At this point - I wouldn't blame any station that had an expensive repair to make on analog to just make the decision to leave it of and proceed with post transition DTV plans. It just doesn't make alot of economic sense to do so...

I suppose the equation would have to figure cost of repair + operational costs vs. lost revenue from analog being down - if revenue is larger - then repair (maybe).

Any input from you pros in the field ?

I saw a KASW ad about a DTV test a couple weeks ago and watched it for the heck of it and the odd thing to me was they did not display any notice on the HD channel at all. If you tuned in for the test on cable or DTV you might think they forgot about it. I don't know why stations are being forced to run crawls on their digital channels, to me it is just confusing people. We have a CA station that flash cut and is only available in digital running the crawls.

The other thing they did is was run the test over the last segment of the show they were running. Too bad if you were watching it I guess.

Well, 2-1/2 years later we are still waiting. Go figure??

If I read that right, that means you haven't been on the air for 2.5 years?

The New Orleans DMA did a digital test about a week ago. All full power stations, every single one, at precisely 6:59 PM central (to catch people tuning in for prime time) simultaneously put up a slide with a big red 'X' on their analog channel with the wording, "FAIL! Your television is not ready for the transition to digital." On their digital channel, they put up a slide with a big green check mark and the wording, "PASS! Your television is ready for the transition to digital."

The local Madison DMA test, last wednesday, was for 1/2 hour. The PASS was that you didn't see the crawl and was able to watch HDTV programming normally, or your satellite/cable supplied channel. The analog channel had the primetime programming shrunk down and a crawl saything it was a test and to call a local hot line if there were questions. The hotline was manned from 7-9pm. It seems that not all of the local cable OTA channels were getting the HD feed for the SD and those non-converted viewers failed, when they actually didn't.

If you want to see what each of the stations had, head on over to the local Madison thread and there will be a link for the video and a link to a still where one o the stations goofed the crawl.

No one minute or less of a test here. By doing it in primetime, they got your attention.

I saw a KASW ad about a DTV test a couple weeks ago and watched it for the heck of it and the odd thing to me was they did not display any notice on the HD channel at all.

That is because if you are already watching DTV or satellite/cable, then you pass the test. It was for analog viewers, since they are the ones that will lose the channels if they don't get equiped for DTV.

KAZT-CA repeats KAZT-TV, which is currently an analog on 7 and digital on 25 in Prescott. Since it's a direct repeat of the programming on that station, they have to show it.

- Trip

Did KASW run a scroll on analog and continue normal programming, or did they completely replace the show on analog with a failed message? If the former, remember that the analog channel has been a downconvert of the HD feed for a while now, so displaying a "Pass" message on HD would have shown it on analog too, and that would have been really confusing.

At this point - I wouldn't blame any station that had an expensive repair to make on analog to just make the decision to leave it of and proceed with post transition DTV plans. It just doesn't make alot of economic sense to do so...
Presumably there will be a few more stations which will go dark on analog prematurely. As they get closer to the analog shutdown, even modest equipment failures may not be worth repairing depending on the possible lost remaining analog OTA viewers vs cost of repair. It would ironic if one of the night-light stations has the analog transmitter fail 2 days after the "night-light" period starts. Do they tell FCC oops, no night-light in this market? (assuming the concept is 1 station in a market).

That is because if you are already watching DTV or satellite/cable, then you pass the test. It was for analog viewers, since they are the ones that will lose the channels if they don't get equiped for DTV.
Except for the satellite/cable systems that are still getting the SD channels from the analog source. Even on Verizon Fios, 3 SD local stations "failed" a 2 minute analog shutoff test in the Washington market last night - WFDC Univision 14, WMPT PBS (Maryland Public TV) 22 and WETA PBS 26. Yes, Verizon is all digital, but they are obviously still using the analog broadcast for these 3 stations. Verizon has the HD channels for MPT-DT and WETA-DT, so they have to hook up the down-converters for those 2 for the SD channels. Guess Verizon has not gotten the WFDC-DT signal yet. All the cable and sat companies have 62 more days - no sweat, right?

I don't know why stations are being forced to run crawls on their digital channels, to me it is just confusing people.

Because the FCC requires it and it has to be documented as well. Every DTV spot you see is documented and reported to the FCC quarterly and that report has to be posted on the stations website for public viewing.

Presumably there will be a few more stations which will go dark on analog prematurely. As they get closer to the analog shutdown, even modest equipment failures may not be worth repairing depending on the possible lost remaining analog OTA viewers vs cost of repair. It would ironic if one of the night-light stations has the analog transmitter fail 2 days after the "night-light" period starts. Do they tell FCC oops, no night-light in this market? (assuming the concept is 1 station in a market).

It wont be a mandated thing...it is optional for a station to do so.

A better non-electric non-kool-Aid DTV test for WFXT seems to have been the Ice Storm,
where ATSC&QAM DTV passes the test and NTSC fails!

POST-TRANSITION DTV TABLE OF ALLOTMENTS, 47 C.F.R. 73.622(I), HUNTSVILLE, ALABAMA. Changed station WHNT-DT's DTV channel from 19 to 46. (Dkt No. 08-194, RM-11488). Action by: Chief, Video Division, Media Bureau. Adopted: 12/15/2008 by R&O. (DA No. 08-2718).

POST-TRANSITION DTV TABLE OF ALLOTMENTS, 47 C.F.R. 73.622(I), SUPERIOR, NEBRASKA. Changed station KSNB-DT's DTV channel from 34 to 4. Proceeding Terminated. (Dkt No. RM-11496, 08-209). Action by: Chief, Video Division, Media Bureau. Adopted: 12/16/2008 by R&O. (DA No. 08-2720).

POST-TRANSITION DTV TABLE OF ALLOTMENTS, 47 C.F.R. 73.622(I), CLOVIS, NEW MEXICO. Proposed change of station KVIH-DT's DTV channel from 20 to 12. Comments Due: 15 days after date of publication in the Federal Register. Reply Comments Due: 25 days after date of publication in the Federal Register. (Dkt No. 08-132, RM-11464). Action by: Chief, Video Division, Media Bureau. Adopted: 12/16/2008 by NPRM. (DA No. 08-2719).

I was just coming to post that! :p

- Trip

4.4kW on 4 should be "interesting," especially in light of our discussions on the Lexington thread. However, it should be better than 0.534kW on 34.

Perhaps they will apply for more power. I don't know how "final" the R&O values are.

If I read that right, that means you haven't been on the air for 2.5 years?

You are an astute reader. ;)

Did KASW run a scroll on analog and continue normal programming, or did they completely replace the show on analog with a failed message? If the former, remember that the analog channel has been a downconvert of the HD feed for a while now, so displaying a "Pass" message on HD would have shown it on analog too, and that would have been really confusing.

They played maybe a 60 second video with audio saying you only have a few weeks to get a converter and they looped probably about five minutes and rejoined at the next commercial break. A couple stations played the same video today.

Because the FCC requires it and it has to be documented as well. Every DTV spot you see is documented and reported to the FCC quarterly and that report has to be posted on the stations website for public viewing.

I understand that, I just don't think it makes sense to require they play it on the digital side.

You are an astute reader. ;)

Now that we have that determination accomplished, even I am at a loss as to how the station can still exist, without any income. Is the station only available via cable and DBS?

Even though I shouldn't, I find it amazing that the FCC didn't have this taken care of soon after the paperwork was submitted.

Our tax $$$ at work.

Every DTV spot you see is documented and reported to the FCC quarterly and that report has to be posted on the stations website for public viewing.

Really? I wonder where the local stations have buried that info. I certainly do not remember seeing it on the station's site that I visit most often.

I'll have to look and find said report.

Now that we have that determination accomplished, even I am at a loss as to how the station can still exist, without any income. Is the station only available via cable and DBS?

Even though I shouldn't, I find it amazing that the FCC didn't have this taken care of soon after the paperwork was submitted.

Our tax $$$ at work.

WEDY-DT is a part of a 4-station network of PBS stations in Connecticut. It would, if on the air, repeat 100% of the programming of WEDH-DT in Hartford.

- Trip

WEDY-DT is a part of a 4-station network of PBS stations in Connecticut. It would, if on the air, repeat 100% of the programming of WEDH-DT in Hartford.

Ah, OK, it was that group of stations that was discussed earlier.

Still sucks that the FCC, as usual, can't get their crap together, when they need to. They approve that stupid system to use whitespace, yet can't get a legit station back on the air.

During the two minute DTV tests at 7:28 tonight here in San Francisco I recorded two SD stations off of Dish Network and one station OTA, and I turned on the old analog TV and ran through the channels while the test was on, plus I had a chance to check a few of the digital channels before it was over. Here's what I found.

Both SD channels via Dish showed that I was ready for DTV, so that means Dish is carrying the digital channels. I suspected that already, because KQED, our PBS station, has part of it's logo clipped off in the lower right corner on Dish. You can't tell with the other stations because they have their bugs within the 4:3 boundary. It appears that Dish Network is using the HD channel and clipping off the sides and showing everything 4:3.

Going through the analog channels, all of the major stations participated, except KQED, our main PBS station... (that was a surprise)... and two independent stations. In all cases I saw the red slate saying that I was not ready for DTV and listing the numbers to call for assistance. In San Francisco, they are offering assistance by just dialing 211 anytime. They also listed the 800 FCC number and one other, plus the web address dtv.org. I noticed that our main Asian language station had their slate in all Chinese characters. I got to see about five of the digital stations before the test ended... all showing green slates, of course. One just kept repeating "Your television is ready for digital. You have nothing further to do." Another said "This TV is ready for digital, but you should check the rest of the TVs in your home, too, to see if they're ready." A third said that the TV you're watching is ready for digital, but also check your other sets while the test is on. Then they went on about helping your friends and neighbors who might have trouble updating their TVs to digital. I thought that was a good idea.

Finally, after the test was over, I noticed that one of the analog stations ran a crawl across the top of the screen for about 10 minutes saying "The television you're watching is not ready for digital TV." Then it listed the phone numbers and dtv.org to contact for further information on fixing the problem.

I don't see how anyone who watches TV at least a little doesn't know about the analog stations shutting down. Besides these tests, there are dozens of PSAs and crawls every day. But how many will do something about it before February 17? They have reported that a high percentage of the Bay Area viewers who use an antenna and watch OTA TV are still not ready for digital. I suspect that Best Buy, Circuit City, Fryes and Radio Shack will be doing a big business on February 18th.

Larry
SF

I don't see how anyone who watches TV at least a little doesn't know about the analog stations shutting down. Besides these tests, there are dozens of PSAs and crawls every day.

I recall reading quotes from folks in Wilmington, NC saying that anyone who admits to not being ready for the switch after all this promotion ought to have their photos in the paper so they can be publicly humiliated.

As far as I know, they didn't do that, but there were thousands of people who either weren't ready or hadn't tried the box in advance and ran into trouble.

Dish still isn't ready in Raleigh...

How many actually have a digital ready TV but see the 'Not ready' message because they are obliviously watching a station's analog channel?

--- CHAS

Dish still isn't ready in Raleigh...

I have been told they are up here in the Triad and so is DirecTV.

How many actually have a digital ready TV but see the 'Not ready' message because they are obliviously watching a station's analog channel?

--- CHAS

More than you can imagine.

I recall reading quotes from folks in Wilmington, NC saying that anyone who admits to not being ready for the switch after all this promotion ought to have their photos in the paper so they can be publicly humiliated.

As far as I know, they didn't do that, but there were thousands of people who either weren't ready or hadn't tried the box in advance and ran into trouble.

After our test last night, and we have been doing these tests since September, I had one lady call who had NO CLUE what was going on.

After our test last night, and we have been doing these tests since September, I had one lady call who had NO CLUE what was going on.

:eek::eek:

How much cramming of the information does it take?

POST-TRANSITION DTV TABLE OF ALLOTMENTS, 47 C.F.R. § 73.622(I), OMAHA, NEBRASKA. Changed station KXVO-DT's DTV channel from 15 to 38. (Dkt No. RM-11445, 08-115). Action by: Chief, Video Division, Media Bureau. Adopted: 12/17/2008 by R&O. (DA No. 08-2721). MB DA-08-2721A1.doc DA-08-2721A1.pdf DA-08-2721A1.txt


POST-TRANSITION DTV TABLE OF ALLOTMENTS, 47 C.F.R. § 73.622(I), COLUMBUS, GEORGIA. Changed station WTVM-DT's DTV channel from 9 to 11. (Dkt No. RM-11437, 08-100). Action by: Chief, Video Division, Media Bureau. Adopted: 12/17/2008 by R&O. (DA No. 08-2722). MB DA-08-2722A1.doc DA-08-2722A1.pdf DA-08-2722A1.txt


POST-TRANSITION DTV TABLE OF ALLOTMENTS, 47 C.F.R. § 73.622(I), AUGUSTA, GEORGIA. Changed station WFXG-DT's DTV channel from 51 to 31. (Dkt No. 08-103, RM-11441). Action by: Chief, Video Division, Media Bureau. Adopted: 12/17/2008 by R&O. (DA No. 08-2723). MB DA-08-2723A1.doc DA-08-2723A1.pdf DA-08-2723A1.txt


POST-TRANSITION DTV TABLE OF ALLOTMENTS, 47 C.F.R. 73.622(I), SANTA ANA, CALIFORNIA. Proposed change of station KTBN-DT's DTV channel from 23 to 33. (Dkt No. 08-250, RM-11508). Action by: Chief, Video Division, Media Bureau. Adopted: 12/17/2008 by NPRM. (DA No. 08-2728). MB DA-08-2728A1.doc DA-08-2728A1.pdf DA-08-2728A1.txt

:eek::eek:

How much cramming of the information does it take?

More than anyone can imagine........"People" are dumb for the most part....us techno geeks know what's going on (we hope! :) )...but 90% of the population dont know/understand/even know the change that is coming....The folks in the rural areas are the ones I feel sorry for....they are going to get a big suprise on 2.17.09......but then they may surprise ME! (probably not)

More than anyone can imagine........"People" are dumb for the most part....us techno geeks know what's going on (we hope! :) )...but 90% of the population dont know/understand/even know the change that is coming....The folks in the rural areas are the ones I feel sorry for....they are going to get a big suprise on 2.17.09......but then they may surprise ME! (probably not)

We can hope , right ?

We can hope , right ?

Errr, not really.

A station I once worked at had a magazine comic taped to the STL cabinet, of an old lady sitting in front of a television with smoke billowing out of it. She was on the phone yelling "Your station is on fire!"

It wasn't far off from some of the calls we got. Occasionally from people in our own sales department.

http://www.southsidemessenger.com/articles/2008/12/18/news/top_stories/ts3.txt

I wrote this for one of the two local newspapers. =)

- Trip

Good article. Perhaps I should try the same for the local newspaper, but they have not been very receptive to my previous comments on DTV.

Trip,

Is that your antenna setup?

Yes.

The top antenna is the Antennacraft Y5-2-6 for WBRA-DT.

The middle antenna is the Winegard PR-8800.

The bottom antenna is a 900 MHz yagi for my high-speed (when it works) Internet connection.

The yagi runs inside to a "WaveRider" radio which feeds into my router.

