Last weekend, I had the chance to play around with a front projector (my wife brought home a projector from work). It wasn't a great one (DELL 2300MP, I think the model number was). It had rather pronounced rainbow effect (I don't usually notice them on RPTVs) but not a bad picture otherwise for a quick setup.

My room's restrictions are such that I cannot accommodate a larger screen than about 50 inches (owing to seating arrangements and room size), so normally my room would not be a front projector candidate. However, it occurs to me that I can get HD projection and a screen for a good price. Is it worth considering, given my small screen and room restriction?

The reason I was considering a projector, is A) there are now some well-reviewed projectors in the 1000$ range with 1280x720 resolution, B) it would allow me to have a larger screen than my 32 inch SDTV, C) would allow me to enjoy better movie image now at a price I could afford and let me delay a new tv purchase (I'd like a 50 inch 1080p plasma from a reputable company, but they are not yet affordable--2 years or so and they will be). If I went the projector route, I would have the screen drop down just in front of the TV (that's why 50 inches is the max size I can accommodate--maybe 55 inches) and I would only use it for movies (SD DVD and perhaps, HD DVD and/or Blu-Ray, though I'll likely wait on those). I would continue to watch TV on the 32 inch as the supply of HD is not yet enough to warrant the cost increase in my cable subscription. Also, it was my impression that a projector at 720p on that small a screen would provide a sharper picture. The room I have is going to be the HT room for a long time (and it is optimized for music playback anyway), so a larger screen really isn't in the cards. I've considered a 50 inch RPTV but everyone I've tried (about six different ones) has the "hourglass" shape for 4:3 movies and I find that annoying. My understanding is the lack of a curved mirror with a front projector would prevent that problem.

Essentially, I'm considering this as a possible intermediate step that will make movie watching more of an "experience" than it is now (on my TV, when I engage the 16:9 mode, I get a very nice, but small, 29 inch widescreen image--I have to believe that a 50 inch image, even if it isn't the "immersive" size that is ideal, would be a step up). The other problem I have solve, should I go this route, is finding a projector that can put up a 46-50 inch image from a short distance, as my primary viewing seat would only be about 7 feet away and the projector would have to be about 5 feet (max) from the screen on a table (a ceiling mount is possible, as I have a support beam right behind the chair overhead that could easily hold the unit--the bottom is about 81 inches from the floor and it would be about 8 feet from the screen. However, from my limited use of projectors in classrooms, I'm not sure I could get a centred picture on a small screen at that height and distance with the projector). I could pull the seat back about 6-10 inches, but that's about as far as I can go.

Wow- you do have some limitations there don't ya? :)

If it were me- I think I would just wait for what you want to come down in price. It seems like you're going through a lot of effort and expense to go from a 29 to 50" display. My first thought was to go for it figuring maybe your room or house may change at some point allowing you to better utilize the big screen possibilities. Then you indicated that this will be your HT room for a long time which brought me to my conclusion.

My $.02 anyway... others will disagree, which is the great thing about this place. :)

Good luck!

A 50" projector screen is obviously very small, and sort of defeats the purpose of owning one. That said, it would certainly be an enormous jump up from a 4:3 32" TV for movies.

I'd probably wait for plasma prices to drop. They're really coming down fast, especially the 50" prices. The Panasonic can be had for well under $2000 now and I've read that that should be closer to $1000 by year's end. That gives you only one screen to deal with, and the 'wow' factor of plasmas is still important. The plasma would be a full time TV too, both for movies and regular TV.

I personally have an LCD TV, (I had a plasma, but it was unwatchable during the day due to glare) and an Optoma Movietime projector. We usually only watch movies on the projector. The all-in-one design allows me to watch it in any room, on vacation, or at friend's homes. It works perfectly for us, especially the portability. But it's not a TV and virtually all of our viewing is done on the LCD.

Jim

Wow- you do have some limitations there don't ya? :)

If it were me- I think I would just wait for what you want to come down in price. It seems like you're going through a lot of effort and expense to go from a 29 to 50" display. My first thought was to go for it figuring maybe your room or house may change at some point allowing you to better utilize the big screen possibilities. Then you indicated that this will be your HT room for a long time which brought me to my conclusion.

My $.02 anyway... others will disagree, which is the great thing about this place. :)

Good luck!I agree there is a bit of effort, but I think I can get the projector and screen for around 1200$, whereas the lowest price I've seen for a 1080p 50 inch plasma is 4300$ (a commercial Panasonic). I can afford the 1200 and get 2-3 years service while waiting on the plasma. But if there are no affordable projectors that can give me the screen size I want within the limitations of the placement options, then waiting for the plasma will be the default position, I guess.

A 50" projector screen is obviously very small, and sort of defeats the purpose of owning one. That said, it would certainly be an enormous jump up from a 4:3 32" TV for movies.

I'd probably wait for plasma prices to drop. They're really coming down fast, especially the 50" prices. The Panasonic can be had for well under $2000 now and I've read that that should be closer to $1000 by year's end. That gives you only one screen to deal with, and the 'wow' factor of plasmas is still important. The plasma would be a full time TV too, both for movies and regular TV. I agree that the 768p plasmas in 50 inches are becoming affordable. It's just that after seeing a 1080p 50 inch advertised in Canada at around 4300 (a commercial model, not consumer), that maybe it would be worth waiting for the plasma a couple of years and go with the intermediate route.

I personally have an LCD TV, (I had a plasma, but it was unwatchable during the day due to glare) and an Optoma Movietime projector. We usually only watch movies on the projector. The all-in-one design allows me to watch it in any room, on vacation, or at friend's homes. It works perfectly for us, especially the portability. But it's not a TV and virtually all of our viewing is done on the LCD.

JimIF I went for a projector, it would only be for movies. I would keep using my current TV for TV watching.

But, again, I'm open to various options and I thought the projector could be one of them. I guess I was wondering if anyone else bothered to use a projector for such a small screen size and how that worked out for them.

too small for me to consider it.

How far away do you sit? (7 feet) How small is your room? Are you SURE you couldn't get an 84-92" screen?

a 50inch screen (IMO) completely defeats the purpose of a projector.

