Wow this war is funny. BD fans dogpile on HDDVD fans, HDDVD fans angry at Universal and the world. BD fans declaring HDDVD dead in a few months.

Now BD fans actually complaining in the BD forum? say it aint so! They have been riding high for awhile now, and the mood is a little darker in the BD camp.

I own both an HDDVD and a PS3, but I must admit a bit of glee to see the "HDDVD is dead in 3 months" big mouths take a morale hit.

REPOSTED FOR YOUR PLEASURE

I was very happy when Blu-ray started to pull a lead but the following factors have annoyed me a bit lately and it looks like the war is getting level again.

- Fox's shedule withdrawal
- Warner favouring HD-DVD
- No big big movies announced lately
- Lack of IME titles

Whats happening, this needs to be sorted if Blu-ray is gonna get anywhere.

Blu-ray is a dead format. Retailers will stop carrying Blu-ray in 2008 since HD DVD has already won. In fact, HD DVD will take over standard DVD in three years. :P

IMHO this war is a figment of our imaginations. The mass market still considers HD DVD/BD as fringe, bleeding edge, early adopter technologies, and that's IF they even know about it.

Until either format has gained any kind of traction in the mass market, then we can call it a war. Until then, this war is just endless, boring, uninformative message board nonsense.

Thats my thinking.

I was just never convinced that HDDVD was dying. My view has always been its still a tug of war. I never once said HDDVD won the war either.

I think we are dealing with exprectations\perceptions vs reality.

My PS3 buddies were in shock when I bought the HDDVD add on for the 360. The shock was the same "You have a PS3, you dont need a dying format"

Sheesh!

IMHO this war is a figment of our imaginations. The mass market still considers HD DVD/BD as fringe, bleeding edge, early adopter technologies, and that's IF they even know about it.

Until either format has gained any kind of traction in the mass market, then we can call it a war. Until then, this war is just endless, boring, uninformative message board nonsense.

Of course you are correct. But let us have our little fun watching those guys eat their own :eek:

IMHO this war is a figment of our imaginations. The mass market still considers HD DVD/BD as fringe, bleeding edge, early adopter technologies, and that's IF they even know about it.

Until either format has gained any kind of traction in the mass market, then we can call it a war. Until then, this war is just endless, boring, uninformative message board nonsense.

QFT.

If we must use the analogy of a "war" for these formats.... Then the soldiers are barely coming on the battlefield and the most powerful "shot" fired from either side yet is the flicking of a couple of boogers.

QFT.

If we must use the analogy of a "war" for these formats.... Then the soldiers are barely coming on the battlefield and the most powerful "shot" fired from either side yet is the flicking of a couple of boogers.

HAHA man thats funny! :D

Correct me if I'm wrong, but wasn't the PS3 a fairly large salvo?

Jim

^ Nah, More like a UAV drone passing overhead. :)

True. In the end, it's about content, not the players.

Jim

Casino Royale sold 100,000 units several months faster than the first DVD did. That's nothing to sneeze at.

Casino Royale sold 100,000 units several months faster than the first DVD did. That's nothing to sneeze at.

Nice try, it SHIPPED 100,000 units.


Good lord!

Nice attempted thread hijack, 0 out 10 rating :D

Casino Royale sold 100,000 units several months faster than the first DVD did. That's nothing to sneeze at.

Did they actually sell 100,000 units, or, ship 100,000 units. Either way, pretty good numbers, so early.

Did they actually sell 100,000 units, or, ship 100,000 units. Either way, pretty good numbers, so early.

It's not good from a movie distributor looking at it. They need more titles selling much more than this to get the studios excited.

PS3's Resistance: Fall of Man recently passed 1 million sold. It was THE shooter for the PS3 launch.

Even selling 100k units is about 5% of the PS3's owner base buying their biggest blu-ray movie title.

Did they actually sell 100,000 units, or, ship 100,000 units. Either way, pretty good numbers, so early.

http://slashdot.org/articles/07/03/27/161243.shtml

"Slashdot has already reported on the go-go sales for the 'Casino Royale' Blu-ray on Amazon, but now comes news that the same Blu-ray disc is the first high-def disc to ship 100,000 units within the United States. It took standard-def DVD eleven months to reach that retail milestone (in 1998 with 'Air Force One'), but with 'Royale,' the nine-month old Blu-ray format now has done it two months faster."

http://commanderbond.net/article/4198

CBn earlier reported that the region 1 DVD release of Casino Royale had continued the success started in theaters, with the film going to the top of the sales and rental charts. According to a report from SuperHeroHype, the Blu-ray release is setting records of its own.

The Blu-ray edition of Daniel Craig’s debut James Bond film has already sold more than 100,000 units and is breaking records for the greatest number of high-definition copies sold in one day, said SPHE Worldwide President, David Bishop.

‘As a point of comparison, the first DVD title to ship 100,000 units took approximately 11 months (Air Force One in early 1998),’ said Bishop. ‘Casino Royale on Blu-ray has done it in far less time and is clearly demonstrating the format’s robust growth in the marketplace.’

Director Martin Campbell was equally impressed, and commented ‘It’s just unbelievable. Clearly, it’s fantastic. The comparison between standard def DVD and Blu-ray is quite stunning and quite transparent to the master. It’s precisely what would make me want to buy a copy.’

http://www.tgdaily.com/content/view/31381/97/

Sony has announced that over 100,000 Blu-ray Discs (BDs) of Casino Royale have shipped, making it the first high definition movie release to reach the six-digit milestone.

Casino Royale, one of the most anticipated BD releases to date, also helped to bring total disc sales to over one million units. According to Sony, about 50% of the 100,000 copies of the 007 film have actually been sold to consumers.

The shipment milestone beats DVD, which took 11 months to reach the same level. Casino Royale on BD, which has no exclusive bonus features, also became the first high definition disc to make it to Amazon.com's top-selling DVD list, according to Sony Pictures Home Entertainment president David Bishop.

