WHY would they do that? With all the issues with VHF that seems pretty stupid.
They're so financially desperate that they need the lower power costs to stay alive? Nothing else makes sense.

I imagine so.

I would hope that at some point in the future they can at least make KET1 and KET2 available in widescreen SD. That'd be a nice compromise.

- Trip

KET is planning to change the channel lineup soon.

As to the reasons why...


1. When we started with the HD service PBS did not supply much HD programming and charged the stations for the use of the national PBS HD feed. Rather than have both the added expense and no control over the programming KET chose to purchase an HD server so we could program our own schedule and ensure that the prime time hours were indeed HD.

2. KET-ED was a direct replacement for the satellite feeds to the schools. The equipment was aging and DTV was a more cost effective method of program delivery. Over the years since then high speed internet has become available and most schools districts are connected with at least 10 Mbps pipes and the focus has shifted to the KET Encyclomedia service via internet.

3. Wide screen-- Most cable and satellite providers have stated that their decoders will not handle it properly.

I'm not a liberty to go into any details on the upcoming changes..

William

p.s. KET1 and KET2 5.5 Mbps statmux
KETKY (SD mode) and KET-Ed 5.0 Mbps statmux
KETHD 12.2 Mbps Variable bit rate.

KETHD 12.2 Mbps Variable bit rate.

That sucks for 720p, even worse for 1080i.

KET is planning to change the channel lineup soon.

As to the reasons why...


1. When we started with the HD service PBS did not supply much HD programming and charged the stations for the use of the national PBS HD feed. Rather than have both the added expense and no control over the programming KET chose to purchase an HD server so we could program our own schedule and ensure that the prime time hours were indeed HD.

kind of lame excuse. WLJT PBS in Lexington TN has 24 hour HD on 11.3. I'm pretty sure they are not anymore less strapped for cash than you.

3. Wide screen-- Most cable and satellite providers have stated that their decoders will not handle it properly.
Both satellite providers handle wide screen HD and SD OTA quite well.

I would be very surprised if a state that likes to trumpet its rural broadband availability did not have decent access at all schools. Very surprised.


Not sure I would make assumptions based on such "trumpeting" --- for example --- The cableco in my region has online maps which indicate my rural location is served by their cable system ... It is not ....

In this case, there is no reason to make such assumptions -- In addition to William's info ---- There is some info regarding Internet access in KY schools as well as info on usage of KET's Encylomedia here :

http://www.education.ky.gov/KDE/HomePageRepository/News%20Room/Kentucky%20Education%20Facts.htm


Percentage of schools connected to the Kentucky Education Network (KEN), a modern high-speed connection to the Internet

100%



Percentage of schools utilizing Encyclomedia, an Internet-based comprehensive multi-media learning service

92%

As for "24/7" HD ... I haven't seen anything close to that from a PBS member station (or any other station for that matter) since the days of the PBS HD demo loop ....

Upconverted SD programming is NOT HD programming ....


Both satellite providers handle wide screen HD and SD OTA quite well.


I believe the issue would be they (and OTA viewers equipment as well) would have to properly handle both 704x480i 16x9 and 704x480i 4x3 formats from the same programming service(subchannel) .....

I personally don't like the Letterboxing and loss of resolution involved, and I'd like nothing more if *every* (not just KET) SD service would not use letterboxing for the 16x9 programming -- 704x480i 16x9 vs. 4x3 is just a change in PAR(pixel aspect ratio) and a AR flag change Which, ironcially any DVD player, and many newer displays(whether they be 4x3 or 16x9) *should* be able to handle, and I'm sure it wouldn't be a problem for KET ... It is a problem however for cable+sat, and for many viewers with 4x3 sets (especially older ones) .....

In any case ... Given I watch most 16x9 PBS programming on KET-HD (I personally find the quality superior vs. the HD quality from other PBS member stations in my area), anyway, most of the 16x9/HD programming I'm interested in from PBS is available there as is, and I'd venture a wild guess that there will be even more HD (PBS or KET) available from KET in the future, possibly the near future ....

As for "24/7" HD ... I haven't seen anything close to that from a PBS member station (or any other station for that matter) since the days of the PBS HD demo loop ....

Oh so you say I'm lying? I'm 100% sure I know WTF I'm talking about since I can SEE the station. YOU however can't.

Do they air Washington Week? Bill Moyers' Journal? Most PBS stations do.

If so, it's not 24/7 HD, assuming you're not counting SD upconverts as HD, which is what Nitewatchman is saying. Because Washington Week and Bill Moyers' Journal are only available in SD, and must be upconverted to air on an HD channel. This is what most PBS stations do.

I see Charlie Rose on the schedule for tonight. That program is also SD only.

- Trip

Do they air Washington Week? Bill Moyers' Journal? Most PBS stations do.

If so, it's not 24/7 HD, assuming you're not counting SD upconverts as HD, which is what Nitewatchman is saying. Because Washington Week and Bill Moyers' Journal are only available in SD, and must be upconverted to air on an HD channel. This is what most PBS stations do.

I see Charlie Rose on the schedule for tonight. That program is also SD only.

- Trip

The point is the station doesn't run part of the day in 480i and part in 720p. It's 720p 24-7. By the way I just checked Charlie Rose on cable on Ch 11( in which is it showing in 480i ) and and Ch 711 which is the same channel in HD( and is in 720p ) and it may be "upconverted" but there is a HUGE difference in quality. So I would prefer upconverted SD programming over regular SD programming if I had a choice.

By the way for tomorrow they have 11 1/2 hours of HD programming.

So I would prefer upconverted SD programming over regular SD programming if I had a choice.

Good news! An HD television can't show SD without upconverting it. There's a good chance the stations do a better job of upconverting than your TV does, but it all gets upconverted.

And don't believe everything you read in TV listings.

Something new and different... I received an email this evening advising that as of 1 pm September 1, KAXT-CA, TSID 4055, Santa Clara/San Jose, CA, assumed Virtual Channel 1 instead of Channel 22. To avoid the problem where there is an overlapping of KAXT's and KRCB's signals, both using virtual channel 22, the idea of using "channel 1" was submitted to the local FCC office last week. The reply from the FCC yesterday was "this solves the problem". This might be the first channel 1 to be seen on TV since they deleted that channel from the TV spectrum!

In addition to changing the virtual channel to 1, they moved the audio services to be in sequence with the video channels, so the sub-channels are now 1-1 through 1-12 for video (yes, they have 12 video channels!) and 1-13 through 1-15 for audio.

Larry
SF

That sucks for 720p, even worse for 1080i.

Based on extensive testing with PBS material and after transcoding to 720p, our encoders peaked bit rates for video at about 13.2 even when the top limit was 15. At 12.2 I've only seen issues with very fast moving images..like a waterfall. Even at 18 Mbps strobe lights cause issues.

In order to add the 4th service and be able to have any HD, we have to switch formats if we want any decent picture quality in the main services which are SD at this time.

William

That's interesting, considering the PSIP standard specifically forbids any stations from using channel 1 and I remember hearing that stations have been fined by the FCC for trying to map to channel 1.

- Trip

There probably are also a lot of tuners that won't let the viewer change the channel to virtual 1.x.

That's interesting, considering the PSIP standard specifically forbids any stations from using channel 1 and I remember hearing that stations have been fined by the FCC for trying to map to channel 1.

- Trip

This reminds me of a VERY strange thing that happened shortly after I got my dual mode TV (Sylvania 6427GFF) four years ago.

I had set the TV to RF channel 3 in an attempt to find the source of the strong hypersnow on the channel (in reality, the RF noise from consumer products at home and elsewhere was so strong I mistook it for DTV hypersnow).

During one attempt, the set actually mapped to virtual channel 1-01!

Perhaps channel 1 is off-limits because the bit stream that represents channel 1 is more easily emulated by random noise?

Also, though it has nothing to do with ATSC, PSIP, nor virtual channels, KNBN-LP in Rapid City, SD, once went by "NBC 1", which I presume was carried by cable on channel 5A HRC (72.000 vis), which most TVs and VCRs show as channel 1.

I just checked Charlie Rose on cable on Ch 11( in which is it showing in 480i ) and and Ch 711 which is the same channel in HD( and is in 720p ) and it may be "upconverted" but there is a HUGE difference in quality. So I would prefer upconverted SD programming over regular SD programming if I had a choice.
Is this cable channel 11 digital or analog?

WIIH-CA 8 and KLAU-LD 66 both seeking licenses, I'm guessing they're on the air now.

WSBS-CA 3 in Miami wants an STA to operate through the WPBT analog antenna at 0.3 kW. I wonder how well that signal will do. :rolleyes:

KAID wants another fill-in translator, but that doesn't surprise me.

No new VHF nightmares this evening, or at least, nothing I'm counting as one.

KTVM-6 has asked for a fill-in translator on channel 33, but from a different tower site that's designed to hit the city of Deer Lodge. I'm not sure I want to blame VHF for this one.

- Trip

I am really getting sick of all these LPTV apps. Particularly the ones where the applicant applies for EVERY open frequency in a given city. Very rude.

KACV filed their application for channel 8, which the FCC granted them a few weeks back.

KNBC has now joined KCBS in seeking an STA in case Mount Wilson burns, though it appears that it's probably moot at this point.

Otherwise, nothing of interest with the FCC.

- Trip

I am really getting sick of all these LPTV apps. Particularly the ones where the applicant applies for EVERY open frequency in a given city. Very rude.
I blame the FCC. It is easier to apply for everything (or several things) than pick one and hope that any other potential licensees don't happen to pick the same channel. Once the conflicts are found applicants can cooperate (if they want) and all get a channel. (Or one bad applicant can block everything - but I try to remain positive.)

There is also the possibility that someone might WANT several LDs in the same town too. Kinda like WBND/WCWW/WMYS in South Bend.

BTW: 921 applications and only 2 for channel 37. :)
Complete List (http://www.fcc.gov/fcc-bin/tvq?call=new&arn=200908&chan=&cha2=69&type=0&list=1)

BTW: 921 applications and only 2 for channel 37. :)
Complete List (http://www.fcc.gov/fcc-bin/tvq?call=new&arn=200908&chan=&cha2=69&type=0&list=1)

Will ATSC tuners even attempt to tune to channel 37?

I know they won't attempt to tune to channel 1!

I'm pretty sure they do scan channel 37 since it's contiguous. Probably easier to just spend a second scanning it rather than implementing code to skip over it.

- Trip

I am really getting sick of all these LPTV apps. Particularly the ones where the applicant applies for EVERY open frequency in a given city. Very rude.

How nice of them. /sarcasm
I assume the FCC will NOT give them CPs for EVERY frequency in a given area?

They've done it before.

- Trip

Well one of them is in the Northern Mariana Islands in the South Pacific. I doubt anyone will notice interference from their 2kw operation there.

I blame the FCC.Me too, if the applicants pull that crap the FCC should deny all their applications and the problem will be solved. However they probably should be given the option of "or best available channel".

Very few apps for Michigan, and, as far as I can tell, not one for Upper Michigan.

The channel 38 and 43 applications for Traverse City are interesting. Not only are the apps (both for 15kW translators of WWTV) identical to each other in every respect save the channel, they are both identical (except channel) to WWTV's channel 40 fill-in translator app filed a few days before.

I sure hope the three apps are filed a a "shotgun" approach, in case two others are rejected.

I would support any -one- of these three proposals, as TC is in a (geographical) depression and a translator will improve coverage (and with it OTA in general), but certainly not all three together.

Another app with the all the same parameters was filed for channel 42, by the owners of WFQX (technically different owners than WWTV, but they function as one). Since WFQX is at the same site as WWTV, I would support the ch 42 app as well. WFQX (as WGKI) had a channel 40 analog translator in TC in the past.

re: channels 1, 37 on ATSC tuners.
I noticed that on my Sylvania 6427GFF (2005, integrated SDTV set), if I enter channel 1, channel 37, or any channel between 70 and 99 with my remote, it does display the channel for several seconds, before defaulting to "NO SIGNAL", just like any other vacant channel.
I presume when I punch 37, its looking at 608.310, but I do wonder where the h*** its looking for a signal when I punch 1 or 70+.

I have a feeling that the WWTV/WFQX ones are backups, as you imply. I have no question in my mind about that.

WLOX was approved today.

- Trip

Trip,

Congrats on the DX tool. I like it very much! The social coverage map could be an excellent resource once more people add some data.