The usable room space is 11.5 feet wide by 15 feet long. Currently, I have my audio setup in as close to ITU (circular) configuration as possible for MCH hi-res audio playback. I have a 32 inch Sony SDTV that is about 2 feet deep, the back of which is about an inch from the wall. The screen is about 6.5 feet from my eyes when I sit in the primary seat. It is flanked by two stand mount speakers that are not that tall, but they are deep (so recessing the TV, or screen too far behind them makes for poor viewing from the couch that is to the right of the chair when facing the screen). I could mount a retractable screen on the ceiling that drops right in front of the TV. The available width is about 60 inches (max). I could move the chair back a foot without having to overly compromise my rear speaker positions (I'd rather not have to move the surrounds every time I switch from audio to movies). I would have to place the projector on a table (which, for comfort's sake, would have to be no more than 5 feet (4.5 would be better) from the screen OR mount the projector on the support beam just above the chair (which puts it at about 8 feet). The bottom of the beam is 81 inches from the ground.

The problem with waiting for the next big thing (In this case, affordable 1080P Plasmas) is that you end up always waiting for the next big thing. I say go for something now, probably a 720P 50" plasma.

Jim

I took a brief glance at the projection calculators on Projector Central for a couple of the popular low end units- the Mits HD1000U and the Epson 400. From a throw distance of 5', the Mits cannot throw an image larger than 43", the Epson could do ~50" if I remember correctly. As you shrink the screen size the fL of the image goes up dramatically. The Epson was putting out something like 70 fL on a 52" screen, the Mits put out what I would guess to be a retina searing 101 fL. :)

You said the available width for the screen was potentially 60" , that would actually give you a 69" diagonal 16:9 image. You didn't say what was imposing that limit, covering the speakers perhaps? I am investigating building an acoustically transparent electric screen with the great info I have gleaned from the DIY screen forum. This will come down in front of my speakers and will afford me a larger image. In the end- I don't think it matters for you with that 5' throw limitation unless there are other projectors out there (I'm sure there are) that will give you a larger image from that close.

I agree with what most are saying. There are a lot of hidden issues with projectors you aren't appreciating. Lamp costs, ambient light issues etc. People put up with all those issues because of screen size increases.

Also, you are getting hung up on 1080p. Forget it exists, on a 50" TV the resolution difference is almost impossible to see for any "normal" material (ie: Broadcast HDTV and HD movies like Blu-ray).

I have done extensive side by side looking at 720 vs 1080 TVs and only in test pattern material or the prototypical "demo discs" like close-up of a static image like a flower can you tell the difference at reasonable viewing differences.

Sell your 32" TV for $300 to a friend and then get an inexpensive (yet still amazing looking) 50" 720p plasma for like $1700. Net cost $1400 and you get everything you want.

Also, for an 11X15ft room perhaps you can comprimise on the locations of your speakers and equipment? I can't really visualize your room from the description, but maybe thinking outside the box will help. It seems odd to think of a room that large as only having a 6ft viewing distance.

Most of the time around here I’m the guy taking the opposite view point from the gang… :o

But I think you have a great idea. :) I would try and maximize your setup you said 50” and then said maybe 55” go as big as you can squeeze in and to a size that doesn’t overpower your seating distance. I would then carefully study your projector choices and their throw distance specs along with the drop height specs. Don’t do the table mount if at all possible IMO. Look at each projectors zoom range and if they have offset etc.

Then the thing to think about is screen and foot Lamberts going so small is going to afford you the benefits of a lot of light on the screen and those lumens can be used to give you plasma like image and lots of tolerance for ambient light without the glare of a plasma glass screen.

Commercial screens are optimized around a larger size and I would suggest a DIY screen. I wont go into all my thoughts on that but if you are interested I have some links listed below in my signature.

My screen is a 120 inch DIY. With a throw length of 14’.
I have a plan though to build an intermediate screen this summer. Around the size you are talking about. The idea will be partly as an experiment to see what I will find out and partly for a screen to watch when just a couple are watching and be able to leave a good amount of ambient light on.

Go back to projector central and try the Hitachi PJTX100. It has a very short throw lens with a fair amount of lens shift. If you could mount it overhead at 7'-- the lens at 6' would give you a 66" diagonal screen. With the lens shift built in, I'm sure you could make it fit.
Right now you can get one for around $600, though that may change-- the rebate ends tomorrow.
Right now I'm sitting 12' from a 92" screen and the projector lens is about 8'5" away. While we use it primarily for movies, right now I'm watching the Yankees and Tigers-- and this is the ONLY way to watch sports! In fact I'm using an old VCR through the composite input from analog cable and the picture is OK.
The other reason to consider going the projector route is the height of the picture.
Right behind our screen is a 51" RPTV. The bottom of the screen is about 2' from the floor. It forces you to look down at the picture-- which isn't good if your sitting in your recliner!
When I bought the TV three years ago I just assumed that front projectors wouldn't work in my situation (light control, etc.)
At least you're asking the question!
My opinion- go for it!
Brian

I definitely don't think it's worth the "hassle" and drawbacks of a front projector setup for just a 50" screen. The cost of a 720P projector and nice screen gets you VERY close to what '06 model Panasonic 60U plasmas are going for, and there are even a few from Samsung(5033 I think) that would be very cost competitive with the projector + screen setup. If a few hundred bucks completely kills the deal for you, then I'd say don't make a move now and save up a bit longer. By Black Friday there should be some smoking deals.

That said, sounds like you are ready to jump into something a little sweeter than your 32" CRT, so I say get a 60U Panasonic and enjoy it. They really are nice sets.