The two TV antennas are combined outside, then fed inside and split two ways, each of those getting its own amp. The one split goes straight to my dad's sound room where he wanted the best possible signal. The other gets split three ways to the office, the kitchen, and to my room. In the kitchen, it splits to go into the TV and the DTT900. In the office, it goes straight to the TV (Dad said something about getting a new TV for in there, so no box yet). In my room, it goes into a 4-way splitter, one for the HDV420 (RF loop out to the TV), one to the XDR-S3HD (when hooked up), and one running over to my computer, where it's split again so it can feed the two receivers in the computer. That's subject to change, for example right now the S3HD isn't hooked up, but I'm doing side-by-side converter box testing, so the two open spots on the splitter are feeding CECBs.

- Trip

Remember a while back we were arguing about FCC coverage maps of STAs not taking HAAT into account? I e-mailed Dale Bickel (the contact for the FCC TV Query) and asked and got this response:


HAAT values can't be calculated if the height of antenna radiation center above mean sea level isn't provided with the STA request (as it often isn't). Without a RCAMSL, the HAAT value defaults to 30 meters in all directions.


So those STA maps on the FCC site aren't very accurate at all it would seem.

- Trip

http://www.southsidemessenger.com/articles/2008/12/18/news/top_stories/ts3.txt

I wrote this for one of the two local newspapers. =)

- Trip


That was a great write-up. I think part of the problems too with antennas is a lot of people (most) in fringe areas are trying to use those huge combination antennas and are finding the UHF portion just isn't powerful enough. I don't like those combo's for DTV.

Remember a while back we were arguing about FCC coverage maps of STAs not taking HAAT into account? I e-mailed Dale Bickel (the contact for the FCC TV Query) and asked and got this response:



So those STA maps on the FCC site aren't very accurate at all it would seem.

- Trip

;) Told ya you were right!:)

I wrote my article specifically for my area. In driving around, I saw so many upper-VHF-only antennas on houses, and have visited two people who had just that problem already.

I hadn't thought about combo antennas being an issue, though you're certainly right, because I saw so few of them.

- Trip

COMMISSIONER ADELSTEIN TO VISIT PHOENIX FOR DTV OUTREACH. News Release. News Media Contact: Katie Yocum (202) 418-2300 CMMR DOC-287418A1.doc DOC-287418A1.pdf DOC-287418A1.txt

I wrote my article specifically for my area. In driving around, I saw so many upper-VHF-only antennas on houses, and have visited two people who had just that problem already.

I hadn't thought about combo antennas being an issue, though you're certainly right, because I saw so few of them.

- Trip

What made you decide to put your VHF antenna on top? Is that the way you got the best signal? Usually you hear and read that the UHF should go on top. I have found a few times myself that the way you have it works better, depending on the signal strengths of what you are shooting for.

http://www.southsidemessenger.com/articles/2008/12/18/news/top_stories/ts3.txt

I wrote this for one of the two local newspapers. =)

- Trip

I tried to pitch a similar article to a local rag, but the "ink-stained infidels" weren't at all interested in helping their "broadcast breath-eren." I think they're waiting for the 2/17 crash-and-burn story.

BTW, it is now 60 days until analog shutdown day! (Well, except for LPs, TXs, and which ever stations sign up for the Night Light extension). If the reported numbers are right, there will still be millions of OTA viewers unprepared for that day. Going to be interesting...

I tried to pitch a similar article to a local rag, but the "ink-stained infidels" weren't at all interested in helping their "broadcast breath-eren." I think they're waiting for the 2/17 crash-and-burn story.

My local papers have no TV competition since I live in the middle of nowhere. =) TV is nice but if you want local news, you're reading the paper!

- Trip

The Antennacraft replaced a Winegard Ghostkiller that we had been using for VHF analog (the Y5-2-6 gained 4-5 dB over the Ghostkiller on WBRA-DT) and the antennas were put up when our goal was not digital TV, but rather W54BT in Roanoke, which was at the time the home of UPN and thus Star Trek. The position on the pole made no difference to how W54BT looked, but made a lot of difference in how WDBJ-7 analog looked.

- Trip

The top antenna is the Antennacraft Y5-2-6 for WBRA-DT.


Looking at that antenna on your roof makes me wonder how I fit one into my attic!

Of course, it was all folded when I took it up there, so, I had never seen one from this angle or from outside. After I unfolded it, I decided to leave it where it was, since I can't "easily" move in around through the rafters like the upper VHF and UHF antennas.

I think part of the problems too with antennas is a lot of people (most) in fringe areas are trying to use those huge combination antennas and are finding the UHF portion just isn't powerful enough. I don't like those combo's for DTV.

I agree.

In the LA area, combos rule, but many of them heavily favor VHF over UHF. It is extremely rare to see full three band (L/H/U) separates (probably less than 1:200 installations) or even VHF (2-13)/UHF separates.

UHF only antennas (for DTV) are more common than separates, but those viewers are in for a surprise in a couple months, at least for channel 7. 9-13 may work for some.

In the San Diego area, separates are much more common. The 3 bands are in 3 different locations there (at least for analog), so it was a good way to avoid using a rotor.

Combo antennas end up with out of band reception on the other elements, especially for UHF, reducing performance. I also found that while the "loops" of rabbit ear/loop combos are supposed to be for UHF, the "ears" can also pull in quite a bit for UHF. If these combos came with internal diplexers, I'm sure it would help performance a great deal.

TV is nice but if you want local news, you're reading the paper!


That's an interesting point about local news. Since Orange County is part of the LA DMA, we have no local network stations and almost no local news, for about 3M people.

The LA stations do a "good" job of glossing over OC news, weather and traffic reports and only seem to send reporters here when we have those big fires.

One of the PBS stations has a news sub-channel and an independent station (KDOC) tried to air local news, but the latter failed.

However, I'm more than happy to take the range of the Mt. Wilson towers as a trade for little to no local news. 50 miles is not "rural" here, not by a long-shot.

So, if we want local news in Orange County, by and large, we have to read the paper as well.

Three stations in the Redding/Chico, California, market will be turning off their analog transmitters on Sunday night, December 21st. KHSL-CBS 12 and KNVN-NBC 24 in Chico and KCVU-FOX 30 in Paradise will switch to digital-only as of Monday. KRCR-ABC 7 in Redding will keep its analog transmitter on the air until February 17th. The PBS station, KIXE 9 in Redding, went all digital back in August.

Larry
SF

http://www.southsidemessenger.com/articles/2008/12/18/news/top_stories/ts3.txt

I wrote this for one of the two local newspapers. =)

- Trip

Nice write up, Trip! Local papers should be looking for more TV enthusiast authors like you.

Larry

Now that we have that determination accomplished, even I am at a loss as to how the station can still exist, without any income. Is the station only available via cable and DBS?

Even though I shouldn't, I find it amazing that the FCC didn't have this taken care of soon after the paperwork was submitted.

Our tax $$$ at work.

Well, your are correct about "Our tax $$$ at work". We are a PBS affiliate. WEDY is one of five citys we have (had) licenses for. (When WTXX-DT/20 came on the air a couple years ago we had to shut off our Ch. 20 translator. That dropped it to four.)

WEDY-65 was licensed to New Haven and was a 1Kw powerhouse. The original digital license was for Ch. 39. The local WB (I think) station was assigned Ch. 6. I guess the powers that be at the time thought we should swap channels in order to protect our FM stations (we have 5). I guess the Ch. 6 assignment has always been regarded by us as a fill-in channel for downtown New Haven and never as a channel with any great coverage area.

Hence, when our WEDH-DT/45 came on the air earlier this year and everyone saw what great coverage it had it may have been a wise decision.

Therefore, after taking a really short answer and making it entirely too long, we have been saving a bunch of money on electricity and maintenance.

Just to satisfy my own curiosity, why did WEDH-DT move from 32 to 45?

- Trip

Well, your are correct about "Our tax $$$ at work".

Plus your viewers' donation $$$. :)

(That reminds me, I've still got my year-end donation request from South Carolina ETV on my desk. I'd better send that off soon if I want it to count against this year's taxes.)

Just to satisfy my own curiosity, why did WEDH-DT move from 32 to 45?

- Trip
This bedtime story has been told in the Hartford OTA thread but I'll repeat it here.

Once upon a time back in the early days before the first channel assignments, three stations were to go on the same tower - this is a little murky, I might add. WTIC-DT/31, WEDH-DT/32 and WFSB-DT/33.

When WFSB decided not to participate that meant that they would no longer be co-located and this set in motion the FCC's interference rules. WEDH-DT/32 would drop from 200 Kw ERP to something like 500 watts. That sent us searching for another channel.

Because there was no channel available, the decision was made to swap our WEDN-DT/45 channel assignment with WEDH-DT/32. The day after we applied for the channel swap we also applied to switch 32 with a new channel 9 at WEDN. Do you see where this is going or have I confused you?

After waiting for years for the FCC to straighten out the mess in NYC with WABC they finally granted our requests. One night we turned off WEDN-DT/45 and the next day we turned on WEDN-DT/9 and WEDH-DT/45.

And (almost) everyone lived happily ever after.

Makes perfect sense. WFSB would have been smart to be up with you on the tall tower for better coverage. I also see how that would have caused you serious problems.

At least everything worked out in the end, and you get to save on the power bill for WEDN...

- Trip

Here's a fun application by WFYI-DT.

http://fjallfoss.fcc.gov/cgi-bin/ws.exe/prod/cdbs/forms/prod/prefill_and_display.pl?Application_id=1261124&Service=DT&Form_id=340&Facility_id=41397

I'm mostly amused with the parts discussing WBNS-DT. They talk about it being in violation of FCC rules and having been "erroneously accepted."

I'll be amused to see what the FCC does with the WBNS-DT application. I personally hope it's granted. I want to see who boosts power.

- Trip

Hello! *hears echoes* It's quiet in here.

Last night I spent a while trying to get the FCC's DTV analysis code to run. It's written in Fortran and I tried a number of different tools to make it run but I ran out of ideas. Does anyone know how to go about making it run?

- Trip

Here's a fun application by WFYI-DT.

http://fjallfoss.fcc.gov/cgi-bin/ws.exe/prod/cdbs/forms/prod/prefill_and_display.pl?Application_id=1261124&Service=DT&Form_id=340&Facility_id=41397

I'm mostly amused with the parts discussing WBNS-DT. They talk about it being in violation of FCC rules and having been "erroneously accepted."

I'll be amused to see what the FCC does with the WBNS-DT application. I personally hope it's granted. I want to see who boosts power.

- Trip

Thanks for the post, Trip. This could be interesting to follow.

Steve

Hello! *hears echoes* It's quiet in here.

It is the echoes in your own mind. :D

Last night I spent a while trying to get the FCC's DTV analysis code to run. It's written in Fortran and I tried a number of different tools to make it run but I ran out of ideas. Does anyone know how to go about making it run?

Source/binary?

Windblows/Unix?

Source/binary?

Windblows/Unix?

http://www.fcc.gov/oet/dtv/dtv_apps.html

I use Kubuntu Linux and have been attempting to make it run on here with no success...

- Trip

Makes perfect sense. WFSB would have been smart to be up with you on the tall tower for better coverage. I also see how that would have caused you serious problems.

At least everything worked out in the end, and you get to save on the power bill for WEDN...

At least for CPTV. Getting WFSB-DT (CBS) in Mystic is not nearly as easy and I have yet to succeed. They have ignored all of my comments as well. As I recall, a new tower was going to be constructed originally, but that plan was scrapped. I don't know which came first (the tower being scrapped or WFSB pulling out), but this area would be much better off with WFSB moving to the same location as WEDH (the WTIC tower).

I use Kubuntu Linux and have been attempting to make it run on here with no success...

What do you get when you run "file" against the lib files? I'm running Solaris and all it knows is that it is an archive.

Where is the makefile? Typical half-assed government work. No README, no Makefile...

I'm not going to be of any help. Sorry.

What do you get when you run "file" against the lib files? I'm running Solaris and all it knows is that it is an archive.

Where is the makefile? Typical half-assed government work. No README, no Makefile...

I'm not going to be of any help. Sorry.

Thanks for looking at it at least... I'm not even entirely sure where I should start. Any thoughts?

I'd really like to be able to run these things.

- Trip

/me is a UNIX (primarily Linux) sysadmin. That said, I'm not a miracle worker; I took a whack at this, and it would take someone with more knowledge of Fortran. That, and a useful Makefile.

It appears that the code is Fortran-77. On my Linux box, I can compile most of the .f files individually with 'g77 -c file.f' (after installing g77, of course) but I can't actually link them into an executable, due to missing symbols. Example:

andrew@shiny:~/Downloads/p27$ f77 run_qualcomm_adjust.f
/tmp/ccsC2o9r.o: In function `MAIN__':
run_qualcomm_adjust.f:(.text+0x33): undefined reference to `ieee_handler__'
/tmp/ccsC2o9r.o: In function `irec_idx__':
run_qualcomm_adjust.f:(.text+0x1400): undefined reference to `r_log2__'
collect2: ld returned 1 exit status

Neither of those is defined in any of the Fortran source files provided -- most likely, I'm missing some libraries. All I find on Google is Solaris man pages (that I don't have on my Solaris systems) or references to Fortran compilers from Intel, etc.

All the binaries provided in that zip are (as reported by 'file') compiled for SPARC. I can't even run them on the Solaris/Sparc machines I have, due to missing libraries (Fortran libraries probably; of course I don't have a Solaris Fortran compiler handy... I could install g77, but I'd probably be in the same boat as on my Linux box then):

andrew@rudolph:/tmp/p27$ ldd run_qualcomm_adjust
libF77.so.4 => (file not found)
libM77.so.2 => (file not found)
libsunmath.so.1 => (file not found)
libm.so.1 => /lib/libm.so.1
libc.so.1 => /lib/libc.so.1
libdl.so.1 => /lib/libdl.so.1
/usr/platform/SUNW,Ultra-5_10/lib/libc_psr.so.1

Well, thank you for looking at it. You got further than I did. What steps do you think I should take next if I want to try to get it running? I could try installing OpenSolaris on a spare system here if it might help...

- Trip

Add another analog to the list. WKYU in Bowling Green had a transmitter failure and is now digital-only.

- Trip

My suggestion would be to email anyone you can find as the "contact" for this program and ask how they build it -- what compiler they use, if there's a Makefile they left out, etc.

I see the Sun Studio (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sun_Studio_(software)) compiler supports Fortran as well as C/C++, so it's possible that's what they're using (it was the standard compiler for Solaris, before gcc was ported to everything under the sun (pun not intended), and IIRC also used to cost $$$$). It's free nowadays, so you might take a whack at OpenSolaris + Sun Studio (it may even be bundled in the the "Solaris Express Developer Edition" releases of OpenSolaris).

I actually downloaded Sun Studio at one point. Took an hour or so to download, just to run and say "Oh, sorry, we only support RPM-based distros." I deleted it in anger that they didn't say that sooner. And if they'd distributed it in .RPM form, I could have used alien on it.

I have an OpenSolaris ISO so maybe I'll play with that at some point. I really don't know what else to do with it.

