This is an European model(PV-60). Maybe you have seen the same "effect" on the US- version(PX 60).

I was watching "Madagascar" and saw a big black-level fluctuation in the scene when the animals was inside the wooden boxes for transportation. In this opening scene only the animals eyes was visible and the fluctuation was very annoying when they blinked.

Is it possible to permanently turn off this function in the service menu?


Best regard
Robert
Sweden

Greetings

No ... not in the SM ...

However ... choosing cinema mode may lessen or remove this "enhancement."

Regards

Thank you, Michael, for responding. I will look into wich "mode" i was using.

Since you seem to be familiar with the service menu, do you have any tips you can give me?

Regards
Robert

Greetings

The service menu is only good for grayscale ... 3 settings for SD and 3 for HD ... not much more.

User settings account for the rest of the calibration portion.

Regards

Michael,
Do ISFer's still believe Panasonic is one of the top choices despite this floating black level which many have also described as false contouring?

'However ... choosing cinema mode may lessen or remove this "enhancement."'

I don't quite follow. Could you elaborate? Thanks.

Have you had the opportunity to play with the new sets PX75U?

Do ISFer's still believe Panasonic is one of the top choices despite this floating black level which many have also described as false contouring?

:confused:
Floating black level and false contouring are two separate issues. Floating black level is having the display's black level change with average picture level. That is, black areas of the screen get brighter or darker as average picture brightness changes. Ideally, black is black, and it's appearance should remain constant regardless of whatever else is being displayed.

False contouring is also referred to as "banding" and is visible as halos around bright objects or as discrete steps in color of large areas such as sky instead of smooth uniform changes.

Regards,
Steve

Greetings

The service menu is only good for grayscale ... 3 settings for SD and 3 for HD ... not much more.

User settings account for the rest of the calibration portion.

Regards

That could explain why i see different color temperature when i change from 480p to 720p.

And i suppose that there is no manual wich describes the abbrevieations found in the service menu.... :(

Im sorry for all the questions. In Sweden ISF is only for those who buy a Pioneer plasma. Maybe in the high end scale of Pansonic or in the commercial models there is a better service menu. Atleast the commercial model look better.

Well, this is my first plasma, and i have to begin somewhere. Oh by the way, i succeded to find horisontal geometry(or was it vertical?), but since overscan is nearly a non-issue i havent touched it yet. When i buy my first high-def material, and player, i suppose i can make a final touch i the geometry assumedly there is no PAL/NTSC geometry problem(the geometry is jumping up or down when i choose PAL or NTSC) and high-def would only be one parameter(well i think anyway.. :o ).

Robert

That could explain why i see different color temperature when i change from 480p to 720p.

And i suppose that there is no manual wich describes the abbrevieations found in the service menu.... :(

Im sorry for all the questions. In Sweden ISF is only for those who buy a Pioneer plasma. Maybe in the high end scale of Pansonic or in the commercial models there is a better service menu. Atleast the commercial model look better.

Well, this is my first plasma, and i have to begin somewhere. Oh by the way, i succeded to find horisontal geometry(or was it vertical?), but since overscan is nearly a non-issue i havent touched it yet. When i buy my first high-def material, and player, i suppose i can make a final touch i the geometry assumedly there is no PAL/NTSC geometry problem(the geometry is jumping up or down when i choose PAL or NTSC) and high-def would only be one parameter(well i think anyway.. :o ).

Robert

The panasonic SM items that are useful are pretty straight forward, R-CUT, R-DRV etc. are the RGB cuts/drives used for gray scale calibration on the US models. As Michael pointed out there are six memory locations for these settings, low/mid/high for HD/SD where low=warm, mid=standard, high=cool. cinema mode uses the warm setting and is closest (but still way off) to a D6500 gray scale. You're correct about the overscan, I see 0% overscan on HD and 2-3% on SD inputs. I have not seen the effect you mentioned in your 1st post (fluctuating black level), this sounds like dynamic contrast and I don't think the panny's use that.

The panasonic SM items that are useful are pretty straight forward, R-CUT, R-DRV etc. are the RGB cuts/drives used for gray scale calibration on the US models. As Michael pointed out there are six memory locations for these settings, low/mid/high for HD/SD where low=warm, mid=standard, high=cool. cinema mode uses the warm setting and is closest (but still way off) to a D6500 gray scale. You're correct about the overscan, I see 0% overscan on HD and 2-3% on SD inputs. I have not seen the effect you mentioned in your 1st post (fluctuating black level), this sounds like dynamic contrast and I don't think the panny's use that.

Maybe it is the C.a.t.s- function(automatic something, depending on surrounding light in the room) that rears its ugly head. Howewer, it was clearly visible in the scene i mentioned with "madagscar".

Is 6500 to blue in the gains in your opinion? I turned down blue gain a little(just eyeballing). And the blue cuts was turned down because the blacks where a little to blue.

Considering the problems with smearing, the next Panasonic plasma that enters the doorway could probably be a comersiall model.

Robert

Maybe it is the C.a.t.s- function(automatic something, depending on surrounding light in the room) that rears its ugly head. Howewer, it was clearly visible in the scene i mentioned with "madagscar".

Is 6500 to blue in the gains in your opinion? I turned down blue gain a little(just eyeballing). And the blue cuts was turned down because the blacks where a little to blue.

