference if you are on the edge. But you need to be on the edge to begin with, not lack of reception. My best comparison is the current WTLV vs WJXX. They are on the same feedline and antenna. I am on the same antenna, but it could be partly my antenna, which prefers the top of the band by about a db. Their power is difference is 3.5 db, and maybe, my antenna is .5 db between RF 10 and 13, for say 4db. WTLV is watchable with tiny dropouts when WJXX totally freezes.

Also sometimes db from an antenna is better if there was anything wrong with the old antenna. If they are just taking out a null then it probably not. I am just hoping for you but it doesn't sound good.

Yeah, I think first of all, cleaning up their signal would help a LOT, the power boost would help somewhat less, and the single most helpful thing would be moving to UHF like they should.

Well most of the time there is no e-skip. It's rather rare except in June or unless you are done on 10 or 11 meters.

That type of reception doesn't sound like 3 db from their antenna is going to make much difference.

It's weird though. All winter it held on right around 16.5 dB, which was just above the line for decoding. In the last two weeks, the signal slowly disappeared and right this second is at 13.2 dB, and has been sinking since I got home about an hour ago

Even the slightest bit of skip trashes it. Even before their signal went down the drain however long ago it was, when it was strong (right after they signed on) it would die before there was observable interference on channel 2 and take a while to come back after it was gone. Just the increase in the noise floor took it away.

I wonder if it was auroral skip? The loudest echos I have never heard on SSB was that time I mentioned. I have heard echo's on 20 meter phone from what had to be F layer due to the distance. For some reason it was not unusual to hear it out of what is now Russian and Ukraine short path, and India long path. In the year or so I was active on 2m SSB I never caught e-skip. But I did a few times on 2meter FM, but FM somewhat like ATSC, would either decode the strongest path or not at all.

I'd be tempted to agree with you but am I not a bit far south for auroral stuff?

Well they feed their sub programs well on this update, but I wonder what 720p look like on that low a bit rate. It doesn't look too back at 10m when I watch it on WJCT, but then I only have a 720p TV, if that makes a difference.

The old data had 26-1 at 1080i with the 12 Mbps, so...

There is not doubt that a LOT of fringe viewers will suffer some loss. As things play out in the DTV transition this is becoming apparent. Mine and yours could be fixed if our local channels changed something. I feel confident if WNBW even went to 25 KW (should go up to 40) an omni I would have NBC at 37 miles. If WBRA dumped low band well, what were they thinking?

I don't think the fringes are as bad off as people think. Places where the UHFs have always been present will continue to receive service, it's only in terrain-blocked locations where low-VHFs hugged the Earth that coverage will be lost.

The problem is that a lot of people got by with very poor reception from an indoor antenna, even in the fringes, and now need a proper setup to receive anything. I've run into this so many times out here, people using rabbit ears or VHF-only roof antennas to watch things at 80+ miles now getting nothing digitally.

There are a lot of stations which need to fix things, but some of them are more willing or more able than others. I think WBRA-DT is either going to drag it out until donations slow down too much, or if Mobile DTV takes off, will find out very quickly that low-VHF doesn't work for it and thus they'll move. I don't think WBRA-DT is permanently staying on channel 3, but I think they're going to waste a lot of time and money before they get to their final resolution.

- Trip

Trip in VA

05-18-09, 12:08 AM

I... think WSAH-DT is going to withdraw their channel 41 petition. I'm not 100% clear what the "Settlement" in this bit of paperwork is about. Can I get one or more additional opinions?

http://fjallfoss.fcc.gov/cgi-bin/ws.exe/prod/cdbs/forms/prod/prefill_and_display.pl?Application_id=1312836&Service=LD&Form_id=346&Facility_id=60554

- Trip

Piggie

05-18-09, 12:46 AM

It was posted by rhoops in the Springfield thread. He says it's in the hands of the DC lawyers now. I'm looking for it to show up in the next few weeks. Hopefully it will be approved quickly.

The woman there turned me onto a local forum, it's not TV but there was a TV thread in there, and it applies to what you say below about indoor antennas.

I hope it's fast for them as well. Wondering why they need lawyers unless they are trying to expedite it or are the interference issues a close call?

Yeah, I think first of all, cleaning up their signal would help a LOT, the power boost would help somewhat less, and the single most helpful thing would be moving to UHF like they should.

It's weird though. All winter it held on right around 16.5 dB, which was just above the line for decoding. In the last two weeks, the signal slowly disappeared and right this second is at 13.2 dB, and has been sinking since I got home about an hour ago

I have watched skip all my life and there are times when Jax or WNBW drops out and I can't explain it. Said it before where I turn the beam to see if it's WFTV and can't even get sync bars or watch them lock as I tune the channel. Then again like you say, you can't tell as WNBW can block enough WFTV so I can't see it, doesn't mean it's not there.

But last night around midnight I lost everything from Jax. Like a switch. I turned the beam at Tampa, nothing. And I can see channels where currently there is not co-channel like 8. If I can see 8 from Tampa, Jax is normally toast.

But dang it, all this would end if WNBW pulled out the null and maybe more power. Frustrating, as when WFTV goes silent, RF 9 will be a clear channel for even average skip. But as it stands they are not running enough power in my direction that no noise, no co-channel, they fade out. After almost six months I have concluded there are three factors on them. Worst is Co-channel, second and third are noise and fading, can't always tell which is which. Which I think is also the problem WBRA is having. Some times they are just plain fading

Even the slightest bit of skip trashes it. Even before their signal went down the drain however long ago it was, when it was strong (right after they signed on) it would die before there was observable interference on channel 2 and take a while to come back after it was gone. Just the increase in the noise floor took it away.

That sounds just like me and WNBW. High Band can be just as bad on noise. There is WLUF that my beams sees on RF 10 pointing at WNBW about 25 degrees off the main beam. It is above so it should hurt WNBW less than WNBW hurts it but still it's a little more noise in the mix.

I think the biggest advantage with high band, is if you just raise the power some you don't see those same problems that probably won't go away on low band unless one were go to way up in power and you live under the tower.

I'd be tempted to agree with you but am I not a bit far south for auroral stuff?

For most auroral stuff but not all. I have seen it in the sky here in Florida in 1989. That was the time I heard the tape made of the echos on 6 meters. There was an e-skip opening at the same time, that then lead into an auroral opening. So that is possible. You are a lot closer to it than me, so it's possible for you have an tropo opeing that leads into an auroral opening. Speaking of which I do remember seeing the same thing on a TV, but that was back in the 1960's. The next day I realized the TV not only wasn't color but wasn't even plugged in :@)

I don't think the fringes are as bad off as people think. Places where the UHFs have always been present will continue to receive service, it's only in terrain-blocked locations where low-VHFs hugged the Earth that coverage will be lost.

The problem is that a lot of people got by with very poor reception from an indoor antenna, even in the fringes, and now need a proper setup to receive anything. I've run into this so many times out here, people using rabbit ears or VHF-only roof antennas to watch things at 80+ miles now getting nothing digitally.

Yes but many can only afford a set of rabbit ears. Paying someone to install an antenna outside had really gotten expensive. I can see why looking into doing just that for a living. The licenses and insurance, etc etc. Yes you just about have to charge some one $100 bucks to just show up.

And like my friend in Springfield that now can't get CBS (think I am right now), because in a metal walled trailer, UHF penetrates ok, if it's stong, but forget VHF. I have lived in enough of them to know that.

There are a lot of stations which need to fix things, but some of them are more willing or more able than others. I think WBRA-DT is either going to drag it out until donations slow down too much, or if Mobile DTV takes off, will find out very quickly that low-VHF doesn't work for it and thus they'll move. I don't think WBRA-DT is permanently staying on channel 3, but I think they're going to waste a lot of time and money before they get to their final resolution.

- Trip

From the stations around me, most have totally lost the attitude that their decision if it was bad is good, backed by FCC facts and figures, and real world reception be damned. Many are way past it, like WESH was from the beginning, WTLV/WJXX quickly figured it out and even now WNBW no longer says 4.9 KW with a their null cutting into half their city of license is ok.

I think now it's mostly can they get approved and do they have the funds. I think we are past the point of many VHF stations being in denial, or at least publicly in denial due to pressure from viewers.

I think the Nielsen numbers going up even slightly on OTA has opened a lot of eyes. Like a local chief I spoke with on the phone. At first he took my advice lightly, then more serious, until the last time we spoke about a month ago he basically said yes, you are right, OTA viewership is going up.

You maybe be too young to have really seen it. But was around the generation that went through the 1930's that remembered it well, considering I was born in the early 50's. Habits stuck with them. There are households that have dropped cable that will not go back.

Combine that with what I think cable (satellite) channels programming going down hill. I watch cable only channels a lot less than I did 10 years ago.

Even many channels that intrigued me at one point no longer hold my interest.

It also reminds me of what happened to FM radio by the mid 1980s. No matter how many channels there were in a town, there were 3 formats. PBS, Rock and Country. It has gotten better since then but still in a lot of towns it's still the same with variations, including the build out of religious stations on the low end of the band.

So much of even the information stuff has become purely entertainment. I used to watch the Food Network a lot. Now I just watch Alton Brown as he is one of the few that really show you how to cook, not entertain you with cooking. As some one said, America with it's frozen dinners, eatting out, etc, cooking has become a spectator sport. I really like to cook, hence one show on that network worth watching.

I used to like to watch the MSNBC news line up, but it's not the same anymore. Chris Mathews is more biased than ever. Keith had become the left wing's O'Reilly. I still watch Rachel Maddow, as she covers stuff often skipped by all the other cable news shows. So that has reduced me that was a cable news junkie, to watching one hour and if I miss it, so what? CNN that was good place is now just a Tabloid News Network. With Anderson Cooper the biggest fake of all meaning he is sensationalist not an investigative report as he is billed. FOX News to me is just a good laugh.

I really feel sorry for you missing PBS, because that is the only place I get much real news, Frontline, NOW, Bill Maher talk about things corporate America wants silenced. I also watch C-SPAN sometimes on the weekends, but I listen to it, not watch.

All the shows I watch to relax, I watch on OTA channels. (I also count when I watch OTA channels on DirecTV from Orlando as watching OTA networks).

Another grandpa story, but back in the day 30 year ago before any cable existed around me. There was an hour or so of good TV on a day that interested different people's taste. We went and did other stuff. 24/7 AV input was not wanted or needed. Some how the 300 channels now makes us think, there must be something on that is good.

Different folks have different channels, but I think there is a trend toward most folks watching a few select cable channels for a few select programs.

And actually adding in the internet, except for sports games, there is not much to miss by not having cable channels.

I believe those that come up with packages use a lot of data, run them through good programs or just smart marketers. The goal is to put enough of the must have channels even if that list for say 10 demographical types of people are 5 channels each spread across enough tiers. Hence, if you can afford it the only way to get all 5 channels you want is to buy the highest or nearly the highest tier.

This type of marketing is easy to use when there is a lot of disposable income. Take that income away, and the game fails for many people. Play the game long enough and some of the people get sick of it anyway, regardless of income. I am getting to be in one of those classes. There are days now I never use the satellite, and wonder why I even pay for it. That there are number of things to do around the house, on the computer, outside in the yard that I would not even miss them and wish I had more free time.

I must like to type too much because once again, I drug one topic right into another one. I am not curable...... :@)

DVRs are bring back a lot of very selective viewing.

Falcon_77

05-18-09, 10:57 AM

Seriously though, Falcon_77 or Trip, have either of you been keeping some sort of count of how many maximization applications the FCC has acted on yet?

I show that 218 maximized apps have been granted, but not yet constructed.

As for maximization requests, I have not been tracking that count directly (only by way of 387's, but many aren't noted there). However, there are at least 126 maximized applications pending FCC approval.

Calaveras

05-18-09, 11:28 AM

Combine that with what I think cable (satellite) channels programming going down hill. I watch cable only channels a lot less than I did 10 years ago.

Even many channels that intrigued me at one point no longer hold my interest.

Since I discovered I can get DTV OTA, probably 95% of what I watch is now OTA. I only watch a few hours anymore on satellite and I have only the basic HD package plus locals. The locals are a backup for OTA until the transition is totally complete. The antenna for my NBC affiliate is in a temporary location and is difficult to receive here, bad multipath and sensitive to temperature inversions. That's supposed to change to what I know is a favorable tower by August so that should no longer be a problem. My PBS station is the weakest one here but is moving from 53 to 9 so I'm hoping for some improvement but there's no way to know until I monitor it for a few weeks after June 12th.

I only watch a few hours per week on satellite now so at roughly $3 per hour that is very expensive TV! I refuse to pay for the higher tiers to get another 2 or 3 channels. If OTA goes as I hope, I'll eliminate satellite. If I have to put up with a few missed programs due to temperature inversions causing signal loss, then so be it.

Tower Guy

05-18-09, 03:37 PM

MSTV has several lists of DTV transition status.

1. All stations and transition dates sorted by callsign
2. Stations changing channels sorted by callsign
3. Stations that are already DTV only sorted by callsign
4. Stations pre-approved for analog Nightlight service

http://www.mstv.org/

Trip in VA

05-18-09, 06:21 PM

I... think WSAH-DT is going to withdraw their channel 41 petition. I'm not 100% clear what the "Settlement" in this bit of paperwork is about. Can I get one or more additional opinions?

http://fjallfoss.fcc.gov/cgi-bin/ws.exe/prod/cdbs/forms/prod/prefill_and_display.pl?Application_id=1312836&Service=LD&Form_id=346&Facility_id=60554

I know this post got lost in a sea of other messages, but can anyone else read that and see if I'm interpreting it properly?

- Trip

nicoge21

05-18-09, 06:52 PM

That rabbit ears site you have trip is useful, thanks for having it up. I added it to my bookmarks for safe keeping.

PinkSplice

05-18-09, 07:55 PM

super snip

Piggie, it sounds like your OTA experience has turned into "Alas, Babylon". :)

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alas,_Babylon

You're just north of Mt. Dora...and my grandaddy had a house on Lake Harris.

Falcon_77

05-18-09, 11:13 PM

I... think WSAH-DT is going to withdraw their channel 41 petition. I'm not 100% clear what the "Settlement" in this bit of paperwork is about. Can I get one or more additional opinions?

It certainly looks that way. However, I don't understand why WSAH appears to be giving up on 41 and why they are signing this agreement. It's as if they are giving W60AI Class A rights over WSAH.

MTB agrees that: (a) it will not file with the FCC any objection to the Ventana Modification Application or to the subsequent application for a license to cover the construction permit issued upon a grant of the Ventana Modification Application, and (b) it will not file without Ventana’s written approval, to be given or denied in Ventana’s sole discretion, any future Petition for Rule Making or other filing with the FCC seeking the authorization of Channel 41 for use by WSAH-DT, and will bind its successors and assigns, to the extent permitted by law, to assume this obligation to make no such filing.

Trip in VA

05-18-09, 11:35 PM

That's what had me confused. WSAH has the right to evict W41DO-D (W60AI) from that channel. It didn't make sense to me.

And nicoge: I'm glad you enjoy it. :)

- Trip

Piggie

05-19-09, 01:22 AM

Piggie, it sounds like your OTA experience has turned into "Alas, Babylon". :)

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alas,_Babylon

You're just north of Mt. Dora...and my grandaddy had a house on Lake Harris.

I read that book in 1965 at about age 12 right after the Cuban Missile crisis, where the sky literally was filled with bombers and fighters, fueled, armed and ready to end the world. Squadron after Squadron of B-52s from then McCoy AFB (now Orlando International), B-47s from MacDill in Tampa. I don't think anything ever touched the ground for days except the refueling tankers. They remained very low also, so it was a constant roar of jets going overhead even at night, if you could sleep. They stayed about 1000 ft up so Soviet radars in Cuba could not see them up at Orlando.

I got 3/4 of the way through the book. it scared me into total shock, and to this day I have never finished the book. I should. I don't think I spoke for days.