As far as finding a contact, the FCC site insists that it's offered "as is" which doesn't do me a whole lot of good.

I'm sure the FCC made it a pain to use on purpose, so stations would go to a consultant rather than do it themselves. I'm stubborn though. :D

- Trip

And we have another channel change request.

Pappas wants to buy the DTV facilities from WHO-DT outright instead of building out their own for KDMI-DT. For this reason, they want their digital changed from channel 31 to channel 19.

KWNB-DT's request to move from 18 to 6 was approved today, and an NPRM was issued for WFQX-DT's request to relocate from 47 to 32.

- Trip

Analog Night-light bill was signed by President Bush. Broadcasting & Cable news article at http://www.broadcastingcable.com/article/CA6624867.html.

Given the frequency conflict issues, I agree with Trip's earlier post that odds are that many of the night-light stations will be low VHF analog stations. However I question whether this 30 day 'extension' will confuse people into thinking all analog stations in their market will stay on the air for another 30 days, so they will put off buying converter boxes. There is already a great deal of confusion and mis-understanding about the transition.

KDMI is one of at least two Iowa stations which may go dark after February 17, at least temporarily.

The MyNetwork affiliate was already digital-only from the get-go, but was assigned Channel 56. It legally can't stay there after the transition and was slated to move to 31. Problem is, KDMI has also filed for an extension of time to build their post-transition station (link (http://fjallfoss.fcc.gov/cgi-bin/ws.exe/prod/cdbs/forms/prod/prefill_and_display.pl?Application_id=1285339&Service=DT&Form_id=337&Facility_id=78915)) due to "severe financial hardship." That's an extension beyond February 17. They may not have a home after they're forced to shut off 56.

And earlier this week, I came across a Form 387 filing from KWWF, a Waterloo, IA independent (formerly UPN) station owned by Equity Broadcasting. (It is not to be confused with KWWL, an NBC station owned by Quincy Newspapers.) KWWF is currently analog-only with no digital companion -- they need to "flash-cut" to digital on Channel 22.

But according to their report (link (http://fjallfoss.fcc.gov/cgi-bin/ws.exe/prod/cdbs/forms/prod/prefill_and_display.pl?Application_id=1285345&Service=TV&Form_id=387&Facility_id=81595)), parent company EBC Waterloo filed for bankruptcy earlier this month and "must obtain post-petition financing and court approval before digital facilities may be constructed." Their filing suggests they may not be able to convert Channel 22 to digital by the deadline, and they acknowledge that this could force them to leave the air entirely for a time.

S. 3663, the "Short-term Analog Flash and Emergency Readiness Act

Now that President Bush has signed the bill, will stations be requested or ordered to keep their analog transmitters on for public service announcements? What might be a feasible FCC plan to implement the law?

--- CHAS

DTV Nightlight Bill Becomes Law
Stations will be able to air emergency and educational information over analog past Feb. 17, 2009
By John Eggerton, Broadcasting & Cable - December 23, 2008

It's official. TV stations who are able to will get an extra 30 days past the Feb. 17, 2009 DTV transition date to broadcast emergency and DTV education information on their analog channels.

The White House confirms that the president signed the DTV nightlight bill into law today, Dec. 23.

The bill, actually the Short-term Analog Flash and Emergency Readiness (or SAFER) act was proposed by Senator Jay Rockefeller (D-WVA) and Rep. Lois Capps (D-Calif). It passed both the Senate and House by unanimous consent.

Broadcasters who elect to broadcast the education messages will need to air them in both Spanish and English. They will also get any emergency weather or public safety information that airs on the digital signal.

It has several caveats. For one thing, it simply permits, rather than mandates, the analog grace period, and says stations could not stay on if they interfered with other stations or with emergency communications.

The FCC is directed by Jan. 15 to come up with a plan to implement the voluntary program.

Broadcasters pushed for the grace period, and FCC Chairman Kevin Martin has said he thought it was a good idea.

http://www.broadcastingcable.com/article/CA6624867.html
__________________

However I question whether this 30 day 'extension' will confuse people into thinking all analog stations in their market will stay on the air for another 30 days, so they will put off buying converter boxes. There is already a great deal of confusion and mis-understanding about the transition.

I don't believe that this will further confuse the viewers, unless these transmissions are announced before hand. Once they see them and it says something like, "you need a converter box, etc. to keep watching us," the message will be very clear. I don't think snow will be more effective.

So, which of the ~9 stations in the LA area that are potentially eligible will do this? I don't expect many UHF stations to be interested, but it will be interesting to see if all 3 low-VHF stations agree to do this. When will we know?

In any event, there isn't much time left for people to put off buying boxes. Soon, it will be too late if they want to order coupons and buy CECB's by the transition.

According to both Rabbitears and the FCC station lookup, KXLT-DT will be at 220kW after the shutdown, but in this http://www.fcc.gov/dtv/markets/maps_report1/Rochester-Austin_MN-Mason_City_IA.pdf the coverage is listed based on 1000kW.. Are they increasing their power almost 5 fold?

FCC Map Book For Full-Power Digital Television Stations Having Significant Changes in Coverage

http://www.fcc.gov/dtv/markets/report2.html

This has maps showing where coverage will be lost or gained compared to analog. I have looked at some markets and the results seem a bit optimistic to me. I'm assuming they are comparing installations with 30' antennas.

Added:

Map Book of All Full-Power Digital Television Stations Authorized by the FCC

http://www.fcc.gov/dtv/markets/

It appears that the code is Fortran-77. On my Linux box, I can compile most of the .f files individually with 'g77 -c file.f' (after installing g77, of course) but I can't actually link them into an executable, due to missing symbols. Example:

andrew@shiny:~/Downloads/p27$ f77 run_qualcomm_adjust.f
/tmp/ccsC2o9r.o: In function `MAIN__':
run_qualcomm_adjust.f:(.text+0x33): undefined reference to `ieee_handler__'
/tmp/ccsC2o9r.o: In function `irec_idx__':
run_qualcomm_adjust.f:(.text+0x1400): undefined reference to `r_log2__'
collect2: ld returned 1 exit status



ieee_handler is just to handle math floating point errors. There is a line in the code which can be commented out.

log2 is a math function Log base 2. You probably have to add a math include. However, it does not appear the function irec_idx is even called so the whole function could be eliminated.

However, even if you got it compliled, I doubt the code will produce meaningful results for you.

The code assumes a very specific directory structure and set of file names. Therefore, the data must be put in the right locations. The code also executes a command flr_qualcomm_mod2_adjust which is obviously another custom application. I could not find it anywhere.

Without more information it will be very difficult to get this code to work.

David

ieee_handler is just to handle math floating point errors. There is a line in the code which can be commented out.

log2 is a math function Log base 2. You probably have to add a math include. However, it does not appear the function irec_idx is even called so the whole function could be eliminated.

However, even if you got it compliled, I doubt the code will produce meaningful results for you.

The code assumes a very specific directory structure and set of file names. Therefore, the data must be put in the right locations. The code also executes a command flr_qualcomm_mod2_adjust which is obviously another custom application. I could not find it anywhere.

Without more information it will be very difficult to get this code to work.

David

Thanks for the input.

I've installed OpenSolaris in a virtual machine (I love VirtualBox). OpenSolaris is based on Unix, right?

This might be beyond hope. I'd really like to be able to use it, but there may not be anything I can do to make it functional. I'd hate to have to go buy some software, but I might end up doing that at some point.

- Trip

Limited Window for Stations to Build Out 'Replacement Translators'

http://www.tvtechnology.com/article/72100

I found this comment interesting:

Replacement DTV translators would be allowed on Channels 2-59, although applicants proposing use of Channels 52-59 would have to demonstrate that no in-core channel was available.

This would seem to indicate that many stations would likely have to fill up Low-VHF before 52-59 became available. This also seems to confirm that analog translators will be allowed to continue operations on 52-59, post transition as others have noted.

FCC Map Book For Full-Power Digital Television Stations Having Significant Changes in Coverage

http://www.fcc.gov/dtv/markets/report2.html

This has maps showing where coverage will be lost or gained compared to analog. I have looked at some markets and the results seem a bit optimistic to me. I'm assuming they are comparing installations with 30' antennas.Thanks for the link. It appears FCC has put forth a lot of effort. I see the good people in rural Spokane are not going to be happy with the change.

Limited Window for Stations to Build Out 'Replacement Translators'

http://www.tvtechnology.com/article/72100

I found this comment interesting:



This would seem to indicate that many stations would likely have to fill up Low-VHF before 52-59 became available. This also seems to confirm that analog translators will be allowed to continue operations on 52-59, post transition as others have noted.

I know of several translators/LPs in the 6x channel range that will be on after 2/17....evidently they can operate as long as they dont cause interference...
Two of them are religious (A dollar a hollar) so they definitely want to stay...they have no plans to cut to digital in the near future...(would cut into their "income")

Merry Christmas to all my friends here on AVS. =)

- Trip

Merry Christmas and here's to many more channel changes next year. :)

Merry Christmas and here's to many more channel changes next year. :)
Same to all of you, and remember ... tomorrow there'll be only 53 more shopping days 'til February 17.:D

FCC Map Book For Full-Power Digital Television Stations Having Significant Changes in Coverage
Interesting coverage maps. Surprised to some extent that the FCC put this out there because someone in the press - and possibly Congress - is likely to use these maps to attack the whole digital transition process. Maybe they should post a corresponding set of maps for stations with significant improvements in digital coverage vs analog to offset possible criticism.

Question I have for the group is what is the assumption in antenna gain & height (probably 30') for UHF? Can a high gain UHF antenna - assuming no hills or ridges blocking the path - make up for much of the official coverage loss when moving from 100 kW analog low VHF to 1000 kW UHF? I have picked up WJZ-DT 13 in Baltimore on UHF 38 outside at ground level with a Silver Sensor from some miles outside of the coverage zone shown on the map in the Baltimore file (WMAR-DT 2 will take over WJZ-DT's UHF 38 antenna post-transition). Are the coverage maps over-pessimistic for UHF reception outside of the solid line area if you have some height and a XG-91 or CM-4228 & a pre-amp?

But those maps do that. They show large improvements and losses in coverage both. Some areas have only losses, but there are some major gains that I saw in places. If you look at the maps of all stations (not just major gains/losses) you'll find that almost every UHF analog on a UHF digital is gaining a decent amount of coverage. Upper-VHF to UHF stations are also retaining their coverage areas. Low-VHF stations going to UHF are almost all losers (go look at Harrisonburg's WHSV, ouch) but I think the digital transition is really a net positive.

- Trip

But those maps do that. They show large improvements and losses in coverage both. Some areas have only losses, but there are some major gains that I saw in places. If you look at the maps of all stations (not just major gains/losses) you'll find that almost every UHF analog on a UHF digital is gaining a decent amount of coverage. Upper-VHF to UHF stations are also retaining their coverage areas. Low-VHF stations going to UHF are almost all losers (go look at Harrisonburg's WHSV, ouch) but I think the digital transition is really a net positive.
Posted too soon. Missed the improved coverage maps. KMCC 32 in the Las Vegas market DTC coverage >> analog. The KMCC analog antenna HAAT is -63 meters!

Yea, WHSV 3 takes a big hit in DT coverage (at least based on the assumptions used to generate the maps).

Looking again at Spokane, KREM2 to DT20 losing only 249 viewers net, but a huge area is losing coverage. The reason seems to be the town of Pullman (population 24,625) is a huge net gain.
KXLY4 to DT13 is a big loser, 26,332 with only a slight difference in coverage area compared to KREM. The difference is KXLY tower is a bit farther north, thus Pullman is just outside the coverage area

KXLY has a pending application to relocate to the same mountaintop that houses the other Spokane stations. We'll see what the FCC says about it, but it will provide coverage of Pullman if approved.

- Trip

Interesting coverage maps. Surprised to some extent that the FCC put this out there because someone in the press - and possibly Congress - is likely to use these maps to attack the whole digital transition process. Maybe they should post a corresponding set of maps for stations with significant improvements in digital coverage vs analog to offset possible criticism.

Question I have for the group is what is the assumption in antenna gain & height (probably 30') for UHF? Can a high gain UHF antenna - assuming no hills or ridges blocking the path - make up for much of the official coverage loss when moving from 100 kW analog low VHF to 1000 kW UHF? I have picked up WJZ-DT 13 in Baltimore on UHF 38 outside at ground level with a Silver Sensor from some miles outside of the coverage zone shown on the map in the Baltimore file (WMAR-DT 2 will take over WJZ-DT's UHF 38 antenna post-transition). Are the coverage maps over-pessimistic for UHF reception outside of the solid line area if you have some height and a XG-91 or CM-4228 & a pre-amp?
I had pretty much the same reaction to the FCC coverage maps. Thinking about the digital stations that I currently receive that are not changing their broadcast channel, it seems like the coverage maps are conservative.

In CO, Grand Junction's KREX takes a hit. (http://www.fcc.gov/dtv/markets/maps_report2/Grand_Junction-Montrose_CO.pdf) IIRC, KREX operates Fox KFQX, and it looks like KFQX must be putting CBS on a subcarrier. In plain numbers KREX takes a big hit from analog 5 to DT 2, but given they're still recovering from last year's studio fire, I'll give them a pass.

More perplexing is the issue of KTVO, (ABC)Kirksville MO (http://www.fcc.gov/dtv/markets/maps_report2/Ottumwa_IA-Kirksville_MO.pdf). (Excuse me, I'm reposting about this topic here for wider coverage and comment.) No fire here, but KTVO's owner Barrington Broadcasting also owns KHQA in Quincy IL which runs ABC on its subchannel. No CPs have been filed to maximize the KTVO signal. Most people in the Quincy Hannibal market are delighted to get an ABC signal, even if it is just SD. KTVO's DT pattern puts the null right towards Q-H. Granted, this may have been a choice to mximize signal to its core market rather than placing the optimum null.

So, there are no fires or deep valleys to blame in this case. It appears to be mostly economic. Is it wrong to be cynical here? (BTW, Barrington also controls LMA partner KYOU in Ottumwa, the Fox affiliate)

Here is the URL for the initial Nightlight Station list. Only 310 stations listed and most are as we expected, VHF low. They are grouped by markets. Stations can ask to be added if they can prove they will not cause interference to digital stations in operation.

http://hraunfoss.fcc.gov/edocs_public/attachmatch/FCC-08-281A2.pdf

In CO, Grand Junction's KREX takes a hit. (http://www.fcc.gov/dtv/markets/maps_report2/Grand_Junction-Montrose_CO.pdf) IIRC, KREX operates Fox KFQX, and it looks like KFQX must be putting CBS on a subcarrier. In plain numbers KREX takes a big hit from analog 5 to DT 2, but given they're still recovering from last year's studio fire, I'll give them a pass.

KFQX-DT has CBS on 4-2, but not KREX, rather the localized feed for KREY in Montrose (which is responsible for the orange diamonds to the southeast of KREX). I forget if it was supposed to be acting as the STL for KREY or was a backup to the STL.

Given who owns it and whatnot, I'm surprised KREX didn't flash-cut to channel 5 and boost power a whole bunch. It would certainly be better than operating on channel 2 of all channels, and let them recycle the existing channel 5 antenna (and preserve all that coverage).

