I got mine. Where is yours?

I got mine. Initial set-up is very easy. Video is better than SD Dish Network but not quite DVD or HD-DVD. Great first impression.

Very slick. Initial set up was easy. iTunes lets you configure what syncs up music, movies, photos. I'm syncing my content now. Interface is very quick. Faster than front row..

We wanna see some U.I shots... :D

Screw UI :-) , I want to see screenshots of streaming video to access PQ. So it seems this isn't the solution if you want to send HD video from your main computer to your HDTV. That's discouraging.

The UI is fantastic, the photos, the music and the podcasts.

Like Bubba said the SD PQ is just under DVD.

The HD quality is terrible, 5Mbps is a joke. H.264 is better than MPEG2, but not 3 times better.

Hopefully it is just teh Quicktime apple TV export and not the Apple TV itself. I also tried VisualHub and the files looked terrible as well.

Just to give you an example, the HD Movie Trailers from Apple.com are 5.33Mbps.
The exported version from Quicktime are 3.79Mbps.
The apple TV max is 5Mbps, but I am not sure why Quicktime cuts it down so far. Part of it is audio, but still.
Both look fine on my 15" MBP.

Music Jukebox: A f***ing plus (Assuming you don't mind AAC/MP3/Apple Lossless). I have officially abandoned physical media (I rip the CDs and get rid of them... no need for them anymore). I still don't purchase a single thing from iTunes (too low quality), but that's irrelevant since I rip all my CDs as lossless or high bit-rate AAC, which this device plays quite well with.

SD TV replacement: B. The only thing holding it back is the surround sound issue, but that's not such a big issue with TV (comedies and such... 24 might be a different story). iTunes PQ is currently not-quite DVD, but ripping your own DVDs works great. This device seems especially well suited as a jukebox for season box sets of your favorite TV shows.

SD DVD replacement: B. Again, the surround sound is the killer drawback. PQ is DVD perfect when properly encoded. For older stuff that is only stereo anyway, it works really nicely.

HD anything replacement: D. This is not meant to give Blu-ray or HD DVD a run for their money. PQ is not *terrible* as some may say. Better than SD by far, but below pretty much any normal HD source. Not too terribly worse than some of the satellite stuff. Anyway, finding content is almost impossible so it's largely moot. If iTunes downloads were maxing at 5Mbs 720p, I'd raise the grade to a C. If they added surround support, I'd raise it to a B-. I expect future revisions of this product to up the bitrate and eventually move to 1080p (that's probably a ways off though).

Aside from the music angle, I approach this box as a place for those things where PQ and AQ are not so important as convenience and ease of access. Random TV shows, podcasts, and quick time-shifting Netflix rips get watched via the Apple TV. For PQ/AQ geek bliss, I stick with Blu-ray and upconverted DVD, and high-def TV broadcasts. The combo works well.

As an amateur photographer, this works really well to show off my latest pics, so that's an unanticipated perk as well.

Very important last point: everything seems to stream REALLY well over wireless G. I was expecting to have Wireless N envy, but I'm pleasantly surprised (granted, I'm not really running full bitrate high def content as of now).

Verdict: for $300, it's worth it to me. A full fledged computer (mini) at $600 is just too much money and hassle for what I want. $300 is just low enough to make it worth it. However, if the music jukebox thing wasn't so attractive to me (I paid for the Apple TV by selling the CDs I now play on it), I probably wouldn't have bit just for video. Yet.

Although we know that video is throttled to 720p,
how about menu titles, Apple 1080p HD trailers, and
most importantly, still photos?

That is, assuming you have a modern 1:1 pixel-mapped display
correctly set to "dot-by-dot"/no overscan 1920x1080p mode,
what settings for resolution does Apple TV make available?

If only 720p or 1080i are present for 1080p displays,
which setting makes photos look better?

Although we know that video is throttled to 720p,
how about menu titles, Apple 1080p HD trailers, and
most importantly, still photos?

The AppleTV will run everything except actual video at 1080i. Interface, pictures, screensavers... I only have a 1080i set so maybe I'm wrong, but it's my impression that the AppleTV will do 1080i max. No 1080p.

AppleTV will only get standard def trailers on its own. If you manually grab a high def trailer off the net you'll need to convert it to the proper 720p format before the AppleTV will play it.

That is, assuming you have a modern 1:1 pixel-mapped display
correctly set to "dot-by-dot"/no overscan 1920x1080p mode,
what settings for resolution does Apple TV make available?

If only 720p or 1080i are present for 1080p displays,
which setting makes photos look better?

Photos will most certainly look better at 1080i as there is really no motion involved. 1080 is 1080 when it comes to a static picture. Given that the only things the AppleTV runs at 1080i are not exactly motion intensive, I think the lack of 1080p is essentially a non-issue.

Honestly, if you can do 1080i I see no reason to stick with 720p for this particular device.

Well I have mine and have been using it to stream music and photos over a G network and have been very pleased with how my high resolution photos look on my 58 inch plasma. I've got the ATV connected via optical to a Benchmark DAC/USB to my stereo and the sound of Apple Lossless music is quite good.

I went so far as to download a remastered version of Star Trek (original) and was quite surprised at how good it looked on the plasma. I would rate it as very close to DVD quality. This was not a HD sample. That to follow.

