I'm beginning to see arguments against the 2009 Transition schedule based upon the complications of allowing NTSC broadcast to continue by low power stations. I assume the majority of these are translators but there are also many that broadcast their own programing. I have lots of questions about them.

a) What status do these stations have in the overall channel allocation scheme?

Secondary

Are they granted any protection from interference from full power stations?

No.

b) What interference can they legally cause to full power stations.

None within protected contours.

c) Can their licenses be revoked if they cause a problem with the transition schedule?

Ultimately yes, but there is a process that they would go through before they would get to this stage.

d) Can they still operate on a noninterference basis in the freed from TV 700 -800 MHz spectrum?

For the time being. My guess is within 18 months they will be gone completely.

e) Does the FCC currently have the authority to order them to change to digital?

Yes and the FCC is in the process now of finalizing what LPTV's need to do to transition to digital. The FCC has already begun issuing CP's for LPTV's and translators now. Some are flash cut and some are second channels. Some have already made the transition.

Whenever there's a law/rule/regulation with exceptions there is a loophole opened for legal challenge.

--- CHAS

This is true, but no one, the FCC nor Congress is even calling for a change in the Feb 17 date. This has been reiterated within the last two weeks by those in Congress and in the FCC as late as yesterday. The transition is happening and it is happening on schedule.

A couple of notes:

1) The Third Periodic Review has now been published in the Federal Register.

2) The CDBS Search Page now lets you search for Form 387, the form stations must file to detail their path toward single-channel, DT-only operation by 2-17-09. Obviously, though, nobody has filed one of those yet -- they're not due until 2-18-08.

Source: www.fcc.gov

The 387's must be filed by Feb 19, 2008 and stations still needing to move to post transition channels have until March 17 to file for expedited CP's. You can say the transition has officially begun.

I remember reading this somewhere, but I honestly don't remember.


http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=12922185#post12922185

By the way, here are a couple of interesting recent posts I recently came across elsewhere which relate to some earlier discussion on this thread :

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=983815

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=12949755#post12949755

That is exactly the sort of thing which I was reffering to regarding what ALL OTA DTV receivers need to be able to do, and why I also think it would be a good idea if there were required receiver performance standards regarding that sort of thing ....

The 387's must be filed by Feb 19, 2008 and stations still needing to move to post transition channels have until March 17 to file for expedited CP's. You can say the transition has officially begun.


"Expedited" is right, and lets hope FCC can quickly process those CP apps when they start coming in as well !

It's just a little difficult for me to imagine just how quickly a lot of stuff needs to be done concerning stations that need new CP's for moving to a new Post transisition channel ....

I suppose if the facilities are based pretty closely on the post-transistion table of allotments the processing by FCC of the apps will hopefully go fairly quickly, and in cases when stations can use existing transmit antenna(such as in some cases when moving the DT to their analog channel) it could go pretty quickly as well --

.. It's just that generally from what I've seen looking at FCC database involving stations in my area (including their "orignal" DTV CP's for during the transistion) it often can take FCC quite a while to process the applications and grant a CP, and on average, usually at least a year for the station to have the time to build it, sometimes much longer ...

Update: Somehow, I'm guessing some stations might be filing their 387's and CP apps real soon, and that the "engineering consutants" out there who work on these types of things have been very busy the past month or so ....

For instance, One of my local PBS's (ThinkTV / Greater Dayton Public TV) filed some comments regarding either 3rd DTV review proceeding or involving the DTV table of allotments (I.e. in the "DTV proceeding" 87-268), I can't recall which at the moment --- In there they had their itenerary for their "expected timetable" of what all they needed to do to move to their post-transistion channel(their current analog Ch#, their DTV is out of core), and, for instance they said their timeline to "get it all done" was contigent on "expecting" to be able to file for the CP in something like Sept 2007 ......

I can't imagine how any station that intends to broadcast after Feb 2009 can have procrastinated to this point without having a construction permit. Construction must progress without complications, especially if they need tower work, for them to make the deadline. I guess they just didn't take the DTV mandate seriously.

--- CHAS

I'm beginning to see arguments against the 2009 Transition schedule based upon the complications of allowing NTSC broadcast to continue by low power stations.
--- CHAS

Here in the San Francisco/San Jose-Montery-Sacramento DMAs, all of the low power analog stations except one have CP's for low power digital stations. There are also several new low power digitals coming on line that don't presently have analog facilities. I count 14 low power digital CP's for this area already.

Most of these stations will have to wait for full power stations to go off the air or change channel, since the new LP's are slated to go on channels where stations now exist. For example, KFTL-CA, now analog on 28, has a CP for 24. KGO-DT is now on 24, but will be moving to their analog channel 7. KAXT-CA, now analog on 22, has a CP for 42 which has KTNC analog on it now.

As many yuo of have noted, it's going to be very interesting to watch all the changes take place over the next 13 months as stations move around and the analog stations disappear.

Larry
SF

I can't imagine how any station that intends to broadcast after Feb 2009 can have procrastinated to this point without having a construction permit. Construction must progress without complications, especially if they need tower work, for them to make the deadline. I guess they just didn't take the DTV mandate seriously.

--- CHAS

If you read the 3rd DTV Review, this expedited CP window is for stations changing channels post transition. Stations that are operating on their post transition channels should be licensed by now and not needing additional CP work. Those stations not up to full power but operating on their post transition channels have until either the end of the CP or August to be at full power and file for a License to Cover. Any station post August should only be stations changing channels post transition.

Up to this time, stations needing to change channels post transition have not been able to file for those CPs since the FCC had not finalized the DTV Table of Assignments. My station has been wanting to file since we are going back to our analog channel but have been prevented by the FCC until now.

In the comment period for the 3rd DTV Review, stations brought up the very point that waiting much longer to get CPs issued and get them built will be the real road block to making the February 17, 2009 date. The Commission still took their time and addressed that concern in the 3rd DTV Review as, here it is, get it done. No excuses.

I would suggest before you start blaming stations for laziness, you might want to read the actual rules and see why things are as they are.

Good morning, all!

KVPT, WSBS, and a number of the CBS-owned stations filed Form 387 yesterday.

Fully licensed digital, analog remaining operational til transition date: KDKA, KYW, WCCO, KMAX, KBCW, KTXA, WBFS, WBZ, WFOR, WGNT, WPSG, and WUPA, plus WSBS and KVPT.

Nothing else was filed yesterday. I'll try to keep posting these in this thread as the filing goes on.

- Trip

Here in the San Francisco/San Jose-Montery-Sacramento DMAs, all of the low power analog stations except one have CP's for low power digital stations. There are also several new low power digitals coming on line that don't presently have analog facilities. I count 14 low power digital CP's for this area already.

Is this info from the CDBS Database? I've been using the FCC TV Query database, but it doesn't seem to be getting updated often enough. e.g., I'm not finding most of the CP's for the LP stations.

Good morning, all!

KVPT, WSBS, and a number of the CBS-owned stations filed Form 387 yesterday.

Fully licensed digital, analog remaining operational til transition date: KDKA, KYW, WCCO, KMAX, KBCW, KTXA, WBFS, WBZ, WFOR, WGNT, WPSG, and WUPA, plus WSBS and KVPT.

Nothing else was filed yesterday. I'll try to keep posting these in this thread as the filing goes on.

- TripI noticed that, too. Fourteen stations. Not bad for day one.

Of course, these early filings are the "easy" cases. They're already broadcasting DT where they need to be at the power they're authorized to use. All they need to do is shut the analog transmitter "off" when the time comes. The channel-changing stations are likely to need more time to plot their course and fill these out.

Is this info from the CDBS Database? I've been using the FCC TV Query database, but it doesn't seem to be getting updated often enough. e.g., I'm not finding most of the CP's for the LP stations.

I can't remember where I found the new LP, CA and translators listed. I just went searching to see if I could find my source and I came up blank. When I do find it, I'll let you know.

Larry
SF

A bit off-topic, but nonetheless interesting...

UNC has had an application in to put a channel 27 in Canton NC since 1996, and the commission approved it on Thursday.

http://fjallfoss.fcc.gov/edocs_public/attachmatch/DA-08-265A1.pdf

So what does UNC do? Do they file for a new digital-only CP instead of the analog one they have now?

- Trip

I wouldn't waste time / money on an analog - when it will be shutdown in febuary anyway.

Good Monday morning!

A new batch of stations has filed Form 387, here's the latest:

Fully licensed digital, analog remaining operational til transition date: WBPH, WNAB, KFOX, WJAC, WSOC, WAXN, WHIO, KUEW, KUES, KUEN, KUED, WRTV, WSB, KTXT, WGCL, KPHO, KSMO, WFSB, KVVU, KTGM*, WLVT**

Presently operating digital only: WMAK

Will reduce analog power prior to transition: WSBE***

* KTGM has apparently had its DTV construction permit expire, and is waiting for the FCC to (maybe) reinstate it. See: http://fjallfoss.fcc.gov/cgi-bin/ws.exe/prod/cdbs/forms/prod/cdbsmenu.hts?context=25&appn=101231446&formid=387&fac_num=29232

** See affiggatt's post below. Also, see: http://fjallfoss.fcc.gov/cgi-bin/ws.exe/prod/cdbs/forms/prod/cdbsmenu.hts?context=25&appn=101231117&formid=387&fac_num=36989

*** WSBE has been operating at 50% of full analog power since 2004 due to equipment problems. It is using a very old transmitter that, from the STA filings, is falling apart, and that RIPTA is trying to keep running until the transition time.

I'll have another set tomorrow!

- Trip

** WLVT is going digital on its current analog channel (39) but will terminate its digital service on channel 62 prior to the deadline, instead of analog channel 39, and replacing the channel 62 equipment. It intends to have all the work done to be completed after January 18, 2009 apparently, which would put it in the 30-day window the FCC has left open for the shutoff. The station would begin operating its digital as soon as it's completed.
It is going to get very complicated trying to keep track of what all these stations will be doing! Someone should maintain a compact list of the stations that will be shutting down their analog and/or current digital channel early, say before Feb. 1 or 10, 2009, so the list is not cluttered with stations shutting down several days early for equipment work.

WLVT submission is a complicated one. I had not really thought about stations that would go dark for their current digital signal for maybe several weeks to move the digital channel to their analog or move to another digital channel. That could confuse some viewers with their new converter boxes. But according to the WLVT timeline PDF attachment, they will be asking to shut down the analog on January 5, 2009 in a future filing. The text: "Due to our commitment to provide programming to area schools we will schedule the termination of our current out of core digital service for the Christmas school holidays; December 22, 2008 to January 5 2009. We will schedule the antenna change out and transmitter rebuild for this time period. This will cause the least possible amount of service interruption. WLVT will allow all of the notification procedures as outlined in FCC 07-228. On January 5, 2009 we will terminate analog service and begin digital service on our post transition channel (footnote 1). The early termination of analog service on Channel 39 is necessary so that digital service can commence on channel 39 in time to provide programming to the community." No Xmas holidays for the WLVT tech staff and installation engineers for 2008.

WLVT submission is a complicated one. I had not really thought about stations that would go dark for their current digital signal for maybe several weeks to move the digital channel to their analog or move to another digital channel. That could confuse some viewers with their new converter boxes. But according to the WLVT timeline PDF attachment, they will be asking to shut down the analog on January 5, 2009 in a future filing. The text: "Due to our commitment to provide programming to area schools we will schedule the termination of our current out of core digital service for the Christmas school holidays; December 22, 2008 to January 5 2009. We will schedule the antenna change out and transmitter rebuild for this time period. This will cause the least possible amount of service interruption. WLVT will allow all of the notification procedures as outlined in FCC 07-228. On January 5, 2009 we will terminate analog service and begin digital service on our post transition channel (footnote 1). The early termination of analog service on Channel 39 is necessary so that digital service can commence on channel 39 in time to provide programming to the community." No Xmas holidays for the WLVT tech staff and installation engineers for 2008.

Wow! Glad you were able to parse that better than I could. Everyone, go with that explanation and not mine, I was half-asleep and not as capable of reading when I tried to read it. :P

And I'm planning on coming up with a compact list. Hopefully at some point this week, or this weekend, I'll come up with something. I can't make any promises, since I have a bunch of homework almost constantly, but we'll see.

- Trip

Good morning!

More filings yesterday, and one other note.

http://www.rabbitears.info/dtr.php?

That will be kept up to date with all the filings, with links to interesting things being a priority. I'm aware of lots of inaccuracies and unfinished stuff, but I'm a college kid who took a number of hours out today to throw something together.

So, more stations that are ready to go:
KEET, WPBT, WEAO, WAND, KTVC, KEYU, KYVE, KLAS, WNEM, WSMV, WFLI, KCTV

Two stations are of interest.

KDEV wants to silence their analog signal in Cheyenne as soon as possible.
http://fjallfoss.fcc.gov/cgi-bin/ws.exe/prod/cdbs/forms/prod/prefill_and_display.pl?Application_id=1231923&Service=TV&Form_id=387&Facility_id=18287

KLRN in San Antonio will silence their analog a few days early, but will do the final switchover as late as possible it seems (literally, 12:00:01 on Feb 18).
http://fjallfoss.fcc.gov/cgi-bin/ws.exe/prod/cdbs/forms/prod/prefill_and_display.pl?Application_id=1231672&Service=TV&Form_id=387&Facility_id=749

And that's all for today, we'll see what interesting things show up tomorrow!

- Trip

Okay, there are 17 new filings, but I'm currently trying to stumble my way through some Physics homework due in the morning, so expect my update sometime during the day tomorrow.

Preview: WLNY's plans have been announced.

- Trip

Good morning, once again!

My day yesterday was terrible, thus my lateness in getting this info organized.

First of all, my page has again been updated with the latest data. If I get the time, I want to work on it more this weekend, and once again I apologize for how it looks and the lack of updates to the rest of the site. (More info on this on the front page)

http://www.rabbitears.info/dtr.php

Anyway, on to the updates themselves.

All ready to go, operating til the last minute:
WTCI, WTVP, KAWB, WNYE, KAIL, KAMU, WFYI, WCSC, KTRV*, KWBF**, WLNY***

Cutting analog power before transition:
KAWE
http://fjallfoss.fcc.gov/cgi-bin/ws.exe/prod/cdbs/forms/prod/prefill_and_display.pl?Application_id=1230855&Service=TV&Form_id=387&Facility_id=49578

Will flash-cut at some point:
KPBI, KKYK

Will build out new facilities and switch over at some point:
KTUW, KCBU

*KTRV applied to return to channel 12, but has now, instead requested to stay on 13. If granted, they will simply turn off 12 at the end of the transition.
http://fjallfoss.fcc.gov/cgi-bin/ws.exe/prod/cdbs/forms/prod/prefill_and_display.pl?Application_id=1231992&Service=TV&Form_id=387&Facility_id=28230

**KWBF is operating its digital on an STA while waiting for a new tower approval or something. It plans to be built out in time for the transition.
http://fjallfoss.fcc.gov/cgi-bin/ws.exe/prod/cdbs/forms/prod/prefill_and_display.pl?Application_id=1231957&Service=TV&Form_id=387&Facility_id=37005

***WLNY is currently digital-only. It will revert to its low-power STA in Sept-Oct, and build out digital 47 at the top of the tower where full-power 57 is now. It plans to operate on channel 57 until the transition or until WNJU signs off, whichever comes first.
http://fjallfoss.fcc.gov/cgi-bin/ws.exe/prod/cdbs/forms/prod/prefill_and_display.pl?Application_id=1231368&Service=DT&Form_id=387&Facility_id=73206

Until tomorrow!

- Trip

Trip,

Take a look at DMA 167 on your web site.

Trip,

Take a look at DMA 167 on your web site.

Haha, very nice catch, thanks!

For those seeing it updated, I had put "Minnesota" instead of "Montana."

EDIT: Site update, I've added directional patterns. Click "DA" and it will take you to the directional pattern that is or will be in use, if available.

- Trip

Good morning!

I'm trying to do stuff to my page and balance it out with college work, so a lot of things are half-done and it's a big mess. I should hope to clear it up soon.

Okay, right now I'm coming up with a new way to do station statuses, because the STAT column was just useless. The "default" state, as it were, will be stations with analogs and digitals that plan to leave their analogs on until the transition date, and merely sign off the analog on that day. Anything else will have its status written briefly off to the side.

I'm regretting my directional pattern thing (it's a pain to keep up with). I might rework that; remove it from stations on final facilities already.

Anyway, on to the stations themselves.

Analogs on til the end:
WBNA, WNED, WWJ*, KOVR**, KSPS, KSHV, WVLA, KFXK, KVIE***, WABG, KFXA, WHNS****

Flash-cutting:
KQUP, KEGS*****, KBTZ, KLMN, KMMF, KUTH, WMQF

These stations are owned by Equity, and plan to flash-cut on or before February 17, 2009.

Terminating analog early:
WMFD needs to top-mount a new channel 12 antenna, and in the same place as the current analog 68 antenna. In the next month or so, the station plans to silence analog 68 and build out channel 12 at the highest point on the tower.
http://fjallfoss.fcc.gov/cgi-bin/ws.exe/prod/cdbs/forms/prod/prefill_and_display.pl?Application_id=1231484&Service=TV&Form_id=387&Facility_id=41893

*WWJ will be bumping their power from 200 kW to 345 kW.
http://fjallfoss.fcc.gov/cgi-bin/ws.exe/prod/cdbs/forms/prod/prefill_and_display.pl?Application_id=1232490&Service=TV&Form_id=387&Facility_id=72123

**KOVR has different (higher-powered) facilities specified in the table, but will not build out the facilities.
http://fjallfoss.fcc.gov/cgi-bin/ws.exe/prod/cdbs/forms/prod/prefill_and_display.pl?Application_id=1232502&Service=TV&Form_id=387&Facility_id=56550

***KVIE will be moving to channel 9. I'm not even trying to parse the documentation.
http://fjallfoss.fcc.gov/cgi-bin/ws.exe/prod/cdbs/forms/prod/prefill_and_display.pl?Application_id=1230996&Service=TV&Form_id=387&Facility_id=35855

**** WHNS... they plan to flash-cut 21 on Feb 18, 2009 but I really don't understand what they're saying.
http://fjallfoss.fcc.gov/cgi-bin/ws.exe/prod/cdbs/forms/prod/prefill_and_display.pl?Application_id=1232581&Service=TV&Form_id=387&Facility_id=72300

***** KEGS will flash cut from channel 7 analog to channel 50 digital.

Tomorrow is the last update of the week, and hopefully I'll find some time to do what I want to with this list.

- Trip

Thanks for the daily updates, Trip! And I love the links for the special situations. I'll be able to keep my local post-transition list for the SF Bay Area up to date thanks to those... such as the KOVR announced change in ERP and HAAT.

Larry
SF

**** WHNS... they plan to flash-cut 21 on Feb 18, 2009 but I really don't understand what they're saying.
http://fjallfoss.fcc.gov/cgi-bin/ws.exe/prod/cdbs/forms/prod/prefill_and_display.pl?Application_id=1232581&Service=TV&Form_id=387&Facility_id=72300


WHNS has two identical transmitters, one analog on 21 and one digital on channel 57. What they had to file for the post transition channel 21 pattern isn't what their analog antenna is and with the FCC loosening protection patterns, they want to change their post pattern to what the current analog pattern is. They already have the digital mast filter for channel 21. They are not operating at full power on channel 57 because of an interference issue with an analog channel 57 in Columbia, SC. They will buy the rest of the conversion equipment and get it installed in one part of the channel 57 transmitter that isn't being used due to the interference problem making a channel 21 analog transmitter, digital channel 21 transmitter and a digital channel 57 transmitter. This will allow them to stay full power on 21 till the end, and "flash cut" channel 21 to full power digital on Feb 18.

It sounds like a pretty normal transition plan to me.

Thanks for the daily updates, Trip! And I love the links for the special situations. I'll be able to keep my local post-transition list for the SF Bay Area up to date thanks to those... such as the KOVR announced change in ERP and HAAT.

Larry
SF

Actually, the posting is that they are planning not to change ERP and HAAT. The table of allocations specifies 1000 kW and an extra 3 meters of height, but KOVR will stick with their current facilities.

WHNS has two identical transmitters, one analog on 21 and one digital on channel 57. What they had to file for the post transition channel 21 pattern isn't what their analog antenna is and with the FCC loosening protection patterns, they want to change their post pattern to what the current analog pattern is. They already have the digital mast filter for channel 21. They are not operating at full power on channel 57 because of an interference issue with an analog channel 57 in Columbia, SC. They will buy the rest of the conversion equipment and get it installed in one part of the channel 57 transmitter that isn't being used due to the interference problem making a channel 21 analog transmitter, digital channel 21 transmitter and a digital channel 57 transmitter. This will allow them to stay full power on 21 till the end, and "flash cut" channel 21 to full power digital on Feb 18.

It sounds like a pretty normal transition plan to me.

Okay, thanks for clearing that up. I'm sure I'd have figured it out if I wasn't so tired last night; when I finally get my mind out of this fog it's in this morning, I'll be reading through some of these again.

- Trip

***KVIE will be moving to channel 9. I'm not even trying to parse the documentation.
This is one of the more complicated transitions. NTSC = 6, Final DTV = 9, current DTV = 53 (out of core). They need to buy and install a new antenna, new transmitter, tower upgrades in October 2008, finish construction & installation by January 30, 2009, testing in Feb 1 to 17 window, big switchover on Feb 17. But channel 9 is used by 2 analog stations in their coverage area: quote "In order to test the new channel 9 facility, KVIE will need to coordinate any planned test activities with KQED analog channel 9, San Francisco, CA, and KIXE analog channel 9, Redding CA." So they will need the other stations to go dark early or shut down temporarily when KVIE is testing DTV 9, or leave them on & live with the interference.

However, their schedule has NTSC 6 staying on the air to Feb 17, 09; no mention of shutting down their DTV 53 signal early either. So from the viewpoint of the public, there will a switchover to VHF 9 on Feb 17 and that is it. Although people might get the station on 2 digital channels at the same during testing which could be mildly interesting if they are both sending out the same PSIP data.

What is important for us to summarize for OTA viewers is which stations will be shutting down or reducing power for analog and/or shutting down or reducing power for the current digital channel for an extended period of time. Or which stations will complete the switchover ahead of mid-February, 2009.

Here's an additional update that is not reflected on the spread sheet or any of the posts here (I may have missed it, though).

Tribune owned WGNO (ABC) and WNOL (CW) in New Orleans have completed their post-Katrina repairs and have been filing modifications to their construction permits this week.

As they are sharing an antenna with WDSU (NBC, owned by Hearst), WDSU has also had to file modification requests as a result.

It also means that WGNO-DT and WNOL-DT will be located at the WDSU tower site, coordinates: 29° 56' 59.00" N Latitude 89° 57' 28.00" W Longitude. This is the WDSU tower and not the old WGNO / WNOL tower as shown in the spreadsheet. (That site was destroyed by Katrina and they are abandoning it.)