More perplexing is the issue of KTVO, (ABC)Kirksville MO (http://www.fcc.gov/dtv/markets/maps_report2/Ottumwa_IA-Kirksville_MO.pdf). (Excuse me, I'm reposting about this topic here for wider coverage and comment.) No fire here, but KTVO's owner Barrington Broadcasting also owns KHQA in Quincy IL which runs ABC on its subchannel. No CPs have been filed to maximize the KTVO signal. Most people in the Quincy Hannibal market are delighted to get an ABC signal, even if it is just SD. KTVO's DT pattern puts the null right towards Q-H. Granted, this may have been a choice to mximize signal to its core market rather than placing the optimum null.

So, there are no fires or deep valleys to blame in this case. It appears to be mostly economic. Is it wrong to be cynical here? (BTW, Barrington also controls LMA partner KYOU in Ottumwa, the Fox affiliate)

KTVO doesn't want to spend the money on a tower crew, antenna replacement, and higher power bill to cover the area the analog covered. I imagine the market has a high cable/satellite penetration given that there are only two network affiliates in the market, so it probably doesn't make sense to boost the signal a whole lot.

- Trip

KTVO is not avaiable on the satellite services. There are few fiber connections in the area, so distribution to cable systems outside the coverage area is going to be almost impossible unless they lease satellite spectrum. This would be a good distributed transmitter application IMHO.

KTVO is not avaiable on the satellite services. There are few fiber connections in the area, so distribution to cable systems outside the coverage area is going to be almost impossible unless they lease satellite spectrum. This would be a good distributed transmitter application IMHO.

Given KYOU's coverage of the Missouri side of the market, what do people on satellite in that area do to receive Fox?

- Trip

KYOU has a translator on 34 in Kirksville. If they are out of the coverage area of that, the distant FOX stations are available on satellite.

In addition, WGEM in Quincy has FOX and CW on DT subchannels, so when it moves DT back to channel 10vin Feb., the outer portions of the Q-H mkt will be served with those nets, at least in SD.

It will be interesting to see if KTVO files for replacement translators to cover the western portions of the MO analog area. I'm wondering if the FCC will intervene in this case, since by my guess some 20,000 people will lose all OTA service.

Would have to think that Sat and cable penetration in the affected area is very high. Cable will probably pick up KMBC from KC for ABC, since those areas already import via microwave other KC signals.

Agreed, DTS would be a good solution here. It may also be an opportunity for LPTVs to pick up some net affiliations.

Then there is the issue of the Ottumwa translators that bring in CBS and NBC from Des Moines. They lost support from the local cable company, lost their long time tower site (landowners hiked the rent up too high) and they can't afford to rebuild. They reportedly are hanging on by a thread, with antennas mounted on a pole. Will be interesting if the parent stations take over ownership, or if they just die on the vine. (This may be going beyond the scope of this thread)

I just returned from Palm Desert visiting my parents for Christmas and even though they have cable I was curious what their local digital channels were. After looking at their cable I reviewed the FCC database of stations in the Palm Springs area. What a mess! They have just a few digital stations and a large number of low power analog stations, which few if any have applications for digital stations.

These two in particular threw me. KPSP-LP, 9KW on channel 33 and a CBS affiliate is calling itself "Local 2" (including the CBS eye) because it's on cable channel 2. It's not OTA on channel 2 and in fact there is another LP station in the market on channel 2. They have no DTV transmitter and no application for one but they are supplying HD programming to Time Warner Cable.

KDFX-CA, 9.6KW on channel 38 and a FOX affiliate is calling itself FOX 11 even though it has no OTA transmitter on channel 11 and no DTV application. I forgot to check if it is HD on cable or if it's on cable 11.

I thought there was a strict rule saying stations had to retain their analog channel number for identification? How are they getting away with identifying by their cable channel number? I didn't see either station identifying as 33 or 38 but I could have missed it.

Unfortunately I couldn't watch them OTA but KPSP had both SD and HD on the cable and they identified themselves as Local 2 during news broadcasts so I assume that was being seen OTA.

Historically, the Coachella Valley was little more than large agricultural center and a playground for LA's elite. There wasn't enough permanent population to support local affiliates and so LA stations were simply piped in via cable. Hence CBS 2, NBC 4, ABC 7, and Fox 11. As the population in the valley boomed over the last 10-15 years, it made financial sense for network affiliates to sign on and provide a local presence. Since there wasn't much of an installed base of antennas in the area (since there wasn't much worth watching OTA), branding to match the existing cable locations made a heck of a lot more sense. There's no mandate regarding what branding stations use, only one requiring that the PSIP information on the digital channel map to the old analog channel, and I'm not sure if that even applies to low power/class A/translators.

Historically, the Coachella Valley was little more than large agricultural center and a playground for LA's elite. There wasn't enough permanent population to support local affiliates and so LA stations were simply piped in via cable. Hence CBS 2, NBC 4, ABC 7, and Fox 11. As the population in the valley boomed over the last 10-15 years, it made financial sense for network affiliates to sign on and provide a local presence. Since there wasn't much of an installed base of antennas in the area (since there wasn't much worth watching OTA), branding to match the existing cable locations made a heck of a lot more sense. There's no mandate regarding what branding stations use, only one requiring that the PSIP information on the digital channel map to the old analog channel, and I'm not sure if that even applies to low power/class A/translators.

Actually, I think they can put ANYTHING in the PSIP......Some .2 subchannels I have seen show MyLaf or xxxFOX but no channel number....

They're supposed to map to the analog channel number. No regulation that I know of about what is supposed to be in the ID field.

- Trip

Regarding the Ottumwa translators, I doubt the Des Moines stations will provide any financial support. They have not done so for many years, as most of the funds came from the cable company (a condition of their initial franchise agreement in the early 70's). The Des Moines stations did not step in to save the Carroll translators in the early 80's, and I don't believe they support the Clarinda ones.

I grew up in Ottumwa and spent many an hour watching those translators. I hope the OATS folks can raise enough money to keep the translators on the air, as there are a lot of lower income folks around Ottumwa and down towards Bloomfield that use them.

After looking at their cable I reviewed the FCC database of stations in the Palm Springs area. What a mess! They have just a few digital stations and a large number of low power analog stations, which few if any have applications for digital stations.

When I first tested DTV in "The Desert," I was appalled by the lack of available stations, for such a populated area, but as others have noted, most of the growth occurred along with cable TV.

The Desert has also had very significant coordination problems with Mexico, but hopefully the LP stations won't be affected as severely (when they bother to try switching).

There are only two local full power Network stations (KESQ/ABC and KMIR/NBC), although FOX is available on a sub-channel of KESQ. Not having CBS at all for DTV locally is an unfortunate over-sight, but with fewer than 4% relying on OTA there (96.4% cable/sat - the highest in the nation), the transition has hardly been making any waves.

I doubt there are many other 400k+ population areas that are served almost exclusively by LP stations and translators.

Attached are my results from a few months ago, with LOS to most towers at under 5 miles. KPSP (CBS) was only passable at that distance. A 3rd DTV station, KVMD peeks into the Coachella Valley, but has never had anything I've wanted to watch.

Regarding the Ottumwa translators, I doubt the Des Moines stations will provide any financial support. They have not done so for many years, as most of the funds came from the cable company (a condition of their initial franchise agreement in the early 70's). The Des Moines stations did not step in to save the Carroll translators in the early 80's, and I don't believe they support the Clarinda ones.

I grew up in Ottumwa and spent many an hour watching those translators. I hope the OATS folks can raise enough money to keep the translators on the air, as there are a lot of lower income folks around Ottumwa and down towards Bloomfield that use them.

Maybe time to call the O'Rielly farm and see if Walter can pull a miracle!!!
(Gary Burghoff to others ;)

FCC Map Book For Full-Power Digital Television Stations Having Significant Changes in Coverage

http://www.fcc.gov/dtv/markets/report2.html

This has maps showing where coverage will be lost or gained compared to analog. I have looked at some markets and the results seem a bit optimistic to me. I'm assuming they are comparing installations with 30' antennas.

And I added this info to the first post! Good stuff in there, but not entirely accurate. In Rockford, WIFR-DT is NOT going to 330+ kw; it has now said it essentially can't afford to replace the transmitter, so 100 kw is what it will get...and what they just went to on Christmas Eve.

DTV Spreadsheet Update:

1026 = Number of DTV stations operating post-transition facilities
141 = Number of DTV stations operating post-transition facilities, but have been granted maximized Construction Permits (included in the above)
159 = Number of stations reducing analog ERP prior to the transition
258 = Early end to analog (before 2/17/09)
128 = Analog already off (included in early end)

The Low-VHF count has increased to 42. The current projected breakdown is as follows:

Low-VHF: 42 (2.3%) - Average ERP - 13.3kW
High-VHF: 446 (24.5%) - 25.2kW
UHF: 1331 (73.2%) - 517kW

http://hraunfoss.fcc.gov/edocs_public/attachmatch/DA-08-2818A1.pdf

Nothing too terribly important, just how to file for fill-in translators.

- Trip

And I added this info to the first post! Good stuff in there, but not entirely accurate. In Rockford, WIFR-DT is NOT going to 330+ kw; it has now said it essentially can't afford to replace the transmitter, so 100 kw is what it will get...and what they just went to on Christmas Eve.And there are a few other cases in which this study doesn't take into account late-breaking filings.

As an example: There's a companion report at http://www.fcc.gov/dtv/markets/ , which aims to cover all full power stations rather than just the ones facing "significant changes." It shows one Ottumwa, IA station (KYOU) as losing a lot of coverage, but bases that map on their original 9.2 kW Channel 15 allotment. The station now has a construction permit for 360 kW.

Well, there had to be some kind of a cutoff in order to come up with maps, else they'd be waiting eternally for things to be granted, not knowing which would be granted and which would be denied.

- Trip

Well, there had to be some kind of a cutoff in order to come up with maps, else they'd be waiting eternally for things to be granted, not knowing which would be granted and which would be denied.

- Trip

Of course, but update them when feasible. Otherwise, you'll have a lot of potentially disgruntled people. The transition will be crazy enough without the FCC telling people it will be fine, or not, and then it's not true.

It looks like channel 15 may be lost for the LA area to Land Mobile. As LM allocations are already on 14 and 16, 15 is not available to LA, so this may affect the surrounding areas more (such as San Diego, which has (had) an analog 15 - KPBS).

I am more concerned about why we have auctioned off portions of 60-69 for public safety, when agencies do not want to relocate there.

http://hraunfoss.fcc.gov/edocs_public/attachmatch/DA-08-2823A1.pdf

10. The supporting commenters also come to a consensus that the 700 MHz band would not meet the County’s current needs. First, several commenters assert that the 700 MHz band has insufficient narrowband capacity for all of the County’s agencies in the context of providing a single platform. Second, several commenters assert that moving to the 700 MHz band from UHF would be cost prohibitive, and agencies operating on UHF frequencies cannot afford to abandon their equipment for a move to the 700 MHz band. Finally, equipment manufacturer Motorola, Inc. (Motorola) echoes the County’s observation that “radio equipment for the 700 MHz band is not interoperable with UHF equipment that is used by public safety agencies in the County.” Motorola states that “there is no equipment currently available that covers both the 700 MHz band and the UHF band.”

Will 14-20(21) be irrevocably lost in areas that are in most need of additional UHF channels for TV or will these LM operators be "encouraged" to move to the 700MHz band some day?

The nature of public safety communications envisioned in the 700 Mhz band has never clear to me. I do get the impression that it's meant for digital modes perhaps to be based upon WiMax and Project25 type technologies. There's been a lot of mention about it being required to promote interoperability between 'First responders'.

I never really understood what interoperability really means to those in the emergency communications business. If you look into the 'open' Project25 standards they define a common digital codec and inter-device digital interfaces but do not address RF frequency concerns. I always thought that a bogus concept only addressing half the problem. Perhaps the 700 MHz band plan fixes that.

If the entities qualifying as first responders have common equipment that might work. But, the LA request for waver states moving to 700 MHz would hinder their interoperability because they would evolve into a mixed band system and evidently the FCC agrees.

Anyway, the FCC probably made the correct decision in this particular case.

As an aside, since the 70's, I have driven around the country with a FM 2 Meter amateur radio and have never had an 'interoperability' problem.

--- CHAS

Anyway, the FCC probably made the correct decision in this particular case.

Perhaps, since 15 was sandwiched between LM 14 and LM 16. If they could move LM 20 to 17, it would free up 19-21, locally, which are currently unavailable. However, KSCI would have to move out of 18. I'm guessing that LM 20 was a newer assignment, but I will have to do some digging on its history.

Unfortunately, "new" spectrum discoveries are "rare," which means it's getting more crowded all the time. It seems to me that broadcasters are at the bottom of the FCC's priority list these days and that the TV spectrum is nothing more than a cache to raid. What happens when there are no more TV channels available? W/o new channels there can be no growth, w/o growth, how can a format expect to survive?

Whatever happened to the days when the FCC was adding channels, not taking them away?

That all changed when the government began auctioning-off spectrum and using the
anticipated windfall to "ease" budgetary problems.

Am I blind? Or I cannot find the XLS file in this thread? :(

Am I blind? Or I cannot find the XLS file in this thread? :(

Falcon_77's spreadsheet? It's now located on my site.

http://www.rabbitears.info/ss

- Trip

Am I blind? Or I cannot find the XLS file in this thread? :(

A link to the DTV Channel spreadsheet is in my signature as well as the first post of this thread.

A link to the DTV Channel spreadsheet is in my signature as well as the first post of this thread.Thanks. I wasn't aware that it moved. :)

POST-TRANSITION DTV TABLE OF ALLOTMENTS, 47 C.F.R. 73.622(I), GRAND ISLAND, NEBRASKA. Changed station KTVG-DT's post-transition DTV channel from 19 to 16. (Dkt No. 08-213, RM-11500). Action by: Chief, Video Division, Media Bureau. Adopted: 01/02/2009 by R&O. (DA No. 09-4).

We are going to have a little fun in Twin Cities with our PBS stations, KTCA Channel 2 has migrated to Channel 34 UHF while its sister station KTCI Channel 17 is temporary assignment to Channel 16 but is suppose to switch to Channel 26, which it has now determined will not let it match its current map area, so now it wants to switch to stay on 16 while they try to go to Channel 38 instead because Canada won't let them up power to match Contour maps on 26. Plus, KTCA wants to split their signals to show 'Virtual Channels' 2-1, 2-2 on their new UHF C.34, and have virtual ch. 2-3 and 2-4 on...well the FCC hasn't decided, so current plans is on ch.16....but the FCC still hasn't decided (I'd say that's cutting it close). So I can'twait to see what happens 2/17!

KTCI is waiting on Canadian concurrence. If the FCC had said no, we'd have seen a dismissal by now.

- Trip

It only took 2½ months, but my DTR page is FINALLY up to date! :D

- Trip

KTCI is waiting on Canadian concurrence. If the FCC had said no, we'd have seen a dismissal by now.

- Trip

What on blue earth is Canada dismissing TV stations broadcasting from the Twin Cities? Duluth, MN? International Falls? Sure, that'll cause interference. But MINNEAPOLIS?!?!?

