Place the usual set of comments in this thread. Include location (if not already in your profile) reception method (OTA, cable, DSS) and how much it bothers you that Brian Williams nose is REALLY off-center.

Doc

And remember, NO SPOILERS.

Looks great in NYC OTA, a preview was shown during WNBC's local news.

And remember, NO SPOILERS. Aw, man!! Wish I'd have thought of that. I'd have stuck it in the title. You win.

While I understand that this is an important step in the long road to HD, this is a lot of fuss for a program with 22 minutes of content which will have a lot of SD field reports. Someone should add up just how many minutes and seconds of real HD we actually get.

HD on WBAL in Baltimore.

No HD in Jacksonville, FL

HD on KPRC in Texas.

This is awesome. Good work NBC.

Edit: I can see the "NN HD" in the top right corner. While its in 4:3 mode.

In addition to stretching the video used for some of the promo's I thought the intro looked soft.

The studio shot was nice, but this show really suffers with all the actual reports in SD. Had they used 480p widescreen cameras, it would be a nice-looking interim step. I would have expected at least the taped studio interviews to at least be HD.

As is, everytime they go to the field, it feels like a visual version of a speed bump.

I can see the advantage of being the first network news show to go HD, but the almost-jarring shift from HD to SD makes the overall product suffer. If I were NBC, I think I would have waited until at least 80% of content were either HD or widescreen SD.

This won't make me any more likely to watch the NBC Nightly News, unfortunately.

Scott

HD in Boston (They were about 5 seconds late in flipping over, got a few sec of intro in upscaled SD) , SD looks soft, and blurry. HD looks good, Can see pillars even on the SD chan (barely), but the HD looks good, NN HD is a bit lame to me (woulda done a NBC News HD or something, to really push the brand, but i dunno)

Still, another 30 min or so of HD = Ill take it!

HD on WXII-DT, Winston Salem, NC OTA.

I guess I've just become jaded. While it looks good and is certainly in HD. It is, afterall is said and done, NBC news.

The studio clips look very good in HD. I like the pillar bars when they use 4:3 content.

Watching in HD on WDIV via Comcast in Detroit. Through the first commercial about 14 minutes in there was ~3:50 of widescreen video (not counting pillarbars) content.

HD on WRC in Washington DC.

In total there was about 8:15 of widescreen content (not counting pillarbars).

Soft image in DC on Comcast and DIRECTV. Meredith Vieira's filtered camera is sharper.
Swanni

Not fond of the curtain sidebars on the SD footage. HD looking good for me on WRC DC4 on Comcast Loudoun, VA.

HD here in Philly.

Studio shots look quite good, but the intro was very soft.

Any screen captures?

WYFF-DT in Greenville SC didn't flip the switch until after Williams had been talking for several seconds. I was about ready to turn my antenna towards Charlotte when they finally woke up.

The SD material also looked better than it usually did for me before, because previously, WYFF usually upconverted a SD feed instead of using a direct network feed. Maybe it was so they could show off their custom side panels that carry a WYFF logo. Tonight I got NBC's fancy animated side panels during the show and black bars during the commercials.

The CBS affiliate here in Washington DC does their local newscast in high-def and offers a sharper image, better color.

HD via comcast on Nashville, TN. (WSMV-DT)

And now, a Random Thought(TM):

Local OTA HD, weekdays:

5:00-7:00 WUSA news
7:00-10:00 Today Show

11:00-12:00 The View
12:00-12:30 WUSA news
12:30-1:30 The Young and the Restless

5:00-6:30 WUSA news
6:30-7:00 NBC News
7:00-7:30 Jeopardy
7:30-8:00 Wheel of Fortune
8:00-11:00 network primetime
11:00-11:35 WUSA news
11:35-12:35 Letterman
12:35-1:35 Conan

3:05-4:00 Leno

Viewed on WHDH-DT Boston via Dish Network. Looked good but not true HD until the entire newscast converts. HDNews on Dish Network is the way it should be done.

I watched a few minutes of the first program. I'm not impressed at how little HD content was there (just the in-studio content). I know that there's not a lot of HD news content out there, and that there will be more soon, at least from NBC, but come on. Nice new graphics.

And now, a Random Thought(TM):

Local OTA HD, weekdays:

5:00-7:00 WUSA news
7:00-10:00 Today Show

11:00-12:00 The View
12:00-12:30 WUSA news
12:30-1:30 The Young and the Restless

5:00-6:30 WUSA news
6:30-7:00 NBC News
7:00-7:30 Jeopardy
7:30-8:00 Wheel of Fortune
8:00-11:00 network primetime
11:00-11:35 WUSA news
11:35-12:35 Letterman
12:35-1:35 Conan

3:05-4:00 Leno
Just for uber-clarification, WUSA is the CBS affiliate in DC.

Anyway, I liked it. I thought the video was pretty sharp, especially when he was sitting at the desk. He gave a shout out to HD at the end, calling it "not as big as color, but still significant" I was using WRC-DT and DirecTV on a 1080p Aquos.

It would really help if they would get the graphics used in the field reports in HD. (like the heart diagrams, stats, etc.)

Maybe its just me, but I thought that Brian Williams looked as though they are using a filter on him. When they went to Dr. Nancy Snyderman (sp?) she looked much sharper. Too bad that they weren't both facing the camera at the same time. If I'm right, kudos to her for not being overly vain.

Denver Comcast, KUSA.

Hmm...no caps? Iceman where are you... :)

I'll try to get a few up when it airs for the west. I'm interested in what the "wings" (I hate that) look like.

HD on WMGT in Macon OTA.

The studio shots looked good via Comcast, WILX, Lansing, MI

Only watched 5 mins or so...

I'd rather see a Ford Explorer blow up in HD - Bring on Dateline HD. ;)

I'd rather see a Ford Explorer blow up in HD - Bring on Dateline HD. ;)

I always thought that model should have been called the Ford Exploder.

Watched on Comcast South Jersey, and agree it's a small step. They really need to get more HD into the field.

Oddly, while the local NBC news was in sync, the network feed was a few frames behind the audio. NBC is the only station where I have sync problems.

After watching 3 hours of 'Planet Earth' last night on Discovery HD, tonight's NBC HD Newscast
was kind of a letdown. Saw it OTA on Miami's WTVJ, an NBC O&O, which still has local news in
SD with ugly side bars on the HD channel.

Walt

I watched a few minutes of the first program. I'm not impressed at how little HD content was there (just the in-studio content). I know that there's not a lot of HD news content out there, and that there will be more soon, at least from NBC,

You admit there isn't much HD to run so what do you run if you don't have the HD to put in the newscast? Stop doing HD even in the studio?

After some uncertainty about feeds here in GMT-7 Arizona,

HD on KPNX in Phoenix

You admit there isn't much HD to run so what do you run if you don't have the HD to put in the newscast? Stop doing HD even in the studio?No, don't even start HD in the first place (;) ;), ABC and CBS). Any broadcaster willing to do HD in the studio should start filming in as much HD as possible from day one, heck, before day one, for its field reports.

I hope that NBC starts using HD cameras for its field reports before long. That's the one big thing that NBC missed for its debut. No, you can't control outside sources, but you sure can give some effort into providing HD for your own material.

I thought it looked ok here in Boston didn't really watch a whole lot of it. I watched OTA and the problem here is we have 2 sub channels so it really takes away from the wow factor.

No, don't even start HD in the first place (;) ;), ABC and CBS). Any broadcaster willing to do HD in the studio should start filming in as much HD as possible from day one, heck, before day one, for its field reports.