Don't get so caught up in the 1080P hype. While you *might* see a small difference at the 7.5-8 ft viewing distance of a flat panel in your viewing space, I still think the 50" 1080P/768P difference fades at about 6', which is closer than I really want to watch TV. I'd rather sit a more comfortable 8-12' away with a bigger screen. Keep in mind that all current 1080P plasmas have less contrast ratio and higher black levels than 768P plasmas, so you lose some image "pop" for that resolution. I'm just of the opinion that for maybe 3/4 of the viewing spaces of people considering a 1080P set don't lend themselves to seeing any sort of benefit from that much resolution on the tiny panels that the average flat panel buyer is purchasing. 1080P on a 40" set? Please, are you watching with your nose up to the thing? hah


Cliffs Notes - Get a Panasonic 60U now and enjoy. There will always be something bigger and badder a year or two away.

Check out the Toshiba TDP-ET20U - it throws a 100" screen from 3.9 feet away.

That's RIGHT - less than 48" away!

Thanks for all the suggestions. I'll have to do a little geometry homework to see if everything will fit. As for the Panasonic plasma, funny that it should be mentioned, my buddy is buying one tonight. However, on this side of the border, a good price is 2500$ (plus 15% tax) while I can "smuggle" a projector from the US as I work in Vermont once a week and already bring my laptop back and forth. It would be an easy matter to say the gear was for work. And even with the exchange rate, a projector/screen combination at 720p is well under 2500$ CDN, I should think. Things are tightly packed in that room, and a plasma would likely be a simpler solution. But if it can fit AND work out, then I might go with the projector. Who knows? Once I have it, maybe I'll find a way to make it work with a bigger screen.

I agree there is a bit of effort, but I think I can get the projector and screen for around 1200$, whereas the lowest price I've seen for a 1080p 50 inch plasma is 4300$ (a commercial Panasonic). I can afford the 1200 and get 2-3 years service while waiting on the plasma. But if there are no affordable projectors that can give me the screen size I want within the limitations of the placement options, then waiting for the plasma will be the default position, I guess.

Can I ask why you are comparing a 720p projector to a 1080p plasma? Not exactly apples to apples. I love my projector and honestly wouldn't trade it for any plasma except for the panny 103" (assuming someone came and installed it for me) but if you can't go bigger than 50" plasma is definitely the way to go. And you can get a close out panny 60U for about $1500 these days.

Can I ask why you are comparing a 720p projector to a 1080p plasma? Not exactly apples to apples. I love my projector and honestly wouldn't trade it for any plasma except for the panny 103" (assuming someone came and installed it for me) but if you can't go bigger than 50" plasma is definitely the way to go. And you can get a close out panny 60U for about $1500 these days.Not on this side of the border (2500$ CDN or 2100$US--roughly). I'm not comparing the 720p projector to a 1080p plasma directly. It's just that if I'm going to buy a plasma, I thought I'd wait for the 1080p models to be around the 3000, rather than 6000 and up mark and, in the meantime, the projector would be a good interim solution for not too much money.

I've just done some measurements and I can actually accommodate a 65 inch diagonal 16:9 image and mount the projector 8.5 feet away from the screen on the ceiling or 5.5 feet away on a table. Does this make the project more or less feasible, given the other constraints that remain?

With a 65" display, you'll have a very bright image, so you'll be able to use it with ambient light. (you'll still want to darken the room for the best image), but that's going to be true of your flat panel display.
Want to watch movies in the bedroom? Take your projector with you-- try doing that with your flat panel display.
I know that if the quality of projectors were available three years ago when I bought my 51" RPTV, I would have bought a projector. With the bright image these projectors through, you don't need a 'bat cave' to enjoy them.

At 65" now you're talking. A 65" screen is 69% larger than a 50". Plus, while the FP still won't be as bright as the 50" plasma, it will be plenty bright at such a relatively small size image (for a FP.) I have dialed my 112" image down to about 60" on occasions when there was a lot of ambient light in the room and the extra brightness did the trick.

Before I bought a house, I had my projector shooting a 70" image from the coffee table onto a screen I had hung from the fireplace mantle in my apartment. Throw distance was about 6 feet and man was it bright and fabulous. If you can go 65 inches I would say go for it. There's no way I could afford a plasma in that size range but I think I got about 85 percent of the picture quality for 1/4 the price with my small projector setup vs a flat panel of comparable size. When I moved into a house my little 70 inch image was able to become a 92 inch image with only a small investment in a new screen.

Try doing that with a flat panel. Situations change and a projector can change with them to great benefit.

I have a 42 inch plasma and I love it but it's just for TV. I'd never watch a movie on it. It's hard to beat "large" for visceral impact and immersion. If you can make it work with placement and light control, I don't think you'll be disappointed with a decent FP setup. :cool:

65 soiunds MUCH better than 50". Ideally, I'd do my best to stretch that to at least 70". But 65 inches does seem to make this much more worthwhile.

Well, now I'm encouraged to explore this avenue a bit more. Any ideas about where I can find an acoustically transparent screen that's less than 70 inches wide? (the extra width will fit behind the front L/R and leave me with a usable 57-58 inch width [at 57 inches, I get a 65 inch diagonal that fits nicely between the front L/R without constraining the view from the couch, but it does hid my centre channel that sits on top of the TV that will be behind the screen])

Not on this side of the border (2500$ CDN or 2100$US--roughly). I'm not comparing the 720p projector to a 1080p plasma directly. It's just that if I'm going to buy a plasma, I thought I'd wait for the 1080p models to be around the 3000, rather than 6000 and up mark and, in the meantime, the projector would be a good interim solution for not too much money.

Probably early next year you'll see 50" 1080P plasmas around your CDN pricepoint. MSRP on Panasonic's new 50PZ700U is $3500 USD I believe.

A 65" image sounds like FP is starting to be worth it. I still don't agree that a smaller FP setup is near as good in ambient light as a plasma though. The unlit phosphors are MUCH darker than even partially lit grey screen material/color. So your black level isn't going to rise linearly with ambient light. Anti-reflective/glare coatings are also becoming popular if you've got lots of ambient light.

FP sounds like fun though, wish my room wasn't so big, as I'd have one now(18.5' throw or a 9' off centered table top throw doesn't mean many projectors would work).

Probably early next year you'll see 50" 1080P plasmas around your CDN pricepoint. MSRP on Panasonic's new 50PZ700U is $3500 USD I believe.