I wonder how many months it will be before they will actual need to ship more into the retail chain. ;)

Nice try, it SHIPPED 100,000 units.


Good lord!

Nice attempted thread hijack, 0 out 10 rating :D

According to another thread, BB is shipping most of them back!

Nice try, it SHIPPED 100,000 units.


Good lord!

Nice attempted thread hijack, 0 out 10 rating :D

And where is the HD-DVD that has shipped 100,000 units?

100,000 is 100,000 - thats how many Sony sold to retailers...those are sales on the bottom line at Sony.

HD DVD fan or not, you need to be honest and say it doesnt look terribly bright from a content standpoint over the long run...you can have all the catalog titles (on either format), its the day and date new releases that will drive these formats.

Many may not have 'bought' Casino Royale, but I am sure many rented it. With 2.5 M PS3's now in homes (likley 10x's the HDDVD base) and that number likely to increase quickly as the game catalog gets a few more blockbuster games...I cant say I would be rolling the dice with an HD DVD player purchase if I was a normal consumer.

And where is the HD-DVD that has shipped 100,000 units?

The Matrix hasn't been released yet. :D

Until then, this war is just endless, boring, uninformative message board nonsense.
Well, it's endless and sometimes uninformative, but it's usually not boring! :)

100,000 is 100,000 - thats how many Sony sold to retailers...those are sales on the bottom line at Sony.

HD DVD fan or not, you need to be honest and say it doesnt look terribly bright from a content standpoint over the long run...you can have all the catalog titles (on either format), its the day and date new releases that will drive these formats.

Many may not have 'bought' Casino Royale, but I am sure many rented it. With 2.5 M PS3's now in homes (likley 10x's the HDDVD base) and that number likely to increase quickly as the game catalog gets a few more blockbuster games...I cant say I would be rolling the dice with an HD DVD player purchase if I was a normal consumer.

There ARE no more blockbuster games. Please, enlighten me as to what they are.

I could ship a million of anything....what good is it if it isn't selling?

There ARE no more blockbuster games. Please, enlighten me as to what they are.


Ouch!!! That one had to hurt! :D

Blu-ray is a dead format. Retailers will stop carrying Blu-ray in 2008 since HD DVD has already won. In fact, HD DVD will take over standard DVD in three years. :P

Wow, what parallel universe do you and your HDDVD player live in?

I've got a few $1 dollar bills I can sell you for $10 piece ;)

Stir that kool-aid a little better next time...

And where is the HD-DVD that has shipped 100,000 units?

Batman Begins sold 43,000. Who gives a flying F what is being *shipped.*

Matrix will pre-sell 100k since every HD DVD owner is getting geared up. HD DVD owners buy their players with the intent to buy software. Most BD owners are gamers who will occasionally buy something. Big difference. You have to be serious to own HD DVD.

There ARE no more blockbuster games. Please, enlighten me as to what they are.


Wow, all you guys are grasping at whatever you can...its almost embarassing

Do you follow the gaming industry at all??

Outside of exlcusive titles such as Metal Gear Solid 4, Grand Turismo HD, Lair, Ratchet & Clank, Socom and other propiertary Sony franchises, virtually any XBOX 360 game outside of MS produced Halo or Gears of War will be on both formats.

Not to mention games no one has seen yet. Gears of War did not exist and move millions of 360's prior to this year.

This is not a video game thread, so I will leave it at that...

I could ship a million of anything....what good is it if it isn't selling?

yeah smart guy, no you couldn't. stores buy based on what they think they'll sell. so if stores bought 100,000, then that means they think 100,000 will sell in a reasonable time frame.

and, if they sold over 50,000 the first week to customers out of that 100,000, then by now they've probably sold over 80,000 to customers, or more. the 100,000 mark sold to customers will be long passed by the end of april. meanwhile hd-dvd is selling like 10,000 TOTAL COPIES a week on a good week.

^^Exactly, shipped means sold to Sony in these instances...

I dont know how you guys can argue that if you understand the business.

My guess is the Pirates franchise does well more than 100,000 come May 22 and really makes a statement.

In terms you may understand - you go to Buffalo Wild Wings and order a plate of 50 wings...those are sold, you paid for them, you dont need to eat them all, but if you dont, its your respoinsiblilty to find someone to eat them or throw them out for you.

HD DVD fan or not, you need to be honest and say it doesnt look terribly bright from a content standpoint

I've said this several times already, but it bears worth repeating. Right now, things look GREAT for HD DVD. HD DVD weathered the Blu-ray storm. Blu-ray threw everything they had - 2.5 MM PS3's, CES2007, CEO's from the studios proclaiming victory, release schedule, Casino Royale, discounts and sales - and the end result is that YTD they have maybe 2.5:1 sales lead and a couple of stellar weeks when CR was released and there was a big sale. Bottom Line: That's all Blu-rays' got. They don't have a CR every month, they can't keep running sales to dump their discs because it isn't fooling anyone. They did everything they could, and now HD DVD has a release schedule, The Martrix, and a bunch of cheapo players down the pike. As of this moment, it isn't even certain that Blu-ray will sell more in April than HD DVD, and this is with a TEN-to-one install advantage. The European launch won't help much since there are only 10% as many HDTV's in Europe as the US. This is it - this is as good as Blu-ray gets - maybe they sell a million more PS3's, but so what, if HD DVD sells a few hundred thousand $129 players, they wipe them away. AACS is cracked so Fox has cold feet, and figures they don't want to be a guinea pig anymore, and who can blame them - they expected way better than this. So right now, HD DVD is FLYING HIGH.

And I always love your 'BluRay threw everything they could at them' comment...what?

PS3 came out late, and with low supply, Casino Royale was the 1st of many forthcoming big name titles, PS3 seems to be #1 in Japan. Australia and European countires already, and counting, they will wlikely be within $100 of the cheapest HD DVD palyer by xmas and they have 85% studio support and 90% consumer electronics support.

