In reading some of the news about hacking the AppleTV to play other file formats, I found this very interesting page here (http://filmnut.vox.com/library/post/play-virtually-any-video-format-in-apple-tv.html) that describes a method to have virtually any film format playable on AppleTV WITHOUT transcoding and without opening and hacking the AppleTV! Interestingly, this technique was written before the AppleTV was even distributed!

Although I don't have an AppleTV to test this on, I followed the technique and was able to have iTunes open any film. Aside from iTunes, the only thing you apparently need is the Pro version of Quicktime.

Basically, the trick is to load QT with various codecs (there is a link to a package), open a film, then save it as a "reference movie". These are rather small files (3MB, for example) that take 1-3 seconds to create, depending on your machine. iTunes can open these files (they have a .mov extension) and play them with no problem (even though the original file may be an .avi or .wmv)

If you then move this "reference movie" to your movies folder, Front Row will also see it and will list it and play it. The version of Front Row that I am running (on a G5) is very old, yet it shows a preview of the film next to its name.

Oh.

Wow.

Well, that changes everything. It has something for everyone: support for lots of codecs, plus it requires just enough hacking and comfort with a computer that the unLuddites can feel like they still have to do *something* that my mother can't do to make this work, but it still has ease-of-use. Everybody wins!!!!!

Now... someone point me to the press release where iTunes is selling HD content so I can be truly content.

Having Front Row be able to play something on your local machine is different than having the AppleTV play it, no? You would need to have the codecs installed on the AppleTV, since it is what is doing the playback, not on your local iTunes machine.

Have you tried this with an AppleTV?

The problem with this approach is that the author is assuming that appleTV has the codecs to play the videos once they are sync'd there. It doesn't. The upside of this approach, is that using the reference movies to inject content into itunes does work. This is the method that the team at Something Awful used yesterday to get iTunes to sync the xvid files into appleTV.

But they took it many steps further. They pulled the hard drive from the appleTV, added in Perian (and some other codecs), put the drive back in the appleTV [and did a bunch more here which I won't elaborate on--it's all documented at awkwardtv.org], and got the videos to play.

I haven't checked back in today, but last night, the project was embarking on a huge string of goals: get keyboard and USB working, gain entry without having to remove the drive, add codecs without having to remove drive, run other applications (they had VLC running!) get ARD/VNC running, change the default front end application, and much more.

Basically, Apple has left the appleTV open to modification. the debate wil ensue about whether or not it was intentional, but anytime you use the login and password for the device as "frontrow; frontrow" you haven't even closed the Front Door, much less put a lock on it.

So given this technique, some of the folks anticipate using a script to watch a folder where you put your videos, generate the reference movie, inject it into iTunes, sync with appleTV, and then you can play it from the front end. Coupled with this will be a method to modify the appleTV OS to inject the codec support. So what you get is a volume (anywhere you want--even on a NAS) where you can archive your real movies, with the reference movie (a QuickTime reference movie is basically a pointer, with the ability to act as a URL handler, or kinda like a symlink, used mostly in setting up a quicktime movie for the web) getting imported into iTunes, and sync'd over to appleTV.

This may all change as more and more people get their hands on appleTVs and start building on each others' experience. Yesterday there were only a few appleTVs and up to 80 people at a time working on an irc channel pushing things along. It was a fun ride! Wish I had an appleTV in hand to play along. I learned a lot.

The problem with this approach is that the author is assuming that appleTV has the codecs to play the videos once they are sync'd there. It doesn't. The upside of this approach, is that using the reference movies to inject content into itunes does work.

It's a shame that none of us have an AppleTV to test this on :(

The way I look at this is that QT and iTunes are two different applications. If, for example, you load up QT with codecs, does that mean that iTunes can play anything that QT has a codec for? I just tried it and it does not seem to work.

If just plain iTunes can play a reference movie, however, that suggests to me that AppleTV can play it. (Hasn't Apple all along been saying: If iTunes can play it, AppleTV can play it?) The question is, as you pointed out, a reference movie seems to be a sort of symlink, although at 3MB it seems to be very big, and it is unknown if AppleTV can follow that symlink and play the movie.