I hope that NBC starts using HD cameras for its field reports before long. That's the one big thing that NBC missed for its debut. No, you can't control outside sources, but you sure can give some effort into providing HD for your own material.

I guess you missed the info that the White House camera is in HD and later in the year NBC field teams will start shooting in HD. Of course material that comes in from the affiliates will continue to be in SD for many of them for years to come. You will not see a 100% HD newscast from any news organization, broadcast or cable for many, many, many years, if ever, because they get material from far too many sources world wide (organized groups and freelance stringers) and many of them are not even thinking HD, much less 16:9. Short term you are asking for the impossible.

THere was no question that Brian Williams was getting the filter treatment. Hos face was much softer than Dr. Snyderman. On the shot where they were both in the picture together, he was softer looking than she was. My wife laughed at that one. How vain is he?

How vain is he?

No more than the locals. When WRAL went HD news in 2001, the anchors complained and they softened the studio cameras up in short order.

Viewing the many side pillars, some were colored in a way that blended with the motion video color, helping to make them 'invisible'--at least 8' from my 64" RPTV screen. So, hope NBC engineers can enlist something similar to Philips' plasma-screen ambient lighting that changes colors surrounding plasmas to match scene colors. -- John

helping to make them 'invisible'

More like distracting, with those moving graphics. I found myself looking at the side pillars much of the time. Maybe that is their plan, to distract us from all the SD.

WYFF-DT in Greenville SC didn't flip the switch until after Williams had been talking for several seconds. I was about ready to turn my antenna towards Charlotte when they finally woke up.

The SD material also looked better than it usually did for me before, because previously, WYFF usually upconverted a SD feed instead of using a direct network feed. Maybe it was so they could show off their custom side panels that carry a WYFF logo. Tonight I got NBC's fancy animated side panels during the show and black bars during the commercials.


Your lucky. It took 15 min. before they woke up in Palm Springs< Ca. :(

It reminded me of the waste that ESPNHD was when it began. Studio shows in HD with all SD clips etc. Its going to take much more of an investment to bring us HD news.

I think NBC took a good first step to get more HD into the living room.

However, am I the only one who thinks the wavy CGI background was very distracting?

KNSD San Diego had it HD (I watch via TWC). They better have it in HD - it's an "O & O' station!!

I'm glad to see it, and the comparison Brian Williams made to the switch to color is the perfect analogy for most of the current audience, planting a seed again that they want/need an HD setup. It's one more step along the way to HD being the norm.

The studio shots looked good via Comcast, WILX, Lansing, MI

Only watched 5 mins or so...


Same here, but i watched the whole thing, i use to watch CBS nightly news but i just cannot watch her, then switched to ABC, but on Monday night (yesterday) i was flipping the channels and found that NBC was in HD!!! Amazing.

It looks good OTA and via Comcast, now i just have to wait till CNN goes HD.

I guess you missed the info that the White House camera is in HD and later in the year NBC field teams will start shooting in HD. ... You will not see a 100% HD newscast from any news organization, broadcast or cable for many, many, many years, if ever, because they get material from far too many sources world wide (organized groups and freelance stringers) and many of them are not even thinking HD, much less 16:9. Short term you are asking for the impossible.I'm not asking for 100% HD news from the start. What I'm asking for is 100% HD content provided from NBC's national newsgathering team from the start. If a network wants to do HD national news, their national, not necessarily local, reporting team should go full bore toward providing top-notch HD coverage of whatever they cover.

I have heard in the past of the two developments you mentioned, and I'm glad of it.
THere was no question that Brian Williams was getting the filter treatment. Hos face was much softer than Dr. Snyderman. On the shot where they were both in the picture together, he was softer looking than she was. My wife laughed at that one. How vain is he?I remember an episode of "30 Rock" where Alec Baldwin went with a page into Brian William's office for its "daily" cleaning. It was hopelessly dirty, (I believe) filled with bottles of liquor and womens' lingerie, and one of the two was cleaning off a message on the wall, which, at the time, said "Kat** Cou*** Suc**". :D Of course it should have been all in fun, but maybe they were showing his true colors. ;) :cool:

I'm not asking for 100% HD news from the start. What I'm asking for is 100% HD content provided from NBC's national newsgathering team from the start. If a network wants to do HD national news, their national, not necessarily local, reporting team should go full bore toward providing top-notch HD coverage of whatever they cover.
Should the networks have held off doing sports in HD also because they were not able to do Super Slow Mo replay or RF cameras in HD until recently at reasonable coasts. Those were in house productions for the networks, what excuse do the networks have for doing the the hybrid sports productions?

These were baby steps that need to be taken before the whole NBC produced stuff can be in HD on the news.

THere was no question that Brian Williams was getting the filter treatment. Hos face was much softer than Dr. Snyderman. On the shot where they were both in the picture together, he was softer looking than she was. My wife laughed at that one. How vain is he?
Yes. Only the camera on Nancy looked as it should. Anything on Brian was soft as room temperature butter.

http://img77.imageshack.us/img77/4276/kingdtmar26vcr001ag5.th.jpg (http://img77.imageshack.us/my.php?image=kingdtmar26vcr001ag5.jpg)http://img109.imageshack.us/img109/6569/kingdtmar26vcr002ob5.th.jpg (http://img109.imageshack.us/my.php?image=kingdtmar26vcr002ob5.jpg)http://img109.imageshack.us/img109/5192/kingdtmar26vcr007ck2.th.jpg (http://img109.imageshack.us/my.php?image=kingdtmar26vcr007ck2.jpg)

Nevertheless, even with 90% sidebars, it is great to see NBC making the step forward. Everything looked polished and the dynamic sidebars were better than I expected. Just get rid of the unnecessary soft filters and crank up the HD content!

BTW, in case you didn't see it, they spent 1 minute at the end of the broadcast to mention being in HD. Brian mentioned that we can now see "every last detail" except on him of course. ;)
KING-DT, OTA Seattle. ~15mb/s

edit:
http://img109.imageshack.us/img109/3853/kingdtmar26003jr5.th.jpg (http://img109.imageshack.us/my.php?image=kingdtmar26003jr5.jpg)

http://img107.imageshack.us/img107/1127/kingdtmar26005oa0.th.jpg (http://img107.imageshack.us/my.php?image=kingdtmar26005oa0.jpg)

http://img107.imageshack.us/img107/831/kingdtmar26015rm5.th.jpg (http://img107.imageshack.us/my.php?image=kingdtmar26015rm5.jpg)

I liked the comparison at the end where they compared going to color in the 60's with going to HD now.

Rick R

Should the networks have held off doing sports in HD also because they were not able to do Super Slow Mo replay or RF cameras in HD until recently at reasonable coasts. Those were in house productions for the networks, what excuse do the networks have for doing the the hybrid sports productions?Those kinds of things take very little time of the overall broadcast, maybe ten minutes of the multi-hour broadcast, tops. The lack of HD field material during NN-HD meant that, excluding commercials, over two-thirds of the broadcast was essentially SD. They could have easily cut that down to half, or even less, if their national reporting team used HD cameras for that night's stories.

As for hybrid productions, like golf: Until this year, there was an excuse because there was no known way to wirelessly transmit a live HD signal, and yet there was a desire to present as much as possible in HD. Now, however, CBS has hired a team who has figured out a way to send HD signals wirelessly. NBC has hired a team who doesn't use HD wireless cams. These days, no broadcaster has an excuse to have an HD/SD hybrid game solely due to the lack of general-purpose wireless HD cameras.
These were baby steps that need to be taken before the whole NBC produced stuff can be in HD on the news.In the past months, TBN has been filming some shows in HD, even though no TBN-HD channel exists yet. They'll be more prepared for their HD launch than NBC was for its first Nightly News HD broadcast. That's what I call being proactive.