To me the book was very real as I had just seen it all almost happen. People didn't go to work that day when it peaked. Most of the neighborhood was outside on the streets talking to each other. After all we knew living 10 miles north of Martin and about 15 from McCoy there would be at least 2 nukes hit Orlando. No where to hide, didn't want to hide.

I am sure that period of time cause at least a mild case of post traumatic syndrome in me.

I remember in high school, that if someone suggested something risky or stupid, if it wasn't too stupid, it was why not, we all be dead at any moment anyway.

Odd you bring that book back up. No my OTA isn't anywhere near that bad!

I live a long way north of Mt Dora. There are a dozen or more towns in Florida that start with Orange. Even a couple very near me. So people often get my town mixed up for others.

Weird...... bad memories.........

Sammer

05-19-09, 04:29 PM

It appears that WTAE Pittsburgh has been granted an engineering STA to operate a digital translator on RF channel 22 to fill in coverage of WTAE 4.1, 4.2, RF 51 in the Allegheny Valley.

Trip in VA

05-20-09, 12:18 AM

Add KAID to the list of stations wanting DTS.

- Trip

Piggie

05-20-09, 02:37 AM

Add KAID to the list of stations wanting DTS.

- Trip

What is DTS and why would someone want this? :@)

moghedien14

05-20-09, 09:33 AM

What is DTS and why would someone want this? :@)

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Distributed_transmission_system

Falcon_77

05-20-09, 10:57 AM

I am now current with the Form 387 filings, CP grants, and Licenses to Cover.

# 1222: operating Post-Transition facilities
# 222: with maximized Construction Permits but otherwise ready (included above)
# 839: to end analog operations early (before 6/12/09)
# 822: have already ended (or will not commence) analog operations (included above)

Of note is that KFJX ended analog ops. unexpectedly, due to storm damage, but filed that DTV ops. on 13 have commenced. KOAM reports that they are now on 7 as they were previously on 13. It appears that KFJX has a sub on KOAM as a backup as well. KFJX is at 4.5kW on 13, but was at 5000kW on analog UHF. KOAM is at 14.8kW, so perhaps this helps them reduce shortfalls in coverage.

http://www.fox14tv.com/

UPDATE: Due to severe storm damage to the KFJX-TV analog antenna, KFJX-TV was forced to cease broadcast operations on analog channel 14 Thursday afternoon, May 14. You will be able to continue to watch FOX 14 on digital channels 14.1 and 7.2.

Piggie

05-20-09, 12:40 PM

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Distributed_transmission_system

Danke Schöen

foxeng

05-20-09, 05:13 PM

DTV NOTES
Stations Prepare For Soft Analog Shut-Off Test Thursday
Stations will simulate shut-off three times during the day
By John Eggerton -- Broadcasting & Cable, 5/20/2009 9:22:15 AM MT

Related: The DTV Countdown: Complete Coverage of the DTV Transition (http://www.broadcastingcable.com/channel/DTV_Countdown.php)

The National Association of Broadcasters says stations are gearing up for tomorrow's soft analog shut-off test. All the networks and their owned stations are participating, as are stations in all but a handful of markets, according to the FCC's database, with the rest still "pending."

Most stations will simulate the analog shut-off--happening for real on June 12--three times during the day, airing either a text slate or a video explaining the transition. Generally the tests will come at 7:30 a.m., 12:30 p.m. and 6:30 p.m., and will last from two to five minutes.

NAB says 400 stations have already conducted soft cut-off tests. According to Shermaze Ingram, NAB's senior director of media relations for the DTV transition, the tale of the DTV transition tape breaks down this way: 972 stations will transition on June 12, while 788 stations have already made the transition. Of those 788, 213 went before Feb. 17, the original analog cut-off date, 416 pulled the plug on Feb. 17, and 159 will have done so sometime between Feb. 17 and June 12.

The FCC said Tuesday that the test would be a "wake-up" call.

http://www.broadcastingcable.com/article/233069-Stations_Prepare_For_Soft_Analog_Shut_Off_Test_Thursday.php

Falcon_77

05-20-09, 08:24 PM

What is DTS and why would someone want this? :@)

The main advantage I see with DTS over translators is that spare channels tend to be sparse. It's hard for many stations to fill in gaps in coverage when there are less than a handful of available channels (I don't count 2-6 as being viable for LD's).

holl_ands

05-21-09, 10:36 AM

What is DTS and why would someone want this? :@)
DTS (Distributed Transmission System) is a new feature that allows DTV stations to
broadcast from multiple locations. To save spectrum, an on-channel (F1-F1) Repeater
(aka SFN, Single Frequency Network) spits out the same signal with a very small delay
(looking like multipath....sorta....but might not work very well with older tuners).

The current "Big Stick" can be supplemented by a number of (probably lower power)
repeaters to fill-in areas blocked by terrain.
For example, homes in canyons along I5 north of L.A. (e.g. near Santa Clarita)
are in a coverage hole, as are many homes located along the coast (e.g. Malibu)
between Santa Monica and Oxnard-Ventura, see attached examples....and Northward....

============================================
Terrain blockage isn't much of a problem at your location in Florida....

============================================

PinkSplice

05-21-09, 05:50 PM

DTS (Distributed Transmission System) is a new feature that allows DTV stations to
broadcast from multiple locations. To save spectrum, an on-channel (F1-F1) Repeater
(aka SFN, Single Frequency Network) spits out the same signal with a very small delay
(looking like multipath....sorta....but might not work very well with older tuners).

The current "Big Stick" can be supplemented by a number of (probably lower power)
repeaters to fill-in areas blocked by terrain.
For example, homes in canyons along I5 north of L.A. (e.g. near Santa Clarita)
are in a coverage hole, as are many homes located along the coast (e.g. Malibu)
between Santa Monica and Oxnard-Ventura, see attached examples....and Northward....

============================================
Terrain blockage isn't much of a problem at your location in Florida....

============================================

Trunking for TV?

Trip in VA

05-23-09, 01:18 AM

Ever wanted to look at past allocation changes? Combine the Docket numbers in this new spreadsheet I spent all day putting together with the ECFS page and you can!

http://www.rabbitears.info/PRMs.ods

http://fjallfoss.fcc.gov//prod/ecfs/comsrch_v2.cgi

- Trip

TalkingRat

05-23-09, 12:49 PM

Trip, the first link is broken.

Trip in VA

05-23-09, 01:06 PM

Try it now. Software bug on my end; showed it as having uploaded when it didn't. :o

- Trip

gjvrieze

05-23-09, 04:20 PM

Try it now. Software bug on my end; showed it as having uploaded when it didn't. :o

- Trip

That worked Thanks! Any reason for leaving KAAL out of the list?

Trip in VA

05-23-09, 07:44 PM

That worked Thanks! Any reason for leaving KAAL out of the list?

Because KAAL hasn't filed any petitions. They elected channel 36 in the channel elections and the allotment is settled. What isn't settled is where they'll be transmitting from.

- Trip

Piggie

05-23-09, 07:52 PM

DTS (Distributed Transmission System) is a new feature that allows DTV stations to
broadcast from multiple locations. ...............

============================================
Terrain blockage isn't much of a problem at your location in Florida....

============================================

Thanks for the feedback. After I read it, it was daaaa on me, I asked this same question about 6 months ago.

Our terrain ain't mountains, but I am two-edge to Jax and Orlando stations. Orlando is my DMA but Jax stations are closer, many have me just inside their contour.

dline

05-25-09, 02:03 PM

Well, it looks like the KTCI issue in Minneapolis-St. Paul is solved, according to the Northpine.com website. They're all but certain to get 23, soon to be vacated by the local CW station's analog, but they'll need to apply for a new construction permit. The proposal will also have to survive a 25-day comment and reply comment period.

They didn't want to stay on 16 because its range is limited. And according to FCC documents (.pdf (http://hraunfoss.fcc.gov/edocs_public/attachmatch/DA-09-1125A1.pdf)), they didn't want to buy KMSP-DT's soon-to-be vacated 26 because they probably wouldn't be allowed more than 50 kW. So they hoped to move to channel 38, which is being vacated by WDSE-DT in Duluth, but apparently the public TV powers-that-be in Duluth have designs on 38 for another service, in addition to their broadcast on what will be DT 8 after June 12.

Their hope has been to finally make KTCI and KTCA somewhat more equal in coverage; in fact, both stations are branding and mapping their channels to "2.x," dropping references to KTCI's channel 17.

Trip in VA

05-25-09, 11:14 PM

While an NPRM is nice and is usually a good sign, it's definitely NOT certain, given a certain country that borders us to the north and is known to be a pain to coordinate with. I'm assuming KTCI has to coordinate.

They actually did plan to buy the KMSP-DT 26 gear and operate it as-is, but then WHWC-DT 27 objected and said that it would cause them interference, and the FCC agreed. Thus the channel hunt that ensued.

- Trip

Trip in VA

05-26-09, 12:14 AM

Wow, check out the WWPX-DT DTS app. This is fun. Wonder what it means for the 51 petition?

- Trip

Falcon_77

05-26-09, 10:58 AM

At first glance, I don't know why this will be needed since WPXW's 1000kW CP should cover the areas in question.

afiggatt

05-26-09, 11:31 AM

At first glance, I don't know why this will be needed since WPXW's 1000kW CP should cover the areas in question.
Yep, more than a little odd. My comments on this in the Washington DC- Baltimore thread:

If I read it correctly, I find the DTS application to be bizarre. They want to put a 100 Watt VHF 12 transmitter in NW DC? What will that do for WBAL-DT 11 and WJZ-DT 13 reception in NW DC? I am in the coverage area of the proposed WWPX2-DTS application and I have no difficulty in getting WWPX-DT Ion 60 on VHF 12 from the backend of a YA-6713 upper VHF antenna aimed the other way at DC. I was also able to get WWPX-DT pretty reliably with a CM 4221 UHF antenna, also aimed the other way. WWPX-DT is not a weak station here, although there may be gaps at the lower elevation green spots in the map attachment in their application.

WWPX-DT 60 has the same exact programming as WPXW-DT 66, soon to be blasting at 1000 kW on UHF 34 out of NW DC. The only reason I can see for this DTS application is to get WWPX-DT 60 a stronger presence in the DC market (and maybe cable carriage?) to enhance the value of the station to try to get someone to buy WWPX. I bet Ion realizes that the petition to move to DT 51 at a new location is not likely to be granted, so this is their plan B.

Piggie

05-26-09, 02:08 PM

Wow, check out the WWPX-DT DTS app. This is fun. Wonder what it means for the 51 petition?

- Trip

So this is not for their main transmitter?

http://fjallfoss.fcc.gov/cgi-bin/ws.exe/prod/cdbs/forms/prod/cdbsmenu.hts?context=25&appn=101311013&formid=301&fac_num=23264

Or which application did you mean? Just trying to lurk quietly for once, but got lost again in the filings.

afiggatt

05-26-09, 03:21 PM

So this is not for their main transmitter?
...
Or which application did you mean? Just trying to lurk quietly for once, but got lost again in the filings.
Scroll down the application form and look for for DTS Site Number 2 which is for the highly directional 100 Watt transmitter in NW DC. DTS Site 1 is their main transmitter which has been on the air at 23 kW on VHF 12 for some time. The Comprehensive Technical Exhibit PDF link near the bottom of the application gives a better picture of what WWPX-DT is asking for. I do not see any mention of possible interference with or from WBAL-DT 11 or WJZ-DT 13 in Baltimore in their filing.

dewster1977

05-26-09, 08:56 PM

IMO it would make more sense for the DC stations to put a DTS site on Braddock or South Mountain to cover the western areas Hagerstown and Martinsburg blocked by the mountains. I get WWPX with rabbitears 30 miles away without LOS

Trip in VA

05-26-09, 11:24 PM

It's definitely a plan to make it more attractive to potential buyers. There's no question in my mind. However, it might be a contingency filing in case the DT-51 goes nowhere, rather than acknowledgement that it's dead. It makes the station more attractive to buyers as soon as it's approved, rather than waiting for the rulemaking process.

- Trip

Trip in VA

05-27-09, 12:20 AM

So, I've gotten lots of questions asking about my first day at WDBJ.

The word I will choose is "amazing." I can't wait to get there tomorrow morning. I felt right at home.

I started off by chatting with the transmitter engineer, who was at the front desk. I am going up to see the transmitter with him on Friday, and I can't wait. He seems like a great guy, like everyone else I met at WDBJ.

Then Alan came and led me back to get the tax paperwork and whatnot handled. After that, I found a home for my lunchbox and umbrella, then sat in master control. There was so much going on, the master controller was an extremely nice and extremely knowledgeable woman who just went on and on about all the gear and what it did. It was way more than I could take in all at once, but tomorrow morning I'm going to sit in there again and try to get it better. I've thought of some questions to ask her.

At noon, I was led to the news control room. I forget the actual name for it, but it's where the switching is done for newscasts. Saw the noon news, and that seems like it's really stressful to put together. Four people in the control room, all trying to work on their own piece of the huge puzzle. I would not want to do that every day.

Then I had lunch. Went and sat with someone who I believe said he puts together ads. Nice chat until he had to go get some work done.

Then I chatted with a guy who was working on some of the electronics and had spent some time in Charlottesville. Another great conversation, then I sat in the master control some more.

At 2, I met Jeff Marks, the general manager. That was a great meeting; I'm reminded of myself when talking to him. I am really looking forward to talking with him more in the future.

Then I floated around with Alan looking at some of the gear in the rack room. Lots of interesting stuff to look at in there. By this time, the master control shift was changing, so I met some more folks who work at WDBJ in master control. There was also a fun EAS test about an avalanche.

By the end of the day, I was wiped out. But I seriously cannot wait to get there in the morning. I'm off to bed very soon. :)

- Trip

foxeng

05-27-09, 07:57 AM

At noon, I was led to the news control room. I forget the actual name for it, but it's where the switching is done for newscasts.

"Production Control" maybe? :D

FOX TV

05-27-09, 09:46 AM

Dr Touchtone

05-27-09, 10:03 AM

I am sure you are almost overwhelmed by now, and there is much more to come. I guess you will have to wait until the rain stops to get into your "Real Job", because its "hard to wax a satellite dish in the rain." By the way, the tower camera dome needs cleaning, do you climb towers too? LOL !!::D

Thought he had an umbrella...that takes care of the rain issue in either case :)

justalurker

05-27-09, 10:40 AM

I guess you will have to wait until the rain stops to get into your "Real Job", because its "hard to wax a satellite dish in the rain."He gets to wait until it stops raining? Lucky guy. When something needs to be done I rarely get to wait for better conditions. :)

TalkingRat

05-27-09, 11:02 AM

Trip, thank you for sharing your first day with us. What a wonderful summer you will have, it sounds like you, and they, will have a great time. I miss those youthful days, when I could absorb information like a sponge. ;)

goldrich

05-27-09, 12:30 PM

So, I've gotten lots of questions asking about my first day at WDBJ.

Congrats on your new summer job at WDBJ. Wishing you a great experience.

And I've attached a screenshot of WDBJ-DT that I took on the morning of Aug. 4, 2008 in Indianapolis at a distance of 374 miles, thanks to some strong tropospheric conditions to the ESE. On occasion, the signal really gets out!

Steve

Dr Touchtone

05-27-09, 12:44 PM

"Production Control" maybe? :D

Likely Master Control.....unless they have a separate news switcher, which is usually resevred for top10 or 20 markets.

foxeng

05-27-09, 02:29 PM

Likely Master Control.....unless they have a separate news switcher, which is usually resevred for top10 or 20 markets.

We are market 46 and we have a whole separate production area with producers, TD's, graphic people and audio people so WDBJ may have a Production Control separate from Master Control.

Desert Hawk

05-27-09, 02:36 PM

Trip, you should beg them to let you be the person to push the off button on the analog transmitter on Juse 12!

