http://www.joystiq.com/2007/03/27/netflix-ceo-joins-microsoft-board/

This fellow has been talking about Netflix on demand downloads for the past few years and the difficulties of getting that data to the living room.

Now he just joined the board of the company providing the most VoD content to the living room in the industry.

Just imagine Netflix on 360... no more waiting for the mail.

they dont need netflix to get that done.... just change their live video marketplace away from the lame on demand copy. they already have quite a few content publishers on board.

Very interesting development and one that hints at things to come for XBL.

I wish they would offer monthly service plans instead of individual transactions than I might consider...But than probably not.

I only care about netflix if they get games. They will never compete with Blockbusters new deal its not even close. But if they get 360 games then its another story.

I only care about netflix if they get games. They will never compete with Blockbusters new deal its not even close. But if they get 360 games then its another story.


Blockbuster is making the deal even sweeter not only can you exchange movies in store for rentals and get monthly coupons for movies and games but its been rumored and within the next few months they want to add games to their online rental service...Netflix=screwed.

If that is true all video game online rentals=screwed

they dont need netflix to get that done.... just change their live video marketplace away from the lame on demand copy. they already have quite a few content publishers on board.

Netflix has a subscription-based *streaming* service where you get viewing hours rather than movies in your quota.
All their content is in SD WMV so if it were to appear on Live it would be a *complement* to the Video Marketplace, not a replacement.

Obviously something is up. What we'll know soon enough; I'm guessing early may when the new Dashboard update comes out...

Netflix has a subscription-based *streaming* service where you get viewing hours rather than movies in your quota.
All their content is in SD WMV so if it were to appear on Live it would be a *complement* to the Video Marketplace, not a replacement.

Obviously something is up. What we'll know soon enough; I'm guessing early may when the new Dashboard update comes out...


Which would be a step in the right direction...While the marketplace video content is pretty stellar for the most part it still lacks and adding subscription based services would be a great idea...I know I would consider it, especially if they offered the HD downloads as well...But knowing Microsoft I doubt it.

I know this isn't a Blockbuster thread, but I think they still have a big disadvantage to Netflix. I changed over several months back, and am strongly considering changing back to Netflix. If BB adds games, maybe I'd stay. . .

The problems they have are that they feel the need to censor what you watch (no NC-17 stuff at all (lots of documentaries end up NC-17), but they don't have a problem renting Playboy or some (but not all) unrated films), their turnaround time sucks compared to Netflix, and I live just outside a major city, and they will send you a random title in your queue if they feel the titles above it (that they say are available, not short wait or anything like that) wouldn't get to you in time. For example, I've recently been sent the 8th, 12th, and 20th items in my queue. Their selection of anything foreign or more than a couple decades old is also really dodgy. They don't have the classic horror film Dracula from 1931, but they do have far less classic (although still good) horror film Freaks from 1932. Go figure.

The point of all that is that the features Blockbuster is adding do not appeal to the people using Netflix, for the most part, so they won't really eat into their subscribers unless they fix these things.

Which would be a step in the right direction...While the marketplace video content is pretty stellar for the most part it still lacks and adding subscription based services would be a great idea...I know I would consider it, especially if they offered the HD downloads as well...But knowing Microsoft I doubt it.

I agree on both points. I currently only download the free stuff from the video marketplace, as the individual item price is way too high for me. If they had a subscription service I would probably subscribe immediately (depending on the terms, of course), as they have decent content now. However, MS seems to be intent on getting maximum money from XBL, given recent reports of their current disagreement with Epic about GOW content, and I would think a subscription service would light up far fewer dollar signs in their eyes than buying individual items.

They do have a subscription service with Zune, so maybe they see the light and will add something similar to XBL.

I agree on both points. I currently only download the free stuff from the video marketplace, as the individual item price is way too high for me. If they had a subscription service I would probably subscribe immediately (depending on the terms, of course), as they have decent content now. However, MS seems to be intent on getting maximum money from XBL, given recent reports of their current disagreement with Epic about GOW content, and I would think a subscription service would light up far fewer dollar signs in their eyes than buying individual items.

They do have a subscription service with Zune, so maybe they see the light and will add something similar to XBL.


