Inside Apple TV
http://www.roughlydrafted.com/RD/RDM.Tech.Q1.07/E1D8A057-6FBB-4269-A348-27AF9010FB19.html

Apple TV 5:1 audio Myths
http://www.roughlydrafted.com/RD/RDM.Tech.Q1.07/147048D8-D8B7-45E7-9A97-3CD5B4C2B75A.html

Apple TV and Xbox Myths
http://www.roughlydrafted.com/RD/RDM.Tech.Q1.07/58FDAFCD-8549-4406-8ABD-2339995CFFFA.html

Oh boy, Geo. We went tangential (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=823977&page=1&pp=30) on RD in the thread on DVD ripping, long 'bout post #29. You have any thoughts on it?

I'm just catching up on some reading this morning and sharing what I think is interesting. I don't agree with everything Daniel Eran writes, but I think he's a bright guy with a lot of pertinent observations. I also had never read that specialized thread you cited because I have no need to do DVD ripping (we don't own many DVDs and haven't added NAS or server storage yet) and we plan to build a system around downloadable iTunes HD movies and videos as it is flushed out. Besides, there are two other links with interesting reading in that post.

What I do have is complete confidence that Apple eventually will deliver a complete home entertainment system that will work really, really well, even if they only deliver it gradually, in pieces.

As for my thoughts on Daniel's take on Apple's 5:1 audio, I just read it and am thinking about it even as I finish reading the other new pieces. Much of what he writes seems to make sense to me, but some points do not. Clearly Apple is not about backwards compatibility or enabling audio and video formats used by pirates, and that is perfectly OK with me. Besides, apparently it already has been revealed that the "somewhat open" OS X version on the Apple TV can be hacked if some prefer to do this and add the appropriate QuickTime codecs they need. That's OK too.

But since we're starting from scratch with a Mac-centric digital media system at our house and don't currently use those other video codecs (or even much MPEG-2) on the computer, we have no big concerns about support for those file formats. S far as I'm concerned, MPEG-2 needs to go away because it is ineffecient, older technology. However, I also can't rule out the possibility that I might encounter a legitimate need to play these files on a computer in the future, and feel that their ought to be an easier way for Apple TV users to add the QuickTime codecs should they need them...

What's got you in such an adversarial mood today, wildrock?

Clearly Apple is not about backwards compatibility or enabling audio and video formats used by pirates, and that is perfectly OK with me.


I for one want to buy a car that doesnt drive faster than 70 MPH. Theres no place in the US where its legal to drive faster than 70MPH and speeds faster than that are used by criminals who want to outrun the police. I wish all car manufacturers reduced the maximum speed of cars to 70 MPH.

I like this one


"The other problem is that many people don’t have AC3/DTS speakers, so Apple would have to license a decoder so that the Apple TV could downconvert that digital 5.1 audio into regular stereo. In fact, the majority of 5.1 sound on DVDs is played back in regular stereo by end users. What a waste!"


I think anyone with a receiver plays their DVD's in 5.1.
I didn't know I needed AC3/DTS speakers. LOL thats funny.

Apple is not going to add the older AC3 to iTunes downloads because AC3 is a fat, old audio format that is only suited to DVD, just as MPEG-2 is similarly an old and fat format on the video side.
AC3 is very much alive and is the standard for OTA HDTV broadcasts as well. It will be around for a very long time in current media. There's a definite need for support.

What's got you in such an adversarial mood today, wildrock?I'm not trying to be adversarial with you, Geo. :)

When I read Eran's current articles, though, it got my hackles up. Probably because I've tried to discuss his writing and ideas with him before, and have had my concerns summarily dismissed with his anti-elitist attitude. Not that he has to put any value in what I have to say, but it is the way in which he brushes aside the "gold plated people" comments as being marginal in his greater scheme of things that pisses me off. I think the fact that many people take his writings at their face value as accurate, tends to rankle me, and when I and others here have to keep critiquing and correcting his work, it gets old. The people here at AVS are the ones who understand audio and video, and he should be listening to us, instead of telling us that we are irrelevant. It can only improve his writing and understanding of the CE and AV arenas if he keeps choosing to write about it.