HIPAR

05-27-09, 07:06 PM

Congratulations to Trip on his meaningful and educational summer job. :)

--- CHAS

foxeng

05-27-09, 07:07 PM

DTV Notes
DTV Transition On Tap For June 3 FCC Meeting
Hard date still set for June 12

By John Eggerton -- Broadcasting & Cable, 5/27/2009 3:21:12 PM MT

The FCC has announced the agenda for its June 3 open meeting and, like Acting Chairman Michael Copps' first meetings atop the FCC, it will focus on the DTV transition.

In this instance, with the analog plug-pulling date of June 12, it will be a status report on final preparations for "the digital television transition, including the availability of consumer support and hands-on assistance for those who may need it."

Nielsen said Wednesday that 3.1% of TV homes, or about 3.1 million, remain "unready for the switch," down 200,000 homes from mid-May. The National Association of Broadcasters has taken issue with Nielsen's accounting, pointing out that some of those homes may have DTV-top-analog converter boxes that just aren't hooked up yet.

http://www.broadcastingcable.com/article/277141-DTV_Transition_On_Tap_For_June_3_FCC_Meeting.php

dline

05-27-09, 07:31 PM

Likely Master Control.....unless they have a separate news switcher, which is usually resevred for top10 or 20 markets.I've been around stations in an upper-70s market and a low-80s market, and it's pretty much standard there, too. Master control switching tends to be a lot more rudimentary than what you see on the newscasts. MC is primarily dealing with switching what program is on the air, be it network, satellite, pre-recorded program, or commercial cart machine/server -- and perhaps more importantly, making sure the station stays on the air. In most cases, they're also able to put news and weather crawls on the air when asked or alerted. But when it's news time, they toss control to the production control room, which is essentially another program source on their switcher. That's where they put together all the camera shots, supers, graphics, effects, etc.

That's not to say you couldn't switch a newscast through master control if the production switcher goes down (I've done it a time or two in my life), but you usually won't be able to do quite as much.

Trip in VA

05-27-09, 07:57 PM

Thanks for all the positive wishes!

Thought he had an umbrella...that takes care of the rain issue in either case :)

Hahaha, to all of you. :D

Likely Master Control.....unless they have a separate news switcher, which is usually resevred for top10 or 20 markets.

It's definitely a separate production room. It's a different physical room from master control; I would know. ;)

Trip, you should beg them to let you be the person to push the off button on the analog transmitter on Juse 12!

I can't imagine them letting me, but I do hope to be there when it happens. I need to remember to ask about that. :)

I plan to write about day two a bit later in the evening.

- Trip

Scooper

05-27-09, 08:20 PM

Shoots Trip - You're an Internet celebrity - Rabbitears is one of the best places on the web for TVinfo (at least the best compilation of the FCC data). Maybe they would even do a piece on you :D

Trip in VA

05-27-09, 08:46 PM

Approved today:

KWSE-DT (51 to 11), WISE-DT (19 to 18), KSWT-DT (16 to 13).

- Trip

jspENC

05-27-09, 08:59 PM

Trip in VA

05-27-09, 09:17 PM

I've decided to record these things as much for myself as for you guys. I regret not recording other greatly enjoyable things I've done in the past, so I'm not making that mistake again.

Day Two:

Walked in the door bright and early at 8:10. Since this was the first day using the bus system, I was not going to take the chance of being late and thus got out the door VERY early. I will continue to do this in the future, because I have no qualms with arriving early, and the woman whose room I'm renting drives the bus that goes by at 7:15.

Arrived to the very nice MCO working on the Early Show and on segmenting some other programs for air later in the day and over the weekend. I watched and whatnot until I was asked to check the audio on a group of promos. There was an audio problem with most of them and I just had to identify the ones with the issue and note them on the paper. Took care of that relatively quickly.

I forget exactly what occurred through the morning, but I didn't leave master control. I remember explaining cell phone technology differences (WiMax vs LTE) to one of the guys there, and otherwise standard monitoring things.

At noon there was an EAS test, which I observed come in off the EAS gear. Then at 1 there was an EAS test for 7-1 and at 1:40 one for 7-2.

Shortly before 2, a Flash Flood Watch came in. A short time later, a Flash Flood Warning came in. She got the go-ahead from whoever makes that call, then ran the warning. After Robin Reed got in, he had it aired again right after 2.

Then I was called back into the rack room. I helped Alan pull two cables to fix the aforementioned audio problem on another piece of gear. There are a LOT of cables under that floor. :eek:

After that, it was back to master control for the rest of the day. After the MCO shifts rotated, I was more involved. Another warning came in around 4:30 and he had me handle the HD on 7-1 (flipping it to the upconvert) and the stuff for 7-2 while he handled the primary SD feed and the crawl itself. I also did a bit of work with the automation software.

I'm rather hesitant to touch anything related to the programming live on the air, like the automation stuff. It's very intimidating knowing that if I screw something up, thousands of people see it. I'm slowly trying to get into it though, we'll see. Perhaps tomorrow I'll ask to try my hand at segmenting a show.

Friday I go up on Poor Mountain. I can't wait. :D

- Trip

jspENC

05-27-09, 09:32 PM

At noon there was an EAS test, which I observed come in off the EAS gear. Then at 1 there was an EAS test for 7-1 and at 1:40 one for 7-2.

Shortly before 2, a Flash Flood Watch came in. A short time later, a Flash Flood Warning came in. She got the go-ahead from whoever makes that call, then ran the warning. After Robin Reed got in, he had it aired again right after 2.

Then I was called back into the rack room. I helped Alan pull two cables to fix the aforementioned audio problem on another piece of gear. There are a LOT of cables under that floor. :eek:

- Trip

Just those things right there would have been the same to me as if I was a kid in a candy store!:D

I learned something new. I always thought the weather folks were the ones running the EAS crawls, or at least that is what I was lead to believe. Maybe it's different in every area. It's interesting too that some stations leave the watches and warnings on all the time, while others only put them up in intervals.

ChrisC47

05-27-09, 10:19 PM

I've decided to record these things as much for myself as for you guys. I regret not recording other greatly enjoyable things I've done in the past, so I'm not making that mistake again.

Absolutely, take the time to do that. I started a personal blog years ago for that purpose. It has a very small number of readers, but it's not for them, it's for me :)

I helped Alan pull two cables to fix the aforementioned audio problem on another piece of gear. There are a LOT of cables under that floor.

A few years ago we standardized on Belden 1694 for ALL signals (SDI, HD-SDI, L-band, ASI, etc.) in our plant, as it has excellent performance (and is priced accordingly) and made it that much easier to deal with connectors and crimp kits. But our floors get jammed up after a while, especially at choke points like at the intersections of aisles. So just this month we started using Belden 1855 for short runs; it's got pretty awful performance compared to 1694 but it's Good Enough for most digital runs, and FAR slimmer in cross section.

Dr Touchtone

05-28-09, 12:32 AM

Absolutely, take the time to do that. I started a personal blog years ago for that purpose. It has a very small number of readers, but it's not for them, it's for me :)

A few years ago we standardized on Belden 1694 for ALL signals (SDI, HD-SDI, L-band, ASI, etc.) in our plant, as it has excellent performance (and is priced accordingly) and made it that much easier to deal with connectors and crimp kits. But our floors get jammed up after a while, especially at choke points like at the intersections of aisles. So just this month we started using Belden 1855 for short runs; it's got pretty awful performance compared to 1694 but it's Good Enough for most digital runs, and FAR slimmer in cross section.

The old FOX Sports TOC in Houston was the same way....all Belden 1694 and good for digital as well as analog (but the entire plant had gone digital anyway 1 year before I worked there)...Not sure what the new plant in the Woodlands has...I need to ask the Director of Engineering, who I know, about it..Im feel pretty sure they stayed 1694 Belden...a lot of radio stations have gone Cat 5 wiring for their audio now...it works great in balanced analog and digital modes...and of course, the video transmitters have been broke for years ;)
(old joke with a TV crew in same market once while I was filming a High School football playoff game at the Astrodome on a video camera...and the TV crew looked over and saw the camera had a radio station bumper sticker on it...I winked and said "our video transmitter died a while back and noone complained" :eek: They got a chuckle out of that....we ended up delivering their tape back to the studios 90miles away as we were heading straight back to town and they wanted to party after the game)

Dr Touchtone

05-28-09, 12:35 AM

Rabbit ears rocks! I checked it out last night and saw a lot more interesting stuff that I didn't the last time I had visited it. Trip congratulations on your new job! Sounds like a lot of cool stuff your learning. My head would be spinning!

Tripp's site is better than any other similar site on the web hands down...it provides much more accurate and detailed information and is current....like 100,000watts.com DID before it was sold and went private...and then the information flow got turned down...I quit that site after a few months...it sucked!

gjvrieze

05-28-09, 10:10 AM

Tripp's site is better than any other similar site on the web hands down...it provides much more accurate and detailed information and is current....like 100,000watts.com DID before it was sold and went private...and then the information flow got turned down...I quit that site after a few months...it sucked!

Adler_187 and I are trying to help Trip out with TS data as much as possible, simply, because I love Rabbitears, it is up to date and has a great amount of info.

Piggie

05-28-09, 01:45 PM

I've been around stations in an upper-70s market and a low-80s market, and it's pretty much standard there, too. Master control switching tends to be a lot more rudimentary than what you see on the newscasts. MC is primarily dealing with switching what program is on the air, be it network, satellite, pre-recorded program, or commercial cart machine/server -- and perhaps more importantly, making sure the station stays on the air. In most cases, they're also able to put news and weather crawls on the air when asked or alerted. But when it's news time, they toss control to the production control room, which is essentially another program source on their switcher. That's where they put together all the camera shots, supers, graphics, effects, etc.

That's not to say you couldn't switch a newscast through master control if the production switcher goes down (I've done it a time or two in my life), but you usually won't be able to do quite as much.

I have only worked in Gainesville Market which is over 100 depending on who is rating, and we did it that was also exactly. The one thing different was we put on crawls (back in the 1980's) on Studio A's production switcher, by keying in the Chyron through the production switcher. We didn't have the ablitly at all to put crawls on from MC. So if we were on net, the MC would switch from direct net to the output of the production switcher. Someone from production would have to run to the Chyron (in the room with the production switcher), then run to the MC room and tell them to switch to thier source if the MC wasn't wearing his headphones, which he never did unless we were in local news and had to listen to production.

The worst trouble we had with the MC operators (low pay, low mentality where I worked), was staying on the air. Rules were if there were thunderstorms over the transmitter (it was remote from the studio) to fire up the generator and switch to it. That also kept us half the year from having to scheduled maintenance turn ons of the generator. From May to Oct there are enough thunderstorms it was switched on or supposed to be probably 3 days a week or more. It never failed. He would forget to turn on the generator, thus we would be off for a couple minutes while it came up to speed and he switched to it's power.

dline

05-28-09, 01:48 PM

A note of interest from the Quad Cities (IA/IL) area:

While they haven't filed anything yet with the FCC, public television station WQPT's analog transmitter failed earlier this week. The Moline station's GM told the Dispatch/Argus newspapers (link (http://qconline.com/archives/qco/display.php?id=441441)) that the transmitter will not be repaired at this late date. He said it would cost $20K to fix, so it must have been something big like a tube failure or something like that.

In any event, they've suddenly joined the digital-only ranks.

Piggie

05-28-09, 01:58 PM

I've decided to record these things as much for myself as for you guys.
Friday I go up on Poor Mountain. I can't wait. :D

- Trip

So they are still on the air? Ok, someone had to be smart rear end. Leave that to the pig in the group.

I want to go up to Poor Mountain! I looked it up on Google Maps months ago. But I don't think I can make Roanoke in time to go with... invited of not! :@)

Great Trip. Pulling cables is good for the soul! When we built Studio B at WCJB, the Asst Chief made us do the bundles with black tie string (forgot the industry name) where you tie it off. He hated tie wraps because he said every year they have to be replaced. Back then he was right. I used to pray for the news dept to break a camera or VCR so I could stop winding that dang string around cables. Pulling cables in a new rack or studio was the easy part as nothing was in the way. We had that done in a couple days but wound string for a couple weeks, as it was a side job when nothing was on the bench. Makes you appreciate the destructive nature of the news crews, lol.

Another thing I realized was those sloppy news crews made my job. 75% of the stuff I fixed they broke. But unlike most of the other engineers I made buddies with the news people and taught them a lot about taking care of the equipment. It actually reduced repairs as their dept head got more serious about making them be more careful with the gear (unless there was a rush to get the latest murder, house fire, robbery on the air, lol).

Piggie

05-28-09, 02:03 PM

Adler_187 and I are trying to help Trip out with TS data as much as possible, simply, because I love Rabbitears, it is up to date and has a great amount of info.

Note to Trip and others:

The Listings area is the bomb! It's faster to put a call sign in it than the FCC query. Because once you put in a call on Trip's Listings page, you have all the links you need right at hand.

Suggestion to Trip. The one thing I wish I could see when I view the entire market (without opening a particular station) is the network. People on forums says I can't get CBS from Kalamazo for example and then I have to figure out which station is CBS by opening most of them. Tell me I am lazy, I know it!

Best station listings on the internet and a nice guy too! :@)

Trip in VA

05-28-09, 06:17 PM

Adler_187 and I are trying to help Trip out with TS data as much as possible, simply, because I love Rabbitears, it is up to date and has a great amount of info.

I'm sorry I haven't yet answered your last e-mail. You probably observed that I've posted the data, I just haven't had a chance to deal with my e-mail, plus there's an issue with the site e-mail script suddenly not working.

Note to Trip and others:

The Listings area is the bomb! It's faster to put a call sign in it than the FCC query. Because once you put in a call on Trip's Listings page, you have all the links you need right at hand.

Suggestion to Trip. The one thing I wish I could see when I view the entire market (without opening a particular station) is the network. People on forums says I can't get CBS from Kalamazo for example and then I have to figure out which station is CBS by opening most of them. Tell me I am lazy, I know it!

Best station listings on the internet and a nice guy too! :@)

:D

As for your suggestion, I've actually thought of that but am unsure how to do it. I have a couple of ideas, but remind me and I'll pick at it a bit this weekend.

I'll be posting about day three some time later in the evening.

- Trip

gjvrieze

05-28-09, 06:24 PM

I'm sorry I haven't yet answered your last e-mail. You probably observed that I've posted the data, I just haven't had a chance to deal with my e-mail, plus there's an issue with the site e-mail script suddenly not working.

:D

As for your suggestion, I've actually thought of that but am unsure how to do it. I have a couple of ideas, but remind me and I'll pick at it a bit this weekend.

I'll be posting about day three some time later in the evening.

- Trip

No problem, I am sure you are busy, I know how it is starting out! Glad to see the data on the site though!

Trip in VA

05-28-09, 08:53 PM

Day Three:

Yet another exciting day. Met another MCO in the morning and chatted with her for a while. At one point she had a problem and only hit the button to start the commercials on the SD and not the HD (or the other way around, I forget). On top of that, the automation skipped an ad, so the HD and the SD ended up being more like 30 seconds apart. It was corrected quickly. :)

Then it was up to the roof. Climbed on the roof with the maintenance engineer to replace a GPS antenna (for time sync purposes). He pointed out the various antennas and whatnot on the roof to me and explained what everything was. He found that the BNC connector had completely come off the cable for the GPS antenna, so he went inside to get a new connector. Upon coming back on the roof, he found it was the wrong connector and this time had me come back in with him. We searched around for a connector but couldn't find one. He left me at master control while he looked for Alan. He never came back and got me to go back up on the roof, so who knows.

Things were rather uneventful in master control until 2PM. During that time, I helped with gathering the last of the tapes from the library to make sure they'd all been checked for audio issues.

At 2PM, WDBJ is supposed to show a live 1-minute feed from WTVR in Richmond of the lottery drawing. This is what we noticed just as it was about to go on the air:

http://data.quelorant.com/luckynumber.jpg

So, it was stuck at 43 seconds. The whole signal was just gone; apparently WTVR's uplink failed. So this resulted in a black screen going out for the duration of the time the lottery was supposed to air. Since there's an obligation to air it, phone calls were made and there was a resulting scramble to try to get it on the air during the 2:30 break. I don't really know what I'm doing in there, so I just stayed out of the way.