I guess we'll just have to wait until someone with an AppleTV can try it.

Good lord, awkwardtv.org site is an education...I think someone will put Vista MCE on it eventually then part of the discussion of the Apple TV will have to move to the MCE on the Mac thread.
:)The boot partition is only 900MB, with a 900MB separate recovery partition. To try otherwise than running appleTV OS 10.4.7 you'd have to reformat the drive, kill the partitions, and successfully restore a MCE clone or image there. Then you'd have to bypass firmware/hardware dependencies, and have the right drivers to run the hardware, which has never run MCE before to get it to boot. Have fun, and good luck!

In other words: I don't think so. :rolleyes: . Linux maybe after the box gets well documented.

I am so happy that they have gone this far in this amount of time. My only issues with th appleTv is the movie audio support. Apple says it can only play movies with audio up to 160 kbs and mentions nothing about supporting 5.1.

Do you guys think with hacks we can get a higher birate with 5.1?

Do you guys think with hacks we can get a higher birate with 5.1?The a52 codec (provides ac3 support) can be installed. Folks are testing it with different sources/formats to see what it can do. No reports yet on success/failure.

It's a shame that none of us have an AppleTV to test this on :(.

I have an Apple TV and I was sure that this would not work, but I tested it anyway just to make sure. Just as I suspected, it does not work.

So, to play all those video formats you will need to do the hack where you install the codecs on the Apple TV hard drive itself.

Does anybody know if this hack will allow Flip4Mac Drive-in to play?

Oh.

Wow.

Well, that changes everything. It has something for everyone: support for lots of codecs, plus it requires just enough hacking and comfort with a computer that the unLuddites can feel like they still have to do *something* that my mother can't do to make this work, but it still has ease-of-use. Everybody wins!!!!!

Now... someone point me to the press release where iTunes is selling HD content so I can be truly content.

Patience, my friend, patience.

You're right though, it can be agonizing knowing that the perfect home theater device is so close. How hard can it be to add the HD content, 5.1 output, an external hard drive (USB for maintenence, yeah right!), direct iTunes store access.

Tonight's report (see details at wiki.awkwardtv.org/wiki/ (http://wiki.awkwardtv.org/wiki/) :

the watchdog has been pacified--applications can run indefinitely now. Frontrow/Backrow GUI can be killed.

VLC is playing 720p xvids. smooth, no stutters
Perian, a52 codec support added
No word on 5.1 yet.
Firefox runs
CenterStage runs
ARD/VNC runs
Apache runs

Today's team says that by tomorrow night (monday night) tutorial will be up on how to take the aTV from store to CenterStage.

Work in progress:

get USB working
modding without pulling hard drive
GUI to run apps
mounting remote volume in aTV
mounting aTV volume remotely
playing from network sharepoint
etc.

These guys rock!

Tonight's report (see details at wiki.awkwardtv.org/wiki/ (http://wiki.awkwardtv.org/wiki/) :

the watchdog has been pacified--applications can run indefinitely now. Frontrow/Backrow GUI can be killed.

VLC is playing 720p xvids. smooth, no stutters
Perian, a52 codec support added
No word on 5.1 yet.
Firefox runs
CenterStage runs
ARD/VNC runs
Apache runs

Today's team says that by tomorrow night (monday night) tutorial will be up on how to take the aTV from store to CenterStage.

Work in progress:

get USB working
modding without pulling hard drive
GUI to run apps
mounting remote volume in aTV
mounting aTV volume remotely
playing from network sharepoint
etc.

These guys rock!

These guys are awesome ! I'm gonna be keeping an eye on them.

This is all very impressive -- and quick! I wonder if this will end up like the situation with Linksys routers, for example: since the routers can run Linux, there are a number of projects that offer alternative operating systems and features, such as this one: http://www.hyperwrt.org/Home-Page.shtml

So, perhaps in a few months (or weeks?) time, there will be a site where you can pick the features you want, then download the version that supports those features and install on AppleTV.