Maybe I should just grow a thicker skin and ignore what I don't like about his writings. I've just found much about other aspects of his writings to have value, so that I expect some consistency.

Inside Apple TV
http://www.roughlydrafted.com/RD/RDM.Tech.Q1.07/E1D8A057-6FBB-4269-A348-27AF9010FB19.html....[/url]

Quote: "Almost three months ago, Ten Myths of Apple iPhone overturned misinformation on that device before it could get started...."

LOL, this guy REALLY believes in his own greatness and power!!?

If I weren't so stricken by his intellectual greatness and by his power as a writer, I would think that the above quote kind of mangles the English language.... But as it is, I will just remain on my knees, and gobble up his wisdom.

Just think, what it would be like, if it wasn't just Roughly Drafted, but actually thought out and finished?!!

P.S. I just couldn't help myself:-)

I like this one


"The other problem is that many people don’t have AC3/DTS speakers, so Apple would have to license a decoder so that the Apple TV could downconvert that digital 5.1 audio into regular stereo. In fact, the majority of 5.1 sound on DVDs is played back in regular stereo by end users. What a waste!"


I think anyone with a receiver plays their DVD's in 5.1.
I didn't know I needed AC3/DTS speakers. LOL thats funny.

Count me in as the average sub-audiophile. I think a GREAT majority do not even know that they are NOT getting 5.1 sound, and that they need to have a receiver to get the full surround sound.

As long as it sounds good and the bass is loud enough the average DVD watcher will enjoy it. And i think Apple knows this thats why they are not yet into going FULLY Surround yet.

I dont have a receiver, and just have probably a 4.1 system (1 subwoofer, 2 front and 2 rear satellites), and i am extremely happy with my setup. I am more concerned with the quality of the picture i get.

Maybe I should just grow a thicker skin and ignore what I don't like about his writings.

I'm not sure that's the best approach, wildrock, because it seems even some folks here, who should know better, can be taken in by this guy's approach. He "seems" to know what he's talking about, right? However, the last thing any of us needs is someone still watching 480i SD on a 4:3 tube tv, and rarely at that, trying to interpret and shape opinion about Macs and home theater issues.

I'm new to this guy, and it seems to me his capacity for self-delusion isn't quite on the scale of a Dvorak or Rob Enderle, but he shows some great potential. It's got to be tough to catch up technologically when you're still 4-5 years behind.

Next up, our favorite home theater dullard will explain "dvd and AppleTV" to the masses:

http://www.roughlydrafted.com/RD/RDM.Tech.Q1.07/3385E036-2B56-4364-8EB7-479C34AB0F22.html

He's in a tough situation, though, not having any actual experience with the things we've taken for granted, you know, like a widescreen HDTV, connecting an actual Mac to an HDTV (rather than merely an aTV to old CRT) and using Apple dvd player, or even using a progressive dvd player, let alone an upscaling dvd player, with same. Can he read the past 4 years of the AVS dvd player forum and synthesize it in the next few days?

> [Quote form linked article:]
> Apple is not going to add the older AC3 to iTunes downloads because AC3 is a fat,
> old audio format that is only suited to DVD, just as MPEG-2 is similarly an old and
> fat format on the video side.

AC3 is very much alive and is the standard for OTA HDTV broadcasts as well. It will be around for a very long time in current media. There's a definite need for support.


You're right that AC3 is here to stay for high bandwidth formats... But, while I don't agree with most of his articles (I used to have his blog in my RSS reader, but removed it after some of the ridiculous "logic" in the iPhone articles, and others that are uninformed, untested/researched, or just plain silly), he does have a point here..