BTW: 921 applications and only 2 for channel 37. :)
Complete List (http://www.fcc.gov/fcc-bin/tvq?call=new&arn=200908&chan=&cha2=69&type=0&list=1)

This one is pretty funny. They got the lat/lon wrong:

http://www.fcc.gov/fcc-bin/tvq?list=0&facid=181953

Look at their Service Contour and location maps. :D

The station can probably get a good deal on old "Sea Hunt" episodes!

This one is pretty funny. They got the lat/lon wrong:

http://www.fcc.gov/fcc-bin/tvq?list=0&facid=181953

Look at their Service Contour and location maps. :D

ROFL... We have an awesome signal, you just need to float your antenna towards our tower in the bay/ocean!

WLS boosts to 9.5 kw in Chicago, and is expected to have 44 on the air in mid-October.

Time sensitive:

http://www.chicagotribune.com/business/chi-biz-wls-sept4,0,1577535.story

The article gist:

"WLS-Ch. 7 temporarily boosted its power on Friday and is working on a permanent fix for those viewers who are still having trouble getting the station signal after June's transition from analog to digital broadcasts.

The Federal Communications Commission granted permission for WLS to effectively double its power for a limited time. Emily Barr, president and general manager at WLS, said the station has applied with the FCC to relocate to Ch. 44, a move that should give it a stronger signal.

The FCC should approve the move within the next several weeks, after which WLS will need another few weeks to get its equipment in place. Barr said she expects WLS to be broadcasting on Ch. 44 by the middle of October. The station will continue broadcasting on Ch. 7, but drop back to its original power levels."

I didn't realize that WLS would continue to broadcast on channel 7 after 44 was put in use.

Is this so?

I didn't realize that WLS would continue to broadcast on channel 7 after 44 was put in use.

Is this so?

It is so, SK. But at their licensed 4.75 kw power.

What's the rationale for maintaining 7?

I thought that 44 was to be a full blown replacement for 7, now it sounds as if it's a fill-in.

They've asked to keep 7 at 4.75 kW for some unknown reason. I see nothing to indicate that the FCC has acted on this request.

- Trip

In sounds as if it could be ABC's misguided fixation with channel 7!

They've asked to keep 7 at 4.75 kW for some unknown reason. I see nothing to indicate that the FCC has acted on this request.

- Trip

They don't have to. The current boost to 9.5 kw is an STA for 6 months, and the other stations agreed to do it until they signon their 44 transmitter. The 4.75 kw is what they should be at...and were at until about 2 PM CT this afternoon, and will be after they sign on 44.

Right, the current STA is for 6 months. What happens after that? I've seen no FCC action that makes channel 7 a permanent fixture, though they have applied for it.

- Trip

This one is pretty funny. They got the lat/lon wrong:

http://www.fcc.gov/fcc-bin/tvq?list=0&facid=181953

Look at their Service Contour and location maps. :D
Yep ... they filed 37° 29' 26.80" N, 122° 52' 27.14" W and meant 120° 52' 26.9" W based on the ASRN on the application.

They don't have to. The current boost to 9.5 kw is an STA for 6 months, and the other stations agreed to do it until they signon their 44 transmitter. The 4.75 kw is what they should be at...and were at until about 2 PM CT this afternoon, and will be after they sign on 44.
Normally a station would give up one license for another and WLS would lose all permission to broadcast on channel 7 as soon as they moved to channel 44. A STA should be needed to continue on the channel they are leaving.

Or will they be using their STA for 9.5kw to broadcast 4.75kw until the six months expire?

The station can probably get a good deal on old "Sea Hunt" episodes!

Maybe my estimate of potential viewers is too low.

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=17087957#post17087957

"My estimate of the potential viewers on the Farallon Islands is ~ 2"

SHF

Trip,

Congrats on the DX tool. I like it very much! The social coverage map could be an excellent resource once more people add some data.

Glad you enjoy it. :) I'm hopeful that it becomes popular and I can end up with semi-detailed coverage maps.

http://www.rabbitears.info/dx_members.php?

That's the page I've been attacking this evening.

- Trip

Glad you enjoy it. :) I'm hopeful that it becomes popular and I can end up with semi-detailed coverage maps.

http://www.rabbitears.info/dx_members.php?

That's the page I've been attacking this evening.

- Trip

I'm not sure why people would sign up for that then not bother to fill in the data.

I don't know, but as you can see, lots have done just that.

- Trip

I don't know, but as you can see, lots have done just that.

- Trip

Maybe they can not get the co-ordinates filled in correctly. Not everybody is sharp enough to handle stuff like that. Maybe more detailed instructions are needed ?????????

No, most of these people have their locations set up, which is to say, the coordinates didn't throw them.

They never got to the next step, adding station reception reports. I have detailed instructions with bold red arrows pointing at it for that, so I would hope that's not confusing.

- Trip

BCF68:

Your blue icon has now been added. I changed your WKRN to blue just to test the code. You may now modify any others that you wish to list as "blue."

- Trip

BCF68:

Your blue icon has now been added. I changed your WKRN to blue just to test the code. You may now modify any others that you wish to list as "blue."

- Trip

Thanks. I might change some of the borderline ones to blue since they do come in pretty good at night.

I notice on WSMV it still says 42.4 kW. Is this a lack of update on your part or have they not boosted up to 60 kW yet? I'm also kind of shocked how well I get in WNPT at only 17.65 kW. Almost as good as WSMV.

Last I heard from Doug, WSMV is still at 42.4 kW.

- Trip

Last I heard from Doug, WSMV is still at 42.4 kW.

- Trip

Oh then that makes me exicted for when thy boost it up to 60 kW. Which I already know you're going to tell me that it won't make much difference. A man can have his dreams right?

Getting back to Chicago and WLS.

Via RabbitEars, I was able to find WLS's 8/18 filing -

"On August 12, 2009, the Commission released a Notice of Proposed Rule Making to substitute channel 44 for channel 7 for its post-transition DTV channel.

Through this application, WLS seeks authority to construct a Digital Fill-In Translator on channel 7, its former NTSC channel."

So, 44 is the replacement and if approved, 7 becomes a Translator.

They filed for 4.75 kW, which is 12 dB higher than the VHF translator power limit.

- Trip

It's nice that WLS is moving to UHF, but why keep running a translator on the old VHF channel though?

This one is pretty funny. They got the lat/lon wrong:

http://www.fcc.gov/fcc-bin/tvq?list=0&facid=181953

Look at their Service Contour and location maps. :D

If I point my antenna west do you think I might get it?

LOL!

Larry
SF

It's nice that WLS is moving to UHF, but why keep running a translator on the old VHF channel though?

What are you going to do with the equipment? Who wants it? The value of VHF digital transmitters fell faster than the stock market after June 12th.

It's nice that WLS is moving to UHF, but why keep running a translator on the old VHF channel though?

To keep viewers who won't know to rescan.

... or to get viewers who tune to 7 without having scanned, or just to make sure nobody else gets to be Channel 7 in any meaning of the phrase.

... or just to make sure nobody else gets to be Channel 7 in any meaning of the phrase.

That is already guaranteed by regulation no matter what channel WLS or any former analog station's channel number for that matter no matter what the final DTV channel is.

WLBZ 2 Move To Channel 2 Delayed (not by much)

http://www.wlbz2.com/news/local/story.aspx?storyid=108571&catid=3

The station had hoped the channel 2 transmitter would go into operation over the past weekend. Manufacturer repair date estimates now put implementation for some next week, after the Labor Day holiday. According to WLBZ 2 Director of Technology Dave Mundee, the manufacturer currently has a backlog of transmitter work, "...Part of which is caused by transmitter moves and channel changes all around the country that have occurred since the June 12 conversion date."

The FCC assigned WLBZ channel 25, a UHF frequency, before the digital signal went on the air back in 2002. UHF-or ultra high frequency-must have a line-of-sight path for reception. Knowing that Maine's hilly and forested terrain would make UHF reception difficult, WLBZ 2 made plans to return to a VHF-or very high-frequency channel. Once transmitting on channel 2, the station's signal will more closely hug the earth and should fill in some of the gaps the UHF signal could not.

WLBZ 2 President and General Manager Judy Horan says postponing the change from UHF to VHF to next week will ultimately be smoother for over-the-air viewers and even for cable and satellite subscribers, "Making the change during the regular business week helps the cable and satellite providers who retransmit our off-air signal."

Bold emphasis added. On paper, yes, in reality... well, it hasn't been an unmitigated success to put it mildly.

What I don't understand is that Gannett also owns the following stations:

WKYC
WMAZ
KNAZ

Which got off of Low-VHF DTV or didn't want to move there (KNAZ).

I only see one upper VHF station of theirs currently listed on the nightmares page (KXTV), however.

The same "the-lowest-channel-will-get-you-the-widest-coverage" argument that probably got the KBEJ/KCWX-2 allocation shoehorned in here in 1986 and the mini stampede of applicants for it http://home.swbell.net/pjdyer/fred-2.htm
WLBZ is rather out of range for one-hop Es co-channel http://www.qsl.net/wa5iyx/images/usadtv2.gif but there are still plenty of Canadian NTSC Ch 2 to keep it company for a while yet.

They filed for 4.75 kW, which is 12 dB higher than the VHF translator power limit.

- Trip
If WTVF Nashville can file for a fill-in translator that's about 8 dB above the UHF limit then WLS probably doesn't see a problem with their request.

WTVF hasn't received permanent approval either. They're operating it under STA. The FCC originally rejected it at 100 kW.

- Trip

WLBZ 2 Move To Channel 2 Delayed (not by much)

http://www.wlbz2.com/news/local/story.aspx?storyid=108571&catid=3



Bold emphasis added. On paper, yes, in reality... well, it hasn't been an unmitigated success to put it mildly.

Well the FCC putting ridiculously low caps on power kind of explains some of it.

WLBZ 2 Move To Channel 2 Delayed (not by much)

http://www.wlbz2.com/news/local/story.aspx?storyid=108571&catid=3

Bold emphasis added. On paper, yes, in reality... well, it hasn't been an unmitigated success to put it mildly.

Part of the argument in their case, IIRC, is that a lot of rural Maine viewers have never had to (or bothered to, if any channels were even on-air in their area) mess much with UHF. and there probably are a lot of old VHF-only logs and such out in the hinterlands, so VHF is a better choice in their minds. (And for all we know, some of those unsuccessfully trying to pick up the UHF signal may well have been doing so with those VHF antennas.) That said, their knowledge of propagation seems to be part myth, and part "used to be true with analog...no dice with DTV."

This one is pretty funny. They got the lat/lon wrong:

http://www.fcc.gov/fcc-bin/tvq?list=0&facid=181953

Look at their Service Contour and location maps. :D

Hey, whatever floats their boat!

This one is pretty funny. They got the lat/lon wrong:

http://www.fcc.gov/fcc-bin/tvq?list=0&facid=181953

Look at their Service Contour and location maps. :D

ROFL... We have an awesome signal, you just need to float your antenna towards our tower in the bay/ocean!

Hey, whatever floats their boat!

The station can probably get a good deal on old "Sea Hunt" episodes!

They could probably cobble together a whole schedule of appropriate classic shows: Sea Hunt, Flipper, Jacques Cousteau specials, maybe the old "Victory at Sea" series.....

Their slogan could be "if it floats, swims, or paddles -- we have it!"

Their slogan could be "if it floats, swims, or paddles -- we have it!"The idea is all wet and would never hold water.

They could probably cobble together a whole schedule of appropriate classic shows: Sea Hunt, Flipper, Jacques Cousteau specials, maybe the old "Victory at Sea" series.....

Their slogan could be "if it floats, swims, or paddles -- we have it!"

With programming like that 24/7, I would expect to see it sink pretty quickly...

- Trip

Any more jokes like the last few, and this board will be washed up.....

Now that the puns seem to be drying up (:D) I want to show off what I've finally managed to do. Replicas of Doug Lungs maps, but for stations relevant to me. Forewarning, the images included are 2.5MB each, so don't try to load them on a really slow connection.

http://coverage.rabbitears.info/wfxr-dt.html
http://coverage.rabbitears.info/wbra-dt.html

I'm going to run WGHP and WDBJ once I get elevation pattern information from them.