Considering that Steve Jobs had recently attacked DRM and the AppleTV seems to have purposely been left open, I wonder if Apple/Jobs expected this? Since users may be able to soon add all the features they want, I would imagine that sales of this would go through the roof! Well, that sounds like Steve :cool:

I would imagine that sales of this would go through the roof!
I think you largely overestimate the number of people who will want to hack their ATV boxes...

I think you largely overestimate the number of people who will want to hack their ATV boxes...

That depends on how you define "hacking". If you mean opening the box, poking around and running commands from the terminal, then I agree with you. However, if it will eventually be possible to download a file, import to iTunes or something like that, then sync it with AppleTV, then I think a lot of people will do it.

I don't know if you've looked, but on the forum where they are discussing the hacking, a lot of people are writing things like "I wasn't planning to get one, but now I will."

However, in the end, I think Apple will still sell a substantial number of them and that will perhaps encourage Apple to incorporate some of the "hacks" into future versions. That way, everyone will benefit.

Well, it turns out that the guy's idea about reference movies working on AppleTV is correct after all! Where he was mistaken is that first you need this program (http://wiki.awkwardtv.org/wiki/index.php?title=Media_Library), then you need to "copy these files to AppleTV". A little more work than first thought, but still success at the end.

I have a dumb question. Can Apple update this thing via internet the way ipods are updatable and lock these puppies down?

I have a dumb question. Can Apple update this thing via internet the way ipods are updatable and lock these puppies down?

iPods are not updateable via the Internet -- you have to connect it to your computer and decide to update it only if you want to.

I can't think of any Apple product that can be updated without the user's permission. So, I would doubt very much that Apple would do that with AppleTV.

I have a dumb question. Can Apple update this thing via internet the way ipods are updatable and lock these puppies down?

Yes, they definitely have internet software update capabilities. It probably requires user approval, much like standard Mac OS X requires the user to approve updates. It will be interesting to see if Apple does take measures to stop the small percentage of us "hackers" from messing with it.

As an x86 platform, there will always be ways of totally modifying it for your needs (e.g. installing Linux on the hard drive and making something like the XBox Media Center). But, then you would lose the benefit of all the Apple capabilities and optimizations. Modifying a mostly-stock device is probably more interesting for most people. Sort of like how you can instal Linux on an iPod, but how many people would really want that?

One interesting bit to me is "reverse hacking" my MacBook Pro.

The H.264 component on the AppleTV presumably uses the hardware acceleration of the NVidia GPU to decode 720P H.264, as I don't think the 1GHz CPU is capable of doing it in software alone. It would be interesting to use this on a standard Mac to see what benefit it gives for video acceleration. Of course, my MacBook Pro has an ATI GPU, so it will most likely not work. But, depending on how they implement the acceleration it could be relevant to other hardware (e.g. GLSL code using the OpenGL shaders stuff).

I'm hoping this same capability is present in Leopard. I would really like to see Apple taking more advantage of the GPU hardware on our systems. I have a pipe dream of Apple also implementing similar acceleration for MPEG2, but that's unlikely at best.

iPods are not updateable via the Internet -- you have to connect it to your computer and decide to update it only if you want to.

I can't think of any Apple product that can be updated without the user's permission. So, I would doubt very much that Apple would do that with AppleTV.

Thats basically what I meant.

Perhaps it is not really relevant, but the two Steves (Jobs and Wozniak) who founded Apple Computer were "hackers" (Wozniak more than Jobs probably). People of course change, but still, Mac OS is much more an open system than, for example, Windows. For example, you can throw away anything you like, even though it may stop your computer from working (in Windows, there are even _applications_ you can't throw away). The Unix basis of OS X is (Free BSD) open source, so programmers are free to hack it all they like. Windows is, of course, closed source.

Although parts of OS X are closed source as well, there are other parts (Darwin, for example) that are open source.

So, while technically, it might be possible for Apple to "lock down" AppleTV, their history says they are very unlikely to do it.