I'd rather see a Ford Explorer blow up in HD - Bring on Dateline HD. ;)

Child molestors in HD. Ewwwwwwww!!!!!!!! :eek:

Yes. Only the camera on Nancy looked as it should. Anything on Brian was soft as room temperature butter.


Well, this isn't a real surprise. HD camera shot clauses are already making their way into contracts for onscreen talent. After all, just look at The View.

Still, some people choose not to do this. Al Roker's camera on Today is filter free. And in Nashville where WTVF (CBS) went HD last month, veteran anchor Chris Clark who is over 70 and has been in the chair for 40+ years has put his unfiltered mug on HD for all to see. For the guy who put Oprah on TV for the first time and gave an intern job to the new Miss USA, it's just who he is.

Those kinds of things take very little time of the overall broadcast, maybe ten minutes of the multi-hour broadcast, tops. The lack of HD field material during NN-HD meant that, excluding commercials, over two-thirds of the broadcast was essentially SD. They could have easily cut that down to half, or even less, if their national reporting team used HD cameras for that night's stories.
In the past months,
To be fair over a 1/3, about 37% of program material, of the newscast last night was widescreen video, not including pillar bars. I think that this was a good first step and it has already been announced that NBC has plans to add more HD content to the newscast over the next year. Asking for it all or most of it to be there on day one, at this stage, is a bit much.

The first day Sportscenter went HD, the highlights of the Stanley Cup Finals from that night were not in HD at first, they were in HD in later editions of the show. Just as ESPN has added more HD to Sportscenter, so will NBC to Nightly News.


How much of the TBN stuff is shot and edited on a short turn around time in the field?

How much of the TBN stuff is shot and edited on a short turn around time in the field?I honestly don't know, but it's probably zero, especially for the HD stuff. :rolleyes: Still, NBC is a highly professional company, so their field crews should be able to properly learn and do what's needed for HD, even before day one.
Child molestors in HD. Ewwwwwwww!!!!!!!! :eek:I hear that Dateline's now moving on to Internet-based identity theives. 0010010110101010000111101!!!!!1

Still, NBC is a highly professional company, so their field crews should be able to properly learn and do what's needed for HD, even before day one.

Then in your eyes they are not as "professional" since they haven't deployed the HD gear. Maybe you need to go and show them how to do it then since they are obviously incapable of doing it themselves in your own opinion.

Slightly less Widescreen video tonight with only 8 minutes tonight compared to 8:15 yesterday.

I honestly don't know, but it's probably zero, especially for the HD stuff. :rolleyes: Still, NBC is a highly professional company, so their field crews should be able to properly learn and do what's needed for HD, even before day one.

Your assuming that they have HD gear to turnaround with. Do you honestly think it is simply training that keeps them from doing HD field shots?

The studio shot was nice, but this show really suffers with all the actual reports in SD. Had they used 480p widescreen cameras, it would be a nice-looking interim step. I would have expected at least the taped studio interviews to at least be HD.


Suspect you mean 480i cameras. There is continuing belief that there are 480p cameras out there for widespread use - because Fox broadcast in 480p. What Fox broadcast was 480i de-interlaced to 480p, shot on 480i cameras... They didn't shoot on 480p cameras... (They trialled a 480p LDK studio model in the very early days - but I don't think it stayed) There is no DVCam or DVCPro standard def recording format for 480/60p material, nor is there a way of feeding this material using standard links gear.

There ARE a few 480/24p and 480/30p camcorders just appearing for cheap "film making" - and you can shoot some HD cameras in 480/60p mode (the LDK6000
mk II for example)

However - almost all widescreen SD material shot on standard 16:9 / 4:3 camcorders - such as the Sony DVCam, Beta SX and XDCam SD models, and Panasonic, JVC and Ikegami DVCPro models are 480/60i devices.

(Over here in the UK we are nearly universally 576/50i 16:9 for News on the BBC - including local crews in the main, Channel Four, Five and Sky - with just ITV News in 4:3 still. However everyone shoots on Beta SX, XDCam or DVCam/DVCPro and almost everyone has 4:3 / 16:9 switchable cameras. No HD News in the UK apart from Al Jazeera's London operation - which is only HD in studio, and XDCam SD in the field I believe)

I suspect, pragmatically, that if a field report is edited in the field, where aspect ratio conversion facilities may not be available, shooting the new elements of the segment in 16:9 SD but having to edit in 4:3 SD archive, agency or otherwise sourced video means shooting and editing everything in 4:3 is the safest way of keeping the pictures the right shape.

If NBC are adding coloured sidebars to 4:3 SD material - then this is only really appliable in a high-end NLE or to a package cut entirely 4:3. If you have a mix of 4:3 SD and 16:9 SD (or HD) in a single package, then constantly flipping from pillarboxed to non-pillarboxed material may be very distracting?

This is absolutely the WORST excuse for live HD I have ever seen. The in-studio shots are so poor they look like upconverted SD. The "wings" suck. And don't tell me it's my local station because their live HD hockey and other events look great. I'm OTA in the Quad-Cities.

On Monday night, the in-studio stuff looked fine, but tonight sure looked like upconverted SD to me -- even the sidepanels looked upconverted. Wonder what happened?

The Washington, D.C. bureau was in widescreen, but in the first shot it was pillarboxed; other than that, only the 30 Rock studio is HD. There were some commercials in HD this time. There seems to also be aerial shots in HD which mostly is from WNBC's Chopper4HD.

Odd, I didn't catch it last night, but it definitely looked better than an SD upconvert tonight.

HD from the Washington newsroom and the White House.

Thanks for those screenshots on the last page, how did the host get away with so much blur? I am sure he has been on Today before but we only get a 4:3 feed so I can't know if that was in HD. Did they blur him when he is on that show too?

Only 68 posts after 2 days. Very lackluster performance if number of posts are any indications - especially as BSwammi had fed the trades of the mass of HD Viewers that would flock to NBC day one to see this.

Only 68 posts after 2 days. Very lackluster performance if number of posts are any indications - especially as BSwammi had fed the trades of the mass of HD Viewers that would flock to NBC day one to see this.

As has been pointed out before, HD doesn't make the program and non HD Charlie Gibson has been kicking NBC News' butt for the last month or so, pre NBC HD. Why should that change just because Brian Williams isn't as blurry as before?

I personally think NBC has a pretty good overall looking product (content not in included in this assessment). That is based on more than just the PQ but graphics and the use of them I think are just as important as the lines of resolution. It will be interesting to see what the other networks finally come up with when they go HD.

Thank you for these snapshots DrCrawn. Would you have captures of SD content with sidebars ?

thx a lot

benjamin

Personally I am happy with it. Yes there is room for improvement but they are trying and putting forth an effort.

Child molestors in HD. Ewwwwwwww!!!!!!!! :eek:
I dont know, some of those female teachers that are molesting their students are kinda hot...

I remember an episode of "30 Rock" where Alec Baldwin went with a page into Brian William's office for its "daily" cleaning. It was hopelessly dirty, (I believe) filled with bottles of liquor and womens' lingerie, and one of the two was cleaning off a message on the wall, which, at the time, said "Kat** Cou*** Suc**". :D Of course it should have been all in fun, but maybe they were showing his true colors. ;) :cool:

Got a link to the clip? (Youtube?)

HD from the Washington newsroom and the White House.
And interestingly, the same feed is SD in the morning on the Today show. :confused:

As has been pointed out before, HD doesn't make the program .

You and I have always known that.


Why should that change just because Brian Williams isn't as blurry as before?