But in all due respect, its content and I am not sure how high HD DVD is flying with the Good Shepard being the biggest exclusive new release and the Matrix catalog coming out a couple months earlier on HDDVD vs Blu Ray.

Name big name new releases that will be EXLCUSIVE to HD DVD this year that are coming up (and I dont want stuff about IF studios go neutral, because they have not)...?

And I always love your 'BluRay threw everything they could at them' comment...what?

PS3 came out late, and with low supply, Casino Royale was the 1st of many forthcoming big name titles, PS3 seems to be #1 in Japan. Australia and European countires already, and counting, they will wlikely be within $100 of the cheapest HD DVD palyer by xmas and they have 85% studio support and 90% consumer electronics support.

But in all due respect, its content and I am not sure how high HD DVD is flying with the Good Shepard being the biggest exclusive new release and the Matrix catalog coming out a couple months earlier on HDDVD vs Blu Ray.

Name big name new releases that will be EXLCUSIVE to HD DVD this year that are coming up (and I dont want stuff about IF studios go neutral, because they have not)...?

If all that is true, what is your obsession with spending all this time and effort in thread after thread in the HD-DVD forum attacking what you believe is a dead format?

PS3 came out late, and with low supply

So then you admit it's been a letdown.

Casino Royale was the 1st of many forthcoming big name titles,

Nothing will be as big as CR because the other action blockbusters are already on DVD.


PS3 seems to be #1 in Japan. Australia and European countires already, and counting,

It doesn't matter how many PS3's there are. All that matters is how many BD's they sell, and it won't be enough, based on the Blu-ray YTD sales figures.

they will wlikely be within $100 of the cheapest HD DVD palyer

The difference between a $129 player and a $229 player is massive in terms of sales.

they have 85% studio support and 90% consumer electronics support.

Just a talking point. HD DVD is putting out a release schedule that is strong enough compared to Blu-ray.

And I always love your 'BluRay threw everything they could at them' comment...what?

PS3 came out late, and with low supply, Casino Royale was the 1st of many forthcoming big name titles, PS3 seems to be #1 in Japan. Australia and European countires already, and counting, they will wlikely be within $100 of the cheapest HD DVD palyer by xmas and they have 85% studio support and 90% consumer electronics support.

But in all due respect, its content and I am not sure how high HD DVD is flying with the Good Shepard being the biggest exclusive new release and the Matrix catalog coming out a couple months earlier on HDDVD vs Blu Ray.

Name big name new releases that will be EXLCUSIVE to HD DVD this year that are coming up (and I dont want stuff about IF studios go neutral, because they have not)...?

Have you ever heard of this movie called children of men? It's the number 1 hi-def title on amazon. It's not out on blu-ray.

And the matrix will sell hd-dvd players. People will see it's available on hd-dvd and not blu-ray. A couple months my ass. It took them at least 6 months just to release enter the dragon on blu-ray. How many hd-dvd players do you think the matrix will sell in 6 months, especially when the chinese players come out? This is a rhetorical question, because with your fan boy delusions your answer is likely 0.

The ps3 was delayed. Puhlease. Because of blu-ray. They had another year to make something and it has nothing on the 360. Low supply? Why are they sitting on shelves now?

Why are UK ps3's not selling on ebay at all? Because they cost too much.

Nice try though go back to the blu-ray forum.

Originally Posted by MidnightWatcher
Blu-ray is a dead format. Retailers will stop carrying Blu-ray in 2008 since HD DVD has already won. In fact, HD DVD will take over standard DVD in three years. :P



Wow, what parallel universe do you and your HDDVD player live in?

I've got a few $1 dollar bills I can sell you for $10 piece ;)

Stir that kool-aid a little better next time...


MidnightWatcher is simply quoting two recent BDA predictions about HD DVD but of course substituting HD DVD for Blu Ray and vise versa.

Nice try though, please go back to the blu-ray forum.

BD fanboy's are bored virtually making out with each other over Casino Royale, so they have to come in here to find intelligent discourse.

Do you follow the gaming industry at all??

I don't....that's why I bought an hd dvd player. ;)

BD fanboy's are bored virtually making out with each other over Casino Royale, so they have to come in here to find intelligent discourse.

:D :D :D

BD fanboy's are bored virtually making out with each other over Casino Royale, so they have to come in here to find intelligent discourse.

I guess curing cancer by buying a PS3 isn't enough for them...

http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,231365,00.html

BD fanboy's are bored virtually making out with each other over Casino Royale, so they have to come in here to find intelligent discourse.
You are goooood...no...baaaad! :D :D :D

BD fanboy's are bored virtually making out with each other over Casino Royale, so they have to come in here to find intelligent discourse.


I'm sorry....I am laughing to the point of shedding tears over this one. Great post. :eek: :D

Here's an idea: BD fans stay in their forums, HDDVD fans stay in ours. What is so difficult about that? Why do so many of you feel the need to stir the pot? If you want to frequent the HDDVD forums (or vis versa) save your posts for constructive ones. I'm going to start reporting all of these bickering threads, because they are not conforming to the forum rules. That's a lame thing to have to do, but all of this pointless bickering has got to stop.

Sony ships 100,000 units so they can make false claims, supported by blu only drinkers that it sold 100,000 units. Sony should have shipped 1,000,000 units and blu only fanatics would have claimed the greatest victory in dvd history. I guess the more fuel for FUD the better.

http://slashdot.org/articles/07/03/27/161243.shtml

"Slashdot has already reported on the go-go sales for the 'Casino Royale' Blu-ray on Amazon, but now comes news that the same Blu-ray disc is the first high-def disc to ship 100,000 units within the United States. It took standard-def DVD eleven months to reach that retail milestone (in 1998 with 'Air Force One'), but with 'Royale,' the nine-month old Blu-ray format now has done it two months faster."

http://commanderbond.net/article/4198

CBn earlier reported that the region 1 DVD release of Casino Royale had continued the success started in theaters, with the film going to the top of the sales and rental charts. According to a report from SuperHeroHype, the Blu-ray release is setting records of its own.