Really love the fact it has a built in brick and the only thing I wish it had right now is a bigger hard drive but it is easy enough to sync what you want. Very cool and fun device, glad I got it. Only Stevie knows what else is coming.

Engadget.com just put up a nice walk through...

Just got the ATV tonight and it took about 25 min to set up, mostly because having to get to the wiring at the back of my receiver, HDMI switch and the like. The unit itself was set up in less than 5 minutes if the cabling was not the issue.

First off, the packaging is typical Apple understated elegance. Very Zen/Japanese minimalist esthetics.

Next the software interface is superb, as beautiful as front row but with more features. My primary interest was to get my iTunes and Apple Lossless music onto my main home theater/audio music rig, and this meets those requirements in spades. I have been using the DLO Home Dock and quirkiness with the remote and lack of an Apple like interface have been big annoyances.

I was amazed at how easy the synching and software set up was. I was preupdated to iTunes 7.1 and everything just worked. All I did was input my TV resolution (1080i) and put in the synching password as prompted and everything else was automatic. Simply beautiful.

Now I know why I took the time to put in those high rez album art covers. Cover flow is beautiful.

I don't watch video on my iPod so I can't speak to the quality of the video yet. I may have to borrow my daughters computer to check this aspect of the ATV. But the quality of the video in the Apple store when I bought this today was not so hot. Near DVD = sub DVD, to quote Ara Derdarian (aka Editor Darian)

More updates to follow.

Who wants their TV on just to know what playing (music wise). Better still, whose playing music thru their TV? What a waste for me, since I use front PJs. I have TVs, but they all have PCs connect to them.

I'd agree with you. That's why it's called aTV (note the TV:))

For music only there's the old, pretty good, Airport Express.

Thing is I want it for TV only, specifically iTunes content but I already read of many complaining about the unit getting very hot. Now after (a) my own experience with the MBP (gets ridiculously hot in a few minutes, I mean dangerously so) and (b) some MBPs actually burning, well, I DO not want to be burned again :)

I would expect much better.

Who wants their TV on just to know what playing (music wise). Better still, whose playing music thru their TV? What a waste for me, since I use front PJs. I have TVs, but they all have PCs connect to them.

I want the TV on so I can navigate to the song I want to play. Finding 1 song out of 8000 from across the room is made much easier by a nice, large interface.

I want the TV on while the song is playing so I know what artist/song/album I'm listening to and so I can see the cover art for the album.

If for some reason I couldn't stand my TV showing a black screen with the album art, I would simply turn the TV off. The appleTV plays sound through my reciever, so the TV is just for navigation and information.

If you have a computer hooked to every TV how do you navigate the content without using a screen of some sort? Why would somebody with a computer hooked to every TV already be interested in a product that duplicates a subset of that functionality? It's like being mad at Honda because you already have a Mercedes.

I want the TV on so I can navigate to the song I want to play. Finding 1 song out of 8000 from across the room is made much easier by a nice, large interface.

I want the TV on while the song is playing so I know what artist/song/album I'm listening to and so I can see the cover art for the album.

If for some reason I couldn't stand my TV showing a black screen with the album art, I would simply turn the TV off. The appleTV plays sound through my reciever, so the TV is just for navigation and information.

If you have a computer hooked to every TV how do you navigate the content without using a screen of some sort? Why would somebody with a computer hooked to every TV already be interested in a product that duplicates a subset of that functionality? It's like being mad at Honda because you already have a Mercedes.

I guess that's why i bought a Sonos bundle. If it works for you, enjoy...

I failed to mention that I don't/won't use my TVs for music, and I didn't buy an HD video device to watch non-HD content..

I guess that's why i bought a Sonos bundle. If it works for you, enjoy...

I failed to mention that I don't/won't use my TVs for music, and I didn't buy an HD video device to watch non-HD content..

meow :rolleyes:

Wow! People here are way too sensitive when it comes to apple products. I got three (nasty) PMs about my above comment.

I do own a Mac mini and an iPod (not for long, only a couple months), but who cares. You people don't like to be disagreed with?!?

It's not about being too sensitive. It's about not adding anything worthwhile to the discussion.

Wow! People here are way too sensitive when it comes to apple products. I got three (nasty) PMs about my above comment.

I do own a Mac mini and an iPod (not for long, only a couple months), but who cares. You people don't like to be disagreed with?!?

I would venture that you got PMed because you didn't so much make a point as you did just generally complain. I'm all for disagreement, but your HD remark comes off as a bit immature and nonsensical. We were talking about music and you randomly bring in the HD-ness of video content? The music interface runs in 1080i, which IS high definition. and 720p IS high definition video.

Anyway, if your discussion question is "why would somebody buy the AppleTV instead of a Sonos system?" then I chime in with a few reasons.

1) Some people would like/need/prefer to navigate on a 32"+ screen rather than sqint at a 3" inch gameboy screen to do the same thing

2) Most people find your TV screen displaying musical information and artwork useful. Those who don't can set the AppleTV to blank out the screen after a few minutes (screen-saver style).

3) Some people don't want to deal with a bulky extra remote. AppleTV can be mapped to any Universal remote. Sonos seems useless without the gameboy remote.