My problem with the marketplace is that I dont want to pay individually when I can get the content either from my dvr or from another place at a much lower cost...Which is why a subscription based feature interests me...Now considering they want to add IPTV depending on how that works out that might be the only way we get subscriptions and depending on their offerings it might well be worth it...Of course this comes down to pricing, I wonder how MSFT will deal with offering IPTV and DVR feature while offering TV/Movie downloads...Seems like a step in the right direction for the people but for them one is going to take a hit financially.

Also BLOCKBUSTER related, I have nothing but good things to say about Blockbuster..I've tried out both, neither of them send you your top que movies even that is stated on both websites so it doesnt bother me much...With Netflix I was getting 3 movies every 2 weeks..With Blockbuster I have a solid routine, I get movies usually on Friday or Saturday return them to the store next tuesday for 3 more rentals watch those and by the time I get those 3 more arrive...I get 6 movies a week with a 3 to 4 day turnaround so I cant really complain...

I agree with the above 2 posts.... ive bought a few movies and tv shows off xblvm but 5 things total.

If there was a sub level they would make less money per item but their numbers would dramatically increase IMO. I know I would download a ton more stuff if a subscription was available and to be honest I would be willing to pay a bit more per month than netflix/blockbuster because of the ease of use a service like this could present (but if i did something like this it would have to replace my existing blockbuster subscription so having most of the content from a majority of the major studios would be crucial).... This is also the reason I think we havent seen a sub level yet is MS wants to be sure they have the network/server capacity to support a service like that (remember how bad things were when xblvm first lauched?) and they wanted to wait until they had a big stable of content.

But the one thing that worries me about using the lame on demand knockoff is how the movies "expire" and disappear from the marketplace after a set amount of time. Hopefully MS is storing the movies somewhere so they can be brought back when/if such a service is launched.

Also BLOCKBUSTER related, I have nothing but good things to say about Blockbuster..I've tried out both, neither of them send you your top que movies even that is stated on both websites so it doesnt bother me much...

Netflix only sends a lower item in the queue if the top item is not marked "Available". Blockbuster uses some sort of bizarre algorithm (which they won't describe) to choose the first title marked "Available" that will arrive within two days. The issue is obviously one of inventory or inventory management. In 3 years of using Netflix, I always received the first item listed as Available. In 6 months of using Blockbuster, I've only received the first item listed as "Available" a handful of times. I know this is related to my selections (I choose some more offbeat stuff alot of the time), but it's annoying all the same.

One thing Netflix does that sucks is prioritizing DVDs that are listed with some form of wait based on your usage. IOW, if two people have short wait listed for a DVD, the person that uses Netflix less will get the first available copy, regardless of when the users put the item in their respective queues.

The self-censorship and bizarre library choices with foreign and older films I think are the more serious issues that would need to be addressed to get Netflix customers to come over.

Anyway, I've derailed this thread enough. If you want to continue the conversation, PM me.

Netflix only sends a lower item in the queue if the top item is not marked "Available". Blockbuster uses some sort of bizarre algorithm (which they won't describe) to choose the first title marked "Available" that will arrive within two days. The issue is obviously one of inventory or inventory management. In 3 years of using Netflix, I always received the first item listed as Available. In 6 months of using Blockbuster, I've only received the first item listed as "Available" a handful of times. I know this is related to my selections (I choose some more offbeat stuff alot of the time), but it's annoying all the same.

One thing Netflix does that sucks is prioritizing DVDs that are listed with some form of wait based on your usage. IOW, if two people have short wait listed for a DVD, the person that uses Netflix less will get the first available copy, regardless of when the users put the item in their respective queues.

The self-censorship and bizarre library choices with foreign and older films I think are the more serious issues that would need to be addressed to get Netflix customers to come over.

Anyway, I've derailed this thread enough. If you want to continue the conversation, PM me.

In my 4 months of using NF I never once received my top 5 films every out of a que of always 25...More importantly is that the movies I did have in my que out of nowhere half of them would come up as unavailable...Netflix treated me like gold during my 2 week trial but after the trial period they immediately throttled me and that I did not like...I gave up on them after Blockbuster started offering the total access exchange in store...Quite frankly I dont think I will ever go back to another service such as Netflix as long as Blockbuster maintains their level of customer satisfaction at least through me...I am getting game rentals and twice as many movies for under 20 bucks a month that cant be beat.

And this type of thing is one advantage a download service would have as an advantage over netflix/blockbuster.

theres no reason there would be throttling with a download service since they dont have supply issues with getting discs. also there is no such of a thing as "avaliable" and "very long wait" like we see with some of the more popular titles on blockbuster/netflix. Ive seen a few of them myself. Not having to deal with all of this is why I would be willing to pay more than netflix on a subscription to live marketplace.