A 65" image sounds like FP is starting to be worth it. I still don't agree that a smaller FP setup is near as good in ambient light as a plasma though. The unlit phosphors are MUCH darker than even partially lit grey screen material/color. So your black level isn't going to rise linearly with ambient light. Anti-reflective/glare coatings are also becoming popular if you've got lots of ambient light.

FP sounds like fun though, wish my room wasn't so big, as I'd have one now(18.5' throw or a 9' off centered table top throw doesn't mean many projectors would work).

I agree completely with this. The plasma looks great no matter how much light is in the room. The projector, not so much. It's watchable with ambient light but it is a major compromise in image quality. If you have light control issues a PJ is probably not the way to go. Unless you only watch movies at night. :)

RPS13,
Do you mean something like this?
The projector is on a table in front and to the left of the couch. 8.5' distance throws a 92" image. Lens offset allows about 1/4 screen horizontal movement.

Well, now I'm encouraged to explore this avenue a bit more. Any ideas about where I can find an acoustically transparent screen that's less than 70 inches wide? (the extra width will fit behind the front L/R and leave me with a usable 57-58 inch width [at 57 inches, I get a 65 inch diagonal that fits nicely between the front L/R without constraining the view from the couch, but it does hid my centre channel that sits on top of the TV that will be behind the screen])
The screen companies each have AT material that can be used on their various screen products. Draper has their AT1200 material but they state right in their description that it should not be used in screens smaller than 80" wide with DLP and LCD projectors- probably due to the moire effect of the holes in the material. :( Da-Lite has their Audio Vision and Cinema Perf materials that can probably be applied to any of their offerings as well. My guess would be that you will not find any stock AT screens in 16:9 as small as 57" wide or 65" diagonal. Asking them to custom make one that small could be an option but I'd guess the price would be prohibitive if you consider this a temporary solution.

Another option would be to try to pick up a small, inexpensive (perhaps used?) retractable screen and replace the screen material with AT material. There is a wide range of that available from Dazian (cheap, reportedly dull) all the way up to SMXscreen material (great stuff, not so cheap). You can find more info about those materials and options in the DIY screen forum and on the SMXscreen web site. I understand another gent is getting started with AT screens at Seymourav.com. Perhaps calling him might be worthwile as he may have some options in building something for you.

Again though- how much effort and adventure are you prepared for if you consider this temporary?

Since one of your options is table mounting the projector when you use it, I assume this is a pack-it-away proposition when you're finished with it. Perhaps you could look at a portable screen option such as a Da-Lite Instatheater as an option.

I dunno- just throwin out options.... Good luck!

Acoustically transparent seems expensive, no matter which option I consider. I've looked at my speaker placement and I can arrange the centre so I won't need an acoustically transparent screen. I'll probably end up making my own, if go the projector route. As for ambient light, I only have a small basement window that is easily blocked and I do most of my movie watching at night.

Acoustically transparent seems expensive, no matter which option I consider. I've looked at my speaker placement and I can arrange the centre so I won't need an acoustically transparent screen. I'll probably end up making my own, if go the projector route. As for ambient light, I only have a small basement window that is easily blocked and I do most of my movie watching at night.

Get a plasma for this small space. Projector makes little sense with this small screen.

Get a plasma for this small space. Projector makes little sense with this small screen.


That's easy to say if you have $3500 to spend...

A PJ will fill that need and if opportunity arises to expand, you can.

I have my projector setup in a 15 x 9 area with an 80 inch screen. The back 1.5 feet is shelves that the projector is on. I have to push my couch back when I use the projector, but other than that it works out perfectly. If you're willing to adjust your seating position when its movie time your room is plenty big.

-- jaydillyo

when the prices come down on a 65" 1080p lcd you can put the projector in another room or basement or something or for special occasion project it outside and have a nice portable HT

where would you hang the plasma anyway? You cant hang that from the ceiling so it would have to be behind the speakers, therefore you can put the proj screen behind the speakers and get 106" screen.

Another thing to consider with front projectors is that the ceiling and walls should be painted a dark color. White walls will wash out the contrast. Is there room for a rear projection tv?

As much as I love my PJ, I don't think I'd go thru the install, wiring, etc for a 50" screen.

Can you do a digital RP TV? You can get a 46" to 50" Samsung DLP or a Sony LCD for about $1200-$1,400. In a set that size and your seating area I would not even worry about 1080p. Stick to 720p, more then enough.

If you got to hang on a wall, there are some "off brand" LCD & Plasmas worth looking at. Or if you can live with 42" you can get the Panny Plasma in that range.

Last weekend, I had the chance to play around with a front projector (my wife brought home a projector from work). It wasn't a great one (DELL 2300MP, I think the model number was). It had rather pronounced rainbow effect (I don't usually notice them on RPTVs) but not a bad picture otherwise for a quick setup.

My room's restrictions are such that I cannot accommodate a larger screen than about 50 inches (owing to seating arrangements and room size), so normally my room would not be a front projector candidate. However, it occurs to me that I can get HD projection and a screen for a good price. Is it worth considering, given my small screen and room restriction?

The reason I was considering a projector, is A) there are now some well-reviewed projectors in the 1000$ range with 1280x720 resolution, B) it would allow me to have a larger screen than my 32 inch SDTV, C) would allow me to enjoy better movie image now at a price I could afford and let me delay a new tv purchase (I'd like a 50 inch 1080p plasma from a reputable company, but they are not yet affordable--2 years or so and they will be). If I went the projector route, I would have the screen drop down just in front of the TV (that's why 50 inches is the max size I can accommodate--maybe 55 inches) and I would only use it for movies (SD DVD and perhaps, HD DVD and/or Blu-Ray, though I'll likely wait on those). I would continue to watch TV on the 32 inch as the supply of HD is not yet enough to warrant the cost increase in my cable subscription. Also, it was my impression that a projector at 720p on that small a screen would provide a sharper picture. The room I have is going to be the HT room for a long time (and it is optimized for music playback anyway), so a larger screen really isn't in the cards. I've considered a 50 inch RPTV but everyone I've tried (about six different ones) has the "hourglass" shape for 4:3 movies and I find that annoying. My understanding is the lack of a curved mirror with a front projector would prevent that problem.