During this scramble, weather warnings started coming in. So now there was an attempt to juggle the weather warnings and the lottery mess. Around 2:35 they fed it again (successfully) for airing around 3. The lottery was supposed to rerun on 7-2 at 2:30 but despite the MCO having removed it from the rotation, the automation software decided to cut to black anyway. Then upon finally getting the recorded lottery drawing loaded in to air at 3, it died at 30 seconds on the HD feed only (the SD was fine) and so that cut to black again.

But by 3, everything was back to normal and things were back on track. There were a few more weather warnings to put on which I assisted with, and then I hung around til 5:30. I caught a ride home with the receptionist who didn't want me going out on the bus with the flooding in Roanoke. She said that since she goes right by where I'm living on her way home, she'd be glad to take me home in the future. That saves me 45 minutes on the bus and the price of using the bus for the trip home. :)

Tomorrow I go up on Poor Mountain. People keep telling me to take my camera but I keep having to say I don't have one! My phone does not make a successful camera, as noted by my lottery picture. I hope to go up there again before the summer is out, so we'll see.

- Trip

Trip in VA

05-28-09, 09:15 PM

Oh, and the FCC issued an NPRM for KACV today. The station wants to take over KFDA-DT's channel 9 facility after the transition.

- Trip

Larry Kenney

05-29-09, 01:10 AM

Day Two:

I'm rather hesitant to touch anything related to the programming live on the air, like the automation stuff. It's very intimidating knowing that if I screw something up, thousands of people see it. I'm slowly trying to get into it though, we'll see. Perhaps tomorrow I'll ask to try my hand at segmenting a show.

Friday I go up on Poor Mountain. I can't wait. :D

- Trip

It's really interesting to read your observations of what goes on there at the station. You're observing and doing what I used to do for the last five years of my work at KGO-TV/DT prior to retirement. If all goes well, it's "a piece of cake", but when those EAS tests have to be done, weather alerts or whatever come in, and you have put them on the air along with crawls and so on, without losing or covering any commercials, it can get rather busy. I also hated when sports ran over and I had to join a program in progress and have it come out on time. Then there are the times when the server crashes and all hell breaks loose! Arrrrrggg!! There's a lot of learning to do, and I know you can do it!

I got a good chuckle out of your comment about being hesitant to touch anything because thousands of people see it. What do you think when you're working on RabbitEars? I bet your "audience" is bigger there than at the TV station.

I know you're going to have a lot of fun this Summer... and learn a lot too!

Larry
SF

Dr Touchtone

05-29-09, 03:57 AM

Tomorrow I go up on Poor Mountain. People keep telling me to take my camera but I keep having to say I don't have one! My phone does not make a successful camera, as noted by my lottery picture. I hope to go up there again before the summer is out, so we'll see.

- Trip

Personally I thought the camera shot off a video screen was PRETTY good for a camera phone...take it and take some shots...you'll be happy you did anyway! :) I took some when I was out in Colorado three weekends ago...I know the camera in the 3MP mode could not even do justice to the view at Silverthorne where the sky in the west was still DEEP blue, the snow on the mountain tops and the sun JUST starting to peek over the mountains to the east....illuminating the peaks to the west...OH it was a painting in the sky!! The camera just didnt catch the view right (I tried with a couple of shots)...but MY eyes did :)

gjvrieze

05-29-09, 11:39 AM

BTW, another interested in Poor Mountain should check out this:

http://www.fybush.com/sites/2008/site-081031.html

Trip in VA

05-29-09, 08:01 PM

I got a good chuckle out of your comment about being hesitant to touch anything because thousands of people see it. What do you think when you're working on RabbitEars? I bet your "audience" is bigger there than at the TV station.

Thanks. :)

Well, RabbitEars is mine. And it's not making any money. If I break something on RabbitEars, no big deal. If I break something at WDBJ, it's other people's money on the line and upset phone calls to the station.

Personally I thought the camera shot off a video screen was PRETTY good for a camera phone...take it and take some shots...you'll be happy you did anyway! :)

I took a few; I'll post them with the day's update. They didn't turn out very well at all. Next time, I'm bringing a camera. :D

- Trip

afiggatt

05-29-09, 08:33 PM

Only two weeks until June 12! Are you ready for the big day? Chaos as the last analog holdouts take to the streets and demand the analog get turned back on? :D

Anyway, based on Falcon_77's May 20 DTV spreadsheet, if my Excel calculations are correct, there are 198 stations remaining that will be moving their digital broadcast to VHF, 175 to upper VHF, 23 to low VHF. The biggest post June 12 question mark many of us face is the reception of the stations that are flash cutting to VHF. There are, again by my counting of Falcon_77's spreadsheet, already 268 digital stations on upper VHF, so a number of medium sized to smaller markets have a major station on upper or even lower VHF for people there to check their antenna setup with. But NYC, LA, Philly, DC, Detroit, Baltimore, and others will get major upper VHF digital stations for the first time.

Too bad we can't get Nielsen survey numbers on how many digital OTA viewers have brought UHF only antennas and are not aware that one or more of their local stations will be flash cutting to upper VHF or even low VHF. In DC, to their credit, WUSA-DT CBS 9 has been running scroll messages on the digital broadcast channel warning that WUSA will be moving to VHF, although the message does not say to VHF 9. I have not seen or heard that the other 3 stations in my reception area that will be moving to upper VHF have been posting warning messages. Might have missed that however. Any opinions on how well stations doing the flash cut to VHF have been warning viewers about it?

Falcon_77

05-29-09, 08:50 PM

Any opinions on how well stations doing the flash cut to VHF have been warning viewers about it?

I have seen absolutely no warnings of this kind locally. It's quite rare to even hear about the analog > digital band change warnings that they are required to have. Some stations just put a little note about it on their website, if they have done anything at all.

It certainly appears that there are no requirements to warn existing DTV viewers of band changes, only analog viewers.

Of course, the PSA's say to have a UHF/VHF antenna and to scan/re-scan, so perhaps they think that covers it.

I termed this the "Hidden Transition" previously, but it still seems to be going largely un-noticed.

SnellKrell

05-29-09, 09:09 PM

WNBC PSAs here in the New York DMA specifically mention the switch (from VHF 4) to
UHF (Channel 28).

One of the few good things the station has done.

Promos are better than the shows!!!!!

Scooper

05-29-09, 09:20 PM

1 Station here is moving (from UHF 52 to Upper VHF 11) - I have no idea if they are advertising that because I don't normally watch them. All my other stations are moving from UHF to UHF, and it's going to be a cluster as they have picked different times in the day to move. 2 stations are doing their moves at 1PM (or so) (one of these is the channel 11), most of the others look to be around midnight. The ones that just have to turn off analog are also not known to me, since they are already on their final digital. No lower VHF digitals here (thank god) - I guess the other stations are saving that for the LPs (or it may just be abandoned).

narkspud

05-29-09, 09:37 PM

If I break something at WDBJ, it's other people's money on the line and upset phone calls to the station.

As my supervisor once said to me after I blew the entire midbreak of a top-rated soap and got chewed out by the CE ...

"Oh well, it's just television."

It wasn't my fault ... the clock I was watching had stopped.

Sounds like things in Master Control haven't changed as much in the last 12 years as I'd thought. :D

(And remind me to tell you about the entire bowl of Spaghetti-os I dumped on the head drum of a 1" VTR.)

Trip in VA

05-29-09, 11:19 PM

(And remind me to tell you about the entire bowl of Spaghetti-os I dumped on the head drum of a 1" VTR.)

Oh my. :D

Day Four:

Up to the mountain! Scott the transmitter engineer got there shortly after I did this morning, and after a bit of floating around, we left. I don't think he stopped talking all day, not that I'm complaining. He had a lot of interesting things to say and there was lots to hear.

Upon arriving at the top of the mountain, Scott checked out the transmitters and noticed that half of the analog transmitter was off, which because of the way it's configured, had the transmitter at 20% output (more than 6 dB down). He looked behind the transmitter and checked the breakers on the back, all looked fine. He eventually called Alan to come up and look at it, but then remembered there's a breaker on the front, which was the problem. Then it came right up. Alan decided to come up anyway.

Then a guy came to look at the tower. Apparently, WDBJ wants to have both towers painted, and so we walked with the guy up to the towers and looked at them. Alan came and joined us and more looking at the tower commenced.

Anyway, after that, Alan and Scott both looked at the transmitter. They seem to be expecting that half of the analog transmitter might fail before June 12, but we'll see. If that happens, Scott says he can reconfigure it to do 50% of full power. (It's actually just a power supply that's failing, but there's no point in swapping it out and doing all the extra work for less than two weeks.)

Finally he was able to show me the building. There was an apartment in the building that was manned at one time, and he showed me the basement where two ham repeaters are active. There's one on 2m for packet and an FM one on 442.500 MHz. We also went in the transmitter room for WSLQ-FM, which for those who don't know, is the most powerful FM station on the east coast, at either 150 or 200 kW ERP (I can't remember which is correct). I think it was actually louder than the digital TV transmitter.

Then it was lunch time. We ate lunch and discussed broadcast issues. He wanted to do some maintenance on half of the digital transmitter after lunch. So he called down to Alan and asked if he could take the half down, and was told to wait until 1:30 (after Y&R). We prepped, and then 1:30 got there.

At 1:30, he took half of the transmitter down. That knocked the power down by 3 dB, so most people shouldn't have noticed it. We opened it up, tested a meter he thought was dead (it wasn't) and then replaced some bad bulbs that lit the meters. We also cleaned the displays on the meters. Then we closed it up.

He powered it back up and let it warm up for a couple of minutes before turning it back on. He waited until the "Ready" light came on the front, then put it back online. He was satisfied with it, then we walked toward his office in time to hear a loud "CLUNK" as the whole transmitter shut down. Apparently it lied when it said it was ready. He was good though; I don't think it was off for more than 20 seconds before he had it back up at half power. He decided to run the cold half into the load for a while before putting it back on.

We walked around outside a bit, looking at the property. Got really close to the WSLQ tower--right up to the fence which is to prevent people from cooking under the thing. Then he showed me the roof of the facility. We looked at the various antennas up there along with the view of the valley (and the other towers). I also spent a few minutes on an elevated part of the roof closest to the WSLQ antenna. It got a bit warm there (:D) so then we went back in and put the other half of the transmitter online at 80% power (for a total of 87% power or so). He then bumped it up to 100% when he was confident that it wouldn't shut down again.

Then we walked outside again and up came another truck. It was AVS member FOX TV, engineer at WFXR, who knew I'd be up on the mountain today while he was up there and came to see me. So from 3-5, we all sat in Scott's office and discussed broadcasting issues and stories of equipment issues like the two we'd had earlier in the day.

When we realized it was 5, it was too late to get me back in time for the bus or for a ride back from the WDBJ studio, so FOX TV offered to give me a lift back since he lives about three blocks away. First, we made a detour a few hundred feet down the road to the WFXR transmitter building! Saw that facility, which was much smaller than WDBJ's but amusingly enough had more transmitters in it. Walked around and looked up at the tower, then went down the mountain.

He had 960AM on it to demonstrate that the amount of RF on top of the mountain was insane. WFIR was unlistenable as all kinds of distortion overcame it up there. About half-way down the mountain, it all suddenly went away and there was WFIR.

We chatted about antennas and signals and whatnot on the trip back to Hershberger Road. He asked me if I wanted to see where WDRL's studio was, and amusingly it's within walking distance of where I'm living. Maybe I should drop in one day. Then he came back here to drop me off, and I had him come in and see my antennas and whatnot, and then we chatted outside for a few minutes. Then he left. 6:40PM. I can't complain.

As requested, I took a few pictures on my cell phone, whose battery is on death's door as after a full night's charge, it screamed "LOW BATTERY" at me from about 11AM through the rest of the day. They weren't very good.

www.quelorant.com/data/wdbj

1422 is looking up from behind the transmitter building at the WDBJ analog tower/antenna on the left and digital tower/antenna on the right.

1423 is the WSLQ-FM tower, as seen from behind WDBJ's building.

1427 is looking toward WBRA and WFXR from behind WDBJ's building.

1434 is looking toward WPXR's two towers from the front of WDBJ's building.

- Trip

Dr Touchtone

05-30-09, 07:20 AM

Oh my. :D

Day Four:
Finally he was able to show me the building. There was an apartment in the building that was manned at one time, and he showed me the basement where two ham repeaters are active. There's one on 2m for packet and an FM one on 442.500 MHz. We also went in the transmitter room for WSLQ-FM, which for those who don't know, is the most powerful FM station on the east coast, at either 150 or 200 kW ERP (I can't remember which is correct). I think it was actually louder than the digital TV transmitter.As requested, I took a few pictures on my cell phone, whose battery is on death's door as after a full night's charge, it screamed "LOW BATTERY" at me from about 11AM through the rest of the day. They weren't very good.

Nice to see a broadcaster that stills support ham operations! Also WSLQ is 150KW ERP in the Horizontal plane but 200KW with beam tilt (where the max power is electronically pushed DOWN and not out straight toward the horizon! Beam tilt puts more signal toward the listnerers)...a Superpower FM indeed..200KW at 607m?? Only station that beats it in power is 99.7 in Memphis, WMC owned by Entercomm at 300KW but only 277m...so it has less coverage.
PIctures were good enough :D Thanks for the look.

Falcon_77

05-30-09, 09:27 AM

1423 is the WBRA tower, as seen from behind WDBJ's building.

Thanks for the pics and the update. Very interesting stuff and I'm certainly glad for at least the cell phone pictures as I can now identify the digital tower for WDBJ.

However, 1423 is a pic of WSLQ-FM's tower, right? The other pic of WBRA is further away and has the channel 15 antenna on top.

Trip in VA

05-30-09, 12:05 PM

Thanks for the pics and the update. Very interesting stuff and I'm certainly glad for at least the cell phone pictures as I can now identify the digital tower for WDBJ.

However, 1423 is a pic of WSLQ-FM's tower, right? The other pic of WBRA is further away and has the channel 15 antenna on top.

D'oh! Yes, you are correct. I saw the VHF-looking antenna and jumped to say WBRA. ;)

- Trip

Trip in VA

05-30-09, 01:35 PM

With many thanks to dhett on Radio-Info, RabbitEars now has listings for a number of markets across the South. Apparently, he took a roadtrip to Knoxville from his home in Phoenix, and as such got data for me everywhere along the way. This means I now have completed:

El Paso, Midland, Abilene, Shreveport, Monroe, Jackson, Meridian, Birmingham (except WVTM), Chattanooga, Knoxville (except WVLR).

Check it out and enjoy! :)

- Trip

ziggy29

05-30-09, 02:18 PM

Update on the transition for KCWX (San Antonio DMA) for those keeping score -- was supposed to go digital on RF channel 5 on 6/12 when KENS cuts off the analog signal, but they won't be ready until July 10:

http://fjallfoss.fcc.gov/cgi-bin/ws.exe/prod/cdbs/forms/prod/prefill_and_display.pl?Application_id=1312975&Service=DT&Form_id=337&Facility_id=24316

Reason given: CORRIDOR HAS BEEN ADVISED BY THE TOWER CREW (COAST-TO-COAST) THAT BAD WEATHER IN KANSAS AND TEXAS HAS CAUSED SCHEDULE DELAYS AND THEY WILL NOT BE ABLE TO INSTALL THE KCWX DIGITAL ANTENNA UNTIL EARLY JULY. ALL OF THE DIGITAL TRANSMISSION EQUIPMENT IS AT THE STATION AND ON-SITE EXCEPT FOR THE ANTENNA, WHICH IS IN A WAREHOUSE FOR SAFEKEEPING (THEREBY INCURRING ADDITIONAL COSTS FOR THE LICENSEE). HOWEVER, THE TOWER CREW'S ANNOUNCED DELAY IN INSTALLING THE ANTENNA IS BEYOND THE CONTROL OF THE LICENSEE. AFTER JUNE 12, CABLE SUBSCRIBERS WILL CONTINUE TO RECEIVE THE STATION VIA FIBER FEED.