See the following:

http://fjallfoss.fcc.gov/cgi-bin/ws.exe/prod/cdbs/forms/prod/cdbsmenu.hts?context=25&appn=101231589&formid=301&fac_num=54280

http://fjallfoss.fcc.gov/cgi-bin/ws.exe/prod/cdbs/forms/prod/cdbsmenu.hts?context=25&appn=101229878&formid=911&fac_num=71357

Highlights of the post-Katrina New Orleans TV flutter is this:


WNOL has asked to commence transmitting on their post-transition frequency, 15, immediately. (First link above.) Test signals are up on that frequency today. (The first time that frequency has been active in this DMA since Katrina.)
Since WGNO's pre-transition frequency is 15, they are expected to extend their currently in-effect STA to remain silent until Feb. 17, 2009. Until then, they will continue to provide their HD programming via a lease-arrangement with WPXL-DT (channel 50) as they have been doing since Katrina. (But this lease arrangement has nothing to do with FCC licensing, they're simply putting ABC programming on the ION affiliate.)
WGNO will do a hard-changeover from analog to digital on channel 26 on or before Feb. 17, 2009.
WGNO and WNOL will continue to renew their STA to use their temporary post-Katrina analog transmitters (at the WPXL transmitter site) until they "pull the plug" on them on (or before) Feb. 17, 2009.
WGNO-DT's channel 26 transmitter is installed at the WDSU site (lat/lon coordinates, above) but will remain silent until channel 26-analog goes dark.
WDSU's antenna height, coverage, and power specs have been tweaked as a result of all of the above. These tweaks are not yet reflected in the spreadsheet. (Second link above.)


This year is even more exciting in New Orleans, as the analog to digital transition is happening simultaneously as the TV stations unwind their post-Katrina jury-rigging and bring their post-Katrina / post-transition equipment on line! :)

Here's an additional update that is not reflected on the spread sheet or any of the posts here (I may have missed it, though).

Tribune owned WGNO (ABC) and WNOL (CW) in New Orleans have completed their post-Katrina repairs and have been filing modifications to their construction permits this week.

As they are sharing an antenna with WDSU (NBC, owned by Hearst), WDSU has also had to file modification requests as a result.

It also means that WGNO-DT and WNOL-DT will be located at the WDSU tower site, coordinates: 29° 56' 59.00" N Latitude 89° 57' 28.00" W Longitude. This is the WDSU tower and not the old WGNO / WNOL tower as shown in the spreadsheet. (That site was destroyed by Katrina and they are abandoning it.)

See the following:

http://fjallfoss.fcc.gov/cgi-bin/ws.exe/prod/cdbs/forms/prod/cdbsmenu.hts?context=25&appn=101231589&formid=301&fac_num=54280

http://fjallfoss.fcc.gov/cgi-bin/ws.exe/prod/cdbs/forms/prod/cdbsmenu.hts?context=25&appn=101229878&formid=911&fac_num=71357

Highlights of the post-Katrina New Orleans TV flutter is this:

[LIST]
WNOL has asked to commence transmitting on their post-transition frequency, 15, immediately. (First link above.) Test signals are up on that frequency today. (The first time that frequency has been active in this DMA since Katrina.)

This year is even more exciting in New Orleans, as the analog to digital transition is happening simultaneously as the TV stations unwind their post-Katrina jury-rigging and bring their post-Katrina / post-transition equipment on line! :)

I actually saw the WNOL application but I'm only posting information filed in Form 387, so it'll end up on my list when WNOL/WGNO file that form.

I didn't know WGNO was serving their programming on WPXL-DT... does that remap to 26-1?

- Trip

I didn't know WGNO was serving their programming on WPXL-DT... does that remap to 26-1?

- Trip

Yes.

WPXL-DT (channel 50) is carrying 49-1, 26-1, and 38-1.

26-1 is in 720p, 49-1 and 38-1 are in 480i. WNOL has been stuck with 480i since Katrina.

From what I've been told, within a few days, 38-1 will go to channel 15 at the new WDSU site. This will improve the bandwidth on channel 50, where 26-1 will remain until analog-26 goes dark and digital-26 takes over.

I have also been told that WNOL is fully ready to provide the CW shows 1080i as soon as 38-1 (channel 15) is done testing. In addition, they have a Pathfire HD all ready to provide some of their syndicated programming in HD. :)


EDIT:

Here's a cool slideshow:

http://www.wdsu.com/slideshow/station/15119474/detail.html

Check out the third to the last frame. (It's the second to the last frame that actually has a picture in it.)

It shows 4 shiny new Transmitters.

The first three are post-transition WGNO-DT (channel 26), post-transition-and-accelerated-current WNOL-DT (channel 15), and pre-and-post-transition WDSU-DT (channel 43).

Note that these closest three transmitters in the row are feeding into a 3-input manifold combiner hanging from the ceiling.

The fourth (furthest) transmitter, who's coax feeds straight out of the building and not into the combiner, is WDSU analog, channel 6, (which will be e-bay fodder for spare parts after Feb. 17, 2009). ;)

This building and tower, replacing WDSU, WNOL, and WGNO's facilities that were destroyed by Katrina, was completed on January 28. This week, the channel 15 and channel 43 transmitters have been intermittently live with test signals. :)

WDSU-DT and WNOL-DT will be back "home" on their own equipment and assigned frequencies within a few days! And, WDSU-analog will be back at normal power. :)

Good Friday morning.

I am so glad this week is ending. I've been losing sleep all week, and finally will be able to make some of it up. Today was stressful, tomorrow will be long, but thankfully there's no homework due.

As far as the page goes, I've updated it but it's not done. That is, I've put in the stations noted below, but haven't put in their facilities yet. I'll do that some time during the day today.

On to the stations:

Analog til 2/17/9, just switching off the analog at the end:
KOCE, WGVK, WGVU, WFTV, WMBC, WICZ, WOUB, WOUC, WZVN, WLPB, KLPB, KLTL, KLPA.

Flash-cut 2/17/9:
KUOK, WBIF, KWWF, KWBM, WNYI*

Will operate transitional facilities until 2/17/9:
WNGS**

Early termination of analog:
KJLA has already applied to do so and was denied. The station has now asked to surrender its analog license once more.
http://fjallfoss.fcc.gov/cgi-bin/ws.exe/prod/cdbs/forms/prod/prefill_and_display.pl?Application_id=1232842&Service=TV&Form_id=387&Facility_id=14000

*WNYI will flash cut from analog 52 to flea-power digital 20.

**WNGS will be moving from TV-67/DT-47 to DT-07, replacing WKBW's analog signal.

Nothing too interesting here.

- Trip

Actually, the posting is that they are planning not to change ERP and HAAT. The table of allocations specifies 1000 kW and an extra 3 meters of height, but KOVR will stick with their current facilities.
- Trip
I had the specified 1000 kW and 1949' HAAT shown in my list, so I've changed it to 760 kW and 1939'. (I convert all of the meter indications to feet. For old guys like me, feet make more sense than meters. LOL )

Larry
SF

^ I "know" x 3.28084 like I "know" 2 follows 1 ;)

I suppose it's easy enough to get a good feel of what 1 meter or 1 Km is, but I guess I just haven't quite fully "learned" it yet ....

Haha, I'm with you guys; I've converted all the meters to feet on my list. I have a really hard time visualizing metric units at all.

My list should now be fully up to date, with HAAT/ERP numbers and directional patterns now included.

- Trip

The best Imperial/Metric converter I have seen is Convert. It is free and covers everything you would ever need. You can download it at http://joshmadison.com/software/convert/

I have used it several times when submitting things to the FCC so it does work.

WPXL-DT (channel 50) is carrying 49-1, 26-1, and 38-1.

This is the first time I've read of a single physical channel carrying more than one "major" virtual channel, let alone three of them. Are there any other examples?

There is one in Bakersfield. KBAK analog channel 29 CBS and KBFX-CA analog channel 58 FOX are both owned by Fisher Communications. KBFX-CA, being a low power station, was not given a digital companion channel. KBAK-DT broadcasts on physical channel 33. It's first subchannel carries CBS in HD and maps to virtual channel 29.1 . It's second subchannel carries FOX in SD and maps to virtual channel 58.2 . FOX is available in HD on cable via a direct studio to headend connection. Fisher has applied for a class A license for physical channel 22 and broadcast FOX in HD on it. They would like to get it on the air before 2-18-09 and simulcast for awhile, but if not then they will flash cut to digital. No word if physical channel 22 will map to 58.1 or 58.2 or whatever, or what they might carry on a subchannel. They might carry their "Kern Weather Network", currently available only on cable, on a subchannel.

This is the first time I've read of a single physical channel carrying more than one "major" virtual channel, let alone three of them. Are there any other examples?

We have several examples in the SF Bay Area:

KFSF-Telefutura is on 66.1 and KDTV-Univision is on 66.2. KDTV is also on 14.1, but it doesn't carry KFSF with it.

Down in Monterey KSMS-Univison is on 31.1 and KDJT-Telefutura is on 31.2.

KTEH-PBS for San Jose has HD on 50.1, KTEH analog on 50.2 and KQED (SF) analog on 50.3.

KQET in Watsonville has HD on 25.1, Life-Encore on 25.2, PBS World on 25.3, V-me on 25.4 and KTEH analog on 25.5.

KCSM-PBS has PBS on 43.1, MHzWorldview on 43.2 and a video bulletin board with traffic and community announcements along with KCSM-FM, their Jazz station, on 43.3.

KION in Monterey has CBS on 32.1 and CW on 32.2.

We also have several other sub-channels active on our stations. KTVU-FOX has LATV music, KICU has KBS World, KBWB has Azteca TV, , and the ABC stations all have Accu-Wx and NBC have Wx-Plus on their sub-channels.

Before KNTV 11 in San Jose, our NBC O&O, built a new transmitter site that was more centrally located on Mt. San Bruno, their transmitters were 55 miles south of San Francisco. SF and the North Bay Marin and Sonoma areas couldn't get it very well, so they had KNTV on 48.2 with KSTS Telemundo is on 48.1. They removed KNTV from the Telemundo channel when they put in their new transmitter.

What's it like in other cities?

Larry
SF

This is the first time I've read of a single physical channel carrying more than one "major" virtual channel, let alone three of them. Are there any other examples?

Yep, I'm living with one (I have a tuner that doesn't like it, an Insignia NS-7HTV). In Charlottesville here, WCAV has no digital, and the other networks are on LP stations, so just one managed to get a digital companion, and they do SD like so:

16-1 (40.7) ABC16 (WVAW-LP)
19-1 (40.5) CBS19 (WCAV)
19-2 (40.6) CBS19 Now
27-1 (40.3) Fox 27 (WAHU-CA)
27-2 (40.4) My C'Ville TV

All on physical channel 40, WAHU-LD.

And Larry, I think he was referring to major channel numbers rather than subchannels. =Þ

- Trip

Complete list of Post Katrina New Orleans temporary channel sharing:

WPXL-DT 49-1 (50.1) 480i
WGNO-DT 26-1 (50.2) 720p
WNOL-DT 38-1 (50.3) 480i

WSHO-DT 20-1 (21.1) 480i
WDSU-DT 6-1 (21.2) 1080i

All of the above channels had their own digital transmitters before Katrina.

WDSU had 6 feet of water in their transmitter racks.

WGNO/WNOL had 10 feet of water in their transmitter racks. (They had a wicked cool 4 input combiner manifold for their two analog and two digital UHF transmitters, too! :) )

As I posted above, within a few days, WNOL-DT will go to their post-transition frequency of channel 15. Since channel 15 was WGNO's pre-transition frequency, WGNO will leave their digital content on 50.2 until the transition date and then hard-changeover channel 26 from analog to digital.

WDSU-DT 6-1 will be on 43.1 (their pre and post transition assigned frequency) within days.

WDSU's parent company (Hearst) owns the post-Katrina transmitter site and WGNO/WNOL (Tribune) are leasing transmitter and tower space. The tower contains a UHF emitter that will carry WDSU-DT, WNOL-DT, and WGNO-DT, with WGNO-DT lighting up post-transition only, and a VHF emitter for WDSU 6 analog.

WGNO/WNOL chose to simply abandon their old transmitter site, which was hanging out in the swamp, literally, outside of protection levees. It was ludicrously vulnerable to hurricanes.

Interestingly, the FOX affiliate, WVUE (who also leases transmitter and tower space to WYES, the primary PBS affiliate) has a transmitter site similarly hanging out in the swamp but has a rugged building on stilts (similar to the new WDSU building in the slideshow above). It took on about 2 inches of water inside, according to WVUE engineers. No equipment damage. However, it's backup generator was mounted lower, and was swamped, knocking the station off the air for several weeks until power could be restored and the air conditioning in their building repaired.

And Larry, I think he was referring to major channel numbers rather than subchannels. =Þ

Yep. The sort of thing he describes is pretty common. In fact, I have an almost-matching pair:

On physical channel 14:
40-1 WMYA-DT (MyNetwork) HD
40-2 WLOS-DT (ABC) SD

On physical channel 56:
13-1 WLOS-DT (ABC) HD
13-2 WMYA-DT (MyNetwork) SD
13-3 WLOS-DT (ABC) SD

Yep. The sort of thing he describes is pretty common. In fact, I have an almost-matching pair:

On physical channel 14:
40-1 WMYA-DT (MyNetwork) HD
40-2 WLOS-DT (ABC) SD

On physical channel 56:
13-1 WLOS-DT (ABC) HD
13-2 WMYA-DT (MyNetwork) SD
13-3 WLOS-DT (ABC) SD

No surprise, either, given their respective locations (I can't imagine WMYA making it into Asheville), and especially when they were at low-power some time ago.

Not to mention that my home market, Roanoke, has something similar:

21-0 WWCW Fox "Fox 21/27"
21-1 WWCW Fox-SD "Fox 21/27"
21-2 WWCW CW-HD "CW5"
27-0 WFXR Fox "Fox 21/27"
27-1 WFXR Fox-HD "Fox 21/27"
27-2 WFXR CW-SD "CW5"

- Trip

KION in Monterey has CBS on 32.1 and CW on 32.2.


Same pair for KHSL Chico on 43.1 and 43.2.

Chuck

The best example I have is KESQ in the Palm Springs/Coachella Valley area:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/KESQ-TV

It has ABC, FOX and the CW all on one real channel (52), all with different major virtual channel numbers. 42.1/42.2 (ABC/weather), 33.2 (FOX) and 2.3 (CW).

Incidentally, the local CBS affiliate, KPSP, has no local OTA DTV broadcast and only has an LP tower and relies on cable otherwise.

I was surprised at how much of a mess it was in the Palm Springs area when I tested it out. They have a large number of analog translators and low power stations, so I will be interested to see how they handle the transition locally.

The Coachella Valley/Palm Springs area may as well be an "everyone has cable" area, but the dearth of OTA options is still a surprise for an area with about 500,000 people. It's probably because the population before 1980 was under 80,000.

The Coachella Valley/Palm Springs area may as well be an "everyone has cable" area, but the dearth of OTA options is still a surprise for an area with about 500,000 people. It's probably because the population before 1980 was under 80,000.
I'm curious if that has to do with the odd population balance prior to the last decade or so: most of the area's residents were either farm workers or wealthy, with comparatively few in the middle class. Most of the TV was piped in from LA for those with cable, and most of those who couldn't afford cable had no use for English-language programming anyway. Over the last 10 years, there has been a huge increase of middle-class population, which brings along a market for local news and TV that previously didn't exist.

Having some of the lesser networks on a subchannel isn't uncommon out here, either. Usually it's CW or My, although Quincy, IL's two commercial stations now carry Fox and ABC on subs.

Having them map to different numbers on one physical channel IS rare, but not unheard of. Channel 56 in Des Moines carries 23-1 (the CW in HD) AND My 56-1 (in SD). That is how they map.

The reason for this is that the CW affiliate on channel 23 got its license too late to get a digital companion channel, so they bought the construction permit for channel 56, built it as an all-digital channel, and devoted the lion's share of its capacity to an HD subchannel simulcast of CW 23. So basically, they own two stations, but they're the equivalent of one for now until the transition is over, when they'll each have their own post-transition channel.

Good morning, once again.

I'm up in the air about whether or not I'm going to continue with this up past midnight updating stuff. This week is going to kill me with tests and stress and whatnot, so while I hope not to fall behind with this list... well, we'll see.

The page may or may not get updated this evening. I likely will not post an update when it is updated.

Keeping analog til the bitter end:
WCVE, WCVW, WHTJ, WCEU, WFLX, WBBH, KWBU, KLRU, KGWL, WLIO, WETP, WKOP, KGWC (returning to 14 on a different tower)

Analog already gone:
WNVT, WACX, KVMD

No analog on the air, signing on as digital on different channel:
KBCJ (analog 6, digital 16), KBNY (analog 6, digital 27)

Odds and ends:

KHCV filed to keep their analog going until the end, but the analog is presently off the air due to equipment problems. They tentatively plan to repair the analog, but I'm guessing if it costs too much they may just ask the FCC to terminate it.
http://fjallfoss.fcc.gov/cgi-bin/ws.exe/prod/cdbs/forms/prod/cdbsmenu.hts?context=25&appn=101232866&formid=387&fac_num=49264

WRDQ will halve analog power to prep for a flash-cut on Feb 17.
http://fjallfoss.fcc.gov/cgi-bin/ws.exe/prod/cdbs/forms/prod/cdbsmenu.hts?context=25&appn=101232438&formid=387&fac_num=55454

WNVC will silence both its analog and digital (56/57) in September 2008 and replace both with a single channel 24 antenna. The station may not be able to sign back on until Feb 18 due to WUTB in Baltimore, but will provide its programming on WNVT-DT and via fiber to cable/satellite companies.
http://fjallfoss.fcc.gov/cgi-bin/ws.exe/prod/cdbs/forms/prod/cdbsmenu.hts?context=25&appn=101230771&formid=387&fac_num=9999

WTLW is requesting to return to channel 44 now, rather than keeping 47.
http://fjallfoss.fcc.gov/cgi-bin/ws.exe/prod/cdbs/forms/prod/cdbsmenu.hts?context=25&appn=101230773&formid=387&fac_num=1222

That's all for today, see you again tomorrow!

- Trip

WNVC will silence both its analog and digital (56/57) in September 2008 and replace both with a single channel 24 antenna. The station may not be able to sign back on until Feb 18 due to WUTB in Baltimore, but will provide its programming on WNVT-DT and via fiber to cable/satellite companies.
I was wondering what WNVC-DT MHz 56 in Fairfax, VA was going to do, but going dark for as long as 5 months is a long time. WNVC is the closest broadcast tower to me, but their side-mounted digital antenna operating at only 7.3 kW on UHF 57 has poor coverage. I can only get the station if I aim my CM 4221 right at it (and lose a lot of other stations). The post-transition coverage will be much improved with the UHF 24 antenna on top of the tower with a 50 kW signal.

What WNVC's transition plan attachment does not mention is that OTA only viewers of WNVC-DT will lose 3 unique SD sub-channels that are not carried on the sister station WNVC-DT 30. WNVC-DT and WNVT-DT are unusual stations which use their digital channels to provide 8 unique SD sub-channels of international programming. WNVT-DT has 5 sub-channels for MHz 1 to 5, WNVC-DT has 4 sub-channels for MHz 1 & MHz 6 to 8. MHz 1 is what is sent out on the WNVC analog channel. What the 2 stations carry is listed at http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/WNVC. Verizon Fios carries all the sub-channels from the 2 stations in their digital SD local set, so all the sub-channels will remain available on Fios while WNVC is off the air.

Fox owned WUTB-DT My 24 in Baltimore is still at their STA power of 530 Watts, although they are supposed to finally go full power very soon on UHF 41. My question is can WNVC 56 petition the FCC for some relief and ask that WUTB 24 in Baltimore shut down it's analog signal before Feb. 17, 2009? Assuming of course, that Fox opts to keep WUTB on the air as long as possible which I would expect a commercial network to do. When WUTB-DT is at full power on their digital channel, they will be at their post-transition assignment, so they will have their full digital coverage prior to Feb 17. Would the FCC even consider, or could they even legally do so, asking WUTB in Baltimore to shut down it's analog channel a month or two early to provide relief to WNVC so WNVC is not dark for close to 5 months? Or is this a can of worms the FCC is simply not going to open and will stay away from moderating conflicts between stations. If WNVC has to go dark for a long time, so be it?

What WNVC's transition plan attachment does not mention is that OTA only viewers of WNVC-DT will lose 3 unique SD sub-channels that are not carried on the sister station WNVC-DT 30. WNVC-DT and WNVT-DT are unusual stations which use their digital channels to provide 8 unique SD sub-channels of international programming. WNVT-DT has 5 sub-channels for MHz 1 to 5, WNVC-DT has 4 sub-channels for MHz 1 & MHz 6 to 8. MHz 1 is what is sent out on the WNVC analog channel. What the 2 stations carry is listed at http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/WNVC. Verizon Fios carries all the sub-channels from the 2 stations in their digital SD local set, so all the sub-channels will remain available on Fios while WNVC is off the air.

I wonder if they might try to jam all 8 of them in on WNVT-DT. It'll look like crap, but they might be able to get away with it temporarily.

Fox owned WUTB-DT My 24 in Baltimore is still at their STA power of 530 Watts, although they are supposed to finally go full power very soon on UHF 41. My question is can WNVC 56 petition the FCC for some relief and ask that WUTB 24 in Baltimore shut down it's analog signal before Feb. 17, 2009? Assuming of course, that Fox opts to keep WUTB on the air as long as possible which I would expect a commercial network to do. When WUTB-DT is at full power on their digital channel, they will be at their post-transition assignment, so they will have their full digital coverage prior to Feb 17. Would the FCC even consider, or could they even legally do so, asking WUTB in Baltimore to shut down it's analog channel a month or two early to provide relief to WNVC so WNVC is not dark for close to 5 months? Or is this a can of worms the FCC is simply not going to open and will stay away from moderating conflicts between stations. If WNVC has to go dark for a long time, so be it?

I doubt the FCC would force them off the air, however Fox might consider shutting it off voluntarily if other stations do it at the same time (have to see what WJZ and WBAL do). They may also consider it if the ratings are low enough that it won't hurt much to lose the OTA coverage for a few months.

- Trip

I'm up in the air about whether or not I'm going to continue with this up past midnight updating stuff. This week is going to kill me with tests and stress and whatnot, so while I hope not to fall behind with this list... well, we'll see.

The page may or may not get updated this evening. I likely will not post an update when it is updated.


No worries, good luck with the tests, and you might want to work in some downtime instead of working on the lists ... We'll still be here when you have the time ....

If folks have missed it, and want to look at the form 387's as they come in for themselves, as I think a link to this was posted somewhere back in this thread or elsewhere but it might have been some time ago -- They can go here :

http://svartifoss2.fcc.gov/prod/cdbs/pubacc/prod/cdbs_pa.htm

Chose :

"Search for Application information"

Then on page that pops up, from the "form number" drop-down box chose :

"form 387"

If desired, You can further narrow it down by filling out some of the other fields such as "status date", or to see the apps for your area by "state"/community of license/etc, so that all of them don't pop up, as soon there should be a LOT of them .....

Then click the "submit application search" button, and all the entries will pop up (if you don't narrow it down after the "get data" page telling you there are a lot of records - currently 137 and it may take some time) ...

To see the form 387+get the details, click on the corresponding "application link" next to the station's entry you'r interested in. Note that If I recall correctly, adobe acrobat reader may need to be installed on your system for this to work ...

Yes on Acrobat.

And Thanks for the link. Right now, there are 2 stations for NC, both in Charlotte, both providing analog until the bitter end (both already on final DTV assignments)

Meh, you don't need Acrobat, just any PDF reader. I tend to like the free FoxIt Reader. Much lighter and quicker.