You didn't read BSwanni? :rolleyes:


Reader Poll: NBC Nightly News to Draw Big HD Audience
Nearly 80 percent of TVPredictions.com readers say they will tune in for Brian Williams' high-def debut.
By Phillip Swann

Washington, D.C. (March 20, 2007) -- The NBC Nightly News With Brian Williams will begin broadcasting in High-Definition on March 26. And it appears that a large number of high-def owners will be tuning in.

So, reporting from Washington tonight was HD.

I'm starting to see the blurring people are talking about.

---
What's the deal with the NYC bureau being SD? WNBC is HD, and the NN set is HD.

You and I have always known that.




You didn't read BSwanni? :rolleyes:


Reader Poll: NBC Nightly News to Draw Big HD Audience
Nearly 80 percent of TVPredictions.com readers say they will tune in for Brian Williams' high-def debut.
By Phillip Swann

Washington, D.C. (March 20, 2007) -- The NBC Nightly News With Brian Williams will begin broadcasting in High-Definition on March 26. And it appears that a large number of high-def owners will be tuning in.

7 out of 9 ~ 80%

And interestingly, the same feed is SD in the morning on the Today show. :confused:
I don't understand why those shots aren't in HD on Today. AIUI, they use the same control room as NN, and those are presumably the same cameras, etc. at that location all day long.

I don't understand why those shots aren't in HD on Today. AIUI, they use the same control room as NN, and those are presumably the same cameras, etc. at that location all day long.

Wouldn't assume that to be the case - often cameras travel with operators. If a different operator does a live shot in the morning to the live shot in the evening, then the morning operator may have SD kit, the evening operator may have HD kit.

This is especially the case if the live point is an "inject" rather than using a live microwave or SNG truck - as the former is usually just a "turn up and plug in" operation, with the crew just having a few extra IFB (Clean Feed in British English) facilities - easily carried in a small rucksack. Depends whether Network live shots are done by the same crews who also shoot location recordings or are done separately.

The nearest equivalent to this in the UK is our Downing Street live shot location. Here a crew is sent from the Westminster bureau as required - and often only turns up a few minutes before they are needed for the 10pm News (the BBC equivalent of NBC NN or ABC WNT). They may not be using the same kit as, and will almost certainly be a different crew to, the live from the same location at 6am on the same day into Breakfast (the BBC GMA/Today equivalent).

Newsroom lives are different - I'd expect the same gear to be used all day - though some larger bureaux have more than one facility, and it may be that the Today live shots are from a "self op" studio, with the evening lives coming from a slightly better crewed operation? (Or it could be a staffing or lines issue between the two operations)

Then in your eyes they are not as "professional" since they haven't deployed the HD gear. Maybe you need to go and show them how to do it then since they are obviously incapable of doing it themselves in your own opinion.In my own opinion? You're putting words in my mouth -- of course I believe that they could do HD right, it's just that for starters, they need the HD equipment to do it right. I don't find the reporters as being less professional here, but the execs. See below.
Your assuming that they have HD gear to turnaround with. Do you honestly think it is simply training that keeps them from doing HD field shots?Of course not. I never categorically claimed that they weren't reporting in HD solely because of lack of training. NBC execs should have allocated enough money to provide HD cameras to all their reporters in a timely fashion, so that all reports from day one would have been in HD.

All that I've been basically saying is that if a network (in this case, NBC) is willing to go HD for a news and/or entertainment program, that they should go in with as much HD coverage from the first day as they possibly can. NBC didn't do that with NN-HD. Let that be a lesson to ABC and CBS, and even syndicated shows that have field reporting on frequent occasion, like "Oprah".

Newsroom lives are different - I'd expect the same gear to be used all day - though some larger bureaux have more than one facility, and it may be that the Today live shots are from a "self op" studio, with the evening lives coming from a slightly better crewed operation? (Or it could be a staffing or lines issue between the two operations)
The shot being talked about was a newsroom shot.

The shot being talked about was a newsroom shot.Actually I was originally referring to the live shot from the White House lawn, but seeing Tim Russert in SD on Today this morning really perplexed me. He was seated at the same Washington Bureau desk from which Brian Williams did the Nightly News in HD on Tuesday.

Actually I was originally referring to the live shot from the White House lawn, but seeing Tim Russert in SD on Today this morning really perplexed me. He was seated at the same Washington Bureau desk from which Brian Williams did the Nightly News in HD on Tuesday.

Would other affiliates also be using the Washington newsroom position for their local news shows during Today i.e. is it a bookable position? If so it may be it runs in SD?

Or it maybe that a self-op vs fully-crewed issue is at play somewhere in the chain.

The live shot from the lawn I think I explained earlier - I wouldn't expect a permanent camera to be situated there, rather a crew turn up for the live shot, do it and then de-rig again? (Or that is how Downing Street and similar live shots in the UK are done - particularly from fibre or co-ax inject points)

If NBC are adding coloured sidebars to 4:3 SD material - then this is only really appliable in a high-end NLE or to a package cut entirely 4:3. If you have a mix of 4:3 SD and 16:9 SD (or HD) in a single package, then constantly flipping from pillarboxed to non-pillarboxed material may be very distracting?
Only watched parts of a few broadcasts, but don't find the added pillars to 4:3 shots that bad. But then I'm used to watching 4X3 SD with gray side pillars 8' from my 64" 16X9 CRT RPTV screen--a size/distance that makes it easy to focus on the screen center and nearly 'block out' pillars. NBC makes the mistake, IMO, of putting moving lines within the pillars, drawing attention to them. As I mentioned elsewhere, they'd do better using a Philips-plasma-type technique, coloring the pillars electronically to constantly blend with 4X3 image colors. They're already 'cheating' with graphics, so they might as well minimize the visual impact. -- John

Only watched parts of a few broadcasts, but don't find the added pillars to 4:3 shots that bad. But then I'm used to watching 4X3 SD with gray side pillars 8' from my 64" 16X9 CRT RPTV screen--a size/distance that makes it easy to focus on the screen center and nearly 'block out' pillars. NBC makes the mistake, IMO, of putting moving lines within the pillars, drawing attention to them. As I mentioned elsewhere, they'd do better using a Philips-plasma-type technique, coloring the pillars electronically to constantly blend with 4X3 image colors. They're already 'cheating' with graphics, so they might as well minimize the visual impact. -- John

System that worked very well with 14:9 pillarbox bars was to fill the edges with a blurred and zoom version of the edges of the central portion, kind of a "bathroom glass" effect. Quite subtle and not that distracting - though may not work as well in 12P16 as 14P16.

Only watched parts of a few broadcasts, but don't find the added pillars to 4:3 shots that bad. But then I'm used to watching 4X3 SD with gray side pillars 8' from my 64" 16X9 CRT RPTV screen--a size/distance that makes it easy to focus on the screen center and nearly 'block out' pillars. NBC makes the mistake, IMO, of putting moving lines within the pillars, drawing attention to them. As I mentioned elsewhere, they'd do better using a Philips-plasma-type technique, coloring the pillars electronically to constantly blend with 4X3 image colors. They're already 'cheating' with graphics, so they might as well minimize the visual impact. -- John

If they have info in them they are not pillars.

It's 4:3 with wings.

Having viewed extensive newscasts with movement in the wings and static wings, I can clearly say that movement is better as it keeps your eyes focused on a 16:9 center of vision.

When you make the wings static, your field of vision collapses from 16:9 to 4:3 and needs to readjust when true 16:9 content returns to the screen.

With that said, KABC recently took the movement out of their wings. It clearly is harder to keep the proper field of vision even though their wings does have info in it - but as there is no movement, your eyes center on the 4:3 content.