Yeesh...

It only took 2½ months, but my DTR page is FINALLY up to date! :D

- Trip

Thanks a lot Trip, that page is a miracle!

KTCI is waiting on Canadian concurrence. If the FCC had said no, we'd have seen a dismissal by now.

- Trip
What on blue earth is Canada dismissing TV stations broadcasting from the Twin Cities? Duluth, MN? International Falls? Sure, that'll cause interference. But MINNEAPOLIS?!?!?

Yeesh...

KTCI is a mess, and I doubt it will see much of a change before Feb 17th.... I am curious to see what happens, its' coverage on analog/pre-transition digital was not that great, so I hope they can improve on that....

POST-TRANSITION DTV TABLE OF ALLOTMENTS, 47 C.F.R. 73.622(I), GRAND ISLAND, NEBRASKA. Changed station KTVG-DT's post-transition DTV channel from 19 to 16. (Dkt No. 08-213, RM-11500). Action by: Chief, Video Division, Media Bureau. Adopted: 01/02/2009 by R&O. (DA No. 09-4). MB DA-09-4A1.doc DA-09-4A1.pdf DA-09-4A1.txt

I just made a rather unpleasant discovery while trying to figure out what was going wrong with the Radio Mobile plots I was doing for Hawaii.

The FCC is still using NAD27 coordinates vs. the more modern WGS84 system. I don't know why I didn't notice this a long time ago, but it's going to make things more difficult.

I had the same problem with XETV in Tijuana, but had assumed the info was incorrect.

Does anyone know of a way to easily mass convert NAD27 coords to WGS84? :D

That's probably going to be easier than getting software to use NAD27, unless I'm missing something obvious.

Edit: The difference does not appear to be that great outside of Hawaii. The error there was about 450m, whereas most of the contiguous 48 states have errors under 100m. Unless the tower is on a steep hill/mountain, such errors are probably acceptable for the 48 states.

The US has interference agreements with Canada and Mexico and there are interference zones on each side of the border stations within that zone it takes both countries to sign off on an application. Minneapolis is in one of those zones. New England is in another interference zone that effects all the way to Boston. Of course new stations in Montreal and Toronto are also in an interference zone that the US has to sign off on as well. San Diego and LA are in another zone.

I knew about the interference zones, and San Diego and northern New England and even Duluth, MN make sense. But Minneapolis?!? If you're not within 100 miles of the border, you should be fine!

I knew about the interference zones, and San Diego and northern New England and even Duluth, MN make sense. But Minneapolis?!? If you're not within 100 miles of the border, you should be fine!

For UHF, certainly. Isn't the requirement still 300 miles for UHF? I suppose they are concerned about tropo in that case.

It seems overly conservative to me. Even Hartford stations need to be coordinated, at ~250 miles.

http://fjallfoss.fcc.gov/prod/ecfs/retrieve.cgi?native_or_pdf=pdf&id_document=6520192743

:)

- Trip

http://fjallfoss.fcc.gov/prod/ecfs/retrieve.cgi?native_or_pdf=pdf&id_document=6520192743

Do you see anything on analog 3?

I know that KCBS/2 can't nightlight due to KVBC-DT in Las Vegas, which is over 200 miles away.

Before WBRA-DT signed on, I'd regularly see light images from WBTV or WTKR, though not nearly as well as WFMY, WUNC, WRAL, and WTVR. Now it's hard to see anything on 3, just like it's hard to see WNCN analog on 17 with WFXR-DT there now, even though before WFXR-DT signed on, I used to see WNCN 24/7.

- Trip

Well folks, we have our first "fill-in" translator app. It's from the infamous KRMA-DT in Denver, wanting a channel 47 translator in Fort Collins.

- Trip

Before WBRA-DT signed on, I'd regularly see light images from WBTV or WTKR, though not nearly as well as WFMY, WUNC, WRAL, and WTVR. Now it's hard to see anything on 3, just like it's hard to see WNCN analog on 17 with WFXR-DT there now, even though before WFXR-DT signed on, I used to see WNCN 24/7.

- Trip

Perhaps this is similar to my experience with analog WJAR/10 out of Providence, vs. WTNH-DT/10 out of New Haven. WPRI 12 can be seen with the antenna pointed at New Haven, but WJAR is lost in snow. It will be interesting to see how much the SNR for WTNH increases when WJAR is turned off as I'm sure I'm getting interference. However, with my next CT visit planned for April and with the latest rumblings, who knows what's going to happen?

We have another fill-in translator app.

After KRMA-DT wanting 47 in Fort Collins, we can now add KSYS-DT wanting 42 in Jacksonville OR. KSYS is different, however; it is just joining a number of other stations in the Medford market which have translators in the same place.

Filings are still coming in...

- Trip

4) Now a situation somewhat unique to New Orleans: The Tribune owned duopoly of WNOL (CW) and WGNO (ABC) had full power analog and digital channels, sharing one antenna, on line prior to Katrina. Katrina destroyed their entire transmitter facility.

So, they decided to simply put up temporary reduced power analog transmitters, under STA, on tower space leased from SpectraSite, until the transition. They went ahead and built out their post-transition facility, electing not to rebuild their pre-transition facility for such a short time.

But there's a catch, the analog and digital post-transition frequency of WGNO (ABC) is channel 26. So, they can't operate digital 26 until analog 26 shuts down. In the mean time, they're carrying ABC and CW feeds on WNOL's post-transition transmitter. Since it gets higher ratings, ABC "wins" the decision as to which of those signals gets to be in HD. CW (previously WB) hasn't been available in HD in New Orleans OTA since Katrina. (They send an HD signal directly to some the local cable companies.)



They could take the CW IF its HD and down covert it to 720p and run it and ABC on the same digital signal...here in SE TX, KBMT did that with NBC after the NBC affiliate for DECADES, KBTV dumped NBC for FOX so they would get a free HD rack splicer and be able to go HD for less money on their flea power DTV transmitter....KBMT 12 picked up NBC and is running it in 720 on their .2 digital channel and so far it looks pretty damn good!!! The CW that goes to the cable companies is NOT HD...it is called the CW+ and is SD only....KFDM 6 in Beaumont, TX has CW on their .2 but its SD....even if they got the HD, they could not handle TWO 1080i signals on one digital carrier.....

KBTV is a joke for throwing all the NBC viewers to the wolves on Jan 1....no analog Superbowl for those without converter boxes....no NBC period...you either get 12.2 or else......

A number of off topic comments have been deleted.

For discussion of the possible delay of the analog cutoff, please go here: http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=1105820

Alright folks, I have the list!

I found a copy of the list of stations which will be testing Mobile DTV in a poorly-formatted Powerpoint, and have copied the list into a text file for easier viewing.

http://www.rabbitears.info/ATSC-MPH.txt

Only 63 stations listed.

I'll be interested to find out more about it once it launches. They keep talking about integrating it into cell phones, but I hope there's some type of stand-alone unit because I really don't feel like getting a new cell phone just for ATSC-M/H.

- Trip

Alright folks, I have the list!

I found a copy of the list of stations which will be testing Mobile DTV in a poorly-formatted Powerpoint, and have copied the list into a text file for easier viewing.

http://www.rabbitears.info/ATSC-MPH.txt

Only 63 stations listed.

I'll be interested to find out more about it once it launches. They keep talking about integrating it into cell phones, but I hope there's some type of stand-alone unit because I really don't feel like getting a new cell phone just for ATSC-M/H.

- Trip
Thanks for the list. Exactly what I want to see on it, none of my local stations are wasting bandwidth on that junk. The ABC, CW, and NBC stations here already look pretty bad thanks to multicasting, and throwing away another couple Mbit/s towards a standard no one is able to use would just add insult to injury.

Thanks for the list. Exactly what I want to see on it, none of my local stations are wasting bandwidth on that junk. The ABC, CW, and NBC stations here already look pretty bad thanks to multicasting, and throwing away another couple Mbit/s towards a standard no one is able to use would just add insult to injury.

I don't expect to see ATSC-M/H succeed, primarily because of AT&T and Verizon's proprietary TV services, but I can't blame them for trying it. I think in the end we'll see ATSC-M/H on all network stations, but only activated during emergencies for use on little TVs or something along those lines. I think that's a sensible use of the technology.

- Trip

Ladies and gentlemen, we have a DTS application.

WHKY-DT in Hickory NC is asking for a DTS. They want to operate the maximized 950 kW signal from the new tower site, and add an 18 kW transmitter in the area where WSOC/WCCB/WTVI/WAXN come from.

- Trip

Ladies and gentlemen, we have a DTS application.

WHKY-DT in Hickory NC is asking for a DTS. They want to operate the maximized 950 kW signal from the new tower site, and add an 18 kW transmitter in the area where WSOC/WCCB/WTVI/WAXN come from.

- TripLooking at the coverage map, their DTV40 coverage looks like it will cover all the metro Charlotte anyway. What area will the DTS coverage be? It looks like much overlap.

Agreed. I think it would make more sense if they were going to retain their current DT-40 signal and save money that way, but they're not even doing that it looks like.

- Trip

I found a copy of the list of stations which will be testing Mobile DTV

I see that LA is not represented on this list at all. Most of the other top markets have participating stations.

WBRA is interested when they are running DTV on 3?

San Francisco and Seattle are the only two markets west of the Mississippi even being tested. I have the feeling they're trying to test the system largely in rough terrain. A number of the chosen markets have that characteristic.

- Trip

San Francisco and Seattle are the only two markets west of the Mississippi even being tested. I have the feeling they're trying to test the system largely in rough terrain. A number of the chosen markets have that characteristic.
- Trip

Make that three markets west of the Mississippi (you missed Denver).

Make that three markets west of the Mississippi (you missed Denver).

Thanks. :)

Of course with all the signal issues folks in that area seem to be having... :D

- Trip

I just made a rather unpleasant discovery while trying to figure out what was going wrong with the Radio Mobile plots I was doing for Hawaii.

The FCC is still using NAD27 coordinates vs. the more modern WGS84 system. I don't know why I didn't notice this a long time ago, but it's going to make things more difficult.

I had the same problem with XETV in Tijuana, but had assumed the info was incorrect.

Does anyone know of a way to easily mass convert NAD27 coords to WGS84? :D

That's probably going to be easier than getting software to use NAD27, unless I'm missing something obvious.

Edit: The difference does not appear to be that great outside of Hawaii. The error there was about 450m, whereas most of the contiguous 48 states have errors under 100m. Unless the tower is on a steep hill/mountain, such errors are probably acceptable for the 48 states.
I did some coordinate conversion work quite awhile ago....the hard way....
with a mouthful of transcendental functions.

Here are some NAD27/NAD83 (which is almost WGS84 +/- 1 meter) references:
http://www.fs.fed.us/database/gps/aboutgps/
http://www.fs.fed.us/database/gps/aboutgps/documents/nad83.pdf
http://www.fs.fed.us/database/gps/datum/index.htm
http://www.ngs.noaa.gov/TOOLS/Nadcon/Nadcon.html
http://www.nsma.org/recommendation/WG3-92-036.pdf
Note that Hawaii has their own Datum reference point.

This tool says it accepts a file of input points per NAD27 datum:
http://www.ngs.noaa.gov/cgi-bin/nadcon.prl

FYI: Note that since GPS coordinates are an ovoid trying to match the Earth's surface,
an uncorrected GPS device could display a height several hundred feet higher
or lower than sea level when you are walking along the beach.....
Fortunately, FCC database simply uses AMSL instead....

COMMISSIONER COPPS TO VISIT DETROIT, MICHIGAN FOR DTV OUTREACH. News Release. News Media Contact: Rick Chessen at (202)418-2000 CMMR DOC-287753A1.doc DOC-287753A1.pdf DOC-287753A1.txt


COMMISSIONER MICHAEL J. COPPS TO VISIT BRISTOL, VIRGINIA FOR DTV OUTREACH. News Release. News Media Contact: Rick Chessen at (202)418-2000 CMMR DOC-287754A1.doc DOC-287754A1.pdf DOC-287754A1.txt

COMMISSIONER MCDOWELL TO VISIT MCALLEN, TX AS PART OF EXTENSIVE NATIONWIDE INITIATIVE FOR DTV OUTREACH. News Release. News Media Contact: Brigid Calamis (202) 418-2200; brigid.calamis@fcc.gov CMMR DOC-287761A1.doc DOC-287761A1.pdf DOC-287761A1.txt


COMMISSIONER MCDOWELL TO CONDUCT INTERVIEWS WITH THE MEDIA ON THE DIGITAL TELEVISION TRANSITION IN LAS VEGAS, NV. News Release. News Media Contact: Brigid Calamis (202) 418-2200; brigid.calamis@fcc.gov CMMR DOC-287760A1.doc DOC-287760A1.pdf DOC-287760A1.txt

COMMISSIONER JONATHAN ADELSTEIN CONDUCTS 2ND SATELLITE MEDIA TOUR ON DTV TRANSITION. News Release. News Media Contact: Katie Yocum (202) 418-2300 CMMR DOC-287815A1.doc DOC-287815A1.pdf DOC-287815A1.txt

FCC CHAIRMAN KEVIN MARTIN TO VISIT RALEIGH, NC FOR DTV OUTREACH. News Release. News Media Contact: Mary Diamond (202) 418-2388 or Matt Nodine (202) 418-1646 OCM DOC-287816A1.doc DOC-287816A1.pdf DOC-287816A1.txt

This comment on the fill-in translator service makes an interesting recommendation about low-VHF:

http://fjallfoss.fcc.gov/prod/ecfs/retrieve.cgi?native_or_pdf=pdf&id_document=6520193389

- Trip

I have uploaded a new spreadsheet version to the Rabbit Ears website (see signature for link).

Update details (through 1/14/09):

* Stations operating Post-Transition facilities: 1035
* Stations with maximized Construction Permits but otherwise ready: 157
* Stations to reduce analog operations prior to 2/17/09: 163
* Stations to end analog operations early: 257
* Stations that have already ended (or will not commence) analog operations: 139

What is it with the Charlotte, NC DMA and translators? Did coverage in Hickory go downhill that badly?

First WSOC buying W06AI to repeat itself into Hickory, then WHKY-DT and their DTS, and now, WTVI wants a fill-in translator on channel 14 in Hickory.

- Trip

POST-TRANSITION DTV TABLE OF ALLOTMENTS, 47 C.F.R. 73.622(I), RIO GRANDE CITY, TEXAS. Changed station KTLM-DT's DTV channel from 20 to 40. Proceeding Terminated. (Dkt No. RM-11471, 08-141). Action by: Chief, Video Division, Media Bureau. Adopted: 01/13/2009 by R&O. (DA No. 09-37).

What is it with the Charlotte, NC DMA and translators? Did coverage in Hickory go downhill that badly?

First WSOC buying W06AI to repeat itself into Hickory, then WHKY-DT and their DTS, and now, WTVI wants a fill-in translator on channel 14 in Hickory.