Essentially, I'm considering this as a possible intermediate step that will make movie watching more of an "experience" than it is now (on my TV, when I engage the 16:9 mode, I get a very nice, but small, 29 inch widescreen image--I have to believe that a 50 inch image, even if it isn't the "immersive" size that is ideal, would be a step up). The other problem I have solve, should I go this route, is finding a projector that can put up a 46-50 inch image from a short distance, as my primary viewing seat would only be about 7 feet away and the projector would have to be about 5 feet (max) from the screen on a table (a ceiling mount is possible, as I have a support beam right behind the chair overhead that could easily hold the unit--the bottom is about 81 inches from the floor and it would be about 8 feet from the screen. However, from my limited use of projectors in classrooms, I'm not sure I could get a centred picture on a small screen at that height and distance with the projector). I could pull the seat back about 6-10 inches, but that's about as far as I can go.

As you can see, this is a very projector biased forum. Some recommend a porjector for any and everybody when a plasma or lcd make much more sense in terms of room size, ambient light etc. Not to mention the requirement for some sort of receiver, speakers, av receiver, wiring etc etc etc. Convenience of operation is also a big consideration if you have folks in your household who can not or will not learn how to control the HT setup. Your situation is much more tilted toward a flat screen of some sort.

Good luck with your decision.

Some good points have been made both for and against (that's why I posted in here, so thanks).

To recap:

After measurements, I can accommodate a 65 inch screen size--not big by projector standards, but a huge step up from 32 inches at 4:3 on a standard TV.

My HT system is already all set up (I have the full 5.1 complement of speakers, the receiver, the dvd player, etc.), so that isn't really an issue.

The room is painted a dark forest green and I have complete light control. So that's not a problem.

In Canada, TV prices are not as proportionally low as they are in the US, so they are less of an advantageous alternative than they might appear in the US.

Conversely, while "sneaking in" a plasma (or any TV) across the border would be impossible (and after all the paperwork hassle, taxes and exchange rate issues, not to mention the fuel cost to the nearest US store that offers decent TVs, the savings would be almost nil), "sneaking in" a projector is a simple matter as I cross the border once a week for work and I always carry my laptop. It would be a simple matter to bring back a projector and have be part of my work gear, so I can take advantage of the great prices on projectors in the US, should there not be any decent prices on projectors in Canada.

No one operates the system if I'm not there. My wife is perfectly content to watch TV and movies on the living room TV (a 27 inch version of my 32 inch TV) and my kids are still years away from operating anything as valuable as an HT system without my supervision.

All that said, I am simply considering different options that will allow me to improve my movie viewing experience at a reasonable cost. I plan to have my wife borrow her work projector again, along with a proper screen this time (I used a makeshift white panel last time) and spend a whole weekend, rather than just a couple of hours, trying it out. This will cost me nothing and will give me a better idea if this is something that is A) feasible and B) that I want to do. Of course, tomorrow I'm going to help out my buddy set up his brand new 50 inch Panasonic plasma and I may come away from that experience (he's the only person I know who owns a plasma and I will be able to play with it as I wish, unencumbered by sales personnel) wanting to go that route instead. Hell, if anyone had asked me just a couple of weeks ago if I was interested in a projector, I would probably have laughed a bit and shrugged it off as impractical for my room. But my wife came home with the projector on a Friday night and asked if I'd like to try it. The setup wasn't ideal as the cable length was too short and I didn't have time to pull my player from the rack entirely (I won't bore you with all the annoyances I faced), so I ended up with a much smaller size than I'd ever consider worthwhile. However, the image was nice and started me thinking that this could be an affordable way to get a bigger screen for movies.

Again, I thank everyone for their points of view and would like to hear more.

Mounted only 6 feet from the screen, a Hitachi PJTX100 Ultravision can give you a 65" screen no problem. Since it is LCD, you can adjust the picture to be just about anywhere you want it. At that screen size and distance, you could have a glowing screen that would blind you even with the lights on.

In my setup, my PJ projects 10.5 feet but I have to roll my entertainment center to one side of the room to have enough room for the screen, 90". I have two floor to ceiling windows in the room that I normally pull the shades down in but from afternoon on, I really don't need to. Below, it is early evening, the NCAA game is on and I guarantee, the picture is at least this bright and could be much brighter - I have the brightness set to -16 on my HD70. The Hitachi is easily 1/5th to 1/10th what a panel would cost you and you still have the ability to set it up elsewhere, should you get the chance. Am I big on FP? Of course, but then I also promised myself I was never going to pay $1,000 or more for a tv. What do you think? At 65", that screen will be glowing!

http://i135.photobucket.com/albums/q139/johnsbin/HD70/ambientLight2.jpg

I just set up a 60 inch by 36 inch dry erase whiteboard and hooked up my wife's (admittedly not great) office projector to see if I could accommodate a projector/screen setup in my small room. The sheer jump in size (and I know a 65 inch diagonal is not all that big, but it's a big jump from my 32 inch CRT SDTV) made SERENITY a much more film-like experience--so I think it's time to find an inexpensive projector. My two candidates, so far, are the Hitachi PJTX100 and the Optoma HD70 (the latter concerns me a bit as it is a DLP and my wife's work projector is one as well--the rainbows were constant). I suspect her office projector is simply not up to the task of home theatre, but it makes me a bit leery of DLP.

Go for it. You won't be disappointed with either projector. I have the Hitachi and love it even though mine seems to have a much louder fan that everyone else's. :( The picture is great and even with a BOC screen it's very tolerant to ambient lighting. The thing would be a torch at the screen size you're talking about.

Good luck!

Well, here's my $.02. Sorry for the long post, but I hope this works.

Go for it! I have a living room (20' x 12.5') and it’s a living room with toys, pictures of the family, the dog and people walking around when we have parties, etc. This is no home theater, but I love it more because I use all the time and every single day. And when the kid goes to sleep, I lower the lights, snuggle with the wife and watch a movie on a great setup.