4) Some people like having $400 in their pocket (price difference between 2-room Sonos system and 2 AppleTVs)

But, if you prefere the Sonos-style, I'm glad it was worth over $1000 to you. And obviously if you have some deep, ingrained hatred of a TV being on while you listen to music then I'm not really surprised that a product with "TV" in the title is not for you.

If I claimed I don't/won't use a computer for music, would it make much sense for me to claim that media center PCs are useless?

I want the TV on so I can navigate to the song I want to play. Finding 1 song out of 8000 from across the room is made much easier by a nice, large interface.

I want the TV on while the song is playing so I know what artist/song/album I'm listening to and so I can see the cover art for the album.

If for some reason I couldn't stand my TV showing a black screen with the album art, I would simply turn the TV off. The appleTV plays sound through my reciever, so the TV is just for navigation and information.

If you have a computer hooked to every TV how do you navigate the content without using a screen of some sort? Why would somebody with a computer hooked to every TV already be interested in a product that duplicates a subset of that functionality? It's like being mad at Honda because you already have a Mercedes.

not quite sure about the honda/mercedes thing...but yes, those are valid points. I personally feel different but can appreciate what you are looking for.

Like most things, in general there's always the individual own use-experience that matters - and that can be quite personal, hence different !

Old PowerMac G4 + $200 500GB FW HD + $300 ATV = Slick and simple AAIF Jukebox. HD rendered slideshows are much better than the DVD's that I had to previously burn. A true ipod like touch sensitive remote would have been a definite plus, although the provided Frontrow remote is fine. The only slightly confusing part of the interface is the navigation of the already synched content on the ATV vs. the streaming content of the main host computer. Otherwise everything is extremely simple and intuitive. Get the pricepoint down to $250 and Apple will have a runaway hit.

The only slightly confusing part of the interface is the navigation of the already synched content on the ATV vs. the streaming content of the main host computer. Otherwise everything is extremely simple and intuitive.

I comepletely agree with you here. It would be much better if all content appeared on the same list and if the content was local it played off the hard drive and if it wasn't local it would get streamed, all invisibly to the user. I thought it was an odd interface choice to so prominitely separate the navigation of hard disk vs. streamed content.

Honestly, the streaming works so surprisingly well even over wireless G that I just always stream so I have all my content at my disposal. The local hard drive is useful during very specific situations I suppose (network is down, computer is down), but otherwise the hard drive is pretty much pointless. That's why I don't understand everybody complaining about the hard drive size. With a wireless G and especially wireless N network, the hard drive is all but irrelevant.

I would buy it if it had a 250 GB HD in it. I don't want to stream anything. Sync is okay, but I want to turn off my other computers.

I would buy it if it had a 250 GB HD in it. I don't want to stream anything. Sync is okay, but I want to turn off my other computers.it only takes 2 1/2" drives, and there aren't any 250 GB ones yet. But you could easily put a 160/200 GB drive in it if you were willing to pay for one.

I comepletely agree with you here. It would be much better if all content appeared on the same list and if the content was local it played off the hard drive and if it wasn't local it would get streamed, all invisibly to the user. I thought it was an odd interface choice to so prominitely separate the navigation of hard disk vs. streamed content.

Honestly, the streaming works so surprisingly well even over wireless G that I just always stream so I have all my content at my disposal. The local hard drive is useful during very specific situations I suppose (network is down, computer is down), but otherwise the hard drive is pretty much pointless. That's why I don't understand everybody complaining about the hard drive size. With a wireless G and especially wireless N network, the hard drive is all but irrelevant.

ok, have you tried fast forwarding while streaming ? if that worked, then I'd be amazed. For just playing (no fast forward, no rewinding) I had no doubts it would work, since I do it regularly, from my iMac to my MBP .... I can assume a "N" network would be better, but I have no idea how much.

It is worth $300 just for the music and slide show features. I'm watching them on a 1080p 40" Sony Bravia and the photos look great. The floating photo screen saver that periodically flips around is very impressive. Its not designed for critical HD viewing, but it is very useful for instant access to a variety of kids movies. Loading a DVD disk for an impatient kid can be excruciating (Previews, FBI warning, etc.). I'm converting my kids favorite flicks -- Curious George, Toy Story, Ice Age, etc. to MP4 with handbrake. The animation must convert very well, because I can notice very little degradation, and the instant accesss is great to calm a screaming kid.

It is worth $300 just for the music and slide show features. I'm watching them on a 1080p 40" Sony Bravia and the photos look great. The floating photo screen saver that periodically flips around is very impressive. Its not designed for critical HD viewing, but it is very useful for instant access to a variety of kids movies. Loading a DVD disk for an impatient kid can be excruciating (Previews, FBI warning, etc.). I'm converting my kids favorite flicks -- Curious George, Toy Story, Ice Age, etc. to MP4 with handbrake. The animation must convert very well, because I can notice very little degradation, and the instant accesss is great to calm a screaming kid.


Yes, this is what I was looking for as well.

So my question for Padriac or any others who have it and have used it is...

When a ripped DVD is loaded into iTunes (I have not attempted this so I'm guessing it's just as tommylotto suggests just a handbrake/visualhub/etc convert to h.264), does it play same PQ (or slightly worse) than a standard 480p DVD player (aside from the 5.1 issue)?