But yes, WSOC and WAXN are done with the transition; I heard that WAXN wanted to boost their power but the FCC wouldn't let them.

- Trip

Computer Science class isn't good for much else; I went ahead and wrapped up the technical data for this morning's filings.

Now I should find something useful to do. =Þ

- Trip

Sorry to post thrice in a row, but I'm wondering if anyone would benefit from linking stations to their FCC coverage maps. They're not terribly accurate, but might help the directional arrays make more sense.

Any opinions on this?

- Trip

Sorry to post thrice in a row, but I'm wondering if anyone would benefit from linking stations to their FCC coverage maps. They're not terribly accurate, but might help the directional arrays make more sense.

Any opinions on this?
The Tvfool.com on-line maps are better. The FCC coverage maps are useful, but you could end up with dead links if the station call letters changed or there was a change in the FCC end file structure. Basic links to the FCC database and tvfool website on a web page would provide access to that info with getting too far down in links that may change.

Anyone planning to update the DTV_Analysis.xls spreadsheet with the basic transition info? The trick is how to summarize it into no more than 3-4 columns for the critical info: projected analog shutdown date, analog power reduction ahead of shutdown?, projected current DTV channel shutdown ahead of transition if applicable, projected start-up of new DTV channel if applicable, maybe a yes/no column for will station go dark for an extended period? Suggestion on how to best summarize the info?

As it stands, I my count is right, there are 124 stations so far with posted Form 387s. If the form for 1700 more stations are placed on-line in the next several weeks, this will be more than any one of us can handle, even Trip in VA. :eek:

The Tvfool.com on-line maps are better. The FCC coverage maps are useful, but you could end up with dead links if the station call letters changed or there was a change in the FCC end file structure. Basic links to the FCC database and tvfool website on a web page would provide access to that info with getting too far down in links that may change.

I agree, but they won't have post-transition facilities up for a while, and I don't want to flood the site with traffic if I can help it. (As much of a "flood" as there may be, hah!)

As it stands, I my count is right, there are 124 stations so far with posted Form 387s. If the form for 1700 more stations are placed on-line in the next several weeks, this will be more than any one of us can handle, even Trip in VA. :eek:

I may start trying to put stations that should be finished up over the weekend, to try and head off the massive rush. I'm not expecting to be able to handle it, as you suggest, since there's a chance a huge ton of them will show up all in one day, likely next Tuesday, and that day sucks for me. That said, I plan to have all the data sorted by the end of next week, so I will be able to handle it over a period of a few days.

I managed to keep up with the channel elections, this shouldn't be too bad. ;)

Then once it's all said and done, I'll try and keep the list up to date as best I can. Stations should be updating their filings periodically to describe their current status; I'll do my best to keep that updated.

- Trip

I agree, but they won't have post-transition facilities up for a while, and I don't want to flood the site with traffic if I can help it. (As much of a "flood" as there may be, hah!)
Check tvfool.com. andy.s.lee has added an option to the signal analysis tool to show the post-transition signal strengths for the full power stations (and LPs as far as they have been defined) based on the FCC data. Useful if you have a station moving from UHF to VHF and I have four stations doing so. Another example is that tvfool projects that the received signal strength for my location for WNVC-DT 56 will increase by around 20 dBm whenever they fire up their new antenna on UHF 24. Handy info. I expect he will be updating the on-line coverage maps at some point.

Check tvfool.com. andy.s.lee has added an option to the signal analysis tool to show the post-transition signal strengths for the full power stations (and LPs as far as they have been defined) based on the FCC data. Useful if you have a station moving from UHF to VHF and I have four stations doing so. Another example is that tvfool projects that the received signal strength for my location for WNVC-DT 56 will increase by around 20 dBm whenever they fire up their new antenna on UHF 24. Handy info. I expect he will be updating the on-line coverage maps at some point.

I haven't been lately, haven't had the time and won't for a while, but this is good news.

Still, I don't want to flood the site with any random traffic from my own, not that I imagine there'd be much. =Þ

- Trip

Good morning!

Today's stations were mostly routine, so I went ahead and stayed up and handled them.

Analog on the air to the bitter end:
WSFJ, WXXI, KJTV, KOTA, KDUH, KHSD, KSGW, KTOO, KOB, WRAZ*, WMFP, KDLT, KQDS, WSAH, KCNS, KPBS, WMEC, WQEC, WSEC, WHA, WOAC, WRAY, WPNE, WHWC, WTTW, WLTZ, KRIN, KBIN, KHIN, WMEA, WMEB, WMED, KUSM, KBYU, KSL, KTVA, KBFD, KLJB, WFXR, WZDX, WACY

Flash cut 02/17/09:
WSVN**, KGWR, KFNB

Status Unknown:
WGTU, WGTQ
These stations were recently sold, and while the sale is pending, the old licensee has to file the paperwork, but the new licensee will be handling all the construction, so only a placeholder document has been filed.

* WRAZ will, for a few weeks, operate on an auxiliary antenna while other stations on the tower (WRAL, WNCN, etc) are built out.

** WSVN will flash-cut their current analog facilities while a new tower is being approved for itself and WPLG.

See? Nice and simple.

Til tomorrow!

- Trip

Anyone planning to update the DTV_Analysis.xls spreadsheet with the basic transition info? The trick is how to summarize it into no more than 3-4 columns for the critical info: projected analog shutdown date, analog power reduction ahead of shutdown?, projected current DTV channel shutdown ahead of transition if applicable, projected start-up of new DTV channel if applicable, maybe a yes/no column for will station go dark for an extended period? Suggestion on how to best summarize the info?

I haven't decided what to do with it yet, but these are good suggestions.

However, it will probably be too much to handle and keep track of. It took me a few months to come up with the current result and it seems that we will be dealing with moving targets and old data on the FCC TV Query for some time to come.

Maybe it is time for me to start adding some columns with Trip's info. So far, I've been graying out the analog channels which are off the air, but I have only noted a few of those.

I'm burned out from Physics homework; no way in hell am I posting all these til the afternoon.

77 new filings, most of them are ION stations, all but 6 of them are done and keeping analog on the air til 02/17/09.

Other 6:
KLWY, KFNE, KOBG, KOBR, WHEC, KPXJ

I'll post when it's updated.

- Trip

Alright, I've updated the page. I know about the lack of facilities, we'll see what I can do with that in the near future. The worst part of my week is behind me now.

All done and staying til 02/17/09:
WNYT, KPXN, WCPX, KPEJ, KVEO, KMSS, KWSE, WGMB, WEVV, KSRE, KBME, KETK, WPPX, KADN, WNTZ, KLWY, KKPX, KJRE, KYTX, WBPX, WDPX, WPXG, KPXD, WWPX, WXPX, KPXM, KSPX, WOPX, KAZQ, KCVU, KBVU, KNME, WIPX, WRPX, WFPX, WNPX, WPXE, KPXE, KUPX, WPXP, KAME, WPXH, WPXV, KOPX, WGPX, WPXQ, WCET, KERA, WPXC, WQPX, KTPX, WLPX, WUPX, WPXK, WPXR, KPXO, KPXR, KXJB, KFQX, WPXU, WPXX, KFYR, WPXL, KXLA, KVLY, WPXA, KREX, KREY, KREG, KYNE.

Returning to analog on or before 2/17/09:
KFNE, KLWY.

Returning to analog on 2/17/09:
WHEC, KOBR.

Already digital only:
KPXJ, WTPX.

Moving to new channel 2/17/09:
KOBG.

Links to the documents are available on my page.

- Trip

Moving to new channel 2/17/09: KOBG.

76 new Form 387s posted yesterday! If the FCC posts them the day they are submitted, we should be seeing 100s per day in the next week.

Expanding on the plans for KOBG, satellite station of KOB-TV, NBC affiliate in Albuquerque, NM - http://fjallfoss.fcc.gov/prod/cdbs/forms/prod/getattachment_exh.cgi?exhibit_id=616635 - states their plan is to move the current analog 6 antenna to the side of the tower and reduce analog power to 10% of authorized level 1-2 months before transition date in order to place a new antenna for VHF 12 on top. Will have to coordinate testing of VHF 12 with KOVT-DT. Summary: reduce analog power in Dec, 2008 or Jan, 2009; digital signal to start up February 18, 2009; application for reduced STA power to be filed. KOBG does not have a digital transition channel. They are going to put up a new antenna in January in that part of the country? Good luck with staying to the schedule.

WGNO/WNOL chose to simply abandon their old transmitter site, which was hanging out in the swamp, literally, outside of protection levees. It was ludicrously vulnerable to hurricanes.

TiVoFishMan, thanks for the great info on the reconstruction projects. It is a very interesting read. I am curious to see what the results are when WNOL goes live on 15.

Looking at the swamp where WGNO and WNOL used to be, I see that WLAE and KGLA were also in the same swamp. Are they still there or are they moving as well?

I am updating my analysis spreadsheet with notes for WGNO, WNOL and WDSU. If you can keep us posted, that would be great.

Thanks again. :)

76 new Form 387s posted yesterday! If the FCC posts them the day they are submitted, we should be seeing 100s per day in the next week.

They post them the day after they're submitted. But yes, if ~240 of them have been submitted now, that means there's still like 1500 still to come down over the next 4-5 days.

I'm going to be quite busy haha.

Expanding on the plans for KOBG, satellite station of KOB-TV, NBC affiliate in Albuquerque, NM - http://fjallfoss.fcc.gov/prod/cdbs/forms/prod/getattachment_exh.cgi?exhibit_id=616635 - states their plan is to move the current analog 6 antenna to the side of the tower and reduce analog power to 10% of authorized level 1-2 months before transition date in order to place a new antenna for VHF 12 on top. Will have to coordinate testing of VHF 12 with KOVT-DT. Summary: reduce analog power in Dec, 2008 or Jan, 2009; digital signal to start up February 18, 2009; application for reduced STA power to be filed. KOBG does not have a digital transition channel. They are going to put up a new antenna in January in that part of the country? Good luck with staying to the schedule.

We'll see. That's not the only place where they're planning to do things like that.

- Trip

TiVoFishMan, thanks for the great info on the reconstruction projects. It is a very interesting read. I am curious to see what the results are when WNOL goes live on 15.

Looking at the swamp where WGNO and WNOL used to be, I see that WLAE and KGLA were also in the same swamp. Are they still there or are they moving as well?

I am updating my analysis spreadsheet with notes for WGNO, WNOL and WDSU. If you can keep us posted, that would be great.

Thanks again. :)

From what I hear, WLAE gutted their transmitter building, replaced the Sheetrock, and installed new transmitters. Done. I guess they're gamblers. :eek: I wonder how much insurance they had? In any case, this explains why they got back on the air quicker than WGNO, WNOL, or WDSU. They didn't choose to build a whole new building.

KGLA started on the air after Katrina. However, their earliest license applications pre-date Katrina. From the Google-Earth view, their transmitter building looks pretty buff, perhaps it was built much like WDSU's new building is built.

This was the case with WVUE/WYES. Their transmitter building is out in an unprotected swamp, but built up on piers like a impenetrable bunker. Again, much like the new WDSU building. Good planning.

One thing I'm going to do in the not too distant future, is spend a Saturday doing a "tower tour" where I drive past all the local TV and FM towers. I haven't been past many of them since Katrina. This will prove to my wife that her husband has gone totally off the deep end and is mired in hopeless geekdom! ;) :D

Edit:

Check out this slide show of the new WDSU/WGNO/WNOL site:

http://www.wdsu.com/slideshow/station/15119474/detail.html

Take a look at the third-to-last-frame (the second-to-last that's an actual photo).

You can see 4 spanking new transmitters in that pic. Note that the first three feed into a 3 input manifold combiner. They are: WNOL-DT (15) WGNO-DT (23, post transition, dark until changeover date) and WDSU-DT (43). The fourth transmitter in the row (note it's coax goes out of the picture without feeding into the combiner) is WDSU analog (6).

All are active, at least for part-time testing, as of today, except WGNO-DT.

Tivofishman - join the club (re: wife thinking husband is totally off his rocker on this subject) :D !

I have updated my spreadsheet post to reflect my first try at adding the transition information for each station.

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=12890633#post12890633

It's very rough so far, but I hope it's moving in the right direction.

Thanks, Trip, for your great work! I hope to try and keep up. :D

140+ filings yesterday, including interesting ones like WBBM, WTVF, and WSKY.

I haven't looked through them yet, but I think a majority of them are relatively normal.

Don't know when I'll get them all on my list, but I'll post here when I do.

- Trip

Hello once again!

144 filings yesterday, and I'm busily sifting through them. This is only part of it, as I doubt I can do 144 at one sitting.

Once again, links can be found on my website.

Analog to the end:
WINK, WDAY, WAGV, KLNE, KVRR(1), KTVQ, KVOA, KRIS, KRTV, KATC, WLEX, KPAX, KOAA, WWRS, KIRO, KTVN, KDLV(2), WIAT, KYIN, KTIN, KSIN, KIMT, KTWO(3), WTVI, KRWG, KFNR(4), KCEN, WHRO(5), WLRN(6)

Flash-cutting 02/17/09:
WDAZ, WLFB, WDIO, WIRT, WTVF, WBBM(7)

Flash-cutting before 02/17/09:
KCRG, KMVT*, WKAR**, WJCT***

Digital-only:
KNMD

Waiting on FCC action:
WSKY(a), KTCA(b), KNRR(c)

* KMVT will flash-cut no earlier than 12/01/08.

** WKAR will silence analog about two weeks before the transition.

*** WJCT's application says "in February" over and over, leading me to think the flash-cut will be before 02/17/09.

(1) KVRR will move its digital antenna to the top of its tower in Spring 2009, once weather improves.

(2) KDLV is operating on an STA, and will build out its full DT-26 facilities this summer.

(3) KTWO is going to move to a common tower which will host KGWC-14, KTWO-17, and KFNB-20.

(4) KFNR has yet to build out its digital facilities.

(5) WHRO is operating at 1/4 power to protect WBOC, but will power up on 02/17/09.

(6) WLRN is a mess. Seriously, lawsuit, damaged equipment, the works.

(7) WBBM has bought WTTW's analog equipment, and will use that equipment to operate channel 12 on 02/17/09.

(a) WSKY is operating DT-04 at present, but needs to move to DT-09.

(b) KTCA is planning to operate TV-17 and DT-16 until the end, but is having issues with the FCC regarding DT-26. Due to the current freeze, KTCA would be forced to operate with only 12 kW on DT-26 after the transition, and is waiting on the commission to act on a petition to boost that number.

(c) KNRR intends to flash-cut at some point on or before 02/17/09, but needs clarification from the FCC before ordering equipment.

More will come later, these are just the first group I did (file numbers 20080213AAA through ACL).

- Trip

144 filings yesterday, and I'm busily sifting through them. This is only part of it, as I doubt I can do 144 at one sitting.

*** WJCT's application says "in February" over and over, leading me to think the flash-cut will be before 02/17/09.
144 fillings, no sweat! Only around some 1400 more to be be filed in the next week or so. :eek:

A random look at the filings:
KCBS in LA: moving to UHF 43 taking over KCAL-DT's transmitter, but will file a petition to increase post transition power to 495 kW from the authorized 300 kW.

WJCT - some what confusing filing, but they plan to reduce analog power to 79% beginning in July 2008.

WJZ CBS 13 in Baltimore - ooh, complicated. WJZ-DT is moving from 38 to 13, WMAR ABC 2 is moving from 52 to 38, all on same huge tower in NW Baltimore. WJZ will file for STA DT operation on current 13 antenna starting on Feb. 17, 2009, while WMAR's old analog & digital antennas are removed, new antennas are put up for WJZ-DT and WMAR-DT, planned completion for WJZ-DT of April 22, 2009. I get WJZ and WMAR OTA, so I will be curious what WJZ's and WMAR's STA power will be.

WETA PBS 26 in Washington, DC - analog until the bitter end.

Here's some more:

20080213ACM-ADZ

Analog to the bitter end, then just signing it off:
KNLC, WPXI, WCVN, KTNW, all the KET stations, WSKG, KXXV, KCNC#, WETA, KPAZ, WHFT

Silencing analog early:
KWSU****

Convoluted move after 2/17/09:
WJZ
http://fjallfoss.fcc.gov/cgi-bin/ws.exe/prod/cdbs/forms/prod/cdbsmenu.hts?context=25&appn=101234236&formid=387&fac_num=25455

**** KWSU will silence its analog in January 2009 (it says 2008, I think it's a typo) and convert its analog 10 to digital. DT-17 will remain on the air during this time.

# Lookout Mountain/SCARE thing delayed digital construction.

More to still to come!

- Trip

Just a reminder, the 18th is Monday.

Yep. I'm dreading Tuesday morning.

Okay, here's some more:

20080213AEA-AFL::

To the bitter end, as they say:
WHDF, WLMB, KTEN, KRXI, KIVI, KMTF, WFTX, WXCW, WGBA(8), WSYM, KMTV(9), KSEE, KMIR, KAKM, KDLH, WBNG, WKBW, WPTA, WCNY, WAAY, WMYD, WISE, KOZK, WJCL(10), KOZJ, KBJR, WTVH, WYIN, KARD, KARK, KFTA, KNWA, KTAB, KLBK, KSFX, KCBS, WBRE, WCIA, WLYH, WMBD, WQRF, WROC, WTAJ, WTVW, KTAL, WTLV, WJXX, WKOI, KSDK, KTHV, WFMY, WGRZ, WXIA, WLTX, WATL.

KTNV in Las Vegas NV will cut analog power to 2/3 of full, then flash-cut on 02/17/09.

KDSE in Dickinson ND will operate an auxiliary antenna at low power for 90 days before the transition while it prepares to flash-cut to DT-09 on 2/17/09.

KAJB in Calipatra CA is tied up in coordination issues with Mexico. Mexico protested their use of channel 50 (thus why there's no digital up yet), and has not yet agreed to their use of 36. It is unknown when this will be resolved. (You'd think they'd file to use the allocation of an existing station to make things simple but...)

KFME in Fargo ND will reduce analog ERP leading up to the transition, and then will change over completely 02/17/09.

(8) WGBA will boost power to 1000 kW in August, but otherwise will just shut off analog at the end of the transition.

(9) KMTV will move digital antenna to the top of the tower as soon after 02/17/09 as weather permits.

(10) WJCL's final channel is 22, but they intend to operate channel 23 on an STA after 02/17/09 and prepare the channel 22 transmission equipment afterwards.

(11) KCBS will operate on KCAL's unbuilt CP for 495 kW.

More still to come.

- Trip

(b) KTCA is planning to operate TV-17 and DT-16 until the end, but is having issues with the FCC regarding DT-26. Due to the current freeze, KTCA would be forced to operate with only 12 kW on DT-26 after the transition, and is waiting on the commission to act on a petition to boost that number.

Trip,

This is for KTCI, right? KTCA looks like a normal filing.

This was posted in the HOTP thread about FCC Chairman Kevin Martin posting a letter to the broadcasters about his concerns on the analog low power stations being left out in the digital transition: http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=13110673#post13110673. The actual PDF file is at http://www.fcc.gov/commissioners/martin/cm_letter_021208.pdf.

The scary part is he thinks that the full power stations should volunteer to carry the LP stations as digital sub-channels on a temporary basis. I agree with the gist of Foxeng's reply in that thread. NOW he thinks the converter boxes should have RF passthrough when off? He is the Chairman of the FCC, surely someone must have pointed this out to him some time ago and he could have pushed a requirement for this through. Of course, LP stations could publicize how to insert a splitter to run the antenna signal to both the analog tuner on the TV and the converter box. Not that hard, but yes, confusing to some people.

Here we are, a year from the digital transition for full power stations. Where is the FCC on issuing rules on the conversion of the Class A and low power stations? If a Class A or LP station is ready and willing to perform a digital flash cut conversion on February 17, 2009 and it doesn't present a interference problem to another station, will the FCC allow them to do this? I would think they would, but has the FCC officially said so and provided procedures to do this yet?

For those who don't frequent the HOTP thread, here is my comment in full:

While I have nothing against LP TV stations, it isn't the fault of full power broadcasters, cablers or equipment manufacturers that this "loophole" has been allowed to exist. I do place some blame on the LP stations themselves because most truly believed that this day would never come. And some of the smaller LP owners still believe it will not happen even though the ship is about completely underwater. As I said several years ago, that train had left the station and those not on board were doomed. We now see who are doomed. Had the FCC committee developing the requirements for the DTV converters thought this through to its logical conclusion and required equipment to provide a pass-through relay connected to the power supply, a literal $2 part, we wouldn't have this problem. Unfortunately, this has been SOP with the whole digital transition from day one when the reason changed from providing the public better TV to paying off the national debt. I am not surprised the Chairman is now running for cover and begging for help from the very people he and his predecessors haven't been looking after during this whole process.

I don't think Chairman Martin's request will hit many ears in a positive manner nor do I see full power broadcasters putting LP stations on subchannels on a temp basis unless there are previous agreements in place.

Trip,

This is for KTCI, right? KTCA looks like a normal filing.

Yeah, they're easy enough to get confused. =Þ

I scrapped all the directional arrays from the list. It cut the size of the page by a third--from 74KB down to just under 50KB.

Anyway, here's the last few stations. Just in time to relax a few hours before tomorrow's pile of filings.

Analog to the end:
WCSH, WXMI, WGN, KTIV, WKOW, WVVA, WYOW

Flash-cut 02/17/09:
WMEM, WCBB

Flash-cut on or before 02/17/09:
WCLJ

Two plans:
KBDI
http://fjallfoss.fcc.gov/cgi-bin/ws.exe/prod/cdbs/forms/prod/cdbsmenu.hts?context=25&appn=101233236&formid=387&fac_num=22685

I'll have the next wave some time after midnight, though I may end up doing the list tomorrow in the same manner as today ended up.

- Trip

I've posted the facilities for stations that have filed Form 387 and are in markets #100 or larger. My eyes have started to hate me, so I need to rest them before the FCC filings show up after midnight.

- Trip

136 new filings. I don't feel much like doing them all now... maybe I'll put them off til Saturday, I'm pretty wiped out, and tomorrow evening I'm going to see John Oliver do standup...

- Trip

Figure I'll get started a bit early...

AAA-ADL

Analog to the end, digital complete:
KRBC, WYOU, WTVO, WUTR, KAMC, WFXU, WSRE, KOOD, KSWK, KDCK*, KWKS*, WEBA, WHMC, WJPM, WJWJ, WNEH, WNSC, WNTV, WRET, WRLK, WRJA, WLNE, WLVI, WTIU, KTBS, KVDA, KDEN, KXTX, KSTS, KWHY, KVEA, KTAS, WVIT, WTVJ, WXIN, KCWC, WRC, KNTV, WMAQ, KPLR, WSNS, WSFL, WGXA, KNSD, KXAS, WKAQ

Flash-cutting analog on 2/17/09:
WITV

Silencing analog, returning on new channel:
KLCW

Awaiting FCC action:
WCOV

WVXF in the US Virgin Islands will be silencing their analog around 02/01/09 to prepare to flash-cut the channel 17 transmitter to digital. It will start operating again 02/18/09.

* Already flash-cut or signed on digital-only.

EDIT: Interesting note, WPCW's filing is in this batch; I went ahead and read it and it contains the details from beginning to end of how we ended up here with WPCW having no digital. In fact, at this time it STILL has no digital, and doesn't have one specified in the final table of allocations either. Though channel 11 has been "proposed," since it has not been adopted WPCW can't apply for anything. Furthermore, CBS already spent $500k on a channel 49 antenna it can't use. The FCC made blunder after blunder and if I were in WPCW's shoes, I'd be rather upset.