It's much like the network bug - when after a while you begin to ignore it.

Without the movement in the wings, your eyes ignore and drop down to a 4:3 center of vision - and then must move out for the 16:9 shots.

System that worked very well with 14:9 pillarbox bars was to fill the edges with a blurred and zoom version of the edges of the central portion, kind of a "bathroom glass" effect. Quite subtle and not that distracting - though may not work as well in 12P16 as 14P16.

I actually find those blurred pillar bars to be very distracting and annoying. I don't mind the Nightly News bars.

I actually find those blurred pillar bars to be very distracting and annoying. I don't mind the Nightly News bars.

I suspect they were far less annoying in 14:9 - because when overscan on 4:3 displays is taken into account the pillarbox bar is only a couple of percent in from each side of the screen on many TVs.

I'm not convinced it would work as well for 4:3 pillarboxing - which is considerably rarer in the UK - apart from sports coverage, where black bars are always used.

(As I mentioned elsewhere - News uses 14:9 pillarboxing for 4:3 archive and agency material - with black bars.)

I can understand US news operations moving to HD wanting to keep a strict "all 4:3" or "all 16:9" mix initially, as managing edits with mixed aspect ratio sources can be quite tricky, and will slow down a picture editor - at least when they are new. (The BBC model was to convert all sources to 16:9 as early in the chain as possible - so incoming outside sources are converted to 14:9 pillarbox before they are available to studios and record areas - so a lot of 4:3 material arrives in edit suites already converted, meaning the only conversion the editor has to worry about is physical tapes that arrive in their area - which these days is library and a TINY amount of 4:3 location shooting - usually pooled with a 4:3 broadcaster - like ITV News)

You and I have always known that.




You didn't read BSwanni? :rolleyes:


Reader Poll: NBC Nightly News to Draw Big HD Audience
Nearly 80 percent of TVPredictions.com readers say they will tune in for Brian Williams' high-def debut.
By Phillip Swann

Washington, D.C. (March 20, 2007) -- The NBC Nightly News With Brian Williams will begin broadcasting in High-Definition on March 26. And it appears that a large number of high-def owners will be tuning in.

I would tune it in once in awhile if I could. And I'm one of those ranting and whining for years on this board for HD news. But sadly there is no available Gainesville NBC HD channel so the only NBC programs I watch are usually just the ones I can download somewhere. :(

But I guess it's still one more step in the right direction.

- Tom

A few years back NBC-HD--locally at least--converted much of its 4X3 1080i-upconverted material to ~14X9, optically zooming and losing some of the top and bottom of images. Preferred this on my 16X9 screen for sports, etc., although not for dramas since it tinkered too much with director's intent. IMO, this zooming might aid delivery of 4X3 segments on NBC's HD news, rather than color-mismatched side pillars--especially side pillars with moving graphics, since motion attracts attention; (historically, say, from about the time we emerged from the oceans ;-) ). -- John

So, reporting from Washington tonight was HD.

I'm starting to see the blurring people are talking about.

---
What's the deal with the NYC bureau being SD? WNBC is HD, and the NN set is HD.
wnbc field gear is 480p stretched to 16X9. not real HD.
they're still in investigative stage to see which manufacturer [sony, panasonic etc.] to go with.
their live shots via microwave and/or satellite also stretched 480p.
no microwave frequencies now in existence for local newsgathering can handle HD in the US.
nbc news ny field gear also 480p ... they will be getting 1080i gear soon.
as said in many other threads, much more than a studio has to be upgraded to 1080i to get the full experience. takes money and time.

wnbc field gear is 480p stretched to 16X9. not real HD.
they're still in investigative stage to see which manufacturer [sony, panasonic etc.] to go with.
their live shots via microwave and/or satellite also stretched 480p.
no microwave frequencies now in existence for local newsgathering can handle HD in the US.
nbc news ny field gear also 480p ... they will be getting 1080i gear soon.
as said in many other threads, much more than a studio has to be upgraded to 1080i to get the full experience. takes money and time.

Unless there is a VERY oddball set-up particular to the stations you are talking about - I'd be VERY surprised if they were shooting 480p - and I'd love to know what gear they were using if they are, as I know of no commercial ENG gear running in 480/60p in the marketplace currently...

I think you'll find that the field gear is NOT 480p but 480i - surely.

You can't buy any 480/60p cameras - certainly Sony, Thomson, Panasonic and Ikegami models are 480/60i at SD. There is no mainstream production infrastructure for handling 480/60p video signals - and the reason 1080i and 720p aren't used for field reports is that the infrastructure for live shots and field recording and feeding is still based on 480/60i (and in some cases analogue NTSC not 480/60i component) gear.

480/60p signals can't be carried via NTSC composite or SDI digital component infrastructure - as they have twice the line rate of 480/60i signals. Similarly they can't be recorded on DV 25 gear (i.e. DVCam, DVCPro25, MiniDV), Beta SX/SP gear, or even DigiBeta - these formats are 480/60i only...

(Some SD camcorders will record 480/24p or 480/30p encapsulated in a 480/60i stream - but this is the realm of DV/HDV recording - not live production)

All of the 480/60i infrastructure can carry 16:9 480/60i just as easily as 4:3 480/60i - as long as the cameras are 4:3/16:9 switchable - which most decent modern ENG camcorders are - and you have some aspect ratio conversion if you need to mix ratios.

Electronically a 480/60i 4:3 and 16:9 signal are identical - and the 16:9 version is often described as "anamorphic" - though I don't agree that this is a good description as an electronic signal, unlike an optical film frame, has no inherent "shape" to "anamorph". The only difference between 4:3 and 16:9 is the picture width or angle that the active line period contains video information for.

Your mention of microwave links makes me think you are talking about 480i gear - certainly if you are talking about analogue microwave gear. (Though are there no digital microwave solutions for HD in the US that use similar bandwiths to analogue SD circuits - there are in the UK AIUI, though fibre and satellite are probably more popular for HD backhaul. In the UK ENG and general production microwave circuits are interchangeable in the analogue domain - with the same circuits and receive points often used for both in the past - though little non-news stuff is analogue these days)

The Philips (now Thomson) LDK 6000 production camera did have the option of 480p output along 480i, 720p, 1080i etc. but this is a full HD camera used for multicamera OB production not live shots. There was also an experimental LDK 480p studio camera used by Fox for experiments in 480p production - but HD production overtook this.

For some reason - probably resulting from Fox's decision to broadcast 480i de-interlaced to 480p prior to their move to 720p - there is a widespread myth in the US that 16:9 480 line TV is "480p" - when it isn't, it is 16:9 480i... Even when Fox broadcast in 480/60p - this was just a straight de-interlace from the 16:9 480i network signal, mixed with the local 480i (usually 4:3) signal. Fox weren't producing or distributing in 480p AIUI...

Thought I'd read that many sources of HD ENG (electronic news gathering) were planning to use or using(?) Sony's newest portable HD hardware that records on an optical disc rather than tape/hard drive. Microwaving compressed HD from choppers etc. back to station/network sites has been available for some time. -- John

There is common misconception among the average viewer (and many AVS readers) that anything 4:3 has to be SD and anything 16:9 has to be HD - as can be seen almost daily - the last time in a post about the Sopranos on A&E several hours ago.

Even 5w30 says above that WNBC "stretches" their 480p to 16:9, which is not the case as TV stations have usually not purchased any cameras since 2004 that could not do true 16:9, albeit at 480.

Thus, as you are aware, one has to be careful believing the well intentioned mis-information.

Unless there is a VERY oddball set-up particular to the stations you are talking about - I'd be VERY surprised if they were shooting 480p - and I'd love to know what gear they were using if they are, as I know of no commercial ENG gear running in 480/60p in the marketplace currently...