I have an Optoma HD70 ceiling mounted set at 10.5' with an 80" 16:9 homemade screen using a paint formula found here (cost me about $75 to make). I wanted a TV in my living room not just a projector to watch movies, so I decided on getting the HD70 making a smaller then normal screen size so that I could have the lights on (and a decent amount of ambient light coming in the windows) while the kid is playing on the carpet and close enough to the wall so that people can get up and move around without walking in front of the projector. My main couch is set at 15' back from the screen.

This is my TV! My wife works from home, the kid is still young (doesn't go to school) and grandpa watches the kid during the day. I am one of those parents that think TV is a good thing. The projector goes on at 7am and goes off about 10 at night. Since I installed my projector in November '06, I have clocked about 2200 hours...that's about 14 hours a day!

Front:

http://img411.imageshack.us/img411/1138/frontscreen800un6.th.jpg (http://img411.imageshack.us/my.php?image=frontscreen800un6.jpg)

Side:

http://img267.imageshack.us/img267/180/sidescreen800oa3.th.jpg (http://img267.imageshack.us/my.php?image=sidescreen800oa3.jpg)

Bugs! Rain Forest Sample from Discovery HD (DirecTV):

http://img183.imageshack.us/img183/8076/bugs2of6lights800pd5.th.jpg (http://img183.imageshack.us/my.php?image=bugs2of6lights800pd5.jpg)

Ovation:
I am doing a project somewhat similar to you. MIts HD1000u which will be ceiling mounted at ~8.5' throwing a 70' image. My 2 cents for you is: do it. At this distance you'll get a good bright image as mentioned, you can run the PJ in low lamp mode, extending the life to 3000 hours...your challenge as I have found will be (1) the screen. Not too many available fixed wall mounts under 77" (of course as soon as I say this a dozen posters will correct me :D ) so I'm doing the DIY route for the screen....a white wall will work but the wife wants a finished look and a DIY grey screen will improve your pic quality to a degree....I had Michaels build a 70" 16x9 screen for me with a low cost aluminum black frame with 2 sections of white foam board (<$100 total...I'm a lazy, lazy man :D ) ....I plan to get a 4x8' sheet of FPR from Lowes & paint it with Sherman Williams Grey Screen (http://www.sherwin-williams.com/pro/paint_colors/paint_color_trends/2006/fifth_avenue.jsp) matte. (2) Mounting....you can get a decent celing mount from http://www.mountdirect.com/Mitsubishi_HD1000U_Projector_Mount_s/1430.htm but remember low cost DLP PJ's wont have much in the way of lens shift so to avoid major digital keystone correction, you may have to drop it with a pole several inches depending on your setup. LCD's in this price range can be more flexible however.
One last item: Best Buys 30 day return policy is a beautiful thing for trying out such experiments on, say HD70 PJ's... ;)

To recap:



I'd like to chime in here - I have a projector with an 84" screen as my only TV.

At first, my thoughts was "bad idea", but at 65" inches it really starts to become interesting. Considering that it doesn't seem to be a problem to you that you would have to dim the lights to get a good picture, I truly belive that if you do this install properly, you're never going to buy that 50" 1080P plasma that you're dreaming of. You're much more likely to upgrade the projector instead... In a lot of areas, a projector setup will simply give you a superior image. Even at only 720P, and with a larger screen size, the overall picture quality - at least with the lights off - will be better than a plasma, in my opinion. With such a small screen size, I'd do something like this: Get a really dark grey screen, and a projector that's capable of pretty high light output - the HD1000 would certainly be a possibility. The dark surface will REALLY help the picture quality with moderate light in the room, and with a small image size, a fairly high power projector can still create bright images. This is a much better route than blazing out as much light as possible, as a white screen will just reflect the room lighting as well.

Basically: Definately go for it! Have fun, and if after say six months, you're getting tired of turning off the lights - you can tell yourself "oh well, I had fun, and now my 50" plasma has decreased in price anyway", and as others mentioned, then you still have the projector to play with on Superbowl night. So it probably won't cost you much. A cheap plasma as a temporary solution, will always just be "a step along the way", it won't give you the same enjoyment - it's money down the drain, considering you're going to replace it relatively soon.

Basically: Definately go for it! Have fun, and if after say six months, you're getting tired of turning off the lights - you can tell yourself "oh well, I had fun, and now my 50" plasma has decreased in price anyway

YES! Exactly right! You can't lose.

To help with what Otto said. I have an 80" for just the reason he mentioned. I wanted a projector that I could use during the day, I have 6 can lights and they all can be on, and I still get a good picture. Direct sunlight does hurt my picture, but ambient light no problem. And with that said I also "calibrated" more like adjusted my total picture in bright mode to accomidate lots of light in the room.

So, I have two settings. Normal and Bright. I hardly ever use Bright mode. But it does come in handy when I do get sunlight coming directly in my living during the winter months.

Thanks for all the tips and encouragement. I think the white board will be my screen, at least initially, as it is exactly the size I want and the picture looked pretty good. If reflection becomes a problem, I expect I can spray paint it (either with a dull white or maybe a gray). Makes me want to place the order today, but I think I'll wait to see what my tax return looks like.

As for using it as a TV, I might do that when I make the move to HD cable, but the offerings on my side of the border in HD are not quite yet sufficient to justify the extra cost. I'll likelier get an HD DVD and/or Blu-Ray first (though even that won't be for some time as the discs are quite expensive in Canada and rental stores don't have many in stock).

You could roll some paint (similar to Behr Silverscreen) on the whitboard or pull some Black Out Cloth around the board as well. I think you are going to get some severe hotspotting from the board as is!

I think the cloth idea is better, as my paint rolling skills are marginal, at best. :D

I've just done some measurements and I can actually accommodate a 65 inch diagonal 16:9 image and mount the projector 8.5 feet away from the screen on the ceiling or 5.5 feet away on a table. Does this make the project more or less feasible, given the other constraints that remain?
If you can mount a projector 8.5 feet from a screen, you should be able to get a bigger picture than 65" diagonal with the shortest-throw models. I have my screen 9 feet from the projector lens, and I get a 92" diagonal (80"x45" 16:9) picture. This is with a Toshiba TDP-MT700/Benq PE7700 720p DLP, but there should be LCD projectors like maybe Epson or Panasonic models that can give you a comparable picture size. Even the 60" width will be a nice size in your room, though, and it does make a projector worthwhile, in my opinion.