WA5IYX

05-30-09, 03:29 PM

Thanks for another tidbit to add to my never-ending Saga of Fredericksburg's Ch 2
http://home.swbell.net/pjdyer/fred-2.htm

Dr Touchtone

05-30-09, 04:04 PM

Thanks for another tidbit to add to my never-ending Saga of Fredericksburg's Ch 2
http://home.swbell.net/pjdyer/fred-2.htm

At least they will be off for the VHF/UHF contest that weekend....(Houston's KPRC 2 will NOT as they will run nightlight service for 30 days...count your blessings :)

.-- -... ..... .. - -
.-.-. -.-
:cool:

dline

05-30-09, 04:40 PM

We have this note from extreme northeast Iowa:

The Iowa Public Broadcasting Board has filed a displacement application for its translator in Lansing, IA. K41AD currently transmits in analog on channel 41, but it wants to move to a digital signal on channel 38 to better protect KIMT-DT Mason City, IA (42) and WIFR-DT Rockford, IL (41). WIFR is applying for a power boost, potentially forcing K41AD to give way.

(Lansing is on the Mississippi River about 30 miles south of La Crosse, WI.)

Source: http://fjallfoss.fcc.gov/cgi-bin/ws.exe/prod/cdbs/forms/prod/prefill_and_display.pl?Application_id=1298190&Service=LD&Form_id=346&Facility_id=29112

Falcon_77

05-30-09, 08:51 PM

DTV Spreadsheet Update posted:

# 1233: operating Post-Transition facilities
# 226: with maximized Construction Permits but otherwise ready (included above)
# 842: to end analog operations early (before 6/12/09)
# 833: have already ended (or will not commence) analog operations (included above)

Link in signature.

Desert Hawk

05-30-09, 08:53 PM

I am curious, is spending much time directly under all those transmitters any kind of radiation hazard? Do rabbits and squirrels in the area have elevated rates of cancer?

SnellKrell

05-30-09, 08:59 PM

Not necessarily, but they are sterile and glow in the dark!

Trip in VA

05-30-09, 09:03 PM

I don't know for certain, but I do know there's an area around the WSLQ tower that's fenced off because of high RF.

- Trip

Falcon_77

05-30-09, 10:19 PM

Most of the energy is directed in a narrow beam as respects the elevation pattern. So, right under the tower may only be receiving something like 1% of the max ERP (or less).

Beam Tilt

I had a question regarding the related issue of beam-tilt. KCBS/43 had their CP for 1000kW granted, but the pattern was different from KCAL/43. KCBS will be re-using KCAL's antenna, but I was confused why the pattern was different. It appears that the FCC didn't take beam-tilt into account for KCAL's license, but is for the KCBS CP.

Here is the CP application attachment showing the effect of 1 degree of mechanical beam-tilt (see pages 6 and 7):

http://fjallfoss.fcc.gov/prod/cdbs/forms/prod/getattachment_exh.cgi?exhibit_id=647430&formid=301&q_num=5460

I am trying to figure out why only one side appears to be affected and why the result is so dramatic. Does the FCC pattern assume a flat antenna (no beam-tilt). So, am I reading it right that the NE portion of this antenna has basically no beam-tilt?

Thanks,

Trip in VA

05-30-09, 11:00 PM

I was told WSLQ's antenna isn't terribly efficient and actually does put quite a bit of power toward the ground. Other towers on the mountain you can walk right up to (I stood under WDBJ-7, WDBJ-18, WFXR-27/17) but WSLQ was not one of them.

The FCC uses the horizontal plane rather than the beam tilt, as far as I know. This is how some LP stations managed to get away with a lot of power; they'd file for 150 kW on the horizontal plane and do more than that aimed downward. I think WWME-CA did this.

I'll wait for someone more knowledgeable than I am to chime in on this one.

Oh, and for those wondering, my mom is mailing me the old camera on Monday, so hopefully next time I go up on the mountain, I'll be able to get pictures that aren't blurry and small. :)

- Trip

foxeng

05-31-09, 09:26 AM

I was told WSLQ's antenna isn't terribly efficient and actually does put quite a bit of power toward the ground. Other towers on the mountain you can walk right up to (I stood under WDBJ-7, WDBJ-18, WFXR-27/17) but WSLQ was not one of them.

Stations licensed for FM "super power" (more than 100kw) before 1964 are grandfathered those "super power" levels. Prior to 1964, before there were "class limits" as there are now, you could pretty much run as much power as you wanted since FM was considered a throwaway service thanks to David Sarnoff and RCA fighting to keep FM out of contention since RCA, which made most of the radio and then TV gear, transmit and receive, didn't own the patent on FM and didn't want to pay Major Edwin Armstrong, who did since FM had better audio quality than AM and RCA was trying to launch TV and didn't want any competition against TV. Any station making a change to the pattern of the grandfathered super power, loses that status and must drop to 100 kw. Since antenna technology at the higher frequencies were not well understood prior to 1964 in FM (not a lot of stations), it mostly took raw power to make the super powers hence the antennas didn't use the tighter beams used today. So if the pattern changes, WSLQ would have to drop power to 100 kw. Now you can debate whether a modern antenna would cause that much loss in cover or not, but that is the deal.

There is a station in Michigan that was (still is?) licensed 320kw ERP on FM at 400 ft and in the early days of FM used the aural section of an analog channel 6 TV transmitter to make the TPO since no FM transmitter at the time would make the power required for 320 kw. WRAL FM Raleigh was another super power that gave it up in 1979 when they increased the antenna height from 500 ft at something in the 200 kw range back to 100 kw at 2000 ft. They GAINED a lot of coverage with that drop in power but increase in antenna height and efficiency.

A stations MMV.

WA5IYX

05-31-09, 10:08 AM

It's still listed -
93.7 Grand Rapids , MI WBCT 320.000/320.000 kw, HAAT 238.00/238.00 m
Though for the 30+ years that I've caught it during Es events you'd never know that it had that much ERP.

Piggie

05-31-09, 02:42 PM

Piggie

05-31-09, 02:53 PM

I am curious, is spending much time directly under all those transmitters any kind of radiation hazard? Do rabbits and squirrels in the area have elevated rates of cancer?

Pronounce with a Russian accent "Only Moose and Squirrel"

Actually the Russians have done way more research in this area or lets say they published it. There is little doubt it's not good to be close to these transmitters or tower. But what is too close? No one really seems to know.

Trip in VA

05-31-09, 04:38 PM

I don't know if anyone noticed, but that request by WVUE to return to 29 was dismissed. I'm not sure why, trying to figure it out.

- Trip

Falcon_77

05-31-09, 05:50 PM

Perhaps they need to go through the formal channel change (PRM) process first?

Trip in VA

05-31-09, 05:52 PM

Perhaps they need to go through the formal channel change (PRM) process first?

That's my thought, but I can't find a confirmation.

- Trip

JohnS-MI

05-31-09, 06:55 PM

Pronounce with a Russian accent "Only Moose and Squirrel"

Actually the Russians have done way more research in this area or lets say they published it. There is little doubt it's not good to be close to these transmitters or tower. But what is too close? No one really seems to know.

The FCC and the IEEE have guidelines on RF power exposure. The FCC limits have the force of law. If the antenna pattern is known (vertical plane), you can readily calculate the boundaries at which the rules are met.

RF radiation is non-ionizing (the frequency is a tiny fraction of the frequency of visible light, which is still non-ionizing). So the risk is heating; it can cook you like microwaves. The FCC limits are far below the thermal effect of the sun (discounting the UV portion which can mutate cells and cause skin cancer) so if you feel safe in sunlight (with sunscreen on) you should be OK with the RF.

The Russians do have much tighter limits on RF exposure. Whether they are needed is intensely debated in the field.

Trip in VA

06-01-09, 12:21 AM

Digital Rules

06-01-09, 12:59 AM

I was told WSLQ's antenna isn't terribly efficient and actually does put quite a bit of power toward the ground. Other towers on the mountain you can walk right up to (I stood under WDBJ-7, WDBJ-18, WFXR-27/17) but WSLQ was not one of them.If you enter WSLQ into FM FOOL, the output right at the tower measures an incredible "+68" dbm. If you move 1/2 mile away, it drops to -27dbm.

What is the highest possible dbm value?

dr1394

06-01-09, 06:15 AM

If you enter WSLQ into FM FOOL, the output right at the tower measures an incredible "+68" dbm. If you move 1/2 mile away, it drops to -27dbm.

What is the highest possible dbm value?
Of FM transmitters or all transmitters? Of all transmitters, the EIRP from the 2380 MHz transmitter at Arecibo is 20 TW, or +163 dBm.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Arecibo_Observatory

Ron

dr1394

06-01-09, 06:17 AM

At least they will be off for the VHF/UHF contest that weekend....(Houston's KPRC 2 will NOT as they will run nightlight service for 30 days...count your blessings :)

.-- -.... ..... .. - -
.-.-. -.-
:cool:
Your callsign is W65ITT?

Ron

Digital Rules

06-01-09, 12:31 PM

Of FM transmitters or all transmitters?FM or TV,

Thanks!!

gjvrieze

06-01-09, 12:33 PM

I think that despite what I've been told, TBN is going to flash-cut some of their translators. Las Vegas and Minneapolis have signed on. The latter has the multicast, the former does not yet. W51CW-D and WSFJ still don't have it, to my knowledge.

Keep an eye on your local TBN translator, if you have one.

- Trip

I too wonder about that. I have 3ABN and TBN here in Rochester, which provide a wooper signal to my La Crosse aimed antenna, so I wonder when they will move to digital. One is on RF 56 and the 58.

Since, say K56HW, is out of band, but a translator, does it have to shutdown on the 12th or what is thing with lower power stations... ( it is 75kW ERP analog) I recall translators do not need to shutdown analog, but out of band puts a monkey wrench in place...

TiVoFishMan

06-01-09, 12:59 PM

I don't know if anyone noticed, but that request by WVUE to return to 29 was dismissed. I'm not sure why, trying to figure it out.

- Trip

One of WVUE's engineers is a fairly frequent poster in the New Orleans thread.

I posted a question in that thread to him to comment, if he is able.

dline

06-01-09, 01:06 PM

This note from Spokane, WA, just in from the FCC:

POST-TRANSITION DTV TABLE OF ALLOTMENTS, 47 C.F.R. SECTION 73.622(I), SPOKANE, WASHINGTON. Changed station KHQ-DT's DTV channel from 7 to 15 and changed station KSPS-DT's DTV channel from *8 to *7. Proceeding Terminated. (Dkt No. 08-129 RM-11461 ). Action by: Chief, Video Division, Media Bureau. Adopted: 05/29/2009 by R&O. (DA No. 09-1225). MB

(KHQ is the NBC affiliate; KSPS is a non-commercial station owned by the school district.)

Move will allow KHQ to "construct a maximized facility, which it cannot do on its assigned DTV channel 7. KSPS-DT’s proposed move to channel *7 will allow it to reach more persons than it currently reaches on its analog channel; will cause it to receive less first harmonic interference with co-located FM translators; and will permit it to broadcast digitally on a channel that is fully-spaced to all Canadian stations and allotments."

www.DA-09-1225A1.doc www.DA-09-1225A1.pdf www.DA-09-1225A1.txt

justalurker

06-01-09, 02:34 PM

Keep an eye on your local TBN translator, if you have one.W18CF in Elkhart, Indiana had a Flash Cut CP that expired March 16th.
http://fjallfoss.fcc.gov/cgi-bin/ws.exe/prod/cdbs/pubacc/prod/app_det.pl?Application_id=1115930

I still expect a flash cut at some point and keep checking on my own. I'm looking forward to multicast and hope we get it.

Trip in VA

06-01-09, 07:29 PM

Since, say K56HW, is out of band, but a translator, does it have to shutdown on the 12th or what is thing with lower power stations... ( it is 75kW ERP analog) I recall translators do not need to shutdown analog, but out of band puts a monkey wrench in place...

Translators outside the core can continue operating, but must go silent or immediately displace once the final spectrum owner asks them to vacate. I think they have 30 days after such a notice.

- Trip

Trip in VA

06-01-09, 09:16 PM

Day Five:

I had a lot of trouble sleeping last night and I don't know why. I woke up at 4 and didn't really sleep well again until I got out of bed at 6:30.

So upon arriving this morning I sat in master control for a while. The machine that checks for EVM and whatnot was acting like it was toasted. (Alan later mailed it off.)

Chatted with the MCO and others, then Alan came in. He reported that there were more reception problem reports, and he thought he'd found another reason. He set up the spectrum analyzer and observed a roll off instead of a sharp drop on the upper end of WDBJ-DT's signal. He called Harris and got some advice on things to try and decided to go up in the afternoon.

More sitting around in master control. At 10:50 or so, CBS sent a notice that they'd have an optional press conference from President Obama. About an hour later, they announced they'd give 10 seconds of warning before breaking in (no longer optional). They broke in without warning, and then had to hand it off to the news at noon in the middle of his speech.

After lunch, it was off to Poor Mountain with Alan. Needed to go up there and try the things Harris said to do. So, at the top of the mountain, we spent about two hours poking at the exciter and the transmitters trying a couple of things. He finally concluded that it needed to be tuned, so I'll be going up on the mountain with Scott tomorrow as he tunes the transmitter.

We went back to WDBJ and I spent most of the rest of the day in master control. The evening MCO asked me to come and sit in on one of his shifts, which I think I shall eventually. After sitting in on him during Ellen and the beginning of the 5PM news, I came back here. :)

Oh, and I asked Alan on the way down the mountain about what was going on June 12, and he doesn't yet know because people keep changing their minds. I told him I wanted to be in the room, and he said that sounded fine, so I'm hopeful that it works out.

Here are the pictures I took with my phone today, including a number of images of the spectrum analyzer: http://www.rabbitears.info/gallery2/main.php?g2_itemId=295

Don't miss the "Next" button on the right side.

- Trip

jspENC

06-01-09, 09:29 PM

Cool pics.

About the sleep, I woke up at 2:30 this morning and couldn't go back to sleep. Watched some of Scream 2 on WGN at 3Am. Within 15 minutes, I was gone. ;) Ha Ha!

Falcon_77

06-01-09, 09:47 PM

Here are the pictures I took with my phone today, including a number of images of the spectrum analyzer: http://www.rabbitears.info/gallery2/main.php?g2_itemId=295

WBRA can't even get a level pattern from that distance? It's as-if the tower itself is causing multi-path. I don't suppose they would let you in to check the source? :D

Did it decode?

Trip in VA

06-01-09, 10:07 PM

WBRA can't even get a level pattern from that distance? It's as-if the tower itself is causing multi-path. I don't suppose they would let you in to check the source? :D

Did it decode?

Everyone I've asked says it's probably coming out of the transmitter that way. The answer I was given is that the solid state amplifiers aren't linear. I don't know why they can't seem to fix it.

Didn't try to decode it because there was no decoder hooked to it. I imagine it would have decoded, it's just harder to do.

- Trip

Trip in VA

06-02-09, 12:11 AM

Add a DTS for KHIZ.

- Trip

Dr Touchtone

06-02-09, 03:19 AM

Everyone I've asked says it's probably coming out of the transmitter that way. The answer I was given is that the solid state amplifiers aren't linear. I don't know why they can't seem to fix it.

Didn't try to decode it because there was no decoder hooked to it. I imagine it would have decoded, it's just harder to do.

- Trip

BETTER be linear...otherwise they distort and tear up the signal if they are class C for FM and not AB or B for AM/linear modulation..MOST TV amps ARE linear since the analog also is AM......Thats sounds like a bogus reply to me! Unless someone has screwed with the biasing and it AINT linear anymore but was originally!!! AT which point a good CE would fix it then shoot the rotten SOB who messed with the controls...(unless it was the CE himself then he needs to be put in front of a firing squad! :eek: )

Trip in VA

06-02-09, 06:38 AM

BETTER be linear...otherwise they distort and tear up the signal if they are class C for FM and not AB or B for AM/linear modulation..MOST TV amps ARE linear since the analog also is AM......Thats sounds like a bogus reply to me!