I'm just not a HD-snob (and there's no offense intended to those that are). My main goal with ATV would be to have a DVD jukebox at two of our main viewing areas (so yes, 2 ATVs). The music streaming does seem like a very nice bonus as well as the photo/slideshow viewing. But the DVD jukebox would be my main use.

So any thoughts on that would be appreciated. And again, IMO and my opinion only a regular old 480p DVD PQ is just fine.

I comepletely agree with you here. It would be much better if all content appeared on the same list and if the content was local it played off the hard drive and if it wasn't local it would get streamed, all invisibly to the user. I thought it was an odd interface choice to so prominitely separate the navigation of hard disk vs. streamed content.

Honestly, the streaming works so surprisingly well even over wireless G that I just always stream so I have all my content at my disposal. The local hard drive is useful during very specific situations I suppose (network is down, computer is down), but otherwise the hard drive is pretty much pointless. That's why I don't understand everybody complaining about the hard drive size. With a wireless G and especially wireless N network, the hard drive is all but irrelevant.

Well, not if you have a big photo library. And some folks don't keep their computers on all the time. But you are right about how well the streaming works. It is quite impressive. I used to get drop outs all the time with my Airport Express, and I use wired Ethernet!!

Other than initial cost, I just don't see any advantage for purchasing the appleTV over a Mac Mini with FrontRow. Even at little more than twice the price, the Mini will have significantly more than twice the capabilities (everything appleTV does, plus computer features), plus you can use an eyetv to record and watch HD TV. Am I wrong? is there something that I have just completely overlooked?

Other than initial cost, I just don't see any advantage for purchasing the appleTV over a Mac Mini with FrontRow. Even at little more than twice the price, the Mini will have significantly more than twice the capabilities (everything appleTV does, plus computer features), plus you can use an eyetv to record and watch HD TV. Am I wrong? is there something that I have just completely overlooked?

Less expensive. No power brick. Slick UI not available w/ Front Row. Lower power consumption. Smaller box. No keyboard.

Other than initial cost, I just don't see any advantage for purchasing the appleTV over a Mac Mini with FrontRow. Even at little more than twice the price, the Mini will have significantly more than twice the capabilities (everything appleTV does, plus computer features), plus you can use an eyetv to record and watch HD TV. Am I wrong? is there something that I have just completely overlooked?No, you've got it right. On the other hand, some people want the aTV for exactly what it is, in all of its simplistic glory, and the benefits we see in having a mini, instead, are detriments.

Yes, this is what I was looking for as well.

So my question for Padriac or any others who have it and have used it is...

When a ripped DVD is loaded into iTunes (I have not attempted this so I'm guessing it's just as tommylotto suggests just a handbrake/visualhub/etc convert to h.264), does it play same PQ (or slightly worse) than a standard 480p DVD player (aside from the 5.1 issue)?

I'm just not a HD-snob (and there's no offense intended to those that are). My main goal with ATV would be to have a DVD jukebox at two of our main viewing areas (so yes, 2 ATVs). The music streaming does seem like a very nice bonus as well as the photo/slideshow viewing. But the DVD jukebox would be my main use.

So any thoughts on that would be appreciated. And again, IMO and my opinion only a regular old 480p DVD PQ is just fine.

This is exactly my philosophy on the box as well. Jukebox for random SD DVDs. If you encode DVDs with h.264 at a decent bit rate, they look indisntinguisable from the original DVD source. For SD stereo material (TV shows, older movies), the AppleTV has no real drawback in terms of PQ/AQ (IMO). I can say with confidence that the PQ is as good or better than most cable/satelite signals (non-HD, of course). I'm using Handbrake currently.

720p looks really good, as well. The bitrate limitation prevents it from looking Blu-ray/HD DVD quality, but it definitely looks HD and comprable to a lot of 720p satellite HD.

No, you've got it right. On the other hand, some people want the aTV for exactly what it is, in all of its simplistic glory, and the benefits we see in having a mini, instead, are detriments.

Hit the nail on the head there. While I'm well capable of going the "computer in the living room" route, I realized that 1) I don't really want to spend the time and money to do that, and 2) the living room is also about family and friends, and thus living room products should act like living room products. Us nerds would boot an OS to make toast if we could, but normal people would hate that. These are the reasons Apple is who they are, I think, in that they are always trying to simplify (sometime to the confusion of tech-nerds) rather than complicate. My significant other would not touch a computer in the living room, but she has been happily using the AppleTV. "It's easier than the DVR" she says.

I'm converting my kids favorite flicks -- Curious George, Toy Story, Ice Age, etc. to MP4 with handbrake. The animation must convert very well, because I can notice very little degradation, and the instant accesss is great to calm a screaming kid.

Hello tommylotto,

I got the AppleTV yesterday and I'd like to know what settings you used in Handbrake to get the good results.

Thanks

François

ok, have you tried fast forwarding while streaming ? if that worked, then I'd be amazed. For just playing (no fast forward, no rewinding) I had no doubts it would work, since I do it regularly, from my iMac to my MBP .... I can assume a "N" network would be better, but I have no idea how much.

Actually, the fast forwarding while streaming works surprisingly well. I don't know how they do it, but I fast forwarded through part of a video podcast and I had to double check that the podcasts had not synced. They hadn't.

I saw Incredibles and Battlestar Galactica with Appletv at the Apple store. Terrible picture quality on the Sony LCD TV - jagged edges, poor details. Quality comparable to VHS or analog TV. Photos looked good so I left it on photos.