I think you'll find that the field gear is NOT 480p but 480i - surely.

You can't buy any 480/60p cameras - certainly Sony, Thomson, Panasonic and Ikegami models are 480/60i at SD. There is no mainstream production infrastructure for handling 480/60p video signals - and the reason 1080i and 720p aren't used for field reports is that the infrastructure for live shots and field recording and feeding is still based on 480/60i (and in some cases analogue NTSC not 480/60i component) gear.

480/60p signals can't be carried via NTSC composite or SDI digital component infrastructure - as they have twice the line rate of 480/60i signals. Similarly they can't be recorded on DV 25 gear (i.e. DVCam, DVCPro25, MiniDV), Beta SX/SP gear, or even DigiBeta - these formats are 480/60i only...

(Some SD camcorders will record 480/24p or 480/30p encapsulated in a 480/60i stream - but this is the realm of DV/HDV recording - not live production)

All of the 480/60i infrastructure can carry 16:9 480/60i just as easily as 4:3 480/60i - as long as the cameras are 4:3/16:9 switchable - which most decent modern ENG camcorders are - and you have some aspect ratio conversion if you need to mix ratios.

Electronically a 480/60i 4:3 and 16:9 signal are identical - and the 16:9 version is often described as "anamorphic" - though I don't agree that this is a good description as an electronic signal, unlike an optical film frame, has no inherent "shape" to "anamorph". The only difference between 4:3 and 16:9 is the picture width or angle that the active line period contains video information for.

Your mention of microwave links makes me think you are talking about 480i gear - certainly if you are talking about analogue microwave gear. (Though are there no digital microwave solutions for HD in the US that use similar bandwiths to analogue SD circuits - there are in the UK AIUI, though fibre and satellite are probably more popular for HD backhaul. In the UK ENG and general production microwave circuits are interchangeable in the analogue domain - with the same circuits and receive points often used for both in the past - though little non-news stuff is analogue these days)

The Philips (now Thomson) LDK 6000 production camera did have the option of 480p output along 480i, 720p, 1080i etc. but this is a full HD camera used for multicamera OB production not live shots. There was also an experimental LDK 480p studio camera used by Fox for experiments in 480p production - but HD production overtook this.

For some reason - probably resulting from Fox's decision to broadcast 480i de-interlaced to 480p prior to their move to 720p - there is a widespread myth in the US that 16:9 480 line TV is "480p" - when it isn't, it is 16:9 480i... Even when Fox broadcast in 480/60p - this was just a straight de-interlace from the 16:9 480i network signal, mixed with the local 480i (usually 4:3) signal. Fox weren't producing or distributing in 480p AIUI...

asked a ops person at wnbc .. the field cameras are indeed 480i.
if they buy that system they will upgrade to 1080i.

they do stretch that signal to fill my hd screen. it's grainy and a bit soft in comparison with the 1080i studio cameras.

Thought I'd read that many sources of HD ENG (electronic news gathering) were planning to use or using(?) Sony's newest portable HD hardware that records on an optical disc rather than tape/hard drive. Microwaving compressed HD from choppers etc. back to station/network sites has been available for some time. -- John

Not sure how much of this is "vapourware". Sony were selling their BetaSX format as capable of feeding at twice real-time (18Mbs played at 36Mbs?) via data circuits. Not sure I ever heard of anyone actually doing it.

Similarly, both Beta SX and DV formats were sold as feeding into NLEs at faster than real time. Again I'm not sure how many machines that actually did this were ever delivered (though Sony did market a hybrid BetaSX + Hard Drive VTR/VDR - again I don't know who bought them - if anyone did)

I think that a lot of these products are more "concepts" than actually off-the-shelf products - though I'm happy to be proved wrong.

I think there is still a wish that production gear follows "open" standards - allowing different gear from different manufacturers to interconnect. Some of the data rather than video based standards can tie you into a proprietary single manufacturer solution - which many broadcasters are still wary of, especially when you work in an environment where you need to pool facilities or share material (which is not as uncommon as it sounds in News - well in the UK at least).

asked a ops person at wnbc .. the field cameras are indeed 480i.
if they buy that system they will upgrade to 1080i.


Yep - thought so. They are likely to be something like the DSR 500 series DVCams or similar I expect. If they were bought with some element of future-proofing in mind, it is likely they will have been 16:9/4:3 switchable.


they do stretch that signal to fill my hd screen. it's grainy and a bit soft in comparison with the 1080i studio cameras.

Are they stretching - i.e. taking a 4:3 480i signal and formatting it for a 16:9 screen - or just scaling i.e. taking a 16:9 480i signal and filling a 16:9 1080i signal with it. I wouldn't call the latter stretching, as it doesn't change the shape of picture elements - which would be called a stretch - just upconversion.

There is common misconception among the average viewer (and many AVS readers) that anything 4:3 has to be SD and anything 16:9 has to be HD - as can be seen almost daily - the last time in a post about the Sopranos on A&E several hours ago.

Even 5w30 says above that WNBC "stretches" their 480p to 16:9, which is not the case as TV stations have usually not purchased any cameras since 2004 that could not do true 16:9, albeit at 480.

Thus, as you are aware, one has to be careful believing the well intentioned mis-information.

Yep - I guess coming from this side of the pond - where most of our SD is 16:9 576/50i these days it is a non-issue for me - though the references to 480p are incredibly frequent and almost universally incorrect.

I suspect I think of aspect ratio and SD vs HD as entirely separate issues - given that I've been working in SD 16:9 since 1997.

they do stretch that signal to fill my hd screen. it's grainy and a bit soft in comparison with the 1080i studio cameras.

Again, they do not stretch it. The field cameras are native 16:9.

It's grainy and soft because its 480 and not 1080 - imagine that.

WNBC will use 4:3 with Wings for any non 16:9 camera shot.

Here's one article (http://xdcam.com.au/modules/news/article.php?storyid=218) from last year indicating WNBC-DT distributed 30 Sony XDCAMs (HD disc camcorders) for tryout. Don't know if they finally acquired them or not. Panasonic has introduced HD ENG camcorders with solid-state memories. -- John

Here's one article (http://xdcam.com.au/modules/news/article.php?storyid=218) from last year indicating WNBC-DT distributed 30 Sony XDCAMs (HD disc camcorders) for tryout. Don't know if they finally acquired them or not. Panasonic has introduced HD ENG camcorders with solid-state memories. -- John

Yep - there are :

XDCam from Sony

P2 from Panasonic - which is Flash based (though some camcorders also include a DV tape transport as well)

Infinity from Thomson/Philips/GrassValley - which can use either Iomega REV discs or other USB2 connected mass storage.

AIUI they are all available in HD and SD variants now.

The advantage of XDCam (and to a degree Infinity) is that the discs are low cost, so can be treated in the same way as tape, and rushes retained etc.

The P2 cards are much more expensive, and any material that is to be retained has to be archived to another digital storage medium. However editing from P2 is incredibly quick - and the interface cheap (no disc drive required unlike Infinity and XDcam)

The UK version of Scrapheap Challenge is moving to XD Cam, and the BBC have been running a project with Infinity and P2 models (P2 was used for BBC Sport PSC - Portable Single Camera - coverage of the Turin Winter Olympics)

I'm not sure how much work has been done on using these new formats to file material as data in their native format. Increasingly the BBC is now editing reports shot on DV on location on PC/Mac NLEs and FTPing them back as files, using broadband and satellite phone gear, rather than sending the material back as native data rushes or using an SNG / Microwave truck. They are also using similar broadband technology for simple, low-cost, live contributions - at much higher quality than the older satellite videophone systems - though of course this isn't HD - or even full quality SD...