That's easy to say if you have $3500 to spend...

A PJ will fill that need and if opportunity arises to expand, you can.


I agree.... <$1k for a quality 720p & plenty bright for *modest* ambient light viewing on <70" - bulb warranty "just in case".......

I'm in a 11.5x11.5 room w/ a DV10 - wanting to upgrade, just saving the scratch...

I usually throw 64" (could go more, but overkill & only 480) - SS painted wall - could never go back to <42" and (even a year ago) paid less than most 42" today.....

Will try to take & post some screen shots this weekend....funny, have had this for almost a year & never taken screen a shot ....
Saving for the Hitachi & will use the DV10 for drive in movies & portability factor. Have a small gessoed premade canvas (30x40 - will give me 46" diag) I can use in bedroom/loft/living room - still "larger" than that 42" :rolleyes:
Will go to approx 80" with the Hitachi......

I have an AE300 (ancient now I know) projecting on an 80" Hi-Power Da-Lite screen. I got it because it would be my only TV and I wanted something bright and punchy. It hasn't disappointed, even after 4.5 years, 3000+ hours and a faded bulb. I say go for it.

But seriously look into a pull-down, commercial screen. The Da-lites are pretty cheap... maybe $150 to $200 and they can be custom cut to the exact size you need. The quality will be light years better than a dry erase board and the installation will look a heck of a lot prettier.

Here are some before and after pictures in my setup. I for one hate walking into a room and having a monster TV be the first thing I see. Using a projector allowed us to have a nice presentable living room during the day, while still having a kick ass movie experience at night.

Screen Retracted

http://ecosystem.sage.wisc.edu/~johnston/pictures/L300u/Before.jpg


Movie Time!

http://ecosystem.sage.wisc.edu/~johnston/pictures/L300u/After.jpg


By the way, the lights are that dark for photo reasons. We can watch with a reasonable amount of ambient light and still have a great picture. Don't let light shine directly on the screen and you should be ok.

Enjoy and welcome to front projection. You'll be figuring out how to knock down walls so you can go up to a 120" screen in no time :D
-Matt

If you can mount a projector 8.5 feet from a screen, you should be able to get a bigger picture than 65" diagonal with the shortest-throw models. I have my screen 9 feet from the projector lens, and I get a 92" diagonal (80"x45" 16:9) picture. This is with a Toshiba TDP-MT700/Benq PE7700 720p DLP, but there should be LCD projectors like maybe Epson or Panasonic models that can give you a comparable picture size. Even the 60" width will be a nice size in your room, though, and it does make a projector worthwhile, in my opinion.
I know I could get a bigger picture, but I have other constraints.

One--I place the screen in front of my 32 inch (rather big and heavy) CRT SDTV because I want to use the screen only for movies (and the occasional playoff hockey game, if my team makes it).

Two--I have my speakers in an approximate ITU configuration (geared for MCH hi-res audio playback) and the "approx" is already a compromise. I don't want to compromise that further.

Three--the board is free and fits nicely in the available space (when I get a projector, I will be using, in 16:9, 57x32 of the 60x36 surface (maybe a bit more) and placing some sort of black felt/cloth to hide the rest. I want to try it as is with whatever projector I get and if I need to paint/cover the board with something, I'll do so).

What I like about the projector option, as I consider it more and more, is the flexibility it offers for the future. When HD programming is sufficiently diverse to make the cost worth it in my area, I will spring for an HD DVR and the HD package. At that point, I will move my TV into the kid's play area (there is a 20 year old 19 inch TV in there now--they'll appreciate the upgrade) and that will give me the back wall (currently two feet behind where I place the screen) and, thus, a bigger screen in hi-def, with whatever projector I get soon, and its eventual replacement (as I can't see how a decent 1080p plasma or LCD flat panel with an 80 inch diagonal screen--about what my wall can give me--will be less expensive than a 1080p projector).

I have an AE300 (ancient now I know) projecting on an 80" Hi-Power Da-Lite screen. I got it because it would be my only TV and I wanted something bright and punchy. It hasn't disappointed, even after 4.5 years, 3000+ hours and a faded bulb. I say go for it.

But seriously look into a pull-down, commercial screen. The Da-lites are pretty cheap... maybe $150 to $200 and they can be custom cut to the exact size you need. The quality will be light years better than a dry erase board and the installation will look a heck of a lot prettier.

Here are some before and after pictures in my setup. I for one hate walking into a room and having a monster TV be the first thing I see. Using a projector allowed us to have a nice presentable living room during the day, while still having a kick ass movie experience at night.

Screen Retracted

http://ecosystem.sage.wisc.edu/~johnston/pictures/L300u/Before.jpg


Movie Time!

http://ecosystem.sage.wisc.edu/~johnston/pictures/L300u/After.jpg


By the way, the lights are that dark for photo reasons. We can watch with a reasonable amount of ambient light and still have a great picture. Don't let light shine directly on the screen and you should be ok.

Enjoy and welcome to front projection. You'll be figuring out how to knock down walls so you can go up to a 120" screen in no time :D
-Matt
That's a very nice setup you have. If it were my living room, I too would not want the "monster TV" effect, but my room is dedicated to music listening (usually MCH hi-res) and TV/Movie watching. The commercial screen (pulldown or fixed) is something I will likely move to when I decide to move my TV out of there (as I noted in an earlier post), but, for now, the goal is a bigger screen (65 inch 16:9 is a fair jump up from 32 inch 4:3) for little money (hence my leaning toward the Hitachi--an admittedly older tech, but apparently still a good performer). I figure if the board is not sufficient (though I have found it pretty good so far, even with a sub par projector in a "swift and dirty" setup), I can cover it with some material (it appears that blackout cloth is popular and reasonably efficient) for the short to medium term. As for the 120" screen, when the kids don't need a playroom that looks like the stock room for Toys R Us, I can move the HT into the larger of the two rooms in the basement where there is ample room for a LARGE screen. :D

Ovation-
If you live on the west coast, try 'Doable' board. It's $15 at Home Depot and is highly recommended over on the DIY screen section.