- Trip

Do people not understand how to do these filings? KIXE's has a part that seems to be completely wrong.

More of yesterday's filings (ADM-AEL):

Analog to the end, just shutting it off when it's over:
KBLR, WILL, WPXT, WKBD, KGPE, KGET, KION, KMCB

Digital-only, digital is final:
KCGE, KMDE

Silencing analog early:
KIXE (08/22/08)

Will flash cut 02/17/09:
KCAL, KTVT, KSTW, KCCO, KCCW, KBRR

Special case:
WPCW
http://fjallfoss.fcc.gov/cgi-bin/ws.exe/prod/cdbs/forms/prod/cdbsmenu.hts?context=25&appn=101234588&formid=387&fac_num=69880

More still to come.

- Trip

More:

Shutting off analog at the end, digital finished:
KWET, KTCW, WBUI, KOET, KCOY, WCCU, KVOS, WRSP, KMTR, WSYR, WWTI, KLRT, KAAS, KASN, KOED, KOKI, KSAS, WFQX, KUCW, KJZZ, WOLF, WHRM, WHLA, WQMY, KNVO, KTVX, KLUZ, WAWS, KCPT, WJKT, KXMA, KXMD, KINT, KTFN, WJTC, WLMT, WPTY, WGFL, KTUL, WTEV, WDSI, WPBY, WNPB**, WLOV, WQTO, KMYT, KPTS, WXXV, WMGT, KIKU

Flash cut 02/17/09:
KOED, KETA, KXMB, KETA, KOED, KXMC, KHET***, KOBF, KJRR, KGUN, KSTP

Awaiting FCC action:
KMEB, KAAL

Already digital-only, done:
WTLF

Pegasus stations that need to flash cut but whose filings contain few or no details:
WSWB, WTLH

Little or no information:
KSCI

KSAX will fit in the first category, but will operate channel 42 with an STA for up to three months while it builds out final facilities with the UHF transmitter from WHEC.

WMTJ in Puerto Rico has yet to build out its digital facilities, but once they are done will fall into the first category, analog to the end.

WMGM has already reduced analog power, but otherwise fits in the first category.

KSTC will operate channel 44 with an STA for a few months until the channel 45 transmitter is converted to digital.

** WNPB will move digital antenna to the top of the tower within 6 months after 02/17/09.

*** Will halve power in Summer 2008.

Pegasus needs to find someone who can file a form.

And that's it for today; the page will be updated to reflect all of these in the next few hours. Then I'll do some facility work.

- Trip

You may have some time to catch up -- I've been following central and eastern Iowa and western Illinois and have noticed a lull since Wednesday.

I'm especially chomping at the bit for Des Moines-Ames, IA, where it appears every station but KDSM will either be moving or flash-cutting.

You may have some time to catch up -- I've been following central and eastern Iowa and western Illinois and have noticed a lull since Wednesday.

I'm especially chomping at the bit for Des Moines-Ames, IA, where it appears every station but KDSM will either be moving or flash-cutting.

Well, no filings appear over the weekend, so I'll try and fill in all the facilities if I can, including any new ones that have been filed. I'm going to complete as much as there is data for.

But over 1000+ stations are showing up Monday and Tuesday mornings. I'm going to fall waaaaay behind before I get caught up again, and I've got three exams next week, so don't expect a finished list before next Sunday, though it could happen.

- Trip

Monday is Presidents' day. FCC employees don't work that day.

Does this mean it will be Wednesday (late Tuesday night) before they get any more filings up on the web?

Would someone describe exactly what "flash cut" means. I've tried to find a definition, but I'm at a loss. Does it mean going from analog to digital on the same channel?

Thanks.

Larry
SF

Would someone describe exactly what "flash cut" means. I've tried to find a definition, but I'm at a loss. Does it mean going from analog to digital on the same channel?
Yes. A station doing a digital flash cut will turn off the analog transmission and fire up a digital transmission on the same channel.

Responding to the other posts, Monday is a federal holiday. So will the stations who have not filed Form 387 still be expected to file by February 18? How automated is the process of putting the submitted Form 387s in the database? It is possible that the FCC staff will have someone processing stuff over the weekend, as the schedule on all this is tight.

I assume that some stations will be late by a day or two. As it stands, the count I get with the FCC application search page is 522 stations so far. That leaves close to 1300 to go. Maybe one way to break this task down is to do it by state once almost all the filings are in to make sure that a station is not overlooked. I plan to review all the stations in the Washington DC and Baltimore DMAs to see what their plans are for my own summary.

Would someone describe exactly what "flash cut" means. I've tried to find a definition, but I'm at a loss. Does it mean going from analog to digital on the same channel?

Thanks.

Larry
SF

Yes, that's what it means.

It means that on some date, (Feb. 17, 2009 or before) they will shut off their analog signal and start their digital on the same channel.

I made a mistake, KPTS is going to leave DT-29 on but on an STA until they replace the analog channel 8 transmitter with a new digital one.

I imagine that all the rest of the filings will pour in after midnight on Monday evening. I had forgotten about President's Day, so that's one more day I have to get caught up I suppose.

My page is now updated with all Forms 387 filed to this point.

- Trip

Stations who file today will be posted over the weekend (usually on Saturday morning after 4am). FCC Form 387 is an on line form only so even though the FCC is closed Monday, stations are still expected to have filed by the end of the day Monday. Those results should be available Tuesday morning after the normal 4am update.

I thought the term "flash cut" only referred to those stations with no digital companion channel on the air now (usually because they came on the air after 1998) and would be broadcasting their first ever digital signal after the transition, on their current analog channel. I have never seen anyone other than Trip in VA use the term to mean a station that has both an analog channel and a digital channel now and will make it's permanent digital home on it's current analog channel.

I assume that some stations will be late by a day or two. As it stands, the count I get with the FCC application search page is 522 stations so far. That leaves close 1300 to go. Maybe one way to break this task down is to do by state once almost all the filings are in to make sure that a station is not overlooked. I plan to review all the stations in the Washington DC and Baltimore DMAs to see what their plans are for my own summary.That's about as good a plan as any. The Cedar Rapids thread has at least a couple of folks looking for these transition forms, and if every local thread had one or two members checking this stuff out for their area, we should be well-covered.

I thought the term "flash cut" only referred to those stations with no digital companion channel on the air now (usually because they came on the air after 1998) and would be broadcasting their first ever digital signal after the transition, on their current analog channel. I have never seen anyone other than Trip in VA use the term to mean a station that has both an analog channel and a digital channel now and will make it's permanent digital home on it's current analog channel.

Originally that was true but here of lately it has morphed into a station that turns off analog and immediately turns on a digital signal on the same channel since so many stations are actually do that.

I thought the term "flash cut" only referred to those stations with no digital companion channel on the air now (usually because they came on the air after 1998) and would be broadcasting their first ever digital signal after the transition, on their current analog channel. I have never seen anyone other than Trip in VA use the term to mean a station that has both an analog channel and a digital channel now and will make it's permanent digital home on it's current analog channel.

Well, go read the FCC filings for yourself. They use the term all over the place. It's not that I picked the term.

- Trip

Stations who file today will be posted over the weekend (usually on Saturday morning after 4am). FCC Form 387 is an on line form only so even though the FCC is closed Monday, stations are still expected to have filed by the end of the day Monday. Those results should be available Tuesday morning after the normal 4am update.

I usually see them show up right after midnight, and on the nearest weekday. So last Friday's filings showed up Monday morning just after midnight.

- Trip

Well, for the last time for some time, my list now SHOULD be fully up to date. Every piece of data available on the FCC site relating to post-transition operation should now be listed. If you find any mistakes, please let me know.

- Trip

Silencing analog, returning on new channel:
KLCW
I was following up on some of the stations. KLCW, CW affilliate in the Lubbock DMA, is TV 22, DT 43. According to their filing attachments, KLCW-DT is on the air at STA power of 39 kW? (http://fjallfoss.fcc.gov/prod/cdbs/forms/prod/getattachment_exh.cgi?exhibit_id=617272). Their filing is for a CP to increase the DT power to meet their post-transition level. Analog will stay on the air until 02/17/09. Form 367 at http://fjallfoss.fcc.gov/cgi-bin/ws.exe/prod/cdbs/forms/prod/cdbsmenu.hts?context=25&appn=101233885&formid=387&fac_num=77719.

But Wikipedia and Falcon_77's DTV Analysis sheet list the station as not having a digital channel. So did KLCW start up a digital signal on UHF 43 recently? [edit - apparently not]

PS. I take this back. Looks like poor wording in their filing. It is the analog signal that is at STA power. The plan is to be ready to fire up a DT 43 channel by end of October, 2008, but analog stays on the air until the bitter end.

Little or no information:
KSCI


KSCI is the only local station that has responded to my inquiries in the recent past. Perhaps I can find out what is going on. I certainly hope the 4.5kW transmitter is a backup as they are filed for 111kW.

KSCI is the only local station that has responded to my inquiries in the recent past. Perhaps I can find out what is going on. I certainly hope the 4.5kW transmitter is a backup as they are filed for 111kW.

4.5 kW sounds reasonable for their full-powered transmitter.

Realize that ERP does not equal transmitter power output. For instance, a transmitter puts no power straight up; nobody to receive it.

ERP is the amount of power that is transmitted toward the horizon. The antenna is designed to redirect power toward the horizon and somewhat below it.

For example, my local FOX station back home has a 60.3 kW analog transmitter, but their ERP is 2690 kW. Divide that out and you find that the ERP is 44 times higher than the power of the transmitter just because of that.

KSCI is only 24 times higher. Definitely reasonable.

DISCLAIMER: I don't fully understand the physics of it or whatnot, and my explanation may even be wrong, but my numbers are accurate even if the reasoning isn't.

- Trip

Looks like poor wording in their filing. It is the analog signal that is at STA power. The plan is to be ready to fire up a DT 43 channel by end of October, 2008, but analog stays on the air until the bitter end.

I decided that KLCW was using the "DT" tag in the general sense as KLCW-DT the station. Yes, it is poorly worded, but they aren't the only ones with this problem. Some of these forms were probably done in 5 minutes, w/o an internal review. 2009, 2008? What's the difference? ;)

I have updated my spreadsheet to reflect the latest updates from this week. I have also separated the Analog and Digital columns and added a 3rd column which has links to additional info on some of the trickier cases.

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=12890633#post12890633

Next week is going to be fun. :D

4.5 kW sounds reasonable for their full-powered transmitter.

Realize that ERP does not equal transmitter power output. For instance, a transmitter puts no power straight up; nobody to receive it.

Ok, I hadn't thought of that.

If it is input power, their use of it in this context does not seem appropriate as most filings are using ERP when specifying transmitter power. But then, KSCI doesn't seem to have put a lot of thought into their 387.

For my info, what are the typical VHF gains (Low and High) on the transmitters vs. UHF gains? I have heard that UHF requires more power, but know it is not as simple as comparing ERP's to know how much higher the respective electric bills are.

I just did a quick check, I found channels 7-13 with multipliers between 6 and 13. (WSET, WSLS, WSET)

I didn't see anything above a multiplier of 5 in my 5-minute check for channels 2-6. (WTVR, KCBS, KNBC, KMOH)

EDIT: WSKY is one of the newest low-VHFs having come on the air since 1997, and it's got a 20 kW transmitter making 100 kW ERP.

- Trip

I decided that KLCW was using the "DT" tag in the general sense as KLCW-DT the station. Yes, it is poorly worded, but they aren't the only ones with this problem. Some of these forms were probably done in 5 minutes, w/o an internal review. 2009, 2008? What's the difference? ;)

I have updated my spreadsheet to reflect the latest updates from this week. I have also separated the Analog and Digital columns and added a 3rd column which has links to additional info on some of the trickier cases.
Yes, I'm surprised at how many stations left some boxes or section unchecked on the form or have text statements with typos and/or are poorly written in their filing. If it were me, for a important filing to the FCC, I would double and triple check it and have someone else proof read it before submitting it. 8 stations have already filed an amendment saying oops, we made an error.

Good job on the spreadsheet! Lot of work to summarize the 522 stations who submitted a 387 so far. Will be interesting to see how many stations filed on Friday at the end of week and because Monday is a holiday. If the Friday filings are posted tonight, anyone want to guess how many were posted on Friday? 500? more? Or are they all going to wait until the last minute. :D

I found this article for the proposed DTV Border Fix Act of 2007:

http://broadcastengineering.com/news/new_legislation_mexcian_border_0215/

The proposed wording is here:

http://thomas.loc.gov/cgi-bin/query/z?c110:S.2507:

In summary, it would "entitle" stations within 50 miles of the Mexican border to continue analog broadcasts for another 5 years, but only within the 2-51 range. This would include areas such as San Diego, CA, Yuma, AZ, El Paso, Laredo, Harlingen and Brownsville, TX.

If passed, it remains to be seen how many would opt to do this.

I found this article for the proposed DTV Border Fix Act of 2007:

http://broadcastengineering.com/news/new_legislation_mexcian_border_0215/

The proposed wording is here:

http://thomas.loc.gov/cgi-bin/query/z?c110:S.2507:

In summary, it would "entitle" stations within 50 miles of the Mexican border to continue analog broadcasts for another 5 years, but only within the 2-51 range. This would include areas such as San Diego, CA, Yuma, AZ, El Paso, Laredo, Harlingen and Brownsville, TX.

If passed, it remains to be seen how many would opt to do this.

No one I know of thinks this will pass. This is Congress playing politics.

What a can of worms. First of all 50 miles from the border is too far, 35 miles should be plenty. Since these stations would still be required to broadcast their digital stations would any of them really want to take on the extra expense. If we're going to entitle stations along the Mexican border for five years shouldn't we also entitle those along the Canadian border for at least a couple of years?

The one year count down begins! One year from now, all full powered analog stations will be history.

Trip... you're doing a great job on your web page transferring all of the Form 387 info into an easy to read format. Thanks for all your work. Don't let the megaload of forms in the next couple days get to you. Post them as you find time. Classes and sleep come first.

I've seen stories about the transition on three of our local stations in the past week.
-- One was about how consumers are being ripped off by merchants selling them expensive HDTV sets when all they wanted was a digital to analog converter, telling them that their old TV sets won't be any good after next year. Buyer beware.
-- Another was about all the TVs that will become electronic junk during the next year as people buy digital TVs and get rid of their old analog sets. They gave tips on recycling them.
-- A third was all about the transistion a year from now, how stations will be turning off their analog transmitters and going all digital. They did a nice job of explaining how cable and satellite viewers will continue to receive local stations if they get them now, and how you can receive digital TV using an antenna with a digital TV or with a converter box. They also told about the government rebate for the digital to analog converter and how to apply for coupons for them.

The PSAs about the end of analog broadcasting are seen very frequently, too, often in the commercial breaks of the newscasts, and many of the local stations have produced their own versions in place of the generic one they started out airing a while back. I don't see how anyone's not going to know about the transition around here if they watch local TV much at all.

Are news stories and PSAs happening in other markets, too?

Larry
SF

Story in the news, PSAs have been going for a couple weeks already. Must be working - when I downloaded the Zip3 spreadsheet, my area (275) was in the top 20 with over 25,000 requests / coupons . Then again - My DMA has WRAL - probably the leading HDTV station in the nation.

Story in the news, PSAs have been going for a couple weeks already. Must be working - when I downloaded the Zip3 spreadsheet, my area (275) was in the top 20 with over 25,000 requests / coupons . Then again - My DMA has WRAL - probably the leading HDTV station in the nation.

Where can this spreadsheet be found? I am curious to see the results for my area as I have not seen anything other than a 6am PSA about 4 months ago, but I spend more time watching SNR numbers than TV. :D

There was a news spot about Best Buy pulling analog TV's at around the same time and the reporter admitted over the air that he had no idea what it meant, though that was in the Palm Springs area. He kindly replied to my e-mail about it, however.

Are news stories and PSAs happening in other markets, too?

My station has been running the action PSAs since September and about once a month has a news story on the transition. The weekend of the Super Bowl I was in one where I was showing how people with rabbit ears (it killed me to do it since I DON'T recommend rabbit ears but that was the heart of the story!) could pick up the digital stations. We had a Sanyo 19 in LCD that had a built in tuner and with a VHF only diplole made it pick up our analog VHF signal (very noisy in the building) and then our digital UHF signal for a one to one comparision. It was very effective. I also write a blog on our station website about the transition.

There is a long article in Broadcasting & Cable that was published today on the DTV transition with a lot of focus on the issues for low power stations. It was posted in the HOTP thread: http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=13145430#post13145430.

My short comment on this, they are just getting around to thinking about hey what about the 2,794 low-power stations and 4,418 translators NOW? The February 17, 2009 date for full power stations has been set since, what December 2005? It should not have taken much foresight for a LP station owner to realize that once digital tuners are widespread that people might not bother checking to see what is on the analog stations very often. Or get confused about how to get the analog signals. Now someone thinks the converter boxes should have had analog tuners built-in?? A tad late for that proposal (which I think is silly because all TVs have a NTSC tuner). Surely a requirement for RF passthrough must have come up for discussion when the converter requirement were being defined.

And what the Chairman of the FCC is proposing is not very friendly to cable or satellite systems and their limited bandwidth by wanting to fast track 600 LPs to full power status and the must carry that comes with it. Sausage making at it's finest. :rolleyes:

From what I heard about 2000 of the over 7000 CA, LP, and TX stations already do have plans for the transition so there really isn't any surprise here.

Alright, seeing as how there's a good chance I'm going to have 1000+ apps dumped on me this evening, I've developed a game plan for what to do with it.

Instead of posting the call letters of every station that gets a filing here, I'm only going to post "surprises" or stations that have interesting things here.

Further, I'm planning to go state-by-state so I don't miss any stations, and thus will post which states are done and available on my site. This'll make it very clear what's done and what isn't. Since Virginia is my home state and interests me the most, it will be done first. It will be followed closely by DC and NC, likely moving north from there to get New England; there should be some interesting filings up that way.

All that said, tomorrow I have an exam and Wednesday I have two, so don't expect me to update quite as rapidly as I did last week; at least not until all that nonsense is over. Until it's all over with on Wednesday evening, I'm focusing on my school stuff first, and this second to break up the boredom and monotony (ironic, isn't it?).

Anyway, start a countdown; a hair over four hours til it starts flooding in!

- Trip

Is anyone else seeing just 300? That number seems very, very small.

EDIT: Or is there another day? Were those only the filings from Friday, and not the whole weekend?

- Trip

Is anyone else seeing just 300? That number seems very, very small.

EDIT: Or is there another day? Were those only the filings from Friday, and not the whole weekend?
I see 297 new filings. I think these are the filings that would have posted last night from Friday if Monday had not been a holiday. A random check of the 387 forms show some of them dated 2/15/08. Will be interesting to see how many stations have not submitted a 387 as of Tuesday night's dump.

Quickie look:
KBGH in Idaho - has decided not to build a DTV facility and will go dark on 02/17/09.
WUSA 9 in DC - flash cut to VHF 9 on 02/17/09. However has petitioned for a change to it's post-transition service area and antenna pattern. Hmm, anyone know how to locate that petition?
WMDT in Salisbury, MD - reduced analog coverage in Oct, 08; planning to shut down analog around Dec. 15, 2008.

I see 300 as well. I'm going through them, but noticed that WSWG has filed to keep full analog service until the transition. However, my notes say that WSWG analog 44 went dark last year and that the cost to repair it was impractical. I wonder what is going on here?

http://fjallfoss.fcc.gov/cgi-bin/ws.exe/prod/cdbs/forms/prod/cdbsmenu.hts?context=25&appn=101232349&formid=387&fac_num=28155

The weekend of the Super Bowl I was in one where I was showing how people with rabbit ears (it killed me to do it since I DON'T recommend rabbit ears but that was the heart of the story!) could pick up the digital stations. We had a Sanyo 19 in LCD that had a built in tuner and with a VHF only diplole made it pick up our analog VHF signal (very noisy in the building) and then our digital UHF signal for a one to one comparision. It was very effective. I also write a blog on our station website about the transition.

Neat deal on the demo!

If you wouldn't mind identifying your station, I'd love to read your blog.

Larry
SF

Neat deal on the demo!

If you wouldn't mind identifying your station, I'd love to read your blog.

Larry
SF

http://community.myfoxwghp.com/blogs/Charlie_Layno

In case anyone still needs the link to my page:

http://www.rabbitears.info/dtr.php?

I've gone ahead and filled in my list for NC, VA, DC, MD, DE, PA, NJ, NY, and all of New England. More to come.

Anyway, there are some interesting filings. I'm going to go in order of markets:

WCBS: WCBS is planning to install a new omni-directional antenna to share with WNBC-28 and WWOR-38 along with a directional antenna on the other side of the building to prevent shadowing. Eventually, it plans to move to the Freedom Tower when that's completed (the filing estimates 2012).

WCAU: WCAU will be sharing WYBE's side-mounted antenna post-transition, but will file to put a new omni-directional antenna on top of its current tower after the transition. It's not specific about whether or not WYBE will be moving with it.

WHDH: WHDH... I can't tell what they want to do. The filing says that they want to flash-cut to STA facilities I think, but I'm unclear as to why.

WWDP: WWDP wants to silence DT-52 on 11/19/08 and then flash-cut TV-46 to DT-10 on 02/17/09.

WQED/WQEX: Plan to operate current facilities under STA until TV-13 equipment can be replaced with DT-13 equipment.

WRAL: Will operate low-power as changes are made to the tower.

WNEP: Claims it will operate at "full analog power" despite the fact they're presently operating TV-16 at low-power due to tower collapse.

WMHT: Analog operating at half-power. Filing on FCC site says they've received permission to terminate analog early, but I think that's a mistake as Exhibit 3 says nothing about it.

WPME: Plans to flash-cut in early December 2008.

WPSU: Apparently involved in an FCC-caused Canadian coordination mess.

WMDT: Plans to flash-cut 12/15/08.

WDPB: Operating analog at low power.

WLBZ: Will operate DT-25 under STA. I wonder if WLBZ might be planning to operate DT-25 under STA in order to file for a new channel (12?) after the filing freeze ends in August 2008, and this is a stalling tactic. The filing says that they don't have a transmitter that can handle DT-02 and will be apparently buying a used one or something (maybe importing WMAZ-DT's channel 4 transmitter?). I seriously doubt that they'd keep channel 2 for any length of time regardless.

I'll be back with more updates as I get through things.

- Trip

Under Chicago, WLS- ABC 07 53 07 should read 07 52 07. 53 is WGBO which is correct in the listing.

While their form 387 isn't up yet, the transition plan for KFMB in San Diego is going to be interesting:

http://www.sbe36.org/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=211&Itemid=1

They will be moving to channel 7 for DTV starting next month, to clear 55 for MediaFLO in Qualcomm's home territory.

However, the experimental channel 7 ERP's presented (47kW and 140kW) greatly exceed their final allotment of 14.9kW (on 8). There is supposed to be a deep null towards the LA area to avoid interference with analog KABC. I will look forward to their 387 filing for more info.

Once done, I will be conducting tests in downtown San Diego to see how this changes reception from 55.

In case anyone still needs the link to my page:

http://www.rabbitears.info/dtr.php?