I was told that if one of the solid state amplifiers was damaged, it could be putting out a non-linear signal. I don't see what's bogus about that.

- Trip

foxeng

06-02-09, 08:03 AM

I was told that if one of the solid state amplifiers was damaged, it could be putting out a non-linear signal. I don't see what's bogus about that.

- Trip

If one (or more) of the amps are bad and is causing an imbalance in the combining harness then that could screw up the linearity as well as bad bias. Depends on how that combining harness is made and what the phase shift is suppose to be.

If the combining harness has taken a lightning hit, then who knows what the impedance will look like and how bad the match will be off causing all kinds of nasty linearity issues. Been there. Done that. Got the tee shirt! :D

Dr Touchtone

06-02-09, 09:46 AM

If one (or more) of the amps are bad and is causing an imbalance in the combining harness then that could screw up the linearity as well as bad bias. Depends on how that combining harness is made and what the phase shift is suppose to be.

If the combining harness has taken a lightning hit, then who knows what the impedance will look like and how bad the match will be off causing all kinds of nasty linearity issues. Been there. Done that. Got the tee shirt! :D

OH gawd yes....good point!!! Forgot about that......and have fought that myself!!!

Dr Touchtone

06-02-09, 09:48 AM

I was told that if one of the solid state amplifiers was damaged, it could be putting out a non-linear signal. I don't see what's bogus about that.

- Trip

THEN why would it be still in line?? If it is an amp in a modern TV transmitter, they can remove the stage that is damaged (hot swappable and all that)....I FAIL to see why they would leave it online/inline/onair IF they knew it was damaged and causing issues....again, bogus answer..someone just doesnt want to fix it, it appears...and that will get them a fine from the FCC.

dline

06-02-09, 01:08 PM

I don't know if anyone noticed, but that request by WVUE to return to 29 was dismissed. I'm not sure why, trying to figure it out.

- TripAVS member cat lady posted this in the New Orleans thread:

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=16566461#post16566461

According to the post, the station apparently filed the wrong form for the job.

justalurker

06-02-09, 06:14 PM

THEN why would it be still in line?? If it is an amp in a modern TV transmitter, they can remove the stage that is damaged (hot swappable and all that)....I FAIL to see why they would leave it online/inline/onair IF they knew it was damaged and causing issues....again, bogus answer..someone just doesnt want to fix it, it appears...and that will get them a fine from the FCC.The station is still at the *IF* stage ... trying to figure out what the problem is. Kinda hard to tell from this far away ... fortunately they have qualified engineers on site. :)

Trip in VA

06-02-09, 08:10 PM

The station is still at the *IF* stage ... trying to figure out what the problem is. Kinda hard to tell from this far away ... fortunately they have qualified engineers on site. :)

WBRA? The signal's been like that for months. Maybe longer; I don't know.

Speaking of transmitters, I can't wait to type up my day. :)

- Trip

Trip in VA

06-02-09, 09:45 PM

I'm so tired from the day that I've decided not to write it up completely tonight. What I will say:

Before we got to the top of the mountain, we stopped at a little convenience store in Bent Mountain where Scott gets snacks and whatnot for the transmitter building. Stand outside the door and you can clearly see the towers on Poor Mountain; it's very close. Anyway, apparently roughly 10 people had looked at the TV and converter box there and could not figure out why the picture looked so horrendous. I opened up the menu, moved it from channel 3 to channel 4, and voilá, clean picture. WBRA-DT 3 was getting into the TV and interfering with the converter box. Moved it to channel 4 and all was well.

I'm quite excited that I got to have my hands on the transmitter today, and it was quite awesome. :D Even though we ended up staying a little bit late to get it all done.

Finally, I think I'm going to stop posting these things here as they're wildly off-subject. I'm still writing it all down (eventually), just not putting it here anymore. I hope everyone understands. :)

But I do plan to continue posting pictures, once I take some more.

- Trip

Scooper

06-02-09, 09:50 PM

mrvideo

06-02-09, 10:33 PM

Anyway, apparently roughly 10 people had looked at the TV and converter box there and could not figure out why the picture looked so horrendous. I opened up the menu, moved it from channel 3 to channel 4, and voilá, clean picture. WBRA-DT 3 was getting into the TV and interfering with the converter box. Moved it to channel 4 and all was well.

Wild guess here... because they are known to be channel 15, how could they know that it was really on channel 3 now? I really do hate the channel number not really being the channel number (in most cases).

Finally, I think I'm going to stop posting these things here as they're wildly off-subject. I'm still writing it all down (eventually), just not putting it here anymore. I hope everyone understands. :)

So, create a blog page on rabbit-ears and post your daily "blogs" there. Even if you don't publically link it (not sure why not), at least you'd post the link here and we'd all bookmark it.

But I do plan to continue posting pictures, once I take some more.

You really do need to get a real 10 Mpixel camera. :D I still do not believe that in this day and age you do not have a real digital camera.

Post them on your blog as well.

Trip in VA

06-02-09, 10:40 PM

Wild guess here... because they are known to be channel 15, how could they know that it was really on channel 3 now? I really do hate the channel number not really being the channel number (in most cases).

We'll have to agree to disagree overall on PSIP, though you are right in this case.

So, create a blog page on rabbit-ears and post your daily "blogs" there. Even if you don't publically link it (not sure why not), at least you'd post the link here and we'd all bookmark it.

I'm actually worried about how much stuff I should post publicly. I'm going to address it with some people there tomorrow (if they're around) and let everyone know.

You really do need to get a real 10 Mpixel camera. :D I still do not believe that in this day and age you do not have a real digital camera.

I don't ever use a camera. If I do, it's at home, where there's a camera easily accessible. Cameras never even cross my mind.

My mom is sending me the old digital camera. 1600x1200.

- Trip

mrvideo

06-02-09, 10:59 PM

We'll have to agree to disagree overall on PSIP, though you are right in this case.

You prefer that stations not really be on the channel they are claiming to be on? That is the new kind of math that I do not care for. If this is the case, then yet, I'll certainly agree that we disagree on this :D

I'm actually worried about how much stuff I should post publicly. I'm going to address it with some people there tomorrow (if they're around) and let everyone know.

Umm, since when is posting on AVS Forum not public? :rolleyes:

I don't ever use a camera. If I do, it's at home, where there's a camera easily accessible. Cameras never even cross my mind.

My Nikon D80 is pretty much strapped to me. There are only a few times when it is not with me.

My mom is sending me the old digital camera. 1600x1200.

Old is right :D :D :D

Funny thing is, that sized image is not that long ago. I've gone through two Sonys (6 and 8 Mpixel) before getting the Nikon (10 Mpixel) and it was only a 5-6 yr span. The tower construction pictures were done with the Sonys. I left the 6 Mpixel with the crew when I went on a business trip and they took a few shots from the top.

TalkingRat

06-02-09, 10:59 PM

Finally, I think I'm going to stop posting these things here as they're wildly off-subject. I'm still writing it all down (eventually), just not putting it here anymore. I hope everyone understands. :)

But I do plan to continue posting pictures, once I take some more.

- Trip

I really enjoy reading about your summer job. I hope the station oks it for public consumption, and wherever you blog, just let us know. Maybe worst case, the station checks the public version to be sure there are no trade secrets :p or maybe they just want to see the disclaimer you are already using.

Cool that you got to be the CECB troubleshooter.

Trip in VA

06-02-09, 11:08 PM

You prefer that stations not really be on the channel they are claiming to be on? That is the new kind of math that I do not care for. If this is the case, then yet, I'll certainly agree that we disagree on this :D

I think using the analog channel numbers that people are used to is less confusing to the public overall.

Umm, since when is posting on AVS Forum not public? :rolleyes:

That's my point. That's why I've reconsidered.

I'm not expecting it to be a problem, I just want to be sure. I don't want to get yelled at, or worse.

My Nikon D80 is pretty much strapped to me. There are only a few times when it is not with me.

Old is right :D :D :D

Funny thing is, that sized image is not that long ago. I've gone through two Sonys (6 and 8 Mpixel) before getting the Nikon (10 Mpixel) and it was only a 5-6 yr span. The tower construction pictures were done with the Sonys. I left the 6 Mpixel with the crew when I went on a business trip and they took a few shots from the top.

Yeah. It's a poor camera. It's one of the ones with the sliding front and the lens part that has a motor to move it in and out. The problem is that the catch on the sliding front is completely gone and so it has to be held open or the lens retracts itself immediately. It's rather annoying, but my parents are not sending me the good camera for obvious reasons.

- Trip

Trip in VA

06-03-09, 12:16 AM

Apparently, you can use the word "folks" in an FCC filing.

http://fjallfoss.fcc.gov/cgi-bin/ws.exe/prod/cdbs/forms/prod/prefill_and_display.pl?Application_id=1315508&Service=TV&Form_id=910&Facility_id=33764

"[...] THE LICENSEE ESTIMATES THAT THE NUMBER OF FOLKS WATCHING THE STATION'S ANALOG SIGNAL OVER-THE-AIR IS NEGLIGIBLE."

- Trip

acesk8er

06-03-09, 10:37 AM

Apparently, you can use the word "folks" in an FCC filing.

http://fjallfoss.fcc.gov/cgi-bin/ws....ility_id=33764

"[...] THE LICENSEE ESTIMATES THAT THE NUMBER OF FOLKS WATCHING THE STATION'S ANALOG SIGNAL OVER-THE-AIR IS NEGLIGIBLE."

They also use the word "BLOWN", don't you get fined for saying that on the air??? ;-)

Falcon_77

06-03-09, 11:24 AM

I opened up the menu, moved it from channel 3 to channel 4, and voilá, clean picture. WBRA-DT 3 was getting into the TV and interfering with the converter box. Moved it to channel 4 and all was well.

Interesting. This is probably (or at least will be) a rare occurrence, considering very few full power stations will be on 3. Most of the ones that will be on 3 were also there for analog, so they should be more aware of the need to use 4 vs. 3. I wonder how many others in the Roanoke area have experienced this problem even as they can't get WBRA on their digital tuners... at least they get the "noise" on 3. :rolleyes:

On the bright side, considering domestic consumer RF modulators can't usually use any channels but 3 and 4, it provides another reason to drop those two channels, especially when the viewer doesn't know that stations might be there (thanks to virtual channels). Only 8 full power stations are to be on 3/4.

foxeng

06-03-09, 12:56 PM

DTV Notes
FCC Says 35 Stations To Go Dark June 12
Seven of the stations are major network affiliates
John Eggerton -- Broadcasting & Cable, 6/3/2009 9:17:02 AM MT

The FCC said Wednesday that 35 full-power TV station now broadcasting in analog have said they will be ceasing operation entirely on June 12, when all full-power stations must transition to digital.

Of those, 20 are owned by one company in bankruptcy and seven of the 35 stations are affiliates of a major network.

The FCC said it would try to reduce the number that would go dark, saying some would be available on the subchannel of another digital station.

That news came at the FCC's public meeting Wednesday on the status of the DTV transition.

Eloise Gore, associate bureau chief of the FCC's Media Bureau, clarified that 10 of those stations have already gone dark. She said that 17 of the stations were dark because of technical problems, with 18 going dark for financial reasons.

http://www.broadcastingcable.com/article/277999-FCC_Says_35_Stations_To_Go_Dark_June_12.php

foxeng

06-03-09, 12:58 PM

DTV Notes
FCC Asks For More Call Center Funding
Needs $10 million from NTIA
John Eggerton -- Broadcasting & Cable, 6/3/2009 6/3/2009 9:19:35 AM MT

The FCC is going to need some $10 million dollars more from the National Telecommunications & Information Association for the FCC's DTV transition call center.
That is according to Andrew Martin, FCC chief information officer. Currently the commission has enough money to fully staff its call centers--4,000 trained operators--only for three or four days past the June 12 cut-off date, but predicts it may need them for another week or so.
NTIA has $25 million that it could transfer to the FCC, but will need to do that within the next nine days. The FCC has already requested the extra money.
Republican FCC Commissioner Robert McDowell asked Dr. Bernadette McGuire-Rivera, Associate Administrator, of the NTIA's Office of Telecommunications and Information Applications, said the Secretary of Commerce had not yet made that decision, but thought he would be favorably disposed.

http://www.broadcastingcable.com/article/278001-FCC_Asks_For_More_Call_Center_Funding.php

afiggatt

06-03-09, 02:49 PM

The FCC said Wednesday that 35 full-power TV station now broadcasting in analog have said they will be ceasing operation entirely on June 12, when all full-power stations must transition to digital.

Of those, 20 are owned by one company in bankruptcy and seven of the 35 stations are affiliates of a major network.
35? That is a pretty big number. There are a few satellite stations we know of that opted some time back to do dark rather than spend the $ for digital. But which company is shutting down 20 stations? Why not name the company because if they are shutting down in 8 days, the viewers are entitled to know. :rolleyes:

WMPT-DT PBS 22 in Maryland was granted a STA to increase from 150 kW to 439 kW; WMPT-DT's maximization filing to increase to 516 kW has not been granted. A lot of people have been unable to get WMPT-DT reliably. I emailed engineering at MPT and got a reply within minutes: WMPT-DT will be at the increased power level by next week. I rarely get a lock on WMPT-DT, will be interesting to see what a 4.6 dB increase does for reception.

Falcon_77

06-03-09, 03:31 PM

But which company is shutting down 20 stations?

I suppose they didn't want to name names, but some of the stations are very likely to be on the list found here:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Equity_Media_Holdings

I would like to have seen a list in order to keep the spreadsheet up to date, but it will probably be obvious in a couple weeks.

HIPAR

06-03-09, 06:03 PM

TV is an industry under intense financial pressure. Searched 'tv stations bankruptcy'. Wow .. the number of bankruptcy filings is surprising. I know most stations will somehow stay on the air but I'd be surprised if we lose just 35 of them.

--- CHAS

PA_MainyYak

06-03-09, 06:53 PM

They also use the word "BLOWN", don't you get fined for saying that on the air??? ;-)

It's only okay if the weather guy says it :)

DTV Notes
FCC Says 35 Stations To Go Dark June 12
Seven of the stations are major network affiliates
John Eggerton -- Broadcasting & Cable, 6/3/2009 9:17:02 AM MT

The FCC said Wednesday that 35 full-power TV station now broadcasting in analog have said they will be ceasing operation entirely on June 12, when all full-power stations must transition to digital.

Of those, 20 are owned by one company in bankruptcy and seven of the 35 stations are affiliates of a major network.

The FCC said it would try to reduce the number that would go dark, saying some would be available on the subchannel of another digital station.

That news came at the FCC's public meeting Wednesday on the status of the DTV transition.

Eloise Gore, associate bureau chief of the FCC's Media Bureau, clarified that 10 of those stations have already gone dark. She said that 17 of the stations were dark because of technical problems, with 18 going dark for financial reasons.

http://www.broadcastingcable.com/article/277999-FCC_Says_35_Stations_To_Go_Dark_June_12.php

And let's not forget WPCW in Pittsburgh, PA whose pre-transition channel woes have become legend earlier in this thread. They have to now wait for two analog stations to go off the air. KDKA's analog antenna will have to be removed for WPCW's new channel 11 digital antenna, and WPXI will have to vacate channel 11 before WPCW can use the channel. That would appear to be more than an overnight job for the engineers and tower crews. :)

dline

06-03-09, 08:30 PM

More from Iowa:

Iowa Public Television has filed displacement and flash-cut applications for several translators:

- K33AB, Sibley (northwest IA) wants displacement to a digital signal on channel 26 due to KELO-DT 32 out of Sioux Falls, SD.

- K54AF, Keosauqua (southeast IA) wants displacement to digital channel 26 so it can have a core channel.

- K44AB, Keokuk (southeast IA) wants to flash-cut. It has a pending analog modification permit but now wants to go digital instead.

- K25AA, Rock Rapids (northwest IA) seeks displacement to a digital channel 43 signal due to KCSD-DT 24 from Sioux Falls.