I live just outside of Montreal, in Quebec, so that's not an option. I'm willing to live with board I have now (part of the charm of the board is that it is free and so my wife is more amenable--she earns the big bucks, I'm the stay at home parent with a modest part-time income--to springing for a projector. Once she's watched some films on the "big screen", she'll probably want the upgrade. She, who wouldn't care if we only had the old 19 inch that's in the kid's playroom, found the short clip from Serenity I had on the other night impressive enough to encourage this plan--so one step at a time ;) ).

I'd get the projector. Super flexible and if your situation ever changes all you need is a bigger screen...

I haven't posted in a while, but wanted to chime in on this topic. I can't recommend a projector enough for you. I for one don't like the idea of having a big, expensive, heavy TV. Even Plasma is just not as convenient as havinga small projector you can carry around or light screen that can be rolled up when needed.


Admittedly best way is to hang the projector out of the way. But it is super flexible. And you can always go larger when the need arises or your situation changes. Try moving the giant 65" plasma without giving yourself a heart attack(I am a bit of a clutz)


I tell you even cheap projectors throw a great image.


I second the mention of buying a cheap screen. I bought a 103" Da-Lite screen for like 40 bucks from Provantage and that was like 3 years ago. Might be the same screen shown in the picture above.

Hi Ovation,

Regarding your pj selection, if rainbows 'jump out at you' when watching your wife's borrowed business projector ( probably 2x colour wheel ) there's a chance you'll even see them on higher speed wheel HT models.

I have an HD1000, and although they don't bother me, I can see them frequently in bright / white scenes. I don't think I'm particularly rainbow sensitive, but the brightness of the HD1000 contributes I think. If they do bother you, and you can't preview a HD70 / HD1000 in your home, you're probably better going the LCD route.

I've seen the Hitachi TX100 a number of times, and it has a good looking pic. It can be had for a great price south of the border ( if you plan on brining it across ). For just a little more, you can get the Sanyo Z5. The Z5 is a current generation PJ, where the TX100 is a couple of generations old now. The Z5 has a very wide zoom and lens shift range, making it very flexible for positioning. You could probably get away with mounting it on a shelf on your back wall and using the minimum (narrow) zoom. It's light output and good blacks would seem to match your requirements well. The Z5 can also be had for a very good price up here in Canada, and that would give you the advantage of a Canadian warranty.

Hope this helps,

Jonathan

Hi Ovation,

Regarding your pj selection, if rainbows 'jump out at you' when watching your wife's borrowed business projector ( probably 2x colour wheel ) there's a chance you'll even see them on higher speed wheel HT models.It is a 2x colour. Moreover, my wife sees them as well. Finally, the placement issues preclude a projector without lens shift, so an LCD projector is the only option.


I've seen the Hitachi TX100 a number of times, and it has a good looking pic. It can be had for a great price south of the border ( if you plan on brining it across ). For just a little more, you can get the Sanyo Z5. The Z5 is a current generation PJ, where the TX100 is a couple of generations old now. The Z5 has a very wide zoom and lens shift range, making it very flexible for positioning. You could probably get away with mounting it on a shelf on your back wall and using the minimum (narrow) zoom. It's light output and good blacks would seem to match your requirements well. The Z5 can also be had for a very good price up here in Canada, and that would give you the advantage of a Canadian warranty.

Hope this helps,

JonathanIt seems the Z5 is the only projector where any price difference between the US and Canada is strictly limited to the exchange rate (and, in several places, it is cheaper in Canadian dollars than in US dollars in the US). However, it remains just shy of double what the Hitachi is going for in the US, even after conversion. I can't buy right away, though, so the Hitachi might sell out before I make my move (just got a nasty surprise from the tax man--my situation is complicated because I work in the US and live in Canada), so the Z5 may be what I get in the end. I'm still excited by the projector option, but it appears it will be a bit later than I'd anticipated.

A small distance and small screen can indeed work, how well might take some experimenting. I use an older Sayett Mediashow XC projector here in the bedroom which was once a professional LCD job I'm not looking for anything fancy for this, just something of the big screen experience in the bedroom. Since it was designed to be a pro projector it also means it is rather bright for this type of room I use a throw distance of just under 9 feet for 63 inches running across the room. Whatever its claimed brightness of my particular unit is supposed to be I have no idea but in direct comparison to a Sony I investigated at Best Buy they had going in one of the Magnolia rooms I'd guess it is at least twice as bright as that. This is from a dresser top (where I've got my surround sound, laserdisc, DVD and TV tuner) which can't be mounted perfectly flush with the wall, so with cords and cables behind the projector it is just under 9 feet. The 63 inch figure is arrived at due to a staircase that drops down through one corner of the room being the farthest right I can go, the left limit being the edge of the dresser which can't block a closet in the corner. Biggest concern I see here is making sure things don't look overly washed out from the brightness you'd encounter at those distances, so brightness settings and screen material would be my concern. I know in my particular setup the walls are an off almond color (not idea), and the projector is bright enough to put a rather useable image if the room is lit from overhead with a 100W bulb. I had a DaLite screen which proved to look too bright and eventually devised my own stretching a not too thick white sheet over a black painted board. There are probably other solutions, but for my cheapy bedroom setup right now I'm about 5 feet away from a 63 inch screen watching a movie so you do get a good feeling of the big screen experience.

FYI my particular projector can supposedly throw an image as small as 42 inches. So of course I had to try this and yea it will, but while the picture holds together quite well from a resolution standpoint its comparable to staring at the sun. I tried so merely out of curiousity.

So I'm not gonna pick sides but plasma/LCD was impractical here in this room, I got a cheap projector and after a little tweaking it doesn't look bad for the purpose.