Since the start of this year we are buying only HD P2 field cameras from Panasonic for all stations, but are running them in the SD mode (16:9) for now to conserve bandwidth over the old analog microwave paths. Once we get the new digital microwave equipment from Sprint, we should be able to transmit at a higher bitrate in digital.

Since the start of this year we are buying only HD P2 field cameras from Panasonic for all stations, but are running them in the SD mode (16:9) for now to conserve bandwidth over the old analog microwave paths. Once we get the new digital microwave equipment from Sprint, we should be able to transmit at a higher bitrate in digital.

How are you backhauling currently - composite analogue NTSC?

Are your future links likely to be HD-SDI in / Compressed MPEG2/4 out carried via Microwave, or do they have a data feed.

My gut feeling is the former - so that you can mix between sources (say two cameras?) live using an HD-SDI mixer?

What HD outputs do the P2 models have - and are you going to be using fibre or co-ax to link the cameras to the truck via HD-SDI?

(I hear some single camera only SNG trucks are using HDV camcorders and taking the Firewire TS output, converting it to ASI and firing this straight into their RF links gear, removing the need for MPEG2 encoders at HD levels. However this is only a solution for single camera feeds - as you can't mix sources at the Firewire level without decoding and recoding)

Presumably shooting 480i SD 16:9 also means the cards run longer! (AIUI P2 uses the DV codec family - so DV 25 for SD and DV 100 for HD - meaning HD takes 4 times as much Flash per second? Also the DV 100 codec is based around 960x720 and 1280x1080 at 60Hz, though for once us 50Hzers win with the codec rising to 1440x1080 at 50Hz!)

In the USA, Nextel (now Sprint) is paying to move TV ENG from 800mhz to new spectrum (2G and digital, so more efficient) with the new equipment....although Nextel was gung ho....since merged with Sprint they are dragging their feet. No one really cares to buy new equipment for the 800mhz band for HD as Sprint is only paying for SD equipment @ 2Ghz. Many stations are paying the difference to upgrade the 2G equipment to HD - but virtually no one would buy new 800mhz HD equipment that will be worthless in 12 months - especially as Sprint will only pay for SD replacement.

Most info can be answered from some of these stories:

http://www.tvtechnology.com/features/news/2006.01.25-n_signasys.shtml

http://www.broadcastingcable.com/article/CA6332386.html?display=Technology

http://www.benton.org/index.php?q=node/3420

As for the P2, many stations have gone the other way with Sony - including the Networks, as it emulates the old thinking of bringing the tape in and editting it at the studio. Considering the advances in technology, at some point you must think out of the box to the way its obviously going - and considering what can be accomplished now with editting in the field (and what will be available over the next several years) there is no reason no to do so.

Not sure how much of this is "vapourware". Sony were selling their BetaSX format as capable of feeding at twice real-time (18Mbs played at 36Mbs?) via data circuits. Not sure I ever heard of anyone actually doing it.

Similarly, both Beta SX and DV formats were sold as feeding into NLEs at faster than real time. Again I'm not sure how many machines that actually did this were ever delivered (though Sony did market a hybrid BetaSX + Hard Drive VTR/VDR - again I don't know who bought them - if anyone did)

I think that a lot of these products are more "concepts" than actually off-the-shelf products - though I'm happy to be proved wrong.There's an option for IMX decks to allow for 2x transfer over SDTI. The MSW2000 also has an option to playback SP, SX, and DigiBeta tapes and I'm pretty sure the 2x playback works for each format. I haven't seen a deck with that option board installed to play with, though. There's another option board to do MXF file transfers over ethernet that I've never seen used either.

I guess Sony was hoping for people to jump all over SDTI as an I/O interface, but firewire has pretty much won that battle. Avid Adrenaline BOBs have an SDTI port on them, but it isn't implemented. However, the Sony XPRI editor will take in native HDCAM over SDTI (or so I've read - another item I haven't seen in real life). That's the only editor I'm aware of that can ingest over SDTI.

Yep - there are :

XDCam from Sony

P2 from Panasonic - which is Flash based (though some camcorders also include a DV tape transport as well)

Infinity from Thomson/Philips/GrassValley - which can use either Iomega REV discs or other USB2 connected mass storage.You left out the Ikegami EditCam. It shoots Avid DNxHD 135 to what is basically a laptop hard drive.

I'm not sure what formats the Ikegami SD cameras shoot, but the HD cameras only shoot HD and the SD cameras only shoot SD. The GVG camera (if it ever actually ships) is HD/SD switchable.

In the USA, Nextel (now Sprint) is paying to move TV ENG from 800mhz to new spectrum (2G and digital, so more efficient) with the new equipment....although Nextel was gung ho....since merged with Sprint they are dragging their feet. No one really cares to buy new equipment for the 800mhz band for HD as Sprint is only paying for SD equipment @ 2Ghz. Many stations are paying the difference to upgrade the 2G equipment to HD - but virtually no one would buy new 800mhz HD equipment that will be worthless in 12 months - especially as Sprint will only pay for SD replacement.


Interesting - UHF links were only used really for short hop OB stuff (like cameras mounted on cars at horse racing events) - all of our News stuff has always been microwave. Don't think anyone in the UK uses 800MHz frequency circuits for this.

We have a similar situation brewing though - as our UHF analogue radio mics for broadcast and theatre use are in the current UHF TV band (interleaved with analogue TV spectrum). When a large chunk of this spectrum is sold off when analogue TV is switched off - there won't be space for UHF radio mics. Causing a big fuss in the UK - lots of parliamentary lobbying from the West End theatres - who can have 50+ Radio Mics in some productions.

There's an option for IMX decks to allow for 2x transfer over SDTI. The MSW2000 also has an option to playback SP, SX, and DigiBeta tapes and I'm pretty sure the 2x playback works for each format. I haven't seen a deck with that option board installed to play with, though. There's another option board to do MXF file transfers over ethernet that I've never seen used either.


Yep - I had heard about this - but like you, never seen it. I don't know anyone who saw the 2x SDTI replay options on Beta SX VTRs either.

I can believe tha 2x replay for IMX and SD - but I'd be VERY interested to see 2x replay on SP and Digi - that must be some head assembly if it can cope with two different tape speeds and scan correctly both helically.


I guess Sony was hoping for people to jump all over SDTI as an I/O interface, but firewire has pretty much won that battle.


SDI still pretty much rules as the SD ingest format over here - though Firewire for DV25 stuff is quite common.

HD seems to still be HD-SDI.


Avid Adrenaline BOBs have an SDTI port on them, but it isn't implemented. However, the Sony XPRI editor will take in native HDCAM over SDTI (or so I've read - another item I haven't seen in real life). That's the only editor I'm aware of that can ingest over SDTI.


EVS servers can link themselves using SDTI as well can't they? (And they can be used as a basic editing platform)


You left out the Ikegami EditCam. It shoots Avid DNxHD 135 to what is basically a laptop hard drive.

I'm not sure what formats the Ikegami SD cameras shoot, but the HD cameras only shoot HD and the SD cameras only shoot SD. The GVG camera (if it ever actually ships) is HD/SD switchable.

Yep - I first saw EditCam demo-ed in 1996 or 1997 as an ENG format (it had a neat internal vision switcher allowing you to edit in camera and then switch from live to recorded and back again - allowing a "doughnut" in-camera) I don't know anyone who actually bought them in the UK - and wasn't even aware they were still being developed or sold. You seldom see them advertised in the European broadcasting press. DVCPro and DVCam captured the ENG market, with some Beta SX too. (I think the availability of cheap PD150/PD170 upgraded prosumer models shooting on the same format sealed this)

I guess Sony was hoping for people to jump all over SDTI as an I/O interface, but firewire has pretty much won that battle.
Firewire, one of my favorite words.