- K14AF, Decorah (northeast IA) seeks a digital displacement channel of 28 due to WXOW-DT 14 in La Crosse, WI, although WXOW appears to be moving to channel 48 at noon on June 12.

These are in addition to K41AD in the northeast Iowa town of Lansing, which wants to move to 38 to protect full power stations in Mason City, IA and Rockford, IL (posted earlier).

dline

06-03-09, 08:41 PM

Meanwhile in Nebraska, the FCC has granted flash-cut applications for several translators of Gray Television-owned KOLN/KGIN (10/11, CBS) of Lincoln and Grand Island, NE, although these permits don't expire until June of 2012.

Trip in VA

06-03-09, 09:03 PM

DTV Notes
FCC Says 35 Stations To Go Dark June 12
Seven of the stations are major network affiliates
John Eggerton -- Broadcasting & Cable, 6/3/2009 9:17:02 AM MT

Cross-posting...

This FCC list is more nonsense (in percentage terms) than most FCC lists.

http://www.broadcastingcable.com/file/3310-SilentStations.pdf

KOBG is waiting for an FCC permit but thinks it can be on the air by June 12 if the FCC acts.
KQET is on the air at full power.
KTDO is on the air under low-powered STA.
KTNC is constructed and ready for June 12.
KARZ is on the air at full power.
KXVA is on the air under low-powered STA.
WLNY is constructed and ready for June 12.
WMAE is on the air at full power but not on their permanent antenna.
WMAV is on the air under low-powered STA.
WMAW is on the air under low-powered STA.

I must be missing something here.

- Trip

ProTuber

06-03-09, 11:16 PM

I think you should start a separate thread, or a blog somewhere. I'm enjoying your writeups about your first steps into broadcasting.

Keep them up.I agree, I'm also enjoying this. It reminds me of the excitement I felt the first time I got to touch TV gear in a station some 35 years ago like setting up an Ampex VR-1200 2" VTR or threading an RCA TP-66 film projector or setting up a Norelco PC-70 camera. To me the main difference between that gear and today's is the swapping of hardware problems for software bugs although in either case you're still at the mercy of the manufacturer for a fix.

Trip in VA

06-03-09, 11:46 PM

Jeff wasn't available today, but I'm scheduled to talk to him at 8:30 tomorrow morning.

- Trip

sebenste

06-04-09, 01:05 AM

Cross-posting...

This FCC list is more nonsense (in percentage terms) than most FCC lists.

http://www.broadcastingcable.com/file/3310-SilentStations.pdf

KOBG is waiting for an FCC permit but thinks it can be on the air by June 12 if the FCC acts.
KQET is on the air at full power.
KTDO is on the air under low-powered STA.
KTNC is constructed and ready for June 12.
KARZ is on the air at full power.
KXVA is on the air under low-powered STA.
WLNY is constructed and ready for June 12.
WMAE is on the air at full power but not on their permanent antenna.
WMAV is on the air under low-powered STA.
WMAW is on the air under low-powered STA.

I must be missing something here.

- Trip

What you are missing, IF the FCC is correct, is that the stations have told them they're shutting off everything as of 6/12. They can't afford to stay on, even those with DTV at full power.

mrvideo

06-04-09, 01:21 AM

I think using the analog channel numbers that people are used to is less confusing to the public overall.

'Tis true, but you know my reasons for not liking it, so it'll stand at that.

It's rather annoying, but my parents are not sending me the good camera for obvious reasons.

The nerve of them wanting to keep their good camera. :D

Trip in VA

06-04-09, 06:45 AM

What you are missing, IF the FCC is correct, is that the stations have told them they're shutting off everything as of 6/12. They can't afford to stay on, even those with DTV at full power.

I've seen no filings supporting that. A number of these stations just installed brand new equipment (KQET, KARZ, KXVA, WLNY, WMAE), why would they now shut it off having spent that money?

- Trip

Inundated

06-04-09, 01:27 PM

Trip, I don't know how I missed your post announcing your Summer Adventure at WDBJ, but congratulations!

dline

06-04-09, 02:55 PM

In case you wonder about these things:

The FCC came out with a notice (http://hraunfoss.fcc.gov/edocs_public/attachmatch/DA-09-1253A1.pdf) clarifying what suffix (if any) a station should use when identifying itself.

Essentially, if they were analog to begin with, their analog callsign will be their digital callsign by default. If it ended with "-TV," it will end with "-TV" in the all-digital realm, unless they want to change it to "-DT."

If they were digital-only before the transition, their callsign would end with "-DT" by default, but they can change it to "-TV" if they want.

Or, they could just drop the suffix entirely, if there isn't a station in another service (such as radio) using the same call letters.

The FCC is not charging stations to register any of these changes.

Trip in VA

06-04-09, 06:00 PM

Trip, I don't know how I missed your post announcing your Summer Adventure at WDBJ, but congratulations!

Thanks!

Chatted with Jeff today and he's fine with everything, so I'm going to find a better home for my daily adventures and will have a link available soon. :)

Finally, we have another petition for rule-making. KBCI-DT 28 in Boise wants to relocate to channel 9.

- Trip

Trip in VA

06-04-09, 06:43 PM

Oh, and KNAZ filed an additional supplement. Apparently the FCC was concerned about a large loss area in Prescott, which KNAZ now provides a remedy for in the form of a digital translator. (Not a fill-in translator, displacing an existing analog translator license.)

- Trip

mdodge

06-04-09, 07:36 PM

Trip, you should beg them to let you be the person to push the off button on the analog transmitter on Juse 12!

I'm making it a point to go to the WEDN-TV transmitter just before midnight and disable the remote control and personally hit the TX Off button on the transmitter. I'm going to turn off the breaker then knock the lever off so even if some politician tries to get the transition delayed again we can't turn the transmitter back on. I started in this business before we had color cameras and have survived all the changes since. Let's get on with it.

CTdish: Want to join me and take pictures? We'll email them to Z. He doesn't believe I'll do that on my night off.

Scooper

06-04-09, 07:52 PM

I'm making it a point to go to the WEDN-TV transmitter just before midnight and disable the remote control and personally hit the TX Off button on the transmitter. I'm going to turn off the breaker then knock the lever off so even if some politician tries to get the transition delayed again we can't turn the transmitter back on. I started in this business before we had color cameras and have survived all the changes since. Let's get on with it.

CTdish: Want to join me and take pictures? We'll email them to Z. He doesn't believe I'll do that on my night off.

I guess you REALLY want to be off the air on analog for good :D

mdodge

06-04-09, 08:23 PM

Most of the energy is directed in a narrow beam as respects the elevation pattern. So, right under the tower may only be receiving something like 1% of the max ERP (or less).

Beam Tilt

Does the FCC pattern assume a flat antenna (no beam-tilt). So, am I reading it right that the NE portion of this antenna has basically no beam-tilt?

Thanks,

The answer to this question is on page 9 of the exhibit. The antenna has mechanical beam tilt not electrical beam tilt. They probably are using a wedge-shaped spacer between the antenna mounting flange and the antenna base plate that physically tilts the antenna (assuming it's a top mount antenna). The antenna is tilted 1 degree from the vertical plane toward 217 degrees True; The reference is the reciprocal, approx. 36T (max power at that azimuth)

ctdish

06-04-09, 09:19 PM

I'm making it a point to go to the WEDN-TV transmitter just before midnight and disable the remote control and personally hit the TX Off button on the transmitter.
CTdish: Want to join me and take pictures? We'll email them to Z. He doesn't believe I'll do that on my night off.

Sure

mrvideo

06-04-09, 09:44 PM

I'm going to turn off the breaker then knock the lever off so even if some politician tries to get the transition delayed again we can't turn the transmitter back on.

Just to spite you, the politician would write into the bill that you had to replace the broken breaker, so that you can turn it back on :D

After shutting it down, immediately disconnect all of the cables, the wave guides, etc and drag the racks out of the transmitter shed. Then claim that someone stole it and you never noticed because it was off :D :D :D

coyoteaz

06-05-09, 03:30 AM

Way too much effort. Just go Office Space on the old analog equipment. And take videos. And provide links to them.

gjvrieze

06-05-09, 10:16 AM

Way too much effort. Just go Office Space on the old analog equipment. And take videos. And provide links to them.

1+, this is the FUN way to get rid of the analogs!

Falcon_77

06-05-09, 10:59 AM

Trip in VA

06-05-09, 01:13 PM

And I am beginning to be proven right: http://www.broadcastingcable.com/article/278443-KXVA_FCC_Wrong_About_DTV_Switch_List.php

- Trip

coyoteaz

06-05-09, 02:20 PM

Commissioner of the FCC should be an elected position. Anyone else willing to put Trip as a write-in candidate? :D

Scooper

06-05-09, 03:18 PM

Commissioner of the FCC should be an elected position. Anyone else willing to put Trip as a write-in candidate? :D

I don't want to punish him that way yet - too early in his career :D

Trip in VA

06-05-09, 06:23 PM

Commissioner of the FCC should be an elected position. Anyone else willing to put Trip as a write-in candidate? :D

I will gladly accept the nomination of the "Sanity Party." :D

- Trip

foxeng

06-05-09, 07:21 PM

DTV Notes
Staggering Toward DTV: June 12 Cut-Offs Vary
NAB says majority of stations will cut off analog signals between 6 p.m. and 11:59 p.m June 12
By John Eggerton -- Broadcasting & Cable, 6/5/2009 11:15:36 AM MT

FCC Acting Chairman Michael Copps always said he favored a staggered analog shut-off strategy. Given the early switches in Wilmington, Hawaii, and the Feb. 17 move of 784 stations, which was the original hard date, It turned out to be something of rolling start after all.
June 12 will also be a rolling start.

According to the latest figures from the National Association of Broadcasters, the majority of TV stations cutting off their analog signals (447) will do so between 6 p.m. and 11:59:59 p.m. on Friday, June 12.

But 175 will have pulled the plug by the time most people get up (midnight-6 a.m.). Another 200 will make the switch between 6 a.m. and noon, leaving the balance (152) turning off the analog switch between noon and 6 p.m.

Among the top 10 markets, three have at least one station going at all four times of day--including the FCC's own home of Washington, D.C.

But there will still be some analog nightlights burning even after June 12. About 100 stations (actually 99 so far, according to the FCC), will keep an analog signal on for up to 30 days after the transition date to transmit DTV transition information.

http://www.broadcastingcable.com/article/278483-Staggering_Toward_DTV_June_12_Cut_Offs_Vary.php

foxeng

06-05-09, 07:23 PM

DTV Notes
FCC Finds More Analog Signal Loss Than Initially Predicted
355 stations now losing more than 2% of their former analog audience
By John Eggerton -- Broadcasting & Cable, 6/5/2009 12:31:46 PM MT

The FCC says more stations than it previously thought would lose at last 2% of their analog viewers when they make the switch to digital June 12.

The FCC initially concluded that 319 stations would lose more than 2% of their analog viewers (stations are also picking up new viewers with digital) as their coverage areas change slightly. That loss triggers an FCC requirement to inform viewers on-air with "geographically specific" information on impending signal losses.

But the FCC Friday said that after recalculation based on new maps and data, 19 of those stations actually didn't have to run the on-air info, while an additional 55 will have to, for a net 355 stations now losing more than 2% of their former analog audience.

It said it planned to release the maps sometime Friday.

According to an FCC spokesman, the FCC has called the newly affected 55 stations, which have to start informing viewers ASAP, starting no later than Monday, June 8, and at least once a day.

The FCC also said that any stations on the new list of 55 that plan to reduce that service loss below 2% on June 13, the first day of all-digital transmission, should let the commission know so they can be taken off the list.

http://www.broadcastingcable.com/article/278505-FCC_Finds_More_Analog_Signal_Loss_Than_Initially_Predicted.p hp

foxeng

06-05-09, 07:25 PM

DTV Notes
Rockefeller Urges Government To Help Consumers With DTV Transition
Sent letters to NTIA, NAB and FCC
By John Eggerton -- Broadcasting & Cable, 6/5/2009 3:17:25 PM MT

Senate Commerce Committee Chairman Jay Rockefeller (D-WVA) sent letters to the major government DTV stakeholders "urging" them to help consumers make the transition to digital June 12, and saying he was still concerned that millions of consumers were still unaware of the transition and were unprepared for its consequences.

It was Rockefeller who pushed for and co-sponsored the bill that moved the DTV transition hard date from Feb. 17.
The letters went to the National Telecommunications & Information Administration, the NAB and the FCC, with Rockefeller tailoring his concerns to each audience.
To the FCC, he raised the issue of potential lack of in-home assistance--the FCC said this week it could handle up to 200,000 such visits through its various subcontractors and volunteers--as well as potential regional converter box shortages and call center surges that might overtax both FCC and NTIA resources.

To the NAB, he asked that it urge at least one station in all 202 eligible markets to keep an analog signal on the air as an informational nightlight. The FCC has said about 100 stations have volunteered to do so, though NAB also has said it continues to encourage other stations to join that group.

"In addition," Rockefeller told broadcasters, "I am concerned that viewers are inadequately prepared for signal losses due to changes in antenna placement and digital signal propagation, and may require notification from local broadcasters to better understand this situation. Furthermore, I fear that in the week ahead there will be a surge of calls to broadcast television stations from local viewers, and worry about the ability of stations to handle these call volumes and assist viewers directly."

To the NTIA, he echoed his concerns about converter box shortages and call center problems.

He asked all three to continue their assistance in the weeks following the transition and reminded them all that TV was not just about entertainment, but included vital news and information as well.

http://www.broadcastingcable.com/article/278533-Rockefeller_Urges_Government_To_Help_Consumers_With_DTV_Tran sition.php

foxeng

06-05-09, 07:27 PM

TV Notes
Hill To Get Earful On Commercial Volume
Bill would require the FCC to set a standard for commercial volume for broadcast, cable and satellite programming
By John Eggerton -- Broadcasting & Cable, 6/5/2009 6/5/2009 4:47:06 PM MT

The House Subcommittee on Communications, Technology and the Internet has scheduled a hearing for June 11 on H.R.1084, the Commercial Advertisement Loudness Mitigation Act (CALM).

The bill, sponsored by Rep. Anna Eshoo (D-Calif.), would require the FCC to set a standard for commercial volume for broadcast, cable and satellite programming.

The idea is to insure that the volume of ads isn't too loud and isn't louder than the surrounding programming.

The bill, according to Congressional Research Service, would prevent commercials from: "(1) being excessively noisy or strident; (2) having modulation levels substantially higher than the accompanying program; and (3) having an average maximum loudness substantially higher than that of the accompanying program."
The bill, which has 28 co-sponsors, was introduced Feb. 13. It was also introduced in the last Congress.

http://www.broadcastingcable.com/article/278547-Hill_To_Get_Earful_On_Commercial_Volume.php

jspENC

06-05-09, 08:23 PM

jspENC

06-05-09, 08:26 PM

jspENC

06-05-09, 08:29 PM

I will gladly accept the nomination of the "Sanity Party." :D

- Trip

I'm all for that party!

ChrisC47

06-05-09, 09:33 PM

According to the latest figures from the National Association of Broadcasters, the majority of TV stations cutting off their analog signals (447) will do so between 6 p.m. and 11:59:59 p.m. on Friday, June 12.

Can someone point me towards this NAB report, if it's public? I'd like to find out what the times are in my market, at least as far as they know. I looked around the NAB site ...

dreater

06-05-09, 09:49 PM

Can someone point me towards this NAB report, if it's public? I'd like to find out what the times are in my market, at least as far as they know. I looked around the NAB site ...
You can find the analog termination information for each station in that station's Analog Termination Information filing with the FCC. These documents live in the Correspondence Folders at the FCC web site:

FCC> Media Bureau> MB-CDBS> CDBS Public Access>

The fastest way to get to these folders is probably using www.rabbitears.info. Go to the Listings; expand the listings for your market; click on "Technical Data and Screencaps," then on "Correspondence" for each station you're interested in. You can then view the individual Analog Termination filings for each station. The station's answer to Question #5 is your answer.