The Blu-ray edition of Daniel Craig’s debut James Bond film has already sold more than 100,000 units and is breaking records for the greatest number of high-definition copies sold in one day, said SPHE Worldwide President, David Bishop.

‘As a point of comparison, the first DVD title to ship 100,000 units took approximately 11 months (Air Force One in early 1998),’ said Bishop. ‘Casino Royale on Blu-ray has done it in far less time and is clearly demonstrating the format’s robust growth in the marketplace.’

Director Martin Campbell was equally impressed, and commented ‘It’s just unbelievable. Clearly, it’s fantastic. The comparison between standard def DVD and Blu-ray is quite stunning and quite transparent to the master. It’s precisely what would make me want to buy a copy.’

http://www.tgdaily.com/content/view/31381/97/

Sony has announced that over 100,000 Blu-ray Discs (BDs) of Casino Royale have shipped, making it the first high definition movie release to reach the six-digit milestone.

Casino Royale, one of the most anticipated BD releases to date, also helped to bring total disc sales to over one million units. According to Sony, about 50% of the 100,000 copies of the 007 film have actually been sold to consumers.

The shipment milestone beats DVD, which took 11 months to reach the same level. Casino Royale on BD, which has no exclusive bonus features, also became the first high definition disc to make it to Amazon.com's top-selling DVD list, according to Sony Pictures Home Entertainment president David Bishop.

Master of BD fanatics(or is it beatboy) is at it again(cut and paste). He already posted this spiel in another thread. Dude change the record!!! Brow beating people into buying Blu is not going to work. ;)

^^Exactly, shipped means sold to Sony in these instances...

I dont know how you guys can argue that if you understand the business.

My guess is the Pirates franchise does well more than 100,000 come May 22 and really makes a statement.

In terms you may understand - you go to Buffalo Wild Wings and order a plate of 50 wings...those are sold, you paid for them, you dont need to eat them all, but if you dont, its your respoinsiblilty to find someone to eat them or throw them out for you.

GBFreek, I guess you don't know how the retail media business works. Yes, shipped means sold to the retailers. But any unsold units, that are still sealed, can be returned for credit to the next purchase. So any unsold units that are sitting in retailers warehouses in 60 days are usually shipped back to the manufacturer and minimum levels are maintained.

So your Buffalo Wild Wings analogy is not correct.

The true number of units sold will not be known for 2 to 3 months.

So again, 100,000 units shipped is not 100,000 units sold.

[QUOTE=GBFreek]Wow, all you guys are grasping at whatever you can...its almost embarassing

Do you follow the gaming industry at all??

Outside of exlcusive titles such as Metal Gear Solid 4, Grand Turismo HD, Lair, Ratchet & Clank, Socom and other propiertary Sony franchises, virtually any XBOX 360 game outside of MS produced Halo or Gears of War will be on both formats.

Not to mention games no one has seen yet. Gears of War did not exist and move millions of 360's prior to this year.

This is not a video game thread, so I will leave it at that...[/QUOTE

Oh gee, your right, all those MS games like Dead Rising,Bioshock,Project Sylph,Too Human,Blue Dragon.

Shall I go on? I can if you wish.

I gotta say one thing.

Why is it that every movie made before lets say 2000 is dismissed by the BD club? It's as if they are saying people ONLY give a crap about up and coming blockbusters.

It's always "Those Universal back titles suck, everyone wants Pirates"

Well I have to strongly disagree. Most people I talk to that dont have hi def perk up at the mention of Jaws,Jurassic Park,Back to the Future,etc. etc.

I think it's a bad move to discount the oldies!

I've said this several times already, but it bears worth repeating. Right now, things look GREAT for HD DVD. HD DVD weathered the Blu-ray storm. Blu-ray threw everything they had - 2.5 MM PS3's, CES2007, CEO's from the studios proclaiming victory, release schedule, Casino Royale, discounts and sales - and the end result is that YTD they have maybe 2.5:1 sales lead and a couple of stellar weeks when CR was released and there was a big sale. Bottom Line: That's all Blu-rays' got. They don't have a CR every month, they can't keep running sales to dump their discs because it isn't fooling anyone. They did everything they could, and now HD DVD has a release schedule, The Martrix, and a bunch of cheapo players down the pike. As of this moment, it isn't even certain that Blu-ray will sell more in April than HD DVD, and this is with a TEN-to-one install advantage. The European launch won't help much since there are only 10% as many HDTV's in Europe as the US. This is it - this is as good as Blu-ray gets - maybe they sell a million more PS3's, but so what, if HD DVD sells a few hundred thousand $129 players, they wipe them away. AACS is cracked so Fox has cold feet, and figures they don't want to be a guinea pig anymore, and who can blame them - they expected way better than this. So right now, HD DVD is FLYING HIGH.


this may be the most ridiculous post i have read on these forums in a while and that is saying something..please look up the word perspective in the dictionary relative to what you have written here

^ Lampert actually makes a few good arguments, while you have only made a "I'm smarter" argument.

He did miss one thing though, Pirates on blu ray. It is an entertaining movie, don't get me wrong, but one can only stand to watch so much of Jack sparrow every few months. :p

I own both on dvd, and trust me, I am in NO RUSH to get the HD versions, It's more like a rental imho. :)

this may be the most ridiculous post i have read on these forums in a while and that is saying something..please look up the word perspective in the dictionary relative to what you have written here

Judging by the amount of pro PD posts, and HDDVD dissing you have done, what pray tell might YOUR perspective be? :rolleyes:

PS3's Resistance: Fall of Man recently passed 1 million sold. It was THE shooter for the PS3 launch.


and ONLY shooter for the ps3. and did you see the article on the Australia launch party? no one showed up

Did the argument end or are you guys just reloading?