Perhaps it is not really relevant, but the two Steves (Jobs and Wozniak) who founded Apple Computer were "hackers" (Wozniak more than Jobs probably). People of course change, but still, Mac OS is much more an open system than, for example, Windows. For example, you can throw away anything you like, even though it may stop your computer from working (in Windows, there are even _applications_ you can't throw away). The Unix basis of OS X is (Free BSD) open source, so programmers are free to hack it all they like. Windows is, of course, closed source.

Although parts of OS X are closed source as well, there are other parts (Darwin, for example) that are open source.

So, while technically, it might be possible for Apple to "lock down" AppleTV, their history says they are very unlikely to do it.

thats good to know.

LET THE HACKING BEGIN!!

OK, lots of questions this morning. Instead of going through them one by one, I'm going to look at them together, offer some observations, and some opinions. I haven't gotten an aTV yet, as they aren't locally available, and I want the convenience of returning it to my local Best Buy store when I brick it, instead of having to return it to Apple ;-)

First off, what is the goal of all of the hacking? It is to get a full understanding of the hardware and software, and what its capabilities are. It's a challenge. An intellectual and practical pursuit.

Don't underestimate the people who are working on this. I've spent three days following the progress and offering what insight and help I can. It is a group mind of 80+ people at a time working together--hardware pros, software pros, unix pros, Mac pros, AV people, and a sprinkling of youthful "enthusiasm." I've learned more about the workings of the Mac hardware/software unix-based platform in the last three days than I have in the last three years (sort of--as it pertains to the aTV). It is phenomenal to see how a group mind works via IRC--I've never done that before, and the progress that has been displayed shows that.

So what do we do along the way to achieving that goal? We are able to let people see what Apple has been planning for us (the consumer) in a way that Apple could never do itself publically. And we are able to see the aTV in a different light from the average consumer who only sees the device from Apple's viewpoint (which is mostly what we've been discussing at AVS until the device was released).

Along the way, we are able to see what capabilities the device has (like playing 720p xvids without stutter). How the software is different and similar to Mac OS X. How the software interacts with the hardware (performance, dependencies and fail-safe mechanisms). How such seemingly limited hardware (256MB, 1Ghz pentium M) can do so much with a relatively high powered gpu (nvidia 7300). The choice of a weaker processor and a stronger gpu than the Mini is an interesting debate, one I'll leave to the likes of Anandtech.

One of the objectives of the hacking is to see what Mac software, unmodified, can run on the device, and how well can it run. It doesn't make any difference that CenterStage was chosen for one of the test beds. it is open source, and though it doesn't perform very well right now--it has its downsides--showing that it can run on the aTV will (I should say most likely already "has") stimulate development progress. Once developers of things like CenterStage, MediaCentral, and the rest of the frontends see the potential market for a device like the aTV explode, and the interest that is shown for software, they will go to town.

Make no mistake, compared to the number of regular macs being used as htpc's, the number of aTVs could quickly overrun them. And each one becomes a potential user of another software system (think buying a third party, vertically integrated aTV solution from a vendor). In other words, what we are trying to do with the Mac as a htpc will be extended to the aTV, through its ability to be modified/extended. I think that Apple believes that the number of people who will buy a Mac to add to their home theatre (or just to their TV) is fairly insignificant compared to the number of people who may buy an aTV to "extend" the iTunes/iLife experience from the den to the living room. So the question still remains, what does an aTV bring to the equation that a Mac Mini doesn't, and vice versa? That question will have to remain for a later date, as both become better understood in their role in Apple's strategy.

Another objective will be to provide enhanced capabilities to the aTV in the simplest possible way to those who want to step out of the Apple-defined sphere of the aTV. Everybody wants to do things in the easiest way, so that the greatest number of people can follow along. Ideally, the mods can be done without cracking the case (as the title of this thread suggests "without touching it"). Either via USB, or through the network, or using iTunes, it should be possible for the aTV to be modified and administered. How that happens will take a little bit of time, as more knowledge and experience is gathered. But Apple has to have designed some system to work with the box once it has been deployed. Otherwise, how would they service it, upgrade the OS, extend features via firmware, fix bugs, or offer third party developers a place to augment the platform? If Apple can get into the box, so should we be able to, too, or so it goes.