I agree, the video quality in the Apple Store with a 40 inch LCD and the ATV can't help these things fly off the shelf! I was very under impressed. However, the album cover art and photos look great.

I did some testing today and I have to say the Apple TV is a superb streaming device. I have a hard wired Ethernet system to the AV rack so I have set up the ATV with a wired connection and had absolutely no problems streaming lossless audio to my system. However, to really give it a test I unplugged the ATV and tried the wireless system. I have a Belkin N1 router with mostly 802.11g devices in the home. It was a breeze to get it on line with just a quick entry of my WEP password. The home network was recognized immediately and the device instantly reconnected to my main computer. I have never had networking at home go this smoothly with a new device. Amazing.

Wireless streaming of lossless audio was just as good wirelessly as it was with a wired system. Fantastic. The only pause I noticed was when I downloaded movie or TV trailers from the internet directly to the ATV. They would start to play but pause when the playback exceeded what was down loaded. After several seconds of a frozen screen, it would resume. However, when you played it back a second time after it had completely downloaded, no pause, no problem.

I know I sound like I'm gushing, but I have been searching for an easy way to get my computer iTunes music content on to my home theater system. The airport express did not stream well for me and there were always drop outs, even with my wired connection. The ATV has no such issues.

Now, bring on the HD content!

I agree, the video quality in the Apple Store with a 40 inch LCD and the ATV can't help these things fly off the shelf! I was very under impressed.Maybe this will provide some incentive for Apple to get their HD offerings going.

Hello tommylotto,

I got the AppleTV yesterday and I'd like to know what settings you used in Handbrake to get the good results.

Thanks

François


Francois,

I purchased the atv JUST for queing up my kids DVD collection. With a 2 and 4 year old, they love to invent all sorts of new uses for DVDs. Frisbees, coasters, HotWheel bridges, mini construction sites...you get the picture. I figured it would save me money in the long run just in replacement dvd's alone.

Anyway, I ripped Monsters Inc in Handbrake as a test, definately use the H.264 codec. I tested the mpeg4 vs. h.264 and while the mpeg4 looks okay, you can really see the blockiness/jaggies on black and light scenes. I'm not really picky on video but the difference can't be ignored. The h.264 looks near-dvd quality. Sure I can see some artifacts but for kids movies, this thing is perfect.

Of course the major drawback is that h.264 encoding times are LLLOOOONNNGG. Especially if you use 2-pass. I'm on a first gen Intel iMac 2.0Ghz 1.5GB RAM(core duo). And my rip took almost 4 hours. While the mpeg4 rip took around 1 hour for 2-pass. I also used an average bitrate of 1000.

This was just my first take at handbrake, others will probably give better settings and YMMV on the rip times.

good luck,

eric

edited for computer specs.

It is worth $300 just for the music and slide show features. I'm watching them on a 1080p 40" Sony Bravia and the photos look great. The floating photo screen saver that periodically flips around is very impressive. Its not designed for critical HD viewing, but it is very useful for instant access to a variety of kids movies. Loading a DVD disk for an impatient kid can be excruciating (Previews, FBI warning, etc.). I'm converting my kids favorite flicks -- Curious George, Toy Story, Ice Age, etc. to MP4 with handbrake. The animation must convert very well, because I can notice very little degradation, and the instant accesss is great to calm a screaming kid.
Yes, it's worth it. I got mine yesterday & am enjoying watching my photos while listening to my choice of music. Much easier than setting up slide shows in iPhoto to play in Front Row on my MacBook Pro.

I've also made a couple of quick HD iMovies from footage shot with my Sony HD camcorder. I exported the movies to QuickTime then exported to Apple TV from QuickTime Pro. I'm not a HD-fanatic, but I'm impressed with the quality of the movies on my 55" HDTV. I wouldn't be surprised to see an option in the next version of iMovie to export directly to Apple TV.

I agree, the video quality in the Apple Store with a 40 inch LCD and the ATV can't help these things fly off the shelf! I was very under impressed. However, the album cover art and photos look great.

I thought they'd have some HD, too... nope.

I also thought this box would have cover flow, but it does not. :mad:

Does anyone know if the ATV would act as a "repeater or router" for the PS3 if one was to hook up the PS3 to the ATV via ethernet? Would really like to know since the PS3 has a very weak antenna.

Thanks/

Other than initial cost, I just don't see any advantage for purchasing the appleTV over a Mac Mini with FrontRow. Even at little more than twice the price, the Mini will have significantly more than twice the capabilities (everything appleTV does, plus computer features), plus you can use an eyetv to record and watch HD TV. Am I wrong? is there something that I have just completely overlooked?Ease of use and setup is the other differentiator. Keep in mind that their target audience is mass market not niche HTPC enthusiasts. And as you point out, it's twice the price. Other than that the Mini over AppleTV is a no brainer to me and probably most people here especially when considering its video limitations.

I would venture that you got PMed because you didn't so much make a point as you did just generally complain. I'm all for disagreement, but your HD remark comes off as a bit immature and nonsensical.

We were talking about music and you randomly bring in the HD-ness of video content?

The music interface runs in 1080i, which IS high definition. and 720p IS high definition video.