- Trip

Anyone catch this?

http://www.fcc.gov/eb/FieldNotices/2003/DOC-292933A1.html

Woman cited by the FCC because allegedly her indoor top-of-set Phillips amplified TV antenna was interfering with cellphone service!?

Even with the leakiest connection, how could one of those units possibly put out enough radiation to cause RFI to cellphones? Sounds pretty bogus to me.

FWIW, I myself have an indoor Phillips amplified TV antenna (not the same model, tho) and I've sat right next to the thing chatting on the cell and perceived no interference.

Anyone catch this?

http://www.fcc.gov/eb/FieldNotices/2003/DOC-292933A1.html

Woman cited by the FCC because allegedly her indoor top-of-set Phillips amplified TV antenna was interfering with cellphone service!?

Even with the leakiest connection, how could one of those units possibly put out enough radiation to cause RFI to cellphones? Sounds pretty bogus to me.

FWIW, I myself have an indoor Phillips amplified TV antenna (not the same model, tho) and I've sat right next to the thing chatting on the cell and perceived no interference.

That whole thing is ********. If that thing is causing interference then the FCC needs to fine itself since it must APPROVE items like that before they allowed to be sold.

Now that the puns seem to be drying up (:D) I want to show off what I've finally managed to do. Replicas of Doug Lungs maps, but for stations relevant to me. Forewarning, the images included are 2.5MB each, so don't try to load them on a really slow connection.

http://coverage.rabbitears.info/wfxr-dt.html
http://coverage.rabbitears.info/wbra-dt.html

I'm going to run WGHP and WDBJ once I get elevation pattern information from them.

- Trip

not sure what I'm supposed to be seeing.

That whole thing is ********. If that thing is causing interference then the FCC needs to fine itself since it must APPROVE items like that before they allowed to be sold.

The electronics probably went amok inside the device, so the complaint is valid. BUT, why cite her? Unplug the thing, tell her to exchange it. But cite her? Nice going, FCC. That'll help your cause for DTV...

This one is pretty funny. They got the lat/lon wrong:

http://www.fcc.gov/fcc-bin/tvq?list=0&facid=181953

Look at their Service Contour and location maps. :D

Well Moss Beach seems to be in the contour, but it is so close to the edge, one might need a 30 foot tower. :) There does not seem to be any other land. I wonder how tall the tower will have to be just to reach the ocean floor. Also, what out in the ocean is that directional pattern meant to protect?

The electronics probably went amok inside the device, so the complaint is valid. BUT, why cite her? Unplug the thing, tell her to exchange it. But cite her? Nice going, FCC. That'll help your cause for DTV...

well of course it's ******** to cite her. Like she was doing it on purpose or had received warning and refused to replace the equipment. I still find it hard to believe a indoor Tv antenna could knock out a cell tower. If so it woudn't take much for some terrorists to knock out communications in the US.

It'd be interesting to know the proximity of the cellsite being impaired. They have acute "hearing" what with trying to pickup those 800-900 MHz milliwatt-items with their stubby little antennas over a few square miles. The aspect of a common carrier having its system compromised for 911 calls is likely what got the quick FCC action. A public info announcement would have been more appropriate unless there is more going on there than is being admitted.

It'd be interesting to know the proximity of the cellsite being impaired. They have acute "hearing" what with trying to pickup those 800-900 MHz milliwatt-items with their stubby little antennas over a few square miles. The aspect of a common carrier having its system compromised for 911 calls is likely what got the quick FCC action. A public info announcement would have been more appropriate unless there is more going on there than is being admitted.

Unless the cell tower is practically in her backyard (in which case I think the RFI problem is far more likely to be reversed; e.g., the tower's emissions messing up her TV reception) and that little indoor antenna is putting out massive amounts of spurious emissions (far more than should be possible given its power), this just seems SO far-fetched. As Pat says, maybe something more here than meets the eye? Or maybe lazy/incompetent FCC drones that found something located in the general vicinity of the problem spiking in the vicinity of the problem freqs, and they just assumed that to be the culprit and figured "case closed" and went home for the weekend.

But others' posts sum it up well -- even IF the thing is so out of whack that this is happening, you don't cite the poor woman. You have her shut it down and return it to the store as defective, and suggest she seek a different make/model for the replacement. And IF this problem recurs elsewhere with the same model, then you go after Phillips and have the things recalled. But it's not like she paid $49 for something to sit on her set and bring in better DTV with the intention of screwing up the 911 system.

not sure what I'm supposed to be seeing.

You click on them and, in theory, you'll eventually see some colorful coverage maps that you can move around in (Google Maps based). Once the 2.5MB image file loads, that is...

- Trip

It's usually cases of the outdoor preamps on antenna systems turning themselves into mini-transmitters that are most-easily noticed. If the parasitic oscillation is near the design frequency of the antenna then there can be a fair ERP emitted. Often a self-oscillating preamp will give the user evidence that it's malfunctioning by reduced gain or interference on their own set. But, with DTV you no longer have the "advantage" of seeing those effects unless it prevents a decode.

You click on them and, in theory, you'll eventually see some colorful coverage maps that you can move around in (Google Maps based). Once the 2.5MB image file loads, that is...

- Trip

Ok I see it now. I didn't see it before. Very nice. Where can one obtain this program to use for other stations?

http://www.qsl.net/kd2bd/splat.html

Nothing too interesting with the FCC this morning, other than WCHU-LD in Chicago, about to get displaced off of 44 by WLS, asking to move to channel 7 at 4.75 kW like WLS had. I can't see the FCC going for it.

- Trip

http://www.qsl.net/kd2bd/splat.html

- Trip

Actually I've seen that before. I'm not sure how to get it to work. WTF is bz2? I download bitzipper but to extract it, it turns into a .tar file. I extract that and I see a folder but now what? I click the thing that says install and windows asks me which program I want to use. How in the hell so I know? I'm not sure why people have to make things so damned difficult. I'm not sure why they couldn't have made a simple zip file then use a .exe to install it.

A bz2 file is a Bzip compressed file. A tar file is a Tape ARchive. It is a typical unix/linux compressed file since they are typically shipped on those systems. It contains the source code to build the program. I expect it may be difficult to build on windows as it does not have the necessary build system (make, gcc, etc...) unless you use cygwin.

On linux it should be as simple to install as:

bzip2 -cd splat-1.3.0.tar.bz2 | tar -x
cd splat-1.3.0
./configure
make
make install (most likely as root)

A bz2 file is a Bzip compressed file. A tar file is a Tape ARchive. It is a typical unix/linux compressed file since they are typically shipped on those systems. It contains the source code to build the program. I expect it may be difficult to build on windows as it does not have the necessary build system (make, gcc, etc...) unless you use cygwin.

On linux it should be as simple to install as:

bzip2 -cd splat-1.3.0.tar.bz2 | tar -x
cd splat-1.3.0
./configure
make
make install (most likely as root)

Well I guess nevermind then.

It's usually cases of the outdoor preamps on antenna systems turning themselves into mini-transmitters that are most-easily noticed. If the parasitic oscillation is near the design frequency of the antenna then there can be a fair ERP emitted. Often a self-oscillating preamp will give the user evidence that it's malfunctioning by reduced gain or interference on their own set. But, with DTV you no longer have the "advantage" of seeing those effects unless it prevents a decode.

About 15 years ago had to DF a preamp that was interfering with a whole neighbor on VHF high. It covered about a 3 block area! The mast mount pre-amp was 30 ft in the air and with the antenna it made a great transmitter! The poor guy who owned it didn't know what his neighbors were talking about since HE wasn't being interfered with! Now THAT was interesting.

Well I guess nevermind then.

There are EXE installable Windows versions of BZ2. On a stock XP install, these maps work. It takes a while to download the coverage data though so give it plenty of time to do that.

There are EXE installable Windows versions of BZ2. On a stock XP install, these maps work. It takes a while to download the coverage data though so give it plenty of time to do that.

I found the windows version of that program still couldn't get it to work. I give up.

On linux it should be as simple to install as:

Actually, he doesn't even include a Makefile for it. ./configure does the compiling as well. Then installing it is as simple as "sudo ./install all".

I have always had trouble making SPLAT work properly even on the Linux side, and I was told the Windows port was even more painful. Running one of these maps here that Doug Lung provided instructions for takes roughly an hour, perhaps a little more, on my machine, not counting the time I spend preparing it to run.

I can't say I would ever even try the Windows version. I've scripted a lot of the process because trying to manage it by hand takes forever, and I'm not sure how exactly to script things in Windows beyond very simple .bat files that do things like map network drives.

- Trip

The electronics probably went amok inside the device, so the complaint is valid. BUT, why cite her? Unplug the thing, tell her to exchange it. But cite her? Nice going, FCC. That'll help your cause for DTV...

Spike Ferestein should do a third skit about Granny converting to DTV... this time with her being hauled off to jail because of the new antenna she had to get. :D

On the issue of WLS in Chicago, maybe it is better off that they keep a repeater on 7. There are always idiots out there who will want to snatch it up (like that LD in Chicago or WJBK in Detroit who applied for channel 7 after the non-O&O ABC affiliate WXYZ made the right decision to keep their UHF channel. Like they say, "one man's trash is another man's treasure".

So WCHU-LD should be required to go off the air? What makes WLS so special that they should have two frequencies while everyone else in the market has one?

- Trip

Let's not forget that although WXYZ is no longer an ABC owned station, it was - from its going on the air in 1948 until 1986 when it was sold.

Another ABC owned station with the "love of 7"!

About 15 years ago had to DF a preamp that was interfering with a whole neighbor on VHF high. It covered about a 3 block area! The mast mount pre-amp was 30 ft in the air and with the antenna it made a great transmitter! The poor guy who owned it didn't know what his neighbors were talking about since HE wasn't being interfered with! Now THAT was interesting.

I've seen the same thing. it was a Radio Shack preamp.

Also, perhaps the MANT300 that the FCC found wasn't oscillating, but was overloaded and retransmitting distortion products. Here's a person who described the mechanism in a Letter to the Editor.

http://www.nxtbook.com/nxtbooks/newbay/tvt_20090819/#/4

Part 15 rules do not prohibit a device than can interfere, it simply says that an interfering device must be moved or turned off to eliminate the problem.

The FCC has issued an NPRM for WLGA's request to relocate to channel 30.

- Trip

WLBZ Update (dual running 2 and 25):

http://www.wlbz2.com/news/local/story.aspx?storyid=108801&catid=3

The station will operate both its VHF and UHF digital transmitters until later this week. "The UHF channel 25 transmitter will be shut down on or near Thursday," said President and General Manager Judy Horan. "So before September 10, viewers need to make sure their antenna can receive a VHF signal, should point the antenna toward our tower on Riders Bluff in Holden and utilize the rescan function of their converter box or digital TV."

"We hope that the change from the UHF channel 25 to the VHF channel 2 will allow more people in eastern and central Maine to receive our signal over the air," said Horan. "We can't promise that everyone will be able to watch us again, but it's a significant improvement." Over-the-air viewers who had strong analog signals are the most likely to benefit from the change.

Anyone catch this?

http://www.fcc.gov/eb/FieldNotices/2003/DOC-292933A1.html

...

Can anyone even begin to imagine how this woman, who most probably knows nothing about communications law, would react after receiving that kind of citation from her government?

--- CHAS

WTF is up with this MIK-LLC company? No way the FCC should allow a company to apply for that many channels.

Fort Walton Beach

Construction permit for a new station for FORT WALTON, FL
on channel 16, 21, 22, 25, 27, 29, 30

Panama City

Construction permit for a new station for PANAMA CITY, FL
on channel 15, 16, 18, 19, 24, 28, 29, 42

Aspen

Construction permit for a new station for ASPEN, CO
on channel 15, 17, 18, 22, 23, 24, 28, 30, 33, 42, 44, 47, 48

WTF is up with this MIK-LLC company? No way the FCC should allow a company to apply for that many channels.