*crickets chirping*

Wow, all you guys are grasping at whatever you can...its almost embarassing

Do you follow the gaming industry at all??

Outside of exlcusive titles such as Metal Gear Solid 4, Grand Turismo HD, Lair, Ratchet & Clank, Socom and other propiertary Sony franchises, virtually any XBOX 360 game outside of MS produced Halo or Gears of War will be on both formats.

Not to mention games no one has seen yet. Gears of War did not exist and move millions of 360's prior to this year.

This is not a video game thread, so I will leave it at that...

Grand Turismo HD, Lair, Ratchet & Clank, etc. are hardly the "killer apps" the PS3 needs compared to Gears of War and Halo. Sony has lost exclusivity to major games such as Grand Theft Auto 4, Assassin's Creed, and potentially (as per 1up.com) Metal Gear Solid and Devil May Cry. That leaves Grand Turismo, Ratchet & Clank, and a completely unproven game, Lair. Hardly games justifying a 700 dollar purchase.

Xbox 360 will also be including "games no one has seen yet" as well. ;)

and ONLY shooter for the ps3. and did you see the article on the Australia launch party? no one showed up

Yup, I did see it.

But the longer the PS3 crowd has no decent games, the longer they'll be trolling in the HD-DVD forums.

Master of BD fanatics(or is it beatboy) is at it again(cut and paste). He already posted this spiel in another thread. Dude change the record!!! Brow beating people into buying Blu is not going to work. ;)

speak for yourself.

most of you in here are Extreme fanboys too.


I want blu ray to win cuz. they have content now. I dont want to wait.

I still buy HD DVDs, If HD DVD had the support of the Studios, I would Want them to win.


Take it at face value.

if it looks like a duck, and it walks like a duck. it probably is winning the war.

:D GBFreek, I guess you don't know how the retail media business works. Yes, shipped means sold to the retailers. But any unsold units, that are still sealed, can be returned for credit to the next purchase. So any unsold units that are sitting in retailers warehouses in 60 days are usually shipped back to the manufacturer and minimum levels are maintained.

So your Buffalo Wild Wings analogy is not correct.

The true number of units sold will not be known for 2 to 3 months.

So again, 100,000 units shipped is not 100,000 units sold.


HA!!! (smack) Thanx Dennis. Thats exactly what I was sayin to him. :D :D

speak for yourself.

most of you in here are Extreme fanboys too.


I want blu ray to win cuz. they have content now. I dont want to wait.

I still buy HD DVDs, If HD DVD had the support of the Studios, I would Want them to win.


Take it at face value.

if it looks like a duck, and it walks like a duck. it probably is winning the war.

No, not all fanboys are the same. Some always stick out more than others. Waving arms, posting a million bar charts, and screaming like little girls.

lol, It makes me laugh how HD DVD'ers take apart anything good in the BD-verse.

No, not all fanboys are the same. Some always stick out more than others. Waving arms, posting a million bar charts, and screaming like little girls.

now that I agree with you. that is retarded.

Wow, all you guys are grasping at whatever you can...its almost embarassing

Do you follow the gaming industry at all??

Outside of exlcusive titles such as Metal Gear Solid 4, Grand Turismo HD, Lair, Ratchet & Clank, Socom and other propiertary Sony franchises, virtually any XBOX 360 game outside of MS produced Halo or Gears of War will be on both formats.

Not to mention games no one has seen yet. Gears of War did not exist and move millions of 360's prior to this year.

This is not a video game thread, so I will leave it at that...

Sorry have to call you out on this Dead Rising and Lost Planet (both made by Capcom) are 360 exclusive. Also your whole point is moot the fact alot of games are on both is because developers saw the lack luster sale of the ps3 and jumps ship eg: VF 5, Devil May Cry 4, etc. You think after poor sales these same companies would still release to a dying format/game system now who's grasping?

Everyone knows this war is heating up, but everyone also knows the winner is gonna be the one that gets a player down below 200 bux, and right now that looks to be hddvd. Lets not forget, even though these guys love the deal they got on the PS3(im one too, dual format for me), Sony is taking a bath on them from a profit standpoint. Sony is showing losses in q1 of this year. And reports of player only install base is dismal. I wonder how all the manufactures feel who signed on to build machines feel about their dismal sales. I can see samsung producing HDDVD machines soon.

http://www.infoworld.com/article/07/01/30/HNsonyprofits_1.html

forgot the link

Sorry have to call you out on this Dead Rising and Lost Planet (both made by Capcom) are 360 exclusive. Also your whole point is moot the fact alot of games are on both is because developers saw the lack luster sale of the ps3 and jumps ship eg: VF 5, Devil May Cry 4, etc. You think after poor sales these same companies would still release to a dying format/game system now who's grasping?

Now now, I want to be fair.

PS3 is not a dead console by any stretch, it just started. I do believe Sony for the first time is no longer the lead horse in gaming, a position they are not used to, nor do they like. Will it be number one? at this point looks a bit grim, and might have to settle for second or third. I mean good god, Sony cant expect to win everything.

Now now, I want to be fair.

PS3 is not a dead console by any stretch, it just started. I do believe Sony for the first time is no longer the lead horse in gaming, a position they are not used to, nor do they like. Will it be number one? at this point looks a bit grim, and might have to settle for second or third. I mean good god, Sony cant expect to win everything.

Its not dead but its hurting.
http://gigagamez.com/2007/01/31/sonys-profits-down-5-games-division-to-blame/

I hope the PS3 sells a 100 million games to go with it's 3 million players. That way, the BR fans can play games and leave HD DVD fans the hell alone. Afterall, to act like they do here. They are just children anyway so games should keep them happy for a little while.

Hey, I can hope can't I!