Thanks to TripInVA for rabbitears. It's a great resource.

TalkingRat

06-05-09, 09:54 PM

too slow...

ChrisC47

06-05-09, 10:15 PM

The station's answer to Question #5 is your answer.

Wow, you're right. I thought the article above was talking the results of an NAB survey. Collating the data for my market now ...

wintertime

06-05-09, 10:18 PM

This FCC list is more nonsense (in percentage terms) than most FCC lists.

http://www.broadcastingcable.com/file/3310-SilentStations.pdf

I must be missing something here.

You certainly aren't missing anything when it comes to KQET, Trip. They turned off analog on May 9th and are purring away happily on digital, with absolutely no plans to go "silent" as the FCC list (or more accurately, asst. bureau chief Gore's list) indicated.

I sent a note to the KQET/KQED audience services person; she thanked me for alerting her to the wrong information and went off to escalate the issue. (This isn't just some intern charged with telling viewers "Everything will be okay; now please go away." She's a senior person at KQED--KQET's parent station--whom I've talked with before. So if the legal and engineering departments hadn't already heard about the FCC list, they have now. :-))

Patty

Tower Guy

06-05-09, 11:41 PM

Commercial Volume vs. programming on most stations is out of control. Not sure where the blame exactly goes as stations claim they don't modify volumes on their end, so the commercials apparently are produced too loud.

The problem lies everywhere.

Dolby designed a system that gives program producers control over volume levels. That's fine for a DVD, but doesn't work when switching between works done by different audio engineers. Next, there is no dialnorm standard set for DTV by the ATSC or the FCC. The networks send out programming that doesn't match the dialnorm that they send out. Station owners don't budget for enough test equipment. Few stations have purchased audio processing equipment to fix network inconsistancies. Syndicators use wildly different audio channels assignments and levels. Operators are rushed to get the work done. Training could be better. TV sets change loudness between analog and digital stations. Cable companies don't match audio levels on their systems. Stations are afraid to set a local ad hoc loudness standard for fear of antitrust violations. The only innocent ones are the viewers.

In an analog environment the FCC essentially told stations to control the peak modulation, not the average audio level. Audio processor companies built equipment to limit peak modulation. Commercial producers had their audio engineers remove the peaks, so the average level was louder even after the TV audio processor.

ChrisC47

06-06-09, 12:20 AM

That is the best summary of the problem I've ever seen.

Larry Kenney

06-06-09, 03:57 AM

Excellent summary, Tower Guy!

The problem we had when I was still working prior to retirement was the different levels set for recording the programs, commercials, PSAs, etc. into the server. Some engineer's levels would be hotter than others, so when it came to playback time, the levels weren't consistent.

I can remember that the person who recorded "Wheel" and "Jeopardy" in the early morning tended to set his levels low, so when I played back the shows I had to constantly adjust the levels going to local commercials and back to the program. Our switcher didn't have knobs or sliders for audio... it had push buttons for higher or lower, so controlling the audio quickly was next to impossible.

We tried to tell the guy to set his levels higher, but without backup from management, we got nowhere. Grrrr!

Larry
SF

jspENC

06-06-09, 10:06 AM

Great post tower guy! That helped me understand it a lot.

afiggatt

06-06-09, 05:53 PM

# 1239: operating Post-Transition facilities
# 239: with maximized Construction Permits but otherwise ready (included above)
# 843: to end analog operations early (before 6/12/09)
# 835: have already ended (or will not commence) analog operations (included above)
I did some calculations using Falcon_77's June 5 spreadsheet comparing the analog, current DTV, and final DTV columns. The numbers are likely not exactly correct because of all the permutations in station moves, but I bet they are more accurate than the digital transition station counts the FCC puts out. :D

My counts for DTV moves on or just before June 12:

# 355: stations moving their physical digital channel.
# 190: digital stations moving from UHF to VHF, 167 to upper VHF, 23 to low VHF.
# 325: stations performing a digital flash cut to their analog channel (when the dust settles, ~542 DT stations will be at their original analog channel so a lot of stations have already done the flash cut).

I have also been periodically checking the CDBS applications for all digital stations. There has been a steady stream of low power and translator stations applying for digital allotments and FCC "granted" status showing up in a CDBS search. Has anyone seen numbers or a guess estimate on how many LPs or TXs will either flash cut or fire up a digital channel for the first time around June 12-13? There are already a fair number of digital LPs and TXs showing up as licensed. I am wondering how much of a wave we will see of LPs and TXs switching to digital to go along with the full power transition so they don't get left out when people rescan their converter boxes (or digital TVs)?

foxeng

06-06-09, 06:14 PM

DTV Notes
DTV Shift: Messy but Manageable
Industry leaders expect success, but acknowledge there will be bumps
By John Eggerton -- Broadcasting & Cable, 6/8/2009 12:00:00 AM MT

With only a few days remaining till the much-vaunted, long-awaited, several-months-delayed June 12 hard date for pulling the plug on analog and transitioning to digital TV, most predictions are for a manageable shift. But there will be bumps; some inevitable, some perhaps not.

Acting FCC Chairman Michael Copps says that the commission simply wasn't able to accomplish, in the four months he has been in charge, what the FCC should have been doing these past four years—namely, more outreach and coordination for the effort.

The expected bumps include dealing with procrastinators who have not yet taken the steps to be digital-ready, viewers who have had trouble making the switch for reasons of language or finances, and myriad reception problems that will undoubtedly fall upon people who have done everything the government asked them to do.

According to the FCC, 756 stations have already made the switch, which leaves 1,030 stations, minus a handful transitioning between late last week and June 12.

President Obama weighed in last week, advising late-adopters to get on the stick “before it's too late” and saying that delaying the date allowed community groups “to educate and assist millions of Americans with the transition.” He added that the number of unprepared “has been cut in half.”

FCC commissioners and industry players alike are cautioning that the transition is not so much an ending, as a beginning of dealing with yet-unforeseen issues, along with knowns carrying an impact yet to be determined. On that list is how the first blizzard in Detroit—or unlicensed wireless devices, for that matter—might affect a digital signal more prone to interference than its analog predecessor.

At the FCC hearing on the transition, Copps admitted that his own converter-equipped set, which worked fine in winter, started to experience pixilation when the leaves came out and the wind picked up. David Donovan of the Association for Maximum Service Television said that was one of the challenges of the transition, and suggested that was behind broadcasters' concerns about allowing unlicensed devices to share the DTV band.

The FCC has already had some time to gauge the effect of the switch, given the stations that pulled the plug on analog Feb. 17. But those markets, at the direction of the FCC, still had at least one station remaining on in analog. As of June 12, all but nightlight service—and low-power stations—will be digital.

The general consensus at a June 3 DTV briefing at the FCC was that the sharper pictures, more channels, and spectrum reclaimed for emergency and advanced wireless services more than made up for the inevitable dislocation of some viewers in the transition.

But the “mop-up operation” post-June 12, the briefing continued, will be crucial. That will include identifying where the reception trouble spots are and helping viewers fix them or understand them if they are not fixable.
Keeping the Nightlight On

To help those analog viewers who have not helped themselves to converter boxes or DTV sets, at least 100 stations will keep on an analog nightlight service for up to 30 days past the June 12 date. The FCC was strongly suggesting that other stations join them.

Representatives of commercial and noncommercial broadcast associations have pledged to continue to push more stations to do so, though Donovan points out that it will be at some considerable extra cost.

But the vast majority of viewers have already been educated about what to do, according Jonathan Collegio, vp of the digital TV transition at the National Association of Broadcasters.

Former FCC chairman Dick Wiley, who long pushed for the digital standard and was boasting of the wonders of HD even before there was digital, remains cautiously optimistic that things will go well, but acknowledges that some viewers still won't be ready. Among Wiley's bigger worries is the critical need to quickly identify and help those viewers, a point FCC Commissioner Robert McDowell seconds.
Continued worry

But as with the last hard date, there remains concern, and even some anger, about the way the transition has been handled.

McDowell tells B&C that broadcasters were slow in “taking ownership” of the transition in each market, delaying an effort on the local level to educate viewers about nuts-and-bolts issues like converter box setup and new reception problems.

Amy Brown, president of the Community Broadcasters Association, representing low-power stations whose transition has yet to occur, tells B&C flatly that her stations are being “crushed under the heel of a government that is hell-bent on believing the digital transition is over.”

B&C checked in with a number of stakeholders—political and regulatory as well as industry—to get a final read on what they thought would happen on June 12, when the analog plug is pulled for good. Much of the commentary can be found at www.broadcastingcable.com .
FCC Commissioner Robert McDowell:

“I think the transition will be messy regardless of when it occurs. We need to be focusing now on what will be our mopping-up mode and what we plan to do after the analog shutoff and how we plan to identify those consumers left behind and fix their situation.

I think there are a few things that the industry could have done differently to get people ready. I think earlier on there should have been more ownership within each DMA of that market…a lot of the talk and awareness we're reaching on a very general level, but the actual practical nuts and bolts of how to get yourself hooked up was not always being relayed market-by-market.

There was no rhyme or reason as to which market would be better prepared than another. Some smaller markets would be tremendously well prepared, some larger markets would be less well prepared. So the size or sophistication of the market really had no bearing on their preparedness."

Amy Brown, Community Broadcasters Association, which represents low-power TV stations who face their own DTV transition, though not on the same timetable.

"The CBA’s hope for the June 12th full power DTV Transition is that it will go smoothly and that the American public is not be further inconvenienced by delays or the process as a whole. Full power television operators have now had more than a decade to equip themselves and to prepare the public for this event.

We also hope that over-the-air television viewers across the country will continue to receive accurate and appropriate information about how to watch the thousands of Class A, LPTV and TV translators, which will continue to broadcast in analog after the June 12th full power transition to digital.

The unfortunate reality is that the Government and its partners in the full power DTV Educational Campaign have continued to disseminate inaccurate information about the true nature of the DTV Transition, which is damaging our Industry possibly beyond repair.

The CBA has worked tirelessly to blow back the fog of inaccuracy created by the multi-million dollar campaigns targeted at convincing over-the-air TV viewers that analog TV ends on June 12th. Despite all of our efforts, our Industry is still being crushed under the heel of a Government that is hell-bent on believing that the digital transition is over and a full power industry that has no impetus to provide any additional information other than that which serves their own strategic interests."

Senator Kay Bailey Hutchison (R-TX) co-sponsor of the bill that moved the DTV date
"I am hopeful that the DTV transition on June 12 will proceed smoothly for a number of reasons. By delaying the transition, we have given Americans additional time to prepare for the switch, and the DTV legislation that was approved earlier this year allowed consumers to apply for replacement coupons if they were lost or expired. This was especially important for Texans who lost their DTV converter box coupons when they were displaced during Hurricane Ike.

I was also pleased to see NTIA had eliminated its coupon backlog so that all Americans would receive their DTV convertor box coupons in a timely manner. As a result of fixing the coupon program and also ramping up education and outreach efforts nationwide, we have cut the number of unprepared households by more than half I initially had reservations about shifting the digital television transition without a sound plan to inform consumers or address the converter box coupon shortage, particularly since so much effort, including my own, had been expended informing consumers of the original date. Working with my colleagues in Congress, we were able to address these concerns in order to help consumers whose coupons have expired, and allow TV stations that were prepared to move forward without the requirement of simulcasting. My support for the DTV delay was contingent on not seeking another delay in order to provide needed certainty and bring this transition to a conclusion."

Dick Wiley, former FCC Chairman, and member of the committee that proposed the digital broadcasting standard.

"I think thanks to government and industry there has been tremendous planning and monumental efforts to make June 12 a success. But having said that there are probably going to be some people who are left behind, mostly older, lower income and non-English speaking homes. The key will be to identify those people as rapidly as possible and get them the remedial help that they need, and I think we are set up to do that.

I am looking for reasonably good things on the twelfth. I am no looking for perfect, though I wish it was going to be.

If anybody’s set goes blank, they will probably call their Congressman, but if we can’t make this a success this time, it will never be. I feel cautiously optimistic.

Should the date have been moved? I don’t know and I don’t think anybody can tell. If it comes off perfectly, you can say it is because of the extra four months, or you can say, ‘see,” it would have come off perfectly four months ago.’ I do think the last four months, additional efforts were made and that ought to help. But if you look at the statistics. Well over 98% are aware, but that does mean that one or two percent aren’t aware, so there will be a few problems.

We are going to be way ahead of the world no matter what happens on the twelfth in terms of getting widespread adoption of this dynamic new technology by our population."

Jonathan Collegio, NAB's vice president of digital television:

NAB began a full scale DTV education campaign in 2006, at a time when many in Washington and beyond feared the transition could become a chaotic disaster that would be laid at broadcasters feet. NAB's Board of Directors showed incredible leadership in taking the reigns to ensure that fear would not become a reality.

Now, with more than 98% consumer awareness and 90% of affected viewers taking action, we’re seeing the fruits of our labor. And while we don't expect the transition to be perfect, broadcasters have successfully executed an unprecedented campaign, reaching our goal of making sure no viewer is left unprepared due to a lack of information about the switch.

In the end, no one deserves more credit than the industry that many feared would take all the blame. It's obvious that the power of broadcast television is alive and well and will continue to thrive in the digital age."

NCTA President Kyle McSlarrow:

“Our entire focus for three years has been to contribute to and build on unprecedented cooperation among all affected stakeholders and government to ensure consumers can seamlessly navigate the broadcasters’ digital transition.

We don’t intend to let our guard down now, and will continue to do everything we can to contribute to a successful completion of the transition on June 12th.”

Gary Shapiro, president/CEO, Consumer Electronics Association.
I’ve been working to support the nation’s transition to digital television for 20 years, so to come down to the last week before the final transition and be talking about fewer than 1% of the nation’s households not yet ready is amazing to me.

We have near ubiquitous awareness of the transition, thanks to a barrage of messages on the only medium that really matters to reach viewers now – over the air television. As representatives of the companies that invented DTV, CEA has been working tirelessly to educate consumers about the transition.

When I joined with my colleagues at NAB and NCTA to form the DTV Transition Coalition two years ago, we sat around a table at CEA and talked about how we would measure the success of our effort. We all agreed that inevitably, some consumers would wait until after the transition to take action, but so long as everyone knew what they had to do – whether they actually did it or not – our effort would be a success. I think the unprecedented partnership between the private sector and government on consumer education has been a huge success. Consumers love."

FCC Commissioner Jonathan Adelstein:

"If the DTV transition were a NASCAR race, six months ago, we were lagging behind, hitting walls, crashing and burning.

Since then, we got a pit stop and refueling from the Administration and Congress. We’ve got a new driver, rebuilt the engine, and empowered the pit crew. Today, we're zooming along and about to see the checkered flag." (former FCC Chairman Kevin Martin did take the NASCAR approach to the transition, putting the DTV transition message on a NASCAR that did, actually, crash and burn)."

Commerce Secretary Gary Locke:

"In the past four months, we've cut the unpreparedness numbers by more than half. Now, more than 97 percent of Americans are prepared for this transition. Perhaps more importantly, we know that awareness is incredibly high, near 100 percent, which is remarkable for any national issue. And more than 3 million households have not redeemed their coupons. That means we have a group waiting until the last minute, which might not be surprising considering that many of the unprepared are young people. We also have a group that just doesn't think we’re serious about the June 12 deadline. That's changing. In the last week, we've seen notable progress - applications for coupons have nearly doubled.

Certainly, we are continuing our aggressive outreach efforts to the most unprepared communities, as is the FCC, mayors, Congressional leaders and community partners who are all working with us to make sure people get ready. And we will continue to reach out after June 12. There will be some people who just won't act, and there are others who want to but can't. I know that during these difficult economic times, digital television might not be at the top of some families to-do lists. We're trying to do everything we can to make sure Americans have the programming and emergency information they rely on."

http://www.broadcastingcable.com/article/278540-DTV_Shift_Messy_but_Manageable.php