Fort Walton Beach

Construction permit for a new station for FORT WALTON, FL
on channel 16, 21, 22, 25, 27, 29, 30

Panama City

Construction permit for a new station for PANAMA CITY, FL
on channel 15, 16, 18, 19, 24, 28, 29, 42

Aspen

Construction permit for a new station for ASPEN, CO
on channel 15, 17, 18, 22, 23, 24, 28, 30, 33, 42, 44, 47, 48

This sort of thing is going on all over the country -- applicants (sometimes multiple applicants) just putting in for more or less every possible channel in an area. I think they just figure the FCC will sort it all out, and they'll hopefully end up with one or two channels, whereas if they just rolled the dice on a single channel, they might well lose out to another applicant and have to start the whole process over again to seek another.

not sure what I'm supposed to be seeing.
The WFXR coverage plot is great. Clearly shows the issues of reception my family had on the NE face of Sugarloaf Mt (Roanoke County SW of VA 419). Analog OTA from Poor Mt was only a smear of ghosts from reflections. Only usable reception was from Lynchburg and the 2,4 & 67 translators located up by the Roanoke Star. Would like to go back to Sugarloaf and test digital with 5th or 6th gen chipset.

I'm tempted to start a betting pool on how long it takes WLBZ to request to fire up channel 25 again. However, I don't gamble.

Their license to cover channel 2 was only one of the FCC applications this evening.

KIRO wants another fill-in translator.

WPSU has filed their DTS officially now.

KTVC has gone silent.

Nothing terribly interesting.

- Trip

Lots of nothing interesting from the FCC site this evening.

WPXD filed for channel 50 which was previously approved.

KSCW/KWCH have filed for permits for their respective new channels, plus the STA for 33.2 kW for KSCW on 12.

WNYI has filed to relocate to a nearby tower with a new pattern.

- Trip

WPSU has filed their DTS officially now.


- Trip

Not a surprise, but disappointing that they appear to have abandoned (for now) plans for DTS sites in Altoona and Johnstown.

KTVT/KTXA have been approved for UHF permanently.

- Trip

It looks like 2 isn't going well for WLBZ now that 25 is off:

http://www.wlbz2.com/news/local/story.aspx?storyid=108974&catid=3

Some comments have been posted stating loss of the signal.

It looks like 2 isn't going well for WLBZ now that 25 is off:

http://www.wlbz2.com/news/local/story.aspx?storyid=108974&catid=3

Some comments have been posted stating loss of the signal.

WOW a station using low VHF having reception issues? No way! :rolleyes:

And that guy saying low VHF is better for reception is ********. Explain why WTVF according to tvfool and the FCC is supposedly my best station out of Nashville yet is much harder to get in that either WSMV or WKRN or hell when the PBS station which in VHF 8 and running on less than 18 kW?

It looks like 2 isn't going well for WLBZ now that 25 is off:

http://www.wlbz2.com/news/local/story.aspx?storyid=108974&catid=3

From the article:

WLBZ 2 has shut down the UHF transmitter it has used since 2002 to transmit its digital signal. The station's signal is now on VHF channel 2, a change that requires all over-the-air viewers to perform a rescan on their digital television sets or converter boxes to receive it.

Uh, for most viewers it will take more than a rescan to receive this signal...

This was the same communication problem as we saw with the DTV transition in general. Stations and the government didn't make it clear enough that it's not enough to have a converter box -- you also may have to add antennas...

Channel 2 has NEVER worked on rabbit ears. Was under 20 miles from KTCA 2 in the Twin Cities back in the day. Nothing was more frustrating than trying to pick them up w/ rabbit ears. Outdoor antenna in the garage attic solved that.

Fill-in translators for the outer areas would be a better fix, but let's face it, there's more money for stations getting carriage fees from cable and satellite. OTA is just a legal requirement to be provided as cheaply as possible.

Channel 2 has NEVER worked on rabbit ears.

Well let's see anyone know of any rabbit ears that are over 72 inches( 36 inches on each element )? I don't. Each one would have to be 51 inches each or 102 inches to for Ch 2.

Fill-in translators for the outer areas would be a better fix, but let's face it, there's more money for stations getting carriage fees from cable and satellite. OTA is just a legal requirement to be provided as cheaply as possible.

It depends on the market. Because of both geography and economics, a station in a market like Bangor has a high percentage of rural OTA viewers, and ignoring them or marginalizing them would not be wise, especially if your competitors are reaching them effectively. Even if cable/satellite penetration is 80-85% in such a market, I don't think a station like WBRZ can afford to shrug off 15-20% of its viewing audience. It's far more than "just a legal requirement" to many stations.

It depends on the market. Because of both geography and economics, a station in a market like Bangor has a high percentage of rural OTA viewers, and ignoring them or marginalizing them would not be wise, especially if your competitors are reaching them effectively. Even if cable/satellite penetration is 80-85% in such a market, I don't think a station like WBRZ can afford to shrug off 15-20% of its viewing audience. It's far more than "just a legal requirement" to many stations.

Isn't like 15% of all households are OTA? Now maybe I'm just not smart enough on this topic but since Disney owns ABC wouldn't it behoove them to try to gain that 15% by putting says ABC Family or one of their Disney channels on a subchannel on ABC stations? Sure they're not getting a fee like they would from cable or satellite, but they aren't getting those fees anyways from OTA households. They would be gaining eyeballs which means they can charge higher advertising fees

Well let's see anyone know of any rabbit ears that are over 72 inches( 36 inches on each element )? I don't. Each one would have to be 51 inches each or 102 inches to for Ch 2.

I haven't seen rabbit ears that are long enough for 2/3. Most seem to be designed for 5/6 or FM. The ones on the HDTVi are 42" on each side. I've heard of the metal (aluminum foil) ball trick at the end, but haven't tried it and have no need to now.

More comments have been added. I like the one that says we can send signals to (satellites) in space, but not 7.7 miles away. More blood is boiling. There's always watching TV on the Internet... :rolleyes:

WLBZ should have known better than to hype up channel 2 at least. "We were assigned 2 by the FCC" would have been less damaging I would think, even if that doesn't really tell the story.

Isn't like 15% of all households are OTA? Now maybe I'm just not smart enough on this topic but since Disney owns ABC wouldn't it behoove them to try to gain that 15% by putting says ABC Family or one of their Disney channels on a subchannel on ABC stations? Sure they're not getting a fee like they would from cable or satellite, but they aren't getting those fees anyways from OTA households. They would be gaining eyeballs which means they can charge higher advertising fees

And how do you think cable and satellite providers would react to such actions?

There would not only be outrage, but real threats to cease carriage..

Viewers pay for cable and satellite not just to improve reception, but most outside of urban areas, buy those services to receive "cable" programming.

If such programming were readily available OTA, there would be less of an inducement for viewers to pay those heavy monthly bills.

since Disney owns ABC wouldn't it behoove them to try to gain that 15% by putting says ABC Family or one of their Disney channels on a subchannel on ABC stations? Sure they're not getting a fee like they would from cable or satellite, but they aren't getting those fees anyways from OTA households. They would be gaining eyeballs which means they can charge higher advertising fees

But then Disney probably wouldn't be able to negotiate as large a carriage fee as they currently get from cable and satellite companies, which would argue that some viewers might leave them for OTA because of it.

(added: SnellKrell beat me to it!)

Well let's see anyone know of any rabbit ears that are over 72 inches( 36 inches on each element )? I don't. Each one would have to be 51 inches each or 102 inches to for Ch 2.I don't know if 300 ohm twinlead is even still made, but a folded dipole as we used for FM would be inexpensive and offer moderate gain. Then a balun to 75 ohms ...

I don't know if 300 ohm twinlead is even still made, but a folded dipole as we used for FM would be inexpensive and offer moderate gain. Then a balun to 75 ohms ...

Or a quad loop for that matter, cut to whatever channel is desired. I know DXers who were stuck in apartments used to make those for picking up lo-band e-skip. Doesn't have to be fancy -- even just lamp cord can be used, tacked up on a wall facing the general direction of the transmitter. I don't know the actual specs, but I seem to recall it provides a bit more gain over a folded dipole.

And how do you think cable and satellite providers would react to such actions?

There would not only be outrage, but real threats to cease carriage..

Viewers pay for cable and satellite not just to improve reception, but most outside of urban areas, buy those services to receive "cable" programming.

If such programming were readily available OTA, there would be less of an inducement for viewers to pay those heavy monthly bills.

Who cares how they would react. It's Disney's programing they can do what they want.

Every major cable company and both DirecTv and Dish carry HSN yet in many areas it's available over OTA. Where are the threats? Where is the outrage? for example in Nashville it's available on UHF 24. Yet Comcast still carries it.

But then Disney probably wouldn't be able to negotiate as large a carriage fee as they currently get from cable and satellite companies, which would argue that some viewers might leave them for OTA because of it.

(added: SnellKrell beat me to it!)

I seriously doubt anyone would leave cable or sat because ABC Family would then be available OTA. The carriage fee wouldn't change because for something like ABC Family and similar channels won't practically non-existent anyways.

Anyways it was just an idea.

I don't know if 300 ohm twinlead is even still made, but a folded dipole as we used for FM would be inexpensive and offer moderate gain. Then a balun to 75 ohms ...I made one cut for rf4. I can't get a lock at 28 miles. Still no CBS WHBF on the garage tv. I have no trouble receiving the UHF stations using my YouTube antenna.

Who cares how they would react. It's Disney's programing they can do what they want.

Every major cable company and both DirecTv and Dish carry HSN yet in many areas it's available over OTA. Where are the threats? Where is the outrage? for example in Nashville it's available on UHF 24. Yet Comcast still carries it.



I seriously doubt anyone would leave cable or sat because ABC Family would then be available OTA. The carriage fee wouldn't change because for something like ABC Family and similar channels won't practically non-existent anyways.

Anyways it was just an idea.

Just wondering, is your degree in Broadcast Business or
Broadcast Engineering?

Every major cable company and both DirecTv and Dish carry HSN yet in many areas it's available over OTA. Where are the threats? Where is the outrage? for example in Nashville it's available on UHF 24. Yet Comcast still carries it.HSN is a different animal. They make their money by people watching, calling in and buying their products directly from them. They're not really cannibalizing anything by having a free signal in some areas. Also, I'm not sure exactly what the arrangements are, but I think whomever carries these shopping channels gets some kind of compensation based on the calls they generate from their area.

According to the FCC's website, some Christian ministry now has an application for a 300 watt low power digital station on channel 2 here in Bakersfield. I wonder if I will be able to receive it. I hope they do build this station, as all this talk about digital on low VHF has me curious.

According to the FCC's website, some Christian ministry now has an application for a 300 watt low power digital station on channel 2 here in Bakersfield. I wonder if I will be able to receive it. I hope they do build this station, as all this talk about digital on low VHF has me curious.

Especially odd as Bakersfield has been an all-UHF market for a long time -- until recently (when KERO moved to 10 for DTV), I doubt many folks there even had VHF antennas, except maybe to pick up out-of-market stations, no?

What many predict will happen when the FCC starts accepting new full-power DTV applications is that some of the now-vacated lo-VHF channels in the bigger markets are going to be highly sought after, by applicants that care little about OTA and just want "must carry" status on cable.

Another station bails on VHF. WINK in Fort Myers wants to move from 9 to 50. 1000 kW ND.

- Trip

The only interesting FCC filing this evening was a VHF Nightmare. WJHL in Johnson City wants an increase from 25.5 kW to 34.5 kW on channel 11.

- Trip

Another station bails on VHF. WINK in Fort Myers wants to move from 9 to 50. 1000 kW ND.

Where'd you hear that, Trip? I don't see an FCC entry for this yet. Or is it just scuttlebutt and they haven't actually filed yet?

I post these things on my Channel Change page as soon as I know about them. But here's the link directly to the FCC PRM: http://fjallfoss.fcc.gov/prod/ecfs/retrieve.cgi?native_or_pdf=pdf&id_document=7020038318

- Trip

Ironic, WINK was the last Fort Myers station to go on the air in digital because the FCC gave them UHF and the fought to get VHF9.

What many predict will happen when the FCC starts accepting new full-power DTV applications is that some of the now-vacated lo-VHF channels in the bigger markets are going to be highly sought after, by applicants that care little about OTA and just want "must carry" status on cable.

It sounds like the "must carry" concept needs to be re-thought if stations go to Low-VHF just for cable carriage. No/few actually OTA viewers probably doesn't much if a station can get carriage in markets like NYC, LA and Philly, etc., just because of this rule. Low operating costs and no expectation of a signal from the OTA viewers makes this even more attractive. They will be effectively "virtual" broadcasters. This is already happening in NYC and Philly, due to an old loophole.

This is one of the many reasons 2-6 should have been done away with.

Why some low power stations with no must carry status think they can be successful on 2-6 is beyond me.