I've gone ahead and filled in my list for NC, VA, DC, MD, DE, PA, NJ, NY, and all of New England. More to come.

Anyway, there are some interesting filings. I'm going to go in order of markets:

WCBS: WCBS is planning to install a new omni-directional antenna to share with WNBC-28 and WWOR-38 along with a directional antenna on the other side of the building to prevent shadowing. Eventually, it plans to move to the Freedom Tower when that's completed (the filing estimates 2012).

WCAU: WCAU will be sharing WYBE's side-mounted antenna post-transition, but will file to put a new omni-directional antenna on top of its current tower after the transition. It's not specific about whether or not WYBE will be moving with it.

WHDH: WHDH... I can't tell what they want to do. The filing says that they want to flash-cut to STA facilities I think, but I'm unclear as to why.

WWDP: WWDP wants to silence DT-52 on 11/19/08 and then flash-cut TV-46 to DT-10 on 02/17/09.

WQED/WQEX: Plan to operate current facilities under STA until TV-13 equipment can be replaced with DT-13 equipment.

WRAL: Will operate low-power as changes are made to the tower.

WNEP: Claims it will operate at "full analog power" despite the fact they're presently operating TV-16 at low-power due to tower collapse.

WMHT: Analog operating at half-power. Filing on FCC site says they've received permission to terminate analog early, but I think that's a mistake as Exhibit 3 says nothing about it.

WPME: Plans to flash-cut in early December 2008.

WPSU: Apparently involved in an FCC-caused Canadian coordination mess.

WMDT: Plans to flash-cut 12/15/08.

WDPB: Operating analog at low power.

WLBZ: Will operate DT-25 under STA. I wonder if WLBZ might be planning to operate DT-25 under STA in order to file for a new channel (12?) after the filing freeze ends in August 2008, and this is a stalling tactic. The filing says that they don't have a transmitter that can handle DT-02 and will be apparently buying a used one or something (maybe importing WMAZ-DT's channel 4 transmitter?). I seriously doubt that they'd keep channel 2 for any length of time regardless.

I'll be back with more updates as I get through things.

- Trip

I must say, for somebody who's analyzing these 387s as a "break" from school work, you're finding some mighty detailed information! Here in western PA we seem to have more than our share of FCC-caused issues (WPSU, WPCW, to name two.) I think 2/18/09 is going to be a very interesting TV viewing day.

Under Chicago, WLS- ABC 07 53 07 should read 07 52 07. 53 is WGBO which is correct in the listing.

Nice catch, thanks.

While their form 387 isn't up yet, the transition plan for KFMB in San Diego is going to be interesting:

http://www.sbe36.org/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=211&Itemid=1

They will be moving to channel 7 for DTV starting next month, to clear 55 for MediaFLO in Qualcomm's home territory.

However, the experimental channel 7 ERP's presented (47kW and 140kW) greatly exceed their final allotment of 14.9kW (on 8). There is supposed to be a deep null towards the LA area to avoid interference with analog KABC. I will look forward to their 387 filing for more info.

Once done, I will be conducting tests in downtown San Diego to see how this changes reception from 55.

Thanks for this. That's an amusing one, though I guess it's the best they could do under the circumstances. No point in building out a new UHF.

I, too, am curious about the high power. 140 kW on channel 7 and then falling to 14.9 kW on channel 8? Something doesn't seem right about that, though it may be that the FCC won't let them boost the final power that high. There's a freeze on power increases through August. Maybe we'll see a power adjustment upwards after that time.

I've done everything east of the Mississippi River, excepting Minnesota and Louisiana. I'll continue moving west this evening, should I get time.

I think now would be a good time to prep for my Economics exam, which starts at 5:30.

- Trip

WHDH: WHDH... I can't tell what they want to do. The filing says that they want to flash-cut to STA facilities I think, but I'm unclear as to why.
WHDH NBC 7 (pre DT=42, post DT=7): Complicated plan, but not that unclear. See http://fjallfoss.fcc.gov/prod/cdbs/forms/prod/getattachment_exh.cgi?exhibit_id=618119. WHDH current ch 7 antenna is unsuitable for long term use for digital broadcast. Their plan is clearly driven by the desire to keep analog at full power until the bitter end as they are willing to live with degraded digital coverage after 2/17/09 for some months. They plan to file an STA to use the current analog 7 antenna for digital use after Feb 17; DT 42 goes dark on 02/17/09. Once better weather arrives in the spring, in a 2-3 week period from April to July 2009, switch the digital broadcast to an auxiliary antenna while replacing the current ch 7 antenna with the new one. Sounds to me that people in the outer fringes of WHDH-DT's coverage area need to be prepared to get spotty reception for 2-4 months after 02/17/09 and some may lose the station entirely for 2-3 weeks when WHDH-DT switches to the auxiliary antenna.

Obviously when Congress settled on the Feb. 17, 2009 transition date, they did not consult with station engineers on whether this would be a good time of year to do major tower work in the much of the US. Oh well, what else is new in the eternal conflict between upper management and the engineers... ;)

By the way, the Form 387 filings probably will take the rest of the week to clear, because so many filed. And, I bet there will be a few stragglers. And I also bet those could be fined by the FCC for not filing on time. The FCC is drop-dead serious about filing on time.

Okay, I'm in the middle of working on this, right? I'm just about done with Arizona, and I might just finish in time for tonight's pile, if there is one.

There's one filing that has just stopped me in my tracks.

Can someone PLEASE tell me what the @$%& is going on in this one?

http://fjallfoss.fcc.gov/cgi-bin/ws.exe/prod/cdbs/forms/prod/cdbsmenu.hts?context=25&appn=101234545&formid=387&fac_num=74449

- Trip

Whew! All done, and just in time. Midnight is just an hour and 22 minutes away!

- Trip

There's one filing that has just stopped me in my tracks.

Can someone PLEASE tell me what the @$%& is going on in this one?

KYMA NBC 11 in Yuma, pre-DT 41, post-DT 11. Yea, this is a head-scratching 387, but they will be filing for a STA by March 20. My read is that analog 11 stops on 02/17/2009, but KYMA wants to keep their pre-DT 41 channel for up to a year (?) after Feb 17. Then there is a reference to operate on post-transition channel 12? Typo? Maybe the FCC should kick this back for clarification.

WRAL: Will operate low-power as changes are made to the tower.
WRAL CBS 5 in Raleigh, NC with pre-DT 53, post-DT 48. Some serious antenna shuffling going on here in coordination with WRAZ. Sept-Oct 08: move DT 53 to side-mounted auxiliary antenna for 83.7% population coverage, replace DT 53 antenna with new DT 48 antenna on top of tower. Cut to DT 48 at 1/2 power on 02/17/09 for 85.2% population coverage, then upgrade 2nd half of transmitter. March 2009 - WRAL-DT goes full power. Short story: reduced WRAL-DT coverage from Sept/Oct 08 to March 2009. There will be some unhappy OTA viewers in the outer edges of the Raliegh market.
See http://fjallfoss.fcc.gov/prod/cdbs/forms/prod/getattachment_exh.cgi?exhibit_id=617875

I'm one of them - I THINK I'll be OK, as I'm only 23 miles or so from the towers, but I'm in a forest. I'm thinking WRAL/WRAZ and the other stations are likely to be a bit harder than usual, but after March 2009 - things should look better for just about all stations. My big digital problem is WLFL - and it's otherwise on the same tower.

I'm waiting on the WLFL and WRDC and WNCN 387's to get a better idea on what's happening.

339. Still small.

- Trip

One of the filings that came in last night is a rather interesting one, and one of my major-network locals (WVUE "FOX8", New Orleans).

http://fjallfoss.fcc.gov/cgi-bin/ws.exe/prod/cdbs/forms/prod/cdbsmenu.hts?context=25&appn=101233195&formid=387&fac_num=4149

Analog frequency: 8
Pre-Transition: 29
Post-Transition: 8

Highlights of their plan:


Last week of December (circa Dec. 26): Terminate analog service.
Then, begin rebuilding analog channel 8 transmitter to replace NTSC exciter with ATSC exciter and necessary digital filters. They estimate this will take less than 1 week.
When above is complete, switch off Pre-transition 29 and switch on post-transition 8. This will happen on or before Dec. 31, 2008.


Because of the above plan, they indicate they will be applying for (none applied for yet):


Construction permit to do the above.
Early termination of analog signal.
Early transition to post-transition digital frequency.

There will be some unhappy OTA viewers in the outer edges of the Raleigh market.

Many will probably need to tune into WNCT, WFMY or WBTW for CBS coverage during this time period. Those signals reach way into WRAL's area.

As for FOX, no doubt quite a few OTA will be missing out for a time.

Trip,

I noticed that KSBW and KCBA are missing from your list under Monterey, Calif. I'm particularly interested to see if KSBW is going to use their omni antenna on channel 8 after the transition.

Thanks,

Chuck

Okay, I'm in the middle of working on this, right? I'm just about done with Arizona, and I might just finish in time for tonight's pile, if there is one.

There's one filing that has just stopped me in my tracks.

Can someone PLEASE tell me what the @$%& is going on in this one?

http://fjallfoss.fcc.gov/cgi-bin/ws.exe/prod/cdbs/forms/prod/cdbsmenu.hts?context=25&appn=101234545&formid=387&fac_num=74449

- Trip

Looks like some of it may have been cut and pasted from this one:

http://fjallfoss.fcc.gov/cgi-bin/ws.exe/prod/cdbs/forms/prod/cdbsmenu.hts?context=25&appn=101234533&formid=387&fac_num=5290

Someone is going to have to amend these two because they both appear to have a bunch of mistakes.

I noticed that KSBW and KCBA are missing from your list under Monterey, Calif. I'm particularly interested to see if KSBW is going to use their omni antenna on channel 8 after the transition.
KSBW's form 387 was posted last night: analog 8, pre-DT 10, post-DT 8. Looks like a straightforward flash cut on February 17, 2009 to the current ch 8 antenna, so they will be using their omni antenna. Planning to file for expanded DTV facility after filing freeze is lifted. See http://fjallfoss.fcc.gov/cgi-bin/ws.exe/prod/cdbs/forms/prod/cdbsmenu.hts?context=25&appn=101231243&formid=387&fac_num=19653 and http://fjallfoss.fcc.gov/prod/cdbs/forms/prod/getattachment_exh.cgi?exhibit_id=619032.

KCBA - does not appear to have been posted yet.

If you want to look up the 387's yourself, go to http://fjallfoss.fcc.gov/prod/cdbs/pubacc/prod/app_sear.htm. Select Form Number 387 & Service: TV station and then call sign or state or date to filter as you need.

When all the stations are posted and Falcon_77 has updated his spreadsheet and/or Trip in VA has updated his list at rabbitears.com, this will be the quickest way to get a summary of what is happening in a DMA

When all the stations are posted and Falcon_77 has updated his spreadsheet, that will be the quickest way to get a summary of what is happening in a DMA.

I'm working at about half the pace of Trip, with roughly 150 done for the 303 posted earlier this week. I can now understand how draining it is looking at dozens of gray screens in one night.

I'm discovering a lot of old data for the Appendix B on which the spreadsheet was originally based. Some stations have been operating for years on licensed facilities that are not reflected in the post-transition table. The most glaring examples are the stations that were on the WTC.

KPIX in San Francisco on Sutro Tower is an interesting filing:

http://fjallfoss.fcc.gov/prod/cdbs/forms/prod/getattachment_exh.cgi?exhibit_id=617943

My brief spreadsheet notes are:

DTV 29 is currently operating from a side mount antenna, to be moved to the top of the Sutro Tower by 10/18/09; DTV to be available at least 12 hours per day (including prime time hours) from transitional facilities, while the new transmitter is installed. An Aux DTV antenna, lower on the tower, will be used during daylight hours, while work is in progress, to protect the workers from excessive RF radiation.

I expect other Sutro stations to have similar plans.

I have posted my most recent updates to the same post from earlier. Maybe I should just link it on a signature.

When all the stations are posted and Falcon_77 has updated his spreadsheet, that will be the quickest way to get a summary of what is happening in a DMA.

And what's my web page, nothing? :P

I'm slowly making my way through the filings... it's a lot of work to juggle in between prep for two exams today, and a lab and a continuation of an exam tomorrow.

And since I typically start with the east coast (where I'm more familiar with the stations) and move west, it takes me even longer to get to the stations out west. Sorry.

Interesting note about WVUE, I wonder what's making them do it so early? Especially considering that it's a network station like that. I haven't seen many network stations doing things like that; most are juggling things around to keep the analog on the air until the last possible moment.

- Trip

I'm working at about half the pace of Trip, with roughly 150 done for the 303 posted earlier this week. I can now understand how draining it is looking at dozens of gray screens in one night.

No kidding. It's a rough job but someone (preferrably someone who's interested, like myself) has to do it. So I post the data in easy-to-read form.

I'm discovering a lot of old data for the Appendix B on which the spreadsheet was originally based. Some stations have been operating for years on licensed facilities that are not reflected in the post-transition table. The most glaring examples are the stations that were on the WTC.

Some stations NEVER operated at Appendix B facilities. WDBJ in my market has been at 1988' 460 kW ND since they signed on, but the FCC table reflected the proposed "replication" facilities they assigned way back in 1998 of 2001' 605 kW DA.

I'm not sure, but some of the WTC stuff may have been left in place in hopes that the Freedom Tower might be done in time for the transition. I know a lot of stations plan to move there (but leave auxiliary stuff in the ESB I'd hope).

KPIX in San Francisco on Sutro Tower is an interesting filing:

http://fjallfoss.fcc.gov/prod/cdbs/forms/prod/getattachment_exh.cgi?exhibit_id=617943

My brief spreadsheet notes are:

DTV 29 is currently operating from a side mount antenna, to be moved to the top of the Sutro Tower by 10/18/09; DTV to be available at least 12 hours per day (including prime time hours) from transitional facilities, while the new transmitter is installed. An Aux DTV antenna, lower on the tower, will be used during daylight hours, while work is in progress, to protect the workers from excessive RF radiation.

I expect other Sutro stations to have similar plans.

I may as well post the most recent updates I have so far.

That one was interesting. A few summers back my family went out west and we ended up going to Sutro (best part of the whole trip if you ask me). I could only marvel at how much stuff was on that tower. Apparently there's more than I thought.

- Trip

And what's my web page, nothing? :P

It is far from nothing. Sebenste, would you consider adding a link to Trip's page on the first post here as well?

Thanks again, Trip for all your work. Hopefully, I can make use of your web page, so I'm not duplicating your efforts.

I was hoping for some comments from WBRA, but I see that they just pushed through an as-is filing.

Thanks again, Trip. :)

It is far from nothing. Sebenste, would you consider adding a link to Trip's page on the first post here as well?

Thanks again, Trip for all your work. Hopefully, I can make use of your web page, so I'm not duplicating your efforts.

I was hoping for some comments from WBRA, but I see that they just pushed through an as-is filing.

Thanks again, Trip. :)

Haha, thanks for the kind words. I'd like to know more from WBRA as well, maybe I'll call them over Spring Break.

Am I reading these filings correctly:

http://fjallfoss.fcc.gov/cgi-bin/ws.exe/prod/cdbs/forms/prod/cdbsmenu.hts?context=25&appn=101233477&formid=387&fac_num=64550
http://fjallfoss.fcc.gov/cgi-bin/ws.exe/prod/cdbs/forms/prod/cdbsmenu.hts?context=25&appn=101233483&formid=387&fac_num=64549

If I'm understanding them, they say they want to just silence WQOW and WXOW on 02/17/09?

- Trip

And what's my web page, nothing? :P

Ok, I fixed my post. Your summary list of the digital transition is also useful! :D BTW, I was looking at your listings page for Washington DC market and there are errors on there. WNVT has no analog channel, WHUT 32 - after years of delay fired up their digital 33 channel last fall, etc.

Sorting through the plans for all 1800 stations is a huge task. It is not helped by the number of stations submitting incomplete or typo filled applications. My hat is off to you and Falcon_77 at even attempting this. I'm just doing some spot checks. And still waiting for all the DC and Baltimore stations plans to be posted. I'll follow up on your "what a mess" and complicated stations to see if I can figure out what they are doing. But if this all takes another week or two, that's ok.

I assume the FCC will do the same process for the low power stations. Anyone up to reviewing the transition plans for 2,794 LPs? Aieeee... :eek: :eek: :eek:

Ok, I fixed my post. Your summary list of the digital transition is also useful! :D BTW, I was looking at your listings page for Washington DC market and there are errors on there. WNVT has no analog channel, WHUT 32 - after years of delay fired up their digital 33 channel last fall, etc.

WNVT operated analog 53 for many years, though I know they no longer map to it.

I know that the listings are out of date--severely--but I got sick of entering all those coordinates and technical data by hand. If I can find someone to help me code an automated system to pull the technical data from the FCC, I'll add the histories and programming data myself, but updating it as it is can be quite a pain in the neck.

Sorting through the plans for all 1800 stations is a huge task. It is not helped by the number of stations submitting incomplete or typo filled applications. My hat is off to you and Falcon_77 at even attempting this. I'm just doing some spot checks. And still waiting for all the DC and Baltimore stations plans to be posted. I'll follow up on your "what a mess" and complicated stations to see if I can figure out what they are doing. But if this all takes another week or two, that's ok.

Yeah, some of them I just did that because the explanations would be too long to fit within a reasonable amount of space on the page, such as WLRN and KTCA (or is it KTCI? =P ), while the ones I don't understand I'm trying to post here and get an understanding of.

I assume the FCC will do the same process for the low power stations. Anyone up to reviewing the transition plans for 2,794 LPs? Aieeee... :eek: :eek: :eek:

I don't know that they would. Some are going to cut over on 02/17/09 anyway, just to keep up, and the rest are probably translators out west or stations that will switch over on their own soon enough.

If they did though, I'd gladly do at least the eastern half of the US, where the number of translators is relatively limited. Can't say I'd want to do the west, though I would probably end up doing it anyway.

- Trip

Interesting note about WVUE, I wonder what's making them do it so early? Especially considering that it's a network station like that. I haven't seen many network stations doing things like that; most are juggling things around to keep the analog on the air until the last possible moment.

- Trip

Strange, huh?

This is exactly why it caught my eye so much. WGNO/WNOL/WDSU have Katrina-damage motivations for unusual transition stuff. WVUE does not.

Early changeover due to contractor availability, maybe?

That being said, WVUE is quite arguably the most advanced digital broadcaster in New Orleans, in terms of aggressively updating their equipment. They were the first in the area with an HD news broadcast, for example, by many months.

This despite having been for sale since 2004 (with no buyer in sight)...

It is far from nothing. Sebenste, would you consider adding a link to Trip's page on the first post here as well?

Thanks again, Trip for all your work. Hopefully, I can make use of your web page, so I'm not duplicating your efforts.

I was hoping for some comments from WBRA, but I see that they just pushed through an as-is filing.

Thanks again, Trip. :)

Done!

Am I reading these filings correctly:

http://fjallfoss.fcc.gov/cgi-bin/ws.exe/prod/cdbs/forms/prod/cdbsmenu.hts?context=25&appn=101233477&formid=387&fac_num=64550
http://fjallfoss.fcc.gov/cgi-bin/ws.exe/prod/cdbs/forms/prod/cdbsmenu.hts?context=25&appn=101233483&formid=387&fac_num=64549

If I'm understanding them, they say they want to just silence WQOW and WXOW on 02/17/09?

- Trip

It looks like analog will remain until 2/17/09 at full power and that construction for the final DTV top mounted facilities will not begin until thereafter. I'm assuming that the current DTV facilities will continue to operate until the new full-power facilities are available, but I don't see it specifically stated.

They should have used the template that I see on about half of the filing with attached exhibits.

I can't blame some of these stations though. I don't think I'd want to be scaling towers in Wisconsin and many other areas over the winter months. :eek:

It looks like analog will remain until 2/17/09 at full power and that construction for the final DTV top mounted facilities will not begin until thereafter. I'm assuming that the current DTV facilities will continue to operate until the new full-power facilities are available, but I don't see it specifically stated.

Okay, good catch; I didn't see that they had STA facilities to operate. The filing makes it sound like they have no digital on the air at all.

I'm working my way through Florida and Alabama at the moment, once I get Mississippi, I'm going to go ahead and upload what I have. It'll be everything east of the Mississippi except for Louisiana and Minnesota, which don't count due to location.

- Trip

The FCC Daily Report was WAY late today. This may indicate that the FCC is still sifting through the remander of the 387's. This could be an interesting night run.

I've posted everything to the line of states ND-SD-KS-NE-OK, but not Texas yet (with 36 filings).

Off to try to not fail a Calc exam.

- Trip

Everything's in the list but the latest stuff from Texas. There are 36 entries to do there and my eyes are starting to hurt. Check out some of the more interesting entries in the list.

I hope to get the Texas stuff done before midnight; I likely won't post an update when I get it uploaded.

EDIT: I'm finished. I will taste the sweet taste of victory... well, for about 32 minutes, then new ones start coming in I assume. Lots of big names are still missing, so I'd imagine more will come in tonight.

EDIT2: Looks like more are coming in, and they're dated Tuesday. Guess the FCC got backlogged.

- Trip

Is 358 the magic number? I still see a few missing, but that captures most of them as far as I can tell.

At least I have something to do tomorrow. =P

- Trip

I'm about ready to go to bed, but here's where I stand.

PA, WV, VA, NC, SC, GA. All states east of those states (inclusive) have been finished and added to my list. PR is the exception; I'll probably wrap that up last since it's a pain.

I suppose what's amusing me most are the stations that are not listed. Either a couple of stations that needed to file didn't do so (WLOS, WLFL, WABC, WPIX, WTVZ, for example) or there's more filings still to come.

My list is now almost 147KB! That's gigantic, and doesn't even have facilities for most stations yet. And it still has to gain today's wave of stations.

Anyway, I need some sleep now. Have part two of my Computer Science exam, a Physics lab, and two lectures. Plus this stuff.

- Trip

KPIX in San Francisco on Sutro Tower is an interesting filing:

http://fjallfoss.fcc.gov/prod/cdbs/forms/prod/getattachment_exh.cgi?exhibit_id=617943

My brief spreadsheet notes are:

DTV 29 is currently operating from a side mount antenna, to be moved to the top of the Sutro Tower by 10/18/09; DTV to be available at least 12 hours per day (including prime time hours) from transitional facilities, while the new transmitter is installed. An Aux DTV antenna, lower on the tower, will be used during daylight hours, while work is in progress, to protect the workers from excessive RF radiation.

I expect other Sutro stations to have similar plans.

I may as well post the most recent updates I have so far.
---End Quote---
That one was interesting. A few summers back my family went out west and we ended up going to Sutro (best part of the whole trip if you ask me). I could only marvel at how much stuff was on that tower. Apparently there's more than I thought.

- Trip


I live just 3/4 of a mile directly east of Sutro Tower. I get a beautiful view of it out of my living room window. There are facilities for 10 analog, 11 digital and 4 FM stations up there right now. Quite impressive! For a view of what's where on the tower, check out my Sutro page:
http://www.larrykenney.com/sutrotwr.html

As far as what's coming up during the next year, here's the plan. Right now, all 11 digital stations are transmitting from four antennas mounted below the top of the tower using combiners . (See the diagram mentioned above.) They are going to build a new set of combined backup antennas for the digital stations down low on the tower. The stations will switch to the backup antennas when they're finished and ready. The present digital antennas will then be removed.