I use the "Watch Now" service Netflix currently offers (free, no addition to your monthly plan) quite often. It'd be great if I was able to access the "Watch Now" function from my 360.

If I could also access my que from Netflix and download movies to my 360, instead of having to wait for them in the mail, I'd be very happy. Even if a subscription of this type cost a few dollars more, if I could get them in HD I'd subscribe.

-JR

I think having Netflix on the 360 would be great, especially if they allowed it to be paid monthly instead of by movie. Would even be sweeter if they included the HD versions but I don't know if they would do that since MS uses some sort of compression that might not be available to them.

As far as my Netflix experience; I've used them for the last 2 years and I think their service is great. I get whatever movie is first in my queue that is "available". Only time I don't is when it's on "short/long wait" status but that usually only lasts about 2-3 days. If it is on that wait list, I get the next available movie in the list.

Currently I have about 275 movies in it and with my turn around, it goes quickly. Since I live in New Jersey and one of the distribution centers is close by, my average turn around is 3 days.
I get the movie, watch it that night, send it in the next day, the following day they process my next available and ship it then I have the new one in the mailbox the following day.

Netflix on 360 would be a true killer app. If they packaged Live and Netflix together for $25-$30/month allowing you to keep 3 movies on your HD at a time, they'd be unstoppable.

Blockbuster is smoke and mirrors. Gouged people for 20 years so they can afford to take huge losses to put Netflix out of business. It's not working though, as Netflix is still going strong due to a vastly superior website, lightning fast shipping, and great branding.

Netflix also has a big lead in downloadable movies. The 360, as a living room media PC that's simple to use and has a built-in distribution mechanism, is a huge piece of that puzzle.

Blockbuster will have to go back to charging more for less eventually, simply because of the reality of having thousands of brick and mortar locations. If you're on the fence, go with Netflix. They push the technology envelope, and in a sense you're rewarding BB for ripping everyone off for so long.

The BlockBuster next to me abandoned the "no late fees" thing only a month after it started. They're back to $5 rentals for 2 nights and $5 per day you keep it late. All their rules are dependent on the individual stores.

Since I live in New Jersey and one of the distribution centers is close by, my average turn around is 3 days.
I get the movie, watch it that night, send it in the next day, the following day they process my next available and ship it then I have the new one in the mailbox the following day.

My turnaround time is about the same. It's one of the things I love about Netflix. I mailed "Rocky Balboa" yesterday morning, and received confirmation this morning that it was received. I'm sure I'll receive notification that it's shipped today, and it'll show up tomorrow in my mailbox. Three day turnaround is fantastic.

-JR

Netflix on 360 would be a true killer app. If they packaged Live and Netflix together for $25-$30/month allowing you to keep 3 movies on your HD at a time, they'd be unstoppable.

Blockbuster is smoke and mirrors. Gouged people for 20 years so they can afford to take huge losses to put Netflix out of business. It's not working though, as Netflix is still going strong due to a vastly superior website, lightning fast shipping, and great branding.

Netflix also has a big lead in downloadable movies. The 360, as a living room media PC that's simple to use and has a built-in distribution mechanism, is a huge piece of that puzzle.

Blockbuster will have to go back to charging more for less eventually, simply because of the reality of having thousands of brick and mortar locations. If you're on the fence, go with Netflix. They push the technology envelope, and in a sense you're rewarding BB for ripping everyone off for so long.

The BlockBuster next to me abandoned the "no late fees" thing only a month after it started. They're back to $5 rentals for 2 nights and $5 per day you keep it late. All their rules are dependent on the individual stores.

All 3 locations still have the no late fees...On top of that they offer total access...My turnaround is much quicker with blockbuster. If I return my 3 on a Tuesday and check out 3 I have 3 more dvds in the mail by Friday..Netflix took about a week.

It seems it depends on the location for most people, which in my case it doesnt hold true. The Netflix center was about an hour closer than the Blockbuster one around me. So that holds very little truth to some peoples reasoning. I am not a brand whore and will go with whoever treats me the best and gives me a good deal. If the great service from Blockbuster ends I will just switch to another carrier, perhaps even checking out Hollywood since they now carry HD-DVD...Best thing to do is try out both past the trial period and whatever one you like more go with it...You cant beat exchanging in the store for more movies...