Wow, all you guys are grasping at whatever you can...its almost embarassing

Do you follow the gaming industry at all??

Outside of exlcusive titles such as Metal Gear Solid 4, Grand Turismo HD, Lair, Ratchet & Clank, Socom and other propiertary Sony franchises, virtually any XBOX 360 game outside of MS produced Halo or Gears of War will be on both formats.

Not to mention games no one has seen yet. Gears of War did not exist and move millions of 360's prior to this year.

This is not a video game thread, so I will leave it at that...

It’s good that you have decided to leave it at that because the PS3 is failing. I’m not saying that the PS3 is going away, I’m not saying that the PS3 will lose Sony money, I’m not saying that the PS3 will even be a failure as a system, but it isn’t going to take the lead in the current generation of games systems. It also isn’t selling like gangbusters as Sony envisioned. I guess they missed the lessons of the Neo-Geo and the 3DO; that consumers are not willing to pay over $500 for a videogame system even if it has other uses. I think Sony would’ve done well to talk to Trip Hawkins prior to pricing the PS3.

On the topic of system exclusives you forgot to mention Mass Effect, Fable 2, Forza 2, Bioshock, Splinter Cell: Conviction, the GTA IV episodes and a bevy of other Xbox exclusives. It should also be noted that GoW was a known commodity for the 360 from inception just as MG4 for the PS3 has been a known since the PS3 was announced. The fact that Gears was a great, system selling game came as no surprise to Xbox supporters just like the release of MG4 will be no surprise to Sony supporters. I’m sure Metal Gear 4 will be a great game and I’m looking forward to Warhawk 2 as well, but half a dozen good, exclusive games are not enough to move a $500 game system when it’s sitting next to a $300 game system with twenty good, exclusive games.

What does any of this have to do with BR versus HD DVD? The PS3 will make it, but it won’t be the success that the PS2 was. That’s significant because the PS2 played a big part in the early success of DVD, just as the PSP has played a role in the early lack of success of UMD. Sony has tried over and over to combine the launch of a new game system with the launch of a new format. Historically it has worked when Sony had the most technologically advanced system on the market at a price equal or less than the competition as was the case with the PS2. Historically that tactic has failed when coupled with a system that is significantly more expensive that the competition with out a significant technological edge such as the PSP. Since the 360 is equally as powerful as the PS3 (according to programmers that work on both) the PS3 has no real technological edge over the 360. It has a significant disadvantage in the number of system exclusives, an under-developed on-line experience and it certainly has no price advantage over the 360. That being the case it is going to take more than the PS3 for Sony to win the BD/HD DVD format war and they will be lucky if the PS3 doesn't hurt them in that regard.

Perhaps Sony will get things right with Blu-Ray and perhaps they can salvage a second place world-wide finish with the PS3. The PS3 and Blu-Ray may both make it, but it will be in spite of their relationship and not because of it. The PS3 will not dominate this generation of videogames the way the PS2 dominated the last and if Blu-Ray is ever to see the same level of universal acceptance that DVD has seen it is going to take a long, long time. To be honest neither HD DVD or Blu-Ray will even have the opportunity to match DVD on market penetration until HDTV matches SDTV in market penetration.

I hope the PS3 sells a 100 million games to go with it's 3 million players. That way, the BR fans can play games and leave HD DVD fans the hell alone. Afterall, to act like they do here. They are just children anyway so games should keep them happy for a little while.

Hey, I can hope can't I!

I hope they release 100 million games so I can have a better choice to choose from.

It’s good that you have decided to leave it at that because the PS3 is failing. I’m not saying that the PS3 is going away, I’m not saying that the PS3 will lose Sony money, I’m not saying that the PS3 will even be a failure as a system, but it isn’t going to take the lead in the current generation of games systems. It also isn’t selling like gangbusters as Sony envisioned. I guess they missed the lessons of the Neo-Geo and the 3DO; that consumers are not willing to pay over $500 for a videogame system even if it has other uses. I think Sony would’ve done well to talk to Trip Hawkins prior to pricing the PS3.

On the topic of system exclusives you forgot to mention Mass Effect, Fable 2, Forza 2, Bioshock, Splinter Cell: Conviction, the GTA IV episodes and a bevy of other Xbox exclusives. It should also be noted that GoW was a known commodity for the 360 from inception just as MG4 for the PS3 has been a known since the PS3 was announced. The fact that Gears was a great, system selling game came as no surprise to Xbox supporters just like the release of MG4 will be no surprise to Sony supporters. I’m sure Metal Gear 4 will be a great game and I’m looking forward to Warhawk 2 as well, but half a dozen good, exclusive games are not enough to move a $500 game system when it’s sitting next to a $300 game system with twenty good, exclusive games.

What does any of this have to do with BR versus HD DVD? The PS3 will make it, but it won’t be the success that the PS2 was. That’s significant because the PS2 played a big part in the early success of DVD, just as the PSP has played a role in the early lack of success of UMD. Sony has tried over and over to combine the launch of a new game system with the launch of a new format. Historically it has worked when Sony had the most technologically advanced system on the market at a price equal or less than the competition as was the case with the PS2. Historically that tactic has failed when coupled with a system that is significantly more expensive that the competition with out a significant technological edge such as the PSP. Since the 360 is equally as powerful as the PS3 (according to programmers that work on both) the PS3 has no real technological edge over the 360. It has a significant disadvantage in the number of system exclusives, an under-developed on-line experience and it certainly has no price advantage over the 360. That being the case it is going to take more than the PS3 for Sony to win the BD/HD DVD format war and they will be lucky if the PS3 doesn't hurt them in that regard.

Perhaps Sony will get things right with Blu-Ray and perhaps they can salvage a second place world-wide finish with the PS3. The PS3 and Blu-Ray may both make it, but it will be in spite of their relationship and not because of it. The PS3 will not dominate this generation of videogames the way the PS2 dominated the last and if Blu-Ray is ever to see the same level of universal acceptance that DVD has seen it is going to take a long, long time. To be honest neither HD DVD or Blu-Ray will even have the opportunity to match DVD on market penetration until HDTV matches SDTV in market penetration.