The 10 permanent UHF digital stations have agreed to combined antennas and feedline systems which will be installed on the towers replacing the VHF antennas for channels 2, 4, 5 and 9, which will no long be used and will be coming down. Only one VHF station will remain on the tower - KGO-DT 7 - after the transition, and it will be the only stand alone antenna.

I have no idea what the time line will be for all of this. It's going to be very interesting to watch the progress. I'll post photos on my Sutro site as things develop.

Also, Trip, Falcon and afiggatt... I'll be checking the 387 information for the SF-SanJose, Sacramento and Monterey DMAs as it's posted. If I see any oddities, I'll let you know.

Larry
SF

This just popped up on the FCC site today.

This isn't a form 387, but it is certainly related to the DTV transition process:

http://fjallfoss.fcc.gov/cgi-bin/ws.exe/prod/cdbs/forms/prod/cdbsmenu.hts?context=25&appn=101234958&formid=911&fac_num=54280

It's a request by WNOL-TV for "instant STA" to commence transmitting on their post-transition frequency, 15, now. From the new WDSU/WNOL/WGNO site.

As I outlined earlier in this thread. WGNO (ABC) and WNOL (CW) (both owned by Tribune) had their pre-transition DT facilities and their analog facilities completely destroyed by Hurricane Katrina. WGNO's pre-transition DT frequency (fully functional before Katrina) was 15. WNOL's pre-transition frequency (also fully functional before Katrina) was 40.

What they've done is simply jury-rigged temporary low-power analog service under STA which they'll shut down on the transition date.

They saw no point in re-building their pre-transition stuff so they just built their post-transition stuff now.

Neither channel's form 387 has showed up yet, but as I outlined in a post above, their plan is:


Commence WNOL-DT on post-transition 15 now.
Flash-cut WGNO on Feb 17, 2009. (Analog 26 to digital 26). WGNO will continue to provide WGNO-DT HD content on physical channel 50.2 (WPXL's transmitter) until Feb. 17, 2009. (50.2 currently maps to 26-1 on all but the most ancient of ATSC tuners.)
Run their low-power STA analog transmitters until Feb 17, 2009.


I wait with baited breath to see their form 387's show up. They ought to be an interesting read.

Is 358 the magic number? I still see a few missing, but that captures most of them as far as I can tell.
I see 354 new filings posted last night. The totals as of today are 387s for 1506 stations and 16 amendments so far for oops, we submitted the 387 w/o careful proofreading and made typos. If they are processing roughly 300+ a day, odds are good that they will get close to wrapping up the postings for all 1800 stations after midnight tonight. There are still several stations missing from the Washington DC DMA, but most of them are in. But a number of them asking for higher post-trans power levels.

WDCA 20, WTTG 5 (DT 35) in DC: analog off 2/17/2009, on post-DT assignments. WTTG will file to meet the 1000 kW power specified in Appendix B and will increase power(?).

WJLA ABC 7 in DC: analog 7, pre-DTV 39, post DT 7. Reduce analog power by 50% around 01/01/2009, flash cut on 02/18/2009 (I hope they mean at midnight?), will turn off DT 39 only after DT 7 broadcast is confirmed to be stable. Cool, identical broadcasts on 2 different physical channels.

WBAL NBC 11, pre-DT 59, post-DT 11: may run analog at reduced power for transmitter mods, flash cut 02/17/2009, will file to increase post-transition contour coverage (with higher power I would guess).

WMAR ABC 2, pre-DT 52, post-DT 38: taking over WJZ's current DT 38 antenna 02/17/2009, analog off 02/17/2009, wants to increase post-trans power from 775 kW specifed to WJZ-DT current 1000 kW, putting up new antennas after 02/17/2009 as discussed in WJZ's filing.

WUTB My 24, pre & post-DT 41: still at STA power of 530 Watts, analog off 02/17/2009, waiting on amended application before going to full DT power? Last holdout at STA power in Balt-Wash markets except for WHAG-DT in Hagerstown.

WJAL 63, pre-DT 16, post-DT 39: antenna is located in PA some 70 miles from DC, serves Hagerstown, MD, but is in the Washington DC DMA. Some odd stuff here. WJAL-DT was reported to have gone to 50 kW on DT 16 very recently. They plan to "flash cut" to DT 39 using existing facilities, but have asked to move community of license to Silver Spring, MD? Are they looking to take over WJLA-DT's abandoned DT 39 hardware and set up a new broadcast out of DC? Hard to serve Hagerstown, DC from a broadcast tower in NW DC. This is an independent, so are they trying to make a move to a major city under the cover of the digital transition, because hey, it is in the same DMA?

WJAL 63, pre-DT 16, post-DT 39: antenna is located in PA some 70 miles from DC, serves Hagerstown, MD, but is in the Washington DC DMA. Some odd stuff here. WJAL-DT was reported to have gone to 50 kW on DT 16 very recently. They plan to "flash cut" to DT 39 using existing facilities, but have asked to move community of license to Silver Spring, MD? Are they looking to take over WJLA-DT's abandoned DT 39 hardware and set up a new broadcast out of DC? Hard to serve Hagerstown, DC from a broadcast tower in NW DC. This is an independent, so are they trying to make a move to a major city under the cover of the digital transition, because hey, it is in the same DMA?

They filed to move WJAL-DT from Hagerstown to Silver Spring a few years ago so as to bring a new signal to DC. Entravision (who owns WJAL) wants to put TeleFutura on WJAL I believe, but cable companies will not carry the signal unless it actually covers DC. WJAL wanted to move DT-16 to DC in order to provide this signal, but this was denied due to the land-mobile reservations on channels 17 and 18 at least.

They want DT-39 so whether they use WJLA-DT's facilities or build their own, there will be no technical reason to disallow it (except, of course, WJZ-DT and WNUV-DT in Baltimore being too close, but we'll see what the FCC has to say about that one since they have WJLA-DT there just fine...).

I've done all of this morning's filings east of the Mississippi. More to come later.

- Trip

KMBC-DT wants DT-29 instead of DT-09. They claim that there is a known VHF reception problem in the market and that they would be the only VHF in the market, and thus request to convert KCWE's analog transmitter/antenna to digital transmission instead of converting the KMBC analog equipment.

I haven't updated, still working through the list, just thought that one was interesting. Another market that's all UHF.

- Trip

how would you analyze this data

#078 Rochester, New York
WHEC NBC 10 58 10 499.' ???? kW ND 20080212ACD Will reduce power around August 2008.

please explain what it means

As noted on the page, from left to right:

Call letters, network, current analog channel, current digital channel, final digital channel, facilities (I have yet to add these on many stations), and then any additional details.

- Trip

Wow.

KOFT in Farmington, NM is not going to survive the transition. H-A has asked the FCC to delete the station, it apparently signed off in November.

H-A implies they're considering the same sort of thing for KOVT and KOCT.

All the other NM satellites (of KOB, KRQE) are making it into the digital age... so Farmington will have CBS, NBC, PBS, and Telemundo, but no ABC.

- Trip

Alright, I've uploaded my latest page. It has everything in it except for Puerto Rico and the non-Oahu (Honolulu) Hawaiian islands. I'll clear those areas up when I return from class.

- Trip

I think the FCC did a mid-day update for the form 387s. I now see 1750 Form 387s submitted for application and 17 amendments received. I discovered this by searching for WHAG which was not there this morning as I recall.

WHAG NBC 25, pre-DT 55, post-DT 26: analog off 02/17/09, if application approved, schedule is for DT 26 to start up by 02/17/09 but has to coordinate with WETA PBS 26 in DC. Needs new antenna, new transmitter, encoders, and possibly new transmitter building. WHAG-DT is at low STA power because it got stuck with UHF 55.

WMPT, WMPB, WFPT (MPT in MD): analog off 02/17/09. Complaints that Appendix B values are wrong for WMPT & WMPB.

Nothing unexpected for the Raleigh Durham market - all stations are now reported, no big surprises. The good news (and the bad news) - everybody is making all their final changes on Feb17, 2009. There will be some work after that, but nothing that should really effect viewers.

Another item of interest in my review of the filings is the number upper VHF stations that are applying for contour expansions.

It appears that the max power for upper VHF is 160kW on DTV (not sure about which zones), but I only see one station at that level currently (KIII). KOAB was filed to join it at 160kW, in 2009, but I have yet to confirm this is still the case. Most 7-13 stations are around 16-25kW. However, a great many analog upper VHF stations are at the maximum of 316kW.

I have been told that UHF DTV stations were allowed a maximum of 1000kW in part due to trying to replicate VHF service areas, so the 1/5 ratio wasn't needed for upper VHF, but I'm beginning to question this again.

I'm slowly making my way through updating the spreadsheet, but it's probably going to be a few weeks.

Another item of interest in my review of the filings is the number upper VHF stations that are applying for contour expansions.

It appears that the max power for upper VHF is 160kW on DTV (not sure about which zones), but I only see one station at that level currently (KIII). KOAB was filed to join it at 160kW, in 2009, but I have yet to confirm this is still the case. Most 7-13 stations are around 16-25kW. However, a great many analog upper VHF stations are at the maximum of 316kW.

It's 30 kW in Zone I and 160 kW in Zone II/III.

Similarly, low-VHF is 10 kW in Zone I and 45 kW in Zone II/III. I don't think anyone's at that power level, though KHAS may have requested it.

I have been told that UHF DTV stations were allowed a maximum of 1000kW in part due to trying to replicate VHF service areas, so the 1/5 ratio wasn't needed for upper VHF, but I'm beginning to question this again.

I'm slowly making my way through updating the spreadsheet, but it's probably going to be a few weeks.

Yeah, I started going through it again since the FCC updated again during the day.

Everything east of the Mississippi River except for Puerto Rico SHOULD be done now. I'll get the west later, my mind is telling me to go do something else because all these gray pages are mind-numbing.

Course I'll probably just tell my mind to tough it out because I'm so close to being done.

Then this weekend I can start entering facilities. Joy.

- Trip

It's 30 kW in Zone I and 160 kW in Zone II/III.

Similarly, low-VHF is 10 kW in Zone I and 45 kW in Zone II/III. I don't think anyone's at that power level, though KHAS may have requested it.

Great. Thanks for the info. Is 3.2kW of any significance? There are quite a few at that power level, which makes it seem like another cap for certain areas.

Also, can someone explain the significance of a "License to Cover"? Is this just a filing to make an STA or a CP into a fully licensed station or does it serve a different purpose?

Great. Thanks for the info. Is 3.2kW of any significance? There are quite a few at that power level, which makes it seem like another cap for certain areas.

Also, can someone explain the significance of a "License to Cover"? Is this just a filing to make an STA or a CP into a fully licensed station or does it serve a different purpose?

I don't know what's with the whole 3.2 kW thing, other than that upper-VHF analogs are at 316 kW and 3.2 kW is about 1/100 (-20dB? I'm still trying to understand dB measures) of that power level. That may have something to do with it.

You are correct, a license to cover just turns a CP into a licensed facility. It must be a CP, not an STA. The STA must first be made a CP, then covered.

- Trip

Alright, once again, everything but Texas and Puerto Rico should be finished.

The file is now 204KB.

- Trip

Trip, you've done a great job on this. I don't know how you do it, balancing this with the rigors of keeping up with a college curriculum, but I'd say it's about time for you to take a break and maybe have a few beers.:D

I have a question regarding this Form 387 process.

These filings have all been "Accepted for Filing" by the FCC. Am I correct in assuming that that does not mean an ultimate "Granted" by the FCC? In other words, will some of these "plans" be rejected as not meeting the requirements of the Third Periodic Review?

Case in point is a station from my geographic area/DMA, KWGN. This station is currently operating under an STA with reduced power of 450 kW. Their CP is for full power of 1 mW. From my reading of the Third Periodic Review, KWGN falls under the 5-18-08 deadline to be full power since they are staying on their pre-transition channel, 34, post-transition. Two other stations in my DMA that fall into this category, KCNC and KTVD, will meet the 5-18-08 deadline for full power per their Form 387 filings.

KWGN appears to be attempting to make an end run around the Third Periodic Review. They do not plan to order their full power transmitter until 12-08 and don't plan to have it operational until 8-17-09, basing their planned actions on legal problems which were resolved approximately 1 year ago and applied equally to KCNC and KTVD and purporting that going full power earlier than 8-17-09 will adversely impact their analog operations.

This one seems to be a prime candidate for rejection by the FCC. Any comments? Here's the link to KWGN's attachment/explanation from their Form 387.

http://fjallfoss.fcc.gov/cgi-bin/ws.exe/prod/cdbs/forms/prod/cdbsmenu.hts?context=25&appn=101231321&formid=387&fac_num=35883

My spreadsheet is now up to date through the 2/19 status filing.

I was looking at the filing for KLCS which is one of our local PBS stations. It looks like the lightning strike did more damage than I thought. KLCS analog has been very poor ever since, but I didn't know that the DTV antenna was also destroyed. The Aux DT antenna (90kW) is doing quite well it seems.

http://fjallfoss.fcc.gov/cgi-bin/ws.exe/prod/cdbs/forms/prod/cdbsmenu.hts?context=25&appn=101233695&formid=387&fac_num=38430
http://fjallfoss.fcc.gov/prod/cdbs/forms/prod/getattachment_exh.cgi?exhibit_id=618322

I'm surprised that they are going to bother getting analog 58 back up to speed at this point. I don't know what the emergency analog STA ERP is, but it's probably under 200kW (more like an LP).

I don't think Trip is old enough for a few cold ones :) , but yes, he deserves a pat on the back and a big thank you for his efforts.

I don't think Trip is old enough for a few cold ones :) , but yes, he deserves a pat on the back and a big thank you for his efforts.

Don't you mean "pat on the head?" :D :D :D

These filings have all been "Accepted for Filing" by the FCC. Am I correct in assuming that that does not mean an ultimate "Granted" by the FCC? In other words, will some of these "plans" be rejected as not meeting the requirements of the Third Periodic Review?
Yes, these are filings for what the station wants to do. Some of them will probably be rejected, but given the complexities of the transition, the FCC's statements indicate that they will give the stations a lot more latitude than they would otherwise.

A number of these filings want changes to their final post-transition power and radiate pattern or for stations that are at their post-DT channel, complain that the Appendix B numbers do not match what they actually have or are licensed for. How many of those filings will be granted in time for the stations who want increased power or different radiate pattern is likely to be an issue.

KWGN appears to be attempting to make an end run around the Third Periodic Review. They do not plan to order their full power transmitter until 12-08 and don't plan to have it operational until 8-17-09, basing their planned actions on legal problems which were resolved approximately 1 year ago and applied equally to KCNC and KTVD and purporting that going full power earlier than 8-17-09 will adversely impact their analog operations.
This one seems to be a prime candidate for rejection by the FCC. Any comments?
I don't see the problem with their plan unless you are in the population that is not covered by their 450 kW interim STA DT 34 broadcast. The attachment states that the current in-core DT 34 signal covers 92.5% of the analog service population. Their post DT channel is 34, so they are not blocking anyone else from the channel. Given the Denver climate, replacing an analog antenna and the transmission line in the middle of winter on a mountain top is obviously a problem. So they turn off analog on 02/17/2009, operate off of a STA 450 kW signal which is a strong power level albeit from a poorer location, and replace the antenna & transmitter when the weather improves in April-July, 2009. I would think the FCC would accept this. If you are in the Denver market, how difficult is it to get the KWGN-DT current digital signal over most of the larger metro area?

Trip, you've done a great job on this. I don't know how you do it, balancing this with the rigors of keeping up with a college curriculum, but I'd say it's about time for you to take a break and maybe have a few beers.:D

I don't think Trip is old enough for a few cold ones :) , but yes, he deserves a pat on the back and a big thank you for his efforts.

Don't you mean "pat on the head?" :D :D :D

Hahaha, that's correct, I'm not old enough, but I've decided I don't want to drink either anyway. I had a couple glasses of milk to celebrate though. :D

Yes, these are filings for what the station wants to do. Some of them will probably be rejected, but given the complexities of the transition, the FCC's statements indicate that they will give the stations a lot more latitude than they would otherwise.

I remember seeing one station that wanted to leave their out-of-core DT station on the air post-transition (I may be mistaken) despite the rules saying that cannot be done, that sort of thing will be rejected. I imagine most of the rest will be accepted.

A number of these filings want changes to their final post-transition power and radiate pattern or for stations that are at their post-DT channel, complain that the Appendix B numbers do not match what they actually have or are licensed for. How many of those filings will be granted in time for the stations who want increased power or different radiate pattern is likely to be an issue.

If a station already has built out its facilities, Appendix B will get changed, I have no doubt about that.

I imagine that the FCC will approve most of the antenna pattern changes relatively quickly, as opposed to forcing stations to operate at low power involuntarily, possibly cutting out viewers after the transition.

I don't see the problem with their plan unless you are in the population that is not covered by their 450 kW interim STA DT 34 broadcast. The attachment states that the current in-core DT 34 signal covers 92.5% of the analog service population. Their post DT channel is 34, so they are not blocking anyone else from the channel. Given the Denver climate, replacing an analog antenna and the transmission line in the middle of winter on a mountain top is obviously a problem. So they turn off analog on 02/17/2009, operate off of a STA 450 kW signal which is a strong power level albeit from a poorer location, and replace the antenna & transmitter when the weather improves in April-July, 2009. I would think the FCC would accept this. If you are in the Denver market, how difficult is it to get the KWGN-DT current digital signal over most of the larger metro area?

Agreed. KCNC and KTVD are building a whole new tower, while KWGN is operating on their current tower. Two different situations that call for two different policies. Since there's no existing station operating on the KCNC/KTVD tower, they can do whatever they need. KWGN is limited by its current analog coverage and not wanting to reduce/silence it early.

As far as the web page goes, the whole thing should be done now. There are some stations that I didn't find filings for... And if you find any mistakes at all, please let me know. Stations flash-cutting to STAs that are missing do not count unless their STA is at severely reduced facilities. For example, I didn't specifically note KWGN as operating under an STA post-transition because coverage shouldn't differ too radically.

I plan to do some work on facilities over the weekend, but we'll see how far I get on that. I may try and find something else to do.

- Trip

My spreadsheet is now up to date through the 2/19 status filing.
I volunteer to fill in and double check while cross-referencing with Trip's list, the info for the Washington DC, Baltimore, and Salisbury, MD DMAs. I can send you the data via private message to paste it into your spreadsheet. Trip has done a huge job, but it helps to double check the info and have several people look at the confusing filings. I can also do the Philadelphia and Harrisburg, PA DMAs if you want.

I think what you and Trip is doing will be very useful to a lot of people. But it is important to be accurate as we can on the key information, so people in the different markets can be prepared for the transition. Especially for the major networks in the larger DMAs to cover the most people. If other people could volunteer to double check for their DMAs, I think that would help.

Once we get the info updated, we should generate some statistics and summaries such as:
# of stations shutting down analog early
# of stations reducing power for analog early
# of stations shutting down their pre-trans DT channel early or for an extended period.
# of stations reducing power for pre-trans DT channel early or for an extended period.
# and list of stations completing the DT transition early with analog off and pre-DT channel off if different.
List of stations that are going to go dark and won't provide a digital channel.
List of stations that are stuck waiting for a final DT assignment because of FCC delay or international approval problems.

If someone gets ambitious, maybe a list of stations which either don't have a 387 posted or may not have filed yet? I don't see one for KUQI, a new Fox affiliate in Corpus Christi area which is analog only which someone asked me about elsewhere on the net.

I noticed that some of Trip's links to 387 forms bring up blank forms where a day or two ago they were filled in forms. KTVU San Francisco and KSBW Monterey are two such stations.

Any idea what happened?

Chuck

I volunteer to fill in and double check while cross-referencing with Trip's list, the info for the Washington DC, Baltimore, and Salisbury, MD DMAs. I can send you the data via private message to paste it into your spreadsheet. Trip has done a huge job, but it helps to double check the info and have several people look at the confusing filings. I can also do the Philadelphia and Harrisburg, PA DMAs if you want.

Thanks, afiggatt! Sounds like a plan, as long as I can remember to skip those. ;)

I'm updating using the Form 387's and exhibits, rather than just copying what Trip has put up, so we can cross reference and compare, etc. I have not had time to compare my results for most stations with his yet, but plan to do so for the tricky ones.

I noticed that some of Trip's links to 387 forms bring up blank forms where a day or two ago they were filled in forms. KTVU San Francisco and KSBW Monterey are two such stations.

Any idea what happened?

Chuck

No, that's odd. I'll correct those in a few minutes, when I get back to my dorm. If you find any more, please let me know.

- Trip

I noticed that some of Trip's links to 387 forms bring up blank forms where a day or two ago they were filled in forms. KTVU San Francisco and KSBW Monterey are two such stations.

Any idea what happened?

Chuck

Shoot. I think I know what's wrong, and it's not going to be fun to fix. I haven't changed the link, but try KTVU now. If it works for you, and KSBW still does not, then my guess is correct, and I have a lot of work cut out for me this weekend.

In the mean time, go check out WTVE on my page. Tell me what you think. (This is addressed to everyone, by the way)

- Trip

Shoot. I think I know what's wrong, and it's not going to be fun to fix. I haven't changed the link, but try KTVU now. If it works for you, and KSBW still does not, then my guess is correct, and I have a lot of work cut out for me this weekend.

Sorry to be the bearer of bad news but KTVU is fixed and KSBW is not. If it's any encouragement, I think you're doing great work putting all these together in one concise source!

In the mean time, go check out WTVE on my page. Tell me what you think. (This is addressed to everyone, by the way)

- Trip

I never heard of a DTS broadcast TV system before. I wonder if there are interference problems between the various transmitters? There must be overlap.

Chuck

Sorry to be the bearer of bad news but KTVU is fixed and KSBW is not. If it's any encouragement, I think you're doing great work putting all these together in one concise source!

I never heard of a DTS broadcast TV system before. I wonder if there are interference problems between the various transmitters? There must be overlap.

Chuck

Crud. Yeah, turns out the links I'm using are no good. I have to change them all now. Yes, all of them. No, I'm not pleased.

Basically, the FCC has a blank form page. When someone clicks a link off their search page, it loads a "pre-fill" page where it fills in the data from the database into the form. It then stores this page for a few days.

What I did was I searched for KTVU on the FCC site, then clicked the search link. It repopulated the page because it went through that pre-fill process. I have to change all the links to that pre-fill link instead of directly to the forms.

I wish I had a way I could automatically clear all the links out of the page. It'd make my life a lot easier.

As far as the DTS is concerned, they're laid out in such a way as to not overlap, or where there is overlap, the signals are supposed to sync up so as to not present as multipath interference. WTVE is not the first--I think WPIX has that honor--but if you search "DTS" on my web page, you'll see that WTVE will likely not be the last.

I expect to see many rimshot stations request to operate DTS. Just look at the power WTVE-DTS7 has.

- Trip

Well trip - there's good news and bad news on your dilemma -
Good - it appears the following is always the same -
http://fjallfoss.fcc.gov/cgi-bin/ws.exe/prod/cdbs/forms/prod/prefill_and_display.pl?Application_id=

what changes for every facility - 1232833
stays - &Service=TV&Form_id=387&Facility_id=
changes - 35582

You basically have 2 fields that change for every facility
This SHOULD be not too bad to cut/paste a change if you can use a real text editor

Meh, I've started just changing out the links one by one. I need to go through and add facility data anyway, so I'll do it all in one run. NY, LA, and Chicago are already done. Philly's in progress. Oddly, I already had the correct link in place for WLVT.