You cant beat exchanging in the store for more movies...

I am happy with Netflix but being able to exchange at the store really appeals to me. The Netflix turnaround is great but with my viewing habits it seems I always find my movies would arrive on Sunday if the mail was delivered so I don't get them until Monday. It would be nice to be able to run down to the store and grab one when this happens.

The BlockBuster next to me abandoned the "no late fees" thing only a month after it started. They're back to $5 rentals for 2 nights and $5 per day you keep it late. All their rules are dependent on the individual stores.

Blockbuster along with all of these types of places will be getting a dose of reality soon enough in the future..

Netflix on 360 would be a true killer app. If they packaged Live and Netflix together for $25-$30/month allowing you to keep 3 movies on your HD at a time, they'd be unstoppable.



Eh, not for me.. I don't rent movies enough to justify another monthly bill.. I'm not rich and not the norm here..

And this type of thing is one advantage a download service would have as an advantage over netflix/blockbuster.

theres no reason there would be throttling with a download service since they dont have supply issues with getting discs. also there is no such of a thing as "avaliable" and "very long wait" like we see with some of the more popular titles on blockbuster/netflix. Ive seen a few of them myself. Not having to deal with all of this is why I would be willing to pay more than netflix on a subscription to live marketplace.

But, there is Comcast shutting down or throttling your connection because you've download/streamed X number of HD movies in a given month, and since Comcast doesn't make money and they offer that service themselves, I doubt they'll let that happen without stepping in.

But, there is Comcast shutting down or throttling your connection because you've download/streamed X number of HD movies in a given month, and since Comcast 's a doesn't make money and they offer that service themselves, I doubt they'll let that happen without stepping in.



Huh? Are you talking about cutting back your internet speed if you buy a movie through them with your Cable service?


EDIT: I see what you mean, and yes on Revision (AKA Diggnation) they had an episode where someone from Comcast said there is a Cap on how much someone can download in a given month.. It's a huge amount but I think someone would have to download a movie a day to get close to that cap.

Huh? Are you talking about cutting back your internet speed if you buy a movie through them with your Cable service?


EDIT: I see what you mean, and yes on Revision (AKA Diggnation) they had an episode where someone from Comcast said there is a Cap on how muc someone can download in a given month..
I think he's talking about them cutting you off in general once you exceed their ambiguous bandwidth limit.
http://blog.washingtonpost.com/fasterforward/2007/03/cut_off_by_comcast.html

I know this isn't a Blockbuster thread, but I think they still have a big disadvantage to Netflix. I changed over several months back, and am strongly considering changing back to Netflix. If BB adds games, maybe I'd stay. . .

The problems they have are that they feel the need to censor what you watch (no NC-17 stuff at all (lots of documentaries end up NC-17), but they don't have a problem renting Playboy or some (but not all) unrated films), their turnaround time sucks compared to Netflix, and I live just outside a major city, and they will send you a random title in your queue if they feel the titles above it (that they say are available, not short wait or anything like that) wouldn't get to you in time. For example, I've recently been sent the 8th, 12th, and 20th items in my queue. Their selection of anything foreign or more than a couple decades old is also really dodgy. They don't have the classic horror film Dracula from 1931, but they do have far less classic (although still good) horror film Freaks from 1932. Go figure.

The point of all that is that the features Blockbuster is adding do not appeal to the people using Netflix, for the most part, so they won't really eat into their subscribers unless they fix these things.
Not if you live in NY. I sometimes I get the movie the same day it says it ships which is never longer than 2 days and I have been a member for over a year easy. They also do free instore game/movie rentals with the coupons. And now you can take the online movies and exchange them for instore movies.How can anyone beet that.

Is anyone who is using the Netflix movie downloading system able to comment on the file size, and whether 720p or 1080p are supported, and what audio format the downloads support? Do you have a dedicated computer video server? Do the movies play from your computer without any freezing or skipping? Other than size limitations, is there a limit to how many you can store on your hard drive or how long you can keep them? What kind of video card are you driving and do you use component, DVI, or XGA output?

Is anyone who is using the Netflix movie downloading system able to comment on the file size, and whether 720p or 1080p are supported, and what audio format the downloads support? Do you have a dedicated computer video server? Do the movies play from your computer without any freezing or skipping? Other than size limitations, is there a limit to how many you can store on your hard drive or how long you can keep them? What kind of video card are you driving and do you use component, DVI, or XGA output?