Apple is trying to do create the best Internet based media services. This requires new, more efficient technologies because of the bandwidth limitations. They went with H.264, which has huge advantages over MPEG2 used in broadcast ATSC, allowing them to transfer HD video with reasonable transfer times and storage requirements.

Just tacking on an AC3 audio track would add way too much to the file size, impacting the ability to stream and store videos. They really need a more efficient multichannel audio option -- but, going back to dolby pro logic analog encoding pseudo surround is certainly not the answer.

In their HD trailers, Apple used 5.1 AAC channels for their surround sound. The problem with this is that you need 6 audio output channels and a six channel input to your receiver. OR, you need an audio chip capable of real-time DD/DTS encoding to send it over an S/PDIF digital audio output.

So, Apple is in a bit of a bind here. I'm surprised they didn't include a better audio chip that could do surround encoding with the AppleTV. (I read through the spec's of the realtek audio chip they used, and it can handle up to 10 audio channels, but made no mention of any support for AC3 or DTS encoding.) Without that, their options are much more limited.

Count me in as the average sub-audiophile. I think a GREAT majority do not even know that they are NOT getting 5.1 sound, and that they need to have a receiver to get the full surround sound.

As long as it sounds good and the bass is loud enough the average DVD watcher will enjoy it. And i think Apple knows this thats why they are not yet into going FULLY Surround yet.

I dont have a receiver, and just have probably a 4.1 system (1 subwoofer, 2 front and 2 rear satellites), and i am extremely happy with my setup. I am more concerned with the quality of the picture i get.


I would rather have a better picture too. If I were to put one of these in my bedroom I wouldn't care about the 5.1 because it would be hooked up straight to my tv. In there I wouldn't want 5.1 Since I would want one in my living room too I have a surround sound system hooked up so I would want 5.1 in there.

[QUOTE=Joseph S]In their HD trailers, Apple used 5.1 AAC channels for their surround sound. The problem with this is that you need 6 audio output channels and a six channel input to your receiver. OR, you need an audio chip capable of real-time DD/DTS encoding to send it over an S/PDIF digital audio output.

So, if this is true, does anyone here think this will be Apple's future direction for HD downloads? And if so, does this mean that we ideally should be purchasing A/V Receivers capable of 6:1 or 7:1 surround sound? (We currently have a low cost, Pioneer VSX-912K 6:1 Receiver)

...It seems to me that Daniel Eran is pretty good at writing about business, marketing and competetive strategies in the computer industry, and perhaps he is better at this than accurately communicating his thoughts on the various technologies. And I must confess that I've regularly found fault with the accuracy and facts of some information he's cited and consequently, occasional flaws in some of his conclusions. Twice, I even have written him to correct some misstatements about technology.

He's certainly prolific, but I also know first hand just how long it really takes to research and write technology articles, and his detailed, weekly musings do seem to be published just a little too often to believe that he's engaging in an exhaustive level of professional fact-checking and proofreading.

So, I do understand why some of you might bristle at some of his writings.

Still, he often raises some cogent points about the industry, and he seems to have access to a lot of colorful background information on the evolution of various products, though he seldom cites the sources (and he should be doing this). This color make his essays more interesting than the average blogger.

Hey, every item posted on this Web forum (some of mine included) may not be 100% accurate or clearly stated either. I know they all should be, but we all have a limited amount of time...One Golden Rule for the Internet can be hard to follow: "Never take what you read on the Web as a personal affront."

Sometimes I get the feeling that Eran is really writing a book on the great PC wars (from a Mac viewpoint) and is just using his articles as "Rough Drafts" and all the comments he receives as fact checking and background research. A lot cheaper way to write a book than doing it the traditional way. :rolleyes: Pretty tricky, if you think about it.

Theres no place in the US where its legal to drive faster than 70MPH

Michigan's is 75...

Michigan's is 75...

Here's a quarter... now go buy a sarcasm detector off of ebay... :)

Mike