- Trip

I've gone through all of the San Francisco, Sacramento and Monterey DMA 387s. Every station is accounted for. I've done an overview of each station and have made lots of notes. I'll check over these three DMAs on Trip's list and on Falcon's spreadsheet, and I'll let you know if I find any incorrect information. Falcon, let me know when you've completed all of the 387's and I'll post an updated copy of the spreadsheet on my site.

Kudos to both of you for your excellent work on the list and spreadsheet!

In my review I noticed that three stations that transmit from Sutro Tower indicate that they're using their "fully authorized final DTV (post-transition) facility" when, in fact, they are in the same group as the other stations on the tower. They won't be on their final antenna until October, '09, but they didn't include any exhibit information like the others. They are: KBCW, KCNS and KFSF.

After looking over the Sutro plans, I've determined the dates for the various steps in the antenna change process:
-- In December of this year they're going to installed a combined antenna cluster at mid-tower that will be used as the alternate/back up digital antennas.
-- All except KGO 7 will continue to operate on their present temporary, combined antenna cluster after the transition. KGO will use its present analog antenna for digital operation.
-- After 2-17-09, they will be removing all of the antennas used for analog operation at the top of the tower and replacing them with new permantent UHF antennas for the combined operation. The UHF stations have all agreed to use combined antennas and feedline systems. KGO will have its old antenna replaced with a new one during this process. They will do one tower stack at a time, removing the old and installing the new, before going on to the next tower stack. They plan to have all of the work completed so that all stations are operating on their permanent new antennas prior to October 18, 2009. As I said previously, I'll post photos of the work in progress. It's going to be fun to watch the changes!

During the day when crews are working at the top of the tower removing and installing the antennas, stations will use the new alternate/back up antennas at the tower mid-point so that the crew won't be cooked by the RF.

Larry
SF

I've gone through all of the San Francisco, Sacramento and Monterey DMA 387s. Every station is accounted for. I've done an overview of each station and have made lots of notes. I'll check over these three DMAs on Trip's list and on Falcon's spreadsheet, and I'll let you know if I find any incorrect information. Falcon, let me know when you've completed all of the 387's and I'll post an updated copy of the spreadsheet on my site.

Kudos to both of you for your excellent work on the list and spreadsheet!

Thanks! I do appreciate you running through my information; I want it to be as accurate as possible. If you happen to find any information about final digital facilities that I may miss, please let me know. All those question marks floating around are bothering me. :D

I'm still working on relinking and trying to fill in facilities where I can. (As of this post, I just finished Detroit) I'm trying to gain information both from Form 387 and from any attachments. If a station says they're using an existing analog antenna, I'm putting its height and whether it's directional or not without any power data. If they say they're going to reuse another station's facilities, I'm copying those facilities.

- Trip

Any ideas why KASY-DT and KWBQ-DT is not on the list? This is from Albuqurque DMA.

Is the FCC still behind the paperwork or is's the stations forget to file the form to the FCC?:eek:

2-23-08

Any ideas why KASY-DT and KWBQ-DT is not on the list? This is from Albuqurque DMA.

Is the FCC still behind the paperwork or is's the stations forget to file the form to the FCC?:eek:

2-23-08

It looks to me like all of AcmeTV stations didn't file:

WBUW, WIWB, WBDT, WBXX, KRWB, in addition to the two you mentioned.

I don't know WHY they didn't file, but they're not the only ones. Others include WPPB and WADL.

- Trip

They may have filed but the FCC hasn't assigned filing numbers yet. It sometimes take a while and with the number that I am sure came in, we may be seeing more in the coming days. My onw station, we filed on the 18th but didn't get a filing number until the 19th posted on 21st.

In my review I noticed that three stations that transmit from Sutro Tower indicate that they're using their "fully authorized final DTV (post-transition) facility" when, in fact, they are in the same group as the other stations on the tower. They won't be on their final antenna until October, '09, but they didn't include any exhibit information like the others. They are: KBCW, KCNS and KFSF.

I was wondering about this when I looked at KFSF's filing. Will the current DTV "middle" combination antenna be completely removed when all of this is done? I'm assuming that the backup/Aux DTV antennas will eventually be installed near the base in place of the current analog Aux antennas. I will look forward to the pictures of the work.

I have done some more updating and hope that I've reached the half-way point. Afiggatt has also helped out on several DMA's (thanks!). Currently I am going State by State, rather than sequential by filing, working backwards. I have finished up to SC, but have skipped TX for now as I will probably have to spend a day just on that State. :D

My webpage should now be finished or close to it for markets 1-30. Links have been replaced and facilities added where known.

- Trip

My webpage should now be finished or close to it for markets 1-30. Links have been replaced and facilities added where known.

- Trip

Well, it appears that if anyone re-runs the application search, the data will return. All the ones that I've entered over the past couple days appear to be working, but the older ones don't until I re-run a manual search.

So, if someone can re-run the searches for each every few days, it should be fine. ;)

I've been linking as many exhibits as forms and the exhibits appear to be ok, for now...

The cut and paste process will be arduous, so I will need to see how to handle this. I won't be linking any filled forms going forward. The spreadsheet has been growing too quickly with these links as it is.

Thanks! I do appreciate you running through my information; I want it to be as accurate as possible. If you happen to find any information about final digital facilities that I may miss, please let me know. All those question marks floating around are bothering me. :D
- Trip

I have ERP and HAAT for all stations, but none of it seems to be consistent. I think I got it from the FCC data, if I remember right. Some show the height for the top of the tower, others show the hight for the temporary combined antennas they're operating on now. Maybe we'll just have to wait until the stations submit their Application for STA or CP for the antenna change to fill in these values.

Here are my corrections and updates for SF #006, Sacramento #20 and Monterey #124:
San Francisco:
General comment for ALL Sutro Tower stations: Will be operating at reduced power on alternate antenna periodically after 02/17/09 while permanent antenna is being installed. (I added "on alternate antenna".) Will be on new permanent antenna 8/09.
KRON: Will operate on reduced power DT57 12/08 to 2/17/09, reduced power DT38 2/18/09, full power on DT38 5/31/09.
KCNS and KBCW: Final power and height unknown for these two also.
KICU: DT36 - On aux. antenna at 95% power 2/18/09. Full power on new antenna 8/18/09.
KRCB: DT23 on STA reduced power until tests with county are complete. Full power late 2008.
At bottom of SF list, KUNO is Fort Bragg, not Ukiah.

Sacramento:
KCRA: 93% power until 8/09.
KVIE: Installation of antenna needs to be coordinated with KTXL. Flash-cut 2/18/09.
KTXL: 50% power analog 40 1/09, 50% power DT40 2/18/09, full power 4/09.
KTFK: Will flash cut to new transmitter location. Now on Mt. Diablo; moving to Walnut Grove 2/18/09.

Monterey:
KSBW: Will use channel 10 antenna for DT8 until new channel 8 antenna is ready.
KQET: Using same transmitter and antenna now on DT58 for DT25. Will install mask filter and retune exciter prior to transistion. Full power DT25 on 2/17/09.

That's it!

Larry
SF

General comment for ALL Sutro Tower stations: Will be operating at reduced power on alternate antenna periodically after 02/17/09 while permanent antenna is being installed. (I added "on alternate antenna".) Will be on new permanent antenna 8/09.

Yeah, that's why I'm leaving it as ???.

KRON: Will operate on reduced power DT57 12/08 to 2/17/09, reduced power DT38 2/18/09, full power on DT38 5/31/09.
KCNS and KBCW: Final power and height unknown for these two also.

Yeah, they're all uncertain, so I'm leaving them all as ???.

KICU: DT36 - On aux. antenna at 95% power 2/18/09. Full power on new antenna 8/18/09.

95% power to 100% power makes so little difference that I'm not bothering listing little things like that. Shoot, WSLS-DT was just as receivable at 55.46 kW as they are now at 950 kW.

KRCB: DT23 on STA reduced power until tests with county are complete. Full power late 2008.

But they'll be at full-power in time for 2009. I don't want to have to update this thing any more than necessary.

At bottom of SF list, KUNO is Fort Bragg, not Ukiah.

Good catch.

Sacramento:
KCRA: 93% power until 8/09.

See KICU.

KVIE: Installation of antenna needs to be coordinated with KTXL. Flash-cut 2/18/09.
KTXL: 50% power analog 40 1/09, 50% power DT40 2/18/09, full power 4/09.

Got KVIE. Not too concerned about KTXL, since the time-frame is so short.

KTFK: Will flash cut to new transmitter location. Now on Mt. Diablo; moving to Walnut Grove 2/18/09.

Went ahead and mentioned the move to Walnut Grove.

Monterey:
KSBW: Will use channel 10 antenna for DT8 until new channel 8 antenna is ready.

In fact, the filing says nothing about a new channel 8 antenna. It just says that they're using the DT-10 antenna for DT-08.

KQET: Using same transmitter and antenna now on DT58 for DT25. Will install mask filter and retune exciter prior to transistion. Full power DT25 on 2/17/09.

Ask the common person what a mask filter and an exciter are. (I don't even know what a mask filter is) The important part is that it's being flash-cut. Trying to keep the description to a minimum.

I'm up to #55. This redoing of links and adding of facilities is extremely time-consuming.

- Trip

Ask the common person what a mask filter and an exciter are. (I don't even know what a mask filter is)

A mask filter is the filter on the output of the digital transmitter that a) keeps the out of band emissions within FCC tolerance (what is called the shoulders below -47 db down because they look like shoulders on a person) and b) makes that VERY squarewave signal receivers must have to work. Analog stations have filters to, but they are usually what are called hybrid combiners, they combine the analog visual and aural into one transmission line to run to the antenna and also keeps emissions within FCC tolerance. You can use a mask filter in analog service it isn't no where near as efficent as a hybrid conbiner and takes a heck of a lot more raw power to make it work and you can't use a analog hybrid combiner in digital service, completely wrong type of filter. In digital service, the mask filter is pretty good all around.

Alright, well, I got up to #75. Tomorrow I need to get some actual school work done, haha, so who knows if I'll make any progress.

The only other note I wanted to make was about KVAW in Eagle Pass, TX. The station is on analog 16 and digital 18, but has asked to be reassigned to DT-24. Upon further investigation, it turns out that the new owner wants to build a 2000' tower to put KVAW-DT on to rimshot San Antonio. It looks rather interesting I think.

- Trip

This is a most unusual station all the way around. KBSV, Ceres, Calif, is the only Assyrian TV station in the country. They're a full service station yet their analog transmitter is only 15KW. In their 387 filing they told the FCC that they are operating their digital transmitter from their analog transmitter site. This is untrue. They are not on the air digitally. I was receiving their digital broadcast last summer through mid fall when they suddenly disappeared. They have not come back on. Despite only running 7.7 KW on channel 15, 45 miles distant and one ridge to look over, their signal was rock solid here. It doesn't seem like a good idea to tell the FCC one thing and do something else.

In their 387 filing, they've told the FCC that they'll be using a 5.6GHz unlicensed link to a new transmitter site. Is this common practice for stations to do this?

Chuck

This is a most unusual station all the way around. KBSV, Ceres, Calif, is the only Assyrian TV station in the country. They're a full service station yet their analog transmitter is only 15KW. In their 387 filing they told the FCC that they are operating their digital transmitter from their analog transmitter site. This is untrue. They are not on the air digitally. I was receiving their digital broadcast last summer through mid fall when they suddenly disappeared. They have not come back on. Despite only running 7.7 KW on channel 15, 45 miles distant and one ridge to look over, their signal was rock solid here. It doesn't seem like a good idea to tell the FCC one thing and do something else.

In their 387 filing, they've told the FCC that they'll be using a 5.6GHz unlicensed link to a new transmitter site. Is this common practice for stations to do this?

Chuck

That's interesting. Are you sure that it's completely silent though? I remember hearing that the FCC has some kind of tolerance, that stations can operate at 80 or 85% of authorized power and still be legal. It might be an interesting idea to e-mail them or call them and ask.

As far as the 5.8GHz link, I can't say I've ever heard of a TV station using one of those, but I can say that the high school I went to (and had a tech job) ran its whole infrastructure to all the other schools on unlicensed 900MHz equipment and it could be pretty unreliable at times. I'd be amused to see how long they use it once it gets going, and how reliable it is.

- Trip

That's interesting. Are you sure that it's completely silent though?

- Trip

I pulled my spectrum analyzer out and took a look and there isn't a hint of any signal. If they had anything at all on the air I'd see something. Maybe they figured no one was watching their digital channel so it wouldn't make any difference if they were on or not. :)

Chuck

I pulled my spectrum analyzer out and took a look and there isn't a hint of any signal. If they had anything at all on the air I'd see something. Maybe they figured no one was watching their digital channel so it wouldn't make any difference if they were on or not. :)

Chuck

I wish I had a spectrum analyzer! Haha.

Just a general announcement, I don't know when the next time I'll be able to work extensively on my page is. I had to take my roommate to the Emergency Room and so now I'm really behind on my work, so... (He's okay)

- Trip

The FCC will allow a station 12 months off the air before they pull the license.

Will the current DTV "middle" combination antenna be completely removed when all of this is done? I'm assuming that the backup/Aux DTV antennas will eventually be installed near the base in place of the current analog Aux antennas. I will look forward to the pictures of the work.


From what I understand, the new UHF antenna cluster is going to be the permanent aux/backup antennas for the UHF digital stations. I think it's going to stay at Level 3.

KGO will probably continue to use their present aux antenna, but that's only an assumption on my part. Maybe they'll get a new one when they remove all of the unneeded aux antennas at Level 1.

Larry
SF

The 387s for four more stations was posted overnight (since 02/22/2008): WPPB-TV, KTVE, WHIZ-TV, WADL. There is an amendment from WWNY-TV to fix a typo for channel # in one of the attachments. A quick look shows WADL filing is date 02/22, so they filed late. So some more filings are trickling in.

The 387s for four more stations was posted overnight (since 02/22/2008): WPPB-TV, KTVE, WHIZ-TV, WADL. There is an amendment from WWNY-TV to fix a typo for channel # in one of the attachments. A quick look shows WADL filing is date 02/22, so they filed late. So some more filings are trickling in.

KOHD also filed. All have been added to my list since it only took three minutes.

- Trip

I am still working on the spreadsheet for last week's filings. The status filings for up to 2/19 are included and the remainder of the filings I am working through State by State.

With the latest update, NC through WY have been completed, though I am not yet looking at the new filings trickling in this week. PR has not yet been updated, however.

My page has today's filings on it, which includes the AcmeTV stations at long last, and WRJM and there might have been some others I'm forgetting.

- Trip

A mask filter is the filter on the output of the digital transmitter that a) keeps the out of band emissions within FCC tolerance (what is called the shoulders below -47 db down because they look like shoulders on a person) and b) makes that VERY squarewave signal receivers must have to work. Analog stations have filters to, but they are usually what are called hybrid combiners, they combine the analog visual and aural into one transmission line to run to the antenna and also keeps emissions within FCC tolerance. You can use a mask filter in analog service it isn't no where near as efficent as a hybrid conbiner and takes a heck of a lot more raw power to make it work and you can't use a analog hybrid combiner in digital service, completely wrong type of filter. In digital service, the mask filter is pretty good all around.

foxeng:
Actually, a hybrid combiner combines two or more multiplexed amplifiers (usually IOTs) into a single transmission line. It can be either an analog or digital transmitter. The whole basis for hybrid couplers is to combine (or split) two EQUAL (in phase) signals. Most modern ANALOG tube type transmitters multiplex the aural and visual signals at a low level in the exciter and use a "Magic-T" to combine. The mask filter in a digital transmitter is located after the combiner but before the station load/antenna switch. An analog transmitter uses a low-pass-filter (LPF) or "Channel Filter" in its place.

I take exception to your statement "and you can't use a analog hybrid combiner in digital service, completely wrong type of filter." To the best of my knowledge, there is no difference between the two at that stage in the RF chain. Although a hybrid combiner is frequency dependent to a certain extent, it is not modulation dependent. It's a four-port device that is looking for two equal signals at the input; frequency, phase, power, etc. And, it's not a filter; it's a combiner.

The older analog klystron tube transmitters used what is called a diplexer (not to be confused with a duplexer) to combine individual visual and aural tubes at a high level. Klystrons are not linear enough at high power levels and 6 MHz bandwidth to multiplex although, some newer solid-state exciters had provision to multiplex the visual signal with aural in an emergency.

Trip:
An exciter in a TV broadcast transmitter ( analog or digital) is where life starts. The channel or frequency oscillator, modulator and filtering (comb filters, etc) and initial amplification is here. Almost all correction is done in the exciter. It's, probably, the smallest part of a transmitter (in physical size).

foxeng & Trip:

The mask filter is close to what foxeng describes but it has been said that the mask filter compares, somewhat, to the catalytic converter on a car. If the engine is tuned perfectly there is no need for the catalytic converter; it just ensures that the engine always meets EPA emission standards.

The mask filter on the other hand does add to the filtering. Most of the channel shaping though, is done by the comb filter in the exciter, the correction circuits in the exciter and the IOT tuning (if tube type).

Trip:
I hope this confuses you enough to want to explore it more on your own. All the TV transmitter and filter manufacturer websites have a wealth of information and a "Goggle" search will give you tens-of-thousands of hits. (You don't have to believe a word I said. ;))

foxeng:
Actually, a hybrid combiner combines two or more multiplexed amplifiers (usually IOTs) into a single transmission line. It can be either an analog or digital transmitter. The whole basis for hybrid couplers is to combine (or split) two EQUAL (in phase) signals. Most modern ANALOG tube type transmitters multiplex the aural and visual signals at a low level in the exciter and use a "Magic-T" to combine. The mask filter in a digital transmitter is located after the combiner but before the station load/antenna switch. An analog transmitter uses a low-pass-filter (LPF) or "Channel Filter" in its place.

I am fully aware of what is in a hybrid combiner, I have two of them, both on VHF high and have used them with tubes and solid state. I decided to just hit the layman's terms and not get under the hood of it all.

I take exception to your statement "and you can't use a analog hybrid combiner in digital service, completely wrong type of filter." To the best of my knowledge, there is no difference between the two at that stage in the RF chain. Although a hybrid combiner is frequency dependent to a certain extent, it is not modulation dependent. It's a four-port device that is looking for two equal signals at the input; frequency, phase, power, etc. And, it's not a filter; it's a combiner.

Sure, you can use a hybrid combiner in digital service, but you still will need a mask filter on the end. Why use both when you only need one?

The older analog klystron tube transmitters used what is called a diplexer (not to be confused with a duplexer) to combine individual visual and aural tubes at a high level. Klystrons are not linear enough at high power levels and 6 MHz bandwidth to multiplex although, some newer solid-state exciters had provision to multiplex the visual signal with aural in an emergency.

While true, again I decided to not get so technical. You have to know your audience.

foxeng & Trip:

The mask filter is close to what foxeng describes but it has been said that the mask filter compares, somewhat, to the catalytic converter on a car. If the engine is tuned perfectly there is no need for the catalytic converter; it just ensures that the engine always meets EPA emission standards.

The mask filter on the other hand does add to the filtering. Most of the channel shaping though, is done by the comb filter in the exciter, the correction circuits in the exciter and the IOT tuning (if tube type).

All of those circuits are prone to drift. I would rather have the piece of mind knowing the mask filter is there to make sure my transmitter is in tolerance.

I see that the form 387 filings were posted last night for another 10 stations and 1 amendment. A search for 387s accepted for filings returns a count of 1792 records, so we are close to having all stations submit and post their 387 transition plans.

Doing a spot check of several of the new submissions, WBXX CW 20 in TN writes "WBXX WILL BE MAKEING A SWITCH BACK TO THE ANALOG CHANNEL FOR ITS FINAL RESTING PLACE ON DIGITAL". Final Resting Place? Really, is that the phrase you want to use? Sounds like WBXX is planning to hold a funeral next February 17. :D [A spell checker on their submission would help too].

I am fully aware of what is in a hybrid combiner, I have two of them, both on VHF high and have used them with tubes and solid state. I decided to just hit the layman's terms and not get under the hood of it all. (1)

Sure, you can use a hybrid combiner in digital service, but you still will need a mask filter on the end. Why use both when you only need one? (2)

While true, again I decided to not get so technical. You have to know your audience. (3)

All of those circuits are prone to drift. I would rather have the piece of mind knowing the mask filter is there to make sure my transmitter is in tolerance. (4)

(1) Let me state it more simply: A combiner is NOT a filter. They perform two different functions.

(2) Because you need both - see (1) above.

(3) Absolutely - but don't misinform the audience.

(4) Exactly my point.

I ran across this baffling exhibit for KSHB (Kansas City, MO).

http://fjallfoss.fcc.gov/prod/cdbs/forms/prod/getattachment_exh.cgi?exhibit_id=618808

It makes reference to a KCMI on the same tower, to operate on 41 after the transition. I can find no record of such a station in the FCC database or on Wikipedia. A Google search has yielded some indirect references, but nothing conclusive. Does KCMI exist?

Edit: It looks like a typo. On Trip's site, I see it is "KMCI," but I had KMCI in another DMA (Topeka, KS). I will fix that.

It looks like they meant to say KMCI, which is licensed to Lawrence, KS but has its transmitter in Kansas City. Lawrence is within the contour of stations in both the K.C. and Topeka markets, but KMCI is definitely K.C.

FYI... I've updated my Digital Channel list for the San Francisco Bay Area, Sacramento and Monterey, adding the transition info. I also re-sorted it by PSIP channel number rather than by the digital transmitter channel number. Lots of people said they knew the PSIP but didn't know the transmitter channel, so this might work better.

You can check it out at: http://www.choisser.com/sfonair.html

Larry
SF

Does anyone know what the status is with the coupons? I signed up in the first day or two, and my mom's coming to get me tomorrow... I was hoping they'd have arrived by then so I could pick up a box on the way home for the kitchen TV. The site only says that my coupons have shipped, but doesn't give a date of when they shipped.

As far as my page is concerned, I added the new stations (KEFB, WJFB, WZVI, KVAW), and the four revised Fox filings that require links to be changed will be added soon. Most of the stress is off me now regarding school, but I'm feeling like taking a break from working on my page. Maybe this evening or tomorrow I'll get back to working on it full time.

I need to do the other half of the list as far as facilities and redoing the links, and then I need to start sifting through the CP applications before those get too backlogged for me to catch up on.

- Trip

Trip,

FWIW, that's the first one I have heard of that has been mailed, but I haven't had a chance to read many threads the past few days ....

Also I was in the 500K's (on day 2 if I recall correctly), just looked and the status check still says same thing it has since I've been checking it the past couple of weeks :

"Your application was recently approved and we are currently preparing to mail your coupons. "

Maybe there aren't many of them in stock in local stores, yet though, don't know ... right now, If I do get the coupons soon from the reports I've read, I'll probably go with the Zenith/Insignia boxes ...

Some comments while reviewing the 387s for KY and AL to help Falcon_77 with his spreadsheet.

WYLE 26 in Huntsville, AL. Their 387 is a tale of woe. Mom and pop operation, lost their Jewelry broadcast contract, Co-owner and chief engineer died, due to financial crisis analog went dark in early 2007, spent a year looking for a buyer, and so on. Appears they have a buyer (WHDF), so the station may come back as a DT only station.