The movies play in your browser. I have Comcast broadband at there was no lag. I believe the movies are in 480 and as for sound, I don't have a surround sound one, so I can't comment.

Also, you are limited to how many hours you can watch per month. 3-a-month people, like me, get 18hrs of movie watching online per month.

no more waiting for the mail.

Hello waiting for 30 GB of HD content to download...

Hello waiting for 30 GB of HD content to download...

Well the HD 720P files MS uses now are 7G or so, they take much longer than a "normal" 7G download should but I was able to grab one while at work no problem. So if I request a disk from Netflix now at 7am, I can get watch it the following night or the night after (U.S. mail varies), but if I were to select a download at 7am I would be watching it that night.

Thats a pretty nice turnaround time IMHO. The two problems with MS's service is price (New releases are absurd, library releases are only ok) and the fact that it really should not take as long as it does.

Well the HD 720P files MS uses now are 7G or so, they take much longer than a "normal" 7G download should but I was able to grab one while at work no problem. So if I request a disk from Netflix now at 7am, I can get watch it the following night or the night after (U.S. mail varies), but if I were to select a download at 7am I would be watching it that night.

Thats a pretty nice turnaround time IMHO. The two problems with MS's service is price (New releases are absurd, library releases are only ok) and the fact that it really should not take as long as it does.

Do you mean you never turn off your console?

if i knew i had a movie downloading i wouldnt.... let it stay on while im at work and come home to a new movie.

and the biggest hd movie ive seen so far on vm is 7 gigs.... far from that 30 gig you quoted. and really the quality is amazing considering is ~50% less file size than the hd-dvd. (and IMO is about 90% of the quality)

Hello waiting for 30 GB of HD content to download...

That's one of the problems of the future. The content will be compressed a lot more and quality will be an issue, 720P while I like that many will be po'ed. The more they compress the more they make. That is why the disc is still a good thing. Plus I bet we lose overall value when downloading is the only option. No more of the $20/month for 3 out at a time as much as you want to watch model. Not in a big hurry to switch over to downloading.

Do you mean you never turn off your console?

And its still running! Its a well ventilated launch unit that spends many an hour running as a MCE extrender. Every hour of television my wife and I watch is on that unit. Movies are mostly played on the Core unit in the HT with HD DVD.

That's one of the problems of the future. The content will be compressed a lot more and quality will be an issue, 720P while I like that many will be po'ed. The more they compress the more they make. That is why the disc is still a good thing. Plus I bet we lose overall value when downloading is the only option. No more of the $20/month for 3 out at a time as much as you want to watch model. Not in a big hurry to switch over to downloading.

There is no reason to expect a loss in value accross the board. 3 a month unlimited comes out to an average number per month when you factor in shipping. It would be relatively easy to apply that data to create download packages to be similar.

Thats said I am sure there would be a premium of some sort. We pay for convenience with everything after all. Then again there would be a benefit that Netflix could allow everyone that wanted Children of Men to get Children of Men the week it is out instead of most people having to wait. (I was happy to get CoM shipped on the release date... I can never recall that happening with an HD DVD before!)

That's one of the problems of the future. The content will be compressed a lot more and quality will be an issue, 720P while I like that many will be po'ed. The more they compress the more they make. That is why the disc is still a good thing. Plus I bet we lose overall value when downloading is the only option. No more of the $20/month for 3 out at a time as much as you want to watch model. Not in a big hurry to switch over to downloading.

Yeah 720p at lower bitrates might be a problem but I would say from a consumer level people really dont care about hd-dvd/bluray quality as long as it "looks good". Sure marketplace downloads wont look as good as bluray/hd-dvd but its pretty damn close at 720p and close enough I really think people wont care (beyond those av nuts here at AVSForum)

Also consider we have more or less accepted crap quality dvd's as it is. How many movies have 50% of the disc used for extras and stuff like that? Ive seen quite a few and more and more are doing that (pretty much any non big name movie).

And just a comparison of my blockbuster queue i have a total of 20 flicks in there atm and 7 of them have a wait of some time (2 long waits, 1 coming soon and the rest short waits) but 7 out of 20 movies isnt very good at all (granted i have quite a few hd-dvd's in there atm). But still not having to deal with wait times would be a pretty big deal to me and I saw similar things when I was with netflix.