- Trip

It's been a while, but I remember, from staying with relatives in the Charlotte area, that WHKY-TV didn't have any analog coverage worth a toot. I had trouble getting them in Statesville, which is right up the freeway. I'm not sure their signal really even made it to Charlotte proper. If their DTV coverage matches their analog, then translators will be quite helpful to them and the home shopping companies that provide the bulk of their programming. :rolleyes: WTVI was also a difficult catch outside the Charlotte city limits.

I don't know what's up with WSOC though.

It's been a while, but I remember, from staying with relatives in the Charlotte area, that WHKY-TV didn't have any analog coverage worth a toot. I had trouble getting them in Statesville, which is right up the freeway. I'm not sure their signal really even made it to Charlotte proper. If their DTV coverage matches their analog, then translators will be quite helpful to them and the home shopping companies that provide the bulk of their programming. :rolleyes: WTVI was also a difficult catch outside the Charlotte city limits.

I don't know what's up with WSOC though.

I was able to receive WHKY-DT's current signal (which is not their maximized signal) from a hotel in Concord. The analog was non-existent, but the digital was there. The maximized signal would likely improve significantly on that. The DTS looks unnecessary to me.

WTVI shouldn't be staying on channel 11 like they are. It makes them the only VHF channel in the market, and at 2.57 kW, it'll be a tough catch without a roof antenna. Even with a roof antenna it won't be easy in many places. Given that they're Charlotte's TVGOS affiliate...

I can see WSOC though. Going from 9 to 34 probably results in some losses where line of sight didn't matter as much on VHF as it does now on UHF.

- Trip

WTVI has very good analog coverage--pretty comparable to the commercial stations. Of course, digital is another matter, though I'll admit I've been able to pick digital 11 up with my UHF silver sensor at 25 miles from their tower (I found a VERY sweet spot). I'm guessing money problems kept WTVI on digital 11, a decision which will come back to haunt them. The other two PBS stations (WUNG, WNSC) here have so-so digital signals, though not up to any of the commercials. I do get both fine with no issues. I do understand WSOC going for a DT in Hickory--it will help them reach signal parity in that densely populated area. Heretofore, they have been highly overpowered in analog and digital by much closer WBTV-WCNC-WJZY-WMYT. As far as WHKY goes, who cares? It has got to be the worst TV station I've ever watched....

As far as WHKY goes, who cares? It has got to be the worst TV station I've ever watched....

Come to Dallas and check out KLDT -- that may change your mind, at least in so far as reranking WKHY as "second worst".

Speaking of which, post-transition, KLDT is supposed to be moving from a 75 kw facility on channel 54 to a maximized 1,000 kw on channel 39. However, considering that the station is in bankruptcy, I've been wondering if they would have the resources to do so.

So I'm not surprised to see that they've filed an application for an STA to run 31.5 kw on channel 39. Somehow, I suspect that they'll be running at that reduced power level for a very long time.

Here we go. All of the WVMH stations filed for STAs just in case the date is pushed back.

WOWK
WVNS
WBOY
WTRF

All have filed to flash-cut or terminate analog, as the situation requires, on the 02/17/09 date. This is "just in case" the June 12 date ends up happening.

- Trip

Here we go. All of the WVMH stations filed for STAs just in case the date is pushed back.
As of today, Friday, Jan 16, there are 32 days left to the transition (maybe). There is a 3 day weekend coming up and Tuesday will be an off day as well for most federal employees in the DC area because of the inauguration. So will there be a last minute rush today to file STAs for February 17 by stations who are 1) facing financial and failing equipment issues in keeping analog going for possibly another four months, 2) want to kill their analog so they can fire up their post-transition digital signal, or 3) just want to get the damn thing over with?

WJAL 68 (16) in Chambersburg, PA should be filing an STA soon as they had a major fire in their transmitter building and will be off the air analog & digital for 30 to 60 days. WJAL-DT has a post-transition digital channel of UHF 39 which I believe is blocked by WJAL-DT 7 (39) in DC so a four month extension could put them in a even worse position.

I hope that even if Congress manages to pass a delay, the broadcasters just go ahead and change on Feb 17th anyway. It is a "permissive" shutdown - notify and do it...

Getting it shutdown will make having the modulated channels in my house distribution work SO much better and easier to get a good picture.

Aren't we already in a permissive shut-down stage? I thought any station could end analog within 90 days if they provided proper notice.

Senate Republicans have blocked the delay, at least for this week. See the delay thread for info.

Scooper, I couldn't agree more. I am in the same situation as you with respect to modulated channels. In fact, I had to scrap my "in-house" channels until the transition is complete. Even here in a rural area, I was getting interference from analogs.

Aren't we already in a permissive shut-down stage? I thought any station could end analog within 90 days if they provided proper notice.

Yes. All stations SHOULD now be running a crawl (as ot today I believe it is, by tomorrow for sure) that states within the next 30 days their analog broadcasts will end. Of course if Congress delays the transition, who knows what the FCC will want stations to do.

I am hearing some rumors of major stations in some markets are just going to say the heck with it and shut down Feb 17th no matter what happens. Others are determined to remain until the very end. Looks like it will vary from station to station and market to market if the date is pushed.

Looks like it will vary from station to station and market to market if the date is pushed.

What a mess. Stations who are waiting for an analog to clear out won't be able to throw the switch. Stations with an interest in keeping the other station at a signal disadvantage will be able to keep their analog on and screw them over.

And meanwhile all those poor senile shut-ins who can't figure out how to turn on their converter boxes get to do a channel scan every few days, and hundreds of analog UHFs will continue to flush 3 million watts of electricity (and the money required to purchase same) down the toilet.

Won't it be entertaining if McCain's idea of postponing the transition except for 52 and up is in the final legislation.

Won't it be entertaining if McCain's idea of postponing the transition except for 52 and up is in the final legislation.RF56 & RF58 MUST wait for analog shutoff for their post-transition slots in my DMA.

RF56 & RF58 MUST wait for analog shutoff for their post-transition slots in my DMA.

KRCA Riverside/Los Angeles will be off the air if that goes through. Analog 62, digital 68, post-transition 35 (currently occupied by KMEX-DT).

Won't it be entertaining if McCain's idea of postponing the transition except for 52 and up is in the final legislation.I know a few lesser-network stations in Des Moines, IA could be in real trouble.

The Ion (formerly Pax), CW and MyNetwork stations came on too late for paired channels. Ion and CW are analog-only, and My is digital only. The My station currently hosts the CW station as an HD subchannel, allowing HD CW until the CW station itself can flash-cut. Problem is, the My station is on channel 56, and the plan is to move it to 31, though they've applied to move it to 19 ... but BOTH 31 and 19 are occupied by the DTs of the CBS and NBC affiliates until they transition back to their original VHFs of 8 and 13. So unless the CW (on channel 23) is permitted to go on with the flash-cut as scheduled, or the CBS and/or NBC stations go ahead with the transition regardless, there goes the CW HD and My of any kind.

I can see your head spinning as you read that. I know mine is ... :D

This is what happens when the only people we elect to government office are lawyers and businessmen.

Perhaps as a society we might want to push for more engineers and scientists and just plain geeks to get into government.

The problem with the transition is that the vast majority of the people legislating weren't even aware antennas still existed until someone mentioned it to them last week.

POST-TRANSITION DTV TABLE OF ALLOTMENTS, 47 C.F.R. § 73.622(I), RIO GRANDE CITY, TEXAS. Changed station KTLM-DT's DTV channel from 20 to 40. Proceeding Terminated. (Dkt No. RM-11471, 08-141). Action by: Chief, Video Division, Media Bureau. Adopted: 01/13/2009 by R&O. (DA No. 09-37). MB DA-09-37A1.doc DA-09-37A1.pdf DA-09-37A1.txt

I know a few lesser-network stations in Des Moines, IA could be in real trouble.

The Ion (formerly Pax), CW and MyNetwork stations came on too late for paired channels. Ion and CW are analog-only, and My is digital only. The My station currently hosts the CW station as an HD subchannel, allowing HD CW until the CW station itself can flash-cut. Problem is, the My station is on channel 56, and the plan is to move it to 31, though they've applied to move it to 19 ... but BOTH 31 and 19 are occupied by the DTs of the CBS and NBC affiliates until they transition back to their original VHFs of 8 and 13. So unless the CW (on channel 23) is permitted to go on with the flash-cut as scheduled, or the CBS and/or NBC stations go ahead with the transition regardless, there goes the CW HD and My of any kind.

I can see your head spinning as you read that. I know mine is ... :D

Even more confusing, and fascinating, is the fact that KDMI (MyTV) not only wants to move to WHO's (NBC) pre-transition frequency, 19, they want to move into WHO's pre-transition facilities, which are at a separate tower from their analog and post-transition digital.

Even more confusing, and fascinating, is the fact that KDMI (MyTV) not only wants to move to WHO's (NBC) pre-transition frequency, 19, they want to move into WHO's pre-transition facilities, which are at a separate tower from their analog and post-transition digital.

What is so strange about that? WHO sells a transmission it doesn't need, and KDMI doesn't have to build another site. I do think that WHO has a LMA with KDMI so it is still all in the family.

The Des Moines market did digital right. All the current digital signals operate within a mile or so of their analog counterparts, if not on the same tower. So, KDMI seeking to change from 31 (KCCI-DT) to WHO-DTs 19 won't create any aiming problems for viewers' antennas.

Not sure what happened with KCCI's deal to sell 31 to KDMI. Only speculation here, but KCCI built its own tower in the 70s while the other 3 Vs on the air built a shared tower. The KCCI tower is not as beefy as the other two 2000 footers. Prior to DT-31, there hasn't been another major load on the KCCI tower. KCCI mgmt may have decided the extra tower rent isn't worth the risk, or American Tower, who owns the "digital" tower may have shot KDMI a better deal. And goodness knows that KDMI's owner Pappas needs all the help it can get.

I found this interesting:
WQED MULTIMEDIA'S DIRECTOR OF ENGINEERING CONDUCTED MANY TELEPHONE CONSULTATIONS REGARDING HOW TO OBTAIN AND CONNECT THE DIGITAL CONVERTER BOXES, AND THE DIGITAL TV TRANSITION PROCESS IN GENERAL. HE ALSO VISITED SOME HOMES TO ASSIST WITH CONNECTING CONVERTER BOXES.

I did not know TV engineers still made house calls. :)

(Lifted from WQEX's DTV Quarterly Activity Station Report (http://fjallfoss.fcc.gov/cdbs/cdbs_docs/388_101.cfm?form=388_101.cfm&acct=0&appn=101288156&fac_num=41314&formid=388))

Not sure what happened with KCCI's deal to sell 31 to KDMI. Only speculation here, but KCCI built its own tower in the 70s while the other 3 Vs on the air built a shared tower. The KCCI tower is not as beefy as the other two 2000 footers. Prior to DT-31, there hasn't been another major load on the KCCI tower. KCCI mgmt may have decided the extra tower rent isn't worth the risk, or American Tower, who owns the "digital" tower may have shot KDMI a better deal. And goodness knows that KDMI's owner Pappas needs all the help it can get.Also figuring into this: Pappas can keep all its central Iowa operations on one tower if KDMI just takes over WHO-DT's transmitter.

Right now, KDMI-DT and KCWI analog share the newest, northernmost tower in the Alleman, IA cluster with WHO-DT. By taking over WHO-DT, they'll only need to lease space on one tower rather than dealing with two companies. I don't even think they'll even need a new studio link; they'll just need to connect their existing link to a different transmitter. Their crew may not even need to leave the ground to do this.

I found this interesting:


I did not know TV engineers still made house calls. :)

(Lifted from WQEX's DTV Quarterly Activity Station Report (http://fjallfoss.fcc.gov/cdbs/cdbs_docs/388_101.cfm?form=388_101.cfm&acct=0&appn=101288156&fac_num=41314&formid=388))

Yep, sometimes we do!

I found this interesting:


I did not know TV engineers still made house calls. :)

(Lifted from WQEX's DTV Quarterly Activity Station Report (http://fjallfoss.fcc.gov/cdbs/cdbs_docs/388_101.cfm?form=388_101.cfm&acct=0&appn=101288156&fac_num=41314&formid=388))

That's great. And if I wasn't capable of DIY, I wouldn't mind paying one to hook my gear up. A one time payment can't be beat.:)

We discussed this issue before, but has anyone seen an estimate of how many stations with a post-transition digital channel that is currently blocked by another analog station in their coverage area? I wonder if the FCC or the NAB has put together a list or stated some number? Or has anyone taken a shot at putting together a list?

I found this interesting:


I did not know TV engineers still made house calls. :)

(Lifted from WQEX's DTV Quarterly Activity Station Report (http://fjallfoss.fcc.gov/cdbs/cdbs_docs/388_101.cfm?form=388_101.cfm&acct=0&appn=101288156&fac_num=41314&formid=388))

He must be getting paid well!!!

I help friends with their setups for free......but others, I charge....

Today's 02/17/09 flash-cut STAs:

New Vision:
KSNG
KSNT

California-Oregon:
KOBI

Hoak:
KABY
KSFY
KQCD
KUMV
KNOE
KAQY
WMBB

Prairie Public TV:
KBME
KSRE
KJRE

- Trip

Today's 02/17/09 flash-cut STAs:

Granite:
WTVH
WBNG
WKBW
WMYD
WISE
WEEK
KBJR
KOFY
KSEE

EDIT: Add stations from APTV and SCETV.

I don't see any more filings coming in, so I'll go ahead and post this now.

- Trip

I am sorry I know this a newb question but by flash cut, what does that exactly mean? Also, is there a list of networks participating in the flashlight program? Thanks Charlie

I am sorry I know this a newb question but by flash cut, what does that exactly mean? Also, is there a list of networks participating in the flashlight program? Thanks Charlie

What the term means and how the FCC uses it are two different things.

In your area, for example, had WSKA-30 in Corning signed on analog, the act of turning off the analog and turning on the digital on the same channel is a flash-cut.

The FCC has been using the term to refer to anyone shutting off analog and operating digital-only, regardless of channel numbers involved. Similarly, stations moving from one channel to another have also been noted that way.

There's no list of nightlight stations yet because many stations haven't said whether or not they will participate. There's a list of stations eligible for the program, but that has way more stations than will be participating I think.

- Trip

Thank you for your help Trip

I am trying to determine what type of antenna I will need after the transition to all-digital. We have several local stations currently transmitting analog in the VHF (2-13) band and simultaniously transmitting digital in the UHF band. After the transition to all-digital, if they move their digital transmissions back down to the VHF band, I will need a VHF antenna to receive their digital signals, but if they keep their transmissions up on the UHF band, I can just keep on using my UHF antenna and not have to buy a VHF antenna. So my question is: How can I find out what they are planning to do? I am aware of the "rabbitears" website but I do not understand many of their seemingly undefined terms and abbreviations.

use the Website www.tvinfo.com . Enter your address with zip.

select post transition digital.
you will see a chart with several columns. look at the one that says real channel (not virtual). This is the REAL RF channel number the station is planning on being n after they shutdown analog and are strictly digital.

2-6 = Low VHF
7-13 = High VHF
14-51 = UHF
base your antenna needs on the "real" channel.