My wife gets a little excited on these forums, and the Pms were very unnecassary. She knew you're talking about music, but I guess she was (when mentioning the Sonos) trying to get an understand of the other uses of this product. She's well aware what HD video/resolution is. She doesn't see the need for a device to show text of songs in HD (if you don't have the album art).

The mac mini works great for displaying Photos and the occasional non-HD home video (when granny comes over). It's quiet, and we got it for a steal only $399 (open box). I'd much rather have a full PC than an Itunes extender (in a sense) for that close to the same price (granted it's a used vs. new product).



Anyway, if your discussion question is "why would somebody buy the AppleTV instead of a Sonos system?" then I chime in with a few reasons.
[\QUOTE]

That's not what she was trying to bring across. She'd assume that since this was in the HTPC forum, you'd be talking about video. It has nothing to do with the Sonos being "better" or why not use this instead, just trying to find out how to use this product in OUR home. The music portion wouldn't be use, so that's why video (or lack of HD content on ITunes today) was mentioned.


[QUOTE=Padriac]
1) Some people would like/need/prefer to navigate on a 32"+ screen rather than sqint at a 3" inch gameboy screen to do the same thing

2) Most people find your TV screen displaying musical information and artwork useful. Those who don't can set the AppleTV to blank out the screen after a few minutes (screen-saver style).

3) Some people don't want to deal with a bulky extra remote. AppleTV can be mapped to any Universal remote. Sonos seems useless without the gameboy remote.

4) Some people like having $400 in their pocket (price difference between 2-room Sonos system and 2 AppleTVs)

But, if you prefere the Sonos-style, I'm glad it was worth over $1000 to you. And obviously if you have some deep, ingrained hatred of a TV being on while you listen to music then I'm not really surprised that a product with "TV" in the title is not for you.

If I claimed I don't/won't use a computer for music, would it make much sense for me to claim that media center PCs are useless?


No need to attack Sonos products, as this wasn't the intent of the post.

You don't need a remote for the system to work, if you're connected to a PC (which is the TV in our case), but I'm not here to "convert" anybody or explain all of the good/bad points.



4) Some people like having $400 in their pocket (price difference between 2-room Sonos system and 2 AppleTVs)


That's pretty funny, because who knows (or cares) how much "some people" spend on their PCs that they're getting the content from. And you're assuming we paid retail for the Sonos as well. We're very happy with our purchase, thanks for asking..



And obviously if you have some deep, ingrained hatred of a TV being on while you listen to music then I'm not really surprised that a product with "TV" in the title is not for you.



No hatred here.... ;)

The TVs are on when music is playing, it's usually being used while gaming/ surfing the net/working. The point she didn't see was if you used a front projector (which she forgets that "some people" don't have/want/care for), how could you just burn the bulb to see 106" of album art? Again, since we don't watch non-HD material on TVs, and iTunes doesn't offer HD downloads, this doesn't work for us. I guess we'll check back when Gen. 5 comes out, like we did with the iPod.


I guess we're from the "ol' school", and like things decentralized, where one product does one thing great as oppose to a jack of some trades.


If I claimed I don't/won't use a computer for music, would it make much sense for me to claim that media center PCs are useless?


Claim what you like (sounds fair to me), as that's your opinion and this was hers.

She not a long-winded person, so that's probably why her post was quick and harsh (to the point, maybe :confused: ).

She'll just refrain from posting and keep her posts to Pms to the User Mods or only on threads to she starts.

Thank you everyone for your time and have a great day. And to the 3 Pm people, you have the best day!

I'm holding off until the next MacMini with Leopard is introduced and the hackers get a little further with the aTV. Apple really needs to move on updating the Itunes store with HD content, but with all the hacking that is going on maybe the content providers are the ones putting the brakes on everything.

Does anyone know if the ATV would act as a "repeater or router" for the PS3 if one was to hook up the PS3 to the ATV via ethernet? Would really like to know since the PS3 has a very weak antenna.
No, the ATV will not act as a repeater.

but with all the hacking that is going on maybe the content providers are the ones putting the brakes on everything.Nobody's hacking at DRM on the aTV projects. While the hacking may allow pirated xvids, for instance, to be played, there are not attempts to DRM circomvention. The aTV brings nothing to the DRM equation, as far as i can tell. It doesn't provide anything that a regular Mac doesn't provide to defeat DRM.

Other than initial cost, I just don't see any advantage for purchasing the appleTV over a Mac Mini with FrontRow. Even at little more than twice the price, the Mini will have significantly more than twice the capabilities (everything appleTV does, plus computer features), plus you can use an eyetv to record and watch HD TV. Am I wrong? is there something that I have just completely overlooked?
The 64MB dedicated video processor in the ATV may be superior to the shared CPU memory of the mini. Whether this affects performance remains to be seen.

My wife gets a little excited on these forums, and the Pms were very unnecassary.

Fair enough. The post (from your wife) came off as a little harsh but I think it was simply brief... sometimes it's hard to tell the difference in text (like with sarcasm). Hopefully those who PMed you werent' too harsh in return.