Why do I think that Apple is doing what it is doing? First off, the aTV is nothing more than a skimmed down Mini, with a cheaper processor, a decent gpu, and a slimmed down version of Mac OS X (customized for the aTV). What you can do with the aTV can be done with the Mini (for the most part--differences between Front Row and the aTV's GUI aside). But because Apple chose to base the aTV on the Mac platform, it offers incredible opportunity for development. It truly is the "Micro" Mac.

I have no doubt that Apple isn't choosing to keep this box locked down to the Apple-sanctioned way of doing things because it has a lot of plans for future development. If you look at the upcoming WWDC, Apple has sessions planned for developers on the aTV. Why would do this if they weren't going to open the platform a little? As it is, the platform is very open, though it is up to the hacking teams to discover how and what that openess entails. I'm sure the mainstream developers will get an inside track on all of this. And given that so much Mac software already runs on the aTV, it won't be difficult for developers to bring their products to the device. How Apple chooses to let them in, in a "sanctioned" way, is another matter. How to install software, how to support third party efforts, how does it integrate with Apple software/OS updates, etc.

Basically, the hackers, by extending the box now, run the risk of having to backtrack and redo a lot of work, in the event that Apple has included some sort of live updating. Or adds desireable features. What happens when aTV 2.0 comes out? But it is a learning experience, and one that had the participation of many Mac software/hardware developers. I saw quite a few developers come in and participate, only to leave and go to their day jobs (actually, some were participating from their day jobs, with the blessing of their businesses), carrying the knowledge they had gained from the hacking, and for some, to begin improving their Mac products and designing new ones.

As to the sales ideas, I don't think that Apple is concerned at all about the effect of aTV hacking on sales. They have their marketing and strategic plan. Yes there are many people, myself included, who after seeing that the aTV is as open as it is, and seeing that it has decent hardware capabilities, will go and buy one, if for nothing more than to have a $300 device upon which to explore and learn about Apple technology. It's a relatively cheap toy, and will provide hours of fun just taking it apart and putting it back together again (differently) just to see what it can do.

Strategically, I think that what Apple has done is brilliant. In the same way that the iPhone is based on Mac OS X, the OS X-based aTV also will leverage a very mature technological base and development environment to move into the CE space and the living room. They have introduced a platform that has an incredible room for growth and maturation. Though the aTV has many faults, over time, Apple will address them, and the platform will expand, much as the iPod platform has.

I don't know if you've looked, but on the forum where they are discussing the hacking, a lot of people are writing things like "I wasn't planning to get one, but now I will."

I've definitely been following various forums on this and recognize the growing excitement. However, I think just like most TiVo customers don't upgrade or hack their TiVo's, mainstream ATV customers won't either. I just think the numbers of mainstream ATV customers will dwarf the hacking enthusiasts by a large margin (out of 90 million iPods, how many do you think have been hacked to put linux on it?).

But at this point its just speculation on anyone's part. It will be interesting to see what enfolds!

I can't think of any Apple product that can be updated without the user's permission. So, I would doubt very much that Apple would do that with AppleTV.

ATV will ask the user for permission to apply an update.

wildrock,

Great post!

You know, I've been one of the ones that has been poo-poo'ing the aTV ever since the specs were released (back during MWSF). Now that they're shipping and the hacking community is working their magic, I am seriously considering a purchase. It really seems to be a great device with lots of potential.

I'm hoping that the aTV can be opened up to do the following:

1. Play eyeTV files without re-encoding.

2. Play DVD rips without re-encoding - although this is a secondary want.

3. Surf the internet with a keyboard/mouse (or wildrock's upcoming iPhone based universal remote)

4. Buy iTS media from the comfort of my Crate and Barrel family room sofa

Of my 4 wants, #1 is the strongest. If this happens, I will go out and buy an EyeTV or Miglia device to supplement my Sony DVR.

ft

I would like it to play ripped DVD's (MPEG-2 TS Folders) from an NAS and display DVD cover art in the UI.