Excellent post. Regarding your thoughts about SDTV VS HDTV, I think the storm is coming. Satellite companies are moving to mpeg 4 only receivers, news studios and TV studios are starting to really push hd tv as an advantage to other studios. With HDTV's dropping in the price of 1500 bux for a 50 inch plasma its almost hard not to see many people moving away from that 36 inch tube and making the jump into HD.

Excellent post. Regarding your thoughts about SDTV VS HDTV, I think the storm is coming. Satellite companies are moving to mpeg 4 only receivers, news studios and TV studios are starting to really push hd tv as an advantage to other studios. With HDTV's dropping in the price of 1500 bux for a 50 inch plasma its almost hard not to see many people moving away from that 36 inch tube and making the jump into HD.

You’re too kind. I do see the momentum moving towards HD and that will only be good for gamers and film-lovers. I just purchased my first HDTV in December, but the moment I tasted HD I wanted more HD content.

I think I am actually representative of the legendary Joe Six pack in that regard; Joe buys an HDTV and now Joe wants an economical way to enjoy content on his HDTV. Normally Joe will progress from cheapest to most expensive in his quest for content. He integrates what he has (Mac/PC, game system), then he gets an antenna and perhaps an HD package from his Satellite/Cable Company and then he will start thinking about his movies. He will probably buy an up-converting DVD player first, but if there is an HD DVD/Blu-Ray option available for less than $300 he may go for that instead.

For me the $199 price-tag on the 360 add-on was a no brainer since a good up-converting DVD player costs about $150 and doesn’t include a copy of King Kong or a remote that works with my 360. J6P probably won’t have a 360, but a $300 Toshiba HD DVD player or a $200 Chinese HD DVD player might attract his attention. I think both of those are possible for HD DVD before Thanksgiving this year and if Sony isn’t liberal with the subsidies they won’t have a Blu-Ray player available in that price range. That will work to the advantage of HD DVD, but only if Sony’s marketing hype doesn’t distract J6P first.

I am on the side of HDDVD but they better come out with a HDDVD writer soon or Blur-Ray will increase its lead because they already of some writers.

Priceless thread!

This one should be a sticky and labeld "HD Format war arguments 101".

Who cares as long as one of them sticks around!

As someone who got into HD through the xbox360 addon route I know that the most important factor for me was price. I was able to get a 360 for my kids for christmas and the addon for Myself and my wife. I would only buy a BD player if it cost 200euro or less. The PS3 costs 630euro here in Ireland and the only standalone BD player I can find locally around 1500euro Both of these are well out of our price range. I guess that make me a JP6 and proud of it.

As irritating as they sometimes are, I must admit the Blu-ray trolls and PS3 FANatics raiding the HD DVD forums are occasionally good for a laugh. They have a gift for hyperbole and hate to be quoted when their rash predictions prove unfounded.

It's a genetic trait passed down from their father figures, the Sony execs, who are also prone to foot-in-mouth disease:

http://www.reghardware.co.uk/2007/03/28/ten_top_ps3_sony_quotes/

I have really only one beef with this whole 'war'. I love my A1 ,hickups,slowness and all but "convienient content availability" is bugging the crap out of me. I don't like havng to order movies online to get what i want. For example if i go to Walmart there are 5 HD DVD's and 10-15 BR's . I understand there have not been many HDDVD releases in the last few months but there are 230 movies available. Why stock 5? I go to Best buy and they have a good amount of the worst movies. They have about 60-70 (probably not even that) but my list of 'to buys' on the Tier 1 List goes unfullfilled every week. Why does it take BB 2-3 weeks after a release date to get the new movies on the shelves and then they seem to "miss" the hottest titles?(example still no Scorpion King) If i go to Circuit City i have to look through all the regular DVD's looking for little plastic boxes sticking up here and there, picking up each one to see the title only to find old crap again. I go to Target and they still have the same selection as the first day they started selling them.They are not the same ones though because they go out of stock and then they reorder the same stuff .HOW ABOUT THE NEW MOVIES!!!. I don't get it. It's getting old. I have bought 1 DVD and 2 HDDVD's all year.Yes i could order online,but i try to support the local buisnesses.Not because the actual buinesses are local but because the employees are local.

OK rant OFF ,flame suit ON

Glen

GAR,
Your bitch is not with 'the war" as you say but the inability of dinosaur B&Ms to market new products at anything above a 2 year-olds level of competence and commitment. Sorry for the slam on 2 year-olds.

Also I would not consider BB and CC as "local" businesses although your support of local people working in those stores is to be commended.

I too have tried to support stores that carry HD but the vast majority of the time it's a waste of effort. New releases not out on time or not enough stock to support demand or inflated prices or any other number of reasons.

I hate Wally World but I bought The Departed and COM there simply because they at least had copies on release day.

I bought NIN at a local 4 store music chain because they stocked it on release day and actually had a great price.

OK, all you guys are right, HD DVD is winning in every which way and thus, will dominate...

I have no problem with this mentatilty...if thats what you honestly believe, and, for example, if you had to bet your financial well being on HDDVD or Blu Ray, going all in or nothing, I will sit back and watch. Afterall, someone did think buying Enron stock was a great idea at one point in time.

Just to refute a few things, as I am not really a hardcore BluRay guy...I got my PS3 for gaming occasional and if HD DVD wins, great, the quicker the better. I, as most in this forum, probably dont have a problem doing that financially. I'll shell out $400 for a HDDVD player at lunch today if it means this crap war is over. I just want one to win...I dont own any BluRay discs...my family rents them...and as most educated, average consumers, at this point in time, tough to go against BluRay based on content...