I am trying to determine what type of antenna I will need after the transition to all-digital. We have several local stations currently transmitting analog in the VHF (2-13) band and simultaniously transmitting digital in the UHF band. After the transition to all-digital, if they move their digital transmissions back down to the VHF band, I will need a VHF antenna to receive their digital signals, but if they keep their transmissions up on the UHF band, I can just keep on using my UHF antenna and not have to buy a VHF antenna. So my question is: How can I find out what they are planning to do? I am aware of the "rabbitears" website but I do not understand many of their seemingly undefined terms and abbreviations.

http://www.tvfool.com

Enter your address. You'll get a screen listing all your local stations, their signal strengths (strongest at the top), directions, and real and virtual channel numbers. There are circles at the top that you can click to see on which channels the stations (analog and digital) are now and where they'll be after February 17th (or whenever the transition happens).

I am trying to determine what type of antenna I will need after the transition to all-digital. We have several local stations currently transmitting analog in the VHF (2-13) band and simultaniously transmitting digital in the UHF band. After the transition to all-digital, if they move their digital transmissions back down to the VHF band, I will need a VHF antenna to receive their digital signals, but if they keep their transmissions up on the UHF band, I can just keep on using my UHF antenna and not have to buy a VHF antenna. So my question is: How can I find out what they are planning to do? I am aware of the "rabbitears" website but I do not understand many of their seemingly undefined terms and abbreviations.

Which of my terms and abbreviations do you not understand? In the listings, I clearly list the physical channel number, with an arrow pointing to its post transition channel (if it's moving). In the Digital Transitional Reports, I have a guide to what each column means although I don't have the DI (Interim Digital) and DF (Final Digital) abbreviations clearly stated.

- Trip

use the Website www.tvinfo.com . Enter your address with zip.

select post transition digital.
you will see a chart with several columns. look at the one that says real channel (not virtual). This is the REAL RF channel number the station is planning on being n after they shutdown analog and are strictly digital.

2-6 = Low VHF
7-13 = High VHF
14-51 = UHF
base your antenna needs on the "real" channel.

I don't know what that link is supposed to be (tvfool?) but it doesn't go where you think it goes.

- Trip

http://www.tvfool.com

Enter your address. You'll get a screen listing all your local stations, their signal strengths (strongest at the top), directions, and real and virtual channel numbers. There are circles at the top that you can click to see on which channels the stations (analog and digital) are now and where they'll be after February 17th (or whenever the transition happens).
Thanks. It looks like there will be no changes after the transition to all-digital.

Add to the list of stations filing to go on or before 02/17/09: (I didn't look at all of them, just sampled them)

Blade stations
ComCorp stations
WLAE

I've also found something interesting on the Rabbit Ears database--stations are being listed as "silent" with a status date of "02/17/09" despite a lack of notable STA requests. There must be some kind of other filing going on behind the scenes which I am not aware of. I'll attempt to throw together a list tomorrow.

- Trip

http://www.rabbitears.info/termlist.php

I put together that list I mentioned. There it is.

- Trip

Trip, I see KXLT is listed for tentative shutdown on February 15, 2009, how did you did you get this and the other dates? Do these stations have to wait for FCC approval, or is this their definite shutdown date? (getting cool, we are getting close, finally analogs be gone!)

It's listed in my site's database, which pulls its data from the FCC. It's only available on the back end and I really don't have a way to make that public without doing a bunch of code work I don't have time to do.

What the database has is a license status, which is usually LICEN, but on the stations listed, is LICSL (SL = Silent). It then gives a status date for the license, and I've listed the stations by that status date. I don't know where the FCC is getting its data from, as I can find no filings to back it up, but it seems sound.

- Trip

It's listed in my site's database, which pulls its data from the FCC. It's only available on the back end and I really don't have a way to make that public without doing a bunch of code work I don't have time to do.

What the database has is a license status, which is usually LICEN, but on the stations listed, is LICSL (SL = Silent). It then gives a status date for the license, and I've listed the stations by that status date. I don't know where the FCC is getting its data from, as I can find no filings to back it up, but it seems sound.

- Trip

Cool, thanks for the info:)

...(getting cool, we are getting close, finally analogs be gone!)Or not (?)
http://www.pcmag.com/article2/0,2817,2339487,00.asp?kc=PCRSS03069TX1K0001121

Or not (?)
http://www.pcmag.com/article2/0,2817,2339487,00.asp?kc=PCRSS03069TX1K0001121I prefer analog to stay longer since it is better with weaker. Last night, heavy rain made me lose KTLA 5.1 (Smallville). My signal strengths jumped all over (no lock, 3% to 80%; usually almost 100%). Analog had NO problems. :)

Senator Hutchison:I had serious concerns about shifting the digital television transition without a sound plan to inform consumers Wonder how he came up with that?

Senator Hutchison:Wonder how he came up with that?

She, not he.

There must be some kind of other filing going on behind the scenes which I am not aware of.

- Trip

I don't know if this is what you were referring to but, last Friday (1/16/06) the FCC promulgated a new rule that basically said, "I you plan on ceasing analog transmissions on 2/17/09 you must notify the FCC 30 days in advance". Which meant that you had to notify them by this past Monday - which was a holiday. I'm told our Washington lawyers were busy last Friday writing letters. Our three remaining analog stations, WEDH, WEDN, WEDW (we shut down WEDY 2-1/2 years ago), are planning on ceasing analog at midnight 2/17/09, period.

I've been busy this week so I haven't had a chance to go the the FCC website to research this but maybe FoxEng has more info.

I don't know if this is what you were referring to but, last Friday (1/16/06) the FCC promulgated a new rule that basically said, "I you plan on ceasing analog transmissions on 2/17/09 you must notify the FCC 30 days in advance". Which meant that you had to notify them by this past Monday - which was a holiday. I'm told our Washington lawyers were busy last Friday writing letters. Our three remaining analog stations, WEDH, WEDN, WEDW (we shut down WEDY 2-1/2 years ago), are planning on ceasing analog at midnight 2/17/09, period.

I've been busy this week so I haven't had a chance to go the the FCC website to research this but maybe FoxEng has more info.

See, your stations are listed as "LICSL" with a status date of 02/17/09, but I've found no STA requests or any kind of paperwork to support it aside from the changed status.

- Trip

I don't know if this is what you were referring to but, last Friday (1/16/06) the FCC promulgated a new rule that basically said, "I you plan on ceasing analog transmissions on 2/17/09 you must notify the FCC 30 days in advance". Which meant that you had to notify them by this past Monday - which was a holiday. I'm told our Washington lawyers were busy last Friday writing letters. Our three remaining analog stations, WEDH, WEDN, WEDW (we shut down WEDY 2-1/2 years ago), are planning on ceasing analog at midnight 2/17/09, period.

I've been busy this week so I haven't had a chance to go the the FCC website to research this but maybe FoxEng has more info.

This seems very strange. I would think any station whose finale digital channel was its old analog channel has already told the FCC that its analog station would be off after Feb. 17. This also seems to be requiring stations that do not notify the FCC that they are shutting down to remain on the air. This is a violation of present law for non nightlight analog transmissions and I didn’t think the FCC would have that authority.
John

To Trip or anyone here,

What's up with WVER and WMUR? Both have been assigned channel 9 post-transition but looking at the coverage maps it looks like them sharing channel 9 would be a disaster. I'm not really sure how to dig around the FCC databases but I don't really see anything.

This seems very strange. I would think any station whose finale digital channel was its old analog channel has already told the FCC that its analog station would be off after Feb. 17. This also seems to be requiring stations that do not notify the FCC that they are shutting down to remain on the air. This is a violation of present law for non nightlight analog transmissions and I didn’t think the FCC would have that authority.
Johnctdish, you are correct.

February 17 is an act of Congress, and unless and until Congress changes the date and the president signs that change, the date is what it is. Look up any renewal authorization for a full-power TV station over the past few years and it will say that it is "subject to the condition that no later than February 17, 2009 the licensee shall surrender either its analog or its digital television channel for reallocation or reassignment persuant to Commission regulations. The channel retained by the licensee will be used to broadcast digital television only after that date."

This seems very strange. I would think any station whose finale digital channel was its old analog channel has already told the FCC that its analog station would be off after Feb. 17. This also seems to be requiring stations that do not notify the FCC that they are shutting down to remain on the air. This is a violation of present law for non nightlight analog transmissions and I didn’t think the FCC would have that authority.
John

Congress creates the broad struck of the law. It is then up to the governmental agency tasked to oversee that that part to come up with the fine details of how that law is to be implemented. That is why the FCC was tasked to make the transition happen and the NTIA (Commerce Department) tasked to make the coupon program run. Congress didn't go out and take bids for the contract to do the work for the coupon program, NTIA did that. Congress didn't care other than get it done.

To Trip or anyone here,

What's up with WVER and WMUR? Both have been assigned channel 9 post-transition but looking at the coverage maps it looks like them sharing channel 9 would be a disaster. I'm not really sure how to dig around the FCC databases but I don't really see anything.

There's some very rough terrain between the two of them, which very likely cuts one off from the other, though I don't have any plots like that handy to check with.

- Trip

How many analog stations will stay on after 2/17 if the delay bill is passed? If analog stations are REQUIRED to stay on until 6/12 this will mess up stations which will be flash-cutting. Also, many stations did not budget for the electric bill to keep the analogs up past 2/17.

How many analog stations will stay on after 2/17 if the delay bill is passed?

Great question, but who knows what the answer will be IF this delay proposal is approved......

Digital Transition Notes
Hutchison: June 12 Would Be Final DTV Date
Says serious concerns have been assuaged by the changes made to Sen. Jay Rockefeller's bill
By John Eggerton, Broadcasting & Cable Washington Bureau Chief, 1/23/2009
http://www.broadcastingcable.com/article/print/162623-Hutchison_June_12_Would_Be_Final_DTV_Date.php


Interesting line from this article....."Now the bill 1) makes explicit that the move to June 12 is voluntary--stations can switch Feb. 17 if they wish, or between that date and the new hard date." This will really help those OTA analog-only TV viewers between Feb. 17 and June 12!

And this is a possible outcome, too...............

Digital Transition Notes
Barton Introduces Bill To Unclog Coupons
Ranking Republican's bill would not move DTV date
By John Eggerton, Broadcasting & Cable Washington Bureau Chief, 1/23/2009
http://www.broadcastingcable.com/article/162619-Barton_Introduces_Bill_To_Unclog_Coupons.php

I have posted a new version of the DTV Channels spreadsheet onto the Rabbit Ears site. Please see my signature for a link to the page.

Station details:

* 1042: operating Post-Transition facilities
* 159: with maximized Construction Permits but otherwise ready
* 311: to end analog operations early
* 180: have already ended (or will not commence) analog operations (included in the 311)
* 127: will end analog operations on 2/17/09, even if the transition is delayed (in addition to the 311 above)

These pending bills are straightforward in the analog turnoff, allowing it to happen between Feb 17 and June 12. They don't seem to address that some digital stations are changing channels. It seems like the FCC will have to come up with some rules for these stations quickly. The simplest thing would be to not allow any digital channel changes before June 12.
John

See, your stations are listed as "LICSL" with a status date of 02/17/09, but I've found no STA requests or any kind of paperwork to support it aside from the changed status.

- Trip

My understanding from our VP Eng and DoE is that it is not a STA, only a letter of notification. We have complied. Don't know if it would show up on the FCC website yet. See below - it has.

Here's a snip from the DoE's 1/17/09 post:
FYI:

WEDW DT-52 is tentatively scheduled to cease operation on Tuesday January 27, 2009, in order to re-tune the digital exciters and channel / mask filter for operation on DT-49 and to move the filter output to an existing spare input on the existing channel 49 transmitter / antenna / dummy load switch.

This will allow WEDW Ch 49 analog to continue operation until midnight (11:59:59 PM) February 17, 2009. Then upon the WEDW Ch 49 analog turn-off, the transmitter / antenna / dummy load switch will be remotely activated to changed to the WEDW DT-49 transmitter, thereby placing it on air, but now at the top of the tower on the main Ch 49 antenna.

Due to new FCC rules posted to broadcasters this week, CPTV filed on Friday January 16, 2009, to cease all analog OTA transmissions at midnight (11:59:59 PM), February 17, 2009.

The CPTV digital OTA transmissions will then join the 21st century, with the intention to leave all digital OTA transmitters on-air 24/7.
__________________
Z

Just found this:
http://fjallfoss.fcc.gov/cgi-bin/ws.exe/prod/cdbs/forms/prod/cdbsmenu.hts?context=25&appn=101290293&formid=910&fac_num=13594

The simplest thing would be to not allow any digital channel changes before June 12.
And how would THAT help? Some stations have done flash cuts and moved their digital channels already. The count I have from the Jan. 5 version of Falcon_77's spreadsheet is that 628 stations will have a different post-transition DT channel from the pre-trans DT channel. Are all of those who have not moved by Feb. 17 supposed to stay on their pre-trans DT channel even if they are blocking another station from firing up a digital broadcast signal? Rescans are not that hard to do, even if it confuses people who don't understand why they need to do a scan in the first place.

I only thought it would be the simplest rule for the FCC to come up with. They don't have much time. Around here pretty much every station interferes with some other station so any change would seem to require an interference study. This would probably be out of date before it could be approved if analog stations shut down at different times and other digital channels make a switch.
John

* 311: to end analog operations early
* 180: have already ended (or will not commence) analog operations (included in the 311)
* 127: will end analog operations on 2/17/09, even if the transition is delayed (in addition to the 311 above)
It will be interesting to see if 100s of more Feb. 17 shutdown filings show up early next week since they may not have gotten submitted until this week and whoever processes them may be backlogged on entering them into the CDBS database.

There are still a lot of legislative steps that have to be taken before a postponement of the Feb. 17 shutdown is passed by the Senate and the House. Bills have to be voted on by committees, then passed by the Senate and the House, and if the bills are different, then go off to a joint Senate/House committee to hammer out the differences and then get re-voted on. The clock could well run out if one influential Senator or House committee chairman stalls it. Hardly a done deal yet.

Still, a good subject for a deal pool contest - so to speak. :D How many full power stations will have their analog broadcast shut down by February 18? 500? 800? 1800? (1809 would be the number if no postponement). The winner with the closest correct number could get a small, cheap, B&W analog only CRT TV. Or just kudos from his/her avsforum members. :D

Ah, okay. I saw the documentation for WEDW, but there's no similar documentation showing up yet for WEDH or WEDN. Just that updated date. Maybe the FCC doesn't list those notices publicly?

- Trip

Ah, okay. I saw the documentation for WEDW, but there's no similar documentation showing up yet for WEDH or WEDN. Just that updated date. Maybe the FCC doesn't list those notices publicly?