1. Play eyeTV files without re-encoding.

2. Play DVD rips without re-encoding - although this is a secondary want

....

4. Buy iTS media from the comfort of my Crate and Barrel family room sofa
They already have VLC running on it. AFAIK, VLC will play both VIDEO_TS folders and EyeTV recordings. Does VLC depend on any external codecs/software to do so? If not, the main question is whether the AppleTV CPU will have enough power to do it -- my guess would be yes for VIDEO_TS and no for full rez EyeTV, at least not without VLC using the GPU acceleration.

As for 4), that's entirely in Apple's hands, and I would readily believe it will be supported in the future.

Right now 5.1 is the most important thing right now. I want this ATV to be the centerpiece in my living room so it needs that.

for those with an SA account the ATV thread there is the place to be.

the next thing that seems to be happening getting the ATV to boot from USB. that way you can add files and activate ssh without opening it up.

I saw an article with a picture of World of Warcraft running on the AppleTV. I'm surprised it can handle that with only 256MB of RAM. But, if it can do that, maybe it can run MythFrontend. Of course, it wouldn't be able to do 1080i, but there is an outside chance of 720p (MPEG2).

Others have already run VLC on it, so it could be used along with an HDHomeRun tuner device to play broadcast HDTV content (within the limits of the CPU).

They already have VLC running on it. AFAIK, VLC will play both VIDEO_TS folders and EyeTV recordings. Does VLC depend on any external codecs/software to do so? If not, the main question is whether the AppleTV CPU will have enough power to do it -- my guess would be yes for VIDEO_TS and no for full rez EyeTV, at least not without VLC using the GPU acceleration.

As for 4), that's entirely in Apple's hands, and I would readily believe it will be supported in the future.
Well, in the spirit of the hacker, I'd like to ammend my wants/desires. As far as support for Video_TS and EyeTV files, I'd like to see them supported from the aTV menu structure. I guess using VLC is a good fall back, as long as the aTV menu is still functional.

ft

Well, in the spirit of the hacker, I'd like to ammend my wants/desires. As far as support for Video_TS and EyeTV files, I'd like to see them supported from the aTV menu structure. I guess using VLC is a good fall back, as long as the aTV menu is still functional.


Good news. That's been done.

Good news. That's been done.
Opening a DVD's Video_TS folders from the aTV menu structure? Or manually opening them in VLC?

If they can get Video_TS functional in aTV that will be all I need to purchase one of these. I would love to be able to browse my DVD library in aTV with cover art and metadata.

Opening a DVD's Video_TS folders from the aTV menu structure? Or manually opening them in VLC?

If they can get Video_TS functional in aTV that will be all I need to purchase one of these. I would love to be able to browse my DVD library in aTV with cover art and metadata.

The AppleTV has quite limited functionality. However, there is an ongoing project by hackers to turn it into something much more useful. Among the things they have done so far is, as I said, modify the menu, also boot from an external drive, install VLC and play DVDs with it getting surround sound, add codecs to QuickTime so that divx and other file types can be played and even gotten AppleTV to boot on a MacBook.

As AppleTV has only been out for a few days, this is an amazing accomplishment. At this point, no one, including the hackers, knows exactly how it will end up. So, stay tuned!

Bummer, I thought you were telling me they got Video_TS working in the aTV interface already. :)

I've been following the progress as well (if you subscribe to any tech RSS feeds it's hard not to!), but for those who don't know, take a peek at wiki (put a dot here) awkwardtv (put a dot here) org for some updates and tips.

Edit - Had to remove the link text cause I don't have 5 posts yet.

At this point, no one, including the hackers, knows exactly how it will end up. So, stay tuned!This is very accurate. If I were to venture a guess, I think that the aTV projects will be a long term interest for many. As Apple updates and advances the hardware/software so will the teams work on that.