WKYT's request for 36 has advanced to the next step:

AMENDMENT OF SECTION 73.622(I), POST-TRANSITION TABLE OF DTV ALLOTMENTS, TELEVISION BROADCAST STATIONS, LEXINGTON, KENTUCKY. Proposed channel substitution for stations WKYT-TV from channel 13 to 36. (Dkt No. RM-11562 09-163 ). Action by: Chief, Video Division, Media Bureau. Adopted: 09/10/2009 by NPRM. (DA No. 09-2041).

Ironic, WINK was the last Fort Myers station to go on the air in digital because the FCC gave them UHF and the fought to get VHF9.

WINK's original digital assignment was on channel 53, which was deleted by the FCC as of June 12, 2009. They fought to get off of channel 53 so they would not have to build out a facility that would then have to be shut down and thrown away after the transition.

Channel 9 just happened to be an open channel in the area. I imagine they'd have fought to get another UHF if channel 9 had not been available.

- Trip

I post these things on my Channel Change page as soon as I know about them. But here's the link directly to the FCC PRM: http://fjallfoss.fcc.gov/prod/ecfs/retrieve.cgi?native_or_pdf=pdf&id_document=7020038318

Odd that it doesn't show up when I do a search on today's apps. Oh, well...

Odd that it doesn't show up when I do a search on today's apps. Oh, well...

I find terribly mixed results when I search for PRMs.

The FCC seems to categorize them in some weird way that confuses their search engine.

The same sort of search keywords that will yield success with one PRM, might not with another.

WKYT's request for 36 has advanced to the next step:

AMENDMENT OF SECTION 73.622(I), POST-TRANSITION TABLE OF DTV ALLOTMENTS, TELEVISION BROADCAST STATIONS, LEXINGTON, KENTUCKY. Proposed channel substitution for stations WKYT-TV from channel 13 to 36. (Dkt No. RM-11562 09-163 ). Action by: Chief, Video Division, Media Bureau. Adopted: 09/10/2009 by NPRM. (DA No. 09-2041).Interesting footnote to this NPRM:

"According to Gray [Television Inc., owner of WKYT], this channel substitution proposal is predicted to result in a loss of service to 36,342 persons located primarily in the mountainous regions of eastern Kentucky ... Gray asserts, however, that due to terrain blockage, the actual loss is reduced to 11,858 persons, and all but 941 of these persons would maintain CBS network service from other CBS network stations ... Gray also states that 'no person located in this loss area was within WKYT’s analog Grade B contour,' and given the significant reception problems it has experienced on digital channel 13, it is 'unsure if anyone located in the loss area was ever able to receive WKYT’s channel 13 digital signal.' "

hey Trip I noticed on the FCC daily digest today it says
DIGITAL TV APPLICATIONS FOR LICENSE TO COVER GRANTED



construction permit no: BMPEDT-20020426AAH,
callsign WLJT.
WEST TENNESSEE PUBLIC TV
COUNCIL, INC
WLJT-DT
71645
TN BLEDT-20080219BJY


construction permit no: BPCDT-20080226ABH,
callsign WBBJ-TV.
TENNESSEE BROADCASTING
PARTNERS
WBBJ-DT
65204
TN BLCDT-20080414ABS

So exactly what exactly did they get permission for and how is that different than what they had going on up until today.

The empowering answer is to look up the construction permits cited using the CDBS search utility at http://svartifoss2.fcc.gov/prod/cdbs/pubacc/prod/app_sear.htm

It sounds like the "must carry" concept needs to be re-thought if stations go to Low-VHF just for cable carriage. No/few actually OTA viewers probably doesn't much if a station can get carriage in markets like NYC, LA and Philly, etc., just because of this rule. Low operating costs and no expectation of a signal from the OTA viewers makes this even more attractive. They will be effectively "virtual" broadcasters. This is already happening in NYC and Philly, due to an old loophole.

This is one of the many reasons 2-6 should have been done away with.

Why some low power stations with no must carry status think they can be successful on 2-6 is beyond me.

Amen!

The loophole has been found and used. "Marginal" stations have forced cable and satellite companies to provide them carriage when precious bandwidth is at a premium.

Additionally, here in the NY DMA, many of them try to place their facilities on the Empire State Building! Where they're getting the dollars for such a high rent district is beyond me.

The Commission should take notice and do something, fast!

Odd that it doesn't show up when I do a search on today's apps. Oh, well...

Go to the ECFS and search for PRM09MB, in all caps, and it's the first result.

So exactly what exactly did they get permission for and how is that different than what they had going on up until today.

Nothing changed. They filed for final licenses way back in 2008 (!) and the FCC is just now getting around to issuing them.

The FCC is not known for its speediness.

- Trip

Go to the ECFS and search for PRM09MB, in all caps, and it's the first result.

OK...the ECFS? I'm familiar with the CDBS (wow, acronym overload) which I search daily -- are we talking about some separate database? All I know is, looking up today's Florida apps in the CDBS shows nothing for WINK, and searching on the calls also shows zilch. I wouldn't know the thing was "PRM09MB" and would not have searched by that -- why won't it come up by state and/or calls?

I'm a novice at trawling through the bureaucratic FCC maze -- enlighten me. ;)

http://fjallfoss.fcc.gov//prod/ecfs/comsrch_v2.cgi

Go there. Search "PRM09MB." All caps, no quotes, no period. Up will come 23 results, the first of which is the WINK petition.

Keep in mind that channel changes are not modifications, which are placed in the CDBS, but are actual petitions to change the Table of Allotments, which is codified in 47CFR73.622, and thus requires an actual legal proceeding. Thus why they show up in there.

Of course, knowing to look for PRM09MB... well, there's a reason why the FCC site is considered so unfriendly.

This is why I maintain my channel change page, because it's just too confusing to direct people through the FCC site.

- Trip

In case it interests anyone: http://www.rabbitears.info/oddsandends.php?request=tsid

I also added TSIDs to the market listings, but I don't like where I put them. I have to find a permanent spot.

- Trip

The only interesting FCC filing this evening was a VHF Nightmare. WJHL in Johnson City wants an increase from 25.5 kW to 34.5 kW on channel 11.

- Trip

And they still technically won't cover their entire market area... :)

Hehe.

WLS was approved their move from 7 to 44.

http://hraunfoss.fcc.gov/edocs_public/attachmatch/DA-09-2052A1.pdf

- Trip

Amen!

The loophole has been found and used. "Marginal" stations have forced cable and satellite companies to provide them carriage when precious bandwidth is at a premium.

Additionally, here in the NY DMA, many of them try to place their facilities on the Empire State Building! Where they're getting the dollars for such a high rent district is beyond me.

The Commission should take notice and do something, fast!We have a couple of interesting cases out here, but they developed largely because this market has four far-flung metro areas. Cedar Rapids is 58 miles from Waterloo, 26 miles from Iowa City, and 72 miles from Dubuque -- and from Waterloo it's a 93-mile drive down U.S. 20 to Dubuque.

One of those is KFXB-40 in Dubuque, with a transmitter across the river from the "Key City." Until recently it was a satellite station of KFXA Fox 28 in Cedar Rapids, branded together as "Fox 28 and 40." The owners of KFXB recently sold the station to Christian Television Network, which severed its ties to KFXA and launched a schedule of religious programming. Although KFXB isn't centrally located and not received well in Cedar Rapids, it's carried on cable here because Dubuque is part of the Cedar Rapids-Waterloo-Iowa City-Dubuque DMA.

The other is Equity's KWWF. They put out an underpowered signal from Waterloo which I couldn't get a whiff of in the analog world. Plans for a more favorable transmitter site never materialized.

Cable was probably less reluctant to take them at first since they started out as a UPN station in a market without one, but they were left without a major network after UPN died, and the CW and My both affiliated with the much more powerful -- though not perfect -- KWKB. Still, our local Mediacom carried it after it became RTN, and later as an independent station, and they even aired a placeholder graphic in its slot for a couple of months after they failed to go digital on June 12: "Due to technical difficulties at KWWF, we are presently unable to receive this station's signal."

Mediacom gave up and dropped them from the lineup this month.

Hehe.

WLS was approved their move from 7 to 44.

http://hraunfoss.fcc.gov/edocs_public/attachmatch/DA-09-2052A1.pdf

- TripReading that, it appears WLS was doomed from the get-go -- only 4.75 kW in an urban area with "high-rise buildings where indoor reception is severely impaired due to wall attenuation." It was also noted that WOOD in Grand Rapids, MI uses channel 7 as well, limiting any potential for WLS to hike its power on that channel.

WLS is currently operating at 9.5kW via STA. Still not as good as going UHF.

The FCC has approved the moves of both KNAZ and WHDH to UHF.

- Trip

The FCC has approved the moves of both KNAZ and WHDH to UHF.


As far as the allocation table goes at least.

They are already broadcasting with the specs on the R&O's, right?

The FCC has approved the moves of both KNAZ and WHDH to UHF.

- TripSo Gannett now wants to move a station (KNAZ) from 2? After moving WLBZ to 2?

But I thought channel 2 hugs the earth better ... :rolleyes:

So Gannett now wants to move a station (KNAZ) from 2? After moving WLBZ to 2?

But I thought channel 2 hugs the earth better ... :rolleyes:

Yes, true, but that's the problem. The signal hugs the earth so tightly that it won't let go to climb up to the antenna.... :p

As far as the allocation table goes at least.

They are already broadcasting with the specs on the R&O's, right?

Yes. For KNAZ, it will be solely paperwork. For WHDH, it will mean the silencing of 7.

So Gannett now wants to move a station (KNAZ) from 2? After moving WLBZ to 2?

But I thought channel 2 hugs the earth better ... :rolleyes:

In both cases, they wanted to reuse the existing analog antennas on the tops of the towers. However, after making the channel 2 election, KNAZ's antenna burned itself up over a period of months, and now would need to be replaced. Since Gannett is trying to sell KNAZ and thus doesn't want to put any money into a tower crew and new channel 2 antenna, they decided to just keep the UHF which is already built out.

Plus, I imagine a channel 22 signal would bring in more money in a sale than a channel 2 signal. How times have changed.

- Trip

Plus, I imagine a channel 22 signal would bring in more money in a sale than a channel 2 signal. How times have changed.

- Trip

You don't say;)

Speaking of WLBZ, I was sent the following link:

WLBZ switch causing problems

http://www.bangordailynews.com/detail/120891.html

They still seem to be in denial:


Horan said it was impossible to quantify how many people the latest change has helped.

“There’s no way really to gauge it,” she said. “We’re going to end up with a net gain [in viewers]. But we’re hearing from those with problems now.”

Why in h*** is WLBZ only running 3kW on channel 2 !?!

As far as I can tell, they are not short-spaced to anybody, and their tower is not overtall (in fact, their HAAT is 629', well below the Zone I benchmark of 1000'), so they should have at least 10kW.

It they could move to a site only about 18 miles further North, they would be in Zone II, and could run 45kW - fifteen times the current power!

Tonight's VHF Nightmare(s):

KCCI wants a fill-in translator on channel 31, operating at 15 kW DA.

- Trip

Why in h*** is WLBZ only running 3kW on channel 2 !?!

According to the computer models, it only takes 3kW to replicate their old 51.3kW analog facility. :rolleyes:

When I challenged them on this in July, I was given the following response:

I know it sounds like pretty low power but the computer modeling shows that 3kW ERP actually covers a greater area than we previously covered with our analog channel 2. All other things being equal, digital television receivers require less signal density than the older analog signals. Channel 2 propagates very well. It takes a lot less energy to radiate a low VHF signal over a given distance than it does to transmit a UHF channel. There are no plans to move to a different channel assignment. We also have no plans at this time to increase the channel 2 digital power. First we have to see how it performs. An increase in power would only be permitted if it did not interfere with any other licensed services (other channel 2s) or with Canadian broadcasting. We plan to begin broadcasting on channel 2 again around Labor Day. Would love to hear from you then to see how it is working.


I gave them some more info after I received this response, but their minds seemed to have been made up.

Tonight's VHF Nightmare(s):

KCCI wants a fill-in translator on channel 31, operating at 15 kW DA.

- TripI found this one interesting, and perhaps a bit perplexing.

Unlike competitor WOI, it appears KCCI is planning to put this translator at its main antenna farm near Alleman, IA, about halfway between the market's two metro areas of Des Moines and Ames. So essentially, they're going to be transmitting 28.3 kW on channel 8, and 15 kW on channel 31, from the same place.