On the PS3 -- You have to be very nearsighted to be calling the PS3 a failure already...yes, its had hiccups at launch, but so far, it is not drastically different from the first 6 months of 360's life. If 2.5 million worldwide in 4 months is a failure, then I guess I dont know what a failure is. Lost Planet is due on the PS3 at a later date To avoid a pissing match, I think the MS exlcusives and the Sony exlcusives will be a push when its all said and done - each having 5-10 killer titles you cant get on the other...so far, MS has the advantage in this area.

On Sales -- I am not a DVD buyer...I rent 98% of the movies we watch, as I believe a lot of consumers do...we purchase a select few titles. I think the rental trends at NetFlix, Blockbuster will be much more telling. Most of our family and friends have had SD DVD players for 5+ years and own under a dozen movies...I dont think the general public is much diff...

BluRay -- I simply dont know how you can refute the advantages it currently holds in support from studios, manufacturers, disc sales and now, the growing installed PS3 base - that will most certainly rent occasionaly discs. All you hear about from the hardcore HD DVD'ers is "if"...."if" may never come to fruition in terms of support.

Cheap Players -- These may or may not help HD DVD - personally, I think they may, but I think content will be the killer of HD DVD if it happens.

Content -- Yes, Children of Men is a great movie...but mostly for guys like us on this forum...thats not a huge mass market appeal film. Would I love to have Children of Men and Good Shepard on BluRay...certainly...but I'll take the BD exlcusives anyday, now and in the future.

Its Friday, so not trying to incite more flames...lets keep it real...

Sony predicted (and reaffirmed the prediction several times,) that it would sell 6 million PS3s by March. Is the fact that they will be lucky to get halfway there a failure? Is the fact that this far after the launch there is unsold inventory and PS3 sales are still lagging in third place behind Wii and the Xbox 360 a failure?

You are happy with the BD lineup? Great. I'm happy with the HD DVD lineup. Despite the much-ballyhooed studio support on the BD side, the total number of discs available now in each format is about the same and the number of announced titles for the rest of the year is about the same -- though with the Fox pullbacks HD DVD may be slightly ahead now.

This format war thing has swung back and forth a couple of times. HD DVD had the edge all last year. In January and February the CES boasts from BD, an accelerated release schedule and a couple of nice sales pushed BD to the front. Now HD DVD is getting its act together and the latest figures show the race tightening up.

I don't have a problem with anyone saying they prefer one format, one player or one movie over another. I do have a problem with the Sony execs and their cultlike minions in this forum declaring victory every other day based on press releases and temporary sales tics, meanwhile never missing an opportunity to turn every thread in the HD DVD forum into a childish mud-wrestling contest.

Best guess right now is that it takes 10 PS3's to generate the same software sales as one HD DVD player. So, no matter how may millions of PS3's sell, it probably is not enough. Even a Disney exec recently estimated 8.5 million PS3's and 2.5 million HD DVD players in a year's time (I think). But if that turns out to be true, HD DVD will blow away Blu-ray by a big order of magnitude. And that was a DISNEY exec stating those numbers, not an HD DVD supporter.

threads like this are great..... in increasing the length of my ingor list ;)

2:1 gets locked up before 5pm

^^Again, its not just about disc sales...8.5 to 2.5 MM is a BIG gap...I dont know why it is always assumed by Tosh guys that only 1 in 10 will do movies w/ the PS3...I think its simply wishful thinking...why would PS3 owners not at least rent BluRay movies? I dont get your logic...the industry is moving far far away from its just a video game player like the Sega Genesis. I repsect your opinion, but my guess is nearly 7/10 PS3 owners at least dabble in BluRay movies at the rental counter...

And the majority of those HD DVD drives are going to be XBOX add-ons...so, while a bit diff as its an opiton, the majority are still based on a gaming platform as you say.

...I dont know why it is always assumed by Tosh guys that only 1 in 10 will do movies w/ the PS3

Obviously, we're taking a best estimate approach here, there are variables that are difficult to quantify, but based on YTD sales, the Amazon rankings, common releases, etc., it appears that that is roughly the order of magnitude.

Sony has lost exclusivity to major games such as Grand Theft Auto 4, Assassin's Creed, and potentially (as per 1up.com) Metal Gear Solid and Devil May Cry.

To clarify, Devil May Cry 4 is CONFIRMED (http://www.gamespot.com/news/6167678.html), directly by Capcom, to be a simultaneous launch. MGS4 is currently a rumor, I'd personally give it a 30% chance of being a simultaneous release, probably 50% that it'll show up at some point.

Lost Planet is due on the PS3 at a later date

Capcom also confirmed earlier this week that there are ABSOLUTELY NO plans to EVER bring either Lost Planet or Dead Rising to the PS3 (http://www.gamespot.com/news/6168110.html).

you know dreamcast had 10million systems when PS2 came out, dreamcast had great games and had alot of hardcore gamer support. We all know what happend to that system.

Capcom also confirmed earlier this week that there are ABSOLUTELY NO plans to EVER bring either Lost Planet or Dead Rising to the PS3 (http://www.gamespot.com/news/6168110.html).

dead rising is an old game, lost planet is a terrible game. who would want them? hopefullyfor capcom's sake the sequels will be much improved when they're released on the ps3.

dead rising is an old game, lost planet is a terrible game. who would want them? hopefullyfor capcom's sake the sequels will be much improved when they're released on the ps3.

I guess you would need to ask the one million people that purchased copies of each game why they wanted them.

I dont own any BluRay discs...my family rents them...and as most educated, average consumers, at this point in time, tough to go against BluRay based on content...


How is it tough to compare content against Blu-ray, both almost identical in there amount of releases?

At least with my own collection the one thing I noticed is that most of my HD movies are for my wife and I where as most of the BR titles I own are for my kids.

CR was a great title as many others but more often then not seeing so many posts prasing Pirates and Cars all I can think of is whether or not I'll purchase them for my nine year old.