Right now I have a 43" Elite monitor, a Denon DVD-2200, and a Denon AVR-3803

Would a video processor help out in my situation to get the best bang for the buck out of my Elite? I was originally planning on getting a Denon DVD-3930CI to upscale my movies but hte folks in the standard def forum said it wouldn't be a night and day difference. So I thought about getting an upscaling reciever like a AVR-4806ci but read somewhere that something like a VP30 or VP50 would be phenominally better.

I don't have HDMI anywhere in my system (only the elite has one input) and everything I do has been component to the AVR then component to the Elite all using "BetterCables" interconnects. So here would be my chance to do HDMI.

Please let me know,
Michal

http://www.lenexpo-electronics.com/Line-Doublers-p-1-c-305.html

I was about to post the same question. I'm planning on buying a Denon 4308 when they are released in July, and I believe they will still have the Faroudja chipset (same as the Denon 4306). Video quality is veeeery important to me since I'll be using a front-projection screen making what's bad even worse (especially on Std Def TV). Will the video output on the Denon be as good as on a VP-30, or does the VP-30 do much, much more?

Will the video output on the Denon be as good as on a VP-30, or does the VP-30 do much, much more?Faroudja video processors are trash. That's the same $10 chip you find in most $1000-$1500 LCD TVs.

Ah--so the VP-30 is definitely better? Is there something you'd recommend in the $1k to $2k price range that is better than the VP-30?

In all honesty, how different *does* the picture look after using something like the VP-30?

SD picture quality is a function of the source quality and video processing (deinterlace and scaling).

In all honesty, how different *does* the picture look after using something like the VP-30?Over the processing in the 42" Pioneer Elite? The Pioneer plasmas already feature excellent video processing, far better than you get with Faroudja. Faroudja is the processing you get in those cheaper $1000-$1200 plasmas at Costco. Faroudja as we knew it five years ago no longer exists; the company was sold off and now it is simply a brand name and marketing logo used by Genesis Microchip for its entire lineup of low-end chips for budget displays.

The Pioneer's processing isn't up to the level of the VP30 or VP50, but you are probably not going to see major differences on a 42" screen. If you had the 60" plasma with the ability to do 1:1 pixel mapping, then it might be worth it. Remember, if the display doesn't support 1:1 pixel mapping, then you can't bypass the built-in processing and use an external scaler in its place. Without 1:1 pixel mapping, the display will simply process the input signal as it would have without an external video processor.

On a display with relatively good video processing like a Pioneer plasma, you should be looking to improve your source quality. For example, satellite is not a quality source. Both Dish and DirecTV downconvert their SD signals from 704x480 and 640x480 to 480x480, which tends to create a blurry SD picture on larger screens. In most cases, digital cable is better, and in some cases, superior quality relative to satellite. If you already have digital cable, find out if Verizon FiOS is available in your area. That will have the most significant impact on the picture quality you get on your screen, far more impact than upgrading a Pioneer plasma with a $3000 scaler.

Regardless of whether you have satellite or cable, you should make sure you aren't using the SD upconversion in your set-top box, as that will almost always degrade the quality of the picture. Set your set-top box to output SD channels as 480i. Most cable/satellite STBs and DVRs provide the option to output SD as 480i to your TV, although it is not always obvious how to enable this feature. If you need help, ask in the HDTV Hardware forum.

Hmmmmm... that makes a lot of sense, but I'm not sure how (if at all) it can help me. You see, I was under the impression that a VP-30 or VP-50 would improve the picture quality from the incoming signal (be it a satellite box, DVD player, or whatever), and then send it to the display source. Thus, the display source has a *much* better quality image to begin with before it does any of its own processing. So this assumption is incorrect?

Here's my situation: I'm going to have a home theater with a 106" screen and projector (haven't decided on the projector yet). Obviously, the bigger the screen, the worse a bad image will look. Thus, I was hoping to upscale the image so watching TV there wouldn't be a horrible experience. Of course, I'm also planning on using matrix distribution for some signals throughout my home, and thus I could use the processor to send the improved signal to various other TVs, too.

Basically, you're saying that unless I can "turn off" the video processing from the display units (be it a prjector, plasma, or whatever), I'll likely see very little difference form using a VP-30 or something equivalent?

Thus, the display source has a *much* better quality image to begin with before it does any of its own processing. So this assumption is incorrect?Except for products that apply deblocking and denoise, you can't improve the quality of the source. Aside from some noise reduction -- which many people disable --- a video processor like the VP30 doesn't improve the quality of the source. It deinterlaces and scales the source. The circuitry inside the TV does the same thing.

The reason people get a better picture with external video processors is because those products generally do a much better job of deinterlace and scaling than the cheap circuitry in the TV. When you use a display with 1:1 pixel mapping, you take full advantage of an external video processor, because you see the original output from that processor on a screen.

When a display doesn't have 1:1 pixel mapping, it will refilter and rescale the input. Thus, you take advantage of improved deinterlacing performance of the external video processor, but not full advantage of its scaling functionality. That is significant, because scaling is the area where so many displays go wrong. Most displays with cheap circuitry introduce new artifacts into the picture during the scaling process.