My sense is that the efforts will go in many different directions. One direction will be to put different OS's on the hardware--particularly linux, though some PC folks want to conquer the aTV with MCE, or xbox derivative. Another effort will try to bring the added AV functionality (original stuff like the BackRow frameworks and the new Front Row GUI) of the aTV to regular Macs, like the Mini.

Another thought goes to taking the Apple environment, and augmenting it by doing things like getting iTunes to manage more formats, and the aTV to play as many formats as possible with 5.1, in the best resolutions possible (like the work demonstrating 720p xvids), or third party vertically integrated solutions, or games. This is the direction that third party Apple sanctioned efforts most likely will pursue.

The last effort will be to take the aTV, and modify it to run as many Mac apps as possible, and/or to run open source apps and technology on it. This is the most exciting, as it offerers the potential for a lot of open source projects, like VLC and CenterStage, among many others, to get involved. I think that we eventually will see disk images of the Apple TV OS floating around, or installer packages, that will add a wide variety of applications, file format support, hardware support, etc. Then there will be the ability to add shareware and freeware to the bundle.

While this most likely skirts Apple's licensing for the aTV and aTV OS, it will be done in the spirit of bringing the best experience possible back to aTV owners without using any pirated software or breaking license agreements, violating copyrights, or infringing on patents. Legalitites of doing various things are continually being discussed as the work progresses--but of course there are no lawyers involved yet, so it is all speculation done while Doing The Right Thing. There also will be a place for some third party commercial applications there.

I think that this last end will be achieved by having full USB support, support for multiple different remotes instead of the Apple Remote, ability to play content off of multiple network share points, different management systems than iTunes, possibility for tuner integration, etc.

In short, I think that the goal of the open source direction may be to provide the best htpc experience possible on the Mac. What I see standing in the way of that is that the project teams don't always have the most discerning ears and eyes that we have come to appreciate here at AVS. So a lot of the fine distinctions we draw here in the comparisons of our methods will not go on for the hacked aTV until it gets further developed, deployed and tested and used by those that have a lot of experience in this area.

This sort of fine tuning will necessitate, for instance, the maturation of some codecs, rewriting some device drivers, writing code and scripts to accomplish various tasks, integrating software and hardware in ways that haven't been done before. But this is all great stuff for the Mac platform as it is drawing a lot of talented individuals and developers to bear on a lot of problems. And all of the work on the aTV can be backpedalled to the Mac Mini, for instance, and lead to a more rapid progression of its htpc capabilities.

All in all, a happy time for all things Mac! The aTV is a Mac at heart, not just a minimalist box with an embedded OS that can't do anything but act as an iTunes slave. These teams are blazing new trails for Apple, and it is a good thing.

I think that any request that anyone has here for specific features has been repeated in the project rooms, and is being explored. So if you don't immediately hear what you want, video_ts support for instance, do not despair, as it inevitably will come up and be tested. Or it already may have been, and other more pressing matters are going on, and it just hasn't been added to the wiki, or reported elsewhere, or retested and verified by many people. While we may hear about breakthroughs of one sort or another, once that happens, many people jump on the advancement and test it, refine it and document it. It is not just a one time, "I played WoW on my aTV" so it works type thing.

Patience furthers... (my apologies to Further ;-) ).

Opening a DVD's Video_TS folders from the aTV menu structure? Or manually opening them in VLC?

If they can get Video_TS functional in aTV that will be all I need to purchase one of these. I would love to be able to browse my DVD library in aTV with cover art and metadata.
This is precisely what I'm waiting for as well. It'll be a nice bonus when it can import my .flac library as well. :)

I'm backing up all of my 400+ DVDs in a j:\movies\Batman Begins\VIDEO_TS folder structure, and as soon as the aTV can load them up I'm buying one.

Hm, that wiki at awkwardtv.org mentions they have .vob with 5.1 channel sound working. Can anyone point me in the direction of some more information on that?