More punch on a higher channel from about 15 miles out of downtown at just a little over half the power? We shall see ...

WCPO has filed a channel change request, but we won't know what channel until morning.

- Trip

WCPO requested 1000' 1000 kW ND on channel 22.

- Trip

When I challenged them on this in July, I was given the following response:

Would love to hear from you then to see how it is working.

I gave them some more info after I received this response, but their minds seemed to have been made up.

Do they realize that you're not in Bangor, or anywhere in Maine? 3kW digital channel 2 is NOT going to get them to Southern California...heh!

If anything, he probably has a better chance of seeing it by double hop skip than some people in the market do with indoor antennas.

- Trip

They were a lot more ERP when I caught them twice on 2Es decades ago

WLBZ ME, Bangor (1938 mi)
(CST,
mm-dd-yyyy GMT-6)
-- -- ---- ----
05-30-1974 1728 Es
05-24-1983 1844 Es

Likely in here burried many more times by the one-hop stuff.

WCPO requested 1000' 1000 kW ND on channel 22.

- Trip


One wonders just how much better they will do with this switch. They will gain in terms of building penetration and signal-to-noise, but may lose a few viewers to terrain (far more complex than Toledo or Chicago).

I sure hope WKRC also makes a move to UHF so they don't get "orphaned".

From yahoo technology -- do we know this guy...


Mark Colombo, a TV enthusiast and electrical engineering student who maintains an online database of the country's TV stations, said "everyone who had any sense" knew that broadcasting digitally on channel 6 or lower would yield terrible reception. Those channels are susceptible to interference from household electronics, spark plugs in passing cars and distant thunderstorms.

http://tech.yahoo.com/news/ap/20090918/ap_on_hi_te/us_tec_dtv_woes_1

From yahoo technology -- do we know this guy...

Mark who? ;)

Mark who? ;)

Isn't he the television detective with the dirty raincoat?

One wonders just how much better they will do with this switch. They will gain in terms of building penetration and signal-to-noise, but may lose a few viewers to terrain (far more complex than Toledo or Chicago).

I sure hope WKRC also makes a move to UHF so they don't get "orphaned".

I imagine it will help much more than hinder.

As far as I can tell, channel 18 is still available should WKRC wish to move to UHF.

From yahoo technology -- do we know this guy...


Mark Colombo, a TV enthusiast and electrical engineering student who maintains an online database of the country's TV stations, said "everyone who had any sense" knew that broadcasting digitally on channel 6 or lower would yield terrible reception. Those channels are susceptible to interference from household electronics, spark plugs in passing cars and distant thunderstorms.

You missed this:

But the nature of the DTV transition — with nearly all major-city stations turning off on the same day as mandated by Congress — didn't make it easier to identify and deal with reception issues. Colombo, the TV enthusiast, points out that in Wilmington, N.C., where the FCC encouraged TV stations to shut down last September as a test for the big day, all the digital TV stations used UHF. The area also lacks large hills that can block signals.

"It was basically the ideal market," he said. "You could not ask for an easier market to deal with than Wilmington."

Mark who? ;)

;)

Isn't he the television detective with the dirty raincoat?

:D

- Trip

The FCC has approved ... WHDH to UHF.
Great news since WHDH was Massachusetts VHF orphan here in Southern NH.

Sorry for the newbie question but why are they still showing as DS-APP on your site?
http://www.rabbitears.info/search.php?request=zip_search&zipcode=03055&miles=60

What does that indicate?

/tom

Technically, WWDP is also a VHF, but I doubt anyone misses it. ;)

As to your question, there's two reasons.

First of all, there's a delay between the time the FCC approves a petition to change channels and the time they can actually apply for a construction permit. After a few weeks, you'll see a DT-APP show up which should quickly become a DT-CP. Then, since the facility is already built, they'll file some paperwork to license it, but the FCC is known to take a very, very long time to grant the license and thus have it display as DT-LIC. I'll be removing the listing for the DS-APP as soon as the DT-CP shows up.

In this case, DS means they have special temporary authority to operate channel 42. Now, the FCC actually granted it back in June, so it should read "DS-STA" or something like that, but for whatever reason, my site's code has recently become unable to detect this and lists all digital STAs as "DS-APP" lately (or LD-APP for low-powered STAs). I'm not sure whether it's my end or the FCC database, but it's something I hope to look into at some point.

- Trip

As to your question, there's two reasons.
Thanks for the explanation. I didn't realize station had to apply for a construction permit. I though that was explicit in the application.

As for DS I assumed that was some sort of artifact of the temporary digital authority. There are several DS orphans floating around.

The WHDH action was a petition, not an application. Petitions are formal requests modify the Code of Federal Regulations. Since all full-service stations have an allotment in 47CFR73.622, a station wishing to change its channel must have that section modified to delete their old channel and replace it with the new one.

Once the FCC approves the change to the table of allotments and it is published in the federal register (thus the delay), then an application can be filed.

- Trip

Tonight's VHF nightmare is KGUN, who is asking to increase power from 10.3 kW to 15 kW. I don't expect this to make any difference.

- Trip

KGUN, who is asking to increase power from 10.3 kW to 15 kW.
Way out of my expertise, as I am not a broadcast engineer, but it is hard to understand how 1.5 dB increase will make much difference.

Maybe it's the max power out of existing equipment...

I guess they figure that the equipment will do it and it's cheap to do. It really won't make much of a difference to most people.

I'll be surprised if KGUN doesn't end up ultimately applying to go back to UHF. They're the lone VHF at that tower site. Doesn't make a whole lot of sense.

- Trip

I'll be surprised if KGUN doesn't end up ultimately applying to go back to UHF. They're the lone VHF at that tower site. Doesn't make a whole lot of sense.

I've found myself muttering that phrase in regard to many aspects of the DTV transition... :D

I don't know who Granbury Communications is, but they need a date with the FCC power limits in their applications for new stations.

- Trip

Tonight's VHF nightmare would appear to be WAGM in Presque Isle ME, who requests an increase from 6.9 kW up to 10 kW. I'm not sure if I should count it or not.

This isn't a VHF nightmare, and... I think this one speaks for itself. http://fjallfoss.fcc.gov/cgi-bin/ws.exe/prod/cdbs/forms/prod/prefill_and_display.pl?Application_id=1333884&Service=DS&Form_id=911&Facility_id=83715

- Trip

Latest new feature, a list of Canadian allotments: http://www.rabbitears.info/oddsandends.php?request=canada&class=&sort=loc&province=

- Trip

I think this one speaks for itself. http://fjallfoss.fcc.gov/cgi-bin/ws.exe/prod/cdbs/forms/prod/prefill_and_display.pl?Application_id=1333884&Service=DS&Form_id=911&Facility_id=83715
Looks like they are having a fire sale.

Anyone know what on Earth is on KHLM-LD 43-2 in Houston? It has "mbc" in the corner but does not match the MBC logo for any broadcaster with that name that I can find.

- Trip

Hey Trip,

Here's the informations on MBC, which is from South Korea.

MBC is doing a Korean American and real South Korean'S TV programings....

Here's the link!!:)

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/MBC_(Korea)

The informations may not be up to date, and you know how Wiki's website are, so take a grain of salt.:D

9-22-09

As I said, that logo does not match the one shown on KHLM 43-2. http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/9/99/Snapshot_14415373.jpg

- Trip

Trip,

Logos may have changed with new style looks, but then again I could be wrong.....

Do you get the logo's picture, from the station's website in Houston?:)

9-22-09

Trip,

Logos may have changed with new style looks, but then again I could be wrong.....

Do you get the logo's picture, from the station's website in Houston?:)

9-22-09

I got it from SiliconDust which updates with screenshots multiple times per day. That particular image comes from Wikipedia, but is the same as the present logo.

The MBC logo shown on the MBC (Korea) website is presently being shown on KTSF. I doubt they have changed logos.

- Trip

Lots of fun FCC action this evening.

First of all, WPXN wants to bump power from 100 kW to 180 kW. Otherwise, no changes.

Second, WHSV wants to light up channel 51 in Staunton while the permanent application remains up in the air. This is one of the planned translators to fix the problem they have with terrain shielding. This station operated analog on channel 3 and the digital on channel 49 simply does not do as well.

KZTV in Corpus Christi is currently operating DT-18 at 71 kW under STA. They have a permit to move to channel 10 at 13.5 kW, but have filed to modify that permit to 39 kW on the existing analog antenna. I'm tempted to call it a VHF Nightmare, but since it's not actually operating, I don't think that's a fair assessment.

The VHF nightmares of the evening are newcomers:

KWWL-7 in Waterloo IA wants to increase power from 30 kW to 49 kW under STA. They actually already applied for this power level but since it exceeds all FCC limits, it remains pending.

WTVD-11 in Durham NC wants to increase power from 20.7 kW to 45 kW. Interference agreements were signed with WVPT, WTVI, WNCT, and WCTI for this power level. It, too, exceeds all FCC limits.

- Trip

KZTV was having objections raised by XHX in Monterrey to their reverting to Ch 10 for DT - though they (sort of ?) co-existed as analogs there for several decades with all that Gulf Coast tropo. As we now have local DT-10(LP) and DT-18 I wont notice the outcome here.

Lots of fun FCC action this evening.


WTVD-11 in Durham NC wants to increase power from 20.7 kW to 45 kW. Interference agreements were signed with WVPT, WTVI, WNCT, and WCTI for this power level. It, too, exceeds all FCC limits.

- Trip

That's sick. I wonder what WTVD had to do to get all those in agreements with this idea?

Trip,

Logos may have changed with new style looks, but then again I could be wrong.....

Do you get the logo's picture, from the station's website in Houston?:)

9-22-09

Gridlock Joe in the Houston thread provided the answer. http://www.watchmbc.com/

- Trip

WVUE's move to 29 is approved.

- Trip

From the Sh*ts and Giggles Department, an LPTV application for Key West that is a picture postcard example of "Too Much Information:"

https://fjallfoss.fcc.gov/cgi-bin/ws.exe/prod/cdbs/forms/prod/cdbsmenu.hts?context=25&appn=101330470&formid=346&fac_num=182546

Someone needs to explain to Ms. Sparacio that an FCC application is not a forum to make a speech whining and lamenting the state of OTA TV in the Keys or the high prices of cable and satellite service, or laying out in excruciating detail her grandiose plans for her "network," none of which is going to have any influence in whether or not she is granted a permit. :rolleyes:

You missed the most amusing part!

The part where it requests 100 kW. The power limit being 15 kW.

- Trip

I didn't even notice that! I was so caught up being inspired by her sermon...

Well, I'm sure once the FCC reads her app and realizes what a noble cause it is, surely they will make an exception... :rolleyes:

Funny thing is, I've seen other Keys apps from her in recent weeks, and none of them had anything like this tirade/sermon/speech in them. Maybe she thinks her heartfelt appeal will speed up the process.

Did I read that right and the antenna is only about 90 feet above the ground? Exactly what is that going to do? Reach her backyard?

100 kw at 90 feet.....she won't need a toaster -- just hold the bread up in the air and watch it fry!

Very good chances that her's filed application, will be turned down by the FCC.:o

She should have hired someones, that knows technical stuffs RF and antenna and fill out a applications to the FCC!:p

9-23-09

Perhaps she meant 0.1 kW? It is an easy mistake to enter watts on a form intended for kW.
What is the minimum power for a LP station?

(BTW: If it is 100w it is probably 1w for each year of the applicant's life so far. :) )

The 100kW app does not show up in the FCC's search (LD in Florida) (http://www.fcc.gov/fcc-bin/tvq?state=FL&call=&arn=&city=&chan=&cha2=69&serv=LD&type=0&facid=&list=1&dist=&dlat2=&mlat2=&slat2=&dlon2=&mlon2=&slon2=&size=9) although five applications for this person do ... all as 4kW applications ... three of them at 30ft above ground level!

Lots of fun FCC action this evening.

First of all, WPXN wants to bump power from 100 kW to 180 kW.


I wonder how much of an effect this will have on WPPX.

Did I read that right and the antenna is only about 90 feet above the ground? Exactly what is that going to do? Reach her backyard?

Who knows. WSBS-DT 3 wants to do 45 kW ND at 177 feet, so it's not without precedent down there.

- Trip

If you're concerned with 180kw down on the Mooring Mast for WPXN, just wait if the station's application for 349kW at 1302' comes to fruition!