As an aside, note the VP30 is basically the VP50 without the improved high-definition processing. If you plan to watch any significant amount of HD on cable or satellite, the VP50 would be a much better choice. If you still haven't decided on a projector, you may want to take a look at the JVC DLA-RS1 (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=813550&page=1&pp=30), which integrates VP50-quality processing (specifically, a Gennum VXP) in a 1080p projector for around $5k.

So THAT's why the RS1 has been being talked about so much. Basically, it not only has stunning piture quality, but also can make virtually any video signal (satellite, etc) look much, much better?

Basically, all of this is new to me. I thought a display was just that--a display. It receives a signal and just throws it on the screen--no processing, etc. I thought picture quality depended 100% on the source.


Anyway, I had planned on buying the Panasonic PT-AX100U projector. Is its video processing any good? I was just looking to buy 720p for now, but was considering 1080p. And the Gennum VXP is the "king" of VPing right now? What about this "Let it wave" technology I read about somewhere? (http://www.letitwave.com/home.html) I assume it's not much of anything?

Basically, all of this is new to me. I thought a display was just that--a display. It receives a signal and just throws it on the screen--no processing, etc. I thought picture quality depended 100% on the source.Wish that were true! It would certainly simplify the process of choosing a new display. You'd only have to worry about the contrast, color decoder, display uniformity, etc.

Modern digital displays are progressive, fixed panel devices. You can't display an interlaced signal on the screen until it is deinterlaced to create a progressive signal -- hence the need for deinterlace circuitry in displays. And you can't fill the screen with the signal unless it matches the fixed resolution of the display -- hence the need for scaling circuitry in displays.

And the Gennum VXP is the "king" of VPing right now? What about this "Let it wave" technology I read about somewhere?Gennum and Silicon Optix both provide high-quality solutions for video processing (deinterlace, scaling, etc). ABT is another supplier of quality ICs, but they created their own subsidiary (DVDO) to market their solutions. Most >$1000 external video processors discussed in this forum use processors from one of those three companies. Here's a post from another thread:

At the moment, there are only two independent suppliers of video processors that deliver high quality for both SD and HD -- Silicon Optix (ReonVX, Realta) and Gennum (VXP). They are the Nvidia and ATI of the video processor market. Their solutions are complex pieces of silicon; a CE manufacturer like Samsung, Sony, or Toshiba can't create a comparable solution to the Silicon Optix Realta (>100 million transistors) any more than they can create the latest graphics chip from ATI or Nvidia. Unfortunately, the bulk of the market still consists of low-end, low-performance solutions, just as most PCs use integrated graphics.

In terms of part cost, the video processors in most $2000-$3000 TVs cost $8 to $15 in quantity. The Silicon Optix ReonVX costs $15-$20 depending on quantity, while the Realta costs $25-$40 depending on quantity. However, the real difference in cost isn't in the part, but rather in the implementation -- most display vendors have extensive experience with cheap, low-quality solutions from Genesis (i.e. Faroudja), but no experience with more modern solutions from Silicon Optix and Gennum. That's not at all surprising, since Genesis (Faroudja) has used minor variations of the same technology for the past five years; they haven't spent the resources to revamp their architectures for 1080p.

Manufacturers already have all the firmware code (i.e. graphics drivers) they need to implement a cheap, low-performance solution from Genesis (i.e. Faroudja), so it can be difficult to justify the cost -- and delay in time to market -- to engineer the firmware (graphics driver) and implementation for a completely new video processor architecture. The latest consumer video processor solutions from Gennum and Silicon Optix are less than a year old. Of course, Silicon Optix and Gennum offer reference implementations (source code), but it's still quite a task to properly integrate that code with the software platform used by the TV.

The overwhelming majority of LCD manufacturers are re-using older [video processor] hardware and software designs with their latest 1080p panels as a means to speed time to market. They are using display processors whose architectures were designed well before we even had 1080p panels, with video firmware (driver software) created years ago -- and you wonder why scaling quality stinks?

So THAT's why the RS1 has been being talked about so much. Basically, it not only has stunning piture quality, but also can make virtually any video signal (satellite, etc) look much, much better?Compared to the display circuitry used in most displays and projectors, yes. Until very recently, it wasn't possible to buy a <$10k projector with high-quality video processing from Gennum or Silicon Optix.

Anyway, I had planned on buying the Panasonic PT-AX100U projector. Is its video processing any good?I don't really follow the 720p projectors. I don't know what video processor that display uses. However, I don't think Panasonic offers a consumer projector with high-quality deinterlace and scaling, so you'd probably need to look at third-party solutions for their lineup.

If you still haven't decided on a projector, you may want to take a look at the JVC DLA-RS1 (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=813550&page=1&pp=30), which integrates VP50-quality processing (specifically, a Gennum VXP) in a 1080p projector for around $5k.
Unfortunately, due to the oversaturated primaries that have been designed into the RS1 and it's very limited user controls, if you want to correct this and have accurate colors, a VP with a CMS (color management system) is needed and there aren't any VP's available at this time that have individual primary color correction . Supposedly the Radiance will have this ability but it won't be implemented in it's initial release. How long we'll have to wait until a firmware update for this is anyone's guess.