A week ago I had totally 100% written the aTV off, but the hacks that have been accomplished so far have me itching to buy one. The thread over at SomethingAwful is pretty inspiring to watch and I can't wait for the next development. I only wish I could help out!

Hm, that wiki at awkwardtv.org mentions they have .vob with 5.1 channel sound working. Can anyone point me in the direction of some more information on that?The wiki is the definitive place for information right now (not that there isn't info elsewhere). It will try to link to all relevant info or other sources of info.

A week ago I had totally 100% written the aTV off, but the hacks that have been accomplished so far have me itching to buy one. The thread over at SomethingAwful is pretty inspiring to watch and I can't wait for the next development. I only wish I could help out!Plug in. What's holding you back?

Patience furthers... (my apologies to Further ;-) ).

After a great post like that, no need for apologies!

But, to add to what Wildrock wrote: I hope/believe that when everything is ready, the project team and/or other people will create disk images for each possibility. So, if you want to run MythTV, Centerstage, FrontRow Plus, etc. each will have a difference image you can download and install it on an external drive connected to the USB port on the AppleTV.

I have no idea when this will happen, but, as long as it can be done (and the knowledge of how to do it is spreading across the Internet already), different teams will have different goals and the results will very likely be different versions. This should be fun!

Hm, that wiki at awkwardtv.org mentions they have .vob with 5.1 channel sound working. Can anyone point me in the direction of some more information on that?

There is some great work going on right now, but it isn't ready for prime time yet.

For example, you can install VLC on the ATV, then mount a smb share on your mac and open a .vob file and play it with with 5.1.

But there is a catch, you can only play the movie for 6 mins, then watchdog kills it.
They haven't figured out how to prevent watchdog from killing their applications.

As for other codec support. They have successfully installed other codecs on the ATV, but the ATV doesn't know it can play them, so it still refuses to sync them. The work around is to sync a legit reference movie, then once it syncs to the ATV, over write the reference movie via SSH with your reference movie pointing to an unsupported file. Less than ideal to say the least.

This doesn't mean these accomplishments are trivial, cause there not, but at the same time, there is still alot of work to be done.

There is some great work going on right now, but it isn't ready for prime time yet.

For example, you can install VLC on the ATV, then mount a smb share on your mac and open a .vob file and play it with with 5.1.

But there is a catch, you can only play the movie for 6 mins, then watchdog kills it.
They haven't figured out how to prevent watchdog from killing their applications.

As for other codec support. They have successfully installed other codecs on the ATV, but the ATV doesn't know it can play them, so it still refuses to sync them. The work around is to sync a legit reference movie, then once it syncs to the ATV, over write the reference movie via SSH with your reference movie pointing to an unsupported file. Less than ideal to say the least.

This doesn't mean these accomplishments are trivial, cause there not, but at the same time, there is still alot of work to be done.

Hey Ben, is the EngadgetHD podcast ever coming back (to iTunes?). I'd love to hear you discuss the ATV with Matt or the gang.

But there is a catch, you can only play the movie for 6 mins, then watchdog kills it. They haven't figured out how to prevent watchdog from killing their applications.


I looked at the wiki yesterday, and they had instructions for disabling watchdog all together. It is a bit of a sledgehammer-to-kill-a-fly approach, but it should solve that problem.

Hey Ben, is the EngadgetHD podcast ever coming back (to iTunes?). I'd love to hear you discuss the ATV with Matt or the gang.


Matt just doesn't have the time and I haven't found a permanent fill in for him.
We are going to be doing a special format war episode this week with Tyler aka wifispy and next week I hope to do a special with Dave Zatz about the AppleTV vs the Xbox360.

Check out the crazy mod by Powermax: http://www.powermax.com/product/Apple_TV_with_PowerMax-Upgraded_120_GB_hard_Drive/a-ma711ll/a-120gb.html?PHPSESSID=3d725b27e8284c31e876b1beccabc9a6,
and Macservice: http://www.macservice.com/appletv.html

It would probably be much cheaper to do it oneself, though.