With most of the intended (land-based) Keys audience confined to two narrow azimuths without any terrain issues then any LPTV TL sited there with very modest HAGLs ought to suffice quite well (if it kept within the RFexposure limits). That verbose language in that application reminds one more of what a license renewal might contain.

KDRV wants another fill-in translator, but in that area, I can't say I'm surprised.

KTVB now requests an STA to boost from 31 kW to 62.3 kW.

- Trip

You missed the most amusing part!

The part where it requests 100 kW. The power limit being 15 kW.

- Trip

I don't think a Scala SL-8 will handle TPO of 100kw! She really needs to pay an engineering consultant. This app gets bounced.

From the Sh*ts and Giggles Department, an LPTV application for Key West that is a picture postcard example of "Too Much Information:"

https://fjallfoss.fcc.gov/cgi-bin/ws.exe/prod/cdbs/forms/prod/cdbsmenu.hts?context=25&appn=101330470&formid=346&fac_num=182546

Someone needs to explain to Ms. Sparacio that an FCC application is not a forum to make a speech whining and lamenting the state of OTA TV in the Keys or the high prices of cable and satellite service, or laying out in excruciating detail her grandiose plans for her "network," none of which is going to have any influence in whether or not she is granted a permit. :rolleyes:

Wow! I didn't realize that ANYONE could apply for a TV station. This will be quite an interesting APP to follow (even though we can all pretty much predict the result).

An interesting read from TVNewsCheck. Thanks to SnellKrell for the link!

Digital VHF Needs A Power Boost

http://www.tvnewscheck.com/articles/2009/09/24/daily.2/?page=1

In this interview with TVNewsCheck, Mertz says high-band VHF (channels 7-13) for fixed and mobile reception can be remedied with more transmission power, something that he hopes the FCC will consider granting. As for low-band VHF, his message is simple: Abandon all hope.

Never did figure out the reasoning that for planning purposes the U's generally got 1000 kW digital v. 5000 kW analog (leaving out the cutbacks for big HAATs) where Vs only got 45 kW digital v. 316 kW analog. Granted 1/5(316) is only 63.2 kW, not that big of a bump. Guessing it was a compromise re VHF's more crowded band-plan.

FWIW: in crowded zone I areas, maybe the Us in smaller markets should be traded for high band Vs in large markets wherever those trades are feasible. My rationale is there are fewer people in high density housing in the smalls, %-wise.

Actually, the original planning for UHFs did not call for 1000 kW digital vs. 5000 kW analog.

UHF analogs were mostly allotted between 50 and 200 kW for digital. It was only VHF stations that were trying to replicate their analog coverage on a UHF digital signal that were initially granted 1000 kW.

When you divide 5000 kW by 200 kW, you get 25. So dividing 316 kW by 25 gives you 12.64 kW. 100 kW (low-VHF) divided by 25 gives you 4 kW. Suddenly, the VHF numbers don't look quite as small.

And in reality, the power caps vary with height and where you are. KIII in Corpus Christi runs 160 kW on channel 8 due to their low tower height.

Frequency (Zone I, Zone II)

Low-VHF (305m 10 kW, 305m 45 kW to 610m 10 kW)
High-VHF (305m 30 kW, 305m 160 kW to 610m 30 kW)
UHF (365m 1000 kW, 365m 1000 kW to 610m 316 kW)

I'd have to look up what the analog power limits were, but I know there were similar height vs power caps on VHF in Zone I at least. (Is it sad that I know the digital power limits off the top of my head?)

In all cases, there exists a rule that lets stations power up to match the coverage of the largest station in the market. In addition, VHF stations that were trying to match their analog VHF coverage with digital UHF got more power than the limit otherwise allowed.

All of that said, I completely agree that the VHF power limits need to be raised based on real world results. 63.2 kW would be a good start, but more should be an option if needed.

(BTW, no interesting FCC action this evening. Just WCBS wanting to boost power from 284 kW to 426 kW.)

- Trip

In spite of a low antenna, KIII-DT-8 with its higher ERP has a wide presence in this tropo-ridden region - likely far greater than they ever had in their 45 years as an NTSC on Ch 3. In one KLRN FCC filing they noted that whenever they shut off their own interim DT-8 signal KIII-DT-8 would often appear here on their off-air monitor!

I'd have to look up what the analog power limits were, but I know there were similar height vs power caps on VHF in Zone I at least. (Is it sad that I know the digital power limits off the top of my head?)

Not at all! Growing up in SE Iowa, we had two stations that did battle with co-channels across the Mississippi. KCCI-8 in Des Moines, maxed out in Zone II at 316 kW/2000' vs. WQAD-8 Moline IL 316 kW at 1000' (I think) Anyway,1000' was the height limit for zone I. Also, similar situation w/KWWL-7 Waterloo, 316 kW/2000' v KHQA-7 Hannibal MO but w/xmtr at Quincy IL, 316 kW/750' (IIRC)

Anyway, both pairs were separated by 170 miles, which made for constant co-channel venetion blinds on the Iowa stations we watched. Analog Zone II separations were 190 miles co-channel, Zone I 170 miles co-channel. Between zones, as above, 170 miles. Low band had the same height limits for zones I and II.

Don't know what happened between co-channels between zones II and III.

I used to know the separations for FM stations back when it was just A, B and C, but now with A's, two varieties of B's, 5 of C's...no way!

Very good chances that her's filed application, will be turned down by the FCC.:o

Reminds me of this application for WJJL/1440 Niagara Falls NY, filed by the supposed estranged wife of the licensee/debtor in possession:

https://fjallfoss.fcc.gov/cgi-bin/ws.exe/prod/cdbs/forms/prod/cdbsmenu.hts?context=25&appn=101010437&formid=316&fac_num=39517

The application was filed by someone who took that woman's name on various radio message boards, in what we all basically considered an attempt at online comedy. I'm not sure the FCC was chuckling.

Oh, for crying out loud, "she" did it again two years later!

https://fjallfoss.fcc.gov/cgi-bin/ws.exe/prod/cdbs/forms/prod/cdbsmenu.hts?context=25&appn=101124937&formid=303&fac_num=39517

The FCC dismissed this fake renewal the same day it issued the correct one. I can't believe this person, whoever it is, isn't facing some sort of trouble for repeatedly defrauding a federal agency.

Re: the Key West app - I wonder if "House Down the Lane" is part of her mailing address, and if the "Cracked Egg Cafe", one of her supposedly proposed other transmitter sites, is where she really lives...

Actually, the original planning for UHFs did not call for 1000 kW digital vs. 5000 kW analog.

- Trip

Note that the 5000 kW was not the original UHF analog maximum, it had been 1000 kW, and changed to 5000 kW a long time ago (1958, IIRC).


Speaking of WPXN, anyone have any idea why their app for future operation from New 1WTC has really deep nulls in the direction of Brooklyn and Queens?

Protecting Bermuda !?! (LOL)

Future operation from 1WTC, add to that future operation of Ion - both very iffy.

2014 latest and ever changing estimate for 1WTC - no deal in place for broadcasters to pay the big bucks for the contstruction of the mast facility ($20m) and the yearly rental ($10m) - no less Ion being in bankruptcy!

Add to all of that, Ion keeps beating the drum for DTS.

Re: the Key West app - I wonder if "House Down the Lane" is part of her mailing address,
She varies it in different places on the applications.
Around here houses behind other houses are given different addresses ... even "213 1/2" type addresses. Apparently this one is just behind another?

http://www.mapquest.com/mq/9-2UMeZX0M

I don't think it is just a cute name for the house.

She varies it in different places on the applications.
Around here houses behind other houses are given different addresses ... even "213 1/2" type addresses. Apparently this one is just behind another?

http://www.mapquest.com/mq/9-2UMeZX0M

I don't think it is just a cute name for the house.

If you look at the Satellite view on Google Maps (http://maps.google.com/maps?f=q&source=s_q&hl=en&geocode=&q=813+Eaton+St.,+Key+West+FL&ie=UTF8&ll=24.559888,-81.79979&spn=0.001105,0.001725&t=h&z=19&iwloc=A), all will become clear. Note that the house is actually down a short street called Gecko Ln., and set behind other houses on Eaton St. So, if the mailing address is on Eaton, the "house down the lane" clues in delivery personnel that the house is not really "on" Eaton. (I can see where she probably has a lot of problems with misdelivered or undelivered mail, especially if the carrier is new or temporary and unfamiliar with the quirks of Key West addresses.)

Note that Google also identifies the address as "LPTV, Inc." Her listing at the Corporation Wiki (http://www.corporationwiki.com/Florida/Key-West/Mary-Sparacio-p2698948.aspx) also shows her owning "M.Y.M.E. and S., Inc." and "The Paradise Network Corp." (Her existing Keys LPTVs are branded as "Local Paradise TV.")

Ms. Sparacio is listed in the Florida Keys and Key West production directory (http://www.filmkeys.com/production_guide.cfm) as a "line producer." Her only noted credit that I can find is as co-producer and editor of a documentary about Key West drag queens (http://keywestdragqueens.com/). She also hosts the Monday Classic Movie Series at the Tropic Cinema.

So, in all fairness, Ms. Sparacio doesn't seem to be a flake or wacko -- I get the impression of a quirky, artistic, well-meaning soul in a very unconventional city (probably a native) who is passionate about Keys culture; an intuitive, creative "right-brainer" who is the polar opposite of the suits and engineers at the FCC.

Which doesn't make her application any less amusing... :D

Re: the Key West app - I wonder if "House Down the Lane" is part of her mailing address, and if the "Cracked Egg Cafe", one of her supposedly proposed other transmitter sites, is where she really lives...

There is no law that says you can't have a broadcast transmitter/station at your house, if you want to. It is always a money issue. If the coverage doesn't make you the money needed to keep the station on the air, you must be independently wealthy to pay the bills every month.

Future operation from 1WTC, add to that future operation of Ion - both very iffy.

2014 latest and ever changing estimate for 1WTC - no deal in place for broadcasters to pay the big bucks for the contstruction of the mast facility ($20m) and the yearly rental ($10m) - no less Ion being in bankruptcy!

Add to all of that, Ion keeps beating the drum for DTS.

From what I have been told by those with direct interests, the broadcast mast is a dead issue at the Freedom Tower. Ports Authority wants too much money to lease it out so the broadcasters have moved on.

From what I have been told by those with direct interests, the broadcast mast is a dead issue at the Freedom Tower. Ports Authority wants too much money to lease it out so the broadcasters have moved on.

Yeah, I think that ship sailed some time ago. The situation now is to accept the ESB site as primary and permanent, while adding backup capability at the 4 Times Square site. The latter should provide much better service in an emergency than the ad-libbed, scattered sites pressed into use in the days and weeks after 9/11 (Alpine tower, etc.).

I have posted some notes and pics of a tour I was recently given of WVUE, the FOX affiliate in New Orleans.

It can be found here:

http://www.spectra-one.com/wvuetour/wvuetour.html

Enjoy.

I have posted some notes and pics of a tour I was recently given of WVUE, the FOX affiliate in New Orleans.

It can be found here:

http://www.spectra-one.com/wvuetour/wvuetour.html

Enjoy.


Nice tour and pics, especially the old trusty and consistently unreliable floricrap automation showtimer, I see they are still stuck in the stone ages of automation and are still using floricrap instead of getting a real system, they must have relocated it from emmis centralcasting which ran master control for WVUE along with with WFTX, WALA, WBPG during the mid 2000s from WKCF in Orlando.

Emmis = What 'A' Mess! ;)

You think the new owners would want to have nothing to do with florical considering how it is what bit A Mess in the end. But maybe that was a good thing!:D

Future operation from 1WTC, add to that future operation of Ion - both very iffy.

2014 latest and ever changing estimate for 1WTC - no deal in place for broadcasters to pay the big bucks for the contstruction of the mast facility ($20m) and the yearly rental ($10m) - no less Ion being in bankruptcy!

Add to all of that, Ion keeps beating the drum for DTS.

Ah! Plans for a DTS could have explained all of those nulls (to avoid interference to DTS transmitters on Long Island)

Like you said, the question appears moot, along with the mast, the symbolic 1776' height, the pinnacle design that would have placed a minimum number of people above 700', and even the Freedom Tower name:(

And of course it didn't take long between the Port Authority and Silverstein to get rid of the whole idea of why the Freedom Tower with it's original intentions was supposed to go up, Nothing atleast as tall or higher and we let the terrorists win all due to greed. The Arabs and the Malaysians can build the Petrona Towers and other huge buildings taller than we have here but we can't even do that anymore, so pathetic.