Watched some of WNBC-DT's (NYC) heavily touted local 'HD news' yesterday and was puzzled by the really poor fidelity of 16X9 remote shots. They looked worse (fuzzier) than most 480i (4X3) upconverted to 1080i by my cable converter. Guess I should mention I rarely watch local news (happy talk; if-it-bleeds 'news'), so assumed all the growing hype about local HD news meant remote shots or recordings would use all the HD XDCAMs etc. and HD-capable microwave links publicized for a year or more. Looks like I missed the significance of earlier posts here. Can't seem to fathom they're screaming so much about HD news in promotions but not actually supplying it from outside the studios?! If so, the reasons are what...again? Thanks. -- John "dense about local news" Mason

Watched some of WNBC-DT's (NYC) heavily touted local 'HD news' yesterday and was puzzled by the really poor fidelity of 16X9 remote shots. They looked worse (fuzzier) than most 480i (4X3) upconverted to 1080i by my cable converter. Guess I should mention I rarely watch local news (happy talk; if-it-bleeds 'news'), so assumed all the growing hype about local HD news meant remote shots or recordings would use all the HD XDCAMs etc. and HD-capable microwave links publicized for a year or more. Looks like I missed the significance of earlier posts here. Can't seem to fathom they're screaming so much about HD news in promotions but not actually supplying it from outside the studios?! If so, the reasons are what...again? Thanks. -- John "dense about local news" Mason
the wnbc sony xdcams only shoot 480i 16x9.
they'll get the full 1080i if they purchase the cameras.
the hd microwave issue is bigger than one station ... nationwide issue that sprint/nextel is botching big-time ...

I can believe tha 2x replay for IMX and SD - but I'd be VERY interested to see 2x replay on SP and Digi - that must be some head assembly if it can cope with two different tape speeds and scan correctly both helically.
I could be making that part up. I'm out in Vegas for NAB, so I should ask Sony myself. (If I can get them to stop selling me XDCAM long enough.)
EVS servers can link themselves using SDTI as well can't they? (And they can be used as a basic editing platform)I forgot about that. EVS servers do connect to each other over SDTI. Very big in trucks, in fact I'm very interested in seeing that this week. Allegedly (if you read the marketing drivel), they can operate with DNxHD (aka VC-3) compression, so you could use it for acquisition. Like shoot a concert, iso all the cameras, and let the producer walk away with a hard drive full of footage for post. No tape. Should be better/easier than HDCAM or DVCPro HD, only short of HDCAM-SR or D5 in quality.
Yep - I first saw EditCam demo-ed in 1996 or 1997 as an ENG format (it had a neat internal vision switcher allowing you to edit in camera and then switch from live to recorded and back again - allowing a "doughnut" in-camera) I don't know anyone who actually bought them in the UK - and wasn't even aware they were still being developed or sold.Weird that they aren't big in Europe. Their studio cameras are pretty big over here. They've been selling those for two years, offering a free trade/upgrade to their new version (with the supposedly awesome CMOS sensor) when it comes out.

Weird that they aren't big in Europe. Their studio cameras are pretty big over here. They've been selling those for two years, offering a free trade/upgrade to their new version (with the supposedly awesome CMOS sensor) when it comes out.

Not sure about mainland Europe - but Ikegami are nowhere near as popular in studios as they were in the 80s and 90s in the UK. Teddington studios, Capital Group and LWT run Ike's I think - but I can't think of that many more that jump to mind?

Quite a few BBC regional studios had 4:3 (CCD and tubed) Ikegamis in the 80s and 90s - but none were replaced with 16:9 Ike's - and instead Thomson, Philips and Sony's pretty much rule in BBC studios. (Thomson 1707s are the standard 16:9 SD regional news studio camera, BVP E30s and HDC1500s the standard production studio camera - with E30s also in use in the network news studios), with some LDK100s in other regional news and national news channel studios)

The BBC had quite a few HL79s in the early 80s - but these were pretty much all replaced with Sonys.

The Thomsons weren't really used for OBs that much - that is pretty much a straight Sony/Philips divide.

(Still can't get used to Thomson/Philips/GrassValley being merged - though it was an excuse for Thomson to bury all but a couple of models of their camera ranges - which were both extensively used by the BBC in the 80s and 90s once Link - the last British camera manufacturer - ceased trading)

Ike's were more popular as ENG camcorders in the days of Beta SP dockable backs - but these days the DSR DVCam Sony range is pretty much the universal standard for ENG in mainstream UK News production.

They just showed a report in HD. (Haven't watched in a long time so I don't know how many they've done.)

Over the last couple of days they've been doing more 16:9 news reports. They a 16:9 SD report about the earthquake in China, Also they did a 16:9 SD report abut an injured soldier in Iraq. Today they also did a and HD report about some soldiers.

Looks like NBC News is deploying more HD cameras into the field. Lots of the on-location remotes in the past few weeks have been HD rather than 16:9 SD. Off the top of my head, in the past week, Lee Cowan was in California in HD covering the recession gold rush, a piece on the Youtube orchestra was in HD, and tonight Lester Holt was in HD at Columbine and did a piece there. This on top of HD at the NBC bureaus in Washington and LA, the White House, Congress, and the Pentagon.

I'm guessing these improvements are tied to the pending launch of MSNBC HD.

EDIT: The Earth Week report on Sea Change was also HD.

The NBC Network crews out of NYC shoot stuff for Today and Nightly News and I've watched some of NBC's Today show and the edited packages are frequently 4:3.
Now the Network crews go out with a Sony F900/R HDCAM package shooting 1080. Why they don't edit the packages in HD I'm not sure yet.

If you hadn't heard CNBC did their first full documentary in HD (60 minutes).
see it here:
http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=16119613#post16119613

NBC is wanting to go P2 for all Network News. The Sony F900s are leased and temporary. I heard a NBC O&O local station was looking at a 1/3" CCD shoulder-mount HD camera the HPX-300 P2 camera. That is pretty far down the quality scale.
medium to high end HD uses 2/3" CCDs.
There are some 1/2" CCDs on cameras and the tiny cameras were 1/3 and 1/4" chips. It is usually low-light where you can tell the main difference as well as everything being in focus.

I thought I'd drag this semi-dormant thread out to give an update.

The Podcast of NBCNN on iTunes is now available in 16:9. I can't tell if it is in HD (720p or 1080i) but it seems to take longer to download so the file must have gotten bigger in the last couple of weeks.

so it must of be in hd then

so it must of be in hd then

No, it is not.

I transferred today's file to a USB Memory stick and played it through my WD TV. It is 16:9, but it is not HD.

Our local NBC affiliate, WLWT, has been showing NBC Nightly News on Saturdays at 7pm ET instead of 6:30pm. They show it in HD complete with HD commercials, etc.

My questions is, does anyone know if NBC re-broadcasts Nightly News again at 7pm or would our local station have to be recording this in HD? I understand that they rebroadcast for the other three time zones (sometimes with an updated "west coast edition" if necessary), but I didn't know if they also did the rebroadcast every half hour as well?

Along with multiple time zone feeds, the evening news feeds at the networks tend to be repeated/updated half hour feeds (at least two per time zone).

Along with multiple time zone feeds, the evening news feeds at the networks tend to be repeated/updated half hour feeds (at least two per time zone).Thanks for confirming!

I am amazed at how good the NBC Nightly News studio shots look. It looks like Blu-ray quality to my eyes.