Considering the problems with smearing, the next Panasonic plasma that enters the doorway could probably be a comersiall model.

Robert

I turn off CATS, it ruins my contrast settings. On my set getting to D65 involved mostly a reduction in blue gain but you really need a meter to get it right, especially for the cuts.

What smearing problem are you referring to? The only smearing I have seen is in poor quality/overcompressed source material.

I turn off CATS, it ruins my contrast settings. On my set getting to D65 involved mostly a reduction in blue gain but you really need a meter to get it right, especially for the cuts.

What smearing problem are you referring to? The only smearing I have seen is in poor quality/overcompressed source material.

How do you turn off CATS? I cant find it in the menu. Is it in the SM?
I see the smearing as you say in poorly quality program. When i put on a dvd via HDMI it is nearly gone, but there is still some smearing.

My friends plasma(hisense), is totally free from smearing even when the source is poor. Whennthe noice reduction is in off-position, it reminds me of a flickering CRT.
On my plasma the picture is just a little to perfect. No flicker, but it reminds me of Philips "pixel Plus", if you know what i mean... :)

Its just a hunch, but i think the circuits that take care of the signal still have some impact on the picture. In the SM there is no indication of a parameter that tells me how to turn of the noice reduction.

Robert

Your user menu must be different, I can turn off CATS and all noise reduction (video and mpeg) in my user menu. The only time I can see any smearing is when broadcasters reduce their data rates on HD signals. I can't imagine a panel that could overcome this problem unless it reduces resolution in favor of motion blur.

The CATS function is only on when the picture is in AUTO-mode, my manual says. In the manual there is a picture that says that the sensor for the CATS is on the front. Its a small plastic "eye". I think i will put some tape over it just to see what happens.

Anyway, thank you for being patient with all my question, zoyd!

Regards
Robert, Sweden

CATS is the PX600 and Commerical models, not a menu option in the PX60U.

CATS is the PX600 and Commerical models, not a menu option in the PX60U.
He's got the european version PV60 which apparently does have it.

He's got the european version PV60 which apparently does have it.

I did not know that.
I stand corrected.

I posted this in another mega-thread that will probably get lost so I'm reposting here in case others are interested.

Measurement done with i1pro, getgray 5% step windowed patterns, dvdplayer via hdmi input. i1pro is positioned to read black border ~3/4 of the way out to the edge of the panel. Probe noise level is 0.02 cd/m^2, the 1st point at 0.04 cd/m^2 is an average of 10 samples.

It starts out at ~0.04 cd/m^2, immediately jumps up to 0.08 and bounces around there for awhile, gradually decreases to 0.06 and then takes a big jump at ~50 cd/m^2 (70% stimulus) to 0.15 cd/m^2

http://i64.photobucket.com/albums/h173/prairie_2006/black_level.jpg

So the maximum attainable contrast ratio for this set occurs at 65% stimulus and is equal to 908. From 70% to 100% the contrast ratio varies from 388 to 753. Note, before you ask, no there is no influence of stray or scattered light from the bright portion of the image getting back to the probe. If that were the case the curve would continually rise as the luminance increased which it does not.

Well, i have some good news about the black fluctuation, but also some bad news.
I recently discovered that at an certain level of brightness there is no fluctuation.

The bad news is that the black-level has to be a little higher than i wanted it to be. This brightness issue is fortunately the same on all the different picture modes. On a certain level the fluctuation dissapear regardless of picture mode.

I tought i could find a solution in the service menu. There is no indication that this fluctuation would change if i changed the brightness range a little bit.

To see this happend i must have a completely black scene with subtitles. As subtitle comes and goes i could clearly see the fluctuation. If another bright object appears at the same time as the subtitle the fluctuation dissapear. This could mean it is an automated function. If the input-mode label is visible you have to waite for it to dissapear. As far as i know this seems to be related only to the PV-60(European model).

Robert
Sweden

I have a 42S1 Panasonic Plasma. I too noticed the black level fluctuation mostly when watching blu-rays and some dvds that were 16:9 aspect ratio. the fluctuation was most noticeable in the black bars that were on the top and bottom of the screen. I thought my plasma was defective until I finally found something that solved the problem. There is a setting in the user menu under advanced picture settings. It is called 'black level'. By default it is set to 'light'. I believe this 'light' setting is actually a dynamic mode because when I set black level to 'dark', the fluctuating stops (at least to my eyes). Hope this helps.

I have a 42S1 Panasonic Plasma. I too noticed the black level fluctuation mostly when watching blu-rays and some dvds that were 16:9 aspect ratio. the fluctuation was most noticeable in the black bars that were on the top and bottom of the screen. I thought my plasma was defective until I finally found something that solved the problem. There is a setting in the user menu under advanced picture settings. It is called 'black level'. By default it is set to 'light'. I believe this 'light' setting is actually a dynamic mode because when I set black level to 'dark', the fluctuating stops (at least to my eyes). Hope this helps.

Good find! But i will not help my outdated PV60..:o

the "black level" setting has absolutely nothing to do with "floating blacks". the reason it appears to "fix" your problem is that, by setting it to "dark", you are simply crushing the dark grays into black.

the "black level" setting has absolutely nothing to do with "floating blacks". the reason it appears to "fix" your problem is that, by setting it to "dark", you are simply crushing the dark grays into black.

qft.