In any event, what is it about the WCBS/WNBC/WWOR combiner that makes people receive them so much better over 30+ miles away vs the other stations on UHF even much less VHF?

I have posted some notes and pics of a tour I was recently given of WVUE, the FOX affiliate in New Orleans.

It can be found here:

http://www.spectra-one.com/wvuetour/wvuetour.html

Enjoy.

Nice pictures. All stations use many consumer grade TV's around the station strictly due to cost. Why pay $3k for a TV that is only used to show confidence that something is happening that a $99 TV from WalMart can do?

We just recently upgraded our 4:3's with 30 $230 LG 19" TV's from Best Buy. You can't get 'pro' models for less than $2k each and there really isn't that much difference in PQ.

Here is a picture during our rebuilding master control in 2006 (I don't have any completed pictures, yet). The monitors on the racks? LCD computer monitors ($250 bucks each) with a special 4x4 quad box that will do multiple input formats and output formats. The monitors will die LONG before the quad boxes will so it is an inexpensive way to get the job done.

http://www.w4cl.net/fox/master/p4060009web.jpg

100 kw at 90 feet.....she won't need a toaster -- just hold the bread up in the air and watch it fry!

Not to bring this back up, but it occurred to me that there are some full-service stations in similar situations.

Check out WCCU, WPXS, or the permit that WTLF had at one time.

- Trip

New features on RabbitEars, it now lists the FCC file number and the city of license for the application in the Technical Data section. More will come next weekend or sooner.

EDIT: Also, by adding the extra line, it allowed me to make the directional pattern images even bigger now. :)

Also, with many thanks to Scott Fybush, I now have data for Binghamton, Elmira, and complete data for Rochester.

- Trip

Wow. I never knew WCCU was on a short tower, and that directional pattern, are they still running that, even though WCIU analog is no longer there? (I would guess, in the absence of any apps or CPs for WCCU, they would have to, barring an unpublished STA).

Makes my logging of WCCU from Manistique seem neater, as they are 75kW (or less) in that direction.

Also explains why WBBM would consider the channel "safe" for a channel 26 fill-in translator in Chicago.

another high power/short tower station: WADL 39 (38), Mt. Clemens, MI.

VHF Nightmare:

WDTV-5 wants to increase power from 10 kW to 39 kW under STA.

- Trip

If all those other DT-5s keep asking for and then getting increases in ERP AND KCWX-DT-5 doesn't get to become an 80-kw Goliath (satisfying itself, instead, with fill-in translators) maybe I still have some slight chance of getting one off to n.e. via Es (partially nulling KCWX):) http://www.qsl.net/wa5iyx/images/usadtv5.gif

If all those other DT-5s keep asking for and then getting increases in ERP AND KCWX-DT-5 doesn't get to become an 80-kw Goliath (satisfying itself, instead, with fill-in translators)

Like WTVF. Maybe this should tell all these Ch 5s that maybe being on RF 5 isn't really such a good idea

VHF Nightmare: WSPA has filed to convert its VHF translator network to UHF digital. This includes a tiny translator they had on channel 10 in Greenville that they're displacing to 10 kW on channel 49 on the same mountain as two local full-service stations and one at 10 kW on channel 32 serving Asheville.

WHDH has filed for their channel 42 permit.

- Trip

VHF Nightmare: WSPA has filed to convert its VHF translator network to UHF digital. This includes a tiny translator they had on channel 10 in Greenville that they're displacing to 10 kW on channel 49 on the same mountain as two local full-service stations and one at 10 kW on channel 32 serving Asheville.

Boy, I can tell you from frequent trips up there in my younger years, that's always been a tough market for OTA reception, both because of terrain, plus the fact that the major network affiliates have always broadcast from widely separated sites. It wasn't uncommon in the mountainous areas of the market to not be able to get reliable signals from all the transmitters, and which channels were usable and which were a ghosty mess (or even non-existant) varied by your receiving location; often just a few miles difference would dramatically change things for the better on some channels, for the worse on others. I imagine there are a lot of cases up there of poor, but tolerable signals becoming blank screens with the DTV switch.

VHF Nightmare:

WDTV-5 wants to increase power from 10 kW to 39 kW under STA.

- Trip

At the same time, their application for a translator on 7 at the southern edge of their coverage area was approved. They also have an app for a translator on their western edge on ch. 2 (!).

WHDH has filed for their channel 42 permit.


Are they still operating on 7 as well? I don't see any indication on the Boston thread that it has been turned off yet.

Yes, still simulcasting. I imagine it will be turned off shortly after the CP is issued.

- Trip

Are they still operating on 7 as well? I don't see any indication on the Boston thread that it has been turned off yet.

It would be prudent to continue to operate 7 until the License to Cover for 42 is submitted. The FCC still considers 7 as their authorized channel. 42 is still authorized as an STA until the Program Test Authority commences with the submission of the License to Cover (Form 302-DTV). In this case, once the CP is issued, they can turn around and file the License to Cover for 42 since it is assumed they will continue to use the same STA facilities (former authorized pre-transition facilities and do not have to do anything to it) and then cease operations on 7 and alert the FCC of same and then 7 would be available for re-authorization to another station once the License to Cover is issued.

Ok, serious question here. I don't know the answer. Does anyone know if KVZK-2, KVZK-4, American Samoa (no you won't find the calls in the FCC website but they are legally issued by the FCC since American Samoa is an unincorporated territory of the USA) drop analog on June 12th or did they continue to operate NTSC? They are stations owned by the American Samoan government and operate on channels 2 and 4 with PBS, CBS and ABC programming. NBC affiliate KKHJ-LP 30 (privately owned) of course would not be effected since it is a low power.

Ok, serious question here. I don't know the answer. Does anyone know if KVZK-2, KVZK-4, American Samoa (no you won't find the calls in the FCC website but they are legally issued by the FCC since American Samoa is an unincorporated territory of the USA) drop analog on June 12th or did they continue to operate NTSC? They are stations owned by the American Samoan government and operate on channels 2 and 4 with PBS, CBS and ABC programming. NBC affiliate KKHJ-LP 30 (privately owned) of course would not be effected since it is a low power.

Does this help?

http://www.samoanews.com/viewstory.php?storyid=8736

Does this help?

http://www.samoanews.com/viewstory.php?storyid=8736

Interesting. Since KVZK is such an enigma, it is licensed by the FCC but is really a government run station and really doesn't have to follow the rules, (just like TV Marti in the Keys). Interesting that they mention KZVK-5 is back. It went dark in the early 90's after the transmitter site was damaged in a cyclone. I had heard as of 2005 it hadn't come back. Guess they took parts from KVZK-2 to put KVZK-5 on. But wonder why they would take KVZK-2 off just to put KVZK-5 back on after all this time?

I knew KVZK's were the only full power TV in the Samoas with several UHF LP's located among the different islands. Very interesting.

EDIT: Man! That newspaper site is HARD to navigate. It appears that KVZK DID convert to digital. Don't know which channelss, but in another story,

They are a federally subsidized educational TV station and at one time had 8 channels of education called “community TV” — you’ve seen it on the black and white “timefillers” on the Public Information channels that only carried PBS and AFN until cable TV arrived, then that is when the competition with free enterprise started.

Well, folks in June 2009 KVZK-TV will again have 8 channels of multicasted digital TV to compete with the two commercial stations and cable TV here. That is where you can get your “educational TV”. http://www.samoanews.com/viewstory.php?storyid=5352

Either they are on two channels (4 and 5?) or one channel with NO bandwidth left over.

Wow, the FCC site is down.

I mean, the CDBS, ECFS, and EDOCS pages are still there. Those are on svartifoss2, hraunfoss, and fjallfoss which are different servers. Looks like wireless2 is still up too.

But the TV Query and the coverage contours are not available.

EDIT: Looks like it's back now, but extremely sluggish.

- Trip

Maybe they were removing and cleaning up some of the old records like the pretransition channels that were still up there.

No, this was like the entire website was down. Not just the TV Query.

- Trip

Strange coincidence the inquiry re American Samoa shortly after the quake and tsunami hit there. I only caught the news about it on the local evening cast.

Alright, first tonight, the FCC granted an STA for a channel 26 in San Francisco at 0.03 kW. It was given a call sign K26ST-D, and is valid October 5 through October 12. No idea what it will be used for.

KWCH filed its license paperwork; the swap occurred at 9AM.

WFBT, which has not been observed on the air yet, modified their license app to show a slight bump in power.

WTVX filed for a license for the 1000 kW facility. I would assume that means it's now operating at that power level.

The FCC site is being extremely sluggish, so I'm going to post this and come back with anything else that pops up in a few.

- Trip

The PGA Tour Presidents Cup is going to be held here in San Francisco at Harding Park golf course from October 6 to 11. Maybe the new channel 26 will be used for some special purpose for that.

Larry
SF

Hey all,
I purchased one of those HDTV small OTA antennas off Ebay (the 2 ft ones that are selling for $ 25-50) off a whim. To my suprise I was picking up channels north of me in Kansas City, MO which is 85-105 miles away depending on the station. I have the antenna mounted 3 stories high attached to my chimney with clear site north. My signal highs are high 80's. The picture will maintain quality for quite some time, then....However, the signal will drop down to 0 (loss of picture or freeze), then moments later, signal goes back up as well as picture. Obviously very frustratrating knowing I can get these, but just can't seem to lock in. This unit I purchased has a remote rotor and amplifier. Anyone have any ideas of what may improve the stations maintaining a signal strength above 70%. Thanks.
Chip

Move to someplace within about 60 miles of the Kansas City transmitters!
(Sorry)

(you probably were experiencing abnormal reception by tropospheric refraction)

Actually, depending on local terrain, and the range of the KC transmitters, you MIGHT be able to get reliable reception with a different antenna and/or much higher antenna, I really can't guess from here.

Anyone have any ideas of what may improve the stations maintaining a signal strength above 70%. Thanks.
Chip

The simplest solution is a Winegard HD7698P with a rotor and a 7777 preamp.

Next is a UHF only at Kansas City such as a HD-8800 and an HD7698P at Pittsburg with two preamps, two downleads, and an A/B switch at each TV set.

There are other solutions that involve multiple antennas and no rotor, but specific location information is needed to know how to configure the antenna.

For instance, I ran this report on Fort Scott, KS: http://www.tvfool.com/?option=com_wrapper&Itemid=29&q=id%3d8ecd0572188c93

You could aim a UHF only at Kansas City, a VHF only south at Pittsburg, KS, but adding ABC and PBS is problematic.

(you probably were experiencing abnormal reception by tropospheric refraction)

translation...???

Actually, depending on local terrain, and the range of the KC transmitters, you MIGHT be able to get reliable reception with a different antenna and/or much higher antenna, I really can't guess from here.[/QUOTE]

I don't think I can get the antenna much higher without it swaying in the wind. I have a 2 story home with attic of 8 feet ceiling and the antenna is well above the roof line so its up there 40 or so feet. I'm sitting on top of a hill within the town of Ft. Scott, but within a neighboorhood with many old, tall trees.
Is it normal to be able to get a good signal, only to lose it temporarily due to this long distance. You know, I really want those KC stations (better news crew and KU basketball games not on ESPN or the larger networks). I could probably "settle" for the Pittsburg - Joplin locals, but would miss out on about 7 games. Also, for some reason, I have yet to get the Fox HD in Pittsburg...all I'm getting is the SD Fox in Pittsburg. Thanks and keep the suggestions coming in! Really do appreciate it.
Chip

Chip,

head to TVFool.com, use the start maps option, then enter your address. Use the map to be sure the receive location is right on your house (you can drag it to the right place as needed), fix the antenna height to the right value, then make a radar plot. You can share the results with us using the link given at the bottom of the page. If TVFool shows the path to KC as tropo, then you'll have to live with sketchy reception.

From Wikipedia:

tropospheric scattering: At VHF and higher frequencies, small variation (turbulence) in the density of the atmosphere at a height of around 6 miles (10 km) can scatter some of the normally line-of-sight beam of radio frequency energy back toward the ground, allowing over-the-horizon communication between stations as far as 500 miles (800 km) apart.