I guess the point is that you seem to have many particular aspects of your situation that would obviously detract the Apple TV's usability in your case: front projection (means you don't want to just let things run for little reason), no album art (again decreasing you desire to display anything), already have a sonos. It's like somebody who doesn't have a computer complaining that the Apple TV sucks to them... of course it does, because you can't really use it. Same for people who already have some sort of HTPC: they can already do everything this box does (and more). They can't, however, do it as easily or as cheaply, which is really the whole point of AppleTV. As I said previously, I happen to be one of those HTPC guys but I realized that I did want something just dead simple in the living room, both for myself and others. Other people wouldn't even bother with the HTPC (too complicated and imposing). Even I found myself tweaking it more than actually using it. The Apple TV on the other hand is so straightforward and simple that it begs to be used. Some enthusiasts just won't be able to let go of the tweaking and options of course.

This product is for the mass market and/or people who want a very elegant, simple solution to getting music/video from the computer to the living room. I would quite honestly NOT classify this as a HTPC in any way. Completely different beast, just as a videogame console is also not like a PC despite doing much of the very same things.

And I didn't intend to attack Sonos, just highlight what the AppleTV brings to the table that the Sonos does not. They both have particular strenghts and weakness. Personally, I think the AppleTV has infinitely more sexy/mass-market appeal, but that's just my opionion. There are definitely aspects of the Sonos I wish the AppleTV offered, but they are secondary rather than primary. I think a discussion of the merits of one product vs. another are interesting when done in an adult matter, but too often the tone goes south quick. Ah well.

BTW: it's pretty cool to have a wife that can hang on these boards.

The 64MB dedicated video processor in the ATV may be superior to the shared CPU memory of the mini. Whether this affects performance remains to be seen.

But with a quick bump of processor speed (to 2 GHz Core Duo) the Mac Mini will be officially 1080p Quicktime H.264 capable through DVI. I would think that even at 1.83 GHz, the horsepower would be enough to make up for any difference in video processing at 720p. Like you said, it remains to be seen.

Interesting review of aTV begun by a guy from Macworld who previously had trouble connecting a mini to his HDTV:

http://www.macworld.com/weblogs/macword/2007/04/tvweek/index.php

And Jason Snell's accompanying article:

http://www.macworld.com/weblogs/macword/2007/04/wish/index.php

His list (seems multichannel audio is on many people's minds).

Internet streaming support.
Browsing Web video libraries.
Buying and browsing via the Apple Remote.
More podcasting.
Photo flexibility.
More HD video.
DVD quality audio. It’s a shame that the Apple TV has an optical audio out port but doesn’t have any multi-channel audio to play back. So when that new HD content comes out on iTunes, make sure it comes with a 5.1 audio track.
Support for optical media.
TiVo support.

Read for his explanations.

And let's not forget Engadget. They've posted their review here:

http://www.engadget.com/2007/04/05/apple-tv-review/

I have had very good results converting film based DVD material to H.264 with handbreak/mediafork -- just using the default settings. The only thing I change is the encoder (to H.264 instead of MP4). However, I have had poor results converting VIDEO based material from DVD (i.e., Blue's Clues and Schoolhouse Rock). The interlacing artifacts are horrible with motion. Anyone else noticing this problem? Anyone having better results with a different program?

I have had very good results converting film based DVD material to H.264 with handbreak/mediafork -- just using the default settings. The only thing I change is the encoder (to H.264 instead of MP4). However, I have had poor results converting VIDEO based material from DVD (i.e., Blue's Clues and Schoolhouse Rock). The interlacing artifacts are horrible with motion. Anyone else noticing this problem? Anyone having better results with a different program?

I've converted a bunch of interlaced video based stuff - mostly Music Video DVDs - using VisualHub. I'm pretty happy with the results. I use the default AppleTV settings, with the addition of "H.264 Encoding", and selecting "De-interlace" from the Advanced tab. Also - if I am joining together several files (such as several .VOB files ripped from a DVD) I always fill in an appropriate frame rate on the advanced tab - usually 29.97. This is necessary, because when joining multiple files, you have to force them to use the same frame rate or you'll end up with an MP4 file with sound and no video.

(FYI - if I am joining multiple VOBs from a film based DVD, I set the frame rate to 23.976 , de-select de-interlace, and usually select 2-pass encoding)

Other than initial cost, I just don't see any advantage for purchasing the appleTV over a Mac Mini with FrontRow. Even at little more than twice the price, the Mini will have significantly more than twice the capabilities (everything appleTV does, plus computer features), plus you can use an eyetv to record and watch HD TV. Am I wrong? is there something that I have just completely overlooked?

In the nearly 2 weeks since your post I haven't seen anyone mention one big advantage of the Apple TV: component video. Everyone here must be rich. :) I still have an FPTV with component but not DVI or HDMI.

On the other hand, for streaming to older TVs for the kids, I think composite video would be useful and the mini has that (by using a cheap adapter from Apple). Unfortunately I can't see buying a $600 Mini to stream video to a $100 TV.

I've converted some HDV to AppleTV with QuickTime Pro - very nice.

Yesterday I saved an archived condensed game from MLB.TV to .mov & then to AppleTV with QuickTime Pro. Considering it's from a small .wmv it looks OK on my 55" HDTV.

Is there any word/speculation on when iTunes may start offering HD content?

Is there any word/speculation on when iTunes may start offering HD content?My speculation is that it is tied up with releasing Leopard, as the drm to manage the HD will be integrated to some degree. But then again, maybe Apple will sandbox an application like DVD Player, or its replacement, and be able to handle the drm outside of the OS. In which case it could come next week, or next year.