- Trip
It's there, Trip. You just have to look for it.;)

WEDH:
http://fjallfoss.fcc.gov/cgi-bin/ws.exe/prod/cdbs/forms/prod/cdbsmenu.hts?context=25&appn=101290289&formid=910&fac_num=13602

WEDN:
http://fjallfoss.fcc.gov/cgi-bin/ws.exe/prod/cdbs/forms/prod/cdbsmenu.hts?context=25&appn=101290291&formid=910&fac_num=13607

WEDW:
http://fjallfoss.fcc.gov/cgi-bin/ws.exe/prod/cdbs/forms/prod/cdbsmenu.hts?context=25&appn=101290293&formid=910&fac_num=13594

WEDY:
http://fjallfoss.fcc.gov/cgi-bin/ws.exe/prod/cdbs/forms/prod/cdbsmenu.hts?context=25&appn=101290294&formid=910&fac_num=13595

It's there, Trip. You just have to look for it.;)

WEDH:
http://fjallfoss.fcc.gov/cgi-bin/ws.exe/prod/cdbs/forms/prod/cdbsmenu.hts?context=25&appn=101290289&formid=910&fac_num=13602

WEDN:
http://fjallfoss.fcc.gov/cgi-bin/ws.exe/prod/cdbs/forms/prod/cdbsmenu.hts?context=25&appn=101290291&formid=910&fac_num=13607

WEDW:
http://fjallfoss.fcc.gov/cgi-bin/ws.exe/prod/cdbs/forms/prod/cdbsmenu.hts?context=25&appn=101290293&formid=910&fac_num=13594

WEDY:
http://fjallfoss.fcc.gov/cgi-bin/ws.exe/prod/cdbs/forms/prod/cdbsmenu.hts?context=25&appn=101290294&formid=910&fac_num=13595

I must be looking in the wrong place then, as I can't seem to find them unless I'm linked directly to them. Where are you searching to find them?

- Trip

I must be looking in the wrong place then, as I can't seem to find them unless I'm linked directly to them. Where are you searching to find them?

- Trip

1. Go to the FCC TV Query page:
http://www.fcc.gov/fcc-bin/audio/tvq.html

2. Enter the call sign in the box; Hit Enter

3. In the left column, click any of the "Call" signs

4. After the CDBS click "Station Info"

5. Click "Check for Details" for the "Licensed and Silent"

6. Go down to the Correspondence Folder and click "View Correspondence Folder".

7. Click "Click to View Filing" after the "Silent Notification"

You should now be seeing the FCC Form 3060-0386 "Notice of Suspension of Operations".

1. Go to the FCC TV Query page:
http://www.fcc.gov/fcc-bin/audio/tvq.html

2. Enter the call sign in the box; Hit Enter

3. In the left column, click any of the "Call" signs

4. After the CDBS click "Station Info"

5. Click "Check for Details" for the "Licensed and Silent"

6. Go down to the Correspondence Folder and click "View Correspondence Folder".

7. Click "Click to View Filing" after the "Silent Notification"

You should now be seeing the FCC Form 3060-0386 "Notice of Suspension of Operations".

That is in a completely different place from where I would have expected it to be. I've never ever seen anything of value in the Correspondence Folders of local stations before. Thanks.

- Trip

I've never ever seen anything of value in the Correspondence Folders of local stations before. Thanks.

- Trip

Me, too. :D

Thank you for the instructions, mdodge, I will have to check the LA stations to see if any of them have this.

I found it amusing that the Station Search Details still shows WEDH's DT channel as 32.

Still, a good subject for a deal pool contest - so to speak. :D How many full power stations will have their analog broadcast shut down by February 18? 500? 800? 1800? (1809 would be the number if no postponement). The winner with the closest correct number could get a small, cheap, B&W analog only CRT TV. Or just kudos from his/her avsforum members. :D

In the tradition of The Price is Right, I bid the highest bid +1 :)


Seriously, I know it will be more than half........KUHT is Houston has been running 30min programs concerning the digital cutover...and they have NOT even mentioned anything about a delay pending, etc..now if the 1st PBS station in the US is ignoring it, I bet the others will too.....
The longer a delay, the longer the stations in smaller markets have to wait to maximize (three in my market alone)...with the tower crew schedules already, a delay could push the maximizations back to winter...NOT GOOD!! Along the Gulf Coast we need the TV for tropical storm tracking....Lets just get it over with and done......for the folks in the NE, if grandpa doesnt want to get out on the snowy roof to fix his antenna he should have a year ago, then send his grandson out!!! Or hire someone....good time to be in the antenna biz...(and I know...I do it on the side :)

Here in Albuquerque, NM KOAT-TV will shut off analog on 2-10-09 in order to swap the transmitter and go digital channel 7 and run at 26.5 KW ERP, on 2-17-09.

At the same time they will also shut down digital channel 21 transmitter on 2-17-09!:)

I am sure all the the analog station's owners, will snub congress critters that we are keep going on plan to shutdown the analog's signal on 2-17-09 regardless of this proposed bill being passed or not by delaying the shutdown's date to 6-12-09.:p:D

1-25-09

Six stations will be getting added to the "analog silent on 02/17/09" list.

KYNE
KHNE
KLNE
WTVF
WFWA
KTTU

Haven't done it yet, but hopefully will this evening.

- Trip

I missed it, but KOLO killed analog on 01/12.

These are now also listed as going on time:

OPB (all stations)
KLAS
KNPB

WHLV will operate at 50% power through the end of the transition, regardless of date.

- Trip

Turns out KTTU went silent on 01/22/09. Probably transmitter failure.

My list on my site should now be up to date.

- Trip

That is not surprising. I couldn't even detect it from the Tucson airport last month, but they were probably still running at 10% power (if that) after their equipment failures in October.

Would the station let you know before they turn it off

like KTVU 2 Fox

Add to the list of silent stations WDSC in New Smyrna Beach, FL. That one went silent on 12/15/08 and I missed it.

Stations are supposed to provide 30 days of notice, but if their transmitter fails, they can't really do that. There have been a good number of both.

- Trip

STAs to kill analog are coming in:

Saga (WXVT, KAVU, KOMU)
Sinclair (WXLV, etc) Missing notables: WDKY, WSYX, WLOS.
KOMU
WWCP/WATM
WFSB/KVVU (no evidence of other Meredith stations yet)
WAND

That's it for the evening. The full list is in the segmented off at the bottom on my page here: http://www.rabbitears.info/termlist.php

So which Sinclair stations are missing? I noted WDKY, WSYX, WLOS, WMSN, WRDC/WLFL, WSTR... there might be more tomorrow. Though I can see why they'd keep the ones they're trying to get the channels changed on the air.

- Trip

Add to the list:

WYTV
KCEN
KAWE
KAWB
WTGS

Also, WKCF in Orlando is at reduced power.

- Trip

Thanks for the updates, Trip.

I don't see any ION station filings. Can you recall any?

With the above, the count of stations to end analog operations on or before 2/17/09 is up to 503.

I don't see any ION station filings. Can you recall any?

With the above, the count of stations to end analog operations on or before 2/17/09 is up to 503.
Besides Ion, what about Nexstar, Belo, and other companies that own a number of smaller market stations? If Ion and several other larger holding companies decide they are going to shut down all of their stations that are at their post-trans digital channel, that would increase the 503 count quickly.

Nexstar has plead serious financial issues to the FCC in the past on needing more time to build out digital broadcasts for many of their stations. If they have money problems, major incentive to pull the plug on analog where feasible. WHAG-DT NBC 25 in my area is a Nexstar station which has been stuck at 900 Watts on UHF 55 for years (and with UHF 55 constrained by Qualcomm MedioFlo). Someone watching WHAG news last night posted that he thought they said they would shut analog down on Feb. 15. But WHAG-DT can't fire up it post-transition DT 26 channel until WETA-TV PBS 26 in DC goes dark.

Don't have details but the House has voted to NOT push the Transition date. Feb 17th is STILL the date.

Finally, some sanity is prevailing!

Thanks for the updates, Trip.

I don't see any ION station filings. Can you recall any?

With the above, the count of stations to end analog operations on or before 2/17/09 is up to 503.

None yet. I'll be watching for them.

Besides Ion, what about Nexstar, Belo, and other companies that own a number of smaller market stations? If Ion and several other larger holding companies decide they are going to shut down all of their stations that are at their post-trans digital channel, that would increase the 503 count quickly.

Nexstar has plead serious financial issues to the FCC in the past on needing more time to build out digital broadcasts for many of their stations. If they have money problems, major incentive to pull the plug on analog where feasible. WHAG-DT NBC 25 in my area is a Nexstar station which has been stuck at 900 Watts on UHF 55 for years (and with UHF 55 constrained by Qualcomm MedioFlo). Someone watching WHAG news last night posted that he thought they said they would shut analog down on Feb. 15. But WHAG-DT can't fire up it post-transition DT 26 channel until WETA-TV PBS 26 in DC goes dark.

I think Nexstar will still go on time, regardless. They'll keep analogs on anywhere their digital isn't ready, and kill them everywhere else. That's my thought, anyway.

Other companies, who knows.

Don't have details but the House has voted to NOT push the Transition date. Feb 17th is STILL the date.

Nice!

- Trip

From TV Week:

The House of Representatives today rejected an attempt to immediately pass legislation delaying the digital-TV transition.

While the House voted 258 to 168 to suspend its rules and pass a delay, the measure failed to get the required two-thirds majority of House members needed.

http://www.tvweek.com/news/2009/01/house_stalls_vote_on_dtvswitch.php

From Broadcasting and Cable:

DTV-Delay Bill Fails To Pass In House
House votes 258-168 against pushing back DTV transition
By John Eggerton -- Broadcasting & Cable, 1/28/2009 11:02:08 AM MT

Related:

The DTV Countdown - Complete Coverage of the DTV Transition

Barton, Stearns Ask Pelosi To Delay DTV Vote

The House Wednesday failed to follow the Senate's lead and pass a DTV date-change bill, putting the move of the DTV transition date in doubt after all the momentum seemed to be moving toward the four-month delay to June 12.

It was also something of a defeat for the Obama administration, which had pushed Congress to move the date, citing the problems in distributing DTV-to-analog converter box coupons and a lack of funding for DTV education. Republicans pushed back hard, saying it was a solution in search of a problem.

The vote was 258 to 168.

A spokesperson for Energy & Commerce Committee Chairman Henry Waxman (D-CA) had no immediate comment on what the next move will be, but ranking Republican Joe Barton (R-TX) has a bill that would pump more money into the coupon box program without moving the date.

The Senate had passed a compromise bill Monday by unanimous consent, and Waxman had cancelled a markup on his DTV date change bill to get behind the Senate version.

But while no Republican senator opposed the bill, and Kay Bailey Hutchison, the ranking member of the Senate Commerce Committee, actively supported the compromise bill, the House was an entirely different story.

The House had debated the bill Tuesday night, with a parade of Republicans in opposition and only House Telecommunications & Internet Subcommittee Chairman Rick Boucher holding down the fort for the bill's proponents.

The Energy & Commerce Committee's ranking member, Joe Barton, was dead set against moving the date, calling it a potential disaster and saying the $650 million being set aside for reissued coupons for millions of people was a pot of money in search of a problem.

It didn't help that Republican leadership put out a policy statement Tuesday saying "House Republicans oppose any further delay in the deadline."

The momentum had appeared to be clearly in favor of the bill's passage.

Certainly the industry seemed to think the die had been cast. The National Association of Broadcasters, the major networks, wireless companies waiting for reclaimed analog TV spectrum, and the principal ad agency and advertiser lobby groups had gotten behind the change, at least publicly. Barton said many in the media still, privately, were arguing against the move.

After debate on the bill Tuesday night, one Washington TV station was already warning viewers on its Tuesday night newscast that the DTV transition it had been telling them was coming Feb. 17 might be delayed by four months.

House leadership had scheduled a Wednesday vote on the bill on suspension, which is the House's version of an expedited vote with limited debate, no amendments, and a 2/3 majority required for approval. The idea was to get the bill passed as fast as possible given that the DTV date is only three weeks away.

http://www.broadcastingcable.com/article/162898-DTV_Delay_Bill_Fails_To_Pass_In_House.php

Refresh me on parliamentary procedure if I'm wrong, but doesn't this vote simply move the bill to floor debate?

Admittedly, with more pressing matters, a floor debate probably does effectively kill the bill with only three weeks to the transition. You have to imagine the stimulus bill gets passed before this bill gets a floor debate.

But, this falls short of an actual no vote.

So it's Feb 17 or bust

Actually it's Feb 17 or another House bill ...

Refresh me on parliamentary procedure if I'm wrong, but doesn't this vote simply move the bill to floor debate?

Admittedly, with more pressing matters, a floor debate probably does effectively kill the bill with only three weeks to the transition. You have to imagine the stimulus bill gets passed before this bill gets a floor debate.

But, this falls short of an actual no vote.

Many things can happen. But I'm not sure when they suspend House rules and go straight to a vote. Generally the procedure is sub-committee, committee, floor proposal, debate, amendments are sent back to sub-committee and the process is repeated until its killed or passed. Then it moves to the other side (Senate or House). So I guess if its debated, it could be revoted on as is, or debated and changes made and if the changes are accepted, would go BACK to the Senate for approval. However the Senate did unanimously pass the bill. Then it would come back to the House for Approval. The Senate could have made changes there and the process repeats.

It's no wonder why Gov't is so slow

Refresh me on parliamentary procedure if I'm wrong, but doesn't this vote simply move the bill to floor debate?

Admittedly, with more pressing matters, a floor debate probably does effectively kill the bill with only three weeks to the transition. You have to imagine the stimulus bill gets passed before this bill gets a floor debate.

But, this falls short of an actual no vote.

If it does go to a debate, the descending group can filibuster (talk and talk) until 2/17 since a 2/3 majority is required to block a filibuster. I think that was the point of skipping house rules and proceeding to a vote.

If it does go to a debate, the descending group can filibuster (talk and talk) until 2/17 since a 2/3 majority is required to block a filibuster. I think that was the point of skipping house rules and proceeding to a vote.The House has cloture rules that limit debate.  Filibusters are possible only in the Senate.

From Broadcasting and Cable:

[i]DTV-Delay Bill Fails To Pass In House
House votes 258-168 against pushing back DTV transition
By John Eggerton -- Broadcasting & Cable, 1/28/2009 11:02:08 AM MT

Related:

The DTV Countdown - Complete Coverage of the DTV Transition

Barton, Stearns Ask Pelosi To Delay DTV Vote

... After debate on the bill Tuesday night, one Washington TV station was already warning viewers on its Tuesday night newscast that the DTV transition it had been telling them was coming Feb. 17 might be delayed by four months. ...

http://www.broadcastingcable.com/article/162898-DTV_Delay_Bill_Fails_To_Pass_In_House.phpWell, just because the FCC requires you to do a countdown shouldn't prevent you from reporting the news.

One of our local stations reported on the bill, then reminded viewers that unless and until the bill passes, the date is still Feb. 17 and there are just 20 days left.

That's exactly how I'd expect news outlets to handle it.

The House has cloture rules that limit debate.* Filibusters are possible only in the Senate.Absolutely true. What delay supporters are trying to do is get that bill onto the floor rather than have it wind through the normal process, which eats up time they don't have. Not only are there just 20 days (as of this post), but while the House takes a breather, stations who don't want or can't afford a delay are using this time to file silent STA notices for the original date.

The House has cloture rules that limit debate.* Filibusters are possible only in the Senate.

My mistake, but the House can eat up enough time. Right?

So, the underpinning point is that those not in the majority can now drag this thing to death as long as the stimulus bill stays mired (although that appears to finally be moving).

Of course, much of this is being mooted by the fact that a number of owners are moving ahead as planned.