WAKA CBS 8 in Montgomery, AL DMA, pre-DT 55, post-DT 42. This is the most complex conversion plan I think I have seen yet with the analog going dark on 11/28/08, then new DT 42 antenna installed, followed by low power 42 kW operation on DT 42 in January, while powering down DT 55 in steps to convert transmitter hardware. Finally get to full DT 42 ERP on March 19, 2009. See http://fjallfoss.fcc.gov/prod/cdbs/forms/prod/getattachment_exh.cgi?exhibit_id=619376 for the day by day details.

Lexington, KY DMA. I don't know if this was discussed before, but all of the analog stations in Lexington are on UHF. But four of the stations are digitally broadcasting on VHF, with WDKY Fox 56 on VHF 4. All of the stations in Lexington are on their post-transition DT channel. So the people who are knowledgeable such as avsforum members have put up full VHF/UHF antennas. But if the analog local stations have long all been UHF, there are likely many OTA viewers who have put up UHF only antennas or indoor loops or bowties. They get their converter box and don't understand why they can't get CBS or Fox OTA anymore. Someone will have to explain to them why a Fox 56 station is really on VHF 4 and what that means for the antenna. I can see the sales guy at Best Buy explaining the problem now... :eek:

Maybe there should have been a rule that in a market with all upper VHF and UHF stations, that no upper VHF or UHF station could pick a low VHF channel? I know this is something the FCC doesn't normally get into, but would have made for a smoother transition process for those markets.

Lexington, KY DMA. I don't know if this was discussed before, but all of the analog stations in Lexington are on UHF. But four of the stations are digitally broadcasting on VHF, with WDKY Fox 56 on VHF 4. All of the stations in Lexington are on their post-transition DT channel. So the people who are knowledgeable such as avsforum members have put up full VHF/UHF antennas. But if the analog local stations have long all been UHF, there are likely many OTA viewers who have put up UHF only antennas or indoor loops or bowties. They get their converter box and don't understand why they can't get CBS or Fox OTA anymore. Someone will have to explain to them why a Fox 56 station is really on VHF 4 and what that means for the antenna. I can see the sales guy at Best Buy explaining the problem now... :eek:

Maybe there should have been a rule that in a market with all upper VHF and UHF stations, that no upper VHF or UHF station could pick a low VHF channel? I know this is something the FCC doesn't normally get into, but would have made for a smoother transition process for those markets.

WDKY tried to get moved to DT-22 at one point...

- Trip

Hey gang,

I got two pretty red-colored gift cards, er, DTV coupons in the mail today. I applied in the afternoon on New Year's Day. They expire May 23.

Hey gang,

I got two pretty red-colored gift cards, er, DTV coupons in the mail today. I applied in the afternoon on New Year's Day. They expire May 23.

Well, mine's #2,117,xxx. I guess I'll get my coupons in time for when the CECB's have inflatable sex droids bundled with them...

My web page is now updated all the way to Market #100. I also made a page for the DTS that KTDO in Las Cruces/El Paso has applied for.

- Trip

Lexington, KY DMA. I don't know if this was discussed before, but all of the analog stations in Lexington are on UHF. But four of the stations are digitally broadcasting on VHF, with WDKY Fox 56 on VHF 4. All of the stations in Lexington are on their post-transition DT channel. So the people who are knowledgeable such as avsforum members have put up full VHF/UHF antennas. But if the analog local stations have long all been UHF, there are likely many OTA viewers who have put up UHF only antennas or indoor loops or bowties. They get their converter box and don't understand why they can't get CBS or Fox OTA anymore. Someone will have to explain to them why a Fox 56 station is really on VHF 4 and what that means for the antenna. I can see the sales guy at Best Buy explaining the problem now... :eek:

Maybe there should have been a rule that in a market with all upper VHF and UHF stations, that no upper VHF or UHF station could pick a low VHF channel? I know this is something the FCC doesn't normally get into, but would have made for a smoother transition process for those markets.

I remember discussing this station with someone local to the area who was happy to have WDKY on 4, but he was in the hills. I hadn't noticed that all the analog stations were on UHF there. This could certainly be a problem. Even the upper VHF stations could present a problem for those unprepared for the change. However, I'm wondering if combo antennas were frequently used there despite being UHF only.

The top 53 DMA's currently all have analog VHF signals. The largest not to, #54, is Scranton, PA, which, incidentally, has upper VHF DTV channels and they will continue for post-transition operations. Right behind it, Fresno, CA (at #55) is in the same boat.

Alright, my page is now complete up through Market #150. I made a DTS page for KYES.

KYES is an interesting case (but isn't it always?). KYES wants to do a number of things:

They want to operate a DTS on channel 5, using four transmitters to cover four heavily-populated areas.
They want to operate DT-22 from a mountaintop with HAAT of 4280' to cover areas that don't currently receive any TV service from Anchorage.
They want a waiver of FCC rules about expanding coverage, due to the lack of stations in Alaska and the fact that they currently have the largest coverage of any Anchorage TV station.

There might have been more, but that is what looked relevant to me.

- Trip

At almost 255KB, I believe my web page is now complete!

http://www.rabbitears.info/dtr.php?

Every link has been replaced, all known facilities have been added.

I also added all three licensed Class A digital stations. (Two are in Norfolk, one's in the Gainesville DMA) I'm debating whether or not to try to add some LPTV stations. Thoughts?

- Trip

KAZT-CA 27 in Phoenix flash-cut to digital in January due to interference concerns from an adjacent DTV broadcast on 26. They're still running on an STA since I don't think the FCC has granted a license to any Class A stations flash cutting, but they still ought to be in the list since they have completed the conversion.

KAZT-CA 27 in Phoenix flash-cut to digital in January due to interference concerns from an adjacent DTV broadcast on 26. They're still running on an STA since I don't think the FCC has granted a license to any Class A stations flash cutting, but they still ought to be in the list since they have completed the conversion.

Interestingly, it IS listed on the FCC site, but as an analog station. I wonder if there was a mistake in the paperwork.

- Trip

The spreadsheet now has all states updated through 2/24/08, with the exception of CA and CT. PR also remains to be completed. With any luck I will get these done by tomorrow. Then I can get up to speed with any filings done after the 24th.

I want to thank afiggatt again for helping me with many of the Eastern DMA's and states.

While doing the CO entries, it seemed like I took a crash course on the Lookout Mountain Tower project in the Denver DMA. While 4+ stations will be using it (CBS, ABC, NBC and MyN, plus at least 1 other on a lease), FOX and CW will be holding out on their own towers. More info can be found at:

http://www.hdtvcolorado.com/index.htm

Interestingly, it IS listed on the FCC site, but as an analog station. I wonder if there was a mistake in the paperwork.

- Trip

Maybe, they are also mapping to 7.1 and Tivo tells me because they are not using the virtual channel the FCC assigned them they are unable to provide guide data.

edit: looks like they have a STA http://fjallfoss.fcc.gov/cgi-bin/ws.exe/prod/cdbs/forms/prod/cdbsmenu.hts?context=25&appn=101234157&formid=911&fac_num=72618

The spreadsheet has been updated to include the Form 387 filings through 2/29/08. So it is essentially done for the moment, though I plan to make updates and corrections as needed. If anyone finds something that needs to be corrected, please send me a PM.

I am keeping the updates on the old post (see my signature below), as it is linked from the first post of this thread as well.

Thank you,

This may be slightly off-topic, but worth reading:

Today, the FCC published on its web site (http://www.fcc.gov) some back-and-forth between Commissioner Michael Copps and Chairman Kevin Martin concerning the DT transition.

In his letter (http://hraunfoss.fcc.gov/edocs_public/attachmatch/DOC-280589A1.pdf), Copps told the chairman that his "strong first preference" would have been "to actually switch a small number of markets to all-digital service before the national transition date" as a field test. But failing that, he suggested more limited field tests in which individual households agree to switch to digital early and provide their insight into the issues consumers will face.

In response (http://hraunfoss.fcc.gov/edocs_public/attachmatch/DOC-280582A1.pdf), Martin said he would ask the DTV Task Force and "industry stakeholders" to explore some of these testing initiatives.

Both admit that switching an entire market early would be a challenge, though more limited household testing is a possibility.

Also today the FCC released its DTV consumer education order (order (http://hraunfoss.fcc.gov/edocs_public/attachmatch/FCC-08-56A1.pdf)) (press release (http://hraunfoss.fcc.gov/edocs_public/attachmatch/DOC-280586A1.pdf)) which will require stepped-up education efforts from broadcasters, multichannel providers (i.e. cable, sat and FIOS), TV manufacturers, 700 MHz auction winners, and telecommunications companies who participate in the Low Income Federal Universal Service Program.

Lots of people have "switched to digital early". I'm sure many of us here never watch OTA analog signals anymore. I know I don't.

Got a Zenith DTT900 today, and I've already faced a show-stopper issue, it's called a low-VHF digital.

Outside of that, the thing is great and is superior to every other tuner I've tried. Which is to say, nothing since the 5th gen LG chip in a computer-based tuner, so...

- Trip

Does anyone have an idea of when we'll start seeing some action taken by the FCC on the Form 387 Plans, i.e, granted, dismissed, etc.?

Got a Zenith DTT900 today, and I've already faced a show-stopper issue, it's called a low-VHF digital.

So, it was of no help with WBRA? Well, I suppose background noise just can't be solved by newer chips like multi-path can.

Does anyone have an idea of when we'll start seeing some action taken by the FCC on the Form 387 Plans, i.e, granted, dismissed, etc.?

There is nothing to grant or deny with the 387. It is strickly an update on what stations are planning to do. When stations file for post transition CP's (also known as FCC Form 301, FCC Form 302s are for License to Cover after construction is complete), that is when the FCC can approve or deny. Those are due by the 17th of March for stations who want quick turnaround.

Stations who do not have post transition facilities ready by August will again have to file where they are in the process. Any station deviating drastically from the Feb 387 filing must update their filing when it becomes clear of a change and that could be as soon as the FCC adjudicates stations 301s.

Got a Zenith DTT900 today, and I've already faced a show-stopper issue, it's called a low-VHF digital.

WBRA-DT has something going on. I know several people here who have lost WBRA-DT in the last few weeks so it more than likely isn't you.

Well, I mean, it helped to the extent that it decodes more than it does on any other tuner I have. My WinTV-D shows only a black screen at the same time the older Zenith shows an extremely pixelated garbled mess, at the same time that the DTT900 is showing the picture with pixelization but well enough to tell what's going on (auto-mute keeps the garbled sound from coming through though).

Basically, without any atmospheric enhancement, my WinTV-D sits at 14dB when it needs 15.5dB to start decoding and 17.5dB to be stable (on UHF it's 16.3, but WBRA keeps breaking up at that number). The Zenith HDV420 sits right on the 33% mark with no enhancement, which means it's right on the brink of decoding, but as with the WinTV-D, it requires more signal than the UHFs to decode cleanly. The DTT900 is showing a picture, my dad was able to look at 15-1 last night and say "Oh my God it's Motorweek!" It was clean enough for him to tell, but still breaking up too much to watch.

I've never had much luck with WBRA-DT and this tuner has actually given me the best results so far. That's why I'm so impressed with it.

It also turns out that WSET seems to not be transmitting any guide data.

- Trip

In their 387 filing, they've told the FCC that they'll be using a 5.6GHz unlicensed link to a new transmitter site. Is this common practice for stations to do this?

It's not common, but it works fine. WNYA in Pittsfield, MA has been doing it since they went on the air in 2003. Their STL is two hops.

I have been reviewing the latest version of the DTV analysis spreadsheet posted by Falcon_77 now that we have filled a summary of the transition plans for almost all stations. A lot to analyze. One thing that I found interesting, if I have counted them correctly, is that there are now 35 full power stations which are digital only. More than I expected. Also, quite a lot of stations who want corrections to the Appendix B allotments or want to stay with the DTV ERP, height, antenna they have rather than match Appendix B while some who want to increase their power & coverage under the 5 mile rule. It will be interesting to see how that works out given the short time frame left.

Meanwhile we have a FCC commissioner who wants to do "limited field testing" for some households to get digital tuners early. I could see some trials with some analog only households who are not up on the technology might be useful in clarifying how to help people with the conversion process. But how about we email the FCC the links to the avsforum Local Reception and Reception Hardware forums. A lot of us here have been "testing" digital OTA reception for years. The commisioner does know that stations have been broadcasting digitally for up to 10 years, right? :rolleyes:

... we have a FCC commissioner who wants to do "limited field testing" for some households to get digital tuners early. I could see some trials with some analog only households who are not up on the technology might be useful in clarifying how to help people with the conversion process. But how about we email the FCC the links to the avsforum Local Reception and Reception Hardware forums. A lot of us here have been "testing" digital OTA reception for years. The commisioner does know that stations have been broadcasting digitally for up to 10 years, right? :rolleyes:

I, too, was surprised to read that information about them wanting to do testing. What do they need to do testing for? The AVS HDTV area has just about every possible situation covered already... many times over for most of them. I think the FCC really ought to be introduced to those two sections you mentioned. I think the commissioners know that people have been watching digital TV for almost 10 years now... they probably just don't know that we all talk about it so much!

Larry
SF

The commisioner does know that stations have been broadcasting digitally for up to 10 years, right? :rolleyes:

Doesn't matter what the facts on the ground are. It is all purely political at this point in time. Everyone in DC is running for cover in case this blows up instead of working to make it come out right. They all play politics (rumor has it Martin, who is from North Carolina is angling to run for NC governor when he leaves the FCC). Copps (a Dem) is the worst one for playing politics and is behind this idea. Even though I am behind this idea, it is about 5 years too late and can't work now. Not enough time to pull it off.

I know ONE candidate I won't be voting for, then....

Well, I think I've found myself a new project to work on. Though this isn't the place to post it (Private Messages would be nice though), I've begun work on a new page here:

http://www.rabbitears.info/subchannels.php

If you check the source code, you'll see I'm crediting people in comments there, since I'm just trying to throw something together. I figure that even if I can't do anything with my main site, I can still have some informative things for people to look at.

If you find any errors in things I've already done, or have additional data for me to add, please send me a Private Message and I will incorporate it as fast as I'm able.

Thanks all!

- Trip

P.S. My parents bought another DTT900 today.

http://www.rabbitears.info/subchannels.php

If you find any errors in things I've already done, or have additional data for me to add, please send me a Private Message and I will incorporate it as fast as I'm able.

I e-mailed you a list of Nashville, TN and Bowling Green, KY subchannels.

NashDigie signing off.

http://broadcastengineering.com/RF/martin_agrees_copp_request_0306/

As others have noted, why don't they visit this site to see some real world results? I also don't know what trials can possibly be arranged for at this point. Would some areas have to end analog before 2/17/09 or are they positioning to push back the transition?

Edit: This is the same as the above noted response isn't it? Nothing new then.

First thing the FCC has to do if they want to "limited" field testing is to find a market ready to go and switch them. You guys keeping up with the status, any market like that?

But NOOOO. The FCC wants to go to HOMES that volunteer and see what happens in markets still operating in analog and digital. Now THAT is a waste. We already KNOW what that is. Until you get a full market to switch off analog, you CAN'T do the kind of testing Copps wants and the public backlash will be UNBELIEVEABLE if they do something like that this close to the deadline WITHOUT giving the public plenty of notice to get ready. The UK, IMIHO, has done their transition better than we have.

Just more politics if this thing goes down the tubes. Who really cares about the viewing public?

First thing the FCC has to do if they want to "limited" field testing is to find a market ready to go and switch them. You guys keeping up with the status, any market like that?

But NOOOO. The FCC wants to go to HOMES that volunteer and see what happens in markets still operating in analog and digital. Now THAT is a waste. We already KNOW what that is. Until you get a full market to switch off analog, you CAN'T do the kind of testing Copps wants and the public backlash will be UNBELIEVEABLE if they do something like that this close to the deadline WITHOUT giving the public plenty of notice to get ready. The UK, IMIHO, has done their transition better than we have.

Just more politics if this thing goes down the tubes. Who really cares about the viewing public?

Reading the article, the only way I can interpret it is that Copps believes that there isn't one single digital television receiver out there. It truly reads like he thinks that 100% of television stations are going to do what we call a "flash-cut" on Feb. 17, 2009 and that until then, there will be no digital TV transmission or reception going on anywhere in the US.

Here are some example quotes that read like this:

This one implies that he believes no household has installed a digital television receiver yet:

Copps said at a minimum limited DTV field testing should be conducted with individual, volunteer households that switch early to digital reception in an effort to “provide critical insights into many of the issues that consumers will face.


Same with this quote:

In his letter, Copps expressed concern about several issues, including DTV reception, the need for some viewers to replace antennas, cable and satellite passthrough of DTV signals, installation of home DTV equipment, how DTV closed-captioning and V-chip functionality performs, and consumer reaction to digital television.


This one almost implies that he believes there is currently no digital transmission, and no testing of digital signal propagation has been conducted:

Copps advised that the best way to resolve the matter would be through field trials “in markets with various topographies, at various distances, and with various home antenna options.”


Do some of us need to write a letter to clue the man in? The "tests" he wants to perform have all been done! At least they have informally! The "tests" could largely consist of asking people who've already "gone digital"
to fill out a survey about their experience. Ask us questions about how difficult it was to set up the antenna to get a reliable signal, etc.

Now, you all must excuse me as I go off to let my mind boggle at the FCC chairman's ignorance of the actual state of digital television. :eek:

Reading the article, the only way I can interpret it is that Copps believes that there isn't one single digital television receiver out there. It truly reads like he thinks that 100% of television stations are going to do what we call a "flash-cut" on Feb. 17, 2009 and that until then, there will be no digital TV transmission or reception going on anywhere in the US.


I agree. One of the main problems I see with the "transition" is that it is rarely mentioned that DTV is already widely available. Quite a few improvements will be made over the summer and other changes will be made, but we essentially already have the system in place.

Does Commissioner Copps believe that the US is like Whitehaven in the UK, which only had analog signals one day and only digital signals the next?* Note that most areas of the UK have both analog and digital TV, albeit at reduced power.

Let me see if there are any realistic candidates in the DMA list for an early end to analog operations as a "trial." They would need to have low population and a low rate of OTA use.

Edit: *Actually, if memory serves me correctly, they turned off 1 analog channel 30 days early to put 1 digital Mux on it and then did the rest in November '07. So they had a 30 day "window" so to speak.

Let me see if there are any realistic candidates in the DMA list for an early end to analog operations as a "trial." They would need to have low population and a low rate of OTA use.

I don't think the low population area approach will work very well. Many of the stations in such DMA's simply aren't ready, or there are just too few stations available.

It would probably need to be a larger DMA, one that is currently fully transitioned or at least operating on the post-transition channels, with a mixture of VHF and UHF stations. According to the Form 387 filings, these are:

Columbus, OH (DMA #33 - 12% OTA - 1.7M people in metro area)
Lexington, KY (DMA #64 - 8% OTA - 429k metro)
Madison, WI (DMA #85 - 18% OTA - 543k metro)

Columbus is 12% OTA and the metro population exceeds 1.5M people, so I don't think it's doable.

The presence of a Low VHF station for Lexington (WDKY) would add more perspective, but the fact that the DMA is currently all UHF for analog could make it a real snake pit.

For Madison, WISC is not on its final facility, but appears to be operating on its post-transition channel of 50 at sufficient strength to be a useful test. However, at 18% OTA, it would be tough.

Pick your choice, Commissioner Copps. :eek:

I agree. One of the main problems I see with the "transition" is that it is rarely mentioned that DTV is already widely available. Quite a few improvements will be made over the summer and other changes will be made, but we essentially already have the system in place.
+1. This is one thing that often bugs me about mainstream press news articles on the digital transition. They frequently fail to mention that stations are already broadcasting with digital channels. They leave the impression that there will be this magic conversion to digital broadcasting on February 17, 2009. The FCC commissioners know better - one would hope. They could help with the transition process by emphasizing in interviews and public hearings that most full power stations are broadcasting a full power digital signal.

The idea of a early conversion of a test market is not a bad one. But it is way late in the game to be bringing this up now. If they wanted to be prepared for a smoother transition, Congress should have given the FCC and the broadcast stations more time and called for phased process. The FCC commissioners are focused entirely on political CYA against angry consumers at this point. I read Chairman Martin's agreement to look into field trials as a political cover for an effort that won't really go anywhere.

Let me see if there are any realistic candidates in the DMA list for an early end to analog operations as a "trial." They would need to have low population and a low rate of OTA use.
For an early shutdown, you need a market out of the top 30 DMAs where most of the stations are already at their final DTV channel & coverage. There could be 1 or 2 stations that have to do a flash cut, but only stations that only have to modify their transmitters for digital broadcast. No antenna replacement or mods or tower work. Those stations could probably speed up the flash cut if they had to.

But there are political considerations as well. The trial DMA can not be in the district of a powerful Congressman or the state of a Senator who sits on the key committees who might oppose the FCC taking away analog TV early from his or her constituents.

Richmond, VA is a possibility (if you ignore the political considerations).

I don't know if anyone has been following up on the 387 filings, but a number of stations have submitted form 301s for changes to the post-transition DTV allotments set in the Appendix document. If I read it correctly, a number of filings have already been granted, which means the FCC is processing these quickly. If you want to look them up, select Service: Digital TV, Form Number: 301, and enter a start date of 02/10/2008 or so at http://fjallfoss.fcc.gov/prod/cdbs/pubacc/prod/app_sear.htm. The start date of Feb 10 gets me 100 applications as of today.

Two stations of interest to me in the Baltimore-Washington markets.

WMAR 2 wants to increase their appendix B power on UHF 38 to 1000 kW for increased coverage. Interesting map in their attachment that shows that even with a 1000 kW UHF 38 signal, that the projected coverage of the digital signal is less than their current analog VHF 2 signal. I suspect people can make that up with good long range UHF antennas such as the CM 4228 or AD 91-XG, but we shall see how that goes. See http://fjallfoss.fcc.gov/prod/cdbs/forms/prod/getattachment_exh.cgi?exhibit_id=620736.

WUSA 9 in DC wants to DECREASE their appendix B ERP on VHF 9 from 17 to 9.55 kW & HAAT and go for a smaller coverage area. This is not going to go over well with the football fans out in the fringes who rely on WUSA-DT's signal for their CBS football in HD. See http://fjallfoss.fcc.gov/prod/cdbs/forms/prod/getattachment_exh.cgi?exhibit_id=623397. I should be ok, but can someone who lives in the outer band of the coverage area that now falls outside the official coverage B zone write a protest to the FCC? Or does the FCC figure that it's WUSA's decision so long as it does not create interference issues with other stations?

I think WUSA just doesn't want to run that goofy directional pattern the FCC gave them. I think that after the transition, the FCC will start allowing stations to boost power more. We'll see what happens.

- Trip

The folks at the FCC have been nearly as busy as Trip and Falcon_77. Today they released the MO&O (http://hraunfoss.fcc.gov/edocs_public/attachmatch/FCC-08-72A1.pdf) (135 scintillating pages) and the final DTV Table of Allotments (http://hraunfoss.fcc.gov/edocs_public/attachmatch/FCC-08-72A2.pdf).
From my read, they are taking quick action on many of the requests filed in conjunction with the 387s.
Happy reading! :)