"Itunes store with HD content, but with all the hacking that is going on maybe the content providers are the ones putting the brakes on everything."

Exactly how much bandwidth does your ISP give you? I don't see why people would want to pay to download a massive file when they can get HD OTA.

Exactly how much bandwidth does your ISP give you? I don't see why people would want to pay to download a massive file when they can get HD OTA.

1. Not everyone can recieve HD OTA. This site is full of people who are glad that E* and D* provide HD local channels, as they can't recieve with a standard antenna. Another source of HD content for those folks, and those who haven't purchased or created a DVR is a welcome addition.

2. Not all HD content comes from OTA. I, for one, am anxiously awaiting the time I can download Discovery HD, National Geographic HD, movies, and other cable content in HD from iTunes. Once this is available, combined with OTA/DVR, I will be strongly considering dropping cable television completely, and just using iTunes and my antenna.

Exactly how much bandwidth does your ISP give you? I don't see why people would want to pay to download a massive file when they can get HD OTA.

It's all about more choices. More choices means more competition, which means better content at a lower price for consumers.

Another benefit? ISPs need a kick in the teeth. Demand for more HD content delivered over IP will help spur investment in IP infrastructure, as consumers will demand more bandwidth. What advances have their been in real delivered bandwidth over the past 5 years? None - which is a crying shame. DSL, cable and satellite offer a connection today no better than 5 years ago, and fiber optic implementation is proceeding at a snail's pace. The worst part is that we as consumers are just putting up with it. It is time for a revolution in increased bandwidth, and HD video over IP could be the "killer app" that drives it.

Is there any word/speculation on when iTunes may start offering HD content?No, but here's a start:
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-srv/mmedia/podcastfront.htm

Also, a local station in DC (WUSA) has been streaming HD broadcasts lately, but not 24/7, as I understand it.

1. Not everyone can recieve HD OTA. This site is full of people who are glad that E* and D* provide HD local channels, as they can't recieve with a standard antenna. Another source of HD content for those folks, and those who haven't purchased or created a DVR is a welcome addition.

2. Not all HD content comes from OTA. I, for one, am anxiously awaiting the time I can download Discovery HD, National Geographic HD, movies, and other cable content in HD from iTunes. Once this is available, combined with OTA/DVR, I will be strongly considering dropping cable television completely, and just using iTunes and my antenna.

And I am with you, and more: I have already dropped cable tv (at ;east here in my nyc apt.).

Just went to an Apple Store today, and saw the AppleTV for the first time, and man, the picture (outside of menus) looks like dogmeat. Even trailers looked ******, although I have no way of knowing what rez trailers they were using. I don't see how anyone who has a) experienced HDTV and b) has seen an AppleTV demo will buy one (until Apple jacks up the iTunes store quality to 720P).

Ted:

The picture does indeed look lousy when you see the display at the Apple Store. All I can say is that I run my Apple TV on my 92 inch screen and while I agree you would not mistake it for HD, the picture is far more watchable than whatever they present at the stores.

I have converted a high quality HD DVD rip and played it on my Apple TV with ATVFiles and it looked fantastic. Too bad apple didn't build that support in, maybe version 2.0.

Just went to an Apple Store today, and saw the AppleTV for the first time, and man, the picture (outside of menus) looks like dogmeat. Even trailers looked ******, although I have no way of knowing what rez trailers they were using. I don't see how anyone who has a) experienced HDTV and b) has seen an AppleTV demo will buy one (until Apple jacks up the iTunes store quality to 720P).

I'm watching 720P HD clips from BBC Motion series via iTunes>> ATV on my 60" Plasma with no external processing and it looks killer. I'm watching it right now between typing since I'm not a touch typist.

Also, I've been watching a lot of the iTunes movie downloads that my plasma internally scales up to its 720 native. They look great - very close to DVD quality. When I process these via my Lumagen before arriving pixel matched to the plasma, I can rarely tell the difference from the DVD.

Further, I've recently been able to stream via wav file both dts and dd5.1 audio file via ATV that successfully pass through to my Meridian processor which successfully decodes and presents its full original glory; None of these play in iTunes of course since QT won't decode them, but iTunes imports them and streams to the ATV for pass-through, no problem.

The TV shows (wife gets Gray's Anatomy) can sometimes look a little soft with some compression blocking; But I don't see anything I would describe as dogmeat... So far this dog's eating it up... Couldn't be happier for a 1.0 version - (well DVD rip w/5.1 AC3 would be nice, but that's in the works...)

bdraw - good news thanks; matches what I'm seeing so far as well..

ken

I am not sure if this is a general knowledge but appletv is able to play all the apple 720p trailers without any extra conversion or hacks. That is first thing any of you should test when you get your appletv connected. Synch few 720p trailers for video quality. I think most of you are satisfied with them.

Since most of the trailers do have higher bitrate than 5m I did few tests and it looks like as long as the bitrate is below 8m iTunes agrees to transfer file to the appletv. Test was not in any way conclusive but I was able to transfer 7,5m bitrate files without any problems - the same sample converted with higher bitrate gave an error message.

I am a little perplexed why the trailers section does not automatically stream those 720p trailers; maybe to not show better quality trailers than the movies you can buy.